Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 47 - Jon AGOT II/III

Episode Date: April 12, 2019

Goodbyes are hard - and Jon Snow braves a particularly hard one in faring Bran well before heading toward the wall.  He is taught a lesson in humility by Donal Noye, and extends an olive branch to some of the men on the wall who thought he was a bully. Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com 

Hello and welcome to episode 47 of Girls Gone Canon, John 2 and John 3 in a Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as LiesInArbor or at my blog at LiesInArborGold.com. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as GlastableGirl from the Maester Monthly Podcast or the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. Maybe you know me as Arithmetic on Twitter. Who knows? Anything could happen. Anything could. It's anyone's game. Of Thrones. Oh my god. Guys, we are on our

second Jon episode. I'm really excited that we got through that first one. Everybody seemed to have some positive reactions, so thanks so much to those of you who reached out to us we're glad you're enjoying it because i think we i don't know we've just been doing sansa and theon for a while so it's a new person to have a new take on it is and this is just to by the time we get to whatever pov after this we're gonna be like man we've been on john

for a long time yeah holy crap that's gonna be interesting i uh we got a lot a long time. Yeah. Holy crap. That's gonna be interesting. We got a lot a long road. Oh, we do. A long road. But we are interspersing a lot of those John chapters, of course, with the Season 8 Game of Thrones episode commentary. Yes, we're really excited about doing those. The next

episode you hear after this episode, John 2 and John 3, will actually be Season 8, Episode 1. Yes. We'll be talking about Game of Thrones. I don't know. I don't think we've named what we're calling it. Should we call this The Girls Watch Thrones? I don't know. I don't know. I really like

and obviously we're not taking this. I just want to shout out, you know, Game of Thrones' Watch the Throne. I like that reference to the Jay-Z Kanye collab album. Yes. Yes. I love that reference to the Jay-Z, Kanye collab album. Yes. Yes. I love that.

Did you hear there's a rumor that there's a rap project, hip-hop R&B project for Game of Thrones happening? I heard a rumor online that- There's already been two. The Roots and- No, that there's another happening for this season. Oh, another one. The Roots, The Weeknd, a bunch of people collaborating

on it. No, I haven't heard about that. Yeah, we'll have to do some digging. I heard a rumor about it. Maybe it was on Reddit, but I saw it and that really intrigued me. That's some big marketing. It is. I mean, yeah, they had done this in mixtapes on it in the past, but they're always enjoyable.

It'd be nice if they did another one. On top of our Game of Thrones episodes, if you've been following along the last few episodes and weeks, we are doing a Patreon stretch goal. We're getting very close to that goal. We want to do a live stream for patrons. Kind of a VIP live stream. If you get the link, you get the link.

You know what I mean. If you get past the bouncer at the door, who are we to know? Who are we to know? Who are we to know? So make friends to your friends, I guess. But for $1 and up, you will have access to this live stream, a link to this live stream. And it looks like we're going to be doing that at the end of April. So get us to our goals so we don't look like jerks.

Yes. Yeah, you can check that out at patreon.com slash girls gone canon. We are excited to hopefully do that we would like to do that yeah if not we're just gonna skype each other yeah we have ideas not recording exactly we're just gonna talk as we do anyway every day we kind of do talk every day we're friends yeah we do we check in we check in uh this podcast to you know, to build a family, a podcast, a home. The podcast stays, whatever. The podcast survives.

We really couldn't do these episodes without you guys. Obviously, you guys are what makes these episodes fun for us. And we have tons of emails and tweets and just different things we get in every week from friends of the podcast, listeners. We had a great tweet from ink tentacles who has totally figured us out uh we're always getting asked what our method is for these povs and our method really isn't anything particular it's not like uh only characters that have this color eye or you know anything weird like that it's really just how their thematics add up if they're related in

thematics and ink tentacles on twitter figured it out they said i love how these poatics add up if they're related in thematics and ink tentacles on twitter figured it out they said i love how these povs tie up into each other first we have sansa's perspective as a prisoner and hostage followed by theon's hostage situation and the feeling of being an outsider in winterfell which ties perfectly together with john yes obviously these aren't the only sort of ways that we have structured our POV order. And I'm very excited, you know, whenever we get to the next one to reveal that one. Because I think, we personally think, of course, because we fucking made it, that all of it makes sense. But there is a method to our madness.

There really is. Oh, you want to do another one then i could be glad sure and then we have this other tweet from fatma aka lulu 801 who says book john is my favorite character and you have really done this very well looking forward to what's coming regarding john's bastardy i always thought what annoyed him more than the inheritance is the fact that people assume that he is evil by nature and he wanted to prove them wrong it's probably something we're going to talk about a lot in this episode with that entitlement that he kind of has i mean he grew up as ned stark's son uh whether or not you're a bastard you're still the son of a noble man and you still lived kind of a privileged life so it's a little

different it's not inheritance that he wants he just wants to prove to the world that he's just another guy yeah and i think when we are talking about inheritance we're especially talking about that scene that comes a lot later in storm between stannis and john and how john reflects on thinking and john and how john reflects on thinking once that he would have winterfell and it's less that he wanted that inheritance and you know like because that that desire for inheritance is what leads some people to think that bastards are evil by nature or whatever and like obviously john isn't we see all that and it's more it's less john wanting an inheritance and more of him wanting some sort of i think home equality like not being treated like he desires that inheritance and wanting i don't know to just feel like he belongs with the rest of his family like you said home and that's where

you get that kind of really similar thematic arc as denarius right yes uh that how she you know craves that red door she remembers you know the big warm arms of someone and just the red door lemon trees she remembers it all and she just wants that feeling of safety security and home and john especially i mean he's scared he's going off to do something that maybe he shouldn't have chosen to do uh but he there was no place for him where he was he didn't really have a home he's kind of like that little uh is it a duck or what is it that walks around saying are you my mother it it is a little duckling i like saying i about that book, though, in the context of Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr. Yep.

But, of course, Jon's arc may very much end up following something a little similar to Beric Dondarrion. So it would be apt for Jon to go around being like, are you my mother? And then Kate, one of our friends on Twitter, at Duk dukes f04 said that she was cracking up at work yesterday was thinking how emo john snow calling marcella vapid was another nod to rhaegar i bet that's what he thought of cersei i thought that was just a really fun call out an idea that rhaegar might have thought that of cersei i think that's great again we do not think marcella's vapid but i wouldn't be surprised if rhaegar thought that of Cersei. She's not vapid. There's a lot in there, but it's all real loud and weird.

Yeah. It's weird. Jon's outsider-ness, it's a little much. I think maybe George was a little too on the nose there. I don't know. It's hard to think of Jon being so like, ugh. But it is a great parallel to that idea of Rhaegar probably being like, Cersei's the worst. Maybe two on the nose,

like the writing in A Game of Thrones, it's really interesting jumping from dance chapters back to A Game of Thrones. And of course, we're going to see that progression of George's writing, because obviously as people write more and they do things for years, they become better at it.

And you see that between game and dance so it'll be interesting also following these chapters throughout all five of those books and I think some things are not as deftly done as he would be able to do them now

for sure and then finally we have a tweet from our good friend Brendan Beefish of Nautica. The Brendan Beefish? Hoops. Hoops. He said of

our John 1 episode, this was an outstanding episode. I mean, I'm going to brush my shoulders. But anyways, the ghost of Liana hovering over John's entire arc and John 1 in particular was a particularly my shoulders but anyways the ghost of liana hovering over john's entire arc and john one in particular was a particularly brilliant touch on the cannon girl's part i mean like we're gonna talk about liana i i just thought that this was a good call out because you can't talk about john without talking about liana i want to have a disclaimer on our podcast that you may have noticed that we speak on this podcast as if rhaegar and liana and having john as a child is a canon

thing and that's because it is uh so hopefully as you read this story with us you agree or you come to the great senses that we have because that's just what it is that it is what it is john's rhaegar and liana's kid that's that's the thing that's the whole thing that's just what it is. It is what it is. Jon's Rhaegar and Lyanna's kid. That's the thing. That's the whole thing. That's the whole story. It is. And I mean, who else embodies the same moodiness of Rhaegar as Jon?

It's only Jon. Well, yeah. Or maybe it's Ashara Dayne. Oh my gosh. She killed herself. Yeah, but I guess she'd also be like, Everyone abandoned me. Is that an actual reason people think that like do they think that john is moody because his mom was ashara if they think that ned

and ashara are john's parents is that what they think i don't think so do they think that's a no i don't think so i should tell them you should tell them I should give them that one. They could use that. We're going to jump into our lightning round. Yeah, let's jump into our lightning round. I'm moving us. What we missed between John 1 and John 2. In Catalan 2, Catalan decodes a letter from her sister and convinces her husband to go to King's Landing as Hand of the King. I'm just imagining Catalan with a decoder ring from a cereal box.

Arya won. Frustrated with her needlework, Arya skips class to hang out with her brothers. Bran too. Bran discovers a secret that pushes him into a coma. That's one way to put it. Tyrion won.

Tyrion advises his princely nephew to pay his respects to the Starks and he breaks his fast with Jaime and Cersei. Jon 2. Jon makes his way around Winterfell to say his goodbyes, lingering on his half-brother Bran, comatose in bed, and eventually giving Arya a needle of her own. Sounds like sex, it's not a- Oh my god! This is- This is not the 93 letter. John 2. John and Ghost ascend the steps of the still and warm castle, and he stands frozen outside of Bran's room,

while Ghost licks his fingers for courage, and he composes himself and finally enters. Because Lady Stark has not left Bran's side since his fall. Yeah, she's had all of her meals and chamber pots brought to her, and she's scarcely even slept. There's a small bed that was even brought up there. She just keeps feeding Bran this honey, water, herb mixture to sustain him daily.

Yeah. But because she's there, Jon is afraid to speak, and for a moment, it's as though Catelyn doesn't see him, until you know of course she does. What are you doing here? She asked in a that know, of course, she does. What are you doing here? She asked in a... That wasn't really flat, I guess. What are you doing here?

She asked in a voice strangely flat and emotionless. He's come to say goodbye to Bran, and she tells him that they don't want him there and threatens to call the guards. But of course, Jon is brave, and he knows he's about to become a man of the Night's Watch. So he pushes down his tears and his fears and stands up to become a man of the night's watch so he pushes down his tears and his fears and stands up to her telling her that you can't stop me from saying goodbye

as much as i love catelyn we learn a lot of how she's abused john emotionally and iced him out his whole life george says that like she didn't really pay much attention to him but as others have discussed that neglect in and of itself of how caitlin treats john right to towards a child can be can be very abusive and and like theon john has been made a stranger in his own home john tells bran leaning over him that he rob the girls rick on all of them are waiting for him to wake up. He starts to cry. He feels tears on his face, and he no longer cares what Catelyn thinks. He tells Bran he has to go, that Uncle Benjen is waiting for him before the snows get too heavy. He kisses Bran lightly on the lips, and Cat begins to speak to him.

I wanted him to stay here with me, Lady Stark said softly. John watched her wary. She was not even looking at him. She was talking to him, but for a part of her, it was as though he were not even in the room. I prayed for it, she said dully. He was my special boy. I went to the set and prayed seven times to the seven faces of God that Ned would change his mind and leave him here with me. Sometimes prayers are answered. John did not know what to say. It wasn't your fault, he managed, after an awkward silence.

Her eyes found him. They were full of poison. I need none of your absolution, bastard. John lowered his eyes. She was cradling one of Bran's hands. He took the other, squeezed it, fingers like the bones of birds. Goodbye, he said. He was at the door when she called out to him. John, she said. He should have kept going, but she'd never called him by his name before. He turned to find her looking at his face as if she were seeing it for the first time.

Yes, he said. It should have been you, she told him. Then she turned back to Bran and began to weep, her whole body shaking with the sobs. Jon had never seen her cry before. It was a long walk down to the yard. Hoo boy. Hoo boy. Yeah, it's messed up.

So she's lost in grief. John symbolizes that one broken link in her perfect rose-colored family. But obviously there's a lot more underneath that surface that she's not coming to terms with. He's this stain on Ned's honor. And she wasn't even supposed to be with this man who bore a bastard.

Ironically, she was supposed to be with Brandon, who probably has a ton of bastards. If you haven't checked out Joe Magician's piece on Brandon Stark's bastards, it's just really fun. He speculates about who he could have been with and what people in the story could have been bastards of Brandon. It's a nice little nice thing. And so you hear it in what John has said here. John has never been called by name by Catalin. He suffered emotional abuse for 14 years. It may have been subtle on some days and awful on others,

but it's definitely left these scars in John and his behavior. He's frozen before he goes in the room. He left these scars in Jon and his behavior. He's frozen before he goes in the room. He's afraid to say goodbye to his brother. The difference here is that Brandon Stark wouldn't have brought any of those bastards home, right? Ned is too honorable for his own good, so he brings Jon home and acknowledges him and also keeps that promise that he made to his sister. He should have left Jon somewhere like Starfall, we've mentioned that would have been probably his best option or leave him in dorn but the problem is that they might use him politically and it breaks that promise he made to liana to keep him safe so what you're saying is ned should have left john with his

mother's family down down in starfall but yeah as as you said it shouldn't have had to have been this way and you know like we are trying to focus more in the scene on the effect of caitlin on john's storyline we'll obviously talk about this in caitlin's whenever we get to her but like you can see that caitlin is framed here as kind of an antagonist in john's storyline like he comes away from this encounter by having finally like stood up to her he he's feeling those fear and he faces and overcomes those fears by going into that room as he's leaving winterfell and he grows from that as with many difficult situations and feelings of neglect and abuse like john doesn't lay all those feelings to rest just because he's overcome this one moment it comes up every now and then in other chapters there is a

part of me that wonders if this scene was kind of set up to be like i don't know reversal or closure between them or like later on there would be because in the 93 letter kat is heading to the wall with aa and Bran to presumably, of course, to Jon, where she sees that there might be safety for them after everything goes down. As he gets to the yard, it's bustling. There are wagons and people

everywhere. Rob is shouting commands amidst all the chaos, and he seems taller and larger and more grown up since, of course, everyone had been grieving for bran oh rob and rob tells john that uncle benjamin's waiting for you john says leaving is harder than he thought and rob agrees and of course we have that scene with rob and the snowflakes falling and melting in his hair so sad it really is innocence innocence every it's how everyone sees rob he's out there with the

snow falling in his hair so beautiful so sad brothers they're brothers in their hearts john saw brand and john knots unable to speak because he's afraid that he will cry he's afraid of giving himself away to tears rob says Bran won't die, he knows it and Jon responds with you Starks are hard to kill uh in this moment Jon has damned all of them

all of them died because of Jon I mean that's what Catelyn no that's not what she would say but yeah anyways his voice was flat and tired, the visit had taken all the strength from him That's what Katlyn... No, that's not what she would say, but yeah. Anyways. His voice was flat and tired. The visit had taken all the strength from him.

My mother. She was very kind, John told him. Rob looked relieved. Good, he smiled. The next time I see you, you'll be all in black. Like, he fucking isn't now. John forced himself to smile back. It was always my my color how long do you think it'll be soon enough rob promised he pulled john to him and embraced him fiercely farewell snow john hugged him back and you stark take care of bran

like tearing up as we repeat this scene I'm tearing up too black was always my color of course going into Night's Watch but also and red and red this chapter is so yes

yes this chapter is so heavy handed in all of the foreshadowing and thematics I think it goes into that whole 93 letter This chapter is so heavy-handed in all of the foreshadowing and thematics. I think it goes into that whole 93 letter. I think there's a lot of those echoes in here. If you haven't noticed, as we said, we're treating RLJ as it's canon, because it is.

And this whole entire book is just throwing things at you. Snow, Ned! It is. Also, of course, I love that they're like yeah black is john's color because he's like a booty ass teenage boy but this is such a good chapter in terms of setting up the relationships in john's life that have shaped him because if we don't have this moment between john and rob then the pull that John feels to desert the Night's Watch

doesn't have that same like foundation. It's, it's just such a beautiful moment, like because we, we can feel it. John clearly feels it. The love that he has for his family members, like Arya and Rob and Bran, for example, and even Sansa and Rickon. I mean, he does think fondly of them. He has that memory later on when he thinks about all of them doing things at Winterfell and Sansa brushing Lady's coat and singing to herself and just all these sweet little memories. You know, Jon loves this family, no matter how much abuse Lady Catelyn

handed to him emotionally as he grew up. He loved them enough that this made up for it, you know, and he would be willing to forsake it all if it meant he could go fight for a place to be in that family. Yeah. Or for Rob to live like, like Theon, I should have died with him. Yeah. Rob tells John then, like, if he's finished, Benjen is ready. But of course, John has one last goodbye to make. To Arya.

He stops in the armory. He picks up a package and off to Arya's chambers he goes. She's been locked in her room, packing. She's not allowed to leave until she's done. And Nymeria, her wolf, is pacing back and forth, bringing Arya items of clothing as she points to them. It's the cutest thing. It's just the cutest scene ever because

namiria is like actually like very well trained somehow um and then namiria senses ghosts and then she sits back on her like haunches you know like dog dog wolves do which prompts aria to roll around and sees john and then she also very cute just jump hugs. She glomps him, as we say in the anime world. And she explains that she didn't fold her clothes very ladylike enough. So Septimor Dan was like, you're gonna do it again. Until it's right. A proper southern

lady doesn't just throw her clothes inside her chest like old rags, she says. I mean... It's cute. It's... Arya. I mean, Arya'sria's in my opinion aria's right i too would just throw my shit messed up again she's right though yeah but she's not supposed to she's supposed to fold them like a lady and rick hondo would be so upset i mean so like i have mixed feelings i'm just gonna talk about folding clothes for a moment. Like, on one hand, like, sometimes you don't got time.

You got to just throw shit in your bag and be like, all right, this is it. But, like, what if you're going for multiple days and you need to fit more things? Sometimes you do need to fold it if you want to bring more clothes. Yeah. Shit's hard, dude. Absolutely.

Absolutely. This scene really shows us why Arya and Jon get along so well, right? They're brunette outsiders and they're very redhead home uh they're the closest to their dad looks wise so they obviously feel that connection but they just kind of feel like outsiders they do they do and within their society too of course Not just in their home. John points out Septimordain probably wouldn't love Nymeria packing with Arya, but since that he's

there and they're packing, Arya can pack the super secret present he brought her, which is, of course, a needle of her own. A sword. A sword! He tells her to close the door. It's the same exact language. It is. It's the 93 letter to close the door it's the same exact language it is i was no 93 letter close the door and come here i noticed that too but i was also just like interesting 93 letter john and aria it's canon aria's eyes went wide dark eyes like his a sword she said in a small hushed breath.

Yes, I love it. I love that they talk about their dark gray eyes. Yes. I think that's great. And I think it's interesting that George doesn't focus on it often. He builds it in the first and then lets it fall out. So you forget like, oh, Liana looked like Arya.

Oh, why are these hints here? Yeah, there's a lot of triangulation but it's it's very intentional on george's part needle steel is a deep blue sheen and he takes it out of its soft gray leather case he tells her to be careful that it's sharp enough to shave with are you responding girls don't shave suddenly everything about this world in west row seems okay to me, by the way. Like that gang rape violence and systemic class issues. Sure, whatever.

But hairy legs? I'm good. I can live there. I'm in. I belong. You need it, right? You got to use it to keep in some of that warmth, maybe. Yeah.

In winter, we keep hair on our legs. Yeah. And I mean, things aren't super hygienic. You don't always have, like, underwear, like... Yeah. You need that hair to protect your private bits. You need the hair in general.

That's why we grow it, people. Yes, America. Get it together. Needle is skinny, just like her. And John actually had it specially made in the forge by Micken.

And he had it styled after the Braavosi swords. He says it won't be able to chop a man's head off, but it certainly could fill him full of holes. I think that's crazy interesting because that's like Arya's whole thing, right? She trains under a Braavosi. Her dad's head gets chopped off. She tries to make it alone in the wild. She ends up poking people full of holes, right? We get that part in Arya 13 in Storm.

Is there gold in the village? She shouted as she drove the blade up his back. Is there silver? Gems? She stabbed twice more. Is there food? Where's Lord Beric? You know, just the how many, how many, how many, how many,

poke, poke, poke, poke. Oh, that's a part of this plot. And then she actually ends up in bravos uh like i said lots of heavy-handed hinting here oh for sure and like it's great because the style of sword that john chose for her first of all john has done his research good job john all right looking that looking that shit up but then that leads to of course ned as long as well as you saying that they're going to bravos he picks someone who is knowledgeable in that style of sword play and then john gives aria uh her first lesson which is to stick them with the pointy end

and of course like there's a theory that john returns from the dead changed and missing some of his memory a la barrick don darian i personally am like a big subscriber to that theory as well as the corollary to it like um not a cast actually does a really great breakdown of this theory in one of the john chapters that they did i forgot which one um it was specifically and how this this uh lost memory might mean that john wouldn't really recognize jane pool as you know jane and like might actually believe that she is aria since he is missing some of his memory and i do think that this is significant because like for those i do think that this is significant because like theon won in wins puts so much emphasis on masssey, Justin Massey taking Jane north, and how that separates Jane, of course, from Theon's POV. And that basically means that besides Jon, we have no other POVs or

characters who know what Arya looks like up at the wall. So no one's there to dispute Jon's like mistake. And the pieces are all really falling together structurally. But like in regards like to the word stick them with the pointy end um i actually like i thought of this when i was listening to you chloe on uh the game of owns podcast when you were all discussing aria and stuff like how aria story is just full of these magic words they act kind of like you know the open sesame and aladdin and things like that like valar mergulis buys her entry into the house of black and white and i kind of wonder if stick them with the pointy end are going to be the magic words for like between aria and this like a broken version of john that's like it's me i'm the real aria oh that's interesting that would be a really

interesting plot i mean the weird thing is he's going with massy right yeah uh she's going off with massy right now so i'm interested to see whether she meets Arya first or whether Jon meets her first. Yeah, that's true. That's true. She could be like, that's weird. You know, like the way she like kind of sees Jon, not Jon, Sam, like off at the side. Right. And she's like, this is a nice guy.

Yes, absolutely. Arya's worried she's not going to meet anyone to practice with in King's Landing, she tells Jon. You'll find someone, Jon promised her. King's Landing is a true city, a thousand times the size of Winterfell. Until you find a partner, watch how they fight in the yard. Run and ride, make yourself strong in whatever you do. Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together.

Don't tell Sansa! Goddammit. Yeah, just put them together. Pretend we actually did it. Oh my god. I don't know. I don't understand siblings, but this is kind of what I imagine

it's supposed to be like. Probably. I mean, same. I don't understand siblings, but this is kind of what I imagine it's supposed to be like. Probably. I mean, same. They laugh, but finally they have to depart each other. John messed up her hair. I'll miss you, little sister. Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. I wish you were coming with us. Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?

Oh, no. Like the the red keep are you saying the red keep king egg oh king egg the keg also mckegg also i love he says in this passage if i leave any later my whole first year on the wall will be emptying chamber pots and then he becomes the Lord Commander's steward. Yes. Again, heavy handed. I love that though. I'm not gonna act like I don't like that cheesiness right there because I do. It makes you feel smart.

Yeah and also there's that reminds me of that the poop montage in season 7. I like that scene. I like that montage. I stan it. I know you do. In the shit it out? Yeah, I have a breakdown of it over on the Night's Cast. Go listen to them. We're gonna just call out everyone today.

After the embrace, Jon actually almost forgets to ask her what the sword's name is because, you know, all the best swords have names. Can't you guess? Jon teased. Your very favorite thing. Arya's seen puzzled at first then it came to her she was that quick they said it together we have to do this again okay ready three

two one needle the memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north oh maybe you're right this is what siblings do, right? They just say things at the same time. I don't know. Maybe the siblings we made along the way. That sounds weird when we spit it like that. Anyways. It's that 93 outline letter. Oh my god.

Just banging. Oh my god. The siblings making siblings. Wow. Other than that, there's some really great groundwork in this chapter like all the relationships that define john like cat rob and aria you know george is just showing us how close john and aria are they don't finish each other's sentences they say them at the exact same time i guess general general characterization stuff yeah and then the warmth of Ari's laughter and like, you know, Rob's snowflakes

in his hair. It's all so warm and soft and different in contrast with the coldness at Castle Black, which we're gonna get to in a second. So, without further ado, we jump into our lightning round for John 3. What we missed between John 2 and John 3? The first thing we missed is Daenerys

2, in which Daenerys marries Khal Drogo. And we get to Eddard 2. Robert and Ned ride through the Berylons, discussing Daenerys' marriage and the ghosts of the Rebellion. In Tyrion 2, Tyrion accompanies John North, debating about how life will be on the Wall. Catelyn 3. Catelyn finds herself waking from a coma in Bran's tower now that he's under attack and she holds off the assailant long enough for summer to protect them.

Sansa 1. Sansa's taken on the perfect date by her crown prince but as they come upon Arya and her friend play fighting the date dissolves

in her hands. You're spoiling it. Eddard's spoiling everything. Eddard III. Eddard's daughters are brought to a pop-up trial on what happened at the Rui Ford.

Arya and Joffrey's stories wildly differ, and when Sansa's unable to condemn Joffrey, her wolf suffers for it. Bran III. Bran dreams of a crow teaching him to fly, and he awakens to his wolf named Summer and his broken body Catelyn 3

Catelyn sails to King's Landing with Ser Rodrik meeting with Littlefinger and Varys to uncover the identity of the Cat's Paw Jon 3 Jon's attitude doesn't exactly make him friends at the wall several other new recruits gang up on him, and Donald Noy helps him understand why he's not making friends.

After meeting up with Tyrion, Jon speaks with Jeor Mormont, who tells him that his half-brother has awakened. Woo! The courtyard ring to the Song of Swords! Yes, song imagery, just like that song imagery that was so prevalent in theon's last chapters as in it is in sansa's chapters comes back around with john in the form of sword play george kind of uses sword play sword play as a a symbolical you know just a pin to put in places right we see that with brienne and jamie with their sexual tension and their fight. It's just interesting, and especially

because Jon really starts this chapter off with that same Winterfell naivety we see in Sansa. This is kind of like his tourney, right? Like he's arriving at Castle Black. This is everything the men of the songs are supposed to be. Aemon the Dragon Knight and Daeron the Young Dragon, his heroes of songs that he thinks

about. It's the tourney for him but it turns to dog shit kind of instead of being this magical thing he learns wow the wall really isn't this beautiful magical experience and it's also similar to the way that theon romanticizes ironborn culture right like and how he's like i'm going to be a hero and we're going to have all these ships and we're going to restore our former glory and turns out like everyone hates him everyone's like who the fuck are you major theon vibes in that they're like who is this guy lord snow i mean that's exactly what it is right because like in the courtyard of castle black john's over here he's besting a boy named gren and then alistair thorne calls

it all off and gren complains that john broke his wrist and alicer is like if these swords had an edge you'd be dead and then he insults everyone including john this is not what john thought this was gonna be like so we get that first mention of lord snow john hated that name a mockery sir alicer had hung on him the first day he came to practice. The boys had picked it up, and now he heard it everywhere. He slid the sword, the longsword, back into its scabbard. No, he replied. Thorn strode toward him, crisp black leathers whispering faintly as he moved. He was a compact man. That's such an interesting word. Compact man of fifty years, spare and hard, with gray and black hair, and eyes like chips of onyx. The truth now, he commanded.

grains, black hair, and eyes like chips of onyx. The truth now, he commanded. I'm tired, John admitted. His arm burned from the weight of the longsword, and he was starting to feel bruises now that the fight was done. What you are is weak. I won. No, the Oryx lost. One of the other boys sniggered. John knew better than to reply. He had beaten everyone Sir Alistair had sent against him, yet it gained him nothing. The Master-at-Arms served up only derision. Thorne hated him, Jon had decided. Of course, he hated the other boys even worse. Yeah, Alistair Thorne just hates everyone.

Yeah, Alistair Thorne hates his life, dude. Don't take it personally. You think he wants to be there? I mean, like, he's at the wall because Robert made him go because he's a Targaryen supporter, which is biggest i know i know i really wonder i i don't know if we're going to get that like reveal for alistair thorne i want it to happen but nothing nothing like comes together that well right like right we those those moments are intentionally withheld from us by george it's interesting though because at the same time of him being this big adult bully alistair thorne

i mean now that he has the night's watch he kind of has taken to like this is all he has so he wants it to be spectacular in the way it's supposed to be and this is the way the night's watch should be run and boy we're gonna run it this way obviously it's not the right way but I will give him that that he's just this old man trying to put pride in all he has left he is but like you don't have to do that by pushing down everyone around you

you can do it by lifting them up and making a beautiful wonderful great legacy yeah solidarity exactly yeah and I don't know again Jon's upset because he's beaten everyone that thorne has sent against him but he's like not getting anything from it he's getting no fucking pats on the back well and of course that's where it comes in that the goal of this exercise isn't really technically you know to be the best it's to improve your team yeah to find the weak

link and have that person train to get better it's about improving john you're supposed to be a team the night swatch is a team and he doesn't get that yet he will by the end of the chapter but he doesn't get that yet yes he has no friends there no one not even the more senior recruits are as good as he or rob are at fighting that he thinks and i just really need to call out this line because i'm never gonna let go how pubescent john is he's like john followed the rest back to the armory walking alone he often walked alone here and it just reminds me of that line from boulevard of broken dreams of i walk alone and i walk my shadows Only one that walks beside me.

Because you know that John loves this song. He plays this song every day when he gets back to his cell. And he listens to it on repeat. You know, interestingly enough, yes, he does love that song. However, right before we did this episode, I want you to know that I did an experiment where I listened to My Chemical Romance. And for about an hour that i did an experiment where i listened to my chemical romance and for about an hour it's an experiment and you know i think he definitely listens to my chemical romance he's he's obviously singing helena to himself as he lights egret's pyre on fire so

it's both different phases of his life you know right now is his like his boulevard of broken dreams phase and then later on he's gonna yeah his green day phase but not like the more pop punk stuff like here it's the sad sad stuff yeah you know it's it's funny though because he says he often walked alone here um you've been here for like a week i often walk alone here you've been here literally one week. Sit down, John. Dude, a week's a long-ass time when you're only 14 years old. It feels real long. Yeah, that's very true. It does feel very long.

Now that, you know, we are- 14 is a hell of a drug. It is, when you're weathered and all the time just goes by so quickly. We get some quick descriptions of the other recruits, right? We get Darren, the later deserter. He's quick, but he fears being hit. Pip uses his sword like a dagger. Ren is slow and clumsy.

Jon thinks that Jaren was weak as a girl. Not okay, Jon. Yeah, chill the fuck out, Jon. Yeah, he thinks Halder hits hard, but he isn't good at dodging. The more time he spent with them, the more Jon despised them. Okay, you're thinking of these people so negatively. You don't know them.

And again, he's just so judgy. This isn't a contest, John. They didn't choose to be here. None of these people want to be here right now. I know. Such moodiness. Despised. It's such a strong word.

And it's always cold here at the wall. But I think this is a fun line that might be some foreshadowing. Like, in a few years, he would forget what it felt like to be warm like of course yeah like sure it's cold but like is it because you're dead yes yes also because of the long

night coming oh that too that too in a few years he's gonna be fighting the whites oh wow so much foreshadowing in these yes chapters so heavy-handed the people are even colder at the wall just like who thinks only tyrian knew the truth of what being a castle black would have been like and he wonders if eddard knew you know like there was that scene in tyrian where tyrian almost makes john cry and i'm like tyrian everyone needs to chill the fuck

out anyways john thinks that ned knew what being at the wall would be like and feels even sadder at that of course he knew he did but and actually he didn't really want John to go to the wall yeah John just like woke up and was like well no one wants me here and my dad's going south and I can't stay here with Lady Catelyn

so I gotta go and I guess I'll just go where I might be wanted where bastards are welcome. And that's just like, uh, I don't know what to do. He's like, I can't deal with this right now. I have to go deal with my personal trauma, and my other kids, and the fucking king,

who's being a giant kid right now, and rule the kingdom now, apparently. But there's also, again, another line in Jon that I also need to call out even his uncle benjen had abandoned him in this cold place at the end of the world so many moods john it's so dramatic it's so great you literally decided to do this you got a wild hair up your ass and you woke up and you were like my family sucks and they all are feasting with

royals and I'm gonna go to the wall. You chose this. This is what you chose. This is what happens when you make- Being a teenager is hard. This is what happens when you make drunken decisions, John. Yeah, making a drunk decision the first time you ever got drunk. This is what you chose. Like you chose a life of celibacy in a winter

wasteland. Yeah. He could still leave. He hasn't taken the oaths yet. That's true. Before Benjen went on his ranging, he warns Jon that he cannot go on the ranging and that people only get what they earn at the wall.

Debatable. We'll get into that. You're no ranger, Jon. Only a green boy, but the smell of summer is still on you. Stupidly, John argued. That might be my favorite line in the whole entire book. Stupidly, John argued. I'll be 15 on my name day, he said, almost a man grown.

Benjen Stark frowned. A boy you are, and a boy you'll remain until Sir Alistair says, You were fit to be a man in the Night's Watch. If you thought your Stark blood would win you easy favors, you were fit to be a man in the night's watch if you thought your stark blood would win you easy favors you were wrong i mean debatable we put aside our old families when we swear our vows your father will always have a place in my heart but these are my brothers now i mean and he didn't listen to his uncle he literally still didn't learn the lesson he has to learn it from donald noy later yeah he goes how like how do i reach these kids um shit man when is he going to

start he's got to get to the point where he's saying shit at the same time as all these other boys like he was with aria oh i get it now that's the joke that's the contrast between how he feels with his siblings and how he feels with these people who are supposed to be his family now. I see it. They're not. They're not, yes. So as he leaves, Benjen tells Jon, we'll speak when I return, which that's a famous last line if I've ever heard it.

It really is. It truly is. Yeah, there's what Rhaegar, Brandon, Benjen said. They all said, we'll talk about it when I come back in fact they did not come yeah it's like when what the guy says he's about to retire in two days

and then dies that same trope and again not gonna let this go about how much of an emo little boy Jon is being right now because as benjamin leaves then john out of like um spite imagines his uncle dying on a snowy road and his blood coming out and then he's like feels a little guilty and then afterward and then it goes

afterward he sought out ghost in the loneliness of his cell and buried his face in his thick white fur if he must be alone, he would make solitude his armor. This is not what Tyrion told you. I know. Tyrion, armor yourself in it. It will never be used to hurt you. Jon, I'm gonna have a solitude of armor.

I don't know. Yeah, he's so 14. Loneliness is my cloak, is my only friend. He has such growth within a year. After he goes to the wildlings, I think that's true. He has such growth within this chapter, too. We're all just such small

babs, and I don't know, who agreed to elect a 15, 16-year-old boy to be their leader? Who agreed to this? Sam. I thought this was a good idea. Of course Sam did, because he's that same age. I know, did the adults agree to this I just want to

there's this tweet that was going around on Twitter not related to A Song of Ice and Fire necessarily but I thought it was hilarious it comes from Johnny McNulty the most unrealistic part of fantasy books is when 18 year old boys spend 5 bucks insisting they're not the chosen one

instead of immediately saying yeah that sounds right i i just really yeah yeah that sounds about right there's this interesting line that we get in this passage uh based on what we learn and you know of course the others castle black had no godswood only a small sept and a drunken septon but john could not find it in him to pray to any gods old or new if they were real he thought they were as cruel and implacable as winter just think it's interesting we're not going to go that deep into it but you know it's interesting in the context of the children and the others and the whites yeah cruel and implacable gods that's what the the others are truly truly and in what is another likely dish of irony john

is missing his quote-unquote true brothers yeah there's all these heavy bits of hey secretly john's not related to them and he's always felt like an outsider and he's never fit in and he's secretly the king did you notice it's just peppered through all these books uh in in clash of kings we focus more on the parentage over everything he has all those thoughts with egret and guilt wondering if this is how his father felt when he hooked up with his mom uh but the whole books have these underlying just tones of hey something's not right here john's not who you think he is yeah there's a lot of really masterful double entendres i'm noticing it so much more this time around. Even little tiny things that are just little play of words.

Yeah. And yeah, everything's going to be recontextualized. Of course, he misses Arya the most of his siblings, even more than he misses Rob. Skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes so fierce and willful aria never seemed to fit no more than he had yet she could always make john smile he would give anything to be with her now to muss up her hair once more and watch

her make a face to hear her finish a sentence with him no you guys don't finish each other's sentences you say them at the same time i've seen it i've seen it yeah we literally just tried to do this last last chapter we get on oh my god uh yeah aria understands him as we learned last chapter that's pretty much what we're hearing here yeah finish each other's sandwiches and part of me is like is this 93 letter vibes again always always oh yeah yeah just make it weird eliana thanks oh you're welcome now it's what you're known for. Now it's his aunt, you know? This is what we wanted, right? Hey, yeah, exactly. It's better than being his half-sister slash cousin, right?

I do think it's better. It is better. I don't know. Do you? I don't know. I don't know. Whatever. All incest is incest.

While Jon is imagining his siblings, Jon is ambushed because Grenn toad and some other boys are here. There's a weird jump also in this chapter where he like is in a cell. The next thing we know he's in the armory. I really don't get it where he's being ambushed. Anyways, Grenn toad. It's kind of weird. It's a if you if you blink, you'll miss like the very tiny context of where he is. Yeah, it it's a little clumsy anyway first book out of five grand toad and some other boys are there because john makes them look bad and john like thinks they are all bullies and like wait till you hear you're actually the bully john you publicly embarrass them they're just here to pay up you know like you publicly embarrass those

bitches yeah it's true though even though they're bigger than him john thinks on how he bested all of them in the yard and that it wouldn't be hard to take them all on he threatens to beat them but before he can get his sword one of the boys twists it behind his back and then john shouts some sick comebacks at them and i don't know john really does have good comebacks and then then Toad says, The little lordling has a mouth on him, he said. He had pig eyes. Is he a toad or a pig? Anyway, small and shiny. Is that your mommy's

mouth, bastard? What was she? Some whore? Tell us her name. Maybe I had her a time or two. He laughed. Yeah, this gets John pissed. He gets a few good blows in before he's thrown on the ground and everyone just starts kicking him. Yeah, you know, like how they do it in the tv shows you know the scene where the guy falls and everyone's like comes around starts kicking him yeah absolutely we've

seen it in many high school shows yeah yeah but because you know john is super trained and stuff he like starts rolling away from the blows and makes me think maybe john is right i think maybe john really could take on all four of them at once. I think it's really an important nod that we hear that Garland is an accomplished swordsman and takes on multiple men at once to train. John is semi-capable of this at 14 that we see. So Major Jamie Lannister, Arthur Dayne vibes, right? He's a legend.

He's going to be a force to be reckoned with in the wars to come. Yes. But before all that can happen, gotta get some humbling. And Donald Noy booms in and he's like, keep the fighting out of my armory. And he breaks up the whole fight. The four boys try to pin it on John,

saying he tried to kill them and they're lying. Donald Noy sends the boys away for treatment, but tells john to stay he reminds john the watch has need of every man we have on the wall so stop being so sensitive about what people are saying about your mom and uh get with it john says whoa lord edard's honor would not allow me as a bastard of a sex worker like how dare they but donald noy is like well didn't stop him from fathering a bastard at all did it like how dare they but donald noy is like well didn't stop him from fathering a bastard at all did it and then john tries to leave but noy is like no you go when i

tell you to go like literally i mean what john what are you thinking you joined a place where like people give orders and shit and like he tells john to fucking look at him when he is speaking yeah you better put some respect on Donald Noy's name. He made Robert's war hammer. He lost his arm in the siege at Storm's End in the rebellion. Like put some respect on that. You respect Donald Noy. Yeah, he's a respectable man. He's got great advice. All right. Words won't make your mother a whore. She was what she was, and nothing Toad says can change that. You know, we have men on the wall whose mothers were whores. Not my mother, John thought stubbornly.

He knew nothing of his mother. Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful and highborn, and her eyes were kind. You think you had it hard being a High Lord's bastard? The armorer went on. That boy, Jaren,

is a septon's get. And Carter Pike is the baseborn son of a tavern wench. Now he commands Eastwatch by the sea. thinks that liana his mother which is liana in his dreams is beautiful and highborn and has kind eyes because it's a very this is very cinderella right so we talked about fiona cinderella but john snow is the ultimate cinderella story secretly the princess the prince brought up, has an evil stepmother,

you know, loved his father, but an evil stepmother. It's the total fairy tale here. And Cinderella has that, you know, head in the clouds vision of, oh, like I have a real family somewhere, you know, blah, blah, blah. I miss my mom who was beautiful and kind and dreams of her.

Well, there you go. There's Jon Snow, his little Cinderella story. Somehow in his dreams, he sees Lyanna. saying of like this the fantasy that children might harbor of secretly like their parents are not their parents and they are secretly like royalty or something like that oh yeah i'm really i'm really fucking it up but anyways no i know kind of what you're talking about yeah and of course liana was in real life kind and she stood up for what was right and she followed her heart you know so it's just interesting that he has this idea of her in his head and this idea of honor and who his dad quote unquote would have banged and that he doesn't think that ned would have just had sex

with some random harlotin he thinks that it was you know some woman which also lends credence to those people that think it's ashara but that was the point of letting people think it was a shara letting them think it was some other highborn that maybe if john came out looking like her they'd be covered yeah there's all of that and like i guess ned using it as a justification of like this is why i'm keeping keeping my bastard around because i owe it to i don't know someone the someone. The way Edric Storm gets better treatment than all the rest of Robert's bastards. Right. Life, Jon repeated bitterly.

The armorer could talk about life. He'd had one. He'd only taken the black after he'd lost an arm at the siege of Storm's End. Before that, he'd smithed for Stannis Baratheon, the king's brother. He'd seen the Seven Kingdoms from one end to the other. he'd feasted and wenched and fought in a hundred battles they said it was donald noy who'd forged robert king robert's warhammer the one that crushed the life from rhaegar targaryen on the

trident ah he'd done all the things that john would never do and then when he was old well past 30 he'd taken a glancing blow from an axe and the wound had festered until the whole arm had to I kind of find this quote really interesting because it tells you what John's values are. this chapter trying to prove himself through like his fighting prowess because that's the way that he got any sort of recognition i guess at um at winterfell that's why he feels pride when people are like oh you're better at this thing than rob or like oh you can like make a mark for yourself here because you're good at like this thing it's especially because we see how catelyn treated him and that's how he's trying to find his identity but also in the first chapter we saw that john thinks that jamie lannister looks like a king and that shows us that he's like still very much wrapped up in this idea that heroism is about strength and he hasn't unpacked that yet and he's trying to live up to that until you know the end of this discussion with donald noy and he thinks

that noy came to the knight's watch when his life was all over and that he thinks of noise life only in terms of like how he aided in this sort of like wartime heroism but like that's not the only thing that heroism is and we see that in john's character later like i think that one of john's most heroic deeds right was letting the wildlings through the wall there's no fighting involved in that and he gives the practical reason aloud to the other brothers on the wall when they're all like why the fuck are you doing this and he says that every single one of them that dies out there is another enemy that's going to come back who's going to be even more difficult to fight later on but we see internally uh he's not voicing it aloud but john is letting them through because he sees all the free folk as people he's truly seen them and cares about them i mean like donald noy's life isn't done just because he can't like fight

and do those things i mean his life is done in storm but whatever that's something i was thinking it's a little silly that john thought oh his life was over like how awful and it reminds me of uh god what was it in one of the sansa chapters when she was just thinking, oh, maybe not Barristan, but even then, you know, she thinks, oh, how horrible, like for this old man. But that's not, their life's not over. You can have a life outside of that. You can have a life doing many things outside of that. It's kind of weird because in Barristan's chapters, you kind of get that tension of both, right? He both thinks that his life is over in some ways because, I mean, he is old for their society. He is actually getting up to that point. But he didn't think that his life was over because he wasn't in King's Landing and able to fight there. He found a new purpose for himself.

And then there's this line from Donald Noy that I truly love. Yes, life, Noy said. A long life or a short one. It's up to you, Snow. The road you're walking. One of your brothers will slit your throat for you one night. On the nose. One, four, who knows how many, you know? How many of them, John?

So John snaps at Donald Loy. He says they're not his brothers. They hate me because I'm better than them. No. No. John. John. Chill out, John, baby. um no okay john chill out john baby no they hate you because you act like you're better than they are they look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he's a lordling the armor lean close you're no lordling remember that you're a snow not a stark you're a bastard and a bully a bully

john almost choked on the word the accusation was so unjust it took his breath away they were the ones who came after me four of them four that you've humiliated in the yard. Four who are probably afraid of you. I've watched you fight. It's not training with you. Put an edge on your sword and they'd be dead meat. You know it. I know it. They know it. You leave them nothing. You shame them. Does that make you proud? John hesitated. He did feel proud when he won. Why shouldn't he? But the armorer was taking that away, too, making it sound as if he was doing something wrong. They're all older than me, he said defensively. Older and bigger and stronger, that's the truth. I'll wager your master at arms taught you how to fight bigger men at Winterfell, though. Who was he? Some old knight?

Sir Roderick Cassel, John said warily. There there's a trap here he felt it closing around him donald noy leaned forward into john's face now think on this boy none of these others have ever had a master at arms until sir alicer shit the worst their fathers were farmers and wagon men and poachers smiths and miners and oars on a trading galley. What they know of fighting, they learned between decks in the alleys of Old Town and Lannisport. In wayside brothels and taverns on the King's Road, they may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here. But I promise you, not one in twenty was ever rich enough to own a real sword. His look was grim. So, how do you like the taste of your victories now, Lord Snow?

Don't call me that, John said sharply, but the force had gone out of his anger. Suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty. I never, I didn't think- Best you start thinking, Noi i warned him that or sleep with a dagger by your bed now go welcome to the real world bitch that's how that feels like that's a total like it is truth bomb like this is the real life bitch it is it's such a pivotal it's such a pivotal exchange for john and it's totally privilege i mean this is what happens when you have privilege and you don't realize even what the extent of what that privilege offers you right you're a bastard you've never had an empty plate though you've been

acknowledged as a lord's son your father doesn't beat you he doesn't drink until he passes out yeah your stepmom can be a bitch towards you sometimes but you're living an otherwise good life you have a master at arms you have the pleasure of fighting with steel beautiful steel that's forged literally in your castle somebody makes that steel into a sword you went and got a secret present made for your little sister of a sword and no one batted an eyelash no one told your dad nobody you didn't get in trouble for it you're you're privileged on snow that's what donald noy is telling you you've been private schooled your entire life by high quality teachers that your dad who shame on him fathered a

bastard paid for i'm also realizing that it's so important like there's this line in here right where donald noise says they may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here and just a few chapters before this john one this john three chapter if you will um we have the the chapter where sansa and joffrey go out and joffrey is kind of lording over his fighting ability right but with micah and micah and aria are just clacking a few sticks together he's not trained he's just doing the best he can and aria has put him in this position and i think you're supposed to see um yes a sort of parallel like there's so many that happens before right between like bastards aren't allowed to hit

princes and stuff and of, that's ironic because Bastard. Jon Snow. Prince. Yeah. Joffrey's a bastard. Jon Snow's the prince. Well. Of course. Exactly. And we're drawing those connections between like how Joffrey is acting and Jon is acting in this chapter. But Jon,

the difference is that Jon learns, right? He takes this lesson from Donald Noy and he gains humility, whereas Joffrey never does. Joffrey continues to use that power over other people. Yes.

As John leaves Donald Noy, he admires the wall, a pale gray that sometimes shines like a wall of light. Tyrion Lannister sidles up beside him and John thinks that the wall feels like the end of light. Tyrion Lannister sidles up beside him and Jon thinks that the wall feels like the end of the world.

And, of course, we get a lot of the wall in this moment and George R. R. Martin has talked about how Hadrian's wall is very much his inspiration for the wall. And

he uses similar language to describe hadrian's wall like how you know it predates anything he goes back and talks about his visit there and he describes it as it was a very profound feeling for the romans at the time this was the end of civilization it was the end of the world we know that there were scots beyond the hills but they didn't know that it could have been any kind of monster it was a sense of this barrier against dark forces and it planted something in me so i love that that's really smart he made it uh three times as long and 700 feet high and made it out of ice yes which he kind of regrets now i guess after seeing the hoover dam he was like i made the wall too big but you know fantasy. Who cares?

It's your book, George. Do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah. When John sees the wall up close, he realizes that Castle Black is no true castle because it can't be defended from any other direction other than from the northern side. So now I'm thinking about, again, that storm

chapter between John and Ygritte, which is like, is this a true castle? And those last lines, Jon tells her it is, and now I'm just all fucked up inside. Say something, I'm giving up on you. Just cradling her in his arms. And he's like, yeah.

The wall is so massive, it sometimes feels as though it isn't there. It sometimes feels as if it is everything. Somehow Jon knew that if it fell, the world went with it. It's the hinge of the world. Everything turns there. Yes. As John is admiring the wall, Tyrion Lannister sneaks up next to him

to have a conversation on what's on the other side. John laments that Tyrion will not be learning anything from John about that, and he also says of the other side, it's nothing special. The rangers say it's just woods and mountains and frozen lakes with lots of snow and ice. And again, we get some of that naivete from John and the ethnocentrism of the Westerosi, like the northerners and the brothers on the wall have been like dehumanizing the free folk for so

long. And that's why it's so difficult when you get to fucking dance, like that they've erased what's on the other side of the wall. But course again a large part of john's storyline is seeing their humanity and like about about there being nothing special on the other side like there's a reason we have this fucking wall and it's called ice demons right it's there for a reason think about the pact you know the pact i feel like the pact is something that we obviously don't know the exactitude of it right we don't know the details but it's probably simple, right in front of our noses and super important, right? The children of the forest for sure help build this wall with Bran the Builder, so.

Tyrion calls Jon then his new nickname, Lord Snow, and Jon says, don't call me that. And then we get like a reprisal of the end of the first chapter. Would you rather be called the Imp? Let them see that their words can cut you and you'll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, make it your own.

Then they can't hurt you with it anymore. We learn in this conversation that the Night's Watch is actually so understaffed that Jon can pretty much pick any cell that he wants. He picked the one in Hardin's Tower with the broken battlement. Once upon a time, the wall had 5,000 men. Now it only holds a tenth of that. Yes, I love this. This is great

laying of this ground to show us the foundation of the Night's Watch is flawed and with winter coming, there will be trouble. A real threat will be coming. Yes. Tyrion jokes about telling Ned to arrest the Stone Masons and the conversation turns to benjen john feels immense guilt at the thought he had of his uncle dying

he turns away from tyrian because he feels like he has a way of sensing things yeah and now we see that the reason benjen went out is because of course many rangers have been vanishing lately they were searching for way more royce uh maybe as far as the shadow tower in the mountains you know way more royce yeah the prologue and i really hope they don't find him because you know how he ended up which is the point all these rangers are gone missing and assumedly they found whatever found way more yeah oh yes horror there's very light horror throughout this chapter and and I love it. Ice demons on the other side of the wall.

Anyway, Tyrion jokes. How can you think there's nothing special if, like, people are disappearing? Anyways, Tyrion jokes once more about Grumpkins on the other side, and maybe they are hungry this year. And I am going to read too much into this about Grumpkins, because apparently, so Grumpkins, they grant wishes, and they steal and replace children and ned stark is kind of a grumpkin maybe he's trying to grant his sister's promise right of and i mean maybe he fails because of how much it's haunted him we don't know we don't know

what the promise was all right and so he's trying to fulfill that wish and maybe he's changed john from an egg into a john but also john does the same thing later on in his storyline kind of like his father quote-unquote father but also john kind of does the same thing as ned right and he's like stealing and replacing children like a grumpkin as he does when he switches monster and amen steel song i love that i love that idea it's that same symmetry that we get with the Bail the Bard story, but this is in a horror way, like I said, instead of romantic,

if that makes sense. It pulls like that Bruce and Ramsay idea where he takes him from his mother and it also contrasts Fake Agen's story from Varys and the switch for the Pisswater Prince. Yes, and it's sad because then you have again

like this this kid being placed in danger for the life of another. What is it? The life of one bastard boy against the kingdom. Right. As Tyrion and Jon finally sit down to eat, Alistair Thorne shows up and he's a butthead. Yeah.

Of course. He says the Lord Commander has a message for Jon and Jon's hesitant and worried that it's bad news about Benjen. The Lord Commander is not accustomed to waiting, was Sir Alistair's reply, and I'm not accustomed to having my commands questioned by bastards. Tyrion Lannister swung off the bench and rose. Stop it, Thorne. You're frightening the boy. Keep out of matters that don't concern you, Lannister. You have no place here. I have a place at court, though, the dwarf said, smiling. A word in the right ear and you'll die a sour old man before you get another boy to train. Now tell

Snow why the old bear needs to see him. Is there news of his uncle? No. Sir Alistair said, this is another matter entirely. A bird arrived this morning from Winterfell with a message that concerns his brother. He corrected himself. His half-brother. Fuck off, Alistair. Yeah, fuck off, Alistair. First of all, this is why

you end up having a hard time when you go down to King's Landing because even though it was actually super important because you were such a... Yeah, maybe you have a good attitude. Be professional. I don't know. Yeah. He was just such a dick to everyone that no one wants to fucking work with him. Anyway. But like

this exchange is interesting because it's not just Catelyn. Like everyone in Westeros, even at the wall where they're all like, yeah, who you are doesn't matter. You can rise it's not true all right because like the upper management are coming from the same fucking class system that Donald Noy just warned Jon about which like they continue to reinforce Jon's bastardy and place to him like Thorne is saying right now I don't answer to bastards and then like who's the lord commander of the night's watch it's fucking jr mormon okay like the lesson that donald noy gave him like it couldn't come from those other

characters it couldn't come from mormon it couldn't come from thorn it couldn't even come from benjen like donald noy is the only one who's able to give john this lesson because he was a smith and he comes from a lower station than any of these people who had land owning families and like donald noy had a good pay but he also was able to move within these different spaces he had to and like he interacted with different people he's a smith he has a trade for a living and he knows that these boys on the night's watch like he knows what they're like even before he joined and just because like the night's watch it keeps promoting people like waymar as we see jay or an ouster like that class system is so so much at play in that prologue and they think that john like is a part of this until it turns out he's not to the dismay of these folks like when

he gets elected like he's not reinforcing that class system later on right the night's watch is looked at as this last resort for most royals and nobles, right? But for a lot of these boys, it's all they had. In the North, it's honored to send one of your sons, your second sons, to the Watch. But that's it. No one else views it as honorable. They view it as like, well, this is the highest I can rise put into this shitty situation. Jeor Morma is the highest that you can put into this shitty situation jr morma is the

highest that you can get on the night's watch that's it so there's kind of a struggle for power from all these highborn people that previously held power and now they don't yeah and it's as you were saying earlier about john's privilege like if part of the way that you get that power and you rise is what how good good you are at fighting, how good you are at commanding, etc. These boys aren't trained in that. They don't have the skills necessary to be able to work past unless they work harder

than people like Alistair or J.R. Mormont. They weren't they don't have that same foundation to even rise as high as they do. No, they just have to wait for someone to die and hope they can take their place. Yeah, and even if they do, there's someone else there who was trained.

Yep, absolutely. That automatically gets the job. It's not fair. Yeah. So back to the letter that they receive about Bran. Tyrion automatically assumes the worst. He gives his condolences to Jon, who bolts off to learn what this news is about bran

yes he reads um because lord mormon is like i i know you can read all right so here's this and john reads that bran is awoken and mormon says he's crippled but john's like it doesn't fucking matter he's alive and that's what matters and in the background we have birds that are quirking first they're going court and then they repeat live in regards to like brand he's gonna live yeah guess what it's because it was blood raven it is i also kind of wonder is it like also about john also gonna live i don't know right whatever corn king corn yeah yeah he's so happy he runs down the halls back to the eating hall where he picks up Tyrion and spins him. He looks weird, everyone staring at him, including Gren, who now is wearing a bandage. Jon reflects on learning his lesson and goes up to Gren and apologizes about his wrist

and offers to teach Gren how to defend from it. I'm sorry about your wrist. Rob used to say move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells but yours must be worse look if you want i can show you how to defend that alicer thorn overheard him lord snow wants to take my place now he sneered i'd have an easier time teaching a wolf to juggle than you will training this aurochs i'll take that wager sir alicer john, I'd love to see Ghost Juggle. I love that line so much. It's so good.

There's an artist on Tumblr that does scenes from the books. I have to find them. And they actually have done this as a little drawing of Ghost Juggling. Oh my god, yes. And Sir Alistair and John and everyone standing around looking like nonplussed. Yes. I mean, like, good job, Sir Alistair. You did it. You taught Ghost how to us out of junk yes that's what

easier to do right i it's like you said it's just such a fun line like more sick comebacks from john because that's how you know that john's the protagonist right like he has sick comebacks it's like when the superheroes are making hilarious quips while fighting enemies yeah i love it i do love it tyrian is leading the laughter too like there's no everyone is laughing the whole room is laughing but as alliser thorn leaves he threatens john and he says that was a grievous error lord snow oh it's going down a mortal nemesis you have made lord snow that's how i read that in my mind i mean it is what he did i guess but it's just like oh my god alistair like we're all like john grow up but it's really like alistair thorne but it is

alistair thorne is a goddamn adult john snow is 14 yeah he is i mean and i get it like alistair again alistair thorne didn't want to be here but i'm'm also just like, like you said, like, why are you being like this? It's just silly. It's silly, petty shit, and it's like, you're a man of the night's watch, not a little schoolgirl. Come on, man. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. I guess that's it. That's our wrap.

That's John 2 and John 3. Holy crap, we've done three John chapters! We're really excited to have some guests on in the future. We are going to be inviting some people on to get through the long night of these Jon chapters. So look forward to that. I'm not going to tell you who, but I will tease you that he's a very magic man. And he'll be coming on for Jon 8 with us.

So get ready for whoever that is. Whomstever. Whomstever. And we also have other guests lined up. And we are sorting those out and we'll get to them. Yes. When we do. Yes.

And, you know, to find out and stay tuned for who those guests are, of course, be sure to follow us on social media. You can find us at Girls Gone Canon on Twitter. Or maybe, like, you have something fun to say. Shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Yeah, we've been really email light lately. Where are our emails? Our usuals haven't been emailing us.

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And if you haven't already, make sure to get your weekly Girls Gone Canon fix. We come out every Friday publicly on Podbean, on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, Acast. Anywhere you get your podcasts, you can check it out. And of course, we are on Patreon and all $5 and up patrons get special episodes like the Theon 1, Wynn's Chapter, and we are going to put one out this month around Game of Thrones, around the show, and of course

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As always, I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me as Liza Narver on the internet or at lizanarvergold.com. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana, a.k.a. Glass Table Girl. See you guys next time for John 4 and John 5.