Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 140 - ASOS Catelyn V featuring Lady Gwyn

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

Where there's a will, there's a way—whether that's a way to get back to the North or secure the Northern succession, that is. Although, it seems the way to the Twins is quite rainy, delayed, and full of time for plotting. Lady Gwyn of Radio Westeros joins us to help break down the implications of Robb's will, Jon's parentage, and the rise and fall of Catelyn's hopes.  Links mentioned: The Grand Northern Conspiracy (by u/Yeade)   Where to find Lady Gwyn: Lady Gwyn's twitter: https://twitter.com/ladygwynhyfvar Radio Westeros' twitter: https://twitter.com/radiowesteros Lady Gwyn's blog: https://ladygwynhyfvar.wordpress.com/ Radio Westeros' Webpage: https://radiowesteros.com/ --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, Read a Song of Ice and Fire, episode 140, Cattle in Five, and a Storm of Swords, featuring Lady Gwyn from Radio Westeros. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, everyone, we are joined here today by another, another one of your hosts. Welcome back. Hello, lady gwynn thanks for coming on again with us hi i am delighted to be here and thank you for having me yes it feels right it feels right to have you on for a catalan just because you kind of are like the mother

catalan to us all here you know not maybe not like when you die but we don't want that I hope not we'd bring you back but we are excited to have you here semi in the flesh maybe not in the after flesh for a Catalin chapter last time you did the world's best Liza

I don't think that there's ever going to be a more canonical Liza in the fandom of podcasters just because you read so the fevered the desperation oh my heart tore out of itself I ugly sobbed it was beautiful during Sansa 7 in a storm of swords but here you are at cat 5 there's some ugly sobbing ahead so tell something good, like what's new with you and Radio Westeros? Well, we are at Radio Westeros just concluding our Winds of Winter Primer series, in which we have taken every point of view character and organized them by location

and recapped what's going on with everyone as of the end of A Dance with Dragons and made some predictions about where they're going in the winds of winter. Just a little service to the fandom so that you can all get ready, refresh yourselves for the inevitable day. Is it inevitable? I hear it's going to be next week.

I hope so. I hear it's tomorrow. Yeah. Look under your chair. It is coming. So, yeah, we just released our Danny episode, which is the finale. We'll be moving on to some new stuff very soon, actually. We're going to be doing a Kevin Lannister episode next.

Oh. Stay tuned for that. That's a lot of fun. Well, yeah. I mean, Kevin isn't. Not for him. He's not having a really great life. Kevin Lannister in the no good, very bad day.

He is having a bad day. He's not having much of a life at all, you know? No, where he left off at the end of a dance with dragons is pretty much he doesn't get a second chance to come back he's dead yeah he left his life the predictions for the winds of winter for him will be pretty simple so oh they could they could make him he could come back as a zombie you know like kyburn could do something be like this is sir robert weak instead of sir robert strong and i made another one this is bob we made another one bob week kevin i think that would just imply that kyburn skills are not as good you know like they've regressed absolutely

without you know the five-year gap his skills are just yeah uh i mean kyber they can't all be bangers as he trots them out i don't think we need we don't need any more kevin well and to be fair katalin does have nine lives right so i love it i can make jokes too eliana congrats well we're so excited to have you back and we're gonna get into all sorts of fun stuff throughout the episode i know we have some tangents to go out on especially some fuck walter fray tangents to get into but first let's handle some housekeeping yes so everyone happy october we are here it is the scariest month of the year. And we have some aptly themed episodes coming on Patreon to go with that. So this month is going to be a His Dark Materials

episode because it is this month. And last month was, of course, our A Song of Ice and Fire episode. And that focused on Robb Stark, the Robb robisode and what a pov from his perspective would look like and this month is going to be more focused on i think the broader world of his dark materials i am so excited for this episode because like aliana said we're gonna get spooky we're gonna be so spooky the entire episode we're just gonna talk about some of the great kind of uh you know just the different going to talk about some of the great kind of uh you know just the different creatures we come across some of the spooky lore of his dark materials and maybe where we've seen it in other mythos and lots of stuff that uh just talking about i don't know

its relation through other fiction and inspiration and also some of the stuff it reminds us of like harpies and ghasts and zombies and all sorts of crazy stuff from His Dark Materials. So if you're not listening to our His Dark Materials episodes, or if you are not reading it or have not read it, I highly recommend reading the His Dark Materials trilogy. And we're

covering it all over here at Girls Gone Canon. So you can find all that at our feed or at Patreon, where that episode will be available for the stranger tier and above patrons patreon.com slash girls gone canon and we have other things available on our patreon for example for patrons ten dollars and above the thunder tier and above we do have our discord and as well as the everyday thing where you can go in the different channels and talk to people we do have our patreon discord brunch slash happy hour once a month

yeah and this month is going to be it's going to be an event it's going to be spooky themed it's going to be october 30th from 1 p.m to 3 p., Eliana time zone? I don't know if it's Eliana. It is Eliana time zone, yes. Yes, it is Eliana time zone, Eastern time zone. Look, costumes for this Discord brunch slash happy hour event aren't mandatory, necessarily. You know, they're appreciated not mandatory but you should wear one like i'm not going anywhere i'm gonna get drunk on discord

in a redacted costume and we're gonna play like the monster dating game on jackbox and some other various silly spooky events are gonna happen and shenanigans that's where i'm at i'm gonna be having a costume party on discord with all my friends. I think people should. I think people should dress up. I will be personally hurt if they don't. I have an idea already of what I'm going to do for my costume. So I just need to get on that. Yeah, you have like 25 days. You have so many days. Yeah, I have a lot of days. You have 27 days. You'll figure it out by then. Yeah. Do you have a costume? Are you dressing up as anything this year, Lady Gwyn?

Just in general. I don't know. I'll see. The day will come and I'll just probably wear some weird clothes and weird makeup. That's what I usually do. Yeah. It usually works out okay for me. But, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't always do things for halloween i don't you know so most of the time we just stay in just because i do silly shenanigans year round so yeah well i guess not anymore yeah but so i'm not specifically going anywhere but you know if i happen to be well you've been invited to a party. Well, there might be. A party where I can stay home and wear a stupid costume. Only from the waist up, you know.

It doesn't matter if I brush the back of my hair or do anything like with this part of my hair. That's a great point. These are selling points you are selling pointing this right now you could wear bright green bright green and then have a green screen behind you and then you could just like green screen a costume on

this is the future this is VR this is the future yeah maybe this could happen to you maybe my costume will just be a bunch of beach balls. Costume is I'm somewhere else. Okay. We got a couple emails and tweets of notes that we do want to bring up quickly this week.

We did get a message from our friend, our patron, Dan good friend yeah dan said so rob stark pov must include parallel cave sex in the mountains of the crag right brilliant very brilliant well done well it was probably well done at the time he's literally literally right, though. This is it lines up timeline wise. We didn't really think about this as deeply as far as cave sex, but I think cave sex parallels are there. Mm hmm. No, I think that is the same timeline. So or like, yeah, very similar or the reveals happen at a similar time. So it's, it is really interesting to watch their character arcs and how they both deal with those in different ways they're fuck ups yeah literal they are fuck ups or downs i guess or downs uh we had a comment from juca over on podbean who reminded us a couple episodes back uh that there is a hoster in-universe named for Hoster. And we've talked about this one before.

Tytos Blackwood's son is Hoster. His friends call him Hoss, but Jamie is not his friend. That's right. That is true. And yeah, this is, I think, in response to my rant of, I just don't like the name Hoster and I would not want to be called Hoster. But I will say, I am fine with being named and called Hoss. I feel like Hoss has a good

ring to it. It feels like a solid name. Not Hoster, though. But who's going to name their kid just Hoss? No one. Isn't there a Hoss in Gunsmoke or one of those shows from the 60s yeah

maybe that's why I feel drawn to the name I didn't watch that show I don't know it's got some kind of like western yeah the big brother yeah Haas yeah that might be it maybe that's where George is taking I don't know maybe

I mean he really might be he really might be it. Maybe that's where George is taking. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, he really might be. He really might be. You never know. With that, that lets us get into our lightning round, which I'm sure you remember from last time, Lady Gwyn. It's been a while, right? It's been only three years since we've had you over to the House of Canon. Wow. but in our lightning round for you and those at home that need a refresh we will cover the chapters real quickly in a lightning flash between catalan four in a storm of swords and catalan five and we'll start that off with davos four davos rises from the dungeons and is given a A hand job? A hand job. Jaime 5. Jaime reveals his past to Brienne.

Lord Bolton explains his new fray wife. Tyrion 5. Tyrion greets the Dornish retinue and, later, Oberyn Martell. Arya 7. The outlaws plan to sell Arya to her mother and brother. Gendry decides to stay with the outlaws. Whoa. Bran 3. Brynn and the others

take a refuge in a holdfast near the gift. Bran forces calm upon Hodor when a thunderstorm approaches. Jon 5. Jon is tested in front of his new friends and fails, deserting the free folk and

fleeing. Daenerys IV. Daenerys frees Yunkai. Arya VIII. The Brotherhood Without Banners meets with the ghost of Highheart? Jaime VI. You want her? Go get her.

So he did. Love it. Romance. Beautiful job, George. Beautiful job, Lady Quinn. Thank you, George. And that tears us into some tragedy, right? Catalin five. The Northern king travels to the twins for

the wedding event of the season first stopping at old stones to look on the river king's ruins rob chooses his rob chooses his successor and makes plans for after the wedding so i do want to start off with a quick question. You know, Rob's choosing his successor. Lady Gwyn, you chose this chapter. Why were you so passionate about this chapter? I think you know. I am passionate about this chapter because I'm very passionate about anything to do with this sort of stark loyalist. Jon Snow, all the conspiracies.

This is ripe ground for, I'll use the term GNC. I tend to think that's a little bit overused, but all of these kind of conspiracies, they're happening. And a lot of it starts right here. That's true. It does start here.

This is one of those groundwork i think chapters even though it's like in the middle i guess of the books that we get but it really sets the tone for what the politics of westeros could be like soon but before we get there rob says goodbye to jane in the godswood beneath the parkalis and beyond the tumble stone where she gallops up pleading for him to take her with him he is touched but also not content with his crying wife's behavior it's raining gray drizzling and rob must console his tearful young wife in front of his men he's gentle but there's anger underneath gray wind prowls around them shaking water from his coat baring his teeth at the rain i have to say that gray wind

baring his teeth at the rain is absolutely the cutest thing in the universe that's the most important thing to say their kisses are cute or whatever but gray wind here like fighting the rain also it's kind of sad now that i'm saying it more out loud because he's gonna god damn it yeah i saw i saw a dog someone was watering their garden with their hose and i saw the dog like snapping at the stream of water trying to get it so i imagine gray wind bearing his teeth at the rain having a similar energy but as you said i i mean in general like this i'm like oh man that's so sweet of jane to have come up three times like but also really poor jane and i'm happy that she chased after that last one then she got

all the goodbyes that she wanted in and squeezed those last few moments because turns out it's the last time she's gonna see him ever that was so cruel i was like let's start with violence at the beginning of the episode jeez all right i'm shaking my head you guys no one can see that yeah oh i can feel it i think everyone at home can feel it too you know it's always more powerful when two people get to shake their head at her instead of just the one person which is usually me yes the balancing of the scales all right well once rob gives j Jane the final kiss, ow, he mounts his horse and Grey Wind races ahead of him.

Lame Lothar is there and says, Queen Jane has a loving heart to Catelyn. She's not unlike my sisters. Rosalind's likely dancing around the twins, chanting Lady Tully, Lady Julia Tully, julia gulia this is a wedding singer joke lothar turns to edmure commenting he's surprised at his silence wondering how how does edmure feel right now much as i did at the stone mill just before the war horn sounded edmure said only half in jest yeah so lothar says that he hopes that their marriage ends as happily as the stone mill.

And Catelyn thinks, may the gods protect us if it doesn't. I think it could. I think that there's a possibility that their marriage could end like the stone mill battle. Like heavy losses on both sides. Lots of violence. But there is one side that we're cheering for um coming out of all of it and they kind of they kind of end up semi-okay at the end but very much still suffering and it it very much could be yeah and honestly hysterically ironically horribly it's the one thing that could fix the riverlands after all

the warring is done like a all the frays are going to be dead except for a handful right scattered around here uh b everyone else is dead c edmure tully and rosalind fray will be wed so like the enmity will be kind of sewn finally between the two houses so it's kind of like the worst best outcome they could ask for everyone else will be dead and they'll have to like reboot the phrase reboot the tullies you know off and on again yeah big sad big sad i'm depressed already well yeah i know so i'm sorry that we have i chose this a long time ago i asked for this you you made your bed you've literally got this yeah you've talked to jesus uh well catalan presses her heels into her horse she's leaving lothar and admir to each other she's

like good be together i don't want to be with you too she had actually been the one that suggested Jane stay home at Riverrun because she's like Walder will find her absence an insult however her presence is going to be a different worse insult and Rob can take insults but he can't take insults at his wife he is Ned's son he would not sit there for that. And Kat thinks that he totally resents her for it, even though he agreed. It's obvious he misses Jane and he blames her for her absence. Oh, he's got to blame someone, I guess. But really, Kat's wisdom saved Jane's life. And we have to clutch that straw, don't we? Yeah, it did save her life. That's so apparent. Like, that straw don't we yeah it did save her life that's so apparent like this is unfortunately one of those oh mom was right moments my mom was right guess you can't really think that

though because yeah he doesn't have the chance yeah he probably did you know in those brief moments it's probably his last thought for like two seconds yeah he's like shit my mom was right wow um other than you know and yeah yeah absolutely and i also like that she says well you're ned's son so you wouldn't be able to stomach those sorts of insults kind of reminds me also of her thinking like there's a little brandon in there too i feel like brandon also would be like, absolutely not. Yeah, not at all. Oh, like at the tourney, truly, with Liana. He was the one who was angrier than most. Brandon was insulted.

It wasn't the rest of them. Yeah. Insults to his family. No, no, no. Only one Westerling actually ended up coming with Rob on this trip. Sir Raynal, Jane's brother and royal banner bearer. Ralph Spicer was dispatched on a very important mission. Deliver Martin Lannister to the tooth, freeing

Roback Glover, and most importantly putting Grey Wind back at Rob's side and away from the Spicers. Well, screw Ralph Spicer, honestly. I think they should have just let Grey Wind have his way and tear him to bits a long time ago

I mean that's not really a really deep analysis but there it is I mean for sure though absolutely it's another one of those moments where like you said mom was right

she knew about the she knew about the dire wolves and she should have run with it. But. Well, and there is that bit, right? We talked about this a lot in our Robb Stark POV episode recently, but Robb's rejection of his wolf. Like he is rejecting the wolf inside him and there are two wolves inside you and you cannot reject either of them if you're a stark the fuck it's true i'm right and i should say it my god i like it um we don't like rolf spicer we also don't like lady westerling uh she remains

back at riverrun with jane Elena, and Rallum. And while Rallum, Robb's squire, was sad to be left behind, it was probably for the best. It was to, again, not insult the Freys even more. And Catelyn prays that insults are all they will have to deal with. George, you're a fucker.

Really. Yeah. That's the whole entire chapter. It's really hard to read without every other line just being like, God fucking damn it. I'm sorry. I swear that my analysis will get better than just swearing, but that's where we're at so far. Oh, well, don't worry because it's going to get a lot deeper. You're so fine.

Right now we're just warming up. We're just getting sad. We're just warming up. We're just getting sad. While Catelyn totally fears their safety as they go to the twins, she thinks Queen Jane is more than safe in Riverrun with the Blackfish, the new warden of the Southern Marches, to protect her. Catelyn misses her uncle's craggy face, and Rob misses his counsel, she's sure. He had been instrumental to all of their victories thus far. I miss his craggy face too already really but on a meta level is this is george saying that uh you know

brandon tully the blackfish has an important job to do he's been left behind on purpose he's he's not going with them to whatever is going to happen at the twins. He's, he's there. He's been charged with protecting queen Jane and the Southern borders of Rob's kingdom. And I think we can all agree that blackfish is not one to take those sorts of responsibilities lightly.

So there's going to be a lot more to come on. I think both of those fronts. Yeah. I found that title this time through really stood out to me and it made me think a lot of like the marcher lords down by dorn between the stormlands and dorn for example and made me think a lot about borders and interestingly out of universe there is a lord warden of the marches that was originally between scotland and eng. It was an office in the governments there. They were responsible for security of the border between the two nations and often took part in a military action.

They were also responsible for administering special border law known as March law. These offices were made unnecessary after the Union of the Crowns of England and Scotland under King James in 1603. the Union of the Crowns of England and Scotland under King James in 1603. I've seen a few discussions that this title was insulting to Edmure from readers or meant to undermine him, and I strongly disagree. Edmure, we know, is enjoying winning a few small battles and leading battles and being the lord of Riverrun, but this is a role that needs to be kept to maintain borders in their kingdom. Admir has more than proven himself a capable lord, but he needs to focus on ruling currently and its people for Robb, and Brendan has the capacity to rule the borders in the military for Admir and Robb. I do think this role was created as a major honor for Brendan, who just lost his brother and has given to the campaign his military and commander

experience in full if the start campaign were to survive lol it doesn't but then it does uh it would need to be conscientious of these borders because we're seeing that the lannisters are pretty much able to do whatever the fuck they want and burn through the towns uh obviously they're not safe without this being watched. Yeah, I absolutely agree that it's an honor for Brynden. And also I agree that it's not a slight to Edmure. I love this fact about how there used to be a lord warden of the marches. But as you said, right, Edmure, I do think he's a better lord than Brendan Tully is. And Brendan Tully is clearly, as you said, a better commander.

He's a better military leader than Edmure is. And, I mean, people can't do everything themselves. Yeah. And obviously it's not one-to-one, but there's even some of those tones of the maker versus bailer, right? Like one has to rule yeah one has to bash uh you know during wars and we can't all bash we can't all be just you know button mashing out in the field like brinda and some of us have to go use techniques and tactics

those are the admirers of the world those the me's of the world no i also button mash anyways i do i do think that this is also really great world building for uh the north for the kingdom of the north and the riverlands because we have some other special wardens in history like the warden of the prince's pass is house fowler the warden of the stoneway is house ironwood warden of the white knife was manderly the warden of the king's mint which has been defunct since jaharis's ironwood warden of the white knife was manderly the warden of the king's mint which has been defunct since jaharis's reign the warden of the sands defunct it was only existing during the occupation in the first dornish war but having these titles as silly as they kind of are in a way it makes your kingdom sound more legitimate until you just start giving them

out willy-nilly like my company i work for anyways but you have to have a few made-up titles in a startup company is what i'm saying and this one feels necessary you know it also will give morale and give a sense of responsibility and loyalty to the groups is he like the vice president is that i was gonna say like a regional vice president yeah yeah regional vp brendan b toby yeah god knows what they do yes i don't i mean at least we kind of know what brendan does yeah but we also don't because the next book's not here but we have an idea of what he will probably do I think he's going to protect Queen Jane and defend the southern border but

I guess we'll see yeah well Galbert Glover came with all of them to take command of scouts and outriders in place of the Blackfish and the Grey John leads the the van. Then came the baggage train, their wains laden with food, fodder, supplies, gifts, and the weekend are wounded.

Wendell Manderly and the men of White Harbor command this part of the army. Behind them is Robin Flint and the rearguard. It's 3,500 men, blooded at all of Rob's battles, trailing through the Riverlands. Besides some of, you know, Edmure's BFFs, who are the other lords of the Riverlands, they stay back to keep control while Rob plans to go north and win back his home. Yeah, I think

he's got the same... It's obvious that he's going home, because he's got his weak and wounded with him. You know, they're on the move. You know, it doesn't seem he they're they're on the move they're you know it doesn't seem like they're planning to come back anytime soon and this is you know very close to the same group of mounted northmen that he brought over to whispering wood uh after he gained the crossing um minus the karstarks of course um but what's interesting about this i that i think

is that he actually suffered very few casualties throughout all of Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Camps and then his campaign in the Westerlands. Aside from losing the Karstarks, his army is still very much intact and around the same size. This part of his army. Can't say the same about the one that he left with ruse bolton but more on that later hollowed out that is a great point and it's really interesting and speaks to i think as people have pointed out right rob skill as a tactician is his military prowess like in that specific way and i think it is kind of then much more unfortunate that if so few people died and during these battles then real real unfortunate that it was karstark's sons

it is unfortunate and that he took that real personally i mean understandably so and we've discussed why but um you know last chapter we did notice too not just that but like ruse in the beginning was also the first part of his faction to lose men it's only ever been under ruse that he really lost men besides losing the karstarks and the frays and this also does add to that victory march home kind of feeling that's going on that we're getting the fake out for right like i don't even absorb any of the happy victory emotions in these chapters obviously he doesn't let us absorb it because the rain drizzles that down and drowns us out but uh there are these like little tinges of we're going home we're gonna do it and now on the look back i'm

like you sneak you goddamn sneak there's no victory here there's just sadness every time it seems like there's going to be something happy just don't buy it yeah well we get a hint of that with this quote a head awaited and yours bride and rob's next battle and for me two dead sons an empty bed and a castle full of ghosts it was a cheerless prospect brienne where are you bring my girls back to me brienne bring them back safe so when we talk about Lady Stoneheart, usually a lot is said about her frame of mind when she died. So I know we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit. But vengeance is the thing, first and foremost, that people talk about as being the strongest emotion in her being at the time of her death.

death. But here, I think it's interesting, we see hope, this desperate, consuming hope that was such a big part of how Cat was feeling. She's clinging to this, really, like a reed in a flood. And I think that hope probably really only dies much later when she finds Brienne in the Riverlands bearing a Lannister sword accompanied by people sworn to the Lannisters. And I think later when we're faced with Catelyn stroke Lady Stoneheart's pitiless response to Brienne, we have to look back to this moment to understand how much she had been relying on the Ma maid of tarth to salvage something of her family in spite of the fact that sanza had been married off to tyrian and aria had not seen in months she's put all of her eggs in brienne's basket and that's going to be very painful when

she perceives that basket is busted all those eggs not quite egg-ons but eggs oh my god as you said gotta break a few eggs should i make an egg on that wait um i don't know where that came from that was dumb but yeah absolutely and i think it's really interesting because you were talking about this this This is what you were saying just now, right? Like there's that really almost misleading hopeful tone to this chapter. It's a very much what's going on here because like despite all the losses, the Northerners and Rob, they're looking for hope wherever they can. And as you said, Catelyn is too. You know, she tried to make that hope happen that one time. And along with seeing Bri brienne maybe she's still

like i like the idea that lady stoneheart might have still held out hope i think that's interesting but then also i think there's the moment with ruth spolten right with the jamie lannister sends his regards and also yeah but in general right it's devastating on a reread to see how hopeful everyone is in this chapter they're like we did it we found the path to to make it home and get everything we want and then to see how excited rob is about balan's death he's like finally something's like going my way and then knowing that he dies before he can take advantage of it and like execute all his plans is like pretty crushing but then again i'm like we should have known it wasn't going to

happen because why else would george have told us all of the plans in such detail that always means it's never gonna work it's true though it also feels to me like a flag to like remember those plans because we might just see them by someone else someone else might be smart enough to figure them out talking about where the hope actually is in this chapter there is something happening right before this right the chapter right before this is jamie going back for brienne which is kind of the very antithesis of like what stoneheart thinks about jamie jamie going back for brienne shows maybe people could maybe change that trust friendship love etc all that shit inspires people to do things they didn't maybe think was previously physically possible for

them to do Jamie going back to Brienne feels exactly like not just that but maybe a sign that we should trust him and Brienne like maybe maybe they could bring some of those girls home even if she's holding them at sword point in some gallows somewhere like maybe Jamie and Brienne will be able to explain it's all a big misunderstanding right yeah right I mean it is it is a misunderstanding I actually believe that so yeah all a misunderstanding and I actually believe that. Yeah, all a misunderstanding. And, I don't know, there's the crazy dream, right, that's also very significant. The faint light revealed only Brienne of Tarth, her hands bound in heavy chains. I swore to keep you safe, the wench said stubbornly.

I swore an oath. And then, of course, the sword. A sword, Brienne begged, and there it was, scabbard, belt, and all. She buckled it around her thick waist, the light so dim Jamie could scarcely see her, though they stood a scant few feet apart. In this light she could almost be a beauty. In this light she could almost be a knight. George knew what he was doing in connecting these two chapters together to kind of evoke what's to come for Catalin where Catalin's arc is taking her as well as these arcs that are being added around her

yeah I love how you've tied it to because I really do think what you've touched on there is very fundamental to I think the heart of whatorge wants to explore in the series the idea of like that love trust friendship i mean it sounds like it sounds i think cliche a little bit like that it can change someone for the better and inspire them to try and strive to be better than they are and withholding that as we see with jamie's brother tyrian can make drive people to do desperate terrible things in search of it. And then again, when that's torn from people, when you tear away the love that they have, when you tear away their sense of self and everything and rely on violence, that also changes a person immensely, as we see with Lady Stoneheart.

I do want to just put a little disclaimer out there that i don't actually like jamie lannister uh you can't prove that i like jamie lannister there is no actual proof of it but if i did like jamie lannister i may have analyzed it in the manner i just did but i don't moving past that the rain turns heavier each day everything turns to mud stripping the trees off the leaves talking to your neighbor becomes more trouble than it's worth so men only speak when they have something to say one morning lady mormont gives cadeline words of encouragement we are stronger than we seem my lady cat's grown fond of her and daisy her eldest daughter they both were understanding of her freeing, her eldest daughter. They both were understanding

of her freeing the Kingslayer. Daisy is tall and lean compared to her short and stout mother, but they both wear leather, hoberk, and house mormon on their shield and surcoat. Catalin thinks their clothing is odd, but thinks they seem more comfortable than she's ever seen Brienne in that kind of wear. Daisy cheerfully says Rob hasn't lost a battle yet, and she's fought beside him in each one. Catelyn thinks, no, but he's lost everything else. She couldn't say it out loud. The Northmen's faith must be protected at all costs.

I must be stronger, she told herself. I must be strong for Rob. If I despair, my grief will consume me. What does it mean? Does anyone know what it means? What does it mean? What does it all mean? What does any of it mean? Everything relies on the marriage they go to make.

If Edmure and Rosalind find happiness, Rob will find fray power once more. But would that be enough, caught between Lannisters and Greyjoys? Rob can't dwell on anything but that. He studies his maps whenever he can. Edmure, however, is busy asking his court if anyone thought some of the Frey girls could be pretty. Catelyn overhears and kind of scolds him a little and says, you know, Cersei Lannister's pretty, and you'd be wiser to pray for a strong, healthy wife with a good head and heart. Surprisingly, Edmure didn't like her saying that to him very much. He avoids her the next day on the march, preferring his

young river lords who don't scold him in less to jest. I think that's the great risk right here that Catelyn points out when she notes that Edmure's mostly just surrounded by people who only school in jesting. and Joffrey end up in. And with the exception of his direct family, Edmure, you know, he's the incoming lord and his friends, like, he probably dealt with very little criticism in his life. And though his desire for a pretty bride is understandable, contextualized within, like, Cat's own life

and the plight of many of the highborn women especially like what his sister Liza had to deal with when she didn't really get to choose her husband and had to just deal with whatever he looked like even though that wasn't up to her standards or and didn't provide her a happy life either like Edmure is still when he enters marriage gets to hold a lot of the societal power within that dynamic so i think it makes sense that kat has very little sympathy for him in all of this and i do think she's right to point out that circe yeah she's pretty but is definitely not the sort of wife that he would have wanted i definitely don't think that edmure wants to be married to circe lannister uh though perhaps edmure like robert would have ended. I definitely don't think that Edmure wants to be married to Cersei Lannister, though perhaps Edmure, like Robert, would have ended up in a similar situation,

surrounded by his wife's family, who are, you know, they're kind of their enemies. But interestingly enough, that is actually his current state in the book, though, surrounded by his wife's family and enemies because he is a prisoner. I think that's something that we talked about a little bit last chapter, but Edmure is totally in that same Robert camp, just surrounded by his wife's family. And it's about to be,

I mean, it's like taking the Lannisters and multiplying them and turning it up to ten with what happens soon. God. Lord. All the subtext is now text for their relationship. Catelyn regrets being this petty with admira just for a second she's like maybe wanting a pretty wife isn't so bad and then she remembers her own experience she had a childish disappointment in ned

right she pictured him like brandon but younger but that's not at all what he looked like. She thinks, Ned was shorter and plainer of face, and so somber. He spoke courteously enough, but beneath the words, she sensed a coolness that was all at odds with Brandon, whose mirths had been as wild as his rages. Even when he took her maidenhood, their love had more of duty to it than of passion. We made Rob that night, though. We made a king together. And after the war, at Winterfell, I had love enough for any woman once I found the good, sweet heart beneath Ned's solemn face. There's no reason Edmure should not find the same with his Roslyn.

Oh, I really love this sort of exposition about Brandon and Ned and all that. But it ends with Edmure and Rosalind. So I'm going to just, if I could take this opportunity to point out what an absolute unqualified shit Walder Frey is. I mean, like, this is a newsflash. I'm sorry. But in case anyone never thought of that before. You know, he struck a bargain with Cat for the crossing in exchange for the heir to a Lord Paramount, that being Rob, marrying one of his daughters. What he ended up with was an actual Lord Paramount marrying one of his daughters. So technically speaking, he got better than what he bargained for. And he had been hoping for this match with Edmure for forever, but he'd pretty

much given up on it because Lord Hoster couldn't stand him. Entirely justified. But that's how that went down. So that seemed like it was never going to happen. But he basically got what he had wanted for years. And better than expected in the end. Notwithstanding the fact that Rob rose to be a king in the middle. But I think what really happened is Walder Frey, famous for not committing to one side over another ever, just got nervous when Rob was declared king. So he saw Rob's position and his own as untenable before Jane ever entered the picture.

This huge insult was actually nothing more than a pretext to get, on Walder's part, to get his ass out of an alliance that he had come to be extremely nervous about. out of an alliance that he had come to be extremely nervous about. It was Rob becoming a king that doomed him, not Rob marrying Jane. That's my opinion of Walder Frey. And, you know, I think Roose Bolton understood this, capitalized on it. I think he probably felt the same way about the situation. You know, you pretty much saw Rob being declared king as them standing against kind of an impossible wave of Lannister attacks and all, you know, so these guys are capitalizing on this. I don't think this changes the ends or the means or any of it at all, but I like to call it like it is. Walder Frey was an unre unreliable lily-livered craven and a

douchebag long before cat and rob knocked on his door and you know in hindsight i think it was foolish for anyone to ever expect him and his family to be dependable or sincere supporters yeah down with house fray that's what's so interesting because i love that you started it off with edmure propaganda lady gwynn i love that you were like i edmure toli i'm giving him a gift no i'm just kidding i did laugh though i was like oh edmure toli has entered the chat but that said edmure was so quick in the last chapter right to be like well i'm perfect why wouldn't he want me he wants me this is what he's always wanted and catalan is unfortunately the only one that sees the wider threat of it because once he adds you to his trophy collection it will be complete and then

there's nothing else he wants that's what you all were it's like you said he's been playing in the middle and not not rob walder fray but uh both sides for a long time right and and that's the risk because as you see he's like made too many alliances he's got people married to jemma lannister now fray but like so it was never someone that could as you said truly be dependable or trustworthy looking to gain power anywhere and i wonder if it's also like did he think that he would just have much less power in this other kingdom or he just as you said he saw he he freaked out i think when he signed up for this you know he saw it as just a way to kind of tweak tywin tywin lannister's nose a little bit i mean don't you know ned was still alive ned was the hand yeah when all this was happening and he

probably saw it as you know this is just a little spat between lords and we'll go down there you know we'll get ned freed up and smack tywin's butt and he'll go back to Casterly Rock and you know, Walder Frey will get to laugh at him. But all of a sudden, Ned's dead and Rob is like an alternate king and Walder's like, that's not what I signed up for. This is a little

bit more real than anything he ever planned to commit himself to. He's a shit. He's pretty much a shit. And he only gets shittier as we get towards the end. Yep. I thought this was going to go with...

So their root takes them through the whispering wood. The wood has changed. The leaves are turning and the rocks and roots are snarling at their feet. The only green trees left were soldier pines and spruces thrusting up at the belly of the clouds like tall spears. That's the language. I wonder what it means. What could it mean, Aliana?

What does it mean? Is this foreshadowing? Looks at butterfly. Who knows? But I mean, in general, like the language is just really great i think in that scene and the focus on the imagery but also how cat is just sort of reminiscing it sets the stage

i think for some of our other characters that we'll see especially in a piece for crows there's a lot of the the tone of this chapter is actually very reminiscent of some of those other riverlands chapters again in a piece for for Crows. But here, Kat is revisiting these places that we've already seen in earlier books. And she's thinking about how much her son and the northern soldiers have changed, but also in the context of how much she herself has changed, right? How much both of her homes have changed how her family has changed since those first battles when when they went on this whole thing and and we as the reader we got to witness that transformation we were there the whole time but i think what's really great about getting to do that reflection on her arc

is it also sets the stage for i mean especially, especially Jamie's chapters, because Jamie actually, they do the exact same thing, where he, like Kat, revisits places in the Riverlands where the reader had previously accompanied him and watched while he also started changing and is reminiscing. And you get to really see how far a character has come, whether it's regressing or not. Yeah, that's a great- It's not really regressing but yeah no but i mean we're watching cadeline lose heart this entire time um we're watching her heart literally just ice out in this drizzle and interesting to compare it once more with jamie like we said earlier right that transformation of watching him maybe become a less bad human being. I love this imagery. George actually uses this a handful of times throughout the series.

It's just like random imagery. But two of my other favorite uses come from the sworn sword. Elsewhere, the trunks of burned trees thrust like blackened spears into the sky. And then there's one that just happened in a storm of swords eliana knows this is one of my favorite ones because i'm like ah ah but in a storm of swords with john regarding egret after the word was a spear thrust after the war after the conquest after the wild things break the wall to see the spear thrust used within the same proximity as a metaphor like in a a cat and rob chapter and also in a john with his lover that he's not sure if he kills later on kind

of tragic chapter i don't know i think they're it's very obvious their tragedies are running very much so parallel in the opposite directions and i love that he put this language in both of those chapters it felt so significant yeah it that that line especially from the john one is it's a gut wrench and it makes me realize that is it the whole it is it is just twisting the knife twisting the spears the blackened trees but especially in the context of this chapter, where they're thinking, again, of that there's a glimmer of hope. But I'm realizing as I think of this chapter, and I think of everything that comes after, I don't know that there's no thought of an after for Rob. There's no thought of an after the war, after we win and get independence. There's no plan for like what what

they do in peace and i think it really goes to show like how how hopeless he felt his situation was until like this moment he never dared to think of an after the war after the conquest yeah especially watching danny's plot kind of run parallel, as we've talked about, of her rise and her wars and what comes after. What about the kingdom after? And I do think, that's not to say, I think they're both laying bricks for that, right? Like, Brynden as the warden of the marches, I think that's a big one to start to lay the fabric for of, okay, you're going to be in charge of keeping this border and these people safe so that I can focus on the North. But I guess ousting is the first thing.

I mean, you said, you know, Kat's thinking about her homes. She doesn't even have a fucking home right now. She's not even allowed to go home. There's no home for her anymore. Yeah, she's not in a state of mind where she's thinking like after the war when rob and jane can settle down maybe they'll have like in the same way that sansa or or even john have those fantasies of maybe i will have these children maybe there will be a brandon among them maybe there will be also a little rick in like cat isn't even having that even when she's thinking of maybe my grandkids she's like just

hoping that she'll even get her daughters back there There's no, after isn't like a time. It's a place that they never reach. And perhaps we will never reach it if the winter never comes out. Are you saying we're just going to be zombies in the Riverlands forever? Don't you feel that? Do you not feel that way right now? Yep. Kind of. Yep. At times.

Yeah. As they go back through the Whispering Wood, she's reminded of Ned, having been alive still, albeit captured. Bran and Rickon had been safe. Theon was fighting at Robb's side, boasting how he wished to fight Jaime Lannister.

Catelyn then wishes he had. She gives her own what-if scenario, and she thinks, if Theon had died in place of Lord Karstark's sons, how much ill would have been Undone? Eh. I feel like Undone's the wrong word, but also I'm just like, this feels like an unhealthy line of thought. I'm also just like, haven't the Starks taken enough of Balon Greyjoy's sons? Yeah. I don't really know how much ill Billy would have been undone.

I don't think Balon was going to do anything differently. Obviously, Kat doesn't know the truth of Brandon Rickon, and Winterfell might be safe without Theon being involved, but I don't think the overall outcome of Ironborn holding the North, blocking Moat Cailin, I don't think that was going to change in the slightest. Theon had really no impact on what Balon was about to do. I agree. I agree. If anything, it split them up more. You know, I mean, if anything, Theon waffled about trying to take winterfell

longer than he should have and hold it if anything like maybe not to be that person but maybe that split maybe that was like a helpful you know like yeah it sucks about ramsey being a person but maybe he took a lot of that brunt i mean it allowed our boys to escape right in the long run. Yeah. Rip Lewin. You were a real one. Rip a lot of others, but I mean,

Theon's Joseph. Yes, exactly. Theon's waffling about at Winterfell actually turned out like a pro. And there is something else in this line, right? If Theon had died in place of Lord Karstark's sons, how much ill would have been undone? Could you replace that?

If Theon had died in place of Lord Stark's sons, how much ill would have been undone? Is this George thinking of the future? I don't know. I don't know. Could it be? I don't know. Where would you get an idea like that? From the hit HBO experience, game of thrones which the books

assad and vice and fire were based upon no i'm just kidding i experienced vaguely remember that it's not tv it's hbo experience that was an experience we were we were together we were all together when that happened weren't we now that i think about it when oh when that happened oh my god we were all in the same room oh my god wow all three of us were in the same room was good it was really good man humans to touch them to see them yeah imagine imagine that

well yeah so Catelyn sees signs of the carnage not the carnage from the HBO experience that we all witnessed together the carnage here in the books way in the past it's decorated with stone cairns over some of the men who had fallen

but scavengers had been through she stares between the rocks and a bit of face, a skull, colored fabrics all peering at her she wonders where Ned might have landed after the silent sisters took him north accompanied by Halas, Mullin, and an honor guard. Had he reached Winterfell to be interred with Brandon, or did Moat Cailin shut their doors before they could pass?

Hmm. You want some truth? Hal Mullin made it to Greywater Watch, and he's returned to the Riverlands, and could be with the BWB, even as we speak. Pew pew pew. As we speak. As we speak. He's there, because we're all just zombies roaming Riverlands for ten years. He's been there for a long fucking time, Lady Gwyn. He's there, just waiting for someone to figure it out.

Someone free him. seriously i do have a theory that it's hal in the cave in a feast for crows reminding brianne that she had once sworn her sword to catlin in this same theory harwin has been sent north to scout the aria bolton story oh been replaced at stoneheart's side by hal molyne interesting but even if that's wrong i mean it's just a theory but if it's wrong i mean i think people rarely just disappear in a song of ice and fire meaning you know we didn't see the body so there's a pretty good chance he's going to come back i mean obviously being a body doesn't even stop people from coming back. Very true, very true. And he was in charge here in the Whispering Wood of Catelyn's guard around her.

He was in charge of Catelyn's personal guard. So I think that's actually a really astute connection. Like if he's back at her side, that would kind of make sense. Commanding the personal guard again. Yeah. Yeah. Every league takes Catelyn farther from river run and she wonders if she'll ever see it again or if it's lost to her like so much else the short answer is yes the long answer is yes it's lost she'll never see it all again i I mean, maybe she will. I don't know. But it's lost to her.

I hear it's a nice place to spend the winter. To warm up those dead old bones. Maybe. Five days later, scouts inform them waters are rising unnaturally at Fairmarket. Glover and his men try to swim mounts across the Blue Fork, but they lose two horses and one of the riders. Kat suggests they try a bridge upstream near Old Stones, but Glover says it was washed away first. Rob asks if there's another way. There's not. If they can't cross, they have to go around the Blue Fork, through Seven Streams and Hagsmeyer. Bogs and bad roads are none at all, Edmure comments.

Kat worries Walder will take this as a further slight, their delay, and Rob promises he'll be apologizing with every breath, having already sent birds ahead of time. He hopes Bolton made it across the Trident before the rain started. I don't. I wish he hadn't. Rob thinks he would have an easy march, straight down, and then, once Edmure joins Rosalind and the Freys join him, they can all go north. Cat asks if he'd be taking the causeway against Moat Cailin, and he smiles at her and says, that's one way to go. She knows he won't expand on this because a wise king keeps his own counsel. Also, he's not telling her anything anymore.

Big teenager. Teenager vibes. I'm not telling you anything anymore, Mom. Especially like he doesn't have to, but it's very much like that meme, the meme that inspired George in a lot of this story. Alright then, keep your secrets. I know.

I know what happens to Lord of the Rings. It's just a bunch of memes. That's to Lord of the Rings it's just a bunch of memes that's what Lord of the Rings is tired, Aliada every week Chloe wonders why she does this to me so many vows they make you record and record so they reach Oldstones eight rainy days later

camping on a hill within the ruined stronghold of the once ancient river kings. The foundation remains, but small folk had taken most of the good rock to make their own steps, holdfasts, and barns. In the center of the yard, a carved sepulcher stands in waist-high grass, the lid carved to look like the man that lay within. But rain and wind had eroded that. He wore a beard,

but his face was smooth and featureless, his hands folded over a stone warhammer on his chest. The hammer would have held runes that told its name and story, but the sentries had worn the cracked stone away. Wild roses and lichens wrapped themselves around it and this is where catlin finds rob and graywind in the saddest place in the house where can we find the oldest saddest place and stand there let's do it uh i know lady win's gonna go deeper into this symbolism in a little bit but there's just something so absolutely devastating here cat must be thinking will the small folk carry off the marble pieces of winterfell to make their own steps hold fast and barns can life once more be born from what has been made dead haha haha oh haha philosophy cat philosophy um but that is i mean and that's also the basis of you know the sansa

seven in a storm of swords right rebuilding winterfall at the start and the idea of the small folk carrying off the nice pieces of what was old stones and still being made to like use it again and that it was still able to protect them even though it was just like a shitty place that broke down after wars that feels like important right because I think the small folk are kind of important I hear kind of

seems sustainable I like the idea of it yeah well and that's what like a kingdom should do right it should take care of its people so it's like for this is the sad way of it we use all parts of the animal here i mean it kind of is that right yeah i do also like that the sepulcher appears soon after cat wonders what has become of ned's bones

it feels really pointed and it's like it's a reminder that one day there would supposedly be a statue for him in the Winterfell crypts. And while this is a statue of a king, Ned is, as Catelyn points out, father to kings and queens. And, you know, if the bones ever make it there to Winterfell, because, you know, apparently some people have designs on those, ever make it there to Winterfell because you know apparently some people have designs on those but I don't actually remember maybe maybe you all would remember if they ever succeeded in making a statue of Ned in time because I know that Lewin says that they will have to find someone who knew Ned's likeness but I'm like did they have time like that feels like it would take a lot of time before Theon invaded and just like fucked everything up and I for one would not be

able to focus on making a statue you know while everything's being invaded but I don't think they got it done I really don't think they did but there's still I mean someone might know one day but it is like it feels like this really important piece in the chapter that's just like very focused I feel on legacy and what happens to our desires when we die you know with the whole will and stuff but it's also interesting that again it is a king portrayed in stone besides like it's reminders of winterfell crypts because you know lady lady stoneheart and uh i'll come back to to all that later probably yeah i guess that that is kind of like the on the nose interpretation

there right the stone i didn't think about that uh i love it there's a lot there's there's so much in there though of just like what the stone represents for the small folk for rob for catalan what a what a loaded beautiful set and we're at old stones i mean come on that is that's exciting we are at old stones rob asks if the castle has a name and catalan tells him the small folk called it old stones when she was a girl but maybe it was different when the kings lived here she remembers camping with hosta and peter here once rob recalls the song, Jenny of Old Stones, with the flowers in her hair. We're all just songs in the end, if we're lucky. She had played at being Jenny that day, had even wound flowers in her hair, and Peter had pretended to be her prince of dragonflies. Catelyn could not have been more than twelve, Peter just a boy. Rob asks whose grave this is, and she tells him what her father once told her.

Christopher, fourth of his name, king of the rivers and the hills. He ruled from trident to neck, thousands of years before Jenny and her prince, when the first men were still killing each other, long before the Andals. The Hammer of Justice fought a hundred battles and won ninety-nine, the singers say, and the castle was allegedly the strongest in Westeros. Until, you know, seven

Andal forces joined against him and he died. We get it, George. It's foreshadowing. We fucking get it. Jesus Christ. The strongest castle. Winterfell's walls, how could it have burned? It's marble. Seven Andal forces against him.

He died. All right. Hammer of Justice, though. That's interesting. Tristopher being kind of a symbol of justice through his hammer, much like I'm sure we'll compare later with Robert in a bit, but it stands out to me with Rob's campaign being about justice for the North and becoming that figurehead for the North.

There are a few things in Tristopher's story that vaguely stand out, like the veil is the first stone to fall in Tristopher's wars. Roland Arryn invades the Riverlands looking to war. His allies end up betraying him to Tristopher. Tristopher beheads him at Old Stones. So different than what we have with rob and the veil there uh rob i mean i would say the veil is definitely a pretty heavy stone to fall for rob not having that help we see it's a significant downfall numbers win wars as we learn in the chapters surrounding this and in the future the last battle that Tristopher fought was against the seven Andal kings coming together. They were

led by Armistead Vance, and that is kind of what happens here for Rob, that his foes in the south come together to defeat him in the end, brick by brick, tearing him down. But there is kind of like a small little hope at the end of the story for Tristopher, which is that of Armistead Vance's conquering came House Tully and Riverrun. So it almost feels like there's that little hope that like Robb falls, but the North and the Riverlands aren't lost. The guerrilla warfare that the Brotherhood will commit to, it becomes key part of that. The North having their bit of quiet, dignified retaliation to the Bolton regime.

The wolves will come again is just like written on every page just quietly. It's there. It's waiting. Yes. Looking forward to that day. But unlike this, Christopher IV, the fifth Christopher was not his equal. And the kingdom was lost. Then the castle.

Then the line. As you said, they took lost, then the castle, then the line. As you said, they took it apart brick by brick. And then some later house mud had ruled a thousand years before the Andals came and house mud was lost. Probably because women don't want mud, allegedly, according to Barristan Somi. So I hear. So we hear. So I hear. So we hear. But I think that this is kind of a fun place in the context of the other chapters again surrounding it. Because some of the way that Catelyn explains what's happening here, who Tristopher was, kind of reminds me a little of the slight history lesson, right?

Of Bran and crew coming upon Queen's Crown. the slight history lesson, right, of Bran and crew coming upon Queen's Crown. And, you know, as opposed to a king's tomb or monument, which is, again, just a few chapters before this one. So you get the similar timing here with this royalty, these royal landmarks. And I think it's a little interesting in a chapter that's about finding secret causeways with the help of the Crannogmen, since the path to Queen's Crown is one of those hidden causeways itself and we are with some Kranigmen. Love it.

Nice. Yeah, I do too. I really, I'm, it's the one thing that we don't really get yet and I just want it. I want the bogs. I know you do. I want to just roll around in mud in a bog

and I'm so excited. I can't wait till we go there. The Howl's Moving Castle. Howl's Moving Castle. The Swampbenders. I can't wait to go in there and find a Shara Dane smoking a blunt with Howlin' Reed and Greywater Watch.

Do you know how happy I am to hear their pet alligator? You know, he's out there teaching her to spear frogs. Romance. It's not dead everyone romance is not dead ah speaking of those bodies there lady glenn those those missing bodies rob runs his hand over the stone regretting he didn't knock jane up before he left and says that tristopher's heir failed him cat reassures him it doesn't always happen on the first nor the hundredth time you're young you have time spoiler he does not have time

rob argues he's a king and he must have an heir if he died the kingdom can't die with him but sansa and tyrian by law get winterfell next. He can't allow that. The dwarf must never have the north, he says. Catelyn agrees. Until Jane can give him a son, he must name an heir, and she begins to offer him cousins, a sister who married a son of Lord Raymar, Royce, in the junior branch, three daughters who married Vale Lords, a Wainwood, a Corbry, a Templeton. But Rob interrupts. His father had four sons, he declares.

Cat knew this was coming. She argues a snow is not a Stark. He is a brother of the Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Rob says, John's more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell. True, I mean, true. Very true, very, very true true do we want to digress

about these veil lord links yeah this is like a great little side piece of veil some veil exposition uh first of all raymar you know the uh the name that comes from waymar george what is that what are they targs like what are these like fake ass raymar and waymar voice tweedle d tweedle dog i don't know he's like it waymar is an okay name i think raymar is like right there with the name hoster for me you know had waymar not come first you know i think he really fucked it up on that had waymar not come first you know i think he really fucked it up on that etymology wise so keep up with me we're gonna drop some some line here of raymar royce he had a son named benedict it was one of his younger sons benedict marries jocelyn stark jocelyn would have been eddard's grandfather's edwile sister brandon edwile Jocelyn. So Jocelyn and Benedict have

three daughters who all marry into the Vale, as said, in Wainwood, Corbury, and Templeton. This would be the cadet branch likely that we now see Nestor, Royce, and Miranda in. Jocelyn herself would have been the daughter of Willem Stark and Melantha Blackwood. Willem Stark was the Stark who went beyond the wall to fight Raymond Redbeard, who we're hearing about right now during Jon's chapters. Willem is killed and beheaded, and his younger brother Ardos avenges him, slaying Redbeard. Gotta love it, gotta love the themes, gotta love the names, younger siblings avenging their older siblings that die, yada yada. But also,

the Vale Lordlings in question from long ago. Wainwoods, Corbrays, and Templetons. Isn't that interesting that in Sansa's chapters in the Vale, here at the end of the book and going into A Feast for Crows, we get all of those characters. We have a Templeton. We have Wainwoods. We have Corbrays. We have Lionel and Lynn Corbray. We have Simmon Templeton. And later on, when Littlefinger is trying to woo Lionel and Lynn Corbray, Simmon Templeton, and the Wainwood faction, he throws a little wedding shindig for Lionel, right? There's something going on a little deeper there, and it makes me wonder if this is a match to his speech in A Feast for Crows, right? If this speech about the Veil Lords matches up a little bit with what Littlefinger says to Sansa about the Veil Lords, Alice and Alice, Aaron, and their children, how hairy the air is, of course.

Do-do-do-do-do, down the line, the air. It's almost like Littlefinger is just sewing together some of these familial ties in order to fabricate claims on the entire nations. It's like he knows he has other loopholes to get the North completely under his thumb, just like Natsanza. He keeps forgetting about that one. Yeah, yeah, he's on to something i mean he like he's made it his business to study the genealogy of all these major vale houses right don't tell me he missed the connection to the one house he's completely obsessed with yeah he's he's obviously aware of this and there it's not accidental that he's surrounding sansa stark with waynewood's corbrays and templetons and you know that there's a very fair chance at the whole point of it all that it all boils down to harry harding the only grandson of ellis waynewood yeah looking at the

actual family trees like there's no connection like right now as we sit here just because we don't know yeah the link but it does feel like maybe harry has a tiny bit of wolf somewhere in him too that would like help little finger i don't know and this is just baseless speculation because we haven't had a book in so long and anything goes but it does feel like there's more there and it's gonna be a real shame when he dies right away, and it doesn't matter, and none of this matters. Yeah. But that being said, it also gives more credence

to why those Veil Lords may or may not vote Sansa and vote North and say, well, we don't want to follow Littlefinger because he sucks, which they feel we're seeing that they feel that in real time. But they might want to go for the Stark if they've got a drop of the North in them. Yeah. Cousin Sansa.

Yep. Yes. Indeed. Cousin Sansa, whose father they loved well. Which actually it all fits when you think about why did med go to the veil to be fostered because they have this cousin familial connection with houses there yeah yeah no explains much and more i'm sure once we know all the details yes well rob says the

lannisters stripped the king's guard of their life vows so that's not a problem when it comes to john he's like and you know what i'll just send a hundred men to the wall and they'll find a way to to release john and catelyn says yeah but john can't inherit and rob's like well i'll make a royal decree to name it then there's precedent for that hmm isn. Isn't there? Makes me think about something that Aemon said to Jon in the first book about the three tests that the gods saw fit to give him for his vows, right? Once when he was a boy in the fullness of manhood,

and once when he was old. So once when Jon was a boy, already as we've seen in Game of Thrones, and now he's coming into the fullness of his manhood right amen said well you know i mean like the lord's kissing going on it's pretty full his manhood is full oh my god they phrase it like that i don't want to talk you said it this isn't my fault amen Eamon said it. God damn it. Eamon, why? My ravens would bring the news from the south,

words darker than their wings, the ruin of my house, the death of my kin, disgrace and desolation. What could I have done, old, blind, frail? I was helpless as a suckling babe, yet still it grieved me to sit, forgotten as they cut down my brother's poor grandson

and his son and even the little children so you know it's pretty devastating pretty devastating and that's i mean that's the theme tying in here right rob we're seeing the opposite of it where john in a game of thrones we had to go through these pains with him and this like split loyalty and how he just wanted to go for his family here rob's thinking the opposite of it he's thinking i could get john i could get john forgotten at the wall yeah and it also provides an answer to the question that john asks in the first book like how would rob receive me if i left the wall and i came to him and I came to join his cause, and he wonders, would Rob name me

deserter? Or would he embrace me with open arms? And now we know. We know what Rob would have done. He would have given everything for his brother there, but apparently he's not willing to give everything, I guess, for his sisters. Well, we do have that affliction, us ladies.

Being women. Being women, that is the affliction. Us ladies. Being women. Being women, that is the affliction, yes. Yes, it's... Haunted me since I could ever live. Yeah, that Jon's worth, I guess, a hundred men to him. Like, where do you get these fucking men? To just send to the wall and be like, you're gonna do this now, so I can get this one man back. Damn, Catelyn had to bargain and send Jaime.

Just kidding. Yeah. Then Catelyn reminds Rob of the grief that Aegon IV had brought the realm when he legitimized his bastards on his deathbed. But how could you trust them or their sons? And she says that they plagued the Targaryens for five generations until Barristan the Bold slew the last of them on the Stepstones. She worries that if Robb legitimizes Jon, then he can't undo it and turn Jon bastard again, and his sons by Jane would never be safe.

He reminds her that Jon would never harm a son of his, and then she throws Theon, murdering his brothers, back in his face. Greywyn leapt up atop King Tristopher's crypt, his teeth bared, Robb's own face was cold. That is as cruel as it is unfair. Jon is no Theon. So you pray. Have you considered your sisters? What of their rights? I agree that the North must not be permitted to pass to the Imp, but what of Arya? By law, she comes after Sansa, your own sister, trueborn. And dead. No one has seen or heard of Arya ever since they cut Father's head off.

Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone. The same as Bran and Rickon. And they'll kill Sansa,a too once the dwarf gets a child from her. Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as king in the north. I had hoped you would support my choice. I cannot. In all else, Robb, in everything, but not in this, this folly. Do not ask it. Don't have to. i'm the king man i can't believe i just fought with my mom for everyone to hear it was real crazy a little

intimate here sorry mom this is exciting okay i'm so sorry. The live studio audience. I just got slapped by my child. Yeah. Well, if I had that real power, I would do it again. That was fun. Okay. Okay. Just kidding. We're getting a little teenage angst in here. Really hard.

I kind of forgot about how hard she went on the Arya factor here, which interestingly enough, that's what the north does right they use aria's claim so she saw it before they did it they use aria's claim whether she's there or not yeah rob turns and walks off gray wind bounds after rob and cat grows weary knowing oh i caused even more damage today good for me making messes something else that really sticks out there was the john would never harm a son of mine because it's kind of a flipped script to me it's such a a line that we usually hear from ned right about robert in his head

robert wouldn't harm a son of mine dot dot dot would he maybe just a son of Liana's or sorry Rhaegar's could be either problem interesting yes yes it's a big big question and that's like a question in sin that falls throughout

the rest of the books for the record Jon wouldn't harm a child of Rob's john would love it he'd be such a great uncle oh he would he really would though all i have done is speak the truth are men so fragile they cannot bear to hear it she might have wept then had not the sky begun to do it for her it was all she could do to walk back to her tent and sit there in silence holy shit a mood yeah the answer is yes yeah yeah haven't we all been this this passage we've all been this passage yeah um this brings you know like just go back

a little bit in the same chapter with mage mormon saying you know we're stronger than than they think it should just be we're stronger yeah sorry not sorry ariza okart would agree yep the women are truly the strong ones in this shit at least i wanted to share something with you guys. This whole very atmospheric scene at Oldstones, which is so important to a lot of different things. But a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. No, on a website called Westeros.org. A friend of mine. Galaxy far away.

Yes, that seems like a galaxy far far away these days but i used to inhabit the rlj threads there years ago and i had a friend called frozen fire or that was the name they went by who shared this amazing analysis of this old stone scene i've never forgotten it i want to share my sort of summary of it with you. She started by reminding us that the description of the sepulcher immediately precedes the discussion about John. So obviously, we've just covered that. That's important. Old Stones is where Prince Duncan's Jenny came from, which brings this Targaryen connection into the scene, specifically Targaryen succession. Also, don't forget it was Jenny's friend that goes to High Heart, who prophesied that the prince that

was promised would be born from Aerys and Rhaella's line, which leads us back to Rhaegar and possibly his son. So all those things should be kind of swirling in our heads now, just by the mention of this place. Kat's response to Rob's suggestion about John, by recalling the Black Fires, brings the Targaryens and the matter of succession right back into the discussion. And then there's the tomb. We've covered some of the crypt things. I mean, it's definitely, crypts are important in Winterfell and John specifically. But this tomb can be seen as a metaphor for hidden or forgotten identity because a lot is made of the fact that it's obscured, it's worn away. The sepulcher is covered with overgrowth. The runes relating Christopher's story are literally worn away. There's a crown visible on his head, but his features are undefined, so we can't recognize him.

His story has been forgotten by all but a few, as we expect Jon Snow's story has been hidden, obscured, and maybe forgotten or remembered by very few or maybe only just one. few or maybe only just one. And that motif of the faceless king is really a dead ringer for the king in hiding trope, which of course we relate to John. So Tristopher, the name specifically means one who carries sadness, which is highly tempting to connect with Rhaegar, especially when you read the description of the relief on the tomb with that warhammer resting on his chest, reminiscent of Robert's warhammer crushing Rhaegar's chest. Then you've got the wild roses creeping up from the bottom of the carving, coming to rest on the king's heart, representing Lyanna, the wild rose of Winterfell. And then at the very end, there's a great scene, great moment when Cat sees Grey Wind standing on top of the tomb, his posture, snarling wolf head, looking for all the world like a defiant Stark sigil. The Hidden King is a Stark in spite of Kat's insistence that a snow is not a Stark and that is it he is he is a

Stark oh god oh he's beautiful thank you that was so beautiful and he is you know he's a Stark to me god damn it I love this and I do think in that breakdown, you know, that all of those themes that are swirling around, and they will probably swirl right back to encompass Jon eventually too, but, you know, Rob's marrying for love, much like Duncan, much like Rhaegar. I mean, let's be real, much like Rhaegar. That's the supposed sources of drama that bring down their kingdoms and dynasties. Absolutely. I really, really like this analysis from frozen fire so thank you through time um frozen fire and it's such a great way of tying the location the setting and and the imagery back to as you said to john and that discussion of him it also kind of makes me think now i was like thinking i was like is we know that

john is much more like ned is rob just more like rhaegar they like each other's fathers more than they are i don't know it's a random thought that it made me think of but in general it is just a very loaded scene and setting and like you said tristover sort of serving as a reminder of how that past with Jon is going to surface again in the story. But besides being a reminder of the past and Rhaegar's legacy, I also feel like the sepulcher is something of a caution about, you know, the kind of legacies and the kind of wills that rulers leave behind them. kind of wills that rulers leave behind them. Because the worn away features of the king, besides also being reminiscent of John's history, also, the features are lost, the runes are lost, and that kingdom is lost, right? Especially the memory. And it crumbled apparently very immediately after it. And it feels so much like an interpretation of the poem Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe Shelley, a poet from English romanticism, and also apparently the husband of Mary Shelley of Frankenstein fame.

And so the poem, it's very brief. It's a sonnet of, I met a traveler from an antique land who said, two vast and trunkless legs of stone stand in the desert, near them on the sand. Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown and wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command tell that its sculptor well those passions read, which yet survive stamped on these lifeless things, the hand that mocked them and the heart that fed. And on the pedestal, these words appear. My name is Ozymandias, king of kings.

Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Nothing beside remains round the decay of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare. The lone and level sands stretch far away. So this poem itself is inspired by a story of a statue of Ozymandias, a.k.a. Ramses II, that reportedly said, King of kings, Ozymandias am I. If any want to know how great I am and where I lie, let him outdo me in my work. And Ozymandias' boasting would have been towards his obviously contemporary rival rulers, likely the Israelites and the Canaanites. Yet, as the poem points out, and as we all know,

where are Ozymandias' mighty works, right? Physically, nothing is left, much like this worn away visage of Christopher. And so coming back to that, and also coming back to Queen's Crown again, a few chapters ago which i think has echoes with this chapter i think of this idea of legacy and that again so little is left of tristopher's legacy and that it all fell apart immediately after and all that we know of tristopher's legacy and memory is that it was characterized by fighting in war. He fought in 100 battles and only won 99, whereas Queen's Crown still stands. It's a tower. It's not a face or visage. There's no vanity to it. And the legacy of the new gift and the way that it benefits

the Night's Watch, that still has lasted long after the death of Alysanne and even survives the fall of her family dynasty. And so I think this is the kind of risk that Robb is running up against as a ruler and that all of the rulers are sort of running up against. I think Balon Greyjoy's succession, Kerfuffle, is a fantastic example of how this can go terribly. But Robb has just relied too much on the examples from the songs and leaned on battles, much like Christopher, as a way of trying to cement his leadership, which we see, you know, he's looking for just one last hand that he can play. He's pouring over the maps, trying to find it. And we'll see that the books do ultimately go on about probably Rob's

legacy. It might not be any of these ostentatious works. Yes, he does die, but he ends up becoming the inspiration for his siblings as a loving brother, as what they see a leader looks like, and kind of becomes a rallying cry for the North, because he ends up kind of being martyred, which is always the risk that you run when you unjustly kill someone. You don't say. It's always a risk. They did kind of fuck up on that no one told me that can't expect him to know stuff because he's stupid

so glad i was worried that your stance had changed in the past couple hours. Just so you know, I'm still over here hating Walder Frey. Still anti-Walder. Good. Walder anti. You know, all I can say, Eliana, just the whole entire time you spoke, all I could think is it's not dead, just broken. Like me.

Oh no! So, you know, that's where we're at. That's where we're at and that's where we're at in the days that follow rob is the first to rise each dawn the last to sleep and he grows lean and hungry as his wolf cadeline wonders whether he's sleeping at all and we can confirm he's not because he's busy worgen that motherfucker's out there worgen that's what he's doing we know think about what bran was doing in clash of kings that's what rob's doing here getting lost in the wolf catalan's mood has not improved and mage confronts her mood one morning asking all right what's going

down and catalan's like in her head well everyone i love has been murdered or worse married to tyrian and the only ones left hate me or expelled uh but instead she says the rain is dampening our journey we've suffered much and more lies ahead they must face it boldly but the banners hang limp and sodden daisy says she'd rather have rain than arrows raining on her. And Catelyn laughs and she's like, you got me there. Too bad about later. Asking if bear island women are all such warriors. Lady Mage says, were she bears? We have needed to be.

In olden days, the iron men would come raiding in their longboats or wildlings from the frozen shore. The men would be off fishing, like as not. The wives they left behind had to defend themselves and their children or else be carried off. There's a carving on our gate. A woman in a bearskin with a child in one arm suckling at her breast. In the other hand, she holds a battleaxe. She's no proper lady, that one. But I always loved her.

Aww. I love them. Yeah. There's an aspect of this scene and the descriptions of how the Mormont women came to inhabit these spaces, especially as warriors, which of course is often seen as the spear of men, that kind of reminds me of World War II, which of course is often seen as the sphere of men that kind of reminds me of World War II, because so many men were off fighting, women who were left back home, ended up continuing the work that men had left behind, which opened the path for women to eventually, you know, be in these

spaces to hold jobs and earn their own income. But also, of course, the language of the child suckling and holding a battle axe reminds me a little of how Asha always describes her jerking axe. But I'll leave the rest of that to you Chloe I'm so excited about this this is like one of my favorite moments and I think we've were robbed of these moments ha no pun intended we've been robbed god um I do feel robbed of these moments that Catelyn kind of has here with the Mormonts because and I think George kind of started getting into it a little late himself like he was like ah what if I put them together that could be fun but I'm so happy to have our first close look at Daisy this is the heir to

house Mormont we've actually only really met a couple other female heirs to houses so far right we haven't yet met Arianne we have have Daisy. We have Asha, technically. I'm just saying. And Meera, sorry. We also have Meera as the heir to House Reed, which is another one of our kind of our warrior woman. For someone with the weight of her house on her shoulders, Daisy carries it so well. She's spirited, she's easygoing, and she's killer with a morning star. And as we'll see in the next two chapters, she becomes something like a member of Rob's personal guard or his kind of pseudo-king's guard. And, you know, in a couple weeks when we get to Last Supper terms, she's kind of his Mary Magdalene, you know, his fiercest female loyalist. This scene between Catelyn and the Mormonts is one of my favorites.

I love Daisy's never-ending faith in her king, her innocence in that. And this scene particularly brings back what we get to hear in King's Prize between Asha and Alysanne Mormont, albeit this is much more hopeful at the time. Of course, Asha and Alysanne's conversation takes place after Daisy has died in service to the Starks, and the Mormonts have experienced some further loss. Sisters, Alysanne Mormont replied, gruff as ever. Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna's back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered. As Mage and Dacey explain that the Mormont women have always had to be strong in the face of

violence, whether it's Iron Men raiding them or Free Folk, they have always had to be strong in the face of violence, whether it's iron men raiding them or free folk. They have always had to defend their people, their home, their fellow she-bears, while the men fish. It's fitting that Catelyn, who by chapters end also kind of feels like a prisoner in her own son's camp, is the one to hear this story of Mormont women being warriors. The Mormonts had to fight to have autonomy in their land. Asha smiled back. Mormont women are all fighters, too. The other woman's smile faded. What we are is what you made us. On Bear Island, every child learns to fear krakens rising from the sea. The Starks themselves are about to come into having horrid men, like Ravos the Raper, or Ramsay Bolton in this case, coming to their homes,

ousting their kin, their people, murdering them, mistreating them, burning their cities down. What we are is what you made us, Alysanne says to Asha. That echoes for Catelyn, not just here as she becomes a hardened woman, but also later when she becomes a stone-hearted woman in her post-dead transformation what i am is what you made me yes rise well done well done thank you thanks oh my god thanks it's it's such a great like thread that he draws between later with the king's prize and this it's like such a bittersweet version of this it really is it is it's a great connection of the circumstances right of what caused all these women to become i mean hardened in different ways war it's war yeah it's war spoiler it's war

well on a on a very different note i guess mage is like you know who we don't like you know we don't like jorah's wife jorah's ex-wife and tells catelyn about her about how you want her a proper lady and attorney and how lynette's hated that carving which i mean yeah that's a red flag jorah that was a red flag that's an awesome carving i mean i also am like lynette's rights but also i'm like i'm like maybe jorah's the red flag holy shit no jorah is the red flag um there's a lot of there's a lot of problems anyway so she had hair spun to gold skin like cream but soft hands not made for axes and catelyn's like yeah yeah she kind of remembers her having seen her at winterfell feast she's fair So she had hair spun to gold, skin like cream, but soft hands, not made for axes.

And Catelyn's like, yeah, yeah. She kind of remembers her having seen her at the Winterfell feast. She's fair. She was fair and unhappy. And I mean, like, also, like, Jorah's family, I think, makes one more dunk at her where I'm like, did they just call her, like, little titties? Like, they were just saying that she didn't seem, like, great for bearing children or feeding them. And I'm like, damn, they really, like they really like went all in on like Jorah's ex-wife huh no wonder she didn't like being there

I mean a home isn't just like home is where no one makes fun of your titties unless you want them to yes exactly home is where you feel supported these people clearly did not support her or her titties I know

okay not everyone can be stacked like Catelyn, okay? Because Catelyn remembers Lannes, you know, drunk confessing to her. She felt that there was no place for a high tower in the north, and Catelyn tells her, you know, Atelier Forever Riverrun once felt the same, but found much to love here. And that's because she was able to build a family and Lannes wasn't able to because again

her family was mean to her her in-laws but of her family now Catelyn thinks all of them are gone Winterfell and Ned Bran and Rickon Sansa, Arya

all gone, Robb remains had there been too much of lynette's high tower in her after all and too little of the starks would that i had known how to wield an axe perhaps i might have been able to protect them better no jingle bell oh dear this is when george decided jingle bell had to jingle bell must die i think there's a song there but oh really we're all songs in the end killing the fray this is really great jorah exposition outside of danny's chapters there's not a ton of jorah exposition but in those danny chapters that bookend this not exactly before and after but this sort of sequence in the Riverlands. Things are coming to a head for Jorah. I mean, the specter of Lannes' rejection, really,

because we all know that's why he loves Dany so much. He and Dany quarrel over Daario in the chapter before all this is happening. And then in the very next Dany chapter, she says when she discovers Barristan's identity and Jorah's treachery. So it's good that we got to learn a little bit more about Jorah in between those two chapters. It's well placed. Secondly, in the past, I've made the case that Kat's arc is all about her assuming a Stark identity. And in this line where she doubts herself, I think this is a poignant reminder of that, that actually, no, you're wrong. Tali house words are family, duty, and honor. But in

Ned's world, in the stark world, family is everything and trumps everything. Over the course of Kat's story, we see her abandoning duty and honor in favor of family, defending Bran, arresting Tyrion, freeing Jaime, and ultimately, if I can look ahead those couple of chapters, her final crazed act of vengeance, R.I.P. Jingle Bell. Rip. This is all in the name of protecting her children, though. Everything that she does that basically has her turning away from the words of the house of her birth. Because she's becoming a Stark who will do anything.

You know, if you look at what Ned has done, his devotion to his family, trumped duty and honor every time. But when Kat beats herself up for not doing more, then, you know, I view this as part of her continual struggle to be better, to leave the gentle Riverlands behind and really, truly become a woman of the North, as she thinks about this, wanting to be a Stark and wanting to be strong and hard for Rob. But at the same time, I want to give her a big hug and tell her she's really doing the best she can, you know, with what's available to her. She's doing a great job, as a matter of fact. And I agree, you know, I think she has very much assumed that Stark identity. If anything, Rob hasn't done enough to cast off some of those ideas of duty and honor and service of family.

Whereas Kat, as you said, has. And I think if she's holding herself up to the standards of Mage and Daisy, she's kind of already accomplished some of that, right? She has the scars, the literal scars to show it in regards to the protection of her son, of Bran. Though I'm sure she feels now that it was in vain because she thinks Bran is dead. But, you know, if we're also talking about, like, as you were saying, like, doing the best she can to set her children up to grow up and protect themselves i mean if you look at the real numbers the real numbers of her children and not the catlin like what catlin's been told are the numbers of children she has in fact done a great job it's really just rob that you know fucked it all up and died in fact at that moment all at that moment when she's despairing they're all still alive yeah yeah everyone's

alive cat come on you've done how many stark kids does it take to screw in a light bulb you know well and there is something there too that like she really has to shut herself down on this trip and the maturity that she exercises in the face of all of the hardship that she knows is to come let alone what's happening now like that's so poignant that like edmure would rather fuck off with his bros and be like i want to ignore what's to come and cadeline who wants nothing more than to grieve and be so just like self like pitying that's all she wishes she could do but she sucks it up and she's like i can't be seen doing that for rob's campaign i can't do that um and she is a figurehead she is a voice of it so she has that responsibility but my god that responsibility is a heavy one

rainy days later they pass seven streams and head throughagsmeyer. They end up abandoning half of their wains in the muck, and they transfer most of the loads between mules and horses. Lord Jason Malister catches up with them more than an hour to dark with his column, but Rob calls it for the day. Cat's escorted by Reynold Westerling to Rob's war tent, where he sits with a map, Greywind at his feet, his counsels there galbert glover mage mormon edmure and a balding fleshy man that she doesn't know

jason mallister rises to offer cattle in a seat his face moving on yes look we are a very pro jason mallister household um we should have warned you of this lady gwynn before you hopped on but you know we have a thirst and it's for jason mallister x cat the true ship and i have to say the way he's introduced to this is great his hair had almost as much white in it as brown okay but the lord of seaguard was still a handsome man tall and lean with a chiseled clean shaven face high cheekbones and fierce blue gray eyes lady stark it is ever a pleasure i bring good tidings i hope we are in sore need of some my lord sore need of what um it's a pleasure okay i'm just kidding i'm sorry but jason i think he's a little hot for

her i don't know maybe she's a little hot for him you know maybe she deserves that maybe we need some grief fucking here that would have been great you know get your last one in before croak um i don't know i mean fierce blue gray eyes high cheekbones comely as fuck wow wow yeah good for jason yeah and an alternate timeline you know cat is living out her zaddy malice her fantasies and i hope for that for her has someone written that fan fiction i hope so i actually goes to seaguard like if cat lived you know all these what-ifs that are going around. What if Kat lived and did go to Seagard? I mean, that's what she wants. Did Katlin write that fanfic?

She doesn't. She doesn't want it, but. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Wow. She deserves it. Yeah.

Sure she does. I agree. I agree. I think in time, this could be a thing i don't know i don't know that she has any time lady when she doesn't have much i mean i think what if jason's into that okay wow i'm done okay i'll take us in another direction. But Jason Malister, this will be a downer. I'm sorry. Because he is kind of a reminder of two of her kind of serious miscalculations. And I say this with all love for Catelyn. But you know, she did trust Peter Baelish. And that was a mistake. And it led to her arresting Tyrion and that was not a great thing didn't necessarily have the impact many people think it did but it was still not a good thing why does Jason Malister remind us of that because she sees him en route to King's Landing while

she's heading to the in the crossroads and he doesn't recognize her. Just trots right on by. But it also reminds us of when she allowed Rob to send Theon to Pike. Good Lord. She had suggested Jason Malister go instead. Maybe forgetting, maybe unaware that Jason Malister killed Roger Greg Joy. Maybe she did know. I don't know. But in any regard, she did not insist that theon stay at rob's site as per nance final instructions i hate to be reminded of that because that's another what if what if

that had gone differently what if jason mallister had gone to pike i digress in truth, I think this chapter illustrates the futility of Kat attempting to influence King Rob at all. And given that, you know, her alternate suggestions in terms of Theon weren't really very good. You know, I just wonder, you know, if Rob would have listened to anything she said, I don't think there was a perfect person to go to pike anyone better you know i don't think there was a better choice to be honest um at least not somebody that you wanted to survive and live to come home but you know i do like the continued intersections of these two and i highly doubt we've heard less of Jason Malister. Yeah, probably not, considering, you know, Patrick. He's a...

Patrick has gotten a lot of screen time, too. And, you know, regarding the suggestion of Jason Malister as an envoy, I kind of do think that she knew what she was saying when she suggested that. It was an intentional suggestion signifying that she felt that Theon was the worst choice to send. Because, again, gestures at what has happened in the story. But I kind of took the way that she delivered him being an envoy in the same vein as Stannis responding to Janus asking, Who better to command the Black Cloaks than a man who commanded the Goldsire? And Stannis going, like, any of any of you i would think even the cook so i think uh her suggesting jason was more of saying that the

risk of balan interpreting jason as an envoy and taking that as an insult and becoming angered that was somehow even less of a risk than losing theon as leverage and then again leading to everything that has happened i think that's's a great point. And like I said, to be fair, I don't think there really was any kind of a good option. So, you know, Balon is going to Balon and, you know, he was going to kill and arrest anyone. Nobody was going to leave Pike, as Jason Malister's surprise visitor can attest. Yeah. And I will add, not just that, but also Bal balin wasn't gonna treat with anyone but theon and spoiler alert he wasn't gonna treat with them you know like his goal he wasn't gonna treat with

theon either and obviously and that did him no good he honestly shit you look back balin really could have tried not to fuck some shit up there he could have gotten a a hand up in the conversation depending on you know if it was faceless man slash Euron that killed him god I do think there's this moment later on that will gloss over that I want to add that like Rob just looks at Jason Malister and he's like so you have like a fleet, right? And it's a total little boy moment. You can see kind of like his desperation seeping through his campaign as we go along. And now Jason is a very attractive option for pretty much anything, right? Like pretty much anything they can get.

Yeah, absolutely. The Manderlys are too far away. But what you were saying about no one being able to treat Balon and being able to move him that Balon was going to do whatever he wanted to do that that speaks to what Lady Gwyn was saying just now of how nothing that Catelyn would say would move Rob, right? Like that once these men become kings, there's nothing that you can necessarily do to change their mind once they are set on a course i mean there are things you can do to change their mind but ultimately they are beholden to no one but themselves yeah i'm the king yeah yes well speaking of jason malister news rob explains that the captain of the merham was brought by jason a merchant out of old town the captain of the Miraham was brought by Jason, a merchant out of Old Town. The captain, previously imprisoned at the islands, declares, Lord Balin has died! Fallen from a storm while crossing on the bridge.

Greyjohn jests that he hopes King Krabs ate upon such royal jelly when told that, I guess, like, the Krabs ate his eyes or something? But the Miraham says, wait! There's more! Their brother is back and they're like victor and they're like no the other brother the crow's eye you're on you're on's been to a shy and back mirror ham had heard and marched into pike and claimed the sea stone chair drowning lord botley in a cask of seawater on his objection the captain of the mirror ham had escaped then and here he was this is the dad the captain of the chick that the escaped then and here he was. This is the dad, the captain of the chick that Fionn bangs out in that chapter.

I kind of forgot that. It reminds me also of Wex appearing in A Dance with Dragons as like bringing the information that the rebellion needs to move on, right? With Davos going to Skagos. And so this is interesting. This adds a whole new element to Rob's story that he almost got a chance to conquer.

Interesting, yes. And, you know, speaking of heirs and being heirless, as this chapter does, there are readers who theorize that Theon left the captain's daughter pregnant, you know, and that could be an heir to the Iron Islands and Theon's line. I don't really know if that's true or not, but I mean, it's an interesting

thought. Kind of makes me worry about what happened to the daughter if he had been taken prisoner originally and if he escaped during the kind of hubbub with Euron. I don't know. Where's your daughter, Captain? Valia Jr.? What if they just escaped

and brought her back to Old Town? Who's in Old Town? Yeah. Maybe. Well, Euron's going there next. Yeah, exactly. Oh, no. God damn it.

Oh, no. Out of the frying pan into the fire, I think is what you call that. Got to break a few eggs to make it out. Actually, probably literally. It's probably gonna burn. Rob thanks the captain of the Miraham for his news, and he asks him to wait outside. He tells the lords, Euron's no king.

Theon's the rightful heir, unless he's dead. Victarion commands the Iron Fleet, and Rob thinks he will abandon Moat Cailin to go back. Galbert reminds him the daughter holds Deepwood Ma and Robb thinks he will abandon Moat Cailin to go back. Galbert reminds him the daughter holds Deepwood Ma and Robbette's wife and child. So Robb continues and says she will need to sail home and oust Euron by pressing her claim as well. And as I read this, I realize the language and the way George has set it up. I'm so clever to see it. This is a redux of kind of what we're going to see in the north rob says theon is the rightful heir unless he's dead john's the rightful heir unless he's dead victorian commands the iron fleet this one's less one one davos and rickon maybe rickon commanding davos's boat uh and the daughter will need to sail home to oust euron

or ramsay to press her claim as well it's basically kind of a redux for the end of a dance with dragons going into the winds of winter with kind of the appeal in the north of what's going on for secession and also i have to add he keeps pushing on theon being the rightful heir to the iron islands in this conversation. And it makes me think because if he doesn't push on that, then what he says about Jon holds no weight. Interesting. I really like that. And I like the comparisons that you made here and why and that I think is a great tie between Theon and Jon, right? Because I mean, their stories are so important to one another, and they are both so important to Rob in parallel ways. But it also speaks to Rob's belief, like Kat's, in this

solidity, right? The dependability of the existing Westerosi social structure and the traditions, everything, etc. Because Theon must be the heir, because that is how we do things in Westeros, according to Rob. And I think that's interesting, especially in these chapters, because as we've been discussing, a lot of this chapter is talking about how things have changed in the land and amongst the people. And it's, of course, leading up to the absolute dissolving of those social structures when the Red Wedding plays out. And turns out nothing that you thought of how your world your society was supposed to go holds anymore i like it rob as you said earlier asks jason if he has a fleet sort of it's very funny to me like you can't just go around asking people oh my god my dad

said you might have a fleet do you have a fleet i could borrow oh rob jason says too he's like actually it's half a dozen long ships two war galleys not quite a fleet also if you send me to meet the iron fleet i will perish guess it's a good thing they're working on that White Harbor fleet eventually, right? But not in time. That fleet needs to get poppin' if someone's gonna defeat Euron. I'm just putting that out there. So, long ways around Westeros. Yup, get it going, Manderlys.

Get it going. Rob says he would never ask him to meet the fleet in battle, but he wants him to sail around the Cape of Eagles up the Neck into Greywater Watch. Greywater Watch. Interesting. Lord Jason hesitated. A dozen streams drained the wetwood, all shallow, silty, and uncharted. I would not even call them rivers.

The channels are ever-drifting and changing. There are endless sandbars, deadfalls, and tangles of rotting trees. And Greywater Watch moves. How are my ships to find it? Cop River flying my banner. The Kranich men'll find you. I want two ships to double the chances

of my message reaching Howland Reed. Lady Mage shall go on one, Galbert on the second. He turns to Mage and Galbert, telling them they'll carry letters for his remaining lords with false commands within, in case they're taken. Kind of reminiscent of Tyrion's strategy, right? In a larger form,

maybe higher stakes, assuming, you know, he's already assuming they'll be betrayed, but taking necessary precautions to protect the kingdom he tells them to lie if they're taken and say that they're going to bear island or stony shore because moat cailin is the key balin knew that which is why he sent victorian there mage doesn't think the ironborn are foolish enough to abandon moat cailin and rob agrees so they'll leave the best of their garrison but he'll

take many of his captains to speak for him at the king's moot galbert's in shock that he means to just attack up the narrow causeway no one's ever taken the moat rob reminds him yes from the south but from north and west simultaneously taking the moat they can take the iron man in the rear while they beat off the main thrust god fucking damn it george oh my god the bolton and the phrase will make his armies 12 000 plus and then he can divide them into three staggering them half a day apart but in actuality ruse has cleverly peeled away the stark loyalists under his command. He is already accounted for in the numbers Rob is talking about there, but he lost a tremendous number of men at the Green Fork, probably like a third of his army that had been left with him. And then he sent

Robert Glover and Helman Tallheart to Duskendale, which was a significant force that was pretty much decimated. More recently, he left Wylus Manderley and his rear guard, which is upwards of 2,000 men, behind at the Ruby Ford, where they fell to Gregor Clegane. So again, finally, he left a final group of 600 under the infamous Kyle Condon to hold the north side of the crossing. So he's pretty much dialed himself down to about the same size of a group as Rob has, about 3,500. So not quite as many as Rob expects, but critically now, Bruce's men, his army is mainly composed of Boltons and Karstarks to be reinforced by a couple thousand frays. So, you know, in reality, the combined force that Rob would have had would have been about 9,000, more than enough to take on whatever's waiting for them, you would think. But it seems like Rob missed the sort of neon signs.

would think but it seems like rob missed the sort of neon signs it's pointing to the number of men bruce brought with him and exactly who was missing yeah like in reality that confined force is actually just 3 500 people still and maybe rob should have been like well wait where did all the where are the the manderleys and the the tall hearts and the glovers and the wrist wells and the all the people that no they're not here just boltons and carstarks that's cool ruse let's carry on and you know it's a bummer because while bruce is just whipping through his armies like this and tearing them apart and sending them away. Rob is also sending his most trusted people away at the same time, right? Like his best disciples.

He's just like Ned in A Game of Thrones at the beginning of the end, sending away the people closest to them, the people they can really trust. Isolation. I think that might be a literary device yeah I guess at least the people that he sent away though they didn't die so there's that true, important too it feels important

the person that I guess Ned sent away amongst kind of helped to bring his widow back to life. Well planned, Ned. Well planned. Good job, Ned. I know you saw that. I know you saw that.

That man knew. That man knew. So the goal of Rob's whole plan is to think his whole strength is rushing Moat Cailin. And then Roose will have the rear guard, you know, so he can stab Rob in the back easier. Haha, just kidding. Unless... And Gelbert will lead the van against Moat Cailin. Rob will have the center.

The Great John jokes. He's like, I'll deliver you the moat before you even show your face, King! And Rob's like, I sure would love that. Edmure doubts Rob getting north of the Iron Men, but rob reminds him he plans to use kranegman secrets to get in through bogs wet roads reeds rob will reappear with his army and the fever if they move quickly they'll be there within years end after the

wedding falling on the moat while the iron men wake with hammers beating at their heads from the mead the night before which is another great great parallel to D&E 4 that just happened in Yunkai, right? Isn't that exactly what she did in Yunkai? Great point, great point. Thanks. Thanks, I did my homework today, everyone. Well done. A+. Gold star.

Yes. Rob did too, to some extent. Is that enough? It's a good plan. Yeah. Galbert agrees with you. Galbert likes the plan. Though he is, of course, worried about the risks, and he asks, What if the crannogmen fail you? And Rob reiterates,

My father knew the worth of Halland Reed. Damn straight. And then he turns to his mother, who now he delivers the blow of, She will be babysat by Lord Malice or at seaguard after the wedding until the war is done which is a new twist on sleeping with the babysitter that's a kink it's a kink i've heard people have is this my punishment for opposing him about john snow

or for being a woman and and worse, a mother. It took her a moment to realize that they were all watching her. They had known, she realized. Catelyn should not have been surprised. She had won no friends by freeing the Kingslayer. And more than once, she had heard the Great John say that women had no place on the battlefield. So, it's fascinating that Catelylin frames this as punishment for being a woman or a mother, on top of, you know,

everything else that women already endure in Westeros, but it is ultimately, not necessarily like a punishment, per se, but Rob does make a great point of not wanting both of his closest family members in the clutches of his enemies to be used against him, now that you

know that's happened to him a couple of times and i i do love though that cat's interiority does frame it as a punishment because she sees it now as her agency being stripped from her by her own son when her own desire is to just be by him and to protect him as his mother but ultimately you know she would be a risk to him same as jane was uh but this is also echoed and reinforced by the mormons telling catelyn that they understand her actions and her desires it is it's again it feels like unfair punishment just like what everyone's getting right now. Us especially. We are the most punished of all. All are punished.

I think you're right. Oh my god. Gelber and Jason are trying to be real gentle. Everyone is walking on eggshells around Kat because they're like, she's gonna fucking flip out. She's gonna fucking flip out. Rightfully so. Katalin does. She's like, you would make me a prisoner and jason's like an honored guest

but catalan turns to her son because she's like this is no offense jason this is between me and my fucking royal teenager and she would sooner return to riverrun she'll go to seaguard though that is his royal command and he adds for his final trick of the night, he has named his heir. I have no son as of yet. My brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I've thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision a king indeed katalin thought defeated she could only hope that the trap he'd planned for moat caitlin worked as well as the one in which he just caught her wow i get it it's a fish joke yes

fish trap I only just got that she's caught yeah I'm gonna I might rant a little it's not gonna be like the Walder Frey one we are very

I want to say because there's something that bothers me about this it seems to me that you know it's pretty obvious what rob's decision is i there's not one single shred of an indication that he changed his mind following his discussion with cat earlier in the chapter uh it's not not from her not not anything rob. It's quite the opposite, in fact. He says, I've thought long and hard about this. I thought long and hard about it, and then I talked to my mom, and she made me change my mind. And so five minutes ago, I came up with this other idea. Now, he thought long and hard about this.

John is his heir. So the real question here is, where is this will? Where are all the people who know its contents, and what are they going to do about it? That's the crux of the GNC, really. Every person who witnessed that document is alive. With the possible exception of Sir Reynald Westerling, who may or may not have been actually called to witness the document. It's not specified that he was in the tent. He brought Kat there. Maybe he stayed, maybe he didn't.

And he also may or may not have died at the Red Wedding. Giant asterisk. That's a pet theory of mine. We can talk about another day. So you've got the Great John. He's currently held at the Twins, alive. Jason Malister, still at Seagard, captive of Black Walder now, recently has surrendered in order to save his son, Patrick. Black Walder being way more effective at threatening to kill people than his brother over at Riverrun was. But Black Walder is currently second in line to inherit the twins. And probably in the very near future, he's going to be distracted trying to kill his brother Edwin.

So he might not be sticking around Seagard. So who knows? We've got Mage Mormont gone back into the neck. We know she's alive because she has communicated with Alisande since the Red Wedding. That comes from a Nasha chapter. You've got Galbert Glover, also in the neck, also likely to be alive. No reason why he wouldn't be. Edmure, alive. Catelyn, not actually a witness to the document, but knows what's in it. Also,

not really alive, but she exists. And she knows. Oh, she knows. So they're all out there. And then you've got the will, the will itself, which it's an interesting question. I think it's almost academic, because what really matters is for those, those six people, you know, that what they know their knowledge. I mean, yes, if we had that document, that's interesting. And it's a plus, of course. So where would the will be? You know, it's not mentioned that they took it to Seagard. It could have been. But if Rob had kept it with him, it was in their baggage train or in Rob's possession somewhere, which seems kind of like the most likely thing for it to have happened.

Then it would be at the twins. And in that case, you you know what did they do did they like ransack rob's luggage after they killed him you know somehow did did edmure or great john well maybe not great john i think he's in chains but you know maybe edmure managed to somehow get his hands on it maybe the frays have it would they care i mean probably not because as far as they're concerned it's over they killed rob and his kingdom is is you know a dead issue but if edmure has it then it could actually make its way to river run in that case even though i don't see any way that lady stoneheart could have it now she could have it in the future. It's still kicking around the Riverlands.

Yeah. And I think it's a great point. As you said, this chapter is the foundations of the GNC or the Grand Northern Conspiracy. And there are parts of it, a lot of it is really well thought out and pieces a lot of what's going on,

especially in those dance chapters together. So if you haven't taken a look at it, I would definitely recommend people read it. There are parts of it that I subscribe to in parts that I don't, which is true of like many things, right? And I agree that Rob hasn't changed the contents of the will. I know that there are people who like, I guess, believe that he has. But I think, as you said, it's pretty strongly laid out that it's still going to be Jon, especially with the way that Catelyn feels at the end of the chapter. And I mean, sometimes you don't have to like say things explicitly, like you assume that it's

kind of implied in the way that George was like, why are people asking you what word like Brienne shouted? It was sword. It was sword, everyone. And i i agree that the contents of the will still name john as heir i feel like maybe if she doesn't deliver the will like i still think mage is going to deliver the news in some form i don't know if it's the will or not but she's gonna she's gonna make it to the wall and she's i think she's gonna tell john and i don't really like have any sort of interesting reason as to why she does it other than than I think that there's a lot talking about her and Tormund having met before. And my only logic for Mage making it to the Wall to deliver news of any sort is just shipping. That's it. I like it.

like it and i just think i just think there's a lot of language like why would they tell me all this about them like having like a one-night stand if they weren't gonna you know maybe meet again and bringing up that cat does know the contents of the will of course is an interesting question i think in terms of whether or not she would honor the decision. She might not even make it to where it matters to the story. She might already have been put to rest. But I think what's interesting about the idea of the will and how it comes up in Catlin's chapters and Lady Stoneheart, together these really, I think, become a question on what happens to our desires when we die, right? This idea of legacy, again, because when people die, for the most part, usually they cannot continue to do things because they are dead and physically not around and physically unable to move. And so I think, you know, what's so interesting about wills in general, I think about wills a

lot, because for some reason, one of my friends has put me in charge of like defending hers, I think about Wills a lot because for some reason, one of my friends has put me in charge of like defending hers, but thankfully she's getting married soon. So that might change. But usually the thing about like Wills, they have this great name and it's about being about intention, right?

Your will, what you ordain, what you desire. And it's, I think our way to hope that in our deaths, we can exert some sort of control over what happens afterwards. Again, something of a legacy, and all of that plays into what this chapter is about, talking about all these dead bodies and

what happens after. And I think that it's really important, again, that the will comes up in Catelyn's chapter, not just because of the plot, and like, of course it has weight in terms of her personal conflict regarding how she feels about john you know the human heart in conflict with itself slash my son's heart but

you know lady stoneheart very much exists as this you know fascinating she's she's a very literal embodiment of a will of how to keep exerting power over the situation after you die because catelyn is dead right but lady stoneheart carries out that desire the hunger for vengeance and so i also wonder then with catelyn's will you know supposedly she's doing all of these actions seeking it in service of her son's memory and to avenge him would her will maybe counter his though again she might be gone from the story by then and my two cents is that she'll probably be dedicated to rob's will meaning his wishes uh which like you said eloquently much more eloquently than me here uh this actually his actual will so you know she has

the crown already i think there's a good chance that she's actually collecting her son's legacy which might include among other things his crown his wife his will you know i think she's kind of gonna collect it all at river run and we'll see what happens next so yeah i think she's kind of going to collect it all at River Run and we'll see what happens next. So, yeah, I think she'll even though it goes against what she might have felt in life, I think that her her extreme focus on Rob, the manner of his death and her children and all of this, their their legacy, I think, is going to lead her to be really focused on Rob's wishes, not so much her own personal wishes or their conflicts that they had. I mean, I definitely love the idea of Mage being at the wall with this news, whether it's a document. I've heard people suggest copies, you know, who knows?

They could have had multiple copies of it. They often did make multiple copies in order to, know think about stannis's letter which he sent in triplicate to 500 people so basically i just see all those signatories as highly significant they're going to be spreading the word among the stark faithful they're like preachers going out on the road with their gospel whether it's an actual piece of paper or just something that they they know about well and there's something interesting right we know they have false paperwork with them so i'm almost curious what if something of that false paperwork gets out right like what if that gets taken and gets taken as word for something instead of the will and there is also something

interesting we talked about the king's prize earlier and you mentioned as well mage has contacted aliceane and maybe this is an aspect of george's gardening right we always love to put that one out there however jory jor-el and lyra weren weren't with Mage that we know of in the beginning of the books. So that Alysanne says, my sisters are with Mage, my sisters are with my mother, that means that they either had to join her or she joined them and got them. So one way or another. So she might have been home already when we're thinking about where Mage has been moving on the map. She might have already gone home at some point um on the move we obviously know bear island's not really being affected affected not

up front close and personal right now by the boltons or anything so who knows maybe they had a quick dine and dash home to get the other kids and get out of there maybe she was there saying, Liana, just write this. Bear Island knows no king. It's just like we practiced, Liana, ready? Just like we practiced. Now sign it with your name. No, not my name. Your name. Yeah. Good. I was never here.

I like that. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a lot there. There's a lot there with that will and who knows if she actually has well you know i do think one of the major points for stoneheart's character i think there's such a link with aria as we've more than overly discussed we've beat that horse to death but i also think there is something in it that lady stoneheart might not want to propagate that part of rob's will she may not be a supporter of that part of Rob's will.

And as Eliana mentioned, maybe she's collecting his legacy and trying to keep it intact. Very Thetis, you know. And it also makes me think maybe that's part of Stoneheart's arc is coming to terms with John being that part of the will. Find it in her heart to forgive as ned had once prayed and hoped before she died eyes before nine out of nine lives imagine if she found that in her stone heart oh my god irony somewhere irony uh my god real lord wrong god wrong god I only like the tree ones sorry

I was raised in the seven and let me just tell you it's a lot of smoke and mirrors you know you think R'hllor is smoke and mirrors well I think we've done her ladies I think we did it I think we exercised Catalan 5 Lady Gwyn thank you so much for joining us for catalan five in a storm of swords please tell us where we can find you

out there on the internet all the stuff you're doing go ahead it's your spot take it well thank you so much for having me you guys know how much i love cal, so I'm very pleased and honored. You know, I was very excited as soon as I heard you were doing Cat. I reached out. I was like, let me know, please. Any little piece that I can be a part of this. So thank you for having me. So find me and my partner, who is also my podcasting partner and my life partner yoke boy at radio westeros radio westeros.com is a good place to start to access all of our content and lots of

other links to things find us on youtube and itunes wherever you find your fine podcasts we have a patreon and all that stuff can be found on our website. So do check it out. Especially as I said at the top of the episode, we've just concluded our Winds of Winter Primer series, which has been

10 episodes recapping everything that was happening at the end of A Dance with Dragons in the sample chapters so and you guys were part of that with us each came and did one of our live streams in association with that project so thank you for that that's it check it out if you haven't i hope you enjoy it and i've really enjoyed being here with you oh well we can't wait to have you back thank you so much again for coming yeah thank you you're welcome yeah thank you very much for coming and telling us you know

like about the stark history and what might be the stark future love it well as always you can find us on a podcasting platform streaming near you such as as Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Acast, Amazon Podcasts, Pandora. I'm missing one. You know the drill. Why did we switch? I used to do the listing. I don't know what's happened recently.

I don't know. You're like, but I regret it. I do. I regret it every what's happened recently. I don't know. You're like, but I regret it. I do. I regret it every day. I do. Well, I'm here to tell you all that maybe you also might have questions, same as I do. And if you do, you are welcome to send them to girlsgonecanon, C-A-N-O-N, at gmail.com.

Or perhaps you would like to send us a tweet or a dm on twitter which did not go down today um you can find us at girls gone canon and if that doesn't suffice for you head on over to our patreon patreon.com slash girls gone canon where patrons in the stranger tier and above get a very special bonus episode every single month last month's bonus episode was rob stark's pov the ultimate robisode where we talked about everything and anything from rob's point of view and this coming month we'll be talking about some spooky creatures in his dark materials and of course again we have a discord available to patrons in the Thunder tier and above. And we will be hosting our Discord brunch slash happy hour on October 30th.

And, you know, it's just going to be like Halloween themed and stuff. You know, come get ready to... Is it Halloween themed? Yeah, I mean, it's Halloween themed. I mean, it's... I mean, it's Halloween, all right? It's basically Halloween. It's basically Halloween. So we're going to be spooky.

Come hang out. It's going to be a blast. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thank you again to this episode's other other hosts. Thank you. Other another.