Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 4 - Eddard VI/VII

Episode Date: May 23, 2018

Eliana and Chloe embark on a journey through each character's POV in ASOIAF, starting with everyone's favorite honorable patriarch: Eddard Stark.  While the tension surrounding Jon Arryn's death begins to ramp up, Ned pays a visit to a certain apprentice of a mystical, Qohorik smith, and finally attends the Hand's Tourney, where he soonafter learns that Robert was meant to die in the melee. Be sure to check out Shakespeare of Thrones' new essay on Stannis and Macbeth.    intro by Anton Langhage.   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/   Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: https://liesandarbor.tumblr.com

Hello and welcome back to the Girls Gone Canon podcast. I'm Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza Marber on Twitter and Tumblr or at Drunk Aeswaf, Drunk A Song of Ice and Fire History on Twitter. Hello, and I am Eliana. And you probably know me as Glass Table Girl on the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit, and on the Maester Monthly podcast, and as Arithmetric over on Twitter. Welcome back to the fourth episode of Girls Gone Canon!

I felt like that was as party girl as we could get out of it. the fourth episode of Girls Gone Canon. Of Girls Gone Canon. I felt like that was as party girl as we could get on it. I also was just making sure I had the right number. It is episode four. We have gone through three episodes so far. We are on chapters six and seven of Ned's chapters. We're so excited to be going through this. We'll talk a little bit about what goes on in these chapters. But first, let's talk about some things that you all said.

Yeah, we got a lot of emails and tweets to note this week. A couple fun things we'll get into. But first, we did get an email from a lovely follower named Holly, aka Lady Bird. Hello, aka Lady Bird on Twitter. Yes, that's her, right? Yes. Holly sent us an in-depth email touching on a lot of subjects, and we're going to just respond and talk about some of the things that she brought up. So first, Holly talks about some of the and we're gonna just respond and talk about some of the things that she brought up so first holly talks about some of the stuff we said regarding cersei and jamie when bran was thrown out the window in his chapter and says that uh in response to the previous episode you stated that cersei was the only quote-unquote good guy in the whole Bran trying to be murdered twice

fiasco. I have to lovingly disagree. If you look at the text when Bran discovers the twins having sex in the tower, he saw us, the woman said shrilly, and then when Jaime pulls Bran up and says take my hand before you fall, Cersei responds, what are you doing? The woman demanded. And then, the man looked over at the woman. The things I do for love, he said with loathing. Cersei emphasized that Bran saw them

and something needs to be done, then protests when Jaime keeps Bran from falling. Jaime knows Cersei wants him dead, that's why he says that iconic line with loathing. Later, when Cersei is protesting that he shouldn't have thrown Bran from the tower, it's classic Cersei manipulation. She's manipulating him into taking all the blame while she's come out as innocent. When has Cersei ever been honest with Jaime and not manipulated him? I always laugh too

when people quote that Cersei loves her children. What loving thing has she ever done for her kids? We always have to remember the unreliable narrative. Sometimes characters say things that are in direct conflict with the evidence George R. R. Martin presents us with. So I have a couple of things to say in response to this, and I want to point out that we aren't saying necessarily that Cersei is the good guy at all. We're not saying that she's a good guy, more of just that her response was the more measured and rational one, And I would like to make the case that she didn't manipulate Jamie

into throwing Bran out the window and that she actually had a vested interest in that not being the outcome. So we learn more about this directly from Jamie's own point of view chapter about his motivations for throwing Bran out the window and about why Jamie made that decision. Circe does protest to Jamie throwing Bran out the window and about why Jaime made that decision. Cersei does protest to Jaime throwing Bran out the window.

And I think that actually comes out of her own sense of self-preservation, playing into that idea again of her narcissism. A flashy attempt at assassination isn't right for the situation because it leads to exactly all of the things that have happened in the story thus far. Like, you see that it's a very messy situation. It raises more suspicion among the Starks and continues to foster that ill will between the two families. Not that the Lannisters don't feel poorly towards the Starks. It's just that, you know, if someone's trying to fly under the radar,

you don't do things that bring attention to yourselves. And talking to Bran about it would have been a more low-key solution. Jaime himself actually admits this in his own point of view chapter and says that it wasn't Cersei who manipulated him into it, because Cersei is panicked afterwards. And Jaime himself states his motivations clearly when Brienne accuses him of throwing an innocent boy out the window. Innocent? The wretched boy was spying on us. All Jaime had wanted was an hour alone with Cersei. Their journey north had been one long torment, seeing her every day unable to touch her, knowing that Robert stumbled drunkenly into her bed every night in the great creaking wheelhouse.

Tyrion had done his best to keep him in a good humor, but it had not been enough. Jamie was upset and flung Bran out the window for spying on them and for interrupting the first chance that Jamie had in weeks to have sex with Cersei. When he speaks to Catelyn, he also gives the same sort of reason. He never once feels remorse for it, and it is his own own doing and you'll note even in this chapter that jamie says what tormented him was seeing cersei every day unable to touch her and knowing that robert stumbled drunkenly into her bed every night in that great creaking wheelhouse he says it to himself this is his interiority what upsets him even in that situation is that he knows that Robert, another man, gets to have Cersei. Not that Cersei continued to endure marital rape from Robert or that she didn't even want him in

her tent. So I don't think, I'm very sure that it wasn't Cersei's idea to throw Bran from the window. It was very much Jaime. While people raise the case and George R. R. Martin, you know, sometimes raises the question of what would you do to protect your children, we have evidence from Jamie's internal dialogue that part of his motivations were out of spite from Bran interrupting his lovemaking session and that he wasn't able to finish. So this isn't Cersei's doing at all. And I agree that it's not about her love for her children. And I want to point out that this is not the argument that we make at all.

In the previous episode, we very much agree that Cersei is in many ways textbook narcissist and that she sees her children as extensions of herself and that's where her affection for them comes up comes from so I I don't want to conflate those two things because that's not the argument that we're making yeah I would say that Cersei's love for her children only exists of like you said self preservation which is one of her big traits I, these children are born of her incest. If these kids get found out that they aren't hers, they all go down. It's not just her kids going down. Oh no, my beloved children are dying. I also think it's important that not once in a single point of view from Jaime does he ever name Bran Stark. He calls him that Stark child.

And he also does not ever feel remorse for pushing Bran out of that window. It's very, like Aliana went into, which I don't even think I would have hit on because I wouldn't have thought that deeply. Jamie just wanted to fuck is really what it boils down to. And I mean, especially when you got the blood pumping

and it's not pumping in the right area you probably would make some horrible decisions like pushing a child out of a window which surprisingly cersei even says wow that was a little rash you know like maybe we shouldn't have thrown the kid from the window jamie do you want to finish on me now like i don't it was kind of one of those scenes holly did go on to ask us i don't know if you've already decided what character to do next i think cat would be a great character to follow ned uh she's his spouse but only has a few crossover moments with him i'd like to analyze why brand's her favorite child uh and she goes on with a little bit of

theorizing of her own because of john being the bastard that Ned brought home. Another child calling his son. I won't go into that because I think we will have a lot of that to go into eventually. I will touch briefly that I am really excited to go into Kat. Unfortunately, she's not for a while. Eliana and I have been joking that we are stuck together for over four years now, so we will get to her. You guys are in for the long haul, hopefully.

Cat is a very flawed character, and living, I mean, as a human, people give her so much crap, but you're living as someone that knows that your husband cheated on you and brought another kid home and treated it just like your kids dishonored you. And even though that's not what hurt her the most what hurt

the most was bringing home that other kid because i mean childbirth is kind of a bitch i think it's a big deal to carry like a watermelon in your stomach for nine months growing and then like push them out and have you know another one show up that you didn't put the work in on and all of a sudden you have to just love it like your own especially when the the mortality rate was so high for childbirth yeah exactly kind of shitty when birthing i mean brienne even says you know there are no songs for ladies that die in bed of childbirth that's like the bravest bed to die in i mean and funnily enough we have you know what like three four moms from the very beginning of the series were introduced at that died in childbirth or you know died in relation to that so we'll get into more of that for sure with catalan but i am excited for our her arc coming up we i don't think we're going to

spoil quite yet soon enough we're going to say who we are doing next for chapters we did kind of drop a very subtle hint last episode toward the beginning of the episode. So if you do go back, if you listened to that episode recently and want to think on it, if you hear it, let us know. Good catch if you catch it. So far, one person has caught that. One person. Okay, and finally, Holly brings up this really interesting and great point of,

I also have a theory that Georgeorge r martin purposefully uses the word other slash others in place of alternative words to keep up the tension that they are the real threat he even has the common curse the others take you in his world what do you ladies think so other lady here what do you think thanks other lady um i i do you think? Thanks, other lady. I do like that idea. I don't really think of it that often that it's a casual reminder of the incoming threat, but I don't really per se feel like it's solely used as a tension driver for all of the series.

I think it's definitely a nod toward that, but also it's more of a historical peculiarity or expletive referencing something from, you know, 8,000 years ago that's more of a historical peculiarity or expletive referencing something from you know 8 000 years ago that's seen as a hyperbolic idiom in language can like conferred to like you're looking at a story old nan would tell so the it's kind of like a like a silly expletive in my opinion but i do like that it's casually bringing them up and keeping them relevant so i could see a point toward that yeah i think that in in situations like that expletive of like the others take you it's definitely reminding you of course of that tension in the background um and creates that sense of irony uh as the story goes but i think that in terms of other situations a that was unintentional sometimes that's just the word

that's there but i also think that it could be worth remembering that a lot there are a lot of layers of things that are going on when we talk about the threat of the others and how they're positioned as the villain and even how they are called the others. There's a lot going on here, I think, with George R. R. Martin maybe sort of dancing around this idea of social othering, that philosophical concept of it, more of the social concept of it, where you view something as something, someone, as different and exclude them, which positions anyone who isn't the other, who inhabits what is seen as the norm or the default

in that place of power. It positions them as more powerful than what's the other in terms of that cultural aspect. And I think this is going to come into play a lot more as the story progresses, like with the others and their invasion, in some ways being seen as a mirror or playing thematically with that idea of a cultural other when Dany invades Westeros with her associate army, with these Dothraki and these Unsullied that many people are unfamiliar with. So I think that rather than it just being the icy others that are the real threat, it's that threat that we see in general, that threat of exclusion and othering that people tend to become prone to. Yeah. So thank you for that email, Holly. Thank you for listening.

This was really great and fun to think about and respond to, so we appreciate it. We'll get into it in a minute, but we've got some opinions about these chapters. We're kind of sitting here screwing around because we would rather talk about Netflix. If you

listened to episode 3, you may recall we were discussing how Ned just wanted to go home and netflix and chill and i can't recall who said it but someone on twitter combined it for us real easy and said you mean he wanted to netflix and chill and it spurred it spurred so much fun conversation love it holly at hunt pants uh gave us a good one we asked basically what would he be watching you know he was netflixing and chilling and holly gave us a series of unfortunate events if you haven't watched it or read it uh the newest netflix series on it is amazing they just put out

season two but the books are really a great read and it's just about this family of orphans that goes through hell constant hell but i loved that i had to laugh because yes ned's story is a series of unfortunate events absolutely i also want to qualify that i think this is a different holly from the one we were speaking to speaking about earlier another great suggestion comes from happy hour with tyrian who said that ned should be watching house of cards in the west wing and then you gotta figure it out ned life's not a fairy tale and i just think that'd be so funny if ned were taking social cues not social cues political cues from house of cards in the west wing maybe he should also watch veep i think i think we should throw veep in there too.

You gotta have some levity. And sometimes people just accidentally from what I've heard apparently I've heard that. Veep is in many ways also very accurate. I love that. It made me think a lot too. Life's not a fairy tale, Ned. Huh, you wonder where

Sansa got it from, guys. We also got a lot of suggestions for Lord of the Rings. I'm not going to credit that to one person because we got it a handful of times. And I do think he probably would. Which is a little sense of irony. I'm just mad that I

like, that didn't even pop into my head at first. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and I was like oh yeah, that, yeah that yeah but absolutely and finally ned stark himself user edard stark underscore one uh suggested that ned would be into watching this is us i've heard this is a really great show i haven't seen it i hear it makes people cry i would be into it yeah like it depends on the cries oh no i love a good cry me too it just like depends on what's making me cry yeah and that's why we're we started off with then you

know because we wanted to cry hey this episode's not so bad but next episode my friend is gonna be a big yeah that's true absolutely cry fest before we jump into our lightning round of what we missed which is what we've been doing the last few episodes to connect you to the chapters in between Ned's chapters briefly we wanted to kind of chat about this episode like I said we've been screwing around for a bit here just reading stuff because man it was a hard couple chapters to write and think about on i mean it's just kind of bland there's the this it's hard when you get to the very middle of ned's investigative arc it's uh a little bland it's a lot of setup and clues yeah it's a and i think it's definitely needed in that it's sort of that slower pace before things start picking up.

You know, it's a it's not a calm before the storm, but it's it's absolutely building that tension. As things start coming to a head later on in the series, later on in the story. Absolutely. Like next episode, we'll start off the calm before the storm and the end of the next episode we do is shit hit the fan you know speaking of episodes like let's say you're like watching a tv show you know some before you got to juxtapose those high tension moments with those lower tension ones and i think that's a little bit of what's going on in these chapters it's quiet before the storm. Yeah, absolutely. It's the Ned roller coaster. Well, I guess saying that,

I feel better now that we got that off our chests. So we know we're not trying to cheat you on this episode. There is some meat to get to. We will get to it, I promise. But for now, we're going to start off with our What We Missed lightning round. Between Eddard 5 and Eddard 6, we only have one chapter, which is John 4, where John continues to build rapport with some of the other members of the Night's Watch. When a new boy comes to join the Brotherhood, it's Zoe Deschanel.

It's Sam Waltarly, and he is unlike any other boy the recruits have met, with all of his admissions of being craven. But Jon gets to know the new kid and sees that he has his own brand of courage and brings him into the fold. In Ned 6, the events surrounding the death of Jon Arryn become more curious before Ned begins to piece things together. He learns Jon Arryn worked together with Stannis Baratheon, who has mysteriously fled to Dragonstone. To learn more about what the two men sought, Ned Stark pays a visit to a smith named Tobo Mott, where he meets a striking boy with a resemblance akin to someone we know. The way this chapter opens up is with Ned and the Small Council talking with Jano Slin. Everyone's favorite night about how there's been a lot of increase

in crime because of the upcoming tourney. And I just think this is an interesting way to talk about the issues that are coming up with the tourney planning. I don't know know don't you feel that it's kind of like reminiscent of how people report an increase in crime around major sporting

events like the super bowl and the world cup especially because like george r martin is really into football and sports oh absolutely they say that there was a drowning a tavern riot three knife fights a rape two fires robberies beyond, a drunken horse race down the street of the sisters. And like the worst part of all this is you only have to really change maybe four words in the sentence I just said to make it match up with modern day. There was also a woman's head found in a fountain and no one knows who the woman is. Like that's just a little wild. They get a little wild in the city of King's Landing. Yeah yeah i guess some of those words would be like what the tavern ryan i could still see there being three knife fights irl i mean it could happen and to uh react

to all of this and take care of all this crime jano slint requests more men for the City Watch to help keep the city intact. So Ned says that, yeah, here, go hire 50 watchmen. Forces Littlefinger to deal with all of the money parts. Littlefinger is like, I don't know where I'm getting this money from. Ned insists that if Littlefinger found money for the champion's purse, he should be able to find some coppers to keep the king's peace, which is significantly cheaper. Cheaper, also more important. And, you know, Ned is not here to make friends.

He ain't here to play the game of thrones. He is here, I guess, to try and order people around and, yeah, not make friends. Yeah, not make friends. As a gesture of goodwill and to show his own commitment to this, Ned also loans Slint, 20 of his household guard. You know, every successful endeavor needs 20 good men. Stop. 20 good men. I do think it's important that Ned, like, loaned his own personal men for this. It's a sign of good faith. It's Ned showing that

he can be a just ruler and helpful and, you know, looking for goodwill. And it's very unfortunate because we know that Ned was a good man that he could do things like this and provide good counsel and how his end comes. Ned complains about the tourney because he doesn't like that it's in his name. Robert keeps insisting that Ned should feel honored and Ned is just sour about it. He hates that all this money is just being put further into the hole for them in his own name. Pycelle insists that tourneys bring opportunity for glory and the lowly a respite from their woes, which we did touch a bit on in the last episode, so we won't unwind that too much. Littlefinger says that it brings in money, full ins, bow-legged whores, which I have to interrupt that this reminds me of Salt-N-Pepa. Shoot by Salt-N-Pepa.

You know, because the beginning's like, hey, you. No, not you. The bow-legged one. So that's how I feel about that line for Littlefinger. Thank you. That's important analysis. Interesting enough, though, this actually reminds me of the royal wedding this weekend. I don't know if you watched any of it.

I completely hate-watched some of the highlights and didn't care at all about any of it so don't look at me in which chloe acts like an absolute tsundere about the royal wedding dude i cried at the stand by me choirs singing stand by me i cried okay let's not talk about it let's just i'm a big sap okay like she was all walking down the aisle oh god was like, oh god, love is so beautiful. Anyways, so, back to Ned. When he's talking with the small council, Renly starts laughing about and talking about a story of how Stannis had the fantastic idea once to outlaw brothels. brothels which as i'm sure anyone would assume robert did not take well to that idea and asked if stannis also wanted to outlaw shitting eating and breathing too a little dramatic yeah a little not really the same but then renly continues on to wonder how Stannis with his views on I guess brothels and sex somehow managed to father Shireen he laughs about it uh if it were like him marching to his

battlefield to go do his duty and everyone else is also laughing along with these japes except for ned ned is like when is stannis gonna come back is he gonna come back i hope he comes back this is supposed to be a big political meeting they're supposed to be getting important things done i mean this is you know the city pays taxes and these people are supposed to uphold the realm for them and everybody is just making fun of stannis having sex with his wife and making a kid like that's very telling of what the the mood the atmosphere of these meetings is yeah he's like this is the meeting part not the water cooler part the water cooler parts later but that they're that's it the whole entire meeting for them is water cooler the council adjourns and ned returns to the tower of the hand to his solar he summons jory castle and he waits for his horse to be saddled perusing the

book john erin left behind lineages of the great houses by grand maester mallion and i was kind of looking around just to see because i do love when you get little little specks of information from small characters like Malian, but he has literally done nothing else of note except write this stupid book. And this book has the longest real title in the universe. I just need to read it because we need to just experience this together. The lineages and histories of the great houses of the seven kingdoms with descriptions of many high Lords and noble ladies and their children.

I love it. I think that's, I personally just think that's actually absolutely hilarious that that's the title. And I want to say that in Grand Nacer Malian's defense, like, sure, maybe he didn't do other things. But like, this is a robust Yeah, it is. I think he's all right with resting on this being his only big thesis thing. Yeah. He's good on it being one huge book instead of eight books. Yeah.

I mean, seven. Sorry. Oh. Wasn't it supposed to be five? Wasn't it supposed to be three? Paisel did warn Ned that this book is monotonous to read, and he was not kidding. And Paisel did warn Ned that this book is monotonous to read. And he was not kidding.

Ned is pouring over it. And no one is alive, like barely anyone is alive in this book that had been born while it was written. It's very old. And I thought it was very interesting that George had some very obvious little nods and foreshadows in this page and a half of text. Including, there was something here, some truth buried in the brittle yellow pages. Yellow pages. Just hold that one for a second. And we don't mean the business yellow pages.

We mean... We mean business and the pages are yellow. That's why it's like hair. Like hair. We're getting to that in a second of course the myth of land the clever who stole gold from the sun to brighten his curly hair this is literally george yelling at us twice in a page and a half the lannisters golden yellow blonde blonde l, blonde! It's kind of just screaming, but yeah, we'll touch on this in a bit. Next, Jory arrives and he briefs Ned on some of the interviews that he's been doing with people around the Keep, including one with Jon Arryn's stable boy, who's like, yeah, Jon tipped well.

stable boy who's like yeah john tipped well next there's sir hugh of the veil who ends up proving arrogant and uninformative due to perhaps his new position being a knight there's a serving girl who said that john aaron had been reading too much is that a thing is that a thing um and was gruff with his wife and concerned about his son's weaknesses but you know we know he's probably concerned about some other things and then finally uh we also not finally but we get this quote the pot boy now cord wainer had never exchanged so much as a word with lord, but he was full of oddments of kitchen gossip. The Lord had been quarreling with the king. The Lord only picked at his food.

What's a cord wainer? I don't know what a cord wainer is, actually. I don't even think that I've looked it up. We're going to find out. We're going to learn it right now. So a cord wiener is a shoemaker who makes shoes from new leather, which can be contrasted with the cobbler's trade because a cobbler repairs shoes. From being a pot boy to fixing shoes or making shoes. Sorry, that's interesting.

Good for him. I mean, rising up. Hey, little finger started at the bottom. So something that sticks out for me in that was that the Lord only picked at his food. And maybe we, again, we have nods to this later on that I will go into more. Eliana challenges me and we will chat about it. But maybe Jon Arryn did suspect poison in the end. Maybe. We don't know.

suspect poison in the end maybe we don't know some other things that we learned that john aaron was doing is that the lord was sending his boy to be fostered on dragon stone which we should be taking as a hint especially as we are told later in the story that robert had wanted sweet rob or Robert Aaron to be fostered with Tywin, a sentiment that Liza echoes. But then we learn here that John actually says that Sweet Robin was going to be fostered at Dragonstone, which is a very small but pertinent detail that some of the information we're getting from people doesn't quite fit. Another thing that we learn is that John Aaron had taken a great interest in the breeding of hunting hounds, which at first doesn't really stand out, but it makes perfect sense if you think about how John Aaron is looking, A, through the histories of these families and looking at what sort of traits were passed on from some of these noble houses. And so, you know, together with that book of marriages, this small phrase shows John Aaron doing some work in genetics, some rudimentary stuff, kind of like

Mendel and his pea plants, but you know, dogs. Which is, it's interesting. It's not only is he hand of the king and a politician, but kind of like a biologist. He's 23andMe, you know?

The lord had visited also a master armorer to commission a new suit of plate, wrought all in pale silver with a blue jasper falcon and a mother of pearl moon on the breast. And on a reread, you're like, oh, yeah, that's Tobo Mott. I'm going to go ahead and say it was definitely from Tobo, especially after we get through this chapter, which means John Aaron was a not the type of man to waste his time for free for Tobo. And B, he didn't want to come off as suspicious for purchasing nothing from the armor he visited. The king's own brother had gone with him to choose the design, the pot boy said, not Lord Renly, the other one, Lord Stannis.

The pot boy pretty much only provided kitchen gossip. That's all he really had, but it was just enough to give him information on who went where. He included that Lord Stannis accompanied John to meet the armorer about his elaborate new armor, and the stable boys were swearing that John Arryn was strong as heck when he went out. Like at the very end, John Aaron was strong. He went riding with Stannis. They were friendly.

And Ned finds this incredibly strange because Stannis and John were always cordial to each other, but they were never quite friendly. Which, of course, no one really gets to be friendly with Stannis unless they have long copper hair and some boobies. Or, you know, if you let him cut off four of your fingers um that too but speaking of stannis getting friendly the stable boy claims that stannis and john visited a brothel together and that is like that is wild i cannot imagine john erin lord of the Vale and the Eerie, going with Stannis to a brothel. It's like finding out your dad and your uncle went to strip club

and they're like the most non-strip club people you've ever met. Or is it like finding out that when your dad died there was also a sex worker in his bed? Yeah, a lot like that. Is it like that?

Is this what it feels like, Tyrion? Yeah. Can you weigh in? Probably not, because he's really late. Yeah, but except for the part where this is actually a completely different circumstance. Yeah, like they weren't fucking anyone. Yeah, they weren't on their Vegas trip Ned thinks it's like completely weird

because Stannis is stern and has no humor which I don't think is 100% true and we do want to just deliberate for a second we aren't really talking much about Stannis I don't know if you guys have noticed we've been kind of keeping him not prominent just because everybody does man everyone talks about Stannis. I don't know if you guys have noticed, we've been kind of keeping him not prominent,

just because everybody does, man. Everyone talks about Stannis. We'll get to him. Yeah, there's a lot of discourse out there on Stannis. And a lot of it is really good discourse and absolutely recommend that, you know, you keep abreast of that. But I think that we, it's just not going to be a big focal point for us until, of course, he comes to the forefront for a couple of stories like Davos, Kat, Brienne. Not really Brienne that much with her chapters, but we'll get there. It's just not now. But his name does keep coming up. And he's ghosted on the city with no word about when he's coming back.

But something that I do think is really fun about the way this chapter is put together and how it begins revealing this information and is structured is it is so important that while we were being talking earlier about how the small council meeting is kind of just gossip it's absolutely crucial that in that meeting we are given that information that stannis wanted to outlaw brothels. Because that gives us a foundation and a basis. It characterizes Stannis so that we know when we hear that Stannis and Jon Arryn went to go visit a brothel that it is very suspicious and something that shouldn't be thought of as them just going for funsies. The fact that Stannis keeps coming up, but he left the city with no word,

Ned realizes, he even says, something must have frightened Stannis. And we get all this exposition on Stannis, on how he withstood the year-long siege at Storm's End, surviving only on rats and boot leather and the onions that Davos, of course, snuck in. Jory even asks Ned, will we see Stannis? Are you going to call him at King's Landing? And Ned says, not yet. He waits it out.

He decides his next stop is going to be to visit the Armorer and asks for his doublet that explicitly shows he's the Lord of Winterfell and Hand of the King. Yeah, this is a moment where we don't usually see it, but Ned is flexing that power. He's putting his Lord face up. He thinks back on a moment that he had with Renly, who was showing him a portrait of Margaery, which could be hinting at, as we learn later, some of Renly's political machinations. hinting at as we learn later some of Renly's political machinations Renly kind of you get the feel from it from the very beginning in my opinion we get the one-two step on that in the

next chapter we get the hit of ah Renly show it to Robert Renly's trying to push it his way and we get a third punch where the reveal that Renly was really trying to push it to replace Cersei comes when shit hits the fan, so to speak. But Lyanna as Margaery doesn't work. Ned and Renly discuss and Renly goes, does it remind you of anyone? Of Lyanna, baby? Your sister, who you know better than anyone in the world? No, absolutely not. And Ned said, no way. Looks nothing like her. Margaery has soft brown doe eyes and chestnut curls where Liana would have had a long hard northern face with dark hair and grey eyes. It

serves a lot as faded memories for all involved and there is a lot more of that in the next chapter too. And as a tangent, I just want to put in a plug for this movie that I really liked called Le Retour de Bretagneur and it's a story of a man who goes off to war and

then he comes back like eight or nine years later and then people are like wait is this really that guy who lived here? Ned wonders how come Renly was never invited on some of these rides with Stannis the Armorer. Renly not being invited on these rides, this is Ned judging who he can trust in King's Landing because as this plot keeps unfolding, he's realizing that he can't really trust anyone. Not Robert, not anything. I mean, he's reading this huge tome book

that he's just like, I don't understand why I'm reading it, but I know i have to i know i have to he is following the footsteps of the men that he respects stannis and john as leaders throughout king's landing trying to figure out what scared these ferocious men or what shook them off the path of honesty and honor i also think that this chapter is showing us a lot of ned the way that he's presented a lot of people try to argue that he's dumb or politically inept which i don't agree with at all as we've discussed in the prior

episodes he comes from a different political background the north isn't the same as ruling the south ned isn't dumb for not picking up all of these puzzle pieces right away either but i do think ned's plot is dumbed down for the reader it's watered down because ned is our camera into this bubbling plot during a game of thrones george not only wants us to slowly reveal this plot to ned and only reveal it when all is too late and the wrong choices have been made but also wants to unravel it for the reader otherwise we wouldn't have a full book to peruse yeah and i also I also just think that, like, what? The conclusion that Ned is supposed to come to is that the secret Jon Arryn found is that Cersei and Jaime were banging?

And I just think that, like, I'm sorry, like, no matter who you are, I don't think that that's... Ned not coming to that conclusion doesn't make him dumb. It's, like, very low on the list of conclusions people would come to right away like in terms of things that people think are possible that's not usually very high they're not targaryens i mean everybody the people that were incestuous were targaryens otherwise cousins were okay but i mean anything closer and you're a targaryen that's literally what history had dictated that's what he knew.

You don't just marry your brother or sister or bang your brother or sister or have kids with them. It's not normal. It's frowned upon. The gods frowned upon. Yeah, and I mean, Ned had siblings, so he knows sibling-like towards their siblings and not like not the way cersei and jamie feel about each other you know that's just not the obvious conclusion in order to get to that eventual conclusion first ned has to make his way down the Street of Steel, where he starts to feel self-conscious about all of the informers and spies

that he knows are traversing King's Landing. Just kind of as an aside, I kind of really like this name, Street of Steel. I love the noises and the busy and everything that shows up yeah there's so much there's a lot to really flesh this place out and it's another moment where you get to see george r martin really showcasing that world building skill that he has just just as a snippet from the chapter it begins on the west of Fishmonger Square

inside the Rivergate and then it climbs all the way up to Visenya's Hill. This is a big street, all right? Which kind of also gives you a sense of how many people there are within this trade. Like it's a huge city and a lot of people, a lot of different smiths

who are in business because there are so many people that they're able to meet those needs and the higher up one goes the more expensive the shops are which is such a great detail and all the way at the top is the shop of tobo mott wow that was a lot of rhyming that i didn't think was gonna happen. As Ned goes through this, he starts, you know, down at the bottom. He rides through all of this. It is, if I may say, lit at this point because the tourney is starting. Ah, shit. Beric Dondarrion's party appears. I really love the description we get of Beric. Dashing figure on a courser, red gold hair and a black satin cloak dusted with stars, which

of course is showing the Lightning Lord's allegiance to the house he's betrothed to, House Dayne. These chapters serve kind of as an introduction for the Brotherhood Without Banners crew before they even become a thing. Thoros and Omgai both make appearances during the tourney in the next chapter,

and this introduction of Beric isn't to be missed either. Back when he was whole, back when he was handsome, and back when he was young. I really can't wait for Sansa 2 when we do Sansa just for this reason. The contrast of these young knights then, and then eventually we'll be able to see them in other chapters now. It's so sad seeing the way their stories go. Then we actually get to Tobomot's place and Tobomot is also Flexin and he's

got all of his bling on and he's like look at me. I'm a rich ass armorer because I'm good. Very good at this. He's so good that apparently the Tyrells, the very rich family, Loras, buys all of his armor from Tobo

and we learn that Tobo can work with Valyrian steel. Which is totally a super small line. I'm sure is going to come into play in the Woods of Winter or Dream of Spring for Gendry. That is a perfect setup for that. Yeah. Absolutely. And then Tobomod talks

a little bit about some of the armor that he made for Renly. This does go back to kind of what we discussed last episode about Renly's brooch being emerald and gold. Here we learn Renly's armor is green with golden antlers, which Renly has brought up the Torellas twice already, showing the close ties between him and the Reach's most powerful house. On Twitter, Shakespeare of Thrones actually had commented on this, and if you haven't checked her out, check her out. She just put a great essay

about Stannis and the Scottish play. I'm not saying it. It's Macbeth. You can't make me say it, Eliana. I will say it. I will take this burden for you. I will take the bad luck for you. Thanks, buddy. If you die, well, I'll probably die too.

She just put out a great essay, though, about Stannis and the M-word. And she said of Renly and the color green that our discussion last week of Renly and the green meaning something, even if his eyes do change, George. He also has custom green armor. Could this be a hint of his link to Highgarden, but also symbolic of his youth and immaturity, ambition, and greed? And I say absolutely. I think the ambition and greed with the gold and the green definitely surround House Trell and Renly's ambitions concerning House Trell.

So I think that was a really great nod. Again, regarding that youth and immaturity, there are some idioms in the real world where you say someone's like a little green, and that means that they are naive. They're very young, inexperienced. So I think that all of these things are kind of at work when we're talking about Renly's characterization and yeah, how he's tied to that color green, which is a strong choice, especially since that's not within the house Baratheon colors, which means that this is something that we should be associating specifically with him. Especially because the green is consuming the gold.

Gold is obviously, as we know, part of Baratheon colors. However, he's wearing more green than gold now. Every single time we see him or hear about this armor, it's becoming more green than it was before. It used to be just the Emerald Brooch. Now, you know, suddenly this. It's slowly, bit by bit, the Torals are overgrowing. Later on, when many people begin calling themselves kings, such as Joffrey and Stannis, you can see in some ways Renly become green with envy and try and claim some kingship himself. So I

just love this point from Shakespeare of Thrones. Yes, great symbolism. Look at me, I'm a king. Yeah, go follow her on Twitter. Do it. Read that essay about the thing I can't say. It's so good. As a big lover of

Shakespeare myself also. I was really excited when that essay came out. It was really good. We might not talk as much about Stannis yet. You are jonesing for that. Go read that essay. Ned thinks about how ornamentation on armor, going back to the armor that Jon Arryn bought earlier, wasn't really Jon's style. He was a more practical man. He believed that steel was steel and that armor was meant to be worn for protection. Ned asks Tobo what Gendry and Jon talked about, to which he comments his age, if he was happy, and his mother, who was a blonde alehouse wench and dead. Ned closely examines Gendry, noting he looks remarkably like Robert and Chris from Skins. Yeah, later on Cassie comes into the story.

Stop. Something about the way that Tobomont describes Gendry I think is really interesting. A little earlier he says, The boy is crude as new steel and like new steel would profit from some beating. And we see this sort of language come up to describe Baratheons from another character. For Gendry to be described as new steel is similar to that language we hear from Donald Noy where he says Renly is copper, Stannis is iron, but Robert was true steel. So you can see how that gets inherited somewhat. And then of course there's this line which has

been pointed out by people a few times but I still love it and we're going to talk about it. Toa Mat says, you saw the boy, such a strong boy. Those hands of his, those hands are made for hammers. It's of course a slight hint before we get the reveal. If Gendry's hands are made for hammers, it's very much also like his father, Robert, who was famous for wielding his war hammer. Ned tries to buy Gendry's helm. Like Jon Arryn had armor made for himself, Ned tried to give patronage also as to not seem out of place and cute in this encounter because ned along with trying to cover his tracks is just trying to be like a nice supportive person ned's just being a dad and then it ends up being super awkward because kendry's like uh no i made this for me

like a total teenager too like what a 15 year old no it's mine yeah it's very funny later on when ned asks about who paid for gendry's apprenticeship tobomot claims that he took gendry on for free but ned wrangles the truth out of him. A stranger apparently has paid twice the usual fee for Tobelmont to not only take him on, but to keep silence. He was stout, round of shoulder, not so tall as you. Brown beard, but there was a bit of red in it, I'll swear. He wore a rich cloak that I do remember. Heavy purple velvet, worked with silver threads.

But the hood shadowed his face and I never did see him clear. He hesitated a moment. My lord, I want no trouble. A couple things to kind of look into on that. I had like a very existential debate about this with Emmett from Not A Cast, poor Quentin. We were just kind of chit-chatting about some things from this moment. They haven't gotten to this chapter yet.

And this is definitely most likely Varys saving an innocent, very Melisandre and Devon style, but I just don't like it that it is Varys, especially given that we know his future with the realm and what he wants. Yeah, I agree with that. I also kind of wonder if there's something going on here where Varys might be squirreling away some of these true Baratheon, not true born, but kids who are actually Robert's kids, to contrast with how the Lannister heirs look, to prove that they were illegitimate.

When the time was right, kind of keeping it as a card in his deck for Aegon, I would suppose. Also makes it interesting to me to wonder about Edric Storm. Kind of, because a lot of people theorize that they are going to use Edric Storm's claim on Storm's End to kind of whatever when Aegon comes around, yada yada. I don't really love that theory. But it's interesting to think about in the future, like, what are they doing with all these Baratheons? Yeah. Ned nodded. He decided that he liked Tobo Master Armor.

If the day ever comes when Gendry would rather wield a sword than forge one, send him to me. He has the look of a warrior. Until then, you have my thanks, Master Mott, and my promise. Should I ever want a helm to frighten children, this will be the first place I visit. And of course, coincidentally enough, Gendry ends up wielding a sword and traveling with Ned Stark's daughter in this story to come. It's a great storyline, which is supposedly going to pay off more in the future. Well, most of them do. Supposedly. Supposedly. How many books does Grand Maester Malian's tome again?

Just seven? Six? Eight? Five? Eight books? I don't know. And while we can't figure that out, Ned also still can't figure out what Jon Arryn wanted with the King's Bastard

nor why it led to his death. Which, of course, there's a great sense of irony in that. What would anyone want with a King's Bastard? What would anyone want with a king's bastard? What would anyone want with a king's bastard? We're talking about Jon Snow. Get it?

Snow, Ned! Snow! Yeah. If Ned's saying that, and with that double entendre of it meaning john snow he's yeah he is like why would anyone want that because he's like i didn't fucking ask for this and of course from that as the chapter closes and all the pieces start coming together and we realize that what he found at the armorer was one of Robert's bastards and knowing how much Robert loves brothels,

you can surmise that from this visit what Jon, Arryn, and Stannis were seeking from the brothel, and no, it wasn't a quick nut. Alright, so that's Ned 6. Info dump episode.

It's a lot of setup. A lot of setup. Lightning round of what we missed in these other chapters. So in Catlin 5, on the road back to Winterfell, Catlin and Ser Rodrik stop at an inn in the Crossroads

only to have an unfortunate meeting with Tyrion Lannister that ends in his capture. But also badass. That's actually a quiet chapter too. It seems like a lot isn't happening. Boom! Everything. Those last pages.

Yeah, everything blows up. After Catelyn V we have Sansa II. One of my personal favorites from the book. Finally, the tourney of the hand has arrived. Sansa watches several tilts, including the unfortunate death of Hugh of the Vale, which may or may not be some foreshadowing for her future.

On the way back to the castle, she hears Sandor Clegane's story and reassures him that his brother, Gregor Clegane, is no true knight. Which, of course, brings us to Ned VII where serhue of the veil's death came at gregor's hand in the second joust bringing eddard stark's suspicions once more to the forefront of his mind after struggling to convince robert against participating in the melee with some help from barrist and selmy ned watches the tourney as

promised with his daughter sanza after watching the hound save sir loris's life ned retreats to his solar where varies informs him robert was meant to die in the melee net seven opens with baristan being the sole person to stand vigil for sir Hugh of the Vale in King's Landing, as he had no one but a mother far away in the Vale. But the circumstances surrounding Ser Hugh's death do seem very suspicious. Ned wonders if his investigation was the boy's downfall. my question is knowing what we do now about how it was actually Liza and Peter Baelish who plotted and carried out the poisoning of John Aaron do we actually think that Hugh was killed to hide that secret of poison or was it just like hashtag just Gregor things, especially from how we see him act later in this chapter? It's hard to discern between the two.

I kind of fluctuate between yes and no all the time. I'm like half and half on it because Ned wonders if he was killed by Lannister Bannerman to prevent Ned from interviewing him. And it's referenced later by Varys that Hugh's rise to power was only after John's death and at the Lannister's hands and that he's one of the very few that stayed behind after his death for the Lannisters but it wouldn't make sense like you said so it could just be just Gregor things but it also could be I don't know I think it could just be just Gregor things what do you think it just seems to me like i don't know i i can't decide yeah like you i can't decide like maybe it was a conspiracy but like it would be kind of funny like in that it's one of those super unfortunate coincidences for a obviously circuit of the veil but b for ned that

it just feeds into that confirmation bias and continues to build those suspicions about the lannisters when it's just like gregor being gregor yeah it might be ned's paranoia just building another thing i do think is important about it is that it could just be gregor being gregor and it could be sir hugh is an upjumped squire stable boy, which also has nods to another certain from the Vale upjumped squire that we see in the story. And I do think, not to give some spoilery ideas, but some speculation for the winds of winter, I am a very strong believer that Harold Harding is going to die in the turkey.

What? You don't think he's going to end up with Sansa? Harry the Red and Blue Herring. Hair dying is literally spelled in his name. Har. Rigor mortis. Yeah. I like that idea.

I think that's an interesting idea. I haven't thought about that, but yeah. I like that idea. I think that's an interesting idea. I haven't thought about that, but yeah. I like that. Ser Hugh dies bloody in a tourney, well... Yeah. Regarding the tourney, Ned Stark is not so pleased, and he says, especially in reaction to the death of Ser Hugh, war should not be a game which i think is another big facet as to why

he dislikes these tourneys so much on top of the cost and that he thinks it's frivolous because he of course was in some wars and to him the cost of them it wasn't a game sir hugh had some very fancy armor uh very very fancy that was forged especially for the tourney and barriston doesn't even know if hugh had finished paying for it which ned of course replies oh he paid for it buddy um ned orders the silent sisters to send the armor to his mother and that ned will finish paying off the armor if it is not already paid for and this is of course the armor was forged more than likely by tobo mott we can all guess because it was very intricately laid out baristan informs ned that robert is really excited and still intends to fight in the melee which ned already knows and it kept him up

all night because he was like oh my god i can't believe this is happening berestin though suggests that robert may forget as drunken words are often forgotten in the morning a phenomenon i am incredibly familiar with and unfortunately ned insists that robert's gonna remember fast forward to the pavilion robert is raging at his squires tyrek and lancel lannister more like tyrek lannister am right? He is also already drunk, even though it's morning. Don't judge, by the way. I feel like that's very judgmental. He complains that his squires cannot put his arm around properly. And he like throws a hissy fit about it.

Like, he's like, wow, you guys can't even do this right. And Ned like just is flat out like, Robert, it's not their fault. You got fat buddy which is actually very reminiscent of cersei later on in a feast for crows bitching at her washerwoman for shrinking her clothes although we know she was just getting fat from drinking wine or if you're a cersei's pregnant believer then it's from her getting prego i guess but i'm a wine believer because that shit's got sugar you'll get fat if you drink a lot of wine. I think there's also something interesting there

in that how they each reacted. Because Cersei's like, these washerwomen are shrinking my clothes. But when Ned tells Robert, Robert, you got fat. He just laughs and absolutely... He's like, yeah, I did. I did. I did.

It shows a lot of the contrast between the two characters and shows, like, Cersei is a much crueler Robert Baratheon. Cersei is Robert as a ruler, only if you took only cruel parts and made them... Robert then sends the squires to go get him a breastplate stretcher from Aaron Santagar, which elicits even more laughter, including with Barristan. And Ned smiles because they all know that this is not a real thing. But Ned's also concerned and notes that there are too many Lannisters surrounding Robert after asking if the Squires are House Lannister.

Which, of course, Ned takes a note on their looks. Blonde curls, emerald eyes. Again, we're getting told blonde curls, emerald eyes. Ned asks about the words that were exchanged between Cersei and Robert the night before because it is common gossip now known everywhere that they got in a huge fight. Robert complains about Cersei's audacity in questioning the king, saying that Lyanna would never have done such a thing, and Ned insists that Robert did not know Lyanna. You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert, Ned told him. You saw her beauty,

but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee. This is an important moment to talk about Liana and what she wanted, and also leads in, especially before our next episode, where we will get a little more exposition of what could possibly have happened with Liana. I mean, as a viewer, as a reader, we all don't know right now, we have to say. Although, we know. We all know. We all know what happened. At least most of it.

We know that Rhaegar and Liana ported and made Jon Snow, and that she did not love Robert Baratheon, and she did love Rhaegar. I mean, you don't die in a tower with roses from your rapist, generally. At least not in a fiction fantasy story. That's not normal. Yeah, it sounds like it could have been a little consensual. Liana, as we know later on from Bran's chapters with the Night of the Laughing Tree story, definitely had iron underneath.

And as we know from the Wolfblood Aria chapter, she would have had a sword had their father allowed it. And she even told Ned once, as we come to hear, that, you know, Robert had fathered kids already and she wasn't about that. And that, you know, he would never stay to one bed. I believe that comes up actually in our next episode. next episode and he remembers that later on that Liana is just a ghost of a memory to Robert that he puts again as we've said on a literal pedestal and enforces what he misses and what he wanted into a person and we talk about that a little I guess in our first episode but we're definitely gonna dive into that more and another character that we're also gonna eventually talk about a

little more is sir baristan we'll be getting to him eventually in this chapter we're reminded that he does in fact sit also on the small council he advises robert we see him advising the king and tells him it would not be kingly to participate in the melee which hurts robert's pride barriston and ned tell him that he would only win because he was a king and no one's going to actually try and touch you no one would feel comfortable going after the king and that any victory would be in some ways unmerited i think this is a really complex scene and moment, especially as it plays out right after, because Barristan is highlighting these issues of power and it comes to the forefront when Robert suddenly decides to use that power. Robert's pride is hurt when he sees how

kingship and that power keeps him from the things that he actually wants. How power, political power, has sucked the joy out of fighting that was so big for him. So in retaliation, he uses that power over those who are close to him. He orders Bairstyn to leave the room. Then he orders Ned to to stay he then commands Ned to drink he says that your king says drink and then he tells them what they're going to converse about there's a lot I think going on there about what this has done for Robert and how he feels in some ways trapped by that power especially because Robert as we're about to dive into kind of is just a puppet ruler i mean there are other people pulling the strings behind him

so robert takes and controls what he can control which is that his subjects around him like you said ordering and commanding them to do things that is all he can control really yeah robert admits he never wanted to marry after winning the iron throne and that it should have fallen to ned or john although ned reminds him that robert had the best claim because he had an actual claim where they do not and it's interesting because this is once more showing that robert realizes he is not the rightful ruler on the throne he's not just enough for this throne he's not doing the realm any good. He is not ruling the realm properly. And he admits that basically by saying that he's not blind. Robert is under there as Ned noticed in the last chapter,

too, that there is Robert under there. And we're about to see the iron underneath melts away a little bit with Robert. This part grates on me a little just because Robertbert's all like i didn't really want this it should have been you or john but we hear those same lines from ned in a cat chapter where he goes this wasn't meant for me all of this was meant for brandon winterfell you everything and it's like ned didn't fucking want this either but here he is being a lord doing his job and ruling the north and being just and doing the things that are expected of him because he's like being a fucking adult you know he's not like i want to run away and he's not like i let's just leave you know

that's what robert wants and maybe sure that means that robert accepts and understands that he's not like, let's just leave. That's what Robert wants. And maybe, sure, that means that Robert accepts and understands that he's just not living up to what he should be. But I think that, how much did he even try considering? I think he's swimming in a lot of regret because he did. Yeah, for him to be like, it should have been you or John. It's like, well, neither of them. Maybe John did, but Ned didn't expect or want this either.

Jon Arryn, we learn, arranged the Cersei marriage, the marriage to the Lannisters, and Robert says he was a fool for doing so. Cersei, of course, as we know, is beautiful but cold, and Robert agreed mostly for wealth and for Tywin's power if the Targaryens ever rose back up against him. Robert then shows some humility and starts becoming the man that Ned has hoped that he is and apologizes for the direwolf lady's death and admits that he is pretty sure that Joffrey lied. And coming back to what we were talking about earlier, he dreams of giving up his crown to be a sellsword in the Free Cities, but

what's stopping him, and maybe this is kind of responsible, I don't know, is the thought of Joffrey being on the throne with Cersei controlling him, and that's what keeps him from giving up. It's all he can control. These are the only variables that Robert can control. I mean, the mistakes have been made. You know, there's nothing else for him to do.

But it is too little too late. Unfortunately, I don't think Ned takes it that way through this conversation. Ned leaves this all of this kind of feeling hopeful. But it's also like Robert, you're old and fat now like you're not you're not 20. You can't go off to the free cities and brandish your sword or your hammer. Also, things that came to mind, that song by JoJo. No, it's just too little too late. Classic. Not as good as Leave, Get Out, though. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, no, that one's absolutely the best. I can play that on guitar. Oh my gosh. I'll play it for you sometime. Yeah, that's our exclusive content. I don't know if this is actually anything, but Robert talking about wanting to be a sellsword king across the narrow sea

kind of reminds me of Fagon a little, or Aegon that we see later on in Dance, who, while he himself isn't necessarily a sellsword gets the support of the sellsword company the golden company and of course is a king

who raised across the narrow sea so just kind of wondering if that's something a nod there maybe just a little nod if it was incidental or not we don't know yeah I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know that this Golden Company or the Blackfriars were necessarily conceived yet at that point, but it's fun to think of. Absolutely. It's fun to find these little nods throughout the story. Robert asks Ned, how could I have made a son like Joffrey? Which we all kind of...

You didn't. You didn't do it, son. He's not your son, son. Ned Holloway responds that Joffrey is just a boy, and Jon Arryn often found Robert to be a lot to handle as a child, too, which Robert does agree. He's like, okay, well, I turned out to be all right, you know, a good king, and ned straight up does not respond ned just is real quiet and robert is like you you could at least say i'm like better than the mad king dude come on come on and robert kind of finds this funny that ned isn't willing to appease Robert. And Robert says, you never could lie for love nor honor. And I'm just like, what is honor compared to a horse?

Yeah. But it's funny because this reputation of Ned's, that idea that you never could lie for love nor honor, is so crucial to why the ruse that he pulls of hiding Jon for so many years is so effective. He only could lie for love. And he only could lie, do a lie that completely dishonored him for love ned admits that there's truth in that and that then robert insists that they have many years yet to set things right and make him a good ruler i believe he says that the singers will sing songs of their reign together

which is very sad because we all know that's not a thing that happens. They could still sing songs later on. But Robert changes the subject and asks who Ned thinks is going to win the joust. He talks, again, going back to the looming presence of the Tyrells who are growing in the story. He tells Ned that the Night of Flowers is a son that anyone could be proud of and about the story of loris unhorsing jamie in the last tourney which is something that comes up a few times in this in this chapter uh constantly reminding you about the dagger and how it supposedly changed hands because of jamie being unorsed. Then he mentions Renly again, bringing up Loras's really cute, lovely 14-year-old sister Margaery.

And this is follow-up from last chapter. George introduced the idea last chapter, and now its payoff begins to play. When Robert is interested in the girl in the locket, it shows that he did not know or love Lyanna, something repeated in the last chapter with the melee so it's just a consistent theme especially considering as I described earlier that Liana and Marjorie would not have looked the same whatsoever the idea of sending

over locket or paintings in general to other nobles to get them interested in marriage is also just kind of funny because it is actually typical of what happened in real history. People would send other nobles portraits to pique interest. When Philip II of Spain, for example, sought a marriage with Mary I of England, they sent over a portrait to her to show him that to show to show Mary that Philip was indeed very studly. While they break their fast, they talk about when they were boys in the veil. Robert is eating an orange and reminiscing of a story when they were younger and Robert had started a rotting fruit fight in the halls, which brings a lot more fruit symbolism to the story once more. Fruit symbolism of rotting oranges especially rears its head

once we join up in Dorne in A Feast for Crows, where the overripe blood oranges begin to drop and plop on the ground, showing Dorne has waited too long to execute his plans, much like Robert. Yeah, that Robert is now thinking that he wants to be a good king. Just, again, too little, too late. Ned smiles, realizing that he is now finally speaking to the man he once knew. And feels that if he can just prove his accusations, Robert will listen.

Listen to Ned. This hope causes Ned to feel that his smiles are coming more easily. And even the food begins to taste better as Ned thinks about the downfall of the Lannisters. Ned arrives at the tourney finally, sitting next to his daughter Sansa, which he had promised her that he would come to this day of the tourney with her because he had not joined her the previous days. And she was very focused on coming to the tourney this was Sansa you know as a lady of the court wanting to go to the courtly things

that she was expected to be at and Ned even says you know he does not really want her there I believe that might be in her chapters even I don't think it was in this chapter but he kind of said this is a gruesome thing for a young lady to sit through i don't know how i feel about you going to this little finger bets against the hound in the first joust saying some clever crap because you know that's little fingers character a dog will not bite the hand that feeds it which is also very interesting because maybe a wolf would bite the hand that feeds it as eliana and I discussed actually before this, especially regarding Littlefinger. And it also makes me think of possible throne room exposition coming from Sandor, possibly to Sansa in the future about Littlefinger betraying her dad,

which we will get to obviously in the next few chapters. So something to think about for the future that the only person in that throne room that probably could tell Sansa about that betrayal is Sandor. I'm just going to throw something out there that I was thinking about when you're talking about Sansa watching this gruesome affair at the tourney. It makes her feel more Sturck-like, especially in conjunction with that very first Bran chapter of how you must not look away, especially if you're witnessing that beheading. And she doesn't. Jane Poole is put to tears when Hugh of the Vale is killed, but Sansa does not.

She maintains watching, and she does not get upset, and she keeps her composure. Yeah, and she does feel tears, of course, much later on at the end of Ned's story, but she is the one who witnesses it little finger loses a bet uh loses that bet when the hound bests jamie so that's bringing up again who's betting on who especially who's betting on jamie when it's in the context of the knife that was used in this attempt on Bran's life uh also does Jamie Jamie just doesn't seem like he's very he it seems like he loses these jousts a lot doesn't it which later on he gives us the kind of exposition in one of his

chapters that you know you have to have good horsemanship to be good in the jousts uh that's like very important he actually tells us this I want to be good in the jousts. That's like very important. He actually tells us this, I want to say, in one of his chapters or Brienne's chapters. So it's interesting to hear this because he's just not really good at the tourney. I feel like at the jousts, at the tilts. Yeah, which is fair. We see a couple of times some people say that. Oh, yes, my sibling's the better lance and I'm the better sword and jamie's just more of a sword

than the lance person when this uh match goes down the way it does santa tells ned that she knew the hound would win and yeah little finger asks her if she also knows who will win the second match. Get a job, little finger. Which then Renly provides another very useful clue. He says that he wishes Tyrion were there and that he would have won more because Tyrion always bets on Jaime, which means that he wouldn't have lost or he wouldn't have won that knife from Jamie losing because yeah Tyrion always bets on his brother and Ned unfortunately misses this clue and Renly

says it even like right there and like Littlefinger's right there and Littlefinger's probably just like laughing inside himself he probably is for a second like, oh god, did he notice? And he's like, ah, what an idiot he didn't notice. Yeah. Jamie is let off the field with a mangled helm and Sir Gregor takes his position and Ned remarks

that he is the biggest man he has ever seen, including Hodor, including Robert. Ned recalls Gregor's awful reputation, which of course we will go over briefly because it's horrible. He dashed the skull of Aegon Targaryen against the wall, and he commonly was known to boast the rape and murder of Elia Martell during the sack of King's Landing. Rumors of weird circumstances surround the deaths of his two wives his sister his father and his brother's face obviously his sister would have died between 272 and 282 ac and sandor would

have been burnt somewhere around 278 to 279 ac and gregor would have been knighted in 281 and his dad died in 282 in a hunting accident, quote unquote, which is not the first hunting accident we see to kill off someone who is the lord or the ruler of a keep. We obviously will see this later on in this book. Sandor would have left to join House Lannister immediately after his dad died in 282 to avoid being murdered and by his brother to be one of the family members murdered, which is most of them. And that's kind of where we came. Sandor was at the sack of King's Landing outside while Gregor was on the inside.

As for Gregor Clegane's opponent, Loras Tyrell, He is slim and armored in his fancy, shiny, pretty intricate, beautiful, awesome, amazing armor. Made by Tobel Mott, of course. And a cape of woven flowers, which is... That doesn't sound very sensible to me. It doesn't, but also

it does sound pretty fly. Yeah, you gotta admit he had some style yeah like a cape of woven flowers alright alright and Sansa compares the two contestants then asks her father

to ensure that Loras does not get hurt she is wearing her rose that Loras gave her uh and begging her father to make sure that he does not get hurt to protect him. So Sansa is wearing a rose and begging her father to protect him. Just to,

just to put that out there. Yeah. You know, roses, roses, begging people not to hurt other people. You know, uh,

sounds like no one I've ever heard of before. Promise me, Ned. Promise me. Blue petals. Okay. Ned assures her, though, that these lances are designed to break so that no one is injured. While, of course, thinking of Sir Hugh. And it's also another line to remind kind of us that dad can't always protect you.

Look at lady. I mean, Ned isn't always going to be around to protect you. That's kind of us that dad can't always protect you look at lady i mean ned isn't always going to be around to protect you that's kind of the thought process here as he tells her oh he'll be fine and then of course he thinks immediately of how sir he died as we get this introduction to gregor and his very clear characterization of being a very large man he becomes the goliath of this story he becomes this horrible giant that must be slain but our expectations of what goes down are overturned every way every david that we see goliath go up against loses and it's likely that the story the story is going to play out like this quite a few more times until you know we get just the right david um and george will also be putting

likely his own twists on this classic tale we move on to gregor unable to control his horse while loris shows great horsemanship when the joust begins flogging's mount gallops hard and unsteady where loris's mare stays smooth loris strikes perfectly with an unbroken lance and gregor is in a rage he roars for his sword to be brought to him and he beheads his horse with a single cut nearly and advances towards the knight of flowers sending him to the ground with one blow he is about about to kill him when, of course, the Hound jumps in, remaining defensive to Gregor's blows. The King's voice comes over the crowd, again establishing he's commanding. The Hound drops to his knee, and Gregor finally comes to his senses

and storms off, not dropping to the knee at all. Earlier in this episode, we established how Robert's power becomes something that comes to the forefront and here you get to actually watch him use that power. This is the first time we see Robert not skirting his duties or power to the man who's missed every small council meeting finally found his booming voice in this chapter in general. Sir Loras forfeits the championship to Sandor and there is no final joust.

The hound wins, just as Sansa predicted. 40,000 dragons go to the winner. The first time Sandor has ever won anything in his life beside his burned face. the first time sandor has ever won anything in his life beside his burnt face he wins the love of the commons because the good people love a good underdog story i do mean it in earnest especially as i was talking earlier about like that david and goliath stuff that's that's the classic underdog story and you could definitely see that the hound's gonna it's gonna go down something's gonna happen It reminds me a lot of the Hedge Knight of

Are There No True Knights Among You? It reminds me of Dunk helping Tanzel when he saw injustice done. The Hound saw Gregor bullying yet another boy, just like he had been bullied. Gregor going after another boy to

kill him, just as I'm gregor could have killed him if he had held him longer there by the time sandor meets his brother again in this story he will not be his brother anymore he will be the shell of a monster and a mad dog so i don't think a lot of people give the clugain bull argument clugain bull is tired i think mercy killing his brother is wired which we'll get into later on in Sansa and Arya's chapters, as those are the ones that we really truly get to characterize Sandor the most. But mercy is a very prominent theme in Sandor's story. And I do think that there is a mercy kill coming from his story. In other news, just because i like ruining people's lives get out the way

loris tyrell thanks sandor i was like but what if but what if we made a loris and sandor ship i know that sansan is uh is the popular thing but what if we made a Loras and Sandor ship? Would that be Lorasan? Sandlor? Sandlor! Sandlor! Sandlor! I did it. You can't deny it has a ring to it. Next they head over to the archery field because there are a lot of activities that happen

at Eterni, and Littlefinger remarks that Sir Loras had to know that his mare was in heat and that it would disrupt Gregor's stallion. We also end up meeting a few interesting people, such as a boy named Anguy, who wins an archery event, and Ned actually offers him a position in his guard but he refuses he's too good for that then we also meet Thoros of Myr who wins a melee with his flaming sword which lasts three hours and started with 40 people it's a very long event and again this is introducing the future leaders

and prominent members of the brotherhood Without Banners and contrasting them from their more bright beginnings, I guess I would say. A dashing, handsome knight, a young archer, a fat, drunk, sought priest of R'hllor. Interesting enough that Anguy refuses to join Ned's Guard when eventually he does join Ned's Guard. It's the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is kind of what's left of people that defected. When the list of injuries is reported, Ned is more than happy that Robert didn't participate because a lot of people got injured. At the feast that night, Ned felt extremely hopeful.

Robert was in a great mood. The Lannisters weren't even around, not at the feast, none of it. And his daughters were even behaving and being sweet and just being sisterly to each other aria and sans are discussing her dancing lessons sansa is kind of noting about her gross bruise that she shows her on her leg saying oh you must not be very good at dancing then aria ned examines aria's bruise later on while she's practicing her one leg standing and he worries iferea was being too hard on her. He recalls her walking blindfolded through the keep because Cerea was teaching her to see with everything but her eyes.

Of course, it's something that happens to Arya, but actually literally when they blind her at the House of Black and White. And I'm just like, I don't know, is this a normal thing in bravos curriculum is this just a thing that people do in bravos i guess learn to it strengthens the other senses but it's yeah it's very weird it's kind of interesting that he teaches her that and And of course, people have taken that and made crazy theories that, you know, he's a faceless man or whatever. Nutty stuff, which I don't agree with that. But I do wonder if we're going to get any payoff to Syrio Forel's plot or if that was just a nod to like begin her on her journey. She's been practicing spins and backflips and ned offers to have her lessons moved to another instructor because this is kind of a bit queer as far as master at arms goes he you know knows any decent

master at arms could give her sufficient enough training but he also knows that arguing with her is pointless and she insists that she wants sirio pharrell to train her it seems like she's getting a very robust uh training it it some way in some ways feels like those montages from like I don't know the karate kid where you're doing like all of these other things that aren't that you think aren't related to actually fighting but turns out they are Ned then returns to his solar thinking of all of these different new things that he has learned and he takes out the drag the not dragger he takes out the dagger and he wonders why anyone would ever want brand dead and he's very sure that brand's fall has something to do with john aaron's death

but he just can't figure out how the two come together the hint is that they're not related well kind of kind of they are they are in the sense that it's about like the incest yeah the fall is related but the knife is not the knife is just like joffrey being right hashtag just joffrey things jory is searching the brothels, and that is more than certain. Gendry is Robert's son. He also thinks back on Edric Storm, another bastard Robert had to recognize because the mother was highborn. And then he also remembers Robert's first child in the Vale. No bastard can threaten his true-born children,

though, Ned thinks, which we all know at this point to be the opposite. His bastards are more true-born than his true-borns are. Varys comes to Ned's door in disguise, unrecognizable in rough-spun model, his face disguised, which this is kind of the second kick

from the one-two punch with somebody coming to the armorer and paying the apprentice fee for gendry so if it was various who paid gendry's apprentice fee disregarding the beard and somehow they have like spirit gum back in the day to keep that crap out i don't know it's all just really like i got it mummers whatever but this second echo notches all that in i do kind of feel like it cheapens the taste of it but we kind of get a reveal that various is a master of disguise in that moment very soon comes in with some juicy tidbits such as revealing that the land ministers had actually hoped to kill Robert during the melee.

And Ned then asks, why then would Cersei forbid him from participating? Because that is the best way to make Robert do whatever she wants to forbid him from it. And he points out that she forbade him in front of many people, and it all comes back to Robert's pride. His pride is what made him want to enter so badly that it's his wounded pride that convinces him to sit it out various reveals cersei is actually afraid of ned surprisingly which all of us are sitting here like ned you big softy but she's afraid of him ro Robert would never harm Ned, not even if she asked him to, where Robert would kill Varys at the slightest of requests.

He hates spies, units, units? Eunuchs and sneaks. When Varys talks about that, he says that Robert, a most puissant warrior is our Robert, and such a manly man has little love for sneaks and spies and eunuchs. If a day should come when Cersei whispers, kill that man,

Illyn Payne will snick my head off in a twinkling, and who will mourn poor Varies then? They bring up Illyn. They talk about Cersei whispering things to Illyn Pay pain quite a few times in this end chapter and while it isn't it kind of puts the idea of ill and pain doing uh lannister bidding for a bit but you know first of all as soon as varies comes it gives ned choices when it comes to the people that he trusts or works together with. First, Ned in King's Landing was approached by Littlefinger, and he's put a lot of trust in Littlefinger. But now Varys is also making his own moves on the Hand. In this conversation, Varys also discusses some of these complexities in king's landing politics of where the loyalties of each of the small council's members lie ned says that robert

must have someone that he can trust in king's landing he says like the king's guard which varies calls a paper shield a term that's going to come up again later uh in ned's storyline and i think that this chapter shows a lot about ned's understanding of how power works and the way that he thinks politics works in this aspect i think that ned is actually very much like sansa he's putting a lot of faith in powerful people in the way that the current like formal structure is set up like how he has all this hope that i just have to give robert this proof uh the way that or the way that sansa later believes that she can trust uh circe ned and sansa both put a lot of faith in the idea of people in power being righteous. But they also put too much faith in the power of this position

and their authority. This contrasts with the way that Littlefinger and Varys work when we see them both coming up in this exact chapter while ned sort of relies on that status quo and the formal societal power structure as a means for justice and to make things right he just keeps thinking that if he can get the proof that he needs and show it to robert about the lannisters being guilty then he can use robert's authority as king, Robert's power that we've seen a couple times in this chapter, to bring those evildoers to justice. But the problem is that he keeps trying to play this game by old rules, by using just the rules and the power that he can see, whereas Littlefinger and Varys make their own power. They're using knowledge, they're withholding it,

and they're making plays, and they're changing up what knowledge means. And in that way, they're creating their own rules for this game, as is pretty much everyone else in King's Landing. You have to make your own power and make your own rules in order to win the game of thrones you can't rely on a system that denotes it we see various creating this knowledge with his little birds by chopping their tongues out and getting them to hide in walls and taking information from them and that is his own web of knowledge that he spins we have littleinger rising from nothing and creating money out of thin air for things. And the whole idea, a notion of honor, an honor guard or a king's guard or that paper shield was really killed when Jaime Lannister killed Aerys II. I mean, that was it's all up in the air then.

There's no rules that Jaime Lannister killed the king whether or not it was good or bad not judging the act whether or not it was honorable but Jamie forsake his vow and he is still in a member of the Kingsguard so that means that you know there's no rules anymore that's it absolutely finally ned summons the nerve to ask the burning question of aries how did john aaron die who poisoned him and we learned that it's a poison called the tears of lease which of course as we've said in past episodes tears Tears of Lys totally hint towards Lysa Arryn between the name and of course later Alyssa's tears, uh, a Lysa's tears. I begged Lord Arryn to use a taster. In this very room, I begged him, but he would not hear of it.

Only one who was less than a man would even think of such a thing, he told me. Which again is hinting at it not being a man that poisoned him so let's just throw this out there with various saying that i begged lord aaron to use a taster and the idea that i don't know doesn't this seem counterintuitive to that idea earlier where the john aaron suspected suspected that he could be poisoned that you were talking about earlier with him pushing his food you know I would say it could however I feel like they were speaking of his last days and as we know of Ned's last few days before he is locked up and then brought to have his head chopped off he grew increasingly paranoid

he as he unraveled each plot thread and uh figured it all out i mean he was looking left and right over his back and i think that towards the end john aaron probably was the last few days you know picking at his food going maybe i shouldn't eat this especially after the idea of someone trying to poison him was put in his head by Varys fair that could definitely be it and he maybe regrets that

he's like damn maybe I do need to start investing in a taste tester but of course too little too late the other news is we're never going to find out so lol because he's dead finally varies ends this chapter with a super ominous warning of that's like oh why did he die and then varies is like asking questions and bum bum bum so dramatic you can just see the the credits rolling for before the next episode the next chapter speaking of the next chapters i am really

excited for our next episode eliana oh my gosh i've been waiting for it uh it's lit in our next episode can you tell me what happens in eddard eight first in eddard eight after ned being like super jazzed about robert and stuff ned and robert oh wait no i'm not using the word just okay after ned and robert after ned feeling like super hopeful about robert then ned and robert clash over the presented plot to kill Daenerys Targaryen. When the council sides with Robert, Ned throws his badge upon the table and resigns in protest. As he makes plans to return to Winterfell with his daughters, Littlefinger interrupts, bringing Ned the identity of the brothel Jon Arryn and Stannis Baratheon visited. And of course, one of my favorite chapters in the whole book, I would rank it probably

Eddard 9 and Eddard 15 are my two favorite Ned chapters in ever, obviously. So I guess I was going to say in this book, but that wouldn't work. Eddard 9, Ned is led to the brothel John Aaron visited by none other than Judas. So I guess I was going to say in this book, but that wouldn't work. Etter 9. Ned is led to the brothel John Arryn visited by none other than Judas Peter Baelish. He speaks to a sex worker whose daughter has King Robert's look. Leaving the brothel, he is ambushed by Jaime Lannister and 20 of his good men, of course. A fight breaks out in retribution for Catelyn Stark abducting Tyrion. and Jaime's men murdered Ned's escort and break the hand's leg during the fight. This is, of course, a chapter where we're going to get a few Rhaegar and Lyanna nods and a lot of darker thoughts from Ned as he really descends into more of his noir part of his arc of his investigative arc.

And of course, the end of the chapter is heart-wrenching so eliana and i will be doing our best not to sob we're gonna cry girls gone cry girls gone crying girls gone crying i guess that's it so thank you for joining us um on this latest episode where we didn't really cry that much, surprisingly, of Girls Gone Canon. As always, you can find us on Podbean and on iTunes and on Google Play. Be sure to follow us on Twitter as well. We love reading your tweets. If you have any more recommendations for what you think that Sark would watch, feel free to send them our way. These are really fun. Let us know what you think about

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We'd love to chat. Girls gone chatting. Girls gone chatting. Anyway, I've been Eliana, also known as Glass Table Girl. I've been Eliana also known as glass table girl I've been Chloe also known as at Liza and Arbor on the internet and we have been

girls gone canon thanks so much and be sure to tune in next week for Ned 8 and Ned 9