Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 98 - AFFC The Captain of Guards

Episode Date: August 7, 2020

The blood oranges are dropping and the snakes long to taste vengeance. Areo Hotah serves, obeys, and protects Doran Martell as he deals with the aftermath of Oberyn Martell's death but starts to suspect his "simple vows" may prove more complex than he was told years and years ago.  Be sure to check out:  - ASOIAF Quaranstream with JoeMagician & Alicia Kingston  - Tana Ford site: https://www.tanaford.com/ - Tana Ford twitter: https://twitter.com/tanaford - "My Family's Slave" by Alex Tizon - Alleras/Sarella, The Sphinx traversing boundaries of sex and gender Intro by Anton Langhage --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com            

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 97. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Holy shit, episode 97! 97 episodes of us talking about A Song of Ice and Fire. But our first episode covering the Arya Hota chapters. Yes, this is the Captain of Guards. I want to call it the Captain of the Guards.

I hate it. I it i do this is my biggest meta like i wrote captain of the guards on this doc and i just crossed it out with like the the cross through a bajillion times and i hate it i just i get it i guess i don't get it i think everyone kind of slips and calls it the Captain of the Guards. Well, it's Captain of Guards, so I hope that you all get it right, because I am in a Song of Ice and Fire purist. Okay? Get it right, Eliana.

We've got some interesting news, though. Some exciting things that we want to say to some people. Speaking of guards... Yes! Oh my gosh, I want to say to some people speaking of guards yes oh my gosh i want to give we want to give the biggest congratulations at the top to one of our girls gone canon alumni you may actually know them from westeros wheneverly tana ford who is a hugo award winner and an eisner award winner for her wonderful work on LaGuardia. She was on Radio Westeros for Brienne this weekend.

She had a really amazing fashion hour, actually. Yeah, that's right. I listened to you, Tana. I heard you. And yeah, big congrats. That's so big. I will admit, and I don't want to make you jealous because I know that there's something that she's working on for you, Eliana, but Tana sent me something special in the mail. Did you know this?

Yes, I did. You already told me, but I like that you're saying it again. beautiful Cersei artwork and it is gorgeous I will have it hanging hopefully soon enough with some frames but it's got some green wildfire going on in the etches it's just yeah it is a it's a hot no pun intended piece so talented artist I have a Hugo award winning Eisner award winning piece of art in my home is what I'm trying to tell you. Okay, this didn't win the award, but she did. So it's close enough. No, super excited. And like, her just joy is just amazing. And, you know, I think a lot of you know what the Hugo Awards are. I mean, we're all here for this series. But like the Eisner Award is like, it is one of like the awards for comic books. Like this is such a huge deal, and I'm just so happy for her. Like, she's just such an awesome artist and

awesome person in general. One of, like, probably the nicest, most cheerful people. Funniest people, too. Yeah. Heck, I mean, this is, uh, I don't know, this is, the Eisner Awards have been going since 88, I want to say. Really? Uh, so,

yeah. Yeah, both. I think those in the Harvey Awards were first created in 1988. I want to say it was after the Kirby Awards stopped or something like that, but it is definitely a big deal. So we'll leave some links on where you can find Tana Ford's work below, and maybe I'll post some pictures on our social medias

of my beautiful Circe art or something if she says it's okay. We'll find out. Yeah, and she's not done an Aswath episode with us, but she has done a His Dark Materials episode with us because she also is a fan of that series and also made a fantastic artwork back in the day. Early, early Tana Ford artworks that she got signed by Philip Pullman. Yes. In one of the scenes. And there's something else I don't think we can talk about quite yet. It's hush hush, but

something cool is Dark Materials-y coming from her in the future. So can't wait. Love Tana. Please check Tana out. So congratulations. Congratulations Tana. Congratulations also to you, Chloe. We got an email of note from...

So Milo says that they appreciated the Jon Snow voice making her a prize. I think the best part last week of that was A, no one was expecting it. I wasn't expecting it. That's what I was saying. B is like, as much as all of you at home were not expecting me to bust into Jon Snow, Eliana's pure joy, your face turned from like shock to like, oh, best day ever. Like, it was like I told you we were going to Disney World for the first time. You know what I mean? Like, you were just like, in the morning? Like, right now?

And crazier than that, I didn't know that i was gonna how you know like yeah earlier i tried to do it like on the spot today about six hours ago just because i was thinking about it and i couldn't so i think really you all are the magic it makes my john snow voice run friendship is magic you, maybe the true song of Ice and Fire are the friends. Another email we got from one of our friends that we made along the way because friendship is magic, according to My Little Pony. We got an email from

our friend Lo, a bit back, who said in the upcoming HOTA chapter, gender and sexuality are quite prominent, as is disability. There is discussion about what kind of man Doran is for not avenging his brother. It's brought up in the Ares chapter as well. Definitely go check out Lo's essay on Sorella. We won't linger too much on Sorella in this chapter. We have a few call outs, but this essay is great about Sorella, Alaris, the Sphinx, these boundaries. Yes, Traversing Boundaries by Lo, the Lynx. It's wonderful. They did a great job on this essay. So we'll link it below. It is on their Tumblr. And yeah, Lo sent this really

great in-depth email talking about a lot of things in Dorne, but definitely check out this essay, which I think is one of their latest ones on Alaris. So yes, I do know for a fact they are working on a colonialism in His Dark Materials essay right now. That's going to be awesome, though. So if you're into His Dark Materials, keep an eye out for some of those themes they are going to be exploring. And speaking of His Dark Materials, this month's Patreon episode is going to be a his dark materials but technically not technically the book of dust episode but within a material world because we are material girls and we're doing chapters we should have fucking called god damn it has someone done that has someone done that anyways historic material girl is gone can't okay that's really

smart actually my one of my i used to have a cosplay page on facebook you know like all the real um anime girls do these days and it was materia girl named after final fantasy materia so very i like where your head's at i do yeah i'm really excited to get back to la belle sauvage it's weird to be doing it on an every other month thing right now. But as we go forward, we're about to finish The Subtle Knife, the second book in the main trilogy. So we'll probably full blast La Belle Sauvage for a little bit until we're too caught up with the TV show.

Yeah, and just to be clear, we are going to be covering chapters four through six of La Belle Sauvage. We covered already chapters one through six of La Belle Sauvage. We covered already chapters one through three on our Patreon right now. So be sure to check that out. Yeah, those will end up public eventually. So keep an eye out for when we switch them to public this autumn. And that's not the only thing that is coming right now for patrons as we jump into August. We are working on rolling out something new, something exciting. If you tuned into last month's A Song of Ice and Fire Patreon episode on life under the regency of Aegon III's

regents, we talked about something fun for our patrons. It's going to be starting for chestnut patrons first. We'll be beta testing very soon. We'll be sending out a message to those patrons, First, we'll be beta testing. Very soon, we'll be sending out a message to those patrons. But we will be running a Discord channel. What is Discord? Well, we are still learning. It is like a video game, Slack, AOL Instant Messenger chat. No, it's like a Yahoo Instant Messenger group, but not.

Better. Much better. 20 years later, doing much better. Basically, there's channels, you can chat we're gonna do some streaming Eliana and I have been very into video games during this crazy pandemic going

on in the 2020s, we have been into video games, playing Animal Crossing I'm playing The Sims, Eliana is a boss at Dark Souls, just kidding, she's really bad, but I love watching her be bad, you know what I mean? Like it's really bad, but I love watching her be bad. You know what I mean? Like, it's really character building.

Can we just watch her be bad for like an hour? It's a zen experience watching me die to the same bosses literally for an hour. Every time. Every time. Just sitting there just like,

hmm, well, what if you did it differently next time, Eliana? Eliana, no. No. Dies. Yeah, we're going gonna do some streaming, hang out with y'all. Definitely have some plans for some mini episodes. We'll have capabilities to do kind of voice chat and video chat with everybody. And a bunch of you know that we did

have an issue with YouTube where our YouTube channel got suspended for really no good reason. We have no clue what the reason is. Hashtag free girls gone canon. But because we don't work in a tryout discord. So chestnut patrons, keep an eye out for more details coming to you on Patreon. And we'll move from there. Yeah, maybe you can do some Final Fantasy streaming. I honestly really need to really need to like i know that sounds silly but i really really need to get onto that yeah i think the most i played was bravely default on the 3ds which is technically not final fantasy and some of final fantasy 10 and i got fucking stuck on fucking zombie Seymour and damn. Seymour's such a Jorah Mormont.

Anyways. So. Ariel Hota. Not a Jorah Mormont. Not a Jorah Mormont. I. The Captain of Guards is a very good chapter. It is. May I just add, A Feast for Crows is a very good

book. Before we go into the lightning round, I just want to remind you all that this is the third chapter of A Feast for Crows, and yes, George is trying to jam-pack all these plots halfway through the story, but like, I'm here for it. I love,

I think the Doran stuff is beautiful. I know you were going to talk in the beginning of the chapter about some of just the sensory stuff going on. And it's seriously gorgeous and fragrant. And it's like you can close your eyes and imagine you're there. It's very fantasy. Is it problematic in areas? Yes. If you've listened to our REN chapters, you'll already know about that. Some of our Quentin chapters might have the tinges of it. And we talked a lot last week critiquing some of George's kind of, you know, George-isms. I don't know. So some I could take, some I could lose, right, when it comes to Dorne. But I think overall, Dorne's a really good addition in exploring Erio Hota's lens seeing what he sees I don't think we have enough in this book I don't know we'll talk of course of some of our predictions for the Winds of Winter later later and next week too

I don't know exactly what it holds but I hope we get a little more Erio before he you know is gone I really do hope we get more of his opinions on things and you know i think there's to an extent some of the way that this is written comes from of course the history of how the dorn chapters eventually came into being right because originally george was gonna and i think this is

part of how we got ario and aries's chapters being our introduction to doran yeah i assume that arianne and quentin were like always going to be characters eventually right but well actually no quentin was not sure quentin i think came later but i assume later yeah area so quentin wasn't sure but i assume arianne was going to be like george was going to do this like long 20 or 30 page uh sort of prologue talking about the politics of things that had happened throughout the rest of the kingdoms in the aftermath of what happened in a storm of swords and launched into his five-year gap then he was like fuck fuck my life it doesn't work and so we have these chapters but as you said a lot of them are really

good they lead us into a lot of the political machinations really well and also really help set the scene in a place that we're entering for the first time yes and as we dive into that there isn't a ton that we're going to go into before a feast for crows about erio hoda we are doing a series for our Patreon episodes. All of our patrons that are in the stranger tier and above may have listened to a few of those episodes already, but Norvos will be one, of course, that we cover, which is where Eryohotah is from. So first, before we get into a Captain of Guards and Eryohotah overview, we'll talk lightning round with the prologue. Paint the pig boy dreams of marrying Rosie,

but the gods are not good. The Prophet. Aaron Greyjoy heralds the coming of a king's boot, the first in too long a time. That brings us to Eriohotah. Trained by bearded priests in the free city of Norvos, Eriohotah has protected Lady Malario and her family since he was young.

He took his vows at age 16, much like a boy who we've just talked about before. Serve, obey, and protect were the vows that he swore. Some 20 years after his vows, he grew to love Dorne in its strange ways and even stayed on as captain of Dorne Martell's guard even when Malario left to go back to Norvos. Yes, and now in Captain of Guards, Ario tends to his prince who is filled with regret as well as gout. He plays guard as the Sand Snakes each ask him to go to war

for their father Oberyn's death and by chapter's end doran's long game has changed he asks ario to lock up the sand snakes before we launch into all this you know i do want to say as this is to an extent our overview on ario hota and his background that i think there's a lot of things about norvos that really make you think when it comes to the way that it's set up as well as the sparrows the poor, and the faith militant that are going to come, again, to the forefront in this book, concerning Norvos' theocracy.

Yeah, if you lay A Dance with Dragons next to A Feast for Crows, which is, of course, as we know, how it was originally supposed to be, you see that bigger picture in general, too. You look at Melisandre, right? That's a great person to kind of juxtapose from this religious and background of slavery i know you're going to talk a lot more about this kind of religious slavery that ario entered later and i am ready to hear you then but

first let's jump into captain of guards the blood oranges are well past ripe the prince observed in a weary voice when the captain rolled him onto the terrace after that he did not speak again for hours it's true ariel hota could smell blood oranges from his stance above the prince doran of course is in his wheelchair beneath the trees and the soft plopping noise of rotten blood oranges punctuates their conversation, but is eventually interrupted by the stamp of boots, O'Baro's footing. Yeah, and as you were saying up top, the opening of this chapter is incredibly sensual. Not in a sexual way, but literally it's appealing to all of those different senses. You get an idea of all the colors colors all the sights that are going on i think a little bit later they're like yeah two of the kids were face down they're like sunbathing

and a bunch of the other ones are running around i'm like hilarious hilarious just lying around imagine outside anyways um and again what's outside? Right. The smells, Ario talks a lot about the different scents that are going on, including the blood oranges, but a couple of the other ones. And then a lot of the sounds, sound plays a really big part of this introduction. And I think that's kind of significant,

right? It helps give us an introduction into the sand snakes, but also Ario speaks very little as to an extent as part of his station, but it makes sense that he would pay attention then to a lot of these sensations or that they would be a big part of his story. Especially as you know, later on

we're going to find that the chapter is called The Watcher for his next chapter that we do of his. And it also speaks to not just all of that and his station in life but ario's actual skill and observation because he knows who is who by their footsteps something that makes sense like you know he knows who's the maester who's abara but i think it's kind of a nice parallel when you think about another ari character i know that aria is like

wow ari's and my name kind of sound alike i I'm like, oh, Aria and Aria, their names kind of sound alike. And she also comes to rely on a lot of those different senses, especially, you know, with the sort of training that the Faceless Men give her and her going blind at the end of this book. And the big fandom joke is Erioh Hota is the camera that rides.

And this goes back to like 2012, I think he was being called that. Even back to that, I think the earliest trace I've seen on the internet is like 2012, 2013. Not kidding. Long time ago, back in the day, back when we were all babbies here. It's interesting because that skill of observation you bring up with Arya, I totally noticed a few Arya parallels in this. here it's it's interesting because that skill of observation you bring up with aria i totally noticed a few aria parallels in this and you never thought little aria stark would be that big of a parallel but i don't know i guess death cult and free cities uh those are those are broad strokes

right they're kind of similar depending on the person i think the the idea of like being like you know the mantra she repeats to herself constantly. Oh, yeah. That is what Erio has to embody, right? He has to be skilled enough to be able to catch these things. And as we're about to see with him with Obara and kind of his emotions with her, he's used to that. She is very brusque, very angry, very heated from this walk that she is walking. It's easily heard he knows our urgent

steps she walks too fast we get this line she's chasing after something she can never catch the prince had told his daughter once in the captain's hearing uh her footsteps are very different from the maester maester caliot's softer steps that trail behind so i think something about hearing those steps is very important because we don't get a lot of other camera roles like Sansa, a great POV. I know I've talked about it before, but nobody suspects the butterfly and poor Quintin at Ice and Fire Con 2017 did this panel about cameras in the story and how Eryohota and Sansa and many of these characters are more cameras for part of their kind of arc and I find that very interesting I think that's interesting yeah and

you know of course cameras do have I think that they do have a perspective that is chosen right it is still an opinion and how you portray things And one of those that this chapter really focuses on, in the lens, zooms in on, is those oranges. Yes, and look, we talked a little bit about the oranges, oh god, during Ariane's plot. I think we actually literally

said the phrase, something along the lines of we don't have to go into this symbolism because everyone's gone into it. Too late, bitches. We're going into this symbolism because everyone's gone into it too late bitches we're going into the symbolism it's 2020 now I'm a different podcaster than I was a year ago unfortunately

it's our podcast and we can do whatever the fuck we want girls gone there are other podcasts y'all something I thought I had something going yeah you can't say girls got wild in this eliana i know i was gonna say like off road but i'm like no this is still on road for us and i was like no i don't know i i had no good jokes sorry so let's talk orange fruit thank you eliana for that wonderful introduction to oranges. Orange fruit is quite obviously a metaphor.

If you haven't caught this in the books, if this is your first read, we're a reread podcast, so this doesn't point at you. This isn't about you. But if you've read it a few times and you're sitting here going, mind blown, oranges are a metaphor. Wow.

This is going to be a big day for you. So I want you to buckle up, get a drink of water, maybe a shot of vodka. That's the Chloe diet. And we'll get through it together. I'll hold your hand through some orange symbolism. So oranges are often used as a metaphor, whether biblically, whether through some mythology, which we're going to talk about as something beautiful. But if it's rotten, that's something corrupt, damaged, or destroyed, right? So that's a rotting orange fruit. It's often associated with the sun,

right? Because it's a big old orange flaming fruit, which makes a lot of sense when being juxtaposed against House Martell. And generally, if you see a rotting orange, it means that your plans are going to fall apart, and you're going to lose your goal in life, and it's going to symbolize failure. Sadness, despair, failure. You know what I'm saying? You picking up what I'm laying down?

Rotten fruit? Yeah, that's what it means. A lot of that, of course, is biblical. It comes from the kind of Garden of Eden vibes. If you listen to our His Dark Materials episode, we've probably bored you on any of those, whether it's from the first book through whatever with biblical stuff. I don't usually bring as much biblical stuff into Aeswath, but my catechism years, they call for it. Matthew 7, 18.

We even have the line in the Bible. Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. It's pretty intense. It's an intense philosophy on trees.

It's not looking great for the water gardens. You know what I'm saying? Like for Dorne, for Bloodorne. I mean, look at Baroque times, right? Orange and lemon trees, looking at you, Lemongate, represent high class prominent social status. So nobility and royalty were proud of exotic orangeries. The sun king himself, Louis IV, he was fond of orange trees. He had his own orangerie in Versailles. We look at Hera's orchard in Greek mythology. That was

the orchard where a single grove would produce golden apples. The deities brought nuptial presents for Zeus and Hera. Gaia brought her branches of golden apples. Hera deities brought nuptial presents for Zeus and Hera. Gaia brought her branches of golden apples. Hera begs her to plant them, and she did, creating her orchard. The Hesperides were supposed to be tending to the grove, but sometimes they like to sneak an apple on the side, right? And since Hera didn't trust them, she ended up placing, this is totally normal, right? An immortal 100 headed dragon as a safeguard. Normal. This is the same garden where the apple of discord came from that Ares took to basically start the Trojan war. And later, later, later on, many realized the golden apples might

actually have been oranges because before middle agesia's they didn't have oranges in europe and in the mediterranean it wasn't something they had a name for so to this day because of that assumption the botanical name for citrus in greek is hesperidoid and the word for oranges is portocali after portugal in iberia where the garden was said to be. That's very interesting. Yeah, the Apple of Discord. Did Ares stream on there at all? Ares was... Ario Hota was streaming

with Ares. Ares Okart on Discord. They were playing The Sims live. He was streaming about the Bladoran Martell. Wow wow i went a lot i went really far there i read really funny chloe's covering herself with her yellow kitty blanket she's like i can't ario halts at the triple arch brandishing his long axe to block the way. It's six feet long, mountain ash, and Obara cannot go around it.

And Ario declares the prince does not wish to be disturbed. His voice is described as a base grumble thick with the accents of Norvos, and I like that. We don't know anything, really, as far as the accents

about Norvos. I'm gonna guess we'll talk way more about this in the Free Cities and Norvos episode, I'm sure. But I'd imagine it's a bastardized Valyrian dialect, which is kind of what most of the Free Cities is. But it feels more rough. And I think there's definitely something to be said of where they are near the road that would have led to Valyria and also where they are in location to like Ib and Ib and his trading and stuff. And I expect that there has to be, George hasn't like specifically written here is all the slave trade that

went back and forth and this did this, that yet. He might still be of time. Yeah. That's why it's we're nine years into where we are. We got fire and blood. No one gets to complain. I'm just kidding. Anyway, we meet Obara, Oberyn's eldest

daughter, who is close to 30 with close-set eyes, apparently rat brown hair, apparently Arya Hota has strong opinions on Obara's hair. And the worn leather of her riding clothes is the softest thing about her. She has a coiled whip and a shield of steel and copper. And this time Obara has left her spear outside.

Obara is quick and strong and Arya thinks that she's no match for him. But also Obara doesn't know that. And he's like, I really don't want to see her blood on the marble we're gonna talk about this as we go along but this is one of the moments in this chapter that i feel like is some foreshadowing right uh we have a good amount of ariohota constantly thinking oh i would i'd be able to take down the sand snakes and i wouldn't want to have to kill them if they got near me but we also have a Hota being like, that's my little princess and her cousins. So I feel like duty might get in the way of some stuff later, but we'll come back to that.

I do like the description of Obara here. There's a line, her face had been stoned before he spoke. Then it hardened. Obara, sand means business, bitches. There's a really good use in this phrase, right? Of stone and hardened. Because in this chapter, it's like the ghost of Sand Snake, past, present, and future visits Doran, right? Like he starts off and he's got Obara.

And Obara's just like mean. And she goes from being mean to meaner. But she wants vengeance. She is the most bloodthirsty in her approach for vengeance, and right here we even get it. Her face was stone, then it hardened. Isn't there something in A Feast for Crows with stone that has to do with vengeance? Hmm, yeah, there's that. It's also in Storm. It's quite a bit. quite a bit quite a bit wait wait lady stoneheart i don't know her i don't know her

but yeah i think that's definitely a good catch and a great connection with that and also you know maybe even with uh i think there's an elaine stone somewhere too and i it's also i mean the line that you called out i think is also just such another great So, you know, maybe even with a, I think there's an Elaine Stone somewhere too. And it's also, I mean, the line that you called out, I think, is also just such another great example of that imagery that we were talking about that characterizes the rest of this, like this entire chapter. A lot of people think that Dorne comes out, I don't know, too animated and cartoony. I mean, the show, it came out completely cartoon. and i think there is a lot of cartoon in these chapters there's a lot of like characters i think yeah it's in the characters and i wouldn't even say it's cartoon so much as it is animated and i think there's definitely a factor of like george trying to deliver the most exposition and the most world building and the

most character building in the smallest amount of time, right? Like he's putting a lot in here. And they're great chapters. And I do wish we had just more of them. But I don't. Like I want the books to happen. But they're so good. And I feel like there's so much more here. And I know. I mean, I know George has so much more of these within him. But yeah, I agree. I think we're going to get a lot more. I mean, we have to, you know, in theory, when we get the book. But right now, Obara is ignoring Mr. Calliote in his ear and continues pressing Hota, asking,

well, you know, does the prince know that Oberyn is dead? Nario answers, answers yes there's been a bird are you actually had to be the one to deliver the letter himself sensing what was in the letter because maestro calio was like i think i know it's in this and he's like ario you do it you do it also can you take the letter back shot thanks ario yeah i think i know because i read it all afternoon he'd sat with the parchment in his lap, watching the children at their play. He watched until the sun went down

and the evening air grew cool enough to drive them inside. Then he watched the starlight on the water. It was moonrise before he sent Hotah to fetch a candle, so he might read his letter beneath the orange trees in the dark of night you know we talked a bit about starks above and this is very sad right he's he's this is southern starks he's sitting there thinking of his dead family thinking of all they've suffered under the moonlight under these oranges that are slowly but surely turning to rot and plopping down beside him because it's too late

and everything's gonna turn to ash yeah it's sad like a lot of doran is really sad and you know you were talking about this even before we started recording, and there's a lot of feels here. I feel that, as you were saying about them being Southern Starks in a way, Doran's pondering in silence, it does remind me a lot about Ned Stark and the regrets that he has. We see how trauma really informs him and we're looking at doran right now having lost yet another person in his family and getting that news and we we've

discussed how ned is just so traumatized by the loss of his family and also ptsd maybe from what he experienced during the rebellion but also like at the same time when it comes to ned's own circumstances especially as the second son like what could ned really have done to stop what happened to rickard and brandon right and what more could he have done to save liana and i think that there's a big factor of all this misfortune that befalls ned's family that is just completely out of his hands it it was just very unfortunate like ned couldn't have done anything to save his father or brandon right like no one thought that was going to happen whereas for doran i think that a lot of the time that he spends

pondering he must he must sort of wonder what if he didn't seek to punish Ares, right. For his mistreatment of Elia. If he's like, man, if I hadn't been so petty, right. And I don't think what he did was petty, but like,

maybe he thinks like, what if I hadn't been so petty and I had sent my troops, would my sister be alive? Would like my nephew and my niece be alive? The children, just like these children that he's watching right now. And maybe he's also like, what if I just like sucked it up and tried to make the journey

and gone instead of Oberyn, even though he's in a lot of pain? Or if like, would his brother be alive? What if he had sent someone else? Right? And you get a lot of these contrasts with how this trauma affects each of their relationships with their children as well. Like, you see that Ned's really reluctant to send his children away to be wards. He wants to keep them close. He's like, no!

Why would we send them away to be wards somewhere? Like, they're too young. And we gotta keep them close, right? Whereas Doran thinks that there's more to be done for his kids. He thinks that what's best for them is to set them up with plans and sends them away to get them into those positions and ends up losing his marriage, his wife, over these decisions. That's another person that he's kind of lost. And so these are two men who are very differently affected by the trauma and loss in their lives but still have it that's a really good call because they did the exact

opposite thing because of this trauma and i mean doran had lewin in the capital right lewin martell was in the capital and he thought that would be enough uh and i mean to a certain extent you know if it's not enough what can you do besides march your troops there? And how fast can you really get them there from Dorne? Right? That's the other thing is, like, by the time they get there, will he be too late or will he be on time? And, of course, as we know, we're probably looking at a very similar situation of those Dornish armies that are waiting in the Prince's Pass and Boneway, marching to King's Landing, marching north and, well, marching north, west than north, but we're looking at them kind of, you know, the opposite thing happening,

them actually getting there in time, that decision being made, even though it might be by Arianne making that decision uh and them getting there on time for once and seeing the difference even if it's a very fleeting moment of victory i think that they will have a victory for a little bit yeah absolutely and it it's just sad makes me sad well buckle up because we're gonna get sadder soon. First though, back to revenge. Obara wants action. She wants accountability. She's like, every man in Dorne is asking what will the prince do to avenge his brother's murder? But Ario keeps saying to her, the prince does not want to be disturbed. I find that Arya just has a very interesting role in

relationship, though, with Doran. And I think some of it is he's kind of in something kind of like a Kingsguard role. But I haven't seen a lot of Kingsguard play this role. I'm sure that they do, right? Because they're always like, oh, a Kingsguard was stationed out of X person's door

in terms of acting like a bouncer because we do see Osmond Kettleblack do that for Cersei at the Seft when Jaime returns during A Storm of Swords and I think Aryo does do that but along with fulfilling that role as a Kingsguard

I think that, I mean, the title of the chapter is the Captain of Guards so Aryo Hota is maybe something kind of like a lord commander but because of his past as a slave soldier in the holy guard in norvos i guess he doesn't feel as empowered to speak out like the lord commander might he doesn't partake in this sort of decision making it seems like that a lord commander might do at a small council and i think there's to an extent which like maybe ario is giving us a perspective of an unsullied despite not having i think the same sort of

violence committed onto his body in the same way though obviously there is violence and that he's like forced to fight but yeah yeah we're definitely gonna talk more about it in the context of Ares of course since we chose them next to each other for very obvious reasons right they're both in Dorne both protecting their little princess talking about Jon, Jaime, Ares, and Ario all in the same stretch was on purpose. Like we chose this very much so purposefully to bring to you all because duty, right? Like duty,

duty being the death of honor, uh, duty is very big to serve, protect, obey. These are all rules that get played with in these arcs, in these kind of penal colonies that these men have joined. And Aereo's at a very unique position

because he left as you know trained as this soldier by the bearded priests but then he came to doran where things are different and the people are different and i definitely think that he gets lost in his youth george does bring us a little bit of that youth right he thinks about how he had come here from Norvo so long ago and he had obeyed the priests and they might be gray and now he's gray and scarred but he is still strong even in the context of kind of what he's been through this journey with this family and Dorne because that's what he is he's the royal family's guard I mean that's what he is how is he different from a king's guard and he seems to feel like he is is he still a slave does he get paid yeah i think that's like something that i'm wondering is he kind of like a knight right and that he has freedom right i mean

in dornish culture it seems like they're they might not be the kind of people to impose like wow we're gonna set up a system where you can't have sex as opposed to um maybe other parts of westeros i don't know unless they also believe that that's important for loyalty or whatever but i'm just like did malario free him or is he still like serving the dornish family in that sort of extent as a slave? It seems he chose to continue serving them from the way the chapter words it, but it's like there's quite obviously no explanation of, like, is there currency exchange? He gets a nice quarters, I'm sure, but, like, he's captain of the guards.

So, I mean, if we look at, but like he's captain of the guards so i mean if we look at you know yeah any captain of the guards throughout westeros i'd imagine it's supposed to be similar but it's adorned so nothing's similar and like a lord commander right is i mean the the commander of the gold cloaks right isn't sworn to celibacy but a lord commander of the king's guard as part of the king's guard is a lord commander of the night's watch as part of the night's watch is yet i don't know i just realized there's this really ambiguous area in which ariohota i don't know that he's if he's like a slave or not to the martels especially because they seem like they might be less likely to be okay with that but i mean they obviously weren't because malario came over with i guess her slave soldier he was assigned to their family originally right like to malario's

family so like to me it's like i don't think he's a slave now he's choosing but at the same time isn't that technically like where would he go so yeah mean, that's the problem is there's no fix for slavery, right? Like there's no rehabilitation for Erio Hota. There's no, would you, here's your choice, Erio, would you like to go somewhere else? Like what is he going to do as an ex-slave with no money, no land, no nothing? So I guess the best choice for slaves, which is garbage, is that like they just hope they get good masters or they hope they get good people who stop treating them like slaves yeah and like in westeros i guess it's technically illegal but that doesn't mean shit it is to an extent and obviously like the iron island screwed around this and i know this is a controversial thing

that i'm gonna say but there are times and i I'm not saying that this is what's happening to Aria Hota per se, but something that was in the back of my mind that I thought of is, there was this piece that came out a few years ago in The Atlantic. It was a biographical short story, and it was by a journalist, Alex Dizon, and it was called My Family's Slave, and it was about, it was published posthumously for the journalist, and it was about a woman named Yudosha who was quote-unquote gifted to the author's mother as a servant, but essentially what she really was was a slave to this family, she really was, was a slave to this family. And the family ended up immigrating from the Philippines to the US, and they would hide Yudosha. And she was sort of, and she continued to be held here as a slave, and stayed with the family for 56 years but was also integral right to raising the author to raising alex tizon and his siblings and um it was just very ingrained

in their family structure so i read this it came out in 2017, and it's a really jarring piece. That's sort of what I'm wondering if that's what's... I'm not saying that's what is happening here with Arya Hotha, but it's, again, just something that I had in the back of my mind and that came to me and I remembered as i'm trying to understand what ariohota's position is with the martells no this is a really this is a way to contextualize that i think says it better than we did it was uh i want to say it was alex t-zone's entire story basically and it was i remember it now because i think i sent it to like everyone

in my family but that's a really good way to contextualize it it really absolutely is because i mean the truth of the matter is like you or i will not go through slavery we won't experience this um and we won't experience i mean we won't experience what a mean, we won't experience what Arya Hota has experienced. We're also not going to wield a six foot long axe anytime soon, though I'm fingers crossed about it. And I don't know. I mean, that's something that I think is the bummer. Like Hota seems to be this blank passage, right? Like George put some thoughts and memories into him, but I want to know that. I want to know how he feels.

thoughts and memories into him but i want to know that i want to know how he feels and it does make me think as we're about to talk about that he won't go past a couple chapters in the winds of winter and i don't know that we'll ever get his feelings on this in full i hope we do yeah i i don't actually know and i think that's something that people kind of wonder. Why is Arya Hoth still in the Westeros? And it is a question to what extent he has any sort of choice and autonomy over his own life. And I think that's a question within the story right now. But at the moment, coming back to what's going on, Hoth still remains strong. He's refusing Obara passage. And you know know we didn't speak much of we didn't speak much of this person in the previous chapter with Ares the Kingsguard but I

do think another thing to bring into this discussion of Aryo and Ares besides real world things is the context of Barristan Selmy we'll come back to that throughout you know older he too almost had his own little princess you know yeah exactly

thinking about his youth guarding people while doran interrupts all of this right now literally everything you're saying doran is interrupting it he relents he says let her pass about obara to ariohota and they move to attend the prince. Erioh Hotha reflects on the maester, who had been in Dorne even longer than Hotha had. He'd even attended the unnamed princess, Dorne's mother. He's nimble for an older man, the maester, and he has a bald, round egghead, which I think is very important. Erioh thinks that maester is no match for the sand snakes. But Erio thinks that Maester is no match for the Sand Snakes. You know, this is again another time that Erio is thinking about the Sand Snakes versus people,

and he thinks he's a match for them. Just previously in that last little bit of time, he thinks, oh, I don't want to see Obara's blood on this marble, and it really does make me worry, especially with some of the places that they're going that have some really beautiful marble I'm sure. It's gonna be his blood. I'm pretty sure. Like the snakes are gonna burn themselves down in the end but Hota? I'm sorry. Obara's killing you

dude. Yeah I think it might be that or all of them at once right? He can take maybe one. How's he gonna get to King's Landing though? I don't know. They might all come back. Or at least more than one of them. Tyene and Nim are in King's Landing. Sorella's not going to kill Hotah.

And he's going off on a mission with Obara. Yeah. I just don't think he dies so quickly. I give him two. Two chapters. I think Matt feels the same way. And to speak of that, Matt, aka JoeMagician, recently did a Quarren stream, as he's been calling them, with Alicia Kingston,

also known as AK, who's also a Lord Commander, right? And everyone should check out that stream. We're going to refer to it quite a bit throughout this chapter, but it points out the usefulness of having Arya as the POV for all this is it helps

us establish pretty much how worthy the Sand Snakes are as warriors, using him as a metric. Yeah. Big, burly, six-foot axe, muscled. If he thinks that the Sand Snakes are warriors, if this big man thinks it, then my god. Well, also this

person who's, like, very sure thinks it, then my god. Well, also this person who's like very sure, yeah, of their fighting ability. But right now we're gonna get sad again. In the shade of the orange trees, the prince sat in his chair, with his gouty legs propped up before him and heavy bags beneath his eyes.

Though whether it was grief or gout that kept him sleepless, Hota could not say. This is me, propped up on my couch, daily. Doran greets Obara, asking if she remembers when she was a child in the water gardens. It wasn't too long ago since she was there, but she argues with him, and Obara says it was twenty years or so ago, a long time ago, a long time ago now. And this stuck out to me because Obara is here asking for vengeance from Doran, right? Like saying, like, let me go take the spears and let's do it.

And Obara calls 20 years ago, a long time ago. Doran says it's not so long ago. This is some really subtle shading. Obara is stuck in this moment of revenge, but for Doran, he's been living in this hell for 20 years. Obara says 20 years ago is a long time, but for Doran, that's

just part of when it started. That's when he lost Elia and the babes and Luwin. 20 years ago, for Doran, he blinks and he thinks of it. But for Obara, she's saying that was a long time ago, and yet here she is asking for vengeance. Girl's barking up the wrong tree. She should have taken the 20 years ago and, like, ran with that

and been like, what about your sister? I don't know. I just thought that was interesting how it was worded, that Obara's like oh 20 years ago is so long ago old man and it's like Obara that's what you're fighting for is 20 years ago yeah Torrin's like I've been thinking about this like every day for 20 years yeah and I there's another thing that Obara said that I did think was interesting we're not gonna probably dig into it that much but because this is not obara episode where obara was like actually i didn't spend that much time in the

water gardens you might not remember but i came a lot later because i was significantly more lowborn so anyway she once more demands that doran take action about his brother's murder but doran says that it was an agreed-upon trial by combat and hardly murder. And I'm like, you know, Doran's got a point. Technically not. I mean, Oberyn did go to the capital on a suicide mission. And, like, the first chance someone was like, here, sign this to say we have no responsibility if you die against this huge monstrous man

obron was like oh a waiver of course we have another line here of even the weight of a coverlet could make him shudder though he bore the pain without complaint silence is a prince's friend the captain had heard him tell his daughter once words are like arrows arianne once loosed you cannot call them back ah it's not arianne chapter time but it basically is and if that line ain't foreshadowing like remember when arianne is in the sand soon with her hands over her face going oh no everything's awful like that's all of the dorm plot obviously but that line once loosed you can't call him back arianne yeah she need only send back a word right dragon or war dragon or war also makes house toll and sigil

i digress also makes me think of uh another choice of words at the end of this book or closer to the end right the choose between sword or the noose for brienne and you know i mean this is really a phrase that covers a lot of a song of ice and fire right like look at sansa in the first book uh when they wrote the letter for her look at uh the letter for lord between jamie you know with him hanging out with bolton and being like ah yes you know make sure you give rob stark my regards uh words are like arrows once you lose you cannot call them back doran goes on to say he sent a letter to tywin which obara's not even underwhelmed at right like she's so low on the ground she's like okay she calls him half the man that her father was and doran says i know what you want you want me to go to war and obara's like i'm willing to do it myself i'll take the army in the bone way and in the prince's

past namaria will take half and we'll sack it all old town blood money that's a sufficient start yeah the prince pleads with her to look at the children in the garden and think of what starting a war could mean. And he describes his relationship with Oberyn a little bit to all of us. He says when they were children, Oberyn could topple any man bigger than he was. And Oberyn reminded Doran of that when he left for King's Landing. Aww. You know, we haven't done this yet during this reread, but the fight between Oberyn and Gregor, it does recall the story of David and Goliath

from the Bible, where, you know, David, at the time, was a young, small boy, and Goliath was a Philistine giant, very big, very strong, and David slays him when others could not and ended up dying with a stone from his sling and i think that you know this is like a big this is kind of like in

the cultural other right and people were kind of thinking that they're like yeah obran versus the mountain you know it really leans into that that archetype of a fight of the underdog. People fucking love underdog stories and made us think like, wow, yeah, Oberyn's going to do it. He's going to win. He's doing it. He's doing it. And I think Doran himself was also very much seduced into the story, seduced into the idea of rooting for the underdog. And Oberyn's own desire for vengeance himself, for Gregor to admit his own sin, is kind of what led to him slipping and dying and kind of threw everything apart. Yeah, and even here, I mean, the rock did get thrown, the poisonous rock. True, true, true. That did happen, to be fair.

It's just, you know, the effects took a while. Like, that did happen, to be fair. It's just, you know, the effects took a while. Yeah, Oberyn was like, I've got a plan B, but plan A would be pretty fucking rad. You might kill me, but I'm not going down without you going down. Yeah. Doran wishes that he could comfort Obara, but she interrupts to give her own story. I did not come to you for comfort.

Her voice was full of scorn. The day my father came to claim me, my mother did not wish for me to go. She is a girl, she said, and I do not think that she is yours. I had a thousand other men. He tossed his spear at my feet and gave my mother the back of his hand across the face so she began to weep.

Girl or boy, we fight our battles, he said, but the gods let us choose our weapons. He pointed to the spear, then to my mother's tears, and I picked up the spear. I told you she was mine, my father said, and took me. My mother drank herself to death within the year. They say she was weeping as she died. Obara edged closer to the prince in his chair. Let me use the spear. I ask no more. Hmm.

Yeah. What a great role model. Father figure. Positive female energy. You know, for O'Baro's mom. And Oberyn.

Yeah. It's not flattering. Listen, we might lose every listener we have for what I'm about to say. Oberyn's listener we have for what I'm about to say. Obrin's fine, I guess. He's a smarmy, fun character and all that,

but I don't know. He's not great. He's a supportive father to, I guess, the daughters that he has when they are already with him after stealing them from their mothers. And I think that's significant yeah i mean like alaria and ham have a great yeah vibe and relationship and those younger

sand sneaks are definitely uh seem to have had a more stable upbringing but i don't know something about going around and smacking around one of your five baby mamas in front of your kid. I'm a bastard, so I'm allowed to comment on this culturally because I have no blood relations. She's like, I am a bastard with one person I'm related to in my life. Like blood related, one person, my mom. She's adopted. I don't know anyone, right?

Like this is the only culture I know is hashtag bastard life. But like, I just just i don't know it doesn't feel great yeah george must have had a dad i'm just saying george had a dad yeah and there's that and like for him to just tear her from her mother right it's interesting it's definitely interesting yeah so doran says he'll sleep on it and send word to her then at sunspear which obara chides she's like you've slept for too long already and then she storms off to the stables in the hope of words of war and the maester asks if doran needs a draft for the pain

Doran declines and faces the next question is it safe to send the snakes, Obara particularly back to Sunspear and then Doran reveals to Maester Callio that he actually intends to go to Sunspear also asking him to write to

Arianne and say as much Arianne is excited because Arianne is his little princess. As we mentioned, obvious Ario and Aries parallels here. And it's interesting that as we approach Aries throughout the next while in Ario's chapters, Ario has no fondness for him, right? has no fondness for him, right? And there's something here about Arianne as Erio's princess, because Arianne is very much so standing in for Malario, it seems, right? Not just for Erio, for Doran in a few ways, too.

I mean, Arianne is a woman grown. She's 22-ish, somewhere in that range. And he's definitely protected her, her whole life. And like Myrcella to Aerys, Arianne is the only daughter that he would ever have, right? That Aria would ever have. But Arianne has some of her father's traits, and she obviously has a few traits that are not from Doran that we can guess are Malario or just herself. And it makes me think Erio is doing all he can to protect Arianne. And it's kind of a projection because he couldn't protect Malario and couldn't protect Malario's marriage and he

lost Malario and lost that dynamic. It also reminds me in a way of Jaime Lannister, like how he couldn't protect Rhaella and how he sees Sansa as his last chance for honor. You know, you're talking about some of this, the dynamic that they have. And I think there's also, to an extent, right, some parallels between how Barristan feels about protecting Daenerys as her Kingsguard. Sorry, sorry, the name of his chapter is the Queensguard. Okay. Yeah, and I think there's a similarity in that Arys, Aryo, and Barristan are all a sort of Kingsguard or Queensguard or Prince in parentheses, so Princess Princeguard

plopped into a different culture or land and how we get to experience all that through their eyes and interestingly our very first two chapters for Dorne are Outsiders, right, it's both Ario and Ares and in, but in both Ares and Barristan, we I think get a lot of

judgment from the people whose cities and cultures and places they're in at that point. There's a lot of judgment of their customs, of their cultures. There's kind of like a sense of they feel like the people around them are maybe dirty or uncivilized or very scary, they're in harsh conditions, they feel like everyone wants to kill them. And they also have these moments where they adjust their clothing to meet these new climates. I think it's interesting that Aryo ends up keeping his copper armor, which is probably really difficult and hot, as Alicia and Matt point out. They go into a deeper discussion about what this armor might mean and we're not going to talk about that here because we're not but also as an incentive for you to go check out their stream and listen to what they have to say but ario's chapters i

think are framed quite differently from ari's and bare sins it's the very first that we're seeing of dorn and george seems to be using the the technique of kind of having an outsider coming in to help the audience become more accustomed to this new place. You see it a lot in, I don't know, a lot of fucking stories, right? Like the newbie brought into an organization or a new order that they never knew anything about.

Secret order, learning all the things. Same as you, the audience. Learning about the world along with the character um and ario's chapters have a lot of that introduction but ario as opposed to ari's embarrassment has actually been in dorn for quite a while and has assimilated in some ways and doesn't really i think pass judgment on the people there right he doesn't feel like an outsider because he's nervoshi even though he misses home. He feels like an outsider to the reader because he doesn't have very many friends

because he was originally brought here as a slave bodyguard, though he's in this weird ambiguous place and we don't know if he is still or not. And he doesn't feel like an outsider himself by now. Even Arianne regards him with a lot of fondness. Yeah, and I think there's definitely something in the Barristan idea, especially Barristan ruling in Meereen and that Queensguard chapter, of course. There's definitely something there, even in the way that Daenerys' naivety, how she kind of rejects some of the information he tries to give her about Aerys, right? And Arianne has that same naivety as we see.

You know, Aerio feels nothing but, I'm sorry, princess. Like, this is how it goes after he has to, you know, kill her boyfriend. He wanted to die. I think there's something in that yeah absolutely and also like good for ariel let him have some fun i guess once in a while uh ariel can have some murder as a treat no i just i'm sad for aries i suppose but definitely something in the naivety of the

princesses that they guard uh look at aries and marcecella. Yeah. So Maester Caelio warns Doran people will see the shape he's in if he comes in public to Sunspear, which not great, right? Like things aren't going great, especially not for a ruler. Two years ago, Doran could walk around with a cane and now he's lucky to get around in his chair. Ario even worries and thinks that he would have to fly to sit on top of the Tower of the Sun. I mean, the stairs are so long, the old palace, the shadow city's full of eyes. And Doran argues, he says, I have to be seen by my people.

The maester warns he'll also need to spend time with Princess Myrcella and her white knight Aerys, who is of course writing letters back to King's Landing. Aereo lingers on the white knight, who accompanied his princess to Dorne, much like Aereo did with Melario years ago, but Aereo doesn't think they have much else in common. Aerys serves the Iron Throne, and Aereo senses that one day they'll fight. iron throne and ario senses that one day they'll fight he slides his hands up and down his waifu the axe thinking that day might come sooner than he expected literally in a few chapters we never know you never know but apparently ario did and i'm just like how did he know how could he feel it how could he just feel can you just sometimes feel like yeah i'm gonna fight that person like there's something that in the language i think was kind of fun here because at first you're like oh ario's sad thinking about aries and you're like is he

is it envy he's kind of like jealous of like aries's life and then he's like no i'm sad because i'm gonna kill him one day it is like at first it fakes you out you're like oh like you expect him to say i feel sad because i can relate and i have empathy because i've done the same thing and coming here with a princess to a foreign land and it's just like nope just gonna kill him i feel kind of sad for ariane i guess ish or marcella or something i don't know he doesn't feel sad he says could you see it like in aries's eyes was he like that boy has a death wish i mean yeah that that that boy is an idiot so i mean you look at him and his stupid big puppy dog eyes because he's literally iris is literally the human golden retriever of the doran story

mr peanut butter actually i never i didn't get that far and i i don't know season two or three then it made me like really sad well maybe pick another dog like marley and me because that dog dies too wow but i don't know if mr peanut butter dies or not it's just like a depressing fucking show i know people love it prince doran calls out for the captain who is again not feeling very empathetic and ariel comes to take him away in his chair doran asks if ariel had siblings in norvos and ariel tells him that he had two brothers three sisters he was the youngest he thinks he was the youngest and unwanted that he was a mouth to feed a big boy who ate a lot outgrew his clothes and of course

they had sold him to the bearded priests so his family sold him to the beardest priests. Doran tells him that he was the oldest, and yet now he's the last. Actually, that's really fucking sad, too. We don't get a perspective from Ario on these lines, but there is something, I think, to be said here, class and status, of how Ario was unwanted and therefore sold as a slave, whereas Oberyn was the youngest, also of House Martell, and he was free to go wherever the fuck he wanted, right? He had that afforded to him, and he was so beloved, right?

And now he has this whole kingdom of Westeros that wants to go to war for his memory, so... Arya has no feelings on this. What do they tell? Their ancestors landed here and got lucky after some like work they put in and it's them that are the guys that are leading these big amazing you know like it's a weird thing of like it goes right back to what you know that i get in many arguments about with stannis in john's arc of why is Stannis more important than one free folk?

Yeah. Why? Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I think it's a question and lesson in equality. And especially when you look at Erio, you know, who doesn't have anywhere to go. It's more than that. I mean, Oberyn could go anywhere. His memory is bringing war and ariel hota is just a servant and a soldier of this war and of this message and

ariel has nowhere else to go he'll just be in this war one way or another yeah he'll live die and serve for this family we could have had like a moment of opinion in there but i guess i don't know for some reason it wasn't written in anyway the prince doran tells him that elia wasn't meant to live actually and obran ended up being a surprise wow talk about being like you were obran was unplanned as you were in life obran as you were in life then doran says yet here i sit and they are gone wow that's sad yep yep yep all the sad stuff today and erio hota does not know how to respond to his prince which makes sense because you know he's never been allowed to explore these feelings until this chapter he thinks about his basic principles serve obey protect simple vows for simple men, the bearded priests had told him. A rotten orange breaks this silence. Doran winces as if it hurts

him, and he asks to be left alone for just a while longer. Doran sits for a few hours, even past the children going in for dinner. He eats a bit of the tapas that are brought to him, and he drinks the strong wine he loves so much served with them, which, same, to both of those, it sounds delicious. And, god, poor Ario, like, again, hearkening right back to what you just said, simple vows for simple men, that's what the priests would say to him? That's the same problem with the Kingsguard and the Night's Watch, and aren't simple men and these aren't simple vows. You can say they're three simple words, but they're not. What happens when your simple men grow sentient? It's not just guarding the royal family as all of these people that we've been talking about learn mostly to their dismay.

We're humans. We can't just turn off your emotions. And being a soldier, like you talked about with Arya earlier, it doesn't remove your identity, something we explore with Arya throughout the series in excess. And I'd argue that the POVs of all of the point of view chapters, not counting prologues, epilogues, Arya is the least emotionally developed. Even Melisandre, I feel like we finally get some sort of direction on her character to understand like, ah, yes, kind of a crazy bitch still. But like, she's been through some shit and she's on a mission. Like something is happening with Melisandre chick that we didn't understand before. Where Arya, we have to make a lot of guesses about these internal feelings.

where Ario, we have to make a lot of guesses about these internal feelings. And even so, pieces and bits of his life are kind of bleeding through his role in this chapter. And I think that's really important to take, that we're getting some of these memories paired with his serving and obeying and protecting. We might not be getting the internal feelings or insight, but we're at least getting these memories, which means he's thinking of them. Yeah, and hopefully we do get more in a perspective and i do wonder you know is that a shortcoming right of the way that ario is written because then he feels because he we don't really get his him as fleshed out is that why people are like yeah he's gonna die in winds of winter which you know he might but like is that a fault then in the writing of him i think so i do um i do think that's a fault in the storytelling leading up to what his climactic moments of his

pov will be uh and that's why i'm like two chapters i think we can get at least a little more out of him i just don't think we can see him through past the middle of the book. I think that's asking a lot personally, maybe like one in the beginning of the book, one in the second half of the book and then dead. But like, I just don't know if that book has room for him. But I do think it's a flaw in the writing. And I think that George, when he split up all of Dorne and learned, oh, well, I guess I have to give a POV chapter to 800 people now to explain this whole entire new plot after all,

and I can't just leave it with one person in Arianne and in Oberyn and Storm, learning, like, from Arianne is the POV is not enough. Then came Quentin. Then came Erio. I don't know. That might not be logistically true, you know, but it's just like it feels like he didn't think.

It was more like, here's part of the story, Erio Hotah, that I need you to tell. Yeah. But where's Erio Hotah's story? Concerned. How much are we projecting? And I don't know if this is going to happen or if I would like it or not, per se. I don't know if this is gonna happen or if I would like it or not, per se. Matt and Alicia

brought up a really good point that REO hasn't had a moment yet, right, where he wrestles. He has that human heart in conflict with itself moment. I think, you know, that moment could be coming. But... That moment could be coming, and it could be with

a spear. That's the thing. is it gonna come or is it just gonna be the spear without that moment right like does george right is george gonna i think he has to build it up i think because i think the like the crux of all of this that we're learning if there's one thing that ario cares about in this world it's doran and arianne right like that's what he has he takes care of the prince he loves his little princess he has grown to love this family whether it's a little stock homie that he loves his family i mean they're they seem to be nice-ish people you know ish give or take depending on the person

so i don't know i don't know it's either here nor there but whether or not he has come to love doran and i do think i know poor quentin theorized that he would at least get back and see doran before he died right uh but i don't know i don't know if that's something that'll happen i think that obara is definitely going to be involved in his death likely dark star um that is where his plot seems to be heading so So I don't know. I'd imagine that trying to stop Obara from doing something that Doran wouldn't approve of or doing something against what Doran wanted could be part of that conflict.

And defending Doran's whole shtick would be Ario's thing. But it does bum me out that it's in service of that. I think if anything it would be in regards to Doran and Arianne, but it seems like he's already made that choice once before and chose Doran.

There are some other seeds in here that we can dig into as to if that could be the crux of it. Right now though, we are in those deep dark hours of the late, late night. Ario finds Doran asleep in his chair and then finally wheels him over to his bed. Ario's chamber is joined to Doran's.

He sits on his bed, honing his sword, like the priests had taught him. The day that they branded him, they told him he must keep his long axe sharp, and so he did. He thinks of Norvos high on the hill, yet low beside the river. He thinks of Norvos high on the hill, yet low beside the river. He thinks of the three bells shaking his bones and Nara and Niel's strong voice and laughter.

So this is an interesting passage how it's written. The three bells in Norvos that ring are named Nara, Noom, and Niel. But something about this passage combines kind of with what he told Doran about his family. He had two brothers and three sisters. There are three bells. I think his sisters were actually named for the bells because he says, and Nara and Niel's strong voice and laughter,

which sounded separate from the bells and just the structure and the way George said it. And it also reminds me of Samwell 4 in this book when Eamon is talking about his family and talking about death and how he says, yet I cannot help but wonder what will follow when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the father's golden hall as a septon say? Will I talk with egg again, find Darren whole and happy, hear my sisters singing to their So it reminded me a bit of that passage. And I thought it was an interesting look into if his sisters are named for the three bells. Nara is a Nigerian name, which means God owns me.

And Nial doesn't actually have a common meaning but it is arabic and spanish in its origin from what i've seen huh just a little tidbits i don't know i thought that was such an interesting connection just the way that george structured the paragraph made it seem like his siblings may have been named after the three bells of norvos interesting interesting yeah i think it'd be that would be some at least something right about his history world building and tell us about his his family right if they're named after the bells we do get a little bit more of that history too because he talks about uh for example he remembers his branding and it's awful memory but then he remembers instead of the burnt hair from his branding he remembers his mother wearing a special dress with a squirrel

fur collar that she only wore for special occasions like when they would go see the bear fights on the sinner's steps and it's not just that that he remembers he remembers food like winter cake with ginger pine nuts nuts, cherry, washed down with NASA fermented goat milk and honey, which sounds really okay right now. I'd be into all this. Yeah. But he remembers these memories and he's again, it's sensory like what you were

saying. This is very sensory. He's remembering the food. He's remembering the textures and it goes from memory to memory. He remembers his branding and the hair burning, but then he remembers burnt hair and he thinks of squirrel fur. So it's like his culture is kind of blending into this life that he has for himself. Yeah, that's a great point.

And so I know not everything is brainy, right? But there is some Brienne and Jamie feels going on, right? Bear fighting on the sinner's steps. It feels significant he'd watch bear fights on the sinner's step with his family. And bear baiting was really significantly popular from the 12th through 19th century. It's not as popular now, of course, but we'll talk about that because there are people that have practiced it like in the last decade. Henry VIII of fucking Horx was super into it it was like his whole thing of course it was and elizabeth uh the first liked it as well she actually overruled it being banned by parliament on

sundays they were trying to ban it for religious reasons and she's like oh no i like my bears to fight and it is definitely still an occurrence. Like you might not hear about it, but in Pakistan, as of 2004, in South Carolina, as recent as 2010 to 2013, it's banned in 18 of the 28 states that allow bear hunting. Bear baiting and bear fighting persists

in Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Utah, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. In Wisconsin in 2002, hunters killed 2,400 something bears. And yeah, they take the animals and all, but sometimes they do bear baiting and they have them fight, especially like bulldogs. Wait, they fight the bulldogs? Yeah, apparently. They use the bulldogs to bait them into dancing and fighting. Huh. I've told you about

why bulldogs are called bulldogs and have squishy faces before, right? Have I addressed that yet on this podcast? I don't think you have. This is just a fact that I know off the top of my head. Bulldogs have those squishy faces. And they're called bulldogs because they actually, kind of like with bear baiting, were used for wrangling bulls as well, right? Especially like the bullfights and the squishy faces.

Their faces are like that because it's easier to sustain like impact or something like that so and i think that they would grab maybe the bulls by like the nose i'm not sure but anyway bulldogs actually had to do had to relation with bulls so i did not know that actually about dachshunds too okay well i'll be sure to keep you on my list for when i do a podcast about dogs i will call you up yeah that one's actually more wholesome the dachshund one but right now facts about ariah hota once his axe is sharpened enough he lays it down undressing for bed he thinks he should have picked up the fallen oranges and sleeps dreaming of them and their sticky red juices all over his fingers and and to be honest, I highly

empathize with the regret of not eating the oranges or not eating things in general in a very literal sense. He was regretting not picking them up like off the ground. But I thought he was going to eat them too. I mean, they're all rotten, Eliana.

Only part of it, probably. You know, okay, not the whole onion is rotten contrary to some people's opinions so i cook with the other dream is pretty strong eliana let's backtrack on your eating rotten oranges for a second sticky red juices coating his fingers hmm like blood Hmm. Like blood? I think you're right. Is it a metaphor? It is a metaphor. Blood? It is.

It is. Hmm. Hmm. Turns out the oranges are a metaphor. Well, morning comes really quickly. Hotah assembles the guard. 30 swords stay behind to protect the children at the water gardens. Hmm.

20 come as the prince's guard. Hotah dresses in his copper and iron armor, but he laces fabric in and out of the metals so he doesn't actually burn himself with the sun. He uses his gold silks. Doran procrastinates. Some of that is due to gout and pain. Some is due to his nature, of course.

He eats, which sounds great, ham, fiery peppers, gull egg, and he says goodbye to some of his favorite children from the water gardens. I know we don't detail depression in Westeros, right? Like, we talk about Ill and Pain's room. Ill and Pain's room is very quite obviously like either a 13-year-old boy who plays too much Xbox and pees into water bottles or or it's a depressed man who has had a job as a killing machine and has literally not

been able to talk for most of his life now um so we see that it's a pretty good depiction of seeing you know that depression but i feel like no one talks about what doran like not only is he completely traumatized he's depressed he's so depressed everyone just keeps dying and he's disabled when your joints are swollen and hurt and they're physically big i can tell you that when you wake up you want to cry and you want to go back to sleep again. And after that, you have to slowly coax yourself out of bed and lie to yourself that you're going to be rewarded if you get yourself out of bed. And then you have to go live this life that you, predefined, already have to live. So like in my case, it's waking up for a company that doesn't have its shit together, being a girlfriend, caretaking for my cats if I can, trying to make

it so my partner doesn't have to use his energy on me that he is stored up for himself. In Doran's case, it's, oh, ruling a nation, being a father and an uncle, just some murderous girls, a leader. Some days you just want to stay still for six hours and cry, which is what Doran did under the orange trees when he learned Oberyn died. Yeah, and for that, everyone called him weak and he wasn't he's carrying so much yeah they keep just insulting you're gonna die doran what yeah we all do that's true that's true the oranges that's us the rotten oranges plopping down slowly um band name i'd rather be a cool sticky sweet blood orange than i don't know to be fair the rotten oranges is like what the moldy peaches is this a westerosi moldy peaches cover band i haven't listened to the moldy peaches in a long ass time um what also takes a longass time is them taking off. They don't leave until midday.

Lady Nym catches up with them on their way there. She asks to accompany them to Sunspear, and Doran says he'd appreciate the company to take his mind off of his joint pain on the road, and Nym brings up her true purpose, vengeance for Oberyn, Elia, and her children. And Doran answers her with, a Lannister always pays his debts,

and that he knows what she wants, Obara would have him go to war. But Nymeria says no, no, no. Obara would settle for Oldtown, even though she hates it as much as their little sister loves it. Ah, their little sister? You mean Sarella? Ella? Ella? Eh? Eh? Eh? Under my Sarella? their little sister you mean sorella ella ella a a a under my sorella

just kidding it's hilarious it doesn't work when you say hilarious it doesn't i do love what a subtle like obviously we know we all already know that sorella hilarious like we we know it's a rebrand podcast but i did not notice that line before i totally forget that she's the younger sister of all of them and uh that obara hates it as much as sorella loves it it's like this chapter should have told you who sorella was i get it it's only two chapters later i get it i get it i get it now i get it good job george good job yeah it is actually you're right two chapters later and that's structured intentionally so you can maybe start piecing that together anyways Nymeria explains that she was a bad

with the Fowler twins when news of Oberyn hit her and just like that and that just like House Fowler's words she asked that Doran let her soar and that she only needs one sweet sister to do so, Tyene. Tyene, who is sweet, gentle, and would help Nym claim the four lives that she plans to take. The Lannister twins, so that's two, Cersei and Jaime. The old lion, Tywin, and then the little king, Tommen. Uh, yes, uh, the, uh, 298 AC's called. They, uh, bad news about that Tywin. Right.

Um, okay, so my favorite thing about this, and I think George is doing this on purpose right here, like, I didn't think about it until now. She literally, within the same paragraph, is like, well, I was fucking the blonde Fowler twins uncle doran you see you know we were playing in bed me and these two blonde twins jenna lynn and jenna line or whatever their damn names are and uh also we should kill the twins that are blonde yeah that is interesting isn't that not a cool line like there's definitely something there that she was a bad with blonde twins. And then it goes into blonde twins that they should kill. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, there's something there.

I feel like he planned it. Yeah. That he's playing with. Yeah. And more than that, there's something else there. So something that I'm working on in my essay that will never come out about King's Landing someday. And is some of the stuff with Cersei. that I'm working on in my essay that will never come out about King's Landing someday, and is some of the stuff with Cersei. Nymeria is going to the council right now. When we get to Cersei

someday, it's going to be freaking lit, my friends, because there's so much to connect. I'm so excited. Nymeria is going after this to King's Landing to sit on the small council and take the Dornish seat that was offered to them from Tywin, right? And like, that's part of Dorne's whole little, like, okay, if you guys would just shut up and wait, I have some plans, doesn't mean they're good plans or that they're gonna work. But she's gonna go there. And we've already seen kind of what Cersei does with exotic women in her court, right? That are, well, I mean, look at this right here. Nymeria is very much so kind of manipulating Doran

and kind of talking sweet. I mean, each one has their way. We know Obara is brusque. She is not going to be sweet and smart about confronting Doran about this. And he said, no, Nymeria is here and she is a little, she's a little flashy, right? She's a little bit of an exhibitionist, but she knows how to try to ingratiate herself

with Dorne and say, oh, uncle, oh, uncle, it's so great to see you. How can I help you with things? And oh, we're going to do this, uncle. And Tyene's approach is much softer, but Nymeria will be a smooth talker. She's going to get to King's Landing. And I have a strong feeling that she might do some seduction of Cersei. Whether it's actual fleshy seduction, right? Like, whether it's, like, swampy. I don't know if it's going to be swampy, per se. But she's at least going to manipulate and be able to schmooze Cersei to her way, right?

And I feel like this, maybe this is almost foreshadowing for that. Maybe Nymeria Abed with a blonde twin might be Nymeria Abed with Cersei. You never know. Yeah, I think that's a very good point. And I mean, like, they both have types. Very good point. And I mean, like, they both have types, you know, as you said, Circe seems to be into non-mastrocy women, which, you know, I guess that's a type someone can have. And Lady Nim, also into blondes, both of them. Very, they got types, I guess. Blonde twins, nonetheless. Yes. Well, Doran doesn't really agree with this assessment though, right? Like, these people that she wants to kill, Doran's like

I don't really think that's fair. The little king Tommen isn't guilty of anything. And Nymeria she's no longer playful and flirty with Uncle Doran. She's like, only royal blood can wash out my father's murder. Like, we will be killing these motherfuckers. Uncle Doran.

There's quite a bit of irony, though, then, throughout this chapter, because first of all, none of them have royal blood. Pointing that out there. They're kind of yes and no in that they're in power right now, but also, as you were saying, right? Ugh. We're all going to war.

To claim Tywin's dead. To claim Tywin's head. Wow, Freudian slip and I fucking ruined the joke. Because that, yes. Tywin's dead and Cersei learns it in the very next chapter. Everyone's behind. Except for Tyrion. Yeah. It's like.

And Jaime. It's very ironic. Yeah. It is kind of silly, right? Because Dorne is, they're always late. They're always late on the uphaul. And here it is. Like this is, y'all are late on that one too.

You can't kill Tywin because you're late. It's over. Already dead. Yeah. Dorne pushes back at her again about all this, right? Because he says Oberyn chose to be in a trial by combat in front of all of westeros and namiria is like no and she says call it what you will we sent them the finest man in dorn and they are sending back a bag of bones true i'm gonna just leave the slot here ned ned's bones but also a bag of bones hosea you know it's interesting you say

hosea there are some uh really strong kind of hostagy parallels here right with the children at the water garden and yeah doran leaving the 30 guards to guard them just Just doesn't feel good, does it? What's going to happen to all these hostages in the Winds of Winter, Eliana? Probably something bad. You know, Doran's starting to go down a similar road as Tywin, it seems. And Jaime Lannister is like, let's take these child hostages too. A lot of people taking child hostages right now. It's this weird trend. I think a lot of

people seem to feel like Doran is some, you know, timid. He's the grass, Oberyn's the snake, as we know. But everyone feels like Doran is really timid, and Oberyn definitely pushed Doran when he was alive. And he went beyond anything Doran had actually asked of him.

Doran had said, go to King's Landing, learn about the new king, find allies, don't provoke the lions. And he wanted justice more than anything. Both of them did, but Oberyn could not wait any longer. Yeah. Numerio says 17 years is a long time to wait. And if Doran had been the one who died, Oberyn would have waged war immediately on the capital. She tells her uncle, she and her sisters will not wait 17 years for their vengeance, and she rides off on her horse, leaving him behind. Erio notices that Doran's in pain, but if he needed the maester, he would have called for himself.

They ride until they see the slender spear tower, and then the mighty Tower of the Sun, which is just magnificent i love the description with its dome of gold and leaded glass last the dun colored sand ship looking like some monstrous drummond that had washed ashore and turned to stone oh there's another stone reference yeah i didn't notice that that's really funny okay turning to stone turning to stone interesting interesting interesting the leagues of coast between sunspear and the water gardens are small but very different worlds music sunshine and children were prominent in the citrus-filled gardens but in sunspear it smells of

dust and sweat and smoke even the colors were different pink marble in the gardens whereas the shadow city is made of muddy brick and it was no in uh to quote great city but also as ario thinks it was the closest thing to a real city that sun spear had nymeria beat them there by a few hours alerting everyone to their coming as the threefold gate was opened wide the small folk shout out to the caravan as they arrive. The snakes had stirred the people. People are just shouting, to spears! Vengeance for the Red Viper! War! War! To spears! Yeah.

One thing I wanted to put in here, I don't know if it's a true thing or not, but the threefold gate. Interesting that he named it the threefold gate when he has his little threefold writing that he does, right? Where he puts something in, puts it in a little harder, and then the third time puts it in the hardest, and then the reveal, right? And I almost just wonder if something's going to happen with the threefold gate.

I'm going to look it up later, but I just wonder if something might happen with this threefold gate. Isn't it just a weird name to name something? I get it because it folds out three times, but. But as you said, the threefold, it is an interesting name. It is. I might just do some research on that and come back to you next episode. episode. Well, in the meantime, they have lemons, limes, and oranges, but all of those fruits are being thrown from the crowd. Oh, at Doran's, uh, at Doran, at everyone, although most near the front kind of fall back when they see Eryohotad, his giant axe, but the ones in the back, they keep

throwing them. The porticolus closes behind them and drowns out the sounds of people's yells and screams, and Princess Arianne awaits her father with half the court. Manfrey Martell, young Maester Miles, Dornish knights in flowing silk, and of course, the Princess Myrcella with her septa and her white knight. First of all, where do you think they got those lemons? I'm just kidding. That was a joke. First of all, where do you think they got those lemons? I'm just kidding. That was a joke. Second of all, second of all, we spoke about this in the Ares chapter, but the last time we saw Ares and Myrcella in the books at all in this story up until this moment in this chapter was that Tyrion IX chapter, right? In Clash as they boated away from the Riot of Kings landing. So when we see this story up until this moment in this chapter was that tyrian nine chapter right in clash as

they voted away from the riot of king's landing so when we see them again doran is actually being brought in during the makings of a riot wow marcella just like riots just go with her wherever she goes huh she's a riot girl she is punk rock good just kidding I could see Marcella having a punk rock phase anyways someone else going through their rebellious phase Princess Ariane strode to the litter on snakeskin sandals laced up to her thighs

her hair was a mane of jet black ringlets that fell to the small of her back and around her brow was a band of copper sunblack ringlets that fell to the small of her back, and around her brow was a band of copper suns. She is still a little thing, the captain thought. Where the sand snakes were tall, Arianne took after her mother, who stood but five foot two. Yet beneath the jeweled girdle and loose layers of flowing purple silk and yellow samite,

she had a woman's body, lush and roundly curved. Father, she announces the curtains opened. Sunspear rejoices at your return. Doran says that he heard the joy on his way in, and Aryo helps him down. Arianne announces his favorite foods are to be made, although Doran doesn't really feel like he can do them justice. He asks where Tyene is, as she's not present with everyone else there to greet him. Arianne says she waits in the throne room for him, seeking his counsel in private. Ah yes, the ghost of Christmas future.

Tota takes him up the winding stairs to the throne room, where the light is cascading down through the glass dome dappled casting hundreds of colors about the room there tyene stands from her seat in a gown of pale blue samite with mirish lace sleeves embroidering with her golden needles interesting her hair honey blonde her eyes deep blue doran still sees oberyn and his viper eyes in them. In all of his children, in fact. Viper eyes. I don't know the rest of the words to the song, turns out. Never mind. There were two seats on the dais, near twin to one another, save that one

had the Martell spear inlaid in gold upon its back, whilst the other bore the blazing, groinish sun that had flown from the mass of Nymeria's ships. When first they came to Doran, the captain bore the blazing groinish sun that had flown from the mass of Nymeria's ships when first they came to Dorne the captain placed the prince beneath the spear and stepped away

I'm sure we've danced around this idea today but it's so it's so symbolic this is where the prince of Dorne should be right? propped under the dornish spear and sun ruling proudly but Dorne is broken. Instead, our prince has been weeping quietly in the orange trees of the water gardens for

innocence lost, and his princess, Melario, has gone into another castle to shut herself away from him. You get a lot of that trappings of power feel, right? Like thrones are just things and power resides where men think it resides, blah blah blah but definitely, innocence lost is what it feels like. This is what the kingdom should be. It should have this beautiful dappled rainbow

light coming in from the dome and a lively court and it's not. Yeah, that's true. It's a kingdom that's been in mourning for the past 17 years hoping for action

enjoying their prince who's now dead and by that I mean Oberyn they all have prince and princess attachment names and as you said there's an innocence lost vibe here and I kind of feel that way about the entirety of a feast for crows which

is part of why i love it so much like running throughout it you have this this feel of the fall and the garden of eden and and i think this chapter really conveys that very strongly you have doran as you said leaving the water garden but in a way that's also the garden of eden right and with the children running through them as innocents and out into the wilderness out into the deserts of dorn and then three times throughout this chapter he's approached by snakes tempting him so there's a lot of that i think that's a perfect point didn't even think about the snake part. Duh. Really good. Tyene sweetly asks Doran if it hurts, and Doran asks her to be quick and get to her point. Hey.

Needles. Which point? Because you already dealt with the brusque, rude sisters. She gives him her embroidery, which shows Oberyn on his steed, and passive-aggressively says to him, She made it for him to help him remember her father, as many think he's forgotten him. And Doran's like, yeah, I remember. She's like, do you remember? Doran tells her the same tale.

Tywin will give them the mountain's head for this atrocity. But Tyene, like her sisters, sings the song of war. And not just war. She explains to Doran that, you know, let me tell you, let me tell you a little bit about law, Dorne. Myrcella is the lawful heir, not Tommen. She's made to be queen, like her mother. And we have this line. When good King Daeron wed Princess Meria and brought us into his kingdom, it was agreed that Dornish law would always rule in Dorne. And Myrcella is in Dorne, as it happens.

What a coincidence, Tyene. Grudgingly, Dorne admits, okay, well, you got a point there, Tyene, and I'll think on it. But Tyene says all he does is think on things and that some men think because they're afraid to do. And those men become gym teachers. No, I'm just kidding. There's no school anymore. Things get heated and Hota bangs his axe on the ground, telling Tain that she presumes too much of the prince. So this is a big moment that Hota interrupts, right? He comes out of camera mode and she was quite physically close to him. She had her hand raised toward him

and she immediately falls to one knee, apologizing, asking her uncle if he will still love her and saying her heart is broken to pieces and that she meant no ill will. She takes her leave. Maester Kaleot immediately checks Doran for holes because they all think Tyene would have poisoned him

because that's what she does. Her whole thing is like tiny needles, lots of poison, stab, stab, stab. That's what you need to know about Tyene. That's what George just taught us. And I don't, look, we talked about this in REN. This isn't an REN chapter, but it can be for a hot second. We don't know who told on arianne on page we've talked it to death but if you've forgotten here is where i stand and why i think it's important to call out here doran knew he figured it out and likely because of this exact moment they're all worried about poison on doran but tyene actually just told doran their entire game plan, which is to crown Myrcella. If you remember back in A Storm of Swords, Oberyn told this pretty much same speech to Tyrion about

Myrcella and crowning her. Arianne has literally been hanging out with Tyene nonstop. Like this is all you guys see this is connected, right? Like, you get it, right? Like, this has been the whole Oberyn wing of the family plan to get their vengeance. And Doran's the only one that hasn't been on board, so like, here we are again. Yeah, you just have Doran, like, I don't know, you know, pinching that little bridge between the eyebrows, just like, oh my fucking family my daughter and i i think there's a lot of merit to what you're saying like doran's just like oh my fucking god and i mean turns out he figured it out right because he's a man who thinks here he was not afraid to do yeah yeah he is definitely a man who thinks here and uh doran's gonna kind of think about this even further because they check him out things are dandy no poison he actually requests some milk

of the poppy he's like can i just get a hit of that and then he turns to hota and he's like all right ariel which of my guards are loyal and ariel's like they're all loyal sir if any of them betray you i will bring you their heads and doran doesn't want heads he says he wants obedience he then commands hota to quickly and quietly as possible take all of the sand snakes all eight even the younger into custody before they further inflame the city. Barring Sarella, because she's not there, he says, leave her to her game. Of thrones? Of thrones, oh my god.

And that, that's his goal, that's his command, that's what he wants Erio to go to. It is a hard job, but someone's gotta do it. Yeah, and I think it's significant right here with even the children. We end up getting a reprise of serve, obey, protect, simple vows for a simple man. And I'm going to say if that motto, the serve, obey, protect, sounds familiar to you at all, outside the context of A Song of Ice and Fire, that's because it is. The motto of the LAPD is to protect and to serve and has become adopted by other police forces since then a couple of them were like I like that idea but you know what is not a great idea

what's not great the LAPD also has as many police forces do a history of police brutality and it's an issue that has actually served as a flashpoint for many protests and riots one of the most famous of course being the one that of the most famous, of course, being the one that follows the beating and use of excessive force against Rodney King, a Black American, in 1992. And I bring up a lot of this history of this motto because, as part of this context, because this issue of police and corruption and police brutality is something that I think is part of how we should understand Arya Hota's background, his context in the story, and the issues of power, as we know, hold a lot of the political power. A theocratic government, which you know, of course, means ruled by the priests, ruled in the name of God, whatever.

And they train and hold power over the Holy Guard. The Holy Guard are not just bodyguards, right? In Norvos, they're not like the Unsullied in terms of having a private slave military that people can just purchase, the World of Ice and Fire describes the purpose of the Holy Guard as to enforce obedience and keep the peace. That's the quote. The Holy Guard is the state patrol slash law enforcement body in Norvos. They're controlled by the theocratic slash, you know, these religious leaders, and it is made up of slave soldiers taken from families who cannot afford to have more children or from the lower classes. And some, like Hota, do end up being, I guess, dispersed, I don't know, and given as private security guards for the nobility, like Melario's family. And again, you know, I'm saying all this because I'm contextualizing what Doran is doing here and asking of Hotah as I assume that Doran has not often asked Hotah to do something truly dishonorable. But here we are seeing him have a moment where he's starting to question his vows, serve, obey, protect. And I think the question here for Hota, as the question is for many of the real world police forces,

is, all right, serve whom? Obey whom? Protect whom? Like, who are these vows actually in service to? Who's being protected by them? And it doesn't look like it's the people right as hota is being asked to round up even the children among the sand snakes to be held hostage i mean aria hota is not a knight right but it's that same question what does it mean to protect is imprisoning innocent people is that is that necessary for for protection it's the same question that jamie and a lot of the other kings guards silenced within themselves during the reign of aries it's really uh insightful

that you called out the lapd on this and there is a from basically uh from the policefoundation.org they have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath right which is one of the most binding documents in history written in antiquity it's of course super sacred to doctors treat the sick to the best of one's ability preserve patients privacy teach the secrets of medicine to the next generation, so on. And there is something that thepolicefoundation.org has put out that is what the police's Hippocratic Oath might look like. Hippocrates once wrote, of course, wherever the art of medicine is loved, there is also a love of humanity. And thepolicefoundation.org says that they think it should be said of their noble profession as well and this would look like i solemnly swear i fulfill my duty according to the tenets of this oath i'll honor the tradition and sacrifice of those officers who've preceded

me and seek to pass on my knowledge and experience to those who follow my path. I'll faithfully serve and protect my community while recognizing policing is strong medicine and must be delivered at the right dose. I'll remember policing as an art and science. I seek to carry my craft skillfully, judiciously, and with empathy. I remember policing, especially its coercive elements, is not a panacea for social ills. I will not be ashamed to de-escalate, wait for backup,

or request assistance. I'll respect the humanity of those who I encounter, both victim and suspect alike. I will treat life as sacrosanct and will only use deadly physical force as a last resort. I'll remember that I do not police an act or behavior but a flawed human being whose conduct can jeopardize their future and their family. I'll prevent crime when i can for absence of crime and disorders preferable to visit visible evidence of police action i'll remember my calling is an honorable one but never set me apart from society or the community i serve i've been granted authority and am enjoyed by duty yet i am a member of public and share the same obligation to comply with the laws I'm sworn to uphold. If I do not violate this oath, I will one day retire from public service,

having earned the enduring respect of my colleagues and community. So I can already tell you, I mean, looking forward to Arien's chapters and what Hotah does, that this oath, which his oath obviously, as he continues to say, serve, obey, protect, and I'm sure there are other things that entailed as we get some of the detail of his branding of him being physically mutilated to join this order. It's a little different, obviously, than what a police officer today might say as part of their own oath, but he's definitely break some of these things, right? Like, did Arius okart have to die yeah they definitely could have tried to de-escalate uh didn't do that did he

didn't wait aries okart though in aries okart's heart he's like i have to die he's he was so headass in that moment he's like i'm I'm going head first. And it's like, you just think maybe, like, you know when people put their hand out? Oh, I did this to you at Ice and FireCon where you put your hand out when someone's shorter than you and like, or maybe this was Elena. I did to someone. I just can't remember.

Everyone's so short, as we discussed earlier. There's a picture of it somewhere, but where you put your hand out, where the person like puts their head in your hand and they're trying to get to you, but like you're so tall and long and your long limbs stop them just by reaching your arm out i'm reaching my arm out but no one can see me um to like hold the head like he could have just done that for a while

at aries oakheart truly and it felt more like a point being made and that's what this feels like him taking him being commanded to take the sand snakes yes it is to stop the burning before it burns down the whole city because obviously people are incensed but also people are incensed for a reason and it's not just because of oberon which i would love for george to explore more of that right like that's the ticket is like maybe he could explore why else the people might be pissed about Doran because they haven't really had a real ruler for a while. Like Doran's been half-assing it, obviously, phoning it in because he's depressed.

And I get that personally, because I'm phoning it in because I'm depressed and disabled too. But it definitely feels like this is not something that would pass that Hippocratic police oath. You know, it doesn't feel right. Even the little ones, he says. Even the little ones? Exactly. He's like them and being told to kind of gather this force in secret.

And that Doran ascertains this idea of obedience first and foremost. So there's definitely something there that's a little more sinister and is pushing at those boundaries of those morals that Ario has been raised, well, not raised, that Ario thinks that he has. He hasn't had to think too deeply on them before. I'm sure he's had to a couple of times but yeah and so we end this chapter with that moral dilemma gather up the others i shall not sleep until i know that they are safe and under guard it will be done the captain hesitated when this is known in the streets, the common folk will howl.

All Doran will howl, said Doran Martell in a tired voice. I only pray Lord Tywin hears them in King's Landing so he might know what a loyal friend he has in Sunspear. Aha! Doran does have a plan well kind of tywin you know your shit why because he's dead so it's so silly to even like chat about a dornish master plan it's not amazing doran does have a plan it's split between two red and black and black and red baskets right now, obviously. And he does have a plan. But I would say it's still more of a plan than the Grand Northern Conspiracy.

Just putting that out there. Doran still has more of a plan than the Grand Northern Conspiracy. And that's the tea on that. It's a plan. It's just like a really, it's a really elaborate plan. the tea on that. It's a plan. It's just like a really, it's a really elaborate plan. Also, it's like, I think he's

afraid to enact on any of it, you know? Like, he's just waiting to see if the good stuff happens, and if that stuff doesn't happen, then maybe he's just like, maybe we just won't. I think Doran has a plan. He's just not a great manager, you know? He's not a good, he's not a great project manager.

Doesn't know, you know, this person's got good, he's not a great project manager, doesn't know, you know, this person's got the best skills for this thing, let's put this person there, this is how we move things forward. Not a strong suit, you know? Yeah, he could do a little better about that. I mean, like, use your assets, which to be fair, he is though. So I feel like, and especially the next chapter is going to have a bit more of this detail in it, and we'll go into it much more then. But I feel like by the end of these chapters, he has them in the right position, right? Like he has them going to do the right things. And I think he's going to be very upset because he sent them with one mission.

And as Littlefinger says to us in this book, sometimes pawns have minds of their own. Sometimes those minds decide to do some crazy things, right? So I think that's where we're going to see a lot of this go awry. Especially when- Also with Aria and with the whole like, fuck you, dad, I do what I want. Exactly.

And especially, you know, when Doran, seeing himself right now as a sort of like game chess master or whatever, and as you're saying about pawns having minds of their own, I mean like he's starting to try and emulate some moves that he's seen from other not the greatest people ever game

masters. He's trying to emulate maybe moves from Tywin and Ares and taking and using these children hostage yeah it doesn't feel right it doesn't feel like doran it feels like we've been introduced to this family and he's really uh i don't know like he seems like a sympathetic character from the very start right and by the end you realize doran still has some claws he's not uh he's not as soft as we think and he sat through dealing with those girls all day those young women coming to him being like uncle doran can we have war now and him being like no we have war at home yeah he's like here's your war

god damn it eat these damn peas and go read your alphabets or something let uncle doran figure it out yeah he should have maybe brought them into the chat you know he should have like maybe made a group chat with them and been like so what do you think about doing this at some point yeah he wasn't great at telling plans you know uh but i you know he was afraid, right? Because one loose word, but... Yep, when words are loosed, you can't call them back. That is for sure. Well, that's our first

of two Oreo episodes. We'll be back with another one next week, of course, and, you know, until then, you know, keep up with us. Let us know if you have any thoughts as well. You know, you can find us on social media at Girls Gone Canon, C-A-N-O-N, over on Twitter. Or maybe you have something that you'd like to tell us, send us. You can shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com.

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I won't spoil much of that because you'll want to hang on to that for later. As always, I have been one of your hosts, Chloe slash Tarlok. Just kidding. Oh my gosh. I've been another one of your hosts, Aliana slash Momo. Oh my God. Aww. We'll talk to you guys next week.

You would be Momo I don't know am I Appa cause I'm taller I think so I think you could be Appa yiff yiff Appa and I'm just running around who knows what's happening in my head that one episode. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you