Girls Gone Canon Cast - His Dark Materials: Episode 4 - Northern Lights/The Golden Compass Chapters 10-12

Episode Date: September 26, 2019

Northern Lights/The Golden Compass - Chapters 10-12 New members join Lyra's party: an aeronaut, an armored bear, and soon - however fleeting - a severed child. PART TWO: BOLVANGAR CHAPTERS 10, 11, 12 TEN The Consul and the Bear ELEVEN Armor TWELVE The Lost Boy   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

you're listening to girls gone canon covering his dark materials Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, His Dark Materials, Episode 4, Northern Lights, The Golden Compass, Chapters 10 through 12. I am one of your hosts. Chloe, you might know me from the internet as at Liza Narber on Twitter and Tumblr. And I am another one of your hosts, Aliana. You might know me as GlassTableGirl over on Reddit, or as Arithmetric over on Twitter. Hey, what's up? Greetings. Hello, everyone. You might know us as Girls Gone Canon, who are currently covering for the rest of our lives Jon Snow and A Song of Ice and Fire. But we also are on our fourth Is Dark Material episode. This is, like, a thing that's happening.

We're going to do more. We are. We are only on the first book. We're in the thick of things, you know. We hit the middle. We're on the next part. We're not on part one. This is our first episode in part two,

Bullvanger. Yes. And, you know, next thing you know, we're going to be on to the show. But for now, we are here on chapters 10, 11, and 12. 10, the Consul and the Bear. 11, Armor. 12, the Lost Boy. section so tune out if you don't want to know what happens after this in the golden compass northern lights subtle knife or the amber spyglass when we get to the section yeah we've expanded fuck it fuck it everyone we'll talk about why we expanded very soon but for now we're in bullvanger part three of course is spell bard uh if you're following with us so far, you know Spellbard is the iciest of the ice. It is the snowiest of the snow. It is full of bears and auroras and just so much northerness.

But before that, we do have some tweets of note and emails to get through. The first one comes from Logan Blizzard. Loving the HDM pods. Mind if I contribute to Animal Corner? Pullman's chameleon meaning seems to allude to Hamlet. Excellent if faith of the chameleon's dish. I eat the air. Promise crammed.

Act 3, Scene 2. Brilliant catch, Logan Blizzard. Has everyone remembered? I didn't even think of that. I didn't think of that. And I'm like You're like, who I go to? I'm like, is this Shakespeare? And you're like, yeah. I think this is a great catch.

Logan Blizzard, fantastic catch. This is referring to last episode. Tony Cherbonnier, aka at Tony3483 says to us, I just finished the Amber Spyglass and just wanted to say thank you. I'm not sure if I would have ever read this series if y'all hadn't started this podcast.

Oh my god. That's how I feel too, Tony. But aren't you glad that we did this? You're picking the next one. You can do that John Dies at the End series that you like, maybe. Wait, are you serious right now? You just said that on a recording. You can do John

Dies at the End. Eliana, I think you would love it. It's so silly and fun. It's like Scooby-Doo on acid and then like has some meta in it and philosophy. Okay. I digress. So to give you guys an update on Chloe's status, because when we started doing His Dark Materials, the goal was that we were emulating our really good friends over at Davos Fingers. If you follow us on our A Song of Ice and Fire podcast,

you'll know we just had Matt and Scat on from Davos Fingers. Two episodes in a row, we had each and the other on, and it was awesome. It was great. If you haven't listened to them, they are like the guys that have done it. They've gotten through the books, and we just got done with hanging out with them. Their podcast format is that they do a read through of the books and they do have a spoiler section at the end that covers everything instead of just what happened in that chapter so we are trying to live this podcast moment by moment only in the golden compass and northern lights depending on which version you're reading

and Chloe was supposed to read only the first book to do that but Chloe is much like Lyra in that when someone says Lyra no Lyra says Lyra yes and Eliotta said Chloe yes a very bad influence so I have caught up to the Amber Spyglass and I am at the last chapter at the time of this recording I have not listened to the last chapter that could change any day now probably Saturday Saturday mornings are my best reading days but that could change so our discussion might get a little deep but I agree Tony I would if I hadn't read the Amber Spyglass thank you Eliana because if I had not read the series, I just like I'm emotionally connected. I text Eliana, sometimes I message her and I'll say, Oh, my God, this thing is happening. And my heart is literally ripped on the sidewalk into and someone ran over it with like a monster truck or like a grenade or like bombs. And I don't know what's happening to it, but it's getting hurt and I'm hurt. I love this series a lot.

And now we have this like shared language. Now I can tell you Yorick Burnison in the town, AKA the polar bear loose in Belfast and dairy girls. Yes, exactly. Oh, when you texted me that or message me that, that was,

I said, I showed it to Emmett really quick, but I, dairy girls is really good. I'm too, thatdm i'm two episodes behind but uh my partner's already finished all two seasons we just started it last week that's how we were it was very fast and very good oh i think a good use of mute oh oh oh just like yorick Burnison. Oh! Our friend Jake sent us a tweet, not to be confused with Jaharis slash JakeMyCat. Jake Baker tweeted us and said

my face when y'all were gonna start doing His Dark Material episodes more frequently. Same, big mood. Yes, we are. We are so excited about doing these more. If you guys were here around in the last week week and a half we released episode three we're doing episode four right now that you're listening to and episode five will be out soon we're we're like pummeling towards the

end we're already gonna be halfway through bull vanger by the next time we record. I'm excited. But we're also talking about something exciting. His Dark Materials patron episode sometime in the future. Aliana, have you heard rumors about this? I don't know if I've heard rumors. I think I vaguely read it in my alethiometer,

perhaps. I'm not sure. Couldn't read it that clearly. I'm not chosen. Not innocent. I'm not sure. Couldn't read it that clearly. I'm not chosen. Not innocent. I mean, chosen. You know, my alethiometer had some hands pointing to a couple different things, like there was a cornucopia, and then it pointed

to a month, and then October, maybe? So if you're a plan in sort, just know that maybe in October you might get a surprise and it might be about his dark materials and it might involve wine it might Lyra and Roger

do adults actually like this yes and so do I us us in the last moment we got this great email from our friend Julie r it's such like a we always get these emails last second right before we record someone sends us an amazing email yeah every week you guys are good you guys know that we are like late at night pushing the midnight oil that one wasn't talking about ambaric oil

it's just kidding there's no that one wasn't like last during the night though that one was in like i don't know they just knew and they got it in and it was truly man there's like a lot we want to talk about for this one but we're going to just read it aloud now and tease everyone that we will come back to this so it truly says, I wanted to say I love historic materials. I listen to them on Audible because I can't read. Big mood. The audiobook is really great because they have a full cast reading the parts and Philip Pullman narrates.

Oh, that is pretty great. The reason for my email is I've also been listening to The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice and in the third book, The Queen of the Damned, in this book the origin of the vampire is revealed. It goes back to pre-Egyptian era when there's a religious-slash-cultural change that history

is being told by a character, Maharet, who is a witch-slash-magi with her twin sister. They are interrupted from their mother's funeral, where they were interrupted from consuming their mother's brain and heart, to be brought to see the queen and king. The queen outlawed cannibalistic funeral and then forced mummification as eliana has brought up cannibalism in a few podcasts i thought i'd share that there's some in-depth discussion of cannibalism as a funeral right in this series makes sense as it's a vampire series yeah that's true thanks for all of your hard work and fun discussion i love that ggc is diving to other works as well ggc that's true thanks for all of your hard work and fun discussion i love that ggc is diving to other works as well ggc that's us sometimes we refer to ourselves as that in

message we're gonna come back to this uh probably in the amber spyglass yeah or in the subtle knife in some of our uh discussions then those will get limited as we go for sure but there's a lot to talk about this is something interesting. Thank you, Julie, for this. And Julie was at Ice and Fire Con with us. Yes. And I know that we like have seen each other and almost hung out-ish.

So hopefully next year we'll get to hang out more. Yeah. I'm excited for Ice and Fire Con next year. I already have some fun ideas. I know. And we'll start chapter 10 now. The Consul and the Bear. This is an exciting chapter. It is the beginning of our first Bull of Anger chapter, and they only get crazier from here.

The Egyptian faction makes for Trollosund, which is the main port of Lapland. The witches have a consulate in town and they need the witch's help to save the children. So there actually is a and they need the witch's help to save the children. So there actually is a trolisand in Sweden, believe it or not. It's a manor. At one point, it was an orphanage for Finnish children during what's called the Continuation War, commonly in 1942 to 1945. It was fought by Finland and Nazi Germany against the USSR. And if you don't know, spoiler alert to history,

Finland was kind of like hardcore. The owner of Trollhasa named himself Troll Loen, and the family actually still has the property in that name, like to this day, according to some of these Swedish and Nordic families. There's a book on it. I need to dig through a library for this. I couldn't find it anywhere online to buy but it's how a peasant village becomes a manor and it makes me wonder if pullman is drawing from some of this nordic ancestry because it's it's measly as a connection but i like to dig to find this stuff and especially that orphanage for finnish children during this war fought by finland and nazi germany uh it makes me wonder with wonder what we're about to discover

in the next few chapters. Discover? Discover. Oh! Oh, damn. For sure. I think there's that. He's definitely inspired by a bunch of those things

like the name Lapland. My understanding is it's actually a real place in Finland but here Lapland is standing in for what might be all of maybe Finland in this world and apparently at Lapland in our world at the city

you can start seeing like the roarer and it's the gateway to the region. Yeah so he's definitely pulling from the real world and i think that you might be like onto something there even if it's like small obviously people are inspired by things and they draw those into like their works you think of nazi germany is hanging out with finland saying oh come on finland we're also the good guys like we're taking children and experimenting on them we're taking people and experimenting it's like oh gathering these

children in Trullasund the orphanage for refugees and these children are refugees from life right these are the kids we know right now that are being taken by gobblers are like a lot of different characters we're about to meet but you know these kids are disappearing they're not really people of note in society but we know who they are Lyra knows who they are they're just kids

absolutely yeah it's interesting I think Pullman's definitely pulling out a lot of those ideas he's Pullman-ing oh he's gonna be so mad if he ever hears that. I hope he feels like he's gonna never listen to our podcast. He's gonna fire us. My god. There's a lot of stuff that

sometimes I think and say on this podcast and I'm like, hmm, Philip doesn't need that. But maybe he does. I don't know. Just like Lyra, though, she doesn't need this seasickness and it's starting to fade. Pan is now a seagull against the sky and water and he's skimming the waves

and Lyra's paying attention to him instead of all the leaders talking about their plans I love this this is like I'm so excited do you know how excited I am for this chapter? oh she's so excited she only is going to get more excited from here on out for example

one of the things that excites Chloe is hearing about how Fargher Korra saved a witch's life 40 years back, so the witches owe him a favor. The witch had fallen after being chased by a great red bird and he helped nurse her back to health after pulling her from the marsh when he shot the bird down.

I think this idea of favors and debts and duty, we're going to see how that comes through in a couple of different ways throughout these next few chapters as we meet Yorick, but also with Lyra throughout the rest of the story. characters this is what we know from the beginning he really hammers it home that this is their character this is who farder quorum is this is who lyra is these are the witches it gives you this foundation to launch off of and everything he does enriches it from there because then we get this story about him and the witches right we get he had pulled this random faceless witch that we knew nothing about aboard but she had no demon and all of the other men had treated this with shock like like he had said that she had no head it's like

crazy to have no demon yeah they're from this world of demons and he figured at that time with no demon she had to have been a witch maybe it was because of her beauty or her grace or her flying on a pine cone just kidding it wasn't a pine cone but if anyone's flying in the air i'm probably gonna be like yeah that's a witch yeah but either way it concerned him that you know she had no demon and adam stefanski pipes in he's like their demons are probably transparent because they're witches it's not true but i like the idea i mean it's true of some places right yeah yeah but not here no no so quorum tells them that they're able to separate farther from their demons which is a very new revelation to all of us going along for this very first time ever in his dark materials including me quorum says that the demon of the witch came back within an

hour knowing that the witch had been injured and she never admitted it but quorum thinks that that bird that he shot was actually another witch's demon can you imagine that guilt yeah and then haunting him and him never like really knowing but is it is it mercy on the witch's part to not tell him or cruel there's a couple other parts in this book where witches have some revenge vendettas so yeah that's true i really am curious about what that was about i i you're reading labelle Sauvage right now, right? You're reading that. So I don't know if you're going to find anything out. I hope you do. I hope there's some secret inkling because this is an interesting spigot of knowledge

that we never get any sort of, I don't know, no confirmation of what it meant in the end to end, right? Yeah. I mean, like, I don't think I remember us seeing anything about that. Maybe it is in La Belle Sauvage, I don't know. But there's other there is other stuff, like, as you were saying, about in some other materials, like,

of witches and revenge, especially, like, playing in with that separation of their demons. And I think that we've seen that a lot of witches have different kinds of birds right as their demons so i don't think fargacorm is wrong to think well it's a bird and it's doing something weird maybe it's a demon of a witch yeah uh so i think that makes sense the the witch like had also

sent him help this witch when he was shot by a scraling with a poison arrow. And now Lyra's like, I want to know more about witches. But the men are like, let's talk about fuel. Who is she? But are we talking about that or are we talking about the birds? Big questions. Maybe that's why people made that

meme with the pigeon on the red carpet and saying, who is she? Because you're talking about who is that demon? So Lyra is obviously exploring this witchdom and the men on the deck are all talking about fuel and boring stores and she's like this is so boring she's walking around the ship and not to a-swap it for those of you that listened to our uh first podcast our firstborn song of ice and fire this is very aria stark and bravos to me she's like making friends on the boat she's being rowdy with the seamen that are working she's cussing with them what are you like i'm one of the boys right there's this guy jerry he's a she's talking with yeah and he teaches her that distraction with chores

will fix her stomach because she keeps getting sick on deck and if she does them in a seaman way then she'll always be distracted so now everything she does is in that way she's like I'm not tidying my room I'm stowing it and after two days of this she's like this is my

life now I live at sea yeah and she's like this is what I'm meant to do forever. And I'm like, this is the most Lyra move ever. But that's the thing is, this is like every chapter she does this, right? This is how it is as a kid. First off, when you're a kid, you're like, I'm just going to change and I'm this now. And later in this chapter, like she's always trying to be something else. Later, she's out there and she's, like, hanging out, doing different things.

And her demon, Pan, Panalemon, he's changing, too. And I wonder if that's a correlation, right? Pan will settle when she settles, as we learn in a couple chapters here in this episode. And she's lost also between that and complete inner self because of Marisa and Asriel. Coulter and Asriel, right? Yeah, for a long time, she like keeps thinking that she's like, Asriel, especially as she realizes that she's Asriel's daughter. And then we'll see how that changes. And I, again, like, I think this is something we brought up last episode that has to do a lot with what growing up is,

as you realize, you know, you try on a lot of different personalities to figure out who you are, and you're like, Until you become your mother. Or, yeah. Yeah. But, like, you try on a lot of different personalities until you, like, find one and you're like, yeah, maybe this works. This fits, so.

Yeah. It grows colder every day, and Lyra, along with learning how to stow instead of tidy, learns to sew from Jerry. She learns to make a waterproof bag for the alethiometer and finds her seal skins to wear. It turns out Lyra actually likes learning, because before she didn't want to learn how to sew when she was at Jordan College. I think she just wanted to know how to put it to use. It needed to be interesting for her, especially because she hates sitting around, clearly. She's trying to run on the rooftop.

Yeah, absolutely, with Roger. Maybe all. Lyra's getting seasick, but she's like, Pan, be a bird and distract me. So he even ends up changing into a fish and swimming as a dolphin at one point, but she has to stay on

deck with him being apart from him hurts too much and i want to pull us into our first animal corner about the dolphin for lyra it doesn't really represent the freedom you think it would right like you immediately associate freedom with dolphins right it's just a normal feeling they're just free they're leaping on water but dolphins are really diplomats of the sea they're ambassadors between land and water even if dolphins seem carefree it's likely that dolphins are wrestling with responsibilities but also heavy choices there are a lot of instances in common history of them going out of their way to save from sharks and yes absolutely from sharks and other dangers in the water the dolphin shows this sense of morality like an innate goodwill and inherent goodness that shines through and i i think it's important with pan

because i feel like pan reflects the good parts of lyra and her soul always i feel like he is always the angel on her shoulder saying lyrara, no, don't do it. Don't give in to... Shanks head around, looks into camera. Sing. And then Lyra's like, Lyra, yes! As you said. Lyra, no.

Lyra, yes! She's like, fuck. She worries, though, that, like, oh god, what if this is Pan's final form? Like, is it going to be something that has to be in the water? And then she's like, what would I do then? Lyra, I mean, I thought you were going to be a seaman. I thought this is what it means. Jerry comforts her, though, because his own demon, a seagull, is nearby.

He tells her about a sailor that he knew who could actually never leave the water because his demon had settled into a dolphin. Lyra asks why demons have to settle, and he tells her it's a part of growing up and that someday she will want a settled form too and she says no never i'm never gonna do that i'm never gonna grow up jerry says it's actually nice sometimes when it settles because then you'll know what kind of person you are like because of my seagull i know i'm tough and a survival and a survivor yeah jerry comes out with the whole entire animal corner he is a survivalist he's tough like you said there's plenty of folk as it'd like to have a lion as a demon and they end up with a poodle until they learn to be satisfied with what they

are they're gonna be fretful about it waste a feeling that is but it didn't seem to lyra that she would ever grow up big mood like me either sister but here we are grown up yep like the up. Lyra wakes up another morning to a new smell of air, a strange one really, and the ship is moving differently. Everything is smelling of the north. Fish, pine resin, earth, musk,

snow. Is this Captain Pratt? The seals are frisking around the ship. the ship sounds like a candle store yeah seals are frisking around the ship the wind is cold and daunting pan is trying to warm her in his air mind form but it's no use she goes back inside and she eats her porridge good for you yeah ford ford decor master is everything packed for when we leave the boat. And she has everything packed. So then they go to visit the Witch Consul.

And the Witch Consul is a green painted wooden house with a bell at the front and a man named Martin Lanselius. He's the consul and he greets them once a servant invites them in. His demon is a serpent and has the same green eyes that he has. And look, animal corner style. I don't talk about serpents because usually they're very self-serving. Serp. Serping. Serp, serp, serp.

What? I don't know. I do want to comment that serpents aren't always bad. They don't always mean inherent evil. But I love this line from matthew 10 16 jesus exhorted them behold i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves that has some resonance especially in the next couple of chapters because we do talk about wolves as demons with the Tartars.

We'll get to that. For sure. And I think that, A, first of all, regarding Serpents Not All Being Bad, Leta Lestrange, an example. She was great. The best. Also, Chloe. Chloe also. She's a great Slytherin.

Chloe's a great Slytherin. Thank you. Chloe also, she's a great Slytherin. Also, I mean, it's a story that is in many ways glorifying, right? The fall. And we'll talk about

other characters who play serpent roles at some point, and that's portrayed very positively. Yeah, he's very much being a tempter here. Now that you say that i think about it he is tempting he's tempting with knowledge this is something that lyra hasn't had and farter quorum also is interested in it and martin is about to tell them a lot because farter quorum tells him

immediately that he's looking for a witch by the name of seraphina Pukala. Pew pew pew! Pew! Pew pew pew! Pukala! Do you know how excited I've been about this movie? I think, so everyone in this document Chloe has made this text enormous. It is bolded in all caps. She's incredibly jazzed that we're

finally talking about Seraphina. I don't even know what's gonna happen, like, later on. I mean, i do but i do arta quorum starts to talk about last time he saw seraphina piccola and he tells the man that he's representing the gyptians and their lost children hoping to obtain some answers right and martin says look i may have knowledge but i don't want to disrupt the northerners lives so he's kind of playing this game right he's like i have knowledge i could tell you but oh and fartacorum's like that's why i asked about the witch first and

martin's like okay i understand and says that you know quorum is not unknown to the witches and he says that seraphina is a queen of a witch clan in the region of lake anara and then tells him information that wink wink didn't come from me some secret secrets and i mean this kind of happens to farter quorum a lot of people telling him things that they're like you didn't get this from me this happens a lot in some other stuff oh like LaBelle sorry everyone I'm in the middle of it okay

and I'm like it's technically a prequel I can't wait I'm so jealous I don't think I'm saying anything that is spoilery because I'm like it's a prequel and I'm not saying anything plot you know i'm excited to read it because it's like the marauders jk rowling wouldn't give us i said what i said i do like newt but there's a lot of things that i didn't like about the second movie oh fantastic two sucked it could suck i like the first one my

everything the first was great everything after that first was great. Everything after that, horrible. The first was like wholesome and shit. But anyways, sorry. Lancellius explains there's an organization called the Northern Progress Exploration Company in their town, but they're all fakes and they're actually run by the General Ablation Board. Interesting how systems are poisoned. I thought that was crazy because you do, you don't think about it. When you get Lyra with Coulter at the Arctic reservation site, when you get her there and like hanging out and having fancy meals and learning about stuff and seeing fancy people, you get that sense of money being gathered there. You know what I mean? mean like and this right here

this reveal this like revelation that oh the northern progress exploration company that's in town that's so esteemed and prestigious yeah they're gob gob oh my god oh my gob oh my god oh isn't that from, like, Adventure Time? It is, but it's also from Arrested Development. Yes. I was thinking Job was, and I actually have that. Job! I do have that later on in the note. I'm just going to say it now that every time I do see the GOB, I just think of Job from fucking Arrested Development.

Job would be fucking part of the Gobblers, let's be real. That's our, like, household joke. Our Job, like household joke honestly our job our house oh wow wow so martin knows about child trafficking going on in the city but he says the government doesn't i don't believe that's a lie the government is literally like they live in kind of a theocracy yeah like more like they do they just turn a blind eye to it because that's how power systems work and that's what we're hearing we're hearing about all these people with all this money and power that are like oh i gotta rub this guy's back so you rub my back and uh sorry poor people oh fuck yeah and martin's like yeah we didn't really investigate we don't know where the kids are taken after they arrive here and quorum asks well do you know what happened to them and then martin

looks at lyra before answering saying no i've heard the term maystad process and also intercision but all those are to avoid calling it by its real name he says that the last group of children arrived a week ago they left the day before last leaving by sludge. And we actually have no clue where they're going. Yeah, Fardercorum asks the question. Fardercorum asks what question Martin would ask of the consul if, you know, he was Fardercorum. And Martin Lancelius answers, I would ask where to obtain the service of an armored bear. Pew pew pew. Armored bear. Armored bear?

So Coram argues, he's like, the bears are all under the general ablation board, there's no way! And Martin's like, there's one at the sledge depot still. Eoric? Burnison. Bairnison. Pew pew pew! It's definitely like a bear.

Yeah, it's like really close. I love it. I love it. I don't have any problems with it. He then asks to look at Lyra's alethiometer and she shows it to him, but before she can interrupt with any details about reading it, Korm's like, oh, oh, it's too bad. It's just too bad that there's no means

of reading it. Like, it's a mystery to us. Like, the ink that the Hindus use for reading the future? Yeah, it's just not a real thing us like the ink that the hindus use for reading the future yeah it's just not a real thing haha wink wink sweating yeah snow snow man you know i i was maybe i was looking in the wrong place i didn't find a lot about this you know me i like to like get deep and find something fun and new but i did find some divination by ink methods from 19th century european culture called encromancy where ink stains basically spill on paper almost like rorschach tests right hinduism wise i wonder if maybe it is real and i'm just missing

that exactly i mean there's some kind of stuff but i don't know i found the right stuff so but anchormancy is interesting and i liked it it's called anchormancy i think that's something i think it's interesting that it's called or that you liken it to warshack tests there's a line in labelle sauvage sorry everyone not sorry where they're talking about how the best alethiometer readers are like those who aren't too imaginative with it because there are like those set meanings for some of them even though I disagree with some of them.

Because they're like, I don't know, because if you're too imaginative with reading some of the symbols you can make it say anything you fucking want. Right. I've never heard of such a person doing anything like that. Yeah. No, that was a joke joke I've seen a lot of people maybe it's about projecting but that's

yeah that's interesting to think about yeah I have to read this god damn stupid book yeah same I'm only like 60 pages into it which is hardly anything imagine if I finished the main series and then read labelle

i know right i'd be dangerous you would you would be also a savage beauty all right not that you're not right now now you're just a tamed beauty okay all right all right lyra is watching the serpent demon and it's obvious that they could sense the deceit. So she interrupts saying that actually I can read it. And she asks to know more about it. And I think this plays a little into what you were saying, Chloe, about Lenselius and the serpent

and wisdom because now he's urging them towards that and providing a lot of that. Lenselius says that the alethiometers originated in Prague and says the scholar who invented the first alethiometer was apparently trying and says the scholar who invented the first alethiometer was apparently trying to find a way of measuring the influences of the planets

according to the ideas of astrology. He intended to make a device that would respond to the idea of Mars or Venus as a compass responds to the idea of North. In that he failed, but the mechanism he invented was clearly responding to something, even if no one knew what it was.

And where did they get the symbols from? Oh, this was in the 17th century. Symbols and emblems were everywhere. Buildings and pictures were designed to be read like books. Everything stood for something else. If you had the right dictionary, you could read nature itself. It was hardly surprising to find philosophers using the symbolism of their time to interpret knowledge that came from saying just now about like you know fixed meetings and don't be too imaginative be a little imaginative but not too much

but I think what we said in the previous episode we were talking a little bit about where Pullman got some of these symbols and I think he said he got them same as this like looking at old texts and just was kind of inspired and you know what I have to say is give us the knights on snails from medieval manuscripts

i don't even know what they're about but they're the best i love them lancelius asks if he can see lyra use the alethiometer and he then tells her what to ask she moves the hands to the camel which means asia and then tardars the cornucopia which means kimchaka with gold mines and then Tardar's, the Cornucopia, which means Kimchatka with gold mines, and then to the ant, which means activity, then purpose, and then intention. The needle responds by trembling on dolphin, helmet, baby, and anchor, and Lyra tells them they're going to pretend to attack it, but they're not going to because it's too far away and they'd be too stretched out. they're not going to because it's too far away and they'd be too stretched out. She then explains how she figured it out and he tells her he's grateful and he won't forget that. He then asks for one more demonstration. He wants Lyra to figure out which of the sprays of cloud pine,

which most of you might know is like a very skinny branch of twigs that witches would ride on, very skinny branch of twigs that witches would ride on out of 40 other brooms is seraphina piccola's so he basically says lyra go figure out which is seraphina piccola's broomstick she figures it out on her very first try and runs around in the snow waving it around and pretending to be a witch she's like slipping into another skin here right like pan does all the time she's egyptian a semen a witch later even almost a bear yeah i i love that i think that's such a good point of how she's changing her shape in a way as much as pan is it's it's also kind of like adorable and hilarious to watch uh we love our daughter yes we've adopted

her her parents didn't deserve her true we care for her now i know oh the counts the console then asked quorum do you know who this child is quorum's like uh she's azriel's and culture's daughter and the console then pushes further he. He says that she's an innocent and then talks of her alethiometer reading abilities and how it comes from a lot of that innocence. But the consul says that the witches have spoken of her for centuries,

hearing immortal whispers from the veil between worlds. I can just imagine, I don't know, what are things just gossiping? Like, oh, have you heard about this kid today yeah absolutely and their life in all the worlds depends upon her and her fulfilling her destiny and he says that she must fulfill her destiny in ignorance of what she is doing because only in her ignorance can they all be saved crim's like i don I can get that that makes no sense but before

he can answer Lyra Bersin saying I tested the pines they don't fly for me but it's this one Lansalius is very impressed he gives her a twig broken off from the spray of pine and he says I can't give you all of this

I must use it to contact Seraphina Carter Coram then this is a great passage and i have to point this out because i'm sad all the time farter quorum touched the spray of pine as if for luck and on his face was an expression lyra had never seen before almost a longing i have a lot to talk about there in the discussion. We'll get to it. But first, the consul wishes Lyra success and watches them leave. Lyra tells Coram that the consul knew the answer about the Tartars, and Coram says he was testing her.

He says the bear was a useful tip, and they head to the depot. A man at the depot tells them the bear is off duty at six if they catch him before he goes to get drunk horam gets lyra fit in some warm seal skin clothing a parka made of reindeer skin and wolverine fur and i feel like this is an abomination for all demons truly it's very weird oh like the wearing of other skins yeah can't do that shit maybe i don't know because apparently like if animals saw a demon they wouldn't see an animal yeah like them they would see a human and i think the meaning behind that is vague i'm not sure exactly what that means i'm gonna throw it out there based on pullman not necessarily knowing uh what it meant when he

had a that guy with a demon who is the same sex as him. I'm not sure if Pullman knows what that means. I think it's deliberately like, ooh, spooky. I mean, the next passage is like talking about how his boots and mittens are made of reindeer four-leg skin and how it's tougher. Yeah.

That other skin which just to me is like interesting. Reindeer four foreleg skin? Yeah. I mean, like, that, can't eat polar bear livers. We're learning a lot here. Like, you can make a cloak out of seal intestine

to polish off the entire look, apparently. Oh, man. Yeah, she probably has to look really chubby in this, you know what I mean? Like a little bear. She must look like a roly-poly or like a furry roly-poly yeah she asks if he's ever spoken to a bear before and a bear was like i've never actually fought one by myself before not by myself thank god is what he says and i'm interested to see who fought the bears with him. Hmm.

Hmm. Interesting. They head back to the ship, where Jon Favre receives their news of the bear, and he thinks, I don't know, a bear will be surly and difficult to manage, but we have to have him. Then he asks about so, your witch,

Ferdicorum. But he doesn't seem positive like i don't know she's in a she's a clan queen now she's got her own life and she's far off and far decorum thinks also like a reply will be i don't know too long coming i'll take too long for her to get there yeah john then updates them on what he's found in this time, which is a man from the country, quote unquote, of Texas. Which is great. He's an aeronaut, and he has a balloon. He's come to steal your girl, Cora. Mr. Steal Your Girl.

Who said that? Maybe. Who said that? You said that. I didn't say that. Aliana, who is it? Who is he? I don't know. I don't know. We't know we're gonna find out we're gonna find out

soon jk everyone i assume you've read these three chapters whatever his expedition failed and he did sign up with john va to come on this one hoping for more riches and golds once the stores have been unloaded barter quorum and lyra look the Einerson's Bar, which is where they can find Eoric Burnison. And they find it, and they find Eoric. He's hunched over, gnawing at a haunch of meat with a blood-stained muzzle and face. Eoric Burnison, said Farder Coram again. May I speak to you? Lyra feels danger because the bear feels like a cold, dangerous power.

He's not like a human. He has no demon. And then Lyra just feels pity for him because he seems very truly alone. He's slumped over the gate and he's putting down his reindeer leg. Is he eating it like a fucking turkey leg or something? Yeah, dude, like from Ren Faire.

I know! Yorick Ren Faire times a thousand. Yeah, dude, like from Ren Faire. I know! Yorick Ren Faire times a thousand. When he stands, he's ten feet tall and menacing, and he's like asking them what he want, and they offer him a job! Employment! Mending! But he's like, I got a job! I'm mending

broken machinery and iron! Korm's like, that's no kind of work for a panzerbjorn. Oh, I love that, because they are a people, right? And he's separated from his people. He is, and that makes him sad. And the bartender then checks in on Yorick and his visitors, but says nothing more when Yorick lurches toward him.

It's interesting he's not cut off, because Yorick then just drinks some more booze and goes back to eating for a second. Big mood. He asks what work they have to offer him. And it's fighting and bringing back captive children. Good job. That's a good work. And he offers him gold.

But York's like, I don't want that. I already have my keep and food paid for. Horam's like, why do you work in Trollisund at Interson's Bar when you could live in a solitary life of seals and walrus or you could go to war and win great treasure? And Eeyore tells him he knows what he seeks. You seek the Childcutters. No one stops them in town as they pretend not to see. They bring good business, says. Now, I don't like the trout colors, so I

shall answer you politely. I stay here and drink spirits because the men here took my armor away. And without that, I can hunt seals, but I can't go to war. And I am an armored bear.

War is the sea I swim in and the air I breathe. The men of this town gave me spirits and let me drink till I was asleep, and then they took my armor away from me. Roar! If I knew where they keep it, I would tear it down to town to get it back. If you want my service, the price is this. Get me back my armor.

Do that, and I shall serve you in your campaign. Either until I am dead, or until you have a victory. The price is my armor. I want it back. And then I shall never need spirits again.

Roar! Did you add the roar again? I'm throwing in a few roars. It seems like the bear-like thing to do. You know, why not? I like your roar. I really do. Thank you, my roarer. Your roarer.

So what a badass last line to go out on. The price is my armor. I want it back, and then I shall never need spirits again. He's like, I will quit alcohol if you get is my armor i want it back and then i shall never need spirits again he's like i will quit alcohol if you get me my armor yeah that's a big move i mean it really is uh it's big i mean i guess he was just bored yeah and i mean like you know the bears don't usually i guess drink yeah i don't usually see bears drink in my own life. I'm going to move this up to now. I was going to do it later.

But is Eoric just the Sandor Clegane of this story? I mean, kinda, in some ways. He's just looking for his soul. He is, and he's uh protecting lyra let's move on to chapter 11 which is also very much about yorick in a few ways armor are quickly lyra determines where the armor is through the alethiometer alone lyra once more pities yorick especially his own loneliness because he doesn't have a demon and also he has no friends. She falls asleep, dreaming of Asriel's imprisonment when she suddenly wakes up with an urge

to go wear her new furs and go outside. And the aurora, as Pan kind of refers to it because Pan says it properly, fills the night sky. It's actually a roarer. The roarer.

As a pancierborn, I feel like you should know that. Yeah, that's true. I do love this passage that you pointed out, though. The sight filled the northern sky. The immensity of it was scarcely conceivable. As if from heaven itself, great curtains of delicate light hung and trembled. Pale green and rose pink and as transparent as the most fragile fabric. And at the bottom edge, a profound and fiery crimson, like the fires of hell. They

swung and shimmered loosely with more grace than the most skillful dancer. Lyra thought she could even hear them. A vast, distant whispering swish. In the evanescent delicacy, she felt something as profound as she'd felt close to the bear. She was moved by it. It was so beautiful, it was almost holy. She felt tears prick her eyes, and the tears splintered the light even further into prismatic rainbows. Damn, Phillip! No, it was so good. There was no way I couldn't include it. Yeah. No way. It was really good. And

there's so much to like in just the way that's written, but I just wanted to point out briefly instead that I like that it's- the roarer is at once described as both heavenly and then hellish. Yeah. it shows that duality so well that can be the same thing lyra falls into a similar state uh looking at the roar as she does

when she looks at the alethiometer and through that ends up seeing the city on the other side and then she sees something flying across that isn't part of the aurora and it's not part of the city wait hold on it's from here from this place it's a it's a burb it's a plane it's actually just a burb but kind of it's seraphina piccola's demon which is a goose which is named kaisa wings out bitches wings out for kaisa wings out wings out wings out we're flapping our arms here we are look animal corner is happening right now it's kaisa and kaisa is a snow goose what i mean is she's a pure white snowy goose and the goose totem is really interesting you guys it's a leadership role but it represents messengers of change uh it's valor

it's devotion it's loyalty it's inspiring it means the universe has asked this person to protect what's important to them and it's charged them with making sure that what they're trying to protect is worth protecting. And of course, there's that flock mentality involved, right? Where the goose helps to help its injured members of its flock, which we might actually see some of later. Yeah, I have an actually serious question and I didn't really look into this. I was just inspired by what you wrote is she like a mother goose?

you know how there's like mother goose and her rhymes or something yeah and you see like that negative version in Mother Gothel with Rapunzel but I think it's a positive mother goose I think it's a witch goose huh interesting I didn't know that geese meant all these things I just thought that they were like goofy I know right

you know? that's great Lyra fetches Jon Faw and Farnacor geese meant all these things. I just thought that they were goofy. I know, right? You know? That's great. Lyra fetches Jon Fah and Farnar Coram to come back, and through that we also learn that witches and their demons don't in fact feel cold while they're out there, and Coram is proud to see Kaiza once more, who sends greetings from Seraphina.

And Kaiza wants to know, so, like, is this the child of prophecy? Have you come here to make war? Just gonna say all these things right here, right now, I'm a goose, showing up. Um, so you've come- and they say, we've come to help save the children, and they inform him that they are actually hoping that the witches

will help! Yeah, I hope! I know, right? But some of the witches, turns out, are actually helping the gobblers. No! And the gobblers are, in fact, chasing dust. And then Kaisa explains dust a little bit. It comes from the sky. Some say it's always been there.

Some say it's newly falling. What is certain is that when people become aware of it, a great fear comes over them, and they'll stop at nothing to discover what it is, but it is not of any concern to witches. Like, nothing's of concern to witches, I feel like.

Yeah, they're like, I don't care about this until they're like, hmm, maybe we should have started caring about this a while ago. I'm like, oh, yeah. The dust hunters are at Bolvingar, four days northeast apparently and they're in buildings of metal and concrete and a lot of the

animals are actually afraid of it because the air around it has hatred and fear and then Kaisa has some really great info he shares about how there are unpracticed charters defending it and then Lyra Lyra's very excited, she has a question she really wants to ask Kaisa's like, alright ask it unpracticed charters defending it and then lyra lyra is very excited she has a she has a question

she really wants to ask kaisa's like all right ask it and this one question then launches into an even bigger info dump than what kaisa has been giving us already because lyra likes to ask why a lot as children do why did the witches talk about me she She said. Because of your father and his knowledge of the other worlds, the demon replied. That surprised all three of them. Lyra looked at Fardekorum, who looked back in mild wonder, and at Jon Fah, whose expression was troubled. Yeah, apparently I guess they're reacting to the idea of the other worlds here. Because here's a number of things that come out during Kaiza's info dump. Other worlds does not mean

the world of spirits, right? And the witches actually know about all these other worlds. They all overlap with one another, they're different universes, and you can't see or touch them except in the Northern Lights because the Aurora's charge makes the world's barriers thin. Dust hunters fear it,

and that's why they're imprisoning Asriel, because they fear that Asriel's making a bridge between the worlds, and Kaiza confirms, yeah, that's Asriel's goal, so it's a good thing, actually, that Lyra asks all these questions, or else we wouldn't have all this information about the plot. Yeah, and all these witches aren't united, as we're learning. Seraphina's clan hasn't chosen a side,

and a bunch of witches have chosen a side, and not the side you and I are on, my friend. The bears are also on the side of whoever pays them. There's not just one Eoric Burnison, you guys. There's a lot of them, and now the new bear king is trying to do some pretty

weird shit. And overall, they're imprisoning Asriel. And then Lyra goes, hashtag not all bears, more or less literally and then lyra goes hashtag not all bears more or less literally she literally says but not all bears and she's intent on getting this outcast lonely bear to join their gang and everyone's like i don't know if that's happening i don't know if we could do that and if he wants to join us and quorum explains yeah yorick is an indentured servant at the moment serving a sentence and lyra's like no that's not what it is the villagers lied i know this because the alethiometer told me

so they got him drunk and they stole his armor this is the saddest like i am so mad and sad for yorick and apparently when that happened he went on a rampage and he killed two men and they don't kill him because they want him to do metal work for them. And Lyra has this bit in this passage. Like a slave, Lyra said hotly. They hadn't got the right. Be that as it may, they might have shot him for the killings he'd done, but they didn't. And they bound him over to labor in the town's interest and paid off the damage and the blood money.

over to labor in the town's interest and to be paid off the damage and the blood money. John, said Fardecorum, I don't know how you feel, but it's my belief they'll never let him have that armor back. The longer they keep him, the more angry he'll be when he gets it. But if we get his armor back, he'll come with us and never bother him again, said Lyra. I promise, Lord Fah. And how are we supposed to do that? I know where it is. There was a silence in which they all three became aware of the witch's demon and his fixed stare at Lyra. All three turned to him and their own demons too, who had until then affected the extreme politeness of keeping their eyes modestly away from the singular creature, here without his body. You won't be surprised, said the goose,

to know that the alethiometer is one of the reasons the witches are interested in you, Lyra. Our consul told us about your visit this morning. I believe it was Dr. Lancelius who told you about the bear and then john is hesitant but about getting the bear and fargacorum ends up siding with lyra and then finally john faul's like all right fine we'll take a look at the bear and then decide i feel like john faul's like this sometimes we're to see it in a bit. He's a great leader and very action-oriented, and he's very balanced out well by Fargacorum. But sometimes I think he can be a little bit like Asriel.

I think even Lyra says there's similarities. Not in all the ways, but during this trip, he shows a lot more hesitancy around certain actions that seem inconvenient than he did in the Fens when he was standing up for Lyra. Here he's reluctant to help Yorick, even though it's the right thing to do, and later on he's gonna be a little reluctant to look into, like, the ghost in the

village, even though the Alethiadvers like telling them, yeah, we gotta do this. This is pretty important. His character is being played by the guy that played Salador San in Game of Thrones, and Carter Coram is being played by the guy that played Lord Commander Mormont at the Night's Watch,

Elsie Mormont. And I imagined them the other way because I just feel like Elsie Mormont could maybe do a commanding thing. But now I have to imagine him in this role. It's very interesting. So Kaisa begins to tell them how to get to Bulvanger. And Lyra daydreams about a bridge to other worlds, like she's been told. Excited about it and also her father, and she dozes off.

She awakens in her bunk and she runs out to find many of the dog teams and whatnot ready to go. Farter Quorum is talking to a sysselman, a governor, about the bear's armor and an interesting dude comes up to meet Lyra. Who is it? Who could it be? I don't know. Better read it. She looked at the newcomer with surprise.

He was a tall lead man with a thin black mustache and narrow blue eyes and a perpetual expression of distant and sardonic amusement. She felt strongly about him at once, but she wasn't sure whether it was liking she felt or dislike. His demon was a shabby hair, as thin and tough looking as he was. He held out his hand and she shook it wearily. Lee Scoresby,by he said the aeronaut she exclaimed where's your balloon can i go up in it oh my god i'd probably still react like this if i was like oh my god the balloon guy it's a fucking aeronaut with a balloon you whimsical atheist bitch philip pullman i love you oh what a good character man just him like i like I'm Lee Scoresby. You know what I think about with balloons? Do you remember I was thinking

Amanda Bynes' show Moody's Point? There was that Moody's Point and she got fucking stuck in a balloon. I enjoy it. That was Dawson's Creek knockoff. Yeah, it was. Lee Scoresby has a history with the york, doesn't he? He does. Romantic history.

It's not romantic. i made that up furry i mean there's daemons doing like stuff in this in this story we didn't put the furry undertones in this the egyptians pride themselves in playing cards and lee scoresby is like let's play cards but it's actually a distraction the rabbit rabbit, which is Scoresby's demon named Hester, comes up to a squirrel-formed pan and tells them go directly to Eoric, where the armor is, or else

the town folk are going to move it. Oh no! And so Lyra, as she does, then goes to sneak off to go see Eoric, and then she sees him amongst the metal and then feels fear i love this next part it's really a culmination of lyra's whole why not aren't i azrael's daughter until it crashes obviously and whether she likes it or not as he did so

he caught say of lyra she felt a bolt of cold fear strike at her because he was so massive and so alien. She was gazing through the chain link fence about 40 yards from him, and she thought how he could clear the distance in a bound or two and sweep the wire aside like a cobweb, and she almost turned and ran away, but Pantalamon said, stop, let me go talk to him. He was a turn, and before she could answer, he'd flown off the fence, down to the icy ground beyond it. There was an open gate a little way along, and Lyra could have followed him, but she hung back uneasily. Pantalamon looked at her, and then became a badger. She knew what he was doing. Demons could move no more than a few yards from their humans,

and if she stood by the fence and he remained a bird, he wouldn't get near the bear. So he was going to pull. She felt angry and miserable. His badger claws dug into the earth and he walked forward. It was such a strange, tormenting feeling when your demon was pulling at the link between you. Heart physical pain deep in the chest, heart intense, sadness and love, and she knew it was the same for him. Everyone tested it when they were growing up, seeing how far they could pull apart, coming back with intense relief. He tugged a little harder. Don't, Pam! But he didn't stop. The bear watched, motionless. The pain in Lyra's heart grew more and more unbearable,

and a sob of longing rose in her throat. Pan! Then she was through the gate, scrambling over the icy mud toward him, and he turned into a wildcat and sprang up into her arms, and they were clinging together tightly with little shaky sounds of unhappiness coming from them both. I thought you really would. No. I couldn't believe how much it hurt.

And then she brushed the tears away angrily and sniffed hard. He nestled in her arms and she knew she would rather die than let them be parted and face that sadness again. It would send her mad with grief and terror. If she died, they'd still be together, like the scholars in the crypt at Jordan. Then girl and demon looked up at the solitary bear. He had no demon. He was alone. Always alone. She felt such a stir of pity and gentleness for him that she almost reached out to touch his matted pelt and only a sense of courtesy toward those cold ferocious eyes prevented her that's a fucking passage and a fucking half there's no way we couldn't like read that one aloud it's i think

one of the it's like the emotional heart or one of them, right, of this chapter. We're definitely going to come back to this later in our discussion. I have so much to say, but. Oh, yeah. Wow. My heart. I know. And while we're all over here, like my heart, Yorick's like watching all this and then they show up in front of me.

He's just like, well. What's great is when I first read this, I was messaging you and I was just so upset and I was like, no, no. Is this foreshadowing? No. I was messaging you and I was just so upset and I was like no no is this foreshadowing no I was so worried that this would mean that she would have no demons someday I thought that would be like a thing

and that's I don't know I think that's like an actionable theory to have if you haven't read all the series but and they keep teasing it as a danger yeah yeah but you know, for now Lyra tells Yorick, alright,

I'm gonna help you if you help me. But first she's like, wait, why don't you just make some new fucking armor? Because she's seeing him so easily tearing through and working with a bunch of metal. Because it's worthless. Look. He said

and lifting the engine cover with one paw, he extended a claw on the other hand and ripped through it like a can opener. Ah, my armor is made of sky iron. Made for me. A bear's armor is his soul, just as your demon is your soul. You might as well take him away. Indicating, P Pentel in one, and replace him with a doll full of sawdust. That is the difference.

Now, where is my armor? You know, these three chapters have a great foundation setting up this mid-end of the book, really defining what a soul is and the different types of souls that people could have. And I feel like it's super consistent, even throughout all three of the books, as we'll come to read eventually. But I think the end of this chapter,

especially ties in with the end of the next chapter. So I'm excited about it really, truly. Yeah, I was thinking that I think it's absolutely like what's in a soul they do such a good job of setting it up in the previous one with the witch and then this one here with that pain and then yorick just now being like you might as well take him away and replace him with a doll full of sawdust right it's like not the fucking same so so good well well done lyra makes yorick promise to not take revenge he's like fine and she tells him that where it is and then that a priest is trying to exercise his armor because he thinks that there's a spirit in it which is you know adorable i guess weird very strange and then yorick says i can't go yet i gave my word to work until sunset and then Lyra's like

loophole from where I'm standing the sun is set so let's go that's interesting yes why? because from where Lyra's standing

the sun has already set like a different world even that was just an interesting turn of phrase he used I think he did it on purpose Where Lyra's standing, the sun has already set, like a different world, even. Oh. That was just an interesting turn of phrase he used. I think he did it on purpose. Yeah. Different perspectives. Different worlds.

I like that. Eorik tells Lyra he owes her a debt after he learns her real name. He bounds down the street to the cellar of the priest's house, and the sentry tries to fire shots at him, but he fucks up. He misses. And Eorik climbs into the cellar, emerges, terrifying in his now rusted armor. And he's about to, like, go crazy and flip his shit and rage. When Lyra runs over to him, she puts her hand through the gap in his armor. It's like, Eoric, you owe me a debt.

You can't fight these people. I also just realized that's the gap in the armor around his heart lyra's touching yorick's heart so they go back to the egyptian camp and yorick decides to go skinny dipping now tears off his armor and lyra's like what the fuck is he doing the villagers now they're like here they're gonna're going to steal his armor back. But of course, our boy, Lee Scoresby, has arrived. He's defending it and chastising the villagers for letting this armor rust. How dare you? And Eorik comes back with a dead seal.

And he's like, you with these people? And Lee's like, yeah, sure. I'm with this kid and like her weird friends. And the Sistleman gives Eorik permission to go with these people. And Eorik is like fuck you you're not the boss of me I don't have time for fuckboys and he finishes oiling his armor and saves the rest of the seal because he's pretty thrifty and then they leave and something is following the sleds as they leave but Lyra still falls asleep you know it's a transitional chapter

I think I mean she just does this, she did this already halfway through this chapter. Is this why I love Lyra so much? Because I'm always falling asleep and taking naps and she's always falling asleep. I don't know. At the end of this chapter, Pan tries to stay awake too with Lyra, but he falls asleep as a mouse curled up in her hood and before he falls asleep he senses someone trailing them swinging branch to branch in the trees and then the last line is he feels like he's in the mind of a monkey hmm is this horseshit are they being trailed hmm i think that's interesting i didn't notice this the first time through yeah i didn't either i didn't notice this the first time through. Yeah, I didn't either. I didn't notice this until you said it literally just now.

I'm like, it's about the monkey, right? Like, why would Pullman write about the monkey? I don't know. Yeah, and I mean, like, we already have from the previous episodes, like, chapters that the weird little TikTok bug things, one of them got away and was able to tell Clter mrs coulter like what was happening and where they were going so okay and i wouldn't be surprised you know if someone like in the town or something was like oh by the way i don't know some girl was here it wouldn't be surprising like apparently they're all like kind of paid off by the general ablation board so chapter 12 the lost boy so last episode we

talked a lot about william blake and a song of innocence and experience the multi uh multi-album book with poetic lyrics but this chapter is called the lost boy and we talked about a couple characters as the lost boy and lost girl in the story and I think this is a little more subtle, but I still think it fits. Father, father, where are you going? Oh, do not walk so fast. Speak, father, speak to your little boy or else I shall be lost. The night was dark.

No father was there. The child was wet with dew. The mire was deep and the child did weep in a way the vapor flew. Songs of Innocence by William Blake. The vapor! It flew. So sad.

When you tie it into this chapter, what happens? You're just mean, Chloe. You're being mean. The last passage, dude. There's nothing sadder. Well, no, it does get a little sadder, actually, the next few chapters. But like, oh man, what a twist. Gut wrench. I mean, like, I'm sure you guys have read it because... We're about to finish this chapter, yeah.

Yeah, you knew what three chapters we were doing, alright? They travel for hours before stopping to eat, and Jon Fah asks Lyra to ask the alethiometer about Bovinger's defense and Lyra watches it calmly tells him it's just like Kaizad said there are tartars guarding the station with wires around it

and they don't actually expect to be attacked but it's telling her something else too that there's a village by a lake that's being troubled by a ghost Jon Fah says that doesn't matter now and impatiently asks how many telling her something else too, that there's a village by a lake that's being troubled by a ghost. Jon Faw says that doesn't matter now and impatiently asks how many men are there? And she's like, there are 60 with rifles, with large guns and cannons

and they got wolf demons. This causes a stir. And Faw says, alright, we're gonna have to fight like tigers and consult the bear for this battle. Man, they have no clue what they're up against in bowl of anger no they don't that's what's so rough about this but lyra is impatient through all this she's like what if this ghost is one of the kids and oh it's a reminder right this is lyra's

mission uh these these men are going off to save these children but lyra's goal is to save her friend and find her friend she's very one-track minded she's a kid while all these frivolous things like witches and bears are adding to her story all these people are tied to this cause for a reason and so is she yeah i mean it really gives us a sense of lyra's justice because like yeah there's a lot of curiosity behind it as you said and that this is like her mission right she's trying to find her friend there's also i think righteousness in her believing that this is one of the ghosts and this could be one of the kids and we have to find them

and i think we see a lot of that righteous indignation on her part even earlier in the previous chapter like when she's pleading with the others like we have to free yorick from his slavery like lyra's not the kind of person who does the right thing because she can do it she isn't always sure that she can do it right but by god she's gonna try she's gonna try to move heaven and earth now like to try and do the right thing and of course she strays right i mean dr lincelia said she has to be allowed to stray and make mistakes and she's gonna because like she's what 11 but i think it is very characteristic of lyra that it's so and it's so important to her story and it guides a lot of her actions later on yeah she's i don't want to say the axnellum martyr by the end you know what i mean i don't know if that's a good

term for it but it's interesting everything she goes through and what she hangs on to as far as like what she believes in yeah she does she does move heaven and earth try to make things right and it's weird because you don't understand where she got this moral compass from right like i know her dad is as real her mom is coulter And the Amber Spyglass answers a couple of those moments for us deep down of like, okay, this is who she actually is. Because these characters aren't these caricatures of like villainry. They do have some nuance. And we will get into that someday. But first, of course, let's go back to Jon Fah, who doesn't know what they could do, even if they could do something.

And he goes to speak to Lys Goresby while Lyra goes off to chat with Eorik. And she asks him how far to the village. He says it's too far for her, but not far for him. Because I'm a bear. An armored bear, a pantsierborn. Oh. She tells him she understands that Lord Fah is busy, but she has to find out what this is from with alethiometer, with the ghost child, because she needs to know what the gobblers are really doing. He says he can take her, but he's given his word to Lord Fa that he will only obey Lord Fa.

Lyra asks John to allow her to go, saying it's like before with the chameleon, that she didn't understand until it was too late. So he has to let her go, obviously. And Fardercorm and Jon Fah are like, Sai, you're such a little girl. And Lee Scoresby pipes up and he's like, Eorg is loyal and he's strong and he's fast and he'll protect her. This is like not that related to anything, but I just like the language that Lee Scoresby says here,

because he goes like as for speed he can lope for hours without tiring and I just like that they're describing the way that Yorick moves his loping later on they come back to it like when they start actually going they're like and Yorick loped like quickly or I don't know

it's like a bad Pokemon phrase it's like Yorick is loping around it's so good lope l. It's like Eoric is loping around. It's so good. Lope. Loping. That's it. Midwest lope. It was so important to me in that moment to bring that out.

Lyra basically promises to behave, and Jon Fah asks her if the symbol reader is playing a fool on her, and she swears that it isn't. So then Jon Fah commands him, all right, go, bring back this new knowledge, and then catch up, because we have to keep moving. And as they're

going, Lyra tells Yorick, there's actually no need for you to bring your armor, it's gonna slow you down, as there aren't any soldiers in the village. So off they go, and then the roarer is over their heads. Lyra wants to talk to Yor york but she's like uh i don't know and she feels shy for the first time in her life and then she has to like actively ride him yes she does lewd chloe stop this is bear dad and our little girl

on a non-lead note lyra finds herself having to consider herself for the first time. And it's not going to be the last because, you know, that sense of self-awareness is going to be a big part of this story, especially with like puberty and shit. He tells her to look up at one point at the roarer. Thank you. And the stars are bright as diamonds. There's hundreds of black shapes, though, flying against them. It's not a bird. It's not a plane shapes, though, flying against them. It's not a bird.

It's not a plane. It's witches flying to war. Yes. Yorick says he's fought for witches before, and that if they're flying to aid enemies, maybe we should all be afraid. But before then, they reach the outside of the village, and Lyra unbounds Yorick. She's freezing cold, and Yorick says, so is this child

outside? Hopefully they have shelter. Yeah, but Lyra thinks something different is actually happening here than that. The lithiometer had indicated something uncanny and unnatural, which was alarming. But who was she? Lord Asriel's daughter. And who was under her command? A mighty bear. How could she possibly show any fear?

I thought that was so interesting because we know where Asriel is being held. He's being held and in our minds, he's guarded by armored bears and he has to have a lot of strength to pull from right now, right? Yeah, he's being held captive by bears. But now she's like, I got a bear. Look at me. They they go to investigate what's going on and dogs are howling at the activity in the village. Reindeer are moving about nervously at their presence, and the Aurora, thank you, is fading. And Lyra's like, I see pale faces in all the windows. A man comes out suddenly, holding a rival, and his Wolverine demon is beside him, an animal corner.

demon is beside him and animal corner wolverines have a lot deeper meanings generally but in this instance they can be regarded as brave ferocious in self-defense and in dreams it can be a premonition regarded with evil or negative energy even interesting huh lyra immediately slips between yorick and the man who's come out you know getting in between them because she told Yorick that he wouldn't need his armor oh Lyra she like immediately snakes herself between the two good girl yeah she is it says a lot about her character like you were saying earlier that

the level of sacrifice she won't accept from her friends even though people are being loyal and helpful towards her she just she hates that extra burden it's it's a consistent character trait for her going forward, right? That she does the right thing no matter what. She at least definitely tries to. Yeah.

The man, though, speaks in a different language that turns out Yorick speaks. And Yorick explains they think that we're devils. And Lyra tells him, actually, well, that is actually kind of interesting. Come back to that lyra tells him that actually we're friends and we're looking for a strange ghost child and the man points off to the side saying that we keep trying to drive it away but the child keeps coming back and she's like that's pretty shitty if it's a kid the man tells yorick the child is in a fish house so off they go lyra's pretty fucking nervous but doesn't want to let Yorick see her fear. He had spoken of mastering his fear.

That was what she'd have to do. I love that line. I think it's a really strong bit of the book. It has a lot of Lyra's overarching themes. I just thought we should bring it up. I think that's a good point, and as we're going to see in a moment, I think part of it has to do with like lyra allows her compassion to overcome her fear like her compassion for others as we've been talking about is what makes her brave yes han is being absolutely no help he's

just floating around she's like be a bat and go look for me but he's in his ear mind shape and he's running around frantically she's only seen him like this when her and roger were in the basement with souls hmm interesting interesting eoric is lying in the snow and pan begs lyra don't go further lyra bravely pushes into the building asking for the child to come out an old man comes from the village with a lantern and tells eoric that it's not the only child of this kind he's seen them dying in the forest often and that this one is tough, but dying would be better for him. Uh, so then Lyra asks to borrow the man's lantern and thanks him. And Lyra's like, oh shit, what if it's Roger? She lifts the lantern high and took a step into the shed and then she saw

what it was that the oblation board was doing. What was the nature of the sacrifice children were having to make? The little boy was huddled against the wood drying rack where hung row upon row of gutted fish, all as stiff as boards. He was clutching a piece of fish to him as Lyra was clutching Pana Laman with her left hand, hard against her heart. But that was all he had, a piece of dried fish, because he had no demon at all.

The gobblers had cut it away. That was intercision, and this was a severed child. What an ending. Yeah, it's a good one, dude. I'm like shivers. Yeah. And this was a severed child. What an ending. Ah! Ah! Yeah, it's a good one, dude. I'm like shivers. Yeah.

Ugh. The way this reveal is structured, because, I don't know. Sorry that we're ending on this part for this episode. It's hard not to stop, I think, the story from here on out. Especially if you're reading it the first time. It's just so good. This is where I kept going. And you didn't story from here on out. Especially if you're reading it the first time. It's just so good. This is where I kept going. And you didn't stop from there on.

No, you don't stop! You can't. Once you pop, you don't stop. It's like Pringles. It shows, like, I don't know, the fear and that horror because so much of it has been set up in those past few chapters to lead up to this moment, and it all just, like, pays off. You know,incelius

said that people called it the maestad process or intercision right to avoid having to say what it really is and i think speaks to a lot of that power of language because these terms are very clinical in that the people at bol van gerd like use them shows that they know what they're doing is horrible but they're willing to do it anyway. They're just trying to downplay it and remove the feeling from it, and that's why it's pertinent that the way that last line is structured goes

this was intercision, and this was a severed child because that language of severed shows that this is in fact violence that's being inflicted upon these children versus those cold clinical terms from the supposedly like more educated or enlightened folk it's supposed to be disgusting yeah it's supposed to make you feel awful it's supposed to make you

feel like chilled to your bones that this is happening to children intercision is happening to children it's not a a delightful elevated like pray to god about it act yeah and and they do a good job of setting this up of like how horrible this is it wouldn't i think work as well if we hadn't seen the disgust on everyone else when they were talking about the witch not having a demon right that it was like seeing a body with no head it was very much these three chapters put together yeah and that's how we know how we're supposed to feel about this moment and then i don't know i feel like there's something going on with the fish here maybe it's poetic maybe it's not because like that boy's demon is not a fish that's a dead fish and

it makes me think of like the nature of the people right and their demons and like earlier lyra was pondering that near the water like what's a fish you know out of water it's a natural it's wrong it's dead and that's very much like what this child is right now right a fish out of water on its way towards death and like he's clutching the wrong thing to his chest and he's forcing it to be him. And it's kind of that perversion of that earlier idea of what it means to have a demon that you feel discontented with or disconnected with in many ways. Yet somehow, even though he's trying to force it, it still is him, but it's not. There's this weird like tension going on there. Yeah. And we're going to talk a lot more about

who this person is as we get into the next chapter but i think this means it's time to go into our discussion aliana where oh talk about the stuff that chloe has read anything from the northern light slash golden compass all the way up to of course the andrew spyglass i am on the very last chapter you spoiled yourself i just spoil it mostly but i still cried like a little bit so yeah it's it doesn't get any easier all right so the discussion let's talk about this line that you have here for us chloe you wanted wanted to come back to? Farder Coram touched the spray of pine as if for luck, and on his face was an expression Lyra had never seen before. Almost a longing.

Yeah, that's... It's hard because when you know who Seraphina Picala is and that they had two children together, they just could never be together. They were from separate worlds, Eliana. Yeah. How do you feel about people from separate worlds aliana well i feel pretty fucking sad about them all right like will and lyra yeah okay okay you guys like did i already tell the story on this podcast of when i finished rereading it i was fucking devastated because I had not slept in like 24 hours

I was devastated after that after like not getting any sleep so yeah still devastated I think it hurts more now imagine being Serafina like and it makes sense right when Serafina's all like I don't know

she has to live forever yeah we're gonna come back to that too we're gonna learn so much more about seraphina especially about seraphina and farter quorum and it's interesting because there is a friendship between seraphina and lee scoresby and we're definitely gonna talk about that because it's my favorite thing in the world but it's sad because everything in this chapter with Farder Coram you can assume he's saying he and Seraphina did together right like when he's like oh I've never fought a bear alone yeah who do you think fought that bear with him

I mean it would make sense for it to be Seraphina there's a lot of like old friends reuniting we have it with lee scores be right and and yorick here but like it's sad when you don't see them reuniting with farter quorum and seraphina this and tying back to like will and lyra it reminds me there's this description in in chapter 12 of lyra reading the alethiometer by the roaror's light and it's like the moon itself had long set the light from the aurora was brighter than moonlight but it was inconstant and so a quick aside

as Lyra becomes more conscious and adult she begins to lose the ability to like read the alethiometer and thinks it's because of the lighting but here we see she's reading it pretty well in fucking shit lighting so that's a tip off anyway that description of like the aurora is brighter and described as inconstant sandwiched within like language of the moon i'm probably

reading too much into this and i'm just inspired by like logan blizzard's tweet about chameleons and shakespeare earlier but it does remind me of one of the many iconic lines from Romeo and Juliet during the balcony scene. And Juliet goes, Oh, swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon that monthly changes in her circle orb, lest that thy love prove likewise variable. And I think Lyra and Will's love, it doesn't

prove variable, but this language of the inconstant moon aurora with Romeo and Juliet, and Lyra and Will being ill-fated lovers after all very star-crossed, yes yeah different stars entirely

fuck with the Shakespearean reference of thy love prove likewise variable there's all these variables they both have to change, right? and they both have to some of them, as they go on in their story are variables they can change and some of these variables cannot change especially with their ending and well Lyra's going on to find her

friend she goes from having a cause finding Roger to losing that drive and actually becoming the cause eventually Lyra's super impatient in all this right she's like what if this ghost is my friend that's what that's the mission she's on this is her mission like we said and it's easy to forget that because the gyptian mission is a bigger overarching mission right saving the children yeah i mean a lot of people rally around her and her destiny. And I don't know. I'm so sad about Roger. This chapter absolutely sets up Roger.

Yeah, for sure. It does, especially with all of her idolizing Asriel in all these. And she's like, yeah, I like him. And she's super excited about this bridge to the new world. She's like, oh, my father's brilliant's brilliant he's gonna do a great job and then we see like oh intercision and you're like it's interesting that these things are being introduced so close to each other yeah and and and the old man comes from the village right with his lantern and she's like let me borrow your lantern thank you and she thinks the whole time what if that child is roger yeah bro it is in a bit yeah and the worst part is you know she leads him to it well and

interestingly enough it's like that three punch right um it kicks you in the gut it he does a great job building this that soul talk and when you get to Amber Spyglass, it makes you that emotional. When Will and Lyra exit the cave, you have it here when she figures out about the intercision. Then you have it when she's almost intercised. And then when she has to part to go to the underworld with Pan. Yeah. And it's interesting because the language there is all like, she to herself she would never ever part from Pan and never do that again.

Then she fucking does. She has to. I mean, that's the thing. Lyra's not just about inconveniencing other people, right? Like Jon Favreau and Fargo Farmer are like this is pretty fucking inconvenient for us. And she's like

out here doing what's probably the most inconvenient fucking thing ever. Very, very painful thing. And she's taking it upon herself. She, like, could die down there. She coulda. And, like, completely failed at everything. Which, like, during that time, it's very interesting because she tells Will, she's like, I think this is what I'm meant to do. Because it turns out it's funny, in this chapter, when she's, like, itching to ask K because she tells Will, she's like, I think this is what I'm meant to do. Because turns out it's funny in this chapter when she's like itching to ask Kaisa a question.

She's like, why did the witches talk about me? And that's a tip off that like Lyra was eavesdropping on the conversation Farder Coram and Lanselius were having. That's an interesting one. Because she tells Will, she's like, yeah, I overheard them. Turns out I was spying as I do and like as a last thing I think it's interesting coming back to that part with Lyra and

Pan you know she thinks that in death you know A they're never going to part again and B even if we had died out of grief like we would be together like the scholars of Jordan and their demons were in death but then we see later on in the scholars of jordan and their demons were in death but then we see later on in the amber spyglass uh wait that's a lie that's not what fucking happens

because for a long ass time until lyra came along the dead were actually apart from their demons and like that's part of lyra going into the underworld where all the dead must eventually go must eventually go it's like that cruel blow when they leave their demons behind instead of like the relief of unification they're like fuck what is this place this place sucks and like i never circled back to this in earlier episodes um i'd called out it was kind of strange that in the version of books that i have there's a scholar who has a demon that has a human form, and it's like a woman. And I asked about this actually on the His Dark Materials subreddit, and they're like, oh, that was just a mistake and removed in later versions, which is why it wasn't in

another version that I was looking at. And I have this headcanon though that maybe like, this is totally a tinfoil and a headcanon, that that guy maybe was, like, from another world also, and rather than it being his demon, that was, like, his death, as we see in one of the worlds in the Amber Spyglass, people like, run around with their deaths kind of close to him.

I don't know. As far as death goes, I feel like there's so many omens of it, especially when you get to the literal ferryman of death as we get into Amber's spyglass. You know, like that was a straight up like, oh, the ferryman of death come to take you to your fate. So I feel like there's a lot of stuff there, but I'm excited to get into that stuff eventually. It's so far off. It's like months and you're like, fuck it, we're gonna talk about it now.

Well, yeah. It's, especially in all the talk we had in this episode of her separating from Pan, right? We didn't talk about it at depth, but there is a moment where Lyra has to say good boy to good boy. Say goodbye. Good boy! Pan is a good boy.

Say goodbye to that part of her, right? Yeah, Pan. That good boy goodbye. That part good boy! Say goodbye to that part of her, right? Yeah, Pan, that good boy, goodbye, that part. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. There's also other things we do want to talk about regarding Lee and Yorick and other characters, but we're gonna come back to those later on. We gotta leave

you guys hanging. Gotta leave some other content for other episodes. Yeah, this discussion was definitely shorter than the past couple. And I think that's good. I think that means that we're rolling along with the punches and we'll be back soon for our discussion to be nice and thick with two C's. Oh. Is it like Dumbo?

Thick. I don't know. So the next episode we're going to be doing is episode five of His Dark Materials. We're going to be covering more chapters in Bolden Anchor. It'll be 13, 14, and 15. It will. And of course, as we said earlier on, you know, we do have a Patreon episode coming out this month that is about A Song of Ice and Fire. But next month we are looking to do something a little more dark and materialistic. Okay, Madonna.

We'll talk about that way more later. That will be available next month, eventually, at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. Stay tuned for some fun bits of that. And if you want to keep up with when those new bits come out, be sure to subscribe to us on social

media you can find us at girls gone canon on twitter but maybe you want to i don't know send us your episode of girls gone canon or anything else you can find us at girls gone canon at gmail.com maybe you'll be the next last minute email right before the episode that lights up my life. Make sure that you have subscribed to us on your podcast app of choice, whether it's Google Play, Spotify, iTunes, Oh Stitcher, Acast, Overcast, Hodbean, any of those. Check it out.

Give it a Google. You'll find us. We are on there. All right, everyone. We'll see you around. I think our next episode for his dark material should be sometime early october yes absolutely so stay tuned for that i have been one of your hosts chloe and i've been another one of your hosts eliana thanks guys goodbye