Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 60 - ASOS Jon IV/V

Episode Date: July 26, 2019

The girls talk about Homeward Bound, and if you click your heels three times, there's no place like mutton and salt cod.  Oh, yeah, and there's a little bit of... betrayal. --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric   Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl  Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor  Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com 

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, episode 60, Jon Snow and a Storm of Swords, chapter 4, chapter 5. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You know me from the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Twitter, Tumblr, and LizaandArborGold.com, my blog. And I am Eliana, another one of your hosts you might know me as glass table girl over on reddit or on the maester monthly podcast maybe you know me as arithmetric over on the internet we have figured out who coley is everyone yeah last week we were very confused was the last week it was last week we were we were confused we didn't know who coley

was they were very familiar sounding it is our friend james hello james thank you so much for the pod bean comment yes much less confusing now well there were less ease and also i never look at the actual handle i'm like oh yes james he looks like he's popping his collar all the time and that's how i know him on twitter oh yeah now that you say that i don't know yeah he's like doing a thing in his picture right that's my my brain muscle photographic memory and i'm like yeah that's james yeah that's james yeah hi james uh we did get a really cute review from kitty mayhem who is having a great time listening they said it was a glorious wave to ride with us uh finding hidden meanings in george's intentions and analytics from all the different characters.

They are excited to read his dark materials because, like me, they are unsullied. They have to get the books. And, of course, they pointed out the difference. The British and Commonwealth countries name of the first book, different the u.s version northern lights as opposed to golden compass i'm not allowed to call it northern lights that makes me pretentious if i do that because i'm from america i have to stick to just calling it the golden compass thank you kitty thank you for writing in from australia i like your emojis yes we have to call out that we were left five sparkling star emojis and a cat emoji.

Oh, also it said Australia with an Australian flag emoji. So. Emojis are important to Eliana. They're also important to you. Sometimes people think it's me on the account and they're like, there are emojis, it must be Eliana.

And I'm like, Chloe also speaks in emoji. she too is hip with the kids with the youths fellow children the youths i don't understand youth culture speaking of youth culture we got a comment also on apple podcast from 420 ned stark 69 dragon killer 666 the title of this of this review is I Laughed, I Cried, I Left the Stove On. I'm just gonna read it aloud. There's a lot of feelings going on

in this. Girls Gone Canon is a truly excellent podcast. I started listening after hearing one or both of the hosts featured on History of Westeros. I don't know if it was Chloe or Eliana. It was a crazy summer. Lots of crying. Are you okay? Any whoozle. Chloe and Eliana are hysterical. They provide valuable insight into

the most important characters of this fandom, like strong Belwos in Jera's Drinkwater and their chapter-by-chapter analysis for each character brings new life to the books based on the smash hbo television series five dark stars out of five man it was really hard to keep a straight face reading those last few lines i like cracked up trying to read this to chloe earlier i hope that you aren't doing a lot of crying this summer 420 ned stark 69 dragon killer 666 comma, I hope that you're having a good summer. And I'm so glad that you gave us five Dark Stars out of five. Thank you. I mean, I understand we're coming out of Cancer season, the reflective period of the moon, you know.

But now, as I was reading from an article by The Cut, we are entering Leo season, a time of energy and drama, everyone. And you know, as a fellow fire sign I appreciate that I'm an Aries yep but I do want to say that we're also Mercury's retrograde I know it's really really rough obvious that it's like I'm having a very harsh retrograded it's it's not a great way to start off Leo season everyone the secret behind the girls gone canon chemistry is that we are both fire signs that's

that's kind of a secret to life fire signs do really well together we thrive fire consumes we do a lot of consumption on this podcast so we did get one last review

I want to mention personally is very simple I like it it's a I like this podcast it's by Moose they have a lot of O's I didn't really want to say the O's I just wanted to like sound them out.

They say, I listen lots and the girls are fun and good. Thank you. Thank you, Moose. Sorry, I said it wrong. Thank you, Moose. Thank you for respecting Moose's name. Yes, it's important for honoring Moose's. One last review before we leave i want to give a shout out to pirate diesel finn

for their review talking about relating to being a tween girl and sansa's chapters and also loving para larvae oh we love our para larvae we do we're gonna talk about our para larvae again always yeah absolutely especially today there's definitely some Paralarve stuff to get into Paralarve parallels yes Parallelve yeah next next lel thing okay moose

without further ado Eliana will you bring us into our lightning round if it'll make them excited about the first one Daenerys 3 you should never talk badly about people in a different language because it's rude and you can get burnt danny takes s for and quayth gives her directions turn right into the lake that's kind of how i feel like those directions go i feel like it's just like a corporeal gps voice sans 3. After a final fitting for a special gown gifted to her by

the Queen, Sansa's delight turns to horror, and she is made to wed Tyrion. Arya 5. Harwin tells Arya of the Battle of the Bells, and the Brotherhood serves justice to Northmen in cages who have committed various crimes.

The Brotherhood delivers a new familiar captive. I'm excited to get into Jon IV. It's a pretty short chapter. Jon watches free folk fall to their death while climbing the wall, and as he and Ygritte ascend, she cries out in frustration to him. They never found the Horn of Joramun, and now they must make the treacherous ascent. The chapter begins

with john waking and ghost is nowhere to be found john's hoping that his wolf has heeded his warning to head to castle black but really he's going to san francisco he's not it a homeward bound this is so early for me to fire you in an episode I do like that the question is posed in John 4 of did ghost go south like where did ghost go and it even comes up in John 5

you know is this ghost coming to my aid but it's not and it frames that the ultimate answer we get in john 5 we're going to get to there's a some really cool framework there and something that george has actually followed up on in fire and blood wait which thing well eliana if you wait to the next chapter john took a breath of the crisp morning air and allowed himself to hope the eastern sky was pink near the horizon and pale gray higher up. The sort of the morning still hung in the south, the bright white star in its hilt

blazing like a diamond in the dawn, but the blacks and grays of the darkling forest were turning once again to greens and golds, reds and russets. And above the soldier pines and oaks and ash and sentinels stood the wall, the ice pale and glimmering beneath the dust and dirt that pocked its surface it's obviously there's a lot of language this comes after brand two a little bit ago so little heavy-handed but the whole sort of the morning and stories and all of that uh the language is speculated about here really often whether it's the anchor for your tinfoil arthur dane is core and half hand theory or if it's just direct foreshadowing for the battle of the dawn to come or even that azura high language that surrounds john and his

role against the others it could be a direct tag to the danes and it could be foreshadowing their role in the future books even or what their role could have been without the five year gap and their role in the Battle of the Dawn but I'm not sure I'm not sure in the end it might have just been some really beautiful imagery however George capitalizes

sword in the morning you know the first letter of each word there is capitalized so that's like john's looking at it like it's that legendary mega sword i don't know it's probably just like a retcon and the five-year gap destroyed whatever he thought it might grow into i don't think it's gonna go like it did in the show but the idea of something with like a bright jewel in the hilt, right, reminds me of Arya's dagger in the show. But that's red and not a bright white star. It's pretty different.

I do think that there's just like so much reforging language in the books in general of like things being reforged and swords being forged. And you have those twin swords and steel out of ice. It's a metaphor. There's got to be more. There's got to be more. There's got to be more of that mysticism and that forging. And I don't know, there's got to be something. Something magical has to happen in these books. I can't just subscribe to whatever we saw on TV.

There's magic. Real magic. But we all know that ice being split into two, turns out, was Brandon and Sansa each becoming a monarch. Anyway. Oh my god. It really was, though. I was gonna say that we know that ice splitting in two became part of a very popular song.

When two become one? Originally it was just Ice Baby. Now it's Ice Ice Baby. Oh, wow. That's the song of ice, not ice and fire, though. The song of ice, ice and fire though the song of ice ice baby and fire the manor sends a dozen men west and a dozen men east

to climb and scout for rangers and the fens carry horns to alert their fellow free folk of watchmen the rest of the wildlings though fall in below Jarl, John, and Ygritte and this has actually become the moment for young raiders to gain glory.

It's the same thing we're seeing across all the different point of views that are in war. Literal green boys on the Reach, soldiers in the Riverlands, soldiers in the North, they're all trying to distinguish themselves under what will be a brand new world, a brand new

life, under a new king and new rule uh even look at the riverlands you have vance and piper you have brienne suitors molin door in the battle of the black water etc if these men don't die young and valiantly they're guaranteed prestige and possibly lands especially since real estate in war looks pretty good afterwards right think of black water of tywin and the tyrells just handing out titles if they survive and assimilate to get a piece of the cheese like massy did or any other people then they're good or they turn into scavengers like hyl hunt or war turns them into broken men which we see the direct result of a storm of swords in

a feast for crows it's one of the biggest themes in a feast for crows that war makes broken men which we see the direct result of a storm of swords in a feast for crows uh it's one of the biggest themes in a feast for crows that war makes broken men of us all i love that you've shown how i mean they grew up north of the wall but they are still in many ways those green young men and they can break they're the same as those south of the wall. But, speaking of the wall, they reach the wall, and it's in a location where it's both large and tall, you know, as it is, being an enormous wall. Fun fact, George has said

that he made the wall too high once he saw the Hoover Dam. Turns out 700 feet was high, and George has a bad understanding of measurements, but fair enough brandon the builder it's fantasy yeah but he also like realized he's like oh well shit brandon the builder had laid his huge foundation blocks along the heights wherever feasible and hereabouts the

hills rose wild and rugged and his uncle benjamin actually had once told him that the wall was a sword to the east but a snake to the west. A freak in the sheets. What is it? How does this go? A lady in the streets, a freak in the sheets. There we go. Yep.

That's not what Benjen told him. That's exactly what Benjen told him about the wall. I think it is. Oh my god. Jon thinks that he sees that now as the wall slopes up and down, dipping into the valleys and out. Interestingly enough, is that kind of like his quaithe right there? Dany just had that quaithe moment of her telling her, you know, to go forward, you must go back.

To go west, you must go east, blah, blah, blah. Sail here, do this. Left hand blue, right foot red. But Benjen told him the sword to the east and a snake to the west is the wall so i don't know it's just interesting like the directions especially because they're pretty much a couple chapters apart and i mean the next bit uh a danny chapter directly follows the next chapter not not after this chapter but the next one so george deliberately thinks about where he puts these chapters is all i'm saying so i'm curious if that's something similar oh he definitely does

and i'd be really excited to talk about that in our a feast for feasts episode yes i have strong thoughts about the composition of that book positive thoughts yes yes jarl though chooses to assault at the ridge where a third of the wall was stone and ice, and wood and brush concealed them well. It's pretty smart, to be honest. Jon realizes, though, that the Thans had actually never seen the wall before, and it frightens them. Jon then thinks on how the wall is said to be the end of the world,

and he agrees it is, but it's just which end is all and where you stand. And where do I stand stand john did not know to stay with egret he would need to become a wildling heart and soul if he abandoned her to return to his duty the magnar might cut her heart out and if he took her with him assuming she would go which was far from certain well he could scarcely bring her back to castle black to live among the brothers a deserter and a wildling could expect no welcome anywhere in the seven kingdoms so this makes me think of two things one it makes me think of is this how rhaegar felt when he and lyanna stole away from the tourney at no it wasn't the tourney at Harrenhal but like in the Riverlands and then also it kind of reminds me of

Sam and Gilly a little but Sam's not a deserter but it's just like you know a random brother of the Night's Watch and a wildling and she has a baby what could it mean Jarl which side note I just want you to know that every time you say Jarl, I think of Jarlsburg cheese.

Oh, good. You can call him Jarl. I just think it's funnier to call him Jarl. No, I like it. I like it better. He's now Jarl forever. So Jarl's raiders are not impressed by the wall. They've done this many times before.

Okay. Apparently. Wow. wall they've done this many times before okay apparently wow uh the oldest is 25 and two of them are younger than john they're all lean and strong and remind him of stone snake rip well maybe he might be alive maybe no i mean probably not but they wrap rope across themselves in preparation for their climb strapping doe skin boots on they have spikes and bones in their boots for climbing uh they just like kick the wall to try to get it in there antlers sharpened to be ice axes yarrow tells the men mance promises them castle forge steel and a slot in his newest mixtape about the climb when he drops it and he tells them up and the others take the hindmost the others take them all thought john as he watched them scramble up the steep slope of the ridge and vanish beneath the trees john then recalls many of the wildlings the watch had chased down from the wall. Then a hue and a cry would go up. Ravens

would fly, and as often as not, the night's watch would hunt them down and hang them before they could get back with their plunder and stolen women. Jarl would not make that mistake, Jon knew, but he wondered about Stir. The Magnar is a ruler, not a raider.

He may not know how the game is played. Stolen woman, quote unquote. What could it mean? How much of this is just like propaganda? Just saying. I'm just saying. What?

Just saying. It's a smear campaign. So John watches the wildlings ascend. They start at a tree before they go anywhere near the ice they're only 300 foot up the feet they're only 300 feet up the wall and the first 300 feet is stone honestly i'm very impressed at yarl i think that this was all very good ideas on his part it's just luck bad luck and john actually wonders how, as in the Night's Watch, let any of these trees get this fucking high this close to the wall. And it really hammers home once more how

undermanned the Watch is, especially as we near that battle with Castle Black. Because had it all been staffed, had the entire wall been staffed, A, the trees wouldn't have grown so close, and B, people would have noticed, oh look, there are wildlings climbing the wall and they would have been cut sooner yeah who do we root for i don't know humanity i do manatee i do root for huge manatees to be honest so yarrow begins to stab iron stakes into the ice for climbing the others follow not those others the other wild things some thens had no tree to climb in their area so they had to make footholds from the start feeling really lost as they start climbing uh grig the goat is leading a team on the far right. A man named Arak leads on the left and Jarl's team is across the center.

The magnar is complaining about the speed of the climb and Jon's like, okay, sure. Like that's a little foolish. He remembers the climb through Skirling Pass, which is not the wall. That had been stone, not ice, and he can't imagine trying to go quickly up the ice whatsoever and worse than that the day is super warm super moist so the climbers alone

are causing the wall to weep which is a fancy way to say melt on the surface you know and like melt mostly art though it's weeping the wall's weeping yes and john thinks that whatever else the wildlings are they're brave and again the way that john thinks of and interacts with the magnar and the thens makes this question like what's so great about the westerosi anyway because clearly john thinks that stirs being pretty foolish and demanding that the men go faster especially because you, you're just here sitting cushy on your ass down on the ground, right? And, like, the same man

that John thinks is cold and would have been easier to betray than the other free folk, like, is acting very much like the other Westerosi lords, right? Sending other men to go do the hard work of dying for them, the dangerous shit, while they benefit from an easier climb to the top

yeah and that is exactly how corporate america works you guys and in this essay i will so john secretly hopes that steer is correct that the watch is waiting for them if the gods are good a patrol will chance by and put an end to this. No wall can keep you safe, his father had told him once as they walked the walls of Winterfell. A wall is only as strong as the men who defend it. The wildlings might have 120 men, but four defenders would be enough to see them off with a few well-placed arrows and perhaps a pail of stones okay as soon as i saw this part of the passage all i could think of was like mufasa dad like everything the light touches is yours john snow so mostly that pebble over there on the ground because you're an orphan and

basically though this is what castle black does later though, right? Like they have, okay, more than just a pail of stones, but the Castle Black guys have pails of stones. They have well-placed arrows. That's how they defeat them mostly. It's the etchings of the plan later on. They just barely hold them off, but I just realized something that just hit me. I don't know why I've never connected this.

It's like pretty fucking obvious. Based on what Ned is saying, walls aren't going to protect you. Dany's easily able to take Astapor. The walls don't protect the masters. And then later on in Meereen, it's kind of like the opposite of here

where they're going over the wall. In Meereen they go under the wall through the sewers. It's things. This is a thing okay that's all no men of the watch appear uh john does not get his wish they are not waiting to ambush them and yarrow's team of climbers hit a very bad spot of ice, they send chunks of ice cascading down and by the time they recover, Grig the goat, who has a fantastic name, maybe a goat name,

has caught up with them. Grig's section zigzags. Grighan, take notes. Damn, rip. And make holes all throughout the wall, which is eroded and big enough for a man to hide in. And Jon thinks that like damn their legs

must be so numb by now from like kicking at this like very cold wall and trying to make strong holds. And yeah, probs. He listens for the horn to warn of rangers and it never comes.

Hour six strolls by and Jarl has gotten past Grig again. It's like a little race watching them go up the wall. Magnar jokes Mance's pet wants a sword at Jarl. And the sun is high in the sky. The glare is too much to look at on the crystal. And the men suddenly no longer edge upward, but they're edging side to side. Same with our hearts. up again, Jarl and his team are gone. They're just gone. A huge hole is where they had been. Same with our hearts. The wall defends

itself, Jon thought as he pulled Ygritte back to her feet. They found Jarl in a tree, impaled upon a splintered branch and still roped to the three men who lay broken beneath him. One was still alive, but his legs and spine were shattered and most of his ribs as well. Mercy! He said when they came upon him.

One of the Thens smashed his head in with a big stone mace. The Magner gave orders and his men began to gather fuel for a pyre. This is an interesting passage. There's a lot in here. There's some stuff that I even saw in season eight, and we're going to come back to that. There's a lot of parallel here. There's some stuff that like I even saw in season 8 and we're gonna come back to that. There's a lot of parallel here. It reminds me so much of all the different mercy that we've been

chasing from a Game of Thrones with the child's mercy for Ned in A Clash of Kings Sansa at the Blackwater with Sandor and Arya in their travels on the road. Just so much of mercy that we're chasing and it comes back to this moment. And it also kind of

reminds me of the slaves in Marine and the Battle of Fire in the Barristan Winds of Winter chapter that we've talked about. Minor spoilers, but if you haven't read the Winds of Winter sample chapter, it has to do with Little Pigeon, one of the best characters of David

Benioff and D.B. Weiss's creation in the hit TV show that the book series was based on, Game of Thrones. You can watch it on HBO. If you pay $15.99 a month, you can get... Anyway, so, pay me HBO. You shall.

I wish. It kind of reminds me because they're all roped together, right? All these people are roped together and stuck together. So when one falls, the person you're attached to is pretty much fucked. And it reminds me of how the slaves in the Battle of Fire are chained together like little pigeons. They're all chained on like stilts and they have a marabou feather boa. And they're all chained together in a row, in a column and row, fighting.

Which is like you're on stilts and you're fighting in a war and everything's on fire this is fine but yeah that that reminds me of that a lot it reminds me of uh just having the whole universe against you it is fascinating though because like it's just because the whole chunk of wall falls down, right? Because this strange method of tying each other to one another kind of like saves them at first. We can see like, oh yes, there's logic behind this initially, which I think was useful. Like it's good that we were shown that.

There's a lot of language in here though, where the free folk and what they say eerily echo some of the other phrases in the story. Like you're pointing out how this idea of mercy comes up here and is echoed throughout A Storm of Swords and Arya's and Sansa's stories in general. But there's stuff in this chapter and later, along with that mercy, like when Ygritte says,

all men must die later. And it's spooky, but it's obviously just like, I don't know, meaning themes, shit like that. Yeah. Made the others take you. And also with you. Lift up your hearts, we've lifted them up to the Lord. They burn the dead, and Grig the goat reaches the top of the wall.

Five survive the climb at the end of this total of that original group. So of Jarl and Grig and grig and erox group five people survive that's egret tells john she hates the wall and asks if he can feel the cold of it and he's like it's made of ice egret of course it's cold and she's like no john it's made of blood you know nothing john snow and there's a lot to talk about in here of what like this wall means for Ygritte and her people and how many men have died impaled on trees or spikes or from the cold or from slipping and breaking their neck and back like how many of her people have died trying to come over the wall and trying to escape the others or escape you know this life that they've built for

themselves here that is unrewarding un unfulfilling, and dangerous. And, you know, people put up walls, trap things on the other side like bad things, and good people get stuck there as well all the time. So, really just interesting talking point. I agree. It is, and it turns

the wall, like we've been told, right, for a long time, that it feels alive, and it turns it into this very hateful presence, this malevolent thing. And then, you know, Jon and Ygritte climb this thing and by sunset two thenns have died on the way to the top. They almost fell a few times, it was midnight by the time they reached the top. Ygritte's upset though because she almost fell three times and she felt again like the wall was trying to shake her off personifying the wall the worst is behind us john tried to sound confident don't be frightened he tried to put an arm around her egret slammed the heel of her hand into his chest so hard it stung, even through his layers of wool, mail, and boiled leather.

It wasn't frightened. You know nothing, Jon Snow. Why are you crying then? Not for fear. She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world and never found the horn of Jormund to bring this cold thing down kind of

confirms that the horn that was in that sack and cache of obsidian that's likely the real horn then right? I mean yes it's with Sam the horn darn too bad Sam's going to Right? I mean, yes. It's with Sam. The horn.

Darn. Too bad. Sam's going to Old Town. Oh man, who could possibly be close to Old Town that would want to blow a horn? Are you saying that Euron Greyjoy is horny? Isn't he?

Doot doot. Doot doot. Okay. There's also the things that isn't he? Doot doot. Doot doot doot. Doot doot. Okay. There's also the things that, like, Mance chooses and hides from his people, coming back to the idea of, like, finding the horned knot, because he kind of wonders- he thinks that

they found it, right? But he kind of speculates on whether or not it's wise to blow it, even like, risking the lives of these people for like his weird plan uh it's probably better i guess that they didn't try to blow it in retrospect maybe maybe not who knows what would have happened now well i guess they would have just been pretty fucking disappointed and then also then we'd have less mysteries in the book and less warrants to be like oh what is this the series would have ended in a dance with dragons we'd have less mysteries in the book and less warrants to be like oh what is this

the series would have ended in a dance with dragons we would have been done be like oh well shit guess that wasn't it but man's understands just as well as egret what the wall is built on uh all of that blood and all those tears that are weeping from it and knows that tearing it down means that yeah sure the free folk can cross to the other side of it but he also realizes that this wall that's killing them right now could very well be their salvation if they can just make it to the other side because you know something's got to hold back the others is obviously his hope so again the wall is this it's that duality that you see so often in a song of ice and fire maybe it's a crazy thought but because of all the blood that goes into that wall

do you think that sustains the magic of the wall it could i mean like they what there's a lot of language that we've been seeing in this especially with those ideas of sacrifice right like the 79 sentinels are buried in the wall you have a fucking what's his name the guy that i think of his axe the body spray but he's not the one who was digging through the wall we just talked about ice axe arson it doesn't make sense arson's a totally different thing and he's buried in the wall and I think that's something that's in it but it also reminds me then of like those horrors of like what went into making the Great Wall of China right like there's blood

in making these really majestic works of man but it's terrible only death can pay for life yep i guess that brings us to our next lightning round between john four and john five and storm of swords first we have jamie four jamie's infected wound has brought him a fever and he helps ward off harm coming to brienne later he arrives at Harrenhal and thinks on Vargo Hote and how a Lannister always pays his debts.

Tyrion IV. A singer threatens Tyrion and Shae's anonymity and finds himself in a bowl of brown. A Tywin obtains Valyrian steel and orders tyrian to consummate his marriage also things look bad for the night's watch but we already knew that we knew that oh we know speaking of them in sam 2 44 survivors from the fist of the first men have made their way to shelter at craster's keep where provisions and tensions are getting pretty harsh. A mutiny ensues, writ in Craster and Mormont's

blood. Sam and Gilly escape. Aria 6. Beric Dondarrion gives Sandor Clegane a trial by light. Catelyn 4. After Hoster Tully's funeral, the Stark

faction learns they've lost a third of their infantry at Duskendale. Refusing Catalin's pleas to make peace, Rob makes plans to keep his crown. Davos4. Davos is raised to lord of the Rainwood. Admiral of the Seven Seas and Hand of the King. Yay! Yay! Good job, Dad.

Other Dad. Jamie 5. Jamie and Brienne take a nice hot bath where they talk about Jamie's crimes before meeting Roose Bolton and his new wife, Walda Frey. Also, no alarms going off that Roose Bolton suddenly married Walda Frey. No one? I know, right? But I mean, like, she is a precious cinnamon bun. I do love that Walda Frey.

Yeah. Tyrion 5. like she is a precious cinnamon bun i do love fat waldo fray yeah tyrian five tyrian is sent to meet prince doran martell but it's the red viper who has arrived instead with 300 joiner's fears and many tales to tell oh and they thirst for vengeance he is thirsty oh isn't he daddy oberyn is v thirsty davos is dad but oberyn is daddy there's a difference people keep up aria seven aria watches sandor walk away a free man and learns she is to be ransomed to her family gendry joins the brotherhood and he's knighted by Beric. Later, the Hound attempts to retrieve his gold, but he's sent away. Ellipsis. Bran III, Bran and his friends land at Queen's Crown during an awful storm and they hear men outside. men outside. That's interesting that you say that, Eliana, because in John 5 in A Storm of Swords,

John, Ygritte, and the Magnar and his men land at Queen's Crown as well, and they test him once more. But John balks. Bawk, bawk. And John attempts to turn his cloak once more. John and

Ygritte walk along leaves and pine needles, and Ygritte asks, like, who built this ancient and empty brown tower? And she wonders if it wasn't some king. Brandon's gift had been farmed for thousands of years, but as the watch dwindled, there were fewer hands to plow the fields,

tend the bees, and plant the orchards, so the wild had reclaimed many a field and hall in the new gift there had been villages and hold fasts whose taxes rendered in goods and labor helped feed and clothe the black brothers but those were largely gone as well there's a little bit of that condescension here that john has with egret um and And it comes into play semi-often because he just thinks like, she's so wild.

She has no clue what she's saying because she's just so wild. So wild. Wow, she could just never be normal because she's just wild. And it is two different worlds, but it's interesting how it comes back because Ygritte says to him,

we were fools to leave such a castle. And John was like, it's a tower house. Winterfell has three times as many towers as this broken down, busted up keep has Ygritte. And Ygritte's like, I don't believe you because they don't have giants, so they can't build this high on their own. And Jon thinks of Brandon the Builder, but he thinks, I don't want to confuse her. Shut up, Jon. Yeah, he was thinking that brandon yeah apparently brandon the builder did use giants but whatever also it's like just because you can't

explain your magical story that well john like just be better at storytelling she could understand you you understand her stories why can't she understand yours i'm gonna play like great others advocate here though and talk about i don't know i kind of feel mixed about this because on one hand yeah as you're saying john's totally being pretty condescending in all this but it's interesting that it starts happening once he comes back to this side of the wall now that they're like on his turf and suddenly he feels like he knows the things on this side of the wall, as opposed to when he didn't know anything on the other side, right? And you can totally see, though, that the way that he feels that Ygritte doesn't understand things, Ygritte kind of feels that way about Jon, too, hence her always saying, like, you know nothing. And I think that it's just, like, they're both from different cultures, and Jon's also experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance right now between like who he is and a lot of culture shock of course um and it's like not

exactly the same but there are definitely ways in which like my family and I don't always see eye to eye on things and we give up trying to explain things to each other and clash and how we understand the world being from like different cultures me having grown up in america and them having grown up in a different country but like john like he's caught in the middle in a way here right as the end was and it's interesting because you see that in a lot of the other character stories i think danny's story is a little like this as a someone who grows up not really understanding any culture that they're from very strange and only learning it through third-hand stories but there's other stuff at play here right and i don't think it's wrong to read john as being condescending but there's

obviously like this a lot of inner turmoil going on here of him trying to rectify where he stands and obviously there's like a whole battle on the line and that doesn't really happen between me and my family right absolutely no i i get that for sure but i do think he's being just a touch condescending because like you said yeah if you read it this way he's a trying to disconnect he's trying to disengage from her very much so uh he's trying to just like keep the roles as far apart as he can and at the same time that he's doing that i can see i can see some of the parallels coming into play later on in other relationships he might get into and that whole different culture not knowing the westerosi way

him slash knowing slash the westerosi way uh if he had a girlfriend that may or may not be coming from overseas to live in Westeros and take back her family house I could just see him maybe being short with her if this is how he's treating another girl from another country oh yeah definitely and definitely be like no you don't understand how things work here yeah like Danny that's not That's not what we do, Danny. Oh my god. So, John tells Ygritte of the walls in Oldtown

that are even higher than these. He could tell she did not believe him. If I could show her Winterfell, give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones, we could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the great hall and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools and love beneath the hot tree while the old gods watched over us.

The dream was sweet, but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the king in the north. He was a snow, not a stark, bastard, oathbreaker, and turned cloak. So dramatic, but now it's kind of like warranted for him. Yeah. Might be after we could come back here and live in that tower, she said. Would you want that, Jon Snow? After?

After. The word was a spear thrust. After the war. After the conquest. After the wildlings break the wall. His lord father had once talked about raising new lords and settling them in the abandoned holdfast as a shield against wildlings. The plan would have required the watch to yield back a large part of the gift, but his uncle benjen believed the lord commander could be one around so long as the new lordlings paid taxes to castle black rather than winterfell it is a dream for spring though lord eddard had said even the promise of land will not lure men north with winter coming on my heart I love this song. We are gonna have... Chloe's got a lot of good thoughts, but before that,

quick side note, is the language of running away to live in a tower as Ygritte proposes, and for things like after the war, we can be together, whatever. Another thing that's reminiscent of Lyanna and Rhaegar running to live in their Tower of Joy and, you know, like Rhaegar does things like, things are gonna change when I

come back after the war. Lol. Well, something we hear in this very chapter. Many a night he lay with Ygritte warm beside him, wondering if his lord father had felt this confused about his mother, whoever she had been. Probs. Yeah,

absolutely. And I feel like this is very similar language to what we saw in season 8 of the hit TV show that the books are based off of, Game of Thrones. We will not be stopped. I wish I would stop. I wish someone would stop me, but all of you keep encouraging

it. I'm an enabler. I think there's a lot to be gleaned in this chapter and in this passage especially of Ned's game plan and we hear later this chapter is very connected. It has Queen Alysanne and her visit to the north and her gifting

that new gift to the Watch. I think that's there on purpose. I've done a lot of talking about Sansa as a good Queen Alysanne-esque character holding woman's court and just a lot of their features and the things they do. Very similar. And there are a lot of thoughts with the Dream of Spring. This really frames that Ned wanted to resettle the gift and his children.

What are they going to do? They're there to carry out the end of his legacy, right? Or to bring his legacy full circle. Queen Alysanne and Queen Sansa, if the show's to be believed, which I mean, George said the end game was canon, so I'm going to go ahead and say it is. And Sansa as the queen in the north probably will help resettle the gift, especially with some help from Jon, I'd imagine, who has rallied the wildlings to his cause. If he does have to go north and be a part of the Great North or still

lead the Night's Watch in the end or live in exile with the Night's Watch, he would be in charge and needing tax money to upkeep the watch. And resettling that new gift might just be the way to go, especially with a lot of new wildling families like Alice Karstark's new husband,

Sigorn of the Thens. Just some ideas. Just spitballing, you know? That's definitely a thought. And there's another Allie who does something similar with resettling kind of after war. After the dance, Allie Blackwood, who proposes, hey, all these random Northmen who I guess are down here now,

I guess we can just put them together with these other women who lost their husbands and they can just revitalize the riverlands yeah it's a really just a recurring theme especially in the history of a song of ice and fire's prehistory and everything we've learned from fire and blood that as silly as it sounds to be all oh making, making matches, making marriages, it's very important. You have to have people that have kids, and kids that are healthy and strong that eat the grain and the harvest that

has been stored for months from winter and during spring for, you know, them to grow, and grow those bitches up so they can make stuff and fight stuff and do stuff for you. That's how your civilization runs in these times. So definitely a big focus on it for a reason. Jon thinks, though, regarding his father,

that Eddard might have actually given him one of these castles. You know, had Eddard lived and Jon not joined the Night's Watch, there's like a big stipulation. There's a couple of things here, Jon. I love the line. Lord Eddard was dead, however. His brother Benjen lost. The shield they dreamt together would never be forged.

So, again, obvious nod that that shield is gonna be forged someday. Rob slash Jon and Bran slash Rickon. Lord Eddard was dead, however. His brother Benjen lost. So Jon and Bran? Rob and Bran? Rob Rickon. Lord Eddard was dead, however. His brother Benjen lost. So, Jon and Bran?

Rob and Bran? Rob Rickon? Jon Rickon? I'm just saying. Some interesting thoughts. Or, if you really want to go left field, Sansa and Jon and Bran. I mean, if Sansa's going to be helping forge the gift, and I'm sure King Bran might have some help in it. A lot of Sansa's language and imagery is associated

with shields. But also same with Jon. He's the shield that guards the realms of men. His honor. What's his honor? You know, worth against guarding the realm. Anyways, so yeah. Just some thoughts and I do want to circle back real quick to that quote

when Ygritte says, would you want that Jon Snow after to live in that tower and then after the word was a spear thrust after the war after the conquest i think we'll be coming back to that phrase eventually in our reading after later later yeah after the conquest yeah i think that after the conquest is quite interesting language because it's something you don't think of right necessarily associated with those wildlings but it is something you associate with maybe a conqueror yeah yeah interesting oh and a spear thrust eliana it's right there it's all right there he's been telling us this for so long and we were just like

we'll see we'll see what you write George and then he still hasn't so lol we'll see anyway John tells Ygritte that this land belongs to the watch and Ygritte angrily responds that no one fucking lives here dude

and John reminds her no one lives here because of the free folk raiding them and eager's like well maybe they should have stayed and fought then what do you think about that and john's like that's ridiculous because they were tired of being fucking raided and raped and stolen from and they're kidnapped and their daughters being kidnapped and all that stuff you know nothing john snow Jon Snow. Daughters are taken, not wives. You're the ones who steal. You took the whole world and built the wall to keep the free folk out. Did we? Sometimes Jon forgot how wild she was, and then she would remind him. How did that happen? The gods made the earth for all men to share. Only when the kings come with their crowns and steel swords,

they claimed it was all theirs. My trees, they said. You can't eat them apples. My stream. You can't fish here. My wood. You're not to hunt. My earth. My water. My castle. My daughter. Keep your hands away or I'll chop them off. Maybe if you kneel to me, I'll let you have a sniff. You call us thieves, but at least a thief has to be brave and clever and quick a kneeler only has to kneel i'm kind of offended at that because i'm just like technically in her words ned stark was a kneeler but we know why he knelt because he knelt for honor and for love so like in my head i'm like eager you don't know you know nothing listen oh maybe i'll condescend to you bitch but it's interesting also when you think about tor and stark and we'll think about that a little more deeply like in a bit this

month but like it's a difficult choice well and it all resounds back to that societal and feudal contract of what you're paying for and it it's like how today, like you and I, if I really, really wanted to go off the grid, it would take a lot of effort to get rid of all of my electronic connections, yada, yada, yada. But, you know, get off the grid, get out of the government circle, get, you know, no paycheck coming in you're farming you're doing this doing that but when you're paying for that societal contract and living in that society you're paying for that

protection and that's that feudal contract we talk about with the high lords and their small folk um and egret thinks that she doesn't have that kind of contract that she is she's got metro pcs and we have sprint you know what i mean like that's like the closest thing i tell you but you're still paying egret you're still paying 45 a month for unlimited while you're also like battling no service in cities yeah you could think she's like on that bitcoin shit we're over here and i think it's kind of apparent at this point that the books are definitely going in the direction that the show painted them um going right as far as egret being such a big analog for daenerys uh invading foreign armies hurting the people that jon loves wildness right

the targaryen fire equality versus Ygritte and then that tragic end in Jon turning his cloak once more back to what he will always be I just think it's a little obvious but it's also this is my favorite passage though that Ygritte has I would say I really like this passage and the main realm did make a world

and shut them out and it was unfair but they don't want to subscribe to that life that the king and queens of Westeros offer they would rather die in battle against the authorities than join the oppressors that they have so just some thoughts some thoughts and what you said about egret and of course danny and tying them together it reminds me of another line that john remembers in one of these chapters that corinne half-handed told him about how again fire is life but fire is also death and again it's like that duality of things in the way that the wall is protection but also a threat it's all in where you stand. Aha. Yes, Jon does think that. Yes, he does.

Jon also tells Ygritte that when her people come, they don't just take an apple or a fish. Because Harman Dog said in Rattleshirt, they just rage for fucking anything that they can touch. And it doesn't, it's not actually like that useful, right? He's like, they take spices and silks and all these fighteries. And also they take our women and then they bring them back beyond the wall. And Ygritte's like, well, I'd rather be stolen by a strong man than a weakling. So I don't see the issue here. And Jon tries to give her some nuance by describing different ways that a man who steals her could be too totally awful.

Yeah, he's like, well, Ygritte, your new boyfriend who stole you could drink too much and he could beat you savagely and they could stink really badly every time they tried to take you and she was like i just like pour water on him and flowers are for the bees anyways i don't care what he smells like he should be a man and also if he touched me i I would murder him. You know nothing, Jon Snow. And he thinks, I know one thing. I know that you're a wildling to the bone. It was easy to forget that sometimes when they were laughing together or kissing, but then one of them would say something or do something

and he would be suddenly reminded of the wall between their worlds. Wow, the wall between their worlds. I know, right? It's, uh, George, you wrote that. You did that. You put that wall. What does it mean?

Again, I know I've broken record here, but there's a lot of painting here of his future relationships. And I could see him just thinking it was easy to forget that sometimes about Dani when they're laughing together or kissing, but then when the fire takes her I wonder if it'll be

that but also it was easy to forget that she was his aunt when they were laughing together and kissing together I think it's gonna be something a little like that too we can come back to this later but I kind of think that it reminds me a little of the book

100 years of solitude and reminds me a little of the book 100 Years of Solitude. And there's a specter of incest that hangs over that story. And I'm just going to spoil it for everyone. Fast forward about 15 to 30 seconds if you don't want to be spoiled. But 100 Years of Solitude follows a story of a family. And a lot of them have same recurring names things like that they build up this like city and it ends when a nephew and his aunt unknowingly end up in a relationship together and then everything falls apart they know it's not okay yeah like then they found out and they're like well shit and then they had a child that was born kind of looking like a monster. But it had, like, a little pig's tail.

That's this, like, sign of incest. And then, like, ants carried its body away or something. Magical realism is a lot, everyone. It's great. It's actually one of my favorite books, I'm going to be honest. Would recommend if you haven't read it. You're selling it honestly really hard am i am i i mean i can sell it harder later so ecrit tells john a man can own a woman

or a knife but not both every girl learns that from their mother this line feels almost liana related in a way like robert and liiana vibes yeah I would agree with that um it reminds me of Liana and Robert especially because the person that John is describing very much sounds like Robert right and because of that it kind of reminds me of Robert and Circe as well like I'm not saying that Ygritte is right but you can kind of sympathize with what she's saying here and what she's saying here also kind of reminds me of how oberon raises daughters side note but you can also kind of sympathize then with how circe takes her course of action if you can see that logic or sympathize with what eager

to say because this language again it's a man who drinks too much and he beats his wife, right? That's the Robert that we see in the first book. And finally, years and years and years later, Circe uses Robert's own v knives to try and kill him in a couple of ways like goading him into a melee or then using his love of alcohol sorry and using his alcoholism as a way to lure him into an accident that is interesting I didn't really think about that yeah I like that added Cersei layer

it reminds me of the show quote when she says to him what could Lyanna stark's ghost do to either of us that we haven't done to each other i love that because i'm just like yeah john snow is what it's that's true it is and like i don't know it reminds me of like what vanessa was saying in the previous episode right like i mean for all the ways that we see how free but not free the free folk women are, there's some, like, weird ideas

on, uh, mating and courtship and sexual roles. Yeah, especially with Egert when she was telling John, like, you don't know anything, that's my brother, and he's like, okay. I just thought maybe you guys were close, it felt like it, it was a little weird. So, John's just really into people who are maybe brothers I just thought maybe you guys were close. It felt like it. It was a little weird.

Jon's just really into people who are maybe brothers or very close to one another. Honestly, maybe it's that incest tug. He can't help who he is. He's like, makes sense to me. He's a Stark and he's a Targaryen. Ygritte tells Jon men can't own the land any more

than they can own the sea or the sky. I think that's an interesting line because you have Daenerys owning the sky with her dragons. You have Euron owning the sea with his kraken or whatever he's raising. Spoilers, I guess. Technically, oops. And the land, which you could say is owned by Bran and Bloodraven, right? Like, they're in control with the children of the forest of the tree roots and the trees. So I just thought that was interesting that Ygritte Striep says, like, men can't own the land,

they can't own the sea, they can't own the sky, but you have all this magical autonomy happening in the background of just things happening that are magical that people don't see happening per se right away, but they're happening. There's a song song you're gonna be so mad when I say this

but a lot of how you've been describing everything and like this language reminds me of it uh the song starts out with like you think I'm an ignorant savage and you've been so many places I guess it must be so but still I cannot see if the savage one is me. And then, yeah, like the, you can't own all these things.

She's like, obviously, okay, you all know this song, right? You think you own whatever land you land on. The earth is just a dead thing you can claim. Not saying that- Are you trying to compare Song of Ice and fire to pocahontas the animated movie am i saying that maybe colors of the wind which was released in 1995 and therefore before a storm of swords might have influenced this maybe well you are in a song of ice and fire luminary so i'm just gonna let it slide. Jon thinks that

Ygritte is being very brave in talking about what they're going to do and how they're gonna win, but he lowers his voice and he tells her, Mance can't win this war, Ygritte. But she insists he can, and that Jon has never actually seen the Free Folk fight.

Jon thinks Wildlings fought like heroes or demons demons depending on who you talk to but it came down to the same thing in the end they fight with reckless courage every man out for glory kind of reminds me of the dothraki but okay interesting uh yep i was thinking that yep well yep i feel like there's many things that were on the same It's the same thing, Eliotta. It's like we do a podcast together. It's all the same thing. I'm so mad because it's all right there. Yep. It's like we're Maester Aemon. He's looking at us in our

faces the whole time. To go forward, we must go back. If we look back, we are lost. That's how we feel right now, everyone. Jon tells Ygritte that he knows that the Free Folk are fierce and brave. But discipline beats out bravery every time and in the end mance is gonna break with the rest of them and here it's like i mean what do you mean them don't you mean us we're a thing now we are an item i know you're

no crow like this is a thing we had had the talk. We're boyfriend and girlfriend. Exclusive. I swore you weren't a crow. So like, if you say you are, all of a sudden, you're breaking our contract. Like, don't fucking blow this for me. Right? Pretty much. She's like, that'd be super shitty. My life will be on the line when they finally broke apart egret was flushed you're mine she whispered mine as i'm yours and if we die we die all men must die john snow but first we'll live yes his voice was thick first we'll live man were going to have great makeup sex that night, but then they didn't because all the shit that happens later after happens. Also, this line makes me think of this thing that like we have friends like, I don't know, on this other podcast. It's like not a podcast, though. And they're really into this idea of men's lives have meaning, not their deaths from the Quentin chapters, if you'll remember them many, many moons ago.

I was just thinking today, it's been so long. I was thinking of this line, especially as we get to John's test in this chapter, actually, is kind of where I was thinking about it more. John doesn't really feel great about the choices he's making. He thinks, wildling to the bone, he thought again, with a sick, sad feeling in the pit of his stomach. It'll be interesting when that's changed to Targaryen to the bone, huh? But then you'd have to question about himself. Am I a dragon to the bone? What am I? Well, there you go. That'll be an interesting book and a half.

As he's questioning here. John knows he has to betray the wildlings sooner than later. Well, there you go. That'll be an interesting book and a half. As he's questioning here. John knows he has to betray the wildlings sooner than later. They descend the wall at Greyguard and Stier takes them through the depth of the gift, where no rangers will come across them. John thinks on Corrin's words about not balking. Balk. And he knows the free folks still do not trust him, and that his time to leave is running out. Corrin had told him to fight with them.

Once I shed a brother's blood, I am lost. I cross the wall for good then, and there's no crossing back. Or an aunt's? Once I shed a brother's blood? Or maybe your aunt's? I don't know. Oh, yes, that. Yeah, I mean, that is what it is, right?

It's when you kill someone. And we've kind of seen this at another point at the beginning of the series, or not the beginning, with a different character that we've done. Because we do this podcast where we do character rereads. Like, this is Jon thinking about his own crossing of the rubicon moment of when is the point of no return of crossing back because a song by sinfire does ask this of its characters often because as a reminder we saw it again in theon grayjoy's story as he came upon a river searching for bran and ricken and then was about to give up and decided, wait, I can come back with bodies that are maybe Bran and Rickon's, and that's his point of no return.

He decides to keep going forward and that he can't go back. George asks us, where is the point of no return? With Jaime Lannister, who commits a heinous crime at the beginning of A Game of Thrones, but who in the very same book as these chapters starts to gain his own chapters, and that question becomes the thing. And then he also asks it like through Arya, right? Like a child who's learning that, oh yeah, killing. We do that without even looking into a man's eyes to judge whether or not he deserves it. So Jon himself is wondering if he can go back and wonders how far gone he is as well. And that he wonders and questions this

is actually what differentiates him from Theon and the way Theon thinks about, oh, I had to do it. I was forced to do all these things before the Boltons take Winterfell because Theon's justifying his actions, whereas Jon ruminates upon them and wonders if he can ever atone for these. The Magnar keeps asking Jon questions about Castle Black's defenses, and Jon does his best to combat and evade those questions. And he wants to evade the truth because the truth, well, it's kind of awful, right? Castle Black has no real defenses currently. Jon doesn't even know who's alive after that slaughtered end of the ranging.

Mance has chosen the Fens to lead the attack for a reason. They're hardened warriors, and they're the best chance for the wildlings, especially against those that are holding the wall at Castle Black. We know who's at the wall right now, and you're talking about being led by

Blind Maester Aemon, One-Armed Donald Noy, Half-Blind Clydus, Deaf Dick Follard, the Drunk Septon, and a bunch of green boys. And of course, leading those men would be the pomegranate himself, Bowen Marsh. So, not your A-team, basically. Yeah, but... Not your Arthur Danes yeah with the exception of Bo and Marsh we love all of these other people

though you're a team for fighting but maybe in our hearts yeah they're my heart team yeah and you know like Jon Jon doesn't know how to betray them right because he too loves them and even if he had the balls to do it he's, Jon doesn't know how to betray them, right? Because he too loves them.

And even if he had the balls to do it, like, he's like, I don't know what to do. He can't send word to Castle Black. He fears that these men are going to be murdered in their beds, unawares. But he also worries, like, if he leaves, then Ygritte's going to be murdered to pay for his, quote unquote, treachery. And we get that line we talked about earlier. quote-unquote treachery and we get that line we talked about earlier many a night he lay with egret warm beside him wondering if his lord father had felt this confused about his mother whoever she had been egret set the trap and vance raider pushed me into it and a little later we get the line he did not want their friendship any more than he wanted Ygritte's love and yet

he wants them both he wants a family that's all he wants, he wants acceptance and they give it to him, kinda kind of, ish I mean, I understand why they're withholding it he has been lying to them

yeah they're not wrong and then he balk. And then he barks. Bark. And yeah, and then he leaves, like, lies hard. Yep, yep, yep. John wonders where Ghost is.

Did he make it to the castle? He hasn't had any wolf dreams for a while. Yeah, he feels like part of himself is cut off, and he thinks he feels alone, even with Ygritte beside him. And he doesn't want to die alone. A storm is brewing up. It's pretty awful.

They take shelter in this nearby village. Once they get settled, it's abandoned. It's set by a lake, and there's an abandoned watchtower. Interesting. I wonder what kind of tower that is in the middle of the water, Eliana. Huh. Have we seen it before? Who knows?

Moving on. I don't know this. I don't know a tower. I've never seen this tower ever in my life. In my life. Yeah. We can't get to it to know what kind of tower it is out there in the middle of the lake. And we can't know it even as the wildlings scout

the place where they eventually find a fire. John then fears that this is it. It's my moment to betray them. But, no. It's just an old man. Yeah. The Magnar orders the Thens to

create a perimeter immediately and start patrolling, and the rest of the people get in the broken-down inn for shelter, except for several Thens. Several Thens raid the old man's belongings, his horse, they raid him. The Magnar had said as much at Greyguard. Any kneelers they met were to be put to death at once, to make certain they could not raise the alarm. Ride with them, eat with them, fight with them. Did that mean he must stand mute and helpless while they slit an old man's throat near the edge of the village

john came face to face with one of the guards steer had posted the fen growled something in the old tongue and pointed his spear back toward the inn get back where you belong john guessed but where is that where is that so Where is that? So two thoughts. Magnar says any kneelers we meet have to be put to death at once, but who is this little old man in this abandoned village kneeling to?

Who's collecting his taxes? Who is collecting his taxes? He's not kneeling to anyone. He's literally as free as those people are because the watch is not what it used to be. It's diminished. They can't come ringing doorbells and asking for checks to donate to charity. This guy is like on the same freedom level as the free folk are, even though he lives below the wall.

But they just assume he's probably a lord that lives in his little keep castle and gets whatever he wants and i don't know interesting because they obviously have some good points some good points have been made by these free folk but not all not all uh also this is just like in lilo and stitch when stitch goes into the forest because he's like i'm ruining lilo's life and i'm causing destruction and he takes the book with him that he stole from lilo and it's the ugly duckling book and he's like that's me i'm the ugly duckling like who's my family like i have no family i'm alone john where is that same thing no or stewart little even i mean john, Jon Snow, Stuart Little, so many parallels. So many. I think that's what inspired George. I'm gonna throw it out there. Just like how George

time travel warged into the future to be inspired by Shrek for Davos. It's in Onions. It's all canon. Jon heads towards a broken down cottage and sits at a dry spot beneath it where egret finds him chilling and he tells her look watch this tower in the lake i know this place and she's like i don't know the fens heard something it's probably ghosts it ran it's brand he's like we could look and he's about to explain to her if this is the place he thinks it is. They can examine the tower without getting too wet. But suddenly lightning hits it and the top of it lights up like a crown. The paint on the Merlins is golden yellow and it's Queen's crown. Wow.

Who would have thought? I can't believe this. It's the same tower. It's exactly where Bran is. They're so close. Wow. So I'm so excited because the end of this chapter, Jon and Bran are going to get back together

and the whole band's going to get back together. It's the best. It's so good. This fantasy story is so happy. And so Jon tells Ygritte the story of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. Interesting. And Alysanne's visit to the wall. When he came to Winterfell, he brought his queen, six dragons, and half his court.

The king had matters to discuss with his warden of the north, and Alysanne grew bored. So she mounted her dragon's silver wing and flew north to see the wall. This village was one of the places where she stopped. Afterward, the small folk painted the top of their holdfast to look like the golden crown she'd worn when she spent the night among them. First off, Alysanne is just

trendsetter. She really is. I saw Queen Alysanne wearing a gold crown, so I put a gold crown on our tower. Pretty much. But I think this is interesting because it ties in with something we

received in Fire and Blood, a tidbit of info. Earlier on in the chapter, Jon could not find Ghost. He couldn't have any connection with him. He just couldn't connect with Ghost through the wall no wolf dreams no nothing so in his mind he was worried about ghosts he was worried about ghosts not getting south of

the wall something happening to him but there's a similar tale where there's a wall and magic happening and queen aliceanne is on her dragon and in fire and blood we're told that her dragon would not go north of the wall uh that no matter how she tried to get silverwing to go north silverwing would not go north so it makes me think that the magic of the wall is the same magic that kind of operates with dragons and operates with dire wolves. And possibly, especially with all of this blood sacrifice that this wall has built up, it's the same magic that the old gods operate off of and other gods like Br'lor, the Lord of Light, and even the Drowned God, if you really want to will it that well. So I think that George finally got to grow the Alisand bit with Silverwing.

It was probably in his notes and on his brain this whole time. But it's very curious that these bits of the chapter are connected, right? That last chapter set us up with, is Ghost okay? Is he going to where John wants him to go? And now John has no contact with him, which makes us go, ah, Ghost is at Castle Black. Yes. which makes us go ah ghost is at castle black yes uh he made it he made it home homeward bound that's not true he did it i i do think that's like a lot of that's a great way of looking back going back to wait to go forward i i think you've done a great job of helping us go forward and going back to go forward chloe i'm close enough close enough i'm

working on it but you did good egret says uh that she's never seen a dragon and john's like well duh they all died, you dummy. But I'm gonna be like, well, I think it's actually more of that Jon has grown up with a deprived childhood, alright? Because Ygritte's like, yeah, I've never seen a dragon, because Ygritte over here has had a magical childhood growing up, seeing giants, and snuffle up a guy everywhere, and she's like, I don't know, maybe I'll see a dragon one day.

Dream big, though, Ygritte, dream big. Literally big. big literally giants i love that john tells her like well this is before they died like a bajillion years ago and they start talking about alicean and she's like if she was so good she would have torn that wall down which yes true and john thinks no the wall protects the realm from the others and from you and your kind as well sweetling they're not so different john you know this you know this ridden with them you've fought with them you've not balked at them yeah he's just trying to socially distance himself from them as he prepares to escape. Letting go. So they're interrupted by the Magnar, who's now barking for John. So John falls along and, eager to stir his dismay, comes along as well because she's a free bitch and she can do whatever she wants.

I was listening to that album again a few days ago. Classic. They find the Magnar standing at a tree in the middle of the hearth slash common room and oh it's the old man and he's kneeling stir tells john all right john kill this man and then john draws a sword and corin's words ring in his ears also his father's the man is dead what matters if it is my hand that slays him one One cut would do it, quick and clean. Longclaw was forged of Valyrian steel, like ice. John remembered another killing. The deserter on his knees, his head rolling, the brightness of blood on snow.

His father's sword, his father's words, his father's face. Yikes. There's a lot there. A to unpack i'm just gonna blow past it because we all know just damn uh egret tells him he has to do it to prove he's not a crow and john is like dude he is a sitting old man you want me to kill a sitting old man and egret argues orrell was sitting by a fire and he was killed by you. And you meant to kill Ygritte. And you meant to kill me as well, Jon. So really, honestly, it's not that different.

Honestly, she has a pretty good point, which is why I kind of struggled with the scene initially. Because I was remembering this moment before coming to it and rereading it. And I was comparing the situation of killing the old man with like how John must not balk when killing Corrin but he balks at killing this old man and in the context of like the context of these situations right with Corrin's orders of what John has to do and at first I was thinking like oh the big difference is that Corrin knew what he was asking of John right he knew that he had chosen to give up his life for this cause and I think that choice does make a big difference is that Corrin knew what he was asking of Jon, right? He knew that he had chosen to give up his life for this cause. And I think that choice does make a big difference in a

story where many people are willing to sacrifice the life of some other person, but not necessarily their own, tying into some of those larger themes of like slavery and what the others do, and like the lords and stuff, whatever. But i mean egret's kind of right what is the difference between this old man and when john killed oral and like egret's friends like and i think that the difference in this situations actually comes down to how john himself acts in them and uh here are some quotes one from clash where john does kill oral out of the corner of his eye he saw the sleeper stirring and he knew he must finish his man quick when the brand swung again he bowled into it swinging the bastard sword with both hands the valyrian steel sheared through

leather fur wool and flesh but when the wildling fell, he twisted, ripping the sword from John's grasp. So I think this is from John 6, if I'm not mistaken, in Clash of Kings. But compare what happens here, right? So here, John just like bulls into the dude, versus we're going to reread a little more of that passage that we just did right now. The man kept staring at him with eyes as big and black as wells. I will fall into those eyes and drown. The magnar was looking at him too, and he could almost taste the mistrust.

The man is dead. What matter if it is my hand that slays him? One cut would do it, quick and clean. Longclaw was forged of Valyrian steel. Like ice. John remembered another killing. So, as Jon remembers that other killing, it happens as he's looking at this man in his eyes. And what we're seeing here is that Jon, when he kills Aurel, doesn't give him northern justice.

He never looked in Aurel's eyes to judge him. He respects that one of the wildlings goes for the horn first, but he didn't do what he was supposed to do based on what Ned taught him. Because here, Jon looks into this man's eyes, and he can't judge him as someone that's worthy to die, and thus can't bring himself to kill him. Yeah, so Jon refuses to do it. And the Magnar commands him to, and Jon's like, you don't't command me you don't command free folk you only command thens and this is where that whole power structure of we're free but we're also not really free comes in steer says he sees no free folk only a crow and his crow wife this pisses egret off very badly she declares she's no crow wife and she slits the old man's throat. Which, interesting parallel here,

her and Tormund earlier protected Jon by speaking out of turn, trying to get information out of Jon. And Ygritte is still protecting him here as well. Yeah, it is interesting. He wasn't worth it, Ygritte. She yells at Jon that he knows nothing and flings the bloody blade at the ground by his feet. And then the Magnar tells the Thun something that Jon doesn't understand,

but it makes no matter because lightning crashes down on the lake and thunder shakes everything. And death leapt out amongst them, is one of the lines. And more than that, a giant direwolf is that death. A huge gray dire wolf descends on them it kills a then and another and another and at first john thinks it's ghost like we said this question is getting answered in this chapter but john doesn't know that yet and he thinks that the wolf is ghost but he realizes that the wolf's gray he knows he has no chance other than right

now so he takes it his sword is still out and he cuts down a fenn in front of him. He slashes at another. He fights his way through. He gets to a horse. He mounts the horse. She lashes out. She bucks at fenns all around her, and then they're off. And then they're off?

And fired. Hours later, John finds himself in the grass and he's worse for wear. There's an arrow sticking out of his leg and he can't even think of the madness that just happened. John shook his head. He had no answers. It was too hard to think. About the wolf, the old man, Ygritte, any of it. And the things that happen in this scene is just like

it's so excruciating because John is bleeding profusely and he tries to take the arrow out but it's agonizing. What he does to take the arrow out, you know how you might think he's gonna pull it out? No, he can't because of the way the arrow's shaped so he pushes it all the way through

till it comes out the other side of his thigh. And he's like, I don't know how I did this. He eventually does do it, and he's like, I can't believe I didn't pass out just now. I need to just lie down here after what I've done, which, understandable. John at this

moment wonders if Ygritte had been aiming for him or for the horse because had she actually hit the mare, John would have been doomed he would have never made it out i don't think this is something that george was doing but it reminds me of a line a an iconic line from the shakespearean play richard the third because i'm nothing if not scripted in the things that i will reference here and it's a horse a horse my kingdom for a horse richard the third in battle loses a horse and because of that it's about horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse. Richard III in battle loses a horse. And because of that, it's about this irony of like,

oh, I needed this like small, simple thing. And like everything fell apart because I didn't have it. But here, John's lucky, right? His horse wasn't hit. He's like, I'm really glad that my leg got in the way. He literally thinks something like that. He's like, this is great. Yeah, he's like, my leg got hit.

We did it. Good job, team. John makes himself get up, if only so he doesn't bleed out on the ground to death. He goes to a cold stream, he washes his wound, he binds his leg up, and he mounts the mare once more. Thunder rumbled softly in the distance,

but above him the clouds were breaking up. John searched the sky until he found the ice dragon, then turned the mare north for the wall in Castle Black. The throb of pain in his thigh muscle made him wince as he put his heels into the old man's horse. I'm going home, he told himself, but if that were true, why did he feel so hollow? He rode till dawn while the stars stared down like eyes. Lots more of that Azor Ahai, Last Hero, Simon Star-Eye kind of imagery going on here. Very interesting. Yeah, the Last Hero thing is interesting, especially because when you think about it, this is very much like a corollary.

Sent his dog away. He said goodbye to his friends. Yeah. Or like the last time John tried to say goodbye to his friends, right? In his last Game of Thrones chapter where he's like running away on a horse and he's deserting. But he's doing it again this time. But this time he's deserting for Castle Black, not away from it. Home is where the mutton is.

Yeah, and this time at least he doesn't have his giant wolf to give him away. Yeah, he already sent his dog away. Yeah, so he could just pretend to be like a rando. How interesting that each of these Starks have had to kind of send their wolf away for the most part, right? Like Rob had to keep his wolf out at the Red Wedding.

Lady obviously got sent away to death. And to death. Numeria gets sent away. With the rocks. And now Ghost. And I'm sure Summer will have something. And Shaggy Dog I hope never has anything wrong happen to him ever in his life.

I mean both Shaggy Dog and Ricken were sent away together. That's true. That's true. Together to the room. We did it. I just, yeah, this is such a great ending. Stars stared down like eyes. So many conjured ideas.

Watching him. To go forward, you must go back, Jon Snow. The others. Oh, yeah. Quaithe, but also the others. Fascinating. Fascinating. Road till dawn.

Wow. All right. We're getting so close to this battle others. Fascinating. Fascinating. Road till dawn. Wow. All right. We're getting so close to this battle at Winterfell, Eliana. Mm-hmm. But so the Battle of Winterfell is obviously going to be a big deal and quite a treat. We do have a few more treats after that. Stay tuned, friends and family. Yeah. You guys will know soon.

We promise. We promise. My family doesn't listen to me. I hope mine doesn't. I love them but by god at what cost i think my mom my mom thinks about it but i'm like it's not it's not gonna make much sense to you she's been recommending this to like her friends and some others in our family though well well all right well with that i think we will close this week.

Next week, you guys are going to hear us do John 6. We'll keep it short and sweet. Nice, brisk episode. And the week after that, we will go into the battle at Castle Black. We, of course, have a couple of other things coming up for you. Before July ends, we are going to have a Patreon episode about Northern Independence. You know, about kneeling not kneeling all that good

stuff yes I'm excited for that and as well as that you can look forward to our very first episode of His Dark Materials we're covering the first book whether you want to call it the Golden Compass or Northern Lights if you're British if you're pretentious if you're me in America stuck

where you have to say the golden compass. It's just illegal to speak otherwise. It's all in where you stand. It's all in where you stand. Oh my god. That will be coming out too by the end of July, so look for that. We are very excited. If you haven't

read it before, I'm reading it for the very first time. Eliana has read it, so you will still have half of us to relate to come join us it will be fun yeah so stay tuned for when all that comes out you can keep up by subscribing to us on social media there's girls gone canon over on twitter where chloe has also posted some of the album art that will be accompanying our series. And, of course, you can always shoot us an email at

girlsgonecanon at gmail dot com. Hey, subscribe to us if you haven't subscribed to us on your podcast listening device and app. You can find us on Podbean, on Spotify, on Google Play, on iTunes, on Stitcher, on Acast, and many others.

We do have a Patreon where you can catch some of those episodes. For $5 and up, you get those special episodes like Northern Independence. We also have a stretch goal, we mentioned it earlier, where we would like to do, for all of you, a Feast for Feast. Yes, very excited about a feast for feasts basically it's a live stream where eliana and i will be cooking from the semi-official companion cookbook a feast of ice and fire we'll make a few recipes from there together live live streaming it to you guys while talking about a feast for crows our favorite book so get us to that stretch goal every little bit counts we have tons of different perks so come

check it out patreon.com slash girls gone canon and as always i have been one of your hosts chloe you know me from the internet lies in arbor and i have been another one of your hosts eliana you don't know me from the internet maybe you do maybe you're not just lurks in the shadows they don't know I mean who knows maybe I'm lying

maybe I'm a turncloak bastard oh my god damn motherless damn goodnight