Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 234 — AFFC Cersei VI featuring Maddy

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Get on your knees: The queen is visiting the Great Sept of Baelor and giving new rights to the Faith. Special guest Maddy breaks down the historical influences and parallels (particularly from the history of the Catholic Church) for the outcomes of Cersei's meeting with the new High Septon. Where to find Maddy: https://twitter.com/madeleinewintr Recommended by Maddy: https://twitter.com/hightowerfunk  ---- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon Reads a Song of Ice and Fire, episode 234, Cersei VI, in A Feast for Crows, featuring our friend Maddie. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. CLOE And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, at long last, Maddie, you are here, and you have got, this is an info-packed episode. I am excited. but Maddie's definitely shown up, everyone at home. I'm looking at her notes and holy shit. Realistically, it's hers, right? Like she's probably the heir. If anything happens to me and you, it's her podcast.

We've talked about willing it to a couple of people, but she's up there. Wow. Well, that's good to know. It's just so you know, more pressure. But you might not be the only one. I mean, then again, it is a, there are co-hosts, right? Well, you have to do a monarchy like you have to have two heirs You know, yeah, this one Viserys never saw coming

That could have been a solution to Viserys' problems co-ruler co-rulership Well, we're gonna talk a little bit. I think there's gonna be a little bit of Viserys talk little Viserys to talk Well, we're going to talk a little bit. I think there's going to be a little bit of a Sarah's talk, little of a Sarah's to talk. A lot of a lot of the series to talk. Maddy, you are a self-proclaimed neutralist. We're changing the history here on the internet today.

Maddy does not support team black nor team green. She's team neutral. Yup. I'm team Alison. I think that's like what you need to know. So like, whatever Alicent does, I tend to just support whatever that is. It's very predictive. Like, you know, if you were surprised by the end of season two of House of the Dragon,

if you followed me on Twitter, and you would have you would have known how it would end up because I got really mad at Aegon II and got really drunk after the fourth episode and I was like, he sucks. I hate him so much. Alyson should betray him to Rhaenyra. And guess what? That happened. So it's so funny you say that because I'm like, oh my God, I love Aegon II now. I love his character. I feel like I'm the only person who didn't change my opinion on him after the second now. I love his character. I feel like I'm the only person who didn't change my opinion on him after the second season. I didn't change my opinion. Even at the end of the first season,

I've always thought he was like a really interesting character and I was excited to see how he would go to that. But like that's different than like I support him. I do not support- Yeah, I don't think he should be king. That's a totally different thing. Yeah, well I don't think anyone should be king, but that's another totally different fucking thing. Well, you know who should be king. That's a totally different thing. I don't think anyone should be king, but that's another totally different fucking thing. Well, you know, you should be king. Cersei. Yes.

Yes. Yes. That's what we're here to discuss. Cersei's king shit. Exactly. Tell the people where they can find you, Maddie. You can find me on Twitter at Madeline Winter. There's not an E in Winter and there are two E's in Madeline.

Link below. That's somewhat confusing. But you'll see it. You'll see it in the link below. Anything I do or am up to, I will post on there unless Elon shuts that website down. In which case, sorry, I'll disappear off the internet. You won't see me anymore. Yeah, I'm going down. Going down with that ship.

I'm going down with the ship. Anyways, but yeah, anything I do, I'll post there. I have been working on some stuff, but I don't wanna say anything concrete because I don't wanna end up like George R. R. Barton and say that like, oh, my book is gonna be out next year or whatever, but I've got things happening. I've got some essays working on sort of the latter part of the Targaryen dynasty and the dances impact on Aeswaf.

I've been sort of chipping away at those for a few weeks here and they might be out. Who knows? We'll see. You might know Maddie as the infamous editor of an essay I've never released, so Well, you know, don't be like me Maddie. We're on the same page. Don't be like me. I know. Release the essays. I know. I technically could, but I just need to edit it. STACEY Editing is part of that hell. I'm sure George could agree there. Well, we're very excited to have you on. Some of your historical knowledge and, I mean, Catholicism as well. All of this is going to be very interesting. She just, for those of you at home who aren't

seeing this, she just kissed her Faith of the Seven necklace. We get it, you're Catholic. It's like the we get it you vape, but it's we get it, you're Catholic. I have a big heavy stainless steel Faith of the Seven necklace. It's officially licensed Allicent merch. When we hung out together, I wore it basically all the time. It is a really nice one. I've seen really shitty tiny cheapy ones and this one you guys is really good. If you want a nice Faith of the Seven necklace, check out the official merch on this one. Not a plug for HBO. I don't care what happens to them, but- Don't care what happens to them.

But that necklace fucks. Yeah. Or doesn't fuck until marriage. Cool. Well, excited to have you here. We're going to jump in soon. First things first, some quick housekeeping. It is a new month, meaning that patrons in the Stranger tier and above will have access

to a brand new bonus episode this month, topic to be announced. So stay tuned. Hopefully next week or the week after you'll hear about that. If you are getting itchy with anticipation for that episode, please take a look at last month's Patreon special bonus episode on Sand Kings. Makes me itchy just thinking about it. Really fun novella from George R. R. Martin. Nice and creepy for the season. It's still autumn, not quite to winter, so take a look at that. That's all over at patreon.com slash girlsgoncanon. Indeed, and if you would like even more Girls Goncanon, you can sign up for our discord,

which is available for patrons in the Thunder Turin above. If you, I mean, if you make it by tomorrow, November 9th, which will be tomorrow when this episode comes out, you can join us for our which will be tomorrow when this episode comes out. You can join us for our brunch slash happy hour, brappy hour, which is going to be at 2 p.m. Eastern. And I mean, we might have presentations. We might not. You know, we're successfully seven days away from this brunch at time of recording, and I can tell you,

Aliana and I got pretty sick from life and travel. She's on the mend. I am down for the count. We'll see if we have presentations. We'll see. STACEY I'm in my, I think, I'm about to like, I think, crest upon my Elden Ring Essays era. It's like two years after the game came out, but the DLC came out this summer, so like, anyway. We also have even more exciting news in all this. Oh my gosh. You all- Oh my gosh. You've been- this one's also free for all of you. You should all be grateful for this free

course. You get to audit this course from the head of the Department of Circeology. from the head of the Department of Circeology. The head of Department Circeology. Havdikaka? What is the acronym here? We got to figure that out. Yes. Our next episode, we are having our second guest for Circe. And that is going to be our friend Rowan, who is self declared as

Circe's psychologist. She is very important to Circe Lannister and Circe psychologist. She is very important to Cersei Lannister and Cersei Lannister is very important to her. And she's going to tell you all about Cersei and of course, all about Tyena and Cersei as they fuck. And everything about that like deeply, like not just the fucking part, but that is the fun part. Let's be real. That's the most important part. Yeah.

It's it is. Getting gored by the boar fingers whoa whoa I wish that was me for real for real well it won't be a boar ring chapter for sure get it I used boar and then I went other boys like well Great segue, oh yeah. No, we got it. We just didn't laugh. I'm like, wow. I'm like, well, Maddie's here. Uh oh. I'm having fun. We also got, I mean, you're going to get like an extended Rowan Report next time, but

we got an email we wanted to call out from our friend Lacey, also ends with an XOXO, signs off with an XOXO, who found our podcast midseason of House of the Dragon and would listen to us during bartending. And so we open and close the bar, which I think is just like, that's just us, perhaps. Thank you very much. They are now all caught up for Circe. Yes. Thank you for the email, Lacey. We're excited to open and close, or clopening, as they call it. Clop in the bar. Yes. That's what you call it in retail and bar and everything. That's what we called it at Office Max back in the day, bruh. And then it was clopening when it was me closing and opening. And everyone was excited because I was the cool manager. Maybe we should have called that, like Unleash the D is also the clopin-ing in a way, you know?

We did clopin. Yeah, we do clopin things. The season. Clopin on a D, yeah. Lots to think about. Wow, Lacey, inspirational to all of us. Thanks, Lacey. All right, time for the lightning round, which is what you missed between the last Cersei

chapter and this Cersei chapter. In A Face for Crows, we're going to start off with Brienne 5. Brienne leaves Maidenpool for salt pants, refusing to give up, playing it being a knight. Samwell 3. Sam punches Darren in the nose because he fucking deserves it. Xandou pulls him from the water. Jamie 3. Jamie does something worthwhile and punches red Ronit in the face.

There's a lot of punching. Yeah. In these chapters, huh? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And we ended with Cersei doing some slapping or wanting to slap in the last one. How can she slap? True. That leads us into Cersei 6. Everyone put on your Sunday best. We're going to the Sept. We're gonna meet the new High Septon and everything's gonna be great.

Amen. Can I get a Hallelujah? Can I get a Hallelujah? Do they have an Amen slash Hallelujah in...? I don't think so. They should. George, what are you doing? Oh my god. Well in the background of Hot D season 2 you can hear Old Church Slavonic in a Sept scene, so I don't know. There might be an Amen. If they have Old Church Slavonic, there might be an Amen. And if there's an Amen, there might be a Hallelujah.

Can I get a Hallelujah? Sister. Another? Hallelujah, sister. The climb up Visenya's hill is slow. Osmond announces the arrival of the Queen at the top, while inside the carriage, Lady Meriwether shares gossip about Margaery's court, including Margaery's favorite knights and singers, particularly the blue bard, who Cersei finds intriguing. More to come for future plans there. Cersei questions Margaery's virginity. Tyena claims, well, she says she is, but then recounts

details of the bedding ceremony. She says Renly was well-built, and Loras carried Margaery upstairs, and although Margaery insists the marriage wasn't consummated, Tyena suggests that Renly was aroused. But no proof, quote-un unquote, was presented the next day. I never realized the irony that the septas on Visenya's hail, considering Maegor's from her line. And Taina out here saying, yeah, Renly was definitely aroused by Margaery at the bedding and also being like, I saw Tyrian put the poison in the cup. Taina just loves to lie. It's very interesting.

She just loves lying. And I mean, we know from a few chapters ago that Cersei thinks that Renly would have bit anyways, but I do think it's interesting that her interiority doesn't question or think anything at all based on what she knows about her brother-in-law's sexual orientation. Right. That is her brother-in-law. I always forget that. Yeah. Damn. I don't know. I think that's a good point, but it also wouldn't necessarily surprise me if Teyna is like telling half of the truth. I think it's notable that Loras, who we know is Renly's lover, is the one carrying Margaery upstairs. So, I mean,

Erections can happen, you know, but that doesn't really mean anything. Tayna knows that it doesn't mean anything, right? But she's implying it to Cersei in a way that like, ooh, maybe it does mean something. Right, she's fishing. She put a little worm on the hook and she's waiting for Cersei to grasp at it. You don't have to call it a little worm. And like, that's what they implied also in like season two, right? Of uh, I was just gonna say, well, David and Dan.

We can have an air. David and Dan wrote the original series. That's what they wrote. And that's what George is adapting here, which is really, really subtle of George to adapt. Yeah. They're basically Tana. We have this quote, common peasant girls bled like pigs upon their wedding nights, she had heard, but that was less true of highborn maids like Margaery Tyrell. A lord's daughter

was more like to give her maiden head to a horse than a husband, it was said, and Margaery had been riding since she was old enough to walk. You could read this about bestiality, but it's not about that. You would take it there as the very first thing you said. Yeah. Welcome to Girl's Gone Canon. Um- It's not even in the notes, she just came up with that off the top.

I'm just, I'm so quick-witted, you know? And I do find this, this intriguing that like, first of all, yeah, you can, anything can break your hymen, to be honest. There isn't always bleeding. And second, like, I'm sure if there's a hymen, like, first of all, yeah, you can, anything can break your hymen, to be honest, there isn't always bleeding. And second, like, I'm sure if there's a hymen, like, people bleed different amounts anyway, like, I don't know if I had one or not. There was no blood. It's interesting the likening of the peasant girls bleeding to pigs, right?

Because we see a lot of this animal imagery, you know, the bravosi, like, make fun of the westerosi and they're like, yeah, y'all think you're like animals, you You're always like cavorting and saying like, you're a lion, you're a wolf, blah, blah, blah. But then calling them pigs, we see them like in and all the sparrows later on, all these humble animals, but also this meat thing going on. And it also sounds interestingly, like the highborn girls get a little more leeway and excuse if they don't bleed. But also we are told in a lot of different ways that their maidenheads have more worth or value just because it is, I don't know, used for these political exchanges. It's not actually worth more, but it matters in regards to succession. Whereas I think that a lot of lowborn girls were likely wed later than highborn girls because they didn't have to be sealing any political

alliances. Right? Somebody had to do the work. Yeah. And it's also smarter for people to be wed later in regards to raising a household and the survival of the actual birthing in terms of maternity and maternal mortality rates. And so like, obviously this is hearsay, but I am kind of wondering, you know, what kind of wedding and bedding ceremonies are there amongst the lowborn? You know, a lot of times those ceremonies do differ. Sometimes they'll probably have group ceremonies and like with all the rape going on, like, are all the peasant girls even really coming to their marriage as virgins? And also, regardless of whether they're being raped or not, their virginity is less policed anyway, right? People were fucking having sex all throughout history.

People are having sex. They're probably not really maintaining it. So I just think that this is an interesting- They're still doing it to this day. Yeah. Historically. This is a weird thing that Cersei believes. Absolutely. And like, I come from, my family comes from a very Catholic country. People are having lots of sex out of wedlock there. People love God in the Philippines and they're all having

sex. And they love sex too. People just love sex. But also, I don't know, like, some of them might be maintaining their virginity, some of them might not. Religion in society, like, depending on the society. We don't actually know how policed it is amongst, like, the low-born classes, but anyways, I just think it's an interesting assumption on Cersei's part, and it highlights the differences in regards to, like, privilege and the horse. Like, who fucking has a horse? I don't know. I think it does. I think it does for sure. And I think to your point about women being married later outside of the context of noble families, that was a thing historically.

So the sort of historical vibe for this is like the Wars of the Roses. And that's like a period in English history where there's like a strong divergence between noble and like commoner ages of marriage. Like the average person in the 1430s in England is getting married in like at the age of like 23 to 26.

Yeah. Which is a pretty normal age really, but that doesn't apply to like Queens, right? Yeah. And I think I wish, this is something that I wish like we kind of knew more about, we don't really see any sort of common wedding Yeah

Yeah So I just wish I wish that we knew more about these sort of ordinary people of westeros as a person who you know Loves social history as an ordinary person myself. Yeah as an ordinary person Well and coming back to kind of the symbolism of using pig? Pig is looked at as a dirty animal that rolls around in its own shit and mud. And it's looked at as dirty. I mean, pig is looked at as a poor, cheap animal that you could have, which is rude because pigs are wonderful and cute and make delicious food. Yeah, we look at it delicious.

Also, you know, you look at it as like a poor cut of meat, right? Like it's inexpensive. It's cheaper than most other cuts of meat. So it's really interesting she's calling them a pig. And then piggybacking. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Nice. Thank you. Wow.

Thank you. I'll be here literally all day. Fired. But yeah, piggybacking then too, like, it's so interesting how this is wedged between some of the Sam chapters, right, where the entire point is like, you put all of this fucking money and priority on virginity or on like, you know, when to have sex or when you're allowed to have sex, like, and how you grieve and how you're seen statistically by the public when you grieve and what you look like. And that's been a huge cornerstone of the Cersei chapters, right? She's been grieving and been under duress and like had to be publicly supervised Big Brother style this entire time.

But in real life, also for people that aren't putting up pageantry to remain in control of power of an entire country, in real life, you have sex when you're happy, when you're sad, when you love someone, or when you don't. Sex happens, so putting all this stigma around it is really interesting and feeds into a lot of what these Cersei chapters have thematically going on at the forefront. Yeah, sometimes you have sex when you hate someone too. Yeah, hate sex. It's sexy.

Yeah, all of the time. All the sex that I'm talking about is sexy. Cersei continues to probe for names of Margaery's suitors, or potential suitors, in her book. Tyena provides a list. Sir Lambert, Beard Norcross, Courtenay Greenhill, the Brothers Woodwright, Portifer, Lucantine, and frequent visitor Pycelle. She mentions Jalabarjo and the flirtations of Margaery's cousins, Eleanor, who's betrothed but yet flirts pretty freely, and Mega, who has a new suitor every night, including a potboy from the kitchens, if that's

a true statement. The drama. There is also talk that Mega might marry Lady Bulbor's brother, but she prefers Mark Mullendor, who lost an arm in the Blackwater. Cersei questions the value of a half-man, but Mega finds Mark sweet, and has asked Margaery to help her find a monkey for him. I love that. Mega and Mark need to get together, you guys. It's official. VB- A monkey? VB- Honestly, yeah. VB- Yeah! Mark Mulderan is a little monkey! VB- That's a- that's a poor fucking serious-

VB- That's a serious fucking gift! VB- Yeah, well she wants out of this betrothal, brah. She wants to marry Mark. And give him a little monkey. She wants to give him little monkeys. Well, well, I got in general on that. I think it's interesting, like, how much of a contrast there is between Margaery's constant and lively court and Cersei's own relatively barren social life. Like, say what you will about the Tyrells, which I know people in this call have said some certain things about the Tyrells before.

But their court is lively and open and it's attractive, both for Tommen as king and like a young child who doesn't have his siblings anymore, and to the people of Westeros as a whole. And I think a lot of Cersei's jealousy of Margaery and her particular obsession with it stems from this. She's comparing her own limited social life as the Han's daughter in King's Landing, right? We don't really hear about other people she was

friends with when she was a girl. And Tywin, I don't think he was a great guy to hang out with. So her own limited social life compared to this thrilling court that the Tyrells have seduced Wester with like she's right that the Tyrells are a threat to her position But it's like it's also very personal and not just because of the prophecy. It's like it makes her upset to see this Absolutely, and I mean she had she had some friends. She just you know, she just pushed them away as we talked about last episode and To put it lightly. And yeah, absolutely. Like I think she is like really miserable. It's like very almost like a schadenfreude. Like she's trying to project something onto it. And it feels very like I used to be the most popular here in high school, but now someone else has come, Katie

Heron has come and taken my entire retinue of people or something, right? Like, especially with the talk of like asking who has a crush on Marjorie, who's dating who, right? That is the gossip that they are discussing right now. It's not political machinations necessarily. And also, I think that there are maybe some political machinations necessarily. And also, I think that there are maybe some political machinations like, I don't know that all these people are really paying a visit to just Margaery because a lot of them are knights. Maybe something else is being discussed, especially

if Jalabar Jo is showing up and we know that he had political wants from Robert. So obviously he's going to go to the Queen who has the little king there around her. BF Yeah, it definitely was Jalabar, right? That's straight up quite obviously he hung around trying to get money to take his home back and swords to take his home back. And I think that's maybe sadder when you look at this picture because you both have pulled the absolute misery of it. Sure, maybe Margaery's ladies and cousins are excited to be at court, but really only because of what it affords them, right? The status that Marjorie has afforded them. She has what appear to be the luxuries of being a kindly queen with a lively court, and it's an investment that Cersei's father wouldn't have made for her, right? That's

really what it comes back to. Cersei was never allowed to love. She was never allowed to get close to people. She was told that's not how we do things. She was told that's not how we live our lives. Margaery, is she really having that great of a time when you think about it? Yes, she's all frolicking in the woods with her flowers, but she's being looked at as a money piece by everyone. Jalabarjo isn't probably annoying as shit. Can you imagine every day visiting them and like, oh Lady Marjorie, so beautiful, what a lively court. Do you have a few gold coins I could take to buy some ships and go steal my lands back? Or oh Marjorie, can't we take your dad's stuff into the woods and go hawking today?

Yeah, it's fun, but you're being used for your status too so like when you equate it Cersei is sad that nobody even wants to use her that's loneliness that's bitterness right she even is jealous of that is Margaery having that much fun no but it's still more fun than what Cersei's having happen to her yeah it's a dark mirror it's lonely at the top happened to her. Yeah, it's a dark mirror. It's lonely at the top. It's so confusing sometimes to be a queen. Yeah, it is. She does seem very confused. Sir Loris calls on them more than any of the others, morning and night, you know. What else do brothers do? I actually don't know. Literally don't know. Unless duty calls them away. They share everything, Tina says, who still has a realization and a wicked thought, and Cersei tells her to keep it to herself, for the sparrows are here,

and they abhor wickedness. Tina jokes that they also abhor soap and water, it seems. There's something that you said in the beginning of the episode, Eliana, when you opened up with Tiana loving to just lie. Beastiality? Yeah, just… okay, it was not the bestiality, but I know you are really excited to talk about bestiality today and every day for some reason. No. Maddie, do you see what I deal with? Insane. No, but also the way that she gets this wicked smile and she has like a oh a sinister thought like,

uh-huh-hoo, like obviously implying, I wonder if they share everything together, like their bodies, but also, you know two people who are twins that do share everything together, aka their bodies? Jamie and Cersei. So where do you think she's really getting the idea? Like, Cersei feels like she's fun and gossiping, and this is her new BFF, her Gossip Queen BFF, but like, obviously there are some hints and some tricks beyond the screen that we're seeing here behind the curtain that Tyena is probably plotting, scheming a little bit. Mm. Yeah, most people don't jump to- I think those siblings are fucking, except for people who

are siblings who are fucking. Right, and like, Tyena, the fact that you also are bringing it up, you're inspired, huh? Yeah, I mean, I think most people at this point know this about Cersei. What? What? Especially the Tyrells. They probably like low-key are talking about it.

But yeah, no, I'm going to be nicer to Tayna because I think Tayna deserves a little bit of defense. She's not necessarily on all of the time. I think it's worth considering her as a person, right? Because I think we see this sort of exotic, seductive, mystery woman from the free cities and we think, oh she's always doing some scheming. But she is her own character, right? She's not necessarily going to be on all of the time. And she is, like, an interesting thing about Tana

is that she's filling a kind of similar role for Cersei there, as Margaery and Loras have to each other. Like, they have been sharing everything, or at least Cersei thinks they have. And I don't think, I think that Tana isn't lying about some stuff. Like, I think that Taina is probably not lying to her about like her sort of pre-Orton lover. And I love the little back and forth provocations

that they come up with together. And I do think Taina, like I'm not saying that Taina is like just, you know, after Cersei's heart, but I think there's a possibility with like the description of her Mirish captain lover That Tana could be very well genuinely attracted to Cersei like it's not It's really weird if you're not attracted to Cersei, honestly So I wouldn't like rule that out as a possibility and I think that Tana and this is something my friend on Twitter

Her ad is at Hightower Funk her thing that she told me about and I definitely agree with is that Tana probably is genuinely attracted to Danger and this like might be genuinely thrilling for her. So I'm gonna be a little nicer to her, you know, some little like free cities, Italian solidarity and say that like maybe there's something else going on with Tana than just like deception. Sure. I just think it's funny that she's... I respect it, I think, is more of it. Like I said, like a slonze ass character, maybe she's also trying to survive, but I

like the idea that she's doing it because she's trying to suck up and is attracted to Cersei. I'm going to bring back the Mean Girls thing here again The interesting like fixation between Katie and Regina, right? Like yeah wants to be here wants to fuck Session there. Yeah, it's very complicated. I think they're very complicated relationship. Yeah, yeah just like Just manipulation. I mean, but I do think there's manipulation going on Yes I mean, but I do think there's manipulation going on Yes Yeah, but like I mean the lion could be like you as you're saying like saying some saying things to get someone to like you You know, you'll just be like, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah

Yeah, and I mean, I'm gonna be real I'm not gonna be nice to her cuz she's not real. So I hope that's okay with you guys Okay, that's fine with you guys. Okay, that's fine. That's fair. I've been cast as her. You're allowed to do that. Yeah, I mean, that said, like, I do think that she's, how did she get to this cute, funny idea about Marjorie and Loris fucking? D'no. I just, I think everyone like jumps to that conclusion and I just think it's so funny, like again, like as we discussed in book one with Ned, I'm like, Ned, how did you get to that conclusion? Yeah, it is a weird thing, right? Well, it's because they've been ruled by Targaryens for 300 years. That's true. They all fucking think that. Everyone's fucking-

But most importantly, the plot needed it. And that's the most important character in the plot. Right. Yeah. They gossip about the High Septon having no name. Tyena comments that in Myr, they all have names, and Cersei dismissively says, well, they all have names, but once they're elevated to High Septon, they have to let go of that last name. She says, the faith will tell you he no longer has any need of a man's name, for he has

become the avatar of the gods. So, this whole speech kind of reminds me a little bit of Barbary Dustin's speech regarding the maesters having dubious loyalty in which houses they came from, so fun stuff. STACEY Yeah, especially after talking a little bit about Lucien Frey last episode. That rings really loudly this episode, and there's something almost even faceless here going on in that.

In Myrrh we all have names. It does make me think of the Lace Serpent too, who also has a second name for herself outside of just Sarala of Myrrh. Makes me wonder if we're gonna learn a name for Tyena outside of Tyena Merryweather. Let's finally get to some Catholicism, everybody. It's time to learn about the church. The church? get to some Catholicism everybody. It's time to learn about the church. So like, I think this this tradition with the High Septon, it's inspired by the papal tradition to take a regnal name, so like a different name than the one that you were baptized with. That originated when Mercurius, a bishop named after the pagan

god Mercury, felt that his unchristian name was inappropriate for his new spiritual position. And it became more common in later centuries when popes the pagan god Mercury felt that his un-Christian name was inappropriate for his new spiritual position and it became more common in later centuries when popes with names of different origins were elected to the office. But now it's mostly about honoring a predecessor or a saint that the pope feels a particular connection to. Not taking a name has a symbolically similar resonance, ensuring that the high septum, just like the pope, is more thought of as part of the broader institution of the church rather than a merely temporal person.

And it's also a way to start over. You don't have to be associated with your career as a cardinal or as a member of the Most Devout, which can often be pretty scandalous. I love that because we have a lot of possibility for characters to take another name like John, right? Having that second name, I think that's really an interesting idea, not just here with the Faith of the Seven, but applied throughout the story and obviously applied with Aria's plot in Braavos. Also, my confirmation name was Mary after Mary Magdalene just putting that out there to know about anyone else's confirmation name but yeah I too have taken that second name been there yeah George did that yeah that's like one of the ours Raymond George our

our second R is fake BB yeah it's actually you got another new name from us from our podcast. Um... God bless this man. Amen. Hallelujah. Yeah. I love that it goes together with ideas of like, you know, rebirth. Um, which is a kind of different sect of Christianity. We're more associated with that. Anyways. That said, Cersei thinks it's easier to call the different high-septans the fat

one, the one before the fat one, the old one who died in his sleep, than it is to name them by their real names. Because apparently they take offense if you use their real names, because it reminds them they were born ordinary men, and they don't like that. Yeah, and I think it's also probably useful, and this is kind of related to the Barbary comment on maesters that it's useful that this hides how dominant noble houses like were and are in this institution to maintain its broader legitimacy. Ragnar names did kind of obscure just how many popes were like, we're seeing me or Medici or quantity.

Send me no name is doing the same thing, obscuring how many septants are a Hightower or Gardener or I guess Frey. That's I guess on the table, but I'm sure there have been tons of Hightower and Gardener and Rowan Hightceptants out there. Maybe they just needed to Frey harder. Maybe they just needed to fray harder. Ha! The words of Stannis. Thank you. Thank you.

Um, yeah, I just thought it was really interesting that the nobility, I mean the nobility also don't like being reminded that they're all ordinary as well, right? And there's something there that goes together with like, Cersei doesn't like being reminded of being a woman, kind of like, you know, Selena Meyer telling people, don't remind them that I'm a woman candidate, I'm a woman president! But... The Axis of Dick. Right.

I also think it's interesting how it's obscuring, as you were saying, the noble names and those ties, whereas you have the High Sparrow doing it as a... I mean, we don't know if he's anything or not, right? But it's actually like the... it's like faceless men shit, right? The removal of the sense of self for the cult shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Right back to it. Well, and that's pretty strong in Feast, right?

Yeah. It all manifests different ways. Good job, George. He gets a gold star sticker on this page right here. Boom. The new High Septon was born with filth beneath his fingernails, according to Lord Merryweather, and Cersei suspected as much. Pycelle told Cersei the history at length. Generally, they only elevate their own, but there had been some exceptions. King Baelor, for example, had elevated a stonemason who made beautiful work for the High Septon. He couldn't read, couldn't write, but Baelor called him the Smith Reborn in High Septon mortal flesh. Some claim he'd been poisoned by Baelor's hand to spare the realm the embarrassment.

After he died, an eight-year-old was then elevated for working miracles. So again, she retained all of this history. Cersei, history nerd, confirmed. And like there's a moment there where she like forgets some stuff for the religious history, but she comes back around and tells it all to Taina later. And I was like, she just needed a second to remember it all. So there's a lot here with Baelor the Blessed. He's like an incredibly important part of this chapter and the fact that he's brought up here first is very notable. Balor and Maegor are the two most important kings for the Faith's relationship with the Targaryen monarchy. And both monarchs weakened the political independence of the Faith in opposite ways. Maegor threw this like direct opposition and Balor threw like co-opting the Faith and turning it into almost his like own personal passion project. Yeah, so to give a little

historical Catholicism background, this lake does sort of mesh with sort of the history of the papacy. It's like part of the reason the Pope's became so historically powerful over the Western Church was that there was no major temporal authority in the city of Rome that could control them. So like you compare this to like the Byzantine emperors and Constantinople, like they could really push around, right, the patriarchs of Constantinople, but you can't do that to the Pope who's far away in Rome. It takes a long time to get to Rome from Constantinople. Even later on when the Frankish kings who were made emperors by the Pope,

were unable to dominate them. And the Holy Roman emperors, after that, fought really bitterly with the papacy over their ability to exert control over religious institutions, which created a centuries-long conflict in Italy, which the Holy Roman emperors mostly ended up losing. And physical control of Rome was incredibly important for this. Out of the second, a Holy Roman Emperor moved his court to Rome to try to keep a lid on the papacy, but like the papacy hated this and there was general pushback against this. There's like a strong encouragement for separations between the Emperor and the Pope. That

kept the papacy from being dominated by the Emperor, but it also reversed the consequence of this, as it made local noble families have a lot of influence over the papacy. Something that they fought bitterly and desperately for control over, and they usually dominated the Curia, which is the sort of IRL most devout. The loss of control of the papacy by Roman nobles often led to violence, which combined with some serious meddling by King Philip IV of France, actually led to the papacy abandoning the city of Rome for most of the 14th century

and removing themselves to Avignon. But there in France, Philip had a lot of impact on the papacy. So there's a lot of just this sort of history of control over like the physical person of the high septon or the pope mattering right and we see echoes of this in fire and blood where like the reach nobility has a lot of sway over the most of out when the high towers are able to like replace or intimidate high septons when they cause trouble this is what happened to the septans that opposed Magor and later Jaehaerys.

Baylor the Blessed ends this, right? Totally. He drags the faith to King's Landing. This kind of pressure on the Most of Out, it is like representative of Baylor as this kind of holy fool kind of personality, right? But also it's embarrassing for the faith, right? Like they can't, they can't like pick their own people anymore, they're getting pushed around by this guy in his twenties who is like weird about religion, right? Just because he's the king and compare this to like the centuries of like comparative independence or high tower influence over the faith.

And it's replaced with this like, frankly, really ruthless dominance from the monarchy like the high septum really becomes kind of a joke like by the time Cersei is around like the high septum has become like something that we can always just kind of push in and out and fuck with right and when Baylor embarrasses the faith right one of the ways that this is resolved is Viserys the second the hand at the time, he poisons Baelor's choice. And I'm sure the most of that was favorably inclined to the Hand suggestion, right, after, you know, doing away with some of this embarrassing stuff.

So yeah, and this like doesn't this doesn't go away after the reign of Viserys II. Like you see this in the Duck and Egg novellas where a septon in the Riverlands like rages against the reign of Ares the First in the Duck and Egg novellas where a septon in the riverlands like rages against the reign of Ares the First and the Mystery Knight. But in the sworn sword, we get a memory from Egg on the High Septon advising his father on like just how dangerous those Blackfyre bastards are to like legitimate members of the family. And then of course within Ace Waf right Tyrion selects his own High Septon after the riots and Cersei basically does away with him. So like you can't imagine this 200 years ago when like the only person who could have done that 200 years ago

was like the Hightower Lord. The monarchy couldn't get away with this, but like the monarchy now, after the reign of Baelor, has total control over the faith until this like very moment. Yeah, incredible analysis. I never really realized until you've pointed it out like this, after some of the stuff with Jaehaerys, we don't really hear much about the role that the faith plays as politically until like, I think, like you said, like the big change of Balor. So like just over the centuries, you can see like in the background how like their influence is dwindling in that way This is sort of like that death now then they come back Yeah

It loses independence for the most of out and it also is like in terms of influence for the high towers It's probably worse than like losing the actual taste of the dragons like this is a this is a really bad news for the reach Nobility, right that the that they don't get to select the high septon anymore reach nobility, right? That they don't get to select the High Septon anymore. Yeah. And I do think there's a little bit of a joke that George is playing with in there about like Pope Benedict the Ninth, right? He was the youngest in history to be elected. But he was pontiff at 20. But like, there's some history suggesting now, things coming up from different stories and different reports. They think that maybe he was like 12, that he was out there 12 years old.

But I really like what you've called out about also how it doesn't matter anymore and how like Tyrion, for example, saw through that, that it didn't matter very easily and was like, whatever, fuck it. Because we know he's a little cynical. And that's what I like about the guy, honestly, that he's like, none of this matters, they just need someone in a fucking sparkling crown to tell them what God thinks they should do. And Cersei is like, finding the same exact thing but for different reasons, which is very funny. She's like, what if I could bend them to my will? They don't matter. But Cersei is just like, dealing with something that nobody's ever had to deal with before,

which is the sparrows thing, right? Like, there's not been anything like this since really the dance and like then the Faith was in Old Town and didn't have to worry about this. So like this is a big deal and this is not something that I don't- I'm not even sure if Tywin could have pulled off electing a High Septon and I think I'll talk a little more later about why. But this is a challenge that no one sees coming. Yeah. Well, Taina jokes that her 8-year-old boy could be a High Septon, but he prefers swords to prayers. And Cersei agrees that many boys would make better choices than the current High Septon

and resolve to choose their master next time if this one annoys her. And there's a moment where Cersei calls Tano's son a real boy then for preferring to play with swords, yet I do think that's really interesting considering that she's restricting her own son from learning any of the martial arts of their culture. Oh, Cersei. Again, the Cersei hypocrisy report happens every episode. She can't help it. It's hard having all that going on in one head, man. She suggests bringing Tayna's son to court for Tommen's sake, hoping a little brother could help him move on from Margaery. Tayna worries that Russell would struggle in the city, but Cersei reassures her, recalling her own fears and her aunt's words about being a lioness. She believes

Russell would find his courage, allowing Tayna to see her son regularly. And Loki, I think just like parenting him and spending time with him would also go a long way. And he'd be like, I want to spend time with you, mom, instead of, I don't know, these other people. But who knows? Who knows? Yeah, there's something really, really sad about the hesitation for the way that Tyena is like, yeah, my son in the capital, because the truth of the matter is the capital's a fucking boiling pot like everyone can see it like going up the hill and the poor fellows like It's it's described in much a good place to bring a child not a great place I mean it also being BFFs with Queen Cersei right now

I don't know. I don't know and she she does tell Cersei, a little risky business, and she does tell Cersei her and Lord Orton are trying for a second child, and she kind of trails off, but she's like, because sometimes they die, and then Cersei has a horrible traumatic memory of Joffrey dying in the last moments, and a sudden memory stopped her heart, a drop of red blood hissing in a candle flame, a croaking voice that spoke of crowns and shrouds of death at the hands of the valonqar." Going back to Cersei's own earlier memory of Jenna's words about being a lioness, I love the little glimpses we get of Jenna acting as a maternal figure to Cersei whenever she could after Joanna died. Like whatever support she genuinely received as a child was from Jenna, but it wasn't enough.

And even there, like Jenna is encouraging her not to be afraid of being alone with just Tywin in King's Landing. And I think that's part of it because like she wouldn't be afraid to be alone with just Tywin and King's Landing because like to her Like Tywin she's a totally different relationship with Tywin than like her Siblings nephews do like yeah like her whole siblings Like Jenna and Kevin don't really understand that like Tywin does not give Cersei the same kind of support that he gave them, right? It's hard to imagine Tywin really standing up for Cersei the same way he stood up for Jena, right, when their father married her off to the Freys. That's a great point. And he doesn't quite see them as people, his children,

whereas his siblings get to be that. I also think, you know, yeah, Jenna got that encouragement, but she's kind of got like a magnetic personality to her too. Yeah. That's true. Everyone loves to hang out with Jenna. She does seem fun. Outside the litter jerks to a halt and Osmond Kettle Black shouts at the Sparrows to get out of the way. Meryn Trant informs Cersei that the Sparrows are camping in the street and they're being moved. Cersei warns them to that the Sparrows are camping in the street and they're being moved, Circe warns them to gently make the move as to not start another riot. Tina and her agree. This is absurd. Yeah, no, I love the hit HBO series House of the Dragon, the show that A Piece for Crows is based on, right? Because this basically happens to Alice, right? With the same thing outside the sept with Helena.

And then we also have an over-promoted loser like Kingsguard making things a lot worse. Very worse. Except the...the Kevill Blacks listen to Cersei while Aegon's goons don't listen to Alicent. Which is just, you know, I think that's just discrimination against bottoms, honestly. Huh! That's just discrimination against bottoms, honestly. Huh! Tyena says the Septon should have come to her, and they complain about the sparrows. The Septon coddles and blesses them, but won't bless the king.

Because ever since Aegon the Conqueror was anointed in Oldtown, that has become a precedent. The High Septon must anoint the king. Yeah, and this is another thing that has a historical basis. So the historical pull here is the investitures of the Holy Roman Emperors by the Pope. The refusal to invest the Holy Roman Emperor with the title of Emperor for Henry IV led to a major struggle between the Emperor and the Pope. The Pope declared that he could depose the Emperor whenever he wanted to, and he excommunicated Henry and made him stand barefoot in the snow until he thought he was sorry. Oh Jesus. Yeah, that happened at Kenosha and it led to a war

between Henry IV and the Pope and led to the conflict I mentioned earlier with the Guelphs and the Givoleans. Henry IV's successor, Henry V, eventually did get a peace treaty where the emperors couldn't be deposed by the pope, but he did have to give up a bunch of control over the church after that. So this is a major deal, right? This is, the Septon not anointing him as king is basically saying to Cersei

that the Septon gets to decide who gets to be king, which is a huge deal. And it's relevant because Aegon I always dated his reign from when he was anointed by the High Septon, right? That's how he personally dated being king of Westeros. So this is a major deal. This is something that Cersei unfortunately does have to go down and deal with. Yes, and she's gonna make the right decision. I just know it. I just know it. I trust her. Cersei says that the wretched priest will obey or he will learn how weak and human he

is. Oh, I'm a little wet. I'd like to learn how weak and human I am. Mother. Bottoms Delight. Oh, something interesting here with, you know, like- With Cersei donning me? Uh, that too. But like, I don't know, sometimes I feel like the Pope is like put into a sort of like father role or Septon is put into like a father role and you have mother and father fighting. Interesting.

Oh, the mother and the father, really. Yes, yes. But really we mean a lion and a borg. It's kind of interesting though in the context of the faith though, because the father represents justice and the mother represents mercy. And if anything with Cersei and the high septin, it's kind of the other way around. I feel like none of them, neither of them, represent any of those things. Well, yeah. But if you had to pick one for each of them, right? Yeah. Taina comments that Orton thinks he just wants the crown to resume paying

them before blessing Tommen, and Cersei's like, yeah, when there's peace, that is exactly what I plan to do. It's an ongoing thread from the previous chapters in which I'm like, have we considered paying literally anyone first? Anyone who's not named Orain Waters, can they get paid? It kind of is like everybody just wants their money and maybe her situation could be better, but also it reveals how much the crown has always taken and taken and taken, right? Yeah, that's true. Like they've always taken and taken and now finally this is the first person that isn't

just paying up to keep it quiet. And guess what? It turns out the crown's debts are major. Yeah. And they're not something that I think this is another another way this is a bad thing for Cersei to say is that the wars that the Crown is fighting right now are not wars that they can expect to get a payout from. So there's not gonna be money when there's peace. There's gonna be less money, actually.

That's a really good point. Well, Cersei thinks that they had to have ships and she can't rely on the Redwines, and she needs her own strength at sea and thinks her flagship would dip twice as many oars as King Robert's hammer. STACEY I do think that this passage, she does say some things that are smart. She does need to have her own naval power. The crown is broke as we just talked about. It's giving poor and it's giving major poor. STACEY It's giving common pigs. STACEY It's giving common poor. They're just giving common pigs. It's giving common pigs. They cannot afford to pay their bills.

It's like in The Sims 4 when you're playing and it's like you have 24 hours to pay your bills or returning your lights off and then they turn your lights off. That's happening to Cersei. That also happens in real life. So The Sims could fix Cersei. We're back to this. We're back to this. Yes, this is my biggest take. Honestly, baby. But, I mean really though, it would be fun for her. It would do what she wants, to control people with a click of a button. I think she did learn, though, from the Greyjoy Rebellion, right? Things were quiet, you know, everything seemed fine, but their rule was weak, and

Baelin was like, time to play, motherfuckers. And, I mean, the first place that Euron and Victarion landed was Lannisport. They kicked it off in first place that Euron and Victarion landed was Lannisport. They kicked it off in Lannisport, right? Victarion tossed the first torch onto the flagship of Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock. So very important that she understands naval warfare is important. That said, she has a lot of other issues to cover before dealing with the naval warfare right now. Definitely, and like another thing is that the Blanisters at this point are really reliant on the Red Wine fleet, which is obviously like sort of in the Tyrell orbit, and that is not good, right? So like it needs to happen, and the thing is, the problem is that she's just trusting someone in a reign that who maybe does

not have her best interests at heart. For real on that. Next we have Orain also asking, oh, can I name my new dromund, Lord Tywin? And Circe was pleased. She looked forward to hearing men speak of her father as a she. There's a lot to dig into there. Oh my god. JAYLEE This is something Rowan loves to talk about. But yeah, there is so much there, right, with her lovingly idea of Tywin being referred to as a woman because he would have hated it. He would have hated it. STACEY I'll show you to value your gender, Tywin. JAYLEE Yeah. STACEY Another of the ships is called Sweet Ssei, with her likeness as the Figurehead, clad in male and

lion helm, spear in hand. The others were named Brave Joffrey, Lady Joana, Lioness, and then five that Tommen was allowed to name, Queen Margaery, Golden Rose, Lord Renly, Lady Olenna, and Princess Myrcella. There's a line that he had chosen Moonboy for one, and Lord Orane was like, you might not want to name it that because people might not want to serve on a ship named for a fool. So reluctantly, Tommen names it Myrcella. I'm like, okay, Tommen, strike one for you, reluctantly. That girl's gonna take your crown, so you better fucking watch out, Tommen. Interesting though, because it mirrors the Baylor story from earlier, right? He wanted to put his fool as a ship's name, just like Baylor putting the young eight-year-old brilliant gifted kid as the High Septon. And also reminds me a little bit of the Dance

of the Dragons, where you have Game and Palehair as whipping boy for Aegon and kind of also being put up as potentially a king at one point and Rhaenyra and Mushroom, right? Their relationship. Like having a fool that you're close with and having a fool. Obviously the court looks at it as a status thing as like why would you elevate your fool that's your motherfucking fool as Ore just said here, but Mushroom was her closest buddy, quote unquote, maybe according to one book. Yeah, according to the testimony of Mushroom. Yeah, allegedly. By Mushroom.

So he threw it at anybody here. Yeah, according to Mushroom. Yeah. Yeah. The testimony of Mushroom is just an erotic fanfiction. That's it. Is that? That was it.

That was it? Oh, okay. I thought you were... As someone who actually does have erotic fanfiction of Rainier, uh... Huh. Maddie was waiting. Maddie was like, oh, Maddie's like really good friends. Really good friends.

Don't you... They're roommates. Steering the ship back on course. Good luck. Wow. Really good friends. Really good friends. Don't you? They're roommates. Steering the ship back on course. Good luck. Wow. Yes. Amazing. Hired. Hired. She's starboard right now. Thank you. So anyways, Tyrell influence really is creeping in on Tommen, and he wants to name these ships after Tyrells, or people close to the Tyrell cause. And it's funny in the sense that like, or people close to the Tyrell cause. And it's funny in the sense that like, Cersei fully believes that her nominally Baratheon son needs to be a loyal

Lannister and name his ships after Lannisters. But the Tyrells are making him into one of them and making him name his ship after Tyrells, with the exception of Renly, who was still like a rebel against his brother, even if he was his uncle. So yeah, so Tommen ends up being this vessel for the Lannisters and the Tyrells both, and Cersei is worrying that he's only going to be a vessel for the Tyrells and not a vessel for her anymore. And you do see a ship as a pretty common metaphor for like a state or a kingdom. And here Cersei wants herself on her ship, the sweet Cersei, to be in armor leading the vessel, dominating the monarchy. But she's only one ship and the Tyrells

have five. I did notice it kind of reminded me of Joanna Lannister, Joanna Westerling from the dance as well, the way like the the gilded figurehead of the ship was described. I thought that was interesting, especially in proximity to her mother, Joanna. Cersei insists she won't buy Tommen's blessing, and the litter stops as they reach the top of the hill with the sept of Baelor ahead, but between her and the steps lies a squalid sea of ragged, unwashed people, which appalls her, especially the sparrows with their smell, cook fires, and makesh Cersei does walk through it, but, but Danny's is like, I'm gonna walk

through and like really meet the people and mingle upon them because she was like, I'm, I'm built different, you know, like, I'm not gonna get sick. And I totally relate to this as someone who like this past week, and I was like, I'm built different. I'm not gonna get sick. And you know what, I'm fucking sick, and this sucks. But you know, you can tell that even though maybe it looks a little similar on the outside, the interiority of the characters show that they have completely different mindsets to how they're approaching this. Yeah, that's a really great point, especially comparing their rules and all of the hardships that are coming upon them in this book and the next book.

comparing their rules and all of the hardships that are coming upon them in this book and the next book. Osford and Osmond Approach Osford is quieter and crueller than his siblings would hit, so you know. He's on the City Watch. Cersei wonders if she should have sent him to the Wall instead, recalling how she made him commander of the City Watch despite council opposition, particularly from Pycelle, who argued he lacked experience. Pysel sometimes is right, just saying. But that said, he's very much described kind of like Tyena's lover, right? Being

quieter but crueller. And I had to include the best line of all. Maddy knows this. This is a great line. They yap at me like a pack of small, annoying dogs. Her patience with Tysell had all but run its course. He had even had the temerity to object to her sending to Dorne for a master at Arms, on the grounds that it might offend the Tyrells. When I first started taking notes on this chapter, I took a picture of Epheser Cross and sent it to Chloe and said I love her so much but they yap at me like a smack pack of small annoying dogs that has entered my regular vocabulary by the way I need to

say even more like I want it to be like in my vernacular the thing I say first thing I like think so we've really got to work on that they yap at me like a pack of small annoying dogs but yeah this is I think this is kind of odd advice from Pysal and I know you guys talked about it last week. The Tyrells definitely do not need more power. And Cersei sending to Dorne for someone to replace Ser Aeron Santigar, a Dornish knight isn't rocking the boat at all. Like that's like total continuity, even if the Tyrells are like whining about it, right? The Dornish are also part of their alliance system,

whether Mace likes it or not. And like, this is kind of a strange thing for Pysel to say. I wonder if he's starting to consider like, are the Lannisters in charge anymore? Are they cooked? Yeah. I love that you, I never thought about it that way, but yeah, I think he's looking for a new master, right? Like, a dog looking for a new owner, basically, because he's not getting what he needs from the Lannisters, they're not keeping him on the hook. And I love the point you've made. This is just continuity, like they have to keep the Dornish aligned and gonna be honest, the Dornish have more swords to offer them. Realistically, not that they're going to get those swords, they're gonna get those swords just in their back, not to use them in war.

Those swords are gonna murder them. But those swords are bigger swords and more swords and potentially could do better work against some of the armies in Westeros if they needed them. It's important that Cersei keeps them dangling on the line too, not to mention they have Myrcella. BD Yeah, that's a huge deal. STAN She can protect Tom in as much as she can, quote unquote, here at court, but she can't protect Myrcella. STAN Or if she needs to protect their reigning from, I don't know, as we see a claim from Myrcella.

STAN Yeah. STAN And I like what you said here about is Pysel a jumping ship, whether or not he is, but with all of these and those alliances, it seems like they're having parties, but we know that it's exactly this kind of tea party where they decided, alright, we're gonna fucking off Joffrey. STACEY Ha, tea party? You mean like a moon tea party? STACEY Oh!

STACEY From Pysel. STACEY I mean, whether it is, it might be and might be. They're hitting several birds with one stone. They're multitasking in these get togethers. They're not just socializing and having fun. These are places where people cannot hear them. The way that Butter Bumps was singing Butter Bumpin, you know, very loudly. Butter Bumpin', you know, very loudly. Bumpernit, 365. Club classics. I'm so sick of this podcast.

When will I be free? Tell Circe to wait, that they will clear a path, but she says that she doesn't have time and she'll continue on foot. Tayna catches her arm and says that they frighten her, but Cersei kisses her cheek. Dang. Dang. All right, moves. Telling her the lion does not fear the sparrow, but she knows that she loves her well. Oh my god. That's some ridiculous bottom behavior from Tayna, by the way. Power bottom behavior.

That is some bottom behavior. And you know what? I think it's to quote, you know, one of our hosts. I think it's giving Cersei a Cersei boner. I think it is. I know it's big. I think she likes it. Oh my god. Oh yeah. Wow. Like, huge. Um, we are here at Bessenya's Hill, notorious wielder also. That's true. Yeah. That's true. Dark sister.'s true. Dark sister. Yeah. Strap. Dark sister. Exactly. Down Cersei comes wearing a white gown slashed with cloth of gold. Lacey and Demure thinking, had I known I was going to walk, I would have dressed for it. George, you motherfucker.

Right there. Had I known I was going to walk, I would have dressed for it. And then the walk later. He's such a little bitch That is sneaky. I see what he's doing here. Yeah, like Cersei describes her gown as like somewhat demure, but it's it's got a lot of lace on it and lace is like a mirror-ish in Westeros like lace is mostly exported from here So I think that's interesting and its description really makes it sound like a wedding gown. Her and Taina. It fits in with her and thinking about her wedding later. But also like it is kind of a marriage. Like Cersei is mirroring her political portions to the faith and just like

her previous marriage it will end badly. But yeah if if I were Taina I'd be asking like what are we like we're going to the church together. Cersei's in a white dress. We're on Visenya's Hill. Like, are we legalizing gay marriage? Like, what's going on here? Like, is this happening? Let's do it. I can't believe Cersei Lannister

legalized gay marriage in Westeros. This is amazing. Amazing. It would have made her happier. Yeah. She commands Osmond and Maren to accompany her and Osfred to guard her litter. She makes Osmund and Meryn to accompany her, and Osfrid to guard her litter. She makes her way through the shelters, remembering the day she wed Robert and the thousands that came to cheer for her then here. We have a little memory from Cersei.

When she had emerged from inside the sept, hand in hand with the young king, the crowd sent up a roar so loud it could be heard in Lannisport. They like you well, my lady, Robert whispered in her ear. See, every face is smiling. For that one short moment she had been happy in her marriage, until she chanced to glance at Jaime. No, she remembered thinking. Not every face, my lord. No one was smiling now." Not every face, my lord. No one was smiling now. Yeah, it's an appropriate thing for her to think about, right? Because like in many ways, like all of these people crowding around the Sept, like this is like the ultimate outcome of this awful marriage, right? It was nothing but suffering for everyone, and it only led to suffering for everyone.

Yeah, the entire war. Yeah. Yeah. Right? The lies that it was for. Robert's Rebellion, which was built on a lie. That's what they say. Eliana's face, she's gonna puke. It's really sad because you see the way that she could have been a great queen and you

see the way, like, her and Robert's reign was obviously tainted from the start but you start to kind of get that cut out path of like these glimmering moments where she could have been a beautiful golden queen and now it's all rotted and gone to shit. Like everything that Robert fought for was not really for the realm. He fought for, you know, a girl he put on a pedestal in his mind. And because a bunch of dudes put him up to him, we're like, come on, you're the rightful king. You got to do it for Ned's brother and for Ned's dad and for peace and freedom and so that we can get the world back from these crazy Targaryens, man. And then he just goes and he has nothing. and he and Cersei hate each other and just...

Could have been good! Could have been great! Should have could have been. I can't tell. I legitimately don't know if it was always fucked from the beginning, considering how he beats her. Yeah. Or... Yeah. Yeah.

Or... you know, not? So, I don't know. I don't think they could have ruled well together, but I think she could have ruled well with the right person. That's true. The problem is she's been in a situationship with her brother for how many years now? Twenty? Five? It is a- it actually is a situationship, that's the weird thing about it. Will they? Won't they? Will they continue?

It is kind of hard to make it official when you're twin siblings. Well, the sparrows move for her, reluctantly, looking solid and hostile. She thinks that Tywin would have ridden them down with a hundred gold cloaks instead of walking through it. When she saw what they had done to Baelor the Beloved, the Queen had cause to rue her soft heart. The great marble statue that had smiled serenely over the plaza for a hundred years was waist-deep in a heap of bones and skulls. Some of the skulls had scraps of flesh still clinging to them. A crow sat atop one such, drawing a dry leathery face. Flies were everywhere.

What is the meaning of this? Cersei demanded of the crowd. Do you mean to bury blessed Baelor in a mountain of carrion? Back to my earlier point. I got a little too into being Cersei there for a second. Method acting, method acting. She was still in it. She was exulting. The Sparrows... yeah, exactly. The Sparrows do want to bury blessed Baelor's memory and bring back a mountain of Garian. They do want to remilitarize the faith.

They're turning the faith into an army. And Baelor, who was like, you know, say what you will about the guy. He was a peacemaker, right? It's kind of the opposite of that, right? They just want to throw in another army into into into this whole mess. I mean, why not? Why not? Yeah, I mean, no, they're not wrong to do it. They're really not but it'll be fun. Look at all the fun We're having yeah, I like that they use the word carrion here, you know, cuz they are supposed to be the sparrows but it Puts them as like vultures word carrion here, you know, because they are supposed to be the sparrows, but it puts them as like vultures, right?

Scavengers and, you know, there's that thing about the vultures and I don't know, this is a long move, but you know, it makes me think of the Vulture King and also Baylor the Blessed. And that didn't go too well, but whatever. People came out of it calling him a hero, and there is something, honestly, it is really moving to me. The fact that these people have made this pilgrimage all the way to King's Landing, carrying the bones of their loved ones, their holy people, those who were persecuted all the way here. When you think about how much it means to Barbary Dustin that the bones of her husband were never fucking brought back. And you think about how they're like, where are Ned's bones? The fact that these people brought these here to make a statement to force the people to behold the violence that is coming,

I think that's incredibly moving. And it also makes me think to an extent, because there is that religious persecution going on here. George has, you know, a big part of his life was being against the Vietnam War, and it makes me think of the persecution of the Buddhist monks in South Vietnam. That's all. No, that's definitely really meaningful that they would bring these bones, these relics, right? And they're treating them like as you would a saint, right? In Catholicism, you know. These are all the saints of the Riverlands that have been slaughtered usually by the Lannisters, and Cersei's gonna try to get around that, but there really isn't a way

to get around it. Well, and it's like a pilgrimage, right? To the Holy Land for freedom, for gaining some sort of something from God or from the seven-faced God, whoever he may be. And it makes me think a little bit of what's happening kind of simultaneously in dance at the wall with the free folk and Storm, right, with the free folk bringing their last things they have from beyond the wall and being forced to kind of give them up. It's not unlike that in the way that they're making a pilgrimage across the wall, too, and having to test their faith in the things they believe in for safety,

security. LS – Yeah. A one-legged man on crutches informs Cersei the bones around them belong to holy men and women murdered for their faith. She solemnly declares, King Tommen shares their outrage, blaming Stannis, his red witch, and the Northern savages, insisting their dead shall be avenged. Yes, that's who did this. Only a few cheer, and another man explains, well, we seek protection for the living and the septs, not vengeance. A man with a seven-pointed star adds, the Iron Throne must defend the faith. A king who does not protect his people is no

King at all No, I mean this is a big deal like Kiburn advises Cersei to emphasize the religious differences between her and her enemies on the assumption that like it will like kind of assuage people's Feelings here, right? There's some good old fashioned religious hatred against Stannis' foreign religion and the northerners who are all pagans that worship trees, but this is not working.

We've, this sort of narrow base appeal that, well, we're the only choice you've got, is just not working on these people. And something new has really been unleashed here. And it's difficult for victims of Lannister atrocities to blame Stannis, who like, they've not seen at all, right? I mean, Stannis hasn't done very much in a lot of the rest of the country. If you think about it, he's just been completely unable to do so. Not that he didn't want to, just unable. And I think there's an interesting irony here too as they blame Stannis for it.

And I'm not giving Stannis props here. I'm just saying that this is a line that was used by him, etc. in book three regarding that idea of a king who does not protect his people's no king at all Right, he brings that up when going to the wall, etc But anyway, yeah, and you know Stanis does believe that but it's also a very to have it coming from a commoner here He's very revolutionary, right? So George has described the Sparrows movement as being a militant Protestant Reformation. And I think this is largely based on a pop historical misunderstanding of the Reformation. Essentially the difference is that the Sparrows are trying to do kind of the opposite as to

what Barton Luther was kind of trying to do. But saying that a king who does not protect his people is no king at all is a Reformation concept and it comes to it seems to me to be an endorsement tentatively. There's something like Calvinist rebellion theory the idea that an ungodly monarch needs to be deposed and replaced by a godly one for the good of the whole church and the whole people. The church does not have, like the state does not have authority over God and the king needs to be godly. So this theory was spearheaded probably most famously by John Knox who was the leader of the Scottish Reformation and he lays this out very conclusively

against Mary Queen of Scots in his sermon which is called the first blast of the trumpet against the monstrance regiment of women and I'm not gonna quote from it extensively but it's basically what it says on the tin there and yeah if you want to know what kind of stuff is going to be used against Cersei or Daenerys by the High Sparrow and sort of future books? I would recommend checking out that little sermon from Jon Nox because it's insane But yeah, but this is new stuff for Westeros, right? We only get like smatterings of similar ideas in the days of Maegor

So that's sort of the very end of the dance with the shepherd but in those days the church hierarchy are on the side of Them so like I do think it is a little unfair to assume that Cersei can predict what happens next. Like, the High Sparrow is operating under some pretty revolutionary political theory for Westeros, and no one has had to deal with this in centuries. So this is like, this is this is some real new ground that we're treading. Yeah, especially when like the previous answers were compromise, make them sign something, and make them let me marry my sibling or like kill them all.

Like those are the two previous answers. So... And the Lannisters and Tyrells do not have dragons to deal with this. Exactly. They definitely do not. I'm kind of grateful, but also like that's why they can't solve it. Yeah, well, but I don't know though, because right, like, because the last time there was something like that, they killed more dragons than like anybody else. So I don't know. It's a serious thing. Dragons are pretty, they're pretty important. One man demands Sir Meryn to defend the Holy Faith. He grabs Sir Meryn, and I can't believe he did it. He's like, you must defend the Holy Faith if you love the Seven. And Cersei assures them that her young son loves the Seven and will provide protection. But the man with the star remains unsatisfied, saying the warrior will defend them,

not the fat boy king. and I'm like, dang. Tommen catching strays. He's just a little boy, leave him alone, what the fuck. I know. Leave him alone. Leave him alone. But this comes back, this comes back. Yeah, I think it's hilarious that they grabbed Maren's wrist.

Less hilarious because Maren starts reaching for his sword. Cersei prevents him. Aw, it's just like, Jesus being like, don't cut off this man's ear. Um. Cersei is Jesus. Aware, they are outnumbered by armed sparrows. She declares there will be no bloodshed and tries to move toward the sept, but a group in white surcoats with red stars blocks her. Cersei asks about Septin Raynard and Septon Torbert recalling how they usually wash her feet. Interesting.

LS. Jesus. Cersei whacked, like last episode. KS. Yeah, I was like, people put black bars over Cersei's feet in those photos. But one man says they are needed by the Seven. Seriously, he insists they are of the most devout and will be furious at her obstruction. The men allow her entry but demand her knights leave their swords outside, stating that in God's house no weapons are permitted. Very, very vastothraka them. This is the High Sparrow exercising a lot of political independence from the monarchy. Like this is a big deal, right? I mean, especially given how in the past High Septans have been just killed, right? That

the High Sparrow is able to enforce no swords in my church, that's a big deal. This is a lot of, he's exerting political independence from the job here. Yeah. Cersei climbs the steps alone and finds a group of septons on their knees cleaning in the Hall of Lamps. She spots her friend, Septon Reynard, and is like, why are you down there, bro? What are you doing? A small man explains suddenly that work is a form of prayer for the smith, and he welcomes her. She says, are you our new High Holiness? And he says, we are. Oh great, we are legion.

LBGW- Whoa. STACEY Though she knows she should kneel, she refrains. She doesn't want to ruin her gown in the wet, dirty, soapy water, and then she asks about her friend Torbert. The man tells her he's confined to a penitent cell with only bread and water for being too plump while half the realm starves. Yeah, I think that's interesting, because Cersei would never interpret it this way. But I do wonder if this is kind of a pointed nod at her, because she does admit earlier that her dress is a little too tight. And either way, even if this is not about her, this new faith organization led by the Sparrows is incredibly ruthless and they're willing to exert stringent control

Over bodies to pursue their agenda. I think this is a pretty solid foreshadowing of what's going to happen to Cersei in later chapters Yeah And coming back to like what they said about Tommen, right? They also look at him as he's just got a little too much stuffing for this winter Yeah, and sure would make a good meal He's just got a little too much stuffing for this winter. Yeah. And then in part, so like, the wealth you brought up Cersei's dress, not only is it tight, it's white. And I remember I had a manager once who told me like, this is how you can tell. So like if someone's rich, if they wear a lot of white, because that means they

can afford to keep it clean, to get it cleaned all the time. Yep. She should have, uh, she thought this was a demure choice, but maybe she should have gone a little lesser than this. Maybe a little more potato sack, you know? It's interesting, because coming back to kind of the idea, obviously there's the idea of the wealthy and the ruling class being heavier, due to having the luxuries and that being a little bit frowned upon probably by the people that are fucking starving. And you think of like Ptolemy Alexander, Henry VIII obviously is a big one, Caroline of Ansbach who was the fat funny queen. Love her, love her. George II's wife, George IV, but then also George IV's wife, Carolyn of Brunswick,

is an interesting one. She had an umbilical hernia that bloated her, so she couldn't wear tight clothing around her waist. But also, she was the only queen that was tried for adultery at the time. She and George separated after their first daughter, Charlotte, was born, and everyone kind of accuses Carolyn of taking up lovers. Good for her, if so. George even goes as far to not speak to Caroline like her whole life, and by the time her daughter dies in childbirth, she has to find out from like courtiers and servants. He's like, no one fucking tell her, fuck that bitch. So he attempted to divorce her by introducing the Pains and Penalties Bill to Parliament in 1820, but he was so unpopular and the bill was so unpopular and she was actually pretty popular that it ended up withdrawn by the Liverpool ministry.

So I don't know that I'd say Cersei was popular, but I did think it was interesting that being tried for adultery the first. B That could be something he's thinking about when George is writing this. Yeah. Cersei puts on her I'm the manager Karen bitch voice and is like, do you know who I am? And he's like, kings and queens should be bowing before the seven. She tells him he should have met her on the steps in his finest robes with the crown her father gave his predecessor. And he frowns and he's like, we'll be sold that for food and for the poor. Alongside all the vaults of treasures and rings and robes, wool will keep them warm. That's why Jesus made sheep. It's not what he said, but it's basically what he said.

Yeah. The idea that kings and queens should bow before a spiritual authority was expressed in the medieval church. And I mentioned earlier with the sort of Calvinism reference there too, but the Papal Bowl Unam Sanctam, which is one of the many things that led King Philip the Fair to get Pope Boniface the Eighth beaten to death. By the way, if you ever want to have a little fun, read King Philip the Fair's Wikipedia article. That guy was a real piece of work. But yeah, this is proposing like a serious realignment in power for a religion

that George described in the interview where he described it as the Reformation as a religion that was destroyed by the Targaryens. Like this is an aggressive assertion of power, right? Yeah, I love that. I love that. And it is really interesting, right? Because not only are they asserting that power, they're showing that they don't need a crown to inspire loyalty and obedience. They don't need those same trappings of power that Circe and the current regime rely upon. They created new rituals and belief systems and imbued those with power themselves. Circe thinks he's utterly mad. She's pretty angry, probably, but Qyburn's Whispers had said that Lucian was, is this

an Eeveelution, was nine votes away from winning when the doors gave way. The Sparrows poured in and the Septon was elevated. Yeah, leaving aside for a moment that it's kind of insane that they tried to get a Frey elected High Septon when all these people from the riverlands are in there like rioting This also kind of did happen. There's another Catholicism moment. So like It does have a historical parallel with the election of Pope Urban the sixth in 1378 mobs appeared outside the Sistine Chapel demanding the election of a Roman or at least an Italian pope

to a conclave dominated by French bishops. This cowing led to an almost unanimous vote for Urban VI, who was an Italian bishop, who immediately antagonized all the French bishops and by forbidding bribery and the holding of multiple offices. So the angry French cardinals, considering the pope to have gone mad with power, declared that they had been coerced into selecting Urban, which in fairness they kind of were, flooded the city of Rome and moved back to Avignon, electing a new pope and starting a schism between the Catholic Church in France, Spain and

Scotland and the Catholic Church in Italy, Germany, and England, because Urban refused to give up power when they elected a new pope. So Urban VI is definitely kind of the closest historical thing to the High Sparrow. Interesting. Mad with power. I feel like I might have been taught this at one point, but completely forgot it. And all I have to say is like, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you.

Thank you for being here, Maddie. Yeah, thanks for reminding me of everything that I've repressed. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to draw the Catholicism back out of you. You're here for more than that. Let us pray. Seriously, and I'm going to show you how you're here for more than that in a second, because seriously, Ask This Holiness to speak privately and they go to the set proper.

Dust motes swam in the beams of colored light, slanting down through the lettered glass of the great dome. Incense sweetened the air, and beside the seven altars, candles shone like stars. A thousand twinkled for the mother and near as many for the maid, but you could count on the stranger's candles on two hands and still have fingers left. Even here the sparrows had invaded." A dozen hedge knights pray at the warrior. A septon leads a hundred sparrows at the mother's altar, and the high septon leads Cersei to the crone, where he kneels and she must kneel

beside him. I thought it was so great and humbling and aiana call out, you know that Cersei is being forced to pray at the crone which obviously Cersei has major fucking issues with dealing with the idea of aging and Becoming older and old women. So listen really fun. Very humbling as What as an old woman go ahead? Yeah during Pat's episode g gilfs. Or, gay gilfs. She's not gonna live long enough to be a gilf, so... Yeah, that's true. That's really sad.

That's devastating. She would've been so good. Maddie, Hippocras report, what number are we on? Are we still on number one? We're still on number one. Well, get going! The chapter's about to ramp up! Get it going, Maddie! I'm pacing myself, Chloe, god. That's probably what smart people do, pace themselves. This is a thirsty chapter. Chloe's trying to remotely Chloe me.

She's trying to Chloe me from a distance. It might work. We've only got a few pages left in this chapter, I'm just saying. When the High Septon finishes his prayer, he stays kneeling. A small man's ploy, she thinks. She tells him she wants the sparrows gone back to where they came from. And the Septon's like, well, they come from everywhere, so that's kind of hard to do, jot that down. They are humble birds slash men. Ah-ha. Many kind of outlaws, many kind of birds. She asks if he's seen the Baylor statue, and he reminds her that Joffrey cut Ned the fuck up at that statue that one time.

She's like, well, Ned was a dirty fucking traitor, if you remember. And also, Baylor pleads forgiveness. He gives forgiveness. That was his whole thing-ish. I'm like, he locks his sisters up. That was his whole thing. Well. I'm like, he locks his sisters up. That was his whole thing. Well, it was kind of two things. But, uh, yeah, Cersei is once again, eager to try and portray the Starks as the face natural enemies, but the High Sparrow is like Nazi. It was like seeing through her bullshit immediately.

He's ministered to the people of the Riverlands his whole life, and he knows that despite Stark atrocities, only one side said, we're going to burn the Riverlands from the gods. We're hungry. Fuck bitches, get money. Baylor felt the opposite, right? And that's what Cersei remembers. She thinks about the Maidenvault sisters imprisoned solely for being beautiful. And we have this line here of, the first time Cersei heard that tale, she'd gone to Tyrion's nursery and pinched the little monster till he cried. I should have pinched his nose shut and stuffed my sock into his mouth. She forced herself to smile. So you're uncoated. Wow.

Wow. Cersei! Yeah. Cersei's thoughts here are really interesting to me because obviously the historical narrative around the Maiden Vault is like, Baelor was just too horny and so he threw his sisters in prison. But the person who benefits the most from this is Viserys II, who takes advantage of their imprisonment to succeed to the throne on what is basically just like a new idea about the Great Council of 101. So Viserys is like the Hand at this time.

He's very much a Tywin-esque figure and Cersei Furious had a young Tyrion, the brother Tywin had always placed her in competition with for like affection and attention. But to me that really like connects to this, right? Because it's like notable that like I don't imagine the girls in the main vault were mad at Viserys for his role in this, but they definitely were mad at Baelor, right? So right because it's interesting to think about realistically the real reason they were locked up is because of their claim Yeah, yeah exactly for sure lock pretty Targaryens up all fucking day long But that's not gonna stop you from fucking them that actually makes it easier to go. Yeah, just putting that out there They're in one room if Baelor really if B If Baylor really never wanted to see his sisters ever again, he would have married them off to guys on the other end of Westeros who sent them to the Faith in Oldtown. Exactly.

But he doesn't. He keeps them in a place where they can't be a threat to Viserys' claim. I don't know. It's a little interesting. Yeah, I haven't really thought of it as like a Viserys play I mean if anything I do think Baylor was absolutely also part of it as well. That's why he tries to Boy King. Yeah It's a little both. It wasn't just Viserys. It was both right? Prophecy. These two definitely. Yeah Benefited the most from it. But yeah It was a team effort, you know. Mommy issues, not even lunch. I did like what you said though, also about like Circe and Tyrion being forced to compete. They're just competing for who's on bottom.

Yeah, for scraps. Not at the bottom. It's straight up some Roman and Kendall shit. The carrion, if you will. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. The scraps. Isn't that so terrible? I'd eat Maddie's scraps. Um. Questions? Thank you. Okay. Maddie's a great cook. Oh, I'm like, what do you mean? The scraps she's being given or the scraps she's making? I just

wanted to make sure I understood this right. Thank you. Maddie is a fantastic cook. I would eat Maddie's scraps. I would eat anything she makes. I think wanted to make sure I understood this right. Thank you. LWX I think Maddie is a fantastic cook. I would eat Maddie's scraps. I think Maddie understands what I meant. LSG If you ever get the chance, dear listeners, to have Carbonara, if Maddie's in front of you offering you Carbonara, I want you to take that chance. I want you to say yes. Just do it. Yeah. LSG Wow. Thank you. LSG You're welcome. Cersei insists that Tommen will

forgive the Sparrows once they return home, but the man points out they've lost their homes. Westeros is suffering. It's broken. It's on fire. It's ravaged. He's traveled village to village, performing marriages and newborns in those same villages that he did those things in. Gone. Fucking gone. He brings up the hound's crimes at Saltpans. False. And Cersei retorts she can't be held accountable for every man who served her house, arguing Sandor is a brute who was dismissed and now fights for Beric Dondarrion, not King Tommen. The man reminds her that Jaehaerys swore the Iron Throne would protect the Faith, and Cersei,

unaware of those actions, agrees but notes, Tommen's not anointed yet. The sparrow replies, the time is not yet ripe, and begins to give her another history lesson. I mean, I have a dumb thing to say of like when you're talking about held accountable, it's like thinking, she's just a girl in love. She can't be held responsible for her actions. Yeah, she's just a 35 year old girl. In love. Maybe. Or not. Anyways. The realm is full of kings. For the faith to exalt one above the rest, we must be certain. Three hundred years ago, when Aegon the Dragon landed beneath this very hill, the High Septon

locked himself within the starry sept of Oldtown and prayed for seven days and seven nights, taking no nourishment but bread and water. When he emerged, he announced the Faith would not oppose Aegon and his sisters, for the Crown had lifted up her lamp to show him what lay ahead. If Oldtown took up arms against the dragon, Oldtown would burn, and the Hightower and the Citadel and the Starry Sept would be cast down and destroyed. Lord High Tower was a godly man. When he heard the prophecy, he kept his strength at home and opened the city gates to Aegon

when he came, and his High Holiness anointed the Conqueror with seven oils. I must do as he did three hundred years ago. I must pray and fast. for seven days and seven nights for as long as need be Well, the High Sparrow here is explicitly declaring his decision to kind of undo the Targaryen monarchy once again Changing the nature of the relationship between church and state It took the faith time and patience to accept Aegon I, at least on paper. It definitely wasn't just like Lord Hightower telling this guy, who was probably his cousin,

that if you don't encourage us to bend the knee to him, Old Town is going to get turned into former town. But the High Sparrow is trying to reestablish this at least imagined relationship between Aegon and the Faith, and it's a relationship that Aegon sucked to by dating himself from this moment on. So Heisperer was trying to sort of, again, reverse the wheels here. Absolutely. It is really interesting in how that evolves as well. There's an aspect of the I'm gonna fast for seven days and seven nights that feels kind of hunger strike-ish

to me, which is usually used as a form of political protest, usually by prisoners. And I don't think it's actually that, because clearly the High Sparrow is playing with who has power here and who doesn't, right? Not a political prisoner, if anything, is holding many of the cards in this situation. But it is interesting. And also it's giving, like, you know, telling people, I'm gonna give you the answer, I'm gonna give you this this deliverable when I give it to you. And the language here, though, regarding the faith in Old Town, I just want to

call out it's almost exactly the same. It's written almost exactly the same in Fire and Blood. It's just George repurposing his notes in one and the other. I'll read aloud what it says in Fire and Blood. It just says, On the seventh day the crone had lifted up her golden lamp to show him the path ahead. If Oldtown took up arms against Aegon the dragon, his holiness saw. The city would surely burn, and the Hightower and the Citadel and the Starry Sept would be cast down and destroyed. That's like literally, practically verbatim what's in A Feast for Crows. So funny that it's just in both. Oh I love the way that he puts that. That's so funny that he's crossed it. Well that's something

good to look at for the future, right? It's interesting though because like if you take like the sort of in-world explanation here, that implies that whatever historical source that probably Gil Bane is ripping from, like the High Sparrow is able to quote history like verb for verb, right? So he's, he's, he's, it's good not to underestimate this guy. He knows what he's talking about, right? Yeah. And does that mean he's literate or does that mean he's really good at like oral tradition? Unsure. He's probably literate. But um- JG Yeah, most Sceptons would probably be literate,

so I think he's probably literate. STACEY It is really interesting. STACEY Well, and with that, it's really fun. My favorite exercise in Fire and Blood especially is probably reading things that are like, Agen did X, and you can see where it might be referring to Aon VI coming to Westeros and things he might do and the things the Faith might do. But there's also something in this that, especially when speaking about the dragons and speaking about how the contract that was made obviously heavily required the dragons for that contract to stay solid. The threat is the dragons, the threat is a checkmate,

the threat is that if the Faith moves they get burnt. If the Targaryens move, the Faith attacks. So how do we fix that? Well, it's a contract between them that they sign with blood and fire. And Cersei doesn't have that. And we're looking at Westeros as a country that was set up after conquest to really basically rely on dragons, right? Like, the entire social contract of the country was set up with the idea of relying on Targaryens having dragons and ruling the country via that power. So now we're sitting in a world where there are no dragons asterisk yet in Westeros. How does Cersei get around these issues with having no dragons and potentially not really having the best decision-making skills right

now due to grief and general everything? So how does Cersei fix this? I'm not going to have to hand it to D&D, you don't have to hand anything to those motherfuckers, but I kind of see a world in where Cersei blowing up the sept could happen here. I mean, that's her version of having dragon fire, right? Control, power. Yeah, and there's been a lot of association between wildfire and dragon fire, right, with like Arian drinking it. Yes. But I will say, in fairness to, not to Cersei, the opposite of in fairness to Cersei, Westeros was ruled for longer without dragons than it was ruled with dragons as like a singular entity. And like, I think it is like, dragons would be really useful

right now when there's like a general crisis period and like problems with legitimacy. But like, if there was if Taiwan was better, you know, if Robert was a better king, all this other stuff, if Ares was better, like this could have been avoided. But this is just like the churn of like, 50 years of political problems at the center, finally boiling up from below. And there's like, it's gonna happen, you know Well, yeah, and that's the point like the last century is not that person right the last century This is not the person no dragons and now they've just had interesting misrule pop-up sense, right? Well speaking of punching, huh all the way from the beginning

Seriously wants to slap him, to imprison him, to starve the Most-Evout now. I guess he's not the Most-Evout, I don't know the high sparer basically, but instead reminds him that Tommen is the only king defending the Holy Faith and he will end the outrages being taken against those who worship the Seven. But Tommen needs swords for war, Circe says, so instead she decides to let the Faith defend itself. She agrees to undo King Maegor's law, that the Faith lay its swords down.

Alright, Maddie. What did she care what Maegor the Cruel had decreed three hundred years ago? Instead of taking the swords out of the hands of the Faith, he should have used them for his own ends." She pointed to where the warrior stood above his altar of red marble. What is that that he holds? A sword. Has he forgotten how to use it? Mago's laws. Could be undone.

I don't know what I channeled there, but I'm sorry. I panicked. It was good. Thank you, thank you. On a meta level, this is probably I think when George started writing all these notes, I think about that we eventually get in the world of Ice and Fire and in Fire and Blood. He probably wrote all these to flesh them out specifically for these scenes, which I think is why you have like in very quick succession that stuff about Aegon and the Faith and being crowned by them and quickly followed by all this Maegor stuff. I think that's when he

was like, hmm, but how did it really work? LS Oh, interesting. Yeah, absolutely. And so, the Faith Militant is reborn with the Sparrow and Cersei, the blessed orders of sword and star, and the High Sparrow chooses to forgive the Lannister's debts. The High Sparrow will anoint Tommen, and his little sparrows will defend the land. The High Septon made a steeple of his hands and raised his eyes to heaven. Let the wicked tremble! Do you hear that, Lord Stannis? Cersei could not help but smile. Even her Lord Father could have done no better.

Hmm. Yeah, you know, back to being pro-Cersei. I don't know if she's really wrong here. I don't know if Tywin could have crushed the Sparrows without relying even more on the Tyrells. And I think he would have had similar class biases against the High Sparrow's abilities. The problem is, Tywin is not a perfect ruler, obviously. Cersei really doesn't get nothing out of this deal.

She gets the debt to the Faith relieved for this, which if she plays right, she doesn't. But if she did, she could use that against her other creditors in Braavos and maybe reduce the Crown's reliance on Lannister finances, but she just cannot recognize that she's playing with fire here. The High Sparrow is not bound by the incentive structures of Westerosi nobility, and his people want revenge. And it's kind of funny to think that Stannis should be afraid of the Faith rising against him.

Like, yeah, that's a major concern for him and the northern mountain clans. Like, they do not care about this at all. Yeah, I really like the point that I mean, like, this was a movement that was ongoing while Tywin was alive. He just had the great fortune of dying before it became his problem. And so Cersei was on a glass cliff. STACEY I feel like every king was going to have this issue except for Aegon VI, right, who is already set up potentially with the Faith. And that's really the sadder part, is like whatever happens here, it clears the playing field for Aegon.

He walks into it so fucking easy. That's what's so interesting, is everything Cersei is doing is setting it up so king's landing is so easy to be taken by Aegon. And so that Daenerys' life is gonna be fucking hell to take it back. Every single thing Cersei is doing, she'd burn in that ladder. She's like, let me just pull this up after myself real quick, and I respect that. Well, in Illyrio and Vrys' ideal plans, it does not go shit for Daenerys because she and Aegon are together. G. Right. But we're past that point now.

S. Yeah, they don't know that yet. They don't know that yet. G. Also loved this line, every godly man in the Seven Kingdoms would know him to be our true and rightful lord, and it really goes well with the Greyjoy chapters and when men see his sails they pray. Godliness. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Pray harder. When men see his sails they pray. Oh no. So coming back to like Varius and Illyrio and stuff, I think we're seeing here that

the High Sparrow does very much understand the answer to Varius' riddle about power. Like, he didn't want the gold. That was just like a pretense. He's like, I don't know. It was a play as part of the negotiations, right? He doesn't really care about it. And there's a part of me that's very cynical that wonders, did he even really want the septs protected? And I think to some extent obviously yes, right? He cares about it, but there's a part of it in which it's just a bargaining chip for these negotiations, because again, like if the sword itself and the person wielding it is the one who truly has power, and I think this is something that Maddie has like beautifully laid out throughout this episode and showing like the shift in power going on here. The sparrows don't want to

rely on the crown to be able to call up other swordsmen who are also technically the ones who actually have power. They're not relying on the gold for the power. Rather, it is the ability they are creating their own means for power by putting swords in their own hands. And gold is just another means to get the supplies, right? With weapons, you can threaten anyone into giving to you the supplies you need. CB 06. Exactly. S What a gentleman to the Hall of Lamps, and Lady Merryweather and her celebrate the win as they head back. Cersei explains the history of the warrior sons—see, she remembered, she just needed a second, she knows it—who gave up their lands and gold to serve his high holiness,

like the High Septon didn't tell us all this, and wore rainbow cloaks and inlaid silver armor over hair shirts, and the poor fellows, who were humbler and more numerous, begging brothers with axes. shirts and the poor fellows who were humbler and more numerous, beckoning brothers with axes. Teyna immediately understands. These men would rid the land of enemies like Stannis and his red witch. Yeah, that's really interesting to me. I'm curious as to what Teyna thinks about R'hllor. Like, certainly they are very big and controversial presence in places like Mir and the other free cities, but yeah, so maybe she does like kind of understand like, oh, this is like how you enter a religious war here in Westeros. But yeah, either way, Tana is going to encourage Cersei to take a bold move like this, even if she doesn't

fully understand the ramifications of it. Yeah. It's kind of like, remember in the show when Joffrey got his little like baby boner about Margaery helping him with the crossbow? That's Tiana and Cersei. Like right there, like, oh, it's so powerful when you blow things up, Cersei, your grace, Cersei one, as she's about to say. And it's interesting because earlier, there's that great blind spot on Jaehaerys, right? Like that's the only part of the history that she doesn't actually remember. She remembers Maegor, she remembers all this stuff, but she doesn't remember Jaehaerys, she says in this

chapter. And she like says, sure, yeah, of course I remember it. And the compromises that come from Jaehaerys and what he made or whatever and getting that doctrine with the faith of exceptionalism She didn't do a doctrine of exceptionalism. There is no exceptionalism for her and her family and she is not protected She should have used this moment to protect it somehow Maybe not called out the incest but I don't know She definitely should have gotten a better deal than that right than just the money. money. Yeah. It's still a good deal, to your point, but... I wonder if George just hadn't written that part yet. He's like, seriously, he doesn't remember it, and I fucking don't either. Maybe he just forgot. Maybe he forgot too.

Yeah, I think he liked to- Who's Among Us hasn't forgotten significant chunks of fire and blood. Maybe, but it does feel significant that that's the one she didn't remember. L- I think he even fleshed it out more later and was like, I just don't feel like coming up with this right now for this chapter and I'll come back to it later on as a writing exercise, which he did. S- Sure, okay. L- Yeah.

I don't know. That's what I'm thinking. S- I just think that it's significant for what's going to be her downfall with the Faith. L- Oh, absolutely. J- Oh, for sure. No, it definitely is. Yeah, yeah.

Incest, I mean. Yeah. Whatever. Cersei suggests a flag in the Hippocrates to get them back home. Hippocrates? I don't know. And they are triumphant in celebratory, and Teyna cheers to Cersei, the first of her name. Cersei the first, everyone.

I did make Hippocrates for this episode using a 14th century recipe. And so I will also give some cheers to Cersei the first of her name, my queen. Every time someone says Cersei the first of her name, you have to down your drink, Maddie. The whole of it? Yeah, she's doing it. Exactly. This bitch is getting cloyed. Exactly. This bitch is getting Chloe'd. Maddy and I recently participated in a very fun day where we drank every time Cersei got

her wine poured in black water. She told someone to drink. Even when it was cut in between scenes and you didn't see her drink, we drank then. That one was thanks to Sanrixian. That was not our choice. Yeah, thanks to Sanrixian. That was not our choice. Thanks to Sanrixian for that. So recently we participated in a Blackwater power hour together. So this feels like a different power hour. Indeed. Indeed. Power two hours. At the base of Aegon's Hill, Cersei finds Margaery and her cousins returning from a ride, showing off their fresh flowers and all their admirers, drinking shooters, with Loras watching over them. Cersei believes Loras spends

way too much time with them, and Tommen comes home talking often about his gallant actions. Margaery greets them, claiming, We were picking autumn flowers in the Kingswood. Which Cersei already knows because she keeps a very close watch on Lady Margaery and her public outings, praying at the sept, hawking, giving alms to the small folk who fawn over her. If Margaery were in control, Tommen would be doing these horrible activities too, Cersei thinks. Cersei only lets him go once in a while to allow Osney to get time with Margaery.

I just realized, does Loras just spend a lot of time with them because that's his fucking job as a Kingsguard? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like that's just literally his job. Like he's obviously her protector, right? Yeah. And if Tommen is there with them, do you not want the Kingsguard there? Like that's just his job. But who protects Lady Margaery from Loras Tyrell is my question. From Sir Loras. Loras Tyrell! Thanks Lady Tana. I will say, like, random thought. I don't know if you guys think this or not. This is just a random, random stray thought. Margaery is a Princess Diana character? Is that what's going on here? Like Like with all her being beloved

and hanging out and I don't know. A little bit. That was big during- The royal family wants to murder her. Exactly. That was big during the time that this was the first iterations of these, like the first few books were being written. Anyways. Yeah, absolutely. Tommen argues that he should meet the commoners, claiming that they would love

him. I would love you, Tommen. But Circe reminds him of the riot when Marcella left for Dorne, which resulted in Asceptin's death. Alright, point. These discussions only make Tommen sulky, which Circe suspects is Margaery's aim. She reflects that Joffrey would have seen through Margaery's schemes But Tommen is more naive seriously connects the Tyrell's plots including marrying Willis Asanza realizing

They're all conspiring together even having helped Tyrion now. Oh She's so close to getting it She's so close to figuring it out But she just hates Tyrion so much that she can't realize what happened with Joffrey and the Tyrells. LBGTLG She's so blinded by it. JGTLG Tywin screwing her over from beyond the grave. LBGTLG Incredible. Margaery suggests that Cersei should

have joined them in the beauty of the Kingswood, but Cersei's like, I don't have time for that because I have a kingdom to rule. And Margaery's like, what about the other six? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And she offers to bear those burdens for Cersei, and that maybe that would quell any rumors of rivalry between the two. Cersei insists, I've never seen you as a rival, darling. Ha ha ha ha. I got him. But Margaery brushes that off and invites Cersei and Tommen to please join them next time. Yeah.

So a couple things here. I like this line where they're describing the trees are gowned in gold and red and orange. And obviously that's just the time of year, that's just autumn, which is the season now for many people. And also I'm gonna say it sounds like the colors of fire and I find the idea of like the trees being on fire just a little interesting and yeah especially I mean A with the R'hllor stuff going up north but also B dragons plant no trees. And that's it. That's it. I'll let you all like chew on that. But also, I don't know. I just think it's interesting. Like Cersei thinks that Margaery doesn't know that she's been cut. I think Margaery fucking

knows that was an insult, but she knows don't give them the satisfaction of knowing that you were hurt, of knowing that you heard it. And especially, like, she knows she's been cut, because the Tyrells have been making little cuts at Cersei this whole time. Margaery just doesn't show the weakness, and I also think there's something kind of fun here with Ser Talid showing them how to fight with the staff, and it's called out, this is the way that the smallfolk do. Seems like it might be a good thing for people to brush up on in preparation for potentially fighting against a lot of small folk who are taking arms. Yeah. That's actually a really good point. I love it too because like you said, Marjorie has learned to shove all that down and cover that up and play the game.

And that's why it's so awesome the next time we come back to the Sept and she's visiting Marjorie and Marjorie calls her out and she's like, you vile scheming bitch, because Margaery's had to keep her fucking mouth shut this entire time and just take every little barb, every cut. Oh, I don't see you as a rival. Oof. Oof. I love it. Fight. The girls are fighting. Cersei recalls her late husband Robert's love for the forest, noting, beauty can be deadly, you know? He died there. I think it's her beauty that did that, but you know, whatever. She reflects on how Robert would often invite her to come hunting, but she would use that time to be with Jamie. Marjorie acknowledges Cersi's concern, but reassures her that

Loris keeps them protected. I love this little passage. I think just the language of the light and so much about this, I really love. I love all of her very bittersweet thoughts about Jaime and Joffrey and giving birth to Joffrey last chapter when she was talking about how she never felt such serenity and happiness. I think that it's an interesting aspect of her looking back to this time where she felt happy and like she could have it all. Golden days and silver nights, it was a dangerous dance they danced to be sure. Eyes and ears were everywhere within the Red Keep, and one could never be certain when Robert would return. Somehow the peril had only served to make their times together that much more thrilling.

Yeah, your adrenaline does make the sex better. Like fucking in public, you know? People get obsessed with that because it's like a whole thing. You get that little urge you just want to get caught. Makes it sexier. Yeah, didn't they do it right next to Robert once? Yeah, when he was passed out drunk. Yeah, when he was passed out drunk. Yeah. Probably many times. Cersei's such a freak. I love it. Yeah, she's a freak. Good for her. Fuck yeah. Good for her. You said something about Joffrey and how she's like kind of, you know,

lionizing those times. Um. That. That. It's kind of, I guess she's kind of Leona-ing him. Yeah. You know? Absolutely. Kind kinda stealing the shit out of those times. I remember her having a bad time when he was alive. You know, you know what it makes me think of? It makes me think of Livia's soprano, right? Who always says about her husband, Johnny, that like, Oh, he was a saint. Yep.

Yeah. Whenever he's brought up. Like, Cersei feels that way about Joffrey. And Tony says in the soprano's like, When he was alive, that was not the case He was not a saint. He was the devil. That's a great point.

Yeah. Many people are saying this about Joffrey. Interesting. Yeah. So that's what it reminds me of. Joffrey the Good. Well, finally Cersei thinks of what Tana told her earlier of Loras and Margaery in a laugh burst from her lips. Margaery asks why she laughs so prettily and if they can share the jest and uh play us out Maddy. You will, the queen said. I promise

you will. Cersei maybe you shouldn't villain monologue in a single line like that it's gonna give away your plot. She's probably got half a flag and a hippocast by that point so... And where are you? Update for the crowd? This is only glass number two but you made me chug the last one so I'm kind of feeling it. I'm gonna be real, I've definitely just cackled out of nowhere with like interior thoughts when I'm drunk enough and like on the street by myself in front of people. It definitely happens. You do that. Do I? You've seen me. Oh, that's great. Yeah, that's like your thing.

I'm a consistent character, I think. I'll never forget you at your bus stop just cackling as you ditched all your friends. Your cousins. My cousins. Yeah. Cackling. I love it. I love that Cersei goes full Evil Queen in a lot of ways in this chapter, whether it's killing all the small folk slash peasants, how she wishes she could punch the high septet in the face, her little clever drunken UL. I love it. Oh, she's so hot.

She's everything to me. She's an icon and I'm having a really good time with her. She's the queen in a Snow White, I guess. She is very evil queen in this, yeah. Margaery is Snow White and is this like, I don't know, is this like the Huntsman or the, should I be looking at them as the Huntsman? I don't know. She sends a million Huntsmen. She's like, kettle blacks. The faith. Anything. Fucking anything.

STACEY I mean, you have that with Sansa in the first books, so now you have it with Margaery. It's consistent. VB And her dwarf brother, yeah. STACEY Yeah, that's true. VB There's only one of them. STACEY That's true, actually. Good call. VB And all the other dead ones, like, their heads just keep rolling up in her room. Off with your head! Well, Tyrion's dead.

Any last words for us, Maddie? Honestly, no. I feel like me doing Cersei takes it away. There's nothing that I could say that Cersei hasn't- what? He said you did her I Wish but unfortunately I haven't but it was so fun to be on here with you too This has been like a long time coming, you know, I think we talked about 2020 or 2019 2020 Maybe maybe did talk about in 2020 Yeah Like the world the world the podcast life Cersei was even very different back then.

That's true. Honestly, probably. Wow. Yeah, this is an incredible episode. I'm really glad you're here. Thank you for giving us all this historical context. Thanks for having me on. This is beautiful. Thanks for having me. You're like Cersei, history nerd. Exactly. There you go. She's just like her for real. For real. I am. I am just like her for real. Actually I'm not in the most important way, but we won't get into that. And which way is that? Nevermind. Nevermind. We don't have time for that one. But another time we'll have to have you back to explain that one? Question mark? We don't know. No one knows. You don't need to have me back to explain that one. If you want me to talk about the Catholic Church again, I can do that. But that, we'll leave that for the listeners at home to decide. Thank you again, Maddie. It was great to have you on and great to get a lesson in history and Catholicism.

We will be back next week with our friend Rohan to get deeper into Tyena and Cersei. Get it? Get deeper into Tyena like her vagina. And we got it. Yeah. Are we thinking about that? All night. We'll be back next week with that. Eliana, where can they find us online? You can find us at twitter.com slash girls gone canon that's C- that's C-A-N-O-N, or maybe you have an email. A lot of people have been sending emails. You might have one too, that we might read alone, at girlsgoncanon.gmail.com. And our friends and patrons are the reason we do this podcast without ads every single week. They allow us to put out these episodes independently and that fucks. In my opinion, please listen to them tell you where you can find the podcast.

You can catch Girls Gone Cannon on any of the following streamers. On Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Spotify, Overcast, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Audible, and Amazon Podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the thunder tier above, you have access to a Discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the Discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, Fashion Hour, there are multiple channels for historic materials, A Song of Ice and Fire, there's a Pet channel, which I think is probably the most important channel

of all. Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community, it's a lot of fun, and you won't regret it. And you can also check us out at patreon.com slash girls gone canon, as they said, lots of perks over there, c-a-n-o-n, and some cool stuff coming out soon, I'm sure. Lots of stuff to look forward to there. Patreon's doing a lot of cool rollouts this year, so I'm excited to start playing with them. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe.

And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thank you very much to our other- oh, are we like a holy trinity now? Oh. Oh yeah, we are the holy trinity. Alright, who's everyone's close? Maiden Mother Crone. You're Crone. Oh. I'm just kidding.

Oh. Are we Maiden Mother and Crone? I guess- I'm Mother Crone. You're Crone. Oh. I'm just kidding. Oh. Are we Maiden Mother and Crone? Yeah, that's us. I guess. I'm obviously Crone. Yeah, and I'm Maiden because I'm so young, but I'll let you be Maiden because you might be even younger. You're like, what, 14, Maddie? Okay.

I thought... Well, I can be Mother and Chloe can be Maiden, though. Wow. Just to make her feel better. Because of my youth. I thought we were talking about the other Holy Trinity. Oh yeah, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Who gets to be the Holy Spirit? I call the Holy Spirit.

You made Mother Crohn's way better than that. Way better. Am I the Father? Yes, you are the Daddy. So now I feel like... We'll be back. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye, everybody. You are the daddy.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.