Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 70 - ADWD Jon IV

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

The Wall's stores are running low, and Stannis is out here sipping fucking lemon water as he tries to decide what to do about the North, the Umbers, and getting literally anyone to fight for him.  --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric  Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl  Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor  Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com  Intro by Anton Langhage    

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, a song of ice and fire episode 70, John in a Dance with Dragons, chapter four. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from the internet as Liza Narber. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as Glass Table Girl on Reddit or the Maester Monthly podcast, or maybe you know me as Arithmetic on Twitter. Everyone, it's been a while.

It's like a simple week. Since we did a John chapter, JK, it's been been a while. It's like a simple week. Since we did a John chapter. JK, it's been like a week. It's been literally a week. We do this every week. But we might not be. Yeah. This is a simple week.

This is like a homegrown, one-off, John 4, Chloe and Eliana do John. Wait. Wait. You know, I was having a conversation earlier with hor quinton from the not a cast a song of ice and fire podcast if you've ever heard of them cast yes the boys uh one of the boys i was having a conversation with pq about how like at the very end my vision when this podcast is complete is we will have completed for the A Song of Ice and Fire podcast one whole canon. We will. We did get some tweets

and emails of note for this episode. I clearly have to read this aloud. Yeah, you have to. This is a good one. Yeah, so I was really overjoyed when this showed up in the inbox. I was like, Chloe, we got a great comment on Podbean. From our friend Craig Mulvey,

Chloe, when will your Jon Snow is Katie Heron essay be released? I'm from Winterfell with all the little dire elves. Yeah. Listen. On Wednesdays, we wear

black. Yes. It's actually, what's going on here? Yeah, basically. It's actually what's going on here. Yeah, basically. It's not coming out, Craig. Just like the rest of my essays. So... Damn. I'm just kidding.

A couple of them might. I have one open right now. I'm not saying that I've written in it, but it's open. And, you know, making sure that the door is open, that your heart is open to writing the essay, that's the first step, truly. That's the first step in truly, to writing anything. Speaking of disappointing you, we're going to take a break for two weeks.

Our usual last week off, now that we started Autumn, will still be happening of A Song of Ice and Fire. But we also are taking a second break week off because of His Dark Materials. We want to finish off the first book right before the show starts on the 4th of November here in the US. In the UK, that's the third for you lucky people. Yeah, we're going to take a week off. We'll be back on November 8th with John. So take a couple weeks off of John fatigue. I know. Yeah, we just wanted to tell you, you know, this was a normal Jon week. You know, your weekly Jon episode and then drop this bomb on you. Hey, it's

not the only bomb you're going to get dropped on you in this episode, so we'll talk about that soon, too. Whoa. Jon's got some big bombs to get dropped on him as he listens in on some war council. It's getting real. It's getting real in Jon's chapters.

And hey, if you are tired of Jon, don't fear, because he dies soon. Wow. Like in nine episodes. Eight episodes. Something like that. Then, you know, then there will be another character. We'll see.

Maybe. Unless I get fired. Yeah, we could just stop. Yeah. Or I get fired we could just stop yeah or I get fired but you know I come back all the time I'm always putting in my application again getting rehired I'm very qualified for this I don't know maybe you're overqualified maybe I'm gonna have to let you go ma'am

but before we do that we have a lightning round can we talk about that segue that was a lightning round. What was that segway? Can we talk about that segway? That was a bad segway. I feel like that's why I get fired, you know? Because I'm terrible at doing these segways. This is what you're wearing. She's wearing a shirt with dogs all over it.

Business during the day, party, retire at night Eliana what did we miss in our lightning round? I miss actually a lot of things turns out so who knew that Dany only had two chapters up until this point right? Like we're on John 4 already in this book

she's only had two chapters, insane Daenerys too the Harpy's sons have brought more murder to the streets of Meereen and Daenerys imposes a blood tax on the important families to fund more freedmen she gets another warning

from Quaithe ignores one from Barristan and begins to feel suspicious of more traitors in her midst it's a healthy chapter I'll give it that you know of more traitors in her midst. It's a healthy chapter. I'll give it that. You know, like, it may only be her second chapter, but it's a chapter. It's for sure. Reek one. The fray boys in Winterfell come upon a new kind of creature in the kennels.

Reek, reek. He rhymes with emotionally and physically damaged Theon Greyjoy, who has landed in Ramsay's clutches and must now do his bidding. I miss the Reek chapters. Yo, Theon was a time. He was. Paralarve. Paralarve.

Bran II, Bran and company face a white attack at the cave, narrowly escaping and meet an ancient seer connected to a weirwood. The last green seer the three-eyed crow actually it's brendan did you call him brandon company because of how rachel handler makes it seem as though bran has a startup every time in her recaps of game of thrones no no i didn't but for the sake of for for pete's sake for amanda pete's sake i should have i should have

tyrian four disallowed from drinking wine oh bad feeling tyrian finds new entertainment watching septa lamore bathe breaking fast with yosilla and yandri watching young griff train and writing down everything he knows about dragons. Davos 2. Davos arrives in the White Arbor, hiding in a shady tavern to learn more about the Frey-Manderly alliance before finally heading toward Newcastle to demand to see Wyman Manderly. Daenerys 3. Zaro's Owen Duxos offers Daenerys 13 war galleys in exchange for her to leave the city

and to quit abolishing slavery and ruining his life. She refuses both this and desperate pleas from Lord Gael against Yunkai being attacked and is given a symbol of war, a bloody glove, the day after from Zaro. I know I wrote that, but like, I don't feel like I did. And all those

words felt like completely like, who wrote that? You wrote that. Jesus. I think I meant for you to read that one. God. Oh, why? There's nothing in here to make, to surprise me, you know? There's nothing in here to make me be like, Chloe,

what the fuck? All of these were real ass things that happened. Just like here, and John for the food stores are running low, and John is forced to ration the watch to feed all parties. Rattleshirt and Queensmen

taunt John on his way to Council Stannis on the North, and he is once more offered Winterfell. Did you hear the quotes around Rattleshirt? I did. I should do it again. I should have done it in the same tone. Ed guides John down into the cellar, telling him to avoid the rats.

He tells him this little story that his mom and rats both make the same squeals if you step on them. And she may just have been a rat too hmm it's got some interesting stories but obviously this is a nod maybe to people betraying john you know because they all rats in here but more deeply maybe tying back to the story of the rat cook and betrayal but hey also like the liked cheese i'm definitely digging too deep but it reminds me again of illyrio who's also being a little rat like you know with the events that happened in

this book with denarius and phagon as we learned that illyrio had other plans i mean we always knew he had other plans right but now we really know what the other plans are. Yeah, betrayal might just be a common theme in this book. You know, betrayal by rats. Wow. They use the wormways, and the wormways are the series of tunnels that connect the underground at Castle Black. There's this line that really stuck out to me,

and I don't know, it could be foreshadowing even. When the winter winds began to blow and the snows began to fall the tunnels became the quickest way to move about the castle i never really noticed that line it's formed right off of the the lone wolf dies passage you know it's the same almost the same exact rhythm but it does make sense that maybe even the people that survive the Wall's fall survive by escaping out of the tunnels. You might, we might see it. You have to use the tunnels to get to the libraries that Sam was down in, so they connect everywhere.

You know there's a ton of gates below the Wall in general. The Black Gate is set in one. There's the idea of Gendel's Caves. There's the idea of Gendel's caves. Yeah, I mean, I, of course, am like, this is one of the tinfoils that I really love, that the caves go throughout all of Planetos, you know? And I really do feel like it's going to be important, so I think that's a really good catch. And, I mean, it happens in real life. From my understanding, if i'm remembering correctly

toronto right gets so cold that there's like a system of tunnels underneath that people can use to navigate instead of having to be outdoors or maybe like it was just the university of toronto i don't remember something in toronto is like this i i think that it's a little interesting that they're called wormways it It reminds me of fireworms. Oh, that's a good thought. I didn't even think of that. And I mean, there's also that whole idea of Gendel's caves, right? Well, here they are. Yeah.

To me, they're the same caves. And like, apparently, what, didn't they find some maybe, I don't know if they found some in King's Landing or not. But I remember browsing long, long ago the Minecraft. Did you see the Westeros Minecraft map? Yeah, there's like some interesting tunnels that they like put together in there.

It's very fun. But you know it's not fun. Bo and Marsh awaiting John and giving John the food inventory. That was a better segue, wasn't it? From three moon turns ago. They've had no pilferage yet, but Marsh tells them, maybe you're going to need to put like guards here.

That'll be like the thing, the move this winter. But I'm also like wondering how good can they be? I mean, remember we had that whole guards thing that didn't work so well with, I want to say it was like the free folk women, right? Who were staying at Castle Black. Yeah, and in desperate times, it won't matter. Like if a man wants food, he'll get his food. Yeah, there's going to be like riots.

Yeah, absolutely. They already stabbed John. Who's going to stop them? And we're not going to go too far into it, but we are going to reference it today. I mean, that's what's upcoming. You know, that's what happens in winter. It's the very thing we've been told is going to happen and then it starts to happen they uh as they do the inventory they count the granary produce meats cheeses moving room to room and soon their breath clouds the air because they're directly beneath the wall and the cold is

preserving meat they go through the meat room in the heart of the cold and john takes his gloves off he touches a haunch of venison and when he pulls his fingers away he loses some of his skin i thought that was kind of a gruesome cold detail like it's that cold marsh finishes his count and announces well we fucked. They had enough originally to get through three or four years of winter, but with just their men in Molestown, that was what was accounted for. Now they have Free Folk and Stannis. Yeah, they're like, oh shit, we've got all these people. And like beyond that, I know that we're pinning our hopes on these tunnels right now.

I don't think this will happen. I think it's more likely it's what you said the tunnels are going to be important but what if the collapse of the wall affects some of those tunnels right and they end up losing the ability to traverse those to the others which also means losing some of these food stores and this whole thing about winter and food stores, it's not gonna go as easy and fast as it did in the HBO hit series award winning show Game of Thrones. George definitely

wants to explore a lot of these questions around resources and scarcity which is why we're having John actually do this stuff that seems boring but is actually very important. This administrative stuff which is a big part of being a lord, you know, lord commander, running around the wall. And it's how Sam pointed out way back then, like, John, this is why you were assigned to be a

steward, because a lot of lordship is this stuff. And there's also, I thought that language around it feeling colder than it should has a lot to do with not just, yeah, it's literally cold. But like, maybe it's a good way of showing the emotions without saying it. It's around the fear of the situation. And maybe it even has to do with some of the emotional distance that Jon feels towards Bowen Marsh. Yeah, that's interesting, especially because last chapter he wanted bow and marsh he said i'll take your advice bow and marsh and here he is still making the wrong choices in bow and marsh's eyes in front of him as we're about to get to and i do like that of course it feels colder than it should

also being that signal hey remember the others yeah coming for you it's too late to plant crops in the north and marsh predicts they'll be down to turnips and porridge and drinking their horse's blood eliana don't listen challenge by the end of the year and if amen's words were anything to go by there would be illness as well limes and meat would cure most of them especially loose teeth but they ran out of limes a year ago. Marsh advises them to go on winter rations. John knows they'll complain, but he says they'll cut each man's portion by a quarter. Now I understand why King Stannis let the wildlings through the wall.

He means for us to eat them. John had to smile. It will not come to that. Oh, good, said Ed. They look a stringy lot, and my teeth are not as sharp as when I was younger. This, I think, heralds back to what we were saying, right? Earlier about Dolores Ed replacing his teeth with dragonglass. I mean, that's what's being confirmed here, right? Oh my god, that's the theory. dragonglass i mean that's what's being confirmed here right oh my god that's the theory no that's the theory but there is a joke here right the joke is of course here that later there are four peas berries that are indulging themselves in human flesh in the

sacrifice and the bigger joke is their sigil is a pea pod haha i thought that was like the best joke of it all but it really does harken back to a couple things stanis's siege of storm's end and just to throw this out another person who's had to eat horse blood or drink horse blood is danny not quite the same terms but yep she had a whole heart and i mean that seemed really difficult she had a whole ass heart like that's a lot and also i think a lot of the other dothraki are probably used to this too there's also i think there's definitely what you're talking about with stannis and the siege of storm's end and the cannibalism that's definitely something that's outplay yeah it's gonna happen marsh says had they the coin they could also ship some food in from the south and john thinks we would need both coin and someone who is willing to sell to us he's like well the eerie would

probably be our best hope they're untouched from the war and it's some fertile land but he's also like i don't know how lies is gonna feel about wanting to feed Ned's bastard. Spoiler, it's not a spoiler, Liza doesn't feel anything right now. But she's dead! Ooh, look what you made. Okay, anyways, and her sister, being Catelyn, Jon remembers this memory and is like, maybe Liza doesn't want to feed me. me as a boy he often felt as if the lady grudged him every bite so i thought that this heralding to the eerie could be maybe significant because obviously things are gonna go once more way different in the books for some things than they do in the show like maybe

there's still a plot right of sansa saving winterfell or the night's watch but i think it would have less to do with this convoluted plot idea of her not telling john about any of the plans regarding the veil army coming up in order to retake winterfell because this is a plot that as many have discussed likely goes to stannis with the Battle of Ice and has to do with him. And maybe Sansa's plot with all that has more to do with bringing stores of food. Because we know from the Feast chapters, and I think we touched on this a little back then, that Littlefinger is secretly stockpiling. Maybe not so secretly, depending on who you are and what you think about it. I don't know.

Food and buying it off of people, which could prove to end up being a really good store. It's not great for, I guess, the rest of the Vale or the Eyrie, who knows, but and it's not enough to feed a whole kingdom, but this is something that could come to play and also harkens back to some lessons that

Sansa might have learned from other players of the Game of Thrones, like how the Tyrells were well loved by the small folk and are seen as being a place with a lot of food. Yeah, absolutely. This is something that really stuck out to me that the Vale definitely still has that food. However, with what you're saying, Littlefinger is depriving them.

He's pulling supply and demand on them, right? He's making the cost super on them right he's making the cost super high but he's right now buying everything off of these houses that would do anything for some money they aren't thinking about how harsh this winter could really be and Littlefinger of course knows that this might be a interesting winter ahead of them and lots is happening and he buys all that up so with all that withholding I mean if Sansa is the one that's making the big money moves, taking them home, she can command that be given to this cause. I mean, especially with all the fertility symbolism and the mother symbolism with Sansa, you know, the whole make them love me.

It's a pretty big move. I think it's something we will see. Throws into that good queen, Sansa. I think it just something we will see throws into that good queen Sansa I think it just makes more sense than what they gave her in the show that doesn't make as much sense to me it sucks because in season 7 and 8

she started to make sense but the season 6 to get there season 5 and 6 to get there and 4 even was just a mess I'm also not even sure that like since we are on john chapters i there's a poetry of course to him facing off against ramsay i'm not sure that we get something that neat in the books i mean it has to be done by the first quarter yeah like like as people said it's probably Stannis. Yeah, I could see it going either way.

I could see Stannis also losing, which would be a big shock and horribleness, and he would retreat and burn Shireen. That makes sense to me, too. Yeah, but I think he has to win. I think something that me and poor Gwyn have been talking about is that he has to hit that victory, that sweet, sweet victory, just like we're going to see Dorne hit that victory finally, right? And we have to see that sweet, sweet victory for him just for it all to fall away and for the Northerners to say, no, we don't actually want you.

Yeah, that makes sense for his storyline. And Jon ends up being deprived the sort of vengeance that he wanted against the Boltons, right? He doesn't get to enact it, necessarily. And he comes back different and harder. Or not harder. Yeah. Maybe harder, faster, stronger. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm.

The groundskeeper whittlestick. So, the groundskeeper whittlestick. So the groundskeeper whittlestick. I can't believe this is his real last name. So I'm guessing it's not because any words are made up. But I really hope his parents like, you know, his mother birthed him, held him and was like, this is my son whittlestick. Because he is a whittlestick right now. Oh my God. So he says they can hunt, but Marsh objects.

There are wildlings and darker things in the wood. John knows Marsh wouldn't. He would close the gates and seal them, stone and ice if he could, and half of the wall agrees with Marsh. Seal our gates and plant your fat black horses on the wall, aye, and the free folk will come swarming o'er the bridge of skulls or through some gate you thought you'd sealed five hundred years ago.

The old forester, Diwin, had declared loudly over supper, two nights past, we don't have the men to watch a hundred leagues of wall, torment giants' butt, and the bloody weeper know it too. Ever see a duck frozen in a pond with its feet in the ice?

It works the same for crows. Finally some wisdom. I kind of like calling him Tormund Giantsbutt. Tormund Giantsbutt is a good one. Everybody like loves that Tormund Giants babe, but I think this might be better. Yeah this one's way better. But I rain but i also love butt jokes so yeah me too the rangers all back dwyane on this uh but the stewards and builders side with bowen marsh that's really interesting i'm noticing a lot of division in the ranks and i i'm noticing that with like queens men and kings men especially at the wall and celise really kind of brings that presence especially in this this upcoming bit here. She brings that presence when we see her of, you know,

she's from House Florence. She might be, you know, described in the text as a mustachioed old crone, but that's not really what she looks like. You know, I'm sure it's exaggerated. And hair is natural, so you do use Selyse, but also you suck. She's just a very dry woman that we see of her. So I have been subscribed to and am really behind on the Clash of Kings comic book issues. And they actually drew.

Drew in Selyse's mustache a little. That is great. Yeah. i was like oh oh they they really they really kept that detail in i mean it's so funny that that's the thing you know like that's the thing they get her for like really not the florent ears i mean make fun of those i mean but because they maybe they all have florent ears, so they're like, whatever. But it's like everyone's hairy in this time. That's true. It's made up fantasy time. Like, what was she gonna do? Maybe it's gonna be better for her with winter coming,

you know? So Lisa's gonna be warm. What the fuck are you gonna do? Yeah. Die? The Florents are also, like, not ugly, like, just bumpin' ugly like, ugly people, like, that just live somewhere that somehow married Stannis. It isn't some joke like the Florence are kind of a good match for Stannis.

They're an ambitious family in the reach. And I'm guessing John Aaron made the marriage and probably to put that like check into place in case the Tyrells tried to rise up ever. Like, oh, we have we have a lord. We have lords that could take your spot. We don't need you. But it's not like Solelyse is a bad match. I find some of that writing interesting. She's not like a bad match.

I guess a Hightower would have been a better match, but Lannes was, you know, off. Well, there's Melora. That would have been an interesting match, actually. Stannis and Melora. And Melisandre. Is that a threesome? I think so. I think they would have been an interesting match, actually. Stannis and Melora. And Melisandre. Is that a threesome? I think so. I think they would have all...

At the very least, Melora and Melisandre would have gotten along. And Stannis would have just been there being like, not again. Yeah. Is this... I don't know, is this an OT3? Is this...

Yep, pretty much. But Jon right now has to face the facts that they can't leave the Baratheons to starve even though they're eating all of their food because the Baratheons could just also slaughter the Night's Watch. But they also can't starve the

wildlings because that's terrible too and also Jon still hasn't explained to everyone when the people die they come back terrible too and also john still hasn't explained to everyone when the people die they come back as white and no one seems to really get this and marsh asks then like well what the fuck are we gonna do and john says they'll find a way love always finds a way john heads up finally to the air and the light and he comes across devin seaworth stannis's squire oh my god he's such a good boy he's 12 and he has brown hair and brown eyes and ghost is sniffing him he's frozen in fear and john's like ghost stop like ghost won't hurt you but devin flinches and ghost bears his teeth

and john commands ghost away and ghost trots off and devon is saved and this is really reminiscent of gilly almost when she's first introduced scared brown hair big doe eyes and then now look how ferocious she is but devon is cloaked of course in baratheon golden black with the queen's men patch upon him not really gilly-esque i would love to see a Devin character arc. Yeah. I want to see Devin grow up. I think I would love to see one of Davos' sons at least grow up. Like, that man has lost so much. Give him a good family life, even though he hasn't been home in who knows how long.

Just one. Yeah. My favorite Devin moment, though, is still, like, in the Melisandre chapter, when we find out, like, what, after four pages of talking about blood and fire, like, oh, Devon, you were here the whole time. Amazing. Oh. He didn't say the darndest things, you know? Except he doesn't say anything. He's just chilling there. Yep. Yep.

Devon tells Jon that his grace commands his presence and that Sir Richard and Justin had returned from riding the incorrect way as you'll remember they were the wrong way rangers as Jon and other folks talked to them and Jon is stripped of his weaponry as he enters Stannis'

presence very base Dothrak this is so good so interesting that every time Stannis is just like yep remove your weapons like that's his whole policy because Jon is like this is so silly but Jon dies from his men wielding knives later not that

he could have been protected but Jon thinks this is a silly practice yet yeah I mean to be honest since it's Stannis, he would be better off just saying, everyone leave your shadow outside, considering that knives...

I mean, Stannis killed someone not using a knife, you know? Right. It's also kind of reminiscent to Aerys, right? And if Dany is to Stanny, well... Why don't we call him Stany more?

I know, it's a cute little name, ain't it? It is, it really is. But yeah, I think that's part of it. Heavy lies the crown, and also... More dragon than man. More fire than man. Stany isn't wrong. As you said, there's Jon, ends up getting stabbed by everyone, and then of course there's

the red budding. Like, there's a lot of things that have happened recently for Stannis to be like, hmm. Trust no bitch? What if I didn't trust a lot of the people around here? Especially the guy who doesn't really want me here because I'm eating all of his food. I don't know. The guy with the Valyrian steel sword? Because mine's a fake.

Yeah. Even though deep down, like, Stannis wants to adopt Jon, whatever. Or be him. We don't know. Time travel and be him. It's a little of both. It's a little of both.

So the solar in the King's Tower is hot and crowded, and there's a whole entire group there. Stannis and all his captains, Sigorn, the Magnar of Then, Richard, Justin, Rattleshirt, all of them are there. Rattleshirt? Rattleshirt. Rattleshirt is being his usual self, or is he?

Is he? There's a red ruby on his iron cuffs, which is a little suspect. He mocks Jon, saying, Here he comes, the brave boy who slew man's raider when he was caged and bound to like my ruby snow a token of love from lady red so since this is a reread and we know that this is quote rattle shirt unquote it's rattle shirt mance this is like This is, quote, Rattleshirt, unquote. It's Rattleshirt? Mance. This is like such a sassy coded message to Jon. And it's so funny because Jon didn't get it.

And like when you get the actual chapter, the reveal, you're like, oh. Duh. Like the red ruby. This is this is a token of love from Lady Red. Like what? Why else would suddenly Rattleshirt climb the ranks? Yeah, why else would Rattleshirt be like, look at my other bling. He doesn't care about the jewels.

He's like, look at my cool bones. Or, of course, the brave boy who slew Mance Rayder. Very pointed. Like, Jon thinks it's mocking. But. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Mance Raider. Very pointed. John thinks it's mocking. But... Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. That it is kind of admiration.

He's like, that was a really nice thing you did for me. Yeah, John killed him. And it's not the first person who's asked, so... Yeah, as opposed to the slow, agonizing death of dying by fire, yeah. John is pretty good at this by now.

Yeah, acquiring dads. dying by fire, yeah. Jon is pretty good at this by now. Yeah, acquiring dads. And killing them, yeah. Yep. Putting them out of their misery, yeah. Fuck. Yeah. Jon thought he was killing Mance. So Stannis then offers introductions, but Jon knows the captains they're all queensmen

and Jon notices that there are no kingsmen around Stannis that allegedly they all incurred his ire and so he left them all back on Dragonstone I mean part of it is because we know that he sent his best man Davos away to go do the things we just like quickly went over that in the lightning round

but quite frankly Stannis surrounded by queensmen is just a very like normal baratheon thing for him if you think about it because ned notes the exact same thing happening to robert in book one obviously it's book one because that's when they're both whatever robert's court has been infiltrated by lannister toadies we have one here at the wall right now down to like his squire who at that time is Lancel. And at least Stannis has Devon, who is not necessarily a Queensman, even though later on we kind of find out, I don't know, maybe Devon's more loyal to Melisandre than he is to Stannis. But again, this is just like a normal Baratheon thing to happen, because Renly was the same now that I think about it.

normal Baratheon thing to happen because Renly was the same now that I think about it. Like, he was surrounded by Tyrells, which it could be argued that those are Queensmen because of Margaery, even though we all know, like, Renly was actually in a relationship with Loras and whatever, basically his in-laws in general, same as Stannis and Robert. Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm was so excited, that's I didn't think about that at all of how like that's exactly Robert. When you open the story, that's where Robert is poisoned by all these men. And it's also obvious that these aren't Stannis' type of men. Like they're Godrey Farring is a dick. He's outspoken and a dick.

And he's just like super gassed on, you know, like we get it. Macho. Yeah. And Stannis is like, why isn't everyone listening to me do my opera? You know what I mean? Like he's just like he's like everybody meet in the Great Hall at 10 p.m. for my one man performance of Phantom of the Opera. And he's standing there in his all black tuxedo with a mask on his face and nobody shows up. And he's like, how could they betray me?

Yeah. That's so sad. I know, but that's who Stannis is. And then he looks out of a window for like five hours. And obviously Stannis is not an extrovert. He's not a, he's not really a,

an outgoing friendly guy, right? That's not his persona. So these guys he has surrounded him. I mean, Justin Massey is kind of smarmy, yeah i mean which is why theon doesn't like him but why asha does but what eliana does i mean yeah i i just love that the two great joys see him differently yeah but i mean even though stannis is an introvert and that's like part of why he ends

up getting like overshown by all these other queens men i mean both renly and robert were quite extroverted but they were still surrounded by people more loyal to their in-laws than to them robert obviously was because he didn't care and was just like i don't know they were trying to kill him and renly it seems like ty know they were trying to kill him and renly it seems like tyrells are trying to use him yeah well and you see the different reasons of why that goes on for so long right like robert lets it go on because he just doesn't care anymore because of acedia robert has given up renly lets it go on because he has fake power right power lies where men believe it resides and for for Renly, if he dishes that,

well, that's who is propping up Renly's regime. And as we know, they can turn the tides. The Tyrells can turn the tides of power. They bring the harvest. They bring the men, the power of the reach. That's a very powerful place in the South. We see what happens when you don't have it as well with Stannis. Yeah, and I mean, for stannis he's

trying to go for a different kind of power right like magical power and rather than the power of food it's another it's another version of that question he's using the power of their faith in realor but for now stannis offers john some wine or water boiled with lemons then tells him that he has a gift for him i just want to call back to a moment ago when bowen marsh was saying we're out of fucking food also we need citrus fruits basically he i don't know if he says citrus but like limes and meat because everyone's gonna get so girvy and we don't have vitamin C. But here's Stannis just giving out fucking lemon water to anyone who shows up like this is a spa.

And I think that this is an intentional writing choice. Yeah, well, it's a club that Stannis is heading up here that he has the food, the power, and he might not really have the food, obviously, as we see it's gonna go, but he's eating like a rock star for sure. Still. Yeah, those lemons stannis yeah so the gift that stannis has for john is rattle shirt that's the gift rattle shirt yep rattle shirt rattle shirt john's like okay and stannis is all you want men here is your men and melisandre's grinning there's a total inside joke going on that i just can't figure out john can't either and he's like there's no way anyone's gonna trust him someone will slit his

throat on the wall he'll go back to the wildlings if we send him ranging he's useless but rattle shirt says no way i'm done with the free folk and says ask your red witch and taps his ruby and john still doesn't get it and neither did we on our first read his ruby pulses her ruby pulses and melisandre is like so long as he's bound to me he'll have to serve you faithfully the flames do not lie john okay this is a question that i have is he actually bound to melisandre wearing the ruby like is this like a thing like is melisandre was melisandre bound is this how that magic works or is he bound because i don't, Melisandre maybe threatened his son, or, you know, not wanting his child to burn, or because he feels bound in order to keep this cover to survive.

I think a little bit from column A, a little bit from column B. I didn't really think of it other than, you know, shadowbinding, sorcery. Shadowbinding is sorcery. Like, binding. Shadowbinding is a thing. Yep. That's what I thought, but putting the baby on in there, let's just throw the kid on in the mix, you know? Stir it around in the cauldron. I could see some of that, too.

I'm gonna take, like, 30% that. I'll range for you, bastard, Rattleshirt declared. I'll give you sage counsel or sing you pretty songs, as you prefer. I'll even fight for you. Just don't ask me to wear your cloak. You are not worthy of one, John thought, but he held his tongue. John has all these comebacks inside of him so pointed so very pointed here he is like busy his blood boiling like how dare you disrespect being a human rattle shirt but it's like rattle shirt is screaming at the camera i'm mance and he does say bastard really often i noticed in his mean

angry john speak here which also calls back obviously to when john really hammered home oh i'm a bastard and that's why my life sucks and that's why i'm turning cloak but it also makes me think i guess it could be Mance that writes the pink letter. Because I change on this like every other day, obviously. I still think it's Ramsay. But it could be Mance even. If it was a coded letter. I feel exactly the same as you. I don't know that it's a coded letter or not.

But I do kind of like the idea of it being Mance. Because there is some motivation there, right? It's not just chaos for the sake of it being manse because there is some motivation there right it's not just chaos for the sake of it again there's like his son's life is at stake yeah uh that just don't ask me to wear your cloak though coming back to that is is pretty fucking perfect as a line from manse oh yeah oh yeah absolutely perfect it's again john come. It's again, John, come on. It's just like when, uh, in the Elaine or sorry, the Sansa chapters when George tells us to look closer at Oswald Kettleblack.

Am I right? And for more of that, you can check out the Song of Ice and Fire forgotten characters coming back in the wind's winter where I talk about the Kettleblocks and their extensive history as a leading house in Westeros. Oh man. Where's this episode went? Stannis tells Jon to give him

everything that he knows on Morse Umber. This is part of the Mean Girls gossip part, right? Right. He's like, I heard he does glasses commercials in the North. John thinks, though, to himself that the Night Splash takes no part. But then the other part of him thinks words are not swords. He tells him Umber is the elder of the great John's uncles

and a crow once thought he was dead and pecked his eye out, which is where he gets crow food from, nickname-wise. He was a fearsome fighter in his younger age, and he lost his sons on the trident and his wife in childbed. His only daughter was carried off by free folk 30 years past. Shout out to Crow Food's daughter, Amanda, who we've had on in the past. This is where her namesake hails from. Also, this is like a blatant northern urine parallel.

A crow took his eye. His sight from him. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Vicious and. Yeah. Interesting.

Maybe. You know how we were talking about. And we also brought this up in the forgotten characters episode. Daughters who have been carried off and maybe descendants from them, or them, I guess, this is recent enough that it could be them themselves coming out of nowhere later on,

claiming houses. We were talking about that in terms of House Aaron. So what if, you know, with all of the free folk crossing the wall, wall right she comes back and that could also tie in we'll uh we'll look later obviously but we'll chat about this coming up but that could also tie in with some more themes coming up in john's a dance with dragons

art right uh about the women taking back their homes we saw it a lot during the dance right because a lot of the men had died off and by this i mean the dance civil war not the book that we are in adowada yeah uh look at the riverlands the riverlands a lot of the lords ended up displaced and moving there. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in this chapter. Stannis asks, can we trust Crowfood Umber? And Jon thinks... Stannis asks, can Crowfood Umber be trusted?

And Jon wonders if he's bent the knee. Jon suggests, well, you could have, I guess, more swear and oath under the Weirwood. And then, for some reason, the Queen's men decide, yeah, let's mock the old gods. What dicks, dude? It's pretty fucking rude. You don't just go around like making fun of people's religions like that. It kind of like, I don't know

it's a little culty, right? It's kind of like when CrossFit got really big and everyone was just like, oof, I do CrossFit now, I do CrossFit now but but it became like that's like what they're doing they're like oh we do now we do reloar now oh my gosh that's what it feels like right is reloar scientology it could be maybe like the more you know you make fun of other religions or doctrines what do you move up a level god well it's just like i'm just like it's the big fad yeah all the cool kids are doing it and it requires blood sacrifice to operate what yeah that is that part of the plot of how john gets converted you you know? Yeah, right? That's the Mean Girls plot, right?

As John becomes a plastic when he's resurrected. No. I'm writing this essay for you, apparently. So John finally just overcomes those men. Speaking about the old gods, he ignores them. And he asks Stannis, okay, have the Umbers declared for you? And Stannis says half of them have.

And only if I meet Crowfood's price. Mance Raider's skull for a drinking cup and a pardon for his brother, Horsbane, who's riding for Bolton right now. Godrey Farring then makes fun of Horsbane. And he's like, did he bite the head off a sex worker? Assholes. Truly, Sir Clayton sucks

and Godry farting. Oh my God. This is who they are for me in my head. John Cooley tells him that he kind of did actually when he tried to rob him in Old Town.

Odd as it might seem, old whore Frost Umber had once believed his youngest son had the makings of a maester. Moors loved to boast about the crow who took his eye, but Hathor's tale was only told in whispers, most like because the whore he'd disemboweled had been a man. Yep, I just thought it was an interesting story. It is an interesting story.

John asks who else has declared for Bolton and melisandre gives what she's seen a town with wooden walls and streets with banners above a moose a battle axe three pine trees long axes beneath a crown a horse with fiery eyes hornwood sirwin tallheart riswell and dustin she is of course seeing those who are gathered for Bolton. Clayton Suggs names them traitors. Suggs. He names them traitors and Lannister lapdogs, but Jon argues against it.

He says Rizwell and Dustin are allied by marriage and the rest of the people have no lords lost in the fight. And we all know Jon doesn't really care deep down at all about the north right that's not what he what he cares about even though he's justifying them following the boltons because they had no stark to guide them dot dot dot dot dot dot dot of course john doesn't care who would care about the? Yeah. The choosing has always been hard. And also crow food, a lap dog,

get real. Yeah. No. Definitely not. The Umbers do their own thing. Yeah. Stannis comments that the Umbers made it clear Umber will not fight Umber, though. And Jon says, well, if it comes to that, just keep them apart in battle. And then Giant Slayer, Sir godrey farting counters that they should burn last hearth and mount crow food's head into battle to teach them a lesson yeah that sounds like a good idea which

i wonder if this is something that has to do with as you'll all remember there is an excerpt from an chapter and by that i mean we really really really zoomed in on george at his computer and that was like my day and fucking ad-libbed it until it made sense it worked all right no it does we definitely real. Like this is, it might've been edited since then, since, you know, it was still on his computer in WordStar. Oh my God. All right.

WordStar. WordStar. Yeah. Now that you say that, I think this has to tie in. So John is like, that would be a great idea if you want them all to hate you, idiot. And they argue back and forth about secession in Last Hearth.

And John roasts his cowardice a few times before Justin Massey pipes it and tells Godry to cool it. Finally, Stannis interrupts and he's like, girls, girls. And he asks for John to attend him. Yep. How can you not appreciate Justin Massey in this this moment he's good he's good i i appreciate it but i mean like you shouldn't have to appreciate someone acting normal that's true he's it's just more of like the bar is so low among the people stannis keeps around himself no yeah like davos is so high like no one can like reach that even even

amongst a bunch of the other people and all the other groups right yeah it's just justin massey's cool it's just he's doing absolutely the least he is but it's more than everyone else i love how jolly he is though like later on is he jolly i mean like when they take Asha, even. I guess. I kind of think of him as... He reminds me of the squeaky emo care boy thing. I feel like he's really smarmy and cheerful, but also sly. Interesting. We have different ideas of Justin Massey. Well, we're going to explore this more. Yeah. of just nasty well we're gonna explore this more yeah i think i find him amusing but i find that he

could potentially be a more annoying person than well he's definitely annoying oh that's part of why she likes it maybe dana says that he cannot wait longer for the free folk to descend on them and that he has to deal with other foes. And Jon begins to preach that, well, I'm sorry, the Watch can't help you. You have to- and Stannis is like, alright, spare me the vows, we each have heard it like 20 times. Tonight. Right? Yeah, right.

And tells him, I hope to march against the Dreadfort. This surprises Jon. And then, gasp. What? No way. Stannis. Stannis smiles. This is a big moment. I don't think he's done this.

When we had Scad on, you were like, whoa, Stannis just smiled, and Scad was like, two out of the three times that Stannis smiles in this whole story are with Jon. And I'm like, wow. So this is the second. This must be, yeah. Jon is very surprised and Stannis is happy

about that because he thinks if I can surprise one bastard, one snow, because they're similar at all, it might surprise another snow. Because that's how it works. Just so you know. Traits are passed down through your common bastard name.

Words are a construct. They're just a social construct. While Ramsay is busy receiving his father at the neck, you know, that sounds dirtier than I wanted it to be, he plans to take the Dreadfort and its harvest unawares, but Jon interrupts Stannis and says, no, you're not going to do that. You'd have to go down the King's Road, past Last River, turn south by east,

and cross the Lonely Hills and go through Umberlands, where Mors will cut them to pieces, unless Stannis wins against Mors and brings him to his cause. If he does that, then they'll hit the Dreadfort, but they have to travel faster than ravens or beacon fires, because otherwise they'll be sieging the Dreadfort. St they have to travel faster than ravens or beacon fires because otherwise they'll be sieging the Dreadfort. Stannis thinks they'll be fine. Ramsay and Bruce will be busy in the neck, but Jon says Moat Catelyn is going to fall before Stannis can even get to the Dreadfort, and then their men will outnumber him five to one. Yikes. That's not really a good, uh, good odds.

Yikes. Yikes. That's not really a good odds. They're not great odds, but also, I mean, Sanus just gave his plan away, which means it was going to fail. So good thing Jon's telling him here, like, that's a bad idea. Because you already told me, and now the whole audience knows, and now I know it's not going to work. Exactly.

There's this imagery in this scene of wax falling onto the map at the Bay of Seals, and this feels like something that could be maybe foreshadowing, like the Bay of Seals is where Skagos is. I don't know if it means anything. There's potential. It's gotta be something about Davos. Maybe, yeah. So, Justin Massey doubts that Moat Cailin will fall quickly,

because the Iron Men being doughty fighters, and that it's never been taken before, and Jon's like, from the south, but from the north, it's different. Seamus is like, well, those ruins are vulnerable from the north and the east. And then Jon thinks, The Watch takes no part. Baratheon and Bolton should be the same to me. I mean, I don't blame him for it being different. They're pretty different.

Yeah, they are different. I mean... Even within their family, they're pretty different. Yeah, but it's... Turns out having the same last name. Yeah, it's not the same, though. It's not the same. He is fucking up, though same he is fucking up though he is

fucking up here because he he is literally in one hand saying i should not help stannis and then the other hand he's like what if i did though and it makes sense he's giving him all his northern knowledge because john can't use it he can't use that knowledge and he thinks there's a chance stannis could bring some justice into this world that's been taken from everyone, even if he isn't perfect. I think that's the most appealing part of Stannis to me or anyone, right? He brings justice, but he also brings justice.

That's the thing, right? And you can see for every character in the story, he's a means to an end to escape a current position, but he's not their first choice. And not their last, either. Right, their first choice was Robert, who offered mercy. Yeah. With all this talk, and all the knowledge that John is giving Stannis, we see that John is in fact kind of like Rob here.

we see that john is in fact kind of like rob here he's good at strategy he's good at military strategy because he like lays it all out for stanis of why it's not gonna work and john is right and the book argues that john was right in everything that he tells stanis and shows that he has a good mind for this because yeah moat cailin does fall quickly because before we did the john chapters we all did the theon and reek chapters and we saw that happen so he knows all right it falls through treachery rather than through battle as john thinks it could but turns out just like rob john is not so great at politics which is why he's fucking up here but also, you know, the whole end of the book goes the way it does. Interesting. I didn't think really about that. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely weak on the politics.

I think we know that, obviously. Yeah. He tells Stannis that if Roose catches them, it'll be the end for them all. Richard Horpe says, well, risk is part of war, though. Every battle is a gamble, Snow. The man who does nothing also takes a risk. Fight every battle in your mind. In your mind.

Horpe doesn't say that. That's literally what I felt. Yes. Fight every battle. I do like this line, though. It reminds me of Eddard Stark. It reminds me of Dorian Martell, even. Wait for it from Hamilton comes to mind. You wouldn't understand that.

No, but you didn't understand my sound of music reference just now. Exactly. So we're good. I was in the sound of music also. So I should have. Were you? Yeah, I was. I was Liesl.

I'm learning so much about you all the time. But John is doing nothing instead of something, right? He doesn't get to choose. He keeps not getting to choose, not having the choice. But when that final chance to choose comes, what does he choose? Will this line haunt him throughout the rest of the books when he comes back to life, you think? The man who does nothing also takes a risk. Hmm. I think it could. Like, as you said, it's reminiscent of Dorne Martell and his inaction.

That must be more than one man's honor. The man who does nothing also takes a risk. Yeah. What will you choose, John? I could see Richard Horpe's line coming back to haunt him. I think there's something interesting about Richard Horpe and his sigil being, what, three moths? Drawn to, what, the flame of Melisandre and the war? I love that. And then, I don't know, could be drawn to John when he comes back from the dead and they're like well maybe

R'hllor chose this guy because he's been resurrected who knows yeah there's no way that John coming back to life helps Stannis in any way shape or form like your sword isn't even warm Stannis John coming back from the dead is basically

the Katie Heron feeding Regina George those bars. God. Thank you, Craig Mulvey, for the suggestion as I steal Chloe's essay. How to end a podcast by Craig Mulvey. John worries that they're taking all this stuff too lightly and then tells them about Harlan Stark's siege centuries ago and how it took him two years to starve them out. And Stannis says, well, Karstark wrote me that 50 men are left at the Dreadfort

and half of them are servants. And the Karstarks are totally going to join at the Dreadfort. And they have free folk as well. 300 fighting men. Stannis means to arm the free folk. free folk as well. 300 fighting men. Stannis means to arm the free folk, and then Jon realizes that arming them means

arming them with the Night Splash's weaponry. Every single day, Stannis just takes more. And more. If you give a stag a cookie, he's gonna burn it. Oh my god. I don't want to eat

cookies. Also, Jon here, on one hand, as you said, he's like, I don't want to eat cookies. Also, Jon here, like, on one hand, as you said, he's like, I don't want to support Stannis. But again, he's totally like, I do, but only to an extent, not with any actual action. And if Jon doesn't offer counsel, I almost wonder, does Stannis still take all this stuff? And then Jon feeling that he has to acquiesce to Stannis well again it comes back to Varys' riddle this time though with swords being swords kind of hanging over the Night's Watch

I mean this is the price it is to stand at that table and be in that war council Jon is a part of this war whether or not he thinks that it counts yeah doing nothing is also a risk yeah oh that was a great catch on this chapter thanks john reluctantly offers 300 spears and some old rusted helms magnar asks about armor but john says no there's no armorer because noi is dead we have nothing

you can't have armor. He also leaves out the thought that plate and mail would make the free folk more of a threat to the realm. So he's balancing all these things. And he, it's interesting because he kind of like is acting like by protecting the realm from the free folk. It's okay that he's letting Stannis do what he's doing. Like it's a trade-off.

Like I have to balance it. Stannis do what he's doing. Like, it's a trade-off. Like, I have to balance it. Stannis can have a tiny bit of this. The Free Folk can have this, but they still have to do this. Yeah, I don't know. Godry says that they're going to loot the dead anyways, though. Great. Jon convinces Stannis, you know what, just leave the Free Folk here. It's fine.

And besides, the Umbras aren't going to like the Free Folk, considering, you know, they stole Crowfood's daughter, right? It's just going gonna like the free folk considering you know they stole crow food's daughter right it's just gonna turn the bannerman against you sandys is like well they're never gonna even like me at this rate no shit he sends his men away and he's like john you get to stay i'm gonna tell you about my personal problems everyone else follows each other out and happy that this bastard boy commander is staying in Rattleshirt is the last out, giving Jon a mocking bow through

broken teeth. And truly, Mance is just getting off on this so much. Such bard vibes here. Bard illusion magic is fun, everyone. And you play Dungeons and Dragons. Melisandre is left behind, and Devon is serving them. Stannis drinks his lemon water and he tells

Jon the Queen's men all aspire to own Winterfell okay um that's a downgrade even not from Ramsay but I mean in life uh Massey wants the seat and Val and Horp would take Val

as long as he has battle and glory. The wording here is so uncomfortable to me, like in the context of earlier with Ed saying that, oh, these people are here because we're gonna eat them, and raising that specter of cannibalism, which is absolutely, again, gonna come to the forefront of the story in the winds of winter when

all the food stores start running out, which we've been discussing throughout this chapter, but the line says, Massey wants the wildling princess too he once served my brother robert a squire and acquired his taste for female flesh i didn't think of it this way i think that there's something kind of uncanny maybe thematically going on here maybe george is trying to link these ideas of what sex and the literal consumption of flesh. And I mean, we're about to see that with Melisandre at some point and Shireen and Stannis, I'm sure. Yeah. The consumption of flesh with fire.

Yes, fire consumes. Yep. Hmm. Yeah, it's definitely playing around. And these chapters all have this kind of dark edge to it now. Mm-hmm. It's definitely creepy. Another thing that I thought was interesting is that Horp would have been a Kingsguard had Cersei not spoken out against it.

Yeah. Is Horp gunning for that position? He's like, maybe if Stannisis is king i can finally get that job i wanted yeah maybe maybe he's thinking of a different job even now uh but i just thought that lord of winterfell yeah right exactly but it sounds like he doesn't want that right didn't you just say he just wants battle and glory and what uh that's a pretty wife i guess yeah he'd be it was funny because it was phrased like Val's just secondary to him.

He's like, yeah, that works. Stannis asks Jon who he wants as Winterfell, the smiler or the slayer. Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa. Damn straight it does. I have heard all I need to hear of Lady Lannister and her claim.

The king set the cup aside. You could bring the north to me. Your father's bannermen would rally to the son of Eddard Stark, even lord too fat to sit a horse. White Harbor would give me a ready source of supply and a secure base

to which I could retreat and need. It is not too late to amend your folly, Snow. Take a knee and swear that bastard sword to me and rise as John Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North. How many times will he make me say it? My sword is sworn to the knight's watch. I love the setup here that he just a little bit ago was explaining how the north was different, that the umbers would follow secession, that their children of the lord's body would inherit before uncles. And then, of course, you get the line that Winterfell is Sansa's. When Alistair Karstark shows up at the wall, of course, you get the line that Winterfell is Sansa's. When Alice Karstark shows up at the wall,

he saves her claim as well, right? We're very much so focusing on Arya in a lot of these chapters when it comes to Jon, but he is thinking on Sansa a lot, whether or not we've shown it. When he gets the pink letter, yes, it's directly regarding Arya, but he thinks of Sansa, too, brushing out Lady's coat. This is definitely a home. He wants to exact what little justice he can in the North for these girls that resemble his sisters with their claims and their lives stripped away from them

too fast and too young. It's what we want too, right? Obviously this is what we want. We want justice for these girls. When you put it into terms of him being in upper management at the wall though it changes the way he goes about it being okay and i guess that's something we could say about daenerys as well right in her choices i suppose that we want those things too but their positions change when with what they should be doing and what vows they've undertaken.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point in the way that John has been looking at the way... I mean, he's really just internalized how succession works, as you were saying, and protects a lot of those claims. Part of it is because he's like, well, that's the way things are. And maybe part of it is internally him proving like well that's the way things are and maybe part of it is internally him proving like i know the way succession works i would never i wouldn't do it because he was just so traumatized by being told that he was going to break it all yeah that's

true too so he tries to hold keep the rules intact and play by the rules even though he's just skirting them a little here with a Night's Watch. And he's probably going to break them anyway. Yeah. Stannis says it makes no matter if he gives the North to anyone. It would likely be to Arnulf Karstark. He calls him a good Northman and Jon corrects him and says, A Northman.

Burn. Great, I love it. Such a good R'hllor. Burn. Far consumed. Miss R'hllor. a northman burn i love it such a good relore burn i love also that he's having like an opinion on a man a couple books ago he was like getting drunk the first time and now he's having opinions of men and their skills lord commander snow indeed oh i forgot that we saw Jon get drunk for the first time it was so long ago

we've been doing these chapters for forever I know but regarding you know a Northman and Arnulf Karsark my god Stannis is so fucking lucky that Theon shows up oh yeah absolutely and

seriously because had Theon not showed. Oh yeah, absolutely. Seriously, because had Theon not showed up and saved the day, Stanis would be over with and we would have just made fun of him. Yeah, true. I mean, nothing's stopping us still, but... Jon does think, because he doesn't know any better

right now, that it's better a car strike than Bolton or Greyjoy. Turns out it's better Greyjoy right now. Anyways, it doesn't comfort him, especially since they had all abandoned Robb's cause. Sanus argues, like, well, I mean, he kind of has Stark blood. It's in his name, right? And Arnulf was like a thousand leagues away from all these events. and Arnulf was like a thousand leagues away from all these events. They start to fight very specifically about this, about his strength

and his airs, and Jon pushes that Mor's crow food is who Stannis needs to focus on. Focus, Stannis. Jon tells him that Manderly banners didn't fly in Melisandre's visions. They still have a chance, and if he only had White Harbor, but they had no

word of Lord Davos since he left, and may never have reached Lord Manderly. Stannis has no time to grieve or wait, and he must forge on, hoping to win the North through battle. He has this passage that we have to read because it kills me. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one. I must deal my foes a mortal blow before they know that I am on them. John realized that his words were wasted. Stannis would take the dreadfort or die in the attempt.

The Night's Watch takes no part, a voice said. But another replied, Stannis fights for the realm realm the iron men for thralls and plunder there are no protest votes in war y'all take the dread for a die try oh my god I just really wanted to say that oh my god thanks for the take

sometimes you just have urges yes Jon makes a new play sometimes you just have urges yes Jon makes a new play give free folk to the watch leave them here and then why don't you, Stannis, go into the mountains to find support from the mountain clans

go stay busy yeah and Stannis is like but I gave you rattle shirt but the language of Jon here reminds me actually of Daenerys Yeah, and Samus is like, but I gave you rattle shirt! But the language of Jon here reminds me actually of Daenerys in the Storm of Swords. And it shows you very much why these

two people would be so drawn to each other, because Jon is thinking, like, of course, as we said, of the realm and the danger that the Free Folk might be to them, but he's also thinking of the Free Folk's safety. And he's like, I don't know, they don't really have a part in this war.

Right? And he says to Stannis, I want them all. And remembering that in theory, in terms of the way that these chapters would have been structured, it would have come shortly after Storm of Swords in theory, but you know,

there's a whole gap of time and then the chapters got all divided so it actually took like nine years. Whatever. Whatever. There's poetry to Daenerys saying and thinking a very similar line with the Masters in Astapor and how both Dany and

Jon haggle to get them all. So Missandei goes, all the slave girl sounded very, your grace, did this one's worthless ears mishear you all? Missandei, don't say that about yourself.

Cool green light filtered down, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, your ears heard true,

said Danny. I want to buy them all. Tell the good masters, if you will. And then later on she reiterates it inside herself. I will have them all, no matter the price. That's a great catch.

They mirror each other, right? You can see why they would, I was going to say, see themselves in one another, but Yeah. Foresight. Literally. So I thought that was really interesting that he says it like that.

I get $2 for me. Two whole dollars. I tip you. I tip you for your thoughts. $1 for John, $1 for Danny. Two bucks of ice and fire. Wow, two stags. So he'll have to go to them himself, to the mountain clans. of ice and fire. Wow, two stags. So he'll have to go to them himself

to the mountain clans. Stannis is going to have to traverse there. They haven't seen a king since Torrhen Stark bent the knee. So it'll mean a lot if he goes all the way into those mountains. There's Flint, Wool, Nori, Little. Jon says if he wins over Big Bucket Wool

or Old Flint, then they would all flock to him i think that's it this is like big bucket and then he's like wall john's like wool yes we've discussed this before but this was just as much inspired by ned as it was by mance uh who went to all of the different free folk tribes to unite them uh especially you know with that line of the clans have not seen a king since Torin Stark-Bentheny. Your coming does them honor,

command, and they will look at one another and say, who is this man? He's no king of mine. And it's absolutely similar, right? To the Free Folk, especially because in many ways their cultures have the same roots. They share that and, again, that they have not seen a king in four fucking ever for them it's been since tor and stark which is like damn that was a long ass time ago yeah and for the free

folk probably similarly as long i i don't remember which was the last king beyond the wall but they're rare you can't rule them you can only lead them yes oh i like that thank you and that goes back to us saying well stannis's leadership skills so stannis has to pass through nori lands with guides to get to big bucket wool which stannis sounds unhappy about tiny slow moving goat trails would take him there. He feels like Jon is wasting his time, which kind of sounds like it a little. But Jon says the young dragon conquered Dorne using a goat track to bypass Dornish watchtowers. And of course, Jon knows what the young dragon did, because as we've discussed in Memories of Jon, the young dragon is one of his childhood heroes.

And the best part of this is that, like, Stannis responds exactly how you'd expect. Like, listen here, youngster. And he's like, it was ships that won the war, not goat tracks. Oaken fist ships broke Planky Town and swept up the green blood while the main strength was busy in the past. And he's like, this is my, this is what really happened in the war, kiddo. It's funny. They funny they're very like stubborn

buck heads yeah in my day we had to climb both ways yeah I had to climb up Davos' little tiny ship to get onions we were almost eating people take that and John's probably like we're gonna start eating people

Stanislaus well okay eating people. Take that. And Jon's probably like, we're gonna start eating people. Stannis asks, well, okay. Are the Noris gonna hinder my passage? And Jon responds, only with feasts. This reminds me of the Dornish right now. Because the Dornish have Balon Swan

being feasted on the way down to Myrcella. And it almost makes me wonder if Jon did want this to get Stannis away for a while. Go do something else where Stannis. Yeah. Huh. I got there. Yeah.

Go somewhere else. Go eat someone else's fucking food. Not ours. Yeah, absolutely. I think Jon was definitely looking for a kill switch on the food suckage. Yeah. Leave your lemons here, though. Thanks.

suckage. Yeah. Leave your lemons here, though. Thanks. And John warns, maybe also while you're doing this, I don't know if Melisandre's gonna be welcome. And turns out, she's like, I plan to stay at the wall anyways.

John's face. The little line emoji, like a line for Mel. Stares into camera. He's like, I did not invite you, but okay. When corporate won't leave, he asks John where he should lead his new troops, if not against the Dreadfort, and John says he should fight the Iron Men,

if Bolton means to, and that he should take Deepwood Mott. John says his host can move unseen there. Stannis rubbed his jaw. When Balon Greyjoy rose the first time, I beat the Ironmen at sea, where they are fiercest. On land, taken unawares, aye. I have won a victory over the wildlings and they're a king beyond the wall. If I can smash the Ironmen

as well, the North will know it has a king again. And I will have a thousand wildlings, thought John, and no way to feed even half that number. Oh man. I love that Stannis had to pep talk himself there, like,

but I'm Stannis. I'm great. I can do this. Yeah. Pats himself on the back. This is fine, right? I did this. I did this. Good job, me.

I killed the king beyond the wall. Oh, but he didn't. Like, very much so didn't. Even if it was him, he didn't. Someone has to just tell, like, I wish someone would just be like, Stannis, you did a good job. Maybe that would help him.'t someone has to just tell like i wish someone would just be like sanasi did a good job maybe that would help him because he has to tell himself too late far too late for that this whole thing though with john thinking like all right shit now i'm gonna have a thousand wildlings and no way to feed him another thing that's like similar between him

and denarius especially denarius at the ends of book one beginning of book two but also like in the middle of book three when she's like alright now I have all these unsullied shit and her dragons how am I gonna feed them yeah I mean she's left at the end of book one with nothing she's

like alright great I'm gonna walk all these people through the red waste we don't we have nothing what are are we going to do? Guess we'll figure it out. We'll wing it. Yeah. Like dragon, wing it. Oh, oh.

I'll go. I mean, she's doing a pretty good job winging it to the age. Very Daenerys. Lots of parallels in here. We're seeing more and more as their leadership kind of goes awry. For sure. How? Everything gets more difficult for the both of them.

Well, that was John 4. As we talked about at the top of the episode, we will be putting John 5 out for the public on November 8th. You will have a little bit of a break from us and we will have his dark materials episodes coming out in that time so keep your eyes peeled for that yep so if you're tired of john chapters maybe you know join the rest of us right we're really excited to watch the his dark materials television series pick of the books the first one's like a pretty fast read yeah it's like 300 400 google playbook pages it's easy yeah and like it's written for young adults to be able to read it's it's pretty

it's pretty fast to go through you can catch up listen to the episodes absolutely watch the series it's fun it's all going to be really good the series is good there's books coming out there's side books there are that's right it's ongoing but also finished no shade

I would never anyways but in the meantime in case you forget about when next john episodes coming out or you want to keep track of when each of these his dark materials episodes come out since we don't necessarily have like the exact dates that they're going to be out right follow us on social media you can find us at girls gone canon on twitter or you know shoot us an email on girls gone canon at gmail.com and you can subscribe to us on a podcast platform,

whichever is your favorite. You can likely find us on, but we are featured on iTunes, on Google play on Spotify, on a cast on Stitcher on pod bean. There's a couple other in there. There's tons. On dancer on Vixen.

Turns out I actually don't know all the names of the reindeer. Stannis? Renly? Oh my god. Robert the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Oh. Had a little much to drink. Stannis never

got his sleigh off the ground to give never mind anyways so patreon episodes of course we have those for patrons who subscribe five dollars and up this month though we are going to do a his dark materials episode based around the golden compass movie especially with you know the new live action coming out soon. And not a Patreon episode, but again, coming back to those His Dark Materials episodes that we are putting out free for the public to listen to. We do have a special guest that we have met

through the Song of Ice and Fire fandom joining us for that. Yes, Tana Ford from Westeros Whenever Lee is coming on. We're so happy and grateful and just appreciative that she's coming on but it's going to be a great time she's an amazing artist uh so she'll be on our episode coming out next yes northern light slash the golden compass chapter 16 and 17 then we start part three and we are on our kind of our home run from the end of the book there. We have two more episodes. So three episodes total coming out, coming soon.

Well, thank you so much for listening, you guys. We will come back here with you for John in November. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Bye, guys. Goodbye.