Girls Gone Canon Cast - House of the Dragon S3E4: Tumbleton

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

SPOILERS: ASOIAF, F&B, KOT7K, TWOIAF, ETC WELCOME TO THE GAME (of thrones) DAERON TARGARYEN! Rhaena's teenage rebellion comes to a head with Daemon remembering he has a daughter, and we're really rooting for Ulf the White to come out on top.   all this and more within this week's episode of HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. :)   Check out our patreon where all members get early access to House of the Dragon episodes during the season @ patreon.com/girlsgonecanon NEW INTRO: thank you kevin macleod and pixabay "The Descent" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Dragon Studio + PhatPhrogStudio on Pixabay  

and welcome to House of the Dragon Season 3, Episode 4, Tumbledin. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your host, Eliana, and great title, once again. They're really hitting it out of the park. No, they did. They did. I thought it was going to be like the battle or whatever. Sorry, spoilers, but not that sorry.

And it wasn't. And I was like, but it was perfect. It was perfect. It was a setup. No, I take it all back. I was like, man, I... Wow, you were wrong one time and you grovel? Yeah.

Yes. I was like, this was good. You're going a little far for me. I don't know about all that. You didn't like the title for this episode. I thought it was fine. Actually, you know what? There were a few things in this episode.

I thought we're fine. Okay, I'm ready to... I'm excited to get into it. But before we do, sorry you guys already talked about a battle. This is a spoilers all podcast. We talk about everything from the World of Ice and Fire, Song of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blind, One Night of the Seven Kingdoms, the Dunkin' Ignavallas, whatever you want to call them, and the Wins of Winter, and the shows.

Wait, what? And the winds of winter? The excerpt chapters. Oh, sorry. I was like, Eliana, don't tell them we have it. What the fight? are they going to know? I mean, like, obviously we do. That's why we're so good. I mean, look under your chair.

You might not, just because I, like, threw it in there and nestled in there last time, um, we're a podcast. We're in a Song of Ice and Fire podcast. Yeah, we cover POV chapter characters. So, like, we start with Acewaffe. You've heard of it. The legend. The myth, the lore. We open up Acewaffe and we start with one character at a time. That's right. Chapters move in a linear fashion. You say, Chloe and Eliana, this can't be true.

Wow. It is. It is true. Yeah. So we started with Ned. We're on the very last POV, which is Tyrion for us. Go find out what the order was if you want. You can see the updates on Patreon.

But it's been a long journey. That's where we are. So when we're back out of Hot D season three, we will be finishing up Tyrion over the following year. And then who knows where we will set sales. The winds of winter. The winds of winter will be coming out as soon as we finish. So you want to be subscribed so you can be the first ones to know about the winds of winter. It might.

I mean, look under your chair. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to spoil everything because we can. And we don't like have a set time for when we're going to be doing that spoiling. It's just always. So adapt that mentality. I'm excited. And I'm actually really excited because we got a bunch of comments on Spotify.

Yeah. And I've kind of been saving them up. They bring me joy. I have been given joy today from these comments. So we're going to start episode by episode. And we're actually going to start with Hirstery. We had a handful of comments on her story, Queens Landing, season three, episode two. Eliana, pop us off.

Yeah, our friend Elizabeth told us, Immaculate vibes, ladies. I love you both so much. Thank you. So real. We love you too. Thanks, Elizabeth. Foxy Buttercup, amazing name, said, surprised you guys didn't talk about the queen taking the crown when she walked up the stairs to the throne.

There were bloody footprints. It reminds me when Joffrey was born. she was made to go to Allison with the bloody footprints and stairs. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think it was, it's really good. Those are really good parallel. You could totally feel the, yeah, like the ghosts of that era are haunting the castle now, like when she stared at her father's bed and was talking about, there are happy ghosts too. I felt like you could feel that pain, too. Yeah, I'm glad that this comment was left. Um, please do not be surprised that we did not talk about it. I just didn't remember.

We don't talk about everything, too. I can't. It's impossible. That's what all of you are for. That's why I have to leave comments. If you leave the comments, then it will be out in the other and we will all collectively improve. Well, we've been influenced by Foxy Buttercup today. Influenced. All right. Well, here's something that we would like to influence all of you to do. Go check out our friend, Pim Mangtachawa, who left this comment, yay, two exclamation points, magenta heart, magenta heart, and two dragons emojis. And Pim joined us to discuss quite

recently actually because this was our like penultimate POV, the Denieres chapter, the taking of Astopor. And Pim has a book that came out earlier this year. I dreamed of you. and you should definitely go check it out. Yeah, sat in Edinburgh with two students, and they both grew up in Bangkok, but then, you know, they're very opposite characters. So it has some very, wow, wait, a book called I Dream that you have two characters who are opposites, but super similar. Okay, Pim.

I see you, Pim, I feel it too. I do think about it all the time. I'm like, okay, okay, I see you. Pim, but also, yeah, also check out Pim's first book as well. The Moon represents my heart. That one was really good. Definitely like... Have you ever cried?

Yeah, I was like gut punch for me. I think like you and I were texting each other, like, oh my God, I'm crying. And you know that that's how you know that Chloe and I love it if we're crying. It's like sex. It's like sex for us as people together. So, yeah. We cried. So yeah, you should check out both of those books.

Thanks, Pim. Okay, this one's fun. AlphaCatty dash it commented and said, as a certified Italian, I am glad to say it would be Alicent El Tadore. Altadore. So you guys, this is a reference to... Alicini. Alicini, the little butterfly illustration that we talked about two episodes ago.

What a time. I'm enjoying my... Alicini. Thank you. next up yeah so this is for episode 3 Rainierre Triumphant

which was an aptly named episode as we discussed last week as Eliana has admitted loudly publicly for anyone to hear multiple times okay she's doing it again right now so cranal

C Nald Cresnald Csux C. C. Rennald's Lc S absolutely not No, no, it's Creight Nalda-6. Okay. Says, Lincoln Parks, Heavy as the Crown, is the perfect song for this episode.

Thanks for the amazing content, week in and week out, smiley face emoji. And I love that, Kala. Oh, I love that. Okay, first of all, one of my, I mean, granted, like, I guess it's not, like, as deep of a cut, as heavy as the crown. But as Chloe knows, one of my go-to karaoke songs is in the end by Lincoln Park. Half heard it, can't confirm. Also crawling, but then crawling has to be like towards the end because otherwise like the voice is shot for the rest of the night.

No, I feel this. I absolutely feel this. Recently I did some karaoke, but I didn't go in public. We just stayed at my friend's house and did it at her house instead with a hairbrush. And I can tell you those are good songs to do. It is. It is. That's right. I saw some of your images, some of your...

We were going to go out to the bar, to the actual, like, karaoke bar. And we were like, what if we stayed and not at the bar and we drank wine at home and watch, like, golden girls and sang into a hairbrush? And you know what? That did the same job. Same job. Yeah. And, of course, like, that is, like, a reference. And we have heard...

Rainier actually makes a reference to this line. She doesn't know it, but she is making a reference to this line a little. in this very episode of Shakespeare's and Henry IV, Uneasy Lies the Head, that wears a crown. So. Isn't that when Roneira's like, and dynasties can fall, looks into the camera.

And that, and also she was like, it was during the same time that she was like, look at Father's Warhammer set. What does it mean? We got a comment from Casserol Hot Dish, which, like, elite naming. That's such a good name. What's your favorite casserole hot dish, Aliana?

Okay, I remember one time discussing with my friend, who's also Filipino, we were like, what is a casserole? We were trying to understand white foods. What is casserole? And let me think about it. Like, I do, I like many casseroles, but also sometimes you'll see casserole on, like, some Chinese menus, and they mean a different thing. I do love, like, is lasagna casserole?

I also love, is chicken pot pie? a casserole is... Kind of, yeah. I love... I only experienced this in adulthood. The green bean thing that you have at Thanksgiving. We might have actually discussed this.

We might have actually discussed this on previous episode, so I love that. How about you? What is your favorite casserole? I do make a mean green bean casserole. I think what I like about casseroles is like you can do basically vegetable plus starch plus soup plus like protein and bake it all together.

and like add cheese and bake it up and like you have like a casserole you know like so i like a broccoli casserole with like cheese and ham or like um egg casserole is great like doing like some sort of like cooked egg kind of thing is that like the thing that you usually make for mass breakfast the egg casserole or is that different yeah pretty much that's pretty much an egg casserole That's a breakfast casserole. Yeah. For those listening at home, I do like a hash brown layer and then like scrambled egg top with a bunch of good mix-ins and cheese and you cut it out and there you have a square of casserole. Yeah.

Yeah. This is a food podcast. Yeah, this is a food podcast. We haven't even gotten to this person's comment. I'm supposed to be Cacheal Hotdish. Well, we have an important discussion topic. I'm learning what casseroles are. I think you said this.

They said, we moved on too quickly from the serving conciliator. I did. I just based this to you. Chloe, and you're like, oh, we have a bunch of comments, that's right. And I was like, yeah. So I don't really know what else to say about this other than like that's so true. We might have moved on too fast from it. And we can just keep it going, I guess, somehow the rest of the season.

I mean, we're holding space. We are. We're holding space for the serving conciliators. She was serving conciliator. Not so much this episode, but we'll get into that. Hey, if you want your comments to be featured or your emails or your tweets of note, find us on social media or on your favorite platform. These were comments from Spotify.

I love checking them. It's like getting a great backlog of amazing comment trove, like treasure trove. We'll look at them on Podbean on Spotify. Our emails at Girls Gone Canon at gmail.com, our Patreon at the same Girls Gone Canon lookup. Come find us. Leave us little notes. I love to read a little note. Yeah, and learn about casseroles. Yeah. Tell me your favorite casserole. Wait, yes. Tell us your favorite casseroles.

Because I actually, I don't think I've ever heard of what you're talking about, this like broccoli ham casserole in my head. I'm like, I've literally never heard of this. So educate me about casseroles, dear friends. Uh, all right. As before, we're going to jump into locations. Yeah. Talk about stuff at free will, free reign. We might get somewhere, we might get nowhere, and you guys are along for the ride, so we thank you all for that. Welcome back.

Let's talk about the veil of Aaron Eliana. Speaking of serving conciliator. Oh, my God, she was, and also the veil was served. Yeah. Oh my God. The Weirwood chair. I forgot of what vibes. I forgot about how fucking vibes the veil of Erin is.

I was like, have I just never really beheld the eerie until this moment? Oh, I've known. I was waiting for someone to do it right. And you know what? They did it right. That shot, did you see the shot with like the moon over top of her? I'll have you like rewatch I guess yeah

you'll have to rewatch yeah it's zoomed out and she has the moon it's like a tiny is it a crescent it's got to be a crescent moon yeah for the very tiny which I love because it's the waxing phase right or the waning like one of the two we don't know which one if it's waxing or waning

at the time but it's great to just think of the back and forth for house Aaron of like what does it represent yeah they're influenced does wax and wane. I never thought about it like that too. The sickle moon, the sickle moon. Yeah, it was like just serving fucking cunt as you actually zoomed out for the whole wide view and you saw that moon above her, her and her dogs, her designer dogs. Yes. They kept the moon door

on the ground, which I think that's a good continuity. I actually like it. I got, maybe it's because like I did see the first season before I read the books. I do like it in the floor. And also like, as they talked about in, I don't know, the hut that dragons made. The hut. What? They, the hunt that dragons made, that they were, you know, very much trying to channel some of those iconic moments from Game of Throats with this moon door. It's great. We actually got the scene.

I wasn't planning for us two in my head. Yeah. Right? Like, I had divorced myself from the idea of it at this point. Like, I'm like, okay, maybe we won't get much more Jane. So they surprised me with that. And I love that she literally is like, I would rather pay 10,000 gold dragons to get rid of Damon than suffer him any longer. Because I think that's actually a really common feeling about Damon.

He's like not amazing at it, but he like gets the job done well enough. Like he does here, I guess. But a lot of men are like that. It's really fun watching him politic, you know? Like they opened last episode with him and the High Tower Army. And then here he is in the veil. kind of. It's just funny. I like the way he delivers it. He has never been more Matt Smith than he has in this episode and last episode.

That's true. That's true. There's some flamboyant hand motion this episode and last episode that I was like, that's Matt Smith, aka Doctor Who. That's not Damon Dargarian. But you know what? Happy to have him as it because no one else would put this emotion in. There was a line that stood out to me talking about the dragons and having protection of dragons would Jane and her saying, Renira took that away too about Joffrey and his dragon. So we got our first little update that Joffrey did leave the veil already to go back to King's Landing. So someone, like, I guess did their job there. And also I will say like it, I do think like,

maybe they will give us a little bit of egg in the third's reign, considering how much they're giving Jane Aaron. And like granted, you know, she does have to like, and troops and whatnot, but like, maybe they will give us just a little bit if she's getting so much screen time. I think they have to at least end on Hour of the Wolf. I really do, because why would you introduce Kregan and then, yeah, cut his part because of filming schedule, but like, bringing him back. I mean, Stark is a house favorite.

It's such a good favorite that we haven't named Roddy the ruin yet. We just know that he's some guy at the head of the Stark Army, so no one knows what he is. If you're a philippi casual right now, you're like, that's the house start guy. He's not. But you're thinking he is. Yeah. He's pledged to them. So I can see.

Yeah. You thinking that. I mean, they're all like there. I mean, the lads and like the Riverlanders and the north. Yeah. They're all being involved. I think they are building in the background. I think we're going to get some of it.

You know what's waxing and waiting every single week, whether or not we believe that they're going to show us that. hour the wolf or not, like where we think that the series is going to end. I think of our little mini friend group, like the not a canon group at least, like I'm the most open-minded to how far they might go. Some might say open-minded is a bad word. Others might call it delusional. So that's another good word to use about me. But I think I'm open-mindedly delusional about what could happen. I think that there could be a little time skip age jump, Egan 3. We see him like 14.

Oh, that's way more delusional than me. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, I'm delulu. Like, we can see Agan grow up a little bit. Yeah. I mean, he's only four or five right now. How do you have an effective ending? And like, if you remove Agan and Viserif's and Joffreys to all the other kids are fucking dead, like you can't tell just an effective ending with Reneera and

Allison alone. but I fear that could be an avenue. But I believe that Ryan Condal wants to give me the Lysine Spring. You're trying to, I see that you are trying to Crusader Kings Observe Mode, the end of the last season of House of the Dragon. I'm so proud of you. Wow. For everyone sitting at home. Chloe told me earlier, but right before this episode.

Wow. You tell them Chloe because I can't explain it. No, it's just Observe Mode in Crusader King. I'm like you can literally back out and be an observed mode and like you don't have to play as anyone and you can just let time go by and like Brand Stark style like your eyes roll up and you're like I'm the three-eyed raven and I can see everything that happens in this country. Yeah. And then you can hop in wherever you want eventually when shit's been a little, you know, mixed up, a little stirred, a little shaken. Yeah. That's what she thinks is going to happen at the end of the fourth season.

I think season four will end. with season five being announced so we can do the lies in spring. Okay, I'm here for it. Delusional. I'm delusional. I'm delusional. Is what I am. No, I think it's going to end and we're going to have like one episode of wrap up and it's not going to be enough and I'm going to be mad.

But we don't have to worry about that till then. Because, I mean, he could still give me the lie scene. So Raina is getting really good at blackmailing people. Yeah. Have you noticed? Good for her. Oh, that's true. Yeah. I mean, we'll talk about this seriously here. Like, I do think it was some good emotional acting. I think they're amazing.

Phoebe Campbell's amazing. I love their acting. I love their Valerian. I thought that moment where Matt Smith and Phoebe Campbell, like, turned around to hush their drag. And he'd be like, stop it. Like, don't fight. They were like, Daur and whatever the fuck. The Carrie.

Yeah, like, so cute, adorable. Like, you know, very cute. I would have liked more earlier, but I'm glad they addressed like the elephant in the room of, you've never looked at me in my life, Dad. I think that was good. It's fine. How I felt overall was that there were some beautiful shots in the scene. And the plot's fine.

It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. I do, as you said, like, I think like they did some great emotional work here, like, both Phoebe and. Matt, and I think like the delivery of it, the, and like the emotional beats it was supposed to hit, like, very well landed and placed. There's a lot of food for thought here that we'll get into in a moment. But I do, like, understand and like that there is a lot of criticism, and I do, like, I do agree with some of it of like, hmm, was this really fair to both, like, Raina and Nettles' storylines? I mean, not that, like, fairness of the storylines, like, matters, but, you know,

like, I don't know, it's kind of, yeah. that I actually think it makes a lot of logical sense. It doesn't mean I like it, but it does make a lot of logical sense at this point for the amount of time they have to tell the story. It is very strange that doing this goes against so many things about Raina that are written in the book, right? Which it wouldn't be the first accidental mistaken twin scenario in fire and blood, to be fair. Ironically, it's not, you know, I'm not saying that makes it. It's not, that's not, that's not what George was doing. You have Raina with all her hair burnt off. You have Raina getting the season five Sonsa treatment where, you know, it's not enough for you to actually just be a lady in the

veil politicking and learning about these moments and things and leverage. In a way, it is a very, actually a very misogynistic choice in writing in some aspects that it would be cooler to give her a dragon because she's never been allowed to have one. I see all the things. I mean, and this will probably be the last time I talk about it in that full manner, because I actually thought there were a couple good moments. I think it needed more buildup for her and Damon's relationship prior. I don't, it feels, there are a couple bandages in this episode, right? I mean, we're covering their cinema sins.

Nettles, Darren. Yeah. And honestly, one of these worked better than the other. But they're both fine. I can deal with them, whether that's age, drugs. I don't know, but I can deal with it. Yeah. I don't know what we mean by drugs, but agreed.

We would never do them. No. But yeah, like, as you said, it would have been better with a little bit more, I guess, as you said, like, establishment of how fraught this relationship is between, like, Raina and Damon. And I know, like, Raina's talked about it in the past, right? But, like, seeing it more, because, like, that one, it does not. need a little more establishment. Like, I know some people are like, it's crazy that, like, Rainier has never spoken to Agen the second.

And that works for me, actually. Like, for me, that's part of the point. Like, that's an intentional artistic choice. This one feels like an oversight. Um, and I will say, like, it's shot very well, right? Like, Raina emerging from the cave with the dragon fire behind her, like, amazing. Like, very, very well done. Yeah.

Like, ominous. And then also, I will say some of the parts, like, I feel like we made a huge jump, though, of like, oh, so she's, like, taught sheepstealer some words since the last time. Like, we hung out. Like, why does sheepstealers suddenly understand Valerian now? Like, were we doing, like, dragon school, like, while out here in the veil? I don't know.

Yeah. I do feel kind of, like, we're getting, and, you know, I was talking to my roommate about this, too. Like, like we said last time, the Peter Baylish travel jumping. And people, and dragons explain some of that, but, like, people are all the sudden there. and then you just follow, like, yes, I'm not stupid. I can put a story together, but there are a few things that they could maybe lace together a little better. Raina's entire thing being some of it, like, especially because, like, season two, you consider she had a handful of scenes with Sheep Steeler, and I just don't feel like they progressed her.

I feel like where she is right now. The three, two to three scenes, you see her trying to tame Sheep Steeler, and then somehow she's going to the golet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. We need one more in between here. In regards to those emotional beats that I do like and the questions that are raised, I do like Raina bringing up how she felt really lost as a Targaryen by not having a dragon. And it really makes you think about like what does it mean to be a Targaryen without a dragon

since so many of the other series that we explore, right? For example, An Night of the Seven Kingdoms, all the other people in like a Song of Ice and Fire, besides De Neres who all don't have dragons but are also Targaryens, such as like, you know, Aymn, etc. What, like, how that really impacts them, not to mention that, like, you know, we do see a lot of the other histories through, like, the World of Ice and Fire, et cetera, exploring that.

And it also really makes you think about, like, why everyone is so mean to Aymond when he didn't, like, have a dragon yet up until he claimed Vagar or even, like, how everyone would bully Magor, you know, who was definitely like a really good guy, up until he claimed Belerian or even like how area Targaryen felt up until the claiming of Belerian. And then it also even makes you think about like Viseries, right? Veseris claimed Belerian and then Balearine was like, all right, peace out. I'm dying now.

Yeah. Damon highlighted this last episode, right? Yeah. Like this was a legitimate plot point for us to think about. I think the control and the power of the dragons and the myth of having the control and power. Like, I'm really blown away, especially this episode and last episode of how Blase Reneiro's being about her reign being hooked on these dragon seeds, right? When, like, there's almost an attitude of, I'm the powerful one, you only have the dragon because of me. And it's like, actually, if Ulf had just snuck into the dragon pit, maybe he could have.

tamed and bonded with silverwing and maybe Hugh was always meant to be with Vermethor because Vermethor chose Hugh. Have you considered Reneura has nothing to do with it? And they don't actually know what it has to do with it. They have no clue. And that's the secret to their power. Agreed. Or like with Adam, right? She's, and I do think like that's something you're, exploring. That's true. Because like she's been very adamant about being like, I didn't mean that. That could be a pun, though. Adamant. Anyways, I Ha! She's been so, like, and then Adam showed up as a dragon rider, and it was a sign from the gods.

And I'm like, was it? What did that mean, Ben? Literally nothing. Tell us. Tell us what it meant. It means that we love Adam Valerian. No, that's true. Or sorry, Adam of Hull at the moment.

Yeah, be legal. be illegal. I will say another thing that I thought was kind of interesting is Raina saying that she's felt alone her entire life, right? By virtue of not having a dragon and that stood out to me because it really subverts this idea of like the narrative we're told about what it means to be a twin in general but also because people tell me, I don't know, like I know that there are some twins who don't get along but like the trope is that they do and like it's very much. much calling into question, right, the narrative of like Jamie and Circe and them feeling very tied and soulbound, um, as opposed to Raina and Bella. But it does make me think like,

wait, what's going to happen to like the cattle show? Like, what's going to happen? Like, they're like, I do love Raina and Bella's relationship after the war. So what's happening? Well, if you stick with me and five seasons of House of the Dragon, you can get the Lysine Spring, as well as earlier on the cattle show. I do kind of feel like, I mean, like we are getting moon of the three kings, and I feel like we have another person in Kings Landing that can be propped up as a seed of the dragon because we don't know what's happened to him is fake Daron. Oh, yeah.

I do. That was something I was like trying to explain without like explaining too much. to my focus group, because they were like, why wouldn't she just make them Valerians? And I tried to explain the thing you were talking about last episode, right? Of like, now what, what everybody gets to be like a Valerian-Slarian-Tarion now? And, like, what that really means for when it comes to, like, the stability of the realm. I'm not saying that, like, stability should rest on monarchy.

But, you know, like, everything gets really chaotic and, like, all those questions of identity and all this stuff that we've been talking about for eight years. It's a slippery slope, the question of. succession. So true. Well, speaking of the question, or I don't know, that didn't work, that was a, damn, that was some Eliana fucking shit I just did. Well, let's go over to Tumbleton, which I think was a huge highlight of the episode, Tumbledon, season three, episode four, Tumbledon. Yeah, I was like, was it a highlight? I don't know. What do you think? Tread lightly here. Those are the words.

of Tumbledon. I thought that was a good subsection title for us. I like the kind of dialogue going on from Reneer at the council later about Tumbledon where she says, why sees Tumbledit? It's no stronghold. It's a market town. Its lord is meek. Its walls are poorly defended. High Tower may as well paint a rondel on his chest. Why does he mean to somehow win their support? he dares me to rain fire down on a seat that raised my banner, and the realm would name me Magor returned. Well, close. Maygore mentioned, bur, bra, bra, bar, they'd rise up against me, and the same gods who

delivered me to the throne would rightly cast me down. That dialogue is perfect to explain this, right? When we open on Tumbledin, yes, the nobles that she feasted are, you know, bad for hoarding, but a lot of them are kind of like these nobles in Tumbledton. It's like a western, this scene, or several of the scenes, this location. I really loved that. I loved what the House of the Dragon Built was saying about their costuming, about how they chose like kind of pastels and neutrals and that yellow kind of palette

and brown palette. It does make me think of a Western, like, Ormond's here, and he's the new sheriff in town, and he's pretty fucked up. Yeah, I like that. I didn't really, like, think of it like that, but it is, it does have that vibe to it as well as, like, I don't know, it does make you think, like, it would be cool. It would be cool for them to give us more information on, like, Magor and to explore Magor, you know, with, uh, as, since it's being referenced here. And I don't know, there are a couple of other, like, Give me Sons of the Dragon Yeah, I think it could be really interesting And then we would also get some Rana Other Rana content

It's so confusing None of you know which Rana I'm talking about None of you know which Dera I'm talking about anymore Whenever I talk about things In this series I understand you, Regina Regina

That is I guess kind of what we're watching too In some ways but not exactly Ranira Run Nira around near out. Wait, didn't we sing that? Like a few during Unleashed the day? Probably. I think we did. It wouldn't surprise me. I want to call this out just because Chloe, like,

text me, like, every few days. Lord Blood Raven, is this true? And so Ormond, High Tower going, is this true? And I was like, does he know? Does he know what Chloe's, like, saying to me all the time? I whispered Lord Blood Raven after he said it on the couch. So I want to call that out. I do also really want to call out, like, I really just love John Roxton's stupid hair as bowlcuts. It brings me so much joy every time.

I also want to shout out our friends at Got Thrones podcast, who were talking about how, like, Lord Humperdink thinks he's Ormond High Tower, but also John Roxton is giving Rougan or whatever. I forgot his name, also in Princess Bride. Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. It's very funny. Check them out. Yeah. Shit. Yeah, Alex and Johnny are the best.

I went into this entire subplot with very low expectations. First of all, I don't care about this Darren Targaryen. I really never have. I'm going to come clean on this podcast to you all. It's just like another. So it's actually kind of meta and funny in a way

because also that's the way the showrunners have treated Darren Targaryen, which is like another question mark. They are in good fun. They are making fun of themselves in this introduction, so I really respect that. I feel like they've humbled themselves a little bit in this introduction.

They're very much playing with it. The hair, the Darren, the, oh, look, gotcha. He's not the same Darren. Again, I went into this very low expectations. I literally don't care what happens. and now I think I love Daron Targaryen and Tessarian and I would fight anyone if anything happened to them which feels like a problem for me since they will die

not of fun either. They will not die of fun. No. I really didn't know how they were going to play his personality. I was curious how they were going to build him up if he was going to be, you know, with Allison and Gwain preceding and saying like, you know, He's a good kid.

He's a good boy. He's stellar. In my head, I was kind of nervous that he was going to be evil, right, considering who he's with. That's true. I'm prejudiced against Ormond High Tower. And it turns out I'm right about that. But he wasn't bad.

He's actually still a good kid. And his personality and the mannerisms and the way they introduced him, I actually felt, was really well done. I thought it was a very rich level of introduction for his character. You can tell from the very start that he's sensitive and a friend. of Ormond and like very much you can tell that he senses the emotions of those around him and accounts for Orman's emotional mood changes which are severe clearly so you see him like prep for those mood swings like which to me says that for years he has put up with pretty much

grooming and abuse from this guy Allison thought she was doing the right thing by sending her youngest sweetest son to Old Town home where she's like maybe this could save him maybe I can have one thing that's just for me, but she kind of forgot that Old Town is the manufacturing facility for grooming children to seek the crown. So that was pretty sad for me because I'm like, oh, you never stood a chance, you stupid boy. Of course Ormond wants you to be king. Why did you think he acted like he loved you for so long? You know, she says that she wanted one child to be a high tower, and then fortunately that is what it means to be a high tower. Yeah.

Can I? Like as you said, like the the manufacturing place of like go do this, go be very emotionally abused and like groomed for all this stuff because that's what happened to her. But I will say like first of all, Ormond, like as like when Darren was like

step back. Just because it's like in my mind as people have A. been talking about episode three of the season being Veep. Ormond's like little not little but Ormond's tantrum, it was giving Selena Meyer going the level of incompetence in this office is staggering or like all the

Selena Meyer like yeah the montages of just like like throwing shit around it was that no that's real that's absolutely real um he is definitely a highlight right like he's very fun for a villain yeah uh I actually really like the pacing of like letting Aem and melt to the back which we'll talk about, but like, Ormond take the front. Very interested to see the next episodes. Truly, Daron is his mother's son with all those candles lit up in Tumbleton at the table, right? I was like, oh, innocence. That's, you know, made in the image of the mother, literally. And then, of course, you have that great moment of Tessarian, like, knocking all the candles over. I'm like, could you be more clear what that's supposed to mean, right? Faith versus drag.

It's a growing debate in this nation right now. We'll see what it means going forward, but I think that the dragon eats the faith. Probably, maybe you might think, unless, you know, there were some pitfalls in how it all goes. And the dragon eats the queen instead. Oops, Zainey. I'm at the dragon pit. Um, the storming. Stop it.

You know I don't like that. She's like, I know that hurts my feelings. I pretend not to see it. Yeah, as you said, like very much his mother's son, because of, as we've been discussing, it turns out she's just continued that cycle of like, let's fuck up this kid, right? Let's fuck up this poor sweet child. Make him pliable for all the elders to be upon. and it feels like there's no winning, right?

Either you get like the fucking monsters that were raised in Kings Landing or you get the high towers, right? Like what does it mean to be a Targaryen? And it's interesting also she has that discussion, I guess, with Rainira. Reindeer's like, did it hurt you to send your kid away? Because she just sent two of her little sons away. But also she kept, for the most part, she kept her sons close. And honestly, those were some pretty good kids.

I mean, like, yeah, they're both dead, but, like, those kids also had brown hair and were good kids. Maybe that's the thing. Like, when you have blonde hair, like, is this anti-bloncho? I don't know. Yeah. Oh, George lets you do anything. George lets you do anything when you have blonde hair. Brunette hair dead.

Yeah, but. Oh, that's so true. Rainies. But at least everyone thinks of you really fondly, which, you know, they should. Absolutely. Legacy. Legacy. Legacy.

Legacy. toss our I toss my hair It's not blonde Surprise I will say like This scene with the candles I like that you called out that he's like his mother They all are in some ways not all of them

But I like you know Egan Fucks with his fingernails the way that Allison does And we got that close up of his nails earlier Anyways back to the candle scene Leading up to it and like the execution of that man Very uncomfortable and I believe it is intentionally so, shocker. But like, the way that Orman goes to touch Darren's cheek and the sept,

I was like, what's going on here? Has Orman been like inappropriate with his nephew? And they're like, this will be our little secret kind of way. And I don't know if that's the case or not. I think I just might be thinking like, hmm, Catholicism, right? And it might not be. They were into the sect. What do you want me to say?

but it might not have been what was going on there, but I do think it was meant to give us some of those undertones because the way that, like, Ormond is projecting his desire for Darren to kill, right? The way that young boys are forced into performing violence, into doing acts of violence, because that's what it means to do masculinity, to step into adult roles,

that is a deep violation. that is very much like also also a corruption, right? Like it is the forcing of adulthood. It is a soul and innocence in the way that like a more like sexual act would be. And I think that they are intentionally drawing those parallels. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's grooming. It's absolutely grooming.

It's the language of abuse, the way he rewards him for doing certain things. It's a very twisted effort on kill the boy and let the man be born, right? But only the man that he's allowing to be born. And there's also that great balance of like, you know, he hates the Targaryens, but he needs the power of the Targaryens in order to defeat the Targaryens, the very thing that you can't resist about your nephew. And I mean, it's not the first uncle we've seen grooming their charge. Which one do you mean?

Because there can be like a man. Oh, Damon. Yes. Yeah, I was also thinking, I was also thinking of like, you know, that abuse, the withholding, et cetera that you're talking about. I mean, Allison says, I've been told that Ormond's been very fatherly to Darren. And I'm like, I guess that is like how her father treated her in some ways too. Yeah. Go seduce the king, 15 year old girl.

You're not fucking wrong. So that is fatherly for the high towers, I guess. It's just fucked up. You know, we got that line from Ormond where he's reading the owl, the bird, the raven, whatever it is that's been sent. He's reading the fucking scroll that's been sent via raven. And he reminds us about the Barathians, which I was like, you know what? That's great. Because I was wondering, like, in the book you don't hear much, right, about whatever's happening with Boros and shit.

Like, after Amand, it's, like, kind of quiet on that front. So, you know, don't hear much till the cattle show on them. So it was kind of nice just to hear about them for continuity. I was kind of impressed with that. Yeah. The Barothians. I don't know. Yeah.

They could have played it up a little more, them in Rainies. But they were probably just like, fuck. Rainis. God, I hate that so much. I know. I hate Dinos. I still call her as Rainies. All right.

We get Vermethore flying overhead. had right after Hugh had asked if he could go take the watch because of his wife. And, man, that entire bit with Tumbledin is really stressful. And it's a very intense couple of scenes, but it's great that we get to see this brought to life. I think we often had, you know, like the aria plot comes to mind a lot in this episode. I think there's a lot of like Heron Hall and other things on the road that really come to mind here. throughout here, throughout later with the Agen Lerries. Yeah.

But, you know, when I see Hugh swooping overhead after his wife was just like assaulted by the guard and after her, you know, mother-in-law's arm or sister-in-law, whoever it is, after her arm is fucking broken and, you know, they're in the square and the embarrassing thing, like, Hugh flies overhead and the big theme in this episode that I am thinking of and even Reneera experiences it is, if you can't save this. the people you love, is that power? Or is that feeling powerless, right? Like, you can have a dragon.

You can be mounted on one of the biggest dragons of all of the dragons in the world, and there's only a select handful, and you still can't do anything to stop your wife from being assaulted. You can't get a home to live in. You can't save your dead fucking daughter from not having enough food to get stronger and get well from. What's the point? That's, I mean, I think that is the, question, right? What is the point? Look upon...

Yeah, it's like Jane says in the book and in the last season, right? Like, I mislike feeling powerless. Isn't that what's driving and motivating most of these people? I think that's one of the things that will motivate you, and I can't wait to see that. Yeah, and like, will it be too late, right? Very much, like, look upon your call and see what life is worth when all the rest is gone. Very much the question that's happening here, and like, he's so far removed, he can't even know. I did like, I was kind of being stupid a little last night when I watched it. What? Okay, so I was like, I said, hmm, she should tell them like, her husband's one of the

dragonriders and the people around me pointed out, no, she should definitely not tell them that. And I was like, that's true. You're right. She should not tell them that her husband is one of the enemy dragonriders. So true. And I do think like House of the Dragon. is, I think, like, the way that they're approaching the concept of, like, gender-based violence

and war and conflict, here with this war does a pretty good job, in my opinion, of depicting it without sensationalizing it the way that Game of Thrones did. And I'm open to disagreement. I'm open to disagreement, because, you know, I understand that people might still feel it's gratuitous, but I think, like, as we've talked often during our POV read-through, gender-based violence is, you used as a weapon of war. That is, it is unfortunately very much hand in hand what happens during conflict, right? People use it as a tool of genocide, things like that, right? And we have it brought up by Gwynne being like, Kristen, like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, we need to have them stop raping. And Kristen's like, I'm just really sad, bro. And we're like, what are you doing?

And we see that happen, like echoed again here in Tumbleton, right? The fact that it's happening more than once during the beginning of this season as the war is escalating is telling us, hey, yeah, Rainira, on the surface, it seems like we are trying to do something about like equality for women, right, because she gets the throne. But we see the way that her rain is actually shaking out. You know, she's not really bringing equality when it comes to like acknowledging bastards, not that, you know, making someone like a noble via like blood is necessarily equality, whatever, right? We're going to see her later on, refuse to, like, grant inheritance to other, like,

noble ladies, which, again, is that whatever. But, like, this war, while, yes, she is the heir, it is on the ground, leading to an increase and violence against women. That's not very gender equality, right? Like, that's what happens, and it's not her soldiers necessarily doing it, but we do get a bit of a warning there in the way that like the gold cloaks like inquisition or whatever mirrors the occupation of the high tower forces in Tumbleton to be like well how is this really all gonna play not so different not that different and we do see that in the popularized books

of song of ice and fire series by george pretty often too um yeah what a leanna's trying to say is not very girl boss of her. It's not. It's not very, well, it's very girl boss in practice, just not the girl boss in paper, as we've all learned from the 2010s of what it means. On ironically, and ironically. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely something there that the two armies committing violence against people, very similar. And, you know, Rainier are trying to figure out how to feed these people when it turns out she has no money, no food. Except for her husband going and fucking exploiting Jane Aaron to get another week of food out of

someone, you know? Yeah, well, you know what? The veil, sometimes the veil just does have, like, stocks of food is what I've learned from a saga of ice and fire and little finger. Not when there's dragon around. No, that's true. Can't just all be dragging our feet. And they just killed one of the best sheep heard?

Oh my god, no That guy had goats Was he really like a shepherd? I don't know He had goats Well it's certainly not going to be the shepherd Because he doesn't even have a head on his shoulders now That's true

I feel like was that kind of a callback as well To like the way that it was like sheep people As well in shepherds that drogan Was like I'm going to eat this little girl Yeah Absolutely that and I mean The ease with which Damon just like kills him and flings his head on the, like he's nothing.

Like, we'll talk about it. That to me was like, oh, God, that speaks volumes about who these people are. Speaks volumes. I will say like, you know, a couple of like small, fun facts here now of just like, the cabin made by dragons talked about how this Tumbleton was inspired by Fulius in a laser architecture. And what it actually made me think of when, when I saw it, it made you think of the architecture of, like, walking through Spinalonga

off of Crete, which was once upon a time, like a military fortress, but I learned a lot about how it used to be a leper colony. I was like, hmm, yeah, it's giving leper colony here in Dumbledon. A little bit. That's my insight. Also, yeah, we were talking about the Daron Potline, and I do want to, and like, you know, it wasn't like the most elegantly introduced as we've discussed and I want to ask everyone did the show explain Allison's like rationale around Darren poorly or is my focus group a little stupid and they're never going to listen to this episode so I'm going to just say it about these people

I love. Real question, I'm putting to all of you, because she said, you know, she bore Viserie's three Targaryens. She gave him three Targaryens, but she wanted her last child to be a high tower and because of his hair color. And so, my focus group took that to mean, oh, is Darren a bastard that she had with Kristen Cole and sent away? And I was like, no, I think she meant it like, like on a metaphorical, you know, like level, a personal level. I think it can be two things. Like, are they stupid? Hmm.

Jury's out for me. And you can tell them both I said that. Okay. You can tell them both I said that. But I completely understand where they're coming from because that is my question, too. Like, there's a lot about this show. that if you haven't read Fire and Blood 14 times, which I haven't.

And a Song of Ice and Fire 47 times. Like, will you get it? You know what I mean? Like, will you get it? Yeah. And I also, like, halt and say, I was just talking to someone recently

where I was trying to explain, like, if you like a song of Ice and Fire, there's a non-zero chance you're not normal about it. You know what I mean? Like, it's not something that attracts fair weather. vague fans, unless it's people that have read part of a Game of Thrones and want to brag about it on Twitter with a blue check. Like, it's the kind of thing that attracts very hardcore, dedicated fans with passion and opinions. What do you mean?

I think we're like, we're like the most normal people I've ever met in regards to anything of anything. Are we not, do we not give like the impression of being very normal to all of you? Dear listeners, don't answer that. Please do not objectively answer that. I don't want to read that. I don't want to read that. Yeah.

No, I see what you're saying. I'm just saying. And also like, passionate fans. Even like you're saying, if you haven't read it like 14 times, like I was talking about this with our friend Gray and I was like,

by virtue of like when the princess and the queen came out, when the rogue prince came out, and like you and I covering this multiple times, A for each season, B for our own like Patreon series about like the Dance of the Dragons. See for like a bunch of other stuff. I have read like this entire segment of like a fire and blood probably at least six if not seven or more times.

And I still don't fucking remember stuff. Like I haven't internalized some of it because I think part of it is partially like how it is portrayed like it's not necessarily narrative style. you have to kind of do it in a more factual, like, memorization style. But I'm like, I don't know. And I've read this at least six or seven times. Just, and I know, like, that's not, like, a very cool thing for me to say, being on this podcast and, like, telling you all my opinions.

But, like, that's just the truth. Yeah, I mean, I know everything, so I don't have that issue. Yeah, I don't have to know it. No, I'm just kidding. That's not true. I don't have to. No, but I get things wrong and then I call Eliana and I'm like, please, will you put in the description I got one fact wrong about the 15th son

of the Barathean in the era of whatever and it's not real but I do that to you too. That's the point. We needed two heads. The dragon must have two heads. Three. It could still happen. I get it

about Allison and the Suns because I also was trepidatiously waiting for her to be like that's why this one was mine and you know and then heard reveal like oh he has brought auburn hair imagine i made fun of you for all those years bob-pub i was like waiting for something cheesy to happen like that i was like on the edge of my seat like please don't do this and they didn't thank god um and it does make me wonder like so ormond

high tower master cosmetologist of the reach maybe what maybe like is he dying deron's hair I'm curious if he is. Wouldn't surprise me. Maybe we'll see it wash out. Or he's just going to be ginger and not say anything. But it's surprising to me that they don't reach into those rumors at all for him. Ha, ha, ha, ha. But it's surprising to me they don't reach into that because that's like very easy to dabble.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised with the way that they're portraying Ormond if he is, as you said, a master cosmetologist. He really might be. Like, he's into perfume, so. Other people who seem into potions and perfumes, let's talk about the Riverlands in Heraldine Hall. Yes, not a ton to go into here, but just enough.

Oh, Alice, I loved her drip this episode. She went in Simon's closet and said, how can I dress like Amon's mommy? But give it strong, give it that purple, velvety, touch. So she looks like Allison's silhouette, but in purple, like for her, for how strong. Good for her. She seems to be protecting Amand, maybe, from like, you know, the weight of the crown or whatever. He must be healing. He was in pretty bad shape after Simon's one useful son stabbed him before dying. Or is she not protecting him? Or is she like, I will drug you in this cave until you give me this castle. out. Either way could be sexy. I don't know.

I'm, I'm, either way could, I would prefer if it were the latter. As you've all heard me talk about Katlin and Jamie's A Clash of King interactions, like, Clash of King's interactions. So like, clearly I have a bias for how it should go. But, um, I will say like, this is a critique I have because I can't unsee it ever since Chloe brought it up when we watched, when we were we watching us in the Dragon Season 2 together. You're right. Like, Alice, like, okay, she did feel a little less, as Chloe puts it, Tui, right? In, like, episode one or episode two, I guess, of this season.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for what I'm done. One, yeah. But she feels Tui again. She felt like a little Tweet again, like when she, like, showed up to everyone was like, I'm here. I'm saying such a real. Oh, you didn't know that.

Ho-ho, you know, quirky. Yeah. It's new girl, but in Heron Hall. You're right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I did that to you. I wish I could take it away. You're not wrong.

It's fine, but it's just like there's no substance. Thank you. Oh, wait a second. Yeah. There's just not as much substance as I would think there, but that's okay. You know what? She was giving drip this time. Like I was like, okay, dress rocks.

Yeah, but we can drip when we were tweed too. I don't know. I actually really liked once more Christian's little His little Shakespeare passage again Every time we see Christian Every time we see Kristen Cole He is like here I am walking to my doom being Catholic Everything's terrible

And you know what I'm living for it Because if there's someone who deserves it, it is him He will die on this hill his little passage was I was a foot soldier Did you know that? Steward's son All my father had

Was at the pleasure of Lord Don Darian When his favor failed All we had melted away My father died of sorrow There is no home for one like me Not while Reneira sits the throne Which Whose fault is that

First of all Yeah I am kind of like I don't know Kristen Like I just feel like you didn't try hard enough Like, there's so many paths. There are so many occupations that theoretically someone could have taken as a someone who has watched a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. There were other paths you could have taken.

You could have painted shields. You could have been a puppeteer. You could have been a smith. But he wanted the glory. Yeah. And I liked this scene against, like, Ulf, right, who also has no home? If Ulf fails, all he has is a dragon. And sure, he can become a robber night on a dragon.

He can fly around and shake people down for their food. But he'll never have a home. And he'll never have somewhere to go that's his. And so, like, it comes to Kristen with that too, but he doesn't even have a dragon. He has nothing. So I pity him for that, right? Like, I'm not sad for him necessarily, but I pity him because he will die in this last stand and he will die being this way.

The fact that you use the word pity there, it makes me feel like there is something thematically that I haven't strung together yet going on between this and what Raina was talking about. But I haven't really coalesce that thought regarding the not belonging, et cetera, and things like that. But something's happening here. Yeah, there is something about pity,

and I'm going to be quite honest, I'm just going to say it because it might not be all this, but I mean, I do think it is as Broken Man. Yeah. He is, I mean, we are getting to be a pitiful. I agree. We're getting various moments of the Broken Man speech through Kristen Cole, which like, again, you may not like it,

but this is what a Feast for Crows actually looks like. And Broken Man are more deserving of our pity, right? Though they may be just as dangerous. He does seem, I'm excited to see him be dangerous again. Like Fabian Frankel's doing a great job. I don't think he's got much time left. I don't know, Gwain's, I know, so he has to serve. Eddie Fox.

Yeah, Eddie Fox. He's also doing a great job and being like, what the fuck? He's incredible in the Great. So if you guys haven't seen The Great, you've got to watch it. He's in the Great. The Great is great. Highly recommend. Like, especially if you're itching and you haven't watched The Great,

and you're feeling like you need some sort of period kind of show that'll like, you know, zap you in. It's like 40 minutes of pure everything's good. Yeah. El Fanning's amazing in it. Have to recommend. So is Nicholas Holt. It's, you have to stop what you're doing and stop listening to us.

I mean, clearly. Go watch The Great. Anyways, Aiken and Larry, speaking of the Great's, a favorite plot. Actually, though. Very moved by Aiken and Sunfire. very moved. The Dragon Bond is clearly being focused on, right?

We get it with Raina, where she talks about how, I mean, sheepstealer is a part of her now. She can't leave him. When Damon even suggests that she leave Sheep Steeler, Sheep Steeler belts out in pain. And she says, I can't leave him. He's a part of me. And that's how Egan had to have felt here. This is literally how I feel every morning getting out of bed for my cats. very beautiful to discuss the dragon bond. I find that one of the things that really attracts me to this show.

Yeah, I think they did a good job, like, setting some of that groundwork in this episode regarding those bonds between dragon riders and dragons. And I will say, like, they did a good balance, too, of like, I was, as you said, moved by Egan and being like, oh, he can feel that he's still alive because I'm just like, are we going to see it? Are we going to see it? No, they're building some of that tension. because all of us know, if you've read it like at least six or seven times, like you do know. Even just if you've read it one time, you do know that Sunfire is alive, right? I'll give you that. If you've read it at least once, you know.

And like, I do think they, I like how they bounce that attention with like Larry's dealing with these people and then the humor of like, Hagan just suddenly being like, whatever, I'm going to just speak Valerian out of nowhere. Like, we're supposed to be pretending to be very uneducated. You're out here speaking fucking, like, essentially high Latin, right? But not. Just go speak Valerian, too. And it's kind of funny, too, because as we know, like, Egan isn't the most fluent Valerian.

But... Who knows what he's saying? Sunfire! And Sunfire is probably listening. like hungover as shit, honestly, is how Sunfire is feeling. Sunfire's like, I'm so tired, and this motherfucker is saying weird shit, and he doesn't know what he's saying. Larry's probably understands, too.

Larry seems like the kind of person who's like, yeah, I learned Valerian for fun, which is so Tyrion of him. Absolutely. The guy offering a penny to touch the dragon, or asking for a penny to touch the dragon, is this not a sign of times to come with dragons? like one penny to touch a quote-unquote dead dragon, they're not special. They're not magical.

Once you've lopped the head off one, you can lop the head off others, right? That's a good point, especially good, like, because we're seeing how unceremoniously, like, Maly's corpse is still there. And I was like, are they eating it? There's a Walking Dead episode like that, so it wouldn't surprise me.

No dragon, but. I mean, like, I think we've discussed it in an episode in the past. They probably taste like chicken because alligators taste like chicken. And so do other reptiles. And so do frogs. And we know they're kind of like frogs because, you know, they can switch, they can switch like the reproductive organs, et cetera, which I do think is actually intentionally inspired by Jurassic Park a little. So like, and I do think some of the noises they make, I know people say like they're cat-like or bird-like.

I watched a video of a frog also making squeaky noises, kind of like that, chirping noises. And so I think there's a little frog in there too. Are they eating mailies? Yeah. Oh, my God. There's also the fact that like some amphibians play dead. Oh, they like stay very still and hibernate for a very long time. Oh, okay.

So I wonder if they're playing off of that. Interesting. I'm here for it. Yeah. Like, uh, like, like, some toads and some salamanders will burrow underground and hibernate. Some frogs, right? They survive freezing winters by like just hibernating.

Yes. Acting like, um, icicles actually, but. Okay. Yeah. No, I think, I think there's something going on here. Okay. Something. I like it.

I like it. I thought Brooks Rust was really season two, season three, very Arias Dark plot coded. Very much reminded me of all of that. I'm like, is there gold in the village? How much? Well, it's kind of funny because it does remind you of that a little too, especially when they're like asking, are you riverfolk? And that is the Riverlands are where Arias plot takes place. But then I stopped and I thought I was like, wait, yes, Larry's strong is Riverfolk.

so no wonder he's kind of giving that essence, how strong. I was like, they are riverfolk. I feel like people have forgotten that Larry's is related to Simon. I'm being serious. I'm being serious. I feel like... No, that's fair. It's hard for some folks to realize that's connected because we don't really see Larry's there except for one time.

Yeah, they've never really interacted. He's never been back to Harron Hall and, like, they're related. I wonder if he's going to talk more to Agin about his home life. That would be really interesting for him to open up a little bit to Agan because, like, so far he's not being very forthcoming, but Agan has had to really, like, live his own struggles out in front of Lerries. So I'm curious if Laries will open up it all to Agan, which might make it raw if that relationship goes sour in any way. Yeah, it would be interesting if he gave, like, some Kristen Cole-esque thing saying, I was, I was a second son. Did you know that?

A lord's son. All my father had was at the pleasure of Aaron Hall. My God. Yeah, I do wonder, though, like, I mean, that it's a smorgasbord, right? Like, this is one of those really rare moments that they don't have to follow an exact plot. Because right now it's just like Egan and Lerries are out and about. It's great. It's very also, like, it makes me think.

is it a little, a little like egg story, right? Like, it's meant to contrast now that we've gotten the Night of the Seven Kingdoms to contrast, um, the labor and like mingling amongst the small folk that Egon does, as an egg and the fifth egg. And even like Dineries, right? Like, and also John. I would even like say it's complimenting it in some aspects. Like, yeah.

All right. again, we've come out previously as Team Black, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have great concepts and ideas. So that said, I mean, is Egan going through this kind of humbling, this humility arc, right? I mean, to the extent of why is it giving Jesus, right? He's wandering and begging, covering himself up because he's a famed character. He has one believer, who probably will betray him, by the way. He's forced to live a life in someone else's shoes for the very first time. He was just a rich kid before who was guaranteed the throne because people are sexist.

Everything in his life was handed to him and he crashed his dad's Ferrari. I don't know. There's even the kissing feet, washing feet, right? Something's going on there. also Larry straight up uses the term resurrection. Agan will be resurrected. So is Agan Jesus discuss? Will he come back?

Like that's a sad thing. Like they kill him. But like what if he comes back almost like normal? Like what if he comes back like a good guy? You said like they killed him and I thought you're going to use like the phrase you've been using the past few weeks of like they killed him with hammers. With hammers? I mean, they would kill him with hammers.

I mean, he is also like giving E.T. A little. Stop it. Stop it. He's not giving E.T. With the hood. They cover E.T. With the hood.

And they're like, we're going to hide him. And they're going to kill him with hammers. They're trying. They're trying with Hugh the hammers. So first of all, Egan is not nearly as innocent as Jesus. And he's not. You don't know that? I guess the feet quite yet, but he is kissing it.

And I think like... Ew. Not the shit. I wasn't sure, like, is there an irony, like, meant here in regards to him having to kiss this guy's foot and, like, with Larry's and making, like, Allison show him her feet? Like, is that a thing that they're trying to, like, play with a little? But also, I think, like, in regards to what they are doing, like, I don't... Look, I'm not saying, like, Agin's an innocent baby. I'm not at all, right? Like, he does suck.

We've discussed this multiple times. I don't want to have to caveat it every single time because, like, someone's going to take it out of context. But I do think, and I've said this in previous episodes, a song of Ice and Fire is intentionally asking the question, not as redemption possible, but is change possible for a person? And I do think Agan's arc is asking us that. And I don't know yet.

I'm curious to see where it leads, because I'm not going to be like, Yeah, no, he's totally absolved. He's still acting like a little dick, like here. But that's the point. St. Agan. That's what I heard. No. No.

Girls gone did not canonize. We did not gone canonize that. Jesus. I'm out here writing notes to your relatives that my Filipino co-host is out here, canonizing saints. I'm going to tell everyone you're related to. I'm going to send him the clip of you saying it. Offend me.

Wear your little sneakers and defend my honor. I did not say it. I did not say it. I did not quote the room. I did not. Okay, wait, Tom Tangle Tongue, woo. That was so sweet. I feel so bad for him.

And if we're getting Tom Tangle Tong, does that mean we're going to get Grey Ghost? Oh, interesting. Delusional. I'm delusional. I hope so. No, we should. I think we should. Let's just like, let's just bring out more dragons. Let's fucking do it. I mean, what's the point? That's what the fucking money's for. Yeah, for real. That's the money that we're paying. What do you think? Like, we're paying money to see the dragons. That's what Larry's the scene is about. Fucking call the guy. Who's the head of HBO again? What's his name these days? Aslov. I don't know.

Aslov. Asshole. Call him and tell him. I'm paying for two fucking HBO accounts right now because I'm paying for my family. Whoa. And then I like, well, I got a second one because then all my family's watching the same time as me and I can't fucking watch the show when it comes out. So I got a second account. You can have multiple seats, yeah. Yeah. But they are starting to crack down on that.

No, they are. It's terrible. I was trying to share it with my co-worker. Former co-worker, actually. we have a bond. Not to embody Sharako Lohaer real quick, but I'm like piracy.

Who said that? So, Queens Landing. We're going to Queens Landing, where you know, I told you all something new about me earlier with Daron. I will also protect Ulf with my life. Yes.

Like, let Ulf go to the bar. Let his friends flee the country as criminals to lease. Yes. Let him have a house by Rosby for his friends because again Yes. If he as a Dragon Rider can't do those things then what is the point of

defending the crown? If the crown is not strong enough for Ulf to go to the bar, if the crown is not strong enough for Ulf's friends to flee the country and if the crown is not strong enough to give a house by Rosby for Ulf's friend what was the point of it all?

What was the point of it all? Tell me. You can't because you don't have any answer. And that's how Reneer should feel too. I mean, like, I guess I understand that she's like, look, we can't like just be giving out, like, if I do this for you, I have to do this for everyone else. But at the same time, I'm kind of like, I guess there was like, I don't know. I don't know. I do, I love whatever they're doing with Ulf and his storyline, though. There's a lot of interesting things coming up here.

For example, details about literacy this season and literacy in class, right? Just like, Ken Olfried. Nope. Probably not, based off of the fact that he's like coming and looking at the graffiti and he's like, why is everyone looking at this? And we have to be told by someone else asking someone else, like, what is the graffiti say, right? It says Queen of Bastards.

And then how that plays together with the scene of Larry's and Egan being like, well, we can read. Therefore, we are useful and have a trade and skill that we can contribute to whatever the fuck is going on here and Agan's also like I can also read and I'm like I don't know can you like yeah sure I mean he can he can he can he's just this he's just kind of doing his thing as we have seen in season one and there's also like a lot of discussion you know you're talking about like what actual like rights what actual power does olaf has as a dragon rider you'd think that being like in charge of one of the greatest like nuclear weapons gives you fucking something.

Having like an Eva gives you something. And it makes me think of some stuff that we've talked about in our read-through when it comes to like Stannis and Davos, right? When Stannis feels entitled to just take people's fingers. But also like we talked about it a little with His Dark Materials. What are we going to reference here? Is it Foucault? Yes, of course.

Of course. Is it Girls Gone Canon if we don't talk about? about like a little Foucault, sprinkle it on there for fun. No. And the way that Reneera talks about Ulf's body, being in service to the crown, or even how Orman says, Deren, you have to execute this man because he hurt a high tower, he hurt the body, he hurt you as a prince, right?

And this goes to the concept that Foucault talks about in Discipline and Punish, where he references Muyaar de Vulalan, of how crime was seen as a direct harm, breaking the law was seen as an affront to the king's body, because the law is the embodiment of the king's body, and we will quote, Foucault quoting, we are, um, besides its immediate victim, the crime attacks the sovereign, it attacks him personally, since the law represents the will of the sovereign. It attacks him physically, since the force of the law is the force of the prince.

For law to be enforced in this kingdom, it must necessarily, have emanated directly from the sovereign or at least been confirmed by the seal of his authorship. So, I think, like, you're seeing how punishment operates here, and, like, they are making very much direct reference to this sort of, like, mentality in House of the Dragon, which I think is great and very smart. And I'm not saying that they listen to our podcast, but I'm not not saying it. But also, what we're seeing as well in terms of telling, telling Darren to execute this man and how it acts in dialogue with Rainier's scene and all of being like, you belong to the body of this kingdom to me as the sovereign now, your body

is part of this body, or Darren having to execute this man for doing so. It is not justice, it is the reactivation of power, but it's interesting as well because like the reactivation of power, the whole like execution and so forth of the sovereign doing this is meant to be a ceremony. It's meant to be public. And that's how you reactivate that power. But what does it mean for it to have been done in this very private moment with Darren, right? And that also speaks to like some of this other stuff that happens as well in regards to what is justice? What is not justice with Braynira?

I love that you brought this up because there's power. power knowledge, right? The critical theory from Foucault, that power is based on knowledge and makes use of knowledge. So it all links into very much like House of the Dragons politics and the interpersonal drama that we see where like power reproduces knowledge by shaping it with intention. So like almost like prophecy, how it's, you know, it depends who's wielding the prophecy. It depends who's wielding the sword. so I don't know, I love that you brought through co into this. And plus, it makes me think of HDM again, like you said. The good days.

The good old days. Oh, yeah, I guess we still have more of that to discuss. I kind of forgot. I'm sorry, y'all. You guys, we also cover His Dark Materials. If you haven't listened to our read-through of that and the main three books of His Dark Materials, you should, as well as our coverage of the show.

We're much less keen on the Book of Dust series. But yeah, anyways, I forgot we have that. We dabble. We dabble. We might dabble again, you never know. You know, in the council room, there are a couple patterns that I really noticed, right? The pattern that everybody speaks over Renera and they're just going back and forth over and over again. That's the big one, and that her head is ringing the entire time.

And that happens pretty much in every council that we see her in with more than two or three counselors available. but when she is sitting there with Torin Mandurley at his first council with everyone and Damon comes in flinging the head of the sheep herdsman onto the table everyone moves on from the head so quickly everyone moves on from her son's killer so quickly no decorum no importance about who the man was just the rider of sheepstealer it's over now it probably will never happen again because taming a while dragon is really rare, Damon says, looking straight at the camera and saying, this surely won't be of consequence later for me. I think he's going to get found out about that pretty quickly, but I digress. I don't know. I think this could drive me crazy too if I was Reneer, though, is all I'm saying, like that everyone's just going on while your entire world has like come to a halt. It reminded me of Tyrion, of course, right? A fake head that isn't Tyrion's. And of course, and of course, the mountain as well.

I thought it did remind me of those, like, what you're saying of how Rainier is the only one who doesn't move off of it, right? She's just like, what the fuck? In this moment she has with this, like, I don't know, decomposing head and skull, it's giving Hamlet. Yeah, it is. Well, Brinier is always giving Hamlet, but yes, absolutely. No, that's true.

She is always giving Hamlet, but it was giving Hamlet. Specifically. It was giving us, poor Yorick. And I was just thinking, you know, can I take a school to bed with me? Give me comfort in the night. Oh, yeah. And they did like, they did give, we even explicitly called it out like a few episodes ago and like I'm blanking on it.

But they are, they are giving us moments that are kind of like that throughout the series. And, you know, you're talking about like, yeah, earlier you would call it. out while we killed this like sheep herd and I'm like I don't know like Damon just loves secretly killing people in the veil like his first wife yes that's actually literally how I felt about him killing the sheep's herd but I was like I did take that as maybe I don't conditionally love you reina maybe I unconditionally love you because that's what he does he kills for people that he loves and that's what we want I don't know I know like it's fun in the show I do think you calling that out makes me think of the line where he's talking about,

and this is just like me pontificating in general about like relationships where he's like, Raina, how could you do this? Now I have to deceive Rainira. This is a betrayal. And it is, but especially it's a betrayal of our relationship, right? Like, because for all the problems that Damon and Rainierra have, in many ways, they are quite honest with each other, to a fault, as we've seen. and they butt heads over it, right?

She's like, well, why didn't you tell me about this fucking blood and cheese thing? He's like, well, you didn't want to know. And then, like, they know the ugly parts of each other. And now this is something that comes into the wedge of their relationship. And fundamentally, that's not how a partnership in terms of a romantic relationship works. I guess, never mind. I take it all back because she also is making out with Misaria, but he also kind of knows that in a way. I feel like he knows it.

Well, I'm glad you unconvinced yourself. I take it all back. Yeah, I do too. But, like, it shows how he sees their relationship, at least. Yeah. Yeah. I also like that change of Alan. I like that Corlis sent Alan to court instead of himself.

It's funny because it's kind of the thing that, like, Reneira needed, right, as an heir to be sent to court and to be able to learn and put her, like, word forward. but she was in Dragonstone instead. So Corliss is doing the right thing for his quote unquote eventual air. This is what training your air should look like. And you know what? I don't mind Alan having the cat intro. I know it's not book canon, quote unquote, but Otto not getting the cats, him not getting it.

You know what? Alan, I like him getting it. Maybe the historians didn't want us to know this about Alan because they were too busy trying to get us to focus. on his affair with Alejandra Martel. Yeah, I agree. Which is fucked up. I like that.

I like that. And also, I do want to know about her, though. We've talked about it. I do want to know about Alejandro Martel. I do. Well, if you stay tuned for my season of hot D. Yeah, for real. Delusionally.

I like what you said also about, like, how Alan is being sent here to actually learn, you know, politicking. That's what you're supposed to do. Because theoretically, that's what Rainier was supposed to. to learn, but wasn't allowed to really. Like, that's the whole cup bearer thing. And I've noticed that Rainier continues to keep pouring her own cups throughout all of this small council scenes. They don't have a cup bearer. Interesting. And Raina was the cup bearer. Oh, that's right. She had a job. She had a job, and she just, like, got a dragon. That's what happens when, like, teenagers get cars,

though. You know what I mean? I was out of there when I got car keys. I don't know this feeling, but I did just, like, have friends, I guess, pick me up. I'm like, come get me on your dragon fronts. That's okay. As we've covered. I walked. I'm the dragon rider. I'm the dragon rider.

Yes. Out in that lonely highway with my dragon. There's this pattern where a council meeting happens. And then Reneira immediately goes to find Allison for the real answers. After pretty much it happened twice this episode. It happened once or twice last episode, once before. It's an interesting pattern. She just didn't even knock.

I feel kind of bad for like, she just comes in and she's like, I need help. And I guess she's fulfilling an auto like role. And I will say like I was kind of upset that for a moment this episode, I was like, damn, what if Otto was a little bit right

about how maybe Damon being part of the council isn't the smartest of ideas? That's what I've been saying. I know and I hate it. I hate it too, but he's bad at what he does. He doesn't add anything of value. He derails every conversation and he's not predictable and he can't be trusted. So you tell him to do one thing and he turns around and stabs the other person.

Yeah, I'm like, I really hate to be like Otto had a point. But like maybe he did. Say what you will about Otto High Tower, but he had like a few points. Yeah, and he had that great speech against him. Fagan. Killer, Emmys. Ten of them. I'm just kidding. We can't get those out. It was very cute watching Dexter Soul Ansel will be very excited about getting nominated for an Emmy. Good for him. Good for him. I loved it. He and his friends like child screaming.

Oh, that's so sweet, dude. Good jumping. Good for him. Yeah. I'm happy for him and I hope it's everything he wanted him more. Me too. Speaking of cute babies who don't deserve the things that happen to them, so Helena's pregnant, huh? Yeah. I thought you meant that the baby. How did your focus group do on that one?

I think we're all a little confused. I think that they, so my impression is they seem to think Helena's banging someone else and we're all like whomst. And I explained to them the concept of Maylor and I also, they did make a joke and it would be funny. They're like, is it Kristen Cole? There's one very obvious choice that people continue to talk about that I'm like secretly going, yes, yes. Wait, what do you mean? Because I feel like it's just like Egan, but I don't know.

I mean, okay, the regular answer, the actual answer is Agan. I mean, Rook's rest was a few months ago. probably just starting to show. All that said, the next most obvious choice is... Amund? Sorry, my agenda. Wait, which the Halayman agenda? Yeah, Amend. Yeah, the Halamond agenda.

Finally. I guess, but like after their interaction at the end of last season, I just like simply chip her with absolutely none of her brothers, which is like, I think the normal thing to think when I look back on it. I'm like, maybe I shouldn't ship anyone with their siblings. Yeah, no, I think that it. I'm so glad that you've gotten there. That's so woke of you.

It's so woke of you to not incest ship. Good job, Eliana. Wow. The bar is in hell for this, like, I guess show, huh? Well, I'll be drinking at it, that's for sure. The bar. You know, I don't know how I feel yet. I'm going to see how they play it out.

I'm guessing Maylor will not. live one way or another. Yeah. I don't really know. I'm curious. I am curious how it's going. Like, I don't actually hate the idea. Like, it could be interesting if Helena did have an affair with a non-targarian.

Like, I think I would love for her. I don't think that's the interesting part about the baby, though. It's not, but I do think, like, in general, I would just love since her brothers get to have a whole, like, sexual life outside of the family. and sexual agency and to have that. Like, I would love for Helena to have an orgasm once in her life. Well, she'd have to have a whole entire character for that to happen, first of all. It's starting. She's like, Mama.

Just in time. How could you try and sacrifice my brother husband? Yeah. It's starting just in time, isn't it? Yeah. She's not living, bro. This is not great for me. I mean, but who does?

Historically. You know, when the gold cloaks are beating people up, you can actually hear Reneera's theme's late motif in it, and it's like, as they're, like, beating the shit out of people. So listen to it during the gold cloak scene again, because that was pretty crazy. It was like a very wicked war drummy kind of version,

and very, like, I don't know, like a more massive. masculine version, if that makes sense in the music. Like, there was something very bass and baritone about it. But it also was queuing you to know, this is being done by Queen's men in the Queen's words. This is the Queen's work. Uh-oh. It's a good callback to, like, those opening scenes of season one

and seeing how she's taking on more of Damon's influence, right, in the way that the gold cloaks went. but also it's like, but regardless of whether or not she knew this was going to be how it all went down, it's her responsibility as a ruler to know that this is how it's all going to go down. It is her responsibility. So, interesting. I don't know, something about like the gold cloak scene and what we've been talking about with Tumbledon.

It's giving, I've been saying that phrase a lot today. I'm sorry, everyone. But it reminds me a little bit of Andor. I mean, like, Andor was like, had its own, message and themes that they portrayed very well. So it's not exactly like that, but it makes me think a little of it. And I forgot that I put this joke in here, but Rainier really said to that maister, to that grandmester, she's like, well, you can stay for a or while.

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Terrible. Absolutely terrible. No, you gotta go. You need both. Or while you're here, can you help me out? Anyways.

I really hope we get Orwhile, like I said, more of him because I'm having fun with him. That was very funny. They were very funny together. They were good scene partners when she was like, wow, didn't know you had any to be so bloodthirsty or while. And he's like, oh, fuck. Wrong answer. He's just giving good counsel. He's just giving all the options and the council.

And I like knowing all the options. And I do love that through this exchange, we continue to build deeper. into the A Feast for Crows plotline about the faith's influence. I mean, it does play a role, of course, here in Farm Blood, too, but I'm just like, wow, at long last, at long last, a Feast for Crows, it's happening. Honestly, I mean, we had it last season when it came to, you know, the Riverlands specifically, but, I mean, Burning Mill was as Feast for Crows as it gets, I feel like, but yet. getting all the different facets of a feast for crows.

They even said the lines in the first season or something. Or was it second also? I don't know. They said it. It was second. It was, see. I don't know anything. They said the thing.

They said the thing. And that, we love it. Overall, this was a real navel gazer of an episode. I look forward to what the next one will be, because I think these two are going to be a lot of, like, build up so that the end of this season goes, off. Yeah. Why do you build me up? Foxy Buttercup. Fawksy Buttercup, baby. Just to let me go. What do you want to see next week? I don't really like have thoughts like that anymore. I'm just here for the ride.

I do feel that way. Yeah, I'm just enjoying and letting it happen and come because like I didn't even know what to like think about or want this week. I was just like, I don't know. Something's going to happen. Um, what do I want next week? Or what are you going to focus on? What are the things that you're looking forward to already? I don't think we're going to get more of it, but I've come up with a thing I want. I want more Lady Jane Aaron outfits. That's what I want.

What do you want? I'm like in the realm of things we're not going to get, Elana? I'm like, that was it. That was the last cunt you got served. I think definitely more Deron, Tumbledon. I want to see his character really unfold because the beginning of season four he's going to be really integral to the plot.

We're losing a couple big characters, it seems, this season. Kristen Cole, and if Helena makes it out alive, I mean, I'll owe you all $8 million each. It's not looking great. You don't get a ton of lines suddenly to get promoted to a main character when your character dies in the books, you know? Unless you're Gwain.

Yeah, that's true. Unless you're Gwain. It's Gwain's world. Yeah, Gwayne might live, bro. I think Gwain is going to live and he's going to marry Raina because who the fuck is going to be Garmined at this point? Fucking GPS child. We don't have him yet. They could just whip him out out of nowhere, though.

Like, they did with Darren. Like Daron? Yeah. I'm like, they could. Yeah. I can't believe I'm interested in the Daron plot. This is insane to me. This shows off the reels.

Yeah, I hope we get in this season, Moon of the 3rd. Kings. Yes. Join me. Believers. It's important for the themes. It's important. And I feel like they're really introducing the themes now. So I don't feel like this one's going to be out of left field. Yeah. I'm always curious about the Agan storyline as well. That one I feel less curious about like I feel like I know where it's going. So that's interesting. Well, let's like also, where's Joffrey? Show me the child. I mean, I guess where you, Don't. He's supposed to be on the way back, but like...

They're probably not going to show him, which is probably smart, you know, after HBO also put out the rehearsal. Is he gonna make it back in one piece? Hmm. Do you think Maylor might have a different death and Joffrey might inherit a death? Oh, okay. That's interesting. I mean, he's on the road. Yeah, also what's up with a, yeah, I guess Agin and Viseries are fine.

Yeah, they're in Pantos. Yeah. They're hanging out. Maybe we don't know. We don't know. We just don't know. Yeah. These are questions I have.

But will they be answered next week? You're going to have to come back and find out with us. That's right. Yeah, I was like, with us. We'll be back next week to talk about season three, episode five of Hot D. My God, we're getting close. We're past the halfway point. If you enjoyed this episode, check out the rest of all of our episodes.

Over on our Podbean, over on Spotify, on Apple Store, Google Play, iTunes, whatever you listen to. Or check out our Patreon. Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon. C-A-N-O-N. Yes. Do that. Send us comments. Yes, Eliana likes them.

They truly does. Unless you have, like, a mean comment. Don't send me that because I'm fragile. Sensitive, yeah, you're sensitive. As always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Aliana. See you next week. Bye.

See you in a while.