Girls Gone Canon Cast - His Dark Materials Series 3 Episode 3-4 - The Intention Craft & Lyra and Her Death

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

The final series of HIS DARK MATERIALS on BBC/HBO has premiered. These podcasts will drop weekly covering two episodes of the series - today, The Intention Craft and Lyra and Her Death. SPOILERS: His Dark Materials Main Trilogy, Novellas, and HDM Series 1 + 2. also reintroducing: the first dust-cussion of the season at the end of the episode, covering anything from the companion trilogy The Books of Dust!   Become a stranger tier patron or above & check out our episode on the LOST episode from series two: https://www.patreon.com/posts/patreon-episode-50670984  Looking to catch up? Check out our full coverage of Northern Lights/Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, The Amber Spyglass, La Belle Sauvage and the novellas over at patreon.com/girlsgonecanon   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Intro: Waltz Of The Skeleton Keys by WombatNoisesAudio |  https://soundcloud.com/user-734462061  

Hello everyone and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Watches, not reads, watches, His Dark Materials, season slash series three, episodes three and four, The Intention Craft, and Lyra and Her Death. I am one of your hosts, Eliana. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And I am another one of your hosts, Chloe. Welcome back to another week of us girls going canon, watching,

not reading as Eliana commented, very beautifully done, Eliana. Never read. So smooth. Oh my god, in her life, in her life. Yeah, welcome back to our His Dark Materials podcast that, if you haven't listened to us before, you may have heard us covering the original trilogy, His Dark Materials, Northern Lights slash The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass, or La Belle Sauvage, the first book of Dust with plans to cover the second book of Dust, Secret Commonwealth, in the far future from today. Not 19 years in the far future from today not 19 years in the

far future not like that you know or not 19 what is it just nine years or whatever that time skip is yeah take future and you just hold that within you you know the future is what you believe it'll be but that will be coming from us as well and from our a Song of Ice and Fire podcast. Where we covered the A Song of Ice and Fire books. POV chapter by POV. As well as House of the Dragon. Which we have covered in full. From 1 to 10. Of season 1.

Welcome back. Now Eliana. The listeners at home. May not have known all that. But what should they know about our spoiler policy? What are they going to hear on this podcast. About the craft and lyra and her death yes so we told you all those books that we read and covered together as a podcast whether or not you're with us we were together with other people maybe and we are going to discuss the books pretty much in full, right?

So if you are coming into this watch-along of this podcast, like, having never read the books and you don't know what's going to happen because maybe you did not read spoilers or anything, come back at the end of the season, right? Because we are going to be spoiling things. We are going to be discussing the series in full. And that is also what it was like when we covered the first few seasons because they mixed and mashed, you know, some moments from the different books for the story adaptation.

So we might discuss also, we might discuss some of the other stuff, but Chloe, let us know like how that's going to work. Yeah, what we're going to discuss at most besides the main trilogy we may discuss the lantern slides that come in at the end of some fragmented notes from pullman's brain they're in the published works of 07 and later which are some fun pieces very rarely we might refer to some novellas some of the outer novellas which we've also covered over on our Patreon. We'll tell you about that in one sec. And I'll try to keep any spoilers outside of that to a minimum. Personally, there are, and this is a big warning for today's episode, hope, I don't know if it's only, it might be the rest of the season too, but there are some secret common wealthy moments. And I'm not not gonna like go far into detail during them

but i'm gonna be like huh that's interesting maybe i'll talk about them at the very end which if you listen to our usual episodes we have what's called a discussion so yes we might bring back that discussion at the very end to mention some of those secret Commonwealth thoughts. Yeah. So, and some of those thoughts pair well with things later anyway. So we'll warn you about when that happens. But also along with that, you know, because we are discussing both episodes three and four together,

some of our thoughts about episode four may bleed into our discussion of episode three. So if you are, you know, like taking your time and you haven't watched episode four yet as you tune into us also know that i would not want you to get spoiled because i think the devastation feels way better when you experience it all at once right yes all at once and hey that said patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon just to shake the little jar at you real quick.

We have some really cool perks like bonus episodes every month for patrons in the Stranger tier and above. While we also cover the A Song of Ice and Fire series and we are covering this month for our bonus episode, George R.R. Martin's The Ice Dragon novella, technically.

Not unlike Pullman's novellas, his short stories, too. We have tons of HDM-related bonus content that you can unlock by becoming a Stranger to Your Patron. Like all of those novellas, as mentioned. Every single one of them so far we've done, including Serpentine and including the imaginarium station of everything what is it called imagination chamber i actually had to think about it imagine the chamber she did say imagine you're it was like that sounds right then i was like no that was wrong that was wrong i just don't think i'm ever going to get it right is the problem and we also covered a moment other novellas such as lyra's oxford and once upon a time in the north time in the north and then also uh even um what was it

kind of a novella what the collectors the collectors the collectors re-released this year and that one's public now so check that out our patrons unlocked it for you so funny enough regarding series two jack thorne today tweeted about um you know based off of an article that i guess released slash was re-released yesterday about that standalone episode in series two that got cut because they couldn't film it because of covid, right? And we also had a discussion about that as well. We did an episode about what we think that standalone story of Asriel in season two might have entailed. Yeah, we'll link that below. And that is for patrons in that stranger tier and above. And I don't know, I really loved doing that episode. It was fun gathering kind of some

articles and piecing together some interviews and some of what we know of the subtle knife and what we don't know between the subtle knife and the amber spyglass yeah i saw energy uk who is famous for piecing together what was originally the concept for the golden compass movie right or or he he did play a hand in piecing that together he He was like, could you at least release it as an audio drama? And then someone else who is a storyboard artist for like, Doctor Who and other shows like that was like, do you want me like, he was like, I could make it a digital graphic novel and we can just release it. And I'm like, yes, yes, please. Any of these things, if any of you are listening, yes, I will take any medium that this could be released. And then also, I just love the idea of like, reimagining the story in all these different ways, right? Like, it's a story that's in love with art and would love to see any sort of artistic adaptation of that. Who and that's actually something I really love about Bad Wolf Productions in general.

They've kind of all evolved from a bunch of people that had ties through the BBC and kind of connected with a lot of those shows like Doctor Who that's hosted there. And there was actually a really great episode in series seven of Doctor Who that had a scene or a collection of scenes that didn't quite make it a storyboard actually wrapping up kind of some plot points that they put out as an animated storyboard and it was really emotional it was very moving it was very interesting the voice acted and really well done so i would love to see it as that i would love to see it come back to life and there was also an actress that he mentioned he works with in that joanne froggggatt or Joe Froggatt, who was Anna Bates in Downton Abbey and has been in a bunch of other shows. So I'm kind of curious what that role is.

Interesting. Is it an angel or a person or who knows what it is? But I mean, maybe it's the person he meets when he gets to this other world as he starts to get his little republic started yeah maybe like someone who is helping guide him through to to got say and stuff navigate the world his his kind of guy yeah i could see that his balthamos yeah lash spiel if you want to sign up to become a patron and you want to throw us ten dollars hit up the Thunder tier. You get access to our private Discord server for pretty much life. And that said, we threw some ragers.

And by ragers, I mean a monthly brunch slash happy hour full of shenanigans and games. This week's is actually, there's one happening this week. This month's is happening in just a few days after recording this and putting it out so uh if you want to join up and chat with everyone and hang out and just talk about life and play some reindeer games 12 18 2 to 4 p.m 18 18 12 if you're on the other side of the pond ah good call thank you thank you you know i just converted it ah good call thank you thank you you know i just converted it in my head you're oh you're a convert you're a uk absolutely absolutely i didn't know they just accepted converts like i don't think they do and then also we'll be doing some i think rewatches it sounds like some of the patrons want

to start doing some rewatches of season three in january oh nope i converted back i said season look at that oh my god you are so american girlfriend it's kind of weird the disjointed release schedule it's funny because all of us are like damn we feel like you all are literally across like you're very far you're in another world if you will from us like we had to separate from you guys did the had the London premiere today. Yeah, tonight was the London, or today. Yeah, yeah, that was the London premiere, and everybody looked very dashing.

Ruth wore a gorgeous dress. Daphne, oh my god, those gloves, you scandalous but very lady lady. And Amir looked great. Everyone looked great that I saw. I didn't get to look at more. After we record. I'm going to check out the tag on Twitter. Yeah. I am sad that Philip Pullman doesn't seem to have been able to attend

though because he had another event already scheduled so it's a bummer. Well, I hope he's definitely gotten to watch. Yeah. We watched. We watched. We so watched. And I gotta know, favorite scene, overall rating of the episodes what do you

got i don't know if i can like think of a favorite scene for this week the same like as last week it was just like everything kind of goes together and i don't know uh maybe lyra and yorick's reunion that had me really feeling things you know everyone loves knows that i love yorick's reunion. That had me really feeling things. You know, everyone loves, knows that I love Yorick Burnison. So I think that might have been my favorite, them hugging upon seeing each other again. Yeah, I liked these two episodes. I definitely placed them above last week, but that's purely subjective. And that's honestly due to, I think they had a lot of hurdles to kind of get around. They had like, you know, they had to get through that gap and the kids growing and the suspension of disbelief and like back into the story. And here's the world and here's the re-world building because it's been so long.

They had a lot to challenge them. This week felt like those challenges were gone in a lot of ways. And it felt like they were able to really jump into the thick of it and adapt their way through it. I even found, especially on rewatch, like I liked it a lot more on rewatch. I would say favorite scenes, Marisa and Asriel. It's been ages. Those were fun. It's been years.

Yeah. Oh my god, we needed those. And it was intense. And you can see kind of the passion, but also that venom between them, that toxicity, very loud and clear. And it was perfect in that. And for dusty reasons, dust-scussion reasons, we'll call them, some of those little nods that came through in her getting her mother's wardrobe. That was an emotional scene for her.

The slam, just the fucking, Ruth Wilson, my God, ladies, gays and gays. through and her getting her mother's wardrobe that was an emotional scene for her uh the slam just the fucking ruth wilson my god ladies days and gays ruth wilson the slam on the wardrobe boom oh my god chills yeah she she killed it this episode i love her going destruction oh that was so good too like both that and the slamming those were the moments to rival season twos i was talking about me because that was like that was a master class nothing will ever top ruth wilson staring at carlos just being like i was talking about me but those were like master class they can go in the top 10 moments they were up there they were good very good yeah i was here for ruth wilson she had me hook line

sinker yeah she did great yeah i think everyone's doing like really really strong work you know these episodes and i mean also another one is uh kit connor kit connor yeah connor did a great job too considering that you know he has to act as a little animal right and just like voice act with all these people so like i thought he had he did a great job too i was a mess and i didn't i didn't think i was going to be you and i were just talking you know we've just been a little tired you know life's tiring with these many episodes we don't get this whole uh pacing thing to to tide us through not a one a week so we got to kind of take off a lot and chew a lot. And that was, I didn't know if I was going to cry or not. And then like, as I was sobbing ferociously into my cat,

who both times I rewatched it, got into my lap. I'm like, this is not helping me. I would never, never part from you, Alice. I was just sobbing into her fur. It was pretty funny. Like looking back, I'm like, damn, I'm a mess. It was me when I leave for the holidays to go visit my family and I'm leaving my house. I'm a mile away.

And I'm like, no. You're like, I'm going to meet you there. I'll be back. Yeah. It was a. Meet me at my father's. Yeah. It was.

I feel like I knew I was going to be sad. Right. But I didn't. They really hit it well. And they warned us in the middle of the episode. And we'll talk about that. But let's start, you know, like how we get there with Lyra dreaming of Roger in the Land of the Dead and Pan while they have a talk. Yeah, episode three, The Intention Craft written by Jack Thorne opens with them there. And I want to argue it's not just the middle of the episode they warn us they warn us at the beginning they've been warning us since last week yeah they've been warning us since season one series one sorry that's true okay now but i digress i i love the trees here um it made me think of like the antithesis of like the trees with Mary later, with the trees with dust,

versus these trees that are bone white and empty that they're walking against. And the bone white, just quality of the whole world, and it's devoid of color, and it's devoid of dust, I'd say. Nothing's growing. Everything is barren here where they've awakened. But I do love it. I think it's beautiful. It was just a cool set to see them against. I thought the color difference and the outfits were really stark.

I really like those contrasts. And they look great against this color, too. Or non-color, I should say. Yeah. Pan says to Lyra, he says, what woke you? And she goes, I've slept enough. Which I'm pretty sure is a reference to Aliens. To Ripley.

She gets asked, do you want something to help you sleep? And she says, no, I've slept enough. She's a badass already. This episode, she's got her tank top. She is, yeah. That's, I think, a Ripley kind of outfit, but also, I mean, she has

slept enough, right? Like, aren't we always talking about in the books, we're like, I can, a Ripley kind of outfit. But also, I mean, she has slept enough, right? Like, aren't we always talking about in the books, we're like, I can't believe Lyra's asleep again. Holy shit. And then she sleeps for a long ass time, thanks to her mom. I'm glad they accept the most canon parts of the story. I'll let them adapt to anything, all because they make sure Lyra sleeps.

Yeah, that's true. It's important. There's a moment right after she says, no, I've slept enough, where she ties her hair up. And that means it's time to get down to business. But it does remind me of another child that seems to have a lot of unfortunate things happen to them, which is Violet Baudelaire from A Series of Unfortunate Events. Her master move is she ties her hair up

and then she can create inventions, which so, I don't know. There's a reference later from another child's story-h or youth story that you're going to talk about so i thought maybe they had a couple of little you know i think they're paying a few tributes here and there to our heroines yeah uh that's that's a fun that's a fun catch like i only read i think one of those books and it was not the first one uh someone just someone just gifted me like the third one for no reason i was like all right sure so i was just thrown in the middle and yeah it was it was fun but i don't remember anything about it you know what they actually kind of hold up i've re-read a few i've heard i've heard that they're terrible like i love them like they're a good terrible and

i do recommend the netflix series it's a really good adaptation if you are looking for a faithfully-ish adapted book series uh hdm and series of unfortunate events i highly recommend both had terrible first movies thanks to budget and thanks to cinema and uh studio and both then got a chance at resurrection and killed it so congrats i didn't even remember. I did not remember that they had a movie. Oh my God. I just blocked that out. But I wasn't,

I also wasn't, I wasn't looking for it. So that might be also why I don't remember it. I don't, I do not remember it. I mean, like also, like I said,

I only read the third book that was out of nowhere. It's time for Eliana to read these books. Oh no. It's my childhood now eliana oh my gosh we could do that we could do that i hear they're fun they're short they're fun yeah they are fun they are fun and like highly recommend them yeah someone also gifted me what the second book or was it also the third book of like madeline langel series you know the wrinkle in time books and uh i did eventually read the first one though so it's fine oh those were good fucked me up a little as a kid yeah they have some really fun ideas

um and and you can see like how you know people were exploring those kinds of ideas right like with with these sorts of books and those other worlds things like that yeah at that time and i love reading with you yeah we have fun we have fun what except for these episodes except for these episodes these were really sad like for example damn you jack thorn lyra is very clearly hiding things from herself right like pan's like what's wrong and she's like it's nothing and i'm like oh she's not being honest with herself and i did love the little detail though of like when she wakes up and she looks at pan she's looking at like will and pan kind of like sadly but pan is snuggled up next to will so kind

of touching him and i was like whoa that's scandalous yeah they're they're really playing up how pan is thinking that he should be by lyra right he's like we're gonna go do everything together of course right you know compared to like how they were at the end of the first season, they're like, we'll always have each other. And Lara's like, uh. And it really makes it feel even more like a betrayal as it was supposed to be. And as it is in the books, right?

But it really, really, really plays it up. It's really well done. And once more, we'll get to it but there's like a great contrast of marisa herself experiencing somewhat of a betrayal not really a betrayal but like having a similar scene in many beats and they're really pairing those stories so well together that it makes it flow perfectly i'm not really a fan oh my god this is a hot take I like them they're fine I don't personally need the magisterium scenes like other people can have them but I don't care usually but with Marisa back in them I do yeah and I think they're there because they are paying these people and they are

signed on for contracts and they're good scenes it's weird like it's not like they're bad scenes i mean will keen is putting his whole entire everything yeah into this like him like last week staring at the wall dissociating being like i serve a higher power uh in this episode he says a bunch of shit that i'm like oh you crazy crazy son but i just don't usually get off on them like i want the sadness uh me and you were just talking like we're weird we're fucked up we love being sad and i love the heartache of these two episodes but that said with marisa back in the play it makes me love these scenes right because gomez this is a quick one he walks up very seriously in the Magisterium. He's like, I've failed, McFail.

And he suggests they use more manpower, like a bomb, to eradicate Lyra. And it's like real quick. And then intro dance break, right? You get a... isn't isn't one of these episodes if we don't sing the intro at least a little bit no it's not i keep putting it in because i feel like it's important it is important but i i agree regarding the magisterium scenes they they have a lot more weight and interest with marisa back in them i also like them when like lord boreal was there you know i think that yeah they brought like this really like undercurrent to it it's hard because the

magisterium is like you're all c-listers right you're not marisa you're not carlo you're not asriel you're not lyra and i don't mean that in a bad way i'm just you're not likelo you're not asriel you're not lyra i don't mean that in a bad way i'm just they're not like c-list actors that's not what we're saying we're just like no no they're c-list characters yeah they're like you don't you want to see them be bad and then you want to watch your heart get broken and so they have a lot to fill and they do a great job i mean god wilkeen is killing it um baby Baby Kristen Cole, he's killing it. We love baby Kristen Cole. Do we?

The internet has started catching on to it. Yeah, I've noticed. No, we hate him. You're making fetch happen. And I'm like, I should stop trying to make fetch happen. No, Youth Hitler is catching on. And Youth Hitler Kristen Cole, sorry, that's his full name, is catching on. And he is really carrying a lot of this with

will like they're both really doing a great job um and there's even some humor at the magisterium today i think this episode was where the magisterium really started to work for me this season though last last two episodes it was there it was good but i could have done without it i could have like cut one or two is all like one or two just one or two it's so funny now that you were talking about like the the connections with how he does feel like a hitler youth character that is something that kind of inspired you know not to spoil too many things from the book of deaths but it's a prequel series so i don't feel as bad yeah and labelle labelle savage like this the idea of the league of saint alexander i'm like that kid that man was definitely that man was

definitely really he was a youth pastor is that what they said or what i'm just no i'm saying it he was a youth pastor for the league of saint alexander i'm telling you that boy grew up in that church area he is like i think even before a youth pastor like i think he's of an age where he could have definitely been one of the children in school who was uh who was very active in the saint the league of saint alexander i keep trying to say saint alexander first i'm like no league of saint alexander it's like religious or it's like very religious girl scouts boy scouts basically that tell on everyone even more religious than them. Like, take what you're thinking about religious and multiply it by 20.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's a, if you haven't read it, no spoilers, but check it out. It's a great, I mean, La Belle Sauvage is honestly a brilliant book. So if you haven't read it, it was a very comforting book. It was a great book to read. I really liked it for the most part. There are some things that I'm sure I've qualms with, but I love most of it.

And the Magisterium doesn't shine because it's placed next to scenes like this one. Asriel has kept Mrs. Coulter locked up. He gives her less uncomfortable ties. I swear to fucking God. I swear to fucking God. I swear to fucking god i swear to fucking god i swear to fucking god i'm like i'm like this is not this is not the first time that they have done this i was like this is not the first time and for some reason they have made us part of their like bondage kink it's very sexy it's very sexy and then they start discussing like their prophecy daughter kind of sexy too in some ways when you think about it.

Because like love is sexy. And also how Lady Salmakia is out there watching over her. And I'm just. Yeah. Very sexy. Why was it so sexy? Look. It was.

Why was it so sexy? Okay. If you want to know how our live chats go during the episode. It's just Eliana messaging me like no pan. And then it's me messaging her back like why not coulter and asriel fuck again and that's pretty much the episode i'm like but that this is the foreplay asriel and just call it like this is just them this is just their foreplay they're they they're really into it they're really into this long role play i also love that like when he first gets her that she's just been kept in the fucking

shipping container i think it's just i think it's just so funny to imagine her in a shipping container when you strip it when you strip it of the sheer kink of it all when you you know stop looking at it as but if you try to separate the two things, Eliana, just try for a moment. If you try to separate these things and you also look at that, like, it's a power play. He absolutely has the power over her, which is their cat and mouse relationship. That's their kink.

Bray looked at the hill in series one. That's their whole kink. That's what their... Okay, yeah, it does come back to kink. Fuck, you're right. But great relationship work in BDSM today. Class dismissed. Anyways, so besides the great relationship work in BDSM today. Class dismissed. Anyways, so besides the great relationship work,

I want to talk about two things. Two things. Marisa's locket. I love it. In series one, she had a locket that was like, it almost looked like the magisterium symbol, but a little pointier and could have been like an alethiometer-esque symbol if you really think about it so that was really interesting it's beautiful it has a few jewels in it it's

really nice really delicate she wears like in her apartment with lyra this locket is different and we know it's an important locket for other reasons probably i'm sure i'm sure actually there's a whole nother locket but this locket has like a design on it that are swirls and it's gold and it's almost like an hourglass or even reminiscent of the alethiometer and dust uh the swirls are very distinct and it's not it's not pointy yeah it's very not adjacent at all to the magisterium sigil that's a that's a cool like observation yeah i didn't see all that but i mean she's getting a little softer and obviously the swirls are important the dust is important and now now she got like themed jewelry she's like what if it was inspired more by my daughter even her outfits right not just cottagecore

witch from last episode but also this episode her outfits are like softer. Even later, the outfit for her mother, it's royal. It's purple. But also the sleeves are rounded. They aren't very like sharp on her. It's not very sharp. It's not her. Yes, she's wearing her Helen High heels heels, but she's not wearing the blazers that keep her contained in a cage.

She's not caging herself in anymore. In fact, that purple top later, that blouse in episode four it's flowing yeah right like she's flowing she is you know if lyra's eve and another world is marisa gaia like she's really getting it and hey ruth's outfit tonight you gotta look at her dress from who i haven't seen yet yeah it's also floral i'm like wow wow wow mother gaia we love you mother and i love that uh her heels were pretty cool, too. There were a lot of close-ups of it, and I was like, yeah. And I love her little, I think it's a one-piece, I think it's like a romper-y, not romper, it's like a jumpsuit.

I couldn't tell, yeah. It's very neutral, which is great, because she's in the middle of these great betrayals, this episode of going back and forth, going back and forth, and playing and exploiting these connections to find what the right path to protect her daughter is yeah so she has to play neutral she has to wear this little safari outfit that's also neutral yeah i mean she was wearing safari outfits last yeah last last season for a lot of that hunt but i don't know somehow she made like their fucking uniform look very stylish and i'm like oh the hardware like of it was like this gold color that pairs well with

the locket I'm like how is this how is this a look it is a look but I'm like how did she make it a look amazing talent so Lyra and Will discuss what Mrs. Coulter did to Lyra which was bad she's bad um after we had this entire discussion and how how Will's dad died. And also like confronting Salmakia's spying of them. And then they have to figure out what to do about the knife. Like do they take it to Asriel? Or like do they go to the land of the dead? I love that when she opens the alethiometer. She's like it always comes back to me.

Till it doesn't. Yeah. Later. That's gonna be sad too. What the fuck. Everything about this is. Anyways. Later. That's going to be sad, too. What the fuck? Everything about this is, anyways, I'm so sad. This is really good conflict to add to the story, and it works because in the books, this is absolutely something that happens, but it's on a different scale because they're

younger, obviously younger, and it's different when you have obviously 17-plus-year-old children. It's one thing to have a 27-year-old for gossip girl going to high school. You can almost suspend that disbelief. But children are different. I get it. That said, especially on rewatch, I was like, this is a perfect way to leverage your tension between them and to make it more adult. It becomes more of an adult thing. It's something they've never gotten to confront about their lives, right? Like

they've never gotten to confront. Will hasn't gotten to heal at all. He's been busy searching for Lyra. He doesn't even know his dad, let alone how to grieve his dad, let alone grieve his relationship with his mother, which is really why the knife has broken, right? There's a lot of really complex feelings, and a lot of feelings that you don't usually understand at age 15 through 18. And even and it's not just like it's that plus, as you said, like, he doesn't know how to grieve his dad because he in a way spent a lot of his life already grieving his father's loss right only to find out wait he was alive like but his dad didn't know how to get back to them and all that

and and then suddenly that hope is there for two seconds and then it's gone like what a mind fuck yeah and i mean lyra doesn't know how to love it's a problem you know what i mean like if she doesn't like this is something like she she knows she has issues because how could she not, like, look at her papa? And mama. Look at her mama. They are not the best examples. And she feels so alone, right? So, like, you feel equal parts hurt because you're like, Will, my poor baby, you are suffering.

And you're like, but Lyra is suffering, too. She doesn't know. She doesn't understand. Of course she feels alone yeah and yeah but it is a really great exchange between the two of them right that they they talk about those feelings and i think it's a great way to show the deepening of their relationship which i think they're doing a wonderful job of really playing up and i i love that before they go off to talk right when will first wakes and he's like where kind of where is he right he has this look of relief and joy when he sees that lyra is there and then they she's like you're staring and he's like yeah so they're really like

starting to build that sort of romantic tension that's meant to be between them and i think you said this when you know as you were saying, we kind of live message each other every now and then, but there are those parallels with Asriel and Mrs. Coulter. Because both of them say to the other, in this scene, Will and Lyra say to one another, like, oh, you're kind of different now, right? And that's what Asriel and Mrs. Coulter said to one another in the scene before. And also want to i want to acknowledge this is something that we discussed last episode and i don't know i kind of complained about it it was it was a complaint i guess of how that knife breaking scene was shot and the ambiguity around it but they made

it explicit in this one they said aloud that it broke because will was thinking of his mother yes they told this time because they were worried that their show wasn't enough tell. Well, okay, but turns out they were right based on how some other people who didn't read the books interpreted it. So I think it's good that they did that. And that's sad.

They do other things this episode that tie it all together, right? Because then the forging in general that we'll get to is beautiful and it works out. I think that works out really well to show instead of tell so yeah anyways the foreshadowing of the separation that's to come between pan and lyra you know pan gets a little too far on the log right and he jumps and transforms into a magpie our friend cassidy confirmed it for me so i was like is that a magpie? It looks like a magpie so that was painful, very painful, thank you

I didn't know if that's the bird that I'm thinking of that we saw because for one of the magpie ones and then they show a shot of him flying and like his feathers had this great sheen to it that was kind of the way that the

shine on the subtle knife is described and even like the fur of kerjava i would say oh multi-colored and you know what matches that but also it has that oil sheen kind of look which is probably what would be created by asriel's blowing up the sky if we weren't ignoring his climate change which we are this show's propaganda but i mean they're ignoring that but they're really playing up the he likes to kill kids they even brought it up again this episode so yo you know what i can't i can't fault them they are also like i've been very happy about that yeah i think it's i think what they're doing with azrael is very difficult but i think that they're executing it really well.

Yeah, especially because of Lyra and Will's reactions to that, right? To their fathers. Yeah. And that's like a big part of their discussion, which is great. You have also, besides Pan being a magpie, a lot of the scenes this episode, he's in a lot of white furred animals in the previous episode like, the few that he's not. And I think it really feels like that idea of, like, that sort of innocence that's going to be lost by the end of this episode. And by this episode, I mean episode four. And then also, as you said, right, they talk a lot about their dads. And Lyra and Will are going, they're going to get to the conclusion that they go against what both of their fathers want. You know, Lyra especially is kind of choosing to go against Joppery's last wishes and plans.

And of course, Will goes along with Lyra and doesn't do what either Asriel or the angels want. And it's, you know, we talked a lot about how people kind of underestimate these kids, but I think it's significant that they don't choose either of their dads, right? They choose themselves and what they want. And that's the point of the whole like message of free will that this story is about. You know, it's you're making your own choice outside of any authority, whether that's like a religious authority, some sort of other moral institution, etc. Or even like your parents authority, that's that free will and being able

to choose for yourself is core to that humanity but also in in general just growing up because a lot of it is an allegory for growing up it's true making your own choices and whether you're allowed to or not making your own choices learning to take care of yourself learning to cook learning to cook whether that's an omelet or not yeah like putting eggshells in your omelet or not putting anything in it yeah mary leaves her orphans and they give her a bug out pack which is very nice yeah i have to say what color what ambiance what sound what atmosphere at least someone gets to vibe this season right mary gets it all mary gets it all also so we were talking about the name of one of the the orphans last episode being like what

joseph no i don't even remember it likely yeah blakely and this one they gave us the name of the other orphan the tall one is maddie uh so we got their names now that's it something about the scarf that mary's wearing as she like sets off. There's like this pattern on it that reminds me actually a little bit of the amber spyglass or maybe even dust. It's kind of like a circle thing over like a sort of bronzish star. And I'm like, could it be an amber spyglass? It could also just be like a little sparkle of dust.

I don't know. It's fun. Well spotted. I got to go look at that again. I don't think it's exactly that, but they gotta go look at that again i don't think it's exactly that but they do a good job of kind of tying i think the the costumes with like these little things in general in the costume department they're always on theme always yeah especially yeah and all of it we love mary in this show it's so fun yeah anyone that says his dark materials is not a comedy is wrong because the next scene is fucking pure comic genius everyone votes to kill marisa except

azrael and he's like let's put it to a vote he's like well my vote wins yeah he straight up says that like i don't know the exact verbatim but he really says that eliana he's like everyone let's vote about what to do with our prisoner and everyone's like I don't trust her and Asriel's like hmm but I do I've been in that pussy and I know what lies within and he invites everyone there and he's like we're all gonna do a trial and it's like Asriel all these people did not consent to be part of your your kink with Marisa you know this like role play that you two have going on. All these people did not have to get dragged into it.

But Ruta does make a good point, right? And she reminds us about how Marisa tortured a bunch of witches, which if you think about it, that's really part of her path of how Mrs. Coulter found out that her daughter is Eve. Because that's a pretty big point of all of these all of these episodes lately i love that because then just like 20 minutes later they torture an angel asriel tortures an angel and it's like oh but you're supporting him too yeah yeah that's true and then they're like oh this is gonna go bad for us isn't it

yeah so back at the magisterium father mcphail's fucking losing it um my husband this man i live with the one comment i have on this is his uh his demon talks to him not my husband's father mcfather yeah it sounded like you were saying that father king

bradley bradley that guy you live with i'd be smacking that little bald head of his smack smack smack will keen um no but my husband did say if you're a game of thrones fan you'll know that i personally now feel will keen would have been a great stannis i i think yeah even delane was great but will keen like is stannis in my head now it's all i see i could see and my husband in return said mella salamander yeah i will let you all sit with that i don't know if this is important if it's necessary but mella salamander is his demon yeah i mean steven delane was great but will keen's got great like i'm grinding my teeth right now.

Energy throughout this. Every scene. And this scene especially, right? He's like, I'm talking into the flames right now. And his demon comes out and she's like, well, my king. And he's like, I'm so frustrated, especially when Mrs. Coulter's there. Teeth grind, teeth grind. Yeah, yeah, I could see it. So at the campfire, Will is being moody.

And Pan tells Lyra, just say sorry. Don't be combative. So they make up. It's very cute. They're all like, I know it's hard for you to say sorry. And they talk about splitting up to get their tasks done. And then Salmakia just comes out. She's like, you've been lying to me about the knife.

I also want to point out that Lyra very cute even though they're fighting it looks like she's wearing will's dad's jacket at this time so i love high school also i understand for budget and like probably production reasons and cg reasons why they probably don't have chevalier tiales but i just really liked Chevalier Tiales' arc, and I guess it, like, Salmachia is just gonna, like, be both of them, but I don't know. It was important because they had each other to play off of, and they softened one another and both hardened one another too in the conversation. Yeah, and they're just not as big of a part, it seems like, because they're not even going in the underworld.

Yeah, she just portaled back over to Asriel to update him. I don't know. I'm trying not to think about it. However, last week when I yelled at you and was like, I'm not talking about it, because what if? I believe. I am wrong. I've never been wrong in my life. This is a first for me, and it's honestly really painful.

So I'd like you to just like nod through this. Thank you. But I am not correct about it. He's's not there and this is where i felt it i literally thought about you i was like oh eliana is gonna be so upset about it because it's true i forgot i forgot i forgot that you said that he might still be there i still thought that he might still be there actually until this and like if they're playing down their role then you know i guess that makes sense but it's just hard when there's only one of them in my opinion just for the dynamic because it made the power difference between them like easier if there were two gallifreys versus

the two kids does that make sense yeah and i guess it's expensive i get it but yeah and there's a lot of things that they gotta spend money on in this season. There's so much to come. I mean, think about The Abyss. My god, I think about it every day. They've been animating a lot of demons also. So like, even that. Demon presence is definitely up.

When they were talking about would they ever release and like, still shoot that standalone episode from series two? Right? James McAvoy was like, I would love to do it, but I don't know. Stella Maria is really expensive. She's fucking beautiful, so it makes sense. Yeah. It absolutely makes sense. Well, Marisa gets let out of her captivity, and she's given a new outfit for her trial.

Costume change. This is a really elaborate foreplay. Yo, he bought her an outfit for he did he did so i love that she started off this whole thing trying to like girl boss them being like you know i've done so many things like i would call and then they're like no you killed a bunch of kids she was like i can't believe you've imprisoned me here. And like, as a woman, and I've done, I'm every bit as good as Asriel as an explorer. And they were like, no, you're here and imprisoned because you killed a bunch of people that we cared about. That's true.

Now, that said, I, Marisa Coulter's personal defense. I'm just here for the comedy. There's a lot of comedic moments with her she's a queen like that yeah it really stuck out to me that her demon was in chains right, her monkey was in chains it was very symbolic especially as she was yelling

she's like, yeah I have a murdered husband and an illegitimate child that's what I have to show for you, Asriel I was on the upright path i was so bright i was sparkling i could have changed things but then a man happened to me which is totally a myth i thought that was just very symbolic and i loved getting to see her lash out and just to be honest with all these people who are judging her i love mommy yeah and i do think she was honest in this it was a fantastic performance and i like after that first moment when she's like all right

fuck it and as you said starts being honest that that speech amazing i mean realistically you could tell he was so turned on by her he was like oh i'm so fucking hard right now like that's why he moved to the back so you couldn't see his heart on that's why yeah he hid his boner he had to hide it realistically though like uh coming back to earth from our kinks our kinky sex fun time but these two it also brings up that question of like who do we let into the republic of heaven right i think that was also very apparent like it brought the politics like these councils being formed them being involved whether or not it was fair or balanced and whether or not asriel was like oh but shorty's so good in bed uh whether or not he was like i could make a

second baby who was eve or eve 2 eve squared whether or not he was like that these people like almost got to say more than what they were getting in the world of the magisterium so like to say this is better is a wow that's astounding and sad and b it also is bringing that politicking of like they're trying to decide what is our limit like how do we keep our people safe how do we run a world after this war is over even just thinking that we do live through it that feels really serious and important of like establishing a world moving forward if we're really gonna do this yeah that's a that's a great point because if they let her in then what what is our vision of justice in this world right where people who kill kids all the time like and who kill witches right and people that

we care about who have done nothing wrong like yeah if we're letting them in but it also raises another good question like is there is there hope of not just you know punishment like when it comes to justice but also this idea of restorative justice right like do we believe people can change etc also i like that we have a gunway present for this trial because him being there and agreeing with marisa's discussion of you know what the magisterium does to children and her love for lyra and what she wants to do to protect her child she's willing to do anything to make that better world for her child, really, I think, resonates with his character and why he joined this fight. And so that helps kind of make it less of this gendered, you know,

mother's love kind of thing, right? And more about being a non-shitty parent, even though Marisa was still kind of a shitty parent yeah because a gunway also comes from a world where it's like they have something to fight for there's heart to their fight right and again something i really am praising them on because i'm a known asriel hater when it comes to the books right i'm like fuck asriel they're giving me that they're giving me that nuance of like oh asriel sucks he really actually sucks in these episodes which i do think they'll leverage into his character having kind of a humanizing moment later or two this is something

important to these people who are like we gave up everything and brought our people here and for what yeah and like the cause of what he wants to do in general, right? That vision is good. It's like very, they really nailed worst guy you know makes a good point. Yeah, God bless the onion for producing this season. No, I'm just kidding. Will and Lyra seek Yorick to get the knife fix. But first, Lyra must go see that hut she was traumatized in recently. If you remember.

There's this amazing shot. I need you all to rewatch it, stop it, and stare at it, where Lyra, the camera is just looking up at Lyra, and there's a bright blue sky with clouds in the background, and she's looking down at this hut. It makes me wonder if we will see this angle again in the season from someone looking down over a great hill or an abyss it makes me wonder if maybe this is how we'll see coulter in the end and even asriel looking over the edge a shot of them like this because it was just such a striking shot there were some very beautiful shots in these episodes the cinematography is on point yeah absolutely it's yeah they're just really also

beautifully done episodes and just because i want to twist the knife a little more you know lyra says to will that she's never been held before right as she recounts her memory of like i think my mother might have been holding me but i I think that was a dream. Like, that can't be real. And she's like, she's never been hugged before. But later in these episodes, right, she and Will hug. And it's kind of like a lingering hug. So they're holding each other. But then also at the end of episode four, as Lyra is screaming in pain, Will is holding her. You're under arrest.

I'm personally arresting you. Thank you for connecting these lines. Have a great life. I never want to speak to you again. Yada, yada, yada. That is what happens, and it is devastating to be so alone. The council deliberates, and they basically call out Asriel. They're like, Marisa is your Achilles' cock slash heel.

We can't say she stays yet just we need to make sure you know that and then they're like all right she can stay ruda is like she can stay but i will kill her so if she fucks up i'll kill her yeah and then they bring up the knife right in in the council they start talking about the knife and she's like oh ha ha sounds like a special knife was it important or something i don't know anything about it hahaha the boy didn't have it bye she's like oh whoops and i love that you know she's just a terrible mom she's just like i don't i don't like my girl's new boyfriend and you know she insults will saying that he seemed to fancy himself a hero but he's kind of insipid and then she like looks directly at asriel she's like oh i know exactly how my daughter fell in love with

that boy hmm yeah but other types anyways so we get to my favorite scenes of yorick and lyra reuniting those are great and then we have the moments of, like, the alethiometer, and she's looking it up while leaning against Yorick's fur. Just, like, moments in season one. So beautiful, so beautiful. Ugh, it was so beautiful. I'm sorry. I was so emotional.

And then it says, you know, Chloe, can you decipher for us what the alethiometer said? The alethiometer said, Outlook hazy, try try again when lyra asked if she should go to the out the land of the dead it was like try again later not so sure maybe you shouldn't but nevertheless lyra persisted we have a saying at girls gone canon which is lyra no lyra yes and lyra did yes this one I have to say this reunion's great every scene connected to Yorick in this episode is great especially the reforging of the knife as we get to that we'll talk more about it but I love this I love that Yorick quotes the books there right

he says the knife has intentions too it's's important. Turns out it did. And I love, I just love also seeing him call her, he laughs when she lies to him. She's like, yeah, the lithiometer said we should go. He laughs and then calls her like still a silver tongue. And it's so beautiful. He's the one who named her because he's her real dad. But also I like this message, you know, this discussion that they have around this idea of doubt, you know, and why doubt is sometimes good. Yeah, she, I love that there's something really great happening here where she says to him, she's like, yeah, but you've messed up, Yorick. Like, you're saying you've never messed up you're casting that stone i literally met you when you were fucking up in a bar she says that doubtful of yourself yeah she's like you had a lot of doubt yeah she's like i have receipts but there's also this part of her right she has very

appropriate opinions on her mother i would never tell her how to feel about marisa because let's face it marisa has been a very bad mother, an abusive mother. But there's also that bit that we learn in, what, the A Song of Ice and Fire books, for example, right? That it's not just good or bad. There's a pile of good and a pile of bad of deeds you do. Or from Ms. Marvel, it's not something you are, it's something you do, right?

And we're seeing that trajectory for Coulter this season that she might not be doing it for all the right reasons at the time, but she thinks that she's doing it for a good reason and that she's doing the only things available to her in a horrible way, fucked up way. And later it kind of informs her opinions as well, right? So Lyra is saying people aren't good or bad, and Coulter's actions show us that right we see the true conflict especially in these two chapters of coulter between asriel and the magisterium going

who's going to protect lyra that's what i want to vote for yeah absolutely and she does doubt herself even though lyra says those people don't experience that i'm like i saw her doubt herself a lot yep and then someone who is wonderful mary wandering about in some new world uh i love that again in regards to her people's clothing she's got this like very comfortable looking t-shirt on that has like this little graphic of like palm trees but nonetheless they are trees i love it i love that mary is just like the perfect auntie yeah she is she is the next scene is mcphail sharply questioning dr cooper throwback from season one at bullvanker yeah until she tells him what they learned about dust splosions i love the way she's been adapted into this. There's more of it throughout this couple of episodes,

but, you know, in the books, it's a male doctor, Dr. Cooper, and he gets a little bit here and there and gets brought back in, but she is fulfilling an interesting role and possibly even a compass for Coulter to spin around in the next episode. We'll see, depending on those.

I think Coulter's getting a few good graces in, and I think she might be ableter's getting a few good graces in and i think she might be able to exploit cooper to get out of there or to falter the bomb we'll see cooper mentions fighting for a new eden which is so sci-fi right the idea i mean a new edens in so many different stories like city of ember where there's a dying city and they're trying to leave it and go somewhere where they can all survive. The Machine Stops by E.M. Forster, which is in a dystopian future written in

1909 where humanity lives in cubicles. Ha ha ha ha ha. Communicating only via technology. Experiencing everything secondhand. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. But the machine that has rendered humanity depend on it, right? Like, the planet's livable, but the machine is that has rendered humanity depend on it right like the the planet's livable

but the machine makes everyone live by it so uh uh but this is like such a sci-fi dystopian concept of making a new eden when all else has failed uh which is so funny right with the magisterium because i'm like you guys are just such drama queens like your society hasn't failed you failed it bro yeah and they want an eden where i I guess, they think no one sins, I guess. No one ever. They have no free will, right? Because until they were cast out from Eden, they had no free will. It's perfect when it's put up against later when Coulter calls them out.

Yes, exactly. And also, I forgot about that book. I never finished because I, like like was waiting for the second book for the city of ember and by then like whenever it came out i never ended up reading it but i should finish i loved that book pretty good i did finish so i would recommend the whole series nice i think they're in my google books library i think like i don't remember how people felt about the ending but i didn't really keep up. So I'll just have to find out for myself sometime.

And you can tell me, but don't tell me. What if you're like, you're experiencing my color of mind. So anyways. Oh my god. So Marisa examines the intention craft. Ruto's suspicious of her. And this scene kind of tells me that they do have some history beyond the torture of her fellow sisters, right? It seemed familiar.

It makes me wonder if we're going to get a little more unraveling of that yeah there was a moment where she said something like you were always impressed by asriel word like that yeah maybe she did fuck asriel maybe we are going to get that in this version i don't know it doesn't mean that her and a gunway aren't going to be a thing though yeah no i mean like people she'd like people can hit it and quit it that's fine i don't know what my witch and soldier thing is but it's a thing it's officially a thing yeah i mean i don't think it's just like a thing because technically lee scoresby is not a soldier right so he was for lyra that's true true. Just like Marisa. Yeah. Yeah, the ultimate soldier.

God's strongest soldier for Lyra. Yeah, they had that scene together, you know? Speaking of Marisa, Roke brings some really bad news about the knife, right? End of Mrs. Coulter's lies to Asriel. And Asriel goes out to confront Marisa, who's hanging out by the intention craft. They get into a heated discussion with some assault involved. And it's about their mission to come and their differences.

And then a proposal is actually made after that. Yeah, so it sounds like, I guess, the Galabaspians, as we discussed, don't go into the land of the dead and die. And also, I can't believe that she's just going around calling roque the insect hilarious it's probably actually very rude but she doesn't care and yeah yeah i don't know hbo seems to like how be going through a phase where they're really into i guess men choking women that they disagree with lately i know it's two shows in a row but at at the same time, I think that it stands a purpose because they want you to know Asriel's not like a great guy, I feel like. Like, I really think they're hammering at home. They're like, Asriel, dark, gray character.

Yeah, and it's bad. But at the same time, it works as gray because at the same time, you're like, Mrs. Coulterlter also not good just got out of having kidnapped and drugged her daughter so you know i mean it's very much yeah it's uh it's giving cersei and jamie right yeah also i thought that this exchange where he's trying to kind of i think hurt marisa with like everything that you've done in terms of your ambition meant nothing because like the authority is a whole lie right but he says at the beginning of that discussion with her like that everything she did like was to kind of gain power so I don't know I've never gotten the impression both in the books and in the show that Marisa really ever cared about the authority or

god like everything she did was just practical in terms of her quest for power like i don't think she's really that sad about is god real or not because she's out here killing cardinals no i don't think that's really a problem for her because i think moreover like i think she was raised thinking her family's god not just god god right like i think there's a relationship with her mom that we'll definitely have to explore this season more i don't think it's just gonna be this episode i think they're gonna pepper some more in from what it sounds like of her relationship with her mom which is a complicated and painful one it sounds like yeah which is granted part of it is because pullman wrote that in um in the later in the later books but it is

interesting that we get a lot about Marisa's relationship with you know her mother but we don't really know anything about like Asriel's parents like why are you like this the generally the generational trauma is only like following you know the maternal line yeah but to be fair to that it's a great thing to follow and explains it, but to be fair to that, it's a great thing to follow and explains. It's starting to show some of that coloring, right? For Maurice's backstory and make her a little more of a sympathetic character

in some aspects for us to follow. Will examines the knife as they start to do their intention crafting. Yorick guides him. He hits a block and he sees his father and sees Coulter, but then Yorick reminds him that it's about Lyra. Or not about Lyra, but your ultimate goal to help Lyra, right, in a way. He focuses about what's important to him at Yorick's guidance and sees only Lyra and it's beautiful, a beautiful flash of lightning in her. And he reforges the knife.

It's a gorgeous scene i really love this scene it was everything i wanted him more before he passes the fuck out on the ground yeah i thought it was it was well done but also i love that you called it out as that intention crafting because when i was watching it the first time through i was like it's not technically a scene so i couldn't call it a favorite scene in that way but i was like i love that they made it a double entendre right the episode title was like I love that they made it a double entendre right the episode title of the intention craft that it wasn't just about

the ship but literally the craft of intention and that's a little bit how the book is too right I'm really happy that they kept that together because those scenes are closely together and as we'll get to some of you know Colter using the intention craft i think it's

i'm so sorry i'm saying this word i think it's intentional no it absolutely is so well done very fun very fun he says to her that she can come visit him on svalbard she's always welcome on svalbard And I just want to say there isn't going to be a Svalbard, you stupid slut. Oh my God, it's going to melt away. Okay, that's sad. Not in this version, I guess. It might not because the angels said they're closing all the windows, right? They're like, we're going to clean up Asriel's mess, I guess.

So maybe over time Svalbard can come back. you're right they're not they're not doing the climate stuff at all no central asia no so how does yeah how does the sea hmm they could retcon it in if they wanted to for it if they do that but i mean the real truth of is they don't have the bandwidth let's be real but they have so much They already had to go a lot of places, right? They had to shoot in a lot of places and bring so much CGI. I'm just saying that his climate change erasure is a bit much. Asriel's climate change has to stop his erasure of it. I did think, you know, as you said, right, like the way that they did this intention crafting scene with the knife it it was really great and how they focused on all those different people and i think it was a

creative way for them to approach the scene because i guess watching a bear hammer at a little knife and then telling the kids to concentrate um and lyra like fanning the fire um it just doesn't have the same charm i guess guess, when they're not children, right? In that way, because I think of them like being hilarious little kids. And it probably would have been too hard to produce. So I think that this was a wonderful way to do that. And I love the way that they, in Reforged Knife, have those cracks still very, very visible.

Like scars. Exactly. Like Will himself and his body right and i don't know i'm i'm still just big sad about york saying goodbye and that they wouldn't meet again if she doesn't make it out but they he's there at the end of the book right yeah that's when he tells her he's going to central asia yeah so but they do meet again i he he could still say that they're going to central asia and maybe it's after the war that he says hey everything's melted because of this horrible war between yeah while we wait it out maybe they'll move it around we'll find out

while the angels like fix everything yeah i mean war does happen to increase those holes in the ozone and all that jazz. So Asriel shows Marisa the angel that he's holding captive. He's like, is this impressive? He brings that like lens in front of it, right? To show her that it's an angel. And it's reminiscent of the first episode, right? Where he has that special kind of film that he uses to show her that it's an angel and it's reminiscent of the first episode right where he has that special kind of film that he uses to show dust to all the scholars at jordan college yes the special processed film yeah he also has this line where he's like everyone's beautiful and i'm like special you mean you meant special yeah i do think that is intentional. Oh.

No. I don't even need that. An intentional craft. Will and Lyra post knife crafting, which just makes me think I'm playing like a video game or something. Like, yeah, we crafted a knife. We had enough materials. I made a risotto. They start to talk about Will's trip and Balthamos arrives and meets Lyra, which is very sweet.

Will decides that he will go to the land of the dead with Lyra after all. Yeah and Balthamos tells him yeah he can't enter the land of the dead and it's like pay attention Pan because it's foreshadowing about how creatures made of dust cannot enter the land of the dead and you as a demon are made of dust. Yeah I didn't even think about that too i'm so glad we're not watching this one together we watched hot d together and you know that was sad in some moments we had some good sad intimate moments but this one we would just be blubbering because also we'd be annoying but we'd be blubbering i didn't even notice that i would have just been sad there too it's horrible it. It's all hurtful. Everything's just building up to being hurtful.

I love that Will gives that he's going to go, especially because he could have a chance seeing his dad, maybe his papa once more. That boy will follow her anywhere, first of all. But second of all, he has this line that's so sad. He brings his mom up. He has two momisms in these two episodes. He says, my mom always said, if your friend needs help, you should give it. line that's so sad he brings his mom up he has two momisms in these two chat two episodes he says

my mom always said if your friend needs help you should give it which is sad because we know that will doesn't really have a lot of friends in his life before this and now he does he has a best friend uh if you like saying papa maybe you should give downtown abbey a watch sometime maybe it's time for me it might be time so ruda and a gunway talk about how asriel and like hear about the angels are gathering to zephania and they worry like i don't know are the angels really gonna fight for asriel right turn against another angel especially for this guy who has an angel prisoner. Yeah, I love that it all rests on how they treat the angel, which we see, well, we'll see in a moment how they treat the angel.

It all rests on that. And it's going to create some discord between the angels that may have maybe joined him and not. And this is something that's not 100% elaborated on or given in the book so i really like that they went with this because it was too easy right like it was absolutely too easy that like all of a sudden zephanie's like well we want to rebel for the final time so we'll just join your cause and that's it there's no problems uh you need some camp drama so this is actually really good yeah yes i think it's good for how they've been playing out the show it doesn't bother me in the books because yeah it happens

off screen right and also the what we're supposed to be taking from that is that a lot of these angels not so many of them are like on the fence or in hiding um they are playing it very like that you know like paradise lost right they're they're mad they were cast out they lost this war and they feel they feel mad that someone is trying to hold this power over them like that so i think that the books strike that same tone but here it makes sense for what they're exploring absolutely completely. Completely agreed. I think it works perfectly. But yeah, so they are torturing. Oh, wait, sorry.

Yeah, Asriel is just, again, he's making Zephaniah's job harder. And that's because they're torturing angels now. Yeah, we're torturing angels now. Yeah, he's like, is this going to turn her on? And if we bring this other non-consensual person into our anyways so asriel discussed how marisa invented devices to cut the soul and how he's now using that technology she invented to cut through worlds and i'm like so wait was he still killing kids like with those devices like was it just like hidden in the background the power source of like took a random kid from your

world oh look at this cool window i don't know like are kids powering the intention craft i don't know well i don't think that right like oh my god jesus getting the fucking mecha shinji kun that side i don't think that. Like, I don't think he's using that for the intention craft necessarily. Where would they keep the kid? That's powered on their thoughts. Yeah, where would they keep the kid? That was actually, that was the problem with their relationship.

Where do we keep the kid? My god. Yeah, that's why they got rid of Lyra and then they left each other. Was Roger just that good? Was his soul just that fucking big? I would believe it. Roger was amazing. Because you'd think he'd kill a couple more just to keep going.

Like he still has a little canon going on there where he's like, boom, got a hole in your world. I think he definitely killed at least one more kid. At least one more kid. Where's his story? Right. At least one more kid. Where's his story?

Right. And I guess, I don't know, he says aloud of the last two episodes that I killed and murdered an innocent child once. But I'm like, was it only once? I don't know. Maybe he figured it out after that. And do you believe the rest were guilty? Right? I mean.

Anyways. So, I don't know. were guilty right i mean anyways so i don't know while they torture this angel coulter locks her demon out which i i took coulter locking her demon out of the room as you know her separating herself from her soul right putting her soul outside the room knowing that she was about to embark on something that was horrible devious devil like yada yada yada yeah it did it i i didn't notice that but you're right it's definitely kind of like i'm on monkey watch this season yeah okay here's one thing that i kind of wished we had gotten in some of these scenes i wanted like moments between the monkey and stalmart stalmaria uh i wanted like a weird like hesitate hesitant touch between them or something i think we're

gonna get it in their abyss fall if we don't get it before then i know we're gonna we're gonna get something we're gonna get it eventually but like i don't know they're just glued together i might be an azrael and marisa shipper but at heart like i'm a furry no i'm just kidding i'm not a furry oh my god at heart i'm a stalmaria and golden monkey shipper. Yeah. So, and also, I thought there was some, like, really great film work, you know? We've been talking about how great the cinematography was, but after Asriel is done, I don't know, eradicating the angel, the light is kind of, like, goes out, then there's, like, this dim light, and you can see, like, little dust motes kind of floating in the light when it comes back on.

That's beautiful, yeah. I love all those little in-focus, out-of-focuses. And then while Asriel's distracted, which I knew, as soon as I saw the intention craft of this episode, I was like, oh, this is the episode she steals it, right? The intention craft. Marisa pilots the intention craft, and she doesn't stumble once so take that as real i mean this woman can control specters so you ain't shit that's true give her the bafta the look on his face it's incredible because he's like so astonished but also he's like yeah and he gives her a little wink almost he's like yeah go on babe i know you'll come back that's just their

relationship it is it is and i kind of wondered is the lingering look between them you know and marisa leaving to do what she feels she must do to save lyra meant to maybe parallel lyra looking back at pan at the docks oh that's perfect because i feel like there was an understanding like a hurtful understanding there of him being like, I know you're kind of betraying me, but I know what you're doing it for, and I want it, but I don't know how to want it. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And, yeah, it's very sad, because then, again, it goes straight into Lyra and Will, right, where Lyra and Will are eventually figuring out how to cut through to what seems like the land of the dead. Yes. And I love chubby white fox pan form. and Will are eventually figuring out how to cut through to what seems like the land of the dead. Yes. And I love chubby white fox pan form. It reminds me of this like anxiety fox plushie that I have, which is very soft. And I don't know, I'm not trying to be a hater this season because I am really enjoying it. It's just, you know, some things like obviously envisioned differently, but I do really like don't get me

wrong I'm enjoying I'm loving the series so please don't weigh these things that I say too too heavily but like I get why they did the land of the dead this way but I just do really have a special place in my heart for like the exploration that they did of the suburbs of the dead the like little shanty towns and stuff that as they describe it in the books and the idea of it like being this sort of like mirror world and then the guy dead on one side and then suddenly here he is alive over his body on this one so anyway and then the episode ends with pan just like alone just like the next one but anyway yeah i i do love it i love i mean the nuance and what it means right the suburbs of the dead because like also if you've ever been to a suburb like it's just a depressing ass feeling

uh and the stories of the deaths i found it really powerful in the books and if you haven't read them yet and you're listening to us and you're fine with spoilers yada yada yada uh definitely go check out the books on this but i i've come to kind of like terms with it um and we could talk more about here in episode four but uh i've definitely come to terms with it a little more and that like now i feel better about it but at first i was like man i wish this was the suburbs of the dead it it works right then i understand like what they have to do and it works but i just thought there was like some a really strong message like what you said right about the whole suburbs part and like not just that like this kind of like vapid existence of the people were living and just

waiting for death in that way like that they weren't yeah they weren't living you know so and who is in a suburb my god my god no i. No, I'm just kidding. No, some people are, you know, I guess. But anyway. Episode four, Lara and her death. Yeah, written by Jack Thorne once more. Once more. Yeah. Episode opens and they're walking on a paved road, which I thought was interesting that

it was paved. And Highway to Hell is blaring in the background. That's not true. I made that up. I would have believed you yeah especially because i'm a silver tongue oh my god mary malone's about to roll up or not roll up oh i guess oh are they not doing that there's no wheels babe i just thought that maybe it could like retract and like be there like wheelies or something, that was me that said it. I'm sorry.

It was a lie. Oh my god. I'm sorry you believed me. You're a silver tongue. I'm a silver tongue. Wow. No, babe, I'm so sorry. So sorry, so sorry.

Yeah, they're, uh, Mary's got her kind of unpaved roads to roll up on, right, compared to their paved. And Pan is concerned there are no demons in the land of the dead yeah and then you just have lyra kind of gaslighting herself and by that i mean pan being like it's gonna be fine you have nothing to be afraid of i don't know why you're being so afraid it's fine pan and then they think they're so smart right because on this highway to hell that they're walking to as aliana so cleverly quoted it it's not just that but also like lyra and will are on separate sides of the road with a dashed line in between pan is walking behind them right they're ahead of him and nowhere near them and

then if you compare the dashes on the road to the intro, if you watch the little His Dark Materials Diddy intro. It's the same dash as the dust that appears on the screen for Amir's name and Daphne's name. It's fucked up. They're fucked up. They fucked up with me. Like, why would they do that to me? Hurtful. Absolutely

intact. Yeah, Candid59 and I were pointing it out and chatting about it today. It is... it is hurtful the whole show is hurtful but that's just unnecessary unnecessary uh a great thematic foreshadowing through visual aid there thanks for that storytelling i hate it you have mrs coulter flying yeah i know right everything's so painful like from here on out you have mrs coulter flying the intention craft right everything's so painful like from here on out you have mrs coulter flying the intention craft to the magisterium and making an entrance so that was fun that part was fun yeah and then you have a dance break for the intro

we still don't know the lyrics yeah print out the dust thought that we had it and we thought they had it so god till next week they enter a station where the dead are being observed and checked in and lyra will get stopped because they're alive lyra lies of course and they get sent into a holding area with a slip because bureaucracy is not dead even in the dead coulterter and Gomez chat. Coulter tries to play in with the magisterium again. Amazing. And meets with father, president, daddy, whatever, Macphail. And she further... Fury King Bradley.

Fury King Bradley. Oh my god. She incites further war with him about Asriel's angel murder. She's playing both sides. I love this political scene where she's... I love this political scene where she's going back and forth it's kind of a practice run seduction for metatron later and then it fails this time as we come to see also marisa calling him hugh is the funniest thing in the world like i'll never

get over it that yeah everyone's like you mean father daddy president king fuhrer bradley uh and she's like hugh banging on his door hugh hugh hugh where are you she's never gonna let him forget that you fucking weirdo loser yeah hugh it is absolutely great but yeah they have some fun tense scenes and then you get lyra and will sent around to a bunch of different mundane rooms really playing up that bureaucracy right of nothing getting done under the authority and then you have father gomez bringing a peace offering to marisa her dead mother's wardrobe and then a new friend appears, Lord Roque, who has taken an interest in Gomez's interests. But not like he supports them, but like, what is he doing? Yeah, like he's jotting it down about his interests.

Like he's spying, yeah. Yes, he's a little spy fly himself, you could say. Oh my gosh, wait, you're so right. Yes. He's a little spy fly himself, you could say. Oh my gosh, wait. You're so right. Wow. Thanks, Bestie. I love, this has some Secret Commonwealth vibes, babes. We're going to talk about it later in the discussion. But I also love that there's like this menace when she gets the wardrobe that it's like,

what's in the box? It's a trap. You know, like it has all these like suspenseful feelings. It's your daughter. Yeah, but it's worse it's her mother's clothes what could be worse it's her mother's clothes and there's definitely that feeling right about how recently she had her daughter in a trunk passed out huh but here she is and she gets a trunk and thinking it could be her body's her body parts of her daughter or like

you know anything it could be horrible horror but it's her mother's clothes worse but it also turns into a weapon for her as we discussed yeah but oh that's so funny what you're saying about her wearing her mother's clothes right and and being frustrated with that because that's how the series starts lyra being dressed by mrs coulter in her clothes i think i hate this it's also how this series starts not just series one with the dress and all the clothing but also this season because like marisa is dressing her marisa is keeping her as a doll as she was kind of kept yeah and she was in pajamas and she had to go to the fucking land of the dead briefly in pajamas so vulnerable so terrible mary wearily rests at a tree with the e-jing where she nods off for a bit

and we head over to will and lyra in the land of the dead where they are walking around asking if people know how to get where they gotta go without a death and they learn they actually do have deaths and that once they find them they can go to the boat man and his boat so this was my other favorite part of the episode mostly because i was like oh i see they can go to the boatman and his boat. So this was my other favorite part of the episode, mostly because I was like, oh, I see. They're talking to me, the audience. They're like, why would you want to watch a film that makes you feel horrible? And I'm like, shut the fuck up.

Why would anyone want to experience a story that makes them feel horrible? And I was like, oh, they're talking about the end of the series. Turns out, though, they even just meant the end of this episode and i was like that's hurtful then they say i let she goes i like the one with the bear and i keep thinking i i gotta watch paddington too sometime it could be on the list yeah i hear people cry watching it really yeah is that gonna be you are you people i don't know i cry it a lot so you know again i watch a lot of films that make me feel horrible i did laugh at that line it was it was pretty it's pretty good since we're all sitting here just watching this show over and over again uh i love the the way everyone inside

this station is not them right like how they react how they interact and some of the people they meet is interesting uh the older woman they meet and the gentleman they meet there in that room and that they kind of start to talk about death with yeah yeah they were they were nice and i like that they were kind of seated far apart which uh implied once you realize what they're talking about it's space for their death to sit with them um and i get why they didn't do it but i did i kind of wanted to see like the creepy dudes from the books but i also understand why they didn't because it it might have like not translated well on screen or something and and i like that they mirror them right like it seems their deaths that we did see like lyra's death mirrors her clothing wise and

hair yeah exactly exactly and i thought it was a good touch right that they have will being like everyone's staring at us and being really uncomfortable about that because with his personality right his protection has always been being invisible and he's suddenly very hyper visible and i mean you're gonna be really hyper visible in the land of the dead you know being alive amongst dead people really makes you stand out and poor pan is just so scared about everyone talking about their deaths he's like cowering and squeaking and it's just so sad the poor kit connor i know i do and again i love the book's version of the land of the dead but I think that there's something really clever with this interpretation like they did have a holding area and kind of like a way

station right for the land of the dead in the books but they played up the train station aspect here and I think it works well in terms of the stories that his dark materials is responding to right that philip pullman is is kind of critiquing a little and is in his books and the whole this idea of it being a train station might be a reference and perhaps even a response to the chronicles of narnia because um i think i don't remember like some something about like Pullman maybe saying something about it being like a little mean-spirited in the way that some things were executed right and I'm about to spoil like the ending more or less or like a very big part of the Chronicles of Narnia so please I'm gonna wait five seconds or ten seconds and then I'm about to spoil it. And so 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Booty booty boo. All right, so the children who still believe in Narnia, right, of like our main characters and shit, and could still visit it, end up dying in a train wreck. And then upon their deaths, end up going to narnia and it makes that death into something sort of like a blessing because then they can be reunited like in this sort of like holy land of heaven right and it's like lion jesus and so playing into the idea of the train station and having it be a commentary on Narnia, I think works because, you know, the train station shows waiting for death as this kind of stasis, right?

It's meaningless. Like, why are you only thinking about the time after? And that longing for death isn't actually a cause for celebration, but it's the end of thought. Yeah, and I guess I never finished those books. Me and you have talked about this a little bit, that I haven't read those books. Oh my god, I won't tell them, don't worry. I've never read these books in full.

I had a couple of them growing up, and I just never got into them. And not in a bad way, I just never did. I just don't think I read it. Like I think I had the books and I was like, yeah, whatever. They'll be there still. But the magicians does a really good kind of tribute to this in, I want to say series two, they go to the underworld to get someone's shade back and bring back their soul. So I definitely think it was influenced by both Pullman and by C.S. Lewis in this for sure, because there's a way station, the Underworld Meadows, where you go to get checked in and wait, and they have to pull kind of a heist off to get the shade out, and

they come up with some conflict of not just the shade they were trying to get out, but then, you know, someone else they could save, yada yada yada um they do a great episode of it and it's funny that the magicians is coming up so often so far in these episodes for me just because you know i watch through all the episodes and i actually think there are a lot of great similarities as far as a fantasy young adult somewhat science fiction oriented in some aspects kind of show an adaptation i find that really interesting but i definitely think they're pulling from lewis and from pullman and i think that makes sense because

the magicians is you know it very well might be inspired by by these books right it's published afterwards and some of the commenting on are similar yeah it's kind of like yeah um exploring some similar themes you know in terms of like well actually let's let's deconstruct some of these ideas which is what pullman's doing in this book series. Coulter is very into repenting her sins and dresses in her mother's clothing, as we talked about, to head to the chapel with Roque nearby. But instead, she gets a little side trip. She reunites with Dr. Cooper and learns about the bomb before security comes to lock her up for her emails. I mean, lock her up. I did really love Mrs. Coulter's interactions with Father Jerome in this episode.

It was just great comedy. Oh, yeah. She's perfect. She's having a blast. Or not. Oh, I get it. Not yet. Like I said, I'm loving the return of Dr. Cooper.

She survives getting stabbed by Serafina in season one, if you remember. So she's an intense character. And in the books, her adaptive counterpart, Dr. Cooper, gets taken prisoner by the CCD after bullvangering, kept in a room with basically nothing but a chair, a bed, and a bucket. And after he speaks to the father daddy president of the ccd he mcphail he's granted better quarters and basically instructed with rediscovering the old research from his colleague from bulwanger who theorized how to harness power of intercision like asriel had done to create a bridge to another world aka this bomb so very thoughtfully done and

really well adapted yeah i forgot and about yeah same and also um the fox demon is cute yeah in the books it's a rabbit i want to say so i actually kind of like the fox in the show it's very cute so in the land of the dead lyra invites her death after heated chat with pan and will about being here and why they have to do this thing and that replaces you know her disagreement with the gallabespians where will and lyra were actually on the same side about that um and this one they've kind of sort of played up this sort of disagreement between Will and Lyra. Yeah, they have kind of played it out in a different way. I like that they've split it up between Will and Pan.

It's great because then it shows Lyra lashing out right against both of them who are supposed to be her only support. And I think it works well for the frustration she's feeling and the guilt she's already feeling at all of this. Then you have Father McPhail overture praying to the authority while Gomez gets like the Lyra hair and then they begin to experiment with the atom bomb. Yeah, Father Gomez has this kind of prayer overture

where he says only through your love and your guidance will I find the strength to do what must be done to lead us to salvation and i thought that felt a little fitting for other parts of our story right like coulter who is kind of using lyra as her guiding star right now her borealis so to speak what she's looking for in the sky to take her somewhere her northern lights but also it comes back to this idea of sacrifice that mcphail is making versus the sacrifice lyra makes at the end of the chapter right like she chooses to separate from her demon in order to go avenge the unfair death of her best friend who she spent some of the best years with as a child who was the only person there for her for a good amount of her life, right?

Her sole confidant, the person that she felt she could trust and be around. And that's kind of a real sacrifice, what she's trying to do in letting Pan go, in breaking up with him, in, you know, making her boyfriend go with her, even though she doesn't know the effects on him yet. None of us do till next week uh but mcphail's not making a sacrifice for himself he's not making a

sacrifice there there's nothing that he is sacrificing in this what is he sacrificing i don't know his uh dignity well that's gone sister let me just tell you uh that's the thing though like coulter isn't a sacrifice for him. What, it's a sacrifice because you don't get to, what, savage her body with your virgin hands? I just, like, you know, it's not the same. It's not equivalent. Those sacrifices are not the same at all.

At all. Yeah. They're really not. They're not. Yeah. He's a silly man. That's certainly a way to put it. There is an interesting discussion going on that I really liked with Dr. Cooper telling him that the hair attracts the atoms of Lyra, right?

That the hair wants to become whole once more. It wants to find Lyra wherever she's in. Excuse the heresy, she says, lyra wherever she's in excuse the heresy she says but whichever world she's in that the atoms want to become whole once more which kind of gives us a little bit of foreshadowing to the end of the story right of pan and lyra finding one another after being separated because they are atoms of a whole but also lyra and will and their promise to one another when they have to separate right that painful, like that they will meet once a year at this exact time and place and that this is as close as they'll be able to get to those atoms becoming whole once

more. And the idea that like, you know, you, you, your atoms merge with another person, you merge with another person. They make you better and want to be better and they drive you right. And you want to protect them and they want to protect you and you want to defend them and you want to fight for them and you want to fight for something and feel something, which is like the entire idea of vanquishing death doesn't exist in life. What happens is that you live. That's how you vanquish death, right? And these atoms can't be together.

They can't live together. Yeah, they can't until, yeah, until they die. And yeah, I loved that. And absolutely, yes, in regards to the atoms finding each other. Yes, in regards to Pan and Lyra always finding each other. But also while, yeah, we have to wait for Will and Lyra to, you know, die and their atoms find each other but also while yeah we have to wait for will and lyra to you know die in their atoms find each other that way even like just now right like with the beginning of episode three and stuff will will always find lyra that's what he did he like traversed a bunch of places in order to find

her and so you agree will and lyra endgame and books of dust three i mean they fucking i mean in general not just books of dust even beyond right um beyond canon yeah as we've discussed i i think like you know when you split your body up into a bunch of atoms you can you can be with a bunch of other atoms too you know you know what i'm saying i think you're saying that will and lyra should fuck other people and still come back to one another in the future yeah yeah I think that's what I got from that kinda that's kind of what I'm saying cause as you said right

you have to live like yeah well and because them this is so far later in the road here in this series but you know like it comes back to the idea of her living in his world as a half life it's not a to that idea of her living in his world as a half-life. It's not a real life.

You can't live in his world and he can't live in your world. And you're killing yourselves just to do it. And that's also not what love or life is about. And not what you would want for the one you love to live their life like. That was a tongue twister. I mean, the whole thing. It's not just a tongue twister. It's a heart twister.

I mean the whole thing it's not just a tongue twister it's a heart twister anyways Lyra to get even more horribly philosophical and sad talks to her death oh god also sad heart twister tongue twister her death says I can get you in but I can't get you

out of the land of the dead yep so I thought that this was speaking of the cinematography like there were some really fun shots here and the way that they directed where people were in the scene because it starts with lyra and her death looking in opposite directions right and they look kind of askance at one another um until they finally agree and when they agree and are on the same side and she's like, you were there when all these things happened to me

and happened to Roger, they are looking in the same direction, right? So it kind of shows through their body placement that they're in agreement. Though poor Pan is very much disagreeing with Lyra's death and be like, no, I think I know her way better, excuse me. And I also like that her death calls her

by her true name lyra silver tongue and not balaqua yeah because she's her and she's her i love that uh it's great it's interesting i didn't know what i expected i honestly there's this black mirror episode where like if you block someone in real life they just like become this shapeless yeah they become this shapeless like removed shape and that's kind of what i expected the deaths in my head for some reason to be like i watch too much tv and uh it wasn't and i like this better because they still like she is very much lyra right like her outfit is a muted, demure version of Lyra. She still knows everything about Lyra. And it also makes me wonder, like, is this a type of, like, death sentence in a way?

But, like, a work study for her in death, right? For her death. Like, what else is her death doing? How does someone get assigned to be someone's death? I have questions. Yeah, I guess I always kind of assume that deaths work like demons interesting you know they're just there you have one at birth yeah yeah and like because i granted in the show it might work a little differently but in the books apparently

they kind of all look the same more or less practically so you're just born with like a man a fully grown man whose face is in shadow wearing shabby clothing and he's just there the whole time that's what i assumed in the books not too far you're not too far so mary awakens to berries mary Berry. From the Great British Bake Off. Water and a towel. The offerings are so sweet. It's just like a nice first exchange between them. And uh oh, she leaves behind her little blanket or towel thing. I'm guessing that will be how Gomez finds her scent later. Because Marisa unfortunately did give away that there is going to be a tempter and she

said she wanted to find the tempter or keep the temptress away from lyra well now gomez might be like huh that's kind of smart did you think about that daddy president also i didn't catch it first time because my head wasn't in it but duh it's berries and mary is eating the berries because you know eden also the underworld in some aspects but not here but uh the the fruit of the garden she's eating the fruit from the garden yeah it was it was a great tie-in to the role she's gonna play later on especially because in i don't know if they'll change the fruit but it it'll probably be the same fruit right because at the end of the amber spyglass the kind of fruit that Lyra puts into Will's lips is a berry. Yeah, I mean, they're coming from that area. Their picnic comes from there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think they told us in an interview that,

I guess, the Malefa might not have wheels, probably, but I feel like I don't know that I remember that for sure, and I'm like, maybe they could still have wheels yeah maybe I'm being foolish I'm being dumb but I don't think so I believe so will Lyra and their dads go and they see the ferryman and then Dr. Cooper gets guilty drunk

with her demon and before she can do anything about this bomb situation she's stunned by lord roque who steals the lock of hair back from her yeah that was a big pour it was a big pour and a lot of a lot broke oh you and i were so disturbed we both messed like same time like oh no the the alcohol what a waste that does provide context for how stressed she is though like uh coming back to a lot of what we said in season one right it does remind you of the nazi doctors The alcohol, what a waste. That does provide context for how stressed she is, though. Coming back to a lot of what we said in season one,

it does remind you of the Nazi doctors, right? The scientists. Yes, yes. But I was just taking orders, because here she is taking orders to the extreme and watching it up close. This is very stressful. And her huge, poor shows, she was very conflicted over it. And I really do think, especially with how her and Coulter interfaced earlier before, you know, getting taken into custody, I think that there might be some sympathy for Coulter coming from her.

I think Coulter might be appealing to her a little bit. Yeah, there is. There is. So I thought that was interesting because she was like, you always treated me really nicely. And I was like, fascinating. thing because she was like you always treated me really nicely and i was like fascinating so then you've mrs coulter burning lyra's hair and deciding to find the intention craft and rain destruction into the magisterium and again i love that moment where she goes destruction you know when she's burning the hair it feels like is the monkey urging her to do so um kind

of like the salamander maybe urging mcphail to like burn himself i don't know it's an aspect of like hurting themselves because she does bring up are you still hurting yourself hugh but i don't know i think that might be me reading too much into it but no i think that kind of stands because uh especially with the last episode right like there was a little bit of that flagellation but she was doing it for lyra and i think you're on to something there especially the are you still hurting yourself hugh like are you still hurting yourself for this for all of this but will and lyra in the next scene are getting ready for a different kind of breakup the kind of breakup where another hurt yourself yeah another hurt yourself yeah actually though actually, though. Like, literally, yes.

We're hurting ourselves as we watch this. Total flagellation everywhere. Will and Lyra walk down the hallway right on the way out to the ferryman, and it's an amazing shot because there's something really neat happening here that I didn't notice on first watch, but on second watch it stood out. When it's face on, just will and lyra talking you don't see lyra's death but then it goes in and it closes up on lyra's face and then it kind of pulls out and you see her death so it kind of gives you the idea of a point of view right that we're seeing

will's pov in the first shot and lyra's in the second because will can't see her death as we learn and she can't see his he can't even see his but will can't see anything yet uh really amazing dreamy shot either way such great symmetry in that closed space and a wonderful use of light that makes it so much bigger inside than it probably is but also smaller at the same time and of course when they finally come out of it just a very very gorgeous and sad shot yeah yeah and as you're saying about the use of light kind of plays with you right because she opens the doors and it's a bright at first and you always think of like this bright light when you die or whatever oh like going towards the light

yeah oh my god they are going towards the light oh my god jesus literally and then yeah literally but then and then they're not because uh it's dark and then it's real sad. ha he helped me kill the cardinal for his job but he reveals his evil villain plan that she is required for the bomb and she's going nowhere great work comparing these two scenes once more with lyra's next scene where she separates from her demon uh just what he says like oh and you too will be severed marisa for my evil villain plan yeah it was i don't know i thought it was a fun scene and then you know she had all that hope all that hope as she thought she was gonna go get out of there i even i really love that scene preceding it for her like with roque where she's like he's like we have to go back to asriel and she's like no lyra, Lyra, Lyra. Great character work going on.

And then I love this scene because she calls out their hypocrisy, right? Even though she's always known it. She was born into the church. She knows everything that goes on here. And she always has exploited that and leveraged it in her favor, right? She tries to use that on him and it backfires. But there's a satisfaction in her eye, even while he has her her bound and captive she has this look in her eye because she proved it she knew it was fake from day one she knew they all knew they were all playing by a different

rule book that she was never even like eligible to play and win on right she was never going to win their way even if she played by their rules they would make up new rules and that's what they've always done and in this moment it proves it she gets to yell about it to everyone and i loved it yeah and then when she's done yelling about it you know they silence her and then he he goes after her he goes after her sex you know like it's it's really something but great work from ruth wilson acting but also I think some great like body like acting as well from Will Keane. He had some really great annoyed moments, but what I like, and probably because like

it was never going to work out, like obviously because we know how the story goes, but when she's calling out their hypocrisy, I don't know. I was kind of like, Marisa, don't just tell them. You all know I'm telling you the truth. Look inside yourselves. You know it to be true, all right? She could have invoked Fra Pavel and been like, you want to know if I'm telling the truth? Ask the alethiometer, right?

Like, that's a fail-safe way to be like, is it true or not? But, I mean, I guess it didn't matter because no one cared, right? They're all here and they're following him because he gives them prestige. He gives them power. Their power flows through him. So, like, why would they go against him? And then, as you said, right, the hypocrisy, like, none of them really care about God, but, like, also neither did she.

So, whatever. Yeah. They're all on the same page. And, yeah, I love that it's not even about the truth anymore. Never was. Astronauts. Boom, boom. Shoot, shoot. love that it's not even about the truth anymore never was astronauts boom boom shoot shoot so lyra then must separate from pan and will must also make an unseen sacrifice as they take the fairy to the land of the dead and i i there was some fun moments like maybe it was technically

the earlier one right where he threatens the guy i thought great job great job ferryman also fantastic acting on his part also great acting on on amir's part and i love that he held the knife to him daphne's of course yeah i loved it especially because the gun right the earlier scene with the gun when he put it down he's like i can't but here he's like for her i can we have to do this this is it uh and i there was something also really great what was it when she like put pan on the boat she's like he's small he travels well she's like he can come look she's like look he's on the boat it's fine we do it all the time it's fine and then he's like yeah i mean he mean, he can come on the boat, but the boat's just not going to go anywhere. She's trying to steer it.

She's like, let me just pull the lever. He's like, you cannot pull this lever. It will not work. Only I can pull the lever. What don't you get, small child? It was great. Horrible. Oh, yeah, absolutely devastating.

But you brought up, this is something I forgot to say earlier in the episode. You brought up, you know, Will threatens the ferryman with a knife because he is a fighter right and uh the gun earlier but like he is a murderer and as we remember lyra thought that was very cool of him last season and in the second book and so i thought it was kind of funny that they had lyra like questioning will like you would go and work with lord asriel you would side with a murderer i'm like whoa whoa whoa i thought that was the appeal of will it felt very inconsistent right and it's interesting because it's not um it's not the first hypocrisy in these two episodes that she had right because she had the part about her mom in the last episode in a way where she didn't say

it but she was like yorick you know you're still a good person even though you did horrible terrible things and i still like you and i'm like yeah you're so close lyra yorick's also a murderer yeah that's what she liked about will that he was like yorick a murderer yeah well and it shows that pain with her parents and what they've done to put her in that kind of situation for sure yeah absolutely if you don't watch your show with subtitles on you need to because there's further heartbreak that you cannot hear happening in the background in the first part of this scene where her and pan are like fussing back and forth and it's when will is threatening the guy actually and talking to the guy it's happening in the background and then then we focus on lyra and

pan and there's the most heart-wrenching part oh fucking christ i want to die when she says what about roger and sal they never got a chance to grow up i am so in pain they didn't they didn't get a chance to live and now lyra has to live for them except for how roger got way taller between the past few seasons but we can't help that. Not even hell can escape puberty, Eliana. Well, puberty is the hell. No, yeah, I agree.

I was like, oh, I'm so glad I have these subtitles on when those scenes were happening. I was like, wait, am I glad? Now I'm in even more sadness. And I love that they kept in the ferryman doing the thing where he's like it's not it's not like what a rule he's like it's more like a law and then he does the thing where he reaches in the water and then shows gravity he's like it's like this yeah that's i was really glad to actually see that it's small i i it. There was a lot of little bits from the ferryman in the book that did

come through that kept that very true to text, which I really appreciated. And so also, but something I was wondering, I guess he wasn't screaming in the books. Maybe he's just like being quiet to support Lyra because we didn't really see Will's pain.

In that moment. Like moment like yeah his literal physical pain because his soul is also being torn out but he could be just playing it cool for Lyra now I went back just because I wanted to kind of analyze that and I feel like where the episode exactly ended was at the line when basically in the books the prophecy is fulfilled right that Lyra's biggest betrayal is fulfilled and that's where we ended the episode now in the books, the prophecy is fulfilled, right? That Lyra's biggest betrayal is fulfilled. And that's where we ended the episode. Now, in the book, after that happens, the next part is, but Will too found an agony building inside him.

And through the pain, he saw that the two Galavespians clinging together just as he and Lyra were doing. See, they ruined it. No, I'm just kidding. Clinging together as he and Lyra were doing, were moved by the same anguish part of it was physical it felt as if an iron hand had gripped his heart and was pulling it out between his ribs so that he pressed his hands to the place and vainly tried to hold it in it was far deeper and far worse than the pain of losing his fingers but

it was mental too something secret and private was being dragged into the open where it had no wish to be and Will was nearly overcome by a mixture of pain and shame and fear and self-reproach because he himself had caused it. And it was worse than that. It was as if he'd said, no, don't kill me. I'm frightened. Kill my mother instead. She doesn't matter. I don't love her. And as if she'd heard him say it and pretended she hadn't so to spare his feelings and etc etc so I'm wondering what if we open the next episode on Will's reaction instead because we had that POV change in the hallway where you see Will is talking and you don't see the death walking with them but then you change to Lyra

talking and you see the death so i'm wondering if that little bit of pov play back and forth might give us the start of the episode with will's reaction i think or i hope you're right because i do you know like i do understand why they ended it this way because you can't just suddenly have will's pain right you're the focus here is on lyra and i think that was the strong choice to end this episode with so i completely understand it it was beautiful it was it was amazing fucking gut-wrenching um but i think what you said like i i am hoping that they're gonna show it and i assume that they will because they did reference that it does happen you know in this one so yeah and i i forgot that the passage

goes like that it's very it's very 1984 when that guy's being tortured and he's like do it to i forgot that that other fucking person his lover instead yeah it's uh it's dark it's a very dark and i mean will is dark right he has a very dark core to get into he's had a lot of pain he's a murderer damn oathbreaker wait that's the wrong series whoa wait wrong wrong book uh a different series but he is he's dark and complicated and lyra loves him yeah and they're going through this horrible pain together and this is horrible this was so horrible we're going through a horrible pain i dude i was crying i was crying that was a fucking mess my husband went to bed the whole because this keeps happening so late to us my husband can't do the second episode and i can barely do the second because i'm old so uh it's been quite a journey so far i've had to re-watch

the second episodes especially just because like'm falling asleep a little, but this I didn't fall asleep through because I was too busy sobbing. Yeah, right? You're like, oh, that'll wake me up. Yeah. Yeah. And it only gets better. Yeah, it's like it's all downhill from here, huh?

God. Well, you know, we will be back next week to cover... Are you doing your secret Commonwealth stuff? Yep. Oh. we will be back next week to cover... Are you doing your Secret Commonwealth stuff? Yep. Oh. We will be back next week to cover the next episode, cover the next two episodes, and then we'll come back for those final last two episodes where it gets sadder and sadder.

That said, we will be doing a quick discussion. It's not going to be too deep. It will be spoiling the Outer Trilogy, the Companion Trilogy, the Books of Dust, La Belle Sauvage, the Secret Commonwealth. The Sandwich Trilogy. The Old Sandwich. So if you do not want to get spoiled for that, please log off. We don't

want to get you too dusty and we'll see you next time. Yeah. So discussion. Interesting that they have marisa's mom dead and i don't know if it'll actually matter that much but in the book of dust number two the secret commonwealth which eliana's really working on finishing marisa's mom is alive yeah so that's interesting that this is like from her dead mom and she it was implied that her mom's gone i think in season one as well i noticed that then too so and i think you could do uh and i'm just spitballing on like their future plans i still think you could do secret commonwealth with her dead and use her

dead in the same manner as horrible as that is we don't know what book of dust three holds but i don't know i also think that lyra might meet her eventually but i think you could still do it if she's dead that said i agree i think you could still do it if she's dead and like play up more of i don't know the anecdotes from her uncle or also like it could it be that it's one of those things where granted then the magisterium window she's alive but like is it something where maybe marisa's like she's dead to me you know right and not just that but because madame delamere is such a bitch such a horrible woman uh and put so many unfair expectations on marcel in the book like we learned that that he's very stressed about his mom like like it's all about Marisa is that little like axis in the relationship it's not about

him his hatred for Lyra comes from his sister because his sister who was supposed to be perfect and better than everyone then fucked off and ruined her life and he had to bear the brunt of it and be better than her and that stress from his mom so i think because of that i don't have an issue with that right like i'm like it could all come from him and that craziness can absolutely exactly yeah yeah yeah i agree i agree i love that it makes her more legendary in that way like she's a legendary evil character yeah it could work i think it could work and then i mean a lot of people have been talking about this as well on on twitter right in general of how there's a lot setting up

the rift between pan and lyra and the secret commonwealth with with the way that they're treating each other here like he said like you're leaving me you made your mind up that hurt oh i felt that i felt that in my fucking soul i felt stabbed in the heart they did a good job of really making it feel like a betrayal because of that and yeah it really shows how that can play into the way that the relationship evolves or devolves i don't know later on so i don't know, later on. So I don't know. Great job. Great job, team. They did a great job of adapting some of the secret commonwealth into this. And this is only episode four, which makes me think we're going to get a lot more secret commonwealth drops throughout the rest of the season, which I think will connect it to possibly doing Books of Dust.

I feel more open and more optimistic it could happen after these two episodes. Yeah, it's not off the table. feel more open and more optimistic it could happen after these two episodes. Yeah. It's not off the table. I think that if it happened, it would mostly be like BBC driving it, because I'm just saying that some of the way that HBO is doing some of their shows, et cetera, lately does not inspire confidence that they would be super interested in it. But I think that BBCbc probably would yeah and i absolutely look forward to watching it if they do exactly you know we we held it together i think we held it together emotionally as we made our way no tears no tears thanks for listening and i hope

you have some kleenex at home to wipe yours up with yeah and you know if you want to keep up with our episodes we're we are likely not going to drop like i don't know never mind ignore that if you want to keep up with our episodes um as the series goes right and as we as we march our way towards the end you can keep up with us on social media twitter.com slash girls gonegonecanon. That's C-A-N-O-N. Or if you have anything that you would like to say to us, you can also, you can tweet at us or DM us or send us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Yeah. And as always, you can find us over on a platform near you that you like to listen to your podcasts.

Be sure to like, follow, fave, give us a review or two, whatever you can do for us. We would love it. That's over at Spotify, Google Play, iTunes, Stitcher, Acast, iHeartRadio, Audible, Amazon Podcasts, Pandora, and many, many more. And somewhere that you can always find us is on patreon.com where these episodes do come out. But also, as we said, we have those bonus episodes of some of the other stories in the his dark materials universes etc and other analysis of things within that world and that's available for patrons in this stranger tier and above five dollars and up yeah and we

also do some really special events for our patrons in the Thunder tier and above, like our monthly brunch slash happy hour, which is taking place December 18th, 2022 from 2 to 4 p.m. E.T. Phone the fuck home. And we also plan to have some Series 3 HTM discussions and rewatches going on in January with our patrons. So we really look forward to that and hope to see you there. Indeed. Indeed, indeed. Well, thanks again for tuning in this week. And I don't know, I guess like, feeling horrible with us. I have been one of your hosts, Eliana.

And I've been another one of your hosts, Chloe. We will be back next week with some more heartache for you and maybe even some stories for you because I think we got to tell them stories, right? Tell them stories. Goodbye. Bye. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you