Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 134 - ACOK Catelyn VI

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

Once again, Catelyn must wait while men go to war. But this time, she's not alone. She's joined by Brienne, and they discuss the various battles different people face as Catelyn contemplates duty. Links mentioned: ManaroGeek TV - Manaro's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ManaroGeekTV/videos ---   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, reading A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 134, Catelyn Six in A Clash of Kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. The penultimate chapter. It is, it is, and it is a packed chapter and actually includes one of my favorite cat scenes. That also happens to be one of my favorite Brienne scenes. I love that exchange between them in this chapter. I think it's so great for both of them.

Yeah, I honestly really forgot kind of the intimate relationship they form in Clash. Yeah. Right before the old sending off. Sending off on the trip down the river. Down the river. down the river, which I'm down the river run. I'm honestly more excited for the next chapter. I love this chapter and I'm excited to talk about it with you,

but next week, next week we have a treat for you all. Yes. So part of why Chloe is very excited for the next chapter, not only is it, you know, a very good chapter, right? We get to revisit Jamie Lannister, but we are also going to visit, have a visit. We are having our friend Minero from Minero Geek TV on YouTube on. I'm so excited. Minero always has us over to her YouTube channel to wear red lipstick and get drunk and talk about ridiculous things.

her youtube channel to wear red lipstick and get drunk and talk about ridiculous things so we're excited because this chapter is kind of kind of the summation of all that right the seventh cat chapter is basically just like getting really blasted on bad wine in the dungeons only one of them's getting blasted but yeah that's true yeah and one of them stinks too and that'll be you know minero yeah right absolutely and are we the prisoners maybe maybe we're the prisoners in our own podcast and nonetheless we will leave a link you've got to check out minero's youtube channel just she covers everything with so many people different shows that are on tv always having great roundtable discussions and it's it's a great youtube channel it's really a nice like homey youtube channel i like to i like to just watch stuff on there yeah and i'm just part of why i'm so excited that minero said that one of the

characters that she would love to join us for was cat uh is because my first introduction to Monero was finding her live streaming a discussion about Cat along with T-Baby. And I think it was specifically about the parlay over at Storm's End. So I thought, what a perfect way for her to join us. And Monero did do a great series on House Lannister a bit ago that was just really

really good really feels significant for this chapter and you know i will say i know minero is a little bit more in the middle um when it comes to cat's character i think we'll get a really good analysis from minero on kind of her thoughts and what she feels about catelyn's motives absolutely i'm super jazzed to have Minera on. But, you know, if you don't just want to listen to us talk about A Song of Ice and Fire, we're also doing another thing that's kind of different, kind of special this month.

Yeah, we have a special Patreon episode, which, of course, if you are in the stranger tier or above on patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon, you will get access to bonus episodes every month normally we do a song of ice and fire episodes every other month and his dark materials episodes every other other month for patrons but this month there's a very special event someone was born this month that i know and we are doing a special book that that someone might like called ella enchanted and you know what turns out that person is also chloe chloe did you know you were born in august

i was not that isn't that's not the lore who are you it's the other don't lie to them they know we're both born i feel like everyone would be able to know who was actually like yeah everyone should know who's which fire sign by now let's be real you're way more a leo than i am why do we have more about i digress but yeah oh wait that's lore too shit that is lore oh my god ella enchanted which more like elianachanted is what we're gonna call it this month, but, you know, I did reread it last week, and I will say

Prince Char? C-H? C-H? Chloe? Char? It's close. I'm Prince Char. Char? Nope. I was gonna try and combine your names and then Charmander. It ended up as just Charlie and I was like, that's stupid. Less fun i was like i did well this book is definitely a book that both of us grew up reading it has a strong heroine you know running around saving

the day or saving herself which is also very exciting i really respect that uh i will say i'm gonna bring some bridgerton too, when we talk about this book. Yeah. And I might watch the movie this weekend just to, you know, get a feel for how much was different again. Because last time I watched the movie was, like, when it came out, probably as a kid. Yeah, I, again, refused to watch it.

I was like, that seems like a whole ass mess you know you know how my uh history with um cinematic adaptations of books being on this you know podcast here that um i'm sorry i i don't even know what i'm talking about because we're talking about books that adapted a television show so don't listen to me um but well we will have that episode out sometime this month for patrons by the end of august by the end of uh of the good old season of eliana so the month of eliana so keep an eye out for that and we will be doing discord brunch and happy hour this month as well we are going to be doing that on saturday august 28th so keep an eye out for more information if you're a patron in the Thunder tier and above.

That will be coming your way soon. We have yet to figure out our theme and we will shoot that as soon as we know. Other things are, while we do not have a His Dark Materials Patreon episode this month, we will still have our regularly scheduled His Dark Materials episode at the end of August.

We are on the Amber Spyglass, so just keep an ear out for that absolutely well before we run into this episode we did get an email earlier and i was i was very enthralled by this email we got an email from our friend kathy who rescued cat i'm so sorry i just misread this email. Hold on. She rescued a cat. Wrong cat. Oh, never mind. Disregard. I'm just kidding. I did read the email.

I knew it was an actual cat. We knew. We knew. She rescued a cat. Yeah. And it's so cute. She sent us some little pictures. You know, the cat, Luna, had a few, has to kind of get her life together a little, which

I get. I'm getting my life together every day so luna you go off kitten but we will hopefully get some pictures of this adorable rescue cat to share with you all on our social media over at uh you can find us girls gone canon on twitter c-a-n-o-n maybe we'll post it on patreon you never know yeah so thank you so much kathy kathy rescuing a cat see yeah i know there's there's a lot going on here was not lost on me yeah thank you kathy for not only sending us pictures of luna but also being very on theme with the chapters that we are on uh no these pictures are fantastic i also love the choice of the name Luna, you know, because, of course, cats named Luna have special places in my heart, also in Chloe's heart, because of Sailor Moon.

Moon prism power, bitch. Yeah. Well, we're going to talk about different kind of moons soon in our lightning round. The moon of Khal Drogo's life, and by that I mean he's dead. Daenerys III, Zaros Zoandoxis, does not want to help Daenerys. That much

is becoming clear. She turns to the Undying in hopes of support. That is wild that it is just Daenerys III and we're on Cat 6. Yeah, it's really paced very slowly isn't it so interesting uh interestingly enough we do get right around this actual house of the undying next time so I'm kind of I think it picks up the speed toward the mid-end of the book for her yeah

yeah that's just interesting because also alongside is Tyrion nine princess Myrcella's farewell turns into a riot Davosos 2. Davos must assist the Lady Melisandre in a much quieter warcraft than he's used to. Jon 5. One blast signals brothers returning, and Corrin Halfhand and his 100 men come with news of Mance Rayder's army. Tyrion 10. Tyrion tries to hire his already hired girlfriend who for some reason wildly unbeknownst to tyrian is offended at this he hears of the witchcraft stanis's camp is performing and hopes to kill his sister someday with witchcraft of his own very deep down within these are all deep hidden thoughts of tyrians you know yeah instead he gets her diarrhea for now typical younger sibling pranks allegedly

that i've heard um catelyn six although victories are on the rise catelyn's mood is bitter mournful full of regret and confusion and this is just the penultimate Clash chapter. It is. We open up with a passage from a scrawl of paper. Tell father I've gone to make him proud. Her brother swung up into his saddle, every inch the lord in his bright mail and flowing mud and water cloak. A silver trout ornamented the crest of his great helm, twin to the one painted on his shield. He was always proud of you, Edmure, and he loves you fiercely. Believe that. I mean to give him better reason than mere birth. Edmure wheels off, trumpets are sounding, drums booming, and the

drawbridge falls. He leads his men out of Riverrun, and Catelyn thinks, I have a greater host than yours, brother. A host of doubts and fears. As always, I love the chapter openings just in general, and looking at this, Edmure has this very interesting complex where he somehow still feels like he's never been able to live up to his father's expectations. Perhaps that's due to the lack of marriage and also the lack of a track record when it comes to battles but i would also say that there really hasn't been much opportunity for edmure to prove himself in that way because like the way that the songs say that men should write like in battle because for most of edmure's adulthood until now like it's been pretty it's been relatively

peaceful in westeros. I mean, there was a Greyjoy rebellion, but he was probably very, very young then still. And in the context of later this chapter, so we see Catelyn here musing on having always done her duty. And then right after Edmure's leaving, she has these bitter thoughts, right, of watching her brother head off to battle. And I kind of wonder if there's more to Catelyn telling her brother that Hoster has always been proud of him, especially when Edmure says that he wants Hoster to be proud of him for more than, like, mere birth. So when Catelyn's telling Edmure that, like, father's always been proud, I think we can read into it, like, obviously she's just kind of reassuring him as an older sister,

right? But there's that undertone of bitterness because of those thoughts afterwards. And I wonder if there's a bitterness because Hoster was always proud of Edmure implicitly, just for having been born, and the fact that he was a son, right, after his first two sons died. And thanks to Edmure just being born, his mere birth, Hoster's seat in the family line were then secure. And, you know, he succeeded in finally getting himself another heir, thanks to Edmure. And unlike how Tyrion has all this baggage hanging over his head

from Joanna dying while giving birth to Tyrion, Edmure doesn't have that as much, because his mother didn't die giving birth to Tyrion Enyr doesn't have that as much because his mother didn't die giving birth to him and while Enyr was born with that pride implicitly Catelyn on the other hand has constantly had

to do her duty in order to feel worthy of Hoster's pride more and more responsibility keeps falling on her shoulders as she suddenly gets thrust into the eldest child's role and then lady of the house and then has to like do all these things right to hold her house together and then later on you know be the glue for a military alliance and then also suffer humiliation within that marriage alliance yeah and it is kind of a a bit of a

bummer too because some of that pride and how Edmure is trying to prove himself as you outlined, it does get highlighted in the fact that it feels right now like his war tactics are working and he's winning and Catelyn's trying to be like, you know, maybe I'll set it aside and just let him have his day. have his day but in the end they really don't uh and it's kind of a real bummer we'll get to that hollow kind of feeling at the end of the chapter and for now before we go to that hollow feeling i do want to praise him because there's this really strong recurring thread right now in the mid end of clash this is one of the strongest beats of it that the small folk are a recurring applause in river run they're like a track in the background, cheering them, shouting them. They're very present. They're very seen in the yards in these chapters. A really great choice to bring them inside the walls,

first of all. So good job, Edmure, on that. But it's strongly paralleled with the chapters around it. Right before this, in Tyrion's chapter, we have him begrudgingly pledging to save those insufferable, awful, monstrous people that hate him. After this, we have Bran immediately yielding Winterfell, remembering to himself that a good lord protects his people no matter what.

And in two chapters from now, we have the Arya chapter, right, where she yearns to free the Northmen for the cause in Harrenhal and try to save these men that are captive. I think that's such a strong beat right now in this part of clash of war and keeping people safe. Yeah. Yeah, and Catelyn does admire

that in Ednir, but she doesn't, I guess because, it's interesting, she's not raised to, I guess, have that. She's more worried about her immediate family than she is about saving the small folk. Yeah, it's not her job to worry about them right now yeah good on that never had to well i guess she could have but like thankfully you know i guess edmure was born so yeah thank god actually thank thank god

for edmure anyway brienne is miserable though as well catelyn had attempted to dress her but uh brienne obviously wants nothing of these like fine garments right she prefers to wear her mail and boiled leather and catelyn knows that i guess brienne would probably be happier at war with edmure uh but you know what river run requires some strong swords to protect those staying behind, okay? Yeah, there's actually this line that stood out on reread so hard for two reasons. Even walls as strong as Riverrun's require swords to hold them. What happens in, like, the next chapter? Winterfell?

Yeah. There are no swords there to hold Winterfell. Winterfell falls, and then, not just that, but in a feast for crows river run falls it's some pretty strong foreshadowing to come there in that one line and the other thing that really stood out on this read here is that catelyn dresses brienne in garments that are not fitted well to brienne to her tastes right and Jaime who's a knight later on in the story and in his plot fits her with clothing that you know actually fits her mostly because he knows what she would want as a fighter as a soldier as a knight and I think that's really interesting that Catelyn does not this is just one of those moments Catalin does not understand Brienne's dreams and hopes and wants yeah yeah absolutely and I think that's part of what's so interesting

about their interactions is they try to understand one another yeah they try to mesh but it's two different worlds they're coming from yeah Catalin's reaction to that hole she's been put in versus brienne's reaction though there's clearly a respect there but it's it i think that's that's what is so great that's one of the things that i again i love this chapter i guess i say that about most calvin chapters so that's not really fair that doesn't mean anything anymore anyway i mean they're all great chapters even in this one i will say like i'm gonna i going to get on Kat's case for a couple things this chapter. You know, got to be the fair, the mean cop here. But.

I mean, I get on her case for a couple of things, too. And you know what? Yeah. I mean, that's part of it, right? Yeah. That doesn't mean she's not a good character. She's a great character. That's part of what makes her such a good character.

Part of it. Yeah. Absolutely. The able-bodied men have been taken for the fords they're all protecting the fords and kind of giving the lannisters the run around and desmond grell was planning to hold river run but the garrison of wounded old sick is well as some squires and peasant boys so not looking good again again with that foreshadowing if you only have wounded old sick and squires and peasant boys you really can't hold a castle.

Yeah, I think Daenerys is the only one who ever really got away with that, and that's because she had three dragons. Brienne asked, what shall we do now, my lady? Our duty. Catelyn's face was drawn as she started across the yard. I have always done my duty, she thought. she started across the yard. I have always done my duty, she thought. Perhaps that was why her Lord Father had always cherished her, best of all his children. Her two older brothers had both died in infancy, so she had been son as well as daughter to Lord Hoster until Edmure was born. Then her mother died and her father told her she must be Lady of Riverrun now. And she had done

that, too. And when Lord Hoster promised her to Brandon Stark, she thanked him for making her such a splendid match. I gave Brandon my favor to wear, never comforted Peter once he was wounded, nor bid him farewell when father sent him off. And when Brandon was murdered and father told me I must wed his brother, I did so, gladly. Though I never saw Ned's face till our wedding day, I gave my maidenhood to this solemn stranger and sent him off to war and his king and the woman who bore him his bastard. Because I always did my duty.

So again, Brienne may be a big part in this chapter but also interestingly you know Catelyn's here thinking about how she's thrust into a position of being the son right and then later on lady of the house just like Brienne also had to be that now kind of

as the only child and lady of Tarth as well as taking on the air role. Yeah. And again, to quote the great manimals, the band, not enough daughter, not enough son. That is something that those two can bond on together. Absolutely. I don't personally love them, but I do love seeing the doubts that George is having having seeped into catalan's thoughts exuding throughout all of this she's she's kind of starting to swim in her self

pity in this chapter and and obviously by storm we know that she's kind of drowning in it not swimming in it and good for her because life sucks and i do this from time to time but uh it starts to be obvious that she wants others to be miserable like her. Not in a totality like you should be miserable, but she just doesn't want to let the people she has left go because then she'll be completely miserable. And this monologue really highlights a lot of that repression of those true emotions. Some of those things, no one ever wanted to question

what those emotions were or value them. Why would you value the emotions of what a woman who is being used as coin during wars feels about it? That's not what you're paying for. You're paying for swords. And that's what's manifested right into that Stoneheart persona. It's kind of what turns her to have this cold fire in her. It's not the same as Cersei's burning wildfire and her cruelness right her cruelty but Catelyn does begin to negotiate throughout this desperation because of her inability to do anything and I don't want to

be uncharitable to her because if I were in the same position I would obviously do anything to get my children kidnapped by the enemy back and we'll get into that more in the next chapter with Monero, why we see her, you know, freak the fuck out in her Riverrun sex dungeon event with Jamie Lannister. It's like Jekyll Hyde style for a minute. She's like, I hate you. I love you. Give me my kids back, please.

Holy shit. And I don't know. It's that on and off again of Peter being engaged, being not engaged, being engaged again, being not engaged again, then being a mother, also not being a mother. There's so much weighing on her mind that's significantly highlighted in this chapter, and it carries on to that next chapter perfectly. That craving for vengeance, to lash out and do something to these people that have wronged her for decades. And the system that has wronged her, it's so tied to the history that she's tried to block out and forget. And in the next chapter, when Jamie confronts her with the real truth of most of these horrific events, it's kind of a horrible time.

Like, this is all compartmentalized stuff that just comes rushing out. Absolutely. Yeah. Kat is not having a good time this is a time in the books when actually maybe no one's having a good time soon but you know i as you're saying it's a perfect lead-in to the next chapter and i think what you've called out here of like this is it this is the foundation for lady stoneheart is interesting because i think i'm finding on this reread as you as you point these out that you know we're always i feel like there's a sentiment that catelyn is different from lady stoneheart i mean of course

right like in the way that like you and i right as we've said we're different people than we were like in the past. But obviously, like, people mean that much more exaggeratedly when it comes to Catelyn and Lady Stoneheart, that Lady Stoneheart is missing something of Catelyn's. But more and more, I'm starting to question like, is Lady Stoneheart really truly that different from the Catelyn whose chapters we get? And I think what you've said here, and also some of the stuff that our friend Alex has brought up in their emails is, you know, part of making me really reconsider that. And I think what you've said here and also some of the stuff that our friend Alex has brought up in their email is this, you know, part of making me really reconsider that. And I think it's something that we'll obviously start seeing more and digging into more as we start getting closer to the end of Catelyn's chapters and her final arcs. it's sad because you can see it she's forged you know like all this is

forged it's inlaid in her soul it's shit you can't just get out you know you don't just get the memory it's like blood you don't just get it out by rinsing it she hasn't even tried to rinse it shit yeah Lady Stoneheart decides what if we get it out by washing it with more

blood is that a solution what if we get it out by bathing in it what if we get it out by laying in the? What if we get it out by laying in the blood and gargling it? That's the same. Well, Catelyn's feet take her to the sept, where she kneels among many to pray. She lights a candle for Edmure and Robb at the warrior,

praying for their safety and victory. Then a septent enters with a censer and crystal, and so she lingers for the celebration. And it's a young septent, pleasant enough, and, you know, did his duty well. But she finds herself missing the long-dead septon Osmund with his thin, quavering notes. And she imagines telling him her tale of Renly's death, and him telling her what he thought it may mean, as well as, you know, what she should do about the rest of the shadows that stalk her dreams. I love this little passage because it's such a built passage the first thing i love about it is

how catholic as hell it is right uh the septon enters with censor and crystal and he's a young septon and that right there just reminds me of like my grandparents attend this small catholic church right in the middle of nowhere and they whenever they get a new priest, you know, that's always the big talk of the time. Like, oh, the new priest is really young. Oh, he's so young. So to me, this is a total like Catholic people go to mass and find out they have a new priest. And they're all like, there's a new septon. And he's fine, but he's not like septon Osmond.

You know, he's kind of young. It's just something I've literally heard before it's very funny to me i have a quick question and like the quavering notes have you ever wondered this is something i've wondered as i've gotten older what if you sign up and you want to become a priest and you're not good at singing i can tell you uh that it's not that bad right like the priests don't have the most job usually like septons probably wouldn't have a huge job of the thin quavering notes because behind every priest that can't sing there are a bunch of women in a choir at church that can either sing or sing louder and more off key than him that's true because now that i think about it sometimes

they don't always lead us on that but some of them insist on trying i'm like maybe those are the ones who really do love to sing anyways man and my grandparents church i'm telling you we had this lady for the longest time that was just the worst that she was just every song was over exaggerated and you know by god it's hard to make fun of her now because i think about it and I'm like, she must have been so passionate. Anyways, let's return to these shadows stalking her dreams and Septon Osmond here. The shadows stalking her dreams. First of all, here's Lady Stoneheart once more. She's a coming, right?

The shadows stalking her dreams. That's like a very dark nightmare explanation. stalking her dreams that's like a very dark nightmare explanation and it does remind me of brand's vision of uh of the shadows you know being over his sisters with the mountain and the golden sun and everything and the darkness interesting does remind me of brand's little visions too that is interesting especially yeah that and obviously the Renly stuff. That's nightmare fuel if you actually saw that. Yeah. But also the shadows are this recurring theme that we've been seeing throughout Catelyn's chapters of the men who have failed to protect her and her family, right? And she doesn't have it in her yet, right?

She's starting to get there to hold bitterness against them. But I think it would hit too close to home. Except for, I don't know, maybe she's a to get there to hold bitterness against them but i think it would hit too close to home except for i don't know maybe she's a little bitter against renly stannis doesn't uh i think make a cameo in this line he does later on she would probably hold a grudge against him because you know you don't just again go around threatening people's kids but i also think it's interesting that she would trust this septon osmond you know coming back to you know being familiar with one of the priests right she trusts septon osmond enough to like confide in him of like yo i saw a shadow kill like that not even that like to to open up about this like act of regicide and i also think it's interesting you know based on the location and

his name osmond i'm just like and the trust that catlin has in him any chance that maybe he was he was a went chloe yo i'm not even kidding you eliana that i thought this immediately only because the weirder thing this might be just a weird gardening thing for sept and osmond and george might have just wanted some familiarity for cat of being home and thinking of memories right so let's just put that one out there that's gonna be our like small brain take on this one okay next big brain take this guy only is mentioned in a clash of kings literally is only mentioned in clash of kings which is also where the kettle blacks really start to rise. So, that being said, the first

Kettleblack is just about to get named the Kingsguard in Tyrion's chapters. The timing is pretty out there. I was thinking it could, I mean, first of all, first thought, what if it was fucking Oswald Lent in disguise, and he's dead now, so it wouldn't matter, so he's not. Okay,

so that thought was dumb but the next thought i had was like what if septon osmond ended up being the uncle that had put on the big tourney you know for the daughter the unnamed uncle it could be i don't know he could be he could be interesting it's probably gardening it's probably garden maybe i don't know but like you said like it's all coming in at this point in time in the book but maybe like george was going through an oz phase i don't know i don't know being near the went like being in the riverlands being related to the wentz obviously so obviously related it just stands out very much so absolutely well you know she thinks of all of these men of river on osman brendan maester kim and her father

she's like they all knew everything but now there is only her and it feels like she knows nothing and i find it's so interesting that again without all these men katelyn has defined herself against and has decided that she doesn't know anything, which is very much a lot like Sansa convincing herself that she's stupid. Catlin wonders, how can I do my duty if I do not know where it lies? Because who is she supposed to perform her duty for now, right? The only delineated role she can think of is maybe her duty as a mother, but she's far away from her youngest sons uh she cannot protect her eldest nor can she protect her daughters who are also far away and taken hostage though one secretly has escaped also far away though and that distance that physical distance

from her children one of them it's an emotional distance because a first of all teenagers am i right i'm joking but also am i right but he cannot he cannot afford to be mothered at this time or else he'll lose the respect of the men who are following him as king so catlin's trying to figure out all right what is that my societal role i don't have a blueprint for this and i also find it really pointed that among the lines that she thinks in this moment are i know nothing not even my duty which probably reminds us of another character who comes up like in this chapter and we're going to come back to this line too later on but here with catlin's character and her feelings of uselessness without a defined role or or a need for her uh remind me a little of another character who is also kind of a queen

but kind of not really but more of like the her role would be thought of as like a mother to a king in another series that i've started recently stormlight archive from an author who is allegedly dependable um and that character is navani she's mother to a king and she's also very much used to being an intellectual right using her head and she struggles with feeling like an outsider at court as people seem to think of her you know much less necessary right to have around because they're like, oh, she's the former king's widow. Like she doesn't need to do anything. We don't really need to do like have her and they kind of just like amuse her, right?

So it's interesting to see that perspective. Am I going to have to read this goddamn series, Aliana? I don't know. You could if you wanted. You don't have to, but like allegedly the books do come out. So the latest one came out in december is my understanding if i'm if i'm not mistaken about the timing jen snow our friend

jen snow from the asanga vice and fire subreddit is a big fan i'm gonna have to get into them that sounds great and i really do love uh yeah i think you're right and god i want to say warren might be but i've been told to and now now I think I might have to. I'd really like to look into that character. Navani sounds great. I think you would like Navani a lot. Yeah, I didn't even think of the Jon Snow there. That's really smart.

I know nothing, not even my duty. But she does feel lost right now. That feels really obvious, feeling useless and lost. And it's only going to get worse. So buckle up. It does get worse. It's literally the whole book. Though her knees feel much stiffer when she's done,

Catelyn feels no wiser, which I have to say, same. I feel that one. She thinks she might pray to Ned's gods later in the godswood. They're older than the seven. And she leaves the sept. She finds a different song playing out in the yard. Ryman the Rhymer is singing of Lord Daramond at the Bloody Meadow to a circle of listeners. Brienne pauses to listen as well.

Catelyn thinks, a mob of ragged boys raced by, screeching and flailing at each other with sticks. Why do boys so love to play at war? She wondered if Ryman was the answer. I love this line, this little passage. It's some George meta, all right? Because we know who George is and what he's about, and you know how he's a little bit anti-war, right? George R.R. Martin's a little bit like,

war might be bad sometimes. Just a little fucking hippie. But this is like some singer propaganda making legends, right? Telling the boys, you want to be famed. You want to die young. Which, of course, the opposite is true for, you know, the young girls looking at the princes with stars in their eyes and the knights in the joust which is really the entire thesis of sansa too in a game of thrones but this reminds me of war propaganda badly right uh specifically like the the rise to fame for rhymond around the camp

everyone's like yeah rhymond write us a new one write us a new one and putting their stock in this singer and it does kind of this line specifically really reminds me of elvis like interesting really badly because elvis got super super popular for his rock and roll right and then he ends up entering the army he was drafted into the army for two years and it does seem like it was kind of like a proven point, you know, that he went in like, aha, look at me. I'm a rock star. I'm America's sweetheart rock star out here causing outrage. And now I'm going to be in the army. Come be a good chap and get in the draft.

Just thinking of singers kind of playing that role for the war camps, you know, like, ah, war brings money for a lot of these people and brings chances for a lot of these people. war brings money for a lot of these people and brings chances for a lot of these people and the stakes are honestly really high and really awful to be like gambling with in my opinion really really crazy stakes to just be like well i could just you know go to war and finally have some sort of claim for something or make a home for myself somewhere after but that isn't always how it works right because sometimes you die or you get injured or you have ptsd which is always after war so yeah i don't know rhyming you might need to start singing about some other stuff like floppy fishes here that's a popular take a tom of seven streams yeah book page out of book. Teach people about performance anxiety

instead of joining the war. But that's, I guess, part of why people want him here, right? They're enthralled by that propaganda and hoping that they can join the effort. And it's like, no, no, peace. Well, some of the lines from the song are, I'm not going to put this to a tune.

Being a singer-songwriter is not my strong point. It's not amongst any of my points. Come on, come on, the great lord called. My sword is hungry still, and with a cry of savage rage, they swarmed across the rill. So there you go. Those are the moments that get the listeners blood boiling in a good way yeah i'm trying to think of what a good like riff for that could be you know like come on come out the great lord called my sword is hungry still

no who was that was that creed we just don't know creed i feel like there's a come on come on oh yeah there's there's some come on come on look a little harder yeah maybe that's it come on i'm accidentally in love it's you're thinking about shrek i'm always thinking about Shrek to be honest uh Brienne tells Catelyn fighting is better than waiting with sword in hand you don't feel helpless when you're armored it's hard for anyone to hurt you Catelyn says knights die in battle though Brienne says so do ladies in childbed no one sings songs for them yeah and i love again this exchange because here this is where you know they have that moment where caitlin and brienne realize and discuss how childbirth uh the way that caitlin sees it is women's way of sort of their own battle right like that the birthing bed is a battle and again women die there quite a lot because there are high maternal mortality rates because you know technology and

health and you know fun fact the u.s has the worst maternal mortality rates for a supposedly developed nation or amongst the developed quote-unquote nations no way why i know right isn't that isn't that surprising it is kind of fucked up though i mean yeah but i in a world of modern goddamn medicine i just yeah and you know like obviously um my thoughts on gender and gender roles in Westeros have changed over the years. But this has always just really struck me as such a powerful scene as both of them, you know, kind of try to see eye to eye in terms of like, you know, this, the danger is comparable in these moments. And that the women's role, even though it's not sung of in songs there might not be like a societal glory in it it might not be commemorated but it's still dangerous and important it doesn't

make it any less important not only just the mortality but like also what it means to to birth a child you know like you don't just yeah it doesn't just walk out of you and things are hunky-dory and that that can happen if you're real lucky but even then this is such an emotional kind of passage for cat because you think about like no matter what when you have a kid almost you all almost anyone that has a kid will get depression for at least a few days if not up to weeks after birth like or most people more months and not just that though but 10 to 20 percent of new parents birthing parents will experience a more severe form of depression like perinatal depression or postpartum uh that's crippling it's debilitating and that's not even on regular anxiety alone

right like birthing the little shitheads out is one thing but then like keeping them for years and having them be an extension of yourself as catalan will say soon uh i was just talking to one of my co-workers today that they they were talking about how they're separated from their child's parent their other parent parent, and their co-parent. But when they have to, you know, drop their kid off for the week or for the weekend somewhere else, it is debilitating. It ruins their everything, right? Like, they're lost because their whole day has been just, like, changed. Their whole lifestyle was changed suddenly, and it's hard for them to be able to separate and say,

I will see you in five days i will call you every day because they just are sad and worried yeah that can put anyone over the edge right like when you have no control when your normal life is uprooted and and then we see in that next chapter you know when her kids die quote unquote uh i mean that's the thing they want they thought least possible that rick and and bran would die they were like they're fine they're's the thing they want they thought least possible that rick and brand would die they were like they're fine they're in the north they're in great hands this is for the the north is strong no worries that's a mixture to put you right over the edge right absolutely absolutely especially because one of them's like her favorite

yeah you're not supposed to have favorites catalyn but you do she does she's she's just like admitted it more or less and to herself and that's important being able to admit it to yourself and you're talking about you know these other things that come along with pregnancy and i'm thinking again of liza right or i mean this is literally the story of both catelyn and brienne's mothers right they die in the birthing bed and you know how uh you know liza it's not just you know you're talking about the the other health effects that come with it it's not just in the birthing bed even like you could get an infection right your life can be put at risk for other reasons or uh lies in her miscarriages that in and of itself is a huge toll as well and also comes with a lot of like

complications so it's it's interesting as they as they level here and there's this line you know that i think is interesting this idea or this concept that brienne brings up of you know when you're armored it's hard for anyone to hurt you And it reminds me very much of Tyrion's advice to Jon Snow of, you know, take what words that hurt you, wear them now. God damn it. Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not make it your strength and it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it and it will never be used to hurt you and you know i think tyrian's actually got it a little wrong and i've written about that elsewhere in a in an essay it's about sanza but it's funny that brienne comes to that same conclusion here she's talking about it much

more literally in terms of battle but it's something that i think is clearly it's a lesson she's still wrestling with and hasn't gotten there yet in terms of armoring herself with who she is because she's still trying to figure out her identity too. I mean, she's also like 23 or something like. Yeah, she's 19. Isn't she at the start of the story? Yeah, she's still really young. People are still finding themselves out at that time anyway. Yeah, really young.

young people were still finding themselves out at that time anyway yeah really young and i do think there's like a certain in the middle approach to that right of that armor obviously i mean this becomes something so glaring in brienne's arc for her as you go into feast right when when she has to bury nimble dick she just apologizes yeah oh god what i'm a wreck i can't even talk about that don't get me started uh i'll cry all night i'll cry all night but what she just says i'm sorry i couldn't trust you i don't know how to do that anymore when you've been hiding your whole life right behind your armor uh hiding who you are and who you want to be and what you want it's hard it doesn't make it easier to come out of that armor and i I think that Tyrion too has done that and he's going to see a very largely adverse effect

due to that, right? I'm sure he's going to have some issues moving forward. A few. Yeah, just a few, just a couple, you know. Allegedly. They go on to discuss that children are a much different battle that there are no banners no warhorns but it's not any less fierce catelyn says brienne's mother must have told her of the pain and brienne tells her i never knew my mother my father had ladies she says a different lady

each year cattle encounters that's they aren't ladies, which I'm like, we don't slut shame here, Cat. I agree. It's kind of weird. It's like a weird less good version of Sansa being like, those were no true knights. But here I'm like, shut the fuck up, Cat. Yeah, and I'm gonna be honest, that's also Catelyn's personal

bias showing as she's about to think of Ashara Dayne and about Jon Snow in just a couple minutes. Right. It also feels like that seems like a Selwyn problem. Also, like, I mean, I don't know. Maybe he's just trying to drown the depression. Yeah. You know? I mean,

by just planting it in holes. He just wants to casually date. You know? That's fine, too. Yeah. Selwyn swiped right. God damn it. so we have this line of uh from cat as hard as birth can be brienne what comes after is even harder at times i feel as though i am being torn apart but that there were five of me one for each child so i might keep them all safe and who would keep you safe my lady so in response to that catelyn smiles saying that her mother taught her that the men of her house would keep her safe but for now they are away and brienne

must fill their place and brienne bows her head and says she will try and that kind of makes me wonder is that part of why at the end of a feast for crows lady stoneheart's like real mad besides the part of you know like lady stoneheart and what we were discussing about the extremes of her character but is it that brienne was supposed to be better right yeah brienne was supposed to fulfill like everything she lost she was supposed to be a better catalyn and be able to fulfill both of these gender roles uh and you know go forward with better now like it does seem like she's trying to like teach her oh so you just you never had a mother you poor thing well i'm gonna teach you everything you never learned about how the world works but it's like catelyn's learning right now about how the world works she's like but maybe i too

can learn and you know what someone again catelyn you're not that old all right there's still a lot to learn in life yeah she does she does have some narrow-minded moments in this chapter like that. Yes. Later in the day, Maester Vymon brings a letter of desperation from Lord Meadows, the new castling from Storm's End. He has declared Stannis the true-born

rightful heir at Storm's End, and Sir Courtney Penrose is dead. Gasp! I know, it's awful. Terrible. Catelyn doesn't really know the man, but she grieves for him. She definitely feels like some major grief to hear that he has died. And she says, well, Rob must know at once. Maester Vyman plans to dispatch a rider out to Ashmark, because that's where Rob was last marching from.

You know, toward the crag to House Westerling. Never heard of them. seems unimportant to this story it's about to go down west in the hurling i don't know what that was i don't either nothing is said in the letter that gets sent about Robert's bastard. And Catelyn's like, hmm, I expect that boy was yielded to Stannis, though I don't really understand why Stannis wants him so badly. Brienne ponders this. She wonders if he fears the boy's claim.

And Catelyn's like, no. She's like, no, no, I fear a bastard's claim. That can't be. She doesn't say it, but she's thinking it. She asks what this boy looks like. and they deduce he looks like robert stannis must mean to prove the incest claims brienne wonders if that can truly hold that much weight and cadeline tells her those who favor stannis will call it proof those who favor joffrey will say it means nothing. Amazing. You know, the usual with politics. But, so it's interesting because, like, you know,

I know that our friend Brendan B. Fish has hypothesized that what Catelyn thinks that Stannis might want to do with Edric Storm might be what varies if he has Edric, right? It might be his plan, right? To trot out these Baratheon children and be like

oh look this is what they're supposed to look like though interestingly at no point does Catelyn come across this is what a normal person would think this is what a normal person would do with their brother's bastard

son who looks very much like him but she doesn't hypothesize but what stannis is really doing considering that he's she's already seen proof of his like magic which is what if i sacrifice my brother's son on the off chance that it brings me dragons you know you say that and i will say that like maybe it's there just not said that she is thinking that because she does start it off remembering her shadows of her nightmares that's true but she doesn't i mean like but how could she even come up with that theory right like no that's true i'm not but no you're right you're right she is thinking of it because she's also

like it's kind of weird that only courtneyrose died. She's like, this is very spoopy. Also, it's kind of weird that Stannis literally just wanted the kid. Yeah. She's like, I don't really even like this place. It's a total shitbox. She's just like, I feel like I don't trust Stannis with kids. And you know what? She was right.

Don't trust Stannis with kids. One more time. One more time. Catelyn was right. Don't leave your kids. You know, speaking of people having anxiety when, you know, they leave their kids, you should have anxiety if you leave Stannis to watch your kids. Holy shit.

Oh my god, you should have all of the anxiety. I have anxiety. Even watching his own kids, you know? Anyways. Shit. Well, we have this passage. Her own children had more Tully about them than stark aria was the only one to show much of ned in her features and john snow but he was never mine she found

herself thinking of john's mother that shadowy secret love her husband would never speak of does she grieve for ned as i do or did she hate him for leaving her bed for mine? Does she pray for her son as I have prayed for mine? They were uncomfortable thoughts and futile. If Jon had been born of Ashara Dayne of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead. If not, Catelyn had no clue who or where his mother might be and it made no matter ned was gone now and his loves and his secrets had all died with him wow there's a lot to unwrap here

first thing lots of uh lots of foundation being laid for the will argument next book right yep that foundation's being laid here her wondering why would stannis want a bastard why would any man want a bastard what's wrong with him to uh and then sacrifice to the trick yeah right this is honestly it's so good that she did not talk to stannis for much longer than she did because she might have started getting ideas she might be like maybe i should head home to Winterfell. Talk about a red lady. Holy shit.

I do think there's just such an emphasis being put here on Jon and on Bastards and on Inheritance and her deepest worries coming out. That her children look more Tully than Stark. That Arya's the only one that looks like Ned

And that the others have her auburn looks And her high cheekbones and her eyes I also You don't see this coming Have to talk about a shardane What? Okay so there's a really technical aspect Of this sentence

That has produced some new Chloe tinfoil. I know you're all thrilled. I want to talk about the construction of this sentence. If John had been born of a Sharadain of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead, semicolon. If not, Catelyn had no clue who or where his mother might be. So the whole point of a semicolon is that you're connecting two completely separate thoughts, right? So when you're grammatically making a sentence that you're like, I want to throw a semicolon on in there, the way to tell if it works is by just like dropping one half of the sentence, right? On one side of the sentence, drop it.

Does it work without the other side? Then it is fine to use with a semicolon. So, if John had been born of a Shara Dane of Starfall, as some whispered, the lady was long dead. But what if John had not been born of a Shara Dane of Starfall? Would the lady be long alive? Hmm. Interesting. I'm just putting it.

I just, I'm just saying. I just feel like, I feel like I've looked at this line of text so many more times than any of you have in your life listening, Eliana included. Like, I've looked at this exact sentence and it has never done this for me until this week. It has never moved this way until this week. And it does kind of feel like a weird way of George writing that. And it could just be George using some stiff language. However, I really struggle to think that every word George has put into these books about Ashara Dane,

which is only about 11 quotes about her, I struggle to think that he's not being careful with how he words it. Yeah, there's something going on there. And I feel like this, this feels like a really interesting, not loophole, but you know, like clue. It is though. It's like a loophole, right? It's a technical loophole that I'm like, wait a second, like Simon didn't say. That's a great way to use it. A loophole is the perfect way to put though. It's like a loophole, right? It's a technical loophole that I'm like, wait a second. Like Simon didn't say. That's a great way to use it. A loophole is the perfect way to put it. It is a loophole in the whole sentence structure

and it may be like do a double take this time through. Hmm. Hmm. I mean, I think she alive. I think that's what that means. We know where she is. Indeed. We've been known.

As some whispered. Chloe. I'm the whisperer i'm the one who whispers i mean it does also i will say like and it made no matter she thinks uh which to her it does make matter obviously she's like it doesn't matter matters a lot to her absolutely it doesn't really matter to me except it does she but that's a lot of the fact that it makes no matter like i feel like that's also george saying to us like it really doesn't actually fucking matter who his mother was well it does right considering yeah ned and liana and you know, promise. Everything that'll happen later. But, you know, I think it's Catelyn trying to, as you said, right? Clearly it matters to her.

And there's a lot of things that we see in her interiority where she's like, I guess that doesn't really bother me. And you're like, you seem pretty bothered. But I do. Seem quite bothered, Catelyn. And, you know, amongst those, it is this idea of bastardy she's like you know it's weird she's like it doesn't matter and she's like but it does matter because she's like it's kind of strange how protective uh and strange some of these men behave in the face of their bastard boys but yeah she's like somehow roosebold just does not give a shit about his son, judging from the letter that they received three days ago, which, I mean, understandably, if my son were Ramsay, I too would be like, fuck, what happened?

coming back to edrick storm you know it is interesting how cat just earlier very much dismisses the possibility that stannis fears edrick's claim to the iron throne and then as we see that segues into her thinking about john and wondering about john's mother but she doesn't really think about john himself which is interesting. Like, I do think that Kat does fear John's claim to some extent, and that's going to rear its head much more explicitly in A Storm of Swords. But as we've said before, like, the way that she pivots here and thinks of the relationship that she imagines that Ned had with John's mother, and that, again, she's not thinking explicitly of John and is like, it can't, the claim can't be that important. Makes it even more clear, right? Like, in the context, like, of a discussion about duty, what's really going on here with her emotions?

Because Catelyn always did her duty, as we've seen in this chapter. Whereas all of these men who have failed her thus far, they were allowed to shirk theirs, like, from, like, Renly just straight up committing treason, shirking his duty to his brother slash probably rightful king, also the other kings that people all recognize, you know, the children, right,

Joffrey, to Brynden and Edmure, they were both allowed to refuse getting into marriages. Right? That was never on the table for her. Yeah, it was never on the table. Brynid has gone all this time without having to do

that, and Edmure couldn't refuse until he found, I guess, a bride that he wanted until now, now that they're in a war. And then also, Ned gets to just break his marriage vows and then come home, bringing the proof of that broken vow for everyone to see, for her to have to see every day of, like, you have to do your duty. I did not. And I will say part of how Kat feels towards Jon, again, it is misplaced and it is unjustified and therefore very harmful towards John, right?

It's ire that should be directed towards Ned, but if she wants a manageable life within one where she sticks to those roles and does her duty, she couldn't afford to have it go to direct that at Ned because then she ends up feeling the same bitterness that Cersei has nurtured over these years. So instead, Cat has to compartmentalize all of that. And again, it manifests also quite abusively. And

we see that buried within Catelyn's musings about bastards is that perhaps Catelyn sees bastards as a physical manifestation of men's desires, that men were even permitted to have desires, that they were allowed to voice those desires, and most importantly desires that men were even permitted to have desires that they were allowed to voice those desires and most importantly that they were allowed to act upon them whereas desire is denied to women again and again they can't even say it aloud their their desires are silenced and just never go anywhere and that's like what cat does when she thinks of her own doubts and fears she can't even voice those desires to protect her children and we see that then she projects those those kinds of desires onto john's john's mother wondering if john's mother also had desires that

were denied her such as the safety of her children whether john's mother feels the same powerlessness that she's feeling right now right because that's what this chapter is about and that catelyn feels in failing to be able to like do anything right protect ned or maybe this other woman right uh having to give ned up that she couldn't exert her desire over ned she has no power over what ned will do and has no agency over her own life and the well-being of her child she has no agency even whether she gets to keep her child perhaps right like and we see that ends up being the fate of some highborn bastards when we look at what happens with the sand snakes and how oberon takes one of his daughters uh from her mother so you

know there's there's a lot of that i, going on here with this relationship that, or not relationship, this woman that Catelyn is projecting onto when it comes to Jon as she reflects upon her own powerlessness to protect her children and her own life trajectory in general. But, you know, midlife crisis. Right, right. life trajectory in general but you know midlife crisis right right well i'd say it's more like three fourths or five six life crisis anyways we're sorry eight out of nine yeah it's got to be eight out of nine because she's a cat oh that's true that's right and also because it's she's most of the way through because she dies yeah that was the other part yes that was what i was thinking i know i was i was very soft i was soft pawing that one in you could say i'm here to barrel through to ruin well i do want to come back to what you're saying though and the sand snakes is a great parallel to bring up especially in light

of what we're hearing about ruse and ramsay with what we're going to learn about his bastard in a moment right uh it does make me think about ramsey's mom she was just some woman you know in the north that ruse impregnated and that ruined her life with this devil spawn yeah with the fucking chucky doll that is a character apparently that's really what he is he's like the Chucky doll of all characters. He's so annoying. Roose had written they were marching on Harrenhal in this letter, and then he said, if he must kill every living soul to make it robs,

he would. Ha ha, unless. Unless? He kind of hoped this would be considered evening out the crimes of his bastard. Ha ha, unless. Who Sir Roderick put to death haha unless bolton had written his bastard deserved it and that his new young wife would have provided him new trueborn sons soon enough and they would be in danger if ramsey lived true this is true uh and suddenly before cadeline can even linger on any of this which all seems so super suspect that like if you had thought for a second to just you know what it reminds me of

even though he's not as evil it reminds me of bob on veep the uh the guy that has the memory you know going and he like ends up doing all this shit and he's like aha and he doesn't know where he is it's like if you didn't know better this ruse bolton had a master plan you know like everyone thinks he's real smart like oh ruse knows what he's doing ruse is totally good ruse has the north in the best things for the north in his mind it's same as the bells right like suddenly oh a disruption how How convenient. Actually, inconvenient. Very inconvenient for, you know, Kat, who's eight nines of the way of her life through. Oh my god. There are a lot of these moments that we keep coming across that there's no time for her to actually, there's no time for her to actually think about what it means, what, who's coming where, and what that could mean.

Or wait a second, why is he doing this? Yeah, like, that seems weird. That seems off. definitely a disruption sir desmond squire arrives and tells them lannisters are coming from across the river a column of colors the purple unicorn above the golden lion most memorable suddenly cadeline remembers lord brax who had come to river run when she was a girl to propose one of his sons marry her or liza she wonders if this is now that son leading the attack which i have to say this really brings out a great parallel for catalan and brienne right who are constantly having to face their former suitors in this war in different ways true true true desmond assures her that these are only outriders and tywin's strength is in the

south they are in no real danger especially with jason malister in charge of defending the nearest fords jason's men hide behind rocks and then wait for the lannister outriders it's about 50 of them and they come down on the men the clash of steel on present, a clash of kings maybe if you will the dead men begin to pile up and the men on the walls shout taunts after the retreating men Sir Desmond slaps his stomach saying would Lord Hoster could have seen that, it would make him dance and Catelyn says that his dancing

days are past, Sir Desmond and this is merely the beginning of the Lannisters who have twice their numbers attacking Desmond explains And this is merely the beginning of the Lannisters, who have twice their numbers attacking. Desmond explains the environmental advantage they have with the Red Forks, West Bank keeping them in good cover. He says the river will hold them. Yeah, the Lannisters do return that night, and Catelyn's awakened by a serving girl,

so she climbs to the roof she's wrapped in her bedrobe, and she watches over the moonlit river men wade into the river splashing their way across most of them fall into the depths or they gash themselves on the caltrops that are hidden malister bowmen fire a storm across the river and catalan watches a man a light with fire pierced at least a dozen times until he falls into the stream and is carried off i just thought that that that was interesting, how that's noted. And like, you know, he falls into the river, he's carried off with his body, he's never going to be seen again.

You know, interesting. Catelyn. Yeah, other bodies. Catelyn's body floating down the river. And see, for me, this is just like, also the start of what it's going to look like for the Blackwater. True. You know, men alight with fire. I mean, this is what Sandor ran from. just like also the start of what it's going to look like for the black water true you know

men alight with fire i mean this is what sandor ran from yeah it's hot stuff the fighting ends in a small victory for the northern faction and as they head inside katlin asks brianne's thoughts on the battles brianne provides actually really great commentary says that this is merely a brush of Tywin's fingertip. He's looking for a weak point, and if he doesn't find one, he will make one. At least, that's what she would do were she Tywin, is what she says. And may the gods help us then,

Catelyn thought. Yet there was nothing she could do for it. That was Edmure's battle out there on the river. Hers was here inside the castle. She means the one inside her heart you know the one the conflict with itself uh you know i don't pull i'm not trying to pull a lot of the sansa parallels going on with catalan during this just because i think they're pretty easily and well highlighted but this one felt uh very very on the nose especially because sansa has her moon blood right and cersei says

the same advice to her that like ah this is your battle now your battle's gonna be this womanhood sure is magical sansa and that's kind of what we're going through as we'll mention that you know catalan's kind of got her own cersei and sansa moment going with Brienne. Like, our battle's here inside the castle now, Brienne, not out there. Well, she's like, I guess yours could be out there, Brienne, but it would be really nice if it were here in case the battle did come here. Please. Yeah.

Just not today. Maybe another day, Brienne. And that other day, you know, maybe I'll just hang you, or try to. Ah, for funsies. For funsies. After breakfast the next day, she sends for Eutherides Swain. She asks him to bring Cleos Frey a flagon of wine so she can question him more easily later. A Malister rider arrives in the meantime, telling them of another skirmish and a victory.

Lord Flemont Brax tried to cross six leagues to the south, advancing across river on foot, but the bowmen shot them down and the scorpions on the river sent stones crashing to break the formation. A dozen dead in the water, and they dealt with the rest briskly. Lord Vance was holding the fords upstream, and Catelyn begins to think, Wow. Maybe I misjudged Edmure's abilities. he's not the little boy that i remember just like rob nice justice for edmure um by evening she visits a hopefully drunk kleos fray who stumbles to his knees pleading with her that he knew nothing of the imp's plans to spring the lannisters she commands him to rise and says she knows no grandson of Walder Frey would be an oathbreaker. Though she thinks, unless it served his purpose, which, yes.

That is why most people break oaths, Catelyn. That's true. But it's also, you know, very much something you could expect, I guess, of the Freys. Cleo's Frey doesn't seem... He's just silly and... Anyways, so Catelyn commands him to tell her the terms he brought and he does she realizes that you know these weren't really any terms at all edmure was right except for one that catches her eye she reiterates lannister will exchange aria and sansa

for jamie and he says that tyrian sat on Iron Throne and swore it before the whole court and gods, but that Lord Edmure had said that King Robb would never consent, and Catelyn thinks to herself, you know... True. Yeah. Because he could have said as much before to her face. She can't even say

that Robb is wrong, right? The Kingslayer's dangerous and the girls were... I mean, they're girls, right? No one's going to sing songs about them. So she asks how her girls look, if they were treated well. And she watches Sir Cleos drunkenly dig for a lie. And she's like, aha, that's a lie. So she cuts off his search and tells him that he forfeit the protection of his peace banner

when his men played them false. And she asks him again again did you see my daughters and he says that he saw sansa beautiful but a bit wan and exhausted and you know what that girl should be exhausted she's she's had an exhausting life in time but he did not see aria who's also probably exhausted but for different reasons she wonders if it is from like did they not bring aria out to court because they fear what she may say or do maybe she's wild yeah maybe she's already dead and you know i it's interesting how no one's like optimistic here they're not like what if she got away you know which is what happens but i guess when you're

nobody thought she could that's also true but if when you're only used to bad shit happening to you maybe hope isn't like something that you learn to think about um i think it's also easier for her to just let her go now yeah that's true or she could make it very much so sadder if haha well i think it's just easier yeah to just cut your limb off right like? Like right there, just be like, okay, well, there's one. Honestly, it reminds me a lot of Jon's dream that he has soon. It's either in the next Jon chapter or the last Jon chapter. Jon thinks about the direwolves in either the next chapter or the chapter before. Either the last Jon or the next Jon. He thinks about how it should be six wolves, but now it's only five. chapter or the chapter before whatever whatever either the last john or the next john he thinks

about how it should be six wolves but now it's only five and i think there's a bit of that here for cadeline you know for aria that she's like i she can't give herself hope because then it's just gonna hurt more when she gets that taken away from her too just sucks i wish that she knew i wish she could just know that they're all there they're all fine mom yeah in fact literally it's just you and rob you guys are the fuck ups yeah well except for you know i guess brandon rick and are threatened in a moment but things surprisingly turned out okay for them she asks kleos who spoke for the crown during all of these negotiations because he keeps saying his terms and he's not quite saying who made it and she's like well that's not Cersei obviously that made

that term and he says the queen was indisposed and Tyrion spoke in her place she finds that really curious and she begins to think about Tyrion and how he was very clever how he had seduced Bronn to his side. And she wonders how he survived on the high road, but she's not surprised at all that he had. She thinks that, you know, Tyrion really didn't have a part in Ned's murder. And he did come to my defense, like, immediately when the clansmen attacked me. She really wants to trust him and she's mulling it over. But she looks down at her hand and she

remembers the bite of his dagger from the assassin and she's like you know what he's too clever he must have lied about the assassin the Lannisters are all liars and Tyrion's the worst of them all and this is a really interesting moment that she like really logically puzzles through it and she's like it doesn't feel like it but i do hate the lannisters so i think people really get kind of up in arms sometimes about some of the decisions cat makes but this to me does stand out because tyrian does seem like he could be a good guy and she has to lump them all together because she's lost so much because of them she can't afford herself to just be nice for a hot second but yet when she does decide to bargain with her daughter's lives and Jaime's life

she thinks again she is moved because of Tyrion like she is moved to do it because of him because she thinks of him and thinks of his respectful way and it's an interesting relationship uh we'll talk in a bit about it but she doesn't really you know with Tyrion she was pretty appropriate as far as Tyrion as prisoner goes and she was very like play by the rules she doesn't do quite the same for the next Lannister she has captive yeah and I mean she can't afford she's like for the next Lannister she has captive. Yeah. And I mean, she can't afford to, she's like, I'm not going to make that mistake twice. And yeah, I think that's such a great point. It's also, again, when some of those clues about the dagger,

the Lannisters might've been happening again, those thoughts were interrupted. Same as how there are disruptions here about Roose being very, very strange. And as you said the loss of ned has kind of just colored over her interactions with all the lannisters just very much um fool me once shame on you fool me twice you can't get fooled again um can't get you can't get fooled again yeah i can't get fooled again thank you former president George W. Bush no thank you

I love that line it's only I mean the best use of it is in the J. Cole song let's be real that's also true fuck the peace signs that could be a good jam for Cat 7 anyways Cleo's protests that he knew nothing of the plan true no you're right fuck the peace signs oh that could be a good gm for cat seven anyways

anyways kleos protests that he knew nothing of the plan and catlin agrees leaving the cell with brianne beside her and this is the the next part that i find the language in this exchange very interesting because kleos when he's saying that he knows nothing of the plan and he's protesting about it and you know what does our auburn haired caitlyn stark say you know back in a an interesting time in the story when another you know maybe like a fiery haired similar haired girl gets introduced into the narrative caitlyn says back to cleo's fray you know nothing and obviously obviously, you know, these lines are very important to Jon's storyline, okay? And Jon is, again, a looming presence

for Catelyn in this chapter. And, you know, I will say, interestingly, perhaps their fates are kind of similar, right? In terms of the resurrection. So there's so many ways that their storylines end up kind of intertwining like that but i find it also interesting how earlier in this chapter caitlin thinks about how she knows nothing she sits with it a little and then begins to experience that bitterness right that you're

talking about that road to lady stoneheart and rather than marinating in the feeling that she knows nothing she then externalize it externalizes it and turns it and projects it onto cleo's fray and says to him no you know nothing whereas the way that john reacts to this idea of knowing nothing is john just really internalizes it and then like self-brutalizes with the terms of remembering egret saying to him you know nothing which john decides clearly it shows that he's thinking i know nothing right um and catelyn throwing that you know nothing back onto kleos again that's her taking out her feelings on him and interestingly i would say that it's very similar to how her son rob acts um when it comes to his issues by projecting them onto others like i think one of the

most prominent examples of that which will lead into the one coming up in these chapters is when he blames theon at first for uh endangering brand when the free folk attack south of the wall um when theon shoots an arrow, when really Bran was in danger because of Robb's negligence and leaving Bran behind without a guard. And then we'll see in a few chapters later when Robb blames Edmure for not sticking to the plan that Robb never actually shares with Edmure.

So how could Edmure stick to it? How could anyone stick to this plan? So whereas john inherits ned's very self-punishing internalization it seems that rob rather seems to have gotten catelyn's uh sort of projection that's a really well spotted bit because he does he does lash out a little bit on some of those same aspects and he's definitely a mama's boy wow well we knew that we knew that yes we didn't know that one well we have this thought from catalan it is simpler for her she was like a man in that for men the answer was always the same and never farther away than

the nearest sword for a woman a mother the way was stonier and harder to know. I think this is kind of a very cold reading that Kat has about Brienne in this moment when she's thinking of Brienne. I don't think it's very charitable. I think it's actually a bit selfish of her in cold because she thinks it's simpler for Brienne. And she thinks she's like a man and she just categorizes her feelings as simple when Brienne has shown us throughout this chapter that her feelings on her gender

and how she presents to people is actually really complex, right? Like that she wishes for freedom to be free to go out into battle. She's not just a steely silent man in armor. She's hinted to Catelyn that she has issues with her father right who bangs a different girl every time she blinks is basically what she kind of mentions and that her father doesn't like to hear her sing that was kind of sad in this chapter that she's like no no my dad doesn't like when i sing he's made jokes about it

that's those are some things brianne mentions in passing to catalan and catalan doesn't like when I sing. He's made jokes about it. Those are some things Brienne mentions in passing to Catelyn, and Catelyn doesn't really pick up on that. She just tries to reinforce her stereotypical norms on Brienne of, as we've discussed, kind of like, this is how the world should work. It was projections again, projecting her pain onto Brienne. Yeah, and just the idea of, like, for a woman, the way stonier and harder to know, but Brienne is also a woman.

Like, that's not very fair. Brienne literally is a woman and Brienne literally just told you how she felt about having a sword and armor and why she felt that way about not having to wait. And I think that's that bitterness in Catelyn, you know, for her, Brienne could just put on armor and disappear into the crowd of men and not have to deal in her mind this is how Catelyn feels that Brienne doesn't have to deal with the backlash of that or that doesn't affect Brienne which we have seen it does it very much so does uh and I think it's frustrating for her especially with the condemnation of Tyrion we see this that she longs to take action and never gets

to and she hates when others can she hates seeing other people have freedom that she does not with no feudal restrictions able to kind of navigate between these roles no waiting for a lord husband no heavy skirts and hair pieces no smiling gratuitously to please someone you don't like she hates that she yearns to get out of that so badly and it's the life she can never get out of you know brienne telling her i long to be out there where my gender doesn't really fucking matter and i can just go fight and not stay in this castle where everything's anxious it does feel not in a awful way like i don't think it's as pointed but it does feel like punishment that cat is keeping her that close in a manner you know like yes brienne swore to do it but it does feel like

punishment that she's forcing her to fit where she doesn't fit in clothes she doesn't fit yeah absolutely it is kind of yeah kind of projecting that onto her and like forcing her to do these things but as you were saying all that it suddenly stood out to me that in that last line you know she says for a woman a mother the way was stonier and harder to know and i'm like oh yes stone yes stone heart um there it is coming up again but you're talking about how catelyn know, kind of longs to have more that freedom, that ability to do things and to act. And I agree. But I want to, you know, clarify that it's not in the same way that Cersei does, because we obviously see Cersei's chapters revolving a lot around that, right? wants that freedom kind of by virtue of believing that she should have the right that she's every bit as good as Jamie not necessarily because she believes all women should but because she specifically does and I'm realizing that the defining moment right for

Cersei was kind of when she was constantly mistaken for Jamie and people would treat her differently Kat's never had that moment so she's never really learned to question her place or her duty. And that same way, it's it's Brienne in a way like suddenly she's like, wait, so I could have maybe done something a little different, even though she has those examples from mage and and Daisy, right? Maybe she's just been like, oh, but that's just how the Mormons do things. But Brienne's a Sutheran woman, same as Kat, who is doing things differently. But as you said, right, it's kind of unfair the way that Kat is acting towards Brienne. And that's, again, Catelyn projecting that insecurity, especially now that she feels lost without the men to protect her or to tell her what her role is in relation to them, what her duty is she longs for

that physical power and that societal power and to own it partially because she thinks that'll bring her clarity in terms of like her duty and her purpose because then it that's defined because as a man you are singular in your own purpose and duty but also i think she wants to feel that protection again she's feeling so much doubt and fear and she doesn't necessarily want that power in order to exert over others but just to exert over her own life right which i think is a little different because that's how we see cersei using her power over others and catelyn especially wants that power as we see to be able to protect her own children and And I think that gets emphasized in the previous few chapters with Rob being, I mean, he's at war, right? And also as Captain's thinking of the

safety of her daughters here. And you've hinted at this, but it's a perfect setup for the upcoming chapter, the ultimate, if you will, clash chapter. And by that, we mean it's the last clash chapter, the next one, where she learns that she has failed to protect her youngest two children, her sons that again, include her favorite child. And together, these also help provide clarity into how we get to that big decision that Kat is going to make at the end of next chapter, where freeing Jamie is not only about the safety of her children. This entire chapter that we're on right now, it is devoted to how Kat has always followed what she was told was right. She has never broken the rules, not truly.

Every now and then we see her skirt in line, but she's never really broken the rules, especially when it comes to her duty. But when she's finally lost one of the first of the Tully words, that family, you know, allegedly, but she thinks she's lost her family she's like fuck it and does away with the second one duty because what is the point of keeping duty if it doesn't even keep your family safe so she finally breaks away from duty and being the good lady in service to trying to secure what she can of her family yeah it's it's so hard because like

when these rules that you are reinforcing and you are trying to keep control of don't actually do what they're supposed to do what's what's the goddamn point right yeah and i think something that's really glaring with cersei versus cat and how they handle their family is that the line for cat to brienne about splitting herself into five so that she could be with them and help them and keep them safe cersei's thoughts about her children are not splitting herself into five to keeping them safe but more like splitting them into several children to keep her safe yeah it's a bit of the opposite you know you see where she clings to joffrey her firstborn you know of what's left of the life as it passes by her the life that she's let go and like it just feels very different from catalan's catalan

doesn't see them as an extension of herself in that respect not an extension of power because like you said she feels powerless yeah she can't imagine them as granting her power just purpose ryman the rhymer sings through the courses at dinner so catalan doesn't have to talk she's very grateful for that one haha get used to it uh fuck what the fuck yeah i'm just saying i better start practicing now silent sister he sings the songs that he wrote of rob's ox cross victory so we actually finally get a lyric from wolf in the night and the stars in the night were the eyes of his wolves and the wind itself was their song perfect perfect depicter of gray wind of course the wolf in the night uh though i do love the stars in the night were the eyes of his wolves i think that's really beautiful and reminds me a little bit of uh of those crazy blue eyes that come up throughout A Song of Ice and Fire history and modern A Song of Ice and Fire.

Whether we're talking whites or whether we're talking a stone inside of your eyes, Mr. Star Eyes. But I do think now, now that we've heard a couple things about Ryman's songs and we finally get one lyric of this song we're gonna see this song come back and it talks about multiple wolves which we know there are multiple wolves out there and in the riverlands they're getting pretty bad but does make me think this will be connected with aria at some point namaria seems to be leading a gang right so i imagine this song might be being played at Red Wedding 2.0. Who knows? She's leading a wolf gang puck. I'm hoping Tama Sevenstreams borrowed the tabs from Ryman the Rhymer. Hmm.

It could be fun. Or, like, friends. Well, I like this part, where Ryman howls between the verses, and by the end, half of the hall would howl with them. And I would be part of that crowd. I'd be like, oh my god, this is the funnest song ever. Let's all howl. this and i i don't think i have it right i was just glossing over some theories but that uh to look out for this the howling in between the verses and that we are seeing the rivermen and the howling that they're going to use it as kind of a feint to uh fuck with the people in the riverlands trying to you know assault their holds kind of like hiss with me sisters yeah almost but Almost, but not at all. Not whatsoever, but mostly. Kind of. Well, Catelyn thinks, let them have their songs if it makes them brave.

Brienne tells her of the singers that would come to Evenhall when she was a girl and that she learned all the songs by heart. And Catelyn tells her, Sansa did the same. The few singers ever cared to make the long journey north to Winterfell. Sansa did the same, the few singers ever cared to make the long journey north to Winterfell. And then she thinks, I told her there would be singers at the king's court, though. I told her she would hear music of all sorts, that her father could find some master to help her learn the high harp. Oh gods, forgive me. This is one of the saddest little passages in the entire thing.

It kills me. And I will say this is like the big parallel moment to Ned realizing I killed her wolf. And what for? What for? This is the moment Catelyn realizes that she did not equip her children for the future properly. That she just sent them off just like she was sent off. She had a better equipping than they did. She got to learn to be the lady of the house and understand what she needs to run things.

Sansa just got sent to the princess factory, you know? She just got shipped on south, Arya too, and she let them go in her heart, as we said. She had to. But this is hard to finally realize when the next chapter, your sons are quote unquote dead. It's gonna be really hard that she just realized this. And this line really does make me think of just how ill-equipped Sansa was.

Like, that's what they told her. You're gonna go to King's Landing and get harp lessons. Not, you're going to King's Landing where people are politically ambitious and could murder you like your family was murdered here. Yeah, pretty much or hey you know how your grandfather died right but i guess catelyn doesn't know the exact story of that yet so yeah you know something that really stood out to me in this chapter is this line where brienne says to to c catalyn and she's thinking about singers but she recalls a woman from across the narrow sea singing in a foreign language with eyes the color of plums and a waist so tiny her father could put his hands around it and these details tell me that his father

her father was putting his hands around that waist right that's what i'm wondering i'm like that's what i thought right you took that too so i'm like so he was fucking the singer but also you know there is a little bit of a of the idea that maybe brienne could have some targaryen in her possibly people have kind of theorized uh or be from a targ line right or raise line as we've talked about so the idea that an eastern singer with purple eyes yeah that's interesting too that he was into some more maybe valerian or eastern looks uh but it does to me that does tell me like that he was hooking up with this singer and again that catalyn's right yeah yeah that you know those were no ladies mean, I guess in the technical sense, yeah.

But she's not right. Exactly. Slut shaming. Yeah. Well, apparently, you know, his hands were almost as big as Brienne's. So Brienne's hands, I guess, you know, maybe Brienne just said, I could have put my hands around her waist. You know what they say about big hands. The better to write fanfic with.

Oh my god Catlin asks Brienne if she sang for her father and Brienne embarrassed shakes her head saying that her father preferred a fool who made cruel japes sometimes and stuttering off and then Catlin says that she must sing for her someday and Brienne still very embarrassed says she has

no gift and then begs for leave to go don't make people who don't want to sing like sing. Like the priest, you know? Well, honestly, I'm literally not even kidding. Kind of feels like a Cat is Sand or Brienne is Sansa thing here, right? Like

sing for me with the Blackwater later and also that like men are like on fire going into the river you know. It does feel like that mini Blackwater kind of thing and And also that men are on fire going into the river. It does feel like that mini Blackwater kind of thing. And also it reminds me of the first episode of Game of Thrones at the Winterfell Feast when Cersei's like, you must make something for me sometime, Sansa. Then she turns to Catelyn and she's like, like a grandchild.

I think the one time that they really interact and we're like, maybe we're having fun together, and they're like, no, not really. Not at all. Not at all. But, yes, absolutely, and it's interesting, because what Sandor might be, Brienne's

basically is confirmed, whatever. Brienne's relative. Relative. might be Brienne's basically is confirmed whatever Brienne's relative relative so you know something else it reminds me of is earlier you were talking about how Catelyn's holding Brienne back from participating in the fighting and we see that

you know Brienne definitely has a mind for it besides the parts of the obvious strength and skill. And we'll come back to that in a second. But, you know, talking also about you were saying that the songs are basically war propaganda. Brienne is quite eager to fight and prove herself on the battlefield. And I think, you know, she was never good at singing songs. So it's like, maybe, you know, if she couldn't perform them she kind of internalized that and decided she would just live up to them right and you know

she's not going to be like jonquil in the way that sansa sees maybe those as like her role in in these songs right the beautiful maids and brian says okay i don't fit that that i'll just fill in the other part of the songs, the knights, right? And it's kind of very similar to how Bran is at the beginning of the books. And it's really interesting how rather than giving up on the songs entirely, Brienne just finds herself a new role, whereas Catelyn is struggling to find herself a new role. to find herself a new role. I think that's part of what Catelyn envies, that after having done what the songs and society have told

her to do this whole time, where does her song end then? What happens when the song's over? And what songs are sung of the women who do their duty? None, because it's what Westeros expects of women. And though women's roles

are valued in terms of who's going to create clothing right from when the winter comes running households producing heirs amongst you know other things like the agricultural aspects right not necessarily for ladies of course but it isn't glorified in the same way that valor in the songs is yeah it's uh it's interesting you know that brienne does come from the camp that has kind of a lot of political propaganda going on too yeah right like she really believed in redley's dream and he straight up sold it to her on a platter with sugar sprinkled all over it and it turns out it was a lie it was all a lie yeah it was a lie it was a lie. It was all a lie. Yeah, it was a lie. It was a lie.

She ends up being quite more glorious of a warrior than a lot of them in that camp. Yeah. Well, and that also feels like that's part of her plot, right? Like she is writing her own song. That is Brienne's thing. Like she is going to write her own song and be her own version of a hero and her own you know amalgamation of like gender all these different properties of what she sees in herself and her strengths and her weaknesses like i think brianne really embodies a lot of that so well and i

i think her writing her own song and being her own hero of her own song is so important yeah absolutely she gets to kind of play both parts in a way yeah your own hero do it for yourself girl well five days later they receive news of victory once more again foretold by brienne the writer is trembling with exhaustion but delivers the news all the same and again i think this is a great call it because like i said earlier brienne's a proficient fighter but as we've seen being a good fighter doesn't necessarily make someone a good strategist in terms of you know military and commanding and stuff like that but i think that brienne shows promise because Brienne may not have said what the winning strategy is here for this battle. But in calling every single one of Tywin's moves, it shows that Brienne has a mind for it.

Because Tywin's basically considered one of the greatest Westerosi military minds until Robb, who's just a prodigy, wolf boy wonder, comes along. rob like who's just like a prodigy wolf boy wonder comes along and in showing that she knows each of the moves that taiwan is going to make i think that shows that a again that's that's great skill because taiwan's considered skilled but also it's important in that it means that if brienne can figure out what and exactly when right earlier she Earlier she goes, now. And then, like, fighting erupts. She can predict that what and when of someone's attack. That means that Brienne has the capability,

perhaps, to think ahead to what a counter strategy to such an attack would look like. But, you know, no one's really ever let her lead anything like that yet. Yeah, her tactician, like, you know, no one's really ever let her lead anything like that yet. Yeah, her tactician, like her work as a tactician throughout this chapter is really apparent because she, I mean, even when she's like, well, you know, what Tywin should do is blah, blah, blah. She's like, well, that's that's what I do. If I were Tywin, it's like sitting next to someone who is so skilled at a sport.

Right. And it can call my dad is a football sport fan he's every sport fanatic he loves sports but you know you can sit with the man during a football game and he will tell you here's what you got to do what you really should have done in this play is you should have taken this guy moved him onto this field done this and you should have taken that and that guy should have grabbed him blah blah and you like it's like a science it's like a math right when i hear him do that and that's what brienne just did she called the play ahead of time yeah yeah and me i don't know if it's like meant to

just be for like the plot so that we know what happens but i'm gonna take it as brienne's very top notch brienne is the top commander in the world thank you yeah court adjourned um that's canon basically and for what it's worth like tywin tries to cross at every point he can from what they hear. And they throw him back each time. Lord Lefford drowns. Strongboar of Crakehall is captive. Adam Marbrand is forced to retreat three times. But the fiercest battle is fought against Sir Gregor Clegane and his men at the Stone Mill.

He ends up losing his horse, retreating and bleeding across the entire Red Fork. And Edmure writes that they shall not pass. Oh, that's a thing. Yeah, I was like, isn't that a thing? Well, he says they shall not cross. And I was like, that's that thing from that series. I don't know.

Well, see, exactly. The men in Riverrun, especially Desmond and his crew, are ecstatic. They're celebrating. They're like, we got to find Ryman to write a new song. And Kat's like, no, we're not going to do a new song. None of this new song bullshittery. Fun is banned. It's wartime. Fun is canceled. to have fun in Riverrun and Desmond though is like come on boss come on and she's like fine you can go tell everyone that we won something so he goes and announces the victory and the castle rings with celebratory shouts from small person to lord of Riverrun

totally they're all just yelling along and I think that's really great because you need that morale in this long and awful war and honestly I love coming back to Edmure in this, now that we have him back here for this writing. I love what Stephen Adewale said about Edmure

in his coverage of this chapter over at Race for the Iron Throne. Edmure reads, not as a man loyal to Rob, like what you were mentioning, but a man exercising his own demons, right, in his father's name, trying to live up to that on the battlefield in his own right and in a way that's exactly what catalan is ramping up to do in her next chapter right living up to who she is and exercising her own demons that she's held in for so long but there's something

really hollow about this ending as we know for catalan at the end of this chapter that we will read in a moment but also for Edmure. These victories, these mini victories, they've been nothing but feints to cover Tywin's move back to King's Landing, as he tries to get there in time for Stannis descending. These honestly aren't real battles. What we learn is we learn via Roose that Tywin knows. Tywin knew what was going on and that he had to get to King's Landing.

So as we get the unraveling when Rob comes back and he yells at Edmure a lot, you know, because he's mad about what he did. As we get that back, I want to pay attention to some of those details because it kind of does feel like it was for naught. This was a lot of wasted resources for naught. Yeah. And that's it. Also, like, when she thinks about, like, oh, interesting. So Stannis is freed up now. So it all collides at very poor timing for the Stark Tully forces.

Like, even if you could get your kids back right now from the lannisters you can't there's war happening right there yeah yeah absolutely but um it is interesting a lot of it is used for not and then i guess and i mean think of the small folk that could have been hurt like it's not for not in the end like obviously he what I think, too. And to be fair, those small folk might be more important than the big guys in that moment and the land. But I guess a lot of them die, too, in the Red Wedding. Yeah, they lose a lot of their people, too, in that. I mean, not a lot, but a couple, a handful, you know? Enough to where it's like, was it worth it?

Yeah. I mean, that is the question that is raised and tywin did it smartly yeah well the timing ends up really unfortunate for them because then they find out in that moment right like that's enough time for tywin to turn back around when stan is you know the black water and it's just all very unfortunate that the chips fall the way they do. Right? Because otherwise, like, this, what Edmure did wouldn't have been, like, such an impactful event. It was impactful, obviously, for the people whose lives were defended in that moment. But, yeah.

And I mean, Tywin played on that. He knew that Edmure was probably hungry for glory to prove himself with a dying father. And a family that they basically cucked with their war weapons. You know, like you put these people within their walls of their building. They can't really do much. There's war waging out there. So I think Tywin knew where he had them. And I mean, you have Brienne at the start saying, that's what I do.

Yeah, Tywin read them for filth. That's a phrase i learned recently and i really wanted to use it oh you recently learned it oh honey so oh my goodness i'm not great with like sayings and idioms um i'm i getcha i getcha well now we got this uh the ending you know the ending of this chapter rhymond played his harp accompanied by a pair of drummers and a youth with a set of reed pipes catelyn listened to girlish laughter and the excited chatter of the green boys her brother had left for a garrison good sounds and yet they did not touch her she could not share their happiness in her father's

solar she found a heavy leather-bound book of maps and opened it to the riverlands. Her eyes found the path of the red fork and traced it by flickering candlelight. Marching to the southeast, she thought. By now they had likely reached the headwaters of the Blackwater Rush, she decided. She closed the book even more uneasy than before. The gods had granted them victory after victory, at Stone Mill, at Ox Cross, in the Battle of the Camps, at the Whispering Wood. But if we are winning, why am I so afraid?

Insert meme. Are you winning, son? No, Dan, I'm not. Man. Yeah, it's very foreboding, very hollow, and I think it's great to precede next week's chapter that we'll be covering with Minero

on, you know, what Catelyn's going to do to make herself feel like she's winning. Yeah, especially after, I mean, I think we find out probably why she feels so afraid that turns out the fears end up kind of paying off but we know they don't really pay off because it's not real in that way but he also kind of anyways those twists and turns in this story yes yes you know i uh i'm honestly kind of getting sad because after next week we're

we're at storm you only started getting sad now oh you mean we're gonna we're gonna finish cat it's over yeah i mean so then we'll head to the next pov whomever that may be and everyone will just have to tune in and find out. Yep. I've seen some guesses. Yeah. I've seen some guesses. There's always guesses, you know. There's always guesses. There's only very few, and by that I mean one right answer.

Well, we're going to leave you on that till next time. So if you're thinking about who you think might be next in the Girls Gone Canon POV book here in the canon, so to speak, you can feel free to tweet that at us over at our social media at girlsgonecanon, C-A-N-O-N. Or send us an email with your thoughts on the episode or your thoughts on who you think the next POV could be, girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. gmail.com yes and of course be sure to keep up with us in our new episodes and especially be sure to subscribe so that you can tune in to next week's episode with our guest monero you can find us on podbean google play pandora apple podcast spotify iheart radio overcast acast stitcher wow that's a good run and you know what we're not on youtube we're not on youtube but minera's on youtube so you should check her out you can find us sometimes with minera on youtube yes but you should definitely find her the ginger

ale chats that we've done with her so yeah, those are live only. You've got to be there to experience it, truly. Those are special, limited editions. And be sure to check us out over at Patreon.com. Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon. There are bonus episodes available for patrons in the Stranger tier and above, the $5 and above tier, every month. And we do host a monthly brunch and happy hour over on Discord. For our patrons in the Thunder tier and above tier every month and we do host a monthly brunch and happy hour over on discord for our patrons in the thunder tier and above we will be having our august brunch and

happy hour on august 28th so feel stay tuned for more details on that as always i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts el Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thanks, and we'll see you next week in the Catalin Tully Riverrun Sex Dungeon. Oh my god. That actually is... That's the chapter. Yeah, I know. That's literally it. Yeah. Alright, see you there, friends.

Bye. Or foes. Oh. Sexy.