Girls Gone Canon Cast - Succession S4E4: Honeymoon States ft. PoorQuentyn

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

 Spoilers! Succession S4E4 Honeymoon States Ft. PoorQuentyn from NotACastASOIAF    NotACast Patreon | My Brother, My Captain, My Podcast Patreon | @PoorQuentyn  GGC Patreon | @GirlsGoneCanon  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following music was used for this media project: Music: Modern Jazz Samba by Kevin MacLeod Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/4063-modern-jazz-samba License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

🎵 hello and welcome to girls gone canon mini episode uh succession season four episode four honeymoon states featuring my friend and roommate poor quinton i am one of your hosts chloe and i'm eliana i already messed it up oh Oh my god. You, actually, I think you and Eliana do have a little bit in common sometimes. There's the E, first of all. Literally, first of all. That is how I remember you both. Hi, Emmett. Hi, Chloe. Thanks for coming on back to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to chat succession with you. We've been threatening to do so, but before we jump- Threatening is the correct word for it. Threatening. Holding people hostage,

demanding ransom. Before we jump into that, welcome. If you are tuning into Girls Gone Canon for the first time today, congratulations. How exciting. We're very proud of you. So proud. day congratulations how exciting we're very proud of you so proud uh that said we are usually a literary analysis podcast covering books by george rr martin like the song of ice and fire series that we cover pov character by pov character with full spoilers uh or the his dark materials series or sailor moon or a number of other other little sketches we put on every week for you. Eliana is currently abroad, my co-host, and Emmett here from the Nauticast has been so kind to step on in to talk Succession this week. Emmett, tell us a little bit about Nauticast for the uninitiated. I don't know that there will be many. It's true. I am very generous and magnanimous for being here just like everyone on succession i would fit in just fine so yeah i'm emmett also known as poor quentin i co-host the not a cast podcast with our friend manu aka

manu clear bomb we go through a song of ice and fire every couple weeks we have a new episode that we put out for patrons and then for everyone and then on the other weeks the off weeks i do solo episodes right now about star wars and lord of the rings that are only for our five dollar and above patrons so you can check us out at patreon.com slash not a cast a s o i a f or you can find us on podbean and spotify our free episodes wherever you get your podcasts and you can find me at poor quentin on twitter where i talk about my terrible movie opinions along with the podcast good ones too mostly good ones but i have to say terrible just so just the people can accept me yeah if you don't uh self-deprecate a little how will they relate how will you fit in on twitter how that's true it all comes with a dose of that

unfortunately true we're learning a lot tonight i would also be remiss if i didn't talk about your co-host who is also covering succession over at his other podcast his other cast that he's on he's got damn how does he juggle two podcasts it's insane manu is a prolific man ain't no doubt about it but yeah my bro my captain my podcast he does great work over there with his co-host emily they're covering succession right now yeah i checked out last week's and I'm excited to listen in when this week's is dropping. It's going to be great. We will link that and, of course, the Nauticast ASOIAF below for you to follow up, check in on. Though, like I said, I'm sure most of you listening have taken a listen or two to the gentleman over there.

I'm the Euron guy. If you're unfamiliar with me, just search poor Quentin Euron. You will never emerge from the rabbit hole that lies within. This is the water and this is the well. Well, I don't know. There will be a little bit of a song of ice and fire talk today. Not a lot, but I'm sure it will leak. Can't avoid it.

No, it will. We're weak people. It will leak through. That's it. No, it will. We're weak people. It will leak through. That's a good way of putting it. As the realities bend. Well, Eliana is out right now. She'll be back. She is traveling Carmen Sandiego style.

Though I will say. She would look good in that hat. She would look interesting in that outfit, actually. Very mysterious. Note that I said good and Chloe said interesting. Not said interesting noted very noted keep it in the records she did message me we saw her recently uh in real life so eliana is she's alive she's out there i've seen her no ransoms no whatever you said i need a picture of her with today's newspaper yeah she uh She did send me a message. Last time we saw her, we had a little booze.

Just a little. A little. A little. Maybe a lot. Maybe. And she had told me it was an alarm that went off to remind her. To remind you. To tell me that you have graduated from being the guy I live with or my roommate to intimate friend.

Wow. What an honor. I like to thank the cats. No one asked me about this. I was just fine being the guy you live with. I was just fine being the roommate. But I accept it with all the humility it demands. Well, they didn't respect you until you started wearing the mask, you know.

Ain't that always the way it goes. And that's how I became the Joker. We started watching Succession, what, after season two we had heard the buzz it was popular among a lot of people we knew i didn't really know much of anything about it actually before we started though i don't remember i don't remember if you did um i knew a tiny bit and i just remember one day i was like we're starting it and we did it and it was one of the best decisions uh somehow we didn't tear through it we wanted to tear through it but we didn't long episodes that helps not tear through it yeah it's a one-er right I like to have one with dinner digest it's

an aperitif absolutely yeah um but yeah the it hooked us pretty much immediately and there were some shows I love that take a few episodes to get going or at least a few episodes to get me but succession had us from that first scene of Kendall in the backseat rapping to himself and the driver looking in the mirror like, what? What are you doing? It had me right from there. To be fair, Beastie Boys does that. You know, like what a what a killer song to open your show with. I love the cut from the actual song, which is awesome, to just Kendall rapping it to himself.

The saddest, squeakiest little mouse you've ever seen. That was pretty great. Yeah, it was kind of a slow burn for the first four to six episodes, but in a good way. I like a good slow burn. I know some people that have watched it and said, like, when does it get good? And I'm like, brother, it's already good. It was good the moment it started. My God.

But it hooked us. already good it was good the moment it started my god but it hooked us we watched every sunday live for the season three episodes that that was a time that was very special and unfortunately we we've turned to uh to be roy's ourselves you know we usually have a little champagne a little bubbly while watching the episode i don't know about you at home's rituals for your succession, but we try to live it up on those Sundays. Exactly. We try to pretend that we're, well, I was going to say shiv and tom, but that's a terrible thing to say. I'm not sure which one of us that insults more. Yeah, I don't know.

Let's gloss over that. We'll come back to that maybe. We'll come back to that. We'll be Frank and Jerry. How does that sound? Aww. I'm kind of okay with that. We'll be Frank and Jerry. How does that sound? Oh, I'm kind of OK with that. That's almost nice.

Almost. What do you so who's been kind of, you know, we haven't covered succession before. This is our inaugural little succession episode here for Girls Gone Canon. So I want to know a little bit about what you like about the show, what your favorite arcs and characters are going in before we discuss what we kind of missed in the last few episodes of season four. And this week's crazy episode, season four, episode four, Honeymoon States. Yeah, I mean, what I love about Succession is the mix of smart and stupid. And I don't mean stupid even in an insulting way. I mean, that's a very smart show about people making very bad decisions.

And that combination is great. Like you get the swelling strings and the, you know, it's, when you talk about the visuals of the show, it's not something that translates to taking like screenshots because it's not pretty. Because it's set in sterile boardrooms and it's just glass and wood. But it's the, the framing is really careful and the blocking is always really strong. And the actors are just, are just tearing into it. And they do a great job of concealing their emotions from each other and from the audience and then letting them through.

So many of our favorite little moments are moments when they betray their feelings and then immediately stop and immediately snap back. I like that mix of serious and satirical. It reminds me of Barry Lyndon, a movie I love a lot, which has a very strong dramatic arc and takes itself somewhat seriously, but is also poking fun at the world it takes place in. It reminds me of that. And as far as the characters go, my favorite overall has probably got to be Tom Wamsgans, aka Mr. Chivroy. He's become genuinely one of my favorite TV characters. I love that he's gotten weirder as they've gone along.

Like, if you go back to the pilot, he mostly seems like a tool. He seems like your standard suck-up, brown-nosing kind of corporate guy. Doesn't have all that much of a personality. The only real hint is his strange bullying of Greg. And strange is the only word for it. Tom is not an effective bully, which is one of the things I really like about his character. He's not good at it. Homoerotic is another word i would use homoerotic frequently so absolutely like he he's too wordy when he bullies greg he gets too into the language and

it takes so it takes him too long to get to the point like when he's making fun of greg for the shoes he's wearing that one time he's like what are we on the deck of a majestic schooner and like he does he has like three bits and it's you know, bullies are short and cut to the point. Tom just enjoys the process too much, and that personality is great. And it's so different from how he is with Shiv, and that's the best part of Matthew McFadden's performance, I think, is that he's just around Shiv, he's just like, all right, yes, of course I understand. I was thinking that maybe, no, no, okay, looks down. And with Greg, he just, suddenly there's this swagger that he just invents out of

nowhere and it's a great way of capturing how it's a very realistic way of capturing how a lot of people operate in an environment like that where they take this shit and then they pass it on and that's clearly how Tom thinks of himself like the the emotional load I get from dealing with shit I'm just going to pass it on to Greg and yeah Tom absolutely wants to fuck Greg that's that's not even subtext anymore once they were started talking about Nero, that became text. But I think he also wants to be Greg on some level, because Tom hates himself and Shiv. And he, I don't think he's fully aware of that, but it comes through at certain moments. And part of him just wants to be reborn as the young, the bright-eyed, bushy-tailed beginning of his career cousin Craig, as Loken calls him in the premiere. beginning of his career cousin Craig, as Loken calls him in the premiere. And I think he's become more aware of the fact that he hates himself and his wife over time. And that's, you guys sort of get these devastating moments between him and Shiv that have cropped up over the seasons where he really, as he says in one of the previous episodes in this season, do you really want an emotional

reckoning of the cost of this marriage? Do you really want to sit down and do that? And those are when the veneer cracks. And that's when you, you know, people, I think before this knew him mostly as Mr. Darcy from one of the Jane Austen adaptations. and those are when the veneer cracks and that's when you know people i think before this knew him mostly as mr darcy uh from one of the jane austen adaptations and those are the moments where i think that moments like that are where that kind of performance really comes through yeah tom is one of the i don't know i don't want to say like best developed i think there are a lot of great characters that are developed but the bullying is far too personal right like him making fun of greg's shoes are every time romans made fun of his suits in front of logan and put him down you know it's emotionally charged and

it's too personal because he's finally got that position to be a bully when you know his corn huskin midwest ass was thrown in lockers his whole life's life's life his whole life his whole nine lives and it's uh with greg it's like yeah does he want to be inside him or inside his skin or all yes you know it's yes the answer is yes he sees kind of those lost dreams and if only he had come to this somewhat on his own if only he had been born into Greg's position what would have been different for him than marrying in with Shiv because that's a very and this comes from a lot of Crusader Kings three this week but it's a very different bond right like if you have the blood even if you don't have the last name but you have the blood as you see with Logan that went somewhere for Greg

a new world it's an opportunity if nothing nothing else. And yeah, for Tom, that was always going to tell. I love Tom Lomskans. I actually, you know what? I used to be not a Roman Roy hater, but I just didn't love him the way that I think everybody loves him. And I've changed. I've changed that. I do love Roman Roy now. This season especially, he's growing on me.

Kendall is number one, baby boy. Shiv is number four, baby boy. She wishes. That's where she ranks in the baby boy ranking. Exactly. In the canon. Yeah. Yeah. Kendall, Kendall is amazing. Hamlet Corleone, as I call him. That's, that's Kendall Roy to me. He, what did he call himself? He called himself Techno Gatsby. Which I can see that too. himself he called himself techno gatsby which i can see that too but the thing is kendall gatsby wanted something very specific he wanted daisy and part of what i find so fascinating about kendall is that he really has no clue what he wants which is something other characters confront him with all the time logan the first time kendall handed

him the what the bear hug letter the the letter that indicated that he and Stewie and Sandy were going to try to take over the company. And Logan just asked him, what is it you would do with it? And Kendall was like, I want to do good stuff. And part of that is just being intimidated by dad, but I really think he doesn't know. And same with Frank in this past episode, when Frank is like, really, you want back in? Why? For what purpose other than to say you did it and that's yeah that's what makes him a lot like hamlet is that he has no clue what actually makes him happy and he's he's got that doubt and that uncertainty and that self-awareness that really paralyzes him like when he broke down in season three at his birthday bash about like this this plan he had to do the sing honesty while

being suspended on a cross which was kind of stupid But then he got way too into his own head about it. Like this is 12 layers of overdetermined master's degree bullshit or whatever he said. Like he just, he thought too much about it. And that's always, that's the Hamlet problem. And that's the Kendall problem. But he's also got that kind of organized crime, Michael Corleone vibe of the hungry second son with Fredo being the Connor there, I guess, who takes over the empire, heir to the Empire, but then realizes that there's not much to it when you don't have a human connection, you don't have a soul anymore.

And that's also... So Tom is probably my favorite written character in Succession, but I think my favorite performance and favorite overall arc is probably Jeremy Strong. He seems like kind of probably pretty obnoxious to deal with. But that performance is a hell of a thing. Whenever he stares at you out of the deep sunken pits that are his eyes. That's great. It's always great. Or worse when he smiles. Right.

Which it's so creepy and unnerving when he does that. Cause it's like Gollum smiling. Like he's just got the wrong face and it's, you know, all he ever really wants is just reassurance that he's not a bad person. He's like D in Always Sunny when she's at her therapist. Tell me I'm good. Tell me I'm good. Tell me I did good.

Tell me I did good. That's Kendall. And it's, ironically, I think he'd be both happier and more effective at his horrible job if he didn't have a conscience at all. Because he's in a, you know, I think Logan was right when he said you have to be a shark to succeed in that world. Which, that could be a sign to get out of that world but kendall's never going to accept that it's you know it's great because you just watch him crumble and i think he's got that very relatable realistic addict mindset and that he's kind of burnt out the happiness synapses in his brain so all he's got left is the death drive like roman says about him he'll self-destruct

because it's his favorite well it's like what frank said in this episode to him when he said that he wanted it you know when he asked frank is this real he's straight up frank looks and he's like you want back in because this is what's broken you time and time again and he loves it while you look at how logan treated them right like shove your face and shit but here's a treat keep coming back keep coming back of course he lives off of the validation of his father that's how he's been conditioned to live and now with logan gone let's talk about this season four bullshit because it is probably one of the bolder moves that a big hit TV show has taken in the last few years to kill off its highest paid, biggest fucking mammoth of an actor in episode three of its last season. And it has done nothing but good for the show so far.

I think it has interrupted, disrupted. It's a disruptor. As they would say. Yeah, this is a big techno disruptor. What happened with Logan Roy's death? I I'm very curious how I mean, you know, there was something in an interview that episode eight is going to have a huge twist, a very big twist. And now that Logan's already dead i'm like what's it gonna be what we'll find out but one hopes hopefully yeah interesting though i'm like with logan dead anything it's anyone's game anything could happen well i'm just i'm just curious to see what horrible

things the siblings can be convinced to do to one another. And it's coming. It's absolutely coming. Throw them in the gladiator arena and get it over with. So the season so far, I actually thought this was so funny. Leading up to that big reveal, that big twist in episode three, the marketing alone for this season has been incredibly done because it's laid the path with nothing but misdirection. Go ahead and watch episode one, two, and three trailers or the weeks ahead trailer from the

very front of the season. And they hid that shit. So Prime, give that person a raise, whoever did that, because the editing is outstanding. They really had us thinking that Logan could stick it out longer. outstanding. They really had us thinking that Logan could stick it out longer. That said, I want to read these very laughable HBO official blurbs for each of these episodes because they hid that there too. I mean, this is incredible. So first episode, Munsters, Kendall, Shiv, and Roman hone their pitch for potential investors in Los Angeles. A call from Tom shifts the siblings' focus. Greg's uninvited plus one raises questions at

Logan's birthday party. Tom seeks assurances from Logan. Episode two, Rehearsal. After Shiv discovers Tom is following Logan's playbook, she, Kendall, and Roman consider backing Sandy and Stewie's aggressive play on the Mattson deal. Logan gives an impromptu pep talk to the ATN newsroom and outsources a tricky conversation. And now, this one they worked real hard on. Episode 3, Connor's Wedding. While Logan doles out an unsavory task ahead of his trip to meet Mattson,

Connor fixates on Manisha at his wedding. That's all that happens there. Nothing to see, folks. Move on. Yeah, they cut a few things from that episode. And then this one is also pretty telling, right? For Honeymoon States, Roman, Kendall, and Shiv navigate a misstep with Mattson. The Waystar team discusses a pivotal recommendation to the board ahead of the Gojo sale. Angling for position, Kendall seeks support from Stewie and Hugo. All of these are technically true statements. No lies detected. Yeah, just really some good manipulating of those words.

I mean, Carolina and Hugo should watch out. They got someone coming for him. But yeah, it was a terrific move because Logan's death is obviously coming from literally the beginning of the show. Like the beginning of the show is Logan getting old and losing his grip. And everyone's just kind of in universe. Everyone's talking about it constantly through the series. So really the only surprise left, the only way to make it not seem like a foregone conclusion was to do it sooner than you would expect it to. And yeah, and every TV convention leads you to expect that more kind of climactic moment coming towards the end of the season. Game of Thrones

didn't invent that. It just kind of codified it for a lot of people. And so that's what you expect because you also kind of think of succession as Logan's story in a sense because of how much he drives the action and how much the discussion is constantly around him. But from the title on down, it's really been about what's going to happen after he's gone. So I am glad that actually that's not like an episode and a half, but most of the season, I think that's terrific. And yeah, I think they did as good a job as you possibly can

of hiding that and then creating an experience for people in the moment of realizing it. And the only, you know, the most I heard from the people who saw the screeners were, you should watch this one live. And they were, they were correct. You have to respect that, that they, that's what they said. There was nothing else, but they were able to say, watch this one live.

You might regret it if you don't. Yeah, and I know many who did. That was a, it was over on Twitter. Shit was over. That was, you gotta watch succession live it's like the super bowl right only um you know i only watch succession for the ads actually huge bombshells are dropped in this episode i know you and i had been speculating at home from our couches together and we had talked a few weeks ago, like, what if is Shiv pregnant?

Because we haven't seen her drink a real drop of alcohol, holding a lot of water in each of these episodes so far. And holy shit, Shiv. She probably conceived likely, I think, in the Keonteshire episode in season three, episode eight, the first part of her mom's wedding when she comes home it's a really fiery scene that she comes back and she has a moment of clarity after talking to her mom and seeing like the dismal lack of hope and luster in her mom's life with logan and her mom saying i shouldn't have done it i shouldn't have been a mom not all of us are made to that judgment call that she made on shiv and of course, the back and forth with her and Tom from those two days, it's very baby centric. So she comes home with that

fire in her eyes all we're gonna do it and we're gonna beat them and people don't just get handed this Tom like I have to work. And it was kind of a let's see the the excitement of that conversation was dampened, of course, by the by the awkward horrible verbally abusive hate sex that followed when she completely misunderstood slash manipulated the uh situation with the dirty talk but it starts off i don't love you is not dirty talk shiv that's not what that is i mean just because that's what your daddy gives to you what she's got to work with it's rough because she almost for a moment had that bit of clarity right where she like broke gives to you what she's got to work with it's rough because she almost for a moment had that bit of clarity right where she like broke from it all and she's like

what matters is us and our happiness wow like life is too short tom uh and manic state unfortunately yeah manic and unfortunately that is what bred this sex this baby baby. It's a good start. Yeah. I'm worried now for her character going forward. I think she is probably going to be very unfulfilled in the long run. And we'll talk a little bit more about some of our predictions. But there's so many ways this could go and so many ways it's framed for her, right? Like, in a way, it's interesting because she hasn't told Tom, obviously. She's avoiding him at all costs.

In fact, throughout this episode, every time she comes near Tom or is about to go near Tom, she buttons her jacket over her stomach. I thought that was a really nice touch and keeping her buttoned in to her outfit in a way. And you can see that some of her jackets and outfits this season are trending a little bigger. Maybe to perhaps you know shade obviously sarah snook who's actually pregnant and also shiv that helps yeah that does help she's actually kind of she's almost reversing what tom planned to do to her when he was at prison right he wanted her to be pregnant so that she couldn't leave good call and now she's stuck in this situation while she already wanted to leave.

It's gonna make for some very horrible, sad arguments. I can't wait to watch those. It's hard because this child could almost be like hope to Shiv, right? Because a lot of people sometimes have kids not for genuine reasons of wanting them or a family or wanting to build something but for fulfilling a patch in their heart, loneliness, selfishness. And Shiv doesn't want to be alone, right? Like she doesn't want to lose against what her own mother and father ingrained her with that they told her you aren't built for this. You probably aren't built for this. Your life is fucked up because of us. You shouldn't

do this. These people that declared her incapable and rendered her incapable of love beyond just an extension of herself and it's probably sadly just gonna lead to familial abuse right like the child will probably be used as leverage and divorce shit or like used as leverage for company shit depending on what happens there it's of devastating. It's one of the saddest fates for those three characters that you could really imagine. Shiv reminds me, to get to A Song of Ice and Fire, Shiv reminds me a lot of Cersei in that she resents her own gender and she sees through a lot of the bullshit of the gendered power hierarchy,

but her takeaway from that has always been to despise other women for being too weak to stand up to it. We saw that with the whistleblower, who actually stood up for the principles that Shiv pretends to believe in, but she couldn't really acknowledge that. And we saw it with Jerry, who actually has assimilated into that structure, and Shiv kind of hates her for that too. And Shiv, in relation to other women like that, always felt to me like she was just stuck in the worst of both worlds. Like, she's not savvy enough to operate from within, and she's not really principled enough to stake her own claim anywhere. And I think Logan was right when he called her basically a coward who's marrying Beneath her on purpose because she thinks

Tom's never going to leave her. And in the same way that Tywin was right when he called Tyrion spiteful and disobedient and all the insults he threw at him. In both cases, the problem is that Dad never helped them be anything else all of which is to say yeah i think i think shiva setting herself up to be a world historical bad mom in the all-time rankings she's she's either going to be an absence like her mother what she called her mother or a to borrow from kendall a malignant presence like their father she's definitely being set up for some sort of failure there i would say perhaps an even sadder fate is that she quits trying at real things in her life. Like for example, her dad saying that to her, right? Like

you're useless marrying below you because you're afraid, blah, blah, blah. But he's also condemned the moves she's made to get away from him, right? That she quit to go into politics. She decided I'm not going to be in the family business, although it's lateral enough because then she could still be needed and wanted and loved. That's a different story. And comes back at any...

Yeah, I mean, no, it's true, but I think he's right that... I mean, I don't think... I'm not convinced Shiv has a driving interest in politics in itself. I think it was a way to play her own game.

And I think, you know, once the corporate world had room for her, she jumped at that pretty quickly. Well, especially when the corporate world is your dad saying he loves you. Yep. That's the bigger jump. That's always tied together. Yeah, that's the bigger jump. I think there's definitely something, too, that she was born into this world and sandwiched into this world where she was told that her power could never derive from herself.

Right? world and sandwiched into this world where she was told that her power could never derive from herself right her power has to come from her father from the legacy he built just like the sons are being told as well and even in this episode it comes back that there she is in the room of men shoved out they are willing in some ways to drag her along to build that alliance the shiv alliance but you know there there were not as many clever ways for them to think of, how could we keep Shiv involved? And they didn't play to her strengths, right? They didn't seek that. They didn't say, why don't you direct Carolina and Hugo? Because you're good at comms and PR. That's where I see her shine in their trio, right? Because having them together has let some of these good strengths of theirs come out. Roman, God bless him. He can't follow a process to tie his shoes or save his life.

More of an idea, man. He's an idea, man. Yeah. And Kendall understands the way that things work in business. And now that he's getting over telling bankers to fuck off from season one, well, maybe we'll find out with Mattson next week. But now that he's a little past that, if he can get over his ego, he actually is great at understanding process and the business. And Shiv, I see her fitting in best, where she knows

the opponents, she knows politics around their job, and what they affect as far as news, etc. And she's good at communications. She knows how things read. She does that a little bit better than the brothers do. She has a little more foresight of if we make this move in chess, what moves back? It was just interesting. They couldn't quite find a great place for her. And there's something that you know, this quote was going on around on Twitter pretty often and around on a couple of other places in season three with Shiv and her mom when they talked, but there's a quote from Bonnie Burstow's Radical Feminist Therapy, which is, often father and daughter look down on mother together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree she is not as bright

as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother's fate. And I think that rings, it rings so true, right? Because at the end of the day, Caroline was stuffed overseas with no access to her children because Logan knew he had what he needed to fuck her out of it anyways. And he knew that worse, the kids would do it to her without him having to. And that's probably closer to Shiv's fate, right? Shiv's fate might be that she gets knocked out of the entire game and all she has is her motherhood and that's not a bad thing right

like motherhood's not a bad thing sometimes people want to be mothers sometimes people like want that relationship and want a family and that's not a bad thing to be it's not a weak thing to be but in this world that they have painted these children into and that Logan's world that he's created in Marsha's words, right? He made a playground for her and she thought it was the whole world. And that's all of them. That's what they thought. And now they have to live in it with him, the playground creator gone. And maybe that's what Shiv's fate ends up. that's what Shiv's fate ends up. I think he's right when he said that they weren't serious people. I mean, I think they're they're, I mean, we saw that with like The 100 or whatever the BS marketing plan

they were coming up with on their own. Entertainment? Exactly. 720. 720. I think, you know, I do think they have good ideas, but I think Kendall often gets in his own way and he is right when he says Shiv doesn't have business experience. We saw that in that one scene where she tried to tell what was it, Frank and Carl what to do. And they're both looking at her like, you don't know the specifics of what we're talking about, though.

So how can you possibly? And she just said, push it. And they're like, thanks. That's helpful. And yeah, no, that quote is perfect for her. Because like I was saying, Shiv has this built-in idea that I, yes, women are shoved to the side, but I'm better, I'm different. And part of thinking of yourself that way does mean, I think, looking down on other women and thinking at some level it's their fault that they're not getting as far as me. And that is

pretty clearly how Shiv felt about her mom. And that's just brutal. And yeah, I think she'll, you know, like the therapist said, they fuck you up, your mom and dad. They do not mean to, but they do. So Shiv will pass on this with interest to her own kid. Maybe and hopefully it can be the opposite, right? She passes it on with like 1% less fucked up. I think 1% more might unfortunately be the case. We'll find out. They come up, you know, they come up with some extra just for you, as the poem goes. A lot of interesting dynamics.

So that's just on Shiv alone, really this episode because uh logan's logan's angels this episode right things are things are crazy let's talk about this being marcia's wake right marcia was a vulture descending on the dead body and she's like again coming back to what you just said i've suffered the most as logan's women that i should tear down the other women because they didn't suffer the way i did and he's not here so i can't take it out on them holy shit marcia like i get carrie is cheesy annoying but she's also like and okay this is a tv 30 something right like she's tv 30s quote unquote but she's like young like she's the same decade of age that i'm probably in according to whom according to whom thank you i am 22 years old you're right you start counting down at 29 i know the rules yeah you go back down

from 30 then you go all the way down to 21 and you go back up you hit 30 you go back down again you're like a pinball oh boom boom boom exactly tilt carrie even roman i think uh the way that roman you could see his disgust and you could see kind of that pain oh they're treating her like fuck that's not fair just because she gargled the old dude's balls a few times and now we hate her like any vulnerability becomes a weakness in that context and if you're willing to cry that's an opening and marcia won't ever you know whatever marcia did in her past life her crying days are done so she knows how to exploit and yeah i mean there's the definitely the the class dimension to it when she says we're not even not even giving carrie a taxi ride home

we're giving her a taxi ride to the subway. Which, how far is that? Like four blocks. Yeah, exactly. Screeches, do a haul, get out, take the subway to your little apartment, which Marcia said. Which also shows she knows quite a bit about what's going on with her. She's had her eyes on the girl for quite some time. But yeah, I mean, it's the, and it makes me think about what Willa says to Marcia in this episode. Yes.

Because Marcia says in regards to Conrad and Willa's wedding you know good for you and she says it to her in a kind of vaguely condescending like way to bootstrap your way to a to a rich guy kind of way and and then Willa and I like Willa because she says cutting things and you're like for a second you're like is she aware that she just said that and then you realize she is because she says it kind of ditzley sometimes but she's always got the the fierceness going uh she says yeah good for both of us right because yeah marcia that was you just a few decades ago but you that was you yesterday bitch you've stuck around long enough yeah decades is generous you but you but you've stuck around just long enough that you've become

an institution and you can act like you were always here. And all that is is time. That's not a quality that makes you superior, you know, objectively to Carrie. That's just you stuck around long enough and she had the bad luck to come in at the end. Unfortunately, what eerily uncanny you got, what's his face, Murdoch on his dying days about almost married that new chick. It's a bummer because I'm sure

that he probably did fucking say those things to her he probably about getting married and putting something aside yeah of course and in the moment i'm sure he did there was almost even an implication that there were other papers throughout the household that had different wishes on them and every closet had a different will that does sound about right yeah and marcia got there first i mean that's the thing something that really clearly stood out to me was last episode kendall changed the narrative, right? He, as soon as he found out that dad died, while Roman and Shiv were kind of having an emotional beat about it, Kendall immediately said, no, we were there. We just saw him night before last. We've been having family talks. Family TV night. box family tv night exactly like straight up he was like we were pretty intimately connected with our dad this past couple of weeks and the old guard is like hmm okay well we'll come back

to this but put a pin in that clearly he's stating it i mean almost like in a crime you'd want an alibi but it's the opposite like when you're about to commit a crime you also want an alibi uh and marcia does the same thing in this episode she says to kendall right when he shows up we spoke every afternoon and morning and then within one sentence she changes it and says we spoke every evening and kendall great catch flicker of his eye he notes it and he goes wait a second while you're playing to the media that's what they were doing the whole episode it's that's the the irony is that none of this is actually intimate or personal, except for a couple little moments like Kendall and Stewie. But for the most part, this is they are playing

for a public. They're playing for how this is going to look to people, look to shareholders, look to the press, look to politicians and people they need to curry favor with. And that is like a lot of great stories about about rich and powerful people that is always the flip side of being so rich and powerful is nothing is just yours and you really don't have a private life anymore and you have to constantly worry about how you're going to look and that does something to you i mean look at what it did to marcia and look you know carrie what happened to carrie as brutal as it is fits with her not being very good as as a news anchor because she's like oh so she's as put together as she is. Sometimes she's not up for that, being that callous and that empty where all you think about is your image.

She's not up for that. Kind of good. She might be better off. Yeah, we see her break emotionally, right, in this episode. And she's the only one actually physically grieving Logan. What does Shiv say? But I'm the only one missing him. Yeah, I think Carrie might actually miss him more than you.

Colin might miss him. It might be the people on the periphery who actually missed the man more than the kids yeah you even have that moment where Ken and Roman step into their dad's office and they realize we don't know him sure did he do he did Sudoku the Roman has had no idea and Ken's like yeah I think I knew that which like yeah you know a lot of a lot of old people do Sudoku but like that's you know they never thought about what does Logan do in the the 15 minutes a day where he's not logan roy he sat in his chair with his sweater and did sudoku like a grandpa might and they really all at once they realized wow we never got the chance to see him that way which is his own fault but it's still it's a hard thing yeah

it's his own fault and it's some of their fault too right because kendall was there sure well they bought into the legend too hard exactly which is what he well he wanted them to do in a way and he didn't want them to know who he was on the inside that's true but you just think every single moment kendall spent by his side in season two detached right dissociating how could he have noticed well again like hamlet you know hamlet's about to do about to do a thing and then stops and monologues and grabs his head in his hands and sweats and sits down. And that's I mean, that's what makes it psychologically powerful. And that's that's that's Kendall to the core. Kendall was a huge anchor in this episode. You know, I will say every kid kind of had a prominent feature in this episode. Roman,

right, caring for Carrie in that moment and realizing wow wait this is a person that dad probably really cared about and she at least cared about him shouldn't we actually be grieving like her that moment of clarity and moment of actually being like I don't I don't have your private number that's why would you why would you yeah and now it's like this person you'll just never see again because they're dropping her off on a corner and... She's gone. She's probably getting an NDA tomorrow. Yeah, like she was never there.

Yeah. Wait, like no real person involved. So just throwing her off the boat. Jesus fuck, Emmett. Glossing over the boat throw. Fucking Carnival Cruise. They did. They did gloss over the boat throw quite frequently.

They've gotten quite good at that. Well practiced. day this one goes away this one saves the day good training let's talk about the letter because this is so season one coded uh that in season one logan goes into a coma the old guard shows up and they're like ken Ken, it's you. It's always been you. Oh, my God. Kendall seizes power. So in the letter, there is, of course, a wonderful, ambiguous, underlying strikethrough in Kendall's name. This is the world's best underlying strikethrough. Like this is it doesn't matter whether or not he intended for Kendall to be the heir. Right. Like it's similar to like

last episode with the lack of showing the body for logan for the whole episode because it's not important about the death it's what everyone is doing in the wake of it in this wake of it just like feast for crows that's the whole thing in that book yes everyone just reacting to the dead and filling him in with their their problems it doesn't matter if we saw the underline or the strike through if the dress was blue or gold it's what they thought right and kendall up front showed a very unified front as he read through all the different claims on it if you actually take a good hard look in there's some screenshots floating around you can see that the written hand in the bottom right that has the greg mark also has a line that says N-R-P-I. And possibly has a line that starts with like a J-O-U.

So I'm thinking journalist, like the journalist that interviewed Greg. So to me, it looks almost like the bottom half was not at all anything to do with, you know, passing the gauntlet to Greg or anyone, obviously. He's just taking notes. to do with you know passing the gauntlet to greg or anyone obviously it looks like in notes it looked like an investigative note like that he was writing that greg has the shit or greg is involved somehow and maybe he knew i don't know but it was fascinating to me that nrpi was written on his last wishes letter alongside the kendall as the heir as alongside that stood out to me with the carry of it all this episode.

Yeah, I love the, the strike through slash underline is probably my favorite part of the episode because you could stare at it forever and it's always only going to be whatever you want it to be because he's not around anymore. And it's you, you have to interpret it and that's, it's, you know,

Logan Roy leaves behind a shadow on a wall as his one true heir. And Kendall just clings to it just so childishly in the way that he does. Like, my name, my name is on the piece of paper. And I love no one's willing to call it a will because it's technically like not. Like he just, you know, he just shoved it in a corner somewhere. The lawyer wasn't involved. There's nothing binding here, they keep saying.

But there's just some something so condescending about the way everyone keeps saying the piece of paper. Like it, you know, like it's toilet paper. Like it's nothing. Which, yeah, he was just scripted. Like it might as well have been another Sudoku game to Logan Roy at the end. That's just, you know, Sudoku was just numbers arranged and that piece of paper was just letters arranged. And there's nothing they can get out of it because the authenticity would have to come from him himself. So Kendall is just kind of left alone staring and wondering, which I think is perfect.

Do you think we're going to get a real Will? I don't think we're going to get a real Will. I think that is the best that we will get. And I think that throws it into chaos. Yeah, I don't, you know, I think the lack of a clear legal path is what opens up all the wonderful possible conflicts to take over the rest of the season.

Because it's so clever when you think about it. Like, of course, Logan Roy doesn't have a will properly annotated out there because Logan Roy could never die. He was a monster, an animal, a beast. Immortal. Immortal. Not just that, but then there's the question of even what Carrie was saying, right? Like, please reach out to the lawyer.

Please tell me, like, he said he was sending stuff to the lawyer well he probably didn't send that but did he send anything and why aren't they reaching out well easier to take the narrative now yes yeah yeah like connor said history will be written he was right about that but he was more worried about about which kind of conservative which was a hilarious spit and he's like that wasn't a he't a paleo, he wasn't a neoconservative. He was, he was a paleo conservative. He was almost an ANCAP. He was an anarcho-capitalist.

And what Roman says, like, yeah, he was into Frank Sinatra. Which one is that? Because like, yeah, I don't, I doubt Logan was actually invested in the specifics and minutiae of right-wing politics enough to care. Like you said, when they were picking a president, I just care about someone who pops and someone who gets it, which gets it is Logan's code for is racist like me. So, but like, yeah, Connor,

only you have read Edmund Burke. Only you are like into the specific strains of conservative thought, but he is right when he backs into it and says the history of dad, who he was and what he means. It's being written right now. Today you decide whether it's a strikethrough

or an underline, and then you have to live with that forever. Yeah. Kendall is writing it, right? Like Kendall right now is about to backwrite and unwrite and rewrite that history. And that's the thing as Shiv, Roman and Ken sat there on the couch, reading those reviews, cracking up, being like, this means he's racist. This implies he might be a pedophile. This implies this. Yeah. Well-connected. That's not, that's implies he's a pedophile this implies this yeah well connected that's not that implies he's a pedophile that was one of roman's best lines and that's what's gonna come out after what kendall said to hugo at the end to fuck it you know like go full beast on it go nut nut hugo or

else uh ken's back full killer he is gonna be the one to rewrite that history right there yeah they're bringing back connor's mom which is brutal because we've we haven't not you know we've gradually learned more about that but from what we know that might be the darkest thing logan ever did so bringing that to the fore could be very interesting it could also be the darkest thing kendall does is to his brother that's true, because it'll mess Connor up. But who cares about Fredo? Just shoot him in the leg, we'll be fine. Me? I'm a con head.

You and there are dozens of us. Dozens. I care about Willa, too. I hope she gets her money out of that house. Fuck. Her trancing around with her mom, being like, I really want to open this room up. I want it to be, like, bigger. What a queen.

Like, she just didn't give a fuck. Just like Marsha. I'm like, you can you can show up Marsha with your big ass like I'm Logan's real true wife I'm the real one with the money just willow plus time yep will I love that stare down I'm so glad you brought that up because it was such a good reckoning of like I'm you but smaller well what are I guess call it here on the air where all the world can hear your wrong predictions, because they're going to hear mine too. They can every week. Every week. Final predictions for the season to close out. Let's go. Well, I think the big picture fight now is between the old guard and the kids.

That was set up pretty strongly in this episode in terms of the direction the company is going to take. set up pretty strongly in this episode in terms of the direction the company is going to take and I think I think this is something that Stewie and other characters have talked about before that that an out and out fight in public in front of the stakeholders for control that just kills everyone because anyone to emerge the winner from that has just lost all credibility so I think those two factions are going to wipe each other out, and there's absolutely no world in which the dead man going in on Logan in the grave with him being racist or this or that. There's no world in where that looks good immediately. That's going to backfire immediately.

Because you are his kid and his name is still on the company. And even if that's a way you can get an edge up on your competition, in the same way that Jerry told Roman not to distribute the story about the guy, the homeless guy whose face they had tattooed, because it would backfire. And I think the same thing is going to happen to Kendall here. Yeah, it hurts all of them. I think, yeah. I think the old guard they set up in this latest episode is when Jerry was talking about Carl getting his golden parachute. I do think they walk away with the money or a lot of the money. I think all of the old guard does pretty well. I think they don't get to be in charge. I think their credibility is damaged, but I think they

get that sweet, sweet bonus money and walk out the door. There were in trailers, it looked like some sort of scuffle on the streets with armed men that looked like they could be SWAT, FBI, something going on in the Weeks Ahead trailer a while back. It makes me wonder if it reawakens everything. Hostile, hostile, hostile. out with new allegations because of what comes out and rips the company to shreds before they have time to rip it to shreds that could be a thing still it could happen i uh i do think that the company's gonna end up parts and the old crew they'll get out fine yep the carls the jerrys the franks agreed i think it's gonna get cut to pieces because you have enough factions enough vultures like marcia but in a more business sense so like the pier Pierces, Mattson, of course. I'm sure Sandy and Stewie will get their end in, even if the kids go down in flames. So I think everyone gets a piece, but there is the Roy Coet, the big gigantic monolith on the hill is gone. Yeah, it won't have the same meaning.

It won't be the same thing anymore. And I think as far as the family goes, I think the only one of the family to end up with a chunk of the empire when all of that is done will will be greg i do think they have been setting that up pretty hard maybe more earlier on in the in the show actually than currently but now he's doing his kiss up routine little sycophantic weasel that he is so i think it would be funny and appropriate if he ended up with parks like where he started at the beginning of the show when he was just the guy in the mascot suit puking because he was high and i think he it would you know it just classic irony that the one on the bottom of the totem pole the most bumbling incompetent member of the family is the one who fails upward and actually

ends up with part of it i think that is a good call i think he's going to i mean i think even has to die. True. That's got to factor in. Good point. Yeah, you got to kill off these Roy oldies, I guess. And I wonder if Ewan, he makes a comment in this episode that Ewan will be voting. He'll be calling him for the vote, implying he's talking to Ewan.

I'm wondering if Ewan will, like Logan said, soften a little, not maybe give him money back. Greenpeace has that shit coming. But I wonder if maybe his shares or something of the board, some sort of little like winner's circle thing that puts him ahead of everybody. And I also wonder, I think Greg betrays Tom. I think Greg is going to betray Tom in some way, shape, or form, cut him out somehow, get one over him, and it'll probably be a huge betrayal at the time. But I think that's how he gets ahead and he ends up with whatever he ends up with, is by betraying the man that loves him. I think that's a good bet.

And it's been a gradual, slow reversal where, at first, Tom seems like the really callous one in that relationship because he's making fun of greg has more power greg has no authority over everything but gradually like you have the whole manipulation about the documents but gradually they've been reversing that where tom becomes the more vulnerable one even in that relationship and greg just gets more and more callous as he goes. Boo souls, you know, as his mantra now. And I think he's the one who actually sticks with that more than Tom. Because Tom has, as messed up and ultimately destructive as his love for Shiv is,

Tom does have that to anchor him. And Greg really has nothing. Yeah, it was all a facade, right? This is the facade that Tom has put on. He's actually a very sensitive, vulnerable lover. I'm just kidding. But yes, actually. But he's very, like, sensitive and vulnerable, right?

And he's romantic. He's got a Matthew McFadden poet heart on him that Tom Wamsgans. And the more that he's losing and Greg's winning on accident, the juggling of women, right? Greg fucking sucking up to marcia in this episode despicable is there substance there is there is there is there i don't know the man dying of thirst becomes a critic of mineral water yeah i think there can be some mirrors there of characters who will may win or may get power in the end after all but just hollow shells from it and sure that's the only way greg already had the shiny facade of trying to pretend to fit

in but losing at it and now tom has that part the losing at it i do like that everyone hates greg now he's lasted just long enough to piss everyone off but i think yeah him betraying tom and that being his way in does make a lot of sense and maybe ewan is provides the practical support with the shares i could absolutely see that being the case uh as for kendall uh you know i think regardless of what specifically his situation is i think i think i know how it's going to feel it's it's going to be a lot like the the madman ending where don draper goes off to retreat and find himself and do yoga and then we just zoom in on him as he looks like he's attaining inner peace and then we get inside his head and he's just designing another goddamn coke ad and he just hasn't broken away at all and i think ultimately that's that's that's where kendall will be emotionally is just

as as hollow and his need for reassurance and support and affirmation of love as he's ever been and looking down the barrel of that being the rest of his life. Yeah, I think he destroys everything in his life and still loses. I think that he ends consumed by the memory and by the legacy and by the abuse that his father left him. I mean, I'm sorry, but I'm talking kids. He's going to lose his kids. He's never never gonna see them

he's gonna lose Rava any connection to her I think it's all gonna go I think he's gonna sacrifice his relationship with his siblings all of them even poor puppy dog Connor I think he's going to sacrifice it all for nothing yep and ultimately get nothing out of it yeah that'll be brutal with the kids if Rava takes them away for good. Do you think he's going to fall off the wagon again?

Probably. I hope not, but probably. I think it would make sense, but I also think it would be interesting if he doesn't and destroys himself anyway. Like, sober Kendall is less erratic than high kendall but he doesn't necessarily make better decisions it's like that season one moment right where he's like claiming to rob like he's clean i'm clean i'm clean i'm clean and she reminds him okay but one time you claimed that and you had been doing coke off the kid's ipad right um a very vivid image something she'll never forget apparently right how could you yeah it's uh it's season one it's great because we've regressed to season one level for all these characters in some aspects but in an amazing way like logan set us down at ground zero reset it lets the characters be their primal

selves and kendall's primal self is like he's a dog chasing his own tail and he'll never get his tail but even if he did what the fuck would he do with it? And that's his dad's love. That's his dad's validation. That's his dad's company. Like he says in that first episode to Rome and he's like, hey, I've smoked heroin before, but there's no thrill like building something with you motherfuckers. And there's also no thrill like him tearing something down.

And that's what he's doing. He's pulling the bricks. He does love that. Yeah. Pulling the bricks of the Roy legacy one by one apart sure i mean the ultimate kendall moment was that press conference at the end of season two when he was tearing into his dad and we all cheered and then what i loved best about season three was watching just the air come out of that balloon ever so slowly and watching him fail at it that's that the ultimate Kendall energy right there. Fuck the patriarchy!

Beautiful, beautiful. Moving on to a happier story, Connor, happier only by comparison. Connor, you know, getting married, still running for office. And I've felt for a while that the way the whole election thing plays off for Connor,

obviously he's not going to win. He's been hovering at 1% for quite a while now and the election is like tomorrow. But I think he's going to get just enough of the vote that he spoils it for Jared Menken, the Republican, and hands it to Jimenez, the Democrat. Just enough to take Menken down without even realizing that's what he's doing. I think that would be hysterical. So that's my bet.

You know, I have to say, Emmett, it is criminal what Homebox office entertainment has done with Justin Kirk I just want to put a disclaimer out now HBO I'm watching you editors of succession how dare you you're wasting him you are wasting Jared Menken we could have two Nazis in one episode this week I mean two for the price of one Ravenhead and no I'm just kidding but I do love Justin Kirk a lot if you haven't watched it and you're listening at home please watch Weeds um he is fantabulous in Weeds he's in a bunch of other wonderful stuff he's in Perry Mason right now so uh he's doing kick-ass shit but man they have wasted him he was supposed to be in this episode there was a trailer uh and I know like I I want this election shit to heat up they're just dangling it and they're teasing it but maybe we'll see him next week

uh there were some scenes in the trailers that showed like the children still in these outfits the children uh the grown adults that we call children uh still in these outfits god even the way we speak about them is always related to Logan how hard their lives are but they're yeah the brats they're wearing the outfits they wore at the wake in ATN in the trailers for the weeks ahead the exact outfits and the scenes with Mankin so you know towards the second half of the episode Mankin did come in we might see deleted what we thought was deleted we might still see something with him next week. Yeah, I think this is probably the weakest part of the show on the whole for me is how it's gone back and forth with the political plot. I don't think it handled that particularly well.

I think it always had potential, but it always just took a backseat to the more corporate media backstabbery. And I don't I don't think I think the show was biting off more than it can chew when it really started to get into right-wing politics. Because that is, maybe that is a situation where you need a more American-centric writing staff to really get what makes American right-wing politics tick. Because they opened up something interesting with Jared Menken's character. With that one bathroom scene out of The Shining with him and Roman. It's, I think it's a world, the show is a world of kind of a flash and posturing and trying to keep ahead of your own crumbling decay and i don't think when push comes to shove it

really has anything to say about fascism so i think maybe that's kind of slowed them down there which is fine but yeah don't waste don't waste andy don't waste justin kirk from weeds that's because i because yeah i love seeing him in things and he's he's basically been in one episode if they're really hoping for that election plot to sting, I think they brought the ball there. Well, you know, I guess the one upside is every episode seems to cover one day. So we're getting closer to that election. It's the ticking clock of the season. I think we'll get there.

Or, wow, what if the finale is that episode? And we get there. Fuck. And we get to watch him flop yeah i think yeah if the democrat wins i think shiv might end up joining that administration might end up going back to politics and i do think her and tom will reluctantly stay together for the baby and it'll just be you know the end of the graduate they'll just stare into space and hello darkness my old friend we'll play over both of. And then that child is going to grow up to be the most evil being in the universe.

That child is going to be Joffrey. That child is going to have more issues than Roman put together. You know what I mean? I mean, it's going to it's going to be it's going to be what what's his name? Damien, the evil child from the Omen. That child is going to have all of all of tom's sneaking servility and all of shiv's like you know praying mantis ferocity that is that is going to be a a wicked combination that's that's that's the grandkid to watch for no offense to kindle's kids yeah i liked

the there was that great line in this episode that she said where she mentioned you know that she wanted he could have been here had they not called him about Mets and he could have been here had he not gotten on that plane and he would rock his grandchildren to sleep and you know she wasn't talking about Iverson and Sophie and that's that's the saddest right because it's what Kendall says to Frank in this episode that he's like I don't think he was proud of me ever. Like what Connor says like I don't think he liked me. I mean you want your fucking parent to like you dude right and frank responds that he loved you which i think is true but love and like are not the same thing and you want both like yeah i do think logan had a bedrock level of commitment to his children otherwise he wouldn't have bothered covering up for kendall that when kendall you know indirectly killed that guy

but I don't think he liked them and that I don't think he enjoyed spending time about around them and I don't think he cared about what they cared about I don't think he was interested in them I guess is what I'm saying and I you know I think that that worked themselves out that worked its way through each one of their personalities in very different ways i love the idea of shiv going back to iman as uh we did get that phone call in episode one where she takes a call fields a call and i thought it our episode every episode she's gotten secret calls interesting episode one was the call from iman as his team episode two was the divorce lawyer call. Three, there were a lot of calls because of Logan's fucking death. And then four was the hospital or the baby, the doctor, the

baby doctor, the womb doctor. Womb, there it is. Yeah, so interesting that Shiv is, and Roman's got some secret calls going on right before his dad's death. He was getting Logan calls, but the secrecy, the things brewing under the surface, I definitely think that could be the safe way for her to go. She's been shoved to the back, and she's also shoved herself on the ground. That was horrible to watch. It was a mood, like, especially wearing heels. You've seen me do this, but, like, rolling your ankle in lady shoes? Fucked up. lady shoes fucked up uh

just so fucked up but i do think like i said earlier i see nothing but misery for them stay together for the kids stay together because they have nothing else resent each other and resent their situation i mean caroline caroline caroline caroline yeah look at her that's what you need to see the the only one i don't really have a handle on in terms of where this goes now is Roman. Because Roman's relationship with Logan seemed to be increasingly the central part of his story. As they started getting closer, spending more time together, Roman started developing a little more confidence. So now I'm just not sure what direction that takes. In some ways he seems the most confident of the three central kids, as we're calling them right now.

But as he himself admitted, I'm sure this is going to catch up to me emotionally at some point. So I'm just not sure what form that's going to take. What do you think? Especially something is standing out this season, particularly this season, a little bit in the end of the season of last season. But there's something standing out about roman being compassionate and look it's a far cry from roman in episode one with the baseball game okay i'm not that is what i was thinking yeah that wasn't very compassionate of him okay but uh there's something that's kind of changed in his attitude of how he sees people

and maybe it's similar to kendall you know, after he killed a serving person, you know, finally he sees real people. But just the way that Roman, like, I don't know, just like kind of the sympathy and empathy that he's handing out and shining when it comes to Carrie or when it comes to, you know, like when his dad said, kill Jerry. And he's like, are you really? And for him, are you a cunt? End of message. Are you a cunt? Obviously, message. Are you a cunt? Obviously, he wanted to do it softly, right? He didn't want to kill her.

He wanted to warn her, not kill her. And he was met with coldness, obviously, for some very quite fucking obvious reasons. Like, you know, his dick pics being why she's on the line. But there's something in the way he's going about things and the way he wants things to be cinched together, the way that he cared about Connor during Connor's wedding, where he was like, can we just not, guys, this is for Connor. We're not here to talk business right now. He's holding that trio together in a way or trying to in many ways and trying to do it in a healthy way and actually really trying to. And I really almost hope he's the one that gets to take his

ball and just go home and maybe never be quite right because none of them will ever be fucking quite right with what they've had to deal with but like maybe he could have a chance maybe he could go work at a company and build something you know he's almost the only one coming out fucking adjusted and I don't know if that's just because he can't have sex without like committing uh role play necrophilia or what's going on there. But he has some issues, but maybe he could get out. In some way, it helps that he was always his dad's least favorite until the end. As he says, he had been planning for his dad's death for a long time.

Roman, though, it's the same question I have with Kendall, which is that I don't think he knows what it is he actually wants if he was given free reign over his life. I think that's always been Roman's problem, maybe even more than Kendall, because Kendall at least had the fake goal of running the company. Roman, you leave him in an office, he just stares at the window and jerks off after a while, which, you know, that's not the worst thing you can do.

There are more damaging things you could do with your life, like Logan. Object permanence, you know? I mean, if it's there, why not? It's not going away. But yeah, I mean, and it's there, Why not? It's not going away. But yeah, I mean, and that's, yeah, the essential childishness of all of them, I think, will tell, that they're all stuck in a state of arrested development and haven't really matured since, you know, since

they were, I mean, those kids in the opening credits aren't actually them, or aren't actually supposed to literally be them, but there's a reason that they show up as children. You know, they're signified as children in the opening credits, because they still are. And Roman kind of, it's funny because Roman

is the most obviously childish, but he might also be the most mature underneath that. So I am curious to see how he negotiates that at the end. I will say the last interesting thing I have to say for Roman is if you watch the Weeks Ahead trailer,

I think from the very beginning of the season when it first came out, Tabitha is in a frame. Really? I forgot that or I didn't know that. I think that we might get a Tabitha scene, maybe with each other, maybe with some sort of closure or something. Who knows? Who knows what we actually get? But I thought that was very interesting to see her little blonde ass curls showing up again one last hurrah get everyone in yeah one last hurrah still waiting on reya you know come on holly come through she's a busy lady too busy for me too busy for me too busy for you that's that's that's that's her away message too busy for you

aol instant messenger away message or is is that ICQ, old man? I think Logan's still using AOL. To the very end, he was. He's in heaven. Just kidding. He's in hell right now, trying to hit the dial up, and it's in the background like, Oh! Just like the underline on the letter.

Now it all makes sense. Emmett, thank you for joining me to talk about Season 4, Episode 4, Honeymoon States of Succession. Please tell everyone one last time where they can find you on the internet. You are very welcome. Always happy to be an honorary boy gone canon. And once again, yeah, my name is Emmett, also known as Poor Quentin. I co-host the Not A Cast podcast with our friend Manu, a.k.a. Manu Clearbaum.

You can find us on Podbean or Spotify or any other app where you listen to your podcasts. You can also check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash notacast, A-S-O-I-A-F. You can find us at notacast, A-S-O-I-A-F on Twitter or Instagram. And you can find me at Poor Quentin on Twitter. Thanks again, Emmett and for those of you listening at home we are on a very miniature hiatus from our Song of Ice and Fire podcast. We will resume our episodes starting with Aaron a new POV for Aaron Damp Hair Gray Joy. I think you mean Damp Fair? Say it right right my god we will be beginning those episodes

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Goodbye.