Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 180 — ASOS Bran II

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

"Are you certain you never heard this tale before?" Links Mentioned:  @WeirwoodThrone's Twitter Thread  Lady Gwyn's theory about Lem Lemoncloak  u/KingLittlefinger's Harrenhal Conspiracies  Lady Gwyn's Inn at the Crossroads theory  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire episode 180, brand two in a storm of swords. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. This is such a special episode specifically for Chloe. I'm excited for us to be here today. Yeah, thanks for joining me. And I let Eliana come too for this one.

I thought it could be fun for her to still be on the podcast for it. Yeah. My roommate, that guy I live with, was joking. He was like, I can't believe you even let Eliana show up for this one. It's just the Cloathon. Well, she needs someone to react to her brilliance, so that's what I'm here for. Someone's

gotta laugh at my jokes, folks. I'm here to be the loving, adoring audience. That's about it. audience you do a damn good job of it you do a damn good job of it i do no you have a lot of great thoughts about this episode too and we'll talk a little bit more about why this chapter is one of my favorites in a little bit but first some housekeeping for you all up top yeah so we have our patreon episode for this month we are continuing our read through of a couple of george's short stories and this month maybe maybe we thought it would like pair kind

of nicely with some of the names and stuff that we're going to talk about in this episode but january's patreon episode will be a song for leah or a song for liah depending on how you want to pronounce it ge George doesn't pronounce Dothraki right, so I can say whatever I want. Oh my god. Yes, we're gonna be talking about a song for Leah. You can grab it in the Dream Songs Anthology or on its own. It's a novella, novelette, whatever you want to call it. Might even be, is it a short story? Is it a novelette? No one knows. Who knows? It's got a couple little sci-fi themes in it.

And yes, some very familiar names and characters in some ways that you might know from the Aeswaf world or feel at home reading, right? I kind of like that these stories are tangential. They're not in the same world, but they have some George in them. That's for sure. You read it and you know it's George R.R. Martin. And that's available for patrons in the Stranger tier and above, $5 and up. Now let's say you want to be a patron in the Thunder tier and above, the $10 and up tier. You get access to our special Patreon Discord. Patrons in that tier over at Discord, there are, oh my god, we have like over 100 members of this discord which

is amazing thank you so much to everyone that's joined we hang out once a month in the voice chat we do a video voice chat where we do brunch slash happy hour and there's games and get to know yous and icebreakers and just chit chatting and sometimes we talk about i don't know sometimes we talk about a swath sometimes the hot D days were like completely just talking about the episodes. It was a blast. Even though we had other events going on that we were also all hanging out and talking about the episodes in. It was a blast. Sometimes you just talk about British slang, you know, and celebrities doing silly tasks for like some game show that now I forgot the name of.

silly tasks for like some game show that now I forgot the name of. It's really cool to have people from all over that hang out in our discord and come to these brunches. This month is going to be January 21st, Saturday, and it's going to be the last Saturday brunch for a couple of months for another reason we'll tell you about in just a moment. But if you are in that Thunder tier or want to join that Thunder tier, that is just one of the perks that you will get as a member of that tier at patreon.com slash girls gone canon. And then that will start transitioning in February, February 4th, to coverage of Season 3 of His Dark Materials. Our wonderful patrons, Cassidy

and Pete, are hosting slash co-hosting a rewatch of His Dark Materials Season 3. Yeah, and there are even going to be some guest hosts here and there, I'm hearing. A couple people have volunteered to take some episodes off their Yeah, and there are even going to be some guest hosts here and there. I'm hearing a couple people have volunteered to take some episodes off their hands and it's a great time. They bring, honestly, it's kind of professional. They've really stepped the game up in series two

when they did the rewatch. Series one and two, they did, you know, like full on slides with photos so that as you chat about stuff, you have the photos right there. A couple people even did, I think, GIFs and video clips. So I think season three is going to be a blast. It's going to be something to look out for. It's going to be emotionally damaging, but that's why we like the His Dark Materials series and engage with it, maybe. If you haven't checked them out and you are a fan of the series or if you're looking for something to read take a take a gander right pull open a book we did cover the main trilogy that's the first book northern lights golden compass second book the subtle knife and third book the

amber spyglass as well as we've covered all of the novellas that Philip Pullman has put out in that universe over at Patreon for Stranger Tier and above. And if that's not enough, we have started the Companion Trilogy, the Books of Dust. We have finished La Belle Sauvage. Our coverage of that is up at a platform near you. And I'm hearing from a little bird that the next book in the Companion Trilogy is not far off from hitting GGC production. So keep your ears, keep your eyes peeled. It's a secret. A secret commonwealth. Yeah, and as well as completing our coverage of the main book trilogy, we have, of course, put out all of our episodes already of His Dark Materials, which wrapped up here in North America. Yeah, notice Eliana called it Season 3, where it was Series 1 and Season 2, of His Dark Materials, which wrapped up here in North America. Yeah, notice Aliana called it Season 3, where it was Series 1 and Season 2,

because it aired first in America this year. Legally, that makes it a United States show now. Yes, legally, we own it now. Oh my god. It's called The Golden Compass now, officially. That's been on, actually, fascinatingly, maybe it's tied to this, to the series. It has been on a lot of airplanes recently. Like, United Airlines has it, for sure, like, amongst movies that you can watch.

Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. It's coming back. It's making a comeback. Really interesting. I will also say, at holidays, it is a big holiday movie. All the stations play it at holidays for some reason. That's so fascinating to

me i literally think because they think the story is tangential in a way which it is to c.s lewis narnia stuff and i think those and you know how like harry potter and narnia and all that those movies are big christmas ones because they usually have snow scenes and family shit and everyone can watch them i really truly think that they consider it a holidayable movie holidayable programming that's so funny to me it's so funny because it's literally not about that yep yep but well that that movie wasn't about anything let's be real someone's making money so happy for them i I guess. Yes, yes. Well, thanks for listening to all the housekeeping.

I know this is the trudgy part, but we're about to get to all the excitement. And this is a big deal. Eliana, you've gone like weeks starved of attention, of reviews, of emails. No one's commented on Podbean. No one's cared about you except me every day but gosh am i being isolated you had a plethora of emails messages comments support tweets come through for you to talk about and read about i felt like rapunzel there for a moment with uh no one cares about you but me doesn't Brush his hair.

None of these comments talk about the best part of the podcast, which is the constant nagging back and forth. So we did get some nice words from one of our friends, Jamie. Not that Jamie, though. Spelled a little different. Another I, but not where you think. Where do you think? I don't know.

I just wanted to quote. I just wanted to quote Madison from She-Hulk, the best character from She-Hulk. But anyways, Jamie sent us a nice email. Thank you very much for that. There are some things in it that we might address and come back to at another point. Yes, very much so. There's always a time and place in our email world. We do keep them. We have a little folder we put them in and we go searching for the right stuff.

But there's a lot of right stuff today, like what Clara sent. She is a fan of our coverage of the brand chapters thus far. And in episode 179 last week, brand one, ASOS, she thought she should write in about the alpha and beta wolf discussion and how usually wolves choose their leaders on physical strength and ability but but there are african wolves sometimes known as wild african dogs who decide on their leader based on talents and personality traits so sometimes their alpha can be physically disabled and scientists have found wolves without tails or legs leading their packs. They said, I wonder if the concept of a physically disabled

leader is an idea that interests George. Hmm. What could it mean? What could it mean? Also, Eliana might like these wolves as they're very cute and they have very big Mickey mouse ears. Thank you so much for this email clara and yes agreed like uh clara also says something that you know the term alpha has been very misappropriated by certain movements of people i don't know if i should even call them a movement i don't know if they deserve that title but and that's kind of why i tried to you know a little bit to say head wolf i know that alpha has every now and then some people have kind of debunked like whether or not wolves are structured in that way.

And as Claire points out wisely, that oftentimes the leader of packs are based on those talents and personality traits. And I think that Claire makes a good point as to whether, you know, George is exploring the idea of a physically disabled leader when it comes to wolves because when we covered Faramir's chapters, right, we learned about that smaller wolf pack of One-Eye, Stalker, and Sly, where One-Eye is actually the head of that pack. And I think that the name kind of gives away that One-Eye might be physically disabled. The name, indeed.

Indeed. He's also, you know, the biggest biggest but not the leanest or the quickest of the wolves so oh i love that that's really interesting and they do have really fucking cute ears you're not wrong clara that is true you're not wrong i love a good ear well actually we've gotten a lot of reviews the past few months. So thank you to everyone who has written in with one. We appreciate it and we take it into account. Like, for example, you know, we do use it to improve the podcast. Someone called out, you know, when Chloe and I were like, wouldn't it be wonderful to record together?

But unfortunately, the audio did suffer a bit. So we did correct that for the benefit of everyone. But this one, I just wanted to call it out of thanks for all the hours of your podcast. It's pretty great. You two are an amazing, funny, and dorky in all the best ways. Thank you. And I'm sorry to inform you,

but I do not have $8,000 a month to pay you to stop podcasting. So I guess I will just have to keep on listening. Sincerely, yours, Jake. Well, Jake, I don't know what to say. You know, I don't know if to say you know i don't know if the world is happy or disappointed that unfortunately everyone will just have to keep listening to us because you could not do this thing for us i will say it's only been what maybe 15 episodes since i

said that for eight thousand dollars i don't know what episode it was but it was recently in the last year that i said pay us us $8,000 and I will stop. I will completely, that will be my silence. And no one has taken me up on that yet. Per month, not just $8,000, right? Oh, I said per month. You're right. Thank you.

That might be why. Aliana's making sure I get my bag. Yeah, absolutely. It's in perpetuity, friends. Don't shortchange yourself, Chloe. Thank you souity, friends. Don't shortchange yourself, Chloe. Thank you so much, Jake. I appreciate the review.

And we did grab an email from our friend Thunderclap. And there was a lot of really good stuff in this email. And I really wanted to point out, basically, Thunderclap broke down that he thinks Coldhands is Maester Willis. that he thinks cold hands is maester willis he points out maester willis who we hear of in the wall and beyond in the world of ice and fire but he's a maester of the citadel who journeyed to hardhome on a pentoshi trader and establishes himself with the free folk and kind of wrote down their customs and he was under the protection of a chieftain named Gorm. Gorm gets murdered in a drunken brawl. Willis ends up in danger and flees back to Old Town where he writes Hardhome, an account of the three years spent beyond the Wall among savages, raiders, and wood witches. The year after the Illuminations are done, he vanishes.

And it's said at the Citadel he was last seen at the docks looking for a ship to take him to Eastwatch. So, that's your little quick brief from me to bring you back in. I would never have thought about this ever. And I think this actually could be true. Like I think Thunderclap might have cracked it. He points out a couple lines right of like obsidian does not burn. Armin said, dragonglass. Pate said, the small folk call it dragon glass somehow that seemed important right so the knowledge of dragon glass and obsidian being at the citadel and its properties and then he also points out the rangers studied his hands as if he had never noticed them before once the heart has ceased to beat a man's blood runs down into his extremities where it thickens and congeals.

And he also thinks that Qyburn, because this could be following the same path as Willis and why they both fled the Citadel, maybe for playing with those mysteries that they were not supposed to be playing with. Yeah, I thought this was really interesting. I did not remember Maester Willis, so thank you for calling that out. And it does seem really plausible, like, you know, So thank you for calling that out. And it does seem really plausible, like, you know, because we know that Cold Hands isn't Benjen based on the manuscript that was at the, what, Cushing Library, despite what the show might tell you. And there is a puzzle right behind Cold Hands, but it's not, it's not something that like, might be a really big character that i mean no so this is i think this kind of fits yeah i think it's important enough in the scheme of the plot but not too important and i think i feel like cold hands is definitely someone we don't know like no one's thinking of it right away not someone under your nose if he is a maester and like tying it with kyburn or even like tying it with or like with marwin we already know that sam and brand's stories intersect with one another so this is

another way that they could tie together even more right that's a great point i like that i really like this theory i like maester willis or wireless whatever you want to say leo liah liar george rr martin I like Maester Willis or Wylus, whatever you want to say. Leah, Lyah, Liar George R.R. Martin. Beliefs. George lied. Leah's died. I like this theory a lot about Maester Willis, Wylus. Good.

Nicely done. Nicely done, Thunderclap. Thunderclap. Yes, I did. I do get it. Nicely done, Thunderclap. Thunderclap. Yes, I did.

I do get it. So our last thing that we got before we get on in is from our friend over at Twitter, at Weirdwood Throne, who put out a great thread after Brand 7 in Clash talking about the parallels of the Clash prologue with a maester amidst a smoking ruin, right, with Dragonstone. And then the finale with Bran's final chapter and Luwin dying in Winterfell and some of those great emotional beats between the two, tying them together with prophecy and with rulership and with identity and lies.

And it's a really great thread. I have linked it here. You should all read it. And it's a great analysis in that we know that George does think about how can I tie these books together, right? Like in terms of structure and thematics. And I think that Weirwood Throne, apt name, does a great job of tying it all together yes all right so we are here but not quite yet but almost there again this is girl gone canon chloe's show um and she has some things to say about a storm of swords brand two please anticipate that this might also happen again for a storm of swords brand three who knows thank you eliana thank you for having me on on my podcast today i'm so excited to be here having me on on your podcast today

i wanted to talk a little bit about what brand two means to me the title of my eighth grade book project today here's what brand two and a storm of Swords means to me. This is one of my favorite chapters, famously, based on a lot of parts of it. It's up there with perfect chapters. Sansa 7 in this book is also a very good chapter. There's a certain flirtation of this chapter from a very meta sense, right? Your cleverest reader has to piece together a puzzle as George goes along through Mira's voice to see if you have it all, to see if it's all clicking, if you understand who is this lord with this thing? Who is that lord? Who is this lady they're

talking about in code? And then you get interrupted throughout the story in such an annoying sense of Mira and Jojen stopping and being like, wait, are you really listening? Did you hear this? Are you sure you don't know this story already? And it's funny because they're not just speaking to Bran, right? But they're speaking to the reader. They're reaching through the page and saying to you, are you paying attention? It's not only that, but it's also kind of a war story, right? Like we open the first half, we have the little who is out there in the cave.

And there's kind of this secret agreement where they're not telling each other who they are, even though they know who they are, even though the symbols of legitimacy for both of who these people are, are right there. They're not exchanging that information. And it becomes a travelogue, starting with the war of the North and moving into howland's actions during robert's rebellion right giving us these small glimpses at what the north has already given for the south small experiences and people that show us the north's involvement like theo wool we don't get the full story on him but mira says uh my father knew him he went south with him well she doesn't say what

happened to theo wool but we know what happened to theo wool but we know what happened to theo wool right we know what happened outside of that tower that he was slain at the tower of joy and not only do these characters in this chapter start to unravel here but they start to unravel in different places throughout the book right aria's chapter is also a really great throughout the book, right? Arya's chapter is also a really great story that intersects with Bran's story without really physically doing so. In Storm, she's hearing the other side of a lot of these stories. She's hearing about some of these characters from the Rebellion. She's even re-meeting some of these characters from the Rebellion. There's even some mysterious appearances and disappearances that we'll probably talk about today, like Richard Lonmouth possibly appearing into the plot in the very same book,

and the Brotherhood kind of being a twisted echo of Robert's Rebellion writ small. The mystery of this chapter and what surrounds it is one of the fandom's most lusted-after enigmas, right? The answers to Robert's Rebell rebellion lie just beneath the surface. If we can only dig deeper mixed with that innocence of storytelling, something that remains so central for not only Bran's plot, right? Who we opened the story with old Nan and her stories. And that's part of his story, right?

Keeping those stories, preserving them, opening with his father, the stories his father taught him, something that also remains central to his Song of Ice and Fire's themes, to the song itself. I think about the theories that this chapter alone is able to like stem in the community and essays and podcasts. And I think it's just a very powerful favorite chapter of mine that it tells the story of the little Cranog man who could to Bran the Broken Boy, who also could. And also that it tells the story of his kin, of his family that he's so sorely missing and of his pack that he never got to know.

That's a great summary of what makes this chapter so important, right? As you said, it ties together with everything else. what makes this chapter so important, right? As you said, it ties together with everything else. It kind of, speaking of the structure of books, it kind of encapsulates and is a sort of like archstone, right? That holds together the entirety of A Storm of Swords. A lot of it turns around this.

And you're going to walk us through it. We're going to dig into it. You talked a little bit about how we're gonna see a Stormlord, so let's jump into our lightning round. Yeah, today's lightning round. We kept it stark, plus the one Dany and Sam chapter. Sorry Davos, Jaime, Tyrion.

Come back again next week. See you later. Goodbye. Goodbye. And kick it off, Alyana, with some Arya 2. Yeah, Arya 2. Arya and her team of scamps are caught by a new band of brothers. But this time, there's something familiar about some of them. Catelyn too. Catelyn awaits her punishment by the king, but he crawls back with his tail between his legs. Because the young pup has taken a new wife.

Gasp. because the young pup has taken a new wife. Gasp. John too. John daydreams of attacking Mance, but at night, sleeps inside of Ygritte. Yeah, he does.

Sansa too. Sansa's given a new dress, but the motives for having said dress are ulterior. Arya three. Hot Pie stays at the inn to live out his baking dreams, and Aria and Gendry continue on with the brotherhood without banners. Samwell 1. Sam runs from ice zombies and bravely slays one with obsidian. Catelyn 3. Robb must decide what to do when one of his men betrays him. Betrayal.

Arya four. Arya meets the ghost of High Heart. Daenerys two. Frustrated in the night, Daenerys takes Eerie for a lover. She ponders how she will lead compared to her family members. And boy, are we

at a chapter to talk about that. Brand 2. Stories are like old friends. You have to visit them from time to time. Aw, like every single week over the course of several years. Until we die. Or next month if you want to revisit

His Dark Materials Season 3. Okay. until we die yeah or next month if you want to revisit his dark materials season three okay so brand two begins with them walking along graystone peaks blue lakes piney woods a lot of great natural imagery here that is not in fact from the wolf pov the forest floor carpeted and needles looking into the clear cold night for the ice dragon tune into our coverage of the ice dragon from last month the blue star in the dragon's eye points them north osha had told bran this once and he thinks about her wondering where she and rickon are and imagines them safe and warm eating eels and crab pie with lord manderly or even warming themselves at Last Hearth. But maybe this is just projection because Bran's days are now up and down, up and down, as Meera describes them, cold and spent on Hodor's back.

They're probably having a very bad time, Osha and Rickon, right? Like they're probably in the autumn, borderline winter storms to Skagos. They're probably, everything's horrible. Yeah. I mean, everything like it might be horrible. It might not. They're not eating eels and crab pie. They might be eating people.

Who knows? They, yeah, they are not at all where Bran thinks they might be. And I mean, everyone's having a bad time right now. Like they're going up and down because of all these mountains, but also it's life is a roller coaster, you know? It's like I don't go on roller coasters. This is really great advice that you could give to Bran.

You know, last week I said, what, don't Grand Theft Auto that boat. This week you're like, don't do roller coasters, Bran. These are really sensible. Mira says she hates Prince Bran's stupid mountains. Knows she loved them yesterday and says her lord father told her about mountains, but she'd never seen one until now. So now she hates them.

But she says she also both loves and hates them. And Bran says, I don't know how someone can feel two things at once. That they are different, like night and day. Or even like ice and fire. Westeros Mountains, real quick. I just was thinking about what mountains Howland would have seen. Right? Because the most mountainous populated geography

is really in the Vale, where you have Hedman's Mount and the Three Sisters and the Giant's Lance in the Vale and Mountains of the Moon. And in the north, you have the northern mountains that we're literally in right now, exploring the northwest side of the north, located kind of west of the King's Road,

south of the Gift. Beyond the wall, you have the Fork Top, which is in the Frost Fangs, and then the Frost Fangs themselves. And finally, we have the Red Mountains in Dorne, dividing Dorne in the south from like the Stormlands and the Reach to the north. Houses in this area are Blackmont, you have High Hermitage, the Danes, Kang's Grave, Skyreach Starfall, Wael, and Ironwood. And of course, these mountains contain the ruins of the Tower of Joy and the Vulture's Roost. So it would have been the Red Mountains he told her about, right? Yes, I think so. I mean, these mountains, we come back to them quite a few times, especially during, you know, the World of Ice and Fire when we learn about some of the Targaryen attempts at conquest. So these are prominent mountains, and I do think it sounds like Howland would have seen them.

We know he went to the Tower of Joy, but- And he went to Starfall. Yeah, he went to Starfall. And he went to Starfall. Yeah, he went to Starfall. And also, I feel like you're talking about a different set of mountains, though. Like, the way that, you know, we have those mountains that are named for... Oh my god. Missy and Missy's teats?

Yes, the Missy, yeah. The Red Mountains. Are they also Azshara's titties? Discuss amongst yourselves. Anyways. We will get to some tangential, not just about the titties though, later on. I'm really glad that you understand

that when I speak, it's usually about Howland and Ashara. Like even if I'm not saying it, as we get to the end of this chapter into the story, I think it's just important to look at the perspective that the story comes from.

All the details and like, do all these details really come from Howland alone? That's all I'm asking. There's a lot of details throughout these stories that make you wonder the depth that could have come from Howland or could have come from another parent. I don't know. I don't know. One with mountains. If ice can burn, said Jojen in his his solemn voice then love and hate can mate mountain or

marsh it makes no matter the land is one one his sister agreed but over wrinkled other than the the land is one that seems pretty important right but also mean, we talk a lot about this line of if ice can burn, then love and hate can mate, right? Of things being paradoxically encapsulated in one thing, right? And the complexity of ideas and of people, etc. I feel like what I've said kind of is enough because we've talked about it probably in like, don't know a bazillion episodes throughout our podcast that's how that's my take on that i love that it is very much like shades of gray versus black and white right like mirrors like yeah the land is one but it's overly wrinkled there's too many wrinkles in it too many complications you know it harkens back to what like melisandre's onion is what it makes me think of is you either good or you are bad.

And I'm like, no, you can cut that hunk out. Yeah, it makes me think of like Walt Whitman's, one of my favorite lines from his poetry right of, do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes. Yes, yes. Quote it daily. I do. Bran constantly reminds them the King's Road would get them to the Three-Eyed Crow and flying faster. They'd find much more food that way, too. Meera's hunting skills are great, and Summer would be able to find more food for them to hunt. I feel this, Bran. We also see Bran increasing in his affection towards Meera, right?

He clearly admires her strength, her agility, and skill. And interestingly, some of what he seems to admire in Meera kind of parallels what he enjoys about being summer in terms of being strong, fast, and good hunter. And it kind of feels like is there a sort of triangulation here, right? The things that he may one day desire from Me mira are actually the things that he wants for himself in regards to mobility or who he had hoped to be i like that you've called that out because there's also that need and want that he wants to be able to protect his friends and also contribute to their protection

or contribute to their day and being physically limited makes it so like like summer like for him right now he's sending summer out in the woods but he's not finding really a ton of food he's finding a little food but not a lot where they are and he yearns to be able to give them something in exchange for the protection and the kindness that they're affording him and he feels guilty right now he feels like all he's doing is failing at the only mission he has. He has no other options that can give him that little dopamine hit of, I've done something for the group. That kind of makes a lot of sense in the context of the littles that we'll talk about in a second. So Jojen remains stubborn in his desire to stay away from the roads, right, where travelers can be found and who would spread rumors about their queer little party.

And I honestly, Jojen's got it right. And the desire to be a hidden like royal and staying away from the main road is kind of reminiscent of Brienne and Jaime, right? Sneaking out, sneaking through the Riverlands to get back to King's Landing and wanting to also avoid identification. And through Brienne and Jaime being caught and them being like, wow, we know that person, even though he looks less good than he used to. Apparently Jojen's fears

are very warranted. Great way to tie that together because that is like happening right now. That there's so much of Arya, right in these chapters as well she just was scooped up and recognized by the brotherhood who say they have good motivations which to some points they do especially in comparison to others but they still take her and ransom her for money compared to the little they meet here that we'll talk about later there's definitely a little innocence and brands leading still going on right the boy is still very much there like osha and rickon are probably hanging at white harbor and also here why don't we take the king's road bitch we're hiding and i say that affectionately brand yeah that's kind of funny that you you talk about how he's idealizing what's happening right

like doesn't i think aria and even Sansa, right, idealize what the other might be going through. They're like, they're probably fine. Nobody is fine right now, okay? None of your family is fine. They're gonna get worse, but. The only coping they have is that, is just lying. We lie now, that's what we do.

Yeah. The idea that Bran thinks that, you know, they would be safe on the King's Road, I think that there are absolutely valid critiques of Ned's parenting. But since this chapter is about things being more than one thing at once, yeah, Ned didn't necessarily prepare his children for the dangers of the outside world or when it came to politicking, etc. But I think there's also an aspect of it that is kind of a good testament to Ned's parenting in that if Bran feels safe about what the King's Road entails, that shows that for their children, Ned created a world where his children felt safe. And I think that's kind of nice, right, to create a world where they can feel comfortable and that things would be welcoming. Though, yes, of course, it does show Bran's naivete. He just didn't have enough time with him yeah and it's something you you kind of tell your kids you start exposing them to those things like a little later right not at nine but i mean you do gotta tell them some yeah you do gotta tell them kind of like something's like yo be careful look both ways when you cross the street well like he tells cat in the very beginning that he plans to take them. That's true.

It's time. It's been well past. And I think there's actually a lot of... There's a lot of Ned in this chapter. There literally is. But there's some interesting stuff to be gleaned with Bran and Ned towards the end of this chapter after we get the Harrenhal story. They're put in very similar positions.

That is true. And the Depression might be one of them yeah they struggle through rainy days windy days days full of sleet climbing higher moving a little more north each time to be fair to them this is a difficult climb and the elevation probably makes it even harder not just the weather right because that's even less less oxygen they have just poor multipliers going on for them all around it really sucks mira asks if anyone lives up in this area of the north and he tells her about the umbers the wools the harclays the knots littles norries and even flints of the mountains ned's grandma actually was a flint. Nan would say this was where Bran got his foolish climbing blood from.

Meera remembers a wool. She's like, oh yeah, a wool, a Theowool, whom you were talking about earlier, who died at the Tower of Joy in Eddard's group. He had been called Buckets. Bran says, oh yeah, that's because that's their sigil. Three brown buckets on a blue field, a border of white and gray checks surrounding it. Lord Wool had come to Winterfell once, but while they may call him a lord, he isn't really technically a lord by his people. He's the Wool, and the knots are similar.

So are the Norries and the Littles. I really like all the little mountain clans of the north. Their names are cute. They actually remind me of hobbits? Like, just the names do? I don't know. They're very Tolkien-esque. What isn't, really, truly, as I, Chloe, who have read three chapters of Lord of the Rings,

could comment here. It's sneaking up on you all. Someday it's going to be five. Someday it's going to be ten. You just keep listening and find out. Watch out, people. Watch out for Chloe. five someday it's gonna be ten you just keep listening and find out watch out people watch out for chloe we've been introduced to the mountain clans the veil in the story and we have not yet met the northern clans right this is really our biggest one-on-one meeting and it's interesting

how westeros looks at the veil mountain clansmen, there's even a little bit, like, they're definitely different than the North clansmen. They're depicted as savage and, like, free folk, or as Westeros would say, they're more like wildlings in their eyes, but who cares what nobleborn people think, truly. The Northern clans kind of have a little

more respect. They're treated like petty lords, like, lower nobility, and they're generally referred to as clans with a clan leader or chief. So like we learn here, he's called the wool, but all of them are, right? The nori, the knot, they're all called the. And we actually see this bleed over with Mance, right? The Mance. And I almost, I don don't know i think it definitely seems to stem from first man tradition because you also have the stark in winterfell which i do think that seems to have stemmed from it in a couple of ways makes me curious if this is like a first man tradition

that's been passed down but the mountain clansmen in the north are literally just free folk born on the right side of the wall that's all they are they were born on the correct side of the wall and you see them having kind of chiseled a life out for themselves under the north's rule if you look at the free folk on the other side of the wall there's really i mean the we meet torment we meet some of these characters through john's plot up close, and they're not that different, in my opinion, right? Like, someone just plopped a wall between them all, and they've gone from there. The mountain clansmen in the north really live kind of on their own terms. They check in if there's some crazy disagreement.

The northern lord calls them down and is like bang your heads together we're gonna get this shit done with and i'm gonna decide it for you but otherwise you don't hear from him much they live their own lives it's like the berlin wall i guess you know and literally a cold war because it's literally up there no i'm being serious it's literally a cold war and i wouldn't be surprised if george was inspired i mean that was a pretty big thing that happened during his lifetime and yeah they're they're different in some ways right like for example we see that there is a diversity of different cultures north of the wall that varies by tribes but there is still like a lot of elements that tie them together with these mountain clans and with even some of the other northern lords and i i have a few things to say about that later but in regards to the the right the

stark and winterfell we see them apply it later on to the ned right this sort of article and what it entails in regards to leadership and i forgot i want to say someone like called it out as being inspired by maybe or possibly inspired by a real world culture once on the subreddit but i cannot remember that for any of you anymore but yeah it is i kind of wonder if would the mountain clans in the veil have developed differently and not being seen that way if not for the fact that their lord their lord param, became an Andal, right? Like that they were conquered by the Andals, whereas here in the North, they retained that First Men leadership.

I think that comes a lot off of the past, right? With the Andal conquering and the Battle of the Seven Stars. The Battle of the Seven Stars is one of their biggest things that happens in the valen history basically the premier historical battle during the andal invasion at the foot of the giant's lance so i think that's really interesting that that transition into andal culture definitely isolated them and pushed them away and i do think coming back to it like i i would say the mountain clansmen are like tribal

lords really is what they're close to that's what it sounds like right they're still considered lords at winterfall which is so funny but not i guess amongst their people so jojan asks if the mountain folk know that they are there and brin says yes actually he had seen them while he was watching through summer's eyes but as long as they don't steal any of the mountain folk's things, they would not be bothered. They encountered mountain people only once. It was during a freezing rain. And Bran thinks that the person that they met was a little, wearing a squirrel-skin cloak that fastens with a gold and bronze pine cone, which is their sigil.

And I mean, he's probably right, as we see that sigils can sometimes, just the clasps, can stand in for someone with a brand's not brand's burnt body. Y'all know. And I don't know. Golden Broad seems pretty fancy. The little in his company offer them oatcakes, blood sausages and a swallow of ale, but never his name nor theirs. I love everything the scene stands for because it's like the opposite of the broken man. It's how do you trust a stranger on the road and what comes when you and a stranger trust one another and

what happens when you help your neighbor out and when you're able to give your neighbor something right that they need on the road. I just it's very it's nice to see right in the midst of all this war in the north that's just slowly bubbling up to the surface and bitches get inflated and all that. It's a nice exchange. It is. It reminds me a little bit of two biblical things in regards to the parable of the Good Samaritan, right? The person who stops by and provides aid to that beat up person, even though a lot of other people who were supposed to help him did not. Also that idea that what, I'm gonna misquote this,

but when Jesus said something like, you know, when you help your neighbor, like care for someone, the hungry or whatever, you are caring for me, right? Because you don't really know. I actually just called Jesus to fact check this and you're wrong.

Oh, thank you. Well, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I didn't i didn't i i thought i was gonna misquote him so yeah i know i just wanted to give you shit but that's true like that it's it's like in the name of the king's justice right when you do things in the name of the king except the king's not a god obviously because that bitch dies except for in this one where maybe he a little he's a little maybe not a king maybe a god emperor who knows a worm a worm uh so i have not tried oat cakes i would like to uh we are also a food podcast so we're going to talk about this i have never tried european style blood sausages but i am a big fan of Korean style blood sausages.

I have, I might've tried Thai, Thai blood sausages. It's definitely not Filipino ones, but there's one that is not that far from you, Chloe, that I highly recommend that I love. It's a white yak in Manayunk.

It's a Tibetan restaurant. Super good. Their blood sausage. It's got like, it's also herbal. It's very good. I highly recommend. I'm interested. Get the mung bean jelly noodle things too those are so good i must say eliana has flown to a different place she is skin changed into a bird of a different feather

and she's gone from me and i just wish she was here to order for me all the time damn i know who to trust with my stomach. It's you. This is a food podcast. Bran asks if it's far to the wall, and the not-so-little-little says, not so far as the raven flies, farther for them as lax wings.

I thought that was very interesting, like a little riddle on your way to go find your new Jedi. Well, maybe not Jedi, Sith Master, whatever you want to call him. Bran tries to say they should take the King's Road, and he's cut off by Meera, who finishes his sentence. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we should take the King's Road. But the little actually doesn't agree with Bran. He's like, I'm the goddamn prince, this is bullshit. Even the anonymous prince.

The little says, And Prince, this is bullshit. Even the anonymous Prince. The little says, When there was a stark and winter fell, a maiden girl could walk down the king's road in her name-day gown and still go unmolested. And the travelers could find fire, bread, salt at many an inn and hold fast. But the nights are colder now, and doors are closed. There's squids in the wolf's wood,

and flayed men ride the king road, asking after strangers. The reeds exchanged a look. Flayed men? said Jojen. The bastard's boys. Aye. He was dead, now he's not, and paying good silver for whiff skins, a man hears, and maybe gold for word of certain other walking dead. He looked at Bran when he said that and at summer stretched out beside him so regarding doors being closed the little talks about a stark and winterfell it sounds like people had more of that sense of community and collective support

throughout the north not just for their immediate family but for one another in general and it sounds as though having the stark and winterfell and especially ned really encouraged this idea of the pack survives not just for his immediate family but for everyone in the north and ideally i am sure he felt that way about everyone in westeros he probably did or would have considering that he went all the way to the south for his friend robert and did do that very nice thing for cersei we also have some wordplay some mild foreshadowing here right about the bastard's boys and how he was dead but now he's not uh because you know john snow right a bastard motherless damned he is a bastard boy who is going to be dead and now not and then finally i would like to say that the little, after he says all this stuff,

and then he looks at Bran and Summer, like, I think that is peak comedy. He's just like, hmm. He's like, interesting, because they're all standing right by me. All these people that are being sought. Yep, he's like, hmm, why would he be looking for that? For some wolf skins. Looks, looks, looks. I like what you've said about the north though because it's

like living in hard mode right like you don't you don't just like choose to live in the north no one just chooses to live there and it's like if you lead the north you have to understand it is a different land than the south and there are different customs and there are different ways to stay fucking alive

with blizzards and snows. And there are great things and terrible things. And both of those can mate, if you will. Both great and terrible things can mix together. It's a hard land and a hard people, as we've been told. And I think that's another important part of having a leader in the North that understands that. Brings everyone together. That's kind of good leadership that's what i guess mance accomplishes now that i think about it anyway i also love you know i love the quiet respect between travelers right the obvious secret they share of being anonymous and that to survive life

is now that you must either go anonymous and move quickly and quietly in the night or face you know certain dangers i also love that basically he's just saying like i'm dreaming of a smaller country life back in the day like the olden days like 2000 when you could leave your back door unlocked and no one was gonna break in and steal your playstation and slaughter your hands and you know the north used to stand for something, used to mean something. I appreciate that. I liked that conversation.

It was like back in my day, the North mattered. Yeah, he really does feel that way. And I mean, it's coming back to what we talked about a couple of weeks ago, right? Like that the North has watered down. I'm not even sure he means like that far back, right? He means like a year ago when your dad was a live brand. He did a great job.

We loved him. He's like, I didn't vote for him, but I guess he's fine enough. Yeah. No one voted, by the way. No one voted. No one at all. They were like, I don't know. Brandon could have been good too, but.

He's dead. Yeah. So is this one. So is this one. So. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. So he continues on telling them, I wouldn't go to the wall. I don't know why he's southern now.

And he says the old bear went into the woods and only the ravens returned without message. Dark wings. Dark words. He says that it was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and the young one's gone south to play the Game of Thrones and all that's left us is the ghosts, and then we get... one of my favorite exchanges. The wolves will come again, said Jojen solemnly. And how would you be knowing, boy? Wow, god, it's southern now, what is happening here?

I dreamed it. Some nights I dream of me mother that I buried nine years past. But when I wake, she's not come back to us. There are dreams and dreams, my lord. Hodor, said Hodor. I actually want to say that I'm curious what Hodor means by agreeing here. I feel that Hodor has some sort of knowledge. No, I'm being very serious.

I know you are. If anyone's experienced dreams versus dreams, it is Hodor who has been on the other end of one. Okay. I will say a couple of fun things here, though, in regards to these lines of the all that's left us is ghosts for example maybe i don't know like ghost the wolf but also all of these undead children kind of like bran right here not those other undead children like carsey's undead children i mean like bran here and it's like this is this is what we mean right this is what we are left with. That's what you mean. But also in regards to dreams of people coming back, because this is in fact now a possibility for some of the characters in this series, as we will see at the end of this book, actually within this book with the Brotherhood.

Like, I don't know. Yeah, I'm sorry your mother never came back little, but Bran's mother is going to. She's going to die and come back at the end of this book and some of the Stark children do in fact dream about her. So sorry that you are not a chosen one, little. But speaking about the magicalness of being chosen ones, it is interesting that it's a little, right, on the mountain clans who, you know, you were talking about how they keep a lot of that first man culture and tradition. Yet it seems as though the Mountain Clans don't really seem to be keen or like tied to this belief of magic. We talked a little bit about that diversity of culture, faith and belief amongst Northerners on a broader level.

But it's interesting which where it gets lost over the years and amongst which people. Yeah, there was something interesting Thunderclap had emailed us and he had a great handful of thoughts, but he had actually mentioned was Little maybe a tri-wannabe greenseer and didn't make it. And I thought that was an interesting take on it because of the way he says,

some nights I dream of me mother I buried nine years past, but when I wake, she's not come back to us. I don't think he's a dreamer though because we'll probably never talk to him in this book again you know maybe in tiwao maybe in a dream of spring maybe not maybe he dies who knows it's pretty cold out there you know like yeah what does happen to him if you're cold he's cold let him in let him in unlock that sliding glass door you know that is how the little felt about these kids he He's like, if I'm cold, they're cold.

Let them in. And that's the thing, though, is like, it's very funny that you're sitting here and you're like, well, maybe you're just not special, little, because I'm over here on the opposite end of the spectrum. And I'm like, dreams don't always save normal people in the night out in the call from the crow like Bran, who has a journey and a reason to traverse through these horrible conditions. I think that's pretty important for the average northerner who doesn't get fucking dreams sent to them by a crow from, you know, a man that's attached to a tree. I think that's an important part of Bran's plot he's going to have to weigh. We have that Daenerys chapter right before this, pretty much where she takes Eyrie as a lover, and she takes Eyrie as a lover. And Bran really struggles with taking things for himself or not as well so far. Yeah, he starts getting to the point where he does. But I guess part of it is like, the people who are north of the Wall, the Free Folk, who share similar culture,

they've seen magic. It's literally trying to kill them so they're like yeah i don't know dreams could be real too right osha is one of those and the mountain clans have not yet yet so they spend the night in the cave avoiding the rain but summer wants to leave when the fire dies bran lets summer go because rain doesn't really affect him the same as humans he's got a big fuzzy coat on his body and he needed to zoom he's got that's all i can hear here throughout any of this is that like i can just hear summer in the background going zoom zoom zoom zoom gotta zoom gotta zoom gonna run like i just imagined bran letting summer out of the cave and going, all right, Summer,

go on, go zoom. And Summer's going, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. I'm gonna run. So. I thought you were gonna go zoom, zoom, zoom. I don't know. Supernova girl. Yeah.

From Xenon girl, the 21st century. I should have. And I'm sorry that I didn't do that. It's okay. We can do it again. Do you want me to? No, it's all right. The moment's okay. We can do it again? Do you want me to? No, it's all right. The moment's passed.

I do want to say that this, there's just beautiful imagery here. There's this line. Moonlight painted the wet woods in shades of silver and turned the gray peaks white. Owls hooted through the dark and flew silently through the pines while pale goats moved along the mountain sides. Bran closed his eyes and gave himself up to the wolf dream, to the smells and sounds of midnight. Meanwhile in summer, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, gotta zoom, gotta zoom, zooming around. I guess it's cool, whatever,

zoom. In the morning, the little had gone, but left them sausage, a dozen oat cakes folded in green and white cloth, and some of the cakes had blackberries, some of them pine nuts. Bran ate one of each, and he wasn't sure which one he liked best. If you don't miss it, though, green and white is the little house color. Just so you know. Just so you all know. It's a little. Bran knows. Meera and Jojen did not as diligently, I guess, study sigils.

But that's not their job. That's Bran's job. Homeschooling is different in the neck. Yeah, and also, I mean, I guess they know how to not fall into a bog. That seems important, too. Has the North even standardized tests? I don't know yet. I don't think so.

Probably not. One day there would be Starks in Winterfell again, he told himself, and then he'd send for the Littles and pay them back a hundredfold for every nut and berry. Aw, so sweet. You know he will, too. Oh, yeah, I do. The last page of the book better be that. Oh my god, turns out that's what George was referencing. You were talking earlier about how brand wants

to protect his friends right he he wants to pay them back for the protection that they're giving him and this is kind of an example of that brand really shows gratitude for the kindness that he receives he doesn't really show entitlement to it when you come especially when you compare it to another prince who's or kings i'm sorry he's a king right now joffrey who expects to be wined and dined right as we see at the beginning of a game of thrones when he takes out on that excursion oh that's right wind and dined more like wind and died died fucked around and found out yeah yeah he is the anti-Joffrey in this moment, right? This is how a prince, because at the time, Joffrey was a prince during that time. That's how a prince should behave, graciously, not taking advantage of his constituents.

Yeah. Especially those who have less. So Bran has nothing right now. Also, they do not get to vote again. Sorry, just making sure we're all clear I think that the North is kind of in a way sort of voting-ish right now yeah we don't vote for

fucking Ramsay that's for sure they also do not vote for Theon do not forget that they did not vote for Theon we don't know who we vote for but it's not them and not not the Lannisters. Also not them, so. We're starting to run out of candidates. Starting to

get out of candidates here. And not the others. Not the others. Fuck. Now we're really fucked. The trail they follow the next day is easier, and the sun starts to poke through. Bran takes a nap, and he's lulled by Hodor's steps, and Meera wakes him up to point out an eagle in the sky floating in the wind circling higher.

Bran, of course, is jealous and he tries to reach the eagle himself, but the eagle vanishes off into the afternoon. So, this eagle stood out, because we don't see a lot of eagles in the north I feel like anymore, in chapters. of eagles in the north I feel like anymore in chapters. I'm thinking this is Aurel's eagle, especially because of those lines of intersection for plot as we get towards Jon, right? Especially with the next Bran chapter because Bran comes across Jon in the next chapter in his little plane. So I'm pretty sure this is Aurel's dead ass spirit because aurel dies this is before varamir has conquered the eagle and i thought it was interesting that bran tries and is unable to shake aurel out of the eagle and i know obviously bran has not experienced skin changer so he can't easily jump into birds yet and later right when we get to a dance with dragons adobada he's just burdened all over the fucking place but it also brings up that age-old question of that physical body versus spirit right like what's

stronger what exists longer and it makes me think of john too or even rob uh living in living without a physical body on in their animal absolutely it's it's kind of that sort of threefold reveal right that george likes to give and this is one of oral Absolutely. It's kind of that sort of threefold reveal, right, that George likes to give. And this is one of, Oral's one of those examples of that, right? You start getting hints of, hey, maybe he is still there. And he is. He is still in there. Yeah, you know, John too, there's that chat in A Storm of Swords or that chat, that thought where he sees the eagle and it's Oral's bird and he thinks, can a bird hate? And some part of the man still remained within the eagle, he thinks. And he, you know, he feels it.

He like holds his face and poor, poor John with that eagle ripping his face apart. And then you have John 10, where he speaks to Varamyr. The skinchanger was gray-faced, round-shouldered, bald, a mouse of a man with wolfling's eyes. Once a horse is broken to the saddle, any man can mount him. Once a beast's been joined to a man, any skinchanger can slip inside and ride him. Aurel was withering inside his feathers, so I took the eagle for my own. But the joining works both ways, Warg. Aurel lives inside me now, whispering how much he hates you. And I can soar above the wall and see with his eagle eyes.

So we haven't gotten to Varamyr conquering Aurel's eagle yet. But interesting if Bran had taken Aurel into him there. That would have been very interesting if he had been able to conquer that bird and if he does get a little infected by taking someone else's mount ever i kind of like the pettiness of yeah i hear oral he hates you and i had also you know what the saying is right it's coming back to what jojen says if ice can burn burn then a bird can hate. That's basically it. That was what it said. Then a bird can hate.

A bird can hate. And I mean that horse broken, right? A little foreshadowing for Hodor. But God! Glossing over that the wood dancers of the Children of the Forest were also said to have called on eagles

to fight on their behalf, which I thought was interesting and birb-related when it comes to Bran in general. I forgot that. And also, it reminds, didn't we have like a similar eagle sort of reference or joke last chapter? It kind of feels like another one of those Lord of the Rings things.

Tolkien-esque three chapters in ken can burn yeah absolutely close an expert i am too i watch i watch the movies so miro promises they'll see others and then hodor hodors and then bran hodors as well in agreement and jojan remarks that hodor seems to like it when you say his name and bran explains well his name's not actually hodor it's it's walter right when we talk about walter on walter crimes hodor is involved he likes when you say hodor though and if it stands for hold the door which Which it probably does. He's like, okay, I'll hold it right now. Is it time for me to go? Bran wonders if old Nan was okay,

remarking, another person that's probably going to be dead, remarking, she never hurt anyone. She only told stories. Would Theon hurt her? Jojen says, some people hurt others just because they can. And Mira tries to comfort by saying it wasn't Theon doing the killing at Winterfell. Too many dead people were Iron Men and no one likes him. Okay, but Theon did do quite a bit of killing. There was killing done by Theon, first of all. Second, Theon, you know, it's a fascinating exploration that we get in a song of ice and fire

why do people hurt other people it's not always right and i think george likes to explore how people get to those motivations not justifying them but how people get to that point the broken man speech is a lot about that sometimes people they they do it because they feel they are lacking something right and they don't necessarily know or always care. And what I'm trying to get at here is why would someone hurt people? Some people hurt others just because they can. And there's a power aspect of that. And again, I just feel like, I don't know, I can't stop talking about it. I should probably stop. For me, it comes back again to, I mean, Bran hurting Hodor. That's what he's doing right because it's not right but also

george wants you to see how he gets to that point i i think it's more and maybe this is just from our linear our not linear reads of this story too but we haven't actually gotten there yet so i think it's more it's foreshadowing that's to come realistically i agree and i i bring it up all the time but we aren't even there yet he hasn't even done it yet eliana can you just calm down it just you can wait to be mad at how we get there i'm not mad i just like think it's interesting you know how we she's just disappointed no i think it's interesting and part of brand's story it's not right but that's the point, you know? You can love something and hate something at the same time. They're mountains.

And also, this is hilarious to me when Bran says, yeah, I don't know, I think Old Nan was like Hodor's grandmother's grandmother. Bran, how old do you think Old Nan is? Yeah, right. Definitely like, well, I mean, great-grandmother maybe at most, but not great-great. Agreed. Yeah. Like, I think that's a little too far back. I will say, though, I think it's important that he even, like, fucks it up and says that, because then you get to the Bloodraven reveal eventually, and understanding who the Three-Eyed Crow is now that it's been gardened in and what generation she comes from is from way back in the day when trees walked the earth i mean blood raven walked the earth yeah absolutely the saddest oh god there's so many great little sad banger quotes here remember old nan's stories brian remember the way she told them the sound of her her voice. So long as you do that, part of her will always be alive in you.

I'll remember, he promised. Promise me. Aww. Promise me. Promise me. They climb and climb, and eventually Bran asks, Do you have any stories? And they laugh and say a few, and he says he wants a story about knights.

There are no knights in the neck jojen says his sister corrects him and says above the water the bogs are full of dead ones jojen calls them frays fools iron men proud warriors who could not conquer gray water and thus drown in their steel we have this line of the thought of drowned knights under the water gave bran the shivers he didn't object though he liked the shivers brand you sicko what is this like 50 ac or whatever okay bran this kind of stood out for me because of the way that he says he liked the shivers and i don't think george thought of this until later, probably. But it makes me think of Jaehaerys and Alysanne's first child, who was also named Daenerys,

and she died of an illness called the shivers. She got a little bit too cold in the winds of winter. It made me think of that. It also made me think of dead things in the water from the Hardhome letter coming up oh things are gonna be bad in this neck I haven't thought about that are they all gonna just shroop out of the water I hope not oh my god I mean what if the the knight's king does the the shimmy thing and brings them wait that's just the show. But what if Euron does the shimmy thing? They all swim out?

I mean, you know, I've talked already. I've already given my spiel on bogs being dangerous. Don't fuck around in bogs, people. Again, I can barely stand up straight sober. So a bog? Eh. Mm-mm. Eh.

Mm-mm. So then Mira tells the story of the only knight that they know, who maybe was even a crannogman? Maybe not. But the knight of the laughing tree in the story of the only knight that they know, who maybe was even a crannogman? Maybe not. The knight of the laughing tree in the year of the false spring. Jojen thinks that Bran must have heard this one a hundred times, but turns out Bran hasn't. And even if he had, old Nan used to say that old stories are like old friends, you have to visit them from time to time. Ewoo.

And so the tale begins. A curious lad once lived in the neck. Small like all Cranog men, but brave, smart, and strong, too. He learned all the magics of the Cranog people, though he didn't have green dreams. He could breathe mud and run on leaves,

change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear. I love the language here. Then it goes on to say, but he wanted more, you know, and just... I want more. That's funny. You go, Ariel, I was thinking Belle.

They're similar. Yeah, very similar very similar similar we both went for an I want song oh we both went for Disney I was thinking yeah a big princess I want song and that's what Howlin Reed woke up on the day of his 16th birthday and said he's like I can't live like this sparkly eyed bushy eyed I love the way his skills are described here they're kind of described magically and from what we know of the crannog men they're not on a like kind of some of the dornish men in that they use guerrilla tactics right and they kind of use tactics that give them advantages over the land and give them advantages where they may have disadvantages. Some of it's magic, but some of it seems to be illusion, too.

Like, breathe mud. He's just really good at being able to be low in the mud without swallowing a bunch of it, probably. Let's be real. Some of it, I think, is a little... You know what I mean? Like, some of it is a little bit of an illusion between what it actually is, but definitely some of it feels magical.

And there is language that reminds me of something from the Bible, Peter 2, 3, 5 to 10. But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word, the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. And it brings me back to something we've talked about a little bit, a little courtesy of Manu over at the Nauticast, about the Hammer of the Waters. The Hammer of the Waters being the powerful magic used to fight against the First Men by the Children of the Forest at the climax of centuries-long wars.

And the devastation it causes turns the neck into bogs and swamps. Like, this is what actually turned the neck into what it is, and it led to a peace between the people for thousands of years. And with that said, it's interesting that he is able to change earth to water and water to earth. If that is a Cranog magic ability and he learned to be able to do that that's very interesting to be able to use water to crash earth yeah part of me so part of me i thought it was literal but the idea that an illusion is interesting because we do learn about glamours do you think that they might be glamours and not just physical like kind of like tricks sleights of the hand i do think that the castle appearing and disappearing is probably some sort of glamour.

Some sort of ancient Children of the Forest glamour. Because I was thinking about it, because running on leaves and breathing mud, which implies that he is probably a good climber and able to go from tree branch to tree branch and run on the leaves. I'm like, I can run on leaves howland that's not very impressive i can go outside right now that's a good point to me i took that as being in the in the trees and being one with the trees and with the land and breathing mud being able to traverse through the muddy bog without being detected or being slowed down or eating mud which can be detrimental i hear hear. And the changing earth

to water, water to earth is interesting. And talking to trees, we already know that one. Weaving words, making castles appear and disappear. That's very interesting. The weaving words kind of stands out to me in terms of spells. And also we were talking about the power of a word, right? And that is kind of what the story is about on a meta level, right? The power of a word, the power of narrative in terms of what you can make people believe in. I mean, in this, right?

Or the power of lies, stories. That's why it matters who, if you call someone a king, right? You turn someone into a king, that's just a word, right? But somehow that's powerful. But it also makes me think of this mechanic or this mechanic or this

power or whatever called from dungeons and dragons uh there was i think spells that were called power words especially like i think lich kings are famous for having power word kill and i don't know other magic users so kind of wonder if there's something with that too because george is into that i guess oh that's true no that's absolutely true huh i don't know uh but yeah that's true i hadn't thought about that you're right i couldn't run on leaves yeah it's not that fucking impressive i think howland and he needs to chill on what he presents to his daughter as cool mira i will I will protect you. We're not cranny men.

Yeah, you're a little too tall. That's from her mom. Cranny men seldom travel far from home, but this one, as you said, wanted more, and turns out he was often treated unkindly by the bigger people. Oh, reminds me a little of Penny and stuff. But this lad was bold, and when he reached manhood,

he decided to visit the Isle of Faces and find green men he donned his bronze scale shirt took up a shield and spear and paddled his boat down the green fork this kind of made me wonder do you think that not only did he give mira his helm but maybe his frog spear too his best frog spear and maybe even his best scale shirt i do think so i think that's kind of the implication in the story because they're like she's like he wore a shirt a lot like mine a spear just like mine i'm like is it just like it because it is that one i think so because this and i'm serious this is the entire mood is that this is passed down. Stories are passed down. Things are passed down.

Traditions are passed down through these families and through these people and through their cultures. This story alone starts off with a very important cultural story for the Cranogmen. Yeah, because words and stories have power. God, it's powerful. Stories are made of words. Not all stories. Most stories are, yeah.

A lot of them. Words are in those, too. I don't know. Sometimes it's just pictures, all stories sometimes most stories are yeah a lot of them words are in those too i don't know sometimes it's just pictures silent films but yeah whatever whatever we're not that advanced um and let's go to like i don't know look at k i mean words are still technically involved in silent movies and that you make words in your head about them but i digress and sometimes they have words on the screen they have captions you know what i mean yeah anyways tangential anyways we whatever we did that many days later howland meets the green men but mira says that's another story not for her to tell since this story is about nights and we fast forward to when that winter broke and he left the island road and road until he saw great towers rising beside a lake, the greatest castle in the world, Harrenhal.

Bran guesses. Was it? Meera smiles. Again, so coy. I don't know, was it? I love how coy they're playing through the story. And it's perfect because you can just imagine her walking along going, was it? Anyways, as I was saying.

Also, this kind of implies we're going to get the story about when he met the green men from Howland someday, in my opinion. I feel like we will. And also how long was he there? He must have learned a lot of stuff. Cause you know, if I say I stayed somewhere for a winter, I'm like, that was, I don't know, four months tops. Right. When he says he stayed, yeah, a winter. I'm like'm like oh was that like two years how long were you there that's a long ass time i have kind of had canon just because i have spent an extensive amount of time thinking about where and when howlin reed did things during the rebellion for no reasons anyways and they weren't done alongside ashara dane's timeline but

anyways so i have maybe spent an extensive amount of time thinking about it and i kind of think it was probably two years until he was 18 right he left at manhood at 15 16 probably left 17 18 all i know is it's longer than when i would have spent a winter somewhere well and why i say that is because george has put out like a rough when they were born kind of thing he's answered a question about how old they would be and they would be in their like mid-30s i think just like us oh wait not me not you like you i'm not an old hag yet give me a few years dark age it's coming for me i'm not gonna stay young and beautiful forever so i gotta get my good years

out you could i mean catelyn stark is apparently still young and beautiful until she's dead just curdled pudding pussy then she's young and i don't know sounds like she might still be kind of hot in a different way anyway you know jocks like the goth girls and we like Catelyn. So a great tourney took place with bright colors, champions from across the land, and even the king and his son, the dragon prince. Stream all four seasons on Netflix right now. Yes, yes. I mean, nothing is safe. I know that they said it was renewed, but please, nothing is safe. Please, please, please stream this for me. Stream the dragon prince. It's also amazing, but please, nothing is safe. Please, please, please stream this for me. Stream the Dragon Prince. It's also amazing, you know, talking about stories that teach you about complexity of characters and things not being just black and white.

You can tell that some of the people that work on the Dragon Prince like great fantasy works like A Song of Ice and Fire. That's all I'm going to say about it. Yep. Sorry, while we're still standing it. like a song of ice and fire that's all i'm gonna say about it yep sorry while we're still standing it it's also from one of the writers that worked on avatar the last airbender so if you liked that show go check out the dragon prince also the dragon prince if you want to sponsor us reach out to us at girls gone canon at gmail.com for any inquiries thank you they need all the budget they can get to give me the fifth season. I do not have, I'm worried

about Netflix. Dragon Prince don't sponsor us. I never say this, but do not sponsor us, Dragon Prince. Okay. Different Dragon Prince, though. We're talking about Rhaegar. But, yes, the Dragon Prince was there. The Kingsguard also came

to welcome a new brother to their ranks. The Stormlord was there. The Roselord. The Great Lion of brother to their ranks. The Storm Lord was there, the Rose Lord. The Great Lion of the Rock stayed away, quarreling with the king, but many of his men attended. Now this is easy mode, everyone at home. For you that are keeping up, these lords right now, easy mode, get ready, they're coming at you fast soon. The Crannog Man had never seen such pageantry and wanted nothing more than to be a part of it. Bran remembers how much he wanted to be a knight too. The daughter of the great castle reigned as queen of love and booty,

and five champions swore to defend her crown. The Kettleblacks, I mean, the Wents, sorry, four brothers of Harrenhal, and a famous uncle, a white knight of the Kingsguard, also a went. She was fair, but there were fairer ladies yet there. The wife of the dragon prince, and a dozen of her companions. The knights all begged for their favors to tie around their lances. Bran starts to get suspicious at this point about this being one of those love stories, and reminds Jojen that Hodor actually likes the stories about the knights fighting the monsters, so you know. And Jojen says sometimes the knights are the monsters,

Bran. Which, wasn't this around when Gregor got knighted? I mean, by Rhaegar Targaryen himself? Actually, literally, yeah, that's part of it. Gregor plays into the story, you know, and finding out that the knights are sometimes the monsters is part of his sister, Sansa's story, a big part of that, as well as, you know, the start of how Bran gained to be the way that he is right now. Yeah, major themes in the story. maybe a little swirly in there too right they beat him to the ground and call him a frog eater and brand wonders he's like that sounds like a walters right or no he thinks about that they sound like the walders and the crannogman remembered the squire's faces so that later he could take vengeance very the north remembers if you will as they beat him up a wolf made and brand's like wait wait hold on i need some clarification. Do you mean like a wolf on two legs or a wolf on four legs?

Because those lines are blurry for me right now. We get clarification. A wolf made on two legs comes to protect him. That's my father's man you're kicking. Lays into them and then takes the Kranigman back to the wolf's den where she nurses his cuts and bruises and introduces him to her pack of brothers. We've got a wild wolf. Brandon.

A quiet wolf. Ned. And the youngest pup. Benjen. The two-legged wolfmaid. Liana. Lyanna. Insists that the crannogmen.

Howland. Stay with them and attend the feast for the open of the tourney. That he is as much right as all the rest of the nobles to be there so i thought it was kind of funny that you know one of them is described as the quiet wolf it makes me think also of ghost the the wolf that literally makes no noises therefore is the quiet wolf and how john is in many ways actually ned's son spiritually even though he might be the dragon prince's son he's he's the quiet wolf yeah he definitely adapted and adopted ned's nature and

took that on that very solemn nature that serious nature serious and and the lord's kiss wow and exhibitionism if you take the last couple chapters here in the next couple chapters my god john just that's a great point fucking in the camp my god being into red-headed women yep everyone's like we all heard you and he's like good no he didn't say that he's like quiet wolf not a quiet wolf anymore right speaking of woman with ferocity in this story she was not easy to refuse this wolf maid so he let the young pup find him garb suitable to a king's feast and went up to the great castle under heron's roof he ate and drank with the wolves and many of their sworn swords besides barrowed in men and moose and bears and mermen.

The dragon prince sang a song so sad, it made the wolfmaid sniffle. But when her pup brother teased her for crying, she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the night's watch. The storm lord drank down the night of skulls and kisses in a wine cup war. The crannog man saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword,

a red snake, the Lord of Griffins, and lastly, with the quiet wolf. But only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench. Amidst all this merriment, the little Cranogman spied the three squires who'd attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat, a sigil that all Cranogmen know well. The phrase, said Bran, the phrase of the crossing. Then, as now, she agreed. The wolfmaid saw them too and pointed them out to her brothers. I could find you a horse and some armor that might fit, the pup offered.

The little Cranog Man thanked him, but he gave no answer. His heart was torn. Cranog Men are smaller than most, but just as proud. Aw. I love that. I love, I love them. I love the the stars yeah god i'm a filthy stark lover i'm so sorry filthy i don't know why there's something about a lot of now that this language and and people belonging right and deserve being deserving of respect as they talk about the crannogman being just as proud it makes me think of Tyrion too and how he's treated.

Yeah. That's all. That night, the Cranigman prayed to the old gods and the neck, staring at the Isle of Faces and then came to the tourney. Five days of jousting, a seven-sided melee, archery, axe throwing, singers, Coachella, you know, as we've discussed about tourneys. And of course, Jojen stops and says, you never heard this tale from your father? Bran says, it was old Nan who told the stories.

Mira, go on, you can't stop there. I kind of wonder, like, are Mira and Jojen, like, low-key offended? Like, are you sure? You really never heard this one? This is like the story of our dad's falling in bro love. Like, what do you mean he never talked about it?

Yeah, they're like, what the fuck? Why would Ned not talk about his best friend? He missed his life. I do think, maybe not offended, but, like, shocked? Surprised? Yeah. It's also gauging what he knows which is very important probably for them because this story means so much more than there was a mystery night it explains why howland is so intimately tied to the starks how the starks treat howland there at that tourney and how they raise

him up and his family right and and just that friendship and what it means to him and i don't know i i feel like there's so much this story that's like also bran everything that happened this day this week at this tournament is why the world is the way it is right now like why we're all here it's why you know robert was king it's everything i mean this story encapsulates a lot of his youth that he doesn't understand necessarily yet yeah it's the myth for how his father came to be how he is and his family and why there are so few starks right why is there no stark in winterfell anymore a lot of them died yeah a lot of things were different back then at the tourney and at the feast and if you break down the heron hall feast right at heron hall howlin eats with the Starks and their sworn bannermen. And this really

stood out to me this time in the context of the Northern houses vying for fair, just Ned's attention. You have House Dustin, Willem Dustin, Barbary's husband, goes south with Ned and dies. And it kind of makes you think, in a way, Bran's first chapters of the war, right? When Ned's gone, Robb has gone south. Bran is unexpectedly ruling, exactly as Ned was left after his brother Brandon and his father go south. They go south. They do not return. Ned is unexpectedly left ruling. Quiet, sad, solemn, lost his family, has to go off to war. Lord Dustin must have been somebody Ned could trust as a family friend, as his father's friend. Lord Dustin was probably off and around. Maybe even someone that was similar to like how Roderick could have been with Bran. They must have ruled really closely together in that beginning as they

went down south to war. If he went with him to the Tower of Joy, he was definitely trusted. It's really sad, actually. I haven't thought much about him before, but yeah, definitely. It explains why Barbary's so fucking mad. Yeah, but I mean, I guess that man chose to go himself, right? Yeah, that's true.

House Hornwood is there, who was pretty supportive of the Starks and is now, unfortunately, destroyed. Kind of ironic and sad when we look at it here. Like, oh, they were there. They were a celebrated northern house standing with Rickard and his family. House Mormont was there. This must be a different one, right? Because it can't be J.R. It can't be Jorah, so.

It must be someone else. It makes me curious. I would love to see Mage Mormont hanging out at the tourney at Harrenhal, though, just for funsies. She would have been younger. She would have had so much fun. Oh my god, she would have been

in the axe-throwing competition or something. She would have loved the drama. She would have kicked ass. House manderly is also there so again staunch support from house stark of the houses that we see there raygar sings a song that makes liana tear up is it jenny's song probably jenny's song especially with aria meeting the ghost of harrenhal literally a couple chapters ago, and her asking for her Jenny's song coming up. I would guess Rhaegar played Jenny's song

to make Lyanna cry. And when Benjen teases her, she pours wine on his head. Black Brother speaks, asks knights to join the North. Robert drinks down with Richard Lawnmouth, who is Lem Lemoncloak. Please go read Lady Gwyn's essay on it.

It's like a formative theory on it, and you should definitely read it. Howlin watches Ashara Dayne. He points out she has laughing eyes. Just so you know, every other person in this story has never commented on her eyes being laughing. They only

speak on her eyes being haunting or causing them guilt. Chew on that for a little bit. And then, because Howland has memorized the order of Azshara's dance card and still remembers it to this day in order of who she danced with,

she danced with a white sword which could have been Barristan or Arthur, Oberyn Martell, John Connington, and Ned after Brandon asks for him. Very interesting. Very interesting to break it down and think about it in perspective. I can't believe Howland has remembered that for so long. Yeah, he must love retelling it, right? Like, babe, babe. Or like telling the kids, kids, your mother is a hottie. Let me tell you.

I mean, that's, that's literally this entire chapter is how I met your mother. You know, that's really what it is. You're right. It's literally the story is in that kids is how I met your mother. Unfortunately, I think that's true of this. And there's a lot of stuff. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is it's like, to to me it sounds like one of those stories of like mom dad can you tell us about when you met again it's happy for them but i guess for ned it's like i'm not gonna tell you about my whole family time i do think that's a part of it for them it's like this happy story that they could carve out a little piece of survival right a little piece of like home and a little piece of stability but for ned it's the story of the his family all dying it's the story of trauma it's a story of why he

kept his family within the walls of winterfell for fucking you know 15 years without sending them out anywhere else to foster without socializing outside of the confines of there it's those gates of trauma that kept him and everything else in but they kept everyone safe and it goes back to like you were saying about bran he told bran that there is a world to look out for and to look forward to and there are things that are great and people that can be great to you and that's it because he never expected them to leave well and he didn't expect to die that early either probably

well who the fuck does I think some I'm trying to think there are definitely people who do in the story like Jamie seems like he might think that he could die early he doesn't until until now right hold my beer Jamie hold my beer

yeah yeah yeah I don't know He doesn't until until now. Right. Who else? Hold my beer, Jamie. Hold my beer. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I love Liana pouring wine on Benjen. It's a favorite.

Ultimate Aria hours. Right. But in the same story, we get her turning around and be like, oh, Howland, my brothers would definitely give you all of their clothes so we can get vengeance on these men. Don't worry, I already have it dialed in, which to me is very Sansa, right? Like that's very like princessly, like, oh, Howland, don't worry, we're already exacting a total plan for revenge. And I've told my brothers that they will need to be covering A, B, C, and D in order for this plan to happen. Very princessly. I the the dual sides of liana here of showing both of those roles i wouldn't ever want like we've talked about this i don't want the rebellion yes on a screen unless george has put the details out in books i do not want that and even then i

think that it does a lot it tells a lot of story by omission and by not telling story which is i mean that's a kink of mine for books i love when a story does that that that gets my little book goat gets my little wheels a turning but there is something charming about the idea of these teenagers like in their tourney tent doing stupid teenage things in the heat of the night and pacing around trying to figure out how to get vengeance on assholes and total teen dramedy love stories everywhere there's something very charming about it nothing like a tourney to get the blood hot we say yeah maybe it's like best told through gossip which is kind of what it is like what all these are like let me tell you about this gossip from 16 years ago it's still hot that's how good it was it's hard because a suave

literarily speaking literary speaking it gets me like that like george knows how to write whether you're reading world of ice and fire fire and blood and a song of ice and fire right and you have different povs or different ways and slants things might have been written there's something that george does that gets me real good that he doesn't ever give us the goddamn truth. And here I am week after week with you.

George, what's the truth? But I agree. I don't want an adaptation or an objective one, right? I want a sort of Rashomon-esque. Which is what we're getting. I like the rebellion told within the context of this story. Yeah, especially bringing that knights being, knights are the monster to the front during this

because of, I mean, the tourney sold as a sexy thing, but everything that was happening behind the scenes wasn't, right? It's a little spot on for this story's star knight, but like Jamie is the knight at the centerfold of some of this because he is being made a Kingsguard this weekend. It's in partial celebration for him and it's, let's be real, it's also Aerys flaunting a lot of it, especially with Tywin refusing to come around. Hysterically, even though it's kind of hinted at, there was a richer benefactor to it because

Harrenhal couldn't hold this tourney and someone gave a lot of gold for this tourney to happen. Who knows who has a lot of gold? But Jamie takes his vows and the drama, I mean, the drama happening here is literally amazing. Like Jamie drama, Eris trauma drama, there's drama in every fucking area. And of course, Jamie here is a young boy being turned into a knight and now he's a young man and he's got sparkling eyes, much like Bran would want. And he's a young man who is going to make some very questionable choices, much like Bran is. We all become the knight or the monster, apparently, in the end. I don't know. Or both, and you have to be the knight who slays the monster inside of you and oh my god uh yeah it's kind of funny you know you're talking about aries right we find out aries wasn't supposed to go you're talking about the the benefactor because uh jamie also is like uh yeah we find out in this book that he's like, turns out Ares did that to piss off my dad.

So that kind of tainted my welcome party. And also Ares showed up. He wasn't supposed to. And everyone's like, oh, my God, we didn't invite her. Maleficent is here. It's amazing. It's truly amazing. It's like Gossip Girl.

Actually, a little. See, that's what I would... If they chose to remake The Tourney at Harrenhal into a Gossip Girl-style adaptation, I'd be into it. But let's come back to that another time. I kind of workshop that. I agree.

I would watch it. If it was on The CW, I would watch it. Oh. You know, maybe that's the problem, that it's not... I mean, The CW shows, I know people hate on them, but they've got a special kind of magic to them. David and Dan could do Game of Thrones, but they could never do Gossip Girl. Oh, agreed.

Ryan Condal could do Hot D, but he could never do Gossip Girl. Well, maybe, but I don't think he could. He probably couldn't do Gossip Girl. I don't think so. I don't think he could. No, no. couldn't do Gossip Girl. I don't think so. I don't think he could. No. No.

All the defenders of Harrenhal's Queen of Love and Beauty are defeated on the very first day, and the conquerors are vanquished. By the end of day one, the Porcupine Knight wins a place in the championship. The second morning, the Pitchfork Knight and the Knight of Two Towers win too.

But, in the lists, on the second day, during the afternoon afternoon a mystery challenger approaches a mystery knight brand knows all about mystery knights the dragon knight winning as the knight of tears to name his sister queen of love and booty instead of the king's mistress? Barristan the Bold, donning a disguise at only ten years old. Twice! Twice! Bran knows about these knights,

and he is sitting there, and he's like, ugh. He does something my dad does. My dad likes to guess things, and he's always wrong when he does it in shows, so like Jon Snow shit. He was like, oh, this is gonna happen, and he was totally wrong while watching Game of Thrones. It's great. It it's really entertaining maybe not for others who actually haven't seen the show though bran is like the crayon man's the night i bet the crayon man's the night and mira's like

a little coy she's like maybe it could have been him the night was short wearing ill-fitting armor pieced together carrying a shield with a heart tree of the old gods a white weirwood with a laughing face bran's like oh i bet the old god sent him and mira's like perhaps they did bran perhaps they did and there's a lot of this right that plays into bran thinking he knows what's going to happen next is because he's used to what the stories have told him right he's going off the tropes of what's supposed to happen and turns out we can't trust that in A Song of Ice and Fire. But also going off of, I mean, it speaks a little to the ideas of chivalric romances, right? Mystery Nights, they're all over the chivalric romances, you know, like the stories of the Green Knight, etc. The other Green Knight, not this one, not these green people.

Confusing, but obviously you can see the influence. I do like Liana telling, seeking that sort of revenge, right? Because I do believe that Lyanna is the knight of the laughing tree and embodies that belief that lords should protect their vassals, right? Even if the Cranigman is like, you know, whatever, I'm gonna let it slide. She's like, nah, we're getting revenge. And also that people deserve respect. And she might not be the lord. She might not be the one inheriting. But she steps into that role of leadership. As we were discussing earlier.

As to whether or not the old god sent this knight. I mean I don't know. Yes and no. There's a way you can interpret it of like did the old god send Liana. Not like literally. But it's kind of interesting to think about. Especially if it leads to parts of I don't know. The song of ice and fire being born feels very magical but also speaking of magical princes

and births the assumption brand makes that the knight of the laughing tree is the kranigman and i mean part of it is because mira and jojen part of the fun of the story is they keep using the word he, right? It's a little reminiscent of the prophecy of the prince that was promised. Everyone always assumes it is a prince because that's what it says in the common tongue, right? It's just like assuming that the knight of the laughing tree is, as a knight, is a man.

Well, the sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler, right? I mean, I think that, I literally think that might be a cute wink and a nod from George to kind of encompass a lot of the text. And I love that Liana gets like a dunk moment, right? Like this is her dunk moment.

This is her, are there no true knights among you moment. I love the way that it's dealt with. Also that she was dunking on these people. Yeah, and dunking with that tree on her shield too i mean that also is a mystery night a mystery night appears and george was very much so playing in both worlds right now this is around when the rest of these novellas are being written in the background from night of the seven kingdoms so far. He loves a good mystery night, especially now that Bloodraven is absolutely tied into this plot

and is tied into that story as well. I like that it serves as that moment for the rebellion, what they're fighting for, right? It's not just Lyanna beating up some knights that their squires were mean, which is important. Teach them honor. But then you look at the oppression coming from Aerys at the same time, and it's a small act in the midst of a lot of bullshittery that's going on. It does make me wonder with what you're saying about who knows if the old god sent her or not.

Maybe, maybe. What did Howland learn on the Isle? And how did he put some of this into play i do think that he had to have learned something on the isle and came to this tourney with a bigger mission or with some things that he knew he should do and i don't know i know we talk sometimes about magic in this story deriving from certain places if he learned something on the aisle that made him come here and push a meeting or push what he was doing or his agenda then what about Rhaegar's dreams we know that he had some certain dreams that may or may not have been dragon dreams

that may or may not have been him learning about prophecy, learning about a prophecy. You know, he woke up one day, decided he wanted to be a warrior or that he needed to be a warrior, not wanted to be, needed to be. So where does that crux coincide, right? Like if you have the old gods machinating or somebody utilizing the resources and tools of the old gods and you have dragon dreams also machinating. I love that this tourney becomes the kettle pot for where they meet in the middle. Absolutely. It's meet in the middle.

It's not just a kettle pot. It's a powder keg. Well, that's just the powder keg calling the kettle black. Oh my gosh. Speaking of kettle blacks. Speaking of kettle blacks, speaking of. So earlier I mentioned that this chapter alone has spawned what like countless analysis and theorizing and given just so much room for people to discuss and analyze it. And one of my favorite theories, and when I say one of my favorites, look, I read a lot of Ice and Fire theories in 2014, 2015. I read anything that I could. If it was on Reddit, if it was like, you know, a theory here, I was Googling, I was

everywhere. I wanted to know more about theories. And there's a theory by King Littlefinger on Reddit. It's actually really funny. I quoted it in an essay a long time ago, something that I really liked. And really liked and he responded and he's like did i really say that i don't even believe that anymore that's a mood that's such a mood i can't be held responsible for things i said two weeks ago let alone like two years ago or five years ago but this theory is like six years old it's a four-part theory i'm so sorry but you should all read all four parts. Take two hours because it's a really interesting theory. It's called the Harrenhal conspiracies, and it's not that far

fetched. I don't agree with every facet or point in it, but I feel like it takes all of the info we have from multiple sources, multiple books, pulls it together from what happened at Harrenhal, and it examines it from so many different angles that my brain isn't necessarily wired to automatically examine. And in broad strokes, the theory is true, and it's more of an analysis and an examination, but it paints out basically that the initial alliance of men gathered at Harrenhal planned to, quote-unquote, support Rhaegar in order to have him call a council.

Then, once Aerys and Rhaegar had split the Targaryen's support and strength amongst themselves because of infighting, they would use their combined support to press Robert's claim to the Iron Throne instead. And he goes on to make a great point, and this is, again, pre-Fire and Blood. So, put that out into context. There was no fire and blood yet. There was only World of Ice and Fire. He says that we've already seen this happen in a previous council at Harrenhal where Laenor Velaryon, a son descended from the line of a female Targaryen, had a claim and was pressed. So we have much more context now in all of that. Thank you, George, for writing that book. I love it very much. I love, George, for writing that book.

I love it very much. I love Fire and Blood. But that's an interesting observation to make. Contextualizing the dance within this is also really interesting as you see all these different factions. He goes on to suggest Rhaegar was attempting to have conspirators join him. And he lists out who it seemed he had so far. And it's pretty supported by the text. I mean, at least that was making moves we learned that from jamie right raygar had put his hand on jamie's shoulder when this battle's done i mean to call a council changes will be made i meant to do it

long ago well it does no good to speak of roads not taken we shall talk when I return. Then, because of all these little facets, he makes the assumption that he thinks Lyanna knew the plan to make Robert king because she was betrothed to Robert and in turn would be made his queen and that he she tells Rhaegar that in the woods. She reveals that plan to Rhaegar and Rhaegar then becomes a huge hashtag disruptor and disrupts that plan by crowning Lyanna at the tourney instead of crowning his wife, as is probably the right thing to do, or the normal

thing to do. You know, the maybe normal, I mean, you know, if you're respecting. Yeah, the expected thing. Yeah. It was not just like, respect, respect, respect. It was like, respect, respect. You know, there's, yeah, I don't know. It's a little fishy. So these are a lot of the facets of the theory.

And there are some places he takes it that I don't necessarily agree, but there are other places I do. And for example, this is a really interesting reading. He theorizes Azshara was dancing with the men that Rhaegar wanted to liaison with about conspiring to overthrow his dad, which is really interesting. Like that each one of them she danced with in particular, just to be like, hey, meet at Rhaegar's solar room, you know, go over there. He's down the hall. He wants to chit chat with you. Bye. See ya. Interesting. very interesting because all of those men were mostly men that

were rhaegar supportive i don't know if that's true or not i just like it but if rhaegar's dreams were part of his motivation he had a lot on his list right prince that was promised stop his evil dad fix westeros get rid of those horrible nightmares giving him migraines all the time probably yeah it's uh that's a lot of things on one's checklist it is not i don't think i would have accomplished it i think he needed to break it down into maybe smaller parts and i think he did he was working on it and then you know was like what if i disrupted my whole life in the whole country tap that pussy put it on a pedestal yep though i don't know maybe the old gods i don't know whatever maybe i kind of wonder like maybe ashara was like vetting them

you know because Barristan does not seem like he was like yeah I'm gonna overthrow Ares he's like hmm and who knows if it's him that she dances with right like it could be her brother to be fair and her brother probably was like yeah great idea love that

love that for us my job sucks so then we find out that the knight of the laughing tree Love that. Love that for us. Yep. My job sucks. So then we find out that the Knight of the Laughing Tree dips his lance and faces three knights, one from each of the houses of the squires from the day before. And the old gods gave strength to his arm, defeating each of them in turn. The common folk cheered, the Knight of the Laughing Tree. And the Knight of the Laughing Tree tells the Tree of Knights that, okay that okay you know what is enough payment for ransoming back your armor just tell your squires to have honor teach them honor so once the squires are chastised their

horses and armor are returned and the little crannogman's prayer is answered princess this is a pretty good story and that's what happened like did the knight of the laughing tree win the tourney and marry a princess no but maybe a prince and then mira finishes at the great castle the storm lord and the knight of skulls challenged the mystery knight but the next morning only two champions appeared. The knight of the laughing tree has vanished, and the king sent his son, the dragon prince, to go seek out the knight, but they only ever found his painted shield in a tree. Ah, in the world of Ice and Fire, there's some really interesting elaborations on Ares' state of mind during all this, and this is like a very clean version of it we get in this chapter but

what you can get from the world of ice and fire captivates me so i want to bring this up here kang aries the second was not a man to take joy in mysteries however his grace became convinced the tree on the mystery knight's shield was laughing at him he commanded his own knights to defeat the night of the laughing tree when the jousts resumed the next morning, so he might be unmasked and his perfidy exposed for all to see. But the mystery knight vanished during night, never to be seen again. This, too, the king took ill, certain someone close to him had given warning to this traitor who will not show his face. These are valid paranoia. Yeah, this is very valid paranoia to have

considering his son then fucks that traitor but rolling that back for a minute we haven't gotten to the fucking yet that doesn't happen actually amira's version but we know what happens it's probably later though first we got the flirtations or i don't know i imagine it was like when they're on the run right like not right away but after a handful of days on the road together i just feel well and and this is a great this is a great segue thank you eliana because if you haven't lady gwyn from radio westeros lady guinevar has written a theory that is another one of my favorite rebellion era theories the in at the crossroads theory it is godly you should know it by heart by now I know it by heart I don't know why you don't know it by heart I really not to shame you all if you're listening and you don't but I will leave you a link below just because I like you all so it supposes the night of the

laughing tree totally pissed Eris off which yes we just read that in the world of ice and fire so much so he sends out a party to find the night by escaping his grasp this enrages him even more so then he's like let's fucking kill the night of the laughing tree we're gonna lock him up torture him murder him and ray is like ha ha ha ha uh that's a problem and he's like wait no she's so cute lol so he rides after the night of the laughing tree intercepts her actually at the inn at the crossroads which has become a great crux for so much of the story of people meeting and oops he and liana run you, on the run to escape Ares. And it sets off a huge chain of accidental events, becomes a huge star-crossed lover, yada, yada, yada, different worlds event.

R plus L equals J. I enjoy it. Read it. And to further that, it wasn't just Ares' paranoia, though. We know that Varys was in his ear. Who knows what he was saying. But there's someone else that was in his ear. Who knows what he was saying, but there's someone else that was in his ear. Simon Staunton was whispering in his ear that Rhaegar had taken part in the tourney only to win the favor

of the small folk, which, okay, they don't get a vote. Like, who? No offense, I love, like, BTW, I am probably small folk here, but we don't get to vote in the Targaryen elections, you know you know like we just what what it makes a little difference later on as we'll see like you know with some things but

here i don't know yeah i just don't see it being used as great leverage against aries like oh he wants to win the small folk aries why don't they love me also to remind the lord's present that he's the true heir and a true heir to king agan the first targaryen's line and also simon staunton is like he only crowned lyanna to gain the support of the north for the iron throne which could have been an oopsies as discussed earlier with king little fingers theory could have been like a huh y'all want to fuck all right well fuck this but also he probably was also kind of doing so he was making sure the north didn't go without it didn't work because of communication but there was no communication if anything the north is even more mad that he did that they're like excuse me could have written a note our could have left an email my property our 14 year old daughter

yeah right exactly dude she still has a curfew my god rhaegar yeah she has a curfew and she's betrothed we have different plans yes agreed agreed there's a lot of stuff that points to yeah aries is paranoid but at the same time did he kind of have a point it's kind of like Cersei right yeah she's being a little paranoid but I mean maybe she should be a little just saying broken clock is right twice a day we close out the chapter though with Bran's fanfic Bran thought about the tale a while that was a good story but it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him not their squires then the little craning men could have killed them all the The part about the ransoms was stupid, and the mystery knights should win the tourney, defeating every challenger and naming the wolf maid the queen of

love and beauty. She was, said Mira. But that's a sadder story. Are you certain you never heard this tale before, Bran? asked Jojen. Your lord father never told it to you? Bran shook his head. The day was growing old by then, and long shadows were creeping down the mountainsides to send black fingers through the pines. If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too. All the tales agreed that the green men had strange magic powers. Maybe they could help him walk again. Even turn him into a knight. They turned the little cranic men into a knight, even if

it was only for a day, he thought. A day would be enough. Ooh, interesting. A knight for a day? A knight for a day? Oh. Hmm. Inside a knight's descendant, maybe? I'm also thinking like a knight, I don't know,

turning something into a knight for a day, right? As you were saying, like, because we have a knight, literally the nighttime and the day and the long night and then battle for dawn and things like that. But also he does kind of become a knight or he tries to become a knight for a day. It turns out that wasn't enough when he's in hodor and also i don't know there's a little meta stuff here too right like brand being like well i don't know i think the story should have gone this way it's a little meta in terms of both within the song of ice and fire of people being like well we would have really liked things to go this way but also for the readers you know being like i don't think that's how the story should have ended or i don't

think that theory i have my people have their theories right me you and i have our theories right um some people have theories i have cannons sorry sorry it's literally in the podcast name yeah we have cannons this is girl gone canon not girls gone theory i'm gonna need you to exit if you think this podcast is about theories now eliana well yeah i'm just a guest here this is girl gone canon singular jesus christ yeah i love the meta too of i don't think this is how it should go i think this is how it should go presenting seasons three through Two through eight. One through... Anyways. I love this chapter. I've told you all why I love it. I love the importance of storytelling,

keeping some of these stories alive, whether it's in physical format, whether it's the Citadel, right, and all the many books and the many stories. That's really like the super telephone office of their world. So much info and news leaves and goes out from that citadel, out to everyone. Birds, birds carrying stories, birds telling stories, animals. Hell, animals being skin-changed into and warged into and that telling a story.

I love the many faceted layers George has played with in this chapter, and I was so excited to read it with you. Yeah, and there's something you said just now about the different ways stories manifest. You called out like, you know, if they just like remember old Nan, right? And the stories about old Nan, not the ones that she told, but remembering her. That's kind of what they're doing here, right? They're keeping the memory of these people who were at this tourney alive by telling these stories and maybe that's part of the surprise of are you sure you've never heard this story before bran but it was too too painful for ned to relive those and keep those memories alive but that was the way to keep them alive and let them grow up as brothers yeah he should have he

really should have probably but i understand why he didn't and let my lady wife find it in her heart to forgive bruh i love it and it just makes me think of agot when he's riding in the rain going to go see robert's bastard and he thinks would rhaegar have frequented a place like this something inside of him said no he would not have wwrd but rhaegar not robert what would rhaegar do no one knows because that bitch is dead well until next week when we talk about more of rhaegar targaryen's relatives as we get to god Queen's Crown. Queen's Crown. A big chapter. Lots of Alessandra Harris Night's Watch stuff going on. So brush up on your Fire and Blood chapters

if you haven't recently. And I look forward to chatting about it with you next week, Aliana. Yeah, thank you for having me on this podcast. If you want to keep up with more of my guest appearances on Girls Gone Canon, you can follow us on social media at Girls Gone

Canon. Whoa, what a weird handle you have on Twitter. Girls Gone Canon, that's C-A-N-O-N over on Twitter, or you can shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Aren't you all so glad we don't pre-record this segment of the podcast? And if you have

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Season 3. We own it now. Oh my god. So make sure you join up for that. As always, I have been your host, Chloe. And I have been such an excited guest here, Eliana. Fucking God. Hopefully we'll be back next week with the usual hosts. I don't know what's going on here.

Bye. Bye. Wow, we did it.