Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 241 — ADWD Cersei II featuring Alisha

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Walk Cersei home. Alisha from Direwolf City joins us to watch the queen lose her crown but not her pride in this final published chapter. (As a quick reminder, GGC will be taking a break after this episode before resuming our next POV at the end of February.) Where to find Alisha Twitter — https://x.com/totesnotalice Bluesky — https://app.bsky.cz/profile/stillnotalice.bsky.social  Direwolf City — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVUTAOYvXNEU3zc3-G_uifA ----- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon Reads a Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 241, Circe 2 in A Dance with Dragons featuring Alicia. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to have Alicia here to help us close out Circe. Alicia's... Hello. I'll let you introduce yourself and then I shall gush about you.

Okay, I listen. I'm so pumped to be here. I told them backstage non passive aggressive way. I don't know what possessed you to have me on for this big task, but I'm going to try to rise to it. Like they said, I'm Alicia. I am one fourth of the show Dire Wolf City over on YouTube. I am on Twitter as Totes, not Alice.

And I am on Blue Sky as Still, not Alice. And you will find me on YouTube on Dire Wolf City. I'm so excited to have you here because we were just reminiscing before this call that we've been friends since like the old days on the internet when it was Twitter, not X, which I will never call it. I'm old. I'm old. But we've known each other for a long time. And a while back, we were hanging out with you guys. I think it was during, it had to have been either the Righteous Gemstones or during like a Greens and Blacks episode or something that all of us were together. And we asked each of you what POV you wanted to come on for. And if I remember, you had said Aria or Cersei,

and we kind of had a lot of great Aria guests come on, but we wanted to kind of space out. And so you were in our mind for Cersei for so long. And this is like years ago that this conversation happened because obviously the structure is we do the one POV at a time, which means sometimes we might talk about doing a POV with you and be like, we'll let you know. Some day, some year you're going to find out when you're going to be on Girls Gone Cannon. So this is it. It's happened. Yeah. Our plans, our plots, our schemes are for thousands of years. Yeah, right.

Than a Jezaret POV structure schemes. It's definitely been a long time coming. And I don't know, it's one of those things we've worked together so many times, but this is the first time I've come into y'all's house with my bullshit. So, you know, just I'll make sure to take off my shoes. Be respectful. Do whatever, you know, I mean, it's your house now. Welcome to the house of canon. Wow. I had to go look in the fridge. It actually is your house today. That is how we would like for you to treat it. One thing I do want to warn the listeners about Chloe and Eliana have such beautiful structured minds. And they are way more organized than Dire Wolf City will ever be.

All exception, like just because me and Gray Area are hot messes, like Ara, she tries. She tries so hard. Like, she is so hard. She's like, I made an outline. When we did Euphoria for that season, that was me and Aura. We were vibing. We were vibing so hard together. Well, since you're in-house, you get to be here for something really exciting, which

is the announcement of the next POV, which subsequently kind of announces the final POV that's published in the published community order. Yeah, this is big. This is almost choose, almost choose. So we're going to reveal it after the housekeeping, but Alicia, there are two characters left if you don't know, we have not put it in this doc. I do because I know things, but I'm going to act surprised. Okay. Okay. All right, good. Get your best surprise face on. Okay. But we will be revealing it. If you had to call it in the air, what do you think that next POV is? See, I can't say because it's one or two, and I already revealed that I know which one. It's John Connington and then Sansa.

Wow. And then Padme. We talked about it last episode. Oh my god. Okay. And then Barristan. I do want to redo the Barristan ones one day. I mean, I want to redo all of them. It wouldn't be a bad choice because we were just talking 2018. Like listen, we were talking about how 2017-2018 was like a prime time to be in this fandom.

They started Girls Gone Cannon in 2018, which is now seven years ago. Jesus fucking Christ. Listen, listen. And this is a good segue into talking about Cersei. I'll say this right now. Like, the way that I have viewed Cersei's chapters has evolved so much through the years. Yeah. You know, so it's like we are getting older, we're wiser, the way we view these chapters and these characters evolves. It wouldn't be out of pocket for y'all

to revisit some POVs. I'm just saying. I think like a refresher, we were talking about calling like remix or something and doing like a broad, a broader like overview maybe of the characters. Oh my god, it's so Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, right. Oh my god, Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, right. Oh my god. Yes. But that's such a good point. So I feel like in 2015, I had like such a very meme knowledge of characters. Like I didn't have a deep understanding of characters

to the extent I do a decade later. I feel very differently about the characters. I was much more Game of Thrones minded in some aspects because I watched the show then read the books, right? So I just approached it very differently in 2015, but I still approached it and played with it and like wanted more. And now how I look at a character, it's like breaking the meme on each character, you know, like every character we've covered, I feel like I've changed my opinions 10 times through on them. And I feel like that could happen again. I mean, with a full reread, which is what we're about to be doing in the next few weeks, I feel like.

I know for me, the first time I picked up the books was like 2013. And it was like right as season three started. And I'm like, when we go ahead and read these books and then do the show and we won't talk about how it was halfway through storm when the red wedding happened, like a few chapters before I could get to it. But that's not the point. You know, I remember the first time I read Cersei chapters, they really triggered me because you know, my own birth mother, you know, and I did not enjoy her like I just like absolutely not you know,

like, fuck this bitch. And then in about 2015 or so, I reread her chapters and just like, it became funny more than it was triggering. And as time goes by, the more it's like, oh, no, like I used to think she was straight up stupid. She's not. She's like, even when she does idiotic things, it's idiotic choices with lore. So I'm excited to dive into this. Yeah, I love that. I feel like she's really like that great thing of like the pushing in one direction and then pulling back the other and revealing somewhere in the middle on these characters is something George does great. Like the way he writes these characters are so Because it's like George does great, like the way he writes these characters are so interesting and I'm really excited to dive into these last few.

Well, with the next POV and because we are on two POVs that are a big chunk of the story, the last two POVs here, we're going to take a little pause on A Song of Ice and Fire. After this episode, we will be pausing our Patreon for February. We'll be back on February 21st with A Song of Ice and Fire, though, with this new POV. But we are thinking about maybe releasing some Magical Girls Gone Cannon episodes for you. That is, of course, right now our Sailor Moon series. Sailor Moon Cosmos is what's next. So we would maybe come to that after having covered the last

couple seasons. But that's a pretty big maybe. I'm saying a lot of maybe. Oh, I thought it was definitely. Mayhaps, mayhaps. We could just kill everyone instead. Sorry, no, mayhaps 2025 has been like, it's been a ride. It just started. It literally just started. It is such a ride. So we'll see. We'll see how we feel. We'll be we want to make sure that we're also like rested and can put our whole heart and soul into these last two POVs and like really, really make it special for y'all. Yeah, I have a lot of reading to get done. I mean, I alluded to it, but I know you and I both have talked about trying to reread the entire series in that time, as well as a couple other stories that we feel have something to do with the next character or two characters, all must choose. And we also kind of need the break as Alicia so set up, teed up for

us. We have been doing this for a little bit of time. And the last handful of POVs that we've been doing as well, especially with Hot D in the middle of it and other works coming out from George, we want to be able to enjoy and bring you content that we enjoyed making and feel confident about and that also we feel inspired about having made. We have done weekly pretty much 90% of the time weekly episodes for seven years. And that is insane. And I would say we learned a lot in our Jon Snow POV era, where we continued hammering and hitting on that. And the story sometimes needs a little air, breaks are healthy. And we need these two planned kickass episodes for you. Yeah, we're going to take 13 years, sorry, 14 years.

Stop! Or at least, sorry. It's healthy. It's healthy. I guess so. If he can take breaks, we can too, is what I'm fucking saying. I say go for the breaks. Because if there's one thing that our Wolf City is notorious for, it's like,'re gonna take a break, we are so going to be back soon guys, and then long

hiatus and it's healthy and it's refreshing and I regret nothing. So take y'all's break. Let me get to say we're so back every time we're so back. Yeah. I like to start all the Dire Wolf City episodes by being like, we're here, you know? And it's like, yay, literally, we're here because it's really hard to, you know, all get together sometimes. We're here. Yeah. Something I am excited about, though, speaking of not being Alice, is the In the Lost Lands movie, though. The trailer came out recently. So, yeah. We might release that episode while we're out for y'all for public check out. It's a short story from George and it's in Dream Songs. If you want to get Dream Songs, it's very good.

I very much like that one. Actually pretty much any George short story I'm into and not to not to cast it, but like I'm finishing Fever Dream and I'm really enjoying it. It's very different, but also at the same time, it's very the same. It's a very different environment for George, very different element. But also then there's a whole passage about fire and blood and abolishing slavery. And I'm like, nice, nice, George. You're the same George that I know. So love that. I like reading raw George stuff from the past. So highly recommend The Lost

Lands, In the Lost Lands, Into the Lost Lands, The Lost Lands, whatever you want to title it or just blog. That's coming out. The movie itself is coming out later this year. So looks intense. Well, okay. All right. Something else is coming out later this year, but only like in a month. This is so fucked up. Can you believe?

Like I'm nervous. Yeah, well, this is the last time we really get to kind of like have that sort of surprise last real reveal like because it means that you know the next one you guys so like, yeah, we'll reveal the next one as its own thing. But like you fucking know already. I actually didn't realize we would get to this point. I didn't either. I didn't think it would ever happen.

Like I thought, but I also thought there'd be by this point and then we- Same. Same. Anyways, but you guys hopefully know what we're thinking about. We're not saying it out loud. It's crude. I say it a lot all the time. I know you do.

It's not polite. I'm not very polite. I know you do. It's not polite. I'm not very polite. I know you're very rude. I would have been the beheaded like a harrier or something. If I had stayed in King's Landing. Yeah. So should we do it at the same time? All right.

Yeah. Okay. We should count down from three for us. Count down for us for three. Okay. Three, two, one. Yeah. Okay. Countdown from three for us. Countdown for us for three. Okay. Three, two, one. Sansa Stark. Oh.

It actually is Sansa Stark again. Almost true. And that's what we chose. We're choosing this next POV that we're about to reveal. We're choosing it for a lot of reasons. And one of the biggest reasons we're revealing it, I think, is because of the contrast of leadership in Feast Dance and how it was originally composed. Right? George has said before that he would have put these chapters next to one another in Feast Dance to contrast leadership. And some of these great themes we've talked a lot about

with nature versus nurture and how Cersei might approach something as a queen compared to how our next POV would approach something as a queen. Three, two, one. Daenerys Targaryen. Targaryen. I didn't realize you were saying the last name. Oh my God, I am so surprised. I did not see this coming. Oh my god, I've been waiting

so long. A lot of people didn't see it coming, to be honest. No, most people thought we were doing Tyrion next. Okay, okay. All right, fair. I mean, either way, either way, like, it's a pretty seamless transition from Cersei. Both of them made a lot of sense, I think, together with Cersei. We were just deciding how we wanted to do it. And part of it was also, I think, like, George's favorite character for last, you know. Yeah. And one of mine. I mean, Tyrion will get his hour. We're not going to talk about

the reasons he's last rate this moment. With Daenerys, definitely leadership is such a great thing to pay attention to and ruling and dealing with, you know, right now you have Cersei dealing with religious fanaticism in King's Landing and you have Daenerys who wants to come to Westeros and rule from King's Landing potentially, who also has fanaticism slowly rising around her and just the different ways they will have to deal with that, let alone of course, their past, their histories being sold to King's Cal Drogo, I guess, also in comparison. And also having, you know, Cersei having that contrast of childhood of having somewhere to grow up with people that

should love you, people that do sell you like cattle and just a lot of those differences, I think there's a lot between them that they share. And I think there's also a lot between them that they definitely contradict in one another and are not the same whatsoever. And of course, Cersei, her relationship with Tyrion, there might be some parallels there that we'll find with Daenerys's eventual relationship, however it forms, whether friendship, whether just employee with Tyrion Lannister. I was gonna say Tyrion Targaryen. Wow, I was getting into it for a moment. the way that like family growing up within a family system and then without like that same sort of like a much, much smaller family system and legend and legacy looming over you. So those are some things that I think we're definitely going to explore. Prophecy and prophecy. Yeah, prophecy, prophecy. That's right.

Prophecy and paranoia haunts both of these characters. I'll divulge into it when we get going. But something I definitely realized in this last reread that I did, Cersei and Tyrion probably have the most involvement. We were surprised to realize that. And neither of them will ever be willing to admit it, but out of the two of them, as much as everyone's like, oh, Tyrion is Tywin's true heir, they're neck and neck. I'll get into it more later, but they're definitely neck and neck with. Yeah. Even their understanding of whether or not it's executed wealth, like their own theorizing and practical application

of like understanding diplomacy, understanding how to work with all of these people that you're supposed to take taxes from, employing strategies to do so. Like you can tell that yes, in theory, they both have had an education in politicking. So I found that really fascinating this time and I can't wait to read those chapters for a clash for Tyrion because I think that's going to have some really good stuff to look at in comparison to Cersei. While we do have one last email and a thank you to other emails if we didn't get to your emails about Cersei, I feel like we should do some lost email episodes at some point

and just read some emails that we haven't gotten to really get you guys hooked up. You never know what could happen. Yeah. But this is, I don't know, this is sad. It's the final Rowan report for Circe. Yeah. We cut out all the part where we have been hired as professors at the University of Lesbos that was in the vehicle to this report.

But Rowan says, following up on my email from a few weeks ago about Cersei and the gods regarding the mother, I want to bring up Cersei and the stranger. After Jaime learns Cersei had the audacity to sleep with other men while he was presumed dead, he thinks, I thought that I was the warrior and Cersei was the audacity to sleep with other men while he was presumed dead, he thinks, I thought that I was the warrior and Cersei was the maid, but all the time she was the stranger, hiding her true face from my gaze. Note that the stranger tends to be tied up with, among other things, gender nonconformity, monstrosity, and death. As the only genderless god of the Seven, the stranger often represents liminality, but also the abject. Cersei uses the tool available to her as a woman, sexuality, to get others to do things for her, but using her sexuality and what her gender bestows

upon her also strips her of her womanhood in Jaime's eyes and transforms her from feminine maid to genderless stranger out of the gods. Furthermore, she then is turned even more un-woman in the walk of atonement, stripped of her hair and feminine clothes, shaved completely bald, including body hair. She resembles something alien, closer to the stranger than any gendered figure, including even the crone. Consider that newborn infants have some hair, so the excuse that she's meant to be bare as she was born during the walk doesn't work. Shaving her completely bald as opposed to just giving her a cute jean seberg and breathless haircut, like in the show's misrepresentation of the walk

of atonement, makes her look not only unfeminine but also inhuman, as most human beings have some head and body hair. This is ironic because her womanly sexual transgressions have led to this disfiguring punishment. I think about Cersei when I read Aldous Huxley's book, The Devils of Loudon, adapted into Ken Russell's The Devils, which is one of the best movies of all time, where he describes Urbain Grandier being shaved from head to toe and shown to the crowds afterwards as part of his trial as disfigurement by shaving. It strips her of her gender while punishing her for her gender, to even more extremes than the French women who slept with Germans, publicly humiliated by head shaving

after World War II because Cersei's entire body, and not just head, is shaved. Thus when Cersei says, I am not your mother, the meaning is multifaceted. She is proclaiming that she does not fit into any prescribed role set for women, and this statement foreshadows how the ways she tries to navigate her discomfort in female roles and gain power by capitalizing on her feminine charms also lead to her eventually becoming a degraded object of disgust and of objection. In the Walk of Atonement, she reflects on how she is now only a woman in the public's eyes, but her disfiguring

and ridiculing shaving pushes her past category of woman into object of abjection, of ridicule, of strangeness. That was an awesome, beautiful wrap up to our course in Rowan's school here, of Lesbology. But I really love what Rowan said, especially bringing up the French woman who slept with the Germans and just like they lay with wolves, right, where we look at Jamie and Brienne's chapters. With Cersei, I think this chapter is something that is so… It's kind of hard to stomach on reread and it comes back to I haven't read a sir see chapter for the point of reading a sir see chapter on its own in like six years probably seven years besides right now for this podcast so. Since we've been doing all in a row reading this on its own again and really just like isolating this chapter is so different than however my memory held it.

Still the same chapter, but just the tone is incredibly, I mean, it's horrible. It's terrible. It's horror. Most of this chapter is horror and like, honestly, very Tyrion-esque in a lot of ways of how she thinks and how sour and poisonous her thoughts are the entire time. Everything happening around her is horrible and terrible. It's a very intense chapter. George really deserves some roses on this chapter because on reread, I mean, I couldn't put it down. STACEY I'll probably come back to this later too. I also really like the point about the French

women who slept with Germans. Not just like, as you pointed out, the they lay with lions, but it's also reminiscent even that action of the they lay with lines of the maids, because we were talking about the Odyssey recently, the maids who are hanged by Odysseus for what? As though they had a choice but to sleep with Penelope's or to be abused by Penelope's suitors, right? And how that contrasts with Penelope's station as a highborn woman and having a nymph as a mother and not even fulfilling that end of it. And now that same thing can be done to her. I think of Shay as also kind of a ghost hanging over this chapter as we call out Lawless as well, because I think a lot of people think about Shay's reaction to that, to Lawless's rape, and then also how we can contrast that too.

Alright, well, here's our final Circe lightning round. What the fuck. What the fuck, Eliana. Well, it actually might not be. Like, in theory it's not, but like, for now it is. Sorry, that's what I meant. That's true. There could be many thirsty lightning rounds. There really could. In the winds of winter. There really could.

Look under your chairs. There it is. Alright, Oprah. The Queen's Guard. Daenerys' disappearance leaves Barristan surrounded by schemers in the east. The iron suitor, Makoro, heals Victarion, and Victarion makes for Meereen. Tyrion XI. Tyrion convinces Brown-Ban Plum to take him and Jorah into the Second Suns through a riveting game of Siv-oth. John XII. The free folk enter the realm. Cotter Pike writes there are dead things in the waters. The discarded knight. Your cause, so Jönsak's death brings Jönkish envoys to Meereen.

Beresund takes audience with the Dornish visitors. That was like a ten dollar sentence. You did really good. Thank you. It's important to me to be able to pronounce people's names right because a lot of people never pronounce my name right growing up. You're so right, alien. I really feel like you got the accent right on that. The spurned suitor, Quentin strikes a deal with the future Prince of Pinto's and plans to mount one of

Danny's dragons. Sounds like a great idea. the Mount one of Daniel's dragons. Sounds like a great idea. The griffon reborn, the Golden Company lands, and a plot is hatched with one change. Young Aegon plans to lead the assault on Storm's End himself. The sacrifice. Imprisoned by Stannis Baratheon, the tensions are rising in the mobile camp. They come upon two people in the snow. One who remembers his name. Victarion 1. Victarion shows an appreciation and respect for other religions and cultures. He shows Makoro, Dragonbinder.

I tried to give you the funny ones. Look at my Dragonbinder. Aria completes her first real kill and takes a new face. And that brings us here to Cersei, to Adawada. Cersei atones. With purple shampoo. Good for her. Thank you. A note from your showrunners.

This episode's quote heavy. This could not be mitigated due to the sheer overwhelming fact this chapter's a motherfucking banger. George outsold. He is incredible. Take as many years as you want, King. This chapter reminds me of that." On her final night in prison, Cersei can't sleep. She's dreading the next day. She should.

She recalls the riot when Marcella sailed for Dorne, wondering what the crowd might do to a queen. I always find it funny how much Lawless always makes her way into Cersei's thoughts. Like she was rent free in Cersei's head, her very ableist head. If that lump of flesh can entice a crowd, what would I? What would I? You know, she's fascinating. It's a constant comparison for her in this chapter, isn't it? Every single woman is just like, Oh, well, I instead and it's a yeah, very involved. It's it's it's what she's been taught.

It's an interesting call. Yeah, the need to kind of like, almost like put down Lawless or something in order to feel more like, Lawless has been through enough, you killed her sister and kind of led to the death of her brother in law-law. There's an interesting contrast in the way that ownership is exerted over women's bodies. That's kind of what happens in those riots. They are that rape and exertion of power over someone that they see as having had more than them during those riots. How then that like, how much more loss would a queen inspire? And then she's thinking about like that objectification and therefore the

valuation slash devaluation of her body in comparison to Lollis's. And you have this sort of like idea of purity versus sullying when it comes to the way that people perceive women's bodies, like, and like, the way that the rape acts upon Lollis, and then also how they're kind of using Cersei's body to be like, she's dirty, she's used up, or whatever, right? Yeah, and she's constantly reasserting her own value and trying to reinforce it in her head. If Lollis, as long as Lollis is always stupid and broken

and bad and wrong and ugly, then I am still worth something more. Like that value and that money value and like there's only so much room. Like every woman that's on the top corporately knows you only have so much space for a woman, so why not make sure the other woman can never come up that ladder? Right. These constant thoughts about comparing herself to other women and being like, okay, well, a queen will entice so much more. In a way, like, yeah, surface deep, that's her being arrogant, but really when you look at it, like, that is her armor because she is terrified. Like she's about to walk through the streets naked and the one way that she is, and I'll

get into it later, she's consoling herself by being like, I'm beautiful, I'm beautiful, I'm beautiful. Like yes, it's arrogance, but also it's protection, self-protection. There's an extent to which she's not wrong. When we think about, there's a quote we brought up a few chapters ago where Daenerys thinks that Daria would not want her if she were not a queen, right? And people are interested in this idea of we want the thing, literally when I say thing, I mean that word, the thing that is singular and allegedly has value as queen. So she's not wrong to an extent to think of it in those

terms. Yeah, because then what was the point of climbing there and holding that crown for all these years? What was the point? Restless. So clever to have seen it. Get out of here. Well struck. That was well struck, your grace. Restless. Cersei remembers her childhood dare with Jaime where they were going to see if you could touch a lion's rough tongue in Casterly Rock. I do this with my cats sometimes. Jamie was not brave enough to complete the dare, but she was, and she thinks, I should have had the sword, not him.

I haven't thought about it, but yeah, I guess lions would have the kind of rough tongue as cats. I also think sometimes about how I'd be allergic to big cats because it's all about the protein in the saliva. But anyways, um, have you seen it up close? Like the tongues, the big cat tongues up close? Oh, you gotta. Oh, I'm sending it to you right now. Oh, it's your new obsession. Get ready. Are they barb? Basically, I'll send it. I assume they look the same, right? Like kind of a Velcro-y the way that cat tongues do. Stabby. StABBY. Yeah. Just get ready. Murder tongue. The dangerous tongue. Oh my god. I do like this imagery, right, of her hand lingering by the lion and her kind of going,

tempting that danger. It makes me think of Margot bringing up last episode of the moth going towards the flame, right, and how that is very much Cersei's. Cersei's chapters. STACEY I love that recurring theme for her. And I also like that we've pulled out the lions here because just a couple Dany chapters ago, literally like, I think, two rounds of Dany before here. You have this passage. The battle was followed by the day's first ta'fali, a tilt between a pair of jousting dwarfs presented by one of the Yunkish lords Hisdar invited to the games. One rode a hound, the other a sow. Their wooden armor freshly painted, one bore the stag of the usurper, the other the lion of Lannister. That was for her sake, plainly. Their antics soon had

Belwas snorting laughter though Dany's smile was faint and forced. When the dwarf in red tumbled from the saddle and began to chase his sow across the sands, Wyls, the dwarf on the dog, yelled after him, whapping at his buttocks with a wooden sword. She said, "'This is sweet and silly, but—' "'Be patient, my sweet,' said Hisdar. "'They are about to loose the lions.' Daenerys gave him a quizzical look. Lions? Three of them. The dwarves will not expect them. So I love that we have the lions that were

capped three in Casterly Rock, but now you have lions here. I mean, I don't think they're the same lions, obviously. That would be crazy. Now that'd be crazy. It's impossible. But I love it because loosing the lions and you have Jamie going out right now in the Riverlands. Cersei, they fucked up because she's about to be loosed. She's about to be the loosest cannon in the entire fucking Seven Kingdoms. After this, I'd lose my fucking mind. I'd go crazy. I'd kill everyone. So I don't know. Cersei might be a better person than me is what I'm saying than I am. I'm actually gonna kind of make an argument that on the inside it's more unhinged, but on the outside she's actually really gonna get her shit together and get shit done. Oh, yeah. It's just gonna be quiet murder. We'll talk about it later. Quiet murder. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now this would motivate me too. And I really like this call of the parallels between what's

happening with Tyrion because I mean, as you were saying, Alicia, like they, Tyrion and Cersei have so much in common. Like she's been imprisoned, he's been imprisoned a lot. Like a lot of like their circumstances actually very much mirror one another. I guess Jaime's been imprisoned too, but that was different. It's not the same. It's really not. He didn't go to trial. He's the golden child. I mean, it was kind of sexy when he was in... Just kidding. I'm sorry. Just kidding. I mean, it actually was, but like... All that thinking matter just gets me going too.

It was Catlin Stark. It's Catlin Stark gets everyone going. Conjectively speaking. But yeah, Tyrion facing the lions and also being the one who has to fight against the odds in the Blackwater. Both of them are the ones who have to hold the fucking city during the Blackwater and everything and be brave in those moments. Rulers set aside after they sacrifice everything for their city. Barefoot and shivering, Cersei paces, distrusting Kevin and the High Sparrow, fearing the faith will judge her like Margaery. Her only hope,

she decides, is trial by battle. But with Jaime missing, her accusers are ready to charge her with treason, it turns out. I just like this one line where it goes, like her uncle said it was the only way to save herself. Was it though? And I just feel like that's something I like I tell people like is it? Was it though? Someone said that. I feel like is it? We have this line up. She had to reach Tommen no matter the cost. He loves me. He will not refuse his own mother. Joff was stubborn and unpredictable, but Tommen is a good little boy, a good little king. He will do as he is told. The only way home to the Red Keep is by doing the walk, allegedly. The High Sparrow said so, and Kevin refused to lift a finger against him.

Yeah. Wink wink. The High Sparrow. Who totally came up with this idea on his own. It's a carbon copy of a Lannister move. But you know, okay. He's such a fucker. And I find it interesting that like, we don't know whether or not she for certain puts those two together because her mind is clearly on other things right now. Like through her point of view, she never comes out and has the thought like, no bullshit, this was Kevin's decision. And I don't think it's because she can't put two and two together. She's just really got a lot of I think she could she knows to an extent. I think she's probably figuring it out. But like

also simultaneously, I don't think that she could ever think of Kevin committing a crime against the Lannisters, if that makes sense, right? Like, that is true. She thinks, A, that he's too weak to do that, and that she understands him fully. Kind of like her issues with Harris Swift, right? Where she like is like, Oh, well, Harris will do X, Y, Z, because he will because he's, yeah, chinless and familial. But no, just because you're, you know, you have Dorna who married Kevin who, by the way, he stole her, quote unquote. Like, hmm. Hmm.

Is it Kevin she refers to as a loyal master? Yeah. Yeah. So that's how, yeah. That's really the big thing. She just doesn't understand that he could betray her. Yeah. There's a lot of ways that men will play into misogyny that actually hurt them in themselves

without realizing, or maybe they do realize. I believe Paris Paloma refers to it as weaponizing false incompetence. Paris Paloma! I have Paris Paloma on my Circe playlist. Oh, maybe I should post the Circe playlist up. Maybe it's time for both of the kids. It's last episode. Oh, you still got those playlists going

Is this a 2016 callback it might be 2016. Yeah, I started some of these in 2015, dude We've been friends a long time this one is from 2016 is the first time I started it I got a good memory. This could be the time. It'd be cool if it was 2015 because that'd be 10 years, you know? I know. Well, a couple of my other plays are from 2015. Yeah, we'll stop saying it. Okay, sorry. Yeah, we have though, but stop saying it. I'm 28. Yeah, exactly. We have another quote, surprisingly. I bet you didn't see that coming.

No harm will come to me today, Cersei said when the day's first light brushed her window. Only my pride will suffer. The words rang hollow in her ears. Jaime may yet come. She pictured him riding through the morning mists, his golden armor bright in the light of the rising sun. Jamie, if you ever loved me. Her jailers come, led by Unela, Moelle, and Scolera, with the Silent Sisters behind them. She wonders if the Silent Sisters have come for her death. She declares the sept and promised no harm. And Unela says, well, no harm's coming to you, so settle down. They wash her in lye soap and razor her hair off. Which this is just big Aslan and Narnia vibes.

Oh, the mess, yeah. That's interesting. Also side thought, until Elden Ring came out, I totally read that word jailer as gowler. And now you know my shame moving along. I think I learned it from Lady Gwyn maybe or like someone else in like, and I learned it from Eliana, SWAF mods or something. One of them told me it's pronounced jailer. I was like, wow. Okay, so I'm not the only one. Listen, listen, like to me, Lady Gwyn is Bible. So we're Yeah, exactly. What she says

when Eliana told me that and she was like, I think it was Lady Gwyn or a Reddit mod that told me that this is years ago, like 2018. Now I was like, all right, I trust you. And pretty much since that day, I trust Eliana. So if I say something wrong, and then sometimes I'm like, damn it, Eliana. Well, clearly, I don't always know. I'm like, is it Jean Rojean for this actor? I'm like, I don't know. What if? Hear me out. Hear me out. What if it's both? Wow. Nothing's real. I was talking about Jayler and Gowler.

Oh, oh. Well, I liked the idea of Gowler back then because I was like, is it related to Gowl? You know, the old name for fans, but turns out not. And like, just spell it one way. Turns out it's more an answer and we're just, we're just illiterate. Yeah. Well, it's like, just spell it one way. Come on now. Well, okay. It's just, we don't, maybe we just do it better, right? Like you don't need a random letter U in the words color or harbor. Or name. Yeah.

Or let me think about the words. We simplified it. Yes. think about the word neighbor. Just like switching up the metric system. Yeah. Yeah. Remix just like the Barristan chapters. Kingdom hearts. GDC remix coming to your ears soon.

All the hits, all the hits, all the hits. We have another quote. They mean to shave me, a little more humiliation, a raisin for my porridge. She would not give them the pleasure of hearing her beg. I am Cersei of House Lannister, a lion of the rock, the rightful queen of the seven kingdoms, trueborn daughter of Tywin Lannister, and hair grows back. My crown, the queen thought, they took the other crown away from me, and now they are stealing this one as well. Harkening back to some of what Rowan said in her email, the focus on Cersei's hair is really, really, it is sadness, especially as someone who stopped cutting her hair, so now I have beautiful long locks. That's my riches too as a woman, you know, my long hair. I would be devastated if I had to shave my hair as penance for everything

I've done. Oh God, it would be terrible. So I had this beautiful book of little medieval hairstyles that I got a long time ago, of hairstyles actually through the ages. It's like not just medieval. Back in the cosmetology days, over a decade ago. And I love the way actual hair throughout the Middle Ages and especially 13th to 16th century, there's so much evolution in hairstyles. And you can see a lot of it if you watch House of the Dragon, they're playing with a lot of those styles. Like Raniera, for example, has a ram's horn braid built up often where she has it slightly coming over her ears and over her long hair. Or cornets where braids and buns are piled up high like Cersei in Game of Thrones, right, with her big Danish pastry hair. And if you were a working woman, your hair would have been out of the way,

right? Either back in a bun or back in a ponytail or back with a veil on it, or some sort of fabric to keep it out of the way. But if you're rich, like you're gumball, you're going to met Gala all day long. So they even had, I think you guys would probably remember a little bit from history, but the plucked hairlines, right? Like a five head was in the bigger the forehead, the better like it was I think it was supposed to also be like, holy in a way. But yeah, five, put them up. Are they there? Then you're cool. If not, you need to pluck that hairline. You need to pluck your brows. I'm not kidding. Like that is real.

I'm imagining waxing. It was a sign of inbreeding, which of course was a sign of no girl. Yeah, exactly. I'm just like imagining people like putting Oh my god, that must be so painful, especially if your hair is longer, like, you know, a wax, you know. Yeah, dilapidatory. And they did have wax, I guess they could do it. Yeah, no, you had to pluck them.

No, plucking is worse. I'm sorry. Yeah, it is, but they did. It's so painful. Anyways. In the 15th century, they started like adorning hair with jewels and gems, right? Which we know Cersei does all the time. She likes to do the rubies and the hair wigs and fake hair pieces and the ever encroaching, ever encroaching like religious movement, right? Would say that this is not right. This binary is ostentatious, it's bad, and fight back against that and saying cover it in a veil and it should be clean and respectful.

You start to see in history this kind of pattern of painting here as defiance, painting it as literal gold, as currency. In Corinthians from 11, like four through eight, you have Paul, who's a bullshitter. Everything Paul says sometimes, I'm like, okay, Paul. He talks about – I agree. Like, fuck this guy. He's talking about proper social context for Greco-Romans at the time.

And you have, every man who prays or prophecies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every wife who prays or prophecies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off. But it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved. Then she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man." There

it is. There it is, Paul. That part, that part, that part. Woman is the glory of man. So at this time, when Paul, if we can even call him that, when Paul wrote these things. Saul, Paul. Well, are we going to dead name Paul Saul? At this time, a woman wearing a hair covering would usually be married. Displaying modesty, submission to her husband, not doing so would dishonor her husband, where the new dynamic brewing in Roman times were wives who were defiant, right? Who would remove their veils, who were putting ornament in their hair, being bold, engaging in promiscuity. My kind of girls, is what I'm trying to say. Cersei especially having been a kept woman, a figure of the kingdom, a queen, a role, a title, a person, like Eliana said, like a thing, a trophy put

up on the shelf. That is what she was having that title. And obviously the faith is a little mad that maybe the Lannisters are a little bit bold and showy sometimes with it, right? Cersei with the rubies sewn into her hair and into her dress. I think she slays all day. I think she's giving clean cunt, but like, the faith is like, the people of Flea Bottom are literally eating body parts. So I'm like, there is a disconnect there, girlfriend. But I mean, I think it's sleigh all day. But it kind of starts to show you by them removing her hair and then committing this against her. She has nothing but walking left and

her defiance. And this is her pride. This is but walking left and her defiance. This is her pride. This is something that she's used as protection for social protection and for rank, for living in the society. It's gone, her pride. That was just good. That's all I'm going to say. Thanks, babe. That was really good. Thank you. Thank you.

That she could have such nice hair, right? Like, that's also part of the rank, that you can keep it clean, brush it. Not just put it back. Yeah, my hair is very long right now, and it's mostly damaged. Sometimes Chloe cuts my hair, everyone. That's, that's, no, it's not a joke. It's real. She's cut my hair at least twice. We're an intimate podcast. Do you remember back in like, we keep talking about 2018. It was such a wonderful year. Do you remember, do you remember when my hair was like super long and then 2019 ended up being the stressful year for me and I had to chop it all off and I, there are just no

words for the emotions of having to. It's like, I felt so, and some of my friends were making fun of me. They're like, it's just hair. And it's like, it's not just hair. Because one thing I will say it's been five years. Because it was the end of 2019 when I chopped it all off. Like I have biracial curly hair. It doesn't just grow back in the same linear way people think. Like with curls, you grow an inch, but it curls like half an inch. And then you grow some more and in the midst of that growing, some of it gets damaged. You got to cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Sometimes it really does feel like the glory days of my crown were just, it was humbling. It was

humbling. I'll tell you that. So listen, they're certainly succeeding there. Yeah. Cersei, she like give her more credit with how composed she was about losing all of her hair. Like y'all are giving her credit, but there are people out there that might scoff at that. And it's like, no, this is a real thing. Like there's a reason I don't like, like for instance, like I'm a dean at a middle school. When kids chop each other's hair off, that is, we don't put assault, I don't put assault in their permanent school record, because I'm not going to do them like that. But essentially, like, when they get older, and they do stuff like that, it's considered a form of assault. And it's that way for a reason.

and they do stuff like that. It's considered a form of assault. And it's that way for a reason. It is. Well, it's a part of someone's identity, right? It's how you show up every single day. I know someone that she actually hid it for a while, that all of her hair had fallen out. She had gotten one of those, what are these, the birth control vaccine, not vaccines. What are these called? Birth control shot. Yeah, yeah. One of the birth control shots and she had an adverse reaction. All of her hair fell out. She was hiding it for a while. And then finally, eventually, it was very courageous of her to go out there and show that she didn't

have it. But it's hard, right? That's a big part of when people go through, for example, chemotherapy. It's terrifying to watch this thing that you associate with yourself, with your health, just all like fall out and be taken from you. There's also a reason why like when people go through big change, they also will sometimes see like themselves cutting their hair. It's a big part of like one sense of self. Did you know that hair holds on to trauma? I did not know that. I know it holds on to like, they use it for like tests for, I don't know, substances, but interesting. Maybe is that why my hair's not anyways?

It's so damaged just like me. It's so damaged just like me. Um, so no, no, no. First of all, first of all, we speak highly of ourselves in this house. Okay. Since I have come into the house, I've come into the house, new house rules. We speak life into ourselves in this house. Listen, not the affirmation part of the podcast. No, no, no, do not.

We do not self deprecate with Alicia around. Just saying. You are, you are just, you're beautiful. I gotta see how many more I can get in under the gun here. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of people and hair, I'm about to, seriously, I'm gonna be so excited about me doing this.

I think I'm going to liken her to this man from the Bible. He's really brawny, known for his physical strength. It's Samson. His hair, speaking of like, his hair was tied, his strength was tied to his hair, right? He, like Cersei, is betrayed by a lover and that strips him. His hair is shorn off. He's stripped of his strength. Cersei is betrayed by a lover and that strips him. His hair is shorn off. He's stripped of his strength. Cersei was betrayed by a lot of lovers in multiple different ways. Going through this public humiliation as Samson was, right, paraded around, shown as weak. And then after regaining his strength as his hair grows back, what he does is he tears down the temple, right?

And you know, I kind of, I think that the way the show went about Cersei blowing up the Sept was pretty stupid because there was no really like any sort of blowback when it comes to this big like religious symbol. But I didn't really think of her as tearing down the Sept, but now I'm like, maybe she fucking does like in regards to parallels with Samson, because I think there's quite a bit there. And then they also describe her as being shorn, like a sheep, or she thinks of herself as like shorn, like a sheep.

And we're talking about religion, there's that aspect of sheep that is very much tied to religion, and the lambs and the following of the Lord, right? But also sheep is kind of how the Lannisters think of the poor's as they would probably say and like, we have that line of time and going a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of sheep. I'm like, well, they're about to try and

turn your daughter into a fucking sheep. Hmm. And I love that you bring that up too, because not just sheep, but we're spending a lot of time in King's Landing today. And there's a character that we all know that seems to take care of the sheep that is popular in King's Landing during the Dance of the Dragons, right? The Shepherd. The Riots, yeah. Yup.

Right around a time where it's about to get bad. I'm so bad we're making all these correlations. Riots. Yeah. Yup. Right around a time where it's about to get bad. I'm so bad. We're making all these correlations. I'm just listening. We are on the same page. Those riots. Go be... And what's to come.

Lots coming. And of course, the Sack of Kings landing too. There's a lot going on that I think will be coming back there. They have Cersei remove her shift. They razor her armpit hair, her leg hair and her pubes. Yes, I just want to caveat it's totally violating but also like it's so much work that part of me is like, if this were a better circumstance, I'd tip.

I was actually thinking that was interesting. The legs like and above the knee. Thank you. However, it's not comfortable. It's a bad time. She thinks of Jamie's kisses, which were once warm at her thighs, but this feels cold, ice cold from the razor. It is a lot of work, I'm just saying. It's a lot of work and also for them to not to not nick her during that. That's pretty impressive, especially like the pubic area is very complicated and yes it is there's a lot of curves going on well it's curves and like also sensitive right um and folds and like i that's actually even more humiliating like

to remove that like that leaves you so vulnerable and bare. This isn't at all what this situation is like, but the idea of the Razor being ice cold makes me think of just the end of this book, right? And Jon only feeling the cold of the fourth knife. Yeah, the language is definitely there. It's scattered throughout all these chapters, I feel like. Good call. We have this line of, when the deed was done, she was as naked and vulnerable as a woman could be. Not even a hair to hide behind. A little laugh burst from her lips, bleak and bitter. Does your grace find this amusing? No, Scepta. But one day, I will have your tongue ripped out with hot pincers and that will

be hilarious. When I did my reread, right now I'm in my cross stitching era, so I've been listening to audiobooks and I kind of noticed like Roy Dautrice uses the exact same accent for Tyrion and Cersei and Jaime. Like, you know, this like he uses the same little lilt, but anyway, when you're reading it though for yourself, out of context, like one thing I really love about Cersei's inner witticisms is that out of context, it could really easily be like a Tyrion or a Jaime quote. And I love that Lannister dark sense of humor that they all share as much as their dad really doesn't like laughter.

It's just another for me, another nail in the coffin that, yes, solidified. Cersei and Tyrion are pretty much kind of the same person, just different experiences. They both were looked at as less than people for different reasons. Cersei because she came out with a vagina, Tyrion because he came out as himself. Yes. And just the roles that were put on them and they think the same way, you know, and we'll get to it later. But my thoughts on they have aspects of Tywin that they definitely embody and there are things that hold them back from being as efficient.

Yeah, Tywin got to have like all of those senses of privilege. And like, I really like how you've called out their little snide remarks and their inner monologue. And sure, Jamie has it too. But like, when it comes to Circe and Tyree and doing it, they can't always voice their thoughts. They don't have the power to always just be as honest as they want because society doesn't grant them that. And it makes me think of even like, Sansa, right? Who's growing up in a similar position surrounded by lions in King's Landing. And she's like, or in her head, she's like, or maybe my brother will deliver me yours or blah, blah, blah. She has all these like little, those little defiances internally as well,

same as Cersei. And it's something you kind of have to do to keep your sense of self and sanity. Now that you mention it, I didn't think about it. Yeah, those two have those thoughts inside their head. And Jamie just says them out loud. Because when you think about it, he's the only one that has the privilege to say exactly because he says it never in his head. He says it out loud. I didn't think about that. You're right. Yeah. But when Cersei does it, it's all like really super like spoiled and mean in her head. But when Jaime does it, it's just funny.

To be fair, to be fair. I don't agree. But she's had a really hard life. She's having a she's about to have a harder life like right here, by the way. It's pretty hard right now. It's not good. Diva down. Diva is very down. Diva is so way. It's pretty hard right now. It's about to get D.Va down.

D.Va is very down in this chapter. She's so down. We knew it was coming. We've called it out that the D.Va's going down, but D.Va down hard. A novice gives Cersei a white robe to cover her. She thinks the worshipers are hypocrites and she asks if she'll get sandals

because the streets are fucking filthy. Moelle says the streets aren't as dirty as her sins, and she's like, did you have sandals when you were born? I was like, we didn't do scat. Sorry. Cersei's like, nah. And Moelle's like, well, there's your fucking answer. No. No sandals. About Toll's, Cersei tightens the rope thinking of her son across the city. She came to the Septic Queen, but she's leaving bald and

barefoot, deep down, yet still leaving, all the same. Passing the Faithful, and where Tywin had died, or at least been laid to rest, she reaches the Hall of Lamps, where Theoden the True is kneeling, promising to escort her safely through the city. So a couple of thoughts here regarding the sandals. First of all, it seems painful and uncomfortable to walk on the cold marble already, and then it's going to get even worse with the cold cobblestones and then her being naked and it's autumn. It's fucking cold. It's terrible. But also now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like dang they really just like they're putting her naked feet out there for free, right? Like I'm thinking you got to have the black bar over it right like you got compare her to Jesus, but like, are you

good? I'm like, this is Jesus too. I am going to actually- Cersei Wept. I want to compare her to biblical men all over her. She would be so happy. Not to call her Jesus, but- I just got Lady Gaga's. Thank you, girls.

Yes. Yes. All the language of the bells of the sept ringing, kind of keeping time throughout this chapter. I wonder if it's going to be a sort of PTSD for Cersei as it probably is for like, John Connington. Not the last time we'll hear these bells. Yeah. I definitely, those bells are coming back. I don't know because we shall not speak of the really horribly done like fan fiction that was season seven and eight of Game of Thrones. But you know how George kind of told

them things and they haphazardly like threw things together. I kind of wonder if you mentioned something about the bells and they were like, yeah, bells, Daenerys, mass slaughter for no reason because, you know, Jon Snow did not give penis, you know, I think the bells are going to be recurring. I wonder if that's going to happen. I wonder. Yeah. I wonder if the bells will have significance, but you know, the show just didn't, they put it in there knowing they're important, but they just didn't deliver very gracefully. I also think there's like something interesting in like when bells are used, right? So I think of like when Sansa was born, they rang the bells, right? Or like when Robert died, they rang the bells. When Robert died, they did that. Like, so I just think like, you know,

or like all these different reasons for ringing the bells. And I think they could be something happening in each of these plots, right? Cersei obviously has it for this. John Connington probably will have it. Probably the Faith will ring bells when coordinating Aegon, right? And Dany will not be facing Cersei. Dany will probably be facing Aegon. So you just don't know who's going to have the bells going on. Well, the bells are so prominent in her chapters and yeah, like the one that comes to the top of my head is clearly something bothered her because remember when Kyburn kind of read her thoughts and he's like, the bells will stop. The bells. Oh, yeah. Interesting. You

know. Yeah, that's true. Because like what it probably would have been happening at her wedding as well. And then like for her son, but also like I'm thinking like it would operate a little differently anyways, and like Daenerys's chapters like bells do play a role but they're tiny bells right woven through the hairs of the Dothraki so it would it there's like definitely some sort of through line there but I don't know how it's gonna like work. Yeah. It'll be like operate a little differently. It's one of those things and I'm the queen of it I'll be like, I have a theory point

a to point B, I just have point B, I don't know the mechanics of how we're getting from point A to point B, but you mark my damn words. We're getting there. I feel that. I'm the same. I'm like, yeah, I don't really know. And I'll always be like, I haven't really thought this through, but I'm going to just get two words together. And like all of you can just be like, wow, yeah, the words they go together. I'm like, yes. Right. Like your great declaration of qualification is I have a gut. It's Spidey senses, you know, like you're like, Oh, I know there's something here. And I it's all vibes based theory theory crafting. I'm a vibes based theory crafter.

We're a Pisces moon. I'm a Pisces sun. We're all about the vibes. I like to quote a philosopher of our time, Detective Pikachu. Oh, my god. I feel it in my jellies. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Circe's gaze swept across the faces of the men behind him. And there he was, Lancel, her cousin, Sir Kevin's son who had once professed love to her.

Before he decided he loved the gods more. My blood and my betrayer. She would not forget him. Rip Lancel, that betrayer. She would not forget him. Rip Lancel that right there. She would not forget him. Oh, oh, you're fucked buddy. You're dead and T wow. It's over for your bitch ass. You're dead. Thank God your bitch father is dead because she would have killed him too. I mean, dead motherfucker. It's a total kill Bill vibe. Like remember every time Uma Thurman walks into a room and she sees somebody that like fucked her over in the past and you just hear those sirens going

bells. And then you just hear bells. Her sight goes red and all of a sudden she just starts chopping limbs off with katanas. It's giving Kill Bill. I think Lena Headey was amazing as Circe, but also I've not thought of Uma Thurman as Circe and I didn't know not thought of Uma Thurman as Circe. And I didn't, I didn't know I could. You know what? I didn't know. It could, you know what?

I didn't hear. Oh yeah, the utter defiance in her face too, like. Yeah. Oh my god. I love Uma Thurman. Me too. She would play an amazing, she would play an amazing, deliciously. She will be, yeah. This is interesting.

Wiggle your big toe. Okay. Pussy wagon reference, kill belt. Okay. No, no, no, I got it. I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I can see, I can see the vibe is there. It's there. Yeah. This line of my blood and my betrayer about Lancel and I'm just like, dang, is there anything about Jamie that she won't project onto Lancel? Like, dang. No. That's her MO. She's trying to give him some credit, okay? She's trying to. But he just keeps giving her the ick. You know, she's trying.

Like, that's Jamie. What happens when you fuck your cousin? And brother? Yeah. Keep it in family. What if we just stop? The sad part is like, fucking your cousin back then was like super acceptable. So within the context of morality of this story, it's like, oh, the sad part is like, you know, the lamso thing wouldn't have been as frowned upon if there wasn't, you know, like, adultery, quote unquote, treason. STACEY If he was older and also, I don't know, it's

also just like, it's less genetically bad. STACEY Yeah, no, morality-wise, not right to groom and fuck your younger cousin. STACEY Even genetically, I'm like, it's actually less dangerous to fuck. STACEY I play a lot of Crusader. Even genetically, I'm like, it's actually less dangerous to fuck. I play a lot of Crusader Kings 3, so I'm like, it's not that bad. You're like, I've done all I've made a lot of people fuck their siblings in Crusader Kings 3.

I've gotten way worse. Actually, they do it against my will sometimes too, okay? Like, it's not all me. My god. I love Game of Thrones Barbies, CK3 Agathe. Uh, my god. As my lovely co hosts are constantly pointing out whenever I'm like, you guys, they're like, well, he's not my uncle. Exactly.

It is the mantra of DWC Thurstein. Well, he's not my uncle. Respect. Ew. Cersei allows Theoden to rise and she declares herself ready, stepping out into the light and stench of King's Landing. Sour wine, baking bread, rotting fish, night soil, smoke, sweat, horse piss. No flower had ever smelled so sweet. That's so real. Getting home when you live in a city that maybe might not have a favorable smell

and smells like shit and piss in certain areas. Sometimes there is no better smell than home, though. You know? When you've gone away. She walks, memories flood back, she pauses at the spot where Ned Stark was executed, reflecting on how his death defied her plans. She had hoped for a Lannister marriage, a good marriage for Sansa, perhaps to Lancel or one of his brothers. Though Littlefinger had also offered himself surprise surprise, she deemed him too low-born for the task. It was just there, the Queen recalled, gazing at the spot. Jannos Slint had lifted Ned Stark's head by the hair as his life's blood flowed down the steps, and after that

there was no turning back. The memories seemed so distant. Joffrey was dead, and all Stark's sons as well, but for one. Even her father had perished. Well, two, yeah, Rickon, but how long's that gonna last? Even her father had perished. I'm just kidding. I think he lived. She stood on the steps of the Great sept again, only this time it was her the mob was staring at, not at her Stark. There's a lot, I guess, similar with her and Ned in this chapter. But yeah, I guess this was one of her biggest first plans to go wrong. I didn't realize that. Like, you know, she

had this like really like well laid plan in regards to what would go would happen to Ned that went wrong. And, you know, it makes me think of like, she has a lot of thoughts here of Tommen as someone who must listen to her when Joffrey had not. And I do I do really wish I know that actually Cer seriously was one of the parts where George had the hardest time being like, what if we had a five year gap and having to lay out all the hijinks that would have happened during those five years. But knowing that Tommen would have been the same age as Joffrey, I've said this multiple times throughout the past few chapters, but let me like be sad about it one last time. It would have been so interesting to contrast him

being the same age as Joffrey had we had that five-year gap. Yeah, I think that would be so not great, but like after this to open up on Tom and being that five years later. I mean, again, D&D don't got to hand it to them, but at least they had a little age up on some of these characters that helped a little to be able to really bring in some of those themes that they didn't use at all. Cersei sees eyes everywhere, men, women, children, beggars, thieves, taverners, tradesfolk, tanners, stable boys, mummers, sex workers, all of them there to witness her fall. Among them

are the poor fellows, the High Sparrow's followers, part of her hopes she'll see Jaime or Cavan, but neither appears. JG So one thing I kind of found interesting is how much this, not this scene in particular, but when it talks about, you know, everywhere she saw eyes or eyes everywhere, we can agree, you know, the cat's out of the bag before getting further down the notes, you know, like, we definitely think there's going to be a riot that's reminiscent of the one in the dance of the dragons. Yeah. In gas. Tyrion in Clash of Kings, when he's riding along King's Landing, he has that same thought like, oh, there were eyes everywhere that were watching him and it's in relation to

unrest and how they're about to turn the fuck up, essentially. So I definitely think it's in relation to unrest and how they're about to turn the fuck up, essentially. So I definitely think it's kind of like another foreshadow of what's to come, which is I'm convinced what pushes her out of King's Landing and toward Cast Early Rock, but we'll get to that. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. I also like, I don't know, they have some of it of being like Thousand Eyes. I'm like, oh, Blood Raven's watching.

Yeah. He's just like, oh, a show. I haven't seen something interesting in so long. No, there's been a lot of interesting things for him to watch lately. Hey, there was mist before that in the morning. Could be. And he was like, ooh, I'm here. So messy, Blood Raven. God. We have this line of, Sir Kevin had made his views plain during his last visit. Her shame must not be allowed to tarnish the honor of Casterly Rock. No lions would walk with her today. This ordeal was hers and hers alone. When I catch him, I swear to God, in the seven hells, when I chase his ass down,

his pussy ass, motherfucking bitch ass down,. He is what is that shit? What coward? He is such a coward. He is so like, Tywin's not great. He's a bad man, but he's a powerful man. And Kevin, you don't got it. He doesn't got the moxie. He doesn't got it. No. And I'm sorry, but like, what logic is this? I get you want stability control, but as we get in his chapter, you know, it's not necessarily he's still doing it because he wants to do it. He's not doing it. He's doing it because he thinks the realm needs it. But like, then this does destabilize the you could do a slow, slow burn here. Not all like this is basically me. I mean, we'll never have a female president again. Oh my god. I honestly think he's doing it because he's being spiteful for Circe quote unquote ruining oneself. Interesting. I do think there's an aspect of it. He's so salty about that. Yeah. Yeah, it's punishing her. No, it's directly punishing her. Yeah, it's punishing. Yeah, it's him both trying to be quote unquote pragmatic, which it's not. And trying to put his into it because you know, like, and here's the

thing, here's where we might be a bit divided here. Like I hold the opinion that ain't no goddamn way that Thailand would have ever allowed the faith militant to be weaponized again. But let's just say they had the weapons again, they took Cersei with Tywin there, he would have figured out a different way. He would have never let them parade his daughter like that. Is he a good dad? No. But for his image, his legacy, he never. No, big agree. He never would have allowed that. I agree with all that. And that like, I I agree like there's an aspect of him like getting

a little revenge about Lancel in regards to Kevin but also like when it comes to Tywin, I also agree that he would never let the faith militant arm like that but I think there's also the aspect of like Tywin would have never been in a position where he had to rely on a faith militant as a military force. No other Lord of any castle. And like to an extent, Circe is like the lady of of Casterly Rock and has this power would never be in a position where they have to rely on a different military force because they get to call on it as the man of the house.

Yeah, absolutely. Which she was in a difficult position. Not just the spite, right? The spite angle with Kevin, but I think also there's part of him that knows that what his big bad brother does isn't always right, too. And I think there's part of him that thinks that the Lannisters have done harm. Yeah, that's true. Do you think maybe in a way it's like, this is me atoning myself for what we've done. I don't know. I haven't like thought about that.

I haven't thought about him enough in that way, but like there's that or like, is it a weird like self-destructive element? Mm hmm. That too. Like, this is too much power. We shouldn't steal Midas's golden touch. You know, we should leave that. Like the ring was too much for a man. That is interesting. I don't know. Maybe Kevin does think that like, Yeah, I don't know. Right?

I never thought of it that way. Like, I guess I always, I've always viewed Kevin as when I first started reading them, I'm like, Oh, Kevin's a decent dude. And then I'm like, well, no, because he's carried out these really horrible things. And I think it's one of those things. It's like, uh, he's decent, but he's still seeing, you know, the fires of hell. You know, when it's all, it's like George's whole thing, you know, like, you know, the question of morality, all that other stuff. Like, um, yeah, I can see him. Like I said, I think it was like, what he thought was pragmatic. And I do think there's a possibility that his pettiness was a subconscious choice. I don't think he's the kind of person that would ever admit that he put malice into a decision. That's interesting, too. That's true. He's a little brother, like for real, for real through and through.

That's for sure. Because we know so much about it. I know through other little brothers is what I've learned. Okay, listen, listen. As the lady with who is not an only child on this podcast, I will say, and I am the youngest. Well, it's hard to equate because, you know, I was never expected to. Yeah, I don't know. There was a lot of hero worship as a little sister.

Like there was, you know, it wasn't that it's like outside of the scope of being a sister, I could definitely think for myself in my own personal life. But as a little sister, in my younger years, there was this sense of hero worship where I absolutely did not question. And I think as I got older, you have to consciously unpack that it's not something that just happens naturally. And that really depends on your relationship to your sibling. You know, like, and typically, typically, not everybody has a fantastic relationship with their siblings. Some of them are estranged. But there is sort of my, my personal experience, I can understand how Kevin looks

at Taiwan, despite the things Taiwan has done and just been like, you know, because because Taiwan's even said at one point, like, yeah, our dad just about ruined us and typhoon for better or worse, like he put us on the map, like across the world, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, I can see it. And I just thank God, I'm not in a medieval position to ever have to test the theory that I would make better decisions than Kevin Lannister as a young person. That's true. I haven't considered that, but you're right. I don't think I would have made this specific decision for what it's worth.

Yeah. Even Gemma, you can't tell her shit about Tywin Lannister. That is big brother. Pure worship. Thailand land. That's true. That is big brother. You cannot guess. It's just very, you know, and with Taiwan, I think that with the exception of Taiwan, you know, like, we don't know much about Gary and Jerrian and is it Tyga? Yeah, I think by, yeah, Tigget, Tyga, I go Tigget because I think of Tigger. Tytos loved his kids love and Kevin pointed that out to Cersei when he was like, a yo, no, no, no, no, don't get it twisted. Like, my father didn't forget me when he passed away. Like, I've got resources to take you the fuck out if you come from my throat. Best below. Yeah, you know, like Tito's loved his kids. It's just that he really let other people walk all over him.

Like he was a very loving man, but Tywin's point of view, he's like, do you see where love gets you? It gets you ruined. I cannot love anything except for my wife. Who died? You know. Oh, who died? Who died? Yeah. You know.

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting too, because like even though we don't know anything about those two siblings still of his besides like, Jerians probably, maybe the Tyrian of them and the prophecy obsessed of those siblings, or maybe the history obsessed and magic obsessed. And then also that both of them got the fuck away from Tywin. That is something by admission. You're like, oh, that you can know about them. Yeah. And it's like they were taught, they were taught love, you know, like they were taught affectionate. But the thing is, like, because I'm not an oldest sibling, I don't understand things

from the scope of like, we all know, Taiwan is bad, like, just just preface this at no point am I trying to justify anything this man does. But he does in his mind what he has to do for his family, even if that means completely alienating himself from his own family. And I don't know if he necessarily does it for their better being, or he's just like that narcissistic and arrogant

that it's like, this is about me and my image. Like maybe a little bit of column A a little bit of column B but like he could not afford to be the sibling that's all like tra la la rainbow sunshine we all love each other all this other stuff he's like I'm a single mom that works two jobs he is a single dad. At least. Yeah. Well, you see where like, Cersei copies that and where her children sometimes there's the uncharitable view that her children are extensions of herself. But there's also like, she can compartmentalize as that part of herself, right? And he has done the same. He's compartmentalized what his

children are to him, and how they gain him the things that keep House Lannister the house that he wants it to be. So it's interesting that kind of compartmentalization of the children and like how they're used and when he uses them and that withholding nature and how that makes them more, you know, like dogs, you know, like Roman Roy in the cage and succession. Okay, like I mean bore on the floor That's yeah, that's daddy tywin Logan Roy Lannister. He's withholding. He gives love as a reward. Sometimes it's conditional and It's when he makes up the rules of conditionality yeah, and that's where you have to like take a step back and

Realize about Cersei that like everything she is is exactly what Tywin created, whether he meant to mold it that way or not. Because it's just so sad to hear like, he gives her crumbs. He gives her crumbs of his affection. Like when you think back on her chapters, like the greatest moment of affection that she still kind of puts on a pedestal in her mind is that secret smile. You know, like not hugs, not like, oh, you're so great. Oh, it's a secret. It's a secret smile. And she's like, yes, King, give me absolutely nothing. Literally. So it just kind of like, yeah, so as much as we can sit there and be like, oh, that is so fucking gross that, you know, Jane and it is, it's fucking gross. But given the circumstances

within the context of this fake medieval world, it's like psychologically, not that I'm the expert like, okay, like Jamie and Cersei proximity, neither of them are getting love. They both deeply hunger love, not just Tyrion. And as much as like Tyrion, he goes to sex workers, and he's called a Cretan and this this and that. Meanwhile, your two other kids, yeah, they might not be going to sex workers. They're going to each other because you leave these children so hungry for affection. What did you think was going to happen? They found validation where it was available, when it was available. And he gives us so little attention he doesn't even notice it.

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is like, this happened when Joanne was even alive. And it's like, I don't know what the scope of her motherhood was like. But at the same time, it's like, you can have one really fantastic parent that does everything right. But when the other parent is absent because of circumstance, because of choice, or just is emotionally unavailable, it's still enough to fuck up a kid's shit. Yeah, that was incredible. I hadn't even thought about all of those. And I think, dang, it's

good that we have you here for this final Seriously chapter. I really am thinking that. And I also am like, I'm just, I'm not qualified. And like, so I think having that insight as well on like those family dynamics was like really important for being able to understand more fully, you know, Cersei's chapters. Their loneliness. As far as the whole siblings go, they seem from the outset, like so vastly different from one another, but really they're all like, you know, imagine that Taiwan is Naraku and they're like Kagura and all the other extensions and manifestate in incarnations. That's what they're called incarnations of him. Like they all have taken something from

Taiwan that they apply in life, whether they want to admit it or not, they could all potentially be Taiwan, were it not for like with Jamie, you know, when he's dealing with the riverlands, that is just seamless. But the thing that holds him back from being Taiwan, for better or worse, is he's not really willing to do the horrible shit. You know, like when he doesn't have to trebuchet the baby, he's like, Oh, thank God. I think I was bluffing, you know, and also he is so apathetic. He could never possibly be an efficient house ruler. Like he has no self preservation. He does not care enough. He's like Ned in a way, you know, like, you know, obviously came into leadership a little bit more, but Jamie, like, neither of them wanted it. They didn't want to. Yeah. Yeah. And Cersei, I, God, I used to scoff so bad and roll my eyes

every time she would say I am Tywin Lannister's true heir. But I really mean it when I say that Tyrion and Cersei are neck and neck with it, because Cersei, the one thing that gets in the way of her being like Tywin. And here's where he really failed her. If he would have just held her to the same esteem that he did her mother, she would be fucking unstoppable. But how he had her fucked up was bread crumbing affection for her, not taking her seriously, treating her as a broodmare. He taught her the only like, it's it's your beauty. That's your worth. Yeah, it's it's your cut. That's your worth essentially like your ability to breed. But like, she has, she's willing to do the fucked up stuff. She has the mind for it as paranoid as people say as she is.

I would have loved to go back and get Cersei point of view chapters from before Joffrey died. Yeah, I would have loved to see how sound to see how sound because like she is politically savvy. What gets in her way is not just the paranoia, but she hasn't been taught patience. That's true. If she were less impulsive, she would be Tywin with teats. She'd be fucking unstoppable. Well, you can't be, I mean, if she also, I mean, she's a little right. If she were born a man, she'd be allowed to do all the things. Tywin. Yeah, they let like any man rule these days. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And that's where Tywin failed her because it's

like so so you could hold and we don't know the ins and outs of it. It's like for all we know, like they all thought it was this acceptable thing that Joanna was helping him run things and she was behind the scenes. Like, yeah, still fucked up in itself. Yeah, you know, so I definitely would have loved her point of view chapters before Feast. I think it's perfect that we picked up where we did with Cersei, but I do think that, and even Kevin admits it in his point of view chapters, like, oh, maybe Cersei was right about these Turrells, but the thing is like she's so, she's so paranoid right now that it's like she knows there's a smell coming from the other room, but she

can't quite locate exactly where it's coming from. She smells the roses, but she doesn't know if it's coming from like under the couch, in the closet, you know, so she can't really separate the forest from the trees. And I think a lot of it is just like, like realistically narcissistic mother or not, how many of us would think clearly if our firstborn child like died, excruciatingly in front of our eyes. Yeah, no, absolutely not. Like anyone. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, it's terrible. It's a traumatic experience. Of course, you're going to be completely wrapped up in it for years. Yeah. Yeah. So she definitely like she is Tywin with her hands held behind her back. Yeah. Yeah. Makes you wonder what he was like when Joanna died. Probably bad.

Yeah. He threw himself into his work. But yeah, speaking of smells in the other room, there's about to be a bunch of crazy smells during this walk. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because we're going to go on it. It's happening. Unella Unea steps forward, declaring to the crowd that the Queen Dowager, a sinner who's confessed and begged for forgiveness, will now demonstrate her repentance by presenting herself before the city as the gods made her with a humble heart shorn of secrets and concealments naked before the eyes of gods and men to make her walk of atonement. Maybe naked before the eyes of the old gods, because again, Bloodraven might be here.

The Sceptas, I think it's interesting that the Sceptas are the ones who are surrounding her so that they can drag her back into her imprisonment if she balks during this walk. And they're the ones who, as we covered, shaved her, they're the ones who stripped her, and they're the ones who forced her to stay here. Behind the septas are a bunch of novice girls, clad in white. And I think it is an important idea because it's a symbol of the role that, yes, women do play in reinforcing patriarchy, which is a huge part of Circe's chapters. The first person, as she notes, that she hears in her interiority to call her a whore as an insult is a woman. The next insult she hears is also Harlet, also from a woman. These septas, they're her mirrors,

not Jamie, even though she sees herself as different from them. They're the ones who, like her, are reinforcing the structure. As Cersei points out earlier, how hypocritical it is that she's being punished and shamed for her sexuality when the faith has her doing this walk naked. You know, and like something to keep in mind is like, exposure of the naked body is a form of sexual humiliation and therefore it's sexual abuse. So this this church, this great religious entity is sexually abusing her and it's just so infuriating because they're using sexual depravity to punish what they view as sexual depravity to punish what they view as sexual depravity.

Yeah. Right. I mean, like, I would never expect religion to be hypocritical. Yeah. But no, I'm joking. Sorry. No, not in our world. The church? What? The church doing sexual abuse? Never heard of it. Sorry. I'm done. Yeah. It's like, I think of like, the child abuse that went on of like,

telling a child, oh, you don't want to touch this hot stove, you will burn yourself and they're not going to learn unless they hit it and touch it. But like, religion and like churches, like I remember reading a story of like, a nun that put a child's hand straight on the burner because they wouldn't stop touching it and burnt them. Like that's not going to teach them a great lesson. That's going to make them scared the rest of their lives. Like it's a little harsh, a little too much. But Cersei recalls Tytos, her grandpa, died when she was one. And when her father took his place, he had taken his mistress's dresses, jewels, and dignity in the same way that she was one, and when her father took his place, he had taken his mistress's

dresses, jewels, and dignity in the same way that she was having happen to her now. The woman had to walk through Lannisport so the West saw her for what she was. She heard the stories growing up from the washerwoman and guardsman. They spoke of how the woman had wept and begged, of the desperate way she clung to her garments when she was commanded to disrobe, of her futile efforts to cover her breasts and her sex with her hands as she hobbled barefoot and naked through the streets to exile. Vain and proud she was before, she remembered one guard saying, so haughty you'd think she'd forgot she'd come from dirt. Once we got her clothes off her,

though, she was just another whore. If Sir Kevin and the High Sparrow thought that it would be the same with her, they were very much mistaken. Lord Tywin's blood was in her. I am a lioness. I will. You got it. I was gonna say, I love that these, I love that these, you know, these guards are Texan. I don't know. He came from the South. I was like, interesting, interesting. I guess he's from the West, but like you get the accent out there is like what, like Long Beach instead of Long Beach is what I've learned.

Well, you could have gone like, you know, like, like Bane and proud she was before. You'll have to tell our mutual friend, Eliana, your third friend, that I've learned my lesson about Long Beach versus Long Beach. Oh, that's my new thing. I don't know if I remember that distinction. But sure, that's the distinction. That's what I've learned. So I have been on this earth for 30, I mean, 28 years. And I speak two languages and I still don't have an ear for the California accent. So, you know, just saying. They're mostly normal. One thing I mean, I like to think so maybe that's it. Moving along. What, like a long beach? How do you say it again? Moving along.

Long, not long. Long. Long beach. Okay. Okay. It's like how in Texas, there's Lancaster, but in Pennsylvania, there's Lancaster. Well, in Texas, and I was born and spent half my childhood there on and off, I've realized that nobody can make a single vowel stretch for five syllables quite like a Texan can.

It's not that, it's by it. Love it. Love it. It's musical. Yeah. Yeah. There's other Texans listening being like, traitor.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Cersei's entire act amongst other things is like this complete illustration about the paradox of prophecy. And even if you took the literal prophecy that's like so prominent in her story out of it,

Cersei does bring up interesting conversations about self-fulfillment. We sit there and we're like, oh, well, she's a woman hater because she projects her fears into being a woman. And in a lot of ways, like everything she's done has been to like set herself apart from being a woman. And it takes the form of doing really horrible things and doing really misogynistic things when it comes down to it. This walk, this walk itself proves everything she fears, you know, and in the past, you know, because of, you know,

I've had a complicated relationship with Cersei, it used to trigger the fuck out of me. Like I had came to this realization that, you know, the most realistic lens to look with Cersei it used to trigger the fuck out of me. Like I I had came to this realization That you know, the most realistic lens to look at Cersei is through the POVs of her male family members Like good or bad I think that people that want to just like sleep on Cersei every time she refers to herself as a lioness They want to be like, oh, of course, you think you're a lioness Cersei Kevin has this thought You know like Kevin calls her a lioness Kevin Kevin calls her the most, like basically the most beautiful woman in the world. But realistically, like the way she moves, the way she thinks,

like Jamie's got it down. Tyrion's got it down. But the paradox of it is like the men who have these views. It's not fair for me to be like, oh yeah, hit the nail on the head because they created this. Yeah. They created Cersei. They molded this. It's like if she would have been free to just like if she would have been held in a higher esteem as a woman, I highly doubt she would have been this quote unquote, well, she is selfish. You know, like I highly doubt that a lot of these undesirable character traits would really exist as they are. But if there's one thing that's just this huge paradox one can argue, well, she put herself in this position. Yes and no, you know, but

this walk proves it's the very example of why she made the moves that she did. It proves how society views women. It proves how brutal, you know where I'm going with this. Yeah. No, yeah. It proves exactly that everything she feels about the society being misogynistic and that the rules applying in a certain way, it just reinforces it for her. Yeah, it completely reinforces it. Does she act like, does she conduct herself? Well, absolutely not. But her fears are completely founded. And what does this do? It doesn't teach her anything.

Yes, her resentment toward being a woman is because deep down there's this innate fear of what can happen to you. I mean, like, you know, Tytos is mistress. That happened when she was one years old. Since she can remember anything, that's been her view of how women are treated. Yeah. And the thing is, it's almost like it's something she resents about herself. And yet she's only been taught to play up the parts of her that are quote unquote, feminine. As you said, right, like it reinforces like, yeah, the sense of unsafety because during her confession, last chapter, I'm like, yeah, I, she says she felt unsafe, she had no one to

trust. And that's true. She didn't have anyone to trust. She was unsafe and all these things. And it's interesting that like, titles and that walk happened when she was only a one year old, like, it means that this is a narrative she has grown up with her entire life that this could happen to a woman, but for a while she thought, but not me, because I'm high born, I'm different. And it's no, the hammer comes for all of you, regardless of your class. Yeah. And that's like the big thing about this walk that we'll kind of come to here

towards the end of it that I mean, I think that's the biggest cross section like class, like everywhere she walks is a whole display of class in King's Landing. Cersei bears herself in one smooth motion and steps out into the cold, shaking violently. She has to fight not to hide herself like her grandfather's mistress had done. They were looking at her, all the hungry eyes, but what were they saying? I'm beautiful, she reminded herself. How many times had Jamie told her that? Even Robert had given her that much when he came to her bed in his cups to pay her drunken homage with his cock. They looked at Ned Stark the same way though. LMAO. I love that girl though. She crazy.

They looked at Ned Stark the same way. They thought he was pretty too. He was beautiful too. Well, I think it's the hunger, right? Yeah, the hunger. Me, I think it's the beautiful part. Robert also looked at Ned the same way. Yes. Okay, so we hate Jake Gyllenhaal now, right? But at the same time, in one of those illustrations of him that's on the Wiki, they gave Ned Stark Jake Gyllenhaal's face. I'll grab this photo for you guys. No. I'm not here for this. I am not here for it.

But yeah, this, this self assurance that she gives herself about her beauty really makes me sad. Like she's been conditioned ever since she was a little girl like, like we talked about that beauty was her worth. And as much as she pushed back on that plenty of times in her life, the most depressing part is no matter what she tells herself deep down, she believes that beauty is her worth, like that is true. And I kind of view her as just like in this moment,

this like scared, misled little girl that has to comfort herself in this moment by just being like, but I'm beautiful, but I'm beautiful, I'm pretty, I'm pretty. And it kind of harkens back to, you know, not to quote the show, but Cersei tells, and I know they're two different entities, Cersei tells Zaddy Pablo, like Pedro Pascal, you know, she tells him everywhere in the world they hurt little girls. And it's like, she would know. Yeah. If her claws could

not protect her. Yes. I mean, if, if Jenna wasn't around, she had to hype herself up always. She, her mom wasn't there to tell her to, I mean, you think of Catalin brushing Sansa's hair, saying she was so beautiful. I always think about how I would love to brush her hair. She doesn't have many memories of that. Yeah,hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. And when you think about it too, like, Jemma does, she herself in a way kind of shirks gender norms, like established gender norms in this world. Yeah. Jenna is the pants wearer, quote unquote.

Yes. Do I keep calling her Jenna? I do. I do. Y'all know what I mean. I love you. She's got that vibe. Naked, shorn, barefoot.

Cersei descends with her chin held high, her escort out in front of her, novice girls in white behind her, septa guard that has spread behind her. Poor, someone cried out, a woman's voice. Women were always the cruelest, where other women were concerned. Cersei ignored her. There will be more.

And worse. Do you think the baker that keeps calling out hot pies is hot pie? He has to be, right? I don't know. There's a lot of... Like when they were at that fort and Arya's like, Winterfell and he's like, Hot pie! My favorite thing in the world. There's a lot of food that's being hawked throughout this and it feels like a sports event and really shows that it's like a spectacle.

Some of it does have a little bit of imagery, a little bit, very loosely. If you want to do mental gymnastics and I am a gold medalist and that shit, so just saying. Meat pies sound good. Oh my god. She focuses on Egan's Hill on the Red Keep and thinks that it's her salvation to get home. And she thinks of all her ops.

She thinks of her uncle, the sparrow, Marjorie. These are all her enemies. These are all the people that are going to like spite rage fuel her to get there. I mean, my own toxic trait is that I am like, nothing and I mean nothing motivates me to succeed quite like sheers by yeah. Yeah, low key say if you it's not even it's it's not the people that tell me I can't do something that like mean well it's the people that tell me I can't do something that like they mean it and they're being a little punk ass bitch that I'm like, watch me. Don't believe me just watch. Yeah. I'm kind of the same.

It's a secret. Not anymore. I told the podcast. Cool. We have this line of, they think that this will break my pride, that it will make an end to me, but they are wrong. Shout out to gray area because I feel like if we were here together, we would just bust out and Eminem lyrics at this point because I feel like I respect this pick an Eminem lyric and it would be fitting but could have been a quote. Is it an Eminem lyric or

is it a quote in a Cersei chapter? That would be a fun game. You should put that together and do that. Oh my god, their hair is the same. Wow. It is. Wow. Wow. And maybe if one of her kids actually goes out the window just like Eminem says, I guess that's why they call it window pain. Windows ill and pain. Thank you. Oh my god. I'm gonna cry. Michigan's finest. No offense. Thank you. Whoa. Okay.

I got it. As Cersei carefully steps past the statue of Bailor, Scepta Scalera rings a bell chanting shame shame upon the sinner. Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting scene where they're telling her that her body is shameful throughout this whole thing, right? When as you pointed out, her whole life she's been told, this is your asset.

And I mean, it's also it's just a body. Same as everyone else. We all got bodies unless it's like, I don't know, a Futurama and you're the head in the bat, Ronald Reagan head. And it makes me think of the, this time in high school, uh, when some random administrator, I didn't even know him, made me feel shameful for wearing short shorts. And it made me, it tried to make me feel like my body was shameful. I'm like, I'm just a girl. And I stand by that was his school.

Like male staff don't address it. And that's good. And it's better that way because it is really discomforting. Like, dude, why you? It was weird. Cersei reflects on Baylor's many contradictions, like locking up his sisters and expelling sex workers. A woman calls her a harlot and a rotten vegetable is thrown, missing her just barely. She reminds herself she's a lioness and follows the poor fellows toward the Red Keep, her salvation. After a slow journey down Visenya's hill, she nearly falls but she's caught by Unela, who advises

her to watch her step. Bitch, I swear to God. Cersei wrenches free responding very meekly though anger is simmering beneath. I could be Cersei's like anger translator like Key and Peele when they have the Obama anger translator but I'm Cersei's anger translator I'm like bitch she said get the fuck away from her. I am sorry like this is all very real like I would throw the bitch down the hill at this point. You're having a very bad, she's having a really bad day, dude. It's already bad enough and now you're falling and you're stepping in muck and people are throwing like dead fish at you. That's rough. But she did kill Lady. Ooh, I don't know.

Interesting. Wow. You really turned, you turned fast. That was, I didn't expect that. I just remembered Lady for a hot minute. I'm sorry. We were in this, we were in this state of mind where we, you're like really trying to empathize with this woman and be like, yeah, she's a horrible woman with lore. And you just like, you're just throwing out her greatest hits. Yeah. Okay.

She still doesn't deserve this as we'll talk about, but, but she did kill Lady. This is a hard one today. I didn't see you going there. Wow. I know. I've been really pro Cersei this whole time and I'm sorry. I just kind of just remembered that she killed Lady, dude. I'm about to be like, is Cersei also the Messiah? Is Cersei also Jesus? I mean, she did. You brought up earlier, right? Like, I'm just gonna liken her to, again, a bunch of male biblical figures. Cersei wept. This is like him carrying the cross all the way up to like Golgotha, Calgary, whatever.

It's up a hill, same as Aegon's shit. It's on a hill, right? He was mocked at, jeered at. He has his crown of thorns where she's talking about how they've taken her crown. Hill, same as Egan's shit, it's on a hill, right? He was mocked at, jeered at, he has his crown of thorns where she's talking about how they've taken her crown, and then she also falls three times. Jesus also falls three times on that walk. And I'm just saying, like, she thinks about herself looking, they look at her like Ned Stark, and Ned Stark died for our sins, same as Jesus did. And so is that what's... No. Honestly, I think Ned Stark straight up looked like white Jesus. Did you see this image?

Did you look at this image I put in the chat? Like you got to click on it. I mean a little, maybe a little. Oh, I did see the Uma Thurman image that Chloe so graciously sent us. Yes, Queen. Oh, yeah, that's white Jesus. Um, that is white Jesus. Yeah. So I'm just saying like, seriously, also, dying for our

sins? I don't know. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. You're just the Holy Fool. And baby, it's so cruel because you're still in love with Cersei. Oh, I'm in love with Cersei of Cersei. That's such a fucking good song though. I'm just like, when they come for me, I'll be ready. To the banger. Listen, my favorite part in that entire song is the whole breakdown, like robotics and she just goes, ew. Not the actual breakdown, but the pause when she just goes, ew. And then proceeding with.

Yeah, she's everything. Oh gaga. Cersei loses sight of the Red Keep. It's now obscured by tall buildings. She tries to walk faster, but she outpaces her poor fellows. They stop to move a meat skewer vendor. The skewers kinda resemble rats. The vendor resembles Robert a little bit, so she's pretty skeeved out by the whole experience. She looks away in disgust, but the man throws it at her, hitting her leg, the meat skewer,

and the mob grows closer and she hears all the insults aimed at her. People saying, whore, sinner, brother, fucker, traitor, calls for Stannis, calls for Marjorie, they're not going to save you bitches. Just putting that out there. Stannis ain't evergaery, they're not gonna save you bitches. Just putting that out there. Stannis ain't ever coming back south. What? Hey, are you never coming back south? I'm just saying, like, is he ever gonna go back to King's Landing?

No. Probably not. No, it's over. I don't see him going back. It's curtains for that guy. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like natural habitat for him. There's a reason we've never gotten a single

point of view chapter one. It's not happening. It's not meant to be. Oh, yeah. We get some focus on Baylor, right, in this and talking about how he kicked out the sex workers from the city, which, you know, met with mixed responses, very wild and polarizing thing to do. And as Cersei kind of thinks about that, I think about Baylor's reign. And we talked a lot about that in our Maiden Vault episode on patreon.com slash girls gone canon, where we do bonus episodes for the stranger tier $5 and above. If you have $5, you get a back catalog of 70 plus episodes that we've done of content, not just this. If you're caught up with Cersei,

you're like, oh my God, no Daenerys. When does Daenerys start? You should be listening to those episodes. But we've talked a lot about the religious bearings and about how King's Landing kind of fell a little bit under Baelor because of his obsession with maybe religion and prophecy and not so much with actually ruling. And you start to kind of see Cersei's walk as this Odyssey through the classes of King's Landing, right? As she goes through, they don't go to Flea Bottom, as they'll say. We don't go to Flea Bottom because of course, it's too dangerous for her to go there because the wealth disparity is too much. That's really what they're saying. The hunger in everyone's eyes, the language that copies

A Clash of Kings' riot and all of the tensions bubbling. The hunger, again, the hunger is the loudest thing. These people are hungry and there's no more being saved like the Tyrells showed up with except maybe when Dorn and Aegon come. Who knows? Maybe they'll bring something to keep it down just a little bit. But I mean, the tensions out there are bad and you kind of see how people are actually living while Cersei is living in the castle, feasting people before sending them to the dungeons, calling for a boar and they're like, we couldn't get a boar in time for your feast. And she's like, fine, pig then we'll just have regular pig. And this is a punishment. Like we said, answering

fire with fire, the great equalizer. Yeah, Cer. See the con she treats people like shit Especially poor people and anyone that's poorer than her except for like three people in her entire life. She treats them like shit Does she deserve this? No, does anyone deserve this? I don't know that anyone deserves this. I don't know that this Teaches anyone a lesson. I don't know this prevents crime I don't know that this makes someone a better person for having done this. I don't think this event brings you closer to God or to any God or to the gods. This doesn't teach you a lesson. This doesn't do any of that. I don't think anyone deserves this. I don't think anybody grows from it.

I can't keep up with the mood swings first. This is bad. And it's like, but she deserves it because of lady. I didn't say she deserves it. Okay, okay. I did not. I was very clear. I said I don't think she deserves it. She did kill lady. True. Okay. Okay. Thank you for the clarification. Wow. Hey, remember that time she did. Yeah, because I was like-

No, I don't know how- My own words twist against me. How am I supposed to feel right now? Where am I? My blood and betrayal. Oh my god. Foe's and enemies. Treasons surround me.

Jesus. I will say, I will say at no point did you say she deserved it. It was more like the two were squashed together. Okay, listen, I think I clean remember the time I was like, I was like, No, she doesn't. I can't keep up. I can't keep up. This is gotcha journalism. You are running a journalism podcast. Eliana. It's your podcast when it messes up, by the way. This is not helpful. So but you keep talking about the hunger and I keep thinking of that song that back that do you remember the hunger is never ending. It was so stupid. It's a stupid YouTube video or whatever. It's Charlie. Was it from? Yeah, was it from the 2006 era?

It's like it's like it's like shoes adjacent. I think it's like very okay I see like that kind of genre. Okay. Okay. Got it. 14 years ago. All right. I was more about shoes and that one drunk guy that's like ranting about seahorses. Yeah. The cobblestones are filthy. She can't walk down them without stepping into questionable puddles. She hopes they're just rainwater, but horse piss was more likely to. Shit piss, rotten fruit, beer, eggs, and a dead cat. All sorts of things are raining out here in the streets down on her and the poor fellows and warrior sons. We have a line.

The cat carcass hit the cobble so hard that it burst open, spattering her lower legs with entrails and maggots. Cersei walked on. I am blind and deaf and they are warning the city told herself. Tommen would write. The cats? This is what kind of place are you running? I'm sad about the cat carcass.

Yeah. This is fucked. Thank you for understanding I couldn't about the cat carcass. Yeah. This is fucked. Thank you for understanding I couldn't read this, by the way. I mean, oh no, it seems like a small thing, but can we talk about how Cersei is made of tougher stuff? I would cry. Yeah. Yes, like I am a germaphobe. Magnets? Oh, I would puke. I would literally, I'm gagging thinking about it. Yeah. I would puke. I would literally gagging thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. But on a serious note, the dead cat has me a little concerned about foreshadowing of the manner of Tommin's impending death, assuming there might be some sort of riot

because he loves his cats. And the last royal child that was in, not the last, but you know, there is a black cat running around the Red Keep that was owned by another particular royal child. I just, I'm scared he might get the Malor treatment. I think that he's definitely going to go, I mean, he'll have to go in the Tyrells go, right? Both of these children have to die. and Dorn being attached with Tristain and Myrcella right now means that Myrcella is probably going to make it a little bit longer than Tommen, but Tommen's time on this earth is not soon. And I love the cat as that kind of reflection.

And I guess when you put Myrcella, Aegon, one-one then, if Rhaenys and the cat and Tommen and the cat for deaths and then Aegyn and Marcella, we'll see what happens there. That worries me. She doesn't deserve a flamy death and I worry she could have one. But I've thought about it for a while. That's been in my list. It could happen. But the cat is like the perfect symbolism of that and the Rod of King's Landing in general. Like all been in my list. It could happen. But the cat is like the perfect symbolism

of that and the Rod of King's Landing in general. Like all this has to go. This whole thing's got to go. Unfortunately, there's just so many possibilities. So many ways those kids could go. I mean, it could be eating themselves out the window. It could be a poison. It could be, you know, like my co-host, Nim Shadow, she has this theory that Tyene might just give him the long farewell. And it might be on the way from King's Landing to Casterly Rock that he, you know, he kicks the bucket from poison. There's so many ways. Yeah, I mean, they're all just cats of a different coat. Get out of here.

Get the fuck out. Get off. No, I mean that. I mean that, truly. And then also, I think of a different cat carcass out there in the riverlands, right? Which is kind of the reason, part of why Jamie's not back. There's a cat carcass keeping him a little busy right now.

Oh. Lady Stoneheart. Get out of here. Girl. What? No, I'm serious. These out of here. Girl. No, I'm serious. These were serious thoughts. I know. Get out of here. These were the puns. I was talking earlier.

I'm following you. I just don't want the imagery. Okay. All right. All right. Damn. They're just out here dealing with dead cats. Big sad. Hashtag dead cat. Oh my god. That is actually what people would say. They'd be like, hashtag dead cat if Lady Snowheart. Anyways, speaking of singing, we have, shame shame, the septus sang.

Chestnuts, hot roast chestnuts, a peddler cried. Queen cut, a drunkard pronounced solemnly from a balcony above, lifting his cup to her in a mocking toast. All hail the Royal Teets. Words are wind, Cersei thought. Words cannot hurt me. Words cannot harm me. He got wow. Side note, side note. Did you know that in early, like the early Christians associated chestnuts with chastity and I did not know that. I mean, makes sense the tracks with them.

I think they associate a lot of those things. I figured I just thought that in there. Yeah, figured I'd throw it in there as like mental gymnastics. So you're welcome. They only sell chestnuts at the naked queen rally. Yeah, as she purifies herself by being essentially assaulted. By the church, by the church. Halfway down Visenya's hill, Cersei trips and scrapes her knee and laughter erupts from the crowd.

A man jokes about kissing it better. Yeah, just like Jesus actually. She glances back, still seeing the sept of Baylor's Towers, but the Red Keep is now out of sight and she starts to feel lost and anxious. Her escort's captain steps in, urging them to move because the crowd is growing unruly. This unrest in A Dance of Dragons is going to lead to unrest in The Winds of Winter and it's going to be off the charts when it does. It's be a clash of kings electric bugle 2.0 it's gonna do that all over again but worse and. It's really hostile at this tone is so tense you can see how may lores fate in the dance could come about right and the riots will get to see some day and kings landing. As well as you know maybe house the dragon since we'll get feast, dance, and wins through House of the Dragon. Thank God somebody is adapting it out here. And maybe if they give us at least like six

episodes next season, you know, we might get it. But we'll see. You know, speaking of said riots, you know, because we keep saying it. So my co-host, NIMS Shadow Mandy, she theorized a few years ago that she thinks that what's really going to kick the riots off is going to be Marjorie's death in some way, shape or form. And in the same way during the dance, because Marjorie is very beloved, Queen Helena was as well in the greens. And it was really after Helena's death that, you know, the shepherd was able to entice King's Landing into uprising essentially, because everyone thought, oh, this is Raynera's fault. And they hated Raynera so much, they were just ready to believe it. They have no love for Cersei. In fact, they might hate Cersei even more. You know, they definitely

at this point have no modicum of respect for her after this walk. That's true. You know, I do think whether Cersei had a hand in it or not, they're going to place the blame on her. And I don't know, I think the ironic thing might be it probably won't be Cersei's fault. That's a good point. Yeah. Well, and Doran's going to be orchestrating it is the other part of it. This is all going to be things carefully placed by Varys to clear the way for Dorne, the Dornish

to come and unhinge things for Aegon. You have Nim joining the council. So nod to your Nim. Nod to your Nim. Yeah, nod to your Nim and nod to Gorgias. You have Lady Nymeria joining the council. You have Tyene anonymously joining the faith to wreck and wreak havoc there. You have Aryan coming to work on the outside with John Connington and to fight in councils with John Connington. You have all these players starting to encroach. You have the. Descending. Cersei is known as done after this finished. They see her as a means to their ends.

Hear me out, hear me out, hear me out, okay? And don't come at me because I know how you bitches like to fight. So I'm kind of subscribing to even though the fan fiction did it sloppily, I do think she's going to link up with your on I just like we said earlier, I don't know the mechanics along the way. But you're on might have something to do with the downfall of marjorie like there. We might never know exactly what it was. We might never know because there's so many factors you have the Iron Men that are really a thorn in the reaches side. You have the Dornish who are coming in. Like it might be Tyene that poisons Margaery. You know, it could be a few different factors. But I do think that, you know, Euron will be in the picture, whether that's when she goes

back to Casterly Rock, or he might just show up in King's Landing or when she's fleeing along the way. I don't know. Like I said, I'm, I don't get paid to think about the mechanics. I just know I'm against it. Yeah, them looking up. It does make sense also logistically, because the islands are right there. Casterly Rock to that and I kind of have this theory that in the prophecy when it says your tears have drowned you. I think that she turns to youruron after both her kids are dead. Not actual drowning as much as Iron Men, Drowned Men, Drowned God, all this other stuff. Because I do think the ball and card is Euron, don't fight me.

Oh, interesting. I've talked myself into being serious. He's right that it's Tyrion. So I'm out here with the strange theory. Also, for me now with theories, I'm always like, I'm going to give it a couple years and see how I feel. Because I'm also like, do I feel differently now? Or is it just because we just don't have any proof and I'm just changing my mind? So that's been happening. But I do feel as I read, I'm more open to the idea of your answer see. Like something happening there i do think she's please i don't think she dies necessarily if she does it's gotta be like, the big curtain fall and i don't know i just think there's too much stuff to happen and i do think they go.

go near each other. And it's not fun. It's not fun to pigeonhole yourself to one theory like our teenage years, of course, because we're all in our 20s. It's hard being so beautiful. We were children, literal children, like eight years old. Yeah. Fetuses. Yes.

Yeah. I'm just lucky to know such wise women like you two. We've been talking about how magic might play a role. Discussing like, seriously, it actually is a very magical POV in terms of the story. So like, Euron's story also very much overlaps with magic. So it could be pretty interesting there as well. Yeah, I could see the magic in her plot actually coming to do something with him now, like something that I never would have thought until this reread, honestly, on the magic part. It does have a lot of magic.

I don't know, it's there. Cersei says to her guard that she's not afraid and he's like, you should be, and tugs her along. She wishes it were Jaime with his golden sword, slashing through the mob. Sorry, I just thought of Luke and Yoda when, you know, Luke's like, I'm not afraid, Yoda's like, you should be. I wish he would jump on her back like Yoda. Oh my god, that would be- Rest in peace, Yoda.

For real. Cersei steps on some debris and complains to Unela about not being given sandals. A knight pulls her away roughly and she's wondering if this knight has forgotten who she is, manhandling her like this. At the hill's base, she spots the red keep again, breaks free and limps on, leaving bloody footprints. She trudges through mud and dung, surrounded by mocking comments about her sagging breasts. girl it's okay because listen listen listen like I just know Cersei has a dump truck ass hear me out on this you can always there's the way she conducts herself you just know she's a white girl with a thick ass yeah okay white girls with thick ass carry themselves a certain way and like Cersei kind of

emulates a lot of that look Look, look, perky titties are fleeting. Gat is forever. Like just just saying. Like it's okay, because you just know she's got a fat ass. I also think it's canonical. Like isn't doesn't Jamie more or less kind of say that about maybe not her ass, but her hips and stuff like in in his chapters. So I think you're right. Yeah. I also I don't know, I just find this child so rude. She's like, she's as saggy as his mom. And I'm like, be respectful. And I bet his mom's a milf. But also, like, have you been like recently looking at your mommy's

titties? That's a fantastic question. Also, that's also a good question. No other tips to compare it to. Tell on yourself, you little crotch goblin. Okay. Never seen another pair. What if it was sweet Robin? Interesting. Oh, maybe it is. Well, good for him.

Cause you know Liza's got great titty too. Anyway. We have a line. This is my penance, Cersei told herself. I ascend most grievously. This is my atonement. It will be over soon. It will all be behind me. Then I can forget. Oddly reminiscent of Malara pleading with her to forget the prophecy.

Oh, yeah. Which can we argue that Malara was right? If they would have just forgot about it, they probably would have been fine. Yeah, she would still be alive too. Yeah well you know according to Cersei that's what she gets for looking at Jamie. So yeah you know just desserts. But instead of relief she begins to see familiar faces and common people. A man who looks like Tywin frowning down at her. A young girl beneath a fountain with Malara's accusing eyes. Ned Stark with a little Sansa and a shaggy gray dog that could be her wolf. And you know, every time I read this, I try to find some fantastical theory about why

she sees those particular shades and hallucinations, like out of all the motherfuckers she's crossed in her life. You know, like it makes sense to see Tywin, Tyrion and Joffrey, even Malara all in association with each other in one sitting. But you know, why the inclusion of like, why not Jaime too? You know, why the inclusion of Ned? And why is it Sansa very particularly with her wolf, you know, instead of someone like Ned? And why is it Sansa very particularly with her wolf, you know, instead of someone like Margaery, who definitely dogs her steps when she thinks about prophecy. And the answer is that I don't actually know. But we are at a point in the chapter and her walk of atonement that her fears are deteriorating the armor she set

up around herself. And Ned and Sansa do kind of represent fates that Cersei fears sharing. Like Ned, you know, she thinks of Ned when she first walks onto the steps of Baelor, you know, and it could very well like Ned essentially confessed, you know, and he was set for the wall and things didn't go according to plan and he ended up getting beheaded right then and there. Like there's that fear living with her like hey are they gonna go back on their word or they're gonna go back on their plan and with Sansa like to see the wolf in particular it does remind me of Sansa like the attempt to strip her of her identity to take her agency away to like

strip it all away from Sansa. She's scared of that shit too. That's a good point. Yeah. And, and the, that Sansa had like, she had a little teeth to her when she had a wolf, you know, there there's that sort of danger that you can exert a shield. Yeah. But also like, I guess there's the mocking aspect too, because of what she also kind of sees Tyrion a little and then like, I don't

know if it was wrong talking about Banquo's ghost, I know that Margot was talking about Lady Macbeth for Cersei, but now I'm talking about Cersei as Man Macbeth. Lord, I don't think I like that. Lord Scottish play. Yeah. The other Macbeth as like seeing the shades of the dead at the feast, right? They're not all dead, I guess Sansa's still alive. But yeah, then we have her being Tyrion jeering at her when Joffrey died. I'm like, I don't remember Tyrion jeering when Joffrey died, I remember Tyrion being like, oh fuck.

And it makes me think of Theon's dream he has of the banquet feast and seeing Leona dripping with blood and all his guilt too, you know, similar there. So one thing I do want to put out there regarding Tyrion not sneering in reality at the feast, like Cersei seems to remember it. So before I say anything, I want all listeners to take note. I am not a mental health professional, nor do I seek to confidently, ten toes down, diagnose anybody within the story. I'm just saying, I have a sibling who has borderline personality disorder. And I'm just saying the parts of BPD that I have witnessed and experienced in an interpersonal relationship do kind of correlate with certain

aspects of Cersei. Like that's kind of just all I'm saying. You know, like, yes, Cersei does show a lot of traits of narcissistic personality disorder. But when you think about it, she also shares traits with BPD. You know, like one of the bigger traits that separates narcissistic personality disorder from BPD. And you know, like Cersei kind of does both of them. It's like when people with BPD feel rejected, there's this tendency to, you know, like they say narcissists love bomb and BPD hate bombs. So every single time Cersei has felt rejected by Jamie, she goes for his jugular. It never really says whether she feels bad right away.

It never really says the way she's like, yeah, I just ate. But the thing about BPD is like, I believe it is 26 to 48% of people who have BPD. There is kind of this correlation between trauma and not having the best memory. Like trauma can kind of tend to, with some people, fabricate certain like memories. So seeing Joffrey die was a very traumatizing event.

Even if you don't have this mental illness to go along with it. It's really hard to like in the moment with all the adrenaline and the chaos, it's hard to remember things exactly how it happened. So it's not really beyond the scope of possibility with the traits that she shares of BPD for her to not remember it a certain way. And I don't think that's her fault. Yeah. It's interesting as a crazy ex-girlfriend, the show enjoyer. That's what I was thinking. I was thinking of Miss Punch. I was thinking of West Covina, California. Does she have BPD in the show? Yes, she does. And it's a great show. Highly recommended.

Sorry, spoiler. Yes, it is a spoiler. I'm sorry. Oops. Everyone should watch it though. It's so good. I highly recommend. It's a money, top five shows. I highly recommend. Crazy ex-girlfriend. Throwing the headphones. So we have, every child became Tyrion again during like when Joffrey died and then there

was Joff too. Her son, her firstborn, her beautiful bright boy with his golden curls and his sweet smile. He had such lovely lips. That was when she fell the second time. She was shaking like a leaf when they pulled her to her feet. She begs the mother to have mercy. She says she confessed. Moelle and Unela agree, telling her it's not much farther, just up Agans Hill."

This was actually surprising to realize on the reread. Unela is actually encouraging her. She's like, it's just there. Look, you can make it. There's an aspect in which I'm wondering, does Unela feel a little bad for Cersei? She's the one who also like caught her earlier on to like keep her from stumbling. Like obviously she doesn't feel bad enough for her, right? But like, you know, if Unela is a little highborn, like does she have some sympathy for Cersei's position where like, understandably, I'm like, you know, the lower classes have less sympathy because of the privilege that Circe has enjoyed in like every other aspect of her life, right? Like as Rowan pointed out, Circe has had every privilege in her life, except for gender. And like the way that they, the lower classes are trying to like rigsert their sense of power. It's not through an actual real change. But again, this is a spectacle. We have all these things that make it sound like a sporting event.

Like this is their five minute hate, like in 1984. Because misogyny is about the exertion of power over others, right? It's that sort of like systems. And so I don't know, I'm just like, wow, it's interesting that Inela was a little nice there for a sec. And then now that you've reread that quote, I'm like, oh, the curls and shaving her. It's not just that, it's her connection to her children. Dang. It's what made them not Robert's children. True, true, true. More to love. Other than the semen. Yeah, that too. Well, they didn't know, they didn't care about that. It's the

genealogy that matters these days. Listen, she understood actually that Stephen is made up of hundreds of little editors. Poor brother fucker. Abomination. Want to suck on this, your grace. What a nice, pleasant man that she meets in the crowd. He bears his cock to her, grinning. You know, really interesting how many times Jamie Lannister gets called a sister fucker. Not enough. Not enough, in my opinion. He should get called more. I think they're just afraid to say it to his face, but maybe they won't be as much anymore now that he's missing a hand. Who knows?

It all doesn't matter to Cersei because she's almost home. She begins to climb, and the Gears are cruder here. They didn't go through Flea Bottom, so Flea Bottom came here. And it's of course an incredibly interesting and different crowd of folks from Flea Bottom. They all have one thing in common though. They hoot and lick their lips at her as she goes past and shout obscene proposals or insults after her. STACEY This is an unrelated point, but I just noticed this detail of like, she talks about seeing more than one person here whose teeth have been filed into points, and I've not really thought about that before. We see that in

another prominent character, Biter, and it makes me think of like those fighting pits but in King's Landing. STACEY Yeah, the flea-bottom ones right in the dance, I think that's totally the echo here and I'm wondering if that's going to take more of a role in T-Wow. Like Alicia was saying about Nim's theory, and everything kind of correlating there. I'm thinking we're going to see more of that in T-Wow, leading up to maybe a riot. that's something maybe he garden in that's coming in now and like it gives us a little bit more context and backstory for biter because I was like, why are why is this like that and also therefore gives a nice little subtle tie for hersei, Brienne, how we wanted to handle that. And we felt that doing Jamie and Cersei next to each other was a basic bitch move. It felt basic, it did not feel like us. But Jamie and Brienne is different. And I think it works well because of the proximity of the chapters. But I'm really glad we didn't because now we get to come back to it here and realize, oh shit, Brianne chapters are present and alive in this chapter.

Do you think that biter became cannibalistic initially out of necessity? That's possible. Probably. That's like, I mean, that's going to be a lot of cannibalism. Yeah. Like there's going to be a lot of cannibalism in T-Well, now that you're pointing out future riots and mini biters. There's of cannibalism in T-Well, now that you're pointing out future riots and mini biters.

There's already cannibalism in- Yeah, I think so. I mean, bowls of brown. You never know what meat's going in there. Not A grade. You really don't. You really fucking don't. It's food.

That's all you need to worry about. This is how prions get spread. Words are wind, she thought. Words cannot hurt me. I am beautiful. The most beautiful woman in all of Westeros. Jamie says so. Jamie would never lie to me. Even Robert. Robert never loved me, but he saw I was beautiful. He wanted me. So this isn't the first time that she has this thought to you know how the the man who loved her and the man who hated her could at least agree on her beauty. And like I said, she's using this to console and comfort herself. Yeah, to get through it. She did not feel beautiful,

though. She felt old, used, filthy, ugly. They were stretch marks on her belly from the children she had borne. Her breasts were not as firm as they had been when she was younger. Without a gown to hold them up, they sagged against her chest. I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they've seen, they've seen, they've seen. I should never have let them see. Gown and crowned, she was a queen.

Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman. Not so very different from their wives. More like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done? There was something in her eyes, stinging, blurring her sight. She could not cry, would not cry. The worms must never see her weep. She could not cry, would not cry. The worms must never see her weep. Cersei rubbed her eyes with the heels of her hands. A gust of cold wind made her shiver violently. And suddenly the hag was there,

standing in the crowd with her pendulous teats and her warty greenish skin, leering with the rest, with malice shining from her crusty yellow eyes. Queen you shall be, until there comes another, younger and more beautiful to cast you down and take all you hold most dear." And then there was no stopping the tears. They burned down the Queen's cheeks like acid.

Thank you. Egot? Egot, anyone? Do I get one? Egot, Egot.? Do I get one? EGOT, EGOT. What was the other one? BAFTA? Hunsing? BAFTA! There we go. Thank you.

BAFTA. So many voices today. Every voice gets a new EGOT. The emphasis on the tits, like, and as Alicia just pointed out, like, she's probably got a great ass. It really shows you George's biases that we don't get anything about that. But also, I love this, the turning point of the chapter where she goes, What have I done? And finally, you see the atonement and the regret. But it's not for her

actions. It's for her walk, right? She's not sad about killing the last High Septon. Yeah. You know, as she's breaking down, it makes me think of the narrative that they have been parroting about Titus's mistress who doesn't even get her own name. Like, they talk about, oh, she was so embarrassing. She tried to cover herself up. And like, she was like a fucking mess. And I'm like, well, we don't know, did she start her walk out also proud with her head held high? And they stripped even that from her story just like they took everything else as they're doing to Cersei here. Yeah. Ugh.

And something that really sticks out in this passage this time is just the total breakdown, especially around Jaime and Robert. At least it reminds you of Jane Poole, right? What Jane says to Theon that, at least I was pretty. It wasn't Sansa, but at least I was pretty. They always said I was pretty. And same with Cersei. It's just like Jane and her frostbite that just happened in the sacrifice. We literally just see it a chapter or two ago. And here, they've taken the one thing that Cersei had, which was her beauty. And that is a tool and a weapon that she gets to wield and

yield in defense and against. And something about the validity that she seeks from Jamie and Robert, at least have something, right? Like they at least thought I was beautiful. So obviously it meant something. Obviously that's a objective fact. Um, it reminds me, right. This all encompassing. Yeah. obviously that's an objective fact. It reminds me a lot of the movie Double Indemnity. So it's a

noir. It's a 1944 noir film. And I think about Aeswaf a lot in the context of noir. I've talked before about Ned Stark's arc in the first book being like a film noir arc as him as the solitary detective, right, up against the femme fatale, up against the King's Landing gangsters. This movie follows basically the main character is a femme fatale and there's an insurance salesman who gets roped into a scheme that she's running. Her name's Phyllis. She's very beautiful and sensual. Barbara Stanwyck plays her. She's wonderful. But she is intent on killing her horrible, terrible husband and living off the fraudulent claim money, the accidental death claim. And so finally, she starts unraveling and she's very desperate and she's very trying to protect herself but also has

nothing to protect herself with and she's a little unhinged and at the very end the guy kind of starts to realize that she's unraveling. Fred McMurray, Walter Neff, starts to like realize she's unraveling and the end is basically a he knows that he's gonna end up being imprisoned for it but he kills her because he realizes like what she's doing to him, she'll just go on to do to someone else. The title is a double indemnity clause that doubles payouts for rare deaths, basically. Like, that's the clause, you get double the payout for a very rare death. So it's really interesting because it's a very, in a way, it's kind of psychosexual between them and the tension's very high.

And it makes me think of her not having, Cersei like not having her own money, right, without taking from the bank of debt, her own autonomy, like everything in her life, yes, has been given to her, but everything in her life could also be taken away from her. That desperation that Barbara Stanwyck's character has in this movie is very much like Cersei, like the lying, the cheating, the stealing, the telling a man he can have her tonight if it means that he's going to go do some murder for her. All of these things and these validations that she seeks, she's scared, she's desperate, she's isolated and it shows in this passage. This passage is like the most vulnerable reveal of Cersei's psyche. Now, all that said, right after this, as she gets to like the hill to go up the hill to go home, it's really not funny, but the visual is really funny to me.

So I just hope we can all laugh that she like gives a sharp cry. She covers herself and she crouches and she runs crab legged up the hill and she falls and rises, falls again, rises again. And finally she's uphill on all fours like a dog. The people up there are being terrible. They're like jeering at her, applauding her, but also that she's like crab walking up the hill. I'm not convinced George knows what a crab walk looks like.

Because I, okay, when I think of a crab walk, right? It's not like your stomach is facing down. It's like they teach it to you in elementary school. It's like this. It's like a standing crab walk. Like with your knees like pointed in basically is what he's seeing, I think is more what he means because I think she's like trying to like cover and run like her pride's truly broken she's covering I don't know why I'm demonstrating the covering and run no one's gonna see. Well I also demonstrated a crab. You did just do that.

Yeah, so. They don't know what we do for this podcast. Listen, one thing I will say, like I am such a firm believer in karma, particularly instant karma. I never laugh at people who fall and I wish I could say it's solely because I'm a good person and my moral compass, but it's also because I'm afraid of karma because I feel like falling in public is one of my worst fears. So it's like, I shall not. I've already fallen this year in public, so. I fall in public quite a bit. Yeah. I wanna be like Ava on that elementary.

If I fall, just kind of turn it into this. Hey. You know? Wow. This Olympic gymnastics mat routine. That's what I felt like when I fell for what it's worth. Like I like saw myself going down. I put my wrist out.

I hit with my butt. I was like, yep, saw that coming. And then I just popped myself right back up. Everyone was like, are you OK? I was like, I'm great. I'm really great. The whole next two days, I realized my arm hurt really bad. And I was like, why is my arm hurt so bad?

And then my roommate looked at me and he goes, you fell. And I'm like, oh, fuck, that did happen. Shit, I did do that. Listen, in our 20s, we are finding our bodies are not so... Getting older. Yeah, in our 20s. 20s is weird. We are most definitely not a bunch of 30-somethings older people.

Well, I'm certainly not, but maybe you two old babies. Yeah. When I see people fall, I've actually run towards a person and like, oh my god, I'm the best person ever. No, like, yeah, anyways, but I'm also a person again, who falls a lot in public. So Cersei has seen the shades of a lot of blasts from the past and genuinely handled it like a compose boss. Like, do you

remember on the Lion King when Scar was like, Saurabi? You know, and she like, listen, the way Saurabi was walking past those hyenas with her head held up high, like, bitch, you know, I feel like that's how Cersei has handled her walk so far. However, the thing that broke her is Maggie. Out of everything else she's handled it like a boss but and it just comes to show how all encompassing Maggie's prophecy is to Cersei's identity. That's a good point. Yeah. I mean, who would she be without the prophecy?

It's an interesting like that like question. Like as you put it. Oh, yeah Huh? Yeah, I really like that observation. That's what finally gets her Well, then the crowd parts it dissolves shows over Meryn Trant, Boros Blount and the sound of her uncle it dissolves, shows over, Maren Trant borrows Blount and the sound of her uncle giving orders can be heard. She cries for her son. And Kevin said, No son should have to bear witness to his mother's shame. Harshly. That wasn't I'm sorry, a very harsh voice. But whatever I imagine it was. He commands them to cover her up and Jocelyn, oh, Jocelyn wraps her in a green blanket. Jocelyn. And it would be so happy. That's his favorite character. Do you know that? Of like all time? He loves her. He loves Jocelyn from Boss Burgers. All he does is talk about how much he loves her. Like she'll be on Hillbilly. That's my favorite character. Jocelyn.

Okay, and then we come to the close of Cersei Chatham. A shadow fell across them both, blotting out the sun. The queen felt cold steel slide beneath her, a pair of great armored arms lifting her off the ground, lifting her up into the air as easily as she had lifted Joffrey when he was still a babe. A giant, thought Cersei, dizzy, as he carried her with great strides toward the gatehouse. She had heard that giants could still be found in the godless wild beyond the wall. That is just a tale. Am I dreaming? No. Her savior was real. Eight feet tall, or maybe taller, with legs as thick around as trees.

He had a chest worthy of a plow horse, and shoulders that would not disgrace an ox. His armor was plate steel, enameled white and bright as a maiden's hopes, and worn over gilded mail. A great helm hid his face. From its crest streamed seven silken plumes in the rainbow colors of the faith. A pair of golden seven-pointed stars clasped his billowing cloak as, at the shoulders, a white cloak. Sir Kevin had kept his part of the bargain. Tommen, her precious little boy, had named her champion to the Kingsguard. Cersei never saw where Qyburn came from, but suddenly he was there beside them, scrambling to keep up with her champion's long strides. Your Grace, it is so good to have you back. May I have the honor of presenting our newest

member of the Kingsguard? This is Ser Robert Strong. Ser Robert, Cersei whispered as they entered the gates. If it please Your Grace, Ser Robert has taken a holy vow of silence. He has sworn that he will not speak until all of his grace's enemies are dead and evil has been driven from the realm. Yes, thought Cersei. Oh, yes. Yo, banger. Yo, and Cersei Lannister thinks that we should be worried. Yeah.

Cool A man. And it's like, oh yes. He's like, I've got a job. I'm here. He's like, I've got a reason to keep Cersei going. Me, I'm the reason. It is so good to have you back. Holy shit. You know how incompetent

everybody that served on your council was? Well, not me. Imagine you not being here. I think everybody was looking at him like Gaga was in the Golden Rule music video from was in the Golden Rule music video from like Justin Timberlake and Adam or Andy Samberg when they're rolling around the covers and she's like eating the cereal. You guys are still here. Yeah, you guys are still literally. Obviously, Kevin tells the change of who's gone and who's who in the zoo. But isn't that so funny? She's coming back somehow. All of Kevin's work was just undone and I cannot wait to see that happen. That isn't done, this is life.

Yeah. There's definitely an emphasis in this last chapter and the last one, and from what we've heard of how much Cersei regards the birth of Joffrey as the happiest day of her life as symbolic of her relationship with symbolic, right, of her relationship with Jamie, her defiance against Robert, even against her father, whether she knows it or not, and that Joffrey was perfect. That everything about Joffrey's birth was golden and perfect and angelic and all the things she loves most in herself, which coincidentally are the things that she loves most in Jamie. You even have it here, right, of the feelings, right, of like her children and the feeling here, lifting her up into the air as easily as she lifted Joffrey when he

was still a babe. That's her focus now. Her children are in her mind, you know, the one beautiful thing she's ever created. Ever. It's great to see that equated in her moment of terror, of trauma, of exhaustion as something sweet and good. And I like how the end we kind of have this Echo of Sansa's riot chapter, right, of Sandor Clegane lifting her up and saving her at the end of a riot.

The chapter does have that same structure, that same travel pattern. Very interesting, but of course with Gregor instead of Sandor and Kevin instead of Tyrion. So probably the worst options you could have. Last thing I want to point out is Ser Robert Strong as a holy knight. Interesting that he's cosplaying, right? Cersei maybe will be harnessing the faith and religious power in Tiwau. Maybe a little bit now that she's kind of defeated their fucking challenge. Considering we have Dani having R'hllor and Aegon maybe popping together with the Faith. We'll see what Cersei does here, but Ser Robert Strong is dressed like a holy knight with rainbow clasps and cloaks and stars and the whole nine yards.

In Kevin's point of view chapter, Kevin has this thought where, ah yes, Cersei, we've de-clawed her, she's more demure, she's more mindful, she's more cutesy right now, and she definitely plays up the part. And she has this slight moment where the mask kind of drops, where she like, they're talking about his wife, and how he hasn't seen his wife in forever, and she's like, yes, a woman must know their place and he's like what she's like what. It's definitely the angle that she's going to use because like, listen, of tywin's children, we can kind of do this with all three of them and like, yeah, with Tyrion, it's more hypothetical, but let's just pretend like that, that theory hypothesis that he loses his tongue comes to fruition. You have Jaime, who we've all dissected him losing his sword hand and what that meant for his identity. And it changed him. You know, subjectively,

we can say for the better, but he has permanently changed. Tyrion, if he loses his tongue, we all know. We all know that's going to change him. I don't know if it would make him worse or better. Remains to be seen. You know, but like Cersei, her identity was wrapped up in her beauty. But as she's pointed out before of the three siblings, her change would not be permanent. And as she very ominously says, like hair grows back, you know, the faith and Kevin believe that they've declawed her and they've stripped her bare, but she's really not going anywhere. And she's going to get her licks back in and she's going to like, she's going to sneak

attack them with it with acting Demure and all this other stuff. And here's the thing. I finally think that Cersei is coming into herself being the Tywin with teats that she always wanted to be. Because if anything, if if anything this walk has strengthened her resolve and shown her like okay my last approach with the impulsivity that didn't work i think she's ready to be patient i think that's that's a really interesting point and a patient cersei a patient cersei she might just do more fucking damage than Tywin Lannister. She might be right on the mark on that one.

So I'm just saying, you know, like just like Burlesque when when when when Cher was singing that one song. You haven't seen the last of me. Yeah. She's not out of the game yet. That's for sure. No, I really love that point because if she no longer can rely on her beauty. Like, yeah, Tyrion is changed. He's like, taken a darker turn as well. But he's even more, I think, ruthless in some ways as well. Like, are we going to see that out of Cersei? If she can't rely on her beauty, she has to step it up. Like, she can rely on her beauty maybe later. But for now, she has to step it up in all of the other ways. Like, is she going to be even more, even more ruthless and even more kind of?

Yeah, is she gonna get worse? I'm excited. I love that. I'm a big like I'm a big not I can fix him. I can make him worse. Yeah. No, I really like that pointing out and like, she's not declawed. They've given her a little trim. But claws also grow back. I know this because it was so hard to trim the claws on my chihuahua growing up. We're talking about the magic in Circe's storyline as well. And I kind of am like now thinking about her even as a mirror to Bran's storyline, which also kind of mirrors Tyrion's in some ways too, right? Because

they're removed from physical power and the masculinity that it affords, and so they turn to the usage of another man's body. They usurp it for strength, and both of those maybe descendants of Sir Dunk the Lunk when it comes to Gregor and Hodor. So I haven't like thought much about this until like this read, but you know, it is really interesting that they've chosen to name or that I assume that she agreed to this name of calling the knight Sir Robert Strong because Robert is a name that has a lot of weight

for her story. It's the man that hurt her and And she's re appropriating that to become someone who's not going to hurt her but who serves her right the other way around using this person's body and it's corrupting the name of that king. And she's using this man's body in the way that her body was also used right. And through that is sort of doing this fantasy like fulfillment, this wish fulfillment of how Robert as her husband perhaps should have actually been her protector, but yet was instead her abuser. And so also using his name for a night that would exonerate her of the crimes that she

allegedly committed against him. So it becomes this like reclamation of his name for her own service. And then also strong, like as his last name. Sure. Yeah, we know about the house strong, whatever we've watched House of the Dragon, but it reduces this man to only his physical aspects the way that Cersei her whole life has only been reduced to her physical aspects. So I'd be really interested to see as Winds of Winter and I would say even a Dream of Spring, because I do think she might survive into there. Like, I'd be interested to see how this dynamic between them develops, because she's using his body the way that men's bodies in this society are used and wasted, the way that uses and waste hodors body and he fulfills

all that she wanted Jamie to fulfill as an extension of herself and will in that physical aspect. Yeah, that's interesting. I just paid a little that was yeah. I do love that like, look, who is this new seven foot man that showed up in King's Landing? Sir Robert Strong. Who could it be? Huh? I'm going to make over. Oh my god. It's like Jean Parmesan on Arrested Development. Jean!

I'm really going to miss this chick. Yeah. What do you think about- Yeah, as we're closing up, what do you think about the rest of Circe's life chapters, thoughts, story in general, Alicia? Oh god, I really think that her chapters are gonna be so exciting to read, but I do think that it's gonna end on a very tragic note that not bringing them down might make us feel bad about all the laughing we have done.

The laughing. But her whole arc is definitely not even an allegory because it comes out and says it about prophecy because her prophecy is not the only prophecy in the books. And that is why I'm so like staunch to agree with you, like she's not going nowhere till the very end. Her story needs to fulfill a little bit and it's not going to fulfill till the end. She's going to be one of the last bitches standing, but I do. She's about to fuck shit up. She's about to really, because here's the thing, like she's got Tywin's ruthlessness. What made Tywin so effective? I mean, he was wrong. He was dead ass wrong. But it's because he didn't shirk from the fucked up shit. Neither

does she. And she's the only of Tywin's children that doesn't shirk from it. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Gotta give her that. What do you think it's gonna be like directly post Kevin for her? That's a really good question. I don't know. I think she's gonna show up like nothing happened. Like sit down at the head of the table and all the new men will come in and she'll be like, you need to leave, you need to leave. I did not appoint you. I did not appoint you. Uh, delete that one, delete that one. Tom and Simon new one. It's a no from me.

I wonder if she'll keep Tarly. Hmm. You know, and he'll be a betrayer. Yeah, because he's definitely the friend in the Reach. Yeah, he's definitely one of the friends in the Reach. Absolutely. Yeah, he's got to stick around. He's got to stick around. I mean, he's going to turn Aegon and take all of the Reach's armies is what I think. I think he'll be, and they'll follow him because they respect him as a commander, and they probably don't respect Mace as much As him when it comes to command. Oh, yeah, he's no no no like he's definitely gonna usurp that shit

Mm-hmm also with Kevin gone seriously is kind of like kind of gets to be a little bit first in command She is I mean, she already was the lady of cast really rock But it's it's a difficult role to play because now they all kind of disrespect her even more, but she does have more power, arguably, than she did before with Kevin Dead. Yeah, like she absorbed him, like succubist him. Like Selle? Yeah.

Oh, I was thinking Selle is the one. Yeah, that kind of too, though. Like she just kind of like absorbed his power in within her. First of all, twofold question. Do we think Margaery's making it out of her trial? Question one. Question two. Do you think like in the fan fiction, Margaery was the one that took on this super pious persona when she was let out of the set? do you think that's gonna be Cersei instead? Like she's totally gonna front, like she's like, yes, it purified me. That might be her best angle at the moment. That would be interesting to play reformed.

Yeah. I could see the reformed, especially with Robert's outfit here. Yeah, I'll be cooking. But also, so I think Marjorie does survive her trial because it's by the faith. And it seems just based on timing of things with some of the sample chapters that there might be a hint that she's survived already. Like that trial has happened when we opened Tiwau, or that it's happening. Cersei's is like going to be the interesting one. And I think there's a chance for her to probably, I mean, I've always been a little partial to the faith having Lancel as their champion. Like I've always liked that because he is formally trained, even if he's not right now what you'd expect as a fighter, he is formally

trained by a master in fighting at arms. Like, I don't know. So I just I'm curious. I think her trial could be a shit show in a fun way. And I think Marjory's won't even be watched. You know, like, I don't think we'll see it at all. Yeah, I think it'll just be like, they're good. They're holy. interesting either way. Like if Sir Robert Strong, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, like if he made short work of whoever he was going up against, then you'd have this really interesting narrative of like that just further proves my innocence beyond a shadow of the doubt, da da da da da. But it would be good reading to kind of like, we all know she's gonna make it, but it would be good reading for a good fight to bite your nails, be like, Oh, what's going to happen? So either way, I'd be pretty satisfied. Yeah. I kind of go between the two, right? Like, I don't know if I think that she's going

to make it the whole way. There are two camps. I think she's either going to make it the entire way until the end of the story. And that means Jamie does too, because I really, for me, like that's my controlled variable like I think that Jamie and her are they are linked and I won't fuck with what ain't broken I think that they got to be a part of that ending together but I also think there is a way to do it cleanly in the winds of winter by like the end of winds that in my book she flees King's Landing she goes west to the westerlands Jamie here here, she's still alive, they die in Casterly Rock together. I could see that. I think to your points, Alicia,

I think there's a lot to confront about the story that no one wants to confront that the domestic violence, the partner violence that might be happening here with Jamie and Cersei and that it could be echoed if there's any merit in the show ending, it could be echoed, right? Two of your major, major sets of characters die together or kill one another or etc. through domestic violence and partner violence and what that says to the story and I think people aren't ready to confront that either. In the words of Elphaba, I just had a vision almost like a prophecy. Fun little tin foil thing. I'm not married to it. No one come for my throat. But what if, hear me out,

hear me out. Okay. Someone. What if Cersei, because no matter what I do think, you know, her and your honor are going to link up. Hear me out. Jamie will have survived his ordeal with Catlyn Stark, which will leave him absolutely shook because reanimated dead all this other stuff. What if Cersei gets drowned, reanimates like revived by the Drowned God and Jamie basically kind of in his mind mercy kills because he's so haunted by what he saw with cat I'm not married to it I'm just like okay that would be that would be tragic that would be something just saying yeah I'm not I think I'm here for undead Queen Cersei yeah I had never considered it I'm interested because

because I'm convinced she's the Queen that's in your arms or I kind of think yeah, like Aaron damp hairs vision, I think it's her just because of the whole like, slender imagery and all like, I'm just not convinced it's Danny even though Danny likes her bad boys. Yeah, I think Danny's gonna be a little bit busy with bag on going up north, dealing with all that other stuff. I just don't know if there's like narratively time for her to come across Euron. And I do like that idea that Lord of the Rings kind of idea of her and Euron potentially being final boss, right? And like that they have to actually come back and like kill all them.

I do like that kind of concept too. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if she's like final boss or anything. But I do think that like, as you were saying, Jamie and Circe storylines are intertwined with one another. I think she's a little right when one goes out, the other goes out too, even if he is like part of her demise. But I do think that the death of Jamie is critical for Tyrion's development and storyline.

And I think Tyrion makes it to the end, whether it's as a, you know, kind of like a, what is his name? Like, I think his name is Arryn and Titus Andronicus, or like, no, no, like Iago, like an Iago, like an Iago, no, I wanna switch, I wanna change my mind. Whether it's like as an Iago like character in Othelloello, right? Like, why the fuck did you do all this shit? I don't know. Um, you know, and like, so I do think that because of that seriously makes it a lot longer than

people think. Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Okay. They're all all their face are intertwined, those three Lannister siblings. They're themes, they're all wrapped up in one another. Yeah, I do feel that, that they are very wrapped within another. But I think something Badge Joe did that I do like is a lot of Tyrion, I think his decision-making and the things that he does are going to be absolutely also unhinged because of his family members and because of the confusing love he has for these siblings of his, whether or not they've treated each other while it's confusing. So I think that's going to be interesting. They've got to all somewhat be around at the

same times to get maximum effect. So George, give me a book. I'm ready. Throw it at me, boss. Well, Alicia, thank you so much for closing out. I'm like really morose about closing this out. I'm really glad that you could at least be here. It makes me feel better about it all, but I'm very sad to be leaving Cersei. This was a blast. Can you tell everyone where to find you on the internet once more? I am on Twitter, which I refuse to call the new name. I will always dead name Twitter at totes not Alice totes not Alice and you can find me on blue sky at still not Alice all in one

just understand I am not Alice and you can find me on YouTube along with my lovely co-hosts on Dire Wolf City. And we talks about the AceWolfs. And tons more. You guys are always talking about stuff. Anything good coming up that you might talk about? Not AceWolf? I don't want to say too much, but I will say we have definitely toyed with the idea of going through the Anne Rice novels.

But I know that that would be cool if you did. Yeah, I know Grey Area and Aura, they definitely wanna cover some Dune stuff. You know, we are a house divided, you know, Aura and Grey Area, they're like, Dune! Me and Nim, we're just kind of like, it's beige. It's a beige movie. Enjoy. It's really confusing, Worm people. Yay.

You know, so we'll see. But we will definitely be back for Dunkin' Egg. Yeah. And and you never know. You never know who might make a comeback. I'm just saying. Uh oh. Seems like a hint. Is this Robert Strong? Oh my god. The Gregor Fugain show? You're Robert Strong. Well, it was a blast chatting Cersei with you. I look forward to seeing you guys at your house again sometime soon. It was great to have you to our house though this time. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

You guys got the good snacks here. Yes. So hungry actually. Me too. You guys got the good snacks here. Yes. So hungry, actually. Me too. We will again be taking some time off in between this episode and Daenerys one in a game of Thrones. We will be pausing the Patreon in February.

So friends that are over at the Patreon do not fret you're not missing anything. We have just taken a little pause a little breather which we we have announced over there as well by the time of you listening to this episode. We'll return after we're buttoned up and ready to dive into the world of Daenerys Targaryen, and we might even put an episode out in between, so keep your eyes peeled on that stream. And of course we will still have our Patreon episode for Patrons in the Stranger Tier and above for January. So one last one last little thing before we go on break this month. And you and I will also be joining some of our friends

over on a different stream. Yeah I believe it will be coming out in the next few weeks for both of us. We'll be streaming and we'll tell you here since it's the last time you'll hear it, that we will be on Sanri Scribbles over with Sanrixian separately though, covering some chapters from the Winds of Winter. That's right. Winds of Winter sample chapters. And you might be surprised at what chapters your hosts picked. We did not pick Elaine lane and I was really hyped

to see what you chose. I didn't go too far away, but I went a little down the lane from our usual. So I think I'll get to talk a little bit more about King's Landing in mine than you might, but we'll all will be revealed. All must choose. All must choose. Well, of course, if you still want to keep up with whenever we come back in our other exploits please follow us on social media we are still girls gone cannon on both twitter and on blue sky that's c a n o n and of course if you have any emails and thoughts for us during this time if you like mess us or something you know you can at girls gone canon at gmail.com my god send us a love note please um we will miss you guys for a month i'm sure in fact i'll start getting the phantom itch every recording day that we usually record i'll be like oh should we be recording or should you and i still do calls like as well i mean how else am i gonna fucking talk to you yeah i know no no no, for real. I'm like, check your calendar. If you want to

find out where you can listen to us and you haven't subscribed to us on a platform, our patrons will tell you where. Go ahead, patrons. You can catch Girls Gone Cannon on any of the following streamers. on Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Spotify, Overcast, Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio, Audible, and Amazon podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the thunder tier above, you have access to a Discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the Discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, fashion hour, there are multiple channels for historic materials, a song of ice and fire, there's a pet channel which i

think is probably the most important channel of all. Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community, it's a lot of fun, and you won't regret it. Yes, our patrons are the best. Thanks, y'all, for telling them where to find us. Patreon.com slash girlsgoncanon one last time. If you are a patron, you get a bunch of perks. $5 and up is stranger tier. That is the tier where you get bonus episodes apart

from the $10 and up tier lifelong thunder tier. You get access to the discord with the bajillion channels and we also usually do a brunch slash happy hour. January's is I believe the 19th. We're doing it. So it's like just a couple of days. Come hang out with us if you want and we'll be back in March with the next one. As always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Alicia, for giving us your time. And like, this was, you really helped us wrap up this POV and this chapter. Thank you for being here. No, this was a treat and it was not sound like a fangirl but I am like this was a huge honor. Absolutely huge honor. So it was honor to have you. It was a pleasure to have you not just an honor. It was a pleasure. Pleasure. All right. Oh my god. We'll see you guys in March.