Girls Gone Canon Cast - House of the Dragon: Unleash the D S3E4 - a post-mortem with Noah (SamanthaTarly)

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

Goodbye, season 3. You were brief, incredible, imperfect, and a source of joy. Join us in breaking down character arcs and themes with Noah (aka SamanthaTarly on Twitter), and what our hopes are for season 4 of HOTD. Questions also abound, such as: How will everything fit? Why is television so short nowadays? Will we the audience survive the deaths of all the characters? What's up with Aemond and Chloe's household? What do we call this part of the hit series 'Unleash the D' that happens after the season because it's not a primer anymore? Where to find Noah: Twitter - https://x.com/samanthatarly Wordpress - https://theshieldhall.wordpress.com/ Substack - https://thestain.substack.com/ "Modern Jazz Samba" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Hello, and welcome back to the hit series that critics are calling Unabashedly Real. It's Unleash the D. Season 3, episode 4 featuring our friend Noah, I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts. Wait, no. I am a special guest series regular here on Unleash the D, Eliana. And we are joined, yes, by a guest. Hello, I am the guest.

Hello, this is the guest. This is Noah. This is the guest. What's up, Noah? It's so crazy that it's been four years since you have been back on Girls Gun Cannon in four years. I was just a baby. You kind of work, a baby. I really was. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, well, Noah, what do you have to say for yourself?

No, I'm just kidding. What's happened in the last four years? Catch the viewers up. The entire three seasons of House of the Dragon have come out. in that space of time. Did it change who you are as a person? No. Do you find yourself transformed?

Yeah, you know what? Yes. I will say yes. Me too. Yeah, pretty much I have just been tweeting about House of the Dragon for the past four years, in a sense. Wow. In a sense. The time really flies when you're tweeting about House of the Dragon.

What else has even happened in my life? Like, I wrote a book, I guess. Wait. Whoa. I feel like that's pretty big. Tell us more about your book. Oh, no. That is a big deal.

It will never be published, but that's okay. Hey, don't say never because you know what? What if it's the basis of something crazy for you someday and it becomes a huge series and then we're doing a podcast about your work? So true. If you are a agent or publisher and you think my takes about House of the Dragon are in any way interesting, please publish my book that has nothing to do with House of the Dragon. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. If you're not following Noah on the internet, there are a couple places you can follow Noah. I follow Noah a couple places. Specifically, I follow Noah on Twitter or the artist formerly known as Twitter. X. We prefer Twitter. Samantha Tarley and great takes. A great person to be following during season. Also like a really good, like whenever I'm like, am I sane? And then I see Noah post something that I've been thinking. I go, oh, thank God.

I think. Oh, thank God, maybe. Yeah. So a great follow, a very sane follow, also an incredibly intelligent follow. And also, you've been writing on your substack, the stain.substack.com alive. I've seen some great posts. So if you're a film head, please head that way, too. Yes. I write about movies, sometimes TV, sometimes general culture on the old substack, the old newsletter. and I do have a couple of longer-length essays about A Song of Ice and Fire on my WordPress blog. I really wanted to bring back the old guard WordPress blog for Ace Woff meta.

But that's at the shieldhall.orgeper.com. But mostly, mostly I just tweet. It's so beautiful that you're doing that though still because thank you. Yeah. But you know what? That's all it ever was to be fair. To be fair. But like also it's really honorable to keep the word press alive because that is a beautiful era and it is dying because now you go on like A Swoff Reddit and it's just chat GPT essays. And I'm like, we didn't have chat GPT for our essays. Oh my God. That's so true. We actually did them. Yeah. We made them. We were in Google Docs outlining, tweeting and deeming our friends at 1am drinking boxes of wine saying, what do you think? And them going, what are you talking about? Like we.

We had to do it the hard way, so I respect that. We used to be a country. Yeah, I was just like, all right, good luck to me. Let's put it out there. And you just go and you do it. And I guess, yeah, the WordPress. Wow. Wow.

Or even like the blogspot. You know, George. Whoa. Or a blogger. I don't know. They're like kind of the same. Yeah. The LJ.

Yeah. George, even though not really, because he did move it off of LJ because. That was before my time. Yeah, that makes sense. You know what? I'm trying to get back into Tumblr, I think, because I've been thinking, like, in a big way. Because, like, I feel like it's a place you can just say stuff. And sometimes I'm just saying stuff.

I don't even know if I believe it. I just say stuff and, like, test it out, see how the words feel and the fingers and the mouth. So I'm like, I don't know, maybe I need to get back into my Tumblr in an unsurious but disciplined, unsurious way. It's a good vibe over there still. Yeah. Yeah. I miss it. I do miss it. That was kind of my favorite humble origin was the Tumblr in the WordPress and then the Reddit and the Twitter.

Yes. I feel like I like to sort of be a combination of all, those types of fan. Yeah. It's good to have. Yeah. You got range, you know. And exactly. I will say like, Scratch is the itch. My strong opinion is that you should all at least like, you should follow no on all of these things. dear listener, but you will be smarter for following also Noah's takes on Twitter regarding House of the Dragon. You will become smarter by reading those. I like legitimately think that. Wow. That's true. That's a big claim, but probably true. But like I feel smarter for reading those. So I'm just like, man. Yeah, it's it's really serious literary analysis sandwiched between talking about gay sex and shit posting.

Yuri. Yeah. Yeah. And Yuri. Yeah. Well, gay sex in both ways. Yeah. In general, I guess.

Yeah. All sense. It's all important. Lots of it. Lots of it. The show really lends to that. You know what? I really enjoy that.

And, you know, we'll jump into the actual third season. In a minute we are going to go through some quick comments and emails from the season that we didn't get to get to. because it was a chunky, thick, wonderful season, but I love that it, like, doesn't shy away from the passion of the sex without being overt always and, like, the romance and lingering, you know, lingering on a gloved finger hold compared to, you know, that kind of age of innocence, just the beauty, the tension,

the things that, like, you aren't allowed to say in society and the things that society pushes you to be and forms you into in the sight of it all and like how it delivers that. I am fond of you, House of the Dragon. I'm fond. I'm so excited you're here, Noah, because I love having a super fan, especially a fan of the season we just watched on during.

We're going to run into some emails. And, you know, for those of you at home, we are not just a House of the Dragon podcast. We podcast on a couple of other series, but most of the time we are podcasting on the main. Books, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. And we are finishing up the published books right now with Tyrion, the very last POV character. We're following from his very first chapter through his last published chapter. George, you have the opportunity to do something so funny

right now. So, Clash of Kings 1. That's next. Tierian, a Clash of Kings 1. We'll be returning with that. We have a couple of guests lined up for the rest of Tyrion. Stay tuned to hear more about that. And of course, on Patreon, we've been covering The Hunger Games, Eliana. Can you tell them what patrons in the Stranger Tier and Above have been listening to? Yeah, they've been listening to the Hunger Games. Patrons in the Strangers Tier and Above get access to our episodes where we talk about, we are actually getting ready to finish the entire Hunger Games trilogy. We were on our second to the last episode of, I mean, the three books that came out a while ago, but still ever so relevant. And then we are figuring out our plan for how we want to do the prequel

books, such as Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes and Sunrise on The Reaping, which is coming out soon in theater. It's very exciting. Many people in my life, actually, in real life, turns out are all excited about it, so good times. You love to see it. You love to see it. Yeah, I'm excited for that.

November, because we can tell you now what we're going to cover in November. We're going to return to our hit series, No One Ask for, Gossip Girls Gone Canon, where we only cover the Thanksgiving episodes of Gossip Girl. Well, we might release a Thanksgiving episode, so stay tuned, you never know. I think it's important to have a Thanksgiving episode, you know, that's so us. So us. All right. That's it for the rabble.

I think, you know, you know where to find us. If you're here, we hope you stay. We hope you come back. If not, we'll see you for Night of the Seven Kingdoms or for House of the Dragon or for some other special occasion. but till then let's jump into the emails from some of our friends at home like Fernando who said

this discussion was amazing my favorite points were for season two you said we should have had two more episodes and I agree absolutely like clearly we deserve more than that but I think I could settle for two uh Fernando thinks the season would have been better with the full 10

Darren of course should have been singing Avitas don't cry for me Tumbledin as we said and Gwain had some of the best character development in season three, and Ulf was the living example of hurt people, hurt people. And then Fernando dropped a bomb on me, I guess no pun intended, that dragons, what if they're colorblind, and they see everything like a thermal camera, Eliana,

in regards to your question. I think that's an interesting concept. About what dragons see? I think that's incredible, like night vision and thermal. Yeah. I'm here for it. I'm very fascinated by that. I think heat map would be

makes sense. It's logical. Yeah. Yeah. They'll never get to see the blue of the sky that they fly into. Is that what I'm hearing? Oh. Or maybe like they see, you know, they're so sensitive that they can like see the heat of the stars from far away.

Wow. No matter what time it is. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. How's that? How's that? So much to think about.

So much to think about. Thanks for. It was a great season with your comments. Appreciate it. It was. What are your thoughts on, like, no, I think you've also talked about, like, the pacing as well, a number of episodes during the season. Oh, yeah, no. I definitely agree with all points.

The fact that this season was only eight episodes really makes no sense. And is kind of the explanation I fall back on to every decision that I have any quibble with. I'm like, well, it's because of the episode count, which might not always be true. But I think that it was definitely a real problem in terms of how they structure things. I always want more content, and that's not always a healthy way to approach things. But I think especially because this season had to hit so many big set pieces and battles, there was just way less time to get into the sort of chamber drama meat and potatoes stuff that I really like and is honestly the reason why I like season two so much because it really pulls back on all those set pieces

and like even the big climax of the season is just two women in a room talking and I think that is kind of when the show is at its most genius and the battles are not as much what I enjoy about it. So yes, I definitely agree. I agree Ulf and Gwain are really the big hits of the season for me. It's all true. I can't, I can't argue either. That's pretty much Capitalism got us, vote, shot us right, right in the back of the head. God. Now they compromised away, two more for the end. I mean, that's my bigger question is like, season four is gonna be, it'll work, but it's gonna be thick. It's gonna be a lot like this one. I did feel the seat, right, think about it. It's gonna be thick. It's gonna be a big boy. Really pisses me off

because I find the ending like the best part of the dance and I think it could be 12. It could be 16. Could just keep going. Like I just want that slow unraveling, the sort of bleakness of it is really what stood out to me in the book. So I think it'll be fun. I don't know if it'll be in terms of structure, perfect. I also feel there's like that comp. We saw it with D&D's production as well, right?

With Game of Thrones where like the action turns to, you know, maybe more traditional and bro-y kind of TV and tries to capture a certain audience. And so there is kind of a schism where I see where they're trying to satisfy a wider audience, while also still remaining really authentic to being like the lesbian soap opera. For sure. Like there are two parts where I'm like, I see both parts of this and what they're trying to keep cohesive across all of it.

It's very fascinating. And it is going to be an interesting study in full. Like I watched the finale of season two today just to kind of feel something and see how I feel compared to the other episodes and see a lot of where like the character arcs from last season versus this season ended. and just kind of like feel the rhythm. And I do feel season four is probably going to have some of the great parts of season three and a lot of the setup pay off.

Yeah. But also maybe suffer from some of the same things season three had a few pensions too. So we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. We shall. And actually, like, I'll come back to this as well just because some interesting questions were raised. raised to me yesterday by various people who all like watch the show.

They also, you know, agree that they're not that moved by the battles. We're like, yeah, I don't know. It's cool, I guess. And for other parts. But yeah, we'll come back to that. Because first, I need to go over this, like, really insightful comment from our friend, Coach Pierre. This was a really great comment. I'm actually going to read it out of order so that you can, get the full effect of what I think are

interesting about it. Coach Pierre starts out with Tumbleton, Rumbleton, Fumbleton, also brings up things such as Stumbleton, Humbleton, Fun, Bulton, with an exclamation point there in the middle, grumbleton,

and I really loved especially Cumbleton and Numbleton. Oh, no. I don't like that. These I think were... I hate how you... did this.

Very interesting, interesting thoughts, Coach Pierre. I think you took something that was almost innocent and you made it terrible, Eliana. I didn't make it. Coach Pierre wrote Cumberton. And I was like, that's incredible. You put it before Numbleton. You know what you did.

Was there no Dumbledon? No, but I think, I think, that's a real misstep. Yeah. I think we were meant to all add on to this body of work that coach Pierre has put before us. So your Dumbledin is now part of the wider conversation. The canon. That has been brought up here.

It's very sage. Yes, indeed. Yeah, from the mouths of babes. Once more. All right, Coach Pierre, we appreciate it. That was just a whimsical little one that we got in the comments. That one got me. That one got me.

Our friend Reddust commented and said that they've been on a road trip the last few days and was riding in the back seat and saw the way that the stuff. setting sun was backing the mountains and said, hey, everyone, look left, meaning look right. And both of the other people in the car looked right because all three, they simultaneously forgot their left from their right. Eliana, I think that's for you. Yeah, I think so. But also, for your friend, you were sharing about how your other friend also, she struggles

with her left and her right. Sometimes things are hard. I don't know what to say. And I'm glad that Redis, like, agrees. We're not alone. Glad you have someone on your side, yeah. Glad you have someone on your side. Which side that is my right or my left?

No one can know. Who can really know? I also, so you paced this, but I actually saw it also when looking at our comments. This one was so funny. I even, like, read it a lot to my partner. This comes from Alpha Kady dash it, saying, me discussing ass off with my partner, like, Chloe said that. And he's like, who the fuck is Chloe? She is my podcast friend.

I love that. That's fun. That's very fun. Who the fuck is Chloe? I don't. Yeah, that's fair. Who the fuck isn't Chloe? How about that?

You know what? That's also fair. That's also fair. I feel like also kind of like very, maybe this is a Catholic thing, but I feel like it's like the end of church and I'm shaking hands with everybody. Like, yes, thank you for coming to the last episode of Hot D. Thank you. Yes.

You're very favored. Thank you, my friend. Thank you for commenting on the last episode for Hot D. Shaking hand. Go. Go. Be one. Be with the peace.

Yeah, it really is. Thunderclapp sent us something kind of fun. He compared a bunch of characters to a bunch of the seven. Also like the seven of the seven, you know, of the faces of the god. If that wasn't clear, sorry. I'm speaking for clarity. he compared Hugh the Hammer to the Smith of course Bayla to the maiden

Adam to the warrior Damon to the father Reneira to the mother Ulf the white or the white dun dun dun dun to the stranger and Helena to the crone and also had a caveat of like he knows that Helena's not on team black

but her dragon's in the dragon pit prophetic we light the way he feels there's a lot of reasons so I liked that I thought that was very fun and then he also sent a horse color chart. So this is an incredible color chart, basically, with horses of the color, with the name for the color and horse that they are. You know, if you're reading and you're like a chestnut, blah, blah, blah, what they look

like. So it's all labeled. I'm like sticky noting that in the email. It's very helpful. Now, Eliana and I will be able to reference it, you know, that's pretty good. Indeed. It was actually really cool. I thought I was like, oh, that's neat.

That was a good, good waste of time in paint during your photo editing. Like nothing's like a good little graphic arts moment on your computer. You guys didn't go to. Hors camp as kids? I did not get to. I wanted to. I wanted to so bad. It was nice except I went two years in a row and the second year, my original horse was gone.

No. I was like, where's Maple? And they were like, she went to a different farm. Do you think that's true? No. She definitely died. Yeah, I was just like so maple. That's sad.

RAPE Maple. I'm sorry. That's sad. I'm like a little jarred. Then I stopped going. That happened to my friend Sonsa Stark one time. Oh, yeah. The dog?

Yeah. Yeah. After we have you as a guest, Noah, we're going to have bad bunnies. dog, Sonsa Stark. Oh, great. On the podcast. On for Tyrion. Yeah.

Coming for the Tyrion episodes, you know, a real pro when it comes to Tyrion Lancaster. Honestly. Yeah. Uh, man. You know, that also almost happened to my friend Sheep Steeler, you know? Hmm. He almost had to go to a different farm upstate.

Dang. But he got out. He got out. Good for him. Good for him. Thanks, Thunderclap. Yeah, Sheepstealer. I actually was.

very surprised by sheepstealer and like how, I don't know, A, how emotionally attached I became to sheepstealer this season so quickly. I very much wanted good things for sheepstealer and I very much see the direction of that plot and that arc. I see what they're doing. I know kind of where it's going ish or where it could go. But I really didn't like see sheepstealer getting beat up. That was very tragic. That was very terrible. It was upsetting. It was very mean. Yeah. I did feel repulsed physically a little bit. Yeah. I do care more about the dragons than I should. I know. I've never really been a big dragon person. Like that's just not my, it's not my bag. Not a dragon person. No, I was not a dragon kid. But I really appreciate how the show makes them just animals.

like semi-wild, trained, but they are like living beings with their, who do their own thing. It's just like in horse camp. Whoa. Sometimes the horse, sometimes when I was just learning how to ride around, you know, the like gated area, like the horse that I was on was a former circus horse. Oh, okay. And without me doing anything, she just started galloping at full speed. Oh. And I started screaming and freaking out.

because I was like 10 years old. And sometimes like a dragon will just do that. And it's just how it works when you're working with live animals. Yeah, there's that great kind of argument that everyone in universe and out of the universe, no shade, no shade on God. But there's that great argument. People are like, oh, why didn't they just control their dragon or oh, like, but-a-ba? Or the dragon, like, why didn't they claim that dragon before the other dragon?

person. Even in universe there's some of this logic. Like, I don't think you get a choice really. Like, I think the dragon's choice is usually stronger than yours, unless the bond is deep enough. Because this season we saw

a lot of dragons make a lot of choices against the will of their riders. Yeah. If the bond was, like, really direct and controllable, like, it just wouldn't be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. It's almost, it's almost,

In a way, like, so they are intelligent to an extent, right, the dragons. And it's kind of like a metaphor, you know, you can't really control the dragons and what they, you can't really control them, can't really control other people much as we try to. And I think that you see people constantly trying to exert their will onto others. And that's very much a, you know, an ongoing issue. We're seeing reflected both in like Rainierra's rule throughout the season or attempts at it. Mm-hmm. And with the dragons.

and then also even Ormond realizing, wait, no, I can't control my dragons either Ulf or Darren or those other people going around. The illusion. Yeah. The illusion of power and holding it and like controlling it and that illusion and symbol of the Targaryens and their dragons and their sigil being that very dragon, that that very power only they can wield. And then like that we're seeing real time that degradation as they completely slip. with that illusion that they don't have all of the power It's a sword without a help, baby

Oh yeah Happened to my friend Stannis one time Indeed Poor guy He's got it rough So people did bring up And because they had never read the books They were like

Seeing that they expected to see sheepstealer Again at the end right Because you get this sort of revival-esque moment With Sunfire who seems dead They're like I know sheepsealer's not dead like, why was there not another senior sheepstealer? And I had to explain to them.

We've combined two different characters. And so it's... I was surprised at the lack of... We kind of don't know what's going on. I felt that, yeah? I feel that there was a very lack of season three plot continuity after that. Like, yeah, we saw Raina, sheepsealers gone. I guess we'll pick it up season four and it'll co-end...

side with Damon's plot in ways. They will be moving in ways that are unbeknownst to us at this moment. But I just thought we'd see something about them at the end. Anything. I thought anything. Because it's such a plot that they bent so many things to do and execute. I don't know. Yeah, it's really.

I was kind of disappointed. It's one of my bug bears of the season is the Raina stuff. Because you can see the threads of why. They chose to do what they did. But it just doesn't come together in the end. And the amount of work they had to do to, you know, massage it into that plot is considerable. It just didn't pay off for them the way I think they wanted it to, which is pretty much of omer. Which is so funny compared to, like, Daron, because I feel so surprised and, like, taken by total utter shock.

Yeah. The Daron plot worked 120% for me. I was invested. I was like, you know what? I'm glad they didn't mention him. I didn't have time for him until now. And amazing. Incredible. Great anchor. Great way to play with Gwain and Ormond with all of the themes that came from the exit of Kristen Cole. God bless America, but do miss him at the same time. You know, like, that was a perfect balance for me. Somehow they nailed that. Really nailed it. I thought it was going to be something that really bugged me. I was, charmed, tragically charmed. I have a theory about characters and why they work and don't work in terms of House of the Dragon, a stork of ice and fire, even Game of Thrones. Like, I think the original series has so many characters that have very strong, distinct personalities. Like,

you have Tyrion, you have, like, Circe is, like, so big, Robert Barathean, even. Like, you have these psychologically normal characters, but you also have these strong, almost tropey characters that they get to bounce off. You know, like Alar Thorne is this very like stereotypical kind of character, but it doesn't come off as too much because you bounce it off with John, who's like very normal, and John bounces off Sam, who has this very distinct personality from everyone around him. And I think in the approach to House of the Dragon, because Fire and Bloods, characters are so tropey and strong in that way, they wanted to avoid it and make sure that the characters had more of a psychological realness to them. And I think that worked to an extent

with many of the characters, but in doing so, some of the characters really suffer. I think Bail is a really good example of this in the book. She has this very fiery aria personality where she's just like bubbly and adventurous and flirty and she has this bigness to her character that really stood out to me. But in the show, she's just kind of like normal girl, regular, a little fiery, but not too much. And I think sometimes they were just scared to have characters be big or embody any sort of trope.

But the thing about the Tumbledin plot is that it really works because of Ormond. He has this real bigness to him, but it doesn't come off as off-putting because you've got Darren and Gwain to sort of bounce off him. And I think the show could really do with giving its characters more distinct, loud personalities. Yeah. And the way that they group them, I think it does better with those smaller ensembles and growing kind of those personalities and those things back and forth. So, I mean, really in the latter half of the season, I actually felt like we were finally getting somewhere into having some sort of plot and something for Bayla, right? Yes. Eliana talked a lot about, you know, kind of almost like Sansa, who was stationed to become queen and was doing so much at court to understand her position and kind of grow into being a teenage girl, let alone becoming maybe queen and then having that ripped from her as well as, you know, her entire family. And so Bayla also kind of suffering that, what that would look like and how that would feel for her,

and then bringing her into kind of that smaller Valerian ensemble with her uncles and her grandfather, uncles, I cringe, with her uncles. Like bringing that in started to bring out some of those characters going back and forth and some of those personalities. So I do think it shines a lot more when it's given ensemble time. I think there's a lot of great one-on-one scenes where character growth is good and you can kind of have the conversations. But I feel like just a couple more folks in small rooms. And it goes back to kind of what we've been talking about with the political, like the political stuff and the talking in rooms and the intrigue and the diplomacy and the politics. That stuff actually really killed it this season. Yeah.

It was really good. Totally agree. The Rainier episode is just like, it's genius. Yeah. Chef's Kiss. I mean, everything that's. I've done with Rainira this season, I just really love. I think it really captures like what I found in the small things I found interesting about Renira in the book. That's sort of downward spiral,

but also rooting it in that psychological realness, making it totally believable that, you know, she would go a little, go a little loopy. In the deep end. And yeah, it's, I saw someone describe the Dance of the Dragons as like watching Reneira die over all four seasons. Like that's what we're doing. And I think they've just done a really, really good job with everything. I think her personality's really strong. I think her arc makes total sense. Yeah. It's really well done, especially like, I think there was a lot of fan dissent on in season two. Renira's not doing anything. She's not, you know, saying go to war. She's not doing this. Yeah. And I think when you pull out to the abstract, like, I think that's way better in the long run. I don't think

you could have her snap earlier in life. And I think the pacing works really well for her. I think it was well built up. And I think there's so much from season two on rewatch, even just in the finale where you have a couple moments where she tells all of the would be dragon riders in the pit, the seeds that if you survive here, you will be transformed if you claim a dragon. And you have Helena saying to her, well, you have six dragons now. Are you not transformed? You have Alfred Broome in season two saying, we need a king. You have everyone in season two opposition of Rainira saying, well, we need a king.

We need a king. So by the end of season three, Renira realizes she must be a king. Exactly. And of course, the acting from Emma Darcy is just, it's a triumph. Oh, they're amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I do wish, like, I think this is another thing, right?

Where we're always like, I wish there's more time. I do wish we had like more time and we could like sit more with like, I think that the transformation makes sense, right? And I just wish we could sit more with it and like see really how like those workings are going. And I think they've done a good job of showing how it is like gradual and it progresses from the Rhinera we have at the start of the season. right? The Rainier that we have at the start of season two and how we get here, just wish there were always like a little bit more time. To your point, like I do feel now in retrospect, having a little more of season one, either post jump or before post jump of Renira. Season one, I would say, is probably the weakest Reneer for me because of the jumps in abstract now just for the whole show. Right? Like season two, season three, I very much understand.

who Rainira is and there are things from her youth and also from right when she, you know, between what we missed when she's actually grown and had the children that like I feel we have to imply because of it. And I think that's fine. I have an imagination. So I can do whatever I want. But there's just stuff I would have liked to see because now in the direction of her arc, I understand, yeah, she was always proud.

She was always proud in vain. Why not? Why wouldn't she? How not? How not? Because, you know, I mean, she's the fucking heir to the throne and she has a dragon. Like, she controls a dragon, quote unquote, controls, quote unquote. How could you not be proud? How could you not be a little vain? Also very wealthy. Also, you know, the VIP family of the whole realm. Like, what? Of course. That's just how they make them. That's the stock. They come out that way. But I would have wanted more of that. You know, I would have wanted to understand the choices. Hear more of her on Dragonstone when she was young, rule. you know, refusing to go to court. Yeah. I like that we get to imagine it, but I also hate that we have to imagine it.

I would have like maybe one or two more in there just to add to that. Because also with pacing, now we're at war. You don't get to have as much of that. Now the things have to be very focused on the direction of the war and the plot surrounding it. And it's all about action and less about that internal inaction, which we could have seen. That's so fair. To your point regarding, like, the show works better when the character, they lean into having those characters and like giving them that really strong personality,

letting them be a little tropey, letting them be like even a little camp, if you will. I think that is part of why so many people found themselves gravitating to like Tom Glencarnie's performance because I think that is a character that they started leading into more with like let's be camp, let's be tropes, like let's let this character be a little larger than life. And I think they've actually done something like really interesting with Agon. I, like, some people find themselves rooting for him. I don't think you're supposed to, but I think you're supposed to be compelled by, like, this character, because they actually didn't do, people were saying, oh, they're going to redeem him.

He does not seem to me in any way, like, redeemed, right? He's just more, more of that, right? And to what you're saying, Chloe, I'm like, are you not transformed? They did that perfectly with, they bring back sunfire with Agon, and you see it in that moment. You're like, well, yeah, sure, you are going to act a little different now that you have a drag. and you can go burn this entire army. Like, it's a very great way of showing how that looks in real time. Yeah.

Like, is the thing you're seeking not power? Is that not what this is about? What are you seeking and why are you seeking it then? Yeah. And that's where it be, like, when people talk about madness with Targaryans, I'm not thinking personally that they talk about it in the exact way. But that is, is that not madness when you get there? Like Reneera said, why am I doing this?

Why am I going to sit on this throne of swords when the very reason I was doing it, the boys that kept me going are now slain dead, is the blood of children? Why I'm doing it? Why am I doing it? And then everyone's just dying and being consumed around you and turning to dust. And the dragons are just fighting. And the power is bleat. I love House of the Dragon.

Oh, my God. So good. Our civilization is collapsing. Did you guys want to watch House the Dred? No, I'm just kidding. You guys want to watch right now? I can put it on behind me. You can put it on behind you.

Damn, I kind of do want to watch right now. Yeah. Yeah. You all in the mood for House of Dress. What are your thoughts on like, so I think I've seen you say that like, I know Amund is like a big driver in Chloe's household. Amund is maybe Chloe's household's like reason for living. I don't know.

Like everyone in that household. Whereas for you like initially it wasn't. as a compelling of a storyline, right? And this is a character that we've seen go through also, I think, very much an arc come out very differently beginning of season three to where he's at the end of it, especially in contrast to, like, Agen's character. So what are your thoughts on him, like, their dynamic in the family? And how have you transformed in regards to Aymond?

I don't know. So the thing about Amund is that every time he comes on screen, I start laughing uncontrollably. I don't think that's wrong. That's part of it. Yeah, that's supposed to happen. But I also don't really give a gaff about Avand, unfortunately. No. He's just never been a character that has animated me.

I don't know if that's just because the mom-son side of Freudian stuff is just, not compelling to me or I don't really get it. I find him hilarious. I love Alice. So every time she's on screen, I'm happy. I'm happy every time he's on screen. Don't get me wrong. But I find his inner turmoil completely uninteresting.

Did you watch Battlestar Galactica? No. It's okay. I also never finished it. As we've been saying before you're talking. Um, okay, because I was going to compare him. In Battlestar Galactica, there is a character named Gaius Balter. And he is pathetic.

He is a poor baby Meow Meow. He literally does it for the pussy. Like, at one point, he, like, there's a beautiful woman that he is succumbed in his passion for and makes terrible mistakes, mostly driven by her at some points, but also mostly driven by him being a poor baby Meow Meow who's so self-obsessed and evil. And he's just like a pathetic worm. And I really, really cherish that in a character. That's something I love pathetic men. I hope everyone hearing this right now listening is hearing this and knows. I really love pathetic men.

Subliminal message and you just hear like the buzzing in a ring and it's like Patreon. Notcom slash Girls Gone Cannon. We love pathetic. No, Gaius Baltar is a pathetic man. Amon Targaryen? Pathetic. Pathetic man consumed by his rage and by his, you know, mommy issues and his eyes. eyeball issues. Also, he was wrong, though. Like, it isn't probably right to take out a kid's eye.

Yeah, that's a suck. Of course, he's going to be consumed by that. Yeah, that was terrible. I am team green on that one. So write that one down, team greeners. Jotted in your notebooks. But, you know, he's like pathetic. He never grew out of that, though, right? Like, he had that take. He never grew from that. He stayed infantile and pathetic in that so much so that you see him, like, throughout his whole life. And like, Helena narrates when she talks about siblings, He has coveted everything his entire life, his brother's wife, which is his sister, his brother's crown, his brother's place, all because he felt that it was unfair. And instead of actually going out and making something of it, he was a pathetic little bitch second son. And you know what?

I love him for that. He's so pathetic, and I fine with that. I just like a pathetic character. That makes sense. I think in terms of pathetic boys, Agon, is just a little bit more interesting to me. but I totally get, like, the vision of Aymond as sort of like a cosplaying child. That is definitely a good read. So I like that.

I did find all the, like, Allison Aymond stuff, like, definitely a real victim of the episode structure. Yeah. Again, the mom, son stuff is just, like, not my bag. I think to a lot of people came off as a bit goofy. I don't think it came off as goofy because I think there's a lot in. a song of ice and fire that's like similar in terms of like a really bold weird move but it's just I don't know I love Allison she's obviously my girl forever and I do enjoy that this season they kind of flipped expectations I definitely went in expecting the sort of queen and chains

like she's going to be in the dungeon and there's going to be weird sex in the dungeon sort of Punished, punished, alacent vibes, but I found it genuinely interesting that, like, no, she's not. They actually do care for each other and, like, understand each other's situations enough that it's really not necessary. I don't know. I like that. Like, why would she be upset when she's in chains? She's been in chains all her life. It's just kind of the backdrops changed.

But then the sort of ending part with Amund kind of felt like it was too fast to work. Yeah, it's interesting because, like, I don't know if it was you or like someone else just like talking about it of like thinking about how Allison's storyline it is kind of leading to, you know, the deaths of all her children, right? And like, I think when you think about like the trajectory of her character, in season one, Renice is saying to her like, you know, you're building this cage around yourself and gradually in the, in some ways, like, Alicent is... I don't know that she's, like, breaking that cage, but she is breaking the things that were supposed to define her in terms of, like, motherhood, right? If all of her children die, if she plays a hand, gradually and getting there,

like, suddenly you're left with, who are you? You're not the queen. You're not a wife. You're not a mother. And it becomes, like, this question of, like, who are you as a person when you are not defined by your... all these other parts of like the gender and the roles that you've been raised to play constantly. And I'm just like, I don't know. I don't, I'm not sure who we will see Alison B.

at the end of the series, but I guess that's part of the question. I understand people find her arc a bit like repetitive in terms of like she sacrifices her children. She kills her children. And it gets more direct and more direct each time until she's literally feeding Amund poison. I do kind of assume she will be at least somewhat involved in Agon's poisoning as well, even though I've long been a Laris poisons Agon truther. It could be two things, I think. It could be two things.

It could be two. Yeah. I feel like they probably have to come up with it together, you know? Yeah. Oh, man, I'm so excited for them to interact again. Yeah. Yeah. Bring them back together is amazing.

They really eat a scene together, honestly. But yeah, like Allison's arc is really. that, like, how much would you sacrifice to be free? That is kind of just, like, the point of the show is, like, what would you sacrifice that you love so much that the sun would rise again from succession, et cetera. But, like, she doesn't even love her kids that much. Like, there is obviously a, let's be, let's be frank, there is obviously a bond there, but it has been perverted by the way that those kids were really forced into her, forced out of her. She was really forced to be a mother at two young and age. Like, psychologically, it's, it's very compelling.

The strangled relationship she has with her kids. And I think that really comes out on screen. But yeah, I don't know. The whole hair and all thing just feels a bit like clumsy in terms of execution. But I think the idea of it totally tracks. Yeah, I really love. I mean, there's something with like Jamie and Circe, right? And like Jamie never being able to emotionally connect with those children, you know, because they're not ever allowed to be his. They've never been allowed to be his. And like for her, yes, they were her children, but they never belonged to her. They belong to the throne because everything belongs to that throne, right? That throne craves blood. It craves blood to sit upon it, blood to feast for it, like all of it. And knowing that,

like, how could you let yourself get close to that? Especially knowing what they represent, that they might die. Um, I liked the way we really surface. through that. And from a whole and like from an outside perspective, I like the beats and ideas, but I don't love how they were all executed. I think starting the season was too abrupt coming off of the end of the finale where she had just left being told, you know, you're going to have to kill your kids. That is, that's the deal, lady. Going to have to kill the kids. They got to die. All of them. They got to die. And then season four is Reneera making concessions to that over and over again for Allison repeatedly making compromises to Allison as a prisoner who is not delivered on her deliverables

like she was supposed to. She's not meeting KPIs in Kings Landing. That is for sure. So like, she's not delivering and yet Reneura makes concession after concession after concession. Well, now she's going to come back. Agin's alive alive with his dragon. Amund is not dead. Uh-oh. Oops. And the only kid you do kind of like. dead. The other one, you're not seeing that kid again. So like, she's in a very precarious position. I would love to see how this translates to season four. I think some of what you expected to see, Noah, I think now we might see that season four, right? Because, uh-oh, it's Divorce Town. She's going in the damn dungeon. It's dungeon sex time. It's literally dungeon sex time. Like,

I... Daddy's not happy, kitten. You know what I mean? Daddy's not happy. In that sense, I actually appreciate that they held off this season just to be like every single thing must snap for that to happen. Yeah. Because she does like panic through the entire Kings Landing through the keep, through the Red Keep to like figure out how the fuck am I going to somehow let Rainier get this place at great cost to herself. And again, a lot of the very like the subtext, the more minute beats like that are underneath that we're not seeing, right? The smaller beats, I love the themes. I love what they're doing and sometimes it doesn't translate up into the bigger beats they're trying to pull off. I like that they meander a little bit. I like that we get like Allison's entire, you know,

big conflict, her internal conflict of like Darren and fake Darren and like killing my kid, not killing my kid and, you know, doing whatever for Renira or not. But she then severs the cord with pretty much every kid from season to episode eight. I had to remember what the last one was. Season 2, episode 8 through season 3 episode 8. Like, she severs every single chord with all of them. Yeah. She got nothing. It's pretty good.

She should be on a beach with some red wine and no kids. Oh, Allison. Just thinking about season four is just like sad. Yeah. Especially with their own. It's sad. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

The last one dying. He's so little. He's so little. He's. He's such a. lad. He's such a good boy. He's so good. Gwain's going to be so sad when he's dead. No. That's his son. Not that. Or brother. Anything but Gwayne being sad. Yeah. Gwain suffered so much. Yeah. He lost his lover. He lost his son. Everything they did with Gwain. Oh, incredible.

What a triumph of television. It's like one of those things that could only happen in TV. A character, like, and a performance being so strong that it just kind of starts taking over the show in a really compelling way. Yeah, end of season two. I was like, I don't know. I don't really care for Gwen, whatever. And then this season, I was like, yo, Gwayne, though. It's like if Gwain dies, I'm killing everyone in this room and then myself.

Everyone, I'm investing in Gwain and Ulf. Like, my stocks are up on them. I have invested, you know? Yeah, I'm holding out because they're going to give us the best performances. Like, that's what we have. It's, yeah. have. It's so good. I'm still waiting for my Hugh pay off though. I enjoyed Dumbledon. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. It seemed like they were going somewhere when he and his wife had that

conflict. I was like, that is good. And then it just kind of went nowhere. I guess like they didn't need Hugh. They're going to do it, I guess, like next season. But I feel like, I don't know, does it hit as hard when I wait two years for it? You know? The evergreen question I literally don't care about your man pain Like I literally don't care Yeah I just I'm looking for it to hit

Yeah Oofs was great Oof was so good And so consistent too Really ties into like the themes of the season And the show Of being You know considered just a body

Yeah To be used Which I think echoes through this season in terms of being a season that is very concerned with like sexual abuse, child abuse, and the sort of marriage of those themes with the themes of war and how war can also be an environment of sexual abuse, of child abuse, of coercive masculinity through violence, which we see with Daron, this sort of like high tower abuse nexus with, with,

Ormond has this really sort of dark implication. You know, obviously it's not textual that there's any, like, sexual abuse going on there. I think there are sort of lines that carry weight in terms of a reading of that, especially in regards to, like, Ormond and Gwain's relationship, which is very odd. And in a sense, like, I just think it's really smart of them to carry this link of how sexual abuse can factor into war and how both war and like sexual abuse and gendering children all depends on like reducing people to just bodies that can be manipulated as as you wish. Yeah. It was really effective just the way that we pulled from the subplot with Darren and then pulled out to the wider battlements and the children and the children peeing their

pants and crying and shaking. Also, I was like, in my head, I immediately thought of you, Noah. I hope you understand that. Like, not in a weird way that I was like, as the children were like weeping on the battlements, I'm like, Noah is going to watch this and be like, oh, my God, they did it. They did a swath. I was like, holy crap, this is Noah right here. It really reminded me of weirdly like the battle with the thins at the wall.

Oh, yeah. Which is also like how. old as John during that 15 and all his buddies. They're just teenagers in a big scary fight. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like that image is, is the show, is the series. That's a cycle. It's the cycle. The cycles are cycling. That is the literal cycle. Yeah, they are literally cycling. And then, like, we talked a little bit prior, you know, in past episodes, kind of compared the dynamic to, like, Ormond as this Uron character for his family. Right, completely the Uron character and Gwain being, you know, one of the brothers, the Yuri or even the Aaron, right, is who suffered maybe at Ormond before protecting Daron from that and doing everything he kind of do so is really interesting. So there are other characters, of course, like Ramsey, etc.

But the control, the utter control of Daron's body and the way that we also like kind of start the season with Jace and for him trying to find. some sort of path of his own, right? Yeah. And you even see him kind of like in the season finale in season two, reading down Ulth, right? He's the first gatekeeper before Ulf then deals with upper management, which it turns out you don't want to deal with upper management. I'd go back to taking Jace, you know?

But Jase kind of like reads him down and reasserts who he is and you see that cycle start, right? You start that season with that and then you end it just like how Jace saw and the last season that he was going to be responsible for all of this. Daron now is responsible for all of these people for what happens to them. For everything. Yeah. With no choice.

The cycle. Even for Jace to exert any agency, he has to control his mother's body, lock her away. Yeah. She learns it every single episode to rule she must be a king. Yeah. So you can't you have just like run away with the car like a normal fucking teenager without locking your mom in the room with your dragon. Aw, Jace.

Rip. Rip. Poor baby meow. Talk about a poor baby meow. He was so normal. He really was. So normal. He almost had a personality.

Actually, you know what I liked was the personality that was emerging, like, was bratty. That's true. It was kind of a brat. It was kind of a little shit, actually. A spoiled little shit had. I appreciated it, though. Like, more of that. Yeah.

It was very late. Yeah, I actually really, when he died, I was sad. I was more sad about the dragon. But, like, I was sad. but also I was like, yeah, you were kind of acting like a shithead. He was kind of giving book one John. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. In that way. That's what you're supposed to do. It even made me think of the age that they are, you know? Yeah. It even makes me think of like Amon, Jeharis's son, dying, getting, I was thinking of him, like, getting hit by the mirish crossbows and, or the bolts. And, you know, his death and how in the histories, you know, a Targaryan prince probably was a little shit. headbrat.

Like, do you think Aiman, do you think any of them were that great to be around, IRL? Uh, no. They're all kind of drama queens. Well, not like Della. Gale. Yeah, that's true.

Well, yeah. Miguel. Yeah, they seem semi-adjusted. Shout out Miguel. Miguel. I was just, I just think it's funny because I was like, I was thinking, about Bella, Baylon. I was like, their names basically mean dance, you know?

Like, like, by lar. In Espaniel Yeah Balamos Let the rhythm take you We'll be balamos Okay that's Enrique A different Targarian

Enrique Targaryen Oh of course So Laris Agon of course Was fabulous It was a very fabulous Little travelogue I know it's dear to you Noah

Please tell us your feelings On this one Because I know this one's so dear to you Look I just think Obviously they are extremely funny as a pair. I love that they have some kind of weird genuine connection. And Laris genuinely does seem to have love for Aegon in whatever form that may be. And I saw someone actually raise a really interesting point, which is that their little travelogue was very

Brienne and Jamie. So you've got this like a bit pompous, like self-obsessed, rich, you know, air semi-royal, at least, who has been recently disabled, being sort of taken care of and taken around by this other marginalized figure around the Riverlands, you know, and then sometimes there's a third guy there. And then Agan's going to come back, find Larry's, and be like, I dreamed of you. Oh, yo, that would be actually sick if he does come back and save him. I'm not sure, like, what context that would be in, but it would be interesting.

I'm either. It would be so beautiful, though, if he did, I dreamed of you. Oh my god, what if he literally does and he wakes up and he mounts sunfire and he, hmm. But what I really like that what I really like about this plot line is that like it kind of reveals that like Laris does not want to crown Agon at all. Mm-hmm. Like obviously. He is looking at him as coin. Yeah. There's sort of the implication that like they'll go to Bravo's and just wait it out for a few years while everyone else kind of kills each other. and then swoop back in. But does he really want that? Or does he just want to go to Bravo's and hang and have Aegon depending on him? Yeah.

We talked a lot about it as Sansa and Littlefinger, too. It's very Sansa finger going on, right? You've got Laris as Littlefinger, which we don't need to go into, obviously, the world has. And then Agan is the Sonsa that spirited away. And, yeah, kept under Lary's hand. It does remind me a bit of like varies to spiriting away Targary and Claimants and et cetera. Yeah. Absolutely.

And then also, yeah, coming back, like what he now is separated. I was a little on rewatch. I was a little disappointed about the whole Larry's left auto somehow. And we just kind of glossed over. Like we saw the scene. We saw in the season two, episode eight finale montage where HBO is legally obligated to have a montage. this with montage music and you've seen every scene reminding you where the whole season is ending the swooping dragon the traveling armies oh god here they go remains playing his song so during

that that whole thing they had of course like the reminder of auto in a cage somewhere no one knows where and then he just shows up oh yeah larry's left you a gift so great we got like one thing from larry's reminding us oh i can play both sides i can be kind of mysterious. But to me, I don't think that's going to be played up enough for that both sidesing. It felt kind of just like, I don't know, on rewatch. Since I've been rewatching, I just, okay. He's so random.

Like, remember Laris just kind of does random stuff? Like a cat with a bird in its mouth? Like he kills his dad and brother for reasons. For vengeance question mark. It would be nice to have more of that. Yeah, it's very quirky turkey. That was never really explored. Especially because he really didn't seem to hate

His brother and dad And like, yes, it was because Allison was like, you know, take care of them And then she was like, oh my God, I meant like buy them in bed and breakfast for a couple nights What the fuck? But and that was good, but I just wanted some consistency there. I like the route we've taken. I'm just, where's the both sides? Like, do we need him to have been the auto?

I don't know. That one didn't work for me on rewatch. I like the auto being their symbixt. I like the Otto being there symbolically, but not an action. Yeah, I don't know. I agree. But I also think season four is really going to be Laris's season. Yeah.

Like obviously this season, him and Agon are kind of like the Blowjaw Brothers doing whatever for a while. Yeah, literally. Which is very fun and obviously is like a big beast dance thing. And also you get to explore like these former war zones and like the way the common folk are doing stuff. And it's very revealing for Agon's character on how he reacts to it. And it's also always funny. So you can't count that out. TV is fun.

Good brevity. Good brevity. It does have good lightness to it in the plot to put next to things and kind of even out the episodes when they get a little too dark. Oh, for sure. They do a great job of that. They're the team that has to uphold that. That's been old. Yeah.

But I think it was good. I am just excited for Laris to storm into season four and steal it by the end. I mean, you can only go up right now for him, right? Like, as far as placement and number, they just killed a bunch of people. Like, Larry's is all the way to the top, baby. He really's not. He really wanted to go on spring break, though. Yeah.

He was so excited. He's like, I'm not going home. If he wanted to crown Agon and take advantage of that, he obviously would have agreed with the Lannisport proposition that Thailand gives. Because like, that makes sense. But he actually doesn't want that. He wants to like take care of Agon, make sure he's psychologically ready. Or maybe not even crown him at all.

Just like live with him and commit phantom thread stuff on him every day. for his own pleasure. Interesting when you think about that. You think about like Alice having Amon. Oh yeah, no, no. In some aspects. That is so well paralleled. They have their little pets.

Oh, it's a family thing. Quote unquote, a family thing. No, it's not. Apparently. I find that very fascinating. They're being kept. Yeah, it is interesting because he can cause less trouble when he's kept.

But yeah, Larry's is gone now. So I think you're right. He's going to go find some mischief to get into before he, and maybe he's a party that's meddling in Kings Landing in boosting the, the riot status, inbound riot. I mean, maybe he should also do that. I'd be curious if he ever goes back to Harren Hall, because that is, like, technically his seat.

I desperately want him and Alice to have a conversation. Oh, that'd be fun. Yeah. Like, he never mentioned her. I really do appreciate the amount they're just, like, they're just letting people talk in this show that never have. I actually don't mind that. I kind of find it fascinating. I'm like, yeah, what would they say? That was kind of the best part of like late Game of Thrones, if it had had any good parts, was just like random conversations between people who had never

interacted. Yeah, like a Tyrion Danny scene, yeah, the dialogue would be garbage, but I'd be fascinated. I'd be like, okay, I'm gripped. Get your Emmy and they never did. Yeah. Yeah. What do you all think, like, so I actually like you, all of us here on this call know what we think could happen in season four because we have read the books. We have things that we hope will happen in season four that like I'm going to be real. I'm probably never going to get. But like I'm going to hope against hope that it happens. But fascinatingly, you know, yesterday I was speaking with people and some of them were like,

I just like don't really know like what are they even going to put in the next season. and what can they even, like, say or do? Like, what is there even, like, to cover? Because I think that they feel as though it's just becoming, like, much more battles. And they're not compelled by the battles, right? And, like, I don't think that they're wrong. But they're like, what are they even, like, going to do? Like, they felt that there were so many things and questions opened this season, like, including with sheepseater.

I'm like, I don't know if sheepsealers ever coming back, y'all. Yeah. So, yeah, what do you? I don't know. I just, like, thought that was interesting that people felt like there was nowhere for season four to go. whereas I'm like, there's a whole, there's so many places. That's so interesting. I definitely think they have more time than we're giving them.

You know what I mean? Like I think everybody is like, oh my God, there's so many events, so many events. And I think they actually have more time to play because the big issue, as I've brought up, is once you kill Reneira, you don't have a lot of time to play left. Maybe one or two episodes at most. It's the same reason why David and Dan. didn't kill DeNaris until the very last episode. It is going to be probably difficult to hold audience once you start doing that. And because, to be fair, they haven't built out some of these characters that are now really

needing to take the stage, right? The momentum of Alan and Bela and Adams' characters, for me, were not enough this season to sustain what they need to do to hit what they do in the end of their role in Fire and Blood, at least during the dance. So there's a lot of legwork that really needs to be done. Thankfully, we are killing a bunch of people off left and right. That needs to happen faster. Yeah.

God's eye can't be till what, mid-season? I struggle between like what I want to happen and what I think will happen. And what I want is lots of episodes after Renera dies. Yeah. Because I just, I find Agon's stupid. rule for idiots and then also like the moon of the three king stuff and then obviously the hour of the wolf like really interesting and and and like upsetting especially as a story about war that this show is

having the sort of like survivors in the aftermath is just very important to like get right and I and how I feel like they would need more than one episode to do that. But I also think they're just going to cut it really early and not have the Hour of the Wolf and, like, have Agon have one episode where he rules and then dies. And then finale is, take three, getting married or coronated. Flash forward epilogue. Yeah. Oh, for sure.

So I don't know. I also think about Ryan Condal Singh. that like the writing team broke the structure of season three and four like at the same time. So maybe it all kind of builds from the stuff from season three in a way that I wasn't really expecting it to. I do think there's a lot more setup than we're able to give it credit to yet, obviously. But like there are some things that started paying off this season, even from season one in some aspects that I was kind of surprised at.

So I'm like, okay, I'll let them cook a little bit because there were some things this season that I'm like, where are we going? I guess we're going to find out. You know, Alice, Dragon Ag's, Amand, I think that all is going to stay on the mystical side, especially with Damon in the plot. And maybe even Sheep Steeler. I mean, a lot of people are very convinced we won't see Sheep Steeler again. And I'm like, I don't know about that. I think we'll see Sheep Steeler at least one more time. Yeah, I think a lot is really up in the air right now.

Yeah. Like people say things so definitively these days, and I'm like IDK. I honestly, I don't know what they're going to do. I have no predictions. But I do know they're going to do the Lysini Spring. I have it on very good authority that's happening. We are getting Laura Brojare. That's happening.

I actually, Ryan Condal just called me and confirmed it. Yep, it's happening. The Winds of Winter is under your chair also. So if you want to take a look under your chair, you might. Yeah, we are getting the Lysini Spring and I believe that till I die. So it's stupid that he won't give me that. Like, Ryan should have budgeted better. Fucking Ryan, man.

If he wasn't so busy wasting in universe 15 year time jumps, you know, like, come on, Ryan. Give me another time jump. Yeah. I'm curious. I hope that they end it with some A-Gyme, but also it definitely won't hit or matter as much. I do believe that with having them off screen. And I do understand and agree They're difficult to have as props on TV children

But like It's too bad we're not setting up Egan and Vassaris Because what if they just paused And they came back with a new director And we got another four seasons I mean I feel like it could happen if like what Blood and Fire drops

Who knows? Like that could drop too That would be exciting for me too Yeah that would be big for the me club very big. We love blood and fire in this household. Oh my god. Could you imagine? Maiden Vault?

And the Daron that I also care about. I mean, I do, this Daron, like I said, from this season has grown on me vastly. You know, Darren stocks are up. But I have also an investment in the other Daron stocks, too. Oh, yeah. I like them all. Yeah, no, that's true. I do even think, like, Darren, the young dragon is, he's interesting, too, I guess.

but yeah, I mostly care about parentified child, Daron, whose family all turned against them. He's like, what the fuck? I just have a hot, Dornish wife. Why would this happen to me? You know, at least I got to see Dreamfire, everyone.

Yay. That's all that matters. And then the next time I see Dreamfire, he he, he. Let's talk, yeah. Tell about Helena. Because I don't know. That all really worked for me, honestly.

So good. Really worked. Yeah. It was effective, especially for being kind of littler in timing. You know, it was very effective. It really wasn't. And it also showed you don't have to do that much, though, to be effective. True.

So every little bit counts is all I'm saying. And her little bits were good. I really enjoyed. I like the way the walls closed in. You know, like that was the plot for her. The walls were closing in. I did like it. I would have wanted a little bit more, but what can you do? Say Levy. But yeah, they did very well on that. They did a very good job. I think we just needed some more visions. A couple more visions. Would have nailed it for me.

I was surprised we didn't get more visions in Heron Hall after Damon's crazy visions. Like, that was really fun because they brought back Patty, they brought back Millie. And I felt like they could have done more of that with Amund. Maybe with Allison, but they didn't really have time for that. But we all thought, and then they did not. We all thought. We all were like, yay, we're going to get crazy visions. And then no. I liked the Vagar opening her eye thing when Amon saw that. That was cool.

But like, yeah, I did actually, despite all of its flaws in the Heron Hall, Amund Allison, I really actually did love the switcheroo of like the first scene, her being fake and having that be a vision. and then him waking up and not being able to discern between the actual and the real. I loved that. I did think we'd get a little more of those things. I also did love, like, the audio in his dreams, like when he was hearing the things in his dreams. I thought that was good.

So I think it was well played. I do think Ryan Condal's like, we're hearing you. Okay. I'll back off a little bit, which is fine. I loved Harren Hall because I love a little navel gaze. I love a little haunted house. I did, I just feel that there are some things that, you know, even D.E. and D had difficulties with his brand.

They were inconsistent with the idea of visions. They kept it strong in the first season. They brought a couple in in season four. Then they were like, take him off the board. And then they brought him back and then he's king. But they weren't consistent with his visions either. And I do find them an effective way to be able to just like, even little things. I liked the one glimpse we got where she was seeing the light from the horse and seeing

presumably probably the full visions we saw at the end. almost like, you know, a door that she's refusing to go down. Yeah. And we don't get to see all of it. So I liked that. I would have just liked a few extra other things. I just think they're like an easy way to show the ability of sight without having to dedicate too much time. But I also understand that's not actually true.

Like you do have to film an entire separate thing and needs to have an entire team working on it. It's not like an easy thing to just stick in. But I just find when you're using characters that have this type of math. or have these abilities, like, why are you not using it? Why not? For sure. I know why. And they're large.

They're large. The reason is that they're large. They have flapping wings. They breathe fire and they're all going to fucking die. And that's the reason that we don't have more visions. They're dragons. Yeah. One thing I am a bit not worried about, but interested in in terms of season four is just the sheer

amount of death. Like every episode A main character is going to die Like a main main character And the dragons And the dragons And I just We still got one more kid to die

We literally still have one more kid to die We have all the fucking Targ Towers Every single one Reneera Agon Like So much death

How are they going to balance that And make it Like make sense in terms of like TV structure. I don't know. I'm very curious. I think that it will be a really great season.

Like I am anticipating I'll really enjoy it just because it's so bleak. And I think this is really like a lot of things coming due in terms of like the bleakness, the horrors of war, et cetera, where everyone is going to be really faced with like, it was pointless. It was fucking pointless. everyone's dead. I just wonder how they're going to pull it off, structure-wise. A lot of things need to happen. And like, I don't know, it might be, it might be even too fast, right? Like, I think to an extent you even have, you'd have to have multiple, I mean, some of them,

you will have multiple big characters dying at once, right? Like, obviously both Amon and Damon die the same time. So, like, that kind of fixes, oh, I don't know if it fixes, you know what I'm saying. Like, that clearly all happens at the same time, but. I think they do, a good job of anchoring the events for what it's worth to like they choosing Tumbledon as the one big event of the end of the season and getting to it.

I didn't mind the adaptational changes in order to do that and like who was there in order to do that. I think that was a good way to do it so I would expect they'll do some more rearranging and simplifying when it comes to the actual battles. I don't know exactly off the top of my head which

battles I think they'll merge but I'm sure they will merge a couple of events based on what characters geographically or logistically for the plot makes sense. And I'm okay with that. Like you said, Noah, like,

okay, have your little battle. Yeah, those are not, fun little battle. The important things to me. Like, I imagine it'll be like Tumbledin 2.

Mm-hmm. And maybe that's it for like big battles. Like other than like the duels of it all like with Amund and Damon. The 1v1. With Reneer's death, it's not a battle. It'll be like Tumbledon. and the riots

and those will be like the really big complex action set pieces will be those which I am very excited for I imagine too and what I'm looking most forward to I would say is probably moon of the three kings of things that I'm like sure we're going to get

but I'm wondering if they'll remix that and move it earlier yeah I almost wonder if it moves up in time the riots will happen kind of early, like maybe episode two or three. Yeah, if they actually introduce it as one of the kind, like in my opinion, that's smart. It's part of unraveling Rainera and unraveling her reign in Kings Landing. Yeah.

It's like already bad. You know, if we start growing that plot, it's already started. It's already terrible. We have the children. Yeah. Things are going to be bad or worse. Yeah. So in that sense, I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, bring up something with someone else's claim. and, you know, she already has Agin running around and people saying he's alive, so she's already slowly losing her grasp. She just killed the Pope. Dude, that was... That was awesome. That surely isn't going to have any consequences, though, right? I mean, it did it for Jenny Vance. Should have.

No, I'm joking. They should try to get that guy on anything. They got, like, an American Pope who's, like, not pro them, so, never mind. It did have consequences in real life. All right. What are your final thoughts on season three, Noah and Eliana? This is your final moment. This is it.

No pressure. I love television. I had a big smile on my face the entire season, and that's kind of all there is to it. I think it is a messy show. I think it is a very interesting. imperfect show if I were to evaluate it like completely without any emotion. But it's it's a show that contains the red sauce that that makes me crazy.

And for that reason, I will I will love it forever. I think this season had lots of like really great moving impactful moments. I think Reneura beheading Otto, Wayne. entreating Darren to escape. Like, those really moved me. I think many of the characters are, like, they're doing really, really good stuff with. And then there are some characters that they are not.

And the common thread between them, let it not be said. Oh, yeah. That's a good point. Oh, yeah. But I... Yeah, that is true. I think it's all building up in a really good way. I think it has a lot of thematic resonance, and it's my show.

Leave me alone. Don't like, it's my show. I love my show. Don't bother them when their stories are on. I think, I mean, like, I'm like to say, like, I do feel, and our friend Alex called this out at the beginning of the season before everything started and Unleashed the D. The primer part of the series, not the, what is this? What is this?

not primer. I don't know what critics are calling it. Yeah, I was like, if this is not a primer, because it's after, I don't know, the after part is. Postmortem, I've been saying. Alex, Alex, you know, said, like, I, it feels like we're always just on the cusp of finally fleshing out, like, the black characters, and then we don't. And I feel like we're almost, like, I don't know what's holding them back from it, because I feel like this is the season to do it, and we're, like, just a,

about to do it and it's still like I think I'm well with the exception of like I guess Alan Alan's gotten whatever the fuck they're doing with Alan I love it I love it amazing that's part of the thing like as you said

it's an imperfect show and there are things that baffled me and confuse me but I in terms of some of the delivery but it's so obviously saying something and like not that not in a like stories have to teach us something. No, but like it has themes. There are actual things that are

thought provoking in terms of like what it's saying that I think are very like, that keeps it good and interesting from start to finish. And I think like, you know, it makes big swings. Like, do they always hit? No. But sometimes they really do. Like, as we were talking about regarding Rainier a Triumphant. Like, as I said, during that episode, I take it all back. I take it back that they should have called season, like, season three, episode two, slash, aka season two, episode 10, Rainier a Triumphant, calling that episode, Rainiera Triumphant, like, Chef's Kiss, perfect.

Very earned. Yes. They had earned it in that episode. I definitely agree. And, like, I would piggyback that I love, that it makes the bold choices that may or may not be good choices in what it tries to do, but I love its imperfection. I would prefer a show that swings and misses rather than never takes any chances in its adaptation

or in the message it's trying to portray or in the lore building and the world. And that is why House of the Dragon is my Ace Woff show too. It does like, it has soul. You know, I think I'll say that. Like, the show has a soul. I don't know if... Yeah. I don't know what I mean by that.

It does. Yeah. Like, when it comes to, like, a story like this that is a tragedy from the beginning. Yeah. And most of the people watching are probably, probably know that already. It can easily, like, become really bleak, grim dark even in a way that's just, like, not interesting to watch. But I think it does have some of these characters that, like, really do believe in goodness that really have, like, beating hearts. Wayne is a really good example.

Allison, like, wishing to be free is, like, really just visceral to me. These characters do are trapped. They are trapped in this terrible, horrific story. But they do want to escape. They do try to escape. that trying is still like very meaningful and it's what makes it sad. I mean, not to bring him up because we've finally been rid of him, but like Kristen Cole. Yeah.

Right? Marching to his death, the slow, ragged death march that the entire show is and it could be like you said so bleak, but somehow it still finds life in the margins. Like in the face of the darkness, Gwain saying, my boy, don't do this. Don't let yourself fall to this despair to this darkness that has engulfed the wrong. rest of the world we live in. Like, those are the moments. That is the beating heart. And so it kills it. No pun intended. It really beats those parts in. So here's to one more season of House of the Dragon. Good for us. 12-8. 12 episodes season. I can't wait. I think if they made it a 12-episode season. Yeah, then we could get Lysini Spring. That and I think it would make sense for the spacing out,

like, as you said, right? Like, because you can't just have like, I mean, you could. Didn't he already say that it's eight episodes? Yeah, it's absolutely eight episodes, so I don't know why you're dreaming. I can fix them. I can, if I just manifest hard enough, I don't know. Ryan, what is your email? We need to contact you. Ryan, listen, listen.

Ryan, I have things I need to say. And it's like if we're not going to do five seasons, make it a 12 episode season. Like, let's, I think, what if we did, you know? Please God. Noah, where can everyone at home find you in the off season on the internet? And is there anything that you're looking forward to to to tell everyone about? You can find me primarily on Twitter. I will not say the other name because I don't want to.

Good for you. At Samantha Tarley. You can find my full-length essays about a song of ice and fire at the shieldhall. Dot wordpress.com. And you can subscribe to my newsletter. at the stain.substack.com. What am I looking forward to? I am looking forward to nothing.

That's so christening all of you. For the next two years, I am walking into the darkness of a life without House of the Dragon. Oh, my God. Is there anything else, like, I guess that... Oh, I... Dunkin Egg next year.

Oh, yeah, that's right. That is happening. They're cute. It's coming. They're cute. They're cute. They do a good job. They do a good job with their little sketch. Yeah. With their little show. I'm looking forward to a publisher publishing your book. Let's...

Yeah. This is a place for manifesting. Yeah. F in the chat. Publish the book. Thank you. Well, Eliana, thank you for having been a special season guest host, regular. Something. I really appreciated it. I'm not going to announce your next promotion to everyone. have to come back in two years to find that out.

When Unleash the Deep, the hit primer and post-mortem House of the Dragon series that critics say is rare and full of boldness and brevity. Interesting. We'll return. We'll return in

2008 with the final season of House of the Dragon, unless I have something to say about it, being the final season. So, we'll be back then. You can find us at our normal podcast where we talk about a song of Ice and Fire every single week where we'll be returning to Tyrion Lannister in the Asong of Ice and Fire series as well as our Patreon. Patreon.com slash Girls Gone Canon C-A-N-O-N. I think that's it.

I think that's everywhere we are. You can find us online. You know where we are. And thanks for hanging out this season. I will miss you all and we shall return. I'm one of your host, Chloe. One of your series regulars, Aliana. and I'm also here. What's your name? You have to say your name. Oh, fuck. You have to remember your name.

Sorry, I'm Noah and I'm also here. Okay, goodbye. New band, okay, goodbye. Thank you, Noah. Okay, goodbye.