Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 159 — AFFC Samwell IV featuring Zack (Game of Owns)

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

And now his watch is ended... but not our read-through! Zack from Game of Owns joins us to talk about Aemon's life, Sam's fear, Gilly's heroism, Kojja Mo's wisdom, and more in this chapter. There's some fiery banter but also talk about literal fire and things that taste like fire.  Where to find Zack:  Game of Owns website — http://gameofowns.com/   GOO Patreon — https://www.patreon.com/goo  Game of Owns Twitter — https://twitter.com/GameOfOwns  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire Episode 159, Sand 4 in A Feast For Crows, featuring Zach from Game of Owns. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Aliana. And yes, this week we have a guest. Oh my god. Oh my god.

A guest. Hello, Zach. Zach, I'm so glad we could tear you all the way out of the pages of the Tome, Fire and Blood. Because I know you and your co-host who we've had on before, Hannah, came on back in the old John days. Now you're here for Sam. Perfect match. So what's up with Game of Owns? What's the word? We're having a lot of fun right now because when we finished a feast of dragons we were like what do we do and so with all the options george has laid before us chose the obvious path and went

into fire and blood before house of the dragon and thank god that hbo decided not to release the show on a regular schedule because we have a lot to get through before we get to how hot the material and fire and blood so we're just trying to get there. Oh, damn. Yeah, where are you guys at right now? Where are you guys at right now? We just finished Surfeit of Rulers, and I have an episode in the bank right now that I need to get out to everyone. I forget what the chapter was called, though.

Anybody remember that next chapter? I don't even know what the chapter entitled Surfeit of Rulers encompasses. Chapter 7, Eliana. Come on. Oh my god. The next one is A Time of Testing. The Realm Remade. A Time of Testing.

And that one, that's got a lot of Jaehaerys, right? Jaehaerys coming back with his mom. Jaehaerys comes back from Dragonstone. I see. For the first time. Yeah. Okay. After the training montage.

Oh, okay. Eventually Allie comes and joins him. Go Politrates. Get it. Right? That's what I've. Yeah. Okay. After the training montage. Oh, okay. Eventually, Ally comes and joins him. Go Paul Atreides. Get it. Right? That's what I've been saying. That's awesome. I've been saying that.

It is kind of like similar feeling, right? It does. I can see that. Completely. Complete Paul Atreides vibes. Yeah. His direct statements that are so cutting, and you can kind of hear it out of the voice of a younger throat.

Did you ever listen to the Dune audiobooks? I not know who did that do you know i don't remember okay you would love it though okay i gotta check that out and so i know you guys have put out now seven that is an exciting undertaking. We were exhausted just from doing the dance, honestly, of covering only the dance. Dancing is hard. Dancing was a lot of work. Those dragons, they danced

for hours. They danced for a long ass time. They danced for years, even. Well, I am jealous. I do want to get into some of the fun fire and blood stuff at the start of the book i really like a lot of the jaharis and alice and stuff i think there's some really rich content in there and i guess i understand that it would be really hard to have like 13 different targaryens all on one screen that are related to each other you know 15 i guess if you

count jaharis and alice and that could not be an easy show to adapt so i can see why we don't have that but it's a lot of cma or though could you imagine it'd be interesting it would be interesting i don't even know how you would adapt that like the whole situation with the black brides and just just the violence at king's landing alone not to mention the surrounding areas and the stuff with the God's Eye, but literally just what's happening there and the response to his cruelty. Yeah. I know a lot of people do want, you know, those parts,

the earlier parts of the book too, especially the conquest. The conquest, I think, is a little easier to adapt than... They could almost do that in a Lord of the Rings style opening where there's the narrative and it shows all the you know what I'm talking about

long ago three dragon riders came from Valyria but when the world needed him most he vanished oh my god for four thousand years well we'll get into some firebending today we'll definitely bring up some firebenders of yore,

of aeswaf yore, if you will. Oh. No, not yours. Let's jump into some housekeeping up top. I'm so excited to have you on, Zach. Thanks again for joining us. I'm so happy to be here. This is exciting.

This is going to be good. It's going to be a great episode. Can I just say that Chloe just called for owns on Twitter before this episode, which was so sweet and funny. That's all. I know how it's played. I know about that Game of Owns podcast. Zach, where can you find goo? I know obviously there is the Great Goo website.

Thegreatgoo.com. No, that's just Game of Owns. You should take that domain. Someone else do it and point it to something silly. Do that instead. Just GameofOwns.com. And if you go to any podcast app, you just type in Game of Owns. That's it.

That's where you find it. I'm a Spotify-er. If I listen, you know, I tend to Spotify. I go to the webpage or the Spotify. Those are my... Has your Spotify app been like messing up podcasts lately? Like restarting? Yeah, absolutely.

It's been really weird. If you delete your app and reinstall it, I fixed mine today doing that. It works. So PSA to anyone. I gotta do that. Yeah. Also on our website,

all of our episodes are sorted by like books and tv season and there's even a one for the reading order so if you're interested in that check it out aspirational it is aspirational eliana i remember i remember uh yeah grilling zack about this actually recently i was like zack oh yeah so you made your website yeah i was like yeah i drew it i can't do the programming oh wait shit that's right that was world that's world con yeah i'm sorry i'm fusing it with dragon con and i didn't go to the con yeah so i'm like what the fuck is he talking about hanging out we had a lot in the world i'm in the world well you know eliana is going to have to

have eliana con this weekend or Or next weekend, I should say. Can I be on a panel? No, because you're going to be really busy. You and I will be at Ice and FireCon. Oh, that's what you mean. It's coming up real fast next week if you're listening to this in real time. And Eliana

and I have decided that since she can't quite make it to the convention this year, it means war. I mean, this means civil war. Greens versus the blacks. Yeah, greens. Eliana's the greens. I'm the blacks.

That's just because I said it faster last week than she did. No, it's because of some things that you're preparing for the con that I think are a surprise, which is why we didn't tell everyone the real reason. Yeah. Well, we will still be having a brunch and happy hour for patrons in the thunder tier and above if you are a thunder tier member or above over at patreon there is going to be every month brunch slash happy hour sometimes we play games sometimes we just chit chat on the discord it's a blast you should come hang out this month we're splitting it up eliana the greens anyone who will not be able to be with us in person at ice and fire con will be

on discord right on april 24th and what time are you going to be on eliana same time as you that's how you know it's a war real time wow that is a war council i think that there are some other ways to tell if it's war. Maybe I should call the attorney at Heron Hall. Who knows? We'll be live at Ice and Fire Con having a brunch slash happy hour at 11.45 a.m. It'll last for an hour at Ice and Fire Con, though, because I am on a panel at 1 p.m., which you should all come to. Everyone can just follow along from the hang.

So bring your own BYOB, your own beverage or your own snack and come hang out. We'll probably meet up in the lobby at Ice and Fire Con at the Lodge. And we, on our War Council, we will be meeting also at 11.45am

Eliana Standard Time. And ET. we will be meeting also at 11 45 a.m eliana standard time and uh et so uh we might go more than an hour you know just because that's how you win the war yeah you survive oh my god and we will we will be playing also some games different games than we have in the past because it is you know a game of thrones right that That's how you know. I think I'm going to bring some sort of reindeer game myself. I don't know why, but something. Some sort of reindeer game to the convention.

And if you're a patron in the Stranger tier, the $5 tier and up, that is not the end of the fun, right? You actually have some bonus episodes available to you. And we've had quite a have some bonus episodes available to you and we've had quite a run of bonus episodes lately last month we did eliana's favorite episode ever her it was it march shroom it was her child straight up yeah and then this month is also i guess my child but also again inspired by my muse chloe oh my god it It's April Fool's.

Yeah, we'll be talking about some performers right in Aeswaf. Some butter bumps up in here. Butter bumping in the house. Oh my god. That'll come out by the end of the month for you all. And if you're a patron of ours and you like His Dark Materials,

we are finishing up the Amber Spyglass right now, the third book in the trilogy. However, there is a new book coming out end of the month called The Imagination Chamber. And it seems to be like a novella similar to some of the other shorter reads for His Dark Materials that we've covered. So be sure to tune in for May as well

for a bonus episode on His Dark Materials. It's been a bit. It may be a good time. Oh, my God. Well, you know, Zach, you and I are on a panel together at Ice and Fire Con, Saturday of Ice and Fire Con at noon in the main programming room. We have a panel called Choose Your Own Reading Order.

We do. It's going to be a lot like those old Goosebump books. We're going to have only part of it planned, and then you get to just pick what we do next throughout the link right that's our plan right no my god chloe's stressed now why did you say that you're right you know i have a neurosis no i'm just kidding we uh both of our podcasts have we've spent like a long time i don't know how many episodes but years now of making episodes of exploring a song vice and fire through a non-conventional way like not turning the book

in its chronological order for the choices behind us building a feast of dragons really similar to how you guys laid out your path for the podcast we was based on the the characters like the how these characters with us chronologically fit with one another but also within that chronology some thematic angles as well but for y'all i've talked to you about this before um off podcast but i just thought that was like the world needed a podcast to go through a song of ice and fire like y'all's did from taking one character and going through their whole course and then choosing the next character beside it and i've always been surprised like where you guys have gone next it seems like whenever i feel satisfied that something's happening it's like oh wait you

guys are doing sam now and i know there's only so many people so maybe that's not a great point but it's it's been cool to see happen so i guess we're just going to talk about that yeah i'm excited thank you it's true though and you guys were kind of some of what we thought about you know when we chose that order that we thought a little bit of how some of those thematic choices came in where you put different chapters where it could have been you know you know your cat of the canals could have gone in a couple places but dramatically put it here and it's really fun to have a bigger pool to choose from. I'm really excited. We won't give away the whole panel today, but we're going to talk a lot about some of the characters

and choices, and we maybe will reveal some hints, you know, for Girls Gone Canon fans that are still puzzling it out. Aliana and I have seen a couple close guesses. Yeah, we have. We have. We're not going to say who, but we've seen some good guesses. We would never tell you.

The chapter that we're talking about today, we actually have toward the end of Feast of Dragons, which was so neat when you think about it. When you go from Sam 3 to Sam 4, when you're in Braavos to being right outside Old Town, or I guess outside Dorne. The travelogue. So neat how whenever you put both those books together, it's spaced out so far. Anyway, not a very deep point, but if you think about it, you'll come up with some ideas on your own, people. Yeah. Maybe we'll have some fun interactive

where everyone can choose their own reading order, you know, like what they would do. I think that would be a cool exercise to have everyone leave going like, this is what I would do even if it's just one run of like a Game of Thrones. I would reorganize it this way because it is kind of a blast. I definitely have, I have some orders I want to do. You know, like I want to do like a golden trio reread

and only read Lannisters. Oh, that is so cool. I haven't thought about that yet. And have it just be one, two, three. Yeah. Yeah. Or like Targaryens only once we get Jon. Yeah.

Yeah, I think some people have done like Iron Islands. Yeah, I forgot. I don't know if it was Stephen Sosay or something yeah yeah or like targaryens only once we get john yeah yeah i think i feel like that could yeah i forgot i don't know if it was that would be detailed or something who's doing something like that but can i just ask how cool it was to do davos chronologically for y'all like personally that must have been so neat it was fun those were really fun chapters really rich chapters there's a lot in all of that for sure uh are not a cast guys they how many of the davos chap like four parters half the time right on the ones they've done so far they put so much depth into those chapters so uh we we simply walk in the shadow there i personally would start with the winds of winter then a dream of spring

yeah i like that yeah i would start with the winds of winter then a dream of spring yeah i like that yeah i would start with uh well i'm excited to see you at ice and fire con when george is gonna announce the winds of winter that weekend you know at our party that would be wild that would be crazy if he did holy shit yeah he's gonna zoom in think, during the party. We're going to get a projector for it. I hope. Oh, my God. Let's tell people that's all of our snacks get eaten. That would be, don't tease me like that.

That would be the coolest thing. We are hosting, there's a little unofficial party Friday night at Ice and Fire Con if you're going, in the land of always winter. So look out for the signs. You will see them. You will see them. Find us and you'll know let's look for chloe like in hard home or like what's happening yeah exactly question are you

dead things in the water eliana oh my god without further ado let's jump into this podcast it is it is literally sometimes sometimes it's and liquor live laugh liquor and that's amen now he's live laugh liquor now exactly oh god well no actually he's more i guess liquor love laugh because he's not living anymore do you think about it yeah you're right he's pickled also being brined well let's jump into our lightning round of what we missed between sam 3 and sam 4 start off with jamie 3 after a long day at work jamie finds himself defending his girlfriend's honor with a fist in red ronit's Comedians aren't safe anymore.

Taking that out. Oh my god! Please don't. Please don't. Cersei six. The always sunny. Cersei rearms the face. I just heard trailer park boys in my head and said,

the reaver. Sick of being cucked by his brother at every turn, Victarion prepares to steal the apple of Euron's third eye himself. F you, Talbert Sarey. Jaime reaches the next stop in his cleaning up people's bullshit parade, the Castle of Derry.

He gets truth from Lancel of his and Cersei's relationship. Brienne 6. Brienne lands on the Quiet Isle, where broken men remind her of her mission. Cersei 7. Cersei sends

Felice to the Black Cells. Jaime 5. Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. Ooh. Cat of the canals, anchored by a watchman's vow-breaking, Arya gives him a trip right on into the canal. Sam 4 overview. Sam is taken through the emotional ringers he tries to figure out what it's all about. You know, life, death, sex, all that shit.

Indeed, indeed. So, we open with the cinnamon wind, a swan ship out of Tall Tree's town, which sounds like something from, I don't know. It reminds me of Donkey Kong, but also in, I think it's the Hoenn region of Pokemon. There's a tree town or something. there's a tree town or something but on the summer isles and george has written like the the men are black and the women are wanted and they're like strange gods aboard and no septon leads them in prayer and the task therefore falls to samuel tarly who eulogizes amen and i'm gonna be real these opening lines were not they were not george r martin's george railroad martin's finest moment there is like a little bit of that going on in this chapter.

And it's hard because I actually, in rereading it this slowly, and I'll talk about some of my love for it later, I think this chapter gets a really bad rap for some of the language in it as we get to Sam's cock later, right? Like a lot of people of my buddies are always like, ooh, fat pink mask. But I think it is such a moving emotional deep chapter about i mean all of the big themes in a song of ice and fire are really rearing their head

here but there is just a little bit of like george being like let's talk about the exotic people and yeah i guess some of it's like maybe that's uh maybe that's some reach prejudice coming from sam of just not really having been much elsewhere. But we also see it juxtaposed against Gilly, who hasn't been much elsewhere, being completely open minded. So I don't know. Exactly. Yeah. She feels really close to them as well.

Like it doesn't matter where they're from. What really matters most to Gilly is the similarities they share and shared her experience like having really traumatic experiences with craster you know she feels closer safer with women and so she's not weirded out at all by the fact that they're so different or that their customs are different she can just tell that this person is loving as well and that's what matters most to her and i think that's really that's really poignant coming from gilly because she is a Free Folk. They are a very, you know, they're not a homogenous group of people. They're made up of several different tribes as we find out.

But the way that the Free Folk are seen by many of the Westerosi is the way that Sam kind of reacts to some of the Summer Islanders until he gets to know them. So I think there's something really, really strong going on there. But I think these parts are actually, fat pink mask good this part not not great george yeah it's like if they would have led into it like earned it if it if it wasn't just the last time we saw sam was so far away and now he's here and now he has all these really distinct thoughts about these brand new folks it would probably seem a little bit less shocking but it's kind of like everything all at once, instead of gradually getting into the way that he describes these people. He was a great man, a maester of the citadel,

chained and sworn, and sworn brother of the Night's Watch, ever faithful. When he was born, they named him for a hero who died too young, but though he lived a long, long time, his own life was no less heroic. No man was wiser, or gentler, or kinder. At the Wall, a dozen lords-commander came and went during his years of service, but he was always there to counsel them. He counseled kings as well. He could have been a king himself, but when they offered him the crown, he told them they should give it to his younger brother. How many men would do that? Sam felt the tears welling in

his eyes and knew he could not go on much longer. He was the blood of the dragon, but now his fire has gone out. He was Aemon Targaryen, and now his watch has ended. And now his watch has ended, Gilly murmured after him, rocking the babe in her arms. Koja Moe echoed her in the common tongue of Westeros, then repeated the words in the summer tongue for Jeanne d'Eau and her father and the rest of the assembled crew. What's really clear is that Maester Aemon is the one that, those people are real enough to know how real Maester Aemon is. That he's someone that, even at 102 years old, who isn't very mobile and isn't speaking at a very loud volume,

I think that their respect for him and them rolling out this pricey, I guess not incredibly rare thing that they have, a cask of rum, but just the amount of respect and the level of celebration to his life and his death that they gave him it was clear that this guy like i said without a lot of faculties to express himself like radiated this level of respect out of people that didn't even

know him that much and that sort of depth being subtly shoved into the chapter i think is just like the beginning glimmer of how deep this chapter goes through maester hayman's eyes or at least through his narration i love that about this chapter like how we get a lot of different levels of depth in a song of ice and fire but when someone as old as him and who's seen as much as him starts to talk about the story itself it almost feels like george r martin has like a cheat code to just like give us an info dump of stuff that's like really important and so I went into this originally when I read this chapter thinking it's going to be a short sort of travelogue chapter and uh I get halfway through it I actually looked at my notes from years ago that I wrote about this before coming

on and I was I had the same feeling before I was just like holy crap like this this this goes in like this is what I read this book for this kind of stuff yeah it's absolutely like an emotional chapter and it's one of the I think hearts of a feast for crows and of Sam's story and as you're saying right I really love the sense of camaraderie that the summer islanders bring to Maester Amon's funeral right they join Sam in mourning and they later on celebrate amon's life through sex and i mean like that kojamo translates this right from the night's watch and those those words so that the summer islanders can join in the morning and also so that they can themselves internalize and express the same sentiment in their words right i really love that and i i also feel that in a way sam's eulogy it's it kind

of is very reminiscent of john snow's story and also i love the way that sam expresses amen is sort of embodying this quiet heroism despite the allure of the songs and legends that we see so many of the young men in this series chasing yeah i have to echo but when they offered him the crown he told them they should give it to his younger brother how many men would do that i don't know why that's in this story does anyone know what that could mean i don't want i don't know i don't want it I'm just saying I mean that's our obvious I'm definitely really taken between their last ship that they were aboard

and the way that people treated Gilly and how they were like she's an evil abomination and the way they treated Aemon being like he's an old stinky piece of shit and now these people are like giving rightful respect to them and they protect i mean they protect gilly later they don't give a shit about sam sam's over here like but i'm almost a lord why

shouldn't people care about me and it's like nah gilly rules here dude gilly is she's the the queen of this shit that's true that to me speaks volumes that they really are like uh everything on this ship right now hinges on how you treat gilly so choose wisely yeah that's such a great point because on the last ship they were all like all this bad stuff is happening because we have a woman on this ship and here they're it the women hold as you said high esteem i'm kind of wondering it was that a thing on some ships i recently have finally finished the first season of our flag is death and there is like one point where they're like all this bad shit happened because we have a woman on our ship and i was

like is that a thing like that people like legit believed but i mean most sexism is just disguised as superstition eliana it's true what well i was just like for ages was that like a an actual superstition on ships i don't know i don't don't know about that. I think so. Sounds familiar. I mean, probably. That makes sense. But also, what a place for a girl to be in a ship with all those guys. Yeah.

If it was a superstition, it was probably made up by a girl. So that would not happen to her or any of them. Like, who wants to be in that position i guess some people would yeah just alone surrounded by a bunch of dudes i mean to be fair she was kind of sent on this half-death mission to keep oh yeah you know she had to she didn't ask for this yeah she no no one wanted this like literally killing i did not for this your sam was awesome by the way.

Thank you. I just pretend I'm Sam from Lord of the Rings. Oh my God. Oh wow, good trick. That's all I do. Thank you. That's all I do. I'm like, I'm Sam from Lord of the Rings.

I'm just dropping the weeds, honest. Every time I've seen those movies, I don't know that I've absorbed as much as I should have because I've usually been drinking. So I will say that when I say it's what I think he sounds like, it's what I think he sounds like. It's not what he sounds like. Right. No, it's not.

It sounds more like the actual Sam from Aswap. So it's working out good for me. Oh, great. See? Perfect. Don't tell anyone my secrets. I really go to Gollum. We know.

So Sam weeps and Gilly comforts him and the air is moist and warm and dead and calm zondo says that black sam said good words and now we drink his life a cask of spiced rum is rolled up onto the deck and the crew had only known amen for a short while as as zach has pointed out that the summer islanders revere the elderly and celebrate their dead. I mean, as they should. I will say that, like, especially when I worked in customer service, we had customers that, you know,

older customers that didn't have great memory and would come in and easily be scammed, right? And buy a bunch of bullshit they shouldn't. And the one rule that I always made sure to kind of intend on my people back then in retail was you don't scam old people you're kind to them yeah if you have a deal if you have a coupon at your counter you scan that shit for them and we always had coupons i'm like you give them a good deal because they've lived a long life and they don't need that bullshit and that is kind of like that is how it should be good for the summer islanders unless the old

people are assholes if they're aiming it's good you know yeah if they're aiming we're good if they're aiming we're good and i have to say i love sam's new nickname and i love that it's like lost in translation that obviously zondo is like sam wears blacks and he has a kind of a foul mood lately uh you know his clothes his position position, his disposition, Black Sam. And I think we talked about this before a while back. But, you know, in history, people that use the Black as a nickname, like Prince Edward the Black or Lezik the Second the Black. You think it's such like an intimidating name, but it's not meant to be intimidating, right? Prince Edward the Black's armor was black, and he had dark hair.

And Lezik the Black was also said to have black hair. So it's kind of a misnomer, right? You're naming, again, just like Savage Sam Tarly, right? Or Sam the Slayer. It's another misnomer for Sam. Piggy. Unless it's about his outlook on life right now, in which case he's pretty bleak.

I do love, as you were saying, he gets another name and how many more names? Sam could go up against Daenerys at this time. Well, he's what? Sam the Novice next, right? At the Citadel. He's a novice, so he's going to start getting names at the Citadel.

There you go, Eliana. Each chain, he'll probably get something new. Love that. Some people just get nicknames. Sam the novice, Sam the intermediate, Sam the expert, Maester Sam. Oh my God. Maester Sam. Oh, Maester Samwell. That's cute.

I'm happy for him it's gonna be a really hard oh yeah he's good to get I mean well maybe Maesters will be abolished who knows I'm worried for him it seems he seems pretty stressed about it in regards to like his dad and shit but maybe he could take

that chain and strangle his dad with it and pull a Tyrion oh I thought you were to say pull a Princess Leia against Chopper. I mean, that's actually the same thing, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh my god. That's something I gotta think about a little more. Anyways, Sam is having rum for the first time in his life.

It's sweet at first and then fiery. Yeah, I wrote down here that um i think that this description of rome is lovely i like when authors can communicate substances in a way more poetic and honestly just viscerally in a way this really allows me to communicate what it does like to make it make sense to someone else so like i could take this for example and tell if anyone was like what does rum taste like i'm like well it's fiery at first and then it's or sweet at first and then fiery it's just a way better way to talk about it than i would have i'd be like it's okay that's what i would have said it's okay i just like when

authors do that yeah i heard i heard an author describe smoking pot for the first time as taking a wrinkled up duvet and taking it outside and shaking out all the creases in it. I was like, whoa. I love that. It's not how it felt for me, but I'm glad it was for you. You're like, it felt like putting it in the dryer. I had a time.

You know, and if you want to hear about mushrooms, no, I'm just kidding. Wait. Is that what mushrooms is about? No, it's about mushrooms, Zach. Right. There was mushroom talk in it. Lots of mushrooms.

I think that's in our bloopers section, right? Yeah, that's got to be in our bloopers channel, I think. I might mushroom talk in it. Lots of mushrooms. I think that's in our bloopers section, right? That's got to be in our bloopers channel, I think. I might have left it in. I don't remember. I used to love Spiced Rum in my teens, and my dad doesn't drink liquor. He's a beer guy. He doesn't do liquor because he liked liquor too much when he was younger, and he made an embarrassing mess out of himself and so he sticks to beer uh and all through my childhood all i remember is you know him saying nope i just drink

beer there's a very embarrassing christmas story in it you guys will have to pull it out of him sometime if you see him again sometime in the future but he loves spiced rum and cider at christmas time hot cider and spiced rum was chip's favorite and i can never drink captain morgan spiced rum again because he only drank it once a year at christmas time i drank the spiced rum instead and he would never know because i was a teenager yes i drank my dad's drink yes all year year year long not at christmas yes uh so i thought you meant you drank it all the whole bottle oh i did not in one night i mean it was a half gallon that took me like at least a week or two as a teenager but you know with a friend but yeah no i oh yeah i i definitely

drank all of his spice rum because again some years he wouldn't even want it I definitely drink all of his spiced rum because, again, some years he wouldn't even want it. Is rum good? You think like this pirate rum that they have, is it good? This sounds good. This sounds like it has a flavor profile. It sounds like it's rich, like a deep flavor. Not like just Fireball. You know how Fireball is kind of shallow?

I like it. Sometimes you just need a little something, but it doesn't have much depth to it right and this sounds like it's actually got depth like it's thicker like it's almost like i don't know like gasoline for the liver right thicker like it rolls on your tongue is what i'm imagining right i'm thinking of the the canteens and like pirates the caribbean where they're like shaking it over their mouth like just trying to get the last drop like it's gotta be good they're doing that with it that's how shit is out there you know right for pirates

we get pirates in this chapter that's what I'm saying yeah like it must be really good for them yeah it's a pirate drink gotta make sure I mean and it only we only add a little more flavor to it later we add an ingredient would you drink out of the barrel if you like really and we only add a little more flavor to it later. We add an ingredient. Would you drink out of the barrel?

Oh, yeah. Like, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I just want to know. I want to know. She's really passionate about this. I'm passionate. Unless you're like, I really want to get drunk and we're out of everything else.

Let me just dip my cup in there. No, I don't think I would do it. I don't think I'd do it, like, after a week or two, right? Like, that's, like, kind of pushing it. But, like, definitely first day or two, I think, like that that's like kind of pushing it but like definitely first day day or two i think like that's fresh enough but like i think by week three like week two or three i think that's just um granted technically the rum will kill all the bacteria but that's what i was gonna say yeah i think it's pushing it would you do it like i will if you will let's just do shots we're gonna get to that part we're gonna get to that part. I'm going to record the process

of you two doing it. I'm going to be there as a data analyst of what's going on. This is for science. I will watch. I will be drinking champagne or something very clean looking because I'm a pussy.

Chloe likes vodka. You can drink vodka. Sam is aching. every inch of him is exhausted and blistered but rum and sadness is washing that pain away he wishes that they could have at least gotten to old town to get Eamon to the citadel get him to the citadel a new movie Eamon had almost seemed like he'd recover Zondo showed up and told him more of the dragons and his appetite had even returned no one ever looked for a girl it was a prince that was promised not a princess rigor

is not smoke it was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived,

and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were who thought ourselves so wise. The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female. Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years.

Daenerys is the one born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it. Egot. Bravo. Egot. Egot. Egot.

The coughing was really, it sold me. It sold me. I mean, you loved it so much last time that I was like, I was like, maybe I'll hear her laugh this time. Prophecies in general, but specifically for this, what do you guys think about the literalness of this prophecy? And I guess Amon does believe in it. do you think he's going crazy do you think like a younger amon would have believed in it do you think he's believed in it for like a huge

chunk of his life as he sort of describes like sounds like he's fully invested now but has he always been and what do you personally think about it and its application on the story these are big questions sorry not sorry i think i I'll start. We've talked about this a little bit already in some of the previous episodes in our discussions about Amon. And once more, I'm going to bring up our friend Matt, aka Joe Magician, and his essay on the relationship between Amon and Rhaegar and how they likely collaborated in regards to studying these prophecies previously. Yeah, I think that's really apparent here, right? Because you have Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were who thought ourselves so wise. And to me, that's him

saying, man, me and Rhaegar had it wrong this whole time and I think he feels a lot of guilt as we see from his conversations with Jon earlier on in the story and later on or middle you know before this and also now uh with Sam I think the guilt is so big I think that Summerhall at Rhaegar's birth I think that was also I think he feels responsible for for egg maybe tending to whatever that was now as far as the literalness of the prophecy and his belief in it i think as he gets closer to death he's able to let go of the institutions that are holding him back right from fully acting and believing in the prophecy and thinking that he has an understanding i think that like the night's watch for example and probably being a maester really hold him back in the way of actually like fully exploring all of it right his vows so many conflicting vows they make you swear and

swear i think that really has held him back and now it doesn't matter because he's fucking dying slash died too's hanging out. What are they going to do? I mean, the ship is the best way to be like, let's take a turn. Let's go that way. Honestly, he's in the prime location to do it. But what do you think, Zach? Like if I believe in the prophecy affecting the story or if I believe in how much they believe in it?

Any of the many questions that you just asked us, what are your answers to them? Any of the many questions that you just asked us, what are your answers to them? I didn't expect it to get turned on me. Oh, the turntables. The tables do turn. We're like the ship, turning. we're at least aware of it being important enough to have some kind of not mastery or control of but to be the people that are the first along and knowing about it it's kind of like looking for a margin ahead of your competition a way to sort of retain power for their lineage in a way like if

if things went wrong enough to or things went right enough based on what people that were wiggly that would say stuff that are prophetic or were things that are prophetic would come into being at least be informational enough someone like quayth jumping in and saying some really like convincing sounding poetry like all right there might be something to this like you've just disappeared and came here but with all that stuff like quayth herself like there's always there's always a little bit of like trickery with melisandre there's always a little bit of glamoring so it's like it's it's difficult for me to wrap my mind around really committing to it all the way and someone as intelligent as amen i feel like something must have happened i mean other

than the fact that they're living in a place where his lineage is specifically gifted with taming these absolutely wild creatures still they are creatures they are alive and there is a history and we do know where they came from so i feel like you using like literalness to follow that thread and to use that weight to justify whether or not you believe in something crazy or not i haven't got enough information about what they know about to know for sure if they are crazy or if they do have a reason to believe in this but at the same time there's there's real stuff that does happen in the story that i don't know it's like a really good magician doing a really good trick i just don't know how you could have possibly done that there's there's moments of that there's technology like the glass candles that maybe

will be described in another way i don't know i can i can mention other stuff like an easy one's the shadow baby like there are george is giving us in his made-up universe like clear tells of like all right it's not just unexplainable or explainable glamours but glamours like there's more than just that and so because of that i feel like this prophecy being something that could be potentially relevant to the history and the future of everyone that's alive in westeros it's possible and it could very well be centered around a single family. I mean, they are what we know as really the sole survivors of, I guess, the greatest, you would call it. Would you guys call Valyria the greatest empire

that Planetos had seen, even up until this point? At least the stuff we've heard about it. They dug so deep. So, I mean, it makes sense that they're from that. I'm indifferent. You know, it's there. It's good. They did crazy work. I mean, magnificent. They were I'm indifferent. It's there. It's good. They did crazy work.

Not your favorite. They were huge. They built the high road. The things that they did are architecturally alone and the size of their kingdom and the scale of their influence alone. It makes sense that if the sole survivors that predicted in some magical way a reason to get out of that place, the prophetic stuff could be centered around them but i guess amon himself like not really knowing for the longest time what this could mean and then seeing stuff like a bleeding star falling through the sky and relating it back to the the words that he knows of the prophecy it's hard for him not to believe in something like that so honestly honestly, I'm in the same boat as him.

It's like, well, there's this evidence that seems really real. So I'm just going to go with it. You're on the cinnamon wind. I'm on the cinnamon wind. And I hope to God no one puts me in a barrel of rum. Yeah, I think you brought up a great point with Quaithe, right? I didn't really consider it. But when you think about Aemon,

Aemon grew up around dragon dreams from his brothers, right? He grew up with Darren in his ear being like, I've got a headache. I have to go drink. I have to get rid of these dreams. He likely has had dragon dreams. We discussed last week, he might not just realize, you know, what they actually mean or what he's seeing necessarily. He can see all sorts of things in his mind. But how do you differentiate that from dragon dreams?

Some of the stuff he was describing having seemed like fevery dragon dreams and his other brothers all had them so they all have had this so you imagine denaris growing up with quaythe at her side what if she had actually she isn't we know that but what if quaythe you know she had someone like quaythe who sees things saying to her well i'm seeing this like what would you believe growing up then you know you would probably yeah she would be a different person than what she is now if she had grown up with that in her ear with viserys in her ear saying sister i dreamed this dragon dream well and i think that's the nature to an extent of like what we see with people who are royal and you have power right like regardless of whether it's prophecy or not you have people around them being like

yeah you're definitely the chosen one right like that happened to joffrey that happened to that that's what wise is whispering in the ears of sweet robin being like yeah the seat is strong it's you it's you kid and it's like i don't think that's who we met but But anyway. It's more of a broad theme, Liza, actually. Liza, it's about the other kid. He's not a kid anymore. He's like a man. It's about like every kid except your kid, actually, if you really want to talk about it. It's not a lot of kids, but not yours.

Definitely not him. I think what's different is that, you know, Makoro and Kwaith, right? When they say prophecies they're just like i don't know here's some words good luck good fucking luck whereas you have people melisandre yeah they're trying to act upon it they're like i'm trying to decipher what this means and act upon it as opposed to like prophecy just kind of it just kind of fucking happens and i think it's it's sad because like amen i think believed this when he was younger and he sees himself as a fool.

Perhaps he feels that he and Rhaegar led to the destruction of their house by chasing after these. And maybe after everything went to shit. I think for a long time Aemon stopped believing in all of these. And it's only suddenly now that he's like, oh my god. Four sheets to the wind. Let's fucking do it. Now's the time. 102. Four sheets to the wind let's fucking do it now's the time 102 not getting any younger better believe my shit now before i peace the fuck out of this world because as he says like he straight up is like you know maybe nothing is fucking waiting for me on the other side i whenever i get that old i'm gonna

go crazy i know i. I'm going to be believing in everything, telling people wild stuff. Yeah, I'm going to... Yeah. Interesting. I don't know. I'm indifferent on prophecy as far as the effect of it overall. I mean, I kind of think at the end of the day, Azor Ahai might

just be the friends that we made along the way, literally. It might be several people in the book i agree i don't know i think azor ahai is what you make it you know wow sure that's a t-shirt can i get that made before next week i think so i think you could call it like a banner made very quickly yeah i did just buy iron on like transfers for my spring break outfit amazing oh my god so amen did seem stronger than right like when he was talking about all this stuff it really seemed to give him hope and he's like i must go to her

and that he would if he could and he had even like walked up the cinnamon wind on his own two legs after the adbad passage like that was the effect it had on him so another question that i have here is what what he talks about i have i've got to get to her so what would have happened if he would have got to her like you know how uh marvin wants to get to danny too if that ever happens but like amen i mean everyone loves amen oh my god i feel like i would have cried danny would have cried i would have cried oh yeah yeah i think it would have been really awesome for them yeah even just to like be able to know they're not alone in the world would be like i don't even care about the advice he could impart at this point because how much of it could he really impart in one day before he dies but oh he would

have been better at giving advice than barriston let's first of all first off fucking trade him out in a heartbeat oh god barriston's all out here being like girls don't like nice boys and amon would have been like it was me i was the one who rejected them yeah amon would be out here like and here's everything you need to know about your dad yeah he would he got a little cray cray at the end there you know aries he got a little cray cray danny but uh you know would have given her an even keel like probably the truth about a lot of these people and what happened do you think she would have like believed him immediately when he's like i'm amen targaryen do you think she doesn't i need to bet you

right why would he lie? Well, also, Aemon was like, Sam, I don't know. Could you do something? And Sam fucking believed him and went and did this crazy thing and sent his best friend up to fail. But would she believe the content of his message is the follow-up question.

Yeah. Seriously? I mean, Barristan obviously approached his approach a little too delicately maybe you know soft potted in a little too soft there uh but she didn't really have a great acceptance of that either which i wouldn't either if i was being told like uh there are some truths about your family maybe you're not ready to hear kid ha ha i mean queen ha ha that i think she likes prophecies i think she'd like what amon's saying i think it could be a little more illustriously done yeah i think alluring i think she'd believe i think she'd believe amon i mean like you said first of all

the effect of having someone else who's actually supportive from her family it'd be huge him being like I mean I'm gonna admit we fucked up a few times and we still need one more head I was there for a lot of it a lot of bad things happened to our family some of them could have been me yeah they could fix those fuck ups together but now they can't

because he's dead always happens you think characters are going to meet up in stories and stuff and it's like are they dying not ready to reveal those cards just give me the Van Gogh moment from Doctor Who you cowards just go all the way

there let him see his museum and still go back and die well you know at least he got to see it and most importantly we there. Let him see his museum. And still go back and die. Well, you know, at least he got to see it. And most importantly, we got to see him see it. That's true. That's true. And he was amazing. That's actually like one of my totally fan cast.

I don't know whether a young poster or maybe or a John Conn. He's actually. Yeah, I was thinking John Conn. John Conn is the other one that I thought he'd be great at. But yeah. Give him some armor so sam gave his sword and scabbard to jondo to pay for his feathered cloak and the only things that were then left were the books from castle black and sam parts with them very glumly and told them these were supposed to be for the citadel and koromo is like yeah they're still gonna go to the citadel but but we're gonna charge them for it. Alright.

Just gonna reap the money. Good for them. Yeah. This feels like it could be a problem. Right? Like, for Sam getting into the Citadel, because it's kind of funny, at this exact moment we have Agen 6 who's rising to power, right?

And he is showing every single symbol and trapping of power he has the sword the crown right he has everything he has the people the kingsguard forming he has the support he's starting to get all this legitimacy behind him and then you have sam going to the citadel in nothing but his black clothing from the watch maester amon's dead doesn't matter because none of them know him as we learned this chapter he's like very very subtly just like oh yeah by the way i don't know any of these guys because all my friends at the citadel died because you know i'm 102 uh i've lived to an absurd age and sam is gonna show up with nothing to prove that besides maybe a letter right signed by some dead guy it's gonna be you know he's gonna have a rough time throughout the citadel just because of legitimacy which is interesting to

show that it is yet another little mini westerosi boys club in that you know it still matters who you are when you show up even though they say it doesn't as long as you dedicate yourself to the knowledge it still matters who you are. He may have a better chance by saying he's Sam Tarly, which is the thing he would not want to do. Yeah. Such good points. I like what you said about the trappings of power. Sometimes I didn't think about the itemization of that.

That's neat imagery, though. Plus, they don't even believe in anything, apparently. I think I wrote this down later so we can get to that unless i deleted it but they don't they don't believe in any of the stuff that amon's been writing about too so he's probably coming with like the worst letter he could bring basically because he's not even respected you know anymore he's been at the wall for they're from the night's watch exactly like nobody cares literally no one cares yeah he does such a boys club i feel like this like the only place i mean not the only place doran's pretty friendly but like the ship is not a boys club it's a perfect example like a mirror opposite of that it's like your merit is what

gets you what gets you the respect that you'd like to have like the quality of you as a person yeah who you are yeah great point yeah it's gonna be like the weird boarding school arc you know sexy boy school do you really think it's gonna go that long or is he gonna get yanked out of it i mean we need like three more books to have sam go to boarding school i don't think i don't know how long it's gonna go i know george probably didn't intend for it to go long he intended to do a time skip come out at the end that like seems graduating right but now he's like fuck now i gotta write all this yeah i mean logistically speaking you could get especially covering ground him with how many povs you have in t wow since he's at the citadel we end

with him at the citadel you could get him through a little time skip i mean you can skip right on ahead and then have it be one to two chapters of the Citadel and it's time for Euron. You know who did a time skip montage? Game of Thrones. Oh my god. They did. I'm talking about when Gendry ran from

the north to the I'm talking about when Sam showed a lot of shit. Yeah, the Citadel. Oh yeah, yeah. Guy Ritchie came in and guest directed that spot for sure. Yeah, that was fun. There's moments like that that are just, I love that. Did you guys like that?

The shit idol part? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. I mean. You're like, I wanted more shit. It's as good as season seven got, okay? I took what I could get. Yeah, it was one of the better parts of season seven. For sure.

Which is pretty shitty when you think about it. Oh, yeah. I think it was maybe like representative of the whole thing. Oh, my God. Like I said, the universe is too aligned today, guys. Oh, my gosh. So the Cinnamon Wind also tries to take Eamon's chain, but there is where sam put his foot down

explaining no we are not going to disrespect a maester of amon's stature and in the end all that sam now has left are his boots his black his small clothes and the broken horn that john had found at the fist that was a great sam by the way loved your sam too the fist. That was a great Sam, by the way. Loved your Sam too. So, oh my god. Squeal. I loved it.

My nose says squeal. You guys know why I'm squealing. The horn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It's also a horny chapter. It is a very horny chapter. Yeah, not at first, but then it gets there. Unless you're into dead old people feels like that horn could be important yeah i don't think it means anything

really no no i i mean it's just like one of those things that i'm trying to think of a relative uh like artifact from another story that's like that i mean uh people don't like harry potter these days but like you know how uh in the fifth book whenever they find the locket and uh sirius's house then it's like blah blah blah blah blah heavy locket that ends up being you know regulus's like whole thing that's the thing that makes creature and harry become like best friends which god want to strike some emotions in me like creature and harry become like best friends which god want to strike some emotions in me like creature and harry working together oh boy but it's something like that like an artifact is buried in the text somewhere and that's they were digging speaking of shit they were digging

out pieces of shit uh to uh use for fire fuel then they found and it was such an insignificant thing then and it's also an insignificant thing here but it's still here and it still gets a mention. And usually good authors don't mention anything. Like you can't dig something out of the universe and put it in your book, like from deep in your imagination to paint this broad, like beautiful artistic story and just put some random shit in there. So it's got to mean something. And if it's a misdirection, then we're going to get it like broken at least in a satisfying way or something right or we'll get disappointed in a satisfying way well that's part of like the great thing right that like it's here and it's mentioned that they didn't find it valuable that's the part of this passage that stood out the most

that they were like uh you can keep that weird broken horn so it shows back up it is moved from the wall to here and it's still there and it's invaluable quote unquote that feels a little suspect you're placing a lot of in value on it george i found it under the snow that's snow snow do you think that it's it's like a we're sort of being like double misdirected that it's like it actually is invaluable like that might be like it's being like so obvious maybe and like he's just trying to we're sort of being double misdirected that it actually is invaluable. Like, that might be... He's being so obvious, maybe. He's just trying to confuse us while we're waiting for these books to come out.

I think it's just been 20 years or more. It's been more than 20 years since these books came out. I can see it being important at the Citadel, right? I can see it coming into play somehow. I don't know. It's got no runes on it though i believe like the other ones yeah small insignificant oh god that's it uh yeah that's all it is so you guys don't think this is the horn like there's no cracking that's gonna oh you do

oh i don't know for the kraken i don't know something. It's important for something. It's gotta have some purpose. Even if it's just drinking ale. Oh my god. So, they couldn't stay on Braavos without thieving or begging. When they left, they had to leave. There was no other place that they could take Amon, and

it would have been a lot cheaper had Amon lived. The passage was stormy. I know, any cost. The passage had been really stormy at Pentos. He wanted to come to the deck again, but that was the last time Aemon left his bed and his wits started wandering.

And once they got into Tyrosh Harbor, he came to, telling Sam he must make the archmaesters understand. He says the men he knew at the Citadel have long been dead, and his letters probably read like ravings to the new ones. Sam promises to tell them that they would probably tell them better together, but Eamon says, no, it must be you. So do you think that the Citadel doesn't believe his letters do you think that they some of them know about the truth of phenomenons existing in the world and they're just ignoring it like they

probably know the archmaesters probably know about things like the glass candles not just marwen right and or at least they've heard about it so if they know something like that exists like surely there's a chance that these creatures that they sort of know did exist like big mammoths and stuff which i guess they probably believe in the mammoths but like ice spiders and whites and stuff do you think that they believe this any of them or they just think it's totally crazy i think some of them might believe but like not want to say anything about it if that makes sense because everyone else would think they're crazy too for speaking out and because like you mentioned some of these things george

is introducing they're like these little mysteries right and some of those mysteries maybe they feel that it's not for man to ever understand or that it's like you know maybe they're they feel a little bit more religious to it. I think Marwyn obviously, very obviously, believes in him. He's probably one of the few that's like, oh yeah, that Amon guy, totally right. Batshit, but totally true. Everything he wrote was true. Totally crazy though.

He's probably like, yeah, I don't know about him. He's nuts. Love that guy, but he's nuts. What a nut. I think he obviously believes in it. And I think there are probably a handful that echo his sentiment, but not out loud. I think it's also a pride thing. I think some of them want to believe.

As we saw from Qyburn, right? And we even saw from Crescent. Crescent said, I really wanted magic to be real. And I tried real hard. A lot of them go in there. They want magic to be real. But because they're not the ones to whom magic happens, they're the ones who discover it they refuse to believe that it exists and again it's very much a pride thing oh that's god you guys are so good together you guys like covered everything

wow and they when they don't believe the magic exists and they get like prideful about that because it didn't they couldn't get the candle lit or whatever they kind of ruin it for the rest of us yeah because like but that is such a real thing because what happens when magic rejects you well it usually turns people into fucking villains in stories right yeah right rejected them first yeah right just leave it alone though yeah you don't have to go after people that are trying to do it well they just want a buzzkill for the rest of us for us and marwin instead our rick and morty episodes it is literally rick and morty we we have some really great passages coming up and something that i thought was great is amen basically talks about his brother's dream the prophecy and says

melisandre's misread the signs that stannis has dragon blood in him this is a great quote right this one has a lot of people being able to theorize stannis is blood of the dragon his brothers had it real eggs daughter used to call him uncle maester when she was a little girl and he thinks that he allowed himself to hope and says we all deceive ourselves when we want to believe melisandre most of all i think the sword is wrong she has to know that light without heat and empty glamour he tells sam daenerys is their hope tell them that at the citadel make them listen and i feel like we would be the worst song of ice and fire fans in the world if i didn't quote uh this next passage death should hold no fear for a man as old as me

but it does isn't that silly it is always dark where i am so why should i fear the darkness yet i cannot help but wonder what will follow when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the father's golden hall, as the septons say? Will I talk with egg again, find Darren whole, happy, hear my sisters singing to their children? What if the horse lords have the truth of it? will i ride through the night sky forever on a stallion made of flame or must i return again to this vale of sorrow who can say truly who has been beyond the wall of death to see only the whites that we know what they're like we know john it's sad it's so sad i don't know the part about rielle's little girl my uncle mace oh yeah i'm in pain i was that's an assault that was a crime by george rr martin

against me a specific crime unnecessary i mean the whole thing was the whole thing was just you know wrongs wrongs done upon us but first of all george how dare you how dare you write oh my god never write again stop stop stop stop i take it right wild cards only oh my god we should just change to become a wildcards podcast. We have so much content. I know. Just like 100 books. 100 wildcards books.

That's so true. We're the wildcards now. We're the wildcards are. So, the version that we get of Eamon in this chapter and the previous one, I think, you know, when George is writing, it's a really great example of his writing,

his characterization and his storytelling and then how he's able to just really deepen these characters because Amon's very much portrayed a lot like Ned, right? Those wise guardians, those people who guide our young characters. And

we often associate these kinds of characters with this serenity and wisdom. That's right, they're the wise whatever's guides. But what's so great about this chapter in the last is it's really turned on its head when we see that Eamon, after a bazillion years of just being like, wow, that's real sad that all my family's dead. He finds hope. And ironically, I think it's that hope that kind of crushes his spirit a little because he cannot join them. And he finally finds something to live for all of these years later.

Again, it's his family, it's dragons. But I think it's especially like that idea. Again, it's that family and that blood and his biological family, not just the Night's Watch. And for once, you know, he's really tempted to come to his family's aid. We see him kind of express like it, they don't really linger upon it. And it is a little reminiscent of Darian, right? Darian's like, I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna desert. You think about it, that's kind of what Eamon's saying he's like I want to leave I want to desert the Night's Watch and being a maester to go to Daenerys and we have never heard him say any of this about his other family members he told Jon this like really moving thing of like Jon I don't know maybe you should stay in the Night's Watch here here's what I did, and never deserted, and now he's like, I want to do it. And that's part of why his dreams about Egg are suddenly resurfacing, he's sort of like, replacing his love for Egg and putting it all onto Danny, and it's the same dream that Egg died for, and all the rest of his family did in that terrible fire. And, you know, we think that someone, yeah, no i i for real though it's true it's true and then it led to rhaegar's thing well and then it's not lost on me the line where he's like no one knows no one's been beyond and come back from the veil no one can tell you what's there i'm afraid i don't want to go it's not lost on me that another targaryen is about to die right and be reborn john who will know that and all of this same guilt and all these emotions

are going to be put on john's shoulders eventually when he understands his parentage better right so he's going to have to be maybe a targaryen that stops some of that cycle yeah yeah and Michael. Yeah. Yeah. And. He doesn't have time to be afraid of death because he gets stabbed. Maybe he should have been a little more afraid, actually. He really should have been more afraid. A little bit. Yeah, you're right. I'd like maybe a little bit of the fear of any of the gods to get in that boy.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. Danny has some fear right now. John, no fear. No fear. The fear is good. A little humility is all we're asking for. Honestly, that is what Yokeboy said when he came on for that same

chapter a long time ago, saying the gift of fear, that book, and how Sam has a healthy amount of fear sometimes. Sometimes. It's really interesting about Eamon because we think that someone with Sam has a healthy amount of fear sometimes. Sometimes. Yeah. It's really interesting about Amon because we think that someone with his age, the way that his archetype goes, right,

comes with all of this wisdom and therefore should be at peace with death. He's 102 years old, and Amon even says the same. He's like, you'd think that I'd be pretty ready for this. And so I think it's a really wonderful and painful turn that suddenly like that entire image of like the wise mentor just shatters and we see that he's just as insecure as all the rest of us because you know as he said earlier in that first book to john he's like he's only human and the gods have fashioned us for love right then that's the great glory and great tragedy.

And he even describes the dragons for his house in the last chapter as being like, they're great, the glory and tragedy of his house or something with similar language. Wow, that's good. George did good with that. I like all of that. And the violence and the beauty of dragons and fire to sort of be representative of that same dynamic that you're describing with the glory, the tragedy of love.

That's so nice. Yeah, because the dragon's survival is his family thriving, right, in his mind. So conflating the two as one isn't hard for him. That is it. When the dragons were thriving, his family was thriving. That's true. Yeah.

Yeah. If that's the one thing he could do the one thing he could fix that would undo all of the burning that has happened to burning his family down right like yeah that's what he would do yeah i mean that was like eggs vision he's like we're gonna have dragons and we're gonna have peace in the realm i'm getting too old to cry about books every week no no no this is a lot this is getting a lot for me oh you're the youngest person here so i can't imagine how you two old ass bitches are feeling right now you're like the amen steel song of this podcast you know i've completely given up and surrendered. You guys, Sam is

also speechless, right? He can say nothing. He has given Eamon all the comfort he can, which is not very much. Gilly came in after this. I'm crying. Singing him a song, a nonsense song, Sam says, that she learned from some

of her kin at Craster's, but it made Eamon smile and he went to sleep and that had been one of his last good days because it reminds him of raelle probably and his sister's singing i would say right do you think we'll get the lyrics to the song like what if it's not a nonsense song what if it's like another prophecy or some shit oh whoa oh whoa the wolf version you know maybe I'm

he didn't give us the song you know we've had a lot of great musical moments for yeah I want to see at the talent show the con yeah a bear a bear amen would mutter in his sleep speaking of dreams but never naming the dreamer of a glass candle

that cannot light eggs that cannot hatch later he asks sam to read for him from the book from sept and barth and later he wakes weeping the dragon must have three heads but i am too old and frail to be one of them i I should be with her, showing her the way that my body has portrayed me. You did a great wail. That was a great wail at the beginning. Thanks. I was thinking of my dead cat.

My old dead cat. He was blind. What the fuck? His name was Link and I just, you know, that's the voice I used to use for him around the house listen Daniel Day-Lewis Jeremy Strong you need to sit down because I'm in town oh my god

Christoph Waltz get out of here so do you guys really think that I guess really the question to ask you is two parts do you think that he thinks the i guess really the question to ask you is two parts do you think that he thinks the dragon has three heads means that three targaryen people need to be working together to do whatever they need to do and also like do you guys what do you guys think the dragon has three

heads means just that part we don't do the whole prophecy but just that particular dynamic what is that i think i think he's just he's just saying sad shit um i don't know if he thinks there necessarily needs to be three heads because then he'd have to actually think hard about like the third one yeah and boy would he be pissed when he learns you are 1200 miles away from another Targaryen. Oh my god. I don't know if he thinks three Targaryens must be working together. I personally don't. I think there could be three heads, but the heads can all snap at one another, right?

They don't all have to be aligned. Yeah, the dragons dance, right? I mean, literally, we've seen the dragons dance in history when there's more than one uh i don't know i don't know how i feel on it it's another one of those prophecies i'm kind of like indifferent i i think the obvious answer is probably three targaryen minded people or people with connection to the dragons of sorts probably should come together and will unite a bunch of people to, you know, long night, yada, yada, yada. That's a, I think that's a good generous,

you know, reading of the text. And it makes sense. I don't know how else to read it. And that could just be my mind polluted from years of fan sites, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what my actual authentic take is on that that's

one thing i just don't think about that's the cool part about being here other people thought for me you know you got all these books left it's like we're gonna have the whole story one day everyone's gonna be talking about don't you remember how that was yes we are i mean i again i for one i for one in my reading, would start with the winds of winter. Do you think it's going to time jump? Like a big one? No. Do you want?

No. Okay. No, I think he scrapped that. You like drink three? I think he scrapped that shit. Yeah. He gave up on the time jump. You know, to save time writing.

Oh my god. It's so weird that he wails, the dragon must have three heads. It's like, alright, dude. What does that mean? You need to go hang out with her? What are you trying to say, dude? He wails a lot of things. You're right. I feel that, though. I do that, too, in the middle of the night. I did last night.

I thought all the computers were watching me. I've been watching a lot of uploads. They're watching you, for sure. Adam's just going to make them watch you harder. I i know i woke up in the middle of the night i was like oh god they know they know i'm on to them um it was actually really scary um anyways so speaking of knowing things amen here also mentions about the sphinx like or somewhere in this chapter sphinx being the riddle and not the riddler which is interesting and many have taken to mean aleris and it probably does mean aleris because you know it would have been way more of a twist if again the books come out like

sooner but we've had a long time and we discussed again like amon maybe having dragon dreams a little bit last episode but considering that i don't think that this has really ever come up elsewhere or in any of the other prophecies that we've heard of, I think that lends some credence to that idea. Because, like, where did he get that idea from if he didn't fucking dream it? Yeah. I mean, that to me says he's seeing things, right, of sorts. Seeing maybe their little visions of what's going on around him and then yeah what separates dragon dreams from just prophetic dreams i mean maybe he just has prophetic dreams maybe he has seen aleris it's dragon tales dreams yeah that's what dragon

i'm never gonna call them dragon dreams again. It's almost time for dragon tales. Dragon tales. You think it is definitely Alaris then? And that Alaris' name being so obviously a mirrored version of Sarella is not just a sort of misdirection? Yeah. Or is George's that being that obvious?

I'm always hoping for more. It would have been a lot less obvious if it was. Anyway. You're right. You're right. But still. Yeah.

I'll put it backwards. No one's ever going to figure that one out. Roger that. It's not like they've got, you know, the IRS or anything. I'm just saying this because taxes are around now. But like, no one's tracking the names. That's true. I mean, technically.

But there probably are, since this is like a school of learned people. Eliana, they probably have a roster that they're putting people in on, so Alera's had to get a whole ass identity change just to go to school. I can't wait to talk about that. People got fake IDs all the fucking time.

People do it all the time here. For the rum education. People do it all the time here. For the rum education. Oh my god. I need some rum after dealing with you. Me too. I just think it would be fun. You know, Eamon starts to forget Sam's name. He doesn't

have any cute mechanisms to remember it like we do for Alaris, Sorella. Eamon forgets Sam's name. Sometimes doesn't have any cute mechanisms to remember it like we do for Alaris, Sorella. Aemon forgets Sam's name. Sometimes he calls him after one of his brothers. After his death, Sam had kind of complained to Gilly

that Jon should have known better than send Aemon out like this. And Gilly kind of mouths back. She pushes back. She's like, Jon knew Melisandre would burn Aemon. He has King's blood dipshit val knew lord snow that's why they made me take dallas baby remember and not my own which good

for her for calling it out she says maester amen went to sleep and didn't wake up but if he stayed she would have burned him he will still burn sam thought miserably only now i have to do it the targaryens gave their fall into the flames kahiru mo would not allow a funeral pyre aboard the cinnamon wind so amon's corpse had been stuffed inside a cask of black belly rum to preserve it until the ship reached old town so i don't know what that is but i've been trying to find out i i long ago had a vision i was like we should have we should have a drink. Inspired by Maester Aemon's body

in the Cask of Rum. And Zach here is actually the person who gave me a feasible idea. But I do think next time we need to iterate upon this and there needs to be fire. But Zach, please tell us about you had a good idea and we executed it.

Sour Patch. You ever seen one? That's a good guy. It executed it. Sour Patch. You ever seen one? That's a little guy. It's edible. It's delicious. I think Mr. Amon would have also been rather delicious. And of course he's edible. So, you know,

you soak it for the longest amount of time in your liquid. Do you remember what ingredients we settled on? And we did drink it. We're only two ingredients. It was the Sour Patch getting the fucking dragon fruit rum or something like that.'s all you need i mean rum can be like a basic thing but once they've turned it into dragon fruit that's basically two or three ingredients right there so i guess get yourself a really good maybe if you could find a blackberry rum that would be the best way to do it and then pick out your favorite sour patch kid the one that get the red one for amen i agree the red

one's the best. Yeah. And you can't put more than one in there. I mean, I guess you could if you want to have a bunch of Amons. Like, this is the multiverse drink. You have, like, every Amon that was ever put in the barrel. And you could put some on the rim that didn't die, that actually made it to Daenerys. But, uh, ultimately, you're basically just drinking straight rum.

At the end of the day, maybe you could cut it with some seawater. Some ocean water from Sonic. Ooh, That's a good idea. Wait, I'm sorry. Sonic, like, what do you mean by Sonic? The drive-thru. That's where ocean water came. That's like where it came from. Not that you're thinking of the game. You're right, I was.

Because there's a new Sonic movie coming out. There is. So maybe you could put some ocean water in there. They also the uh powder packets of that on amazon oh yeah yeah i just got the cherry limeade oh from sonic okay can you link me that water my god yeah well yeah i'm putting seltzer i'll bring some to the con too you can have oh my god oh my god yes dude The cherry limeades from Sonic.

I used to, in high school and in college, I would drive past a Sonic on the way home to go to work, and I would take the route purposefully because I would always hit between 2 to 3 p.m. for happy hour, and I'd get the $3 cherry limeade. Oh yeah, they got happy hour, yeah. They have one at 2 to to three and then they have one i think in the morning or some crap too but eliana amazing like the cheapest giant drinks i

mean like and you can go light ice if you want you're talking just like you're inoculating inoculate yourself you gotta be safe on the food though because some of it goes right through yeah some of it's not yeah i've been sonic before sonic has the the i mean the last time i checked the uh most calorie dense fast food burger out of all the fast food chains sonic like double cheeseburger is like something about the way they make shit is so dank and good yeah doesn't feel good coming for life people say that kind of thing about taco bell too i don't have that issue i have trouble with that right on good for you we highly support taco good good yeah taco box you know i love taco bell and

i saw someone i know this is random but i saw someone make a uh birria you know like birria taco meat the way that's good a birria and chili rellenos crunch wrap at home. It's on YouTube. Look it up. I saw it. It was recommended in my algorithm. And oh, my God, it was gorgeous. Anyway, I'm hungry.

That sounds good. I don't like to eat before I record. And so I was just like, let me just not eat dinner before we record. Oh, no. Well, you're going to leave this. Oh, no, it's good. I'm going to drop kick that food in there when we're done it's gonna be even better don't worry nice gilly comes back in after her sour patch kid shot thanks to aliana and zach there you know with the dragon

fruit rum gilly comes in saying that the night before amon died he had held the babe gilly had been afraid she'd drop he would drop him but he rocked and hummed for him and the boy touched his face making him laugh and she strokes sam's hand and says we could name the baby maester and sam's like my god that's not a name woman but we can call him amen she says della brought him forth during battle as the sword sang all around her that should be his name amon battleborn amon steelsong sam thinks a name my lord father might like a warrior's name the boy was mancerator's son and craster's grandson after all he had none of sam's craven blood these are first of all good names second of all sam was just like you can't just name your kid khalisi that's what sam just said. And I do really love that Sam

thinks this line, right, of the boy being Mansreader's son and Craster's grandson. And he doesn't say Craster's son, right, because as we know, technically Gilly also had a child that was both Craster's grandson and son.

Because Sam here is thinking of the child as being as much gilly's son specifically as the boy is dallas and nance's because right gilly has cared for and raised this child and yeah i mean she was kind of forced to out of necessity slash circumstance slash john snow but also i mean Gilly is very loving and generous in that way and it's Sam really acknowledging that families are complex just like his own right the family that he chose that isn't just about blood and it really ties together with again Jon's story as well how Jon is both Rhaegar's son and son and Ned. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest overarching themes in the book of the family not being, you know,

a family isn't always your high lord, your high lady, and your gaggle of children. For some of these people, a family is the people they survive with. Yes. Koja, the captain's daughter, was watching the boy, watching little Aemon Steelsong. She captained the ship's daughter was watching the boy watching little amon steel song she captained the ship's archers as well uh they were attacked by pirates back in the stepstones and koja slated dozen of them while sam's own shafts were falling to the water

i have the quote saved somewhere but um you all can read it it's talking about koja's golden heart bow and my note here i'm just something i've talked about before on our podcast but i really like how george doesn't have to go as deep into the like high fantasy equipment and armament hierarchies like which items level up to which and who has the best stuff and how much money you have to have to have the right equipment but he does show that it does exist which i think is a flourish of high fantasy books and really like the thing i'm thinking about is like video games it's like how do you make the world universe the system that you're in make sense and he did that in this chapter in such a subtle way such a sexy way god darn it he's got he's got koja talking about how her bow out shoots sam she's been practicing for the longest time it's

like this i like when it's not something like that you smith but like literally it's like a legolas's longbow his u longbow from uh lord of the rings it's like something like that you Smith, but like literally it's like a Legolas's longbow, his you longbow from a Lord of the Rings. It's like, oh yeah, because he's, he takes bows seriously. He needs that distance. He needs that travel and he needs that velocity when he's taken out multiple

orcs at once with it. And I wrote here in the note, like we get a glimpse here that it still fills out our imagination about what is available in Westeros and like what the hierarchy is and like you can kind of imagine all this stuff but he doesn't come right at you and say it like Tolkien does with constantly mentioning things like Limbus and Mithril in every chapter yeah some of it I like how fleeting it is not just that but everything in passing of that kind of I like how fleeting it is, not just that,

but everything in passing of that kind of concealed microcosm of fantasy. You have a whole pirate battle in the Stepstones that he's just like, but glossing over that after the paragraph of it. I really love how he shoehorns that in, and it makes it feel a lot more blended into the world rather than being like, here's the specific thing about that golden heart bow, that golden heart bow. You said it better than me. No, honestly, I didn't think about it until you mentioned it because it's not, it's ingrained

and it feels whole. It doesn't feel as like, and that's how you know it's a fantasy novel, children. But you're smart enough to like, you can imagine it, right? Yeah. Because you're imagining Koja shooting the golden heart bow. You can already imagine the rest. You can see the glitter. ironwood's a cool wood why is it better oh it's in the north and it all makes sense you know it's like wait wait what a second like we haven't seen this bow but yet we're seeing a new person from an exotic place exactly exotic weapon and good at

bows yeah great at bows better than sam better than sam and so of course coach has got this great cool bow it's like this from this special tree and it shoots really far and like you said didn't have to go into it spend a bunch of time i think that's why like david and dan wanted to adapt this show uh or adapt this book for the show because it's like it's it's a high fantasy book but it's still just like dialogue and characters instead of going into that unnecessary geeky shit constantly. That is kind of the dialogue was probably not their strongest part. Yeah. Well, especially toward the end there.

You can say that again, buddy. You see that? We don't talk about the show. Never mind. I drink and I know things. And it's a golden heart bow and Kojima has a heart of gold. Of gold. Yeah.

It's very beautiful eliana good job thank you thank you i want a bow with the dragon heart string that's so that's my that's my rope on it anyway oh that sounds like it could probably not last very long it shoots a thousand miles though it doesn't last as long as a regular string. I mean, like, how would you preserve it? Wouldn't it be gooey? Dragon eye goop. Gooey? Oh, my God. Crazy about these pirates, right?

And it makes me wonder, we just got in Cat of the Canals, that Salador San's ship, a mate on the Green Galley, says that Salador San had just been in the stepstones and had killed their captain oh yep his captain was killed by lysine pirates who had tried to board them near the stepstones so it makes you wonder was this all going on at the same time were they quite literally ships passing in the night or could they have seen salad or son interesting interesting maybe I think it actually they could have been kind of involved with Salador San

there and they had no clue because they don't know him and we do we got so close I know him so well I do I do so you get to call him Sala yeah Sala exactly you can call me a Salador Stan.

A Salador Stan, if you want. Like a Salador after the Salador San. Never mind. I would get down on a Salador Salad. We would never treat Salador San the way that Davos did. Yeah. Davos, you should have respected your friend. Right.

He cut his own finger off can't expect that out the wilding prince has become a favorite of the summer islanders and Gilly had never trusted any men before beyond Craster's Keep but she does trust the summer islanders despite having never seen anyone

who looked quite like them and the men frighten her but the women don't sam realizes and he's like interestingly i also prefer being around women his sisters had always been kind and even if girls were cruel words were easier to shrug off than blows and he liked kojima more than kojima's father as well though maybe that's because kojima speaks the common tongue and kojima speaks the common tongue very well i also want to like quickly again um plug our friend noah's essay about sam and gender i think it really plays very well into what we're seeing in this paragraph next gilly uh whispers to sam that she also likes him also she likes the drink

and says it tastes like fire i just love so good i just love that part of her she's like i like this drink it tastes like fire i don't know it's so cute and it reminds me of like lyra and she's like i like it too right oh it's cute i actually also love like the other side of that she's like yo this drink fire good for you gillian oh that's so funny Oh, it's cute. I actually also love the other side of that. She's like, yo, this drink fire. Good for you, Gilly. Oh, that's so funny. Sam goes to the cask and fills their cups again.

A cup to Kojima, to Dalla's boy, to Gilly's babe, and of course, two cups for Aemon of House Targaryen. It's a lot of cups. They're getting bombed. I love it, though. It's so well described it's so sweet and it's kind of a big defining moment for their relationship right because you have to have a night of like drunken trauma and sex to bond you know like that that does happen often you don't have to some people probably have very healthy healthy relationships

and healthy lifestyles and maybe they don't drink and trauma bond to their partner but I just feel like that's like such a young relationship thing that you like get drunk with each other and you tell each other a bunch of secrets or inner things about how you feel. Tell us what happened with the spice from Chloe tell us what happened. Oh god no hell no we don't need to open that

cabinet up that is that cabinet graduated that cabinet left you know she went off to college. She quit college. Anyways, I just think that it's such a relationship thing, though. You have that first night where you get to know each other on a deeper level. And for them, they're having that with a lot of rum and things are feeling fuzzy and feeling drunk and light.

And they are drinking that trauma away tonight. My notes said they're drinking so much I feel drunk. Yeah. Yeah, they drink a lot. I mean, they're young. They're going to recover from that hangover eventually. And I don't think I could do what they are doing. Maybe not in a decade, you know?

Like, enjoy now, Sam and Gilly. Enjoy. They're going to labor the next morning, though. Yeah, it's not good for Sam the next morning. But it is good now, at least. It's great now, for sure. Because they're getting a little dizzy. And Sam helps Gilly down to the woman's quarters.

And some things are about to happen down there I feel inappropriate describing them it's pretty inappropriate it's very private and yet here we are right like they are dizzy Sam bangs his head on a lantern as they go in and then like

Gilly leans close to check on him and then kisses him and he kisses her back and he goes gross i said the words he thought and he says he can't but gilly says we can and soon they are touching each other every inch and and we have this line of and suddenly his cock was out jutting upward from his britches like a fat pink mast. It looked so silly standing there that he might have laughed. That's a mood. Oh, boy. Can you read that one more time?

And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his britches like a fat pink mast. It looked so silly standing there that he might have laughed. Wow, you turned on the sultry for that. Even better. My favorite part of it is sultry for that. Even better. My favorite part of it is soon they are touching each other every inch. Even sexually. Sure, yeah.

My note, I know we're going to go into a greater convo, but I just want to say he drank her milk. Don't forget that, guys. It tasted like rum. Sometimes I'm like, is this true? Anywho, it is. He's a boobs guy. He's a boobs guy. He's not an ass guy. Alright, we've established this before.

It's obvious. Yeah, he does talk a lot about boobs. Yeah. I mean, I guess Sam could have ate her ass, but he drank her milk instead. Yeah, I guess it's all perspective. What you're into. Ass? Tit? Yeah. Everyone's got an orifice. he's got a bias in these books and um i will say

like i i do want to you know kill the mood for a second acknowledge you know like george has like also beyond that this other thing he really likes to sort of like semi non-consensual thing for his men and other characters right he hasn't he hasn't happened with john and egred he hasn't here happened with like sam and gilly yeah he has it with like you know and that weird moment with like jamie and cersei and the sept and that one is like much much uh more problematic but anyways so so like this is gilly and sam not consenting right basically is what you're saying i don't know i i think that to an extent i mean i don't think so i think that they're both very much so she sits down on him though for god's sake and he said no exactly i

think sam sam does like we can tell because we're in his POV. He wants it. I'm just saying that George has this thing. Sure, yeah, you're right. Throughout his series. Remember when they were going down? She could, like, not even stand, basically. She's like, where are we? That was the first thing I thought.

I was like, okay. Yeah. I don't know if you think that's worth addressing or not. I don't know. I do think that, like, there's part of it that is kind of like you know trying to pull back but also I think it's pretty clear that he says you know we can't you know alluding to a yeah I can't I think that's pretty apparent I don't think that this is a problematic scene in any way shape or form I think it's actually one of the more consensual and loving scenes after

however I do think that we'll get into here is his guilt. He has a lot of guilt over it because, and it's honestly, it's not even because of the Night's Watch in the end, right? It's really because of his father. That's really where the guilt is coming from through all of this. He's saying, I swore a vow. I swore a vow. But what happens when you break that vow?

Who is it that's ashamed at you for breaking that vow? No one from the wall is here. No one knows you did it. Obviously, that doesn't matter to him, because he knows. But who's going to get mad at him? Aemon? No.

Aemon's dead. And Aemon also would have said, you should just probably do it at this point, man, because we all die. I die any moment now. Wow. You completely. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I agree. This one is much more consensual i just think like he does that he has the little finger scene like you know i think that that one's definitely yeah that one's like definitely much more like assault but this one much more consensual sam's like about to laugh at his penis. So yeah, he's like drinking her milk. I've laughed at it a lot. Oh my God. It's, it is drinking her milk.

Very lively description, right? Of the, the old trout trouser. You notice how George makes all of his love scenes just have a little bit of like, yes, I want to say like rustic or campiness to it.

It's like just to make it real or special. It's kind of like tyrian doing the acrobatic flips and shit it's like what do you what's the flavor you're trying to do here like drinking the milk breast milk is the flavor yeah you're right the flavor is actually breast milk jesus but i guess it's the way he makes it specific anyway it's kind of it's kind of it's kind of weird though right i'm not trying to be like vanilla. I'm down for whatever. I mean, that's realistic.

Specifically talking about it like that. Everyone's got kinks. This is Sam's. I mean, George's. Fuck. I think the camp, what you're saying, the camp is realistic, right? Like sex is like, sex is often like kind of weird and gross. Oh, yeah.

Very campy, you know, like ridiculous shit happens all the time. and gross and very campy. Ridiculous shit happens all the time. Juices everywhere and sometimes you're like, fuck, wrong hole or there's weird shit. We're all queefing in the middle. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of air that goes between

some of the orifices. Some squelching noises happen. Weird body functions. I used to really shit on this scene a lot. I used to really shit on this scene a lot i used to really shit on this scene and like be like fat pink mask but i actually kind of hate that now i kind of think it's like a really real scene it's very raw it's very authentic uh i know my first time was a mess you know personally so i i sorry, Sam. That's just how it fucking goes.

Yeah. And the mask, he is on a ship. Yeah. Oh, that's such a great point. Yeah, there's a lot of that recursivity. And I think it's fun to make fun of the scene in that it's a funny phrase, but that's the point. That's how it captures it.

And also, by talking about fat pink mask, I just feel closer to everyone else in the fandom. It just brings the fat pink mask for I just feel closer to everyone else in the fandom. It just brings... The fat pink masks were the friends we made along the way. Oh, yeah. The fat pink masks we've made along... Anyways. Hmm. Interesting.

Yeah. I don't know. Talking about coins and nipples is like, come on, man. Say it cooler. I don't know something something about it i don't know i kind of love it always sounds very george rr martin though like he was talking about tyrian's like as hard as an iron rod or whatever his bulbous mushroom veined whatever when he's coming out of the crate or whatever he's just like drunk and he's like he's throwing up all over himself.

But his cock is still hard as an iron bar is what it says. Like, Jesus, man. You could definitely pick these out of a lineup as George R. Martin, like genitalia description. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, what is it with them? But I get it.

Like, he's writing a certain kind of high fantasy book. It's very ribald. And again, you could pick it out of a lineup. I mean, you're definitely not going to blame that scene on anyone else. Mm. I like it too, though. Yeah.

So Kelly whispers to Sam that she's his wife now. And he thinks, no, no, I said the words. But outside he goes, yes. And afterward, they sleep together. Then they're too drunk to move afterwards and there are others coming in and out of the corners and he hears all of the other people kissing and laughing and mating and he thinks to himself summer islanders that's how they mourn they answer death with life and so as you were talking about earlier both of you after the sex

like the guilt that sam feels it's pretty drastic he thinks of slipping away and jumping into the sea i'm like chill out arizo cart and then gilly's he's like gilly will find a better man than me not a big fat coward i can't add anything to this because chloe nailed it so hard before. The person I thought he was disappointed, or at least I suspected in some way, was what would John think about this? And what I wrote down on my notes is that I think that John wouldn't care. You know, John just wouldn't care.

I think that he's Lord Tremander, and that carries absolutely no weight in their personal private relationship with each other and the way they talk about this stuff. If anything, John would be like, good, i'm glad that that happened great for you and i so though i started to see i see a lot of this reflecting that sam's doing um i understand him struggling when they're north of the wall and there's actual danger and supernatural elements swirling around you there's a lot there and, you know, trying to provide or at least protect

or be something that could help shield Gilly away from dying. I understand those misgivings for sure, but they're relatively safe right now, and they just had sex, and it was fun. And other people had sex in the room with you. The vibe's pretty high. I know Mr. Ammons died, but he was 102, and that's not even what you're stressed out about right now and so i just feel

like sam constantly pouring over these thoughts and uh you know trying to make bad stuff happen when there's no reason to make bad stuff happen like it's just kind of masturbatory it's just kind of like poor me poor me he's just kind of mopey for no reason. And he's really giving in to these negative feelings that just really have no place. And I did not think about his dad in that scenario. But even then, like, just, I don't know. People don't think about their dads when they're having sex, but yeah. But Sam probably did. That's true.

Big mood killer. I was going to say, I think about your dad when I'm having sex, but I don't know your dad. You better not. You better take him out of there. Send me a picture. I'll put'm having sex, but I don't know your dad. You better not. You better take him out of there. Send me a picture. I'll put up one. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

I wonder if John, you know, maybe John would have been like, what do you mean? You didn't do enough foreplay. You got to go down on her. John's like, Sam, my only disappointment is that you weren't better prepared to please her. First of all. Sam, you were the heir of Horn Hill. Let me teach you about about the lord's kiss so we're not being serious this part of the podcast we're all just once eliana's had two drinks we're just telling jokes that's what it is oh that's literally most of the podcast yeah the whole podcast yeah that starts at the beginning even

on one nights i'm sober where have you been zach were you all coming at me with with john like making jokes about his performance i'm like wow i should been zach were you all coming at me with with john like making jokes about his performance i'm like wow i should have came in with that energy i thought you were good uh i don't know though you just said something really great you said a great phrase that his self-loathing is masturbatory but i i love that because it's true and it's so funny that he is so obsessed with this thought of john in some aspects as that stand in his mind of being disappointed in him. Because this is the same post sex guilt we've already seen happen with John and Egret. This is literally John had countless thoughts of what what did my lord father do when he dishonored that woman in her bed?

Ha ha. Which one? You know, et cetera, et cetera. And you have this big, great chapter of dreaming where he has the dream of himself in the hot pools under the weirwood with his father's face and egrets with him. She's laughing at him, shutting her skins till she's naked as her name day, trying to kiss him. But he couldn't, not with his father watching.

He was the blood of winterfell a man of the night's watch i will not father a bastard he told her i will not i will not you know nothing john snow she whispered her skin dissolving in the hot water the flesh beneath sloughing off her bones until only skull and skeleton remained in the pool bubbled thick and red it's not a dream but that's literally what sam is imagining here right that he wants to throw himself in the sea so that gilly can have a better life without him now that he's done this terrible wonderful thing sex it's the same guilt they're feeling very similar guilt for different reasons but similar reasons just post not regret that's

all post not regret clarity yeah there you go. The opposite of post-nut clarity. More specifically, the regret. Yeah. Yeah, and his clarity, he's like, wait a second. This is, she's just had a kid with her dad. Yeah. I mean, who's, like, sexual dad trauma is worse here, really? Is Sam?

Right. No, it's Gilly's. It's Gilly's. Yeah, definitely Gilly, gilly and if she can get over herself and her trauma to seduce your bitch ass sam right gilly high key rules yeah high key general but like high key is is surfing like like top top charts like she just should have done better in song of madness you know what i'm saying i mean honestly the whole series like gilly's a hero like that's not that's yeah that's very real highest of keys it tastes like fire it tastes like fire pure fire yeah that might be the cutest shit i've ever heard i know

that bitch so sam awakens in his own hammock with a zondo bellowing to wake and get back to work and worse than the after sex guilt is the hangover mood sam wants to hurl but all he can do is struggle back into his blacks which now smell like a lot of different things right they also smell like gilly though so he's pretty happy to wear them um he does wish that he had clean dry socks though and he's growing a fungus between his toes just talking about salt water it's just gross shit gross i believe it yeah like at least he also cleans my dog you know when we go to the beach and he jumps in the water i'm like well you don't need a bath for three months belly on his. I feel bad for Sam not being able to vomit too. Sometimes you feel better.

He can't? Oh, yeah. When you're hungover, sometimes you feel better after you vomit. That's just my opinion. Oh, every time, right? Every time. Yeah. Unless you ate a bunch of food and it hurts coming up.

Otherwise, get that out of here. Oh, the chunks. Oh, God. The chunks. It feels like your body's ripping in half. Oh, my God. Or like when you've puked a couple times and now you're dry heaving and your throat is sore and raw that's that's

your head it's like you're pushing your headache out of your head from like the way you're driving you know when they approach the cinnamon wind summer islanders had proposed they pay their way in work and sam had protested this he's like well three out of our four party can't work and zondo's like yeah you're gonna work for all four of them dipshit uh sam doesn't really feel like he's even doing enough work of one let alone four but he does try scrubbing decks hauling anchors coiling ropes hunting rats sewing sails patching leaks boning fish chopping wood boning gilly wait uh gilly tried as well and she was actually better at rigging than he was although the sea still made her sick from time to time so they almost made one whole person is what sam is telling us he

kind of wonders what the fuck he's gonna do about gilly and the whole breaking his vows thing he tries to busy himself with work and avoid staring at the cask of amon rum but he also has to avoid gilly so he's running out of places to look she comes upstairs he goes below she goes forward he turns back she smiles at him he turns away he feels real shitty thinking i've always been craven but never an oath breaker he wishes he could ask for advice from amonon, Jon, Pip, Gren, but all he has is Zondo, and Zondo would probably just tell him to fuck her again.

Yeah, we have this line of fuck had been the first word of the common tongue that Zondo had learned, and he was very fond of it. Mood. It's too good. That's great. Glad that the Summer Islanders are this it's just a boat of cool people like obviously cool people sometimes you get cool people in a song by some

fire like they're scattered around you're like wow that was a cool thing and this person's really nice but it's like this is a ship full of cool people it's like a work party barge right it's not a bad thing to like it's not a bad crew to be a part of. It's not a bad life. Yeah. I mean, this is their life, you know? They're having a pretty good time. Yeah. They're just, like, here being like, Sam, give us your things. Alright. People make those people come into their vibe and they're still having a good time.

They got someone dying and still having a good time. Avoiding pirates. Yeah, they actually did. I mean, yeah. The bow, like, scared them off. They're they're like oh we don't mess with them we're a couple of us are gonna get pegged with an arrow we're getting pegged yeah i was like don't say pegged on this podcast at this point it's actually called dark sister if you ask uh our friend roan yep yep, yep. Finally, Zondo seizes Sam near the

end of his shift and dumps him at Koja Moe's feet. Koja points at a haze on the horizon, telling him Alright, Sam. You can either swim to Dorne, or you can walk to Old Town, or you can stop being a baby and go talk to Gilly. I love this so much. i love like we said earlier that

you know they've been on there sam's been the worker and yet gilly's the queen of the ship they love gilly they don't give a fuck about sam and his lord's in this of westeros and not to be like anti-feminist perspective here but i'm sure they see women from westeros often that come through that are not like gilly right gilly's very different gilly is willing to work her way willing to try to be helpful even when she's not expected to be uh and she's quite obviously seen some shit and they can tell that and they can tell that she's different just like they're different right and they really respect her and i love that absolutely yeah i mean technically gilly's not

less rosy right she's free folk and and as you said right i mean gilly's pretty awesome she's she's just making her way and they see her she's a survivor yeah she's not gonna stop she's gonna work harder oh my god what were you not were we not singing? What? I'll do the what's. I'm better than that. I'm not going to write to you on the internet. I'm better than that. All right. Only the reels go to the verse like that.

Oh my god. Because you know I'm better than that. Gilly is a survivor. She survived through multiple environments. Like right now, she's dealing with the opposite of what she's used to. She's like, man, it's hot here. She's thriving. Yeah yeah she is thriving i mean she just slammed sam down on the on the bed and told him what to do she's like all right finally now she has the whole ship ready to beat him up i know that's so great like you got your whole crew with you yeah i love that it's

good for sam it's not bad for sam he's's being a little baby. He is. He is. Just like, come on. Because then he tries to protest, right? And Koja cuts him off. She's like, Oh, you Westerosi make a shame of loving. There is no shame in loving. If your septons say there is, your seven gods must be

demons. In the Isles, we know better. Our gods gave us legs to run with, noses to smell with hands to touch and feel what mad cruel god would give a man eyes and tell him he must forever keep them shut and never look at all the beauty in the world only a monster god a demon of the darkness i like that monster god a demon of the darkness sounds like on like ocarina of time that would be under a boss's name. It's true.

Demon of the darkness. Yeah, monster god, a demon of the darkness. They've got such great short descriptions. I mean, this is such an awesome perspective that I wish everyone in my life and all the people that I don't know would have. Or at least could incorporate. Maybe they've heard about it maybe they've uh watched it in like a how-to video and they've been like oh that seems like a pretty good perspective but i mean like really internalizing the the points of view and the

truths of and of this reality that we're all seemingly awake in the dreamer the dreamer i'm not sure but for now this is we're having this conversation and it seems real to me like really understand what leads to these truths being real and like embody them and live them and the the world that we're living in could be like this ship i think at least to some degree i know that when there's this amount of people there's always going to be pirates coming but as long as you got a good bow and you're really mindful about how to use it you pick the right materials like maybe you can make them not come and attack you and all that stuff and when people get really old they die and you get sad and you celebrate it and maybe you make some more life you know like maybe we can keep things going and also uh where they're from has really good weather like why would you want to cover up all your nice sexy bodies like that's why they also like to have sex as much it's like they're just like oh wait a

second look at that over there and the conversation begins i really love too that i mean this is what the overarching theme of the whole story you have the metaphor of the others buried right here right a monster god a demon of the darkness that's what want. They want to stamp out life and to bring people back as mindless, you know, whites that are only connected to them, only allowed to love this way or only allowed to do these things, right? A slave to the others, which is, I mean, then you have the Citadel and the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard as these institutions that also dictate when somebody is allowed to love and how they're allowed to love and when they're allowed to love and here you have them saying you know only a monster god a demon of darkness would put an end to that would say you can't love another or that

you aren't allowed to share that part of yourself because you have given that part of yourself legally contractually to us right like how i can't just have sex with my husband all day because i have to work you know like it's bullshit is what institutionalized this is oppression from capitalism you're very pressed um no i i was just being humorous for a metaphor but but that is kind of the whole feeling, right? Like, here Sam is, hundreds of miles away from the cold wall and the White Walkers, falling in love for the first time and learning that it's all a fucking lie, and you can just love someone.

It's very easy. It's scary, but it's very easy, and you can do it, Sam Tarly. scary but it's very easy and you can do it sam tarley it reminds me again a lot of what's going on in his dark materials right this idea of what kind of monster god would tell you would keep you from seeing would keep you from experiencing life and all of your senses so yeah i guess religion commonly likes to juxtapose the availability of things with some kind of a discipline that is, I mean, there's so many different ways why the discipline is good. There's so many different reasons, like either it's literal or it's figurative, but ultimately it's like, I think boils down to some kind of like greater love outside of yourself which sometimes it pleases gods and sometimes it's just good for you yeah and sometimes those great loves outside yourself are more important right like loving others yeah as we see for sam it allows him to overcome many obstacles in his chapters by putting others first over his own well-being

over his apparent self-loathing right by putting gilly first by putting john first by putting others first over his own well-being over his apparent self-loathing right by putting gilly first by putting john first by putting amen first he is able to do great things and it's like ned says right when is a man able to be brave well when he's scared he's not putting those others first exactly those go last those go last uh it's interesting that you're talking about it with uh sam you know experiencing life and being encouraged to feel love right and then we have this idea of what cruel god would give a man eyes and tell him he must forever keep them shut and we have this in contrast to amen being told you cannot love anyone you cannot even love your family you cannot go to your family his whole life and sam being like told i don't know what if you just did it all yeah getting that wool pulled over

your eyes now instead of at 102 is probably a pretty big deal, huh? Yeah. I think so. Off your eyes. Or off, I mean, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, yeah, I guess that's the gift of being a future generation. You learn from the mistakes of the people before you. So maybe we'll see a more progressive Night's Watch when this is all said and done.

I hope so. Because, I mean, that's the other part of that, right? The other monster god, demon of the darkness, who would do this would be Randall Tarly. Think of someone so militant, so disciplined, so void of love. True, true, true. Yeah. Big true, friend.

It's so funny how someone like Randall would just be like a mad dude if he didn't have swords that he could command. And he doesn't even have the most swords. He just has enough that it's like, I could cause you some trouble. Yeah. So people are like intimidated by him. it's like he's just some guy he is just some guy yeah kojima could shoot him with a with an arrow i legitimately believe so i think kojima could kick his ass oh for sure he's just some guy maybe not in like a boxing match but you know people that can fight well it's like that he's intimidating exactly he's intimidating because he has swords that he can command it's just like come on dude and he's willing to be

an asshole but he's like not that scary to me i don't know coach is also supposed to yeah that's well yeah an asshole that we like for good yeah yeah like uh sam comes back he's like well i can't just go to gilly i took a vow and kojimo's like gilly's no child she knows why you wear the black and why you're going to the citadel and she knows that she can't keep you i love this she says she wants you for a little while is all she lost her father and her husband her mother and her sisters her home her world all she has is you and the babe so you go to her or swim wow your your note is so good read that all i wrote is i think this is nice it is nice though it's really nice it's just have my hands over my heart like oh i mean it's the best chapter honestly in a lot of ways in this book that encapsulates all of the story, right?

What is honor compared to a woman's love? What's duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms or the memory of a brother's smile? Winded words are only human. The gods have fashioned us for love. That's our great glory and our great tragedy. It's etched in every moment in this entire chapter. Absolutely. glory and our great tragedy it's etched in every moment in this entire chapter absolutely and yes zach would like me to point out also what the fuck i love fat pink mass now like that's what that symbolizes yo like fat pink mass symbolizes all of that so next time eliana when you want to

laugh about the fat pink mast i hope you think about this too. Yeah, because we love it now. The fat pink masts are the friends you made along the way. It's the fat pink masts you made. We're each other's fat pink masts now. You're my... This is getting heated. So Sam knows he cannot swim that far. All right. I almost wondered, what do you...

He was like, I could do it. I could do it. I know, right it how far are you gonna take this like like lopiness right he's like i can't do it yeah so he's like i'll just go to gilly he goes to gilly oh my god imagine imagine i know so i've been trying to make sense of this because usually like authors and storytellers and artists in general are like encapsulating some greater truth about the universe and the flourish of where their pen goes. And I'm trying to understand like the spatial truth and like also like what going back to Gilly, like is that some kind of a resignation step down? Is it would have been would have been better if he would have like tried to be able to swim that far if he had the strength or at least the courage to push himself to go that far like what his life would have been like all those kinds of things like i'm trying to figure out what george is trying to say because that shoreline was so artistic and picturesque it was like uh it was difficult for him like he couldn't really make

it out you know and that's that's a that's a common motif for things i don't remember everything but like when i have a dream for example and i'm trying to figure out who the person is like sometimes like there's too much light on their face or something like my brain hasn't fully materialized the whole thing and that's kind of what the shoreline was maybe it was George not fully materializing his idea and it was just

sounded cool I don't know either way I just wanted to know what the heck that was do you guys have any ideas I just have shoreline from Broken Social scene playing in my head now. It's in my head, too. It's totally. That's all I'm hearing. I'm so glad I'm not alone.

We're married. Yeah, I'm just jamming. Yeah. I was jamming. I was jamming. Thank you, Aliana. But that's. I think you honestly had it, though.

The fact that he can't quite see it, he can't quite make it out, that's the big part of it. He doesn't know what the future... I think that's the point. He doesn't know what the future is. There's no sure way for him to get to that shore. He looks at it. He can't just swim to that shore.

It's awful far away and hazy, and he can't quite see where it actually is and the dangers that await him, and that's the point of life you can't see that you don't get to see where you're going for life you don't just get to look across the shoreline and know the dangers that are going to be laid on your path but you know what it sure as hell makes it a lot easier doing it from a boat with a person that loves you instead of swimming on your own, doesn't it? You... Is this therapy? You and all earlier likened this to

John's situation right across the wall. It's a little like that, right? John, granted, had a slightly more traumatic moment in which he had to kill his mentor in that time, whereas Sam just more failed his mentor. But he was 102 just more failed his mentor but he was 102 like like honestly it was amazing he made it to that point corinne halfhand probably had a lot

of years ahead of him but uh you know sam john had to he was only 89 yeah so um yeah but john's like i can't i can't escape from the free folk right now i can't make it to the wall and so he's like, I can't escape from the free folk right now. I can't make it to the wall. And so he's like, I guess I gotta go talk to Ygritte and everyone else and make friends. And that's kind of what Sam's doing here. He's like, well, I can't do that. So gotta go actually deal with people. Which is

sometimes harder, honestly. That's why Ari's Oakheart, right? He was like, I would rather die. I would rather die i would rather die than confront the fact that i had sex i mean that is a big part of it that is literally what happened in the same book i mean even kind of that little cute taste of xenophobia that George peppered around this, right? That's very Ares O'Cart as well in Dorne.

It's a Reach thing. They're both from the Reach. Yeah, it's a Reach thing. Both Ares and Sam are from the Reach, yeah. Exactly. Well, we close with this little back and forth between Gilly and Sam. What we did, if I could take the wife,

I would sooner have you than any princess or highborn maiden. I can't do it. But I can't. I'm still a crow. I said the words, Gilly. I went with John into the woods and said the words before a heart tree. The trees watch over us, Gilly whispered, brushing the tears from his cheeks.

In the forest, they see all, but there are no trees here. Only water, Sam. Only water. Anyway. My note here is just as mysterious as the quote before

it. I'm like, okay, good to know. There are no trees here, but crows can fly. You should tell Sam there's only water because she's real wet right now. Oh my god. Jesus. End of the episode vibes.

Oh my god. It's like herding cats. I do think it's interesting that Gilly here turns the water, though, into a strength of this freedom. That it's It is interesting that Gilly here Turns the water though into like a strength Of this freedom like that it's freeing her Because earlier Sam has been like Every time Gilly looks at the water she looks real afraid

And like she's gonna cry But she likes it in this point she uses it As the strength and the point to make him feel better She's like it's about the motion And the ocean Sam She's like that's what we were missing last night Not the size or the motion in the ocean, Sam. Oh my gosh. That's what we were missing last night. Not the size or the thickness of the mast. Well, we didn't really know the size, right?

That's not important. Pink mast. Yeah. We know the thickness. It's like a Coke can. Sam's got a little Sprite can in there. Yeah, yeah, he does. There's actually, I really like the emphasis on the

water and the trees obviously uh her being free folk that is pretty apparent to her that she understands the trees are watching their eyes all among them in the north and that she knows that there's only water there's no trees to watch them now yes crows can fly and they are actually going right into a crow zone, if you will. A crow zone? Crow zone. Fro zone? Oh, my God. Fro zone? There's a hole in the crow zone there.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Someone call Euron. I do have like two tangentially related thoughts about this. I don't know. Zach, I don't know if you've actually seen this episode. I don't know. You don't watch Doctor Who, do you?

Do you, Zach? Not the new stuff. I saw like the first two seasons of Amy Pond stuff and then I saw their resolution. I watch all the old stuff. Okay, well this is from series six. There's an episode. Eliana, you're never going to get there, so I don't care. Probably not. I'm sorry. She's still on the

Deadlock episode, like trying to get through it, like the traffic. The gridlock? No. She's not even close to gridlock. she's at episode three of series one anyways oh you see the face of beau at least well there you go ah so there's a doctor who episode in series six that this reminds me of long story short and neither of you are going to understand it so this is for me and like the 80 people listening that have seen this episode. But there's a translation where someone's name gets changed because there's no pond

in the forest, only rivers. Because those people in that land yes, only know they only know rivers. They don't have ponds there, just geographically speaking. So the translation of this name gets changed. And the whole point is that like it's a loophole in the name because all of a sudden they figure out a big plot point and it's also

an overarching theme that the TARDIS translates things right as they travel through space so like if you just go to Italy you're not going to be out of place whatever you're saying someone will understand you because of the chameleon circuit inside of the TARDIS listen it's a whole thing it's a great series uh That said, it's very like something lost, that little lost in translation moment. This is kind of a translation moment because it's a loophole, right? That Gilly is saying the trees watch over us, but here they don't see us, Sam. It's okay. We can be together here in this little moment on this boat, on the water. We get to be together and no one knows.

And you're not breaking your vows, you know, in this moment, in this loophole. And it almost reminds me of this line from Dune of what Chani says to Paul that she says, I see us giving love to each other in a time of quiet between storms. It's what we were meant to do. And that is what this is, right, for Sam and Gilly, that this moment, like Koja said, she knows she can't keep you. She knows that you have a great destiny to go be a great man at the Citadel and figure out all this shit so you can come back to the wall and keep people safe and help people, Sam. She knows all that. She knows your destiny.

She just wants you just for a little while, right? Just to make sweet, beautiful memories just for a little while. As long as she can keep you. And I think that is so beautiful. What the fuck, I love fat pink mast. Yeah, I mean, like you said, right? It's beautiful. I like that idea of she wants you for a little while. And as you said, she cannot keep you.

And none of us can keep each other, right? We can't own each other. And that's... We all just have each other for a little while. You could have memories, you know? Like smoke drifting through your hand, but they're still there. Are you crying? No.

Fucking hate me swath so you're trying to catch smoke with your bare hands bare hands get the bear out of here um yeah that was a it's a beautiful chapter you guys i really love this chapter i don't think we could have done it without zach we needed uh this great tension to keep us from divorcing one another you know i'm so so honored that you guys asked me to come on and for such a amazing chapter like you said like i mean quantifies all the stuff that we like about this book and really the whole series in such a beautiful way and juxtaposes maester amen with people that don't even speak the language with Gilly who's now talking and doing more than she normally does to like making things

happen very directly and Sam just you know being Sam Sam being classic Sam he wants to be just Sam and everyone's calling him all these names he's like I want to be just Sam that's cool though yeah let him be Sam let's not be mean to him either.

He's got a fat pink mask after all. Oh my god. Jesus Christ. This was really fun though. You guys are really good at this. It's so fun to talk to you guys about these books. Aw, stop. Obviously you deeply love this stuff.

I like having just really genuine real conversations with people and it's hard to do outside of a podcast even with people that you love it's just like there's so many distractions and things happening but like we don't have our phones we're not talking to anybody else in the room it's just the three of us and uh i think you can get so much go so far into stuff and uh it's cool to like use a safe thing like these books as like a a thing to like allow it's like a little tool that allows us to get into everything like everything in this life and in this universe but there's something like a language that we can all speak you know but

ultimately like we do speak like the same language and it's the language of love everybody but this is our common tongue the the book to the cinnamon wind we are all traveling together on maybe the real song of ice and mass didn't fight uh yeah something along those lines no it's true it's our common tongue we all speak it together and i love that i love being able to talk about this series with you guys. I like you too. A little bit. Don't tell anyone. Oh my god. Yes.

Thank you. I mean, like, you and I have, in a way, again, regarding that drink, you and I have discussed this chapter before. Zach. So I'm glad we got to reconnect over this. We've discussed quite a few challenges together and it was a goo time. It was a goo time.

It was a really goo time. I hope we get to hang out again soon. For real. Hopefully soon though. For sure. I know I'm going to see Chloe soon but I'd like to see everybody at the same time. I already saw your bitch ass. Right. You were just at my house. Yeah I just saw your bitch ass. Zach it was a pleasure

having you on thank you again please tell everyone where they can find game of owns on the internet once more gameofowns.com is a website that has our web our stuff on it and you can go there and learn all you want about our podcast and click on episodes in the way that you see fit we're on twitter we're on facebook we're on instagram it's game everything is game of owns we also have a reading order for feast and dance it's at a feast with dragons.com where you can just find that link on gameofowns.com so we'll be at ice and fire con next week. Come hang out and say hi. Hannah and I will both be there. And just say hello, you know?

And tell me how much you like Chloe and Eliana. And then that's something that we can relate on. And we can start our friendship in that way. Oh, no. That's not a good... That's not a... We're scared for you. That's not a solid foundation.

I'm so scared. I mean, for me, what else are we gonna have in common I really like you guys so it'll be easy to speak on it maybe a song of ice and fire that could be

the next thing that's too everyone argues about that who's a secret Targaryen who's not etc

well we'll find out more of who's a real secret Targaryen soon at ice and fire con when the winds of winter

drops thanks George you're really making our party like the place to be. Thanks so much, everyone, for listening. We'll be back next week with our final Sam Tarly published chapter until we come back with a new book, New Year, New Us. Fingers crossed.

Oh, my God. But, yeah, next week, Sam 5, A Feast for Crows, outro to Sam. So stay tuned to that. Can't wait to bring you that. Amazing chapter. So good. And it's going to have a lot of good talk for Sam's future. Indeed, indeed.

But until then, if you would like to keep up with Girls Gone Canon News, for example, that panel that Chloe and Zach are doing together, or perhaps the Civil War brunch, or perhaps the Patreon episode, or perhaps again that Sam episode, or maybe a His Dark Materials episode. There's much, much going on

here at Girls Gone Canon Land. You can find us on social media at Girls Gone Canon on Twitter. That's C-A-N-O-N. Or perhaps you have thoughts that you would like to share with us. You can send us an email at girlsgoncanon at gmail.com. And,

you know, speaking of the Patreon, you know, again, we have many things going on at patreon.com slash girlsgoncanon. If you would like to, you know, we will have another episode besides all the ones that I just listed. For example, the April Fool's episode inspired by our queen, Chloe. Okay.

Yeah, it's going to be really fun. I'm excited to talk about butter bumps and myself. You know, as the true April. We're going to be butter. We're not doing bumps. We are not doing butter bumps. Okay. Butternuts.

We're not doing bumps. We are not doing butter bumps, okay? And hey, if you are not already, make sure you're following us on a streaming platform near you, wherever you listen. If you're a Spotify user, Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Podbean, where we're hosted, Stitcher, Acast, iHeartRadio, Pandora, you name it, we're on all of them. Look us up.

Drop a Google. You'll find us as always i've been one of your hosts chloe and i've been another one of your hosts eliana we'll chat with you next week thank you for everyone to everyone for being you know a fat pink bass in our life god bless us every one us. A whole ocean full of fat pink masks. A whole ocean and I pick you. The motion of the ocean. Okay. Goodbye, guys.

Goodbye. Bye, everyone.