Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 238 — AFFC Cersei IX

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Whether this diva is up or down, one thing's for sure: The Blue Bard won't be playing in any of this diva's backing tracks. --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 237, Cersei Nine in a Feast for Crows. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And Cersei Nine just doesn't have the same ring to it as Cersei Eight, unfortunately. Yeah, because you ate, I ate, Cersei Eight. It was a great chapter. A great chapter.

A great chapter. But you know what? This is the penultimate. This is, this one's a little tense. Yeah. It's also a good chapter. It's just like, I can't make a pun as easily out of Cersei nine, unless I'm like Cersei nine, like, you know, Cersei no, like dad no. And there's a lot of like Cersei no things this chapter.

So what you're saying is you preferred Cersei 7 because 7-8-9? Yes, exactly. Um, well, this is our penultimate A Song of Ice and Fire POV episode of the year. Our second to last Aeswaf POV episode will be ending the Aeswaf POV podcast this year with Cersei 10 in a feast for crows and we will return in the new year with Cersei in a dance with dragons and two fucking amazing guests to start us off. We'll reveal that very soon, very soon. We won't be gone for the year, though. We won't. We won't. We are going to release for you the first episode of Chloe

and My Passion Project, The Hunger Games. And honestly, it's a gift. All right. It is a gift. We are a gift to the world. This is a gift from not just us, but our patrons, right? We are releasing this for patrons only in the stranger tier and above. And they are, I've really enjoyed them so far. We've gotten deep, we've gotten dark, we've gotten gritty, we've gotten silly, we've done all the things we do.

But with Suzanne Collins's The Hunger Games novels, we'll be starting Catching Fire in probably 2025 would be my guess, and getting through the rest of the novels. I'm gonna get you to the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I swear it, I swear it, it's gonna happen. I do want to, I think I'm gonna try to read it soon because on the plane, the movie was actually available a couple of times, but I was like,

I can't watch the movie yet because I have to read the book first, you know? So I just got like actually excited, like I felt it in my bones. I'm like, she's gonna do it. I was like, I could I could have watched it if I had read it already, but I haven't. So I was like, damn it, damn it, damn it. Well, the pressure's on since you're gallivanting across the universe right now. The pressure is on, Eliana. Read the book. Read the book.

I've never read a book in my life. We don't even know how to read. I don't know how to read. So, speaking of not knowing how to read, month's Patreon episode, I have to learn how to read first before we can announce whatever it's gonna be. You can expect something interesting, patrons of The Stranger Tearing Above, something interesting in your inbox by the end of December. Yeah, and who knows, maybe I'll never learn how to read and it's going to just be like a TV

show or something, which is very possible. Kind of why I come back every week. What if this is the week that she did it? What if this is it? This is the week she learned. Yes. So again, available for patrons in the stranger tier and above $5 and up. But if you're a patron in the $10 Tier and above, you know, that, that only

requires talking, right? That's, that's more access to the Discord where you get once a month access to brunch slash happy hour, brappy hour. And this month it's a, it's towards the end of the year. It's going to be a time of reflection. Oh my god, Saturday December 28th at 2 p.m. Come hang out with us. We'll be reflecting, as Eliana just said. I'm going to be reflecting on the bullshit you're saying right now,

like the whole episode. What? We'll be reflecting. We'll be very demure. We'll be very peaceful, you know, self-caring. Yeah, I probably, hopefully, self-caring. Yeah, I probably, hopefully, I don't know. Probably. Grappi hour's kind of fun, actually. The last few have been a delight. Not just like we played some Jackbox games last month, but also it's just been a delight.

Everybody, it's been a great mix of personalities lately. Yeah. I think I was like, what, baking two things or maybe just one thing. I don't know, last Grappi hour. I don't remember if I was like, what, baking two things? Or maybe just one thing? I don't know, last crappy hour? I don't remember if I was doing two things. I'm in my sourdough era, as you all know. You showed us, too! You showed us your starter, and we saw the mother plant. The alien starter mother of your sourdough. Yes, indeed. And then, uh...

You were baking up a storm. Indeed. And then the cinnamon rolls I had to start all over. Cause... Yeah, I think I was baking bread at that time too, because... I was preheating the oven, and then it got too hot, and then it killed the dough that I was using for cinnamon rolls. Anyways. Wrappy Hour is all about celebrating the wins and the losses together is what we're trying to tell you. The winds of winter. So come hang out. The winds of winter. Look under your chair. We've got a handful of emails out there and comments. We're gonna come back to them next

week. This week we really want to lock in on Cersei9, on Cersei 789. We're going to lock in this week, so no emails or tweets of note. There were tons of great messages and comments in the Discord, notably from Professor Rowan, who we've heard from recently on the podcast, but we'll bring him to you next week. Stay tuned. Indeed, yes. We are locked in this episode because Cersei has locked up quite a few people. Oh, Jesus Christ. Let's talk about our lightning round. You know how it goes. Here's what we missed between Cersei VIII and Cersei IX in a feast for crows.

Brienne VIII. Oh, sorry, Brienne 8. Oh sorry, Brienne 7. No chance, no choice. Jamie 6. Jamie attempts to bring peace to the Riverlands. Peace is in finger quotes, by the way. Alright this is Chloe's beautiful poetry here to describe Cersei 9 for you. Diva up. Diva has never been more up. Diva on top of the world. Nothing could bring her down. Guys, nothing. She's winning. They hate to see a girl boss winning. Was there a tune to this? Like, is

there like a different way that should have been presented, Chloe? No, I really love your interpretation. That was beautiful. Thank you. What a reading. My slam poetry. Yeah, you did slam poetry. And you know, notably those who have done slam poetry are the coolest people in the entire land.

So. It was the first time for everyone. And for me, it was here with all of you. Lucky my first time was age 15 and I'll never get that scar off of me. I just don't think I like had to recite poems and stuff especially like for classes but I just don't think I have it in me like I don't think I have the umph and now that I've said umph like that definitely cements that I don't have it in me to do slam poetry. I love poetry, but I cannot slam it. STACEY Oh, it's so, you know, some people are born with it, some aren't. It's not your fault.

EMILY Yeah, I agree. It could still be my fault, but yeah. Anyways. STACEY I want to open up with, you know, after this chapter is a three chapter, like in a row, goldmine. We have Cersei 9, Princess in the Tower, Alayne 2, Brienne 8, and I love that there's so many fever dreams and revenge and people being trapped as a theme. Cersei's very much kind of in a corner actually for a lot of her plot going forward from this moment, but she's definitely fighting her way out, right? You have Sansa in the Veil, you have Aryan who will not just be the princess in the tower, right?

She tries her best in that chapter to not be that. And Brienne VIII who is about to be in a noose. So many just like our divas are about to be down slash down slash etc. Really interesting run though. I would like us all to reflect on that. You know, reflect, reflect. Reflect. That's this episode's theme where we reflect and Circe just does not. She does not reflect upon her actions. Hey, if she looks back, she is lost. Okay.

For real. For real. And yeah, absolutely. I love what you've pointed out here. She kind of does. I mean, it's interesting. She does at least try to get out of this little trap she's in, but unfortunately, closes the trap, steps into it even harder. Uh, yeah, the problem is that the trap is like the entire social political

contract of Hing's Landing, right? Like if you break that contract, the pit of snakes opens up and eats you alive. We've seen it happen, folks. We've seen it happen. Indeed. So we open this chapter with Cersei confronting Maester Pycelle, who looks even older than usual, over the death of Giles Rosby and what she calls Pycelle's failure to treat Giles. Tyena and Osmund Kettleblack are there, and they kind of pile on Pycelle as well and agree and are like, yeah, you're right, queen. Yeah, queen, go off. And Cersei accuses him of failing in other matters, including the deaths of Joffrey,

Robert, and Jon Arryn. She questions his loyalty, particularly his role, in opening the gates to Tywin back during the rebellion. Cersei mocks him for his ties to Queen Margaery, accuses him of being a spy for her, even implying he might be involved with her romantically. Pycelle denies everything, claiming loyalty to Tommen, and his oaths prevent him from revealing anything about Margaery, though he slips about the moon tea that he's delivering to her, though of course Cersei hears what she wants to hear, and we the audience miss

what he's about to actually say. Yeah. So there's kind of a lot of fun things going on in this opening passage one in which Cersei insists that she is the queen not Margaery like interesting based on your father's words about a No king, no true king. She'll have to say I'm the king and I've butchered that line Whatever and then also as she winds up Pycelle thinking the fruit is ripe and how that goes along with some of the stuff As you said in the Aryan chapters Technically the Aryan chapters, technically the Aryan chapters,

whatever. Anyways, I wonder if this passage in another world, when feast and dance were still one book or imagined as such, would have been put alongside some of the Barbary dust in discussions with Theon and the Maceurs and their loyalties, especially as Pysel talks about like, at the end, right, he says he's always been loyal to House Lannister. He's saying like, I'm loyal to the crown and to the king, he goes to House Lannister, and I do think that is true, because she's like, where do your real loyalties lie if you would open the gates to Aerys?

And like, well, to you, to your house. And, you know, he even mentions helping Cersei with the Lord Arryn situation, and how he felt he was covering for her, which I mean, he kind of did, but turns out there was actually nothing to cover for in this one. Because again, in this one instance, Circe is innocent of crimes. But this passage in Circe to Pycelle as she just like winds him up and is like forcing him into this. It's literally epitome of Gaslight Gatekeep Girlboss. Actually Gaslight. This old man.

She is heavily practicing the gaslighting this chapter. It is up there. And I love kind of what you focused on in the Maesters, because this is like Feast obviously has all of this focal maester lore coming in from the prologue throughout and you even have it in Dance of Dragons like Theomore at White Harbor right like these are very maester focal books George is really trying to get us into the lore of the conclave and the Citadel and preparing us probably for Euron fucking destroying the Reach and all the the chapters with Sam we might get from the Citadel maybe you never know but

Pycelle oh gosh poor Pycelle he's been on really thin ice since the very beginning of this series like this man was just like fucked his way to the middle by doing nothing and now he's on thin ice. Dude, bruh, it's bad. We've had like more than 40 Grand Maesters ever since Aegon's reign, Aegon I. He started that. And removing a Grand Maester isn't necessarily new. Usually it's supposed to be done by the Conclave, but I mean, precedent was set back when Maegor executed, oh, like two to three of them in his reign. And Aegon too has Maester Gerardus fed to Sunfire, and in Davos, in Storm of Swords, I want to say Davos three, or yeah, four, we learn of a

Grand Maester who gets killed for his treason, Harith, no clue who he served, but who knows if George was just gardening or what, but it was there. And we've also learned recently like Pysal was actually the youngest maester they've ever hired at the time when they brought him in. Also came in after a bunch of them kept dying from being old as shit. He served a really long time so all of this waited, really interesting, especially when you think about Storm. Someday, you never know when, could be He's served a really long time, so all of this waited, really interesting, especially when you think about Storm. Someday, you never know when, could be soon, could be late, we'll get to Tyrion, where

the Conclave almost chooses a Tyrell Grand Maester, so Pycelle gets brought into the fold. Cersei's wilding out, but not necessarily for the wrong reasons. Like, Tyrion also saw that Pycelle was a piece of shit who would probably turn cloak to someone who was nicer to him, but also Pycelle's not really been treated good for a few books by the Lannisters. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's hard being like the family doctor slash Gary from V. Apparently it's so dangerous. Like-

Pysel stirring the tea. I don't know why they don't just make- print more money. Right, but also at the same time whispering in the earth, this is blah blah blah blah blah. This is- Literally. Like, that's his job. And he gets- I mean, actually it was pretty bad for Gary too, nevermind. Yeah. He gets basically killed. He's alive, but barely. Yeah.

Same deal. Same deal. Same deal. It's really clear to me this tea wasn't for Marjorie, by the way. I will bet you money it was for one of the cousins, whether Eleanor or Mega. I'm like, yeah, Mega and Mark Mollendor, baby, when? I ship it. Maybe both. I don't know. I so badly want to know who it's for. I mean, it's gotta be for these fucking cousins. Eleanor or Mega are both found to have broken

maiden heads, and also, I don't care about Margaery that much. It's no secret. I'm just like, I don't care for the Tyrells fully as my subjective favorite characters, and Margaery is kind of a non-character in the books, right? She starts to get a little personality in this. But I think it's clear that Margaery would be willing to ask the Grand Maester as the queen and pull her power to help her cousins. It's clear that she holds her family very much close to her and over others. She's very loyal to her family and also, oh it's so

painful to say this, she would be a good queen if she was given the full power to be a queen. She understands PR. She understands and has been kind of bred to know PR and how to successfully execute a PR plan. She was raised to be a good lady, so this is kind of her time to shine that Cersei obviously wouldn't let her have, doesn't want her to have, but she would do that for her cousins. Like, that's like 101. Yeah, I mean, she's protecting them, right? And a queen or a king should protect their people, including, I guess, their cousins. And I mean, as you said, I think she would be a good queen. She clearly has knowledge of other things like some naval strategy as we see during the the ironborn attacks, right? She has thoughts on that. She also I think seems more capable of

running a household or like putting on even events. So like later on Cersei's like, I want us to have boar for dinner, right? Without even taking into account, like, it kind of seems a little difficult to just go out there, find a wild boar, and hunt it, right? Like, I feel like Margaery would have taken those logistics into account and not been like, we can obviously just manifest a boar for dinner. It doesn't just show up. Yeah. They're called wild boar and one of them killed the king for a reason. I mean she goes hawking, right? She understands hunting to an extent.

True. And I mean she's trying to raise like, I mean she's also apparently maybe even the good mother considering that she is raising Cersei's son for him, aka her husband. Yeah. But- Teaching him the lessons that Cersei is very busy ruling a queendom and cannot teach him. Yeah, so anyway, Cersei dismisses the mention of Giles's board and plans to appoint someone else to take Rosby's lands.

Considering Orin Waters as a new heir, she pushes Pysel to alter Giles's final wishes and to give the land to Tommen, dismissing his argument about Jarl's board. After Pysel leaves, Taina comments on Margaery's risky actions with the moon tea. Tersi reflects on the dangers of a widow married to a child king, noting Margaery's appetites are something Tommen can't yet satisfy. Funny because as a widow herself of a king. Yeah.

Here with Rosby, coming back to what we've been chattering about on and off, in the words of Matt Smith's daemon, Renearer, it's a British accent version of Reneara. Renearer, it's just something accent version of Reneara. Renearer. It's just something he would say, you know, Matt Smith. Anyways, that one was for me. But she's taking it away from a woman who has a claim to it, right? Like, Stokeworth claim. True. The Stokeworth claim. So goodbye, Lollis's claim. She's taking it, giving it to Orane, which

interesting, since Orane is the bastard of Driftmark and does have a claim to Driftmark, because bastards these days are rising really high. Okay, if we're going to go for the bastard report, I can tell you from, you know, the front lines of Bastardy, we bastards are kicking ass. I mean not Jon Snow, he's dead, but You know. He's getting ass kicked but Yeah, he peaked too early. He peaked in like book three Well Cersei, I worry that will come back to get her ass when fleeing King's Landing.

Mm, that's a good point. Yeah, they'll remember all that. Plus, you know, Bronn obviously is not inclined to be like sympathetic to Cersei's cause, perhaps. I will say that her thinking, what if I just gifted like this to Oren? Oren has also accomplished nothing, you guys. He has literally done nothing yet. And it reminds me a little bit of Tytos, Lannister lavishing his lover with all those jewels

and bringing her to Casterly Rock and giving her all these things. The very thing that made him seem like a weak ruler and fool and that Tywin hated about his dad but I mean at least you know Tito's actually like it was actually sleeping with that woman I'm like Cersei you've gotten don't give this man a hold you know hit it first at least but anyway and Anyway. And it's too big of a reward. Tywin wouldn't give that big of a reward. He really wouldn't. Not for that.

It's too big. Not for doing nothing. For too little. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's literally done nothing except spend the crown's money and probably take it to go be a pirate. And be pretty, yeah. He's brilliant.

I mean, he's brilliant. Yeah, and be pretty. Yeah, I know. Real. So real. I mean, good for him. That's the point, like, spend government money because it's all corrupt. Like, we're about to watch the government do some torture, okay? Go be a pirate. Be gay, do crimes. Absolutely.

Cersei declares that Margaery has betrayed Tommen by taking a lover. It's high treason, punishable by death. Cersei and Osmund seem pretty celebratory about it all, but Tyene is like, well guys, don't forget about the Tyrell army at Storm's End and the other one at Maidenpool. Cersei is like, well shit, I am a little vexed about that. She knows she needs the Tyrells, at least until Stannis is defeated, but how does she get rid of Margaery without getting rid of Mace's support? Yeah, I think there's something, it's kind of, there's an irony here, right? And what Cersei actually thinks is that she needs Mace Tyrell, but she wants to get rid

of Margaery. And I'm like, oh, how funny. It just very much reinforces the idea that only the men are actually valuable, but the women are disposable which is curious right when you think about it because like Cersei's father died and that only created opportunities for everyone Like maybe we should just kill Mace. Oh, yeah, all these people with jobs. They never thought that they would have like a Jaws Ross would be who's now dead, but you know Well you know maybe he got I don't know maybe it went to his retirement fund who knows. Oraine Waters all these people with jobs they never thought they would have.

Yeah Harris Swift he's like I can't believe I've been kidnapped and given a job. For real. For real. It stands out to me that Tyena suggests, well he or she reminds Cersei very gently of the army that's outside. She's like, don't forget, he does have an army and it's in position right now that could come back and really bite us in the asshole. Also maybe in a meta way for all of us to think about.

Then also in a bit we get Tyena suggesting that maybe one of the cousins wasn't involved and to like go easy on her and maybe let her come, you know, speak against it and prove her innocence. And again, very Sansa with Cersei, right? Cersei has a grown-up Sansa at her side who's very, very quietly suggesting she pulls back the torture and pain and killing. And honestly, she's right. The story is a little more believable if one of them wasn't involved.

Yeah. Treason is treason, she says though, but they need something more substantial. So they need to catch her in the deed. But Tatum warns, okay, this is gonna be really hard because Margaery is never alone. And I love this line of, like she describes Margaery's ladies

as like her castle walls. She's always surrounded by her septas and her cousins. Yeah, it's a lot like what we've always chatted about when it comes to Sansa, right? And how she didn't have that. She didn't have that armor in the capital and it made her much easier to take. I mean, think of the day that Sansa and everyone else in the king's hand or in the hands tower all went down, right? Like that day in a game of thrones would have taken a lot longer to get to if you had

several other noble houses involved and unable to just like kill all the children right then and there. That's kind of what Cersei's dealing with here, right? Margaery is too well protected, too well defended, and ironically Cersei is accusing Margaery of all of these things throughout this chapter that she's the one doing. But she's the one that her strategy with all of this. It's very much going on the offensive and she hasn't done enough defensive stuff with her strategy. Not that any of this is very strategic at all.

So she's left herself so vulnerable. She's got actually, we see there's so many loose ends in this plan of hers. Too many moving parts. Well, and Tywin had a lot longer to kind of, like, architect and structure and create his, right? That's true. And she feels like she's very rushed to get control back ASAP and edge Margaery out, which she is. Like, the older Tommy gets, to be fair, the older he gets, like, the easier it is to control him because teenagers get boners. And he's already starting to rebel.

I do think this would be really interesting had we had a Tommen who was five years older. Five years older Tommen, this would have been amazing. Yeah, the wrestling over his agency, and he would have been 13, right? Which is know, agency, and he would have been of an, he would have been 13, right? Which is like, basically, the age in which he would have probably been able to reclaim his own power. So interesting stuff. At least starting to and have different regents that aren't his mother, yeah. I mean, I think

of the closest work, right? Aegon III and Viserys. Exactly. Exactly. That's what I think about in Fire and Blood during this time. Yet his Viserys is like interestingly also Margaery to an extent, you know? Or like when Marcella returned from the plot. Yeah, merged. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And if Marcella returns she can be Jaehaera. Rip. Oh, yeah, rip. Hmm. Hmm. Well, Cersei thinks aloud that maybe all of these innocents surrounding Margaery are in on the scheme as well. Okay. And she tells Tana that she and Orton will step with her

tonight and have roasted boar. And Orton is to arrange the singer because she's all like, we want music. And Tana, she's pretty good. She's very intuitive. She picks up immediately on what that means. I wouldn't have picked up on what that means. I'd be like, what do you mean you want music? You want me to like, should I perform for you? And also Kyber would need to come to dinner too. But all these plans that Circe has of like, oh, maybe all these other people are in on it too.

It reminds me of like what happened with Sarah all these other people are in on it too. It reminds me of like, what happened with Sarah Targaryen, right? Of, yeah, actually all these people were in on it too, and they were all like, I guess having sex, but also what if like, that, except that wasn't made up by Cersei, that allegedly really happened. Cersei's thing did not actually happen. Yeah. Interesting, right? Like she's Sarah Targaryen storytelling, but it's... fake. Maybe that's where she got the idea from, now that I think about it, because, you know, she is our resident historian, turns out. Oh, she has to know what happened then, let's be real.

She read that one a few times. I'm like, Cersei totally read a cautionary tale for girls. Yeah, she's like aspirational. Well, the kitchens have no wild boar on hand, so instead they butcher a castle sow, studded with cloves basted with honey and dried cherries, and they have baked apples with sharp white cheese too. Had to read that one, that sounds good. and dried cherries, and they have baked apples with sharp white cheese, too." Lady Tyena savored every bite. Not so Orton Merriweather, whose round face remained blotched and pale from broth to cheese, he drank heavily and kept stealing glances at the singer. Cersei brings up the need for a new treasurer after Lord Coffington's departure, suggesting

Harris for the role. Her main concern is persuading Orton to become Hand of the King, like his grandfather Owen once was to Aerys, despite Owen's ineffectiveness. Orton, younger and with a stronger, sexier wife, agrees to the position. Then Cersei changes the tune of the dinner and focuses on the blue bard. She notes his extravagant Tyroshi-style blue attire and rosewater scented hair. Nice subtle young griff nod again. We'll come back to this in just a moment. And also, Orton isn't stupid, right? And we see kind of the results of this in the next chapter, that Tyena is easily, quickly

out and whisked away, and there's something happening beneath the surface, whether conspiracy, whether they were just prepared to go. But he's not stupid because Cersei's really showing her truest self here, right? Like this is like, it's very intimately revealed what happens next, but like Orton just saw who she really is. He probably saw flashes of what his grandfather saw at court with Aerys. It's enough to send someone into exile, right? Yeah.

Oh yeah, that's true. I mean, it's kind of interesting that she's like, well, you did so good with Ares, or your grandfather did, I'm like, but we all know that wasn't the case. And I do think it's interesting that she's like, oh, his wife would actually be a better hand. And there's an extent to which Teyna could or would essentially be ruling his hand of the king through Orton that makes me think of, we've talked about this person before, but I forgot her name last time, Florence Fosseway,

who was an official Master of Coin back in the day, ruling through her husband. Well, not ruling, kinda. Well, and you have Sarala of Myr, and you have Misaria the White Worm. I think you have all these great characters that have gotten to rule as Hand, or as Hand, or as Second Hand. Ha ha ha. We do have two hands. As some of us. Yeah. Yes. Interesting. When the blue... Wow. Lots to learn today from Eliana. Many people do have two hands, Eliana. It's so true. We do. Both you and I.

The blue bard tells us his name. That his name is Watt. And Cersei mocks him about his relationship with Margaery, starts to egg him on, and he denies having one with her. And so then she smashes his loot in his face. She kind of pushes on Orton to participate as well. Orton fearfully questions if the blue bard seduced the queen, and Cersei's like, no, Margaery seduced him! The blue bard denies it again, and he screams, Mother, have mercy! This is hilarious.

She goes, I am not your mother. Cersei told him. Line of a century. Indeed, indeed. And even in the black cells, all they got from him were denials, prayers, and pleas for mercy. Before long, blood was streaming down his chin from all his broken teeth, and he wet his dark blue breeches three times over.

Yet still the man persisted in his lies. Yet he persisted." Um. Nevertheless, the blue bar persisted. Nevertheless, he persisted. So Cersei isn't the mother, which I mean, Cersei is mother but not the mother, I guess. And we know from later in this chapter, she's definitely not the maid, but also from previous chapters we know this.

Jaime thinks of Cersei as a stranger and we could definitely see that, but also I'm gonna throw this out there. What if she's not the mother and she's not the maid? She is in fact the crone, which is I think very telling within her storyline because it's like the thing that she fears and hates the most. And apparently part of it is because of Maggie the Frog and she's like, old people only lie to me. But also what if she hates old people just because she's like, they're ugly.

And part of, a little sneak peek from Rowan's Discord report this past week is you know we were discussing wither, Tyrion, and Cersei. If there was a world where they would have gotten along and Rowan was like I think like it's not really explicitly stated but Cersei just may have never liked Tyrion solely because Tyrion was born ugly and we see how much Cersei values beauty. So throwing it out there. Cersei, if you're not the mother and you're not the maid, time to think about where you are. Yeah, dude, I'm becoming the Crone in my late, you know, 32s. Yes, Cersei. I mean, I'm Cersei age.

My late 32. And I am the Crone, so. I'm not, so I can't believe... You're like, why am I a 13 year old on this podcast with a- It's like in Mindy Project, when Mindy's always like, well I am like a preteen, sir, how dare you. Yeah, exactly. Cersei asks Qyburn if they have the wrong singer because the blue bard is not relenting. Qyburn promises he'll sing by the end of the night and he cuts away the blue bard's clothing, naked but for his blue boots.

There's a line. The hair between his legs was brown. Cersei was amused to see. Tell us how you pleasured the little queen she commanded." So this is before we get into like the serious stuff, I want to say like when you use the word relented, it reminded me of a friend of yours and mine telling us about their baby and telling the baby, like, Harry, relent! I think about them sometimes. So that's it.

Incredible. Incredible. I was really... Something like drew me to this, to Circe's treatment of Watt here as a lowborn singer who dyes his hair and styles himself to look Tyroshi. Circe was born into wealth and beautiful golden blonde hair. Right? Like, I think we can just put that out there. She was born into wealth, she was born into golden blonde hair, and she contrasts so much with Watt,

who has to fake his way into this style and persona that he dyes his hair, which is just ordinary brown, to appeal to young and old noble ladies and make a name for himself and exploit that in order to find a position in a court to pay for his life. And for some, like Cersei Lannister, money and noble birth are things you're born into. She's amused when she dresses him down, that when it comes to his cock, when it comes to his skin, to his brown pubes, he's just a man. And it's interesting because I think of like the way Jaime focuses on Cersei's curly, beautiful pubes and vice versa in the story.

And when you dress down Watt in this way, not counting, you know, the nipple rip, different kind of dressing down, it's kind of foreboding in what awaits Cersei in Dance, right? Like she's dressing him down and she gets dressed down herself, though the punishment does not fit the crime. Different crime, different punishment. But also kind of brings to mind what is happening with Merillian, right? Who's haunting the Eerie, being tortured to lie. STACEY Yeah, that's a great parallel between what's happening to both of them. And Marillion, I also, I mean, I don't know that he necessarily wears the color blue,

but I associate him with that color, maybe because I think of the eerie as the color blue. And the sky blue of the eerie. Right, the blue is calling to him. Um, yeah, there's, there's a, an interesting, like, way that the power manifests between them. I think there are studies showing that when you give someone a little power, or make them act out power over someone else, it actually reduces the amount of empathy that they have for them. And you can definitely see that happening with Circe here, as well as I think that the way that she-

What? No way. It's an interesting study that proves it's a good job of proving, you know, you have to confirm the things that you know. I like the way that Circe weaves all these confessions out of everyone, like not that I like them, but the style in which she does it is really interesting, right? With like, Pysel and the psychological torture and with Watt and the torture is pretty obvious, like I don't need to tell you all, but ultimately the

way she gets them to say these untruths is she just never actually say like, this is what I want you to say, or anything as explicit as that. She says, oh that's not what happened though, is it? This is like, I think you might want to rethink what happened, like oh I'm not sure you're remembering correctly, and gets them to kind of say it and weave the story or sometimes she'll suggest parts of the story, but she always states it as a like, this is what happened and this is the truth, right? Like, and in previous chapters, she just suggests like, oh, what if this person had a fall? She turns something into the truth and sort of like puts that all together. It's very much like a spell or like

witchcraft man, it's passing these these words into a new reality or into the world. And I like how that works together, you know, with the probably the inspiration for her name, Cersei, the witch. So oh, yes, yes. I was wondering if you were gonna take it there when you said witchcraft. I was like, is she? And it's crazy when you think about it, right? Like Sansa's letter. We got our very first look at it in the end of A Game of Thrones when she sits Sansa down and Sansa starts to push back at her and say, well, I don't want to write that. And she says, well, you're gonna have to. And that's the truth now, don't you understand? You know, that's her entire thing Yeah, that's a great point. It's consistent. It's consistent with the Searcy that we see earlier in the in the books

Watt pleads that he is just a singer and Qyburn cuts one of his nipples into his hand asking Margaery took his nipples in her mouth and then he cuts one of his nipples off with the razor, and Circe feels ill. Part of her wants to close her eyes, but she's the queen, and this is treason. Lord Tywin would not have turned away." Um, couple things. It is treason that you're just butchering a man for no reason. Yes, you're so clever to have seen it. Uh, second of all, when you said Lord Tywin, I totally forgot it, like, triggered something in my brain. My really good friend Olayna's cat is named Stuart, but our friend Kevin and myself call him Lord Tywin. And it gets her very angry about it, and she's like, he's not Lord Tywin, and we're like, yes he is. So we like to call him Lord Tywin behind

her back, but mostly in front of her back. But so whenever anyone says Lord Tywin and we're like, yes he is. So we like to call him Lord Tywin behind her back, but mostly in front of her back. But so whenever anyone says Lord Tywin, I just think of that cat. Awww. It feels like one of those things for you. If she had never reacted, would you even have kept calling him Lord Tywin this whole time? No. Absolutely not. The only reason that we do it is because she reacts. And I think shit, part of her loves it. I think part of her actually loves it, you know? Like, it's a thing we do it is because she reacts and I think shit part of her loves it. I think part of her actually loves it, you know, like it's a thing we do. You took pleasure in just calling him Lord Tywin.

I thought that the Lord Tywin would not have turned away was interesting, right? It's like the twisted version of the man who passes the sentence swings a sword and father will know if you look away from a game of thrones in Bran, especially with considering the beats that we tied back to Ned's chapters last chapter. Another very Ned lesson but twisted and fucked up and dirty. Yes, absolutely. And the fact that like, she's not the one to an extent, there has been no sentence passed, there is no justice in any of this, but also that she's not even the one, to an extent, doing the torturing, right? She's having Qyburn do all the dirty work as she keeps her hands physically clean. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it's clear, like, she's a mob boss's daughter here.

Yeah. You know? Like, this is the dirty work that she's used to boss's daughter here. Yeah. You know? Like, this is the dirty work that she's used to and she knows that I have to do this. Yeah. And she doesn't have to. In the end. But she's gonna do it. Well, to exist she has to.

She was born to psychopath and I love that for her. That's my girl. I do. Yeah, I do wonder, because obviously they're gonna like disrobe You know the blue bard so I'm like what did they think was gonna happen if you cut off this man's nipples like They're gonna know that you tortured him. I'm gonna find out. Just one. Just one. Well in the end, Watt told them his life story that he was raised to be a Chandler

but was more skilled at making lutes, so he ran off at age 12 to join a troupe of musicians he heard at a fair. He had wandered half the reach before coming to King's Landing and finding favor at court. Qyburn continues his work, saying, "...Clearly the blue bard found too much favor from the wrong queen. The true queen stands before him. Dang. And then we have, yes, Circe blamed Margaery Tyrell for this. If not for her, Watt might have lived a long and fruitful life, singing his little songs and bedding piggirls and

crofters' daughters. Her scheming forced this on me. She has soiled me with her treachery." By dawn, the singer's high blue boots were full of blood, and he had told them how Margaery would fondle herself as she watched her cousins pleasuring him with their mouths. At other times, he would sing for her whilst she sated her lusts with other lovers. her lusts with other lovers." Oh, Cersei. We're deep in it now, aren't we? Wow. What, Jason Mendoza?

Oh, Cersei, we're really in it now! Oh my gosh. Does Tana are, like, the Jason Mendoza for this? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Look, I'm not one to argue semantics with Cersei Lannister because she would simply step on me, but I do think it is her fault for this torture and not Margaery's. I'm just going out on a limb with this one.

But someone has to pay with their flesh, right, to get what Cersei wants, and it's not her. Flesh pays for the blood sacrifice of her, stopping her prophecy from coming true, quote-unquote. Stopping, with finger quotes, right? Like, committing to enabling it to happen is really what's... I mean, she's somehow just putting herself right in the corner of it over and over. And the biggest problem, again, is that this is a checkmate. Like, you're throwing a giant boulder at a small glass hut. You're breaking the truce, the checkmate. The checkmate that's keeping you in power is that you're not going at Margaery. That's the checkmate that keeps you in power and vice versa.

Margaery doesn't go at you because you're in power. You're flying way too close to the sun. One little break and this bursts open and all of your support goes and King's Landing is all hell's broken loose and that's exactly what Tiwap's gonna have. That's a good point. They're in this sort the blood to the prophecy, right? Without realizing she's bringing it ever closer. If she had just stopped doing all this, maybe no one would want to kill her. Right? Perhaps if you stop torturing people, they would not dislike you.

But the way that she also approaches this and like forces Wat to learn, you know, these new truths, this new reality and the torture of it. I think this chapter would have been really interesting alongside some of Theon's as well, because in the background of A Feast for Crows, right, what's happening is the torture of Theon turning into Riech. And you can sort of imagine that it's very much a parallel to this and maybe in a different version of the books. Again, like, these chapters, like how it could go alongside the Barbary Dust and stuff, like, peers well with what

happened to Theon being told, no, your name is Reek. This is what happened to you. You deserve this. That's smart. I didn't think about that. That's exactly- I mean, it's completely brainwashing and rewiring. Exactly. And then also, like, you know, as you're pointing out, right, like she keeps saying, oh, all of this, like, this isn't my fault. She keeps telling herself that all of this is for Tommen, when all of it is for the crown. And to keep it at least, like, what price will you pay and who will pay it for you to hold on to the pride of being queen? And it's a question even Daenerys asks herself. She's like, how many people must suffer for if I am to be queen, like under my rule? And like, she comes at it in a very

different angle, of course. She's like, this is my fault, instead of being like, nope, this is their fault. But they both kind of come to the same answer, right? That it costs blood, it costs flesh, and eventually you run out of blood and flesh to pay it if you want to both keep your kingdom and rule. Indeed. Uh. Cersei and Qyburn force Watt to name other lovers. Ser Talad, Lambert Tumberry, Jalabarjo, the Redwine Twins, Osney Kettleblack, Hugh Clifton, and Loras Tyrell.

Cersei, upset at Loras being mentioned, makes him remove his name and the Redwines. She needs their fleet to deal with Euron. She pressures him to omit the Twins and Loras, negotiating that if he remembers the truth at Margaery's trial, he'll be sent to live his life at the Night's Watch. She then leaves him with Qyburn to tend to his wounds and give him Poppy for the pain, you know, before round two. She climbs the stairs from the Black Celves, thinking, she must be strong, for what she

does she does for Tommen and the realm. She must rest. Yeah, we have this line of, it was a pity that Maggie the Frog was dead. Piss on your prophecy old woman. The little queen may be younger than I, but she's never been more beautiful. And soon, she will be dead. Lady Merriweather was waiting in her bedchamber. Ah, nothing like a little sex after a very devoted night of torture. One thing I really do like about the prophecy is that when Margaery does die at some point, which is likely to happen, Tommen as well, likely to happen, and maybe even Myrcella,

all of these things, like, ruling will not be enough. The crown, the throne, even with all those people gone, like none of that flesh will have been enough to spend to fill the great terrible hole that's within her. Of her father, of his legacy, his terror, her mother, Jaime. And the way she handles that torture of the blue bard is really interesting, especially when we look at Jaime and Edmure, right? They both have learned from their dad in different ways. Jaime and the Kingsguard helped him with this, but he also learned to be more performative.

Like throughout the entire chapter at Riverrun, we know that he doesn't want to put the pressure on. In fact, he says, let's just get this done the easy way. Here's what I have to offer you. Don't make it hard. And then they make it hard, so he has to play back publicly, performatively. Cersei went right in for the offense, right in for the kill. And the more public and performative half of this comes next week, of course, when she goes to the Sept. But really interesting reveals reveals and yeah, none of this is gonna be enough for Cersei.

You know, getting the power that she wants, wiping the chess pieces off the board, none of it's gonna be what she really wants in the end. Yeah, I think that's a fantastic point. It really is kind of all that hole left by her father and the desire for his validation to please him and her own freedom and agency, but she can't get the freedom and agency that she wants. She thinks that the crown is the same thing as well as it means, like, I don't know, you fucking made it, you did it, you climbed the corporate ladder, right? And that's not what her father wanted for her, which because he didn't think big, it just wasn't.

And also, like, there's an aspect in which, like, because she could never, because of her body, like some of the stuff we were talking about last episode, like she was never going to get the sort of, like, validation and admiration that she wanted. And like, the crown is not the same thing as that. And all of it, as you said, just has left her with this insatiable hunger

that I want, I want, that we keep talking about. She doesn't even know what she wants. She can't articulate. She lost it so long ago, you know? Yeah, yeah. That gets lost in all the vengeance though, right? Like all the vengeance, all the pain, all of the fighting for your own power, like, it's so easy to actually lose that and then realize that nothing's left and you've burnt it all down. Yes. Dreams are turned to dust in the light of day or whatever. It's said later in this chapter, everything turning to ashes

in your mouth. Like, I don't know, Cersei and Tyrion like to say to each other, you know, siblings and their cute little inside jokes. When Cersei returns to bed, her ladies are all asleep except for Taina, who asks if it was terrible and then comforts her and tells her, oh, it was all for Tommen. And it's kind of interesting because I think it's like a blink and you miss it moment. But I feel that it's implied here that Circe and Tana may have had sex again. Like Circe asked Tana to pour wine and Tana says, if it please you, that is all I desire.

And then you have Circe going, liar. She knew what Tana desired. So be it, if that woman was besotted with her, that would help ensure that she and her husband remained loyal in a world so full of treachery that was worth a few kisses. She is no worse than most men. At least there's no danger of her ever getting me with child. The wine helped, but not enough. I feel soiled. The queen complained that she stood beside her window cup in hand and... I mean, I guess she's like still as close on because T still helps disrobe her but I feel like it's implied that it happened again and

You know the the few kids or maybe it's just a few kisses were exchanged I don't know but in regards to the part about The fact that Tina couldn't get her pregnant again It feels to me implied that they had sex again and Circe just doesn't really acknowledge it the same way that she thinks of how it never happened like last time like any at any point last chapter or how the time with Osnie at the end of this chapter is shown off page or it happens off page and so I feel like there's a couple layered things happening here with Tina you know Circe thinks she's purchasing loyalty with her body as she does with the kettle blacks

and whether or not Circe actually wants it at this moment, maybe, but maybe not, and how she thought of Robert last time when it came to Taina and the sense of obligation of feeling forced into a sexual position for Circe, even though she's the one who actually does have the power over Taina in this instance. And as we discussed in regards to consent in Tainaaina last chapter, there's a lot of nipple

stuff I guess going on in all these chapters now that I think about it with Watt and then her twisting Taina, like as we've established in other previous POVs, George Boob Guy, but like in a fucked up way in these Cersei chapters anyways. And then also how this this act, you know, if they did in fact have sex, like it happens after torture or like just like what happened with Ares and how he would rape Rhaella after burning someone. And so you have a lot of interesting layered things happening here with Cersei, right? Because she repeats a lot of what we see are in fact Tywin's behaviors and his abuses, but also it has shades of the people who were around Tywin, like his father Tytos and the king Aerys. People that Tywin didn't really like. Which are all people that contributed to parts of him, or all people that he absorbed into parts of

him in a way, whether he liked it or not, right? Yeah, absolutely. They influenced who he became and like that there's an aspect in which you can like argue that sometimes people hate in others the things they hate in themselves like Tywin turns out did in fact hire sex workers, right? Yes There's a song that I had just put on my Circe playlist. Hold on, I have to find it. Look, I know that we're like over Amanda Palmer in 2024, but I actually really still love some of her music, and this one is off of Who Killed Amanda Palmer. It runs in the family, and it's so good because there are these lyrics like It's traditional it is inherited predispositional all day. I've been wondering what's inside me. Who can I blame for it?

I say it runs in this family this family that carries me to such great lengths to open my legs up to anyone who will Have me it runs in the family. I come by it. Honestly do what you want because who knows it might fill me up There are a bunch of other really great lines in there. Like, we tend to bruise easily, mad in the blood. I'm telling you, because I just want you to know me, know me and my family. We're wonderful folks, but don't get too close to me, because you might knock me up. Well, I know. Yeah, again, that's why I'm like, yeah,

we're over Amanda Palmer in 2024. But like, she still hits sometimes, she still hits. So I got to give her like one rose maybe. But that just reminded me of that, like, everything that Tywin ran to get out of his body and his bloodstream and his soul from his own father, like became part of him in the worst ways. Yeah. Yeah. The parts that he was burying down all come out to the front with Cersei. Put the man in manifested, am I right?

She would actually love you for saying that, I think. I wish Cersei Lannister was real. My god. Cersei complains. She feels soiled, and Tyena wakes up Dorcas and Jocelyn to get her hot water. Tyena helps her disrobe and she herself disrobes and climbs in too and they share the bath, Cersei lying back in Tyena's arms. To your points about them potentially having just slept together again, this is some really interesting

very soft moment with them, right? Like Cersei's allowing herself to be held by Tyena, and where she's played kind of the predator in their pawn and predator kind of, you know, sexy times. I mean, she's very, she's like, I'm the mommy Dom now, I guess, to Tyena. So here in a moment of aftercare, right? She's letting herself be held. Kind of, in a way, and it's what makes Taina leaving in the next chapter so much more of a betrayal in some ways, because this is the most intimate she's really been with anyone other than Jaime. Yeah, that's true. Maybe even more intimate than with Jaime considering what she discloses later on.

Exactly. Cersei tells her she hopes to spare Tommen from the worst of all of this, that he is fond of Margaery and her cousins. This is where Taina suggests maybe not all the cousins are guilty and leads Cersei to believe one of them could be innocent, perhaps Ala, the shy but sly one, could bear witness. Cersei knows alone the Blue Bard's confession wouldn't suffice, but Alatai Vrel and Osni Cuddleblack? That could help seal the deal. Yeah, Cersei asks Taina to stay with her, for she does not wish to sleep alone, and

as she sleeps she dreams that she's chained in place of the singer in the Black Cells, naked, blood dripping from the tips of her breasts, her nipples torn off by Tyrion's teeth. She begs him not to harm her children, and Tyrion, in her dream, is naked and covered in coarse hair. "'You shall see them crowned,' he said, and, "'You shall see them die!' Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and pain sawed through her like a hot knife. She woke shuddering in Teina's arms. Yeah, there's something interesting there of like Tyrion being covered in that coarse hair, which the last time we saw her reference the coarse hair, it was Robert's coarse hair and Taina's coarse hair, right?

That's what she was drawing. So in a way, and the Kettle Blacks have dark hair, right? Coarse hair too there, it seems. So in a way, it's kind of some of her other fears manifesting through Tyrion, because he wasn't that hairy. He really doesn't seem that hairy. Yeah, so with that in mind, that's interesting that these other fears like her assaults from Robert and from some of the other men that assault her kind of take hold and her and Tyena. Yeah, that actually is also interesting in contrast with like the whatever hair symbolizes in her story considering that she, you know, gets shaved later on. And hair grows back, yeah.

Yeah, and then also the people wearing their like, little hair shirts and stuff. That I know you've analyzed also long, long ago. I don't even remember what POB that was, but I remember you discussing it and the significance. I feel like it was either Damp Hair or Lancel. I don't know. Some other PoB. Maybe. I don't know. Some other girl.

I don't know. Taina comforts Circe from her bad dreams, saying that dreams turn to dust in the light of day, and asks if it was about Tyrion again. Instead, Circe tells her about Magi the Frog's prophecy. She asks if they use the word Valoncar in Myr and thinks of when she had asked her sceptre Sarenella about the word herself and Malara had loudly drowned in the well, but she doesn't talk about that she was one to push her. I don't know, the name Sarenella makes me think of Salmonella.

Anyways, Taina tells her that this magi was a scam and knew of her greatness, and of how Slannister knew of her brother and was jealous of how young and beautiful and full of pride Cersei was. And you have like, could it be? Cersei wanted to believe it, but she's like, no, it's probably real. And Tayna reminds her though that Tommen is alive before her eyes. And best of all, he was safe. And honestly, like I said, like in regards to intimacy, I think I'm surprised that Cersei told

Tina so much about the prophecy, some things that she's just never told anyone else about before. And I wonder if Tina will use it against her. Right. I'm curious. I mean, looking ahead at what we know, we know that Cersei and Margaery survived their trials. Which, if that's so, that means that the bloodbath has not happened

between them yet. Right. That means it's to come in Tiwa, likely in the first half. Huh. So, Taina sticking the knife in further could happen. Yeah, exactly. Or like, did she hear this and she's like, mm, there are two Horcruxes left, you know, before we get rid of Cersei. Yeah.

It definitely makes me think that there is more to come. And I mean, it does make me wonder if they have ties to Young Griff too. Yeah. There's something there that- As friends in the Reach. Yeah. Friends in the Reach who have ties to an exile company that was in Essos. Yeah. I mean, they very well might.

I know that people have discussed, you know, the possibility of Teina and Varies knowing one another. I mean, yeah, I'm just trying to figure it out. And that explains, yes, as you know, Teina may in fact be be drawn to Cersei, but also it explains why she's kind of tempering some of Cersei's plans. She's like, no, we want to keep Cersei in power still for a bit instead of getting her ousted too soon, because remember, Varys says, I don't know, she's been doing a great job of setting the stage for my plans, so.

Yeah. And then you have Littlefinger, too, saying the same same thing that Cersei is not adhering to his plans. The best employee they're not paying. Hahaha. Ugh. Just like that to happen, right? A woman in a male-dominated field. Oh my god, right? They're not getting paid just as much as men. Yeah, Cersei's getting paid 25 to the dollar, so is Tyga. Oh my god.

paid 25 to the dollar, so is Tyga. Oh my god. Sersi wants to break her fast with Tommen, who chatters away about his cats, and Sersi thinks, oh, he's so sweet and innocent. How can he ever hope to rule in this cruel realm? The mother in her wanted only to protect him, the queen in her knew he must grow harder, or the Iron Throne was certain to devour him. I love that language. He keeps chattering about how he wants to learn to fight from Loras, and Cersei's like, well Loras won't be coming back, sweetie. He's dying on Dragonstone, sweetie.

Tommen argues Margaery says he will. We pray for his strength from the Seven. Cersei's like, oh, and will you be spending time with that little fucking bitch this afternoon? She says it nicer than that, but I know that's what she's thinking. But no, Margaery is preparing for Maiden's Day. She's fasting, she's purifying. Cersei hadn't had to do all that shit in years since she was a maiden. Back in the day. Back in the day.

Thrice wed, yet she still would have us believe she is a maid. Demure and White, the little queen would lead her hens to Baelor's Sep to light tall white candles at the maidens' feet, and hang parchment garlands around her holy neck. A few of her hens, at least. On Maidens' Day widows, mothers, and whores alike were barred from the septs, along with men, lest they profane the sacred songs of innocence. Only virgin maids could. Mother, did I say something wrong? Cersei kissed her son's brow. You said something very wise, sweet Ling. Now run along and play with your kittens.

I feel like you really channeled Sickly Victorian Child for that. Mama, I'm so tired. Please mama. child for that. I don't know why. Mama, I'm so tired. Please mama. But yeah, that ending part, it reminds me of Ned thinking that, you know, that out of the mouth of babes or whatever. Oh, and Sansa's like, Joffy said anything like that, old drunk king or whatever, and Ned puts it together. Oh yeah, this is her moment when like, Tommen's mouth of babes is, oh, I do it at Maiden's Day. I ruin her life at Maiden's Day. It's perfect. Yeah. Uh, the one holiday we know. Wouldn't it be so fucking funny if I accused her of fucking people on Maiden's Day?

Honestly, there's a poetry to it. It's just like a little too perfect though. I see it. I see the plan. Sorry, see, I see the plan. See it. Well, after she summons Osney and tells him the new, ever-evolving plan, he will go to the wall, but first he must confess his treason. And his treason keeps getting more complicated, the treason that he definitely, for sure, did. He must confess his sex with Margaery. Also, the sex hasn't happened. Cerce pushes that he must go speak with the High Septon and tell him these sins, how he fucked Margaery AND her cousins, or maybe just two of them, alright? And Osney says that after Margaery's head is cut off,

he wants to take that kiss that she never gave him. Oh, an un-kiss, you could call it. Wow. Also, okay, the language in all this, very alt-right MRO shit coming from Osney, like, talking about how, like, well, so, like, of course, all of this is very, like you were saying, it's intangible because none of it has happened, but yes, it's also happened, and Cersei is manifesting all of this plan into reality. And so like Osney hasn't had sex with Margaery, but because she has no interest in having sex with him and he hasn't gotten to have sex with her, also he's mad about the sex that he has premeditated that Margaery wants nothing to do with, that she doesn't even know about. So he's

so mad about it that when her head's cut off, he wants to kiss her. He says, like he's diluted himself into wanting to kiss Marjorie, dismembering her head to own the libs. Like he's been so riled up into that, like now he's mad about it. Now he's mad because Cersei's been manipulating him to think that he's had his right as a man taken from him. Right, and I love that you said that because I do think it plays into what we see with the end of this chapter. Because he does think it's right. He thinks he's entitled to Margaery's body in death.

He thinks he's entitled to violence against Margaery in taking that kiss from her no matter what it is. Because Margaery's a woman. She might no matter what it is, because Margaery's woman, she might be his queen, but he thinks he's entitled to those bodies and that and he feels that way about Circe's as well as we see at the end. It's not even like, and Circe doesn't really question it. It's not, it doesn't take much for her I think to push him into feeling that way. And because I think there's an aspect of Cersei that believes this is just the nature of men, right? And she doesn't because she's been raised in a society that tells her it is and she's like, well, I was treated as though men were entitled to my body. So maybe

fucking Osney is entitled to Margaery's who knows? Yeah, it's like what you said up top right about Margaery, even in Cersei's eyes doesn't count. She's just coin. She's just a pound of flesh to exchange for power. And Cersei is not untouched by that, right? The passage we're about to get is terrible and shows that she too is just coin being presented. She's just meat for slaughter. And it even reminds me of that exchange between Alicent and Rhaenys in House of the Dragon when Alicent says that a true queen counts the cost to her people and Rhaenys says, and yet you toil still in service to men. Your father, your husband, your son, you desire not to be free but

to make a window in the wall of your prison. Because Cersei is playing some 8d chess in her mind, thinking that she's owning everybody and that she's winning, but she's not. She's making a window in the wall of her prison. She's finding quick, easy ways to survive, to keep the power that she so barely has in her grasp. Yeah. She hates her body, right, for the lot that it has given her in life, and yet all she has done is create the circumstances for which she can be devalued for that body and reinforce that system with what happens with the punishment, like that, you know, didn't

make sense and she didn't deserve in regards to the walk of atonement or shame, whatever, and that suddenly the kingdom feels entitled to her body. And also, I mean, I love that you drew that connection because, like, absolutely she's building this cage, but there's an aspect that's also...you were talking about her as coin and, like, how she's imposing all these things on Margaery and thinking of her as expendable and, or no, thinking of her as like this coin as well and like that's actually literally what Viserys says to Daenerys. He says the subtext aloud.

He's like, you're the coin with which I am buying Drogo's army. Yeah, because that's what women are worth. Right? Yes. And it's even like, there's even some symbolism there, right, in the House of the Undying with Westeros being eaten, being gnawed at, the dwarves eating Westeros's tits. The language there very much reminds me of Robert mauling at Cersei's breasts and a little bit of the Rhaella and Aerys that we

discussed in the last couple chapters against that scene and even here with kind of what happens between Osny and Cersei here, right? Because Yes Osny is pretty upset. He's like, I think I would go to hell for lying to the High Septon so if so, I need to have some flavor to my lies and I need to fuck a queen and Cersei almost slaps him. She's like, I want to slap him. I do too. He's terrible. He's awful. But she tells herself she's doing this for Tommen, and she kind of submits and says, well, very well, give me an hour

and meet me in my bedchamber. And Osni instead says we've waited long enough, and he tears the bodice of her gown apart, yanks it apart, rips the silk of it, and tells her to take off the rest before I tear that too. You can keep the crown on. I like you in the crown. So for a chapter that was full of Cersei scheming, being somewhat successful or feeling like it's successful, right?

Like Cersei felt like she was on top, like everything's coming together. We end it with not a very successful celebratory note. We end it with her submitting to coercive sex with Osney and almost death with dignity, right? Like she takes that moment in the middle of that passage where she's like, well fine, but you know, Come back in an hour and then we can have sex. She wants to try to have some sort of control, right? Some sort of power over how this happens and how this goes down. If she's going to die, at least let it be with dignity and using her body kind of as payment for that, but he does not allow her to have that and we skip out on the actual sex, that's enough to tell us how this went, but I'm sure we would get further dissociations from Cersei because

this is once more sex on someone else's terms, her body being used as payment. She even immediately registers from the way he speaks, the way he holds himself, his body language, and the way he's coming at her that he is a man like Robert. He is an archetype of a man who has raped her, right? And it's pretty staggering as you realize that through her mind. You know, Cersei and I, like, I get her, I fucked ugly men, I fucked sexy men, I fucked evil men, I fucked good men. And Cersei has too, and she immediately was able to clock what type of man Asni was, and what danger she was in. Yeah, I love what you said about, like...

I mean, you can see, the text shows you how she dissociates from this moment, because it cuts off there, right? We don't see it. And Cersei also, that means perhaps she is not present as well. She doesn't wish for this. She's repressing it. Yeah. She's a commodity here to trade. And she has to kind of look at herself as separate from her own body in some aspects. Mm. When you say it like that, it sounds like as though then she is by separating herself from it

and object—she's objectifying herself, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Commodifying, objectifying. What's crazy is-hmm. Yeah, commodifying, objectifying. What's crazy is it kind of reminds me of His Dark Materials, like Marisa being severed from her demon potentially, and how that would be, right? And how she protects herself in that story, Marisa Coulter, by separating herself, basically, by being severed by not...

I mean, you know, imagine taking your heart out of your body and putting it up on a shelf. Yeah. I mean, that's what she's doing. And I think we see that happen very much in that torture scene because she does feel nauseated at it. She does feel like some guilt as we see and then she just starts more and more as they cut parts off of what, cut off the parts of herself. Yeah, hell, I mean, it's kind of the rise of the guilt trip when you get to the Walk of Shame, right? And she actually literally has that vision of Sansa, of all these people she's wronged, Malara. Yeah, she doesn't like, I think, inherently take pleasure from it in the way that like Ramsey does or things like that, right?

But more and more she's desensitizing herself to it, even more than she was already desensitized to the troubles of people, because as you pointed out, right, she was born with like a gold spoon in her mouth. I say gold because Lannisters. And yeah. Speaking of, like there's this line here that I wanted to pull out from one of Dani's dance chapters in regards to Dario that speaks to me in regards to the last line of this chapter of Circe's where Osney says, take off the rest before I tear that too. You can keep the crown on. I like you in the crown." And I forgot to grab the

Dany chapter number, sorry all. But while Daenerys and Daario are together, which seems like a much more, I think, somehow wholesome arrangement. She thinks if she had been some ordinary woman, she would have gladly spent her whole life touching Dario, tracing his scars and making him tell her how he'd come by every one. I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Danny thought, but he had not asked it and never would. Dario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon Queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me. Besides, kings who lost their crowns oft lost their heads as well, and she could see no reason why it would be any different for a Queen." So, um, yeah,

it shows that Danyette knows that she's in a very, you know, dangerous position as the queen, but also she understands that part of what is desirable about her, like that the people want from her is that power. It is the crown and the queen. Like for Osney, he's like, I will, I just want to fuck the queen. It doesn't matter which one. He wants the pleasure of the conquest of having said, yeah, I fucked a queen. Yeah, because when you take the crown off, she's just a woman in their eyes.

Just a woman. And that's yeah. And when you see it like that, now I get it. It ties in with that Cersei chapter in the walk. Yeah. God, it's terrible what he's done here. How could he do this? Cersei, I'm worried for you, girl. Get out of there. Yeah, absolutely. That very much feels like it ties in well with uh, with her last chapter, the walk.

Yes, and you know, the one downside of obviously potentially the D.Va not being up anymore is that when we come back after dance and the wins a winner someday, oh shit, D.Va is gonna be mad. D.Va, D.Va down, D.Va down. Claws are gonna be out in the Winds of Winter. Can't wait for that. Well, we'll be back in our last episode for A Song of Ice and Fire POV of 2024 with Cersei Ten in a Feast for Crows will be closing out- Oh my god, we'll be closing out Feast for the last time!

Until, you know, more books. Yeah, oh. Wait, no, literally the last- wait, no, no. No, no, more books doesn't do that! It would just be the last time. No, more books doesn't make us un-blast Feast. Doesn't make more Feast. I guess we have to start over all over again. This is really sad. No, Morphox doesn't make us unbluffiest!

I guess we have to start over all over again. This is really sad. God. Well, we'll be saying goodbye to us feast for grows. All must choose. Almost choose! Almost choose. Well, you can find us online on twitter.com still somehow as girls gone cannon.

C-A-N-O-N. You can also find us on blue sky. Yes. Where we're active again. Yes. We're there again. We're there. And you can send us emails, your reports if you'd like, at girls gone cannon at gmail.com.

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been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Goodbye. Goodbye. It's a completely different vibe, but I'm thinking of now like what is it, Billie Eilish's You Should See Me in a Crown?