Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 279 — AGOT Tyrion VII featuring Reuben

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

It's here, the new show, Men Gone Canon. Thank you to Reuben (aka @liesandperfidy) for letting us guest to break down Tyrion and the myth that is Tywin Lannister. A man whose reputation precedes him, but is the Lion Lord's reputation truly deserved? Attend the 4th Street Fantasy Convention https://4thstreetfantasy.com/ Where to find Reuben Bluesky - https://bsky.app/profile/liesandperfidy.bsky.social Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon reads, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 279, Tyrion 7 in a Game of Thrones featuring, oh my God, this is so exciting. Our friend Rubin lies imperfecty. Hello, I am delighted to be here after many years of looking at social media going, did I say that? Did Chloe say that? Whose candle was that? Oh, yeah. Actually, that is confusing. I did get confused there for a while as, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, everything's thrown off. I'm another one of your host, Eliana.

I'm sorry, I can't not. I don't think I even said it. It's my fault. It'll be bad luck if we don't. Oh my God. Aliana, it's my fault. I didn't say it.

It's because we're a different podcast now. We're men gone canon now. You've given men's changing. You've given men rights and it fucked up the whole episode within like 45 seconds. Oh my God. Somebody reversed the timeline. I'm one of your host, Chloe. And I'm another one of your hosts,

Eliana. And this is men gone canon. Uh, we're happy to be. be here and to be guesting for Rubin. Yeah. Thanks for coming on my podcast.

Yes. That's legally binding. That's legally binding. It's yours now. Yeah. Rubin is a dear, dear friend who goes way back to the Twitter minds and the old days.

And boy, did we mine. It was grim. The deep minds under Castorly Rock, there be all kinds of weird shit and dream sequences. Yeah, Ace Woff Twitter dream sequences is real. It's really fucked up to think

like it was a decade ago, like a fever dream. It's exciting though. It's like a, it feels like a fever dream. Wait a second. Hey, I did really good at that one. Wow. Wow. Yeah, it's freaking great to have you though. You know, some of our

fans and listeners might see some crossover from an episode on NottaCast in A Storm of Swords, an Aria episode, if I am correct. I can unfortunately promise like way less obscure communist guerrilla history on this one. It's less topical, but yeah, no, that was so... Not with that attitude. That's true. What can I tell you? It's a history of losing a lot.

But yeah, no, I had so much fun with that that I thought I, I, I thought I, I, do it again on a different podcast only like four years later or whatever. Well, and you said something crazy. I learned something that I don't know if I remembered. And it might not be your fault because like sometimes things about authors that I just don't read myself or care about. Like it's just like tunnel vision. But you even had a little ditty yourself in covering some Joe Abercrombie. And a couple of my friends really rave about those novels. Yeah. At the time I was on not a cast, I was trying to get. a Joe Abercrombie reread podcast started the First Law trilogy and subsequent books.

However, as we were launching that, my co-host got custody of her stepdaughter and got really busy. That's all going great. We played Dungeons and Dragons. Everyone's happened a good time, but there was just not enough time to reread the first of all. Yeah. But hey, if you enjoy Ace Woff, but you're like, kind of wish everyone in this was like 10 to 80% of a shitty thing. your person. Have you considered Joe Abercromb?

Interesting. I hear really good things about it. When you're in your Tyrion era. Yeah. Yeah, really good. One of our really dear friends, the Hedge Knight, I think, speaks pretty positively about Joe Abercrombie. I'm excited to read it at some point. Yeah. It's definitely actually on my list. There are things that I'm like, that's just not on my list. But that one is. Joe is one of, along with our good friend George, Joe Abercrombie is one of the five authors that exist on Reddit so you will not stop being recommended Joe Abercrombie.

Especially now that you've said it, it's over for me. I'm going to see it everywhere. Probably. Hiped. That's what I got for my ignorance before. Well, still fun. So fun. It takes dedication too to have to like try to do it solo then.

It's a lot. So I really respect it. I think of like my roommate did all these freaking episodes during COVID on his own. And I'm like, who are you talking to? Yourself? Good for you. and they were good. They were actually good. I don't know if I could do it, so I respect that. It really makes you believe in your ability to, like, filibuster.

That's what I learned from the minnesota. I was like, I think I could filibuster. Yeah. Yeah. Yours were pretty good, too. I respect that they were shorter, though. I see the problem is what I'm saying. It's me and you together.

Honestly, I feel as if I could. I talk to myself a lot already, so I feel as if I could record some solo podcasts, but I can't live. into solo podcasts. I tune them out if it's not a conversation. So I think just the hypocrisy of the whole endeavor would undermine me immediately. So instead, as I said earlier, I'm happy to guest on other people's podcasts, especially a great podcast like this one. Seriously, as podcasts are an audio medium, listeners could not see the big dumbass grin that immediately spread on my face when Chloe started doing the intro. It was like, oh, I'm here for it. I get to,

The magic is happening. Well, you got to see it twice, nonetheless. That's true. Yeah. You got to see me fuck it up too, which actually happens more often than everyone at home thinks. So, actually pretty often. Some people do know, because I'll put it in bloopers, because I think it's cute. Yeah, over on our Discord. Yeah.

Well, Rubin, you were telling us a little before this about one of your newer endeavors, not just your Joe Abercrombie podcast. a Fourth Street Fantasy Convention in Minneapolis that you're a programming head for? Yes, hello. Are you listening to this from the Minneapolis area? Would you like to be in the Minneapolis area around June 16th to 19th? Fourth Street Fantasy Convention, it's a small but extremely it is a high density of really cool guests and attendees and panelists.

I've been going for like, God, 12 years now, counting the two years that were online because of COVID. And at some point, like, I think three years ago, I basically stood still long enough that some of the board were like, hey, that guy looks competent. And then, like, I thought they were pointing at someone else. But yeah, anyway, so I've been doing the programming now for a couple years. It is my pitch is that it is a great place to overthink books with spaceships and dragons on the cover. This year's program, our draft will be out shortly after this podcast is released. But if you go to the website, which I'm sure will be available, you can see previous programs. I will say that as part of an ongoing program of spotlighting Minnesota authors,

this year marks the 20th anniversary of the release of a little book called The Lies of Luck. Lamora. So we're going to put Scott Lynch up on a stage and throw tomatoes and eggplants at him and talk to him about his book, which impacted my brain like a fucking meteor in 2006. I can do math. And has just been launched

there ever since. And we'll have, yeah, a lot of other great panelists, a lot of other great topics. And it's just like it's a great place to be a writer, to be a reader, to be like just kind of a weird creature flitting in between thinking about dragons and shit. and I have had nothing but a delightful time even since the point where they made me actually

do work there. So yeah, Minneapolis, June 16th through 19th, check us out. That's my load. And the URL for this will be in the description of this episode. So yeah, be sure to check it out. Thank you. You got to get it ready for that. It's real now.

I love it. Glad we're putting the pressure on. Get it done. Come on. Deadlines. It's important. And you know what? It is really overdue.

Anyway. No, that's awesome. A fan convention too. And like, we were talking before, a lot of stuff died in COVID. That was like that of like that nice medium size, smaller size convention too. Like not needing to be hundreds of thousands of people.

Yeah, like something in the decent size, but enough to where you're like able to enjoy yourself, but not too much. All that stuff died in COVID. So it's amazing that this is persistent. and with such a strong backing and with tons of fans and people that believe in it that actually are putting it on, that's amazing. Yeah, no, our board has done heroic work. And really, like, I should mention, like, the presence of fascist paramilitaries in Minneapolis over the past few months has been an extra note of pressure.

And just, like, our board and our Minneapolis locals have done a lot of work in terms of just, like, making sure we make things as safe as we can. and we communicate to people as much as we can about what they need to know. Oh, by the way, just for people who are thinking about it, we do require a negative COVID test for attendance. I believe our masking policy is in consideration for this year, but in past years we have asked people to mask. I think we might be relaxing it for panelists. So, yeah, we're trying to make it, like,

not just a great place to talk about some driving shit, but a safe one. Wonderful. Can't wait to hear how it goes. I think that your programming will be great this year. Don't throw the tomato too hard. You know, go easy on him. Come on. We're so excited to have you. We're going to get into some housekeeping really quickly.

Just jot through it. We're not going to cover emails this time. We did get some. Thank you. Patreon episode this month is. What if I get this right on the first go? This would be crazy, Eliana. This would be fucking crazy.

Patreon episode 92. Mocking Jay, Part 2A, Act 2. of salt from the Hunger Games trilogy by Suzanne Collins. Yeah, that was it. That's correct. That's exactly what it is. Thank you. In my hands, I hold the photo of the girl who will be advancing on to become the next

tribute. I was like, are we sending you in? Oh, that too, maybe. I don't know. Going back to the arena. But we are. We're going back to the arena because part 2A ends-ish, part 2B-ish, with going back to the arena in the game.

Capital. Can't wait to get there. You should read the books. Read the books if you haven't. They're so fun. If you like the movies and you just want to tune in and tune in and know what you're missing, then do it. That's fun too. I get that. We could be like your wiki but cuter. That's fun. That's great. Yeah. It could be great. So come listen. Patreon.com slash girls gone canon. You have to be in the stranger tier or above and you will get bonus episodes every month. every single month we put one out we are doing mocking Jay right now though so that said

that is the bonus episode you're getting that's it yeah that's probably gonna be all we do for a while but we're gonna do it we're gonna kill it yeah that's exciting we're gonna finish it we might have to like pause in November or like reassess what we're doing in November

because of course we have our other passion project Gossip Girl's Gone Canon Gossip Girls Gone Canon So we'll see we'll see we'll figure it out We got time. We got time. That's like a Q4 problem. All right.

And we're in Q2, 26. All right. Let's talk about the Discord. If you are in the Thunder tier in above, $10 an up tier of our Patreon, you get access to our Discord, which has fun and games. The games are the Hunger Games. And we also do brunch slash happy hour once a month, Brappy hour this month, I believe it's on May 23rd, Sunday, Sunday, Saturday.

It's May 23rd though. Yes. Honestly impressive that I had that off the top of my head. And 2 p.m. this time. 2 p.m. ET. 2 p.m. ET. We keep moving it around. And you know why?

Because we can. But other things you get access to in the Discord, you get fun channels with great discussion from like a lot of our really smart patrons. They have like awesome analysis and reactions and discussions as well as. I need to upload this if you are following our Hunger Games coverage or you just happen to have ever heard it on social media. I need to upload because I removed it because I was like, this doesn't make any sense. Why did I try to half sing along to the hanging tree with Chloe because they only know half the fucking words. And so that will go into bloopers because you can just listen to Chloe beautifully sing it in the episode. And then you can have me being like, I don't actually know all the words of this. And then again, half singing the words. and everything else. There's a bunch of other bloopers in there as well that I need to upload. God, there is like decades of bloopers already.

So please get in there and listen. We love them. They are fun. The things that don't make it to the public are fun. And I've been thinking about a special thing for patrons. I've been thinking about a special little thing for patrons along that line with some Hunger Games music. So you never know what could happen if you're a patron.

You just never know. Yeah. Yeah. You could hear Chloe. That actually is in the episode, though, learning to how to, whistle. It's like a beautiful moment we all share. Also times...

It does not happen. No, it did. No, I think it did. In my opinion, what I heard on my end was a whistle. That was real. I felt it and heard it in everywhere that one can't. I can't whistle either. Shut out.

No one can, right? There's no way to know if you can. It's not real. Not real. Fake news. So there's that. There's also other things. of, it's just a fun time

for me especially. So, anyway, let's, let's move on. Let's move on. Lightning round, okay, this is so exciting. This is crazy. Rubin, do you feel nervous a little bit? Just a little bit? I'm still coasting off the high of, uh, every time I hear

the phrase brappy hour, um, I think it was out of off the camera, don't say it. But like, I do a little like gun finger to myself and go brop, brawrap, braw. So, um, yeah. So I got to, I got to, experience that live. Please don't encourage her behavior.

It's like I've been shot. That's good, good. So for those at home listening, this is going to be our lightning round for what you missed between Tyrion 6 and Tyrion 7 in a Game of Thrones starting off with

a little trio. Eddard 11, Sansa 3, and Eddard 12. Peep-a-p-poo! Eddard charges Lord Barrick on Darien with defending the innocent and protecting the weak and those that may need it, even though Sansa wonders, why didn't he charge Sir Loris with that instead? After Ned tells her and Aria they're going home from court, he makes a pit stop and lets

Circe know what he knows. I don't remember this song as well. Please remind me. Oh, really, I'm just referencing Hamilton very slightly in the document because it's it's capitalized. So let's let him know what we know. Burr, Burr,

burr, but, uh, it is when they accuse Hamilton of, uh, stealing money, you know,

from, from the bank and being like, you stole all this money and it was kind of weird. And there were all these checks that you cash that weren't yours or sent and blah bra bra. And then he's like, no, you idiots.

I'm cheating on my wife and being blackmailed. Don't you know? Yeah, because I was like, I thought he was only doing that. God. It's literally called what he knows. Yeah,

Exactly. He's like, how dare you? And now I'm going to publish a bunch of stuff in the paper about it for everyone to read. Is that the number with the heavily autotune, you ever seen somebody ruin their own life? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't listened to Hamilton. That's a one, but it's near that one.

Yeah, I haven't listened to Hamilton a very long time, but that that auto tune line is in my brain on repeat for I'm sure good reasons. I do love that one. I do love that one. Well, different story. Denaries 5. Vaseres is crowned. Sad. You ever see someone ruin his own life?

Vaseres did that. His own life. Or the next. Also entered 13. After King Robert is injured, Ned looks to Littlefinger for support. Sad face emoji.

Ruined his own life. His poor wife. No, for real. Yeah. John 6. John gets a job and maybe doesn't like it while Ghost gets a jaw. A human jaw, to be sure. A word. Word. Eddard 14, Aria 4, and Sonsa 4. Eddard is arrested by the City Watch. I'm sorry. I'm just like, why are I calling him by his Christian name, Eddard? That's my friend Ned. He's arrested by the City Watch. She'llanister guardsmen disrupt Aria's dancing lesson, but she gets away. Sonsa, however, is in house arrest, just like Chloe, where she's eventually summoned to send

word of her father's treason to her relatives. John 7. Two of Benchon's companions are found dead, and maybe not from natural causes. At Castle Black, John learns of his father's treason, and later, John kills a white, saving Gior. learning of his father's treason is like it's like the old thing about the Holy Roman Empire where it's like three words, three lies. Like not your dad,

not a traitor. And then wait, there's another one of that coming. Another's coming for him with that. Of his actual father. Whoa, and maybe a traitor. Whoa.

Brand six. O'Sha tells Bran his brother Rob, who has now raised the banners, is marching the wrong way. De Nere's 6, an attempt is made on Deney's life, and Drogo vows to take the seven kingdoms. Catlin 8. Catlin supports Rob's war plans in public, but in private she tells him that he must win, or they will die. That's a pretty good line.

Rob goes south, ready to keep Tywin's troops busy. And that brings us to Tyrion 7. At the end of the crossroads, we meet the man, the myth, the pathetic legend, Tywin Lannister. With the young wolf on the move, Tywin needs men, and thankfully, Tyrion's brought some home to daddy. Daddy. I got grossed up with some dead. Not righteous gemstones. They are the same.

They are the same. Before we jump right in, I have to say, like, literally moments before we got on this call, I was thinking, it's so fun. We get to see Tywin die sometime, Eliana, together. That's right, we do. Like, that's so fun. Girls do get to have fun. We do.

I was just like, but we're men gone canon. That's what the pause was. I was like, are we girls now? Like, what's going on? What am I? I'm having like an identity crisis. Because of like, I don't know. And then we're here.

It's the last POV. Who are we going to be? I don't fucking know. Well, we start with a girl. Shella, a daughter of Cheek of the Black Years, had gone ahead to scout. And it was she who brought back word of the army. at the crossroads.

By their fires, I call them 20,000 strong, she said. Their banners are red with a golden lion. Your father? Brun asked. Or my brother, Jamie, Tyrion said. We shall know soon enough. So I actually, in this moment,

Chella is also, as we see, looking at how many troops there are. And I thought this was really interesting after analyzing the Dineries chapters. because Chella has this knowledge, right, as a woman, and we saw the way that De Nerees is learning that through her various mentors, and it's not something that's, like, this isn't a skill you just have, right?

It's something that you learn and that you're taught. So I thought that was really interesting, but also it stood out to me that part of the way that they're estimating how many troops there are is based off of the number of fires that they see lit, and I was just thinking, like, you know, about the long night, of course. and that it could be really difficult to estimate the size of an undead army's host,

or the hosts of the others in general, right? Because they would not be lighting fires, and also, of course, unlike other hosts or troops, like they, there's kind of tends to grow as yours dwindles, so kind of shitty. I literally just had this thought. Shake to me reads, we don't really know, but it reads as a masculine name. Like, it's definitely a male-coded name to me. So like, it's not like the black ears are necessarily matrilineal or matriarchal. Cella is just like, she's in charge.

She inherited the position by presumably being able to count to 20,000, which made her stand out. Yeah. But also, like, what I'm hearing is she's like Reneira. No? Well, maybe a little, because, like, from what I've seen, like, a little Danny stuff going on there also. Historically in the veil. Like in general, and it's interesting that it holds for the mountain clans. We do see a lot of, like, women leaders.

Like, of course, we had Jane Eyre and Lull. And then, of course, during the conquest, Agen's conquest, I believe, there was a, like, rebellion in the fingers. And they actually put a queen up there for a moment. Yeah. So I was like, it's interesting. It's interesting what's up there. There's something happening in the veil with that. and also something with like

Sonsa being there. Anyways, First Men descendant Sonsa Stark. Tyrion surveys his small but growing force of nearly 300 stone crows, moon brothers, black ears, and burn men. The other clans are being raised by Gunthor

son of Gern. Such a fun name. Very like, Gunthor, stun of thorn. That is an airbrushed van name. Like that name is hair metal, like 80s Like you just hear like the electric guitar

And the tongues out anyways Tyrion begins to wonder Is Gunther Is he like their commander Or captive of the Valefolk Like he thinks he's in charge But then he's like I don't know maybe I'm not in charge Who knows? Maybe he's a little bit of fun

When I think of Gunthor I think of like Gunther the like penguin from Adventure Time. And that's what I have for you. Tyrion. Tyrion, of course, has tied together this fighting force out of the Mountain Clans. And it's seen as less legitimate in the eyes of, like, the other Westerosi forces. And everyone's like, what the fuck is going on here when he shows up in the lanister camps?

Tie-wind those unfazed, we'll get to that. Of course, like, these people, they're clearly, like, very scary. That's why Catlin and the Northmen, as they were going through, were all worried about, like, oh, are we going to get killed? And Tyrion was as well, they're very vicious. But they are less rooted in knighthood, and it makes me think of Dineris' troops, right? She's done a lot of melting of very different, disparate groups of people,

and she's going to come to Westerners for them, probably going to meld a few more forces as well, right? And her troops are very much also considered less legitimate in many ways by the Westrosi. But, like, also, I mean, let's be real. Like, we've seen them fight. They're fucking scary. But, I don't know, Dora's all, like...

But we got armor, and I'm like, also, like, shut the fuck up. Anyways. Tyrion... Please. Tyrion is also, like, in this, as you called out, like, in big of space. He's like, am I commander or am I captive? Like, both? It's kind of sexy.

I don't know. But also, like, again, this is a mirror to Denary's storyline in this very... moment in this very moment in like a Game of Thrones, right? Because she's in that space of being both a commander, but she is definitely a captive at this moment, right? She's making the best of what she can and charming the people that she's with. And I mean, arguably even Arias and Johns, but I think you all have more thoughts on that.

But the way that Tyrion is here, like maybe you can also think of it as like the cage that is leadership. And then also it's just a mysterious, it's a mysterious space that he's in of like how being in that position of leading traps you the crown

is a sword yeah we're gonna see over this chapter and the next couple Tyrion sort of escape that cage by virtue of just binding the remaining mountain clansmen into his own power structure

just subsuming them into like being kind of auxiliary troops basically for House Lannister and the crown as represented by House Lannister. So it's like, they're kind of in their own leadership cage where they've committed the fate of their clans to what turns out to be like a very small piece of this gigantic seven, you know, kingdoms wide war.

I feel like there's something in there that could like play into the stuff in Crusader Kings, but I've never played it. So can someone tell me like how the Mountain Clans function in Crusader Kings? They are in there Depending on what year you're playing I haven't played often in the veil in CK3 though You still think a lot in CK2 though

Yeah, maybe I have shut I feel like it wasn't as exciting Well, CK3 took a while anyways What I was going to add to this Don't get me started I played a lot of CK3 this week I was Lord Hayford I made my own Lord Hayford

It was a blast. Anyways, during Egan 5. Anyways, there's something great, too, in like the last chapter right before this is Catalan, right? Where she, too, is like, am I commander or am I captive, right? Oh, true.

I am subservient now to my son. My son is calling the banners. They're telling me go to Winterfell, and I'm staking, no, I go to my home, to River Run, to my father who's dying. And kind of then those same bonds bring us here, right with the idea of like a father who could be fallible who could die right he could die there

is a chance that taiwin could die someday uh that's a loose connection that's not really a real connection anyways but you also have a similarity there with kind of what you were talking about and like that commander captive tywin actually does walk that line very often and you have those same concepts coming in from little fingers through our machiavellian characters uh uh oh i hope i said that with all of the disdain in the world. But like you have these characters that show that the balance can be flipped ever so swiftly, ever so lightly just with a tap. Even Bolton, right?

Like look at Ruth Bolton. Same thing. He has that same thing of like they walk this fine line of just being able to diplomatically move things in a certain direction. Yeah. And it could go very badly for them belly up if they don't move it in the right direction. But somehow they keep betting and they keep winning. So that's all Tyrion knows.

he doesn't know real strategy because they don't either. His father doesn't really know. Like his father just plays Waldrefray, but with more money, with a better cosplay. Less children to split it between. In fact, not enough children to split it between, but... Yeah. And more poop. Lots of poop.

Tyrion decides to ride alone to greet his family's army, but Ulf, son of Umar, objects, saying, it is best for Tyrion, son of Tywin, not for all of us. Shaga agrees. He does not like it and insists on going with the boy man. Threatening mutilation if Tyrion lies. We're afraid that Tyrion knows well. I mean, who hasn't been threatened with a little bodily mutilation every now and then for fun? He's used to it.

Yeah. It's kind of sad. Tyrion gives his word and jokes that he thought that they'd become friends and then reaches a compromise. Chella, daughter of Jake, Shaga. Khan, son of Korot, Ulf, and Timit, son of Timit de Chalameh, will accompany him as an honor guard while the rest remain behind. He rides off once, expecting them either to follow or be left. Either way suits him, he cannot stand sitting among the clans listening to endless argument, where every voice is heard in counsel. Even the women!

No wonder they haven't taken the veil, he thinks. They are too busy debating about it. man gone canon it's man gone canon time do we have a jingle now that we're man gone can't I just be jingling these days I don't know what's going on you know it's so corporate coded though

this whole chapter is very corporate coded like we'll talk a little more about it we'll get into it but I'm like okay Tywin executive shouldn't be got yourself there though interesting failed your way up buddy so much corporate corporate like fucking, oh, all they do is talk about it in council.

That's real. Sometimes I sit in meetings and I'm like, can we just do something? Can y'all just do it? Then that's because I'm a fire sign, to be fair. But I'm like, can we not think about it? We've thought about it for a few months. Should we just do it now? What if we just did it now?

I was wondering, actually, while listening to the last episode, talking about the cultural parallels between the Mountain Clans and the free folk, I definitely get the impression that whether this is something George set up originally or kind of reverse gardened himself into, which I personally think a lot of stuff is that way that he's like, oh, you know, this would make sense. I'm going to pretend I meant it. That like the mountain clans are remnants of the first men culture and the veil before that were not like totally expunged or assumed by the Andals. It kind of makes sense for them to have a lot of these things in common, such as like these weird ideas about like, women having rights, which like the rest of West Rose is just completely baffled by. I love that, especially because when you look back at like, I mean, even the original Brotherhood of the Wing Knights, right?

You have like all these people that are showing up at the new one and then all of these houses way back when, back in the day in a little battle called the Battle of the Seven Stars. I know someone who wrote an essay about this this one time, sorry? like a decade ago. Do you remember writing essays, guys? I don't remember writing emails. Oh, my God. I wrote this little essay about how like the Battle of Seven Stars

kind of like parallels the current plot in the veil with the tourney of the wing knights and what houses that were first men versus what houses were Andal and like what the original commanders during that war were. And of the first men, you had like a stronger first men grouping. You had

King Robar Royce, Ursula Uplift, Lord Redford, and Sir Jamie Corbrey against Sir Artis Aaron, Lord Ruthermont, Sir Lucy and Templeton. And in the current current, like in the battle what's to come in Tewa, which is just a fun

battle on stage, you have House Royce, House Redford, house Uplift, House Hunter, House Belmore, House Coldwater, and House Shet, that are first men descendant. and then your Andles are Grafton, Corbrey, Ruthermont, Templeton, and Aaron, which are pretty a similar listing. But it also, like, pulls out the errands, this ain't their veil.

Right. It's not their veil. It's not. Like, I mean, it is by whatever rights that they took it, but it's just interesting because it's like, this veil belonged to someone else a long time ago. And it comes back to, like, what you guys are saying about the north, right? That, like, we have similar kind of idea in some aspect. Eliana keeps bringing up the long night every day of her life.

And today she did it within like her first thing that she sat on the podcast. Congratulations, Aliana. I didn't say anything about it then, but I want to call it out now because I was like, I knew that bitch was going to go there with a long night. I knew she was about to say something about the long night. But like with the long night, you think of it simply like, what was the wall keeping out? If it's keeping the people out, did we just lock them on the other side with it and decide

they can't have our resources? Yeah. That's why we build the wall. build the wall to keep us free. It's from Hadesstone. Yeah. That one I know. Amen, sister.

Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Brother. The wall. It's like that. That's how it sounds. Keep us free. Yeah.

But so there's something in there. It's not theirs. Clearly, it's, and it seems these might be people that are descended from the first men. Like, there's a lot of them still around. Some of them just assimilated. Some of them want their land back, bro. Yeah.

Give them their land back. Speaking of Haiti sound and also like the my children, my children of the forest. I've heard about them. I've heard about them. I don't think they're real. I think they're enough. But, yeah. It's messed up.

No, there's definitely parallels there. That's interesting. And that it's been going on a long time. Something's happening. I don't know what's going to happen. I do want to know what's going to happen. Man, that's so scripted. I'm just always like, I don't know what's going to happen.

Of course I fucking want to know what's going to happen in the mail. I want to know what's going to happen in everything. I think it's like boring, I guess, now to say it, but like I can't help it. We all want to know. I'm just saying what we're all thinking. I'm just saying what we're all thinking. Speaking of the long night. Get out.

You have to leave this podcast. No, okay. I'm sorry. This is why we're trying to give you the podcast rebate. I run out of things to say other than the long night. And I want to know about this. thing. And I want to know about the long night, but I kind of feel like this thing that Tyrion is discussing of everyone's just like debating, right? They're all just talking and trying to like discuss what should be due and not actually doing something. That internal struggle feels

a lot like what we're going to see in terms of people stalling instead of doing something about the long night because, you know, what is, you know, it's good. It's good that people get to have a voice, right? And discuss the thing. and have an opinion and weigh in, but also there's a balance, right? Between that and action. The zombies? Yeah. Like the zombies on your door?

Like, you have to choose. Yeah. All must choose. Yeah. And by that point, like, this is not just a peculiarity of the Mountain Clans, like, as much as Tyrion thinks so, like, in two chapters when the Lannisters get fucking owned by Rob Stark, when he just, like, pulls down their pants on the battlefield, we see, you know, Tywin's latest corporate meeting.

And it is just a bunch of guys sitting around going, what now? Until he just kicks them all out and has his own private tantrum. Like, everyone is like this. This is just a meeting. This is not the mountain clans. This is just a bunch of stakeholders who all think they should be in charge. They don't actually want to be.

Yeah. It's like bedbugs. If you got one, you got thousands. Project managers. Maybe that's not right. Sorry to call you guys Bedbugs Mountain Clans. I didn't mean it. Not sorry to apologize to you.

Wow. I would never apologize for them either. Yeah, that's crazy to think about like, they won't have time for that diplomatic discussion. Yeah, the long fucking night. They won't have that time, though. They won't. No.

So, Tyrion better get it together himself because he likes to talk too. He's sitting here like, they just like to talk all day long. No wonder they. never took the veil. Bitch, what have you done? Sit down. Yeah. You like to talk. All he does is talk. Everyone should have a podcast, I guess. Tyrion could do a solo podcast with full confidence. He wouldn't even talk about it. He'd be like, he wouldn't even edit it. He wouldn't even do any, like, dynamics auditing to it. He'd just like look at it and he'd go, good enough, upload. It would get like top page on Spotify every day.

I think he would do great. I do have to hand it to Tyrion. He would be a good podcaster. Yeah. Tyrion opening the book in season 8 It's called man-god kings Oh my god That's how the whole story's gonna end That's a meme That's what's gonna be on the last page

Of a dream of spring I'm gonna cry Okay, okay I'm gonna cry Look the stone crows ride together Chella and Ulf stay really close The Moon Brothers and the Black ears are pretty strongly bound So we get some alliances building here To Met, though, rides alone.

He rides alone. Every clan in the mountains of the moon fear the burned men, it turns out. The burned men are said to mortify their flesh with fire to prove their courage and present roasted babies at their feast. That might be a rumor. The other burned men fear Timet because he put his own left eye out with a hot knife, a white hot knife. Ooh, Weirwood. When he reached manhood, usually they only cut a finger or an ear. Interesting, coming back to cutting off a finger.

Yeah, or like a nipple. Fucked up. Or a nipple. Oh, unsolied, hashtag. The ears only if you're kind of crazy. The leadership structure of the mountain clans is like, or the black ears promote someone for like logistical capabilities and skills, and the burn men simply choose their craziest ass white boy and put in charge.

true. We don't know about the rest. It seems like the stone crows might have kind of like a size-based leadership system. Ah. Which, yeah, fair enough. Interesting. Yeah, like, I think Shaga just suplexed everyone until they put him in charge. Yeah, it's like if we put Kronk in charge, maybe.

But I, I don't know. There's something about the way that they're characterized, especially because this is a first book. It just feels very, like, old George R. Martin's celebrating right as he leans into, like, all. this body horror stuff and the way that he's characterizing it. It feels like a lot of similar to the short stories that we had been reading. Yeah. I missed them, but I also am having a lot of fun doing The Hunger Games, so like I don't, whatever. Yeah, we love war. So Timit's fellow burn men named him a red hand, which is basically some sort of war chief, which made Tyrion ask brawn, I wonder what their king burned off. And brawn jokingly motions to his cock.

But even brawn keeps a respectful tongue about timid. Wow, even brawn. Even the brawn. Okay, I'm going to say a couple crazy things. So everybody get, you know, in the zone where they're going to be ready for crazy things. Putting on my metaphorical tinfoil hat. This one's not new. Everyone knows this one. This is the jumping point. So like, get ready. This is the beginning of the crazy things.

This is just to ease us in a little. So, like, burned men, dragons, men who survived nettles and sheep stealer. Right? Right. Like, that's like, and who worshipped her. Like, we all know that. There said there was a witch. Brab-b-b-b-bh.

We've all pieced together. Was it nettles? Was it not? We'll never know. Until blood and fire comes out. Anyway. But, Timet, taking out his own eye. with a white-hot blade.

Was he... Is he a seer? Was he... Was he, like, sear? Hashtag? Was he, like, some sort of sear in the veil? A moon sear? What do we call it?

Like, Belor, Valerian, sacrifice throughout this entire novel and what it means, like the fact that this is coming right when Vissaris dies and before Deneerian. like right after like uh cal drogo's going to promise the throne to denaries and then you know dragons

after he dies or blah blah blah like sacrifice being one of the uh pillars of the story and also straight up there are like 15 to 20 characters who only have one eye in ace waft and a non-zero amount of them are a little freaky or connected to like having some sort of sight or connected to like being in prophecies or to magical blood. Like, I know George is super Odin core. I know George loves Odin. He loves Odin archetype. I get that.

But Amund, Blood Raven, Barrick eventually, the one-eyed crone. Like... Oh, they even made Robin Reisling kind of like supernatural and Spirche is a one guy in the show. Yeah. I know that they were nodding. Like, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. I can't wait for Chloe to figure this one out and talk about it on Mancon Cannon, which we know will be the name of the show.

Yeah. Because they also took an eye out so they could see it. Seriously, though, like, that's a pretty strong percentage. I don't know. Timette, there's something going on with that boy. Yeah, I did kind of wonder. Timit Di Shalameh, which is like a great Halloween costume. Oh, wait, wait.

Timit Timothy Shalameh, Paul Atreides, Muadib. Like, yeah, no. Something's in there. Timet is the fucking Lisan. Al-Gaib of the mountains. I'm in, I'm in. You just have like a necklace of ears. I don't know.

I'm all in on this now. Something's going on. That's coming back too. You got to get ready for Dude Prophecy Season 2. It's coming back for us. That's on Patreon too. Both of them. Both right?

Yeah. Dang. Yeah. Also, thanks or Christmas for Merry Christmas. You're getting Dune 3. Wow. Which may or may not have a non-zero amount of children a dune in it, said Chloe for years. And if it doesn't have a non-zero amount, I never said that shit.

She never did. Yeah. You didn't hear it. She didn't. Um, I was saying that this, I don't know, I think this isn't like something that George planned, but it's just kind of fun to think about that there's a character here called the red hand. or he's called Red Hand, that's the War Chief. And, like, of course, we know that a hand is a very high station,

which is the case for our friend Ned. And it makes me think of, like, the Bloody Hand, which is the name of the play that Aria performs in as Mercy in the Mercy chapter in Bravo's. And that play is based off of Tyrion very, very loosely. This is, like, you know, a sensationalized biopic. It's, like, the social network of Tyrion's life. life. And it also makes me think of like, as he asks, what do you think like the king burned off,

right? It makes me think of the other aspects that we see in terms of like Stannis looking into the fire and he's like, I saw a king wearing a crown of fire. I'm like, bro, that's you. All right. Like, what we see about kingship and leadership and it's playing into that discussion of like commander or captive, right, is that it asks you to burn away your whole self. It consumes. And I don't know. Lastly, I don't know, we're doing some body horror shit. Loss of a body part makes me think of Jamie.

Absolutely. Interesting. We look up at the same stars and see such different things, Eliana. Like any body part, they all are losing body parts, which is part of our friend, our friend Hamfass discussion on why Tyrion might lose his tongue in the Quiet Lion theory. That's true. Perish podcast. Yeah, Cerses was just losing her hair, which is kind of different than losing a hand or a tongue,

but whatever. I don't know. Not that different. I mean, when you have hair like mine, honey. I was like, hair grows back. She's a, we're adamant about that. But she could lose her life. Not always.

But so good, Jamie. Or you go to Turkey. Yeah. No, it's insane. I didn't know that they had that procedure until like a year ago or two. and I was like, we live in the future. Girl, you know I'm on the gram. I see that shit.

I love this line. If a man was mad enough to put out his own eye, he was unlikely to be gentle to his enemies. This feels foundational for George's word, like for us to know about the story. It means something. Again, 15 to 20 people are one-eyed in the Asong of Ice and Fire Canon.

Did you know this? What does it mean? And they are all kind of ballers. Like that list is characters around whom the plot kind of like creates a vortex and everyone drawn into it just gets wrecked. Like, yeah. Yeah. One eye equals badass. Write that down.

Something about these one-eyed characters. Something's going on here with this, but I love this line. Like, that tells us something to watch out for in this story, maybe. Yeah. People with one eye. They're mean. We're gonna find out more about that this summer on Hot D. I hope he hangs strong again.

Anyway, Watchers peer from towers as, he was like a statue. He was like a beautiful statue. I'm like, wow. He was a really alarming, upsetting statue. Like,

yeah, he's a freak. The way he walked was so fucked up. I love it. It was really good. It was wondering around. Yeah. He's amazing.

He is amazing in the role. I'm sorry. Yeah. He was a great job. He was Eamon Targary and like, George loves an anime villain. That's all that matters. That's what we get. He loves an anime villain.

George, you would love anime. Like, let me show you anime. George, we have recommendations. Watchers peer down from towers as Tyrion and his crew descends. And he notes that a raven takes flight. A message is leaving. A dozen crossbow men hold the height. at a strong point when he asks who commands, the captain quickly appears, and

recognizing Lord Tywin's son, provides an escort. Ah, honorable. This kind of stood out to me as interesting, especially in the context of, like, Ari's storyline where part of her strength is she's able to slip in and out of any identity, she can be fucking anyone, you know? Whereas with Tyrion, because of his dwarfism, right? Like, it definitely cuts against him in a lot of ways, but it also makes, him so, I mean, like, iconic, right?

Like, everyone knows who he is. You don't get, and, like, as well as how he carries himself. He's clearly, like, high-born, right? So these people all know. This is Tyrion Lannister, right? And, like, sure, a lot of other, you know, like, dwarves get killed in, like, Circe's, like, whole campaign. But they, that's just people being, like, ridiculous.

Like, they, you stand out because of that. and Tyrion does. So yeah, I don't know. Recognize a dude. Yeah, and it makes for a fun character archetype too, like just from the jump with sort of designing who Tyrion is, because a lot of

even fantasy, a lot of like kind of trickster characters, political characters, guys are like, okay, this guy's deal with his high charisma score, so to speak, are able to conceal their identity in some ways. You know, we're talking about lies of Lachlamora and within a swoff

there's certainly, you know, Varus is doing this shit all the time. Yeah, true, true, good point. We just had Littlefinger. Yeah, and Littlefinger never really, it's funny with Littlefinger, he never pretends to be someone else. He just pretends that the person he is is not the person he is. He constructs, you know, a false peter. And with Tyrion, many such cases. Many such cases.

And with Tyrion, like, he just can't do that. That is not an avenue available to him until it kind, like, when he's exiled, he kind of does. he even kind of like chokes about it with Jamie in their last heartwarming moment before everything goes to shit and it's just interesting to kind of have this character who's he cannot be anything other than who he is

despite having all these natural gifts for deception and self-deception yeah very much in everywhere you go there you are kind of person character yeah like another mantra though of another character

that we like, he was who he was, right? Motherless. Oh, that guy. Yeah. Damned. A dear friend of Tyrion's. Honestly, yeah. Actually, yeah.

Yeah. His only friend, bro. Yeah. No, he's got Penn. He doesn't know that, though. He's got Penny later. Um. Kind of.

Anyway. I was like, I don't know. That's stretching friendship. I was like, hold on. I need to reassess. Are they friends? Yeah. Um.

Oh, my God. We'll find out. So they pass blackened fields and hold fast in the Riverlands toward the green fork. No bodies remain, yet carrying crows and ravens fill the air, clear signs of a recent battle. The camp stretches to the horizon and smoke is rising from hundreds of cook fires where men sit sharpening blades. A group of horsemen approaches led by a knight in silver armor inlaid with amethyst. Wearing a striped purple and silver cloak. The shield bears a unicorn.

Flement Brax. I like to pronounce it Flement. Flamont. I know he's French. This guy, the swagger on this motherfucker, though. Like, the way he's described, swagger.

Swagger O'Clock. Holy shit. And Tyrion greets him, and Flamont looks surprised at Tyrion's companions. I work with a couple of French people now, so it's just my life. It's Flamon. This is like,

He looks surprised at Tyrion's companions, and Tyrion's like, these are my bosom friends and loyal retainers, which I want to start saying to people all the time. And he asks for his father, Tywin Lannister is, of course, holding court at the inn at the Crossroads, his personal command post, an irony, of course, that Tyrion laughs at as they ride on. Also, crossroads-inspired musical,

but it's at the end of the Crossroads, and it's about Heron Hall. Okay, yeah, into it. we could have like a scene like in lightness like one more day and like yeah um i'm not convinced I'm not convinced that like the Mad King play wasn't mildly inspired by us constantly like telling people that there should be a musical like there's like a non-zero part of me that believes our influence that's it

thanks for listening to the podcast everyone and my delusions. I too am a little mad. So, Chola's estimate of 20,000 men proves close. Pavilions and banners crowd the landscape. Turya notes, the red ox of the pressers, the brindled boar of the crate calls,

the burning tree of marbrand, the badger of liden, knights call out to him, staring openly at the Klansman, while Shaga steers back at the sheer mass of men, horses, and weapons. It was funny, rereading this, this like catalog of, you know,

Elyette S. catalog of houses. This is, this and like the next few chapters are just the whole lens we get on the subsidiary houses, that's the wrong word, but whatever, it's corporate life. The subsidiary houses of the Western lands until kind of Jamie's chapters in feet. We just get so much less of the other guys that we do for any of the other kingdoms. You know, obviously we get a lot of northern houses, but just anywhere else we go, it's like, these are the lords and, you know, their families you need to know about. And this is the big drunk o'fish house.

And this is the schemy house. The Westernlands are just a bunch of guys. Like, they're just some guys who, like, jump when Tywin raises an eyebrow. And I think that is by design both the way George is coding them for us. And then also kind of in the universe, that's how Tywin likes it. He wants a bunch of yes men. All the personality was removed from them or drowned in those caves. Oh, yeah.

Image is everything. Yeah. Right? Image is everything for him. Yeah. So it's so clear. Yeah. So it's just their heraldry and otherwise, like, we don't need to know about them.

You know, a Brax is a Marbrand, is a Leiden. Yeah, they're all beneath the lion. And what's so funny is like, then you have Little Finger the smaller scale version of Tywin. The only thing Tywin has that he doesn't is like legitimacy and a handful more murders than he does. A handful? Okay, a couple handful. like five handful more. He does at least.

Okay, maybe like 500 I don't know. But I'm at this point in the story, okay. Yeah. I might have been underestimating it. Sorry. Because Tywin's like, you know, he old money, right? And then Little Fingers's new money, which is very much like what they're kind of,

he is playing with that, you know, the whole great Gatsby thing. So they are this, it is the same. It is the same. Agree, we're aligned. We are aligned. Yeah, no, I think that's a good point regarding the Western Lens and how we don't get much of it. I kind of believe that it's probably going to play more of a role in wins or whenever Tyrion gets back. But I don't really, I don't know.

I feel like that's what I think would happen, but everything kind of got like pushed back and bloated as the story grew into telling. Tyrion knows the display is at least somewhat impressing all of these Mountain Clans. and the other mountain clansmen keep their reactions much more guarded. Tyrion, though, is pleased all the same. Like, Tyrion's a guy who, like, during, you know, the red-bunning episode of Game of Thrones is, like, filming his friend's reactions. He's like, how are they going to react? And we have this line here of the more oppressed they were with the power of the lanisters,

the easier they would be to command. And that feels very Melisandra coded to me. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Tyrion and Melisandra met very briefly in the show that these books are based on, right? Like, they occupied some screen together, maybe. I don't know if they'll ever be... Yeah, almost. Yeah, I don't know if they'll ever meet in the books.

Maybe not. Yeah, there's just an interesting pairing to consider, like, of just how they would react to each other. I don't know what's going to happen in Melisandra. That is a character that I'm kind of like, I mean, I think... Her show ending is probably somewhat accurate in some ways. But I feel like everyone who knows the in between. Like the more tied into the sort of like supernatural and metaphysical the character is, the less I think the show told us what is going to happen to them.

Yeah. If smart. Yeah. Yeah. Because they don't know what the fuck to do with that. Like magic. That's for nerds. Yeah.

And we're not nerd. We like sacks. We're like football. We're making fantasy. football but literal. Yeah. So not much has really changed about the end at the crossroads,

except other than all of the tumbled, burnt stones that make up the village that Taiwan burned down. And that's pretty much how the Riverlands is going to look for a while, so get used to it. And also, oh yeah, he hanged the innkeep. A body swings from a gibbet

covered in ravens that take flight when Tyrion approaches. He looks up at the inn keeps corpse, her sour-stained teeth, sour-leaf stained teeth gleaming back at him beneath raven-eaten eyes, lips and cheeks. He reminds the corpse. All he asked for was a room. This is really Roman Roy shit, the, like,

the internal narration of, like, not much has changed other than the burnt-down, like, my dad burnt down this village and killed everyone. but like other than that looks about the same. Damn, why didn't I get my room? Why didn't I get my wine? And you can't really tell how sarcastic it is and how much he is sincerely just like, oh yeah, it's about the same.

Like, fucking... No, you liked it in the cage. Yeah. Exactly. And there's something really fucked up in the way like, poor Masha Hedle, first of all, justice for Masha Heddle. It makes actually the Brienne

chapter even that much more, you know, powerful when she thinks she's saving Jane Heddle, right, of relation to Masha. And also like, okay, Tyrion, as if she wanted to be there, as if she wanted you guys to be there. Like, I'd like to break down the entire, like, what we see in the Catalan chapter and then the Tyrion chapter, because he's just making shit up right here. He thinks about how the Inkeep should have supported him and then he'd be a, like, that, then in keep would be alive. And let's just rewind the tape. He shows up and he demands a room and she's like, I'm so sorry, we don't have any. And she's really apologetic and totally like a bash. She's slammed. She's busy. And she's like, we don't have a room. I'm so sorry. The attorney. Like everyone's already

staying here. So he pulls out gold, flicks it in the air. And a free rider is like, oh, I'll give up my room for you, my lord. And he's like, there's a clever man. And then he turns to her and he's like, you'll be able to manage food. I trust. question mark. Okay. Snide, snoddy. So he shows up. He demands a room, demands food.

Masha promises him anything he wants he can have, too, by the way. And then everyone starts a fucking fight, which is not her fault. That is not her fault. And she tried. She actually said,

no swords, not here. Please, my lords. And they didn't fucking listen to her. And then she's like, don't kill him here. And he's like, don't kill me anywhere. Roman. And all Tyrion can think is a room, a meal, and a flagon of wine.

That was all I asked. As if it was her fucking fault, Elameo, Elamo, Elmio, what? No, yeah. It really is, like, those little lights are, like, Tyrionette is worst, where this is like, this is a problem you caused. You invited yourself in there, and no one wanted you there, and it fucked up your life, and now you're blaming the person who, like, own the place you invited yourself in.

And I think there is an undercurrent of sarcasm of him being, like, yes, like none of this had to happen to you but like that's, you know, he gets to say that because he's still alive. Yeah. Yeah, like, okay, let's rewind and try again and see what happens if she supports him. It's also... You think her support

is going to change your fate. Damn, the innkeeper said no. That he thinks of it, like, and like in his interiority. I mean, he's probably just being a little sarcastic, but also he's like, hmm, just, like, Taiwan did have like a taste for justice. I'm like, this is not justice. But also, like, arguably, it isn't even, like, Tyrion's fault.

It just, Marillion was being weird and obnoxious, and Katlin felt like she had to act on that information, right? Like, it was just like a crazy conflagration of, like, shitty things that happen. And, but he can't, like, really, you know, he's in the state of, like, emotional immaturity where he's like, I have to blame someone, so I'm going to blame the, I'm going to blame the pores. Right? And I'm like, but sometimes. Because again, I'm struck by how young he is. He is really young. He's not.

Yeah. And as you mentioned, a particularly sheltered 27. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. He's really young. The only view that he has of the world up until this book pretty much is what his father allowed him to view.

Yeah. And I don't excuse like, you know, 27's old enough to like not be like that. But I'm also like, that's kind of crazy. It's so crazy to think like, you know, that or like little fingers like 20. Well, and what did you say again? That he wasn't sure if he was commander. Or captive, yeah. Or captive.

And that's his home life too. Like Rubenside, get back in the cage, Roman Roy. He likes it there. Well, hesitantly, stable boys emerged to tend their horses. Shaga is wary and we'll give his horse up. But Turing promises, he's like, no, no, no. they're not going to take your horse. They're just going to give your horse oats and water and brush her.

Your horse will not be harmed. And we have this line of glaring Shaga let go his grip on the reins. This is the horse of Shaga, son of Dolph. He roared at the stable boy. If he doesn't give her back, chop off his manhood and feed it to the goats, Tyrion promise, provided you can find some. And I'm just like, aw, he cares about his horse so much. Oh, Tyrion used to have a horse he cared about.

I just remembered that. That did die. Damn. That was from his brother. Yeah. If Shaga has his own horse, that is also probably like most of his material wealth, too. That's true. Yeah, besides, I guess it isn't just sentimental.

I was like, aw, they're friends. Probably both. But yeah, yeah, that's like, that's a little like, that's, that's just, he needs that car. If that car breaks down, he's trucked. That's true, yeah. Yeah. Shaga cannot fit on public transit. Yeah.

That's real. A pair of household Lannister guards stand under the inn sign, and Tyrion recognizes the captain, and the captain says his father is within. He tells them his men will want meat and mead, and then we introduce. Tywin Lannister. He entered the inn, and there was father. Tywin Lannister, Lord of Castorley Rock and Warden of the West, was in his middle 50s, yet hard as a man of 20. Even seated, he was tall, with long legs, broad shoulders, a flat stomach.

His thin arms were corded with muscle. When his once thick golden hair had begun to recede, he had commanded his barber to shave his head. Lord Tywin did not believe in half measures. He razored his lip and chin as well, but kept his side whiskers, two great thickets of wiry golden hair that covered most of his cheeks from ear to jaw. His eyes were a pale green, flecked with his side-wiskered with. gold. A fool more foolish than most had once jested that even Lord Tywin's shit was flecked with gold. Some said the man was still alive, deep in the bowels of castorly rock. Sir Kevin Lannister, his father's

only surviving brother, was sharing a flagon of ale with Lord Tywin when Tyrion entered the common room. Regina, Regina, Regina. Oh, my God. He has everything. Is that from the Mean Girls musical? Yeah. Yeah, okay.

My sister worked on that doing costumes. Oh, wow. It's so good. It's one of my favorite musicals. Yeah, she said was really good. My compliments to the shop. Yeah, this is such a good intro. So I'm going to ramble for a little bit.

I have like a couple things here that I didn't dig into. Go off King. And one of the ones I just thought of is like, it is so funny that Kevin is also just introduced. like an afterthought, just like a tag on, and Kevin sent it. Like, perfect intro. His whole life. Yeah.

Yes, his whole life. So Tywin's whole life is, so there's this piece of analysis that was originally on a Swoff Reddit that in my mind, I thought it was poor Quentin because it proposed, I just assumed it was him because part of it was proposing Uron as like the final villain. It was not. It was poster Colty Harrison posted like 10 years ago. but basically an analysis of like a three-act structure of Ace Woff with Tywin, Ramsey, Bolton, and Uron as kind of like the ultimate villains of each act. And where Uron represents supernatural evil and Ramsey is like the worst, you know, bestial human evil,

Taiwan is institutional evil. He is a human synecary of the feudal system or George's version of it and of aristocracy in general. and I totally, that part especially has rung true to me since I saw that written out. I have a quote from Alison Weir's book about The Wars of the Roses, called The Wars of the Roses, a very good pop historian, like if you want to read a bunch of medieval history and don't have the time or brain to get access to a bunch of academic texts like me. I do not have that time of brain. But it's a description of Richard Devil, the Earl of Warwick, one of the major power players,

the Wars of the Roses. Warwick was the archetypal English magnate, whose chief motivation was the enrichment and promotion of himself and his family. He was power-hungry, acquisitive and arrogant, like most of his case. He had been born to govern, and hence he could also be ruthless and unscrupulous, thinking nothing of resorting to violence and even murder when he considered it expedient. He wasn't greatly interested in aesthetic things such as art, literature, or architecture, nor was he more than conventionally pious. He used his well as well as, to buy the support and friendship of influential men, and so built up his own power and military strength. Like, that's very Tywin. And Warwick, better known to history, or also known to history, as the Kingmaker,

he was original, like, in Georgia's original, like, War of the Roses with the serial numbers filed off. He was clearly the inspiration for Jamie, kingmaker, king slayer. And Tywin was a stand-in for his dad, also Richard Neville, the Earl of Salisbury. The king-maker married into, married the Warwick heiress and became much richer and more powerful than his dad. But like even back in book one with like Jamie was just purely a fucking villain piece of shit, he was

not much of a political actor. So some of these aspects and that role trickled out to the rest of his family, some Circe, some Tyrion, but I think in a large part, Tywin kind of became that kingmaker figure. The way that weir describes him as, you know, one of the

major actors there and as someone who is just he is his position. He is a representative of the system. Like, that's all he cares about. Even, like, you know, you see throughout the story that, like, when does Tywin do anything for fun? Even, like, class-approved fun, like, he doesn't go hunting,

he doesn't go jousting. He has no connection to, like, sensuality or physicality. You know, he has less on-page references to sex than Roos fucking Bolton. Like, he gets less play than Dracula. which to be fair of Dracula. Yes. Well, that's the thing. Bruce Bolton is fucking as well

every night that he can. Yeah, and he brags about it to Fion, which is like weird flex, bro. But like, yeah, Tywin, all we, like, every reference we know about him and sex, whether he's engaging in it or, like, by proxy, it's a tool of abuse and control. Even music.

Music is just, he has his own theme song, which he deploys as a threat. There is nothing in his... It's a weapon. Yes. Nothing in his life that he does not instrumentalize. He is completely dedicated as a person to the exercise of power and upholding the thing from which he benefits and which he personally represents. To the point where it seems that he is disconnected from his own humanity and personhood in a way. And I think we see some other signs of this that he is comfortable with physicality. He like the sex that he has is like a, you know, it's hidden and shameful. And he takes a lot of pains and a lot of effort to, like, control Tyrion's body and control Tyrion's sensuality and sexuality, because he considers it innately shameful. And part of that is, like, the abelism of, you know, like, he thinks it's fucked up that Tyrion's alive in his body, much less able to enjoy it.

But I also think it's kind of, you know, Tyrion is a sin-eater for his own shameful desires, like the fact that Tyrion goes out and hire sex workers, Tywin hates that because he also does that. And yet at this thing, you know, all of this, you know, rich cocktail is going on in Tywin's head. And he's so good at image politics, which does matter for like what he is, that his intro lays that out. Like, he's so impressive. He fools readers.

Our friends, David and Dan, were very much fooled by Tywin's presentation. And that shit gold story, which will be echoed throughout up until the point where we find out that he doesn't. It is so important as Skeleton Key, because it is the motif, like Tywin and shit is the motif that George is going to use over and over to beat us with this man is a

fraud. Yes. No, I love it. It's so true and like everything with the sexuality and like everything he uses as a weapon. I mean, I think of a clash of kings with Circe right? Love is a poison, a sweet poison, but it'll kill you all the same.

That's what he taught them. The poison. and drips through to each one of them. And it's something so good about the Lannisters, right? Like something's so fun that each one of them is so wrong in some way because of Tywin. You captured it so well. And he is so corporate coded. He kills me these days. He's such a girl boss.

He's literally too much when I reread these. Like throughout the introduction, you realize he's not smart. He's just good at politicking. Like, all you have to do is say something with conviction. say a clever little phrase with conviction and hope no one pulls it apart if you say it well enough and you'll be great, you'll win, you'll be moving up the ladder in no time

and kill the right people and to the top, straight to the top. Getting these lines throughout the chapters like earlier when we were talking about the guy losing his eye, the guy losing out his own eye being like insane. Any man that can do that is insane. It's great because throughout the chapter we get these bits where Tywin's like, huh,

Barak Dondyrian's just some boy, you know? He's not anything to trifle with. And Tyrion's like, yeah, like, if I had time, I'd take care of him. No, you wouldn't, Tyrion. But what happens with Barak Dondarian? Well, he doesn't fucking die is what happens. And his own eye ends up coming out. He's a madman.

So very misjudging. We look at later the Rob stuff. like judgment call not great as we see because Rob ends up beating their asses for a while. And it's fun that like we get some lines about Gregor in this and like, I don't know, Gregor is the one that took the eye from Barak Dondarian, right? So you have Gregor who Tywin bends over backwards

to appease throughout the story to keep him and his brute strength on his side instead of against him, because that would be much worse, uh, versus Barrick Dondarian can take on Gregor, right? Beric Dondyrian hands it back to Gregor and somehow lives through it to tell the tale. So George goes out of his way, to your point, Rubin, to tell you that fundamentally in every way Tywin is wrong. He constantly is saying things that are not true in the long run in the story.

Things like, well, this thing will happen because that's what happens and he's a boy. And then guess what? No, that's not necessarily what happens. out of his way. And it's interesting because yeah, Tyrion also feels that way about his father and says all these same things, that George is going out of our way to tell us these things aren't going to come true. Tyrion is going to think they will.

Tywin is going to say they will, and then they are not going to, which is me reinforcing that this man isn't shit. Yeah. I really like everyone's analysis here. First of all, I do remember that essay that you cited. I remember that username when you said, I was like, oh, yes. Are they okay? And then, as you described it, I was like, I remember reading this.

And also, I think, like, a good rule of thumb is, I feel like this might just be in my head. Poor Quentin's essays tended to be published on Tumblr, not on Reddit. And that's how you know. That's a good rule of thumb, y'all. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. That's a 10 years ago on Reddit move right there. I commented. I commented in that thread. You can find me in it.

And so, yeah, I also kind of forgot, like, as you said, like, I think that's a really good observation of how joyless Taiwan is. Like, he hides it. He wants to hide it. He's like, my daddy had too much fun, and I made that everyone else's problem. And to what you were saying, like, Chloe, like, he's not necessarily, like, that much more competent than everyone. and he's just much more brutal.

And he was given the ability to be more brutal than everyone else. He, like, highly overcorrected for his dad. And, like, was like, I'm going to be way too involved in my kids' lives, unlike dad, who was just fucking around, sent me off to war to die, and then where I went to go watch other guys, like, go there and fight alongside their dads. And he wasn't there for me. He could have been, because this is part of my special interest, the War of the Nine Penny Kings.

I also think it's interesting that we're told that Taiwan is tall I kind of forgot that he was tall and that emphasis on his height right in contrast to Tyrion what he's seen his whole life yeah that's what he's seen his whole life he's always had to look up at that yeah like the physical description of him like Rubin was saying like what an introduction the physical description is like a man yeah yeah he is the I like let, you know, thing about the Earl of Warwick. He's the archetypal, you know, Westerosie overlord. He is central casting.

And they fucked up and cast Charles Dance, and it's like, oh man, I guess we do actually have to make impressive. And it's just so, like, what you were saying earlier on, like, made me think that in both cases, both, like, his kind of, his lack of joy and his weird

personal hangups and his mediocrity in all three cases. Yeah. He instrumental power. The power he was born into and the power he, like, you know, some of which he was able to seize by, like, you know, pressing the big war crimes button, his only move. He, beep, beep. Yeah. His power lets him make his mediocrity into greatness. His power lets him make his weird sexual hangups into, like, a matter of state policy. He is able to put, forcing his son to be both a victim and a participant in, like, horrific sex crimes becomes like this. this lesson in family discipline, and he doesn't, he is the institution. It becomes institutional. Yep.

Live it, breathe it. Yeah. Certainly he looked straight at the camera, like, fucking Merrill Streep style, and is like, oh, don't be silly, darling, of course. People want to be this. Like, look at it. Of course you want to be this, because he finally got legitimacy. Yeah, everybody wants this.

I literally watched it yesterday again for the 80th time. Sorry, but somehow I can't get it. Can't get it right. Thank God I have you. Line. I actually can't remember a majority of Liorites and lines, as you know, Chloe. You have watched me fuck things up constantly. It's just because I saw a quote. I wouldn't call it that.

I just saw it happen to see a graphic that was talking about that quote recently. That's the only reason. Yeah, I think, I don't know, we'll probably talk about this more in that final Tyrion chapter, but there's something about, like, very Freudian about Tyrion's storyline in which, of course, Taiwan represents the super ego and then the death of it and the killing of it. Yeah. Conquered by the id of Tyrion. But anyways, speaking of people who like give in to, but Taiwan has a lot of id.

It's just like somehow everyone's like, whoa, that was like crazy. That was like, you know, he punched me in the face. It was awesome, right? Like that's what everyone's doing. Like how they're all like, wow, it was like really, really intense. but like we decided it was very smart that he kept a man alive and the bowels of Cassarly Rock, what, for insulting him? And it does make me think again, I was like,

Circe is a lot like her dad. That is so Tywin of her to have just kept people like alive down there in the dungeons of the Red Keep, like her treatment of Feliz. And of course, speaking of like singers and whatever, like the Blue Bard, yeah, Tiran does shit like that too, but he doesn't keep them alive. He just puts them in soup. Which is different. That's not very time when Esk of you, Tyrion. You should have kept that man alive and tortured him longer. God, it's funny that all the Lannisters hate, like, have weird things from musicians except for Jamie.

Who's just like, yeah, I like a song. Yeah, what's up, Tom? You're probably cool, right? Like, everyone else has these weird fucking, like, pick a minstrel to torture things. And Jamie just gets to coast along, like, it'd be cool if they wrote a song about me. I don't know, you know. You know, I mean, we could get a book, so don't count your chickens before they hatch. Whoa. Tom Seven screams is going to fucking wreck that, man. I'm getting crazy there.

We could get a book. Damn. They made books about this show. We might get a book, so you don't know. Cool. He could still have time to grow a fucking thought about it. It could still happen for Jamie. Portly, balding, and with a massive jaw, the anti-introduction.

Uncle Kevin greets Tyrion before Tywin. Ooh, jot that down. Tywin simply says, I see the rumors of your demise were unfounded. And Tyrion responds, sorry to disappoint you. There's no need for him to get up and embrace him, he says. I'm sorry, but like the line of,

I see the rumors of your demise were unfounded. Like, that line does kind of hit. Like, I feel like that's a line you can just use just in everyday life. You go up and say, I see the rumors of your demise were unfounded. That's how I'm going to greet you now. Your friend survives being sick.

You know what that is? That's the I lived bitch meme. Well, it's Mark Twain, right? The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It probably is very much inspired by that. And the I lived bitch meme. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Should I explain it? For those at home that haven't seen it, it's like an eye message

and it says, I lived bitch under a picture of a guy in the hospital with like cords hooked up to him. And he's like making the rock and roll symbol. He's like, I lived, bitch. Yeah. You're welcome. That was my best one yet. It's Barrick. It was.

And George did get it from that. Yeah. It's actually just a picture of Barak Dondarian, though. Yeah, I lived bitch. Well, we also have this other line here. Whenever his father's eyes were on him, he became uncomfortably aware of all his deformities and shortcomings. And I'm like, that is also very much something that we read in Circe's interiority.

Yeah. Absolutely. What was it? The last chapter versus this, too, you have Catalan right, but you have like that Circe and Catalan have those similarities and interiority about their family discoveries. They start discovering and unraveling. And there's a lot going on with all of these familial little things in a row.

What is George trying to do? Honestly, it's kind of interesting to me because, like, on one hand, it makes sense to be exploring these. but arguably some of his younger characters, I think, are the ones who should be going through that arc or characters who are in their 20s, like earlier 20s. Like, I'm just thinking about life stages and when this happens for people and you realize your parents are like fallible and stuff. And it's interesting to me that it is coming to them so late in age. As a 22-year-old, I'm not there yet.

Well, thanks. I'm about to be Circe age, so hotter than ever. Is that your way of announcing that you're about? to start drinking. Oh, no. She's been drinking. It's my way of announcing. Yeah, no, but not drugs.

Never done drugs. It's my way of announcing that I'm about to start throwing people in the dungeons and just leaving them there. Ooh, sexy. You love it. Abandonment. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyrion sarcastically thanks his father for going to war for him. And Tywin's like, Jamie would never have submitted to being captured by a woman. What? Hold on. Sorry. Stop the press. Jamie would never submit to be captured by a woman. Article B.

A clash of kings, a storm of swords, a feast for... That's like his whole thing, right? He loves it. Jamie is like essentially just like getting like women of Westrois to participate in his kink. Mentally he is on tarth wandering around going like, I'm so vulnerable. I hope no extremely tall and buffed women. in capture me right now.

I mean, Jamie's dream is to submit to women. That's why he submitted to the very first one he ever met, which was his twin sister. I'm sorry, Jamie. Like, if you had been born where you could have just got fin-domed online instead, your life wouldn't have been so weird.

All the golden castorly rock would have been gone. Yeah. Again, Tywin's wrong. Fundamentally in every way, just putting that out there. Just putting it. That's another one right there. Put it on your list of things that he's been wrong about.

I will say, like, it does really remind. You can see George's having so much fun writing this exchange. Like, I'm sorry, but Tyrion's line of like, that's one thing. Jamie's also taller than me. That's another thing that's different about us. Like, I'm sorry, Tyrion's lines, like, and even Tywin's, a whole exchange. They bang. Bangers.

It slaps. It slaps. But, like, it's also kind of sad because all of this, like, sarcasm and how it's interwoven with Tywin's dialogue and how he doesn't get up to even hug his son or like anything like and Tyrion's using that

sarcasm right that is his armor he's like using the humor to save face because he can't be vulnerable around his dad. None of them can and apparently his dad can't be vulnerable around fucking anyone is what Rubin has pointed out. It's kind of

heartbreaking right? There is no prodigal son reunion or moment for Tyrion. There's just, like, nothing. Yeah, like, he can barely even celebrate it as, like, a sort of, even the sort of, like, ah, yes, we need you for this war effort, like that. Someone, like, as big a piece of shit as, like, Randall Tarley would have managed that, you know, like, I mean, yeah, maybe I don't need to, like, stick up for Randall Carly here. I was like, I don't know if that's true. That's true. He did, like, make a point of not finding

Sam useful. But even just, like, I think the sort of rich internal cocktail of tie with, is like on another level. I think it's a good time to really talk about him as like a uniquely shitty dad. All right. Let's talk about it. Rubin, tell us how lousy was he at being a dad? What do you think about Tyrion Lannister's dad? What do you think about? So I should note that last year at Fourth Street Fantasy, one of the panels we put on was one I've been wanting to do for a couple of years. It's always on Father's Day weekend, just how it worked out.

to the bad dads of fantasy, speculative masculine. It was a really fun panel. One of our panelists made like a list of good dads in fantasy and sci-fi and a list of bad dads. And they were just the same list. You just read the same list twice. It was a great bit. But we talked about Tywin as like one of the headliners here as a sort of character who embodies a lot of bad fatherhood in a lot of different ways. I came prepared with another quote from

one of George's favorite books, The Once in Future King, P.H. White's great Arthurian classic as describing Mordred. Desdemona robbed of life or honor is nothing to a Mordred, robbed of himself. His soul stolen, overlaid, wizened, while the mother character lives in triumph,

superfluously and with stifling love endowed on him, seemingly innocent of ill-intention. Mordred was the only son. son of Orkney who never married. While his brothers fled to England, he was the one who stayed alone with Morgas for 20 years, her living larder. Now that she was dead, he had become her grave. She existed in him like the vampire. When he moved, when he blew his nose, he did it with her movement. When he acted, he became as unreal as she had been. So first off, T.H. White had some stuff going on with his mom.

That's another podcast. But that is like, it is a theme throughout the books that like Mordred and his brothers, Gawain and Dareth and the others are all to greater or lesser degrees kind of overlaid by their mother, their instruments of Morgous

and in Mordred's case, kind of a tool of revenge against Arthur. And Tywin is Morghaus. I think that crept into the Lannisters is that he is someone who just overwhelms his family's personhood. Gemma says later, he cast a long shadow on his brothers. He, you know, they all had to figure out how to navigate that.

But he ate his kids alive, like Kronos, you know. Someone actually needs to Photoshop Tywin devouring his son, like that fucking Goya. He treats his kids as extensions of himself to an insane degree. Like, they are either proxies for his goals and his acceptable desires, or in Tyrion's case, they're a proxy and a sin eater for the desires that shame them. He cannot imagine their lives beyond him. And when I say cannot imagine, it is not like, you know, he denies it. It is just he doesn't have the conception.

I think a lot, I meant to bring this up at another point, but like, the idea of a Taiwan POV chapter is so interesting to consider because like, it's hard to think of them as a guy with interiority, right? he's like Mark Andresen, one of the billionaire freaks ruining our lives that we have to know about, gave an interview recently, like, talking about how he thinks self-reflection is a modern concept. That's a thing that, like, you know, the Greeks and Romans didn't have, and he doesn't have it either. And that, to me, is Taiwan. Like, Taiwan is the CEO who would, like, happily out let, like, chat GPT run his whole life so he can, like, fucking, you know, success win all over the place.

and like the idea of reflecting on yourself is like not. Oh, he's like a CEO poster on LinkedIn that uses chat GPT and nothing means anything. Yeah, he would absolutely be one of those fucking guys who like does nothing but post all day about how good he is and being the CEO. It's like six hours ago, another change in the supply chain. And it's like, girl, when do you work? Yeah, you don't do anything. Yeah, but like he because he does not like have, and I think like, you know, this is almost, you could. by my standards a generous reading that like all of his interiority and personhood is like

shit he puts aside because like the death of his wife traumatized him or whatever fucking like every everyone on westeros has a dead wife like george killed a lot of wives and moms i'm sorry brother but like you've got to move on yeah not even a little you're not special jesus um but yeah i used to like you can almost feel bad for him but the stuff he does is what makes you go, oh no, you can fuck right off, Taiwan. And it matters. It really matters because, like, there's, like, I think a common reading

of Taiwan in one, like, that I've had in the past is like, well, like, first, you know, he, he does, there is stuff he's good at as, like, you know, a general or a politician or whatever. He's a shitty dad, but the thing is, there is no but. Dad is his job. He is the

head of a house in, like, a patriarchal system. The entire system that he upholds, that he dedicates his life, to inhabiting and maintaining and destroying any attempt to soften or reform, all of that is based around his role as the patriarch. That is the social compact that he has this power and status because he will prepare future generations of sons to uphold that power and status. And you can't go like, well, okay, screwed up as a dad, look at X and Y, because dad is his fucking job. He is significantly worse at being, you know, a great lord than Mace Tyrell. Because Mace Tyrell is a good dad. Like,

Westorosi standards face Tyrell's fucking father in a year. Like, it is his job. And if you can't do that job, none of the other shit matters. And he cannot do that job because being a father means admitting that your children like are people at some point and you have to prepare

there to be people and not just like... And he never cut the court. No. No. He's just playing. He's playing K-K-3. He's playing K-K-3 and like, I'm going to play as Jamie next. He loves eugenics. He's like, I love eugenics. He does love eugenics. He does He's in K3 making some blonde fucking babies just like his babies did. Babies making babies.

Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, he's the fucking worst. He's terrible. Holy shit. And also, like, all the general ship and politics. He's, like, he's pretty mad at that, too. Like, he's, he's mediocre.

And he just has sparkly words and sparkly money. That's all it takes. I'm halfway there. I mean, he does, right? Sparkly words. That's exactly, I think that is exactly, like, after rereading, like, the series he is a lot of the way she approaches things. actually arguably sound kind of like the way maybe Tywin would have.

He just happened to have sparkly money and a sparkly dick. And, because she was technically the first born. You know? Yeah. That's the thing he failed. Three of them and he doesn't feel like any of them are fit. It's your own fault. Yeah, but same as Tyrion, right?

Couldn't possibly be so in fault. That's something Tyrion got it from his dad. He learned from dad. It's not my fault. It's never my fault. In In Terriot's case, it is like, you also have his dad telling him from like the moment he was old enough to be conscious, it is your fault. It is your fault. Your mom is dead. You can, a little, it is a little bit understandable in his case as like a defense mechanism. But then he's just like also doing it to some poor dead innkeeper. It's like, brother, you got it. Absolutely. And I really liked that you brought up the Once in Future King because it actually is very much referenced in this introduction of Tywin. And, and. I really liked that you brought up the Once in Future King because it actually is very much referenced in this introduction of Tywin. And, And also, I don't know, like the names, all these names like fucking hit, you know, Morgos.

Sick. That's it. And then we have this line here of, from Tyman of the honor of our house was at stake. I had no choice but to ride. No man sheds Lannister blood with impunity. Hear me roar, Tyrion said, grinning. Tyrion admits, you know, it turned out well enough, despite nearly dying, and only, like, Morric and Jick were lost.

And we did find it out earlier. I was just reading poorly, but, like, and then he, like, slips in a whole, like, little thing of, like, damn, this beer's so good, it's so thick. And then he's, like, too bad that in-keep diet. I'm like, dang, Tyrion just gave, like, your fucking beer advocate rating with a thick ale and said all that. And I'm saying this because beer advocates sponsor us. This is not the only beer-related, like, company that I might. might like try and I don't know like whatever it's the end of our run let's fucking go

sponsor us girls gone corporate I do is beer I don't even know if beer advocate has the money for it I don't think so oh let's just neg them into sponsoring us they're probably they're probably too broke to sponsor you I don't think they could yeah that's yeah beer beer advocate is a very like men gun can't coded sponsor it's like uh oh dudes love putting a number on beers hey never forget that one year when um Manscape tried to sponsor sponsor every single A-Swaf podcast. Honestly, it's an interesting idea. And I kind of like, kind of think it would have been very interesting if we had done it.

Yeah. They should sponsor us now. That would have been. Yeah. Did they go bankrupt? Okay. Do they still exist? You know, I haven't.

I just keep negging companies into trying to get them. I don't think they exist. That's CEO mindset of just like, let's neg all our business partners. The Taiwan. I'm Taiwanese. I'm Taiwanese. be like, can't beat us.

Notice it's not tie losing. Until later when it is tie losing. It's so losing. It is. I do remember when I was first reading Game of Thrones mumble years ago, like being kind of struck by the death of Mosheedel.

Like, just because I didn't really know, you know, I'm halfway through the book for the first time. I don't know like what's going to happen and what kind of story this is. And it's just like, oh, this was like a recurring character who like Catlin knew her. She'd come up a few times and like people knew her. and she just gets marked off screen by Tywin.

Like, just like, here's Tyrion's dad, here's that friendly innkeeper getting her eyes pecked by crows. Like, cool, I guess that's Tywin. Like, this is a prelude of what's to come for the Riverlands and kind of everywhere this fucking guy goes. Yeah. So, Chloe, I know that we got to keep going, but at the same time, in your conception of the In at the Crossroads musical, whose perspective is it from? Like, where does Masha Heddle fit into it? I think.

thinking really hard right now. Can you see the wheels? Can you tell me your concept for the In at the Crossroads musical? Thank you for phrasing it that way with the microphone in your hand. That made me really understand it better. I'm a part of that generation,

you know, the younger generation that is like really in a TikTok. So I think that I see Masha Huddle as like a young 16, 17 year old during Robert's Rebellion and as a character at the inn at the crossroads. There you go.

Like being kind of, I bet she was hot as fuck too. I bet Mascha Heddle was serving beers and she was like, I shouldn't have to be here. She was serving cunt. She was like 18, you know, a lady unwed, families keep. Okay. Probably fourth generation, right? Gotta be fourth gen. Here's a pitch though.

Masha Heddle as, as her meets, as the like intro, like, she is. She's running begin. She's the storyteller. Yeah. It's like everyone, you know, like, once upon a time there was a crossroads in. Ooh. Yeah. Also, that would be fun. I'm like, Masha Heddle is waitress from Waitress. Okay. I haven't seen it, but okay. Masha Heddle, anyways, I really, she should have everything. We should give her everything, honestly. It is crazy, though. Like, she probably is like a fourth gen. owner or something. It's a family business and Tywin just like

fucking ruined a family business. Rewened a home. Rewened a village that supported that economy of the family business. You know, Tywin Lanister is not for business no matter what he says and we should not vote for him. Actually, no one voted for him. No one voted for him. So jot that down.

No one voted for him. He ruins homes, including his own. Yeah. And like let's turn to updates on that war that he's participating in. Sir Edmere Tully, scattered his forces on the border to stop the raiding of the Westerlands, but Kevin and Tywin destroyed them before they could regroup. Wham-Wam.

Jamie Lannister is busy claiming all the glory, quote-unquote. Okay, Tywin, we get it. Smashing Lord's Vance and Piper at the Golden Tooth and fighting the Tollies at Riverrun's walls. Edmere Tolley's been captured along with many Bannerman and Titus Blackwood. So serving. Titus Blackwood holds out at River Run under Jamie's siege. Raven Tree fell quickly.

Lady Shella went, yielded Heron Hall, and Gregor Clegane burned out the Pipers and the Brackens. The house malister and house fray continue to hold out. Taiwan's not concerned, by the way. He's like, all right, that's great. It is kind of funny that, like, I forget that by the time you really get into the meat of the War of the Five Kings and, like, really start, seeing more about the tactics

and thinking more about all that stuff and reading you know of Stephen Adewel essays on like the strategy stuff like the Riverlands got fucking wrecked like most their their troops like got killed or captured or dispersed like very early on and it kind of shapes what

comes after that like I don't remember like oh yeah they they lost like thousands of guys probably before things really got kicked off yeah definitely it's terrible it's only going to get worse. I mean, the book could come out at any time. And, yeah, as you said, Chloe Taun is unconcerned.

Lord Frey's not going to move until the victor is clear. And Jason Malster cannot stand alone. Who says this? Because he's too sexy to stand alone. I know. I was like, is Kathleen Stark the one thing? He can't stand alone. He needs me.

Not my ship. I don't have time to talk about it. Keep going. Once River Run falls, they will bend the knee. unless the Stark's or the errands intervene. Tyrion doubts that the errands will act, but believes the Stark's may. Tywin counters that Eddard Stark

wroughts in the dungeon beneath the Red Keep, and his son is only a boy, unlikely to stomach war. Tyrion learns the truth of King's Landing, which is that the reason why they could imprison Eddard is because Robert is dead, and he's like, whoa, that is a surprise.

And Joffrey now reigns, and Tyrion understands what that means. It means that Circe actually holds power. And, like, listen, no, that's not true. You know, you guys were talking about how Tywin's wrong about all this stuff. Tyrion is in an attempt to, like, you know, impress dad. He's, like, doing the same thing.

He's like, oh, well, I don't know if Rob's just a boy, which I mean, honestly, actually true. He is just a boy. He's just a girl. Not us. We're men. And Joffrey, interestingly in this moment, also being underused me because, like, yeah, Rob is mostly unblooded. But turns out he's like a fucking prodigy. and also, honestly, like, you would think that Circe is the one who rules in Kingslanding,

but turns out she, like, raised a monster. So did Robert. Both of them did. Together, they raised a monster, and Joffrey proves mostly uncontrollable until, like, Tyrion and Tywin arrive. And I think arguably, like, this kind of speaks to, like, what you were saying, Chloe, about the way that Tyrion's been really sheltered, right? Like, I mean, yeah, it's unbelievable that, like, teenagers could be doing all this anyway,

but it is, like, shows Tyrion's, like, lack of perspective in terms of... of what can be accomplished when someone's thrust into that position. Yeah, like he underestimates Rob like a lot of people, which like he said, he is a prodigy, but then also like just kind of underestimating how much chaos someone like Joffrey can cause

just by virtue of being a like extremely unwell little shit. Like, just how much... I am living through that time. Yeah, yeah. Stuff just happens. Like, I think that that is the the ultimate

ultimate victory for the things just happen theory of history where Tyrion and Tywin are both unprepared for like, oh shit, fuck, like what? That doesn't make sense. They can't pivot. They can't pivot. Yeah. Well, Tywin can also always pivot to the war crimes button. He does love smash on that fucking thing.

Blow it all up. Beep, beep, beep. It's got all he's got. It's so funny to... Oh my God, shit. It's also funny that Tyrion has an opinion at all. Like, he hasn't been to war. It's like dudes that, like, don't play sports, but really, really, really like sports. And they know the strategy so much.

And you're like, oh, have you ever played? And you're like, no. I love the game. And I get that. But, like, it's guys that are really into it. And, like, that's Tyrion. He's like, he's been waiting at the door to the clubhouse. to be let in for so many years.

And in a way, like, that's what a game of throw... Like, the great betrayal in his life isn't even really she. It's that his father shut him out from the masculine society he was finally being accepted into. He goes to war finally after this, right? Like, that's a big deal. He's freaking out. He's like, I've never been to war.

And Braun's like, oh, it's fine. I'll walk you through it. And, like, this battle, right? Again, huge. Like, never been allowed to do this. Like, he's finally getting a lot of... little almost respect in his father's eyes, and then he gets shut out. And like you said, Eliana, he's just copying his dad. He's just like a kid wearing his dad's clothes that are

too big for him and don't fit, and they never would have. And it reminds me even a little bit in a Game of Thrones, the show, which the books were based on. Um, Sons's dresses in Kingslanding were made just slightly baggy, kind of to imply that they were, like dresses or hammy downs or things that Searcy gives her that don't quite fit her yet, right? Like almost like she's playing dress up. She's playing dress up in an outfit that isn't for her in the end. And that's kind of how Tyrion is too.

Yeah. And also like, I mean like it's interesting because again, like shit just goes awry for Tyrion from like here on. He was like kind of in a bit of a battle. It's not the same at all as like what Rob does like when they were in the veil. But from then on, like, Tyrion's just, like, in a bunch of battles, like, all the fucking time. He's just, like, in the middle of chaos and fighting. And it's, like, I feel like that's not supposed to be your life when you're a highborn like that.

Like, you're supposed to be, like, sitting cushy. And, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, it is, it is telling that, like, everyone else on that, like, mountain escapade getting into those fights is either, I mean, him as a captive. Katlin is, like, you know, the author of, like, this desperate political kidnap. And then everyone else is like fucking cell swords and minor soldiers and like a woad. And again, and I guess Rodrick like Catlin's bodyguard. But yeah, like no one else important is getting involved in that shit. It's just, it's just Tyrion Lannister, like, looking at the camera like, you're probably wondering how I got here.

And we're like, nope, yeah. That's how I think of his associate storyline. He's like in the middle of battles from here on out. That's what I'm saying. And he's just like, how the fuck did I get here? He's just like, running across. careful what you wish for. He's like running across probably to like some other like area.

He's trying to escape. He's like, I gotta get the fuck out. I hate it here. Dragon fire hitting the sand around him. Yeah. And he's like, gotta get the fuck out. He's like, why didn't she poison the wells? That's what daddy would have done.

Daddy. Daddy. Well. Tywin tells Tyrion that if he proves useful, he'll be given command. And oh my God, command. Vance and Piper are raiding the Westerlins across the Red Fork, and Berrick Dondarian and Thoros of Mir harassed foraging parties, thanks to Ned Stark's orders. He asks if Tyrion can handle it without making a mess. Actually, I'd never thought about, like, the alternate timeline where Tyrion does get this command.

Instead of being handed the king, he gets command of the Riverlands Theater. And then the next two books are just him having letter after letter like, no, Berwick is dead for sure. time. Like, I watched it happen. This is bullshit. Like, him just trying to contend with whatever's happening out there, and Tywin just, like, reading the letters, like, oh, oh. He would fail,

for sure. He might have a couple easy wins, but he would probably fail. Oh, yeah. Tyrion boasts he will spank them in battle if he meets them, but first he must honor his promises, which he throws out there. These are very simple promises. Easy, easy. You know, just like the frankincense

and the mer. 3,000 helms and hobergs, swords, pikes, spearheads, maces, battle axes, gauntlets, gorgets, grieves, breastplates, and wagons to carry it all. That won't be too much, will it, Daddy. Thank you. Money, please. Money, please. It's 3,000 helmets, Michael. What could it cost? $25.000. This entire thing actually really is kind of righteous jumpstones coated going out to their damn being like I'm starting this thing Also I just wanted to include the cheese all right because it's only good Like he climbed down from his chair and waddled to the sideboard Where a wheel of bained white cheese sat surrounded by fruit I'm like mm-hmm

And I I am glad you brought that up because like this is a recurring motif And I think you're in the scene a lot more throughout the Terry and reread Like He is constantly about to eat and then something happens and he can't especially when he's around his family.

Oh, that's. And like, it's more and more like Tywin denying Tyrion bodily pleasures. And like it's not always, sometimes it is like Tywin going out of his way, but it's just this is just the shit that happens to Tyrion. Like he can't enjoy himself when he's around the

Lannister. Like even eating some goddamn cheese. My man just wants his cheese. Yeah. He's just been out there. Yeah. Yeah. He's just been out there. you know. And to be fair, Brat rarely living. This time, the reason he doesn't get to eat his cheese

is his own fault. Yeah, absolutely. Yep, because they are interrupted, because Shaga bursts in, hurling the captain of the guard across the room, snapping his sword into and lumbering forward. Little red cake. When next you bear steel

on Shaga, son of Dolph, I will chop off your manhood and roast it in the fire. What? No goats? Tyrion said, taking a bite of cheese. The other clansman followed Shaga into the common room. Brong with them. The cell sword gave Tyrion a rueful shrug. Oh, that's the line, by the way.

Sorry, that's the line that he said earlier. Remember that Tyrion said to Shaga and them that he's like, well, then we'll chop off his manhood and roasted in the fire. Yeah. And he's always like, and I'll, a goat if I can find one later on swimming. He's like, what? No goats. Tywin Reacting

The line says that he reacts like Cool as Snow And again I feel like this is very Circe-esque characterization Because in this book Specifically our interactions with her Especially from the Starc POVs

Are as an ice queen Until we get to know her better Hmm Snow Ned Snow Yeah I think I had some news Does this mean Tywin's a bastard Is that what it's saying?

Stop I think that's Red it. You gotta get on Reddit. Yeah, and I talked about this a little before, but just, yeah, Tywin's, like, it's so hard to think about Tywin's interiority and, like, what is behind that mask of, like, of iciness. It's, like, there is obviously calculation stuff happening there, but, like, I, just, this is not a man in touch with his own feelings enough to, to narrate a point of view. Yeah, absolutely not.

Yeah. I just think it's, yeah, it's crazy that. That guy was like, the Greeks and the Romans didn't do it. I'm like, we literally have books of them doing it. Like, there's so much precedent and also, like, to not understand that human nature is to do that is stupid. Like, what do you think we invented being human stupid bitches? I mean, yeah. Just like, that's literally the thing we passed down from the Greeks.

There used to be nothing but self-reflection back in the day. That's true. There was nothing else to do. No doom scrolling. There was no TikTok. No TikTok for the youths like me. Yeah. Damn. But, yeah, anyways, I just also kind of think it's funny that there's no reaction from either Taiwan or Tyrion to this display.

They're like, hmm. Tyrion introduces Zad to his new friends, joking, may I keep them? They don't eat much. And Kevin calls them savages and Kahn declares that they're free men. And free men sit on all war councils by rights. Chal asks who the lion lord is, while Timit says they're both old men. Yeah, get them. Tywin cops.

Tim, it's like, who are these fucking boobers? Yeah, for real. He's like, they don't know TikTok. Yeah. Yeah, Tywin calms the room down. Kevin has his hand on his sword. Like, shit is about to get real. And he asks Tyrion to introduce his guests.

Chella, Khan, Shaga, Ulf, Timet, and Braun are all introduced. And then Tyrion gives the greatest introduction yet. to his father. May I present my lord father. Tywin, son of Titos of House Lannister, Lord of Castorley Rock, Warden of the West, shield of Lannisport,

and once and future hand of the king. Lord Tywin rose, dignified and correct. Even in the West, we know the prowess of the warrior clans of the mountains of the moon. Yeah, so there's that once-in-feature language. right with once in future hand of the king which is absolutely like I think speaks to what you're saying like that's an intentional kind of nod and like inspiration for george in regards to how he's writing

tywin and honestly like i do think that tywin is showing great courtesy here he's showing really good he's giving good politicking and then also later on like timid says this thing of like a promise of silken steel i'm like oh that's his like favorite romantic see series and oh it would be a good one it would be a good one it would be a good one. Aposas. Aposass. Apos ass. Yeah. Tewan asks why they have come down from their strongholds and Trian is about to explain how he promised to reduce the veil to a smoking wasteland, but a messenger enters bringing word from Sir Adam Marbrand. The Starcost has begun moving down the causeway. Lord Tywin Lanister did not smile. Lord Tywin never smiled, but Tyrion had learned to read his father's pleasure all the same,

and it was there on his face. So the wolfling is leaving his den to play among the lions, he said in a voice of quiet satisfaction. That's, like, it's first book dialogue, kind of, but I absolutely believe Tywin talks like this. Like, he, this is how he said shit. He literally just walks around saying shit like this, like the corporate lingo.

Like he walks around with, like, just like, just like these buzzwords ready to roll and he says it right and people believe him and then he keeps doing it. He can't keep getting away with this. Well he won't but you know also like he's walking around and he's like you know

sometimes when the water cooler's too hot you've just got to stop pressing Tyrion, you know what I'm saying? That's always been my war motto. What? What fuck are you saying dad? And he like also like the using the heraldry thing I think I

tweeted this many years ago, but like, most Westerosi nobility would understand what furries are, if you told them about it. They would pretend not to, but Tywin in the back of his head would be like, oh, okay, yes, there's a word for a persona, yes, that's what this is. He definitely has them like, yes, I am a lion. I represent Leonide Valley. Everyone except for Stannis, Stannis would not get it. Stannis would be like, no, there are men and animals. This is vile He's anti-fersona. But, yeah, Tywin Yifts. That's what Brand's storyline is about.

Also yiffing, yeah. In Veramir. And John. Yiff, yeah. Tywin orders Sir Adam to fall back and not engage the Northerners until they arrive. Kevin argues that they're well situated here. They should let them come and break their numbers against the pits, spikes in the Ford, but Tywin doesn't want Rob to lose his car.

courage when he sees their numbers, and the sooner they deal with the Stark boy, the sooner they can deal with Stanis Barathean. He tells Kevin to send word to Janie that he's going to fight Rob Stark. This is kind of a fun tidbit to read here knowing that a lot of medieval battles, quite a few really decisive ones, happened in part because the losing side forced the issue, because of Taiwan's logic, basically, they didn't want the enemy to retreat and they'd have to deal with them later. That was basically why Agincourt happened, and either Poitiers or Gracie, I forget, but they had English victories in the Hundred Years' War, which they lost as a war. But the famous battles they won, two of them at least happened because the French were like, shit, we got to make these English fight before they get away, and then the French lost. So, Tywin, I mean, he doesn't exactly lose, but he, yeah, no, he loses, more or less, like, and part of it is from forcing this battle and getting engaged in. this thing that's like, again, underestimating Rob Stark,

not understanding what's happening here. He didn't think anyone could fool him. Rob literally pulls his fucking move that he pulled on the gates of fucking King's Landing. Like, Rob pulls that shit on him, and he's like, made you look, bitch. Rob. Made you fucking look. Open the gates.

Oh, here I come. Just hits him with like a fucking three dribble combo, hezzy between the labs. Stack back. Boom. Boom. Breaks his ankles. Amielan expose him

all the way to the hoop it's amazing yeah no literally it's so good he put it in the hoop like slam oh that's a classic if anyone want to join them

I don't remember enough of the lyrics that's how I beat Shaq Shaq yeah like boom put it through the hoop like that's sad actually about that that man

yeah that is sad that is sad. No, very also, like, he has to make an end of it, to your point. Like, not saying the red wedding's inevitable, you don't have to murder a bunch of people, but, like, also, that was more vengeance after he lost, like, the wound was open. Yeah. I don't have to do that, but just like it explains why he did. Yeah, just like everything, Tywin solving his, like, personal beefs and weird hangups and, like, manifesting it as important state policy. Well, you know what they say

Pride goeth before the fall Yeah Well finally Tywin addresses the men of the mountain Calling them warriors without fear And asking them to ride against his enemies And be handsomely rewarded But he's like

With Arquine And he's like Why would we need the father's promise When they have the sons And so he closed the chapter out With I said nothing of need Lord Tywin replied.

My words were courtesy, nothing more. You need not join us. The men of the winterlands are made of iron and ice, and even my boldest knights fear to face them. Oh, deftly done, Tyrion thought, smiling crookedly. The burned men fear nothing. Timit, son of timid, will ride with the lions. Wherever the burned men go,

the stone crows have been there first, Khan declared hotly. We ride as well Shaga, son of Dolf We'll chop off their manhoods And feed them to the crows We will ride with you, Lion Lord Chella daughter of Czech agreed

But only if your half-man son Goes with us He has bought his breath with promises Until we hold the steel He has pledged us His life is ours Lord Tywin turned his gold-flect eyes On his son

Joy, Tyrion said with a resigned smile. See, that one amazing. Just like him. Oh, whoa, but just like him, that small smile at the end. Because he's like, I know my dad is like happy about the war, though. He likes having something to battle because he's an empty prick with nothing else. War is what he has. The war is in his head.

The war is outside of him. But right there. Tyrion also is like, oh, no, now I'm in. I'm blooded. Whoa. Man shit. Yeah. Yeah. And like we see like later on that like Tyrion does enjoy being in battle. Like he does get the the battle fever that Jamie's told him about. He's proud of his like, he's, he is a legitimately good wartime hand of the king.

Like and, and his, you know, this is a good example of like what his life is, like, finding. as soon as he's set up to fail. This is getting ahead of this chapter a lot, but I think, like, Tywin in part makes him hand of the king to, you know, do the classic maneuver of, like, let him make everyone miserable so that when I come in and take over my job, like, everyone will love me. And the fact that Tyrion actually succeeds in a lot of ways

is revolting to his dad. And he has to take that away and take all the credit away as soon as possible. and this is where it starts like Tywin's setting it off It's like fatalistic Because for Tywin it's like the prophecy that Circe has But for Tywin it's his prophecy

Tiri it is Tyrion keeps fucking coming true Every time he turns around a corner there's Tyrion And guess what at the very end there he is too Yeah that's true It's Circe's actual fears But about him What you're saying about how he's set up to fail

Right as a hand and like For Tywin to swoop in It's interesting because we talk a lot about how Tyrion is like in this, he's a gender abomination, right? Like as our friend Lowe would describe him, he's treated and like his body is feminized in all these ways of like people feel they can do whatever they want with his body. He doesn't get access to manhood in that same way. Yet he is still considered a man. He doesn't play the gender roles of being a woman. And yet what you're saying that happens to him as he becomes Hand of the King is this.

phenomenon that like I'm sure many of you have heard of the glass ceiling when it comes to women in the workplace. There's a terminology for this now called the glass cliff in which during a time when the company expects like, oh, maybe things aren't going to go so well or like it's a very precarious, shaky situation. Oh, let's just put a woman in charge, right? And then she, she set up to fail, you know? And this is why women will never have women presidents ever again. Ever again. I don't like the way you spoke to me, Amy. You are Bible and never have another woman present. But he's on a glass cliff, which I think is really interesting based off of the way his gender acts in the story.

I also think, like, you know, speaking of women leaders, the line here where Taiwan goes, ride with me against my enemies, and you shall have all my son promised you and more. There's just something about the essence of this line, this construction that reminds me a lot of Denei's as pep talks, right? as she promises people and what awaits them in Westeros and, like, to join her cause. But also, I think she's a natural, right, like at all of this kind of talk, this politicking, the way that Taiwan does it, right? He appeals to the Mountain Clan's sense of pride regarding how well they fight and plays up the ferocity of the Northmen.

And Dineries does this to an extent, like, she balances it with like, I'm a young girl, and a little in the ways of war, but also sometimes she will bring the other side of that as well and like perform bravado as we see. Like she's very good at this. And I do think that Tyrion will recognize this sort of like innate skill in Denarius and be very impressed, see the way that she does handle this sort of politicking like Tywin does.

Yeah. And more flexibly that she can inhabit those different roles of like of vulnerability, of humor, like, shit, you know, Tywin is, like, this is an example of Taiwan performing deft politics, but it's like it is kind of within his sphere, within his one move of like how would you know the lord of you know titles titles etc

everything terian's end how would that guy handle this because that's all he can be and it works here he gets a bunch of auxiliaries that he can send off to get killed with his son so cool cool well and you have the the de Nairos thing like she

it's authentic right like she actually means it when she says it she believes it and means it And I think that's so different. You have Tyrion who's grown up in a world where, I mean, Tywin didn't mean that. Tywin didn't mean any of this. None of this was authentic. When you see, when he says that, they see right through it. They say, why would we need your promises?

Your son already told us. And for Tywin, he just said it because it's a courtesy. It's a literal courtesy that he says, and it gets him farther with people every time he says it. Like, he knows how to get other men to like him. He knows how to get through to another lord to someone that he's negotiating with. And here, he slips. And so for Tyrion maybe to like hook up with Danny eventually and see that is going to be so great to see something that's authentic and real and realize like maybe there is another

world. Like I grew up with only one thing that was true. But maybe my father's way wasn't right. And maybe eventually it will lead him to some remorse for as many crimes. I don't know. maybe not but it's just interesting to see like of course he's going to follow her and respect her he's going to be like oh my god she's actually the real deal my father really was nothing like daddy i love you daddy i hate you i don't know outsource it to my therapist but really like just like really

great to see how the world will change for him and of course like all of this is coming off of the last dany chapter where drogo pledges to give her the throne it will do this thing for you Calisi will give you this throne I Drogo son of Barbara one of my best performances I think about it a lot I was thinking of like you and I say that you know to each other

I will do this thing for you I'll do this thing for you I gotta start doing that that needs to be part of my vocabulary next time I'm like taking out the compost just like I see the rumors of your demise were unfounded I gotta do that one every day we really got to get some of these into our vernacular.

Not often that I find myself thinking, I need to reference Ace Woff more in my daily life, but like maybe I do. I don't. I literally don't. That in Archer is like, it's a problem for me. And I never notice it.

Actually, sometimes I'll have a, I'll throw an episode on him. I'll be like, oh shit, is that where that comes from? Oh my God. Ruben, any final thoughts and where we can find you online? before we close out here? Yeah, I mean, you can find me right now just on Blue Sky.

I am Lies and Perfety. Great source of like when I was first connecting with Chloe online many years ago, it was based on like, who tweeted that? Just the people getting confused and tweeting at the other person. Yeah, I was. hilarious all the time. Yeah, very funny stuff. But yeah, that is my main online home for thoughts now.

As far as closing thoughts, yeah, I mean, I was really excited to come on for this chapter because I would have been excited to come on for any chapter. but for this one just like it's like eight or nine pages it was quite short and it was really an excuse we made a lot of it but like it was an excuse to kind of take

an overarching view on a character who I think is like in the way that only great fictional characters can be a huge piece of shit who I hate who is fascinating to me like Taiwan it really is one of the great all-time villains and I think in large part because of the ways

that George has set him up with all this impressiveness and all this image and all this stuff that we get smacked in the face with as we're starting this chapter. But in the end, I will leave the final word on Tywin to another of speculative fiction's great shitty dads. Tywin Lannister, you are mediocre. Yeah. That's so true. And that's worse than being like bad.

It is. He's mid. You're doomed. You are doomed to it. Amen. Love it. we have had a blast having you on thank you for coming thank you so much we will definitely be linking below a few of the things talked about today so check out the description and thank your local eleana eliana where the fuck can they find us online well well you can find us on social media at twitter.com slash girls gone canon where i guess that's still our name even though we're rebranding um and also on blue sky You can find us there.

You can send us an email at Girls Gone Cannon. That's C-A-N-O-N-N-A-N-A-G-M-G-E-M-E-M-E-M-A-N-G-G-A-N-G-G-A-N-G-G-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-GARL-CAN-GARL-CAS, think you should listen. You can catch Girls Gone Cannon on any of the following streamers on Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Spotify, Overcast, Apple Podcasts, IHeartRadio, Audible, and Amazon podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the Thundertier above, you have access to a Discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the Discord, You get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shit posting channel, fashion hour. There are multiple channels for historic materials, a song of ice and fire.

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where we just hang out, relax, sometimes game, doodle. Yeah, the whole nine yards. So we would love to have you again, Patreon.com slash girls gone canon. C-A-N-O-N. As always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your host, Aliana.

And thank you. Thank you for, yeah, letting us be hosts tonight, Rubin. Thank you for being, for letting us be here. Thank you. I'm gone canon. So much for coming on the podcast that I woke up and had. I will That is how it happens

That's how it happens When you're a man You just wake up And you have a podcast It's just how it works I actually literally think it's like that Yes This is not my beautiful house

This is not my beautiful podcast Oh my god Same as it ever was Same as it ever was And now we Yes We got the unknown lyrics I don't know lyrics.

That kind of sounds like the song. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thanks kidding.