Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 229 — AFFC Cersei I

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

Okay, it's real this time: We're starting the Cersei chapters. The King's Hand is dead but long live the queen. Cersei Lannister. An icon. Background music: Drums of the Deep · Kevin MacLeod Drums of the Deep ℗ Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... "Unease" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/   ---- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads a Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 229. Circe won in a feast for crows. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. It's here! I cannot believe we're doing this. This is so fucking exciting. This is...are you ready to be unhinged as fuck?

I am. There's a lot of people who have been waiting for this. I think they're probably all in more disbelief than we are that we're finally here. I think some of them are wondering, is this a joke? Am I gonna have the rug pulled out for me again? No. About it being Cersei? No, it's here. We're really doing the Cersei chapters. Uh, I'm so excited for the entirely extra quality that we're going to have about us for the next several weeks. I'm very excited about some of the guests that we have coming on. Yes.

They're passionate. Oh my, we have a stacked cast. They're so passionate. We are bringing the Cersei fans to you. Get ready. And when we're celebrating Cersei, we're not celebrating one take about Cersei during this POV, we're taking Cersei for who she is, right? Like, I don't know, I think there's a lot of, my take about Cersei is right, my

opinion is right, Cersei's two dimensional for that. Y'all don't deserve Cersei. Oh, okay, yes. I'm just putting it out there. I mean, that's not... that ain't her. It's like Whitney Houston. I'm every woman. It's all in me. God. And Shaka Khan. Depending on which version of the song you would like, but I don't know.

Rest in peace, Cersei. I would've loved Shaka Khan. Actually, yeah, probably. I don't know. I think Cersei would have loved Disco. Yeah. I really do. Probably. She would have worn all of that well, actually.

The gold, the warm colors, wow. Wow. I'm really excited to diagnose our own neuroses as well as cerces as we go forward. We have a lot to talk about. Oh yeah, we have a lot to talk about with that. But let's get into our housekeeping real quick, right? So we can get into the fun, into the fun that lays ahead. First up, patreon.com slash girls gone canon.

It's the place to be. You can do a lot there. There's lots of extras. There's some stuff for free members even, but if you pledge to one of our several tiers you can get some perks like the stranger tier and above. The stranger tier, that's the five dollar tier. That is where you can get bonus episodes. More Girls Gone Cannon. More! If this week's episode isn't enough, that's where you gotta go.

And we actually just put out last month for patrons in that tier and above an episode on Dorn. And I'm saying this really, really preemptively, but it could be a trilogy. If not, then maybe a second trilogy. I mean, we could go for three trilogies just like George. What? Yeah, I think it is a little too- it is also a little dependent on George. But yeah, it's a new series that we are gonna finish. We are gonna finish our Free Cities one Monday too. That's- that's still gonna happen. Don't worry, we haven't forgotten... today. I haven't forgotten it today.

But... Yeah, I... it today. But yeah, we're talking about Dorn and how Dorn became part of the Seven Kingdoms, picking up a little bit from where we left off after our Rainies the Conqueror episode, but also kind of setting the stage a little for A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Yeah, I do think we'll be covering A Night of the Seven Kingdoms when it comes out. It's going to be, I think, six episodes, right? So first season, six episodes. We'll probably take a break in 2025 from the POV podcast. Yes, that will put your final two POVs.

Six weeks back, I'm very sorry. At least six weeks back, I'm very sorry. At least six weeks back. Uh, we need recovery. We're old. We're, we're, we're old ladies. What are we going to call it? Unleash the, uh, we love the nightlife. The D for dunk.

Okay. Yeah. Well that, that'll be good. Unleash the dunk with two Cs. I was thinking, I don't know, I'm in a disco mood. I'm like, I love the nightlife. I love to boogie on the disco. Where? Ha!

Oh, God. Maybe Dunk's era is the 70s. I don't know, discuss. Not us. You guys discuss. But, yeah. I'm excited to jump into Dorne more for Night of the Seven Kingdoms and kind of be ready to talk about what's going on in Westeros, because I think we're very dragon-pilled right now. Like, we've spent a long time talking about dragons. I'm- in fact, Cersei is like a palate cleanser. Like, this is a perfect opportunity to get me back to, you know, back to everything before we get our Targaryen POVs, I'm just kidding, the final two POVs, which I'm not gonna name in any particular order. Who knows? Yeah, we're just not gonna name it. I assume you all know who's left, so.

All must choose. All must choose. Ah, yes. Well, what you can't choose is the date of our brunch. It's this weekend. It's this weekend, October 6th on Patreon. If you are in the Thunder Tier and above, $10 and up, you can join us for our brunch slash happy hour on our Discord. You get access to our Discord in general.

I mean, you can choose where you participate on that, but yeah Yeah, and honestly, it's basically a lifetime like as long as that server lives. You're probably gonna be in that server You're not going anywhere so come come aboard unless you're a dick if you're a dick I mean, I'm gonna kick your ass out, but don't be a dick It's your warnings. Yeah, the only rule don't be a dick. It's your warnings. Yeah, the only rule. Don't be a fucking asshole. But we don't follow that rule when we talk about Cersei Lannister. Sometimes she could be a little bit of an asshole. Just like me. I get that. She could be a lot of things.

We all can be like that sometimes. That's just life. She's kind of an asshole in this chapter. For sure. I don't know. I an asshole in this chapter, for sure. I don't know. I took it way more sympathetically for me. I was like, oh, she's grieving. Grief is different for all of us. We're going to talk about that.

For sure. But also, like, I'm not going to lie, during my grieving and even pre-grieving periods, I was quite an asshole. No, I was pre-grieving. No, that's real. That's real. Pre-grief is real. I feel that. And, you know, sometimes you're very much in a different tunnel than everyone else during that time.

That's true. Well, for today's lightning round, and what you missed between Forever Ago and Circe 1, I think we have a very creative lightning round ahead of us. Whether you love her, whether you hate her, she's done some crazy shit right? Like fucking her brother and having those babies which we're gonna get into a lot obviously but I'm kind of pro now? I don't know I don't know we're gonna find out. Okay something bad she had killed, right? Something good. She had Robert killed. And look, say what you want about her. But we have to invite some of our friends here

to really tell you about Cersei Lannister, to help us introduce you to Cersei Lannister. And Aliana, can you kick us off? How do I even begin to explain Cersei Lannister? Cersei Lannister is flawless. She has two pleasure barges and a lion-shaped castle. I hear her hair's insured for 100,000 gold dragons. I hear she does boat commercials in Lys. I heard her favorite song is the Queen took off her sandal, The King Took Off His Crown. One time she met Rhaegar Targaryen at a feast, and he told her she was pretty. One time she punched me in the face. It was awesome!

VB- Thank you to our friends, some of them friends and patrons there for helping us introduce Cersei. That's an homage to Mean Girls for the uneducated. I would hope if you're this far in our podcast you would have known that though, honestly. I feel like that's in there. VB- I just assume none of you are young enough to have not seen Mean Girls? I don't know. I don't know anymore. It used to not be a TikTok clip like the new Mean Girls have. This moment is like done in TikToks, I think, which is kind of crazy. Oh yeah, that's right.

Yeah, yeah. Very different, you know, generations, generations, but coming off of that generation, we're not gonna go too far back into into Cersei's, into Herstory. Whoa! Whoa. I'm so sorry. You're so proud. It was pretty funny.

I'm pretty funny. We're not gonna go that far into Herstory today, but we are going to go forward in it with a feast for crows Prologue rest in peace, Pate The Prophet What is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger hair grows back energy The captain of the guards quiet schemes from plotting men begin to bear fruit. And that brings us here to

A Feast for Crows, Cersei One. But just Cersei One in general. Tywin's death creates a vortex of panic for Cersei Lannister. Wow, vortex, Chloe. It's my first one back in a while. Please go easy on me. No, I like it. It's so dramatic. Yeah, I know I kind of foamed it in on some of them, but the Vortex felt really colorful. Thank you. Thank you. And so we open this chapter with a killer motherfucking passage. She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all.

The courtiers were brightly colored mice below. Great lords and proud ladies knelt before her. Bold young knights laid their swords at her feet and pleaded for her favors, and the queen smiled down at them. Until the dwarf appeared, as if from nowhere, pointing at her and howling with laughter. The lords and ladies began to chuckle, too, hiding their smiles behind their hands. Only then did the queen realize she was naked. Horrified, she tried to cover herself with her hands.

The barbs and blades of the iron throne bit into her flesh as she crouched to hide her shame. Blood ran red down her legs as steel teeth gnawed at her buttocks. When she tried to stand, her foot slipped through a gap in the twisted metal. The more she struggled, the more the throne engulfed her, tearing chunks of flesh from her breasts and belly, slicing at her arms and legs until they were slick and red glistening, and all while her brother capered below, laughing. His merriment still echoed in her ears when she felt a light touch on her shoulder and

woke suddenly. For half a heartbeat, the hand seemed part of the nightmare, and Cersei cried out, but it was only Sinelle. The maid's face was white and frightened. Damn. George Big Balls Martin. Okay. Yes. That's what the RR stands for somehow.

Big Balls RR. Turns out those aren't RR, that's a BB. Anyways. Some real fat RR. Turns out those aren't RR, that's a BB. Anyways. Oh, some real fat RRs. I don't know where I'm going. Just connect those lines at the- never mind, forget it. Forget it. They're already kind of connected.

I'm leaving it all in. Big ass writing balls. They were metaphorical balls that I was talking about, I was not talking about his balls. Jesus, Eliana. Big writing balls, like that's a crazy fucking way to write a chapter and open it for a character's first POV. This entire chapter is though, like it's insane. Yes. Yeah, it does a great job. I've actually, I mean you think about the gap in terms of release dates because this was actually a pretty long wait compared to the previous three books' cadence of release.

It does a great job of reminding you, hey, this is where we left off, and really throwing you into the emotional core of, this is what Ch- like, Circe's chapters are going to be, this is what it's like right now in Westeros. Everyone's like, what the fuck? That's so real. And Cersei only has ten chapters in this book. That's wild.

Which, to be fair- That's a lot, though. She only has ten for Feast, right? That's- I mean Sansa had what, two? Arya had three, maybe? I can't remember. Two or three? Had two. Arya has three, I think, in this one, right? And then two in dance.

Dance. So having ten in- I mean, having ten in one book for any character I think is actually a lot. Yeah, I mean, not everybody can be the Tyrions and the Catalyns and the Aryas of the world, right? Not everyone is George R.R. Martin's favorite angel. God. That is how he- that is Arya, isn't it? Pick one. Uh, but this is amazing because the way that he structures this story, and I know

we have 10 chapters in this book and two in the next to really get into your feelings on the prophecy so I'm not gonna ask you right now, but Especially coming off of like House of the Dragon and the emphasis on the prophecy and some of the deep dives and prophecy We've recently done with Joe Magician during Unleash the D the critically acclaimed Primer and postseason Hot D podcast. Award winning. Award winning.

Someday. What if it does? We don't know. Coming off of prophecy becoming such a hot topic for us right now, Cersei's arc is structured actually almost directly around this ramp up and reveal of the prophecy, right? Cersei VIII is when we actually get the Magi the Witch prophecy and kind of get that unfolding and that truth around the Valon card, but we don't get that for seven more chapters. Like that's incredible. And there is quite a lead up into that with this because you're kind of wondering like

why is Cersei so afraid of Tyrion in a lot of those chapters and then it kind of explains all that I think let's see how I feel about the prophecy this year because I I had some strong feelings about it before and how I didn't like we'll see we'll see like who am I now it It's been a while. It's been like a long time since I came up with those ideas, but. I hope you just go into this with your heart and your legs. What? No, just your heart wide open.

I'm happy to do both. Oh my God. So we are unhinged this POV. We told you, we told y'all we were going to be unhinged. POV. We told you. We told y'all we were gonna be unhinged. I don't know what you expected. I love there's this line in here, where is it, when she's getting like, EATED by the Iron Throne, and how, the more she struggled, the more the throne engulfed her, tearing chunks of flesh from her breasts and bellies, slicing at her arms and legs until they were

slick and red, glistening, and all while her brother capered below, laughing. And I just felt that was so poignant, obviously, with the idea of prophecy. Especially when you look at, like, the end of the chapter, how it ends, right? It is blood I need, not water. Tyrion's blood, the blood of the Valonqar. The torches spun around her, Cersei closed her eyes and saw the dwarf grinning at her. No, she thought. No, I was almost rid of you.

Just like how that kind of plays off of itself in the idea of the more that Cersei struggles against what she was told and what she thinks she's doing is fighting against prophecy, against fate, and then also that the throne is eating her, and on a whole that's what her arc is, right? Like we watch that happen to her. When you think that she should be down, like, D.Va down, girl down, after her walk of shame, you're set up in this perfect place where no, Cersei's back and she's going right back to that fucking throne, and she's gonna writhe at it and it's gonna tear her apart. Yeah, the more she tries to fight against those barbs of prophecy, the more it closes

in on her, as you were saying. It's very Greek tragedy, which I think is something that George was going for with this prophecy, but we'll see. We'll explore more about how I feel. And also I think, I don't know, Loki I just do think I need wins to know more about how I feel, if I think it's well executed or not. I will say, you know, a little bit of meta regarding the recording of this podcast. My partner just came in and handed me some wine, which I think is just really a good way

of kicking off Seercy. I feel like the fact that I've finished my wine that I had this week, it's gone, and I didn't have wine ready for this, is a crime. This is us killing off this bottle of wine, so yeah. Wow. I've committed a crime. Maybe this is the same bottle of wine, like this is it reincarnated. I don't know. My god. No, mine was a box. Mine was a black box, but next week I will come back and repent and I will be very repentant. Yes. I will do no more sins.

Very demure. Very mindful. Very Cersei. Something throughout my favorite Book of Feasts for Crows that I'm so excited we're on is that That's true. That great triad of Jaime, Cersei, and Brienne that comes back and hits you throughout, right? And we talked about that so much back during Jaime and Brienne and now we're gonna talk about it here suckers But they're so different and that's why it all works So well, each one of them is very different and that's why it all works so well. Each one of them is very different and Cersei and Jaime are so complimentary.

It's given to us pretty much in a thesis statement in these front feast chapters, right? When Tyrion kills their father, Jaime crashes Tyrion's reality, but Tyrion also kind of shatters Jaime's, right? With the venom he injects when he says, and moon, for all I know, and goes off on him. When Tyrion kills their father, as we push forward in this chapter, Cersei reverts as if in a dream. And not having her POV in those first couple of books is so interesting because she's presented as this ice queen.

She's not really presented as paranoid or neurotic necessarily. She's really perceived as cool headed through all of this and that she will prevail because of that. So opening this and opening it to her paranoia and her going immediately as if she's in a dream and nothing's real anymore. Like this could be a David Lynch show this entire chapter. Like amazing, a Lynch movie. But as we go through Feast, both characters break

and they get rebuilt again. They're shattered and rebuilt and they're the same characters, but they're very much changed and not purely for the better, as we'll find. And I have to point out that that like walk of shame foreshadowing going on throughout this chapter and like how this all circles back for Cersei later is so loud. Like that line, horrified, she tried to cover herself with her hands, that naked shame, that shame of not only nudity, but of being a woman, of being just a woman. Yeah, that's a that's a really good point because I do think it's interesting that she feels such fear and shame around that. And I mean, we're taught to feel ashamed of our bodies, but at the same time, she's someone who takes such pride in her looks that to an extent I'm like, I don't know, it is absolutely that feeling of vulnerability.

Yeah, I love what you're calling out about that triad of Brienne, Jaime and Cersei, because a lot of their chapters are literally right next to each other in feast, like Brienne and Cersei. And in some ways, I think Brienne's kind of living Cersei's dream without any of them realizing it, getting to be at night, kinda. But yeah, there's that shame and foreshadowing as the throne tears Cersei apart, which is what's gonna happen metaphorically throughout the chapters, just like the metaphorical big balls. Um, and then- RR. RR. Unhensed. What is happening? In my Cersei era.

So yeah, the nakedness represents that fear of vulnerability and being perceived as weak, because as you said, that, that woman's body and how she associates it with weakness, as we'll see. And I think there's kind of an irony as well, because like. I'm thinking about her worrying about nakedness in a style similar to Tyrion of making what she feels is her weakness into her armor, because of the way that we do see her throughout a lot of these chapters use that sexuality, which sexuality and nakedness aren't the same.

I think they're like adjacent concepts, but they're not the same. But she uses that as her armor and her weapon a lot. And you gotta expand your arsenal, girl. I love what you're saying about how she's perceived as an Ice Queen a lot by everyone. Like that's how we're introduced to her in the first book, which is fascinating because it's coming from someone who's in the North. Like if anyone knows about Ice, it's fucking Ned. All right. And for him to say that about Cersei, but I think it makes such a great parallel with another character whose POV we get in this book, Erienne. And we talked about this during the Erienne chapters a long, long, long, long, long time ago. And so I'm going to bring it up again, because our friend Maddie kind of reminded me of that in the

Discord of loving those that Princess in the Tower chapter in The Soiled Knight. And people think that The Soiled Knight is a superfluous chapter and I disagree. You can go back and listen to our coverage on Arienne and on Laurie's Oakheart about why I disagree. Because I think that they're great parallels to the structure of Circe because again, you're getting an external view of this woman and how they view them as powerful, mysterious, seductress, but especially very powerful, right? And only to see that Erienne stripped away as we enter her chapter. She's just a confused, insecure girl, and that's exactly what happens with Circe, right? You find out that she's really fucking confused.

And she's just trying to figure out how to gain power, same as Iria. And then she's just got this like burning passion, turns out. All this time, she's had this burning passion inside her. And the first line of the chapter tells us exactly what she wants. We kind of knew, we kind of knew throughout the first three books that she does want to be on the Iron Throne, but now we like, now we know. Yeah, and I love the comparison to Aryan too as somebody who's just like a decade younger than her. It kind of gives us that idea of maybe what Cersei in some aspects dealt with in her family in her role as the daughter and wanting that power and getting nothing from her father and like needing that validation from him that was never coming and that validation as a

ruler. And our friend Maddie that you mentioned is reading a lot of that Princess and the Tower stuff and rereading and getting all these concepts she's been chatting about and tweeting about getting all these concepts she's been chatting about and tweeting about a lot for Alicent Hightower, right, who is another maternal ruler in the story in Fire and Blood and in House of the Dragon that we see in House of the Dragon how they've kind of given her a POV and turned her into a POV character, but this is something that there's so much in this chapter that made me think of Alice in Hightower just, you know, being a walking through a castle, being the dowager queen mother of these children that represent so much power, but do they mean anything? I don't know. Will you let them mean anything? I don't know. Will the people let them mean anything? I don't know.

It's too early to tell. Outlook not so good. Reply hazy. Try again later. Like these are all those poor kids, dead. But yeah, it's just interesting to think of her like being this this character ruling in King's Landing, this Queen Mother that has fought and gnawed her way to stay in the game, stay alive. Absolutely, absolutely. And if you'll all recall, Olivia Cooke was given Circe's lines to read when auditioning for Allison.

And I think there are absolutely echoes, right, between those characters, but they do a great job of expressing the similar ideas differently, different takes on characters. And also I mean like, yeah we're talking about y'all have heard of the Princess in the Tower, get ready for this chapter, it's the Queen in the Tower, the Hands Tower. Yeah. Cause that's where we're going. So well constructed too, because then the burning and the amazing. Oh, I thought you meant my joke.

Oh no, your joke was decently constructed too. Very clever, Your Grace. You're so clever to say that. It was well struck, Your Grace. Oh my god. Emmett and I, my roommate and I do, we constantly will be like, you're so clever to see it. And the other day he was like, yeah, but you've gone from using it to like, using it ironically, like you're actually being, like, you know, naively saying, oh, you're so clever to see it.

And I'm like, am I? Am I? Uh, you gotta be careful, you know, the thing that you live long enough to see, watch yourself become the villain. Wow, you're so clever to have seen it, Eliana. Shadows are looming around Cersei's bed, and she pushes herself to be brave, to sit up and say, what do you want of me? And as one steps into the light, she thinks, it's Jaime, but no, it's a kettle black. Sent at Jaime's request, muttering something about a privy, a crossbow, and her father's name. She thinks she must be dreaming, still waiting for Tyrion to crawl out from under her bed, laughing at her, but Tyrion should still be in the black cells, condemned to die.

Yeah, he really should be, huh? And... condemned to die. Yeah he really should be huh? And dang like so we were talking about this during the Kevin chapter, the Kevin epilogue singular chapter in which turns out Kevin actually is a lot more like Cersei I think than I realized and I do think to an extent maybe Cersei is a lot more like Tywin than people give her credit for because like her fears, some of her greatest fears as we see in this dream are like about Tyrion laughing at her and that echoes throughout this chapter and then but not just Tyrion like it then spreads to everyone else. She's like, oh god everyone's laughing at me and this was Tywin's like deepest fear You know that everyone was laughing at him, but not that he wasn't afraid that Tyrion was laughing at him

Interestingly, it's beat he was afraid that everyone was laughing at him because of Tyrion And I think he was afraid of everyone laughing at him for because of a lot of other things as well He just decided wouldn't it be easy if I stuffed it all onto this one person that I only have to worry about this one Person instead of actually dealing with my inner emotions. Well, and as a child you learn to respond to the emotions around you and to mirror certain things, right? So when you think about Cersei as a child who needed to know when her father was in a certain mood in order to know when it was appropriate to speak, right? Like I think about that all the time, like,, understanding, like, when a parent is rigid,

understanding when an adult is rigid and when it's appropriate or not appropriate to say something to them, let alone, like, what makes them turn that way. Then you start to do the calculations in your head, right? Of, well, I don't want them to become that way. And so, no wonder she's averse to it. She probably spent half of her life posturing because of it. Posturing, trying to never be laughed at. Never to disappoint. Absolutely.

Well, she turns her hands over, making certain there are no cuts, no gashes. It was just a dream. She drank too much and her children are safe and Tyrion will die. And we actually get a quick little drop in here, the word Valoncar, so you're getting that slow introduction as you're talking about to the prophecy. And the text does not define what it means in this instant. They kind of force the reader to use context clues a little, but you're also like, what? Yeah, as we get to that ending, they'll like, closer name it, so you start to conflate,

okay, Tyrion, Valoncar, but we still don't know. Still. And then you find out it just means little brother, and I'm like, you mean the dog from Ruan? Anyway. Jocelyn Swift presses a cup of lemon water to her hands. Osmund Kettleblack looms, Boros Blount stands with his lantern, and Lannister guardsmen are at the door.

Everyone looks afraid. She dresses and declares that her father keeps guards around him and Osman tells her the guards were posted but a hidden door was beneath the hearth and the Lord Commander is following its trail. Throughout this you're kind of getting this imagery and it actually comes back again later this chapter of moths going towards the light. There's a Moth that's trapped in one of the lanterns and Circe like thinks about it and it makes me think of Circe, right? Circe as the Moth who, going towards the light as she tries to, she ends up fulfilling the

steps of the prophecy, trying to outsmart it, thinking that this is the way to go, but it's actually her own death. Yeah, just like the Iron Throne language of it ripping her apart. VB- Yeah. VB- Mmm. VB- Mmm. VB- Damn. VB- George RR.

VB- Those Rs be R'in. VB- Big ol' balls. VB- The R stands for writing balls. VB- George is never gonna come on our podcast after this. VB- After we talked about his scrotum. R- Maybe you'll delete that one. Maybe not. S- Maybe not. It's in my hands. R- Jesus! S- All must choose, but not you. R- Sounds like no one's choosing, which sounds like a monarchy, which sounds like the story.

S- Alll the Anna must choose. Sounds like no one's choosing which sounds like planted and nurtured in Highgarden. So close. That was the last one. So close. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I would say give her half a point, like partial credit. I mean, she might ascend by sheer, like, being the last one there, you know? At this point, give her a half. Half point.

Whoa, that is interesting if she's the last one. Anyway, come back to that. No, but actually, but yes, I agree. Like, I do think somewhat that, like, by the sheer luck of everyone fucking dying. Well, I'm just thinking of, like, we're talking about Ariane and Cersei. I know you and I have different, I think, ideas of the end of Ariane, and I'm thinking, like, she survives everyone, including her family, after everyone dies around her. She's like, what the fuck did I do?

And obviously, like, Cersei's probably not gonna survive Tyrion, but she's gonna survive her kids, and maybe she'll be like, what the fuck did I do? And obviously like Cersei's probably not gonna survive Tyrion, but she's gonna survive her kids and maybe she'll be like, what the fuck did I do? Yeah, real tragic shit. Yeah. She charges Osmin to accompany her to the Tower of the Hand and Boros to confirm that Tyrion's in his cell, while she thinks to herself that Boros is a craven. When they leave Maegor's holdfast, Cersei gazes down at the spikes below and asks, who found Tywin? One of his guards had found him in the privy, Osmund says.

No, that cannot be. That is not the way a lion dies. The queen felt strangely calm. She remembered the first time she'd lost a tooth. When she was just a little girl, it hadn't hurt, but the hole in her mouth felt so odd that she could not stop touching it with her tongue. Now there is a hole in the world where father stood and holes want filling." Random, random. This description reminds me of that line from Fight Club about a sore in your mouth and how they describe, what's her name, like? Marla? Moira? Marla? Marla? Marla? Yeah, like the scratch in your mouthira, Mara, Marla, Marla, yeah. Yeah, the like, the scratch in your mouth that you just have to keep picking at.

Keep tugging. Yeah, keep tugging, yeah. Yup, Marla. Oh, Marla. Coming off of the Captain of Guards raid before this, where Oberyn just died versus this, when Tywin's died, and there's so much that's similar, right? All that anger and all that surprise, and also it's interesting how Obara speaks about Oberyn, and very, you know, we're hearing Cersei constantly be like, why wasn't he treated this way? Why wasn't he treated that way?

Why wasn't he, like, why didn't you guys do this, right? Because you're just losing your fucking mind and you can't be in your right mind because you're trying to contemplate how this person's gone out of your life. And Obara says in the last chapter, does he know my father's dead? Paying the maester no more mind than she would a fly, if any fly had been foolish enough to buzz about her head. He does, the captain said. He had a bird. The same question is heard on every tongue.

What will Doran do? What will his brother do to avenge our murdered prince? And you say he does not wish to be disturbed. There's some, like, you know, that power of grief that drives you in that moment in anger of, like, this is all I have to get through it. Just like grasping to this like one small piece of organization as the entire world has fallen away. Yeah, absolutely. That's a fantastic parallel of how they're dealing with their grief.

I don't know, the desire that something must happen. Yes. There must be action. You have to keep moving because if you don't like, then you have to sit with like, you have to sit with the grief. And I think- Then it's real. It's fascinating, right? Because she's coming to this a few chapters after the death of her son. And I think the thing is, the hole that she says is, when you lose someone, the hole will never be filled.

Like, yeah, there's a power vacuum, and yes, absolutely, someone's gonna try to fill it, right? But when it comes to grief and loss, that hole is never going to be filled, you just have to learn to live with them, to build around them. And... seriously, this doesn't strike me as someone who was taught, like, how to have strong mental health. Probably, mostly a lot of it was Tywin's fault, but... Mm-hmm. Yeah, she never stopped blaming Tyrion, I guess, for the death of her mother. Instead of, I don't know, really, really sitting with those feelings. Major displacement, yeah.

Yeah. Just like Tywin. That is actually very, wow. Yeah. She's right. Maybe she's right. Fuck. What? Cersei thinks she must move quickly as she had when Robert died. She thinks this must be Stannis through a cat's paw, a prelude to an attack on the city. But none of these men frighten her, she thinks. She was a daughter of the Rock, a lion. There'll be no more talk of forcing me to wet again. Casterly Rock was hers now, and all the power of House Lannister. No one would ever disregard her again."

God, that like piece of grief of like the whole chapter, she's spending it like trying to ratify like Tywin was one person, right? And she's learning he's actually been like 50 different people, but specifically several different people to her. Right. The Lord's face for Ned we talk about, but Tywin has a variant of that, and in one breath she is refusing to admit who was going to make her wet again. Who? Who was going to make Cersei get married again? Right? She's grieving this man and trying to find a way to grieve him, and look, Tywin was emotionally, verbally, and sexually abusive.

Not all of those things at once all the time to all of his children, but all of his children were abused by him. One way or another. And I don't know, maybe that's not always talked about, but it's not normal that with every other Bratz, Cersei has tried to win her father's approval. That she thinks on him sharing a very special smile that only they understand that she can earn, but yet then married her to a man who would rape her and hit her if it meant he could have a stranglehold on an entire nation, right? Like,

those two things, Tywin the Lord was also still Tywin the Father and failed her. I think, yeah, that's absolutely, that's a fantastic observation because, you know, sometimes people talk about, and this is a little different, like, when you are caretaking someone who is terminally ill, and there are conflicting feelings, right? If they pass away, and then there is, for some people, not everyone, a sense of relief. And she isn't willing to let herself admit that the person who died was her captor, and that now she's more free without him here. And then she was before.

It's scary when that's all you know, though. It's very scary to try to go to that new world. I mean, it sounds like her father provided a lot of structure, I guess, in their lives. It wasn't a good structure. The structure was a cage, but it was a structure. And, you know, she's saying now no one, like she's saying no one frightens me. No one frightens me. No one's ever frightened me. And it sounds like her father frightened her a lot.

Yeah. And all the kids, as you said, he was not a good dad. And one day we're going to get the War of the Ninepenny Kings and Blood and Fire and we're going to get to dig into this. And there's a lot of lack of honesty that Cersei has with herself. Like, the opening of the chapter just showed us that she is very frightened, especially of Tyrion. Which, I don't know, maybe she is why she can't admit that this murder is by him. Which I think is also hilariously ironic

until, you know, the end where you have Tyrion getting credit for all the murders he didn't do, but like no one wants to give him credit right now for the one that he actually fucking did, like damn, and I mean, everyone does give him credit for it. But the desire for the Iron Throne, for Casterly Rock and for power, like that's how she sees her path to freedom.

And as you said, it's not having to be married off to a man who rapes her, and that also very much ties into that dream of her being naked and her flesh torn apart, because that is, to an extent, what it felt like for her, even if she won't say it and admit it to herself. what it felt like for her, even if she won't say it and admit it to herself. Yeah, absolutely. Ugh. Dimensional. What a character. Thank you, George.

Yeah. The sun begins to rise against the red towers, and Cersei thinks it is not fitting for Tywin to die alone. She- Well, don't worry. Cause he didn't. Don't worry! She tells the guards at the Tower of the Hand that no one is to leave or enter without her permission, and within she ascends.

She's really proud of that order too, and I will say, as you echoing your don't worry, but also it sounds like she's really into ancient Egyptian burial rites. Oh, oh. A cultural queen, we stan. Yeah. Um. RIP, Cersei, you would have loved ancient Egypt. Gosh. She's not there yet.

There is something in this too that's just so, um... I don't know, just so like fucking sad about how she like is so upset, like I should have been the first to know, I should have been the first to know and every person, as she sees them, she's like recounting as we go through this hall, she's like so-and-so's here and they know, so-and-so's here and we have this great little snippet here. with it. Real. Men are muttering condolences to her. She keeps climbing. The guards and servants shrink back before her once she reaches the halls. How do they all know? She thinks. She should have known first. She was Queen Regent while they-

Girl, you were his daughter. You should- I mean, as you said. But of course she wasn't gonna know, like you guys don't have phones. Like what were they gonna do? Like say nothing's wrong, stay here, don't open the door. And then like, I'm sure every single one of those men and serving women were like, Oh fuck. Like, Oh shit dude, they're gonna think it was us. We're gonna get our heads chopped off for real for real

yeah that's true so Meryn Trant stands at the door to the bed chamber and she tells him to clear them asking if her father is still in the privy no they had carried him to his bed and her uncle Kevin this is actually really sad too he's he's so sad gaping so fucking sad it's really sad. He's there at the side of the bed, and he's trying and failing to pray, and guardsmen are clustered near the hole in the hearth, and it's no bigger than an oven, which is apparently a perfect size for Tyrion, but he's in a black cell, of course, and she's like, it must be Stannis. She tells herself, or the Tyrells, and I think don't be silly, Stannis only murders slash assassinates his own family members. That's a joke.

He kills a lot of other people too. Really indikin' slaying though. Yeah. Yeah. Not Tywin. God. Maegor the Cruel had killed the men who built the castle to keep the secret passages, well, secret. She wonders how many other bedchambers had doors, imagining Tyrion crawling out with blade in hand in Tommen's room.

She tells herself, he's well guarded, but so was Tywin! When I read that little line, the exact like wording really struck me about adornish men like jumping out of Tommen's dresser basically is what she's saying with a dagger and I'm like or a blade and I'm like actually though that could be it I mean. Oh just like Bran. Yeah a lot yeah a cat spa. I mean... Oh, just like Bran. Yeah, a lot. Yeah. A cat spa. But I mean, they're coming. I don't know, Riptomen killed by Nym's blades. I just feel like it could come true. Killed by something, yeah.

Definitely the Dornish. Probably. Or herself, or by Cersei. Without meaning it. Something's coming for that kid. I don't think he's jumping out of the window, first of all. I just, like, I don't think it's gonna be like that. No. Realistically, at this point, I'm like, Helena style, probably Myrcella would be the closer one, but...

I don't know, I'm sticking to my, we all know, the Chloe theory that they're gonna crown Marcella You know they're soft launching Cersei being a queen soft launching Danny being a queen Gotta start with a couple woman first and it's gonna be just like when Amy and Veep blows up on Selena and is like now we're not gonna have any more girl presidents cuz you ruined it and That's what's gonna happen because of Cersei and everyone's gonna be like oh no Danny And that's what's gonna happen, because of Cersei and everyone's gonna be like, Oh no, Dany can't have anymore. Or she could be like, Leora Montez. Yeah, that's true.

Laura. Laura. Laura Montez. Yeah, and that's, I'm thinking of Amy Bruckheimer's speech. Exactly, literally. Oh my gosh. Kymar speech. Exactly, literally. Oh my gosh. We as a fandom talk a lot about Catalin as a Cassandra-like figure, but I actually think there's merit in that for Cersei. Merit. Ha! Not Merit Frey. He's dead too. Rip.

Cersei also kind of can be a Cassandra-like figure, not as much externally. She's not telling many people her fears, but interesting that a lot of the stuff in this chapter that she's saying is going to come true, is true, like that her paranoia of everybody likes the broken clock twice a day, ha ha, when it comes to Cersei, and I'm like, no, I mean, she's actually just paranoid enough that she's overthought everything. Like me. I get it. I understand this feeling. I have anxiety. I've thought of every single response, action, and everything I would get in return for it already, you know? So I get it. She's already figured it all out. But, that's also a lot of the ways that Cat and Cersei really do intersect.

There's more than just that, right? That assertiveness right there of like, I know the right thing to do, my way is the right way. Cat's counsel obviously is a little softer delivered at times. Delivered more deftly at times maybe is the better thing, but it would be so fun. Could you imagine as an author getting the chance to have two characters that are mothers, but very different distinctly, but also very similar distinctly with their personalities? Cat and Cersei have a lot of similarities, they have a lot of differences. I can't believe that George, like, and that's not it. There's more than just them, but what author has that many?

This is incredible. Not saying there aren't authors that have that. Just for cause-wise. Yeah, Mark Cherry. Mark Cherry. Listen. Wow. Every author could have this if they wanted.

That's the point. This is the world that liberals want. You have these two women that were raised to serve, right? Their husbands physically, politically, spiritually, in their flesh, to give them children, to serve their own family, their houses, to checkbox all these rules. Like, they're made to watch their families die before their eyes, powerless. And in Dorne we have Aerys Oakheart and Aerio Hota as Kingsguard, hovering around the death that just occurred. Right, Aerio Hota in his own way as Kingsguard.

And then here you see the Kingsguard and it's so loud and surprising how bad they are at their jobs and just how they like, they're not present. They don't have real personalities. None of these guys are treated singularly or as one person, like Aereo and Aresar. These are just lackeys in Cersei's chapter. Like, King's Landing is completely in a downfall, and it just really provides a great backdrop for all of this. really provides a great backdrop for all of this. Yeah, and I think what really punctuates how a lot of them are slackies in Cersei's chapter,

a lot of people, and I think this is the point, right, can't tell the kettle blacks apart. Mm-hmm. They're also interchangeable. Yep. Absolutely about them being these Cassandra-like characters, and I kind of understand to an extent, too, like, how is Cersei gonna tell anyone her fears? Like, how do you just go around to being like, yeah, an old woman in a tent told me these things and so I'm really afraid of them. No, you're gonna look crazy!

No, legitimately. Especially like with your station too. Like, who you are. Yeah! Everyone's gonna be like, uh, wow, we're definitely not gonna listen to you anymore. Yeah, I mean, it's actually something similar to what goes on in Danny's chapters too, right? Being like, so I went into this this kind of haunted house and I saw a bunch of stuff and these people tried to eat me. Oh, tearing at her flesh. Okay. Anyways. Oh, it tears them all apart.

Yeah. Seeking the throne. Wow. Wow. That chair's not that cool. They should have just all bought a hand chair like Mace. It's not very ergonomic. The Mace chair is way better. Let me introduce them. Okay, I'm gonna find some cooler chairs for them. Like, it's a little overplayed now. The Eames chair, the Wassily chair, those are all over, and reproductions of those as well.

Anyways. And I mean, I know they're poor these days, so, a King's Landing. That's true, that's true. Broke bitches. When Circe finally looks at Tywin, she doesn't recognize this man. Who is this man? He was smaller, older, his bedrobe hiked up, and the quarrel in between his navel and cock, his pubic hair stiff with dried blood. That's not special.

That's his fupa. His fat upper pussy area. Oh gosh. Tywin's fupa. That's gonna be my new screen name. Tywin's fupa. That should be. Oh my god, someone should make that a handle everywhere. Please. It's you. I guess I gotta. You're a burden now.

Unless someone beats me to it. If you guys beat me to it, listeners at home. Congrats. You deserve it. Congrats, it's yours. Think of me every time you log in. Think of me. Think of me fairly. When you look at Taiwan's Goopa. Talk about Taiwan's Goopa.

The shame of his... Okay, yeah. So she's really aghast at all of this. And the shame of his nakedness. And I think that really stands out again. I think the dream at the beginning of this chapter sets the stage for everything. So you have her being like, this is shameful, nakedness is shameful, with all that, and then you have this line,

Take the quarrel out of him! This is the king's hand! And my father, my lord father, should I scream and tear my hair? They said Catelyn Stark had clawed her own face to bloody ribbons when the fray slew her precious rob. Would you like that, Father? She wanted to ask him. Or would you want me to be strong? Did you weep for your own father? I think this is a brilliant paragraph.

Thank you for calling it out, Chloe. I think it does a great job. Thank you for calling it out, Chloe. I think it's it does a great job of grief is so complex. We have a whole episode on it on Patreon because I was like big sad at that time. But like, there's a lot of things to discuss about it of what are the societal expectations of grief. There's so many rights around it versus what are our own ways of grieving. And I do think like, a, not only do I think that George explores this, I think he's going to be exploring it even more and wins because a lot

more people are going to die. But I think what's really sad to acknowledge is like, a lot of people in his life have also that he loves have been passing away. And I think we're going to get that a lot more. But and you know, people talked about the way that they felt that Sam didn't grieve right in the show, which... The show's stupid. I'm sorry, wait. The show's stupid. But I also think it's valid to have those complex

feelings of like, hey, I'm sad that my daddy was abusive to me, fucking died. Like, that's valid. And I think Circe doesn't know what to do, because people don't know what to do immediately in that moment She's looking for the right way to behave and She's still looking for how to do it according to Tywin She's asking do you approve of this way of grieving instead of letting herself experience whatever her own way of grief is

Even when he's dead. Yeah, she's living her life tethered on that golden string to him still living her life tethered on that golden string to him still. Ugh. Sad. We gotta free her. I gotta free that girl. Well. I'm coming for you, Cersei. I'm gonna get you out of there, girlfriend.

I'm coming for you. Oh, wow. Are you Robert Strong? Oh my God. I am Ser Robert Strong. Wow, I'm Ser Robert, no, I'm really not. All of us are Sir Robert Strong. No, I'm really not. All of us are Sir Robert Strong. When Cersei was one, her grandfather died, his heart burst as he climbed the steps to

see his mistress. We talked about this with Steff Lyoness last week. Thanks, Steff, for coming on. Tywin had been the Hand of the King to Ares at the time, and if he had wept, he did it where no one could see. I forgot to catch that because um, she's thinking there's so many fucking steps in this tower, and she's climbing at one point. Yeah, absolutely, like there's just too many fucking tower of the Hand steps, it reminds me of Dragonstone. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, shit's hard. Like, there's no elevators. Well, you think about it, and I'm like, maybe when they raised the keep, like, they were thinking of Dragonstone stairs for the Tower of the Hand someday. Oh, maybe.

I don't know. Hmm. Cersei demands they begin ringing the bells for him as they ring for Robert and bathe and dress him in cloth of gold and crimson silk, calling for Pycelle to see to him. But it turns out, Pycelle, his boyfriend, had already been there and called the Silent Sisters to tend to him. He didn't even like stop and, you know, doll him up a little. The realization then hits. They came for Cersei last.

She calls for other maesters and asks where Jaime is. He's deep within the tunnel. Immediately she panics. She wants to shout, he only has one hand! You guys should have gone in his place! She's very worried about his safety, and probably a little worried that the monster that ate her dad is going gonna eat Jamie too. One very brave maester arrives to serve Cersei, a great guy. His name is Qyburn, chainless.

Not sus at all, but here to serve. He tells her he was the one that saved Jaime, the person she's yelling in a panicked mode about. Maybe even save his life. She commands him to remove the quarrel from Tywin's belly and ready him for the Silent Sisters. Qyburn then says, what should I do about the girl? And she's like, what are you talking about?

And then she's like, oh. Wow. There she is. Shea. naked, cold, pink, except for her blackened face, a chain of golden hands buried into her throat. It's the way they introduce that in this chapter is so good. And really sad, like as you were saying, and teasing earlier, like seriously got what she wanted, Tywin doesn't enter death alone. God. There was a girl with him and it's actually really sad rereading those lines and what

happens here and the dehumanization of Shay. Like back in the Catlin chapters we talked about a long, long time, about the way that lower class women's bodies are devalued so that the value of the upper class women's bodies is heightened, right? And that's what the system forces them to do to one another. And this also makes me think a lot about Meat House Man, like the way that Shay is described as just a corpse, the naked, cold pink feels very meat-like.

And for a long time in this passage, until later when Cersei remembers it, she's just called The Girl, right? She's got no name, and she's just described as like, the Imp's whore, and, you know, doesn't even belong to herself. She doesn't even get to be her own person. She has to belong to some someone else, some man, and that loss of personhood as Cersei wonders like, what's the girl doing here naked? And she's just a body, and it also again like an echo, it's a reminder of Cersei's fears at the beginning of this chapter. And I don't know, like when you we don't see this during Tyrion's chapter, but the way that her neck, the skin is broken by how fiercely Tyrion strangled her, like, that's really sad. Like, it's... it was already painful, you know,

that she's being strangled. But turns out it was even more painful in a way that I didn't think about. And, you know, Circe suggesting, there are many suggestions she gives to the people later of what to do with Shay's body. She's like, I don't know what to do with it, feed it to the dogs? It's another thing, again, echoing Circe's flesh torn by the throne. And then she also says, I don't know, you can keep her for a bedmate. And I'm like, ha, meat house man again. And she also says, I don't know, you can keep her for a bedmate. And I'm like, ha, meat house man again. And, and, and then when they're like, she emphasizes this girl was never here. And it's just really sad that like, Shay was murdered and her life is erased.

Her name is erased. Her entire existence is just erased as they hide her body. So only Tywin matters. And then her name just becomes an afterthought later and she's like oh yeah Shay her name was Shay and she's like whatever I interviewed her yesterday whatever and and you know many of the things that Circe has them do to Shay are exactly the things that she fears they will do to her. Isn't it crazy that like the the economy for being a woman in this society and having power means that there's such a limited pool of power, right?

And Cersei believes that she cannot share any of it, or there is none. Like, for her, she can't even spend the time on a lower level because then she loses it. It's so... it's... did you watch the new industry this week? Yes, I was actually literally going to just say that I don't wanna spoil it. I was just gonna say, it's them or me, and I'm not spoiling, but there's a line from a character that very much revolves around a lot of these ideals, and she screams into a phone, it's either them or me. And that's Cersei Lannister all the way. All the way. I was literally gonna say that also and be like, not spoiling, but it reminds me of a character in the industry. And like, she doesn't- it's not even in this- just this season, right? It happens in previous seasons with this character too.

And I'm like, it's the same. And that- and like, what else can you- there are obviously other things you can do, right? Yeah. Whatever. I'm not saying she had no other choices, but you know. I'm not- I don't expect Cersei to get on her knees weeping and say, this is so sad, but um, no, Cersei is not the type of person to do that in this scenario. Yeah. Because how could her dad die the same way that her dad's dad died? That, and then also she thinks, wait, so he did this thing?

He was someone who partook in this thing that I kind of like hated that my husband did? Mm-hmm. You know, like Robert was very... Felt short of a lot of people's expectations, especially Cersei's. Mm-hmm. We'll dig into that more one day. Yep. But...

It turns out that men ain't shit. Well, no, not Tywin. He shat a lot. That's what I learned in Tyrion's chapter. We have a line that I love very much and included. Cersei hiss like an angry cat. Yes! At the sight of Shae. I just love that. I love that immediately she sees Shae and she goes, Cersi hiss like an angry cat. Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss It's Libra's season. It's Libra's season. Uh. Cersei thinks that Tywin would never hire a sex worker, telling the guardsmen about her father and her grandfather, how her grandfather's mistress was wearing Tywin's mother's jewels

and dresses, and then Tywin had her paraded through the streets of Lannisport. Don't give them ideas. That was how Lord Tywin Lannister dealt with whores. He never- this woman was here for some other purpose, not for- How devastating that she's just like telling this story, which is like, girl, if you're worried about how you look to people, why are you telling the story right now? If you're so concerned about you and your father?" And it's really, that's the truth. She's coming to grips. She's like, all of these things she's saying, she's trying to somehow put them into her brain and let them live rationally in the same fucking brain together, right?

And it's like, what? This doesn't compute. You cannot divide by zero. Um, yeah, and she's trying to defend him that it's for her, it's not, it is for her. Like, what she's saying is to make her feel better, not the guardsman, right? But she's almost like saying that she's saying it for the guardsman, for his men, for Kevan. It's just crazy realizing your entire worldview is a lie, and we hear some of that in Clash with Sansa, right? And when you look at the Jaime chapters in this book, and the Brienne chapters, you have a lot of great speeches from Jaime that also kind of exemplify all of this, right? Like when he talks about being in the Kingsguard at Harrenhal in the baths. Talking about all of the vows you have to swear, and that you you have to please your father and you have to please this person and that.

That's also Cersei's life, even though we don't necessarily get a speech like that. And I don't know, that realization that she's Sansa gone wrong, right, but at a nuclear level. Yeah, absolutely. I like what you're saying about, you know, the realization that your worldview, like everything's a lie and like, something that I'm seeing in George's short stories is that this is an idea he's very interested in. What do you do when you realize this thing you've been told your whole life is a lie? when you realize this thing you've been told your whole life is a lie. And A Song of Ice and Fire does explore that, we're getting that on a macro level with these different myths and legends and how that gets passed down over history, but what's really strong about it is how you get that on this individual level as well, right? Like what you're saying with Cersei finding out like, oh shit, Dad's... Dad has sex.

shit, dad's dad has sex. And there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that she's experiencing from this information and it goes against her beliefs about who she thinks her Taiwan is. And as you've been pointing out, like there's a lot of confusion she's dealing with right now. She's, she's grieving, like this is a whole shock. And so she can't integrate this information and update her understanding of her father. Instead, she just rewrites reality thanks to Qyburn. And this is also another ongoing theme throughout the books of like, the perception of

someone versus the reality of them. Like Robert does this with Leona, and he never updates his idea of her. He's like, I don't know, she's fucking perfect. Perfect angel, as you said, and Brianne, Brianne actually has to do it in a very interesting way when it comes to Jaime and update her idea of him being a king slayer. Missing a G. And then Jaime actually even has to do this with Sears, being like, well, what do you mean? She sleeps with people who aren't him and who aren't Robert for funsies. And Tyrion has to update his idea of Jaime from like protective older brother to like, oh wait, he was complicit in my betrayal with my father. And then Tyrion also has to update his idea of Tysha, right? From gold digger is what he was told to someone who actually loved him and that he fucking let down. And I think of this in contrast with Daenerys and honestly, like,

getting on my soapbox. I think people get really down on Dany for no reason in regards to like, not wanting to hear about Aerys, her own father, and like who he truly was from Barristan. She doesn't say she doesn't want to hear it. She's just like, hey, I don't have the space for this right now. Okay, just like not right now. That's so different from never. And I think that's valid. And I think that would have been a valid response for Cersei too, to be like, hey, I can't really process this right now. Right? Like that's why maybe maybe no one call her in for the preparations

and to do all this stuff because you're the daughter and you're grieving. I don't know. You don't you just don't have to process it all right now. But unfortunately, like she's been taught that strength means being unfeeling, because that's what Tywin told all of his children. And so Circe can't deal with this cognitive dissonance, and she can't deal with showing weakness, or being like, hey, I can't deal with this right now. And so she's also struggling to believe that Tyrion could have killed their father.

She rewrites all of reality. And honestly, I'm not sure if this is the first big one she does, maybe it is, but the stories that it's very much about the stories that we tell ourselves to keep going and and maybe that's a big part of what Cersei's chapters are about. Can I get a Malara? What are the stories? Right, right, like what are the stories we tell ourselves so that we can just keep going? She's a survivor. Of her best friend. Yeah, well, that little bitch wanted Jaime. What was she supposed to do? Listen, I'm not gonna argue about this. We're not there yet. Yeah, no, but that's a good one. I think, like, this is the first big one that we see, maybe.

But that's a good one. Thank you. Thanks. No, you're so on that though. Heather's food. Exactly. That cognitive dissonance, I love that. Oh, it's terrible. Well, let's tell more lies to get through it with Cersei.

Wow, is it all lies forever? Yes. Yes, is it all lies forever? Yes, yes it is. Kyburn is really positioning himself interestingly in this chapter, right, when she's kind of crying, panicked about Jaime, he shows up and he's like, Jaime, I saved Jaime's life. And here he's currying a little favor by offering her kind of an out during this, saying, well maybe Lord Tywin was questioning her about Sansa Stark's disappearance. And Cersei's like, yes, yes, you must be right. And in her mind she sees Tyrion, leering, whispering, what better way to question her

than naked with her legs spread. She then turns away, she's unable to look at Shay, and she pushes out into the hall. She tells the Kettle Black brothers to ensure that no one knows about the girl, and that she'd cut the tongue out of any man who dares to speak of her. Oh my god, I just realized another way she's like Tywin, she's like, I can't accept that this thing is happening just like Tywin probably was like, I can't accept that my like twin children are fucking. Yeah. Well, I just realized that. Um.

If he just would have acknowledged their child bang sessions that turned into lifetime bang sessions both in their lifetime and in the movies. Adult- he became adult bang sessions, holy shit. Barely. I mean, they're basically 30 year old girls. What are you talking about? They're just girls. I mean, so am I.

Yeah. Well, I'm 27, but I get what you mean. Interesting. Um. What's interesting about my age? I don't think that's an interesting age to be. I think life is really- I just thought 27 was higher than I thought you were gonna say.

That's why I was like, interesting. It changes. It changes. Most people's ages do change, that's so true, Bestie. We're saying like, someone's tongue is gonna be torn out for this, also made me think of Ill and Payne's tongue being torn out by Ares for saying, you know who really rules the Seven Kingdoms? Tywin. Mm. Yeah. Why cut the tongue out if someone's just speaking truths? Mm mm mm. Dropping them truth bombs. That's why.

Illin Payne was bringing the pain. Yo. Yo. Illin Payne apologist here. He's straight illin, you know what I mean? Listen. Listen. Cersei finally remembers Shae's name. Shae what I mean? Listen. Listen. Cersei finally remembers Shay's name. Shay. Her name was Shay. Interesting how George writes that in Cersei's chapter, and later we have Jane.

Her name is Jane, right? I find that- This is some Robert Paulson shit. I'm sorry, Fight Club, all over. All over again. Cersei watches them bundle Shay up and remembers when she last spoke to the girl the night before the trial. Shae had asked after jewels that Tyrion had given her, and also some promises Cersei made

her, a manse in the city, a knight to marry. But Cersei would not have given her anything unless Shae was going to give her Sansa's whereabouts, refusing to believe that Shae didn't know anything about where Sansa went. I mean, she was her maid. Cersei commands that the Kettleblacks return the Hand's Chain from her neck, unscratched, and then gestures that they go through the secret passage and take the shaft to the dungeons. Jaime emerges then, telling the Kettleblacks to get out of his way. Cersei asks if he found the killers and how many there were.

Elimeo won. Uh, Jean- he did find him too. Elimeo. Elimeo. Well, I found him before he committed the murder. In fact, it might be my fault. The rusted development intro. Only murders in the castle.

New podcast. I'm on season four, by the way. I can't wait. I'm very excited That's that's the current one, right? Yeah, bitch. Yeah, bitch. I finished season three finally Wow, I think I'm gonna watch the new episode for this week tonight. Oh shit What did Jamie did Jamie tells her that it goes down to dozens of tunnels with iron gates chained and locked, a maze dark. VB- I love that we have this maze of tunnels because we have that maze kind of in the Citadel with Pate, right?

VB- Yeah. VB- I actually forgot that, yeah. VB- Interesting. VB- Oh, do you want to be Cersei? Or... VB- How do you want to cast this? VB- I'll do whatever you want. I'll let you. All must choose. Chloe must choose. I'll be Cersei this time. You can be the Jaime line at the end. I'll get really intimate, get ready. Oh, okay.

She imagined Tyrion creeping between the walls like some monstrous rat. No, you're being silly. The dwarf is in his cell. Take hammers to the walls. Knock this tower down if you must. I want them found. Whoever did this, I want them killed. Jaime hugged her, his good hand pressing against the small of her back. He smelled of ash, but the morning sun was in his hair, giving it a golden glow. She wanted to draw his face to hearse for a kiss. Later, she told herself, later he will come to me for comfort.

We are his heirs, Jaime. It will be up to us to finish his work. You must take Father's place as Hand. You see that now. Surely Tommen will need you." He pushed away from her and raised his arm, forcing a stump into her face. A hand without a hand. A bad jape, sister. Don't ask me to roll. Ah damn. Rejected. Stump into her face. I do kind of wonder if the monster's rat language here is what gave George the idea that he guarded later on for blood and cheese. He's like, I like that. I like that idea. I'm gonna make more. I love that for the rat part because I'm definitely seeing that with these tunnels. Like, very much you can feel the blood and cheese coming off of it, and I don't think it's the end of the tunnels either.

I feel like we will see further happen with these tunnels in T-WOW, like maybe that's part of the Tommen stabby stab, who knows. Oh dang, yeah. Oh, but he's got like, I don't know, people theorize that the cats will play into it somehow, which is kind of funny. Ironic. Good cats. Everyone hears what Jaime says to her. Qyburn, the kettle of blacks, Kevin, the guardsman, and Cersei feels the heat on her cheeks and tells him that she will rule until Tommen is of age. And he's like,

I don't know who I pity more, Tommen or the Seven Kingdoms? She slaps him for that. And he tries to stop her, but he uses his arm with his missing hand and so his falls a little short as she leaves red marks on his cheek and Kevin stands intervening telling them to take this outside and Jamie asks for forgiveness saying Cersei is sick with grief and forgets herself and honestly that was pretty fucked up of Jamie to say in public like I know he's probably grieving too and also very much blaming himself because he did see the killer right before the murder happened and freed him, but you know, whatever. He's got a lot going on too, but like that was that was not a smart move and also I will say good on Cersei. She actually names all the guardsmen who are here. Good on her for knowing all their names.

And then Kevin, actually the words are like like have the decency to take your quarrel outside. I'm like, ah, puns, puns. Oh damn, they kill the funny one. That's too bad. They're gonna kill all of them eventually, don't worry. There's a lot going on with that intimacy and how each of them take this, right? Like Cersei looks to him for security, for comfort, for him to say, he, who she can trust, will take this role as Hand of the King, right? A worry, basically. Take this worry off of her.

Um, and she very- for her, like, that's like, she needs something like that to feel safe again. Right? That's her looking for comfort in how she looks for it, and he pushes her away. And, you know, I just think there's something really interesting in those grieving styles and that like, Jamie won't open himself up to it at all. And of course too, it's like, it's interesting because for Cersei, like, he's right, like, why would he do that? Because it's the shittiest job in the world, as she's about to say. VB- True. VB- And, yeah, I don't know, there's just something about it, like, because then he doesn't- he- he- control, right?

Like, for her, she'll feel in control and safer if he's there, but for him, he'll feel that he's controlled. VB- Well, also he wants to isolate himself, too, because he feels a bunch of guilt, which... I mean, if I were Jaime, I would feel a lot of guilt too, about being like, So I freed my brother who killed my dad. For sure. For certain. And I mean, he can't- that's the thing, like same as how Cersei can't tell anyone. I really fear Tyrion because of his prophecy.

Jaime can't tell anyone, so... I freed my brother. These things create a barrier between them. Absolutely. The secrets that we have. Absolutely. Wow. Realistically, Cersei thinks she wants to slap Jaime again and abolish the Hand of the

King role. They've all been pretty terrible and the next Hand will know his place, she thinks, and that will be Ser Kevin. She had a vision for the realm, but needs obedient, lame men to rule it and definitely not Tyrell's. Lord Mace was frustrating and the city was full of his men. Tyrells. Lord Mace was frustrating, and the city was full of his men. She's even madder thinking about how Tywin agreed to marry Tom into Margaery, who's twice his age, twice widowed, and questionably a virgin. Cersei thinks, she wed Renly first, and a man may prefer the taste of Hippocrates. Yet if you set a tankard of ale before him, he'll quaff it quick enough. Okay, I don't know about that, Cersei. Yeah, let me tell you, genitals are pretty different from alcohol.

Let's start there. This is the beginning of her exploration of her sexuality, so we'll go easy on her, you know. Oh, that's interesting. That's a good take on it. Thank you. I like that. We'll see where it takes her over the next books. She thinks she'll ask Varys to find out more, and then stops and realizes, where the fuck

is Varys? He's always here, and she thinks, that's not a good sign, he's probably involved. Again, point. Point made, right there. But then she thinks, he must have made common cause with Stannis. She commands Meryn Trant to find and bring Varys, and no sooner does he depart than Boros Blount arrives panting, sinking to one knee. The imp is gone.

We have a line from Cersei. The dream was true. Ooh, I love how that's just written in there. The dream was true. Yeah. Just so, like, accepting in some aspects. Like, of course it fucking was., the dream was true. Yeah. Just so like, accepting in some aspects. Like, of course it fucking was. The dream was fucking true.

Hmm. So, Seer C, child of Ares, dragon, dreams confirmed? I'm joking. I'm joking. Look, I'm just saying that the last three POVs that we're doing are all potentially Targaryens. Potentially. They've all been theorized to be Targaryens at some point.

One even more so than everyone else. Yes. Allegedly, allegedly. One of the strong evidence comes from this. Whoa, whoa, not strong. We don't use that word here. Whoa. Sorry. So one of the jailers is missing, and two other men are found asleep, and Cersei wants to scream. The incompetence is staggering!

Just Selina Meyer. This entire book is just Selina Meyer. My gosh. We've actually been putting off, we practically finished our latest VEEP watchthrough. We have only the finale left and we're like, oh, I'm not ready for it to be over again. So we've just been putting it off for weeks. It always comes up so fast, like all of a sudden it'll be the last episode and I turn to my roommate and I'm like, what? VEEP's over again? God.

Well, because the other seasons are what, 13 episodes or more? And this one's only seven. And I was like, wow. I understand why it happened Like that, but also I'm just like Anyways, I can't wait till Cersei Lannister sacrifices her BFF anyways and No one can stop me. I mean she does kind of sacrifice her kids that is a Boatelina and interesting um why is that your hair, Marcella?

Oh my God, she would. She does that actually to Tommen. She literally does that to Tommen basically. I'll say that again next chapter just to tell you all now. Okay. Foreshadowing. Cersei tells him to make sure that they sleep forever, and I'm gonna be real, I don't know if it deserves death, but I don't think she's wrong for being mad that they're asleep. Yes, I would say, how much are you paying them?

Down in the dungeons. With honor! Yeah, uh, King's Landing Breakdown of all offices, right? Like, why would the people who work for you behave this way? Are they paid well? I mean, look at Mord in the Vale, right? Like, he's down to steal shit off people's body, slash try to get gold from people, super bribable. I can't think that the conditions are that great down there. Yeah. And then he gets a grill.

Mm-hmm. Rob Tyrion Targaryen, tell him make me a grill. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do Thinking of Tyrians are carried allegedly in the walls. He is in the walls. He killed father, as he killed mother, as he killed Joth. The dwarf would come for her as well, the Queen knew, just as the old woman had promised her in the dimness of that tent. I laughed in her face, but she had powers. I saw my future in a drop of blood, my doom. Her legs were weak as water. Ser Boros tried to take her by the arm, but the Queen recoiled from his touch, for all she knew, he might be one of Tyrion's creatures. Get away from me! Get away! She staggered to a settle. Your grace? Shall I fetch a cup of water?

It is blood I need, not water. Tyrion's blood, the blood of the Valonqar. The torches spun around her. Cersei closed her eyes and saw the dwarf grinning at her. No, she thought. No, I was almost rid of you. But his fingers had closed around her neck and she could feel them beginning to tighten. Egot's for all. You get an Egot. I get an Egot. We both get Egot's. By Zabora's Flown. Supporting cast. Supporting cast. Challengers. So close. She's so close, but so far. Every time. Ah, Cersei. So close. She's so close, but so far. Every time. Ah, Cersei.

So close. I love that this chapter is very short story feeling. You brought up a lot of George's novellas, novelettes, whatever the fuck you want to call each one. And just like how the chapter opens versus how it ends and introducing these new concepts and a new POV character, but also being able to close it round circle very easily. This could be a one-off chapter in some aspects and also bringing that familiarity and imbuing that sense of prophecy and that sense of paranoia and fulfilling prophecy and tragedy that George loves to play with. It makes me very excited to think about her chapters going forward in this more tragic way and in this kind of very, like, the sense of just, like is very short story feeling, and then you even get that reveal.

And it's interesting because you do get that reveal of It Was Tyrion All Along, even though we all knew, because we were there for the end of Storm of Swords. But, great. It was Tyrion all along. I need to start watching that show. Yeah, it's a strong start to the whole thing, and honestly, I really do think it would be funnier if like... Or just funny in general if Tyrion were the Valonqar, like if Cersei were right. Sometimes I really do think it could be and I... Strong close to the chapter of like A, first of all she's having a panic attack. As the she loses the ability to breathe but it really goes well with the idea of...

as she loses the ability to breathe, but it really goes well with the idea of Tyrion, and then again, like, the things that she has done to Shay's body as she erases this girl from her mind, that's how Shay fucking died. The fingers of, like, the many little hands on the chain closing around Shay's neck and tightening around it. And so the way that you see that interplay between Cersei and Shay and how she doesn't want to be, she imagines herself as better than, you know, someone whose body is being used. And that's what she's been fighting against and running from when it comes to Tywin, but... But it's coming for you too in the end.

But it might not, because he's dead. Mm-hmm. Other things are coming for you, like... The time your uncle says, yeah, maybe we should parade her naked in the streets. Fuck. God. Things are bleak for our heroine is what we're trying to say. Our protagonist!

Dude, yeah, she is our protagonist. Literally. Heroine interesting, yeah. I mean, that's the podcast, right? If every POV was their own protagonist, we're gonna cover them, so. Cersei is it. Cersei's it, y'all. Here we are.

We stand at, you know, water that has not been treaded. The podcast where you can find Cersei content weekly. Weekly. For 12 weeks you're gonna find Cersei content. That's insane. 12 weeks of Cersei. And on the second week of Cersei, exactly, we will give to you Cersei II. A feast for crows.

A portrait and a pear tree! We'll be back with Cersei II and a feast for crows. I'm so fucking hyped. That was so fucking good. God, you still got it after all these years. You're kind of a babe. I don't know if they know this. So do you, so do you. Thanks. And so does George. RR Martin.

Bb. Bb. Oh my god. Well, if you want to find us, we still got it, you can find us on social media, Girl's Gone Cannon on Twitter, that's C-A-N-O-N. Or I know a lot of you have thoughts. I think I'm anticipating we're gonna get a deluge of emails. I'm scared. Right? Like, girlsgoncanon at gmail.com. I know some of you have like fucking, you're pre-drafting your emails

right now, you're scheduling them to send. I know it. I know it. Some of you, I've been told. I know it. Some of, I've been told. I have too. Of other people too. Foreshadowing. God, we will, please be patient. We will try to get to as many emails as we can, but we have a lot of episodes to cover.

We have a lot of guests, like we said, great guests coming to you during this POV. And then we're at those final two POVs in All Must Choose and we'll talk more about that every single week. You are! The choice is an illusion, but... You have no choice. We already chose this order, but patreon.com slash girls gone canon you can see the order there in our pinned post so far, the order so far. So take a look at that, our

episode guide, and that's something available for everyone, public, but there's tons of stuff for free and tons of stuff that you can get by giving us a little tip, a little pledge of your loyalty, subscribe to Girls Gone Cannon on there, and our patrons are going to tell you a little bit more and about where you can find us online. You can catch Girls Gone Cannon on any of the following streamers on Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Spotify, Overcast, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Audible, and Amazon Podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the thunder tier above, you have

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VB- Those kids, they keep me young. My god. A- They keep you 27. VB- They keep me 24 every day. A- Like you said. VB- They're so powerful. VB- Age changes. I changed it. A- I was surprised. I just felt like 27 was like much higher than we usually go. I just felt like 27 was much higher than we usually go. Both laugh. We'll be back with more Circe. We're in our unhinged era and we are loving it. Uh, see you next time. We are.

I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. See you next week. Oh no. Goodbye. Goodbye.