Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 182 — ASOS Bran IV with Anne (SweetYFT)

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Alternate episode title: Be Our Guest Right  Anne (SweetYFT) of Hypes Watch and Clash of Queens brings us on a guided tour of the Nightfort and its stories... only we learn that the monster from the stories isn't who we thought.  Where to Find Anne:  SweetYFT YouTube Channel — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2K98Bx6Mzs    Hypes Watch and A Clash of Queens — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMRMaprM4O5WzAIQJnvz9g Background Music Lasting Hope Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 182, Brand 4, In a Storm of Swords, featuring our friend SweetYFT, Anne. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, we have a very special third host today, our good, good friend Anne, who loves Brand. Oh my god. Thank you for coming, Anne.

Hello. Hi, guys. Thank you for coming, Anne. Hello. Hi, guys. Thank you for having me here. I am so excited to be talking to you again. We have not talked in a really long time. It has been quite a while. It's crazy because I feel like the last time all three of us were together was in 2017 in a room splitting makeup together and trading makeup at ice and fire camp we saw

each other 2018 right yeah no 2019 i'm pretty sure right 2018 2019 i think but it's been a while and also like you know while we might talk it's not often it's not always about a song of ice and fire nowadays right yeah yeah yeah there's other stuff and comes and joins us from the hype swatch which also uh a clash of queens i love being part of the ice watch i i mean i know the guys made a recap video for help of house of the dragons i miss the clash of queens more than anything i loved working with baby and tinker but like I don't think that's coming back. But I love the four of us. Well, maybe when we get a book.

Right? Maybe when we get a book. Maybe when we get a book. Please, George? Give us another book? Yeah, come on. I miss the girls. I want Clash of Queens back. I miss my girls. Absolutely. Well, I look forward to it because any day, it's going to get announced. Right? We're going to look under our chair, and there it going to be and Clash of Queens will come back and we have all these big plans, right? You're going to take over the world by storm again. And with your wonderful brand analysis, I was just listening to the brand to A Storm of Swords Hypeswatch episode from 2016. It took me back in time. It had some great voices. You were leading the discussion don willie was there jerry was there i'm gonna say scad from dabbo's fingers was on and tinker it was a great

discussion and when i read bran i do get a little nostalgia right it makes me think of god the 2015 through 17 era of a song of ice and fire thank you well yes we were so excited back then. We were so excited. We were, though. We were. It was fun. I'm still kind of excited. I think the last book that really excited me was the world book, The World of Ice and Fire. I know some people were still very, very, very excited by the Fire and Blood Targaryen book that I, you know, barely got through thanks to the power of audio book. One, I'm not the biggest Targaryen fan. I, you know, they're a great house, but, and also because a lot of it was things we already had in novellas. I mean, we had,

we had some good things and I would need to give it another try I mean I know we had some good things and I know you loved it Chloe like I know you were really excited I know I know they're your fave and I know you loved it and you got a lot more out of it than I did but like the world book was more my thing because you know it touched a lot more on magical places and you know like there were so many like juicy little tidbits for me. Well, 2014, 2015, right? Wasn't that around when it came out? So that was another prime, prime, like, moment in a Song of Ice and Fire fan feeling. Like, being able to read that.

I remember when that came out. It was, I mean, it is beautiful. It's a beautiful book. But it was such an exciting piece. There was a lot of mystery. Like you kind of said, there was a lot of, it didn't give everything everything away and Fire and Blood's not for everyone, but it is for me. So I will read it twice as much just for you, Anne, just for you. Yeah, it still has some of that mystery and magic in it. But as Anne said, a lot of it had been pre-released before. Like for example, a lot of

the Conquest was from the world book and then sons of the dragon had been released previously or at least uh read a lot at conventions yeah sons of the dragon was released in another book as well as uh the rogue prince and the princess and the queen but there's still i think a lot in there that's really good and some of the stuff like for aliceari's, which we'll talk about a little today, was not in the world book. And I think stands alone really well because it has more of a narrative flow to it than some of the stuff in the world book. Some of which like read like, you know, very long encyclopedia entries. And I prefer having like that more character driven approach. Gotta love the edgy, richer, more royal Brady Bunch, you know? brady bunch you know it's a blast it's a blast

well and we're so excited that you're here we're gonna get into all this and more today but first up top we want to get through our housekeeping really quickly so for all of you listening at home last month for our patreon special bonus, which patrons in the Stranger tier and above, $5 and up, get every month at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon, was A Song for Leah by George. And believe it or not, I think we really, really enjoyed this. I think I had a really good time reading this novella with you, Eliana. It was sad. It was bittersweet.

It was heart conflict itself. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, it was bittersweet it was heart conflict itself yeah yeah yeah it was super good it was my first time reading that short story so i i'm really glad that we covered it and i think there are some things that really inspire the way that we're going to approach this discussion today in a song of ice and fire and have you read this story yes actually so a while ago i really really liked it i have not read that many of george's novellas besides the ones in the swf canon but yes i really liked it i thought it dealt with some interesting themes that we find in a song of ice and fire in a very with a lot of subtleties yeah painful you can see how it's the same person still like working through the same things but he's grown he's got different ways of doing it

now as opposed to you know as i say in that episode 1970s george was he was going through it something was happening in that man's life it was raw it was raw and like a lot of heartache and you could just you can actually like feel that though. You can feel what he put into it, the love and maybe the heartache he was putting into it. And I really loved it. And I think you're onto something there that he's definitely refined it, right? He's really polished that and been able to integrate that into his story without it being

too heavy handed or too heavy. I think it's really well done throughout A song of ice and fire and for what it might be building towards who knows who knows yeah well i think the main difference is and that's something i'm excited to touch on in that chapter but for better or worse because that's a discussion where i'm being a lot in the fandom but one thing that is very specific in the song of ice and fire is the strategic use of the pov you know that so here in song for leah you know it's the whole hive mind thing and yes we have the pov of our main character who's i'm sorry name i totally forgot because i read that chunks ago but like we are kind of told what the hive mind is,

and how people feel about it. We have the hive mind in A Song of Ice and Fire. The thing is that we're going to really experience it, and we might see it through different characters, but mainly we're going to see it through Bran, and we're going to see it through a nine-year-old, probably at the time, boy, who's going to have no guidance or very biased

guidance to experience it and we're gonna see through his thoughts and so it's gonna be you know we're gonna have to parse it's gonna be muddled and it we're gonna have to decipher things about it and on first read or we're gonna take out of it on first read and second read and once maybe we learn more about it in another chapter maybe sam is gonna say something about it that's gonna then illuminate a reread because he read something in the book i love that so that's how we see the evolution. It's like the same idea, the same great thing, but in his previous books, it was given to us. And now when you revisit it, it's layered. It's nuanced. Yeah, there's a lot of that sci-fi as set dressing over the central themes in a song for Leah, right? You're surrounding it with set dressing. And I think that's a lot of this chapter,

too, where we have the night fort as a scary set dressing but deep beneath it is something deeper and we're going to talk probably a lot about that today and i'm actually really excited for this month's patreon episode and you'll like it too we're going to do the mystery night because we're about to get into blood raven we're about to get into a double a dance with dragons back to the the seven kingdoms with dunk and egg and i i haven't reread mystery night in a while so i think it's gonna really apply here it's been a long time a long time long time coming i'm gonna say again i think i said every time i'm invited somewhere george you can't release the next installment of the song of ice and fire if you cannot give us Winds of Winter, please. I mean, I would

die for the next Dunkin' Egg. Do you hear me? She's not being dramatic, folks. She means it. Yeah, I love you. She means it. She means it. Yeah, that's a big plea. Please, George. Please. Well, that's not the only thing patrons can

enjoy this month we do have another installment ourselves of brunch slash happy hour for our patrons in the thunder tier and above ten dollars and up who get access lifetime access to our private discord channel where people gather to post memes and art and food. Lots of food. There's so much food. We are a food podcast. So this month will be at February 19th, 1 to 3 p.m. E.T. Eliana time. No. Asterisk.

Asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. And yeah, it'll be a fun time. I think we might play some reindeer games or something. It's a little after Valentine's Day. I think we had a Galentine's Day last year, so maybe we'll do it again. Who knows? Who knows?

And also, that's not the only thing that happens on our Discord amongst the channels. There's lots of fun activities we had, but starting today, and I say today because of right now when we are recording this episode, our lovely patrons are spearheading a rewatch of His Dark Materials, the final season.

And that's every Saturday at more or less, like unless it changes. Yeah. Every now and then it might change, but it's usually at 1 p.m. E.T. as well. Yeah. They're starting today.

So I can't wait to go listen in and hear what fun they have to bring us and finally finally if you missed it in our season update 2023 season update this season on girls gone canon you if you didn't listen to that 14 minute episode you're probably missing out on what's to come this year so let's tell you real quickly we just put out gossip girls gone canon my passion project the only thing I've ever wanted to do with Eliana. And thank you, Eliana. This was very kind to let me have this. You know, you gotta give your wife a couple things once

in a while. Throw her a bone. Is this all you wanted? I feel like you also might want to do Gen 1 at some point, but that is a bigger lift. There's like way more episodes, but I do, I think we should consider it. The people are asking for it. The people do want it, but we should consider it people the people are asking for it the people do want it but we did cover we i'm the people here we did cover generation 2 series finale

and kind of overall thoughts on the now dead generation 2 gossip girl show rip i hope we can bring her back right three days is all we need right and some brawl or we could come back but spoilers our feelings are very complicated but overall good and we talk a little bit of the meta of how the show is coming to be and what it would have been in the future god bless josh saffron the united states of josh saffron who directed the show and i mean he really did a great job so listen into that episode it's great it It was fun. I actually really enjoyed it.

And finally, finally, another passion project has been brought to life at the end of March, the last week, because if you notice, we do not put out a Song of Ice and Fire on the last week of the month that is reserved for His Dark Materials episodes. Usually we're taking a little break before we jump back into HDM, but we'll be starting a new series. Yeah, in the lead up for the release of the final Sailor Moon reboot movie, Sailor Moon Cosmos, which is coming out worldwide June 30th. In March, we are kicking off Magical Girls Gone Canon, which is mostly only really covering Sailor Moon, but maybe we'll talk about a couple of the other Mahou Shoujo series that there are to discuss. But we are starting with season one

of Sailor Moon Crystal in March. So again, the reboot series. Yeah, keep your eyes peeled on the feed. I'm really enjoying my rewatch so far. I have a lot of thought. The animation's gorgeous. Crystal is really pretty. It's very pretty. There are moments that it is. Yeah, for sure. There are moments that you're like, what is going on here? The budget. The budget. The budget. The budget. We know all about that. It's always the budget.

Well, we've gotten a bunch of emails and tweets of note. Everyone is kind of getting geared up as we get closer to a double-dunk. This is the final Bran chapter of A Storm of Swords, so we will be back with A Dance with Dragons getting geared up as we get closer to a double dot. This is the final brand chapter of a storm of swords. So we will be back with a dance with dragons for our next episode. And I think we have a guest for our episode after that,

that we will announce next week. So keep your ears peeled. So we got a comment on Twitter from our friend, Sabrina, in case you missed it previously in an episode, I think we offered to sponsor a night's watchman for a certain amount of day on our Patreon. It's not a tier yet, but we could make it that way. For a certain amount of money every day, you could feed a Night's Watchman of your own.

And Sabrina has already staked her claim. They want to see us sponsor Dolores Ed. I agree. I absolutely agree with that. sponsor Dolores Ed. I agree. I absolutely agree with that. Sabrina, we will we will use our very first pledge to save Dolores Ed for you. Yeah, I don't I don't remember making this promise. But yes. No, it was me. It was. Sabrina also said something interesting. Yeah. piggybacking off of last week's episode or last episode, I should say, I think the creaking hinges heard in this chapter connect to Euron,

because Bran is going to be taught by the Three-Eyed Crow, and he abuses Hodor for the first time in this chapter. I love that connection. Yeah, I thought it was a really good way to tie together, you know, like, it's not explicitly, right, like, that it's you're on in Brynn's story in that way but like the sort of parallels of like what power means and take using your power over someone else's body which is uh something that gets confirmed in the Forsaken in regards to Euron and Eron's storyline but yeah I thought that was a really, really great way to parallel them. It's an interesting chicken and the egg question. We know Euron's a monster, but did the three-eyed crow turn Euron into a monster?

Because, I mean, he picked Bran young, so we know Euron has been a monster since childhood, but he could have picked Euron really young. Or does the three- it make big monster children um i think what i'm what i'm kind of wondering lately is is it like people who go through like a near-death experience but i think i'm just influenced by the show the oa which was also canceled and i will never get back but it's a good question regarding was euron always like this or did power turn him that way because i do think that's something that ge is exploring, right? Like the nature versus nurture thing. And I think, you know, one storyline where that's really obvious is Tyrion's storyline.

Yeah, that's a great point. I don't know. It's hard. I take it as canon, unfortunately. And that comes from the gap of having a book right but i really do take it as canon the euron and blood raven jedi failed jedi trainee kind of thing it's like kung fu panda it is kind of like kung fu panda usually i would argue but actually actually yeah there's that line right the euron standing nude at the window looking out on the sea and he says when i was a boy i dreamt that i could fly and he says the maester said it wasn't true but what if he lied how can we know if we never leap so it feels it feels like it it feels right and this is actually a really great little connection to draw but it comes back to it I think especially when you see like all the bones of the

dreamers that couldn't continue on there and the visions and you see, like, the bones of the greenseers. It takes it from being this magical idea for a little boy who wanted to be a knight and now he's going to learn magic instead and fly. It turns it a little dark, right? And Euron does feel like the absolute dark answer to what could happen to Bran. Oh, yeah. dark answer to what could happen to Bran. Oh yeah like I think there's definitely I've said it like there's there are definitely so many hints of the darkest path for Bran like you know dark Bran and there's going to be some dark Bran next next book it's going to be dark Bran and hopefully you know that's not the last book

hopefully it doesn't say dark Bran but yeah, no I agree I think Bran has to learn from that because you have a lot of people who don't, part of the argument and exploration of the book is

looking at all those different ways and paths that people can take not just a singular one not just because not just because you have chosen you know darkness or like something bad has happened to you you stay that way that people can grow yes yeah it has to change it has to be like it can't be the same thing from the front of the books right it has to have some sort of answer at the end. Even if it's not, like, an exact answer. At the end. In that chapter that Sabrina is talking about, I mean, it's tough.

Because, yeah, Bran does a horrible thing. But, like, they're all really scared. And Jojen, then Master Jojen, and he's really scared. And he specifically asks Bran to quiet down Hodor. Yeah, that's a good thing you've pointed out because I think Jojen, we see him as this sort of very mature guiding light.

And he isn't always. He's literally like 13 years old or something like that i don't i don't expect someone who's that age to have all the answers even though he's been raised to think that he does because of the green dreams and thankfully mira pushes back on that she's like just because you can dream it doesn't mean that that's the only answer i know but i think the the if i can go for a quote and and it's funny because there's a lot of i can't really quote it without yelling but we know george loves to capitalize things but here it's not capitalized it's you

know it's a little story it's be quiet brand said in a shrill, scared voice, reaching up uselessly for Horner's legs as he crashed past, reaching, reaching. So, you know, we gotta gauge the violence there. Horner staggered, closed his mouth, shook his head slowly from side to side, sank back to the floor and sat cross-legged. floor and sat cross-legged. When the thunder boomed, he scarcely seemed to hear it. The four of them sat in the dark tower, scarce daring to breathe. Gran, what did you do? Mira whispered. Nothing. Gran shook his head. I don't know. But he did. I reached for him the way I reached for Summer. He had been horror for half a heartbeat. It scared him. And that comes back around this chapter.

Yes. Yeah, it does. That's why it was interesting to bring that up. And it does in a different way it's a lot more explored I don't want to jump the gun but here Bran doesn't notice

Meera notices the only thing I really want to point out is the last sentence it scared him because we're going to talk about Bran being scared a lot in our exploration of this chapter and the things that scare Bran.

So I just want us to keep that in mind. What scares Bran? And that scared him. Yeah, it's a different context this chapter, right? He's still scared when he does it, but it's because he's scared that he does it this time. We'll be exploring that. So we have a podcast flirtation now going on.

We have BFFs. Last episode, we spoke about our friends at the EO podcast, Del Giaccio e del Fuoco, who are an Italian podcast covering A Song of Ice and Fire. And I've been learning a tiny bit of Italian. I'm nothing special. I'm like, I'm getting some complicated sentences, right? My roommate, that guy I live with, and my mom and I are all, we're all kind of competing. We're using Duolingo and listening to some stuff, but we got

a response from them. They really loved the way that we're talking about Bran. They said it's sweet, and they said that if we wanted to learn Italian, so if you're a listener and you're thinking about learning Italian and you want to learn Italian with the podcast, they have a seven part series on the rebellion, which as they point out, it is one of my favorite things. They know me, they got me. Their episodes are the proudest of and very well done. And since we know the subject and are familiar with the characters, it would be really easy to learn that way. So I will keep that in mind and download that up. I have to go watch that, listen to that. And they also made up a timeline of the war and they wanted to kind of organize every event in a single simple calendar. And I got to take a look at that. I'm

very, very interested. So thank you so much for writing us back. I have some podcasting to listen to. And this is from Chiara, Beatrice, Domenico, and Filippo over at the podcast. So thank you guys for writing in. I really appreciate it. Yeah, this was, I don't know if y'all remember, was inspired by one of our listeners who, her name was also Anne, but it's not you, Anne, who was saying that she's been learning English and has been listening to the podcast to do that. So if you want to brush up on any of your Italian, everyone, the podcast is the place. Yes. And then finally, we also received a great email from our friend Maddie, but we are going to be reading this next week because it ties in a little better with Adelwita

as opposed to Asos Bran. It's kind of nice. She wrote us a great mini essay, our green queen Maddie did, and I'm like, I'll just read this and then close the podcast up. Like we did good. That will be our first A Dance with Dragons episode. Thanks, Maddie. All right. Well, folks, it's time to jump into our lightning round to tell you about what we missed between episode 181, brand three, a storm of swords and episode 182, brand four, a storm of swords. I will launch us off with John five. John makes for Castle Black, leaving the free folk behind. Daenerys four. After meeting with sellswords, the storm crows help Daenerys win the battle, freeing slaves along the way. Arya VIII, Arya meets the ghost of Highheart and is kidnapped by Sandro Clegane.

Catelyn V, after visiting Oldstones, Robb makes his will known. Samwell III, at White Tree, Sam and Gilly think all is lost. Samwell 3, at White Tree, Sam and Gilly think all is lost, but a talking bird comes to guide them, and they are greeted by one of Sam's brothers from long, long ago. Aria 9, Sandor and Aria embark on the journey to ransom Aria to her brother at the Twin. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Turn back, is how I feel. Turn around. John 6. John warns Molestown to evacuate, and at Castle Black, learns of Bran's quote-unquote fate, and rests up for the incoming battle. Catelyn 6.

Something begins to feel off as the party approaches the twins. What you're doing to us right now is really hard. Arya 10. Sandor and Arya make their way to the twins. I'll make it up to you and I'll read Catelyn 7. Not my hair. Ned loves my hair. A lot of hair pulling in that relationship.

Jesus. Arya 11. At the castle, Sandor realizes the fate of aria's family in time to get them out john 7 igrid dies he's drawn to arms oh that's like a relief look this isn't my fault george wrote this like he wrote the books i'm just telling you what happened okay i know don't blame me don't blame me. Don't blame me. I know. And I was looking at, you know, the timeline. I always like to recontextualize a chapter looking at the timeline where it falls in

regard to other chapters. And like, oh my God, that chapter is a week after the Red Wedding. Yeah. And as we get into Bran IV, at the the night fort a little less sad of a chapter at the night fort we hear guest rate is important through fractured stories and a night's watchman arrives to give bran his next direction and so we open a storm of swords brand four with it is only another empty castle mira said as she gazed across the desolation of rubble, ruins, and weeds. No, thought Bran.

It is the Nightfort, and this is the end of the world. What a perfect start of a chapter, right? Chilling, kind of metal. Man, that's a metal way to start a chapter, and it's the end of the world. George has some metal gall going on here. Yeah, it really harkens back to part of the inspiration for the wall for George, right? He wanted to create something like the wall after visiting Hadrian's Wall in the UK. And he felt as he was standing there, he was wondering what it would feel like to be a soldier guarding this and looking out across it and thinking of it as the end of the world. So he's really bringing back that inspiration.

It's like, well, this is how I felt about it, so let's just put it in my book. Yeah, I agree with you, Chloe. Wonderful way to open the chapter. Wonderful way to set the tone. That's going to be a horror chapter. Be there for it, guys. And so that expression, the end of the world,

not the only time it's used to refer to the world. I want to think about your guys' thought on that expression. There's obviously the very like culturally biased, that's the end of civilization. After that, just barbaric lens. Obviously, it's a very culturally biased, that's the end of civilization. After that, just barbaric lands. But also, like, Lee Saint's dragon wouldn't cross the wall. So, end of the world?

What do we think? I love that you're bringing Fire and Blood, your noted favorite book, into this, Anne. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it. I did some rereading, you know, because I love you. I mean, do you remember that day he released it on his blog oh that was such a crazy day when he released that like blurb remember that i'm sorry i just had this great memory of that i was so alive in that moment i'm a slut for anything right like give me a word george like 10 10 words i'm ready great blurb when he released it was such a fun time but

coming back to that I'm really appreciating the Alysanne and Jaehaerys stuff from Fire and Blood more because of the last chapter basically being focused on Alysanne right you know he had to have thought about that and launched off of that a little bit when he wrote Queen's Crown coming back to Fire and Blood he had to have been thinking of these chapters, and it is a thinker. It does make you wonder, and I like what you've pointed out with kind of that double use of the end of the world being, oh, the end of civilization, which as we get to the end of Storm, right, and Stannis comes and saves the day. Stannis, Stannis, and, you know, saving the day with all of his swords and armor, breaking down the free folk. Exactly, exactly. A la Davos Fingers. It's really interesting because that double way of looking at it, you see later Stannis comes and cuts down the free folk who were invading that are real people

that lived in that land and have cultures and traditions. And it's obviously not the end of the world. I mean, there are people seeking it. Bran is trying to go through to the end of the world. It's something that sounds like an impossible task. Yes, because very early on in the first book, we have the first crow dream. We have a vision of that land of always winter way, way, way far north. That is the literal end of the world. There's nothing behind the far north. That is the literal end of the world. There's nothing behind the curtain of life. That's the end of the world.

But the dragon wouldn't cross. And also, you know I love you. You know I have a few more Allison quotes. Yeah, it's interesting because also like Bran's chapter comes after Jon has already crossed back into Westeros right we've spent and Sam technically as we find out

but we've spent a lot of time north of the wall already we know that this isn't the end of the world so it really goes to play up Bran's immaturity you know because he of the world. So it really goes to play up Bran's immaturity, you know, because he's nine years old. And it really hammers that home

because you're like, well, this isn't the end of the world. There's a whole other life beyond it. It just happens to be the wall. And this is a story you were told, just like how everything else in this chapter revolves around. These are stories you were told, true or not. We see, you know multiple times people crossing that side of the wall and then we see obviously men's of the night's watch

using the gates to go beyond the wall but do we see in either one of the books people, besides men of the Night's Watch, crossing from Westeros illegally to beyond the wall. Not, like, I mean, we just discussed, right, Stannis and his army do so. But through the gate.

Or do they... Well, I don't know if Stannis' army comes through the gates, right, they, I think, sail up there and then come around that way so that is obviously like one way you can do it and part of it it's it's kind of funny right because george comes up with this expression or that that emotion of feeling that something is the end of the world visiting hadrian's wall and like george like we know how the world works in our real life it is round all right first of all apparently people need to be told this nowadays too sometimes the world is round there is a world beyond hadrian's wall which we know because we just know this right it is a thing we know i feel like i don't have

to explain that i hope not yeah dead thing in the water and also that's true i mean we have that little bit of red fluff that man's radar it's really important to him that he has so yes also this is some some stuff to ponder as we cross the wall at the end of the episode especially we'll come back to some of that i think think, because it is another world, another realm, it feels like, that they're moving into. And that's a central theme of this episode. Can it be crossed? I know it's coming up later in the chapter, but we think that touched upon a bunch of times. The gate is sealed, the gate is sealed, the gate is sealed, the gate has been sealed. And it's the big reveal at the end of the chapter. And, you know, there's even the Pandora's box feel to it. What happens when the gate comes

unsealed, right? What happens when these charms that are in place no longer stand? Will it all of a sudden crumble and out of Pandora's box comes the one bad thing, which is, you know, the things that come in the night that we'll talk about. And even looking at the wall, like the veil the end of the world also the veil between life and death because beyond the wall lies a lot of death yeah it's very hero's journey that crossing to the threshold of the land of the dead but also kind of literally because there are zombies oh yeah rance i mean george Well, yeah, Rance, I mean, George Love is the hero's journey, obviously, but arguably Rance's chapters are the ones mirroring the hero's journey the closest. It's true. He is the last hero. He's the new last hero, right? And we're going to see his sword break, his horse die, his friends die, his dog die his friends die his dog die eliana what the fuck well yeah i mean i oh is hodor both his dog and his horse i put him in the friend category well he is a dog dog

he is a dog dog but i do think we are we are kind of like primed to think of hodor to an extent as something like like his horse slashes mount, which is something that the story wants you to question. Because you're like, how can you think of him like an animal? As Maester Luwin reminds us constantly, Hodor is a man. Yeah, a human. So Bran had wanted to reach the wall and find the crow. But now that they're here, he's kind of filled with dread because,

you know, he'd had a dream before this. We get some details on the dream and he refuses to think or speak about it even though Mira can kind of tell something's wrong and he thinks if he never talked of it maybe he could forget he ever dreamed it and then it wouldn't have happened and Rob and Grey Wind would still be and he trails off first of all is horrible. I'm feeling attacked and I would like to sue. I will put some litigation forward because how dare you? Also, it's showing us knowing without knowing, right? He's refusing to know and he never truly gets to grieve or allows himself to grieve for the Red Wedding. In fact, by refusing to look and refusing to open his eyes, it's questionable if he really understands or comprehends what happened at the Red Wedding

and the deaths they heard, both Rob's first death and his second death. That would be very traumatizing to feel and see connected to everyone else in that hive mind of those siblings and of their wolves. In Adowada, A Dance with Dragons, Bran 1, the other wolves made do with his leavings.

The old male fed first, then the female, then the tail. They were his now. They were pack. No, the boy whispered. We have another pack. Lady's dead and maybe Grey Wind too, but somewhere there's still Shaggy Dog and Nymeria and Ghost. Remember Ghost?

I'm curious to see how not grieving and not coming to that acceptance will reflect in his arc, especially in The Winds of Winter. Maybe we'll get visions and he'll finally come to an understanding and to grieve, but by that time that he comes to, this is like some crucial timing for him to grieve, like right now when it's happened. By stuffing that down and not experiencing it, and also where he is in his training with the three-eyed crow with Bloodraven, how he processes it may not be in a healthy way and may add to some of these themes of, you know, him beginning to use Hodor more without regard for Hodor or others or animals, etc. That subplot too of Meera grieving is really important, I think, because Meera,

this entire journey, has to grieve. Because she knows what's to come for Jojen. Any moment, it could happen to him. So that's kind of how she lives her life, right? And in dance, that becomes way heavier for her, especially. But Bran avoiding his family's death in his mind while Mira's forced to face it head on. It's a big clash of these two characters. forced to face it head on.

It's a big clash of these two characters. That's something he already does. And it just reminded me of in A Game of Thrones with his dad. I mean, it's not really reading per se, but how he processes his father being gone and he wants to go to the crypts. Remember the episode where he sees his father in gone and he wants to go to the crypt remember the episode where he sees his father in the crypt and he wants to go to the crypt he's in a constant state of denial you know so which is the first part of you know the grieving process but he just stumbles through denial and i

think that again that's something i want to touch on a little bit later. I have a huge tension regarding that, because I think that is going to have a huge impact on how he's going to use his powers. But the fact that he's stuck at the denial process of grieving. of grieving yeah it's like he's not even necessarily he he we don't see him grieving right we don't see him grieve his father really we don't get the time to do that because all of a sudden oh we're under attack or like oh we have to have this like feast this party now because our family is going to war he doesn't get time to grieve and also it's different because at that time he's like i don't really know if these dreams are real or not, right? And so at the same time, the grief comes together with this huge change happening in his life of like, you'd think it was puberty, but turns out actually are magical. So surprise. And then so for him, this dream is another example that it's like, I'm not supposed

to have this information. Someone should be telling me this someone should be here caring for my feelings as someone who has experienced loss and and trying to give that information to me as opposed to me having to deal with this on my own right and you contrast that with santa who's delivered the news in probably also one of the worst possible ways which is oh my abuser has used wielded this information against me in a really painful way and then also now you have Bran's like in this denial phase but it's not even that he's like at grief yet because he's also dealing with what happened to him and by that i mean not dealing he's just in the state of constantly repressing all of these ideas and not confronting them this is only this is like one of the second things that he's like not dealing with right the first being what happened to him in regards to jamie throwing him from a tower but this is also what blood raven has told

him to do. And that is kind of funny and not healthy, because actually turns out that's the same advice Jamie gives Tommen. He's like, I just go away inside myself. But Bloodraven doesn't want Bran to go away inside himself, because I think it's different. You have the power to live in the past, and you have to warn people. You can't stay living in the past. But also at the same past and you have to warn people you can't stay living in the past but also at the same time you have to confront what happens to you if you look back you are lost but at the same time you have to look back in order to move forward we'll start to cover more blood raven next week right but that's also what blood raven does and has done his entire life he goes to the wall and

then he goes away inside himself and disappears to everyone, eventually. Bran has to fight against that. Talking about repression, again, that's not something that was told to Bran, but it's just, you know, you want to talk about his dad? You want to talk, that's so nattered. The, you know, the guy would never want to think about Jon or his sister's death. Yes. You know, Tower of Joy much, you know? So, and also, like, we don't really know much, but just through claims in the storybooks,

he also seems to be really a king of winter pattern to, like, repress things, like, repress their true natures. So it's very much, like, producing, Ren is very much reproducing generational trauma there. Yeah. And it's interesting you bring that up as a King of Winter thing, because we're seeing what if Bran's not that he's a King of Summer? Oh, or a dream or a dream of spring. And there's also something great in that generational trauma you've pointed out of like, we've talked a little bit of him being a second son that not necessarily a reluctant leader, but an unlikely asterisk leader, a very unlikely leader shouldn't have been him shouldn't have had to be him. But yet now it is. And I feel like a lot of these lords that we see even, you know, like, akin back to Cregan, a lot of these lords that we have a little bit of information on seem to be in that similar pattern yeah well afraid of the night fort and afraid of her admitting it to the reeds bran thinks he has to be as brave as rob jojen is confident that they're safe but jojen

also did not grow up with old man's scary stories he just grew up you know with his dad's actual real stories whatever Whatever. Normal. Actually, that is kind of normal. Jojen is confident that they're safe, but the knight's king at the knight fort, the rat cook serving the andal king his delectable pie, the 79 sentinels standing watch,

brave Danny Flint being raped and murdered, King Sherit cursing the andals, and the apprentice boys facing the Andals, and the Apprentice Boys facing the thing that comes in the night. Also, blind Simeon Stareyes with his fighting hounds and mad Axe butcheringhere else in the book is there any other mention of King Sherrod. So we might as well like be done with it, which is weird for a king. Like one thing George really gave us a lot of his history books, which should talk about kings. So like maybe a barrow king, because they do curse. There's a couple quotes. There's the North, the King's a winner, and there's that there's historical proof existing for the war between the Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings to their South, who styled themselves Kings of the First Men and claimed supremacy over all First Men everywhere, even Starks themselves.

Runic records suggest their struggle, dubbed the Thousand Years' War by the singers, was actually a series of wars that lasted closer to 200 years than a thousand, ending when the last Barrow King bent his knee to the kings of winter and gave him the hand of his daughter in marriage. Oh, is it a joke about the Hundred Years' War, which is a big inspiration for George? Yeah, I was thinking that. No, but there's, I mean, that's a great one. There's literally one where it says the Barrow Kings, if anyone defies them as being kings, they'll, like, drain their corpse of life. The other one there is, do-do-do. Other tales recorded in Kennet's Passages of the Dead claim a curse was placed on the Great Barrow that would allow no living man to rival the First King. was placed on the great barrow that would allow no living man to rival the first king this curse made these pretenders to the title grow corpse-like in their appearance as it sucked away their vitality and life this is no more than legend to be sure but that the dust and share blood and

descent from the barrow kings of old seem sure enough to be sure yeah that's interesting with that quote i didn't there's so much in that book i love that book for some of these little things because it's like it slips your mind that's a little crazy that they drain the life force from their enemies basically i know which again like so much cross-pollination because grow corpse like that could That could sound very, you know, white. Yes, like zombie-esque a little bit. I didn't think about that. Duh, the opposite of life.

Wow, the barrows. It could be. And it is a total Georgism, right? Like one of my favorite things he does is when he's just having a good time making up history as he goes, making work for all of us that have to follow it for no reason, because it doesn't come up again. But the name was interesting, too. The name kind of, I was looking at some of the etymology, and the name Sherritt first arose in the Anglo-Saxon tribes of Britain and is derived from having lived in Cheshire, where the family was found since the early Middle Ages. So, interesting, like the first family. I don't know, I kind of feel like he's kind of like one of those figures that I know has kind of inspired theories

like, I think, bolt-on or things like that. Yes, bolt-on comes from that, right? Bolt-on. You have to say that like that. Bolt-on, with a dash. You're the only one who knows this um every time i say it i also do the little hand motion of like you're bolting something on oh like wax on wax off but bolt on bolt on so there's also that mention of mad axe and even

just from that little bit about mad axe butchering his brothers in the dark it made me think of the hooded figure in winterfell like immediately i was like oh butchering his brothers in the dark, it made me think of the hooded figure in Winterfell. Like immediately I was like, oh, butchering his brothers in the dark, like Mad Axe. Do you think that Ghost of Winterfell is also a ginger? Maybe. I mean, can't tell in the dark, can you? Or a former ginger? Oh, but then I really couldn't tell you, but maybe. It's anyone's Game of Thrones at that point. Anyone's Game of Thrones. While these stories all

took place thousands of years ago, and some, not all, Bran still feared them. Once he had asked Uncle Benjen if they were true, and Benjen never really confirmed nor denied it. He just said, well, we did leave the Nightfort 200 or so years ago. One thing about stories. George loves to be meta. About the nature, the texture of stories. Oral storytelling versus canon. The place of the author.

Rewinding. I know some of you. I'm going to make a tiny minority of you, beautiful listeners, very happy. Because I know there's at least one of you who is a D&D fan. I know, there's just one. There's gotta be one. But not that D&D.

There's gotta be. Just for that intersectionality of Girls Gone Canon fan and Dimension 20 fan who might be watching the latest season of Dimension 20 and one of the latest season of Dimension 20. And one of the latest episodes of Dimension 20 got me thinking really about that.

I will not get too much into the details for the ladies who are not watching that, and that's going to be boring. But for the person, for the 1% of your listeners who's watching that, in one of their latest episodes, so it's a D&D, it's just a D&D podcast, you know, just

to re-conceptualize. It was being very meta about the nature of stories. The player characters were in a magical library where there were physical spaces that were symbolic of where the stories could be changed because they were just sold orally versus the place where the stories were written

in ink and the magical, possibly antagonist people that were the author. Then our player characters wanting to take control of their own story for you all the context you need that's brought a new light to the way i read that chapter so especially i think it can be into that little quote are those stories true what's true about those stories what makes a story true like it schroding of a story, it's both true and it's both not true. So, like, Benjamin, like, replies with less the Nightfort 200 years ago, which is a true fact.

And we were being told again and again and again the Nightfort, you know, the abandoned Nightfort just because it was too big and too costly. Like, we're told that all the time. In all the quotes about the Nightfort, it said that the bandit replaced the huge and ruinous costly castle. We have that quote at least four times. But we also have, and that's my second Alicent quote for you,

during her visit to the knight's fort in around 58 AC, Alicent writes to her king, The night fort itself she found grim and sinister. It is so huge, the men seem dwarfed by it, like mice in a ruined hole, she told Jairus. And there is a darkness there, a taste in the air. I was so glad to leave that place. It's very vague, but there's a sense of dread. It's not just a practical matter. She feels something.

She feels something. That's great because Bran does too. I mean, they feel something's wrong. You're going to put the finger onto it. And that's like the starting point of the story. You know what I mean, they feel something's wrong. Yeah, so you're going to put the finger onto it. And that's like the starting point of the story. You know what I mean? That's what's in common with everything. It's that germination of something really wrong at the heart of the Night Force.

She feels it. There's something that you're saying that's interesting with Benj and too, i'm really i'm really into these days the omission of information meaning something i love when george does that it's something that like what's a book turn on for me i'm like oh yeah omit information some more to make you really think and he doesn't answer him but these stories are the answer right like the feeling that aliceanne felt at the night fort which we see her become a big proponent for taking the night fort down and abandoning it right she's very much like they need to get out of there that place is bad and y'all need to get out of there like that's a murdery place get out bad things are gonna happen there and bran shows up he's like bad things are gonna happen here jojan dude this isn't good this isn't good this isn't good that

is what has culminated all of these stories passed down orally. That feeling inspires those stories, whether they're real or not. Something in them is real. Exactly. And part of me kind of wonders at the same time, like, is this something we should also be questioning in terms of like, the stories tell us that X-ing is bad. For example, the stories over the years told us that the free folk were bad. And then we find that, oh, they're just like, they're people, same as everyone else, right? And something good kind of actually ends up happening at the night for it in that he meets the brother of his brother in a way that's kind of like an extended family.

Sam's like his in-law, if you think about it. But, you know, like a good thing happens there. Um, but you know, like a good thing happens there. And so it's like, obviously these stories have been twisted over the years, but sometimes they're worse than we thought. Sometimes they're better than we thought. Like was Night's King sacrificing people? Probably bad. But at the same time, like how did that get twisted? We see that there's a story of love maybe of devotion that's there too or like some of these nine sentinels i mean clearly they were running from something but anyway i know you're talking about how george is this master of omission and and i just really wanted to say like he's so good at it he's omitted the sixth and seventh book i'm sorry i could not

i couldn't help myself i couldn't help myself oh god, he has omitted the sixth and seventh books so far. But he's a gardener, Eliana. He can garden those books into being, so I think we should give him a break. Yeah, it goes into those histories and stories being that overarching theme of Bran's POV. And not just Bran's POV, but I really think a storm of swords right because Bran and a storm of swords I mean a storm of swords too some some of the greatest storytelling of all time is the story that doesn't give us everything about the rebellion but paints a very new picture about the rebellion and also doesn't again the omission and then in Jon's last chapter

yeah like the rest of the story Jon's last chapter. Yeah, like the rest of the story. Jon's last chapter right before this, you know, the one when Ygritte died. We talked about it earlier very briefly. Womp, womp, womp. But he also has a history of the Wall and of the Free Folk and of Lord Commanders that he is going back and forth with Donald Noy about before the battle. And he's thinking about. And we have this line. Did you know 600 years ago the commanders at snowgate and night fort went to war against each other and when the lord commander tried to stop them they joined

forces to murder him the stark and winterfell had to take a hand and both their heads which he did easily because their strongholds were not defensible different times obviously because there was a start in winterfell and the Night's Watch was a little stronger at this time. Interesting with the whole murdering the Lord Commander bit there. But we have stories in all of these chapters going on right now. Oh, yeah. And also, they only have records

of the Night's Watch Commander going back 600 years ago. 13th Lord Commander that was murdered by... Okay, anyway. That's a tangent. We can... So, yeah. Missions, exactly. of commander that was murdered by okay anyway that's a tangent we can we can that is like that so yeah omissions exactly we had that kernel of something so does that something you know again then orality manifest and is transmitted as you know mad acts the thing that comes in the dark

or then like kind of amorphous fears for children or do we then attribute it to the wrong things the wildling or then like do we use it to tell moral tales 79 sentinels you cannot desert your post or bad things will happen to you or the rat cook which is a tale about guest right which is very important to know you know it's all like incarnation we use the same kernel of something twisted and evil and then we're gonna make leave that into a story to serve a purpose and i think that's something that george is exploring very much in that chapter that's why he's giving giving us a dump of a bunch of name of tales, some that we never hear about again,

when he could have explored Bran's fear in that chapter in other ways. To go back to something you said, oh yeah, good things come in that chapter. The fears, what he was afraid of doesn't manifest. Those fears don't manifest but something really bad is going to happen in that chapter we're going to touch on it there's going to be at least one really bad thing that would happen in that chapter that's true we're making our way to it ronnie's a lover of all tales but his favorite were always the ones about monsters

but his favorites were always the ones about monsters and the knights, as Sansa says in A Clash of Kings, and there were others. Monstrous savages out of one of Ol' Nan's tales, the scary one Bran used to love. As Bran's story progresses, he thinks more and more about the monsters and less and less about the knights. And this is a classic horror chapter where George's early career as a horror writer really shines. Absolutely. And maybe this is jumping ahead too much, but you were saying bad things happen in this chapter. Brent's so afraid of all these monsters and bad things happening at the night fort. He's the monster in the chapter. No. He's the monster in the chapter.

No, he is the monster in the chapter. No. Your monster, Eliana. He is the thing that comes in the night. Absolutely. He is the Night's King. What? Sorry.

Possibly. Is that theory not practical? Not in that chapter. But, you know, he is possibly the Night's King. But here, he is the thing that comes in the night. He is the thing driving someone crazy. Okay, jumping ahead again. The morning is bright, but the wind is loud, causing the keep to groan as it settles and the scrabble of rats can be heard under the hall.

He thinks, the rat cook's children running from their father. Hmm. Trees grow through what were the stables, a weirwood through the kitchen, and even summer's uneasy. Bran tries to smell the place through summer and doesn't like it. They find there's no way through. Jojen insists on seeing for himself and says he had a green dream that there is and that his dreams do not lie. I know.

Bran. Why does Bran always have to be an asshole to Jojen? I mean, Jojen's not always right, but they really have an antagonistic relationship. It's not like Bran has ever been to the Nightfort either. He's afraid, right? Like, he's very scared. He's lashing out a little. And also, I think it's hard because Jojen, in a way, takes away his autonomy in a different way right Bran can't

do the things he wants even though he's a prince because Jojen has the crystal ball and Jojen doesn't release information like up front obviously because things change and dreams change and his interpretations of his dreams change but I think that's frustrating for Bran that does take away a part of his ability to do things is that he has to follow Jojen's plan. And especially when he's grown up hearing these horror stories about the Nightfort, I can at least see why he's probably pushing back. Like, maybe we just shouldn't, dude. Maybe not. We should just not go there. Yeah, but I think that has to be a part of it, right? That Jojen, even though he serves Bran loyally, you know, I mean, he's very respectful, does

everything for his grace. Also, kind of like Davos to Stannis in a way, right? Like tells him the bitter truths that Bran doesn't want to hear or do. It's a complicated dynamic between what vassal, prince, elder, to an extent by a few years to not and then also the one who has the knowledge versus the one who doesn't a lot of different things the shamanism too right like it's almost like they're in the same group but not yeah socially and then being able-bodied versus not etc there's that yeah i feel like there's also a thing about responsibility because bren is still a child

and georgian reminds him of his responsibilities yeah it makes him feel small like a child child yeah which children are small it's true yeah but also like when he would want to live through summer instead right if he had his way like being a kid right if you had your way you'd be outside like half naked covered in mud all day right like when you're a kid nothing matters and he wants that he craves that he craves that freedom that independence that he will never in his life be able to have because of his disabilities and and i mean i get it because when i was a kid much younger than brando i think i've disclosed this already i wanted to grow up to be a dog or a horse um when i was four years old you did um i wanted to grow up to be a dog so i

understand why brand would want to be summer i mean i want to be a bog witch and i'm 45 yeah yeah like it doesn't really change no good dogs and good bogs am i right a dog in a bog actually i bet that dog's having a good life too. Anyway. The gate was sealed when the Watch abandoned the post for Deep Lake, almost as impenetrable as the wall itself. Bran says they should have followed Jon, thinking of the day they watched him ride off in the storm,

and we get a little peek back to what happened. They should have gone to Castle Black, he thinks. They should have helped Jon fight the free folk that were attacking him. But they are only four, even though they thought they could commandeer a ship a couple chapters ago. And he did help his brother. It almost cost him Summer, though. Summer had killed three of the men, but one of the arrows to come after him gave Bran a sudden stab of pain, driving him out of Summer.

They huddled in the dark with no fire as the storm died and bran tried to reach out to summer again but the pain drove him back like a red hot kettle we discussed earlier how a lot of the stuff from a song for leah and those themes carry on into this one right and this makes me think a lot about this idea of pain and loneliness it's it's on a literal level here but it's something that we see throughout the story right like how pain and fear causes us to push others away because summer is in pain brand cannot reach him he wants to be alone to lick his wounds but at the same time sometimes when you're in pain and you're making it hard for people to reach you even though they care about

you that's sometimes when you need them most right right? Like we see, for example, at the end of this book, Tyrion finds out this hurtful thing from Jaime about what happened to him in the past when it comes to Tysha. And the pain that Jaime does to Tyrion because of that untruth, because of that omitting of that fact, is a very real, deep, and hurtful pain, just like what Summer is doing now. And because of it, Tyrion lashes out. He pushes Jaime away, claims that he killed Jaime's son, even though he didn't, but everyone else thinks he did. But anyways, so that's something that we're seeing throughout this story. So that's something that we're seeing throughout this story. And it makes me think of something that our friend Warren said in reaction to our coverage of A Song for Leah of like, you know, while the conclusion that Leah comes to isn't maybe like the only one, but the idea of you need to open yourself up to other people in order to receive love. Sometimes you need to open yourself up to and give love in order to be able to get it yeah the pack survives right it's very much the pack survives is what it makes me think about yeah even though they're all isolated right now the goal is being stronger together yeah bran had been terrified summer was dying and he prayed to

the old gods you took winterfell and my father and my legs please don't take summer too and watch over john snow too and make the wildlings go away. I have some very bad news about everything Bran just said right now. The first thing is that, yes, they took Winterfell. You're not going back there for a while. Yes, the father, the legs, don't take Summer too. Hmm. Watch over Jon Snow? Hmm. Make the wildlings go away? Hmm. These are all interesting things you're asking for, Bran. Okay, but Jon comes back. Summer's not going to come back.

It's going to be awful. When that happens, you're going to throw the book. You're going to be real mad at me specifically. I'm already mad at you. You're always mad at me. That's what keeps our interactions, know so fun sexy i don't know and i feel like you're trying to make me mad at you too why i know right i just like to get a rise out of my friends i feel attacked i know i'm an instigator you should she's attacking i know i'm thinking that he's gonna lose that he would lose his mother

you know rob and gray when a week later he's fucking tragic yeah he shouldn't have prayed he should have just kept that one to himself i mean he prayed and there were no weirwoods maybe that was a problem yeah at least now he's surrounded by the one i like the one that we have we're gonna talk about the one he's near now. I like that we're getting more Weirwoods as we go north, too. In all the chapters, right? In Sam's, in Bran's, in Jon's, we had a couple. They're everywhere.

Well, the old gods had been good, though, to him that day, because the free folk had tried to take the causeway to Queen's Crown, but nearly drowned and marched off north by east like Jon had. That's a bad part. That's not good. Jojen makes them wait a little bit before they leave, put some leagues between them, and later Summer ends up getting a snack,

nursing himself back with some parts of the Free Folk that had been left behind. He swims out to the island and Meera tends to his back leg, and the gang gets back together. So there's a little tidbit in that chapter He swims out to the island and Mira tends to his back leg and the gang gets back together. man yelled at them his word echoing across the water in some tongue that even Jojen did not know. And that's a thing that I've been ruminating about for a while. I have a hard time coming up with a good in-universe reason as to why the old tongue would have disappeared from the north. The world book, the text itself, it mentions runes and we have mastered translations so we have reason to think that it was a written language somewhat commonly used above the wall and the north is really

in its own way isolationist why has he completely disappeared from the north like that makes no sense to me that they're not using both and andalos and the old tongue and i think the answer is george doesn't do well with other languages that's the meta answer that's like the not fun answer i do think culturally we talked a little back when bran was having some of his courtly politics lessons right in a game of, right, in A Game of Thrones and in A Clash of Kings after his family's left and he's kind of ruling alongside Rodrik, for example, it definitely seems like there are qualms from the Northerners that their culture has been kind of changed over time, gone a little less embraced, right?

Like less of it was embraced and that they kind of have started to take on some of the south a little bit right even back recently when you think of like the idea of southern ambitions and marrying off to the south and this and that uh even traditionally it just seems that some of the traditions have not necessarily gone by the wayside but that is interesting because during house of the dragon eliana talked a lot about you know we were kind of mad that why didn't raniera start teaching valerian to her children from a very young age right like if they are to be the heirs that is a very important thing that they should know and it's interesting to think like why and it is probably the meta answer it's just a garden it's also a gardening effect right he was like oh i should

have this man speaking the old lost language of the north but it would be something very important especially for like the stark children to know right of their heritage yeah i mean historically it would not disappear unless there's like a political reason like i can think taking the example like france had a very strong political will to make regional language disappear. They were bad to their own people. It was forbidden to be taught in school. They would only teach canon French and not regional language. But we have, again, like back to Alessandre, Alaric says, at first, first response, no, I'm not marrying any of my kids to, you know, any sovereign because we keep our things.

And that was not that long ago. That dude should have been speaking the old tongue. He should have been, like, someone who thinks that way. There's no reason he's not teaching the old tongue to his kids. That doesn't jive in universe. It's been thousands of years already by that point. I think it's really telling that the people that still speak it are giants and free folk tribes and thens know how to speak it, right?

And where do they live? And where were they put? And where were they not allowed? I mean, I think it's obvious to see kind of why it died out. Makes me think of the runes, right? When you think of the Royces with the runes on their sigil are those northern runes or are i can't remember if they actually are first men runes because i believe they're first men runes right the royces are first men houses back to the battle of the

seven stars they were a first man house technically and so i believe those are northern runes i think it's just very old and forgotten locationally right if it's the other thing is george i think he said in this interview i was trying to find a quote that he did say so eliana to your point he doesn't have a whole imaginary language the way tolkien did tolkien was an oxford don could spend decades laboriously inventing elvish alas he is only a hard-working sci-fi and fantasy novelist and doesn't have his gift he hasn't created the valyrian language the best he could do was sketch in chief tongues of his imaginary world in broad strokes and give them

characteristic sounds and spellings which you can kind of see that when it comes to some of those shorter consonant names of the houses in the north right like stout wool stark so i could see that but skagos i believe they probably speak the old tongue there if we get any glimpse at it in the next two books with davos going there and rick and osha we might see some of that maybe rick and we'll start learning it. different variations on it right they have different dialects that could even be almost very like almost un-understandable to one another right because but i think also you know again on that meta level part of why george has the old tongue being spoken by some of the people who are on the other side of the wall part of it is because they yeah while they have a diversity of different tribes keep that sort of homogeneity they don't

need the common tongue as much in order to communicate with not only the rest of the realm but with the rest of the other the other uh civilizations right in terms of trade and things like that but also like he's he's emulating the way that like languages such as some of the Celtic languages, right, eventually have become spoken by much more of a minority in the United Kingdom or Gaelic and how those languages have kind of, some people speak them, but it's not as much, it's not as prevalent. And again, some of them also have different versions of like different kinds of Gaelic, etc, that are spoken around. and that's something that George I don't think even thought about when he was coming up with the old tongue

but if thinking in world maybe there's like tinfoil to be had of like what if the old tongue was a little too tied to some of the the magics that kind of fucked everything up yeah a little too magical but in the bad way like zombies oh yeah yeah yeah and realistically it's also just showing us that we're closer to the wall yeah because it's still spoken beyond the wall and this man lives right up by the wall kind of also goes along with the idea of like like what like he just said right like oh there's no more giants you know and or there's none of this none of that. All these things are gone.

Monsters are gone because this chapter is proving, no, they're not. All these things are still real and still exist. Even then, what tongue were the giants speaking? You know, if we're asking why are the Northmen from Westeros speaking the common tongue and not the old tongue? Well, the giants are indigenous, right, to Westeros, and the old tongue was the giants are indigenous right to westeros and the old tongue was brought over by the first men so what language were the giants speaking before because i don't imagine they were speaking the old tongue either i agree with you chloe i am not asking george to come up with the old tongue language is not a linguist, that's not his job.

They could all in book be speaking common, because again, like, if masters can translate runes, that means that they'd still know something to be able to translate. Because we had mentioned of if

blah blah blah's translation can be trusted. Yeah yeah that makes sense but yeah to your point it makes no sense that the old race is strong because that's a human language they don't need it anymore now it seems you know in the south the south of the wall it's what i'm saying south yeah not the the north which is above the wall winterfell sold out you know they were like seven kingdoms seven kingdoms, I guess so. I guess so. So they planned their next move.

Bran says Castle Black, Eastwatch, and Shadow Tower have open gates through the wall, so Meera decides to take a climb up the wall to get a better vantage point. Bran thinks it should be me, and it is a disappointing feeling. He's imagining the greatest climb of them all, because once, he was the climber. In spite of everything, it makes him smile, and he imagines the clouds

breaking, the sun hitting everything, the transformation of white and blue glittering ice. Beautiful. He would see monsters there at the end of the world, but they couldn't pass as long as the wall stood strong. He thinks, I want to stand on top with Mira. I want to stand on top and see. But he was a broken boy with useless legs, so all he could do was watch from below as Mira went up instead. Poor Bran. Mira climbs up steps that were created by the watch, the Nightfort steps, as Lewin and Benjen had told Bran. These are the only steps that are still cut from the ice of the wall new castles all had wooden or stone steps or ramps because ice is treacherous the wall had wept icy tears making these steps harder to climb they were smooth and small and over time becoming

swallowed by the wall meanwhile the rest of the group does their own scouting on the ground. Summer finds a gray rat and Bran thinks, oh, it's the rat cook. But the rat cook was white. Actually, that's Remy, the rat from Ratitude. Oh, oh. Oh, no. Oh, no, he is a little gray.

It's a cameo. Or it all makes me think of the Maesters, but also it makes me think of John being like, this can't be my arrow because it's a different color. I was thinking about the color there. I thought that was really interesting, especially because Summer finds a gray rat stark colored and the rat cook was white,

which reminds me of Ghost. Ghost is a cook. Maybe Ghost is a cook. Does anyone else wonder why there's so many rats in a castle that's been abandoned 200 years ago? That's a good point. Yeah, because I was thinking that reading this chapter, I'm like, what are they eating? The last chapter had apples.

So what about here? Yeah, it's been abandoned so long ago. There's no reason rats are scavengers. They are going to live next to humans. There are no humans. There's no reason rats or scavengers, they are going to live next to humans. There are no humans. There's no reason for there to be rats. It makes no sense. And so who else thinks there are obviously children of the forest.

I'm sorry. The ones who sing the song of the earth living underneath that castle and they have their little economy, ecology, food. That's the only explanation I could think of and that's what makes everything so magical. I thought you were going to say they're in the rats.

Yeah, because there's no reason. I mean, they could be, yeah, that's the rats walking around and spying. That's why there are so many like, there were those people around here and there's no reason for rats to be in a place with no food deserted that explains the rats the weirwood we're going to talk about the weirwood in a bit too because i thought the weirwood was really

interesting because it's very young still which means it wasn't necessarily planted like perhaps it was planted 200 years ago 250 years ago when they left yeah like why would you plant one there after you leave it's just growing up through the kitchen that's not something that someone would do purposefully why slash how did this weirwood start growing exactly might be the tenants that live in the basement oh yeah i was exactly thinking about that and the construction of that castle is weird literally the stairs yeah wood ah weird wood weirding wood i mean yeah that's that's weird but literally i guess too the weirding way yeah literally this is the weirding way for Bran. Leto the second. Wormboy. Leto pizza.

Leto pizza wormboy. What is that? It's like a square pizza. It's spelled L-E-D-O though, not L-E-T-O. L-E dingo. Oh my god. So after finding dark doors and rats, Yum.

Jojen hopes to go to the cellar and the tunnels below, but Bran does not. He explains that the castle is twice as old as Castle Black, which is the first castle and the largest. But also, this is the first castle that was abandoned due to its size and the cost to maintain. Queen Alyson had suggested it be replaced and deep lake was created paid for by her jewels and the night fort was left to the rats oh the rats are the ones guarding it oh maybe it's like maybe it's like in beauty and the beast right and the rats are the brothers watching the castle anyway or like cinderella anyways so last episode and you you all were also discussing how alison had a bad feeling about this fort anyway and i was just like i don't understand this seems like an extra special fort maybe it's one that we should keep but i guess it makes sense with the black

gate if that was there already like you can dependably abandon this one because the black gate seems like a very secure way to make sure that the castle is manned without needing to be manned because you don't need a person there when you have a giant talking tree. That's such a good point. I didn't think about it, but now I have it in my head. I can see her arriving there with a watchman and her saying, so what defenses does this castle have? And then everyone goes like this. They're like, come look. And then they swoop their arms,

and they're like, it's this, and it's the Rainforest Cafe. This is our talking, crying gate. Good luck. Don't you just love him? I mean, or there's always that small possibility, because we've seen that time and time again, that they had totally at that point forgotten about the talking tree at the bottom of the well.

I mean, we'll never know. But we've seen that happen. That's true. I think they must have known, and maybe they were like, yeah, you're right, we can't abandon this tree. You take care of it. And the tree was like, okay. Okay. I mean, everything talks in this place, so. Yeah, it's like Beauty and the Beast.

It is Beauty and the Beast, actually. It's like the abandoned Beauty and the Beast. Now, okay. I'm allowing it. You're rehired. You're rehired. George loves Beauty and the Beast, so. It's true. That should be the title of this episode. Be Our Guest. George loves Beauty and the Beast. Be Our Guest.

This is the Be Our Guest. Be Our Guest, right. And then eating the beast. Yeah, they come to the night fort. This is the be our guest. Be our guest, right? And then Bran is like, no, no. Anne gets me. Be our guest, right? Be our guest, right? That's all of this episode. Yes. Yeah, there you go. So two centuries later, two centuries

later from our last story from Queen Alysanne, both castles are empty and the night fort is full of ghosts. Nothing worked. Bran breaks down the story next of the 79 sentinels who went south to be outlaws. Lord Riswell's youngest son had been one of them. They sought shelter in the Barrowlands, but Lord Riswell took them captive and brought them back to the night fort where holes were hooned in the wall for deserters to be sealed alive in ice. They left their posts in life, so in their death, their watch goes on forever, we read. This feels so ominous. It feels

like it means something about the endgame of the story, especially if there's something like Bran giving a life sentence to a deserter beyond the wall. Who knows? Who knows? But also, I love the bringing in the sentinels because it's very reminiscent of Jon's last chapter in The Wall where at the battle they have scarecrows on The Wall. They have their very own sentinels. Men in black cloaks, visible on the roofs and tower tops as well, though nine of every ten happen to be made of straw.

The scarecrow sentinels, Donald Noy called them, only were the crows, Jon mus mused and most of us scared enough i thought bringing john into this especially is interesting something about all of the times he wanted to run south to be with his family right and thinking what the 79 sentinels would have been feeling and what they were running from i have a hunch i don't know if you two have a similar hunch of what they might have been running back from Zombies in your head, but that story is really it becomes a little sadder too when it comes to Lord Rizwell and what he does he takes them captive brings them back to the night for it to do their duty where they'll do their Duty forever, but eventually gives himself to it too out of love and duty for his son

Especially cuz he probably knows what they're running from there's something interesting about especially because he probably knows what they're running from there's something interesting about familiarity of it right for john and benjen and coming into this kind of family gig with the the commanders at the wall and the different knights watchmen it makes me think most i guess we can talk about it a little later of like jay or and jorah too yes you know you're talking about like if this will mean anything for bran later king of summer giving a life sentence to maybe a deserter and i do i do think in my perspective if john is resurrected and leaves the wall i don't think there's a loophole i think he has to be a deserter and they've been playing it up over and over and again like what will finally get you to desert

right and we've discussed this quite a bit more during john's chapters of what would cause him to break his vows what would cause him to desert and it being family i i don't think that him dying releases him of his vows which is you know what many people have said like oh well the vows say like you know until your death and i don't know maybe it would maybe it wouldn't right and and the show certainly plays it that way of him having died but i do think that just because the words say that you're a part of the night's watch until you die and you coming back like there's a literal way to take that but i have personally always felt that it misses the spirit of the vows and like the point of it and i've always kind of seen the 79

sentinels as as proof of that right that's meant to show that the vows persist even into death again like the nature of that vows why they desert they desert okay let's say zombies they desert because they were scared aka our prologue? Or did they desert to warn people, to call for help? Yeah. Like John. And then they were turned back because no one believed them. That's a good point. Because then if John leaves to kind of, I don't know, get the realm to rally behind,

hey, we got a big war against a bunch of zombies happening. That's still true to the spirit of the vows but could it be seen like it makes it muddy yeah i'm the horde that wakes the sleepers but everyone else because they have lost the vision of what they're supposed to be defending against or despite staying at their post not acting as night's watchmen exactly what is their post what is their mission their vows transcend life and death right like their vows are more important and something bigger in protecting the realm and being one and there's also something in there that makes me think of quentin with men's lives have

meaning not their deaths right so john dying as lord commander and what he does when he's alive on either side of the veil is more important than that. His actions will speak to that. I wonder if like you break your vows or something or you don't keep true to them and you're like going through the tree mouth. There's a snapshot in the middle like you don't get to pass and just chomps you. Oh my god. And on that, to piggyback on that, if he breaks his, you know, him dying, breaking his vows

or when he breaks his vows, is the punishment that they get to throw eggs at him? You know, eggs on him? What? Egg on him? Just eggs? Oh, egg on him. How dare you, Aegon? Just throwing eggs. Yeah. At Aegon. Hmm. Much to think about, Eliana. And Anne. Much to think about.

I know. I mean, again, like, he didn't deserve it, but Jon was killed for breaking his vows. Yeah, that one definitely seemed like he was breaking his vows. And he's like, let's go fight Winterfell, as you and I discussed back then, Chloe. We were like, that was a bad call. Little out of pocket, Jon. Not a thing I would have announced to a room of people. Should have lied maybe and said he's threatening the Night's Watch. We must go in.

I don't know. He could have politically. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the Night's Watch became House Stark. We support House Stark now. Even though they're gone. So speaking of the people being gone.

Yeah, as you said, Lord Risbell takes the Black to stand with his son. Oh. Oh, whoa. It is actually really sweet. Special. They spend half the day poking through the Fallen Towers, climbing the Bell Tower and the Rookery. All of these are empty. They find a vault of oaken casks in the Brewhouse,

a collapsed library. I wonder if those are still good. A dank dungeon. Rat juice. Fermented rat. in the brew house a collapsed library i wonder if those are still good uh a dank dungeon for a fermented rat a dank dungeon to hold 500 men it's rusted and falling apart one wall remains in the great hall the bathhouse is sinking a thorn bush conquers the yard outside the armory but the armory and forge still stands albeit covered in cobwebs and rats. I love this description against the Harrenhal stuff, too. Oh. In this book.

I didn't really think about it, but the Brienne and Jamie stuff at Harrenhal. You know, lots of decay. Their stories are tied together. The next POV is Jamie. Lots of rats. And the rats. Lots of rats. That's what I was thinking.

I was like, oh, all this just obviously far too big for anyone to actually hold or take care of, too. On their own. Summer seems to hear noises that the human ear does not, baring his teeth at nothing, fur sticking up. Ooh, scary. They never see the rat cook, mad axe, nor the sentinels. They're in the wall, we went over this. By the time Mira returns, the sun has almost set.

Mira saw the haunted forest, rising hills, untouched trees, sunlight on the lake, clouds, snow, icicles long as pikes, even an eagle circling, which may or may not be Varamyr. I think he saw me too. I waved at him. But she doesn't see a way down. Having come this way already in Jon's chapters, we know there really isn't an easy way down. Without rope and an axe, she wouldn't be able to descend the other side, and the rest of the group wouldn't be able to with rope and axe, as we know. She asks if Jojen is sure he dreamed of this castle, that it's not the wrong castle just by chance, but he insists this is it. There is a gate here. it's funny how the rat cook maddox and centendale like i think that comes up three times throughout

the chapter those three particularly and it's like yeah it's like you know we have three again we didn't really go through the structure of the chapter but we have like three parts in the chapter and like that's that little refrain again much like a song again a lot of brand chapters in that book like songs and that's the chorus like neither and so sometimes the order of the story changes but that comes back like it comes back for each other parts that it is like the break between the parts of the chapter i just want to throw that in here it reminds me of jamie's chapters right in feast when he starts repeating all the people that cersei supposedly slept with from tyrian and moon boy for all i know or john connington with the ringing of the bells kind of becoming that chorus that they're hearing in every

single chapter yeah yeah why are we talking about jamie so much could he be next pov actually oh my god no you couldn't pay me to do jamie again god leave me alone oh i'd do it for free uh i like the jamie chapters brand moves on to the next scary story knights king who had been the 13th man to lead the knights watch which, which, haha, okay, George, we get it, 13. A warrior who knew no fear, and Old Nan would say, that was the fault in him, for all men must know fear. And I thought that was, that was, really stood out to me, right? Because if Night's King doesn't know any fear, that, that's an important part of Bran's story, Night's King doesn't know any fear.

That's an important part of Bran's story. Because we're told right from the beginning of his entire storyline that when can a man be brave? That is the only time a man can be brave, when he is afraid. What does that say, then, about Night's King? He's someone who had no bravery. He wasn't gallant.

I know. And Bran, that's what we said earlier about repression, never lets himself I mean, we said that in context of grief, but he also never lets himself be afraid. Yeah, he thinks about it. But he represses. And then he's like,

no. I'm a Stark. I have to be brave. Or I have to not be afraid. I'm a man grown now. I'm a man grown now. I'm a man grown of seven. And you are not. I'm Rob's heir. And I'm like, uh...

True. True. You are the heir, but not a man grown. You are a small boy, and you are gonna stay that way in my head until I get a goddamn book, so. Yeah. That's why George wanted his time skip.

He still wouldn't be a man grown after that, though. No, no. Still a youngster. A teen. Tween. Unlikely king. Tween. Not yet a man, not yet a boy. Abba teens.

Wrong song. Wrong song. You know what's funny? One thing I just want to throw in is that before we dive, because obviously the Night's King is our monster of legend. He's our big bad. But he's barely raised in that chapter. He's the one you should be thinking about all the time. But we have a big, in that chapter, a big seven mentions of the Rat Cook.

But he will repeat one mention, the name multiple times, but only two mentions of the Night's King. It keeps it really mysterious. He keeps it mysterious because it hints at something. But I also think that I don't think that the main antagonist in this book or like in this story is going to be called the Night's King and George even makes a point of calling out that a big difference between the show and his books and I'm like George this is like literally an article and a possessive right in the show the main antagonist on that magical level is called the Night King. Whereas in the book, it's Night's King, not the Night's King, it's Night's King.

And George seems to find that very important, even though I'm like, seems like you're splitting hairs. But I think that speaks to us about like that, the nature of our, you know, how the others started and all of that is different than the origins that we are told in the show like i think that there's there's more to it and more to a lot of it than that i think that there's some truths in regards to the familial aspect but i think we'll come back to that in a second yeah that's why i deleted the in all of our notes i don't know if you saw me doing the

clean you're like what the fuck is eliana doing and i'm like no but that's it it's possessive right he belongs to the knight knight's king it's the king that belongs not dark star my god it's not dark star but i don't know like belongs to the knight yeah we belong to the night but that's literally it and i'm serious as we read this, because he belongs to the knight. And when you think of kings, kings don't belong to anyone, right? What is the biggest part of all these kings were meaning? They're like, I am the king. I am the king.

I own everything. But the knight owned this king, which speaks to his motives and what drove him, right? The knight drove him. He didn't have his own motives. He was driven by something else so we have the passage that tells us about the knight's king that he fell due to a woman which i think this comes uh this comes really well coming off of the last chapter which is john cradling egret as she dies having broken his vows for egret a little on the nose the knight's king falls due to a woman glimpsed from atop the wall

they made out there once, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. He chased her, loved her, and gave her his seed as well as his soul. He proclaimed her queen at the Nightfort and bound his sworn brothers to his will through sorcery, ruling for thirteen years until the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the Free Folk joined them to free the Watch from bondage. He had been sacrificing to the others, and his name was destroyed and erased from history. I find this interesting in the context of Jon not only with Ygritte in the last chapter, but of course, there may or may not, may or may not, be a relationship that he has with Daenerys, right? He may or may not proclaim her his queen while he's in the north with her, right? When she comes north, if they meet eventually.

I find that really interesting and just some great parallels for Jon's story, especially after he went through it chapter by chapter and caught some of those great those great moments of like Rhaegar and Lyanna that seep through in his chapters accidentally, even though he doesn't know anything about them. You know, he was wrong to love her, wrong to leave her. Right. And feels very knights king in a way funny is that so we have a few versions of that same story which they're very similar and yes we're talking about a mission and i was talking about you know the canon and the thing and it's like those slight difference in wording that's always really exciting in the version from the citadel i mean from the world book so that's the citadel all of a sudden the woman gleams from the top of the wall becomes a sorceress because of course like and it was really like sorceress term who seduced him

with her dark magic yeah which like i that was like, of course misogyny, and, like, of course maesters, we're gonna go there. I'm not even buying that, because you could so see, like, the little maester being like, oh yeah, she's just a temptress, like, oh, who, or that seducing woman, she's just

a sorceress. Yeah, and I think we'll see a lot of that to come in the books, right? There will be some of that from history, probably, especially since the Night's King is wiped from history for his egregious crimes. Whatever he did, which we'll never know because it was that

serious, apparently. There's those great lines in the Jon chapters about he was motherless, you know, orphaned, damned, all that good stuff. But also those lines about because of his betrayals to the Night's Watch, he knows and thinks that he will, he'll never be heard in history again. He's a betrayer, treasonous.

I find that interesting to come to. It's also interesting, you know, not saying that like, yeah, all the blame should be, the blame isn't like put on Night's King. And they don't call the the woman they call her like a corpse queen but no capitalization kind of right she's not the one to blame it's the guy who succumbed to her but at the same time we haven't really seen much that shows us women others or something before right we're not shown that much and then it also makes me think of something like

in the next book of amen being like i don't know we never considered that it could be a princess and then i also think of like could this this person right this other be similar to like the the woods witch from the harlan and herndon of house tarly legends and they who wouldn't every time they had intercourse with her when the moon was full they wouldn't age that that again sounds like a maser's fever dream yeah i mean they do love their threesomes or something like that it very much reminds me of the you know creationism and Adam and Eve and Eve being blamed for being the seductress, the temptress. But Adam also wanted the knowledge. He wanted the fruit.

And that's knights, king and queen. Yeah. But now in regards to what's erased, right? I'm kind of like, maybe she should have gotten a little more credit. Yeah. So it's his name that's erased from history. So I like that point, you know, because the rest of his tale is there. So back to our old story thing.

They didn't erase his tale at all. Everyone knows about that. It's just his name. So that's like that's like john's so here we touch on one of john's fear but which is also like a very human fear especially male fear because patriarchy blah blah blah you know that notion that history is the thing of great man with your name in the history book and your name John doesn't have a name

he's not a star, he's a snow so his name that important because everyone knows the story of the Night King he's just motherless bastard

I get you but when you said that that story really doesn't sound like it's a one one person story like there was no name was erased because it was not a person with a name it doesn't ring like the thing of a person. It sounds like either a cautionary tale, like we have the version in the world book, like the Mace's version. You know, they largely dismiss these tales. Though some alone, there may have been Lord Commander who attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself

in the earliest days of the Watch. So it's like, well, careful, Lord Commander. You cannot try to take power over the watch, or your name will be erased out of the history books. Cautionary tale. Or it could be something older, something more primal, and be an expression of one of those evil forces whether it is that the great other or another one something else obviously we know that that story doesn't really make any sense because it's both a of the making of others yet it happens after the long night. I mean, it's kind of

a little bit tricky timeline-wise. I mean, it should have warned us that, first of all, when y'all thought they were gone, they were still there. The others were still there. But what you're saying makes me think of something of this idea of names have power, right? Of, even if a lot of the ways that we see it manifested is on a societal level, But what you're saying makes me think of something of this idea of names have power, right? Even if a lot of the ways that we see it manifested is on a societal level, we see it manifest on a personal level.

People draw power from their own names. Like, I am a Stark of Winterfell, therefore I should be brave. Or I am a Lannister of Casterly Rock, so I should be able to be cunning right how people have that and like it's it's not just like a threat that your name will be erased when you were saying that there's something primal about it it almost feels like a fear thing right like of a you don't ever give out who was it someone that we were talking to recently was talking about like the fey right you don't give out your real name because once you give out your real name someone can take control of you or something like that or can summon you and and is his name stamped out of the histories because because there is great power in it and they didn't want other people emulating it coming

back to the old language again like you earlier, stamping out all traces of that magic so that others cannot abuse it against the country or however they please. Which others? Ah, exactly. Exactly. The other people or the other people? Ah. There's another story

that we get that actually kind of solves some almost solves something we were questioning about this Night's King that old nan used to tell bran he might have been a bolton a magnar of skagos an umber a flint a nori or a woodfoot who ruled bear island before the iron men came but she knew the truth he was a stark much creepier that way the brother of the man who brought him down oh brother against brother will we see that we shall see or cousin against cousin or brother so we were yeah so much stark civil war i was thinking literally the dance but you know oh yeah the dance so we were talking about who the hell

had mormont's island right and i think this kind of sounds like the Woodfoots were wiped out by Iron Men. So the Iron Men might have been who arm wrestled. The Iron Men probably arm wrestled the Mormonts, which adds to their legendary feuding. And by feuding, I mean being raided and having all their shit fucked up by the Iron Men. So interesting. Very interesting. Nan would always pinch Bran's nose and say,

Mayhaps he was a Brandon Stark. Mayhaps he once slept in this very room. And I know she did that to fuck with him, but I'm like, yeah, mayhaps, dude. Absolutely mayhaps. Seems true. For fucking real. You're a monster, Brandon Stark. Yeah.

Think of how many of those bones of the Dreamers were Brandon Stark's. Shit. But Bran doesn't like that notion at all, probably because it could be close to the truth. Who knows, Bran? I think there's something interesting here of him giving into that darkness a little, right? Like, right now he's rejecting it, but soon, as we keep going on, he's giving into it.

Part of it is that temptation, right, to stand, I guess, next to mira right is how it plays out in this but also as we see a lot in in this story in general right like as we're reminded by john's story that love is the death of duty or or sometimes i think we're seeing that perhaps love can lead us to duty and i think we discussed that quite a bit in john's story as well and ned's story because love helped ned do the right thing in a lot of ways but in regards to love being the death of duty we're already seeing it twice come up in the same chapter for example or or the the those familiar connections, Lord Riswell

bringing back his deserter son and being like, he should probably die for this. And then Lord Brandon and his mysterious brother. And Night's King, whether or not he was a Brandon or not. Yeah, there's a lot of northern

dynamics going on there. Family. As far as brothers and legends, yeah. Oh, and then Tyrion kills his dad at the end of this book. At the end of this book. Exciting, exciting. Family's fun. Family's fun. Night's king was only a man by light of day, old Nan would say, but the knight was his to rule.

And it's getting dark. Actually, I think the knight ruled him. We already talked about that. Moving on. I like to think of him going to clubs. That's what it sounds like to me. Okay, him and Darkstar partying. Yeah.

The night was his to rule. Of the night. The reeds sleep in the kitchen where the rat cook baked. Drafty and cold, 12 feet across, stone steps circle down to water. They cannot see. It's bottomless. At least they're protected from the rain, thanks to the dome and the giant weirwood, although it's skinnier, as we said, than any Bran has seen before, and faceless,

but at least the gods were with them. Hodor shouts Hodor down the stone steps, hearing it echo until it fades to a whisper and tests throwing a big piece of slate in there as well brand scolds him saying he may have woken something they hear a gulp from the water when it finally lands oh i love that oh oh george how dare you it was so good a gulp as the water swallows the slate amazing and there's a little bit of that uh that black gate and white weirwood tree coloring going on that makes me think of the house of black and white and feast for Aria when she lands at her kind of magical threshold and passes

through that door and that tree like who's keeping watch of this night for it back to what Anne said is it the children of the forest and what comes and goes within it it can't just be rats or the children are in the rats also. Yeah.

I don't know. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which gives credence to Cinderella. Joe Magician's Laris Clubfoot theories.

Right, right. Yes, that too. Not Cinderella. Now that you say it. Not Cinderella. But it gives credence to Cinderella being canon. Hey, Sansa loses her

shoe soon. Yeah, and the Beauty and the Beast. The tree coming up through the gate, but also that it's intertwining into the kitchen also makes me think of Ithaca. That's it. But, you know, the Odyssey. Bran, the hero's

journey. That's all. It's all there. It's all there.'s all there it's all there but you know it's also there bran and he does not want to stay there but the reeds are determined hodor gathers firewood and jojen lights a fire mira debones a fish while bran ponders when the last supper had been in this kitchen and he's like at least it's not a meat pie. Ah, ah, a meat pie. Yum, yum. You know, because that's to come for sure. I do like them.

The rat cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterwards, the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the night fort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated. It was not for murder that the gods cursed him old man said nor for serving the andal king his son in a pie a man has a right to vengeance but he slew a guest beneath his roof and that the gods cannot forgive of course the rat cook in this chapter is a great storytelling device post red wedding to show you the phrase may or may not mayhaps we'll get comeuppance right for what

they have done to the starks earlier we had that line the rat cooks children running from their father and here you also have that line about him eating his young and we actually see that happen right like walter fray in a way is eating his young in that yeah you know they're they're like just dissolving between his hands he's he'll use them as any currency to get prestige right to continue having his pride and to make him look better but soon the rat cook's children do go running from their father they begin to diverge from his original plans in pursuit of glory for themselves right literally hashtag free fight yeah and then literally yes very literally yeah i mean george does love his foreshadowing. That's probably why that the rat cookies are the most mentioned of the stories, even though he has nothing really to contribute, but he keeps on repeating his rat cookies because he was so, he loved his manderly. He was so excited about his little Frey Pie moment that I know even though he's a girl,

he had that one already in the back of his head when he wrote that chapter. He knew he was gonna get to it. Yeah. And just could not wait to plant these little seeds there for the readers. And you can really see it. Maybe that's why Bran feels such a kinship to Lord Manderly. They're like, oh, we like the same stories. And Manderly's like, yeah, I really like that Radcook story. I've always wanted to try it myself.

No, I'm joking. Mayhaps. But he makes sure not to. He's like, it is a good story. And what if I didn't break guests' rights so I gave them some horses? Some parting gifts. Bitches love horses.

And he's like, I'm free. Squeak, squeak. Squeak, squeak. Oh my god. So after Jojen suggests that they sleep, the moonlight pours in, and it paints the weirwood branches. Like, there's this fantastic imagery of, they're trying to catch the moon and drag it into the well. It really stood out to me on this reread because you can't fucking put the moon in the well, idiot. It's a metaphor. It's fine.

A simile, I should say. But you can't put the moon in the well. The nature of the moon in totality is like the moon is not an object that you can command. Right? Coming back to the idea of the knight owning the king and i don't know something about putting something so gigantic pivotal and important into a tiny well but then it escaping it reminds me of a lot of like a lot of creation mythos or like pandora's box we mentioned earlier right or like things escaping from behind a closed door and i love how it relates to kind of that background imagery

that's happening as the tension of this chapter kind of pumps up, right? Because Bran keeps hearing a scuffling noise when it's actually Sam. But he hears the rats all around him and all this noise and sensory that's just freaking you out. I don't know, you know, I'm reaching about Bran, the werewolf, trying to do like the impossible to change the fabric of reality. Yeah. There are some myths, and I don't think they have anything to do with this,

but there are some myths where the moon is reflected in the water and then it gets eaten gradually. And also, very interestingly, I have no idea why, but someone asked Ancora, can you eat the moon? And someone came like made a cheese and someone goes I don't think oh oh they meant actual literal moon dust I think because someone goes I don't think so the main problem

is erosion or I don't know is moon dust poisonous is another answer that has nothing to do with any of this moon dust poisoning holy shit there are there are I think myths where the moon's reflection right is in the water and can be consumed so very interesting bran prays to the old gods for a dreamless night but they make no answer he closes his eyes but

is awakened by a scuffling sound he thinks it it's trees and leaves rustling, but it's coming from inside, not outside, and it's getting louder. Someone is coming. It wasn't the sentinel, nor was it Mad Axe, and he wonders briefly if it's a thing came in the night. The apprentice boys all saw it, all nine said, but afterward, when they told their lord commander, every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad. And a hundred years later, when the thing had come again, the apprentice boys were seen champling along behind it, all in chains. That was only a story, though.

He was just carrying himself. There was no thing that comes in the night, Master Luwin had said so. So Bran thinks, if there were, it was gone, like dragons and giants. Ha. Ha ha ha ha. So funny. They're so gone. Yeah. But now, the sound, as mentioned, the sound is coming up the wall, coming up the well,

as well as a new sound, a thin whimpering sound like someone in pain and muffled breathing, but the loudest are the footsteps. He thinks about reaching Summer, but doesn't want to abandon his friends here on the physical plane even though he told them so about this awful horrid place he's too frightened to shout the fire's gone out everyone's asleep this is kind of similar to like

white attacks right feels like when john had a big head small paul for example with the john in the beginning hearing this description like again though makes me just feel so bad for sam i'm like oh god he went he had to do those stairs multiple times and we heard how long you know there's the echo of aurora's shout earlier like how long we can imagine how long those stairs are i know sam a real one so brand is afraid to be here at night for at the night for it right because it's full of ghosts and it makes me think a little bit about you know you're talking about people repressing their memories before and and it's different from ned or jenny i think ned was very consumed with his ghosts in many ways

that was part of his problem or jenny who loves to dance with her ghosts and can't leave the past behind and so you have this balance of of you know people who are being who are afraid to confront the past versus living too long in it and bran bran doesn't like to think of those ghosts right he's not thinking about Rob or Catelyn or Grey Wind he wants to leave this place you see a little bit of kind of uh and I mean

it's a kid thing too right obviously a lot of this is not just being absolutely traumatized but also being a child absolutely traumatized child and he remembers Sansa once telling him the demons of the dark can't touch him if he hides in his blanket. Aw, what a good sister. And thinks about doing that now.

That is his first thought. But he's a prince and almost a man grown, as Anne has said, almost 27 years old. And he drags himself to wake Meera, pressing his finger to his mouth. And she immediately wakes, hearing the noises and jumps intos himself to wake Mira, pressing his finger to his mouth and she immediately wakes hearing the noises and jumps into action to grab her weapon, slipping toward the well, quiet as a cat. As a child, he tries to repress, repress, repress. Like as Sansa recommended, that's Sansa's most ever ending.

Like, live in your dreams. Pretend reality doesn't exist. Bran, and so Bran does that. He's, by one of his parental figures,

his older sister, taught that. But, like, one of his impulse, as soon as he discovers that weird things are happening to him,

he's gonna try to see if he can, like, rewrite history. I just type his story. Again, back to what I was discussing earlier. Again, there was a very early on that scene

where he wants to go in the crypt to see if his dad is there because of his dreams. But in A Dance with Dragons, his first impulse as soon as he connects with the werewolf is to try to talk to his dad and Bloodraven's like oh no you can't, you can't change the past

but we know he's gonna do it Bran is the author also, like there's that he wants to change things and what can happen once he tries to do that are you gonna create worse demons by trying to erase like you know you're oh i'm afraid of that thing i'm gonna erase it but aren't you gonna create but potentially like something worse right by not embracing

your history and learning your history and knowing your history, it's bound to happen all over again. Right. By erasing it and shoving it away, you're causing the problem. You're creating the monster. Right. And Eliana brought this up last week, too. And we know there is a quote unquote somewhat canon moment coming in Bran's story for here. What's coming right after this for Hodor.

Right. Bran's story for here, what's coming right after this for Hodor, right? And while Bran is busy trying to rewrite his story, and we see him in the Weirwood in the next book, learning a little bit about the Starks through the Weirwood and through other people through the Weirwood. But as he sees these things, and he gets the desire to be able to rewrite his story and change his own history and history around him,

we see who it will affect. It will hurt others in the process. And I love the idea of blood raven telling him no you can't do this and brands the winds a winner arc being him going what the fuck yes i can and him doing it and then the consequences that follow that right there are going to be huge consequences to pay turns out you know he can't rewrite it because the ink is dry right if if Hodor's already like this, that means he has already done it. And it speaks to a little bit of like, there's a couple of things that makes me think of you were talking earlier about autonomy and Bran's story and how Jojen feeling that the future, like what he can see has kind of already sort of boxed them in and Bran and Meera wanting to fight desperately against that and Melisandre, anyone who sees the prophecies, feeling that they should have some sort of power, if not over their own lives, over at least what they can do. And I think that we can't rewrite the past, but there is a story that you can rewrite and it is what you do going forward. And I think that's why Jamie

plays such a big role in Bran's storyline. It's why he's repressed Jamie and why, you know, if they ever cross paths again, we see that Bran very well might show forgiveness to Theon and perhaps he might to Jamie, who is in a place where he is trying to rewrite his story, but he accepts the things that he's done in the past. When he writes down what happened to him in the white book, he's like, oh, I'm just going to tell it like it is. I was a big loser. He doesn't sugarcoat it.

And he's trying to rewrite his story in terms of who he becomes. And you can do that because otherwise, if you don't rewrite your story you let things happen to you which is what happens with ned which is what happens with tyrian right they let the things that are in their past continue to control them and again there's a balance to that too because you're saying you have to know your past to know what happens in the future right like daenerys is is as part of her repression if i look back I am lost she can't stay too far back there because it is deeply painful the things that have happened to her

he could write whatever he chose henceforth whatever he chose I think that's a really pivotal and important part especially for Jaime's arc coming from him throwing Bran out of a fucking window well he just eating Bran out of the window. And Bran too, he's not very much, you know, Jaime's at least living in his truth, right? Like, good for you, Jaime. Live your truth. Yeah, you are an asshole. Go you. But Bran is like,

no, I can change it. Right? In dance. So with feast and dance lining up, you have Jaime going through that awakening and Bran falling deeper into that darkness of it first. He's not ready to come out of that yet fascinating yeah because wanting to change the past and rewrite the stories like last last episode right we're told about what happened in the past with uh the tourney at harrenhal and brands like i don't think it should have ended like that right then and there he's showing a desire to rewrite these stories to how he thinks they

should add rewrite the past and that's a childish thing to want and that makes sense because he is a child it's it's it's a childish thing to want to do that and it's a very human thing to want to to want things to have gone differently but at the same time i think part of adulthood is learning to accept this thing happened and here's what i can do moving forward well said also in a yes i agree with you but also in a meta sense brian is a character in the story and he didn't do anything george make things happen to him that That's true. George is going to rewrite his story. I'm not red killing Bran,

but there's some... It's also not Bran's fault, right? Because it's George's fault, is what Anne's saying, that Bran's perfect. No, I'm absolutely not saying that. George did rewrite the story. We know George keeps throwing shit out and rewriting it.

George. That's also true. That is very true. But Bran is very flawed. I love my flawed babies so much. That's my son. I know my son is so flawed. I mean, I know he's a kid.

But he's, you know. Kids are messed up. Being a kid was hard because kids are messed up. That's what happens when this is your family now. Sometimes a family really is the reeds in Hodor, you know? And Summer. And a dog. What the fuck? This is dog erasure.

Two homeschool kids and a dog. And a man. Now you're erasing Hodor. God. Chloe, come on. God! Better than Bran. He's gonna straight up wish he did.

Fucker. Little shit. He's grounded. You know what? Bran's gonna be grounded in the winds of winter. So you're saying he's not gonna fly. I'm saying that Anne and I are gonna have to discipline our son, probably. And it's gonna be a crazy thing.

Poor Bran. He's fired. Bran was watching her all the while, and even he could barely see the faint sheen of her spear. I can't let her fight the thing alone, he thought. Summer was far away, but he slipped his skin and searched for Hodor. It was not like sliding into Summer. That was so easy now that Bran hardly thought about it. This was harder, like trying to pull a left boot on your right foot.

It fit all wrong, and the boot was scared too. The boot didn't know what was happening. The boot was pushing the foot away. He tasted vomit in the back of Hodor's throat, and that was almost enough to make him flee. Instead, he squirmed and shoved, sat up, gathered his legs under him, his huge, strong legs, and rose. I'm standing. Confession time. First time reader, and because I'm in love with Bran, I'm reading a kid's POV. Like, before I read Varamyr, I did not realize the horror of the situation. And I think, you know, Georgie's kind of genius doing that.

Like, no, I cannot read that chapter without, like, feeling the horror in my throat. But first read? Like, I did not, because I see through his eyes, I'm in his brain. And I think that makes it so complicated and interesting. The horror, the deep horror did not strike me until I see through Baramir's eye first, and then I go back to the chapter. And I think it's very problematic, but also very interesting. It's well done in that way. I think it's supposed to make you feel that way at first. Like it's supposed to have that kid kind of vibe of like, yo, this is so cool.

He's skin changing. Oh man, he can do this. Like, you know, think about like transformers, right? Literally transformers. Like that's the kind of thing like our anamorphs as a kid, you think it's so cool, but then you realize what it means. Absolutely. It's all what you've said here. And I kind of wonder, you know, the things that will motivate him to do this more, right? and we see part of it in dance but also here he feels like he has to to help or shield or protect mira and so he feels like that gives him an excuse to to slip into hodor's skin at that time it's like well couldn't you asked but at the same time it as you said right like that's that's the point the horror that's one thing that's really problematic in the book is that like the lack of victims pov but at the same time it's like it's supposed to get us to

practice our empathy because we see a lot of things through the eyes of the perpetrators i mean i think i think that's the thing right like bran is a perpetrator but he is also a victim right and it's it's that even with cersei right like cersei she doesrator, but he is also a victim, right? And it's that even with Cersei, right? Like Cersei, she does bad things, but she's also been harmed. It's the idea that just because you have been harmed or a victim doesn't mean that you can't also hurt someone else or wield your power against someone else. Definitely.

And I think that's what makes it interesting. Because yes, you have to exercise your empathy and you have to feel your empathy and you have to feel that's what stuff is you're watching something monstrous through the eyes of the person who's doing the monstrous things that everyone's being the hero their own story if you of them are gonna be like yo I'm doing a horrible thing I'm so proud of myself no No, that's not the human mind. Yeah. The last thing I'll contribute to it too, is there's something about his relationship with

Mira. And I know as we get into dance, there's more, right? He starts to think about, you know, her a little differently and think about even possibly what it would feel like to skin change into her and what her emotions and feelings would be compared to hodor not normal thoughts right for your nine-year-old son to have again really should have done some better parenting on my part i'm sorry as far as mira goes too there's something interesting about his story with her of like he wants to love her wants to be with her in a way in a very child first love kind of way and i think that being the driver in this moment that he's like oh no mira can't fight alone i have to help and he immediately

tries to reach out to hodor again i think mira is a great weakness for him in a way and maybe something that he will have to give up later on in the story right like of loving her in that manner or that feeling for her for her safety even oh one percent that's the thing with great powers come great responsibilities but yeah the thing is that he does not realize he has great powers and no one explained the responsibilities to him he's all he has like ned did his best but there was never he died yeah yeah he died early he died he died and then brian was the baby one of the babies. Because what he said, like, actually, I would tend to disagree to the first part of your statement, Chloe. I think it's a very natural thing for a nine year old to think for a kid to think, what would it be like to be in that, like, literally that person's skin in that person's brain except that kids would fantasize about that no kid has the freaking power to literally skin change it's natural like you know it's like that

mirror phase for little kids you know like understand yeah that's exactly like child psychology except that they do not have supernatural power to do it and that's where it's dangerous because he has no idea of the boundaries of his power. It's like, he does a thing, it happens. Oh my God, that's so traumatizing, you know, also. Imagine if like you're a child and any of your fantasy just became reality. It's almost kind of a good thing too,

like to want to imagine what other people feel and their perspective, but it's just the horror, it's turned on its head right as george likes to do but like that's true i do sometimes wonder even now into adulthood i'm like what would it be like to be this person to feel and think the things that they feel and but not in a literal sense because thankfully i do not have great power and great responsibility in that way yeah it's a step too far right it takes it one step too far maybe another step and then

another step and then another step because he's because wait there's someone else taking another step here soon too yeah there's a lot of other steps being taken but this is total body horror right like this one's great because he sees himself on the floor and he grabs hodor's long sword i mean this is very like had to have felt bulky for the first time and very weird being in this skin in this manner again but like for longer and with more cognition so suddenly from the well comes the source of the noise another person taking another step, another step, a whale in a black shape heaves itself toward the moonlight, and it's Sam Tarly. Bran finds himself on the floor, kicked out of Hodor's body, Hodor's shouting, just like

he had at the lake when the lightning was flashing, but the shape is screaming too. So, Meera is standing over him with her spear, demanding to know who he is. And Sam Tarly is sobbing. He's like, I've been stabbed. He's so dramatic. Flailing around. Yeah, absolutely. Flailing in Mira's net while Hodor shouts, Hodor, Hodor, Hodor, a crazy scene.

I know. It's Sam's appearance. And like, again, like we were like, oh, Sam! His appearance and all the chaos, it's like the stark contrast of that comedic relief at that moment right after the abuse scene

is also like, it's hard on first read to wrap your head around. Yeah, it's not something that you think about the horror of it till after you come back around to it, after you've seen, like, what Bran's been doing with Hodor, but yeah, it is nice. I'm glad Sam is

here, because we love Sam. Oh, we love Sam. That's it. I'm just glad he's here. It's a good thing that happens in the Night Fort. We have a line. Then there was light, and bran saw the pale thin-faced girl by the lip of the well all bundled in furs and skins beneath an enormous black cloak

trying to shush the screaming baby in her arms going back to your be our guest right episode there i love that the lip of the well right personifying more parts of this castle turning it into a human part a black brother of the night's watch stands before them and calls himself a crow but not that crow only sam samuel tarly a steward that took care of the ravens gilly introduces herself as well and the baby stops crying she says they come from Craster's keep, and they're puzzled and ask if they're the one that Coldhands told them to find. It's funny. Gilly is the voice of reason.

She's the only one who's making sense right now. She's just like, there's a baby. We're clearly not going to attack you. Baby. Everyone's yelling, Gidley's like that's who we are that's my name that's his name that's why we're here who are you

we're good now we all good not that anyone knows who Craster is they're like uh okay he knows the sentinels but he doesn't know Craster god Mira tells him to lift his romp so she can get her net back Oh, he knows the sentinels, but he doesn't know Craster? God.

Mira tells him to lift his romp so she can get her net back. She's like, stop breaking my net. Stranger and Jojen begins to question how they got through the wall. Sam explains that there is a gate, the Black Gate, hidden, apparently only able to be found and used by a Sporn brother. At least that's what cold hand said which is also which is also not his real name gilly and sam just call him that also he brought him here on his elk and speaking of like comedic moments this was hilarious in the book they're like wait an elk an elk an elk hodor is apparently how the whole scene goes this is hodor's most uh

spoken this is the one that has the most hodor in it the most spoken hodor lines yeah brand's like wait does that guy have antlers and he's like the green men would ride on elks and old man used to say but cold hands just wears black also he's super pale but he's like as pale as a white but also he's not a white and he had a further mission to complete accompanying brand and his team i love cold hands showing up and i love that kind of mystery it makes me think a little more to what ann said about the children being in the night fort too now you have a green man maybe he's not really one of the green men but you could have had a green man riding on through interesting and there's also something here kind of about how an oath is important right the

night's watch oath turns out to be very important to this chapter for them to gain passage a vow a spoken vow that has proven to be so powerful to open up this gate that won't open for anyone else that hasn't taken that oath. And then of course, we have something else very important, which is oath breaking, which it turns out is the theme of this end of the book, right? When it comes to Robin the Freys, who all break various oaths to one another. There's something something kind of serious about this gate only opening for that important pledge from the Night's Watchmen. It comes back to what we were kind of talking about earlier

with Jon's vows and whether they excuse him or not and the vows being more than just the vows, being more important than life and death, being something more ancient, maybe even some sort of spell themselves. That's our character arc here at Girls Gone Canon. Us being like, I mean, yeah, the Frays were bad for what they did maybe even some sort of spell themselves that's our character arc here at girls gone canon us

being like i mean yeah the phrase were bad for what they did and for breaking guests right but us also being like rob you took a sacred vow and you were really wrong for that you were really wrong for breaking that yeah you shouldn't have followed your dick on that one the phrase gave up so much that's that's us now i mean he was grieving he was grieving you know if we're gonna forgive bran for his time grieving, Rob the boy was also grieving. Hit it and quit it. Hit it and quit it. Hit it and quit life, baby.

Anne, tell us your cold hand theory, because I feel like you have something good on this. I like metal theories. So it's a theory I'm pulling out of my ass. I have no proof. I have no quote I think cold hand is a white I mean night watch

man who died a while ago and that is skin change is inhabited by the spirit of future Bran that Bran is guiding himself through Coldhand

past Bran future Bran is guiding past Bran yeah backtracking to fill the holes so that Bran completes his own mission yeah yeah I mean I know there are weird like time loop

theories but I don't think George would be. That's so interesting. I never thought about this. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if what you're saying is true because, you know, some of I think George's inspirations like Robert Heinlein and stuff play with ideas of that of people looking different than meeting their their past selves and helping them and interacting with them that's gonna be wild if that's true it's like the reveal on that's gonna be crazy it's some futurama shit well if it is true it makes you think about how there's that three-fold reveal structure he likes to do right so you have hodor you have cold hands and then something else maybe that the the why do you think I came all this way moment of the story one could say.

Leave me alone. Okay, I will. Interesting. Yeah. No, I think I think there's there's a lot of validity to what you said. Yeah. And that's that's a good one. I got to think about that some more.

You gave me a big something to think on. Thank you. I'm gonna send you a short story, Chloe, and you'll see what I'm saying about what Anne is saying. It's called Robert Heinlein's short story, All You Zombies. So Sam turns to Jojen, telling him they should go, asking if they have warmer clothes and that they're definitely not prepared for the cold beyond the wall nor at the Black Gate. not prepared for the cold beyond the wall nor at the black gate cold hands hadn't been able to come through the wall because the wall was magic woven with old spells that stopped him from passing we have a line of beyond the gates the monsters live and the giants and the ghouls he remembered old nan saying but they cannot pass so long as the walls stand strong so go to sleep my little

brand that one of you should have said this my my baby boy. You needn't fear. There are no monsters here. Question mark, question mark, question mark. perfect and old nan as like the accidental narrator in this entire chapter is really great to me right because she's the one that gave him all these stories so all of these stories are coming from her you could almost split it up in your head and imagine her telling each story while this is happening in the foreground oh yes really neat jojen puts together that bran is who sam is looking for nicely done jojen, Jojen. Very apt. The one. And Sam pieces together, wait, Bran is Jon's brother, the one who fell. Jojen insists, no, no, no, no, no, that guy died.

And Bran begs Sam, please don't tell anyone. He promises that he can keep a secret. Gilly, too. Sam tells them, Jon was his brother, too, but he never came back from scouting the Frost Fangs. Bran's able to at least give him good news,

but I love, I don't know. I love that. I love that Sam is like, John was my brother too. And I'm like, he was, he's alive.

I mean, I don't know why I'm feeling. No, for now. He's actually dead, but. Oh no, Chloe.

Oh, I mean, he is right now. He's been dead for a very long time and we've been discussing how long it's been 11 to 12 years but he's not really dead plus I don't like Jon Snow right now I'm feeling for Sam I'm not feeling for Jon but yeah like I mean it's not even a question. Sam loves Jon more than Bran loves Jon. It's clear, like, the amount of time when... Well, I mean, maybe.

No, it's... Maybe, yeah. We can debate that, but... I agree with that. This is a Game of Thrones erasure, but okay, sure. Book one erasure? Book one Bran? He loves Jon.

Like, Arya adores Jon. Robb is really close to Jon because of their age. I'm not saying... Bran is not Sansa with mixed feelings about Jon. He likes Jon, but Sam adores Jon. So I'm saying Sam loves Jon more than

Bran loves Jon. Sam pulled a Shonda Rhimes scandal for Jon. That's true. That's love. That's true. Bran says good news, John's alive. Bad news, we saw him with Free Folk through Summer. And abruptly enters the room

proving to Sam that Bran is who he says he is. And Bran makes up his mind. He's like, alright, we're gonna go with Sam. Gilly can just, I guess, stay here by the fire. And she looks around the night fort and wonders, never knowing that a castle would be so big. And

Bran wonders what she'll think if she ever sees Winterfell. This is, you know, pretty fucked up because just moments before in the end of Jon's chapter, because I'm feeling violent today, you have Ygritte dying, asking if this is a proper castle, not just a tower. And he said that she'd see a hundred castles.

He promised her. Oh, you fucking liar. God. Gilly does see quite a few castles. Also, she doesn't grow up with these stories, right? Which is interesting. She looks at the Nightfort with wonder as this magical place that is promised safety for her and her son. Because she doesn't have all these preconceptions about it

that Bran brings to it she's already lived in one of the worst places that is true she's very brave that is true she's like could it be worse than crasters she's like I've literally seen the others also yeah so it's interesting because those stories are there to protect the self of the wall from whatever lies beyond the wall if you're're beyond the wall, you're already in deep shit. So they're really meant to protect you from whatever is beyond the wall. That's the purpose of the story. Yeah. By the time they're ready to go, Gilly sat nursing her babe by the fire.

You'll come back for me, she said to Sam. As soon as I can, he promised. Then we'll go somewhere warm. When he heard that, part of Bram wondered what he was doing. Will I ever go someplace warm again? I don't know. Rip, you know, Gilly and Sam do go someplace warm. And when they do, Eamon dies because of it. And also Gilly loses her baby because of that too when they go someplace warm. Wow, you're violent today too. Maybe that baby will go someplace even warmer like Melisandre's fires.

Oh no! Ma'am! Ma'am! Ma'am! Ma'am! I need you to step off the podcast, ma'am. I'm gonna need you to step off the podcast and show me some license and registration.

What the fuck? Jesus. That's true, though. The cold does preserve, so I think maybe you're, what you said earlier, Eliana, of, you know, the couple truths and a lie thing going on, right? Of, like, yes, we're in a very horrible, horrifying place, but some good things are

happening, and, like, yes, it's cold, and there's bad things like zombies, but the cold still does preserve, as we see for poor Eamon and as far as Bran is concerned he's gonna go in a place beyond time and place so he can go literally wherever he wants he can go probably I mean I don't know if the magic of the children of the forest touches the fires of Valyria, but possibly... He might get to see them. And we know the weirdness, yeah, we know the weirdness in a way extends to Essos.

Yeah, one day I think that's going to come back into play for sure. Just like that vision in Game of Thrones, right? into play for sure. Just like that vision in Game of Thrones, right? When he looks from all the way to the land of winter but also sees a shy by the shadow and sees all these other places. Maybe we'll get a deeper exploration from some of the warmer

ones from Bran. That will be our only possible POV. Yeah. True, true. Sam reluctantly leads the way and the sound of water begins to grow louder. He tells them their eyes will adjust, keep a hand on the wall and the sound of water begins to grow louder he tells them their eyes will adjust keep a hand on the wall and before we head down to the well down to the gate eliana yeah again i just wanted i i just feel like sam deserves props like it sounded like it was really difficult for him to

come up just now all right he was like heaving and they were like oh my god what is that horrible sound it's sam coming up the steps and so for him to take them all all the way back down there going downstairs is not great on your knees either all right all the way down and then he has to come all the way back and come all the way back up i'm just saying that is very underappreciated of sam to have done yeah it's you know what during this very podcast that we've recorded, I've gone up and down my stairs twice, and it was not fun, and I couldn't breathe. You have a lot of stairs. And Sam probably has more. Yeah.

And he probably has more. Mm-hmm. And not very comfortable stairs. No. Not that mine are comfortable either. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Very underappreciated. Yeah, actually, your stairs are treacherous. Literally. Literally treacherous. I have broken my body against these. They have threatened treacherous. Literally. Literally treacherous. I have broken my body against these. They have threatened Chloe's life. They have threatened the very podcast.

Your cats love them, though. Yeah, those fuckers love the stairs. They have no issues with the stairs. Sometimes, in the very dark, I will, like, see Jaehaerys, my cat, run all the way down them. Super fast and all the way up super fast. Like, lightning speed. And just zoom around them. Like, what's wrong with you? You're insane.

Hodor. Hodor whispered. Hodor, Hodor, Hodor, Hodor. The well was spring back. The water sounds were close, but when Bran peered down, he saw only blackness. A turn or two later, Sam stopped suddenly. He was a quarter of the way around the well from Bran and Hodor and six feet farther down, yet Bran could barely see him.

He could see the door, though. The Black Gate, Sam called it. But it wasn't black at all. It was white weirwood, and there was a face on it. A glow came from the wood, like milk, and moonlight so faint it scarcely seemed to touch anything beyond the door itself, and even Sam standing right before it. The face was old and pale, wrinkled and shrunken. It looks dead. Its mouth was closed and its eyes, its cheeks were sunken, its brow withered, its chin sagging. If a man could live for a thousand years and never die, but just grow older,

and years and never die, but just grow older, his face might come to look like that. The door opened its eyes. They were white too and blind. Who are you? The door asked, and the whale whispered, I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. Then pass, the door said. Its lips opened wider and wider and wider still until nothing at all remained but a great gaping mouth and a ring of wrinkles. Sam stepped aside and waved Jojen through ahead of him.

Summer followed, sniffing as he went, and then it was Bran's turn. Hodor ducked, but not low enough. The door's upper lip brushed softly against the top of Bran's head, and a drop of water fell on him and ran slowly down his nose. It was strangely warm and salty as a tear. Gross. Disgusting. It's really... It's kind of gross, yeah.

It's weird and interesting because, like, the weirwood is seeped into the place, right? Its roots are throughout it. And this door seems to be made of weirwood. Again, coming back to the house of black and white in the next book, it reminds me a lot of that half of the door, the weirwood bone part of the door, that language of a thousand years and never die. I never thought about it that way, but I'm like, Bloodraven, have you been controlling this gate?

And does that mean that this gate really is that portal to another world? In fantasy terms, this is like the moment you pass to the next world. And in the hero's journey, this is crossing that first threshold to go seek your supernatural aid to Bloodraven, to all of the magic. And yeah, there's something really poetic about the night's watch right and taking those vows in front of the heart tree for sam and john even if they didn't like sam didn't necessarily believe in those gods but he said no you're right i'll come with you why not you know these gods could be as good as any of the other ones and the protection that the old gods have for the watch and for the spells put on this door. I know some think the tear could be just, you know, it could just be some sort of saliva. It could be blood.

People have thought about, which I don't know if it is. I've tasted blood. It doesn't taste like that. I've stressed this many times throughout the podcast. Yeah, I hate the taste of blood. Yeah, it's coppery. This is described as salty, like saline, right? Or like a tear.

And maybe this is silly, but I started thinking about, you know, like salt circles and the protection of salt and using salt to protect. And how it comes from the belief that spirits have a fascination with counting. So if you use salt, rice, or beads, or powers, it means the demon or fae, like you brought up some of that commonwealth earlier, Eliana with the fae, it will stop them, make them count and follow the trail away from the home. So it's interesting that this could be a tear full of salt leaking down. Maybe that salt is magical and protective, right? A magic circle of demons would only follow around the edge infinitely. You've probably seen Supernatural or other movies, or maybe you are into some of these kind of practices or into some of the pagan kind of traditions.

But I found that very interesting. It's why incantation bowls were designed the way they kind of were, to have salt be able to protect, to preserve, if you will. And then I think it's interesting that you call it a blessing right and if it's on his head anointing him almost like a baptism but also like if its upper lip touches him like a kiss a kiss of protection a kiss of life but also bless him with salt or relores kiss gross it is gross i think it's so interesting that the rainforest cafe mouth is like the portal because so we have in this chapter a reminder that summer regained his strength by feasting

on the leftover like free folk bodies right and we're told that amongst the taboo, I think that that is one of the taboo. You should not eat human flesh while skin changed. And Bran isn't skin changed, I think, at that time when Summer is eating the bodies. But at the same time, cannibalism in and of itself is a taboo. For their culture, for many cultures in the real world, there are multiple reasons. We've discussed it before, prions, diseases.

But Bran breaks a lot of these taboos like just just skin changing hodor in and of itself that's breaking one of the taboo of skin changing and it comes back to this idea of consumption and consuming flesh and like what becomes a part of you and skin changing is about that right as you become very literally one another in that way and so i think there's something that speaks to all of that as the gate's mouth consumes you as you go through it from one side to the other that passage it plays together with the door asking who you are right the vows and sam answers of who he is it's all like in this language of metaphor but i am the horn i am the shield and to an extent though it is kind of a loss of identity he doesn't answer i am samuel tarly but who being a deterrent you

can't answer with your name aria's story is a lot about that about losing who she is and maybe the others are part about that too as you act and take the bodies of several people right and being all those people kind of like you know the grishka or or again a skin changer taking the bodies of the living are you just yourself or are you also the people whose lives you literally touch whose lives you consume sacrifice trading part of yourself for magic right or giving part of yourself you probably won't ever be able to gain back in order to obtain something for equivalent exchange right like he has to give something of himself as he leaves this world again losing your name very interesting i love that you

compare it to the grishka yeah losing your name no name. No one, as you said with Arya. I mean, she does get magic out of that. That is true. And then the journey back to find yourself again and find your name and also kind of what Anne was saying with rewriting his own story, making your name again, creating your name, right?

Think of all those different, Bran the Builder, Brandon the Shipburner, Brandon the Shipwright, all these names. What Brandon will he become? That's in his control and it's going to be for him to find out over the next two books when we get them someday. All those taboos that we are told about and that Brand transgresses. me think in a way of the Storks of Winterfell who managed to rule over all the north and you know we're told that from the world book and we don't really know how you know we're never really told how and it seems like they conquered those families who are all have something like

deeply magical in nature and like should on paper like be stronger again like the barrow kings there's the war kings i forgot exactly the skin changer and then the last one the boltons so they're named the boltons but it's the one who flayed their enemies they seem to be tied maybe to the practice of putting the entrail and the corpse on the maybe possibly on the werewolves for sacrifice possibly tied to that so it's like the and i know it's been it's way before those practices disappeared from the north because the the the stars have ruled over the north for a very long time but it it's like, the more the North the Starks have ruled, the more of that

barbaric, I'm sorry to use that term, but also very primal culture of the North has been abandoned. And then those things became taboos and codified as such. And that's great, because coming back to

some of Eliana's thoughts which she thinks about cannibalism a lot eliana i think there there's something interesting about you know sacrifice and some of those inherent kind of taboo things were like you're saying very much once part of the north in a time too where these magical spells were probably being cast that was something much more tolerated in the north of their culture and something that was not looked down upon as much it's chiles its cagos yeah a different time it depends because you know guest right is still very is still very important to the first men right the rat cook yes and and the cannibalism that That's probably a story from first men culture.

Incest is something that is also taboo in Westeros that I think that probably the first men hold very much as well, which is why you steal someone from another tribe that prevents like the threat of incest coming up. Right. And that's something that I think might have existed in other cultures as well. So some of those like were there. coming up right and that's something that i think uh might have existed in other cultures as well so some of those like were there but as you said and right as they become a much more formalized culture kind of embrace more of some of the andalosy way of doing things like it becomes a

bigger part of the culture and then also like it's interesting because i feel like the stigma of being a skin changer is bigger amongst the first men and the free folk as opposed to those south of the wall. But part of that is because they don't see very many skin changers because there's not as many of them. But there's kind of more of a revulsion towards them amongst the free folk. So I thought that was interesting. They are not looked at as normal. Yeah. They're looked at as kind of, I mean, some of them are

respected and revered, but monsters. Yeah, they're looked at as monsters. But also a danger. They're a real danger because they exist. I mean, they do seem pretty dangerous when you look at people like Varamyr. Some of them are like chill, normal people, like Oral. Right? What? He

was a pretty chill, dude who was really just looking out for egret too yeah he was kind of right to hate john snow sorry john but i mean you were kind of you know i mean he was kind of right to distrust him yeah he was not wrong not wrong not to disparage someone that i've come to love it took a long time but you know john snow but yeah he was kind of being a little shed you know infiltrating lying about his motives yeah half lying half of it was a lie but needless to say and then they have their own taboo within their society too because they have a little subculture there's something in crusader kings in the game of thrones mod that

i really like about this to close out my thoughts on the episode uh that i really like is like there are ranks and guilds so when you have a northern lord if you kind of breed in the warg trade or the skin changer trait there is a skin changer guild and you can kind of join that and there are ranks so interesting thinking about you know bran. Bran and Jojen are somewhat tangentially connected. They don't have the same powers. Bran obviously has a lot more power that he is not yet harnessed fully. And Jojen has kind of come to harness what power he has and understanding. But coming back to Bran and Jojen's relationship,

like Jojen is not alpha to Bran. They're on a little bit of a different plane, but they're in the same world of having these powers right so some of that probably comes into play in a very primal naturistic way of what you can see how you can see it and what other people can see and those kind of ranks between skin changers it's interesting to think about a whole world of its own well that's it y'all we reached the end of the world that's the whole world on its own we reached the end of the world and then we crossed it and like lord knows who we are now where we are now

it's winter it is actually winter it is and that was the end of storm of swords it's gonna get even more wintry for us from here as we cross over to the the land of of winter and soon maybe land of always winter as we go to the heart of it eventually but not yet quite the land of winter. And soon maybe land of always winter as we go to the heart of it eventually. But not yet quite the winds of winter. Definitely not quite yet. And thank you so much for joining us. I know we took up a big portion of your time today, but I was so happy to get your thoughts on Bran.

I've always appreciated listening to you over at the old Hypeswatch episodes and Clash of Queens, of course. So thank you for taking time to come hang out with us. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I was going to say, where can people find you?

But now you've kind of like, no one, you don't want to be found. I can't. She took her name out. She erased her name from history. She's like Bloodraven. Or are you like the Children of the Forest? Interesting. Interesting.

She lives beneath the night. Yeah, I live beneath, exactly. I mean, not Chloe. I live beneath the land. I'm everywhere. I'm beneath your, yeah. I'm beneath your feet right now.

Damn, blood-raven. Oh, my god. Shit. She could be beneath your feet, actually. She's in the apartment below. You never know. Well, we will link, maybe I'll link to the brand discussions from Hypes Watch for good time's sake for you, but we hope to have you back when Winds of Winter is published. We will for sure bring you back for a Sam, for sure.

There are definitely going to be Sam chapters. for a Sam for sure. There are definitely going to be Sam chapters. Well, if you all want to keep up with us or with future episodes, as we've said, we have quite a few projects going on. You can find us on social media at twitter.com slash girlsgonecanon.

That's C-A-N-O-N. Or perhaps you have thoughts that you would like us to ponder. You can send us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. And make sure that you would like us to ponder, you can send us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. And make sure that you are subscribed on your favorite podcast platform. If you

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above get bonus episodes like a song for Leah or The Mystery Night this February. Yeah, and patrons in the Thunder tier and above that's 10 and up will get lifetime access to our private Discord server as well as access to events that happen monthly like our brunch slash happy hour taking place February 19th 1-3pm ET this month in the voice chat, or our weekly His Dark Materials series three episode discussions, three watch, that's going on from our patrons who are hosting it, and that's happening on Saturdays at 1 p.m. ET as well. That'll be going on probably till the front of March, so come having watched and come have fun. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana.

Thank you again to this week's other other host. But not that other. Anne. Oh my god. And the secret fourth host. A secret fourth thing. The secret fourth thing. They're everywhere.

A thousand Anne's in one. A thousand Anne's in one. A thousand ands in one. Oh my gosh. What the fuck? Goodbye. Bye.