Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 92 - AFFC Jaime IV

Episode Date: June 12, 2020

Jaime makes a stop that's not on the way to Riverrun but is on the way to his character development. He catches up with good ol' cousin Lancel, who confesses, "I wanted to be you." --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 92, Jamie Ford in A Feast for Crows. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Well, well, well, look what the cat dragged back to dairy. It's Jamie Lannister. Cat's dead. It's not cat. What? I mean, is she? Is she? I mean, there's gonna talk about that. Conflicting rumors I'm hearing about that one.

I don't know. Dude. Jamie 4 is exciting. I'm very excited to do this chapter. I'm also very excited for the rest of Jamie. I can't believe I'm saying those words. I've never said I would say those words out loud in my life that I'm excited for Jamie Lansdor.

But I'm more excited for rounding his chapters out with some pretty cool guests. Yes. I'm pretty excited about that. We've talked to a couple people and are gonna bring them on soon and very excited about that. Yes, stay tuned for

that. We will definitely be revealing that. Hopefully next week's episode we'll have one for you. And that's not the only thing we'll be revealing i know a couple of our patrons should be on the lookout for a pov reveal sometime in the near future in their inboxes over at patreon.com slash girls gone canon get excited about that wow who is our next movie even i don't even know it'll be revealed to me it'll be a surprise for all of us also i want to put a disclaimer sorry if my audio is a little different this week and having a lot of technical issues that'll hopefully be resolved soon so using a different microphone than usual yes yes new new situations

new environments and yes new emails and tweets of note well maybe not emails or tweet but we did get a review from one of our friends it looks like eliana you want to take this one since you love reviews i could do it i don't i'm still not sure where she gets that idea from it's been we've been doing this for like two years now right something like that don't know where she gets that idea from but we did get an iTunes review from I'm going to just say these words

these letters together the Edwin Benoit saying entertaining and insightful up there with the Radio Westeros is one of my two favorite asswath podcasts minus one star for their barest and somi hot take plus

one star for the Jon Snow impression oh so I both simultaneously ruined it and improved it yeah the review is also entitled Five Stars, in parentheses, after some math.

So I don't remember what the subject was, but yeah. I'm very sorry that you had to do math because I do not. I don't want you to have to. Just before this episode, we were like, I don't know, math. Well, thank you so much for listening. I'm really glad that my Jon Snow impression, which, God, I don't even math well thank you so much for listening i'm really glad that my john snow impression which god i don't even know if i could do it anymore it's been months now how does it my queen is that it that was that was mostly it i think i think you still got it in you

still no interest everyone has a little john snow in them right yeah wait i think ghost does at the very least but yeah uh i'm assuming based on this username that maybe this person will know what i mean when i'm like but i'm in salamat adrian pinoy so review more so but yeah but also speaking of guests and you being up there with Radio Westeros. Yeah, I was just on Radio Westeros. Oh, what was it? Like a couple weeks ago discussing Sansa Stark with Lady Gwyn and Yolk Boy. And we had a really good time.

As you all know, I don't like Sansa Stark. Never cared for the girl. Never talked about her in my life. So it was a little weird that they invited me on, but I was there. We'll put a link in the description. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm a liar. I'm a terrible liar. Of course I love Sansa. We'll put a link in the description. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm a liar.

I'm a terrible liar. Of course I love Sansa. We'll put a link in the description. It was a blast. We got to talk about her future, the Winds of Winter, the whole Queen in the North thing. All that jazz. It was fun. Yeah. Also we have a lister. I'll have to look up who this is quickly at some point. But

she's way behind. She's way behind i think where we are in the podcast now so eventually she's gonna get to this and i see you leaving comments on our sansa podcasts from back then and we're gonna address those at some point but thank you for your support yes i i know that that might actually be what you like more than reviews which are the pod bean comments those are always a surprise. I mean, once you figured out how to look at them. Both of them are surprising. But without further ado, we have a very short lightning round this week.

Last week's was loaded. We had, what, like 10 chapters, I think, between Jamie 3 and 2. So this week we only have two. We start off our lightning round with Cersei's six. Cersei arms the faith, scrolls across the screen. Oh my god, it's really the backdrop for this chapter in many ways, but then we also

have the reaver, Victarion Greyjoy, plays the long game, telling his brother that he'll retrieve his fair maid but in his heart, knowing that he plans on cucking the fuck out of him.

I mean, that is basically the end of the chapter. He's like, yeah, I'll bring your woman to you after I bang her. It's like, alright, Victarion, you think that. You think that, Victarion. I will see how the Dothraki see. Great joy. You love to hate him. You know? Love to hate him.

Some people really love him. Like, genuinely so. That brings us, of course, into this chapter, Jamie 4. Jamie stares at the ghost of his cousin, Lancel, and they both come to terms with their sins. Whoa. That one's really good. Thanks. Pretty short, pretty quick, pretty sweet. Yeah.

Moved a little? Are you moved? I am moved. I am. It's a moving chapter in many ways. Like, it starts out with the burnt crops outside Derry were being pulled and burnt by women and oxen. Bearded men with axes guarding them as they work. They flee within the hall as the Kingslayer approaches.

Derry is closed. Jamie thinks it's a chilly welcome from his own blood though, and commands Kenos of Case to let the Horn of Herak blow. This book is so horny. Have you noticed that? It is a horny book. And what's interesting about this Horn of Herak,

we talked a little bit about Kase's original Ironborn roots last episode, but this horn is based off of Herak of House Kenning, who was the Ironborn warrior that founded Kenos's family tree, basically. In the world of Ice and Fire, we learn a tiny bit more. There's not a ton about it,

but the Horn of Herak is passed down from Herak's descendants. He was called Herak the Whoreon because he would blow his horn at cities, and the sex workers in these cities would open a postern gate for him to slip in and take the town. This is how he captured and held Casterly Rock for the Lannisters. So right now you have Kenos of Kais blowing horns to open, which we will of course see later when he goes to the Riverlands as well. He blows a horn to open there to take something for House Lannister.

There are three different ironborn kings that tried to take Casterly Rock back, and Herak actually killed two out of three of those kings personally. So the other one died, but two of them were straight up by hand by Herak. So interesting, interesting tomes interesting tidbits of history it is interesting i feel like this whole thing with the horns not necessarily with herak but what you're seeing here this is going to come into play at some point eventually but also later on his dick is called a horn that's important for this chapter it's's horny. It's a very

horny chapter. It is. It is. The flag flying ahead is quartered. The Lannister lion and the dairy plowman. Plowman? Horny. Yeah, someone in Derry is trying to get plowed. It's Amory. Jamie thinks this is all likely Kevin's

work. You know, like marrying this marriage with Amory was, which is actually a smart move for Lancel, making it look like a continuation of the old line instead of Aranda ruling their lands. Lancel's got a decent head in many ways. He's just like 17. I feel bad for that boy constantly.

Jamie thinks Kevin would make a far better hand to Tommen than Harry Swift, who is a toad and I mean yes yeah Harry's is like a complete toad when you think about it because and it actually reminds me something that reminds me of John's chapters remember Raymond Redbeard and how he like offered up his kids

and was like yeah you take this kid and like sells him off and everyone's just staring yeah his daughter and this is what it reminds me of because that is what harry swift did harry's daughter dorna who is married to kevin was a hostage kevin married a hostage that he took oh you ever think of that no i didn't know that good behavior that's what dorna was and then he married her after and harry's is just like cool with that? I don't know.

Kind of wild to me. Kind of gross. Something that I found on Reddit that I always loved, and I don't remember the user's name, and they deleted their account, but they, I have a link for us, but they basically did. I know, right? Good for you. I wish I could delete my account. I wish I could log off.

This person basically, after completing a dance with dragons, they realize that every time Harry Swift is mentioned, you get some sort of interesting comedic story. And he's kind of like George's favorite butt monkey, the person goes on to say. In a Game of Thrones- Wait, sorry, can we pause? Can I get a definition of butt monkey? No, you may not. Okay. Rejected. In a Game of Thrones, Harry criticizes Jaime and pisses off the Lannisters.

In a Clash of Kings, he goes to Harrenhal with Tywin. He pisses off the cooks, and they all spit in his food. His squire taunts the bloody mummers and gets killed. Harry is forced to hug and kiss Vargo Hote to make up for that disagreement with the squire. During the Battle of the Blackwater, Harry spends the

battle under his horse. He's eventually rescued by a man named Willett. In a feast for crows, he's briefly made hand of the king, only qualifying feature being his stupidity, like Cersei likes. He's soon demoted to Master of Coin before he can do anything of importance. And then as Master of Coin, he's sent all the the way to bravos to sort out the king's landing financial mess because obviously he has no money and this person predicted that the iron bank of bravos will decide that they want to force the lannisters to pay their debt starting with sir harry's life and that his body would be sent back to king's landing tarred and feathered because his house sigil is a big blue cock. Oh. I thought that was very clever. I was like, I bet we'll see that.

I really do. You're right. I think we definitely will. Especially when you think of, like, the Lysini Spring from Fire and Blood. Yeah. And everything going on with the three cities. That's what we're always talking about. But, yeah, that's some butt monkey stuff some butt monkey stuff

i'm going by context clues all right i'm using my work computer eliana i can't google it you can't just google butt monkey no but i have been googling harry swift all day okay yeah and his big blue cock and his big blue cock Jaime informs Strongborn that they'll need to camp beneath the western wall and prepare against outlaws he spurs Honor the horse as you'll all remember toward the gate with the Kingsguard standard blaring Jaime had turns out dispatched Red Ronnet

to bring Willis to Maidenpool so they wouldn't have any more little fights because he was tired of looking at I don't know Brienne's ex-boyfriend and Pia came along with them and she's on a gelding that peck found for her yes right now she's riding the gelding later she'll ride peck sorry i mean it's true jamie hears her in the background calling dairy a toy castle and he reflects that every castle except probably the rock would

seem small to Pia. There's really something so Sansa-like about Pia, like we discussed last chapter, just the way he treats her as kind of this chance for honor, and as we talk about Arya later in this chapter, that's probably something to think about too. Something about this idea of a toy castle, though, feels very Sansa-like to me. It reminds me a bit of A Storm of Swords Chapter 7 for Sansa, with Robert Arryn and his toy, with his doll, and the toy castle built out of snow. It also reminds me, speaking of Harrenhal, of some of the Harrenbowl theories. Remember those back in the day? The little old idea is basically the gist that Sansa would get married and her father, quote unquote, little fingers, keep to Harry the heir,

and Cersei somehow would find out about it, send armies after her, headed by Gregor Clegane. The Hound, of course, being nearby, would somehow show up magically, and the Mountain and the Hound would fight, and it's Clegane Bowl, it's Harren Bowl, yada yada, get hype. A bunch of other small stuff happening, yada yada yada. It doesn't really work or make sense now. I've kind of come to terms with the logistics not working, but something about that, something about that Harrenhal connection is really interesting

in the toy castle. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. And yes, there's something Sansa-esque, but in a way kind of also the reverse of that, right? Because Sansa was like, wow, all these castles are big and cool. And Pia's like, this is pretty small compared to Harrenhal. It's like, yeah, but it's a lot less burnt compared to Harrenhal.

So there's that too. But that's most places. Peck is also telling Pia the same thing. And it's like, you know what? Black Harren kind of built too big. You got to change your expectations of the world. Pia the same thing and is like you know what Black Heron kind of built too big you gotta change your expectations of the world which I want to know is this like

is Peck trying to prepare her for compensation I'm like listen Pia I am not Heron Hall is that what Peck is saying here yeah I'm not Heron Hall but I can give you dairy and look but I can make your halls moan girl that's true that's true

yep and yep jamie had decided that pia clearly has been horrendously treated by the mountains men yeah at heron hall and he's like maybe maybe peck would bring her comfort as long as she was willing. And he thinks about a recent memory where one of the mountains men had tried to rape Pia again and he commands Ilan Payne to take his head off. I had her before a thousand times, he kept saying as they forced him to his knees. A hundred times, my lord, we all had her.

When Sarah Ilan presented Pia with his head, as they force him to his knees a hundred times below and we all had her when sarah illen presented pia with his head she had smiled through her ruined teeth good for you girl right i love that and there's a lot of uh head presenting going on right you have here in a feast for crows you have the mountain's head being sent to dorn which this is kind of reminiscent of and the idea of revenge but then there's also this line in Cersei too it reminds me of. The man who brought her the dwarf's head would be raised to lordship, she had proclaimed, no matter how mean and low his birth or station. In a way, Jaime refuses to bring Cersei her quote-unquote abuser's head, Tyrion's head,

but for Pia, who has suffered at the hands of abusers, he brought her an abuser's head without Pia even asking for it. I thought there was something in there that he refused to get Tyrion for Cersei, but for Pia, he'll go out of his way to exact justice for this girl who's suffered so much. She gives me those ideas of what

he actually does think is right. He's confused on Tyrion, as we're going to see in the rest of this chapter. It also reminds me of a couple of the other things, right? You pointed out the mountain, but there's also, what, Davos' head. And in Storm. This was actually shitty, though,

where Joffrey's like, I'm going to give you your brother's head. Or maybe he'll give me yours. Yeah. Derry was well on its way to being a brand new castle under Lancel's hand. Yeah, not necessarily a great one inside, but it's getting there.

The gates are oak and iron, by the way. I thought that was important, since you know me with oak and iron mentions lately. Yeah. Well, this one's different, actually. This one's different because it says, like, Oaken studded, so I didn't have it on my list. Those doors might have taken a long time. They just fucking got here.

Lannister and Frey crossbowmen guard the ramparts and chickens run at the sight of Honor and Jamie. Honor being the horse. Armed peasants solemnly stare at Jamie. Too armed, he notices, realizing, oh, they're sparrows, not just peasants. And seven-pointed stars are emerging on many of their outfits.

And a lot of this is because at around this time in the book, the faith starts, of course, coming to the forefront of the story, especially as the sparrows, who are armed now, because Cersei lifted the ban on them wielding weapons like the other chapter ago. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

It's gonna go great for everyone. Jaime's gonna be like, what the fuck is happening? The maester greets the unexpected visitors. The maester also like, what the fuck is happening? And Jaime lies and says, Derry was on his way to Riverrun. Yeah, but we know that this stop at Derry is not a stop along the way. This stop is specifically for Jamie's conscience.

He has to know. He knows the siege will hold against Riverrun, and if he's lucky, maybe it'll end and he won't even need to fight House Tully and raise arms against them. He learns that Kevin, the only uncle he has left, has taken off from Derry already, and the maester confirms they really can't hold and feed a thousand of Jamie's gallant men. Jamie was already prepared for that. The maester introduces himself as Maester Otto-more, not Otto-less. He apologizes for Amy's absence as she's preparing a feast for Jamie. Jamie surveys the yard. Too many sparrows. Too many frays.

He asks after Hardstone, Sir Harwin Plum, and Lancel. Harwin went out after outlaws, taking five knights and twenty archers with him, and Lancel's busy praying. Needs to be left undisturbed. So Jaime's like, okay, fine, whatever. He asks for a bath in his chambers, and thinks of all the times he had visited Derry it was twice with Cersei once on the way to Winterfell and then once on the way

back and then we have this line here of Robert Baratheon had never been loath to impose upon the hospitality of his subjects there you go Joffrey learned it from his dad yeah that was it right there that the first thing when i read that i was like oh yeah a game of thrones joffrey on the trident you know with sansa being all oh let's stop it at their house they have to give us stuff straight up got it from robert just been like a what yeah it would have just been a few weeks before or like throughout the entire this entire trip absolutely literally this is the end of the trip. Literally, he just saw his dad do it, like, the night before, because they're on the Triton.

That's true. And I mean, he saw his dad do it probably multiple times, you know? Robert's constantly like, yeah, everyone wants me here, right? I'm the life of the party, right? Yeah. He legit thinks that. Yikes.

Until he, like, pukes in your shoes. He does that.. Yikes. Until he like pukes in your shoes. He does that. The walls are bare, just like Jaime had remembered them, and Ademore says he hopes Lancel will put scenes and hangings of piety and devotion on the walls. Jaime tries not to laugh. He recalls Tyrion showing him where Derry's tapestries had once hanged by the darker square stones in the wall, and remembers how Tyrion paid a serving man to show them the missing tapestries.

He showed them to Jaime by the light of a candle, grinning, woven portraits of all the Targaryen kings from the first Aegon to the second Aenys. If I tell Robert, mayhaps he'll make me lord of the dairy, the dwarf said, chortling. Aw, they used to have fun together. You know, even though Jaime was murmuring this horrible secret but i'm not sure that this connects entirely but there's something here

that kind of just you know reminds me a little of little finger requesting the hunting tapestries from king's landing but beyond that it's also a reminder of i don't know like where do the loyalties of house dairy lie Because if you'll all recall, the man who did a lot in saving Viserys and Daenerys during the Siege of Dragonstone, and then ended up caring for them for like, I don't know, about five years or so until he died, was Ser Willem Derry. Yeah, this definitely made me think about that. And it's not exactly direct, but I do think it relates because the hunting tapestries littlefinger requests were what robert had replaced the dragon heads with on the walls where they used

to be decorating in the throne room and it's more likely these are baratheon hunting tapestries because he was supposed to have brought them from storms and two kings landing with him littlefinger would want these hopefully maybe as insurance to have a card up his sleeve for Baratheon lineage and prove the Lannisters were false, but it does beg the question then, were the Targaryen tapestries in King's Landing when it fell? Did one of the dairies

grab them and bring them home? That's an interesting idea. Thus making the split loyalties of dairy very interesting, and I mean currently we see there really is no Derry, right? Like there's Amy and Maria. That's what we have. Yeah.

But I think that's an interesting idea. Who knows? And like, maybe they were like, I don't know. Robert's never going to fucking come here, right? And he does. And they're like, shit, got to clean the house. Like i do every single time people are suddenly coming over jamie's room looks out upon the godswood and automore this is actually a solid name tells him and joins with the ladies a serving room between them he's being given the lord's room

to sleep in and jamie thinks the kindness of his cousin and he's like I didn't mean to put Lancel out but it turns out Lancel's sleeping in the sept not in his chambers anyway sleeping with the mother and the maiden when he has a warm wife just through that door Jamie did not know whether to laugh or weep maybe he's praying for his cock to harden the rumors of Lancel being incapable after his wounds in battles rolled around King's Landing, but Jaime thought he should still at least try. He wouldn't be able to secure Derry without an heir on his half-Derry heir wife. It's just, it's like one of my favorite puns. You know, his half-Derry heir wife. Yes.

And her Derry heir. Yep. I don't get a lot of joy. Considering that George doesn't talk about Dariers that much, to be honest. This is it. This is pretty much the only mention of Dariers in the entire book, Eliana. Entire book. Jamie gets the sense at this point that maybe this side quest was a bad decision,

but he thanks Maester Atomor anyway, reminds him about his bathwater, and has Peck see the Maester out. The Lord's Chambers are definitely different than the last time he'd stayed here. Before, there were mirish carpets and brand new furnishings everywhere, and Raymond Derry's bed had brown velvet draperies and oak wood posts carved with vines and leaves. It was able to sleep six. It was huge.

Now there's a lumpy straw pallet laying on stone rushes in front of the window and its eventual light in the morning. Yeah, when you think about it, that wasn't that long ago, you know? Speaking of this book series in a way. But Lancel, I too have strange themed whims when I decide to just randomly redecorate my Animal Crossing house, so I get it. Do do do do do do do

do do do Anyways, it's bath time. Bath time. It's not my favorite bath time. We all prefer a Storm of Swords bath time, but we'll take a Feast for Crows bath time. It still has some Brienne horniness, so stay tuned. Little Lou helps Jamie get nude, more like Little Lude

if you ask me, and Peck and Garrett bring the water up. Pia finds him some clean clothes and shyly watches him while she shakes his clothes out. Jamie gets a little horny, looking at Pia's curve of hip and breast in her rough-spun brown dress

and remembers the things she whispered to him at Harrenhal when Qyburn had sent her to him. He's thankful for the water cover that he soon gets, of course, shielding his boner from everyone, and then he starts to think of another bath, one he shared with Brienne, a different horniness that's deep within him. Yeah, I'm sure you all remember that chapter.

That was a big one. Very exciting. Both of those chapters actually recently steven atwill put out his essay on a storm of swords jamie six and he actually discusses jamie's boners and how it's indicative of his distancing from circe and he even talks about and i thought this was interesting like you know poor pia who at that time has been kind of coerced into having sex with all these lannister men right by kyburn and and ruse and being sent to people and soon after they leave as we know is raped several times she gets like one chance to live out her sexual fantasy as atwell points out and then she just like gets shot down yeah it's uh

it's really sad and rough for pia obviously like awful like literally awful especially having to deal with all those mountains men but that's a really interesting way to look at it especially because like these are the first boners jamie's getting that have nothing to do with Cersei. I mean, it's the first ones that we see. He might have had other boners in his life. Well, yeah, I mean, George isn't going to discuss the morning wood every morning, and he's not going to discuss all of Jamie's boners. Okay, I get it. But I'm just saying, like, this is-

Yeah, that's true. This is the first not-Cersei boner we are seeing. Yeah, these are all significant boners that are being noted here. He thinks he must remember his vows while conflating all this horniness in the bathtub, and that Pia's more fit for Tyrion's bed than his own. He sends Pia

away, asking Peck to bring soap and a stiff brush to him. He then has a super macho man-to-man chat with Peck, and he's like, do you want her? And Peck is embarrassed, and Jaime's like, if P her and Peck is embarrassed and Jamie's like if Pia will have you you should take her she can teach you new things you probably won't have any kids because she hasn't had any kids yet from everything going on and uh you need to be good

though to her and then he gives her like a really nice deep talk about how you have to be gentle with her kind soft touches and no you're not going marry her, but you should treat her like you are. And then he offers him the straw lord's bed and says, you'll feel like a lord after if Pia knows her business. Interesting, Jamie giving advice on wooing women. You have literally no experience, Jamie.

But, you know, only towards the beginning of this story do we actually hear some, like Jon, right? Jon Snow fearing having a bastard it's one of his like biggest anxieties in life yet it doesn't come up that often during his actual affair with Ygritte right his relationship with her he doesn't seem that worried about having a bastard so it's really interesting to hear Jaime calling that out here to me because it feels unique in that I don't think we really hear Tyrion or Theon right a lot of these people like worrying about having a bastard and it just

feels like it stands out in Jamie's story because I mean clearly Jamie's pretty fertile right yeah like that's a thing that happened having bastards and they were pretty fertile, right? Yeah, like, that's a thing that happened, having bastards, and they were pretty significant to this overall story. And it's a really interesting perspective to take on it, especially because as we move on in this chapter, we're going to talk about his quote-unquote three treasons that he calls it.

So that's something to definitely highlight. And it's funny that you bring up Jon and Ygritte and that idea of, like, you know, when they were sleeping together and he's like, oh, I can't have kids. I was actually unrel bring up John and Ygritte and that idea of like you know when they were sleeping together and he's like oh I can't have kids I was actually unrelating Pia with Ygritte because it's kind of similar in the way Pia says

there's a toy castle and Ygritte thinks that you know the the mill is a castle so it's kind of these weird innocences that are being shared between these two characters but in opposite ways yeah it just shows shows how the perspective the environment you grow up in

informs how you see the rest of the world. Pia, you gotta lower those standards, you know. Girl, if that's not the first thing I learned. We have this quote here of, when he descended for the feast that night, Jamie Lannister wore a doublet of

red velvet slashed with cloth of gold and a golden chain studded with black diamonds. He had strapped on his golden hand as well, polished to a fine bright sheen. There was no fit place to wear his whites. His duty awaited him at Riverrun. A darker need had brought him here. I think it's very important that Jaime is basically wearing a Cersei outfit here or a Joffrey outfit. You look back to Sansa 5 in A Game of Thrones where Joff is on the throne wearing plush black velvet slashed with crimson, a shimmering cloth of gold cape with a high collar, and on his head a golden crown crusted with rubies and black diamonds. diamonds and then in aria 5 a game of thrones you see cersei wearing her black morning gown slashed with crimson a veil of black diamonds in her hair so very similar with that crimson slash of velvet going on jamie here in this moment is embodying the lannister look because

he's here to confront his past with lancel and get truths and answers on the lannister level this is not a kingsguard mission. This is a Jaime Lannister mission. This is Jaime trying to understand what the truth is about being a Lannister. And I think that makes sense because we see that Jaime puts a lot of stock into when he wears the white cloak and when he doesn't, right? That's something that's pointed out that we discussed when he thinks upon the memory of killing Ares, right? He's very clear in those moments when he is dressing as a Lannister versus

a Kingsguard. And sometimes he feels like he doesn't belong, right? At the beginning of this book, he's like, I wish I were wearing Lannister colors right now. Yeah, and then it gets to a point where he never wants to again. Yeah, except for right now.

It's a pretty cool outfit, though. He enters the hall, crowded with tables and smoke. Lancel's seat on the dais is empty. And Lady Amory offers to Jamie that, you know, actually Lancel prefers to fast for the high septum. He notes that the 18-year-old Amory is long-legged full-breasted and healthy but her pinched chinless face reminds him of his weasel cousin cleo's rest in pieces damn uh and also he's reminded that she is in fact not working lancelot this moment and creating errors uh jamie's like i wonder if that's why kevin left so quickly and he listens to amy tell some stories

about her first husband dying at gregor clegane's sword when they were still allied with the starks old conversation topic yeah far old jamie's like oh sore subject for me she says that pate was so brave and had wanted to make a name for himself jam Jamie thinks we all do, and tells her he had sworn to best the Smiling Knight when he was a squire. She doesn't know anything about the Smiling Knight, so he tells her he was the mountain of Jamie's boyhood. Half as big, twice as mad, long dead. Amory begins to cry, and her mother, the only dairy amongst many fray relatives Amory brought over to Derry, asks Jamie to forgive her daughter. She still grieves for her father.

Outlaws killed him! sobbed Lady Amory. Father had gone out to ransom Peter Pimple. He brought them the gold they asked for, but they hung him anyway. Hanged, Amy. Your father was not a tapestry.

Lady Maria turned back to Jamieie i believe you knew him sir so it's interesting that we have this correction here of the language of what it means to be hanged versus a tapestry being hung because earlier in the chapter we actually have this line right and and you touched on it briefly The keep was much as he recalled it. The walls are still bare, Jamie observed as the maester let him down a gallery. Lord Lancel hopes one day to cover them with hangings, said Ottomore. Scenes of piety and devotion. And I don't think Ottomore thinks that Lancel's out there going to hang people. Clearly no one thinks that of Lancel. But this idea of hangings being tied to piety and devotion it's just a

thought especially like as the faith militarizes it makes me think of the line from sansa one of feast for crows when marillion is singing up in the uh the sky cells and he the line is he's saying of the dance of the dragons of fair jean quill and her fool of jenny of old stones and the prince of dragonflies he's saying of betrayals and murders most foul of hanged men and bloody vengeance he's saying of grief and sadness and of course we know that there's very much so some punctuation in this chapter regarding lady stoneheart we're about to come up on and i think a lot of the hanging that's going on here within the walls of dairy is uh really reflective of the hanging going on outside of the walls of dairy yeah true jamie

tells maria about their squiring together at craig hall him and merit fray although he also remembers you know merit frame is a bully kind of like lil walder but you can't just fucking say that to someone's widow so instead he says merrick was strong it's like the only nice thing he could say to the grieving family he was a strong boy a very strong boy amory says her father told stories of their fights against the kingswood brotherhood and jamie rightfully thinks that they are lies and boasts as merit had gotten pox from a camp follower and then caught by the white fawn the white fawn of course had burned her sigil into his ass and ransomed him back to summer i love that this is like obviously a lie the story because

amy literally just showed us she knew nothing about the Kingswood Brotherhood. Like she straight up is going to say to us, oh, yeah, well, when you killed the Smiley Knight. But at the same time, in the same hand, turn around and say, as he tells her, you know, I did not do that. That's not what happened. And she doesn't listen to the stories or listen to what Jaime's saying. However, she's not, maybe she's not paying attention to her father's war stories. And maybe Merit wasn't telling the truth. But it seems that she's kind of laying it on thick on Jaime, right?

We see that when she starts to try to convince him to stay and defend her and the keep in Lancel's name. And it kind of reminds me of the lies that Cersei tells him in a way. It kind of reminds me of the lies that Cersei tells him in a way. Because she's, you know, blinking prettily and crying and touching his golden hand and pulling back. And she uses the whole, you killed the Smiley Knight. She's doing exactly what Cersei does, right? She is flaunting herself and flirting and crying for swords to attend her and protect her. And as we near the end of the chapter, we start to understand a lot more of this kind of projection going on with jamie onto lancel and lancel onto jamie that amory is basically cerseying in this chapter yeah absolutely and i think that comes through really strongly when

you read all these chapters together all of jamie's chapters together and i just really appreciate that she she couldn't have been trying that hard right the smiley knight like okay and yeah so jamie slips his golden hand around the wine glass and lifts it to merit's memory and he's like you know maybe that'll that'll just end we can stop talking about merit if we just drink to him and i'm like that's relatable content yeah they move on and start talking about four-legged wolves at the table and how they've been attacking men and trains in the woods the fray party almost fell to them on the way in darn and adam marbrand relates to him with their journey as well good oh jamie becomes more interested in his food

he observes things happening around him like like Adam Marbrand charming a girl, Stefan Swift playing the Battle of King's Landing out with his food, Kenos puts a serving girl in his lap and urges her to stroke his horn, as we commented, and Ser Dermot is telling tales of gallantry from the Rainwood to some squires. Jaime finally turns back to Lady Maria, the only real interesting person at this table, let's

be real, asking if the outlaws that killed Merritt were Beric's group. But after tracking them through the hagsmeyer, it turns out they're less sure. The smallfolk spoke of a one-eyed man and a man who wore a yellow cloak. And a hooded, cloaked woman with terrible eyes

and a scarred face leading them. Interesting. Hoomst? Hoomst? She's gonna be in season nine. cloaked woman with terrible eyes and a scarred face leading them interesting whomst who's she's gonna be in season nine of the show you know oh the one that the books are based off of yeah yeah exactly after this moment jamie actually thinks about wenda the white faun again right who's brought up earlier as having branded merit and you know it turns out we don't actually know what happened to her after the kingswood brotherhood was disbanded and part of me kind of wonders is she gonna come up again in the story are we gonna find out what happens is she gonna return you know it's it's kind of interests me that i don't know if she will return i mean there's tons of the theories like that she's actually lamore uh that you know she's

this person that person whatever and i do think there's some merit there some merit whoa there for more merit got him i'm out of control but when you look at wanda wanda was brought up as early as a storm of swords uh and you know was carried through the plots out through the end of a dance with dragons so i think that she's being brought up for a reason but at the same time when i think about that entire group of people from the kingswood brotherhood you have like simon toyn the smiling knight oswin longneck the thrice hanged which is an interesting one meaning like he's been hanged and keeps coming back it's interesting that his name is longneck. Makes me think of Littlefoot in The Land Before Time.

Well, I was thinking more of like someone who keeps dying and coming back, right? And you have all these names like Fletcher Dick, Big Belly Ben. It does make me think that maybe it's more of just like an allegory or a related thing for you to look at the Brotherhood Without Banners and look at the Kingswood and like relate some of the characters and there's one female character and not counting Lady Stoneheart if Brienne and Jaime do end up

joining up, kind of makes me wonder if Brienne will be their current Wend of the White Fawn in the Riverlands for a little bit Interesting I wonder if there's going to be a one-to-one or something for Gendry or whatever. We'll see.

Right now we got Lady Maria and Strongboar who are very firm that Beric and Thoros were nowhere to be seen with that crew. And that everyone has actually seen Beric die now. Many different deaths. Who fucking knows. And now people are making up tales that Beric can't be killed and Lady Amry says that Ser Harwin has promised her Beric's head and that he's very gallant. Which head did he

promise you, honey? The horn. The one on his horn. His horn? She's fucking Ser Harwin everyone if you didn't catch on by now and Maester Adelmore for all I know. God. Oh, Maester Adelmore for all I know God so the rumors

about the Brotherhood without banners here though are kind of interesting with how they're mixing together I mean like that's how rumors are right like and we see that happen a lot throughout the story but you know we do know that there is a one-eyed man and we do know there's a hunted cloaked woman they don't

coexist at the same time as these rumors are saying we do know there's a hunted cloaked woman they don't coexist at the same time as these rumors are saying they do but it's both true gathering intel is hard i just thought that was that was a fun way that that was all written emery blushes beneath her tears and jamie thinks of tyrian again whatever became of giving women flowers tyrian might have asked he would have had a few choice words for harvard plum as well though Gallant would not have been one of them I enjoy that Jaime is talking to Tyrion so much in his head you know obviously we know he's going through it and Tyrion's talking to himself too right simultaneously pretty much when he's on his trip over there and he thinks things to himself too so it's a very similar kind of headspace I'm really excited to pull some of those as we keep moving forward so sir harwin's a plum but he's a little different than the plums

jamie knew who are usually loud and lusty with thick necks and red faces and yes tyrian also has his own plum that he's meeting right uh harwin is hard-eyed unforgiving and deadly wielding a hammer i think there's some interesting stuff going on here and i'm just gonna pull us all in on this allegory for amory and cersei and say harwin is kind of similar in description to break bones harwin strong from history and also to kettle blocks yeah uh and there's a little more than that too but not just in the sense of the bartering for protection for a queen or lady's love, quote unquote, or just, you know, cat. But even in the looks, right, the hard eyed, unforgiving and physically deadly, Breakbones was one of the strongest men, strongest men in the Seven Kingdoms.

And I also think Jamie's probably going to get some Robert vibes from this guy, right? With the strength and that he wields a hammer. And if you really want to connect it, a lot of these people that I'm referencing came from Harrenhal. The seed of House Strong, the Kettle Wentz, I mean the Wentz, and you can't stop me. And also from House Whore, who also had a Harwin, Harwin Hardhand. George, what are you doing here? Yeah. Yeah.

It seems like a very much so, like, Strong's reference. I get the real, I wasn't even going to mean this to be a pun, but like, I do get very strong vibes from him. Exactly. And it just reminds me, I mean, left what with cersei saying oh yes kettle black will be in charge of the king's guard so can't really be happy about this i'm sure meeting yet another strong boy yeah someone else who reminds him of all that like great especially as he's here you know meeting up with lancel he thinks of harvard though as a man to command a garrison

not a man to love she doesn't she's not saying she loves him just that she's fucking him and he has second thoughts while gazing at amory who tastes the first course and then sends it to jamie it's a river pike baked in a crust of herbs and nuts and i got real hungry when i read that sounds so good and also to be fair jamie doesn't understand when a woman's looking to fuck and not looking for love. That's true. Actually, he doesn't. He's very bad at that. That's, like, the whole thing.

That's literally this whole thing happening. Yeah, they're even, like, telling him, Jamie, I want to fuck. And he's like, I don't understand. Why don't you get married? And that's it. Settle down. What if I... Actually, that's really demeaning, right?

If you think about it. What if, like, you know about it what if like like you know your crush is like you know interesting thank you but what if i tried to set you up with this other person and thankfully it works out for these people but it's kind of insulting a little bit a little bit amory reaches across the table to caress jamie's hands, like we said, and begs him to stay and kill Beric and the hound that he slew the smiling knight. The sword of the morning slew the smiling knight, my lady.

Sir Arthur Dayne, a better knight than me. Jamie pulls his hand back and turns his attention to Lady Maria, asking once more for information on this hooded woman and her men. She supplies that once they went north of Hagsmeyer, their scent disappeared in the neck. Kenos cheerfully

quips he hopes they're swallowed by lizard lions or quicksand, and Danwell Frey adds that the frog eaters may shelter outlaws. Because, you know, the Freys are big fans of the Cranogs. Lady Maria says it's not just them, the river lords are hand and glove with them as well and amy sniffs and says the small folk too sir harwin says they hide them and feed them and when he asks where they've gone they lie they lie to their own lords gasp gasp because you guys fucking suck amy like they don't owe you shit because you don't fulfill your part of the feudal bargain i thought you were almost a good fray i forgot she's not even that good she's just sex positive fuck yeah it turns out not a sex positive doesn't make you a good person

amy's amy's just got nuance you know yeah she's a great character she is a great character she's a gray character. She is a gray character. She's definitely a fray, you know. She's not afraid. Oh, wait. Strongboar says they should have their tongues out, but Jamie's like, that's a little counterproductive, Strongboar. So everyone chill out and explain to them. If you want their help, you need to make them love you.

That was how Arthur Dayne did it when we wrote against the Kingswood Brotherhood. He paid the small folk for the food we ate, brought their grievances to King Ares, expanded the grazing lands around their villages, even won them the right to fell a certain number of trees each year and take a few of the king's deer during the autumn. The forest folk had looked to Toyne to defend them, but Sir Arthur did more for them than the Brotherhood could ever hope to do and won them to our side. After that, the rest rest was easy i'm gonna swerve from what could be a natural discussion about justice system in westeros to talk about cersei six which was a chapter before where she weds robert baratheon in her memories on her wedding day and the passage is the day she wed

robert baratheon thousands had turned up to cheer for them. All the women wore their best, and half the men had children on their shoulders. When she emerged from inside the set, hand in hand with the young king, the crowd sent up a roar so loud it could be heard in Lannisport. They like you well, my lady, Robert whispered in her ear. See, every face is smiling smiling for that one short moment she had been happy in their marriage until she chanced to glance at jamie no she remembered thinking not every face my lord i think it's such a big contrast from jamie right now who's like i

want nothing to do with cersei until i understand everything about it, until I get the truth, which he already knows the truth, let's be real. He just doesn't want to admit it to himself. And this passage of Cersei, she's remembering kind of similar thing, right? Like right here, this is the answer for them. Like to have a successful, he just gave the answer to have a successful democracy,

not democracy, obviously, but successful ruling in this country, in this nation where the small folk are, you know, people. That's all they're asking for. And Robert as well, you know, they wanted to cut out the tongues. And here's Robert Baratheon. Here's Jamie Lester, both preaching. No, show them that you can rule just and well and be happy, you know, and not a not burn everyone and you'll be good that's all you need to rule it's not a very hard thing you know sometimes it makes me wonder like it's really funny that the one thing that rulers don't give the people

is the thing they want and i mean we haven't interestingly seen jamie do this much yet right right he hasn't actually demonstrated and as far as I've seen, put some of this into practice. But he obviously knows it because I mean, it's the opposite of what he saw Aerys do. It's just difficult, of course, because other than Aerys

being the example of him being like, wow, no, that's what not to do. And then him seeing how successful Ned Stark was. but his other big example right is tywin it's hard to unlearn that we're seeing it with tyrian and cersei so maria agrees with the things that jamie is saying and it's like jamie you are wise the small folk need to love lancel for them to be rid of the outlaws she asked jamie to stay to keep the peace but his place is with the king strongportpore says he'll come back to

fight for the dairy keep, that Beric was nothing but a comely lad in a silk cloak, slight callow. But young Sir Arwood Frey says that was before he died. Death changed him. He doesn't stay dead.

And not just Beric, the hound was something to fear as well, slaying 20 good men at salt pans. Thank you, Chloe. You're welcome. I'll never stop, you know. I'll always be here for you, Eliana. Just like Arwood Frey, apparently. Arwood Frey is here for us in his two mentions of the story and appendix notes.

Yeah, I was like, who the fuck is this? Yeah, so Arwood Frey has four kids with Riala Royce. He's the only son of Hastine and Belaina Howick. This is all according to the appendix. And he kind of seems like not too bad of a Frey. Not to be like an asshole, but how he speaks here, he kind of speaks honestly. Like, yo, I rode. I saw all this stuff firsthand.

It's not true. And it's funny to me that he's denoted as so young. Because I want to say that he has to be like in his 30s or so. I'd say he's probably about Jamie's age, according to like, if you follow the appendix and the logic, which we know sometimes George slips up, he doesn't really care. There's too many phrase, yada, yada, yada. Just enough phrase that you can kill a bunch of them off next book, you know? enough phrase that you can kill a bunch of them off next book you know yeah maybe i don't know the nickname stuck but you know arwood fray could still disappoint us as we realized wait i forgot amy kind of sucks oh god go away delete delete strong boar laughs dismissively saying it must have been 20 good fat inkeeps or 20 serving men but not 20 knights arwood having rode with harryson donnell high insists the knights at salt pans hid behind their walls while everything was raised they thought it was barrack but all they found was bone and ashes

amidst sir quincy's keep the hound had put the buildings to the torch it was said people disord and rode off laughing and mutilated the woman as well if you buildings to the torch it was said people disordered and rode off laughing and mutilated the woman as well if you notice i'm saying it very happily because i know it wasn't my husband so i don't have to feel bad about it it was not him this is a reread y'all yeah we we all know this and like jamie also is kind of like this i mean he paid attention right to sandra clegane the other person that his son idolized. Like, it sounds a lot like Gregory Clegane's work, not the hound. But Arwood insists that, I mean, he was wearing the hound's helm.

Everybody saw it. Like, all of his victims are saying it, alright? Like, Arwood and company, like, found them after. Like, it's pretty straightforward. It's like a dog helmet, and Arwood calls it butchery. But Maria says that's offensive to honest butchers, and says instead that it was done by some fell beast in human skin. This is a time for beasts, Jamie reflected, for lions and wolves and angry dogs, for ravens and carrion crows. Wait, do you think he means it's a time for the carrion crows

to to feast i maybe or maybe jamie's saying you know like it's time for a book must be two books down for i don't know a time for wolves so we know that in the next chapters this is solved uh brienne's chapter coming up next makes it not sandor we hear that uh the next chapters, this is solved. Brienne's chapter coming up next makes it not Sandor. We hear that the Hound is dead. Sandor Clegane is at rest. And I love that Jaime has really been talking about Sandor a lot. Like you said, he's really been keeping tabs on him. It really seems that Jaime does kind of root for the underdog.

Wow. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know what's into me tonight. It's Jin. Jin's into me. It's like we flipped. It does make me kind of wonder, so I know a lot of people think Sandor might go to the Vale and

save Sansa, which I don't think is gonna happen and you know me, I wish it would, but I don't think it would. And people think maybe Brienne and Jamie might go there, which I also don't think is going to happen. I think they're gonna be busy in the brienne and jamie might go there which i also don't think is going to happen i think they're going to be busy in the riverlands and dealing with all that jazz i almost wonder and think sandor is going to join up with the broken brotherhood and with the brainy crew it feels like because of that whole rooting for the underdog thing for jamie

like there's so much sandor in these Jamie chapters that I'm finding and with this being before the quiet isle chapter I feel like it's just all connected I just wonder if they're all gonna meet up and that would be interesting because Sandra can be like no I saw your daughter she ran away from me she's supposed to kill me but she didn't do that well and that's the other thing too is he has that answer and on on top of that, how else are we going to see what Sandor does? What POV are we going to see Sandor through next book? Hmm. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like for the Dunk, the Dunk crew to come together, right? Yes, exactly. That's the other thing. They're all related. Yeah. It's one big family just like jamie

and cersei strong boar filling his cup once more swears his sword to hunt down sandor clagade for them stating dogs don't frighten me but jamie thinks i think that sandor should frighten you then amory thanks him for helping a lady in distress. Jamie knocks his wine over. Everyone pretends to not notice. Very, very courtesy, right? And he's like, I think it's actually pity. Dinner's done.

He's done. And then Amory, like, freaks out. She's like, wait, don't you want any of the venison? Or, there was another dish that was coming after, and it sounded really good. It was, like, something stuffed. It was capon stuffed with something and i was like yeah we gotta quit doing these episodes when we're hungry i know i know but he should he should have stayed first of all but also i in that moment i really related to amy because i was like dude i understand the feeling of like oh my god you're not gonna stay and eat the rest of the food that i made sure i know and i people i would feel really

anxious in that moment i'd be like what do you mean was it bad was the food bad did you not like it what do you want well jamie of course does not have time to discuss those little things with amory fray it's time for him to go he's ready to go get some sausage just kidding he's not gonna eat sausage he's going to meet his cousin, who is at the sept, past where the sparrows are sitting, cooking sausages above their flames. He wonders how many sausages they suckled out of dairy and thinks they'll be eating rats by winter unless there's another harvest. But it's a bit too late in autumn for another harvest.

He heads into the windowless sept, seven-sided, timbering with carved doors and a tiled roof. Three sparrows are guarding the inner ward, and they ask him where he's going. One advises him Lancelot's praying to the father for guidance. A beardless boy, Jamie thinks at first, but then realizes, no, she's a woman. He grows impatient with them, asking if they know who he is, and he receives the following. The first one, the big man with a starry eye, says, some lord. The small man with a big beard says, some cripple. And the woman says,

the kingslayer. But we're no kings, just poor fellows, and you can't go in unless his lordship says you can. Let my cousin pass in peace, friends, Lancel said softly. I have been expecting him. There's some really interesting stuff happening here with the framework, and it might be for part of that fever dream that's coming up later on in this book. We have in that fever dream a Janie and what he thinks and what we think is the audience is his mother. Who are you? He had to hear her say it. The question is, who are you? This is a her say it the question is who are you this is a dream is it she smiled sadly in in a way it also reminds me of the three kings guarded the tower of joy

guarding it with kind of their little riddles saying some lord some cripple the king slayer were no kings just poor fellows yeah and and just defending that i was thinking of it actually in contrast to the kettle black who was guarding the sept when jv returned to king's landing so this king kettle black who is right one of the king's guard cared when he learned that it was the king's lair even though he was all like you can't go in there absolutely not don't you know who i am i'm a king's guard and jay's like yeah i'm your fucking boss dude and then he realizes oh it's you and then he lets jamie in even though he's not supposed to to see again another one of his family members intercept and so between like that and this we see where people's loyalties lie right like because

there that kind of lack his loyalties were towards the Lannisters and to Jaime, right? To any nobility that's ordering him around. Here, we have poor fellows, people who in theory, right, would be people say would be more like demure, but

in Varys' riddle, they're choosing the priest and they refuse. Even the Kingslayer in Lannister decked out in Lannister clothes. And it's like, no, you can't go in. Yeah.

It's almost like Lancel's only accepted and protected because of how holy he's being. It's very interesting. And something I didn't really think about until now too, is the way that Jamie regards the girl of the three poor fellows. And he notices the woman throughout this chapter. It's a very prominent thing he notices the women that are working who might not be necessarily in normal

garb or normal dresses like he's used to with ladies yeah he's thinking about brienne a lot isn't he like he's not saying he's thinking about it but at first he was like are you a man and then realizes no you're a girl dressed like a man yeah yeah i mean of course yeah of course he's thinking about all the time that's why he said red rotted away couldn't stand his face so once the sparrows are moved aside lancel does not look good thinner than he had at king's landing he's wearing a plain tunic looking like a beggar and his head is shaved smooth his beard's grown out a little but jamie would think that he'd be insulting the peach if he called it peach fuzz, you know what I mean? Jamie asks Lancel if he's lost his mind

and asks where his father is. He's like, where is Kevin? Lancel says he's gone, and he asks Jamie to pray with him. Jamie asks if the father will give him a new hand for praying, and Lancel says no, but he'll give him courage. The smith can lend him strength, and the crone will give him wisdom. The seven gods loomed above carved altars, the dark wood gleaming in the candlelight, a faint smell of incense hung in the air. Yeah, so Lancel's actually sleeping beneath a different altar each night, getting visions allegedly from each god.

Maybe, I don't know. Jaime thinks of Baelor the Blessed allegedly allegedly having visions especially when he fasted and then he asked lancel about the last nourishment that he had and lancel says faith has nourished me and jamie's comment to him is faith is like porridge better with milk and honey i mean not wrong not wrong i'm a syrup girl but i like i like honey do you i like honey i just don't like it on Porridge. Better with milk and honey. I mean, not raw. Not raw. I'm a syrup girl, but. I like honey. Do you? I like honey, I just don't like it in my porridge.

No, I do that. For oatmeal. Anyway. Lancel tells him he dreamed he'd come, that in his dream, Jamie knew what he had done, his sins, and killed him for it. Because that's kind of Jamie's thing, you know um you're more like to kill yourself with all this fasting didn't baylor the blessed fast himself onto a beer our lives are candle flames says the seven pointed star and the errant puff of wind can snuff us out death is never far in this world and seven hells await sinners who do not repent their sins. Pray with me, Jamie. If I do, will you eat a bowl of porridge? When his cuz didn't answer, Jamie sighed. Seven hells await sinners who do not repent their sins. Jamie, repent.

Jamie tells him he should be making babies with Amory in order to keep the peace in castle but lancel doesn't want it lancel shuddered seven save me but i wanted to be you and that's the very crux of this chapter right jamie comes to dairy and he sees the life that lancel doesn't want which is the life jamie wants the life jamie was originally born into and jamie unfortunately can't have and he projects himself into it while confirming and believing the truth about Cersei. Lancel's wife is cuckholding him for a very strong boy and seems to be using her feminine wiles for protection and swords much like Cersei and Jamie is basically screaming at him Lancel your wife will cheat on you if you don't fuck her because he was trapped in a dungeon unable to fuck Cersei while she cheated on him.

We know that's not going to change much. They didn't establish the boundaries of the relationship. Oh my god. Eliana, it's different. Anyways, Lancel doesn't want to stay. It was different. Lancel wants honor. He wants glory to fulfill a sacred vow like what jamie went into when he was younger

and jamie jamie wants a home now a wife children he could never love or have the the love of the commoners the love of the small folk lancel's throwing away everything jamie wants everything that jamie could never have i mean like that that's's a very Jamie thing to do as well, right? There's so many ways that Lancel doesn't realize that he's following in Jamie's footsteps and throwing away your shot at, like, everything that could possibly make you happy. That's a Jamie move.

And beyond that, you know, earlier you were actually discussing and pointing out how Harwin is, of course, a plum in this strong situation right but it does feel to me kind of like uh the situation that happened to Ossifer Plum but kind of in the reverse like who is rumored to have a six-foot cock because somehow he managed to impregnate his wife Elena Targaryen from the grave as he died during the bedding and then Viserys Plum was eventually born. Probably actually by Aegon IV, but whatever.

Anyways, but only here, Harwin is actually the one who's taking on the role of fathering a secret bastard that's going to be passed off as a true-born, and Lancel will be playing the Ossifer Plum role, kind of, you know. And then this bastard's probably going to get passed off as, like, a true-born, you know,

the way that, like, Cersei did. It all really comes full circle. Or era yep yep yep all that all that jamie says better him than baylor the blessed and reiterates that if lancel does not fuck his wife she will fuck harwin plum and lancel's like cool good for her man you know yeah he's like good for her and he says I said some words and gave her a red cloak but only to please father marriage requires consummation King Baelor was made to wed his sister Diana but they never lived as man and wife and he put her aside as soon as he was crowned the realm would have been better served if he had closed his eyes and fucked her. I know enough history to know that. In any case, you're

not like to be taken for Baelor the Blessed. No, Lancel allowed. He was a rare spirit, pure and brave and innocent, untouched by all the evils of the world. I am a sinner with much and more to atone for. That's not

how I would describe Baelor the Blessed. Yeah, I mean, like, what happens with the Maiden Vault later, and, I mean, Baelor actually comes up quite a lot, right, in Cersei's chapter right before this one. And so we see Baelor as kind of kind of like this looming presence and all this like beyond the militarization of the faith uh and the maiden vault as well but as we discussed in our maiden vault episode i mean i think that there's potentially more at play here for baylor than just piousness because it seems as though baylor was very much using the power of the faith to secure his rule versus the claims of his sisters and their children, which could have threatened it.

And it makes a lot of sense seeing the power that the faith has on that political level in Cersei's chapters, but also how it acts here with that very individual hold that it has on Lancel. individual hold that it has on lancel it's a really intimate look at why lancel chose faith when his whole family rejected him and kind of pushed him out and tried to button him into a hole that he wanted nothing to do with and when you consider the visions whether or not he's starving himself to have them that makes it even more interesting especially that dream i mean that dream is wild we didn't really touch much on it because it's not much to say about it but he dreamed jamie was gonna kill him after he found out like jamie's been dreaming about killing anyone about this yeah but then jamie doesn't and so part of it is kind of like is it a vision or is it lancel's guilty conscious because i mean he clearly feels guilty he's having a confession moment here yeah so he admits he served the wine that kills Robert

and that he was his real downfall. But Jamie knows that isn't all and he keeps pushing. He asks what else he did to require so much atonement, noticing Lancel's wearing a holy hair shirt under his tunic. And Lancel bows his head, crying, which basically confirms it for Jamie. You killed the king, he said said then you fucked the queen i never lay with my sweet sister say it say it never spilled my seed in in her cunt suggested jamie womb lancel finished it is not treason unless you finish inside sorry i know this is like an emotional moment but i can't you can't say that without laughing

i can't say that like with a straight face it is not treason unless you finish inside. I gave her comfort after the king died. You were a captive. Your father was in the field and your brother, she was afraid of him and with good reason he made me betray her. Did he? Lancel and Sir Osmond and how many more? Was the part about Moonboy just a jibe? Did you force her? No, I loved her. I wanted to protect her. You wanted to be me, his phantom fingers itched. The day his sister had come to the White Sword Tower to beg him to renounce his vows, she had laughed after he refused her and boasted of having lied to him a thousand times.ie had taken that for a clumsy attempt

to hurt him as he'd hurt her it may have been the only true thing she's ever said to me i want to come back i know this is a serious scene once more and like what happened to lancelot's not funny but it is not treason unless you finish inside. I'm gonna tell that to everyone I meet from now on. It's not treason unless you finish inside. I mean, I get why. The logic makes sense, but also... Yeah, it's literally like, come on her tummy or you're a dummy.

Come on her back because elsewhere it's whack. You can just imagine it wasn't treason. You didn't finish inside. Okay, anyway, I'm sorry. It's like, anyway. confession moment right for lansoy like very catholic church confession but not just that he's telling all of the truths that he believes and it makes me think of how what is it in front of the gods woods in the gods wood in front of a hard tree you can't tell a lie but it's the faith of the seven here and his gods but anyway a random thought we also have this fun thing happening in

these chapters for both of the lannister twins so we discussed this a bit in our patreon episode recently on mirror and tana merriweather but it kind of seems like what circe wants and part of what she liked in jamie was having someone that was a mirror to her and reflected her but mostly what she wanted to see in the mirror you get a lot of like he's he's the mirror for her evil queen from snow white right and she becomes much more of that evil queen as she does more aries like things where she hires people who also then become that mirror for her they reflect back to her her desires what she wants to hear and only what she wants to see whereas jamie's story is also very

much about reflection and and is also full of mirrors it's not just that he's projecting onto lancel all these things lancel really did want to be jamie right and and jamie's story starts out with brienne who reflected to jamie the knighthood that he longed to embody, that he aspired to, and then fell short on. Loras, who reflects Jaime as the boy that he once was when he first joined the Kingsguard, and also caught in a forbidden love that no one knows that. It's not treason

if you don't finish inside. Then we have Lancel, who's the man that Jaime actually became, disillusioned and broken as a king slayer and a queen fucker something that lancel says and when when he says both of those lines together you suddenly really see how how similar they become and yeah it is still pretty treasonous maybe not becoming not coming inside but the part where you kind of help kill a king kind of treason

very treasonous actually actually. And interestingly, Lancel is of a very similar age that Jaime was when Jaime slew Aerys. And at some point, I do want to spend more time on Lancel and what becomes of him because he takes a very different path than Jaime, right? Once he comes across this sort of brokenness and disillusionment. And it's more similar to Aaron, Damp Hair, Greyjoy. And I think how, in my opinion, how Lancel was also sexually abused in his youth. And he lived through the trauma of the Blackwater and he, like the Damp Hair, finds comfort and meaning in religion. I think that's a great reference. I was thinking about damp hair through a lot of this, and especially when you look at, like, the hair shirt,

which I know we talked about a long time ago in, oh my god, what chapters were it? But it's not the first mention of a hair shirt. I know that. We've talked about it before in this. And it definitely reminds me of Aaron, especially with the religion. Absolutely. it definitely reminds me of Aaron, especially with the religion. Absolutely. And I mean, it's sad because this is exactly

Jaime if Lancel went on for 20 years more, you know? Like, sleeping with Cersei, being emotionally abused, physically abused, on and off, back and forth with her, both of them abusing each other. I mean, that's what happened to Jaime. He just kept doing it.

Yeah, and in a way, now that I think about it, Jaime is trying to figure out, am I a Lannister, am I not? And is in some ways trying to divorce himself, as you said, from that in many ways, and is leaning into that Kingsguard identity, which also calls for celibacy. And it seems like Lancel is kind of trying to erase himself of his Lannister-ness, right,

by leaning into joining the Faith and becoming one of the Sparrows or Poorfellows, right? Yeah. So Lancel pleads for Jaime not to think badly of Cersei, lol, since he didn't come in her or make a baby with her. And Jaime wonders what Lancel would say if he suddenly confessed his three treasons to him, Myrcella, Joffrey, and Tommen. Yeah, and so a lot of this comes back to what we were talking about earlier, where Jamie's actually thinking about fertility.

And I felt the language here and usage of three treasons, that specific phrase quite interesting because, you know, especially if this chapter were once next to Dany chapters when these were all one book. Because the line is, you know, those three treasons, will you know? And it's not betrayals. People think it's betrayals. It's treasons. It's kind of different.

One of them has to do with coming inside and the other doesn't and i don't think that what's happening here is at all prophesied for danny right here but i do think of how in a way like all three of the lannister bastards as those three treasons are kind of embody that for gold because of their hair or for blood the blood lust and vengeance that that that sex is born out of in some ways, but also the blood of incest and for love. But I don't think that kind of discussed those three treasons in length, right? And we talked about a couple of things I spoke about was, were. Aemon had his own three treasons, right? And his last treason was trying to go east to help Dany and dying. Jon had three treasons and his last treason of course he died for in a dance of dragons and

there's the idea that danny's three treasons she will die at the end of right for a fourth test because john and amen both failed their fourth test and died john got to come back and we don't know what the end game for daenerys will be obviously but if we look at season eight's end game we had a couple hypothetical theories about why jam Jaime and Cersei died the way they might have in the show versus maybe it might be a little different in the books, right? Like there may be a pretty aggressively violent death for Cersei at Jaime's hand or hands. We don't know. I don't really want it to be some disgusting display of brutality against her. I know a lot of people really root for that. I'm not kind of the person that just likes people to root for being in chokeholds or whatever.

I don't know. It makes me wonder, like, if the three treasons here in the books are running parallel, right? As the three treasons being Myrcella, Joffrey, and Tommen. But, like, you broke it down. The gold, the blood, and the love. Maybe Jaime's last test will be Cersei, and maybe he has to kill her. Or not has to, it's a choice. But maybe

that's his last treason. Yeah. His test. And I have explained before. I don't... I know it's not likely. I still think it's funny if it'll be Tyrion. Yeah, I think it'd be hysterical. I don't think it's likely. I would die laughing, though. I'm just like, you did it, Cersei.

You figured it out. But back to Lancel. Lancel is telling Jaime he was angry at Cersei after the battle, but that confessing of the High Septon helped. And, you know, you must forgive Cersei. That's what the High Septon told me. And Jaime's like, wow, so you told the High Septon you fucked your cousin. Interesting. Interesting. And you know, what's really funny is we get the next chapter where the Quiet Isle, we learn that the novices on the

Quiet Isle only get to speak once a week to tell their penances and, know beg to be heard and beg for forgiveness and repenting and yada yada and that otherwise they cannot speak so we also learned that the elder brother knows about the stark sisters because immediately he's like oh interesting you're brienne who are you looking for sansa stark everyone comes here looking for her first off uh but also because you know sandor won't shut up about the stark sisters like his one day a week where he gets to talk to the the elder brother and the the non-novices you know he's just sobbing about these stark girls all the time and i think that's really interesting that we go from this religious chapter right into the next religious chapter on that aisle of people that aren't speaking or aren't able

to speak or confess weakly, etc. Because again, this is a confession. But yeah, absolutely. Well, more than that, from this confession, Jaime kind of realizes like, oh, you told the High Septon

that you were banging Cersei. He thinks to himself he wondered if his cousin had any notion the fruit his words had borne because of course him confessing to banging cersei to the high septon is why cersei had the high septon killed because she didn't trust and thought he knew too much uh in cersei four says, no man can ask for more than to die peacefully in his sleep full of years. So this is confirmation for Jaime for more than just Cersei

banging Lancel. It's kind of like confirmation that she's evil. Like that she had the septid killed because Lancel told the High Septon about that. And Jaime kind of knew he just chose not to see all these years. Yeah.

Yeah. Lancel then declares that he's denouncing his lordship and wife and that Aemond and Harwin, you know, they can have the keep and the lordship if they like. Take it! He will be swearing his sword to the improved warrior sons, trademarked.

Jaime's like, that was literally 300 years ago. Wake up, Lancelot. And Lancelot's like, no, no, no, no. Didn't you hear? The Septon restored the poor fellows and the warriors. And Jaime's like, what? What? He doesn't remember which Targaryen had fought to suppress the orders.

He's like, I don't know if it was like Maegor or Jaehaerys. And he's like, Tyrion would have known who it was. Also, it was Jaehaerys. Read a fucking book, Jaime. Maegor tried real hard. Yeah. It was both. I think Maegor killed all of them, and then Jaehaerys actually made it law, right? Right. Well, Jaehaerys shut it all down when he came to power, like, in totality and the right way. Not just, you know, butchering people in the streets.

Killing all of them, yeah. way not just you know butchering people in the streets killing all them yeah it is striking though to me actually like that neither cersei or jamie know for sure or care because the reader is told as we said it's kind of both and we're actually told that a little in that cersei chapter right before this one for different reasons and times of how and how they do it and she like doesn't fucking care she's like oh worms okay whatever keep going but all this time so i i do think it's interesting that neither of them know that and then of course jamie thinks tyrian would have known and this is like i don't know the third time that jamie's like yeah tyrian would have fucking known this or something like that it

happens a lot in this chapter as you were pointing out Chloe, of like where he's kind of having this conversation with Tyrion in his head. And it makes me think again to something that Atwell wrote in his analysis of Jaime Six in A Storm of Swords, where Jaime at one point thinks, what would Tyrion do in this situation? And he thinks that it's quite pointed that Jaime doesn't think, what would Tywin do? Which kind of goes to show that in the first place, like, a little different, right? Because Cersei is constantly thinking, what would Tywin do in this situation? She kind of fails at doing that. But anyway, Jaime over here is, like, idealizing still, like, his younger brother's cunning and wit from before, you know, Tyrion killed their father, right? right um whereas like tyrian has kind of become

much more cynical and he is constantly thinking he was thinking about it before like what would my dad do and he's thinking that even more so now that he's an essos and after all the terrible things that have happened to him right whereas jamie's still like what would tyrian do and it it reminds me of the same way that Jaime would, in his earlier chapters, sort of dissociate and take comfort and think about Cersei and think about that as a way to kind of escape. He's not escaping here, though, but it's like he's replaced the Lannister sibling he thinks about constantly with Tyrion.

Now, and again, it's not current Tyrion, because we all know what that guy's like right now. Who is kind of pining for his brother brother dreaming about him and feeling guilty about him too they're you know like fievel and his sister singing somewhere out there to each other but the smart tyrian from before would know what to do and i think there's something kind of interesting here with that older brother idolizing his younger brother yeah and i guess in a way we see it when we look at characters like aria and sanza who you know the world declares that they hate each other obviously because that's not how siblings act i'm just kidding

and we don't know i know i would never literally have no experience i will never actually that's not true all of my friends had way too many siblings i mean one is too many but like i'm talking like four five you know so i understood siblings eliana i know i say i don't get it but oh man so glad i don't have them uh but it makes me think as well like now that he's really cut those ties to cersei now that he's really severing it and he's thinking of this idealized tyrian younger tyrian jamie at this moment is the only Lannister in this exact moment, chronologically speaking, hell, even to the end of the books

right now of what we have, he's the only one progressing. And you cannot quote me on that legally, because I don't care about Jaime Lannister. But... We don't have to quote it. We're gonna just put it in this episode, Chloe. You don't have to do that either.

For the public. That's going to the public. So Lancel offers to show Jamie the letter that he has written from King Tommen's consent about the warriors being risen. And Jamie's like, I don't need that. I want to know why you threw away your freedom for a vow. And Lancel's like, I don't know. Why did you, dude?

Damn. Damn. Lancel is like, I haven't eaten in 40 days, 40 nights, and yet I still got the clap back, Jamie. He really does. And Jamie's also like, wow. Then we end up with this quote where Jamie's thinking, For honor, Jamie might have said, for glory. That would have been a lie, though. Honor and glory had played their parts, but most of it had been for Cersei.

A laugh escaped his lips. Is it the high septon you're running to, or my sweet sister? Pray on that one, cause. Pray hard. Will you pray with me, Jamie? Damn. Aw, Lancel. First of all, I want to be like, for honor, for glory. Those are both horses, Jamie.

Valid reasons. Also, I don't know what's going on here with Lancel constantly asking Jamie to pray other than like he's really into gods slash gods now. me to pray other than like he's really into god slash gods now but i'm gonna i'm gonna drop some spoilers of the forsaken so everyone skip forward 30 seconds if you don't want to hear it there are these moments where euron grayjoy tries to tempt erin into worshiping him that i've written an essay uh that is reminiscent of of Jesus in the desert fasting and the devil asking Jesus to bow to him and Jesus refusing. But Lancel implores Jamie about three times, I think, to pray with him. And each time Jamie refuses. I don't know what's going on here, but it's something that seems interesting with those several asks.

Yeah, that's three times feels really significant. Yeah. It kind of does remind me of a oh god what is it there's a bible verse the 70 times 7 bible verse you know yeah the forgive there's a lot of that going on with lancel right now lots of uh not seven but 70 times seven you know lancel's got forgiveness to go around for everyone right now. Jaime observes the sept. The mother's mercy. The father's judgment. The warrior with the sword. The stranger in the

shadows. He thinks, I thought I was the warrior and Cersei was the maid, but all the time she was the stranger, hiding her true face from my gaze. And this is a very significant line, I feel, and it comes up every now and then and i think it's something we'll probably dig into more in circe's chapters yeah jamie tells

lancel to pray for him if he likes but he's forgotten the words leaving the sept he thanks the sparrows facetiously saying he feels so much holier and goes to dance with sir illin pain in the moonlight in the godswood of Derry. Bare black branch trees with dead leaves at their feet scratch at the sky, and Jaime points at Raymond Derry's bedchamber, conversing with Illyn, a very one-sided conversation.

He tells him the night Arya Stark's wolf ran off, his sister wanted the girl to lose a hand, hmm, for striking someone of the royal blood that's interesting robert told her she was cruel and mad and they fought and drank and fought later when robert was passed out snoring on the mirish carpet he offered to move robert into the bed but she asked jamie to take her to the bed instead and he stepped over robert and fucked her on the bed vowing to kill robert if woke up because, you know,

wouldn't be the first king. That would be treason. Yep. As I was fucking her, Cersei cried, I want. I thought that she meant me, but it was the Stark girl that she wanted, maimed or dead. The things I do

for love. It was only by chance that Stark's own men found the girl before me. If I had come on her first. The pockmarks on Sir Illyn's face were black holes in the torchlight as dark as Jaime's soul. He made that clacking sound. He is laughing at me, realized Jaime last year. For all I know, you fucked fucked my sister too you pock-faced bastard he sped up well shut your bloody mouth and kill me if you can take it out good work it out boys work it out i've always really loved there's this parallel with cersei crying out i want i want uh back to catelyn stark in a clash of kingsatelyn VII, the chapter before she actually meets slash they capture Jaime.

And she thinks and says, I want Bran and Rickon back. I want, Catelyn hung her head. I want, she said once more, and then her words were gone. I think this is such a very, I think putting these two quotes together and looking at Cersei and Catelyn against each other as separate characters, obviously, but also against each other as mothers and as women seeking agency in the story. It's once more really interesting to see how the Starks are presented with grief and how they interact with grief and how Cersei

interacts with things like grief or anger or vengeance or want and you even look back to things that Cersei said like when she was speaking to Sansa and said love is a sweet poison but it kills you all the same and of course Catelyn on the other side thinks laughter is poison to fear with Jaime earlier speaking about how cutting the small folks' tongues won't help or make them love you, with Sansa thinking, when I'm queen, I'll make them love me. Those kind of thoughts are just really interesting

juxtaposed against each other and seeing just who Cersei is and Cersei's ideology and what her and Jaime and Tyrion were raised on compared to what Sansa and Catelyn were raised on is made so apparent in this. Yeah, I think that's a great parallel. And, you know, it makes me think of another character who was also experiencing grief and pain and similar language, right? Where Arianne Martell, who, if you'll all remember a while ago, we had that Walda

on to talk about Airian, and then a lot of those were discussing her parallels with Cersei, but Eirian, when she thinks of the death of Arya's Okar, thinks, why did you do it? Why throw your life away? I never told you to. I never wanted that. I only wanted... I wanted... I wanted... Yep, that ringing. And it just ends. I wanted. Yup. That ringing. And it just ends.

It's like there's something tied, right? When it comes to these women and what society denies them and the grief that they have and the things that they want. But it can't be voiced because there's so many things, right? To want. Yeah. In those moments. When it comes to power and who knows, right? So coming back also to the quote, there was something else that was interesting there, right?

In terms of Cersei wanting Jaime to maybe maim or kill Arya and, you know, I kind of do wonder what Jaime would have done in light of who he is now, right? And telling people, wait, like you can't, his Kingsguard, and telling them

you can't just go around being hitmen because Cersei or Joffrey tell you to kill people. And of course, as you pointed out before, how he refused to bring Tyrion's head to Cersei. I think that's interesting. And something else to call call out especially as I reread some of Cersei's chapters alongside Jaime's to contextualize his is we've talked about that really fraught portrayal of Cersei and Jaime's sexual relationship and it's interesting that a lot of those moments that we see between Jaime and Cersei it seems like she has an ask for him every single time and also in the ones that Jamie recalls, such as this moment, versus how Circe thinks of her sexual relationship with Jamie, which for the most part is, some of it is fraught in terms of the taking and we discussed

that in our patron episode and near a little little but and then some of the quotes prior to jamie's chapters but a lot of it is very she's she has quite a positive view of it and thinks of like those moments of them sneaking and taking these stolen pleasures right you know putting it in those terms of what jamie would have done when he came across aria it actually reminds me which i think we've discussed this revolving around these kind of plots before, of Snow White and the Huntsman with a lot of what we discussed in our mirror episode,

our mirror, mirror on the wall episode, and with Cersei and that whole mirror idea. It does remind me of Snow White and the Huntsman. Like if Jaime came across Arya in the woods and he was supposed to kill her, what do you think he'd do? A lot of the thoughts come back to Sandor. Like earlier there was that reference when Maria said something around something about how the butchers, you know, that would be being mean to the butchers to talk like that about what Sandor Clegane did or what the Hound did.

And it's funny of course because you know the butcher's boy Micah really interesting reference there just like sprinkled in but with Sandor it was the same thing right like he was sent as a huntsman after Micah to cut him down and the Sandor we know now is so much different I mean he's probably jacked right like his he's more jacked than usual his muscles have to be 10 times they are his arm day is like every day but uh I think Jamie probably would have cut her down if he came across her I do uh he was willing to throw Bran out the window you know for love if Cersei said do it then he'd do it even if it was just like a little forethought so I don't know I

think Jamie would probably have killed Arya if he had come across her in the woods I really do he'd do it even if it was just like a little forethought so i don't know i think jamie would probably have killed aria if he had come across her in the woods i really do i think bringing it back to what happened to brand is a good good argument for that absolutely and he was a different person he was and it seems like he wouldn't do it now based on how unhappy cersei is with his performance as a king's guard slash slash now her personal hitman, which is why he's out here in the Riverlands, right? And so I think you're right. And I think that that's part of what we're seeing here that, again, that change as he...

And you can see that change because of the way this is structured, because he's reflecting on things in the past. He's making up for two whole books he wasn't in yeah those things that happened in those books that he wasn't in but as you said we have concrete evidence that he would do something like this and the way that he's appalled and terrified of that now is part of how people interpret that change in jamie's character yeah absolutely well i guess we'll see you guys next week when I don't care about Jamie Lannister. Chloe said that

she saw Jamie changing earlier this episode. I did not say that. I don't think you have proof of that. I do. It's earlier in this episode. Everyone will have heard it by the time we get here. Well, that's a wrap on Jamie 4 in A Feast for Crows.

Thanks so much for listening to me not care about Jamie Lannister in A Feast for Crows thanks so much for listening to me not care about Jamie Lannister in A Song of Ice and Fire she was the stranger to me and never saw her true face we'll be back next week with Jamie 5 but first make sure you're following us over on social media

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