Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 17 - AFFC Arianne Intro/The Queenmaker

Episode Date: September 7, 2018

 Nobody puts baby in a tower - and Arianne Martell is no exception!    intro by Anton Langhage   https://soundcloud.com/argofox/from-the-dust-journey       Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/   Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor

🎵 Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Episode 17, Ariane Martell Intro and The Queenmaker. I'm Chloe, one of your hosts. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Twitter and on Tumblr. And I'm Eliana, your other host, and you can find me as GlassTableGirl on the Maester Monthly Podcast and on the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit thank you so much for coming back we have a new POV oh we're so excited about Ariane Martel

we are just like beaming right now into each other's webcams we are just grinning we're very proud of what we've made yes this is our child we were just so excited we were like alright this is it child. We were just so excited. We were like, alright, this is it. We birthed Ariane Martel.

I've made this whole point of view. We are so excited to be back with you. If you're listening to this, you may be listening to it on a Wednesday, or a Thursday, or even on the Friday it's released, depending on if you are a patron of ours or not. Small reminder, we did just launch our Patreon this past week. We launched it on September Friday it's released, depending on if you are a patron of ours or not. Small reminder, we did just launch

our Patreon this past week. We launched it on September 1st. Yes, so we have plenty of content coming. And of course, keep an eye out for our Winds of Winter REN chapter episode coming out in the next few weeks, patrons.

And, in case you missed it, LML, aka lucifer means lightbringer does a series called between two weirwoods where he invites other content creators from the song of ice and fire fandom on to talk about various subjects for example he had me and gloria to talk about parenting together with crow's food's daughter recently so this is about two weeks ago now or so by the time this is released he did a between two beer woods with jinx lierre and her friend lola on sex workers and the portrayal of sex work in a song of ice and fire and it's it's an incredible like actually one of the most important pieces of content and one of the best conversations i think

i've seen in the fandom so far so if you haven't checked that out or watched it absolutely do yeah i mean you can only go through so many analysis of you know what did john and sansa look at each other for in the season eight sneak preview two seconds long and you know there's only so much you can get out of what could happen in the winds of winter but there are certain aspects of this in the fandom that haven't been explored and it's great to have it explored by professionals like jinx but knowledge is power uh and by not educating yourself you kind of remain ignorant on it and these ladies that were on with lml know the best so a huge shout out to them for bringing

such great new content something diverse and fun and a little heavy at parts but really educational and a huge shout out to lml per usual for using his platform to make sure these things are heard in the fandom i think that's really important so i appreciate him for being the gateway for that and check out his page you can find him on youtube you can find him on twitter you can find him on lucifer means lightbringer.com so check him out and make sure you check out those wonderful ladies jinx and lola and now that brings us to some not, some notes of note that we've received in the past few weeks.

Thank you so much to everyone who's been leaving us things on iTunes per request. Again, per Eliana's request. Leaving iTunes reviews not only does it, as Chloe says, make me very happy, it also helps people find our podcast.

Happy wife, happy wife. Anyway, so the first one is from Gray Griff, and the title is Good D Dario. And this user has a request for us. Formal request, change Good D Dario to Dank D D dario so you can just say triple d which is i think a pretty good request i kind of want to go between the two but like go back and forth but i like the idea and we'll definitely revisit this idea when we get to the dany chapters oh my gosh you guys are you ready for the return of the good dick dario and strong bell boss uh duh that was without saying another really cool review that we got on itunes is from anya so games love these chicks and of course it had three chiclet emojis in their little shell which uh is pandering to eliana

which she loves these are only for me everyone yep not for me i still don't care yeah she doesn't care at all she doesn't care about uh what shades of silver has said with the title you need this and true shades of silver emphasizes but seriously you need it listen and be complete heart less than heart. That's an important heart. Indeed. Old school. And the last little iTunes review we do want to highlight. And thank you again, you guys, for taking the time to leave these. They're fun. They help people find us.

And Eliana enjoys them. Love the cast from Random TV Ramblings, who says, Come for the great literary analysis. Stay for the strong Belvas puns, which that's the highest of honors right there, I think. It is. And it segues perfectly into this other. I think this was like. This is cool. This is really cool.

Maybe the highlight of my month or something. I like I showed this to my mom and I showed this to my partner. But for me to show it to my mom, that's big. That is big. On Twitter, at Drafturgy, spelled D-R-A-F-T-U-R-G-Y,

says, Thank you, at Averidimetric, your love for the big guy, meaning Belwos, not Argibald. I can, that could be confusing. Just, just.

Yeah, I was a little disappointed. I thought it was going to be Archibald, but continue. I was a little confused because I was like, I'm not the Archibald Stan. Yeah, I know. I was like, excuse me, that's me. Yeah, and then I saw the picture. But anyway, sorry, everyone. We digress.

Anyway, your love for the big guy has inspired me to draw my own version. The Girls Gone Ganon P. Oh, what? Ganon. The Girls Gone Ganon P.O.P. podcast is a blast. Both you and Liza and Arbor work great together, all caught up here. And apparently Drafturgy listens to us and other Aswath podcasts while drawing. And he's made an incredible.

It's so good an incredible strong Belwas picture it has like three Belwai three or four Belwai on it and like a Danny and like he's like airbrushing on it and it's so good it's really good all all three Belwai are the best I want I want how can you get this like on the wiki like it's so good it's really good. All three bell-y are the best. How can we get this on the wiki? It's so good. It is some good art. I am so excited to post that everywhere. In my house. On your face.

On your cat. On your bell-woss. Exactly. And there's a bell-woss in the picture for every one of those. Every one of those areas. Well, we can't just sit around bell-wossing all day, Eliana. These are the puns that you're all here for, you guys.

I don't even know if that was a pun. I think that's just a normal verb. It's not, but it's okay. So, Arianne. Yeah, let's move on into our new point of view character. We will have our belboss patreon episode for his art in the winds of winter as azura high coming out soon uh

but without further ado let's jump on into arien we have a lot to discuss in an overview about arien introduce you to her tell you a bit about the heiress to dorn arianne's chapter like you know as many as with many characters in a song of ice and fire george r martin is deconstructing certain tropes through them um and different storylines and what i love about arianne's character is that the first way that we are introduced to her is through other POVs. And I think that this is extremely important to make her character work in terms of the trope that George R.R. Martin is exploring with her, that we're introduced to her through the lens of the male gaze. Because initially, Ariane is playing that part of what's called a femme fatale.

Yeah, it's a lot different from when we did Ned, for example. From when Ned was initially introduced, he was introduced from Bran and Catelyn, but Ariane is the first female POV that we're covering, and she is introduced from other people as well, but only from the male POV. The transformation of her through kind of the female tropes of fantasy writing are great.

From this femme fatale to the princess in the tower that we get to to the queen you shall be absolutely and we're gonna get into this more later uh when we get to ari's povs but you know george r martin did say in may or something of this year that he actually kind of regrets making Ares O'Cart a POV since he does only really get one chapter. But I think that it's so essential for that introduction and deconstruction of Ariane. Yeah, I think the Ares chapter is essential in seeing both of the sides. It also brings up an interesting meta point on humanity and women in not only A Song of Ice and Fire, but also real life.

We'll break it down a bit more eventually, but Ares sees Arianne as kind of this perfect princess, sensual, the word that I'm going to hate this whole entire time, but exotic, this seductress. And when we see Arianne's chapter, we see something more beneath that service when you read aries's chapters you feel kind of sympathetic for the poor bastard right when you read arianne's you realize aries is an idiot and kind of should have known better i mean

if you look at how old he is which pretty much any kingsguard age that we don't know, you have to base off of the Jamie Lannister rule, right? The youngest Kingsguard age calculation. He was probably at least 16 when he joined the Kingsguard in 290 per, you know, that age calculation. So by the time we reach him, he is guaranteed at least 26, which, of course, I would definitely bet he's older than that irianne of course is in her early 20s she's around 23 24 so their insecurities and their incapabilities kind of match up perfectly in the clash we're about to see you know like axon skin match up perfectly i mean what fits better than a blade slicing through your skin or your head or your arm on your car on your computer on your cat on your bell loss and you know doubling back a little

you know our first impressions of arianne they come through to these two different guards who both came to doran to protect their princess we start start off with Arya Hotha, who gives us a very small glimpse at Arion, and then, again, Arya's Oakheart. So we get only very little from Arya initially, and we see that he regards Arion with this fondness. He thinks of her constantly

and even calls her aloud, my little princess. And while he's loyal to Doran and follows Doran's orders, he also thinks when Doran and follows Doran's orders he also thinks you know when Doran gives him certain orders like a round up the sand snakes internally Arya thinks of how Arianne's going to react and thinks that his little princess will not be glad of it so there's kind of a somewhat paternal relationship between them yeah I love Arya hota chapters first off so everyone can fight me about it everyone gives him so much crap and they're all he's the camera that rides and i love his chapters they

give you so much exposition and world building and i just think it's a really good storytelling that happens there but second off ario was branded and considered trained from Norvos as a slave at age 16 and he ended up entering into the family of Lady Malario's service so he has been present since before Arianne was even like a sperm droplet right like he was probably extremely attached to Lady Malario let alone found himself attached and fond of Arianne as well especially after Malario returned to Norvos there is kind of a weird i would assume a weird relationship there because aria was bought as a slave right for lady malario it's weird things yeah on top of that it's interesting because as well as seeing malario go back to norvos

so he would have seen this little girl that he, you know, at age 16, he began serving her family and began to know Lady Malario. Aria was present the day that Malario met Doran. And when she leaves, when they, you know, separate, that had to have broken Aria's heart. And he probably became really close to Arianne during then as well, which from what we kind of hear it happens you know I mean Arianne was probably a little older at this point than Quentin of course but it happens pretty much when Quentin's really young but we'll get to that

well yeah we will in Aria chapters but for now back to Arianne we get yeah again another perspective of her through Aria's oakheart and i just love the way that george rr martin does this because for several pages we just have ari's like being like self-hating and self-deprecating and he's like visiting this mystery woman we never get her name initially like we start off with just like a she and the woman and like whatever but through dialogue we begin to piece together that this woman's cousins are the sand snakes her father is the prince of dorne and though her name continues to be withheld everything starts coming together and you're like oh yes this is arianne mertel who we only saw from afar before it's only through aries's thoughts on women being stronger

that we finally get arian's name uh characterizing her so aries thinks marcella never shed a tear though it was she who was leaving hearth and home to seal an alliance with her maidenhood the truth was the princess was braver than her brother, and brighter and more confident as well. Her wits were quicker, her courtesies more polished. Nothing ever daunted her, not even Joffrey. The women are the strong ones, truly. Truly!

He was thinking not only of Myrcella, but of her mother and his own, of the Queen of Thorns, of the Red Viper's pretty deadly sand snakes, and of Princess Arianne Martell, her most of all. And we're going to go more into this when we analyze Ares in his POV, but the idea that he's the soiled knight and how Arianne lures him and seduces him in this chapter characterizes her it shows her as dangerous which is of course a key feature of the femme fatale she's playing the role of a seductress and we also learn more about her plans and ambitions as she lures the quote-unquote hero because you know white knight uh to sin and she's using her body and her quote-unquote feminine wiles to finally convince Ares to hand

over his precious princess Myrcella and that's also creating a dichotomy between that femme fatale and the damsel in distress which is so often present as like a tension or a decision that the quote-unquote hero has to make yeah Ares often thinks of her as being so exotic, another key feature of the femme fatale, although it's kind of problematic on a portrayal of people of color in the story,

especially when we're down to very few, as we've seen. Ares thinks on how different and hot-blooded the Dornish are, which he attributes to their food, which is a little... It's weird. Okay, eating spicy food doesn't just...

It doesn't just make you, like, from a place. That's not how food works, actually. You know, but whatever. All these problematic thoughts also paired with the idea that, aries's family has been fighting dornish forever for thousands of years it makes it a really interesting combination of like the forbidden exotic erotic fruit trope right like oh i can't love you because you're brown and our families have gone to war for centuries and you're a sexy vixen and i am but a noble good knight you know and it makes this like sense of i'm better than you i'm good and you're bad and i can't be with you kind of thing right yeah and it lends

credence like why are the king's guard like this these guys like why oh yeah that's why because they're from the king's guard because they willingly entered a vow of celibacy. Yeah, it's like vow cell, not in cell. I think that's such a great point that you raise of how it's even more

of that forbidden fruit because of that rivalry between House Oakheart and Dornean so i love that you pointed that out and of course there's that other key feature of the femme fatale which like she leads men to their doom and i think there's something that there gives me pause like of to what extent is george actually deconstructing and interrogating this trope is he doing it enough considering that arianne does kind of fit that to a t and maybe maybe that's like it's probably intentional but it is something that i do want to keep at the back of our minds as we go through

these chapters of like is george doing enough yeah um something i think that rounds arianne as a character out and not just a straight up you know femme fatale wank fantasy brown goddess you know is we do get her point of view right so confidence is very sexy which when you watch through aries's chapter it's very hinted at that she's sexy but we also see how insecure Arianne is in her point of view. It comes off more as vulnerability or a tactic to kind of get on Ares's side to get him to, you know, fend over Myrcella, but, and that's not entirely untrue, but we also actually see Arianne having those vulnerabilities and insecurities, feeling like she's been living in the shadow

of her brother and feeling uneasy when she thinks about how she fantasized about her uncle as a little girl, right? And along with all of that, I kind of love this other trope that Ariane fulfills. It's kind of low key because you forget about it for a little bit because we see Ariane in the present so much, but she's also the story of the ugly duckling. the present so much but she's also the story of the ugly duckling and obviously arianne has physically become quite the swan yeah and that feeds into a lot of those insecurities i mean as a child she remembers being pudgy and flat-breasted and nothing like princesses should be in her mind you know but she blossomed into this sensual and curvaceous woman whose wiles

are obviously stronger than she realizes, as they can get many a men killed, led to their doom. There's also something to say in this about how men kind of view women and how they expect women to be, you know, these frail, fragile, vulnerable young flowers. They expect women to be girls. They want to save girls. They want to get them from the tower with the dragon. However, they also want women to be sensual and sexy and confident and kind of able to choose their future. It does.

And I really like this idea that you've brought up. They want women to be that damsel in the tower that they save. And as we see in Ariane's chapters, like, she is going to be that princess in the tower, but there's no hero coming to save her. She has to be the one who I guess eventually somehow learns. Yeah, agreed. somehow learns yeah agreed like i don't know whenever her dad like decides to let her out which is kind of shitty but there's no hero coming for her and she very much feels like she has to be the hero in her story yeah she feels extremely slighted and she kind of decides she has to make her own way and she almost decides that without like i mean she's pushed to it she decides that but she also uses her sexuality a lot to replace some of these lost years of self-esteem that we hear about and of course to replace the hollow feeling in kind of failing to

live up to her younger brother's shadow we're also talking like about a little girl who used to pray to the seven to be beautiful every day which kind of signifies she too probably believed in songs and stories like sansa start or like quentin martel her brother and we can see this in the upcoming chapter when they write out on their adventure while arianne's ambition is definitely one of her most defining characteristics, because we are doing this POV on the heels of Quentin's chapters, I also think there's something to be said here about how both Arianne and Quentin are... Both of them are characterized by their insecurity. And I'm not saying that Doran is the worst father, not at all by far. He definitely does a disservice to both

of his children i don't know how he is with tristane like tristane seems fine he's playing chess and but he unintentionally feeds the insecurity of his two eldest like for quentin part of it was that distance both physically and emotionally like sure there are natural constraints like being fostered in a medieval fantasy setting and not having phones or glass candles that actually work out so Quentin and Doran don't end up having a close relationship and the only relationship that Quentin has to his father especially since that young age is serving him as this pawn in his plans. Like first he plays coin to house Ironwood. This is how he can be helpful.

And then he must suddenly be the dragon's suitor. And it's the only way he knows how to interact with his father by trying to live up to those expectations and fulfill those plans because they didn't have that real relationship for Dorne to reassure Quentyn of his worthiness. And of course that distance between Quentyn and Dorne has caused resentment to build up for Arianne. About Quentyn, that he plots to steal her chair, that he would even think.

She goes as far to examine how she would plan her attack in war on the Ironwoods. Those are some intense resentful feelings from his distance alone for sure and it's caused by that emotional distance and that lack of trust that doran has for his daughter like that's what creates that misunderstanding where arian thinks doran wants to replace him when in reality it's not that Doran doesn't believe in Arian. He in fact has very high hopes for her. In fact had Viserys stayed

alive I think Arian would have played all of the roles very well. But like I mean he had high ambitions for all of his kids like one of them is going to be a dragon consort or either of them depending on how things fall and then we have tristane who's like having this the cutest little romance ish or budding romance maybe with marcella who's also a princess he's kind of living in that fantasy of

someday get it it's gonna come back exactly exactly and he's doing it through his kids and because he doesn't actually communicate with arianne about his plans it causes those feelings of unworthiness on her part and doran was too afraid because he had all these plans in his head to put in the legwork of trusting his daughter and believing that she could learn i think that's also the point that you raised, Chloe, about Quentin living far away with the Ironwoods. It lends a lot of credence to Ned's strategy when he raised Jon Snow. And that physical distance created that emotional distance between Arianne and Quentin. And it allows those feelings of resentment to fester

and I wonder like had Arianne and Quentin been raised together there could have been more of an opportunity for them to really feel like those blood ties between them and like really feel those familial bonds be able to work through things and you can see how this works because like raising John as a Stark created those same bonds like even though john as a child like fantasized about inheriting winterfell because he didn't know any better he would have never done that and he said to rob and he says as much also when stannis offers him winterfell when it comes to sansa because they were raised in the same place together he's like no winterfell is sansa's but of course you know john also feels like unworthy of many things but that was a smart move on ned's part it makes it difficult to betray

someone that you love as blood and family they also lens creams like i've always thought you know the smartest move would have been letting john be fostered at starfall i mean that's right there is the easiest move. You have people that obviously know what the heck is happening, as we know. The Danes know stuff. They know stuff. They know more than we do. The Danes know more than we do. And it just would have been so easy to deal

with, and so easy with, you know, to just shove it off and say, look, you want to deal with this prince baby? That's what counts. He's like, look, I made you this. I didn't, but... Yeah. Someone made this.

To wrap up our overview before we jump into Ariane's first chapter, just a quick note that I find exciting about the Dornish chapters, about Quentin and Ariane. First of all, RIP again, Quentin Martell, because for me, this is something that matters. Like, Quentin was that was a pov and now he's dead and so now arianne not only is she our only like female person of color like pov she's our only she's our only pov of color so i find that noteworthy especially in this this world that George R. R. Martin has crafted and who he's chosen to focus the lens on.

Though, in that May panel that I brought up earlier where he says he regrets making Ares a POV, it seems like he's changed his tune a little on having a Dothraki POV. Seems like he's changed his tune a little on having a Dothraki POV. And that he maybe somewhat regrets not having done it a little either, but... It's probably still not happening. And, I mean, she's gonna die, too. So, soon it's just gonna be the whites. Oh, is that a pun?

For you, it could've been. I like to think it was a pun. I mean, just, like, also, right? The others? Alright, and that brings us to our lightning round. Yeah, so, like we did last chapter, in the last couple chapters, we're just gonna talk about the chapters

between beginning of Feast for Crows and this Arianne chapter that has to do with that chapter. So there are two chapters. The first chapter is the Captain of Guards. I would like to point out I didn't realize it was Captain of Guards. Yeah, same.

I didn't realize it wasn't until you were bringing up that you just learned it today. I was like, I too have learned that just now. This moment in which you brought it up is the first moment. So I guess, aesthetically, I think George should have put a the there, but maybe made it the guard. I don't know. Maybe my brain is just, whatever. In Captain of Guards, see, I tried to say it.

I tried so hard and I heard the start to slip out. See, I tried to say it. I tried so hard and I heard the start slip out. In The Captain of Guards, Prince Doran watches the children play in the water gardens and Eryohotah guards over him. The sand snakes are introduced, wanting vengeance on the Lannisters and threatening an uprising in Sunspear. Doran rounds up the snakes, confining them to the Spear Tower and Ellaria and the young snakes in the water gardens after returning to Sunspear, greeted by Arianne and Tyene. Then of course we get the Soiled Knight. Alone, Kingsguard from the

Reach finds himself in several unlikely situations. In Dorne and in love. He finds himself seduced repeatedly by Aeris, Paris Hilton, A Ariane Martel. Consumed with guilt, he is eventually swayed by her charm, wit, and responsive large brown nipples into helping crown Marcella Baratheon. Oh my god, Chloe.

And this all brings us to the Queenmaker. Two princesses set out on a journey to turn one into a queen. With their party, they cross the harsh sands of Dorne only to find their plans betrayed to a snitch. Or are they? Ending in ruin and death. So the Queenmaker opens up in southeastern dorne at shandy stone an abandoned holdfast with the sun blazing down on everyone we learn that that water is like gold and dorne and all

of the wells are very well guarded. But the well at Shandystone has gone dry hundreds of years before. So that means that the guardians abandoned their posts, and the sands swallowed them up whole. We open Arianne's chapter on these ruins, on rubble, on death and dehydration, which of course is pretty likely what we could actually close on as well in her chapters. Ariane Martell, Dre, and Silva all arrive in Shandystone, which kind of sounds like a beer.

I was thinking the same thing. I do like shandies. With the west a tapestry of gold and purple and the clouds all glowing crimson. The ruins seemed to glow as well. The fallen columns glimmered pinkly, red shadows crept across the cracked stone floors, and the sands themselves turned from gold to orange to purple as the light faded. Garin had arrived a few hours earlier and the knight called Darkstar the day before. Dre and Garen water the horses.

They're also the pip and grun of this storyline. The sand steeds of Dorne are swift and tireless, but no creature can survive in the desert without water, except for maybe camels, but we don't have those. Arianne recalls coming to Shandystone with some of the sand snakes, Tyene and Sorella, and her uncle Oberyn when they were all younger. Oberyn taught Tyene the safest way to milk vipers for their venom. This is a great character building moment, since of course in Captain of Guards we see Tyene, and she is immediately associated with poison,

with checking Doran's hands to see for pricks from the needle. It also gives us a great look at Oberyn as a father, why he was kind of like, almost like the Ned of the South in a way. I guess Doran really fits the bill more, but a bit inverted for Oberyn of that situation. He raised his bastards proudly, compared to Ned, who hid his bastard away. Ish. So, a few different snags yeah i mean he pretty

much put him on display so yeah as far as like catalan and cersei are concerned and then the other sand snake sorella sought the history of the people who lived in those ruins and she would turn over rocks to find mosaics and be studying which i think sorella being interested in this aspect of history and studying is a clue for us to understand that aleris over at the citadel doing book lord and things is actually sorella and i like that just from these two small lines we get this differentiation and this characterization of different sand snakes wait there are different sand snakes oh my god also like while we're here can i just love that one comic of hiss with me sisters when asked what they did when they were by the well uh by spotted silva arianne, I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber

knight, what, had brought me here to have his way with me, she thought. A tall, hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak. The memory made her uneasy. I dreamed, she said, and when the sun went down, I sat

cross-legged at my uncle's feet and begged him for a story. Arianne definitely bangs out Darkstar, like before this starts. So jot that down, like before this chapter even happens, it's pretty much confirmed. She and Darkstar got jiggy. There's the app, the World of Ice and Fire app you can get for Android and for iStore or iTunes, etc. Yeah, yes. A lot of it is put together by Elio and Linda

and it's basically semi-canonical because they're putting in things that they know from George. So Arianne fucked Darkstar is what I'm saying. Yeah, I always thought that was kind of clear. Garen

then recounts a story that Prince Oberyn once told him, and that Oberyn was full of stories. Garen had also been at the ruins of Shandystone that day, and he was Arian's milk brother. They have been inseparable since childhood.

There's a lot of childhood friend kind of bits in here, just like Quentin growing up with Cletus, Archibald, and Jairus. Oberyn had told him of Prince Garen the Great, the wonder of the Roin. Garen led 250,000 to their deaths while trying to stop the Valyrians in the Second Spice War. So in lore, Volantis and Valyria, after this, hung Garen in a golden cage. He called upon the mother Rhoyne to destroy them, and the Valyrians and the Volantine mocked him. That night, waters came, and the invaders of the Croyane were drowned.

Some say his curse is what brought the great doom of Valyria. It's said that the drowned conqueror's breath rises to make the fogs around the sorrows and their flesh is stone some also believe garen rose to become the shrouded lord the original garen of course there's also a bravosi play called the wrath of the dragon lords that has prince garen making a glorious speech the night before battle i also think it's interesting to note how much of this might have been semi-canonically true or whatever based on the direction George R. R. Martin almost went with Tyrion's chapters.

He almost had that Shrouded Lord chapter where I guess Tyrion would have actually interacted with a Shrouded Lord, but he decided that he didn't want... You mean with Jeryon? I'm just kidding. That he decided he didn't want to do that. I think that was a good decision uh not having tyrian communicate with whatever the shrouded lord was uh while going

down the line but i think that while i'm thinking about things because that's what we do i guess here um had feast and dance been one book i think there would have been some really fun juxtaposition between like those chapters with tyrian actually being on the roin and sealing it uh itself versus these descriptions of like the roinar descendants in sandy dorn garen goes on to claim that prince garen made valeria tremble but sir gerald darkstar busts in saying valeria trembled then they killed him if i led a quarter of a million men to death would they call me gerald the great i shall remain dark star i think at least it is mine own which i love that line because if i led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerald the Great? Is that foreshadowing

of the Dornish plot in the future? I mean, I guess. I don't think they're gonna call him Gerald the Great. Also, they probably won't have a quarter of a million, so. People. Yeah, and I'm surprised anyone fucking has agreed to call him Darkstar. He gave himself that name. You know?

You don't give yourself nicknames. I agree. That's not... That's the lamest thing you can do. Someone's gotta gift you a name and he gave himself... He's like, I call myself Darkstar. I'm like, okay. Anyways.

Yo, this is my friend Darkstar. I wonder if Arianne's the only one who calls him Darkstar uh Arianne watches Darkstar cautiously and she thinks about how he would make a worthy consort I mean she goes father would question my good sense but our children would be

as beautiful as dragon lords which of course is such a big shout about Aegon Aegon Aegon Arianon! Aegon! Arianne likes pretty boys! Arianne likes pretty boys! She does.

We're gonna dig into how Georges really let us down. I bet. If there was a handsomer man in Dorne, she did not know him. Ser Gerald Dane had an aquiline nose, high cheekbones, and a strong jaw. He kept his face clean-shaven, but his thick hair fell to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black.

He has a cruel mouth, though, and a crueler tongue. His eyes seemed as black as he sat outlined against the dying sun sharpening his steel. But she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew that they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry. Like his dick.

Oh my god. I mean, that's what that was going for right she just didn't say veiny yeah she's not talking about his eyes i mean he has a cruel mouth though and a crueler tongue again they obviously hooked up dude that's that's what that means i like i like to think he at least goes down which you know that's what it sounds like good for him exactly but also is it good for i mean shouldn't this be the like this should be the baseline standard we're holding no absolutely so like when i say good for him like congrats on being human bro yeah i'm being decent all right so there's a lot to unpack here first

off arianne's pretty boy complex and her uncle fantasies are totally clashy and combining here, confirming that yeah, she fucked Darkstar. Noting her lust in Darkstar's vanity, it brings back kind of this quote of Illyrio's statue from A Dance with Dragons, and if Illyrio may or may not be Aegon's dad,

this description would fit well, depending on what theory you subscribe to. A naked boy stood on the water poised to duel with a bravo's blade in hand he was lithe and handsome no older than 16 with straight blonde hair that brushed his shoulders so lifelike did he seem that it took the dwarf a long moment to realize he was of painted marble though his sword shimmered like true steel. Also, Lyrio keeps Sera's hands, he has a statue of himself, he wants Aegon to live. Come on. Anyway.

I think that's a really interesting comparison because of the whole hair falling like a silver glacier, and that statue having the long really wild description that we get. For sure. And I mean, the hair's longer but basically arian's into frosted tips you know yeah but i mean she has a type and we can see that in this chapter and

it's showing that there is going to be that spark between probably arian and agon although there was a comment adam feldman left it there was was a thread on Reddit a while ago about like, what cringeworthy passages are you going to read in the winds of winter? And he left a comment about, it was about Ariane and Aegon hooking up for the first time and like how like him like spilling his seed in her hand too early or some crap and all this. And I was howling. You have to try to find

this comment sometime because it was just It's amazing. It was well written and it was totally legit. I was like, this is the best thing I've ever read. Ever. Because, like, of course Agon's probably so inexperienced in the bedroom. When has Adam Feldman not written the best thing

we've ever read? That's true. That's true. That's true. You have a point. She has a great point, ladies and gentlemen. We've now become an Adam Feldman podcast only. So episode one of the nearness. Anyways, Darkstar looks up from shining his sword and smiles at Ariane, who immediately flushes and she feels hot for queen slaying teacher he's not even a good queen slaying teacher if he gives me such a look when aries is here

we will have blood on the sand whose she could not say by tradition the king Kingsguard were the finest knights in all the Seven Kingdoms. But Darkstar was Darkstar. Yeah. There's gotta, yeah. Good for her, though. But I mean, like. No, I, yeah. She's got a good list.

She's got a good list, you know? Like. Yeah, she does. I i mean that's the thing is they're all tens for the most part i mean even dark stars okay i guess to some people in bed maybe and that's the goal right to be dark star in bed no to have all tens yeah i do love that you know she thinks oh if he looks at me like that when Ares is here. But also it's like, there's bound to be blood on the sand anyways. You're literally, this mission is totally like a suicide mission for someone. At least someone.

You were never going to get away with it. Like, let's be real. For sure. And it's just looming over this entire thing. Like, the more we hear about this plan, as with all of the other ones, like, as we've talked about in previous casts like you know it's not gonna work because she keeps telling you the plan and you're like obviously based on the rule of how drama works they're not gonna show you exactly what you know is gonna happen george is trying to dark star in the beginning of this chapter for us

you know kind of trying to i don't know make him scary and make him kind of like intimidating and I'm of the night and all this. But he kind of turned out a little too try hard, right? He was some Batman pretty guy. He just turned out into a joke. And the fandom's response to him was just very cartoony. And I feel like a lot of the characters in Dorne can come off kind of cartoonist in a way from George. Yes the show was ridiculous and awful and flatlined all these characters but George doesn't really lay the best foundation in general. This plot really starts getting its depth in A Feast for Crows and it's really not hard to cartoonify Dorne. Some of it can come off a little fetishized and, you know,

you get that Arabian Nights exotic feel of the Arianne chapter with Aerys, or sorry, the Aerys chapter with Arianne. We'll probably get into it a lot more in the next chapter, but it's just some food for thought that, you know, Darkstar kind of

came off as a cartoon and a lot of the characters can come off cartoony in this arc however it is like one of my favorite arcs same i there's a lot of things that i find problematic about it like you said about how he exoticizes dorn a lot and he's like oh so sexual they're all bisexual like okay that's where all the bisexuals in the world went let's just all move to dorn here we go for it to only be dorn is like it's a little weird i mean they have the spicy food i guess so why not but there's all of that and like as you were saying about dark star so on a meta level

we know that george has said that his goal with dark star is he wanted to recapture some of the popularity and evoke some of the same things behind how much people loved oberyn martell and uh obviously that didn't work uh that fell flat. But it's interesting that he, if we want to talk a little bit about, you know, what was it that made Oberyn Martell so successful? And I think that it's kind of interesting now to think about this idea that he was trying to recreate that sort of template, maybe. maybe because as you said, Arianne's attraction to dark stars, Arianne's attraction to Oberyn earlier and her fantasizing about him is hinting at her sleeping with dark star. Yeah.

It's, I guess a big part of it too with Oberyn is I think the characters that we received him through, we had him through Tyrion, which while some Tyrion chapters for me in like a dance of dragons could drag a little bit because he's just so like tyrian and dance of dragons at that point uh sometimes it's good and bitter but sometimes it's like slow and bitter and you're like we get it you hate your family you want to rape your sister and murder her like chill out

tyrian uh but in a storm of swords that kind of point of view with paired with Oberyn that sharp wit that Oberyn's kind of you know you just can see him slink around and him be the red viper and he has this like legendary you know amount of hype that gets built up around him before he shows up and I don't think George had enough time to build Darkstar up and I don't think that Darkstar has the right history to be built as a Oberyn, Dorne, 2.0 kind of thing. I think that what you've described behind

the failings of Darkstar, maybe that's kind of the failings behind why Dorne itself can feel a little flat because yeah, we didn't have enough time we're getting to it much later in the story and we're getting it through a less amount of povs and because of that we're suddenly introduced to a large amount of characters whereas when we have you know a game of thrones a clash of kings and

storm of swords like we have a lot of different povs and thus perspectives to flesh out a all of those characters and then b flesh out all the other characters around them yeah by this time you're thinking oh it's so sad over and died i guess and ellia died a while ago and that was sad too exactly and that's that's it there's no build-up where the first three books you're thinking wow like reiger clagain tore ellia martel in half you know with his sword like after he raped her like that's awful he smashed agon on the wall it doesn't have when fake agon shows back up it doesn't really have that power that impact whether or not it is a switch baby whether or not we know you don't sit there and think like well that's so sad i loved a god the martell's rayar targaryen son you don't think that anymore it's just been a long time since that constant build-up and everyone's point of view was mentioned

here and there so i think you've just touched on something like you were talking about all of these motivations right behind the dornish vengeance but i think that might be something that makes ober and martel so much more compelling than dark star he has an actually a backstory he has a part he has a backstory and he has a personal connection that we would perceive as noble it's a desire for justice it's not just vengeance it's justice for ellia and i think that's more compelling than dark star's like angst yeah dark star's angst and how even in this chapter as we're getting too soon it comes off as just oh they only ever remember my cousin the sword of the

morning or the girl that killed herself yeah and there's just no connection and he's not even like a real Dane he's a secondary Dane he doesn't even go here he lives in High Hermitage he's not staying at Starfall some of those Lannisport Lannisters Dre builds a fire and they all sit around the fire

passing a skin of wine back and forth Darkstar does not drink the wine. He drinks unsweetened lemon water, because he's edgy. Garim entertains with tales from Plankytown, where trading galleys, cogs, and carobs meet at the Greenblood's mouth. They learn of several things, like the slave revolt in Astapor, dragons in Qarth, Grey Plague in Yeeti, the new Corsair King in the Basilisk Isles who raided Talltree's town, and Kohor, followers of the Red Priests, rioted, trying to burn down the Black Goat.

And then, of course, they learn. And then, of course, they talk about the Golden Company breaking its contract with Myr. Just as Myrmen were about to go to war with Lys, Lysene bought them off. Drae calls them Clever and Craven. true because we know that the first two right about the slave revolt and astafor and dragons and parks we know that those are true because like we were fucking there in danny's chapters and along with that hint that the golden company has in fact defected just hinting at agon and thus tying it into arian's storyline even from this point i just want to go on this tangent and think about this idea of that gray plague spreading in Yi Ti. I think that's really interesting as a parallel to what we can expect to happen in the books.

Because while the TV show kind of hand-waved it away and took care of it right away, greyscale looms very large in the Asanga Bison Fire books. Though the gray plague isn't exactly the same same it's known also as the gray death it's a disease that like grayscale turns its victims to stone but it occurs much faster and of course we have this historical like fact where like the gray plague it hit old town when paicel was still very young which must have been like forever ago and it decimated the city's population yes and it led to some really fucked up shit like happening like lord quentin hightower had to take extreme measures he locked down the city in order to prevent it spreading to the rest of ross and he burned ships and of course speaking of alerio

from earlier apparently gray plague supposedly is what took his wife sarah so just like westeros the rest of the world is probably like totally fucked and then you know there's more of that unrest that we're hearing of in essos like the collapse of the slave because that comes as a result of that collapse of the slave trade and of course danny's conquest providing that hope for many of the slaves and is lighting the fire for some of these revolts and I think that this I don't know if it's going to come into play later on but this Corsair King is an interesting detail

because we might have heard of this same guy from D&E's chapter yeah and we heard about him maybe like in the D&E chapters with like he was apparently interested in purchasing Unsullied but like if he's like if this Corsair has

gotten some power in the Basilisk Isles like someone who was interested in purchasing Unsullied like likely the same person I don't know if this how this is going to work out if it will come back and then of course those revolts in Qohor and we're likely to see that in some of the other free cities yeah absolutely especially with the acceleration and introduction of And we're likely to see that in some of the other free cities. Yeah, absolutely.

Especially with the acceleration and introduction of more and more red priests and priestesses in the story. Like, we meet Makoro, and of course there's Marwyn the Mage, who is, in general, a wizard. Very. Ariane, though, has more knowledge than them all. She's actually very bright. She thinks, if Quentin has the Golden Company behind him. Beneath the gold, the bitter steel was their cry. You will need bitter steel and more, brother, if you think to set me aside. Arianne was loved in Dorne, Quentin little known. No company of sellswords could change that.

company of sellswords could change that. Arianne's touching on something important here that of this idea of Arianne being loved and adored and Quentin little known. And this We even see it when we go to Sunspear. Oh yeah for sure. And I think

that's a dynamic that's going to be touched on of course in Wins. How well liked a political figure is versus one who is little known so it's a good observation on her part while Arianne is in her thoughts about the Golden Company Sir Gerald rises

to go take a piss and Dre warns him to watch his feet because Oberyn's been gone, which means that the local vipers aren't burping have yet to be have not been milked

Darkstar comments though that he was weaned on venom and that any viper that bites him would regret it afterward Man, George tried but just like the vipers the people did not bite hey this chapter literally has so much build up to dark star meaning something to him to be a force to be reckoned with and i don't know hot take i do hope it's obara that kills ario hota and not dark star and wins because you know hota's gotta die they gotta

they gotta cut down another pov come on and for sure and i don't know god dark star just like sucks like he's not he doesn't deserve to kill hota he's so lame it's holy as he bags off the group brings their concerns to arianne a Arianne, Darkstar is shady, and also kind of a dick. Yeah, everyone's instincts are not off. But I guess Arianne decides to remind them all that we need him, his sword.

Yeah, his sword, right? And his castle. His sword. Silver, though, reminds her that High Hermitage is not the only castle in Dorne. Yeah, there's like Starfall. And that she has other knights who love her, like Dre, who's also a knight.

She leaves all of them to their banter and thinks about her friendship with Garen, Sylva, and Tyene, and how Garen has been teasing her since they were milk siblings. But she's not in the mood to joke, so Arianne leans back against the fluted pillar and wonders if Quentin is looking at the same stars

and saw the same scene in an American tale. Do you see the white one, Quentin? That is Nymeria's star, burning bright in that milky van behind her. Those are ten thousand ships. She burned as bright as any man, and so shall I. You will not rob me of my birthright so of course arianne is sounding kind of a bit like cersei in some of these internal monologues and it has to be a testament to the great character writing george does because for all that arianne kind of does in her delusions which these delusions are a bit rightfully gained for

sure especially in relation to the letter that she reads as a child, which we'll get into in the next couple chapters here. Or chapter, I should say. She could come off as a villain incredibly easy if he hadn't set the Martells up as the injured good guys who just kind of want vengeance for their family. But as we hear from Ellaria in the future, just how far will your vengeance go? If you keep on pushing, it may blow up in your face. Get it? I get it.

See what I did there? It'll blow up in your face? Like dragons. Or like wildfire and dragons? Oh yeah, that too. Both. Like King's Landing? Anyways.

I think that's a good observation on your part of how he's towing that line between villain because the femme fatale very much, like, sometimes they're sympathetic but a lot of times they are portrayed as a villain. So, I think that's a good point.

We also get some insight from arianne on quentin's fostering he had been very young when he was sent to the iron woods and malario actually calls it too young because of course the nervosi culturally they don't foster their children out i like it no more than you do arianne had overheard her father say. But there is a blood debt, and Quentin is the only coin Lord Ormond will accept. Coin? her mother had screamed. He is your son, but sort of father uses his own flesh and blood to pay his debts. The princely sort, Doran Martell had answered. Doran Martell had answered.

From this information, Arianna's saying that Quentin had been very young in her eyes when he was sent to Ironwood. So, Malario calls her young because her people don't foster out at all. And it kind of seems from this and from what he's said since he's about 18 years old in a dance with dragons that Quentin was fostered out probably somewhere in the five to nine range probably before age 10 11 or 12 very young because it was for a blood debt between Oberyn and Lord Ormond I mean it wouldn't surprise me that he was gone from maybe age six or seven and till 18 I mean that's 11 years of not knowing your family and those are very formative years of growing especially for boys he's a completely different person now than he was then for sure for sure i think oh yeah absolutely and it like has as you said a huge impact on his upbringing and you can see it in his povs like who he thinks of as family and who he thinks of like every moment and i think

that you're right it's between like that five six seven range for me just because like we get some talk of bran and Robert Arryn being fostered out in, like, A Game of Thrones or, like, talks of how they're of an age and they're, like, seven, eight, and nine. Yeah. Yeah.

Eight, seven. Yeah. And that's about normal in Jets, like, for girls, you know, betrothal ages around 12, 13, 14. Messy stuff. Yeah. Doran is still pretending that Quentin was with Lord Ironwood.

Garin's mother had seen Quent at Plankytown, which we also saw him there. He was posing as a merchant. And, of course, they comment that one of his companions has a lazy eye which Cletus has I think that these are kind of like a fun fact along with Garen using the word Randy to describe Cletus like these are details about Cletus that we didn't get like not in those words like from Quentin chapters to be fair we do know that Cletus was Randy because of course when he told quentin that this will be a tale to tell our grandchildren will made a face instead of tale to tell

tavern wenches you mean in hopes they'll lift their skirts cletus had slapped him on the back for grandchildren you need children for children you need lifts so for me i see like randy a little differently i feel like for me i uh associate the word randy with like following through and like sealing the deal you know whereas like i read that line like cletus is like thirsty you know what i mean do you see the difference i get that i just read randy in my head between those that's fair i think i might have just been like reading it differently maybe whatever i mean really there's no wrong way to read. The point is, Cletus.

Cletus is Randy. So other people that were seen with him was, of course, a maester skilled in tongues with what we know is Maester Kedri. Arianne thinks that a clever man would have left from old town to remain unrecognized arianne has friends and ears around planky town and they have grown curious as to why a prince and a lord's son were traveling under pseudonyms seeking travel across the narrow sea she even has garen's cousin creep in through quinton's window and find the scrolls that he carries in a little box, but they were sealed with Doran's seal, the Sun and Spear of Dorne.

I mean, Arian's not wrong, though. Quentin should have left Westeros from a more inconspicuous port, which goes to show how poorly thought out this plan was on the part of quentin and doran they literally walked up and down the ports going like can someone give us a ride hey like hitchhiking i don't guys this also brings up how interesting it is that arianne's adventure is in a feast for crows and that quentin's is spread among a dance with dragons from the very beginning toward the very end us reading it kind of backwards like this as we do this pov is blowing my mind honestly we're catching a lot of really interesting stuff yeah i'm so excited this is really good i'm so happy right now arkstar returns from his peeing uh oh yeah that was happening i know it took so long

what a long like four pages of Google Doc piss. Come on, Darkstar. I love this line where it said he was half in starlight and half in shadow. I just think it's kind of like a cool line, if only it wasn't about Darkstar. It's very Quaith-like. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So, you know, because the Shard name is Quaith, so. Arianne asks how his pee was, which, that's relatable

because, like, when people come back from the bathroom, you've just been like, how was your pee? I do ask people sometimes when they come back from the bathroom, like, how was it? How are you? How do you- yeah, like, how do you feel? Was it good? Do you feel great now? Do you feel relieved? I want- I want a positive

Darkstar remarks that the dry ass Sand was very grateful for his piss So I'm like oh that's good Yeah It's a mood And then he tells Arianne that as he pissed He realized That maybe this plan is not going to lead to whatever she wants.

And so Arianne turns it on him, I guess, and she asks him, what do you think I want? The Sand Snakes freed. Vengeance for Oberyn and Elia. Do I know the song? You want a little taste of lion blood that and my birthright i want sunspear and my father's seat i want dorn i want justice so we know what arianne wants and it doesn't actually line up with some of the things that dark star says not entirely like ultimately arianne wants her birthright and arianne doesn't really want to taste the lion's blood well not not marcella's anyway so this gives us a little bit of a clue as to what dark star's motivations are he's telling

us in the guise of it being arianne's desires which should of course tip us off as to like how he feels about marcella and her lion's blood and perhaps his appetite for it yeah it's funny that everyone around her blood dark star the sands she just wants her dad to tell her she's the heiress of dorn and mean it you know dark star goes on to tell arianne that crowning marcella is a hollow gesture she will never sit on the iron throne and they will never sit on the Iron Throne, and they will never get the war they want. The lion is not so easily provoked. Ariane thinks Cersei could be swayed to pick Myrcella over Tommen,

and Geralt raises his sword. It glimmered in the starlight sharp as lies. This is how you start a war. Not with a crown of gold, but with a blade of steel. Other things, I mean, especially with what's to come, as far as wars, are going to be started with the crown by saying someone is a king

when they do not have the correct right or the correct title to it. I would raise a counterpoint, though, that I don't think that Dirkstar is entirely wrong in this point like the war of the five kings started ultimately because of Ned Stark's death the north seceded and crowned Robb King in response to Ned being executed and while it's like not a blade of steel the idea of bloodshed being a catalyst for war isn't necessarily untrue. We've been talking about how Quentyn's death is going to probably push Doran to have Doran side with Aegon.

And I think this is very much in line with what Darksar has just said. Yeah, and I do think to an extent that will be a big thing to push doran to have doran side with agon but i actually especially after rereading these chapters i think that more than anything arianne is totally going to pull the trigger before doran even says yes especially from her actions with dark star with aries i mean i do think once doran gets the bones it's completely game over all in. But it's kind of like this plot in season 7 of Parks and Rec, which you don't know.

And that's okay. You're basic. You're basic. I know that reference. Good. One of the other best shows ever. Arianne immediately thinks so, that she's not a murderer of children. Which, like, Arianne, you're literally going to lead

to the direct death of Myrcella Baratheon, nay Lannister in the Winter. You may not be a murderer of children in your mind but you are. This is you know a mood in Dorne like cause Dorne's all like oh I didn't want the children to die as I watch the children

in the water gardens. Well too bad! Everyone's gonna die. They're all gonna die as I watch the children in the water gardens. Well, too bad! Everyone's gonna die! They're all gonna die. Those rotting oranges? Those are children. Those are children. Splash, splash, splash on the ground. This, of course, further highlights that Arianne's motivation wasn't to enter egalitarianism,

but really just her own ambition. Yeah, of course, the snakes grab onto it for all different reasons mostly resulting in vengeance for obrin but they also kind of pushes gender egalitarianism like we're gonna see a lot of that from namaria i think in the wind's winner so then arianne tells dark star that marcella is under her protection and also Ahri's Okhards, which I've never heard anyone ever say something like that before, and Darkstar remarks that the Danes have been killing Okhards for thousands of years, to which Arianne retorts in warning at his arrogance that the Okhards have actually been killing the Danes for just as long. A decent burn, and they are cut short by Ahri's andrcella's arrival. Ares in his billowing white cloak on a grey steed, and Myrcella riding Pillion behind him, cowled with her golden curls hidden. As Ser Ares de-horses and helps Myrcella down from her saddle, Dre kneels, calling her Your Grace, and Spotted Silva joins him, referring to Myrcella as her Lady Liege.

Garen drops to his knees as well, telling her, my queen, I am your man. Myrcella is confused and clutches at Aerys' arm, asking where they are and who these strange people saying weird stuff are, because in case you forgot, she's like, innocent and wonderful and cute and 11 years old,

and you guys, this is my poor daughter, and I love her so much, and she deserves so much better than her whole life. She didn't ask to be born, okay? No, she didn't ask to have incest parents. Arianne realizes Ares hasn't told Myrcella anything about the plan.

So then Arianne smiles and trying to soften the child's resolve, she moves in a cloud of silk and tells Myrcella that these all these weirdos, are your true and loyal friends, and they just want to be Myrcella's true and loyal friends too. Oh Myrcella, my bright perfect daughter, immediately asks if something happened to Tommen, not understanding why they keep calling her queen.

Princess Arienne! The girl threw her arms around her. Why do they call me queen? Did something bad happen to Tommen? He fell in with evil men, your grace, Arianne said. And I fear they have conspired with him to steal your throne. My throne? You mean the Iron Throne? The girl was more confused than ever. He never stole that. Tommen is... Younger than you, Princess, surely? I am older by a year. That means the Iron Throne by right is yours, Arianne said. Your brother is only a little boy. You must not blame him.

He has bad counselors, but you have friends. May I have the honor of presenting them she took the child by the hand arianne introduces marcella to her friends a bit of a recap roll call andre adult the heir to lemonwood he gives marcella an easy smile and an open face but marcella regards him warily which the cutest line ever is, until I know you, I must call you sir. I just thought that was like the cutest thing in the world. Super cute. I also forgot that guy

was here until this point in the podcast. See, we needed this recap. We did need this. Like, I remember the spotted Silva Santagar who is known for her freckles, although she is also the erratist spots would spotswood like also haha george i see you fresh spots named her after her freckles and where she lives crash and gay

garren of the orphans which of course was supposed to mean like happy here but i did love that then there's this imagery of he has one jade stud in his ear oh yeah arianne thinks on how marcella would have time to learn the history of the green's blood as she voyages up the river which i think that's important it shows arianne's motives for crowning marcella were not fully bad if not selfish you know besides like doing it for all the other wrong reasons but that ifrcella is going to be clean to their people, Aryan thinks that Myrcella needs to know the histories. She didn't, you know, necessarily have a death wish for her or anything. It was an accident, smiley face.

Ugh. And then finally, of course, a man who needs no introduction, Ser Gerald Dayne. Myrcella knows her history, though, and she immediately comments on Arthur Dane having been of the Kingsguard. The sword of the morning.

Though Gerald tells her that Arthur is now dead and so Myrcella asks if Gerald is the sword of the morning now. And he says no. Men call me Darkstar and I am of the night.

I also love how you can hear her in your head like, are you the sword of the morning now? Mr. Darkstar, sir? Mr. Darkstar. Oh my god, I love her. I love the way also that Ariane goes down this list of names and the way it's presented here. It makes it feel like it's some sort of adventure story again like this is your dnd party again and we're going on a trek

or on a mission and it's like perfectly aligns with quentin's own story of we're going on an adventure yes we absolutely open with adventure stank at the end of this chapter too especially like we get a lot of the different terrains and world building as they glide through dorn on their steeds from like the harsh sands and the moonlight to the rivers to the greenery to all the plentiful growth you get into it gives us an awesome look at how expansive dorn is and it also shows you like arianne doesn't really realize how serious this whole thing is until she like because she's just rolling through this opening credits on each character like every time she says name

like I can see them like smiling and then we see like the little cry out at the bottom it's like spotted little Santa guy so I also think you can see a lot of how serious she is not taking this and how she speaks to Marcella that we learn in a minute from Ares that Marcella's a really smart little girl. She's not dumb. You can see it already from her saying, why are they calling me queen? I'm not the queen, Arianne. Miss Arianne, I'm not the queen. But Arianne just talks down to her stupidly trying to smooth it over saying oh yes yes sweetheart well you know you technically are the queen by the way is why we're all here but i'm trying not for you to figure it all out right now so let's just here's a snack kid like straight up that's how she treats it she's like well come on we'll give you a snack

yeah and i mean marcella smartly pieces together what the next logical conclusion would be behind calling her your Greece. Is Hamon dead? And it's not a happy conclusion. She's like, this has happened to me before. You know, like one of my siblings dying. She's like, I know what happens. The king died, dude. My dad died.

My brother died. Like, another one one this keeps happening arianne steers marcella away from hot topic junior dark star and she offers her food and lemon sweet and tells her they need to make peace soon because the best way to travel is at night and dorm and that's not only for them and their mission but also for the horses horses as you and i are very passionate about in this podcast and any of our patrons who are signed up under a tier you will know because you have a horse name uh shout out my favorite which is stranger eliana you got a what a fave zorses i mean um yeah zorses but that's not the name of a singular horse you know that's that's a species like sweet foot or chestnut sweet foot or chestnut how'd you do it it was it was probably gonna be

sweet foot i know you anyways so we gotta think about the horses we gotta think about stranger we gotta think about sweet foot we gotta think about aries's gray steed right now you know what i'm saying man this is uh socks you gotta think about them in these conditions which shout out to george for remembering to think of them also it's like that's really good world building and storytelling the next silva requests to serve marcella at the fire and then arianne delivers her to the fire but not like in the way that uncle stannis would and then we catch gerald and aries having like a little banter where gerald then complains like people never ever remember arthur dane and aries said like well he was like a pretty fucking good knight and gerald's like well he just had a good sword and aries adds and a great heart

then begs a word from arianne and, you know, he had a great heart. I'm just thinking that. Also, like, A, that's the insult you're going with. Ares, like, back, like, you're like, I'm gonna take the high ground. And B, this is, like, kind of where you see what Ariane said earlier. Like, you know, oh, if he sees Darkstar, look at me. There'll be blood on the field. You almost get that little sense of bickering back and forth in this moment and aries takes ariana's side for reassurance in this moment they go further into the ruins and arian notes aries wore dornish fashion but with his king's

guard cloak because he is like the most valiant of all idiots right like he is just so dumb and courageous he is he is just so dumb and courageous he is he is arianne asks iris how much marcella actually knows and iris says little enough that before they left king's landing jamie had told her to follow iris's commands in dawn he comments that she is clever and knows more than people think. She has heard people shouting for vengeance in the streets and has done all Ares has asked of her. He reveals to Ariane that Tywin Lannister is dead to her shock, murdered by the imp and that the queen has taken the regency. Ariane is amazed that Cersei is on the throne.

And I mean, like, same, but but thinks it's gonna do good for her cause in crowning Myrcella because then the people are already going to be used to one blonde female ruler they're all I mean they're all interchangeable yeah absolutely I mean what's one girl Carol Mary whatever their names are Janet love Janet Aerries asks if arianne met with any problems in the plan and she comments only tristain wanting to hang out with marcella the whole goddamn time you're trying to make it happen it is cute they give kind of a slight reveal that they are telling people marcella had red spots which is basically chicken pox in worursteros, to get her out of the keep for queen's making. And Trystane had them when he was young, so he was totally cool trying to get up in that Savas table.

You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Myrcella's cousin, a Lannister of Lannisport, who is also her handmaid, is subbing in for Myrcella while she's out. She looks very similar, especially with Myrcella's help in curling her hair and putting the maester's salve all over her face over the red spots so people don't realize it's not Marcella but this is kind of where I'm like okay this is where the plan doesn't look so good on paper because that's like the equivalent of like stuffing your bed with a basketball and like stuffed animals and pillows to look like a bodies in it you know i mean like from afar maybe and yeah give her a disease but someone's gonna show someone's

gonna check he also had another guard member sub in for aries but it's one that is like three inches shorter so i mean if you see the same man guarding marcella every single day and suddenly he's a little bit shorter and, you know, Marcella, you gotta look closely to really realize it right away without a second glance, but it's kind of a weak, shaky plan, let's be real. It's a little shaky. It's a little shaky.

They only need it for a few days. Yeah, more like, you know, 12 hours until they get caught. Arianne says she just needs a few days to get Myrcella out of her father's reach, and Aerys, with his boner, because making queens is boner-worthy, nuzzles up at her, asking for the rest of the plan. But Arianne will not tell him her plan, and she laughs, and it's time they begin to ride.

Hey! My pony! Um, they strike out from the Shandystone Ruins with the moon crowning the moon maid. Ariane and Aerys take the lead, and Myrcella is planted between them. Garen follows closely, with Spotted Silva behind, and Gerald and Dre make up the back.

We are seven, Ariane realized as they rode. she had not thought of that before but it seemed a good omen for their cause seven riders on their way to glory one day the singers will make all of us immortal dre had wanted a larger party but that might have attracted unwelcome attention and every additional man doubled the risk of betrayal. That much my father taught me, at the least. Even when he was younger and stronger, Dorn Martell had been a cautious man, much given to silences and secrets. It is time he put his burdens down, but I will suffer no slights to his honor or his person. She would return him to his water gardens to live out what years remained him surrounded by laughing children in the smell of limes and oranges. Yes, and Quentin can keep him

company. Once I crown Myrcella and free the Sand Snakes, all Dorne will rally to my banners. The Ironwoods might declare for Quentin, but alone they were no threat. If they went over to Tommen and the Lannisters, she would have Darkstar destroy them root and branch. So what I think is very fun in this passage is that Arienne is nursing all of these ideas of grandeur. And she's already thinking about how she's going to be commemorated in these songs. And again, she's not taking this danger very seriously, since Darkstar, who's like the resident douchebag, is basically playing the Jairus drink water role here and is like telling her, these are the things that we need to do to make it to the end. Like, maybe we should move now, which draws many parallels to Quentin's storyline. Yeah, absolutely. Reading this back and front is great.

And of course, this is yet another place where I'm like Cersei moment much. This is Cersei banging a kettle black and going, hey, he's going to destroy my enemies. This is like total, there's a lot of like mad queen shit from Cersei that you get which it's interesting because george said that when he originally wrote feast dance as we discussed in the last couple point

of views he put cersei's point of views next to a few danny point of views on purpose to contrast their rule he said that so that these parallels with cersei are kind of popping out at us it's very interesting especially like two brothers and you know technically the eldest there's that and also the way that the books did end up being published right we are getting Arianne and Cersei's chapters for the first time in A Feast for Crows so there's by nature of the structure of the story we are of course going to compare them yeah absolutely and it's really just pulling it out i mean again technical eldest would-be heiress that thinks she's been disinherited which obviously different in circumstances but cersei who always thought she should have been the boy, she should have had the rights, you know, she hated her womanhood. You know, very, very much so, very misogynistic.

So really interesting to see. This probably is the best place to put this. And I kind of actually got excited thinking about it. But so in the Soiled Night, there are a couple spots that Aerys speaks about Sir Terence Toyne, for example, who was, of course, found a bed with one of Aegon the Unworthy's mistresses. And then we get another line where Ariane talks about the Golden Company's situation. No, she said. I would believe it of any of the other free companies, yes. Most of them would change sides for half a groat. The Golden Company is different.

A brotherhood of exiles and the sons of exiles, united by the dream of bitter steel. It'siana just read, we get this line, the Ironwoods might declare for Quentyn, but alone they were no threat. If they went over to Tommen and the Lannisters, she would have Darkstar destroy them root and branch. So of course, the biggest irony here is Ariana's comparing her and Quentyn, thinking the Ironwoods would support Quentyn over her, relating it to the Blackfyres and their support over the three wars for them, when really, she's more than likely going to be a leader in a faction for a black fire against daenerys without even knowing it absolutely and also like why would you think that dark star could like take on all of these people like root and branch like what because he's of the night lol after a few hours myrcella grows, and they tell her that first they're aiming for the green blood.

Then Arianne tells her about the orphans, how they live on boats and pull up and down the river fishing and picking fruit and working. Girin tells Myrcella about his parents, and Myrcella finds herself confused then about like, how can you be orphans if you have parents? They are the Rhoyner, Arianne explained, and their mother was the river Rhoyne. Myrcella did not understand. I thought you were the Rhoynar. The Dornish men, I mean. We are in part, your grace. Nymeria's blood is in me, along with that ofse martell that dornish lord she married on the day they wed nemeria fired her ships so her people would understand there could be no going back storm, disease, and slavery. There were a few who mourned, however. They did not love this dry red

land or its seven-faced god, so they clung to their old ways, hammered boats together from the hulks of burned ships, and became the orphans of the green blood. The mother in their songs is not our mother, but Mother Royne, whose waters nourished them from the dawn of days. After Myrcella's mini history lesson, and at the very least you can never say that Ariane does not know her history and her people, Dre attempts to appeal

to Myrcella sweetly and asks her about her mighty battles against Tristain and Savas. Myrcella informs them of Tristain's poor strategy. Tristain always sets his squares up the same way his mountains are in front and the elephants are in the passes and so myrcella sends her dragon to eat his elephants and seeing how a bunch of the other serva stuff in the book seems to have hinted

or like been some sort of foreshadowing like for example tyrian telling agon keep your dragon close which i guess agon decides like fuck that and then doran i believe he lifts the pawn right for the black dragon instead of the white dragon when he's talking about his plan like should we be reading marcella talking about her strategy or like the idea of like a dragon eating the elephants in the passes as for Shadweep. Oh, absolutely. I could see it already on two different levels. Of course, Daenerys' dragon

eating the elephants of the Golden Company. That's an easy one. And Quentyn's plot. The elephants that were in his adventure chapters and his being eaten by a dragon even. Do we want to remind everyone Quentyn was not eaten by a dragon even yeah do we want to remind everyone quentin was not eaten by a dragon he died on a bed wait he died oh yeah no he's that's not him anyway

trey then asks if marcella's handmaid also plays Savas, and Marcella says that Rosamund does not. And she gives us some of this Lannister of Lannisport exposition, and also it tells us a little bit about, like, Marcella's journey, like, how on the way to Dorne, Marcella switched places with Rosamund on the C-Swift, you know, when they were en route to Braavos, and Marcella dyed her hair brown, which, again, this whole, like, switcheroo thing it's basically the phantom menace but also because

it's in the same book as the elaine chapters like i you can see some of these some of these elaine parallels yeah especially because marcella is technically a bastard posing as a princess posing as a lowborn and Sansa is technically-ish a princess posing as a bastard. So some really neat lines there for the most part. The Septa told her that they were doing it to play a game, but Myrcella knew it was to keep her safe if the ship was taken by Stannis. Again, she's a bright child. Yeah, I like the detail of her calling him Uncle Stannis, too. Yeah, I like that a lot.

Arianne can tell she was getting tired, so she calls for a rest. They water the horses, and they eat for a bit. Some of the best stuff. The sky is turning red in the east, and Arianne notes that they're not making pace the way she would like to, because, you know, when does anyone ever show up on time? Darkstar then tells her that we should go quicker, or else we might have a rough go at it in the hot day sands.

The wind comes gusting in from the west, and it is hot and dry. Arianne veils herself in pale green and yellow silk with green pearls attached for weight and i love the description of the silks i'm really here for it it's just really cool to look at i didn't even like research any of the symbolism or think about it besides it's just pretty i know why my princess wears a veil sir Arise said as she was fastening it to the temples of her copper helm. Elsewise, her beauty would outshine the sun above. She had to laugh. No, your princess wears a veil to keep the glare out of her eyes and the sand out of her mouth.

You should do the same, sir. She wondered how long her white knight had been polishing his ponderous gallantry so aries was pleasant company at bed but wit and he were strangers i have a couple thoughts on this which of course it's a lot more overarching commentary on how these men keep thinking they know princesses with like the last two point of views right like Barrison and Quentin but on top of that it's interesting and it kind of feeds back into when I was talking about how old Ares is that he obviously like not only is he Kingsguard Valsel so I mean like that kind of hinders his A game but he also like his age kind of shows here i mean his age compared to her age that

she says to him like no you're being ridiculous you should put your veil on because you're gonna get sand in your mouth it's not because i'm trying to be a sexy you know like femme fatale it's because i'm gonna get sand in my goddamn mouth and it's gonna suck so you should put yours on dude like it's not the time aries it's not the time you know like she's like mouth and it's gonna suck so you should put yours on dude like it's not the time aries it's not the time you know like she's like 23 and he's obviously older than she is and she's just like you're a fucking night dude like get your shit together i okay this is just like a personal opinion because i as you all know love cheesy puns and jokes. And therefore, you know, and she's like, how long has he been thinking about this line? Like, I think that's hilarious and kind of cute.

Like, damn, how long did he spend on that pickup line? I find that relatable. Eliana, I'm just going to call you on the carpet here for a hot second. But you do know, like, every time anyone says anything criticizing aries you're like yeah but like i think i think you like aries like you love him like you literally love aries i just like his butt you don't you haven't even seen it and you know i think that's a short that's a shortcoming on the part of George's writing. Are we going to get into this? I'm going to get into this. Yeah, go for it. subreddit about comparing the way that george uses language to describe the women in the books

as opposed to how he describes the men in the books in terms of physicality and there's a lot of different details like there's a lot of diversity in the way that women are described and even the ones that maybe aren't so quote-unquote attractive are still described in ways that are very sensual or like it's still it's still in some senses sexual right whereas the men aren't really described that much in their physicality like they might be like oh i guess his face looks like this and he's tall and his hair is like this but it's not the same as the way the women are. Like, Arianne has responsive nipples. Or even within Dany's own chapters, she is thinking about, like, oh, my nipples feel this. And...

I don't think about my nipples, like, ever. Yeah. Only, like, I don't know. But yeah, like... You don't, yeah. And I think that it's something that for me especially shows in these chapters like arian obviously has a type all right and arian's obviously into like very physically attractive guys and can get it you know we get a lot of that with the stark

star stuff and i think that that's an unevenness with um the aries okart stuff like aries's chapter goes into so much detail about arianne's body and you are not going to convince me that arianne is not the kind of person who's thinking in her choice of like aries okart as a lover about his body like he's a knight like obviously he's been working out right he's got muscles it's the same thing behind like danny like but danny's like younger she's less experienced so obviously she has like more feelings but iran doesn't have that she's like uh here's a hot piece of ass and i'm gonna hit it um get it girl yeah it is a little interesting to see it from both point of views in this

especially and that like it's just lacking especially like now i'm just thinking about this chapter of this big like back and forth tryst like arianne's like she's walking across the fire to go talk to dark star and then she's like okay now i have to go talk to aries before he realizes that i was just talking to dark star i'm like oh god he probably thinks we fucked oh shit we're fucked and then like she's just going back and forth she's like shit i'm babysitting too shit i have to do all this shit everything's going wrong like i feel like that's like what i'm seeing now and it's really funny so it's really funny to think of it that way so everybody then veils themselves they like pull up their silk to build themselves on their armors

and outfits except for aries because he has a big stubborn white man baby he's like nope i'd rather eat sand which like hope we get some hate mail on that one because whatever but he literally dies like in a page and a half you guys so he died yeah and i mean like usually i'd say maybe he should cover himself with a veil because this is how people get skin cancer, but it's okay. He dies sooner than that can happen. Yeah. Yeah. Like, real soon.

Like, very soon. So soon. And the Sands and Dorne, they're not deadly, but many hosts have tried to come down the princess path before and many of them did not survive. So soon enough, they cross the worst of it and Arianne sees wildlife again. They even find a tree which means they're not that far from water. They even find a tree. They find a tree and that means they're not that far from

water. Garen tells Marcella that we're almost there and so they stop to water their horses they drink from their skins, wet their veils then they mount once more for this last push. They're riding through olive groves and devil's grass and

stony hills until the grass grows greener and they pass by the lemon orchards and Garen spots the green of the river. Of the green blood glimmering and races ahead arianne recalls the time she crossed the mander when she and three of the sand snakes visited tiny's mother she thinks the green

blood is scarcely worthy of being a river in comparison to the mander but it does remain the life of dorn it's named for its murky green waters but it actually looked golden glimmering in the sun as they got closer harriam begins to think on the rest of her plans up the grainblood on to vaith as far as a pole boat can go beyond Vaith and lay deep sands. She knows they will need help past then at Sandstone and Hellholt to cross. She isn't really particularly worried. Oberyn was fostered at Sandstone and Ellaria is from Hellholt. So four of her kin, the Sand Snakes, were Lord Oler's granddaughters then, obviously. She thinks to herself, I will crown Myrcella at hellholt and raise my banners there which also now that i'm thinking more about it is kind of like again how we focus on things that quentin does that's very privileged and like how you know he thinks of people as roaches and all this and like just doesn't you know he finds himself you know disgruntled because he has to play the servant and he's all, I'm going to be a hero because I was born to be a hero into this high

born family. Like that's, again, she's just bringing that to their house, dude. She's just like, you know what? My cousin's mom, that's like not related to us. Like not to say bastards aren't people, but that's like, they're not, they're half cousins. You know what I mean? Like, they're, they could like, you could ship them with a cousin and it'd be okay. Is what I'm saying, bloodlines. Like, very okay. Like, they're just very not even related.

And she's all like, I'm just going to go there because the people that own it are the grandparents of my half cousins. And I'm going to choose that to be the place where i raise all my banners and dorn and get them to come to me and we're gonna go attack the lannisters and myrcelle's gonna have a throne because cersei and tom and zelda and i should do that because vengeance for oberyn and elia like that's what it comes off as kind of right like like you're just gonna go to these people's house like that come on dude, dude. Yeah, she thinks they're going to be, like, thankful or honored, but she's bringing danger onto their house. I mean, look at the houses we've seen in Westeros during all these wars that haven't done anything, that stayed out of the fray. No pun intended.

You know, like, didn't lend their armies, just, like, sat there and did nothing until they knew where they wanted to go. I mean, and that's where a lot of people in Westeros are right now. Obviously people aren't really believing in the Lannister regime, but there's no other options when suddenly two options are going to appear. They follow the boat half a league downstream and then marvel at the pole boats. That once upon a time, that young dragon,

when he had come down there had once disparaged. The pole boats are painted and they're carved and they're lovely with like fish faces and mermaids and ropes and poles and jars are like real swag and arianne becomes very nervous she doesn't see any of the orphans of the green blood like where are they garen rains up beneath a giant billow tree and calls from a saddle wake up you fish-eyed lagabeds he called as he leapt down from the saddle

your queen is here and wants a royal welcome come up come out we'll have some songs and sweet wine my mouth is set for the door and the pole boat slammed open out into the sunlight stepped Arya Hota long axe in hand oh my god damn what an oh shit moment right like this is i so i don't know if i've ever felt that way reading

that moment until tonight i was rereading it for like the third time this week and like as i was looking at it like just the just hearing the door slam open and hota coming up just as garen's all fooling around like like it's a perfect writing moment like you couldn't have done anything else with it so like bravo george it was just such a fuck dude knew something was gonna go wrong so arianne feels as though an axe has caught in her stomach and this thought her her internal monologue all of this is just really good like any of the things she's thinking are just like it's such a good chapter it was not supposed to end this way this was not supposed to happen

you know just a panic oh yeah and like all of it's wonderfully written like i love that axe caught her in the stomach because you know it's like arihota and axes but also also that that other line of like it wasn't supposed to be like this like it wasn't supposed to end this way this was not supposed to happen like whatever i have i would like to call to attention quentin in the dragon teamer dog quentin said the day's work was supposed to be dog why wouldn't they let us pass we were told it just like that what they were just like what happened to my plans my beautiful plans that caught in the stomach like that like it wasn't supposed to end this way what just happened it's literally the calm before the real storm breaks out both of those moments are because they get through that door which Quentin and them getting through

that door and getting away before they have the real battle happen with it is so interesting it reminds me of like Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone or Sorcerer's Stone whatever you want to call it with like during the stages of each thing they like get through you know and like every single one they're like oh my god how did we just get through that like that's what it felt like that moment and then of course like when the arianne becomes nervous seeing no orphans part that is the locust he realized dog he said like that's that moment of okay what's going on yeah and that's that dog realization after the why didn't they let us pass? What? It's just, it's such intense buildup. Reading it this time was such an intense buildup. And Dre, of course, is like, explains it.

Like, Dre straight up is just like, dude, we're fucked. That's what this means. Like, this is the last person we were supposed to see here. Like, fuck, dude, this is fucked. Like, we out. We gotta go. So Ariane, of course, immediately, she thinks, you know, she has to call to action. And she calls her crew away. She orders aries to protect the princess and she vaults herself onto her horse and ario thumps his long axe on the deck once more and a dozen guardsmen armed with

spears or crossbows appear and more appear atop the cabin like Like, just more, oh, fuck. You know, oh, we're fucked. Mario orders her to yield. And if she does not, he has orders to slay everyone but her and Myrcella. Which is, like, intense. It's an intense order. Especially for, like, when you think your dad's not fucking around. You're like, ah, dad's whatever. That's just dad. Everybody, that was, like, that's why i'm like doran was so like oh they

don't fucking they don't fucking respect me these fucking kids i'll fucking show them kill your fucking lover and kill your fucking games card lover bitch and kill your fucking yeah what's that for master plan or doran martell i don't think doran knows that ari is an area and are sleeping together yeah it's true because she tells him so it's more of my favorite part about that chapter is it's like a arianne really this one too yeah marcella sits motionlessly though like in her mount and garen backs away from the pole boat like his hands are up, and Dre unbuckles his sword belt, telling Arianne that maybe you should yield. Like, this is

the smart thing to do. And Ares, of course, is, like, being a fucking idiot, and he decides I'm going to charge in. He puts himself and his horse in between the crossbowmen and Arianne and decides not to relinquish his steel. Hey, I mean, when can a man

be brave, Alyana? Uh, for the pussy? No! Sir Aerys Oakheart put his horse between Ariane and the crossbows, his blade shining silver in his hand he had unslung his shield and slipped his left arm through the straps you will not take her

whilst i draw breath you reckless fool was all that arianne had time to think what do you think you're doing i love that throughout this entire passage ever since like ariah hota of years and this whole thing goes down like there's a lot of ambiguity in this language in the scene when it comes to the princess that aries is protecting like yes we've established already that he's marcella's protector but if you look at his actions like no sir aries okart put his horse between arianne and the crossbows like that's the action that he takes or even like when arianne's like protect the princess like there's fucking two princesses here right and then also it's like you idiot they would never kill arianne she's the heiress to dorn like so

it's totally for naught and ario's like this is like my little girl um and then the words that arianne almost shouts to aries and she's of like and then she doesn't like if you love your princess yield but you know that if you love your princess like who is your princess it's not just about marcella yeah and with that like so yeah a few seconds ago ario yells out his commands like if you don't stop, I will kill everyone except you two. Like, you know this, Arya, and it was not for Aerys, so he kind of

acts like the stupid, gallant fool here. Really, I wouldn't say not in character, but, like, it's an out-of- turn kind of thing. Like, he knows he's failing, and I almost wonder if, I i mean especially from the immeasurable guilt that he felt in his soiled night chapter it was his no chance no choice he

knew he wasn't going to get the girl in the end he was stupid for telling himself that that would happen because he knew it would never happen you know he he knew he knew marcella is more doomed than most little girls are in westeros are, like, naturally. And he knew that, like, not counting the knowledge that we as a reader know, not counting Maggie's prophecy. He knew, you know, people in the streets want her dead. They think she's a Lannister scum.

I mean, they had to send a Kingsguard with her down there and, you know, it's, in a way, maybe this was him going, fuck it, maybe I'm just gonna try to go out a hero defending her. Because, like, he didn't have to. Like, they just said that out loud. Like, it was a stupid move for no reason.

Yeah. And I just struggle getting it. I mean, I too have been through breakups. Ari's Okart. But you don't see me charging into anyone's axe. Like, also, Darkstar is not worth that. Yeah, he's not.

I'm just saying. Fuck. Darkstar then laughs, and he's telling Ari to put his sword up, that he's making a giant fool of himself. Not untrue. Dre tells him to as well. Which also kind of, there's a fool aspect, and also I kind of wonder,

does everyone here know that Arya Hota is, like, he's serious shit? Yeah, dude, everyone does. He's serious shit. He's wielding his axe right there. Yeah, and they all know that, like, it's Arya Hota. Like, they respect him, you know? Yeah, they grew up with him, dude. And he's a good, they know that he's a good warrior.

Yeah. We are taken, sir, Arion might have called out. Your death will not free us if you love your princess Yield. But when she tried to speak, the words caught in her throat, and, yeah, I just don't get this. Like, questions of, like, why? Why were we given this thing

and, like, told that, like, the questions caught in her throat? And it feels to me like one of those moments like as michael aka bookshelf stud like talks about you know you see george rr martin thumbing the scales for like a certain outcome and this is that for me because i'm like it's either you should have had aries just fucking do this or like arianne shouldn't have thought this because i don't i don't get it so i have two takes on this one that's like the real vanilla satisfactory take of like okay again dog locusts like doing stupid shit or not saying stupid shit while you're emotionally compromised you know being so overtaken with emotion you can't speak which is what probably is happening i mean hotel like they said that's the last thing they expected or wanted to see all

the way at the greens blood but on the other hand do you think like maybe maybe in the spicy sorry so spicy like dorn get ready to handle it hot bloated exotic exotic erotic forbidden fruit that's really fun to say um so like maybe her yen just was also at the same time thinking like if he's about to do this he's an idiot and obviously there's really not much i can say except is this really fucking happening? Are you really about to die for this shit? Like, what? And she's just so, like, obviously she's so emotionally in the moment fucked that she's just like, what? But also

at the same time, like, hot take, she didn't love Ares. She didn't love him, but I just think that, I don't know, wouldn't anyone just normally be like, you're chill? have you ever had to get rid of a clingy guy i mean dumping a clingy boyfriend that's real hard no especially like one that's like five years older or so than you and you're just like

gotta go and they're just like i want to get a tattoo of your name on you i'm like what around them yeah anyways so i mean i just go sit on them i mean what i'm saying is like aries is that guy that you dump like when you're 15 and he's 21 or 16 and when you're 16 and he's 21 and he's like oh i'm gonna get hip tattoo with your name or your initials hidden inside of it. It's gonna be a butterfly. And you're just like, okay, I'm sorry I ever hurt you. I really cared about you. Goodbye. Like, maybe that's what was going on

is what I'm saying. Anyways, I realize that was a bit specific, but... This is your SSM moment where you're describing the Torrin and Malario split. I've had a lot of uncomfortable relationship stories, so. Sir Ares spurs into

his horse and he charges. He rides for the pole boat and his white cloak is in the air behind him. Arianne has never seen anything so gallant or so stupid. She's so wet. Stop. You're wet. God.

Wait your turn, Aliana. She shrieks. Thebows thrum ariel yells a command a bolt pierces his shield a second raises his temple a spear takes aries's horse no some girl was shouting some foolish little girl no please this was not supposed to happen she could hear marcella shrieking too her voice shrill with fear and again you know like there's a lot of great ambiguity in this language uh that also serves to characterize arianne and her insecurity like in this moment she's not that sexy femme fatale like even though she's led to ariza's doom like there's there's a fatale aspect but instead she's described as this some foolish

little girl which initially you think it might be marcella but then the language next says she could hear marcella shrieking too and so we see that just as quentin when he's facing those dragons and like his voice croaks he's like i'm becoming frog again in that face of danger and chaos arianne also just becomes a foolish little girl in her head it's one of the sources of her insecurity that despite you know being like having this woman's body she doesn't know how to kill that girl and let the woman be born which like same god just the pain of all this how it's written her on her knees sobbing just incredulous at what just happened what a chapter end it is so intense it is

and the arianne chapters are just so good i'm so excited that we're doing these dude and i'm so sad because it's over so soon like i love the dorn plot in a feast for crows so much i even love hota like these chapters the sadness they're all gonna die i love a feast for crows so much i even love hota like these chapters the sadness they're all gonna die i love a feast for crows me too i it's an unpopular maybe take it's my favorite of the books you know what i'm starting to feel like it's not an unpopular take because enough people are coming out as a feast for growers like us and all over yeah like i'm seeing a lot of people like oh hot take i love a feast for girls and i was like you know so i don't know yes i'm definitely in the feast for crows best book uh but i think your least favorite is my second favorite i love clash

because i just love the rebuild after the storm of mistruck's death what happens so and blackwater yeah clash is my favorite that's fair there's a lot of good aria stuff storm is really good though i don't like the aria 7 clash interestingly i find those like so boring oh interesting i like all aria stuff the aria feast chapters a lot which apparently are very unpopular i I like them. I think that they get a good enough amount for what's going on. So, you know.

Somehow, Ares leaps free from the chaos, and he's struggling to his knees and his sword, and next to him, his horse is bleeding out, and then Ariahot is over him, and then his long axe is crashing down. Then he takes off Arya's arm, and then next to his head.

Ugh. It was, I, like, forgot that his head, like, flies off. Which is interesting, because in the show they did that scene in the sand with, like, Ellaria and the snakes, snakes uh with the dude's head on the ground nope i blocked that out yeah i i have a really i don't know who the dude was but i have a vague memory of a dude's head being on the ground so like at least they read ish a couple pages is what i'm saying that imagery though is like haunting the beheading on the ground and then this passage is just like this is killer this is no pun intended uh this is one of my fave passages arianne did not remember climbing from

her horse perhaps she'd fallen she did not remember that either yet she found herself on her hands and feet in the sand shaking and sobbing and retching up her supper. No, was all she could think. No, no one was to be hurt. It was all planned. I was so careful. She heard Aryo Hotav roar, after him. He must not escape. After him. Myrcella was on the ground, wailing, shaking, her pale face in her hands, blood streaming through her fingers arianne did not understand men were scrambling onto horses whilst others swarmed over her and her companions but none of it made sense she had fallen into a dream some terrible red nightmare

this cannot be real i will wake soon and laugh at my night terrors seem us how we see ned dissociating from traumatic events in his chapters i think we can see that here uh with the way that george writes and conveys these moments in arian's storyline like she doesn't exactly remember what has happened we're talking about she you know like she doesn't know like she didn't remember clapping from her horse maybe she'd fallen she didn't remember that either and it's only what happens next like for example see how the execution of lady the wolf is written though obviously ned remembers but it's that uh murkiness arianne is unable to piece together what's happening in the chaos she's blinded by how everything could have gone so wrong

and like again we touched on this in those Quentin chapters but Quentin was just so stunned when like one thing didn't go right when things went wrong and this happens with Arianne as well like unlike characters who can adapt very easily to those stressful situations or those chaos and think on their feet like Sam's actually a very good example of this. Like, he's like, uh, I have a knife, and you know, we're gonna do it. We're just gonna fucking do it. Like, characters who can take action, like the two Martell children that we see, they freeze when things go awry. And again, I think that we're likely going to see a similar reaction from Doran Martell, when turns out his plans fucking suck, because they do. doran martell uh when turns out his plans fucking suck because they do i also think maybe it's a risk factor too that the characters that tend to deal with this so well who adapt easily to stress

like sam they have nothing left to lose they've lost all their family their status they're in the night's watch like what's gonna happen they die then they don't have to run around in the cold for a handful of formal handful more of years before they get like eaten by a white walker that's not what happens but you know i i think that arianne and quentin go into this with i have so much to lose if i don't come back with this where people that kind of adapt to like sam and sanza and they find themselves at the bottom of the barrel at like well it's only gonna get worse no matter what so the least I could do is just try or deal with it I think I don't know if that I would agree that's the case for Sam I think for Sam baby it's that there's so

much on the line that he can't take that risk because for him he's like if I die what's gonna happen to Gilly and her baby right which of course now of course, now in A Feast for Crows, yes. But I'm saying more of Sam, like, you know, fighting a whitewater. Yeah, and I think he's doing it for Gilly and the baby. Like, there's a tangible consequence for him. And for Arianne and Quentin, they

cannot think ahead enough to see that there's a tangible consequence to them failing. They're like, yeah, I mean, I guess that could happen but that's not gonna happen to me exactly so that almost that place of privilege of you know people that have been shit on compared to like people that are like oh well that's fine i'll figure it out yeah i mean even after this arianne you know she will get next chapter we'll talk about how she's very, you know, like, she acts demure for

a little bit, and she tries to, you know, front, like, she's going to be better, but she come, you know, uh, spoiler alert, Eliana don't listen, because I don't think you've read them yet, but spoiler alert, come the winds of winter, here she is back on her bullshit again, like, you know what, fuck Quentin, you know, fuck him.

Yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go, uh, Aegon, i'm gonna go uh agon yeah i'll meet agon i'll meet him i'll meet him quentin i mean not quentin quentin you don't know what i'm talking about quentin so fronton martel fronton martel arianne's father's guardsmen bind her hands and ariel hotota announces he is to bring her back to Sunspear. I am sorry, little princess. Arianne raised a tear-streaked face. How could he know? She asked the captain. I was so careful. How could he know?

Someone told, Hotash shrugged. Someone always tells. I love that line. I'm sorry about that. Yeah, we'll keep this one short. This has been a really fun episode. Very long. Yeah, it's, you know,

we're doing good. This is just, I think we went a little overboard, because this is a thick, two-seas chapter. There's just so much different exposition, different plots that stem from this chapter there's so much to think about so for our discourse we are going to talk about who told the age-old question the chicken or the egg i like this post by user bailailbard on Reddit and they say that it's

tie-in because some people suggest like, oh, it could be Garen or Sylva Santagarn or whatever, and he's like, no, it's gotta have narrative weight and be someone that we actually fucking care about as readers and he says it's tie-in.

I like that one if I had to pick who it was however uh i was kind of mad today because eliana posted that and it's a reddit link that's her thing she likes to find reddit theories because she is a moderator of the subreddit a swap on reddit if you haven't been on check it out she's on there as last table girl you like that plug uh but so if you haven't been on, check it out. She's on there as Glass Table Girl. Do you like that plug? But so, if you haven't checked it out up there, there's some great theorists, great discussions, great things going on, lots of cool theory crafting and meta-analysis.

But I wrote a Queensmaker theory about a year and a half ago that Eliana did not link in our notes for the episode. I upvoted this. In my defense, this other post came out much more recently, and I am a rabbit with no memory.

I understand. It's fine. It's fine. But, uh, my spicy take on the whole matter, which a lot of people don't like, and whatever, I don't really care. A lot of people liked it. It's alright. And, I mean, I don't know and whatever i don't really care so you don't like a lot of people liked it it's all right and i mean like i don't know if i like 100 agree but this plot is something that's been introduced since a storm of swords oberyn mentions this plot to tyrian in the very

first couple chapters we get to see in captain of guards we actually get a vision of every single sand snake that's available coming up to doran and being like hey we should start a war against the lannisters you know what we should do we should crown myrcella she's a great that's a good move we could do that dude start a war and he's like dude i'm not gonna fucking do that like settle down so they come up to him you know oberyn was on his ass as soon as they got myrcella saying shit in his ear. Because he's up there talking to Tyrion about it and Storm of Swords. So what I'm saying is, where do you think the Sand Snakes got that idea from? They got that shit from Oberyn, bro.

They have talked about it all the time. And I get that we need someone to tell whatever like how would they have gotten the exact plans but stuffing the basketball and the extra pillows and the stuffed animals in your bed to make it look like marcello is there and like also making the really iconic kingsguard that always wears his goddamn white cloak everywhere like he's fucking anti-batman be like shorter and not the same build as ari so part it's just like this was a recipe for disaster every single move that she made was bad you know going to alaria san's grandparents house like if you were going to someone's house as a kid your parent and you weren't supposed to be there your parents would figure it out okay is what i'm saying they'd be like even it was two days later but this was like

12 hours later so i don't think and narratively we might not ever find out who told like we don't have to know who told and i don't know that we ever will find out who told i agree that i don't think we need to know who told and we might not ever find out i just think that there must have been someone who told just because like a how would they know the exact location and like approximately when and stuff as well as i feel like ario hota wouldn't say someone told someone always tells like for me it's just that i don't think ario would just make that shit up the The other thing is, like, Doran's already feeling suspicious about her. Not to say he didn't have her follow the whole last week.

I don't know. There's just, I just don't think that, again, we won't ever find out. So I guess it's, that's something we should ask George at a con. We keep saying every episode, man, if we were at Worldcon, we would have said this. But finding out who told would be something really good to ask George at a con. We keep saying every episode, man, if we were at Worldcon, we would have said this. But finding out who told would be something really good to find out at a con. Someone ask George that if you see him. If I see him, if I do Worldcon next year, like I'm hoping do, fingers crossed, I will ask him that. That will be my question.

Maybe. I will ask him about all of the different hours. No, you'll ask him about Gianna reeds i'm using my ask for who told god fucking damn it okay man well all right we did it that's the episode we're never doing an episode again we're so tired you guys this was great we're really excited about ari and martel this is our shit yeah and i guess this is because know, you didn't have an episode last week. So I guess here you get this huge log one. They deserve it.

They deserve it. Yeah. So this has been Arianne episode 17. An intro to Arianne Martell and the Queenmaker. intro to Ariane Martell and the Queenmaker. Be sure to tune in next week when Fat Walda from the subreddit for

A Song of Ice and Fire joins us. Make sure you subscribe to Girls Gone Canon on Twitter, on iTunes, on Podbean, on Google Play, Acast, and Stitcher. You can also pledge to our Patreon

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like Arianne 1 and 2 from The Winds of winter coming up later this month and also let us know what you think you know write to us if you want to on girls gone canon at gmail.com we get some really cool emails and stuff like how we've recently tweeted out these stickers from a bong of ice and fire which are super fun thank you for making those uh well or logos i don't know we're we're figuring out we don't know what we're gonna do recently tweeted out these stickers from Abang of Ice and Fire, which are super fun. Thank you for making those. Or logos. I don't know. We're figuring out. We don't know what we're going to do with them yet, but we like them

and we're going to try and figure out something. Honestly, they're really cool. Earlier today I was kind of BSing with a co-worker and I was like, I could get that as a tattoo, dude. I'm down with that. Yeah. Are you going to be the Ares Hocart making the tattoo of our cast? I'm going to get your initials hidden in it all.

Yeah, nice, nice. And, of course, you know, shoot us a tweet. Leave us a review on iTunes. Helps people find us. Do all these things. I've been Eliana, one of your hosts. You can find me as GlassTableGirl on the Maester Monthly podcast or on the

A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. I'm Chloe. You can find me on twitter as at lies and arbor on tumblr writing meta analysis as lies and arbor that tumblr.com and also at drunk song of ice and fire history at drunk a swath this has been episode 17 have a great weekend and week you guys