Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 5 - Eddard VIII/IX

Episode Date: June 1, 2018

Eliana and Chloe embark on a journey through each character's POV in ASOIAF, starting with everyone's favorite honorable patriarch: Eddard Stark. Dishonorable threats against dragonspawn cause Ned Stark to abandon his post, but he is drawn back by the need for truth.  Later, Ned's mind strays to old memories, when a confrontation in the streets of King's Landing turns deadly for members of his party.   KingNemesis96 on Reddit has some great thoughts on Tower of Joy parallels in Ned Stark's plot.    intro by Anton Langhage.   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/   Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: https://liesandarbor.tumblr.com

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon. I am Chloe, one of your hosts. You can find me on the internet as at LizaNArbor on Twitter and LizaNArbor on Tumblr and also Drunk A Song of Ice and Fire History. Hello, I'm Eliana and I'm your other host. I'm Eliana and I'm your other host and you might know me as Glass Table Girl over on the Maester Monthly Podcast and the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. Welcome again in our journey together with Eddard Stark. Episode five. True. We only have four more weeks of Ned left. True. We only have four more weeks of Ned left. Oh shit. Yeah, only four more. Can you believe it? We need four more years with Ned. Four more years of Eddard. I don't think that's how it works because spoiler alert, he dies at the beginning, the end, the beginning end. Or does he warg

into a pigeon or into ice as some have also surmised we have a lot of people asking us still what our next point of view chapter will be we know you can barely stand it we have had a few people who have guessed it correct once person is sarah b aka Suki-san over on Twitter. I'm assuming that that's how you say it. I just like totally weavified this name, you know? She did guess the next POV though.

I mean, she did. Correctly. That's two people. Two people have guessed it correctly so far, but we're not giving it away yet. We will soon. Maybe episode seven. I guess we should start hyping it up by episode seven. True. True.

But yeah, we'll start hyping it up. Maybe we'll reveal it. We'll see. We'll see. Sarah told us that we're doing great. So thanks, Sarah. You're doing great. You're the best.

Thank you for listening. I always love interacting with Sarah. She also said, P.S. Eliana's Donald Noy voice is incredible. I love it. It might be my favorite so far. I personally was a fan of my Aemon voice, which was an outtake, but we're gonna get there eventually. No need to rush. Yeah, in like seven years, we're gonna get to Aemon targaryen's point of view wait a second uh after ned we're gonna have to do some pull on your voices like i'm still rooting for that first robert baratheon that was special it was the first time we and by we i mean i was like yeah

we're gonna really get into character i should be trying out for the for the next audiobook you know oh I've already voted for it on the internet yeah maybe that's why I like that first one so much you know I mean everyone loves their first oh yeah their first time and yeah I was also gonna say you know I like Roy Dotrice also have some I believe controversial pronunciations

of names yeah like Willa great and we I believe controversial pronunciations of names. Yeah, like Willa. I say Willa. Great. And we also got another email from Chris, who says, Y'all mentioned that folks thinking Cleganebowl was inevitable were likely barking at the wrong tree. Insert sad trombone here.

And I got to thinking. What is a tourney without a mystery knight? Where would the loyal hound, the replacement for Lady, not the dire wolf she wanted, but the one she needed, possibly show up? He never made it to the veil in the books, but could he make an appearance for his personal queen of love and beauty? My mind would have never gotten there without your podcast i love it please keep it up thanks chris and you chris you keep it up you're a gem that was a that was a gem of an email i saw that like what yesterday or the day before and i got so excited uh Chris is speaking my language. This is like my thing, you know?

For sure. Thanks for the email, Chris, really. I do love that the Quiet Isles and the Vale are so close together and I would love for Sansa Stark's dog, just like in Eddard 3, where Robert pretty much blesses her with protection through her stay in King's Landing. Enough, Ned. I will hear no more. A dire wolf is a savage beast.

Sooner or later, it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did on my son. Get her a dog. She'll be happier for it. I would love it if he could show up and protect her in the Vale because obviously, get a job, little finger. I don't personally think Sansa's plot

is going to have time in the Winds of Winter for Sandor to get there. In Elaine 1, in the Winds of Winter, if you haven't read that sample chapter yet, I highly recommend it. It shows Sansa coming into her own, regaining confidence in herself, learning how to flirt and manipulate men

with Harry the heir, and even having well I guess as positive female interactions as she can anything's better than Liza at this point we are already smack dab at the start of the tourney in that chapter I just don't foresee Sansa going home or preparing to go home to Winterfell until the very end of the Winds of Winter I think it'll be kind of at the climax of everything in this book because this, I mean, a dance with dragons where we left off and in Feast for Crows, it really left off at a big like that was set up and the winds of winter stuff has to go down. taking the throne or coming for it. Euron's chaos reaching its height, the wall possibly falling, the possible fall of Cersei, you name it. For Sandor to appear in her plot

in the Winds of Winter so early on during the tourney, I don't know how her plot could move from there easily, but it's a really cool idea. And I agree, there should be some kind of fun tourney thematics in the plot. A mystery night would be great to see, but I don't know that Sandor's arc is going to meet with Sansa quite yet in the story. To my dismay, of course, I would love it.

I do hope they get back together soon. She needs a good sworn shield and sword around her, in my opinion. Yeah, I think that'd be really great if they met up. And we do I, I don't know if it'll happen in the Vale. But but like there is that line in one of Sansa's chapters in the Vale where they talk about her chilling around with some like really sad old dog. I love it. She like pets his ear. You sad old hound. Yeah. And Lothar Brun.

Okay, so today Chloe and I were talking about like, we both stan Lothar Brun really hard. He's all the best parts of Jorah and, like, none of the bad parts. He's the best bear. Well, the best bear man, you know? Like, the Mormont women are, like, fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. We should just get rid of Jorah. I'm trying. rid of jorah i'm trying with that thank you again for everyone's feedback and emails and if you would like to shoot us an email you can at girls gone canon at gmail.com you can also shoot us a tweet uh on girls gone canon over on twitter a dm even if you want to slide in them dms down to discuss girls gone discussing so risque i know we're kind of getting edgy in this episode it's our fifth episode we're loose we're loose cannons we're loose girls gone cannon

all right so let's get firing off here's's our lightning round of what we have missed while doing, or what the chapters are, you know, before you get to Eddard. Absolutely. In between Eddard 7 and Eddard 8, we get Tyrion 4. Two can play at that game, thinks Tyrion, as he makes his move by offering a reward to whoever tells Tywin his son is a prisoner headed to the north. And after that, we get Arya 3, where Arya gets her first taste being no one, which leads to a chase through the bowels of King's Landing. While there, she hears a sinister conversation between two mysterious men. It's Varys and Illyrio. Alright, it's

Varys and Illyrio, you guys. That bodes ill for the hand of the king, Ned Stark. We do touch on some things in these chapters that are relevant to the POV that we're following. So for example, in this chapter, some things of note that you might want to keep in mind as we enter Ned's head is this in this discussion between Varies and Illyrio, Arya surmises that it might be about her father. It is. They say that the wolf and the lion will soon go to war. And then Illyrio says, if one hand can die, why not a second? And we see Ned a bit in this chapter when Arya relays the information. But alas, because she's a child and things got jumbled, but also because

it was also a very strange encounter, the words are lost on him. So, onward to Ned VIII. Over the death of children, the bounds between two brothers break. Ned storms out of a small council meeting for refusing Robert's request to send assassins after Daenerys Targaryen. As he begins making plans to leave, Petyr Baelish pops in to tempt him with a nugget of information. The whore is pregnant. Robert says this, and what he's referring to is Daenerys Targaryen's pregnancy, which is the topic of discussion at today's small council meeting.

And Ned begins this chapter with, I beg of you, hear what you are saying. You are talking of murdering a child. This is a huge break from the happiness Ned felt during Chapter 7, crashing down around him. We begin this chapter with Ned protecting Targaryen children. Robert wants Daenerys, her child, and Viserys dead, and all of the small council is pretending this is not happening and avoiding eye contact while they hash it out. Eddard Stark had seldom felt quite so alone. Then let it be on my head so long as it is done. I am not so blind that I cannot see the shadow of the axe when it is hanging over my own neck.

Which, foreshadowing much? Yeah, for like both of them. What I like about this line, about that shadow of the axe, is that there's a lot of things going on in this passage. That idea of an axe looming over a king feels very reminiscent of the story of the Sword of Damocles. Damocles slatters King Genesius and remarks upon the king's great fortune. The king agrees to switch with Damocles for a day. As Damocles sat upon the throne, Genesius had a sword suspended above, hanging by a thread of hair to show the fear

and danger that's felt by people who are occupying positions of power. And you actually see the story referenced a lot in a lot of different works. Chaucer, even to speeches by JFK. It's a fun insert into here, but we also know that while Robert lives in danger, he's misplacing it in this scene. So here he's talking about that shadow of the axe, and he's fearing it from this child across the narrow sea. But we know through Ned's chapters that the real enemies are not the Targaryens, not for Robert at least, it's the Lannisters who are all the people he keeps closest to him, the people he surrounds himself with. And finally, there's, you can see again, that irrationality and passion with which Robert fears the Targaryen children. And it positions

him again to be in many ways like that king he once stood up against, Ares. We brought this up in an earlier Ned chapter, but Robert's hate for the Targaryens was a madness in him, as Ned describes. And that's very much seen in this chapter. You see Robert fly off the handle once more. Ned is looking for any out that he can possibly manage to calm the king. What if it's a girl? What if she miscarries? What if the child dies in infancy? Dothraki won't cross the sea. Of course, the biggest dramatic irony here, as we know, is that Daenerys does miscarry, yet she will more than likely still be the one to unite the remaining Khals to cross the narrow sea to Westeros. And of course, again, they didn't plan for dragons.

Neither Ned nor Robert are alive now to deal with that. I shall fear the Dothraki the day they teach their horses to run on water. It's major foreshadowing that Daenerys will also be a force to be reckoned with in the future. Yeah, and I also think there's another sense of irony here going on where Robert, like, Dany was content to live among the Dothraki and was sort of coming to terms with the fact of the way her life was. On top of all that, Khal Drogo and his horde culturally are in many ways reluctant to cross the sea, maybe even scared. tried to send an assassin the Targaryens may have never felt so compelled to take vengeance on the Seven Kingdoms

and it would have never incensed Khal Drogo so much that the Dothraki would agree like yeah we should totally get on ships and invade Westeros that's one of my favorite speeches too in that chapter I will do this thing i will take this

great chair for my i will do the thing i will take the chair her family sat on it's such like a very cute like oh drogo you sweet you sweet in your murderous way in your murderous rapey way you kind of sweet yeah various tries to rationalize with ned it's a terrible thing we contemplate a vile thing yet we who presume to rule must do vile things for the good of the realm however much it pains us of course killing danny paves the way for various's plan with Illyrio to bring Aegon to power, which we hear shadows of in Arya 3 when she's exploring the Red Keep and chasing cats. The stage is more than set up for Aegon's entrance during Feast Dance by the time we get through the first three novels. The War of the Five Kings sputters to an end, Robb Stark is dead at a wedding feast, Renly ended by shadowbinding, Stannis seemingly a non-threat,

and Joffrey dead, and even Cersei bringing her own demise slowly upon herself. And of course, this is also very much indicative of Varys' own ethos when it comes to bringing over and accomplishing his plan of seating his Aegon on the throne, right? He's willing to, as we learn in that last chapter, or it's hinted at, that he's willing to use small young children and cut out their tongues for his purposes. He didn't want Ned dead, right? When he says if one hand can die, they're like, quote unquote, die. Because we find out later on that it's John Connington who is, quote unquote, dead. Such a good, like, double. Yeah. So good.

So good. It's just so deep. And I mean, off the line here. It's so interesting because it really truly was set up I mean even in 2000 there's a so spake Martin where he kind of hints that Aegon could have lived and yes that was after a game of thrones but you could see that he really was playing on a lot of these themes yeah absolutely absolutely it's it's just a it's a great because it's so obviously seems like it's john erin but anyway you learn a lot about the small council and the

way that they respond to the idea of killing denarius um and each of their worldviews through this conversation for example we learned from renly that the talk of killing Viserys and Daenerys isn't a new topic and how Jon Arryn was the one who talked Robert down from it in the past. Ned also talks about how mercy is never a mistake and about how Robert showed Barristan mercy and sent his own maester to tend Barristan's wounds on the field.

Mercy also plays a huge role thematically in Ned's daughter's plots, Arya's plot while traveling with Sandor Clegane and in Braavos, and also in Sansa's plot through song, which is something we will explore more in the future. The council is put to a vote, and all vote in favor of killing Daenerys, except Barristan and Ned. Pycelle plays kind of a devil's advocate during this. And I'm just kind of like, fuck you, Pycelle. He's all like, yet I ask you this, should war come again, how many soldiers will die? How many towns will burn? How many children will be ripped from their mothers to

perish on the end of a spear and like for a second his reasoning here sounds very reminiscent of tywin's question later on after the red wedding of whether it's better for men to die at dinner or in war and like is that supposed to show us a window into Pycelle's reasoning and how similar the two think, which would explain why Pycelle idolizes Tywin so much. As he's justifying killing a child here. But of course, Pycelle is the man who let in the Lannister army against the Targaryens in the first place during the Sack of King's Landing, whose decision ultimately led to the murder of the Targaryen children, baby Aegon and Rhaenys.

Little Finger quotes, When you find yourself in bed with an ugly woman, the best thing to do is close your eyes and get on with it, he declared. Waiting won't make the maid any prettier. Kiss her and be done with it. I'm like, is this little finger just talking about how he feels with Liza? Yes. I think the answer to that is yes. I love how Barristan is immediately like, a kiss?

What do you mean? What do you mean by that? What's a kiss like Barristan in Selmy? Yeah, a steel kiss. It's just, I don't know. It's so ridiculous. It's like, Littlefinger, is there something you want to, something you want to share with all of us? This, this actually doesn't work that well as a metaphor it's not it's not the first time that he referenced i mean he continues on to reference it it's not the only time little finger makes a remark like that later on obviously he makes a remark in the small council about how oh i think the veil will be fine trust me it's like little finger put it in your pants get a job yeah and he has the audacity to like complain about it after anyways it's like pizza little finger like you're still eating pizza okay he really doesn't have to be doing this like nobody asked you to kill john aaron and make Ned's life terrible. Anyways. After voting, then the council has to decide how the assassination ought to happen,

and Ned admonishes them, telling Robert that if he wants someone dead, do it yourself. Varys suggests using the Tears of Lys, which awakens Pycelle from his drowsiness, and Robert denounces it as a coward's weapon, which as we know, especially a coward who retreats into their castle in the clouds in the Eyrie. With Ned being like Robert, do it yourself, we learn a little more again about who Robert is. He refuses to actually rule his kingdom and is always talking about running away.

He's surrounded at this table only by all these flatterers who would tell him what he wants to hear which is that yeah it's totally okay to murder a child so it ends up that robert doesn't want to rule his kingdom and the only time that he's actually moving to use his power as a king and to take actual action is because he wants to kill a child. And also just going back to Littlefinger, like when Varys suggests the Tears of Lys, I just imagine Littlefinger doing this like happy dance on the inside and just laughing so hard on the inside because of all the people who brought up tears of lease it was varus which makes it seem like he's tied to john aaron's murder when he's not at all yeah little finger gets very

lucky i mean that entire murder if we even talk about that for a second that's they got so lucky he i mean it was set up perfectly i'm'm sure Littlefinger thought of that, because as we know, Littlefinger in the books is very calculated. He makes these steps and hopes for the right amount of chaos to ensue that he can play his game and win. So they got extremely lucky that all of the cards were on the table during this. He probably, like, leaves that meeting and, like, does, like, a fist bump and a little jump in the air or something. Ned refuses to approve Robert's request and ends up resigning his hand. Then once he has stormed out of Robert's threats of having his head on a spike, Ned begins gathering his household guard to return to Winterfell.

As Ned leaves the small council meeting though, he hears talk of faceless men being used for Daenerys' downfall. And this is actually the first mention of faceless men in the entire story, which we hear very little about them in general. We only learn about the faceless men directly in Ned's

chapters, the Clash of Kings prologue, a joke in a Tyrion chapter in Storm of Swords, and two of Arya's chapters in A Feast for Crows. And of course, I actually think it's a little fun because we get this mention of Faceless Men right after Arya's chapter where she first starts dipping her toes into the murkiness of identity. It's an interesting structure. Absolutely. George put those chapters in perfect placement next to each other. When Ned thinks of leaving, he begins to think of the work that's left undone. He summons Van Poole to the Tower of the Hand to arrange travel home, and he is deeply disturbed by Robert's hatred of Rhaegar even after all of these years. He begins wondering what will happen when Catelyn's imprisonment of Tyrion is discovered, and he decides it's safer if they get out of Dodge now, sooner than later. Then Veyon Poole leaves, and Ned begins to reflect on how nice it'll be to be back home at Winterfell.

Ned begins to reflect on how nice it'll be to be back home at Winterfell. And I also am thinking of like, yes, yes, Ned, go home to Winterfell. Go home and be with your family. Everything's going to be great. But the gods are never good. No, they're not. Soon he becomes angry with his own thoughts. And he thinks about all the things that he has left to do in King's Landing. Like, oh no, the kingdom is in crisis and robert's reign has bled the realm dry of coin and it's being handed

over to the lannisters and of course like who's gonna solve the murder of my other dad john aaron he considers taking a ship back to winterfell instead of the king's road so he can stop at dragonstone and seek the truth from lord stannis but he begins to think of the secret though and when you have it what then some secrets are safer kept hidden some secrets are too dangerous to share even with those you love and trust. And I feel that, as with many times when Ned thinks about secrets throughout all of his POV, this refers to Jon Snow and the relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna, especially as just a moment earlier, Ned is shaken by the anger that he sees Robert still harbors for Rhaegar. We also hear an echo of this in the next chapter that we will kind of touch on in Even With Those You Love and Trust, which he has hidden Jon Snow and Jon Snow's real parentage, even from Catelyn,

whom later on we hear something that kind of points us to Ned trusts Catelyn and trusts her gut and judgment and will stand by her no matter what. So again, another nod. And especially when we get into Catelyn, eventually we'll talk about it, but Catelyn was left to be in her thoughts about the parentage of Jon Snow, of whoever the mother could have been, and it helped kind of rot her insides. As Ned thinks about some of these secrets more, he begins to wonder if the truth about Jon Arryn is something that he might not actually want to know. As he holds the assassin's dagger, he's wondering if it's connected to John Aaron's death he begins questioning whether Robert might have been part of it going back to that idea as he thinks of when

Catelyn warned him that the king is a stranger to him and he sees that in full force in this chapter Ned summons Veyon Poole and he tells them that we need a fast ship and a good captain but we need to do this very quietly and quickly because he needs to get out right now right meow and so as ned's like getting ready to leave king's landing tomard announces that little finger is here and has arrived at his solar. And Ned's tempted to tell him to get the hell out. And yes, Ned, do it. Do it.

Don't talk to him. But then he decides to let Littlefinger in and allow this entrance, which is foolish. is foolish. Ned and Littlefinger begin to discuss how Littlefinger convinced the small council to offer lordship to any man who kills the Targaryen girl instead of faceless men, which of course does not fly with Ned. He criticizes giving titles to assassins. As we know, Ned is very honorable. He hated when he learned that Jorah Mormont was informing on Daenerys because that is dishonorable on a bajillion levels, let alone Jorah Mormont being the worst. Littlefinger says that he did better for Daenerys than Ned did. A faceless man would actually finish the job where an assassin is more likely to just mess it all up and cause Dany to be guarded by the Dothraki. Ned is just incredulous at this moment. He can't believe how ridiculous and cocky Littlefinger is. He's like, this motherfucker. Littlefinger supported the kill, but then claims he was defending Daenerys. And he calls Ned an enormous fool who rules like a man dancing on rotten ice. And as we know, Littlefinger is not wrong.

Finger is not wrong. Yeah, he's not wrong. The assassination fails. So, there's that. But also, you know, as they were talking about regarding Jorah Mormont, just reminding everyone, Lothar Brun. Lothar Brun, you guys. If you want- Choose the right bear.

Yeah, choose the right bear. The chapter ends, though, with with little finger saying that if ned stays and he doesn't leave that city tonight he can take him to that brothel that they've been searching for this whole time that stannis and john aaron had visited before as we enter the ninth of ned's 15 chapters this is truly the beginning of the end. Ned choosing to meet with Littlefinger highlights that. He chooses to learn the truth, but the truth ultimately causes his demise. I also just feel so annoyed because, like, Ned's thinking about how it's going to be so good when he goes home.

It's just so annoying because Littlefinger knows that Ned is about to leave. And he's like, oh, no no I can't have Ned leave yet so he lures him back in with like oh I found the brothel like bitch you knew where the brothel was the whole time don't fucking play this game you knew where the brothel was

and he knows the secret that Jon Arryn died for and I'm just like rage it is awful and he does it on purpose I know if Ned left and he stopped at Stannis on the way, if he had gotten that ship, he could have found the truth and the North and Stannis could have become a faction right then to take it all down.

Yeah. But nope. He's just here throwing breadcrumbs that aren't even, like, the right thing. Anyway. So, onward.ward wow that was a chapter it's a lot though there's a lot that happens in that chapter but yeah it's not as exciting as what's to come i'm we're really excited for this next chapter i'm really this is ned nine is This is, Ned 9 is probably, between Ned 9 and Ned 10, those are two of my favorite Ned chapters of the 15.

God, and Ned 15. God, I love all of them. But those three are probably my favorite Ned chapters of all of his chapters. But first, a Catelyn chapter. Yes, what we missed, our lightning round. We only have one chapter to give you a quick discussion on, and that is Catelyn VI. Catelyn's party arrives to the Bloody Gate with her prisoner. At her sister, Liza Tully, Aaron's call, she makes the dangerous journey up the mountains to meet with Liza and her fragile son, Lord of the Vale Robert Aaron, with the help of Robert Baratheon's bastard daughter, Maya. And that brings us now to Ned 9. Woo! I'm really excited. Ned's journey for the truth

leads him to a brothel that his foster father, John Aaron, inspected, along with Stannis Baratheon, who is obviously notorious for visiting brothels. He meets with a sex worker that has a daughter with the Baratheon look. As he battles thoughts of past ghosts, Ned is ambushed by Jaime Lannister and twenty of his good men. Jaime takes his own retribution against Ned for the abduction of his brother Tyrion at the hands of Catelyn Stark and kills Ned's escort. With his leg crumpled and broken beneath him from the fight, Ned loses consciousness. Ned 9 begins in a similar manner that we have seen George write Ned's chapters. The beginning events of the chapter have already happened and we are thrown right into the middle as Ned recalls what occurred in his mind.

Ned finds Littlefinger flaunting his charisma in the common room with Jataya, a black-skinned and elegant woman. And this reminds me of Littlefinger's charming magnetic nature. He is a man with a mask who knows how to play the game and he is just standing there, joking, being very

jovial with Jataya yeah I think that it's a it's an especially important reminder even though we're like hating on Littlefinger for obvious reasons throughout this read-through so as we've discussed before like George RR Martin has talked about the character he feels is most changed from book to show and that's Littlefinger because in the show it's very obvious that Littlefinger is manipulating people and is playing his games whereas in the books George says that everyone trusts Littlefinger that's why Littlefinger is able to get away with so much people see him as being very meek and trustworthy. He's like everyone's friend and he's there to help you. We see that at play here as he charms Chitaia.

Ned's men are having a good time in the brothel. Huard is playing a game with a worker, gambling his clothes away. I'm guessing it's like a strip poker-esque game, while Jory watches from the window, amusedly. Ned learns what he needs, and he tells his men that he's ready to go. Jory brings the horses around, and Littlefinger makes clever japes about the king's hand filling in for other parts of the king. But Ned is not in the mood for any of these jess and he reminds little finger

that actually i'm not the hand of the king anymore and as they mount their horses getting ready to leave it begins to pour rain it beat down on ned's, warm as blood and relentless as old guilt. And then Ned begins to think of Lyanna. Robert will never keep to one bed, Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young lord of Storm's End. I hear he's gotten a child on some girl in the Vale. Ned had held the babe in his arms. He could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's So a quick aside here, just because it was in the previous chapter,

when we're talking about the child that Robert has gotten on some girl in the Vale, if you're doing a linear reread as opposed to a POV reread, and you just came out of that Catlin chapter, I just think this is some really great structuring from George R. R. Martin because we've just met Maya a few pages ago a couple other things uh I know Eliana said that she was gonna let me do my thing this is uh me stretching over uh during this chapter Liana was promised to Robert when she was 13 years old. So remember that Liana died at the age of 16 in her bed of blood. She was a woman child of surpassing loveliness, as Ned has thought before.

And this entire chapter is actually one of the biggest R plus L equals J drops that we get in the book. Ned begins to think of Lyanna and Robert and how he promised Lyanna Robert was a good man. And immediately after, we begin to experience Ned's overwhelming guilt as he rides, thoughts of the brothel racing in his head. Not only does Ned spend this chapter recounting old traumas and wounds, he begins to realize the clues as they mount up to the reveal that Cersei's children are not Robert's. While us, as the reader, begin to see the clues mounting up to our very own seed as strong, with Rhaegar and Lyanna being the parents of Jon Snow.

The young brothel worker makes Ned promise to tell Robert she still loves him and is waiting for him. Tell him that when you see him, my lord, as it as it please you. Tell him how beautiful she is. I will. Ned had promised her that was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall. But Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he'd made Lyanna as she lay dying and the price he'd paid to keep them. She had smiled then, a smile so tremulous and sweet that it cut the heart right out of him. Riding through the rainy night, Ned saw Jon Snow's face in front of him, so like a

younger version of his own. If the gods frowned so on bastards, he thought dully, why did they fill men with such lusts? That chapter almost directly correlates with Ned's very first chapter when he thinks on Liana's death. The language is very similar. Promise me, Ned, the fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper. But when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then. How tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life the rose petals spilling from her palm dead in black after that he remembered

nothing yeah it's so clear in in this chapter why he's thinking of john Snow and like this whole idea of again coming up this whole idea of seeing this child this baby Barra um a royal bastard would of course remind him of Jon Snow another royal bastard and it's all just like hitting Ned over the head. But along with that, we also see like, Ned talks about how young Barra's mother is. The girl had been so young, Ned had not dared to ask her age. No doubt she'd been a virgin. And along with that, as well as how Barra's pleading for Robert to visit the new daughter, and how she looks so much like him, and everyone's just so young and innocent and has done nothing wrong, I feel like there's a thread between this and the previous Ned chapter.

Barra's mother is this picture of innocence, and shows this this begging Robert to show some mercy towards this young mother and just visit her also highlights how truly Daenerys is still just a child who at this point is like very much an innocent and we see that this is the sort of person that Robert is directing his anger against and sort of the hypocrisy behind those actions. It's a lot also that is untold in Ned's thoughts considering if Robert knew that Lyanna was the mother of Jon Snow and Rhaegar was the father, he would want to kill all of them too. It's a very, very poignant look into the psyche with Robert and into what Ned is truly hiding. I find it interesting that George R.R. Martin has named the child, whose name is Barra, but has not named the mother.

And it's interesting that George has given so much thought to this child. Well, not much, obviously. It's just a little bit. But yet we still don't get the name of this mother who had to bear this child and bear the king's bastard and the mark of it. It is something that I think is a weak spot of Martin's. Sometimes he just sort of overlooks, for some reason, naming mothers, even though he puts so much effort and time and thought and detail into other parts of his story. Like, what's the name of...

What was it? Was it Doran Martell's mother? Like, what is the name of Elia and Oberyn and Dorne's mother? The Dornish princess? Yeah, the princess of Dorne. And then for a long time, we're like, what is the name of Ned's mother? And we, I believe, got that answer in the world of Ice and Fire, and it's, like, Liara.

But he did release that Stark family tree. That came way too late. and in an interview when he was asked who she was he says some woman yeah most of them are sure but also just like i don't know we can we can put the effort into naming some of these people if you're gonna name if you're gonna name like fucking tomard you know tomard and heward and yeah yeah i mean you give hyl hunt actual lines like i know right just name this poor girl anyways little finger then tells us a little more backstory about some of robert's bastards um such as who is edric storm and how he was fathered in stannis's wedding bed before he even had a chance to use it um and is the son of one of lady salisa's nieces or bedmaids which i find it interesting again that that niece is never named

but from looking at the Florent tree I would guess that it's Sir Imri or Sir Aaron's daughter sure I mean those are her brothers so I would guess that and then of course Stannis thinks that this bastard is a blight on the honor of his wife's house, House Florin, so when Edric is born, he ends up shipping him off to Renly, and Robert actually acknowledges Edric. acknowledges Edric. I find this really interesting because having Renly take a

Florent Baratheon bastard as a ward leads to Renly furthering his Reach connections, as we see in the future, which we know he comes to utilize against Stannis, although Stannis is the one who married into the Reach. Yeah, do you think

random question, do you think that had Stannis kept Edric Storm around, he would have been better off? Or do you think it's really just that Renly was better at building those political alliances? had kept Edric, it could have fostered a little more loyalty with the Reach Lords. But at the same time, I think it also shows the contrast that Renly knew how to use those connections and knew how to walk the walk and talk the talk and garner loyalty from them, where Stannis did not want Edric around. He didn't want that reminder of that dishonor on his house. Littlefinger also whispers to Eddard of some other whispers that he's heard of twins that Robert Baratheon got on a serving woman in Casterly Rock during a tourney that Tywin held. But Cersei had the twins killed and sold the mother to a passing slaver. And Ned wonders if Robert had become just so practiced at shutting his eyes to these sorts of atrocities and let it happen. And if, yeah, now this is the kind of man who's willing to let innocent blood be shed.

Which, that is a total loaded thought. Robert allowing Cersei and others to commit heinous crimes to babies, making him possibly complicit slash evil, starts with these twins, and what's unsaid speaks volumes. It floats in Ned's brain from Bran in the Tower to Jon Arryn to Daenerys, and Ned rests his mind on the fate of Jon Snow. It also does a lot to characterize Cersei Lannister. For sure. Cersei killing Robert's twins gives us some insight into her really vindictive nature,

and it also shows us what her inheritance actually was from her father. Like Tywin, Cersei has no scruples going after someone's mistress, and she loses no sleep over ordering the death of children. It also paves the way for some of her later actions that we'll see when, after Robert dies, Cersei goes after as many of Robert's bastards as she can and has them killed. On the one hand hand it could be revenge uh but she also knows that their existence threatens her own children's claim to the throne i do have kind of wonder though just sort of a playful idea of like if there's something to be read into here probably not but like circe is going after some twins from casserly Rock. And maybe it speaks to something

about how Cersei's actions will ultimately lead to their downfall. Ooh, I do like that. Ned asks Littlefinger why Jon Arryn would take interest in Robert's bastards. Now I see. Lord Arryn learned that his grace

had filled the bellies of some whores and fishwives, and for that he had to be silenced. Small wonder. Allow a man like that to live, and next he's like to blurt out that the sun rises in the east. Something that Eliana pointed out in previous episodes is that Littlefinger

does a whole shtick of japing but actually being serious for sure it's just little finger being a butt again he's like hashtag sorry not sorry hashtag jokey not joking and he totally knows what john aaron died for as we've said earlier and it's not what anyone thinks it is and it's just super annoying he's like oh this is what john aaron died for it's like so do you know dude like if you're making these jokes like why won't you just i don't know why won't you just tell anyways what's the truth little finger what's the truth ned continues on his journey to leave the brothel and is writing and thinks there was no answer ned

start could give to that but a frown for the first time in years he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen he wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels somehow he thought not while Rhaegar is still a piece of crap no matter how George justifies him running off with Ly, even if Elia Martel herself wrote a page or two long deeds stating, it's totally cool, I don't mind him going off with this girl, I'm actually really happy about it.

And he still did leave his children and his legal wife and King's Lanny to be slaughtered like lambs. This line is there to tell us that Rhaegar wasn't the sort of man to go out banging babes all day long. He was no Robert Baratheon, which does jump back to what Eliana mentioned of,

is this, was this the better king? Was this, did we do the wrong thing? Yeah, it's not in like in this chapter where Ned's thinking about that, but also like last chapter, Ned thinks of Rhaegar. It's just like, did we make a mistake and you you suddenly see him comparing you know obviously he's comparing reygar and robert in terms of being suitors in a way for liana but like you said comparing now thinking about how they would be as rulers.

It's like Ned is questioning the entire rebellion through these chapters. Oh yeah. What did we fight for? What are we standing for? This is what we did. This is what we fought to put you on this throne of blood and lies. Yeah, and while Rhaegar might have done all of those things, I'm sure to some extent Ned wonders, but Rhaegar might not have been the kind of man who would approve the murder of children, which is what Robert did at the end of the Baratheon of Rhaegar's children and what he's doing again here. Which of course leads to Ned dissociating real hard in the

hard rain, and Jory calls out that suddenly they are surrounded. Jaime Lannister and his men unfold. They're blocking the street. They are decked out in ring mail. They got these gauntlets. They got greaves. What is a greave?

Steel helms with golden lions, long swords, and iron-tipped spears. And they did not come here to make friends. The wolves are howling. Such a small pack, though. Jamie Lannister heads up this crew, and Littlefinger feigns the loyal fool to ned

what is the meaning of this this is the hand of the king so jamie strides forward in his golden breastplate and begins an exchange with littlefinger jamie claims that he's looking for his brother which we know means that he's confronting Ned for Catelyn kidnapping him, which Ned was ready for it to come up. He just wasn't, he was just really hoping it wasn't going to happen like this. And Ned immediately claims that Tyrion was taken at Ned's command, not Catelyn's, to answer for his crimes. This is Ned going out on a limb for Catlin, just like we said a bit earlier about him with his secrets and how he could not tell anyone his secrets, even those he loved and trusted. He already has made Catlin deal with so much bullshit than she's deserved,

and he didn't want her to deal with more and he immediately took command of that situation and said in support no it was my call she did what I wanted her to do Jamie Lannister in this chapter is opinion hour here the ultimate Disney villain in this scene like to the damn extreme it is just like spine tingling disgusting like oh god gross gross it it's also just like you can see that the way george rode him you you can see he's like trying to make him like oh jamie's scary cool bad boy as he's all like jamie slid his golden sword into his sheath he pushed his wet hair back with his fingers and wheeled his horse around. And he's really hammering it home here,

especially because this is probably the time when George was probably writing closer to that 1993 outline and letter where originally Jamie was the one who was going to seek that power and end up on the iron throne and really be in line with that idea of again that villain uh who who's willing to forsake his vows and kill his king we also see a lot of that all that glitters is not gold type of imagery here without it even glittering i mean you have the golden lions and the breastplates uh's interesting because like Eliana, like you just said, you could see that outline originally and you can see underdeveloped how Jaime looks from the outside compared to when we finally get his point of view in Storm of Swords. Yeah, I definitely like the direction that he went with Jaime much better. I love that he fleshed him out.

Yeah. We also see in this scene all those things that Varys and Illyrio had said beneath King's Landing. Blossoming. The wolf and the lion are about to clash. They are clashing right now. It is happening right now, right here. Show me your steel, Lord Eddard. They are clashing right now. It is happening right now, right here. Show me your steel, Lord Eddard. I'll butcher you like Ares if I must, but I'd sooner you die with a blade in your hand.

He gave Littlefinger a cool, contemptuous glance. Ugh. Lord Baelish, I'd leave here in some haste if I did not care to get bloodstains on my costly clothing. Littlefinger did not need to be urged. I will bring the city watch, he promised Ned. Which, of course, is not the last time that Littlefinger under delivers. Once more, Ned is stuck in a scenario that brings memories of the past to mind. They were three against twenty, fighting against a Kingsguard member. In a post on Reddit by KingNemesis96, which I will link below in the cast, we see the entire fight between Jaime and Ned and their men parallels the Tower of Joy. One of the men who stood with Ned against the Kingsguard was Martin Castle, Jory's father,

but also when we look at the numbers and the death toll, Ned's party at the Tower of Joy were seven men up against the Three Kingsguard. Here, the numbers end up reversed, where Jaime of the Kingsguard slays three of Ned's men while they slew five of Jaime's. Yeah, it's a very subtle and beautiful parallel, but we see so many things in this chapter start bringing a lot of these same sort of images and ideas to the forefront of the story. Ned also warns Jaime, it's a smart move, he warns Jaime that if Jaime kills him, Catelyn will kill Tyrion. To which Jaime remarks, the noble Catelyn Tully of Riverrun murder a hostage? I think... not. Of course, an exact situation we get to see

in the next books with Jaime and Catelyn is exactly Catelyn Tully not murdering a hostage because Jaime does end up correct in that situation. But I also kind of wonder, does Jamie have no imagination? Because Catelyn does end up in another situation where she ends up taking the life of her hostage at the Red Wedding. Catelyn executes Jingle Bell in retaliation for the death of her own son. She's absolutely willing to go tit for tat.

Don't try and test her. Tit for cat? Oh, kit for cat. Yeah. Give me a break. Give me a break. Oh my god. I do think, though, it's also kind of a glimpse at Catelyn's character's development in that,

that she was pushed to the very end. When she kills Jinglebell, she's lost everything. She lost Rob. She thought she lost all of her children, you know, all our babes. And she just slices it open. So when there's nothing left to lose, Catelyn, of course, would not. Jamie says he's not willing to risk his brother's life on a woman's honor and allows Ned to run back to Robert, which that line kind of gives me some Shay vibes there. Not willing to risk his brother's life on a woman's honor when Jamie frees Tyrion. It also reminds me of how Catelyn, again, does this exact same thing with Jamie. thing with Jamie going back to Jamie being her hostage she stakes the life of her daughters the freedom of her daughters on Jamie's honor but she also says that she's very much more betting on

Tyrion's honor to ensure that they uphold that deal. Littlefinger informs his captain, not sorry, Jamie informs his captain to see that no harm comes to Ned Stark. Still, we wouldn't want him to leave here entirely unchastened, so through the night and the rain, he glints the white of Jamie's smile. Kill his men. of Jamie's smile. Kill his men. Ned is forced to watch his men die around him once more as Jamie Lannister rides off. Jory, Weil, Heward. Ned's horse falls and his leg is crumpled beneath him. He sees his bone poking out of his calf and then he blacks out. his calf and then he blacks out there's something really beautiful going here with going on here with the setting and the imagery earlier in the chapter we're reminded that earlier in the chapter we're told that there's a warm rain coming down on this night and as ned lies there with his dead men, the rain came down and down and down. A few lines later, the rain had darkened the pale pink stone of the massive walls to the color of blood.

So along with that idea of that warm rain, I wonder if there's something here that inspired George when it came to those later books. We don't hear about the reigns of Castamere, either the song or the family, until book three. But I wonder if maybe George drew on this scene a little bit. That reign bodes very ill for Ned. Of course, it makes a super dramatic scene. If you've ever watched one of, was it Step Up? Step Up to the Streets? I don't know where they have that dance battle in the rain. Fantastic, fantastic scene right? You can just imagine what an actual battle, not just a dance battle, looks like in the rain. And there's that imagery again of Jaime's wet hair. And then

the rain is turning that stone, that pink stone blood to the color of blood. It's red, which is the color of the Lannisters. And the rain falls upon Ned and his men. And the rain here, in many ways, are those Lannister soldiers. Ned's men fall to the Lannister soldiers. So I wonder if there's something playful there, of that these are those rains of Castamere that the Lannisters are so well known for. Which is a lot like in Catelyn's chapters in Storm of Swords before the Red Wedding,

when it's dreary and drizzling their entire trip to and through the Twins. When he comes to, Eddard Stark was alone with his dead. Littlefinger and the City Watch found him there in the street, cradling Jory Cassell's body in his arms. Fuck you, Jamie Lannister. That's what I have to say about this. later goes and finds a litter um but i i want to linger on this line a little bit of little finger in the city watch and how they found him there in the street cradling joy cassell's body in his arms and the way that this line is written we've talked already in this chapter about how ned is reminded of different royal bastards. He, throughout this fight with the numbers, maybe is reminded of the fight of the Tower of Joy,

but here the language definitely strikes that connection. From Eddard I, after that, he remembered nothing. They found him still holding her body, silent with grief. That's Ned Ned holding Liana and it's this idea of people finding him there like just mourning and holding his loved ones and it happens both of these times so that you can see you can really see that connection drawn between these two instances. And finally, the chapter closes with Grand Maester Pycelle offering him milk of the poppy, whispering for him to drink. And the last thing he remembers before boiling wine is poured on his leg.

Cradling Jory's body, along with the number of men dead in the skirmish and being reminded of the royal bastards does actually set the stage perfectly for Ned's subconscious demons to rise as a fever dream in the next chapter which Grand Maester Pycelle orchestrates part of that through the milk of the poppy man I do not want to have like Grand Maester Pyce surprise sells the last person i want to see in a trip you know oh yeah it's a bad trip no it's definitely a bad trip but speaking of bad trips so next chapter is ned's fever dream it's happening it's lit and then he goes and he talks to robert about like this really great political situation everything's going swimmingly in the realm and somehow ned ends up as hand again what a roller

coaster i know it's like his life is so dramatic you just hear taylor swift in the background like on and off we are never, ever getting back together. Between him and Robert. I also, wait, I think I would maybe think of their relationship as her song, Style. Oh, yeah. They never go out of style. Like, it's not good, you know, for either. Anyways.

like it's it's not good you know for anyways um in eddard 11 after eddard 10 with the abduction of tyrian ned finds himself with a political hodgepodge to deal with the embers of war lick the realm and the hand must decide who to send on behalf of the crown to set the riverlands right again god i love that chapter i keep saying like eddard 10 and eddard 9 are my favorites but now i'm like oh but eddard 11 is the start of a whole faction after it's all over i mean they all break away and the brotherhood begins and that's what keeps going for true vengeance and then cat joins oh god these books are so have you read these books have you no i don't i don't read books i don't know how to read that yeah we don't read you know that uh that meme the what up i'm jared i'm 19 and i never learned how to read

that meme what no i don't know oh bro i gotta send it to you there's this meme okay it's a it was a vine and it's uh what up i'm jared i'm 19 yeah i think i might have seen it. Yeah. Yeah. That's basically Davos. Aww. What up? I'm Davos and I never learned how to read. Davos. I love Davos. Wow. We're going to get to him someday in the next 20 million years too. Yeah. It's really killing me that we haven't told them yet, but they're going to have to wait. We have four more edited episodes and that's it for Ned Stark stark that is it i'm gonna miss him i every time i start a reread of these books again and then i'm like oh it's

ned and then i'm like reading through and i'm like oh i miss ned and then he dies and you're like oh bye yeah bye daddy then you like there's that and then you just like sort of get used to the world again being without ned and then you started all over then you, like, there's that, and then you just, like, sort of get used to the world again, being without Ned, and then you start it all over again. And you're like, oh, but look, here I am with my friend Ned again. I don't know. It's all a rollercoaster, just like Ned's chapters. We were talking earlier off recording about how these Ned chapters, it's kind of been like one of the two is always a little more subtle and a little more building because every chapter is just up and down. But as we enter these last

handful of chapters, as we barrel towards Eddard 15, toward the bitter end, we kind of, it's a, it's nonstop now. I mean, after this, it's just go, go, go, and everything happens so these next chapters are gonna be lit yeah we reach the climax of his story and then from there it's just a sprint towards the the end absolutely so good gosh anyway thank you everyone thank you for your patience and for waiting for us to put this episode out. We really appreciate it. And we appreciate the support that you all sent us while we took our time to make sure that we could put together this episode for you. Absolutely. I had to move this week. So I am very, very appreciative of you guys waiting so long

until Friday. I know it's killing you you. We've had a couple people saying, oh, we need it. Where is it? Warren Dudson, one of our buddies who listens, he is always listening, always giving some great commentary after the episodes, and he was missing his craving. He posted yesterday in a group and was like, does anyone know what's happening with Girls Gone Canon? We're still here, I promise. We're not going anywhere, buddy. And, of course, if you look on the bright side, now there's less of a wait between this episode and the next one. Absolutely. The next

episode will be on time on Wednesday next week, so make sure to tune in to the same bat place at the same bat time. And thank you again for joining us this this week uh i've been eliana also known as glass table girl on the maester monthly podcast and the song of ice and fire subreddit you can find me at arithmetric over on twitter and i've been chloe you can find me, of course, on the internet as at LiesInArbor on Twitter

and also LiesInArbor.tumblr.com where I write meta-analysis and goof off. You can also check out Drunk Song of Ice and Fire History at Drunk Ace Woff on Twitter and on Podbean. And be sure to check us out. Subscribe to us on iTunes, uh and google play podbean you can send us an email at girls gone canon at gmail.com and feel free to tweet at us with us about us uh dm us at girls gone canon on twitter and i think that's a wrap you guys thanks for listening be sure to listen in again next week when we cover eddard 10 and 11.