Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 36 - ACOK Theon Intro/I

Episode Date: January 25, 2019

Theon Greyjoy is finally coming home. Intro by Anton Langhage   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

Hello and welcome to episode 36 of Girls Gone Canon, Theon in a Clash of Kings, intro and chapter one. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor or at www.lizandarborgold.com. It's still not old. I am Eliana, another one of your hosts. Very excited about my co-host domain still. And you can find me, though, on the internet, Arithmetric, on Twitter, or on the Maester Monthly podcast, or on the Asaga Vice and Fire Sobred as GlassTableGirl. I've heard of you. Sorry.

Sorry. We are on our sad squid baby. Yeah, what was it called? Like a... I forgot. Shale looked it up. She gave us a paralarve. Our paralarve.

Paralarve. Yeah, he's like a paralegal, but larva. A paralegal, but a larva. Okay. Yeah, he's a paralarve. Yeah. I don't know. I'm kind of sad to see Sansa go, but at the same time, I'm kind of, I don't know, I'm ready for something new.

I am. I am. And I was actually super excited that we got a message on Patreon from, I believe the name of the person is like Dalice, right? Yes, Dalice. Dalice? Dallas? I don't know. Tell us how to say your name. But we're just trying. Dallas. Maybe it's Dallas. Maybe. The point is, she said, I'm starting to see it. I'm starting to see the order, like the logic behind the order, how we're doing these chapters. And I was just like fist pumping in the background like, yes, finally, someone gets it. It's making sense to people. People are seeing it. And on Twitter, we did talk about somebody asked if we were going to do Daenerys because there was a humorous tweet.

Somebody asked if we were going to do Jon. And I was like, no, we decided to skip him. She won't let me skip him. We're going to do all of them. Equally. We're equally going to do every character. Wait a second. We're going to do every character as much or as little as we want. But also someone responded, are you going to do every character? Wait a second. We're going to do every character as much or as little as we want.

But also someone responded, are you going to do Daenerys though? And Eliana rightfully responded for us that, do we not low-key have Dany content every episode? We do. We do. It's hard not to. Something Tarth Forever, the Evenstar on Twitter said, said that so much of Dany's analysis seems meta

in ways that require an exploration of other POVs first. We need the shape of what George is building before we can understand Dani, which I think is really important. I think that way about a couple characters that we haven't done yet, and I think it's good to lay this foundational work. And Sansa, we could have pushed her, but at the same time, it's our podcast. Yeah, my partner, he thought that we were going to do Sansa towards the end because of a save our favorite for last. And I was like, no, we're going to be doing this for like four years. If we did that, we wouldn't get to Sansa to like, I don't know, 2022.

We'd grow resentful. That's true. So we're going to be like on the 12th Tyrion episode and I'm going to be bitching so much. And you guys are going to be like, remember the good days when we used to have Sansa and we're going to remember them too. And we're all going to have that together. Yeah, we're here. It's a journey. It's a journey together.

And this journey has blown us into Pyke today. It has. It's our first time seeing Pyke in the books. We were like, wow, this chapter's very long and dense and that's partially because we're coming to a new place imagine that we are the game of thrones map and at the beginning of every episode and like now pike is building from the ground all cool and stuff dorn is a little different because he breaks it up into several chapters and we do get asha, of course, and Eren eventually.

But for Thion, I mean, you really, this is where you get Pike just from him, straight forward from the Ironborn POV, just boom. He didn't really have to bust it out into four different chapters yet. He does, which is interesting also to build that lore and world building. Indeed. And so to start off with our little para-larvae, we have a quote that we think sums up the first part of Theon's story very well. It is as if I were a stranger here, Theon thought. Nothing has changed, and yet everything has changed. Theon Greatjoy was born in 278 or 279 AC, which puts him somewhere around 19 when we meet him in

a Game of Thrones. He is at the time a hostage of House Stark, which I guess hostage can mean a lot of things in this story. He's treated a little bit better than Sansa as hostage, read a lot better, but not quite as well as a real son would be treated. He's been a hostage slash ward of Ned Stark's since 289 AC, around 10 years old. And that means that when Theon arrives at House Stark, he's a little bit older than all of the kids who are there. He's a huge contrast to Jon's Winterfell court foil, right? We can kind of see that especially in his class chapters versus John's Game of Thrones chapters back at Winterfell Theon was actually named for Theon Stark a Winterfell king the Hungry Wolf is his name which is pretty fitting especially when Theon overreaches himself a little

bit in a clash of kings but the Hungry Wolf has some interesting story details himself right he defended the north during the Andal invasions. House Bolton was his ally, which is a very interesting little touch here. He defeated the Andal Argos Seven Star in the Battle of the Weeping Water, sailed to the coast of Andalos with Argos' body on the prow of his ship, Very Red Wedding, burned Andal villages, killed hundreds, he captured tower houses and a sept. He displayed those that he killed's heads on spikes to warn would-be attackers. He conquered the Three Sisters and Rills and even helped the Night Swatch against the Wildlings,

but one of his biggest accomplishments was expelling the Iron Men from the northern shores of Bear Island in Cape Kraken, slaying Harrog Hor, the King of the Iron Isles' son, Ravos the Raper. It's just Davos with an R. I know, some of these, like, some of the history in general, I'm like, George, you just, you took that word and you put it at the front instead of the end. Or, like, maybe it's a

generator, right? Some of this is just a word generator. I hope so. While Theon kind of tends to deflect his hostage fostering status. He wasn't ill-treated, right? He was raised among the Starks normally. He had lessons from Maester Lewin. He was taught arms by Roderick Cassel himself, the Master at Arms. He ignored Jon due to his bastard status. So of course he thought he was above him. And he even gets to join in during the king's hunt at Winterfell. He ends up becoming one of Rob's trusted advisors. For a time, of course.

For a time. But, of course, yes, there is a logic to the order that we have created. And there's a reason that we put Theon after Sansa. created and there's a reason that we put theon after sansa naturally as many of you know both of them experienced suffering and torture at the hands of the people who kept them and by that no we don't mean the story i'm definitely obviously talking about ramsey and both theon and sansa end up coming face to face and being the victims of some of the biggest and cruelest villains in A Song of Ice and Fire, Joffrey and Ramsay. But in terms of their hostage situation, yes, Theon is still a hostage. And we see that he's actually never let that go throughout this chapter, because a prisoner still isn't free, no matter how well they're treated. Like Sansa herself begrudges Littlefinger for bringing her to the Vale when she was promised home and she understands that the Eyrie and the Vale like King's Landing

is just another cage however comfortable it is and that's how Theon seems to feel towards Ned Stark we're going to dig into this more a little in this chapter but however much Ned may have tried to be his father Theon knew he was hostage and he was the coin paid for Balon Greyjoy's good behavior. Yeah, not a lot of good came out of the Greyjoy Rebellion, that's for sure. That was a bad idea. I'm excited to dive into Theon's identity throughout this entire story. I mean, we have a lot ahead of us up till the end of Dance and, of course, the Winds of Winter chapters. He goes from having his Greyjoy identity torn from him

when Eddard lands on his shores to then also having his Starkjoy identity, we'll call it, ripped from him at Ramsay's hand and knives. He's been forever searching for himself. Theon's never been able to be himself. I find it really, really interesting as we go through these chapters, seeing the difference between Northern life and between the Ironborn culture. There's a lot of pride in both of them, right?

There's a lot of similarities between the two. They both have their own old way. The old way for Ironborn is taking their glory, their woman, their gold, and praying to the drowned gods. But the North isn't really too far off with their religion and old way. The old way is honorable, though, in the North isn't really too far off with their religion in Old Way. The Old Way is honorable, though, in the North. It's seen as looking the person in the eye and taking their life for yourself. So the man who passes the sentence swings the sword, paying the iron price, right? Similar. It's similar in the way the Old Way, the Ironborn have of taking their riches in plunder,

but of course having to be the one to do that and be you know the one to pass that sentence and soar the drown god believes in drowning their men to see if they're chosen to come back with seawater pumping in and out of their lungs and also believes in blood sacrifice of thralls and concubines to wake the drown god's powers which we know the old gods may or may not slash definitely do support blood sacrifices i mean it literally feeds their trees they look like they are crying blood yeah that's like their whole thing is blood blood and trees i just jojen paste is real yeah i mean i used to be like on the fence and then he died in the show and i was like i mean it's real's real. It's real. Time to wake up, Eliana.

Yeah, at that point I was like, it's real. Yeah, I think that these are some great points you made about the similarities between the two and I'm excited to see more of what you have to say about the comparisons between the cultures. It seems like the story is just telling us also that hard... Was this in this story? Was it in the different story? The idea that where they're like hard, I don't know, lands breed hard men or something like that.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Like a similar idiom that gets passed around in the story. For sure. Aegon I shut King Hord down, right? The Iron King. The Ironborn were mostly peaceful between then and the Greyjoy Rebellion. There were obviously some reavings on and off. But all that changed when when Balon rebelled because he wanted to restore the old way.

Stannis Baratheon actually helped stop the Iron Fleet, and Robert Baratheon's reign was still strong. This is basically where Ned swooped in as a fake dad, taking Theon as his ward, which, as Eliana mentioned, is just a blood debt to keep Balon in his good behavior. And so, with the starks catlin tells rob to go together with theon when theon heads to the iron islands but rob refuses putting

his trust in theon and saying that theon is also his own true brother and this idea of who his family of course manifests throughout a song of ice and fire in a lot of different ways but really blooms in theon's story yeah especially in theon one whose family don't know all in a bunch of his clash chapters yeah i mean stuff with asha yes exactly that's the next that's sort of theon's story though is definitely about this idea of change as well as family both internally and externally we see that relationship of change between those two parts of a person and his chapter is open with that realization that while he had been gone from home for like these 10 years the world just carried on

without him and it just kept going and pike and the people there changed in that decade that the was at winterfell and without realizing it the end himself has changed because usually people do that when they're 10 years old and then become 19 puberty and all all sorts of things happen and of course in theon's larger storyline he changes again when he's out of sight from the story in a storm of swords and a feast for crows he changes and comes back to us unfamiliar as unfamiliar as pike is to him as a character named reek and of course that change between theon and reek is super clear at first you're like who the hell is this new person then you're like oh oh damn it's theon oh dip oh dip and the story of course

asks a deeper question than just can a man change because we see it happen to maybe like can a man grow and we see theon striving to become someone with courage in a dance with dragons because he's definitely not that kind of person in clash and he might never have been able to get there if not for these things not that it makes it right that those things happen but it'll be interesting to see if he can and how he would overcome all of these different challenges yeah i think it really adds depth to his character. And of course, we can't lose sight that Theon is, much like we've explored in characters like Quentin,

the son and the heir, right? He's the last alive son of the current ruling Greyjoy family with all that legacy weighing down upon him, right? He definitely wants to please his dad. He's looking for some sort of glory he's really looking for home is what he's looking for somewhere anywhere poor baby boy his older brothers marin and roderick died in the grayjoy rebellion roderick was slain by jason mallister and marin was also slain in the rebellion theon was never really

fond of them especially marinn made very cruel jokes and that's all Theon remembered. So interesting. Just interesting that he is the last one and he's our soft baby squid boy who's a little bit of a pompous arrogant prat, but that goes away pretty fast. Yes. Before we get there,

we have a lightning round, of course. We're going to start off with, you know, the book Game of Thrones, where like a whole fucking book happened. We've been through it. You guys have read it. This is a reread. We're doing a reread podcast. In the prologue of A Clash of Kings,

Maester Cressen mistrusts the new religion taking hold on Dragonstone and dies, thinking he's protecting one of the boys he loved and cared for, Stannis Baratheon. Oh, my God, Maester Cressenheon. Oh my god, these are impressive. That chapter is sad as fuck. I know. So sad. And it really paints Stannis' whole plot in a dark way.

Like, it's very dark. It's very sad. It's just sad. I'm sad. Poor grandpa. Oh my god. Alright, sorry. You got emotional. And there's that part about Renly that, you know, the look at me, I'm a king. Like, Renly always played it, being a king.

He loved them both, and he was all like, I'm doing it for my son. Yeah, my sad son. That's how Mr. Creston feels about Stannis. My sad son, Stannis Baratheon. That's how Mr. Creston feels. Alright, Arya 1. Post-Ned death, Arya travels

north with Yoren, disguised as a boy. Hot Pie, another Night's Watch entrant, steals her sword. So she beats him bloody, and then Yoren beats her in return. Everybody getting beat, but Hot Pie. Sansa 1. Sansa attends Joffrey's birthday party,

which sucks, and saves Ser Dantos Hallard from a horrible fate. Tyrion won. Cersei finally accepts Tyrion as temporary Hand of the King, and Fiori is Lord of Tyrion's mistress. Bran won. Full of shame in his broken body, Bran is having a pretty bad time. Some bratty frays show up, the wolves are locked away, everything sucks. He dreams that night in Summer's eyes. Arya 2. On the road, Yoren refuses to give up one of his recruits to the Gold Cloaks while Arya makes a surprising new friend. Jon 1. Samwell and Jon present their maps to Lord Commander Mormont for ranging, and he tells Jon of Maester Aemon's past.

their maps to Lord Commander Mormont for ranging, and he tells Jon of Maester Aemon's past. Catelyn I. Catelyn watches her eldest son, Rob, display his ruling prowess, but disagrees with some of his choices. A mood. Tyrion II. Tyrion finds a diplomatic way to rid himself of an enemy by sending him to the Night's Watch. Arya III. On the King's Road road aria comes across a pack of wolves yoren thinks they should have taken a ship and that leads us from davos 1 stannis is named azora high davos discovers why stannis favors this new religion oh yes ravos and finally we are here at Theon 1 A Clash of Kings. Salty waves crash upon black, oily rocks, and Theon Greyjoy has returned home for the first time in ten years. I feel like I should have edited this.

I was originally thinking we were doing both chapters, and then I didn't, like, do it. It's okay. He is greeted by his uncle, the Damphper, a devout Drowned God worshipper, and eventually delivered to a meeting that doesn't quite go how he wants it to with his father. So the last time that Theon Greyjoy saw home, it dwindled away as he traveled toward the north in Robert Baratheon's war galley as Ned Stark's ward. This time, he wants to watch his father's castle rise from the sea, the exact opposite. He rides in a ship called Miraham, and everything is so Lovecraftian. Holy crap.

The shore was all sharp rocks and glowering cliffs, and the castle seemed one with the rest, its towers and walls and bridges quarried from the same gray-black stone, wet by the same salt waves, festooned with the same spreading patches of dark green lichen, speckled by the droppings of the same seabirds. The point of land on which the Greyjoys had raised their fortress had once thrust like a sword into the bowels of the ocean, but the waves had hammered at it day and night until the land broke and shattered thousands of years past all that remained were three barren barren islands and a dozen towering stacks of rock that rose from the water like the pillars of some sea god's temple while the angry waves foamed and crashed among them it's so interesting that we're really first introduced to azorahai and clash of kings because if a feast for crows is the laden with imagery of war and just like destruction and

crows feasting on bodies like bodies hanging in the air you know through the riverlands if that's a feast for crows and that's what you think and burnt flesh uh clash is full of azorahai and nisa nisa i mean even just that line the the gray droids had raised their fortress had once thrust like a sword into the bowels of the ocean like it's everywhere it's littered in this book like we get it azor ahai is being introduced it's important it's a yeah it feels like a very prophetic book i think that's such a good point and i haven't really thought about how it's so ingrained in Clash. You have like the comet.

And then, of course, the House of the Undying happens here. And as you said, Melisandre shows up. Yes, she exists. Magic just really comes like it was obviously there in the story, but it's like really, really, really there now. Yeah, Bran really, this is where Bran, you know, gets his prophetic powers coming into light and there's a lot happening here i do think there's a lot of imagery we can read into for theon when you read catelyn's chapter a bit before this she doesn't trust the ongoing on his own and rob does we the reader probably know cat's right and this chapter does detail why uh while ned did raise theon much like his own, he didn't beat him, he fed him, he gave him an

education, he doesn't really have a real home to belong to, much like Jon Snow. I mean, him going home, this isn't his home anymore. He's visiting, he's between homes, he has no home. He feels relief at not seeing the direwolf bear down on him in this one line at the end of that passage, and here at least the direwolf of Stark did not fly above casting its shadow down upon the Greyjoy Kraken. So he's always been made to feel small. And here he doesn't have to feel that anymore. He's hopeful. He feels free. And it's a little bit like Sansa in a way catapulted into a shitty situation after shitty situation, even on that first day of freedom freedom even if it's going to another bad situation he gets to breathe after escaping one of his captors finally and of course during

this trip theon has decided to cozy up to the captain's daughter and she asks him if the castle looks the same as when he left it theon inside thinks that it kind of looks smaller but muses that maybe that's just the distance. And of course, this is our first hint that things are going to be different from the way that Theon remembers Pike. The captain of his ship was not ironborn. He was from Old Town, so they didn't really chance to sail too close to Pike since the ship and crew didn't feel like they could handle it. I feel like there's a lot we could dig into with sailors and learn a lot from just separating their text in A Song of Ice and Fire.

There's so many from different ports and Aria's Plot and a lot of other places. I'd love to read a piece on that, on all the different captains and where they're from in A Song of Ice and Fire and where they go and what they sell and what that means economically. I don't know. I would love to read that. Someone should write that.

Not me. Maybe like Stephen Attawell. He probably don't know i would love to read that someone should write that not me maybe like steven attawell he probably has but i would love to read about that he should do that he'd be good at that yeah the thing about like what they mean but if in terms of just cataloging if someone could do some of that legwork like tom marius t-h-o-m-a-e-r-y-s on like reddit he was the one who put together that spreadsheet of like all of the characters yeah i bet we could filter it yeah interesting we should look at it and download it and filter it i love a good data filter we should try and accept this idea into the captain then asks uh can we make a report and theon says yes yes you can if every captain was a king aboard his own ship as was often said it was small wonder they named the islands the land of 10,000 kings.

And when you have seen your kings shed over the rail and turn green in a storm, it was hard to bend a knee and pretend they were gods. The drowned god makes men, old king Euron Redhand had once said thousands of years ago. But it's men who make crowns. I love this. but it's men who make crowds i love this i i love this line uh because again it's that kind of view of ironborn culture and the similarities with that northern culture and the farther north you go the wilder it gets like this uh and how kings and people follow kings and respect kings and kings get chosen in this culture as we come to learn uh later on at the king's moot kings get chosen

you know by their people who find them brave or find them inspiring so you know it's like how the king in the north is chosen it's someone who leads and inspires it's similar in that kind of fashion i also love theon literally just made the sailor ship captain whatever go in circles outside his dad's house before he's like okay i'm ready let's go in i don't even notice that what if like actually turns out bail on gray joy was waiting for theon earlier downstairs he was like fuck this just went upstairs because he was just tired of waiting oh my god theon's like i gotta be fashionably late for my dad which as we learn later not a good plan yeah don't play. Don't play power games with your dad when he's bailing.

Yeah, definitely not. Theon tells the captain to call for him when they get to Lord's Port, then takes the captain's daughter to the captain's cabin that he took for himself to bed her. Holy shit. Theon then proceeds to talk shit about this girl, like, internally in his head, and how she's dumb, but she has nice tits,

which he plays with through this whole conversation, which is okay i'm gonna level with you real quick men there are machines that you put batteries in you know or you can plug them in the wall these days don't need batteries which is a really limiting thing like all men provide is the sticky stuff and like some hot breath whatever theon i just i need to level with theon here and be like your shit stinks yeah and he's just doing it over what the real yeah just whatever like yeah stinks fucking stinks yeah he thinks he's just so much better than this girl and yeah he tells the girl i don't know we don't know her name what is her name what is her dad's name justice for the captain's daughter and for bear's mom even like the captain's kind of an asshole too but i don't

know his name either i'm just like yes the captain and the captain's daughter i can write a song about that shit yeah anyway dion tells that girl that he was gone for 10 years as ned's ward and he thinks a ward a name a hostage and truth half his days a hostage but no longer his life was his own again and nowhere stark to be seen and then theon like waxes on about how shitty the iron islands are to this girl like is this supposed to impress her i'm not sure but he's like talking shit right like he's like oh like i'm better than this place but what do you mean like you also just talk shit about ned that's all you have you have either the north or you have iron islands theon you don't get both i think that he thinks like the shitter shittier he makes the iron

islands sound the more impressive he sounds for having come from there of like i dealt with this i'm like okay like tougher yeah but especially because he starts talking about how like you know she she talks to him about how she could go ashore with him and she could you know be the his rock wife or salt wife and she's like i could be your salt wife and he's like no those days are no more we have no no glory of fire and sword it's funny and then he's all like oh she's not listening to me this dumb girl it's like i want to listen to you either you just like decided to you like the sound of your own voice yeah anyway theon yeah as you said

says those days are gone and then he decides this is a time instead of having sex i'm going to teach this girl a new thing and he's like this is how you give a blowjob. Oh my god. And then he's just like, thinking about the old way, right? While she's giving him a blowjob. See, Ayn, you don't deserve the internet. The waves surfing the web. I'm trying to make this work with the ship thing.

Oh my god. Okay. It really worked well in my head. So we get a history lesson of how Aegon the Conqueror did away with the Old Way when he burned Black Heron and separated the kingdom of the rivers and the isles

to the Riverlands and the Iron Islands. And then, yes, we get this interesting moment. You'll be splitting it up. Are we roleplaying? Who do you want to be? I'll be whomever you want. Tell me what you want to split this up? Are we roleplaying? Who do you want to be? I'll be whomever you want. Tell me what you want, Chloe.

We can read it aloud at the same time. You be Theon, I'll be the girl. Okay. His climax came on him sudden as a storm, and he filled the girl's mouth with his seed. Startled, she tried to pull away, but Theon held her tight by the hair he filled the girl's mouth with his seed startled she tried to pull away but theon held her tight by the hair let the girl pull away all right afterward she crawled up

beside him did i please my lord well enough he told her it tasted salty she murmured like the sea she nodded i have always loved the sea my lord just throwing this fact out there for everyone it does not taste like the sea dude was this our first sex scene together didn't we do one for ariane i could have sworn we did one for ariane was this our first sex scene like no i as in like read aloud together i mean we did we did it together. Wow. It's our first time. Oh my god, so Theon tries to leave her and we now can see why she is so persistent in having him

take her with him. I don't know, are we doing this again? I'm the girl, I guess, yeah. I can't stay here now. He laced up his britches. Why not? My father, she told him. Once you're gone, he'll punish me, my lord. He'll call me names and hit me.

Theon swept his cloak off its peg and over his shoulders. Fathers are like that, he admitted as he pinned the folds. How do you know? I know, I agree. I'm like, uh, was his dad like this when he was like ten years old? I don't know. And, yeah, he admitted as he pinned the folds with a silver clasp tell him he should be pleased as many times as I fucked you you're likely with child it's not every man who is the honor of raising a king's

bastard she looked at him stupidly so he left her there oh my god anyway while i mean while in the first time right that daughter might have gone with theon willingly there's definitely that element of him using his status to take her which i think is bolstered by the fact that what theon takes the captain's cabin and like the captain gives him dirty looks for sleeping with his daughter the whole time yeah very stannis and uh robert and you know at salise and his wedding yeah only like with your own daughter so it's like he can't say shit because that's that's like first night he just like first nighted it that's exactly what it is because like theon you know he thinks that the captain and the daughter whose names again we

still do not know we only know the name of this ship somehow, ought to be pleased with this honor and, like, having Theon's bastard, and it's, like, definitely reminiscent, as you said, of the first night where, like, the lords and kings would take newly wedded women and then just rape them, and Fire and Blood frames the dragon seeds on Dragonstone much in the same way that Theon

is saying that, oh, you're doubted, you should be honored, and it's said in fire and blood that the people on dragonstone also saw it as an honor to have a valyrian or targaryen bastard but i think that's just gildane's bias like i don't think that's true gildane chill the fuck out no one's happy to just like get popped full of a fucking baby they didn't want yeah yeah no one's happy to be raped okay yeah not at all. And we see from what the daughter says to Theon of what's going to happen, this is the exact reason that Alysanne fought so hard in Fire and Blood for the first night to be abolished.

And it's those same reasons. The captain's daughter fears that her father's going to abuse her if she stays, and it doesn't matter if Theon was the one who wanted her, because she's the one who was to bear all of the consequences afterwards. was a maid and then she married this boy and then the lord and his men-at-arms came to claim her at her first night carried her off and then assaulted her and raped her and when she came back her maidenhead was gone and her husband didn't want her anymore he would he would beat her and when it came forward that she was carrying the lord's child he he just beat her until to the point that she had a miscarriage it's terrible he just would abuse her and never call her anything but whore and like this is what theon is this is the system that theon is being part of it's not good and i

mean of course theon isn't supposed to be likable in these first chapters of his and this is one of the ways that we're shown that like he doesn't give a shit that this is what's going to happen to to the captain's daughter and he doesn't give a shit about the captain who again we still don't know their names he felt entitled to her entitled to the ship to the cabin just because he was highborn and sees himself as an heir and like he thinks that this same hierarchy which he likely learned in the north like holds in these iron islands and of course it's true in the iron islands as well but it's more built on that idea of like strength slash power he feels that if he can take it through force then it's his as opposed to like that birth entitlement it's both of these

things at play yeah it's the two the duality the two sides of theon that we've met so far and i do want to say it's important to point out that while Ned Stark is a good guy and we have discussed, you know, he was more fair with his men. He's still a high lord. Right. And high lords are high lords. Like, yes, he's different. But the Starks aren't like some pseudo social justice warriors that have always been around. Like, go start.

Start. Go start. Like, they did all this stuff, too. You know, like they weren't always like pure and good like they all have blood on their hands you know yes and we get past generations i mean yeah they're just people past generations even brandon wasn't wasn't particularly good yeah he wasn't really a shining star of those three no definitely not and then as theon gets closer to Pyke, we see a couple of different keeps,

like the Botleys, and then we have Theon's memories of Pyke that aren't of a happy childhood, because his memories of Pyke are of Baelon Greyjoy's war. When last he'd seen Lordsport, it had been a smoking wasteland, the skeletons of burnt longships

and smashed galleys littering the stony shore like the bones of dead Levitians. The house is no more than broken walls and cold ashes. After ten years, few traces of the war remained. The small folk had built new hovels with the stones of the old and cut fresh sod for their roofs. A new inn had risen beside the landing, twice the size of the old one, with a lower story of cut stone and two upper stories of timber. The set beyond had never been rebuilt, though.

Only a seven-sided foundation remained where it had stood. Robert Baratheon's fury had soured the Iron Men's taste for the new gods, it would seem. It's surprising how much Greyjoy rebellion information there is in this chapter. Yeah, this chapter alone. And then also, can we talk aboution information there is in this chapter. Yeah, this chapter alone. And then also, can we talk about how metal this is?

It is. Like, skeletons of burnt longships and smashed galleys littering the stony shore like the bones of dead Leviathans. I can't pronounce it. Leviathan. Yeah, I don't, I can't do it. It's not going to happen. It's okay.

Maybe next time. Yeah, like you said, it's super metal. And the Ironborn in general feel super metal. We're going to get to some of their sigils soon. Also feel the same way. I also just love this line that Theon was more interested in ships than gods because the person who greets Theon when he comes to port eventually is Aron Greyjoy. And as we see in A Feast for Crows,

the gods and their followers can be a super powerful political presence in many different parts of the realm. Yes, having them on your side, especially as we see in Feast, having the gods on your side is very important. Yeah. Theon sees a ton of ships at port,

which is a little bit concerning, right? He sees a Tyroshi trading galley, an Ibanez cog for Ib, 50 or 60 longships, Bloodmoon of Winch, Goodbrother's banded black warhorn, Harlaw's silver scythe, and Baelin Greyjoy's great kraken ship.

Seeing all this makes Theon wonder what the hell's going on because of the great kraken ship, because he's like, Dad wasn't gonna unfurl his banners for me. He didn't even send anyone for me. No one cares about you, Theon. Come on. Yeah, I mean, that's rough.

That's a warning sign for sure. For sure. He's like, what is this? Are we in a war? I didn't tell anyone anything. He's planning. And then when I mean, yeah, Theon knows better than to expect Balon Greyjoy when he lands but he expected some sort of lord or like an honor guard together with an honor guard i know right like

they don't do do they even have an honor guard on like the iron islands they don't even have a guard yeah it's like they're just rocks maybe a couple like i mean they'll like send someone but for the most part they'd probably just be like i don don't know, make your way up here. Can you do it? Go home, buddy. There's stairs. You know how to get there. You did it once before when you were ten. He's looking for Dagmar Clefjaw and Theon thinks fondly of him

and he misses him. He doesn't see anyone familiar. He's just like, oh look, here's an innkeep. And then he just starts bossing the innkeep around and he's all like, does he even know who I am then something we see in the north this isn't some fancy royal day right there's no tourney for his return there's no silk pavilion drawn in casks of arbor gold being passed around that's not the iron way he's ironboarding they live in caverns made of black oily stone like not a golden garden or the bustling capital.

Everything's surrounded by lake effect and repressed daddy issues, right? Like this isn't, it's not King's Landing. It's not a party. There's, you came home to ironborn pirate land. Like this isn't, I don't know what you were expecting. Chloe, can you explain what a lake effect is to me? It's when you live somewhere when you're surrounded by water and it gets real chilly. Oh.

Because of the water. Yeah, it's a lake effect. It's very straightforward then, what it is. I don't know. I thought it was like some sort of psychological concept because you paired it with repressed daddy issues. No, I was just naming the things he has in Pike. Oh, I thought this was an action, like a cycle.

Separate things. Sorry. I was like, ooh. Separate things. Sorry. I was like, ooh. Define this for me and our listeners. Yeah, it's a Midwest thing. You wouldn't understand. I don't think I would. I lived in a state that was surrounded by water for my whole life.

So until I moved here. Got all those great lakes up there. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Super great. Make lakes great again Oh my god Before Theon can even start up to Pike With the innkeep though

Some other dude comes in and he's like I'm going to take my nephew there It's Aberforth Dumbledore Did you mean Clarence or whatever Stop You need to get off this podcast You've been fired.

Thank you. I will find a new co-host. You can put your resignation letter in our inbox. Goodbye, everyone. This has been your other host, Eliana. You can find me on the internet as Aaron Dampier. It's Aaron

Dampier. It's my new podcast host no godless man may be the podcast may sit the girl's gone cannon thrown anyway no only a godless

only a godless person would take this job christ anyway as he's leaving um as Theon's leaving the captain's daughter comes down and she throws herself at theon and she's like i love you and then theon's like oh my god can't do this you can't just come out here and do this in front of everyone theon's out there like bitches man you know he's just like sorry bye and then he he has to detach himself from her and then chase after aaron who just

like came and was he just started going he's like all the way down there already theon says he thought of that his father or maybe his mother might greet him and aaron is all like you ought not to question your father and apparently dagmer is at Old Wyk to rouse other houses like the stone houses and the drums to war basically and it's interesting because of course Arryn glosses right over Alanis' current state from him right it's not his place to explain

what's going on with Theon's mom I realize does Theon even know? No dude He doesn't see her throughout his clash chapters we only see her throughout his Clash chapters. We only see her through Ash's POV. Did someone tell him, or does he just not know? I don't know if he knows.

Maybe we will re-remember soon in the next couple chapters, but I don't think so. Yeah. He tried. He asked. He did ask. I wonder if it's something that's gonna be like what important because what alanis is all sad and stuff about her other her older sons being dead and her youngest yeah she walks through the halls with her candles just whimpering their names yeah maybe it'll be really depressing i actually love Ironborn. I love that I got to do Claradox, Michael Karfeld's map, the Ironborn map.

I got to do Alanis Harlaw, and I got to be a little younger looking for it. But it was really cool. Yeah, that's right. You are holding a candle. Yeah, I am. Just in the halls, in the halls at Pike, just wondering where baby boys Marin and Roderick are. Yeah, and Theon. Maybe he'll come back to you.

He is in fact your squid son. Wow. I know. It's literal. Right, meta. Indeed, like the Dany chapters. Aaron asks if Theon prays to the wolf gods now, and Theon's like, nah. So Aaron makes him kneel and anoints him with salt water.

Let Theon your servant, nah. So Aaron makes him kneel and anoints him with salt water. Let Theon, your servant, be born again from the sea as you were, Aaron Greyjoy intoned. Bless him with salt. Bless him with stone. Bless him with steel. Nephew, do you still know the words? What is dead may never die, Theon said, remembering. Guitars screech. What is dead may never die, his uncle echoed, but rises again, harder and stronger.

Stand. It goes from guitars to Daft Punk. No, no. The guitars. And then when Theon stands, he finally asks Aaron what he feared to know this whole time. I've been half my life away from home, Theon ventured at last. Will I find the islands changed? Men fish the sea, dig in the earth, and die.

Women birth children in blood and pain and die. Night follows day. The winds and tides remain. The islands are as our god made them. Gods, he has grown grim, Theon thought. I love that you can kind of compare this almost to Brienne's line about women's battles in the same book, right? Between Cat and her. Knights die in battle

catalan reminded her rianne looked at her with those blue and beautiful eyes as ladies die in childbed no one sings songs about them and aaron grayjoy definitely simplifies the answer to this question which is not really what theon meant to ask but you know and despite aaron telling theon that everything is same as it ever was Theon is thinking to himself yes that Aaron is grim and that shows us that like this guy used to be this fun loving uncle um is an indication of how much things have changed in those 10 years you know once we get to Aaron's chapters it's interesting though to paint that spin because Aaron of course is like I was a drunk I was an alcoholic I was wasting my life my whole life was just dwindling i could be serving my god

it's like very interesting yeah just to see the different perspectives on what he's become he just feels also a lot more vibrant right there's there's so much more urgency within aaron's chapters that in theon's chapters we don't get. In Theon's chapters, Aaron just seems to get total like stodgy, shitty, not shitty, but just like a stodgy, fuddy, boring old man. Yeah, absolutely. Theon then muses to himself about the name of Asha's ship and he's like, isn't that funny? My sister Asha has a ship Blackwind, and that boy I call my brother that I really shouldn't, Rob, has a wolf that he named Greywind. I should definitely talk about it. Yeah, right? No, he does.

And Ira's just like, um, that's not that cool. And talks briefly about how much he's changed since Theon last saw him. briefly about how much he's changed since Theon last saw him. Theon asks why Balin has called for swords in sales. And this is something poor Quentyn and I were just talking about, actually, that Balin was already gathering people to swords in sales before Theon came home. One way or another, Balin saw another weak spot and instability in the realm and took advantage of the chaos. Littlefinger isn't the only jobless bitch here.

He was ready to take advantage of that. So Balin't the only jobless bitch here uh he was ready to take advantage of that so balan was gonna do it one way or another whether that brought him against his son against the young wolf we don't know but he was ready to go he was like yeah i'll kill bitch whatever i'm going to war i'm gonna take our old way back for sure yeah he just kind of like decided theon was dead to him after a while yeah but i mean you know that's what do you expect there's not much you can do but then of course ned dies so yeah and then when erin rebuffs theon theon decides to declare that um i'm the heir to the iron islands and erin's like sure all right okay jan and there is though your sister asha which i think there's an interesting

inconsistency here all right like we know from all these interactions right now that aaron doesn't like theon as a possible heir but he seems like super willing here to back asha as an heir when like aaron grayjoy is a huge reason and roadblock as to why the sea stone chair did not pass to asha after bail on grayjoy's death and like that's why he was all like oh no she's a woman we can't have her on the sea stone chair we need to have a king's mood now we're gonna put victorian up and like it was a huge gamble and a risk because euron was coming along and like theon gives us some of that world building where Asha technically could have. Because Theon says a woman may inherit only if there is no male heir in the direct line.

And Euron more or less, like, affirms that. And the direct line here means Theon and his siblings, his older brothers, being dead. And then that means Asha. And then Theon's all like, I'm not going to be cheated that means Asha. And then Theon's all like, I'm not going to be cheated out of my seat. And Aaron's all like, I don't know, we'll see. So I feel like something changed in the way that George R.R. Martin conceived

of this Ironborn plot, and even a little bit of how he characterized Aaron. So I have two thoughts here. One, I love that this is like a reverse Ariane and Quentin like I'm totally seeing it now it's reverse Ariane and Quentin like he's the Quentin like I won't be cheated it's my birthright like you won't rob me of my birthright Asha but also this might be where George really diverged into giving Aaron that big backstory with Euron and giving him an actual backstory in general and maybe it's like the idea

of the trilogy and we're seeing the echoes the butterfly effect of no Euron at first as a big bad and now Euron is of course the big bad between the others so maybe there's something in that that Aaron had to develop to be able to show more of that plot that George came up with you know gardening I think there were like hints in this chapter that maybe Euron would still be a big bad because he does notice that Euron's ship isn't there but i think you're right that this is a gardening effect and i think it's like you said it was supposed to be a trilogy and there was also like of course going to be that time skip that five-year gap that was yeah that was chalked and the ironborn plot was going to originally be a prologue to a feast i think he

just needed a way to also like talk about asha having yeah claim yeah i don't know like why he's but yeah i think you're right that this is something that came about in terms of with the story changing and how he had to make it all fit anyway dion's all like trying to warn erin as he said and then erin's all like excuse me you're gonna just mourn a servant of the drowned god you are so dumb also balon grayjoy is not gonna give the iron islands to a stark which get with it theon everyone thinks that you're a fucking stark lackey now yeah that's kind of his whole thing now and then we get this interesting passage, right, that shows us how Theon actually

sees himself and his relationship with the Starks. Theon held his tongue, though not without struggle. So that is the way of it, he thought, as if ten years in Winterfell could make a Stark. Lord Eddard had raised them among his own children, but Theon had never been one of them. The whole castle, from Lady Stark to the lowliest kitchen scullion, knew he was hostage to his father's good behavior and treated him accordingly. Even the bastard, Jon Snow, had been accorded more honor than he had. Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who'd brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home. As a boy he had lived in fear of Stark's stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious.

We're gonna throw this out there, Cat was not wrong. She sure ain't. Say what you want about Cat, but she called him as she seen him. Just saying. Yeah, it's true. I mean, was she was she wrong she was like i smell a bitch in this house she was wrong interesting that he sees all of house stark very coldly after an intro to their family life in yet another lens which us getting to read characters like sanza whose disposition is composed of dreamy songs, and Ned, who's drowned in guilt, it doesn't always present to the eye like characters they actually are, right? And Ned couldn't be the warm father to Theon either.

He had already turned himself off with Jon, right? Which feeds back into this passage, but he'd already turned himself off with Jon. He couldn't just be Theon's dad. He had like five other kids also. Yeah. Dude, being a parent is hard. Robert should have just kept the kid. What? Oh. Robert should have just taken him. Should have taken Theon?

I wonder if Theon actually would have been the son that Robert wanted or would Theon have just been more like Joffrey? I don't know. But also then you get into the idea like Robert would fucking want to kill that kid. He wouldn't want to keep him around so that's true Ned probably stepped up and said he would take him for that that's true too Robert was a bad dad I wonder if that's what happened I mean it's not like I guess Theon Theon's dad was ended up being a good dad to him but Balon was a

pretty good dad to Asha so I don't know he could have been a good dad to Theon they had Theon grown up there he had a very hands-off approach, I feel like. If he were a really good dad, he would have still been a good dad to Theon when he came back. Whatever. Theon thinks about how he sees Rob like a brother and how the Malisters are companions

to him. Patrick Malister, we get some exposition here, right? That Patrick said to Theon that the bell at Seagard had only rung once in 300 years, and that was when Theon's brother, Roderick Greyjoy, stormed it. Which, obviously, getting that information

probably means it's going to ring again. I could see that. I don't know. I could see that. Or it's just fun trivia. Theon thinks he misses Patrick even if he's a Malister, and that he'd make a much better riding companion than Eron. Theon! Theon!

You can't just say that, should you? You're in squid country right now, dog. Squid country! Blend in, read the room. This is why everyone thinks you're a Northman now. He's always going to smell very faintly of wolf now, isn't he? That's true. A wolf true a wolf got that scent well i'm sorry i now have this like weird mental image of like a squid running on land next to

wolves oh my god i have an image of like a squid riding a wolf oh that one's good too i like that real kawaii i just think that like the idea of the squid flailing its tentacles and like a wheel is hilarious spreading alongside it's almost as cute as my cats almost it's definitely not

it's definitely more silly and not cute yeah absolutely it's cute yeah just as a reminder the malicers and the gray droids are sworn enemies

which is why we're all like Theon and chill and then of course Theon tries to explain that things are different now to Arryn. Rob is the king in the north. I feel like this was such a non-starter. Theon should know better.

It's kind of obvious this isn't their way, right? He's under the idea that peace under a kingdom is better than risking your entire host and people, which, look at people like Toruren or like ned who avoid conflict for the north kingdom uh that's obviously a very northern thought and what theon's kind of been brought up in the last 10 years but that's not what the ironborn do they have to be beat into the ground into submission they have to die for people to finally go okay shit i should just stop all this bleeding and just let it be on, you know? Even at that point, they obviously keep going because they were beaten to that point.

They're like, let's try it again. Let's do it again. It's going to be great. Yeah. As we all know, the red comet is in the sky. It's here again. And Theon's telling Aaron, yeah, in Riverrun, they're saying that it's a messenger of the gods and aaron's like yes it is but of our god everybody thinks it's their god you know that's the fun thing about it

that's why it's fun this is fun a burning brand it is such as our people carried of old it is the flame the drowned god brought from the sea and it proclaims a rising tide it is time to hoist our sails and go forth into the world with fire and sword as he did that's some azor ahai imagery if i have ever seen it and of course he's relating this to his god uh so again everyone's seeing azor ahai in their own god and their own god and Azor Ahai. Just like kind of how that happens with religion sometimes. But it's interesting to see Theon start to adapt to Robb's army and where he was stationed and to be, you know, accepting of the seven of the gods, he says.

And the Ironborn kind of have always refused to take on or listen to other viewpoints, right? A lot of other cultures do adapt different ideas, religions, laws, etc. in and out of Westeros. It kind of reminds me of kind of almost an exact opposite look at that power dynamic of the wildlings coming down the wall and giving their lives to the Watch for protection, or accepting Stannis' gods and giving that up just so their kind can survive where the gray joys and the ironborn go for the exact opposite they take and take and take in their name yeah it seems like when you bring up this idea of the wildlings do you think that

the ironborn would rather die than give up their religion yeah i think they do cling to it in a way i think also they're more of those people that if you tell them no about something, they freak out. They do seem like that. They're very, very temperate. Theon looks then at the castle and the Cliffs of Pyke, and we see that he views this entire island in the context of the Greyjoy Rebellion. He's all thinking, oh, those are the scars on the cliffs that were left by King Robert's trebuchets. And oh, there's the

place where King Robert breached pike together with Ned. And there's where I would put trees if I had them. Yeah. Place is sad. It's a sad place. Yeah, we kind of can see why Theon couldn't love Ned as a dad, right? Theon had botched from the safety of the sea tower,

and sometimes he still saw the torches in his dreams and heard the dull thunder of the collapse. And this reminds me a lot of the Targaryens that were younger when they dealt with a bunch of stuff, like Bela, who was at Dragonstone and had to like climb out her window to her dragon and like all the the just the crazy the dance like imagine that dance the noise of the dance i was thinking of this is kind of like maybe how sansa felt

during the black water but she was much more at least sheltered in there i do think though that theon obviously softened his captors in a way that Sansa didn't, because we know the Starks. They treated Theon better than Joffrey and Cersei treated Sansa. Yeah, they weren't beating him. There's that. They were feeding him. bare minimum standard in terms of what one can ask but i do think that there is like an idea that's put forth in the show right where like theon talks about like oh ned stark was my true father and stuff and i think that theon could feel like rob was truly his brother but as we see in theon's interiority in the clash of kings i don't think that theon

could ever really feel that ned stark was his true father and i don't begrudge him for that like if we can accept that sansa would never truly want tyrian as her husband because she says she doesn't want any lannister as a husband she didn't even want lancel all right because they're the family that killed her father her brother and her mother like i think it's only fair to accept that no matter how well ned treated theon ned led a charge against the ironborn and he may not have been the ones who actually killed theon's brothers as we see discussed in this chapter but like theon feels that ned would have done it um if he had to and we also see like that the grayjoy rebellion is so much of how Theon remembers

Pyke, his home, like as just this war-torn place. And of course, like it's because of Balon's own ambition, right? And desire to return to the old ways, which are shitty ways. They're not good ways. And that's like what brings us warfare down on the Greyjoys and the Iron Islands, but it is understandable that it is so viscerally a part of Theon's boyhood memories. And I mean, maybe it's selective, right? Because he jokes about Roderick's death with Patrick and how Jason slain him. But I mean, Ned's the guy who destroyed his home and then took him away from that home. Yeah, and it all rotates around that whole sins of our fathers thing like southern ambitions tearing apart the story and these ambitions

tearing apart theon's part of his story i mean like you said when he walks with aaron he thinks you know i'd rather have hung out with patrick anyways he just stinks of the north now he's that's those are his people that's where he grew up that's where his brain was grown at the most important times you know it's most functioning yeah and that's why he's like having such a hard time like reconciling like uh i only remember this place as like being on fire and i think it's what pushes him over the edge too you know to when pushes him over the edge to try and prove himself as an iron yeah absolutely i mean this is what pushes him over the edge to try and prove himself as an iron boy yeah absolutely i mean this is what pushes him over the edge all of this build-up all of this you know 10 years away and i need to impress my dad and now he just thinks i'm a wolf i'll show him and i'll show him who's

a wolf and and i mean of course in the end he still couldn't do it we like the miller's boys you know that's anyways i digress we're skipping far ahead but no well hold on hold on um i do want to stick with that for just like a second because as you were saying like yeah he was taking away he wasn't home for 10 years like when ned and robert were wards at the erie they could visit home we see that and they like had friends that they could visit and do whatever. Theon didn't get to go home. He has no connection to his family and his home. And that is because he was a hostage. And that's why, as you said, he feels this need to prove himself because that was denied him. the great keep. He's greeted by stablemen and thralls, and Theon thinks of them having dull eyes, similarly to how he thought the captain's daughter was stupid.

He really looks down on them, which is, again, not a good look, Theon. Not at all. No, it's not a good look. I'm just like, I don't know if any of these people are stupid or dull, or if you just think that. You don't know them. They're just eyes. Literally, you can't

control what your eyes do. They might just have RBF. Sometimes that happens. Yeah. He asks Aaron if he will stay for meat and mead and the like, and Aaron keeps giving him Yoda-like answers to things. The way these are phrased, I'm sorry, this just really stood out to me. No, completely. I died laughing when you said that.

Aaron Grayjoy, earlier, he's just like, for like for me you shall not in terms of getting an answer and here he's like bring you i was told it was like okay erin whatever oh my god i'll never unsee that it's just yoda like walking around with a walking stick ah bring you i was told uncle grayjoy yes that's him balan didn't come down to meet him so he waits for theon in the sea tower he only comes back to all these new people like hell yeah hell yeah hell yeah silas sour mouth was who theon knew from his childhood but he's been dead five years he learns so this drags us right to the crux of the chapter which we quoted at the start of this episode. It is as if I were a stranger here, Theon thought. Nothing has changed, and yet everything has changed. And Theon doesn't

get to go back to his old bedchambers, which is where he thought he was going to sleep and be taken, in the sea tower. Instead, he's brought to a place that's called the Bloody Keep, so you know it's going to be great. Instead, the old woman led him to the Bloody Keep. The halls were larger and better furnished, if no less cold nor damp. Theon was given a suite of chilly rooms with ceilings so high that they were lost in gloom. He might have been more impressed if he had not known that these were the very chambers that had given the Bloody Keep its name. A thousand years before, the sons of the River King had been slaughtered here,

packed to bits in their beds so that pieces of their bodies might be sent back to their father on the mainland. But Greyjoys were not murdered in Pyke except once in a great while by their brothers, and his brothers were both dead. Ugh, heebie-jeebies. I'm just, like, thinking... I just want to spam a bunch of, siren slash alarm emoji especially like get out of there regarding this to everyone else who's like reading this passage because there are two things that we see that are coming into play in this passage that happen later in the story but of

course with a slight twist like that idea of yeah as you said everyone needs to get the fuck out of here right now hacked to bits in their bed so that pieces of their bodies might be sent back to their father on the mainland. I've never heard of this happening to anyone in the story except for, of course, Theon Greyjoy. Yeah, that was a nod. That was a nod. Maybe. I definitely... Also, like, what a hostile place to put your son in.

It's definitely, like... It's hostile! And he doesn't, like, and we'll get to put your son in. It's definitely, like... It's hostile! And he doesn't, like, and we'll get to this, but he doesn't know Theon yet. So he, like, he's, like, almost testing him. He's, like, to, like, scare him. This is definitely, like... He doesn't know what Theon's coming to him as. Yeah.

He knows, I mean, Balon Greyjoy is saying something here without having even seen his son yet by putting him in this room. Yeah. So, Theon has body pieces hacked off, right? And sent to his dad, whatevs. And then there's a whole thing of, right? Where Theon's like, why would I ever worry about that? Because Greyjoys were not murdered in Pyke, except once the Great Maw and their brothers, and those brothers were dead. Theon.

Theon's fine. Sure, sure. But guess who has brothers that are Greyjoys? Guess who is a Greyjoy with brothers? Balon? Balon. He has two brothers. I mean, one of them probably does

actually have dull eyes. Throw that out there. Oh yeah, probably. Probably. He's Aryan. And yeah, Euron pretty much murders Balon and I mean like other other things yeah we'll hear of some more of your own skin slaying when we someday get to the forsaken in 10 years i don't actually know when we get to the forsaken i literally don't know we'll get there someday

though it'll be a good episode we'll have to uh i think there's a guest we have to ask on for that is there is it george rr yeah he going to be on the podcast. He said so. Yeah. We're best friends. Also, Theon is thinking he's going to get a warm welcome. Do you know where you used to live, bro? Do you even know?

I mean, he does, right? And he told the captain's daughter I was thinking about what's her name? I was like, we don't know her name. About how cold and shitty and hard the Iron Islands were. What did he think he was gonna get? But yeah, he wants a freaking

welcome guard. Yeah. An honor guard. An honor guard. You live in the Iron Islands now, ho. There's no honor guard. There's no... Who's even gonna be here? No one.

Nobody lives here. There's no guards. People just have axes and shit. Yeah. He gets ready to meet with his father, and he puts a lot of choice into what he wears, but he puts all the wrong choice into it. Yeah.

He puts a lot of thought. He chose boots of supple black leather, soft lambswool breeches of silvery gray, a black velvet doublet with the golden kraken of the Greyjoys embroidered on the breast. Around his throat, he fastened a slender gold chain. Around his waist, a belt of bleached white leather. He hung a dirk at one hip and a longsword at the other

in scabbard-striped black and gold. Drawing the dirk at one hip and a longsword at the other in scabbard striped black and gold. Drawing the dirk, he tested its edge with his thumb, pulled a whetstone from his belt pouch, and gave it a few licks. He prided himself on keeping his weapons sharp. When I return, I shall expect a warm room and clean rushes, he warned the thralls as he drew on a pair of black gloves, the silk decorated with a delicate scrollwork tracery in golden thread. Read the room, Theon. Don't put your fancy-ass clothing on

when you go to your fucking evil, mean pirate family. What's wrong with you? Read your cold, dirty room. Look at him, dressed like to match. This is, yeah, this is not the place. Alright, don't put on your cocktail. Put on your leather jacket, Theon Greyjoy. What is this hot-topic-ass outfit that he just threw on

to go to dinner with his dad? His estranged father. I know. You should be wearing what you got from the thrift shop, Theon. Lake effect and repressed daddy issues. That is all this is. Really is. We're gonna only get more of it it's gonna be great

theon then makes his way up to where bail on is he's like crossing these bridges and all of them like are super scary and narrower than the last one and the final bridge is just made of rope and wood and it sways in the wind above like these like i don't know cliffs of super jagged rocks and then theon thinks to himself about being scared about it he's like boys believe nothing can hurt them his doubt whispered grown men know better so that's his like his fear fear thing from eddard right his uh that's his fear phrase right there grown men know better but also i love that that like focuses on the bridge swinging in the wind and how he thinks like grown men know better yeah but grown men also have murderous brothers exactly I'm like

he is not wrong to be afraid of this bridge yeah many other people should be afraid of it it's just that Theon's afraid I guess of the wrong thing I mean yes the bridge is scary but many things will hurt you in your life Theon Grey Greyjoy. And as we see throughout Clash, Theon is still very much a boy. He has a lot of time to get injured soon, too. So he's saying it does happen. He's got his whole life ahead of him. Yeah, his whole book life, Theon. Don't you worry.

So we see Balen Greyjoy. He is more gaunt than Theon remembers after 10 years of being apart. And Balen is skeptical that his son is still ironborn. He accuses Theon of being a messenger balan is skeptical that his son is still ironborn he accuses theon of messenger for the starks and of course the father he finally gets to see after all these years starts to rip into him because of his clothing we go into a lot more depth regarding the scene in our patron episode every day is halloween but but basically balan grayjoy decides who theon's identity is.

It's described through the clothing that Theon wears, and through the clothing that Theon wears, we very much see how Stark-like, how North-like he is. And we begin that process where Balon Greyjoy just tears things off and makes fun of Theon and tells him, no, this is not how you're supposed to dress. And Balon accuses Theon of having gone soft because he's paid the gold price for all of these niceties

instead of, again, going to the thrift shop. And Theon insists that these letters and the terms, though, that he has brought to Balon were his idea. It was a great idea, Dad. Yeah, Balon refuses to listen to his son, and Theon tries to goad him into reading it, and he's like, I remember when my father was a great idea, Dad. Yeah, Balin refuses to listen to his son, and Theon tries to goad him into reading it, and he's like, I remember when my father was a king. The letter basically offers Balin to be king of the Iron Islands in exchange for helping

Rob destroy his enemies. And of course, Theon used a really good kind of idea. Trina thought he thought it would be a good idea to bind his families together, right? When you think about it, he diplomatically thought, I can be a Stark and I would be a good idea to bind his families together right when you think about it he diplomatically thought i can be a stark and i can be a gray joy by wedding my family together in this kind of a glorious battle but his dad shoots that shit right down well when you put it that way now it's like super sad like that's like it's such a childlike he wanted to have both worlds he could still be lord gray joy with his black and gold you know outfit on but that's not how the ironborn work mom and dad can get it's not how it works

bail on though gets super fixated on this one phrase in the letter where rob is going to give bail on the crown dion here is like very pleased with himself though not really thinking about it he's saying like this is great I'm gonna lead an attack on Lannisport then I'm gonna take Casterly Lothbrok and Balon's like wait hold on back up this boy Robb Stark who's just been king now this boy thinks he's gonna just give

me Balon Greyjoy just give me a crown he's this him he's going to give me a crown just like i think the hell not yeah he burns the letter and theon's like whoa whoa are you mad like what are you doing and balan's like don't talk to me that way which yes absolutely like you are my son don't you speak like that young man don't use that tone with me my god that's's exactly what is going on there.

But Theon's like, fuck that, I'm 19, dad, I'm gonna stay on my prime, and he makes a comeback. And interestingly, this actually works. And Theon making this comeback pleases Balon. He's like, at least you're not a coward. So... Balon reveals his plan. Yes, we're gonna fight, and that's what the longships are for.

I mean to carve out a kingdom with fire and sword, but not from the west, and not at the bidding of King Rob the Boy. Castorly Rock is too strong, and Lord Tywin too cunning by half. Aye, we might take Lannisport, but we should never keep it. No, I hunger for a different plum not so juicy sweet to be sure yet it hangs there ripe and undefended it's you where theon might have asked but by then he knew what a nightmare everything went wrong today right for theon theon stark joy had the no good, very bad, absolutely fucking horrible bullshit day. Nothing was right.

Yeah, he thought it was going to all go really well at the beginning. He's like, got a morning nut, and then it all was just like downhill from there. I like how Balon talks about Winterfell as a plum. Yeah, kind of sour. How do you pick that fruit? That yeah kind of sour let me pick that fruit that's true let me pick that fruit the way that the closing to this chapter is written and that insinuation at the end with the reveal of the plans it's not explicitly stated right but it's very much similar to how george writes because this is similar to that last feast chapter for

arian's storyline when he reveals that oh your brother that you think is stealing your throne that's not what's happening like quentin's this is actually what quentin's been doing vengeance his voice was soft as if he were afraid that someone might be listening justice prince doran pressed onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen gouty fingers and whispered fire and blood and it's that implication of where we're going Doran doesn't actually straight up say what Quentin's doing and the fact that like it's the same

here because Theon knows what Balon means and it all comes together so that the reader also understands that we're talking about Winterfell Winterfell is the plum Theon knows exactly what's going on it is undefended it it's all pointing to it and and like throughout this entire chapter like where

theon grew up the castle and the family that it's winterfell's been that looming presence in his whole mind and this entire battle between like the grayjoys and the Starks has been going on for 10 years. It didn't end with the Greyjoy Rebellion. It's been happening inside of Theon this whole time. It has, and it's interesting because this is the moment that Theon has to choose which family, you know. Like, it's the carrot in front of him that's being dangled that you can have your family back, but you have to do this for us. And you have to betray everything you've known for the last 10 years and this chapter is great because it gives us so much balan backstory and rebellion backstory without handing us that balan pov we don't need the balan

pov i wouldn't want to be in his mind personally fuck that crusty old man but he dares to use this chaos to secure his people's independence and find glory through, albeit not very honorable, ways. He paid the iron price himself originally in losing his elder sons, who were arguably heir material, and then he loses his only son left, the heir, to Lord Stark as a hostage of war. So though well treated, his son is raised by Balin's bitter enemy. He's left to stew in it, lonely. His wife loses her marbles. She lives in her family's towers alone, wandering the halls, crying. Nothing but his daughter to comfort him.

Balin's last chance for revenge and to take what he wants is this. This is his I Want song. It's laid out in the background of this chapter, and it ramps up to show Theon's original fall from grace which funny enough uh leads to another fall later on thanks Judas but hey you guys this has been great thank you for listening it's really weird to be on to another POV and it's not Sansa we were really in that Sansa mode for a while we were but we are switching gears we are ready to dive in to the theon chapters yeah two and three next week are you ready we got some emotions to get through there's a lot of emotions

yeah we just skip we just skip ahead but stay stay with us everyone subscribe to us on social media uh hit us up on the email tell us your fruits and vegetables and stuff uh you can find us as girls gone canon on twitter or as girls gone canon at gmail.com via email yeah make sure you subscribe to us you can subscribe to us on podbean on itunes on spotify on google play on stitcher and on acast. And of course, we also have a Patreon, and there is an Elaine chapter in the Winds of Winter,

so $5 and up patrons will be able to hear that Patreon episode, which will come out before the end of the month. And as always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor or at www.lizandarborgold.com. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana, also known as Glass Table Girl on the Mesa Monthly Podcast or the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit.

Have a good one, guys. Don't get too sad thinking about Theon. Goodbye. You getting sad? Oh, I'm getting sad? Oh. I'm getting sad. I feel mixed. I'm sad, but I'm excited, because we're doing we're here at the Theon chapter. It's gonna be good.

Goodbye, you guys.