Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 262 — ASOS Daenerys VI

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

'Do all gods feel so lonely?' Daenerys wonders as she stays in Meereen for 11 years.   Background music Silver Flame Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ --- Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon reads A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 262, DeNary 6 in a storm of swords. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. one of your hosts, Eliana. I had like this whole thing that I feel like I was going to open up this episode with that I wasn't necessarily about De Neri's. And honestly, like, I forgot. I forgot what it was. I thought about it like two nights ago.

So that's the story. I think it's going to come back to you mid-episode. I'm willing it to come back. Okay. Here it comes. I really hope it comes back, too, because I don't know what it was. I do know that we're recording a bonus Patreon episode. for patrons in the stranger tier and above this month,

where you're going to hear a lot of Eliano's thoughts as well as my own, this month will be catching fire. Episode 9 slash 10, we're going to go ahead and call it that episode 9 will be the first part. Mm-hmm. Probably. Of the quell. Of the quell. And the second part of the episode will cover the other part of the quell,

and we'll get into the final act after that. yes we have quite a bit to choose so that is our episode for august we will probably finish that in September so you can look forward to hearing both parts in completion at the end of September leaving us ready for the final act of catching fire indeed indeed and of course a couple of other things happening for us is on our Patreon we have our patreon brunch slash happy hour Brapi hour. This month it's at the very, very tippy end, August 31st, Sunday at 2 to 4 p.m. E.T. available for where patrons in the desert tier and above, $10 and up. There's channels and stuff. Oh yeah, there's so many good channels to chat in. You'll find your favorite place we

promise. And next month, our Brapi hour will be September 21st because we're ready to fall into September together on the 21st. We'll see you then. No emails or tweets of note. We have a big fucking episode. Denary's 6 in a Storm of Swords, the last Storm of Swords Denary's episode, our penultimate Storm of Swords coverage.

Maybe I was thinking about how I was telling my partner the thing that you and I like to say about how, what is it, Josh Saffron, right? Could you Oh, yeah, my bestie? Yeah, and George R. Martin couldn't do gossip girl. That might have been it. Who knows? But yeah, let's go into this lighting round.

Absolutely. All right, Eliana, this is a really weird one, and you're just gonna have to stick it out with me. There's gonna be some spatterings of groups of people that I just thought could happen all at once, and I'm gonna start that off with Tyrion 7, Sonsa 4, Tyrion 8, Sonsa 5. Tyrion's wife's family is murdered by his family

and the vibes are pretty bad between them. Sonsa and Tyrion attend the wedding events. Oh my god, this is just like the summer I turned pretty season three, but Tyrion gets accused of poisoning Joffrey. I wish someone would poison Jeremiah. Sonsa escapes with Dantos, but reveal Littlefinger is behind whisking her away. She should just choose none of them. She should run away and not really any of them.

That's my stance. About Sonsa and Belly. Yes. Jamie 7. Jamie returns to Kings Landing. Wow, that was simple. Davos 6. Davos is almost beheaded by Stannis, but instead reads a letter that changes everything.

Wow. John 8 and Aria 12. Some of Mance's army falls, but so do many of John's brothers. He is given the wall. Aria dreams of running with wolves. Tyrion 9 and Jamie 8. Tyrion's imprisoned and a champion rises to stand for him. Jamie reads the white book.

Sonsa 6. John 9, Tyrion 10. Sonsa reunites with some family in the veil and tries out a new name. The remains of Manta's army tries to fight again, and John is imprisoned by his own brothers. Tyrion is doomed to the black cells. And that brings us to Janary 6 in A Storm of Swords. And I quote, an ancient proverb, you could be the king, but watch the queen conquer. I was just telling people about this verse again and reminding them about it this past weekend.

Because I was reminding them about, I guess, the Tbilie Bobby Brown didn't. And they're like, what? They were so confused. They were like, what? When did that even happen? I was like, do you guys not remember? Oh, wait. I have a big historical thing that happened.

You know, there is a marriage proposal in this chapter. But you guys, today, even more important, Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift got engaged. Is it important? I don't know. Actually, it probably isn't. But I just felt like I really wanted to incorporate that into the. episode. Oh, and speaking of that, you know, previous weeks, I think this might have been actually on Patreon that we talked about this, but Liam Neeson and Pamela Anderson's relationship was

revealed to be fake. Oh, what? Just like the Hunger Games, so there's something for our next episode. I didn't know that. No, I... It was, uh, yeah, I heard it's fake. So... But what the fuck? Much to consider, but first, we need to consider Dineri's six. Danny broke her fast under the persimmon tree that grew in the terrace garden, watching her dragons chase each other about the apex of the great pyramid, where the huge bronze harpy once stood. Marine had a score of lesser pyramids, but none stood even half as tall. From here, she could see the whole city. The narrow, twisty alleys and wide brick streets, the temples and granaries, hovels and palaces, brothels, baths, gardens and fountains,

the great red circles of the fighting pits. And beyond the walls, the pewter sea, the winding Skahazaran, the dry brown hills, burnt orchards, and blackened fields. Up here in her garden, sometimes Danny felt like a god, living atop the highest mountain in the world. Do all gods feel so lonely? Some must, surely. All right, you guys, this is it.

This is the thesis of Danny's story This is the thing that I talk about Like literally every fucking episode All the time Maybe not even only in the Danny chapters This is It's finally here My life's work

This two paragraphs And by that I mean George wrote it Do you think Taylor Swift feels this way? I'm refusing to dignify you with a response right now I refuse So this line though, right, of do all gods feel so lonely and you have this literal manifestation of her being removed, being very high up apart from everyone with her being atop the pyramid and later on, like, of course, with flying on dragons, it's a literal idea of being too far up. I think that's kind of funny and interesting when you contrast that with like the people who are underground are the children in the forest and they're all into skisking. changing, which is very much

the other way, maybe like too far in like a bad way. Yeah. Oh, that's so Robin Hobb of George. Is it? I don't know. I can't. Anyways, you'll find out. I think getting book talk recommendations for Robin Hobb stuff. See, it's coming. It's coming. Ultimately, though, you know, it's exploring the theme

of loneliness and power and the relationship between the two with the isolation that power imbalance causes for you. And I do think it's interesting that in this opening line and paragraph of everything that De Neri's can see, it's all about like the landscapes and the buildings, right? It's like gardens and fountains, but none of it is about the people that are in there. Yeah. And it's really well ducked because George kind of, you know, he cuts off like, huh, it sounds like they're going to go in the sewers for the next adventure. But clearly, we know that in between they have taken. the city, right?

So you have to kind of fill in the blanks here, and there aren't any people around also. Yeah, it's an empty... Things are bad. Empty city at this moment. And I've been playing a lot of Catamari Damasi, by the way, so, like, I completely understand what it's like to be a god floating above the earth. Yeah, I forgot it.

How does the song go? It's like, da-da-da-da-da-da. I don't know. I'm, like, clearly off-key. I don't remember it, but I can kind of visualize it in the vibe. Yeah. the rolling and I'm playing it right now in my hands. Yeah. I never, I'm actually like not very good. I need to be better at like rolling the things very fast. I don't think I'm very good at like rolling everything together. And I wish I were. Yeah, it's also because like when you are, you have to go on a straight line and keep going and you shouldn't spend time turning around and lose your inertia, right? Like the goals like just keep going in circles. And that's how you're going to win. Maybe, yeah, maybe I need to like do more of that. I need to try that. But yeah, what a vibe. Go. Get a little stone.

Like Hanamari Damasi, Damasi. Yeah. You're acting like that's something I would do. I would never do drugs. Oh, yeah. Sorry, we don't do drugs. None of us. We've never done drugs ever.

Masande serves a neri's breakfast, and they talk about Noth in its peaceful ways. Danny promises to take her there one day. There's this line about thinking of the Lord of Harmony and how there are these hordes of butterfly women you could make or unmake at a word. and about like how he's probably like alone all the time which again plays into those themes but also it's a little bit about like the making and unmaking of Jora that's very much weighing heavily on her mind throughout this and then of course it comes to the forefront there there's also this line here if she would not want to be eternally at war as she ponderes the gods compared to like the gods of the red priests and I think that's kind of funny because on one hand you could think of it as like a lot of people all the time internally at war. I mean, I think there are some people who know peace. I'm not one of them.

And on the other hand, the story suggests that eternally at war might have to be like where she has to go for a little bit. For the thing she wants, right? Yeah. That's really loud. That's what she chooses at the end of this chapter, right? The coin is spinning the entire chapter. And finally at the end, she says, fine, I'll rule. But to win Westeros, it's war. Also that you point to point out like how she says the red gods or the red priests of the god of the red gods like that they're eternally at war and i think that's really interesting because that's who wants to support her oh that's a good point yeah i mean like we see it right they're a they're a little they're a little militant they're all like yeah let's burn kids you know but also like um but also like um

burning the calisar could she unite them hmm i mean probably And I mean, like, the difficulty about staying in Marine, which she's going to do later here, is it kind of necessitates you being a little bit always at war in order to keep that peace. And I don't think, like, it's the wrong choice. I do think, like, as we'll expand on, you need to use force in order to enforce the system that she is trying to create. But anyways, and I know we'll talk about this more later. There's the imagery of the flies, and that's kind of hinting at us, like, hmm, dead stuff. And I do, when in regards to like, Missande and Deney's being like, I'm going to take you home. And Monsi's like, no, it's okay.

I don't really want that. She's like, I'm happy to be here with you. And I do kind of wonder what she really wants here, right? Like, she's not really in a position to tell us what she truly feels. And like, on one hand, I understand why Denares wants to help Misande go home because, after all, like, that seems like a reasonable thing, right? Like, who doesn't want that? And especially because it's Denarius's deepest desire.

And she's also projecting a little bit of like, I mean, that's what Jora wanted, right? Like, to go home. And that's why he did all that stuff. Maybe that's what Missande wants. And, like, I'm not saying that Missande doesn't want to go visit Noth again. And I'm not saying that Slavers Bay is her home. But I am saying that she's really young. And I don't know if she sees Noth as her home.

Because, like, you know, I'm thinking about things like... I think I'm thinking about dreamers in the U.S., you know, and that people, like, with the Dream Act. and like, because if there's anything I'm going to do, it's insert my own political agenda into my podcast, and, you know, people... Fuck, yeah. Coming here really young, and it's like, are they not basically American? And obviously, it's a different situation. Monsu was taken from her home, right? But, like, you know, we see stories of people who are displaced.

I think a really good way of looking at that is there's this book edited, and one of it, the accounts is from Malala. called We Are Displaced. And people, some people, they definitely want to go back home, right? When it comes to, like, refugee communities as well and things like that. But some people choose to stay here, or they come here very young. So, like, where is their home? And for some people, they would see, it's the U.S. for Ms. Sonday, I don't know. And it's okay if there's no answer and there's no clear-cut answer.

Yeah, I think the bigger answer is that, and along those similar lines, and what some of those programs that the United States used to give a fucking shit about and fund and not villainize and terrorize against their own people. But like what I, we're already on all of the lists. We're just getting tagged. List me, baby. List me. Yeah.

My bigger question is, is like, what is the path to her having the opportunity to decide what her home is, right? Yes, Danny says, you know, you don't have to stay here. Well, you have a choice, but what are the choices? Where is the path to Missande having those choices? She's 11 years old. So, I mean, her workers permit to work at age 11 years old obviously might be expired someday. But if it is going home, where's the path to that?

Is she earning wages? Sure, she's getting room and bored with wherever De Neri's goes. But practically, like, yes, she can do whatever she wants. But practically, no, Missandi cannot do what she wants. She does not have a path to independent wealth, except maybe if Denaries gets Westeros and gives her what a place to live or she can live with Denaries. And I think there's something so admirable about Denarius's vision and dream that everyone that

doesn't have a home can just make a home, right? But where's the path to the means to have a home for everyone? Yeah, I agree. And she kind of puts that rag tag group together of these people with no homes, Jora, Misande, her, right? Like, people that have a dream and people that can bring a dream together. But where's the route for everybody else back to their red door? That's a good point.

Yeah. What about all these other people and these insolid? And sometimes, like, sometimes you don't get to return home, right? Sometimes, like, you have to make a new one. It's, like, literally destroyed. Who knows? Things like that. But it's also, like, for Misande, that's a great point.

Like, does she have the means to go home? And, like, in some ways, maybe her situation's a little better. off in like, it sounds like you don't need a job in Noth. You just go and you eat fruits and I'm like, your poops must be insane. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it's maybe like that. I don't know. Insane poop. No, but also her brothers are here, right? So that's the next thing is her brothers are in Denei's army. Yeah, that's true. Her family is here. You know, her family is no longer probably in Nath. Maybe she has family there. Maybe she doesn't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't learn. But here, as well as later, the way Masande speaks of Nath, it's compared rightfully

so to Denerys' house with the red door, right? It is, it is the same. It's a place that, to your point, you probably can never go again, a place that is gone, a time, a people, a home that you had that you're trying to rebuild, you're trying to find anywhere. Yeah, plus Nath has kind of described, you know, speaking of places that are gone. It's described like Paradise. It's described like a Garden of Eden, Innocence lost. And maybe De Neres's vision was also like, I'm going to take you home to Noth, but yes, your brothers are here,

but we'd bring them home too. I don't know. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I assume. Yeah. But exactly, if she just drops her off now. Like, you see, it's just, there's no answer. Yeah. Drop her off wave.

Like, I'm imagining, like, with the band. Goodbye. They'll be with me. Bye. Yeah. Danny has helped to dress by Ziqui and Erie, and she wears a purple Samite robe with her dragon crown. She reflects on how she looks like a little girl and not like a conquer. And I'm like, I don't know. Have you considered it's because like you are a

little girl? Whatever. Um, but yeah, she has taken her first steps to becoming a conquer, even if no one's calling her that at this time. And she recalls the fall of Marine, remembering how she led the attack, kind of, but they wouldn't let her go to the front and watch the city fall. Yeah, she wears these silver slippers here, and it said they have heels so high that she thinks she'll topple. She's afraid she's going to topple off of the high place that she's standing, which it all feels like fashion hour, a giant metaphor, right? Because it's so fragile. The situation here is so fragile. And also being that high up, like a god from your perch with high heels, it could all break. She could all topple at the wrong step in these high heels. That's a good

point. It's also, like, I don't know, you highlighting that made me think of, you know, when little girls try on their mom's like high heels or something and her trying on to having to fulfill these adult roles when she shouldn't need to. I was surprised, like, at this mention of high heels. I was like, wait, have I just not paid attention to other heels and how high they are before described? I assume like there's kind of a couple of other people that wear high heels and it's probably not only like limited to women you know like men were wearing heels a little like back then too yeah but i just mean like in the books like in the actual books that we read like i don't remember a high heel description so this was surprising to me i'm like oh high heels so

exotic the fighting was brutal and her ships were used as battering rams and the defender's resistance eventually crumbled and to be honest like brilliant plan on deniers's part great idea. We have a line here of Her dragons had roared as one in that moment, filling the night with flame. The slaves are rising. She knew it once. My sewer rats have not off their chains.

First off, am I the sewer rat? No, JK. If I were, I'd be barrisen. Not Jorah, please. There's a rat character in Farsier that makes me think of you. It's carried by a very specific character actually, so

the whole character kind of makes me think of you, but... Okay, nice. I love that. We have this... Oh, they're really annoying, though, so... That does also make you think of me. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's this line here about the dragons roaring as one that kind of reminds me a little of like this series' dragon dream regarding the dance. Yes, and the dragons road is one. And the dragons roared is one. And then we have this, like, laughing jester phase

that had been on like, one of the iron figureheads. And I think this is me reading too much into it, but I was like, Tyrion? I don't know. Maybe. Like, foreshadowing our thoughts of it. I don't know. Probably not.

It's just a laughing jester face. Oh, wait, because, but also. He and Victorian are going to meet, and it's going to be hilarious. Can't wait for that. Yeah, I'm also considering my sewer rats have gnawed off their chains, but also she puts the dragons below and chains them quite literally. Well, that was not a good trait. deal. Danny had entered the city and seen the destruction with the dead piled high before the

broken gates. She ordered the execution of the city's leaders, nailing them to posts as an example of justice against slavers. Yeah. So before we get to the nailing of the post stuff, you know, there's a whole thing about like when they're paraded out, the slavers are unclothed and they're described as, you know, like really just like bedraggled and shit like that. and it makes me think of when she saw those lovers a few chapters ago

and how you can't tell the difference between like are they leaders, are they slaves, what class are they? The trappings are all gone. Yeah, when it's all stripped away, they're just men, human. And women and children. Yeah. Danny had felt kind of conflicted upon being closer to the dying men, but she kind of reaffirms that this is for the children.

There's something kind of stoic here. We go through here and there's a lot of Agan coming through. not just in the thoughts Danny's having of am I a conqueror now and what she thinks later of how Egan and his heads of the dragon would have acted, but also in that stoicness and in her manner. This is in a way, if we think of this as DeNaris's beginning of conquering after Carth, this is similar, right? I think of it as Egan too in a way of what he would have been doing.

He's not thinking maybe potentially of the future of Westeros as he took land in a glorious and celebratory manner, like, oh, I won, I did this, but more repressed like Danny here. And there are hints of Agan throughout this chapter, even where he isn't named or mentioned, right? Almost with Cleon having two wives and Danny being a third, Egan and Durandon, right, when he rejects Durandin for the third. And even the idea of Agan, like, he goes to meet Toren, and he was about to go to the West to go, like, battle. But he's like, nope, got to go meet Toren, Stark. And then Torin bends the knee. There's no bloodshed.

Lots of maesters were there consulting with Egan before he goes to go to Torin. Like something's up with that and probably echoes what we'll see with Danny and John, right? Will she be distracted from? Oh, in front of her? I mean, if that's what she wants. But no, I mean, Eliana, get your head out of the motherfucking fantasy gutter. I'm talking about. if she stops and goes to do dealings with John Snow

in the middle of late coming to Westrose. Like if that takes precedence priority, it makes sense. There's even something interesting in that Egan, when we think of his romances with Bessena and with Rainey's, we kind of classify them each with their own personalities and their own interests. Rainies as kind of the flirtatious with life sibling, right? She's fun.

She loves art. She dances. She's kind of soft and feminine-coated and everything that Egan loves, apparently, but also Vesnia, who is stern and very political and very, like, austere and reserved in many ways and how she's kind of seen almost as the more martial of the two sisters. And then you kind of forget that Egan loves both things and both of them, right? But Egan loved Rainey's, and he has that softness within him, too. So there's almost like this Danny Dario violence and poetry kind of relationship that's blossoming and budding in the undertones of this chapter and the sentimentality that you know Egan had for his sisters, right?

But especially for Rainies, he had that sentimentality for Rainies. So there's something going on here too is like Agan had a soft side too. He liked that. He also had a small, soft poetic side to him. He wasn't just this martial conqueror and warrior. And I think we're seeing a lot of that come through with Danny as she kind of tossles with like, what's the future of Marine? What's the future of Slavers Bay? What's the future of my people that are following me?

What's the future of me and what's the future of my throne I have to go get? And weighing them against everyone's feelings, weighing them against everyone's histories, everyone's desires, and not just about her on that personal level. Yeah, I agree. Egan is a lot like belly. Stop! Oh, my God, which sibling would you marry? Vesena or Rainies? You'd have to marry me, I guess.

He just both. Belly, just marry them both easy and then go conquer cousins. Oh, my God. She should be conquering the beach. Queen belly of the two sands. Conquer or conclin? Conkling. Get out of here.

I hate you so much. But I really like the way you broke that down. I hadn't thought about Egan and the two sisters as kind of like. like De Neri's, especially later on between, like, not necessarily his dar, but in a way, his darrow and like Dario, I feel like his dario, I feel like his dar is not very much like either Vesignor or Rainey's, but that kind of like those two poles that are trying to like vie for his heart, his balance. His balance of his heart. Not just in his choice of partner, but also in his choice of Westeros, right? Like also how he balances his people in the conquering of Westeros. Yeah. Yeah, he flew over from Philadelphia. Oh, my God. That is not in the books, by the way. Yeah, she drives up.

I also thought when you're talking about Torin Stark, I was thinking that there's this part of Denaries where I'm not saying she should have shown the slaver's mercy at all, but her thinking about this being justice and showing that. and, like, what is the line between the two? And I understand why she did it. But also, like, I think you needed that kind of show for it here. And I think the way that George has in retaliate is actually, like, not necessarily how it would have gone. But anyways, based off of his inspirations, but that is always, like, I think, a question within the books, like, that balance of justice and mercy.

And Agen knew how to use both. And we even see that, like, later on, right? when she's trying to decide what to do with both Barriston and then Jora, one receives justice, one receives mercy. And more again, things to come, though. Even later, when she's talking to Jora and Barriston about them coming from the sewers, she thinks of them as brave men. She emasculates them a little then thinks of them as brave, but, and it gives that thought to justice of when can a man be brave. Well, when he's afraid. Oh, they're not saying when he's full of shit.

Well, yeah, Jorra is already. full of shit, though. That's the metaphor that was happening here. Danny's court is held in a cold chamber and she refuses to sit in the carved harpy throne, choosing a simple ebony bench instead.

She begins to wonder which of her companions may betray her next. Well, well, well. This is not a novel thought. This is not an interesting thought. Everyone said it like 20,000 times over the years, but whatever. Deney's thinking through the symbolism of everything and also how she wants to rule, of course.

And we all love that she chose a simple bench and the lack of comfort. And it's very much in line with Egan's rationale of choosing the Iron Throne. And she doesn't say it explicitly in this chapter, but obviously, obviously, that's the inspo. Yeah, simplicity and all the things you can strip from those trappings of power. You should. Yeah. She gets it. She gets it. The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust.

If I can find them, I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Egan and his sisters. What if she just found wives? Yeah. Just throwing it out there. I mean, I'm not against it, yeah. Yeah. I think.

I'm just like, why they got to be men. She's got time to try things right now, you know? Yeah, I'm just like, hmm, are there two men in the world that you can trust? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Brown Ben Plum reports to her that Marine is calm again after the brutal punishment

but Danny is uncertain about how long the peace will last. Sorry, LMAO, I just want to point out that literally just moments ago she thought, where can I find two men in the world I can trust? Who's going to betray me next? And then Brown Ben Plum walks in the fucking room. It's like, it's me. So if you care. To find me.

I've stolen the dragon. There's this line. Was the night as quiet as it seemed, Danny asked. It seems it was, your grace, said Brown, Ben Plum. It seems it was. What the fuck? Yes, man, kind of motherfucking bullshit fucking ass. Selina Meyer-Karon interaction was that?

It seems it was, your grace. Just like saying shit, just like, will this please her? But also, like, was it quiet in the night? Because the night would be the time people can move in the city. And there's been a lot of things happening in the city. So I'm just like, was it quiet in the night? Doesn't seem like it. I feel like a lot of things were happening.

But, you know, very strange. Yeah, you're right. That is a pretty strange answer given what we know. Maybe it's just, like, relatively more so. I don't know. Yeah. Speaking of Selena Meyer things and Denary's a storyline from here on out, what you said inspired

the slat in me is the Nairis giving Dario to the young guy the same as Selena Meyer breaking up with the Qatari ambassador which I mean Literally yes

I think it every time I watch the motherfucking show I'm not kidding Are you serious? I'm like one's obviously way worse because you're giving Dario I watch it at least once a year

so like ever since I finished it and I think it's the same It's the same No it is the same And that's the thing is, like, yes, there are definitely some Selena Meyer-Sercy moments, but there are also a lot of Selena-Mey moments. It's like, you know how, like, Democrats are useless, but, like, at one point in their career, usually they try.

Yeah. I mean, like, there's a little Selena Meyer maybe in all of us, like, what I'm mad at and, like, you know, maybe, maybe all of us. Also would say, like, Selena Meyer, fucking Ray the gym guy is also kind of Dario, I guess. some aspects. I never thought about it, but... Yes. Because he's kind of a weirdo. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Oh, my God. Can you imagine Dario trying to, like, publish a book? Ew, is Andrew Jora in a way? In a less, like, take it less metaphor. Like, really abstract, though.

Betrays her, sells her out. Yeah, true. Says he wants best for her, isolates her. And is Catherine Drogon? Drogon, why is that your fur? Why is that your scales, Drogon? Yeah, back to the betrayal. Yeah, back to the betrayal. So, De Neri's, you can see her starting to fixate on it, of course. It's getting, coming more to the forefront since after the House of the Endangie and dying, but also especially now that Bearston and Jora have awoken this fear in her.

Knuckleheads. Yeah, she, she wants. D. D. and Tweedle D. and Tweedle dumb. No, they're not like friends. She wants to trust Bradven Plum And I see why, right? A lot of the way that he seems, like he reads very much like A nice guy, like Barrison, right?

Trustworthy, he's got the gray hair. Like, of course, he's like a dad. But not like a dad, you know, a dad. But just because... Hell, he might even be related. Honestly, yeah, true. But just because he's friendly looking, actually turns out does not mean he's trustworthy

because the books are always telling you, you know. Appearances aren't everything. Whereas I think it's interesting that turns out Dario, who seems the least trustworthy, he does seem very dangerous and stuff. Like, I think he actually is pretty fucking loyal. I think he does really like her. He's someone who's imprisoned for her because I guess somehow we have also transformed into a Dario, like, podcast recently in the way that we became a Ill and Pain podcast. Yes.

Throwbacks. Everybody gets one of theirs, you know? Everybody gets a little bit of something and supports the other on this podcast. I don't know how mine became Illen Payne a long time. time ago, but, uh, that's tragically who you are as a person. I know, right. But yeah, Dario, I don't know. I trust him. Yeah, I do think you're right, though. Like, there's something in me that's always pointed that, like, he's not, Dario is not evil to Danny. He, like, is what he is. He's what he appears to be. Yeah, that's a great point. He's very much what he

appears to be. So that's my take on him. Like, he's not, he looks frivolous and ridiculous and crazy, but that's because, like, who he is on the inside is actually authentic to what he says. Yeah. And just, people don't know how to deal with authenticity, you know? Yeah. Sorry. You know, real authentic.

I'm sorry that he's too quirky for you. Yeah. Real eyes, real eyes, realize, real eyes. Dario dying his hair for the eighth time this week. Oh, my God. He's so crazy. He is. He actually is a little crazy, but, like, in a fun way.

Yeah, I love it. I was trying to explain to my roommate. I was like, he's not that bloodthirsty, like, when, when? And he's like, um, his introduction actually shows. He just does what needs to be done. Yeah. And he's got balanced. You know, he does that and he's like, here's how to forage.

I'm wondering, going to throw this out there, were Egan, I mean, like, I know World of Ice and Fire tells us that they were. But I mean, did Egan always feel like that tight with his sisters? Were they always like this way that Tenieri's imagine? to them as like the people that he could truly trust in the world because I mean like she's all like yeah it's us against the world and I maybe it wasn't always like that for Egan and his sisters right especially given how like I mean arguably like Vesanya came a little bit for Rainies's kids and like the the kids of that line in general you know you know um yeah or like grandkids whatever and

she did come a little bit for Aene's let's be real I mean like I don't know. Are Rainies' kids even actually Agens? I don't know. Like, not by semen. You know, like, like, Agan's a daddy stepped up, too. It's all I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. And so, were they that tight? Interesting. Yeah. There's something interesting in that, too, that were they that tight? No, I don't know. I don't think we know. I think they did a lot of separate things. Not everything together. Yeah. Yeah. Sanya seemed to have a lot of tough love for him, right? too, I mean... That's true. And I also do think, and we're going to probably talk about it a little bit,

but when we talk about, like, Egan's prophecy, which George talked about in 2018, and then House of the Dragon created something off of that to dramatize it for the series, right? Like, Agan definitely had a little dream, a little number, a little ditty going on, where he's like, oh, Westeros, but I do like what showrunner Ryan Condom I'm sorry Ryan Condal

Please don't listen to my podcast But if you do I'm sorry What showrunner Ryan Condal Yeah he is And his team like I like what they did with the dramatization Where they anchored that and made it that the You know you have the daddy passing down the secret Or the queen passing down the secret to their heir

And that connection right Like when your air is ready you tell them the song of ice and fire prophecy but if you like think about it from that point of view Rainies and Vesena may have been privy as well to that prophecy

and they both have two different lines so because they have two different lines there might have been competing prophecy usy going on right like no I'm the one no I'm the one so it's interesting to look at it of like something like and maybe this also comes from watching the village last week but something about like parents holding intel right like having information when they parent you that as a parent

you choose to give parts of it away at what time right and that's a power and it's having more power over that child in some aspects but then giving it away and like giving the truth of it away or giving part of it away and hoarding that is like such a familial theme that can happen in real life as well as in storytelling. So like there's something interesting about hoarding that power of that prophecy and who knows and then how it gets handed down. And then when you're like following the gender dynamics in that succession of prophecy, I find that so fascinating.

I hope George adapts that from the TV show that he's writing about. Yeah. I mean, he might. I think also, like, or no, they seem, I guess, at odds, who knows? There's drama, I guess, there. As we can tell from not a blog. Okay. Old people are cranky.

Yeah, not to speculate. I don't hold it against him, yeah. Too much. We've probably already discussed this before, but I'm like, did Vesanya, would she, like, I don't know if that fulfills the prophecy, because I don't know if Rainies' kids or Egan's, even though it's just from my blood. Right. So she's like, I'm going to go make, like, a magical clone.

and turkey baster myself and be like oh my god agin i have a son no literally though like i do that's what i'm saying there's dynamics that could be introduced here if we were into fan fiction if we had the time for fan fiction we'd probably love that shit we would write we're writing it all day long on this podcast this is fan fiction yeah when did we become a fan fiction podcast what did that happen this one's Dark Brother of the Turkey Baster Um, okay So

Denarius puts together some laws About how murderers should be hanged And looters, people who steal They're going to get their hands lopped off And stuff like that And I'm just saying Some of the laws that she sets up It sounds very Stannis-esque

That's all That's interesting too Because we just had the Davos almost dying chapter. Oh, I don't know. He was almost executed recently. I forgot. I was too busy reading Roman numerals wrong. Um. Jesus Christ. So, Danny is irritated by the constant flies in the city. Dario says they're dead men's revenge and that the corpses are breeding maggots. Maggates breed flies. She commands them to begin getting rid of corpses and Misande suggests they clean and return the

bones of the dead to their families as a kindness. And Danny agrees, the widows will curse me all the same, she thinks. Interesting to think of her as somebody that's leaving like a line of desolation and a line of widows, especially it does remind me of like the Dance of the Dragons, how we have a high quantity of widows from the fighting then. And of course, Robert's Rebellion. The high mortality rate there. also real really like caldrogo he also had his flies and then died and then she was the widow that was unhappy and cursing people uh and maybe even when she shows up at the mother of mountains later right like maybe there's gonna be some widows that will curse her then when she kills some cows oh also true or bless her or the widows that live there yeah yeah the ones who live there they'll be like wow oh that's cute

You, yeah, bless her instead. Yeah, bless you. Also, real a Feast for Crows energy, get ready. Get ready for a Feast for Crows that Danny is not in. I was like, uh. But you can see the themes of the next one book that became two books is really what I'm saying. That George clearly was that and like this was Duncan Egg also being written at this time. And you can see that imagery there too.

So he really ramps it up during this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't like flies There were a lot this past weekend This line about it being like Dead Man's Revenge, that's what the flies are I thought that was like really interesting Specifically especially for Storm of Swords

Which opens up with a bunch of dead people doing revenge-ish stuff And then has like a dead widow Doing revenge at the end of this one Yes, yes Very literally All right, I'm about to say, like, in the next, like, in this chapter and even, like, the next few chapters for Danny's storyline, I'm about to say some controversial things about George. Like, for this one, I might be reading too much into it, but I don't know if George is trying to make a reference to strange fruit here.

In regards to the killers who are hanged and how they should be taken down, especially as Ben Plum calls them, like, past ripe and falling off, and it's with that same sort of language. and I'm like, are you trying to, like, make a reference to that song, which is about the lynchings of black people? Because if so, I don't think that was done well. Like, if these are the corpses of slavers, I just don't think it's right to make that reference and equate that in my opinion. But I could be reading too much into it. That might not be what George intended at all. That's all. And then the returning of the bones to the families and the widows.

And again, speaking of dead widows at the end of this book, makes me think of Ned needing to return his bones. Yeah, I don't know if he was making that reference. I didn't think about that. But I was thinking also of Ned's brother and father. Oh, true. Being burnt and their flesh sloughing off of their bodies as similar to this idea in the...

like aesthetic appearance like of of of of fruit you know coming off and like being past ripe and the bones with ned also it's interesting because it's like it's not a clean death like hanging them and letting them rot off of the off of their crucifixion like I'm not saying it's bad you should kill slavers but I am saying that like it's more overall so yes it's for a message, but also you've got bugs all over, it's a hazmat issue, the people get the message,

you showed up, you killed the guys that were the bosses of the town before, now you're the boss, like, it is a little like, all right, we get it, you killed them, get them out of here. So I do think, like, I don't know if I would have gone as much as the bones, that's kind of nice, but

I wasn't thinking of that, but I'm like, yeah, let's get that down. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. And I think even she's like, maybe I should take it down now because she does think later on. She's like, kind of in my own plaza punishment here, huh? Yeah. So. Like, is it justice?

Oh, speaking of things that are in the TV show based on the books, House of the Dragon. They talk about, like, in regards to some of these laws, like, how they come in with a basket full of lopped off hands and worms in regards to the penises that have been cut off because rapists are supposed to have their penises cut off. And it makes me think of that one night where Damon's like, let's fucking go. And they like, he and the city watch. Yeah. Police state.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's what's happening in the United States right now. We're chopping off hands. I mean, like, in many ways, other, yeah, probably. Other things like that. Maybe not. We've mobilized the gold cloaks.

I have no response, not because I disagree, but because I wanted, like, a witty response to put down ice, and then I just, like, had nothing and, like, I was talking about National Guard now, to be fair, yeah. Also, the National Guard. And I, like, had no good, like, lines. I was just too upset and mad that it was happening. So that's, that's what that pause was. We're on the list. Yeah, no, we're on, like, eight lists. So Dario reports that two envoys seek an audience, one from Astapur, one from Carth, and like, again, probably reading too much into this. But, well, actually, no, this one, I think I'm not. Maybe some John foreshadowing, because Zanarius thinks that Dario's outfit makes his eyes look purple as if he were some lost valier. And maybe it might be like fagin stuff, too, about, like, you wear the right thing and makes your eyes like a certain color, but, like, might be John, too. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yes. I do think that's, like, foreshadowing for that. that it might end up being John also that wears things and his eyes look indigo instead of maybe gray because it's easy to make your eyes look more indigo if you have gray eyes because I have gray eyes and I make those shit do whatever I want all the time. Yeah, maybe, I mean, it's because John's always wearing like goth clothes and not like colorful goth with the purple. He's only wearing black all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Black and gray don't really make those eyes super purple, bro. No, they don't. Mm-hmm. And also then you have Aegis

right? Like, we come and meet Egan soon, and his eyes are also blue that look purple. Yeah. So... I mean, he... I had, like, a random dumb thought. It's just a joke. But I'm going to tell you all. He's dying his hair blue because he heard that Danny was into guys with blue hair. He didn't hear that. It was all a joke. I'm sorry, everyone. Let's go. Oh, my God. Gail, the Astopori envoy arrives and declares King Cleon of Astopor's now in power. after killing the former rulers Danny is pretty pissed

She left a council of a healer A scholar and the priest In control of the city This sounds like a riddle when I say it But Gail claims that they betrayed her Selling the city back to the good masters And that Cleon was there to expose their plots Uh huh

Okay Missande questions Gail about Cleon's past revealing that he was once a butcher Who was owned by Grazdan Mo Ulhor And Danny agrees to pray For Cleon's wisdom and listens to Gail's offer

of an alliance between Astipur and Marine against Yongkai. I have given Astepur a butcher king. Danny felt ill, but she knew she must not let the envoy see it. Gail proposes a marriage between Danny and King Cleon to seal the alliance to allow Cleon

to destroy her enemies like the wise masters of young Kai. Danny refuses disproving of the idea, plus he has like 8 million wives already. Okay, weird take. The name Gail just makes me laugh. It makes me think of Baldur's Gate. I did choose Gail as my second romance option, so...

I know. I know this about you. Leave me alone. If it wasn't for the fact that, like, Cleon sucks and basically just tried to reinstall the same system and seems kind of like maybe an allegory for, like, how extremist groups can rise in a power vacuum, I think it's fine that he's a butcher

That's all What's wrong with being a butcher? Anyways No, nothing's wrong with being a butcher Yeah, they just made it seem so bad That he was also a butcher and they're like butcher king I'm like y'all chill, he's got a trade Anyways

It is interesting, it reminds you like the moon of the three kings And the nicknames that everybody had Oh yeah Oh yeah, the moon of the three I was thinking of like the fighting between the three sisters With what happens between these three city states later on Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah, but on land.

Yeah, less fun, less good seafood. That's true. Probably does. I haven't thought about that. I only think about the seafood in relation to Bravo's. Think of the ecological impacts of having those boats and ships, you know, destroying your sea too. That's why their oysters, clams, and cockles aren't as good. It's like fucking up wherever they're all, like, chilling.

Oh, my God, in this essay, I will explain the four seas. seasons and how they have failed to have a consistent anyways. So Monsi also speaks up for Danny and these, and I think that's interesting. Like, she's the one who's questioning the envoy, like, wait, hold up. Which Cleon are you talking about? And then she's like, Danny, this Cleon is like this. And then when later on, like, they're like, oh, but you could be Cleon's wife and he can give you sons.

And Danny's like dumbfounded. She's like, what the fuck? which is often how it feels when men randomly hit on you and you're like, what the fuck did you just say to me? And she has no response. But Masande knows very well, like how to speak up. Again, she goes like, well, how many sons did he give his other wives? And I think that that's really interesting that she has felt empowered to just speak for Dineries. She kind of did that in her old job.

But she's actually useful about it unlike the way that Barrison and Jora were whenever they would fucking do it. What you've kind of highlighted here, too, is once more, somebody seeks to use Danny's claim to empower themselves and not let her be her own player. And it's great that Ms. Sonday also speaks up very, like, that's very clever, right? Like, I really find some of her actions very akin to, like, Aria in the next book and how we follow her around in Feast in Bravo and some of the things that she learns and the way that she has to be clever around the same. too, right? Like, there's a lot alike there, so I love watching that. Give us the Monsi POV. And Danny, you know, on top of that, you have the next guy who also was going to seek

to, you know, take Danny's life. Danny's second visitor, the carthene captain of the Indigo Star, first problem, arrives and reports a grim situation in Astopor that there are dead men rotting in the streets and that King Cleon's thugs are seizing high-born boys to make new unsullied. Danny kind of remembers all of the horrors of Astonpore, and she knows that the same fate might await Marine if she marches west. This is a real big blow mid-chapter, and it's some of what really shapes the rest of the chapter and her choices,

hearing this, because it's everything that you've done that you believe in of your very mission, and it's been undone, beneath your very feet. And it's kind of reaffirming why she decided to string up all of the slavers. Like she's very much like, oh yeah, that was a good thing that I did because there's no middle ground. You either burn them all or they come back over and over, not unlike the others in that way. But Cleon has restarted the cycle, the very cycle that she is seeking to end in that very same cycle she seeks to end.

King Cleon, who has restarted it, has people here today that are like, you should marry this guy for legitimacy out here. You should marry this guy for legitimacy. But the rot goes deep. The rock goes very deep. Yeah, I mean, they think that this is the system, right? That you should just, like, go make a new version of it with you on top. Because, like, Cleon, Cleon was a butcher. He wasn't necessarily one of the slavers.

Apparently, I guess, the healer, priest, scholar allegedly tried to sell everyone back into slavery. I don't know if that's true or not. We don't really know if that's true or not. It could be just something that Cleon said to justify his campaign. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It reminds me of coin being like, President Coyne being like, yeah, we're going to just take capital kids and make them do hunger games when Cleon's like, yeah, I took high-born boys. I took slavers boys and I'm going to make them unsullied now. And it's just like, this is not, this was not the goal, sir. This was not what we were trying to do. That's not how we do it.

Like you were saying, it's like you need consistency and you need to continue hammering very firmly when you're trying to put a new system into place. It's going to take time and you've got to be consistent. Yeah, yeah, pretty much, honestly. Putting the old system in place rather rashly in the middle of all of that doesn't really work. Also, no new system was really put into place. No, it wasn't. She just left the scholar, the healer, the good. luck and a priest

peace deuce it up yeah you guys will build this city the fuck up I know it see you in a bit oh no money sorry you got to figure that out but here's all the riches that we found damn yeah that wasn't a good setup so that's what this book shaping her decision yeah yeah that's what we're doing in this chapter

the next one of like I don't know about all that but yeah the Carthian captain he's like also crying as he reports all this. He's like, it was so bad and horrible. And they're all like, he was crying because he was like soft in Carthine. I'm like, I don't know. Sounds like it was pretty bad. Like, I'm not mad at this man for crying and being like, it was traumatic and bad. Like, it sounds. Like, they are dramatic. It sounds heartbreaking. Yeah, to see that. Yeah. It sounds terrible. Yeah. So, yeah, the Carthian captain, though, also heartbreaking in a different way, request slaves in exchange for the trade goods. And the Neres is like,

pro no and refuses to sell any slaves from Marine yeah and then Daria was like okay well many Mirani slaves are asking to sell themselves to the captain by the way in hopes of better conditions than what's going on there and Danny's like all right fine but you can't take children or wives and then Misande gives some insight and Danny's like but we will be taking a tenth of the price from each slave transaction to fund Marines' future in gold, silver, or ivory. So, yeah, reminiscent, it reminds me a little of Tyrion's tax on the brothels, actually, and you kind of see some of what Tyrion and Danny are both dealing with and their ruling. But another blow, right?

Like, this is a second blow to have to compromise everything in your no-slave policy and say, sure, I guess. this is how it goes, but... It's kind of all leading up to the decision she makes at the end of, like, this chapter, which I don't know if, like, she was always going to make that decision, or if George was like, I need to

stall and keep deniery somewhere while I move the other pieces to be ready. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, the tale grew in the telling. That's fair. Danny needed to revitalize these economies, right? And, like...

Mm-hmm. A lot of, like I said, Marine and dance. I have, like, criticisms with whatever George did here. And she's struggling to figure out how to feed her people. This comes up many times throughout this chapter. She's honestly, like, been flanked by war generals and taught by Dothraki Raiders. Like, her mentors have been barrisen and Jora, okay? Like, she hasn't been given the same political education on how to run an actual government that maybe John or even the other Westerosie children, the highborn children, have gotten. And like, again, her advisors are a man whose job is sword and a guy who like completely failed at being a lord slash governing his people is like, I'm going to go like poach people instead

of actually fucking ruling. And so knowing all that, of course the people are starving. Like, this is a blind spot for her and I don't know if she even really realizes it. She has no idea how agriculture and these kinds of systems work. And much as she racks her brain, she can't really figure out a good idea here unlike when it comes to conquering she's kind of a military genius kind of like Rob she actually is very much similar to Rob in a lot of this

but there's also a part in what she does is absolutely like it's necessary right like I think you can't convince me like not to love Denneres for overthrowing slavery but she does have to stay longer in a bunch of these places in order to enforce like a new rule in gays and I don't know, maybe there are slaves who wanted to sell themselves back into slavery,

but I don't know that what George portrayed here makes sense and feels really divorced of its inspiration, which is, it's a lot of different things, but one of the main ones is Reconstruction era like U.S. post-Civil War. There are slaves that did reenter what was effectually slavery via sharecropping in other systems, but that's because other people were forcing them to make those choices, because the systems, like, with those laws, didn't give them other pathways to employment and, like, freedom, right? Like, there was two lacks of an enforcement, too much freedom given to the slavers, the former slavers, and the KKK, that, like, curtailed black people's rights when it came to slavery. And, like, if anything, like, we do have evidence of people selling themselves back into slavery when it existed.

But it wasn't due to a desire for comfort or, like, individual economic opportunity. but because they were separated from their family members who were still enslaved, that's such, such a different motivation that is not, that is completely different than what is being shown here. And like, I'm not saying that Denarius was wrong for executing the slavers. Like this, I have two ideas here, two ideas here, and the second one is better, but I'm going to go over the first one first. Get it. Get it, babe.

I'm not saying she was wrong for doing that, but like a random thought that I had was like, I don't know. If these former slaves are tutors, scribes, healers, and priests, the problem is about them having specialized skills, right? And it would have been more effective maybe to not destabilize some of these households, which actually have the means and maybe like the desire, the demand for these services, and force them. You're going to have to force them. They're not going to do it on their own because they're going to be, they're going to be fucking rude about it. They're going to be shitty about it, right? But you have to force them to pay people for this labor instead of merely taking it from.

them. They're going to disrespect them, but you're going to make them pay for it. Because now, I mean, those people don't have tutors and scribes and healers and priests. Right. Or, or you still execute the slavers, but you use the money that you take from their properties, like the wealth and stuff, from their properties and the rest of Marine. Don't let the sell swords fucking take all of it. All this plunderer that you have from here and the other places, use it to employ these skilled workers from the government, pay them to teach, like, the other insullied or the other freedmen to read and write, for example, create an education system, create this sort of economy, like use it to invest in that here, and then do something like what John does or what Littlefinger

does in the veil, right, using the money to trade for food from other places to get it during these times of scarcity. I'm just saying there were options. And then we still kill the slavers. Yeah, thank fucking God. But no, exactly. I mean, it comes back to what we said earlier together, right? Like chatting about Misande and about what the path is. There isn't a path. That's why now we have to make the path right this moment. Yeah. And it's time to start looking for the full path, not just in the moment. I think part of what I struggle with is George makes it seem like there was no path and therefore, I don't think he meant to do this. Maybe it's just other people like in how they read, whatever.

I don't know if it seems like there was no path towards this in the sustainability and so therefore people were like Denarius should not have done it but I'm just like no there's a path it was a good worthy goal yeah just got to keep writing the rest of the path out like what now? I mean that's just what

government does right? Like they have to like it's always you're finding a new path she's creating a government as she goes she literally is and I mean so everybody is kind of that's true we should all be involved in the government every day take civic action or um show up to town protest i don't know show up to town halls organize um get petitions for things in your neighborhood and use like i don't know those things someone down the down the street is like i want to put

a speed bump in the neighborhood oh yeah we just got speed bumps we got speed bumps we got like four bitch we have four on our street that's government that's government that's government Well, but also, it's people. It's the people. I mean, I do live in the we the people sometimes. Yeah. I'm like, at the same time, I'm about to brag about Philly, and then I was also like, but also, things are bad in Pennsylvania.

Philly, aka Dragonstone, where Belly came from to conquer cousins. Oh, my God. So the Carthene captain takes his leave, and Danny prepares for the next challenge. Danny reflects on what's coming and what she has to decide on, which is whatever path she chooses, leading to more hardship and bloodshed, mostly.

She orders Bellwost to bring the knights in. Sir Bereson and Sir Jora, you're brought before me today. In Youngkeyes last night. To seek their counsel. We have this line. Sir Barristin walked with his head, held high, but Sir Jora stared

at the marble floor as he approached. The one is proud, the other guilty. Guilty. Yeah, guilty as fuck. Danny also is feeling guilty. She, like, feels guilty towards Jora, and she wants his advice, but also she's like, I fucking hate him right now.

Piece of shit, go to hell. Okay. Is Barriston and Jora being imprisoned supposed to be, like, paralleling when Davos is imprisoned earlier this book? I just had this thought today but also obviously

I like Davos way more than Jora Yeah, it is similar. I mean it's similar time of the books. Okay, I'm not, I wasn't sure if I made that up in my head. I mean, that's one of the big themes, right? Like, trusting your advisors. For some,

it ends with a whole wedding, slaughtering most of your family and ruining your entire campaign to free the North and the Riverlands and the Mountain well, not the Mountain Vale. They weren't involved this time. But to try to free the Riverlands and the North from a corrupt rain. And unfortunately, you know, that ended.

And then also you have Davos and Stannis and Alistair Florent. And you have the betrayal of Sonsa Stark who betrayed her one true king, Joffrey, and his queen mother. True, true. That is what she did. Yeah, she's evil, I hear. Yeah, she's just like Jora. No, I'm joking.

Oh my God, always something with that. start girl oh just say crazy things on the podcast today we're quirky too Danny confronts Jora about all of the lies and the betrayal and she admits yes Jora helped her win Marine but she's angry at his deception she says her brother would have hanged them both and she doesn't specify out loud which brother but she does think well Viceris would I don't know about Rhaegar and I also don't know that Rhaegar would have. You don't know that he would have hanged... Yeah.

I don't think he would have hanged them. I don't think so. I don't know. Somehow, Ned did not. Yeah, that's about it. I agree. Denarius recalls their mission, which sucked asshole, as Chloe is written here.

They had been lucky as well as brave, and they have served her well in the past. Beresden protected her father, her brother. Yet... Abandoned Viseries to the usurper. Jora, I mean, we all know what Jorah did. We have a back-and-forth passage. Some truths are hard to hear.

Robert was a good knight, chivalrous, brave. He spared my life and the lives of many others. Prince Vissaris was only a boy. It would have been years before he was fit to rule and forgive me. my queen, but you asked for truth. Even as a child, your brother Viseris oft seemed to be his father's son in ways that Rhaegar never did.

His father's son? Danny frowned, what does that mean? The old knight did not blink. Your father is called the Mad King in Westeros. As no one ever told you. Viseres did. The mad king.

The usurper called. called him that. The usurper in his dogs, the mad king. It was a lie. Why ask for truth if you close your ears to it? I'm sorry, you guys just seen Chloe's face. I mean, she beautifully delivered that line, but she was in it. Looks wrong with my fucking face. She was in it, yeah. Yeah, she was in it. I ask for me to read a line If you close your ears to it Eliana

I just close my eyes to it Oh The bad king It's probably just a bug You know nothing to worry about Yeah I don't know I mean she is kind of like wait What that shit was true

He doesn't say it But you can feel her heart beating faster Just from the way she's whispering This in her mind in between Yeah Yeah true She's like uh oh Uh-oh.

Spaghettiers. Me, when I find out crazy runs in my family, which it does. Aw. Sir Barrison admits that he originally joined De Neri's to test her, right? That's why he didn't come forward right away. Wondering if she would be mad, like, her father. But he sees no sign of madness in her, and then tells her a little bit about, like, the Targaryen history of madness.

And then now Deneeris is really fucking spiraling. She's like, if she was not her father's daughter, who was she? And that's, I mean, that's a big theme. That's a big theme, right? Like, who are any of us? Tyrion kind of wondering, like, who am I now that I killed my dad? Who are, who are, like. Or John?

Yeah, John being like, who am. He was his father's son. Wasn't he? Wasn't he? Wasn't he? He says he thinks. But he's both. Yeah, he's both. I mean, he's definitely Ned's son, for sure.

The daddy sent out. There's a little rigar in there. Yeah. Or, like, I mean, the other stark kids and, like, thinking about like their relations and how they're like their parents but also you know Sam very much not like his dad yeah so it's like it's hard when because she she's letting her parents define her because she doesn't know them and herself and we just passed the jamie chapter whatever he wrote oh murder she wrote sorry what murder he wrote whatever no but that

actually is the point right like that's it though that's it like that's it Like, yeah, make your own. Jamie forced Brian to be his therapist, and then he was like, I get to decide who I am, not my dad. And maybe that's what everyone else needs to do, too, forced Brienne to be there. Wait, hold on. We're going to put a pin in that and come back to that one. Questions, comments, many concerns. Many concerns.

Many. Danny is really surprised by this back and forth about her father and her brother and by his knowledge, right? She's like, you have so much knowledge about my family. He says that he knows about her grandfather, King Jeharis II, in the history of the Targaryens. And that once Jeharis II told him, Madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen's born, the gods tossed the coin in the air, and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.

I'm not going to go over this line. I feel like we've discussed it before. It's not really like fucking 50-50. Okay. And. Yeah. Also, it's like a singing. It's not like,

Bible. It's also like, it's not because they're Targaryans and it runs into blood. Mm-hmm. It's because power makes someone, oh, well, I mean, like, I would be a little, I'd be a little interesting, too, if I, uh, got, had prophetic. If you were a Targary and you would be, conti, yeah.

Prophetic dreams. That would really, that would mess with me. I mean, that's part of it, right? That's part of it. But that, as well as, I think the idea is, like, when you have absolute power, it makes you a little weird. We see it happen to a bunch of other characters who also have... Zuckerberg, bro. You know, fucking...

He's a little weirdo. You know, like, it's going to make you fucking weird. It's going to make you a little weird. And sometimes, like, in a very, very bad way. Like, Elon's a richest man in the world, and he pretends to play Fortnite and be good at it. So that people think he's cool. Like, his child's, all of his many children think he's cool. And he's not cool and he's not good at it.

But he does that shit. And he's the richest man in the world. Do you think that's fun? That doesn't sound fun. Yeah. I don't think that man's having fun. He's not the richest man in the world, by the way. I'm sorry.

That was, like, a big exaggeration. But he's just, like, really, like, can you imagine being so rich and not. having fun. Yeah. Gods, you're a god and you don't have anything fun in your life. Yeah. You know who's even more rich, but has fun? Taylor Swift.

No. And she gets on her dragon all the time and she flies back and forth. She's got several dragons and by that I mean planes. And that's just greedy. You're right. She should marry two men and give her planes away to them. Yeah, and then we could kind of reallocate the resources here. Anyway, there's this line here.

I have nothing to expand on it. I just like it. This man can tell me what I came from. Like you said, it's in the blood. It's poignant. Well, at first you were like, it's not like it's in the blood, but it is in some ways. I mean, it's only in the blood in that, like, the prophecy part is. But the madness, I think, is just a power thing, because we see it, again, happen to a bunch of other characters because of power.

And also, again, I don't think... And the obsession and the paranoia and all of it, like that... That would drive anyone crazy. That would drive me crazy. I'm already crazy and crazy. It's not crazy. Like, I have a mental breakdown from work every day. Like, I'm not fucking strong.

I'm not a strong bitch. And I am a strong bitch. So what does that mean? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Same. Make that make sense.

Hold on. Make that make sense. No, it makes sense. Same. Same girl. There's also like two, thank you. Two responses to this. One.

one response from the great poet lord there's broken blood in me it passed through my mother from her mother down to me which one is that from clear blue off of virgin if you haven't streamed it you should be I know you have you're a good girl I'm bad at lyrics I'm really bad at lyrics it's in my Twitter bio right now because I'm a Lord Stan I know you don't know you don't go I'm just saying as a Lord's fan. And then also I love that that's like the secret like that's the thing about Barrison. Like there's so much history and I'm not calling him old. I'm saying he has lived so much.

I'm going to talk more about that. But like he has lived so much of Targaryen history and met so many of them. Like of course he's like this plump little bottle of desire for Danny. She's like I want to claw him apart and consume every memory. This is the closest she's been to like sell. Her lineage, her home, yeah, like, this is home. These things are home. Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's a good point. Like, she suddenly realizes, oh, this is extremely valuable. And he knows more than Jora. That's why Jorah was big mad. Yeah, fuck Jora. Don't fuck Jora. Well, yeah, clearly. Yeah, no, that's a good point.

And, like, he has a wealth of knowledge in many other ways. And I hope that one day someone will ask me about all of my older people knowledge. I have stories. That's it. I'll be like, let me tell you about 9-11. Jesus Christ. Actually, there's even people now who, can you believe? There are people younger than us who haven't lived through it. Isn't that crazy?

You don't need to tell me this. No. Danny asks if she's merely a coin tossed by the gods, but Barrison reassures her that she's the true born era of Westrose. And something else that he says is like, it's fine if you don't want me to serve you. I'm content to continue being strong Bellwoss. squire and I love that because it shows how great of a leader strong belwas is he's second only to denaries only only the only person who's seconded to deniers strong pelas I'm glad that we

both have chosen our side characters and we're sticking with them and danny's plot and just wait till the next book yeah exactly I like the way that she asks if she's merely a coin tossed by the gods, especially with some of the ideas that we get in the book of being a sword, right? Aria as a sword in a Game of Thrones with Serio's lessons, for example, you are not a girl, you're a sword. And then, of course, as she moves forward, the lessons like in Bravo's, but also what it means to be a sword, something that we kind of learn through Sandor Clegane or Jamie Lanister, what

it means to owe your body, even Barriston, to the crown. And Barristan, who is like somebody that's accomplished all these incredible feats, right? Like I think of Duskendale when I think of Barristan's prowess, especially. I think of all these different battles he's been in, the Blackfire Rebellion. He has done so many things in the eyes of Westeros for his fealty. Like he's given so much to the crown. He has given his opportunity for love. he's given his opportunity really for family like he's given his body he's given everything to that iron throne

to the man that sits that throne or now woman that will sit the throne wow it's herstery wow kill myself but so what does it mean to be a tool right it means that giving yourself you're fashioned into being a tool you're forged into being a tool to the king's will or the queen's will i'm reading a lot of Robin Hobb right now, everybody. I don't know if you heard last week, so I'm going to say it again. That now that I'm better than everybody because I've read Robin Hobb, finally,

there's a lot of this as a discussion of what that means and what you'll never have. I think of John Snow in the same way, right? Of as giving his body to the watch to all those other boys in the watch. Interesting, phrasing. Like giving his body to his brother's in the watch.

Whoa. Stop being dirty, Eliana. What's wrong with you? Get it out of the gutter. But by doing that, like, he gives himself to the wall. He literally is given the wall as his in the last couple chapters to man. True. And what's the vow?

Take no wife's, father, no children. Ba-bada-ba-da-da-da. You know the whole shebang. That's some of it. So is Danny just a coin? is you know as she's somebody in this chapter who she opens it feeling like a god but by the middle end of the chapter she's questioning do i have free will everything that i do comes undone beneath my feet whether i will it or not to come undone like i could work

really hard and it all comes undone do i not even have free will and i'm a god what's controlling me. And it's kind of a great question as she gets to the end of the chapter and what what kind of helps her to make her decision to stay as well. It is a good question. And like along with that, like there's a question of being a god versus, you know, as you said, is she just a coin? Is she just an object? Because that's what the Viseries told her long ago, right? You are the coin I'm using to purchase the Dothraki with. She's feeling pretty helpless right now. Feeling pretty very much in a difficult situation. Things are bad. Things are bad. Things are bad. That's actually legit how she feels right now. And she's going to keep feeling that way for a lot of

this chapter. And she tries to make light of the situation. She teases Sir Bereson that, what if she makes him to be her fool or her cook instead of her night? And he's like, I'd be honored, but I'm no great cook. And Danny then offers Barristan a sword from Brown Ben Plum. And he refuses to accept it unless it's from her. her hand, and she's like, oh, okay, gladly, you know, and she grants him the sword, and he kneels to swear his loyalty to her, and then De Neri's turns to Sir Jor, and she's like, this one's even more difficult, though, this one hurt more, and confronts him about his betrayal. She accuses him of lying and being the Enoch Various's creature selling her secrets to

her enemies. Boo! Boer. Sir Jora protests And he claims No, Colisi, I stopped spying on you And I never meant you harm And he tries to explain

And Danny's angry and she's betrayed And then she's like, oh, wait What about the time I was almost poison And my son, Rago And she flips her shit And he's like, no, no, no I tried to warn you of the poisoning I warned you, and she's like, no, and I can't forgive you ever, and I hate you.

And she demands that he leaves forever, giving him until dawn to pack up and go. And she orders Belwoss to remove him from her sight. And then he leaves, thank God. Yeah. Also one of the best things strong Belwess is not removing Dora from anyone's sight. Yeah. Amen. Hallelujah, sister.

There's like this thing. I didn't grab the exact line here, but Dora's basically like, if I didn't do it, someone else was going to do it. Someone else was going to inform on all these things about, you know, I'm like, okay, Jora, whatever. But, like, if that were the case, then, like, many more reports, probably. A, would have come in, B, like, you don't know that. Like, you know, speaking of someone who gave up their free will and the idea of, like, anything for sure, being like, oh, it was just meant to be, if it was me so, I was just, I'm like, oh my God. Anyways, yeah, it's a, it's a well-written scene, though, of him going, like,

I protected you, I fought for you, killed for you, kissed me. She thought, betrayed me. I went down into the sewers like a rat, for you. It might have been kinder if you'd die there. Danny said nothing. There was nothing to say. Daneris, I have loved you. And there it was, three treasons you will know, once for blood, once for gold, and once for love.

I don't really care about which treason is witch right now. Like, I'm not going to talk about that. We've talked about it. We talked about with Gray, who had a lot smarter things to say about it. I don't necessarily think this is one of the treasons, though. I don't think we've seen the treasons yet. I think the treasons are going to come in the last books. And I think they will come.

And I think that maybe they will tie to the other heads of the dragons and ways. And we'll see. We'll see what it all works out to be. I have my ideas. You have yours. Everyone has theirs. Think about them. Hold them in your heart.

I mean, Denarius has her ideas, too, you know? Yeah. they change all the time because it could be anyone any moment all the time fight every battle in my god i'm just kidding i do not wish to be at eternal war whatever the fuck she says oh wait was this a dune thing maybe something to think about i mean when i kept talking about the path forward i kept thinking about the golden path but not interesting i'm like but not but also yes but but that's not the A little bit, yeah. And, I mean, Slavers Bay in general has a lot of vibes in some aspects of, like, the environment and, like, the not being able to change the way that it's all set up.

But I do like the rhythm of how she's holding a lot back. I think we start to see a lot of Danny's thoughts get more and more internal, and she stops saying as many things out loud to her advisors. That's, like, definitely something that I noticed during this, that she's just internalizing. a lot more, she's thinking a lot more, you know, we're really, really deep these days. And the people that she has to fight between herself to be are becoming a parent here. Like, whether she's going to be a conqueror, a ruler, or just Denaries, the girl. She doesn't really have a choice here. Jora doesn't leave her a choice. Like, he defied her in front of everyone. When he had his opportunity to grovel, he literally made it impossible for her to forgive him. As a ruler, she had to

no choice but to banish him, let alone punish him further. And she's already having a lot of her actions and her ethics and morals come into question that she has to compromise them, right? Not just like crucifying the slavers as, you know, that was her big operational move. That was great. That's a huge message. She wants to show that huge message. And then she was forced to compromise after finding out what happened in her last stop. And then she was forced to compromise here. And now here's Jora walking in and refusing to be servile, refusing it all to be like, do his job. Like, this is his one job is to somewhat act appropriate in court in front of the team here. And he doesn't, he's defiant. He's, she thinks he's insolent, right? Like,

he clearly doesn't know how to treat with a king and doesn't respect Denaries as his queen or as a queen. He refused to be cowed. I mean, she had no choice but to do what she did. And I don't feel bad at all. I'll never feel bad for him and you can't make me. I love what you pointed out about, like, you know, she has to keep making these compromises. It takes a bit out of her, and I think that gets explored a lot next book. It's kind of like when Selena Meyer had to give up child care as part of her platform. Chloe's like, what the fuck? You open the I'm sorry, I did. Yeah, I mean, she has to make an...

You can't be lenient to someone who fucking stole your secrets. Like, she pointed out, you know, the poison. She's like, bro, I don't even know if, like, anyone would have tried to poison me if you didn't tell them I was pregnant. Yeah. Like, that's a problem you created. Yeah, you created that problem, Jora. Yeah. He's like, I saved you.

She's like, you also are the reason that I got poisoned. Yeah. He also is constantly defying her in front of everyone all the time. And not just like here, but yeah. He needs to learn some respect. Yeah. There's a line here internally where she's like, kiss me, betrayed me. And I'm like, oh, yes, Judas language, Judas language, especially because that is what Jora did, right?

He led them right to Denaries, just as Judas led them all to Jesus. And, oh, yeah, for a bag of silver coins, too. Anyways, speaking of silver coins, uh, also he's like, I have a love you. I'm like, dude, love doesn't entitle you. to someone's presence. And the funniest part being, like, he doesn't even have a pardon. It's like, you have nothing. You did nothing and have nothing.

Congrats. And he's all like, I went down into the sewers. And I'm like, yeah, so did a bunch of other people. You don't see them acting like you right now. Yeah. It was a shitty situation in all, but still funny. after he leaves Danny's definitely conflicted

she's feeling guilty and Dario comments and was like you know you could have had him killed which I'm like oh that's so sweet babe that's actually very sweet that he's like

half of him is like you should have killed him but like the other half is also like you shouldn't feel so bad because you weren't that mean like you probably should have killed him because he's a prick and she's like

yeah yeah I don't think we should go have him killed after this I think that we should just let him be and she reflects and daydreams on his past and imagines him returning to his homeland and the trees and the meadows and the rocks that he's described of his childhood except like no one's going to have him back so yeah i i do love and he's like i don't know it's not too late we can still kill him we could love him what a doll uh what a doll rio uh anyways that

that sounded better of my head um yep eerie comments on how Dineries is trembling. Dineries responds that she is cold and I like that it's kind of a return to that motif of loneliness because the two are equated for her as established in her dragon dreams in the first book and running down that hall with a cold wind howling behind her threatening to be alone forever. That's there. Unable to sleep. Danny spends time with her handmade Erie. But her thoughts keep turning to Drogo and Dario and she wrestles with feelings of longing and loss. Danny takes a walk alone in the moonlight, contemplating the choices that she's made. She stands on the terrace and watches Marine sleeping, reflecting on her own solitude and the consequences

of her own actions. Masande joins her on the terrace, bringing her a book. She had been reading of children's stories and songs from the Seven Kingdoms. children's stories if truth be told too simple and fanciful to be true history all the heroes were tall and handsome and you could tell the traitors by their shifty eyes yet she loved them all the same last night she'd been reading of the three princesses in the red tower locked away by the king for the crime of being beautiful so this is jora's books from the wedding uh this is probably songs and stories of the seven kingdoms and like first of all we love a a fairy tale so like fun but also interesting that she's reading the fairy tale version of her own family's history right she's kind of rome taking the romanticized view uh after hearing the truth from barristin earlier and she wants escapeism um we're gonna see that clearly because this isn't the only choice she makes this evening just for a night though she wants to escape

it's also kind of sanitizing that history right and interesting choice choosing the maiden vault for this some like a couple little strings there like you have the blackfire idea with Diana then you have also Baylor locking them away why did he lock them away was it because they were beautiful

or was it for many reasons which you should listen to in our Patreon episode on the Maiden Vault that we discuss yeah and also she locks her dragons away later so it reminds me of that right locking them away trees in gold blood who knows and it also brings to

mind another red tower in the story, or at least a tower in some red mountains in Dorn, the tower of joy where a woman is locked away in it, quote unquote. So lots of fun in reading this little fairy tale makes me think of a couple things, but it is indeed a fairy tale version of her family's history. Yeah. A thought that was interesting of her. Good call. Yeah, it's kind of weird that she's just like, yeah, the children's story.

I'm like about your family getting locked up. Yeah. She wants to believe in her family being like the stories. It is like the stories. This is a bad story. Well, it is right now. That's meta, Eliana. That's fucking meta.

No, I mean, like, this is like the story. This is literally her family story. I guess Jora had knowledge too, but we hate him. So whatever. Oh, that's so sad because she was a kid when she got those books. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, he gave her children's books because she's a children, you fucking creep. But now she's a prettier children

She's a prettier children in high heels With a crown Oh my god Kill me Can you murder me a little Oh my gosh I love this parallel though to Leanna Yeah

Her too Her also prettier children So Another pretty child Jesus What is with this story It was the times Oh my God

Denarius thinks that she may have to have Jorah recalled to her or may be killed She watches Regal napping And Assyrian hunting in the distance Drogon perched on the pyramid Where the heartbeat once stood She thinks that they grow bolder every day So does Djora, I guess

It's not that cool And that one day they may not return No Embarrassing appears apologizing for disturbing her peace and offering her some more answers on her family he chose this moment of all the moments to do so and she asked if her father was truly mad

and says Viseries told her that this was a ploy by the usurper and bearson gives some like very diplomatic answers of like you know your father was charming and generous as well as a little mad and his reign started strongly but as it went on the lapses and generosity and charm began to be more frequent

Denarius decides like she can't hear all of it tonight that one day he must tell her all good and bad. He tells her you know, there is good in him and your other ancestors too and that one day he will tell her all.

Yeah. I love that right here you have that Ned energy right. We'll talk about your mother when I return because guess what? That right there is seriously what I 100% think is like no, goodbye. And you will die before they can talk, frankly.

Yeah, probably. But that's okay. There's Tyrion. He's not going to hold you back. He's going to be like, let me tell you everything. But he's not going to be a direct focal look, you know? Like, that's the sadder part is he just knows about it. Yeah, that's true.

He was young. It's less believable, I guess, coming from one of the usurper's dogs, you know? But whatever. Yeah. But also, like, you know, speaking about, we'll talk about what your mother would I return. And she's, like, all fixated on, like, oh, my God, like, my dad, though. Why was my dad like this? Girl, ask about your mom.

Well, she wasn't the king. Honestly, it would have been better if she were, probably. Not the internalized misogyny. Poor Raola. Yeah, does she even know her mom's name? It's questions that I have. George, will you tell her? God.

I'm joking. I know George knows. It's not like, it's not like. All the other characters he won't name, Princess of Dorn. I know. Anyways, De Nerey's kisses him on the cheek, sending him away and wondering if Rhaegar ever grew weary or Egan after his conquest. And this is just meant to rhyme a little with Do All Gods Feel So Lonely. Oh, yeah.

It's poetry. It's poetry. In motion. Oh, my God. She goes to sleep, taking Erie into bed with her. It says here, for the first time since the ship. But why did we quote this close? Just because I didn't want to write about it

But even as she shuddered in release And wound her fingers through her handmade's thick black hair She pretended it was Drogo holding her Only somehow his face kept turning into Dario's If I want Dario I need only say so She lay with Erie's legs and tangled in her own His eyes looked almost purple today Do you need to like long for like a Valerian to find?

Like, maybe the Targaryians are just like... It's in the blood. Like in a literal way. Oh, that was my other thought earlier. Um, in the blood by, from Hades. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

You know, because Greek, Trague shit. But, yeah. You know what? It's growing on me. I love a bunch of the other songs, like... I do, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Good. I hear a Hades team might be coming out, like, full release next month or something. I can't wait to play it on my PlayStation. I hear it's like, It's so different now, like, in a good way, like, from when... I haven't played it since, like, December. I hear it's pretty different, probably in a good way. Yeah.

So, I had a lot of issues getting my controller to behave. So, like, I just gave up. So can't wait to get it on, like, PlayStation or on Switch. Yeah, same, same. DeNaris's dreams are dark, and she wakes from half-remembered nightmares. Ooh, I kind of liked that. Okay, George, go off. She thinks about squeezing Erie's brown nipples.

Okay, George. But thinks she wants Drogo, or maybe she wants Dario, not Erie, whose kisses taste of duty. Oh, she is restless. Girl is so restless this chapter. She is looking for a release. We talked about Circe and Taina previously, and that dynamic of power, servitude, and is this right? Is it not? Probably not, right?

Like, I don't know. I don't know. Probably not, but... Probably not. Probably not, right. Doesn't seem right to me. All that magic in the world, and they couldn't think to, like, invent vibrators, you know? Right.

Or, like, an egg. Like, an egg for the vagina. Like, Drogon, Vesarian, Regal, get to work. Yeah. One of you make an egg. Oh, okay. But, yeah, Danny's doing anything to not think about everything. She's like, fairy tales, orgasms, what can I do?

I have a big choice to make. Feel that. You know, we've all been there, girl. We've all been there. Fairy tales, orgasms. You know, yeah. Yeah. Thank God.

Under that time, I almost lit my house on fire. Anyways. It was almost like Gretchen, you're the worst. That shit was going to be on fire. Danny looks down on Marines sleeping. The city sleeps lost in dreams of kinder days. And she watches someone leaving on a horse thinking maybe it's Jora and thinking, farewell, old bear, farewell, betrayer.

Aw. She was Denary's stormborn, the unburnt Calisi and Queen, mother of dragon, slayer of warlocks, breaker of chains, and there was no one in the world that she could trust. Oh. Big sad. Big sad. Yeah.

Missande stands at her elbow, having noticed her gone from her bed, and asks what she's looking at. Danny says she's looking at her city, but seeks a house with a red door. It says, but by night, all doors are black. She takes Missande by the hand and tells her to never lie to her, betray her, and Masante says that she never could. And, okay, weird take, does it mean, like, if all the doors are black? Does that mean, that John is her home? J.K., except, I mean, maybe not.

I don't know. Interesting. I don't know. Also, like, if De Neres is not the one, I guess, betraying or treasoning people, maybe Missonde does betray her, given all this, you know, because she does have family. there, speaking of blood. And I'm just saying, I don't know. It's also interesting to me that the language is like her kind of commanding Misande to not betray her.

And I get why it is because, you know, she's not really thinking about her words. You know, I would probably just say shit too when I'm emotional. But also, like, why not ask for it? Right. Again, some of this very interesting territory for Danny, what comes from being a ruler and what you ask of others to give to you. True. Oh, true.

Yeah, like what you just. the scene you just analyzed. Yeah, whether it's like your fingers, your sword, your body, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Loyalty. Yeah, all that shit. Loyalty.

Your life. True. Your ability to love. And when you start asking for those things, where's the line? Mm-hmm. As dawn breaks, Danny and Missande watch the sun rise together

and Danny reflects on the city and her decisions that she is about to announce. Get ready, everyone. Wow. In the morning, she gathers her captains and commanders in the garden and speaks of her frustrations. She acknowledges that she's brought death and ruined Slavers Bay, but she's done so to free people. Yeah, we have this whole exchange with many characters. There is nothing to stay for, said Brown Bedplum.

Your grace, the slavers brought their doom on themselves, said Darlenehoris. You have brought freedom as well, Miss Sonday pointed out. Freedom to starve? asked Danny sharply. Freedom to die? Am I a dragon or a harpy? Am I mad? Do I have the taint? A dragon.

Sir Berson said with certainty. Marine is not Westeros, your grace. But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city? He had no answer to that. Danny turned away from them. to gaze out over the city once again. My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings, and I need the same.

I will not let this city go the way of Astipur. I will not let the harpy of Yongkai chain up those I freed all over again. She turned back to look at their faces. I will not march. What will you do then, Colisi? Asked Vicaro. stay she said rule and be a queen and for the historians thus marked the first 11 year wait for this character's fate the kids may not know at the time so we have to tell them right that

after this line that was the last that you saw of denarius for 11 years that also i can totally see isn't that fucking nuts you know what's crazier i'm not going to say it I know what you're going to say. I'm not going to fucking say it. You all know what I'm going to fucking say. You know what I'm thinking right now, and I'm not going to say it. Okay. But a five-year gap would have gone hard as shit if he could have figured it out.

Yeah, I think, like, it was especially important for, like, Denarius' story was one of the ones where it was especially important. Sam's story. Bran. Bran. Aria was one where it was very important. Sonsa. I mean, aria's especially, for sure. Yeah. John, I mean, I think like John's, it would have been important, but like it,

the way that things like fell out and shook out like with his, it still was fine in terms of timing. Like, his could go either way. But yeah. It's so hard when you have these rich characters and these rich stories that keep unraveling to just put them on the shelf like that and move on and just show five years later and be able to pepper in what you really want to and really make it work. Like, I will say Robin Hobb does some really good time changing and it's only following mostly one POV character so that kind of is helpful when you have this many I totally get why it's not possible it doesn't make sense for like a quarter of the POVs and so it messes it up for the rest of them yeah definitely

I will say like like theon would have no skin left but like that would be fucking crazy though like that would be really bad for him to have been there for five years, like, bad times. I definitely understand it wouldn't have worked out. It would have worked. He just would have been tortured for five years. That just would suck. Yeah. He probably wouldn't have lasted that long, is all I'm saying.

Like, he's like half death row. I know, right? It's not good. I guess he struggled especially with, like, Circe's stuff is part of it. Yeah, there's absolutely no way. Yeah. But I don't know. Could have been fun.

Yeah, the old folks, as we like to call them, you know, the ones that are our age, they're the issues here. Yeah, yeah, it's so hard. Like, when everything's the same, you know, once you're old, no, I'm joking. But it is easier, like, in terms of, you know, a five-year gap, like, between whoever it was five years ago and me five years into the future, like, when you're an adult, like, it's not as jarring as, like, Arias a femme fatal now, and she's, like, the difference between like 11 and 16 is a much bigger difference between me five years ago and probably

whoever I'll be in five years. Whoever I'll be in five minutes, dude. For real. It's like the same. It's the same. It's the same. It's the same. I guess regarding this scene, everything's kind of leading up to you can see how she builds to

wanting to stay here. But also like, she's feeling a lot of self-distance. out right now, and I get that girl, but... Jesus. I mean, I have mixed feelings about, like, some of this in terms of... I don't like when people say, you know, she stays in Marine, and that shows she's a good queen because she's trying to practice for the Seven Kingdoms. I'm like, it's still people.

You're not fucking practicing, you know? Like, it's not, you can't, like, treat, like, one lesser than the other. It's still a whole... It's not a musical. Right. It's still, like, a civilization and stuff, and it feels like, you know, I don't know that they or George mean it to be like, like, you know, it's not. that and these are not real people. This is a fake story. But, you know, it's giving a little, like, it's not real when they're people of color. But, um, and I don't know that Denary's intense that either. I think this is just how she phrases it here. I don't think she sees it as practice at all, but yeah. She cares deeply about everything that's happening here. Well, and it also makes me think a little bit like, in the corporate world, I've seen plants where, like, you lose a bunch of people that worked.

there and shit goes down and the whole place is like you have 800 million big bosses running around all of a sudden saying well now we're going to do this and we're going to do this and blah blah blah blah and then like you pull out the big bosses too soon but no structure like has been built there's been no one added to the roster to help make up for that loss that you've already experienced and then they don't understand why it doesn't work and yeah i mean it all runs back for Denarius, like, in a way, the pyramid, right? Like, her pyramid's going to crash down on itself if she doesn't put the right people into place.

That's true. The pyramids, there's like a symbol almost. It reminds me of that. I don't know. So I'm hoping. Yeah. I don't know if she's going to, exactly, you have to have the best ones on the bottom holding up the others.

Yeah. Also, also, side note, everyone, the food pyramid hasn't been debunked as a. Oh, my gosh. Way to structure your diet. It's going to be debunked when I eat it in a minute. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's what's going to cause the pyramid to crumble. Get ready.

Yeah, I just feel that's the bigger takeaway for me is that I'm rereading this chapter especially. Like, she actually takes that in and realizes, oh, shit, what I did to that city, I can't do to this city. I need them to be able to have their own legs and walk on them, right? Yeah. We've just changed their entire life and shaken it up in extreme ways. And now we need to give them something to build back better. Yeah. Honestly, like, I actually wonder, would the story change at all if she'd stayed there for five versus five years versus the amount of time that elapses?

Because, I mean, if you do something and something so big like this, it's got to be a thing where it's like a 20, 30 year thing, you know, like that's... Yeah, and that in Parks and Iraq with the merger with Eagleton. going to say, I was actually literally going to say parks and rec. And like that, that was real. That's real. Like, I remember, you know, like the promised zones effort of like place-based approaches. Like, they were like, yeah, this is a 20-year plan. I think there's just so much that like big transitions in general, you can think they'll happen. But they, they do take time. Things take time to change. Yeah. Change can't happen overnight, unfortunately, like the good old days, you know?

I mean, like, some of the changes happen overnight, but to make it stick, you got to be there and fucking commit. And that's what De Neri's learns here. Yeah, if she decides to commit. Yeah. But not to Cleon. No. We don't commit there.

Not like Taylor and Travis. Oh, my God. If you want to listen to our football podcast where we don't talk about Taylor Swift. Oh, that would be so funny. we also don't talk about Travis Listen to Girls Gone Cannon What you're doing right now, good job Yeah

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Holy shit. Wow. I know, and then it's 10 apps, and then we're done until Tyrion. Dang, that's actually like really sad, but also that 10th episode, like that 10th chapter's so good. We're going to be shitting everywhere. Oh, that too. Oh, my God.

That's, does that connect to this chapter? Does like every single one of her last chapters of books from here on now just end with shit? Something to think about. She's going to be in another shitty situation soon. We'll see you in a couple weeks to discuss more shit in Deneres' plot. Yeah. I've been one of your hosts, Quillard. Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Aliana.

You can talk about the shit a little more if you want to be. Yeah, I'll shoot the shit. Oh, my God. What if they did that? What if they made like a shit canon? Goodbye. Goodbye.