Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 187 — AFFC The Reaver

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

For the first time ever, we visit the Reach. But the real reach is trying to convince the Ironborn to sail to Essos. Victarion feels helpless as Euron's plans advance until the last second, where he decides to seize the prize.   ---   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And and fire episode 187 a feast for crows the reaver i am one of your hosts chloe and i am another one of your hosts eliana we're in a different place actually we're in a place we have never been before yeah for so few chapters victorian gets around yeah he actually really does he travels that globe he is a regular globetrotter. It's very, very much like the speed of things in a Game of Thrones. That's a good point, actually, for how the Ironborn and Dorne chapters kind of can get some shit. This one's fast paced.

This is a fast paced POV. In fact, so much that after this chapter, we're basically halfway done with Victarion. Yep. Wow. Yep. Hard hardly any time to foreshadow the next one yeah he only has four chapters which i thought were three but turns out they're four so he's lucky he's getting that from eliana honestly yeah he really is if he had been earlier in the pov order you know he would have maybe gotten fewer fewer chapters yeah

actually once upon a time we thought, oh yeah, I guess we're doing, what, two Victorian episodes back when we used to double up. Honestly, it's unfair that he gets, like, one episode per chapter and what, Sansa and Theon only got one episode for two chapters. We really need

to redo those. And that's why Sansa and Theon are still the next POV. No no i'm just kidding thanks for listening in today i'm uh i'm finding these chapters maybe not titillating necessarily but i'm still finding them intriguing on this reread especially reading them in this order getting really into victorian's head his mind palace. Yes, I guess it is his mind palace, his mind castle. Mind ship, his mind ship, if you will. Yeah, his mind ship, his mind victory.

Yeah. Before we jump into today's chapter, today's mind palace, let's do our housekeeping. First up, Patreon episode this month for our patrons in the stranger tier and above is going to be meat house man by george rr martin meat house man i just read it i had not read it before eliana had read it you may know that about eliana she's always reading it and yeah it was kind of a fucked up little story. Fucked up little tale. Highly recommend it. Yeah, it's, I think, one of his most infamous works. And it ties in with a lot of stuff that we've been discussing in these slew of chapters. I might even make a reference to it today, Eliana.

Today. Wow. Wow. Wow. Changed woman. Changed meathouse woman. Meathouse woman. Well, next month, meathouse woman. Wow. Changed woman. Changed meathouse woman. Well, next month, meathouse woman. I just want equality for all of our meathouse genders, honestly. Next month, we will be covering on Patreon for those special Patreon bonus episodes. I believe we're gonna dive in. It's been a really long time since we've done one of these, but we're gonna do a little discussion on what we know on victorian one in the winds of winter yes you know i lied you know there are in fact five

victorian chapters tech kinda sorta and i it'll be my first time ever reading that winds victorian chapter in that information so oh oh wow okay well i look forward to this i forgot that you still haven't read a couple of them yeah because again i had been saving myself for wins except for of course a couple of them one of which again i like to boast i was there because i was when it came out. But yeah, that was really dumb. Every day. To save myself for wins. But it's fun now. Every day Eliana gets farther from God.

See, it's fun now. It's fun that we have that, like, I've decided I would just read it when we get to them for these because now it's part of this little activity that we have called Girls Gone Canon. Yeah. And you're just edging. You're just edging your way to the Winds of Winter. Aren't we all? All the time. I have missed our Winds of Winter chats.

Excited to return to it. We have been vaguely spoiling a little bit of the Forsaken from the Winds of Winter in this chapter and the last chapter. I'm sure you might hear little slips of it. We just can't be helped. It's hard to care about Victarion. winner in this chapter and the last chapter i'm sure you might hear little slips of it we just can't be helped it's hard to care about victorian without those chapters or anything that happens in this chapter yeah i think that the forsaken kind of gives weight to i mean what the ironborn plot right it's hard to discuss it now without it because you know and it's leading

up to that and i kind of wonder if that was one of the chapters likely that was supposed to be in dance and then was moved it's a thick one too it's a little wild it would have been i think it really works in the long run though as a reveal in the winds of winter like i see it's moreover that the winds of winter should have been out sooner for that to ride better maybe but it's meant to be read as one i feel like right like this series together as one piece is brilliant and that everything and we're not going to talk about this chapter right this moment but when the time comes sometime in the future someday you can check out our Forsaken episode on Patreon until then highly

recommend poor Quentin's Forsaken essays right he has written many Euron Greyjoy essays he's done a great job with them and sometimes I'm like do we even have to do the Forsaken can't you go listen to Nauticast's episode but we will bring something different I'm sure to the table if not

a handful of poor quentin quotes and again i was there so at the very least you'll hear me say that at least three times in that episode you will get that well i was actually the one who broke who first broke a lot of what was in the forsaken but speaking about the future let's talk about the future of our victorian episodes because we have the state of the union teasing we've been teasing that we have a very exciting guest and it is in fact a very exciting guest i'm kind of excited it's one of our buddies it's one of our friends it's the only guy in the pun business that could stand a chance against eliana you know like he's the person I trust with puns and jokes and with Westeros, so to speak.

And I have to reiterate, I can't even count right now out loud. Like I can't name out loud how many episodes both of us have been hanging out with them for. Right. We've been on their live streams a lot, hanging out with the team over there. But Aziz from History of westeros will be joining us for the iron suitor i am so excited he had to have this chapter when we asked him we actually forged this future for him we a long time ago we said aziz has to come on for victorian no no we asked him what he wanted and he said victorian so this was his choice uh i think he might have given another one but he also definitely said victorian also and we were like okay and we're like we never told

him what it was gonna be but here we are it's now it's funny because a lot of the beginning of girls gone canon was that was us going around to our friends going we can't tell you when this is gonna happen but we just want tell you when this is gonna happen but we just want you to know something's gonna happen for you with whatever character you tell us but you gotta tell us now we gotta get it on the ground floor be an investor we're a little like george you know we're just like we don't it's gonna happen eventually we just don't know when it could be it could be any time we're just so much like George like that. Oh my god, so random. Under your chair, look under your chair.

Yeah, I'm excited to have Aziz on. He's great with the histories and great with some of the action and the battle. And I think he will bring an element of flair to the cast that maybe we don't necessarily always have. I'm excited to hear Aziz's take and like why he chose Victarion. I want someone to really... I think we are diving deep into these Victarion chapters. Maybe not as deep as if

we had worn a suit of armor and really just fucking drowned ourselves in it. But I think that he's going to bring us a good perspective on Victarion that I'm excited to hear. I mean, I just like Aziz's thoughts. I don't like playing trivia, ass-off trivia with him because

I will never win. You just cannot win against Aziz. It's not fair. Hey, you know what? It's hard. If you go to an ass-off thing and there's an ass-off trivia, you walk into a room, sometimes that's intimidating. I don't play that shit. I don't do that shit. It's not for me.

I just can't win against disease he's a smart smart cookie smart cookie well we're hyped to have him on i would also like to say maybe i wonder if aziz has been preparing for this as maybe some of you know he does keep aquariums so like he's been really sharing some more about his aquarium adventures recently and i wonder if, is he getting in the mindset? The TramCon mindset. You're going to have to ask him next week. He posted a little shrimp, a tiny shrimp.

It's so cute. It's foreshadowing. It's foreshadowing for his entrance to the GGC cinematic universe. The GGC, the GGCCUccu wow why was that so hard ggccu you're 10 you're a 10 year old lad oh i was thinking like the communist party oh better still kind of a 10-year-old little lad, you know. Anyway. Spring. Springy. Well, that will be the first episode of the month next month, for those of you listening live,

as history is being made with the Victarian episodes. That'll be next month, front of the month. April. Until then, there will be an episode the last week of March, on March 31st coming out. Not of A Song of Ice and Fire, though. This will be of a different series. Yes, this one will be Sailor Moon Crystal Season 1.

Crystal, the new rebooted anime. Because, again, there were too many episodes in Season 1 of the original anime which we will reference from time to time but yes we are leading up to the release of sailor moon cosmos in july which is kind of like the last season or so of sailor moon crystal so yeah if you are looking to catch up with sailor moon crystal you want to watch along if you haven't watched before it's a great jumping point it condenses a lot of the 1990s anime down into kind of a digestible format right if you're looking to binge it out and get into it and there's some great perks of it there's a couple cons that we'll probably go into when we talk about season one though they improved by season three i'd say i'm feeling so far on my rewatch but if you you're in the States, that's on Netflix.

I think it might be on Netflix a lot of other places. Because isn't it Netflix sponsored? It's on Hulu. Okay. So I think that the movies, I don't remember if the movies, which are essentially season four and will be season five, are only Netflix exclusive. But you can find Sailor Moon Crystal on Netflix. And you can find it also on hulu hulu also has the original

anime yes so check it out you can watch and chat and listen with us and next month we'll be covering season two so more to come on that yeah we also have something special for that one, too. Well, let's start talking about more about Victarion. We got some emails and tweets and notes this week. Yeah, our friend Pat emailed us on the Snark Night, if we're going to get official on it. One of our buddies sent us an email and said,

Your graces. Ooh, I like that. I like that, first of all. Thanks, Pat. Grace is God. Don't make me do it again g g g c c u did i do it i think i did it i don't even know what all the letters stood for the first time around i just let you keep saying it over and over again cinematic universe the ggc cinematic universe eliana coming back to the gg cc you pat says i think victorian doesn't get dragged enough over the third woman he married being assault life unless george throws in an alternate definition victorian basically war-crimed this person back to the iron islands it's easy to

imagine you're on coming to her as he came to Valley of Flowers, saying, you're being harmed and I'm on your side. Victarion's grief over his third wife has a touch of Thanos grieving in Infinity Wars. I can't find the words for it, like, they aren't legitimate feelings. It also reminds me of Always Sunny, the gang finds a dead guy. Victarion, can't believe you're making me kill my wife. Universe, can't believe you're making me kill my wife Universe can't believe you kidnapped and enslaved a woman sigh thanks Pat slash the snark knight yeah so I absolutely agree

like I think that really stands out that this was Victarian's salt wife especially on a reread and knowing the distinctions between a salt wife and a rock wife and as pat said right like this is someone who was war-crimed kidnapped enslaved back to the iron islands we don't even know i think from where or from what conquest i guess like where he got

her and i think that a lot of victorian's grief i'm not sure right like because also victorian doesn't really i think want to analyze that like he says that he loved her i don't know that like that's true or not because we don't know anything about her because he doesn't want to think about her right the same same way that i guess ned avoids thinking about liana because is it a traumatic moment for victorian because he had to kill kill someone that he owned like something that what he felt was his and that his brother took from him right i think you described it as like sandor and gregor right last last episode and i don't say this like putting the trauma on vicarian because obviously like that's ridiculous because it's obviously worse for the the woman

that he murdered but i mean i'm just laying it out as like what we're getting on the page because to an extent like that's how it's being portrayed to us or is it like did he actually care about her on some level right i guess same as how there's that ambiguity of was she raped by Euron or did she consent? Not that it matters for the end result because death is not the outcome of that, should not be the outcome of that. And Victarion treats this whole thing as an extension of his honor. He treats this salt wife as an extension of himself. We don't even get her name, which I don't know if that's on

Victarion or if that's on George because I'm going to be honest, it's a pattern enough with George that he does lapse with that in his writing. But I struggle also with seeing, I do disagree with it being Thanos' grief in Infinity Wars

and whether or not those feelings are legitimate, and I'll come back to that with like seeing, I do disagree with it being like Thanos' grief in Infinity Wars, and whether or not those feelings are legitimate, and I'll come back to that in a second. Yeah, I think there's something very obvious that she is in a position, no matter what, his third wife was in a position of no power in comparison to Euron, or in comparison to Victarion, right? Yeah. And salt lives are, like, they're put through a religious ceremony, you know, dunked in the water to say,

you belong to him now, bitch. Like, that's it. And they have no power to get out. So there's something interesting in, like, I think there's, it's got multitudes and depths, right? Right. What's great about everything George writes is it isn't just black and white. It isn't good or bad. You know, onion shit, Eliana.

But, I mean, Victarion, the trauma for him comes from, he had to choose in that moment to abandon everything he grew up with and was told was the right thing. His culture, his religion, his everything, and go against it. right thing his culture his religion his everything and go against it in that moment he could either make a choice and leave it all take her with him say fuck it all fuck my like fuck my huge fleet of ships fuck my brothers fuck my riches i can go make it on my own and reeve on my own with my loyal men with my woman and get away from my awful brother like he could have done that or he could choose to submit which is what he chose to do to still keep those comforts around him right so like in choosing not to do all that i mean that's a big moment of choice not everyone can make that choice like even in the opposite position is really where i would usually be thinking this way right like of somebody

who has to choose to pick up all their things and go because they're an abusive situation uh and Euron is abusive I mean what Victarion does in turn not because necessarily of Euron's abuse but that is a part of it right like that is a part of it of the hurt people hurting people and of the culture but he made that choice and he still did kill her and that was in response to his brother. And in response to knowing that he thinks his brother tarnishes everything he touches and being unable to actually digest his brother, his culture, what he's been brought up to do. Like he can't parse all of those things. The man is only equipped to parse so much. And that's not on him either.

That's ignorance. Like that comes from a place of ignorance for Victarion. Yeah, he doesn't let himself do that because we'll talk about that more later. But I love the way that you've put all of that, right? Like it's it is a multifaceted situation. And I don't again, we're not trying to take away the crime, you know, the blame from victorian but like this is a book and we're here to analyze it and i do you know i struggle with like the idea of also i think this is this is kind of tangential right to pat's point but this is just me sharing my own shit with the thanos in infinity war i know that a lot of people

took that as like it wasn't really a sacrifice on thanos's part because to do that to someone means you don't actually love them you can't actually agree with them because you don't really love them and um i think that yeah i agree it's not really a sacrifice on thanos's part right it wasn't his sacrifice to make but i also am like are those feelings of loss when someone is not there anymore legitimate could you have really loved them and like this is something that i've discussed with fangirl jean whom we had on for our Jamie chapters back then, and whose insights like I really appreciate. And I love talking about media with her. And because it helped me understand that like, and this is coming from my own like childhood shit. And I don't want

to put this on romantic relationships or something that has to do with sexual or marital relationships. This is mostly in the context of parental and child relationships, but I do think that it is possible for you to love someone, like for a parent to love their child and to still abuse them and hurt them. And I think that drawing the distinction of saying that when you experience abuse, you can say that acts of abuse are not love but it's hard to say that someone who is abusing you doesn't love you because when we do that we remove the ability for people to articulate what is happening to them and to be able to understand that like this person in my life who's supposed to like love me or protect me or whatever is hurting me and

that's not okay because you end up creating these mental blockers of this person loves me. Therefore they cannot actually be hurting me. They cannot actually be abusing me. And I think that this is one of those, um, this is one of those gray areas, right?

Like I think that a book series that I would highly recommend that explores the concept of parental abuse and love is, is Earth trilogy by N.K. Jemisin. And I highly recommend that as a great way of seeing the facets of that. But that's more of my own baggage. No, that's great baggage to bring. Thank you for dumping your baggage here. I have traveled over here on a ship with my own baggage no i do i i'm glad you bring that perspective because i think again that's also multifaceted and coming from a perspective of a couple of my best friends have some some

you know really big conflicts in their life that have come from their parental abuses there's one that is like kind of stalking me instead of him to try to get in contact with him and it's very frustrating and sad yeah because you can see some of those facets of those both sides like how does it coexist right like there could be love but also there could be abuse and abuse does not mean love and love doesn't always mean abuse you know these things just don't always go hand in hand and they could be separate things that have happened to build a person and the blocks of victorian for example seem to kind of have some of those facets and looking at i mean infinity wars too there's but we're not doing a podcast about infinity wars so i'm not gonna go into it at all there's too much if you want to hear

Chloe talk about the Marvel Universe, go listen to our friend's history of the MCU. That's a cinematic universe. H-M-C. Anyways, but I'm not going there. It's a bit. Yeah, it's

a, it just is a little more complex, I think, in a lot of facets. A lot of facets still wrong, just complex. And that's life. Life is fucking complex. Yeah. And again, I don't want to speak for, you know, situations of sexual, like, domestic, like, intimate partner violence, that kind of violence or abuse, because that's not the perspective that I can share or bring to that. And I don't want to like, say that, you know, that is

love or abuse or not. I'm just talking solely from the context of Thanos. Well, his purple little face. Big face. It's kind of big. I was like, it's big, right? It's like eggplant-y. It's got those weird lines anyways thank you pat for your email it became polarizing for me and eliana we had a whole discussion we had fun thank you so much yeah thank you don't forget you can always send your little emails in your little notes into us we'll read them keep your ears open for that email address towards the end or your big ones yeah like our friend maddie uh keep your ears peeled yeah for that email address later on in the app.

Until then. Like I said, I have still one more email up my sleeve that I'm saving for something else in these chapters. Watch out. Until then, let's jump into our lightning round, starting with The Drowned Man, a pretty big chapter to miss. Aaron Greyjoy wades into the waters in the voice of the drowned god, declares a new king. Brienne IV. Brienne fights the remaining mummers and lays a grave for

nimble dick crab. What a real one. The Queenmaker. The best laid plans go horribly awry for Ariane Martell. They really do. Yep. Actually get its own episode too. We're gonna do Ariane chapters next. Actually, it's not a bad idea. They really do. Yeah, bad. That should get its own episode, too. We're gonna do Arianne chapters next. Actually, it's not a

bad idea. Aria, too. Aria must dispose of her identity and belongings if she wishes to join the Faceless Men in full. Elaine won. The veil is great, except for when it isn't. Cersei 5. Cersei flexes her paranoia

and remembers Maggie's prophecy. Oh, your favorite't. Cersei 5. Cersei flexes her paranoia and remembers Maggie's prophecy. Oh, your favorite thing. Brienne 5. Brienne embarks on a journey with Septon Mirabal. Samuel 3. In Braavos, Sam is saved by someone familiar to us. He seeks a remedy for Aemon. Hold on.

You were talking about earlier, Victarion. He could have just absconded and been like, fuck this way of life. That's what Sam does with Gilly. If you think about it in aarion he could have just absconded and been like fuck this way of life that's what Sam does with Gilly if you think about it in a way he's like I'm not gonna I'm gonna rescue this girl that's true that's a good point

Sam our boy Jamie 3 Jamie smacks the fuck out of Red Ron at Connington Cersei 6 Cersei restores the faith militant always sunny music plays in the background oh that one Edronic Connington. Cersei Six. Cersei restores the Faith Militant. Always sunny music plays in the background. Oh, that one. And now we're at the Reaver.

Action stations. Welcome aboard the Iron Victory, where things are not feeling so victorious for Victarion as he's rewarded for his reaving with his brother's dirty deeds. We open the chapter with drums pounding upon a naval theater. I have to say, Aliana wrote this line here, this beautiful, glorious intro line for me, and it was everything.

It was cabaret. It's giving cabaret. It's giving Broadway. Thank you, Aliana. It's arts. It's avant-garde. Thank you, thank you. The drums pounding do make me think

of catalan's chapters actually in a way right that we came off of in storm with the drums pounding but this is a more internal that was more internal and intimate kind of war scene right all held within a castle but here it's a huge production it's on the open water everything's banging and going off yeah george was like we have the budget in this chapter but you know who did it? HBO who never showed us any of this got em roses are on the banners

a white rose on a red escutcheon below a gold rose on green is this the bachelor? no it's weaving the iron victory is taking a reachman's ship. That's what the roses are all about. We are ramming the ships, oars are snapping,

Victarion is jumping gunwales onto another ship, and most of the reachman sailors actually have no armor, so these are no iron men, Victarion thought. They still fear drowning. Yes, we're setting up the where, the who, the why.

We're in the Shield Islands at House Ceri, a white rose on red. I love the idea of the white rose on red because as the language will soon suggest, and I'll point out once more, that white rose will turn red today, right? With blood. Hey, George wrote it.

Okay, I just am here to decipher. I'm just the apostle. Ceri used to be the defense on the Mander against the reaving Ironborn and here they are standing their ground. We only get a little information in the Storm Appendix on House Ceri before now. They're not in

the world books. They're not in Fire and Blood. It makes me feel like they were sewn in by Georgie Georgie into the plot for all're not in fire and blood it makes me feel like they were sewn in by georgie georgie into the plot for all this to be done and for them to kind of grow with iron islands i think he was like shit i need some more people to fight them yeah yeah definitely and yeah he victorian is all like they still fear drowning i just thought that was amusing and I realized, I guess Victarion's technically probably been drowned before, right? At least, like, for his baptism for the drowned god ceremony. Yeah, absolutely. At least once, if not more than once, like when returning.

You know, sometimes they go for a little baptismal dip when they get back from their big battles yeah yeah well victorian goads the reachman to kill him and then we have this line of from all sides the rosy warriors converged with gray steel in their hands and terror behind their eyes their fear was so ripe, Victarion could taste it. I love that, especially knowing what we know about the Reach's fertility when it comes to crops, right? That Victarion can almost taste their fear. What was the last time we think about fruit in the Reach? Asha on

a barge? Peaches with Carl? Or Robert bringing Ned all that fruit, saying oh, wait till you have fruit from the arbor. It's so ripe. So sweet. So are the women, Ned. Definitely reminds me of that.

But here everything is kind of turned negative. I mean, this is our first real, real look at the Reach, right? Like intimately in Feast in general. So we see Old Town, which is it's fine, but it's academia. That's a college town, right? This right here is the Reach. You're out where things are fertile and gorgeous, but everything's already being turned to hell. I love the duality of the roses, the rosy warriors.

They're rosy because they're from the Reach. But again, their blood's going to be rose red real soon. Yeah. Oh, that's great. That's a great point. Absolutely. And also he's kind of like, I don't are they even real real warriors which we find out hashtag some of them some of them um he even respects some yeah yeah well victorian does a well choreographed fight scene

holding them all off until his ironman arrives back. We're not going to go through all of it. It's Wolf One Ear, Ragnar Pike, Newt the Barber with a flashy entrance. I love that he has this ragtag group of men and none of them have real notable names. They're all kind of bastards that have grown up and been able to make a living

for themselves, right? You have a Pike. Their names are great. George had too much fun here. Rock and roll. He had a lot of fun this chapter. I love it. Victarion goes for the captain across the deck, Sir Talbert Sarey, son and heir of Lord Osbert Sarey,

in the Shield Islands. They do a one-on-one while choreographed fight again on a moving ship, a lot of those in this chapter, where Victarion catches a sword in his iron fist, then rips it from Talbert's on one well choreographed fight again on a moving ship a lot of those in this chapter where victorian catches a sword in his iron fist then rips it from talbert's hands flinging him into the ocean after now victorian pulls his axe loose and the white roses fall back before the iron tide yeah again george george had a lot of fun with some of the language in here yeah i i would think it's

you know, it's a battle scene. It's not for me always. I'm not always into battle scenes, but this one's fun. And the language, he keeps it fun, right? I think he's had to have thought about some of his favorite historical kind of books he's read. Fictional books were talking about battles and the War of the Roses and

different things. I'm sure there's lots of great great language in there doing this. some of the men keep fighting gathered in a ring and victorian respects them for dying instead of yielding but he's still gonna kill them the drowned god had not shaped victorian grayjoy to fight with words at king's moots nor struggle against fear of sneaking foes in endless bogs. This was why he had been put on earth, to stand steel-clad with an axe, red and dripping in his hand, dealing

death with every blow. He is kind of sounding like my BF here, my boyfriend, Sandor Clegane. Sand Bob Dog Clegane. Killing is the sweetest thing there is, Victarion says. Yeah, it's like head empty no thoughts just vibes

in this I mean I guess that's why he like actually Jamie feels kind of the same too right about about fighting and killing yeah and anyway there's more fighting there's a lot of fighting as you said the last man to face him

is maybe a smith based on the fact that he has shoulders like a bull, which is how he's described. And one arm is more muscular than the other. And you know what? It's not him. But this description reminds me of Gendry. Oh, yeah, with the bull. Yeah.

I feel like it's the text being like, remember that kid? And every now and then. Because I think, I mean, mean obviously gendry comes back also george has said that he will and victorian wishes he could deal with euron as simply as he dealt with all of this especially this this smith and you know it's so true dealing with interpersonal conflict is a lot harder than just using your fist. Not that that stops some people. Though, again, I guess he's one of those people, right? He did kind of try to deal with this conflict using violence already. But turns out intimate partner violence by killing his wife was not actually the answer.

Much wow. Glad he learned it after the third one, you know? I don't think he did. I still think he didn't. I don't know that he learned a lesson yet, besides you're on bad. Which is true, but not in this way. It's still true. But, like, and?

And? Yeah. This is not an or. This is an and situation. Victarian. Yeah. He's, right, like, every problem is a nail a nail right you give a man a hammer or something like that i don't remember how this thing goes i'm bad with idioms if you give him if you teach

a man to fish um anyway the deck is slick with blood and guts and the barber says the day is ours the rest of the sea is full of wasted, with half a dozen of them racing back to the Mandar. Victarion, like Shan Yu in Mulan, says to let them go and tell the tale, give that warning. But unlike Shan Yu, is not a feminist, which you can tell from this line. Once a man had turned his tail and run from battle, he ceased to be a man. And, okay, well, Shan Yu is the only one who's like yeah absolutely that's the warrior in the mountains i don't care if it's a woman that was that was feminism and yeah so so you can see from this line right like how manhood in the iron islands i don't know if it's really even that different

from like some of the way that it's seen in west rose except for maybe doran so much as it's like taken to the extreme right if west rose already turned it up to 11 like iron islands is turning it up to 20 and and that idea that manhood must be earned through bloodshed or necessarily that it should be lost through bloodshed right that by losing that that kills you or by running that that is what takes your manhood away your masculinity away i mean it all comes back to the broken man speech from this very same book right uh and the man breaks he turns and runs or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain or steals away in the black of night and finds some place to hide. They go on to quote how gods mean nothing,

kings mean nothing, home means nothing. Once a man runs, think of someone like Beric Dondarrion or Sandor Clegane. Are they less of a man because they ran and they went off to find a new cause? Because Sandor protected his inner peace? Does that make him less of a man? Sometimes you need to protect your inner peace. Sometimes you need to mute words on Twitter, you need to block people, and you need to protect your inner peace, Sandor. Yeah. Just saying.

That's what Victarion should have done, and did not do. Block. You're on. Block. You're on. Block, block, block, block, block. Instead, he's just blocking his own thoughts. Which is not good, Bestie. That's repression.

Yeah. Repression and regression, they go hand in hand. Yeah. Actually, though. Probably. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. As Victarion removes his armor post-battle, he asks if anyone had fished out Cersei,

who would be kind of worth a good ransom from his father or Highgarden, but unfortunately no one knows what happened to him. See? Using his brain a little bit there. Victarion says Rip to a real one and thinks Sir Ceri was brave, almost ironborn. I do like that about Victarion in a way, right?

While no, he sees that as emasculinating to run from battle, he respects that Sir emasculinating to run from battle, he respects that Sir Ceri held out, you know, to protect his people, etc. Yeah, he flung him into the sea, but, like, just like a domesticated animal. What's Victarion gonna do when he actually catches his prey, right? Hell, with Dany, too, what's he gonna do? My god, if he ever caught her.

Come on, now. He may as well play with his prey again right and that's what i feel like he was ready to do with sari yeah he was like i guess we'll ransom him which now that i think about it is that that well it's different from selling someone into slavery because then you just sell him back into his life of privilege as a lord so that is different never mind but yeah i thought it was kind of funny that he's like did did we get him i mean i know i threw him overboard but like someone should have gotten him it was like why would you throw him overboard but you know he was i guess caught up in the moment and it's smart that

he sees he could exploit the castle at higharden for much more gain than just murdering everyone, which is kind of the problem for the Ironborn, right? Like that's one of their big conflicts is not knowing when. Like vampires. Yeah. Like don't suck all the blood out. Yeah. Just like I, he, he can see some of these political situations. We'll talk about it later. Just like, I think he would have been like, but what if we didn't give moat cailin to theon had he been there the captured ship goes to ragnar pike who names a dozen not 20 good men to crew her the captives are to be stripped of arms and armor and receive medical attention except for the dying ones who get thrown in the sea the ones who ask for mercy get their throats cut first because it's better

to drown in seawater i just thought this was an interesting moment, right? How he says that the ones who ask for mercy amongst those who are already dying should, you know, get this, like, dishonorable looking thing, right? There's so much about the Iron Islands that is wrapped up in this idea of honor that is, again, taken to the extreme versus Westeros, right? that is again taken to the extreme versus westeros like like i think that you can liken victorian murdering his wife to to honor killings and stuff like that and anyways the captives probably wouldn't understand like you know that their throat being slit is not an act of mercy uh they probably perceive it as such and maybe even appreciate it to the extent that you can appreciate being murdered faster i don't know like you know you were talking about sandor earlier right whereas victorian sees it as very dishonorable because again better to drown in

seawater so you're closer to the drowned god he struggles he he doesn't this is like a cultural gap that he doesn't ever really want to cross yeah interesting because they just would see it as dying yeah I think it's something that George did well showing the differences in those cultures distinguishing them very clearly very clearly because literally

and I'll bring this up again in a bit the last chapter is in the sept right so you're coming from a culture shock it's really great the last chapter is way quieter little culture shock compared to this uh and in a way i mean aaron throughout this chapter is basically just trying to be the high sparrow of the ironborn you know yeah victorian looks for a count of his ships knights and lords taken captive from the crew. Also the banners for his home decor. I love that the Ironborn really act like they're so different. But they're way more futile than they think.

And there's lots of traces of it throughout this chapter. Even the act of taking hostages. I mean, thralls, right? Thralls to them are literally what hostages and wards taken after battle in Westeros are. Yeah. They're not entirely too different. Thralls to them are literally what hostages and wards taken after battle in Westeros are. Yeah. They're not entirely too different. I guess they take way more, right?

Because they might take common folk to some of which they're basically enslaved, but some of them aren't. Yeah, some of them are treated, but that's the same of Westeros, right? Some of them are treated normal. Some of them are treated like slaves. Some of them are treated like servants? Some of them are treated normal. Some of them are treated like slaves. Some of them are treated like servants. Some of them are treated well. Just depends. Just depends. Newt calls this a

great victory, but Victarion sulks inside about it being a victory for his great new band name, the Crow's Eyes and his wizards. Because you know, Euron won the king's moot because his family's full of idiots. Except for Asha. We have this line of

Euron had seduced them with his glib tongue and smiling eye and bound them to his cause with the plunder of half a hundred distant lands. Gold and silver, ornate armor, curved swords with gilded pommels, dagger Valyrian seals, striped tiger pelts, and the skins of spotted cats, jade manticores, dagger of Valyrian seals, striped tiger pelts, and the skins of

spotted cats, jade manticores, and ancient Valyrian sphinxes, chests of nutmeg, cloves, and saffron, ivory tusks and the horns of unicorns, green and orange and yellow feathers from the summer sea, bolts of fine silk and shimmering samite, and yet all that was little and less compared to this. and yet all that was little and less compared to this. Now he has given them conquest, and they are his for good and all, the captain thought. Poor Victarion, the one thing he never thought to give them. Ah, the irony, right?

Because what do they need with all of this finery? But, that said, and maybe this is coming from a place of playing a lot of Civilization VI recently, they're sick of their culture being behind. Those bitches are, the Norse especially, are like, my god, they'll come up to me and they'll be like, can we have your luxurious items? Our people really want them. And I'm like, what the fuck are you going to give me? And they're like, nothing.

And I'm like, no. Go get your own luxury items, dicks. You should have landed here first. Anyways, play Civ. It's fun. They're sick of their culture being behind, right? They're sick of being second best to another culture. Why don't they get to have these nice things too?

Something that really stood out to me, though, was that there are daggers of Valyrian steel, multiple. And there are also two other Valyrian swords present. Right? Nightfall and Red Rain. In the crowd here of people fighting. So it's weird because I'm like, Euron has sought out all this Valyrian steel. Everyone thinks it's really unnatural,

uncommon, can't be found, but Euron found it. Euron went out and sought it. Perhaps because they go seeking it, and others don't, choosing to believe it's dead, which kind of reminds me of Daenerys, right, that they're now also seeking out Daenerys, who everyone's like, that's not real. There's no such thing as dragons.

Just go take it. Just go get it. Yeah, that's not real. No dragons. Women in power. That's not real. So funny. But yeah, I do wonder, like, is it a lot of daggers many daggers is it he does you know not to spoil too much of the first he does find a lot a lot of valyrian steel and some interesting stuff but also it's like not all the ironborn i guess have it it's

mostly like him you're on yeah who has it which is part of why it's so seductive and i don't know it is interesting that the ironborn do want all of these exotic things right they want to own it all yet they don't want to go out and get it not that you know it's good to steal it from the other people but they don't want to venture far from home so they're like wow amazing but like all of them technically have a lot of the skills except for apparently navigation which we'll talk about in a second but uh that's what that's what makes euron so powerful right like he uses all of these trappings of exoticism to give himself power he uses the mystery of it to make himself seem powerful and like i think relies on i don't know orientalist biases biases or some shit to make himself seem amazing.

And like, ooh, ooh, look at all this shit he knows. And it's like, y'all got ships. I've got a lot of commentary on remembering kids I went to school with that I'm not going to go into anyways. But I'm just thinking like, you know, that mix mix of hot topic core and like japanese stuff and like half otaku but like before it was like it wasn't cool conventiony though that what yeah yeah we we paved the way we fought for the acceptance of anime oh my god amongst the real activists yeah i think people like really need to you know honor their elders like me more oh so you are defending your on no i'm just kidding aliana i was kidding

victorian is obviously super bitter about all of this right because he won the victory not your on who's just chilling at oak and shield while he's out there battling for his life he stole my wife and he stole my throne and now he steals my glory. Obedience came naturally to Victarion Greyjoy. He had been born to it. Growing to manhood in the shadow of his brothers, he had followed Balin dutifully in everything he did. Later, when Balin's sons were born, he had grown to accept one day he would kneel to them as well, when one of them took his father's place upon the sea stone chair. But the drowned god had summoned Balon and his sons down to his watery halls,

and Victarion could not call Euron king without tasting bile in his throat. I was reading this, and this stood out to me so hard. Remember we were just talking during Bran, about every time he skin-changed Hodor something that we noticed coming up? Bile, to be exact, coming up that he could taste bile in the back of Hodor's throat? This just makes me wonder, is this like a trauma response to Victarion you're on skin changing him maybe he's possibly been skin changed because especially in the forsaken we'll get more info but you're on seems to have some bonds that he's betrayed with his brothers with several of them it just makes me wonder if this is a trauma response like if he's tasting that bile and remembering once when Euron skin changed him.

I think that's interesting. I wonder if he tried but didn't succeed. And like, as we, as you were saying, Victarion does do a lot of repression. So that's something that could be like a memory that he represses. He has this sort of like Pavlovian response or something to Euron in general with that and it's also interesting because like now that you say that it makes me think of again veramir's chapter and thistle biting off her tongue to try and and eject him from her body and all of euron's crew having no tongues. Mm-hmm. I would believe that would be because of the skin changing.

Yes, yes. That's also what I was thinking with the Dusky Woman that we're going to talk about with the tongue. Like, that to me says, hmm. Yeah, she's here. Lots to think about. Yeah, she's here now. Lots to think about. Yeah.

There's definitely more Euron present, I feel like, in all of his brother's lives than the text lets on and there's also something about Victarion being stronger but weak-willed towards his brother whereas Euron's other siblings are all kind of weaker physically than him Victarion doesn't seem to be that much weaker than him necessarily. Victarion's kind of brawny. Right? Not as much of the brainy type, so it's just interesting. Like, maybe he wanted him to be his

arms and legs at one point. Yeah. Yeah. But I kind of wonder if Euron is actually good at fighting. He just, like, he could hold his own. He's not, like, amazing at it, probably, but I wonder i wonder maybe i don't know we haven't really seen it i mean unless he's coming down as the deck comes down with flames

behind him you know with sand snakes on his ship i don't want to see it oh my god i forgot about that i that talk about repressed memories i repressed that you know that was actually kind of like if they had to burn down the books that was a fun scene it was okay i guess i don't know uh it was stupid how it all meddled together but i mean at least they did something i don't want to think about it anymore repress repress or like his last scene. I'm shoving that back down. So after the battles, Victarion craves wine. He heads below deck to the cramped cabin,

aft, to the sex slave that Euron gifted him, the Dusky Woman, who also does not have a name. And you were talking about Euron and her. I know a lot of people have theorized, I've seen it come up a lot, that Euron is skin-changing the Dusky Woman, and therefore woman and therefore i guess i don't know having sex with victorian but

i don't i don't know but i just wanted all of you i had to see this theory a lot so now all of you have to know it that's just fair thank you yeah in george fashion she's described as wet and ready, and that Victarion took her twice in quick succession. And then, like, there's this, like, this weird fake out there where when he's done, she's, like, described as very bloody. But turns out it's from Victarion's hand, which, as you all know, he caught that sword in. And I just think it's a weird fake out right with that fear of sexual violence because of we we know about victorian's past and a lot of ironborn culture where rape is very normalized and it's like i mean it's normalized in westers in general but especially within the context of of battle and grieving but like you you wonder did victorian hurt her like he did to his murdered

wife but then there's this weird moment of like relief i guess when you find out that that's not what happened like he didn't hurt her any worse than having just already raped her twice and weird moment yeah also that he remarks that she's wet and willing already. Yeah, it's weird. It's all weird. Yeah. So he forces this poor woman to listen to him as she washes his wound with boiled vinegar.

And I have to point out this line that comes to you from Eliana, who should win, you know, I mean, an amount of awards. But instead of going to a therapist, he tells her about how Euron's plan was good in terms of giving them the Mander as a path. Real Kendall Roy shit. I saw dad's plan and it was better. I saw Euron's plan and it was better. Oh, my gosh.

In the past, tis the season, babies, tis the last season. In the past, the Mander was guarded and served as an alarm system full of armed fisher folk and old men standing watch. Then people would come from the Shield Islands with long ships to chase the raiders out. I like how this is all tying into the Tyrells with where they are in the capital right now and how they're throwing their stock in with the Lannisters. Not much of a choice left, I guess. And their world's kind of being destroyed over here, right? Like, this is the Mander that they sail their little pleasure barges on, and they weave little flowers in their hair,

and they do little, you know, guzzle some arbor wine happily. This is their dream sea. And it's getting destroyed. And it's only going to get worse as we get into the Winds of Winter, right? Because the Reach is probably going to be decimated because they're going to be too busy playing ball with young Griff and going, you know, going toe-to-toe with some of the other Reach lords. Yeah, you're starting to see

that the whole Tyrell power structure is very much threatened, right? The whole reason people come to the Reach is because, as you said, you got pleasure barges, you got orchards, you got a lot of cool shit, you got wineries.

And that's all about to be really not as great yeah burned all down yeah and raided by reavers yeah yeah the library's cool bummer a bummer for all for all and besides all of this euron had sent torbald brown Browntooth, and the Red Oarsmen with long ships as bait for the Shield Islands so by the time that Victarion had got there only some fighting men remained. The setting sun hid their arrival from the Greybeards and the Watchtowers and they had wind at their backs allegedly thanks to wizards. Yeah so these wizards are apparently the ones who helped Euron sail far away into the west.

And, like, Victarion's just amazed by this. He's like, I can't believe, like, why would he go all this way? How do we sail and navigate this? You have to stay near the shoreline because, like, what if you get lost? And so I'm like, does he not know how to navigate using the stars? know how to navigate using the stars like that this is a legitimate question that I have because like

then it means that the ironborn considering that they are cultures so known for seafaring amongst readers that they've built their entire culture and lifestyle around it are very behind them technologically if they don't have this very basic knowledge

that is interesting then, technologically, if they don't have this very basic knowledge. That is interesting, and it does kind of pop out, especially after Davos's chapters. Yeah, like, I feel like this is normal, common knowledge amongst sailors, but I don't know. Maybe it's not for the Ironborn, which is weird, considering that they are so advanced, allegedly, in this. But I don't know. I wonder if it's also just more not knowing where things are in the West. Like that, because it sounds like this trip is the trip Alyssa Farman made, right? Or tried to make or whatever happened.

So it sounds almost, yeah, it's similar in that way so i don't know i wonder also if like once you get to unknown uncharted territory maybe that's really what he's saying because i find it hard to believe like in westeros sure but if you're going somewhere where you really don't know where you're going and you're going to come across like disease or like dinosaurs and sothoryos you don't know where the fuck or how the fuck you're going and you're gonna come across like disease or like dinosaurs and sothoryos you don't know where the fuck or how the fuck you're going you just keep going west you know that's true yeah you could that's true there are you need to find a place to rest it does seem scary then there's like the poison butterflies there is a lot of perils out there that you know could be made up like that they were in our real world, but also considering dragons and, I don't know, other magic is real, and the lands, the, the world of ice and fire told us this shit is real, it's probably real. It's probably really dinosaurs and crazy shit.

I'm just saying, maybe he's being cautious when you go unknown places, uncharted places. Yeah, yep, fair, fair. I don't think they need to, like, follow the shore if they're going to the north. Yeah. They've been there. I know, I mean, like, he's made it far enough, right? Like, so he must have navigated there, right, when he converges with Tyrion, so. Exactly.

Someone's nose. Maybe, or maybe Euron knows nothing. I mean, he did have to hire wizards. That would be very interesting, too, that he knows absolutely nothing about that. I don't know. I'm sorry. That just makes it sound so funny, like you hired a clown for your child's party. I hired these wizards. Like Fizbo from Modern Family. We have a passage. He still needs to fight his battles, though, Victarion insisted.

Wizards may be well and good, but blood and steel win wars. The vinegar made his wound hurt worse than ever. He shoved the woman away and closed his fist, glowering. Bring me wine. He drank in the darkness, brooding on his brother. If I do not strike the blow with mine own hand, am I still a kinslayer? Victarion feared no man, but the drowned god's curse gave him pause. If another strikes him down at my command, will his blood still stain my hands?

Aron Dampair would know the answer, but the priest was somewhere back on the Iron Islands, still hoping to raise the ironborn against their new crowned king Luke the barber can shave a man with a thrown axe from twenty yards away and none of Euron's mongrels could stand against Wolf One-Ear or Andric the Unsmiling

any of them could do it but what a man can do and what a man will do are two different things he knew I love that last line also wow so that's how Newt got his name good to know yes

yeah I just think that that last line of what a man can do and what a man will do being two different things is it's just such a big part of what A Song of Ice and Fire different things is it's just such a big part of what a song of ice and fire in general is exploring and i could give examples but there's just too many and i don't feel like it just read the books yeah just read the books this is a reread and like it happens all the time it has a lot of the when can a man be brave energy to it as well you know yes it's

got a lot of that and there's that line there that to it as well. You know, it's got a lot of that. And there's that line there that if I do not strike the blow with mine own hand, am I still a Kinslayer? IDK, ask your brother Euron, right? Because that's, I mean, that's the defense that he's hiding behind. He knows that if anyone asks him, did you kill Balin? No, even if he gets found out for probably who killed Balin, which we probably think is a faceless man, then he could say it was not me. I did not do it. That's his defense.

Yeah. It's kind of funny because he also I don't think Euron cares. He's like, I don't fucking know. Like, there was the other kin that I actually did slay with literally my own hands. So like, what's one more? You know, what's one more after all the other ones so but but the question of like where does culpability lie right how far back does it go i think is a big part of a song of ice and fire you have that question with blood raven you have that question with stannis and even with Renly right like is Renly would

he have been culpable of being like go fight my brother at like dawn but you know does he is he guilty then still and I mean I don't know probably like I would say that if you think about the story of David from the bible and when he was was like, go send Bathsheba's, that was her, right? Bathsheba's husband to the front line so that he'll die and I can marry her. God was pretty mad at him for that. So I think it counts. That's true. I think it counts too.

I mean, I think that the thought was there, you know, the premeditation was there one way or another. So yeah, but Victorian is also, he is still also, he, I guess he's trying to figure that out. Right. Cause he has, he's trying to figure out where does this guilt and culpability lie?

Because it's, it's his question of like, well, if I blame your on for the death of of my wife even though i'm the one who killed her then he's like well then i would have to be guilty if i gave the orders for someone else to kill euron yeah yeah i mean there's really no other yeah yep i mean that's it yep after euron was elected because erin called a king'sot instead of letting Asha inherit, fucker, he prophesied to Victarion that Euron's blasphemies would call the drowned gods wroth, and they should do something because we are still of Balon's blood, are we not? is too dingus and again aaron's kingsmoot did this aaron crowned him and aaron's like yeah but i'd uncrown him to give it to you the only one strong enough to fight him brother victorian says this

was the drowned god's will and aaron says this was not their god but sorcery there is actually a very interesting philosophical and even like theological discussion going on here between victorian and aaron like both of which come in quick succession right like in terms of where does culpability lie for this and then also then uh to what extent like do we see this election as the will of god especially especially with Aaron being the one helming it. And as I see Victarion parse this all out, it's kind of something that's more vexing about him and frustrating because Victarion reasons all this out and gives really great rebuttals to what Aaron says. And he even susses out Euron's plan later. We see him analyzing the Mander plan earlier.

And I think that Victarion might actually not be that stupid. Not as much as people think now that I reread him, which is surprising to me, and it is not going to stop me from making fun of him and calling him stupid. But he also, I think, might be not as dumb've we've kind of accepted overall um big agree i think he's more like ignorant he is ignorant and part of that is his own fault which is stupid and like you know what he is is he is very like deeply misogynist right he's deeply xenophobic and racist as we've seen and i think that he really embodies this like conservative mindset where he's deeply xenophobic and racist as we've seen and i think that he really embodies this like conservative mindset where he's so deeply entrenched and invested in certain power

structures and again failing to see how those structures end up disenfranchising him and cause him pain and and it leads to him misunderstanding things like when asha suggests them sharing power when it comes to the system chair or or the doth rocky sea later on dealing it because he can't understand the concept of different possibilities because again like the structure of his world relies on it relies on certain things just are not what they should be what they could be there's no like world of possibilities there and and that's why when asha suggests sharing power he thinks that she's proposing marriage and starts trying to see her sexually before remembering her as balin's daughter and as a

little girl because people who are assigned female at birth can only be two things to him right they're either women and therefore equated with sexual objects, or they are little girls and therefore undesirable. The only way to make Asha not a sexual object and undesirable is to think of her as Balin's daughter and a little girl. Those are the only possibilities for anyone who's female. And then something like the Dothraki Sea, even if we know it's not a water sea, it's his to sail, grass or not, because anything that exists in Essos, right, can't possibly even, he can't fathom it rivaling the strength of the Ironborn, and it must be something he can conquer, because that's the reality that he's been told and taught. And the things that he can't understand, especially when it comes to Euron, I don't

think those are things that he can't understand especially when it comes to Euron I don't think those are things that are beyond his understanding I think that he could understand it if he wanted to but they are things that he's unwilling to understand because then he would have to reckon with the cognitive dissonance of his own guilt and also his sense of self as an ironborn as victorian uh as as as a gray joy and then realize that the structure that he relies upon for his reality is a faulty one and that the old way that he's chasing is insufficient like he'd have to completely just like rewrite his sense of self and his reality to fit any of that and you know i again like he's really just not the brightest

bulb i'm not gonna like say whoa you know victorians like samwell tarly level and shit but i will i will liken him to a tarly in a second like he's not that dumb and i think it's seductive to think that he is because he sees the world so horribly and like reframes and distorts his understanding in order to fit like this sexist and xenophobic lens but then that i think plays into the myth that like only ignorance or a lack of intelligence is why someone would believe those things when it's actually complacency his lack of empathy again because his reality relies upon it and because that questioning it would threaten not just like

their power but literally their sense of self and how they understand the world and like lead to an existential crisis which he's like on the verge of constantly and thinking about it like this i actually think that victorian might be the closest pov that we have to randall tarley who is regarded by many characters as one of like the greatest leaders or military minds in Westeros, including characters that are in this chapter. Yeah, and to piggyback on that, I would say he's not stupid.

He's a soldier. A good one. He's a second slash third son. Yeah, he's a good soldier. He's a second slash third son. He takes orders. We've already read it in this chapter. He was born this way.

He was born to be subservient. He was born to not lead. He's, I mean, more charitably, his lack of ambition and obvious lack of drive is really present in these chapters that, I mean, at the end of this chapter, it's a huge turning point for him that all of his life he's been subservient to his brothers. And the end of this chapter, he makes a choice and says, I'm not doing that anymore. And that's the first time that Victarion decides I i could fend for myself i do not have to be loyal i don't have to suck them off every five seconds and like do their bidding for them and give them the gold like i can go get my own gold i could have done this all the past whatever 40 50 years of my life it's interesting when you say that because now I think of him then as a worse version of Barristan.

That's what I was just thinking was somebody that obeys. I was thinking of Barristan. I was so just think we're so in my brain. Get out of there. We're so connected. We're in sync. She, she,

she's back streets back. All right. Changing me. I'm tasting, but no, I'm joking. Wait, no,

you're the one tasting but am i skin changing you oh so much to uncover here yeah interesting in a way it really does make me think of some of my uncharitable barest intakes i'm sure i'd like to someday look at those chapters again i want to redo i legitimately want to redo you know we were babies we didn't know what we were doing first of all we didn't have all this context it's our first you know from this reread no i i really we've changed we've we're changed people yeah i feel like but i see a lot of barriston in him and him barriston of um you know it comes back to following those rules i mean at the end of this chapter when he decides that he's going to go there for his brother and says he's going to go there for his brother and

when he gets there and chooses to go for daenerys on his own i mean that's he he's breaking right like how can you look at people and emasculate them for leaving battle when that's what you're about to do you're going to battle for your own yeah he's fighting he's learning to fight for himself which is you know that i think about it last last episode i was like victorian doesn't have a character arc but i guess that's not true now he does i was wrong you know if he wasn't a slaving assaulting xenophobic racist basically rapist if he wasn't all those things he could almost be a himbo but he's all those things so he can't be a himbo and sorry like i said like he he sees like the fabric of everything he understands how it he understands how it all works but he's

he's too afraid to like really really dig into there and Barristan is finally kind of doing that now but he's afraid to a little bit because he's like so maybe I should have let Ares die did I do a bad thing by doing my job I don't know damn I hope I have a few more revelations by the time I'm their ages because

I'm getting worried about me well I will tell you now you're doing much better than Victarion thanks babe the ironborn had been swayed by talk of dragons and the sound of the horn Aaron says

hashtag not my king he says the drowned god favors bold men not cowards and that he will remove Euron if Victarion won't with his voice okay okay Aaron okay Aaron not cowards and that he will remove Euron of Victarion won't with his voice okay okay Eron I'm okay Eron I have my voice

the priest replied and the god is with me mine is the strength of the sea a strength the crows eye cannot hope to withstand the waves may break upon the mountain, yet still they come. Wave upon wave, and in the end only pebbles remain where once the mountain stood.

And soon, even the pebbles are swept away to be ground beneath the sea for all eternity. Pebbles? You are mad if you think to bring the crowows' eye down to talk of waves and pebbles The ironborn shall be waves Not the great and lordly, but the simple folk Tillers of the soil and fishers of the sea The captains and the kings raised Euron up But the common folk shall tear him down

I shall go to Great Wyk To Harlaw To Orkmont, to Pyke itself. In every town and village shall my words be heard. No godless man may sit the sea-stone chair. He shook his shaggy head and stalked back into the night. When the sun came up the next day, Aaron Greyjoy had vanished from Old Wick. Even his drowned men knew not where. They said the crow's eye only laughed when he was told. A lot right here in this little passage. First of all, I just imagine Aaron Greyjoy preaching his sermon, you know, praise it, praise the drowned god, he was getting into it. preaching his sermon, you know, praise it, praise the drowned God.

He was getting into it. Victarion does not understand metaphors is very plain. You know, that's something he just has never chosen to want to get into. Aaron sure did let this happen by calling that King's moot. Don't know what he thought was going to happen. And, uh, sure is putting a lot into his voice. I do love that. He's basically saying the meek shall inherit the earth yep in that last bit of the passage saying all the meek are going to rise up and inherit the earth

and if you compare this with the last chapter we talked about a little bit ago uh the chapter right before this is the chapter in the sept with the sparrow and so it's a much louder war being fought in the reaver versus the last chapter. But interestingly enough, like, again, the sparrow is a lot like Aaron here. Aaron's trying to go be the high sparrow and stir up all this shit and kind of change what's happening on the sea stone chair, the salt throne. The warfare in the last chapter is kind of simmering beneath the pages, right? Where here it's boiling in a pot. It's their own little dance of the krakens the cancer the krakens and yeah there's also so i absolutely agree that it's like the

high sparrow and talk about that in a sec but there's something you said earlier of like victorian is very strong but also kind of you know cowardly he submits to euron and whereas erin is not seen perhaps as as traditionally strong or masculine in ironborn culture he's afforded he's afforded um respect due to to religion and being a gray joy but even if he's like a weakling physically this is i think this is actually kind of brave of him, even though he did fuck around and find out that that King's boot. This is very this is very brave of him. And to stand up against his brother and abuser like good for you, Aaron. And it doesn't like all really pan out for him.

But. For a while there, it doesn't pan out for him because I do think for a while there, what he was doing actually was effective. You were talking about the High Sparrow and it's exactly why Euron, I think does fear him and capture him other than, you know, I don't know, Euron has his own strange wants

and Eren's voice and social power is in like miniature, a demonstration of the actual power of the Drowned God and therefore the faith of the seven, as you said. We've said this before, and this is very much what Feast for Crows is about in many ways, along with all the other things. People think that the faith has no – because the faith has no magic, it has no power, right? It can't bring people back to life. You can't skin change and shit but i think i the faith arguably maybe even has the most power in especially southern westeros and in some lights for most people i would even say like

could you argue that it's not that dissimilar from skin changing of the old gods when that religion is used as a form of control in that way. And Aaron going out there, he's just another exploration of Varys' riddle. Like, who do you, who do you, who does the soldier follow? Yeah, the ironborn do a great job of splitting that up here. Yeah, and Victarion's like, but me, I, wait, I'm the soldier? I am the one doing things? I have the power? The priest, the wizard, the soldier, what do you choose?

He'sosing himself. Do it for yourself, girl. Oh my gosh. Self-care, self-care, Vicky. Victarion finds himself thinking of Aaron and Baelor Blacktide's warnings too from the last chapter and of Euron's madness. Baelor also says, not my king and tries to sail home,

but Victarion captures and delivers him to euron who then has his crew cut him into seven parts for the seven gods of the faith this is such a waste of good ass i'm so mad right now this is such a very brave heart as a reward for having done that afterwards euron human trafficked the dusky woman to victorian though she had already been trafficked before by a slaver headed for Lys. Victarion says he doesn't want Euron's leavings, but Euron says he'd killed the woman otherwise, and Victarion relents.

I kind of wonder, like, does Victarion think it would be his fault if the Dusky Woman was killed as he's wrestling through the memories of killing his wife, and therefore, like, where does the guilt lie if I sent someone to kill my brother? I mean, Euron said, if you don't take her i'm just gonna kill her there's another one yeah it's that it's a manipulation that you're talking about that control it is control

even even if it doesn't seem like it that's also part of everyone's just being hurt here there's more of that that comes up because tied in right in the next passage we learn that the dusky woman comes to him with her tongue having been torn out, otherwise undamaged and beautiful. Her skin is brown as oiled teak. But sometimes when he looks at her, he thinks of the first woman his brother gave him to make a man of him. Really interesting line glossing over. And then he has the woman fetch him another skin of wine, wanting to use her again, but

finding he's unable because he's thinking about the first woman his brother gave to him. And right there is interesting, right? You have all of the kind of plots of, you know, like guys taking each other to their first strip clubs or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

or guys giving someone their first sex worker. What comes to mind for me here is that Euron is controlling Victarion's body from a young age, right? His first time with a woman was not allowed to happen organically or out of love. It was out of Euron telling him to. Whether through obvious means or more psychological means, Euron has been controlling Victarion's body from a very young age. And there's even something here that's very Tyrion and Jaime.

Just in the execution of Tysha, right? Of whether lying about whether or not Tysha had loved him. It almost has those painful feelings of what Tyrion goes through with Jaime of not knowing the truth until, of course, murdering his papa. Papa. Sorry. of course murdering his papa sorry uh it's that and it reminds me even of little of like because you're talking about the control over victorian's body even like tywin forcing tyrian to raise taisha and and that also being its own like assault and but but as you were likening it to it's a darker version of the men go out to strip club thing

it even reminds me of what Amand and Agen in Pass of the Dragon when they visited together or whatever around the brothels that's a great way to call it out this is something that's been going on

between the two of them for a while and i wonder if victorian thought he enjoyed it at first but the memory is now tainted because of how things went between the brothers or does he know if he never wanted it at all that's also true yeah Yeah. And he was forced to because it's that performance of, again, masculinity in the Ironborn culture. No choice. You have to be a man. You have to exert dominance over women. Yeah, perform. And, yeah.

Well, Vic takes the sour red that the dusky woman brings on deck he goes up deck so I'm kind of like if he was going there anyway if he was leaving this room anyway couldn't he have just gotten himself a fucking drink? Anyway he drinks half of it and then pours one out for the men who died but like literally that is actually what he does

and much of the Iron Fleet stays at the mouth of the Mander until the Count returns where they captured 38 ships though the iron board the iron fleet had lost six and then they returned to lord hewitt's town on oakenshield yes the town name is lord hewitt's town i love that it reminds me of like kingdom hearts it does it does you know just with the little town names i don't know they're silly and oak and shield of course we've talked about has a little bit of lord of the rings in it a little bit of norse in it right and i have to give you all an update i was very sick this week i'm on

chapter 10 i am on chapter 10 of the ring lord books being sick changes bitches it changes a motherfucker you know what i mean but thorin in battle uses an oak branch to defend himself after his shield shattered and becomes known as oak and shield a dwarf who appears in an old norse poem called balispa check it out read up on it read up on it i'm not a lord of the rings podcaster probably never will be unless Unless, I mean, you can, but not with me. Glossing over little miss flip-flop, sandal girl over here.

Sandal cluckade. Oh my god. Victarion ponders killing his brother again. And then he remembers that kingslaying and kinslaying are a bad thing. Then he blames Asha. He's like, why didn't she give me her votes? Balin's blood is in her, but

she's a woman. And I'm like, let's just back up a second. She did offer them if you worked with her. I take it you just do not see her having any value, so as we know. He really kind of doesn't. He he's like she's fun as my niece

and earlier we had erin and victorian invoking that they have balan's blood and that's why they have to stand up against euron because they got to be brave like like balan and we see that i mean that discussion was kind of a little bit more, I guess, about inheritance. Having Balan's blood is about that. That's why we see this here with Asha. But again, the way that Aaron invokes Balan's memory does really remind me of the Stark children drawing strength from Robb Stark's memory. And also that all of them share Balan's blood, kind of like not the way that Asha does, to be honest, because that's just not how genetics works, comes back to that A Song of Ice and Fire argument, again, of nature versus nurture, about what being from a certain family obligates you to up, but also that just because you're, I don't know, born a kraken or a dragon or a wolf or whatever, that people within a family,

they're still very much individuals, right? And that your family name does not have to be your destiny, but Victarion is kind of letting it be until the end of this chapter. Yes, he chooses, he manifests his destiny soon. Oh my God.

That's great. Who knew? So much north in these little squids they're not that far away not far asha had run away after the king's moot and victoria was glad that she did hoping she'll let a northern lord and live in his castle away from the crow's eye on yeah uh it's it's funny he can't imagine that she might like be able to find safety on her own but at least i mean he, he does, I guess, care. He's like, get the fuck out while you can, girl, good for you. I mean, you know, I'm white as shit, so I've got a lot of white relatives, you know, that think the same way, and sometimes you just gotta chuck it down to at least they care. Yep.

You know? At least they care. They reach their destination, and the wine helps to dull Victarion's headache. He would have asked the Hewitt's master to look at it, but he had been killed. Oops. Around, again, things that Asha, like, exceeds at in warfare

that they do not get is she's like, okay, well, I'll keep the lady of the castle and her servants alive so that I get service from her and them. Duh. Around the castle with a harbor reminiscent of Lord's Port, but twice as big, a bazillion kraken longships are at port, beached on the shingles or

at piers. As Victarion and the crew leave the Iron Victory, the town is kind of strangely still. It had been looted, torched, lined with corpses and crows feasting, named after, of course, the book. Survivors chase off the birds, then put the dead in the wagon for burial, which disgusts Victarion because he doesn't understand cultural competency.

How will the Drowned God find them, buried in earth, in the ground, instead of the watery falls? Halls. Instead of the watery halls. They pass silence, whose prow's eyes seem to follow him, and nearing the shore he sees a line of women and children who are about to also be trafficked. But Victarion is confused. He's like, I don't understand. We don't do slavery in the Iron Islands. Only a thrall. Bound to service, but not chattel slavery. bound to service but not chattel slavery children are born free as long as they're given to the drowned god and anyway thralls can't be bought or sold for gold only through the iron price and that all of these people then instead should be either thralls or salt wives him we only do service slavery not chattel slavery this is so weird yeah he's he's very like confused and he's like i don't understand like this is not the slavery that i know um now

uh he's saying too that you know as long as the children are converted to the drowned god and that they live through the ceremony that's the next part right obviously the drowned god you got to get the dunk and a little wet willy action going on or no it's not about that so swirly oh my god wet willy and a swirly uh to become part of the drowned god's life you got to get a wet willy and a swirly uh he means obviously the children born there as long as they convert to that religion grow up stay ironborn and alive but they got to follow that religion which this is a technique i use very often in ck2 and ck3 crusader kings the games to convert my enemy's children when they rebel against me i crush them with my

steel mailed fist i take their children to my court i invite them to court and then i crush them with my steel mailed fist i take their children to my court i invite them to court and then i put them under the tutelage of people from my culture and my religion and convert them through time and they can't do shit because they pulled a rebellion against me so take notes eliana take notes like ethnic cleansing you know yeah effective awful listen you don't want to hear about my targaryen games okay targaryen games are you're why ck2 sieve they should just they should just you know sponsor us all of them should just sponsor us uh my roommate you know he's got to hand it to me every time i play ck2 and do a targaryen run in the game of thrones mod he's like oh you're scary because i'm like everyone's gonna

have a dragon i'm going to create the ultimate dane targaryen stark child that's gonna have dragons he's like oh my god you practice eugenics i'm like no i don't leave me alone i just want them all to have dragons uh anyways effective and awful moving on that's uh that's not enough to pay for euron's lifestyle though like the regular thrall life that's not enough for euron's lifestyle, though. Like, the regular thrall life. That's not enough for Euron's lifestyle or for his goals, it seems. How do you think he got these shiny things? How do you think he pays for them and upkeeps them? It is not through the plain old boring thralldom happening in the Iron Islands.

Yeah, this is the scene in, what is it, Thor Ragnarok. Where do you think all the gold comes from? Yep. Slavery. For Euron. Thor Ragnarok. Where do you think all the gold comes from? Yep. Slavery. For Euron. Yeah, he really made it seem so glamorous to everyone. I'm like, this isn't glamorous.

You didn't, like, that's not the Iron Price. So it's really interesting that people are like, yeah, we love this when this is going against their, like, values. But anyway, the king ordered it, though. Ordered that they were going to be slavers now i guess and newt the barber is like thrones are slaves it makes no matter their men could not defend them so now they are ours to do with as we will and victorian wants to point out that it's not the old way but there's no time because now people are just thronging to congratulate him and he's happy about it for like a moment until one of them praises Euron's daring for trying to find the dragons and then Victarion shots no paparazzi and heads back to the castle and at the castle the Grey

Joy sigil is flying atop the towers the gates are burned and broken Iron Man and Euron's crew guard it yeah Victarion comes upon Jorald, good brother, and old Drum speaking quietly with Roderick Harlaw. Interesting. I've wanted to try it out. Newt hoots a greeting and wonders why Roderick is so down. They won! Roderick's like, these are rocks.

The shields don't equal Harlaw in size. We've won stones, trees, trinkets, and the enmity of House Tyrell. Newt's like, well, what can a rose do to a kraken? Highgarden, replied the reader. Soon enough, all the power of the Reach will be marshaled against us, barber, and then you may learn that some roses have steel thorns. Drum agrees, saying Lord Tarly accompanies Lord Tyrell and has heartsbane. Victarion thinks they should come. He'll fight them and take their Valyrian steel swords. He'd love if the Lannisters came as well, because Krakens rule the sea. He'd love to try fighting the Kingslayer or the Knight of Flowers. That was the sort of battle he understood. The Kinslayer

was accursed in the eyes of gods and men, but the warrior was honored and revered. That stood out to me, right, of how Victarion is interested in also like, you know, Loras's reputation. He's quite young to have such a reputation and be high regarded by someone I think like Victarion, who takes a lot of pride, as we can see in his fighting skills. But also especially that he wants to fight both Jaime and Loras, considering that Jaime in this book, that he and Loras are actually very similar people. He sees a lot of himself in how Loras is growing up.

And also considering that Victarion is dealing with this moral dilemma of kinslaying and kingslaying as his desires, you know, know regicide and he doesn't really seem to have anything he doesn't hold it against jamie being a king slayer right like when he thinks jamie's name and king slayer in a way like it almost sounds to me like as this like cool title of respect as opposed to an insult when he thinks it he's kind of jealous yeah i don't know like if that's like really there if i'm reading it into that but i feel like it's there i think he's kind of a little jealous of it because he did the thing that he doesn't know how to do yet oh good point and well yeah i mean that's like ultimate disobedience right like he's doing like especially when we think about

barrison's story too and in comparison breaking his vows yeah Roderick assures them that they'll come which is why they sent Ravens Newt thinks Roderick is a nerd with milk blood but Roderick gives zero Fox Roderick is such a great voice of reason in this chapter against all of the idiocy going on because he sees the truth of it all that they aren't enough people to hold the reach right like you're on sorcery that's different they don't know about that but they aren't enough to hold the reach when the roses and lannisters return on land their power won't keep this one's for show this is totally a battle for show it's a fake hollow victory oh interesting because his his ship is victory but uh yeah iron i i love roderick but that's such a great point right like that none of this is

gonna hold euron's willing to sacrifice everyone for his like strange whatever his fucking goal is big giant blood transmutation circle vibes and i i just realized as we were starting this chapter earlier i was like oh roderick the reader victorian the reaver oh i love that i didn't even think about nicely done yeah but next next chapter he'll be the iron suitor it's not as fun but whatever whatever it's fun this one and we love roderick an ironborn feast with people decked out and plunder is already in progress like left-hand lucas codd and quellen humble who upcycled some tapestries into cloaks or german botley who's wearing pearls and garnets over his lannister breastplate which is i i think this is actually a look though sounds very cool andric the unsmiling wears rings and then comes in with a woman under each arm and the captains are eating off of silver platters then suddenly newt amazing yeah right suddenly newt's tune changes wondering like wait how i don't understand how

come we didn't get any loot but we did all of the work and victorian's like we have the glory and newt's like glory is good but gold is better. And here is Victarion trying to convince himself right now that his cultural values hold more weight than material impact. That's all he's got in the world. It's hard because it's like getting mad at the shift manager, right? Instead of the CEO. Yeah. Like, don't take it out on Victarion. But you are on the wrong team.

That's what Newt decides. He's like, I'm on the wrong fucking team. Jump ship. Yeah, he does. He does. Victarion shrugs and he says, Euron promised you Westeros where you're going to have gold, but he's hungry.

He could have sat on the dais with Euron, but Victarion would rather not. He chooses to sit with Ralph the Limper, captain of Lord Quellen. He says, and Lord Quellen says, Victarion should have an island for that victory. Hotho Harlaw said, the knights to have gray shield, which is confusing. The knight faced off against all Grimstone in one-on-one battles. Some yielded, a seventh man failed, and finally

on the septon, finally the septon decided the gods have spoken and given up the castle. Hotho thinks that's fine, though, because then he'll be the reader's heir, musing upon being Hotho the Humpback, Lord of Harlaw. was Balon's eldest son had been best friends back then and I also think I don't know it feels like we get most of the characterization of like Ash and Theon siblings through their uncles POVs than theirs which makes sense Theon like doesn't even remember them but that's interesting there is a lot of characterization of them in here and it's we get a tiny bit of the uncles but you can tell the gardening on them right like there's a little bit of you're on back in clash but not a lot yeah good point the feast was good because we are a food podcast the wine was of the best and there was roast ox rare and bloody and stuffed ducks as well and buckets of fresh crabs the serving wenches are dressed finely in wools and velvets because it turns out

they are Lady Hewitt and her ladies. The daughters and good daughters, some as young as ten years old. Lord Hewitt is at the dais dressed up but tied to the chair with a radish silencing him. It's not funny. Not laughing. She's not laughing. I'm not laughing.

It's a fucking cartoon. It's like a pig, you know. I actually thought that when I was like, feels very cartoony. Hewitt's bastard daughter, Valia Flowers, who used to wait the tables and eat with servants, is sitting upon Euron's lap. He's giving her a bunch of hickeys and saying,

then he says, Valia's worried about the ladies' clothes, so they must all disrobe, even the crying ten-year-old. Not so cartoon now. No, definitely not. We have this line of, He shames Hewitt as he once shamed me, the captain thought, remembering how his wife had sobbed as he was beating her. The men of the four shields oft married one another he knew just as

the ironborn did one of these naked serving wenches might well be sir talbert sari's wife it was one thing to kill a foe another to dishonor him victorian made a fist his hand was bloody where his wound had soaked through the linen i'm like dangarion is actually more worried about Lord Hewitt's shame and dead Cersei's honor because of like maybe his wife being among them than he is about the present crying women and girls who are forced to be naked. It's the only way he can relate, right? Like he has no capacity for any sort of sympathy or empathy towards women. We're seeing that every single day here every chapter at ggchq ggc and some letters in view hq exactly the extended cinematic universe hq definitely he can't sympathize or empathize for them he can only understand what it would be like to be in hewitt's seat or in sari's seat and being you know cucked in all ways possible all the time and this is

basically it makes me it's kind of twisted cinderella shit right like if valia flowers if cinderella was like decided to go evil instead of good and then also it kind of reminds me of like what if ramsey was born a woman and what if dumb eric was also a woman and what if you know others that we know like what if this is like some mega femme ramsey shit of what he would do you know like i want them punished if he was a woman who had no real power but suddenly had an opportunity to have power yeah probably i wonder i wonder if he would have like found i guess some other way like obviously as you said right like ramsey born as a woman would have much less societal power much less power than he did unless euron showed up at his doorstep. Yeah. Freeing her.

Ramzet. Oh my god. Ramzet of stone. Honestly, I think Ramsey could also be, in my opinion, a woman's name too. Yeah, actually. I didn't think about that. It's got a ring to it. I don't think I've met a Ramsey IRL first name.

I know someone with a last name Ramsey, but not first name. I don't think I have either. I don't hope to. I just think of like Ramseys, which is very different, and a pharaoh. So the captains are now chanting Euron's name again. Euron gives a speech saying he's given them a taste of what it means to take all of Westeros. He goes, we shall feast before the fall of night. And, oh, I get it. It's because, like, the name of the book is, like,

about feasting, and he's the crow's eye. Oh, George, having so much fun. Also, just to get a little grand here, I also thought, of course, of night falling. You know, like, the long night. Especially because soon he'll chat with Victarion

after dinner and have that allusion to darth uron from blood raven right and flying yeah having fly flown as a child so i uh i think something else is stirring in a foot and he thinks he's gonna bring the long night maybe huh we don't know we don't know anyway he makes harris lord ofield, Andric Lord of Southshield, Merrin the Lord of Greenshield, and Newt the Lord of Oakenshield. Newt is wary. Victarion thought that the lordships would go to Euron's men, like Stonehand, the Red Oarsman, and Lucas Codd.

A king must be needs be open-handed, he tried to tell himself, but another voice whispered, Euron's gifts are poisoned. When he turned it over in his head, he saw it plain. The knight was the reader's chosen heir, and Andric the unsmiling, the strong right arm of Dunstan Drum. Balmark is a callow boy, but he has Black Heron's blood in him through his mother and the barber. Victarion grabbed him by the forearm. Refuse him. Newt looked at him as if he had gone mad.

Refuse him? Lands and lordship? Will you make me a lord? He wrenched his arm away and stood, basking in the cheers. And now he steals my men away. Victarion thought. He could have been your Davos, Victarion, but you don't got shit to give. Just glory. And you thought that would be enough.

Just glory. Yeah, and that doesn't pay the bills. Yep. Everyone can see him doing glorifying things. Gloriful things. But does that put food on the table? Iron on your arms? No. Nope.

Nope. I mean, I guess it could have exposure i don't know he like he sees it right he sees the plan and i thought that was very astute of him but he doesn't you know yeah he's not ambitious as you said you're on demands wine from lady hewitt to lead men in a cheer for the new lords and then we have this line of, There is no wine so sweet as wine taken from a foe. Someone had told him that once, his father or his brother Balon. One day I shall drink your wine, crows-eye, and take from you all that you hold dear. But was there anything your aunt held dear?

Big-a, now my straw reaches across the room and starts to drink your milkshake i drink your milkshake there will be blood there actually will be real there really will be for real for real it also though reminds me of like tyrian from a clash of kings who is also another younger brother just like victorian uh going i will hurt you for this. I don't know how yet, but give me time. A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid. But, I mean,

it is a little harder, you know, for Euron, and it's a good question. Like, what does Euron hold dear? Yeah, I'm feeling a lot of Tyrion in these Victarion chapters. Like, Tyrion's... Victarion? Oh my god, Vic...orian oh my god vic tyrian has a nice that has a nice ring to it doesn't it hold on vic tyrian uh sorry it just sounds good together i don't know uh yeah i'm feeling him a lot i'm feeling his mental state a lot coming through

for where he is in dance through victorian it going to be interesting to see them on a page together, right? Someday. And regarding what Euron holds dear, personally, I want to quote a great American film. I want to quote some cinema myself since you just did some cinema. And I'm going to quote Speed Racer 2008, which I highly recommend you all see. I saw it recently with a couple of patrons and some friends for an early birthday gag. It was a blast. But I want to quote the great villain, Mr. Royalton, and replace everything he said with boat terms.

It's a great speech. You've got to watch the movie. But that's what grieving is about. It has nothing to do with boats or captains. All that matters is power and the unassailable might of money that's what Euron cares about power, power is power that's what he fucking cares about, that's it

that is it how do you take that from Euron? I wonder Euron says that they'll sail again tomorrow so they need to prep by raiding these lands the wounded will help Ro but others will remain here to support the new lords.

Torwald and Red Oarsmen will bring back provisions, and they're going to hunt dragons. And Rodrag dares to ask, when? Alright, since the dragons are all the way, like, over there, they are far away, and autumn is soon. Euron has a plan for this, right? It's, I won't go. I'm sending someone else, because who cares if

he dies? Oh well. Ha ha ha. Good plan. He warns of hazards along the way, wondering if the first storm would scatter them. A smile played across Euron's blue lips. I am the storm, my lord. The first storm and the last. I have taken the silence on longer voyages than this and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the silence on longer voyages than this and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria. Every man there knew that the Doom still ruled Valyria. The very sea there boiled and smoked and the land was overrun with demons.

It was said that any sailor who so much as glimpsed the fiery mountains of Valyria rising above the waves would soon die a dreadful death, yet the crows-eye had been there and returned. Have you? The reader asked so softly. Euron's blue smile vanished. Reader, he said into the quiet you would do well to keep your nose in your books I just

I just love Roderick questioning him and this entire passage about the trappings of power but also like I mean you're on speech here it is iconic you know we can't not put it in power is power Lord Roderick my gosh um that's what he said yeah the first storm and the last and i'm like i bet he that's another one of those lines he

rehearsed i'm the first lightning round and the last unassailable might of money victorian pushes that you're on didn't answer the question of when okay and euron then talks about inflation and how slaves cost more now so they're just gonna sell them and buy provisions and roger pushes back on that too and he's like wait we're slavers now for dragons that no one's seen like this is not part of our culture and thank god roger said it even though victorian like wanted to and didn't and others agree like ralph the limper and quellen humble and froleg the strong who says that they should just take golden dragons from high garden and alvin suggests the mander

and red ralph stonehouse suggests old town the arbor and some fruit metaphor he's like we'll just take the fruit and jordan says why take the fruit when you can take the orchard and some fruit metaphor he's like we'll just take the fruit and yarn says why take the fruit when you can take the orchard and i just thought this was kind of fun with the fruit and the trees and you know playing on this idea of the forbidden fruit of knowledge you know the tree of knowledge language around here yeah and coming back to the tree that is the opposite of the weirwood right the black and blue trees out east that make his lovely little lsd he likes to take his shade of the evening that's great considering that's the the negative version of the weirwood as we've discussed before so yeah kind of fun they're both still very knowledge but corrupted

it yeah he's corrupted the tree of knowledge i think that the undying did that themselves pretty well honestly and he's into taking that corruption. Yeah. Rad Ralph says they want the Arbor, and people join him in cheering for that. Amidst the shouting, he leaps down and grabs Thalia. Victarion watches him and sees it like he's fleeing, like a dog, and that his hold on the sea stone chair isn't as secure as he thought, since the men don't want to go to slaver's bay.

These are honestly apt. The last little bits of Victarion in this chapter are kind of smart like he's actually really he's getting it he's like oh you're on actually is nothing like he's fake to show newt that victorian isn't mad about him taking the lordship he drinks a wine with him yeah which okay it is kind of sweet in a way and i'm glad that he he took the time to because it is his number one henchman. And he knows he has nothing to give him. I mean, that's part of being Euron's brother and losing to Euron for kingship. Newt doesn't have options.

He can't be mad at him. All Newt has is reaving and being good at reaving. Like that's what's gotten him this far, just like Victarion, right? So punishing him for being good at it and holding him back would only grow more resentment and cause him not to be loyal to Victarion. Again, one of the sad, smart things he actually knows he has to do. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great point.

I appreciate that Victarion is happy for his friend. He saw that it made him weaker in that moment and that it is a risk because Euron is like 40 chessing it. him weaker in that moment and that it is a risk because like Euron is like 40 chessing it but he's like I mean you got to support your friends even if you don't support your wives I guess uh sunsets and people do the finger dance and Lucas Codd rapes one of Lord Hewitt's daughters on the table and her sisters scream and sob and I don't know why this is called out here is it like meant to show us that it's normalized in in Ironborn culture and victorian doesn't do anything about it or is it meant to show us that like victorian is like perturbed by this display is he only perturbed by this display because it's

in service of neurons like shit or is it because he actually like there's a part of him that thinks like it's bad when harm is done to people but then that would mean having to acknowledge that like women are people and that what he's doing is bad actually but i i'm not sure i'm not really sure yet what the scene is doing other than i mean it could also just be george being like look at how terrible the ironborn is i don't know i think it's there's a little bit there though like because i think victorian is at that precipice of understanding of being able to break through and he's not going to no like i think that much is fucking clear he's not gonna break through but he's at that point where like it because i mean

this is the fork in the road this chapter is the fork in the road how do you deal with your brother and looking upon this you're like this is wrong i know all of this is wrong like this isn't right this isn't usually how we do it why is he going against the old way and he does choose to break but not for that that's not why he breaks fully but also it's like i don't think he's again ready to confront why he's breaking why he necessarily is breaking because it's that back and forth the coin flipping in his head where he's like no one's as a curse as the kinslayer and he's like no my brother was chosen king though and he's like but no one's as a curse as the kinslayer. And he's like, no, my brother was chosen king, though. And he's like, but no one's as accursed as the Kinslayer, though. And it's just like he can't choose it while it's spinning in his little brain.

Yeah. Yeah, it's... It's hard to go against, I guess, your culture. It really is, though. Yeah. Euron's son calls Victarion to his brother. And Victarion's drunk now, remembering his dead wife, blaming Euron even though he did it. He follows his nameless nephew, all of them are, leaving the

sounds of ironborn raping, pillaging, partying behind. Euron had taken Hewitt's bedchamber, where Falia lies naked on the bed, snoring. It's gonna be me soon. Euron turns Victarion into his therapist saying, When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly. When I woke, I couldn't. Or so the maester said. But what if he lied? What if? What if?

Euron suggests, maybe everyone can fly, but they won't know unless they try. Like leaping from some tall tower victorian's like i wish he would leap out of that fucking window though he like lol i think did he say it i don't remember he might i think he might i think he says it he's sick of his shit he's like then leap out that window yeah which you know nice good for him good. And... If only it had worked. And also, like, you know, speaking about leaving from some tall tower, A, I mean, maybe you do have to do that because, like, technically, in a way, that is kind of what Bran did. He was thrown, but, like, you know, tomato, potato.

And B, is that why Euron chooses, like, maybe to attack Oldtown? Like, does he think that... I think so. Yeah, is this a riddle about the High Tower? Which arguably probably does have people practicing magic beyond, you know, all the people doing stuff in the Citadel. Is he looking for something in the High Tower? Or is he, like, is he gonna try to jump from the High Tower? I do think that whatever his big battle will be in the Winds of Winter, it'll probably be taking place from he'll be on top of the high tower uh versus possibly marwin on the tower across from him right at the citadel because the citadel tower is exactly like across from

there so it'd be interesting to see marwin have a standoff with him and probably lose with them on each and of course i don't know at the same time like i could see him yeah taking the high tower taking malara and lord high tower and like locking down them magic bitches and taking their shit and if they are magical and if they have shit happening up there who's to say he doesn't just show up and say thanks for the head start his you know this the two towers uh this might be the return of the two tower king but then isn't but marvin's gone now he's like it doesn't mean he won't come back in time he could i mean he probably won't he might you know he's got he's got people who know how to use the stars so if i can navigate maybe he can make a wind.

No, I think you're onto something, though. I've definitely been thinking I'm gonna throw myself out of the window. Holy shit. Hope I don't fly. Yeah. I think I've definitely thought there must be a reason.

And all that magic surrounding that area, maybe he's on to something we don't know we won't know till we get that book honestly you're on you're on tells victorian he wants the world and offers a cup of wine but victorian refuses and tells you're on to cover himself because of course he comes out with his cock all swinging. He's like, here's a fur loincloth in my cock. I just finished banging my bitch. Euron sits, and he does cover himself up a tiny bit. Yeah, so, you know,

Victarion refuses the forbidden fruit, right, in terms of the wine, in terms of, like, I don't know, any of these fucking things. And, you know, him refusing it shows, you know, his way of, it's like a metaphor right of him staying innocent and within the confines of his ways like his religion by innocent i mean like not you know doing whatever the fuck you're on is doing because victorian is not innocent he's guilty of a lot um you're in things about dragons as basically pearls before swine for

the ironborn and Victarion's like yeah I mean like I don't know but like the grapes there they're they're real all right the grapes in these vineyards like we can eat them and turn them into wine and Euron says okay but like dragons bring woe and then he tells a story about this mirish wizard that he killed for failing to birth dragons like on his timeline and then he reveals that cragorn who blew the horn that horn they were talking about earlier died with charred lungs and victorian's like okay but like fine show me the dragon's egg yeah liar he doesn't say that but euron says oh i had a tantrum and threw it in the sea. And then maybe Roderick was right.

A big fleet could never go all the way to slaver's bay. Ah, but you know, it's just too long and too perilous, but I, I do think only the iron fleet could do it. It's like, wait,

but that's Victorians fleet. Yeah. I love the theory that radio Westeros did that that of course that he sold the egg to a faceless man to kill balin which feels pretty real right but there's also kind of a theory floating around that's been around forever that he uh had one of his wizards you know he slew his wizard before he could catch the egg that he's like so impatient and flimsy which is also really funny the former is probably true i don't know who knows what's happened maybe we'll get the truth of it someday but the idea that euron couldn't hatch an egg or couldn't be patient enough or couldn't figure it

out love it it's kind of funny because like if anyone's willing to do the things that it would take to hatch a dragon egg whether it's killing someone or killing a family member or something i think you're on could do it he definitely seems capable of all this and i do think it's i think it could be both like i do believe that he sold the egg for for the faceless men thing that's possible but also he still could have like killed the wizard you know before he sold it when he was like I don't know well trying to hatch it was too hard so it's gotta be worth fucking something yeah yeah

Euron offers another drink to Victarion with strange thick black wine Victarion looks at the one Euron didn't offer thinking it looks a little bit more blue than black and tries a bit and then spits it out good for you he wonders if Euron meant offer, thinking it looks a little bit more blue than black and tries a bit and then spits it out. He wonders if Euron meant- I know, right? Euron's trying to fucking dose him.

He wonders if Euron meant to poison him, but he says he's opening his eyes with shade of the evening. Jesus Christ. He found a cask and carth with spices, silks, sorcerers, and a story. One presumed to threaten me, so I killed him and fed him to the other three they refused to eat of their friends flesh at first but when they grew hungry enough

they had a change of heart men are meat baylor blacktide's warnings are echoing in victorian's head right now like with big sirens kill bill siren going off uh rip baylor still miss you uh men are meat meat house men men house meat men are the houses of meat meat is housed in men made of flesh and so he begins to scream oh that's the house wait i'm sorry that was the gingerbread man that was the gingerbread man joke my god it's the same thing is he made of house or is the house made of which i guess like meat house man style this makes you're on the handler uh but i want to come back to him dosing victorian there because i'm sure he's uh uh we we see this isn't the last time for him trying to dose people with this stuff that's like a big you don't just put lsd on someone's tongue dude yeah that's like pretty messed up. That's pretty unethical,

but I think it's probably the least of the unethical things that Euron has done. Also, if it works anything like LSD, I mean, listen, this is like some MKUltra shit. Like, Euron is literally pulling MKUltra moves every goddamn week, I feel like, with his brothers. It's really fucked up like so you're gonna dose him a bunch and brainwash him further what are you gonna do after you dose him i'm scared for victorian that does seem like his goal that does seem like what he's trying to do you know by like having him drink weaken him and yeah i mean like it does leave you vulnerable there for a second like i thought it was kind of funnery funny you know the the meat house man

the meat men are meat thing speaks to brand's chapters a little bit like that the wizards refuse to eat their friend and i'm like but y'all were trying to eat denarius like who's fair she would taste better who's fair game to eat no i don't think she would have tasted good at that time she was like really starving from walking through the desert their friend is a better meal and he's been living her genes taste good that's probably true genes taste good i guess that guy you gotta understand she's got dragon blood you know like that taste that's like the wagyu a5 like experience i guess so because like that guy now that i think about it he's like you know yeah sometimes you want dry aged stuff but like i think he's a little too aged from you know he's jerking now

probably i guess well also just they're also eating her like not for nutrition necessarily is the other thing right like they were cannibalizing her for mother of dragons magic purposes where here it's out of hunger and not out of magic so it's uh it's an interesting transition they do have magic in them too anyway but like yeah yeah thinking of the trees obviously yeah but also i don't know if also is this like a strange a little bit of a an homage to that i think it's a twilight zone episode or maybe it's not twilight zone but one of those kinds outer limits or something where they go and the meat thinks and the meat talks and it's like two aliens like who look like people they're in a diner and they're talking about us we're the like the humans

that because like they're like i don't know robot aliens and they're like the meat thinks yeah uh it's they're made out of meat it is terry bisson it it was a short story that was like adapted uh cinematically and i don't know during that black and white arrow shit yeah i'm trying to remember who adapted it it's a short story it was turned into a small video by stephen o'regan okay that's what it was stephen o'regan i'm not sure i can't tell you that that's all i've got for you. Hmm. Well, we'll never know. Yeah, I definitely see the brand connection, though, to what you were saying. To what you were saying.

Not just the Stephen O. Reagan's meat. Oh, I think... Meat is man. Yeah. The big point is they will eat A5 hockey beef. Targaryen beef. It's delicious. Nom nom nom.

Euron says he needs a wife and that he needs heirs so now it's victorian's job to go get that girl get that get that a5 wagyu go get that girl victorian thinks i used to have a wife i loved i should beat yuran to death yes yes you should victorian that is the i'm sorry honestly actually it would save a lot of people like grief if victorian had just killed his brother instead georgia r martin the most you know yeah the most grief think of how much think of all this plot line that he could have just not written victorian just killed his brother instead victorian's like you have sons you're on which all of us keep forgetting about yeah but you're on doesn't think they're till this read through to be honest 100

percent you're on doesn't think they're fit to sit the sea stone chair nor the iron throne he needs the last of her line the fairest of them all with silver gold hair and amethyst eyes and a5 wagyu beef victorian says why should i for love for duty because your king commands it and for the sea stone chair it is yours once i claim the iron throne you shall follow me as i followed balan and your own trueborn sons shall one day follow you. My own sons? But to have a trueborn son, a man must first have a wife. Victarion had no luck with wives. Euron's gifts are poison, he reminded himself.

But still. The choice is yours, brother. Live a thrall or die a king. Do you dare to fly? Unless you take the leap, you'll never know. Euron's smiling eye was bright with mockery. Or do I ask too much of you? It is a fearsome thing to sail beyond Valyria. I could sail the Iron Fleet to hell if need be.

When Victarion opened his hand, his palm was red with blood. I'll go to Slaver's Bay. I... I'll find this dragon woman and I'll bring her back. But not for you. You stole my wife and despoiled her. So I'll

have yours, the fairest woman in the world, for me. The Sleep of Faith, this is like the worst iteration of the lesson of a spider verse that i've ever seen yeah right i mean in true victorian fashion to beat his brother daenerys a woman no longer has a will of her own uh he just imagines he can take the mother of dragons the queen of slaver's bay the last of the dragons lmfa oh laughing so hard uh you know and he's out here not afraid to wear armor on his ships during battle good because you're already wearing the frying pan the skillet that you're gonna roast

and dip shit i do find it interesting going back to euron's sons uh who like we said so present and i feel like i forgot all about them i love i find it interesting they're not up to par and he doesn't want to try to legitimize them in any way that they're all children of concubines he wants a pure dragon child and it makes me think going back to what you said about the high tower and his bastardized understanding of visions and what he's seen perhaps he's practicing his war baby making eugenics here because he has some sort of bastardized version of the prophecy right like he has some sort of interpretation of azor ahai of the long night and he's going about it completely the wrong ways it seems yeah he's

going about it the wrong ways but like something's gonna happen from it right like it's gonna work it's gonna unlock something lord knows what and by lord i mean in the wrong way yeah um yeah and it as you said right like victorian just like can't fathom that you know denarius might not want to be claimed. And it seems like Euron doesn't either. But at least I guess Euron has something to offer in terms of being a king and power, whatever. But I don't know how this is all going to play out. And yeah, what is he doing?

Is he just after the dragons, right? Or does he just want... Everyone seems to just want Daenerys as a targaryen not even like to have sons necessarily just like the legitimacy they're just like what a great idea for me to have a targaryen like dragon lord wife just like as arm candy and it's like that's literally not what she is it's funny because they don't really perceive the dragons as real threats they just think they're pieces of power

some of these trappings of power when it's like dragons are not movable like that you might think they're small now but they're still something to be kind of fought against already right like they are growing and they are eating finally whatever they want most of the time at least one of them is now

shit so so Finally. Yeah. Whatever they want most of the time. At least one of them is now shit. So. Technique? So. Yeah. And I think we should think of them as probably the size that they would have been given five years time. Because that was the. That was.

That's kind of what I do. Yeah. That was kind of the goal. Semantics. You know, semantics. Yeah. I'm just letting that one fall for George. I just imagine everything with that little extra little bit of a oomph for him.

Yeah, exactly. Meet him in the middle. Meet house him man in the middle. Baby, why don't you meet house me in the middle? Oh, God. Ah. Well, what a blast of a chapter. Actually, though. We're setting east

with the Zs next week from History Westeros. Can't wait to return. Setting east. Yeah, we are. We are. And yeah, that'll be in April again, because we are taking a different journey this coming week with Sailor Moon Crystal season one. Yeah. We're going to use those stars to navigate, my friends.

Use them to navigate. It's very different from the Victorian chapters. chapters actually like incredibly so in every single way we'll be pointing it out don't worry well if you want to keep up with when that next episode uh for sailor moon or when that next episode of the disease comes out you can with by following us on social media at twitter.com slash girls gone canon that's c-a-n-o-n and if you have an email short or long that you would like to send us you can at girls gone canon at gmail.com make sure you're subscribed to us on a podcast platform near you whether that is spotify itunes google play stitcher a-cast iheart radio pandora audible amazon podcasts you name it we're on them somewhere that we definitely always are is on patreon.com slash girls gone canon where

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I have nothing to say. Goodbye. Goodbye.