Girls Gone Canon Cast - House of the Dragon: Unleash the D E1 Ft. Zack of Game of Owns

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

when Eliana's away, Chloe will play. Join Chloe & the prestigious Zack in a casual conversation on dragons, Fire & Blood, George RR Martin, and more in an exclusive episode. We'll be back in July with our A SONG OF ICE & FIRE prologues when Eliana returns to us. *SPOILERS: FIRE & BLOOD, PRINCESS & THE QUEEN, ROGUE PRINCE, HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, ETC, ETC   http://gameofowns.com/ Game of Owns Twitter   Join us at our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/girlsgonecanon   Intro music - Modern Jazz Samba by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4063-modern-jazz-samba License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, I guess, sans one girl. It's one of your hosts, Chloe. And instead of one of your other hosts who is currently traveling the universe, getting some shit done, I am joined by a prestigious guest who is here to unleash the D with me. The Dragon. I am also one of your hosts. Hello, everyone. Hello, everyone. It's Zach from Game of Thrones. I'm glad to be here.

We're here to unleash and give and take the full D. I'm not sure what we're going to title this little episode today, but it's going to be something like Unleashing the D. You're making me think of Tenacious D now. Do you like Tenacious D? It seems like you would love Tenacious D. A little bit. A little bit. I used to really get into Tenacious D in my younger days.

I was going to say in your earlier years. We were just talking about your earlier years. We were talking about Chloe's time in the Doctor Who fandom. And we were just talking about Matt. And you were like, let's record. Yeah. You know, I've got some. Yeah, that did.

That is what kind of spurred us to record. Yeah, I've got some. I don't know. Some conflicting opinions. I haven't come back to Doctor Who in a long time. Before there was a Song of Ice and Fire. Before it took your full attention. Yeah, Chloe loved Doctor Who, man.

In fact, a lot of my Doctor Who friends from the Aesop fandom, they are actually friends I knew in the past. Yeah, I had no idea you met Jason that long ago at a con like that and that it was Doctor Who focused. Like that's so neat. I thought that most of the folks that were at Ice and Fire Con met originally there, but it's neat that you brought people in from other conventions.

I feel like that's the way it should be. It's really cool that it happened that way. I just didn't know. Yeah, and that's kind of cool, right? You get a pack, you travel with your little wolf pack, or your dragon pack. I'm sorry, wrong theme, wrong episode, wrong theme. And later on in the dance, there's some wolf involvement.

Symbolically. The hour of the wolf. I'm not over that the end of House of the Dragon will, if it's similar to the end of Fire and Blood, of what happens in fire and blood that we're gonna get a great hour of the wolf episode for all the dragons of you know beep beep i guess uh spoilers read fire and blood uh read fire and blood okay i'll take that to

heart that's how i feel oh i'm gonna reread it again. I'm going through like a further, like we're talking about Fire and Blood on Game of Thrones right now, chapter by chapter, and I'm going to be going through it ahead of our chapter reread and then catching up with my ahead reading just to try to remember everything because this is probably one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do as far as talking about a book with my friends is remembering all the details of every single

family because I call them that because there's so many years between what happens I know that it's the same family but there's so many different iterations of the Targaryen tiers of families that I mix up all their kids names and once their kids move on and become the head of the house then it's like okay right now as I'm reading I'm like okay that's the main guys right now but then they get replaced by someone else it's just hard to remember that and all the supporting characters Fire and Blood is full of so many details and we covered Dance of the Dragons over at our Patreon only for the most part and we haven't come out of Dance of the Dragons retirement yet right because I think we did like

800 episodes on it. It's a lot. Like, you guys doing chapter by chapter is so fucking impressive because it is a huge, chunky, thick, two-seas book. I love it. We actually got those books. Yeah, we did. That was such a fun night. Yeah. That was cool.

We got to see George that night. I wanted to tell him i was there but then i was like he's probably like yeah if you're a fan of me you should have been there i was afraid to be like okay you can leave now like i was there doing your book release it was great i loved it i paid to see you that one time george yeah i paid george i have two i have two signed books of yours i'm gonna get another one i actually got another one um i didn't know that all the books at his bookstore were signed oh shut up so i bought armageddon rag i didn't know that and so i bought armageddon rag um i don't know if you've ever read that one but i know of it i do know of it does he have fever dream there oh yeah for sure yeah well next time you go back hit me up so i can uh you know chat with you about

a fever three weeks three weeks my god this is insider trading info about george rr martin here on girls gone canon you said you just wanted to be us so i have nothing else to say about the truth three weeks from now so it's june 11th and three weeks game of owns returns to george rr martin's bookstore i i will hit you up then and see if i can paypal a man about some fever dream i think we're gonna try to convince him to record at our airbnb oh you're gonna roll him up uh i don't know that i don't know about any of that yet you know it's just like even even the territory like not be surrounded by all of his books as we talk to him it's a little a little bit more intimidating that way yeah I could feel that it does feel very in his domain right showing

oh yeah for sure most of this yeah change it seems is is in his domain. But that's exciting still. Either way, I hope you get to pull it in your court, the ball in your court. I'm going to be like, listen, this room is too echoey. We're going to need to put up some shit in the corners. Are you going to put George in the closet? Oh, my God. Yeah, do you guys have a full-size closet we could get into? Hopefully.

For those of you listening at home or at work or in your car or elsewhere existing in a park maybe or living your best life, Game of Thrones is hooking up with George R.R. Martin. That sounded more sexual than it is, but hook it up. Hook it up. The crowd goes wild. You guys ever heard of him? I don't know if you guys have heard him. Yeah.

The man, the myth, the legend that wrote Gild dane that wrote fire and blood i think gil dane wrote george i think that the gil dane's the real over god of all of this he's adapting arch maester gil dane's books and that's so brave of george rr martin and it's very brave and he made it so complicated for us that's that's one of the things that i uh that i talked about with them was just like we've got so much to do. Feel free to keep writing more. I want to keep doing this. Give us another 10 years, George.

Please. My God. Another decade of Ace WoF. We need it. We crave it. I don't know. I've been peeping some of George's little posts lately. Whether it's him or his minions posting them uh that obviously the world may never know but he seems a little inspired a little

inspired so whatever you're doing zach and hannah that game owns keep doing it uh i basically just talking about other people's books with hey keep doing that that's what's up that's what's up i hope that like we open the winds of winter i think the high garden chapters might show the most effect then you might get a young arch maester in the making named zach or you might uh oh my god what if we get a lady in the reach named lady hannah that would be good i don't know oh my god yeah something like a summer islander by the name anaha arrives her that's me that would be awesome that'd be cool as fuck too especially that would be last time we talked about sam and kojimo and everyone there on the uh the ship with him and that'd be cool i'd be into that i had such a good time recording that i know that. It was fun. So we're going to see some reach, right? We got the Hightower's big and hot D trailers.

We have the worst. The worst. Otto is the worst. I'm ready to hate him. Yeah, no. Otto's not going to be a fan favorite, that's for sure. But, like, with the flashback mechanism, I feel like I don't know if, like, the full, like, taste of him sticking around and then being kicked out is gonna like sink into people's brains as much and the way that it looks when you see it all laid out in a timeline it's

like when he's pulled back in you're like this must be like a last ditch effort of some kind i have a couple questions for you one uh you just said we're gonna see the reach do you think that we're actually gonna see a lot of westeros in house of the dragon or do you think that we're actually going to see a lot of westeros in house of the dragon or do you think that it's going to be centered mostly around these these key locations yes i do which is going to be i mean that's going to be kind of controversial right like you're going to see these other locations reimagined in some aspects we're probably going to see a newish winterfell right because you're going to get jace going up north and sarah snow uh my God. We're going to get the truth of what the fuck happened there. Right. Will there be dragon eggs a clutch left?

Will Jason Sarah have secretly gotten married at the Weirwood? Will we see any of that? I think we will. So you think that things like like those those questions that were risen in fire and blood are going to be directly shown on camera and a lot of different situations like that? and blood are going to be directly shown on camera in a lot of different situations like that yeah uh when we did our dance of the dragon series at patreon for our stranger tier patrons and up we talked a lot about and this was before fire and blood was breathed about right like this is before or not before fire and blood this was before the show hot hot d hottest d dick hot before dick hot was talked about uh we had no, but we were all saying, I guess we'll never know. Kristen, Cole, and Rhaenyra, what really happened?

The point is, we don't know in the book. However, the translation into show, they're going to have to choose something. Ryan Condal could leave it totally ambiguous. He could still make it ambiguous and leave the audience to imagine and if he does i guess i respect that to an extent as well i just think i don't know i think we have to get some answers on things like that the sarah snow thing i also think going for the mushroom version of some things might make for a better tv show recent interview from ryan connell that i read where he basically said that there's – I probably shouldn't even talk about it because I can't remember the quote exactly.

Maybe you read it too. That he didn't say mushroom directly, but he did comment on multiple interpretations that are prompted in Fire and Blood and that the choices are going to have to be made. are prompted in Fire and Blood and that the choices are going to have to be made. So if choices are going to have to be made, then we know how closely Ryan works with George R.R. Martin on this and how excited George R.R. Martin is for this series. Are you going to consider that an answer

to those questions, the ambiguous nature of this stuff from Fire and Blood once it's said in House of the Dragon? That's the answer? That's what it is? Or do you think that there's still going to be a contingent of people that are like, you know, I don't believe in that. That's not the story that represents the way that I see it. I think there's two answers to that because those are two different questions when you think about it. Yes, there will always be a contingency of people that way.

People that don't believe that slaying a giant in a castle of snow means killing little finger he is little i'm sorry but that's like i'm sorry but that's like one of the most canon that's one of the few canon things right season seven of game of thrones thank you very much uh it's just the way they happen and so i feel okay it's really hard to let myself hope i've been hurt before i've been in a relationship with game of thrones and game of thrones dragged me through the mud threw me into a canal i came back three days later with a bloody vengeance you know that's that's different holy shit i'm sorry that's catelyn stark meanwhile your ex-doctor who is like, hey, I never did any of that to you. I just wasn't that fun in the end. Yeah, it's hard.

I've got a lot of exes here with media, but Game of Thrones, I wouldn't even say that it's an ex. You know, we're on good terms being Game of Thrones. I think that that was different, right? Fire and Blood is a history. It has been written. Ryan Condal has a very precious bit of time here to tell something that's already been written and to take creative and dramatic flair where he wants.

And I think that's going to be really powerful. And look, my husband thinks that Princess and the Queen slash Rhaenyra slash Dance of the Dragons, he hates the story. He's like, it's just like the worst puff piece story of all of them. He's like, okay, sure, I get it. But it's just the same story sandboxed.

And he has other reasons too. And he doesn't hate it. He's fine with it. but it's just the same story sandboxed um and he has other reasons too for it he doesn't hate it he's fine with it but it's just like it's not his favorite it's not the story he would have chosen to adapt so we always i find it completely compelling i think it's a good one to adapt especially on scale it volumize wise like volume it scales up right it starts small it gets huge but it also starts pretty consistently big right chunky with huge flying dinosaurs uh with dragons doggos air doggos but then you build up to a lot of destruction a lot of battle a lot of war a lot of political thrill and drama uh it's weird to imagine we're getting it yeah no hard part for me i think we need new tv though

i think we need new tv that's on the scale where we have like power rangers but instead of being guys in suits it's dragons they're kind of going to be that represented like a sort of cartoonish nature inside of all the intrigue that you're talking about and the you know like we like to put ourselves in the character or like in like the skin of the people that we're watching or reading. And if they're really good looking and they have cool stuff to do, then that's even better. But then you mix in the kind of like fireworks that people like from Marvel movies or like from the Power Rangers, like I said. I'm imagining like the putties, like when you kick them and like sparks fly off of them, like that kind of stuff that's evolved over time to be such a polished new thing, I think is going to be shown in a way that has never been shown before

when we see this many dragons and this much drama. Because if they end season one with the dance beginning, I mean, holy crap. I mean, I think they're going to do like five seasons, right? And so you can imagine all of of the that's their goal all of the beats that are going to be shown outside of that i mean like dragging dragging it out from 100 to 130 ac over the course of two seasons or something makes sense if you needed to do it but the fact that it seems like they're going to jump that far ahead and kind of stay there

is really cool and i think that they might continue to use the flashback mechanism to give us more context especially if season one's really successful and i think that they might continue to use the flashback mechanism to give us more context especially if season one's really successful and people seem to like the lore of to uh pre-100 like all the way back from conquest maybe all the way through jaharis maybe show us i keep wanting to go back to having some of mega or depicted just for context i don't know how that's going to work into the story itself but with all this with all the valyrian steel and all the dragons there is a jaharis moment there's a jaharis moment in the last teaser oh no we're definitely gonna see that for sure and that's but that's not yeah because he wasn't at that council the

changing so like that is you know what for sure that's a good change though that's a good adaptation it's a good way to get fans what the fuck they want. I want to see Jaehaerys. I do. Whatever. Fuck it. Oh, me too. Yeah, no, that's going to be so neat. Yeah.

I think it's also really cool to see Jaehaerys at the end of his time and to see Jaehaerys as the old king. Having people introduced to him as the guy who was so successful at the end of it all, whenever you read Fire and blood chronologically it's always such a question whoever the next person is that's coming in to replace people especially young targaryens that brings up a great thought in game of thrones that king the old king was aries too so for viserys he's following the reign of the old king of jaharis who was the king the golden king everything fucking worked for him we know on the inside it didn't we know insider view right but if you hold it in people can stay together yeah absolutely like his

whole thing is that he is the king that conciliated that made it all work uh even though the inside was much messier to the reader's eye but aries too was i mean the last of the targaryens in the game of thrones view so it's kind of a great contrast to have Viserys and Nenner in positions of power in some aspects that they know will kill them someday in many ways and they make some really hard choices

I'm excited to see Paddy Consign do Viserys I want to see that very badly I think it's going to be amazing especially because in interviews him and Ryan both have said some things about Viserys' man pain, his utter king man pain that we're going to see. And I find him really one-dimensional in Fire and Blood because we don't get POVs, right? I want to hear R reneara's thoughts would make you much closer to her without that kind of utter and total removal from the outside of the things she's actually

doing uh for sure intent we get it it's a little tiny bit of a parallel in some ways for her and for cersei but for viserys you don't get any of it. There's some hints from Mushroom's different testimonies throughout the story of what may be or may not be Viserys' true heart. But we just don't know. I'm calling it now. Viserys burnt down Harrenhal. Wow. He commanded it. I don't think it was anyone else but him.

I think he's the one who commanded it. Mushroom says he thinks it was Viserys. And I do too. What would be the argument otherwise? That it was Daemon out of anger over Harwin and, of course, the Strongs in general. That makes sense. Or that it would have been Otto Hightower who was really pushing it, which also makes sense, I mean. But Viserys being the cloaked, you know, this is the real cat spa for Hot D.

It's going to be Viserys being the cloaked, you know, the cat. This is the real cat spa for Hathi. It's going to be Viserys, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense, especially when you see how much they punched up his character. Securing his reign. Dude, speaking of his reign, I mean, pretty good length of a reign compared to most of the Targaryens that were in charge before him. Like, I think he's number two or number three behind Jaehaerys so you know to have a similar to I think

people were used to it at that point like having the same king for a while the same ruler for a while but with all the potential drama that was underneath him I mean I feel like he had almost almost the same amount to deal with as uh someone like anies or someone before him but like maybe because like i said that people were used to a long stretch of rain the trend was like to just be more chill with how things were because things were getting modernized it was more chill but the fact that he's getting a deeper characterization not just for the tv show's sake but potentially to make his uh the way that he dies at the end of probably the first season. I feel bad if anyone's listening to this and doesn't want spoilers,

by the way. It would be like, that makes sense that you'd be built up for that because obviously we don't want this to be a shallow TV show, but also like you could go somewhere else if you wanted to. But if he was responding, if he was like the sleeper, basically like you're saying,

like the cat's paw, like the schemer that you're saying that he is, then I think that that would be even so much sweeter to see it all come crumbling down. Well, that's just to cure his reign, right? Like her Rhaenyra fucking. Daemon is bad enough, but he can't kill Daemon right without being a Kinslayer. And he's already like very, very publicly shunned damon and be like damon you fucking scumbag stop fucking my daughter um i mean jesus christ like my god worst uncle you met her in the show when she's like seven uh god but you can't like kill him

right because then people would know and that that he's just like so what if you know now my daughter is fucking harwin strong and making a real spectacle i mean it's kind of a tywin would have done that for cersei right like he would have tried to murder people to erase her uh her little issues right if if she had come for sure he was still around now he'd be like all right let's get rid of the kettle blacks i guess fuck yeah no kidding i killed your lovers i'm surprised she didn't get rid of the kettle blacks to be honest she tried i mean i know she had to use them for stuff but jesus christ man well you know she got in a little trouble with the church okay yeah you're right but i don't know i just feel like we all we always

cersei always compares herself to tywin so much you know but like those those are those are the the kinds of mistakes that is the reason why Homeboy was in the position that he was in. That's obvious stuff, but. That's kind of like what I want from Rhaenyra's POV, right? Because I think it's a cross between Cersei and Dany. I would love to read like her thoughts and the reason she does things and like the slights she takes and what she's actually thinking when they happen. And man, I want that. That's the thing is this show is going to fix some of the stuff for George, right?

That he doesn't get to write, hopefully with his influence on some of the things he's checkmarked or thumbs up to Ryan gives us a little of his inner desires for these characters. We don't get an netisode about Viserys. I think that we're going gonna get what you're looking for but what i was gonna ask was how much do you think we're gonna get of that sort of moment to moment blocking with a character like renera to understand her decisions based on how much stuff

we have to get through at least just in the first season like with time jumps and stuff which we know we're gonna get from the footage man i would we're going to get a good amount of that because we've had so many little glimpses in the trailer already of her standing off Dragonmont, looking in the distance, thinking about how she's going to take back her country. We've already gotten a good amount of that. You know, some Dany season seven, episode one, Dragonstone touching the sand kind of shit. You know we're going to get a lot of that good into you.

That was good. I don't want that, though don't i see yeah i like seeing danny there and i like i like all of the it just made no sense the importance of it but like i just feel like if it's nothing but importance for two seasons or in this case if it's nothing but you know important uh like you should really like this because it means so much that these characters are doing this right here and in this place. Then will people actually like love the show the way that we're all hoping that Hot D catches fire as much as GOT did? Catches fire. Well, so here's something interesting.

I think you and I disagree on the trajectory of how they're using the time flashes. I think that we're going to get more linear than most people imagine. I think that most of the first season will be the younger actors for the most part. And some of the same actors. And I think that we will get some flashbacks later. But I think the first half of the season will probably be all the young actors i don't like what age for venera do you think so it's basically what like we're covering 15 to 33 so it's a 15 year span i mean in totality right so it's a 15 year span of time so i'd say that you're looking at someone who's got to be

10 years younger than older ranier i think it's a 10 year age gap i think we're gonna have a decade flash forward years old yeah i'd say 17 18 which is about right that's about right for when he stood in front of everybody and was like that's my motherfuckers um i think that's about right so you got 18 and then you got 28 to 30 ish that makes sense to me well 111 was the greens and blacks right so so it's 15 to 20 years we have to cover i guess yeah that's what i'm saying and so if we i feel like what you just said makes a lot of sense that when we get like a more Dorothy Raniere, it'll probably be like episode seven or something. I think it's going to be a 10 year.

And that closes out the season that way. I think they're changing the timeline though. Like, A, I don't think the timeline matters. I mean, is the other thing. Yeah. I think it's just going to be. We're like thinking about that, but they're not caring about that when they're writing it. You're not going to get like a marker on each corner of the page that says this is 110 ac i think we're going to get

i mean i think we might even open younger renera there might even be surprises like we get younger viserys maybe we'll see flashback flashbacks like you were saying wait maybe we'll get more of jaharis's reign or little snippets obviously we already have that flashback of jaharis the council uh maybe they will lean in with a few well-placed flashbacks which we know dnd really didn't want to do and probably for the better because the ones we did get were fine but i mean flashbacks fine you need them you need a man you need good ones good flashbacks and i hope they're like i think especially now with this story for sure yeah there's a lot to explain uh and i think we might get younger story then and maybe by halfway through the season she'll be 16 to 18 somewhere in that range and

then we'll get a decade flash i bet we'll get like a jump forward you know at most decade at least five years somewhere in there where you have a few kids on her and and that begs the question how many kids are we getting are we even getting all three of the strong boys? And then are we getting both Aegon adversaries? Or are we getting a few of them? Are we going to get Daeron? We might not get Daeron. Or Aemond.

We haven't talked about Lenore's wig. Yeah, Laenor's wig is... All the wigs are not great? Question mark there. I mean, Lainer's wig, Rainey's is wig. Girl. Girl. Girl.

Rainey's is wig. The back of it. What do you have in there, Rainey's? A motherfucking ship? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that. Yeah, I remember you talking about that. And there is some part of it that's like very,

you know, Renaissance-y, like very, it was a style, I, even in the 60s, I guess there were some styles that were very beehive that were reminiscent of it. But it's,

to me, it's obvious of a failure with the wig. And like, I'm not even saying like they tried, it's just, they put something in there to make it that shape and they backcombed it and teased it to that shape, and then they put that on her head. And there's something I noticed with Targaryen wigs specifically in Game of Thrones,

and now the Game of Thrones universe, is where they have a lace front wig. There are two types of wigs, Zach, when you cosplay, just to give you the full rundown. Remember back to Ice and FireCon with all these humans running around. There are wigs that are just like, they have a fabric cap in them and they fit on your head and you would adjust them. And you can kind of tell sometimes if you look just right, you're like, oh, that's a wig.

But you're not, no one looks like that. So no one notices, but they look like wigs. And then there are wigs that have a lace front or top that look very natural. And you cut the lace you glue it onto your head basically for the day with adhesive or for weeks even some people do and you glue it down and it looks very natural it blends in very natural but all of these characters have the hair pulled at the temple very

tightly back with these wigs and I i guess like it's confusing to me because they want to try off some of these hairstyles and make them very showy and try to come up with something special and indicative of like an era indicative of a region right they're trying to do some costuming and hair world building which is fine but the targaryen wigs specifically always have this awful pulled back quality that make it look like they have all of this load being buried at the back front top like above the occipital on the back top of their head they're bearing a load and i just don't get it why can't some of them have some nice fallen locks you know some nice soft fallen locks or

some just like i don't know it's weird to me because these are heavy, like Emilia Clarke's head and shoulders. I hope they insured those motherfuckers for a million dollars because they held up not only most of the show, but also they held up that wig, all of those braids. Dovahkiinis. Dovahkiinis, exactly. Wish I could remember the whole speech. That's everything you said is true but it's also just i don't like the way they look on top of that and there's just something about it i'm not um really a good like a good chooser of what people's hair should look like like i don't

consider myself someone that has like expertise in the matter but i am a person who has eyes sometimes i use them and i see it and I'm like, I just feel like it pulls me out because I see you're doing this thing. It didn't really happen until later on in the Game of Thrones series when they got a lot more money. And I don't know. Also, it canonically goes with the scale of Dany's power rising.

I understand that. So we're going to an era that's fortified with targaryen legacy and so it makes sense that there's going to be ridiculous it's going to be richness like i understand that it's going to be opulent and things are going to be uh like they can be both dangerous and wild and have their look put together that makes total sense to me like it doesn't have to be like gritty all right like we doesn't we don't have to be like aria traveling north right with the night's watch gritty game of thrones even though people really like that it worked really well like i can i understand that you want to

make it something else but i don't really think that it works that well in season seven or season eight of game of thrones and it seems like we're not changing like those things between that show and this show and i think it was part of the reason the way that characters look quite frankly that a lot of folks were pulled a little bit out of the immersiveness because it was when you can see decisions being made out loud like when you can notice that like this was a decision like you were saying about like they they really made a lot of like they put a lot of work into the way that hair looks i understand like putting a lot of work into a set and honestly a lot of work into people's outfits, too.

But there's also a little bit of flourish when you're doing a lot of work on something to also make it look effortless. And I'm not saying that you can't have a hairstyle that's full of effort, but maybe finish it in a way where it seems real. Yeah. Not just make it in a way where it's the only way that we can make it. And that's the best job that we can do because everyone's so rushed and so busy. Like that seems to be the vibe. And I think that it pulls people out of the immersiveness. Even a layman like me who doesn't know anything about wigs and the way women's hairstyles are supposed to look. I see the I see Rhaenyra and Lenore standing on the beach and I'm just like, what's going on here?

That's my first thought. Like, I hope that's being shot from an angle that is flattering because what's going on here? That's my first thought. I hope that's being shot from an angle that is flattering because what is going on here? Yeah. I think some of the, and the Valyrian silver hair, I think it's a good choice to have. And I love that we have textured hairstyles on the show, but I do feel like the wig work in Game of Thrones,

the wig work in Hot D so far has not impressed me. And to that point, like what you were saying, for example, Cersei and Sansa, these characters both had down-dos that were very relaxed when they were not doing things like Sansa on the run in the North had her hair in a messy, scruffy braid. Okay, and that's fine. Sansa in season seven, for the most part, had a horrible wig, a really bad wig. It was not good. Season seven wigs were really bad wig. It was not good.

Season 7 wigs were really bad for some reason. Cersei has had some crazy fucking updos and some crazy hairdos, but she also had moments where her hair and her wig and whatever she was doing was just normal and fine and just flat and down. And Rhaenyra definitely so far has had the better of the wig issues.

Rhaenys' wig is like, the thing that really bugs me about her, and I don't think they're going to do this. Again, I think there's a positive trajectory here. I think we're positive. We're optimistic even almost because we're so thirsty for content

for this to be good, really good. And I just hope they aren't like making her such a martyr character if that makes sense because the whole line in the trailer of like you know men would burn things down before women getting to sit on that throne um etc etc and that's fine like it's true it's a true thing but like sure there is the shot where they're leaving the painting table room when they leave the painted table room you see she's in armor. Rhaenys is very briefly in the background, which is good. I just hope they're not neutering her character in some aspects.

I just hope, you know, she's still, I'm sure she's going to have the fucking hero's death of everything. But I got a little like vibe almost that I was like, oh, God, please don't do that to her. Please let her be fierce and wonderful. And like Lena, I'm very please don't do that to her. Please let her be fierce and wonderful. And like, Lena, I'm very interested to see how we get Lena. We've only seen her very briefly in the shots of the Valerians when they roll in like baddies and their black and gold brocade. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah, they look cool there.

They look like the HBECs right there. They show up and they're like, yeah, we're marrying in. Yeah, we're saving Rhaenyra from her bastard kids ruining her legacy yeah what up uh they look great they do lena looks you could just see her in the corner and she does look fabulous with her beautiful curls um rip rip to a real one i'm interested how they're gonna play all that lena and raniera's friendship i hope that exists still because i did love that they had a friendship in the books. But then like the fact that they're almost like a poly triad? That's what that word is. Polyquad.

Polycule? There we go. Yeah, it's polycule, which is, you know, I'm watching Battlestar Galactica for the first time, everyone. And there's a polycule that just happened in season three that I was not expecting. Wait, remind me. What is it? Is it Chief involved? No, but it is. Oh, I love that one, too, with Tyrell.

Anyways, but it is Six and Deanna and Gaius. Oh, yeah. That's a stretch. I was like, y'all are just fucking? Cool, cool. I'm a watch. With their little Sims 1 love bed they're all in like that rotating bed in the middle of the lights my god Battlestar is amazing you guys holy shit yeah dude they got

to do so many things with that see what we need is a good old-fashioned sci-fi show like that listen up hot do you sci-fi right a swap is I'm just kidding sure a swap is sci-fi no it is yeah no for sure i think you can make listen hold on hear me out i think you can make fire and blood sci-fi with all the dragons and like imagine see you were just talking about the valerians walking down the stairs okay imagine you cut from stepstones corliss and damon to now we have to be buttoned up and nice i mean what's not sci-fi about that you got you got dragons blowing up ships and stuff i mean like there's a way that the dragons work that we don't know about yet have they ever been visited by off-world entities i don't know it's probably

never gonna happen but we're living in the context of history so maybe we just don't know about it yet you know it has all the characterization though that makes it cool you know what i mean it has all the tears of people being in places that you want to see them being in and then you have like them standing in some kind of court or in battlestar on a bridge being nice and following the rules and then wilding out in some way and you know i have to say you bring up dinosaurs and i'm like zach sothoryos we have to go to Sothoryos. That's where we go for the dinos, man. Yeah, just dragons that can't fly.

So what's the point of them? We can ride them. A really good mounted steed. Listen, it's not all about flying mounts. Ground mounts can be cool too. Like if you have a flying mount and you go into a town, there's so much wind, so much attention. There's probably archers.

There's, like, rules and regulations. But if you come in on a small dino, you can, like, navigate the same streets and stuff. And a dino is a way cooler riding mount to have because it has a mount that can snap at people. Like, it's dangerous. Like, reptiles want to kill people. That's true. That's true. Can we get Sothoryos no absolutely not season three of battle star we get a rotating circular bed they didn't know that they wanted

that in the first one so we could go we have we could go anywhere if we could take a little bit of uh i'm just saying like if we took a little bit of what's the word that would you take like I don't know what it's called creative little creative like creators control creators content that's the descriptor I can't remember the exact word liberty there we go take some liberties with it like I don't understand

why we can't double down on the things that people enjoy and so you say Sothoryos and I think that anyone who's ever read Game of Thrones or a Song of Ice and Fire watched Game of Thrones or a Song of Ice and Fire, watched Game of Thrones or read Song of Ice and Fire and knows about the different places in the world, like, we're going to get to see the Sepstones. We're going to see more of Harrenhal.

We're going to get to see locations that we love. We'll probably get to see, I mean, like, we are going to get to see Storm's End, and that's going to be awesome. Yeah, probably end of the season. Now, that would be neat. We're going to be able to see a much more sci-fi like or really even anime like if you want to get down to it like a clash of

certain characters let me think about the god's eye for example that's literally from an anime if we're gonna have all these different genre textures nailed into the story i just don't think that everything is is as on rails as it has to be and i think it would also be a really cool opportunity um if the show is loved and successful um in a way that like surpasses everyone just being okay with how season seven was but like i'm really impressed with it that i think that there's like some really cool opportunities to give us further context on things that we are still curious about you know like what's going on with the faceless assassins for example or like what what what where the targaryens came from and what was happening in old valeria well and that's the thing i really wish give us context exactly i want the lysine

spring man that's what I want on TV. I want the Lysene Spring and the end of Regency for Aegon III. I want this to finish Aegon III's Regency. I think that to do this show right, you should finish Egg III's Regency. I think you'd get so many good characters. You'd get to see him at the end kind of branded up, you know,

be like, shall we get started rolling into the room? No, I'm just kidding. But I mean, Aegon III and Bran are pretty much similar characters. It's called parallels, people. Kind of Bran it up, you know, be like, shall we get started rolling into the room? No, I'm just kidding. But I mean, Aegon III and Bran are pretty much similar characters. It's called parallels, people. We could be a good place to leave it, too, because that. Yeah, it would be that he finally stands up and he's like, I, Aegon III, the saddest boy in all of the realms, declares that I now control the realm and you can't tell me to do shit.

Goodbye. And also what has brought us all here together today are stories. And who has a better story than Agen III? Than me. Than Agen III. Who has a better story than Agen? Oh my God. Are you excited for anime live action

through the lens of Song of Ice and Fire? A little bit. I think- With dragons streaming through the sky in different colors and Song of Ice and Fire? A little bit. I think with dragons streaming through the sky in different colors and shapes and sizes and aggression. I'm worried it's going to be very Avatar, you know, or not at all Avatar, which could be worse. That was tough to watch for sure. But at least we don't have like people who can spin in place and do, uh, wait, do you remember that old show or movie when we were kids with the kangaroos? Kangaroo Jack?

No, no, no, no, no. It was like a fantasy thing where these kangaroos were doing martial arts. It was a single movie. Anyway, that reminds me of Avatar. No, I don't know that. People are screaming at their podcast device right now. It was one of my favorites when I was a kid. It was kind of like a Power Ranger vibe. I keep going back to Power Rangers. I don't know this. They're kind of like Zords. I don't know this. It was one of my favorites when I was a kid. It kind of had a Power Ranger vibe.

I keep going back to Power Rangers. I don't know this. They're kind of like Zords. I don't know this. It's good. I've got to look it up. Look it up and send me a link, please, because maybe I do know it. Maybe I'm just withholding it.

I've got a couple of those. The K. Roo Jacks first thing that comes up. See? I had the first. I had the first. No, no, you're right. You're right. You're right.

Zach, I'm worried that with this show, War is a Virtue. I never heard of it. War is a Virtue. There you go, Warriors. Look at this. Wow. What is that? I've never heard of this. Chloe's talking to me like I'm a three-year-old.

What? Wow, you do a thing. I'm going to put your favorite show on for you, Zach, okay? Can you put it up on the refrigerator with a magnet, please? Oh, Zach. Yep, let's just watch your show now, buddy. No, I'm just kidding. I have never heard of that.

I think this show is going to be really good at showing some of that complexity going on, even with characters like alicent who like on first read of the story i think alicent is a total frigid cunt in my head um i will be honest like that's my first read through however i had a friend a notoriously great friend named maddie and she has kind of convinced me to stop, drop, and think about it, bitch. And Alicent is actually kind of sympathetic when you think about it in its worst, right? Like, it's like, what if Sansa had to carry Joffrey's babies after all?

You know? Look at you making the Sansa connection to Alicent right now. Well, and I don't know about Sansa so much, but, like, I do think, like, it's that kind of... No, go with it, go with it. She's not exactly a hostage, Alicent. She did it willingly, right father was like her father's like little finger kind of in that sense he's like we gotta we gotta plan we have opportunity as well very anne boleyn right

like girlfriend get out there and strut your stuff and strut it next to a king maybe a future king whatever king you can get and put on the line you you should take it. And she's told to do it and she does it, which is like, I mean, that's what she was told to do. And she gets children. She does exactly the job she's supposed to. And then we hate her. And I'm like, well, I mean, society does say. She does some fucked up shit. Yeah.

How do you not tell someone their dad's just died? That is shitty. That is shitty. But at the same time, if you come into the room you're like shit my husband's dead and i have this whole room of dudes that's like what are we gonna do and i'm the one they're looking at i mean there's even catalan vibes in that right like catalan really took the wheel on a lot of that um cersei also though cersei as well yeah i i really love that you can see a lot of the way that George writes some of these women and some of the situations they're really placed in and how they have to kind of bust

out of them or work through them even. I do. I actually really find Alicent now, like, not apologizing. I just find her a very, very complex and interesting character. And I think that Olivia Cooke is really going to hold her together. Like, she's going to deliver. She's going to be the Lena Headey of the show probably. What if people are going to be sort of set up to be annoyed by the rigidity, the condescension, and the opulence of the Targaryens?

And Alyssa ends up being every man enough to connect to a wide audience that there actually is a split between the Greens and the Blacks allegiance online. Because it's so overwhelmingly Blacks right now with nerds. I've started to see Greens emerge. I have. I think it's going to be a thing. I really do. I think this is going to be. I really do too.

I think this is going to be something interesting to watch. And I do think that they're going to play on it with the show. I think Ryan Condal and his team and Miguel Sapochnik, they're going to really, they're going to play on it with the show i think ryan condell and his team and miguel um sapajnik they're they're gonna really they're gonna play on that they're gonna leverage they have to because i mean it's so rich there's so much emotion there like the the one shot in the trailer right where allison has the cat's paw dagger and her hand and she's going at raniera that's not real that's made up but that that's fine. That elevates the tension, the drama. Because that's the thing is I want to see this tension. That shot of her and Kristen Cole glaring at Rhaenyra, I want to see the tension.

I want to see where it takes us. Yeah. That's exciting. I was, when we were talking to Germ. Germ? Somehow got onto blood and cheese. Oh, that's going to be gruesome yes yes and uh i was like you like i was like what is wrong with you blood and cheese what happened and uh uh then we were

talking about the greens and the blacks but like just somehow tangentially connected to one another and uh allison the things that she does and uh he was surprised that i told him we did a poll on twitter i was like everyone loves the blacks he was like really i was like yeah i was like yeah i did a poll i got i was like i got i got receipts it was like it was 80 it was like 80 20 or 85 15 oh yeah uh greens to blacks and he didn't seem uh to expect that blacks to greens oh yeah sorry yeah blacks to greens and he didn't seem to expect that. Blacks to greens? Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, blacks to greens.

And he didn't seem to expect that. So I think, if anything, like maybe Allison all along, and this is just, this is complete speculation because I didn't follow up with it. Maybe she was supposed to feel that way, the way that the show might amplify it

that we're talking about. Like the whole time, like maybe you're supposed to be able to contextualize that this is happening to like yeah someone is being ambitious but they're also like more normal like you yeah like you're not a part of the exceptionalism like we're not targaryens you know well and that is something so hard to understand about the targaryens yeah that is and this is the first time to get to on a screen like that that's the thing to understand it's like danny is so easy to relate to because she's the last of them and you're like wow yes but then you actually get the rewind and it turns out there are

many targaryens with many different personalities and many of them have different motives and not all of them are good not all no yeah and all of them are bad but like ultimately like they're not better than you yeah and like we're we're glorifying those people maybe that's like a problem with us that is being highlighted through through the through the writing of these stories themselves and like maybe that fact that we're all supposed to be picking up on especially with the amount of people that got mad about the way that Daenerys behaved at the end of Game of Thrones or the fact that she just wasn't lifted up and the whole story like wasn't about her winning and being the greatest person of all time like that that contextualization of of i'm the answer to the problem and you guys

are my subjects which of course that's oversimplifying what it is but that's sort of like the dynamic of what's going on at least with the targaryens especially this far 100 plus years into their their dominion of westeros alice and being that person in there if it if it's pulled off right could like make that point so much better and with more depth i bet they've had this conversation like probably around the beginning before this even got started i bet this i don't know maybe this is like part of the reason why they were so excited to do this on tv because it's like making that point way more clear, I think. Well, and you get to Alicent and just, you get to Alicent, but you get to Allie and Jake, right? Jaehaerys and Alicent, and like,

they just started marrying their kids off. They just started marrying their kids off to real people, not just each other, right? Everyone before them is like, yeah, just marry your brother or your cousin. It's going to be good. But they just started marrying them off to real actual Westerosi people from the Vale, from here, from there.

We get to Rhaenyra. Her mom was an Arryn, right? You have Daemon married to a Royce. You have kind of this departure from the Targaryen customs, the Valyrian customs of marrying one another so closely entwined. And you start to see, like,

the blood pool being made bigger. Viserys and Alic and allison for example become something that is necessary uh for the targs i mean for survival they can't keep living that way you can't just have 13 kids and have like 20 of them survive and the rest break your heart okay like that's not a sustainable thing for a mom and dad king queen duo uh it's not sustainable and to get to where rhaenyra and viserys are and him ending up with alicent and alicent still giving him more children i mean again once more the whole entire end of this story all the dragons die and they're like it's aegon three's fault because he hated dragons ever since he saw his mom eat it by one and i'm

like no it's y'all's fault because you danced in the since he saw his mom eat it by one and i'm like no it's y'all's fault because you danced in the sky on the greatest dragons in the world and killed each other over and over and then the people rose up against your bullshit because they were like we're tired of being killed and they killed your dragons like that's why the dragons are dead the storming of the dragon pit was the beginning of the end for the targaryens that was the answer to them that was the answer the question was targaryens the storming of the dragon pit was the beginning of the end for the Targaryens. That was the answer to them. That was the answer. The question was Targaryens. The storming of the Dragonpit was the answer.

I don't... That's it right there. That's what killed them. Not Aegon. This plus GOT... Sorry, this before GOT is going to make that question of why they are who they are and how they are who they are seem even more silly than it is being set up to seem because of that gene pool mixing that you're talking about.

Because that's one thing that Fire and Blood really does. It's supposed to be around this point in Fire and Blood. But seeing it on screen, I think will allow a lot of people that are never going to read Fire and Blood to be like, wait a second. These Targaryens are Baratheons. These Targaryens, like, Arryn's, like, literally, it goes all the way from the top of Westeros to the bottom of Westeros to outside of Westeros. You know what I mean? Like, it's an idea.

It's not an actual thing. And we're doing all of this for an idea, I think, is going to be sort of a greater takeaway of all of it while we're getting, like I i said all of it sent through hopefully a really well done sort of anime setup in live action and that's why i actually find ronira really compelling right as that tragic hero to bring eliana back into the mix she may not be here with us today god bless her god bless her but but bless you eliana she has this essay if you haven't read it it's it's really good. It's called Daughter of Death, A Song of Ice and Fire, Shakespearean Tragic Hero.

And she opens the essay basically comparing Daenerys to Lear, Hamlet, and Othello, showcasing the passage where she kills Drogo in A Game of Thrones in Daenerys IX. And there are three references in the passage that are to King Lear, Hamlet, and then to Othello. The first one is, Never the darkness cried, never, never, never, from Kanglir.

Hamlet, she wanted to sleep to sleep and not to dream. And then Othello, she knelt, kissed Drogo on the lips, and pressed the cushion down across his face. And like, the idea of Rhaenyra sitting on a throne with Daemon in her ear saying, Darling, I'll kill these

people that hurt our children so badly, your children, but they're my children now too, and I will hurt them. Just say the word. And she says the word. And she's like, yes, even though Helena has done nothing to her. That's who I'm very excited about.

I love Helena and she deserved the universe. She's done nothing to Rhaenyra, right? And that hurts another mother so much. And Alicent, who like, arguably does the most to Rhaenyra, like? And that hurts another mother so much. And Alicent, who like, arguably does the most to Rhaenyra, like hurts her on a visceral level. A visceral level, if you will. In her mind

though, right? Like that's the slight she takes and everything from there she takes. And they're both just trying to survive. Like another world where two women are pitted against one another and one has to survive by murdering the other woman's children and everything she loves. That's what we're going to watch on screen once more,

which they already played that in season eight, I guess. The leverage there was a lot of it. But that is a big part of the story of watching them once more be pushed against one another by everyone else in their lives and made to war and it's tragic for Rhaenyra like because when Daemon comes back and everyone comes back they're like when they bring Maelor's head to her you know there's the differing accounts whether she wept whether she laughed whether she you know was in complete pleasure over the idea of her enemy

suffering whatever she actually was that we don't know, that's one of the accounts we'll see. And to me, I think that she Roberted it. I think she looked the other way at the Targaryen children's heads at the bottom of her throne, right? I think she looks the other way for Rhaenyra. And I think that makes her that much more tragic on screen to watch as she knows that to get what she wants, she has to do that. at the end it costs her everything she's lost a lot too so all that contextualized

i mean i think it's a lot more forgivable than just like putting yourself in that position and thinking what you would do because you'd like to think that you would do a lot of nice things but i mean it was actually hers like they told her it was hers legally in front of a crowd they were like yo this throne when he died it's you girl it's you like that was the I will say like that was the decree it was and people had to swear it

yeah everyone but Damon pretty much yeah and he swore it with his cock on your side exactly he swore it with his uncle cock my god Jesus is it not the hottest let's be honest On your side. Exactly. He swore it with his uncle cock. My God. Jesus. Is it not the hottest? Let's be honest. His uncle cock.

And you know, yo, while they CGI these dragons, it's like, why can't they CGI Matt Smith's eyebrows? Oh, Jesus. They probably can still. It's not too late. It's only a few pennies. You know, throw it in. The penny tax.

I will say, Matt Smith as Damon, I think it's going to few pennies you know throw it in the penny tax uh i will say matt smith as damon i think it's gonna be poetically amazing i think it's gonna be the funniest thing i've ever seen but also the most i think it's gonna be good it was made for you dude he has such chops you love you love matt smith you love that era i love matt smith and matt smith is like flamboyant and ridiculous but also like he can turn dark on a dime's edge like he just turned razor's edge dark dark dark yeah it is damon oh my god it's like kind of amazing it's kind of awesome it's it's uh the doctor at stonehenge or whatever yes yes yes making the speech when he gives the mean speech he's like i am talking um and not only that but

like his weird because yeah because this whole entire body is like... You know in Harry Potter when Gilderoy Lockhart takes all the bones out of Harry's arm? That's who Matt Smith's whole body is. It's like somebody magic-doubled... He's just like a slippery rubber glove of war and drama. And I don't know.

Something about him as Damon, I think he's going to really lean into it. I mean, he has so much theater experience, too. He's going to really lean into it. I mean, he has so much theater experience, too. He's going to really get into it. And Damon is. He's just such a dramatic-ass, bitch-ass, crazy-ass character. I don't really love Damon. Me and him.

He's also ageless. Yeah, he is. I mean. Yeah, he really is. And Matt Smith has the most hairstyles in all the trailers so far. There are three haircuts that you can track matt smith by okay in the show the short hair at laner and raniera's either engagement or wedding it looks like a wedding uh he has short hair which means he just came back from war and he was finally

accepted back super long hair is the beginning season one early flashback and then shorter hair is grown out like long like the shoulder length hair that's grown out from after war so that's towards the end of the season so if you keep that in mind if you're watching the two trailers you can kind of figure out when certain things are like whether they're end of season mid-season or pre-season i find that very interesting they really fucked up on matt smith having hairstyles I've tracked the whole show. I think they, I mean like the whole story is out. I think they want people like you to figure it out. Shit, you think

they know that I know the story? Oh no. Dude, they want these podcasts. They want them out there. They're like, please get people excited to watch this TV show. Well, I am kind of excited because I feel like I'm very divorced from the show. Like, I am kind of excited because I feel like I'm very divorced from the show. I mean, it can't hurt me.

Right? I don't think it can hurt us. Unless you learned something you don't want to know. Like what? I don't know. I don't know the inside of you. Not that well. Oh my god. I mean, what if they take somebody that you really

like and they make them suck? I mean, that's a base level shallow thing that could happen to you. And you could walk away from each episode being like, no. I mean, that happens to me watching Potter. I'm like, let's not do it like this. Like simple misadaptations of how to use spells. Like why does Lumos have to have a bunch of different shit added to it no like the intro and then closing spell that was bullshit that was never in the books uh right like lumos nox what the fuck that doesn't matter what is this world building

it's not world anyways yeah uh nox is the way you put your wand out you wouldn't say it with uh like in in conjunction with that original word and you wouldn't also say like a different size but like that's that's geeky shit and like that can be forgiven but when you see like i said when you see the wigs the style of the approach from the end of thrones that a lot of people kind of see as like part of the downfall or at least the downfall era. When I see some of the same polish from the downfall era come through, it's like I don't know if we're learning from it completely because some things have gone through. So that risk of you walking away disappointed or at least let down is still there. I don't think it's going to happen, but I do think that there's some things that are still making me feel unsure.

But when I hear how much George likes it and when I hear how much Ryan Condal really likes the source material and how interested he's in doing something that is sticky and that is fun on TV and not just collecting a paycheck and not just trying to hurry and get it done so you can move on to making Star Wars I think that if that that makes me feel like we're being set up for something that could really really like uh land well on people do you think that that's going to be the case do you think that this is going to be a blowout that people are really going to enjoy the show or if it's like is it going to be just the nostalgia of Game of thrones that makes it popular or do you think that that's what's going to bring people to it and then they manage to continue the the legacy by making something awesome in the first season i think that that's a that's a hard one because i i see a lot of what you're saying in general that like it's I mean, is this show being created or was it asked for with the idea that the story was a compelling story? Or was it asked for because they wanted to do a Game of Thrones spinoff, right?

And that's one question that doesn't relate to the next question, is does ryan condell love the source material and respect it he does that is so obvious it does show uh and that george is happy as you've kind of seen that that does show so that's a good sign george was also happy at the first season of game of thrones and the second and the third and even the fourth and somewhat the fifth because they probably made him on a live tv say so but you know before they back the money up but like that that's harder and i guess time will tell i don't think the good news is that like none of these characters i went on this podcast ranking thrones great guys they're really fun and i went on for the raniera episode and i went on very girl boss gaslight gatekeep

like i love ranra happy to like stan Rhaenyra and say yes queen commit you know crimes towards everyone very happy to say that live in public but they kind of did get me they were like Chloe are you sure and they were like because this was pretty bad this was pretty bad this was pretty bad and I'm like shit you're right okay maybe she's only a four out of ten okay maybe she's only a four out of ten i get it but with that said like none of these characters besides reneera and maybe young alicent are that compelling some of the kids kind of are but even they don't last that long uh none of these characters i mean they're compelling like they're fun to watch but none of them are like i love the starks i love bran i love

rickon i love rob i love you know what I mean like none of these characters are characters that you're out there saying that Rainey's I love Rainey's I love Eve Best who's playing Rainey's if you saw Nurse Jackie she's in Nurse Jackie and she does an amazing job and I highly recommend that show it's one of my favorites of all time it's just a great roller coaster but she's a great. Rainey's is an amazing character. I'm going to love her. I'm going to love Corley's. I'm going to love watching that drama play out.

But I'm not invested emotionally. I'm like, that's my girl. Get to the finish line because I know nobody wins. Like literally no one in this show wins. I think that it could be a cleanup crew that is continuing everything. I think that that might have been what it is, but I think that George has learned his way in there by getting Ryan to be the guy to show run this. I think that Miguel is going to help bring a lot of the thunder

that we like but i think that visually yes yes i think that the difference between dnd and uh ryan is that ryan's george's man i respect that and i think that that bodes really well for us i think that even if a company like HBO wants to be as hands-off as they are because they're not the creative people. They're a business behind it. They're business people making creative decisions for the most part.

And they rely on people like them, like George and those people, to make their products successful. And sometimes they get in the way of that. And I think that we have a better connection to who's really in charge of this now more than we did before with the parts of Game of Thrones that I think kind of got out of everyone's hands

because it became such an important business product. I think that even if this becomes an important business product, that I think we're in a really good place unless Ryan goes totally rogue and stops texting George, which I don't think is going to happen. I feel really confident. cool stuff in this and that matt smith for example um can catch enough like young uh dorks that don't really know what they like yet and then pull them in and i think that they can make dragons cool and that they can make the story seem epic and that since there's so much that happens leading up to the dance and during the dance and after the dance and before the leading up to the dance like through just the history of the targaryens in this world that we're also used to is that i think they have like all the chance in the world

to make this something that people really stick to but i agree there's not going to be the same takeaways as like i love brain or i love sansa or i love aria but i do think that you might be able to say i love this show if they do a really good job because there's really nothing else to watch not like that except for rings of power yeah well there's a good baby boom right now shows right everyone knows we suffered during the old rona there is uh everything has suffered greatly and i think it's like a big baby boom of media 90 day fiance though in the circle and the circle i hear eliana loves the circle i need to watch the circle yeah you. You got to talk to her.

She's into it. I feel like she or someone told me to watch that recently. I'm not sure who, but yeah, I'll check it out. Like, what's so good about it?

I don't know. I have no clue what it's. I think it's like a, it's like a big brother situation, right? I love big brother. The original ones. I'm a,

I'm not a, well, you know, I lie. I'm watching Jersey Shore again. I missed it. I'm trying to get all the way through the newest season. I'm watching Jersey Shore again. I missed it. I'm trying to get all the way through the newest season. You can't creep in this weather.

Oh my God. You can't creep in this weather. Yo, we're GTL-ing in this house this summer. We are GTL, Jim Tan Laundry. Good. That is the big thing this summer for me, GTL. Ready for the shore. Ready for t-shirt time.

Yeah, no, it's bad. We've hit rock bottom with shows. That and I'm re-watching Party Down right now. Re-watching Party Down's on hulu watch it you'll like it it's uh adam scott's in it you got a couple other great names in it it's a little comedy it's about people that run a party planning business they do like catering party stuff etc and too close to home well there you go yeah and the first it's uh you got the main cast who's the party planner people the the group of people that work the parties the catering and everything and then you have the subset is always the guest actors that are doing the actual party that has

some sort of meta behind whatever's happening yeah like there was a party run by a bunch of fucking rich ass republicans in the last episode and yada yada. Right on. So really funny, easy 25-minute episodes. That rules. Yeah. I've watched the Halo adaptation. Oh, really? I guess Bruce's adaptation. How is that?

Yeah. I mean, I love Halo, so my eyes were glued to the screen. But man, I mean, we're sitting here going, will they, won't they make something good? It's like we're so spoiled when you go watch any other fantasy product.

How did they... The production, it's just, it's tough to get stuff to a level. You have to really hire the best people and have the money to pay them to do stuff on that level. And just not everyone can afford that. How'd they do Cortana?

How was that, Cortana? I loved Cortana, yeah. Yeah? Cortana was like show, or it was like game slash book Cortana I loved Cortana yeah yeah Cortana was like was like show or it was like game slash book Cortana for sure okay

Cortana was cool okay loved Cortana I gotta look into that I do yeah you should watch it if you

if you're we never talked about it before but if you're familiar with that lore at all you should just watch it because it's cool to be in that universe it's the universe is cool I'm a big halo 2 halo reach fan

really yeah yes this is my this is my favorite halo hold on oh yeah the new halos is is so good really so good i gotta i gotta charge up my power sword and get on it see i've been playing i gotta play some halo i've been playing a new game you've been playing i've been playing cities skyline. What have you been playing? I've been playing Cities Skyline. Have you ever heard of this game? Uh-uh. Oh, God. It is taking over my life, friends. It is a city planner game.

You basically make your own city, and it's so detailed. And you do commercial zoning, residential zoning, low and high density, industrial zoning. There are different parts of the map. Sounds like work. Oh, it's good, though. It's so good. You're like, I can't wait to get off of work go home put my feet up get a little vodka soda and go

to work it's really good it's I believe you so no stardew it's basically business stardew it's business stardew Valley. You're like, this farming is not enough. I need to move on to a new revolution.

I need a bigger fix. I need a bigger fix. We need an industrial revolution. Tap, tap, tap. This agriculture is not enough. Well, until Hot D comes out on August 21st, I'm just suffering. We've got, what, like two months, ten days.

Two months, ten days. I need that fix. I need that fix. i'm jonesing for a fix and game of thrones hot d unleashing the d within us within you give us the full d we can take it oh my god uh the dragon i guess what is give us bigger this up? Let's just keep talking about Halo. That's my sweet spot right now. Zach, what is the thing that you want to see on screen adapted from Princess and the Queen or from Fire and Blood from the many chapters? What is the thing you are looking forward to the most? I think it's cliche to say the tilt over the God's eye.

But I just really think that there's an opportunity to show us what the next decade of tv could look like and of action i think the game of thrones did a really good job in the meat of the series especially the stuff they did during season four um at the wall i think that the the dimension change from the way we were used to seeing the wall in season one season two season three and then some of the tracking shots that they did with it i think really was something that a lot of folks uh weren't ready for i know i wasn't and sometimes you try and you miss and they didn't miss on a show that we already loved so much they like ended up actually doing something that film had had a hard time doing for the longest time even like a

lot of the a lot of the futile and scaled uh action movies that we've seen before that um have done really cool jobs with stuff like things like helms deep um we all like troy but like no one really did anything that sexy and also uh industrious and ingenious that's true as as they did in in game of thrones they really did some pivotal stuff i think that has made film and tv which is basically film now um really blossom in a cool way and i think that they have the right material to do something new and awesome i hope that they're doing their homework and like doing what george did with what you were talking about with the with daenerys and and called drogo dying like i don't think that that's on accident it takes a lot of like care attention to detail to simplify such grand like references and homages in such succinct ways

and i think that that's really part of the recipe of making something sing like they could make it sing. And the source material is there. And so I want to see that. I think that that could be part of a climactic shift in how we see something at that scale and at that potential speed. And to be able to deliver it without it being corny at all, I think it's going to be a really big challenge and I want to see how they, how they handle that. What about you? The scale of the gods,

I especially, I think is going to look cool. Uh, I would say, I mean, that is the ultimate fan boy response to be fair, Zach, no offense.

I'm in it. That is some fan bullshit. I'm literally a fan boy. I'm a fan boy. I don't see, you know, like that's fine.'m in it i'm literally a fanboy i'm a fanboy i don't see you know like that's fine there's nothing wrong with being a fanboy that is a little fanboy of you but i respect that i uh i'm excited to see some of these locations through someone else's i would be cool step stones would be awesome old stones would be awesome i Seeing any of the places. Anything with stones in the name.

Yeah, anything with stones. Bye, Allie. Okay. But I'm excited to see characters, too. I'm excited to see Helena. Not excited for her end. I hope we get Aegon III as a boy-o. I really hope we get Aegon III's regency and the end of it. I think that would be a great way to end

the show. Hour of the Wolf. Allie. Black Allie. I want to see Black Allie. I want to see Sabatha. I want to see some of these awesome characters from the books. I want to see Rhaenys in her glory go out like a fucking badass. That's probably my fangirl one. I want to see Rhaenys go out. But I also really want

the twins. I want to see Rhaena and Bela, actually. That's who I also really want to see Rainey's go out. But I also really want the twins. I want to see Raina and Bela, actually. That's who I also really want to see thrive on this show, besides, you know, Moondancer's death. Ugh! You know what I said? None of us, neither of us just said blood and cheese. I don't want to see that, man.

That's so sad. You don't want to see it? Between that and Mailer getting ripped apart limb by limb, I don't want to see that. I just think with the bad come the good on TV shows, I think it could be at least like a heartbeat, our hearts would be beating. So I might feel something in this life.

Chloe looks sad. Well, I'm glad that you asked me to come on and talk to you about this. Thanks for coming on and hanging, Zach. Sorry, I'm a little rough around the edges. I like- No. It's gritty.

It's raw. It's going to be not exactly Red Wedding per se, but what was a horror in season two? Blackwater was crazy cool, but that's going to be season two. I mean, it's going to be a season two horror show and i can't wait to see it and like god i think the season one i can't wait to see the season one game of thrones outline come back like episode nine viserys dying dad dies you know the 10th episode some crazy fight and rebirth of dragon magic well there you go yeah i think some of that formula is going to really pay off but we're going to get a song called the dance

of the dragons and episode 10 of season one of hot d probably because that's how it's going to end right it's gonna be we're gonna get that set up so like how do you match the same scale well everything falls apart and it's like well now what yeah the rebuilding i mean that's how it's going to end, right? We're going to get that set up. So how do you match the same scale? Well, everything falls apart. And it's like, well, now what? Yeah, the rebuilding. I mean, that's part of why I'm so adamant here that Aegon has to have a moment or two. We have to see the Manderly effect on him.

We have to see Cregan. We have to see that because you can't just end a show like Rhaenyra got eaten. You have to end it with a little bit of hope. You know, everything was still bad at the end of season eight but like there was that little bit of hope that like the wolves will come again and that's what the hour of the wolf

is gonna do for the Targaryen show and everyone's gonna be really excited when the girl gets manipulated and groomed by all the people around her even though she's the rightful heir to the throne and she allows that to corrupt her and then at the very end she dies in a horrible way and then the starks show up to save the day and everyone's gonna watch the show hot d that that would be my complaint with why they're doing this

right i'm like this is the choice you could have waited like a decade jesus you disrespectful motherfuckers then the everyone's stark banner is going to come out again they had their stark banners flying off their porches and stuff at the end of sewing their banner come out again they're going to come out again the hour of the wolf they will come back i can't wait for dragons gonna be excited for dragons no starks fuck the starks we're here for dragons fam we're here for dragons and then the and then the starks later yeah i see i see where you're i actually don't even care about cregan like not trying to be a jerk i just don't care about cregan i don't know i guess i guess i don't really either i mean they're all dead

i'm more interested in the now but this is gonna be fun that's one of the things i'm curious about like how it's gonna stick with folks but. But, you know, we had the books available. I know they were unfinished. But they were out there for the first handful of seasons and no one cared. I think it has the potential to get really big again. Not as big. I don't think it's going to get as big, but I think really big.

I wish, because that was really fun. Sustainably big. I feel like we were all doing something together too. Yeah, every Sunday I felt connected, but I think it'll do that again. At least for the mega fans, and then I think it will draw a new crowd. I don't think anything will ever get as big as the original hype for Thrones, or

the existing and sustainable hype. Believe it or not, people do still talk about it. People do still talk about it every single day, against what the internet says. I don't know if it'll ever hit that peak, that height, but I do think it'll get pretty big for a bit. You're talking about hot D?

Yeah. You think it's going to get pretty big for a bit? I think so. Hot D? Hot D? I think we're going to get a really big D. It's going to be plump. It's going to be lively.

But I think when it's over, when it's done, when that D has spurt itself out and just run itself dry. Of dragon fire. Yeah. That D, when the D's empty.

I think it'll have been good. I don't think it'll, I think it'll be fine. I don't think it'll be bad. I do not think it'll go below fine. I think it'll be fine and better. And that is what be bad. I do not think it'll go below fine. I think it'll be fine and better. And that is what I'm setting my heart to. That is my official take.

It'll be fine and maybe better and maybe best. Let's do this again at some point when we are able. I don't want to say at the end of Hot D to be like, what did it do? I don't know what you would call it. What that D do? Cold D. Yeah, I don't know what the follow-up to. I don't even know what you're going to name this episode. Girl, what that it do? I don't know what you would call it. What that D do? Cold D. Yeah, I don't know what the follow-up to, I don't even know what you're going to name this episode.

Girl, what that D do? It's been really fun. Unleashing the D. Having a freestyle talk with you about anything, literally anything. Yeah. No plan. I've had a blast tonight.

Thanks for joining me, Zach. And if you do not remember Zach, if you're not quite caught up with our Sam-isodes yet, the end of our Sam episodes, Zach came on then. But Zach is from a quaint little podcast from around the corner that we like to call Game of Owns. Zach, do you want to tell everyone at home where to find Game of Owns? Yes, you can go to GameofOwns.com.

We've got all the episodes and stuff there. We've got episodes sorted if you want to find some a little bit more easier, like guests and things like that. And we're also Game of Owns on social media and Game of Owns on all your podcast apps. Just write that down. Yeah.

And keep an eye out because they have something really big coming. You guys have bigger than the D, bigger than the hottest D. You have the hottest G. The hottest d you have the hottest g the hottest g hottest g in the line you guys have george coming on soon george himself yep yep pretty excited about that i'm gonna just keep reading all of his books i wanted to talk to you about the armageddon rag but i guess i can talk to you about another time it's crazy i gotta read it song of Ice and Fire is basically it's basically

in Armageddon Rag. It's very strange. It's way too big of an explanation, but I've taken a bunch of screenshots as I've been reading because I don't want to read the signed copy. I didn't know it was signed. So anyway, don't listen to this, George, because I'm going to try to cool off you.

I don't want to ruin your signature. Okay. Well, until I read Armageddon Rag and until we watch the hot D, we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon. Love talking to you, Chloe. Hope you have a good rest of your night. And thanks, everyone.

Bye, everyone. you