Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 2 Eddard II/III

Episode Date: May 9, 2018

Eliana and Chloe embark on a journey through each character's POV in ASOIAF, starting with everyone's favorite honorable patriarch: Eddard Stark.  We start the episode with Ned searching to find the man he once knew in Robert Baratheon in Eddard II, and end the episode with Ned's discovery that that man is lost to him in Eddard III.    intro by Anton Langhage.   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric. Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/   Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: https://liesandarbor.tumblr.com

Hello and welcome back to the Girls Gone Canon podcast. My name is Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Twitter dot com and at Liza and Arbor on Tumblr. You can also find me as drunk a swath history on Twitter and YouTube. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining again this week. And I am Eliana. And you will probably know me as Glass Table Girl from Reddit or from Maester Monthly. And you can find me on Twitter as Arithmetic. It's linked somewhere. Don't worry about it.

We are so happy to be back. And thank you so much if you listened in to our inaugural episode of NED1. We got a ton of great responses. We're really excited to keep going with all of NED's chapters. We're doing a point of view reread. If you haven't tuned in yet, I don't know what you're doing. Press in your corner, go back to the main page and get the first one down and come back to us. So that means that the first episode, because we are doing a point of view reread following one character at a time, the first episode is an overview of Ned's character arc and the Ned 1 chapter.

And today we're going to be covering Ned 2 and Ned 3 from A Game of Thrones. You know, the only book where you find ned povs but yeah we laugh because we're saying we're going to cover all of ned's chapters but it's really just the first 15 ned chapters and then there's nothing else the first and only 15 spoiler alert he dies at the end this is a reread he dies at the beginning at the beginning we've been asked are you going to directly incorporate chapters surrounding these povs like how are you going to kind of navigate uh and our answer is no we are not going to do that but every episode we are going to do a quick recap of what you've missed in the last handful of chapters between Ned chapters. So far, what we've missed between Ned 1 and Ned 2 is in Jon 1, Jon attends the

feast at Winterfell, and he speaks with his uncle Benjen Stark and also with Tyrion Lannister, and both conversations lead him to decide on joining the Night's Watch. Chronologically speaking, Ned's first chapter comes directly before the Winterfell Feast, and we don't get to see it from his own point of view, the Winterfell Feast. And then after that, we have Catelyn II, where Catelyn receives a secret, secret letter in secret, secret code from her sister, Lysa Arryn, claiming that the Lannisters have murdered Jon Arryn. Gasp! And convinces Ned to go to King's Landing

and become Hand of the King. Arya won. Arya has a less than satisfactory needlework session, one of her last of that kind, may I add, and she watches the boys practice with swords in the Winterfell yard. And then in Bran 2, that pivotal chapter where Bran climbs the towers of Winterfell and sees Jaime and Cersei Lannister having sex, and then hears them also speaking about the dangers that are lurking against his father when he goes down to the capital of King's Landing.

And then he is thrown out of the window by Jaime, entering a comatose state. After Bran won, we get Tyrion won. And Tyrion tries to parent Joffrey, advising him to pay sympathies to the Stark family after Bran's fall. But he is met with Joffrey's awful attitude. He slaps the prince, which the Hound warns him will not be misremembered, and then Tyrion joins his family for breakfast, telling Cersei and Jaime, the thing they really want to hear right now, that Bran Stark

will probably survive. Jon too. Jon makes his way around Winterfell, saying his last goodbyes before he goes on to become a man of the Night's Watch. First he says goodbye to Bran, and then to Robb, and gives Arya the parting present of a needle of her own. And finally, the last chapter between Ned I and Ned II is Daenerys II, in which Daenerys marries Khal Drogo. And as daylight escapes, they ride on horseback and eventually consummate their marriage. In Daenerys two, in many ways, it leads right into Ned two. It leads into the political climate that we're about to kind of jump into. Lots of interesting things from that chapter that carry over. Eddard two, Lord Stark rides for the capital with longtime friend-turned-king-turned-employer

King Robert. Galloping over ghosts in the Barrowlands, he learns that as much as King Robert would love them to, reflecting on good times are not enough to sustain this friendship or the realm's well-being. When Lord Eddard and King Robert clash on matters of state, Ned worries this standard may last as Hanura's hand. King Robert has convinced Ned Stark to join his startup, and on the way down to King's Landing, they stop over in the Beryllons. And the Beryllons are the seat of House Dustin, which is a little north of Saltspear, and it takes them about eight days, probably, to reach the Beryllons from Winterfell. Everywhere Ned goes, he rides with his ghosts. That's like a

common theme in his chapters, and the Barrowlands aren't any different. In A Dance with Dragons, we learn that the bitter cold isn't just from the north in the Barrowlands, and that Lady Dustin is a huge source of it. As Ned is about to awaken, he is, you know, slumbering very groggily, and Alan, a member of the household guard, shakes Ned awake because Robert wants to discuss the matters of the state. I think it's important to highlight Alan during this. I don't think that Alan gets enough of a shout out, you could say, in posts and podcasts because Alan is a guardsman from Winterfell and he dreams of being a knight. This is such a common theme from Winterfell.

Everyone there, Bran, Sansa, Alan, they dream of knights and maidens and something bigger, something more. And Alan's plot contributions should not go overlooked. He ends up being more important than half of the real knights we do meet in retrospect. We learned that from Arya in A Storm of Swords that Alan restores order during the battle at the Mummer's Ford the real knights we do meet in retrospect we learn that from aria in a storm of swords that

alan restores order during the battle at the mummer's ford and he allows a third of the force to escape including thoros of myr at their head which goes on to form the brotherhood without banners fully and goes on to kind of get our vengeance arc that we're currently in there we should get to know ned's household and his guards because ned cares about them as we see later on he like knows all of them by name absolutely it's something we will totally get into in our bran reread definitely and our catalan reread probably you learn ned was not like other lords he was not like many other lords in the kingdom. He ate with his men. You know, he always kept men at his table. He rotated men at the table every feast, every dinner, every night,

try to get to know his household guard and know even the lower born people. And this is a little different from Robert, who now he wakes up Ned and asks Ned early in the morning to ride ahead of the main party so that they can speak a little privately. So he's talking to Ned about how he, you know, he just wants to run away, shirk all of his duties, and go live out this boyhood dream, this fantasy. And by boyhood, I mean literally, like, he wants to return back to an earlier time. And in response, Ned says, but we have duties now, my liege, to the realm, he wants to return back to an earlier time. And in response, Ned says, But we have duties now, my liege, to the realm, to our children, I to my lady wife, and you to your queen. We are not the boys we were.

You were never the boy you were, Robert Grumble. That's my Robert voice, I guess. I like how your Robert voice is actually higher than your regular voice. I just want to put that out there. Is it really? We were never the boy you were, Robert Grumbold. Oh, damn. I thought I was going down an octave, but I guess not.

I'm sorry. I can try this again. Put on my best Liana Stark impression. Liana Stark at the tourney of Heron Hall. Never mind. Everyone, Chloe has ideas let's let's let's talk about this chloe again this is highlighting that robert is always running away ned faces things head on as head on as he can and i do think it's a lot to do with

kasana easterma and stefan baratheon die on the way back from trying to find rhaegar a bride in the east which they fail at doing but they do find a great fool Patchface who he comes to learn of in the story and honestly Robert, Stannis, and Renly all of them never really grow out of the ages that they were when their parents died they're stunted from their parents death. Robert grows up in the Eyie with Ned, like Eliana mentioned last episode and went into with some John Aaron exposition. And he just never leaves being age 16, being that boy that ran the halls of the Erie with Ned, that banged and fought and brandished swords. And, you know, just he never left that womanizing 16 year old jock phase. I think it's a lot to do with his parents' death.

He never had a certain closure. He never had that finished parenting from them. He was sent away to be a ward of John Aaron and just never grew up. And I think that's an interesting idea that he never stopped being a 16-year-old jock. Like as someone on Twitter said, someone who I guess listened to our first episode,

thank you, Shattered Jack, said that Robert peaked in fancy lad school. Another interesting parallel that that brings up is the idea of Sansa. As we know, eventually we will get into her point of view reread, but she is thinking, why couldn't I have a better sister? She thinks that when she has Margaery in her life, thinking, why couldn't Arya be more like Margaery? And she always thinks, why couldn't have I had a good sister? Robert, instead of his brothers, chose Ned as his brother instead of his other brothers. And as Ned is finding out, that brothership comes with a big duty, just like Sansa finds out that being Marjorie's sister isn't everything it's cracked up to be.

That being Marjorie's sister isn't everything it's cracked up to be. Robert then actually brings up in conversation Jon Snow's mother, quote unquote, air quotes. Robert brings up Jon Snow's mom and Ned gets very cold. He gets very cold. And we're about to have some discourse, some big discourse. Eliana and I are for the first time on our podcast. Everybody brace yourself. We're going to fight about this, but Ned tells Robert that it was

Wyla. I personally say Willa. And I say Wyla. This is our discourse. I say Willa. I don't know, like Willa Cather, you know? So since you said this to me about an hour ago, since Eliana

told me that she pronounces it Willa, which changed my world, first off. I didn't think I would have since you said this to me about an hour ago since Eliana told me that she pronounces it Willa which changed my world first off I didn't think I would have to deal with this in our relationship but Eliana said it was Willa and I could see it it's just that Y throws me off and I get that it could be a and it could be a other anyways so who is Wyla Willa Willa Wyla Willa. Willa Wyla. But why Wyla? You know, why Wyla? Okay, done. This is what people tune in to us for. The discourse. This is for our discourse. Very in-depth.

Very in-depth. Wyla was the wet nurse of House Dayne, as we come to learn through future chapters. We learn this in Arya in A Storm of Swords in Arya 7. No, I'm not 7, but thanks for asking. Wet nurses in Westeros are a woman who breastfeeds children who aren't her own, either due to the mother's health or the mother isn't producing enough milk or for cultural reasons. And they're generally used for higher born children. You're not going to see, you won't

see someone of the small folk suddenly saying, you know, my boobies aren't working and I need someone to nurse my kids. They just deal with it. And sometimes those kids probably just die. So there's your happiness for the day. People that have been wet nurses in the series, some examples are Gilly or Griselle or Old Nan, Garen of the Orphan's Mother, and Tidus Lannister's First Mistress. Actually, those are examples of other wet nurses through the novels. But Ned doesn't want to talk about Wyla. He claims he dishonored himself in the sight of gods and men by dishonoring Kat. And Robert comments, Ned, you hardly knew Kat. And most men in this story that we meet, whether through point of view or through not, would say it was war, you know, you bang,

you get bastards, whatever, but not Ned Stark. Ned Stark has lived with this crippling guilt 15 years, and he missed his chance to trust his wife enough to tell her about Jon Snow. As Chloe was saying, Ned becomes very cold during this. He shuts down, Robert asking him more about who Willa is, and then Robert replies, well, my, you know, Robert voice, well, I'll not press you if you feel so strong about it. Though I swear at times you're so prickly, you ought to take the hedgehog as your sigil. That was terrible.

Thank you, everyone, for humoring me. So a big part of Ned's storyline is that idea of the hedgehog. I thought this was interesting because there is a thing called the hedgehog's dilemma. It's a metaphor that's been referred to by philosophers such as Schopenhauer and even like Freud, the father of psychology, not necessarily useful for psychoanalysis in some ways, but useful for literary analysis. And in this metaphor, it's the idea that hedgehogs have to move closer to one another to stay warm, especially when it's cold, but they can't be too close because when they're too close, they prick one another to stay warm, especially when it's cold, but they can't be too close because

when they're too close, they prick one another, they hurt one another. So they have to find what's actually just the right distance for them to have intimacy, to stay warm, but not hurt each other. And you can see this a lot in the human relationships in general, and you see it manifesting in A Song of Ice and Fire. And this really clearly embodies the relationship that Ned and Robert have. These are two men who have been friends for so long,

and especially Robert, who alone in King's Landing has been longing for a friend, for someone's companionship. And he had Jon Arryn for a while, but Jon Arryn was kind of like a father. But he hasn't seen his best friend, whom he went to war with they went through hell together for all these years and those years have forced them to grow apart and

to grow into different kinds of people for ned especially with all the secrets that he holds he's been having to find just the right distance with all of his relationships and now what he wants of course is to be able to reconnect with his best friend but he has to also tread lightly he's trying to avoid hurting robert with his words and he's also avoiding hurting himself uh by protecting some of these secrets and the people that he cares for whether that's his children or even john even in winterfell you know where he's experiencing this warmth of his family and his wife his secrets will always be this wall that's going to keep him a distance from everyone as even in Winterfell, you know, where he's experiencing this warmth of his family and his wife,

his secrets will always be this wall that's going to keep him a distance from everyone as much as he wants to be close to them as their family. There's been a lot of talk in the fandom of, for example, I know Not A Cast. If you guys listen to Not A Cast, great podcast, give them a look. What's a Not A Cast? I've never heard of it. listen to not a cast great podcast give them a look not a cast i've never heard of it and poor quentin made a great metaphor about john snow being part of winterfell and just of you know the springs the trees different parts of winterfell being different people from winterfell but ned is the gates ned is the gate of winterfell he is what closes it off. He is what keeps people out. He is just this big block of ice surrounding those walls. He is the walls that keeps it in. And this is exactly the opposite of Ned wants to do. He wants to meet and look his duty that is what ned stark would be about but keeping this relationship afloat with this which i love the hedgehog metaphor the hedgehog metaphor

is perfect for it because that is what ned is doing exactly robert did robert laid it out there good job robert robert lets ned read a message from varys, the Master of Whispers, and Ned immediately worries because Ned is on edge. He is prickly. He is waiting for something to go wrong because he is holding on to this big bag, this suitcase of secrets. A quote that I really love. A quote I really love from Nikki Sixx, the musician, actually. Sometimes in life, when the baggage gets gets too heavy you have to put it down and ned does not get the opportunity to put that baggage down ever his baggage accumulates it's

like rolling a snowball down a hill it just keeps growing and growing there's more and more he has to keep track of and ned worries that this message from varus the master of whispers will be about liza's accusation that we hear about in Catelyn 2. He finds it concerns Daenerys and Khal Drogo marrying, actually. From a different character's second chapter. What? He's completely offended that it actually comes from Jorah Mormont, who is a northerner that sold poachers to a Tyroshi slaver, and he fled the king's justice. to a Tairoshi slaver, and he fled the king's justice.

And Robert actually mentions Khal Drogo has 100,000 men in his horde. And because there's so many, and of course the Dothraki have that reputation for being fierce warriors, Robert and Ned end up having this debate about how much of a threat is this actually to Westeros? Should we be concerned? And of course it's a serious news and real, but how concerned should we be all the way over here in Westeros? Robert says that ships can be found in the Free Cities and that in many of the kingdoms, especially as we learn later on, Dorne and the Reach, there are houses that would not hesitate

to join a Targaryen invasion. We've been learning, especially in Ned I, the background of the rebellion, and it was a civil war. It split the country in half, and there are houses that supported the Targaryens called Loyalists. As we learn that Dorne and the Reach are the kingdoms that would join, look at where we are right now.

We are sitting in modern A Song of Ice and Fire as we all sit chronologically at the precipice of there is a Targaryen, quote unquote, coming over and people from the Reach are going to abandon for his side. People from Dorne are going to abandon for his side. People from Dorne are going to rally to Aegon Targaryen's side. So Robert was not wrong. People are sitting there waiting to join an invasion. Yeah. The king shifted uncomfortably in his saddle. Perhaps. There are ships to be had in the Free Cities, though. I tell you, Ned, I do not like this marriage. There are still those in the Seven Kingdoms who call me usurper. Do you forget how many houses fought for Targaryen in the war? They bide their time for now, but give them half a chance.

They will murder me in my bed and my sons with me. If the Beggar King crosses with a Dothraki horde at his back, the traitors will join him. And, you know, he asks, do you forget how many houses there are? Do you know how many? No, Robert, I do not know how many. Please tell me. Or not, Robert.

Maybe someone else. There is someone who can tell me how many Targaryen loyalists there were. Oh, you're talking about me? I don't know. Was that my cue? Wyla? Of the loyalist side

during the rebellion, we had House Catherin who actually switched to the rebel cause after the Summerhall defeat. Randall Tarly cut off his head and sent it to Aerys during battle. Connington, as we know, stayed loyal to the crown. As we know, because John Connington is

very gay and won't shut up about Rhaegar. House Derry, which comes into play in Ned 3. House Fell, who switched to the rebel cause after the Summerhall defeat also. House Goodbrook. House Grafton, who stayed loyal to Aerys instead of his liege, John Arryn. Mark Grafton was slain by Robert during the taking of Goldtown during the Rebellion. House Grandison, who switched to the rebel cause after the Summerhall defeat. House Martell, Mooton, Redwine, Rowan, Riger, Targaryen, Tarly, and Tyrell are the known loyalist factions. And the rebel faction that we get is House Arryn, House Baratheon, House Bolton, House Caffron, House Cassell, House Dustin, House Fell, House Frey, House Glover,

Grandison, Greyjoy, Hightower, Lannister, Mormont, Reed Rizwell, Stark, Tully, and Wool. Now I'm really self-conscious behind pronouncing these two because of you so I'm like, oh no, is she going to argue about more? Is she going to be like, I didn't like the way you said this one, are we divorcing? No, I was just like, that good brook. That good brook.

So that gives you an idea of how many people staunchly defended the targaryens some of these maybe we can anticipate them rearing their heads again uh in the winds of winter but we also have this hinted at from other characters even within the game of thrones so robert's saying that there are people who still call him usurper and this actually ends up reinforcing a point that viserys makes he is saying that there are people who still support the targaryen cause and are secretly sewing banners for them uh i'm not sure how many people are actually sewing banners but

we can for sure say that there are people who are harboring the Targaryen cause. And the idea of Robert seeing enemies and that paranoia, I think in some ways it's kind of interesting because it parallels Viserys' own paranoia. Which I think most leaders in general or someone who is hoping to lead should have that paranoia. Which I think most leaders in general or someone who is hoping to lead should have that paranoia no matter what, especially in this kind of Game of Thrones with something that is so temperamental. As Sansa says in her Feast for Crows chapter, one false move and I die. I slip, I die. That's the Game of Thrones. If you make the wrong move, you die. And we see that these books are obviously proof that that continues that plot. There probably are folks sewing Targaryen banners, maybe not necessarily sewing.

However, we learn even through two point of views we get introduced to, people are in hiding from the rebellion. People want to join a Targaryen's cause. John Connington is a point of view that comes to us from exile from the rebellion that everyone thought was dead but he has been in hiding this whole time Barristan goes into hiding just to join the just cause of a Targaryen what Aerys did in the rebellion to Lord Rickard and Brandon let alone the other atrocities he committed is awful and hundreds of years of Targaryens obviously didn't prove that all

Targaryens are great but the fraction that was good is what the people remember and Robert taking the throne and the bloody warring that went on is also remembered and is not remembered as good. Targaryen loyalism goes very deep in this story and Robert's acedia on the throne has not exactly helped people to love him as a king especially when the only reason he won the throne in the end is through Lannister's support and trickery, much like Lann the Clever tricked the Casterlys into giving him the rock, quote unquote. It's not necessarily the best defense for people to love him as a king. It's not, as we get in Cersei chapters, you know, the last good memory of Robert she had was when Robert and Cersei walk out onto the balcony and he says, look, my lady, how they smile for you.

And there's crowds of people applauding and cheering and whooping for King Robert and Queen Cersei. That was the last time Robert was the king, the sparkling king. He hasn't really improved since then. Along with all that, we also have the Blackfyre Rebellion. So it's not just people who love the Targaryens so much. There will of course be people who choose their sides based on the idea of opportunity. We see in the Sworn Sword that there were some smaller houses that

supported the Blackfriars out of the prospect of being able to gain more land and power. And we could definitely see that in the upcoming second dance that George has said will occur in the Winds of Winter. Maybe it'll occur in the Winds of Winter. He said it's going to occur. I think it'll be a good crossover of Winds and a little bit of a dream a little bit of dream we'll probably see some of it still but robert was very during the war he was charismatic robert baratheon as much so as he could be and the houses that i listed like grandison and katherine that changed sides during the rebellion ro Robert beat them. He beat them at Summerhall. They went to Summerhall in hopes they could beat Robert, but Robert beat

them. And not only did he beat these people into submission, but he lifted them off their feet, took their hand, raised them off their knees and said, hey, fight with me. It'll be fine. It's cool if you join my side. And they did. They said, you know what? You beat us so bad and you have such charisma. We're going to join your side because you're the winning side now. And when he took over from the Targaryens, I mean, that was such a shift in the kingdom that completely 100% changed who got what lands, who was the warden of which faction of the realm, Who got what lands? Who was the warden of which faction of the realm?

Who had the East, the West, the South, and the North? Which Ned, after this, correctly deduces and assumes from Robert that he has promised Warden of the East to Jaime Lannister. Because again, even over the last 15 years, houses change, people move, you have different characters. Jon Arryn is dead. He's no longer the Warden of the East. And Robert needs someone who is loyal to him. Someone he can have good control over, good power through.

Yes, so far as he thinks. So far he thinks he has control over Jaime Lannister, definitely. And something overlooked in this realization and deduction is that not only does Ned recognize putting the Warden of the East title on Jaime Lannister puts half of the armies in the realm into Lannister hands he also notes via Robert's sheepish response it's kind of his last chance to prove his friend isn't sleeping with the lions and it confirms his friend is kind of lazy and has given into the corrupt political system swarming him that he has nothing to fight against. And he's just saying, so be it.

This is how it is. I didn't get the girl. I'm the king and I'm just going to let it slide. He has such a poor opinion of Jaime Lannister from running into the throne room and finding Jaime having murdered the king he was sworn to protect. He's uncomfortable with giving such a powerful position to a boy that he found sitting atop the Iron Throne that he was supposed to be defending but is instead chosen to claim in the way that ned describes jamie sitting on the throne which he says he had no right to he has like a really interesting little uh speech about it and then he goes i can see him still even his sword was gilded he was seated on the iron throne high above his knights wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion's head how he glittered i think george rr martin does a lot of great dialogue

and there are some really great lines i think that this this is just my personal opinion this line's a little awkward ending it with how he glittered it it feels like a speech and when you're bullshitting with your best friend maybe i'll do a speech just like for funsies but i'm not actually going to launch into a whole uh monologue and so because of that it kind of breaks that wall for me um and feels a little bit like an artifice i agree with that because it does seem a it seems a little out of character with ned and even if we don't have the exact context of tone i think that might be what we're missing is it a sarcastic how he glittered but it has an exclamation point it's an exclamation that is exclaiming how he glittered and it comes out just comes out a little corny. It comes out a little much,

especially for Ned's character, Solemn Ned. Ned who doesn't speak up. Ned who quiets himself in the gaze of Robert Baratheon. And even after this, Robert almost chose more of Ned's kind of behavior. He said, you know, he suggests assassinating Daenerys, and Ned kind of shows up very unsurprised to this thought. Ned's sort of in some ways experienced this behavior from Robert before. As we discussed in depth in the previous episode regarding Eddard I, this ends up really highlighting that conflict and difference between Ned and Robert. But here it's through showing the sorts of people that they would rather be dead.

Again, we have just learned that Daenerys has been married to Khal Drogo from Jorah Mormont. And while Robert says the person he would rather be dead is Daenerys, whom we have just come out of her point of view. So we know that she doesn't really feel like a threat in many ways. She's just a scared little girl who's been sold to a man she doesn't know. We know that she's just an innocent child. Whereas Ned, he would rather that the person sent to die would be Jorah, a dishonorable man who's, he sees him as a sellout, that Jorah has no honor. He's going to sell it either to slavers or even to be a spy. He doesn't even have loyalty to the queen that he's pledging himself, sorry,

not queen at that time, to Viserys at that time. And he's showing a lack of loyalty to anyone but himself. So this shows that the values that Robert and Ned hold conflict with one another. But another thing that's really interesting about this is that, again, this chapter comes straight out of Dany's wedding, where we've just met Jorah Mormont. And he seems like an okay guy. He has gifted Dany

books from the seven kingdoms and Dany finds this to be a gift that she very much values and finds herself starting to trust Jorah especially as Jorah starts translating different aspects of Dothraki culture for her he becomes a trusted advisor but in this moment right after meeting Jorah Mormont we are warned about him as a reader through Ned and through Robert, through this message. It tells us how we should start feeling about Jorah Mormont. It turns out that he's a spy. And because this point of view is framed through Ned's own narrative, and we identify with Ned as one of our protagonists, we trust his moral code.

identify with Ned as one of our protagonists. We trust his moral code. The language and the way that Jorah is framed here should color any of our later interpretations and interactions that we see between Dany and Jorah. It leaves that taste in your mouth in further chapters. It makes you go, oh, wait a second. Everything Jorah does from that moment on has a sour taste to it. The bear is not a trustworthy bear. Not a trustworthy bear. I mean, most bears you can trust to be bears, but not Jorah. No, sir. It leads to further contrast of Ned and Robert as we've been kind of following through the last chapter and this chapter and Ned continues to remember the feud that he and Robert had over Tywin presenting Robert with Elia and Aegon and Rhaenys and Ned called it murder where Robert called it war which again as you were

saying Aliana reminds you of Ned would rather save the innocent child who hasn't had a chance to create war to create bloodshed to hurt other people daenerys where jorah who sold people into slavery whether they were good or bad sold them into slavery and didn't follow the honorific code he would rather that person take the heat in the fall but that's not how royal blood works as ned realizes and learns and it took liana's dying originally to reconcile the two we learn in this chapter ned thinks on how they hadn't spoken before that that he was furious with robert he was angry with robert before liana's death but when he goes south and he goes to the tower of joy and he comes back with liana's bones and her dead body that's when when Robert and him reconciled.

Their relationship and friendship was ramping up to a breaking point right up until that moment. If Ned hadn't gone to the Tower of Joy, if he hadn't found Liana, if he hadn't brought back her broken body, their friendship would have been kaput and Stark and Baratheon would no longer have an alliance. And that's a little bit of a big deal. I'm not big for what if scenarios. I don't like them because they're not going to happen, obviously, because they're what ifs. But what would happen then with the North fight for independence before the Greyjoy Rebellion against Robert? Would Robert and the Lannisters have beat the North into submission, had them on their knees. What would have happened? Would Lyanna still be alive with Rhaegar's baby? It's just a lot to digest in terms of this is a big deal that this is what led them to reconcile,

and that Ned just shoved any prior pains and anger he had at Robert down over the grief of his sister's death. And Robert and Ned's friendship is really just one more thing sustained by the lies Ned has had to tell. It is to keep that homeostasis. That is what Ned has had to do, to lie to keep the homeostasis. And it's interesting that what's held Ned and Robert together, they've been through so much in this war, but that means that all these years later,

especially because the first time we see Robert, the first thing he wants to do is go see Liana in the crypts. What's tying this friendship together is grief. Grief and ghosts. We see Ned use courtesy to calm Robert's tantrums in these chapters, and we learn courtesy is not just a lady's armor. Her name was Wyla, Ned replied with cool courtesy and I would sooner not speak of her. Just the coolest courtesy to be able to stop Robert, to turn him off and Ned is the only person that can control Robert. We learn Cersei can't, we learn no one else can but Ned is the only person that knows Robert enough to use machinations against him, even subtle digs in words. He tells Robert that he has no tie with Lannister to slaughter innocents, which actually reminded me a lot

of Sansa. Sansa is ever her father. In A Clash of Kings especially, we start to learn that, that she carries this stark tradition of calming Baratheons with courtesy, softening the rage that ensues. So I found that very interesting in this stark tradition of calming Baratheons with courtesy softening the rage that ensues so I found that very interesting in this reread thinking of Ned saying well you're no Tywin Lannister because Tywin is not a good guy we have learned this we know this personally the reader does but Ned knows this from the start we learned this from Ned that Tywin is that jerk that joined the last second in the war and everyone says well he's kind of an a-hole but he brought all the armies and got you on the throne

he is kind of an a-hole yeah Tywin's a major a-hole it's another nod to that symbolism we talked about in Eddard 1 that the gold and the black of the Baratheon banner the gold overpowering the black the seed is strong that very Lannister gold overpowering

the black the seed is strong that very Lannister gold overpowering the black that idea of the Lannister's being dishonorable we really start to see how Ned views that in this chapter because this chapter sets up a lot of again Ned's values and his characterization throughout the series and the fandom we think about Ned as being this character that's very much tied to honor, and I think a lot of the roots of how that comes through in the text is in this chapter, both with people gifting him that trait by saying it aloud about him, but also through his constant condemnation of what he considers dishonorable acts. Robert, earlier when we're talking about quote-unquote Willa, but really Jonso's mom, says,

She must have been a rare wench if she could make Lord Eddard Stark forget his honor, even for an hour. And then when Robert is trying to get Ned to open up about Jon's mother, Mor. Ned says that he dishonored himself in Catelyn. When Ned is describing Jorah Mormont's crimes and why Jorah deserves death as a penalty, he says that his act of slavery dishonored the North. He talks about how Jaime Lannister partaking in the act of Kingsling was dishonorable because he was sworn to protect that his king and then later on when he's talking about that conquest at large and Jaime's single

act within that entire rebellion he says there was no honor in that conquest and Robert shoots back the others take your honor what did any Targaryen ever know of honor go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon's honor this entire chapter is a discourse on what is honor and how it matters to Ned an important quote that I feel the need to bring up in this is another thing that we hear uh we will be going into it when we are stuck on John for about half of a year. But I will talk about it now is Maester Amon speaking to John in John 8. Maester Amon talks to John and says about his father, about his father's honor. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty

against the feel of a newborn son in your arms or the memory of a brother's smile? Winds and words, winds and words. We are only human and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory and our great tragedy. And I think that quote is incredibly important here because not only is it an important quote in regards to Rhaegar and Lyanna and Jon's creation, but mirrored against Robert saying, go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon's honor. We are doing a character only read through, but of course, these different chapters and characters and point of views are in a discourse with one another and themes run through all of them. So we can't divorce the fact that this quote that you just read takes place within the Game of Thrones and that when we think about honor, it's making that universal statement of love and how people will weigh that more than honor and it's obviously as you said responding to ned's character and what his choices will be and his choices are of course that killing a child would be unspeakable

robert responds to ned reiterating killing a child would be unspeakable with the fate the Mad King gave your father and brother and what Rhaegar did to Lyanna is unspeakable. And I think there's something interesting going on here because as people have brought up before, Ned asks, what did we go to war for if not to stop the murder of children? Because he and Robert in many ways were children when Ares called for their heads. Ares, as we know, was mad. He was crazy and he had a bloodlust. Part of that, of course, was a lust for fire. was a lust for fire. Ned says that Robert's lust for or desire for the deaths of Targaryen children is in self it was a madness in him. So this starts to sort of create a question of what is madness? Is madness just wanton cruelty or is it also just something that drives you that this illogical drive uh within people and that

fear that his friend maybe not the same kind of mad as aries but has succumbed to a sort of madness in his own years as a king is it madness or is it madness for security i I mean, we hear Ellaria Sand say in A Feast for Crows, when does it end? Blood for blood, when does it end? You know, can I take your father's skull to bed? Will it sing me songs? Will it hold me? No, that's not what killing is going to do. That's not what vengeance is going to bring me. It's not going to bring these people we've lost back. It's not going to make things even. It's not eye for an eye. And Ned is saying, when does it end, Robert? When does this war truly end? Ned has a lot of thoughts of how Jon Arryn would have reacted to this news. We see a lot of Jon Arryn in Ned. He internalizes a lot of what he would do. Robert asks what he would have done, and we take Ned's answers mostly as concrete, as accurate, especially with Robert's concessions when he finally begins

to step down from it. And it's interesting that I guess we take Ned's answers to be what Jon would have done, and Robert agrees. We don't really know what Jon would have done. We've never met him. Later on, Robert says that he sleeps fine and loses no sleep over the acts of the lannisters in the rebellion and again this raises a contrast with ned who does seem to have trouble sleeping the toll of the war has taken so much from them robert is also in many ways sleeping metaphorically while Ned is always thinking about these but also trying to shove them down. Robert on the other hand is closing his eyes to all the atrocities that have bought him this throne and the things that are going on in his realm. Along

with all that he's closing his eyes to the threats that the Lannisters pose. Speaking of tolls that the war took, Ned is very much so PTSD ridden from this war. He experiences these PTSD tics constantly throughout the story. Promise me, he thinks, promise me. Much like we see from other characters later on suffering from trauma, like John Connington with the tolling of the bells constantly or Jamie focusing on Moon Boy for all I know or Tyrion with his constant where do whores go and the thrum of the crossbow. It's kind of weird because I feel that Robert's version of that is Lyanna. I mean Ned's version of that of course is liana as you were saying but that promised me but like roberts is just i don't like the way it is roberts as robert says the gods be damned it was a hollow victory they gave me a crown it was the girl i prayed them for your sister safe and mine again as she was meant to be robert that that's nasty. It's very different because Robert's trauma from the war

is Liana. In my dreams, I kill him every night, says to Ned. You know, that's Robert's trauma is Liana. But as we learn later in later chapters coming up at the tourney, Ned tells him, you didn't know Liana. It's a different Liana that Robert sees. Robert sees Liana as this shadow figure that would have fixed all of his problems. This is highlighting Bobby's true nature, Robert's throne, his betrothed, his, his, his. But it also highlights quite a sadness and emptiness in Robert's story. It's a hollow victory. This is not what Robert wanted. He wanted Storm's End and the Lady Liana and the family he could no longer have that he lost in those waters. He wanted his new brothers, Ned and Brandon. A running theme I love in these

books is characters wanting something and getting the exact opposite of what they wanted. Robert being a prime example. Now he has the throne and nothing he actually wanted. Sansa wanting a chivalrous knight and a glamorous life being subjected to abuse at the hands of her monstrous prince and faking family members. Margaery, Cersei, etc. Stannis wanting the throne by rights, but forced to face the snowpocalypse and zombies instead, becoming the truly just king, you know.

It's interesting how george plays with that and never gives these characters exactly and of course robert rides away after all these making ned unsure of all the changes that he has to make his hand if he can't even convince his best friend of the right thing to do uh open his eyes and help him take care of himself how is he going to move and rule a whole kingdom along with that uneasiness with the way this chapter ends especially with the events that are going to transpire soon and we're going to get to uh the chapter sets up a lot of the uneasiness that that ned feels about the lann All of them, like all the Lannisters in general, which maybe you can kind of think about, like, is this how Robert feels about the Targaryens?

But it's also interesting to note that this takes place in the context of the chapter that follows Ned right after this. And we've also had another Tyrion chapter before this. And these really humanize these characters and introduce us to them in some ways uh especially tyrian of course and it it makes you question if ned's preconceived notions about the lannisters you know these obviously deepen his distrust about them which leads him actually falling to prey uh to the confirmation bias and believing that they're the ones who killed john erin he already is predisposed to distrust him and believing that they're the ones who killed John Aaron.

He already is predisposed to distrust them because of their acts during the rebellion, and this causes him to believe that they very much could have murdered John Aaron, especially when told by a quote-unquote trusted source, Liza Aaron. He isn't looking at that situation objectively, and it makes him vulnerable to have those thoughts preyed upon by someone like Littlefinger and of course all of the ways that he feels about the Lannisters are going to compound in the events of the next Ned chapter after Ned 2 on the way to Ned 3, before we get to Ned 3, we are going to go over our lightning round of what we missed once more between Ned 2 and Ned 3.

And here's what we have. We have Tyrion 2, where Tyrion and Jon Snow venture north to the Wall together. Tyrion is almost cruel to Jon, telling him he must resent his family and that the Night's Watch isn't exactly a noble profession. Take that, Tyrion. His internship's the most important internship in the world. Look at him now. Start from the bottom. Okay, anyways.

Catelyn III, where an assassin is sent to kill Bran and Catelyn fights off the assailant until Summer can kill him. And Cat becomes convinced that Bran was pushed out of the tower because he was, and we know he was. Which, of course, again, deepens that conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters before leading into the Sansa chapter, where Joffrey, in typical Joffrey fashion, is a little butt. Joffrey, in typical Joffrey fashion, is a little butt. And of course, Sansa 1 is the chapter leading right up to Ned 3.

It's a very important chapter that begins this conflict. It helps ramp up the tension that you feel when you open the pages of Ned 3. And Sansa goes riding with her perfect chivalrous prince, Joffrey, on the King's Road, and she comes upon Arya and Micah, a butcher's boy, play fighting in the Ford. Joffrey torments Micah and Arya attacks him. This chapter directly precedes the next chapter with Ned in so many ways, besides actually preceding it, and really, and we start with Ned 3. In Ned 3, Arya and Joffrey are called upon in front of the royal court to give their very different stories of the events of the trident a baratheon and a stark with differing views of what happened to the trident where have we heard that before when ned's eldest daughter betrothed

to the prince claims she does not know what happened queen cersei condemns a dire wolf to death. The closest wolf to kill is Sansa's wolf lady. You turn the page, and after the preceding events in the Sansa chapter, time actually skips forward about like four days to this Ned chapter. Here we learn that Arya has been missing during those four days, and we start back up when they finally found her.

Ned has scarcely slept an hour during this entire four-day period, and you can see why. Of course, it's that his daughter Arya is missing in the Riverlands, but again, a Stark missing in the Riverlands. It's just like losing Lyanna all over again. It's her running away. Something has happened. The language that uses for it is, he had been so heart sick and weary, he could scarcely stand. Not only is this him losing his daughter in the Riverlands, this chapter very much tells us how much Ned sees of Lyanna and his daughters. When he looks at his daughters, not only when he looks at Jon Snow, does he see his sister's face, daughters when he looks at his daughters not only when he looks at Jon Snow

does he see his sister's face but when he looks at his daughters he sees that little sister that he could not protect and from that we're going to see a lot more of how that manifests itself throughout this chapter but first we get a little more world building we learn that this

whole thing is taking place at House Derry who among all of those other houses that we mentioned before, and Robert Baratheon's whole thing about people calling him usurper, House Derry fought under the Targaryens. So when this entire, like, super dramatic event is occurring, it's all under this sort of atmosphere. They were not welcome visitors. Sir Raymond lived under the king's peace, but his family had fought beneath Rhaegar's dragon banners at the Trident, and his three older brothers had died there, a truth neither Robert nor Sir Raymond had forgotten. With kingsmen, dairymen, Lannister men, and Stark men all crammed into a castle far too small for them, tensions burned hot and heavy. The king had appropriated Ser Raymond's audience chamber. To break that down, not only are they unwanted, not only is Ser Derry a Targaryen loyalist, he fought for the Targaryens. He would probably still fight for them.

Now he's forced into fighting for King Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters and forced to allow them. It paints such a cramped picture. Most of the action that transpires is during this trial. Contrasts a ton with the previous two Ned chapters. All of our Ned point of views have been private interactions between the two, with the two of them trying to understand the men they've become and try to fit those puzzle pieces back together. But by bringing this relationship into public with a problem between their kids, where the eyes are actually on them, they become tested.

Ned is struggling to stay connected to Robert, struggling to see if this is the king or his friend, but he gets the performance, the king, the first of his name, a stranger to him. This problem that's occurring between Robert and Ned's children is this question of childhood and culpability, continuing some of those themes about Daenerys and whether or not she quote unquote deserves death. Especially as Arya elaborates on the situation and Sansa who has already given the true account to Ned as we find from

Ned refuses to answer the question. The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers Cersei Lannister said. Robert I want her punished. Seven hells Robert swore. Cersei look at her. She's a child. What would you have me do?

Whip her through the streets? Dammit, children, fight. It's over. No lasting harm was done. The punishment that Robert sarcastically puts forth to Circe kind of ties into Circe's walk of shame. While they're not saying that they're going to whip Arya through the streets, Circe's punishment is her being paraded through the streets. But also we see that when it's not a

Targaryen, maybe Robert can show some compassion for children and this idea of innocence. Moreover, it is a nod to the brotherhood between the two that Robert would kill a Targaryen, but when it's positioned as his best friend's kid being put in harm's way, it makes him stop. And it's interesting to think about how blood runs deep in this world. Targaryen blood, we kill them. Stark blood, wait. The previous two Ned chapters were focused on that relationship between Ned and Robert, and we also know Ned and Cat's relationship through Cat's point of views. While this relationship occurs in private, the relationship of royals is public. The story expands and shows the relationship between Robert and Cersei in front of the entire room.

The way Cersei goads him when he says, quiet woman. And then when Cersei, in response to Robert not acting the way that she wants, she does a little bit of manipulation on him. A little bit. Just a tad. The king I'd thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down. Robert's face darkened with anger. That would be a fine trick without a wolf.

We have a wolf, Cersei Lannister said Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph This serves as such characterization for Cersei Which the first moment we see her is fleshed out in her coldness Her making Ned kneel in the snow Not just kneel and kiss her rings, but in the snow. It turns to ashes in our own mouths, a sickening, triumphant whisper of, we have a wolf. And the man Ned once knew resolves. He gives in. Damn you, Cersei. The man he once knew is gone.

And it becomes a cornerstone of Cersei's characterization as one of the first big moments with her and heralds back to our last interaction with her, where she tells Tyrion and Jaime that she does not like the wolves, and she will not be having them come south. Cersei makes her own game up as she goes, a very Lannister trait. It's her rules and her show. watching this whole drama unfold with ari disappearing and sanza hearing that lady has been condemned it this entire chapter is just trauma central and reliving all of like ned's trauma for him so ari disappearing again and sanza weeping i promise i promise about saying that she can show that lady is a good girl a good wolf and all these questions about promises that language about i promise i promise of course reminds us of ned's again tick of promise me promise me and there's all these different ideas of unfulfilled promises and broken promises promises that you'll never

even get the chance to keep and because of that will continue to go unresolved within Ned's story. An important part to me is the language that George uses in these moments of Lady's condemnation to die. The king looked at them for a long moment, then turned his eyes on his wife. Damn you, Cersei, he said with loathing. Ned stood, gently disengaging himself from Sansa's grasp. All the weariness of the past four days had returned to him. Do it yourself then, Robert, he said in a voice cold and sharp as steel. At least have the courage to do it yourself. Robert looked at Ned with flat, dead eyes and left without a word, his footsteps heavy as lead.

Silence filled the hall. From this moment on, Ned quite literally disengages himself from Sansa and King's Landing. He avoids her. He barely shows up to the King's turn, the King Hand tourney for her. He doesn't attempt to give her courtly intrigue or lessons. He leaves that to Septa Mordain, even to her learning from watching Cersei, and he kills her wolf, which haunts him to the end of the book, which we'll get more into. Ned cuts his daughter off from him, from being a Stark. Her sobs, her promises to behave and be good, and that Lady will be good, and she won't be like Nymeria, like you'll see.

Ned sees the weak side of Lyanna in Sansa, the moon-eyed she-wolf, mad for harpists, mad for crown princes, sobbing in her deathbed, where he almost favors the stronger side of Lyanna he sees in Arya, the swashbuckling, independent she-wolf, and almost favors that as a more survival trait and nurtures that a little bit more, where Sansaa he just doesn't seem to know what to do about it and doesn't want to keep that connection after he's killed her wolf. And in the moment where Ned goes to execute Lady I think that the way that entire scene is written is really interesting. The way that it's framed and actually delivered and what information is conveyed tells you a lot about Ned's character from a compositional aspect. he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter,

the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick gray fur. Shortly, Jory brought him ice. When it was over, he said, choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell. All that way, Jory said. Astonished. All that way, Ned affirmed. The Lannister woman shall never have the skin.

So what I think is so key about the way this scene is written, we go from shortly Jory brought him ice to when it was over, he said. We don't ever actually see the beheading occur. The writing itself skips over the traumatic part, it skips over the ugly parts of that death entirely, and this is completely an embodiment of the way Ned's point of view is structured and the way that his thoughts are delivered. The text doesn't actually explicitly reveal all the difficult portions such as the things that happened with Liana or the things that happened in moment in the war it shows us that Ned himself doesn't want to linger or actually see and acknowledge those difficult parts of his life he has to repress these thoughts if

he's ever going to be able to live like a functional person Ned's chapters doing that and repressing these thoughts are very much so something we begin to see in Sansa in A Clash of Kings like with the unkissed for example during Blackwater uh certain parts of Sansa's narrative becomes very much so like her father's in this that she has to repress these thoughts in order to live at court, in order to survive the beatings that she endures and all of the different things that happen to her. So it's a very interesting setup for the reader that we get used to Ned doing this. And then we launch right into Sansa in A Clash of Kings, where she has tons of chapters to do this.

But that is exactly what Ned also always does. We never hear about the truth of Rhaegar and Lyanna. We don't hear about what happened to Ashara Dayne in his point of view. He shoves these things down because if he can ignore them and never bring them up, they didn't happen. And he doesn't have to deal with that pain of promises and failures. It's also a convenient way for George to hide the truth from us readers. Wrapping it up with a nice trauma-ridden bow means we are left to dwell on exactly what happened to make him this way, even though it's right there.

The Lannister woman shall never have this skin is such a bone-chilling important part, in my opinion, because in one sentence, Ned blesses Sansa's plot. It's his character saying that Sansa will do what he could not do. In a way, the Lannister woman shall never have this skin, which we know right now, Sansa is out of Cersei's grasp. She finally escaped King's Landing. It wasn't in the way that all of us wanted it to be, probably. It's not the safest, happiest way, but for now, Sansa is out of Cersei's grasp. There's a line we'll get to in Eddard IV that sets kind of the tone for the rest of Ned's chapters about the guilt he feels from killing Lady, where he thinks, was it guilt he was feeling or fear? When Jon had said to him, you know, they found the pups in the snow.

Your kids were meant to have these pups, my lord. He had killed Sansa. He begins to think, like, what have I done? What have I done to kill my daughter's wolf this of course compounds with the guilt when Catelyn reveals to Ned what happened in Bran's chambers and because of the way this story is structured we've actually already had this chapter if you're reading it chronologically and not through a character read-through so by this point in time we've seen the effects of having a wolf for the Stark kids of Summer saving Bran. So we know that the wolves are crucial for the Starks' protection. In that way, when Ned executes Lady, it creates that sense of irony and that sense of deep loss for the Starks.

deep loss for the Starks. Not only does Ned execute and condemn Lady and condemn Sansa to her life at this moment, he also condemns himself in a manner of speaking. I mean, that was a metaphor, especially with him thinking in the sight of the gods, what folly have I done? You killed your kids. Woof that connection.

The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword is done in the truest sense here. By watching Robert lie dormant, by repressing his emotions, by allowing Sansa to be included in this political world, Ned has condemned her to lose her wolf. Whether literal or figurative wolf, from that day forward, she loses her wolf. She loses that magical skin changing Stark connection that all of the kids have. She becomes the Stark child farthest away from the family. Not physically, of course, but she becomes more separated than even Arya in that moment. We'll definitely end up going more into this as we go on in Ned. And of course, completely, we will envelop ourselves into it when we reach Sansa, which

at this rate spoiler alert looks like early fall if you're interested we will be hitting Sansa finally. Sans timber. Sans timber. When Ned's head rolls on the ground that is the moment of clarity for Sansa's character. The moment she pulls the wool off of her eyes and realizes the world she's living in. For Ned, it's him begging Robert, staring, using what he can against him. It's Ned cradling his sobbing, shaking daughter in his arms to his oldest friend going, this is my brother. Please, for the love you bore Liana, please. Like using his cards, pulling the best cards he's been keeping up his sleeve. And the king makes the choice to walk away.

From that moment on as the reader, we know all is lost. That's the end of the road. Robert Baratheon is not the man Ned once knew. Ned starts in his very first chapter that I hope Robert can be the man I once knew. And Robert will never be that man again. Ned is truly alone in a lion's den in King's Landing, and he ends up leaving his daughter alone there as well. It's all as Catelyn foretold and told him. The king is a stranger to you.

And we spend... It works because we spend a lot of these earlier chapters trying to reestablish that friendship between Ned and Robert, the heart of that conflict becomes the two of them and how their friendship falls apart. Our last scene as this chapter comes to a close becomes

one with a sense of dread. The Hound re-enters and says that they caught Arya's little pet. The words that they use are little pet. And we're primed to think after seeing the death of Lady, we're bracing ourselves for the worst. And seeing that Nymeria might have also been caught and might have died, especially after saving Arya's life.

But in some ways, it's worse. In a lot of ways, it's worse because people are important too. We find out that when the hound says that he's brought back Arya's little pet, what he really means is Micah. It's definitely a fake out for the reader. It's meant for us to clench our stomachs and go no no no not the other wolf too no you know like you're sitting there wilding out going no I can't take more heartache the last two pages of the chapter it's a full two pages you know I turned the page and I was like is it just a page and a half no it's two pages of this fake out just to get this horrible like harsh thing from the

hound but it is Micah it is very, but it is Micah. It is very important that it is Micah. It is a human. People are important. But at the same time, all of us sitting there in a Game of Thrones are reading, going, he wouldn't kill both wolves. There's no way George would kill a bunch of stark allies or

stark positive people at once in a chapter. Instead, yeah, dot. He would never kill off a bunch of staunch, stark people. Why would he ever do such a thing? Why would anyone happen? That would never happen. That would not happen.

It would ruin the books for me. I would never read these books again. Monster would do that. The hound's eyes seemed to glitter through the steel of that hideous dog's head helm he ran he looked at ned's face and laughed but not very fast so from the beginning we're getting to see people that are quote-unquote villains especially with the way that the hound is presented here right he's presented as someone who's run down this innocent boy, Micah.

While Nymeria, she's a wolf and we love her, she did attack Joffrey. But Micah did nothing. And this, of course, highlights that power differential between the highborns and the lowborns in the language that the Hound uses. There's also kind of an irony in it, you know, that the Hound is himself referred to there's also kind of an irony in it you know that the hound is himself referred to as a dog frequently in the series and what he does is he calls micah who's of a lower station and who has been playing with aria and serving her in maybe some of the same

ways that the hound has been serving joffrey he uses a moniker that might be assigned to him as the Lannister's dog, Tameika, and calls him Arya's little pet. And he takes joy, it seems, when he laughs in having slain him and having written him down and showing that difference in power, not only in strength and age, but exerting it over someone who's below him. But what I think is so interesting about this particular quote is some of that language and vocabulary. We earlier talked about how Ned's all like, how he glittered with Jaime. Here we see that the hound's eyes seem to glitter. And it's probably just because I caught onto that line earlier. This word is sticking out to me now. And it's just quite a callback in terms of the language in my opinion it's actually a very interesting catch which again doing these point of view rereads allow for catches like that i would note it's very sansa ask language when ned sees the villains

glittering ned's point of view seeing villains as the glamorous glittering shiny people they're portrayed as versus Sansa seeing the glittering people that are actually villains is interesting to me. Also, both of the villains described as glittery in Ned's eyes in the last two chapters have been Jaime Lannister and Sandor Clegane, who now in the canon where we are in the books can be both kind of regarded as anti-heroes in their own way. One is even on a path to redemption one we're gonna let you decide who we're talking about when we say one of them if you follow me on any media i think you know which one we're talking about but yeah the language of uh glitter it it ties into

like one of those big themes that's running throughout these stories of, to quote Shakespeare and Macbeth, fair is foul and foul is fair. Not just in terms of what is fair game, as Robert is earlier saying that something was war, that what could be beautiful, all that glitters is not gold, of course. Yes. That also comes back to another character that we'll get to soon later later

uh little finger his eyes are also described as glittering so i don't think this is necessarily a code that george has left for readers to decipher whether someone is good or not i just think that it's a convention that he seems to come back to in his language and especially when showing perhaps mischief in someone's eyes he just happens to use the word glitter but i just think that it's an interesting convention that's arisen i agree i don't think it's something it's no theory it's not like uh start looking at tinfoil you know to catch on with it but it is something that george uses from the eyes of our protagonists to kind of describe

showing you know something you might not agree with as glittering uh catalan sees the glitter of eyes in cat nine through the murder hole slats through the water tower near the frays too so it's kind of something we see in our protagonists uh when they see other villains even or someone that they do not see as a alliance or fellow protagonist so it's an interesting catch definitely we've gone through the chapter but of course there's that big lingering question of, you know, whose fault was it that Lady died? You'll see this as a very contentious topic, and people will often point fingers at certain characters and condemn it. So why is Lady dead?

All right, Eliana, let me... Uh, some people tend to think that it was Sansa's fault that Lady is dead. While I will give the ultimate George answer that it was a combination of people's fault. And also Sansa has done nothing wrong ever. And she's a perfect little girl. So anyways, jot that down. But I do have some reasons because you and I were discussing this beforehand and kind of had a chat of okay well

Sansa did some stuff that probably didn't help and I get that but we did want to discuss whose fault it was that Lady was dead. First and foremost before I talk to you about my reasoning for it Cersei it was all Cersei and she's awful and we should all just kill Cersei. Anyways Sansa and Ned both embody family duty honor in harmful ways in the first book, especially. Sansa thinks that honoring her family and her duty and her honor is to honor marrying the king and doing well, or marrying the prince, pardon me, and doing well and advancing and doing what she's supposed to do as a daughter, which we see a great contrast between her and Arya's arcs of Arya not wanting to do that. That's Sansa, not me. I don't want to be the lady of a house. I want to have adventure and this and that.

Where Sansa is almost the character that says, well, I'm being punished for doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I think people forget how charming Joffrey was during Sansa's chapter. He was singing to her. He was giving her wine, which she never had more than a cup of wine ever, you know, in her life. Father would let her have a cup of good wine at a feast, she says. But Joffrey was charming. He was very charming. He was, you know, wolf in sheep's clothing, so to say. So not to mention baby's first hangover when she's being questioned by her in-laws later that day. And not to mention that Sans is 11 years

old. I don't have to go into that. We all have been 11. Most of the people listening to this, I'm going to say 99,999.9999% of people listening to this podcast are probably have been 11. And if you haven't you precocious ass child good for you i guess yeah hipster hipster pretentious precocious ass child like good for you hit us a dm no let's get some discourse we're not asking children to slide into our dms that's not what we're doing on this podcast sorry go on this podcast went south really quickly just like the starks um i think it's also important the chapter that we see this exact scene from we don't see the scene in dairy from sansa we don't see it from aria we don't see it from

other characters we see it from ned and the We don't see it from other characters. We see it from Ned, and the things we see from Ned are what's important. Ned knew when he walked into that room that Cersei wanted blood. Cersei says as much. Someone's some things. She would not stop for anything short of a wolf, at least, if not a girl. She did not want the wolves coming south with them, and not only did she not want that, but she separated the pack. She separated Ary from sanza aria pummels sanza she attacks sanza she's angry she's like why are you lying why are you not saying anything but as ned said the lannister woman shall never have this skin she will cersei will not separate the starts. that Sansa holds no culpability when we are willing to bestow blame onto Joffrey who's only two years older than Sansa for his actions probably because Sansa didn't beat a kid up with a sword

yes okay does that answer your question this is why I said you're gonna have an answer to this question it's just something that I wanted to raise and bring up as a point because like I agree that she's very young and as I'm going to say frequently throughout my life I hope like the dumb shit that I did as a teenager is like never held against me I did some stupid things like stupid things when I was 11 like I even younger than that especially but I can remember all these stupid things that I've done and so when I read these chapters and remind myself how old Sansa is and how, you know, just I remember when I was 11, some of the things I was doing. And I remember having crushes on boys. I remember.

Here's a good one. Did you have book fairs? We did have book fairs. Ever? If you don't know what a book fair is, this is some good close position. The book in the maiden fair. The book in the some good close position. The book in the maiden fair. The book in the maiden fair. Yes.

The book in the maiden book fair. There, as a kid in fifth grade, I had a crush on this boy who skateboarded. Okay. He skateboarded. Yeah. Shut up.

We didn't, you know, who didn't want their skater boy? Right. I went to the book fair and there was a book that was one of these tiny flimsy books. My mom sent me with money. It and there was a book that was one of these tiny, flimsy books. My mom sent me with money. It was the only thing I wanted money for. You know, I saved my lunch money too. I didn't tell her, but I saved my lunch money and her money. I wanted books. And I got a how to skateboard or skateboard for beginners, little tiny book thinking I could

be cool and impress him. He didn't give a crap. He liked this other girl who was really cool on her own and didn't need skateboard books. And I didn't understand it. And I was so heartbroken. But my point is, girls do dumb crap for boys. They buy books for boys when they're 11. Okay, like, I don't know. I was 11 and I did stupid stuff thinking it would get his attention.

And Sansa is put in the middle of this place of she's 11 years old. The king is her dad's best friend, to her knowledge. You have to remember's 11 years old. The king is her dad's best friend, to her knowledge. You have to remember what her knowledge is. The king is her dad's best friend. She doesn't know this backstory. She doesn't know that her bastard half-brother, Jon Snow, isn't her half-brother. He's probably the heir to the kingdom from her aunt that died that she's heard so much about how beautiful she was. And she's heard this romantic story that Robert went to war for the

Lady Liana and she died because she was kidnapped by the evil king. And Sansa is supposed to be, I mean, you're engaged to be married to a prince who's going to be king someday. You do what the royals say. And she sat there and she said nothing and said she didn't remember because she didn't want to say the wrong thing. she told ned what happened ned knew the truth of it and ned did not punish sansa for being wrong or didn't say sansa that's not what you told me i mean what would ned have done look at what ned's done this whole time has ned told him about john snow no yeah it's a little unfair to put these circumstances of lies and of doing the right thing on an 11 year old when the adults around her can't do that themselves i think that's a

great point tying it back to uh ned and robert's friendship because of course the idea of truth is such a big running theme throughout ned's storyline which which is why it's interesting, as you point out, that this scene doesn't come through Sansa's POV because Sansa's storyline isn't, especially in Game of Thrones, her storyline is not about truth. It's not about honesty, but Ned's is. And that idea of self-preservation is, of course, a big thing too. We see that Sansa looks at her family and at Joffrey. And it's hard to put someone in a position where they are asked to testify against a family that's about to become their own. If Ned is himself entering this lion's den, then of course that's what it will be for sansa if she's entering it herself as a younger less experienced politician and it would behoove her to

try and get at least in their mildly good graces and not completely antagonize them from the beginning i also think that it goes to show the ambiguity George is trying to give you from Sansa's motivations. In the original outline, as we know, Sansa wasn't, if you've seen the original outline, the first page that was kind of released, Sansa was originally supposed to be, well, George created her to create a black wolf in the family, you know, someone who wasn't so tied in to make the Starks so homey and so snowy. And so we have wolves and we hug. Sansa was created to add a little bit of tension between her and Arya, her tomboy sister, and to be just a little bit of, you know, the prissy, pre-pubescent, pre-teen sister. And keeping her motivation so ambiguous in this beginning is something that george kind of did he doesn't give you what sansa was thinking he doesn't tell us what sansa is thinking because

he wants us to think on that this is an age-old debate that george wants us to think on and it works in that it sets the basis for for sansa making certain choices later but i think it also very much works because it it sets a foundation from which someone can grow and evolve and change which people do between the time that they are 11 and all the other times in which they are older. I've definitely grown since being 11. Thank God. Amen. Oh, you were probably so short. I mean, weren't we all? Weren't you short at 11? Really? No.

I was 5'5 when I was 11. Oh my gosh, you're such a tall tall I was at 11. But yeah, I was not 5 something. I would have been tall in the Philippines. Anyways, so. Okay. So that about wraps it up for uh the events that have gone down in ned two and ned three a lot of drama has happened and it only gets more dramatic from here here are some things that we can look forward to next episode because they're happening the next few chapters in ned four ned is summoned to a small

council meeting and as soon as he steps foot in king's landing he's asked to do the very very big and important task of planning a tourney every person's dream when they come to run a whole kingdom and then after the meeting little finger is all Ned, we're going to go to the brothel. And he's trolling Ned all the way there on his way to meeting his lady wife, Catelyn, to plan for justice for the Stark family. Yes, Stark and Arryn alike. In Ned 5, Ned fully begins his investigation of Jon Arryn's death, starting with the grandest of maesters, Pycelle. Leaving Pycelle, he finds Arya training on the steps of the Tower of the Hand, and he is later visited once more by Littlefinger, who has found household members of Jon Arryn that still remain in King's Landing. That's it for our second cast. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining us again this week. We hope you really liked it. Let us know what you thought. Let us know if you have any reactions, any comments, feedback. You can find us on Twitter, iTunes, theoretically on Google Play, and on Podbean. But not theoretically on Podbean, definitely on Podbean.

and on Podbean. But not theoretically on Podbean, definitely on Podbean. Definitely on Podbean. Yes, please leave us a review on iTunes. I know it's early in the game, but if you've appreciated these last two episodes, I almost can promise you,

promise me, promise you, that it will only get better. I was going to say more fun, but this was a heavy episode, Eliana. We got very heavy. Ned is very, yeah, we kind of didn't think about this. This is really getting heavy. We're a little emotional. We're gonna need some like whiskey for this. But please leave us a review on iTunes, a comment on Podbean, on Google Play. Let us know what you thought. Tweet at us. DM us. Thank you so much again for

listening, you guys. I've been been Chloe you can find me on Twitter at at Liza Narber also on Tumblr at Liza Narber dot Tumblr dot com writing meta analysis you can also find me with my drunk a song of ice and fire history podcast on Twitter and I've been Eliana

you can find me as glass table girl with underscores between the words over on Reddit and on Maester Monthly. And you can also find me as Arithmetric on Twitter. And we, of course,

have been Girls Gone Canon. Thanks so much, you guys. Can't wait till next time.