Girls Gone Canon Cast - His Dark Materials: Episode 1 - Northern Lights/The Golden Compass Chapters 1-3

Episode Date: August 1, 2019

The girls set off on another journey that begins with a bottle of tokay, Dust, and Gobblers. Stay close to us on this new adventure if you don't want to disappear!   Covers Northern Lights (UK & Australia) / The Golden Compass (US) Chapters 1 - 3   1. The Decanter of Tokay 2. The Idea of North 3. Lyra's Jordan   --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

You're listening to Girls Gone Canon covering His Dark Materials. Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, His Dark Materials, Episode 1, Northern Lights, The Golden Compass, Chapters 1 through 3. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from our other podcast on A Song of Ice and Fire, or as LiesInArborGold.com or LiesInArbor on the internet And I'm Eliana, you might also know me from our other podcast and various other media about the A Song of Ice and Fire aka Game of Thrones series But here I am, over on Girls Gone Canon also known as GlassTableGirl on Reddit or Arithmetic on Twitter.

Wow, this is weird. It is new. This is to new fans and to old hello. We are a podcast that started as a literary analysis cast. We did start with A Song of Ice and Fire. We're doing a reread from character to character, point of view to point of view. and Fire. We're doing a reread from character to character, point of view to point of view. On that podcast, we post it under the same feed as you will see these episodes for His Dark Materials. But we wanted to branch out. Sometimes you need to run. You need the wind in your hair. So for those of you who are new, we release our A Song of Ice and Fire point of view episodes on Friday mornings, most Friday mornings, weekly. And our His Dark Material work is going to come out are new we release our a song of ice and fire point of view episodes on friday mornings most

friday mornings weekly and our his dark material work is going to come out most of the time the last wednesday of the month we're kind of playing it by ear this is kind of fun we're mixing it up it's new we're very open to suggestions uh we also are doing monthly patreon episodes about different content whether it's a song of ice and Fire or maybe even some His Dark Materials content in the future. I have some ideas. Eliana and I will talk offline about them, obviously, with our people. Yep. So, yeah, again, we're playing this by ear.

We want to make sure that what we create and put out is something that all of you want and enjoy. So let us know your thoughts. And to give you guys a little bit of background about how we're doing this, we are starting with part one. There are three main parts to the very first book, Northern Lights and the Golden Compass, depending on where you live slash bought your story. We're starting with three chapter episodes so far monthly for now, this could change, this could change. And there are going to be about three episodes in this part. Yes, I think we are hoping to have the first book done by the time the television show for

His Dark Materials comes out. But right now we actually have no idea when that's going to come out. It says fall 2019. That could literally be like November 20th, 2019. Yeah, absolutely. And we're milking that right now. Yeah. So again, we're playing it by ear. Things might change as we get more information about the show, the release dates. But because we are just starting out, we are keeping this episode a little simple.

We are doing the first three chapters of The Golden Compass slash Northern Lights, which are entitled The Decanter of Tokei, The Idea of North, and Lyra's Jordan. Eliana, you're sending us to Jordan College, aren't you? You know why? Why, Chloe? Because it's syllabus week oh wow but don't skip this week of classes be a better student than I was everyone

yeah you'll want to stay and if you stay there is an extra lecture at the end it's going to be followed by what I favorably and Eliana favorably have named it as a dust discussion. What that means is that we kind of wanted to model this a bit like how our friends over at Davos Fingers have read A Song of Ice and Fire. They finished and they generally do a setup where they do the chapter, they read the chapter, talk about the chapter, etc. as it happens. And they do an after dark Davos Fingers after dark spoiler session where they talk about what this means in the long scheme of things. And we know we have a lot of new

listeners. We know we have a lot of old listeners that are either reading for the first time like I am. I am reading for the first time. Eliana has read before. And we want to separate it a little bit just so that you can have a better experience if you so want to. Yes. And because it is syllabus week, and again, we have a mix of people who are reading the series for the first time and people who are rereading it, we're going to do a lot of setup during this episode. And of course, I mean, that's how any story is structured, right? The beginning of the books are a lot of setup during this episode. And of course, I mean, that's how any story is structured, right? The beginning of the books are a lot of that setup and exposition. Lots of world building. And of course, if you want to get a little more from that world building and

exposition, I personally have now read the entire book. So as we started these episodes and have started writing them, we kept in mind that I hadn't finished yet, but now I have finished. So the After Dark episode here, the discussion, will have me talking about only the first book. I have not read any of the other books. Eliana has. She knows everything. She's so great. And that's probably why she has great hair. So in the future, we will be covering in part two of the first book bullvangr and then part three spellbard all this information for those parts will be announced after we finish part one like we said it depends on the show announcement and if you guys are into

it if we think maybe it's a little crazy a little ambitious who knows eliana and i have done crazier so we have done crazier yes so the dust discussion is gonna we're gonna cover a range of different things there just hop around the timeline and again dust discussion get it because it's like dust and dust it is my favorite thing is important regarding knowledge anyway we'll get to that we'll get to that. We'll get to that later on, everyone. So another reason we've structured it in this way is because, again, this is a very different story than A Song of Ice and Fire, which we were able to give our own spin on to by doing that character reread and compiling different characters, but His Dark Materials is not structured that way, right? We're doing it more of in the chronological manner, partially because it's narrated through a third person omniscient style. Yeah, and in the first book so far, I feel like while that narrator is that

third person omniscient, we are following Lyra to build this world for the most part. So I'm really excited to follow that more. And we'll talk about it later on as well. But Philip Pullman has definitely said that he's a storyteller and not a writer. So his writing is a little bit different than what most people who have listened to us might be used to us covering. Anyway, and so let's get into it. Here's Northern Lightslash's Golden Compass. into it. Here's Northern Lights slash The Golden Compass.

We're going to start out with this excerpt from Paradise Lost, which is a huge influence on Philip Pullman as he writes his dark materials. Into this wild abyss, the

womb of nature and perhaps her grave, of neither sea nor shore nor air nor fire, but all these and their pregnant causes mixed, confusedly and which thus must ever fight unless the almighty maker them ordain. His dark materials to create more worlds into this wild abyss the wary fiend stood on the brink of hell and looked a while pondering his voyage john milton paradise lost book two and so we open up with chapter one the decanter of tokay lyra and her demon which has a note towards the beginning of my version or edition of this book that

says they are all pronounced like the word demon. And I don't know if it just sounds different, like daemon or daemon or something because of the accent of the author, but anyways, they're sneaking through a hall. What's great is if you

change that a little, they're sneaking through a hell. Demon's sneaking through a hell. I don't know. I was just thinking now that you mentioned it but that was off the cuff I love this chapter it serves as this introduction to these strong-willed characters that are so individualistic and so different in character we'll meet them very soon but Lyra is our lead heroine and she is headstrong and bold while Pan, her counterpart, is cautious and thoughtful, which we'll learn about soon. And so Lyra sneaks into the retiring room and from the imagery we learn that this room is very, very luxurious, as is most things at Jordan College.

And then Pantalamon, Lyra's demon, tries to goad Lyra into leaving. Uh, Pantalamon is just so cute. Right now, he's in the form of a dark brown moth, and that's how the text presents it to us. They say this is his form right now. I think something we're gonna start is an animal corner, a new segment

soon. It's gonna rival our fashion power hour we do in our A Song of Ice and Fire series, which might come back here too so stay tuned so pantalimon lyra's demon is a tiny little brown moth and moths are nocturnal they gravitate toward light and in a lot of texts they represent death but spiritually they also kind of represent childlike wonder in a lot of situations. I thought that was really interesting. I was doing some research.

I'm going to keep doing research on different animal symbolism because as we learn throughout this chapter, all of these little demons are attached to these people and they change in their, you know, configuration of what they are, what animal they represent. And I think it has meaning. I think Pullman has to have thought about it, honestly. The different kinds of animals, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, look at later on, we'll meet someone named Ratter. Yeah. And it's kind of fun that, like, as children, there's a lot of that flexibility, right? that like as children there's a lot of that flexibility right part of it is that playfulness and part of it is like pragmatism in some ways like it's pretty useful and uh for your demon to change shape which is kind of why i always like i remember the first time reading this i was like that sucks that your demon's not gonna change shape anymore it super sucks that it like takes on one shape when you're an adult but now that I'm an adult

now you're an adult yeah now that makes sense I would want to find my Patronus too everyone man ain't that deep now that you're an adult yeah blame me F

there's this notion from Aristotle of De Anima. I don't know if you're familiar with it. And it's the animating principle of life, the soul. And it kind of is this foundation of the idea of demon. Pan is Lyra's bonded counterpart. So there's this biopsychology that Aristotle wrote about in Dianima, or on the soul is the translation of that. And it centers on souls that are possessed by living things and what level of power different beings have. And in books two and three of Dianima,

we learn that plants can reproduce and consume nourishment. So they have a vegetative soul, even though they're just a plant. Yes, I knew you would like that. Just their little smiling faces. So lower animals have sense perception and motion. So they have a sensing and sensitive soul. And humans have intellect. They have a rational soul and a sensitive soul and a vegetative soul. They are all these things encompassed. Aristotle goes on and he says that the essence of a living thing is its soul. That a body without a soul or a soul without a body is unintelligible. And to take it from his work in physics, he summarizes the soul in most living things as,

if it acts, it is. We see a lot of this other folklore that comes through like witches' familiars, or even in something that might be considered an anti-Pullman, guardian angels. Yeah, I think that everything that you've said here regarding Aristotle is super spot on. And this detail of them being called De Anima, I would have to look it up, but I think that this is definitely something that Pullman has probably got in his pocket somewhere, because he... Pullman-ing?

Oh, wow. Indeed. Wow. I think we should say that all the time. No, I think we should say that all the time. That should be a thing. We're gonna. We're gonna. Everyone, maybe you haven't been here, but puns are what we live and breathe on yeah it sustains us so i do think this is something that he's got in his back pocket somewhere because he is a professor and he's very interested like in a lot of these different works and philosophy and theology so for him to be-versed in classical philosophy is not at all surprising. I think that's a great catch.

Well, buckle up, because we're going to go into some more really soon. Are you ready? Yeah. So first, Lyra comments on, again, how pimped out Jordan College's retiring room is. And she goes, they do themselves well, don't they, Pan? You know, one of my best friends went to college at this university in Michigan, and it wasn't

like a big-name university. It wasn't the main couple ones that you want to go to in Michigan, but it was a good university, and they had this cafeteria that was when me, little 19-year-old Chloe this cafeteria that was when me little 19 year old Chloe understood that was like oh this is college life this is what it's really like because I went to community college so I didn't get this luxurious Jordan experience but when I went to my friend's college

I did and she used her points in her unlimited food plan on me that day. They had like little omelet stations and they had like little like salad stations and burrito stations and they had all these people that prepare. It was nuts. I was like, is this real? This is really how they live? And if that's how they lived, you can imagine how these scholars are living and you get to read about it in this chapter. Yes, absolutely.

And I think that all this stuff about classism and stuff starts to take more shape as the story goes on, but in slightly different ways, but it's interesting. And some of the ways that they do it, and we're actually going to talk about it in this episode, absolutely like break my heart. Yeah, as we get closer to like chapter three, for example, that's going gonna introduce us to a lot of the rest of the world because as you know if you live in this wonderful beautiful earth that we all are listening to this podcast talking about this stuff on the rich are like a certain percentage of the earth the people that live those cushy lives. Yeah. Lots of systemic classes.

And there is a professor, Gary Boyd, who wrote an essay called Curiosity, Wonder, and Zest about some systemic philosophy. A starting place is what it was called. It was for a primer project. And he talks about how holism, which is from the Greek holos, is this theory that makes up the existence of holes a fundamental feature of the world it regards natural objects animate inanimate as holes not just assemblages of elements or parts so you know a piece of hair is a hole it's not carbon oxygen

hydrogen nitrogen and sulfur for example it is just a whole piece of hair. I just flexed that. So this looks upon nature consisting of discrete concrete bodies and things, not homogeneous continuum. So these bodies or things are not resolvable. They are one piece. You cannot separate them and the mechanical putting together of them will not produce them or account for their character or behavior. The parts are not real, but abstract analytical distinctions and don't adequately express what has made the thing as a whole. three different things. Each of us are able to experience or extend only what we know, and to the most that we can exist. You can't teach someone something that you don't know. You can't be something that you don't know how to be. It breaks down to three different factions. We can use mimetic actions as humans attempting to relate to achieve greatness, which a lot of scholars that we're about to meet do. But the way we're ingrained in our culture and how many years it's affected us is hard to make a ripple through that. You can

relate to another human being, I can tell you, I believe this thing. And you could say, I also believe this thing. But until it is more of a swarm of people believing that thing, you can't really get motion moving. You can have a small bubble of trying something new, like a pocket of trying a new system or class out and seeing its rising strategy behind it. So, you know, that idea of the world is big, a little people turn it around. And then the other way that humans systemically move and classify are a top down strategy that looks at the overall universe and says this is good good for all of us, and it applies it as law. So there's three major systemic struggles that society has seen and society operates under, and it all breaks down to different systems that make the world turn. Not necessarily physically make it turn, but make every day on the ground what you and me know work.

And as a story that's very much inspired by those first two books of paradise lost and some of the other ones i think that all the things that you're saying very much fit into this idea of different classes or the separation of different groups of people so i guess it's not technically about people it's kind of about people you know you know what i'm saying rebel angels demons in angel angels god right and and archangels yeah jesus yeah and that and that's very much something that's explored like right from the get-go in paradise lost of like damn all right so we were so we were exiled, guys. And what it would take to change the system. And the larger overarching story of His Dark Materials does explore that. Spoilers, I'm not even there yet.

No, I don't really think it is. I mean, it's just an overarching theme that I haven't gotten to really yet. But before Lyra and Pan can leave the room, they hear the sound of voices, and that forces them to hide. It's the master of Jordan College, together with his raven demon.

They are expecting a guest. It's Lord Asriel. There's also a butler here, whose demon is a dog. And then we this like little aside that tells us like almost all servants demons and the butler is then to bring lord asriel here along with some of the 1898 tokay i could be totally pronouncing this like fancy ass wine i'm sorry i'm like really unsophisticated everyone no i think it's correct i think you're doing great really i mean i would

just drink it instead of pronounce it let's be real and then try to pronounce it like what while drunk i'd probably do it right let's let's just go with that um hey in 1898 called it's embarrassed these systemic classes and treating servants like animals still exist and also servants 1898 also is like hey 2000s you should still not have them too um lots of world building here because this at least tells us a time frame in the story right so 1898 for us that was pretty good chunk of time ago not crazy amount of time but pretty good chunk but for in story it kind of builds for us like hey this is a vintage and it's special to these people in current time and I won't spoil anything that comes but most people think it takes place around 1995 some of the future books kind of paint that for us and we will talk about that later in our discussion so yeah and i mean in going more into that wine it's very special and very specific

as a fun detail it's also lord asriel's favorite wine again might get all this wrong it's it's a wine that's also known as a tokaji and the toke wine is like a white wine that actually appears in a lot of literature it's produced in hungary in the tokaj wine is like a white wine that actually appears in a lot of literature. It's produced in Hungary in the Tokaj wine region. So it's kind of fun that this is like a real thing, right? Like not just made up for this part of the story. And there are reasons why that's the case. And in order for something to be considered a Tokaj, it has to be produced by certain standards in order to earn that name. There's a couple, of course, other foods that are like that, like champagne, right? It has to...

You can't just call it champagne. Yeah, otherwise it's just sparkling wine unless it's produced in a certain region of France. But certain kinds of toque are actually very famous for being beloved by real world royalty, which kind of shows us why Lord Asriel would desire it, but it also is tying then all of these associations, again, like about class and what it means to be sophisticated and nobility with Lord Asriel. Yes.

So Asriel leaves the lamp for them. Lyra watches the butler leave, and the master puts on his gown. She's excited for the visitor's arrival that they speak of, Lord Asriel, her uncle. The visitor mentioned by the master, Lord Asriel, was her uncle, a man whom she admired and feared greatly. He was said to be involved in high politics, in secret exploration, in distant warfare, and she never knew when he was going to appear. He was fierce. If he caught her in here, she'd be severely punished, but she could put up with that. I think that paragraph is so interesting and we are going to come back to it so soon, but first I want to talk about a little etymology. Asriel is a name that exists in tons of different content, like religion,

for example. There's the archangel Azrael, the angel of destruction, and in Islam he's associated with Malak Al-Mu't, the angel of death, which of course Malak Al-Mu't was responsible for taking the souls of the deceased away from the body. The Zohar, which is a Jewish mystical tradition of Kabbalah, paints him more positively as someone who receives prayers of the faithful when they come to heaven and commands legions of heavenly angels. But again, Philip Pullman is saying something here that why would heaven need angels as an army? that why would heaven need angels as an army? You know, you might be onto something,

but we're not going to talk about that for a very long time. This is bullshit. The master's next move stops Lyra in her tracks, and she watches him take a piece of folded paper out, and then he pours a powder from it into the decanter of toke, and then he throws the paper in the fire. It's fascinating to me that he's holding this powder in a paper. And then he stirs the drink until the powder dissolves and yes of course poison, yes exciting,

but what I'm most disturbed by is that he stirs the decanter and stuff with a pencil. Like obviously we're not worried about sanitation or hygiene if we're poisoning people but like the fact that he's using a pencil as a stirrer just really stresses me out and i don't know why like is it number one or number two lead what existed in 95 i was like three i don't know just stresses me the fuck out i also the language there he throws the paper in the fire we might come back to someone else throwing something in the fire later and i just thought it was an interesting three chapter appearance i'm looking for patterns it's my first couple read-throughs here and i'm just looking for patterns that i want to know everything and I can't. You could.

His daemon squawks at him. Korn. And he responds in an undertone Lyra can't hear before they depart. Pantalamon tells Lyra to leave before the steward comes, but a bell begins to ring, which signals the steward's coming. They missed their chance. She's been banking on the time between spying on the master

and the steward's bell to escape, but the powder in the paper actually distracted Lyra, and it caused her to hesitate. Whenever I read this, I just feel this sad sense of hurt, guilt. She was confused. She got distracted. She was worried about her uncle uncle yeah uncle but

i mean like anyone would just be like what the hell just happened here like it's just shocking to see someone that you trusted to take care of you to potentially poison someone else that you hold in high regard also have you ever felt such felt such a flip of emotions for a character too, as you go through this for that said character? As we get to the third chapter, I feel like we're going to feel completely different about some of these characters than we do right now. For sure. For sure. For a lot of characters. Yeah. Lyra chooses to hide in the wardrobe where she's very anxious. She closes the door and she thinks if the steward catches her he'll beat her as he has before so some background Pullman has actually

been an author of children's fiction before he got to the His Dark Materials series he was a writer and as well as taught English to middle school students and I think in university while doing his writing. And a lot of this story is obviously influenced by a lot of the literature and ideas that Pullman's interested in. And of course, part of it is inspired by his upbringing or I mean, even maybe a revolt against it if you look at it that way, since his grandfather was an Anglican rector. and this scene is the first one that actually came to his mind when he began writing this series without all the rest of the themes and adventure that eventually follows in an interview from like I don't know

2003 he says I began with the idea of a little girl hiding somewhere she shouldn't be overhearing something she shouldn't hear I didn't know then who she was where she was or what she overheard I'm soft. That's nice. The grumpy one is soft for the sunshine one. That tweet called me out. No, that's literally. It's just very nice. It's great to see someone connect with their art.

And it's great, especially from the interviews I've listened to with Philip Pullman. I've been listening to a lot of interviews. I'm doing a panel at DragonCon with a couple people about his dark materials. Don't make fun of me, but I totally was like his mortal materials. His dark instruments. I'm about to say A Song of Ice and Fire every two seconds

and then I stop and I'm like H sound, H sound. If we just get the H out, then I can do this. It's very weird. I feel like I'm cheating on them. Do i feel like i'm cheating on them do you feel like you're cheating on them no um i do i feel dirty i just i'm like it's just weird it's just trying like trying to take a new route i've been listening to a lot of interviews in preparation for a panel i'm doing at dragon con about the anti-narnia his dark materials you know anti-christianity stuff and it, you know, anti-Christianity stuff.

And it's interesting hearing what he says about it. He has said in previous interviews that when people say, you know, what's with your religion status, what do you think? He's agnostic for the most part, but he's also kind of atheist. And he says that, you know, I've never seen anything that proves it. When I see something that proves it, I'll believe. That idea of faith comes up a lot throughout these, but I think also he's written

a lot about it, and Milton apparently, from my understanding, was also quite an atheist, so. Yes. Truly following in the footsteps of his heroes. I love that, the influences you see these writers have

panalimon is annoyed that now they must hide in here they banter about whether or not it's poison they saw the master poor and pan says it's none of our business lyra but he realizes that the whole time lyra had wanted to watch she's too prideful to share her thoughts with Pan as much as she wants to, which makes me think that while Lyra is, of course, our bold, brave heroine who wants good things to be done, I think there's that little bit of shame, that little bit of darkness that when you're growing up, you have. It's kind of fun to have people's souls basically externalized, right,

through his dark materials in the way that it's portrayed it's as you said but also it kind of gives you insight into that nature it's a little childish but you definitely see adults do it too she's too prideful to share her thoughts with pan that she wanted to do this and you can see it in real people sometimes people want to do something but they're too prideful to admit it to themselves so it's fun to see what that looks like personified and she's not the only person we're going to learn keeps that trait she feels anxiety for lord asriel as she watches this scene break down both asriel and the master of jordan college are members of many prestigious

societies like the cabinet council and the prime minister's special advisory body titles titles titles lyra recalls rumors about tartars invading toward the north and wonders if there will be a war a butler comes in to trim the wick of the naphtha lamps in the retiring room, even though there are rooms with enbaric light. So there's a lot of really fun worldbuilding in His Dark Materials. The Tartars come from an area in Lyra's world called Tartary, which is near what would our world be considered areas of Siberia and close to what in our world be considered like areas of siberia and like close to what in our world was the soviet union and they're heading north we'll talk about naphthila lamps and embark light in the discussion section a little but a shout out to shiloh car, author of Medievalism in A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones, which I highly, highly, highly recommend if you are a fan of that series,

because she helped me look up the term in Beric in the Oxford English Dictionary. Fun fact, it's not there. Pullman, you're a liar. I'm just kidding. Fun stuff. We'll get to this eventually. The butler pockets some smoking leaf, which leads to a quote that Eliana is insisting we read aloud. It's a great quote.

It's hilarious. All right. It's full of multiple meanings, if you're me. Lay it on us. All right. The butler looked uncomfortable. Guests entered the retiring room at the master's invitation only and Lord Asriel knew that but the butler also saw Lord Asriel looking pointedly at the

bulge in his pocket and decided not to protest. I refuse to believe that Pullman wrote that and did not know what he was nudging towards. Stop nudging it. Stop nudging it. Also, I'd say if you looked at it as a whole

and not just the bolded quote it gets kinkier that's true oh I can see because of the different doors yep not protesting I mean it's fascinating fascinating quote

everyone thanks for being on this new journey with us so lord asriel and his daemon uh snow leopard prepare for a projected presentation and of course to break down in the animal corner snow leopard symbolism for you snow leopards like to hunt in darkness and they tend to see things that other people cannot. They're associated with perception. Other than wanting to breed, the snow leopard lives a life of solitude. Their markings protect them in their environment. They camouflage before they reveal themselves to prey. Also, it can be equivalated with the hermit in tarot, which of course shows us introspection interesting i like how you say of course like we know that but no you are here giving us knowledge i am the professor

of the tarot of the snow leopard apparently you are one of the scholars i'm a luminary oh i am a scholar of jordan exactly that's what i'm saying. Capital S Scholar. Yeah, capital D Dust. Indeed. Indeed. Maybe you have a butler like Ren who returns once more to the retiring room. Then Asriel notices the tokay on the table. Asriel also is like, uh, I would like

a screen also and a projecting lantern and Ren's like, uh, this is ridiculous. He's like, excuse me, I'm very fucking rich very fucking high up do what i want even though you just brought me coffee bring me all these other things and then ren goes and has to do it and lord asriel is over here now he's down in coffee like he's fucking detective pikachu and it's just just because it's helpful if you know what he looks like, right?

Lord Asriel was a tall man with powerful shoulders, a fierce dark face, and eyes that seemed to flash and glitter with savage laughter. It was a face to be dominated by, or to fight. Never a face to patronize or pity. All his movements were large and perfectly balanced, like those of a wild animal, and when he appeared in a room like this this he seemed a wild animal held in a cage too small for it there's so much language in this chapter that i did not get the very first time through wow he seemed a wild animal held in a cage too small for it i think there's something in that or something stuck in that but I also could add as someone who is a luminary in this community of his dark materials and wants to enrich

your experience while you read this story Lord Asriel is what we would call a zaddy and a zaddy for all of you since we apparently like had to explain this to someone recently yeah our friend yes we're looking at you Alicia Alicia. I have a surprise.

She didn't know what zaddy meant. I asked too. I was too. Eliana, what is a zaddy for our listeners? Yeah, so in general, a zaddy is someone who is I guess very, very good-looking, right? Often older. Very, a man

who is very good-looking, but my understanding is the development of it being the term zaddy as opposed to daddy. Comes from during the act of intercourse in which one would call out the term daddy. But be so wrapped in pleasure that the words become slurred into zaddy. That is my understanding. So transitioning from that...

This is a children's book! I was gonna say that and I'm really glad you did, but we're still releasing them as explicit, so... So back to the closet where Lyra is hidden. she watches asriel go for the tokay and without thinking she blurts out and cries no she tumbles out of the wardrobe she throws the glass on the ground and lord asriel twists her wrist cruelly and hard and she reveals the wine was poisoned. But then the porter-shooter comes.

Yeah, somehow Lord Asriel twists everything in this situation to make it seem like the porter was the one who knocked the entire decanter of tokay off the table and the glass, and then he just totally shits on the porter and gets mad at him and pretends to be on his side, like, I'm not going to get you into any more trouble if you just go and take care of this. Which kind of echoes how he treated the butler earlier. to be on his side, like, ugh, I'm not gonna get you into any more trouble if you just go and take care of this. Which kind of echoes how he treated the butler earlier.

And then in comes Thorold, Asriel's manservant, who comes in and helps get everything set up so that Lyra can see the presentation. And then everything's set up, and the gathering begins. And that's the first chapter.

We got through one. Let's move on. We're going to jump right into the idea of North, where Lyra watches a hidden meeting. Yes, the Oxford scholars are now in the room meeting. Lyra continues to stay hidden inside of the closet. And she watches the master's eyes flick toward where the toke had been, and he comes toward Asriel to greet him. Master, said Lord Asriel, I came too late to disturb your dinner,

so I made myself at home in here. Hello, sub-rector. Glad to see you looking so well. Excuse my rough appearance. I've only just landed. Yes, master, the tokeke is gone i think you're standing in it the porter knocked it off the table but it was my fault hello chaplain i read your latest paper with great interest damn such charisma right yeah uh asriel's charisma in this moment

it's saving face because literally the last five minutes were like lyra tumbling out of the closet knocking the wine down and then like the manservant appearing and like just a huge rush so he's saving face but i feel like this is hinting to us that we should be looking at his other factions of his personality that he is very good at manipulating, very good at smooth talking. And Lyra, of course, as we've read, sees him as ferocious but calmable. Like she said in the last chapter that he was involved in high politics, secret exploration, and distant warfare. He was fierce. While Lyra thinks that, you know, she can quell that storm and the punishment wouldn't be that bad, he kind of sounds like a man you wouldn't want to cross or trifle with, right? cross him and a lot of people respect him but because you know he's so high up and good at all these things he turns out he's like a little divisive for people lyra watches the master's

demon that raven and it's restless on his shoulder asriel is being respected that like all right guys it's all right i know this is in my, but it's obvious where the power actually lies based on all of those things that Chloe just said. Asriel's commanding the room. He sets up the presentation and all the lords are very intrigued and focused on the wooden case and lantern. They're like, ooh, I've never seen a projection before. They've seen projections before.

We get this introduction to all the scholars. She knew the scholars well. The librarian, the subrector, the inquirer, and the rest. They were men who had been around her all her life. Taught her, chastised her, consoled her, given her little presents, chased her away from the fruit trees in the garden. They were all she had for a family. They might even have felt like a family if she knew what a family was, though if she did, she'd

have been more likely to feel about the college servants. The scholars had more important things to do than attend the affections of a half-wild, half-civilized girl left among them by chance. I love that. I love hearing about this like half-world she gets to live in and half-civilized girl left among them by chance. I love that. I love hearing about this, like, half-world she gets to live in and half-world that she also gets to live in. We'll get to that in the next chapter. Yeah, it seems that she's just kind of been living a pretty great, cushy life here so far. Truly having a great childhood. Innocent and in her own little, you know, garden.

It's fun that garden is capitalized and we'll come back to this later but for now the master is lighting a chafing dish of butter and throw some poppy seeds in it to help clear the mind and stimulate the senses and tongue he's literally lighting up opium you guys yeah he's incensing that shit. Or as Eliana likes to pronounce it, incesting that shit. But yes, they're sitting in an opium den right now. And it's super ritualistic. The way he cuts open that poppy seed and the guy lights the chafing dish. These guys are just sitting around waxing poetic about how they're better than everyone.

Getting high as fuck from incense that's just opium smoke yeah this was like all the vogue during that time i know that what not the exact same time region we'll talk about time timelines a little i picasso was really into opium but he also like quit because he's like i don't know it felt good and i had a lot of ideas but i actually never ended up doing any of those ideas because I was on drugs. And regarding incensing and incesting, in my defense,

in the other series we discuss, there's a lot of both. There's a lot more incest than incense. Well, right now there's more incense than incest so I want you to get it together. Okay, alright, alright. Lyra, she's using the noise from the frying poppies to move around

and get comfortable on a fur coat then she begins to feel drowsy because A, the coat's super comfortable and B, she's in, again, a fucking opium den and Chan's like that was dumb you should have chosen something less comfortable because now you're going to fall asleep

and she's like, well then fucking wake me up yeah, she's like, well, then fucking wake me up. Yeah, she's super bored by this political discussion that's going on. And they're not talking about like the Tardars, which would excite her. But I kind of wonder if maybe this could be something important that she probably if she had listened to, she might have learned from. Like, I don't know, some political information. They start talking about politics and politics as you and i know from our discussions are where money goes basically and that's an

important part of any adventure finding out what money takes things where so to be a kid she's not thinking about that it must be nice it's hard it's so hard to be into it when you're 12. yeah and pullman encapsulates that. He's like, kids don't care about that. They don't care about that news. They want to go make clay bricks to throw at each other in the street out of mud. And the financials don't matter to them. This is probably a good talk she's missing out on, though.

As an adult, I'm like, Lyra, could you quiet down? But eventually it is the politics that bring her back awake. And as readers, we should be reading then between the lines, because now we are adults. Because I'm sure I missed all of this when I was 13 and read this too. Yeah, I thought this was interesting, that in the master's speech to all of the scholars, he welcomes Lord Asriel and he says,

I speak for all of us when I bid Lord Asriel welcome. He calls his visits rare but immensely valuable and he says he understands Asriel has something of particular interest to show us. He says it's a high political tension time, as they're all aware, and that a train is waiting to carry Asriel to London when they finish, so they have to use their time wisely. And then he asks Asriel if he'd like to begin after telling them that questions have to be kept short. While his speech doesn't sound threatening to the ear, it's certainly not praising Asriel heavily, and it's basically saying as real as intel is super valuable we have very little time to learn this intel ask good questions don't be stupid he has to leave soon this is our only

chance to get this information yeah i think it's interesting that you call it out it's it's both that of like this is our only chance but he's also trying to make it seem like i mean do you guys really want to listen to this guy, Lord Asriel? Because he's trying to make it seem like Lord Asriel thinks he's too important for us, and trying to play the politics in that way. Like, he doesn't this guy be that he wouldn't have time for Jordan College? Then, though, Asriel does rearrange the room without notice. He asks the master to switch seats with the subrector, whose eyesight is horrible. And now the master sits close to the wardrobe that Lyra is hidden in. Lyra hears him murmur to the librarian while he sits in the armchair. The devil! He knew about the wine, I'm sure of it He's going to ask for funds if he forces a vote

If he does that, we must just argue against with all of the eloquence we have And the lantern now is glowing too bright And Asriel asks for it to be turned down because this is how slideshows work. And interestingly enough, he's trying to show Lyra and us. He's trying to groom, teach, and test her and show her the information

without telling her what it means. As well as the dual hope that like, alright, we're gonna talk to Lyra after this and she's gonna to tell me anything that she heard. Multi-purpose. So Asriel basically tells them he had gone north to King of Lapland on a diplomatic mission, but his goal was to discover what happened to the Grunman expedition. The Grunman expedition was a team that was going to ice.

It spoke of a phenomenon happening in the north that intrigued Asriel. But he found something quite else. Asriel slides a frame into the projector and a grayscale photo under a full moon of a wooden hut with snow and philosophical instruments appears on the screen. Aerials, wires, and porcelain insulators. You know, steampunk is obviously over, but this could be a big comeback in pop culture this autumn. I'm just saying, when this show comes out, steampunk could be cool again. It could.

I'm curious because I've heard the directors or producers or something say, especially seeing the trailers, that they might modernize it a little, but it's not super modern, so I'm still not sure sure where they're gonna hit it and i mean yeah a lot of the costuming does feel a little more oh i was gonna say steampunkish i don't know i'm not sure where they're gonna land on all that we'll find out yeah and this is actually something really interesting coming up i'm not a photography major i don't know about photography. I did not try to Google my way into it tonight. I'm going to be honest with you. I just am letting it be. But of all the things that Pullman keeps in his novels, he keeps some science behind photography.

he, Asriel, has a bunch of photographs and he explains how he took this photogram is what he's calling it here and says that it uses a standard silver nitrate emulsion and then he shows them a different slide that is taken using a different

emulsion. The photo is dark and it's obviously the same place as the first photo but all the instruments in it are hidden by darkness, and the man has now glowing particles that are coming into his hand. The chaplain asks, wait, is that light from the hand going down, or is it going up? And Asriel explains it's coming down, but that's not light that you're seeing, it's dust. Controversial. but that's not light that you're seeing it's dust controversial something in the way he said it made lyra imagine dust with a capital letter as if this wasn't ordinary dust well it's true because

ordinary dust does not glow in certain emulsions the scholars all then begin to speak very excitedly after a moment of silence, and then they raise their voices to object, discuss, and argue, but the chaplain silences them, asking all of them then to listen to Asriel. Asriel explains, it's dust but registered as light on the plate because particles of dust affect the process,

like photons affect silver nitrate in photography he redirects them toward the visible man figure and the blurred smaller shape next to him the inquirer thinks it's his demon but asriel says no it's a child the demon is coiled at the neck like a snake yes and someone then asks a severed child, but stops himself and the room suddenly gets all stiff because you can tell that he said a very wrong thing. No, no. Bad word. Because everyone's quiet, right? And Asriel's like, reassuring them, no, it's an entire child, which, given the nature of dust,

is exactly the point of what I'm trying to show you in this photo. Graham. Instagram. Chaplin is the first, then, to break the silence, letting out his breath and mentioning those streams of dust in the photo. Asriel responds, they come from the sky and bathe him in light. He says he'll leave them the photo and then shows them another. A photo at night, but with no moonlight this time. Tents are prominent and boxes and a sledge next to them.

But the sky was the real point of focus. Streams and veils of light hung like curtains, looped and festooned on invisible hooks hundreds of miles high or blowing out sideways in the stream of some unimaginable wind yes i rather like that i think it's beautiful i uh you're not gonna hear a ton of prose in these books right you get an author like george rr martin who loves to write, who writes for the craft, for the flowery effect, for the fact that words are beautiful when they're placed next to each other and he lets his words grow and the flowers in his garden just go where they

want. But Pullman knows where he's going. He doesn't write with that excessive flowery prose. He, like I said earlier, is a storyteller, not a writer. And he has a story to get done with. Not, no shade at George R.R. Martin, he's a great author, but Pullman knows what his strengths were, and he went for them. Yeah, and even if he doesn't feel that he's really digging into the prose, I think he does it quite well, and it comes through, And a lot of that has to do with like the things, the influences that he loves.

It comes through in his work. There's also, I don't know if this is a thing he's doing intentionally or not. Sometimes I find like the language might use a more difficult word or a different word than I would expect them to use. And part of me wonders if that's because it is a children's book and you'll see this sometimes in children's books where they'll introduce different kinds of vocabulary less because it necessarily is the best word but

sometimes because they're using it as a vehicle to teach children and introduce them to more words within the language so that's true that is something to keep sight of in this I don't know where the line is for him it's interesting yeah either way it's a beautiful passage where you could see that light

of the aurora in your own mind because it is a photo of the aurora and the shaky old percenter with a c asks if that is what they call the Northern Lights. Ah, he said the thing! It's the book! It's the name! In some places in this world, that's the book. Not here. Asriel says

actually it has many names. Sometimes it's the Golden Compass Knot. It's made of storms and particles and solar rays that are invisible but radiate in the atmosphere. And he's showing them a black and white version of this and wishes that he actually had time to show them a tinted version that

someone would have had to, like, paint colors into. Like, I don't know, fucking Photoshop. That's what people used to do back in the day, I guess. Then he changes out the slides to show a city and the master and librarian speak again undercover. If he forces a vote,

we could try to invoke the residence clause. He hasn't been resident in the college for 30 weeks out of the last 52. He's already got the chaplain on his side. The dean mocks Asriel about this slide of the city, thinking he's about to say it's a city in

another world and asriel ignores the haters as many of the other scholars are suddenly excited about because this is proof their tinfoil theory was real so i completely understand the chaplain asks about the status of grumman and his expedition, but Asriel informs him of his death. And everyone's like, no, what? And they're all anxious. They're like, what happened? No way. And he tells them the rumor that maybe there was an accident or he'd never be found.

But then I found him and he reveals his head. He has his head. He found him on ice off of Svalbard. Gross. Gross. Yes. And interestingly, Lyra actually can't see this head or this entire display very well, and she's actually pretty bummed.

She's pretty funny like that. She's- The men start to talk about how it looks like a routine scalping, and they start to then look at this skull more scientifically. Lyra finally gets all this tartar sauce drama that she wanted, and they discuss something called trepanning. They say that there's a hole in the top of the head. in this world was apparently banned in New Denmark, and had

originally moved to the Skrælings after Siberian Aboriginals and the Tungusk. What a name. Yeah. Pan is fluttering about her as his moth self, visibly stressed, and

Lyra shushes him so she can listen. The scholars realize one of their own kind was basically taken by the Tartars and sculpt. Dean tries to pin this on the fact he was found near Svalbard. Are we to understand that the Panzerborn have had anything to do with this, someone asks. I love that word, Panzerbjorn, Panzerbjorn. I love it. I love it.

The Palmyrean professor says they must not know Eofor Rakinson and says it wouldn't surprise him if they took to this scalping style. Someone's like, who is Eoric Rakinson? And the professor says he's the king of Svalbard, duh, who tricked his way to the throne. Also, he's a bear. He's a bear. A bear. A bear. A bear.

And the dean and his cronies then make fun of the Palmarian professor because they're like, this is fucking ridiculous. Bear kings. Like, what's that? No one gives a shit about bear kings. And then the professor tells them that the bear could be flattered into listening and behaving, that all he actually wants is a demon.

Side note, so the last name of this professor is Trelawney, and it makes me think, I wonder if J.K. Polman did that? There are a bunch of other Trelawneys in literature. You have the Music of Time series by Anthony Powell, if you've read that, with Dr. Tre trulani who was an occultist and you also have dr trulani from the from viscante de mezzato by etalo calvino uh it's a eccentric english naturalist and sometimes surgeon so i don't know could be something could be nothing but it's interesting that there are a handful of different UK characters with the name Trelawney that happen to be a little weird. Yeah, I was wondering if it's just like one of those British names that people use that are common, but maybe it's a name that is associated with something like that.

Also, it reminds me of, you know, you can actually make it like a phrase like, oh, that's a load of Trelawney. We could start doing that. Yeah, that is a load of Trelawney, because all the scholars are laughing at him. Not with him, at him. And Lyra is kind of starting to snooze out of boredom. It's warm, and the opium's getting to her, and she has Pan curled up against her. He has changed his shape, his form form and he is now an air mine yes cute and small i want one air mine yeah just curled up like on your neck right here you know

just real warm and cute and just like oh you're so cute and there's actually a good amount of symbolism in this pet corner in this uh demon corner because air mines especially ones that are pure white were always said even in history to embody moral purity and if we take a look at panel imon's character it really fits uh the air mine with its beautiful white coat would rather die before it soils its fur and in lore hunters that would seek the air mine they would smear the lair where the air mine would live with mud and then begin their hunt the air mine on the trail will be tired and exhausted from the hunt and when it went to go to its home to hide it would discover the mud and then be caught by the hunters because it would refuse to go through the mud the air mine became

associated with phrases like death before defilement and death rather than dishonor. Man. That's kind of, like, really sad, but also fascinating. It's too dirty. Can't go in. Yep. I would never go home if that were, if I were an Eremine.

Standards, bitch. Standards. They're actually talking, though, about funding about funding so the scholars are talking about funding while lyra is falling asleep which to me it's like lyra probably important to hear who's funding one but kids don't care about money because they have none so i get it i used to not care either the good old days but lyra then instead awakens to her uncle shaking her because she fell asleep. And then he's like, all right, you got to be quiet. There are servants afoot.

And you just need to go to your bedroom and be quiet about everything. She's like, so did they fund you? And he tells her that, yes, they did. And then she's like, so what's dust? While you're here. like so what's dust while you're here yeah what's dust and he's not budging too she like protests that he showed her everything else and now he won't tell her about dust and she asks to see the head that he found and he tells her stop being gross tell me about the master who tried to poison me. She reports to him about his face at the wine, and he seems content enough.

Asriel tells her, go to bed now, do as you're told. Yes. And then the conversation moves to how Asriel is heading north. And Lyra, of course, being adventurous like she is, asks to come along, but he doesn't allow her. Though it's interesting that he does actually very seriously consider it for a second. He apparently looks at her differently when she asks to head north. But then he decides, no, your place is here at Oxford.

And then she tries to beg him. She's like, I want to see the bears and the lights and the dust. And he's like, no, forget all that. and if you're nice I'm gonna bring you back a tusk with carvings and it's like that's pretty lame compared to hanging out with bears

but whatever hey be careful what you wish for girl he tells her to stop arguing or he'll be angry and his demon a leopard as we talked about growls frightening lyra it reminds her that it is a dangerous creature she reluctantly heads off to bed and

the camera pans to the master and the librarian who are talking you know i'm not really sure if it's given in these first few pages i don't think it is but for what it's worth the master's name is dr carne which i think is really an interesting name for someone whose demon is a raven, known to eat, of course, carrion and meat. And Carnet means meat in many different languages. So the master and the librarian are consoling one another and they discuss about how did Asriel know about the wine? And the librarian, whose name is Charles, feels actually relieved that it didn't happen, that they didn't really go through poisoning him. And the master says to him, I'm only sorry I burdened you with the knowledge of it. And I kind of really find this line fascinating in a story that revolves so heavily around truth and deceit, but of course, like also

knowledge, because knowledge is that tree, it's that forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. And we see it used in so many different ways throughout the story, and the lengths that people will go to acquire knowledge. But at the same time, there's definitely an aspect of the plot where you have some characters pulling towards ignorance, have some characters pulling towards ignorance or trying to force ignorance on others conflating ignorance with innocence and that kind of comes forth in this conversation especially because the librarian says that instead i actually wish you had told me more i would have felt more settled about what we were doing if you had given me more information which is more about like how why he could understand why they were doing this terrible thing,

which, again, links that idea of knowledge and evil, or sin, together. The Master explains that the Alethiometer has warned him of appalling consequences if Lord

Asriel pursues this research, and that Lyra will end up pulled in no matter what i want to break that apart that ancient greek uh as far as vernacular goes aletheia meant truth and meter means measure so take that as you will it's a very literal interesting kind of word play with the golden compass with the alethiometer yeah apparently i think i don't know pullman and some people don't like it as the golden compass they say that's not what it is but i think that there is a way that you can interpret the alethiometer as a golden compass it makes sense to me oh that's bullshit like in terms of like pointing you and i't know, we'll talk about it

later, obviously. Yeah, I think especially as far as morality goes, and the story plays such big roles with morality as we see Lyra struggle with what the right thing is, I think not only is the story the golden compass, but the alethiometer is obviously the thing she looks to

for guidance. Well, it was like the working title for publishers. And then he decided eventually that he was going to title it Northern Lights. So that's the title that is released right in the UK. And the other publishers were like, I don't know, I'm pretty fucking lazy. We're just going to do this. But I don't think it doesn't work. I know that's like a double negative.

I think it works. I understand that Northern Lights. I think it doesn't work. I know that's like a double negative. I think it works. I understand that Northern Lights. I think it absolutely works. And I think it's just silly because it's like you already thought about it being named that once. Even if it was the working title, you thought about it and almost subscribed to it. Just let it be. I don't know if he thought of it or if it was like the publisher's idea. Because sometimes, you know, they just come up with titles or not.

I'll have to double check on that. But I just like think northern lights absolutely definitely worked especially as we're gonna see in the story we literally were just introduced to northern lights they literally just said the thing but yeah anyway throughout the conversation we learned that there are a couple of other factions that are at play uh there are northern lights and golden compass no i'm joking. They are the Consistorial Court of Discipline and the Ablation Board. And Lord Asriel actually has no affiliation with either of these

organizations, and turns out, despite previous thoughts, neither organization answers to the other. And just keep this in your pocket for later, this definition. Because it's going to be a really interesting name when we get to it regarding the oblation board. An oblation is the act of making a religious

offering. When it's capitalized, it's the act of offering the Eucharistic elements to God and the Eucharistic elements, body and blood of Christ, commemorating the Last Supper. And something, another definition of it is something that's offered in worship or devotion, a holy gift offered usually at an altar or shrine. So keep that in your pocket for now.

And honestly, I do want to make sure that we say, not only is it the ablation board, but it's the general ablation board. And you might not think that's important but that g adds everything because other ways that we could say this throughout the rest of our podcasting is gob did you mean job job bluth god bless america god bless america did you know people don't like Gabi anyways?

I've read this in our friend group. Continue. I feel betrayed. There's a lot of betrayal in this story. But back to the world building. Pope John Calvin moved the seat of the papacy to Geneva, where now lies the Consistorial Court of Discipline. The church is an enormous political power in this world, and there are

no more popes anymore. Now we just have, as the story says, courts, colleges, and councils collectively known as the Magisterium. Many of them- Go ahead. Many of them compete with the others, and the Consistorial

Court of Discipline as well. That's the most active and feared organization and it's just like you were saying eliana knowledge is power in this series if the last chapter's meeting was anything to observe that's why asriel has so much power because he has so much knowledge that dictates what this board of men do yes and then in this chapter that city in the sky and this whole barnard stokes theorem gets a bit more explanation the holy church teaches that there are two worlds the world of everything we can see and hear and touch and another world the spiritual world of heaven and hell barnard and stokes were two how I put it, renegade theologians who

postulated the existence of numerous other worlds like this one, never heaven nor hell, but material and sinful. They are there, close by, but invisible and unreachable. The Holy Church naturally disapproved of this abominable heresy, and Barnard and Stokes were silenced. But unfortunately for Yes, I thought this was some great further explanation on what's going on here and setting stuff up within this story. I like the use of this word renegade. There's a lot of ideas of renegade factions going on here and in Paradise Lost. And then I love that the aurora earlier on when we're showed the photograms gets described as a curtain when Asriel shows it. And that, yes, of course, the city can be seen behind it. And I'm pretty sure I've seen other people describe the aurora as a curtain. And I'm pretty sure I've seen other people describe the Aurora as a curtain, but it's interesting in this context with the idea of other worlds and spiritual worlds lying beyond it.

Of course, curtains, as well as being frequently used to describe Auroras, are also a well-known metaphor for describing the divide between life and death. This happens in the fifth Harry Potter book, R.I.P. To that character. to that character to that character but because of the religious overtones of this series it kind of reminds me of that moment of jesus's crucifixion when the veil and the temple tears which is meant to symbolize god opening the way for salvation after the sacrifice of christ god ain't nobody right such good foreshadowing and such good parallels and such good characters as the people that made up the bible dr carne and charles worry that jordan will seem like it supports heresy and the master ponders trying to keep political balance especially while Lyra gets drawn in. Yes, Lyra has a part to play in all this, and a major one. The irony is she must do it all without realizing what she's doing. She can be helped, though, and if my plan with the Tokay

had succeeded, she would have been safe for a little longer. I would have liked to spare her a journey to the north. I wish above all things that I were able to explain it to her. No. Oh shit, this conversation sucks. I know, we were all like, damn, the master sucks but turns out he wanted to

just protect Lyra. Here I am, telling you guys a little bit ago, you're gonna change your opinions on characters, and here we are changing them! Yes. The librarian, though, insists that, no, Lyra's not gonna listen. She's not gonna be interested in dust.

And he's like, why would she be interested in dust? The master explains, though, that one of the things that will be part of Lyra's story is that she shall be a betrayer. She will be the betrayer, and the experience will be terrible. She mustn't

know that, of course, but there's no reason for her not to know about the problem of dust. And Dr. Carnet actually thinks that Lyra would be interested. And the librarian I thought this was a cute line. I'm not quoting it exactly, but he basically says,

it's the duty of the old to be anxious on behalf of the young. The duty of the young to scorn the anxiety of the old. I'm like, oh, I relate. It's true. As we get older. Yep, big mood. So they part. And a couple things in this,

I really thought it was interesting how it was framed that it was the problem of dust it's language that basically the church and the magisterium are calling dust bad it's telling us their stance that the problem of dust the the interesting quandary about dust capital d and this really isn't a prophecy per se in this story but it's more just excessive foreshadowing to us the reader of what's about to happen with dust or with lyra throughout the whole entire story but especially lyra because people do refer to it as a prophecy whatever anyways yeah that's kind of what I was curious about. But after, I don't know, after hearing prophecies and other stories, I just don't think it was a prophecy.

I guess it is, right? I mean, he's using the alethiometer and that's where he's getting this information. Is that what we think? Yes, that is where he's getting it from. That's where the alethiometer told him all this. So maybe this one per se isn't a prophecy but

I see what you're saying but also to be fair yes it likely is then because he's making actions based off of what this little not golden compass told him yes and just because and then I guess that raises questions of like

what constitutes as a prophecy in terms of like how you receive that information but dust is indeed bad in the home but now let's talk about lyra's home let's get to that third chapter. It's titled Lyra's Jordan, and it is an exposition chapter. This is world building. This is info dump. It is huge. We are going to speed racer through it. We are going to get in the Mach 5 and drive on down these Google Doc pages of story, story, story.

Because we're at Jordan, the baddest bitch of Oxford colleges. It has buildings from the early Middle Ages to the mid-18th century and it just kept growing because they're like, I don't know, we're rich, let's just make all this other shit. We're going to own some farms in this state and they're going to be all over the country, alright?

We're stacked. And in particular, Jordan College is very known for what is called experimental theology here and lyra feels a lot of pride in the college that she calls home and boasts of it to the i'm gonna this is the word using the story ragamuffins she plays with adorable been called that as as a youth before a ragamuffin back before your demon chose shape. Yes, exactly. There's this passage.

As for what experimental theology was, Lyra had no more idea than the urchins. She had formed the notion that it was concerned with magic, with the movements of the stars and the planets with tiny particles of matter but that was guesswork really probably the stars had demons just as humans did and experimental theology involved talking to them lyra imagined the chaplain speaking loftily listening to the star demons remarks and then nodding judiciously or shaking his head in regret but what might be passing between them she couldn't conceive oh that like first half obviously i haven't gotten through this whole series but that feels right she it's because she only half listens to the scholars that's the thing she like listens to some of it and then she's like all right that was cool then she's like i'm

bored of this now and so she kind she understands like the movements of stars and planets and tiny particles of matter but the idea of it being constrained with magic but i i just really liked this passage and the way it was written you were talking about the language before and i thought that it was well done and there's i think a lot of poetry to me in the idea of stars having demons and being able to speak with them to learn about the world and I just thought that was really

that was really touching yeah it goes back to that idea of halos with the Greek theory and it goes back of course to Aristotle like we were talking about it's really interesting of if it exists, if it acts, it is

that law of physics but Lyra's not interested in this whole metaphysics biophysiology, she's not interested, she's a child, not an intellectual and I think it's interesting and I think it's really great how he colors this

he shows Lyra's humanity that she's a 12 yearyear-old girl, but she can coexist with these scholars. But she also loves to spend time with this whole other family, these children that run the streets. And it's just so nice. It's a refreshing character. Yeah, she's a lot of fun. Her favorite activity also is running across the college's rooftops together with the kitchen boy roger and they like to like throw stones and harass the visiting scholars they also they also have a bunch of other things she's like you know just as we can't conceive of what the scholars do

they would never know that the children have battles and treaties with the other child factions uh in other ox colleges. For example, once Lyra had been captured by the kids of Gabriel College. There are 24 colleges and all the children fight one another, but they all unite against the Townsies children, which I think, I guess that would be called, I've never heard them referred to as townsies but i have heard the term townie uh here in the u.s so yeah i think that's probably similar i think it's the same same word or vibe they're all perpetual enemies though of the brick burner children everyone i guess hates the brick burner children they live by the clay beds and they knocked over their clay castle once like goddamn. Kids are fucking vicious.

And every year they clash with the migratory Egyptian children who come here on boats. There was one family of Egyptians in particular who regularly returned to their mooring in that part of the city known as Jericho, with whom Lyra had been feuding ever since she could first throw a stone. When they were last in Oxford, she and Roger and some of the other kitchen boys from Jordan and St. Michael's College had laid an ambush for them, throwing mud at their brightly painted

narrowboat until the whole family came out to chase them away, at which point the reserve squad under Lyra raided the boat and cast it off from the bank to float down the canal, getting in the way of all the other water traffic while Lyra's raiders searched the boat from end to end looking for the bung Lyra firmly believed in this bung if they pulled it out she assured her troop the boat would sink at once but they didn't find it and had to abandon ship when the Egyptians caught them up to flee dripping and crowing with triumph through the narrow lanes of jericho i just love this passage it just shows i think a lot about lyra's childhood but also i like again there's some well done writing here

lyra firmly believed in this book she is 12 years old well she is very obvious she's just like yes exactly there's just so much faith of i believe that this thing exists and we can sink the ship with this i just love the way she firmly believed in this bug she is a woman of a young woman of her convictions that is she really is though she and i think that's something that's really fun about her she always felt that while part of her was in this world and of the college there was another part destined for high politics alongside her uncle lord asriel she doesn't bother to find out more but she does lord it over the other kids she has to dress up all nicely when Asriel visits and one time the other kids saw and they started to make fun of her.

Yeah, they're like, ew, you're wearing a dress, what the hell? And they just like fall over laughing. They're like, that's dumb. And then during these visits of course Asriel checks on how Lyra is being raised. I think he's just like, what the hell is happening here? On one

visit he calls her out he's like so what do you do when you hang out and she's like oh i don't know i just hang out in these libraries and gardens he's like i saw you on the fucking roof you monster kid she's like all right i go on the roof and he's like all right so you go all over the roofs and she's just like no i don't go on all of them i can't reach there's this one roof i can't reach from up there i've never been on that he's like's like, alright, fine. So you go in the gardens and the libraries and you're all over the roofs. And then he

busts out and he's like, but have you visited the underground? Like the fucking hipster ass guy he is. Right, like what is it? Like some sort of prohibition era bar? Knock on the back door three times? It kinda is. We're gonna get to that. In a way it kinda is, don't gonna get to that in a way it kind of is

don't you think yeah a little bit as we know the master and librarian were actually wrong lyra is super deeply interested in dust and the book says she'll learn more about it than anyone else in the world but enough about that we suddenly get a cut in the chapter. Kids are disappearing. We follow a child, we're told, that will disappear. Very, very fourth wall breaking. His name is Tony Makarios. He is called Tony Makarios. His mother thinks he's nine years old, but she has a poor memory that the drink has rotted.

He might be eight or ten. His surname is Greek, but like his age, that is a guess on his mother's part, because he looks more Chinese than Greek, and there's Irish and Scrailing and Lascar in him from his mother's side too. Tony's not very bright, but he has a sort of clumsy tenderness that sometimes prompts him to give his mother a rough hug and plant a sticky kiss on her cheeks. The poor woman is usually too fuddled to start such a procedure herself, but she responds warmly enough once she realizes

what's happening. My heart's breaking. Oh. Tony is in the market. He's stealing food so he can spend his money on something else. Good for him. Just putting it out there. And by St. Catherine's Oratory, he's

eating his prize. But he's being watched by a woman in a fox fur coat. Her daemon is a golden monkey, which, of course, animal corner, represents playfulness, youthfulness, and trickery. Tony's daemon, named Ratter, becomes a sparrow, and the monkey lures it in. The sparrow represents simplicity caring and friendliness so simple kind good yes i like how its name is radder though me too very simple i'm like but it's a different animal entirely fascinating to me really fascinating to me but then the monkey closes its grip on the sparrow and Tony feels it and reflexively responds. He can't help it.

The woman offers him some chocolatel and he agrees to go with her. And then there's this other passage. He's lost already. He was lost the moment his slow-witted daemon hopped onto the monkey's hand. He follows the beautiful young lady and the golden monkey down Denmark Street and along to Hangman's Wharf, and down King George's steps to a little green door in the side of a tall warehouse. She knocks the doors open, they go in, the door is closed. Tony will never come out, at least by that entrance,

and he'll never see his mother again. poor drunken thing will think he's run away and when she remembers him she'll think it was her fault and sob her sorry heart out oh man sad i know this is obviously a really recurring theme that we see not only in pop culture i mean there's other shows like the runaways for example is something that springs to mind right away but this sort of grooming behavior and predator behavior is something that is involved with trafficking of children all the time every single day and it's very gross she is preying on him like an animal. The demons are playing the scene of what she's actually doing. So while this woman that is watching him and her demon is talking to his demon and interacting with his demon, while that's going on, the demons are actually playing out on screen for us what she's doing.

But all the while she is smiling and she is seducing him with this chocolate. Yeah. the while she is smiling and she is seducing him with this chocolate yeah especially when you look at how it's a lower class it's the one being seduced by this and this predatory behavior it's just gross well because she's going after someone who seems like he's alone right like and no one cares about him and someone does but like she's not going to come after him because if he's already alone like that that there's clearly and then as you were saying this is how trafficking and grooming unfortunately does occur they'll go after people where they feel as though those kids are vulnerable yeah they don't really have a support network someone might not necessarily miss them while tony mccarius's mom kissed him goodbye and loves him as he said or as

we have this third person omniscient narrator saying she's not very wary she doesn't know where he goes she doesn't know what he does and she doesn't really care much she cares to the extent that like she she cries about it but at the same time, she doesn't really have it to pursue him and thinks maybe that it was better for him. That's why he ran away, because I was a shit mom. But he loved her. That's what that, not only that culture, but that's also what that breeds, right? That money, like that, you don't have that money. It's expected that your kid's out there stealing food to survive.

Yeah. I mean, he had a bit of money, but he's just like, no, I'm going to buy you other cool shit. But yeah. And Tony, it turns out, isn't the only child that's taken. In the cellar of a warehouse are a dozen other children, and none of them quite realize what they all have in common, which is that none of them have reached puberty yet.

They ask the woman, why are we all being kept here? And she's like, oh, I need your help. And then suddenly when she pleads with them, the children all fall shy, because they feel as though they've never seen someone so sweet and gracious before, and they feel lucky to be here. She offers to let them write letters home or tell their loved ones what's happened to them as she brings them on this journey to to help them and tony asks her to deliver a message to his mother she agrees that she will get it to her and so the children say goodbye to the woman the monkey pets their daemons and the children touch her coat for luck, or for strength, or for hope, or whatever.

They all just sort of ritually touch it, and then as they sail away, the woman turns around, and then she throws all of their letters into the fire. Coming back to that idea of throwing a letter into the fire, or throwing a piece of paper into the fire from earlier with the master. This is a very different piece of paper. This is Hope being thrown straight into that fire and has a bitch ever been so fucking evil. Holy shit, what a way to characterize

this woman, that it starts this beautiful, kind, sweet, shy woman with this golden monkey who's just come, sweetling. It'll be fine. And it's up there with that villain twist of Cersei Lannister, the queen in Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire. And that little line from a Game of Thrones that this character says, where it's just

this quiet line of something that's so condemning, so condemning that you realize, wow, this bitch is a villain. And Mrs. Coulter is exactly that she's she's got such complexities as we'll find out later on but she's evil this is awful you're mean you're a mean woman yeah and i think if you've watched the trailer for his dark materials there's a scene where ruth wil has this fabulous facial expression, which I think really captures a lot of what's so fucked up about this character. And it's just in that second, right, in the trailer. Yeah, absolutely. I'm very excited to see her performance. Yes, and you can compare it, like, I haven't watched the movie, you can compare it like i haven't watched the movie you

can compare it with nicole kidman's performance see and i've watched the movie and you and i will have we'll have to do some sort of extra episode about this because i have thoughts yeah i intentionally did not watch the movie because i was like this looks like it's gonna go awry oh it's it's garbage so i can't wait to talk about it but first children from the slums were easy enough to entice away but eventually people noticed and the people were stirred into reluctant action for a while there were no more bewitchings but a rumor had been born and little by little it changed and grew and spread and when after a while a few children disappeared in norwich and then sheffield and then manchester the people in those places who had heard of the disappearances elsewhere added the new vanishings to the story and gave it new strength.

Yeah, so again, there's a lot of what Chloe and I were talking about regarding children from the slums being easy enough to entice away. children from the slums being easy enough to entice away and when enough of them disappeared now finally like action is taken by the authorities but it's just sad that like when not enough right no one bothers to come looking for them because there's no money behind that search and then no one really quite knows who takes the children or to where they they pose a couple of theories from the rumors people have been saying and I kind of like this story or this theory a third story told of a youth who laughed and sang to his victims

so that they followed him like little sheep and I like this one because it reminds me of that story of the Pied Piper who played songs and stole the town of Hamlin's children and like yes obviously the right theory is the one about it being a woman but there's a lot about the way

she acts in all this that evokes this Pied Piper kind of story okay I like that and eventually people settle on calling them the Gobblers and it becomes a part of common

parlance which the Gobblers and the true identity of who the Gobblers, and it becomes a part of common parlance, which the Gobblers and the true identity of who the Gobblers are is looking us in the face, and we will come back to that, and maybe it was alluded to earlier on. You'll have to pay attention and keep listening. But of course, it's a game for the children. The children deal with it the way they can and make it a game. Ly suggests to roger they play kids and gobblers where she'll try to snatch him and then slice you open like the gobblers do and then there's this line about roger's devotion he was her devoted slave by this time he would have followed her to the ends of the earth of course as they go and play this game, no one actually knows what the gobblers do.

And Roger's like, you wouldn't even know what to do if gobblers came along. You don't know what they do. And she goes, I had to do the gobblers when I saw my uncle Asriel do. Last time he was at Jordan College. He gave a man a hard look and he died. And I think that this is the same time that we were there. Because she says this is in the retiring room. And I'm like, we were literally there, Lyra there lyren this did not happen kids are such bullshitters and i respect that like that's

some hard game and in fact the opposite happened like asriel almost died in this scene yeah i'm assuming that this is that same moment but i'm just like i don't think that happened so instead they turn this story into a game of Lord Asriel against the Tardars, and they smear sherbet dip on their mouth. Hilarious. Right? Fucking kids. As to be the foam, the foam of the time.

She convinces him to play gobblers, and they sneak into the wine cellars, and they decide to taste wine for the very first time. I love this. It's kind of interesting that Pullman is spitting all of these relations on their head. Usually the Romas are the ones with the stories of kidnapping kids or snatching them from old lore. Even the language is similar, that use of snatch and kidnap. Even to current day with different gangs

in modern history this is something reported on but this time they're the ones that have been victimized in a story and pullman's definitely hinting at that institution already named being the culprits in kid snatching not the roma and it's an interesting play with that christian persecution of old hmm Interesting, yeah. And there's a lot of other stuff here too going on. Again, a lot of the stories about how things aren't always what they appear to be, and he does that with those different cultures. You were talking about the Roma.

We're introduced to the Tartars as these terrifying soldiers in the story, and the Egyptians' children are initially set up as Lyra's enemy, terrifying soldiers in the story and the egyptians children's are like initially set up as as lyra's enemy but as the story develops we see some of that curtain get pulled back and the cultures of these people become a lot more humanized and so lyra and roger get drunk for the first time and what happens when children are drunk, apparently, is that their demons strive to become an even uglier creature than the next. That's the game. And then they're plastered into drunk.

And then Roger asks, do they like doing this? Gasped Roger after vomiting copiously. they like doing this gasped roger after vomiting copiously yes said lyra in the same condition and so do i she added stubbornly me too lyra me too every morning waking up with a wine hangover me too do they like doing this yes me too after this excion, Lyra explores the underground more with her uncle's advice, and we're going to talk a little bit about plunging into that underground, this other world with Roger later on in our discussion. the wall with the years they were master, the name of their demon, and requesant in pace. The coffin's plaques depict the shape of their demons, which for adults are permanent. Yes. So again, some of that world building of how adult demons become static.

There's some interesting demons here, like amongst the masters. One has a basilisk, and someone else actually had a fair woman as a demon and what's even more interesting is so we are using like an electronic version you know for like notes and putting things into our outline but in my version slash edition of the book which is a compiled version of like all three of the His Dark Materials trilogy that's in there, that fair woman being a daemon of one of the masters and it's not

in this electronic version so I don't know like what the difference is between versions and what the decision was behind whether to include it if it was added later or if it was taken out because my version also still has the woman in the golden coat.

The woman with the golden demon monkey having black hair, so I don't know. Anyways. This version does too, the one I'm reading. Yeah. It goes to show... And the reason we call that out is because after the Golden Compass movie with Nicole Kidman playing

that woman, Philip Pullman felt compelled that this character actually has blonde hair. And I think it really works if she does, but anyway, it does go to show that the demons aren't limited to our world's animals,

but also, like, I don't know, what does it mean if someone has a human as their demon? Tell me. Tell me, Chloe's Aminal Hour. Corner. Corner. Unknown. Corner. Hour. I don't know. I'm not there yet. That's an interesting one. I haven't gotten to think about that

in depth yet, and I think we should come back to it next episode. Okay. We can come back to it, shelve it, just like all of these skulls that are in shelves. Yeah, they're likely the skulls of scholars, and each contain a coin that depicts their demon as well. Lyra one day plays a trick where she mixes up the coins, and Pentelimon stresses out. He becomes a bat, and he tries to get her to stop, but she doesn't anyways.

he becomes a bat and he tries to get her to stop but she doesn't anyways that night she's visited by night guests in their robes headless where their skulls would be pan scares them off by becoming a lion but after that she goes back down underground and she writes the coins and apologizes yeah yeah and then another time when they're heading down there to the underground, the intercessor, Father Haste, stops them. He sends Roger back to the kitchen and then he girls Lyra about her companions. Like, are you lonely? Do you want to hang out with the girls more? And she's like, no, I'm chill. And he's like, whatever, you know you can talk to me about anything, right? And she's like, okay, word.

And then he lets her go. Mm-mm. I don't like that. What just happened there? And you know why so then the gobblers came to Oxford the first time Lyra heard it it was a child from Egyptian family that she knew

with the canal basin full of boats yep and this year she has a plan for waging war against Egyptian children again it's not going to be about the bug, but turns out there ends up not being a war

because as it's about to start by the boatyard, Lyra hears Ma Costa yelling and trying to find her son Billy, who's suddenly gone missing. Ma Costa had given Lyra clouts on the ear twice, but gingerbread trees thrice.

Her family's well-respected among the Egyptians. Lyra describes them like princes. But it's also their family she tried to sink by finding the bunghole. The bunghole! The bunghole! Bunghole-io? She firmly believed in this bunghole. My favorite.

When Lyra asks, Egyptian child tells her they think the gobblers got him, and Lyra's surprised to learn they're in Oxford. Half a dozen brats turned with expressions of derision, and Lyra threw her cigarette down, recognizing the cue for a fight. Everyone's daemon instantly became warlike. Each child was accompanied by fangs or claws or bristling fur and Pentalimon, contemptuous

of the limited imaginations of the Egyptian demons, became a dragon the size of a deer hound. I just want to say, first of all, I like that Lyra's like, alright, it's going down. Throws her cigarette on the ground because she's like, we're gonna fight. But also, most importantly, Lyra is 12 and should not be smoking cigarettes young lady where did you get

this i know she's wild as i say truly she is she's unruly truly ma costa is not having any of this bullshit she smacks the kids around and she's like have you seen billy lyra and i love my costa she's like the molly weasley of the story she's the mother figure lyra didn't have growing up right i think that's a perfect oh yeah that's a perfect description of her yeah she's loving and caring and has a good heart she is is. And she protects Lyra. Nope. Can't say that yet. She is. She is. And because the Egyptians often let their

children roam around and aren't usually concerned with this, Lyra feels even more fear seeing that Ma Costa is terrified about Billy's whereabouts. Everyone's unsure about what happened to Billy and what the gobblers actually do, as we've noted. And Lyra

deduces that, based on everyone's accounts, Billy probably hasn't been seen for at least two hours. She says, though, that the gobblers must look like ordinary people or must be able to blend in or else they couldn't have just come out in broad daylight. Clever.

Very clever. She's astute. They don't find Billy and the Egyptians are angry and tired and sad and she learns that a girl, Jessie Reynolds, was also taken from the market. She escapes Jordan College despite the master's orders to talk to some kids

over at St. Michael's and she admires the 16 year old who can spit further than anyone she's ever seen before this is hilarious this is lyra's hero she's just like that kid's so cool he can spit so far louise from bobsburgers i could see that maybe we get along yeah same the older kids disbelieve the rumors of the Gobblers, and as Lyra explains they're real, she suddenly remembers. Something had suddenly come into her mind. During that strange evening she'd spent hidden in the retiring room, Lord Asriel had shown a lantern slide of a man with streams of light pouring from his hand, and there'd been a small figure beside him with less light around it, and he'd said it was a child, and someone had asked if it was a severed child and her uncle had said no that was the point lyra remembered that severed meant cut and then something else hit her heart where was roger no but also sidebar it's just like this is how it opens and that's how it ends no i know fuck so

suddenly she feels fear she rushes back to jordan college and clamors for roger she's afraid the gobblers got him she starts to cry and the others convince her they also care for roger and she says no if you did you'd look for him so she runs away she runs onto the roof this was her world she wanted it to stay the same forever and ever but it was changing around her for someone out there was stealing children she sat on the roof ridge chin in hands pullman does just a great job of capturing that cusp of adolescence and the grief that comes with that transition of realizing your world is changing, especially because you're literally losing your friends. Literally.

My world is still doing that bullshit. I feel you, girl. Lyra tells Pan they have to rescue Roger, and this is like her big I want song, right? This is Lyra's arc. She thinks that the kids are being taken to the arctic piecing together what she's learned from asriel and as she gets back to her area chatting with pan mrs lonsdale the housekeeper who has a daemon golden retriever loyal kind dutiful animal corner calls her in

she scolds lyra for being unclean and she starts to prepare her for a dinner with the master and his guests. In the drawing room, Lyra meets Dame Hannah from one of the other colleges, whose demon is also a marmoset, a monkey, and then she meets Mrs. Coulter. She was beautiful

and young. Her sleek black hair framed her cheeks, and her daemon was a golden monkey. Dun dun dun! Dun dun dun! That's like a perfect place to cut it. Now everyone's in suspense. Yup.

Yup. And everything's starting to come together within this chapter. You get that setup, and then that reveal. All great. All great. Yes. together within this chapter you get like that setup and then that reveal all great all great yes so of course we are going to go into our discussion after this a reminder that it will cover the very first book of the his dark materials series uh all spoilers for the first book i do not know anything past the first book besides like three things I read on Wikipedia on accident.

Eliana also spoiled one thing for me, but it is what it is. All right, so there's obviously like a million things that we could discuss about this series. But right from the beginning, we're getting a lot of really great setup for the fates of these characters. And there's a lot of fun wordplay too. And upon a reread, ends up to be a lot of foreshadowing in that second chapter. When we're talking about Lyra growing up in Jordan College and these scholars, there's a line that says, they were men who had been around her all her life, taught her, chastised her, consoled her, given her little presents, chased her away from the fruit trees in the garden. And garden, again, here is capitalized.

And this is some really great imagery that harkens back to, again, that Garden of Eden, because much of the story revolves around all these learned men chasing Lyra away from those fruit trees in the garden, in a sense, very much controlling her. And I do think it's interesting that it's men who are the ones who are trying to keep her from that fruit tree in the garden, keeping her away from that tree of knowledge, etc. Especially because later on in the story, and this is past book one, much past book one, we're going to have like a woman later on playing more of that role of the serpent from The Fall of Man. And then, of course, we have the master of Jordan College within this book, when he's talking about how Asriel must

have known there was poison in the cup, he calls Asriel the devil for having known about it. So I think that's really interesting, and it is kind of a fun wordplay setting up the role that asriel is going to be playing in this larger story yeah and obviously i haven't gotten past this first book i can't speak to what you're speaking about for the next books but there's a lot being pulled on from paradise lost right during all of this yeah and and a lot of that is because Paradise Lost, right, during all of this. Yeah, and a lot of that is because Lyra's fate is to fulfill a prophecy, as Eve Pullman has stated, that he's inspired by that poem. And of course, it comes up as like this prophecy of that fall. And we learn later that the master's actions seemed insidious, as we were discussing earlier, of like, how things things seem especially because he's a raven for a demon and

I mean ravens aren't always associated with positive things but it seems like a lot of the learned people or wise people throughout this book seem to have birds as their demons which we can talk about that eventually in some sort of animal corner and now

Lyra must go forth because Asriel didn't die in this chapter, bringing her fate even closer. And what I really like about this at this stage in the story is that rather than Lyra being subject to the whims of fate and prophecy, right? Because of what she sees and because she chooses to take action and cannot ignore the poison, she's the one who ends up putting herself on this course, even though it's unknowingly, because she is after all a very willful child. And it's poetic that her actions here give her that autonomy in her course for her life, considering that the world is going to hinge upon the choices that she makes. So it's a lot of that free will in terms of fate versus someone else deciding it for her.

There's a lot of Netherworld language that you were discussing that you said I'm not allowed to know more about and we can't go into because it's a direct spoiler. But I can already see kind of these splits in the text of who lyra is and that kind of unfathomable living up to that mountain of who her parents are and who she doesn't want to be and how her life is tugging her in that direction she's very much so living half of her world in summer and half in winter with that Persephone imagery. She's swimming amongst souls. Yeah, and a lot of that is set up in these first few chapters, which can feel like foreshadowing, whether it is or it's not, that pulls the entire book series as a story together. Yeah, and there's a lot of setup in these first couple chapters that gets

that stage going especially when it comes to roger and i don't want to get too sad because it's our very first episode and i don't deserve this no truthfully no one deserves this pain but i didn't notice until this read through eliana he was her devoted slave by this time. He would have followed her to the ends of the earth. Fuck! Dude, like, when I was reading this again, I don't know, it's just so hard

reading it about the children and knowing what happens to them. It's so painful. And I don't know, I think it hurts because I used to work with a lot of street children. And also a lot of the work that I do now focuses on people who don't always have a is it these are the people who get preyed upon by those who think that they can do whatever just because they have money and power and it just it's so painful to think about like what happens to them yeah the idea of what a life is worth we're talking about that a lot over at our song of ice and fire podcasting right now but what is a life worth and what

constitutes someone's life worth that more than another person and why is roger's life worth less than someone like mrs coulter's life or why what makes it that why is it like and of course there's like i guess prophecies around it and stuff but asriel doesn't know that right asriel doesn't know that what lyra's place is going to be in all this what makes roger's life worth less than lyra's and we know what it is right it's that like lyra's his daughter and obviously he doesn't want to do that and it's almost that look of relief he gets when he sees roger is there that choosing of the lesser person like, there's a better option that hurts less to do. And the idea that he's a truly broken and empty man, you know, that's what this says to us,

that if you're willing to do that to a person, whoever they are, a person, you've truly lost your path. Yeah, or I don't know, it plays with some other ideas or themes of like, is it worth it or not, right? Like, based on some of the courses that Lord Asriel will take, and lost path versus enormous conviction, because in a lot of ways, Lord Asriel is still painted as very heroic, despite this horrible act and I don't know it's such a gut punch that idea he would have followed her to the ends of the earth and he does follow her to the end of this world and the end of this earth as it opens at the end into another one and only death

can pay for life or something like that it's just so Pullman does a really great job of showing and not telling. He's not only having Asriel give Lyra these hints and unsaid quizzes, but he's quizzing us, the reader, as well. He's showing Lyra and us the photos. He puts the slides, the pictogram slides up for us and the scholars and lyra the hints and

clues but the tragedy is that none of us just like lyra understand until it's too late right yeah i i mean but like how would they like how would they realize what he's going for but i mean i guess we should have seen right that like clearly he's not like super perturbed by the idea idea of it being like a severed child no one in that room truly is because they're all like we're intellectuals we're doing it in pursuit of knowledge or whatever higher cause and they're all just like is it a severed child like everyone fucking knows yeah it's this don't ask don't tell policy and we see it a lot in religious institutionalism you look at catholic church look at all of the

covering up that's been going on there with a lot of stuff it's where power resides corruption and rot resides every time yes and coming back up all the way to the beginning it is here we're going to talk about lyra's name and why i'm now so insistent on saying lyra and correcting myself every two seconds because i keep saying lyra because her name is lyra it's inspired by a lyre, the musical instrument. But of course, if you look at it in the context of Lyra and the lyre, it sounds a lot like the word liar, right? And it makes a lot of sense in the context of her being Lyra Silvertongue, which plays against this idea of truth versus lies that knowledge and innocence especially as lyra is in many ways very innocent but she's still like doing this very deceitful thing and continuing to portray innocence but it's kind of funny because both of her parents are also

very good liars yeah and we'll dive into Mrs. Coulter a little more when we get closer to. Oh my god. But we did talk about Asriel's breakdown and etymology of his name today, and Mrs. Coulter's going to have a little bit of that too. There's a big battle for truth, and it all boils down to that knowledge

is power idea as we discussed earlier yeah it's just kind of funny because we're having these sort of trickster characters right especially with all these animals set up as our protagonists well ira is very much a trickster cat character and deceit then in all of this and the ability to deceive well is set up as not necessarily a bad thing right in some ways it's set up as very heroic because it belongs to our heroes so it's it's kind of interesting to turn that on its head, especially if you're taking inspiration from Paradise Lost and portraying Satan or the deceiver, right, the devil, as more sympathetic or a hero. And then I like this thing about the Panzerbjorn, and I'm just flagging it for us to get back to much, much later. Just remember this line, of course, when we come back to Yorick and when we're in Svalbard. The Palmarian professor went on, for all that, I tell you that Joffre Rackinson would be capable of doing this to Grumman at the same time.

He could be flattered into behaving quite differently if the need arose. Clever girl. Yep. A lot of good setup. There's a lot of that. Lyra's very clever. She's very sharp. She's a smart girl, and that is a lot of times what saves her ass in this

story, so far that I've read. While we're talking about groundwork being laid there is this line but unfortunately for the magisterium there seems to be sound mathematical arguments for this other world theory is this foreshadowing yes i don't know it but it sounds vaguely like foreshadowing about a plot i accidentally heard like five words about so i don't know it but it sounds vaguely like foreshadowing about a plot i accidentally heard like five words about so i don't know i mean it literally ends with this exactly see the book literally ends with this so i'm allowed to say it

yes good good i can say whatever i want but yes yes absolutely and finally i want to come back to one more thing about roger chloe take off your headphones unless you want to. Oh, yes, yes. Unless you've already read this. I'm taking them off. I'm spoiled. I'm not allowed to know. Okay, my headphones are off.

Are they really? Go for it. Okay. So coming back once more, though, because this is something that happens in book three, and I did want to touch on it since it is here in this first book, book three, and I did want to touch on it since it is here in this first book, that language about Lyra and Roger exploring the underground and how Lord Asriel asks her if she goes there. The underground, of course, can in many ways be seen as the land of the dead. It is, after all, where the crypts of the masters are and the scholars' skulls, and along with Roger following Lyra all the way to the ends of the

Earth, I think that them exploring this underground, which again, they call the Netherworld, jokingly here in this chapter, pretends a lot of Lyra's later story where she is going to venture into the land of the

dead to rescue Roger and the other the other dead and in another world they're reunited as they were in life so i'm bringing chloe back hello hello i'm back i'm back what did i miss anything good um i don't know okay well i guess a tale for another time i'm excited to get to another book eventually someday and learn the rest of it I'm itching yes

so next time we will be doing a couple of other chapters we are still you know feeling out which chapters we're going to do it's in all likelihood it's going to be about three to four chapters which would place us at about you know we're going to do, in all likelihood it's going to be about three to four chapters which would place us at about you know, we're definitely next

episode going to cover the alethiometer and the cocktail party. We'll probably cover up to the throwing nets and I would say we might end up stopping there, right? I don't know. Yeah, I imagine we'll hit probably chapter four, five, and six,

the alethiometer, the cocktail party, and the throwing nets. If we get into Jon Fah, that's an early present. I don't think we will. I think we need to save that for the next episode. Yeah, and we'll warn all of you if that ends up happening. Thanks so much for coming on this new adventure with us, you guys. This is our second book series that we're reading. I'm excited because I'm really into it so far.

I really just find myself falling more in love with it each time we talk about it, Eliana and I. So thanks for listening. Yes, and of course, I'm very excited about it. Pullman's expanded his universe since these books had finished. And I just really loved these books growing up. So it's a real treat to come back to them and revisit it, you know, with my stable, defined demon.

Whatever the fuck that might be. We will discuss that eventually. We have to choose what our adult demons would be soon enough. So we will definitely discuss it. But for now, we'll leave you with this first episode of Girls Gone Canon on His Dark Materials, Northern Lights, The Golden Compass, Episode 1, Chapters 1 through 3. You can find us on social media at Girls Gone Canon on Twitter or send us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Yep.

And you can subscribe to us to get these episodes or our A Song of Ice and Fire episodes on iTunes, on Google Play, on Stitcher, on Acast, on Spotify, and they all go up on Podbean. Yes, and

if you got a couple bucks burning in the bottom of your pocket, in the place where an alethiometer should be, throw them at us on Patreon. We have a Patreon. We do a bunch of extra content. You'll get some fun things through that extra content. Some show notes,

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Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon. Yep. And so we hope that you've enjoyed this series beginning with us. Let us know what you think, of course, if you have any suggestions or things that you'd like to say. I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza Narber. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. You can find me as Arithmetric on Twitter. Thanks, guys.