Girls Gone Canon Cast - His Dark Materials Series 2 Episode 7 - Æsahættr with Cam aka Candid59

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

Join us for the series (meaning season!) finale of His Dark Materials season 2, in which we get real sad because real sad stuff happens, continue discussing Ariyon Bakare's twitter handle and the mysterious "69," and talk about some of the changes from the books to the show.   Find Cam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/candid59   --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro: Waltz Of The Skeleton Keys by WombatNoisesAudio | https://soundcloud.com/user-734462061  

🎵 Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Watches His Dark Materials, Series 2, Episode 7, Isaheir, featuring Cam, our friend, at Candid59 on Twitter. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, again, today we have another one of your hosts. I'm so excited. Hello, Cam. Thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited to have you. Hello. Hello. Yes, it's Candid59, not Arion69. It's right there staring at me.

So were you born in 1959, Cam? Because I've been trying to understand what the 59 means in your username. We actually have. Oh, well, okay. I was born in 59. But also my parents were born in 1959 so it's kind of like a cool coincidence too both of them so that's what it means maybe that's it that could be Aryan Bakar's reasoning for being Aryan 69 do we think his parents are born in

69 wait no he wasn't born in 71 wow this is going great I mean he could have been born Wait, no, he wasn't born in 71. This is going great. Well, I mean, he could have been born 6-9, which in, well, for us, we would think it's June 9th. But for him, could very well mean September 6th. But he's still alive. He was born July 1st, 1971.

I'm just putting it out there. There's only one explanation. There's only one explanation for his season. Only there. There's only one explanation. There's only one explanation for his season. Only one. He's a time traveler. I mean, that's one way to think about that. Time traveling

in that pussy. So, we're so excited to have our friend Cam who Cam is more than responsible for realizing this odd discrepancy in arian bakar's username cam is full of wonderful insights makes me sad every week on the internet talks about will and lyra all the time it's horrible it's gonna be a great episode i'm excited cam please tell everyone where we can find you besides twitter i know you have an a03

because i looked through all of your favorited AO3 pieces today. I can't believe, first of all, I can't believe you went there. That's quite a deep dive. But no, I don't have any fanfic because I don't write, luckily for everyone.

You guys can just find me at Twitter. Yeah, that's at candid 59 c-a-n-d-i-d 59 and again very excited to have you on so excited to get extremely sad because a lot of sad stuff happened in this episode so that is of course something to say our spoiler warning main trilogy of his dark materials and a little bit of spoiling on the novellas that are side pieces and super super super light references to the sandwich companion trilogy book of dust trilogy uh which is labelle sauvage the secret commonwealth and a unnamed but on its way book yes so tune out now if you are not caught up on that or if you are unwilling to be

spoiled, unwilling to be spoiled. If you have lost your free will to be spoiled. Freedom. That sandwich trilogy is catching on, which I think like it kind of works, you know, because we get a little a little callback to the bacon sandwich this episode. So things are things are working out. They're looking up for me well another thing looking up for you is that series three the coverage of the amber spyglass

from bbc's hbo's his dark materials was confirmed recently literally like yesterday was confirmed yeah yes it is incredibly exciting it's very recent and I think it's I'm just so glad this past season was so good and I'm very excited to see how they bring the Amber Spyglass to life and right now it sounds like they said they're at about what eight episodes but

with a question mark I think they're planning to only do eight episodes yeah Jack Thorne mentioned that he thinks he can With a question mark. I think they're planning to only do eight episodes. Yeah, Jack Thorne mentioned that he thinks he can do it in eight, and that six of the episodes are already outlined and written, and he's submitted them, and that the final two are outlined right now. So he said that it fits well, actually. I saw him, I don't know if it was like a tweet argument or what was going on,

but I did see some tweets where he said that, oh, no, it fits perfectly, actually, so far. So I don't know if it was like a tweet argument or what was going on but I did see some tweets where he said that oh no it fits perfectly actually so far so all right we'll see I know that's quite a challenge it's a lot I don't know I think that's a lot and this is coming from like Game of Thrones fans right like that was maybe could have used a season to marinate you know I don't know so I hope that they do it and i you know what who am i to say they can't because we just watched series two play out and it was amazing uh they made time for some special stuff some new stuff and i think i don't know i think it was way better than series one and not like series one was bad just i think series one was an entry-level piece of fantasy media and it did its job it followed the books pretty well and it wasn't

bad or anything but it was just that it was series one but series two was pretty good pretty epic yeah for sure i i like that they introduced or added writers into or added more writers on board so that really definitely showed in the writing as well that's true really good it did it did and you know i'm hoping we have like similar room etc for the next season and i mean i think part of why i want more than eight episodes it's not just like the spacing and the pacing right it's kind of just like i think that they did do a really good job with series two and i'm like i just want more right yeah for sure i did notice this season the episodes did seem like 10 minutes shorter so they descended it started off at like 50 something minutes and then by the end it was like 36 minutes just putting that out there not

that i'm counting but i was counting yeah so i mean if they do have eight episodes and they used a full hour that's kind of like gaining like another episode that they didn't use for season two that's true so that could be yeah something hopefully that'll help with the time i do wonder if like the shorter episodes right but were those scenes like they weren't able to get to film because that's what i was wondering you know this oh yeah pandemic well and so much got so they they mean they only filmed four hours of the bottle episode right and the last part of the bottle episode we'll talk about later because it was in this episode but they had to move things

around and redistribute some plots so i also wonder aliana to that extent if that is why i know that some scenes were you know re-shot in smaller coordinations or etc so i'm wondering especially like this episode uh the root of scotty stuff we're going to talk about because i'm like that's great but wait a second if episode five was the bottle episode question mark what happened you know i'm just curious of the order so i don't know but i think it'll it could even, I think they have to use the full hour next time. Because, like you said, a whole hour missing? Two hours. I mean, a lot happens.

If you think about it. Yeah, two. Two. I don't want to. But. Two hours, two fingers. All that missing. Everything's connected.

Oh, yeah, that too. Take that too. talk about some dust isn't that like the tagline of too fast too furious eat my dust or something i don't know oh i didn't realize there was a tagline i thought they just called it too fast too no i was literally making that up eliana I trust you too much I'm pretty gullible I'm a regular Lyra silver tongue you know well speaking of silver tongue and speaking of Lyra our favorite girl

what about your favorite part of the episode Eliana what was your favorite part of the episode I know you have to have a favorite part I don't know it's so hard everything was so sad um i loved all of it because it was sad i don't know if i liked it well i liked it because it was well done but it wasn't like it made me feel bad um so i guess it's a it's a it's a toss-up between obviously like will and his dad those scenes but also i think there was a great this is gonna sound bizarre

that this was also one of my favorite scenes the scenes where like lee holds a cloud pine and calls seraphina he's like do you think that's enough and then he's like oh i fucking like the look on his face is like i fucking hope so then he goes back out there and turns out it was enough though but he was just like i don't know what i'm doing that cloud pine was really tiny too like right yeah i would have lost that and if you've never like done magic are you like did i do it did i do magic because you can't see anything do you blow on it after god i i know and that was like the cloud pine was really small but that is you know an example of how much he cared for Seraphina Pecula I'm just putting that out there that that's

an example of his care for his girlfriend before he died you know yup so fucking sad I'm so fucking sad god that was probably my favorite part that my ship my O got to be made canon on screen

and then died immediately. That's my favorite ship, you know? I love ships where they just die immediately after they're made canon. Real fun. But that was good. But it was made canon. I mean, Peckles being- That was not-

Look, even if he's dead, I mean, the kiss, hand on the chest, the sadness, like, this could have been us, but I was playing, I don't know, Pecklesby, Arrow Witch, it was the OTP, now it's over. Yeah, you got a forehead kiss, that's a big win in my book. That's a thank you. I mean, it was. In his dark materials, yeah. I think it was. Most sexy action you've had on screen besides, like, when Coulter killed Boreal. That was also very hot.

That was actually really hot. Very sexy. Very erotic. I was feeling erotic. Yeah, it's literally, though, it's like Marisa and Boreal. Oh my god. But really, that's about the most sex we've had, right, this series. That's the forehead kiss and the boreal and coulter

kiss last series we had coulter and asriel's make out soon which was good but this was this was the sex appeal and uh that was my favorite part yeah all right cam bring it home bring it home well i mean nothing really good happened on this episode but i do do, you guys know me, I love sad parts. And so I'd have to go with the, with also the Will and his dad reunion. If I have to pick like one small part, it is those hero shots of Will wearing his dad's jacket. That looked pretty cool. Yeah. It was, I think I screamed.

No, I didn't scream, but you know, it was like, so screamed no i didn't scream but you know it was like oh so when i saw that oh i cried oh i was crying throughout those last minutes so it was authentic like my emotion during all that like even uh all of it like that last 20 minute run i was legitimately shaking my arms and my boyfriend was sitting next to me and he was just like oh and i was like going my hand covering my mouth like my arms flapping like a fucking harpy i don't know what was going on i was very excited it was very authentic yeah it was a lot i yeah i didn't even expect it to be that much, but it was good. It was good. It was really good.

Yeah. And I mean, like, it wasn't what I expected at the end, but not in a bad way. Honestly, we expected a couple more things, and we can talk about that later. Oh, yeah, for sure. Everything I expected happened, except for the Mulefa. And the two angels, but we'll get to that. Yeah, that too. That too. Okay. and and the two angels but we'll get to that yeah that's it that's it okay what about your favorite part of the series like in total i know this is a big one because the whole goddamn thing was good but the whole authority damn thing was good so it was hard to

pick just one and i think it's gonna be one of the ones from the previous episodes, right? It's either the Will and Jopper-y door parallels, which I think was good, and that's a nice, cool, deep one to make me seem like I'm real intellectual and shit, but really, it's actually Lyra in the multicolored cape coming out and Pandi like, yes! So excited!

That's it! That's the outfit! It's like, yup! Her hype man! Absolutely! That's some soulmate shit shit i wear those kinds of outfits i actually want to see you in like a wild hat i think that's next like a wild but what about you chloe what is your favorite part of the season witch reconstruction right i mean holy so i i drove a handful of hours to see my mom and uh on the way i listened to series one and series two soundtracks i just had that baby shuffling and the track when ruda goes all crazy right she goes wild on uh the magisterium guys with the just the end of the

episode which if you are into the music of His Dark Materials, you'll be able to hear us with the Dust podcast by the end of the month on our Patreon for patrons in the stranger tier and above at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. You'll be able to hear us talk all about the music from this series. I will be listening to it on repeat

for another 12 hours soon, so stay tuned. Check out there for that. But the track when ruda kills the magisterium guys you have the strings at the end they're just like and it's like so fast and so like bam done done with that shit magisterium guy dead it's so good just her murdering the magisterium guys and then also the fact that she still hasn't talked about asriel's dick she's talking about asriel but not as not like asriel's so charismatic and i'm gonna go there's been none of that and it's amazing it's a and it's very obvious that they are doing that intentionally with the witches and that they like i don't know if it's just their own personal feelings or also

listening to fan complaints but the witches needed some work we know that we know that maybe they had a few things in the books that may not have been perfect and i think for the most part they have really mediated on a lot of that and they've said no we're not doing that and they changed it and i think it was great i just think it was good can't wait to see next series good job good work yeah absolutely i think it's made a huge difference having jane tranter you know as executive producer like a woman like at the highest levels of of uh the direction of the show and i mean and having yeah having women in the register makes a huge difference in how like all of this comes across and the choices that are made which are good choices you know i've seen television adaptations of women where it used to be good and then it was bad and yeah i just think about the

samuel l jackson in the avengers when he's like i recognize the council has made a decision but given that it's a stupid ass decision i've elected to ignore it and that's how i feel about the witches in the hdm tv show they're great yeah yeah i definitely agree with that cam what you got mine is pan i love pan this season yes he's so good i love him as red panda i love that we got to hear him talk a lot and uh i also like that they kept the same actor and i had to like check if it was the same actor and it is. And he's doing really great. I also, I don't know, it kind of makes me wonder how they film those.

Or when they do voice acting, do they just watch the scenes and he just records his voice? Because I don't know, it's interesting that he's able to really play off the actors, but they're not really there to act off of. But yeah, that's just something I'm wondering. I know that Cristela Alonso did a lot of the voice acting like, oh, yeah, this year, because of COVID and everything. And like reshoots and stuff. And I know that she set up like a home studio, I think from what she tweeted about and that she was like acting. Yeah, so I'm guessing but I don't I know that was only probably part of the year, right? And a lot of that can probably be done in the after,

so I wonder if most of that was done in the after. For sure. Yeah, I don't actually know. I have been wondering how they do that, because the actors do such a great job of acting off of their demons in many ways. And we've talked a lot about Christelle Alonzo and also Fleabag as actors for

the demons. And props to Kit Conner, who, just like Daphne Keene and Amir Wilson, is also a young actor, right? He's about 16. So he's been doing a great job

as a small, various different kinds of animals yeah mostly a red panda this season yeah fluffy so fluffy and he looks he looks great i love i love the close-up shots of him you could see like every like fur so great yeah all the detail on the panda, especially. Even in the finale, especially, there were some really great shots where we got Pan just like, boop! And also his little ears twitching.

I don't know if you all saw, so Jack Thorne did his Q&A shortly after the episode aired in the UK and was talking about, oh, I forgot who it was. Maybe it was Joel Collins? Yeah, about, ooh, I forgot who it was. Maybe it was Joel Collins? Yeah, it was Joel, I think. Who was advocating when they were trying

to bring to life, what should, what demon should Pan be for the most part throughout the season? And they landed on a red panda and he was advocating hard for it, drew a sign with a little red panda around it to champion his cause, apparently. I'm not trying to play favorites right because

obviously we have a friend in the prop department we're okay with but joel is pretty good man he's a he's funny as hell like all of his tweets when he took over on the q a while back were great and uh i don't know the visual stuff that was done not just with some of the production design from him but even like painting practice all of the work they did for the visual mediums this series was far out the details were intensely amazing and i can't wait to get into them yeah yeah but did he dress in a strange orange suit with a top hat and i don't i don't know camp what was that do you know what that was referencing because i still don't understand jack thornene? Oh, I don't know. I was like,

when he posted that picture, I was like, how dare you? After what you just did. What's happening here? But I don't know what the picture is about. I don't understand what's happening in this image. Jack Thorne. I don't understand what's happening I don't in this image

Jack Thorne please send your answers to at girls gone canon and also at canon59 who quote tweeted it with cert yeah CC me

yes I do wonder what the uh i i wonder why they advocated there was an interview with i think it was russell dodgson and he did kind of talk about red or the different forms of pant of pan i don't know if you guys read that interview. I could totally, I could definitely link it. So this is from Russell Dodgson. And he says, oh, the red panda works well with pan's traditional forms because they're sweet. They're part pear and part mustelid, just like pine martins. The red panda's slight adolescent clumsiness works really well to capture the sense of a teenage girl who's just met an intriguing boy. And they're exotic, reflectingra's strange new surroundings so oh yeah my heart i know i know i love it i love the amount of detail and the amount of care that was the big thing the amount of care

that has been given to this story which i didn't get to grow up with it necessarily but i know obviously eliana you fell in love with it from a young age and so many people have just grown up with this being their childhood and the fact that we have a series where the people that are writing for it give a shit and the people that create the outfits and the props and the sets give a shit and the writers give a shit and also are diverse and think about different ways they can bring people in and not just that but also a diverse cast and they give the cast ways to expand even people like carlo boreal what the hell is carlo boreal gonna do on a screen well arianne becarre just did it that's yeah be fucking hot but uh gonna be an annoying fuck boy that also happens to be hot but no like it it was so good. Nothing,

I couldn't expect in my head how they would have fixed the witches, even though I have 800 ways to fix them. And yet they did it differently and better than I would have. So I'm just grateful. Very grateful. Hashtag grateful. Hashtag blessed. And I mean, yeah. We've been burnt before. Yeah, exactly.

Cam also grew up, right? I did. With this series. It sounds like we read them at around the same time, similar ages. Oh my gosh. What if you're me in another world, or I came from another world? On the East Coast. Oh my god.

I'm so conflicted. Which one of you am I in love with? Oh, no. No, I'm just kidding. It's Eliana. But you're up there, Cam. Keep it up. No, I want you to be loyal to Eliana. I don't want to replace her. If my demon gets touching yours, I mean.

Cam's like, this is too much work and pressure. It is. It is. This is a commitment. I know. Marriage is a commitment. It is. This is a commitment. I know. Marriage is a commitment. It is. Well, I think we're ready, speaking of commitment, to commit to the episode. Let's jump in. Let's get into it. I'm sad. I'm ready to talk about it with you all.

We kind of start off with a pretty hard open. Yeah. We have Reina Meaty, who is recovering from her specter attack, which I was very excited to see them carry over and have it mean something. Some shows don't like to do that, you know, have things mean things. We have a quote from Raina Meady that is, When they had hold of me, I felt numb and so cold. Life or death meant nothing. The witches then plan to depart the world once they find Will's father. Will's pretty against it, right?

once they find Will's father. Will's pretty against it, right? And at first, I didn't really think about it deeper than I needed to, especially with the last two episodes. He's been frustrated with his hand, and he just has been like, no, I don't want to go anywhere, Lyra, let's not go. But I guess here, it's pretty obvious he's really against them going to another world, not just for reasons of it being insane, but also like kind of obvious throughout the episode, like losing his mom and never being able to get back to her like his dad did, finding his father and not being able to let him go, becoming like his father, right? Like he's afraid of that idea of just never coming back. But here specifically, it also is reminiscent of Lyra's reading of the Alethiometer.

It hasn't really been often, but the times we've seen it in this series, it's been reiterating Will's importance as the knife bearer and his connection to Chidigatse. So as his path is moving forward, as he learns at the end of this episode in a way different way than what he expected, it wasn't just, Will, you're important to Chidigatse, which is what he's thinking. It was also, Will, you're important to chitigatse which is what he's thinking it was also will you're important to the whole grand picture like you have to help attack dethrone god buddy i don't think he was expecting that i think he just thought this knife was like you got to go fight specters and chitigatse all the time and he's meant for much greater he's meant to pick up a mantle right yeah yeah he was like i gotta get this knife because it's

gonna help lyra get her lithiometer back and i can meet my dad he's just like i don't know it's a cool knife i can probably cook things better with it actually he could cook things that's against the rules that is against the four basic rules we talked about this eliana i don't think cooking is base but that's just my opinion it is art no base knife it is high art oh my god you gotta eat though i was gotta eat yeah feed that girl but yeah from there we move on to ruda eavesdropping on the cliff gas and they are crawling and speaking of war. I'm so excited we got this scene. It was such a small scene that I was like, what? We're getting the cliff gas scene for the books? Very evil monkeys in Wizard of Oz. Honestly, they look very much like the monkeys. They have a cute, ugly little face. I love it. And we did see them in the preview.

We saw this shot in the preview of them scaling the wall in the trailers we talked about it and i was like i almost wondered if they were cliff ghasts or harpies turns out they're ghasts and very cute you can kind of see their like fabric-y legs which is kind of funny but real cute real cute yeah and um i know i i thought that they would be cute they weren't cute in the way that i thought and i couldn't tell if one was older than the others but they were still cute I thought it's interesting that you were talking about them being monkey like because there

was a point in the episode where I was like oh it kind of reminds me a little bit of I mean we get a lot of monkey stuff throughout this episode and the entire series that's a great point I didn't really think about that yeah with Colter too acting like a monkey yeah

yeah and that is very much right like her sicking the monkey for example is totally you think of coulter as the evil witch sicking her monkeys right or wait oh coulter with the specters fly my pretties oh that is i mean Thank you. I am a luminary. Everyone just come. No, but it is. And I don't know. I feel bad for the monkey.

I don't want to call him those monkeys, but we'll get to him. Or monkey. There were no Mulefa in the intro. Y'all. There were no Mulefa in the intro. I looked very hard. I slow-mo watched.

I put my face up to the screen. What was the point? What was the point? What was the point? You know? Yeah. I talked to myself for two seconds. I was like, is the elephant symbol that's been there the whole time? But the Mulefa, then I was like, no, it's not.

But. Yeah. The only thing I did notice that was new. Or it was new to me. And rewatch, was the waterfalls. Because I think we got to see them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We got to finally see them in this episode.

So I was like, oh, so that's what that was about. So that was pretty cool when I did my rewatch. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I was just like, there's been water there. Whatever. I don't know where this is but that's fun that's pretty yeah it was the gulch the whole time oh no oh no they were always coming to this they're actually I feel like every week I find something new in the intro even though I watch it every week maybe they're sneaking new things into it and we're not

but I don't know I mean this was there I think a few weeks ago and I kept forgetting to bring it up so right after the two lines as the intro starts collide we see the little burst of dust and it's the angel wings in it I never noticed there's this one stream of dust

that seems to form swoosh and looks kind of like the Omega symbol right above, right in between those wings. So it's very subtle, if you will. And I've never really considered also the

significance until recently. Maybe someone else has, that the single symbol on the lithiometer that we see the dust forming and create actually creating is the alpha and omega symbol which is often used to allude to god so yeah and that's interesting because it feels like everything in this intro has mostly finally come to life in this series right in series two like uh we we saw the alpha and omega symbol featured in the cave it was very prominently featured in that one episode where you saw them overlaid just like that to symbolize god and all the stuff happening on the cave in general right but it feels like

the cave was the biggest part of that it brought the intro to life completely this series i'm excited to see what we add to the next one. I know, obviously, the Amber Spyglass might be our next flipping around on the screen zoom in. And I can't wait to see that design. That is going to be a prop design for the ages. I'm going to buy all of them. When they come out with collectibles, I'm buying all of them, motherfuckers.

I'm going to buy ten of them. I don't even care. I'm going to use them every day. What about a blanket? And a blanket. Foreshadowing. It is. They did, you're right, bring the intro into the series.

I think there's only, there's a few series that I've seen that do it that well. One of them in a very, very different manner, but that did it well, was Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Very different vibe entirely. But. Yeah. I've got to finish that. I got through like five episodes. Oh, I love it.

It's one of my favorite series highly recommend i'll go back i'll go back to it i love that intro for sure hdm not crazy x i i don't remember how crazy ex-girlfriends go but i did watch a couple of episodes too i the singing there was singing right yeah oh yeah there is music yeah it's a musical yeah it's one of those we gotta get an hdm musical episode they did they did use some of those plays um but yeah yeah well will receives a vision of joppery and talks to pan His father is summoning him, and Will tells Pan that Lyra is his best friend, and Pan says, you're hers too. Aww.

Aww. Beautiful moment. I was like, wow, they're really just gonna start and they're just gonna do this for the job. Yeah, they just did that, because I was wondering if we'd get that- I think I knew we were gonna get that scene, but I didn't know it was gonna be so soon in that episode.

Isn't it jarring when they do these scenes that you know you love and like you're in but like and maybe again maybe this is literally trauma from Game of Thrones but like I don't expect them to do the scenes I love I don't expect the good shit to come to the screen and then all of a sudden they'll be like word for word quoting the books and I'm like what I was thinking that too especially with the hester scene where she said you know we we held out and i was like wow they did the whole quote amazing i mean it's classic you can't ruin a classic quote if you're given a amazing fantasy series and you have a quote that anyone can quote to you from this fantasy series because everybody that's read it knows it.

Right. Like your sister. But you can't just fuck up those quotes. Like it's like what if Han Solo looked at Leia and didn't say I love you at the end? You know what I mean? And she didn't say I know. Like, what are you doing? It's a different situation, but it's like just wrong. So I'm really glad they did that. And I love that, like, I don't know, they read all the lantern slides, they read the novellas, they read everything. And they put in all these tiny details, like for Lee, as we're going to get to lots of Once Upon a Time in the North. And even here, this little scene from the books where Will tells Pan how Lyra is his best friend uh it reminds me of this lantern slide from the end of the subtle knife i want to say we've talked about it recently but we're gonna bring it

back up because i'm sad and that is she to god say under the moonlight deserted silent open the colonnades drenched in soft shadow the casino garden so perfectly clipped and swept, the gravel paths, every house lit, every door opened to the warm night. It was the first place Will had ever felt entirely safe and entirely welcome and entirely at home. Lonely, yes, at first, but he lived in that condition like a fish in water. He would never know how inconceivably strange he appeared at first to Lyra. Cool. So we're all sad? Everyone feeling good? I don't think that's right.

Yeah, I know. We're making our way. I did like when Pan, when he says, oh, you're her best friend too, and he kind of did like, he got a little flustered there. Like, oh. Like, oh, shit, I said too much.

Go to sleep. He's so cute. Go home, Pan, you're drunk. That's, like, my favorite thing, even in the books. It's like, Pan, she knows what you said, no matter what. Like, she's going to wake up and know. You're literally part of her. He's out there wingmanning. Or I guess he doesn't have wings right now but right he could and that's why this is one

of those things there are many of these throughout this episode where i take umbrage with philip pullman saying well not saying but like the idea that i too have a demon because fuck if i could have had like some other cool animal like speak on behalf of me you know winning lovers to my side oh yeah you'd be like you'd end up like mrs coulter settle down you'd be out there like i'm gonna raise a specter army too much power eliana too much power i don't know about that i hope not holy shit i mean maybe i could i think so. Joppery and Lee abandon the balloon. Next, it's not gonna happen, right? They're like, ooh, better run, better go on foot.

This'll give us away. Lee tells Hester that he feels like an insect on the ground with everyone else, and then they set off. That stood out so hard to me, that line. Especially because, obviously, he's gonna feed insects soon. Literally, though, he does. What is is it during the yorick chapter during the chapter when yorick comes to eat his body we have that line of the witch's spell was broken now the rest of the body was free to all who came soon it would be nourishing a dozen different kind of life uh avoiding all the jokes

here right it does remind me of the underworld in a couple ways of how he's saying he ends up with all the other tiny insects trapped here on the ground under god's shoe right and that's actually kind of what happens here after he dies he goes and he's trapped under god's shoe well that is a case and it's interesting considering that lee not being an insect right because many of the magisterium's demons are insects but I was also yeah like the spider

which I guess is technically not an insect but ignore me the beetle or whatever the fly things like that but also I don't know it It was just sad. I think they did that scene where he's like,

I guess we're not an aeronaut anymore. And I was like, no, that's sad. I don't know. Yeah, that doesn't make you not an aeronaut, though. But it is sad because that's his thing. That's his balloon. He won it. He's slowly losing, like,

big things as we slowly lose him it was it was pretty fast to be honest but yeah it was interesting how it was dragged between the episodes and like i i need to re-watch it as an overarching season i feel like to really reaffirm my emotions because i don't know if it dragged out like that was better or if it would have been better like in one episode that he was in the gulch but i don't think time allowed for it that's for sure especially like for the next scene with marisa right uh marisa has to have her time and she got say which i'm fine give her the goddamn emmy we get it okay shit god every single scene i would just yell at the screen just give her the fucking emmy already

okay we get it you're good yeah she ends up finding will and lyra's shelter too and like it's just a beautiful scene and all slow-mo and she's clutching the jacket and all to her and sad but again some of it got a little heavy to me i would have hoped for a little more lee just because we get her for another season come on yeah uh Yeah. The way that she turns around, though, when she enters their what was their home, right? Feels a lot like the scene where she turned around and first saw that specter when she was traversing Chittagatse in that that nighttime scene and entering Will's world. She like pauses and she's like, what is that? She's like, peace. She's like, what is that? She's like, peace. And there's also something kind of like, it feels intimate for her to be in Lyra's space,

but also invasive, because Lyra's not there. And she's exploring the place, and it did remind me of Lyra exploring Mrs. Coulter's apartment in season one. So that's what it made me think of oh you know even as far as like how her demon uh you know we see in the apartment her demon checking on lyra and kind of creeping her out and she gets caught by the witch right in a minute so with the separate demon etc interesting yeah that jacket it was a deep whiff like a that made me uncomfortable i'm like what that probably smells terrible yeah yeah it doesn't smell like baby you know like not like that little girl that she saw in

the stroller it does not smell like that. No, it smells like probably a lot, a lot of different things. That's not been washed. No. She doesn't believe in that. Lyra's like, I don't wash clothes. Not myself.

Not this. Her sniffing her shirt was the funniest part. And it's supposed to be emotional but i'm like no that smells so bad what are you doing a mother a mother would be like oh she's gotta wash this yeah if you were a real mom marisa you'd start doing laundry okay start cleaning the place up oh this place this place is filthy, Lyra. What have you been doing in here? I mean, she can smell this, but she's disgusted by a pair of jeans.

That's true. Great point. She's a woman of depth. Okay, I'd like you all to know that Marisa Coulter is a woman of fine taste and depth that maybe you just don't understand. And not smell. She contains multitudes. Multitudes. The witches

decide to go scouting ahead. Raina Meady stakes out where the specters are on their path while Lena Felt ends up going to check on the woman that she saw in Chidagatse with a demon. Serafina wishes her sisters to be safe and off they fly. Yes, and it's somewhere around here, right?

I don't remember exactly, and they don't outright say it, but in the books, they do say that the witches regard Will with suspicion, because they're like, why the fuck doesn't his wound heal? And while Lyra and Pan are watching, maybe it's a little later lyra and pan are watching seraphina tend to will's wounds and seraphina kind of gives will a dirty look like what is wrong with you i do not like the boy my daughter brought home and then will's looking at her like well fuck you too mary next departs from angelica and pa Paula she delivers them to the gulch yeah I saw I know you guys talked about Lord of the Flies a lot and um that's always been on my mind whenever I

see the Chigatse kids um and I think about how easily they could have suffered the same fate as those kids from Lord of the Flies. Because the subtle knife reminds me of the conch in Lord of the Flies, which becomes this symbol of power and authority. The conch or the appointed leader gets to hold the conch. And whenever the boys have meetings, the conch gets passed around to whoever wants to speak. Long story short, since you guys talked about a lot of what happens in the book, that power ends up getting abused and overridden as the kids descend into savagery. But luckily, we don't have to see those kids go through this here in the show, as Mary leads them back to their adults, much like how the surviving kids at the end of Lord of the Flies get rescued by adults.

However, I think if they were able to get the subtle knife, it might have brought more problems than good because of how much power it holds and how much they don't know how much power it has because they don't have Mr. Paradisi. And one of the rules of being a bear is to not use it for a base purpose. So I feel like that's what would have ended up happening had the kids had the knife and that's so yeah and so mary or the kids ask her to stay with them and it it is very sad when i think about how there's all these adults ready to literally risk their lives to help lyra and Will because they just happen to be the children of the prophecy. They're the chosen two. But these poor kids are just collateral damage in this

this big war and they're just left behind to fend for themselves. So I think for the show to at least allow us to see Mary help them guide them back to adults who can look after them hopefully is gratifying to see since this is a hanging strand that never gets picked back up again in the books i think that's really a lovely thing right especially for mary to be the one to bring them to their family and i love getting to see mary with other children has really been awesome her niece and nephew and even with angelica and paula uh it's really sad and it is unfair right like will and lyra get every fucking mentor from here on out right in the series like and obviously shit sucks in the amber spy glasses and we do not have to talk about

it right this moment because it's gonna come come up later. But shit absolutely sucks. And Will does still get to at least be with Mary, right? Someone who understands what he's been through. And these poor young kids are traumatized. There aren't any other kids that they know right now or adults they can talk to that could understand how their childhood has just been taken from them. And they never had good role models around to teach them wrong from right or this or that. And something big they did earlier was, you know, taking the pop and giving it to Will and Lyra and just Will trying to pay for it and showing that juxtaposition of Will against these children

that just take what they want, like little mini magpies running around the city wild. And I still have my gripespes as we talked about last week with how paula and angelica were presented and how we didn't really get like for what you said the subtle knife we didn't see them with the guns running around shooting them off and hurting themselves like that's the biggest part of it that like these kids have no clue what they're doing and they have guns and other weapons they've crafted and no adult supervision and they're out there in the street playing guns and killing each other on accident, their own people. And they don't have anyone to say, hey, have you tried doing this instead?

Yeah. It's a bummer. And I really like the point that you brought up about the conch and likening the subtle knife to the conch. And, you know, in regards to that idea of the children not knowing what they're doing i mean the knife itself right they wouldn't as you said they might not know what to do with it or it would be used for base purposes obviously they're using it to protect themselves but what happens if they stay with it long enough right it devolves into an even darker version of the guild perhaps right i mean the knife in and of itself isn't just a

thing that wards off specters it's a knife it's a weapon yeah for sure mary declines to stay with the children and as she says no blue rose petals filter in on the wind and she bends over and smells them this was so exciting to me because the blue flowers from the show are actually in the books. She does see beautiful blue flowers. She sees petals rolling in a blue flower head bending and swaying on the landscape when she gets there and poppies and buttercups. The casual beginning of flowers just filtering into the story around Mary Malone and her helping children live better lives is really great framework they did a great job and I can't wait to watch her in series yeah she had like the best time in this series or this uh well series two while everyone else is stressed and

I do love like she's uh there's a lot of like flora and fauna like association with Mary and like even her in her office there's you see a lot of plants and that bonsai tree that you guys brought up would bring up I think that was a great way to like establish of like uh to show like where her journey is headed yeah we'll talk about it a bit because there's other floral and fauna things that come up for her in this episode we see it again and we see more we see some red flowers growing on vines and it it's very uh reminiscent of the end of the amber spy glass if you've ever read it or heard of it never heard of it i don't suggest it i don't think you should. Never smelt it. Never heard of it. Don't know what you're talking about.

Never smelt it. Never dealt with it. Oh my god. After all this, Lyra and Will each want a different direction. They debate what to do with the witches. Will, for obvious reasons, wants to go find his dad and thinks

that that takes priority over the witches slowing them down and lyra says that the witches will keep them safe she confronts him about his conversation with pan that she overheard she's afraid to let him down and fail him like she feels she did with her friend roger and right when lyra says i've had a best friend you actually hear roger's theme play heartbreak yeah very sad i didn't catch that the roger cars yeah the life and death i thought it was just the life it's just the life but i mean it's basically the death okay oh no i love it it's a great catch oh I'm sure you guys will talk more about those moments in your podcast with the dust podcast

so I'm excited for that yeah I'm glad they brought like Roger in because at first like during the conversation Pan and Will had I was like damn fuck Roger right about best friends and then they Will had, I was like, damn, fuck Roger, right? About best friends. And then they brought him up.

I was like, good. Again, right? Because I sat there and was like, oh, no, what if they don't bring Roger back into this? And they do it. I didn't even think they were going to do it. And they did it. They closed the loop on the conversation. They followed through.

Yeah. God, the bare minimum. minimum you know that's all i'm asking for and they did it i loved it and thankfully this conversation goes great right like the last time that lyra was all i messed up with my best friend talking to will the last few times it didn't always end so well he didn't seem to come to acceptance but he does come to acceptance here and he's like you're not gonna let me down lyra we make each other stronger and he tells her this is our journey now i'm sorry i tried to get through the sentence but it really hurt he says it's their journey it's a temporary one i'm so sorry and we get a shot of them framed by a tunnel passage a rite of passage you will, that visually represents the journey that they contemplate embarking on their own.

As they realize that they can't always rely on the protection of others, or at the very least, they eventually will have to start making their own decisions. Because that's part of growing up. And this kind of scares Lyra. Because she may trust Will, She may trust other people. But she still can't quite trust her own judgment. Because it's what cost her Roger in the past. And she doesn't want the same to happen to Will. Yeah, like you were saying, I absolutely agree.

It's Lyra growing up, realizing her actions have consequences. And whereas before, she'd just do whatever she wanted. Was really willful and free. And often quite disobedient towards adults. Now she's afraid to go against Seraphina's wishes and hurt her or maybe hurt Will and I think there's also

an aspect of all this where part of me wonders, I mean Will's not really wrong he's kind of right. Spectres do end up getting the witches here because Lyra wasn't ready to go off on her own um at this moment as they present her in the story and is seeking that protection from these witches who are kind of acting in the role of their uh mentors protectors and then lena and reina right they end up getting eaten by specters and the only reason that seraphina

doesn't is because she was called away and lyra tells her, you know, go ahead. And I think there's an argument like that's kind of in a different light, you know, when you think of how the children of Chittagatse are all alone now, right? Because, I mean, all the adults around them were either eaten or some of them fled. So, I mean, like, you can look at that in one of two ways as to who's right or not. But also on a rewatch regarding this scene specifically in the about roger i think another thing that prompts lyra to bring up roger in this discussion of best friends is the nature of what will's mission specifically is because will's trying to find his father and lyra knows that she can probably trust the alethiometer and

all this but in her own quests previously in the first season first book to find like her father right it leads to her losing her best friend so the idea of finding fathers and best friend hurt these are connected in lyra's mind because of trying to bring lord asriel the alethiometer and then she's like oh shit now roger's dead and so i kind of wonder she's like oh no what's gonna happen now with my new best friend on another father finding quest that's a really great connection and that's the fear right he has the same fears of you know finding his father but the opposite fears she has the fear of being like her father and he has the fear of being like his father and she has the fear of being like her father and he has the fear of being like his father and she has the fear of being like her mom and he has the fear of not being able to

protect her mom and it's just really interesting how they're played against each other especially in reading the alethiometer and how she reads it for him in the end of this series here right like especially it's really painful yeah painful i just want them to go home and have some Chocolato. Chocolato. Yeah. That's just. Not Chocolittle. Chocolato.

Just Chocolato. A lot. Chocolato. Hired. Yeah. I never thought about that connection about how she might be traumatized by realizing, oh, he's going to find his father and he might die right after it well but the bad thing happens to lyra not yeah yeah and his dad man not to will will just has trauma worse your mom comes

for a visit yeah something does happen but not in the way she thinks it will. Yeah, it will. I was gonna say, like, you could have just stopped that at, Lyra has trauma. Now we have Will has trauma. Kids have trauma now. The Chittagati kids have trauma. Lena Felt's about to have trauma. Well, she's not gonna have it for long unfortunately fuck it really sucks she gets to meet mrs coulter which tragically as most witches who meet her

uh everything human within her is taken away by a specter dude it fucks me up that like mrs coulter as she you know first she like holds her up right and she dies to the specter and then after she's like already kind of eaten, then Mrs. Coulter gently strokes her cheek affectionately. And I'm like, what the fuck? It's a little heebie-jeebie. And she's real affected. It's very obvious that she is. Mrs. Coulter is a little out of it right now, as we discussed.

She's into stinky jackets. And at first she's a shaken. She attacks with her demon right she sticks her demon on her she does that you know the whole sick thing it's great and then she uses the specters to torture lena felt to reveal that lyra is eve so we finally get the whole she's eve mother of all blah blah and coulter's like oh my god how could i not have figured it out in the last eight episodes in In the last, like, ten years. When she had that too.

She's just doing the best she can. There's, okay, you know I was freaking out during this scene about her sicking the specters on the monkey. What the, get this monkey away from her. Call monkey protective services. I've had it with this woman and her treatment of her demon this monkey doesn't deserve that again the monkey is just like the shigatse kids if this monkey could have had a nice person as its partner maybe it would have turned out a little differently okay something that i did notice in this episode and the way

that culture acts and the way that she you know hurts the monkey in this scene at one point, kicks him, whatever, yada yada. There's a lot of self-harm in it. Coulter throughout the season has kind of been doing a lot of self-harmy things, get to the edge, think about jumping in season one, you know. things, get to the edge, think about jumping in season one, you know, and it's call of the void in a way. Like she has the call of the void, which really fits well as we go forward for her later plot. She's living in a world she can't control and her immense self-control that she does have, like in commanding the specters and that kind of negative, negative capability, so to speak. A lot of that seems rooted in self-harm and self-loathing and hatred. She gets close to the edge and then laughs into the abyss. She walks on the rooftop.

This is a subset of intrusive thoughts, the call of the void. It's high place phenomenon, jerk the wheel, jump off, throw yourself in the waves. And everyone has this within them. Like 100% of people have called the void within you. You may not have thoughts of self harm, you may not want to take your life, but you have these thoughts because we're human. And it's, it's a couple things. In 2012, Jennifer Hames led a study at the Department of Psych at Florida State about called the void calling it the high place phenomenon and said, ultimately, it's the mind's weird way, paradoxically speaking, of appreciating life, right? It's the way that your brain is trying to appreciate that it's alive. The 19th century philosopher Kierkegaard, who wrote The Concept of Anxiety, would say something different. He whose eye happens to look down into the yawning abyss becomes dizzy, but what is the reason for this? It's just as much in his own eyes and in the abyss. Hence, anxiety is the dizziness of freedom. Marisa is free, quote unquote, this

series, right? She's gone free. She just freed herself of her last piece of baggage in the next last episode. And this seems to track. In Jennifer Habe's study, a bit over 50% of subjects who felt the call of the void said they did not have tendencies to end their life. And they didn't plan for anything, right? They didn't want to jump in the moment. And that is a lot of times how it goes. Suicide tends to be more methodical. It's not something that's always a quick decision. a quick decision and it feels purposeful that marisa's being shown having this call of the void because when she does choose in series three in the amber spyglass to jump into the abyss it's not for herself it was planned it wasn't planned in that moment but it's a sacrifice for lyra and for the world for lyra and she didn didn't, I think Coulter has known this whole time

that to be a better person and to change, she has to do something big. And I think at that moment, when she gets to that ledge, it clicks and it makes sense, but that's the choice, right? She's had this call of the void since series one that we're seeing play out with her on the roof,

her here, her hurting herself, hurting her demon. And in series three three we'll see that call of the void answered. Yeah, my anxiety does not feel like the dizziness of freedom. I don't agree with that either, truly. I did feel dizzy today, but I wasn't sure

if it was from anxiety. Or freedom. Or freedom. Was it freedom? I'm so dizzy-ass free right now. I forgot Kierkegaard. or freedom or freedom wasn't freedom so dizzy ass free right now got Kierkegaard stuck up bitch but yeah absolutely

I think that's a great analysis of what's going on with Mrs. Coulter and how it ties into her later story absolutely and they really played up throughout series 2 and build on it definitely yeah this was nerve-wracking i was like what the fuck that's you well i don't understand why you why are you trolling yourself like this

that leads us to lyra consulting pan she doesn't think that will has the right idea in ditching the witches and he agrees rudauta arrives and Lyra is shocked to see that there's a witch. There's a really good VFX fake out here and I think that has a lot to do with the fabric of the dresses being this blend and shred of the black and green. When Ruta arrives Lyra thinks it's a specter at first. You get the music, you get scared, you're like oh no specter attack but then she lands and Lyra's like, whoa, you're a witch. And it's a really interesting fake out. And it's great to once more, especially with the last episode when Serafina was like, I hate those books that your father read you.

It's great for Lyra to be like, whoa, another witch. And you're even cooler. Yeah. And when Lyra says you're a witch and she's just like, and you're Lyra. yeah and when uh lyra says you're a witch and she's just like and you're lyra i thought there'd be like a longer or they would kind of expand their meeting more but that was the last of it with ruden i i have questions about all that like timeline wise especially because then in this episode as we go on seraphina is going to send her away. And then she comes back and she's like,

Asriel was great. I'm here. Just got some cocktails. It's all good. I think there might be a little moving around happening behind the scenes. There is what I'm thinking. I think that might be something affected by the bottle episode. And by COVID.

Yeah. COVID has affected everyone's travel, to be honest. In other worlds. Yeah honest in other worlds hysterical it hasn't affected the Magisterium's travel they arrive on land Stanislaus Grumman aka Joppery

and Lee Scoresby it's not said out right here but when we see those Magisterium soldiers it is mentioned in the books that they realize that those soldiers who followed them from from lyra's world are not from will's world and not from chitagatse um in remarking how they have no demons these soldiers do have demons and it's much more subtle how it's depicted but these soldiers are severed as their demons fly really high and far ahead of them as they're scouting uh lee and

jobbery i'm really glad you said that because i one i only noticed the lead guy right the unmasked guy i didn't really pay attention but i did think i was like wait a second is he supposed to be severed and obviously we know marisa has that army right in the books she talks about her army of men that she's severed that respond to her every will. It was cool to see that. I was interested to see them grab that together. Ruta brings news of the war and Asriel's intentions back to the witches. It turns out Asriel's gonna attack and dethrone God. Seraphina says Ruta must go to Asriel, that Seraphina will make sure Lyra fulfills her destiny. Ruta talks about the cliff gas conversation, that they need to find Isahater.

Rain immediately arrives from flying over the path and announces the way ahead is clear, so they set out to find Jabari. You know, Serafina says that Lyra's fate is to end destiny. She even says explicitly to bring free will. And I'm just like well you know earlier in the previous episode she's wondering she's like will are you the boy who's supposed to travel with lyra that's spoken of in this prophecy that i know about and i'm just like so are the will like are the witches just not into wordplay do they just like not like puns because she explicitly says free will and i'm like everyone should have just watched the movie pokemon 2000 the witches should have watched the movie pokemon

2000 in which there's a prophecy about the three legendary birds and lugia and it says i'm not gonna read the whole thing i'll just get to the part that's important where does disturb not the harmony of fire ice or lightning lest these titans wreak destruction upon the world in which they clash though the water's great guardian shall rise to quell the fighting alone its song will fail lest the earth shall turn to ash and everyone's like oh that means that the whole world is gonna turn like and fall apart and burn up but no it was about the earth turning to ash ketchum and i feel like that's what's happening here in this prophecy that the witches have what's not clicking which is what isn't clicking okay but not to go off topic but does that mean that entei in pokemon 3 is molly's demon

and is there something to grasp in her with the growing up aging down thing that she does in the visions interesting why haven't we covered the pokemon movies is my next question do you want to cover them i kind of actually do i kind of actually do that but that movie kind of freaked me out that one was like real spooky i loved that movie it was so fucked up molly was so weird i love that little girl uh also are the unknown dust are they angels i don't know it's a good question and it's the opposite because molly gets her parents back at the end you know liar loses them forever before we cover all the movies sorry pay attention to this someday you guys because we'll have it on our Patreon.

I don't know. I don't know where we're going to have these episodes. I digress. Also, is this because I sent you that Pokemon meme earlier? Kinda. It was partially inspired by that, so it was top of mind. But also, Pokemon's always top of mind. Cool. Cool, cool. Yeah.

Great thoughts, and you know what? I love i do want to say i love how uh that's very greek mythos too right the titans the beast of the sea with the three different titans that i thought you meant um the the part about the prophecy and historic materials oh no i'm still talking about pokemon i'm still on pokemon everyone well lee and jopperper get spotted after all this Pokemon talk. They were standing around talking about Pokemon for far too long, and they get spotted. They run. Battle ensues.

Lee is like, Mr. Grumman, I got you. Go ahead. They share a little quick moment goodbye, and Grumman looks at him and he's like, God damn, you are the best man in the universe, and, you know, he's gonna die later, so. Sad. Sad shit. And then Marie sends her you are the best man in the universe and you know it's gonna die later so sad sad shit and then marisa and her demon scale the tori deli angeli and it comes to blows between the two mostly by

marisa leave him alone leave him the fuck yeah really dusty vibes from the scene um as in book of dusts five vibes also i noticed she says you're either with me or against me to the monkey which we also hear as we'll say later on as he's appealing to the angels so self-assured and firm in his beliefs you know he's with his demon right right beside him they're united um in contrast we've seen marisa struggle internally quite a few quite a lot during this season and we see her struggle again here but she's still at odds with her monkey with and with herself that she feels the need to beat herself up for it because she's unsure if she can or should protect lyra yeah i i'm not sure i thought that uh that was an interesting language parallel with Asriel

and yeah I'm not really sure I'm trying to figure out what is going on what she's at odds with in herself but as she starts to become on the same page right as herself Mrs. Coulter she gets down on her hands and knees and mimics the body language of her demon I don't know if it's to persuade him or to to show like that they are sinking but i i'm not sure yet like what she's unsure of i mean she's unsure of herself i guess and unsure of what path to take right because i mean that's the thing is like we talked a little bit about how this is supposed to be kind of a surprise plot when she takes lyra because you know it builds up you're like oh she's gonna get lyra she's gonna hurt her and then you open up to the third book and it's like no sweet lyra i'm just poisoning you so you can sleep better honey oh my beautiful girl uh

ulu gotta love her you know gotta love mrs cole do you i do but i i think there's a big part of that of like she doesn't know what to do. She knows that Lyra is even that she wants to protect her in her toxic way. But like, how can you protect someone when you can't even protect yourself from all the bullshit you've been through in your life? And it turns you into a hollow shell of a person. And you just lash out at everyone because everything in your life has been so unfair. And then it turns into you're a miserable villain.

Anyways, but do you guys catch that? Everyone got that? Good. and then it turns into you're a miserable villain anyways but did you guys catch that everyone got that good but i i just think like she's not sure of herself and she hates herself so much but at the same time she like thinks that the only way through is one way and i think she changes right i think maybe this is where she changes what she was going to do maybe she decides all right i know where i'm taking her i got the idea she knew before but here she's like really at odds with herself she's fighting herself every step of the way and as you mentioned last episode about her outfit looking kind of more like a safari outfit

and i know you're going to talk about it in a moment she's even mirroring lyra right in the color choice of that cream lyra comes into this series wearing that cream explorer jacket that Colter, God bless her, breathed in so deeply, and now you see her walking around the tower where Lyra just was in her cream safari outfit.

Yeah. She should have tried to put on Lyra's jacket. That would have been a good parallel with Will at the end of the series. Or the end of the season. I don't know if it would have fit. But now I'm like, is there something there? I mean, there is something there with the jacket, right?

Yeah, she's in this explorer outfit that is very much like a safari outfit. Mrs. Coulter sniffs it. It's almost like she's getting Lyra's scent. And then we see Mrs. mrs culture really retrace all the steps that lyra has taken when she went to chittagatse right she finds a house then she goes to the tower she goes all the way up to the tower to where the that skirmish took place right and then um as she nears the gulch she seems like she's about to go in one direction then suddenly turns as though like oh no i should go in this one right as though she suddenly like senses the direction that lyra is

in and it's really very much um like she's on a safari like she's hunting big game she's hunting lyra and tracking her um as she wears this outfit yeah especially with the scent yeah yeah the smelling the sniff the big whiff was the tracker where's that where's that horrible scent yeah i'm kind of surprised she didn't like have the specter smell it first you know here boy yeah that is a mom thing to do find that terrible smell track you down tell you to go take a shower. Take a shower. Oh, goodness. Yeah, it's very predatory now that I think about it. And I guess that's interesting for a monkey.

Some monkeys are. Not all, right? Mm-hmm. Not all. They do reconcile, though, with Lyra being special and vowing to find her. Yeah, and again, with that language where she says, I will find her, not we, when she's talking to the monkey poor monkey yeah she stands in the window of the tour d'alien jolie with her hand outstretched summoning specters and eliana this is a direct parallel

to your joppery in the doorframe summoning will parallels. Yes, but from the front. Yeah. Speaking of some dusty vibes, I mentioned in series two earlier on about the light flowing through those interlocked windows looking like dust, and we get this beautiful shot of Marisa in the tower

with that light streaming through, and she's surrounded by little specks of gold on the ground and it looks again, dust floating all around her is what it looks like. Yeah. And you can see Mr. Paradisi behind her. Poor guy. I didn't even realize that

until you pointed it out. I saw people say that but I didn't look hard enough. Me neither. I was like, holy shit, no that i know somebody give that man a burial who's gonna but who's gonna do it he's just gonna decompose there maybe that's a metaphor yeah probably lee descends the alamo gulch deciding that it's time to go all in, and Lyra and Pan have a conversation

about change, worrying that a great change is starting. Lyra's loins! I'm so sorry. Well, you're not. I agree. And also, all this talk of Pan's final form and changing, when he

ends up settling as a red-gold Pine Martin, which actually just looks like a skinny red panda tbh it's true it's it's true yeah and actually i first i know we saw pan change into a pine martin before but i forgot that he ends up being a red gold pine martin so i had to like um when i was reading a certain scene in Amber's spyglass, uh, it says that he's a red gold pine Martin. So it all just clicked with me.

Yeah. And also during this, uh, conversation with pan Lyra's hair is half of her hair is like pin back. Half is down as if she's, I don't know, given up fixing it or can't decide. And I know this kind of happens throughout

this episode and maybe even last, but I wasn't sure if it was like a continuity error, or maybe it's kind of showing that she's in this transition, that she's changing, but she's not ready to. You know, she's

not a girl, not yet a woman as britney spears would say not yet a woman trying to find the woman in me oh i didn't know the other lyrics she needs time a moment that is mine while we're in between going anyways anyways don't test me that's a great album oh also that's a great call i didn't know i think in the music video she's isn't she like on rocks or i don't know oh yeah yeah we should include this in our uh in our episode about music music in and about the worlds of britney spears wrote this song about lyra lyra's jacket has these really awesome vertical textures on it it's like these vertical stitches it's it might just be the fabric right it

might be the denim-y textured fabric but it has vertical texture stitches that remind me of the strands of dust from the cave and from the intro yeah yeah yeah and then we also come to mary reading from the book of changes in a cavern and i will just say it is Mary speaking or communing with dust in a cave amazing big gasp amazing that's it that's the inside of the cave that's it

I have the shocked Pikachu face on you know what everyone pack it up episode's over thank you everyone then we have you know more petals swooping You know what? Everyone pack it up. Episode's over. Eliana, do it. Thank you, everyone. Then we have, you know, more petals swooping in at her. It's a little shoujo breeze, but blue petals instead. Then she reads aloud from her book.

A fox, after nearly crossing the stream, gets his tail in the water. The task at hand is not yet completed. It promises success, but proceed with caution. So this is hexagram number 64 of the I Ching. It translates into unfinished business, which seems to be the entire theme of the episode. Right? Lee's going to have unfinished business on Earth because he's going to be stuck. He got Will and his dad with their unfinished business and Coulter with some unfinished business.

Though Asriel must have finished, if you know what I mean. The fifth line of this hexagram. Eliana, don't look at me like that. The fifth line of this hexagram. I won't go through all the lines, but the fifth line specifically means progress and success in the ruler of the hexagram's place. So in the fable, the young fox hasn't escaped danger and calamity. Getting his tail wet means the end doesn't reflect the beginning. The task is great and full of responsibility with this hexagram and suggests that the task in hand promises success to unite forces in different directions. It's also a little reminiscent to me just of her reading the I Ching and reading Unfinished Business with the petals

sweeping across of that amber spyglass scene, right? When supper was over, the three humans and Etel sat on rugs outside Mary's house under the warm stars. They lay back, well-fed and comfortable in the flowers sent in night, and listened to Mary tell her story. I feel like that's really fitting, just for her to start this off, her big adventure, starting in the cave again, as Eliana said, reading the I Ching, reading about how this great task is going to require a lot, but it could really change things. Love it.

Yeah, so this could really change things. Love it. Yeah. So this is really interesting. I, um, it's absolutely, there's a lot of unfinished business in this episode. I'm going to throw in one more from the post credit scene. Roger is unfinished business.

Oh yeah. Yeah. That's very big unfinished business. And Lyra very much so has that to handle, huh? Soon. Soon. She's gotta wake up first. Lee reminisces

with Hester about playing the Alamo long ago. They have 30 bullets left and Hester says the worst thing in the world. Oh god! I forgot we have to get to this. Hester says, this was all my fault, Lee, for not stopping you. And her little ears go back when

she says it yeah and he's like it's not your fault Hess and he gets hit and just as he gets hit he remembers Serafina's cloud pine tries his best to summon her this is just it's sad sad I was kind of wondering if lee and hester's scene here right we're saying that they pushed each other is supposed to hearken back to will and lyra also being like you made me stronger it's not bad but like you know they were gonna always like make each other grow push beyond their limits it's a great thought and it's it's a good scene right it's full of classic lee stuff hester says our lives are theirs and he says no theirs are lyra's could have could have had a little more intonation on that line but that's okay i'll let it slide

don't listen to this but we get this really nice touch of him taking off his hat as he goes to the next rock, which is similar to some of the tricks he uses in Once Upon a Time in the North, providing a fake out right when he's fighting McConnell up in the warehouse at the end of the story. But the most glaring part of the scene, to come back to what you said, Eliana, is some of the demon juxtaposition. We started off with Hester in her final moments here crying, I stopped you, which we've seen Hester throughout the show stopping Lee from bar fighting,

or at least telling him on the left, Lee, on the right, Lee, what are you doing? Stopping him from doing things wrong. In the books, when this line would happen, it would come from her thinking it was her fault from telling him to take the scraling ring, right? But it still works here as well. And something that feels very glaring in this episode is the juxtaposition of Hester against Coulter and how Coulter treats her demon. Hester cries out like, I should have stopped you. I'm sorry. I just, I should have stopped you. And Lee's like, no, Hester, what are you saying? Like, you couldn't have fixed this. This is fate. We got to do it for Ly lyra and marisa shows her demon that there really isn't

stopping her she's like this is what i can do if i want i am powerful if people would just fucking open their eyes and see it and it ends up kind of exactly how she heals her love for not only herself but also with lyra right like this is how life could be. But if you don't let me protect you, this is how life could be. Damn. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I do like the contrast between Lee, how Lee and Hester interact. I feel like with Lee kind of reassuring Hester, it reminds me of like when you're self-soothing yourself. It's opposite

to Marisa who's always trying to beat herself up when she's feeling bad, but with Lee it's trying to reassure himself that he's doing the right thing as he's talking to Hester. Never thought of that comparison, but it's a good one. For sure. And I mean it plays into

how their ending goes, but we'll get to that in a second. We're basically there. We're leading up to it. And we talked about that ending quite a bit in our coverage of The Subtle Knife, and talked about how the end might be

written a little similarly to the end of Hemingway's A Farewell to Arms. But of course, I think, I'm sure many people know this, right, that Lee's Last Stand Here is very much hearkening to the legend of Davy Crockett, an American folktale legend who was a congressman in

Tennessee and a big figure in the Texas Revolution and who died at the Battle of the Alamo, which was a crucial turning point in the Texas Revolution, which was fought for Texas to gain independence from Mexico and made up of a mix of American immigrants. So it was then a larger state in Mexico called Coahuila y Tejas.

And we had a lot of Tejanos who are Mexican-born residents of Texas, right, who made up this independence movement. And as we can see, Texas never ended up joining what would eventually be a United States of America because they don't have that in Larry's world. We'll get to that in a second. But some of that background is because I have questions. I have questions about Philip Pullman's world building.

And this, I guess, is not as much about the show so much as the historic materials world at large. But the context for in the real world, the Tejanos were mad at the changes in their government, right, not adhering to or not listening to their voices, giving them as much representation as they had hoped after the Mexican Revolution. And the American settlers, right, who were coming to Texas, some of who interestingly, migrated there illegally, you know just just throwing it out there um allegedly um and they were mad that they couldn't practice slavery the way that they were used to despite them coming over to this

other government um and because the practice of slavery was uh outlawed in mexico eventually and also some of them brought some of their quite racist prejudices to the people whose land they were settling but anyway i digress anyways um eventually uh after a while americans made up about 40 of the texian army um as the texanos and americans banded together to gain independence from mexico but the battle of the alamo is significant in that they were greatly outnumbered by the mexican army they tried to hold the alamo is significant in that they were greatly outnumbered by the Mexican army. They tried to hold the Alamo mission, Spanish mission, right, which was a fort. Anyway, they surrendered and pretty much all of them died, including Davy Crockett, according to some accounts.

One of the most famous accounts is a legend that Crockett, according to Ben, who was a former slave and served as a cook to Mexican General Santa Ana Crockett took down at least 16 Mexican soldiers when they came to execute him even though many of the men there had surrendered and one of those 16 men allegedly had Crockett's knife in him this account is later disputed but you know whatever the point is that this legend stuck around because people love their legends they love love their folktales. Philip Pullman loves those legends. And it's very much what Lee's story is drawing from here as the Battle of the Alamo became the rallying cry for the Texas Revolution at large, right? After seeing this huge defeat where so many people died, it drew more people to their cause. You've probably all heard the phrase, remember the Alamo?

And it's very much like Lee and Hester greatly outnumbered mirroring this taking down all these men for the cause of Lyra and the independence of many worlds from the tyranny of the authority but and this is the part where my questions come in I have no idea what happened at the battle of the Alamo in Lee's world because I don't have any idea as to how it works out at all right because he says to Hester we took turns being the Danes and French and I'm like what

does he mean here right like were they the settlers as the United States does not exist like were they like Danish and French settlers that all joined the like Texan army? Were the Danes and the French fighting against one another? Because we have two other countries that are New Denmark and New France

and what we think of as North America. Right now we have New Denmark and New France. Or did they band together to fight for independence? But they wouldn't fight for independence from Mexico, but from this country below that's called Hispano Nova, according to the map that I've seen of like the historic materials world, like did, was there,

did the Mexican revolution not succeed? And like Texas sought independence from that anyway, or like what, what happened at this battle of the alamo who was fighting who what happened with the danes and the french i have questions and i know the bottom line is philip pullman just likes his folktales but what happened dude i don't think he even knows i don't think he i think that's the problem here he He was just like, this is cool. It reminds me of this thing that happens in a Doctor Who episode where time gets stopped by someone.

And like when time stops, all of these weird paradoxes start happening. Like all this history happens at once. And like there are raptors in the park. And like Caesar is the prime minister. But it's actually someone. It's just really crazy shit happens. and it's like all because something is wrong in time and that's almost what it feels like right sometimes in His Dark Materials

something got fucked up in the timeline and you got a lot of weird stuff in this world much to think about a lot it's definitely I'm sure like Philip Holmes is like this is a cool idea and he just likes the Alamo story but I was just like what

no it just like doesn't make sense at Philip Pullman please answer he might I got my answer to that one question and that's honestly all I need to be happy the cats question yes that's question, and that's honestly all I need to be happy. The cat's question. Yes, yes.

That's the only one that really mattered to me. I'm going to be real. True. She's real easy to please. I am. I'm simple. A couple things I noticed in this scene before we go on to Serafina, my love, is that what a high five to the team. You can see the empty cartridge boxes and shells in

the grass around hester when they zoom in uh so it's not just you know infinite ammo or like you don't see the shells like you literally see the end of it you see the shells you see an empty cartridge and the cartridges must have been made uh from the vfx department because they have similar font and coloring to the candies that you got, Eliana. Branding. Yeah, if you look at the cartridges, take a weird shot and look at it. I wouldn't be able to compare them box to box. Someone who may have gotten their box may be able to compare them.

And they could do so in their His Dark Materials blanket if they so choose. I cannot do that. But Eliana may be able to. Me too. I can do that too so my mom has stolen it so it it's that great i don't like it oh well it's gonna get stolen from eliana someday too don't worry interesting uh another quick thing when lee calls out for seraphina it's kind of paralleling him being summoned by joppery a little bit right he's summoning seraphina uh joppery summoned him

with his mom's ring and he's also using something very close and personal a part of her and also lee's bleeding out against a mossy rock so So, you know, another iteration of blood moss, if you will. Interesting. Interesting that they were able to show blood moss, but not in the actual way it's supposed to be shown. Or that I thought it would be. I didn't think about that.

Yeah, they do show it later with Joppery, too. They show Will as he walks, you see the rock, you see red on the rock but i didn't even think about it i thought that was joffrey's blood and um i was wondering where his body went but that was totally it's totally off yeah did he push him off the cliff did he push him off the cliff all right okay we'll talk about this later. Good, because I have questions of that part. There's a lot of questions every now and then.

Yep. Well, Serafina goes to help Lee next, and she first gets these visions. She's able to get visions of Lee being hit, and outlook not so good, right? And she tells Lyra, Lee's in danger. And Lyra's like, well, you've got to go help him, Mom. That's your husband. And off she goes. Great witch world building in that. Back in episode one, we had a few questions with Lo that joined us about, can the witches telepathically communicate via whatever?

Well, that answer has kind of come from the cloud pine, right? Like having the pine spray within their body. I love the saxifrage in the book. Very thematic, very symbolic, especially when you consider London's version and what happened in the London Blitz. But the idea that everything is connected and having the pine spray within the witches and having them be able to telepathically communicate through their cloud pine is what I'm assuming is how they're able to see things and communicate. And having Lee be able to hold that, it's very

tree of life. We've had so much tree imagery in the last few episodes. And it's like everything is connected, right? The root of magic is running through all of the witches and connecting them. And we're seeing more of that, like Mary Malone in the last episode grabbing fruit from the tree. They're doing a great job. I'm bringing that tree of knowledge, tree of illusion, and of course, the tree. The tree. I'm just excited about it. I think that was a really cool connection to just make the cloud pine part of the witches

and have the summoning work that way as well, and the telepathy. Yeah, it was a very imaginative solution that I think hit a lot of things and sort of streamlined ideas within the series for television. Other things that are awesome in this television

is Ruta Gervitas' acting. And she's the one playing Serafina. It's a little confusing because, yes, we do have a Ruta Scottie. But when Lee calls her, I don't know how they do it. I don't know how because yes we do have a rude Ascati but like when Lee calls her I don't know how they do it I don't know how anyone does it how does acting work

like her pupils just go wide right in that close up we see of her and then suddenly then they normalize as she realizes that Lee is calling her and it's just fantastically done I wonder how much of the story they are going to give Sererafina next season. We know she doesn't feature super heavily in the third book,

but I think that they have done something really interesting with Serafina and having her play off of Ruta so much this season and making the witch's storyline, I think, a big part of that fight against the Authority. And as well as with Seraaphina's individual scenes with will like the seraphina that we get in the show is i think shown as a lot more vulnerable a lot more fallible than the sort of super women that we see witches are in the books and i don't think that that's a bad thing like that we've gotten these doubts um we see her making like mistakes right when it comes to striking back against the Magisterium, losing her homelands. It presents a very much more human,

I think, version of the witches. And she's so dedicated to Lyra. She's kind of like, meh on Will. She's not really sure about him. And she shows hesitation in what she's doing. And again, that's a very human thing. So I'm interested to see how they build her out next season if they dig into that. Like what happens to Serafina here is very much, I think, Lyra's biggest fears that she has at the beginning of the episode, right? Because Serafina makes a mistake. She doesn't get to Lee in time and then loses him. But in choosing to help Lee, right? And I mean, of course, Lyra tells her you should go, you need to help him.

to help Lee, right? And I mean, of course, Lyra tells her, you should go, you need to help him. You know, that's a difficult choice between two people she cares about, two people she doesn't want to make a mistake with. And Serafina, she leaves Lyra and Will alone. And in those few moments that she's gone, Lyra ends up taken, Lee dies. So I'm just like, how does this mistake and how did these losses end up really just changing and affecting Serafina's character? Yeah, I think we talked a little bit earlier in the season about how there's a little framework of Serafina as kind of a centrist, right? And seeing her humanized, like you mentioned, is really interesting because she's, you know, a witch and she's old and she's been around for a while. And emotions are different for witches than they are for humans who have such pitiful, puny lives right true as we've learned compared to theirs and i do think that this will help push her in the war out of that kind of centrism that she felt all series and we

see her go off this is the first time that she has strayed from her path of lyrara, Lyra to go help Leith. He is the first choice that she said, yes, I have to go. Bye. There was no, you know, she kind of asked for permission from Lyra, but not really. Like she immediately knew. She's like, oh shit. This is my one thing I said I would do.

Yeah. And so she's torn between those two obligations. That's very much what her face says. Yeah. I don't want to do it. Take it away, Chloe! Let's just end the episode here. This is it. This is what happened in the episode.

Lee and Hester held out. This is so awful. I hate this. Do we even need to talk? It's unfortunate. It's unkind. This reminds me of a bit from Once Upon a Time in the North we should talk about. Lee left her to it and checked the barometer, the gas pressure gauge, and the compass again. Not that the compass was much of a help in these latitudes. Then he took out the rifle,

looked it over thoroughly, cleaned it, oiled it with a new can of machine oil, which he found, to his surprise, in the toolbox. He wrapped it up again carefully before making sure it was safely strapped to a stanchion. He'd learned his lesson. He looked after it well for the rest of his life, and 35 years later, the Winchester was in his hands when he died. 35 years later, the Winchester was in his hands when he died. Great shout out to the prop department. Michael Van Kestren, the lead over there, did a great job on this rifle. He even put in something pretty cool. There's an homage to Han Solo's blaster, his DL-44 blaster in the rifle.

I think it's the added scope. Me and my dad were checking it out today. And I don't know guns, you know, I was like, dad, help. But the added scope looks like the homage because most Winchesters don't have that secondary scope. And it's a really, it's well done. It's great to see that it's the gun. Attention to detail. I'm into that.

And Lee had the dustiest death in the series. In this series. It was a swan song, right? Like, we haven't seen people die like that in the series in a while, all dusty and close up. Boreal didn't get a dusty death. He got a tear poison death. There was a tear.

Lee had a tear. They've been very into the tear death, but Boreal's death wasn't quite as dusty. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a clean death by any means, but also not dusty. Yeah, they really drew it out, and I mean, I think that's the thing, right? Like, Lee and Hester's death is

very central to that, and y'all were talking earlier about the contrast between the relationship Mrs. Colton and her demon have versus lee and hester and how lee and hester seem very much aligned right they they care for one another they build each other up and it's that firmness that they have that shows that lee loves hester he loves himself right and not like in a weird way like in a very self-assured way, so it's very

it's so sad. But what a way to go. They loved life, they loved adventures. But what a good way to go. It was. It was a good swan song, and it was

well done. They kept the tension up, they kept it moving. A good rabbit song. They did good. Yeah, a good rabbit song. and it was uh it was well done they kept the tension up they kept it moving a good rabbit song they did good yeah a good rabbit song they kept they kept the whole line they really did yeah amazing it is uh if you think about it it's a good death in that you talk about how lee loved himself and you know in his last moments he would he has no regrets and i just think that's a satisfying way to go for one of the few characters or not one of the few one of the many characters that die in this series so yeah that's true yeah can't wait till next series. Oh, God. Everybody dies.

We get this montage right after this that, like, it's a good montage and it got the tension back up. So, like, you're upset for a minute and then you're right back into it. So I was glad about that. It was smooth. But I was like, God, let me grieve. Jesus. A lot of these scenes are intercut. So it's really clever because it leads to classic

misdirections the untrained unread mind would see coulter entering the gulch and associate her background and environment being rocky warm colored stones as being where will was headed the magisterium guy is following them and they show a very swift clip of him blink and you miss it so when will finally is about to meet his dad you're distracted you don't remember the magisterium guy being around because he wasn't on the same backdrop and right before he gets there you're like oh no coulter's gonna get him but of course that's not what happens yeah it's not well we'll find out what happens in a second but i assume you all know because you're listening to this episode first though jobry's gonna summon will in his sleep yeah you know in a movie or whatever where you get frustrated at someone's choice and

like i know will has to leave because of the plot but I'm so mad he leaves without waking up Lyra. Or at least waking up the witch so she can keep watch, you know. Rookie mistake, Will. I love you, but that was stupid of you. Yeah, absolutely. Will was just like, oh, Lyra needs to nap. That's part of the plot. Lyra's always napping. She looks so peaceful. I shouldn't wake her up i guess that is what i thought i was like this is the first time she's gotten to know this entire series wow yeah probably didn't want to disturb that so i get it but it's gonna cost him it's gonna cost everyone oh some heavy scholar coin that's for sure

well after this intercut scene of the magisterium following the trail and coulter arriving in the gulch will ends up meeting joppery wow big wow but on the other side coulter finds lyra right lots of reunions happening we get specters eating Raina Meadey. I was a little disappointed. That was a quick scene. I wonder if they had to cut something, but it was still great. Nonetheless, sad for Raina Meadey. Sad to see her go, Sasha Frost. And Coulter wakes Lyra after that, but we flash back to Will. Yes, Will gets a tiny bit of closure, of course. Jobry tasks him as the knife bearer, and Will works out some of his

pain of being abandoned by his father. And honestly, it's a real tearjerker, and it's quite a great scene. Will promises to bear the knife as long as afterward. His dad promises they can go home. He's all like, and then we go home. And my partner

could sense something in this moment, and he asks me, he's like, wait, why can't he go home with him? And I just look at him like, I'm not going to tell you. You're going to find out in, like, two seconds. Yep. And that makes me think about this passage in The Subtle Knife. What he couldn't say was that he longed for his father as a lost child yearns for home. That comparison wouldn't have occurred to him because home was the place he kept safe for his mother, not the place others kept safe for him. But it

had been five years now since that Saturday morning in the supermarket when the pretend game of hiding from the enemies became desperately real. Such long time in his life and his heart craved to hear the words well done well done my child no one on earth could have done better i'm proud of you come and rest now and um andrew scott does this thing like i don't know if it's part of the script or his own choice but he does this kind of non-committal like head shake then nod and i noticed he does the same thing in his conversation with lee in episode four when lee tells him he's given up on finding a way back to his family except here joppery first nods then shakes his head and then he also goes on to tell Will, yes, it chose you. It chose you. Argue with anything else, but don't argue with your true nature. And in episode four, he says to Lee what he wants is to leave a world behind him where Will's able to think for himself, where he's free. And that is what Will ends up doing in Amber's Spyglass.

There's a part where Will says he doesn't want to be told what he'll become. He wants to choose and forge his own path. And as we find out, either through lantern slides or through interviews, we find out that Will does become a doctor. A healer, ironically enough, like his shaman dad i also see similarities between both uh joppery and marisa both of them want their kids to be free but john john or joppery ends up pushing will to take on his destined path while marisa wants to prevent lyra from taking hers. And then, um, more sad stuff happens. He dies.

But he gets shot. But Fleabag ends up saving Will Perry by attacking the Magisterium guy's demon. All I can think about is, like, wow, he must have really saved up his strength for that

to be able to kill or for his demons able to do that as his last act before he died and we get uh john perry saying let me look at you and i love that they actually took this part from the book but instead of it coming from a stranger because at that point in the book joppery doesn't know he's talking to his son yet it's actually coming from a father, because at that point in the book, Jopri doesn't know he's talking to his son yet. It's actually coming from a father wanting to get a last look at his son before he dies. So I thought that was very, very sad and sweet. Yeah, absolutely. It's got so much emotional weight.

it's got so much emotional weight yeah as you were saying regarding his demon you know and he saved up all his weight he held on just to do that to make sure his son was safe and that's another thing that you know I cannot do in theory

I have a demon but I cannot just kill someone's someone else just with the sheer force of my own soul power. There'd be a lot of dead people now. No, that's not true. Or I'd be dead. But absolutely, there's something that you said that I wasn't sure if it echoes.

The way Lord Asriel said this line I think it might be show only to Marisa you pointed out this line of Jabri telling Will argue with anything else but don't argue with your true nature

doesn't Lord Asriel say something like that to Marisa when he's trying to get her to cross in the other way? He's like, lie about anything else but don't lie about what you really want. I totally forgot about that. I did too until just now. That's good.

That's good shit, Eliana. You can start a podcast. I'm really good at it. Holy shit. No, that is good though. I don't know what it means. Well, but Cam, I think holy shit no that is good though that's uh i don't know what it means yeah now i have to think on it well well but cam i think cam just said too about that of things like how asriel speaks at the end right and how he's trying to build a new world uh just like joppery here and i think it really relates there that both of them are uh and okay book jopperbery may not fully have our vote of confidence in all things

he does andrew scott gets a pass right because he's andrew scott and a couple things here but uh book jobbery sometimes isn't as complex maybe you know as i'd like him to be or fleshed out and complex at least i think they flesh him out a bit more in this and I think having him juxtaposed against Asriel in that and wanting better for their kids but not necessarily being great guy you know not your stand-up best guy not the reliable motherfucker you call on you know I mean they're not really there all the time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that comes through in the discussion that he has with Will, right? Like, Will, he's still so untrusting for obvious reasons, can't be honest about himself and his, sure, his true nature to other people.

And he tries to tell his father, like, how hard it's been on him that his father wasn't there, but he can't say that outright. He says it was really hard on his mom. Doesn't he know how difficult it was that he was gone? But what he wants to say is, Dad, it was so hard for me that you weren't here. say it outright. Jopri understands what he's trying to say, that subtext. He senses it and he apologizes to Will. He knows that he's fucked up. And then as he's dying, as you said, Cam, you called out that let me look at you, he strokes Will's face in this really tender way. It's a

similar gesture to Mrs. Coulter stroking Lyra's face at the end, but he holds the face of his son and it's just... I just appreciate all that and that one of the first things that jobry does when he sees will is that he remembers and he asks he's like he's so worried he's like wait where's elaine what's happened to her and and and he's fervent about getting that answer for sure i also think especially the way cam was just referring to

how jobry kind of you know immediately was like this is your nature don't fight it uh it's also the way that Will gets this closure and gets to have just a tiny bit of closure to these wounds these internal wounds not not quite his external which he does get closure there as we know with the blood moss uh but the way that he gets the closure and the way he just says like dad why weren't you there why weren't you there you know you should have been there and he finally gets the moment to look at his dad and say that and like there's nothing jobbery can say back to fix those years there's nothing there's absolutely nothing and he knows that yeah andrew's played

that so well he knows that and all he knows is that he can give his son the advice he can give him in this moment and he knows his time isn't gonna go on here he knows it's over for him that this is the best he can give his son this is it uh and it's something that will won't understand right now he won't understand it for years right like he can feel like he understands it in the moment but that's a complex emotion that you just don't get till you're older till you've experienced life till you've loved someone till you've had the opportunity to you know be with a community and a family and will's been so isolated it's just uh it was a really emotionally tugging scene. As soon as I saw the sniper to sneak up on them, I was like, no, it's him. He's gonna do it. And as soon as Raina Meadey was eaten by the Spectre, I was like, no, it's really gonna be this sniper.

I wasn't like, no, I was like, good. I was too, in some ways, but I wanted Devil i wanted devil's advocate i'm so don't be mad at me don't listen to the subtle life our last episode where i talk about how stupid this is so stupid but both sides but i do want to talk about this because look the book ending for Jobberie is dumb. It has a purpose. It's a very vague purpose. Pullman does not do a great job getting it through. It's like a couple pages and the ending's dramatic.

It's harsh. It's fast. It's the end to a plot that doesn't get followed up on at all. It's a vague bit of emotion involved where the witch is basically like, someday you'll understand why my heart was so broken that it led me to murder the man I love. Make it make sense. Anyway, she says, no, I can't explain. You're too young. It wouldn't make sense to you. I loved him. That's all. That's enough. And then she kills herself. Anyways, the thing is, is that while Pullman didn't explain this well, and I'm glad they changed his plot on a very foundational level, Will does someday experience that pain of losing someone who couldn't be his because A, you don't own people. Check that down, witch.

right he makes a sacrifice for the love of his life and that's a painful sacrifice to make at that young of a time when you've been through all these bonding traumatic incidents and in the book yes there's a little violence he's angry he shoves her around he hurts her because he's hurt and it's pretty scary like she's afraid of him and Pullman makes that clear and that's understandable like your dad just got killed in front of you like yeah you wouldn't be nice it's not a very nice plot for the screen so i don't think it would have played out in this moment and i do think that we are going to have a good amount of uh this hopefully affecting will's want to battle the authority they've been using so much strong fascist magisterium Nazi imagery, right down to the German submachines.

They use all series and the uniforms and the magisterium symbol. I'm guessing they're really gunning for will to let that kind of influence him, right. Or to help increase that tension and desire to battle the authority. Yeah. Yeah, probably. I mean, like, mean like i don't know i just the witch plot never made sense to me it still doesn't but yes um they they are definitely playing that up yeah um i definitely prefer this change um i i also do wonder how this will alter or affect will's motives going forward, like his dad being murdered by a magisterium guy as opposed to a witch. And I would have also hated to see Will get violent with the witch, considering how much they've changed his character a bit.

He's more, as they've established him, he's definitely like softer less harsh so in any act of violence he has to do ways more on him compared to how he is in the books so that would have been jarring to see him getting that violent not would have gelled today as well so i'm glad they avoided all that with the whole which i also kind of had a feeling they would change this, how Joppery would die. Because in that conversation with Lee and Joppery, Lee asked him to swear on what made you gave up the love of a witch. In the book is what Lee says, but here in the show, it's I swear on the love of your boy so instead of Joppery's you know they totally took out all the connections like with a possible witch for Joppery so again I have a leftist that this is a dumbass decision said Jack Thorne yeah or or any

of the women writers for sure yeah right I hope so but yeah for sure i do think that it would also really kind of negate the growth we've seen from will in this series in series two in general to have him uh i i think like the difference in the comparison instead is that they chose for him to then pick up his dad's mantle literally like, like it happens in the book, but to focus on that moment, on Will choosing a path to choose to help people, you know, to be that healer and a warrior. He could be both. You could be a warrior and a healer. Look at Serafina, right? Trying to heal Will, but also out there killing Magisterium men. You can be both things. You don't have to be one thing and i think that for will to instead choose to don his dad's jacket and to choose that path and not choose violence and not have him show

that on tv is much better yeah it's something that his father took that burden on from him in the way that it's and preserved that bit of innocence for him in the way that it's portrayed and and it's i think it's noted know, you were saying that Lee in the books asked Jobry to swear on whatever made him give up the love of a witch, and it's not mentioned here for Jobry. And I think that that's quite pointed, considering that they have said at least more than once, or hinted more than once, to Lord Asriel having had witch lovers.

So the fact that that's pointed to and it isn't for jobry i think helped kind of drive where this was going for this differentiates the man a little bit too that's true um i think it's also an interesting choice to omit that because I feel like the purpose was that was to kind of like show how devoted Joffrey was to Elaine but as you guys have mentioned I feel like a lot of people have noticed like when he reads his love for Elaine does show through like when they were reading his letters and um definitely made it more definitely made it more tender. So I don't think that's something that is questioned. So it's not necessary to have to include that just to prove that point. Yeah, it comes through.

And I mean, like, again, that's where I'm not saying that his powers come from. Not nothing, but I'm not saying that it doesn't. I'm telling you, he would not have been able to take down those airships had he not been edging for so long. I agree. I agree. That's what gives the subtle knife its power. That's the edge.

Talk about savage. Oh no. God! Jesus! That is what part of it's about. But I will say, you know, the change in the scene, I think it does tie well, you know, besides the

connection of the witch and Will learning love. I think that the way that they did it here does still connect with the end of the books and the journey and the decisions that Will and Lyra have to make in a couple of ways, including about love. You know, one of them is Jabri telling Will that he must take the

knife to Lord Asriel, that this is Will's path. But as we're seeing, right, as Cam pointed out at the beginning of the episode, growing up and learning is very much about learning to take your own path, choosing it yourself. And Jopri says that Will's duty is to take the knife to Asriel, and Will's like,

well, shit, your duty was to be my dad. And obviously Jopri didn't fulfill that, so Will also, you know, he is to take the knife to Azrael and Will's like well shit your duty was to be my dad and obviously Jabri didn't fulfill that so Will also you know he ends up actually never fulfilling this duty that Jabri says is his right he technically never really takes the knife to Lord Azrael free will and the end

of destiny come about regardless but because Will was following Lyra's like orders she was like open this bubble we gotta free the old man and and that saves everyone and second you know there's a part in which jobry tells will that he was doing what he could to try to make the universe's plural better for his son and you know his inability to get back to will and his mother he gains a better understanding of the different worlds and and people and through that is a better understanding of the different worlds and people.

And through that is trying to help Will and Elaine. And it makes me think of that lesson towards the end, the multiple lessons towards the end of The Amber Spyglass, one of tell them stories, this encouragement to one another to learn, to pursue ideas and knowledge at the end of the

book, making each other better in that way, to help everyone else, including the ones you love, even from afar. And then he talks about like keeping the knife from the magisterium. Right. And it speaks to like that need to use this power of human capacity for thought,

knowledge and exploration. Right. Because if you don't use it, if you don't explore, if you don't have that curiosity then tyrants of course will tear it out of your hands as they would the knife they will take whatever edge and power they can get over you and i and finally you know i think that the hope that will brings up in that heart-wrenching moment of like and then we're gonna go home together right

dad we're gonna go home and there's this really boyish hope right of course that the adults in your life they're gonna come home your dad's gonna come home everything's finally gonna be right he's gonna fix it that's what he told lyra was his dream that his dad would come home and everything would be right again and it's the hope that lyra will have for the end of their journey right that they're gonna finish this all up they're gonna go back and forth between each other's homes it's gonna be beautiful they're gonna be together and then it it still ties into i think the way that jobbery dies right he sacrifices himself for his son to live he doesn't get to go home with him not everything's fixed and will and myra don't die yet but they make this immense sacrifice so that the other might be able to live a full life and they lose

that promise of a home together i had a revelation as eliana was saying all this about how joppery or jopari whatever he you know his he can't get back to his family. The next best thing for him to do is to make the world he is in better and it just makes me think of that line of we have to build the Republic of Heaven wherever we are because for us there is no elsewhere.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's creating a place. A safe place. A sanctuary one could call it. Yeah. Sanctuary's a little important, I hear, in this story for some reason, so.

It is. Cam, oh no. Not that word. Oh my god. The moral of the story is invest in your local government. It is, though. Oh my god. No, it is though. Oh my god.

Maybe. No. No. Some ways. Well, now that we're nice and depressed, this actually starts off a montage that at first you're like, this is depressing. Must be a jockery voiceover. But then you're like, wait a fucking second. That's Lord fucking As asriel i don't even

like the guy and i was excited okay wait would okay this is a controversial question would we have known that it wasn't joffrey reading it aloud but lord asriel if i were better at understanding the british accent i mean likely it's more that it's like a okay so they're doing a lot of fake outs in this episode, as we've noticed, right? There's the VFX fake out about the specters with the witch dress. There's a couple handful of fake outs, that misdirection of the rocks and where people were when things were happening. And this, again, is a misdirection because it literally lingers on Jopri and starts saying

things that are what you think Jopri would say. He says, I have struggled through many worlds to arrive here, but you know this. I have sacrificed things I did not want to. My fight is not with you. But then you realize, as he goes, but you are the last obstacle between me and my enemy. And you go, wait a second, because the first three lines literally are just Joppery things. I've sacrificed shit, you know, things I didn't want to sacrifice. And you're like, wow, that's so sad. They're doing a voiceover from Jopper-as-real.

That's how I felt. I was like, oh, Jopper-as-real? Jop-as-real? The speech itself is great. This is, like we said earlier, the end of the four hours. It's the end of the episode that they were going to have filmed, the bottle episode. This was supposed to be the very end of the bottle episode. Episode five did not happen.

So they were able to harvest it. And Asriel, in this scene, a bunch of stuff is about to happen before we get to the end of his speech. But at the end of the speech, it is him asking the angels to join him. As Cam said earlier, you're either for me or you're against me. Now, which is it? And that is how he ends it to the angels as they appear. And they say they are with him.

Zephaniah, more importantly. But before we get to that, Serafina comes to save Lee, casts a spell to protect his body after kissing him on the forehead. Very important. We see the blood moss on the rocks once more. And then we get Will

accepting his fate and his loss, donning his dad's jacket, and ending up in this montage. We see him standing in the sun, wielding the knife in his summoning, parallel to Coulter, Joppery, Lee. It's a powerful scene, Eliana.

It's a powerful parallel. Your power, personally. You did this. But he's got this powerful summoning stance. He's standing in the sunlight looking pretty glorious and choosing the light. Yeah. Or Jack Thorne in his hat and his strange orange suit.

That's his power. He did this. Okay. Okay. Well, Serafina soars into the sky and we see Eliana's boyfriend York Burnson in the melting Arctic. I love York. Knife bear! Knife bear!

Wow. I was excited for you. Well, Mary steps through a cave to a waterfall where the blue petals are streaming in. There are also some orange and red flowers growing as well, looking out. And she is looking out in wonder.

A boat carries Mrs. Coulter, um, who's streaming along the water. Father slash Cardinal Macphail looks angry and still Mario and Azrael look on as the angels light up the sky joining his cause to attack and dethrone god and then marisa really very strangely tenderly is here with this container this box on a boat she and the monkey gaze at it

she opens it and turns out lyra is inside and she is taking lyra somewhere that they can be safe why what are you doing first i thought she had a specter in the box for some reason so stupid and like at first i was like oh she's putting her specters in the trunk and i was like oh it's ly, never mind. Great parallel to Asriel asking Lyra to hide in a trunk chest, but she also ends up falling asleep in. Oh, yeah. She just loves to sleep.

That's true. I forgot that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I just saw her holding that box a little too tender. I was like, she's in the box, isn't she? She's in the box. The whole time.

I was like, what's in the box? At least it's a whole body. A whole live body, not just a head. I hope there's holes in there. Again, Asriel style. That's true. That is an Asriel thing to do. Asriel with the box. Asriel did it before the movie 7 how edgy

how edgy Asriel does not edge to blow up magisterium ships I just want you to know Joffrey does but Asriel doesn't and that is the difference between their characters that is yes the books do stress the power of asriel's dick um

and ruda specifically absolutely um but you know keeping lyra in a box right it does highlight the hypocrisy of marisa you know going back to two episodes ago she accuses lord boreal she's all like you wouldn't even know what to do with me if you had me. And I'm like, well, Mrs. Coulter, interesting of you to say that. Because now you have your daughter and you're like, I don't know what to do with her. I'm gonna put her in a box. This is not childcare. This is not good childcare.

I don't have one, but I just know this is not it, honey. I'm pretty sure that's not what you do. There are no... How is she breathing there? Through the little hole. Through the tiny keyhole. I'm losing my breath just watching that.

You know this wasn't the last scene though, right? Everyone. Guys. Interesting. Guys. Guys. At this point of the episode, I had completely forgotten about this. everyone. Guys. Guys. Guys. I, at this point of the episode,

I completely forgotten about this. Like I was like, I'm so fulfilled. I was just fulfilled. And I was like, what could the end scene be? Well, that's not true.

I did think it could happen still. I was like, could it be Mulefa or is it Roger? And when it was Roger, I was just like, yeah. Woo. Yeah.

I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. And then I did like a jig around the apartment. I, just like, yeah! Woo! Yeah, I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! And then I did, like, a jig around the apartment. It's just nice. It's nice to have one thing I'm right for, you know what I mean? It's not just one, but yes. Mostly one.

I was like, damn, Chloe called it. It's the perfect way to end a season. It's stupid not to. It's, like, completely just dumb not to end the season this way, because A, they want to move a season. It's stupid not to. It's like completely just dumb not to end the season this way because A, they want to move a few things forward, right? We have eight episodes next series. As we said, we got a lot to get through. And they are moving things forward and getting places and people like to the places in time so that they can start their plot off right. We didn't get

Baruch and Balthamos. We wanted them badly, but it was shot and the scene was totally just not right. We didn't get Baruch and Balthamos. We wanted them badly, but it was shot and the scene was tonally just not right. Eliana and I have talked a little together before this about how I think that could have been a little bit of an awkward scene to just all of a sudden then have at the end Will finding the angels or the angels finding him and him being pissed off.

Like, where's my girlfriend? Where's my girlfriend at? It's bad. It's bad it's bad news but i think that's fine like i'm fine without seeing them we still got angels and i think the asriel scene was totally better as far as that building a better world for your kids theme going on there even if he doesn't really you know isn't doing it for his child. Just doing it for, you know, I don't know, clout? No one knows. He's an influencer.

Oh my god. Hashtag influencer. Asriel's like, if I get 2.4 million likes on this photo, I'll attack and dethrone God. I am glad they had that as the post-credits scene, though. I remember, what was it? Also in the Q& a that they had after the episode aired jack thorne was saying that in the writer's room they were discussing and they felt like roger is really the in many ways the heart of the story or is a big part of that so

glad that they brought that in um yeah as for baruch and baltham was which yes of course we were expecting it to be here at the end uh because that's what happens in the books, and why it would feel off to only- I mean, it does, right? Had this Asriel scene happened in the Bottle episode, in episode 5, when we thought it would, or not when we thought it would, when Jack Thorne thought it would, right? That gives us some time to establish angels, right? And be like, wow, angels, be like super wowed by how cool and majestic and mysterious they are right before you get that sudden like jarring like here's baruch and balthamos and they don't give a shit about your girlfriend yeah totally off yeah it makes sense it's a great subversion if you have enough time with the angels but here you don't yeah for sure and it allows us to kind of sit with our grief for all those who were lost in this episode so that definitely would

have shifted the tone yeah but i would have wanted to see them but it's okay it is i i did i'm glad we got it in the angel scene right like that was definitely the what we got was we got Zephania and the other angels in the sky instead. And I think that we'll get a lot of angels next season. I'm very excited for a lot of things in series three. And I know you two have to be as well. So what are we looking forward to a lot of meetings for sure. I like seeing like characters who've never, you know, interacted before, especially in this season, we got a lot of like characters that we never got to that never got to me in the book. Do it this season.

So, you know, I mean, in season three, we do have a lot of like meetings, like, but I do want to see, you know,

will with the angels i think that's going to be such a funny dynamic um it'll add some levity for sure to that season because it's gonna be brutal uh and will meeting the knife bearer meeting the knife bear aka yorick yes um and kriava so how she's gonna yes yeah oh my god that's true in the subtitles of um this episode where he is telling jobry to go find the knife bearer it actually said yeah i noticed that i had a screenshot that too. I was like, he says bear, so hashtag confirmed. Usually those captions are really on point. So that's really funny. Those are the BBC iPlayer captions I am amazed by.

That's been my favorite thing of the whole series, honestly. It's been so good i'm like they have different colors and you can follow them it's just really visually great oh yeah that's um this show is gonna get weird you guys this show is gonna get so weird and i don't think anyone's even ready for it like uh king agunwe was cast is what it sounds like he was in the bottle episode so i think there's a handful of people that are already cast that were in the bottle episode that are probably forming Asriel's board eventually. I'm excited about the angels, of course, and seeing them maybe look a little more

humanoid up close. I'm guessing they will reveal themselves to Will and we'll be able to kind of make out more features on them. And hello, Chevalier, Tialis, and Lady Salmachia. That's the only thing I care about. That's what I'm here for. I am here for that. Absolutely. I'm interested if they can get me to change my mind

on Lord Asriel. I don't know if they can because I've had quite a bit to solidify. But they did on Lord Boreal. But granted, I didn't have a strong opinion about Lord Boreal already at all so and but like if Arya and Picard's performance

did such a good job on moving me on Lord Boreal could James McAvoy do that for me for Lord Asriel? I don't know it's a question I have I mean the witches they did good with the witches. And I think James McAvoy can act his ass off. I mean, that scene, that one Asriel moment, that was good.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, like, I like a lot of James McAvoy stuff. So I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I'll be sold ever on Asriel. Exactly. I don't know if I'll be sold on a selfish man. How could you be sold on a selfish man like that? But, I mean, in the end, they did okay, right?

Yeah. I don't know. Everyone fucking loves Asriel, but yet when Marisa does something crazy, they're like, there she is again being crazy! In world, but here in this world, you know, people are like, wow, she's amazing. Yeah, she is B1. She is. here in this world you know people are like yeah she's amazing yeah she is b1 she is they've really done a lot to to focus the story yeah that too about focus the story on her end but yeah i'm especially yeah yeah that's true right right right i'm excited to see malefa yes mary mary plot mary mary plot mary plot I'm excited to see Malefa. Yes. Merry, merry plot. Merry plot.

Merry plot. Merry plot. I can't believe it's over. I know. I'm not excited to see the end of this season. No one? No one is? Yeah, we can wait on that.

I'm kidding. I don't know. I'm torn. I'm just torn. Of course I want to see it, but of course, I'm also like, oh my god. No, not ready. No. Not only that, but like, how are they going to make it as painful as it was on the pages? They have a lot of work to do. It's not their fault. Like, I'm not saying it like they can't. I'm just saying they have a lot of work to do. This has got to heart-wrenching they have a lot of they've done a lot of great setup but they got worried about

the pace of how they're going to pace the episodes next season especially because you know season three we start off with will and lyra separated and i just wonder how they're going to you know if they're going to prolong or how long that search for lyra is going to be because by the time we will find lyra i don't know what episode will be on will be like what quarter of the season through and then you know you i feel like those last pages of the book are so like it's just hit after hit so you need that build up to to get there emotionally like i don't want to get there that fast i want it to build up there so i will see if they can do that in eight episodes yeah yeah well i was gonna wake up after like two to three episodes tops

but you know they can't keep going for a while they have to wake her up after, like, two to three episodes tops. But, you know, they can't keep going for a while. They have to wake her up after a couple episodes. So I wonder how fast that will go. Because you can't have your two main actors, like, half and half the whole season. You just can't do it. So, I don't know. We'll have to see. I trust them.

I trust them. I don't know if they have enough in-book material to draw it out more than, like, an episode. That's kind of what I wonder. I wonder if it's going to be like Jon Snow style. You know how people are all like, Jon Snow in the show? Is it going to come back? And then all of a sudden Jon Snow is back. I think they have to make it fast. I don't think they can hold out on it because Lyra has a lot

to get done. Yeah, for sure. I would say two episodes max or like part of the second episode. That's all. That's all I'll allow. So. At Jack Thorne. Yeah.

It's just too much. I will. If you're listening, I'll make sure this gets to the right parties. We're going to email it out. Make sure they know. But this is all we will allot you. Two episodes. Two episodes.

Unless they make the season longer. In which case, you know, i don't know we'll see we'll see well cam yeah this has been a blast thank you for coming on to get really oh my gosh i'm glad i could do this with you oh yeah this is like this is weird because i've never like talked i was telling Eliana earlier that I I don't know anyone in real life who's read the books like I have so like these books have been kind of like living in my head for like the past 15 years and suddenly I'm here like talking about it on a podcast so it's great I love it like what a time to be a fan um of this show of these books

and the show we have this show so i'm glad it could be with you guys for sure oh well now you have two now you have two friends we might be worlds away but every single night we can meet on skype at the same time and look up at the same moon. Well, not the same moon. That's ridiculous. Every night at the same time when the sun goes down. I'm just, you know. Yup. Yup.

So, with that note, Cam Manuel Miranda, please tell us where we can find you. I'm kidding. On the internet. At no, Cam Manuel Miranda. Please tell us where we can find you. I'm kidding. On the internet. Not at Ariana69.

It's at Candid 59 on Twitter, where you'll find me shitposting and getting sad a lot about this series. Well, I don't know. It's going to be quite the wait for season three. So, yeah.

Yeah. Well, hopefully Twitter will keep people occupied in the meantime. Lots of caches of some sad posts. Oh, for sure. What was my last tweet? Oh, I was talking about a fanfic because Chloe was talking about my... Yeah. Inspiring. Miracles happen.

You're a goddamn treasure. Goddamn treasure and we're very lucky to have you. I was thinking about how full circle we've come because I remember my review for you guys. I called you guys funny. And you guys thought I was funny. I was like, oh, shit.

Oh, shit. Maybe we have the same sense of humor. That could be it. That could be it. Could be. Well, make sure to check out Cam's Twitter. And make sure you check out our Twitter as well. You can find us over at girlsgonecanon, C-A-N-O-N, on Twitter.

Or shoot us an email if you want to chat his dark materials. Send us photos of your animals at home, your own demons, so to say. That's girlsgonecanon at gmail.com, C-A-N-O-N. Yes, and of course, you can find us on most platforms. You can find it, well, actually, I don't know if that's true or not, when I say most. I don't know how many platforms are out there, but you can find us on Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Acast, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Podbean, where this is all hosted. Yes. and if that is not enough for you an easy place to get updates on everything we'll be doing is over on patreon.com slash girls gone canon patrons in the stranger tier the five dollar tier and above get special episodes every other month it's his dark materials themed and every other other month it is a song of ice and fire themed the other series that we cover. This episode, this month,

our special episode will be His Dark Materials, themed on the music in, around, and out of the worlds of His Dark Materials. We will be joined by the spectacular, not spectacular, Dust Podcast. And that is Matt and Holly. They'll be joining us to talk about the music of HDM. We can't wait.

So check that out. It has been a wonderful season with you all. A wonderful series of His Dark Materials Series 2. We have enjoyed chatting every week with you about the show on Monday nights. And keep tuned in because we will be continuing La Belle Sauvage. And hopefully we will be on to the Amber Spyglass by mid-year summer. So keep an eye out for that as always I have been Chloe one of your hosts

and I've been Eliana another one of your hosts and again thank you so much Cam for joining us for this episode thanks for having me guys always