Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 233 — AFFC Cersei V

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

It's hard to juggle work-life balance when you're Cersei. Where to find Maddy: https://twitter.com/madeleinewintr --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 2333, Circe 5, and A Feast for Crows. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes, we are continuing with Circe's day-to-day activities, her job, and home life, work-life balance. They hate to see a girl boss winning and that's gonna be the rest of the theme of Cersei's chapters. Well, we have some exciting news next week for Cersei 6. Oh my god. Oh my god, I'm very excited about this. I can't even like wait till after housekeeping.

I'm gonna give you the good stuff now. Wow. I know you're ready. That's how excited it is. The good stuff. Yeah, usually we edge a little. Yeah, I can't even edge you because I'm just so excited about this. Especially because I feel like we just had a pre-meeting on this episode in some aspects, me, you, and this guest that we're about to announce. Our very good friend Maddie is going to come on to talk about Cersei, our very first Cersei guest. Super excited. Maddie is coming on, of course, for a faith-focused Cersei chapter, so I'm so excited to get her takes. We will link her Twitter below because I feel like if you're on Twitter, you've probably seen Maddie's

tweets. She is our green queen, our one team green, the only team green in the club I respect. Just kidding. We respect a lot of team green people, but yes, Maddie is very much team green, and you may remember her coming on. If you listen to our critically acclaimed award-winning coverage, Unleash the D, hosted by one of your hosts, Chloe. I am in tears. Thank you, Eliana. That was very kind. And as you might know, Eliana was a guest host this season. We're really hoping she can come back with maybe even a more permanent status next two years. Wow, recurring guest. When we come back with Unleash the D. What if Unleash the D comes back before Night of the Seven Kingdoms? Would you guys be so fucking pissed?

How mad would you be if you like logged on, it's like three weeks before Night of the Seven Kingdoms and there's an Unleash the D Night of the Seven Kingdoms in your inbox? Yeah, what if we just kept calling it that? I don't know, we could. But it could actually work Unleash the D for Dunk. Yeah. Yeah, Dunk. But the dragon also, like, because of the prophecy at the beginning. Oh, I was thinking about, like, the little ring, too. Oh, the ring, yeah. Ag. Ag is the dragon. Unleash it. Hang on.

The dragon, the D, the... Anyways, back to Maddie. Back to... wait, I was like, whoa, wait, we got off track. We got off track. Yeah, I'm just, like, really excited to have Maddie on. Maddie, the parts about the faith as you were talking about is great. I mean, in the pre-meeting that we had with Maddie, both she and I came up with the prompt Catholicism, but I was passing to a different person this prompt, so I did a different prompt, but I also, if it was going to Maddie, it was gonna be Catholicism, but I got Catholicism from her. I was like, oh my god, I thought the same thing.

Yeah, I feel like I guess I could have just said Catholicism. Maddie's going to be great at this chapter because of Catholicism. No, couldn't be more excited to have her on for this episode, and I am thinking you all are going to enjoy it as well, and we will have a handful more of guests this season. That's not it. We have other guests to come. We're just getting warmed up. The D is just being unleashed. The C, the Cersei. Unleash the C has its own special ring to it, too. Huh. Huh. Thinking about it. Thinking of shirts, headbands, sweatpants.

Okay. Okay. Let's jump into some housekeeping. Last month, you might just have heard it. Uh, if you're on our Patreon in the stranger tier and above, that's $5 and up, you get access to special episodes Every single month this month this past month October. We did Sand Kings by George RR Martin BB Martin, I really loved Sand Kings I really can't wait for you guys to hear it if you haven't heard the episode yet, please

Sign up and listen because I really I don't know these short stories from Georgie's novellas. I'm very into them. And this one was – there was a lot of Aves Swaffiness in it, but also a lot of very creepy, awesome sci-fi and just stuff I think that you all, if you haven't already read it, might actually really like. If you're into us, you might be into these toy soldier creatures that you'll learn about from Simon. It's interesting because actually he was going to make a whole series about Shade and Woe and then just never continued it. Oh my god.

Stop, stop. No, really, really. That doesn't. Anyway, tune into our coverage of Sun Kings. Don't depress me. You can hear more about that, Sun Kings for more thoughts on this. Also another place you can tune into us is on our Discord at the ThunderTyrn above. You can access our once a month brunch slash happy hour, brappy hour, which will be on November

9th. And I guess that's real soon. We might do presentations, we might not. Anything could really happen. But also- It's too early in the game to tell. Too early, yeah, absolutely. But also, I mean, then you get access to our Discord with a bunch of other channels and shenanigans.

Always shenanigans, always memes, always lots of food. Oh my god, so much food. And red panda pictures. Or so much talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff going on there. Would love to have you, so check all that out at patreon.com slash girls gone canon. That's C-A-N-O-N. Canon. Two N's separated from one another. Wow. By an O. Twins separated from one another, like Cersei and Jaime. That is how twins work. That's what I hear. That's what I hear.

We got a couple of great emails and messages, comments, etc. This week, we're bringing two of them to you. First one comes from our friend Brando. Brando said, Because Kat couldn't love a child, she lost everything. Because Cersei couldn't love her youngest brother, she will lose everything. I wonder if the gold chain with hands is the Valonqar prophecy come true. Cersei goes off the deep end in her paranoia and fear after the death of Tywin and begins making some really stupid mistakes that are

going to lead to her death. I think at this point, it's too late for her. I think we are seeing the prophecy come true as we learn more about it." Oh, I like that. Prophecy does that, right? Like, I mean, that's your, you're doomed, kid. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely like what Laura said, if you forget about it and you just like don't try to avoid it or whatever, like maybe you can free yourself. When you think about it, yeah, when you think about it, it grips you. It takes, takes over.

It's like a new, it's a new special kind of anxiety. I think about it and it's like, I think about our hobbies, right? Like the things I do in my free time. And I'm like, all that time could be taken up by me, theorizing and stressing about a prophecy about me becoming the savior. And that's kind of what our characters go through instead of like playing video games for four hours. And that's kind of what our characters go through instead of like playing video games for four hours. Yeah, I was like, is that well if they had video games, would it save them? Maybe? If Rhaegar had the Sims 4 and a 30 gigabyte mods folder, yeah, I think it could save him, Aldiana. I legitimately think it could. Yeah. Rhaegar, if Rhaegar had Wicked Whims and

all the animations downloaded so that his sims could have naked sacks, yeah. That could save him. I think it could save him. Stop impregnating teenage girls and start getting your sims pregnant, Rhaegar. Yeah, start making some different family lines through that. And this is not sponsored by EA. But it could be.

Just putting that there. It could be. Sponsor us! I don't know. I don't know about that. Yeah, actually I don't know either. I don't know what else they actually put out. But, uh, eh.

It's the only thing you need to know. FromSoft though. Oh, what about FromHard? Oh, okay. I was just thinking, I mean, FromSoftware did do that George R. R. Martin game. Hit me up. That's true. That's true.

B-Girl stands for Eliana Girl. Oh, God. It's the Rowan Report. Here we are. Here we are. Circe 5 and the Rowan Report needs to happen. Eliana, please check in from Rowan, our reporter on the ground. Coming to you live here from King's Landing, Rowan has told us, abridged, abridged, when

you have weapons you don't need to be upon is a quote you said that stays with me. This quote aligns with her desire to be a man so that she could protect herself, especially so that she could never have been hurt by Robert. It's important that her most vulnerable moment, when she breaks down and cries in front of Tyrion in A Clash of Kings, comes after learning about Marcella's arranged marriage. This happening makes her reflect on how, as a woman, she hasn't been given the tools to protect herself and to protect Marcella from sharing her fate as a political pawn. It's not until Searcy VII and Feast that we learn the full extent of Robert's sexual

violence towards her and why Marcella's marriage triggers such pain for her. When Searcy says she should have been born a man, we can interpret this as her saying she should have been born with the assurance that she would be taught to protect herself and her loved ones, not subject to being sold off to a rapist by a father who saw her as a bargaining chip. We can read her desire for being a man, therefore, as a desire to not be used as a political pawn via arranged marriage and to have been given the tools to protect herself and Rasella from this fate. Because as you said, when you have weapons, you can't be a pawn. Damn right. Great email. Thank you, Rowan. Those are... I mean, that's it. That's Cersei.

Panic in. Yeah, it's interesting because I want to say, didn't George revisit the riddle that Varys poses to Tyrion in an interview recently or someone resurfaced it? And it's like, in the riddle, it's the one who has the weapon who is trying to be used as a pawn, and George is like, the riddle here is like, that's the person who actually has all the power. You don't have to follow the septon, or the rich man, or the king. That's the person with power. Which is crazy, because that's what this chapter is in a lot of ways too, right?

In the background we have a lot of that riddle happening when it gets to some of the things that she's learning about in passing from Qyburn and that she's not digging into that might tell her the answer to a lot of her questions. Yeah. But then again, power resides for people, believe it resides. That's part of it. It's both, you know?

It's like, can you realize that or whatever? And so we're trying to, that's what we're navigating. Oh, wow. You know, I've been really into that song again this year. I know it's been on our Blend. Oh, that's why you know. The not a canon Spotify Blend. I forget. I forget that that Blend is gnarling on all of my nonsense. blend his narking on all of my nonsense. I think my favorite part is that like when I look to see if all four of us have listened to a song it's either Chapel Rowan or Radiohead. Sounds right. Yep.

Well, thanks for your email slash comments slash etc. You can send us an email at girlsgonecannon, c-a-n-o-n, twinsbutseparatedatgmail.com, and we look forward to reading them there or seeing them on Patreon. Podbean, we got a great Podbean comment actually, I forgot who it's from, but they said, Oh, yeah. I feel I feel bad. I didn't see this comment till like, I don't know the other day. And like that moment was all over for you, dear commenter. We got a comment from Wittik Simmikrot. It's a jump ball of letters. This might actually be a, this might be a just like scramble someone made to log in

and comment on our CRC2 episode of Let's Go Mets. Well, well, I'm gonna just leave it at that with, um, whatever this episode comes out. Hopefully, you know, we haven't gotten our ass kicked yet. Um, we have one, I don't know, up to Game 2 of the World Series so far, so... Y'all. And just know, sure, cheer the Mets, but a day will come when you think yourself safe and happy and suddenly your joy Will turn to ashes in your mouth and you'll know the debt is paid and the Phillies fucked your ass up That's all I'm gonna say and

Then they'll probably lose because that's what they do They get to the big time and then they choke it and that happens every year and I do it every year and I'm sane I hear like every every single person's team like they say that their team does it every year and I do it every year and I'm sane. I hear that happens to like every every single person's team like they say that their team does it every year so it must just like maybe it happens to all the teams all the time every year. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Well, I think with that in mind we're gonna step up to bat. For the lightning round. For what you missed between Cersei IV and Cersei V, starting with the Iron Captain. Victarion negotiates claims with his sexy, sexy niece.

Oh god. I feel like you might have used this exact description before or something, and I was just like, what is happening? Um. I don't know, but I hope you enjoy it. The drowned man, upon Naga's bones, the men cry out, Euron! Euron! Crozai! Euron King! I'm sorry everyone that I couldn't give this like, you know, I couldn't put my whole like... G-G-C-S-E into, uh, I'm a little under the weather. 3 on 4, Nimble Dick falls to Shagwell's trap.

Wra-wa-wa. The Queenmaker. A crowning goes wrong on the Sands of Dorne. Arya too. Arya takes a new but familiar name. Cat. Dog. Locus.

A Layden one. The Lord's Declarant make demands, but Littlefinger keeps them at bay. Which leads us into this masterpiece of a Cersei chapter, where Cersei has a very big day of scheming in King's Landing. And we roll into that chapter with Tommen pouting, upset because Cersei won't let him sit on the Iron Throne. He declares you always let Joth sit on the throne, and then Cersei kind of deduces very quickly that Margaery Tyrell has put him up to this and is putting things in his ear. He denies it at first, and she threatens then

to whip Pate, his whipping boy. She tells him she doesn't have time for him to fidget on the throne like a boy, and tells him the small council meetings are tedious and boring and he doesn't need to be in them that Robert used to sleep through them. I love this first opening passage because of that, you know, that unfamiliarity with Robert. Like, she says, Robert, not my husband, our old king, your father, it's Robert. He could have been a stranger and he basically was a stranger to the both of them. He was a stranger. Now he's with the stranger. It's interesting though,

very great use of language there to just put that asterisk Robert, not your father, not your daddy, Robert. There's this great steady increase too as we're going along here of Tom and growing a little bit of a backbone, which is really sad because he's probably going to die before he can use that backbone for anything. But it does make me wonder in the Winds of Winter where he'll be before he dies with standing up to his mom and if they'll be at complete odds. And also kind of shows you removing Margaery from the board is necessary for Cersei to remain in control. So that has to happen sooner rather than later in the Winds of Winter, I feel like, in order for some chaos to really ensue in that castle.

Like, Margaery's gotta get taken off the board. Yeah, Margaery, I mean, like, she actually very much is a threat to Circe's power, right? Especially if Tommen comes into his own power, decides he wants to take it himself, then the Tyrells get to have a say. It's very much like, so much of this feels also, again, reminiscent of the end of Fire and Blood Volume One with, you know, the whipping boy stuff and Egen the Third and not like having any agency but also even like, schmooching together Egen and Viserys with like the lysine spraying, you know, and the way that the lysine-y throjars were kind of exerting

themselves at court too. STACEY Even so much so to Agen and Viserys and Gaemon and his little queen at the moat to Maegor's Holdfast with Sandok the Shadow and with Lara and him being like, no, you will not. It makes me wonder if there's going to be a repeat of that with Tommen. Especially thinking of everything that I think about what could go down with Dorne coming and this face-off and the Tyrells. You have a schism between the entire king's landing court of choosing sides, not unlike the dance in some aspects, but you have Dorne, you have the Tyrells, you have the Lannisters right in the middle of it all, and Tommen could split

that power. He could lock off him, Margaery and them, all in Maegor's Holdfast, and everyone else is locked out and there's a whole battle within. You think back to the first book and the end of the book and all that action we got from Sansa to Ned to Arya's chapters and everything kind of moving there. You could get something like that happening in King's Landing as Dorne takes the castle. You could have eventually Cersei make a deal to have Dorne take the castle and kill the Tyrells or double-cross them. We've seen the Lannisters invest in double-crossing before. STACEY Especially if you think about the ages that Tommen is now versus what he would have been after a five-year gap and stuff. I think you're

right. I think something interesting could really go down there. It would really be a great contrast to the difficulties that Catlin Catlin and Rob had. And like that, those ages as well. So, I don't know, we'll see. Well, it also actually, some of these lines would have made some sense too, like being like, you always let Joff sit the throne. Because I think after a five year gap, right, Tommen would have essentially been of a very similar age to Joffrey. Yes. So. Yeah, also great, great call on the Robert stuff. And I think you were the one who brought up some of that Lysine Spring stuff a few chapters ago, which is why it's in my head. We're like poetry, we rhyme together. You're just always

with me. Oh my god. Aw. She loves me. Seriously asks if Tommen remembers Lord Arryn, who took responsibility for most of these beatings. And Tommen remembers Lord Arryn, who took responsibility for most of these beatings. And Tommen remembers him as the man with the tummy ache who died. And instead of small counseling, Cersei charges Tommen with learning the names of the Westerosi kings and the hands who served them and recite them on the morrow. And I just love that she's like, yes, he died of a bellyache because turns out, yes, Cersei is innocent of this specific crime. She almost wasn't.

In her head, she's like, yeah, it was so weird. He just died of a bellyache. That's so weird. Which I'm sure happens to people like all the time when they don't have modern medicine. I feel sometimes like it could happen to me. Anyways, Kurt telling Tommen learn and memorize all these kings and hands. It's what I've been saying the past few episodes. I think she is like a history nerd, maybe just not a very current events nerd, right? She doesn't know what's going on in current events, turns out, like who's the grade joys? But she's a history nerd, and I think that, you know, Tommen would actually maybe benefit from studying that instead too right now, but I also love that as she sends Tommen

off, she says, that's my good boy, and it makes me wonder if like Tywin would say that to her, right, to get her to do stuff like, that's my good girl. STACEY It's interesting because there's a certain extent that she and that Tywin probably expected of her of self-study and independence that at a certain age maybe wasn't there yet. He expected her to be like children, okay? Children are children. There's a certain stage of their lives that they will always need nurturing and care and

affection and attention from an adult once in a while and nurturing independence is good, but also often time in the language of how she brushes Tom and off, it's very hollow, right? Like this is moreover like, yeah, yeah, please go to your studies. I don't want to deal with you. I need you to just do something. Like, you know, putting an eye-crawl in the kid's hand. Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's not active in the kid's hand. Yes, exactly. Literally. Exactly. Exactly. It's not active parenting.

It's very passive parenting. And especially when you know it's not going to lead to anything, but you're just pretending it's going to. Yeah. Which I understand parents are busy. Sometimes it's okay to do that. Yeah, yeah. But it's all, it's the only thing we see Cersei do in these chapters.

Literally the only thing she does. Absolutely. And then she even comes back with this fucking killer amazing passage. It's a classic. This is a classic that kind of reiterates that, right? That intent to get Tom in a way from Rulik. Yeah, we have had a couple versions of this already come in through some of our emails. Yes, yes. We've seen many versions of this, but this is the… Remixes. Classic, yeah. This is the OG that's been remixed. Oh my god.

The rule was hearse. Cersei did not mean to give it up until Tommen came of age. I waited, so can he. I waited half my life. She had played the dutiful daughter, the blushing bride, the pliant wife. She had suffered Robert's drunken groping, Jamie's jealousy, Renly's mockery, Varys with his titters, Stannis endlessly grinding his teeth. She had contended with John Aaron, Ned Stark, and her vile, treacherous, murderous dwarf brother, all the while promising herself that one day it would be her turn. If Margaery Tyrell thinks to cheat me of my hour in the sun, she had bloody well think again." STAGGERING. Yes. Oh my god. Like, I mean, if it were me, like, it's actually in some ways very similar, I would say, even to the speech that Tyrion gives to Aegon of like, how could Daenerys not be proud, right?

Like, this is everything that she's endured. How could she not want this after waiting so long? I mean, she was basically, it's similar to Catalin being trained as heir, right? In some aspects, or thinking, you know, Cersei thinks she's the heir because of the situation, how it unfolded, and Catalin kind of was the heir for a while too. Yeah, I am interested, I'm like not sure why, like I know why she thought she might be here one day, but there's really nothing in the succession that ever says it would be her turn. But unless she had been plotting Robert's death for a long time, which maybe she had been, which makes sense, especially as we see more about their relationship unfold.

Like Rowan said, as we get to the seventh chapter the seventh chapter, we're gonna see that unfold a lot. Yeah, but also like Barry's catching strays. He was probably annoying as shit, dude. Think about it. Like I know we like him as a character, but imagine having to go to work every day and he's sitting there so fucking smart saying his little fucking smart comments. Yeah. All of that must be so obnoxious to sit there and just listen to these men. Because as we see in her council meetings, they all are

just saying fucking fluffed up stuff making themselves sound smarter. This all could have been a fucking scroll. This could have been delivered. That's them. I don't think that's the case for Varys in this small council. Yeah, he's always playing a role in that council. He's probably annoying as shit. He's like, oh yes, my king, I've had reports of this, this, this, but you never know. You never know if this had happened or not, my lord. Yeah, he had his own plots. Yeah. I'm like, every person at that council was annoying as shit. Do not argue with me

on this one. Come on now. Renly sitting there all ho ho or I don't know did Liza Ayeron say this? Ho ho ho. Yeah. Sanis was probably annoying as shit. Probably actually trying to get stuff done but probably very annoying. But also not even a- I mean she wasn't in those castles. She just had to endure these like with her everyday life which sucks. Like I'm not even in this job and I have to deal with these people. Like annoying brothers-in-law. Yeah. I just think that that castle must have been a shit show. STACEY Yeah. STACEY Shit show.

STACEY And now she has to deal with her other involves. STACEY And her day doesn't actually like… yeah, because her day doesn't get better here, right? She has to go hang out. She spends her morning with Lord Giles, who coughs about stars and stags and dragons, and then takes a report from Oraine, who begs for more gold to finish his first three dromons, and she's like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, I agree. Moonboy entertains while she hosts lunch with merchant guild members, and they complain about sparrows in the city. Cersei is thinking to herself about unleashing gold cloaks on them to roust them from King's Landing when Pycelle intrudes.

He's been kind of a troublemaker lately, she thinks. He's been complaining about the younger men being given command of Orane's ships. He argues for the more experienced captains to be chosen, while Cersei doesn't. In fact, she says – I'm sorry, to say this out loud, I have to really take a deep breath to take this seriously what she says – the only thing these captains proved was that they know how to swim. No mother should outlive her children, and no captain should outlive his ship. Well, should and would are two different, like, hmm. Though it is interesting, the whole no mother should outlive her children thing and the

grief that comes with it and George exploring that differently with Alessand. But I think he's gonna go a very different direction with Cersei. A very different direction. Maybe the direction Alessand should have gone, TBH. Honestly, she's lucky Pysel's dead, like, by the time this is gonna happen to her. Imagine Pysel throwing that line back into her face. Yeah. Oh my god. Poor Pycelle.

Yeah, poor Pycelle. All we ever did was fall in love and grow a beard. And then get it all chopped down. Yeah, right? And get stabbed by kids. And the bow. Anyways. So, Circe's very against these captains, partially because I think, let's be real, part of it

is she just wants to appease Orain, but her justification about it is, you know, their experience, like, who fucking cares about experience? They didn't do very well. It's like, again, this thing that comes up in her chapters of Old versus Young, right? She's like, we need new blood, right? These people, they didn't do great, but it's like, even if you failed, even if you failed at something once before, now you know what went wrong in that problem and how to solve for it the next time, theoretically, unless, like, you just don't take lessons,

which apparently some people don't. But also, like, she doesn't value experience because why would she? She thinks she's doing fantastically here, and she has no experience with ruling, right? She wasn't trained for it, even in the way that Catalin was, because Catalin at one point was heir. Or I mean, we see even some other ladies of houses, like I think Marjorie seems like she's probably trained, right? Tywin just did not fucking bother to train Cersei at all. Arguably, I would say I don't- S. They'll study Cersei.

L. Yeah, I don't even know if Doran trained his kids in either of any of all three of his children. I don't think he's trained any of them in anything. S. Well, and that's why, like, I know you and I talked about this a lot before the podcast that we thought about putting Cersei and Arya next to each other when we first did it, but changed our mind just because we felt that it was critical to have Cersei be kind of at the end of this story and spacing and pacing-wise and also with the POVs that are to come as a contrast and as a sort of lens and a mirror against these other last two all-must-choose POVs that are to come as a contrast and as a sort of lens and a mirror against these other last two all must choose POVs.

Yeah, all must choose. These two potentially arguably Targaryens. Arguably. You could argue that either of these POVs are Targaryens, whichever one is next. Arguably both. Both blonde. They're both next. Yeah.

And arguably. But yeah, there's definitely some Ariane in there. Thereably both. Both blonde. They're both next. Yeah. And... But yeah, there's definitely some Ariane in there. There really is. Yeah. But I think, you know, some of the other like... Mage. Mage Mormont. Like, I don't think she was supposed to necessarily ever lead her house, but she was trained to do so to an extent, I think, in a way that Tywin never prepared his children to do so. So she only wants new ideas, right? She doesn't see necessarily the value of the previous ones. She doesn't see any value in the current ones. And this also makes sense for her to want ideas that are outside of this system that has kept her down this whole time, right? She wants things that like don't reinforce this cage that she's been put in, but also at the same time,

like she's not really fundamentally remaking it, as we've discussed. Mm-hmm. You never want to put a lion in a cage. Haha. Yeah. Very interesting to consider too, the new manager aspect, right? When you get a new manager that comes in and thinks they're gonna change everything, like, oh yeah, this will be easy and doesn't do any of the discovery to find out why they were doing that thing in the first place. Yeah. And like, well, we don't have to do that anymore because that was stupid.

And it turns out, you know, like the faith, like we don't have to pay them or put up with them or do anything anymore for the faith. Well, look outside your fucking window. The thing is, Circe doesn't like to ask why, you know? Which is really funny because my new boss told me that that's her favorite word to ask. She's like, I know it's annoying. And I'm sure vendors get annoyed with me where we work. She's like, I just like to ask why, especially when I'm told like we can't do something. And she's like, so that's your job now. I want you to be asking that. And I'm like, okay, I'll ask why more. Cersei should ask why. We need to tell her this. Like this is life lesson I just gave Cersei. She needs

to hear this. I don't think she can hear me. I think her ear pods are in. And we're going to discuss this more later in this chapter. Times when it would have been good to ask why? Why? Why? Well, in today's interruption, Pycelle announces why the man-julies beheaded the Onion Knight, and the head and hands of the Onion Knight are above White Harbor. Cersei's pleased, she's like, good, good, perfect, release his son. And soon, they will retake Mo'Caelan, and they will clear the Iron Men from the north, regaining the allegiance from the remaining northmen because they slaughtered the other ones, and hopefully gaining defense against Stannis.

Meanwhile, in the south, Mace and his armies are sieging Storm's End, but very, very slowly. By the way, there goes your leverage, Overmanderly. Just putting that out there, you're returning his son to him now? Like, not saying they should keep him, but politically speaking, yeah, you probably should keep that guy in King's Landing as an honored guest. Honor the shit out of that guy. Not the Robert Baratheon honor kind of sense, like real honor.

And then, you know, Wyman can come visit him, but Wyman ain't gonna be loyal. He just gave him what he needed back. Now he's gonna kick your asses. We're not saying that people should hold hostages. But we are saying that Cersei gave up her love. That they gave up the leverage there. Girls Gone Cannon co-host says, hostages great. Man, just wait till we

get to the Danny chapters. Um. Canceled. We are cancelled. Girls Gone Cancelled. Oh my god. So. Two L's next to each other, not separated twins. Um. So. Well actually no, I do write cancelled. The American way is with one L, the British way is with two Ls. Anyways. Later in the afternoon, the Braavosi envoy shows up for an audience. Cersei put him off for about a fortnight, but Noho Dimittis, Noho Hank, is no longer being put off. She sits at the foot of the throne in a gilded chair with crimson cushions.

Interesting, reminds me the opposite of D Dani, right, with her hard bench. She advises Lord Giles is a much better person for this conversation, which is what you do at work when you don't want to do something somebody wants you to do. You just say, oh, I think you need to be asking so-and-so in this department. But Noho Hank here says Giles did not fix this problem, and he's met with him six times. The gold is not forthcoming. Cersei suggests they meet a seventh time, a sacred number to the gods, and Noho is like, you're kidding me right now, like you're fucking kidding me, like I'm coming to you about to break your knees, and you're telling me to pray on this shit? But Cersei's like, oh no, I would

never joke about Jesus. Like straight up, she's like, no joke, there are no jokes going on. King Robert is dead and the Iron Bank will have its gold when the rebellion is put down. Case closed, Cersei says. She commands Ser Meryn to show Noho the door, and Osmund escorts her to go bathe and change for her big guests. VB So, first of all, most importantly, when I was reading this chapter I also immediately thought, I must also say Noho Hank. But I saw you had it in there and I was like, I'm glad Chloe thought the exact same thing. STACEY I'm not gonna remember his name.

Noho Dimiti? No, Noho Hank. That's No gonna remember his name. Noho Dimiti? No, Noho Hank. That's Noho Hank. Noho Hank. Yoshinoya Beefball. Also, so turns out we actually have no fucking idea exactly what Iron Bank said to her specifically because Circe tuned out the entire thing and she only comes back into the conversation after Noho pauses.

She's just like, I don't need to listen to all this. I'm just gonna say no. She dissociates. She completely did for all of that. And she's just really relishing in the ability to say no all the time. But as you said, right, like very, very interesting that they're like, you know, you can't just say pray, listen, seriously, just listen. I watched the season three finale of Industry, and when you got a fucking debt, especially when someone comes from a city where, notably, the bank is associated maybe with a guild

of assassins? Hmm. Hey, I mean, her brother is dealing with some debt himself, Jamie. What do you think about it? Which ones? Jamie. Jamie is dealing with some debt. Which debt, again?

Lady Stoneheart. Oh, yes, yes. Oh, it was a metaphor. It was a metaphorical debt. I see. I mean, kind of, not really. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was a metaphor. It was a metaphorical debt. I see. I mean kind of not really Yeah, well, it was a dead is owed monetary. I get it. Yeah, I'm still in my fucking like season 3 industry I'm trying not to spoil but you guys gotta watch it though. Like I don't know what else to tell you

You should you should watch it It was nuts. It's fucking nuts. It was Uncut gems. Uncut gems. When Cersei and Asmund are alone, she's like, how is your brother Osne's task in bedding our young filly queen? And she kind of lays on, I'm getting pissed because it's taking too long. Asmund's like, that's not Osnie's fault. Margaery wants her, but they're never alone. There's always someone else there.

Tommen. The cousins. Men. Even in the Maiden Vault. Singers. Knights. Fools. Surtalid.

Jelebarjo. The Blue Bard. Guards. Companions. Osmond reassures her, oh, he's eager for the ride on that filly, and Cersei's like, you fool, it's me he wants. And a lordship. Definitely a lordship.

Great comparison when you think about Sansa, right? Who arrives at court, and this could obviously, as we've discussed, be a facet of gardening with how George gardens his story, but also Sansa didn't have a bunch of ladies at court. She had Septon Mordain and Jane Poole. Which was nothing. Margaery came, yeah. And that's when you go back to- Worse than nothing.

Worse than nothing. You go back to Margaery being prepared to rule, right? Her having a full court around her at all times, her having people there as eyewitnesses, nothing can happen to her because of that politically, socially, etc. She's protected in many ways. Sansa didn't have that. Sansa was not prepared for that, not prepared to rule. These are very strong contrasts to look at. In this chapter, Margaery's really smart to tackle on more to what you were saying.

You have her later calling Cersei out, very coyly about Cersei saying Robert was the best jouster, and her never being alone and always having an alibi and always having eyeballs in the room. They've definitely prepared her to be queen much more than Cersei really has been prepared to be queen. Cersei doesn't have friends. She has subjects and enemies. She has servants. She has Senel who betrays her, quote unquote, and she sells her off to Qyburn. She has Dorcas. She doesn't let people get close to her because of the past with her relationship to being born a woman and then also her relationship to other women and her brother. LW – Yes. It's both those as well as Tywin kept everyone else at arm's length. He wanted everyone to know that they were below, you know, the Lannisters, and also

they weren't there in Casterly Rock as much. Cersei spent a lot more time at court than, like, maybe Margaery would have growing up as well. And, but as you said, Margaery was... I don't know what the fuck Tywin was doing. Like why were you not raising... If you had all these ambitions for Cersei anyway, like what were you doing? And he was just busy doing his own schemes and machinations, which I guess is actually

literally again, the same way that Cersei is treating Tommen. Anyways. Yep. There's something here as well of like, as you said, Margaery is being really smart about always having an alibi, but the way that her court is described kind of reminds me of Rhaenys's court, like Rhaenys of the OG3, right? Having all these like singers and fools and knights like always around, it's like always a party. And then there's

also this line here about how Robert kept Jollabar Jo around, and like Robert's potential desire to conquer the Summer Islands one day in the guise of helping Joe get it all back, and seriously thinking that Robert never told Joe, no, just next year. Which, when you think about it, actually is something that keeps Jalabar Joe as an ally. It's exactly the same thing that Marjorie is doing to Osnie, right? She's never really, I think, gonna sleep with him. Right? She's never like, really, like, I think, gonna sleep with him. Robert never really intended to help Jollabar Joe, but dangling that prospect of like, oh, maybe eventually not right now, but yes, is like something that they've mastered in regards to politics as opposed to just straight up no, which is what we do with the Iron Bank in this chapter, right? We just say no, which closes the door in diplomacy. I suppose they're like, oh yeah, yes, absolutely, we'll find a way,

we'll like pay you back at some point, which maybe they've just like punted it down the line too much, but you gotta find a smart way, like a fancy way of being like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's diplomatic. Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's diplomatic. It's diplomatic. It keeps your connections still together and people in your palm, I guess, as we see with the Tyrells. Absolutely. In the yard, some squire is playing, and Margaery and her hens are applauding the squire, and at closer look, it's Tommen on the horse. Cersei dons a smile to go see him

dismount from his horse with Loras's help. He's so excited, and Osney and Ser Dermot and Loras all are praising him and telling him, oh, once is not enough, my king, you must ride every day until each blow lands true and straight. Margaery kneels and is like, you're glorious, you were great, kissing his cheek, telling Loras, watch out, he's gonna be on horsing you in a few years. All of her cousins are dancing around, cheering, Tom will be the champion, the champion, the champion. But Cersei comes in frostily. When he is a man grown, their smiles withered like roses kissed by frost. The pock-faced old Scepta was the first to bend her knee. The rest followed, save for the little queen and her brother.

Tommen did not seem to notice the sudden chill in the air." This is so well written. This right here is so good. It's like Maleficent showing up in Sleeping Beauty, right? Like everything just fucking freezes. You can feel just that, oh, it's one of her like, iciest moments since We Have a Wolf. Like just one of those moments where you just know she's killed every bit of fun, because everyone should feel as horrible as she feels. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Book one Ice Queen, right? Like, that's her version of her Lord's face, or that's her Queen's face, the Ice Queen's face. In which she shows everyone in private, she gets to be, you know, fiery. And that is kind of interesting when we think about like what we've been mulling over, like her and like that whole undead thing.

Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Hmm. The connotations behind it are like the connections, themes. Uh, I came up with a new tin foil while reading this that, like, probably is not gonna be true, but it was just a random thought, because why not? Alright, they're talking about Tommen being like, Tommen will be the champion, the champion, the champion, three times. What if, alright, what if Tommen volunteers to be Circe's champion during her trial,

and because he's the king, he gets to supersede Robert Strong. He's like, I'm the king, I can do whatever I want. It would be ridiculous. It would be so dumb. I would watch it. It would be so dumb. Someone write that for us, you know? Anyway, random thought I had.

None shall stand before him. I mean, really, not maybe no one will stand before him that you have him tilting at that little like that little straw man in those first few books. Cersei agrees one day he shall rule the lists like his father did. What? Girl. Girl. You're about to birth some very strong boys, is that what you're saying? Margaery- Dude, she fucking nailed earlier and then she's just undoing it. You had it. You so had it. You so had it. Margaery is like, what joust and turnies did King Robert win? Tommen

would love to hear his father's victories. Great compared to the beginning. Agree. So great with Robert. Not dad. Robert. Cersei's flushed Robert wasn't great. When he turnied, she did the melee, so she lies.

And he's like, the tourney of the trident! I was the queen of love and beauty! She shuts her down, walks away. She's like, next! Bounce! Quickly! Loras, walk with me. Yeah, I love that she... You can just feel like inside she's like success can meme.

She's like, nice save. Fucking did it. Nailed it. Nailed it. But anyways. She asks Loris, whose idea it was to put Tommen on a horse, and he admits it was Margaery's, but he's like, Tommen was safe, I was watching him. She berates him, and she's like, it's unsafe. He says, well, bruises and bloody lips are part of being a knight, and she says,

I begin to understand why your brother is a cripple, and tells him that he needs to protect her son, and that the new master-at-arms, since Erinn Sandtogard was slain, will need to teach him. By the way, her brother is also kind of a cripple now. Like, again, so earlier we have her being like, no mother should outlive her son. I see why your brother is a cripple. My darling, your hypocrisies are running deep today, Cersei. She's just big into that whole pot calling the kettle black, you know?

Kettle black? Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's why they're part of her story. Kettle back. Because that's what she's about. Loras says that someone must teach Tommen to be a knight, and Cersei's like, well, who was your knight?

It was Renly, of course, and Cersei thinks, I don't need my son to grow up close to Loras Tyrell or to emulate him. Okay, so listen, when we say it takes a village to raise a child, what we mean is it takes the entire Tyrell family to raise Tommen. They are here, they are like, someone is going to raise this boy, it's going to be us. And Tommen absolutely giving new meaning to man-children, and by that I mean he's just children. He's just child being raised by their wives. Oh my god. Yeah, it's not great. Not great for him. He's not gonna be very mature. Well, he's never gonna mature. Yeah. Anyway. Cersei blames the lack of Master at Arms on, you know, her entire busy schedule lately,

and says she'll find another. When Loras once more volunteers, she tells him Tommen is his king, not his squire. She wonders who she could ask as she leaves him on the drawbridge. Alright, who's next on the list of candidates? Knowing it can't be another Kingsguard now without insulting the Tyrells, which, there goes all the best candidates, theoretically. I love that she regrets that the Hound isn't here right now, thinking that the Hound scared Tommen and she's like, that'll be good to teach him. It's an antidote for Loras's chivalry. And I'm like, okay, cool, yeah, yeah, for sure, That's totally gonna inspire Tom in to learn when we teach by fear instead. And I'm like, oh, very

tywin, very Randall Tarly of you. It's like that one famous quote from the series, when I'm queen, I'll make them fear me. Yes, right. That's how it goes, right? That's literally these chapters. Who said that salsa? Looking at my, where a name is scratched out. She goes through a few options for Master Arms, and comes to Dorne, where Santegar was originally from. She thinks, another one of these, to add onto yours right here, of the cancelling things out. Centuries of blood and war lay between Sunspear and Highgarden. Yes, a Dornish man might suit my needs admirably. Now we're cooking! Let's just bring him on in! Could

get interesting. It does make me think it will be Daemon Sand. Maybe. Since we have Myrcella coming back to court, accompanied by Tristain, accompanied by Nymeria. So it would be interesting if Daemon Sand came with them and separates from Arienne, and if he comes to court and is in that proximity of Master at Arms. I don't know. It could be interesting, especially with the relationship with Arienne and how that will affect having spies on the inside before she comes into King's Landing with Aegon. I wonder if she'll think that he's hot too.

Like does she just have a thing for noble bastards now? Maybe. Maybe. Whoa. Yeah, maybe it's a whole thing. Yeah, that's her new kink. Oh wait, that's really interesting also considering she's got a lot of noble bastards herself. Anyways, um, in her solar, Qyburn awaits, giving her all the tea.

The Arken on Tyrosh has presented terms to end their trade war with Lys. Myr was going to enter on Tyrosh's side, but without the Golden Company, they decided not to. Therese interrupts this with an eye roll over the gossip that she thinks doesn't concern her. Their endless betrayals and alliances meant little and less to Westeros, she thinks. Interesting. Wow.

Next he tells her the slave revolt in Astapor has spread to Meereen, and sailors are speaking of dragons, and she corrects him, and she's like, Harpies. Meereen is Harpies, and says, why should I care if the slaves revolt? We keep no slaves here. Again, she knows the history, it just doesn't mean anything to her. She knows the stories, but she doesn't know how to apply them to real life politicking. It sucks. Finally, Dorne. Dorne has imprisoned Ser Daemon Sand for demanding Oberyn's daughters be set free. Sylva, the daughter of the Knight of Spotswood, had a very unexpected marriage in the night to Lord Eastermont with a beautiful age gap of 47 years, 23 years old, and 70 years old. This is some Leonardo DiCaprio shit.

I'm just kidding. It's worse than that. But not for long, because you know, he'll be old someday. Probably doing the same thing. Yeah. And this is exactly what we're talking about when, you know, as you were saying, she doesn't know how to apply, she doesn't know how to ask why. And I understand to an extent how she came to be that way. Like it seems as though Tywin just didn't raise her to do any of that because what's the point for him of raising daughters

who are curious? You don't need them to be curious, you don't want them to ask questions, you just need them to obey, which is what he wanted of his children. But at the same time, like, she's not asking the why behind these things. Also I mean to an extent shows how well the Dornish have kept their secrets. Because it's like, well, why are the Sand Snakes imprisoned, seriously? Isn't that interesting? Why would these people who are of nobility in this one kingdom suddenly be imprisoned? That's like a big news in the way that doesn't everyone wonder why was Ned Stark imprisoned, you know?

Or why is Silva suddenly being married off to an estermont? Like, isn't that something that you should be wondering? And the reason all these things are happening is because all of these people tried to use your own daughter to threaten your rule specifically, to steal your power. Because if you're relying on Tommen as your way to the throne, if they install Myrcella, it can't fucking be you, which I actually think is really interesting and something that we might want to dig into more sometime.

I know that we think about, she has all of this sympathy for Myrcella also being born, like, female, but would she still feel that way if she felt threatened by Marcella as a younger, more beautiful queen? Which I think is going to happen. There are fucking mothers like that. There are mothers like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Who are, who do feel that way. Not without the queenship and... Yes. I mean, you know, the Jeanette McCurdy book, I mean. Yes. There you go. Yeah. There are mothers who, I don't know, don't want their kids to fucking succeed or take spotlight from them. So, anyway.

Circe just hears these reports though and doesn't think to ask or worry about the unrest in the other kingdoms and cities, and this is George's meta way of telling readers, wait, you should actually care about the politics across all of the kingdoms and all the cities. They're all interconnected. I know everyone's like, why are we spending so much time in Essos? Essos is so boring. Listen, everyone, as we've been saying for five years, Essos is fucking interesting anyways, that's it. Yeah.

Plus you're going to miss Essos when you get to the last book and we're all fucking stuck in Kings Landing and it's a hellhole. We're in the North, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy Essos while you can, y'all. I want to. Let me enjoy Essos. Oh, you saw that thing, right? George was all like, wow. Yeah, that we might get more Braavos.

I was like, it's so good that we never did that Braavos episode yet, which we will, eventually. Yeah, eventually. It's coming. It's coming someday. Next year. Almost choose. Jean LaBargeot. We get some Eastermont background. Eastermonts, of course, are her in-laws from Robert's mother's side, and once after they got married, they stayed for half a year. Robert insisted that they should do their own visit to the mountainous island off of Cape Wrath.

It was a dank and dismal fortnight at Greenstone spent watching Robert hunt, hawk, drink with his uncles, fight his cousins, oh and also fuck his cousin. Yes, fucking his widow cousin. As soon as Cersei would go to sleep, Robert would go to fuck the cousin. She even had Jaime tail him one night to confirm those suspicions, and when Jaime returned, he asked her if she wanted Robert dead, and she replied, no, I want him horned. She likes to think that was the night when Joffrey was conceived. This is romance, this is an escape, right?

Like Joffrey was the escape, Joffrey was part of the reason to still keep living while living in this horrible relationship with Robert. This is romance that Jamie's like, what can I do to fix this? How can I? That is a really interesting way of looking at it. This is romance that Jamie's like, what can I do to fix this? How can I? That is a really interesting way of looking at it. Like there are some couples that fall apart When the kid dies or like one of them, you know something like that because of various reasons including the grief, the painful reminders So that is really interesting that she's if she associates the two like that but also I just I am fascinated by the idea of like Jamie P.I. taking photos

of like Robert's liaisons. That's it. Yeah. Oh, that's an AU. Yeah, exactly. It's also but it is like it's very sad. Yeah. It's very sad. It's like, oh, and she's willing to go look for her. She's always been like, that's like exactly who Cersei is in many ways though. She's the femme fatale. And he did it for her, yeah. I mean, she's the femme fatale he got. Yeah, both of them. Which is why, again, we almost put them together. I think the Eastermonds are really interesting and really in the background, but going to

have a bigger role and something she's really overlooking, right? Like the Eastermots have Edric Storm and he's the only nobleborn bastard that's publicly known by people, Florent Baratheon. The Golden Company lands there, right? And also spotted Silva and the Dornish alliance to Robert's mother's side. So people want you out girl People want to take back the kingdom. They're not even thinking about seriously. They just want they just want the kingdom They don't even care about Tom. They just fucking want it and You know, I have to say Hold your breath guys, cuz you're gonna wish it was gonna go easy like you thought

Yeah, yeah No, oh man, but she has an army of zombies holding everyone off. Anyways. I'm here for it. I'm fucking here for it. It's Halloween. Kyvern saw off pause to her that Daemon and the Santigar girl were friends with Arya and Martell, so it felt important. It does feel important, doesn't it?

And finally, the last but not least matter of the night was a puppet show that was being put on by the small folk where the haughty lions ruled the kingdom, devouring their own subjects. The noble stag objects and they devour him too. At the very end, a dragon hatches from an egg and devours all the lions. At first, Cersei's like, I don't see the problem with this play until you find out, she finds out the end about the dragon hatching from the lions. At first, Cersei's like, I don't see the problem with this play until she finds out the end about the dragon. And then she's like, she calls them witless fools. Only cretins would hazard their heads upon a wooden dragon.

I love that line because it immediately calls Illyrio Varys, right? Especially thinking that that dragon might not be a real dragon. The one that's about to come to Westeros. I mean, Dany's coming, but the dragon that's gonna come to King's Landing is probably gonna be Aegon first, right? So Illyrio and Varys are hazarding their heads on a wooden dragon, and Daenerys is gonna probably come and blow that wooden dragon down and huff and puff, right? Like the wooden house. Yeah, the little pink house. Yeah. Yeah. And then Cersei tells him, send whisperers to the shows to note who attends, and that

any man of substance will be fined half their worth. Those too poor will lose an eye for watching the treason. She tells him to axe the puppeteers. He negotiates two for his own purposes, because Senel was becoming quite tired. Just gonna let that in the air beat poor Senel was becoming quite tired. Just gonna let that in the air beat. Poor Senel. Rip. Someday. Rip. I do think Illyrio and Varys are probably funding this show. It brings to mind the puppet show in A Night of the Seven Kingdoms, though, with Tansel and with Aryan. And the cruelty that follows just for people, you know, freedom of speech, which

I don't think Westros really has, obviously. Freedom of speech, kind of like idea going on there and then they're like, no, get the puppeteers, get them. Well, here you are, the puppeteers are going to get killed. And worse. Worse. Definitely think Verus and Elyria are funding it though. And if I'm going to get on board with the coin idea, the gardener coin, then yeah, probably this too. They're probably funding this too. Yeah. I also kind of think it might be a sponsor show as well. Like, very interesting that that's going around, but also... So it heralds to mind again like the whole thing about ill and pain, right? And being like, you have such extreme punishment for people watching this show and also like with the puppeteers and cutting a man's tongue out only says that you are afraid of what he might say.

Ask Viserys Targaryen. And then he did. Cut all those tongues out of the Velaryons. LS – Right, right, right. LS – And you have these chapters kind of piled together, right? Like, Nimble Dick is super pro-Targ in the last chapter. Arya chapters in Clash and Storm talk about missing the old Targaryen dragon king. People are sick of lions. They're sick of stags. There is a revisionist history going on. I mean, these are bad, lions. They're sick of stags. There is a revisionist history going on. I mean, these are bad too. They want a dragon back because it's better

than the last two presidents. I mean, the last two people that have ruled Westeros. They're like, we'll take a dragon. We'll try the old way if it means not regressing more. And these people love being oppressed in Westeros, man. My god. Give me Aerys back. Give me Aerys. They love being oppressed in Westeros, man. Oh my god. Give me Aerys back. Give me Aerys. They love being oppressed. Wow. We're out here victim blaming the people of Westeros.

Girls got canceled. Um, girls got canceled. Once more. Pro hostages. Pro the people want to be oppressed. Okay. But I mean, it absolutely is a revisionist history, right? Like they didn't see, I mean, the other ways that Ares was encroaching on like all those

other things, right? To them, that was a time of prosperity, because it like it was for a lot of them up until the war. And now all they've gotten since the, since Robert's one war, all they've gotten is more wars! Because they had the Greyjoy Rebellion and all of these, like of course we're like, wow. What's the fucking point of this? VB- Small folk pray for peace. VB- Yeah.

Cersei feels uneasy about Senel and how it had all gone down with Qyburn, when he came to take her to his sweet torture bachelor chamber beneath the castle. Cersei takes a bath to prepare for her dinner guests when Jaime bursts through the door, ordering her servants out of the room. Tommen is with them. You have this line of Cersei's golden tresses floated in the bath water. The room was steamy, a drop of sweat trickled down her cheek. She asks Tommen what he needs in a very soft and dangerous tone. Tommen and Jamie say he wants his white Corsair, and he needs to ride every day. Tommen demands Loras be his squire, and Cersei argues his little wife has filled his head with lies, and Osmond Kettleblack

has thriced the man that Loras is. Jamie laughs and laughs at this, and she thinks she could have throttled him." Ooh, little choking energy there. Interesting. Choking him. Oh, Valoncar shit. It wasn't good for Jaime to have done that. It really wasn't. When you're co-parenting in theory, when you're a theoretically cope now you should not yeah You shouldn't undermine the other parents Thing like that, especially if she's technically the only parent in some ways anyways, yeah, but also He's wrong to have laughed but he's not wrong to have thought the thought that he thought that led to him laughing Sometimes it's hard, you know, sometimes you inappropriately laugh. I do, all the time.

I know you do, I've seen it. I know. Like this past week I've seen it. Which moment? We'll come back to it. Anyways, yeah, yeah. I do love this thing that they pointed out of like, Circe's soft tone of voice and it being dangerous to Tommen and that he knows it's dangerous.

And this is some of that Ice Queen stuff again, but it also makes me wonder if this is something like the kids associated with Tywin as well. Like, Tywin has like a soft, dangerous voice. It's something that I know we see with like, Roose too. Yeah, I was thinking of like Arya and Roose in book and Arya Tywin in show obviously, but like we know that exists, right? Like that twinkle in his eye, that small smile that's saved just for her, and then the quiet and dangerous

thing. We've seen it kind of with Tyrion, too. Yeah. Very interesting. She announces her plan that she's sent for adornishment to teach Tommen, who's the finest jousters in the realm, to come to King's. And Tommen's like, no, Loras shall be my knight. And she's like, do you want me to send for Pate? Tommen repeats, I'm the king. I want my horses saddled so I can learn to joust from Loras. I want a kitten.

I don't want to eat beets. Get her, Tommen. Get her ass. I was really proud of him for that one. Beets are good though, so you should eat them. You like beets, but I found out one of my other best friends does not like beets. STACEY You gotta get rid of her outlaw. Is this the friend I'm thinking it is?

STACEY Probably. STACEY Get her out of here. Get her ass. And you can tell her I said that. STACEY Okay. STACEY I will say Cersei's not really wrong about Dornish master arms or Dornish men being weak. You have Lewin Martell who was a great sword, Aaron Santigar obviously who died who was their master at arms. Then you think about Jousters. You have Arthur Dayne, Oberyn Martell. We haven't seen Daemon yet in a joust, but Daemon Sand also is skilled at arms. Really interesting.

It shows too in something that's really repetitive in this chapter as we talk about history and how Cersei knows it but she doesn't understand it. But she does understand the history of turnies and how to use them to manipulate people. She complements Balmain later on how he jousted so well and he participated so well. She knows turnies. Turnies were like the Friday night football game in high school for a lady in Westeros. She had to be there. Every single fucking boring football game, she sat there and she studied and she saw what happened.

She can still use that to this day. 15 years later, she can still look at it. 10 years later, five years later, she can say, oh yes, I saw you in this tourney and you were great, my lord. Oh, give me your money for my campaign. And I think that's clear when you think about like tourneys for a high born young lady, it's much more important than like drinking beer with the guys and tailgating. Like this is a very social situation that you can watch and see different

political moves be made. You see Sansa in the Vale, in the capital, being able to recite different houses and knowledge and the importance of the upcoming tourney in the Vale for sweet Robin and the Lord's Declarant and the Winged Knights. This is social networking time. This is the linked in of Westeros. This is the who's who in Westeros moment, right? Like tourneys like Harrenhal. That's how you spread and convey knowledge and make alliances. That's where plots and schemes are born. Look at a Night of the Seven Kingdoms in the Mystery Night, in the Hedge Night.

Turnys are a gathering place where central locations of knowledge and gossip and rumors can spread and things can happen. It's a statistical like jungle. Yeah. I really love your point of how like it's something that she would learn to be able to play the game better and like to, she remembers who won at them. Oh man. First of all, I wonder if she would have like, she probably would have remembered the wagering of the dagger in those first few books and man, what a POV we could have had.

Right? But also like... And then she could have actually pieced some of that together. That's really interesting. But also she uses that exact knowledge. She doesn't always remember exactly which tourney, right? Which, I mean, there's like a lot of them. And also when there's so many years apart and you've got a lot of life and stuff, like there's so many things that I can't remember, but she uses that exact thing later on in this chapter when she's treating with the Stokeworths.

Yeah, that's all she had to do. But imagine if Circe had the Sims, you know? I see, that's the whole entire episode, okay. Imagine if they had the Sims. Well Circe tells Tom to approach her and ask if he's afraid as he hangs back. She tells him not to show fear. Lines don't show fear in that he'll joust one day. But he is a little boy and the Knight of Flowers has a job to do, which is not playing with a child. She says he may be able to have a kitten for now, at least, and sends him off. As he exits,

he says he will outlaw Beats when he's king. Good for you, get that last word in, Tommen. When Jaime and her are alone, he asks if she's drunk or stupid, that she's forgetting the Tyrells are within their very walls. And Loras is also a great jouster. Cersei, however, interrupts and says that she knows what Loras is, and that she won't have him near her son all while thinking about the gardener coin. There's something about that industrial complex of marriage in Westeros already and like grooming and breeding wives and like creating, I'm

like my CK3 agot game, creating these alliances and popping out more children and then you have like the prophetic angle of it where it's like popping out children for prophecy and then you have just the angle of like where it's popping out children for prophecy. And then you have just the angle of making children for production purposes and for the royal heirs and et cetera. And then you throw that in with pedophilia and grooming and the angle that Cersei is coming to this from in thinking that Loras would try to groom her son, like Renly groomed him a little bit, and the relationship that could come from that, and that Loris would, you know, uh-oh, Loris would make my son gay, where I'm like, girl, you're

gay. I don't think people knew about Loris. You have that internalized homophobia. Yeah. No, I agree with that. It's kind of actually an interesting thing for her to have said. I don't know if it's George mixing things up, because I don't know if people knew about Loris. They knew about Renly, but I don't know if people knew about Loras. They

knew about Renly, but I don't know if they knew about Loras because remember she's even being like, do you think Margaery and Loras fuck? And I'm like, what? Yeah, I do think here she definitely knows what was going on there with them, which is interesting. I think that she has a very, a very, what's the term I'm looking for? She has a very interesting view that's very classic in Westeros on both this homophobia, this misogyny homophobia, and misandry even in some aspects, but like looking at Loras and Renly and looking at the idea of like, gay people are, you know, oh they're so wild and volatile and dirty and evil, and they just like to fuck fuck fuck, it doesn't matter who and you know, it's such a very conservative view and traditional. There we go. She has this very traditional view, in vibe with all this

homophobia, and also interesting too, because she's so concerned about the idea of Loras spending time with her son and potentially corrupting him, while she's also been kind of an accessory to a lot of that trafficking in her childhood adulthood, because that's the industrial complex machine of Westeros, she's also perpetuated it. Many times, she's been an accessory to many and multiple trafficking. She's directly directed children to be trafficked, to be groomed, to have sex against their will, no consent. LW. Jane Poole. Jane Poole is, I think, one of the biggest named examples.

ST. So it's very interesting. And then the entire ring that she's half-ass running with Qyburn, whether she admits it or not. She's trafficking women to the dungeon for Qyburn to experiment on them, which is worse than death in a lot of ways. So it's just a really interesting zoom in on her psyche and what she's thinking here. STACEY Absolutely. And especially because it sucks because David and Dan definitely wrote Loris to be exactly that stereotype that you're saying, like, that people think about gay people. And it's just like, the Loris that we have, that we've seen is like, when the sun has set, no candle can replace it.

And it's absolutely what you're saying, like there's a whole systemic thing though going on there with Circe stuff and I think that like what Jaime was actually gonna say here before you know Circe interrupted him is that like Loras is actually their next best Kingsguard. Actually probably their best because Jaime lost his hand. Anyways, ignoring that, if he still had his hand, right, he sees Loras as the next best Kingsguard because Jaime sees Loras as like that young version of him. He's like, wow, maybe this is my like son even though ignoring actual son right there, but maybe my pseudo son can raise my real son? Anyways, um, it's all- it's all gravy now. The other Lannisters though, both Kevin and Jaime though, I think it's interesting that we're seeing that they

all agree that the Tyrells are in fact a threat and that they are inside the building. It's not just Cersei's paranoia. Like, people act as though, I think a lot of readers feel as though it's just solely paranoia. And it's not! The Tyrells are in fact a threat to them. And you know what, she's right. They did help kill Priscilla. Yeah, I mean, I can't argue with that. I can't. And Cersei argues that Jaime was a better lance before he lost his hand at this and is like, they're- he's nothing like you, like these Tyrells are just flimsy little flowers, and she's like, Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar, all of them are better than Loras. He's just a boy. I thought he was like an evil adult man that was going to corrupt your son though.

It's whatever is most convenient for her at the time, right? Like, yeah, yeah, that's true. I think there's really something interesting here about when Cersei uses that term, like, that someone is just a boy. She's created this hierarchy in her head where so long as someone is just a boy, she can still hold power over them even though she is a woman, right? Like she's created this little hierarchy of who has power in regards to like gender and age, etc. And we see it come up over and over when it comes to both Tommen and Loras, because once someone is

a man, they therefore have force and they have strength. And that is something that can be used against Circe, right? Coming back to what Rowan was saying about, you know, like, Circe perceiving that male body as the weapon that is used against her, especially because that's how it was wielded against her in her marriage. Yeah. That's why she is using hers as a weapon. And others. We have this great bit in a passage where Cersei is talking about men and how nobody ever balked her lord father. When Tywin spoke, men obeyed.

When Cersei spoke, they felt free to counsel her, to contradict her, even refuse her. It is all because I am a woman, because I cannot fight them with a sword. They gave Robert more respect than they give me, and Robert was a witless sod. She would not suffer it, especially not from Jaime. I need to rid myself of him and soon. Once upon a time, she had dreamt the two of them might rule the Seven Kingdoms side by side, but Jaime had become more of a hindrance than a help. Wait, sorry, side by side, he's a hindrance, not a help. Side by side, help. Side by side, he's the help. Side by side, he's the help. Okay, just wanted to put that through my head for a second. I love this woman.

Oh, yeah, interesting, interesting. Side by side means you help me while I rule. I respect that. Yeah. That's how I manage most of my things, too. Absolutely. Oh, you're right. I didn't really think about it and catch that. That's funny. This is, this is just a really great paragraph and passage of as a woman podcaster, maybe, maybe, maybe we should just like reread this whole thing, especially like those first few lines. They felt free to counsel her, to contradict her, even refuse her!

Same. Yeah. It does remind me of the Jesus meme, like they had all laughed. They all laughed. Why? I don't think I know this meme. Jesus. This meme.

I don't think I know this one. Of course you don't. Teach me a meme. Teach me a meme, Chloe. I mean, and again, it's kind of like, again, what Rowan was saying, like, because I cannot fight them with a sword. Maybe that's why she doesn't want Tommen to learn how to fight. Mm-hmm. I see.

Yeah. I get it now. It's all coming back together. Oh my god. Wait, no, I think I have seen this. This meme. They hated him. They hated him. Oh my god. Wait, no, I think I have seen this. This meme. They hated him. They hated him. Oh my gosh.

So she rises from the bath and tells Jamie to leave that she must need stress. He asks which scheme this one is. That there are so many that he's lost track. This is not good. They're about to break up, man. Like it's coming. His glance fell to the water, beating in the golden hair between her legs. He still wants me. — Pining for what you've lost, brother? Jamie raised his eyes. —

I love you too, sweet sister. — But you're a fool. A beautiful golden fool. The words stung. You called me kinder words at Greenstone the night you planted Joff inside me, Cersei thought. — Get out! She turned her back to him and listened to him leave, fumbling at the door with his stump.

Oof. Hateful. Bitter. As you said, they're about to break up. We can go over Gottman's Four Horsemen of Relationships and Relationship Sending next time or some other time. I don't know when we'll go over it, but it's a thought. Anyways, her being like, Jaime's word stung.

It kinda reminds me of Tyrion, you know, goading people and being surprised when they bite back and they're like, oh my god, those words hurt. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes when you say shit like pining for what you've lost, brother, people are gonna insult you back. She just didn't think he would. Ugh. Dorcas gets Cersei into her new gown. It's striped with black velvet and shiny green satin, mirror-ish lace above the bodice. It's costly, but it's meant for a queen. Her

wretched washerwoman had shrunk several of her old gowns so they no longer fit. Tyena had talked her into showing mercy to the washerwoman, saying, "'You'll be loved by the small folk for being kind, your grace.'" So instead, Cersei charges them for the gowns. The expensive gowns. The black and green running through it. Also like, these are not forgiving fabrics, right? Like there is no stretch, there's no polyester or spandex during this time. But Taina convincing Cersei, oh don't whip them, why don't you just let them live, charge them, right?

It's not the best thing that could happen to them, but it's also kind of a Sansa-esque move of like, wait, don't execute him, what have you made him your fool? You're so clever to have seen it, your grace. It's true though, that's a great call. Tyena is the Sansa to her Joffrey right now, pulling her back a little bit. Cersei is happy to be out of mourning clothes, even though this is black, and she thinks she wishes it was Tyaina dining with her tonight instead of Felice and Balmin. Taina was her first real girlfriend since Malara Hetherspoon.

She just doesn't really get along with other girls. It's not a red flag. It's not a red flag. She thinks of Malara Hetherspoon, who was the greedy little schemer who was dead and drowned and gone from her life. I like how you said she just get along with other girls like Esso, you know? She doesn't. She just pushes them away? She does?

Actually, no, she does push them away. Literally. Is Cersei Lannister a girl's girl? I don't know. I don't know what that means anymore. I don't think anyone does, but no, she's not. She's not. So I love what you called out there regarding the side by side and her seeing it as like

help, which is not like side by side, because I think that comes into play here with also and something that you were saying earlier, right, about how Marjorie has all these people around her like as friends friends and that they learn to do that and to have these alliances and to have that at at court because Circe doesn't have this and she's all like, Malara taught her not to trust anyone but Jaime, which I butchered that line but I'm not well. Yeah. So first of all obviously Westeros and within patriarchy in general, you have a system that pits women against each other.

They feel that they must compete against one another for whatever reason. But Cersei's really like, she's really fucking taken that to heart in a couple of ways. But also like, we find out that Jaime, like, she could trust Jaime, she thought, when they were the same in her perception, or equal. Like, at least she felt like she could use his power, or he saw her as an equal, right? And therefore she is as good as any man, she has just been maligned for it. But now, as queen, she's isolated, it's no friends. Like, again, Daenerys wondering, like, do all gods feel so lonely?

And for a while there, the Lannisters had each other, even though it was a really toxic dynamic, so they didn't need to, like, feel lonely in that same way, unlike, you know, a lone dragon queen. But without Tywin, who also is the one who, in a microcosm of that society, pit all his children against each other, they've now fallen apart. And Cersei doesn't realize that it's much harder to make friends as a queen than it is on the path there, because when you're a queen, when you have power over everyone, then you don't have anyone side by side with you. You have no equals. How can someone truly be your friend that you can trust? They all want to use

you for something, which is something she doesn't recognize when it comes to Taina. That's not your friend. Enemies and subjects. Exactly. Enemies and subjects. Exactly. And it's just two bald guys grinding their teeth together. In the solar, her guests await her, having already drank tons of the hippocross. Lady Felice and Sir Balman, who tell Cersei how the Lady Tanda was doing since being thrown from her horse,

breaking a hip at quite an old age, Cersei promises to add her prayer to theirs. I'm just gonna harp on this, I think throughout all her chapters now. She says that Lady Tanda is probably, you know, gonna die from that broken hip because of old age. And again, there's that whole dismissal of people being older without her realizing that growing older is a gift, and it's one that Cersei's likely not gonna receive. Her kids also won't get it either.

That's sad. You really can't break a hip that old. It's not good. Things are bad. It's really not, and it's very common. It's very common for that to happen. It's very hard, everyone. Don't break your hip. Take care of your bones, if you can. Her saddle strap was worn, and it burst while riding. The stable boy was chastised. Cersei makes sure of it. She's like, I hope he was chastised. And again, you have this idea of someone trying to kill Tanda, the stable boys being punished, Cersei getting heavier maybe, and her clothes shrinking, and her blaming the washerwoman. Some really interesting background stuff of who suffers for these royal ouchies going on. Felice then

gossips about the Rosby Ward denying them hospitality, and that he would make off with Giles' money and land when Giles finally dies even though, by rights, it should go to Felice. Cersei is like, is she a lamb or is she a grasping monkey in her head? I'm like, interesting. I think a little bit of both. There's something really interesting with the Rosby Ward situation of it all, especially not just within this book, but when we start to look at fire and blood as well. As we get into the Bron and Rosby of it all, this passage is really making me think it's more likely that Oliver Freight is the ward when you look at his family. His lady mother was aunt

to his second wife, third cousin to Giles himself, and we have that line of whoever is Giles' ward is an ill-born wretch. So Fraym father and Rosby mother? I don't know. When I think about it and when I put the timeline on Walder's wives, Bethany Rosby would have probably died in the 280s for Walder to get his next wife, so could have been any age, we don't know that, but the way George writes some of these characters, I would be thinking that she's like similar age to Ned Cat Cersei, maybe she's a 260s or 250s baby, a little older than them. And in a cat chapter, I think we hear she has one child for each year she was married to Walder and only five survived to adulthood. So Roslyn being a Rosby fray and tying the Rosby story

into the main storyline with the North, the Riverland, the Vale is interesting too in this. And it also kind of comes back when you think about the Hornwood and the Donnella Hornwood and the Hornwood estate and everything going on there. So something interesting with the female heirs, but when we get back to Fire and Blood, we have that bit at Rosby. Rhaenyra's flight from Kang's Landing had been beset with difficulty. At Rosby, she found the castle gates barred at her approach by command of the young woman whose claim she had passed over in favor of a younger brother. I kind of wonder if this is going to come back to bite Cersei. We know that Rhaenyra is kind of put to the task of you can either have succession laws change in Westeros and everyone go to war against each other in a

miniature version and kill each other because you made it that way, or you can just pass over these people. And obviously, it kind of did her in in some aspects because she did not get safety there. Maybe Cersei will try to go to Rosby, I mean with her new friends here, maybe they won't be friends in Tiwau, maybe they'll reject her and turn her away. I don't know, something's interesting though about Rosby and Rhaenyra and Rosby and Cersei being connected for sure and the focus being put on it and these background Freys kind of rising, the potential for Oliver Frey to be involved, who knows. STACEY Yeah, I think that's a great analysis of how it all falls and even her being like, I don't know, it should go to you, right? Like, please.

STACEY Yeah, I think there's something about the succession there, especially when we look at Myrcella coming back, especially when we think like maybe Myrcella might end up queen and Cersei won't be queen anymore and have no power and I don't know, something going on here. Yeah. Female succession shit. Yeah, very interesting. It's all gonna pop off one day. So, the Stokeward Strip was already very vexed by ruffians. Unkempt Sparrows, weapons with stars sewn into their garb, seriously calls him a plague on the land and that the new High Septon would need to deal with them or she would do it

herself. We get an update on the candidates for Septon. Olador, what a fun name, was about to be chosen, but some other Sparrows dragged him naked in the street from broth brothel, rip. Lucian, well, I guess he's, I don't know, Lucian seems likely, but he's still short from having enough votes. I like this little word choice of the Sparrows being described as a plague because it's very religious connotation, like the ten plagues, right, and the connotations of righteousness. Oh I love that, that's great. You're getting warmed up. You're getting warmed up for the Maddy-soad.

Catholicism. Well, this is not only Catholicism. That story doesn't only exist in Catholicism, but anyways. Anyways. Faith of the Seven, we're praying to it. Um, uh-oh, I got her going. She's nodding her head now. She's in. Love the sparrow's in. Yeah. Love the sparrow movement in the background. I love this rise happening very quietly in Cersei chapters all because she's not focusing on it.

Here, they legitimately ruin one of the candidates in order to install their own, but it's paid no mind by Cersei. Also, where's Lucien? That's a Freyceptin. That would be so interesting. I'd be so happy for Walder Frey. But think about that, like Oliver Frey, one second ago we talked about him, now here's Lucien. They're rising, Freys are rising. Amazing. Oh my god, it's like also what Pat during the epilogue was talking about how you got them in Old Town too. You got like, they're everywhere. What if they actually come together? Wow.

I mean, that's the reason to have that many, right? Like it's like a cult. Like you broke the cult. But there's so much infighting between all of them that like it seems like it's not gonna hold together, but what if they did? What if against all of, you know, subvert expectations, George? Just like, make Tyrion the valoncar. Be brave. I just think it could be interesting. For her to be right. It could be interesting for her to be right. It could be interesting. It could be. Intriguing how much info Qyburn is handing her on a platter and she's not getting or using, and like, makes you think about his intentions too. Like Qyburn is telling you delicately what's going on, and he's pushing you in certain

directions, but also how is he getting all this info so cl- how- hmm. Anyways. That is a good question. How is he getting- Who does Qyburn really work for besides himself and Necromancy? What if he just like has really good friends? Maybe. I mean, like me, I always know things.

I'm always gossiping. He's just like Margaery Tyrell. For real. Also, loving that this kind of mirrors the election, the storm election, right? For John, coming commander. The last election that we had in this story. Yeah, yeah, not in real life.

Not the real life election, which is Jesus. Jesus Christ. I think we're going to just have, how much further can we take our Khyber takes sharing this read through? So yeah, the election manipulation all over these few books. And I really like this line because again, I'm just going to harp on all this stuff on like old stuff now of, may the crone guide the deliberations with her golden lamp of wisdom, said Feliz, piously.

I'm like, oh yes, in the faith of the seven, the crone is an aged woman that represents wisdom. That's true. And yet age is what Cersei both disdains and fears, as you know, she absorbs none of the information placed before her. It's always younger, more beautiful queen, never old, more beautiful queen, you know? It's fucked up. It's fucked up.

Felice and Balmain approach the next- Well. Felice and Balmain approach the next topic. The bastard child named Tyrion. Lallus is simple. Her husband is given to the Black Humors, says Balmin, who had once been a noted jouster and handsome knight. He had not aged well, Cersei thinks.

She thinks he could still serve as a cat's paw, and begins to lay on her new plan. She tells them, well, this child could restore the name to the honor it once held when it was a king's name. You're not to blame. Tanda was the sister I never had. And she starts laying it on super fucking thick, tears in her eyes, breaking voice saying, I've lived in fear ever since Joffrey was murdered. And she asks them to confirm they're true friends that

she and Tommen can trust them and says, oh, I have doubts about Ser Bronn and Felician Balmendegry. They're like, he is no true knight. She compliments his jousting and fishes for whichever attorney she would have seen Balmend at, which was Lannisport, after the Greyjoy Rebellion. And she says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says,

Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says,

Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, Lannisport says, of course, is like, "'Bron must be gathering swords for the

dwarf. It's confirmed to come back and kill Tommen." And she starts sobbing. She's begging them. She's like, "'Protect me! Kill Bron in immortal mishap! Please don't make me say it! But if you do this, I'll find Lallis a better husband.'" She thinks, maybe a kettle black. Ooh. And when this is all over, that the Lannisters shall pay their debts. I love that she thinks that the kettle blacks are the most eligible bachelors in all of Westeros. Just because there's like 80 of them. And by 80, I mean like three. I'm pretty sure no one else thinks this about them other than her. She's like, they're

the best. They listen to me. They're obviously the best men ever. These people don't know what's in their pants, so I think they've gotta be packing some heat. Anyway, I love that the, the, their house words are proud to be faithful. Because all these words about the rebellion are true. But for a different group of faithful people... Yeah, yeah. Those people, they are very proud to be faithful. Great call.

Anyway, dinner is hypocris and buttered beets, hot baked bread, herb crested pike and ribs of wild boar. Cersei had become very fond of boar since Robert's death. Me too. I'm fond of it. The song's great right now. I know. All I can say is I want this. Slow roasted and... VB- Alright, we're gonna wrap this up so we can eat boar, guys. We're gonna eat boar and beets. VB- The company really isn't that bad, by the way. I actually think this is kind of sweet that she almost likes them.

VB- She's like, huh, it's kind of nice. They leave after midnight, and she was like, VB- I could have hired a faceless man for how much hypocrisies they drink. Yeah, she's thinking about the price and I actually am like I actually don't think she could have. Like what if the price that the Iron Bank asked was one of her kids or like the crown or her queenship because as we know they have been known to ask for someone's kid. So yeah also like we literally just had the Iron Bank inquiring about paying the debts, so like do you really know how Hank just left here? VB- Yeah, they are theoretically two separate institutions, but we know they're fucking

not. We know that they're not. So anyways, also like at that point, like if, if it were a monetary problem, right, in regards to like affording the hypocris and just hiring a faceless man, you might as well like have paid off a little bit, like done a little bit of a payment to the other provosi institution that is not another provosi institution. Maybe it's not that deep, Eliana. Girls can make jokes. Okay, yeah, that's. Girls can make jokes. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And she's just a girl. She's just a 30 million year old girl. Just like me, a 30 million year old girl who loves to make jokes. I know. I was like, how old are you again? However old that is, she's that. 30 million and joking. I'm 10, so shut the fuck up. She goes to look in on Tommen and he's fast asleep and

she finds that there are three black kittens cuddled up to him and she's like, what the fuck? Merrin Trant is like, Marjorie gave them to him. She thinks that it's better than cutting the cats out of their mother with a dagger like Joffrey had done. She thinks that Marjorery's clumsy seduction attempts are obvious and laughable and that Tommen's too young for kisses, so she gives him kittens. She wishes they weren't black because it gives her the idea of an ill omen thinking about Rainies, Rhaegar's little girl who discovered black cats are bad luck in this fairy castle. They're really doing it to us without needing to. That's

foreshadowing, bro. It's over. He's gonna go just like Rainies. They're really doing it to us without like needing to like that's foreshadowing bro. It's over He's gonna go just like Rainies. Oh, they're gonna crack just like NeMaria said crack it open crack it all open and let the maggots Shine in the Sun like it's They're gonna kill that baby boy, dude. Yeah, yeah, it's over. It's fucking over for those kids. So over over. It's fucking over for those kids. It's so over. Cersei thinks Rhaenys almost could have been her daughter, and we start to get the backstory of the cruel joke that Aerys played on Tywin. She thinks back to the memory of Aerys rejecting Cersei as a match for the elegant Rhaegar Targaryen. When she was no more than six or seven, Tywin promised her, in secrecy, she would marry Rhaegar, giving her his secret smile that

only she ever saw, but first he had to get Aerys to agree. Yeah, so I mean, obviously she wanted to be queen, because of course she fucking wants to be queen. Like, who doesn't want fucking to be queen? Who doesn't want to grow up to be president when they're a child? But also, besides like that and the safety that queenship affords, is there like a part of Cersei that just deeply desires queenship because it was the one thing that made it seem like she could make dad happy with it, like get that secret smile.

Yeah, and then it was denied from her so then it got even worse and then it was given to her in a worse way. Yeah, and it still didn't make dad happy apparently. worst way. Yeah, and it still didn't make dad happy apparently. Interesting. And he keeps like making these little promises that never come true the way that Cersei does to Tommen. Except like, unlike when Cersei does it to Tommen because she doesn't want it, Tommen actually did really want this. Because she was so inspired by that, Cersei drew a photo of her and Rhaegar flying on a dragon and when Jaime asked, she told him it was Alysanne and Rhaegar flying on a dragon, and when Jaime asked, she told him it was Alysanne and Jaehaerys, and I'm just like, see, she's like a little

history nerd. Also, it makes me think of those scenes in like, Turning Red, the Disney movie about the Disney Pixar movie about a red panda, a girl who turns into a red panda and drawing like your little erotic friend fiction. That's what she did. Okay. I haven't seen it but that makes sense. Oh you should watch it!

It's a lot. It's good though. Well I cry as much as I cried during Wild Robot. I definitely cried. Did you cry more in Wild Robot or did you cry more in that? We saw Wild Robot. I have different issues I think around like red, which is about Asian American daughters and their mothers, but not Asian American, sorry, Asian Canadian daughters and their mothers.

They're different from us Canadians. Got it, got it, got it. Oh my god. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Food for thought. When Cersei was ten, she saw Rhaegar in the flesh at a tourney welcoming Ares to the west in Lannisport. They cheered her father twice as loudly as Ares, but only half as loudly as Rhaegar, who wore black plate over golden ringmail and long streamers of red and gold and orange silk on his helm. Two of her uncles and a dozen of her father's jousters fell to Rhaegar, and at night he played his harp and Cersei wept.

Hashtag Cersei wept. Felt good to me. She remembers drowning in his purple eyes, thinking, He was wounded, but I could fix him. Even Jaime only looked like a boy next to him. Before the tourney, J Jenna told her in secrecy she was going to be announced as Rhaegar's betrothed and that she must look especially beautiful. In fact, she was so happy and confident. She went to visit Maggie the Frog with Jane and Malara to show them the lioness fears nothing. She was going to be queen. Why should a queen be afraid of some hideous old woman?" Eliana, anything to say?

There it is again. I wonder, oh wait, interesting. Where are some hideous old woman? Well, she's told young are more beautiful queen, but is she supposed to anyways? Something to unpack there, something to think about. I don't have a fully fleshed out yet, sorry y'all. At Turney's end, her laughter died. Only chilly looks and cold silences were served between Tywin and the king. She went in tears to Aunt Jenna, who told her Ares refused to hear of it. He said Tywin was his most able servant, but a man does not marry his heir to the servant's daughter. Jenna told her dry her tears. A lion doesn't weep, and her father would find her a better man than

Rhaegar to marry. We have this passage of intended, he would never have looked twice at the wolf girl. Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons. She had never forgiven Robert for killing him. But then, lions were not good at forgiving, as Ser Bronn of the Blackwater would shortly learn. Now I'm like, oh he is going to be the Lord of Highgarden then. Just kidding. Maybe not, or what if Tyrion fucking comes for him because he does not forgive Bronn for not championing him. I definitely think he's gonna survive though, unfortunately. I'm like, Bronn's gonna live. I don't, I just don't see him being Lord of Highgarden, but like, maybe I'm just wrong.

Maybe something. Maybe Raspi. Maybe he gets Raspi. I don't know. He's gonna get something, but he's definitely gonna live. That's what this tells me. Bronn is going to live. Coming back to the way this is all structured around the tourney, right, Atlantis port, I think this is really fascinating because we looked at the last book, In a Storm of Swords, when we have Brand 2, right? My favorite Bran chapter chapter in A Storm of Swords, where we get the entire story of the tourney at Harrenhal from Myra. This mirrors that tourney in language heavily. An opposite angle, though, but a very heavily mirrored experience. Cersei has more in common with Elia, actually, when you think about it, than Lyanna. The wolf maid sniffled at the song the dragon played versus

the lioness sniffling here, so there is a parallel there. Her laughter died, all the smiles dying, queen of love and beauty and the rejection, that shared rejection of Cersei being rejected as Rhaegar's wife, etc. Prophecy, the woods witch versus Rhaegar and his prophecy, perhaps with another woods witch when we get more information on it, right? The Ghost of High Heart, maybe? And feeling brave enough to face the Woods Witch versus Lyanna in the woods as the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and bravely maybe facing something else going on, like Ares or something going on at court. Again, mysteries, mysteries. Secret nuptials. Cersei to be married to Rhaegar, speculatively Lyanna and Rhaegar getting married. And then Maggy's curse bloomed like a poisonous flower

versus the blue frost of the flower crown. And of course the dead kids, right? The idea of dead children and the parallels there. But this entire tourney, very much a similar experience to the tourney at Haron Hall, so very interesting. Very well mirrored in the language, though. Like, the laughter dying and the smiles dying released it out. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's... Imagine... Sorry, now I'm thinking back to you talking about it. Imagine your betrothal being announced at the football game. If that's what you're into. People do get engaged at sports games all the time.

But anyways. I mean, we got engaged at a Dodgers and Phillies game. Me and you. Years ago. We didn't do that. Is this my unkiss moment? Oh my god. No, I'm just lying for fun.

I love to lie. But anyways, I love what you've called out here of like, yeah, how all of those different tourneys have been woven into Circe's story. And also it's just like interesting, right? Because it all keeps coming back to this language of queen of love and beauty, right? And that's something that obviously like, she covets queenship, she covets being someone's queen of love and beauty, and yet she's not that... Her queenship in general is threatened on so many different fronts, but is there anyone who would call her their queen of love and beauty? Big sad. She's all alone in the world. She just wanted to be someone's queen of love and beauty and for anyone to look at her with some sort of modicum of respect.

People look at her a lot as their queen of like as a queen of beauty, queen of lust and beauty, but what about- They're like queen of titties. Yeah. You're my queen of titties, Cersei. And love and beauty and respect. Oh my god. I respect her because she'd be a mommy to- anyways, so this has been a great chapter to review with you. I look forward to next week with our friend Maddie. Lots to think about in the tourney we just discussed and time to get religious, right? We're all gonna get a little humble, get a little religious, you know?

Say our prayers, our rosary. Oh my god, sorry! And then it's even better, I just had one more thing. You with the turties, tying it together with all these other turties, and the theme of Tommen learning to fucking joust throughout the whole chapter. That's how it starts, and with Loras. Oh my god, that was such a good tie, Chloe. Sorry. Wow. We got there. I had to interrupt our outro. I'm not on my A game today.

I take a little more time to process today, but like, whoa, really great tie, sorry. We're just getting in there. We're just getting in there with a sword and just jousting it. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Anyway, yeah, all those things that Chloe said about us next week, we're gonna be here. All that shit. Aliana's gonna get some sleep is what's gonna happen. Some rest.

I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna be so good. I'm gonna be so well. Wait till Circe 6. It's gonna blow your mind. It's gonna blow your fucking mind. It's gonna be over for all of you. I hope not. When my throat stops fucking hurting. It's over for you bitches.

Eliana, where can they tweet and email us at? They can tweet and email us at girlsgonecanon on Twitter or send us an email at girlsgonkannon at gmail.com At least your voice is kind of sexy. It's got the horse thing going. I hear this. My other- I hear the husky-ness. My best friend who doesn't like beats, she's very into my ill voice, my sick voice. I'm like, well, I'm glad you enjoy it. I fucking don't.

Give that girl a pack of reds and let's see what happens. Oh my god. Ooh. Give that girl a pack of reds and let's see what happens You can find us at a platform near you and our friends from patreon.com slash girls gone cannon Which by the way, this is the reason we do this podcast like our patrons sponsor us We do not have ads because our patrons sponsor us and now they are gonna take the time to tell you where to listen to us at You can catch girls gone cannon on any of the following streamers And now they are going to take the time to tell you where to listen to us at. and Amazon podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the thunder tier above, you have

access to a Discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the Discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, Fashion Hour. There are multiple channels for historic materials, A Song of Ice and Fire. There's a Pet channel, which I think is probably the most important channel of all. Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community, it's a lot of fun, and you won't regret it. Yeah, see you at Patreon, where there are a ton of perks, tons of fun, and we'd love to have you.

As always, I have been one of your hosts. Cersei's titties. Oh, okay. Wow. Alright. And I've been another one of your hosts. Cersei's box. I'm like her blonde pubes, because that's, I mean, the water beading. When he writes the water beading, I'll be back next week to talk about Cersei's fucking pubic mound. Yeah, let's fucking go. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Tywin's fupa. Oh my god! Wait, that is, oh my god! She's his true heir.