Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 164 — AFFC Prologue, Pate (but also Alleras) ft. Nate of Brotherhood Without Manners

Episode Date: August 12, 2022

We're going back to school with Nate of the Brotherhood Without Manners podcast in our glorious return to ASOIAF POV chapters. Eliana's back - just in time for school announcements.  We talk tinfoil, TWOW, the Citadel and more in the "Pate, Pate, it rhymes with Nate" POV!  Mentioned in episode: Davosfingers Episode 118: Sphinxes, Dragons, and Darker Things featuring Lo  Alleras/Sarella, The Sphinx traversing boundaries of sex and gender by Lo the Lynx  Where to find Nate: @MannersWithout    https://www.brotherhoodwithout.com/ Dreamlike Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage  

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire, episode 164, A Feast for Crows prologue, Pate, featuring Nate of Brotherhood Without Manners. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. I haven't said that in a long ass time. Who? Right? I was like, I actually was like, how do I introduce this episode? How do I open? I actually was like, how do I introduce this episode? How do I open? It's usually like every week I usually open. I have to tell you, Eliana, you say this, but this time I let you go in. I'm sorry. You did. You did. And, you know, we are joined by another other host today. And I will say, you know, we'll talk a little bit about the process of how we figured out who's guesting this week in a second.

But hello, everyone. It's Nate. What's up? Hi. Welcome to me. Thank you. Yeah, our third Girl Gone Canon. We could not be more excited. I haven't gotten to hang out with you since Aria 8 in Storm over at your podcast, where you guys are doing a very spoilery reread of A Song of Ice and Fire and it's been a long time coming you are you're just getting to the Red Wedding and you're going like in order beginning to end is the plan here and yeah we're we're coming straight through the Red Wedding right now and yeah we we had a blast with you when you came

over to to join us over in the brotherhood and so it's it's great to be a girl now i like it good feeling good good uh not a lot of perks still the same amount of sadness melancholy sorry to say but you know that's the podcast i think i can i think i can manage that we'll be good now i know you guys are on most major platforms i think right if you're looking you guys are on most major platforms, I think, right? If you're looking you guys up, you'd be looking at Brotherhood Without Manners, and you're over at BrotherhoodWithout.com. Is there anywhere else we can find you guys online?

Pretty much everywhere. Any podcast platform, the same ones that you guys plug, you know, Odyssey and Pandora. I don't know. There's so many to remember these days. Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts and Amazon Music. You just search for Brotherhood Without Manners. We're there. Mostly, socially,

we're active. I'm active on Twitter. Zach doesn't do anything. That guy is pretty useless. I do Twitter a lot at Mann without when i can but i'm a busy guy i'm not as active as i should be on twitter so you know i think everyone could do with touching grass you're doing good you're doing good are uh are you guys doing anything for

hot d coming up are you gonna do any house of the dragon yeah so we thinking, we're not sure yet if it's going to be only Patreon. We've been lax on our Patreon this year, so we're really stockpiling some content over there. And so we're debating on if it's going to be just that or some crazier content. But we're definitely going to cover it. But I'm not sure which House of the Dragon format we're planning on taking. Episodic or every couple episodes, spoiler free, full spoiler. We're still tossing around ideas, but yes,

we will be covering it in some format. I can't wait to hear that. Please also, is it, what's your Patreon? Just patreon.com slash without manners. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. We'll link that below and make sure everyone can grab that link. I will be listening

you know we did the what are they called now the chapters that were released from wins the pre-release stuff and so we covered all those but we did those early on in our reread so we think we're going to cover them again now that we've refreshed on some of these later chapters and where the hell the characters are so we'll be doing some other stuff but yeah it's a lot of fun we're we're planning a lot of good things i'm envious we too will be revisiting povs eliana like sansa when we start a new pov next i should i want to start back you know i'm always talking about redoing povs so i was like oh what what an interesting idea when you said that you were doing that. We're so excited to have you with us and next week we'll be back

for Varamyr in A Dance with Dragons, Adabada affectionately and we'll actually be there with your other half right with Zach. Yeah my life partner, my brother that one he's around

somewhere doing you know the same thing he does on the podcast probably nothing not much oh my god he's great you guys you guys are gonna love him yeah i uh i am he's been talking a lot about the varamir chapter so i'm really excited to what he's gonna bring to you guys but damn i'm excited he's little brother right yeah He's little brother, right? Yeah, he's little brother. Yeah, okay. Just wanted to make sure that's obvious if you didn't know. Because I'm getting the luxury of guesting first, he talks down on me a lot, man, on our episode. So I had to jump in first before he gets the chance next week and just really tears me down. So, you know. You guys were pretty mean to each other when I was there

that's alright though we both like the books so it's okay but I like that you know that I'm mean to you? yeah I think so without further delay what's the point of being mean to Eliana

when we were deciding you know who should be this week's episode right who who which which of the brothers and it this is a lie i actually made this up right before we started the episode this is not true at all but it's because nate rhymes with pate so you're like of course it makes perfect sense this is not true this is that's why it always assumed was the truth and so moving forward that's my canon that's what i'm going i've been saying all day nate nate it rhymes with pate yes you have your own rhyme now we've retconned our first podcast retcon.

It's funny because everybody always says, you know, about the POVs that we're going to do. They're like, they have some sort of maniacal reasoning behind the order of the POVs and they're trying to unravel it. But sometimes, no, there's no reason. Just like this. No reason. Just because it rhymed. Just because it rhymed. What better reason? I'm so glad to have you here for kind of

like a it starts off a little jovial in light of a chapter and then it gets a little dark so we'll get into that but first things first we'll jump into some housekeeping and this month for our patreon bonus episode we will have something out by the end of the month for our patrons in the stranger tier five dollars and above however i think you should be ruminating ruminating on the episode from last month that critics are calling the saddest fucking episode to grace the patreon channel other critics are saying sad but also funny uh these critics are me and eliana personally i know them but we did do an episode on grief in a song of ice and fire last month which you can access over at our patreon if you're in that five dollar and above tier and something else that you can find on our patreon is of course access to our patron discord

and once a month we do a patreon brunch which has games, giveaways, shenanigans, get to know yous. I messed up the alliteration there for a second. But this month, our Discord brunch will be on August 28th, which is a Sunday from 2 to 4 p.m. And as always,

our Discord is open to patrons in the Thunder tier and above the $10 and above the ten dollar and above tier yeah now i know everyone's excited that eliana has finally returned from being eliana farman gracing across the east she's brought sun chaser on back she's here she stole those dragon eggs and i fucking want them back but now now that she's back, we are finishing up our last His Dark Materials Amber Spyglass episode. For those of you tuning into His Dark Materials, that will be back at the end of the month. The final episode featuring Hayley Bowery from the

Manimals and from the Drinking Game of Thrones Brooklyn podcast. You may know her also from the concept A Song of Ice and Fire themed album, Seven, which is amazing. And if you haven't downloaded it, I don't know what's wrong with you, what kind of fan you are, fix your life. But you'll have to tune in for that episode if you like His Dark Materials. It will be a blast. And Eliana, we have some other great news to bring to the people. We do. We do have some other great news. So now that Chloe has finished unleashing the D, we cannot put it back in. My fucking God. We cannot put it back.

And now we just have to live with it, all right? The D is in our house. The house of the dragon, if you you will and we're going to talk about it yes weekly we are going to be putting out house of the dragon episodes upon premiere after 8 21 we're thinking these are going to be coming out on wednesday, so keep your eyes peeled on a podcast platform near you. And not only that, but we are thinking of doing some post-episode discussions with some of our patrons over at Discord, the Thunder tier and above. So more details will be coming out on that. Please do stay tuned for next week's episode with Zach from the Brotherhood Without Manners, because we will let you know a few more details on that and the Patreon episode this month as well.

I really worked hard not to groan while you went through that part. Just for Zach. Just for Zach. Aw, a brotherly love. Without further ado, it's time to get into our lightning round, Without further ado, it's time to get into our lightning round, which this week's lightning round is going to be a little different from other lightning rounds that you may have attended. Yes, this week, we are going back to school. We're going back to magic school, as we've discussed before. And that means that we've got some stuff to take care of to get everyone on the same page. So we are here at the Citadel for Syllabus Week. Folks, that's right, yes, we are going back to school at the Citadel,

the home to complex buildings, maesters, and many, many birbs. The Higher Place members of the Citadel are maesters. Some teach and train students convening in the conclave, while others are sent to the homes of high lords and ladies to help serve them and maybe, you know, do a little itty-bitty spying. The Citadel is funded by the taxes of Old Town as well as payments by the lords and ladies who use their service. Lord Leighton Hightower is currently titled the Protector of the Citadel, which sits on the Honeywine, its towers connected with stone bridges houses and stalls sitting upon them

great sphinxes with lion bodies eagle wings and serpent tails guard the gates of the citadel one has the face of a man and one a woman do you have your first class schedule handy let's take a look at where we might be going scribes hearth is our first stop in the Citadel. If you got Scribing 101 on your schedule, you're likely a fresh young acolyte, ready to serve, write and read letters for the citizens of Oldtown. You'll be sitting in an open stall for your shift, writing, reading, and even selling and buying books and maps. The path divides after the Scribe's Hearth, and King Daeron I atop a tall stone horse, his sword pointing at Dorne,

and a monument of Jaehaerys I, with a plinth reading, He bound the land together and made of seven kingdoms one. Or maybe you're looking to attend Blackbirds and you spread your wings. You'll need to head over to the Isle of Ravens on the eastern bank of the Honeywine, marked by a weirwood tree. Taking the White Ravens and me courses here? Head to the White Raven Rookery in the West Tower. Or maybe you're ready for long hours of studying, embracing the finest books in all of the Seven Kingdoms, and more.

Come check out some of our most famed books like The Lives of Four Kings by Grand Maester Kaith, detailing Daeron I through Daeron II's kingships, more notably being known for being chopped in half by our good king Joffrey Baratheon. Maybe you want to read Unnatural History or the partial collection of Valyrian history, Fires of the Freehold, or our sole remaining copy of Blood and Fire, sometimes known as the Death of Dragons. Also, it's super totally rare and really locked up well, so you shouldn't go looking for it.

Or maybe you've been given punishment for failing a course, or mouthing off to your seniors, or for existing. Or maybe you just need to ask the Seneschal something administrative. Either way, you should head over to the Seneschal's court, where it won't be awkward at all for you. Or maybe you're feeling like you should jump a boat and get

away instead of accepting this punishment. Or the equally tedious waiting for the Seneschal. In which case, the Weeping Doc will take you to the Bloody Isle. Also, just a note from faculty this year, students, please don't pet the stuffed little valyrian anymore. It's already naked enough from you fools petting off

all its fur over the years for good luck. Have a great first semester at Westeros U. I feel like we need, like, the cheerleading team in the background. Meisters! Meisters! Let's go towers! Oh, yeah, or towers, I don't know. Like, what would their, yeah, yeah i'm guessing which is kind of a stupid mascot but i mean you know that's the reach that's the reach what was it gonna be roses

uh yeah citadel it's college you know it's a syllabus week i'm excited to be here and like all jokes aside okay uh, all jokes aside, sure. This is kind of a cool chapter. I found more each time I went like into it, even when I, this morning I said I was done taking notes, right? And then I just kept taking more notes, even jokingly writing that stuff. I realized a few things about the Citadel. I was like, oh, what does this mean?

What does this mean? And it is an important chapter, right? Before the split between A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons, George has said, this is actually, this would still be the prologue had he not split Feast into two books. Pate was 100% the prologue character. I love that. Varamyr was an invented prologue character. I love that. Uh, Varamyr was an invented prologue character for the next, not invented at the time, obviously he's been in the story, but he invented the prologue up for him. Do you think he would have used Varamyr as the prologue for wins if he didn't split them? Interesting.

Or do you think he had someone already planned for that one? That's really interesting, especially if you think about the Bran chapter, right, that he cut and moved around. I wonder if we could have a very different order in Winds had that been the prologue. I don't know. I don't think so, though, because we now know his plan for Winds, right? Sure. Now. As far as, yeah.

It probably changed a lot. I'm sure it changed a few times now that we say it out loud what do you think eliana yeah i i think uh he always kind of had that plan for uh whatever is going to involve jane westerling right like for something and now it's for wins right because obviously we did not used to have seven books we used to have what three then five and now we have 27 and it's it's just what it is it's just what it is and yeah yeah i mean it is interesting that it the original conception was for pate but i do think that having that veramere prologue has actually given us a lot too um both of them work well for their books but i you know reading through this you can really see how this prologue would have worked for a lot of those chapters as well in dance yeah especially

joined together though i think i really do enjoy this as the that precursor to feast right especially sam's chapters the travelogue we get on the way to the citadel um examining a little bit of that i just think it's so rich all of all of we just finished sam right technically a few weeks ago months ago really truly but we did just finish sam and like reading only his chapters and now coming to this is mind blowing. It's so great. It's so enriching. Yeah, it's neat to see because where we're at, we're Sam has hasn't even returned back to the wall after the fist. And so knowing that this is his trajectory and where he's going to be going once he hits feasts versus, you know,

because we're about to hit feasts, obviously, we're Red Wedding, but, you know, seeing where he is now and how he's going to get down here and this going on when he's on his journey down, as opposed to how much further he has to get there. It's, it's a, he's got a lot of growing in between there. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

I mean, Feast is his growth book for sure. Right. Yeah. And I mean, not only is this on the heels of sam right it's also because we put all the prologues together just just a chapter and by that i mean several episodes afterwards because again girl gone but uh just like two after Crescent, right? So you've got a lot of connection there with, you know, coming back to this focus on Maesters. And you're talking about Sam coming here, but you also have that weaving into Maester Aemon's story as well. Yeah, and the Stannis effects, right? In Crescent, you have kind of the vibe of Stannis being there. And even here, you have the vibe of R'hllor encroaching upon Oldtown and its very old religious kind of sanctitude.

Not only is this chapter focused on aspects of the Citadel and learning, but there's some other stuff going on here too, right, Chloe? Yeah, absolutely. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the gender stuff that's going on within these pages and margins. And I do want to shout out and recommend and we're going to talk about them throughout the episode. But our friend Lo was on a great episode with Davos Fingers, their 118th episode called Sphinxes, Dragons and Darker Things. And they're doing a really great series where they're featuring friends, etc that are interested in a song of ice and fire or have some favorite things to highlight and lo goes into a lot of detail of kind of their love for the sphinx's story and for some of these characters that exist in and

between the lines and gender throughout a song of ice and fire so i'm sure we're going to reference a few things from lo as we get into here today. Yes. And by think, we are. We are going to do that. So, let's dive into it. The chapter starts out with food, you know, typical, typical. Molander tosses an apple back and forth, murmuring dragons. Alleris tells him to throw the apple, prepping his bow and arrow to knock it down,

and Rune, the youngest of them, says he should like to see a dragon. Well, Rune, maybe you should download the new app, Dracarys. You can also... My dragon became a juvenile dragon this week. Thanks. Thanks for asking, Ariana. It's about 60% to becoming an adult. But Rune does want to see a dragon,

and Pate says that I should like to sleep with Rosie's arms around me. And I love that we start off with Old Town being so, I don't know, somewhat related to Lord of the Rings. As you good listeners know, Eliana and I are fake fantasy girl, fan girls, like fake fantasy fan girls. And we have not read The Ring Lord. The most Lord of the Rings I've read is The Lord of the Mood Rings,

which is the album or the song lord of the rings i've read is the lord of the mood rings which is the album or the song mood ring by lord um that is the most yeah that's the most rings i'm not familiar with that is that a that's a real song it is a song it's called mood ring it's not lord of the mood ring but she's the lord of the mood ring yes you see so that's that's close it has nothing to do with lord of the rings however i've watched the movies yeah at least three times and only slept through it twice okay so i just like to say i've watched maybe the movies one and a half times and there's just obvious references i also married a guy that likes lord of the rings. So thankfully, we share that, right? Like, he tells me things when I ask him about them. It's a very expansive literary analysis that's not happening. But you

have the honey wine in Old Town, right? Versus the brandy wine in the Shire. And there's the most obvious reference to Rosie, right? Samwise's Rosie, and here it's Pate. The tavern in Lord of the Rings, right? The Rosie works here, green dragon versus gold dragon going on for Rosie. I like the green dragon Lord of the Rings tavern. I think that's a cool reference. So I do Rosie herself. I like the Rosie reference, but I don't claim to be an expert on the Lord of the Rings, but I've dabbled in those magazines before. And so at the end of them, Rosie does marry Samwise. I don't think Pate is Samwise. And so that's what I think is really fun about this reference to Rosie and cause it's very similar with being a barmaid.

And George obviously takes it a little, another step further there by selling her maidenhood for the gold dragon. But I, I definitely like the fact that, yeah, this may be Rosie, but sure as shit is not Samwise Gamgee. And so he thinks,

he thinks, you know, everybody's the hero in their own story, but he's definitely not fitting that mold. Honestly, and we look at this and how it's encompassing A Feast for Crows and some of the central themes in A Feast for Crows, but, I mean, looking at A Dance with Dragons, who does that remind you of? You're not the prince, Quentin.

You're not, you know, you're the you're not the prince quentin you're not you know you're the frog not the prince right now that's really a great mirror for the front of the book pate not being samwise and quentin also not being the hero of the story and dying via dragon flame poor guy oops oh never heard of him yeah but it sounds like you're telling me it's interesting samwell tarly is going to break up with gilly and mary rosie at the end of these books that's what you just said right that is exactly what i'm saying i am so glad you helped me elaborate that because zach is going to be thrilled about my new theory this is a tinfoil theory it is now if it wasn't before i did think

for like half a second you were gonna to actually say that. Oh, really? Just putting this out there. I did think. This is your show. I'm just here to help you guys. There is one thing that I worked very, I worked a tremendously hard amount of time today to understand something that I think I understand that is definitely also kind of Lord of the Rings-y.

Lord of the Mood Rings-y. that is definitely also kind of Lord of the Rings-y. Lord of the Mood Rings-y. The Riddler versus the Riddle being related to the Riddle of Strider from Lord of the Rings. Gandalf basically leaves Frodo a letter. Within the letter is a poem reminding Frodo to make sure that the Strider that he is to meet is the real Strider. And basically the poem is used for him to identify Aragorn in disguise. And then later Aragorn quotes the first two lines, not actually knowing the poem in the letter, or is in the letter I should say, and that confirms his identity. And later we have another reference where Bilbo recites the poem at the Council of Elrond, and Boromir is kind of doubtful of Aragorn's claim as the heir, and that's when,

you know, that poem reinforces, yes, he's the heir. So there's something interesting. I'll read the poem. Very short. The Riddle of Strider. All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither.

Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes of fire shall be woken. A light from the shadows shall spring. Renewed shall be blade that was broken the crownless again shall be king so i don't necessarily i mean the sphinx being like not the important part right like the riddle isn't what is the why for this all what is the amusing why and i don't know what it is but the riddle of strider has that kind of epicness and poetry that i mean it reminds me immediately of john snow also kind of being a

part of a riddle of his own for example and some of these secret parentage is going on or young griff or daenerys right who all could come into plot with old town soon so interesting interesting little reference of the riddle versus riddler in the riddle of strider it is interesting it is interesting and also you know as you're saying right like people just sort of coming out right that from the ashes of fire shall be woken that does sound a little like uh in a way a lot of these stories they're just coming out of popping out of nowhere but not really and that's what the chapter's about right like with the dragons with aleris bringing you know kind of that opening to say uh continue talking about the dragons i believe you i also like that the riddle as you mentioned

was used to reveal aragorn and we are specifically as you mentioned, talking about Alaris and the Sphinx, the one who does riddles, the riddle most easily correlates as this surprise. I'm not who I say I am. Look at me. But without actually saying it, having that extra allusion to it with the riddle itself. That's fun.

I like that. I had, I sent it to my husband. I was like, this sound true to you? Like what I'm saying is not being made up right now. And he's it to my husband. I was like, this sound true to you? Like what I'm saying is not being made up right now. And he's like translated it. He's like, yeah, you did good. Good job. I'm like, yes.

You did it. I thought that was interesting. And I definitely think it's a reference because Old Town is just peppered with this high fantasy reference from George all over. Everything is very mythical and mystical. Yeah, absolutely. Another reference, Aliris and melander and the apple the apple of discord being thrown opening up old town for all sorts of shenanigans and fuckery going on true interesting it is interesting obviously fruits mean things and fruits and stuff will come back in Doran's storyline right related

Doran's storyline uh but here I mean we all know apples kind of stand in for knowledge because here we are at school magic school and you've got the biting into the apple and you have an aspect of that carnal knowledge as well right like pate is pate is trying to get not just knowledge at old town and doing a terrible job but carnal knowledge of rosie and and uh pate bites into the coin right that same coin that again he hopes will buy him that carnal knowledge and then he has his own la fall of man and by that i mean he he literally falls down on the ground because he died damn spoilers i'm just kidding we've read this series too many times i don't know why i went for one apple and not the other right um but i'm glad you're my other half and complete me on that and i gotta say i'm really sick of you comparing apples to oranges hey hey hey

thanks for schooling us oh of course of course did you know I'm actually no one no one needs to know this about me and apples never mind we don't have time for that I don't now I just need to take a bite can you just say it it? I'm just allergic to raw apples. Oh, that's right. You have told me this. They make my mouth itchy. Yeah, yeah. I am apologizing on behalf of the universe for you. Because that sucks.

Not even like a little caramel? Not a little... Actually, allegedly, if you put an apple in a microwave for 10 seconds, it breaks down enough of the protein that it wouldn't make my mouth itchy. Because I can, like, drink apple juice, right? I love apple pie. All these things. Those are fine.

That's cool. But anyway. At least you're not completely deprived. Exactly. Because I do like apple things. Well, and at least you're never going to cause the fall of mankind. Oh, my God. That's so true.

That's so true. Oh, my God. That's so true, Dustin. Pate thinks that Rosie will be his by tomorrow. He'll take her far away where no maesters could follow them. He'll go to the free cities. We get kind of an intro. Emma, the older of the serving wenches at the Quill and Tankard,

was laughing through the room ahead and Rosie was her daughter. Fifteen, freshly flowered, Emma was selling her maidenhead for a golden dragon, and Pate was saving up at the piggy bank. At this point, he thinks he'd be better off hatching a real dragon than saving up to make one. So I'm gonna go a little

off the rails, a little tinfoily here just because it might be crazy sounding, but I get some serious Peter Baelish vibes from that particular section where, first of all, because we call him Creeper Baelish over at the Brotherhood, and there's just heavy possessive vibes the entire time from Pate. So, like, I'll let it be known now, Pate's a piece of shit.

I really don't like Pate. But for a lot of reasons, and I'm going to go over a couple of them real quick for this tinfoil theory. I think that he's the unmotivated Baelish because he bitches and complains about not being able to afford things. But he's like, she's mine. I'm going to fuck. She's gone. We're going wherever I want, whether we're going across the land here, whether we're going across the sea. She's mine

she has no choice in the matter and then like she's gonna give a shit about you like she got her gold dragon like be done with it and but he won't do anything bad like Baelish would go in and start like extorting people to make the money and be like here here's five dragons I'm gonna take her with me now because I bought her as a slave but it's not slavery because i'm bailish and like i just he's just the the knockoff version of peter bailish he's he's just a ripoff well to be fair he is 18 right so true he is just becoming bailish becoming bailish the the new hit series I mean Peter got a head start he started really young right yeah but there is a lot of what you're saying like there's a lot of that and Eliana's gonna go into it later I know too but there's a little bit of like like Robert

Baratheon's possessiveness over Liana right Liana never wanted him does rosie even want you dude she gets this is her job she gets paid if she's nice to people at her job more than she would get paid if she was mean to people at her job and it's something like god i just remember hearing it from like a guy i worked with once in a warehouse that he was like oh yeah you know those girls at meyer they like it when you flirt with them at the at the store and i'm like no it's their job they probably it when you flirt with them at the store. And I'm like, no. It's their job. They probably don't. You're wrong. I mean, like, they can choose.

But Pape has a very built up vision in his head of what he thinks is happening here versus what's not. And that buying someone is like, you could just buy a person to love. Yeah. Actually, now that you put it like that that it does harken back a little bit to uh some of the stuff that george explores in his short story beat house man of yeah you know buying someone in that way and having them fulfill everything i mean and you know her name rosie there's a lot there's a lot built into there right Pate's kind of looking at her with these rosy-colored glasses, if you will.

I actually kind of think that's something that's being played on, but not glasses necessarily, but that idea, that outlook, and he wants to abscond with her, and that makes me think of someone else who's associated with Rose's mess.

You almost want to feel bad for him at the end. But you kind of deserved it. Like, you didn't even know why you're biting the coin, you dumbass. Like, that's on you, bro. Like, shouldn't have done that. You know? And there's just so many characters that he's very much similar to. Even shitty characters.

Not good people. But he's not a good version of them. For instance. He was the exact same role as Chet. But Chet at least had the. Smarts to be like. Yo I've got it cushy here. And was pissed when Sam took that.

This guy's like yo this sucks. And don't get me wrong. Some people just don't want to be wiping other dudes' asses. That's just how it goes. But you have it better than you think. And it's like you said. He's young. He's been here for five years.

He doesn't really know much else. But, like, you're making the worst out of a pretty okay situation, you know? You're not applying yourself in school. Do more, you know? I think applying yourself in school do more you know i think that i don't know i i feel both ways about and i think we're going to get into it later on too because i do see kind of some of the other bits of it of class of like you know you'll you'll you'll see as we go along to some of the class things that he runs into and some of those barriers but i don't know yeah i i i definitely don't feel attached to chat

i will put that out right now i want you all to know that i'm not attached to chat nor his boils of all of the prologue characters probably speaks to me oh god him he speaks to me probably in the lesser rungs right like him and varamir they don't speak to me as people. You know, I'm sorry for them or whatever. Good luck. Or wait, they're dead fuck. So, you know, whatever. Well, technically Varamyr is not. Pate, I feel.

Oh, Varamyr's still alive in his. That's right. Technically. Spoilers. But God, Eliana, I'm just reading these. It's a reread podcast. Shit, I need to quit. Pate, I do feel like at least you feel bad for him right like i do feel a little sympathy for the sucker see no sympathy i don't know we'll clash

on no go ahead go ahead tell me about clash this is feast we will feast on this later god god sorry we'll feast upon this later but first armin the acolyte tells rune he's too young for dragons born too late armin is wearing his links his pewter tin lead and copper the last dragon had dined in king aegon three's reign at least the last dragon in westeros aleris urges them to throw the damn apple again there's this great note that aleris is like really good looking and all the serving wenches dote on them the most and favor them over the others in the boy gang. And I love that because there's kind of this low key feeling, like listen, even just like girl at a bar, like you trust another person that's kind of like, I don't know, androgynous or like genderqueer,

or you could just tell blurs those lines in between and they're you know not quite armin or molander like absolutely i too would prefer aleris over leo tyrell you know i would dote on aleris as well i get it this is a very relatable thing george has put in the text like ben the girl at the bar many times and you levitate towards those folks they They're good folks. Yeah, absolutely agreed. I thought the exact same thing, but also there's part of me that questions like, is Alaris actually that good looking? Which, I mean, probably. Alaris has some of those good genes going through. We know Oberyn was very, very handsome.

And those beautiful summer islanders. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Gorgeous. Oberyn could pull also, as we all know. But also, Alleris, probably because of the aspect

of, you know, being genderqueer, etc. probably actually treats the cervic wenches as people. And you know what? It doesn't really matter what you look like if you treat people like people. You know, as George says, when people are like, how do you write women so well? He's like kind you know to anybody there's no i don't give a shit who you are you're you're a person and so of course you know his kid's gonna be the same way and i i absolutely agree with i love that that point the attracting people you're just

people are drawn to that kind of person there's a confidence about them that they're just they they're you draw people to them they have that it's a whole vibe yeah you just want to you want to chill with that it is that though like it is the the charisma and the raw magnetism right not just like an attraction physically but like they are respectful and they also have a crazy good vibe like through this whole chapter aleris is the funniest the most confident the the person approaching this with the most ease you definitely feel that from this chapter it aleris like comforts pate quite a few times so like aleris shows like that empathy right as you were saying that's the charisma that aleris has and it comes from making people feel at ease thank you you you could i remember i. I remember one night when a friend of ours said you were the most charismatic person he has ever seen in a rut.

Armin argues the last dragon in Westeros was the last dragon. And Adalaris' urging finally throws the goddamn apple, which is caught midair by a golden wooded arrow with scarlet feathers. Another really good reference that I didn't notice till this slower reread, the feathers of the summer isles on the arrows, right? That's another hint. Oh, it's Aleris slash Sorella. I thought that was great. Great little touch.

We'll get a couple more of those little touches throughout. Yes, I remember you bringing this up also. It was a brilliant observation in the same chapter, so're gonna dig into it a little more uh i i just want to say i love how fucking annoyed aleris gets about the apple and she's like can you just please fucking throw it already why are you still holding it um but also i i like the way some of this is phrased right about the dying out of the dragons they're very clear of the dragons that died out in Westeros were the last ones in the world, which shows that even though maybe the dragons supposedly came from Asshai, there are no more there. So it kind of helps with that world building and puts those theories to rest a little

and really goes to show why Daenerys' dragons are so special. And it is pointed that they're saying the dragons in Westeros that died out because it shows that they don't know, because these dragons are now in Essos. Anyway. Oh, clever. Very clever. Clever play on words there. Pate doesn't see the arrow hit, but hears the splash when it falls in the water,

and Melander calls it a sweet hit, which makes Pate stop thinking about where he is and start thinking about rosie them beautiful hazel eyes damn titties dimples in her cheeks the way her hair curls the clean smell of her the way she sometimes served barefoot in fact pate's kind of a foot guy so he starts talking about her feet in some detail uh and he daydreams about buying them a donkey, taking turns riding it as they wander Westeros. Yeah, he's got this really like fleshed out thing here, but

I agree. Like fleshed out? Yeah. So it's now canon, right, that Pate created the little piggies playing on the toes in Westeros, right? That's what happened there, right? Like he came up with a little story for each toe.

Oh my god, yeah. And so he straight up created the little piggies in Westeros. Like the pig boy, yeah. Right, the pig boy. I didn't realize that was foreplay. Oh god. Does footplay come with the one gold dragon? I have questions, George.

You called it out out and it's so true and we should absolutely acknowledge it that as we've been discussing pete is a feet guy and uh george really wanted to make sure that we knew that right usually george uh talks about other assets which he does here right he doesn't talk about her ass which i again i always think is so fascinating um but you know as we've been discussing about you know how pate's like he is the other side of that coin if you will golden dragon uh from chet and everything in this paragraph he it's about how much pate loves rosie and about her, but the text is very, I think, intentionally questioning that and shows us that because not once do we ever actually see Rosie, A, speak in this chapter, I think, or ever speak to Pate in this chapter at all. It's

all just, like, Pate projecting his feelings onto Rosie and assuming that she will love him just because he buys her maidenhead. And like none of the descriptions of what he loves about Rosie are at all about her as a person. It's just physical descriptions about her and her feet. And we see in a moment that Pate has done a pretty bad job of making a place for himself at the Citadel and his fantasies for his future haven't gone well, and Rosie isn't an object of love for him, but an object of desire. Not for Rosie herself, but for Pate to create a new idealized version of himself, a future or purpose for him to desire, you know, where he is needed, rather than Pate putting in the work of figuring that out

himself, of who he is. Pate's just this empty vessel who doesn't know who he is, which sets the tone for the rest of this book, especially with the Aria chapters. And as the series starts diving into the murkiness of identity. Well, the Aria stuff is so interesting, right? And I think there's a lot to bring in with the faceless men in this chapter. And I'm actually not very well versed in it. I had to do extra reading today you know pulled out the old t-waff the old asswaff the old f and b god it all

sounds a little dirty when you put it that way unleash the d unleash it unleash it but i had to pull out some of that today just because i kind of wanted to ruminate on the faceless men for this episode because they're very much here you might not see them or realize it till it's too late like poor fucking pate but that whole idea of giving up the identity or you know who you are versus who you're not versus who you want to be really becomes big yeah and my i would only argue that i think that it's we've been really heavily pushing that, that that's been a very prevalent depending of course on whose story prevalent theme in

especially Arya's at this, even at this point at the start of Feast, she's taken on seven, eight identities from various traveling situations and Sansa's had a couple here and there, Jon's taken on the Night's Watchmen, the Wildlings.

So identity's a pretty heavy theme throughout the entire series. This is where they're bringing in the faceless men to really show why it's going that direction in some character arcs. But also, you know, to fuck with our heads because Martin loves that.

But I love the thought of the just identity, especially going into Feast because we haven't gotten to explore that yet in this reread where we're really analyzing these things. And so to see it fully evolve now from where we're starting, even as early as the prologue,

it's super exciting to see where it's going to be going. Yeah, absolutely. Especially those Aa chapters get really intense, you know, going blind. I mean, this is the perfect chapter to kind of tell you something is up here. Something is up and something's about to get happened and even more than that.

Something is not right, as Miss Clovell would say. LMAO. While Meister Ebros doesn't think highly of him, Pate knows how to leech a fever. Set a bone. He could work amongst the small folk,

maybe even learn to trim hair and be a barber. That could be enough, so long as he had Rosie. The terrace is torch-lit, mist hanging in the night. Downriver, the high tower beacon floats like a hazy orange moon. The alchemist should be here by now. Had something happened to him? Pate was used to bad luck. He'd never felt lucky to be old Archmaester Walgrave's helper, for example.

Stuck overseeing the ravens with him, fetching his meals, sweeping his chambers, dressing him. There's something in that just about how, like, something, a lot of something with like Sam, for example, and looking at like, I mean, the Nega Sam, right? Pate is, I'm going to agree with you here. Pate is the Nega Sam, you know, is really what I'm seeing it as. He, uh, Sam who never, you know, looked at Gilly in a way of owning her, even when her

culture says, if you steal her, she's yours, right? Where here he covets Rosie. He looks at her as if she is his, even though he doesn't even have the fucking coin yet to say it. Whether or not that's an appropriate way to get a girlfriend or a wife, you know, that's neither here nor there. Like, he doesn't even have that coin to do so with. He's already admitted he will never get that kind of money. Yeah, he's already admitted he will never get that that kind of money yeah he's already grappling kind of with that and you know pay betraying uh wall grave i mean

exploiting kind of betraying him you know thinking this is his one chance to get out as we'll talk about it's uh definitely the opposite of sam who just spent the last few months well who's about to spend god time what is time for us the last few months but sam is about to linearly in these chapters spend months on the ship with amen taking care of him you know doing stupid things for the one he he loves for amen doing like dumb wasting their money shit but he's about to do all that in comparison to Pate who was like I'm gonna steal that key Walgrave never did anything for me I'm gonna steal his key right yeah and I think there's something that uh I think you said this earlier Nate about uh that mirror to Chet and we see that also because Chet had that position right also with Maester

Aemon until until Sam came and replaced him and so there's a lot of those same echoes there too there's also something it's not like quite one-to-one but it also in a way reminds me a little bit of you know not just Nega Sam but an idea of who john would be if sam hadn't set that context for him and been like the reason why you're a steward and doing all this stuff is because you're being trained for the role that you're gonna have later on and i mean that's what pate's being taught to do right to serve to serve the realm right it kind of sucks And also like you can see he feels like it's a dead end, which we'll talk about in a bit. Pate kind of thought he'd at least get his black iron link for Ravencraft out of this, but it turns out Walgrave is unfortunately only an archmaester

by courtesy now. He has kind of surpassed the time of being a great maester. And it's really sad. He soils his small clothes constantly accolades find him weeping in the library lost unable to find his chambers not great it's so sad i don't know like that just made me so sad and it's horrible i don't know people having dementia and alzheimer's just makes me sad and uh it also that loss of memory is something we see come back with amon too right he's losing track of where he is he's like what what the fuck am i doing here and then also losing track of his temporality yeah i had gotten a little hung up on the sentence there in in the book and the way it was worded

just had me thinking heavily on that uh when he was lost in the library maester gorman was sitting in his place beneath the iron mask and i really couldn't i it took me a while i couldn't even understand what that meant in that context what was he excuse me uh i couldn't understand what martin was trying to have pate say in that moment or what was he alluding to here? And so I went and did some weird research and started, you know, I went and watched Leonardo DiCaprio as the man in the Iron Mask. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah.

And so it gave me all the knowledge I needed. But it was kind of more of the illusion of, in my opinion, that he's clearly usurped the role that Warglaive held, and so he's serving as the man behind that mask. But similarly, it's referring to the man in the iron mask that's given to a high-profile prisoner to help reduce their notoriety. And so it's almost the role that Warglaive is filling filling he's kind of still that notorious person but he's just an empty shell at this point filling that position as necessary and so yeah i was really annoyed by that and couldn't quite figure out what i what it meant and then i was like oh it's just because he's i get you never mind and then still watch that movie

don't get me wrong it's a great detail though when you think about it especially his usage like I don't know it's hard sometimes especially when like writing outlines because I'm like this is probably important everything George says is important uh but I love that because even just from the look of it right like the iron mask you could tell that says so much about maester gorman within just a couple of words uh and and it is sad like you you see a wall grave is there to die he has towers to fucking die in right like that's what he has and pate doesn't give a shit about him and and to be fair pate doesn't have to necessarily give that much of a shit. I'm not saying make it your best friend like Eamon became for the little mini family on the road to Braavos and such, you know.

But at the same time, like, it's very- A little human decency would be nice. Yeah, and there's something interesting in that it's paired between Pate being like, I'm so used to having bad luck and then it's like how do you think archmaester walgrave feels like he's tossed aside a like old used dead furniture and b also um there's something interesting in that like like you said they're keeping him still right as an archmaester they're telling people yes yes he's an archmaester. They're telling people, yes, yes, he's an archmaester. And I don't know, not to reference the bad show, but like, there is something as like the old men of the Citadel are all these old, wizened dudes who won't listen to anyone else as we're learning. And they don't let certain people into their old man club. But however, the problem with being an

old man at the Citadel is that you're going to die someday. And all you have left is keeping older men like Walgrave as almost a sign of power, like you said, an empty shell, man at the Citadel is that you're going to die someday. And all you have left is keeping older men like Walgrave as almost a sign of power. Like you said, an empty shell, right, of power. He's no longer this great archmaester that once stood. He can't give out accolades or award people's knowledge or merit. All he can do is get lost and, you know, have a pretty bad time at the Citadel unless he's with his birds so that's an interesting state of also where the entire fucking nation of westeros is at yeah these are the great men you know and they're running out of great old men to put back in those jobs absolutely we're seeing

it we're seeing it across all of westeros and and it's interesting to see that within the microcosm of the Citadel. And so Maester Gormin has taken Walgrave's place. He's the same one who accused Pate of theft. Interesting. Gotta point out. That's funny because Pate is stealing right now. It reminds me of Just putting it out there. Yeah, Tyrion being like well if this is what you think of me then I might as well become

it. I might as well become the monster. Be the monster, Pate. Yeah, and justify your terrible actions um um yeah go all in yeah go all in yeah go all i mean honestly you should have just stolen more things if he was gonna do it you know uh me do crimes right like that's where like if you're gonna be the shitty dude that you are i mean why not take the key and go steal golden dragons right even sam is gonna be taking some fancy fancy books like not just a key to give to someone else yeah how much money do you think

they would buy like go in and steal lesser used copies of books that you know you have a handful of copies of. You know, do some sneaky shit, Pete. Be smarter. That's the failed Peter Baelish thing I was mentioning. Yeah. Baelish would absolutely be like, yo, we have seven of those in stock, but nobody's reading any of them for the last 12 years. The card in the front says how long it's been since somebody checked that book out. And so he takes the other six and just sells them.

He makes double the profit, replaces them. Like, it's a great system. Peter Baelish would thrive in Old Town. You're wasting opportunity, Pete. You could be making a gold dragon a day. I mean, spoilers the magician, so

skip forward 10 seconds, but do you know how fucking hard they worked to be able to achieve this? Pate's just wasting it. Beside the water, a nightingale sings, much sweeter than the ravens

that love to scream, Pate! Oh, I'm sorry, Chloe, please do this part for me. The raven, the little raven voices. I just love your bird voices. Pate! Pate! Pate! Pate!

Thank you. Yeah, the ravens are screaming at him, and he got the big white borbs that are Walgrey's pride. Pate kind of wants to eat them when he dies, but he also is like, I think that the birds probably would eat me if I died. Yeah, so so you know I think there's an aspect there where the

the borbs kind of love him right why else would they scream his name I mean there's probably many reasons but the idea of each eating the other there's something of that that I think kind of resurfaces in the next prologue chapter but we can talk more about that next time. Perhaps it's a strong-sider, which he hadn't come here to get fucked up, but Aleris was partying to celebrate their copper link and getting fucked up, so I guess we're getting fucked up now.

but the nightingale then seems to sing gold for iron, gold for, I'm sorry, gold for iron, gold for iron, gold for iron, which was strange because that's what the stranger had said. The night Rosie brought them together.

Pate had demanded to know who he was. And the man said he was an alchemist that can change iron into gold. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. That's actually a little reversed reversed pay attention to the order of words pate um but again the slipperiness of identity and there's this aspect of it that's kind of about the ability to change reality to change what people are perceiving um that being

reality like of course the alchemist i mean that's what alchemy is right like change one thing into another changing the iron into gold but more so that this alchemist particularly can change who they are because they are a faceless man and they learn about glamours and all the other kinds of magic with the real faces and shit it's a whole thing in this book but it's also kind of reminiscent of the black fires and shows why the pate prologue would also work for many of the other dance chapters uh the rusted dragon sign at the crossroads in that washes up on the quiet aisle of a black dragon that is rusted and now turned red which is what they are doing with egan slash fon and and this aspect of the gold with it

too right you're turning Aegon into a red dragon but you also have this association with the golden company and besides that transformation of this person into another person, into another role. You also have, I think, that transformative power of gold, right? Of power, of wealth. And for one, you have the legacy of Tywin Lannister, who turns out does not shit gold hanging over this book. He gets mentioned, his death gets mentioned here, but also Illyrio's wealth, right? Being able to, with all that gold, buy legitimacy for Aegon. Yeah, gold for iron is really, I don't know, I have a lot of thoughts on gold for iron. You bring up wealth, but when I think, I mean, for the basic of gold for iron, when I think gold for iron, to me, that's money for war,

right? Money for war is what I think. That's just like what the world is, right? I mean, whenever we need some money to be made up because we can't just print more, there's war, right? There's always goods and money and resources to be found where war goes. And it also kind of reminds me in a more exact way of the free folk exchanging their weapons and their goods, all of their gold and different jewelry and different things up north at the wall with Jon and Stannis.

Gold for iron. There's also, I think, the almost, the funny part of it is that he's literally telling him he's going to die when you think of it as the Iron Islanders where you're paying the iron price, iron for gold.

You're paying for your own death right you're you're paying for your own death right now you're paying for your own assassination give me a gold i'll kill you you're done that's oh that's so it's all right the key and you get the gold rather yeah that's a good actually that's another good one it's like it is equivalent exchange right all these transmutations it is yeah death for life and life for death and gold for iron. Yeah. Only for Pate, all he gets, he only really buys death, I guess. He didn't get anything. What a shit deal.

And then the coin was in his hand, dancing across his knuckles, the soft yellow gold shining in the candlelight. On one side was a three-headed dragon. On the other, the head of some dead king. Gold for iron, Pate remembered.

You won't do better. Do you want her? Do you love her? I love this passage because it reminds me of so many things. It reminds me of, like, Illyrio's rings in A Dance with Dragons. He's, like, got his rings in the light. And as he's talking to Tyrion, the light, and we'll talk about this at some point, because I think I have it in here as another reference today, but the light like shines on them as

he's moving his fingers. And it's just so luminous, you can see it. And then the end of this actually reminds me of that language in the Jon chapter about Ygritte. Do you want her? Do you love her? It reminds me of it was wrong to love her, wrong to leave her, kind of. I don't know, there's language there that just reminds

me, yeah, a lot of that, especially with the three-headed dragon on one side of the coin and some dead king or Jon's great, great, great, great, whatever, grandfather. Right. Yeah. And there's also something going on here with the burbs right with these borbs and i have no answers at all like i've been thinking about it i've been thinking very deeply on the white borbs versus the black so it does seem like this white raven is being skin changed possibly by blood raven by bran mean, who the fuck is, maybe they're just saying gold for iron, but I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Also,

I kind of forget that until now, uh, with the Black Ravens being kept separate, again, as we talked about during our syllabus earlier, the Black Ravens are kept in the Ravenry, right? And the Ravenry is very northy. There's a weirwood in there still. There are vines and weirwood leaves and everything everywhere. And it's kind of segregated in its own tower. And it's very, it's like very old school. And in the Age of Heroes, supposedly it was a stronghold of a pirate lord who picked off ships as they came down river. You know, there's someone that's definitely connected in a way to Bloodraven and Bran that I think we're gonna hear a lot more of in The Winds of Winter. Wears an eyepatch, kind of piratey. I don't know if you've heard of him. His name's Euron Greyjoy. I definitely feel like with the whole theme of, like, the birds

and education and this great fucking citadel of knowledge and power sitting on books about Valyria and all the secrets of the world and magic that these maesters won't give away, isn't it kind of perfect that Euron might hijack the citadel and these birds and turn knowledge into an actual fortress of evil and who knows maybe like poison the weirwood and shit i don't know just feels like to me between the birds and the possibility of these uh ravens being around and being skin changed blood raven may just have a little in over here i feel like euronon would be crazy enough, because he's the one that was claiming that he was

throwing dragon eggs into the ocean, because fuck it. Like, you know what would be fun? Just chucking dragon eggs into the ocean. So he seems like the kind of asshole that'd walk into a big library and be like, you know what sounds cool? Fire. Lots of it right now. Just because.

And so it almost seems like he would align with the Faceless Men if the Faceless Men didn't want that knowledge before Euron burns it all down. And so I almost wonder if it'll be more of a hostage situation with him there than so much as the...

I mean, I suppose a defendable fortress of just, no, I'm gonna burn down everything you've ever learned, thought you've learned, or intended to learn. Sucks to be you, but I didn't think about him getting into Old Town like that. Like, I always kind of pictured it as a siege. I'm coming in and just, we're just going to blow shit up in here and knock buildings down. But Euron in there is scary there scary because you know he's summoning cthulhu soon anyway and so to have the additional knowledge from what's being stored at the citadel

that's horrifying that's pretty scary stuff yeah and there is there's a bunch of the theory right that he may have paid the faceless men to kill balin with a dragon egg i know that's a big theory that's been around for a long time i don't know how i feel about it i don't know if i'm in or out on it but it's interesting and could explain you know the casual i threw it in the seeks i'm a badass like no bitch you turned your dragon egg i guess dragon pate gets a dragon but yeah your own gets a dragon egg you threw it away for that interesting that could be interesting he turned it into gold he traded it for gold i feel like that's a shitty trade because again if little finger had a dragon egg

i mean the other part of it is the high towers right they have to come back they have to be a little relevant and i do think like the high tower versus the citadel is the ultimate from the top of the rooftop magic fight let's be real that sounds cool yeah that sounds sick just wizards up on top of the towers just lightning bolts at each other yeah hell yes high tower fuck yeah i'm on board pate had told the Yeah. friends it would have been suspicious if he didn't join his friends so he just drank and drank mood again pate has a weak sense of self and i i don't mean that insultingly but i mean like he doesn't have a strong grasp of on his identity and he defines himself as not a thief and his identity changes in this chapter and eventually to an extent right he kills that identity um and and and he also dies you know you say that but again you have to know your name true theon grayjoy taught us that theon coming back from from reek

and pate unfortunately dies and does not get a chance to come back from from anything at all yet i mean we will at the end of the book but but... For 600 years, the Quill and Tankard stood on its island in the honey wine, never shutting its doors. Pate thinks it could stand another 600. Euron's gonna light that shit down, Amy. Selling wine, ale, and cider to all who visit. I just, I'm sorry, I just love, I just love the name Quill and Tankard I want to go to a bar called the Quill and Tankard. It is an amazing name. I just love it.

It sounds good. Zach and I regularly rip off a swath for their names for our D&D games. We're currently running through the Hagsmeyer ourselves right now, and that's pretty scary. But yeah, all sorts of cool cool locations that our friends who don't actually know anything about did you know there's people that don't know about this stuff at all like we learned this today when someone slid into one of our friends dms yeah wow it's crazy it's crazy didn't know anything yeah so we have these nice great allusions to the series,

and they're right over their heads, so that's fun. You guys are just brilliant. You can steal straight from George. You're just D&D brilliant. He'd respect that, I think. Yeah. I think he'd respect that. I mean, Carcosa, you know, all of his stuff.

We're just borrowing it. I mean, everything's borrowed. That's for sure. Exactly. Are you a thief? Oh, my sure. Exactly. Exactly. Are you a thief? Oh my god. Yes. So, Oldtown is not the world,

declares Molander, who is a knight's son. He's drunk as a skunk. His father had also died in the Blackwater, which is pretty sad, and ever since then, Molander's just always been drunk. That's really sad. The War of the Five Kings has reached even Old Town is what this section's about. Though Archmaester Benedict claims, you know, there never really was, well, actually, a War of the Five Kings.

That's what he sounds like. Well, actually. But I like Molander's character. I hope we see more of him. We didn't in Sam's final chapter. I like Mollender's character. I hope we see more of him. We didn't in Sam's final chapter. There's a lot of, I think, echoes of him that works for Bran and Tyrion's chapters and even Jaime's with his disability preventing him from becoming a knight and so going down this path as a maester. But we also have a great example of the grief and the personal price that the war has taken from him and what how that's sort of permeated across westeros now something you just said too about the war of the five kings uh reaching old town right and that denial of information that archmaester benedict is like there was never a war that misinformation from the citadel going back to those old dudes just

sitting there and holding on to their power and doing nothing. Man. Yeah, there's no war in Ba Sing Se. Oh my god, exactly what I was thinking. Mullender says his father said the world was bigger than any lord's castle. Dragons must be the least of things found out east. Again, agree, Mullender is the most goddamn adjusted character in this chapter. Armin argues these are merely sailors' tales, but Mullender disagrees. When oarsmen all tell the same tale, it probably means it's true. It's a good, I use that in life. Armin thinks the tales all differ. Dragons in Asshai, Qarth, Meereen, Dothraki dragons, dragons freeing slaves.

Mullander argues only in details. All of them speak of dragons and a beautiful queen. Alaris has two more arrows to spend, so Mullander throws them. One is wormy. Feels like a metaphor. If you cut a worm in two, you make two worms, the acolyte informed them. If only it worked that way with apples, no one would ever need go hungry said aleris with one of his soft smiles the sphinx was always smiling as if he knew some secret jape it gave him a wicked look that went well with his pointed chin widow's peak and dense mat of

close-cropped jet black curls aleris would make a maester I really latched onto the worm stuff there, eating worms in particular, because we know that our little friend Aria pulls the worm out of the kindly man's face and eats that. And so I just really liked that connection there between them talking about the worms, and they seem to be kind of popping up in particular locations in their their references and so i just wanted to draw attention to that in particular but of course i'm i also adore alaris so i'm happy to talk about alaris anytime no i love that i didn't think about that at all. The worminess. And of course, not to traumatize you so close to it, but you know, you're at the Red Wedding, right? And who is a little wormy that comes back from after that?

back a little wormy in some aspects so interesting and you know the quote itself does remind me too of Eliana's favorite quote Lady Alessandra your favorite quote about onions right about cutting the rot out it's not perfect but it comes back to that gold for iron and life for death kind of idea right that only making two things by killing something or only death paying for life. And I don't know, interesting that you can cut a worm into a worm coming out of the apple. Like don't throw the apple away. There's still life coming from that apple. You might not see it,

but the worm is useful and the worm can be given, you know, a second thing. I don't know. I thought that was interesting beyond just like confirming sorella is hilarious right that's another reason that exists yeah and i'll i don't know there's also something else going on right um this is where i'm gonna defend pate you know just a tiny bit so don't get upset here nate but pate says like like you mentioned earlier the attitude of his to that possessiveness earlier and like kind of projecting his wishes onto things he immediately thinks aleris would make a maester like you know he's like of course aleris with

aleris's perfect hair and perfect everything is gonna make a fucking maester um which it is class commentary right like pate grew up lowborn uh he's struggling to get his chain filled out he has tried a couple times to do what kind of testing he needed to do to get at least the links that he thinks he could get and now even though he's been trying and can't get anything done he's resorting to petty crime right to be able to get out of the citadel because he feels like he's at a dead end that's a mood maybe i'll go to petty crime next but um aleris is like even if we don't know who aleris is and where aleris is from and who aleris's father or mother might be and yes like if it is sorella definitely still

a bastard and still you know deals with a little bit differently uh social classes but at the same time was raised like a highborn speaks like a highborn has a better education you know of being of doran where bastards are also more accepted than anywhere else in the nation has an advantage to Pate like I will say Alleris does have an advantage doesn't in all aspects of life as we know but in some aspects so I don't know I feel kind of of both worlds on it like yes Pate is being very pathetic and should be more resourceful, right, with what he's got. But at the same time, I do feel bad for the sucker. Absolutely, absolutely. I agree with everything that you said. And it's not just, it's not just any sort of like class that's helping out there, right? Like, Alaris was likely literate from an earlier age. And that makes a difference in terms

of how you're able to process that information and read, right? As opposed to Pate, we don't know when Pate started learning to read. And it's not just like any highborn education. It's Alaris's father, if Alaris is Oberyn's child. Oberyn also probably could have passed down some knowledge because Oberyn was briefly in the Citadel as an acolyte and can be like hey you know what here's some interesting stuff that i learned at the citadel that you can also know so that's a little bit of a you know it's that early college credit that's that ap course you know here's how we can sneak you in also darling yeah like uh yeah i don't know i i

just want to be a little fair to pate that no it's probably not right because also here's the other thing like aleris is a hard worker to be fair like it's not like aleris is getting there without hard work and pate should not compare himself to aleris because of that right like doesn't have those opportunities al Alaris had forged like three links already within a year, and Pate is going on zero. He has zero for his five years at the Citadel. Rune and Melander have him, right? Pate arrived at 13 at the Citadel, and he thought he was ready, got turned down.

Maester Valen was like, nope, I'm a dick. He earned his nickname vinegar valen because he did not let pay fulfill his heavenly knowledge and get that link and then later tries again goes to maester ebrose maester ebrose's sighs are just as painful as vinegar valen's barbs that's why i dropped out of college man i wasn't connecting with those teachers you know I dropped out of college hard as fuck fuck those teachers you should have just gone to the Citadel Chloe maybe not

is what I'm saying are you listening to this well if you had gotten Marwyn as a teacher right or I would have done a lot of acid you're right you would have passed that class you would have been a lot of acid, you're right you would have passed you would have passed that class

you would have been like, listen listen Marwyn, I have a thesis on speed racer like what link does Marwyn have jurisdiction over drugs, is that the link that he can give out, Jesus yeah

but I mean like you know Pate's kind of again that Chet thing right like of the class and literacy etc Chet was like oh I guess I can't take care of the stuff anymore cause I didn't get the education Sam did but anyway

so meanwhile Alleris is trading one more apple for knowledge with Molander promising to tell them what they know of dragons and Alaris purposefully misses the shot because Alaris is very cool and suave like that and Rune calls him out on it

and Alaris says it's because the day you make them all is the day you stop improving and I'm like oh wow amazing amazing thank you senpai so i think that that line specifically goes to show why uh pate's so wrong in that like sarcasm about about alaris because he clearly forces himself to improve by missing that last shot, regardless of whether he's actually trying or not. And so it's that will and desire to improve.

Like, Alaris is a hard-ass worker. He's gotten three links in this past year. Like, don't downplay that, Pete, just because you don't want to put in the initiative. He's busting his ass over there. He's practicing with that bow every day. Yeah, he looks slim and slender because they're

working out every damn day. Probably up running in the morning. Don't sit there and give him shit. I also think it's funny that he said that he'll be a maester when Oberyn left. And so who's to

say that Alaris isn't just here for fun? Yo, this sounds like some cool classes. I'm going to go crash these courses, and then I'm dipping out when I'm done. Once I've got all the links I want. But I ain't being no maester. I've got Summer Islands to visit. I've got apples to shoot all over the world. I can't just be stuck in Old Town or in one city maestering.

Maybe Alaris is going to book it and go do their own thing it does remind me almost of like ned uh in a weird way with his you know the only time a man can be brave is when he's afraid and it's kind of one of those catch-22s like the only time you can you know stop improving is when you stop trying to improve every day you know if you make them all you're not improving it's just got one of those kind of monikers those kind of like catchphrases of thrones are you saying aleris is toxic positivity we get kind of a look at aleris's bow it's carved from golden heart which is a rare and fabled wood from the summer isles pate had tried and failed to bend it once before.

We talked a little bit about this in the sand chapters, right? Because if you remember on the boat, the summer islanders had golden heart bows and arrows. So again, not just the scarlet feathers in the arrows, but the golden heart. Very exciting. And if that isn't obvious enough, the next passage is everything. It is all of the secrets of Alaris in one little passage.

It's a very beautiful description, and we have to read through it. The sphinx looks slight, but there's strength in those slim arms, he reflected as Alaris threw a leg across the bench and reached for his wine cup. The dragon has three heads, he announced in his soft, dornish drawl. Is this a riddle?

Rune wanted to know. Spix is always speaking riddles in the tales. No riddle. Alaris sipped his wine. The rest of them were quaffing tankards of the fearsomely strong cider that the quill and tankard was renowned for. But he preferred the strange, sweet wines of his mother's country. Even in Oldtown such wines did not come cheap. It had been Lazy Leo who dubbed

Alaris the Sphinx. A sphinx is a bit of this, a bit of that, a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk. Alaris was the same. His father was a Dornishman, his mother a black-skinned Summer Islander. His own skin was dark as teak, and like the green marble sphinxes that flanked the Citadel's main gate, Alaris had eyes of onyx. I love that. I love that. That's such a nice, it's such a beautiful description.

I wish we had Alaris. I love Alaris manspreading in this moment. Yeah, I also do love Alaris manspreading. As someone who attended the super manspreader event over at the Brotherhood Without Manners, no manspreading at that podcast. Right, right. You know, this chapter is truly not about Paige. Sorry to that man. I think we all need to accept that. Sorry about that, man. But this, this chapter is truly not about Paige. Sorry to that man.

I think we all need to accept that. Sorry about that man. But this is the Alaris POV. I mean, this is really, it's not, but it is. And I love this beautiful introduction to Alaris, quite obviously Oberyn's child. If the feathers in the Summer Island wasn't enough, this is great. Like this is like really George is in there and he's like,'m just gonna really nail home these details until you get it and the sphinx like such an obvious thing but there's something really interesting happening here that Grecian and Egyptian sphinxes are different right in lore

the combination of the lion's body and human head in Egyptian lore is strength and intelligence. The anthro-sphinx, the sphinx is seen as a male body, benevolent but still fierce like a Greek sphinx, but seen more as a guardian figure, protector of the pyramids, of riches, of power, of knowledge. But then in Greek lore, the sphinx is a lot more aggressive in some aspects, has the head of a woman woman the haunches of a lion and the wings of a bird and often symbolizes brutality mystery seen as enigmas you know killing and eating those who can't answer her riddle like an oedipus so i think there's something really cool about you know egyptian sphinxes being kind of male presenting while grecian sphinxes are female presenting because it actually is like perfect

for kind of that mix of gender right that aleris is between those lines and functioning between and i don't know there's something cool about both of the sphinxes and all of the sphinxes and the sphinx and the riddle i didn't know that um distinction between the egyptian and the greek sphinxes so that is really interesting. And as you said, right, how it plays into gender. And how it plays into the sphinxes at the front of the citadel and them being representative, right, of both of that with the male and the female face, but also here for someone like Alaris who's able to go there.

I mean, my God, I hope by the end of this series, the citadel is open to anyone. If it exists. If it exists. It's a big if. It's a big if. Euron's gunning for it, man. I don't think he paid a deposit on that place. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I think that guy's going to trash Old Town. The Citadel has no insurance. I was going to say, Garmin better get a policy out quick. New business opportunity. You spoke earlier about, at the top of this episode, about our friend Lo, who has done a lot of really great thinking and analysis about Alaris, and some of which they sent to us in an email, but a lot of you can probably get the same thoughts or a similar line of thinking in Lo's email, Lo's essay about Alaris, which we will also link besides the episode that they did with Davos Fingers. And in this essay, Lo talks about the Sphinx also as a representation of queerness when it comes to gender and Susan Stryker's reclamation of the image of the sphinx

and the monstrosity that's usually attributed to it. And that's also attributed to people who break from the gender binary and from especially their assigned gender. And Lowe discusses how not only does this relate to Alaris's gender, but race, right, and the racial, social othering of Alaris, right, that does get brought up quite a few times of Alaris's race. And I would add that the text tells us that Leo specifically calls Alaris the Sphinx because of their race, right? And not just because, you know, Lowe talks about the Sphinx and that othering in terms of Blackness, but also specifically Alleris as an interracial slash mixed ethnicity character. seen as monstrous or bad luck you have terms like half breed or half blood that speak to that monstrosity but also that uh give a sense of dehumanization and that manifests also a little differently right yeah that comes up in fantasy series and you'll probably see them in tabletop

role-playing games too becomes a very literal thing this idea of being a half-blood, half-breed, right? Where you'll have characters who are called that and that are mixed race in terms of, like, dragonborns, mixed with dragonborns or druids or elves or, like, all these other fantasy races. So, interesting stuff. I'd argue we see a little of that with like you know the actual dragon lords in series too right when they start mixing with other houses and starting to kind of marry out it's not exact but i mean valyrian blood purity is a huge thing in this story yep right and kind of keeping the magic keeping it within our walls our Targaryen walls or our Citadel walls here. And they did have Valyrian sphinxes, right?

And they have the dragon wings on their little statues instead. Yeah, I love that. I do love that. They're cute. I don't care about the Valyrians, but I like their statues. But it's real pretty there, you know, and ruined. It's real pretty there, but, you know also on fire but so i wouldn't take a vacation there the citadel will also be on fire too it's like it's all the same everything's

listen you guys you better get your trips in now before global climate change truly takes hold because westeros next year i don't know i don't know it's gonna be a little warm a little hot you know 97 here today i mean imagine what it's gonna be like little warm A little hot, you know, 97 here today I mean, imagine what it's gonna be like At the Citadel when Euron is literally putting Flame and fucking Cthulhu down upon it And the Citadel, you got, King's Landing Is gonna be all up in flames at some point

In the future as well, so just burning from all ends It's not looking good Winterfell Nope, Winterfell burned down too. They're rebuilding. The others are just trying to help. Oh my god, you're right. They're here to fix global warming. See, they're

Westeros' firemen. They got the alarm stinging up there. They're just sliding down their pole. They're like, who put this wall here? You can't put out your fire until it's all done. Maybe George is thinking the opposite, right? Yeah, he's trying to subvert it. He's like, instead of fire, what if it was ice that attacked that?

Armin argues no dragon has ever had three heads. Only the heraldry did. And the Targaryens are all dead. And the Lyris is like, no, the Beggar King had a sister. And Rune thought her head had been smashed against the wall but aleris is like no that was prince rhaegar's son agon you're speaking of rhaegar's sister daenerys not that i know anything about the highborns or their life and i don't care that right there is like an elaine stone john yeah reveal right when she's telling miranda royce

oh john snow the bastard that i know from i mean yeah that's a that's a pretty big reveal yeah yeah um molander does remember daenerys's nickname stormborn and he lifts his tankard cheersing to her asks where rosie is saying our rightful queen needs another round of cider armin is real he's a little upset he's like you got you can't say shit like that man not. Not here in public. You know, these are treasonous words. The spider has ears everywhere. It is kind of treasonous. But I mean, I guess Viserys wasn't wrong.

You know, broken clocks, right? Twice a day. They do still toast to the Targaryens in some places. But it's funny that's shown here as kind of like a drunken joke. Yeah. Also funny that he's like the spider has ears everywhere you know regarding varus when varus is supporting aegon oh yeah so them toasting daenerys yeah it's kind of like a he doesn't know it yet lol but he has no clue but actually yeah

you should shut the fuck up because the spider might might be like, oh, Danny has supporters in Old Town. We better exact our plans faster. But, yeah, he's probably like, Beerus is probably like, oh, this is good for us, you know, we're teaming up with Daenerys, and then that all blows up, too. Exciting. Exciting.

Until it blows up again. And again. Melander tries to argue. They're interrupted by lazy Leo Tyrell, who calls Molander a traitor. He's draped in satin, striped in green and gold, with a black half cape, pinned by a jade rose. Apparently he's had a little red wine, because it's dribbled down his outfit. Been there, done that. That's why I try not to wear light colors. Yep.

Molander's not having it, though, today. colors yep melander's not not having it though today he's like i'm not having it from leo tyrell go the fuck away armin is kind of like what are you doing here i thought you were confined to the citadel for three days and leo's like buy me a drink hot frog to melander his cute little nickname for him uh a cup of arbor gold, and he'll not mention this toast to his father. Leo, of course, has a Tyrell father, and he had lost his last stag on supper after some light gambling over at the Checkered Hazard. I don't know that I'd go hang out there, but it was a decadent supper compared to their mutton. Leo turns to Alaris, trying to ingratiate himself with some, you know, moderate to light racism against the Dornish and the Summer Islanders. Alaris politely declines this, all of this, especially buying Leo a drink, is Leo perhaps threatened by Alaris' popularity,

both amongst the other novices, because people actually like Alaris. They're like, Alaris is a chill person. But also amongst the tavern girls, right? And you have Leo kind of feeling threatened in terms of his masculinity and tied to that, his power socially. But there's also a bit of that economically. Not that I think Leo is really that concerned, but kind of, because he's denied that drink. And that's not how it should be,

right? For the son of a Tyrell, people should be falling over themselves to be like, helping him out. So the light racism, as you will, functions to an extent as Leo attacking, therefore, Alleris's masculinity, and tied to that, therefore, the humanity, especially because Westeros, as this very extremist patriarchal society, in which only men, and especially masculine men, are given that path to humanity,

citizenship, if you will, but not exactly citizenship. We're not there yet, in terms of political theory. But, in an attempt to reassert power, but no one's having it. They're all like, I don't know, Leo, you're a huge dick and I don't want to hang out with you. He's a bully.

He's absolutely a bully, but not very good at it. I mean, again, you can see exactly where that breakdown is. Like he's one of how many Tyrells? He's nowhere near the fucking line of succession. He has no keep. He has no nothing to speak of he's out here

begging his buddies that aren't even his buddies because they hate him he's a racist prick they're like you're a dick you're a bully we're not buying you a drink and he's out here begging them to buy him a drink but yeah i do like the negging approach i think it's really good i think it's uh you should keep trying that one out and we'll see how it goes we do get great one-liners out of him though to be fair i'll give him that i was just really stuck on the whole he was supposed to be confined to the citadel yeah you think you think there's any chance that this is the alchemist in disguise taking on his face for now and just kind of just in case pate didn't do what he needed he's's keeping an eye on him, watching things going on. I mean, I don't think that there's any kind of confirmation one way or the other

whether a face can be taken if the person is still alive or not. But he came in, he had some wine dribbled on him, so it could be an excuse if the faceless man knocked him out, said he's unconscious up there. He doesn't remember. Well, they saw that he was already drinking before he even showed up to the bar, and he was down at the other tavern drinking before as well, so

it just seems like the elaborate kind of ploy that they might involve, so I suppose that's my tinfoil for the episode here, is that this isn't Leo. Maybe this is actually the alchemist. Just keep in a quick eye, so maybe we should watch it and see how far

how much time elapses from the time Leo leaves to how long Pate sits here waiting for the dawn and see if there's enough time for a faceless man to go and swap back over to the alchemist persona. That's kind of fun. I don't know if it's

true, but it is fun. They can use a glamour. They can use a glamour. Yeah fun they can use a glamour because like they can use a glamour and yeah i can't because you can't i think take the face till they're dead but thankfully they're all drunk so it's easier to use a glamour when everyone's drunk yeah that's a fun ass tinfoil i really like that because like you really wouldn't think about it um and we don't know why he's confined we never learn yeah and the next time it's him staring into the glass candle and it's kind of funny yeah maybe it's more of a herring

too like maybe this is supposed to stand out right like now that you say it i'm like that three-day confinement it's kind of like even just in plots and in plot for the moment kind of red herring for them that they're like well you're not supposed to be here and it's like someone who wasn't supposed to be there and then the real person who showed up what was maybe like for dramatic tension in effect maybe we can just assume he was confined from already gambling and drinking and getting caught doing it or something i don't know who cares they seem to have more attention free time but yeah who knows why but they keep telling us that you're a racist asshole when you're out there so if you could just stay here for a few nights and lay low

be less of a prick for once in your life yeah the only other time we see him is outside of marwin's chambers right leo is staring into the candle and Alaris is like, are you searching for destiny or death? And he's like naked woman. And then he leaves like that's it. Like that's the only other interaction we have. So this interaction with Leo and getting kind of this, you know, raw jerk compared to when we see him next. He's very different in the next one. And in the next one, we know that Pate is actually the alchemist, which is actually Jockin. So that's interesting, too.

I think that's a very... Who knows? So once Leo's done handling rejection like a totally normal, well-adjusted adult, he turns to Pate, calls him dirty, and Pate comes back to the front for a moment. He's thinking about landing his tankard in Leo's mouth. He's like, I could be the hero of a thousand ribald stories and he thinks about how uh you know he could be a good-hearted empty-headed lout who would best the fat lordlings and haughty knights and pompous septons uh the tales of course of spotted pate right he had been named for a hero of past of this boy who would you know sit on a lord's high seat or bed some night's daughter,

all to do the right thing, you know, dunk the lunk, basically. But these are all just stories, and in the real world, pig boys don't fare so well. Sometimes he thought his mother must have hated him to name him after Pate. He should have done it. I think everyone would have backed him up. I don't think he would have gotten in trouble if he had hit Leo. Well, I do. Really? Within the backed him up i don't think he would have gotten in trouble if he had hit leo well i do really within the citadel i don't know they'd probably confine him to the citadel for three days and then not watch him so that he can go to the quill and tanker anyway that's true you're making great points guys thank you thank you i'm so glad i have you two to sober

me i can have a pate and leo breakfast club Alaris, for obvious reasons, does not take so well to Leo's shithead racism. And they tell Leo to apologize. And then he and that Leo shames his house with every word he says. And he also shames the Citadel. How dare you do that to our school, our Ivy League school. And Leo, however, asks for wine throughout all this shamelessly with no shame. And I'm just like, I don't know. It's Leo's sorry, not sorry.

Tyrell just keeps asking. He's like, okay, so you're going to buy me wine now? To shut me up? He literally is like, oh, to shut me up, you're going to pour wine down my mouth? Cool. Cool. That's me. Minus the shitty racism.

But, like, that's me. Pour wine. What do you say? How about it? I do appreciate, too, that he's asking for Arbor Gold which is like come on man read the room no one wants that shit right now and also like you're just drinking of your own is there something there also with the gold for iron arbor gold maybe at the same time in the next few minutes here he corroborates everything he's like ah well unfortunately aleris is right by the way i hate his guts but he is right like there are dragons you silly simpletons um and even though he's

drinking arbor or he wants arbor gold because he can't get the arbor gold does that mean he's telling the truth i don't know i mean i mean we know he is and that we know that there are dragons there's that right i just mean the because part like because i don't know what that means but yeah he wants it and can't have it so guess he has to have the truth tonight instead melander threatens his tongue out and leo then says the magic words if you take my tongue out how can i tell you about dragons so yes he corroborates aleris's story danny's alive she has three dragons every man sailing within 100 leagues of karth has seen or is speaking of them marwin the mage was even inclined to believe them he mentions and armin and rune immediately are like marwin is unsound

unhinged all the other maesters say so and leo says one of my favorite little lines the sea is wet the sun is warm and the menagerie hates the mastiff i love that line i don't know i just really like it he's got good lines for a huge asshole you know he's such a prick that his one-liners are hysterical like really good really good george is having fun yes he's having fun but also le Leo is being a little bitch. And Pete does agree, though. Marwyn has much more bite about him, and he's not like the other maesters. He keeps company with sex workers, hedge wizards, hairy Ibanez, the Summer Islanders, and he's often seen in the Undercity, the rat pits and the black brothels. And some even whispered that one time he killed a man with his own fist. I'm like, oh, interesting. and some even whispered that one time he killed a man with his own fist. I'm like, oh, interesting. He had spent eight years in the East mapping lands and searching for lost books, and his name was soon across Old Town. And, you know, except for the part where, like, he kills someone, they kind of make Marvin sound a little bit like Jesus, right? Hanging out with all the common folk

and all the people that you're not supposed to be consorting with uh but it also kind of shows marvin's devotion to knowledge right of all kinds as we see in davos's dance chapters hanging out with all of these kinds of people that's the best way to learn about what's going on in the world in that news so on top of that he to me it seems like he's just a pretty normal regular guy that has some good shit going for himself. Like, we can also learn from, like, even Tyrion chapters that there's sex workers that are significantly better people than a majority of the people that we deal with. If you look at, like, Chitaia and their establishment, it's a professional business where they're well-respected for the profession that they put out. They're not just

sex workers, as these guys are putting it. And similar to the killing a man with his own fists, as the resident boy, I feel as though this is just guys bullshitting. Yeah, I hear he fights, too. So not only can he cast crazy

sorcerer spells, but he can whoop your ass in the streets too. Watch out, he's crazy. And so, you know, how many people, other than here at this table, haven't killed somebody? As the Hound was, what, like six when he killed a dude? Arya's killed hundreds of people by the

time she gets anywhere. Like, everybody's killed somebody. Fucking whatever. So he's got some blood on his hands. He's also hanging out with some cool people. Like, he looks like he's just like, yo, I'm going to get the coolest crew around me, and we're just going to hang out and swap stories. Let's just share information. What do you know?

This is what I know. That's cool. know this is what i know that's cool and so they just they really make marwin out to be such a cool likable relatable person that i'm really worried george is just gonna fucking yank that out and he's just gonna be awful just so awful and so that's a concern of mine but i mean i love marwin he did teach miri mazdour everything she knows about anatomy and he believes in the higher mysteries i i mean again who amongst us has not murdered a man with their fists first of all but uh that aside i mean also he's traveled the entire world like who knows but he i mean for eight years he mapped distant lands looked for

lost books studied with warlocks and shadow binders he's seen some shit and you can tell that he doesn't answer to the same power that you know maester gorman or uh these these kind of fake out little empty citadel people he doesn't answer to the same power or God that they're answering to, right? Like he has seen magic. Yeah, he believes it. And he very much believes it that much is clear from the Sam chapter when he shows up. That devotion is real, and he believes in it. And I don't know, he it's hard not to like him. He's very likable. In a way, the characterization of him reminds me of, you know know like the elder brother marabald these kind of gruffer characters that we meet that are like ah yes child i was in the war and now i'm healing people for fun but he's not healing people for fun he's like i was in the war

and now i'm in the magic war it's a little different you know know? I was in the war, and now the war's to come. Oh my god. So, Vinegar Valen hated all of this about Marvin, of course, and Archmaester Rhyme had told Pate, leave spells and prayers to priests and septons, and bend your wits to

learning truths that man can trust. But, Rhyme's ring, rod, and mask were yellow gold, and to priests and septons and bend your wits to learning truths a man can trust. But Rhyme's ring, rod and mask were yellow gold and his maester's chain had no link of Valyrian steel. Armin Armin is skeptical of

Marwyn having dragon info but Leo says that he's wrong. Marwyn has a glass candle burning in his chambers. Molander laughs at that. Armin sighs, and the Sphinx studies Leo, and Rune looks very lost. Rune doesn't know anything about what's going on right now. And the glass candles are apparently the worst-kept secret of the Citadel,

and we know this because Crescent has told it to us. So, not Crescent. Luin has told it to us, so definitely worst-kept, and we know this because Crescent has told it to us. So, not Crescent. Luin has told it to us, so definitely worse kept because we already know. They're brought from Valyria, some say thousands of years before the Doom, and there were said to be four glass candles. One is green, three are black. All are tall

and twisted. Armin explains to Rune that the night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand vigil, no lantern, no torch, no light is given to him, only a candle of obsidian. He must spend the night in darkness unless he can light it. Um, I don't know, sounds like a good nap time, but anyway, some will try, the foolish, the stubborn, all cut their fingers on the ridges, waiting for the dawn with bloody hands. W your men simply sleep or pray oh that's me

um sleeping but there are always a few who try so yeah i these stupid candles man i love them so much because they're so you know there's so many questions brought up by them um i had a thought in my mind that decided it's not important anymore, I suppose. But I was going to mention the sharpness of the candles and cutting yourself. It's very similar to the Iron Throne on the other side of the continent, where people can sit. These people who are supposed to be, you know, if you're sitting on the Iron Throne, you're expected to be the king, the hand of the king.

Somebody that's wise enough to be ruling the land. Obviously, we've not seen that yet. But then you have the other side here in Old Town where they're supposed to be the ones who are learning so that they can educate and heal the land and the people of it. And both of them have this trial of cutting yourself. And you can, at the Old Town, at least have that option of, I can try and do some wacky shit. I can learn from cutting myself regardless, you know, if you're not pate and you can take lessons from losses.

But I just thought that was a neat analogy, the king versus the knowledge over here with the cutting of themselves on those sharp instruments those who cut themselves aren't worthy of it usually right so the worthy don't bleed from it i love that um i think i have some total tinfoil to bring my own tinfoil in this released it out and maybe it's because of hot d i'm rebreeding fire and blood and it's not very specific it kind of implies all four of these candles are at the citadel but the green candle the fact that there was one green candle

really stood out to me and it makes you wonder if that's the only green candle, if there were other green candles. And what if the green candle was a literal green candle, right? Like passed down during the dance to the Hightower family. Interesting. Especially since, you know, it was brought over from Valyria a thousand years before. I don't know. Who knows?

Maybe not. Or maybe passed down through the Hightower family through this time. But it does make me think of this line from A Dance with Dragons of Illyrio his brow was dotted with beads of sweat his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks jewels danced when he moved his hands onyx and opal tiger's eye and tourmaline ruby amethyst sapphire emerald jet jade black diamond, and a green pearl. And of course Tyrion thinks how he could live for years on those rings, right? He'd have to get a cleaver, but he could sell those rings and live on them. Some paint bots himself.

I don't know, especially with like the dragon dream conversation that's been going on lately of the show kind of hitching its uh its ride to the dragon tale and going all in on the dragon dreams maybe the greens got their own candle right maybe maybe viserys could have helped to to gift alice into one who knows whatever either way i kind of just really want melora and layton to be gathered around a green glass candle in the winds of winter of just really want melora and layton to be gathered around a green glass candle in the winds of winter right i mean these these glass candles are just getting introduced in full at a piece for crows and dance we're seeing them more right sam talks about them with amen or amen talks about them sorry but he spoke of dreams never named the dreamer of a glass candle that could

not be lit and eggs that would not hatch and of course quaithe to danny no hear me daenerys the glass candles are burning soon comes the pale mare after her others we hear so much about these glass candles more and more as the the last two books kind of you know ramp up so to me that means we're gonna see them a lot in the winds of winter or at least more than this and then bringing back to your point from earlier in the episode there's also i think some heavy heavy ties to the lord of the rings with the the palantirs there because i've always i've always kind of thought of the the candles as being i don't think that they're all here at the citadel i think that they're spread throughout the world, and once

they're lit, you can use them as a way to look through the other ones and potentially see or communicate long distances, something of that nature. And so, if it's something similar to that, then even perhaps the green candle is more of Sauron's

tower itself. That's the primary candle, the main one that can see into all the others, whereas maybe the other ones are just more of a receptive, you know, you can't see back through or something of that nature. Yeah, because that feels interesting too. Like, were there only four a thousand years ago?

Were there more than four, right? Reminiscent of the dragons themselves i guess when you think about it like how many did they actually bring over with them well we know aegon and his sisters had three total at that time just themselves but like the candles were there more will we see more resurface and can one of them be a parent and the others the the children candles or how does that work how does it work right would you like to know more i'm gonna add to this tinfoil um i know that i don't know what it was we discussed how they had like the different colored dragon glass and like that cash right

um and green is associated when it comes to the children of the forest with a green dreams prophecy could the green candles be able to maybe look at visions of the future whereas maybe the black ones are more about the present so maybe the green ones less of the Sauron tower and more of Galadriel's fountain

pool where she can see the visions of the past, present, and future glad you're here i do like that oh and not only that but there's something else about that um bran when he eats weirwood paste for example and he's able to see history for the most part or visions of the past we see actual visions right not metaphors but he sees snippets and glimpses. Dani, when she has shade of the evening, is the opposite. She sees metaphors, right? Oh, yeah.

Her visions are kind of prophetic and metaphorical, and very much so her interpretation of what she's seeing. So could it be that kind of difference, right? Because you have, that is operated off of that inverted colored weirwood, right? That blue and black leaf. Versus Bran's white and red leaf. And the black being associated,

maybe, yeah, maybe the black glass candles have to do with metaphors. And if there are red ones, because we know there's red dragonglass. Could be the past. I don't know. Here's what we do know. Thanks to Armin.

The glass candle is meant to represent truth and learning. Rare and beautiful and fragile things. It is made in the shape of a candle to remind us that a maester must cast light wherever he serves. And it is a sharp to remind us that a maester must cast light wherever he serves, and it is sharp to remind us that knowledge can be dangerous. Wise men may grow arrogant in their wisdom, but a maester must always remain humble. The glass candle reminds us of that as well. Even after he has said his vow and donned his chain and gone forth to serve, a maester will think back on the darkness of his vigil and remember how nothing that he did could make the

candle burn. For even with knowledge, some things are not possible. So, it's funny, Chloe, that you were talking about how the shade of the evening trees give visions and metaphors. I mean, the glass candle itself. It's a metaphor. This was a metaphor

for the lessons. And, you know, we see Marvin get to judge for retaining the humility of mingling with all the normies, which is apparently part of the lesson of the class candle that I guess no one really got. I didn't see that on the syllabus, technically. Well, it's just syllabus week. That's more semester two kind of of stuff so if you could just slow your roll slow your roll that's after club rush leo laughs right uh he saw the candle with his own eyes he says the light was brighter than any other candle cast strange shadows never flickered even when a draft blew in. Ooh, kind of reminds me of the shadow babies in some aspects.

Yeah, I was thinking of Miri Maz Duer in her tent, the way the shadows dance on the sides of them. Ooh, the shadows on the wall, the shadows on the wall. It's obsidian, dragonglass. The sphinx muses, if there's dragons in the world again. Leo comments there's darker things than that. Old powers and shadows are stirring a new age of wonder and terror. Gods and heroes will soon be upon them. He wants another round, but Armin says they're done for the night

because some of them mean to forge their silver link the next day. Leo jokes he'll remain because Rosie's there. And of course, you know know he'd like to get it on with little miss thing and pate is not having that he's like you're not hilarious is like he can't even pay for a drink pate chill the fuck out he can't pay for your girlfriend they try to collect pate pate wants to stay dawn hadn't yet broken and the alchemist is maybe still on his way question mark so just to put some more more stock in my theory how the hell would leo know all that shit about new age wonder terror and gods if he's not a faceless man in disguise that seems a bit above his pay grade right there

like that or he's just drunk and bullshitting but I'd rather think that he's the faceless man and that's him just accidentally spewing out that he knows way more than he should yeah he's just having a good time he is giving himself away yeah well and that's the thing is like I do think he is being completely honest right in everything he's saying which is

why he's dosing it with like his sarcasm and his bullshittery in some aspects George is like here's dosing it with like his sarcasm and his bullshittery in some aspects. George is like, here's a character to divulge everything about this chapter to you, if you care to listen. I love that. I love that. They head out for the Citadel.

It's no great distance, but none of them were ravens, right? No great distance as the raven flies, but they're not ravens. As they go across all of the little narrow streets armin tells pate to be careful he says the night is damp and the cobbles will be slippery everyone's gone except for lazy leo who still wants to trade barbs and asking about rosie he's like oh she's probably sleeping naked you know and, do you think she's worth a gold dragon? Really just fucking with him. And one day, he might find out.

Leo might find out. And when her price has fallen, Pate can have her. Thanks, Leo. What a guy. Yeah, so I was just thinking about how the, uh, Pate heard Armin mention that the night is damp and the cobbles will be slippery, and it just immediately brought to mind the Crescent chapters where we first started hearing the night is dark and full of terror.

And so to have that wet and slimy version of that here where there's, careful, it's dark and scary and slippery. So you're basically saying that the night is dark and full of terrors. Don't get yourself killed especially because he's literally walking out and he's about to go hear them say that at their night or their morning fires at their prayers right so it actually it's kind of fun and i mean i mean to your tinfoil right nate i mean like why does leo stick around right like most people don't like sticking around once everyone's left the tavern it's kind of it's kind of weird especially the person that besides when you're being racist, you've shit on the most.

You've talked the most on Peyton, how he's this dirty kid, and he's not going to do anything, and you can have Rosie when I'm done with her, and all these other things just putting him down constantly. Whatever, that's all right. I like this kid, I guess. Yeah. Why is he here?

No one knows. Right? Regarding, you know, how he does end up here, right? We learn a little bit of Pate, he's pretty annoyed about this. He's like, I don't want to kill you, but Leo is also actually trained in arms from the Tyrell family. He's like, I would

lose this fight. He thinks about how, I like the way this is phrased. Leo has two names right leo tyrell and pate only had that one name mace tyrell was his cousin and morn the commander of the city watch another rose if you will and of course old town is led by mace tyrell's bannerman lord layton and then the cider goes to his head as he rises, and Pate realizes that it's Dawn telling Leo to leave Rosie be, or he may kill him.

I'm going to just throw it. I don't even think Leo, I don't think Leo even wants to sleep with Rosie at all. I think he just wants to troll Pate. Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%. And he's having fun. Leo's like, sex is great, but have you ever gotten the people around you mad?

Amazing. He leaves, heads out towards where the sky's turning pink. He's like, I'm going to go buy that donkey, wander Westeros, sign on to a ship, sail to Qarth and see the dragons myself. I'm sick of not living. Eat, pray, love. Oh my god. Actually, though. Really. I mean, he just doesn't want to go back to the Cit pray, love. Oh my God. Actually, though. Really?

I mean, he just doesn't want to go back to the Citadel, which is the biggest thing. Right? And it's kind of funny because it's such an opposite world than Sam and John. Like, Sam's having these thoughts and John, too. I, too, have these thoughts whenever I step into work, right? Like, that I could just quit and leave. But Sam is finally, like, himself walking into this world and understanding wow i could leave and i could learn love from gilly this could be such a great breaking point

in this book for sam in general of him like realizing wow i could just like you know fuck my vows get on a ship and go somewhere with the woman i love and pate is thinking these things and he's so close i wish he would's so close. I wish he would have. Oh, Pate. I wish he would have. I feel like I would have had more respect for him if he took off and bought a donkey and sailed the world looking for. I'd be like, you know what? You shouldn't have stolen from the maester. But, like, at least you're getting the hell out of here and you're doing something with your life.

Like, who's going to begrudge the kid for stealing their mom's last 20 and living their life running away to the circus or some shit like let him do something it's better than moping around and whining and not applying yourself like at least you're going and doing something seeing the world that's better than whatever you are doing now yeah dying but i mean agreed agreed and it seems like he hasn't taken i don't know vows or whatever like he's still he could still leave he could still go because he kept failing all his classes you know he could still go speaking you know earlier talking about john right like if pate is nega sam i don't know leo i kind of think is like a little bit like a nega john right in terms of that class etc should just left yep as sunlight

breaks through the east bells ring from the harbor at the sailor so i i kind of love this i love i love cities and mornings like the time of day. I love this, this, this part. Um, there's another song softer below sweeter, and that is of a nightingale. Here's singing as well.

The red priest gathering to welcome the sun outside their temple, praise the sun. And we have this quote for the night is dark and full of terrors. Pated, heard them cry those words a hundred times, Quote. banners in place of the crowned stag. If he should win the Iron Throne, we'll all need to learn the words of the Red Priest's song, Pate thought, but that was not likely. Tywin beats Stannis, he thinks, and soon he'll finish him

and mount his head on the gates. Ho ho ho ho ho! Ho ho ho ho ho! Oh, Pate! We got this passage about the beautiful starry sept, the black black marble walls the arched windows where children sorry where the the pious clustered like children gathered around the feet of an old

dowager and a beautiful look of course at the rust where the honey wine widens and the high tower where it rises its beacon fires bright against the dawn love that love that image and it does make me wonder though with all this talk of magic and obsidian and these candles could the starry sept be obsidian itself interesting shiny black marble interesting probably not because it's not oily but i was just curious especially with the high tower right the high tower is uh very much so described almost like a glass candle itself with the beacons interesting it'd be and if that like ends up being used later hmm i do love the description of that high tower. It's tall.

Many think that the lords of it prefer to rule from the top amidst the clouds, Lord Layton included. Pate wobbles down his cobblestones, regretting he has no horse. And he thinks, I have to get back to Walgrave. But then he falls in the mud. Womp womp womp. As he rises, another bad thing happens. The alchemist is here. He doesn't know it's bad yet. Standing over him, the alchemist is here he doesn't know it's bad yet standing over him the alchemist says he didn't want to interrupt his fellowship

with his friends he said the thing he's he said the thing he's wearing a traveler's cloak obscuring his features as the sun rises behind him and he says make your choice to paint and we get a flashback to pate opening walgrave's strong box or a bag of silver stags a lock of yellow hair tied up in a ribbon a painted miniature of a woman who looks like walgrave and a gauntlet of steel once belonging to a prince who knows which one laid when he shook the gauntlet a key fell out if i pick that up i'm a thief pate had thought Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pate demands that the alchemist show him the money, the gold dragon, and the alchemist begins to walk away. Pate chooses to follow, not wanting to lose Rosie or the dragon forever. So he goes with them, which is, I don't know, just don't follow strangers into dark alleys.

IDK. Pate's neither book smart nor street smart, is what I've learned. The key up his sleeve is in a hidden pocket. The maester's robes were full of pockets. It's got pockets. They come down an alley, and the alchemist produces the coin, walking it across his knuckles. Very impressive. It glitters in the morning light, and Pate takes it with his hand. It's warm from his palm, and he bites it. He's like, I don't really know why

I'm biting it, but I'm gonna bite it. The alchemist asks for the key. That alchemist, as they say read them for Felathenia, was gonna do that. And see, it is fun, because Arya also uses a poison coin later in the book. We also hear in this chapter a little bit about Pate's predecessor

in terms of serving walgrave and you know what it was crescent who wouldn't you know also dies from poison how fun exciting exciting amazing and then you have of course the warg the skin changer in the next one which is interesting changing yourself into something else identity close not exact but close i love that i didn't i forgot about the coin dude i fucking forgot about we maybe someday we should read those chapters those aria chapters maybe someday maybe maybe maybe what if we got wargs we got faceless men what what if what if we read i don't know what if i think you're gonna say we've got wargs we got faceless men what what if what if we read i don't know what if i think you're saying we've got warren worgen oh my god what if we call them worgen uh hey warren i'm

thinking i'm thinking something makes pate hesitate unfortunately and he's like what do you want a book a valyrian scroll but the alchemist is like no we're not playing this game and pate tells himself run back run back to rosie run back to the inn but yet he lingers and he asks to see the alchemist's face he pulls down his hood to reveal a normal young, a mat of black hair. I do not know you. Nor are you. Who are you? A stranger. No one, truly. Oh. Pate had run out of words. He drew out the key and put it in the stranger's hand, feeling lightheaded, almost giddy. Rosie, he reminded himself. We're done then. He was halfway down the alley when the cobblestones began to move beneath his feet. The stones are slick and wet, he thought, but that was not it. He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. What's happening? He said.

His legs had turned to water. I don't understand! And never will, a voice said sadly. The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too. His last thought was of Rosie. Damn. I mean, he even had an oh moment. He did! Oh, Pate had run

out of words. Oh, exactly! Pate the Quentin. Poor Pate. Poor Pate. Poor Pate. run out of words oh exactly pate the the quinton poor pate poor pate poor pate poor pate sad for him or whatever you know i mean he put sad ish he died because he put the pussy on a pedestal and that's just you never want to put the pussy on a pedestal we've literally been over that we have that's death yeah it's death so yeah my quick thing is haha the the faceless man said that he's a stranger get it because like in the seven and death and then also no one because get it aria chapters yeah it's well done it's well done as somebody who like i get it it's just the faceless i feel like everybody has like their area

of a swath they like the most right i love the storytelling and the character analysis and like motivations of the characters i just don't the faceless men they're not confusing to me i get them it's just i've never gotten deep into them until probably today. Probably today is the deepest I've gotten. I love the Faceless Men. I just like that history of them. They just got, you know, they're the, initially they were the oppressed man, you know, these minors who are, you know, succumbing to these terrible, terrible conditions. And we just kind of want to offer

them a little bit and that's one of zach and i's favorite things is the mercy chapter and just mercy in general as a theme and what it can mean in terms of life and not just here in the faceless men but you know king's landing we'll see you know cersei being tortured and now everybody else that's getting tortured over there for information and and anybody that's just, should be offered the gift of mercy in some capacity. And so it's, it's really fun to see that evolution, you know, that uprising, and then they become so powerful that they decide that they can take it upon themselves to start changing the outcome and events of the world, and how the the planet itself will be moving forward if rumors are to believe be believed that you know they're trying to stamp out or bring back however they're

your theories are aligning there but the the fact that they were initially you know slaves and they were just trying to make the worst of them have, you know, end the suffering a little bit. So, yeah, I love it. That's so interesting. Like Arya too, right? We get that line where she's asking, starting to learn a little bit in A Feast for Crows about the faceless men. And we get very few crumbs, right? And he says to her, revolts were common in the mines but few accomplished much

the dragon lords of the old freehold were strong in sorcery and lesser men defied them at their peril the first faceless man was one who did um there's all these little facts that are like mixed together right that george has sprinkled around right uh very little has he said about it all but then he's talking about dragons being at an end right in the doom of valeria and hinting kind of like maybe the faceless men were around for that too maybe they had a hand in that there's definitely something interesting but there's also the question of like okay we know he kills pate and takes pate's face as well as wall grave's key so now he has access to everything in the Citadel.

One of the big assumptions I think by the fandom is that he's looking for some forbidden fancy books, right? Like the Death of Dragons, because we do know faceless men are mostly anti-dragon. But what else does he want, right? Like remaining Pate, hanging out, getting a college education. He's starting to sound like me first of all okay second of all rosie's maidenhead i'm like what is what does pate 2.0 want now what does what does he want because if he hasn't left yet he's still there mid sam or ed sam i should say yeah yeah and that's he's changed up the persona a bit too because one of the things that you'll

if you haven't noticed if it's not been brought to your attention he identifies himself he gives himself a name and so he's no longer just Pate he takes on Pate like the pig boy and while it's not an official title or a last name

he has been mentioning how he hates that name and how he gets referenced by that. There's no, you know, and of course, that's part of George giving us that, see, he is that faceless man, told you. But at the same time, why are you embracing that type of a persona now? So now you're a bit more, whether it's confident or easygoing, you're willing to accept the fact that, So now you're a bit more, whether it's confident or easygoing, you're willing to accept the fact that, hey, you know what's funny is I have the same name as the big boy.

And he's embracing that. And so there's definitely a change in the outward appearance that's being given off by the new pate. Yeah, there's power in names. Yeah. If you would rather, instead of New Pate, Nate. Oh. So you

want him to be like, you want him to be like Pate. I see. New Pate I do. You're damn right. Faceless man Pate. New Pate now. New Selina now. Amazing. I mean, there's also Pate of the Weepy Eyes in Sworn Sword.

Do you remember him? There's a character named Pate of the Weepy Eyes. I love that Pate always has these little connotations no matter where you get one from. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a Pate in every Dunkin' X. I think there's Steely Pate. Yes, yes, yes. I feel like every single one has a Pate. Am I making this up? Although there's also the Pate that's, yes, yes. I feel like every single one has a Pate. Am I making this up?

Although there's also the Pate that's Tommen's whipping boy. Oh, yeah. And so... It is one of the most common names. Yeah, there's a few of them throughout the Westerlands as well and the Riverlands. I think there's one that pops up, but they're mostly nothing of notoriety besides Pate the Pig Boy. There is one at the night's watch i think actually there's a pate now you mentioned it yeah and it's interesting though because sam when he

recognizes pate as we kind of talked about a little like he knows something is off about this guy and i really respect that about sam he's straight off as like pale soft youth that he misliked uh and that he's like kind of because he doesn't want to be discourteous but yeah that's interesting to me that like immediately he's thrown the fuck off he's like i don't know about this cat i don't know about him i was gonna say what if people like new pate more than they liked old pate that'd be so sad well that's what i feel like is going to happen. That's that outward, because he's going to want to gain access to that. So he's got to be likable. If he's in the Citadel and somebody stumbles on him, he's got to throw out the, what's going on, buddy?

No, I belong here. What are you talking about? Of course I belong here. Look at me. Would I be here if I didn't belong here? And so, yeah, I think he's going to be a whole new person. And I'm just really excited to see what you know nate does how many links do you think nate the pate will forge in the wins a winner at least two oh he's gonna have two or three links by the time we see him and that's really

how you're gonna know something is the fuck up because pate would never get a link not one not one yeah you think it'll take him that long to track down what he's looking for in there well i don't know i mean that's the thing is he's been there for a few months it feels like or a month at least a month yeah has he not tracked it down yet what if it's the horn there Is he there for a bigger... The horn. Oh, my God. I don't know. He wants to get horny. I mean, doesn't everyone in these books? But... Well, I mean, maybe.

I mean... It does feel that way because Sam... Yeah, you're right. No, it could be. Because Sam, like... Well, because he has that awkward, like, Sam doesn't trust him. He already doesn't feel right about him. Yeah.

There's going to be conflict there, isn't there? Yeah. There's going to be some sort of conflict. Sam is going to figure him out. Actually, there's a lot of things now going on there. I like that. Now that you've called attention to the name that I'm, like, thinking about, because, you know, you were talking about... So, the legend of Pate, the pig boy, is that he stood up against the lords and was someone who was a champion of the common men, the downtrodden

and that is kind of aligned with the story of the faceless men to an extent but then like the pig boy and it's kind of funny because Sam was known as Sir Piggy for a bit I don't know oh yeah he was known as Sir Piggy

so of all the pig boys the battle of the pig boys so yeah maybe he was known as Sir Piggy. So of all the pig boys. The battle of the pig boys. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe he wants to be besties with Sam. Like, they're going to start working together because he's trying to get him to relate with him. Hey, you were, listen, it's not so bad being a Sir Piggy because I'm Pate the Pig Boy, so it's fine. It's all good.

I do think, though, I mean, I'm interested to see those tensions. All jokes aside, I am thinking that there will be some sort of tension of either Sam will be directly at odds with Newpaint, or he will be forced to collaborate with Newpaint when shit hits the fan, which could be weirder. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. How will that story, how will that story play out i don't know it gets interrupted by your own burning everything down so we don't even need to go further than that right that's true well and that's where the collaboration i would say could come in i mean what if the interruption forces them to work together is kind of my, like a buddy cop. Like Pate and Piggy. And then Sam saves his life

and then all of a sudden this Pate same as owing Arya all that shit now is Sam. Gives him three kills. Because also Arya saved them from the fire. And one of them is his dad. Yeah. Wait, what? Oh, okay. Maybe not that. Damn. Three fires he shall know.

So who's the third fire for Pate i don't know that's interesting i don't know i'm also at the point that maybe i believe in lazy leo now because it's just like it was real contrived right so who knows there's a lot in this chapter that i really don't think i saw previously on this read-through a A lot. And every time I went into our notes for it, I figured something else out to think about. So, hats fucking off to George on this one. It's a

killer, literally, of a chapter. Oh! Hey! What do you think? What are your big final thoughts, Nate, on your prologue chapter? I'm so glad that you got to be the star as Nate the Pig Boy. Oh, no. Nate, like.

Love it. Yeah. You have become it. No, I really enjoy. Hats off to George, because like you said, there's it was the same thing for me where I've been, you know, in my over preparation to appear on your show. Same thing for me where I've been, you know, in my over-preparation to appear on your show. I've read this chapter more times in the last three weeks than probably my entire life combined. And, yeah, each time I would find some little thing that stood out to me or I got hung up on. And so I just, I feel like about 80% of it's probably red herrings just there to screw with us. But the amount of detail he packed into it, because it feels like it's one of the shorter prologues compared to, like, Crescent was a freaking novel in itself. And so for being such a short prologue, to be able to cram that much detail, whether it's true or red herring, is just super fun to read.

It's really a good chapter, especially like it's been said throughout the episode to have such that heavy identity theme here going into this book, coming to a head after all the past books and how it's been developing there. It's

exciting to read this chapter starting out fresh and be like oh a whole new place that yeah we're not going to see for a long time yet but a whole new place and this is what's going on here i can't wait to get into this stuff like and it's just really hypes you up to get into the obviously best book of the series yes exactly it is the best book of the series yes that is the energy i'm looking for thank you it's true though because i was just thinking like how do you follow the mammoth that is a storm of swords and this chapter does it you know this chapter grabs you puts you in it and goes all

right anyways back to a feast for crows bitch yeah it's big i love that a feast for crows bitch yeah it's big i love that chloe i know it's big um i know it's big me about a feast for crows yeah i know it's big i do know it's big oh my gosh well we have had such a blast tonight with you nate. Um, I'm hoping that we don't see you too soon here at the Citadel, you know, skulking around with a key in your hand. However, please tell us once more where to find you guys online, uh,

as we get ready for next week with your brother. Yeah, it's, I've, I've had an absolute blast tonight, but you can essentially find us everywhere by checking out our website. Brotherhoodwithout.com. It has links to all the social media platforms,

all your favorite podcasting places to listen. If you'd like to send us emails, we respond very frequently. We like to get our regular inductees to the Brotherhood for each chapter, and those get sent to our email directly, withoutmannersbrotherhood at gmail.com.

Otherwise, find us on twitter facebook we're pretty bad about doing stuff on instagram so you probably could avoid that and you won't miss out on much from us but the other places we're good yeah we don't have an instagram no we have our

personals and we'll keep it that way and what we use as you all know we do use our twitter and you can always find us girls gone canon on twitter at twitter.com slash girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n and of course you can also send us

an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com yeah and make sure you're subscribed to us on a podcast platform near you where you can stream our episodes whether that is apple podcast google podcast stitcher a cast you name it we're over there give it a google we'll come up of course you can always find us on patreon at patreon.com slash girls gone canon where again we have bonus episodes for folks in the stranger tier and above

five dollar and above tier or you can join our discord where we have activities and fun at uh wait sorry in the five dollar okay activities in the thunder tier and above the ten dollar and above tier yes we'll have our brunch later this month on the 28th keep your eyes peeled for some updates about that and uh we'll be having some later this month on the 28th. Keep your eyes peeled for some updates about that. And we'll be having some House of the Dragon discussions going on there as well weekly. So we can't wait for that. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana.

We'll be back next week with Zach from Brotherhood Without Manners, who will probably talk so kindly of his brother. I can't wait to hear it. And hopefully not too kindly of Varamir. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you again, Nate.

Thank you, guys. I really appreciate you having me on.