Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 142 - ASOS Catelyn VII featuring Alex (parralex0889)

Episode Date: October 22, 2021

Not my hair... You know the rest of the line. It's the iconic, ultimate Catelyn chapter. The fulcrum upon which the rest of the story turns. Alex (aka parralex0889) joins us to talk about Cat's character—past, the brief present, and the future—as we wrap up this POV. Find Alex online at parralex0889 Alex's Twitter — https://twitter.com/parralex0889   Sound credits: Intro by Anton Langhage Background music composed by Ramin Djawadi for HBO's Game of Thrones, "A Lannister Always Pays His Debts" Knife sound effects from Soundfishing — https://www.soundfishing.eu/ Bell sound effects from ZapSplat — https://www.zapsplat.com/ --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire, episode 142, Catalan 7, In a Storm of Swords, featuring one of our very good friends, Alex. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, so excited. I know that we have hinted and foreshadowed at this guesting happening, but here it is, the payoff I was

away in Winterfell I went north when you all went east so it's been a while I had to backtrack a little bit yeah yeah yeah dark wings dark words you know just missing them all we're so glad to have you here as our companion for this because

A. Cattle and Tully Stark, B, you, and C, I'm really gonna be sad. And who better to say goodbye to Catelyn with than you? So tell everyone where they can find you on the internet. And tell us what's going on with you lately. Hello, everyone. My name is Alex. i use they them pronouns and i'm so excited to be a girl gone canon or they gone canon whichever you can find me on the interwebs lurking around mostly parallax p-a-r-r-a-l-e-x 0889 on your twitters and such a happy member of the ggc discord yelling with the girls about the things just having a good gale time as we as we sometimes ignore all the things y'all say in favor of our own interpretations but you know um so yeah

i'm super excited to be here kat became one of my favorite characters in the series and just seeing what her role is and like the way the fandom discusses her. I was actively emailing you all throughout the year about certain things and just really happy to be able to close out this chapter or this cat-ter, but not the last. There's nine lives. Fired.

My first fired, cool. I think I was like, what, a minute in? Nice new record, new record. It's okay, I'm HR HR now I'm HR today and I can protect your employment thank you I don't know if that's what HR even does HR doesn't protect anyone anyway

well yes and all those emails we are going to see the culmination of some of those thoughts. I think I'm excited to see that manifest here today. I've had some hot takes, some silly takes, some great takes. They're all great. They are all great. And I mean, like, you know, we need hot takes here because how else are we going to bring Kat back without that?

We need the fire. We need the fire. The fire of R' of relore that flame getting fired i think that's truly yeah you're getting fired so i mean i think you've already brought the flame within your first several minutes but eliana's here to resurrect you as she said as she said she's hr apparently interesting Interesting role. I'll be considering my own role. Maybe this is some succession shit, but I will be considering my own role in the company. Eliana, you'll be hearing from my cat lawyers.

Well, I'm glad that Alex is here as our witness for my cat lawyers, but let's do some housekeeping real quick before we get into the episode first things first patreon episode this month for our stranger tier and above patrons is going to be about the creatures and spirits and his dark materials i'm so excited if you didn't know we cover his dark materials the main trilogy we are in the amber spyglass we are getting in the middle of things we are past the halfway point come hang out and listen to that check out that series but this episode will yeah that's sad too there's a lot of sad it gets sadder it all gets sadder eliana what do you want it's a sad time of the year it is actually it is a sad time of the year all the daylight's fading you You know, we are going from

summer into autumn into winter and winter's coming. When? And yeah. So we do also cover His Dark Materials and next week will be something like, I guess, the last week of October

it will be our coverage of His Dark Materials The Amber Spyglass. But as Chloe said said we cover the main series but we also do have our coverage of la belle sauvage one of the the prequel books out there if people want to check that out and yeah along with our bonus episodes every month patrons do also if you are a patron in the thunder tier or above have access to the Discord, as Alex has wonderfully already plugged. I'm trying to get asked back, okay? So I'm a shill.

I'll be a corporate shill. Have me back. Have me back. No, I'm so happy you're here to shill for us on this, Alex. Thank you. Yes, being a Patreon subscriber to Girls Got Candidate has really improved my life in so many ways. Let's count the benefits.

Oh my god, ten ways. We did not ask Alex to shout a word. We don't have Alex at knife point or anything, all right? Alex is not bargaining for their life right now. No O's, no O's. God. alex is no oh god um well no we are having a really fun scary creepy crawly there's not really going to be anything scary it's going to be ridiculous a ludicrous brunch this month on october 30th we do brunch slash happy hour with patrons in the thunder tier and above at our

discord we do games giveaways get to know yous, and this month is gonna be a Halloween party, right? And I'm very pro-costume. I'm very like, I hope you're gonna dress up. I can't mandate it, you know? Works, some works are like, no Halloween. I'm just gonna say I'm very pro-Halloween on the old Discord. Yeah, I'm just pro-Halloween. I remember Discord. Yeah. I'm just pro-Halloween. I remember one time people were like, yeah, people totally dress up for Halloween at work. And then I showed up dressed up.

This was the year that you and I, somehow without even knowing each other, both dressed up as Louise from Bob's Burgers. Oh, yes, yes. And it was just fucking me in a costume. And I was like, great. Thanks, everyone. Just tugging off the ears, you know,

hiding them behind your back. Oh, this is good. No, I just love it. It reminds me of, God, what was it? Someone was dressed up as Spider-Man in some sitcom. Was it Dan Egan? No, I'm making this up. Anyways, maybe there's one. I just don't remember what it was. I've

been watching a lot of sitcoms lately. I mean, Halloween is a very important gay holiday and i know the girls and gays and days gone canon are probably looking forward to it we haven't discussed this but i just assumed through like the gay network that you know somebody might turn a look or two the gaywood.net yeah the gay network you know yeah well I think dressing up is optimal. You know, it's preferred. Yeah. So come to have fun.

And you don't ever have to have your webcam on during these, but it is fun. It's a fun time. And it'll be from 1 to 3 p.m. Eliana time, you know, Eastern time. Oh, my God. So jot that down, Eastern time. It'll be 1 to 3 p.m. So your evening plans don't have to be interrupted, and I think

there's a couple treats and tricks that are gonna be up for grabs. Here's the leg of lamb. Here's the leg of lamb portion of what I have brought all of you, and it is... Oh, it's juicy. It is juicy. It is the moment

many of you have been waiting for. Our next POV. Should we let Alex do the honors or no? Alex. I think you're very honorable like this next POV, Alex. So what do you think? Could you tell us what the next POV is? Can you announce it?

The next POV that GGC is covering. Blonde. Eyes that are not brown, spends time in King's Landing, has a lion sigil item on their person. The only word, Alex yelled. The next POV is Brienne of Tarth, the Mane of Tarth, the Blue Knight of Renly's Rainbow Guard. After I took some time to emotionally recover, I was very excited. I found my excitement because I do really enjoy Brienne as a POV. Definitely, she does make a lot of sense following Kat for just these themes of duty and your place in this world. So I'm really looking forward to see what you all just make of it so yeah the next pov is

brienne so bring me shippers if you're out there you might have some more jamie interactions coming up i don't know who knows some morsels some morsels are in your morsels yeah some sprinkles and then i hear that there might even be an intersection with our present POV. Perhaps somehow. May it work its way in. Who knows? Time will tell. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Someone's wandering around the Riverlands doing that. I don't know. I don't know, though. We'll see. I think that will be so fun. For a second, I thought Alex was going to red wedding this announcement. I thought about it, but Chloe called on my honor, and then on my honor as a Tully fan, on my honor as a Stark fan. I couldn't do it, but the moon's eye plan is still in place.

I might still try to subtly work in cersei as the next pov we'll see we'll see we're workshopping things we're workshopping things do you even need like that intricate do you even need need like all of that you could just pull like one of the sheringans right actually if i could just go in the dock right now and just write in cersei it has to happen right like that's how it works mayhaps oh my gosh you said mayhaps in the intro I'm a bad fray which is actually a good thing

so I'm excited I'm excited that I'm a bad fray well I'm afraid I thought I had something there but not quick on my feet like that. Yeah, I'm really excited for Brienne, though. I am a noted Brienne-chill myself. I really do favor Brienne. And we have some really exciting guests.

We have a handful of guests coming on for Brienne that I know we're going to get hyped about. But our first episode for Brienne, just to tide you over with even more morsels, especially for the Cersei clan here that didn't get quite their wishes, you know, but it'll come for you one day. Your princess will come. Hair grows back and so does Cersei as a POV. Yeah. I'm sorry that we let you down. I know there were some people thought there were hints.

They thought they saw red flags. They Cassandred it. There's still hope for you. But the Morse is for now. There was a Ciceris of Cersei. A Ciceris of Cersei. A Ciceris of Cersei. Oh god. We tried to just incorporate that because we knew we were going to let people down.

We tried to incorporate a lot of that and just sprinkle it in. Oh, it was masterful. Y'all dicking us over for how many ever weeks. It was great. Because it was just like, man, so many Cersei mentions. Like, the parallels are paralleling. Like, this is going to be so good. And then, you know, the boom, boom, boom of the drums.

We tried to give you something to tide y'all over. Yeah, we tried to give you something to tie y'all over yeah we tried but you know i'm excited because our first brianne episode back to back we're gonna have another friend and patron shiloh carol author of medievalism in a song of ice and fire in game of thrones and the woman fantastic in contemporary american media culture on to talk about Brienne, to introduce Brienne to the world, to the to the can world. We're canonizing it. So I'm excited to have Shiloh on. It's going to be just two back to back great A Song of Ice and Fire episodes with Alex today and Shiloh then. I will keep the another one of your guest host seat worn for you Shiloh can't wait to see what you do and so before then let's talk a little bit about our emails and tweets of note we saved this one

you know because we wanted to make sure that we we got it in here more towards the end and we got a message from our friend Bela Breakwind saying, Hey fam, I finally caught up to the most recent episode and had a quick thought regarding Jane Westerling and her multiple and tearful goodbyes to Rob. We're being attacked right at the start of this message. As we all know, Jane's great-grandmother is Maggie the Frog aka the Woods Witch from the East with the ability to foretell futures. Do you think it's possible that Jane foresaw tragedy at the Twins before Rob and company had even left? I'm unsure if the familial connection between Jane and Maggie is

some forgotten gardening, or if it will mean something come the winds of winter, but regardless, I thought it was worth pointing out. I'd love to see what you all think. I really love this. And I guess I might not have been thinking outside of the box, right? So like reading this made me think outside of the box. And there's a lot in that, right? Like thinking of Maggie the Frog and the prophetic connections and that bloodline being magical and i'm no bloodline magic fantasy expert i just like what i like you know i give what i can here i do what i can in the face of what i got yeah but you know there's a lot of theorizing on the internet that goes around about like the Blackwood and Targaryen line like Brynden Rivers with a Blackwood mother and a Targaryen father Blackwood

Starks right the the Blackwoods used to live in the Wolfswood so there's possible magic blood there and also the Wendt line Alex and I were just talking about through the Tullys right like even back to Danielle Loth's did and how Sansaa and catalan and some of these characters from that line are looked at yeah it seems that in like george's kind of cast of characters he does really like the idea of just like there's just magic inherent in certain bloodlines and yeah when you brought up the maggie the frog connection i mean i'd kind of just forgotten about it just that that westerling connection there but what if you know again like there was you know it skipped a generation and she had a her first awakening or whatever um i did guess that it was

through contact with rob the the magic stark sperm awakened something in her and i don't know we'll see we'll see if that comes to pass but whatever but but yeah this it's it's kind of it's just consistent in the world building that certain bloodlines certain families especially they they have these dreams these prophecies these uh forewarnings of whatnot so i definitely think if you're not looking closely you could just think jane she's sad she's young she wants to be with rob that's why she keeps going after them but what if there's something else a little bit there so yeah i i wonder because jane is one of the people that we guess we might see in the prologue of wins if maybe there'll be something more concrete there i think that could be really interesting you know maybe she wakes up from a dream and I don't know.

It would also explain a lot of her, like that really fierce loyalty we see Jane exhibit in Rob even after his death in Jamie's POV, right? Looking all the way back to those chapters so long ago when they occurred. But there's almost something to that like she's very willful right which is almost i mean think of liana and rhaegar and how willful liana was to run away with rhaegar the idea of prophecy with rhaegar right and that he probably had some prophecies guiding him especially some contact with his uncle, Eamon. Thinking of those kind of magical connections that run in those lines and those prophecies, I could see that for Jane,

like those chestnut curls and her being the young queen of the rebellion and her maybe having some prophetic visions or connection with those visions. That could be a thing. I like it. I like it as a theory. I'm hungry for theories. I'm hungry for it as a theory i'm hungry for theories i'm

hungry for a swath i'm hungry for eating i want to eat good so bad i want tea wow so i like it until i get a pov that shows me it yeah it adds a certain even more tragic element to jane and rob right like if jane did have prophecies if she did kind of, cause they only knew each other for a short in world time. But again, if she had these prophecies, she had these dreams. If she just had this magical connection to know Rob more intimately than the intimacy they did know,

um, that could be why she was just so attached to him and wanting to stay by his side. Yeah. And when you think about like the baby being made out of these connections too right like you think of the stark magical bloodline coming together and even like if they made a baby that could be a magical baby but what we do have is edmure with that went bloodline still with roslyn right so who knows maybe they could have a little

seer puppy themselves guppy seer guppy seer guppy the all-seeing fish because you have like went well on the Edmure side he doesn't have the Stark side but you do have that went connection and then on the Jane side her child would would have Wint, Stark as well. So, yeah, I mean, there's magic in the air. Wow. You could really have some powerhouses, you know, like those two cousins could grow up if they happen. This is a what if. Oh, my God.

This is our Marvel what if A-Swap episode. But that child and that child could grow up join their houses but generis would happen wait just keep with me i'm so sorry for who i am but uh generis could then happen and have their boat baby child finally right and that child and one of the children would fall in love and break the pact and that would be rebellion 3.0 baby yeah i wrote the trilogy sequel series so you're all welcome so another 16 books a bunch of brunches oh jesus isn't that just the kettle calling the kettle black wait all right i love that email thank you bay Breakwind, over on Twitter for sending us that. That was a fun thought.

I'm like a noted hater of what if scenarios. I feel like we've talked about this in the past, but I'm a noted hater. I just feel like it's just such a waste of time. I'm actually very stannous about it. I know y'all think that I'm the worst for hating him but i'm actually him maybe that explains it right because i'm out here like what if there's no what if there's only reality proud wing and i've got one one if that i want to float because i do feel george is kind of i can work it into the uh into the later, but I do feel you on that.

Like, what if it's kind of going in the direction of Crack Ship where it's like it might give you an interesting lens on something that you haven't thought about before. But ultimately, it's just like more of a fan exercise than like a text analysis reaction. And so, yeah, I do see you on that. And so, yeah, I do see you on that. I do think there's this one kind of through line that George weaves in through the cat POV to kind of hint at his own internal what if, which just doesn't come to manifest or yet. So spoilers, keep listening. Okay. That's foreshadowing. What is the what if?

I was waiting for the what if. Oh, not yet, Eliana. You have to wait. You got to wait. You have to subscribe to the GGC Patreon, and then you can unlock the spoilers at the beginning of the episode. Oh, my God. That have to wait. You gotta wait. You have to subscribe to the GGC Patreon, and then you can unlock the spoilers at the beginning of the episode. Oh my god.

That's one of the perks I get. Have I not? Alex is now behind the paywall. In my life. Yeah. Wow. We're being red wedding here. You have one red wedding paywall visit

available to you. But you do like works, you know, secretly taking it all over because the frees don't. That's true. Yeah. That's true. Well, Alex, we are so glad to talk about magic with you. And now we get to talk about some further magic.

We're going to do a lightning round. You know the lightning rounds. You know what I'm talking about. I may have brought my umbrella. I'm familiar, but. Wow. Your raincoat, your umbrella, your galoshes. Yes, yes, yes.

Galoshes. Okay. Fashion. Fashion, fashion, fashion. Fashion. Good. Well, we're going to rain down on you with this lightning round. And first, we'll start with Aria 10.

Aria and Sandor arrive at and flee from the twins where something has gone terribly, horribly, awfully, dismayingly wrong. And that brings us to the Cat 7 overview. We're going to a wedding, y'all. It's going to be great. No problems. We're going to have a wedding, then go fight the Ironborn, and then peace Stark Riverland Eternia. Oh, no. We're going home.

That's a project. We're going home. Well, yeah, so let's do it let's start that journey the chapter opens the drums were pounding pounding pounding and her head with them pipes wailed and flutes trilled from the musician's gallery at the foot of the hall f Fiddles screeched, horns blew. The skin scurred a lively tune, but the drumming drove them all. The sounds echoed off the rafters. Whilst the guests ate, drank,

and shouted at one another below. Walder Frey must be deaf as a stone to call this music. Stone ears? Stone ears, oh. Stone ears? Stone ears. Oh. Stone heart? Stone heart when? Stone ears, foreshadow it.

Stone ears, what else do we got? Yeah. Grace Gale when? Obviously, you know, these are amongst the most iconic of the chapter openings, not least because of what is going to happen in this chapter. And I just love what? Nothing, nothing bad happens. Don't worry, it's gonna be fun.

I love how George uses repetition throughout this book to really just show that, you know, things are not going well, right? Here we have that pounding used over and over again to convey that sense of noise. It also becomes like a sort of onomatopoeia in it of itself and shows that things are amiss and it reminds me a little of sam one a storm of swords of sobbing sam took another step and how that gets repeated throughout the opening of that chapter and besides all of that the other language right is showing us how terrible the music is and that emphasis on the drumming and how it drives everything serves as a signal of what's to come right not only are we like you like uh-huh weird that the music is so bad because turns out

they don't they're not musicians they're just archers but it's also i think showing us how yeah caitlin says that weddings are not battles which debatable because if i'm not mistaken i think it was cersei who described her marriage as one um might have been someone else but also this isn't really battle it is more of a slaughter but the drums give that same sense of of foreboding violence regardless right it's what you hear when you're on the battlefield getting you amped to fight and how you send out i guess orders allegedly i'm not a yeah i'm not a soldier i think that's that outline and like that thought there's something as we go along especially with the music right like the music especially because

the music's awful like there's no good beat going on up there as we're about to learn uh there's no good beat going on anywhere in this building but i's avant-garde. Avant-garde. But when you think about, especially with George's background, right, how he loves screenplay and he wrote for TV for so much, that's all he wanted, right? Like, all he wanted was TV writing. And then he was like,

fine, I'll just be an epic fantasy writer instead. Then sell it to TV. So there's our problems. There's a rhythm, right right like you you hear it and if this was on tv not in game of thrones like a different version of game of thrones an alternate what if universe you can almost hear the heartbeat to the drum right like just cat yeah you're in her mind you're watching things around you and the drum is the same thing as her heartbeat which is like facilitating the blood pumping as she's thinking and the thoughts are filling her head and she's just like conceiving perceiving

and she's dissociating right like yes girl get it. To everything going on around her. It's so much. Yeah, like the... It's exhausting. The sensory details are just phenomenal in this, right? And especially if we come back to like the pounding, you can just think about like when you're afraid, you can hear your blood pounding in your ears and she's talking about the pounding in her head.

So you really do get the sense that regardless of what else is poorly happening around her, that the real drumming is like in her head. There's just this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. As again, like you mentioned, like you just said, like she's perceiving so much. And that idea of it being her heartbeat that would come so through before her stone heart stops beating. But I do want to point out, you know, you were talking about how George ended up writing for TV, but this wasn't on TV. It's HBO.

Oh my god. It's an experience. Better than TV. It's not TV. It's HBO. You know what else was not on TV was Jingle Bell dancing to a very poor rendition of the song Alice San.

Yes, like the cat, like the queen. Well, rain falls outside of the twins. Catelyn's watching that and outside it's cold, but inside there's a fire roaring and the heat of the bodies is coming from the wedding guests as well who are packed in like sardines cat is between ryman and ruse and had smelled both of them ryman drank by the barrel and sweated it out he bathed in lemon water which was apparent but no lemon could mask that scent thinks cat ruse was sweeter but no more pleasant he drinks hypocris in preference to mead, and he eats only little. Very smart, that ruse. Catelyn, in full, notices their scents, and it reminds me a lot of Sansa when she thought about Lady,

and how Lady could smell out a lie, but now she can't. And I know Catelyn's not directly connected with the wolves, though she seems to be, right? Especially with Summer, when we think about her and Bran and Summer, and Summer and her having that fierce protection of Bran and understanding with each other. But Lady could smell out a lie, and Catelyn notices their sense, and she almost smells out their lie, right? Almost. Yeah, and then specifically about the wolves wolves she did have those couple moments with

gray wind right like she was able to be closer to gray wind than she was with rob which kind of just makes even the more sad in the last couple of chapters where gray wind is just more standing for rob's aggression so gray winds against her but yeah that that cat wolf connection has definitely been something there and then something that i wrote that I just wanted to just introduce here, because it was something that I wasn't aware of until kind of mid my song of ice and fire fan life. But roost cat as a ship and a lot of the roost cat moments. Well,

I mean, they only interact a few times. So most of them are happening here with just, you know, roost smells sweeter, but he's no more pleasant. And one of the tenants of ruse cat that i've seen is saying that ruse cat is this and this isn't the one if i was talking

about earlier but if cat was going down this path of being towards more vengeance that didn't lead to stoneheart so if she had somehow survived the red wedding as was the plan would she and ruse have some sort of alliance would her own kind of more bloodthirsty ways be attractive to him if he could have attraction and wasn't just like some weird vampire man? But yeah, like little seeds of RooseCat. I'm not gonna say sprinkled here because it's not gonna happen, but just the Roose-Catelyn interactions that even made it to the reverse adaptation of the show that these books are based off of um ruse cat was always just kind of like an interesting pairing the tension it is an interesting idea

right like on one hand i thought you were gonna say that people put it forward in terms of like a hate fuck which very very pro hate fucks on this podcast but i think it makes sense like what you're saying because i think there are like similarities, especially in terms of where Kat's story goes, right? The way that they speak so quietly and silently and that Kat suddenly becomes so very quiet and this sort of undead aspect running between the way both of them are written for,

for Roos, it's more literary, but for Kat, it's more trauma enforced. Yeah. And literal by the end, but yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. Yeah. No, no, I mean ruse cat definitely could be a hate fuck shit

But then also just like in like this exploration of cats character growth change to where she does have some of these more qualities and then ruse himself is Very much thought of as like an anti Ned figure because on the outside, you know, they both seem so cold, so northern. But whereas Ned does have a heart and, you know, is actually a caring person and Roose is the Roose. So. So, yeah, just this kind of like, again, this crack ship, this what if. But yeah, just seeing like if because again we do know that cat was supposed to survive the red wedding so like what was the plan was she gonna just stay

at the twins was she supposed to go up north and then when i was talking to rowan i was like what if there's just like some scenario where like bruce is just again playing some ridiculous game because bruce plays games with people where he like obfuscates his role in the red wedding and then kind of comes to cat's like i'll get you back north and you know then cat's part of his like i'm gonna use her to uh tighten my grip on the north right because i have the they couldn't go with the aria planet that but you know that could be like part of that ploy right so it's like i could either have the fake daughter or i could have the real mother so again this is a crack ship a slight what if but i do think these interactions

i i think these character beats are more than just to kind of make it more personal but maybe just a way to show just like there's this element of chance about the red wedding specifically and ruse's kind of role as a political person on here that's always just like hey i'm just kind of keeping these options open like maybe and also it makes a parallel then between him and ramsay in a way right that he's maybe like lady hornwooding yeah yeah and using using that uh claim yeah yeah yeah uh yeah like sansa right like a claim like sansas for once that could be used that could be definitely be exploited there first hot take of the day roost cat roost cat interesting interesting no i like it there's a tension there's a chilling tension it could be a weird

scared horrible time it could be very much like the ruse teaches cat how to be evil, right? Like, you know, let me show you the ways of the dog. Corruption kink. Corruption kink, they call it. Interesting. I see you. Okay. I will say the line about ruse smelling sweet did stand out because it reminded me also of uh there was an analysis that was really good a few

years ago on our swath uh talking about how sweetness is used and that sweetness is sort of associated with death right because from the rose yeah a cloying sweetness the sweetness of the rose the blue rose growing from the wall and then also that taiwan's body as it's rotting is kind of described as like sickly sweet if i'm not mistaken so and how it becomes associated with circe the sentence seneschal yeah yes and the other guy on this associated with sweet yeah yeah sweet literally sweet the uh the flavor yeah yeah that's interesting Yep. Sweet. Literally sweet. The flavor. Yeah. That's interesting. That's really interesting. Alright, so because

this isn't a Song of Ice and Fire podcast, but also our podcast. A food podcast. Yeah. This is part of the Food Network podcast. No. A Song of ice and fire.

We're going to talk about, yeah, the food, of course, which starts out with a thin leek soup, which leek soups can be good, but apparently this one was not. A salad of green beans, onions, and beets, which I feel like those could be good if you added some leaves in there, but just those together. I'm like, that's weird. I see why that was weird. And also the river pike poached in almond milk. And then the mounds of cold mashed turnips, the jellied calves brains. And then we get what's called a lesh of stringy beef. And that was really difficult to understand.

Because I know the word lesh, spelled that way, as leche meaning milk in Spanish but that is not what this was. Apparently leche just means a sliver or a slice. So it's a slice of stringy beef. Yeah. It's not good, right? Like, calves brains,

stringy beef. It's not the best. They've given us better. George has given us better. I mean, Kat does say this is insulting fare to put before a king, right? They're telegraphing hard. They are telegraphing hard. Yeah.

It is hard because she underlines every single event. She's like, oh, that was an insult. Oh, that was an insult. But there's no exit. This is an Ikea baby and a hell Ikea, you know? This is like one way out, death. You think they're just being insulting, right? Because of the pride thing.

But turns out it's because they just like didn't want to spend money. Why spend money on the guests who are going to die? You know, what's the point? They're not going to remember it. Because they'll be dead don't don't bring out the good casks no no no don't bring the good casks out now oh but lady stoneheart is like me like she remembers right she don't speak but she drinks no i'm just kidding she drinks and she drinks and she remembers things she drinks and she remembers things. She drinks and she remembers things. Yo, that's a shirt idea.

Alex, that is a straight up idea. I paraphrase Tyrion. Ew, I feel icky. But like with some skeleton hands on the boobs. Okay, now I'm on board. That's a shirt idea. Now I'm on board. Anyways, our people, aka the cats, will be talking to your people, aka you.

Ooh, a turtleneck. An ace waft turtleneck. I.a. the cats, will be talking to your people, a.k.a. you. Ooh, a turtleneck, an ace-swap turtleneck. I feel it. You can have a bejeweled line here along the neck, or red beads along here. Actually, this is a really good idea. This is actually starting to become a really good idea. When you edit this, Eliana...

Girls got merch? Take it out. We gotta take it out so no one steals my Simone Rocha stolen idea. Okay. Well, besides Catelyn knowing this food is garbage, Rob eats it uncomplaining like he swore he would. And Edmure is too busy with his bride stealing kisses to care about food. with his bride, stealing kisses to care about food. Catelyn thinks. You would never guess Edmure complained of Roslyn all the way from Riverrun to the twins. Husband and wife ate from a single plate, drank from a single cup, exchanged chaste kisses between sips. Most of the dishes

Edmure waved away. She could not blame him for that. She remembered very little of the food served at her own wedding feast. Did I even taste it? Or spend the whole time gazing at Ned's face, wondering who he was? Poor Rosalind's smile had a fixed quality to it, as if someone had sewn it onto her face. Well, she's a maid well, but the bedding's yet to come. No doubt she's as terrified as I was. wedding prep like that that's something to think about but i did want to talk about the sibling dynamic as i see house tully just again because we we do talk about it the girls gone canon patreon supporters in the discord a lot about just like sibling dynamics and what we see there and i do think this is just a really interesting part of the uh of the five book series that we get because as i was like thinking about this like house tully is one of the uh of the five book series that we get because as i was like thinking about this like

house tully is one of the most prominently featured houses that we interact with you know like at times they're third or fourth most prominent and like river one itself is a place that we do spend a lot of time in but like this sibling dynamic between kat edmure and liza i do think it's both in series and in fandom kind of underserved or underlooked at. And during the Kat's POV, she interacts with both of her siblings. And just for context sakes, like I'm an eldest of three siblings, so I'm naturally predisposed to take Kat's position in this. And I do see a lot of that in her interactions as being the eldest but there's just such an interesting way that both edmure and liza interact with cat that just is just rife of just like siblingisms and

and how they interact and that just kind of constant it seems like they're both in the present but always in the past with each other where it's like well i i'm lord of uh river one now and there's like no you're not because that's still alive. So you still have to do what I say because I'm older than you. It's like, well, not for long. And then Liza herself is just very much like on Cat's side in some moments, but just turning against her, just like that precarious nature of siblings. And something that I'm like, sadly hopeful for in like a kind of morbid way is i do really

want to get edmure talking about his sisters and tiwau because from his perspective in a couple of months he loses his dad eldest sister and older sister and i mean i i guess liza's death would eventually kind of become known to the realm but again again, it's like, what the fuck does Edmure think about this? Right. Like that's three very important people to you, like all murder. Well, Hoster died naturally. But again, like, you know, three very important people died. And obviously, when we do interact with him afterwards, you know, he has other things

to think about. So that's why I'm hoping if we do get at least a couple of scenes with edmure and t wow that he talks about this because something that as a cat stand i've always been very particular about is just like i do feel that cat is kind of just overlooked in the greater context of the series and so i'm really wanting to see like her last surviving sibling remember her or think about her and and liza too because as much as liza does fuck over cat and by extension edmure they're still siblings and sibling relationships especially as adults can certainly be tense and difficult because you're all trying to be your own people but you know each other too well and you also know each other

when you weren't those people so it's this like game of like i see this person that you're wanting to be right now but i also remember when you weren't that person and i feel like with the tully siblings it's always there because the lannister siblings kind of always stay in that childish dynamic they'll never really kind of interact with people as adults but i do feel that the tully siblings do try to see each other as adults but then it's just like i'm the better adult because you know i'm the eldest or well i'm the lady here or i'm the lord here so you may be my older sister but you know remember whose house you're in because i get a lot of that from lies and edmure when kat interacts with them and kat from her perspective just like i don't care where we are.

Like, I'm still your older brother or your older sister. So, yeah, this sibling dynamic is really interesting to me. Just to see that be a constant through the series. Because, again, we spend time with Kat and Liza. We spend time with Kat and Edmure. But it doesn't really... I don't see it explored as much as I do the Baratheon brother dynamic or the Lannister dynamic or the Starklings.

That's really interesting. And I think what you're saying about how is it going to show up in Edmure, because like you said, right, it's a lot of trauma that has just been suddenly thrust into his story after he has been sort of cherished as not only the youngest right but also the son after so many years and yet as you're saying not only is cat the eldest in many ways i wonder if her siblings resented like she was the perfect golden child right she did everything dad said yeah and but also edmure it would be interesting as well now that there's a possibility that edmure is a parent right right? What would he think about, like, wow, my sister died for this, and also, like, what might he think about having a child, and would we see any parallels between Edmure's perspective on parenthood with cats and that sort of ferocity and protectiveness? cats and that sort of ferocity and protectiveness that right like having that child and like his siblings dead both of his siblings are dead he's left and i think there's a feeling of that

going around for the starks that think they're alone right now right they think their entire family is dead and cat who thinks her family's dead too her children are dead that loneliness right in that isolation that each of them are feeling and as we get forward in the books and backward and forward like a little pinball machine that we are over here at girls gun cannon uh as we go forward kind of and you see feast and dance and that loneliness starts to ebb as they learn like there's whisperings right of them still living of them still existing throughout the story of the north remembering even oh god if i say it um and even for edmure the the moments

with jamie that pain right like you'll never know how much i hate you kingslayer him standing in his ancestral home you know a prisoner those feelings i hope that edmure lives i hope beyond hope he does i do hope he lives i do hope he lives there's just the one gripe i have about that and then here comes the man hater is like in that speech he talks about hoster and littlefinger like that's that's the the fuller text right? He's like, you know, my father sat here while Littlefinger and I played. And I'm just like, it's so fucking interesting that like between the four kind of kids of Riverrun, the three Tully's more think about the relationship with Littlefinger than each other.

And I'm just like, how fucking important could this kid be to y'all's childhood that you think about him more than your actual siblings? Like, again, I have two younger sisters we grew up together there was no like fourth ward or anything so that perspective is a little bit different for me but i'm just thinking just like it's just so interesting the way that like edmure thinks more about his relationship with little finger than his relationship with kat and liza and i do agree with the leo from kat's perspective i do think it's a little bit of the marcia brady syndrome like yeah cat's the fucking perfect child so like everyone's just like oh yeah well calen was better at sums well of course she fucking was she's fucking calen but whatever

uh but again it's just so interesting that they in the scenes that we get of them there's just the kind of fourth sibling little finger that maybe it was just safer for them to think about or maybe they just didn't have like that same expectation because yeah he's you know fucking little finger from nowhere so he's not i'm not gonna well he's not important but he's not as dynastically important as cat is so maybe that's why they might have spent more of their you know conscious thoughts on him than than cat who's this probably just like this monolith in their head of like the golden Tully, the golden trout, the golden trout. It's like Doran says to bring back some Doran thoughts,

like Eliana said last week, you know, and yet here I remain. They're gone and here I remain. Yeah. So that's what I'm wanting from Edmure. Not the one. Like Ned, like Ned, Nedmure. Yeah. yeah that's that's what i want from edmure just to be like the they remain or like they're they're gone and i remain because again like i mean cat died while you're fucking like you're literally fucking dude like that's that's a lot to process i could understand why

a person wouldn't want to do that. But as a cat stand, I want him to do that. Give me the pain. It would be a good exploration. It would. It would make sense for him to, yeah, not want to touch that memory. And because I think you're right. It's interesting that he thinks of Littlefinger.

It makes sense for me why Catlin and Liza do, because in many ways, Littlef finger is a sort of locus of trauma for both of them very connected to trauma in their lives but for i think he's like i don't know that was my friend peter yeah well uh now you said that edmure definitely was because we see in the other chapters right he all he often tends to hang out with his friends over his family right with like the pipers and malice's and this and that so it does make sense for me in that perspective but i still do want him to have that sibling moment because i mean fucking kevin gets one jenna gets one like all the siblings get one i want edmure to have one for kat and liza fucking danny gets one about viserys right like yeah maybe maybe it's supposed to be like a big emotional moment and we just uh you know we're

still waiting i'm just waiting a lot all the time i'm holding out a little little hope that hopefully won't get blown away like a candle in a storm ah could be like in a moment where he's talking with uh the blackfish i think that'd be good yeah yeah that would be a good like family moment to have and i think that would do good for for the blackfish because he's he's gonna die too they're all gonna die uh speaking of people who are gonna die oh i'm so sorry yep we're it's it's coming it's coming yeah you know rob gets seated during the whole main feast between alex fray and fair walda and he danced with all the girls everyone he did his duty his family duty honor and he did it hard he danced with all of them even lady fray cat wonders if wal happy, right, or if he's gonna find a reason to complain.

She tries at her table in her area to be pleasant with Ryman, complimenting his sister's dancing, and Ryman's like, they're aunts and cousins. The food's mediocre, but the booze flows heavy. The Great Johns bombed. Merritt Frey, Walder's son, matched him cup for cup wee you wee you uh sirens but whalen fray already passed out from this drinking i'm surprised that any of the frays were fucking drinking during this to be honest i know that merit is like told you have to try and get the gray john super drunk i'm like how did how did merit like hold up and like obviously the gray john holds up as we find out but anyway i just i just would not drink knowing that ahead of time i'm supposed to betray a bunch of people but you're built different yeah we are built different meaning the phrase okay we

are and i am still struck by that language about the flooding from last chapter and how the the booze this chapter it is described as flowing heavily and and once more it ends up kind of being likened to the river outside and i think again of this sort of idea of a red flood but a flood in general right and it's rising it's flowing stronger and the flood doesn't only come from rob right because i mean floods don't always get controlled like that and you get the sort of like flood archetype coming in. It covers their entire kingdom. And it ends up sort of not just washing him away, but also Tywin and Joffrey. And it clears the entire board, washes it away for what's to come and create some power vacuums in A Feast for Crows.

And, you know, that's how we end up with that meal covered in maggots that Rob really, really wanted to try. Hashtag rat king. Yes, with stewed crow. Rat cook. Maggots. Rat cook. Ew. Gross. Not what I'm into. Not my order. But it's Halloween. Not delicious.

Oh man, it's spooky. Yeah, we did actually really align this well. I'm proud of us for that. Maybe they're candied maggots. Ugh, still gross. I would do locusts, but maggots are like, I mean they're candied maggots. Still gross. I would do locusts, but maggots are like, I mean, they're dirty, you know? Not if you love it. They are.

I mean, you could. You could breed the maggots and the flies to be clean enough to eat, but that seems like a lot here. Well, that's a lot for me right now with the calves, the jellied calves and the locusts and the maggots so don't listen to the podcast while you eat even though it's a podcast about food that's a warning i'd give you all i would cat would have rathered that lord umber stay sober but there's this great line that i think is very indicative of one of your hosts and another one of your hosts that telling the Great John

not to drink was like telling him not to breathe for a few hours. And originally when I heard that quote, I wanted to volunteer and say me, but, you know, I'd like to redact that and say Eliana, 12am, Sunday, Monday morning is more applicable.

You know what? I just came too late for the party. All right? I just came too late. Unlike Greyjean Umber. You were roaring. You were roaring. Like the river outside.

You were roaring. Sussurus. A sussurus of booze. Ooh, a series. A sussurrus of booze. Ooh, a series. A susurrus of booze, yes, when the booze flows. I myself had a great John weekend of just getting a little too drunk, but wouldn't stop. Wouldn't stop. Went to like a really, because I got drunk.

And apparently one of my first thoughts was to message the discord that I was drunk and to post pictures of my drug activities. And then apparently just started sending people like very long Instagram video messages of me being like, I want to still go out, but my phone's not charged, but I think I'm still going to go out anyway. So when I soberly, not soberly, when I hung overly woke up Monday and and had like all these responses i was like fuck what did i say you were doomed you you pulled up the sleeve and the chain mail was beneath yeah you were having trying to have a gray john weekend when you are lord karstark how can you

i forgot that i was damned and sad. Oh my god. Wanted a vengeance. Oh my god. On call. That was some like, you think the Jon Snow on call was impressive. That was real impressive.

That was very impressive. Good voice work. So Rob is sitting in the table That was real impressive. That was very impressive. Good voice work. Good voice work. Thank you. So Rob is sitting in the table with Robin Flint and Small John near him. Neither of them are drinking. And Patrick, Malister, and Daisy are guarding him. They're his guard for the evening. And Catelyn thinks that a wedding feast was not a battle,

but there were always dangers when men are in their cups, and a king should never be unguarded. The sword belts are hung on- sorry, you know, there's a great plot of Odysseus coming home and slaying suitors at a wedding feast type event for Penelope, all the suitors that have come for his wife, Penelope. But before the feast, he has his son move blades that are all hanging on the wall into a closet. And he says that sometimes the blade itself incites to deeds of violence. Many fantasy authors have played with that idea from mythology. I know that Joe Abercrombie has used it in his books.

Honestly, the slaughter in the Odyssey reminds me of this in many different ways, just not the same intent. I could even see it when the Red Wedding 2.0 comes out, I could see the Odyssey and this kind of slaughter that happens in it mirroring Red Wedding 2.0 even more than this. But however that happens, this quote really struck out for me from the Odyssey. The attackers struck like eagles, crook-clawed, hook-beaked, swooping down from a mountain ridge to harry smaller birds that skim across the flatland. Cringing under the clouds,

but the eagles plunge in fury, rip their lives out, hopeless, never a chance of flight or rescue. And people loved the sport. So the attackers rooted suitors headlong down the hall, so the attackers rooted suitors headlong down the hall wheeling into the slaughter slashing left and right and grizzly screams broke from skulls cracked open the whole floor awash with blood it reminds me of ruse's strategy right we're hearing so much of ruse's strategy and rob's main strategies of enemies from behind and covering all sides of them and then forcing them into a trap. And that's what's happened to our Starks here. Yeah.

Not good. Not good at all. Things are bad. So we would put it, a bummer for all. A bummer for all. A bummer of bummers. I like this connection that you brought up because in a different way

the suitors in the Odyssey around Penelope, I think we brought this up before remind me of the suitors around Liza and but also, and I think you're going to talk about this a little more later, connections between Kat and Danny that have come up throughout this read-through, but it's a little

reminiscent as well of being at Vaast Dothrak, right? And not being permitted to bring weapons in. But I guess sword belts being on pegs isn't quite the same as, you know, not having them at all. I don't know. I think there's also a connection you can make between the suitors for Penelope for House's Frey and Bolton suiting for the positions of the Tullys and the Starks.

Oh. Interesting. To replace them, yes. Because I was also thinking of the Freys as the suitors for Rob. He's surrounded by his suitors. He's Penelope. Oh, yeah but that's yeah they're both that's both it though like it's i mean the suitors in this position are vultures

right like the suitors are literally vultures over their feast for crows over penelope penelope's undefended and this is a feast for crows this is god shit yeah i know this is a good eating for them for the moment but yeah it is for houses fray and bulgin like this is their they're taking their shot like you know like fuck both those houses but they're taking their shot they are it is a shot it is they are taking a shot the gray johns over there taking shots shots shots shots shots oh my god i bet they did play that they played that at the wedding or they tried wedding they tried to but then the great john he's like you know sig alpha wolf the line so he's just too used to it so he just out drinks them he's like this is nothing compared to rush week just

shots is playing he's singing free bird well speaking of the boltons we've got a kind of new bolton sorta who's also a fray of course we got lady walter fray bolton telling sir wendell that she thought you know what i thought ruse was gonna choose fair walda but then then Walder offered Roose his bridesmaid in silver, and then Lord Bolton chose me. And so now she's like, I'm super proud to be six stone heavier than Fair Walda. She's all like, I'm Lady Bolton now, and my cousin's still a maid, and she'll be 19 soon. Poor thing. Oh my god. The poor thing

makes me think of Sansza when she says that some similar sentiments but i'm also imagining that lady bolton now lady fray bolton probably wasn't in on it because i don't see that being necessary so she's just having a good time right she's just like girl i've got my man sorry to all you single ladies, but it's nice being married. Good luck out there. You know, maybe there's going to be a tourney or something. You can find yourself a nice little night, but I've got a lord.

So who's laughing now? It's interesting because just like Arya in the Winds of Winter, spoilers, spoilers, but you know, everyone has their role to play, right? Arya says she knows her lines you know yours and walda this is part of her role like she is deliberately put into the bedding the bedding is where she's useful so you see each of these phrase kind of start to go to their useful spot and if they're not there they're not useful to the situation yeah that's i i think that's definitely intentional i just wonder how

much of it is like because black walder and the other one that planned this like i i feel like there was a time where they were just like we want them to do this because that's what they're going to do anyway versus we need to tell this person to do this like they had to tell the dude to keep drinking but i'm sure it just seems from what we what little we do get of a lady, Frey Bolton, that she just seems to be one of the more gregarious ones anyway. So I kind of feel like she's just like kind of angle her in that right direction and she'll get there without necessarily needing to get her in on the plan. If she is on the plan, good for her. She she matches her evil husband. her she she matches her evil husband but i could also just see that being just like just making use of her gregarious nature versus planning to use her gregarious nature she has her own ambitions

right like you see these frays have their own ambitions and their own wants and like she's secured a bag she's good right now she's got her bag she doesn't want much else she doesn't want to play with this phrase succession bullshit. She's out. She's gone. And Lord Bolton's there to get his bag too, as we know. He does not take part in the chit chat at the tables. And he makes a toast at the start. And he mentions that, you know, Walder's grandsons are in his care with his son,

his bastard son, Ramsey, in the north, little and big Walder's grandsons are in his care with his son, his bastard son, Ramsey, in the north, little and big Walder. Ding, ding, ding, red flags, but he makes a big show of it. Yeah, there's... I'll have more to say about Rob's strategy and his counselors or whatever, but it just boggles the mind that there just doesn't seem to be like any thought process from Rob to like give Roos commands or orders, especially as Roos continues to like introduce information to him in the camp. Right. About like, oh, we lost these forces here. We lost those forces there. My bastards taking care of this.

They're over there now. It just seems like there's just not a scene of Rob just being like, maybe I should like take ownership of this part of like, you know, my flank or I should try to like do something to curtail these losses that I'm experiencing. Again, Rob is kind of like in free fall by that point when they get the news, but it still just seems like such a big fucking gap that there's just no like hmm it seems like everything over there is kind of going bad maybe i should call them back maybe we should you know you know call them into the office real quick come come chat with the principal

after class but yeah just yeah and then like all the like i i definitely agree with with the notes that this is like between fray and bolton just being like, hey, you know, we're betraying together, but you're not betraying me. But it's again, it just seems really interesting that there's no direct desire of Rob to directly manage Ruse. Yeah, it's not at that point. Like you said, it's a free fall. It's an absolute free fall. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, and that he comes so hard on edmure

right and he doesn't do anything to ruse and i and he i guess he's been forced into a position where he feels like he has to be very uh you know prostrating before his uh lords and vassals after what happened with the karstarks and needs like every single one that he can get but at the same time i'm like this was suspicious all of the things that roost did were suspicious all right rob it's a lot of posturing right uh roost uses this speech as a very friendly reminder he's like don't fuck me over right walder like we? Like, we have plans here. Do not betray me. And that little mention of the grandchildren is insurance. And I can imagine Walder had some ideas of killing all the Northmen.

I mean, the North is a vacuous place to store all of his different heirs. He has so many, right? Like, you know, I could just kill all of them. No monkey business, though. That's what this speech means. Bolton's like, now we're in this together, buddy. He's also got Walda, right? Yeah.

On top of all of that. And I don't think he cares if he kills her. But I will say it's a good thing for Roose that he has leverage over the phrase, but mostly just for him. Frey's but mostly just like for him because when I look at everything back like I'm just like a lot of this was such a bad deal for Walder Frey right because what he wants in a large way is respect from the other houses and that prestige and he gets none of it for doing the Lannister's dirty work he ends up getting all of the blame for everything and Roose gets what. Like, he kind of gets to hide his entire role and everything. And then he goes and he gets the North. And the Freys are still left with, like, I don't know, everyone still thinks you suck.

The sin. Yeah, they have the biggest sin on their shoulders. Well, yeah, because it happened at their house, right? Like, Roose, I think Roose was potentially angling for some plausible deniability. But, like, the Freys can't. Oh, yeah. And they're fucking bullshit. They all turn into werewolves warg story like no one's buying it. I think Roos was potentially angling for some plausible deniability, but like the phrase can't. Oh, yeah. And they're fucking bullshit.

They all turn into werewolves warg story like no one's buying it. So, yeah, Roos definitely did play up and get like, I mean, he got an upgrade in his title. Walder still has the same title, right? Something. You need a lateral move. Maybe even like not a lateral move. I don't know. Yeah.

He just. Yeah, he just stayed in place. Something that was brought up in the Lady Gwynn episode, I think. Yeah, because that's where we saw Blackfish get that title. Something else that I think Rob really did not do well, as you all have been talking about these last couple episodes, is like he did not politic well. And I think one of the major failings of his campaign was not creating new offices. So he made the one that we're in the sort of marches. I'm like, you need to make more like give people something to kind of sign up for.

Like, where's your order of the river wolves or something to kind of get people on board? 401k. Yeah. Like, where are the benefits? What's the PTO? Inspire some company loyalty. Cause I mean, like if he had so many,

or if there are just so many, like, you know, nights in the Riverlands and stuff that, you know, are looking for this glory, the second sons or whatever, a new kingdom is a new opportunity to just like make shit up.

Like, Hey, here's this new order. Cause he kind of had like two with his guard but like his guard just seemed more informal versus like an it was his personal honor guard but it didn't seem like like sansa's uh winged knights or rindley's rainbow guards it was just like hey you're just on guard duty and rob needed like you need the titles you need the incentives you need the story you need to feed

them the narrative of this is the story that you're part of and i think that would have been so smart to offer to lord karstark right in in payment for the sacrifice of his family and acknowledging like you know you have lost a lot right and as you said like i think that's why yeah it's so important that we did get to see Renly's camp through Catlin's story because people were flocking to Renly's cause. And part of it is what you said, right? They offered them benefits and they offered them a story to be part of. And the Northern story just wasn't strong enough for them. They're like, I don't know.

I don't care about your dead dad. like i think it is absolutely criminal to almost being a plot hole that rob didn't connect his campaign with the narrative of the lannister's treachery because he had cat cat had lisa's letter lisa's letter implicated the lannisters for murdering john Arryn. And then Lysa just fucks off to the Vale and just sits there. So like, had it been me, obviously not. But like, Lysa would have ignored me like once, twice, thrice the lady. And I would have been like, okay, fuck her. I'm sitting down with Blackfish and Catelyn.

Tell me the disposition of these Vale Lords. Who was loyal to Jon Arryn? Who was loyal to my father? Who's looking for glory? Who's looking for war? Because there's a thread like john aaron dies robert baratheon dies ned stark dies now we're here and you're over there and we're fighting not directly but you could spin the narrative like we are fighting for

john aaron's memory if we're going against the lannisters yes we know the lannisters didn't kill them but they had reason to suspect that they do because Kat had Liza's letter so again like not connecting that story I think that was one of the biggest like missed opportunities of Rob's war is because he just got stonewalled by Liza a couple times and just like gave up I'm like go around her because imagine you because him sending that message to the Royces, the Rainwoods, the Templetons, the errands of Goldtown like that could have forced the Lord's Declarant to exist earlier. Right. Because like even if they don't siege the Erie, which is not a great idea, they would

just leave. They could just leave and just go join Rob's campaign. So again, like that story, like the pieces were there because they had Liza's letter. They then they get Stannis's letter to like they have the pieces. They just don't do anything with them. And so. It's just a really frustrating thing to see is like as a rereader to kind of get this information and just see like how it gets kind of bottlenecked and then lost. And then, of course, you know, there is is a war happening there's like other stuff going on but like it just staggers me sometimes that rob and cat and brendan just man we've we've emailed liza and she just our dms are going

unanswered there's just nothing we can do i'm like yeah talk to someone else like there are other people you could have talked to to see if you could like solicit the veil to join your to join your side to join your cause, because your cause matches up with their best interests. Avenging John Aaron, protecting Robert Aaron. Like, I mean, I'm not saying that you have to, like, try to make Lysa pariah, but I think you have to present the the option of, hey hey the only reason we're here fighting is because the lannisters are killing hands of the kings one of which was your lord so you in you out like do y'all care do y'all not care like at least give me an answer she shouldn't have burned liza's letter yeah that was the first should have kept it but it would have just been a paper shield at that point too to be fair as we see with ned right like logistically in the story but it is hard and it's almost as if a feast for crows

answers that like alex as you began saying that i was like oh so they want to be little finger that's the disposition they want to have because that's really where it is right like that's what little finger sees little finger sees the power vacuum and he goes for it he's like oh everything's going awful here where cat doesn't have quite enough time to figure it out where she does but then she doesn't right because of like trauma and life and grief and war and travel i mean i'm just saying traveling is exhausting right eliana i know you can tell me and a, I know you can tell me, and Alex, I know you can tell me, travel's exhausting. I feel Alex thrives off travel, though. I do, it's fine.

Yeah, that's true. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I travel to my bed. Same. I was in Seattle this time last week, and now I'm here in Boston, so yeah, I be traveling. I be traveling. here in boston so yeah i'd be traveling i'd be traveling well catelyn then thinks of sansa's wedding which unfortunately she didn't get to attend and prays for the mother to take mercy

on her thinking she has a gentle soul yeah yeah and i just want to like briefly mention again it's like what we were just talking about where cat just has all the like almost all the pieces right there but because of things like Sansa's marriage you know losing Bran and Rickon allegedly like she just doesn't seem to be able to sit and ruminate on them which is weird because she was under house arrest for like x amount of time but it's just interesting that like she's just so close so much of the time, especially in this chapter, like this chapter, she is picking up on the signs like they are neon, but she's just not coming coming to that conclusion. Part of it because like you can't see the red wedding coming because it is such a gross breach of how things are done. But again,

just like all of these little events just constantly delaying cat from just like connecting the dots is just such a strong dramatic irony because it just makes us you know brenda from from scary movie we're like no bitch no like just rod leave yeah the mention of the wedding is sad that that's the saddest thing she's just thinking of all she's lost and of all her family's lost and of course reminds me of sansa in a storm of swords when lady tanda says to her like oh you have a gentle heart my lady for she was crying in the street as joffrey died as she has a panic attack in the street and catalan thinks she has a gentle soul uh it's so sad and catalatelyn's feeling sick from the heat

and the noise and the smoke and the musicians who are loud and not gifted she swallows wine and she thinks this will be over in a few hours rob will be off to deal with the ironborn and moat caitlin this is pretty sad that this is catelyn stark as we know her her last party because there was the river run kind of party where she and brienne were just like no we're just gonna be over here and then there was the rinley party over at caswell's keep that she ended up being able to avoid because you know rinley wanted to like you know show how big his dick i mean his army was but this is the one that she just like can't avoid she can't isolate she has to just be a part of this when

she's just not in the mood and yeah it's just such a such a strong contrast especially since one of her earliest chapters was the winterfell feast so she goes from like great party to the red wedding it's because she threw that party she threw a bang true true cat's the best party planner add that to the list of things I shout that Cat's the best at. Party planner. Oh my god. Well, unfortunately she wasn't in charge of this one. Because the drums are pounding, Jingle Bell hops by, and the music is so loud that she can't even hear his bells.

She can't be like, DJ, please turn it down. Because again, not her party. And above the music music a snarling arises two dogs fall upon each other over a scrap of meat someone pours ale on them and they break apart one limbs to the dace shaking ale all over three of waldo's grandsons and he sits laughing and i mean the dogs fighting each other like that over a scrap of meat if that's not a metaphor i don't know what is. The phrase.

Yup. The dogs afraid so. I got it. I got there. I love the reminder that comes back later in Theon's chapters, right? Of the dogs fighting in Winterfell over Theon 1.

That's what this makes me think of but the dogs make catalan think of graywind because walder refused to let him in he makes a very very big deal about it saying that his wild beast has a taste for human flesh rips out throats and he'll have no creature at his roslyn's feast. Amongst women and little ones, all his sweet innocents, him and his kin, are literally wolves themselves. Rob tried to defend Grey Wind, but Walder uses the whole kerfuffle that went down at the gates with Peter Pimple and company, and he's like,

what if Peter had broke his neck on that horse? What would you do? Give me another apology in place of a grandson? It's hysterical Walder pushes this so hard because it's obviously not really a worry cadeline also absorbed this petty motherfucking fight about peter pimple right because she ends up breaking his neck personally in the afterlife like she took that personally she's like interesting you're that upset about peter pimple's neck well i'm outside fair market and i have a noose

katelyn stark is about that action yeah good for her and also i mean yeah falling from a horse can be like real dangerous as we know with what um willis tyrell and him and obrin because obrin gets introduced in this book i mean he's mildly important in this book but also i i do love you know what you were saying of like it's so funny that walder pushes so hard because like he doesn't give a shit obviously about peter because he doesn't care when Catelyn is murdering his other grandson, like in two seconds,

like he does not give a shit. He's just taking the piss. Well, and though I would argue because Peter Frey is, I want to say above Jingle Bell. He's, he's above Agen. So,

and he's more capable in his eyes than Agen. So I would say he probably does care about Peter a little bit for that, but also he doesn't give a fuck. I mean, he's totally mad maxing his fucking family tree at this point, right? He has spares. He has the air and the spare and the spare and the spare and the spare and the spare.

He's got a lot of donuts in that truck. Okay, Alex? Donuts. Is that the drink in your trunk? Donuts in your trunk? Yeah. I want a donut. Not that kind of donut eliana that's what fuels me that's what i ride on rob is pretty it's apple cider donut oh that sounds good rob is pretty fueled up himself he's furious right about this whole gray wind thing at the time but he yielded courteously

and she remembers him saying hashtag rat cook if it pleases lord walder to serve me stewed crow smothered in maggots he told her i'll eat it and ask for a second bowl and so he had so the great john drinks peter pimple under the table next right we're on our second man and he begins to sing the Mayor and the Maiden Fair very loudly. Unfortunately, the musicians are not currently singing that song. They're playing Flowers of Spring, and even Jingle Bell is covering his ears at the sound. Roose Bolton murmurs something and says he's going to head off to find the bathroom. The hall is in constant motion. Servants, guests, coming, going. A second feast was happening for knights and lords in the other castle.

Walder's baseborn family members were exiled on that side of the river, and the north men had begun calling it the Bastard Feast. Some guests were stealing off to see if it was a better time than their feast, as the frays were providing ample booze for them as well. So I find the concept of the Bastard Feast interesting in the context of Liza's marriage, of course, and of course her child with Peter hanging over this, and then of course Jon as the heir, Jon Snow's role in Catelyn's story in general, and the whole line that he used.

He was the one person who had a very bad time at that party that catelyn planned right because he was he was in the line even though that wasn't why he was joining man's and is like did you see where they sat the bastard right and he clearly ran out of their upset but he made a new friend that's sometimes how parties go you're upset you make a new friend out of it but i do wonder if the concept of this bastard feast will somehow come back in a way, like with that same language, because I don't know, it's an interesting idea. And I also will point out that the party doesn't flow the other way, right? for people to move between classes and spaces especially, right? The lower knights and the lower lords and

the baseborn members of House Frey they can only go to that one party whereas those who are not having as good of a time at the, I guess, more highborn party they can choose whichever one they go to they get options but also maybe they also

escape the slaughter a little bit or have a better chance but whatever i mean like that class mobility and that access to spaces is it's such a like a thing right it's like in in our real world right like your boss or manager wouldn't ever feel weird about entering into your space but like if you go to your boss's office and announce it's gonna be like wait what are you doing right like that enforced hierarchy so yeah it's really interesting that the lower knights and the lower lords that's where they want to go because it's also just like when i mean this is kind of tangible like when you are a marginalized group and you make a safe space and then the like the other the outside group wants to come into it because it's like more fun it's like no

like we made this space to get away from you and then you just want access to it so you just uh just again just like take that access and use that privilege to like access our you know our kind of pre-defined little area here absolutely i think that's a that's a perfect way of putting it yeah and unfortunately it is such a bummer because it's such a bummer for all for all yes actually mostly just for some for some but no it is a bummer for most because like for most

even those people in that place in the bastard feast they're not better off most of those people die as well and with more confusion right while their weaponry might be on them, but they die drunk as fuck, and they don't have as much good food to absorb it with. I'm just putting that out there.

Like, literally in my, I guess, eight-ish years of knowing about this, I have never once thought about, what did the rest of the Northmen think? Right? Like, those who are sober enough to have conscious thoughts. Because, like, they made the tents and shit collapse on them right so you know they're just drinking doing shots and keg stands and it's like oh wait i'm dying what what this is my first night off in months my first night off in how many months and i'm dead i'm dead now they're not thinking they're dead dead as fuck right that's what they thought about that's weird because cover his dark materials aliana and consciousness bob has the worst happy hours ever no one signed up for his for his startup company

this is your happy this is his first happy hour this is like the first happy hour that he's had you know who gives happy hours edmure all right the tallies party that's it yeah they get wine drunk lake life rob sits in bolton's place after Bolton's gone to the bathroom, and he tells his mother, the farce is almost done. He says, Hurtful. He says Black Walder has been mild,

and Edmure has been content in his bride. Rob leans across to Sir Ryman and asks, is Olivar at the other feast? He means to ask him to squire for them in the north, but Ryman says, Olivar is gone from the castles. Duty. That just reminded me of Mario 64.

It's like, sorry, your Olivar's in another castle. You gotta redo this level. Exactly. Oh my god. There's no redo unless you're cadlin uh she's got that one up oh my god zombie mushroom a zombie one-up mushroom rhyman offers them nothing more and rob's like all right, well that's cool. He's like, I'm not going to talk to that guy anymore. Gonna move on. He asks Catelyn to dance with him, but

Catelyn declines, saying, I'm sure there's a fray daughter you haven't danced with yet. Okay, that just made me sad. They didn't even get a last dance together. I know. At his wedding there was no mother-son dance. Yeah, there's no mother-son.

Yeah, didn't get a first Didn't even get, yeah. Didn't get a first dance because he didn't invite his mom to the wedding. Oh, that just made me really sad. Oh, fuck. They're not dead yet, okay? Hang in there. There's still a chance, Alex. Stop.

Oh, hey. You want me to hang in there? So hard, so hard. The musicians. Cut me down, cut me down. The musicians play iron lances. Then, while the great John moves on to sing the lusty lad at the same time, Catelyn thinks, which Catelyn is so fucking funny,

she thinks someone should acquaint them with each other. It might improve the harmony. Like, George, like, we know this was like the last chapter he wrote for this book and i'm just like damn like kat stark's pov is ending on an absolute banger like this is a roast she's got heat for everybody and it's just great like this is just contextually isolated from the events. Really funny stuff happening. Oh, absolutely. And there's a lot of bangers.

A lot of bangers that happen in this chapter. Not the least the drums. The drums are banging. The crossbows are going to be banging. Admiral Roslin. Oh, yeah, they're banging. She does not want to be here. She does not want to be here.

She does make an effort, though, right? She turns to Ryman and tries to make conversation. She asks after one of his cousins, who's a singer, and he responds, Alessandra is Simon's son, Alex's brother, and Kat asks if Alessandra will play for them tonight. She's making such effort at this small talk. But Ryman responds that he's away,

and he pardons himself staggering toward the door ah i hate this i love it though because the realization dawns that each of the non-fighter non-political aggressor phrase are missing right as we see with the betting soon the phrase that aren't fighters go with the betting the phrase that are fighters go get suited up and come back and murder all of the frays that aren't there couldn't be spiritually enough strong enough to be a fray in this moment to uh show up and they're locked away in another castle as you said alex it's rough yeah and i wonder if that'll make a different probably it's not gonna make a difference for them when they come up against caitlin but besides besides that part you know like that being

i think a red flag right some of them being away like and especially coming back to oliver being away and ryman being like a fucking weirdo about it it's like because like oliver actually like really likes rob like He loves Rob. He wanted to stay with him. Like a brother. Yeah, exactly. And I do think it's a sign, right? All of these people being like, oh, yeah, they're not here right now.

That's a sign of what's to come. And besides the revenge murder zombie times coming for House Frey later on, I do think that House Frey's fate is in its name. The house is beginning to fray, and I think it will. A rope that is coming apart as all the different families ambitiously try to get each other out for greed. And I think it's interesting that some of them just straight up disagree with how things are going because they're like, this whole idea was a bad idea, and I liked those people. This whole idea was a bad idea and I liked those people. We're not going to get a Frey POV, but yeah, I really do wonder, was there just like an inner Frey council when they were just like, okay, so fuck the Starks, we're Team Lannister for life. There are new Biffles, so how are we going to do this? And then someone was just like, wait, what? I like the Starks.

And it's like, okay, you're going to Pink pink maiden go go over there go go find your cousin and then separate the ones that dissented immediately i mean that's probably what happened family meeting like yeah you guys say no okay well you're gonna go for a trip we're taking you on a trip for vacation goodbye enjoy your visit here's your pto don't clock in and that's part of yeah and that's part of why they picked rosin they're also like along with all of that collateral yeah i don't even remember what chapter but like the they're talking about like how a lot of the phrase like they'll quarter or they'll break up their uh you know surcord so they can be like you know we're all phrase but some of us are like this branch of phrase, this branch of phrase. So. So, yeah, I wonder if there is going to be like a I don't think they're necessarily going to cleave to like Team Stark as their breaking point, but more just like, hey, we're just not against like this type of betrayal.

Like there's lines, but we don't want to do this. So not necessarily like in, you know, I don't think there're other than like all of our maybe like one or two specific people i don't think there's gonna be like this internal stark tully leaning coalition of the phrase yeah i think there might just be a coalition of the like hey we just don't want to like murder kill our way out of engagements yeah and then the other the other part of them also like every fray for themselves too and i think that's what's gonna be sad yeah oh a fray for all love that oh my god um but chloe's like i'm being attacked on my own podcast but i and i think that's what'll be sad the lady stoneheart because clearly there are some who were stark sympathizers and she's gonna be like

well fuck you too i don't care. I was a stark sympathizer. Not by me. Not enough. You know, things seem okay. Otherwise, right? Like Kat keeps calming herself down. She's like, oh, Admir's kissing Rosalyn. Sir Mark Piper and Danwell Frey are playing a drinking game.

Lothar's making some side jokes to Hostine. Afray is juggling daggers for giggling girls, and Jingle Bell is sucking wine off his fingers on the floor. Also me. Same. That is me. Tag yourself. The servers bring out the only good dish of the night,

which is juicy pink lamb. Oh, that's a red flag. Lamb for slaughter. Rob leads Daisy Mormont in a dance, and Daisy is wearing a dress in place of her usual armor, and she looks very pretty, willowy, with an illuminating shy smile. She's as graceful on the floors in the yard, and Kat wonders if Mage had reached the neck yet, having taken her other daughters with her so that's a great call out you know in our episode with Lady Gwynn we talked about

how did the daughters get to mage so we don't know I guess it's unimportant it's totally not possible in my book without sailing around the white knife or going through the neck but I will suspend my disbelief for now. I will let him have it. They use Littlefinger's jetpack. Littlefinger's jetpack. And Daisy, though, Daisy is here. Daisy is not gone. And Daisy has remained by Rob's side, devoted to him.

Kind of the Mary Magdalene-esque character here. Kat thinks that Rob has Ned's gift for inspiring loyalty. Olivar had been devoted to him, wanting to remain even after Rob married Jane Westerling. I've been really trying to examine my bias on that statement from Kat, because obviously Kat's bias because this is her son. But there's this recurring motif in the story that the Starks do inspire that loyalty because they do give a shit about people, unlike other nobles in their position. So I do think that is true. I suppose like where my criticism challenge of Rob comes in is that he does seem to be good in the personal one on one loyalty for the people that he interacts with.

But I don't think he did a lot to build loyalty for his cause. but i don't think he did a lot to build loyalty for his cause and kind of going back to what i said earlier like not connecting his like his specific cause with like the erin cause i think that was like a missed opportunity for him to like inspire more of that loyalty because we we get the idea from like other povs and other parts of westeros like they just think rob's a rebel lord right like they don't really have reason to be loyal to him because it just seemed like maybe this was just like a personal vendetta for ned's death because again like he just didn't do anything to manage the optics of his narrative and i think that is something where like i'm not a war person i'm not like a war strategist in that way but

having played a lot of board games um particularly like there's there's a game that i play that is actually based off of song and ice and fire ip it's one of those games where it's like munchkin or risk or even monopoly like you can't play that game by yourself like if you're just sitting and not interacting with other people you're gonna lose you're gonna be the the first one out in most of these cases. And so I think that's something else where like Rob just really did not manage the politics or the intrigue side of his war. Because again, like I do think he could have had a good shot somewhat in the veil if he went around Liza's head. But I also think that my the other one, if I was talking about, it feels like George kind of has put these little seeds of a potential

Tyrell Stark alliance because it comes up in no fewer than three different spots from three different people and so it just seems like George is kind of just like putting this like well what if the Starks and the Tyrells did get together what if they did because Kat thinks about it Rob thinks about it and Alina thinks about it it's like both sides are kind of towing in that direction. But again, the plot happens. So it feels like Rob really could have had a good story for Westeros, right? He's fighting for his father's honor. He's fighting for the hand of the king office and all these things.

Also, if he would have reached out to Doran Martell, like Doran was working his own game. Rob didn't know that. But I was trying to think, like, if I'm Rob and I'm trying to reached out to doran martell like doran was working his own game rob didn't know that but i was trying to think like if i'm rob and i'm trying to like reach out to each of these other players like what am i gonna say and for doran like the message just almost writes itself like you know i'm king of the north you're prince of doran titles that could be as far apart as um winterfell and sunspear but one thing we both are are brothers to princesses surrounded by lions in the capital like that's the message bro like that would you know like even if they're not going to just you know send their armies to you they that might give them hesitancy with joining

with the Lannisters and so I think again like Robb did really well with the one-on-one personal touches to inspire loyalty and his guard and the few phrase that wanted to stay with him. But I don't think he did that wide scale with like Westeros. And I think that's definitely something where it's like, Rob didn't lose the war. He got cheated, but like Rob really didn't like help himself win. Absolutely agree.

Yeah. They, they were the late comers in the politicking, right? Like they, and they were sidestepped i mean they had they had other things first i mean that is that's very true it was out of their hands that everything collapsed by then yeah because like the lannisters the baratheons you know the dorna secret plan like everyone did have their own like plans and conspiracies and motions i again just like one of those kind of just like soft what ifs like could it have forestalled things could it have like kind of got things in your

favor because yeah the starks they were kind of in a losing position from the jump but i don't think they helped themselves when they could have helped themselves possibly avert this yeah oh no okay yeah it's coming it's coming no it is coming well walder fray claps his hands together please clap like jeb jeb bush jeb bush clap all right uh it's a faint clap, though. But Sir Aenys and Hostine then begin to pound their cups on the table and others join in. Half the guests are pounding. Even the musicians join in. And I'm like, you know, there it is, right? That's the echo to the beginning of the chapter where the pounding comes up again.

And it's the Freys who are leading that pounding because it's their battle cry. They are drumming their cups against the table getting ready to fight oh fuck sneaky sneaky walder calls out to rob asking him to officially you know start the bedding and walder's sons and grandsons then are banging their cups on the table even louder and he has this a line of, a sword needs a sheath, and a wedding needs a bedding. What does my sire say? Is it neat that we should bed them? And I just have in the side of like, I just hate the setting of like, a wedding needs a bedding, because I keep reading it first time as wetting. And like, oh, so we're just peeing the bed.

Everyone's just peeing the bed right now. Oh my god. Some people like that. That's what it sounds like. It's custom. It's custom. Oh my God. Some people like that. That's what it sounds like when I read it fast. It's custom. Oh my God.

It is also, your hat was perfect this week. You know, last week we really, we struggled to find the tone, but this week you have it. You have the murder hat. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. It's rough though. Like the bedding, it is a very, it's kind of a violent, weird experience from what we're reading here, especially at this wedding. And Rosalyn goes pale white from all of this. Kat wonders if Rosalyn is scared of her maidenhead or the bedding itself. And she kind of dissociates herself and thinks about her own wedding night she thinks about jory cassel tearing her gown in his haste to get her out of it in my head i'm like taking notes interesting this could be a ship is this a ship uh another cat ship uh-oh that's like mama milf ship right

there with jory and cat that's a it's kind of a that's a it's kind of a sexy that's kind of like a little bodyguard situation right yeah we love a bodyguard the night action come on show me how you hold your sword Jory

Ned dies but Jory survives anyways okay listen guys we are all okay

this is cute though let's dial it back let's dial it back can Let's dial it back. Can't get horny now, guys. We got a lot to get through tonight. Desmond Grell kept making jokes, but then immediately apologizing during the bedding for making each joke only to then come back and make another, which is just the cutest horny perverted thing I've ever heard, right?

What a gross, creepy, not real uncle that Desmond Grell was just like, yeah, that's what I'd say if I was boning you. God, I'm so sorry, Kat, that I said that. God, what's wrong with me? I just love it. I am in actual tears. I'm just like, poor Desmond Grell. I love him.

Actually, though, poor Desmond Grell. Yeah. But to get back to Horny lord dustin oh this might be why barbary oh wow eliana you sent me the meme the other day that i feel like really goes with this that uh lord dustin when he beheld cat naked he said her breasts were enough to make him wish he'd never been weaned and maybe that's why barbara dustin really hated cat you know what mean did i send uh just know whenever you feel bad that you're a point of contention for someone else in their relationship you know so like that's who at night cat was that point of contention

eliana sent me a lot of memes uh that was it that's for that's why barbara hates her so much she's like fuck me fuck my life every guy i have to fuck wants to fuck her it's going good for me oof that that that sucks i just wanted to i just wanted to add body crazy curvy wavy big titties little waist body yada yada yada yadaada, yada, yada, yada. It's true. Miss Lady Catlin Tully Stark is a fucking Fox. Ned Stark lucked out. Cat has the best rack in the realm.

As said by the, I don't know if you've heard this, this artist in this series. He's Sir Mix of House a lot. He's had a lot to say about Cat. Like there's just so much about oh my god there's um this there's just like this um this wayne brother who's like sansa's mom has got it going on there's just a lot about cat there's just a lot to appreciate i will stop but yes cat and them big milf mommy milker dockers titties

actually though actually though like and she's and she's out here holding it against other women that their their titties are not as nice as hers I wish she was holding it against other oh I'm so sorry Chloe if I said your breasts were enough to make

me wish i'd never been weaned would you hold them against me that is a valentine's card can we make a valentine's card with that oh yes no yes add it to the red west yes yes merch merch merch uh all right we need to we need to add some water on this. And then it gets sad. Then it gets sad. Look, our whole thing is we get hypersexual and then we get sad. And then we get hypersexual.

Are we hypersexual because of the sadness thoughts? Sometimes it's a reaction, you know? Sometimes you got to fuck the pain away. Oh, yeah. And the words of Peaches. And they believe that on the cinnamon wind yeah the teachers oh my god what else is in the teachers of peaches huh what what look catalan brings in that good old cassandra moment right and she wonders how many of the men here tonight will be dead before the year was done, much like Lord Dustin who had ridden south with Ned.

Too many, I fear, she thinks. And you know what? The answer is all of them. All of them will be dead before the year is done. Oof. That's it. That's a take.

What a come down. What a buzz kill bad bad times for team north stocks are bad sell sell stocks are bad bummer all around we're waiting for that it's a bear market maybe maybe maybe their island yeah yeah okay well rob raises a hand and pronounces all right the betting's begun the musicians begin to play they do the song the queen took off her sandal the king took off his crown and then the body jokes begin and i'm just like oh interesting that the queen took off her sandal because doesn't sanza lose a shoe when lies is like what if i just dangle you over the moon door total cinderella story absolutely yes oh i'll read this one because that's my name yeah alex dangle you over the moon door. Total Cinderella story. Absolutely. I'll read this one because that's my name.

Alex Frey. Fuck that person. Let me find a Frey voice. I hear Tully men have trout between their legs instead of cocks. Does it take a worm to make them rise? I don't know where that was. I'm sorry. No, I'm not sorry. Fuck it. It's perfect. It's perfect.

It's perfect. Mark Piper responds for Edmure. I hear Frey Woman have two gates in place of one, and Alex quips back. Aye, but both are closed and barred to little things like you. I don't know where this voice is going. I don't know, but you know what? I like it. Patrick Malister climbs a table,

proposing a toast to Edmure's one-eyed fish. A mighty pike it is, he says, and Fat Walda yells out, I'll wager it's a minnow. The cry rises of bed them, bed them. The drunkest guests start to swarm the dais surrounding Rosalind and Edmure, lifting them up, tugging them with their clothing out,

and getting them going out of the room. Edmure's part is going swimmingly, but Rosalind isn't really faring as well. The Great John arrives. Give this little bride to me, he bellows as he shoved through the other men and threw Rosalind over one shoulder. Look at this little thing, no meat on her at all. Catelyn felt sorry for the girl. Most brides tried to return the banter, or at least pretended to enjoy it, but Roslyn was stiff with terror, clutching the Great John as if she feared he might drop her. She's crying, too, Catelyn realized, as she watched Sir Mark Piper pull off one of the bride's shoes. I hope Edmure is gentle with the poor child

poor roslyn it's awful oh yeah she's she's got a lot of other things to be crying about you know most people don't have to deal with murder on their wedding but unless they're dothraki unless they're dothraki. caitlyn's story is very much a realization of the terrors of womanhood and it especially becomes so when she's rejecting it after the role of mother right which she was supposed to play it's stolen from her she never takes on the role of queen she always stays as mother and mother of the king and gradually throughout her chapters building up to you know this moment the ultimate chapter not the pen ultimate she's pondering upon the vulnerability of womanhood and and even motherhood and she has especially done it in the context of her enemies even though she doesn't always know it and doesn't

know that they're enemies but you know as we've stated before she's looked at motherhood through the lens of cersei and john's mother and she wonders if they feel the same as her when it comes to their children, and trying to understand if there is a universality to what she's feeling. And she's also considered in the context of Lysa's failed marriage, right? And Lysa's inability to live up to the duties,

the role of wife. And then now here, as she, like, looks at the bait that her enemies have laid out, it's Rosalind. And now she's thinking about, like, this really systemic rape of women and girls when it comes to marriage, which she doesn't think of it in those terms. She's just like, this is what we do, right?

And in terms of how their bodies are used as currency to buy men's armies, she was pondering that in her past, in previous chapters. Now Roslyn's being used to buy passage home, to buy power, without having even the power to cover their own bodies

or to bear them as they wish, without the power to to choose their partners it's part of why she probably thinks of Sansa too and her wedding and though Catelyn does pity these women and she also thinks of like yes I do know this feeling it was a bad feeling right she doesn't reject it necessarily in those moments it's only as Lady Stoneheart does she finally really come to that full-on rejection of womanhood as Westeros has defined it. And she makes one more woman that she's projected onto. She projected onto Brienne in many ways, especially Brienne as a daughter, and turns Brienne into her enemy as she becomes this paradox, this really oxymoron within the faith of Westeros and becomes Mother Merciless. Yeah, Kat's story with womanhood is so interesting because Kat brushes up against the glass ceiling at almost every turn. And because of probably just the privilege that she has in her life and then also just like her own internal integration unlike characters like brienne like cersei she's not unhappy being a woman

and or she's not unhappy with what she's perceiving a woman's role in west rose to be but so many times in the story she's just kind of just it's almost being like just shown to her like you're the exception like just because it worked out for you and you're happy like this system of women being used as property as pawn as currency it's not really great and it's really hurtful and just like the betting concept is just a micro uh cosm example of how Westeros treats women. Like, especially if you think about it with a comparison that men are expected to sleep around. We know Edmure has slept around, so he's fucked before.

Like, this is his first time. But imagine your first time having sex is surrounded by fucking people like hooting and hollering and after they undress you. So again, for the noble ladies in this in this system. And so not even privacy is granted to women in this system like there's all we all we see through liza like bodily autonomy and choice aren't there for women but not even again privacy in this most intimate moment in your life if you choose it to be that because sex doesn't have to be that thing but it does seem like it is in a lot of these

cases so the fact that cat is thinking about hers with those fond memories again, like Kat is like the exception because she's found happiness and contentness within this Westerosi system, even as she realizes somewhat that is just not fair, not fulfilling. But she's fulfills like that. That tension, that contrast is really interesting as she encounters these other women in different stations. The autonomy being taken away is just so obvious, right? And I mean, that's what a lot of her plot has confronted is that she's always just said, fine, sure. That's a variable i can't change that's a controlled variable in the society that in order for me to do my duty i do not get autonomy over myself and it's kind of sad because she's thinking of her own bedding with kind of sorrow for those men who have died but the happiest memories she

has of these men is during her bedding that she didn't have a choice over she just accepted it right yeah that's sad that's depressing that that's the memory she has of them of when they were boasting about how great her tits were and how great it is that ned gets to you know bonker and i think it it's like what alex was saying right like the she finds happiness in that moment because the rest of the system has worked out for her so she can look back on it and be like yeah i guess that worked out for me and therefore doesn't have any interest in being like the system sucks and even though you know she's seeing the suffering of other women until it starts getting taken away from her and she starts suffering even though she's like i feel like i did everything right so why me when she's basically asking them to put her in jail after freeing jamie right she's just like she's asking to get her autonomies taken away but they won't do it like

this this fucking paradox of of just being a woman in these hyper patriarchal societies is just like even when she does wrong she still can't be treated like she did wrong because she's a woman in these hyper patriarchal societies is just like even when she does wrong she still can't be treated like she did wrong because she's a woman and again it's just like those fond memories of what you could argue is a violation because as we see through sanza as we see through asha like women they don't have the ability to consent or not consent it's rather are you going to go willingly or are we going to drag you or we're going to put a fucking walrus in your place like there is no consent if that if that's if that could be you know an option if that can be on the table so for these noble women and you know and this again this is the noble women so whatever

little dignities there might be there to at least make like a ceremony of it if you're not a noble woman you have to hope that your lord doesn't believe in first night and wants to you know risk it with the with the authorities so this intersection of marriage and womanhood and your bodily autonomy is just it's so interesting that cat doesn't criticize it because again like it worked out for her and she's not unhappy with it because she does have a i think a really good through line between her sex her gender and her role in the society but then there's so many other women that we see that just don't on any one of these axes and and we see that that conflict there and so yeah it's just really interesting for cat to be like that perspective, because in a lot of ways, Kat's the kind of best example of it happening.

You could argue it's like either Kat or Cersei for like where they end up in the social stratosphere, but they both are just unhappy in these different ways. Like Cersei, very contextual to her sex, but Kat very contextual to almost just not being treated like as a real person who like would not even be able to take responsibility for the things that she does. She's just like, OK, my brother's going to put me under house arrest, even though he technically doesn't have the authority to. But whatever. Yeah. And I would push back even a little and say that like Kat does to an extent during this. Like she's also not it's not even that she's thinking favorably of it, right? Like she's thinking of just these like sad, miserable, like, oh, these guys are all dead now that we're all there at my own.

And she's lost in the memories and everything throughout this entire chapter of her. All of these memories that keep coming back do feel hazy. And she's focusing on them and she's looking for anything besides the misery of the wedding it's it's a garbage wedding it's a very bad wedding it's not good and the signs are everywhere and she's just kind of like languishing in these final thoughts not unlike how ned languishes in his final thoughts and of his lost ones and of the ghosts in his life right as her life is about to come to an end whether she knows her head's gonna be chopped off in front of the scepter not here you know it's a

very lateral end for them for their path intertwining at the very end that she's going to die though be brought back uh and as he died all he had was the misery of didn't I live a good life? Maybe. Did I? Question mark. I don't know. Did I do the thing? Did I do it? I had love enough for any woman. Didn't I? Like, that's really what it is.

Why'd y'all ask me for this chapter? You asked for this. I did. I asked for it. I wanted these sad feelings. Well, you want happiness. is happiness right some jolly music is happening where the queen queen is done taking off her sandal and she's taking off her kirtle the king his tunic and cat's like i should join in on the wedding the bedding the wet bed but i don't want to ruin their fun edmure would forgive her absence as well, because she thinks there's

no way that could be fun for him in any way, not for his minnow. As the couple is carried from the hall, she sees Rob chose to hang back as well, and she's like, shit, Walder's gonna take that as further insult. Rob should have joined the bedding, she thinks, but she doesn't

think it's her place to tell him that i just had the thought like it was probably expected that cat would go that might have been how she was supposed to survive this i believe so i believe so this is her nexus point this is her what if oh my god had she gone yeah she she could have just stayed in the room and just you know not seen all this damn um because i because i because i wrote in the doc i was like what if rob did go where there's gonna like pull him from the room and be like hey can we go talk to you outside real quick and just like balk him over the head but like he stayed in the hall right so that was i think clearly meant to clear out his guard who they wanted to get you know super drunk and stuff but were they just are

there nets in in the bed chamber they're just gonna throw him over robin cat or something but but yeah i think that was what was supposed to happen but it was just expected that cat would go because that's what you'd expect the lady to do yeah yeah oh fuck especially for her brother yeah family duty honor well they're not the only ones that stayed back right peter pimple and waylon are there but they're asleep they're drunk merit however pours another cup of wine wendell mandanderly is attacking a lamb leg and Walder is sitting in his seat. She could almost hear the old man asking why his grace did not want to see his daughter naked. like everything cat says if you were just casually reading you know it's just like damn this is a

miserable event but you know but just like these little points and comments and uh like even even the comedy of the great john not being in tune with it it is showing you like things just aren't aligned like everything's a mess even the the festivities aren't aren't in sequence or not they're not harmonizing it's like every fucking fracture point cat is pointing out yeah this is not the song of ice and fire this is that like remix that i don't know well i hate this remix don't subscribe to the soundcloud um yeah absolutely and well you know he's not gonna ask why rob didn't want to see his daughter naked because he's gonna kill him the drums pound again and daisy's the only woman left behind except for

cat and daisy steps up to edwin fray touching his arm lightly to maybe kind of ask for a dance and he wrenches himself away from her with like unseemly violence. And he goes, no, he said too loudly. I'm done with dancing for the nonce. And it's like, whoa, homie, chill. But Daisy pales and turns away, and Catelyn got slowly to her feet and just suddenly wonders, what just happened there? Red flags, red flags.

Chilling, chilling. It is chilling, right? Something about the violence and this betrayal against daisy right the only woman in rob's guard as i said the mary magdalene and i mean she traded her armor for one night she's always in armor and in choosing to reject or accept her femininity in that choice right like that was a factor in her fate. That's what punches her in the gut. And I think especially as we move in with Brienne's chapters,

we'll keep thinking of this and in other characters in A Feast for Crows, like Sorella Sand, that have to kind of perform physically and succeed in that performance in order to survive. Or Cersei, who uses her femininity as a weapon. Whomsy?

Whomsy? Whomsy? weapon whom see whom see Cersei Cersei confirmed yes nice oh my god we're taking it all back no I'm just kidding but that moment for Daisy that's so sad

that she gets so little time in the time she does get in her weakness of just like her weakness her female weakness right of dancing and enjoying songs and play she gets killed i mean it sucks to get like no like like without irony like when you're at you know a party an event a club you go to that person. It's like, hey, you want to dance? They're just like, oh, no. Right. Like that. That hurts.

And then in this context, right. Like that's a public slight against a woman which could damage her reputation. You know, like that reputation culture. Right. Like, oh, why didn't you know the phrase when I dance with this Moormark girl? What's wrong with her? Because, of course, it's going to be what's wrong with her. They're never going to question the man.

But yeah, just like that moment of daisy just why in a dance you know it's a shitty wedding but it's still a wedding and to get rejected like that it is it's so interesting that you know that's like one of the last catalysts that cat sees of like that's just that's just wrong like you you dance with the girl you dance with the girl. You dance with the girl. Like, what? What? What just happened there? Yeah, that breaking of societal, you know, norms in that moment. You dance with a nice girl in a nice dress. Nope. That's the moment that really got her, right?

Because she tells herself, you're seeing grumpkins in the woodpile, and you've become a silly old woman sick with grief and fear. and you've become a silly old woman sick with grief and fear but thus cassandra spider since tingled for the last time yeah uh cat sandra cat sandra yikes yikes and i mean it makes sense right she's doubting herself now finally in these chapters because after being told she was wrong over and over again by like everyone in the previous chapters even though you know she was right about theon all right and then like takes all the grief and the shit from for the jamie decision even though rob's like yeah i should have done that earlier she's doubting herself when she shouldn't she's like i couldn't protect my kids. Like, I don't know shit. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, she, she says it, which, you know, makes good foreshadowing, right?

Like, she just says it, like, I can't give in to these doubts, right? And then the one time she, she does it, it's like, oh, wait, no, you really should have been listening to your doubts. And she does everything she can to protect them right like even in the last chapter she says edmure we need to set our own guards but this is the one place they all let their guard down because it was the place they knew they needed to perform the best and there's also something to be said that this was their only option and she reiterated this over and over again enough because, I mean, it was socially, politically, tactically, this was their only option. And in a way, she needed to kind of convince Rob and Edmure and keep them convinced of that, right?

Because they could back out and they were what was driving this. So even though she felt like the signs were wrong, she also felt the need to keep driving them to it because it was their only choice and then it was also a bad only choice to have yeah there was no other choice yeah there wasn't and you know that her realization of how things are going must have shown on her face because wendell manderly asks if something is amiss i'm glad that he you know that he noticed i'm glad that he cared yeah george is like i mean this fucking chop like one of the reasons i i wanted to be on this chapter is like i think this is singularly one of the best chapters in the whole

damn series and just the little details of like these little character moments just i mean you know you could be like oh he just wants to pat it he just wants to make it you know like more like this person's there and this person's there but i do think it's like yeah wendell manderley we know he has at least enough care about cat or you know about like how things are supposed to be to be like hey you you don't look good you okay like you okay hun like you good it's a wedding come on there's lamb you know there's lamb and the jellied calves brains

that's the giveaway fuck and yeah she doesn't answer Wendell in this moment, though, because she gets up and she goes immediately after Edwin Frey because she's like, wait a fucking second. And then the music changes.

Someone hands the aux cord over, and a different song plays. No one sang the words, but Catelyn knew the reins of Castamere when she heard it. So I have a very stupid take so my my very stupid take for how cat could have spun this moment so just so just go with me right we need i need i need brains open yes so the reins of castamere start cat knows something's going wrong what if she somehow reached into her sleeve pulled out a microphone and started a round of karaoke

because who could resist a round of karaoke at a wedding right so cat has to start the most impromptu version of the raising customer and who are you everybody oh lord as she's like going around gives the mic to rob and rob's like what the fuck he's like fucking sing and then you know rob sings it passes the mic and then they von trap the fuck out of there like that i mean this is the worst squid game i've ever heard of this is i think that was i shared a god i shared a god like i shared a god that's my last idea for how Rob could have avoided the red wedding. A little karaoke into the Von Trapp exit of The Sound of Music. It's definitely a Von Trapp. Like, that is for sure.

Oh, they got Von Trapp'd. Amazing. Hired. Oh my God. Thank you. Put me on your team. Hired. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, that's true. the karaoke would have helped no i feel like i feel like you're both very wildly underestimating the situation are we or are you underestimating the joy of music cat ryoki cat ryoki cat ryoki my god two wrongs don't make a hire you do yes they do we have two board votes eliana when we started this chapter way back when we were very serious an hour and a half ago uh when we started this chapter well when we started this chapter, we talked kind of about the rhythm in the background, right? Of the heartbeat of the whole entire chapter and also of the drums and the boom, boom, doom. And here, Reigns of Castamere takes over and it becomes the steady beat.

It becomes the melody. The chapter comes to its peak, getting ready for its end, and the drums have been carefully maintained and steadily increased, rhythmically speaking. And here we are. And in Aria 7, we're actually given the full lyrics to Reigns of Castamere just a few Aria chapters ago, with most of its careful references appearing throughout this book in characters like Jamie's plot. I thought there was something really poetic in that mirror of Arya learning the Reigns of Castamere lyrics before this chapter, right, right when she's on the outskirts. And there's something else interesting about the structure of the entire chapter. Beric promises Arya, on his honor as a knight in that chapter,

that he'll bring her back to her mother right similar language with catelyn in a little bit on her honor as a stark uh and top of seven strings then plays the mother's tears when willem's wife was wet lord hart rode out on a rainy day and the rains of castamere which chillingly that mixtape kind of lines up with the entire plot of this chapter right like not saying thomas seven strings knows shit but he definitely his playlist was a good soundtrack for this chapter that's a good eight track you remember eight track yeah i sure do the the mix the the playlist, the playlist website. Yeah.

Yeah. Mad respect. Mad respect for HVAC. Yep. Yep. Though I'm trying to figure out whose wife was what. Willems. At the.

Fat Walda shit. Yeah. For real though. Fat Walda's out there. She's like, I'm so rich and's like i'm so rich and wet i'm so rich and wet apparently and not around these bitches and not around these scheming jealous skinny bitches i'm good oh my god fuck us skinny bitches fuck you skinny bitches well there's that there's that soundtrack of and who are you the proud lord said that i must bow so low and then she grabbed edwin by the arm to turn him and was like we are not doing get low

and went cold all over when she felt the iron rings beneath his silken sleeve and who are you the proud lord said that i must bow so low like it is it's a fucking banger like this song slaps like this song slaps the way it's woven into this and i mean again right like the specific lyric to match up this like george george is setting this like pitch fucking perfectly. Like again, because that's the fucking free position. That's the Bolton's position. Like, and who are you?

You know, fucking Starks of Winterfell, fucking Tolles or whoever run that, that I must bow so low. So yeah, it's like the the way that George is incorporating these songs to be a part of the mythos and part of the just plot is just just fucking genius. And I will give the show credit because the soundtrack slaps and yeah, the rains version, you know, like the fucking I put it in a GIF replied to the tweet of us recording, you know, like that moment where Kat turns. And it's just like just just the way like that sound change is like cat's moment of just being like fuck yeah yeah yeah it is like fuck and also i mean this is this is what you're saying right like it's such a part of the mythos that they don't even need

the words right she can hear it in her head and they know and i mean like this is what you're saying this is the karaoke moment because it's just it's just the instrumental oh my god yeah like it's it is just instrumentals and again like that internal mythos being so consistent but just the fucking tune is enough to convey that meaning and yeah like like chloe just mentioned like aria learns about it later like we learn about it separately but the the impact of it is in this moment where, you know, no words, but the reigns of Castamere is plain. That's bad. And it's also weird that people have been doing this,

like IRL, like Thrones fans for their weddings. I'm like, did y'all read the books? Did y'all know what they were doing? Who would do that? Who would do that, Chloe? Who would do that? So I've heard people have done that. Get married and then talk

to me, okay? Tell me you're not gonna do it. Tell me you're not gonna do it at your wedding, okay? It's worth it. The song is gonna be a mix that I'm gonna do myself of Beyonce's Hello and Beyonce's

Ave Maria. I will also be singing myself as well. Oh my god. I thought you were going to say that your mix was going to be The Mother's Tears When Willem's Wife Was Wet, Lord Hart Wrote Out on a Rainy Day. That's the reception playlist.

That's the reception playlist. I will be there and I will eat two servings of jellied calves brains. Thank you. It's going to be so good. It's going to be so good. Oh my God. You know what is really good?

There's this really sad line. That's my favorite because it just encompasses the whole chapter. Catelyn slapped him so hard she broke his lip. Oliver, she thought. Perwin, Alessanderander all absent and roslyn wept jesus wept yeah that very jesus wept moment yeah and roslyn wept and once again kat stark is proving that she is abso-fucking-lutely about that action like ah like you know that's her like E2 Brute right like she just slaps the shit out of him so she fucking

breaks his lip like you know like going out with defiance that's kind of like all you could do in this moment so that is that is Kat's act of defiance at this just a cat of a different coat right there yeah

oh my god two ways to skin a cat of a different coat right there. Yeah. Oh my God. Two ways to skin a cat, they say. Oh God. Edwin shoves her aside. The music drowns everything out. Rob tries to block Edwin. A quarrel sprouts from his side. Catelyn watches a second pierce his leg and he falls. Half the musicians have crossbows.

They're, you know, dual employed. She runs to Rob, but she's hit in the back with an arrow she falls to the floor and screams for rob she sees the small john wrestle pro style a table off the ground flinging it to protect rob robin flint is surrounded by frays their daggers falling on him wendell rises to feet, but a quarrel punches through his open mouth, leaving through the back of his neck. Catelyn's back was on fire. I have to reach him. Crazy.

I wonder if her back is really hurting from carrying the first three books. Just kidding. It's because of the arrow. It's because of the arrow, everyone. It's also what you said, but I will say, you know, it's a good thing that she feels

that fire there because uh that's what's gonna bring her back yeah that's it more action more action pops off right raymond fry is bludgeoned by the Small John, but then the Small John is brought to his knees by a crossbow bolt. Lucas Blackwood is cut down by Hostine Frey. Advance is hamstrung by Black Walder after wrestling with Harris High. Crossbows take Donald Locke, Owen Norrie, and a dozen others. Sir Benfrey seizes Daisy Mormont by the arm, but Cat watches her fuck him up with a flagon

of wine. Get him, baby. Running for the door. It flies open before she reaches it, though, and Sir Ryman pushes into the hall, clad in steel from head to toe, with a dozen fray men at arms behind him, armed with heavy, long axes. This one's a bummer also.

And Catelyn, I mean, she thinks she's got it. And then it's like the round two of a boss fight. And Catelyn's watching the northern men, like the northmen just get cut down and we go through all their names and like those individual deaths. And just a few moments ago we were reminded of people like jory right after her wedding and this scene as she's watching the northmen fall

around her and and calling each one out feels very much like a mirror to ned watching his northern men his get cut down in the streets around him when he was in king's landing he's like what the fuck is going on these are my men these are my friends and and he also knows all of them by name catlin cries for mercy but her plea is drowned by the noise ryman buries his axe in daisy's stomach men pile in and shaggy fur cloaks steel in hand for a heartbeat cat thinks northman and that their rescue has arrived and i i wanted to highlight that the text there because the the texas mercy catlin cried but horns and drums and the clash of steel smothered her plea and so just kind of like tying it back together to like the the title of this book a storm of swords the clash of steel and so yeah i think it's like because cat is there when rinley

and stannis are having their parlay the clash of kings and now here in this book which doesn't have like a lot of battles but like in this you know clash of steel it's the storm of swords so again just like kind of cat being like that that catalyst that central character who's been carrying the whole book series um so yeah i just wanted to point that out there and then also again just like the the cry for mercy that doesn't even get heard because of the the storm of swords yeah it is and and it's just so sad like and feels really pointed that that mercy goes ignored with you know what cat becomes yeah as lady stoneheart mother merciless and yeah and as you said that that gut punch of a moment where she thinks rescues arrived i will say you know at least with daisy you know at least she got to see this violence happen right before she died she

knows she wasn't rejected because of anything about her it was just that they were being murdered and i feel like that would be meaningful to me that would mean a lot to me it's like oh you think i'm pretty like so it wasn't so it wasn't me i'm not the problem yeah thank god i mean that little that little moment it was like fucking uh what was the movie seven right like everyone getting these like kind of ironic deaths you know like daisy getting in the you know stomach aka the uterus area the mandolin the throat like yeah it's very these very ironic death george is just sprinkling in for everybody they planned this they planned this they wanted to do this like they via george wanted to really twist the knife for for each of these deaths yeah and like small john's death is so sad he gets his head taken off with two blows of an axe

and there's this line that's so uh it's shattering hope blew out like a candle in a storm in the midst of slaughter the lord of the crossing sat on his carved oaken throne watching greedily that's where it got me right like that it that. It's all sad. But this line, oh, your stomach just turns hope blew out like a candle in a storm. And the Northmen, just the description of them showing up in shaggy furs with their steel to murder them. ruse's role outside of this actual chapter, I think it's forgettable, right? Because because he's such a schemer you don't really see to the average eye what he's doing you forget that he masterminded so much of this even down

to this betrayal of having north men come in to reinforce the murdering that's going on in the hall and i think because ramsay's torture is so grotesque and in your face it can kind of overshadow ruse's cold fucking psycho killer whole ordeal but this is psychological warfare which you see when ramsey tortures theon it's pretty lateral in terms of how fucked up it is yeah i mean it's just pulling wounds off of a dragonfly and then setting on fire like this is they're going for to make it personal and something else that i wanted to comment on just tying back to the episode or two episodes ago with lady gwen where you talk about like she has that hope for brianne and here's another hope spot right it's the northman it's

hope it's she just like keeps getting these little and just this part of the northern campaign from their perspective it's a hopeful moment we'll get the marriage we'll get our numbers back up then we'll go home it's just like just hope hope hope hope hope it just keeps getting taken away from them so so yeah when you're talking about stoneheart being um mother merciless is because yeah because she said she doesn't get mercy she can't even hold on to hope so what the fuck is left yeah i i like that idea that tying of mercy and hope that i mean mercy needs hope right like the two have to go together well it only gets worse from here because a dagger sits on the floor catelyn forces herself towards it here's another moment of hope right the taste of blood in her mouth she's telling herself she's gonna kill walder fray and jingle bell is closer to the

knife than she is so they're hiding in it under a table but he cringes away as she grabs the blade and this is the hope right she's like i will kill walder fray i will kill the old man i can do that much at least and you know what she doesn't make it she doesn't make it but this even if it's a this moment moment, right, as hope starts dying, it's a moment where Catelyn really, as Lady Stoneheart, I think begins to emerge because finally she's like letting that lust for vengeance that she's been feeling all these past few books and she's said it aloud, but she continues to stifle it. And she contains it for just a few more moments as again, there is still that hope.

And as you said, she's begging for mercy for her son's life. And so it's not fully there yet. But Lady Stoneheart's crowding. Jesus, she's crowding. She's crowding. And worse yet, Rob struggles to his feet. Three arrows scattered through him. And Walder raises a hand.

The slaughter pauses. The music stops. all but one drum. Catelyn then hears a distant battle, and Grey Wind. Grey Wind howling in the distance. She remembers too late. The king in the north arises. Seems we killed some of your men, your grace. Oh, but I'll make you an apology. That will mend them all again.

Like, literally the pettiest, weaseliest bitch-ass bitch in the whole fucking series. Like, fuck you, Walder Frey. Like, just all the fucks in Westeros, Essos, Planetos,

and Universos, just all of the fucks in Westeros, Essos, Planetos, and Universos. Just all of the fucks for you. Like, you petty-ass little bitch. Yeah. But he's gonna make an apology. Walder Frey's his own apologist this episode. Walder Frey's the Frey sympathizer. I don't know him.

I don't know him. It was, like, literally, like literally like in every sense overkill. Like it, all of it was pretty unnecessary. Walder Frey though coming in, he's just like, it's just a prank, bro. And I'm like, no, people are dead. It's like, it's like Winston from New Girl. You just got Waldered. Like literally everyone's bleeding out around Rob.

He's like, dog, my bad. It's good, right? That's how it works, right? Isn't that what you did, right? Just say it's okay. It wasn't really the same, Walder, but that's okay. Catelyn, in response to this, she does take a little bit of a power move. Not really a power move because it's Jingle Bell.

It's kind of fucked up. And grabs Jingle Bell by the hair, pulling him up with her dagger to his throat. She thinks of Bran's sick room, the feel of steel at her own throat. The drum went boom, doom, boom, doom, boom, doom. She begs Walder to let her first and last son go, that they'll take no vengeance.

He asks if she takes him for a fool, and she says she takes him for a father. Keep her hostage, Edmure as well, if he lives, but let Rob go. Yeah, and here's where the daddy issues come out, right? Because apparently some fathers in this book just don't care, but anyway. But this is the moment, right, where Catelyn is losing her faith.

And again, Lady Stoneheart starts manifesting more because, you know, we were talking episodes ago about that idea of Catelyn and Catholicism. And that idea of like, you know, we will forgive this and we will forget it and and that idea of forgiveness in general i think is such a very core part when it comes to christian philosophy and and catholicism depends on maybe but like that the faith of course is very much inspired by catholicism though you do see aspects of christianity show up in some of the other religions like baptism with the ironborn etc but cat offers it again once more and then her faith right which is like so core to westerosi society i mean it doesn't save her and what does bring her back is a red god who's going to give her what she wants and she's no longer forgiving and she's no longer forgetting because it was not just a prank no April Fool's

here don't use my birthday in that vein how dare you how dare you no white elephant Christmas party that's better thank you it's like if he wanted to be mad

he just had to withdraw his support and be like you can't cross not all this just go around bro To be mad, he just had to withdraw his support and be like, you can't cross. Yeah. Not all this. Yeah, just go around, bro. Well, Rob whispers, mother, no. And Catelyn tells him to get up, to just walk out and to save himself.

If not for her, then do it for Jane. Yeah, I mean, this part is, it's tough, yo. Like've said before, like the stark position from the beginning was they were fucked. They were late to the party. Everyone else had their plans and motions. And something that Eliana like what I really appreciate through this cat journey with y'all is that Eliana specifically just keeps mentioning like Rob's age. He's fucking 16. is that Elion specifically just keeps mentioning like Rob's age. He's fucking 16.

He's not equipped to be king of anything, much less these two kingdoms in this war. And so I have in previous, you know, my fan life, I was just like, by this point, Rob was probably done. Like he might not have been trying to like, you know, suicide by cop slash fray. But like, I feel like up until the, you know suicide by cop slash fray but like i feel like up until the you know last ditch effort to go reclaim the north from the ironborn that there was like no exit strategy there was no wind condition they were just fucked and lost and rob was just kind of not even treading water but just

like fuck we're just we're just fucked we're just fucked we're just fucked and so like in this moment where he's just like no like like go out for what like what am i supposed to do like i he's right to assume his army is just getting slaughtered at the moment so even if the phrase they're not but even if he did walk out what would he walk out to just to be one rob stark alone in the world alone in this you know now occupied hostile riverlands to swim his way past the neck and go to the burnout husk of winterfell like he's got nothing and like even jane right like his wife he he loves her but still it's just like what's he gonna do to protect her yeah and i don't know if he loves her, but still, it's just like, what's he going to do to protect her? Yeah. And I don't know if he loves her enough. And it's – what you've called out is, I think, really important because we don't get Rob's POV.

And we do talk about it, but this is something that we didn't really bring up, but we did to some extent. that we didn't really bring up, but we did to some extent, but has he given up because he feels he deserves it because he feels that by letting Theon go, he killed his brothers. Yeah. Is he giving up? And he's like,

this is payment for my sins, right? Like for, for everything that's happened. And you know, not only that, like, I mean,

this is fucking tiring for 16 he's going through puberty he's got a his dad died and like you said he's the only one left and it's very like if his mother's gone if his father's gone if his brothers are gone if everyone's gone except for like one sister who's now out of your grasp it's very much mary mosder asking and telling danny like look at what life is worth when all the rest is gone yeah yeah and bringing up Danny like the the again these leaders that are forced into these impossible situations these young leaders you know they they don't have the bandwidth or the resources in the middle of a rebellion in the middle of a war how could he do more you know he's at his limit he's had every part of him every oath he's had to swear and vow tested in some aspect at this point and they all just want to go home

rob's voice was whisper faint mother no yes rob get up Get up and walk out. Please save yourself, if not for me, for Jane. Jane? Rob grabbed the edge of the table and forced himself to stand. Mother. Walder snorts, asking why he'd allow any of that to happen. Cat digs the blade deeper into Jingle Bell's neck. A foul stench reaches her nose. Jingle bell, likely. But she pays it no mind. Sir Ryman and Black Walder circle round her back. But she doesn't care. She thinks they could do as they wished. Imprison her.

Rape her. Kill her. It made no matter. She had lived too long. And Ned was waiting. It was Rob she feared for. She raises her knife, telling Walder,der on her honor as a start she'll trade rob's life for walder's son a son for a son but walder says that's a grandson and he was never

much use oh ableist ass bitch absolutely i can't wait till he dies that is what it is right like that Jingle Bell doesn't matter to him because he sees him as nothing but empty a simple boy you know vacuous a simple man and it's awful because that's the saddest sound that's what the ghost of high heart says to Arya is that when Kat chooses vengeance against someone else who is helpless in this system Jingle Bell she's trading her honor in this moment for that vengeance even though she knows it means nothing to him yeah it doesn't and so instead what happens is once more hope is blown out

because Reese Bolton steps up to Rob in his dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood talk about red flags this is it the little red flag but what Eliana was saying about Rob feeling guilty I think he did because we see

in both Kat's POV and ned's pov they do internalize their own actions and like hyper inflate the consequences and so like as ned is you know in the black cells as cat is a pov over these three books they do really take on that that sense of like this is all my fault like i've deserved this and so i also think part of rob's like like ultra depression is that same concept right like he feels responsible like he let everybody down like he tells cat like i've made a mess of everything i've lost my family um and then tying it back to like this moment that just happened one of the tenets of ruse cat one of my favorite little minor crack ships is that ruse could have

again been working for that plausible deniability and Kat doesn't explicitly say it's Bruce Bolton she just says a man so again you know it's a crack show it's never going to happen but it's just really interesting because we can tell by the colors that these are Bolton colors but the fact that Kat doesn't say a Bolton man or Bruce Bolton just to give you like that little bit of plausible deniability for this like because again i think that cat was supposed to be at the bedding being abducted with edmure so i don't know and a counterpoint that i had from rowan was saying she was thinking that ruse wouldn't do the dirty work himself and i would

say like no ruse totally would do the dirty work himself like this is the person that likes picking the wings off dragonflies so i i do think that this man is roost bolton even though cat doesn't specifically say roost bolton interesting yeah yeah and there's something about like we said earlier the haziness uh that at this point she's so disconnected from reality and what's happening around her that all she sees is the flash of pink and red doesn't even identify who it is and as she becomes lady stoned heart you know it becomes more and more black and white or pink and red yeah she stopped seeing people's individuals you're afraid you're dead you're bolton you're dead you're you're a lannister you're dead. You're a Bolton, you're dead. You're a Lannister, you're dead, Brienne.

It's like, no, I'm not. I'm like, nope, you're a Lannister. I mean, that's what happens if you accept that golden cock, you know? Who said that? I'm so sorry. Who said that? All right. This is it.

This is the end. Jaime Lannister sends his regards. He thrust his longsword through her son's heart and twisted. Rob had broken his word, but Catelyn kept hers. She tugged hard on Aegon's hair and sawed on his neck until the blade grated on bone. Blood ran hot over her fingers. His little bells were ringing, ringing, ringing, and the drum went boom, doo, boom. Finally, someone took the knife away from her. The tears burned like vinegar as they round down her cheeks. Ten fierce ravens were raking her face with sharp

talons and tearing off strips of flesh, leaving deep furrows that ran red with blood. She could taste it on her lips. It hurt so much, she thought. Our children, Ned, all our sweet babes, Ned, all our sweet babes, Ricken, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Rob, Rob, please, please, Ned, make it stop. Make it stop hurting. The white tears and the red ones ran together until her face was torn and tattered, the face that Ned had loved. Catelyn Stark raised her hands and watched the blood run down her long fingers over her wrists beneath the sleeves of her gown. Slow red worms crawled along her arms and under her clothes. It tickles.

That made her laugh until she screamed. Mad, someone said. She's lost her wits. And someone else said said make an end and a hand grabbed her scalp just as she's done with jingle bell and she thought no don't don't cut my hair net loves my hair then the steel was at her throat and its bite was red and cold. I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop them. I was looking over, but I didn't see anyone moving forward, so I was like, I guess I'll just keep going. No, we were like, no, we're going to let Alex do all of it. In that moment, we both decided, we're like, that's it. You were in it.

I couldn't interrupt that. Yeah. No, I was like. That was hurtful. This is it. This is perfect. I'm in pain. That was.

Fuck. I'm like, that was. You did great because you somehow saw it through to the end and made an end of it. I mean, that's also it. You just brought it to life and it was just so emotional. Before you killed it. I was like, I need to let this happen. Yeah.

It was so good. Thank you for that, for everything, because now it hurts. Everything hurts. for everything because now it hurts everything hurts and i think this is uh as good a time as any for us to transition to the outro of catalan's character an overview of catalan and what's to come i'm very sad i'm like wow my chest hurts you know wow that was awful no that's just that was just like the appetizer now i get to fight about these cat opinions. I don't know about fighting. I'm going to be honest.

I think we're weary of fighting. And as we close up Catelyn's character and talk about kind of what her arc meant, I think there's something we brought up a lot in the beginning of our analysis in A Game of Thrones and in A Clash of Kings was how Daenerys' plot and catelyn and rob run so parallel to her right and there's a certain framing in mythology and in folklore and different stories of women not unlike catelyn like cersei medea cassandra being portrayed as mad women right losing? Losing their wit, sorceresses out of their mind. Catalin herself is painted by many readers and the series is having what's kind of called

the Medusa gaze, right? In the book, Medusa Gaze in Contemporary Woman's Literature by Gillian Albin, it breaks down that in societies that commonly place women under the power of a panoptic gaze, the Medusa gaze is an inspiring force, available for women to claim for themselves in order to remain strong and resilient against assault under the public eye,

which values women as more or less attractive objects. Medusa herself is seen kind of like an oxymoron, not unlike Cat. She's a victim, but a predator. Her gaze destroys, but protects. Her blood kills, but it also gives life. Katalin's a character that encompasses this, what it means to be seen by a female's character's eye and what power they do hold, and George chose that when setting up her point of view, right? He chose what would happen to Arthur's mom in playing with these power roles.

Cat's seen as someone sometimes obsessed to honor and pride to a fault, right? Only outwitted by being too compassionate as a mother and leader and caught between what's actually right and wrong, led down false paths by people who proclaim to be allies, family, and not. I think the framing and Catelyn losing her wits in having a mother's madness, a woman's madness, it's bullshit, right? It's a go-to framing for the Frey campaign throughout Westeros after this, for the Boltons, for the Lannisters. Anyone who's been through trauma of war and grieving and marriage and of course death of your family in that proximity would be anxious, nervous, and driven to a complete mental breakdown as she loses not only the end of her family, but the last bit of

control she's ever had to what's happening around her. Even before the wedding really kicks off in this chapter, her thoughts are disconnected from the reality of what's happening, and she's moving in a haze. She's exhausted from grief. Her death is a mercy kill, in a way, even though she doesn't even get that, right? She doesn't even get the mercy of that death. She's brought back by fire, which, of course, as I mentioned earlier today, I think that ties in so closely with Arya's plot and return to the Riverlands and Arya's search for mercy and understanding the way the world works herself you know i love how you've really like tied it all together in this idea of of madness because i mean it's not just madness it's grief and she's like i mean she's got a lot to be angry about it is a it is absolutely understandable that she is quite mad at the things that have happened in this moment again walter fray will have to apologize for himself today and i love how you've brought in medusa the medusa gaze i forgot that i had written an essay long long ago called the gorgons of

winterfell in july 2013 because i've been waiting for the winds of winter for a very long time um i've been waiting for so long. And I mean, like, Catelyn's daughter, right? She is very explicitly tied to the Gorgons in that one prophecy that portrays her with purple serpents in her hair. Catelyn is very much like the Gorgons in, like, there's some things that I'm like,

I stretched too far in this essay. I'm like, this is bullshit now. But some of it in terms of the idea of like the gorgons they have connections with water right just like catlin does and then also steno was like known for being the most ferocious of the gorgons and apparently uh had killed more men than both of her sisters combined and her name translates to the mighty or the forceful. And also one of our friends, Angry Biologist, points out that Catelyn's face after dying literally resembles one of the depictions of the Gorgons, which is from Medusa solving shows many of the features that would come to be associated with the gorgon bulging eyes which like a parody of a stare grossly protruding tongue puffy and lines lined facial skin and then also steno unlike medusa was immortal she exchanges her mortality to undergo the transformation that taking blood from the right side of her does and that blood has the ability to bring the dead back

to life and then also in terms of her being angry Mary Valentis and Anne de Vann reveal in their book Female Rage, unlocking its secrets, claiming its power that when they asked women what female rage looks like to them, it was always Medusa

though none of the women they interviewed could remember the details of the myth. It's just become very, very tied together. And again, there's a lot to be mad about. Because they gave her a path to happiness and they blew it up. Yeah. They blew it up. yeah they blew it up i mean even even if we're talking about like the madness or something like along with the mythological element just the way that women are seen with their emotions right like hysteria right yeah just the framing of this there is just so much misogyny in the way that

women are just viewed in general but particularly when it comes to expression and even when we see cat act there's always that element of she's acting out of her place like it's not a woman's place to be doing these things like she and it's one of these these contradictions in these in this tension and cat's pov because as we get to spend time with her like we're aware of just how capable how astute how just plugged into the west rose network that she is but she doesn't she isn't allowed to operate in to her best capacity and just keeping her in this position taking away her autonomy taking away her choice taking away her agency just reduces her to the state where yeah it's totally a futile jester um slapping uh edwin and killing jingle bell um but

what else does she have she's literally in that position with nothing else but her just body and she can only just act with her body because everything else has been stripped away from her so framing that as a sort of madness it's it is such a con job by the patriarchy to just put this person in this position and then blame themselves for reacting to it. Right, like we killed your kids. Yeah, she went mad. What? Like, come on, bro. So there's that. It's a wedding. It's a wedding, bro. Yeah, we just slaughtered everything, took the last of your kids and like what

oh you mad you mad and then it's just like what the fuck of course she's mad you can't pull that on her it's not fair uh and it's not fair to call it also like you like madness you know like this is a completely rational response of anyone going through what Catelyn Stark is going through. What else are you going to do? I think there's two things you do in that situation. Stand up and die like Rob. Stand up and try to take someone with you like Cat. What other options

are there besides karaoke? There are two wolves inside you. One wolf has given up on life. The other wolf has also given up on life, but at least tries to bite someone on the way out. Yeah. There are two wolves inside you, but unfortunately we did not bring them to the wedding. We left them outside in the kennels.

And then we killed them too. Yeah, yeah. And coming back to the sounds and the way that george uses the sounds in this chapter right i i love that call out of the tiny tinkling of jingle bells i guess jingle bells as she's breaking it's very much like her own moment of i guess the bells if you will um you were you were talking about denarius's plot right and that parallelism so i i wonder if that's something there because yeah but i i also like you know you were talking about this idea of patriarchy and it's kind of sad that like in other parts of this book and especially

within this book so much of cat's story is focused on her relationship with her father she also of course edmure because he's like right there and that tension that you've called out between them and then even like in regards to having always done her duty for Brandon Stark but in her final moments Kat comes back to Ned because she's getting close to him right with that death and I mean it's sad for many different reasons there's a million reasons for it to be sad i mean obviously it is just it's just sad because they were in love but also with their babes gone and taken from her and again motherhood being taken from her she's back to the role of just a wife but to whom because he's dead and she thinks of the face of that ned that she loved and destroys her own body and i mean again who said only lions have claws like in that that song, cat, I mean,

lions are just big cats, okay? They are a sub-genre of cat. And... Checks out, checks out. Yeah, she's using her cat claws to mutilate herself. And the one thing she asks is that her hair remain untouched, kind of a different coating, because it's the hair that Ned loved.

remain untouched kind of a different coating because it's the hair that ned loved and and it's just it just comes back to again her positioning herself against a man and i think that's kind of sad in a different way but it's just a great last few moments as it's written the closing of the chapter with the bells ringing and and i i think it's interesting the way they portrayed it on the show and i think that was successfully done too but what i love about here at the end because we have cat's interiority it actually wasn't a quiet moment at all right like the drumming is still fucking happening and this is i think the loudest point in the chapter because cat's internal thoughts are just it it feels just like screaming, right? It's all chaos. It's all like jumbled now. It's stream of consciousness, but not quite because

we saw the chronology, but you know, this is the loudest part. Yeah. I'd watched the Reigns of Castamere episode with Rowan a couple of days ago, and it was, I forgotten i mean i knew the red wedding happened and i like i remember that scene it was like in the context of an episode i forgot how they depicted it and they were going for like the sudden shock factor because the uh they love doing that yeah this yeah right because the scenes and the twins are only these the stingers of the episode they start including the episode but the majority of the episode is like here's john and egret here's whatever whatever whatever and so then you go back

to the wedding and uh it kind of just starts off at the actual ceremony and then the feast but yeah just like that moment of cat like i do think that was really effective acting on michelle like where she was doing the pleads like rob get up like get up please like please like that was really effective acting on michelle like where she was doing the pleads like rob get up like get up please like please like that was that was really you know difficult to watch because she's really putting it all in there and when it does come like that final after she's just like silent ron was saying like you know they didn't do the they didn't even put the effort to do the prosthetics for like her wrecking her face and that should have been like the stoneheart clue that we were going to get her but again like kind

of just showing because we don't get her internal thoughts and it's not like in a moment like that she's gonna be like you know like it's fucking hamlet like and then in this moment i think of all i've lost as you know so i do think i don't want to give the show credit i'll give michelle farley credit i think she acted very well in that scene but yeah it's just really interesting how in this moment still in the book reading it it is still very loud it is still very chaotic it still is keeping that that pace that boom boom boom of the drum with all these different beats so yeah it's just a very powerful scene as far as like a character moment goes, because I mean,

there's not a lot of POV duffs because Quentin was pretty quiet, right? Just, Oh, he began to scream. Like it's not this prolonged sense of like dread and suspense and action. It's like, I'm doing the thing.

Oh fuck. I'm not right. Like, I think it's a really powerful choice to have cat go through these emotions and show these emotions and then also show how this is being framed as an act of madness when as we're all arguing like what the fuck else was she gonna do truly what else yeah and then they even chose to like prolong that silence into the what is that called ending credits but yeah i think it's like

the only episode that didn't have like yeah i think it's like the only episode that didn't have like an ending song play was the the reigns of castamere i know that and i will say that the the killing of lady fray is also well chosen because i think it might have been a better choice to hone in on that for cat's particular arc than it was to kill a helpless child which is kind of not a very cool move compared to her who protected her child who was unable to protect himself in the face of a killer so i i do respect the show on that one that they change it to lady freaks i think that could be like a even darker parallel for cat destroying you know everything the patriarchy's done to her. Well, I mean, in that same episode they had the phrase kill

Talisa, right? So, lots of lots of violence on women. But I do like this one, because for me that's, this is, again, this is the moment that Lady Stoneheart is born, because now she's like, fuck it, we're killing innocents too. We're killing the kids. Fuck it.

Fuck it. They're snatching kids. Fuck it. Fuck it. They're snatching your people up. Yeah. Anyway, so now she's dead, right? As we move forward in this outro. But she's also back because it's Halloween. And this is the time things like that happen. But also because of the epilogue. And we know that she is Lady Stoneheart.

Yeah, so as we're getting introduced to Lady Stoneheart in the epilogue and we know that she is Lady Stoneheart yeah so as we're getting introduced to Lady Stoneheart in the epilogue I do love that we have the snow in the autumn in the Riverlands it's unnatural Merit Frey thinks I'm like I don't know maybe it is maybe it isn't or it depends on where you live I guess he calls out it's in the Riverlands but I'm like it makes sense to me that this is like setting the stage for her because

that's her she's the snow in the autumn in the Riverlands she's because that's her she's the snow in autumn in the riverlands she's got a hair like autumn she's the north which is her second home coming down to bring vengeance upon her first home and then also to just really drive that point like she's garbed all in gray the colors of house stark as i was thinking about like cat's pov and just some of the things that we've been touching on here. When we think about like the legacy of Kat, right? Like there's obviously Stoneheart, but, and even with Stoneheart, like what's that going to do?

And then I was thinking about it in the context of what Kat is saying repeatedly to Rob about legacy, about songs, about what it meant. And I, this is something that's kind of come more to a forefront in the last couple of years. But I was thinking about this in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement or BLM and the idea of your life being a hashtag. And as Kat is saying to Rob, like your life is worth more than a song to me. I'm thinking about the mothers of the movement where mothers of some of these slain people just talked about like what it meant to have your child die and in this way and what that meant for you what it meant for your lives the rest of your family and it's it was such a strong tie to cat for me as we've kind

of just been going through cat this year where you do see her arguing time and time again for rob to essentially abdicate like sue for peace give up the crown like your life means more to me than the song of the young wolf and for and as a person who's black in this country to have the idea of my life only mattering as a hashtag if i'm lucky and it goes viral and people care. Like that was just such a moment of realization of what that meant for George to put this in the story. Because again, like he starts out, as you guys have pointed out before,

where he wants to talk about like King Arthur's mom. And I do think that's just such a powerful framework for this because particularly in the context of rob stark sometimes it does feel like we and like we as the whole fandom just kind of like gloss over it right like yeah he was like kind of the best king at the start but you know it's really going to be about king john king brand queen sansa at the end and because their family of course they're going to care more about rob but just like what does that mean to just take this person who we see live? And through Kat, we have all these moments of like, I remember when you were a baby

and what I want more for you is just to just fucking live. And even as Kat is making all these different compromises, even as she's kind of conceding some of her other children, she's just like, like, your life just means more to me than this. And thinking about how in the last year in this nation, we've just seen so much more police violence towards black people towards indigenous folks towards Mexican Americans and other people in this country, and what it means for their families who are left behind carrying on that legacy and the sentiment of like your life is worth more than a song is worth more than a hashtag it leads to me your family but then you have this other way to look

at it is what does Rob's life mean in the context of northern independence right like this person becomes a symbol for them he becomes that martyr and the north might i mean they don't want rob dead but they are using that narrative so comparing the tension between his legacy of like the north as far as like you know that um chain of rulers compared to cat who's just like i'm seeing you as a person and I like I want you to live I want you to give up I want you to live past this and even in the final moments of Kat and Rob's interaction where she's just like walk out of here like yeah like what is that what does that mean for a mother for a family member to just have their heart break in front of them because their their child is is killed in this grotesque and for the record illegal way but you know what what can you do and so yeah like now

rob stark is part of this the song of northern independence and we do all assume you know the wolves are going to come back again the wolves in the night like this song of him but it's just it's just something that i grapple with just on a personal level to know that yes that's objectively a good thing because it is going to bring in their world and ours hopefully a push towards this justice but what does it mean for the people who are lost ricard karstark right his sons they were worth more than just like a song in the northern independence chapter he fucking tanked and committed treason for it and these are you know like high lords and ladies so much less what is you know the random dustin banner person think or the smith in the white harbor who their children died like they're also a part of this movement they're also part of this but they don't get the same songs they don't get the same hashtags and so just thinking about cats especially

this last part of her arc where she is just more heavily talking about like you mean more to me than this than this movement than this song than this push for no dependents because i want you to live and rob doesn't and if cat Kat doesn't, then she kind of does. So, yeah, just like in the context of this story, even though we do think that, you know, the Starks are going to rise again, the wolves are going to come back. We still are losing people and that still hurts and that still matters. And sometimes I do have to like kind of caution myself to not just like

think of Rob's terms as like, OK, Rob, you could have done this. You could have done this. Well, you fucked up, but don't worry. John's going to take it for a while. Then Sam's going to take it. Then it's all going to be good. But Rob was a person. Rob lived and Rob died.

Rob got killed in this really awful way. And so did Kat. And so what does that legacy mean? Like, because I'm sure like we know it's not it's not a question. Like all of them want Rob back. All of them want Kat back. But this is what they're left with is just the song of them. Yeah, absolutely.

And I thank you for, like, sharing everything that you did. And you see this on this, like, really personal level and how it connects to your life. And in terms of the violence that marginalized people, you've tied it to the experiences of what black people face and yeah there's there's that element of in which the legacy to what extent is it under your control anymore right i think kat is trying to exert it but you know when it came to brandon rickon like she had hoped to have more control over, like, what that narrative is, what that legacy is, and having agency, and as opposed to it being warped into some other thing, into some other memory.

Yeah, I mean, they don't even get the truth. Meaning. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. They don't even get the truth. right they don't even get the truth like then like how do you keep it so that your death still has meaning in and of itself and doesn't become even though i guess you know arguably the books say men's lives have meaning now their deaths but anyways um but i think that that's another side of what you're saying here right that to cat rob's life had meaning not his death not him becoming a martyr not murder murdered in the rallying cry yeah yeah and it's true that the stark kids are going to carry that legacy on right as cat is forced to become a silent sister and has her voice box pretty fucked up from all of this

as she goes on to become kind of an agent of fiery vengeance right as we finish finish out cat's arc as she's brought back to life later on yeah this this silent sister aspect is so interesting because like cat i mean we do talk about like how she can't use her voice to affect this political change a lot but she is very she's a pov right so we do get a lot of her thoughts but then being brought back in this in this way to again just be like in the beginning of storm just you are repressed in a way you can't leave this room you can't speak now you can't you can't do these things like that's just such an interesting way to take this person who at one point was probably had the kind of the most agency because she goes from like winterfell to king's landing to the veil to river run to the reach uh casuals

keep to storms in and back so again like she moves around so much and then just keeps getting more and more restricted and now doesn't have a voice yeah she doesn't have a voice and she's lost everything that she wants but as as lady stone heart is finally acting upon her desires she's kind of become pure id in terms of that vengeance and like that i want i want i want that's been going through her entire storyline it's rearing its head again in brienne's chapters right as Brienne's told well she wants this she wants this she wants this because she can't speak for herself anymore because she's been silenced but yet she's getting to exact that will um even though her voice again is taken from her as it

always has been and then they there's something there too when it comes to what you want right um being and being able to carry that through she forces brienne to choose and i find that interesting because as you pointed out she had agency in a lot of what we've seen in the story but she hasn't always throughout her life as we see in her memories and has been denied choice herself and she's like well you have two choices there are two wolves inside of you oh my god they are going to kill you know oh my god well and i mean that's something that really stood out to me this read-through was that when cat's tears mix with her blood weeping blood down her face uh at the end of ned's arc you have liana another mother who was silenced by, you know, Jon's birth.

Rhaegar's dick in Jon's birth. Wow. Lyanna was, you know, she was also silenced in a mother whose agency was wildly taken away from her. And Catelyn's story kind of sings the song of these mothers that George refuses to sing the song of. God damn it. It gets the chance to sing that song and to see the things she was made to do or the things that she forced herself to do and the things her sister was forced to do in the light of this patriarchy and what these choices led to for them and how they suffered.

I think something that's so fascinating from Kat as a POV especially like the reactions around her are in regards to her motherhood and for me one of the key engines of Kat's story the tension is her desire to be a mother but she's not she's choosing herself in a sense that the the desire to keep going back to Winterfell to keep babying her her babies. That's what she wants to do, but she's not just a mother. She's Hoster's daughter, Edmure's sister, she's Robb's advisor, she's this de facto counselor in this war effort. So she just has this tension because she is a mother and she's like self-actualized and identifies, and that's a lot of the impetus behind her thoughts. But we clearly see her choosing other things and wishing she could just be a mother and i'm not at all wanting to say like uh motherhood

is like a lesser position or anything like that i'm just saying like in the context of the conversation around cat the way we see mothers in this series they become mothers and they cease being anything else they're just a mom and we we're seeing Kat. She is a mom. And there is not, you know, it's not just being a mom, but she also has the rest of her life that she's constantly negotiating against. And that tension is just so fascinating from a feminist perspective because we see her actualize through this. Like she wants to go back to Winterfell and baby her babies, but her dad's dying, her

brother's in chains, like her sons at war, her other sons at war, her other daughters are prisoners. Like she can't just isolate herself or her motherhood can't just like isolate her actions because she's a full ass person because women and people who carry children and raise them, they're not just that facet of their life. They have lives, you know, like like their lives have meaning not their motherhoods to kind of remix that quote and so it's just so fascinating to see cat just so often dismissed as a mom or just the mom or just the nagging mom because i the one thing that y'all said that shook me this entire kind of cat journey was when y'all said that that cat was rob's antagonist like that shook me versus i was like wait no y'all make a that cat was Rob's antagonist. Like that shook me versus I was like, wait, no, y'all make a point. She's like she's she's spitting truth.

Your honor, she's spitting truth. But like just like that tension of the way she wants to live in this world and the way that she doesn't have issues being a mother is still satisfying to her. And she's still integrated with that. Yet that's not the totality of her life. Like Catlin Tully stark isn't just five people's moms sorry john but she's also this whole other person with all these other aspects of her lives and they are in they're in conflict because of the external but they're not in

conflict in cat's pov she just can't be in two places at once so when she says she wishes she could you know shadow clone juicer herself into five people well yeah because that would be helpful to her kids but she just has to make these decisions these compromises um not because she's not a mother but because she's a mother and there are other parts of her life too so i just want to throw that in there one of my cat takes and she takes such joy in it that's what brought her joy and it's been taken that aspect of her life was where she found happiness because her dad's dying for her brothers her brother's like not close to her her husband's dead and like she hasn't been able to build bonds i think it's something george has done strangely or failed the chase

really built any bonds with any women or had any friends but i think um that i mean there's an aspect of in which deeply patriarchal or extremist like patriarchal societies isolation is a big part of how that gets reinforced in womanhood but anyway um but yeah i mean for that that technically that was the rob pov it was the rob pov chapter not the catlin not within the catlin chapter in which i said i did i said cat journey specifically don't try to make haps and rules they were right mayhaps and i mean it does boil back to especially for for Kat, to the, if I look back, I am lost. You know, she can't go back. She can't.

Can't go forward either. So. Yeah. She's got a cha-cha, just got a dance in place. Cha-cha, real smooth. Yep. That is. And that will be covered someday in the epilogues.

Someday. That's the dance with dragons. The cha-cha slide. I get it. Oh my that's the dance with dragons the cha-cha slide oh my god the dance of dragons the white girls oh my god the dance with dragons is the cha-cha slide okay i see okay and that means we cast a mere karaoke all right okay okay well this is a party idea but not a party i'm going to i would not go to this party with you all. Sounds like a risky party. Yeah.

And in a pandemic, Lovato, I feel like they're all risky, you know? Yeah, also true. All risky. Alex, thank you so much for joining us to close out Catalan forever. In a storm of swords, especially Catalan forever, in a storm of swords, especially Catalan 7. Please let us know where we can find you at on the internet, around anything you want to plug. Thank you again so much for having me. It has been an absolute red wedding of a time.

It's been so fun. My name's Alex. You can find me on Twitter, anywhere kind of on the internet, P-A-R-R-A-L-E-X-0-8-8-9. I'm happy to share cat thoughts with you and anti-patriarchy thoughts with you. That's what I want to plug. Down with the patriarchy. Again, it's been such a fucking pleasure to be able to be another one of your guests for a little bit.

And then more than just, just bring in Rickard Stark's pain to you all. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. than just bringing Ricard Stark's pain to you all. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. You're welcome back anytime. We'll have you again for sure. Cersei confirmed? Is that it?

Is that what it is? I mean, eventually. Mayhaps. Mayhaps. Mayhaps. Mayhaps. Well, if you want to see some of those cattle intakes, or if you want to make some cattle intakes of your own,

you can get us those over at our social media. Tweet at us at Girls Gone Canon, C-A-N-O-N, or send us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Well, we finally did it. We've rated it. I'm doing subscriptions. It's your turn bitch and and along with sending us

an email if you want to keep up with us and get that next episode when we start doing Brienne chapters allegedly be be sure to subscribe to us on Google Play Apple

podcasts pod bean where this is all hosted, Pandora, Spotify, iHeartRadio, I'm out of practice, Acast, Stitcher, Overcast, and I mean,

anywhere that the RSS feeds have decided that they're going to just put us. Yeah, we're there. We are there. And hey, if you're not already a patron, we'd love to have you as a patron of Girls Gone Canon at patreon.com slash girls gone canon. We put out a bonus episode every month about something we're reading, whether it's a song of ice and fire, his dark materials or something else. We also have a discord where patrons in the Thunder tier and above, $10 and above,

can come hang out. And we do a happy hour slash brunch each month, this month, 10.30, October 30th, 1-3pm, Eliana Standard Time, or Eliana Time. It's Eliana Standard Time. And, uh, we'll see you there. Patreon.

As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thank you again to another one of our hosts. Yeah, I've been another one of your guest hosts, Alex.

Yes. Well, we'll see you in Brienne's chapters. Yay, more gender stuff. Woo! A theme. A theme. A theme of themes.