Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 37 - ACOK Theon II/III

Episode Date: February 1, 2019

Home: a bitter four-letter word.   Intro by Anton Langhage   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

Hey guys and welcome to episode 37 of Girls Gone Canon, Theon 2 and Theon 3 in A Clash of Kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as LizaNArbor on Twitter and Tumblr or at LizaNArborGold.com. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as GlossTableGirl from the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit, or the Maester Monthly Podcast, or as Arithmetric on Twitter. I know you from there. I know you from my dreams. Here.

Whoa! We're getting saucy already on the podcast. Okay. We're really excited, though, to get to Theon two and three we just finished recording and by now i think it'll be chopped up edited up thrown up for patrons five dollars and up our elaine stone one in the winds of winter episode i'm really excited about the episode we dropped some knowledge some truth yeah it's a little longer than our usual episodes

because as you said we dropped a lot of analysis and discussion obviously you know we're very excited for the winds of winter and i mean that was the first sansa chapter that people had for like 10 years had to go all of dance no sansa we do have some emails and tweets of notes to read i think eliana do you want to hop us off yeah so we have quite a few tweets in response to that theon episode that of course we released last week and a lot of people had some really awesome things to say there was a lot of really great in-depth responses and we only picked a few of them but you know check us out on twitter see what people are talking about.

Lots of great takes. Like, for example, we're not going to read Pat Spanogles aloud, but he had some good takes, too. And I totally mispronounced his name again. I'm sorry, it's just ingrained in me, Pat. So, I want... Spanagle! Spanagle. You do great.

I'm going to start off with this great discussion from Eve on Twitter. You can find them as atcanonicalgay. And... Same. Eve says, loved hearing some advice, takes on the

Stork House as an institution slash North as a society in general for once. Love them. Yes, but this is the part that I thought was so interesting that Eve pointed out about Theon's storyline. So he says, Also, as much as we like to laugh at Theon's nonsensical fantasies

of the Iron Islands and pathetic slash tragically uninformed, by no fault of his own, sobbing emoji, relationship with culture, his culture strikes home so thoroughly for me as part of the diaspora. Theon is an idiot full of hot air, but his whole hostage situation doesn't lend itself to fostering a healthy relationship with his culture, in which diaspora kid hasn't had that phase of having stupid shallow uninformed and romanticized ideas of their

cultures history traditions slobbing emoji again also his simultaneous pride and being ironborn all he has left to cling to in my opinion but also the patronizing attitude toward other ironborn he must have certainly absorbed in the north is so cringeworthy and also heartbreaking and also very upsettingly real and i just loved this take i didn't know this but both even though i are coming from i think a similar standpoint when we're thinking about this cultural diaspora there's a lot of different ones of course from countries. But when we're talking about it, turns out we have the same anchor point of that Filipino diaspora. I'm Filipina American, and Eve, I believe, is Filipino Australian. And just that relationship that first generation or immigrant kids have in the culture where they're growing up, right? The culture in which they're

living. But of course, having that sort of third culture or different experience because your parents and your home household is a different culture. And then having your entire family or feeling that there's a family on the other side of the country, on the other side of the country on the other side of the globe the world and you don't belong in the country where you're growing up and don't quite fit in but when you go back and you visit your family you're not you don't belong there either i think another just calling this out there another comic that another story that explored this really well it, I think, I want to say issue 13 of Miss Marvel, but not the first run, the second one after they had to reboot everything after Secret Wars or some shit. Miss Marvel does a great job of exploring that idea through a Pakistani American girl. Yeah, absolutely. I know I can't come from the same uh same channel because you know i'm

white i'm real white i don't know what i am but i'm real white i can tell you that and i know i don't come from that same channel so i can't have that kind of same experience but i do think it's interesting especially the idea of believing that your culture is inherently good at the center because us as humans think that things are good when you get to the center, no matter what. Like evil villains always have a backstory. They always have something good going on underneath. Like, oh, their heart was broken because their dad was murdered or, you know, like, I don't know, whatever backstory. Look at America. I mean, a lot of Americans are like, this is my culture.

I'm American. But obviously a lot of that culture can be very destructive and tear people apart. Just like things like, you know, the ironborn culture and the iron pride. So I can really appreciate that. And also that feeling of wanting to belong. I mean, that's every culture. Every culture has community and has things that, you know, people belong to so it's very sad it's just very sad to have someone you know plucked from what they once were put back in and then rejected yeah and it's something that it's that is explored in other povs of course like you have that with john especially you know once he spends time with the wildlings he doesn't fit into the wildlings he doesn't fit in in the north anymore after that experience either you have danny who doesn't fit into really the mold of any of the cultures that she's thrust

into she's not going to fit into westeros when she comes back um that's going to be an interesting comparison to theon's storyline when we get it but i just love this lens that eve put on theon's storyline and it's something that i think is going to be at the back of my mind and we'll probably pull it forward every now and then as we go through all these different chapters. Yeah, I really love what Eve had to say about that. We also got a really cool tweet from our good buddy jash7.34 on Twitter. Coming off the heels of Sansa's chapter and all the nods to fairy tales throughout her arc, I couldn't help but notice the scene between Balin and Theon felt a little like the stepsisters destroying Cinderella's dress before the ball.

Yes! I love that comparison. I think that's just so smart. It's just so good, especially like when with Sansa you see it built up where like she gets the beautiful dress and then it's destroyed for her. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, for Theon it's like the coming home. It's the after part and like love it yeah for theon it's like the coming home it's the after

part and like his father tearing off the necklace that's absolutely like what happens in cinderella and then the pearls they just like go all over yeah so sad and the mice are all sad yeah i'm the mice i'm sad there are no mice to help theon he's got gotta just go kill people on his own and take his own goddamn, like, new necklace. Oh, Theon. The iron price. So, let's get into our lightning round since Theon won. What have we missed? We've missed Daenerys

won. Journeying through the Red Waste, Dany fights to keep her newborns and Kala Saur alive. She sends her blood riders scouting and they discover Karth. Jon too. Jon investigates Whitetree and discusses his uncle Benjen with Jaor Mormont. Arya four. Amry Lorch leads men to apprehend Yoren and take Gendry, and Arya frees prisoners before escaping the din.

Tyrion three. Cersei's PR team has their work cut out for them after Stannis sends out a pretty nasty press release. Tyrion commissions a fancy chain and he meets with Varys. Bran II. The Harvest Feast is held at Winterfell and then Bran dreams of a golden man throwing him from a tower. Tyrion IV. Tyrion plays a loyalty game with Pyicel little finger and varies just so everyone knows for reference tyrian was inspired by kanyan kardashian west kanyan kandashian west oh my god so it's a two sonza finds a fool to take her home she's escorted back to her chambers later by a not-so-true knight.

In Arya IV, Arya is unmasked by Gendry as a lady of House Stark, and later, her gang comes under capture by Gregor Clegane's men. Tyrion V. Tyrion gets so much done in court, it's amazing! It seriously is. Like, do you ever think that?

When I go through Clash, I'm like, damn, Tyrion, you did that. The government was working this year. Tyrion should have negotiated for a six-month review. Get that pay raise. Today, he researches King's Landing's nuclear power and then deals with Robb Stark's terms. And then his loyalty game finally bears fruit. Who leaked the baby pics? Bran 3.

Bran meets the reed kids and dreams of them in the godswood with the direwolves. Catelyn 2. Catelyn attempts to form an alliance with Renly Baratheon. Jon 3. Jon meets Craster and learns of the strange traditions that he keeps with the cold gods. Not the old gods, the cold gods. Theon 2. Theon old gods, the cold gods. Theon too. Theon meets a local, Esgrid,

and falls victim to her flirtations until it's revealed that Esgrid is your sister! Asha! Asha is placed at a seat of honor later during a feast by the cold distant father Theon dearly has, and later, she takes a more important mission cold distant father theon dearly has and later she takes the more important mission from her father as he reveals his secret plans dead so theon is

admiring a ship in the bay and he turns around and he finds a young woman to admire as well she's long-legged she's ironborn she's got it going on that's right it's eskrad get me uh eskrad is letting theon flirt with her mischievously smirking she begins to stroke his ego well his ego first that's one way to talk about it theon is talking shit about he's like i'm a great ironborn lord and he's telling her all the moves that he wants to put on her i mean theon like it's weird anyways esgrid though is a woman wed allegedly with a child on the way allegedly ironically when you think about it we'll get to that eventually theon thinks that oh this is better than his optimism here he's like that's fine if you're pregnant then

there's no chance of a bastard interesting interesting uh thought process it's been but as great says then her man will be unhappy with her i mean yeah have you ever had a prince he asked her when you're wrinkled and gray and your teeth hang past your belly, you can tell your children's children that once you loved a king. Oh, is it love we're talking now? And here I thought it was just cocks and cunts. Is it love you fancy?

He decided that he liked this wench. Whoever she was, her sharp wit was a welcome respite from the damp gloom of Pike. Shall I name my long ship after you and play you the high harp and keep you in a tower room in my castle with only jewels to wear like a princess in a song? You ought to name your ship after me, she said, ignoring all the rest. It was me who built her.

Sigrid built her. My lord father's shipwright. I'm Asgard, Ambrode's daughter and her. Sigrid built her. My lord father's shipwright. I'm Asgrad, Ambrode's daughter and wife to Sigrid. He had not known that Ambrode had a daughter, or Sigrid a wife. But he'd met the younger shipwright only once, and the older one he scarce remembered. You're wasted on Sigrid. Ho ho, Sigrid told me the sweet ship is wasted on you. Theon bristled.

Do you know who I am? Prince Theon of House Greyjoy. Who else? Tell me true, my lord. How well do you love her, this new maid of yours? Sigrun will want to know. First off, in there, that is a Rhaegar and Lyanna reference. Why, yes.

High heart, jewels, towers, naked, princess, tower, Why, yes. High heart. Jewels. Towers. Naked. Princess. Tower. Song. Song. Yeah, that was great. I love that. I was like, why did a... That's an interesting, that's a very specific and strange interesting example that you're pulling out there, Theon. Yeah, a little bit. I love it. He asks her if the boat is as fast as she looks.

It's not quite as big as Baelin's ship, the Great Kraken, or his Uncle Victarion's, the Iron Victory, which, I love that, by the way. I love that commentary that Balan's ship is called the Great Kraken and Uncle Victarion's is the Iron Victory. Like, okay, Victarion.

But the boat looks swift and it looks sweet and it's been a few years since Theon's even sailed. He admits to himself he's never captain but he thinks he's a gray joy and it's in his blood i don't think that's how captaining works but like you do use the answer yeah as grid thinks that his blood's gonna end up being in the sea though if he sails the way that he talks i mean i don't know those are like decent moves though i don't know i don't really want to be hit on with someone saying i'm gonna lock you in a tower like what it's not cute and he says he

would never mistreat his fair maiden the ship so esgrid mocks him saying that the ship is no lady she's a sea bitch which of course wrapped in layers of layers of layers of irony right fion's like all like oh you're a beautiful fair maiden as gred but later on we learn she is a sea bitch and ironically he names his ship right then sea bitch and after this reveal comes we go back to when he was thinking about his sister's ship's name which is you know black wind kind of like gray wind and he ends up naming his ship after his sister even though he's like i I hate you, Asha. That's true.

It's also like, well, I guess the ship's a fair maiden, because I'm like, clearly someone who's pregnant is not a maiden. Exactly. And I mean, we're going to get into that a little more here, because he just keeps, you know, he keeps saying things he thinks that's what she wants to hear when we learn that it's Asha. And Asha would never want to hear any we learn that it's asha and asha would never want to hear any of that especially not from her brother he keeps on like trying to get with her he keeps trying to bang her and he's like look how great i am you need my dick married woman like that's pretty much most this chapter and he asks her to come back to pike with him it's interesting that he's spending so much time projecting right like he wants to belong so badly he sees a

cool ironborn chick and he's like i have to impress her i have to belong and it makes me wonder where this macho stick is coming from obviously from like his dad obviously that's one thing but what influences is this that pent-up energy from winterfell when he was you know subdued against the other boys you think um he never got to have the stage and he wants to you know wax that macho charisma i don't know i think there's that i mean he definitely seemed like he was this kind of person before like what isn't he the one who gives tyrian the tip about roz in the in the um brothel so yeah I think this is just who he is

at this time and I mean that's it I think this is just who he is ugh and like maybe part of it is him playing it up even more

for the ironborn but like okay some of his flirting is super cringeworthy but like you can tell with how comfortable he is dropping these lines and just like going back and forth like he's not he's putting on obviously this bravado and machismo act but he's experienced in doing it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess. I guess. I guess. Does he, though? I mean, he's not afraid

of women. You know? He's not shy around them. It's not the first time he's tried to put the moves on someone. You should be humble. You just drink your juice, Theon. He can't even drink his juice, as we find out later.

Anyway, we get this weird bondage sex euphemism from Asha. It's really only weird because, you know, it's Asha and Theon, but, you know, it's really interesting. She goes, Well, I know which end of the oar goes in the sea, and there's no one better with the

ropes nuts one-handed she undid the lacing of his britches then grinned and stood lightly away from him a pity i'm a woman wed and knew a child i'm gonna start using that as like a catchphrase a pity i'm a woman wed and knew a child my boss is like can you go do this and i'm like it's a pity that i'm a woman wed and knew with child every time you order a drink it's a pity that i'm a woman wed new with child every time you order a drink it's a pity i'm a woman wed and new with child every time my boyfriend's like will you do the dishes i'm like it's a pity i'm a woman wed new with child take a swig of wine from the bottle oh i was thinking from the bag i know you better better um yeah this is great uh i love that it also hints to us that

asha sexually experienced as we see in her later chapters there's a lot of gems from asha in these chapters like in every in every asha chap yeah anytime ash is present there's a gem that's true the whole time eskrad is like physically him, but refusing to actually touch him beneath his pants. She's- Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, it's weird, but, like, if you read it again, like, you notice, oh, she keeps saying, no, I don't want to touch you. Like, and she keeps, like, saying

things, mocking him. Ugh. She gives in to coming to Pike with him. She implies she likes to be on top while sharing his horse. And as he and Eskrad pass the many ironborn in town they all bow to them and diana's like yeah nice they finally learned who i am he thought and passed time too but like it's asha that's who they're bowing to it's a great idiot it's idiot sandwich that's so much irony yeah i'm so glad we don't have siblings

so we don't understand, but all of this makes me gag. All of it makes me gag. Cersei and Jaime doesn't make me gag like this. I don't understand that. Yeah, I don't know why it is either. I don't know. And then, you know, we're all like, yeah, that cousin marriage that we talk about and all those things. That's fine. Jon and Daenerys, that's

normal, baby. But Thea and Asha, that's where I draw the line. Yeah, and I think maybe that's because. Jonathan Aries, that's normal, baby. But Fiat and Asha, that's where I draw the line. Yeah. And I think maybe that's because we're conditioned to because they show it as being so gross. Like, Fiat and Asha are like, what the fuck? Right. Like, we're over here like, they're consenting-ish adults. About other people.

Anyway. George, what have you done to us? Gross. How am I supposed to feel about anything um i do know though that i'd hate to have a sibling show me up like this all the time i mean that's not what we're talking about but i mean that is what this chapter and a lot of like i guess the odd and asha's relationship is it's him feeling like he's living in asha's shadow which like i've never ever seen anyone feeling like they're living in their sibling's shadow before in a song of ice and fire

never yeah never never never ever never no stark no baratheon no stark no stark no baratheon no one's ever felt that way no no uh martel no tully yeah no no one's ever felt that a scred starts to smile and chat with all the village folk, and Theon's like, how do you know these people? What? You're just some common chick. And the Iron Man and Eskrad all exchange, like, what if Deadman never dies? And Theon is like, okay,

well, maybe I'll take her counsel on who to put on my crew, because then she'll feel like I think she's important to me, and she'll want me more which like yikes that's not a good look oh definitely not it's kind of lucky for asha though that no one said her name in that time yeah absolutely it's not like it wouldn't have been unlucky but we wouldn't have gotten the rest of this wonderful chapter okay we obviously know theon's not a model

citizen he's arrogant he's absorbed he doesn't really think before he speaks and he's kind of a raging misogynist like he thinks women are there to serve him and his needs which whatever cool but this is the setup that makes taking him off the page until dance so effective after this book it's what makes dance and that reveal so much more horrible and it's very much like sansa's arc in that fall from grace thing because we can see from the broad strokes like it doesn't matter what you did to accelerate the plot the plot was already in motion around you cersei was gonna make moves toward ned you just made it easier sansa and balin was going to attack the

north theon just gave him a better like like, fucked up reason to do so. And we see Theon's, like, northern station and Iron Islander status get used against him for his identity as we continue on through these chapters. For sure. They end up passing the Miraham again, you know, that ship from last chapter. And Theon tries to take long strides very quickly away which is very rude none of the ships though have left port because balon has put a freeze on them leaving and of course this is important to demonstrate because that shows that this was always balon's plan and theon was just

a pawn or tool in it and again he's trying to hurry past the mirror ham but not in time because then we hear a voice weakly calling my lord the she doesn't please my lord and as gret is like really did she just call you my lord seriously she please you oh nice yeah theon's like oh yeah she wanted to be my salt wife and asgore's like yeah she could do with some salting she's playing she could use like some seasoning salt you know is that i don't know about like semen or like just just some i think it's just supposed to be about like food but she's bland yeah she said she's bland that's the language yes yes gross ass i'm sorry we are talking about semen eliana we are on the Iron Islands that is true I find it interesting that this is what he goes with to impress her right like concubines are more akin to sex slaves than

they are to paramours which that's what Theon is treating it as he's romanticizing it you know he's speaking again if we want to bring back Rhaegar and Lyanna into the equation he's speaking about like oh I could kidnap you and make you my salt wife we later learn that asha like even though she does have a little bit of that iron island misogyny tinged into her right she's still very much so for the woman we heard in this chapter we see her try to champion herself for the sea stone chair uh the idea that theon is trying to impress esgrid by saying like oh i'm gonna, I was gonna take that girl as my salt wife, bang her, give her

bastards, and then maybe like a small hovel or shack by the sea to live in. Like that's what he was trying to impress her with. And a king will have banged you, you know, if you bang me, I'm a king. It's great. It's kind of gross. Like, paramours and Dorne are celebrated and

given keeps. And, you know, like, their kids are celebrated, where saltwives are just, like, fucked up and left out to dry. Yeah, I wonder to an extent what was more similar to the situation on Dragonstone. It kind of feels like it was the saltwives and not the paramours. Yeah, with the dragon seeds. They head to the inn, though, and then they pick up Theon Squire. It's Wex! Yeah, you might recognize Wex from

the guy who tells Wyman that Rickon and Brandon Stark did not get killed. Soon. I love that it doesn't seem like Theon really catches on in this chapter. He says something about it, but he doesn't catch it, and neither does the reader that Wex literally cannot talk.

Very silent. Like the silence. Oh, I wonder. I don't know. Wex's eyes widen at the sight of Eskred, and Theon totally ignores him. He's like, ready the saddles for our journey back, and Theon's

horse is a hell horse. Eskred sees it, and she is surprised at it. He thinks she's impressed from her laughter and he tells her, oh, I got it from Lord Botley. But of course, she knows this horse well, right? Like we already know she got it from Lord Botley, from Triss's dad. Lord Botley said the horse was too much for him and sold him to Theon. And we learn the Iron Islands isn't really prosperous with horses. The terrain is too rocky for them and smaller folk

couldn't really afford them or ride them. Maybe what they need are some mules. Yeah. But also like... I know, right? It is pretty fucking difficult. They don't need horses there. A, what are you going to ride them on? B, they're expensive and as they

discuss later they're difficult to transport on ships which i think that's gonna come into play later because i mean it's very much the opposite of the dothraki and they're trying to like be like yeah we're gonna bring all these dothraki and probably their horses over on these ships yeah that's gonna be a mess it's gonna be i bet she's gonna lose a lot of them. It's gonna be so stinky. It's gonna smell so bad. Yeah, okay, horse girl. Eliana, Elia, uh, Sand. That's true.

I mean, always smell the horses. I smell bad. Oh my god. But Theon had spent ten years in Winterfell and did not intend to go to war without a good mount beneath him. Lord Botley's misjudgment was his good fortune, a stallion with a temper as black as his hide, larger than a courser if not quite so big as most dusterars.

As Theon was not quite so big as most knights, that suited him admirably. The animal had fire in his eyes. When he'd met his new owner, he pulled back his lips and tried to bite off his face. Does he have a name? Esgrid asked, beyond as he mounted. Smiler. He put her hand and pulled her up in front of him where he could put his arms around as they rode. I knew a man once who told me that I smiled at the wrong things. Do you?

Only by the lights of those who smile at nothing. He thought of his father and his uncle Aaron. Are you smiling now, my lord prince? Oh yes. Theon reached around her to take the rings. She was almost of a height with him. Her hair could have used a wash and she had a faded pink scar on her pretty neck. But he liked the smell of her salt and sweat and the woman. I'm gonna gag. I'm gonna fucking puke. I'm gonna puke.

I can't believe you're saying that to me. Oh yes. In the next chapter though, Theon we're gonna see starts smiling a lot less. Theon, we're going to see, starts smiling a lot less. Theon and Sandor both have big, giant, mean-tempered black horses, both on redemption-y arts. Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Take on different identities. Yeah, lose identities, keep identities, et cetera, et cetera. Just whatevs. On the way to Pyke, Theon tries to feel Esgrid up more. That's the whole chapter. That's it whole chapter that's it hands on our boobs she tells him to keep his hands on the reins or the horse may kill them both dion claims he broke the horse of that habit and he starts to slide his hands back up and she pulls his fingers off of her he notes that her hands are really strong. She asks if she'll be welcomed to the castle by his father, very coyly,

and he admits Balin barely even welcomed him to the castle. He starts to talk shit about his sister. Why should he? He scarcely welcomed me, his own glide, the ear to pike, and the iron islands. Are you? She asks mildly. It's said you have uncles, brothers, a sister. My brothers are long dead, and my sister...

Well, they say Asha's favorite gown is a chain-nail halberd that hangs down past her knees with boiled leather small clothes beneath. Men's garb won't make her a man, though. I'll make a good marriage alliance with her once we've won the war. If I can find a man to take her

as I recall she had a nose like a vulture's beak a ripe crop of pimples and no more chest than a boy you can marry off your sister as Grit observed but not your uncles it is interesting though the things that Bian says because this is something that

what Euron tries to do to Asha that her uncles try to do to her, marrying her off. Yep. She asks what he'll do about his uncles and we get introduced to them through their speak. We learn that Aaron is pious. Victarion is a fearsome

warrior but Theon thinks he lacks wit and ambition which we know is half true but his ambition is kind of newborn the last time we all see him. Euron hasn't been seen for years, and Theon thinks he might be dead. Euron had never given up the old way, ever, and his ship was black with red holes. His ship was said to be known from Ib to Asshai. I love that we get that characterization, though, of his three uncles who end up, you know, coming to the forefront of

the story later and that even as early as book two we have that same line that i think is repeated in feast of like his sales are known from ib to ashai it's fun it's a fun phrase i also love that it introduces us to that idea you know that like mad matter etc for them yeah yeah and there's uh i mean i don't know that victorian's quite mad but yeah there's a lot there that's already setting that up and you can see that mystery around euron already building esgrid comments you know like about that that euron has been gone for so long that he himself would also be a stranger to these people and she says that they would never seat him the other agrees though he's kind of hesitant to like say so because i mean he's been gone 10 years so like

who's he to talk a stranger more like the stranger am i right you're on when men see myself what is it when men see my sales they pray they pray oh it's such a badass line i love him he's like an anime villain he is i love him daddy cut my tongue out oh my god cut my tongue out you're on oh my god i forgot this is what we get to do all the time now what do you oh yeah make these jokes cut my tongue out daddy speaking of which uh you're stop speaking of which emmet um aka poor cl, is also speaking recently about how it's interesting how both Theon and Euron have been away from home for some time, so it's interesting that, like, when Theon comes back, he gets

the cold shoulder, while, like, Euron is welcomed with open arms to the Ironborn, and, like, I mean, of course, it's because Euron has grown up with these people, but it's because he has, like, all of these, like, Ironborn trappings of what masculine power is and riches around him that he's able to just, like, be like, wow, look, I can make all your dreams come true. And Theon's just like, I don't know, I'm here.

It's silly because a lot of people do the whole like make the Iron Islands great again, like Trump style, like jokes about Euron and his speech at the Kingsmoot in show or in the books. And like, it's true, though though he has that kind of psychotic charisma you know it's that charisma that carries him through so i'm really excited to see him yeah he is a great villain it's gonna be fun like wins don't quite get all that we don't quite get how well he's built up with all that other world he knows in the show it's so weird to think about how these books are gonna be when we read them all one more time all of them you know what i mean like when we have all of them because right now we're reading it one book at a time you know like oh for sure it's gonna be so great to see like what a lot of things are pointing to

yeah it'll feel nice to finally be done and then we can finally all rest and die we can quit this podcast yeah we can i mean like by then hopefully by then hopefully we'll have like already gone through we might be on a new book series in 30 years well actually you know if we are lucky we won't be done with the podcast by the time both of us you know what i mean yeah like this could come out next week. Both of them. Stop. They could come out tomorrow.

That's not going to happen. They're coming out. It's coming out last week already. We already have our copies. That's true. That's true. You guys might not have yours. Theon thinks of feeling Asha up, but instead changes his mind because she would just brush

his hands away and tells her he plans to honor her at the feast tonight with a seat in the crowd. He goes all beyond the dais, but you can be among the feasters. He says he'll come get her when his dad gets drunk and goes to sleep. This is so funny, because later on, of course,

Asha's like, get the better seat. Theon says that his dad is the father of a great man. Not that Balon is a great man. Asshole. So great. In return, Asha tries to convince Theon, why don't you visit

your mother? You have a mother, right? Is she supposed to be on Harla? That's a rumor? Theon's like, maybe after the war. I'm too busy right now, you know, for women. And, man, we won't get there for a little bit because the Asha chapters are for a little bit, probably. I just want to comment.

Alanis Harla is so sad. She wanders the halls with a candle looking for all the sons she lost in the Greyjoy Rebellion, which reminds you like the Greyjoy Rebellion did nothing but tear people apart in the Iron Islands, all for a little fleeting glory. Sure. but tear people apart in the iron islands all for a little fleeting glory sure then you realize like later on that like when uh uh esgrid is goading theon into visiting alanis and then you see alanis later on you're like shit she really meant all of that like theod call your mom okay go see your mom skype her at midnight about how your noodles are going i don't know it might asha's right it might be exactly what alanis needs and it makes me hope or like think that maybe this is a meeting that we're gonna get one day since we didn't actually see it here

yeah but i also think we're probably just gonna like he or she died and thea will have bitter regret or maybe you know something good will actually happen have you read these books yeah i have there have been good things that happened like um she said um she said let me think there are good things that have happened like uh the time that the time that no there's like definitely things it's just like they get undercut like like um the time that uh hours later that sansa hugged luther brun and he was like hairy in the air more like hairy the arse that was a good moment but that's it that's the best you got no um there was also i i just like didn't want to go for

anything like too morbid like there, there's, of course. Yeah, because it's supposed to be a happy moment, Eliana. I was going for, like, I was thinking, like, the purple wedding. That was good. Or, like. Oh, my God. I guess that's kind of morbid. That's the thing.

I'm trying to think of something that, like, was, like, good, good. You know? Yep, I know. Anyway, I'm sorry. So they enter Pike, and dogs descend on them, lovely doggos, and the doggos are, like, lovingly attacking Eskrad. They're all over

her, the puppers are like, hello! Hello! And Theon's like, stable man, like, stable boy, take care of the horses and get these dogs out of here, away from this lady. But the stable man ignores him, and he's like, Lady Asha, you're bad. And Theon's like lady asha you're bad and theon's like no and everyone here's like yeah it's pretty funny pretty funny it's like the

ultimate like got him it is she like really she really committed to her role you know commit to the bit asha gray joy commit to the bit, Asha Greyjoy. Commit to the bit. She's gonna commit like even if that stableman hadn't come, like someone's gonna eventually come later but she's gonna commit until that reveal. She's gonna keep this going. Also I guess

Theon and dogs don't really get along, huh? Definite foreshadowing. Absolutely. I noticed that hardcore this time through don't trust them if they don't like dogs yeah agreed asha smiles she tells the stable boy that her little brother accompanied her back the pimples went when the breasts came she explained while she tussled with the dog but i kept the vulture's beak. Why didn't you tell me? Asha let go of the hound and straightened.

I wanted to see who you were first, and I did. She gave him a mocking half-bow. And now, little brother, pray excuse me. I need to bathe and dress for the feast. I wonder if I still have that chainmail gown I like to wear over my boiled leather small clothes. She gave him that evil grin and crossed the bridge with that walk he had liked so well, half saunter and half sway.

What a great exit. Chainmail gown, that's some Met Gala shit. Hell yeah, that's some Hunger Games shit. Yeah. What Asha does here though, you know that whole like really committing to the character it reminds me to an extent of what barrison selmy does as arson whitebeard to test danny you know

that whole idea but i wanted to see who you were first that happens in like literally this same book yes absolutely again playing with those roles on identity i love it yeah george is into it it's a thing i do love in the same passage, there's a line and Theon looks at Wex, he's like, why didn't you tell me? And he clouts Wex in the ear. The literal language is he clouts him in the ear and I'm like, oh, Dunk.

Yeah, I mean, the Hedge Knight came out after Clash, right? Yeah. Like right after, between the storm. So probably something he was thinking about. Yeah, absolutely. He was probably working he was thinking about. Yeah, absolutely. He was probably working on Duncan Egg around the same time. Sure.

The young man goes to his chilly chambers, and he's feeling sorry for himself and ashamed. I mean, rightfully so. He thinks about how he has no place here, thanks to his sister. It's not really because of Asha. He chooses some plain garments, make sure there are no baubles, and he gets ready, because

he's like, I haven't gotten any for the Iron Price. Then he thinks about how the wildling he killed to save Brand had no ornament, and that he's feeling pretty sour about that. He's like, that's my cursed luck! I killed the poor! It makes me kind of bittersweet happy reading these chapters

knowing that Theon gets another chance but also it's that thing george plays on with the careful what you wish for kind of thing and again though the poor like this is a roach moment like come on yeah i was like you're just like oh no i kill the poor you're not even they're not even poor like i mean they just did they have a different culture than you yeah yeah but like even so for him to just be like if only I were killing rich people like

damn I can't believe I'm like punching down this whole time not to be like dude I'm telling you after I watched Speed Racer yesterday I get it I get it punch up punch up bro there's just like no self-reflection of like me and could i be the bad guy here

theon then enters a log and smoky hall uh to 400 of his father's men feasting i love the way that he describes there's harlots fromlaw. There are Blacktides from Blacktide. Then there's Spars, Merlins, and Good Brothers from Great Wake. That's not funny. There's Saltcliffs and Sundries from Saltcliff. And Botleys and Winches from the other side of Pike.

And then you got some Thralls, I guess, just like being there, casually, pouring ale. And there's some axe throwing, and like and like music and dancing yes you know these sound like some redneck squid parties right like they honestly sound like they'd be a blast i was thinking that like this sounds like a fun party in theory yeah absolutely like the ironborn are like i don't know they have like meth labs and cars in their front yard, you know? Theon faces the dais and does not have the seat of honor. Neither the dancers nor the drinkers took much note of Theon Greyjoy as he strode to the dais.

Lord Baelin occupied the sea stone chair, carved in the shape of a great kraken from an immense block of oily black stone. Legend said that the first men had found it standing on the shore of Old Wick when they came to the Iron Islands. To the left of the high seat were Theon's uncles. Asha was ensconced at his right hand in the Place of Honor. You come late, Theon, Lord Baelin observed. All right, so there's a lot of smart people out there who will talk to you about things like the oily black stone that are mentioned here and the legend no we're not

going to talk to you about that we're going to talk to you about this one last line all right the thing where lord balan's like you come late beyond because it's probably foreshadowing probably so there's a lot of theories that have been come up by people that aren't us lots of smart people out there on how theon's storyline that might end and recreate that of torgon latecomer and you know the nuts and bolts of it are basically like torgon latecomer was like out like i don't know doing whatever he was doing and then his dad oregon the third gray iron died then torgon was the heir and like no one told him while he was gone they're his dad Auragon the third Grey Iron died. Then Torgon was the heir and no one told him while he was gone.

They were like, oh we're gonna just have a king's moot without him and his brothers were like, ooh it's gonna be one of us. But no! Aurathon good brother won instead. And I guess the good brothers are still around. And none of the other Grey Iron brothers who were I think all put to death.

Then later on Torgon returns and he declares that the king's moot was moot. I've been waiting forever to make this joke. It's a moot, moot, moot. The king's moot, moot. The king's moot is moot. Also, interesting because it made me think of something we

just talked about. What about Torgon the Half-Live? Oh yeah, Torgon, oh yeah targon uh similar names right similar names i'm wondering if like is this like a reference or like drawn from some other like story that i don't know oh i'm sure i'm sure it's some sort of historical thing that i don't know about yeah i'm sorry guys we're letting you down but anyway they begin to banter she makes fun of the clothing he wore the other day he says her hoberk melted away she says that her boat is better than his and then we get the most epic

banter in all the world that i'm gonna read to you guys theon asks if she lied about everything and she says i am wed with babe oh that part was true enough Asha leapt to her feet. Rolf, here! She shouted down at one of the finger dancers, holding up a hand. He saw her, spun, and suddenly an axe came flying from his hand, the blade gleaming as it tumbled end over end through the torchlight. Theon had time for a choked gasp before Asha snatched the axe from the air and slammed it down into the table, splitting his trencher in two, splattering his mantle with drippings.

There's my lord husband. His sister reached down inside her gown and drew a dirk from between her breasts. And here's my suckling babe. Iconic. Iconic. One of the most iconic scenes and phrases ever. Right? Like, that's just

so good. It's a pretty badass. And here's my suckling babe. Your bread bowl is cut, bitch. Call Panera. She just, like, grabs, like, an- Oh my god. She just grabs the axe out of there and throws it. Yes, Panera.

Yeah. You better go get yourself a new bread bowl, son. Broccoli cheddar? More like... no. French onion? More like French Iron Island? I don't know. I don't know. We tried. Everyone laughs and smiles at this,

including us. And also Theon's uncle, his father, and everyone in the hall. And Asha's just like, shooting my head, little bro. If you had troubled to learn the first thing of Sigrun, I could never have fooled you. Ten years of wolf and you land here and think to Prince about the islands,

but you know nothing and no one. Why should men fight and die for you? It's really sad because Theon has it in his head after being by Rob's side. He's like like I'm worthy I can do this I can do all this but she's right like why would men fight and die for you you know barely any battles you hunt otherwise you save Bran from some wildlings and you've seen a few men killed but what battle besides you know like whispering wood what are you in blunted

blades in the yards of Winterfell? Theon's a babby. He doesn't know how to lead the Ironborn right now. I mean, he just doesn't. He really doesn't. He is a babby. And he just, he doesn't inspire loyalty or know

how to talk to people either. Exactly! And he could never be a wolf. He could never be a squid either. He's just lost between the two. It reminds me of, um, is it Chicken Little? Chicken Little is the one who's like, the sky is falling. Yeah, so it's not that one. There's another one. Maybe it's just Ugly Duckling. I don't know. Or Stuart Little, but darker. I don't know. Why? Why should men die for this foreigner who claims he's of their land, which is also a theme we see played out throughout the story right like rulers and the why being questioned look at rob look at stannis

look at look at all of them i mean you know why should we fight for him and some have reasons and some don't but the feast drags on through several courses there's fish stew there's black bread there's spiceless goat okay first off i have the question of why are they not like at least salting any of this food why is there no spice they literally have salt like all around them it's called it's like a whole ocean right there's a whole sea out there but also it's a white eliana it's a white um going back to that idea earlier of a theon as experiencing that cultural diaspora i just think it's so interesting because a lot of people when they think of home or what they relate to from their culture they're always like yeah i loved i don't know my parents cooking or i love the

their associations with that are the food from home or from where they grew up. And Theon here is like, this shit sucks. Yeah. Yep. He hates it. He sure does. He does. Probably because, you know, his bread bowl got cut. And there's no spice. Yeah, maybe if anyone put any fucking

salt in anything. The only thing- The spice must flow. Yeah, the only thing salty here is Theon's attitude. Anyway, the food is finally cleared, and there's still ale and wine. Yeah, as the feast dies down, Balin tells them that he needs to meet with them after

this, and for them to wait around. So, Theon is wrong about everything. His sister isn't weak and ugly, his father still has his wits, and he can handle his booze, and he can stay up still. Like, that's everything Fyod kinda like was all like boastful about

in his bullshitting talk to Asgard. Wrong. Our lord father is waiting. And has for many a year. It will do him no harm to wait a little longer. But if you fear his wrath, scurry after him by all means you ought to have no trouble catching our uncles she smiled one is drunk on seawater after all and the other

is a great gray bullock so dim he'll probably get lost repeating back to him oh you said this so you know you can join them the idiot uncles you know what's weirder than Theon inadvertently hitting on his sister that dim great great bullock Victorian being like is my niece hitting on me idiot

that I think takes the cake though Asha and Theon continue their balking and he eventually scurries off for their dad and his dad apparently does have a plan and he doesn't want to hear anything about theon about planning what do you know about planning theon you ever even plan a wedding no theon just wanted to be seen as an equal at this point right and his dad couldn't even afford him that like i don't know if you've seen the Westeros High YouTube series.

Have you seen that? You know what I'm talking about? I think so. Yeah, where Ash from Hey Ash, Whatcha Playin' is in it. And there's a bunch of other YouTube stars, but they're all modern in high school. And prom is coming. Yeah, yes, I have seen that one. That's the best representation of Theon.

Let's be real. Like, that's... Though, okay. Like, froze forever! that's the best representation of Theon let's be real like that's like bros forever okay but I'm do take umbrage and I'm sure they know this but now they should not have said we do not party rock as their house words it obviously should have been we do not bro

I guess I don't really mind but like then it rhymes with we do not so I get it I get it it's the one thing. So, Balin unwinds his plan. He wants to send Theon with eight longships,

his uncle Aaron, Dagmar Clefjaw, and the Stones and the Drums, who were not at the feast. He is to raid the Stony Shore and fishing villages. So, in this moment, this is, for him, his Jon being made a steward-esque moment, right? Like, this is Theon, like, getting handed the short end of the straw.

It's garbage. He wants battle. He wants command. And he's being told no. Mm-hmm. And, of course, Balon gives a better job to Asha. Thirty longships to Deepwood Mott near Sea Dragon Point and take the castle. Theon holds his tongue, but he's pretty ticked. I should be the one to take Deepwood. He knew Deepwood Mont. He had visited the Glover several times with Eddard Stark.

But Victarion takes the main thrust. Balin gives this final speech. The main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up.

Salt Spear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you'll be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas. Once we hold Moat Cailin. The neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas. Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back

to the north. And if he is fool enough to try his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him and Rob the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle. Theon tries to argue against this plan,

but it's no use. His dad's set on it. Everybody does a little cheer of what is dead may never die. And Theon mumbles along. This is like that second time within this one chapter that Theon only mumbles the words

what is dead may never die while everyone else is doing it. And it makes him obviously seem a lot less zealous for the cause and like being ironborn. But of course course it also is showing us how disconnected he feels and how he's unfamiliar with all these things oh yeah i mean just like the last chapter when he kind of mentioned the gods on accident and his dad's like what fucking gods are you talking about yeah i know one god you little, damn. And then when he was

talking about it, I think it was in this chapter, and then Asha's like, or Esgrid at that time was like, so you don't believe in the drowned god? Theon travels along the rope bridge, and there's salt on his lips spraying from the water, and he slips and he falls to

his knees. Asha makes fun of him for being unable to hold his wine. And he's like, I liked you better as S-Grad. And she's like, I liked you better when you were nine. I think this is cute. I assume this is what sibling bickering is like. Yeah, no, I do like that. I think it's Swedish.

Not that Bigby is Swedish. But man, when is The Theon gonna have a good day right like I just realized we have to read the Winterfell chapters every single day sucks for Theon forever Theon's no good very bad Theon's horrible no good

very bad day slash week slash life slash forever yeah well that's Theon too that was a big one that was bulky slash week, slash life. Slash forever, yeah. Well, that's Theon 2. That was a big one. That was bulky. I think we're going to get through Theon 3 a little quicker,

but we do still have a lightning round between the two. That we do. Tyrion 6. While Stannis and Renly's armies advance on the other, and Tyrion uses this moment to poison his sister while he works on some courtly intrigues. Good guy, Tyrion. He's just looking out for her bowels. Arya's six.

After eight days of confinement in the village, Arya and company make their way to Harrenhal, serving under Tywin Lannister. Daenerys, two. Daenerys' khalasar is welcomed to the celebration in Qarth, and Daenerys is given an entire wing of Zorro's palace, and then Jorah tells her of Robert

Baratheon's death and the Seven Kingdoms Civil War. Bran IV. Meera and Jojen talk to Bran about his third eye and Luin tells him that Greensight is not real. You're not fucking real, Luin. Well, not anymore because he's dead. I know, I know. I kind of

felt that. I was like, I love Luin. Tyrion VII. Lancel reveals where and why his loyalties lie to tyrian then tyrian blackmails lancel into being his spy later he sneaks off to be with shay aria seven jack in hagar returns one of three favors to aria killing her boss chiswick when requested when requested. Catelyn attempts to mediate with Stannis and Renly, and she gets to hear Stannis' press release firsthand. Sansa 3. Joffrey makes Sansa pay for her brother's victory. Tyrion Lannister steps in to protect her.

Catelyn 4. In prayer, Catelyn finds that Cersei's incest is the cause for her family's suffering. She asks Renly to support her in calling a great council, but instead she sees him killed by blood magic! Right, not what you planned. Magic! Jon 4. Ghost leads Jon to Dragonglass at the Fist of the First Men. Bran 5.

After Robb's victory, Jojen's prophecy has come true. The next one involves the sea flowing over Winterfell's walls? Who knew that? What? No. The sea's so far from Winterfell. Bran's warnings

fall on deaf ears until Ser Rodrik arrives with Reek, whom Jojen has seen skinning Bran's face. Ew. Tyrion 8. Tyrion tries to use Renly's death to house

Baratheister's advantage, sending Littlefinger to forge an alliance with House Tyrell for the crown. And so we're here at Tyrion 3. Theon's victory at the Stony Shore comes easy. Too easy for him, that is. Theon comes up with a new plan to impress his father, utilizing Dagmar Clefjaw.

Theon 3. The chapter's open with Theon wiping spit off his face as his friend-turned-enemy, Benfred Tallheart, accuses him of being a traitor. Arryn sees the spitting as an affront and tells Theon he ought to kill Benfred for that insult. Theon says he wants to question Benfred first. Benfred refuses to answer questions and we learn he's wounded. Aaron says Benfred has insulted everyone.

Uncle Aaron was relentless. When he spits on you, he spits on all of us. He spits on all of us. He spits on the drowned god. He must die. As they bicker over command, Theon thinks bitterly that Aaron was sent to watch over him and how much power Aaron has over the Ironborn because people fear the drowned god. Maybe like Theon should too? I don't know. We've already seen this in Theon's first chapter and a bit in the second,

but it's really setting up that importance that religion's going to play in the politics of A Song of Ice and Fire that comes up in Thies. Yeah, absolutely. It's not just in King's Landing. We see it all over the nation of people trying to cling to it. Yeah, yeah.

Benfred keeps throwing insults at Theon which honestly, Benfred just keeps coming up with new stuff and I'm kind of impressed. They force Ben Fred to his knees and then they stuff his mouth with rabbit skin, which he has on him and his belt and being one of the wild hares. Theon ordered Stig to silence him, and Eren's like, no, we gotta kill him. gotta kill him. Aaron says Theon must be the one to drown Benfred, and Theon doesn't feel up for it, and has Aaron do it, but

not before one more reproachful look. Theon, you reek of wolf, like these were people that you were friends with, and you just can't do it. You can't pull the trigger. That was a big part of it, like he was friends with Benfred, but even then, hey, first of all, reek.

Nice. Thanks, you like that? I do hey first of all reek nice thanks you like that you reek of wolf i like it but i mean like at the same time kind of because i don't know both the ironborn and the northman emphasize that the one who like passes a sentence must swing the sword that's even like here where aaron's like you should kill him. But Theon can't bear to do it, and it shows that he can't live up to either society's expectations. And it's very much about him fitting in nowhere. And then, yeah.

It's like, maybe it's for the best that it happened like this. I don't know, Stig wasn't a very good headsman, so maybe it's good that we're drowning him instead of having his head hacked off. And I don't know, it's good that we're like drowning him instead of having his head hacked off and i don't know it's interesting that these two things happen so close to one another here because theon having someone else like execute benfred and then the thought that he has that stig isn't a good headsman

like because that means that benfred would have then had a painful and prolonged death and this comes into play by the end of a clashash of Kings, where we see that Theon has, like, forced himself to contort to the expectations of both the Ironborn and the North. He's the one who executes Farlin in Winterfell, who's that kennel master that he knew he grew up with. And when Farlin's like, well, if you're gonna have me killed, like, Ned Stark always did his own killings. Same as how Arryn reminded him that Theon should be the one doing so here and so theon does it but turns out theon is also a poor headsman and it takes him four cuts to kill farland it's so bad and it shows that theon's not that much of a better like headsman which is like what he's judging stig for kind of reminds me of Rob too and his difficulty in

beheading Karstark. Yes. And how like that was his beginning of his downfall. You know I mean that was like totally foreshadowing like oh it's not going so well. Yeah I mean they're like wee babs and also none of them have a Valyrian steel sword. Right that shit cuts through everything but

just regular steel? Come on. Y'all don't have ice. Ned made it look easy. He really did. We learn that Theon has been around to Torrin's Square before. Just three years ago, it was held by Benford's Uncle Leobald, of course. I enjoy the contrast we get with him and the Miller's boy and here at Torrin and that hesitation it really reminds me of like john with egret or with corin or in the fist or you know just theon's martyrdom by killing the miller's boys he thinks it's still bad enough to keep him in control of winterfell and the ironborn but also that he's saving his soul and conscience almost by not killing brandon ricken which we see his conscience becomes a huge deal in the following chapters after Clash especially in

that godswood he only kills the poor yes Theon looks at the carnage and the dead men and the horses after raiding these stony shores he thinks that the horses deserve better

and I mean like yes the horses did deserve people but also like Theon the people holy shit Theon the horses deserve better and I'm like yes the horses did deserve people but also like Theon the people holy shit Theon the people deserve better too oh my god and I can't believe I'm like you're over here just like people above horses wow I equal

equal I'm just like equal horse rights just like I mean he just care about the people. That's true. Theon sees Gavin Harlaw sawing a finger for a ring, which means he's paying the

iron price for it. Theon considers doing the same to get some bling, but decides that it leaves a bitter taste in his mouth. Yeah, part of this comes from thinking- part of this comes from thinking of what Ned would have said about it when a moment ago he was just thinking how Balin would have approved of taking things using the Iron Price. This chapter has these hints of something we see with Arya and Sansa when the wolf shines through their no-one composure, so it's interesting that this is shining through Theon's composure as well. So it's interesting that this is shining through Theon's composure as well.

Theon looks over and he sees one of the Botley boys in a shoving match with a drunk man named Todrick. Theon thinks of the old Iron Men. He used to feel like blood drunk after battle and then they'd go like berserk and they'd be able to fight without feeling pain. But I mean, apparently Todrick's just like normal drunk. And I don't know something about that language makes me think of whites especially because they're all like what is dead may never die i don't know theon tries to hit todrick's drinking horn with his bow and arrow but then todrick moves and so instead of hitting the horn he just fatally wounds todrick in the stomach and kills him and then he tells everyone, he gives them

all a fucking lecture of like, I said no fighting over the loot. He's like, this is gonna make people take me seriously now. Aww. He's just like, for some reason that didn't feel like as good. This whole thing didn't feel as good as the Whispering Wood.

That's what you're fighting for, kid. Yeah, he's so confused about his loyalty and his heart. That's what you're fighting for, kid. Yeah, he's so confused about his loyalty and his heart. He's puzzled about the rabbit skins, and he's mad Benfred didn't even send a fucking scout ahead. They were just joking and singing, it was so easy.

He was gonna question their leader and never expected it to be his boy, Benfred. So after he ordered those men to just go ahead and do the killing the reason why they're holding rabbit skins other than you know symbolism probably of like oh spring boy is dying because they're fucking idiots and not playing scouts i'm just singing anyway um the reason benfred has them and that they're drinking and singing is that benfred and his friends their other northern lances they formed a crew after hearing about how well rob stark had been

doing in the war of the five kings and they called themselves the young wolves and then they were told to be put in their place and so leo bold's more like y'all are a bunch of rabbits so they decided to call themselves the wild hares instead of the young wolves wild wolves and then they just carry rabbit skids around them and that's like their sign much safer really really yeah and probably like you probably actually get um maybe food out of it to an extent oh yeah probably probably there you go you're solving their problems yeah except for the part where they're dead now okay well we can fix that we don't know uh the wives and daughters had already been claimed to be salt wives but only if they were young and pretty if they were older ugly they were just raped and killed or

taken for thralls if useful it's just yeah yeah it's gross nothing about the old way is glamorous or great right like when you think about it you just stay on your rock stay on your island grow some some boulders not much not much yeah there's nothing great nothing really that good about it and theon was the one of course he planned the attack because he was told to like fucking go do this thing and um like everything else in this chapter he's like i didn't like the taste of attacking sleeping people when there was like a village or something yeah it's kind of like dirty yeah

it's like especially with what you were saying about Ned as his father like look him in the eye hear his final words yeah I mean he was like taught to fight against someone who could fight back I guess not to just go about raiding even though that's I guess his Not to just go about raiding,

even though that's, I guess, his heritage. And I love how many times in this chapter we're reminded of how the things that the Ironborn are supposed to be doing, like, leaves a bad taste in his mouth. So he's like, he didn't like the taste of it, or it left him with a bitter taste. Like, Theon doesn't have an appetite for all of this. This, like, violence.

My poor soft boy so small so wiggly so squid like a lot of theon's like early chapters like these ones are doing so much of that character groundwork and no with some of the second gray joy rebellion that's like in the backdrop coming starting to happen but like the forefront of all three of these chapters is actually Theon's disconnect with his homeland so you have it like set up with what the first chapter

shows us how much has changed since Theon has been gone these past 10 years the second one shows us how much Theon does not recognize through him not recognizing his sister like he doesn't know his own family he's a stranger here and all these people are strangers to him and then the third shows us that now theon has no place in the north and so he's forced to

try and find a place among the ironborn he kind of did this himself and while the first two chapters are the ironborn telling theon he doesn't belong what we're seeing in this third chapter is theon's own subconsciousness telling him that he doesn't belong with them either and like nothing that's traditional for the ironborn like if it's like drowning people who disrespect them raiding sleeping people even just like cutting off a ring off a man he's already dead like he's already dead theon it's not gonna hurt him right may as well just take it just do it like comfortably i guess i don't know get your bling but all of it like none of this feels right or tastes good to him he can't like savor

any of it so like the only fucking ironborn person who dies during this entire raid and crew like the only fucking ironborn person who dies during this entire raid and crew is killed by theon and for some reason he's like yeah that'll make him respect me instead of being like yo this guy's going around killing ironborn and he won't even kill the fucking north kid yeah it's not a good look it's definitely like him going there was not, he didn't do his best right there, for sure. Theon thinks Asha is going to get to do all the flashy work and that songs will be written for her and not him. So he comes to Dagmar

Clefjaw, who he's been itching to meet again the past two chapters, so we finally get to meet him. Dagmar's all, we won, why aren't you smiling? And he asks how many Ironborn died, and Theon's like oh yeah uh one because i killed him idiot i'm just like a face palming the best part though is dagmar is like some men are meant to kill and i'm like same or born to be killed or born to be killed yes

and he has like this horrifying this ugly smile and i And I like Dagmar. I like him a lot. I like Dagmar. I mean, like, that's such a fucked up thing to say, but he's just so jolly. I relate. Relatable. Theon thinks that Dagmar has given him more smiles than Balin and Ned combined, which is kind of sad. Yeah. Right? Like, that's real sad.

Like, Theon thinks back to how he ought to have gotten a smile from rob for saving brand but didn't as well and it's just sad it's like what if someone hugged him as a kid or smiled at him or like hey smiler smile smile oh wait i don't know the smiling is just like all this foreshadowing and it hurts it hurts was theon always just smiling at people so that they would hopefully smile back or to make up for the fact that no one was smiling at him? Maybe. I don't know. That's sad. Meta.

Theon approaches Dagnor with a proposition. He asks him to come aside. He's like, let's go talk about this in private. Theon's like, we didn't get enough horses. There's some horses here but not enough dagmar's just like what the hell do we need horses for because as we discussed earlier horses just like poop on the decks and stuff really difficult dion's like yeah sure but we're not gonna sail so we actually do need the horses dagmar's like why balon said we're gonna raid the

coast and dion is he's he's about to like float something here right he's worried that he's seeing disapproval in Dagnor's eyes but like it could be interest yeah absolutely especially because he's playing off of Dagnor's pride like he realizes that Dagnor is very full of pride and he is playing off of it so he starts

off with a fact before he tries to flatter Dagnor you are my father's man. His best man, and always have been. Pride, Fionn thought. He is proud. I must use that as pride will be the key. There is no man in the Iron Islands half so skilled with spear or sword. You have been away too long, boy. When you left it was as you say, but I am grown old in Lord Greyjoy's service. The singers call Andric best now. Andric the Unsmiling, they name him. A giant of a man. He serves Lord Drum of Old Wick, and Black Loren and Carl the Maid are near as dread. This Andric bodes you. This Andric may be a good fighter, but men do not fear him as they fear you.

Aye, that's so, Dagmar said. The fingers curled around the drinking horn were heavy with fingers, gold and silver and bronze, set with chunks of sapphire and garnet and dragon glass. He had paid the iron price for everyone beyond new. If I had a man like you in my service, I should not waste him on this child's business of harrying and burning. This is no work for Lord Balin's best man. Dagmar's grin twisted his lips apart and showed the brown splinters of his teeth. No offer his true son, he hooted. I love that Dagmar calls him out.

I love it. And also, Carl the maid reference. I love him. My hubs. I love him so much. I love that he calls him near dread because like when we hear Ash's chapters, Carl's kind of introduced as soft to us, right? Like we get it from her view.

She sees him differently. It's really interesting. It's funny because, like, literally his title is Carl the Maid in, like, an ironborn culture that doesn't sound flattering. No, not at all. But Dagmar's all like, ah, he's a new dread. It's like when you have those, what, really tall people, like, they're called tiny. Yeah. Theon grapes about Asha getting to do all that good stuff, though,

like Dagmar was right, calling him out. Dagmar explains, like, Theon, you're taking it too hard. You're taking it too hard. You take this business too hard, boy. It is only that your lord father does not know you. With your brothers dead and you taken by the wolves,

your sister was his solace. He learned to rely on her and she has never failed him. And then Theon says that the Starks at least knew his worth. And Dagmar points out, well, like, Theon, that's the fucking problem, okay? Everyone thinks that you and Rob are really good friends. Yeah, like no one trusts him. Theon retorts he was no stark and thinks internally ned always made sure of that well it's worth noting that every time theon does think of that

he doesn't he never says or thinks the word ned so he's like eddard eddard lord eddard yes eddard stark like he'll sometimes even like throw in a last name you know and the way he references Ned shows like that distance between the two of them because you have all these other Northmen who like obviously didn't grow up in Winterfell or anything and later on they're all like oh we're gonna do it for the Neds girl like like they obviously had camaraderie with him and for Theon to always be calling him Eddard is very indicative. Yeah, extremely formal, keeping that attachment away. Mm-hmm. Dagmar tells Theon he can prove himself by doing

all this stuff at Stoney Shore, and Theon's like, nah, let my uncle do that. He tantalizes Dagmar with the prospect of taking a castle because Dagmar still lusts for glory. Theon says Dagmar ought to take Thorin Square. Though the stone walls cannot be

set to fire as the ironborn are used to theon orders dagmar and how to lay siege to it that is not the old way have you forgotten iron men fight with swords and axes not by flinging rocks there is no glory in starving out a foeman. I just realized something when you read that aloud. So, what? North, maybe, is, like, all about honor, but the Ironborn are all about glory.

Oh. Okay, that's it. Theon says that Theobald Theobald's a motherfucking dude. Theon says that Leobald not theobald theobald's motherfucking dude theon says that leobald won't know that ironborn don't do siege machines and shit which is really interesting that they don't know that and like it's fine leobald's gonna just do that he's gonna send a raven to winterfell and that's gonna make the castle in roderick summon his strength to come help

torn square dagger's like dude this is a suicide mission. This is stupid. We're never gonna be able to take the square. And so the chapter ends with Theon going, it's not Torrin Square I mean to take. Yes! It's a perfect echo! It is. It is. Of, like, that first Theon chapter.

Theon also, his plan, it's interesting, it's like a blend between both ironborn and northern or like mainland strategic thinking here because that idea of flushing people out of winterfell to take the north and guard it is something that we heard in like balon's plan but siege warfare is like totally a mainland thing as is of course using horses and i think that the problem is the world keeps telling theon that he needs to be like one or the other and if he can't be any of those he's nothing be a dragon theon yeah be a unicorn go to skagos and like while theon isn't like he's not a good

person he's all like i only kill poor people and his plan's not honorable but you know he's able to draw on that expertise of both of his backgrounds and that should actually be seen as a strength of his not a drawback and i i feel this is so relatable going back again to what eve was talking about in those earlier tweets but it's it's difficult to get to that point. Well, and he was never allowed to be himself. He doesn't know who he is. That's true. And it's super also worthwhile with that, like, to think about, like, he doesn't know who he is. He was never allowed to be a Stark.

He's never allowed to be a Greyjoy. And now has his chance to be a Greyjoy. And he's still not being allowed to. So he has to break out on his own. And obviously, we know what happens after that. Yeah. be a Greyjoy and he's still not being allowed to so he has to break out on his own and obviously we know what happens after that. Yeah, he's trying to forge his own identity and he gets

a different identity voiced onto him again of Reek as opposed to Ironborn or Northman. Yeah, he gets all of those identities stripped away. He doesn't get any of them. So you get to see who Theon's gonna be and wins. Yeah yeah i hope that he gets to really get on that redemption path and i hope he lives because i do like theon i also like

that this chapter ends similarly with that you know like we said similar to that last chapter but also it ends with victorian kind of did the same thing, right? Thinking about taking Daenerys, right? Thinking like oh, I'm not taking that. So it's like all the Ironborn have this suspenseful ending. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It's like poetry. It rhymes in the words of George Lucas.

Yeah, so that's exactly what I say when I read a Victarion chapter. Yeah. A rose by any other name. Would still be Victarian chapter. Yeah. A rose by any other name would still be Victarian. Yes. I was going to say, that's a happy moment, though, in the books, when Theon

and Asha meet again in dance. He goes, Theon, my name is Theon, and he's like, I recognized you this time, and I was like, baby! That's a happy moment. Alright yeah that's happy-ish I mean besides the circumstances it's happy yes it's a happy moment I recognize you okay anyways wow those are a lot lot of buildup in those two chapters. And I know they weren't like super exciting chapters as far as content,

because the next two chapters and the chapter after that, it's a wild ride from here on out. It is. It's a little dark. I mean, you all know Theon chapters get fucking real. Yeah. You guys, thanks for listening in to episode 37, Theon 2 and 3 tonight with us we are

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from The Winds of Winter on. As always, I have been your host, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as LizaNarbor or at LizaNarborGold.com And I've been another one of your hosts Eliana also known as glass table girl. Thank you everyone. Thanks for listening guys.