Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 53 - Jon ACOK II/III

Episode Date: June 7, 2019

The girls are back in black - and so is Jon Snow! We take a trip to Craster's keep, and Jon finds his Stark roots pulling at him once more.   Intro by Anton Langhage   ---   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com    

Hello and welcome to episode 53 of Girls Gone Canon. John 2 and John 3 in A Clash of Kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from the internet as LizaNArbor on Twitter, Tumblr, and at LizaNArborGold.com. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana, and you might know me as GlassTableGirl on the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit or on the Maester Monthly podcast. Maybe you know me as Arithmetric over on Twitter. Welcome. You know, along with getting back to the good old...

I don't know, I was looking for some... My whole goal was we were going to start this episode and then just crank back in black from ACDC, right? Like, brown. Burn out, burn out. Someone did brown. Burn out. Burn out. Someone did that. Burn out. Burn out. John's back in Black!

Did you see that someone did that? Lauren, aka Shakespeare of Thrones, was like, how come someone didn't do Back in Black for the end of John's storyline in the Game of Thrones television show, and then someone made it happen for her

or they superimposed it well let's also be real that like it's all been thought of nothing's original anymore there's millions of us that's true but it exists I'll find the link we'll put it in there for this episode

yeah we're back in black we uh we've got really fun stuff this summer coming up i know we're back to the basics with our john snow chapters in a clash of kings but we wanted to kind of spice it up a little bit so we are going to be starting a new series a new book series soon we're going to be covering it it series. A new book series. Soon we're going to be covering it. It won't be as regular as our Song of Ice and Fire episodes.

That will be coming in July. We plan on fully announcing it in the next week. So stay tuned for that after this episode. Probably in episode 54. Yes. We're going to drop that news very soon as we iron out

what the format's going to be, how we're gonna do this. But we are very excited to do this. I mean, like, we are all looking for what else will fill the hole of our lives with Game of Thrones being done. I mean, I still have the book, so

I'm fine. I'm over here cradling my copy of like a feast for crows and every night how do you think i sleep you know some people use pillows between their like knees to keep their legs upright when they sleep oh that's me with my books all five of ice and fire books your thighs must be so strong and so even so we also got some emails and tweets of note as we start coming back into these John

chapters so from Lady Mari of House Rickman we get hi there first of all I love your podcast thank you I feel like I'm getting a college literary analysis course in my ears every day soon to be every week since i'm almost caught up and yes soon to be every week because we are coming back to doing these weekly and regularly your thoughts on craven sam actually being the

bravest reminded me of the self-proclaimed cowardly lion in the wizard of oz a hundred years ago when i read bedtime stories to my now college ageaged children. Aw, I read that book to them and thought it was so great that the cowardly lion was the bravest, the scarecrow was the smartest, and the tin man was the most empathetic. If you have small children to read to, The Wizard of Oz has some great parallels for Song of Ice and Fire characters. Looking forward to more John, Lady Mary of House Rickman, who in fact also sent Pearl's Gun Cannon an incredible Arya doodle a while ago.

Speaking of, like, great things. Yeah, and it's not just Arya. It's Arya and Lil Pigeon. It is Arya and Lil Pigeon. Oh my gosh. God, I love that

art. I do. No, it's a great doodle. We'll have to post it up if Lady Mary is okay with that. We'll send her a message and find out because it is the best art. Is this Girls' Con canon fan art now? I think so. Oh my god.

Is that our next step? Who needs iTunes reviews? Send us fan art. That would actually bring me way more joy than draw chloe as a bird reviews no not no itunes reviews also bring us a great joy at a month's both except for when they don't and bring us great um sadness and frustration but they also help people know that we exist in theory. But I kind of like the fan art for it. But Lil Pigeon fan art! And, of course, again, Drafter G, who is also a fantastic artist, released their print shop. And they have a strong Bell Lost print up that was inspired, allegedly, by us.

So it's really good. And i have mine on the way so oh good i actually just became a patron of naomi makes her she's also really great yeah yeah i love her work that literally today i got home from work and there was a notification on her page and there was a sketch of a character that i love very much that many people do not draw or do not talk about or care about except for just me in this world so I can't obviously you should sign up for Patreon if you want to know but she has purple eyes I digress I love that Lady Mary of House Rickman brought up Sam as kind of the cowardly lion in Wizard of Oz, and there's this one line I love in the wonderful Wizard of Oz.

You have plenty of courage, I am sure, answered Oz. All you need is confidence in yourself. There is no living thing that is not afraid when it faces danger. The true courage is in facing danger when you are afraid, and that kind of courage you have in plenty.

Yes. I thought that was a really nice passage. I think it really, it highlights a lot about Sam and John's journey throughout the A Song of Ice and Fire story. They both have to face these very different times of bravery, but both of their braveries are not like neither of them are small they're both very big braveries yeah and i think that there's a lot of in this line that you've chosen that echoes exactly what ned is always telling his children right the true courage isn't facing danger when you are afraid and it kind of really drives home how much of the beginning chapters of a song of ice and fire especially with all these young characters, is a coming-of-age story, right?

Because, like, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz isn't just, I think, a children's story. A lot of children's books have, or young adult books have, a lot of appeal for people in older audiences. That's why people are still always revisiting Harry Potter. And I think that you can see that this is a lesson that is carried through the ages for all ages.

The Tin Man, the Lion, the Scarecrow. Yes, they say they were always like this, but at one point they likely weren't just what they are. They became this way. They went back this way. It's kind of like that whole idea in adulthood of losing your way and finding your way back on the path. And I think there's a lot of that in this story for the adults. We see people like Jamie struggle with that. We see people like Theon struggle with that. And we even see John struggle with which road is the path more followed or the path that he should follow more. path more followed or the path that he should follow more and we'll of course be touching on those ideas we touched on them as you said in theon's storyline but what it means to get back to those lessons and those values as we explore other characters and of course in john like we're

going to be exploring this idea of courage throughout these chapters and i mean it's it's ever present in john's storyline especially when he's in conjunction with sam in these first few books where you know sam's storyline is wrapped up in john's and so with that let's jump into our lightning round to get into these Jon chapters. Yeah, what we've missed between Jon I and Jon II in A Clash of Kings. Catelyn I. Robb presents peace terms to Ser Cleos Frey, and Catelyn later argues with him over Jaime Lannister and Theon Greyjoy.

She and the Blackfish plan an alliance with King Renly Baratheon. Tyrion II. Tyrion requests dinner with Jano Slynt, but he has an ulterior motive. He has Slynt captured and forced to join the Night's Watch, then discusses affairs with Varys. Arya 3.

Off the King's Road, Arya runs into a pack of wolves. Davos 1. Skeptical of Stannis's new titles davos watches the seven burn before working with stannis to plan taking the throne theon one theon attempts to broker an alliance between his father and robb but ends up reigniting the good old grayjoy rebellion flame denarius one danny leads her colossar through the red waste losing members as

they go she sends her blood riders scouting and they come back to tell her of the promise of karth this leads us into john too john's ranging has turned up nothing but empty wildling villages jr mormont has him and sam send their findings to Castle Black and discusses Benjen's start with Jon. And so that opens with Jon too, where Jon does not think much of Whitetree, which is apparently a small wildling village, but he does think that this weirwood is the biggest that he's ever seen and has the strangest, most unsettling face carved into it.

And my commentary is I really like this big tree. carved into it and my commentaries i really like this big tree i like that it paints this picture of him being far from home right uh you think of winterfell as the north but this is the true north these trees are huge and unsettling and these people are unsettling to john and i do love that in the beginning of clash he starts thinking the wildlings and who they are and where they live are small and that they you know don't really have value but by the end of a clash of kings he has conflicting thoughts of leaving them right he doesn't even want to leave these people he really comes to understand the free folk and understand and treat them as humans yeah he starts to

embrace that you know the freedom that they have and not necessarily valuing these sorts of dwellings but yeah this tree it's the only time he's ever had to not make choices true well until he he struggled with the choice internally and when he would have to

do it but um yeah it's the ultimate Rainforest Cafe tree and I'm still on this. Regarding the tree though, the characters actually have things to say about it such as, an old tree, Mormont sat his horse frowning.

Old, his raven agreed from his shoulder. Old, old, old. And powerful. Jon could feel the power. And so Jon recalls Ned Stark telling him of a time that the old gods, they could actually sense when you

are lying through the weirwoods. Jon brings the dead, burnt wildling skulls that are inside the tree's mouth to Jeyer Mormont for examination. And I do think it's interesting that at the beginning of this chapter john thinks on how the face of the tree is large enough to swallow a sheep but what's inside he says are not sheep bones and it's later on in

this entire story the whole song of ice and fire but it kind of reminds me of denarius looking at the bones that the shepherd has brought her and Meereen and realizing that those are not the bones of a sheep, but of a child. That's interesting, especially considering the dragons and the old gods, you know, they just are this power, this force, this magic.

And what it asks of you, right? It seems as though there's definitely blood sacrifice as part of the ritual maybe activating or being or or anything to do with a weirwood tree they're not just cool plants is it almost like a joke that george is kind of poking at us like that you can't lie in front of the gods but it's just like you know george washington could not tell a lie oh that's funny the cherry tree and the shit and the thing yeah obviously not real stories yeah i mean it's it's kind of funny because i think

what it was meant to be is kind of lost throughout the ages because i don't think it's that you can't tell a lie a lie in front of the heart tree or in front of the weirwood it's that whoever's in it can see the things and knows that you're full of shit. But it's translated into this little colloquialism over time. You yourself are suddenly like, something comes over you and you're forced to tell the truth.

Like in Liar Liar. It's like a thing we tell kids. Like Santa. You're Jim Carrey in Liar Liar. I'm Jim Carrey. You cannot lie anymore. John thinks of the dead rising

while J.R. monologues about what it would be like to live in their dead bony shoes. And John pilfers through a wildling's abandoned home with none other than Ed. Bad enough when the dead come walking, he said to John as they crossed the village. Now the old bear

wants them talking as well no good will come of that i'll warrant and who's to say the bones wouldn't lie why should death make a man truthful or even clever the dead are likely dull fellows full of tedious complaints the ground's too cold my gravestone should be larger why does he get more worms than i do there's a couple of things in this quote that kind of give me pause such as you know this whole like who's to say the bones wouldn't lie i don't think that george has actually planned this out this far ahead even though we do get our first sighting of faceless men in this book being faceless men and doing faceless men things i don't think that he's planned it out but it does

remind me of rattle shirt that line but the other is also whether we should see it as pointing to john's eventual death and resurrection because i think that one is likely within george's yeah his garden he's he's had a goal in there he was trying to make that fruit happen. And he stated many times that death ought to change a person. George has, and that's something that he wants to react to within Lord of the Rings. So why should death make a man

truthful or clever, as Ed asks? And if it doesn't make them truthful or clever, what does death make a man? And we're going to find out with Jon. Yeah, and it's also heavily shadowed in Arya's plot with Barret, for example, later on. It's also very much so seen with Jon in this book later on with Corrin Halfhand. Yes.

Jon thinks that this place is a total roach motel and dolores ed is like this is all some people get homie at least they have a bed they both are kind of sniffing around and they smell dung they smell poop and they investigate it it's old poop though uh just so you know this place has been abandoned for a while john shows shows this kind of surprise at Ed saying, you know, I've stayed in worse places than this. He's still learning to be thankful, right, for his upbringing. And he's still kind of saying things that are like, John, like, what do you expect? They made all of this. This is all they had because this is what their capabilities were. But he does show aptitude in shutting his mouth and listening to what Dolores Ed says

instead of charging ahead with like his oh like this place is garbage and they could have done this instead you know without listening he just like lets Dolores Ed say some stuff he's like oh that makes sense yeah but at the same time also like what happened to your house Ed yeah right did you like there's a whole there's a whole tallit house anyways he is house tallit but he wasn't saying like where he yeah he was saying you know that he's been in horrible places before the night's watch which makes me wonder if like you know he was kind of a burnout as a kid right did a little too much of the shade of the evening yeah too much uh parents kicked him out of the house.

Too much sour leaf. I mean, sour leaf? I don't know. You can have sour leaf and be an entrepreneur as Masha Heddle shows. As I show. Yeah, true. Alright. Then we also have Thorin Smallwood who has now decided to wear

Jeremy Riker's clasped cloak, breastplate, and mail. And he says that the wildlings were at Whitetree only a year ago. His wearing of the cloak shows that the Night's Watch wastes nothing. Yeah, not only is Jeremy wearing Riker's clothing, but by putting it on, he kind of becomes the next Riker he meets a similar end as Jeremy he dies in the fight at the fist in the end of storm of swords so by wearing that outfit he kind of dooms himself to that fate I wonder if there's like a thing about people who are wearing really nice things because when I was reading this description of Thorin Smallwood's clothing and what was thus Jeremy Riker's clothing it sounded almost like

how nicely dressed Waymar Royce was at the beginning of the game and I don't know do the others just hate fashion? I mean in the show they hate that Jon Snow gets to be

with his boyfriend Sam south of the wall and they don't get to so I understand what that's it right that was the whole reason that's why they came south and the Night King was like I'm gonna kill Ed

that's why he was going after Sam so hard that's why we had all that focus I know and Jon that's what it was about he just wanted to be happy with his five boyfriends or four boyfriends or however many boyfriends he had at the end they were like 12 I think I don't know

the boys of the Night's Watch though want to make camp J.R. is like we're gonna go north we're gonna scout the next area and then we can like fish the lake but we don't have much time he's like paying attention to it being cold out yada yada jay or asks john to fetch him writing utensils so he can send a raven to maester amen about the abandoned villages and we get a sense that jay has been sending these messages back to maester amen periodically throughout the this voyage and not only is it

to ensure that everyone at the wall knows like what's happening and hey this is where we're at we haven't found Benjen yet whoops um and for keeping tabs but it's also I get a sense of like what Sam was saying before they went out on the ranging like hey all of these details might be of importance to people later

on so that they know where things are like what places are populated what aren't if they were to ever also go north of the wall yeah people don't give that as much credit as it deserves in my opinion uh that is one thing like yes george doesn't always pay attention to like miles little fingers jetpack the big joke about the show that he just goes all over yes that's true but george doesn't really pay attention to that either you know you have to kind of thematically figure out what happens when in a chronological order yeah i mean like catelyn makes it what from in book one she goes from winterfell to king's landing to the veil to the riverlands like yeah it's it's a

problem with just writing and world building in general sometimes that's how life goes yeah it's it's a problem with just writing and world building in general sometimes that's how life goes yeah it's fine it's fine i do love the exposition here of how they ride by day they take the rangers road which it's kind of a play on the king's road right everything north of the wall has been jokingly inverted almost. The Ranger's Road. The King's Road is paved and beautiful and leads you to a fancy castle full of maids and knights and yada yada and dancing and happiness. And then there's the Ranger's Road. It's a road to icy hell where blue-eyed zombies live in horrible, horrible freezing conditions. I think this is going to come into play a little more in the next chapter some of these parallels so we'll talk about it then but after they take the

rangers road you get by night they camp beneath the starry sky and gazed up at the comet a clash of kings has been keeping this rhythm this just slow rhythm in the background of the comet streaking the sky in the background of all of our main characters and our pov stories it kind of lays over every single event in the sky i don't know if this is like in my head and i've glazed over anything about it but it i kind of feel like i don't see anyone in the night's watch claim that the red comet means anything or it's their herald or their story or it means like a sign of anything and i think that very much goes to show you their practicality and humility within their order the you know the whole watch takes no heraldry you know they are no one yeah which of course all the start kids are in positions right now where they are stripping themselves of their claim even ricken to an

extent in skagos so interesting that it doesn't mean anything, really, in the end to any of them. Except for George, who has joked that, you know, if he ever struggles with ending the series, he's like, well, I still have that red comet. It means the world. What does one bastard comet mean?

The end. Becomes Armageddon. Isn't that the story of Armageddon in a way? anyway yeah it's okay what is one astronaut life anyway so the tensions are growing and people are worried about the abandoned wildling villages because not only have

the people fled also the animals seem to have fled as well the haunted forest had never seemed more haunted even veteran rangers agreed that's how you know it's spooky and scary. Spoopy! Spoopy! As he rode, John peeled off his glove to air his burned fingers.

Ugly things. He remembered suddenly how he used to muss Arya's hair, his little stick of a sister. He wondered how she was faring and made him a little sad to think that he might never muss her hair again. He began to flex his hand, opening and closing the fingers. If he let his sword hand stiffen and grow clumsy, it well might be the end of him, he knew. A man needed his sword beyond the wall. John's personal tick in A Song of Ice and Fire becomes his flexing of his hand post-injury. Just like, you know, Jaime's and Moonboy for all I know,

and Tyrion's thrumming of the crossbow, and John Connington's tolling of the bells. When John even gets that letter from Ramsay Snow, or Ramsay Bolton, we should say, sorry, all respect, he gets that nice pink letter. He flexes it angrily, right? And it just is this like rhythm in his plot, this flexes his hand, flexes his hand flexes his hand he's

always flexing his hand and i also love that it ties in with catelyn as well after she defended bran from the cat spa their injuries are very parallel and they both are having an interesting uh interesting plot moments right now both kind of going to a place they don't want to have to go to beg for help from someone they don't want to beg from yes that's a great parallel between john and cat really goes to show you why people after the first book had uh those theories that john and cat were we're gonna beg that that is not made up people came up with those theories everything exists i know on the internet anyways john then gives the messages for maester amen to sam while telling him of the villages and then sam tells john that he isn't really scared uh he holds out his non-shaking hand to prove it and he says that he's craven

but not stupid and it's sort of an echo to the first time we meet sam in a game of thrones uh when john asks if sam has seen the wall. Jon thinks it's kind of funny because of all the people going on this ranging. He's like, who would have expected Sam the self-professed coward to be the one becoming more comfortable and less afraid? Yeah, absolutely. He's very impressed

by it. He tells him we can make a ranger out of you. Yeah, and Sam's like, oh god no. Don't you dare. was like oh sam also saying how dare you yeah sam's really disappointed he wanted to sleep under a roof in the village that was kind of his little his whimsical oh that's what i wanted was you know sleeping under a roof uh but he and john both know they have to keep moving the commander says so and John especially knows that they have to keep moving

otherwise the things in the night come back riding at a white tree ghost shows up our good boy our very good boy but he shows up hungry, empty mouthed he gets no food no one gets to eat fresh game tonight

all the game has been spooked and is gone. John tells the rest of the men the game must be frightened by their large party. I think he's trying to convince himself, moreover. And Dwyan, of course, doesn't buy that. He says more like they're frightened by something. We know, Dwyan. Okay, so the Lord Commander and John ride near each other as they head towards, I don't know where the fishes are. They rode in silence until Jon said, if my uncles found all these villages empty as well, he would have made it his purpose to learn why.

Lord Mormont finished for him, and it may well be someone or something did not want that known. not want that known. Well, well, we'll be 300 when Corrin joins us. Whatever enemy waits out here will not find us so easy to deal with. We will find them, Jon. I promise you. Or they will find us, thought Jon. Poor Jeor Mormont. He is chasing something out of his duty to that and he's not gonna find him well the others do find jr and also jr mormont making a promise i it doesn't mean anything but i just i'm like oh promises and john promise i promise you promise promise promise me jr promise me jr okay well and that's what makes the next chapter so hard, because J.R. really has become such a father figure that Jon respects, and now Jon is like, okay, yeah, he is grooming me to be like him.

But as we learn, the Night's Watch, while they don't take sides, and they don't take part, they don't take part. They really just don't take part. They do what they can for their purpose. And at what point does it become complicity well we will talk about that soon but first Eliana

are we going to see Benjen ever again don't be pedantic that's not Benjen so in A Dance with Dragon and Bran's Vision oh that oh I thought we were talking about Coldhands I was like Coldhands isn't Benjen. Oh, yeah, no.

George said, okay, so first of all, in the show, right, Benjen does end up being a Coldhands-like figure. But in the books, dear readers and listeners, user underscore Honeybird on Reddit went to visit the Cushing Library at Texas, I think, A&M University, where they have the manuscript of A Dance with Dragons. And you can see some of the editor's notes as well as George R. Martin's own notes in response. And the editor asks of Coldhands, is this Benjen? And George writes, no. So Coldh hands, not Benjen in the books. Okay, but that's not my question.

Yes, I do think we are going to see Benjen again. I thought it was said, I couldn't quote it for you, I couldn't cite the source for you, that George had said somewhere that we will learn about what happened to Benjen. What if he doesn't give us Benjen though and it's just like he was dead or something? What if he's just a white? I mean, then we still know what happened to Benjen then.

Yeah, that's true. There has to be some sort of closure there. I hope we do get some closure. It's too big of a mystery. Right, well for now, I guess the most closure we're going to get is to move on to our lightning round between John 2 and John 3. Isn't that what closure really is, in a sense?

Just learning to move on? Moving on. Yeah. Closure is just moving on. You learned it from here first, but not really. Hopefully you've already learned that in your life lessons, everyone. In your own coming-of-age story.

So, lightning round. What we missed. Arya IV, on the shores of the God's Eye, Lannister men, led by Amory Lorch, arrive and fight Yoren's group. Yoren orders Arya to get the others out, and she saves three trapped criminals as well. Tyrion III three the small council

plans to quash stannis's rumor mill with their own trash talk tyrian leaves to commission a very large project with the blacksmiths of the city and later meets with various in a brothel brand two the harvest feast has kicked off and lady hornwood voices her concerns of the bastard of the dreadfort same. Clay Kerwin arrives, bringing news of Cersei's incest, and Bran leader dreams of a golden man who throws him out of the Broken Tower. Tyrion IV.

Mistrusting his fellow counselors, Tyrion lays a scheme to each Pycelle, Varys, and Baelish. He learns where their true loyalties lie. Sansa too. Sansa seeks the author of a secret note in the Godswood, one that promises to whisk her away from the castle.

But alas, Dantos is no true knight. She meets Sander Clegane on her way back to her chambers. Arya 5. Arya reveals her identity at Gendry, and both are separately captured by the Mountain's men. Lami is killed.

What the fuck, Salami? Salami? You know when the hound's like, what the fuck, Salami? Yes, I remember this. If you just move the S over it's what the fuck, Salami? That should be another thing we say all the time. I've decided

what the fuck, Salami? Dude, I hope you join in on it with me, because I say it and everybody just looks at me and they're like, what? We should have salami sandwiches, too. What the fuck, salami sandwiches? Sand or sandwiches. I call them salames because sometimes they're spelled. Okay, anyways.

Tyrion V. Tyrion discusses a production run with the local alchemist and faces Cersei's wrath about his scheming. Bran 3. Bran plays Lorden Winterfell, and he welcomes the representatives from House Reed, Meera, and Jojen. He dreams through Summer's eyes in the Godswood. Catelyn 2. Catelyn journeys to Bitterbridge to treat with King Renly Baratheon who insists that Rob must bend a knee. A messenger arrives with news of King Stannis Baratheon sieging the

Storm's End. I can't understand people that fight between Stannis and Renly when it's like Rob is right there. I know. Northern Independence. Bad kings. Northern Independence. That'ses. Northern Independence. That's all I care about.

So in John 3, another thing I care about, John chapters apparently. The ranging finally finds something. People at Craster's keep. Craster is a dark, cold man. He has always been an ally-h to the watch but john discovers a terrible and foreboding secret about the man that you know everyone else knows and even worse the men that he looks up to knew about it all but all men even gross awful ones have some sort of worth which john discovers as well and so the great ranging forges deeper into the

woods along with crossing a stream it's actually been raining very very hard for like six days and in the discomfort of adventure john longs for the warm fires and food of the wall so i mentioned last chapter this is very much the nega king's road right anti-king's road it's like it is it's a it's a negaverse version and we're seeing a similar one in a game of thrones 9 right with cadillan going to the twins we just left this chapter a little bit ago in a game of thrones and it's right down to that food to ensure safety that we're going to hear about later when Jon declines Craster's food and Jeor has this faith that Craster's going to do the right thing or uphold their end of the Night's Watch's societal deal with them. There's also this idea that Eliana keeps throwing around

lately of what the cost is, right? It's how high is the cost for what your character wants to accomplish? And is the cost too much? Well, of course there's a cost to doing business, and many people turn a blind eye, including Catelyn and Jeor, to how Craster and Walder do business. So many parallels. They both play very similar roles in these plots, and the rain coming down is very much a storm of swords catalan chapters on the way to the twins yes i'm really liking all these parallels that you've been

bringing up with with these two characters who seem very much at odds and along with all of that the way that this chapter starts kind of reminds me of quentin's adventures of course like the way his chapters start with adventure stink referring to the ship but also of course the meta idea of adventure because John's adventure is actually very much so at the beginning unlike Quentin's which is like in the middle but John can already see that this isn't all it's cracked up to be he wants to be back at his warm hearth uh he hasn't lost any of his friends yet. And he continues to go forward into the cold, realizing that turns out adventure does smell like mold and poop. And it's like a lot of poop.

And it's also cold. Well, there's a lot to argue there, too, that Jon's adventure does end in death, obviously, from his choices at the end of A Dance with Dragons. obviously from his choices at the end of a dance with dragons but john as we speculate since it's not out in the books yet um john gets to come back right and quentin does not get to come back in the end quentin was not the hero but john is the hero and john gets to come back yeah so there's a little bit of that sense of luck and unfairness which i think is something that george is exploring in these books as well the horn sounds letting the column know that hey turns out craster is still here we did it good job team his place offers a promise of counsel and reprieve so long as he gives us a hot meal and a chance to dry our clothes i'll be happy diwin said Craster was a

kinslayer, liar, raper, and craven and hinted that he trafficked with slavers and demons. And worse, the old forester would add, clacking his wooden teeth. There's a cold smell to that one, there is. It definitely reminds me,

this whole chapter reminds me of Catelyn VI in A Storm of Swords. Right? With Rob and Catelyn when Rob says he's more wet than hungry and she begs Rob, once you've eaten his bread and salt, you have the guest right. You can stay beneath his roof and you'll be protected.

And Rob says, if it please Lord Walder to serve me stewed crow smothered in maggots, I'll eat it and ask for a second bowl. Lots of similar imagery, that gross death-like, just gray. Everything feels very gray. Yeah, and that these two really kind of disgusting men are the keepers of, in a way, the gates when it comes to the north and the gates of the south.

Yeah, absolutely. And you, of course, have to pay a toll to pass through those bridges. The toll is a lot cheaper, I think, for Craster. Other than, you know, your morality. Yep. Keep

your mouth shut and don't tell. Keep the secret and we're good here, homie. That's pretty much what it is. Homie. Ish. Except every single year, it gets more and more strained. Yes. as much as possible because yes craster the very sexy sexy charismatic man has many wives that he's made himself more about what you think about craster chloe nope not gonna do that uh you may go on john then meets up with sam and says that he looks forward to staying by Craster's fire. Sam looked dubious. Dolorous Ed says Craster's a terrible savage.

He marries his daughters and obeys no laws but those he makes himself. And Diwin told Gren he's got black blood in his veins. His mother was a wildling woman who lay with a ranger, so he's a best. Suddenly he realized what he was about to say. A bastard, Sean said with a laugh. You can say it, Sam. I've heard the word before. Oh, that word doesn't hurt him anymore, right?

He's going to be made fun of for being a bastard later on by some assholes. But John's learned to accept who he is. And now people can't use it against Sam Perterian Lannister's advice. But also this chapter slowly builds the horror that is Craster, as terrifying as the wights are. I think Craster might be his own kind of monster. Like, what's awful is that he also isn't a monster. That's what's so terrible.

Yeah, he's just a man. And he's a man that was capable of doing terrible garbage things like this. That's the thing, though, is at the same time, Craster was never going to change. Yeah. He has upkept a deal with the devil that has been passed down for his generations, basically. And what would happen if he didn't? He'd be kneeling to someone, right? That's his thing.

He doesn't want to set aside his pride or his independence to kneel to any of these kings or to kneel to the Night's Watch for protection. And yes, what he's doing is absolutely garbage and gross, but he is part of a system that has spun out of control dictated by the others. And he can't really set aside all that to break the cycle at this point it's too far gone yeah he sold his own soul and a bunch of other souls i guess it's that's the price that he's paying that's his humanity in not just in terms of his soul but like that morality john carries a message to the rest of the rangers that hey we're staying here tonight

and don't touch any of craster's wives okay and so john then cuts through a nature path it's really nice and pretty and you should go read it john then calls for ghosts because he thinks that he's here rustling but turns out it's diwin lol also grin there's some pretty funny cute banter diwin has wooden teeth he's a pretty funny dude too then after some small talk about how craster quote unquote breeds his own wives ghost finally actually appears craster's keep is nothing what john imagined it would be and his thoughts of what the castle would have been were already pretty modest. This is a small compound. It has a gate that's flanked by a bear and a ram skull, because that's not heavy-handed.

When Jon returns, the women have been preparing a pig for slaughter, and Chet's hounds and Craster's dogs snap at each other, but all cower when Ghost appears. I will say that Jon thinking of how Craster's Keep is not a castle reminds me of yeah just cause you know we

decided we were going to cry in this moment. Is this a true castle? You were so basic back then too Jon. I know. Anyway, many of the men will have to sleep outside of like the 200 that are here at the moment because they haven't met up with corn's men yet only 30 to 50 may actually be able to fit and sleep indoors uh much like uh the wedding oh yes true uh doler said

uh doesn't want to sleep indoors because he distrusts Craster. And also he's like, it smells funny. Smells like incest. Poop. Incest poop. It's literally incest poop when you think about it. All of it is, yes. More than

not. True. True. Except for the aminal poop. Probably incest too. Maybe. True. Except for the aminal poop. Probably incest, too. Maybe. I mean, Gilly's talking about breeding these rabbits. It's like when you make Pokemon. Anyways, Dolores Ed tells John that J.R. Mormont wants to go see him.

Wants John to see him in the hall. And inside... You in trouble? Inside the hall, it's smoky and dirty and stinky and John thinks that this is supposed to be one of the wonders beyond the wall and when they're in the hall

out of everyone who's sitting on a bench only Craster has his own chair I like that Mormont still has his raven on his shoulder here we're gonna come back to this raven in a moment because he and the birb are one. It's kind of sweet to think that Bloodraven is watching out for

his future Hogwarts professor headmaster, you know? Yeah. That he's, like, still watching out for these guys. Do he and J.R. Mormont have a connection? Are they friends? Like, in a way? Through the birb? Yes, I mean, through the birb. Or maybe J.R. Mormont has a way through the burb through the burb or maybe

jr mormon has a connection with the burb and the burb wants to stay there and blood raven's like i can't fight this bird brain that much also it gives him a view at what the hell the night's watch is doing true true they're close jr and this bird earlier John had remarked on how Thorin Smallwood looked allured in Jeremy Riker's nice clothing. Craster's sheepskin jerkin and cloak of sewn skins made a shabby contrast, but around one thick wrist was a heavy ring that had the glint of gold. He looked to be a powerful man, though well into the winter of his days now, his mane of gray hair going to white. A flat nose and a drooping mouth gave him a cruel look, and one of his ears was missing. So this is a wildling, John remembered old Nan's tales of the savage folk who drank blood from human skulls. Craster seemed to be drinking from a thin yellow beer from a chipped stone cup.

Perhaps he had not heard the stories i just really liked this passage and wanted to call it out because this is in many ways john's first time ever encountering a wildling so someone from that other culture and for him the first thing he notices is wait this doesn't match up with the stories that i was told of what wildlings are like and it's i think the beginning of the veil being pulled off of john's eyes of learning to see the wildlings and the free folk for who they are i love that each of these kids is kind of getting that experience like they're finally oh that's just what we were taught in winterfell sansa oh that's

what septimordane taught me aria oh i can do this i could go here oh this is horrible they're all getting these doses of reality and being pulled out of that uh sheltered little kid mode they're they ask Craster some questions about Benjen, and Craster's like, I haven't seen Benjen in three years, though he actually should have, based on where Benjen would have gone first to search for Waymar. Craster, though, remembers

Waymar, Gerrit, and Will, and says that Waymar was actually too proud to sleep under his roof, which I think is interesting. I wonder what Waymar was too proud to sleep under his roof for. Was Waymar too proud to sleep under his roof because of how shitty the place was? Or was he because in some ways, we see similarities between Waymar and Jon as Joe Magician points out, was Waymar too proud to sleep under Craster's roof seeing what a terrible person Craster was and didn't want to accept his guest right in the way that Jon won't later?

Yeah, it's a complete inverse from Catelyn urging Rob to accept that guest right, and it's kind of an insult back, probably, that, you know, Jon, Waymar, likely Benjen even, nope, I'm good, don't want to do that. It's possible that Benjen did. It is very much the Stark way. Yeah. So it's just a question that I have of what was meant by being too proud.

Yeah. It's a good question. Honestly, it's a kind of a phrase I think George wants us to interpret. This can be added to my list of questions I want to ask George one day that no one else wants me to ask because there are probably more important things to ask. Yep. That'd kill you. If I wasted it on that. George, tell me about the hours of the day. wants me to ask because there are probably more important things to ask yep i'd kill you if i wasted it on that george tell me about the hours of the day george tell me why didn't way

bar sleep at craster's place you know it would end up being something like george do you want to hear me freestyle rap as little pigeon and he'd be like no but yes. Craster makes requests to the Night's Watch. He asks them for wine and a new axe. And Mormont counters with an escort detail to the wall. Craster refuses and he says, We're free folk here. Craster serves no man. After Craster says this, some of the men are like, Are you sure? The cold winds are rising.

And he's like, Let them them rise my roots are sunk deep craster grabbed a passing woman by the wrist tell him wife tell the lord crow how well content we are the woman licked at thin lips this is our place craster keeps us safe better to die free than live a slave. Slave, muttered the raven. The question of freedom then starts to emerge in the story. It hasn't really come to the forefront yet, but it's kind of been simmering there in the background with how Dany's story goes in A Game of Thrones, and of course with our introduction to the wights and them being maybe controlled but the raven repeating it here and the irony of craster's wife of all people being like yeah it's better to die free than live a slave um that's why i tried to make it sound as culty as possible yeah she licks her lips because she's hesitating and and trying to remember what she's supposed to say that won't get her hurt. And Crosser

seems to see himself like he's free, right? In a way but it becomes evident that his daughter wives very much aren't he's the only one who gets to be some semblance of free in this whole situation but as you were saying earlier Chloe

he has this arrangement with the others. And if he's then bound to give his sons and he has to give all of his sheep that he depends on to live to these cruel old gods, well, what really is free? Are you that free, Craster? And moreover than that, what happens when the devil goes back on his deal? Uh-huh. what happens when the devil goes back on his deal? I mean, it's pretty apparent that they can't be popping out sons fast enough

to really make the others care or matter. What happens when your god turns away from you and casts you down? Do you really think they won't come for his whole entire family at some point? What happens when they get bored of him? Because you see the way that they react to Waymar. They laugh at him. They just see the people as insects. Like, I don't think that

they're necessarily dependent on Craster. I think they see Craster as their plaything. I don't think he's safe. Yeah, they're just like, what can we get this guy to do? Yeah. Mormont tells Craster of the empty wildling villages and what's happening with the wights at Castle Black. We've had no such troubles here, and I'll thank you not to tell such evil tales under my roof. I'm a godly man, and the gods

keep me safe. If wights come walking, I'll know how to send them back to their graves. Though, I could use me a sh- Though, I could use me a sharp new axe. You know, it really makes me think about how I think Craster's just very afraid. Yes, he absolutely is afraid. Does he refuse the escort guard to Castle Black because he's afraid?

I would imagine. I mean, wouldn't you want to die at afraid? I would imagine. I mean, wouldn't you want to die at home? That's true. I mean, it's certainly his home. It's the only home I guess a lot of these women have known, better or worse. Mostly for worse.

Mormont then ventures to ask, how will Craster deal with Mance Rayder, who is now the king beyond the wall? Because turns out, all of these emptyaster deal with Mance Rayder who is now the king beyond the wall because turns out all of these empty villages are actually Mance Rayder's doing he's the one sending for all of these people in these villages to join him Craster's like whatever that's why all these villages are empty and then he says that I guess Mormont and the watch want to stay here under my roof but I don't actually have enough food for all of you. But that's fine, because the watch has brought some. And they may enjoy some of Craster's hospitality in his fire,

but no one can touch his wives. Per John's suggestion, they send for Sam when Craster says, I can help you with a map. And then John also is sent to go get an axe to gift Craster, but as Jon comes forward, Craster notes that Jon has the look of a Stark. That's the quote. There's lots of interesting lore and ideas hidden in this. Really, we urge you to read The Killing of a Ranger by Joe Magician, who he had on last book in A Game of Thrones for Jon. Basically, the too-long-don of it is waymar looks like a stark uh craster just said so the others took this info put him

through kind of a test of his sword play his abilities and what kind of sword he owned he loses the duel he doesn't have dragon steel he's murdered on the spot by the others, and they retreat after killing only one of his companions, leaving someone behind to go tell the tale. This idea behind the others seeking out Stark-like characters has a lot of implications to the story, but there's

also kind of a softer analysis that, yes, Jon has that outer look of a Stark here, but the insolent looks that he's throwing at caster are likely very stark like as well right they're very judgmental eddard would frown upon this benjamin probably frowned upon this and john obviously frowns upon all of this i like that that craster sees the disgust and the stain in John's face. He's not great at hiding it.

Not at all. Which, you know, can be, I guess, a disadvantage when it comes to politicking, and he learns to hide his emotions better later on, but it's to John's credit that he wears his heart on his sleeve in a lot of ways. John then goes off to join Dolores Ed to ask for the the axe and ed again distrusts craster do you know the difference between a wild thing who's a friend of the watch and one who's not asked the dower squire our enemies leave our bodies for the crows and the wolves our friends bury us in secret graves i wonder how long that bear's been nailed up on that gate, and what Craster had there before we came hallowing. Yup.

Yeah, I do think this is an interesting quote for a number of reasons, because A, it's funny that Dolores Edd goes, you know, your enemies are just going to be open about it, and your quote-unquote friends are going to hide their evil deeds. But Dolores Edd, he's a man of the night's watch right and they've been taught that wildlings are the enemy and so for him there's no such thing as a wildling that's a friend to the watch whereas john learns differently as he becomes a part of that free folk culture yes and this is just the start of that part of john's journey. Anyways, Jon walks away to go feed the horses, and he hears a girl crying about a wolf. And obviously, this is Jon's wolf, okay? Because he's with the wolf. So he goes there to check it out and to, like, calm this girl down.

And the wolf has a rabbit in his mouth. This girl that Jon encounters is about 15 or 16, and she's pregnant. She's one of Craster's daughters and she says, now his wife. And she's kind of bummed because she was going to breed these rabbits because there weren't any more sheep. Because they're running out of food

in winter's year. Yeah. Thanks a lot, Ghost and John. John promises to pay them back though. He's not sure how, but he's like, we'll pay you back. And then some other members of the Watch make fun of John for being a bastard and lord and saying that he's a brother to kings, when suddenly this girl remembers she's not supposed to speak with any of them. Okay, John, we'll pay you back for it.

How? Who's gonna pay for it, John? No one's got money, and it doesn't matter north of the wall. Your money doesn't work here. They give Crosstor a crossbow which is apparently worth more I don't know if it's in reaction to John but they were just like it's fine this crossbow is like a bazillion rabbits right chat is being super insufferable after making fun of John and he blames John for the loss of his cushy position next to Eamon and he says John wouldn't be so brave without Ghost and Lark is making fun of him as well but John refuses to fight his

brothers he doesn't take the bait and he walks away he's got other things to do and other things on his mind he does okay he finds Sam to go send Sam to Mormont. There's a lot of just people being sent to other people to send them in these chapters. But Sam's feet are like wet because he jumped into a puddle that he thought was land.

John's like, let's go dry your shoes and your socks and then eat this rabbit some of the

other brothers uh actually including ghost are very envious of this rabbit but john's like ghost you already

fucking ate you greedy pupper uh they they start to talk about how there are no men and it's a wonder craster can hold the place again you know they're trying to tell you something's awry yes like who's protecting this place why

is this happening john falls asleep and he wakes up cold and he's wet and he's achy and we get this beautiful passage about nature he crept beneath it and stood up in a forest turned to crystal the pale pink light of dawn sparkled on branch and leaf and stone every blade of grass was carved from emerald every drip of water turned to diamond flowers and mushrooms alike wore coats of glass even the mud puddles had a bright brown sheen. Through the shimmering greenery, the black tents of his brothers were encased in a fine glaze of ice. So there's magic beyond the wall after all. He found himself thinking of his sisters, perhaps because he dreamed of them last night. Sansa would call this an enchantment and tears would fill her

eyes at the wonder of it, but Arya would run out laughing and shouting wanting to touch it all yeah some of George's best imagery and descriptions of nature are in these Jon chapters like beyond the wall might be haunted and desolate and like shitty a lot of the time but that doesn't

make it any less beautiful as you can see from scenes like this it's just it's just a really standout passage and there's definitely something in there about finding all of this magic in the mundane as opposed to in these like horrible rituals right as john is doing now and i also just like this moment of john remembering his sisters like of course sansa might be one of my favorite characters but I would totally be more like Arya going out and trying to touch all the things

that is very much you and I would be the Sansa of us two because I would just be standing there like wow it's so beautiful and I'd get all teary eyed and I'd just look around and I'd just have a little oh happy face on and you'd just be out there wrecking shit I wouldn't be wrecking it

i would be touching it and maybe it would wreck a little uh there's a little just because like the heat from my fingers there's a story apparently of me as a child and i guess maybe i've never killed the girl and let the one be born i don't know or i don't know my mother got chastised in the bakery because i was like poking the breads because they were squishy. That sounds like you. Yep. Yeah, that's me. Sounds great. So the girl that was scared by ghosts shows up and she's wearing Sam's cloak.

John's like, what the fuck? He's just like, what are you doing? We're not supposed to do this. Sam. There's a meme meme Gordon Ramsay has bread over someone's ears and it just says like what are you an idiot sandwich that's what

John wants to do to Sam right now when he sees that cloak that's like both of them all the time I love my idiot children yeah that's true what are you doing anyway she comes up sam's cloak she says that the fat one said john would be here and asks if he's brother to a king apparently sam gave her the

cloak so no one would say the girl didn't belong i don't know what that means out hanging out with the boys i guess i guess is this like him giving his letterman jacket? Like, I'm confused. Yeah. The girl begins by saying kings are supposed to be just and protect the weak. And then she begs John to take her with him and offers to be his wife. And John's like, that's literally the one thing

I'm not allowed to do. Like, if you had to pick one thing I can't do, that's it. Like, that's the one right there. And she bags him to take her with him. And he was like, I can't. Guest right. Like, I'm here as a guest.

I'm your guest here. And Gilly says, you're technically not breaking guest right if you didn't eat at Craster's board nor sleep by Craster's fire. Gilly, he called me for Gilly flour. That's fire. Gilly, he called me for Gilly Flower. That's pretty. He remembered Sansa telling him once that he should say that whenever a lady told him her name. He could not help the girl,

but perhaps the courtesy would please her. Is it Craster who frightens you, Gilly? For the baby, not for me. If it's a girl that's not so bad, she'll grow a few years and he'll marry her. But Nilla says it's to be a boy and she's had sex and knows these things. He gives the boys to the gods. Come the white cold, he does, and of late it comes more often.

That's why he started giving them sheep, even though he has a taste for mutton. Only now the sheep's gone too. Next it will be the dogs till... She lowered her eyes and stroked her belly. What gods? John was remembering that they'd seen no boys in craster's keep nor men either save craster himself the cold gods she said the ones in the night the white shadows and suddenly john was back in the lord commander's

tower again a severed hand was climbing his calf and and when he prided off with the point of his longsword it lay writhing, fingers opening and closing. The dead man rose to his feet, blue eyes shining in that gashed and swollen face. Ropes of torn flesh hung from the great wound in his belly, yet there was no blood. What color are the eyes? he asked her. Blue, as bright as blue stars and as cold she has seen them he thought crossed a lied first gilly introducing herself reminding john of sanza and that's what gives him the idea to use courtesy to appease to gilly uh i just thought that was a fun connection but the courtesy isn't enough to appease her because it's all starting to come together for John. Like why there are no men or boys.

Like the earlier parts of the chapter kind of slowly built toward the horror of Craster's sacrifices and why he doesn't fear the whites. But I think that the horror isn't in the undead or the zombies. It's in Craster's actions. Like he's been lying to them the whole time and he does all this terrible shit like it's all colliding here in this interaction with gilly as john pieces together and has to confront that crassers just raping these women and his own daughters and sacrificing slash killing all of his sons so that he gets to live like a king in his own little castle his shitty little castle yeah like this is the power he's trying to keep yeah that's what's so sad is this is it this is what he's trying to keep power wise so that he

doesn't have to kneel to any other king and just it's gross it's gross i wonder if that's why it's called i i'm not joking actually when i say this crassers keep if it's like playing on that idea that he's just trying to keep all of this i don't know for himself or whatever i could see that i don't know i'm thinking too deep just like i'm gonna yeah it's not that deep god i don't think too deep on this other thing too uh first of all the severed hand climbing his calf like that's terrible foreplay for john i'm sure um hey you like what you like yeah that's true um and then the fingers opening and closing uh just like john opening and closing his hands yes the dead hand

and his his own hand trying to keep it alive yeah absolutely it that that hand drives a lot of his hand thought i I bet. He's like imitating it in his, I don't know, every time he thinks about it. And why his hand's burned and why he needs it to be a hand. Hand-like. Gilly then asks John to take her when they come through this way again. No. He could hear the defeat in her voice.

Sorry to be of trouble, my lord. I i only they said the king keeps people safe and i thought despairing she ran sam's cloak flapping behind her like great black wings john watched her go his joy in the morning's brittle beauty gone damn her he thought resentfully and damn sam twice for sending her to me. What did he think I could do for her? We're here to fight wildlings, not save them. God damn it, Sam. When Gilly first brings it up, I don't know if she's trying to appeal to Jon's values at first, or she's like, I hear this is what kings should do. I don't know if that's intentional on her part, but if it is, it's a very smart choice.

And also, I'm just always going to say that Gilly is a tough smart cookie yeah she is we get a lot of really great secondary and like tertiary northern female characters and i really appreciate that not only is she a tough smart cookie but i would say it's likely intentional on george's part as well especially that line they said the king keeps people safe. Because knowing what we know of John and what's probably in his future is he is going to have some sort of claim as Rob's successor via the will. If the TV show that is originally written in these books were based off of has anything to say about it, then John will be king in the north.

He becomes a great leader to the free folk and unites them with the people of the north and I don't know it's just entirely possible George is intentionally saying that just like in a Game of Thrones you know kings under the snow Ned. Snow! Snow Ned.

Yes. I mean I think that's definitely all these things that are at play and they're nudging you about like hey john not just brother to kings by the way brother to kings kings kings kings no okay later on the other men wake up and they joke about bears and wildlings and then as john goes to find mormont Jarvan Buckwell tells Jon to keep his sword sharp. Mormont asks if Jon has had any breakfast, if he's had any of Craster's fare. But suddenly Jon decides in truly, I'm not going to eat any of Craster's food.

And we discussed this earlier, you know, Gilly reminding him of the technicalities of guest right gives Jon kind of an out even though he's not there when the Night's Watch mutiny occurs and thus isn't there to be part of the people breaking guest right. But in Jon choosing that, he's leaving his options open. He's choosing to keep himself free

in that aspect, but also showing that he has those morals and values that he won't accept that hospitality from Craster. My favorite part is the raven pooping on mormont's shoulder that happens after that it's the best i mean jr love hates this bird they're friends we've kind of talked about it already it's so cute i don't know i just love that the bird poops on his shoulder. Yeah. I really wonder how much of that is Bloodraven doing that.

Just saying. Yeah. But also part of it is like, I mean, the bird's got to go somewhere. Right. Right. Yeah. Sam is getting his cloak back from Gilly and he approaches John saying, I thought you would help her. And Sam, of course, wanted to help Gilly because she was afraid,

and he knows how that feels. And he promised they'd take her on the way back home, so he straight up put that in her mind. And it's like when you tell your friend, oh yeah, my friend's going to say no, but we'll do it afterwards. I'll make it happen. Don't worry about it.

John's like, what?'s gonna say no, but like, we'll do it afterwards. Like, I'll make it happen. Don't worry about it. John's like, what? But we learned Sam does have that little manipulative streak, right? He knows a little bit of Southern politics, and he brings that to the court. Yeah, I mean, there's quite a bit of politicking in this chapter, like when Mormont tries to haggle with Craster earlier. But yeah, I like that you're bringing that sam just knows it i mean he doesn't throughout all these but i just think it's hilarious it shouldn't be hilarious but just like what yeah yeah despite sam breaking those rules though john's the one who feels ashamed and there's a lot of like variations of the shame that he's feeling. He's feeling shame at the child's stain, right? Gilly's bastard's shame, his own stain of bastardry, and not just at the child, but at the way the child's been created, the way that Craster is acting in creating abominations and, you know, impregnating these girls and then them having further abominations. And you look at places like Dorne where bastards are celebrated.

That's an exception to the rule. Jon's the rule. He's the accident. He was not meant to be in his mind. To Jon, someone purposefully creating these bastard children, it causes him this immense feeling of shame. And it's just all these themes that come up in this chapter from being a bastard to being a changeling child right a taken child

a stolen child like bail the bar john snow little monster gilly's son you know amen steel song what do you think about craster though telling john at the beginning he's like you're a bastard but that's why I take to wife every woman that I bed, so that none of them will be bastards. And then there's just Jon in the marriage club, he's like, Val, egret,

I want all of you as my wives. Are you saying that Craster is Aegon Targaryen? Come again? Wow. I mean, yes, clearly. Oh my god. Anyway, but yeah, like none of them, he doesn't show any of them love. They are abominations and not meant to be. And it's, there's...

They're vessels for his seed. Oh, gross. Thanks. And just as Jon recognizes that abomination or that bastardy he's also recognizing shame in his own inaction he doesn't voice it quite yet but like sam is acting pretty foolish but john kind of recognizes that sam is showing more bravery in wanting to save gilly and in trying to do that than any of the other brothers, especially as we learn in a bit

that they've actually all known the horrors of Craster's Keep, and Sam's the only one trying to do something to change it for even one person. Yeah, a very small man can cast a very large shadow. Yes. And a round one.

Aww, Sam. As they leave Craster's keep, Jon speaks with Jaor about how Craster has no sons and no sheep. He shares a story he heard of wildlings that birthed half-human children to the others. The ravens quirk

yes when Jon says Craster gives his sons to the wood. Thanks, Bran and Bloodraven, by the way. for the uh the thumbs up yes you did it john you cracked the case you figured it out you cracked the corn case corn detective john pikachu oh my god jp so halfway through his little story to Mormont, he realizes, of course, Mormont knows. All the rangers knew. My uncle knew.

He would recruit the boys, but Craster serves crueler gods and different prayers, is what Jaor says. And Jon thinks his wives must offer different prayers. Yes, and I think that's what's so cruel about the decision that Jaor and the other knights watchmen make compared to what Sam does. They decide to honor Craster's prayers over the ones of the women there. Why do they get to decide which gods hold power and which don't in that sense? Whose prayers get answered, especially because George says he's not going to confirm the existence of gods in his universe, whether or not they exist.

He's not going to confirm the existence of gods in his universe, whether or not they exist. We don't know if they do or if it's the power and magic that we see is just in the guise of religion. And in that sense, it means that power comes from people, right? People get to be their own gods. The old gods are in many ways just those humans. And the Night's Watch has decided that Craster's gods are more important than the wives and their prayers. Anyway, Mormont's just like, too bad, Jon. The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon.

Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft, even now stinking of wine and lost a sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Word me, I'd name it Answered Prayer and Make an End. Yes, John thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen and Craster was one, but- It would be an ill day for us if Craster died. Your uncle could tell you of the times Craster's keep made the difference between life and death for our rangers. My father, he hesitated. Go on, John, say what you would say.

My father once told me that some men are not worth having, John finished. A bannerman who is brutal or unjust dishonors his liege lord as well as himself. Craster is his own man. He has sworn us no vows, nor is he subject to our laws. Your heart is noble, John, but learn a lesson here. We cannot set the world to rights. That is not our purpose. The Night's Watch has other wars to fight. Other wolves. Yes, I must remember that.

There's this harsh reality Catelyn learns when she gets the twins, which Eliana has been drilling into my brain the last month of Game of Thrones and in our Prophecies episode. Nothing's for free. There's always a cost cost and at what point is that cost too high john looks around at all these young and old women and the monster and

corruption that has birthed them and then gets this total defeat from the adults that he trusted all of them they knew the entire time that this horrible thing was happening and they just let it happen to these girls and the stark side of him is obviously pulling him right the ned side knows this is wrong and that his lord father would do what was right no matter what but he has the mormont valyrian sword strapped across his back and he does not have ice strapped across his back his night's watch dad just said it best learn a lesson that's not the purpose of the night's watch yeah exactly there's that price that must be paid in multiple ways of looking at it and the story's always asking the characters that and the reader like where is line do you draw it here do you draw

it here and why do you draw it there and it poses it in different ways and the answer isn't clear and i don't think the story ever intends to answer it but as marmont says we have other boars i see you george i see you but throughout this chapter john is of course reckoning with his first true encounter with wildlings through Craster. Gonna throw it out there, Craster is very much out there when it comes to wildlings. He's, like, very, very off the beaten path. Not all of them. Hashtag not all wildlings.

You know he's watched so much NASCAR. I know. Like, he- hashtag not all wildlings. It's when you see Craster is all I'm saying, Jon. But, like, as john learns to set aside his disgust for him however deserved because as he learns throughout his chapters like the night's watch also needs every person that it can get to fight for the side of the living when these other wars come and like this is the argument that he tries to show the rest of the night's

watch in those later chapters especially in dance especially when Jon comes to see the Free Folk as a people with many diverse cultures, not just Craster's, who are all as human and necessary as he. Yeah. Mormont explains Mance Rayder is gathering an army in the Frostfangs, which is why all the villages are empty. They had similar information from Dennis Malister, but now there's a where from Craster. John asks if Raider is making a city or an army. Mormont says that's the question, and that they must know how many men of fighting age there are. Based on the geography of the Frostfangs and the level of it being hospitable, that can only mean Mce is going to strike south

and john shares that wildlings have invaded before there's raymond redbeard there's bail the bard horned lord uh gendel and gorn the brother kings right just putting that out there yeah oh the brother kings interesting uh jorun, who blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from Earth. The Night's Watch stopped them all, and if they failed, Winterfell stopped them after that. But the Watch isn't what it once was. All of the strength kind of has been broken, especially down at Winterfell with its Lord dead and the King south. Yeah, the Wall, as we see, ends up being strong enough to hold off the wildlings um in the next book is it because there's a stark there i don't know tin foiling but mormon said

still rings true with the threat of these other wars i'm never gonna let it go the wall's not gonna be enough winterfell is also still weekend and i don't know that it all wraps up at Winterfell like in the show no it could I think it should go south I don't know I think it's gotta get real bad before it gets good Mormont says

that they need to find Mance they need to fight him and they need to stop him 300 thought Jon against the fury of the wild his fingers opened and closed that's a way to close the chapter yeah that's just a i love it i love it it's a great it's just a great rhythm it's like when you play guitar a lot of songs if you finger pick songs it will have a lower note like your lower

e for example that you just like pick rhythmically in the background and it keeps the rhythm of the story and for john that says open close open close yes i love that especially because it's a song of ice and fire that's john two and three wow two chapters it's gone a hot second I'm really excited to be back at it with you in the books and to dive deep especially as John's chapters start ramping up here yeah they're about to get very

chunky so as we get into them yes chunky chapters as we get into these chapters I'm sure we will break them apart when necessary. Yes. All of you can keep track when those chapters and those episodes come out. Be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, on Acast, Stitcher, or on Podbean.

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our last one. We did a really fun live stream. It was a blast. And we want to keep that tradition of live streams up. We will be coming up with something soon enough for a live stream. However, our next stretch goal, I'm so excited about this. Our next stretch goal is once we hit $2,000 a month, about this our next stretch goal is once we hit two thousand dollars a month we are going to get together and cook some recipes from the a feast of ice and fire companion book the semi-official game of thrones cookbook if you haven't checked it out it is by the creators over at inlet look crossroads and highly recommend it i've been making recipes for it but eliana and i love cooking and we want to do a fun livestream event with you guys, so we're gonna do

a Feast for Feast, and we are going to make some foods and talk about the best book ever, A Feast for Crows. Yes. We're very excited. Please help us make our dreams come true. It's probably gonna be a while, and we'll definitely do some livestreams in between that

time. However, I don't know. We just want to cook and have fun yeah it'll be like the food network or rachel ray or imagine us being like man i wish i was gonna say like chrissy teigen actually her name's pronounced like taigan she's my hero chrissy taiga and come on our podcast oh my god i would be so excited. She's my hero. She's so funny and great. And cooks. Anyway. If you got us to our stretchable, we're gonna get Chrissy.

No, we're not. That'd be amazing. Anyways. What if we did? What if we did? Chrissy Teigen. Come on our podcast. LaCroix sponsor us.. La Croix sponsor us. La Croix sponsor us. As always, I have been one of your hosts. You know me as Chloe.

Catch me on the internet as Liza Narber or Liza Narber Gold. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana, also known as Glass Table Girl. Goodbye. Bye.