Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 148 — AFFC Brienne VI featuring Lo the Lynx

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Brienne arrives on the Quiet Isle, where the scuttlebutt says that the Hound is at peace. But as Brienne confronts Westeros's limitations on their gender, Brienne finds themselves at anything but peace. Lo the Lynx joins us to talk about the narrow paths before Brienne, gender nonconformity and religion, and continuous acts of claiming one's identity.  Where to find Lo:  Lo the Lynx's Website — https://lothelynx.wordpress.com/    Lo's Twitter — https://twitter.com/lo_the_lynx  Links Mentioned:  Rhaegar's Rubies (comment, user now deleted) — https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1memt6/spoilers_all_rhaegars_rubies/cc8h3eg/?context=3    My Words to Victor Frankenstein Above the Village of Chamounix: Performing Transgender Rage — https://read.dukeupress.edu/glq/article/1/3/237/69091/My-Words-to-Victor-Frankenstein-Above-the-Village  Music credits: Silver Lake by Rafael Krux Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/5341-silver-lake- License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Rivers Of The Sky by Rafael Krux Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/5340-rivers-of-the-sky- License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl] Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage  

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire, episode 148, Brienne 6 in A Feast For Crows featuring featuring our friend Lo, the Lynx. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, today we are joined by special guest Lo, and maybe also by other special guest Tutiki. Hello, yes, I'm Lo. Tutiki will not be joining us. So Toteki will not be joining us. She's closed out from the room,

which it always is when I'm recording things or having important meetings, because she's very cute and a distraction. Lo, I'm so excited to have you on for an A Song of Ice and Fire cast. We had you last year on for some His Dark Materials podcasting. Tell everyone here where they can find you on the internet and read some of your works that you've written. Yes, you can find me on Twitter at Lodelinks with underscores between the words. And on my blog at lodelinks.wordpress.com.

Yeah. Yeah, Lo has done some impressive writing and work on gender studies and queer analysis in A Song of them several times already throughout this run maybe some of the other POVs as well so we were like I mean obviously we gotta have Loan for this yeah it was kind of funny when he announced it and everyone in the discord was like okay so when is Loan coming on

and I'm like you had to keep this secret also for so long you were I felt a little bad for you too, because people were guessing who the next POV was. Lo was just conspicuously absent to me. Lo was an agent of chaos. Oh, that's right, Lo was an agent of chaos.

That's right. Lo was an agent of chaos. So over at the Discord, you get access to the Discord if you are a patron member at thunder tier or above and our thunder tier patrons like to speculate about the pov whatever the next pov is that we're choosing everyone's always guessing they think there's a method to the madness which there is to our credit uh and they always are guessing and Lo knew for a very long time and Lo had to keep their mouth shut for a very long time about it, but was sowing discord in the discord, was just sowing chaos in there saying, what if it's so-and-so? What if it's Daenerys because of this thing?

Yeah, I was impressed. Interesting. That's a good thought. You were like, that's a good thought. That makes sense. And I'm like, God damn it, Lo. I had a had a lot of fun it was fun i'm glad you had fun you've had a taste of playing god in the discord is what i'm saying uh now you know what power feels like yeah um powers well lo doesn't know the next pov i do not to be fair for once this is you know often we get people come on

for the last guest and they have to know before everyone else right last guest of a POV always knows so you don't know that yet maybe you'll winkle it out of us we'll see we'll see I have my theories but I'm not I'm not sure I'm not sure it's Sansa

I mean obviously it's Yemi again so but I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's Sansa. I mean, obviously it's Jaime again. I mean, that actually could make sense too. You know, maybe if we invoke Jaime again, we'll end the pandemic. You know, we started the pandemic off with Jaime. Bring it full circle, you know, that's... I don't know if I'm willing to do that for everyone. I'm sorry if that sounds selfish, but that's a lot. I don't know if I'm willing to do that for everyone I'm sorry if that sounds selfish

but that's a lot I don't know, anyways well, we're so excited you're here and joining us welcome back to the podcast, you always have a seat at the cast and we'll do a quick little bit of housekeeping up top here and we'll jump on into some of the really

good Brienne stuff first thing, this month we will be putting out a Patreon episode on a different series, not A Song of Ice and Fire, nor His Dark Materials, but on A Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, one of my favorites. I'm so excited to read this book. If you are into Greek mythology, into sadness, being sad mostly, and if you just are looking for something to read,

pick up A Song of Achilles. It's very good. And we're going to put something out on that this month for patrons in the stranger tier and above because patrons in the stranger tier and above have access to bonus episodes every month, every month on their private Patreon RSS feed. Yeah.

It's a good book so far very much enjoying it and i mean not just if you're a fan of all those things if you're a fan of good writing and language prose yeah words come together very much enjoy the one after this cersei the other one is i will say once you read the song of achilles you have to read cersei too because the imagery uh cersei being helios's daughter especially and just like all the imagery is so good and some of the really good gender stuff going on in it i really like that one more even i would say but uh they're both really good i do think that's the beauty of a lot of authors you know they their first book is good but a lot of the time unlike with bands again unlike with musical artists the the second book is better sophomore albums sometimes hit or miss second books tend

to be you know really good as people are hitting their stride other things if you enjoy coming together with other people or if you also perhaps are an agent of chaos, as Lo is. We do have a Discord, as Chloe mentioned. And once a month, on said Discord, for patrons in the Thunder tier and above, we have a brunch slash happy hour. And that is this coming Saturday. Yes, tomorrow, if you are part of the public, December 18th,

1-3pm, Eastern Time. Yeah, and what's our theme this month, Aliana? Reindeer Games! At long last, it is real. Lo, and what's our theme this month, Aliana? Reindeer games! At long last it is real. Lo, you can perhaps inform us a little bit about reindeer. Absolutely. And their games. Lo actually has had quite

a few slides at previous potluck presentations about reindeer, so that's why. Yeah, I mean, last time I talked about eating them, so maybe a different vibe this time. That's different, yeah. I did show your slides from our harvest brunch. Your PowerPoint slides. I showed

them to my husband's mother's partner who's Swedish. And he was corroborating all of it and telling me, oh yeah, I used to eat this here and then and this time. And it was really crazy. So maybe you'll bring some reindeer knowledge for us. I'll try. Some of the games

that they play. Speaking of animals. Oh my god. Of course, we will not be having, a reminder, His Dark Materials episode this month in December. You will have to wait till next year however, we're going to

make up for missing it in December. We just need a little quick break at the holidays. I know you all probably feel the same. Holidays are crazy. But we're going to have two episodes in January. And two episodes means we are going to have one episode at the front of the month and one episode at the end of the month, at the back of the month, Eliana wants me to say. At the end of the month. At the back of the month. Eliana wants me to say. We'll have a song of ice and fire in between. We're going to finish Brienne in January. And we will also start our new point of view. I believe the week after that.

So that's exciting. Very exciting. Lots to get stuffed in the middle of January with. Yes. Sandwiched month. To start things off. It's also kind of like Janice, you know, the god for whom January is named. Facing both ways. That's what we're

doing with the historic materials. Chloe's just nodding. Lo's also just nodding. Let Eliana have her fun. Yeah, we're having lots of fun. Look at all the fun we're having. Well,

I love that quote. I'm sure you all hear me say it all the time. I don't know why. That scene. I love quoting it. And, I mean, let's keep the fun going, right? So, speaking again, once more, of Discord, here's a comment from our friend Maddie. This is fulfilling our emails and tweets of note.

Yeah, our friend Maddie left a comment about last week's episode, Brienne 5, and said, I met the part where you're talking about Brienne as a threat to Tarly's masculinity. I think it's not just that Brienne breaks the line of gender norms, but her skill and paper shield make him unable to react in the violent way that he did react to Sam when he disappointed his conception of gender norms. I just thought that was an interesting insight. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what like really pisses him off that Brienne is not just breaking gender norms but

performing masculinity in a really good and strong way and I think that's what really gets to him so yeah, love that comment from Maddie as well not only is it awful to him and terrible and annoying and frustrating

but also it's legal that's the worst, he's like it's legally backed it is being legally backed by honestly i mean i'm just gonna say tommen and cersei's rulership is very progressive you know they're all about guns they're all about freedom of religion yes cats yeah exactly fuck religion guns. They're like really weird, all whatever. Yeah, the only policy I'm really against is the outlawing of beets and neeps. I quite like these kinds of root vegetables.

It's the only thing that I'm putting my foot down on. But yeah. I mean, as you said, it's the legality. In every single spectrum of power, right? Brienne's got it and Randall Tarly doesn't and Randall Tarly's like I don't understand I'm doing it all the things right

why does this freaking gender freak do it better than me and have the backing of the crown I don't get it why is society making out with her and not me? It's very frustrating for him, I can imagine. I'm glad he's frustrated.

Oh my god. Agreed. Well, if you have any comments on this episode or other episodes that you're listening to in your reread with Girls Gone Canon, feel free to send us an email over at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com, C-A-N-O-N,

or a tweet or a DM at the same place, girlsgonecanon, or join the Discord and, you know, raise your voice up and leave some awesome comments like Maddie here did. Yeah, or you can leave a Podbean comment as Thunderclap did last week. Or any of the other venues.

Send a dove. Send a raven. Oh my god, send a raven. Do you accept smoke signals? I have to learn it first, but theoretically I do. Let me record it and then slowly translate it. Hmm.

Okay, and if you run out of ways to send those messages, you could always send them through a storm, right? Like a round of lightning, one could say. Wow, I was thinking dreams, but well done. Well done. Yes, through a storm of sorts. Let's talk about what we missed, right, in the lightning round, starting with Samwell 3.

Sam tries to punch some sense into Darren but ends up thrown into the canal he's fished out by Zondo who believes in his dragon story Jamie 3 Jamie releases prisoners at Heron Hall and punches Ronin in the face lots of punching

lots of punching and then we have Cersei 6 Cersei Lannister rearms the faith interesting choice the reaver victorian agrees to go on a journey for his brother but inwardly plans to take the treasures for himself jamie four in dairy, Lancel plans to join the Warrior Sons. Jamie realizes Cersei was cheating on him. He tells Ser Ilyn his truth.

And then we are at Brienne. And Brienne is led to an island where peace has been hard earned. She seeks Sansa Stark, but uncovers truth in war, death which only reinforces her mission protect the weak and innocent at all costs why is she so good I love Brienne so much I know

sorry I only have so many chapters left to say that one day we might have more chapters but for now we have this one, and it starts with... The septry stood upon an upthrust island half a mile from the shore, where the wide mouth of the trident widened further, still, to kiss the bay of crabs. Even from shore its prosperity was apparent. Its slope was covered with terraced fields, with fishponds down below and a windmill above, its wooden sailcloth blades turning slowly in the breeze off the bay. Brienne could see sheep

grazing on the hillside, and storks wading in the shallow waters around the fairy landing. Sheep. Nah. Yeah, I actually think it's super interesting that we have Brienne going to what is basically a monastery.

And it actually ties in to a lot of the religious themes in Brienne's story that you were talking about last week. And I also think it's interesting because I was just recently reading a great book called Trans and Genderqueer Subjects in Medieval Hagiography, which is a collection of articles, which is edited by Dr. Alicia Spencer-Hall and Dr. Blake Gutt. And that book discusses different medieval religious figures who could be read as trans or genderqueer. And among those stories, there are several about monks who are assigned female

at birth, but who passed and lived as men, and them sort of finding sanctuary and a place to start an EU in these monasteries. So I think it's really interesting that we have Brianne, who I read as maybe not entirely cisgender, traveling to

a monastery. But I mean, some people would argue that people like these trans medieval monks are just women trying to access male-only spaces in a patriarchal world, but a lot of contemporary researchers would argue that that's a bit reductive. And of course, the practicality of it could be part of it, but there is nothing saying that that's all there is to it. And people often assume that being trans or gender non-conforming is something new, but historical records show that trans and gender non-conforming people have always existed. There have always been people who have not identified with the gender they were assigned at birth.

To assume that someone who is assigned female at birth but passes as a man is just doing that because of sexist oppression is honestly a bit insulting. And I mean, also as we see in Brienne's story, it's hardly more safe to travel through the world as a gender non-conforming person. I think it's interesting to consider Brienne in relation to these trans- gender non-conforming monks because of their connection to religion and because I tend to read Brienne as trans or gender non-conforming. Like you also talked about last week Brienne obviously doesn't have words like trans, non-binary, gender non-conforming to describe themselves but I think that a lot of the emotions that they express in relation to gender has a lot

of like, trans vibes. And regardless of what words they use to describe themselves, it should be clear to the modern reader that what they face when traveling through the world is transphobia. I like the way that you've put it in that, especially when you consider like, also being stuck in these monastery kind of places or going to a religious place where not only do you feel in your soul, spiritually, like you've been kind of, you know, rejected by everything there is in this whole entire world that was built and created by some sort of higher power that everybody is telling you like having to then go to these places and still be the strongest person and knight and hold the same moral values without breaking in the face of what you're facing whether it's from people mockery from people or physical and sexual violence like we talked about a lot last week that's really hard and it's a very complex situation to land Brienne in.

Absolutely and I like how you've pointed out that what Brienne faces as moving through the world that is transphobia right like there's there's layers to the different ways that patriarchal norms manifest and oppress different people and different bodies and also this sounds like a really interesting book in in general, because it's a great reminder of how the conception of gender has changed, right? It hasn't always been the way that we think of it. We think that it's, or take it for granted, or assume that in the past, it was much more oppressive, but that's not necessarily always the case. It has evolved to become much more, I think, narrow, and then is changing again constantly over time.

And I also just want to quickly add, because I learned this word just now, that hagiography, no idea if I'm saying that right or not, is the writing of the lives of saints. So very cool, very cool that people are looking into this. Yeah, I also learned that word when

seeing the book. Someone was tweeting about medieval trans things, and I was like, oh, I also learned that word when seeing the book. It was like someone was tweeting about medieval trans things, and I was like, oh, I need this book. But yeah, it's about saints and holy people who you can read as trans or genderqueer, basically. It's amazing. Yes, exactly. Duh.

Saint Brienne. I also, coming back to Brienne, in this setting, right, in a monastery setting, the Quiet Isle in general, it kind of almost feels like a holy journey, right, to the Quiet Isle, going through the mud, as we'll see later, the faith, as we'll talk about, and some of the other kind of just imagery and things. It feels like a pilgrimage. It feels like a pilgrimage being done for higher power meaning. And pilgrimages are usually done for new meaning on yourself,

new meaning on religion, new meaning on nature and your place in all of it. Sometimes to the place of birth or death for founders or saints or to the place of their calling or awakening or to their connection, whether it's verbal or visual, with the divine. And they would go to places where miracles were witnessed or performed, locations where deities were said to be lived or housed. But here, however, Brienne is going somewhere that there is no magic, right? There is no special spirit that lives here. What Brienne finds and learns is in both equal parts more simple and more complicated. It's life and death, a simple life. They all are living in accordance to their means.

They're living sustainably. They've created life so that they can sustain. They're on the quiet aisle. And what they give and take for one another, they use to help outsiders as well. I think the way that George has laid this out is great, because we have two chapters ago Cersei re-arms the faith. Cersei says, sure, whatever, fuck religion, I don't care what you do. One chapter ago though, Lancel, whose life is pretty shattered thanks to Cersei exploiting him, he tells Jaime he plans to join the Warriors' Sons, which is, you know, basically a religious gang forming up because of all of everything gone wrong, where he hopes to find some sort of glory or power for himself, right, for the suffering

he's gone through. But Cersei's rearming of the faith, not counting the exploitation of Lancel, it directly funnels a pipeline of young men and women who have nothing left, whether after the War of the Five Kings or from before, and they've just been surviving, going straight back into war for another person, the Faith. And the Elder Brother and Maribald in this chapter show that the true Faith wouldn't be encouraging this combat, because the true-hearted religious folk like themselves, we see their mission in this chapter is helping people. Yeah, and I think this is an example of how George really complicates

religion in an interesting way in Feast. And sort of showing that while organized religion can be used for evil, like building an army, or something like that. Any kind of power can be used for evil, but religion and

faith can also be used for healing. So do you use your faith to hurt people or to heal people? Another example would be how the High Sparrow forces Cersei to make a walk of atonement to pay for her crimes, compared to the people on the Quiet Isle who help broken men heal. Both actions are on the surface based in religion but they are very clearly very different and i really like the connection that you've drawn there between faith and healing as well because i think i i see lancel joining the warrior sons as that's lancel's journey to try and find meaning in his life after everything because because he right i think broke quite a bit

at the black water also because i mean his family was pretty abusive to him his extended family and i see kind of like the damp hair story right the damp hair ends up turning to faith to find healing and granted the damp hair also ends up reinforcing dumb shit as we see in this book and that blows up in his face but um you know that there's something to be said here of i mean religion is kind of in the story a tool can be used in many different ways uh for good for bad and also but in regards to lancel and all those people who are joining the Warrior Sons. I think that's also a useful thing to see of how in times of larger societal hardship, you have all these vacuums and areas of people who are desperate and religion can end up becoming a tool for radicalization,

becoming a tool or for radicalization, violent radicalization and extremism, as we're seeing with, I think, some of the people of the faith, though, I mean, I mean, some of them are right, in terms of, yeah, the houses are corrupt, and the powers are abusing them. But it's all it's all complex. Let's see how it plays out in the later books. Yeah, Sept and Marabal points out their destination the salt pans but first we eat as they admire the scenery pod asks why is it called the quiet isle atonement answers marabald only the elder brother and proctors speak and the proctors only get one day a week to speak and that day is the most annoying of the week because they have to hear all the sins from everyone, and Sandor won't shut the fuck up about the Stark sisters. Podrick likens this to the Silent Sisters, parroting a rumor that their tongues have been removed, but it's just a rumor, Maribald disputes.

Mothers have been cowing their daughters with that tale since I was your age. There's no truth to it then and none now. A vow of silence is an act of contrition, a sacrifice by which we prove our devotion to the seven above. For a mute to take a vow of silence, it would be akin to a legless man giving up dance. I do appreciate Maribold's clarification here on the nature of sacrifice, that sacrifice is actually about someone giving up something of themselves, that they are the ones someone giving up something of themselves, that they are the ones who have to live with their own consequences within their own life rather than someone else doing it for them. And also this idea that atonement, you know, remorse, apology, that it is an act. It's not just one single moment or act, right? It is a

continuous act. It's not a transactional thing wait so you're saying that a sacrifice you you have to give something up that actually affects you for it to be a sacrifice like you have to consciously that's very interesting i wonder what that could mean and what connotations that could have on for the plot moving forward in this series yeah it's almost like hypothetically speaking burning a child who yet magical power isn't like a true sacrifice yeah so like if jesus put a rabbit on the cross it's his favorite rabbit to be sure like it is his favorite rabbit but if jesus had put a rabbit on the cross instead everything all would have gone the same? Is that? Yeah, yeah.

Or even a lamb. But, you know, it turns out, yeah, it's almost, as you said, right? You're not supposed to get something better out of it for yourself. And also, you're the one who is supposed to, something bad is supposed to happen to you, yourself. Oh, my God. Literally. This is all really interesting. That's what you're talking about, right?

Very interesting. God. Theoretically, hypothetically. This Azura High guy is an asshole, is what you're saying, is that? Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Well. Anyone who wants to sleep beneath a roof must walk with Septon Marabal down a very special path, the Path of Faith. It's very muddy don't get caught in the quicksand he says or you might drown brienne notes that the path of faith is also crooked and this is the part where my most favorite character shows up right because we find out that

dog rather than bounding ahead is staying very very close, because Dog realizes that, uh, we gotta stay close if we're not gonna drown. And so, Brienne follows behind the others' tracks, and then behind them is Pod, then Heil Hunt, and Maribold continues to lead everyone. Also, there's this moment where Dog gets into a skirmish with a crab, and I'm like, oh yes, because the Bay of Crabs is close by, that's why there are crabs, and also dog, anyway. You can tell if I wrote this outline. I love dog. I put so much dog into this outline.

Isle is confused as to why they are walking away from the quiet isle as it was towards it, and Mirabal explains. Faith. Is this, Puff, aalde explains. Faith. Is this path a metaphor? Hmm. Hmm.

Sounds suspicious. Can't be. It couldn't possibly be a metaphor. No. But I mean, yeah. Basically what we get told is that it's easier to travel along a path well trodden. Staying off the path is risky. I'm just going to have to go a bit academic on you all again.

Because I think this path is really interesting as a metaphor. And because one of my absolute favorite scholars is Dr. Sara Ahmed. And she writes a lot about paths and lines when discussing how society is structured basically and her argument is that from the moment we are born we're sort of set on this path that we're expected to follow based on our assigned gender or sexuality, race, class etc and we're perceived as normal if we follow this line that we're expected to follow and i'll just quote a hummus book queer from anology a bit where she says to follow a line

might be a way of becoming straight by not deviating at any point i have always been struck by the phrase a path well trodden a path is made by the repetition of the event of the ground being trodden upon. We can see the path as a trace of past journeys. The path is made out of footprints, traces of feet that tread and that in treading create a line on the ground. When people stop treading the path it may disappear and when we see the line of the path before us we tend to walk upon it as a path clears the way. So basically it's easier to walk on a path well trodden, a path that other people have taken before you. But there's nothing saying that you have to walk on this specific path, that this is the path

that needs to exist in society, in the world, in nature. It's just a path well trodden that people have taken before. But if you choose another path, if you deviate from the straight line, you tend to be seen as a deviant. And I think so much of that is what Brianne goes through throughout the story, as they sort of try to make their own path and keep bumping up against obstacles because of it. Ahmed would call this stopping devices, because when you don't follow the institutional line,

you come up against these devices that stop or block your path. Like, to take an example from my own life, I was retrieving a parcel from the post office a while back, and the person at the desk at first didn't want to give it to me, because they read my name low as masculine and they didn't read me as masculine so it's like swaying off the path literally stops you in your everyday

life I love the way you put that especially like because there's so much detail too of how the path like disappears below their feet as they walk and it even kind of reminds me of queen's crown right when brands at queen's crown and getting to the path it's underwater as

well but uh so many people have probably come this way as we come to learn that the elder brother and septim marabold have probably brought many people through this path people that are really not having an easy path in life to walk beyond that, like before this, right? And when you picture that as the path that's difficult to walk just to get to the quiet aisle, the place where maybe a little bit of peace could exist, a little bit of peace could be carved out. And also like the metaphor that if everybody was thoughtful and conscientious of their behavior and those around them and helpful giving their whole heart to try to

help people, maybe we could have little pockets like this everywhere. Maybe it wouldn't just be a random fucking quiet aisle in the middle of nowhere that you have to go through mud and high water to get to. Yeah, and you have to have someone show you the way, because

otherwise you won't find it. And I think that's a lot of... It's very difficult to find a new way to live in society if someone won't show it to you. It's like Mira said in the show, it's the only line that I ever think

about from the show all the time, but you know, just because... As opposed to all the fun we're having? The line that I think about all the time? Yes. No, but some people will always need help. That doesn't mean they're not worth helping. I really like this passage that you brought up from Dr. Ahmed and what you're saying about paths but i kind of

read it a little differently right because sir heil is saying why don't we just fucking go straight for the aisle it's right there i can see it it's right there right and that's the path for many people when they are cisgender right or they get to live a heterosexual life they get to see the straightforward line of this is the path that I take, and I can go there and reach the quiet aisle, reach rest and peace. But for people like Brienne, right? The path, because we see Maribold

doesn't exactly know the path, right? Maribold has to use the quarterstaff to sometimes feel it out. And sometimes the path does stray, very much like Brienne's journey as a knight errant, but also in finding themselves. And you have to feel that path out. It isn't obvious. It sinks beneath the water. It's clouded. And Mirabal, it's almost like meditative, the way that it's written, having to go through it. And it's still faith still faith right it's a hope that at the end you're still gonna

find peace with yourself um ultimately even if your path doesn't always seem obvious yeah definitely there's lots of great muddy imagery about this uh it smells bad though you could you could smell it while you're reading right like it smells like some sort of just pondy, gross, briny rot. When they get to the aisle, it's ringed by stones and three men meet them. They're brothers. They're dressed like it. Brown and done robes, wide bell sleeves,

pointed cowls, wool wound around their lower faces because as Eliana wants me to point out, we are in the middle of a pandemic. Damn it. And I will say it's very clearly said that you can only see their eyes uh that it's very difficult to see them all you can see are their eyes very very specific i really the third brother yeah eliana going to get groceries uh the third brother welcomes marabald and company and there's fish stew and a fairy coming in the

morning for them. Yeah, I appreciate that right away as soon as they're like, yeah, you can stay. By the way, tonight's menu is fish stew and I just like that. Yeah, very good. Good and clear service at this place. Exactly. Yeah, it's rude not to have guests and tell them what, like, you're just gonna

be here. Like, it's good to tell them what they're eating I would say. Yeah, imagine though being told that and what if you didn't like the menu item tonight? Do you go all the way back out the, like, really difficult path to find a different meal? You can go fuck off all on your own. Yeah. You'll eat it and you'll like it. I mean, it's probably good. It does sound like it's good later on. We'll get to the food portion. Maribald introduces Brother Narbert, who's a proctor, to the crew. And then he stops at Brienne for being a woman. And there are no women on the Quiet Isle, only occasionally. And the ones who are there are sick, hurt, or pregnant. And Brienne

may be none of those things, but Maribald explains, Lady Brienne is a warrior maid, hunting for the hound. And this startles Narbert and he's like so to what end are you hunting the hound and Brienne gives a very smooth answer very proud of Brienne for like being very suave here Pat's Oathkeeper and goes his and it's like

Brother Narbert you can see like maybe a gear turning in his head like do we need to be that extreme I thought we were just like I'm also like I thought we were still just asking questions on this detective noir journey still, we weren't at action yet. And so Narbert hesitates and Op's like, I think I will let the elder brother decide what to do here. Yeah, I mean, this scene is great for many reasons. And one is that Narbert literally just lists the acceptable reasons for a woman to be there.

And Brienne doesn't fit any of these. And I think it's interesting that Sceptre Marible describes Brienne as a warrior maid, which is sort of interpellating them as both the warrior and the maid. And I think that makes

for a quite obvious comparison to another warrior maid of history Jönnevark like the maid of Orleans compared to the maid of Tarth and I've written like a whole essay comparing these two characters these two people

Jönnevark is an actual person not a character so I'm not going to go over all of that. But I wanted to note some things. So yeah, besides what they're called, the other big parallel is, of course, that there are people who are assigned female at birth, but dress in armor and fight in battles. Another important thing to note here

is that quite a few contemporary scholars have argued that had Joan lived today, she might have identified as trans or non-binary. Obviously, that vocabulary didn't exist back then, but it seems like Joan was very set on her masculine gender expression, even while it caused her a great deal of danger. Because something I don't think a lot of people know is that she was actually killed because of this masculine gender expression. Because like the church and the English crown both wanted her dead for a lot of various reasons but the thing they actually like legally got her for was cross-dressing. So she was condemned by an inquisitorial court for this cross-dressing, which they deemed to be heretical. And I think that's an interesting parallel to Brienne, who, while not literally on trial for gender nonconformity,

is still kind of on trial constantly for gender nonconformity. And absolutely experiences negative social sanctions for it. Absolutely. And I really like the comparison that you've drawn between these two figures, one a character, one a real person. She's real to me. And that's what matters. But, you know, I mean, both of them, right, they're concerned about justice, right? But I like that how you've pointed out ultimately what they pick this one spectrum of power on which to convict joan which is very interesting i i also like what you pointed

out in terms of combining the warrior and the maid because we did discuss a little last last chapter all right so like where does someone like re-infit into the faith of the seven but this idea that there can be new reinterpretations, it's not just a stranger, and looking at both is interesting. And there are a lot of examples, right, of warrior maids. You brought up one and also other classes of women warriors throughout history, throughout different cultures. And even within this story, we see some in other areas of Westeros, we see it beyond the Wall, and the history of the Valyrian dragon riders show that this is very normal outside of the Andal tradition, which is why I think that

phrase comes easily to Maribold. And that is, in fact, a normal class or career track for someone to choose, that there is a valuable devotion to it, that faith, and also that Mirabal has been talking about faith in regards to silence, but also that path towards the sceptre. And it implies that maybe, again, this career track of being a warrior maid exists already, especially because it's so easily accepted as a rationale. And we do have one example from history jean-coul dark so i kind of wonder if there were once maybe like many many more warrior maids that were eventually just stamped out of andal tradition and also their stories just caught stop being passed along i mean especially so much is

done through oral history yeah i mean the other like oral history example that I think of is, of course, Brave Danny Flint, who wanted to be a warrior, even if they were assigned female at birth, and got severely punished for it. And I think that's sort of a cautionary tale to all gender non-conforming people in Westeros. So hopefully the story of Brienne, the warrior made of tarf, can instead be an inspirational story for generations to come. I think we and people in Westeros need that kind of story to help us realize ourselves.

Absolutely. You know, in your essay where you compare Joan of Arc and Brienne Lowe, you talk about how Joan of Arc was, you know, not only did she piss everyone off because she went into warrior's garb, but also because of class, right? Because she was a peasant. She's dressing as a peasant in warrior's garb. And I think there's something really to be said. Not necessarily. Obviously, we know Brienne is highborn and Jonquil Dark was treated not poorly, but she

was a bastard. So being a bastard, I mean mean she had a little bit of class right she had to kind of deal with some of the class there so i think there's definitely a through line with class as well just like with brienne uh having the king's favor and that really pissing randall off and that ties with later this chapter with that story of sir quincy not doing anything for all the people who are of lower class than him. Yeah. Yeah, if you have power

using it to help, that's such a big through theme in this. There's something really interesting going on here of Narbert being totally like, um, so you're saying Sandor Clegane, Sandog Clebab, him, that guy, you're talking about that one the hound hound

like the real one you're talking about he you want to kill him uh this is god please don't kill sandor he thinks like all of them are just sitting there like uh this chick is really close to killing sandor we cannot let that happen we do not need that bloodshed right now i know i it's actually really funny when when red in that light because you know he's just like i i can't be this sort of decision making is above my pay grade when it comes to sandra clegane and whether or not i just let he's already like a little uncomfortable with brianne like being assigned female at birth, and now he's like, fuck, she wants to kill one of the brothers. What do I do? What do I do? Elder brother, you deal with this. And I'm kind of like, is this- Narbert's, like, sweating bullets, right? When Robert goes, snow, Ned, snow! King's under the snow! And Ned'd be like, huh, really interesting. I think Narbert's maybe that vibe right now. It really is. It's like, and the first time you read this chapter, if you catch the gravedigger stuff, you know, the wink and the nod, you're like, ah, ah, there it is.

But I didn't. I didn't catch, I didn't understand it at all. In fact, I was like dating some guy and he was like, Sandor's alive. And I'm like, what? Oh my God. And I had to like read it. But now going back and rereading it now, it's all, all of it's about Sandor being alive.

They're all like looking at each other with shifty eyes and they're like, oh, hey, you in the back, go stand in front of that big black horse, you know, and just block the view of that huge horse in the stables. Cause if we go through there and she sees that horse, it's fucking over. It's very humorous actually. It is really funny i think george has to be really fucking proud of himself too you know he's

sitting there like these suckers he's like writing in word star he's like these stupid bitches they'll never see it they'll never understand it well Well, Brother Gillum is also here to care for the animals. The stable is full of mules and that big black horse, that big stallion, though handsome, Driftwood the horse, is difficult to handle, and he refuses to plow or to be gelded. Stranger, it's my boy. From Aria10 in A Storm of Sw swords uh i wanted to bring up this line i'm just so excited oh this is such these are such great chapters for me

low yeah this is probably one of chloe's favorite chapters too yeah it is i mean it really is the last two chapters together have been special so having sam Sam on last week, Lo on this week, it's been a real treat because they're some of my favorite chapters. It has my favorite girl and my favorite boy. There's this line in Arya 10 in A Storm of Swords that I thought was really interesting considering like concealed identities here. And they had just ridden by a knight, right? I don't remember which knight it is, but it's when they're in the Riverlands after the Red Wedding. And they fooled him. They had his head down. And Arya asks, how come he didn't know you then?

And he says, because knights are fools. It would have been beneath him to look twice at some poxy peasant. Keep your eyes down and your tone respectful and say, Sir Ola, and most knights will never see you. They pay more mind to horses than to small folk he might have known stranger if he'd ever seen me ride him identities i mean it's right there you know that guy had never seen sandor ride stranger however stranger is one of the most like easily spotted horses on a war field like you'd see that horse and you'd be like that's a

fucking good looking distrier that's an angry good looking distrier yeah and i mean also stranger like he's human is not a big fan of being told what to do yeah and i mean good for him good for you stranger for not wanting to plow uh fields or be gilded. Good for you. Right. That is him. Can't break him. Mm-hmm. Now that you've called that out, I'm like, oh, uh,

I don't know if Brienne's ever seen Sandor, nor if Brienne's ever even seen Sandor ride Stranger. So this horse is also a stranger to them. And... I mean, that is true, though. They have not met, unlike in the HBO hit experience Game of Thrones. Yeah, and I mean, like, so

how would Brienne recognize... I mean, we see... I think it's next chapter, right, where Brienne's like, this kid looks a lot like Renly, and pieces it all together. So, how's Brienne supposed to do it here, right? Again, the horse is also a stranger, but is also being told that he's named Driftwood. So anyway, Heil, though, is like, do you need help gelding the horse?

I'll do it. I'll just snip it right off. And Narbert's like, no, no, it's okay. You're a knight. That's not your job. I wish he would have. I would love to see him try. Right, just like Endarbert said, he's like,

it is also not my job to figure out what to do about Sandor and Brienne. They head all the way up these cool sloped stairs towards the Elder Brother. Brienne is very positive and in fact welcomes this walk because they've been riding all day. They all pass a dozen brothers who are milking cows, churning butter driving sheep, a lot of things going on a lot of activity, there's this huge injured

brother in the lick yard who's spattering people as he digs, doing a terrible job good for him yeah right, and Narbert chastises him and this big brother pets a dog, or pets pets dog pets our friend dog and this brother's a novice and i'm also just wondering so narbert is is he sweating like

bullets right now as they walk past this guy they're gonna know they're gonna figure it out she's gonna see the grave was for brother clement who was 48 years old he died of wounds from outlaws and brian asks was it the hound who killed clement and norbert says no it was someone else who was just as brutal saying that clement's tongue was cut out because you know he took a vow of silence anyway but the elder brother knows more of the story withholding some info for tranquility as many you know came here to escape the world and we have a line of brother clement was not the only wounded man amongst us some wounds do not show like sandor's man pain actually i'm just kidding he has scars all over his face from it uh i really love that they like

refuse to solely his bad name you know what i mean like oh they refuse to make it any worse for him like everyone is saying the hound did it they're like no it was someone bad though it was someone else very bad it was not the hound like defending him even though you know as just the chapter before is what we've talked about and i probably will mention again jamie just a couple chapters ago is what saying well we got to go kill that fucker because he's crazy uh so they have the the good and respect they're like no let's not make it worse for the poor fuck let's just i'm just gonna su, literally. Just make him dig dirt. They get to the arbor,

and they make their own wine, actually, here. Wine, mead, ale. The war hasn't actually come here or touched here, so, you know, now it's going to, because he wrote that line. I'm sure something's going to happen here now. Thanks, George. Yeah, they continue on this great guided tour. Brother Norbert's a great tour guide guide shout out to the vegetable garden then they stop at the hermit's hole which is a door in a hill

i mean this has to be a lord of the rings reference right i was kind of googling it just for fun i think so right because it's like a hobbit hole but also there is an isle of white w-i-g-h-t in england benedict cumberbatch apparently lives there whatever other a bunch of other celebrities too and it has a place called hermit's hole on it okay so i wonder if it is a reference but i found that crazy i was like isle of white hermit's hole i did a little googling it does feel it does feel hobbity i mean yeah also they they're eating well right that's like that's a hobbit thing too right yeah yeah and again it means that everything's gonna go to shit because you know the shire what the fuck i like quiet aisle i do too but it's too quiet bro you know what i mean like it's i i i worry about the quiet

aisle i think it's gonna get raised by something it's gonna get real loud let's get loud let's get loud uh two thousand years ago the first holy man went there and just into this hermit hole and worked wonders inspiring others to join and much much much later on they added a door to this hill and the cave is in fact actually now, it is not like cave-like it is very cute and cozy

and I think it would be wonderful on an Instagram account yeah, I mean, this whole place just feels like very Instagram yeah, I mean, this whole place just feels like very Instagram. Yeah, to me, in my head, the Quiet Isle is like part the Shire and part a Swedish island called Gotland, which is like, it both has these beautiful beaches, but they're also like gorgeous nature, slush fields, and parts of it is also

austere limestone coldness. I remember your presentation on this. Yes. I mean, if you look at my Instagram, there's a lot of pictures of Gotland on it. So, yeah.

It's sort of a mix of those things in my head. So Lois confirming yes yes assertion hermit hole instagram yes content god they meet the elder brother finally who is surprisingly young he stands straight and tall compared to the stooped backs of the other brothers and he's energetic he has a big head a tonsure haircut stubble shrewd eyes and a veined red nose he looks more like a man made to break bones than to heal one thought the maid of tarth as the elder brother strode across the room to embrace septim marabald and pat dog he

welcomes the entire crew the elder brother doesn't care about brienne's sex, but seems dismayed by her mission. So Narbert was definitely dismayed by her sex then. So, like, confirmed. But I think it's interesting that the one that's highest up in the hierarchy seems to be able to look past the things about Brienne that makes other people think that they're wrong or sinful. And I think there's an argument to be made, like we sort of mentioned before, that if you actually follow the Faith of the Seven, Brienne is like super holy for embodying several gods, both the masculine and the feminine ones.

And I mentioned transmedieval monks before, and I wanted to talk a bit more about that, and specifically about this one medieval person called Josef of Chenau. So Josef of Chenau was born in Cologne and assigned female at birth, and he had a very eventful life that's been retold in several 12th century chronicles. And these chronicles describe that as a child, Josef accompanied his father on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem but his father died on the way. Then he had to get back to Europe

and encountered a variety of challenges because you know it's got to be a good story and once back in Cologne he served in the household of the archbishop and this bishop had a dispute with the emperor over an apistocopal election and he sent joseph with a letter to the pope in verona in order to get assistance and on his way there joseph mistakenly got accused of theft and was about to be hung

and he manages to convince the priest of his innocence by showing this secret message from the Pope. And then he convinces the rest of the people of the town that he's innocent by undergoing an ordeal of hot iron. The real thief is eventually caught and hung. And unfortunately, the relatives of this thief is pissed at Josef for this whole thing. So they catch him and try to hang him again. at Joseph for this whole thing. So they catch him and try to hang him again. So I'm seeing some parallels to

Brienne here with secret missions and hanging, etc. But anyway, in the retelling of this story, it's said that Joseph survived by an angel arriving and supporting his feet until he could be rescued by some local shepherds. And afterwards

he entered a Cistercian monastery as thanks for this divine aid, and he eventually died at the monastery, living as a monk. And what's interesting is that at least one of these chronicles consistently describe Joseph as male during this part of his life, using male pronouns, etc. And the retelling of the story also presents Joseph's identity as a man as neither a choice on his path part or as a disguise, but rather as a sort of divine gift, another part of the divine intervention in Joseph's life. And another interesting part of this is that for the monks that knew Joseph as a man,

it seemed like he had transformed into a woman in death when they looked at his body. So this was perceived as a sort of miracle. And one interpretation is that through his holy actions, Joseph's soul was so perfected that he became so intertwined with the divine that he managed to transcend gender. So this was made literal in how he had a body that was morphologically interpreted as female, even though he was a man. So I think this carries really fascinating implications for the gender of the divine and the possibility to transcend gender. This is something that comes back several times in this book. I mentioned earlier transgender queer subjects in medieval hagiography, and I think it's

very interesting. In a lot of these medieval chronicles, holy people and holy bodies are presented as transcending binarized gender, and some scholars even argue that this is the case with how Christ has been presented in art and literature. Sort of similar to how he's both human and divine at the same time, he's also presented as both having female and male aspects to him. And this is something that holy people were expected to sort of strive for. So I think this is interesting if you relate it to the faith, which is, I think, quite obviously inspired by Christianity and Catholicism.

And they have these seven-faced gods, but that seven-faced god is still one god. So you have the masculine and the feminine and the gender-fluid stranger, but there is still one god, just as Brienne is a warrior maid. It looks like Martha Newman actually also wrote a chapter about it, or wrote an essay on it, and it's called Assigned Female at Death. Yes, that's the one I was referencing. Yep, that one. Yep, that's what I thought. I was just reading some of it, and it's very interesting.

Very interesting. Also just really some of it and it's very interesting. Very interesting. Also just really like poetically horrible and sad. Like that even at death, Joseph didn't get to, you know, express themselves or be them. You don't get control when you die over what everybody's going to say and do and whatever. But how like corroborated through history

it is through how many accounts. Very interesting. Yeah. Really interesting. Yeah. Really interesting. Yeah, I don't really have much to add other than, I mean, this is really interesting. And I, again, you know, speaks to, there are other ways that, like, gender was conceptualized, right? And, you know, this Christianity has, like, some aspects of Christianity have one take on it and there's many different other kinds and other beliefs and this idea of this holiness is really interesting you know in some indigenous

american cultures there are the concepts of the two spirit right but um not all of them anyway speaking much more superficially again about Instagram and how things appear, all right, look at these handcrafted artisanal cups that are made of the locally sourced driftwood that wash up on the quiet aisle. I just thought that was a great detail. All right, things seem super cute here on the quiet aisle, just in general. All right, treasures wash up here, and driftwood the horse, you know, I feel like that's implied as one of the treasures that have washed up here on the Quiet Isle, right? And that they could have been what some people consider, I mean, no, people don't really give a shit about Driftwood a lot of the time, and by that I mean

literally Driftwood, but that they've made them into these beautiful cups that people use that have purpose. It's kind of like how the Broken Men can come to the quiet isle and reshape themselves. And, you know, this idea of faith, but also hope for oneself can be these intertwined concepts. Reforging yourself. Exactly, exactly. Instead of reforging, you know, a sword

and stabbing it through someone else, you know, different, different. Things wash up here. Things that are also maybe more traditionally considered real treasures such as silver cups and iron pots sacks of wool and bolts of silk rusted helms and shining swords aye and rubies they're like oh maybe even raygar's rubies because six rubies have They're like, oh, maybe even Rhaegar's rubies, because six rubies have been found, but they are waiting for that seventh one. I love this. The idea of the rubies coming to men who would never want them or need them or use them. Hell, obviously, the elder brother probably does not want them at that island because they're just a memory of one of the wars, the war that broke him.

We see it as a child's game with Arya and Micah, right? Finding rubies at the Ford, the Lannisters wishing to covet those rubies in many ways. And even the image of his rubies kind of washing away, that's broken man vibes right there. Him, a man falling to his knees, murmuring the name of a woman he loves. In Eddard I, we get this vision of that.

When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor. Right? Men dragged into a needless war, fighting for needless gems,

hoping maybe they could pay to feed their family for a little longer. This, of course, works really well, lends well into what Meribald's saying, that the rubies were better than bones, right? He says rubies are better than bones washing up, which that, we have plenty. The river washes up plenty of corpses here. Big sad. Yeah, I think George might be saying that war is bad.

Jury's still out. Do you think? You be saying that war is bad? Interesting. The jury's still out. Do you think? You don't think, do you? Can you show us some of the textual evidence? Fuck. So, besides, yes, George is saying war may be bad? And then the rubies and the scrabbling around it i also kind of wonder if the rubies are standing for not gems but eggs agons that is uh so as you all know once upon a

time long long ago in another story in another world this book was once the same book as A Dance of Dragons. They were all one. And then, you know, Zeus thought it was too powerful, split them apart. And so far, you know, the river has turned up six rubies, or I would say maybe six agons. And the last of whom was once considered a corpse, maybe? Considered dead? The baby? And throughout the dynasty. But if the show was not lying, and in fact Jon's name is also Aegon, I mean, waiting for that seventh to turn up.

Yeah, I actually read a great theory from a deleted Reddit comment that i'll link that the rubies are the targaryens at time of rhaegar's death aries rayala viscerys danny rainies agon and the missing one is john but i like that too i i agree 100 that john is the missing ruby i mean that's 100 what i think he's winking at i think it could be both of these like i think i feel like it might be something that george just wrote because he's like you know it seems fancy seven rubies but it can be both of what we think i mean these would be reygar seven rubies right yeah well coming back to the bones and the corpses, which are not as good as rubies, washing up on shore, and considering that idea later on, right, that the hound is dead, right, and this idea that rivers and waters are metaphors for rebirth in many religions, especially in Christianity and at baptism, which I think is a

big influence on George's life growing up and comes up quite a few times in this series. And also, you know, a reminder of Arya in this chapter. The river did wash up another corpse that did still

live, does still live currently, kind of live in the Riverlands. And that corpse has not found peace on the quiet isle even though that corpse is also or not corpse, but whatever very silent, voice taken and is making even more corpses and I think it's interesting that that corpse

was like partially baptized in water but also baptized in fire. Which is making it not as restful and fit for the Quiet Isle. That's a great point. That's why... Yeah. Too loud for the Isle. Consumes.

Yeah. Lady Stoneheart is far too loud for this Isle. Let's get loud. Oh my god. That's the song of his life. The gravedigger is busy making graves for many of these corpses right now. In death, all men across the kingdoms are

buried together, the elder brother says. He asks Maribald to absolve folks of sins, as the death of Septon Bennett had left them with no one to hear confession. Maribald is absolve folks of sins as the death of Septon Bennett had let them with no one to hear confession. Maribald is happy to because he wants some more interesting sins. So does Dog.

The brothers may break silence only when they're confessing. Hmm. Interesting. I do think that Maribald and Dog would find some new interesting sins from a certain new novice. I think that they would think maybe that would be interesting to hear about i love that elder brother is like please you take

him i don't want him anymore i can't stand it the next time i hear about these two girls with their fucking wolves i swear to god uh i like that uh something marabold is like i don't know i and i kind of wonder you know if you come often enough for people's confessions like obviously if you see the same people over and over again like and they've been there a while and they're just staying on this aisle obviously their sins are going to be boring so thankfully for him as you said lo sandor is here and i think dog dog especially will find these to be some interesting sins. You know, maybe they'll have a kinship.

So we come to the subject of salt pans. The sept was burned, and so was everything else except for the castle, which was built of stone. I thought this was pretty sad because we don't see a lot of septs burnt in the series. The septs we do see burnt, it's seen as wildly sacrilegious. We have the Riverlands in Clash. Arya sees that the septs are burnt and she thinks that the Lannisters had burnt septs and everything

in their stead. And we also hear Stannis vow to burn the Great Sept in King's Landing and he actually burns the Seven. But this is looked at as a pretty sacrilegious act the elder brother had treated survivors brought by fisher folk and one was a survivor of multiple rapes her breasts were torn and chewed the elder brother doesn't withhold details as brienne's a

warrior yeah and i think that's interesting that he makes this call and i wonder if it's because he figures that brienne has seen some bad shit because, I mean, they're already a warrior or because their gender nonconformity sort of brings them outside of the subject position of woman and therefore their little brother doesn't really feel like he has to protect their virtue, etc. in the same way. Not sure, but either way, interesting way interesting yeah because like he said earlier

right like that he was gently telling some of the things because the people on this aisle hadn't signed up for more pain and bloodshed but for her here in this quiet confidence interesting he feels kind of that he can tell her that and part of me like, how much of it is him hoping to dispel her off of Sandor's path or off of the path of finding the Hound? Not that that would work. Brienne's heard worse, she's seen close to worse, and she's going to see worse. And this is really great foreshadowing, right? Because this woman was attacked by Biter. I mean, that's what happened here. The woman was attacked by Biter, and she's going to meet that very same raider who did this and barely survive. I know we've talked plenty about Joe Magician's five-year gap theory about Brienne and Pretty Maris' connection,

and that Pretty Maris might have been George's vision for what would have happened after a five-year gap for her. But withstanding that, this makes me think a lot of Pretty Maris as a candidate for, emotionally, part of Brienne's arc and as a broken woman. Maris is no man. Maris, sweet, undo your shirt, show him. That will not be necessary, said Quentin. If the talk he had heard was true, beneath that shirt, Pretty Maris had only the scars left by the men who'd cut her breasts off. Maris is a woman, I agree. She was reportedly assaulted by half the members of a sellsword company. We hear that in the windblown.

And so like, there's thinking of Maris and some of the things, while Maris may not be the kindest woman in the story that we meet, right? She's not the very poignant subject of songs, but what she went through to stay in that company and to be you know part of a sellsword company and actually make it she faced very horrendous sexual violence and violence in in general just for being a woman and i mean not to state obvious but obviously sex is not gender so her having breasts does not say anything about her gender but this passage that you quoted really reminded me of something that jamie says to

in his first ethos chapter where he says do you deny your sex if so unlace those breeches and show me he gave her an innocent smile i'd ask you to open your bodies, but from the look of you, it wouldn't prove much. So, like, with both Pretty Marys and Rianne, we have these, like, prove your womanhood by your body situations. And...

But, sort of like you say, Chloe, there is something there to be said about the danger of being recognized as a certain gender and when you're recognized as it or not. And it really reminds me of something else that Sara Ahmed says in another book called Living a Feminist Life, where she writes that no one is born a woman. It is an assignment, not just a sign, but also a task, an imperative,

that can shape us, make us, and break us. Many women who are assigned female at birth, let us remind ourselves, are deemed not woman in the right way, or not woman at all. Perhaps because of how they do or do not express themselves. They are too good at sports, not feminine enough because of their bodily shape, comportment or conduct, not heterosexual, not mothers, and so on. Part of the difficulty of the category of woman is what follows residing in that category, as well as what follows not residing in that category, because of the body you acquire, desires you have, the paths you follow or do not follow? There can be violence at stake in being recognizable as a woman.

There can be violence at stake in not being recognizable as a woman. And I think this is very true for people like Pretty Marys, but also Brienne, who've been given this assignment of womanhood. But because of the paths they've taken, they're not quite recognizable as women. And there's a lot of violence at stake in that. It's a really interesting quote applied to Brienne's life, right? And the question you're asking of Brienne is in this liminal space and right now being allowed to, quote unquote, allowed to hear certain information, right? But at the same time, you know, where does that put

them in terms of like how other people interpret Brienne, right? And the way that the Elder Brother is interpreting or reading Brienne's story and body, almost as though the Elder Brother, I almost wonder if the Elder Brother believes that all the men across from the Seven Kingdoms can all just be buried together and they're all the same. I almost wonder if the elder brother believes that all the men across from the seven kingdoms can all just be buried together and they're all the same. I almost wonder if the elder brother, you know, having not batted an eye, as you said, when Brienne shows up and doesn't really care, has come to the understanding that, well, if everyone's the same in death, why not in life as well, right? What doesn't matter? What Brienne's body is and recognizing that Brienne can handle this sort of information. And as you said, right, Brienne is shown this violence constantly. And I wonder if, I mean, the elder brother would even say this sort of thing, depending, right, to

someone who is a woman, right, but also a survivor of sexual assault in the same way that this victim was and being like i mean you've experienced it or would maybe out of sensitivity would not i don't know depends he seems like a the elder brother seems like a sensitive person who would know how to gauge that sort of situation anyway but also in regards to what clue was saying of like is the elder brother bringing this up to dispel brianne from killing sand. You know, I'm, again, I'm just still not sure how Brienne, like, bridged that gap between last chapter and this one.

Find Sandor, find the girl, to suddenly, we're gonna kill Sandor. How did he make that jump? I think it is also, like, a through line in the books right now of, like, the last chapter has Jaime being like, you need to kill the hound. And every chapter has pretty much been like, you need to kill the hound and every chapter has pretty much been like you need to kill the hound to pretty much everyone in Westeros in

this area so I think it's part of the whole through line of that plot happening and I do think that killing the hound for her especially because she keeps hearing of him, somebody who's being the hound, raising everything to the ground and burning saps, burning people down. And I think that they really see it as, you know, something they could possibly fix, that they could do some good after they've been on this journey where they're trying, but it feels like they're not doing shit, right?

Like this doesn't feel like a very progressive journey for Brienne. Brienne has not gotten as much done as they would have liked to get done. I think there's really something in it that the elder brother, like, so last chapter, Septon Marabold has his great speech, right? We love Septon Marabold. We love the broken man speech. It's very sad, whatever, yada, yada, yada. Okay, that's last week. This week, elder Brother's much more understated in how he speaks. It very much gives off the idea that he's seen it all, and nothing surprises him anymore, right?

When he found Sandor Clegane, that didn't seem to faze him, you know, dying. That was nothing. So I think he's definitely seen it all, and I think Brienne might not be the first that he's seen of a person that is displaced in their body trying to do something that is not necessarily what society lets their gender do. And I do think the elder brother like seems to be much calmer, much more understated, much more finessed in the way that he says things. You have, like you said, Narbert a little he's a little something right like he's a little much he's out here like yeah yeah absolutely uh and even mirabal like he's a little intense i would say you know just a little bit intense uh an elder brother kind of finesses between those channels he's not quite as intense in some aspects some aspects he is just as intense but He's not quite as intense in some aspects. Some aspects he is just as intense, but he's not quite as intense, I don't think.

And I think he seems to like speak with his soul. Yeah. I don't know. Food for thought. There was something that you said, Chloe, of like killing the hound, right? And it made me think of the phrase of kill the boy and let the man be born, right?

So here we are seeing right now, we are killing the hound to let, I don't know, Sandor be born or whoever this person's going to become. And I'm also thinking of it in the context of, you know, perhaps less violently so, right? Because they're hoping that Brienne will choose a path of much more peace, but perhaps Brienne's story is a little bit like... it just sounds terrible when I say it like this, though, but kill the girl and let Brienne be born, right? Whatever Brienne chooses, because, you know, just same as how in this passage has articulated from Dr. Ahmed of that womanhood is an assignment, right? Being a woman is an assignment there's also that idea for many that being a man is also right you have to pass certain rights be certain things whatever all all this shit to like be considered be a man or whatever but i mean what does that path look like right if you are killing the girl you don't have the assignment of like

womanhood you don't know what the assignment you can't you're barred from the assignment of manhood so what brianne's gonna make their own curriculum yeah yeah well and then you have characters like sam obviously that that really ties into so well with and for for brianne i really i like that the kill the girl that is what she's had to do especially during this past time those notions right like even later when she thinks about Renly and thinks about what the beginning of her journey was versus where she is right now and how much she's grown in this book alone let alone the last couple books and killing the boy for Sandor like that's part of it I think too that Elder Brother is trying to say that like some what happens when you kill the boy

too soon right like the boy was killed within sandor far too soon as a kid his brother put his face into that fire and killed the boy right then and there before sandor was even done being a boy before he was even able to think about being a man you know or want to be a man he was playing with toys he wasn't even a killer yet. And I just think that's so sad of when that's ripped away. Right? Like, Brienne never really even had an option to have it. So for her, she's she's molding it on that path. And she's working now to kill the girl and having that kind of freedom to express somewhat herself out here. And Sandor then, you know,

you can't really control when someone else kills the boy before you get a chance to, I guess. Yeah. Well, let's bring it back to the woman that, of course, we're talking about that launched this whole conversation. Wow. The woman that died from salt pans. As she had died, she cursed not the rapists, but Sir Quincy Cox, who closed the gates and stayed safe behind his stone walls.

Marabal points out Sir Cox is old, with all his men far away, his grandsons still children. What could he have done, one man against so many? He could have tried, thought Brienne. many. He could have tried, thought Brienne. He could have died. Old or young, a true knight is sworn to protect those who are weaker than himself or die in the attempt. True words

and wise, the elder brother said to Septa Marabald. When you cross to Saltpans, no doubt Sir Quincy will ask you for forgiveness. I am glad that you are here to give it. I could not. I couldn't either. Fuck yeah, Elder Brother.

Good for you. Yeah. And also, Brienne basically saying, no chance and no choice. Yes. Yeah. I just love that, you know, we start seeing the groundwork for that chapter here, right? And Brienne's values. It's also just a funny construction of this moment because technically the elder brother is replying to Maribald when saying true words and wise, but because Brienne's

interior thoughts interject in this passage, you could also read it as the elder brother affirming the he could have tried as the true and wise words, especially as the elder brother does seem to agree that Ser Quincy's acts were coward, especially as the elder brother does seem to agree that Sir Quincy's acts were cowardly and that the elder brother could not bestow that sort of forgiveness. And as for what one man could do against many, there's an implication of a lot. I would like to quote the emperor in the 1998 animated film Mulan, which is also about a warrior maid and in other interpretations and how people talk about the legend, you know, there's a lot to be discussed in terms of gender there. But in the 1998 animated film from Disney, the emperor says a single grain of rice can tip the scale. One man may be the difference between victory and defeat.

And then it cuts to Mulan because that's that's the story of the that movie but i would like to give a follow-up to the monologue last week with a book recommendation of if you'd like to read an account of what women endure in violent conflict please check out the last Girl by activist Nadia Murad. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2018 for her work trying to secure justice for the Yazidi people after the Yazidi genocide, of which Nadia is a survivor, and she, like many of the Yazidi women, were forced by ISIS into sexual slavery. And she does recount a lot of that experience, so content-slash-trigger warning for The Last Girl, but there is a moment where she condemns the mother of one of the ISIS members slash fighters for being complicit in

Nadia's rape and doing nothing to stop it and even almost enabling it and the violence against so many of the other women, but there's also other moments of real people who risk their own lives and that of their families to help Nadia escape and to help lots of other women escape and who do anything right when faced with the decision of right or wrong on their doorstep and they don't turn her away even though it means that they could die they actually do end up facing consequences um later on unfortunately and this is these are also not characters these are also real people in real life so I just wanted to plug that when i because when i read brienne saying like he could have tried right i think about that family yeah it's horrible yeah i mean again it's being a true knight and a true protector of the people

in general anyone can do it that's why it doesn't matter if Brienne hasn't been knighted or Dunk hasn't been knighted because they're the only real knights in the whole fucking world. Jesus. Like, all you have to do is open a door for people and offer help. That's all you gotta do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I'm actually-

Yeah, I was thinking Edmure. I'm reminded of Sansa, right? Standing up when Cersei's just fucked off. And she's like, I'm just gonna go get drunk and pass out and hope I don't die with my kids. And Sansa's like, okay, well, I'll be brave and I'll just lead song with the people, you know, with the folk. That's, I mean, that's bravery. And also her saving Dantos in the clash. Yeah.

Yes, yes. Great point. Yeah. She, yes. Great point. Yeah. She does put herself at risk for that. Yeah. Well, the conversation is over. It's dinner time. They start and they pray for the folks of Saltpans and then they eat.

The food was plain, but very good. There were loaves of crusty bread still warm from the ovens, crocks of fresh churned butter still warm from the ovens crocks of fresh churned butter honey from the sceptre's hives and a thick stew of crabs mussels and at least three different kinds of fish septid marabald and sir hyle drank the mead the brothers made and pronounced it excellent whilst she and podrick contented themselves with more sweet cider also instagram content i just have to say, is this plain? How is this plain?

That's a great question. How is it? I don't know what they mean by plain. I guess it's not heavily spiced is what it sounds like, right? Yeah. Maybe I'm used to white and Scandinavian. Maybe that's it.

Maybe when you're just so busy dining at the Kingslayer's table you know, Brienne you class traitor I'm just kidding Brienne bought the lamb right or something a few minutes ago so this is perhaps simple but I don't know it sounds so good

fresh shirt butter that's the thing this is simple living and all of it's What about, I don't know, it sounds so good. May as well spend that money. Fresh turned butter. Fuck, dude. That's the thing, it's like, this is simple living, and, like, all of it's supposed to be so simple that it's, like, to me, it just sounds wonderful. We love simplicity. Yeah, I just want the cider, honestly. Like, cider is my shit. I was drinking it just yesterday. I love cider.

Yeah. Some hot cider, too. Oh, I wasn't sure what kind of cider. I have been wondering this, if this is the more fizzy. Yeah, I was thinking that kind of cider. But, unsure.

Like apple cider or pear cider or something. I was thinking it's like, I guess it is still made from apples and pears, right? The alcoholic ones or whatever. Mm-hmm. Fermented. I mean, they make their own mead, their own beer, their own ale. They got a great fucking gastropub going on here, you know?

Yeah. Well, the other thing is, like, it's more than likely got at least some sort of alcohol content, right? Since water's not always clean to drink. Yeah. So I'd imagine it's probably alcoholic. I wonder if one of these crabs is the one, one of the ones that dog fought. I hope so.

That's like my favorite little clip, just a dog fighting the crab. They eat at the tables. Someone plays harp. Hello, another Rhaegar reference today. They do readings from the seven-pointed star. Novices clear the tables. Someone plays harp. Hello, another Rhaegar reference today. They do readings from the seven-pointed star. Novices clear the food. Most of them are around Pod's age or younger,

but some of them are grown, like the very huge grave digger. Then they're assigned lodgings. Pod wants to stay with Brienne, but since men and women can't share a bed in the quiet isle or a roof, unless they're wed, Brienne has to stay in a cottage which it's for women it's over on the east side of the aisle it's colder thornier but also much more picturesque yeah and there's just like so much here in this little short thing about like there's so much heteronormativity like you can't have men and women sleeping

together, that would be improper but there's also just so clear how the gender binary is everywhere like where are you allowed to sleep as a gender non-conforming person and as a gender non-conforming person you constantly have to navigate this binary

where you aren't allowed in some spaces but you feel very uncomfortable in other spaces. I've constantly talked about Sarah Ahmed in this episode but in the beginning I talked about this thing with lines and institutional lines. Another part of that argument that she brings up is how these institutional lines structure social space and make some spaces available to some people and not available to other people. And as a non-binary person this is

something I have to deal with constantly. Since I don't follow the proper straight line of gender there are so many spaces where I feel uncomfortable because I just can feel like that these spaces are not made for me. And it can be something like being at a party and just feeling how everyone has this expectation of you to perform a gender you're not comfortable with. And then there is, of course, the classic example that's similar to what Brianne faces here of needing to use a restroom in public or a changing room. And there are only two options for you and you have to pick one and pick the least bad one

the one where you're least likely to be harassed basically I think that's interesting what you said just there about needing to pick an alternative where you're least likely to be harassed because I didn't realize is part of the reason right of this enforced heteronormativity and and relegating women to cottages on the other side of the island

is it because they're concerned about the women being assaulted by uh yeah probably by recovering people ex-cons yeah yeah yeah that's pretty much what i thought i thought he was hinting at like uh that like oh you know they have to stay there because a you know we don't need the brothers getting any relapse ideas yeah i mean if you think about like the current bathroom debate going on in several countries that's such a big part of it where people like we need a specific women's bathrooms because because the risk of sexual violence and you're like yeah okay but transient and non-conforming people are harassed like regardless everywhere we go so like please think of an option for us too yeah and that's the thing

they're not like carving that option out they're just just, this is just the bandaid to fix that for the time being, instead of then saying, Hey, maybe we aren't going to do this. Yeah. And, and the risk of, I mean,

I think in something that you've written before, low that we have cited, I think at least multiple times here already of like the, because Brienne is gender nonconforming would, is that for Brienne's safety because other people, right, who may or may not be feeling that their masculinity is threatened right now too, especially if they're newer

just from the war, might try and take that out but everyone seems like pretty chill so far though, I don't know, at the moment at the Quiet Isle Narbert's gotta strike but yeah, Narbert's gotta strike strike, but... Yeah, Narbert's got a strike. But later on, on their way,

because the tour never ends, the Quiet Isle is a large territory, I guess, the Elder Brother points out that the fires of the salt pans are actually visible on clear nights across the bay. There aren't many right now, but this is, I think, a brief moment where I feel like George is drawing inspiration, just as an aside, from his own childhood at the Fire and Blood Volume 1 release event in New Jersey.

George disclosed that he actually used to look across from Bayonne, New Jersey, at the lights of Staten Island, imagining that it was some wonderful, magical place, which elicited a lot of snickers from the audience. imagining that it was some wonderful magical place which elicited a lot of snickers from the audience um so it's a very big i think gatsby's green light moment might explain uh george's affinity for that story as well but you know as we all know when it comes to staten island and the salt pans it is just lights sorry staten island god that's actually interesting i didn't think about that i was there just to you know you were you were there i was literally sitting two seats away from you you were in fact sitting right next to me and actually you were reading the book and i was like huh seems like a lot of work seems like i'm a nerd to try and read you have like several types of a swap fans at this event and you have chloe reading in the dark i have to finish the book before

everyone else you have Chloe reading in the dark and me being like little Staten Island and then you have us poor European fans just having FOMO on the other side of the Atlantic you all waiting just waiting where's mine

yeah it's okay I think it was what me and Jeff were the only ones that like made sure to spend time to read some of it that night and we're all sitting there in the room and me and jeff are like going over theories already and you guys are like what is happening i was the one pouring all the shots i was like everyone do you want another drink what do you need more yeah and i'm never accepting johnny walker from you again Yeah, I'm never accepting Johnny Walker from you again. Well, now at Salt Pans, there's nothing.

Everyone left to bury their loved ones, and now they're leaving and going to Maidenpool or other places they can find shelter. The raiders had wanted to find a ship. And Brienne knows that, right, from her chapter where she dealt with some of those raiders seeking a ship. Brienne, though, wants to find Sansa Stark. She had gotten a tip from Timion that made her believe Sansa was with the Hound. She tells them, specifically, because Eliana had not included this, it's very important this is in here.

It's okay. I forgive you. Forgiveness is really important. We're learning on the Quiet Isle. I put in dog things instead. Yeah, I always put in dog things, so I'll i'll remember that i mean this is a dog thing yeah that's true a girl she told him a highborn maid of three and ten with a fair face and auburn hair sansa stark the name was softly said you believe this poor child is with the hound? Obviously, if we roll it back a little, let's re-look at that language.

She did not tell him Sansa Stark. She did not say the name Sansa Stark to the elder brother. She did not say, I'm looking for Sansa Stark. He knew immediately, which how does the elder brother. Who's been holed up on his island. Know that Sansa Stark fits that description. Having never spoken. To Brienne about Sansa Stark. Before this moment.

How does the elder brother know. That she's looking for Sansa Stark. I just want to put it out there. Because. He knows. Because of the day weekly that Sandor Clegane gets to confess his sins

to the proctors right and he's sad because he has heard what has happened to the Stark girls and where they've gone because Sandor has confessed those sins to him because Sansa Stark was one of those sins that Sandor would confess to him Sandor confessed those sins at his because Sansa Stark was one of those sins that Sandor would confess to him. Sandor confessed those sins

at his first death with Arya. Man, this fucker won't die with Arya, but I find the way George sneaks this in is so clever because how would this man know shit about the Stark girls? The latter definitely for Arya. I will

say every time Brienne brings it up, everyone's like, so you're looking for Sansa Stark? Yeah. Not very slick on Brienne's part, but yes, absolutely. I do think that the Hound, I mean, as you said, right? He brings it up every other moment. It's definitely there, gnawing at him.

Sorry, not the Hound. Sandra Clegane in this moment, probably. Thank you. Well, hound um sandra clegane in this moment probably thank you well the cottages look like beehives brianne must duck to enter hers and finds it full of amenities five-star hotel and the elder brother asks could he stay and talk with her a little he reveals that brienne's detective skills they are improving great job leveling up but they are not enough because that girl that you heard about was in fact aria stark good news aria stark alive at that point bad news who knows about now no one all right because oh no one. Anyways, that was an unintentional joke on my part. Arya was definitely at the end of the crossroads, on the

way to the salt pans, but again, who knows where she is now? But what the elder brother does know is that the Hound is dead. Gasp. Gasp That was another shock How did he die? By the sword, as he had lived You know this for a certainty? I buried him myself I can tell you where his grave lies, if you wish

I covered him with stone to keep the carrion eaters from digging up his flesh And set his helm atop the cairn to mark his final resting place That was a grievous error. Some other wayfarer found my mark and claimed it for himself. The man who raped and killed at Salt Pans was not Sandor Clegane, though he may be as dangerous. The Riverlands are full of such scavengers. I will not call them wolves. Wolves are nobler than that. And so are dogs, I think. I know a little of this man, Sandor Clegane. He was Prince Joffrey's sworn shield for many a year, and even here we would hear of his deeds, both good and ill. If even half of what we heard was

true, this was a bitter, tormented soul. A sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no joy in victory. He drank to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he committed many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dream of love or wealth or glory. This man, Sandor Clegane, dreamed of slaying his own brother.

A sin so terrible it makes me shudder to think of it. But yet that was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for. And even that was taken from him when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Sir Gregor with a poisoned spear. You sound as if you pitied him. I did. You would have pitied him as well if you had seen him at the end. I came upon him by the trident, drawn by his cries of pain. He begged me for the gift of mercy, but I am sworn not to kill again. Instead, I bathed his fevered brow with river

water and gave him wine to drink and a poultice for his wounds, but my efforts were too little and too late. The hound died there, in my arms. You may have seen a big black stallion in our stables. That was his warhorse, Stranger. A blasphemous name. We prefer to call him Driftwood, as he was found beside the river. I fear he has his former master's nature. The horse. She had seen the stallion, had heard it kicking, but she had not understood.

Desturiers were trained to kick and bite. In war they were a weapon, like the men who rode them. Like the Hound. It is true then, she said oddly. Sandor Clegane is dead. He is at rest. So sad. so sad love him so much he's happy what a nice history he suddenly has right like he really knows a lot about sandor clegane oh i've heard of his deeds interesting so Sandor Clegane was born at 1901 AM blah blah Okay. What?

Interesting history. Did you look up his Wikipedia, elder brother? Seems suspect. Well, at least the Quiet Isle is a place where some people can find respite, rest, rebirth. And I mean like we mentioned before, this is very

fitting for a religious place Brienne can't get it at the Quiet Isle they're not at that point yet they can't fit in this place either but other people can and I think that's part of it like she can't rest here

her journey's not done there's more that she needs to do and can do and she's going to do and i think that she can be given the tools to doing so like he's showing her right now again this is just like last week's episode this is part of the path you could go down you know last week he showed what happened to men who break this week we get what happens to after that right the after for the men that break but don't die and there's something interesting because she's seeing here as you've mentioned so well with the fact that she's being isolated on the other side of the island there's no place carved out just for

her here uh for for maids that are recovering from giving birth and other women that there's space but there's nothing here for her there's no safety for people like brienne in westeros which is why she has to go out she has to leave and she has to carve that safety out for others herself and continue to fight for them there's also something in this passage that made me think of ned's cairns uh at the tower of joy from taking down the tower of joy and rebuilding the cairns and uh using them to bury those that had died it it kind of is crazy that he did all that him and howland you know in his grief was able to just like dismantle an entire tower within like a couple days and create cairns for a bunch of the dead uh but moving past that that seems a little crazy the cairns being uh there's always the idea that some

of them might have been empty you know maybe he didn't actually fill all these cairns uh like arthur dane's cairn you know he was taken back to the family but was that cairn. You know, he was taken back to the family, but was that Cairn really there, empty or what? We just don't know. And it makes me think of this, of Sandor's Cairn, his grave here being empty. Indeed, indeed. And I do like, you know, you're saying, like, imagining the elder brother

hearing all this from Sandor, just imagining Sandor being angry and like, and I didn't even get to kill my brother too! Prince Oberyn did that, right? Being so indignant. It was probably actually a very sad moment and pitiable, as the Elder Brother says. But in terms of the Cairns, right? And if Sandor is not in one of them, I do kind of love that they go through this whole process, right?

That the Elder Brother says, yeah, we dug a grave. We buried Sandor there, laid all his stuff there. And I imagine Sandor was part of that process. I don't know if he like helped dig that grave or not because I don't know if he was recovered enough to in terms of, I mean, he probably had an infection and like had a really bad time. And I kind of wonder if they do this

for every single man that, you know, quote unquote washes up on the Quiet Isle, because I think it seems like a very therapeutic thing to do. And it seems like if you are part of the digging, it can be a meditative action. And then to have to, you know, bury that old life and try to have a fresh start. Maybe they do a eulogy, too, at, like, the whole thing, right? And you're laying your stuff there, your old life that symbolized, or the things that symbolized it. And I, you know, like that what the Elder Brother does here. It is kind of a eulogy for the Hound.

And, you know, in putting your past to rest, you are giving yourself a chance to fashion something else out of that driftwood that you have. And we have spoken a little bit about forgiveness when it comes to Jaime's chapters, Hyles and Brienne's storyline. again i think it becomes also a question of atonement in terms of whether or not people can learn to forgive themselves and i think that's true of sandor's story and i think it's starting to seem like it's true of brienne's story too yeah yeah absolutely sandor digging is i mean it's physical therapy in a way right for sand For Sandor. This is physical therapy. I mean, because he is wounded pretty badly. And he does have to keep his body working in order for it to, like, you know, not die on him. So I see it also as a physical therapy. Yeah. So the conversation now turns to Brienne.

The elder brother points out their youth compared to his 44 years and says he was once a knight. This doesn't to Brienne. The elder brother points out their youth compared to his 44 years and says he was once a knight. This doesn't surprise Brienne. They say he looks like one. He was forced to be a knight, like his dad and granddad and all his brothers, he says, and that he battled, he raped. He wanted to marry a girl once, but she was too high-stationed. He was only drunk or fighting, but the trident changed that. He gives a much more personal version of the broken man speech, right? Fighting under Rhaegar's banners,

one of the men erased from songs that focuses on them. He fought even when his horse died under him, looking for another, and then got hit in the head, almost drowning. So I think that this moment where, you know, there's quite a few lines devoted to him

trying to find the horse and not just because he is a fan of girls gone canon and horses um i think that it's strong inspiration from shakespeare's richard the third a play that george has explicitly spoken about many times and it's said that this play richard the third and and the way that richard's character is has really influenced, especially Tyrion. And, you know, it's a figure from history who has their agency stolen when it comes to like their own story, and gets branded a villain for having maybe a quote, wrong, end quote, body, or so the legends go in terms of Richard's alleged hunchback, etc. And he's a figure that really intrigues George, very obviously. And maybe this is someone that George kind of sees as a sort of broken man. In Richard III, Richard dies in battle when he is unhorsed, and his famous

last words in the play are, a horse, a horse, horse my kingdom for a horse and it's famous for its irony and that after everything that Richard has done right to to secure this spot he would lose his kingdom for something so small so trivial but also like in terms of you know that his horse died but also there's another meaning in that line right that in his search for just a horse in order to save the kingdom, right? That he would trade his kingdom, which is so big, so vast, so meaningful for something so simple.

And I think that is kind of echoed here with the way that the elder brother tells his tale of desperation to find another horse. And also that he was driven to this point of brokenness where the battle and the kingdom do not matter anymore. All that matters is a horse so that he can keep being a knight. And that becomes a metaphor in this chapter, right, where the horse and the knighthood become one in that life frame. Because as for Sandvor, right, how stranger slash driftwood, you know, there's something there about the importance

of names and identity, and that renaming and also a question of whether a man's nature can change can heal and then for the elder brother right his horse died in battle as did the man that he was same as the hound has died and i mean now he's the elder brother we don't know what his name was before and also i mean just george really likes shakespeare yeah i love that that makes sense to me i didn't think about rich 3 in this, but it... Your horse is everything as a knight. I mean, Brienne's talked about that in the last few chapters. Yeah, it's in Dunking Egg, too.

I think Dunk thinks about how he has to have a horse. Otherwise, he can't be a knight. I mean, I get that. It's like having a car for me like personally like i know that's crazy but it's literally it's an independence thing like when i was young when i was 16 i got my first car i saved up i paid for my first car i paid the insurance i did everything i had to to have it and to me growing up in a smaller city like a smaller kind of town city like 10 000 people it was like i wanted out right it's independence it's freedom having a horse means you can get the fuck out of every situation you don't have to be in this place that hates you with these people

that hate you where you're going nowhere right like you could just get the fuck out and that's what it felt like growing up so having the car car keys, knowing I have a working car, anytime my car breaks down to me, like that's devastating. I know it's not a horse, a horse is a living thing. But it's akin as far as transportation, as far as that's what you need to be a true knight. You know, that's, it's freedom. And I think that's very much Yeah, way that you you've positioned the car i think that is very true especially within american culture and the american narrative that is the place that cars hold in in um yeah american storytelling because i mean it's it's a very big country right like yeah people don't understand like the size of each state is like the size of, like, a country and many other places. And also, what you're saying, it also reminds me a little bit of

this line repeated in Metric's song, Handshakes, buy this car to get to work, go to work to pay for this car. And that's very much how the horse and knight relationship and it not just being that, but also in the way being sort of a trap that the elder brother found himself in in that moment, is positioned. Well, when the elder brother woke up, he was washed up on the quiet isle, he was naked, people had looted his body,

but he also found himself then reborn at this river. I think it's interesting that we get this passage about the elder brother and his experiences right after the broken man speech, and it gives me a lot of sort of complicated feelings, especially after Eliana's

wonderful monologue last episode. But yeah, like, do we have to feel sorry for another rapist? Yep. But also, I do sort of appreciate how both Maribold and Elder Brother are examples of how someone can

be rehabilitated after committing crimes. And how there are solutions to dealing with people like rapists besides the usual Westerosi solution of gelding them or sending them to the wall. And, I mean, I do absolutely get wanting to punish people for committing these kinds of actions. But, I mean, in general, I'm not a huge fan of strictly punitive justice. I mean, in general, I'm not a huge fan of strictly punitive justice.

And it's not like it actually works to prevent further crimes either. Not even the gelding thing. Like, you don't need a literal dick to commit sexual violence. So, I appreciate that this gives us another perspective on how to, yeah, rehabilitate people. I love that. I so agree because even with the horse, right? Like earlier in the mention, he's like, should I geld him? And he's like, no, what the fuck's wrong with you?

Just leave Driftwood alone. Just let him be. It's like, how would they learn, right? Like there's no chance of rehabilitating if you just punish someone. And Sandor's fate is being debated from all corners, as we mentioned right before this with Jaime and Ser religious farts of fuck in the last chapter. And they're obviously, they don't realize they're not talking about the Hound. They don't know that, but they're playing God with his life. And it seems that at least the Elder Brother and Maribel get that this isn't something in their hands to hurt people, to give them punishment.

Like they don't get to play that. They don't get to choose shoving them away in a dark ice cell or cubby to die. If they're going to do anything, they're going to at least try to help and try to rehabilitate them to this new life and try to give them another purpose or give them something else to do i find that really interesting like it's just like the one pocket we come to see where justice isn't just cutting someone's hand off right or cutting their fingers off justice is actually making them see why it was wrong what they did and that there's a different way they could live it was wrong what they did and that there's a different way they could live yeah justice is an action of writing wrongs right um in a way but there's a question of how are those wrongs righted you know the elder brother is trying to pay it forward in a way right to make a better world

what lo is saying right like more bodily harm does not necessarily create justice. And especially, you know, when you're talking about gelding, it's a very sexual nature. I mean, granted, the crime was a sexual nature as well, right? But when you start policing bodies in that one sexual way, where does the spectrum of that sort of violence end, especially when you're trying to reinforce, as we've been talking about, right? Like, what sort of body, what sort of life people are allowed to live in, and how they express that. And continuing to police that doesn't necessarily help. But it's kind of also funny, because I'm thinking about it in terms of justice, but also in terms of mercy, right? Because it feels like a lot of what is being demonstrated at the quiet

aisle is a mercy, it's it's not the kind where you kill people off for mercy i mean it isn't it isn't right because you're dying and there's a rebirth and that's very much tied to within the faith of the seven the mother and yet it's an aisle where women aren't really allowed or anyone who isn't like considered a man isn't really allowed. So interesting stuff going on. Interesting. For ten years, the elder brother was silent. He took a vow of silence, which this does remind me a little bit, especially with the Reaver coming off of the Reaver a couple chapters ago.

The silent men of Euron's crew forced into their silence as servitude, pretty much slavery to Euron, and the rebirth in the waters for the ironborn. Very different, right? Because you're being plunged into the water to come back, hopefully with some sort of power you've manifested from the drowned God. And obviously the ironborn way doesn't really seem the right way, but it's an interesting comparison to where theirs is rescuing people

sometimes from the water and giving them this new life and making them choose silence, not forcing them to take silence. Yeah, exactly. Like Mary Bold pointed out when talking about the silence isters, you have to choose it for it to matter.

And you're in this sort of place with different religious and cultural traditions, taking what power he can get from them, and then just not giving a fuck about the rest, or any morals or ethics or whatever. That is true. He's a sort of hodgepodge,

and that's what he's presented as, you know. All these terrifying signifiers from different cultures. Well, as the elder brother gives the speech, Brienne is kind of all these terrifying signifiers from different cultures well as the elder brother gives the speech Brienne is kind of confused as to why she's hearing it and is sort of like why am I this man's therapist right now

moot and I will say to the elder brother's credit it isn't at least unpaid labor because Brienne is getting a free Airbnb out of this and also got a meal out of all this true but you know in

a twist of events turns out Brienne is not the therapist but is in fact the one receiving counseling switcheroo it's true and Brienne doesn't quite get it yet but she's about ah there's this great line

before we jump into this there is a line that i really love that brienne says i see and he goes do you question mark question mark do you get it brienne do you get what I'm saying it's a total like play on words that he's like so I died on the trident Brianne and I took a vow for 10 years of silence because I was dead and I got brought here do you see do you get it the hound is dead do you get it Brianne did you you got it see what I'm saying he's's dead. He's dead. Did you see? It's pretty interesting the way George is using language. And also, like, it really just opens up.

I know everybody hates the whole everybody is somebody else and that's stupid. And why is everybody just alive? But it's like, it's true. I mean, it's not our fault for thinking that when George keeps doing it. Right. You have Alaris, Sorella. You have Aegon, young Griff. You have Sandor, the gravedigger. I mean, it's not our fault.

You can't just go yell and be like, here are all these secret identities, and then say, no, not like that. It's not fair. I mean, he could if he really, anyways. He could, but he'd have to put out a book to do so. So until then all we have is this book and the other books that are alan and i mean we can dig into it you know what you're saying of the do you as we close out this chapter do you he leaned forward his big hands on his knees. If so, give up this quest of yours.

The hound is dead, and in any case, he never had your Sansa Stark. As for this beast who wears his helm, he will be found and hanged. The wars are ending, and these outlaws cannot survive the peace. Randall Tarly is hunting them for Maidenpool, and Walder Frey from the Twins, and there is a new young lord in Derry, a pious man who will surely set his lands to rights. Go home, child. You have a home, which is more than many can say in these dark days. You have a noble father who must surely love you. Consider his grief if you should never return. Perhaps they will bring your sword and shield to him after you have fallen.

Perhaps he will even hang them in his hall and look on them with pride. But if you were to ask him, I know he would tell you that he would sooner have a living daughter than a shattered shield. you that you would sooner have a living daughter than a shattered shield." A daughter… Brienne's eyes filled with tears. He deserves that. A daughter who could sing to him, engrave his halls and bear him grandsons. He deserves a son too, a strong and gallant son to bring honor to his name. Galadon drowned when I was four and he was eight though, and Alicent and Ariane died still in the cradle. I am the only child the gods let him keep. The freakish one, not fit to be son or daughter. All of it came pouring out of Brienne then, like black blood from a wound. The betrayals and betrothals,

Red Ronnet and his rose, Lord Renly dancing with her, the wager for her maiden head, the bitter tears she shed the night her king wed Margaery Tyrell, the melee at Britherbridge, the rainbow cloak that she had been so proud of, the shadow in the king's pavilion, Renly dying in her arms, Riverrun and Lady Catelyn, the voyage down the trident, the yuleing Jaime in the woods, the bloody mummers, Jaime crying sapphires. Jaime in the hot tub at Harrenhal with steam rising from his body, the taste of Vargo Hoth's blood when she bit down on his ear. The bear pit. Jaime leaping down onto the sand. The long ride to King's Landing.

Sansa Stark. The vow she swore to Jaime. The vow she swore to Lady Catelyn. Oathkeeper. Dusk in the Maidenpool. Nimble Dick and Crackclaw in the Whispers. The men she killed. I have to find her, she finished.

There are others looking, all wanting to capture her and sell her to the queen. I have to find her first. I promised Jaime, oath keeper, he named the sword. I have to try to save her, or die in the attempt. up reading this. It's the best passage. You did amazing. Thank you. I think, yeah, we were starting to, we were all starting to tear up too. No? Mm-mm.

I've never cried in this show, so. You've, no, never. Chloe's never cried. No, I don't do crying in this whole thing, so. Yeah. I mean, where to begin? The Ellerbrother sort of accepts that Brienne is a knight but still thinks they should go home and be a daughter.

And I mean, this quote is just so emotional to me. And like, last episode, some talked about the quote by Randall Fuckface Tarly about how some men are blessed with sons and some with daughters. But Brianne's dad was cursed with such as her. Sam noted that he relates a lot to this fear of being a curse to your family and how this quote is just very emotional. And I mean, this is my that quote. This is the one that makes me relate a lot. And get very emotional. And I think a lot of people can relate to Brienne on some level.

Like feeling like you don't fit in. Feeling awkward being awkward. Feeling like you can't live up to expectations. Feeling like you're mocked by other people. But I think quotes like this one and the one from last chapter just hits you on another level if you're trans or queer. And I think it hits you in a way that I honestly don't think people who aren't queer or trans can fully understand. And like, I do really, really relate to what Brianna expresses here. And I've read this quote so many times, and it's a punch in the gut every damn time. Because like, I'm generally quite comfortable with myself nowadays, with my gender and my gender expression.

And I do have a supportive family, but this stuff is still something that I think about late at night when my anxiety kicks in. This is what's going through my head, that I can't help thinking that my parents deserved something easier than me. That they deserved a son or a daughter, not me. And especially my mom, who only has one child. She only got me. And I... Yeah, I'm the only one the gods let her have. The freakish one, not fit to be son or daughter.

So, yeah. Brienne thinks that they're not good enough. The freakish one, not fit to be son or daughter. So yeah, Brienne thinks that they're not good enough. They're not a son or a daughter. They're not good enough. And obviously, like I mentioned, this reminds me of what Randall said last chapter about how no one should be cursed with such as Brienne. But Brienne has heard this from so many people, not just Randall. And I'm also just reminded of what Red Ronneth said in a recent Jaime chapter, where he calls Brienne a freak and continually compares them to different animals.

As a bear, and just dehumanizing them, equating them to animals. And all of that just, it makes so much sense that people would see Brianne like that, because those of us who don't conform to gender norms are often viewed that way, as less human. Instead of being accepted as a subject, a proper person, we are reduced to the abject, which is unbearable, unthinkable, needs to be rejected. Because basically, to be recognized as a coherent subject in our world, you need to conform to certain norms. You need to have a body that lines up with your gender, gender expression, in the way that society expects. And if it it doesn't you don't make sense to people people don't recognize you as a subject as a proper person and arguably trans and gender

non-conforming people are seen as like not proper people as people who don't make sense as unnatural as monstrous a lot of the time. As freakish. There's been a lot written about this in gender studies and trans studies. Perhaps most famously, there's Dr. Susan Stryker's 1994 article My Words to Victor Frankenstein Above the Village of Chamonix Performing Transgender Rage, which is excellent and I really recommend people reading. You can find a PDF online if you google. In this article, Stryker talks about how trans people have often been compared to Frankenstein's monster and seen as monstrous

because we force people to question what they believe to be the natural order. Stark also talks about how we can reclaim that position as monsters. We don't just have to accept being put there, we can reclaim it. And we can challenge the pain that we feel and challenge that into rage and use that rage to change the world for the better. So, I mean, basically it's what Tyrion says about making insults into your armor, but a bit less cynical, I guess. And I just, I really hope that Brienne can do that one day too,

and reclaim all the things people have said to them, and fight for a better world. I mean, they already are, but continue to do that. Thank you for saying this, Lo. That was really beautifully said, and especially from your own experiences. And I mean, for Brienne, for a character that is so, definitely appears as gender nonconforming,

and definitely is facing added, like more added violence from others than you see in most of the POVs, more tension. I really hope Brienne can do that one day too. I hope that that's what Brienne gets to do. It would be, I mean, I'm not saying I'm hoping George woobifies the story and everyone has a happy ending here, but I think Brienne is one of those characters that A, deserves and B, should have a happier ending, just from all the things they're going through. And there's something interesting in this,

in that there's a saying that a pilgrimage is never over, right? And when you take a religious pilgrimage, it's never actually over. And Elder Brother and Maribald think that they can sway her to go home and to get off of this path and to save herself. Save yourself, Brienne. But the point of the pilgrimage is not that you go home after. The point of the pilgrimage is that you should never end from your initial leaving and undertaking.

Brienne's pilgrimage isn't coming to this island. Brienne's pilgrimage started when they left home. In that passage, Brienne details to us everything that she's suffered on this journey so far, and every obstacle that she's overcome to become a warrior following Renly's camp. Her journey has changed, and in that, it has changed her. So it's funny that they think this would send Brienne home when it will do anything but, like in fact it's probably doing the exact opposite. Maybe in their heads they're banking on that, too. I mean, they could really use more Briennes roaming out here on the road. There's this quote that I found from this Christian book. It's not

an important book. I'm not going to quote the book, but it really resonated with this. Penance does not ask you to change your mind about anything. It trusts your mind to adapt to your body so your mind will gradually change of its own accord. Penance respects the will of the person. It does not seek to impose thought or feeling on someone who is resistant. pilgrimage never ends. This is why it works. We need short-term and long-term solutions to our pain and suffering. We need to go on a journey rather than just learn a magic spell. It's hard work on the road alone, but it's worth doing. And it just makes me think so much of Brienne, because Brienne can't just say a magic spell to make their life easier out here on the road and make their journey easier. And Brienne is seeking a short-term and long-term solution to their happiness on the road and their happiness forever yeah you're saying that now just made me think about something that i had talked about in like the conclusion of my

master's thesis was which was about non-binary people and I talked about how claiming a position as a non-binary person is something you do once, is something you do every day. You can't just say it once to the world and have them accept you. You have to continually put in the work to do that, to claim that position. I think that resonates so much with what you're saying about a pilgrimage, how that's something you have to continue doing as well. It's a really interesting connection. And, you know, I want to echo also what Chloe said. Thanks for sharing, you know, how you really relate to this passage

and why you chose this chapter and how you see it echo your own life as well. Because I also know people were wondering if you're going to pick the previous chapter, as you know. But also, you know, this part of what you're gonna pick the previous chapter as you know um but also you know this part of what you're saying right and hoping that grianne can change the world for the better channel that rage into something that is a positive force and also um i just wanted to be you know say thank you lo because you were also that i know our friend virginie was on twitter talking about how you are one of um Virginie's favorite people in this fandom.

And I feel like you do things to make the world better. So that's all. Me too. You make my world better, Lo. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in regards to this act of Brienne, I mean, Brienne's so young, it's so hard for them to understand, like, that, and is having such a hard time finding their people, right? Like, who will affirm who they

are and so forth. And I'm not sure that, you know, forgiveness is an act and atonement's an act every day, as you were saying, like, having to be non-binary in this world. And I think, again, Brienne having to learn to accept that and fight for that every day in themselves and I'm not sure if the elder brother and the Maribold think that all the things that they're saying right now are going to change her mind but I do think that they certainly hope that all of their speeches are going to change Brienne's mind because I think that there is something in Brienne's like I wonder if there's something like in Brienne's appearance that we are not seeing as the reader because we are looking at Brienne's POV. Because I don't know if they're just telling Brienne to go home because of her

gender or like her body. But because I think that there's something maybe in the way that Brienne appears physically, that both Maribold and the Elder Brother see themselves, their own past as soldiers, as broken men, being reflected in Brienne already. about his own life, and then asks them, do you, in regards to Brienne seeing, and I don't know if it's just about Sandor, because the elder brother is impressing that he lost himself in that fight at the Trident, and that the moment of brokenness that was symbolized in chasing another horse, for Sandor, it was solely chasing vengeance on his brother,

and I think that they're seeing that brienne is chasing something and they see this moment of brokenness beginning to happen in brienne and i almost wonder if sadly like does the end of the chapter confirm it for them right as as they say i have to try and save her or die in the attempt. And that there is more than one kind of death. Though yes, there is a hope that if that happens to you, that sort of death happens to you, maybe you have a chance at rebirth.

There's hope for it afterwards. That's what the quiet isle represents for many of the men who are here. That when the elder brother says like, but if you were to ask him, I know he would tell you that he would sooner have a living daughter than a shattered shield. This to me feels so closely like a mirror to Catelyn telling Rob to end this war, to trade for his sisters, go home and live, have children, just live a full life, right? sisters go home and live have children just live a full life right uh but rob like brienne continues to persist in this war in this fighting and all this blood and perhaps rob like brienne thinks of the pain of like all that he's lost and that he has to continue to just like keep going forward

to make all the pain worth it to make all these deaths worth it um And maybe to atone. I don't know. For his own mistakes he fails. Of setting Theon free. Maybe for marrying Jane. For failing to stop Tywin from heading east. I don't know. We don't have a raw POV. Though we do wish we did. But the list of things that are there.

That makes it necessary to keep going. In this maybe fruitless quest. That list doesn't stop. And as we see fruitless quest. That list doesn't stop. And as we see in this one paragraph, it doesn't stop for Brienne, who thinks that they must continue on. And unfortunately, as Brienne's story goes, that list gets longer. I definitely agree with all of that. I think the Little Brother and Marible see themselves in Brienne and try to help. The elder brother and Maribel see themselves in Brienne and try to help.

But I think one of the reasons that they don't get through to them is because they don't fully consider the gender aspect. And the elder brother doesn't fully realize what it would mean for Brienne to give up their knight's quest and go home to be a living daughter. And he doesn't fully understand that that would mean giving up a part of themselves. A part of their identity. A part of their gendered subjectivity. And I mean I think to Brienne. Maybe it is better to die as yourself. Than to live as something you're not.

And I mean we can hope that Brienne finds a way to do both. And live as themselves. But I don't think they can see how that would be possible right now and I think that's similar to how so many queer and trans folk feel that when you've never seen someone as you walk the path you're trying to take when you've never seen someone like living a happy fulfilled life it feels impossible for it to work out for you brian doesn't know where they'll end up but they they try to go forward anyway yeah because it feels like keeping yourself hidden like that and not expressing yourself and living the life that you could live and like watching that float by you that feels like dying i mean that's

just as bad as dying to brienne and that's what brienne spent most of her life doing right not being herself and i think there's also part of it that's like the part that she does compromise on in the next two chapters is that instead of continually seeking Sansa she saves the children at the inn right and I think that's the compromise she makes in this in that like okay maybe I don't need to only seek Sansa maybe there's a way I can do good now right now to someone that is here and real and present and she finds herself in that situation at the right place at the wrong time right yeah it certainly does feel that way and i think that's something else right that gets probably added to the list of the things of like why brienne is like i have to continue on this journey and doesn't realize i

mean you were talking about penance as a short and long-term solution brienne doesn't see quite yet the long-term solution the end of that journey and that destination only the short-term solution. Brienne doesn't see quite yet the long-term solution, the end of that journey and that destination, only the short-term one of Sansa Stark. And I mean, it's hard work, right, to try and understand yourself and especially in a world where, as you said, Lo, right, like, there's nothing visible. So you can see what that destination looks like. And so the focus is on Sansa right now as that short-term solution. And also it's interesting to think of you were saying that Brienne can't go back there, right? Because Brienne

can't go back to that life of not being who they are. And it makes me think of if I look back, I am lost. And I think that's a little bit of what Brienne is doing here too. And yes, Brienne's a little lost right now, but also not that kind of lost, which is, you know, and yeah, in regards to there, there's also something there that I don't

know if we'll get to explore it more one day or not, because Selwyn does keep coming up and the idea of returning back to the Sapphire Isle. And also Brienne doesn't seem to think that doesn't seem to have any memories of selwyn that are quite like randall tarley towards sam so i think like someone is like mostly supportive and there's something to brienne's story that is reminiscent of the prodigal son from the bible who basically tells their dad um i would like my inheritance which apparently during that time culturally was basically like i fuck you, I wish you were dead because I want the thing that I get when you're dead. That's the loaded connotation behind it. And then goes out, parties, has a great time.

Brienne is not partying. Brienne is not having a great time. But the idea that going back home, you would be still loved. And I think, I hope for that for Brienne. Yeah. Well, what do you think, you two? Good? Anything else before we close up?

Lo, any last words? A horse? Damn, are you, like, executing, Lo? What the fuck? Any last words? Walk the fucking plank, Lo. No, I'm just sad and trans. That's it.

That is kind of how the end of our episodes keep going huh sad and trans I'm sorry we didn't go sad horny this time usually it's sad horny I'm sorry we'll have to next time next POV you join us for

we will angle it sad horny I don't know I mean she didn't even think about jamie's dick in this one i didn't even get to make any that's true you just thought about sandor's dick the whole time didn't you chloe well thank you so much for joining us for this episode lo i don't think that we could have done it without you brienne six was a perfect chapter to have you on for and of course we cannot wait to have you back again someday. But first, please let everyone know at home

where they can find you online once more. Yes, so you can find me on Twitter at Lodelinks with underscores between the words. I post sad Brienne thoughts sometimes, and most of the time, a lot of pictures of my cat. And you can also find me on my WordPress, lodelinks.wordpress.com. Please go check out Lo's stuff. There's a lot of really great analysis on all sorts of characters and elements of the story

on lodelinks.wordpress.com with underscores. And if you also would like to, you can also follow us on social media. You can find us at Girls Gone Canon, C-A-N-O-N on Twitter. Or maybe you have thoughts that you would like to share with us. You can send them to us at girlsgonecanon at gmail dot com.

Yes, and don't forget to subscribe to us on a streaming platform near you, whatever your favorite is, whether that is itunes google play spotify stitcher a cast you name it we're on there or podbean where we're hosted you can also always find us on patreon at patreon.com slash girls gone canon as we said we have bonus episodes every month for patrons in the stranger tier and above. Ooh, or it should be renamed the driftwood tier and above. Low seems intrigued.

Low seems intrigued. Anyways, this month's Patreon episode is not His Dark Materials nor Song of Ice and Fire. It is the Song of Achilles. I'm so excited for that. And I mean, Lo is reading it too which I'm excited about because as I told

them sad and gay. Sad and gay. That's how you get me to read something or watch something. Chloe saying he's sad and gay. Have I been wrong yet? Have I led you astray yet Lo? No. You've led me to crying a lot.

We invited Lo on and we Lo on and then Lo cried and I was like oh no did we do a bad thing? it's the curse of Chloe it's the curse of the Chloe as always I have been one of your hosts Chloe and I have been another one of your hosts

Eliana we'll see you next week for Brienne 7. And then, wow, and then Brienne 8. Oh my god, it's over. I know, right? Sansa Stark all over again. We can just rotate between Brienne, Sansa, Brienne,

Sansa. Throw in a Catelyn in there when we're feeling spicy Yeah Or an Asha Ah Thanks and we'll talk to you next week everyone Bye