Girls Gone Canon Cast - His Dark Materials Series 2 Episode 4 - Tower of the Angels

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

There's trouble in Paradise for Mr. Paradisi as Lyra and Will work on Lord Boreal's request to retrieve a knife. Will pays a high price to fulfill his destiny. In another world, Lee meets a man of many names.    Music links mentioned from Fred:  Morricone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYI09PMNazw Scoresby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDbMKp8HZHI The Dust Podcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/thedustpodcast   Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dust-a-his-dark-materials-podcast/id1466312718   (Apologies on the audio this week - Eliana accidentally used the wrong microphone :X )   --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro: Waltz Of The Skeleton Keys by WombatNoisesAudio | https://soundcloud.com/user-734462061

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Watches His Dark Materials, Series 2, Episode 4, Tower of the Angels. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And I appreciate Chloe's commitment to saying Series 2 instead of Season 2. Listen, I know I was... This is a big confession, and it may not come as a shock because I've mentioned it very often recently, but I was a Whovian, a Doctor Who fan. A Doctor Who stan, the kids would say.

I don't need to tell you how extreme of a Whovian I was. I was not a super Who-lock. I was not one of those kids, but I was very into Doctor Who, and I was very good at calling it serious then, so I can change. I... I can learn old tricks. I don't know if I can change.

I'm trying to do this, you know, to be inclusive. You know if I can change. I'm trying. I'm trying to do this. You know, to be inclusive. You know, I already have my accent and my perspective and seeing Series 2 is a good compromise, I suppose. That's globalism, right? When I say Series 2. Oh my god. Series 2.

You better settle down. There's only going to be one currency by the end of this episode. It's basically a trade agreement, to be honest. It's basically NATO. Hey, and that is why our defense budget is so large, because we deal with a lot of the stuff for NATO, Eliana. But we'll talk about defense budgets. Actually, we literally will be mentioning them in this episode. First, we have some housekeeping to do some very quick minor housekeeping we'll start it off with the announcement of this month's special patron episode Eliana what is our patreon special episode tell me what it is tell tell everyone at home if they were a patron of ours in the stranger tier

and above what would they expect I am so excited for this episode and i think it's very i know i know i know it's so special all right so enough enough uh drum roll we are going to be analyzing the music of especially series two good commitment good commitment of his dark materials with matt Matt and Holly from the Dust podcast and they are experts on music so you know what if you want a more in-depth look especially as things are going on like go check them out but they will be joining us for our patron episode to be talking about you know how the how the music intersects with the story and all the different like devices that I'm so excited yeah I think we're gonna choose a good handful of moments to talk about across the show and a couple of

different musical motifs I'm excited to nerd out with Matt a little bit and with Holly and you know we've actually been really good friends with them just in online kind of acquaintance right since the old Game of Thrones A Song of Ice and Fire Wars. But Matt has a blog where he discusses the episodes as they came out on Game of Thrones on his audio review blog. And Holly, of course, is very prevalent, very prevalent in what we call Twitteros. So it's great to see them in Twittergaze and really excited to get them onto our Patreon. So that should be out toward the end of the month.

We'll have a better look at that as we get past the holiday. We will also be having a special guest on for our series two, His Dark Materials finale, and we'll be announcing that soon, soon in the future. Stay tuned for that. And that date for that episode will also be to be announced. It might not be on our usual Monday, but we will make sure to put out a reminder and let you know as we get closer. We are going to try to put it out that day but we are doing what we can and

as Chloe said we will keep you all of course abreast of not only the date of release but also at some point. I'm excited for this guest also. I'm just excited for all of our guests. Me too. We were just joined this week

by our friend Quinn from Quinn's Ideas for our Song of Ice and Fire coverage, so it's a good month. Keep the good street going. Keep the good street going. Dustcember. Dustcember! Oh my god, yes! It is Dustcember! Maybe we should call

the episode that I'm into it I might be into it that might be what we call it December well stay tuned we'll announce that soon but there's more gifts speaking of the next thing to deliver to your doorstep is that we will have a

LaBelle Sauvage episode out a little early for you a little before some holiday shenanigans this month. Episode four of Lebel Savage, The Books of Dust, will be out for public on December 18th. The chapters are still to be announced, but we'll let you know which ones we're covering very soon. They are dense chapters. And of course, Lebel Savage, as many of you have heard, is the prequel-ish book to His Dark Mater dark materials so if you are following and a fan of his dark materials and have not picked up the books of dust la belle

sauvage is the first of the book of dust uh trilogy yeah it's a companion trilogy a sandwich trilogy a sandwich if you've read la belle sauvage, you'll be familiar with our discussions, if you're listening along with us, where we talk and spoil the other book of dust, which is The Secret Commonwealth. Eliana's not quite finished with it yet, but she is in route. She is on the route. She's on the move. This is an infuriating journey. It is an infuriating, frustrating route that stops and pisses you off. And then it gets good.

It gets so good for a second you're like okay okay and then it does something else stupid and that's okay it's a good book though ish there's some stuff so we'll get into that eventually i can't wait to cover those with you but in our labelle sauvage episodes bit by bit eliana's having these ideas and i'm like wow yeah but we do things a little different here right for our television coverage so for spoilers because you know they are playing things interestingly and doing some great groundwork and foreshadowing in the television series there's a lot of benches everywhere as people have pointed out we are covering and spoiling anything from the entire main trilogy any of the the three

books from his dark materials as we discuss these television episodes and maybe light hints at the book of dust but nothing too spoilery and we are not going to have and we do also cover some information from the three small novellas which are lyra's Oxford, Once Upon a Time in the North, and Serpentine, which was, you know, I think heavily alluded to in one of the previous episodes with Dr. Lincelius. So we are going to be talking about that, but there is probably not going to be a discussion, right, which is more in our book coverage where we read along with the books as they go and then cover things later so yeah so we're getting toward the middle end of series two which means we're not far from series three we're already seeing some minor amber spyglass themes coming to the screen i'm sure we're gonna see a handful more moving forward it seems some plots are gonna accelerate so why not dig in Eliana what was your favorite part I've been dying to know okay so I think my favorite part is actually I think a little

more serious this time I as you all know have been just waiting for Mr. Paratisi this entire season and I love the moment where you know will kind of like falls into him they played a little differently with the you know he realizes his fingers were cut right away as opposed to in the books and then mr paradisi also sees it and you see that significance and it's and then he tells he realizes what it means and he's like fight boy fight and then will comes in and like does his boxing and i'm like but like the the mr paradisi just like connecting with him in that moment and rooting for him like yes yes the bear together that's my favorite part how about you chloe well i would like to say i love that because that scene

i know one of our buddies on our discord over at our patron discord, Pete, he was kind of a little bummed out. He was like, well, it was a little kiddish. It was a little kid's play, but it was also fun. So it was totally like, you know,

karate kid style moment. Like, Oh, you're now the one you're the bear. Get in there, go get your destiny kid fight. And like, you have these bloody stumps on your hands and just get in there.

It felt like there was a little cheese to it, but I felt like it was necessary cheese. You know what what i mean like it's what you expect from your youth fantasy of course this is the way it's adapted and i think it worked really well with the environment of the tower i thought it was good i mean i think that the way that you know we'll discuss more tulio came in i was like what but like yeah all in all like the fight scene was really good well choreographed i'm sure like i don't know know how often any of them have done action scenes, so this is really exciting for them as young actors, in my opinion. We know that Daphne Keene has a lot of experience with action scenes,

and I loved her and Logan. It was a good standout moment, absolutely, for our young William. Yes, and semi-young tulio semi-young oh not younger than me tulio i really worry about that kid eliana would say i do i'm worried about a lot of kids well my favorite part eliana is actually connected to you wow i'm worried about me i'm worried about you too all the time but you know no this is it was so weird so i saw the episode before you we had just recorded last week's episode uh so the previous episode episode three we had just recorded and i went and i was so happy to go get on my merry way and watch the episode. And I think you went to go eat some food because you were starving.

And so I watched the episode and Mary's talking to the computer, aka to Zephania, as we'll come up and talk about. And Metatron's cube flashes on the screen. And literally like three weeks prior, two weeks prior, you had sent me a message asking if I knew about Metatron's cube and like giving me a minor explanation about it. And I looked it up and I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting. And you just brought it up randomly. And it came on screen and I freaked out. It was so exciting. It is a mystical three dimensional cube that was used by the Archangel Metatron to watch over the flow of energy connecting Earth and the divine and it basically

is the building blocks of creation in all physical matter that's what it depicts so it was really exciting just to see a Metatron reference no we'll uh we'll leave that for series three for more of that because that's going to be fun to come but to see a Metatron reference so early in the show yeah mind blown mind is blown it was yeah blown. It was. Yeah. So you had said to me, like, you asked me, you were like, what was that thing that you said again? I sent you the picture. I was like, isn't this a Metatron's cube? And you're like, yeah, I was like, just making sure. Double checking. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, totally. And then I was like, interesting that she's asking me. And then I watched the episode and I saw it. And then I was

like, oh, yeah, that's why. And so actually actually the way that i learned about metatron's cube is very fascinating of course we know metatron from the book three but so i was here opening up right my again hbo again HBO season 2 not this again not fucking this again giveaway box that I paid for with all of my personal identifying information and giving it to a random link on twitter that I replied to

and went and unprotected my tweets for just a brief moment so I could get that box. I want my blanket. I just want my blanket. I'm not, like, trying to be a bitch about it. It's just I actually kind of got a little worked up last week when you were describing how nice it was to watch the episode

with your blanket and your popcorn while Lyra and Pan had popcorn. And I was just like, I didn't get to watch the episode with your blanket and your popcorn while lyra and pan had popcorn and i was just like i didn't get to watch the episode from my blanket so i entered they said i won and it never came i'm so sorry still and it is blanket mother now and you know you might have had great insights like me had you gotten this giveaway box because within the giveaway box again were these three boxes of candy not the only one who got this at least like what 600 other people in the united states or something right how many boxes do they have something like that got this and they had these these three little plastic cubes filled with candy and one had a bunch of again gummy bears that were kind of like polar bears one had a bunch of little gummy rainbows and i'm a sucker for that shit

it's the aurora borealis i'm all about summer gummies sour gummies that's my thing and then one of them was full of these little like cookie dough balls covered in chocolate and i thought that was maybe like reminiscent of dark matter and especially because it was in this cube and so I was googling things around dark matter and cubes and I actually had confused it with a different idea which has to do with I think cubic crystalline structure which had nothing to do with this but that's what was the image in my head and I was like mixing up ideas by accident but what I did see as I was searching was this term metatron's cube and I was like mixing up ideas by accident but what I did see as I was searching was this term Metatron's cube and I was like that

seems significant and then that it came up in this episode feels like it really paid off thank you HBO candy box it is in fact a specter killer a pun that I thought I came up with and did not sigh

yeah no I'm glad it led to your happiness it's all that matters to me so I thought I came up with and did not. Yeah, no, I'm glad it led to your happiness. It's all that matters to me. So that was my favorite moment, your happiness while you're wrapped up in your blanket eating your Metatron's candy with your Metatron's cubes. Hope you have fun. Hope you enjoyed your popcorn, Paddington.

I did. Oh wait, there was another significant Paddington thing that someone pointed out. We should bring it up. Yes, it was. Turns out this is, like, way more significant than we all thought. On October 30th, before the entirety of Series 2 even aired, Edu Cabanas on Twitter tweeted a picture of paddington bear with his like fucking little red hat and then like blue jacket thing and holding a briefcase and lyra wearing

on almost the exact same outfit from series one yeah when she was in Trollocin, right? Yes! And I was like, what? Mind blown. Amazing. So Metatron's cube ain't shit. It's all about Paddington. It's not Paddington. I didn't even know Paddington was just so

significant. I love that they commit to some bits. We commit to bits, but I love when they do. Publicly commit to bits. I love that they commit to some bits. We commit to bits, but I love when they do. They publicly commit to bits. I love that, so, Eduardo Cabanas' tweet is in Portuguese, but they're saying, guys, I know my obsession with Paddington is a little out of control,

and I'm glad that it is, but I also am like, I didn't know that there were obsessions with Paddington also. So. Well, that's what we're about to get into if we watch Paddington. So maybe when we're bereft of this series, when we're missing it, we'll get into it. Yeah.

I want to preface this episode and just say that I know I went into seeing this episode with some low feelings. It wasn't like I don't think I was really disappointed, disappointed. I just wasn't feeling the last episode on first watch. And it got better the second or third time that I watched that episode three. But I went into episode four after my first watch where I was just like, OK, I was whelmed. It was an episode. It was good, but I was whelmed.

And I went into episode four and oh, my God, this episode knocked me on my ass. This episode took me out to dinner, made me dance the whole entire night. And then it took me home. And let me just tell you, we slammed that bedroom door shut. Oh, wow. Okay. Like this episode night, we even got a little lewd, which we'll talk about. We did.

Yes. This episode, this intro, this intro was amazing. We started with Zephania and she's narrating the knife's history and we're seeing the knife being forged we're seeing this glowing ember it's amazing we even see some floating dust beautiful yeah it feels very much like a video game opening narration which I'm into that that works for me but it did feel I thought of the Dark Souls opening and it's definitely not at all really like that but in a way

it kind of is in vibes I guess it's a Lord of the Rings kind of feel people have said too right with the forging it's very similar shot wise I guess but Dark Souls too Eliana it's very Dark Souls as well of course you know me my Dark Soul but Dark souls too, Eliana. It's very dark souls as well. Of course. You know, me, my dark soul.

But yes, of course, we get a lot of great backstory. Some of it is a little more detailed, right, than in the books, which is 300 years ago that the philosophers created the knife, which can cut through worlds. It's tucked away in the Tori Deleongeli. It was used for greedy purposes. And then, interestingly, they give this and kind of draw that connection very linearly that it released the specters.

They wait for the true wielder of the knife to save them all. We get a really beautiful shot of Chittagatsi. It's a haunting shot. It's this dark aerial pan over the city with these glowing lights and the specters are creeping around like ghosts, ghastly smoke. It's amazing. Really beautiful, really detailed. There's a really cool slow zoom to on this miniature of Chidagatse that's sitting in the tower, obviously, like it's very obviously a miniature of the entire city, but it's in the tower. So it's kind of like a little inception-y

for a second. And we get a few more details that are handed to us. Like there's a book that they go through and we see about two pages. The first page of the book has some scroll work and the details show a page that has the mark of the bearer as kind of a logo within a sunburst. There's a bird that looks kind of like an eagle, almost like Jopari's osprey. And below it, there's a crescent moon turned upward and a banner and the banner. I want you to know I got played. I was really interested in the banner. You know me, I take things too far. I'm like, let me go in on this detail and zoom in and try to read something that there's no reason for me to read it. Like i was good at math and science uh joel collins the designer design director you know he did a q a and i asked what were some of the equations that were on the board that you could see and he was like oh some are just like

graffiti you know some are just like nothing and i'm like if i knew math and science if i was a scholar i would have wasted a lot more time on that but i make other people waste their time on it that's what i do like everyone help well i got played this time i figured it out and i think it's from the lorem ipsum uh or from a generator of it which is dummy text from the printing and typesetting industry. It's been the industry's standard dummy text since like the 1500s. An unknown printer took a galley of type and scrambled it and made a specimen book and it survived like only five centuries, but then leaped into electronic typesetting.

And it basically has it's gone unchanged. There's a few versions of it that have gotten changes and like little pieces of humor added in. But it's basically garbage text. However, there are some words here that I was trying to decode. So what I was trying to decode, and I'm rubbish. I can't do Latin. That's your job, Eliana, just so you know, usually. And you're not good either.

You're not great either. But I'm just saying you're better than I am. But so the words I could kind of make out were bomoda, which is Portuguese for good, but there is no other, the words break apart maybe. Again, this doesn't matter because I got played. There's mecenis is one, which is of Italian and patron of the arts or sometimes seen as benefactor,

but also could mean angel depending on its use I found which I was like oh so at least that was like a less random word there's pecumsar which has latin roots meaning to feed or nourish and then lacus which is latin for hole or opening so I mean they had something going on it could have been about you know cutting open holes angels yada yada who knows I don't know I don't know but I got played it's all just fake words I mean just fake words speaking of people getting played you know the other episode we were discussing because my partner raised the question how did Lord Boreal find out about the knife right and we were all like yeah it could have worked out like this, and then turns out, like, they showed it to us,

and I just forgot that one of the priests, one of the fathers told him the magisterium, and we see it in that flashback right before the episode, and I was like, oh, yes, that's right, that happened, so. Anyway. Hey, that's life, you know what? And we're having fun, and that's what matters. We are having fun, but you know who's not having fun? Angelica's father, maybe, probably, who's getting attacked by the specters in the scene as well.

Yeah, assumedly that's who it is. So bummer. Sad. You see her standing there. I think we see Paula kind of blurred out next to her. I feel bad that Paula hasn't gotten as much screen time. I feel bad that Paula hasn't gotten as much screen time. I know, I'm surprised at that too. It makes sense, but I'm just like, well, we'll get into more Where Are the Children soon, because I'm feeling like that is empty for me. But I digress. First intro.

And then we skyrocket away after that, and we get to Will and Lyra watching the tower, trying to figure out how to get into it. We catch Will's eye. He's watching the tower slash watching Tulio in the tower. And it's interesting. There's these overlaying. The window design has these circles that are overlaying on each other, and they remind me of the world stacked together in the intro. Yes, definitely. And, you know, again,

love the design of the tower. And there's a lot of thought and detail going into all of that. We also spoke about tessellations and MC Asher in previous episodes and its impact on the design of the city. And I think that comes through. There's actually a very clearly like tessellating pattern

on these like iron fences on the balcony that Will and Lyra are on. Very, very clearly like tessellating pattern on these like iron fences on the balcony that will and lyra are on very very clearly quite like that so love that uh then we move over to lee scoresby searching for stanislaus grumman yes big labelle savage vibes for a hot second from that start right you see him cruising down the water as demon gets to the front of the boat we had a great but chilling shot of the alamo gulch right aerial shot really nice uh and hester gives us this line i was like shut up hester she goes you know what they say a dead end is a new beginning that's not what they say and that is not what this is first of all at all closing time time actually i'm really bad at the lyrics you tried i did i did but not very hard uh they dock and then they meet cyan couture

who's gonna guide them to grumman and you know interestingly foreshadowing from the previous season when i kept saying and calling him hot priest right calling andrew scott the actor hot priest which is his name in fleabag the series and you know wouldn't you know it his demons voice actor is phoebe waller bridge who plays fleabag in that series so and she's very elegant as an Asprey. I will totally tell you, very elegant. And I do want you to know that I did not, for a long time, understand the difference between Phoebe Bridger and Phoebe Waller-Bridge. It's difficult.

You know, I sometimes am like, I don't listen to phoebe bridgers really even though i know that i would really like her and people tell me that i would and that they're right but their names are very similar that's not on you yeah before i knew that they were separate people and before i heard her music and understood she was an actress i just never knew and i'm sorry for that yep it's it's okay and i don't get to forgive you to be honest because i have no connection to these people whatsoever if you know i'm let them know well i do have a connection to will and lyra though they are searching for the tower entrance pan is a moth you know a symbol of transition often guided by paths of light and he is here for sure because lyra is

seeking the light from the tour d'angely boreal shows back up and he heads over to mary malone's lab yes lord boreal hopes to support oliver and mary's work mary's asleep at her desk big mood and things are actually like pretty they're pretty wrapped up on Oliver and Boreal's side when they awaken Mary accidentally. How funny, they accidentally forgot to wake her up for the meeting? Yep, even though she's the only one who knows how to make the fucking thing work. Interesting. Some really amazing shots with Boreal here.

The first shot we get of him, really, like he's staring at the cave and we see his reflection reflected in the cave, reflected in the research. And it's a new world for him, right? It's this realm of research, research that's already neatly done that he can pay for or steal. Research on shadow particles. And quite obviously, he doesn't lack for money or for guile and it's very apparent that he knows about them being shut down and knows more than they do about it also might have a hand in whether it happens or not and i think it comes across much better in this physical translation of the conversation from book book alone i don't know if it came

through as well but i think this scene was really well done. Yeah, they're doing a lot of great work adapting scenes from the book. Like, you know, once awakened from her nap, Mary is able to easily see through his empty words. You know, she can tell that something is off and she's willing to fight Oliver on this deal, especially because she's like, I'm not trying to give this to defense funding. Like the moment she hears that, she's like, we're done here. And she kicks Boriel out of her office. give this to defense funding like the moment she hears that she's like we're done here and she kicks boreal out of her office i love that a lot of mary malone this season is just her kicking people out of her office and that's aspirational absolutely especially when they're assholes because boreal obviously we know how he feels about women and we're going to talk about

that a lot more this episode but he says about Mary, because she fell asleep at her desk and she was there late, I've always admired a woman with a good work ethic. Excuse me? Yeah, I can't tell. I'm like, are you that foolish? Like, you've been here for a while, dude. But also shoot your shot. You know, like, hey, shoot your shot, but also- That's interesting.

It's interesting that you interpreted it like that i didn't think about it like that but i think he was trying to charm her also when he comes from a world where charming works different like where he's coming from like with marisa for example and we see how his charms work on marisa where marisa knows she has to agree to the deal to get what she wants. And Mary doesn't want to agree to anything. Like, Mary's very staunch in how she feels. Yeah, absolutely. And I really like the way that they've set up a lot of the stuff in this episode. There's a lot of ideas and themes coming through and here this exchange feels especially significant in the

context of what happens in that opening introduction with Zephaniah talking about like what happened with the guild they they found this great power in the knife right they had a choice of how they could use it whether they would use it for base greedy greedy purposes or whether they would use it for the good of all mankind and they chose to use it for their own greed and they became like hoarders as we see in in the opening and like mary could easily do that right she could go into her ambitions as a scientist get that funding from the defense whatever give into that temptation but instead she refuses that and wants to use this powerful tool for good or at least not let it fall into the wrong hands.

It was conveyed well in a really swift sense and well-paced sense. And Oliver getting a little expansion in this episode was good because he's a total dick. He is. Total asshole. He's, oh, we don't like Oliver in this household. No, he writes Mary Malone off and he's

like you know what I just think you haven't slept in weeks Mary and we love that don't we women in business uh fuck off Oliver that's all I have to say about Oliver but in context this feels like a microcosm of the war that is about to come uh taking a stand for what's right fighting for free will versus boreal representing the guildsmen here right like boreal is absolutely a gilded magpie here he takes what he wants when he wants it and that clash will come as we see with the magisterium against free will and the defense funding alone i mean hell this is probably really big and it's well highlighted how they're saying it because I know the UK approved their biggest budget in November, I think, yet for defense funding.

And I do know that the US, in comparison, we obviously spend a bajillion dollars more, especially due to our NATO involvement and because we can't keep our heads out of everyone's assholes. heads out of everyone's assholes. But like the US has $686.1 billion on their last 2019 defense budget and 69 billion of that goes directly towards war funding. That's more money than any of us will ever see. Right? Like anyone listening to this probably altogether the sum of it probably more than what we'll see. But that's that's money to build weapons. Right? That's what happens in those weapons have to be made off of technology. Boreal is here to spend some of that defense budget and acquire some cheap technology to create weapons with, and Mary is quite aware that's what would happen. I mean, this is real. This is realistic.

The Department of Defense and Federal Law Enforcement agencies in the U.S including immigration, FBI, drug enforcement, they have thousands of contracts, right with Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Dell, IBM, Hewlett Packard, even Facebook, right seems innocent, but we know that's not. We talked previously when the witches faced the devastation of the bombing at the hands of the magisterium about the Philadelphia move bombing. and to me that stands out so much because no matter the stance people had held on the group move all other activist groups stood beside them because governments when they acquire this technology they use it to enslave the world normal humans can't fight back against bombs or other warfare

being created from academic knowledge that the average person isn't granted to obtain right like the people that end up in this higher position of giving this technology away aren't always as staunch as mary some of them just sign it away for money yeah and i mean mary is able to to is privileged right and that she can say like no to such a big deal right when it comes to her career and her livelihood but i absolutely and i think that's such a testament to mary's character and also like she knows right what's this machine is capable of it kind of reminds me a little bit of the classic movie paycheck which i don't know if anyone watched except for me I actually really liked that movie which

I also was like probably a child when I watched it so that sets the bar of my expectations but um or not I don't know what year it came out either way I was really young but the point is like it reminds me of that right like how it could be used

destructively. And we see that even the alethiometer, right? People are using it somewhat destructively as well and asking not harmful questions, but questions for their own desires. And that's absolutely what would happen with the cave used for this, right? Yeah, wrong reasons. Well, back in Chittagatse,

where a lot of things have happened for the wrong reasons that was a decent segue um will and lyra still looking for how to get inside the tower find an angel insignia on the door which is how they end up getting inside and i thought it was really interesting the way that some of this was filmed where will is looking and walking along one apart and then lyra's yelling to him from somewhere else and suggesting that perhaps the entrance to the tower might be underground. And they're kind of separated.

And the door is underground. And it kind of reminds me a little bit about maybe a nod towards their eventual journey to the underworld in that window there. Yeah, she even makes a nod about it being like jordan doesn't she if i recall i want to say she makes a nod about how it's like the scholar's tomb at jordan maybe i'm making that up but i believe she says something about that which of course as we know the the coin representing life and soul and yada yada yada and listen i'm getting very dragon prince as well so we have to talk about that sometime in relation but i did not think about that until you said it however i have a

bunch of other underworld things to bring up this episode so i'm really glad that's another one they're heavily foreshadowing series three already i love it there's a lot. Metatron, this. Benches. Benches. I hate that. Listen, social media account directors. We see you. Respectful work in some manners. But hurtful. Some manners are disrespectful. Some are hurtful.

I don't need a bench every week, okay? I already know what's going to happen. I only have so many tissues. You know, last week we speculated that they might find a window in. We were wrong. But we speculated. And we talked about how there's this strange up and down layout, like the world's going on, right? Like almost like a subway or a sub world.

Almost like Discworld. I hope there's not a turtle under all of this. Turtles all the way down. This obviously isn't what happened. We didn't have to use a window but that is still the setup uh they found a random door that works too but our friend zika sent us a message and she had some different ideas about it uh she also thought this was really interesting and said that she was struck by the structure of the city how vertical it is how many levels

twists and turns it has and how that must have been useful for the philosophers when they first started cutting through to new worlds. We know Will experiences at least one time how cutting into a world at the wrong elevation is a stumbling block, and the complex levels of the city, and indeed the structure of the Tour d'Angely itself, provides a plethora of window location options to make sure you end up ground level somewhere. Could just be a happy accident, but since it came to make sure you end up ground level somewhere could just be a happy accident but since it came to power due to the philosopher's success it's possible they intentionally chose the location and layout i thought that was a really perceptive way to look at it as well it makes sense yeah yeah i thought i thought this was a really cool idea of that the

whole city is built around it and to serve that purpose I think really shows just how encaptured they were by the knife and that they could enter all these different areas I thought that was really cool Zika also asks how would windows end up outside the tower maybe someone had to

walk further down in order to gain safe access to certain areas which I think yes absolutely I also think that there's an aspect of maybe someone had to walk further down in order to gain safe access to certain areas, which I think, yes, absolutely. I also think that there's an aspect of, like, we get this from the opening, and we also get it from Zofania later on in book three of, like, I mean, people sometimes just use it for their own purposes. They were careless. And, I mean, if you have such a huge power, a lot of people, of course, they're tempted to use it.

Absolutely. have such a huge power a lot of people of course they're tempted to use it absolutely well as they enter the tower behind them waits the smoky tendrils of the specters floating a good sense of urgency right because will has to get this knife now yes and we get to see them more as that shimmer in the air lee continues on to grumman where he hopes to find a bacon sandwich and not just a sandwich trilogy at the other end of this journey. But first he finds a man, a man who has many names, it appears, a man with a man bun. And it's not just Grumman. He's also like, my name is Joppery. What the fuck is that? I'm sorry.

And it makes sense, I guess, because it was probably, like, the pronunciation they gave John Perry. But Joppery? John Perry? Joppery? I'm not sure I get it. Like, Joppery makes sense, but Joppery doesn't for me. Like, in the sense of, like, how do I say this name that, like, kind of sounds like it could have once been this and then evolved.

I just have to change my whole life is my problem with it. I'm not going to change anything. I refuse. I'm calling it Jopari. I'm still going to call him Jopari. I mean, for the purpose of discussing in this show, sure, I'll call him Joppery. But everywhere else in my life, I'm going to be Joppery. Wait, so you're saying we are calling him Joppery

oh this is so confusing well you can do whatever you want I'm a follower I don't know that I can we say I mean we go between so many different pronunciations for a song of ice and fire and also like George himself pronounces things in my opinion wrong he pronounces Dothraki as Dothraki

and I'm like that's wrong again still wrong so this was new this was the most life changing part for me was that Now it's as Dothraki as Dothraki. And I'm like, that's wrong. Again, still wrong. So this was new. This was the most life-changing part for me was that. And Joppery had summoned Lee Scoresby with his mother's Navajo ring. Joppery asks if Lee is hungry and they settle in for a long chat. So this is our first John Perry entrance. First official face-to-face happens here.

He comes out of an archway. So of course he has that coming through a different world kind of look to him. And the frame of the arch is really interesting. It has these patterns of lines that touch, connect, and break apart. Kind of like worlds joining together and breaking and falling apart. Like the current state of things, but also like his journey, right? What his journey's been comprised of. I was looking up the line work to see specifically if there was anything

that was perfectly inspiring for it. And I found a handful of things, but a lot of Chinese architecture and tile work that's kind of connecting these geometric lines kind of showed up in my search engine. And they're very self-contained. It reminds me a bit of the Yijing hexagrams as well. It's really prominent, even in things like chinese chess and his jacket has so so many cool lines on it it has this patchwork going on it has colors and reds and blues uh not unlike the multi-colored

fashion of lyra's poncho but smaller amount amount, more sporadic, joined together. And it's a little reminiscent of First Nations fashion, even kind of it just had the deep colors. And I thought that was really interesting. And it must be maybe just influenced with some sort of indigenous land. But we see also where the trepanning was done, right? The scar mark is very prominent. It's in his upper right forehead. and he has a mini man bun going on it looks real but it also looks kind of like a clip-on not sure i think it might be a clip-on because i was wondering that and i don't know if we should be wondering that or not but i think it is because like at the nape of his neck and granted some people like do that

with their hair intentionally you know they'll have some longer and some shorter towards the nape but like the nape it's like you can see that some of his hairs are short towards there so i think it's a clip-on wow you think a lot about not having it yeah well i do i'm licensed he might not have had enough time to grow it out to be long enough for a man bun is my guess right i mean no but i'm licensed to do hair exactly i always think about this stuff and i just am curious that's all yeah i am too andrew scott that's a behind the scenes footage i want to see if it is a clip-on like how did they put the clip-on man bun on i've never seen a clip-on man bun before you know i have and it does require

a little hair to attach to so i don't know i mean he has enough hair that i assume you know maybe he grew some of it out right he has to so that he could give himself a like obviously the swoop at the front that's what i was looking at too but it's not quite long enough to accommodate a man bun yeah we yeah not of that volume unless they really ratted it like i'm talking they had to really tease it and smooth it and tease it and smooth it and that thing if you look at it up close i'm just saying it it could be hosting something also i haven't seen any images of andrew scott where he has long hair so that's part of why yeah yes yes during the course of filming we would have seen it or

something hey there is no shame in a weave. I'm just saying, Andrew Scott, was it a clip on? Let us know. Give us a ring. Yes. Girlsconcanon at gmail.com. Eliana, get ready to bleep out my phone number. It's beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

Text me. Thanks. Thanks, Andy. So now that we've discussed his hair and death i do want to come back to his clothing while we're talking about fashion um you know as you were saying regarding the patterns i feel like there is a deep significance to it and as you said it feels i feel that there might be significance to it. And as you said, it's reminiscent of some of the textiles created by people from indigenous cultures. And many times, those sorts of patterns can be of deep importance to them.

I don't know which one it is. I like that at the back, the pattern seems to come up towards a point. Reminds me a little of the tower and the knife. But another example of some patterns that could be important are like like the taboli dream weavers in the philippines they weave um what's called and usually they use red black and white fabric or threads and that's similar to the culture colors that is a joe parry i went through andrew scott hot priest and then like had to land on

joffrey's wearing and um you know it's believed that they weave these textiles right these are patterns that they find in their dreams and that's why they're called dream weavers so that's something that i i'm thinking of i don't think that's what this fabric is but it's something that i'm trying to figure out i'd love to know more you know carolyn mccall costume person you know we just talked to andrew scott about his man bun obviously a moment ago carolyn if you could tell us a little bit about joppery's clothing please do i like that he does call himself joppery though and not john perry or stanislaus grumman. It's like a little packaging of all of his

experiences, who he was before and who he's become now. It's an interesting embracing. There's also a sense that he, like, in this episode, the way he speaks, there's a sense of him basically saying, you know, I was regretful for a while, Lee Scoresby, but I learned I can't go back, so I had to keep going.

Learn more, you know? And I think that's present in his look as well. And he wears a nice mean pair of jeans, you know? He wears a mean pair of jeans, that man. I'm like, I can see why they call him Hot Priest now. Yeah. We get our first look in the Tour de l'Angely

as Will and Lyra enter the tower. It's so beautiful, so symmetrical. Everything is evenly drawn, and I think it really represents that symmetry of how cutting open a hole into the world and creating a window and closing it after that balance of yin and yang. Candles, statues, windows, archways, tables, candelabras,

they all match perfectly. And when we ascend the stairs, the windows, those interlocking windows as we discussed earlier, from the inside they have a pattern of like six petals almost, right? And they let light flow through them and as you watch Will and Lyra walk upwards and ascend, it makes the light coming through those petals look like dust. Look just like the dust we saw during when Zephania was narrating even it looks like floating dust in the air as they climb I'm gonna have to look

back at that again that's very cool there's a lot of there's a lot of detail just in the design of Chittagatse in general I think and love put into it and you know like another thing is towards the end of the episode is mr paradisi's dying the sconce is like on the walls they cast light and that darkness on a way that kind of evokes the dual angel wings and there's just so much detail in everything like in this tower i really love their use of light we're going to talk about that more too with a couple other characters very fun speaking of other characters we're coming back to these other characters. Lee and Joppery once more. We're discussing the knife. Joppery is explaining that the

two forces are lining up to fight, but for good to triumph, we need the knife. And Joppery wants the knife to go to Asriel, but Scoresby, unlike his performance to Mrs. Coltrane episode, does not actually like Asriel, nor nor trust him especially after he abandoned his daughter which oh that's an interesting story about child abandonment jobry tells him uh yeah lee lee's like i would that's awful how could you ever do it just like marisa had to sit through right with the magisterium as they spoke about unnatural creatures abandoning their children uh and jobry is like oops I did that and you can see the pain on his face right as Lee is explaining like I would treat Lyra like

she was my own daughter and better than that you can see his face there's a little pain there uh they're really doing well with how they're establishing this story and I think I'm really going to have a very emotional reaction so we'll talk about it as it happens as the plot unravels but speaking of being sad as we often are we'll have much more time for that in the next episodes we go to someone who the clock is running out on lee he is so strong in his convictions and i'm like so proud right because you see him as this mouthy young guy and once upon a time in the north and he would just go where the money took him and then you see him as an older gentleman and seraphina peckle telling him lee your heart's not in the

right place you know like this is why we're fighting for this thing and now look at him now he's answering a call from a shaman from having faith joining in with the witches and taking a stand against all that is bad in this world and any world connected to it whether he's seen it yet or not i uh i just am really glad i'm proud real proud of him that's all i just worry about that guy you know i mean you should be worried no reason no reason whatsoever um i thought it was so funny that he did twist that knife with mrs coulter last episode that we find out this episode that he's like no fuck the guy yeah he was actually just saying that shit to like troll mrs coulter talking up her ex-boyfriend

lord asriel uh i love that great great follow-up and i kind of feel like there's a bit of meta commentary here on the emotional response people have towards lord asriel as you all know we don't have i think very positive feelings towards lord asriel we're like what the fuck dude and that's to put it lightly yeah and jobbery points out there he's like out that you don't have to like him to acknowledge that the work that he's doing is important. I'm like, interesting. But this exchange, and Lord Asriel comes up a lot throughout this episode, right? He's only been mentioned maybe once in the past few episodes and very much in passing.

But he comes up here, he comes up again with lord boreal talking about his inferiority complex towards lord asriel but i mean lord boreal is kind of right but also you know jobry's also gone through the windows too anyways there he's right again don't love lord asriel uh but the witches also talk about him as well and finally give it makes me think that the bottle episode that we were discussing that james mcgavoy wasn't able to film because a pandemic happened um would have come either right before this episode or right after especially like we have all this stuff explaining the specters and the knife and i kind of wonder if the Zephania voiceover is a I think it works

really well but but knowing that there was a bottle episode and that it got cut and all the mention of Lord Asriel here makes me wonder like would they have worked in that explanation into the bottle episode instead of doing this narration and that was the workaround for it that's interesting I could see that being a thing but I feel like it was planned because as we'll get to in this episode it's 100% Zephania's voice that is part of the cave coming out of the cave later and also they opened the season with Zephania so that's true I think they were definitely planning to bring Zephania in early on especially I think that the Asriel bottle episode was going to show Zephania and that's what I think is actually missing is that the Asriel Bottle episode was going to show Zephania and that's what I think is actually missing is that the

Asriel Bottle episode was going to show the kingdom and show maybe the leaders ahead of time and bring us a little into season or series 3 sorry bring us into series 3 a little ahead of time and give us kind of a look at the war council coming and joining because we know we're getting angels this

season right we know what happens when Will goes off and he has to find lyra and he gets paired up with baruch and balthamos and i i just think that they were going to try to pull it up a little ahead of time and that bottle episode was going to get us caught up for series three that makes sense i just think it would have happened around these that's why they keep bringing him up. And yeah, and like the scene of Angelica watching her father get attacked by specters in the narration. I feel like that could have happened in the bottle episode and been used in there. You know?

Yeah, I think so. And I definitely think that we were going to see Tulio-Asriel crossover. And even here, you know, Giacomo Paradisi tells them at some point that he knows demons right so i imagine it involves as real i'm imagining he's met as real steven and has real yeah or or it has traveled in general because he said people so i i love that idea that he says that and before then though Lyra and Will they do ascend the tower and then there is that brief struggle as we all know and again they

appear out of a window or a hole in the floor and find Giacomo Paradisi finally the bearer of the knife and then Tulio wanders the tower we have no reveal as to his relation yet to Njalka and Paola and he swings around wildly with the knife and then tulio wanders the tower we have no reveal as to his relation yet to njalka and paula and he swings around wildly with the knife and attacks will there's an immense struggle by the window where both of them are almost goners then we have a slow-mo shot of the knife cutting

the stone angel to show its power against solids it's pretty great actually and then tulio this is not so great kicks pan and it hurts both pan and lyra and like it was awful it was like a gut reaction and that's set up really well because we then get the moment later where pan is super sweet to will when he's you know freaking out losing blood yada yada and it's kind of these exact opposite setups to explain the taboo of touching someone else's demon we also get a good shot of the stained glass finally that i've been trying to strain and understand what it says uh and this is not this one is not me wasting my time it reads dormi congli angeli sleep with angels yes and so that will come back

for us with mr paradisi in a while sadly yes it does and so i do love that pan tells lyra to help will and the choreography i i like this fight scene okay and it did a great job of showing that risk that lyra is taking and trying to help will fight for this scene and also what you were saying by drawing attention to tulio kicking pan i'm like how can you kick pan he's so chubby and fluffy it's so mean and he's so cute and i mean i think about it i'm like i guess this is a bunch of kids who like beat up cats so this is probably not a big deal for them and it i am very sad about tulio's actor now like losing his scenes like he got gets so little yeah now in this episode maybe like a line poor lewis i know lewis mcdougall i hope you get lots and lots of good work i hope someday we get a rendition of it somehow

yeah news gets worse yeah uh it you, we get those iconic moments, right? Will loses his two fingers, which are, of course, the mark of the bearer. And then after a while, when he realizes and unbandages and sees it, he faints and wakes up in Giacomo Paradisi's quarters. Tulio has run off. And he wakes his- The first thing that he sees is pan's fluffy face the best and then there's lyra also in his face and there's muffled whispering of his name before

he opens his eyes but poof so cute the best thing you see when you wake up is pan the panda but that was a great echo there from the beginning of the season so do you remember when we first started the season and Lyra wakes up in the cave in shelter and she wakes up from hearing Roger say her name and it's like the first shot of the season you hear Lyra but it's really Pan not Roger but it sounds like Roger yes yes well then here everything is black and you hear lyra go will so what do you want about the very last frame of the season will be fade to black and then you hear lewin lloyd's voice go lyra rude that would be so i'm just saying i'm just putting it out there now i don't know i am interested because you keep mentioning how they keep bringing him up.

And obviously they want us to understand the weight of it and be ready for series three. And they have to keep bringing him up. So I think we might hear a couple more Roger things as we go along. Yeah, I love that they're doing that. Speaking of being a red panda, we also got a tweet from nick porter aka some guy 192 on twitter and i really want to call this out it was very very good and insightful about uh a few episodes ago right we saw pan become a wolverine instead of a leopard to chase off the kids in his dark materials and we talked about that might be a reference to daphne's former role uh in logan

but nick points out that they're increasingly making pan's forms members of the family musta loy da musta loy dea showing a gradual closing in to Pan's final form. And then Nick explains that mustaloids include skunks, red pandas, raccoons, badgers, wolverines, martens, polecats, reasel spirits,

ermines, and otters. So I thought that was really a great piece of insight. Astute. Astute, indeed. Maybe you should have the podcast, Nick Porter. so I thought that was really great insight astute indeed maybe you should have the podcast Nick Porter I grow weary of Eliana I'd sell her for a nickel I'm just kidding

I wouldn't sell her for anything I wouldn't sell you for plum brandy really I would but Giacomo Mr. Paradisi Mr. Paradisi would give me plum brandy for free if i was will perry if i was will perry he does give will plum brandy to help with the shock of losing the fingers and explains the mark of the bearer yes and you know he also talks about the knife. He calls it Isahatra. Right. That's an interesting way. I pronounce it differently. Yep. I say it real different. I say Isahater.

See, I'm an Isahater. You know, close enough. That's more or less what I say, I think. And to be fair, I don't think I ever did find a good pronunciation guide online. You know, it's every man for himself including Mr. Parody see as we learn I assume this one's probably more correct than my pronunciation not Joppery

they're wrong this one Joppery's wrong that was probably right but you know what I'm not gonna change this one so cheers really interesting I could change Isahitra I can't change i'll do joppery for this anyways we are back to him though he explains that he left his family

behind in hopes of bringing a better world for them uh he says it was a bad decision probably and that he tried to get back to them a few years before but that the way he had entered disappeared I don't think that's in the book uh exactly in those words that he tried to get home but by that it was too late I think it might be but not quite in the words he used I really appreciate that they're highlighting that part of the conversation I mean this is a whole chapter right like this is a back and forth for an entire chapter so having an inner cut across the episode was great the journey there getting here having the conversation and there were just really significant bits that i think are being done well about his love for elaine and how he feels about will and he's wearing his wedding

ring still yes and that that showed quite clearly in the trailer there's a close-up on his hand i think that has that with like a feather and i he does discuss this in the books not exactly those words but he talks about like i mean nobody goes on a fucking expedition not thinking that they're gonna come back right not necessarily and he tried to go back but it wasn't that the window disappeared like they couldn't find it again you know yeah well he had journeyed on became a shaman even discovered the part of himself he had no clue existed the female side of himself which he says is changeable very interesting very fascinating i'm glad jopari has become one with himself out here in this wilderness

house he convinces lee that this would this free will. Yes, free will. And leave a better world for his son and other children to exist in. Lee finally is like, all right, I'll take you where you need to go, as long as you can guarantee Lyra's protection under the knife's bearer. And Jobari's like, yes, sure, Lyra will be under the bearer's protection, but the bearer will have his own tasks that could put this girl in grave danger. And he says that he cannot speak for the bearer's character. Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

Ho ho ho. Ho ho. I love, I love this storytelling device. I'm a sucker for this trope, right? Like, that somehow it's his son that's the chosen one and he has no clue that his son is going to be the bearer right and even a bit before he actually infantilizes his son he's like i want to leave him a better world you know my kid but it's like your son's not a kid anymore your son's about to be a man your son just lost two fingers out there he's been dealing with the world's harshness you know since a little after you left man uh it makes what comes next in this plot that much more of a nasty

shock you know especially because we know andrew scott can act he does act very well he's so different from the hot priest that he plays so i'm just like wow what range it does really hammer that home especially when he sees will right in the books and i'm just like wow what range it does really hammer that home especially when he sees will right in the books and i'm sure we'll see it there he'll be like shit what have i done like he's so young i mean he is really young and i'm i'm ancient and lee and joppery right they load up grumman uses his shaman powers to summon a wind to move them and at first like hester's giving him shit she's like nothing's happening and then it starts happening but as you were saying you know i love that they

have set up both lee and grumman's motivations as fighting for their children biological or otherwise and their children are in love the knife bearer and lyra are in love and sorry no don't apologize ever for the way you are oh it's so important to me to everyone to the world personally yes it's coming through this episode and anyways amazing lee is of course seeing a lot of these things and trying to help lyra in a much more straightforward way right he's trying to find aid for lyra whereas joppery is trying to do it in the best way that he knows how not being able to get back to his family and creating slash leaving a better world plural for his son and i think it's it's a motivation for many parents right i hear it a lot uh from people you know in my line of work parents saying that

they want a better world for their children than the one that they grew up in. And that ends up being Mrs. Coulter and Asriel's motivations at the very end of the story, too. And I love that you kind of have this two-fold dramatic irony, where Lee and Jopri, they think that their goals are aligned in protecting their children, and then turns out they later on think that they're unaligned, because Jopri's like, no, I gotta put the bearer first. But they are aligned, in in fact because they are in love byra and will together she's already under his protection i know and he's under hers because mr paradisi calls her wise and i'm like i don't know about that quite yet but i love that girl

i don't know and i do think that there's something interesting going on that's really complex right in like that John Perry says he made a mistake thinking that his work was at first more important than losing his family over it that's I think a little different from the books but in order to play his part in making the world better for his son he does have to be a part from him the part that he's playing as a shaman and working on all of this and with lee protecting lyra like to have done all that he has to be apart from his family in this other world and love his son and his wife from afar and then that just makes me think in a very sad way now no stop don't say it why would you say this i didn't even realize i was leading up to it like that when i kept cheering about will and myra and i was like what the fuck

have i done yeah there's more in this episode that does that too so just shut your mouth shut your gab jesus i'm done okay back in the tower with Mr. Paradisi. He gives us the backstory. He gives us the backstory on the knife, and he starts to teach Will how to use it to open windows into the fabric of reality. We learn of both sides of the knife, and Lyra comments on recognizing the magnesium alloy from the demon cages, which I was very excited about, that it's canon.

The blade in the guillotine is made of that same metal alloy and we didn't actually get this part of the speech from ruda this season at the witches council earlier on but it stands out here that she had come and told the witches that they only know the north the churches in the south are doing the same thing they're cutting sexual organs of boys and girls with knives so they can't feel and that they do that they control destroy obliterate every good feeling and the alloy of the knife it's obvious that that alloy it's interesting that she's seeing it here in this knife because it's reminiscent that like that wasn't created with ill intent necessarily that alloy was something

that could help with probably modern day medicine, kitchen work, cleaning, medical, etc. Could have made new joints for me is what I'm saying. You know, like I could have a robo hit by now, but someone got a hold of it and created part of this knife. And later, someone got a hold of it, harnessed that power and created a blade to sever people from their souls. This is technology that fell into the wrong hands the very discussion happening in mary malone scenes visually i do want to add by the way that the knife looks amazing the one side has like these scales almost and the other side is super smooth and it's just so interesting good job to their prop guy whoever he may be good job to their prop guy whoever he may be never heard of him no one knows he knows who he is yeah that's a that's a great point uh regarding uh the cutting and that it could have been used

for something good and you know allegedly asriel used it for something good and i'm like but did he considering that everyone else was like there's less flashy ways anyways uh coming back to the design of the knife and that of the tower that twist of lines i also really love it and it calls to mind several things right like you were discussing earlier that overlapping circles pattern on the windows of the horror deli angeli feeling like the overlapping and crossing between worlds and i feel like that's something that we see with the way that the knife is designed i'll come back to that in a second but the twist in the knife and the tower spire i think really gives it the sense of movement and dynamism especially in the spire with multiple twists? And we know that the knife has its own will, which I didn't come up with this pun. Philip Pullman did.

It's not my fault. It really isn't. And the movement in the curves of the knife helps give it that sense. It also feels like it's bringing and honing all of its power to this one point at the end. and honing all of its power to this one point at the end but also that single twist reminds me a little of the mobius strip which is it has that surface of only one side infinite and you might recognize it as that ring with a single half twist in it and it's an idea that's played again with mc escher's prince he he brings that idea into there but also seeing how the worlds are symbolized throughout the series you know as these little strings between them and we see them often as

lines that's how the show's been depicting them these lines side by side which is likely hearkening back to the string theory ideas of a multiverse which i do think philip pullman was was probably inspired by the structure of the knife and the twist in it kind of like breaks that right it's that idea of like crossing the lines over into another world on that knife it's it's a really really simple but beautiful way that they've evoked it I love that the knife isn't like super flashy you know? Yeah, but the details up close are still really elegant. It's very subtle. I can't tell if I'm joking or not.

I hope you figure it out before I fire you. Will has a hard time focusing through all of this pain, and he's getting kind of easily frustrated at failing at the knife. So Lyra helps him she encourages him and pan also comes out for some encouragement leaning up and pushing his head against will's hand to comfort him lyra totally freaks out at first explaining this is this is taboo but pan's like it was my fault not will's i really wanted uh and it was oh my god true love uh and lyra is the dust fairy right because right after this she's like she goes around telling people they're special right and

she's like you're special will and i'm gonna teach you right now how to be zen how i interact with dust because i'm assuming that's what you need to be doing here you need to mirror me so just you know embrace your pain here's some advice accept the pain master the knife and we'll go back to training buddy and he does yeah yes and it is a beautiful moment and i do think it's great that they highlighted that it's taboo and that they brought it up earlier in that first meeting when he was about to touch Pan. So the fact that it happens here and they both kind of know now. Great touch. The witches regroup. There are hundreds of witches from the Lubana tribe

who died at the Magisterium's hand. And Seraphina tells Ruta that she needs her for what happens next. And Seraphina knows where Lyra is and she needs Ruta's help to find the girl and strike back at the Magisterium. come to an agreement that ruda plans to get asriel after they find lyra because she's like he's got to come back and finish what he started with the magisterium because fuck this shit you know the last couple episodes people have kept repeating no one can control the weather and ruda mentions even the rains they called couldn't put out the fires at lake lubana so another mention now it's not just our shaman jopari but we also have the

witches who can control weather that's awesome uh so they must have called a spell to call a storm and that of course ties in with that whole grave speech on how they're unnatural heretics and blah blah blah but i just found that very interesting to follow up on yeah that's a great point i mean jeff that's heresy yeah learn it somewhere yeah and only jesus makes it rain he stills the rain etc yep we always give props to ruth though for her subtle performances but i really want to give some props here to jade anuka she does a wonderful job in the scene she's like holding herself with all of this strength and this like sorrow and guilt about what happened to her tribe it's like all there on her face and in her body language and

it's just that there's a mixture of emotions and it's delivered really well so great job to her i love that we cut back into knife training hired 401k! Salary! Okay, Mr. Paradis, he says, finally, as we get into the knife training, he says, Now you must learn to close. Sheath the knife. For this, you must put your very soul into your fingertips. And I'm sorry, but there was absolutely nothing else I could think about than when Mr. Paradis, he says, Now you must learn to close.

I had immediate whiplash trauma about the amber spyglass because now you must learn to close makes me think about the end and closing all the windows and him being closed on the other side. And like, will Lyra have to learn that far too soon? And even the way Will looks at him when he says, now you must learn to close. I just want to rip my heart out, chop it up, maybe just stir fry it on the stove. I don't know, feed it to someone and make their life better because I don't need it. I'm in pain and all I can think about is their ending. So that's my sadness. It is so painful.

Like, I didn't even think about that moment. But like in this scene, scene right when Will is learning and getting his training Lyra's like watching him and looking over him like and it's called out that she's watching him and there's like almost a sense of pride but also like fascination right there's so much there and then like when Will like kind of like gets it and stuff he looks back at Lyra he's gonna look back at her from a window at one point and close it and stuff, he looks back at Lyra. He's gonna look back at her from a window at one point and close it and he's gonna be on the other side,

Eliana, and she's gonna be on the other side and they're not gonna be on the same side and they're not gonna be together forever and I don't... What's the point? What's the point? What's the point of any of it? That is the point. What's the point?

But why? And then like... What's the point? What's the point of any of it? That is the point. What's the point? But why? And then like... So the Amber Spyglass and Series 3 are gonna be really fun to listen to Girls Gone Canon during. And I hope you're excited and I hope you're happy with yourselves. God damn it. Yeah, I almost cried talking about it during one of them. Which, as you know, is not my thing for this

podcast. Clothes thing. Not mine. I don't cry. I've never cried in my life we'll learn the rules of the knife don't talk about the knife no wait sorry wrong series don't open a window without closing it after

don't let anyone else hold it don't use it for shitty reasons like buttering bread and don't boast a knife I mean it's gonna fuck up your bread yeah and your counter and your pb and your jay uh most probably you you'll cut your finger off you know you'll shoot your eye out kid jacomo leaves them he's like i need some privacy in my final times. And interestingly enough, in The Subtle Knife, Will is the one who's urging Lyra, like, Lyra, we have to leave him. Lyra's like, no, we have to stay here. They changed it and switched it up and Lyra actually is urging him, which I actually really like because it was very much the mentor and mentee relationship, right? Yeah, it makes sense.

I mean, Giacomo holds Will's face and there's a connection. So, another thing is Candid59 pointed out in these scenes with Giacomo that she thought of me from previous episodes just yelling, Mr. Paradisi! And I do want you all to know that that is in fact

an accurate way to imagine me watching this episode. I did indeed keep squealing and my heart must have been like, what is going on? Because I kept going Mr. Paradisi! Mr. Paradisi! We were also doing that here. I just want you to know for you. I'm glad.

All we could think about was you. It's the only way to... Oh, I thought you meant you were also yelling Mr. Paradisi. Oh, no, we were. We were. For you, though. We were thinking of you. Specifically how you yell it. Because it's you as Lyra. First of all. Like, it's you reading Lyra because Lyra calls him Mr. Paradisi.

Mr. Paradisi. Oh. Mr. Boreal. I say that a different way now, ever since this show. Oh my god, Mr. Boreal. Oh wait, wrong. wrong fuck i guess that's not how we're supposed to say it in the scene because he's super like creepy but yeah he is not a sexy guy

to me in this scene i am not turned on by him here he is discussing lyra in different worlds with mrs coulter in this scene yes he reveals that lyra is in the other world, a different Oxford. And that he actually has her trapped, kinda. Allegedly. And Mrs. Coulter reminds Lord Boreal that Lyra is in fact very good at getting out of traps.

And Lord Boreal won't tell her how. Mrs. Coulter agrees to go with him to find Lyra, and I love when she's just like, so you don't have her.'s so good so you don't have her at all you're just wasting my time the entire scene is set really interestingly it's a it's a fancy restaurant he seats her right so that specifically keeps the power in his court he specifically has his hand on the small of her back while seating her showing her that he's remaining in control remaining in power and his information of having lyra and refusing to admit how he has her is again him withholding information to keep that position of power over mrs coulter because if she knew that

he had the alethiometer then she'd just get the alethiometer and get lyra with the alethiometer she'd just wait for her and then grab her uh it wouldn't work quite as well but she'd figure it out i'm just saying she's a crafty lady she doesn't need boreo and she constantly has this upper hand over him usually right like she's always the one with all the knowledge and you can tell throughout the scene that she's very uncomfortable she does not want to have to be getting dinner with this man or making a deal with him to get her daughter but she is he calls lyra a gift from him to her and his demon slides along toward her hand with his hand touching hers and it's implied the demon's going to keep slithering so this is also exploring that opposite side of the taboo we talked about with will and lyra with tulio kicking Pan and Pan rubbing on Will. She has her best fake smile plastered on. She tells

him, well, take me to another world then, Carlo. Which is, of course, it's a euphemism, right? That's a euphemism for sex, but also for walking through another world, which is what they do in their next scene together. But it's also implied that Coulter probably is having to put out in order to get her daughter back. It's fairly obvious she doesn't want to be at dinner with him. She doesn't want to be having to touch him and drink wine with him and have his demons slither along her. And it's very obvious from the familiarity and the way they're speaking to each other with first name terms, there might be things happening off the screen between these two adults uh she's

playing the game though right like she is doing what she can to get her daughter is very obvious and this is a game that i think we're pretty apparently we see that coulter's had to play to stay in power have certain sanctions and protections and manipulate the right people to get what she wants and regarding the demons you pointed out that he feels like he's slithering and during that whole time you can tell mrs coulter doesn't want it because she's gripping her own demon under the table um to sort of just like keep her cool during it but it it is interesting i wonder what the dynamic is between them and the books they were former lovers but it feels here like he's trying to seduce her for the first time or

something. And obviously that happens, but also like, it does feel just kind of like, so we're going to keep our fun game and charade going. Yeah. You want your daughter and he's been making very casual snide threats this whole season series,

this whole series. He's been making these snide threats and comments about Lyra. You know, has her demon settled yet? It's all been very, like, playing, like, very semi-sexual and, you know, gross. So, I think it's set up for a very obvious reason that, and I don't know if they're keeping that canon here but it wouldn't surprise me if they were of course once more hooking up off screen yeah he does such an interesting boreal way more interesting than in the books yeah and it's written it's written well for him too and then we go back to lyra and will they are watching the tower as specters float around the tower and

terence stamp gets his money's worth as he drinks poison just in time before the specters get him. Good for them. You know what, they used a famous actor exactly how you should for a guest episode, and this is, of course, where Sleep with Angels comes to light. Dormi con gli angeli. Right here you see that beautiful stained glass and that phrase stretched out across it as he takes the poison and right before the specter comes to get him his eyes shut what a what a quick mentor in mentor out it worked yeah i kind of wonder if the in those windows the two angels on either side are supposed to make us think of baruch and paul thomas oh yeah they are absolutely guardian angels um speaking of terence stamp i forgot who pointed this out on twitter when i saw it but i know that twitter

gazay has pointed it out many times that terence stamp played lord asriel in like the radio productions of his dark materials so very interesting very fun to have him come in for this guest role and that of course i'm very sad watching mr paradisi die i don't know why i just love this minor character so much and like even in the books and i do think it's interesting that what we get here with the way that he dies in the specters work is that the specters fly up to the tower because in the books they cannot fly until mrs culture like does something that kind of teaches them to do so like freeze them from the ground or whatever and i don't know if the show is like doing this to simplify that and cut out some steps

or like because when the witches cross over for the first time in the books like it was really significant that the specters couldn't reach them when they were flying they were like kind of safe if both they and their demons stayed in the air until again mrs coulter like changed the game so i think that's really interesting huh i didn't really think about what that meant yet because i do assume that we're going to get some good specter stuff against the witchers in the episodes to come right probably for coulter's last stand against the witches etc uh we'll probably get a good eye to see what happens at the camp right yeah while they're off i'm guessing so i'm sure we'll see part of it but that is interesting that

uh she's the one that really gave them the the in the books in here, not so much. We'll see. Yeah. We head over to Marisa and Carlo at the Orangerie Between Worlds. The Orangerie is, of course, the same one they filmed at in Bristol in Series 1. This year it looks much more grim, though, as these stakes get raised. Mrs. Coulter walks through a window, looking wary of it. It looks like it's her first time though i

don't know if i believe that her outfit is not quite as tight here in the chest and in the waist as her previous outfits she's wearing her classic blue lyra blue coulter blue here which suggests her plot moving forward is completely revolving around finding lyra and it's not quite as buttoned in this look her hat has an air of exploring she's not wearing black high heels uh for once uh she's wearing I want to say isn't it scaly shoes it looks almost like scaly and she has her little pin that represents almost like matter and stars dust if you will yeah I thought that her clothes felt very significant. I think it's interesting that you said that she's doing this Lyra blue,

you know, it feels like a, in a way it was almost her blue sometimes before, before Lyra did. And like, she can finally be herself once leaving the magisterium as well. And I mean, Lyra's clothes are interesting this episode. She has this beautiful,

like cute little stitching along the collar of her sweater. And it comes twice in two different colors and feels like the lines. It reminds me a lot of the work that the lines have been doing in the opening sequence and with the computers converging. But as you were saying, her accessories feel really pointed, like the star brooch. I was thinking of it not just theoch. I was thinking of it, not just the stars. I was thinking of it, I didn't think of the dust thing at all, but you know, like, she's heading north

towards that window, the north star, but also, like, the morning star, Lucifer, and, like, who was one of the core inspirations for Asriel's character in the side that she's gonna pick. And as you were saying with her heels, yeah, it does look scaly. I wanna say it's snake skin but i don't know but i want to say it's snake skin heels which is really interesting considering what happens soon or next for boreal

sorry carlo these are bloody shoes can't wait she steps into chitigatse in these shoes with boreal following behind her telling her stay with me and they gaze at the tori d'alianjoli coming out of the door to the artwork of chitigatse on the wall and we get the spectacular shot that is absolutely beautiful haunting like spectacular i want to put it on one perfect shot online like it is the best of coulter in front of the chita got say artwork the mural on the wall with the red roses and the tower looming in the background and she sees a specter coiling in the air and stares pretty much through it and walks away what a chilling shot just gorgeous even the light in this uh the light refracts across her so

most of her is in darkness and shadow, but there's a slash of light across her torso, almost saying is there still some light in there? Is there still some good in there? Interesting. It is. It was a really well done shot, and

yeah, I don't know if the mural was peeling off of what, angels beneath it? It looked like an angelic pattern in it, yeah. Yeah, so it was fantastic. And then she just, yes, goes through. That's the last we see of her this episode. Yes, because we then bust over to Tulio, who, sad poor Tulio, the reason the specter was the focus is because Tulio meets his fate.

He bangs at the door for Angelica and Paula but cannot get in yeah sad again for Lewis's moments but also sad in this moment that uh the children can't hear him he's banging to try to get in it kind of feels like this gap right between the worlds of adulthood and childhood but he can't go back he can't reenter that child's world locked out Lyra and Will will be locked out of each other's worlds just like all the uh the spirits are locked out of heaven

yeah well Will is washing off the dust in a bath he got a little dusty during all of this so he and the blood also uh he's recovering though in a bath and lyra enters the bath backwards a la series one when roger entered backwards with towels for her she brings towels she apologizes as well she's really sorry about everything that happened here and then she explains that the alethiometer told her will was important before she lost it and that he had something important to do here

and she'd got say she asks what will wants to do next and he says they need to pull a heist for the alethiometer and not give up the subtle knife also pan looked oh he did and i love it i love slutty little pan throughout this whole episode he's a little harlot oh my god i love it i love slutty little pan throughout this whole episode he's a little harlot oh my god i love it i love it i'm so glad he looked speaking of flirting the outro of that scene good night will perry bearer of the knife good night lyra silver tongue oh my god make out already I can't believe we have to wait one whole series. Their hearts were probably beating so hard in that scene.

Yeah, absolutely. Young love. Gotta be young and have to save all of destiny. And then have to be torn from your one true love for the rest of your life. Free will! Truly.

Lee and Joppery sail off. They find this balloon in the woods still, and then up they go. Different movie, Up. Hester is bitching again, as we said, about Joppery's speed, and he surprises them by calling Gwyn. I'm now

realizing, is Hester bitching about them because they made that point at them towards the beginning of the sign Couture yes it saying Couture said like oh I thought you you're more turtle than hair or whatever is what she said right and they make I don't remember the exact remark but it's basically that in return it was great uh-huh Hester's like yeah don't talk shit don't talk shit saying Couture you're gonna get hit Sian Couture's like bitch I've severed

bitch what of it I can go where I want yeah and they're like here's the wind what do you want I'm pretty sure ospreys probably eat rabbits Hester you wanna go oh my god fuck with fleabag I'm just kidding but we did actually

get this really interesting note from our friend fred uh i wanted to bring this up about the composition of lee scoresby's western genre uh his theme music very clearly references enrico morricone's composition the ecstasy of gold from the western the good the bad and the ugly and he left some links for us to compare the themes. Very obviously at 25 seconds through the theme, through 55 seconds into Lee's theme, can you hear kind of these similarities? We'll link them below.

And we did actually discuss a little bit on some spaghetti Westerns and Westerns in general in our 21st Patreon special episode on Once Upon a Time in the North, the novella about Lee Scoresby when he was a bit younger. And we joke around a lot that it's his spaghetti western novella, but it's because it actually is. Pullman has a serious love for them. And if you listen to our Subtle Knife chapters 9 through 10 coverage, episode 13, we talked about how Lee is likely named for two

people, William Scoresby who was an arctic explorer and Lee Van Cleef who starred in spaghetti westerns like for a few dollars more and the good the bad and the ugly so this completely checks out comparing these two themes so I thought that was fun thanks for the email Fred and another fun tidbit is that El Eliana, I'm going to blow your mind. Did you know there is a term called Paella Western? I did not. I did not. What is a Paella Western? It's Westerns produced in Spain.

That's mind blowing. Amazing. That's so great. Amazing. I didn't know that. The world's full of awesome things. That's blowing my mind. Fred's email blew my mind when i saw that

i was like holy shit and i think i'm just also like especially excited like it's such a great insight especially because we're going to be thinking more about the music and the music just so good yes so far um so thank you thank you so much fred we've gotten a lot of people have been sending like awesome stuff this week yeah don't stop please keep sending us these great insights it's helpful other things that are helpful mary malone gets sent some things digitally too right because the cave gets an upgrade oh my god it gets a voice and it tells mary to ask a question and mary learns that dust and dark matter are one and conscious also that they're angels and that they've intervened in human evolution for one thing the bad pussy oh my god it's not what

it is Eliana it's vengeance they intervene for vengeance justice and firing blood ah okay in re-watching this Eliana i'm 100 sure and i didn't think about it as it happened but the angel speaking to her in question is zephania it is sophie okoneto's voice i like closed my eyes and listened and i was like i know that voice anywhere and i do i do know sophie okoneto's voice again. I was a Whovian. We discussed this at the top of the episode. Keep up. But you know how, like, in TV shows and in real life, I guess, we try to communicate with other worlds and aliens and shit.

And, like, you get the radio waves of, like, is anyone out there? Yes. That's literally what's happening here. Like, through different worlds, the leader of the Angel Rebel Army has been straight up trying to get through to Mary the leader of the angel rebel army has been straight up trying to get through to mary malone through the cave after all this time holy badass and it's just such a well set up scene this scene is so good i was i was freaking out because it was just perfect it was the best translation of the book text. And during the shot alone, if you actually watch the shot,

the computers that are surrounding Mary, the monitors that are to her left and to her right, the reflection of them are separated. One of the reflections is of the cave, and it makes it have a white reflection on the back of the monitor. And the other reflection is dark and matte and just like a black reflection. So it looks like Yin and Yang are separating her with her in between them. Yes, it's so interesting. Really well shot.

That's great. That's a great catch in the composition of the scene. Her caught between them. Or the balance between them, right? Talking with those two energies. You need both right yes and that's so great and as you were saying it's a it's a wonderful translation of the book there's that line that i think we talked about quite a bit in when we covered the subtle knife and

how angels work in terms of interacting with our world and the delivery here was just chef's kiss it was just perfection that it was the line of like from what we are spirit from what we do matter matter and spirit are one and just that and the addition right of the vengeance at the end like everything about the scene was so haunting and amazing and it's a great structure in this episode in general it follows the tower of the angels and then you find out that oh wow shit angels are real and it's there's just hints throughout the episode of like what the purpose of the knife might be and that it comes together with this like the angels intervening in human evolution altogether is just yes it's such a great structure it's well brought together and like

there's been an exploration of some of these themes that i don't know that i understood as well when i read the book that i now i'm going oh this connects to this so i think it's a great way that they've adapted this exact scene from the book and i also love the way the dust was coming off the screen as the angel spoke i thought that was neat too uh siri can't do that yeah cannot you know today lauren balfe who does all of the beautiful creative control of the music put out lyrics to mary malone's theme music that uh that is played behind a lot of this and aliana if you want to do the honors because as we've discussed i cannot do latin it's not yeah for me well i did not study latin either i studied two other romance languages again that were neither of which were latin and so we will we are gonna do the best we can

and uh the the lyrics posted by lauren are in itinere te ducent angeli fortunam in venius so the rough translation of that is the road to the angels find fortune interesting i thought that was great especially because we know that mary is about to set out on a road and find some fortune indeed the malefa some beautiful culture the malefa okay okay i'm track so speaking of vengeance the magisterium is waiting at the tear in the sky and they are attacked by witches who destroy the ships as they go seraphina gets a nice close-up and gets to destroy some people real quick this is vengeance my friends this is perfectly connected to this last scene with what zephania is narrating right and the idea of Zephania both opening this episode by narrating about the knife and opening a window for the viewer into this magical world and then closing the episode and closing this window with

vengeance showing the witches striking back at the magisterium who want to take all that is anything right they want to take free will away this is what it's all about it was a well done episode an amazing story any flaws that could have happened here paled in comparison to how good it was that's how you do an adapted episode yeah not that we're making points on anyone but yes absolutely fantastic structuring as we've been saying and it's also like an interesting comparison with the visuals right the witches, they're flying, and the way that their dress is billowing in the wind. And then, of course, how the specters look, them flying through the air. And then this idea, again, of the angels with their vengeance. It kind of feels like an angel of death thing going on.

And just so many good things going on. And, you know, I'm hoping that we keep this energy for the next episode. You know, it's been a strong season so far. What do you think is going to happen, you know, as we move forward, Chloe? Oh, speculating on the next episode. Spectorulating. That didn't work the way I thought it was going to. I'm going to gloss right past that one. I think speculating on didn't work the way i thought it was gonna get a gloss right past that one

i think speculating on the next episode we only have so much left to fit into episodes so i know they're gonna make some adaptive choices right we've seen a little bit from both there's been some previews and also not just previews but also from the layout of boreal's house that we're gonna see something change there i think I think we're gonna see something change with Lyra, Coulter, Will they'll have a scene something teased in the previews I don't know I just think we're gonna get some different changes because before in that scene it's just Will, Lyra, Boreal and Marisa are there and they don't really get the full extent of realizing Lyra's there so I think something might change there, and not just that, but I also

think that Coulter's going to maybe get her upper hand back. I don't think she can stay down for too long with the chips down. I don't know. Something's gotta give. And obviously, Boreal dies eventually. Yeah, I don't know if that happened this coming episode or the episode after

or not. I'm interested in it um you know we discussed it in the trailer episodes but i do think that it'll come out that lord boreal was the one harassing will's mother or at least i hope so that was an interesting change from the books and i think that it would be really interesting i'm excited to hopefully see that come through with will's character and how that changes their dynamic. I think that would be interesting. But I don't know. You know, there's a lot of things that could happen. And I think you're right. I think that information has to come out.

Yeah, like, because in the trailer, we saw Will kind of like yelling at Lyra, he looks beat up. So it must have been it's now right? Because he's beat up now. And I feel like it would be with this. i don't know there's a couple other mysteries right like uh the witches we have two witches we have someone who is very prominent in this episode which is sasha frost and it turns out if you pay attention to the actual credits at the end sasha frost is credited with playing reina meaty who was a queen of another clan in the books she's only mentioned twice first in the subtle knife in ruda conversation saying she needs to consult with her and then later in the third book she shows up and she's burning some shit down so I don't think that

she's playing Raina Felt here obviously she's credited as Raina Meadey remi milner is credited as playing lena felt who has the longer curly hair and she we might see that plot play out as we mentioned with coulter torturing her but i'm wondering what rain amiti's plot is going to be and if she is going to end up being joe parry which oh that'd be interesting yeah yeah i don't know. It would make sense, right? But that does make sense as to why she was accompanying Serafina, right? To meet with Bruda. It's like all the queens coming together and competing for this thing. So, yeah.

I don't know. I hope she survives to burn some shit down. Yeah. And I guess we'll see obviously more Lee and Grumman we've only got a few more Lee episodes coming up so we have to get that next there maybe it'll be like a buddy

that's another western thing right like buddy cop traveling together yeah you got the shaman and you got the cowboy absolutely the medicine man and the cowboy yeehaw from the country of Absolutely. The medicine man and the cowboy. Yeehaw! Yeah. Country of Texas

and from a hole in the sky. Country of Texas. I love that in this episode when he says country of Texas. I was like, yes. Goddamn. I wonder if Joppery, like, when he first came through and found that out, was like, oh my god. Proud to be a Texan. yeehaw uh well that's all

from us texans this week's this week folks speaking of texans though and lee i will i want to call out we didn't say this at the beginning of the episode but you know our friends at herd dark materials are interviewing lynn mcdwell mir Miranda about his role as Lee. So please check that out. I think when this comes out I don't know that they'll have extended their deadline. They did say get your questions for Lin in by Monday, December 7th.

So you might be able to get it in. Maybe not. Maybe. They are very nice. Maybe you'll be able to sneak your question in. Yeah, maybe, maybe. If you're nice hit him a message i can't wait to listen to that so we'll see you next week hopefully we'll get to listen to that by next week very excited thank you for tuning in as always if you enjoyed listening to us make sure you take a chance and write us a message over at our email if you feel like it girls gone canon

at gmail.com if you have any exciting thoughts uh or if you'd rather send us a tweet you can do that at girls gone canon that is c-a-n-o-n yes and of course catch us here every week you can find us on a number of different platforms such as google play apple podcast spotify podbean where this is all hosted acast stitcher overcast amazon podcasts pandora iheart radio we keep adding more more and more every time look it up you'll find us and if none of those work for you you can always check out our patreon at patreon.com slash girls gone canon where patrons get a special episode every other month that is themed his dark materials for the stranger tier and above or a song of ice and fire theme this coming december

episode will be with the dust podcast matt and holly will join us to break apart some music from the series and we cannot wait join us then as always i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana Thank you. I remember when we said we were going to make this our new intro and we just did it now here right here this is what the people want Eliana this is what they want this is a special moment goodbye everyone

goodbye