Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 253 — ACOK Daenerys II

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

In the greatest city of the world, Daenerys receives a wonderful gift. ---- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon reads a song of ice and fire, episode 253, Daenerys II, and a clash of kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Hello, we have added a new area to our map. Imagine that this is inspired by the Game of Thrones intro song that came first and a new place is popping up. Or maybe it's inspired by the map from in the Lost Lands. Oh, good call. Very true.

We are out in the Lost Lands with Daenerys today. She's come upon a very crazy palace with some very crazy people within that we're going to explore If you haven't you should explore the Lost Lands with us though Patrons in the stranger tier and above get access to bonus episodes every month Previously they were given in the Lost Lands the story by George RR Martin Which I kind of think is superior, but we can get into all of that in the episode we just put out for patrons in The Stranger Here and Above, which is In the Lost Lands, PWSA's version. PWS Anderson, of course, Paulie Anderson. But yes,

his version, his version of In the Lost Lands. And it was actually very interesting, very thrilling. You'll get to hear how we scored it in this episode. You have to go sign up at patreon.com slash girls gone canon to gain that access. And you will not be just throwing your money away because there is a whole archive of episodes over there. And among the archive of episodes is of course, our coverage of The Hunger

Games, which we are making our way through. We've already wrapped up our coverage of the first Hunger Games book called The Hunger Games, and our very first episode which covers Act 1 of that book is out for the public, but if you want more you can find it on our Patreon and if you want even more we're continuing our podcasting about it this month, June, and we are starting the second book, Catching Fire. And with our second book comes our first Hunger Games guest, our good friend Ara, i.e. Zebra, is coming on the podcast. Can't wait to have her back. The critically acclaimed Ara, as some legends have also said, being me.

But no, Ara's like the guest to have. You have to check out her YouTube channel. She has videos on the Hunger Games on the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. T-Boss ass. It's easier to just call it T-Boss Ass, but she has videos upon that. Done tons of episodes with her. She's amazing. I love when she gets to come over to our house.

Can't wait to have Aura. I'm really excited to have her on. I've even been doing homework and reading two more whole books just so that she can really just dig in and give you her full brain. She might have given it to you anyway, but like I would have held her back, but now I'm trying not to. And that's not the only cool guest we have this month.

We have another guest coming on soon. Oh yeah. For Daenerys, but not this, I can't tell you now. Next week though, I'm allowed to tell you. Next week, get ready. You're gonna find out about our first Clash of Kings Daenerys guest. No reason that's coming up at the same time.

Actually, if you listen to our Patreon episode for May, or any of the Error in the Lost Lands coverage, if you think about it, if you think about it, there's a bit of a hint about who our next guest is gonna be. Unintentionally. Wow. It's like we planned it, but we didn't. But we did have brunch this month. And if you're in the thunder tier or above at our Patreon,

you get access to our Discord where there are channels upon channels to talk about whatever you want to get your letterbox added to the feed, the letterbox feed. That's a fun feed. I love that channel. Actually it's popping. Everyone's watching movies.

Yeah, I go in there and I look at all the movies everyone's watching and in my head, I agree with them or disagree with their ratings, but I like them all the same. Like I love them all the same, but that's a fun channel lately. The Food is Good channel is always popping. So wreck that one and brunch is popping.

6 29, June 29th from 2 p.m. ET to 4 p.m. ET we will be gathering. I don't know what's going on the Letterboxd channel because I've never seen any movies, but I do watch a lot of TV and I've been giving random- You should get a serialized. What's that? It's basically a Letterboxd for TV serialized. I have one. No one uses it except me. I love it. I have a Discord channel for that where I just put my desperate housewives random thoughts

or my hacks random thoughts. So you never know. You could like it. You could like it. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe. Well, we've gotten a plethora of emails and tweets of note to get through. We're gonna feature one this week, a big thank you to those sending us your thoughts. We will respond, I'm sure, soon.

I know I saw an email from our good friend Lo, who, no spoilers, but I think you might be hearing their voice on another podcast pretty soon, talking about maybe a topic. I don't know, I don't know. I just have heard rumors. I've heard rumors, but you can also listen to them on their podcast over at Ragman's Harbor. Go check it out. I got a couple other emails. We will get you guys some responses. Thank you for sending them in. And I'm excited about this email. Also, Eliana geeked out a little bit, not to blow her cover. She's really cool.

Eliana is cool as a cucumber, but she definitely, you were uncool. You were like very like nerdy about this and it was cute. It was actually so cute. It was so uncool that it was cool maybe. I don't know. I think that's my brand maybe, or that's what I do. It's like a horseshoe.

It's horseshoe theory, but Eliana's coolness. Yeah. No, big dad energy, like nerdy dad energy. I could see you in a golf polo and some higher waisted cargo shorts. I don't wear polos. That's probably for the better. Too powerful. I do wear short sleeve button-ups, right?

Or Hawaiian-esque patterned shorts. Yeah, you do be dadding though. But I don't do polos, in case any of you were wondering. If you wanted to picture Eliana on the regular. It's never in a polo. Never. Yes, we received an email, and I was very excited to receive this one

from Dr. Kavita Mutan-Fin, who says, "'I am a long-time listener listener but have been going out of order, so please don't judge. We do not judge. All I ask is please tell us the order because I'm always curious. I always want to know like what is the journey that people have built for themselves as they listen to our podcast. Oh my god, it kind of seems like they're listening to us with the Feast for Crows read while

not a cast does it too. Yeah. And every reading feast. So like going by book. Oh, that's clever. That's kind of interesting. Yeah. You know, like in order. Yeah. Like of how they were written and how they're supposed to be read. Don't understand. People do that. I don't know how to do that. So clever. Never like. No, but that's like really fun. I bet it's really thorough and I'm really curious how it stacks up. Yeah. So yeah, Dr. Finn does say that she's been listening, followed by not a cast, going

through the latest Feast reread. Dr. Finn says, I've been particularly delighted with your Daenerys coverage on top of your excellent Circe analysis. Thank you. And this most recent one was a total banger. She puts the mess in Messianic, snaps to Chloe, nearly caused me to run a red light. I was laughing so hard. Not snaps to Chloe. Oh my god. Don't kill people. Don't blame me for your actions.

I didn't do this. Take accountability. Nobody's dead. It's fun. Yeah, fun. That being said, what I'm always reminded of in this last chapter, other than Hamlet, of course, is the final scene from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra, where Cleopatra prepares for death. And some context here, Dr. Finn sent this, I think,

a little bit after listening to our episode on A Game of Thrones Scenaries 9. So that's one where we talked extensively about Shakespeare. Well, not that extensively, but kind of. And quotes, Methinks I hear Antony call. I see him rouse himself to praise my noble act. I hear him mock the luck of Caesar, which the gods give men, to excuse their after wrath. Husband, I come. there after wrath. Husband, I come. Now to that name my courage prove my title. I am fire and air. My other elements I give to base her life." Dr. Finn says, those last two lines in particular, am I right? There's also that incredible balance between eroticism and death a bit later after one of her handmaidens dies. To quote, have I the aspic on my lips, dost fall? If thou in nature can so gently part, the stroke of death is as a lover's pinch,

which hurts and is desired. Dost thou lie still? If thus thou vanishesst, thou tell'st the world it is not worth leave taking. Dr. Finn elaborates that Cleopatra is much older than Danny, at least in the play, but historically the two have more than a little in common. Dr. Finn says she also read my essay ages ago, which yeah, I forgot. It's been a while now, I guess. It may be back in 2019 when I posted it. Wow. And enjoyed it but doesn't remember Antony and Cleopatra coming up in it so thought that she would mention Anne too, keep up the good work. But um yeah I don't think I talked about Antony and Cleopatra in that at all. Part two? Daughter of Death part two? No I don't need to! I don't want you to not understand. Part two! I don't need to write anything ever again.

I don't watch movies. Part two! That's how I felt after Ashara Dane Part Two and then I was like, what if I never finished a five part series I had planned? Ha ha ha! Wait a second. I do have, I do have like a part two planned for another one of my essays, like if we ever get wins and there's more in it to elaborate upon for it, but uh, not for this one!

Not for this one, not for this one. I get that. I've got a lot of unfinished essays, but someday there's going to be a free on my brain fog. Yeah. Like someone frees me. Someone's gonna free me, whether it's free her medicine, or I find like spirituality, I don't know, but someday I'm gonna write an essay again. It's gonna happen for me, but you know, I've just kind of been creatively blocked

on writing an essay for like seven years because I write here. We write here. We write instead of essays, love notes to each other. That's what this is. Love notes to each other, love notes to you guys. I mean, I'm real about that. Yeah. Yeah. This podcast is a love letter and an essay to you every week Yeah, I hope you enjoy it. Yes I did actually write back to dr. Finn though, and I will share with all of you here some of that I did love the comparison with Antoni and Cleopatra because I do think that There is a lot of Cleopatra's like various depictions throughout history that George is drawing on and like in media and is drawing on with his depiction of Daenerys. For example, he's

always like, yeah, well, people did have like violet eyes or whatever in in real life and will always point to Elizabeth Taylor. And there are like some aspects of you ever watch Elizabeth Taylor's performance as Cleopatra that feels to me very Daenerys. Like there's a time that she tells one of her, this might come up again, we might bring it up again in Storm. Daenerys tell, not Daenerys, see, see, see. Cleopatra tells someone not to contradict her

and it feels like Daenerys later on telling Jorah, don't do that, don't undercut me in public, which makes sense. One thing that I've always thought stood out to me about Cleopatra in this play is Anna Barbas's description, which is, I will tell you the barge she sat in like a burnished throne, burned on the water, the poop was beaten gold, purple the sails and so perfumed that the winds were lovesick with them, the oars were silver, which to the tune of flutes kept stroke and made the water which they beat to follow faster, as amorous as their strokes. For her own person it beggared all description. She did lie in her

pavilion, cloth of gold of tissue, or picturing that Venus where we see the fancy, out-ridden nature. On each side would her stood pretty dimpled boys, like smiling cupids with diverse colored fans whose winded seam to glow the delicate cheeks which they did cool. And what they undid did. Her gentlewoman like the naryids, so many mermaids, tended her in the eyes and made their beads adornings at the helm, a seeming mermaid steers the silk and tackle, swell with the touches of those flower-soft hands that yearly frame the office. From the barge a strange invisible perfume hits the scents of the adjustment wharfs. The city cast her pupil out upon her in Antony, enthroned

at the palace place did sit alone, whistling to the air, but for vacancy, had gone to gaze on Cleopatra too, and made a gap in nature. Upon her landing, Antony sent to her, invited her to supper. She replied, it should be better he became her guest, which she entreated, our courteous Antony, whom there the word no, women heard speak, being barbered ten times o'er, goes to the feast, and for his ordinary pays his heart, for what his eyes eat only and so they basically talk about how amazing and incredible Cleopatra is right and she's supposed to be known as like very beautiful she's called like rare Egyptian by Agrippa but at no point do they ever actually describe Cleopatra and what she looks like. All of her beauty is attributed to these things that surround her, all these symbols and the and the sort of mythos that gets built around her and never actually her. And I feel like that's actually, I feel like that's very similar to the way that builds from there and rises and she becomes like

the narrative that she's in, she actually becomes it, right? Like she becomes that figurehead. And it's great because like Cleopatra starts with a civil war, right? With her. So like, I think that there's so much in Cleopatra being echoed with Dani, even like, Tolemy is sent out to the desert at one point in 63s, you know, like he's sent out to the desert and there's even just some remixing of some of the beats we're like, oh, she poisoned this leader's mind or whatever. And the way that the Dothraki are blaming her for Drogo and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. She did do a little blood magic. Just a little light blood magic. Just a little. Can't a girl do blood magic? If a girl can't do blood magic, what can she fucking do? Nothing these days in this economy. Girl, the tariffs.

Girl, the tariffs. Girl, the tariffs. Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful email. I really want to get off of this call and go watch 1963's movie now. It's fucking long.

It's like three hours. I know. You know who would be watching that? My roommate. I feel, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I've been watching it a long time. You can go on Letterboxd about it. Just to hop. You can go on the Letterboxd feed channel about it if you really want.

On our Discord. Well, here's what you missed. This is a long one, I didn't cut it down, so get ready, we're gonna go real quick. This is gonna be a real lightning round. What you missed between Daenerys I and Daenerys II in a clash of kings starting with Jon II. At White Tree, Jon and Jeyor wonder what Benjen thought about all of the abandoned villages. Arya IV, the Lannister men, ride to arrest Gendry once more, and this time it turns into a battle. Arya leads the survivors to safety, even the three criminals. Tyrion 3. Janice's tweet about Cersei's illegitimate children goes viral, so King's Landing starts their own

viral campaign against him, but they spend a lot of money and they really don't get the clicks. Oh my god, propaganda we're not falling for. Bran 2. Bran holds a harvest feast. Tyrion IV, three treasons Tyrion shall lay at the feet of his colleagues aka how to smoke out a rat. Mmm, we just talked about that too even a little last chapter. Sansa too, Sansa finds that her knight is a fool and that there are no true knights. Real like Jorah, not a true knight, Arya,

done. Wow. You're not even like in it yet. I know. I do hear this shit, Jesus. Arya five. I had to think about that. I'm like, damn, she's got five fucking chapters already. Crazy. Arya five. Gendry unmasks Arya's true identity, and then he is subsequently captured by the mountain and his men, who then also kill Lami. Also Tyrion has five chapters, because here we are at Tyrion V. After a fruitful day in the Hall of Pyromancers, Tyrion snares his prey thanks to Cersei.

Bran III. At the Harvest Feast, Bran meets a very peculiar duo from Greywater Watch. Later he dreams of the reeds visiting the wolves in the Godswood. Ketelin 2. Ketelin plays envoy to Renly at Bitterbridge, where a great melee is taking place. Brienne, the champion, joins Renly's rainbow guard. They hear that Stannis has besieged Storm's End. They didn't. John 3. John discovers a dark secret at Craster's Keep. Mance Rayder begins to gather free folk at Frostfangs. That's a pretty bad secret. Not even that secret, that's what's worse about it. Theon, too.

Theon feels up his sister. daddy hates him. Daddy. Daddy. Daddy. Tyrion VI. I don't have time for this I am not getting into this with you. Daddy. Are we a couple? Are we a couple? We're not a couple. Tyrion VI. Tyrion does quite a many things in the Baratheon administration today, including rejecting peace terms, dismissing the whites, also arresting Pycelle. Arya VI. Arya graduates from some trauma to even more trauma and gets a job with a lease. Aw. Employed. True. Child labor. So cute. I'm glossing over all that. Daenerys too. Daenerys receives some birthday gifts, maybe? A welcome celebration to Carth, free rent, and Robert Baratheon is fucking dead. Yeah, I guess it isn't her birthday.

It seems it. Yeah. It happened at some point. Time's not real in this story. I know. We open this chapter with, On the walls of Carth, Men beat gongs to herald her coming, while others blew curious horns that encircled their bodies like great bronze snakes. A column of camelry emerged

from the city as her honor guards. The riders wore scaled copper armor and snouted helms with copper tusks and long black silk plumes, and sat high on saddles inlaid with rubies and garnets. Their camels were dressed in blankets of a hundred different hues. Their camels were dressed in blankets of a hundred different hues. Carth is the greatest city that ever was or ever will be, Piat Pree had told her, back amongst the bones of Vase Taloro. It is the center of the world, the gate between north and south, the bridge between east and west, ancient beyond memory of man, and so magnificent at Sathos the Wise, put out his eyes after gazing upon Qarth for the first time,

because he knew that all he saw thereafter should look squalid and ugly by comparison. Those are bold words from Pyat Pree. I don't know about Greta Seale. What about Philadelphia? Yeah, have you ever been to Philadelphia or to Maine? Have you ever seen Maine? Yeah, Piat Pree. Chill. Chill. It's cool. I like it. It's pollen.

Carth seems like a lot. Yeah, and it's a pretty big deal. It is actually, you know, it is a big place of commerce and therefore on the line between north and south and east and west there. Right, very luxury goods consumer and also goods consumer in general. Yeah, yeah, the magnificence of the city is not to be denied. It's ringed by three thick elaborately carved walls. The outer wall is like 30 feet high, which could be true, could not be true, because as George has established, he's like, oh fuck, I made the wall too high after he saw the Hoover Dam, but whatever. It's carved with snakes slithering, kites flying, kites are different, fish and wolves and striped horses and elephants, zorses.

The middle is gray granite with scenes of war, heroes, babies being butchered, empires of the dead. That sounds familiar to the story. And the innermost though is made of black marble with carvings that made Dani blush at first so it's porn. No, sorry, it's hentai. And... Mm, tentacles. Yeah. Ooh. Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so thrilled about that, but... I know, I think I saw that a little too thrilled. I was like, ooh, interesting. Yeah, maybe

it is like tentacles on that wall. That could be kind of cool. I mean, I'm just curious. I didn't say I want to know about them. I do. I think I do. The outer gates are banded with copper, the middle with iron and the innermost are studded with golden eyes. And I will say, you know, like, I love this world building around Carth. George was drawing inspiration from the 2009 manga Attack on Titan when he wrote this. Oh my god. Yes. Famously. Yeah, famously. There's a lot of other things too that he might have been drawing from as well. There's other examples of walled cities, especially multi-walled cities like Constantinople with five walls and Carcassonne apparently had three and Milan at some points. The walls also make me even think a little bit of like Jericho, right, of the city with a bunch of walls that eventually fell and like also even makes me think of when we talk about horns. We've discussed this I think a long time ago probably in the John chapters, the horns and

the wall coming down, and it also makes me think of, and we'll come back to this in a few chapters maybe, like that Daenerys, I think she's going to come back to Carth. I think we have time for it. It's going to happen. And also, you know, the decadence with the way that it's portrayed with all these riches, the fact that, you know, everyone's just bearing one titty, you know, tits out and- I was wondering if we should do this tits out. Oh. Or tit out. Tit, one tit out, okay. Yeah. Intimate. Um. Hmm. Are we a couple? Um. We're not a couple. We're not a couple. And the way that last inner wall is described really gives Karth a sense of like Sodom and Gomorrah and is also part of why I think Daenerys needs to come back in this sort of like Old

Testament God kind of way. Yeah there's some unfinished business in this city for sure. I feel that. I would say and I'm really glad you brought up Jericho, Hilary Duff's song. Jericho specifically is obviously what you were talking about initially. It's always what I'm talking about. Please stream everybody stream Jericho by Hilary Duff. Also stream the new Lord album for Chloe's mental health. Yeah, it's out June 27th. But right now there are two singles out.

Man of the Year and What Was That? And you should be streaming Man of the Year especially because holy shit, what a fucking song. And Hilary Duff's Jericho was released in 2004 in case you guys wanted to know what George was listening to while writing about Danny. Yeah, it's true. You heard it here first.

He told us. This is not misinformation, yes it is. He wrote it, he was listening to it when he wrote this book specifically. There's something interesting about the walls too, that they are, of course, like the sign of the gatekeeping of Carth, right? Carth's magnificence. Carth is gate kept. It becomes clear like, yes, Carth has all of this wealth. Karth has all of these great things, but unless you do everything that the Karthene expect you to do and hit all of the impossible customs that you don't know about, and unless you bury your one tit while doing all of this,

like Selena Meyer style, unless you do all of these things, which by the way, will still reject you even if you do them perfectly. So like, but also there's a chance that if you do all these things, we might share some of that wealth with you. Right? Like that is the message like, oh, if you perform like this. And so Danny's really starting to come into these bits of these walls, right? The wealth, the magic, the security, all of it being draped in these trappings.

There's all of this, like, she's so close to achieving the things that she needs and the things that she wants and security and home, but there's always a catch. There's always a trap laid in the middle of it. And Karth, the gatekeeping of Karth and the gatekeeping of the things in Karth and her starting here and trying to crack it open and nothing happening is like such a great way to launch her arc and clash, especially

as we get into Storm and she really starts to take some of that power back where she can. That's a great analysis of, yeah, they really are hoarding it all and I think you can see the way that she starts to become really disillusioned with it. Yeah, and why it's so important to her right to bust that up Obviously like as she goes east it becomes even more apparent and like she sees what she has to do that She needs to bring fire and blood to the slaving system out east and disrupt it and change it and break it and try to build something new because it's right and

Here you can see that like she's not there yet, she doesn't have the power, she doesn't have the support system to do that yet here. She's a guest and she has to really rely on those around her in order to navigate what's going on. But especially in the next chapter it starts to be really clear exactly where her story is, this book, and the frustrations that are to come. And then as we get into like a Dance with Dragons, how they're amplified, because she's already played this game, she's already won this game in some ways and lost this game in some ways, and now she has to play it all over again. You kind of see how it becomes more, more boring, right? Like more of a pretentious, like, layer she has to lay on and like here she's dealing with it very, very earnestly, right? It's a big challenge.

But in dance, it's a second nature yeah oh that's a good point that really shows that growth and trajectory for her well all the gates open to Daenerys as she's riding into the city on her silver children are dressed in golden sandals and bright paint and they also scatter flowers in her path and all of the color that was missing in face toluro is to be seen here and now you know with all this fanfare as she enters and everything you know speaking speaking of messianic it reminds me of jesus arriving into jesus jesus jelilililililil into jerusalem to celebrate Passover and as he does so he's like riding on a donkey. There's like a whole other like Lore thing about how he gets that donkey that's special or whatever and the crowd lays palms and their cloaks on the ground

before him and Feels a little like this. I thought you're gonna break into Fresh Prince for a moment. I was like what? No, I didn't actually think you'd do that. I don't think I can rap. I'm like incapable. I do think that's true. Uh, this also makes me think of Tywin, you know, he came on a horse instead of a donkey, but he's so gracious. Just like, no, I'm just kidding. I can't even joke about things like that. What the fuck? What are we talking about? I was like, is there a moment that I missed where Tywin gets stuff all thrown,

all cool and stuff in front of him? No, just on the horse and the horse shits. Oh yes. I love all of the beautiful description of Karth that we get. Specifically there's this great little passage where we hear about what it looks like. crowded about her fantastical as a fever dream. In shades of rose, violet, and umber, she passed under a bronze arch, fashioned in the likeness of two snakes mating, their scales delicate flakes of jade, obsidian, and lapis lazuli. Slim towers stood taller than any Dani had ever seen, and elaborate fountains filled every square wrought in the shape of griffins and dragons and manticores.

I just kind of want to know about the zoologist artist who watched Snakes Mate to like recreate this. I don't think I know what snakes mating looks like and like I have the technology to find out. I guess I could do it soon. I don't know whatever. I'm like very into I make everyone watch this video of Leopard Slugs mating and you should all do that too. I guess I've seen them eat stuff and I've seen them like lose their skin. Yeah. Yeah. But I've never watched them. Fuck. I don't really know where. I've seen them birth eggs. It's crazy. I don't know where the, I don't know how it works. I literally have no idea how snake mating works.

So human. Um, I, as you were saying, like, I love, you know, the way that Karth is described. It just sounds so beautiful. And it makes me think that it could be inspired by the city of Babylon as well in terms of how it's like, the greatest place on earth. It's like a wonder. Yeah, there are a lot of places that could serve as inspirations and I do think that, I don't know, like it's Phoenician season, right? Wes Anderson has a new movie, The Phoenician Scheme coming out, so Carthage. Do you know about Carthage?

Yeah, I do think that's part of it too. Yeah, in Tunisia, in Tunis, it's an ancient city and civilization in North Africa and founded by Phoenicians, became an empire at one point to rival Rome in influence in the first millennium. And then it was like almost destroyed by the Roman Republic in a three-year siege in 146 BC. And it was redeveloped a century later as the Roman Carthage. Then it was sacked and destroyed later on and it was occupied on and off, and its horses were then all destroyed, and it was used like an episcopal sea and ripped apart and like sold through parts in some aspects. But like it rose, it was very great, it was such an influence on culture, and then it died.

And it makes me wonder if Dani's going to come back for it to do that dying. I do, I see it that way. Like, I think that the fact that Carth does sound like Carthage, I felt is another clue that she comes back because there is that whole part, right? As you're talking about, like, during like the Third Punic War and like the Romans destroying it and like the salting of the land and stuff, which the slavers do to their own stuff, but like, will she implement, I don't know, that lesson or something on Karth? And I don't know, the whole- the whole destruction. That's why I also think I think she's gonna come back. Yeah, I feel like she has like a whole tour on the way home, but like that's the next problem, right? Is like where's the time for that? We need two more books. We need three more books.

It's possible that she does it for the most part during book six. Well, especially when you split her and Tyrion, right? Because Tyrion can give the accounts of some of the ones in passing. Also, like I feel like Tyrion might be involved more with Volantis and like, we'll hear about it in passing. Maybe I feel like alternating what POV you're seeing Danny do a tour west is maybe... Yeah, I just see like you have such a play with POVs. You have Barristan maybe. You have Tyrion. You have Dani. So you can kind of...

You can cover a lot of ground, because George loves doing that fast-forward a bit thing, like in the days past they had trampled through the forests of Kahakor, blah blah blah, you know like you can you can bullshit. Go George, get bullshitting. I feel like he does it less than he used to so he might need to go back to doing that more, but yeah I mean like that's because if she's going to probably go to Vase Dothrak again I assume towards the beginning of book six, there's a lot of time between that and eventually reuniting with Tyrion, which I assume might happen probably in Meereen. I don't know. She could go. Yeah. There's a lot of places to go until that point. So I just strongly believe. You know, first third, end of the first third

maybe of the first act. Yeah, Carthage and also again, the Sodom and Gomorrah stuff. I like strongly believe. I believe. The Carthene are lining the streets for her entrance, and she sees them. They are tall, pale, draped in linen, samite, and tiger furs. The women are bearing one breast, one tit out, as we said, as is custom. Men wear beaded silk skirts. Dani is feeling shabby and barbaric wearing her lion skin robe. Drogon perched on her shoulder. I'm not really sure what it is about the distinction between the tiger and the lion, that she feels so much less glamorous.

I mean, they're both dead big cat pelts. I'm not really sure the difference. That's it. Yeah, I think it's more that she's wearing her painted vest and outfit and she has a lion over her like as a headwear piece kind of draped over her that covers her from the sun with like the skin the pelt like I think maybe like it's the total effect like they're draped glamorously with it okay I get it yeah I see that that's she's draped more tactically for the the desert, you know as a traveler

Yeah, and maybe it's like a little matted now who knows Yeah The Dothraki call the Carthene milkmen and she recalls Drogo used to dream of sacking cities just like this Well, someone can make that dream come true watching her own men She wonders if they see Carthus plunder and imagines how savage their little group must appear in turn. They move through a grand plaza flanked by statues of ancient heroes atop white and green columns. At a bazaar beneath a lattice-worked ceiling, a thousand-colored birds sing among blooming trees and flowers. Wow. Yeah, I actually love the line here. Trees and flowers bloomed on the terraced walls above the stalls, while below it seemed as if everything that gods had put into the world was for sale.

Oh, weird. It's almost like Vegas. Yeah. I've never been. Carp is like ornate Vegas. I haven't either. But my roommate has. My roommate has. I've heard I've heard a lot about it. Yeah. There's a lot about it. Yeah. There's a lot going on here, right? There's always all this bit about like heroes and gods literally surrounding her plot, right?

In the beginning in Illyrio's palace and in Drogo's mance, for example, there are relics all over of her heritage, of other gods, of societies and places that Drogo had sacked or grabbed things from. And then you move on through that to Vaes Dothrak itself, right, and all of the gods that have been stolen and crash-landed there. And then here we are in Clash. We just had Stannis burning the gods, right, or coming. I don't know how this book works. I don't understand reading in a linear order. Uh, so you had burning the gods and then here she feels as if everything the gods had put into the world was for sale. So it's great to watch like the gods have their like existence and also their absence in her plot and surround her. Maybe perhaps another god being born. She's haunted

by the heroes and the gods both dead and alive through this. I really like the contrast in this line, too, that you called out of, like, there's something beautiful and natural and almost Edenic when you think about, oh, wow, trees, flowers, birds, right? Everything should just be there. Buy it now! Buy it now! Yeah, and then it turns out it's all just... it cheapens it, somehow, when it's all for sale. And, yeah, I like what you said. You could have it if you're a trophy to be collected too. Right. And it makes the heroes and the gods almost like trophies too. And as you said,

they crash landed here. Stannis is crashing out. They want to own a piece of God, you know, like everybody in this society here in Karth wants to own God. That's what they're doing to Daenerys as she goes Yeah, they're all trying to buy this new gun. Yeah, and and you see it here right with like Zaro's zone doxos Approaching on his camel Calling her almost beautiful of women offering her anything that she desires and her horse shies away, which is kind of fun Piat pre joins them declaring that all of Karth is hers. She doesn't need any trinkets. And that he calls her like, oh, the most beautiful of women. Right? And

we know why he's doing it, because the power and all the silver and all of this idea, like, and the dragons surrounding her, it's kind of like, as we said, that description of Cleopatra. Right? None of it, like, she's probably pretty, but like, everyone chills, she's 15, like, let's like not go out almost beautiful of women. Bro, she's 15. Yeah, it's like very easy to see through the flattery and almost makes you think, ah, the ulterior motives have ulterior motives, because if that flattery is supposed to distract, then what is it distracting from and what's that distracting from, You know, like they're like layers of gross as we learn. Especially contrasted with the fact that she's like, I don't feel very pretty right now.

I feel fucking dirty. I came from the desert. Also my life is unraveling. Yeah. And I'm in a lion pelt. What is happening? I am sweltering, there is no food or water out there. Life's terrible. I was starving, I just fucking stillbirth horribly. I've been living with ghosts. Yeah. For weeks. So, Zaro and Piat Pree begin to argue

over who Daenerys should favor. Zaro with his silks and gems and sunlight, or Piat Pree with his wisdom in the House of the Undying, where the Thirteen will crown her with Black Jade and Fire Opals. There's a lot going on in there that makes me think lots of that green versus black energy going on. The Black Jade and the Fire Opals sounding like Aegon's crown almost and also like bending to certain people here certain parts of their schism that like if you go with Zaro he will give you silks and gems and sunlight or Piat Pree

will give you wisdom and magic and the two ways that she could take it she can have power she could have magic she could wield power and magic and secrets and darkness and desire and like illusion and want and reality. She can bend all of these things if she goes with Piat Pree, right? She could truly have power and give up these otherworldly things or she could never want, right? I think of all the Targaryens that have gone east and shown up right and how they've been portrayed, whether in like House of the Dragon or in Fire and Blood for some of these Targaryens that have gone east or even west with Reyna, right? And how they arrive to others who are going to use them for status and power with their dragons. And it's so textbook here for Dani, right? Like she has,

she could be happy. She could go Saratargarian and have wealth and live in Essos free and take lovers as she wants. She could also then turn into someone who dwells on magic and memory and dwells on history and gets herself lost in the scrolls not unlike Rhaegar, not unlike Aegon the fifth right and burn her entire life down if she wants eventually. She could do either of these things. She has like several ways her path could go and here they are asking her to choose and that's what Clash is about and I love that. Almost choose. Almost choose. But Dany is sick of their bickering right she doesn't want to listen to any of this. She decides that she wants one thing. One palace. She wants the Red Keep.

She's wary of Piat Pree, reminded kind of of her time with Mirri Maz Duur, who was a little tricksy and a little magical, and thinks that if they wish to give her gifts, let it be ships and swords to reclaim King's Landing. Piafri smiles, promises it shall be so, and slips away, but quietly, Zaro gives her a warning with a carthene saying that will come up a few times in this book. A warlock's house is built of bones and lies. It's pretty interesting. What does it mean?

I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I think it's like pretty straightforward. I feel like I do know. I don What does it mean? I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I think it's like pretty straightforward. I feel like I do know. I don't know why I said I didn't know. That was a lie. Um, honestly, when you were talking about like, you know, the bickering between Zaro and Piat, Pri, it makes me think of like, there's kind of a shift going on in Karth. Like there's so many different people vying for power in different ways. I feel Hot Take would have been interested in a Carth Spinoff series or side story where we just talk about like the weird political stuff in there I think they were gonna go there if they ever continued the show after the first four episodes

It could have been I don't know I could have or like you know leading up until It could have been, I don't know, I could have, or like, you know, leading up until this moment before everything like, I don't know, before Daenerys like burns it down, it could be, it could be kind of fun, you know, like it's a city state, you know, and all the other free cities. Oh wait, we have a free city spinoff series. Hold up. Nevermind.

Um, maybe we make a series. Oh, it's a me and it's a musical. Another, and it's a musical. Another, there must be a third. A third musical, what do we have, Robert's Rebellion? We had another one. We said it recently, I can't think. Hopefully someone reminds us. Someone please remind us.

I've mined. Or not, maybe. Please help. Danny asks, yeah, speaking of please help, Danny asks, why do the men whisper about the warlocks? Why are they so revered across the West? And Zaro explains. Once they were mighty, but now they are as ludicrous as those feeble old soldiers who boast of their prowess, long after strength and skill have left them. They read their crumbling scrolls, drink shade of the evening until their lips turn blue,

and hint of dread powers, but they are hollow husks compared to those who went before. Pyatpre's gifts will turn to dust. In your hands, I warn you." He gave his camel a lick of his whip and sped away. The crow calls the raven black, muttered Ser Jorah, in the common tongue of Westeros. He thinks he's so clever talking this language that he thinks no one else understands. It's called the common tongue for a fucking reason, bro. I love that Zaro says ludicrous also. Like, I just feel like if someone is like, this is ludicrous, you're dead, you just lost, all right?

This person's coming for you if they're calling you ludicrous, that's it. It's interesting because they almost have two religions, right? Piat Pree believes in the magic, he believes in the 13, he believes in the drugs that get them there. And Zaro believes in money. He believes in physical things that you can actually touch, that you can actually feel, and you start to get that divide, right, of the two things that you can actually have in life, that battle of choice. You can have niceties and gems and baubles, fancy things,

trappings of power, or you could have the magical knowledge and real power beyond anyone's belief, but both will kill you, both will drain you, and Karth begins to emerge as that political dress rehearsal as we mentioned, and Dany starts to learn that these trappings are necessary, but she has to let them not consume her. She has to wear their clothes, take their gifts, right? Smile graciously. But God, the power calls to her, right?

It has truth, it has answers. Why wouldn't she, who birthed dragons, be able to have both things? Both power, both the niceties. Why can't she have both? And wouldn't all that knowledge and power help her break free of the trappings? I like the conflict this begins to present to her. Yeah. The way that you presented it makes me think of how Sansa had to learn, I mean, the same kinds of things, right? The niceties, etc. in King's Landing. But Daenerys hasn't had anyone to train her in all of this.

She's had to do it kind of like by watching Viserys do all this and completely fucking fail, right? They're treating her now the way that people used to treat the series, maybe even like more lavishly, even more as like psycho fans, because she has dragons and he fucking didn't. And she back then she could see like, I don't know about all this. I do think it's funny Jorah being like, oh, the crow's calling the ravens black. It makes me think of his dad, right? Amongst the crows, Jorah being like, oh, the crow's calling the ravens black. It makes me think of his dad, right? Amongst the crows, J.R. Mormont, and also maybe George later on,

gardening in those kettle blacks, but also funny, because Jorah is not to be trusted. Yes, he's not to be trusted. Speaking of Trixie, Trixie boards. Good analysis, Eliana. I agree. Interesting. Yeah, this is like, you finally get a way to start looking at how maybe Viserys had it and how it could drive you mad.

Yeah. Like, I mean, if everyone's telling you, oh my God, you're the best. Don't you want this? Like, I mean, that happened to Robert too, even. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He's like, what's fucking real? I don't know what's real anymore. And it's nice to like, hear. Exactly. He's like, what's fucking real? I don't know what's real anymore.

And it's nice to like hear nice things. I love hearing nice things from people, but like, there's a point where it's not. And that's why, you know, when people say nice things to me, I make sure to tell myself terrible things about myself so that I will always be balanced. The balance of the force. Holy shit. You ruined everything, you stupid bitch. You stupid bitch. Jorah, her right hand man, rides in his nightly garb and warns her to avoid those men. Pause. She argues they'll help her to her crown, but he says they pretend to have power and

that he doesn't even like the smell of this place. Shut the fuck up, Jorah. Dani says that maybe he's smelling the camels for the Carthagin actually seemed sweet, but Jorah says sweet smells sometimes cover foul ones. Actually, no, not really. They just make them weird, stinky. They do. They actually do. Common misconception. So stop doing that. She thinks that Jorah will always guard her and she feels safe with him, Common misconception. So stop doing that.

She thinks that Jorah will always guard her and she feels safe with him, but she's kind of sad too. She's like, Oh, I wish I could love him better than I do. Don't worry about that girl. You have your whole life. How do you don't let them guilt you into feeling that way. And every year you always fall into the trap. Then you're like, wow, that was a mistake.

Yeah, he can't make you feel things you know. Everyone's responsible for their emotions in the end of the day. We all have to wake up and be responsible and accountable for our emotions. In the city, Zaro lets her crash in his hospitality and his palace is larger than a market town and much larger than Illyrio's mants. She's given an entire wing, her own gardens, a marble bathing pool, a scrying tower, a warlocks maze, slaves to tend to her needs. She thanks Zaro for his generosity and says no gift is too great for the Mother of Dragons and that tomorrow he'll be throwing her a feast of peacock and larks tongue.

Serenaded by music and says, the thirteen, I don't even know what accent I did earlier, I really have no clue, we're just rolling with it. We're just, we're just living. The thirteen will come to do you homage and all the great of Carth, all the great of Carth will come to see my dragons, Dany thought. Yet she thanked Zaro for his kindness before she sent him on his way. Piat Pree took his leave as well, vowing to petition the Undying Ones for an audience. An honor rare as summer snows. Hmm. And then Piat Pree also leaves her a gift of ointment that would let her see the spirits of the air. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, also, I don't know,

what is she gonna do with a scrying tower in a warlock's maze? Is this something you just like give guests? Like, you know, oh yeah, hey, welcome. I gave you also all this like weird shit. I gave you a palantir, normal. Yeah, I don't know. Also, Piat Pry does this weird thing

where he like kisses Daenerys' feet. So you know, George out here really like foot content Daenerys could have maybe financed her campaign with that. Who knows? But- Only feet. Only feet. It-

Who are we? Hot D memes? Oh my gosh. Oh, that's right. Yeah. True. See, that's right. Yeah, true. See, foot fetish is canon.

You guys don't read the books. It is, actually. That reminds me though of like, speaking of Jesus, which is probably going to be the entire denarius coverage. Speaking of Jesus. There's a lot of stuff in the Bible when it comes to feet, right? You have like Jesus washing people's feet and that's supposed to be actually a very humbling act, right? So the fact that Priyad pisses her unwashed

feet is very much an act of like great respect because part of why it was so jarring for people to see someone who's like supposed to be the Messiah washing people's feet is it's supposed to be the dirtiest part of the body you know people are out there back then and like their sandals and stuff and like this is nasty and they're like whoa can't believe he's doing that wow so this was very this is very humbling of him and not not in the sexy way. Right absolutely like really throwing himself at her feet quite literally. Yeah actually good point. The ointment look we're gonna talk a

lot about acid this book. Beat um and because I know a lot about it because of one of my friends. Same. And interestingly enough in the ointment that would let her see the spirits of the air, it makes me wonder if it's like similar to the acorn paste, the weirwood tree vein paste, but from the blue leaf trees maybe. Because we know there are different concentrations, right? Shade of the Evening is made with those trees that we'll see at the House of the Undying, the black trees with blue leaves, and it's more of like a direct, you know, infused drink. It's like a fermented drink. So perhaps it's stronger, and this is like a lighter version of it.

But basically, what I'm suggesting is that this ointment is a micro dose of the trees, perhaps. And I'm curious if she ever comes to use it in the future. Same. Maybe we will see her using it in an attempt to like see her family, right? Just cry and see her family or something, or feel a connection with her family.

Yeah, and I wonder how it works. Avatar mode. Do you like wipe it on your eyes? Because like ointment I think of as externally applied. It makes me think a little bit of like the... I mean you could do hallucinogenics through a tincture that's dropped into your eye. Yeah. I've heard. You can do it in your mouth. It's probably better you don't wanna fucking go blind. It's insane. But you know, like the eyes, oh my God,

you cover your eyes. I felt that too in my soul. But also it makes me think of his dark materials, right? Where we learn about that with the rose oil and scholars putting it in the eye. So something going on there, something going on there. You know, it's like max level, like trying to get to the alternate universe

or like the shadow dimension or like what's the Star Wars one called? Nerds correct me. The easiest way, I should just call it something wrong because the easiest way to get an answer, especially about Star Wars is to call it the wrong place. But the fucking whatever the shadow realm in Star Wars is. Where that one scene in Ahsoka takes place, but I haven't actually seen it.

I've just watched a scene on YouTube. I forgot. I'm watching Clone Wars though right now. I'm having a blast. I love Clone Wars. Oh, I need to catch up with you so we can discuss it. Yeah, catch up. This will drive me.

This will finally make me watch it. I mean, I wanted to before, but then I looked at how many episodes and then the fact that I had to think about the order and I was like, it's a lot of work. It's really easy though, I didn't realize it but I was on season 3 in no time and blink and you'll get through the 5 episodes out of nowhere. If I could just set it easily to play it in the order that it's supposed to be in, that'd be great. But anyways, um Yeah, also like I don't know. It's kind of funny again that it's an ointment

I'm like imagine it like I don't know Vicks vapor rub or like tiger bomb you put it like, you know on your elbow You're like, oh my elbows sore and then all of a sudden you're seeing spirits of the air would be weird I mean Kind of sounds cool I mean, kind of sounds cool to me. So the third to leave that is there, by the way, is Quaithe, who then warns her and says, beware. And Quaithe says, of all, they shall come day and night

to see the wonder that has been born again into the world. And when they see, they shall lust, for dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power. When Quaith too is gone, Ser Jorah said, She speaks truly, my queen. Though I like her no more than the others. Who do you like? Himself.

Blonde girls. He doesn't even like himself. That's true, blonde girls, that's it. That's the answer. And uh, I don't know. I guess he liked... I don't even know if he liked Drogo, who knows? He knows better than to talk shit about Drogo in front of Daenerys.

Dani says that she doesn't understand Quaithe, but she thinks that Piat Piri and Zaro were easier. They showered her with promises and gifts, but Quaithe is cryptic. And also wasn't showing her face. Listen, she's just practicing social distancing. She thinks of Mirri Mazdor and thinks, remember treachery. And yeah, I mean, saying that they'll see the wonder that was born into the world and then they shall lost speaks a lot to, again, that tie between desire and power. And, you know, Dani, Dani may not

understand exactly what Quaithe is saying, because she's speaking in weird words. But she does understand the heart of it, even if she doesn't know, because we've seen her already being skeptical of people leeching onto power in this very chapter. A little. She's a little skeptical. She's like, are you really? But we've seen it with Illyrio, right? And like right now she's still kind of learning that. She's like, I don't know, maybe they're nice, but we'll see. Yeah, this book really does cement that for her because it opens up, right, with Jorah last chapter being like, well, but you know, he sold you. He's not really your friend. Yeah.

Because he would know because he sold people too. And she's like, no, I know what I'm doing. And like, come storm, she really starts to come into her own and kind of have that guidance. But it's interesting because something that I'm noticing as we get through here is like, we'll talk about it in a bit too, but she doesn't have someone on her side to tell her these things. Everybody has their own agenda and Jorah is kind of useless as a strong word, and I like using strong words as you all know, like fuck and useless,

but like he is a little useless in some aspects. He just says things that are like, yeah, sometimes they are guidance, but also they're not really real pieces of counsel necessarily, right? Like, uh, You'll find no love there. If you go west, someone will kill you. Well, yeah, no fucking shit. Thanks, Jorah It's all like kind of just structured to make her do nothing, right? He wants her to be a doll and Yeah do nothing, right? He wants her to be a doll. And yeah, and that's like what's difficult because you were you were driving at this like everyone wants something from her and

Jorah does too. And it's her vagina. But um, yeah, he wants to marry her. Yeah, he wants to let her to love him. He doesn't want her to become a queen because then she'd have power. And we can't be that. Well, it's interesting because then you have like Feast Asha's chapters, right, and you see a lot of this. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's a great point.

And Triss and, um, Carl, not as much, Triss a little bit of it. Yeah, and no one thinks to say that, right, to men, not as easily. Sometimes they do. But like, I don't know men really have it hard. Oh, that's so true. Catlin, no yes. You know, Catlin can't be like Rob, just like, just go fucking be like a child, right? Like, yeah, it's what's expected of them. But women they're like, I don't know, what if you just gave it all up and I don't know, put beef towel on your face or some

shit? Jesus. That's what we're talking about that's so true. Or pulled your titty out. Just whip your titty out. Uh tits out. Um yeah so Daenerys warns her blood riders to keep watch of this wing of the palace and keep the dragons well guarded that they have only seen the parts of Carth that Piat Pree wanted them to see. So she sends her car off and she's like, go actually see the real ass city. Bring some men with you and some good women as well to go into the places where men cannot go. And to scout, and Jorah, you go to the docks and check those ships out.

And she's like, hoping to hear some tidings from the Seven Kingdoms. And Jorah seems worried. He's like, I don't know, I think I should be here at Jorah's side guarding you. And she goes, Jogo can do that just as well. Jorah, you can translate amongst the sailors and learn the cruise. There's something interesting here that makes me think he's concerned about his lies coming to fruition. But he's scared and worried like in going to the port, being recognized in some aspects perhaps interesting yeah I kind of just got the vibe like he seems to be afraid because he's a lying scoundrel like he's like no I should be at your side well he's often

at her side making sure that what she hears are his words right yeah his version of everything as we were just saying. So like, him being away takes out his stake of power. He can't like, poison her mind. Yeah, it could be either of those folds really, but I definitely got some vibes here that Jorah was like, no, don't send me away. I don't want to go to the ports where I probably know all these people and they know that I'm lying and like, was spying for Elyria. Yeah, I like that.

That's a good point. I don't know I just think it's smart that Daenerys knows she's probably only been shown the good parts of the city and sends people to go scout. You know Catelyn gives Rob this advice of choosing the right person for each job and I think that it's kind of cool to see how Daenerys thinks through who she sends to these tasks. Yeah there's a reason for each person going. Yeah. And like for Jorah, that is the best job. Too bad it was Roose.

Yeah. Yeah, right? Too bad it's Roose. Too bad that was Roose for him, but yeah. You know, we all got bad ones out there right on our council. True. Uh, Jorah reluctantly agrees with his task and he departs and alone, Dany's handmaids ease her into a shaded marble pool where tiny golden fish nibble at her feet, did at her skin.

And her eyes are closed. See? Yeah, exactly. All over again. George Footfetish, Martin. Eyes closed, she floats, imagining if Aegon's Red Keep has pools like this or maybe lush gardens, Viserys had always said the Seven Kingdoms were the most beautiful place in the world. I love the description here of the luxury and weightlessness of how she feels for once,

right? She doesn't often get to feel this way. Embrace it while you got it, sister! Everyone needs a spa day! Mention of Aegon's Red Keep is interesting because it makes me think of Aegon's gardens at Dragonstone, which are hilariously garden into the story by George as of a storm of swords in Davos chapters and also talked about in Fire and Blood. We don't actually hear about this till then. It's in Dragonstone and I think there's something interesting about King's Landing not having that beautiful Aegon's Garden. He built it in Dragonstone right in their more familial home from moving to Westeros. There's something interesting

in like her going back to Westeros and not being able to take King's Landing right away, but also King's Landing being kind of garbage even though like this whole time she's like, oh my god the Red Keep, it's mine, and I'm going there and like I can't wait to see my beautiful city and I can't wait to see this beautiful nation that is mine, rightfully. And then maybe she goes there and she can't go there, right? She's relegated to Aegon's Gardens at Dragonstone and arguably Dragonstone has some of these beauties that she's thinking about as well as the familial bond, the tie to her blood, to her history, to who she is and to the dragons. And if somebody is sitting in her chair and she can't go home to it and she does go to Dragonstone before

a dance happens once more, it's kind of interesting, right? Like she does get the gardens, she gets some of the things she wanted, but also it doesn't really matter that it doesn't look as good, she kind of still wants that fucking chair, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's gonna probably spend a lot of time in that garden being like, god damn it, they're in my chair.

Yeah, get out of my fucking chair. And I love the description in Davos and Storm of, Aegon's garden had a pleasant piney smell to it and tall dark trees rose on every side. There were wild roses as well and towering thorny hedges and a boggy spot where cranberries grew. Aw, a boggy spot. Pleasant. Wow.

Ocean spray. And... Oh, think of all the times he spent canoodling there. Oh, I was thinking like... Rainy, some Visenya. No one's gonna get a UTI with all that. Think of all the times he got pegged there by Visenya. Aww. So beautiful. Amongst the roses. I don't know why, it makes me think of like Sleeping Beauty's Castle too, because of all the ways described with the wild roses and towering thorny hedges. The hedges, yeah. Honestly, hilarious that Viserys said that. He's never seen Carth. And yeah, it's probably like pretty cool.

The Westerosi gardens and this one. I think probably the best of the gardens is likely one that we haven't seen in the Reach and the Water Gardens in Dorne. Like honestly, though I think all of them are probably pretty podunk compared to Karth. I don't know, I kind of feel like it's like- Like how here in America, like there are so many states that have beauty in them that you might not know about unless you go find them too. So like, I don't feel like that's also very fair to say like only maybe in the reach there's beauty and like the water, like I feel like there's probably secret beauty all over in Westeros, you know, and like the good spots that we don't know about. I think so, but it's not like, you know, the, the very hedge, like extravagance,

opulence, right? Like the riches, like the cardinal gardens, and the riches. You're looking for opulence. Yeah. And I think that's what this is. Because I would say like the arbor is what I want to see. Right. I think it's just like the Westros is not nearly as rich as Essos and like, no, it makes me kind of- Well, the riches are spread out, you know? Yeah. I mean, it makes me think of like, there's this sort of narrative that goes throughout Western society of like, you know, wow, Western society, like so great, so rich,

always been the best and like brightest and especially like, you know, England, right? Wow, greatest empire. It's like, well, actually, if you look during that time of like the medieval ages and the dark ages for Europe, shit was popping in the Middle East, you know? They were like, we got algebra. No, actually though, like some of the beauty in like Turkey too, like incredible. We have soap. Yeah. So some people still haven't

discovered soap. Yo, real. Here. Oh my god. Sometimes I hear about how people don't wash between their like butt cheeks because they're like, it's gay. Uh uh. No, no, I don't have time to talk about that. No, no.

No, that's disgusting. I will puke on you. Oh my gosh. So other things that are unsettling. The thought of home unsettles Daenerys. She thinks of how Drogo would have crossed the sea to reclaim Westeros for her, but he's gone now and only her blood writers remain. They're fierce killers, she thinks, bred for conquest, not rule. They know how to sack cities,

but not govern them. Quotus here, like, wheels start spinning about this and how it, like, comes to bear fruit in Storm. Right, interesting to think about as we move forward. Put a pin in that for later, right? We'll come back to that, I'm sure. Dani had no wish to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children.

I want my people to smile when they see me ride by the way Viserys said they smiled for my father. But before she could do that, she must conquer. She thinks of something Jorah had said earlier, the usurper will kill you, sure, as sunrise. Robert had killed her brother Rhaegar, and one of his creatures had crossed the sea to poison her and Rhaego. I love that this passage is littered with some dramatic irony, some dramatic foreshadowing here,

maybe some ironic foreshadowing to come, who knows? Right, I love when George plays with things like this, it just tickles me. The usurper will kill you sure as sunrise, right? Implying sunrise is a sure thing. Well, guess what, bitch? The usurper is fucking dead. He's not going to kill her because he is dead and he tried and he lost.

And also the sun rising is not a sure thing. The long night looms ahead, right? So kind of a cute double play. George loves to do that. And, you know, he there's often these little things throughout, right? Characters wants and desires aren't always executed the way that they would like them to be. They might want one thing. I really like that call out. That's true. At some point, don't bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow there'll be sun in the winter, presumably.

Tiwao, tiwao, I love ya, tiwao, you're only a day away under your chair. When you were reading this quote aloud though, it's a beautiful idea, it's a beautiful dream that Daenerys has of what Westeros could be, but that last line of but before she could do that she must conquer feels very only death can pay for life. Yeah, yeah. That's all I had for that. I like that. I like that. I don't know. It's interesting. They said Robert was strong as a bull, fearless in battle, and his great lord's cold-eyed eddard stark with his frozen heart, the golden-rich Lannister is all very powerful. How could she hope to overthrow such men?

Drogo alive had made men tremble and was given gifts to avoid bringing his wrath down on them. But her cause, Saur, is meager. Five years from now, this will not be an issue for you, Daenerys. I promise. Like, literally, next year. Yeah, right? Don't worry, those dragons are gonna grow real quick thanks to George. Just, I mean, even like, just get 16, they're gonna take care of themselves. Yeah, yeah. You know that's what they say. When you're 15 somebody tells you they love. I'm not, it's not happening. You're gonna believe them. So I really love this limited misinformation that Dani has about Ned Stark and Tywin, right? It's further dramatic irony. Ned died for love. Ned died for ultimate secrets. His frozen heart wasn't frozen, he was guarded.

He died protecting his sister's son, his own children he died protecting, right? It reminds you of what he says to Arya when Arya throws rocks at Nymeria and says, it was right, wasn't it? The queen would have killed her. And he says it was right. And even the lie was not without honor. And that was what Ned's death was. That was what Ned's character is to Dany. A lie, right? What she knows about him is so limited. And Tywin, of course, is cruel, hateful, terrible. He gets murdered by his own son. And it turns out both of these men are actually really easy to kill at the end of the day. They're just men. Like I'm just saying, they're just men. They were very easy to kill. And it's not them that she needs to fear. Both of these conflicts get wiped

right off the board before she can even get there. By 16. These... Yeah, by 16. Yeah, like you said. These giant haunting shadows are the only thing she has that connect her to her family. This point of connection. Like, these are the context.

This is what she uses to contextualize Westeros and visualize it and hold her family and her history within her. Not in time when we're anchors to her own story. They were villains in a fairy tale that she repeats to herself that she has to fight with and she has to win back her family's stolen valor, honor, their stolen kingdom. These shadows are the way to drive her. She can hold onto this even if it's surviving through hatred, even if it's surviving through spite. She can take it back for the family she never got to know,

and kind of paint a new one in a way. I'm really interested to see that conflict between her and Jon rise later, maybe because of these limited stories that she's heard from folks around her, and not just her conflict with Jon over this, but conflict in Westeros with many people, right? She's heard from Viserys and Jorah and later Barristan bits about her history that she can use to anchor herself to it, but they're not true, right? I mean, they're not all true. They can be partial truths, but there's a wider picture and more truths. I'm sure there will be some sort of discussion between John

and Daenerys where he's like, okay, well, your father did kill some members of my family, believe it or not, which did cause a rift, a little bit of tension, maybe, you know, and maybe caused my dad, quote unquote, to go to war which ha ha ha ha your dad was also there both dads This unraveling of that story is so unfair because as we said Danny is literally amongst the gods constantly She's put as a trinket to be bought like a god to be bought like a rosary to pray upon in these chapters and as we unravel that story and as she gets to Westeros you begin to see like if she crosses West She has been politically led astray in dance. We see this honestly a lot more She doesn't have someone leading her intrigue department. She doesn't have Varys on her side

She doesn't have a spymaster or a mistress of whispers a lot of her world is like she is in the web She's fighting to get herself out of the spider's web. She doesn't have someone sharply leading offense on this, out there understanding and creating a network for her of spies and information for her to leverage of truths and falsehoods and truths and like all these things that you need to hear both of to decide what to do. She's not getting a full picture. Even Barristan when he finally joins is like he brings her information, but he doesn't have the most up-to-date information when he arrives.

Yeah, and it's hard to, right? Because as we see even like in some of those Winds chapters, it's hard to have up-to-date information when you don't have the internet. Maybe with a scrying tower, who fucking knows? Or glass candles. But like the information is inherently out to date. It makes it hard to plan and do strategy and prepare. But I really love I know notes just like want to call it I love what you said of like she has to hold on to these villains in her story because it's what grounds her and her family even if it's not true that kind of gap between the heart and truth and like how the way that the way that our feelings

and emotions can influence what we perceive as truth because that's that's the case too right like that's why Dorica's being like yeah we fucking hate Ned Stark and I'm like I don't girl, I think you would really like Ned Stark. If anything, he didn't have a frozen heart. He had that man was soft, but like in a good way, big softie. And he wanted to save you. Yeah. And John's gonna John's gonna like he's like Ned.

He goes down. Yeah. And that's the most important part about him. And that's so true, Busty. I know. So yeah, this is really interesting. I haven't really thought about the fact though, that she doesn't have any sort of master of whispers. I wonder if she's going to have like Tyrion, you know, start organizing that and putting it together or Marwyn. Actually, Marwyn would be a good person. Maybe that's where you were leading. No, I mean, that actually is smart now that you say it. I wasn't getting there, so I needed

you to complete me. I thought you were— I needed you to finish me. Are we a couple? Oh, finish. Finish. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Daenerys' people followed her as she chased the comet, and they'd follow her across

the poison water too, but it isn't enough. Even her dragons aren't enough. We have this line of, Viserys had believed that the realm would rise for its rightful king, but Viserys had been a fool, and fools believe in foolish things. Her doubts made her shiver. Suddenly the water felt cold to her and the little fish prickling at her skin annoying. Oh I love that. I love that.

Claw? Uh. It's not the fish's fault. She calls for Eerie. Yeah exactly. They're just doing their job. Sad existence. They're just trying to eat. She calls for Eerie and Xiqui who wrap wrap her in a sand silk robe, and she thinks of the three that sought her in the City of Bones, and that the Bleeding Star led her here for a purpose. She just has to have the wisdom to avoid the traps and snares. If the gods mean for me to conquer, they'll provide.

They'll send me a sign, and if not, if not..." At Evenfall, while she feeds her dragons, Jor returns from the docks and not alone. He enters with a familiar face to our podcast, maybe if you're reading this in the correct order not familiar, Kehiro Moe, captain of the Cinnamon Wind, and he kneels to her bringing her a wonderful gift from his recent stop in Old Town. Robert Baratheon has motherfucking died. I love that. I'm pretty sure he like got garden in there and George is like, Oh my god, I have someone going to Old Town. Oh, fun. And amazing. You know, right? He's like, that's his route. That's just like his route. I love the contrast between Kohuramo and the Ostapori

because Kohuramo isn't an idiot, right? He's worldly and well-traveled, knows probably a lot of languages because of his job, and he knows a non-zero amount about current events because of that. So I assume that maybe he knows about what's happened to Daenerys and Viserys, right? Or like has heard some of that gossip or can at least like assume it, knowing that you know they were probably in the Free Cities for a while. So he speaks to her not in the common tongue but in

Valyrian, and I love that that's how he greets her and it's kind of validating I think and especially like you know again in contrast to the Ossipoi who are like I don't know this dumb bitch can't speak more than one language. And like, excuse me, do you know who you're talking to? You're talking to Cleopatra. She knows all the fucking languages. Canonical of Cleopatra.

His gift though, I love that his gift, it's like quates. It's actually useful to denaries. It's not flattery. It's not jewels or silk, like what Priat, Pyatri and Zaro offered, but it's true. It's actually very comforting for her, unlike you know, fine silks. It's information and it's real. It's a reason to go forward. Yeah. Right, it's a reason to keep going. Yeah, true. Like we said, like it could be hatred that she's thriving on, it could be living out of spite, but she'll still live. She's still rising from the ashes on it.

Yes. Yeah, you get that. She thinks of Robert. He sent me poisoned wine, yet I live and he is gone. The language reminds, that's so what happens to me though. Like I don't live everyone. I know. It's insane.

So insane. I'm like the cockroach at the very end. Like I'll be there, bitch. I feel you, Dani. It reminds me of Doran in Feast though, right? The language, the way it's written. I was a man grown when they were playing in these pools, yet here I sit and they are gone. And it has such a hollow second kind of contrast to this. Like it's very

different emotionally. Tonally, this is more shock. Kind of like coping with like, wow, the horror of that is maybe somewhat over. And also like something you never thought would happen. And also like, wow, I fucking lived bitch. I lived bitch meme. Where Doran's is I lived bitch. Like it's terrible. I'm still fucking alive through all this horror and hell. You have this context of like one is out of hatred. One is instead that of love. And it's crazy because as we have Kehiru Mo here,

we kind of come back to Ke Kiru and feast with Sam. And I feel like Sam 4 is such an important chapter because it has an intersection of two very critical things. You have Aemon and the aftermath of Aemon's death and what he told Sam of prophecy, what he told Sam of believing that Daenerys was the princess that was promised. And all of this then happens aboard a ship where Sam later loses his virginity and is taught the lesson by Xondo that to love is to be human, and that lack of love is to live a lesser life.

You are not living a life if you are not loving. There is that great beautiful passage of, she knows she cannot keep you, she wants you for a little while is all she lost her father and her husband her mother and her sisters her home her world all she has is you and the babe so you go to her or swim that connection with the cinnamon wind really comes in because in Fistance that's what Dani is really grappling with right she is making that terrible difficult decision of having to send away Dario, who, you know, she knows she can't keep him. She just wants him for a little while, that's all. And having to marry Hisdar, and

Dani realizes she's not living, she's not live-laugh-loving, right, around this time in the story. So it just feels important that Kehiru Mo's Cinnamon Wind carries on more than just Sam and Eamon. Two, it carries on the word of Dany. Dany's word gets carried. It's one of the first ships that really leaves with word of the Dragon Queen having seen her for themselves, having witnessed, right, the mysteries of Dany. Absolutely. And I love that you tied it to also like Doran's plight, because at the same time, he's just been waiting for it, you know, for so long. I guess as long as Daenerys has been waiting for it, if you think about it, it's shaped both of their lives. And it's interesting that

Jorah can't understand it, because like the quote that you pulled out from Doran is like, yet here I sit, which sounds a lot like, you know, the idea of like, and yet here I stand, yet here we stand. Yes, it's that's like his house words. And I'm like, Jorah, come on, come the fuck on. But he's also resilient in the cockroach way. That's true in a way. But I also really like, you know, how you've tied it into like this very ephemeral part of like Daenerys. There's so few things that she can hold on to, like you have the quote that you pulled out about Gilly, like that's so true also about Daenerys. She's lost. She's lost so much. Like she doesn't feel safe holding onto anything, especially now that she like fears betrayal. She's like,

I don't know. Remember treachery. Who can she hold and for how long? And can she ever hold truly? Yeah, I think there's something in the next chapters where they talk about magic and like the smoke holding it in the hand, right? You can hold smoke in your hand and disappearing and that's really, that's a lot of what she has. Yeah. Wisps of memory that she's trying desperately to cling to before they all dissipate. Memory, all alone.

Okay, so. All alone in car. Dani asks the manner of Robert's death and learns that it was a monstrous boar in the Kingswood, but some say his queen betrayed him, or maybe his brother, or Lord Stark, but everyone agrees, most of all, that Robert was fucking dead. Yes. However, the boy now sits the throne. And, oh, they do not know how bad the boy is, but we do.

King Joffrey, with the Lannisters ruling behind him. Robert's brothers had fled King's Landing, but they mean to seize the crown. And Ned Stark was seized for treason and has fallen, to which Jorah does not believe. He snorts and says, not bloody likely. The long summer will come again before that one would besmirch his precious honor." I think this is- I mean, dead, but... Yeah, this is fascinating because Jorah is giving away, like, it's fascinating that he

like explicitly questions Ned Stark ever being a traitor. And I'm like, Jorah is giving away like, it's fascinating that he like explicitly questions Ned Stark ever being a traitor and I'm like, Jorah, are you giving away that maybe you're the baddie? And like, it's also a hint, like Daenerys, if Jorah doesn't think that Ned Stark could ever be a traitor, what's not adding up right now about your father and what happened to the rule of the Targaryens? It's an interesting kind of like building of that hint. And you can see like Daenerys doesn't truly get it. And that makes sense, right? This is the story she's been told since she was a child from the only person she thought who could trust

who shaped her world for her Viserys. And she responds that like a traitor can't have honor just like the Lannisters and their betrayals. And I'm just like, all right, point for that one though. I mean, true. Yeah. They were pretty traitors in a lot of ways, and she's pleased though to hear that the Zerper's dogs are turning on each other. It makes me think of like, Cersei and Tyrion like dancing in joy when they're like, are you fucking kidding me?

The Baratheons are fighting each other? And she knows that this feels accurate to her because she saw the men do it after Drogo's death and the way that the Colossar split. And so I find this to be a really interesting insight on her part that she knows that this is a fact. So, or like that it tends to happen in a power vacuum. So I kind of wonder if she'll use this for any of like her strategies in the future when she's conquering.

Maybe she already has, but I think she does it away with Marine, right? Like in a way, she kind of, she, that, and like, she uses opportunity. Like Dani's very much about using opportunities that show themselves in war and not using necessarily classic techniques, you know, but using loopholes and leveraging opportunity is a little bit of gorilla warfare in some aspects too, right? She's kind of a trickster queen in that way, which is kind of cool because you don't always see that attributed to like, the goddesses. Sometimes you do, but it's usually a- Yeah!

I don't know, silly little birds or- Silly little lads. Yeah. Yeah, and there's also something really interesting about that with like, she is kind of treacherous, right? Like what she does with the second sons, like, I mean, they deserve it. Right? Like the battle, like her enemies deserve it. So like, it's kind of like, okay, but also it's a treacherous thing to do. It is. Yeah. But as you said, like she's opportunistic, but in a way that you're like, okay, that was really clever.

That was really smart because she's not at the stage yet. She doesn't have enough resources to do the things that Veres and Illyrio do, right? Veres and Illyrio, they can be opportunistic. And so you can kind of see Daenerys coming forward as a strategist and all this, like, but Veres and Illyrio have been, they make their plans and create, to an extent also,

opportunities for themselves. She doesn't, she doesn't have the time to do that. Maybe with like a five-year gap she would have, who knows. Right. It goes kind of on the edge of like Rob with Whispering Wood, right? Like that little bit of just like, little bit of trickster going on in order to win that like, for Rob, it's not necessarily illegal in the rules of war for what he did. Like, maybe they should have thought about it better, you know? It's just funny because there's like a certain honor about war even though it's like you're gonna kill each other.

Like who the fuck cares? If your aim is that you're gonna murder each other, like, who cares? I guess actually it does matter, but you know what I mean? It does matter, hence the matter you know what I mean it's the red wedding but yeah yeah yeah I mean I just think all war is bad but yeah yeah it's all bad true um war is bad that's a quote you can put as a headline on this episode are you sure uh Dani then shares with Kehiru Moe that her brother Viserys, the true king, was killed by her husband, Keldrogo. She wonders to herself if Viserys would have been wiser had he

known that his vengeance was so near. That's an interesting thought. It is interesting. Kehiru Moe expresses sympathy for her and Westeros because they lost their rightful king. Rhaegal watches him with golden eyes during this. When Danny asks when his ship returns to Westeros, he says not for a year. First he's headed east around the Jade Sea. She's disappointed but thanks him for the rare gift and he insists he is the one that's been given a gift. He got to see dragons. Real. Yeah. We're talking about Jesus again. to see dragons, real? Yeah. We're gonna talk about Jesus again.

Didn't see that coming. So the way that Khoromo says this, the fact that he's like, the gift was seeing the dragons also feels like very religious, right? It feels like he got to see a miracle, reminds me of the thing of like, just say the word and my soul shall be healed,

or like how people would go see Jesus and they're like seeing him, they were like, I feel like I'm healed, or they would only just like, you know, touch his see Jesus and they're like seeing him they were like I feel like I'm healed or they would only just like you know touch his robe and they're like we fucking did it we're healed now so feels a little like that with Krumo and I'm sure that that's what a lot of people feel like when they see dragons they are as described a living miracle right because you have like the seven miracles, right, in the Gospel of John. You have the water and the wine, you have healing someone. You have healing at Bethesda.

Healing at Bethesda. Bethesda, Maryland, yeah. You have, oh my god, you have feeding the 5,000, walking on water, you know, there's that one. So that's her flying, basically. Healing the man born blind and then raising Lazarus. I think those are the seven. Well, a lot of people- And that's a sign of his divinity.

A lot of people are coming back from the dead. Everybody. Everybody. Everybody in the club coming back from the den. Yeah. Ugh. Dani tells Kehiro that when he visits, when she sits the Iron Throne, he will be rewarded. He promises he will visit her and then he departs and Jorah's like, Khaleesi, Khaleesi. You can't just tell people your plan, right, to take back the throne. Don't speak so freely." And Dany's like, no, I want word to spread. Who cares? The usurper is dead. What does it matter? And Jorah's like, yeah, but now Robert's son rules, so like nothing has changed.

Like, the world just keeps moving. And Dany's like, no, it changes everything. And she rises and her dragons are shrieking because ajorodon pissed him off and she says, the seven kingdoms were once like Drogo's khalasar, united by strength and now they scatter just as the usurpers' dogs have. I mean kind of and she's she is right in many ways like she realizes that you know the fact that they keep calling Joffrey like and the boy wolves right she knows that, you know, the fact that they keep calling Joffrey like, and the boy rules, right? She knows that he's not strong enough to do it because that was a threat to her and her son when when they were worried that Drogo was gonna die, which he did, but

so did her son anyway. But you know, she knew that that was like always going to be a danger for them. So she knows that his grasp on power is tenuous and also like, I love that she's like, no, everyone's got to know it. Because at the same time, she's right. Because turns out a lot of people don't fucking know by book five, they're like, I don't know, are there really dragons? Is she actually coming over here? And they're like, I don't know if I believe that. So you know what, probably for the better that people know. People are still asking. Yeah, people are still asking and therefore no one's like flocking to her. No one believes.

Mm-hmm. I don't know, they're coming. They're coming right now. Like, they're coming finally. But I will say it's funny because she's like, oh, she hates Robert, obviously, because he sucks, as we know, but also, and because all the threats against her life and everything. Whatever. There's almost like a regard, right?

That she says that the usurpers dogs betrayed him and that like they're all ripping each other apart now that he's gone. And she almost still respects like the order of the throne, right? Like you don't see her saying anything about the boy king. You don't see her saying like, oh, I could rip him up. He's just 10, which he's not, he's 14. But she could rip him up though.

Yeah, absolutely. She could eat him like with one tooth. But it's just interesting because like, again, you have those pensions of like these serpers dogs are bad and he's bad too. But like, oh, but also they betrayed him. Wow. Terrible. You shouldn't betray your king. So it's like those two great ideas of like, you know, ruling for me but not for thee in

some ways and I'm curious about how that conflict changes. Like you're still depending on the throne, you know, to be there. But I wonder if she'll also like remember that Robert was betrayed, right? Or so she thinks and then be like, could happen to me. Could happen to any royals, yeah. All royals get betrayed. Rulers. I mean, that's true. But like goes back to her and godhood, right? And how lonely she is and isolated and how the isolation can grow. The paranoia can probably grow. Yeah. Jesus also betrayed.

Yeah, absolutely. Betrayal. Betrayal. For real. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to go into the end in a moment and yeah, we do know she's 15 now. I don't know if like, is this her birthday? Like they just tell us, you know, at some point she turned 15, whatever. Neitha, we kind of get it. I'm going to say this was her birthday party. You know? Sure. Sure. She got a lot of gifts. That's true. Jorah reminds her the kingdoms won't fall into her lap. She needs more gifts.

She needs ships, gold, armies and allies. And she's like, I fucking know. Stop mansplaining it, Jorah, she knows. Oh, is that what he's doing? Shit, that's the word. You're right. I didn't like want to call it that, but I guess you're right. It is. She's so nice about it, too. I know. She took his hands in hearse and looked up into his dark suspicious eyes. Sometimes he

thinks of me as a child he must protect, and sometimes as a woman he would like to bed, but does he ever truly see me as his queen? I am not the frightened girl you met in Pentos. I have counted only fifteen name days, true, but I am as old as the crones in the Dashkhalin and as young as my dragons, Jorah. I have borne a child, burned a cowl, and crossed the Red Waste and the Dothraki Sea. Mine is the blood of the dragon." As was your brother's. I am not Viserys. No, there is more of Rhaegar in you, I think.

But even Rhaegar could be slain. Robert proved that on the Trident with no more than a warhammer. Even dragons can die. Dragons die. She stood on her toes to kiss him lightly on an unshaven cheek. But so do dragon slayers. Why did we do that? Why did we do that? Like, while he's trying to manipulate you into needing him and isolating you? I don't know. Because she's being manipulated and needing him and being isolated. That's why she did it.

Yeah, because she feels bad because she, the Queen, doesn't love the 40-whatever-year-old man that's obsessed with her. Dude, being 15 was so hard. Dude, I know, I mean it was just nine years ago for me but I'm sorry I couldn't resist. Cause when you're 15, somebody tells you they love you. It is really sad right because she's like absolutely kissing him because she feels bad because she feels like He's devote like it's a weird white knight thing literally like it's like the Kingsguard kind of effective like he's devoted himself to her In full she feels and she feels like she's taking something from him because she can't give him the one thing he wants from her

And it's not fair Obviously for a 15 year old to have to grapple with that emotion. It's a little too complex for her. There are a lot of complex things going on in her plot, like it's too complex for her to have to handle. She shouldn't have to handle that, especially grappling with like the fact that he is her quote unquote advisor at this time. And also that like he showed up the day like she had to marry Cal Drogo and became a replacement like he became the emotional pillow and the emotional like he's the one that she talked to. Cal Drogo didn't when he

didn't want to have long conversations with her about things she would say Jorah come sit with me I need to talk to you and like try to understand the world through him. So he taught her all these things and was her only source of information these past two years that she could trust and that's not right. It's really sad. It's sad that her only friend basically is this 40 year old man and he's not even a very true friend to her in that way. No he's not.

He's not. She does have, of course, her blood riders and of course her ladies, but it's not quite the same, the level that she speaks with them that she does with Jorah. And now only two of them. Yeah, that's hard.

Yeah. Do all gods feel so lonely? Yes. They do. Yes, the answer is yes. Well, we will return next week with Fen'niris 3. So don't feel lonely. Yeah, so don't feel lonely. We'll be back exactly. And we'll start to get deeper into Carth and some of the social politics that will be going on that Dani has to play with and navigate and traverse her way through and we hope that you will join us for that because we're also going to reveal our guest that's coming on soon, our friend that's coming over.

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All of it. You can be a free member there, you don't have to pay. You can just be a free member and chill, hang out. We have some community chats there that aren't really alive alive, but they could come alive. You just never know. And uh... Yeah, check out the tiers. Check them out. See if you want to join one of them. We appreciate it. As always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Sing the song again, Eliana.

I know you want to sing the 15 song. You want to sing the song. There were like three songs we did during this. So I was like, which one? OK, well sing your favorite. Oh, I don't know. Oh, memory. It's memory.

Oh. And now to play you out is Eliana with memory. Memory alone in the moon. Beautiful, bellissimo, bellissimo, bravo, bravo. I was beautiful then. Goodbye. Arrivederci, goodbye.