Girls Gone Canon Cast - The Book of Dust Episode 7 - La Belle Sauvage Chapters 18-20

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

As the flood rages, Malcolm and Alice seek safety for themselves and Lyra in many places yet fail to find it, risking losing her at every turn.   CHAPTER 18 - LORD MURDERER CHAPTER 19 - THE POACHER CHAPTER 20 - THE SISTERS OF HOLY OBEDIENCE   --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Alexander Nakarada

Hello everyone and welcome to Girls Gone Canon reads the book of dust episode 7 La Belle Sauvage chapters 18 through 20. I am one of your hosts, Eliana. I am another one of your hosts, Chloe. This is some chunky stuff. We're getting into the heart of this story, and I'm really excited, but there's another story with a missing heart, may I say, that I'm excited to talk about in the upcoming month. If you're listening to this, it could be the end of March of 2021 when it's released. It could be April 2021. It could be years from now. I hope.

I mean, if it lasts that long, good. Good for us. But if you're listening to this next month, we will be putting out a very special Patreon episode. Yes, we will be putting out a very special patreon episode yes we will next month our patreon episode is going to be of course his dark materials we switch off every month this current month of march we are we did in the song of ice and fire episode but next month is his dark materials uh the show in fact we are doing the lost episode yes this is the episode nicholas cage threw into the ocean okay he threw this off of the deck of the titanic this is the episode no i'm just kidding i'm so sorry i'm just a big crazy liar right now but asriel's big day out is the theme right there was an episode in

series two it was the very last episode uh that we thought we were gonna get but it didn't happen turns out it wasn't actually the last episode it was gonna go bloop kind of in the middle of the season you're gonna learn more about it in that episode if you're a patron in our five dollar tier and up our stranger tier and up we'll be talking about this bottle episode where asriel kind of uh does some world building so to speak world building is a way to put what asriel does but yes we are going to be trying to figure out you know what happened during that day what what were the plans this is of course an episode that was going to be written for the television show that sort of expands on what they think Asriel might have done.

Which we'll, of course, tell you a bit more later. And as for the books, though, we are hoping to finish up La Belle Sauvage by June. And then, I don't know, maybe some stuff is going to happen. Yeah, some pretty dusty stuff is going on at girls gone canon inc girls gone canon double lc girls gone canon

anyways so some stuff is happening at girls gone canon this stuff includes a new book in the his dark materials series coming to you coming to your ears. Some dusty stuff. Very dusty. Live dusty, die trying. So I guess we'll tell you about that later. I mean, I think a couple of you can guess it. A couple of interesting surprises that we've

got in store as we wrap up La Belle Sauvage that we are excited about. But again, not yet, not yet letting you all know. Perhaps if you have an alethiometer at home, you can discern what our plans are. But until then, we are still here in chapters 18, 19, and 20. That's the Lord Murderer, the Poacher, and the Sisters of Holy Obedience. And of course, if you are tuning into this episode, please be warned that we do cover spoilers for all three of the main His Dark Materials books. And for the entirety of La Belle Sauvage, anything that we are going to discuss in regards to the Secret Commonwealth will be behind a discussion. But I'm not sure if we will have a discussion this episode. Yes, and don't forget about those novellas.

If you have read Once Upon a Time in the North, Lyra's Oxford, Serpentine, we're going to be talking about those, even the collectors. We might not reference them in full, but just so you know, you might hear some hints. Yes, we are in those three chapters, and we're going to start it off with a crazy one, right? A couple suspenseful chapters. Lord Murderer, Chapter 18. off with a crazy one right a couple suspenseful chapters lord murderer chapter 18 the countryside is underwater and malcolm expects the water to be salty to the taste but it isn't it's not very good water either but there's not a single bit of salt to be found within it alice asks malcolm how long

it would take to paddle the river to lond the flood, and Malcolm thinks it would take a few days. But with this current, he thinks it might just take them only one day to get to London. I'm like, that's very convenient, isn't it? That's very convenient for the story. There goes the plot, paddling across the screen. paddling across the screen. Alice and Malcolm tend to Lyra Asta is curious about Pan and has been theorizing that whenever Pan was a butterfly, perhaps Lyra was dreaming.

I love this. They have their very own demon corner, just like us. Just like what we do here. I looked back, so I was kind of curious if this is something across the story. Maybe Lyra and Pan have had this even, you know, in the main trilogy, but not really, not really a big thing.

This is the first mention of Pan being a butterfly. Later in the chapter, Asta flips into a butterfly when they're scared. Pan doesn't become a butterfly again until they're with the fairy. The only time we see Pan become a butterfly actually which maybe this is connected in a way is when their first meeting will fluttering in the fridge as she's kind of looking around in the fridge but otherwise it's just not a common form for pan since now this kind of feels more like foreshadowing for the upcoming meeting on the little fairy aisle oh that's an interesting idea i like that i like that yeah i like that. Yeah, I think I

remember Pan being a moth more than being a butterfly, right? And when he's a moth, he's usually concealing how he feels, and that's a very different thing than what's going on with butterflies. And that is transformation, right? Like, in a way, this is a metaphor for transformation as a butterfly, so

that's interesting. Especially with the fairy magic afoot yeah and how that might change things for lyra but like you perhaps malcolm is skeptical because neither of them can prove it because you know in terms of what happens when demons uh especially children's demons right uh, do they change while the child is asleep? Malcolm and Asta have tried to kind of figure it out, but then turns out they don't know

because they're both asleep. That's how it goes. He had wanted to mention it to Alice, but her in quotes, bottomless scorn has put him off right now because she's understandably still mad at him for not telling her his plans. And while Asta

and Malcolm discuss, Alice points out that a man in a dinghy is rowing toward them. They're like, oh shit, it's Gerard, with his demon in front, rowing fast. And the dinghy isn't as fast as La Belle Sauvage, but Gerard is like a whole adult man with big muscles, so off they

go. Fuck. Malcolm's paddling so hard it hurts at this point. Alice is keeping an eye on Gerard, but they'd have to stop and feed Lyra sooner or later and find somewhere to hide. They're in a broad valley and they have a couple directions they can go. They make for a large classic house up on the right, and Malcolm paddles as fast as he can.

There's smoke trailing from its chimney, which Alice thinks could be good for them, having witnesses there to see the children fight a grown-ass man. Malcolm isn't really as positive as her. He's like, what if that's where his backup lives, by chance? He sees someone ahead in the trees, and as he's rowing, he realizes, like, he's very scared. He's like, oh, shit, now there's someone I have to deal with up there. And then he realizes, oh, I'm also exhausted right now.

Like, we've been doing this for, oh, 16 to 22 hours straight. I'm exhausted. Yeah, I mean, it's been a very draining day for them and we'll see the toll of that exhaustion a little later it's it's not like horrible they just like go to sleep but a man comes out of the trees gesturing for them to leave and malcolm tells alice to go tell him that they have a baby and need to rest and she's like why me he says because he'll take more notice of her and i'm like huh interesting interesting uh thought there malcolm hmm a little interesting interesting and um i want you to understand that when i say

interesting it's actually a euphemism for misogynistic yeah this is some really good, you know, details, some facts on the podcast. That's what I really mean. Yeah, same. Same. Yeah. Anyway. So while Alice talks to the shouting man, Malcolm retrieves Lyra. She's unhappy and stinky and cold.

And he thinks it must be nice to be a baby. But I don't know. i don't know that it's so nice right now not so much i mean i don't think i love being cold and like sitting in my own shit but thankfully i have no memories of that time which like getting a rash in regards to childhood yeah that's true that's true flood ass Ugh. Malcolm can unfortunately see Gerard in the distance against the gray sky and then kisses Lyra's forehead. Self-consciously.

Not subconsciously. Self-consciously. Self-consciously. As in he's conscious of himself. That was the wording. I find that interesting. I don't know what that means. I guess it's supposed to be like, you he feels awkward he's like I'm gonna calm this baby down by kissing it on the forehead

I'm like I don't know yeah but really he's calming himself down more than anything he says they'll keep her safe and he'd get her warm and get her milk soon and then he starts to say if your mummy was here and then he's like oh shit you don't have a mom, lol.

Ha ha ha, you never have. So he starts to invent a little story for Lyra, which I don't know, maybe this is why she lies so much, right? It's Malcolm's fault. Yeah, Malcolm has been quite the tail spinner throughout this book. And here's the tale that he tells Lyra. The Lord Chancellor found you under a bush, and he thought, Blimey, I can't look after

our baby. I better take her to the sisters at God's Toe. So, then it was Sister Fenella who looked after you. I bet you remember her. She's a nice old lady, isn't she? And then the flood came, and we had to take you away in La Belle Sauvage to keep you safe. I wonder if you remember any of this.

Probably not. I can't remember anything from when I was a baby. Look, here comes Alice. Let's see what she says. Aww. And he's all probably just, you know, bouncing her. Yeah. Trying to calm her down i will say i just don't know if it's fair for malcolm to say that lyra never had a mummy like i mean she's obviously not mom of the

year as we find out later on but i'm just like again as we've said in previous episodes marisa tried hard like do you know how many children she had to corrupt and how many people's lives she had to ruin through the corruption of those children and how many people lost their jobs just so that she could get to her daughter i'm just yeah it's it's so interesting actually that you think about her in this though because while you read this to me uh you inspire me so first of all thanks second of all when you read this to me it made me think of asriel actually not marisa even though he's talking about the mummy and you know this that and later i have a comment that we'll talk about with ma costa maybe being like a semi-reliable narrator on some things right

because she might not have been as like around in some of the events and also this might be kind of some some fallacy of Pullman just making some stuff up now getting some plot going writing some fun stuff but remember how Lyra remembers gunshots? Doesn't she just and she made up that her dad had guns oh oh what if she's remembering this there are gunshots that are about to come up are there not there are that's interesting i never thought of this until right now you inspired me so but what if that's where that comes from yeah i don't know i do uh i do like what you were saying about the marisa stuff because that is true she also like obviously she like we see as real later dude chooses power over her daughter many times but it's something that and the show has done a great job of exploring this

in my opinion some beautiful award winning just give her an award give ruth an award. Give Ruth an award. Yeah. Just do it already, idiots. But some great groundwork that gets explored of what Marisa gave up and when on the edge of the abyss, what she chose the first time compared to the last time. Those are very big, different things. And she changes and evolves throughout the story. And I'm not saying she does great things to get there. Like you said, you know, how many children does she have to murder to get to her own? It's a very toxic, poisonous, literally poisonous. And some other themes we're going to explore in the next two chapters of Poison. A poisonous display of her relationship with Lyra, but she still loves her.

Yeah. relationship with Lyra but she still loves her yeah and I think I think that even within the main trilogy Pullman did a great job of setting that all up and demonstrating that and showing that um and and I like that we're sort of seeing that from a sideways view I mean we do see Marisa literally in in this book earlier on but I I like the way that he's still exploring her character and her motivations even without her being there she's such a looming presence and i think he's just done such a fantastic job with mrs coulter's character yeah i mean she still came to hannah ralph's yeah looking she knew she knew that lyra was near yeah i i really just feel she's maligned in in many ways i mean just like he's all like oh well you don't have a mummy but like why isn't he like oh isn't

it sad that your like dad also wasn't really here i mean they both came looking i know i think it's because the interaction was much more positive that asriel was given than what coulter was given and i think it's a misunderstanding. Like, Malcolm, you know how the witch with Will is all like, you could never understand. And we're all like, us either, because it's written badly. But I get it. You know, we still get kind of the sentiment behind it.

There is a sentiment that's somewhat understandable, if not murky, through the themes. And I think this is kind of one of those two like malcolm is just too young to get it he doesn't understand culture's pain and sacrifice and what's playing at both sides of her head of the institution in one side saying you know this is the only way you get power and agency in this world marisa is if you listen to us and obey us at the magisterium and do our bidding if you want your research and you want all these beautiful big things and then on the other side then it's that internal instinct of like you know being a mother to lyra and having those years that she could never have back in that life that she could never be given back you know yeah she just like wasn't allowed to have it all right she couldn't have she couldn't be

sexual sexy right and have her research and have power and be a mother she couldn't have all these things and i think she birthed eve that's the other thing is like she's directly working for the baddies after birthing their enemy and having to stay in their good graces i mean she just has to live such a double life it's it's not unlike snape in a few ways like not to you know not to bring up that and obviously disregarding some of those negative factors but it's not unlike that and that double life villain who you know evolves and changes in the end well i just think it's interesting that she's not allowed to have all things but it almost feels like the thing that she's most not allowed to that precludes her

from having all those things especially is because she is also portrayed again very sexually right and hannah ralph right she's allowed to have a career she's allowed to have power but yet she's not allowed to have romantic love if she's going to be a motherly figure to an extent to some of these characters she doesn't get to have romantic love and i don't know that she like has to but it's interesting that she doesn't get to it's interesting that also another character that we see in this book what we kind of see in the main series and who does show up in in the second book also has a motherly role yet the romantic aspect of her life is kind of taken away from her in order to have that romantic role it's as though there's a the

there's a kind of like feeling that sexuality and and motherliness can almost almost aren't allowed to coexist within a character and we see that even in seraphina right she's she is very powerful and sexual and the witches are but yet her son is taken from her punished yeah yeah it is certainly unfair in my opinion on the weighing of characters you know like yeah and i mean she's more than that and again this year exploring that right but that the world that their world it seems like don't allow women to do that. These parameters are really rough for characters. And some of it does feel for the world and for the time that he's writing.

But at the same time, some of it does feel a little boxed in, as we see with Alice's treatment throughout the rest of the series, in my opinion. Well, back to young Malcolm Polstead. throughout the rest of the series, in my opinion. Well, back to young Malcolm Polstad. Yeah. Young Malcolm's just doing the best he can with what he's got, right? He's learned, he's picked up tricks. We're going to explore those tricks as we go.

Some of the pub tricks he's picked up of chit-chat. And right now he's just doing the best he can. And as he and Alice are getting off, ready to go talk to this guy they saw, he comes out of the best he can and as he and Alice are getting off ready to go talk to this guy they saw he comes out of the woods to them and apparently tells Alice you can't stay here long and she's like he looks kind of weird no one else is here Malcolm that I saw Malcolm hands Lyra to her classic move he goes to hide the canoe his arms are trembling with fatigue and then he heads in with the supplies that they need for lyra the man lingers at the door with his mastiff demon telling them they

ain't staying long he begins to compliment the man's house and he's like oh nice digs did you did you buy this or or did you fight for it and the man at first is put off but malcolm's like no no no i know where to take this i Shh, I got this. I got this. You know, hyping himself up. He's like, listen, listen, let me talk to you about this house, sir. Yeah, I love this because Malcolm's able to do this because he realizes the man is drunk. And he's like, he knows how to deal with drunks. And I think that this was such a smart, great way to weave in Malcolm's experience from working at the Trout.

Now he's learning to apply that experience in different places. And it is interesting, though, also that Malcolm just sort of in a way manipulates this man, it almost feels like he's casting a spell on this guy to act as their protector. And I say that because, you know, as we're going to see more of that magical element is going to start coming through in these chapters. uh malcolm even goes on to say it's like a castle and you know you could defend this easily not not that anyone would want to attack it of course but if if they did you'd be safe because then he's like does it have a name it looks like a manor or maybe a palace and you should call it after yourself and put a sign up you know maybe a palace, and you should call it after yourself and put a sign up, you know, maybe a sign at the water.

It's nothing big, just a small one that says, keep out, trespassers will be prosecuted. And through this, he's like, you know, everything's different. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to fight for this place. It's different now. If you fought for it, it belongs to you. No doubt. No doubt about it.

I love that Malcolm's just playing up he's like go full prepper go full doomsday prepper on this guy and of course this whole time the whole idea is gerard bonvy is edging forward right like he's not getting farther away he's getting closer so Malcolm himself is like all right I gotta I gotta really execute it now and he's like you know like that man out there in the dinghy if that man landed and tried to take this house away from you it's brilliant uh it's Pullman at his best writing young mischief it's a favorite right in these books whether it's Lyra in her joking war

with egyptian children or malcolm manipulating this guy into protecting the property as if it's his own as well as uh protecting the children as if he's it's their children it's classic as you move through these chapters they kind of have those elements of northern lights and golden compass to them even as we get into chapter 20 later when malcolm sneaks into the church it has a lot of bull vanger vibes right uh fake names and acting like he should be there well no fake names he doesn't give a name but just like when she shows up in bull vanger is like i'm lizzie and just assimilates into kind of intercept and spy on what's going on. Malcolm assimilates real quick. Yeah, but he has been giving fake names throughout the story to a couple of folks.

So that is definitely in there. Should have done it to more. It's kind of hard to the people who already knew you, but yeah. The man here, though, has a shotgun and Malcolm's like, you know, that's good enough to protect them from Gerard Bonneville. And the man begins to think out loud about defending his property. And Malcolm starts to come a little clean now that the guy's on their side, explaining, like, oh, the man is after our sister. Which disgusts the man, who is now full-on in adoption mode to protect Richard, Sandra and the baby Ellie

Anna? Just the baby Ellie. Sorry Ellie. Yeah. So he tells them to get inside and leave the man to him. Malcolm warns him to be careful that Gerard might be dangerous and he's like I'm dangerous and goes outside with his gun.

Famous last words. For real, though. Malcolm goes to find Alice and Lyra, staying quiet but listening for gunshots out on the water. He finds Alice in the kitchen with Lyra freshly changed, sitting on the table, and he fills her in on what happened with the man. They can stay here for a bit, and he's going to defend them against Bonvie. Alice prepares some milk for Lyra while Malcolm checks in on her and Pan. It's really cute. Lyra keeps dropping her biscuit, which Malcolm then hands back to her, and he sternly turns to Pan, and he's like,

you should be telling her where her biscuit goes when she drops it. I also like, okay, I don't know about baby development like is are we at like hard food now i don't think malcolm knows either okay i mean i think she's just nibbling i think it's just something to keep her preoccupied like an oral fixation for the most part you know like holding on to a cookie and just, like, gnawing at it as your teeth come in. That's what I'd guess. I mean, she's what, like, six to twelve months in that range? Kind of like a pacifier-esque

thing. Yeah. And, like, it's used a lot, I've noticed, to keep her quiet, right? Like, keep her busy, preoccupied from getting upset. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of those from getting upset. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of those throughout these chapters. Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's what people do with babies, so. Just shut them up. I think, I think. Again, I don't know. I don't know, like, shit, and then we'll move you on. Yeah. In response to this scolding, Pan becomes a bush baby unmoving, silent, you know

very demure, Malcolm asks Alice his new favorite philosophical question that he's been thinking about and he's like, how can Pan be a bush baby if he's never seen one so I don't know if this is like, this is something I just made up, cause

Malcolm's just like, how does Lyra know all these different animals, it makes me think of like maybe an adam and eve thing right because adam named all the aminals and was like maybe maybe she just like intrinsically knows the animals and it's part of that connection that's a nice connection i do think like uh obviously asked us like i don't know i always knew stuff i could just be stuff i never had to worry about knowing it so i wonder if it's like i guess the answer to life you know and beings being connected or maybe it comes back to the questions that he and hannah ralph were discussing earlier on in the book of like if there were no bees and there were no honey would we ever know the concept of sweetness right so maybe people are intrinsic or understanding the concept of sweetness? Right? So maybe people are intrinsically born understanding the concept and it harkens back to that.

I think that's correct. I think that's what you're on to. Because it feels like one of those, if the tree falls in the forest, was Pantaleon in there to hear it kind of questions. Yeah, or like the world of the true forms outside of Plato's cave. Yes. And I do want to point out that the bush baby is very, it's not dissimilar to our favorite demon, right?

Not dissimilar to Jesper in a few ways. They have a similar look. So I'm just putting it out there. Similar look, but actually very cute, very small, very kind of like ugly cute. I'm into it i like them i i actually was thinking that they remind me a little i don't know if they're actually related they remind me a little of lemurs another another demon you and i like and asta does turn into a lemur a couple of times this chapter yeah i mean that's the other thing is

it could be mimicry you know it could be uh we demons seem to communicate sometimes quietly silently and like differently than humans do and they communicate like a lot of information in smaller amounts of time it seems right like they understand each other much better demons immediately go to each other and they're like oh i talked to her demon she told me this huge story about this, this, this in about two minutes. They're great, easy little exposition pieces. I like that. Yeah, and

I miss Jesper. I just want to say that. I do too. I do too. Alice doesn't really give a fuck about the philosophy that Malcolm's asking about. And Alice is like, I don't care. What are we going to do if Bon Vie gets past that guy? And Malcolm's like, well, we're going to

run or hide. Get out. Get away. And Alice is like, I'm not impressed with that, Malcolm. She sends him to go spy and find out what's going on. And she's like, don't let them see you. The hall's empty and he hears nothing, so he creeps over to the big windows. Asta gets

there first, first though and what they find is not pretty the man that was gonna protect them is lying in the grass his head and his arms are in the water his body's in the grass and he is not moving and bonvi's dinghy empty is next to him yeah shit's not good i feel bad for this man all right like he was just kind of protecting it this place and kind of protecting the kids a little and i do think it's it stands out to me that malcolm and alice don't really think upon this man or feel any sort of remorse that in my opinion and this is of course arguable but in my opinion they had like a slight hand in this guy's death because i mean obviously yeah

bonneville killed him but malcolm sort of manipulated this man into going after bonneville and it's interesting to me and granted of course part of it is the more visceral actions behind it that malcolm feels more ill about having potentially killed bonneville by stabbing him and like i said because it's more active but he feels worse about that than this guy who had nothing to do with anything yeah it's uh it is kind of odd and I think we'll talk more about like the trauma effect of everything going on and I think it's because they had to like compartmentalize and wait because they still have to deal with bone v so maybe the full effect of what's happening isn't there but he does feel

a lot of fear he keeps waking up in fear throughout the next couple chapters and through like big great remorse of what they did what they did and i would argue that like it's probably repressed you know they probably have repressed that they're the cause of this man's death because they're just trying to protect themselves yeah i don't blame i'm sure they're that's part of what he's thinking of we don't get alice's point of view obviously on it besides her like feeling awful and telling him i know don't don't speak about it now yeah and i guess like he's seen a lot of dead people yeah this book yeah well there's no sign of the gun unfortunately or bonneville malcolm it was like 9-1-1 hello fuck and just peers out of the

window and he thinks he can see a small current of scarlet trailing from the man's throat cute real cute like a zack snyder film my god gritty dark chloe actually really likes that film y'all yeah it was great malcolm returns to alice explaining the situation thinking of looking for maybe another gun in this man's cabinet uh though it turns out he also has no clue how he would use it in malcolm's panic they find a trap door in the kitchen and candles on the shelf alice and lyra head down first cautiously and lyra and pan are frightened and chirping because pan is a bird and lyra is just like herself little chirper chirp chirp malcolm comes after struggling with the trap door but finally lets it down as quietly as he can. Yes, he lights a candle for them, and Ben settles with Pan to calm him.

The room is bitterly cold, a storeroom for veggies, and it leads into another cellar. Alice worries Bonvie could put something on the door to trap them, but Malcolm's like, there's use freaking out about that you know there's has to be another exit the butler wouldn't have wanted to struggle with the trap door to get wine so there's probably proper stairs somewhere they just have to figure it out and make sure they don't die in the whole process of course as they discuss this they hear footsteps above leisurely moving pulling out a chair they shush they listen attentively a minute of silence goes by and they move into the second storeroom this one is for furniture not food and they move on to the next archway lighting another candle and finding a heavy wooden door with iron hinges and a huge lock malcolm examines the door closely, but a quiet voice then speaks to him from the other side. It's a fan yet? No, it's Gerard Bonneville. His voice is low. He says he assumes Malcolm

doesn't have the key to this door, or he'd have come out already, which would be most unfortunate for him, Alice, and Lyra. So suspenseful. Pullman's pulling out the guns here. I forgot how creepy crawly it is, right? Because this is the guy who just won't die, as we're, again, about to see happen. He's like a Terminator. Very much so. He is a Terminator-esque villain. Like, I've come for Lyra Bellacqua.

You know? Like, I must break you. Some of this horror and suspense is in the original books, right? It's more sinister as the series progresses. In some manners, the child murder is like, ah, this is awful and creepy that you're torturing children. Pullman's not one to shy away from that kind of feeling and that scary suspensefulness this book i have to remind myself how old malcolm is right because he is trying to be capable of manipulating a psycho killer here right like totally trying to figure it out trying to puzzle this guy out as we're about to see through the

door and play against him and gerard bonvy knows he he's like an adult killer, right? Like he's not just a little boy practicing at being a spy. This is not what I mean, as we know, Hannah did not want him to sign up for this. So Gerard Bonvy is like an adult murderer, Lord, Lord murderer, he likes Lord Murd for Lord murderer for a reason, right? And he knows what he's doing and saying to malcolm he's making subtle threats against alice's well-being and lyra's to elicit a response from malcolm in hopes that he fucks up and says the wrong thing uh in way of that like when lyra accidentally fucked up and said the wrong thing right with will in the subtle knife with giving away that she was with will for example which it's not really her fault, in my opinion.

People are evil. I don't know. He's up against a real one here. A crazy motherfucker. This is not a game anymore. This is not just pretend spying and reading books at Dr. Ralph's on a Saturday. This is some real stuff, as we're about to get into with the battle sequence in a bit. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Yeah, he's a little out of his depth here but he's doing the best he can his heart is about to burst out of his chest and asta begins to change lemur butterfly crow finally lemur crouching on his shoulders murmuring to him to not say a word but bonneville knows that he's, because he saw him talking to the house owner on the terrace. And Bonneville reminds him that this is an island, and that his canoe could meet an accident, and then they'd be marooned. And he carries on, giving his whole villain speech, which is oddly very, you know, confidential information and very personalized. And he tricks Malcolm into responding by asking asking can you see them by the way

malcolm says there's no one here but me and my demon but bonville disagrees i kind of just got the irony in that bon vie was like oh would be a shame to get marooned huh and afterwards when they finally get outside he's like would be ashamed to get marooned wouldn't it bonvi oh i didn't really put that together that he threatened it and then malcolm actually does it brilliant brilliant yeah he's like oh interesting idea and oh how let me just copy your homework another one that like occurs to me now is like they're all like where's the other stairs with the trap door as he's explaining i'm like there are no stairs because the children were murdered in there there's only a trap door is this a wine cellar it wasn't wine it was blood

that's all i that occurred to me as we were going through that. I was like, oh. Yeah, it's a trap door, right? Yeah, and the door locks. Traps. Okay. Yeah. Well, we have this speech with Bonvi and Malcolm, and it's actually pretty chilling.

I don't mean her. You and she are the same being, naturally. I mean someone besides you. Who do you mean, then? I hardly know where to start. There are spirits of the air and the earth to begin with. Once you learn to see them, you'll realize the world is thronged with them. And then in wicked places like this, there are night guests of many kinds. Yeah, so we get to that part that we were talking about,

where Bonneville asks Malcolm, so, do you know the history of this manor? And tells him it belonged to Lord Murdstone, and we used to call him Lord Murderer, because he would bring his victims here and dismember them alive, and they were children the agony of those children was just too great and it lingered in the air and soaked within the stonework we have a line that he tells malcolm there's no clean wind blowing through these

cellars malcolm the air you're breathing now was last in the lungs of those tortured children. And I... I disagree. I think that that's false. And that you'd think that an experimental theologian would be smart enough to know that that isn't how air fucking works. That air is different air now. Well, you know, I guess we don't technically know right like to be fair uh it does seem like he could be bullshitting right like he could absolutely be bullshitting um i mean like if you had a storeroom of goods and veggies and food and wine and furniture you'd probably want

to lock it so i mean there is a door with a lock and if you worked there you'd have the key this guy could just be lying right like first of all i do want to state that as we go on he's egging malcolm on with it right like because again he knows what gets a rise out of him murdering children uh this gets a rise out of malcolm because he's worried about lyra and alice I almost forgot about these parts, especially like the children's souls are in agony in the air and they're in the stones. Wow, this is an interesting chapter. And I think the framework of the chapter first is something so important because we start off this chapter with Malcolm trying to manipulate

the man who was quote unquote living at this this manor and he manipulates him into protecting them Alice Lyra him all by playing on oh if I was the owner right implying oh you're not the true owner you're not the real man man riling him up to be like well maybe I am I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the real owner of this house so there but this exact idea gets used against Malcolm by Bon Vie he's using a similar manipulation but it's better he's manipulating Malcolm by using the ownership of the building saying that the last guy who owned this building was not a good guy the last guy who owned this building used it for evil this is what the real owner of the building would actually do malcolm so where malcolm started off being like blah blah blah bonvi's killed that childlike manipulation he's flipped it right back on malcolm this is what the

owner did this murder is what the owner did and it has a lot of uh a lot of bull vanger vibes right like lots of bull vanger bull vanger banger vibes going on of like torturing children and severing them and dismembering them and it makes me wonder if maybe the person who did own this manor if it was real maybe they were doing that for you know dusty reasons we don't know we'll never know no i mean i think they were real i just think that air moves. It can't just all be the carbon dioxide that those children breathe anymore.

But I believe it's real, and if so, then there's almost like a poetry to it's a sad poetry to the fact that the next owner of this building in fact died protecting children. And yeah, I mean beyond

this part heralding to Bovanger there's other parts later in these chapters there's a lot of things about hurting children and yes as you said it's kind of thrust Malcolm into that role then of like are you the new owner now as well as like scary shits

in there otherwise I also hope that the children's ghosts aren't stuck here i i don't think we really see much of that in some of this series i i could be wrong in terms of what happens in the secret commonwealth but i feel like we you know um i hope that the children's ghosts they made it to the underworld and that lyra freed them and i mean they got a decade to wait don't they are so a decade and a little bit some change it's better than like being trapped in this stones of this place forever there's also like this creepy weird reverence right in the way that bonneville is like so fervorously like talks

about the true owner of this place he's like i'm a big fan like it comes across like that yeah it comes across like that it also comes across fake and like the fact that the guy's name was murdford and they called him lord murderer like it's straight up it's like your best believe in ghost stories malcolm because you're living in one you know right it does sound like a little made up yeah it feels like he's just trying to scare an 11 year old and malcolm does get pretty scared right like at first he tries to exit the conversation him Bon Vie is like, no, Malcolm, the spirits are flocking to your fear and soon you'll hear them and then see them. Malcolm does fall for it, hook, line,

sinker, just for a hot second. But then he stares at his candle and suddenly his floating grain of light comes back, the seed of his aurora. Feeling more hopeful from this, he tells Bonvie that he's wrong, and he's wrong about Lyra too. She's Azrael and Coulter's daughter, not his. Bonvie says, well, maybe you're wrong about my motivations. Maybe it's Alice I'm interested in. Asta whispers to Malcolm, don't let him talk about what he wants, and he nods. He suddenly remembers the wooden acorn, he wants and he nods he suddenly remembers the wooden acorn right way back when feels like years ago the wooden acorn and he asks mr bon vie what's the russikov field yeah and mr bonneville's quite taken aback by this because he's like how do you know what that is malcolm's like i don't know that's why i'm asking you which yes and bonneville's like well why don't you. That's why I'm asking you. Which, yes.

And Bonneville's like, well, why don't you ask Dr. Hannah Ralph? And now it's Malcolm's turn to be taken aback. He retorts that he has and she doesn't know about it because she studies the history of ideas. Bonneville says, well, I thought it would be right up her street and then springs it on Malcolm, asking, why are you so interested in this study? And Malcolm's spangle is growing all the while.

And it's described as a small drooled serpent twisting and twining for him alone. I love that imagery because it's going to connect in just a second to a couple of our other mentions of the Russikov field. First, Malcolm eggs him on and he says the gravitational field deals with the force of gravity, right? And the magnetic field deals with that force. So what force is it the Russikov field deals with? Bonvy responds, No one knows, kid. Malcolm asks if it could have to do with the uncertainty principle.

Aha! I love this. It's very clever. It reminds me of two big scenes from the original trilogy. The first scene it reminds me of that I won't go too deeply into is it does remind me a little bit of both Lyra meeting Mary Malone and kind of impressing her versus her meeting Boreal also in the museum and kind of impressing him with some of her knowledge. And there's more than that, right? There's a few mentions of Russikov in the museum and kind of impressing him with some of her knowledge. And there's more than that, right? There's a few mentions of Russikov in the first few books. The first mention we get of him is in Northern Lights. There's a man at Coulter's party who introduces the concept, right, while talking to some of the other people at the party and Lyra eavesdrops and talks with them. He says they don't interact with other particles, but they're attracted to adults or at the edge of adolescence,

which is why the oblation board was formed. So second, Lyra meets Lord Boreal at that party and tells him she knows about Russikov particles, and it's a very similar manner to here with Malcolm, right? She blurts it out like, oh, well, maybe it's something to do with Russikov. I know about dust, you know, trying to

show off a little bit and get information out of him as well and get a retort out of him. I thought that was pretty parallel to this. And lastly, we get a very, very detailed explanation with Lyra and Asriel at the end of northern lights about how that's

when innocence changes to experience oh and i'm sorry the very last one the fourth and final this is the last time we hear of it in the main series is lyra and mary malone in the subtle knife yeah great great point and it's interesting that he's like oh i thought that hannah ralph would be interested in it it sounds like bonneville knew that dust was part of what makes the alethiometers work and yes that's a good point especially because of the rucksack that malcolm's about to steal it kind of becomes uh again much like lyra's rucksack and the subtle knife right when she loses her alethiometer from leaving it and she grabs it and it's gone uh it's kind of a similar thing here he doesn't know what he's got yet yeah i will say it's interesting that they had hypothesized it has to do with the uncertainty principle and i'm not a

scientist not a physicist uh but it seems like it actually has nothing to do with the uncertainty principle and and that bonneville doesn't really i mean i guess he doesn't ascertain that he doesn't confirm that for malcolm malcolm was just spitting shit but i mean bonneville doesn't know how air works so is he that good of a scientist who knows yeah he gets taken down by two kids so yeah that's well i mean any scientist can get taken down by two kids but yeah many fictional books have proven this bonneville is silent for a few moments and then finally retorts saying that malcolm is a persistent child which is true but bonneville says were he what malcolm

he would be asking different questions and you're not malcolm that's the point and malcolm explains that he wanted to know about the field because it's connected to dust. And meanwhile, Alice is moving quietly through the archway and Malcolm mouths to her, Bonneville, and gestures for her to go while he has Bonneville occupied. He turns back to Bonneville, who's giving a speech about how some things you can explain to an elementary school pupil but others move quickly out of range experimental theology the rusekoff field is one of them i do think malcolm is as before doing a lot of really smart manipulating here right and keeping bonneville talking even

though obviously at the same time bonneville is trying to manipulate him so interesting battle the wits here malcolm looks around silently to find that alice was gone but bonneville hears the motion and this is like is it that girl alice malcolm's like no it's just me which bonneville reminds him again of the tortured souls he begins to say those dead children did i tell you what he did to their demons it was the most ingenious but then malcolm just associates through it mouthing not true to himself all throughout it. Alice and Lyra have already gone, and he just has to study himself, keeping the candle lit and carrying forward to climb silently and slowly. This didn't really stick out as much on first read, but now on reread, this scene is actually so interesting because it seems like Bonvi might be breaking and peppering some truth

in between some of these lies i think he might be hyperbolizing about the child murder going on but bonvi is telling him the answer to maybe some of the things to deal with russikov particles and when they you know connect right uh as some research later in the original trilogy tells us murdered children the agony of their souls creating a spark possibly oh interesting interesting i have some thoughts i don't know if this is like tinfoil or theorycrafting truly i guess anything's game you know nowadays but if he's chasing after lyra so much and he's so mad about something to deal with marisa colter who got him locked up for something and later marisa colter opens the ablation board to carry on research dealing with these exact particles and how to kind of

recreate these particles and what they do basically, their field. Did she enhance his research, bro? Yeah, I think so. I think she built on some of them. Yeah. Did she steal his research,

get him locked up through the courts and and as a witness when he was getting locked up, get him nailed in jail? And steal his research? Is this a thought? Is that why he's trying to kill Lyra? I think it- I mean, I almost wonder if it's a combination of things. I believe that he could have assaulted Mrs. Coulter just based on all the other character stuff we've seen on him. But also, I also

believe that Marisa could have stolen some of his research. I do believe what Lord Asriel said at the end of Northern Lights to Lyra is true, right? Because he was saying that Marisa was a very smart scientist and she was the one who first discovered that there is a connection between the time that a demon settles and when dust begins to settle.

But the other stuff might have been something that she built on maybe some of the stuff that Bonneville was willing to do. I don't know. He seems to know a lot about children's deaths and the agony it brings their souls. Yeah. know a lot about children's deaths and the agony it brings their souls yeah i mean i i don't know that he got it at the same i maybe marisa like figured it out while they were researching together or something but i i think that she right she has to have made discoveries she was also a brilliant mind oh yeah no it could be both i mean he might have had the research and

not intended to do the thing with it after all i don't know or like did he assault her and then she stole his research or something like that yeah i don't know i i don't uh i just don't know yeah i don't think we will ever know, actually. I'm going to be honest with you. Really? We might have thought about this more than anyone else. That's a way to put it, Chloe. It's a diplomatic way to put it.

I'll take me responding to that. What is kind of deep, or not that deep anymore, is where Malcolm is in in this place in this castle because he gets to the trap door here's nothing but his heartbeat so he pushes himself into the door and up he goes he's about to race to the door but remembers that there is a kitchen and if the cooks were like sister finella or his mother they'd have knives but unlike malcolm his mother and sister finella i do not keep my knives in a drawer I keep them in a block I'm not an animal yeah right

it's also dangerous yeah exactly just keep them in a drawer like that depending on how you're sashing them in the drawer he picks the best choice the concealable one that's enough to do some damage puts it in his belt and he goes out to the boat

where he sees Alice and Lyra stumbling forward as fast as they can. Bonvy's boat is tied off, but the body of the man has floated away. He unhooks the dinghy's anchor, and he pushes Bonvy's boat away from land, hoping this will give them better survival odds. He also had grabbed Bonvy's rucksack during this, and he runs toward Alice, who was tugging LaBelle Sauvage out of a bush. Lyra is in the grass next to her, but within a moment, they hear the laughter of the hyena. The ha! Ha! Ha! And Bonvy is sauntering down the grass, shotgun under his arm, and the hyena follows, as if on an invisible leash. Ugh, poor demon. I know. as if on an invisible leash. Ugh, poor demon. They can't get the boat into the water in time and Bonvi is only a few strides away. He moves the gun to his left hand and says they might as well hand over the child.

They have no hope of getting away now. Malcolm holds Lyra closer, asking why he wants her and Alice is like, because he's a bloody pervert. True. Go Alice. Bonneville laughs and alice and malcolm are on high alert tense beside each other mal tries to keep his attention to keep him from discovering that his own boat is actually god and malcolm

then accuses bonneville of lying how can someone just go on the internet and tell lies about the house's dark history lyra is quiet against his chest with asta calming her and pan and malcolm feels for the knife in his belt his arms are trembling and he fears he'll drop the knife he wonders did he really even intend to stab him because malcolm's never been the violent type even in the few fights that he's been in and bonville asks how would he know what the truth is? And Malcolm says that his voice changes when he says something untrue. Malcolm

continues to feel for the knife, and Bonneville is surprised that Malcolm believes that sort of thing. And he then hysterically says, I suppose you believe that the last thing someone sees is imprinted on their retina. And Malcolm doesn't believe that the last thing someone sees is imprinted on their retina and malcolm doesn't believe that but i don't know this is not like the plot of some jessica alba horror movie that

i didn't watch oh was it the one awake where like she like i i think so i don't know i i'd have to look at that or like the way where they get the eye transfer maybe that was yeah wasn't she awake the entire time during that surgery wasn't that the plot or something and then like there's some i don't know my mom watched it and it fucked her up man she was like that that really fucked me up and i'm like dude same with spider verse on acid anyways i was like they're very different, but okay. I do love that Malcolm is just like, no, literally, I do not believe that because I just saw my spangle thing and it blows my eye up and then it goes away all the time. So I know for a fact, I don't believe the last thing someone sees is imprinted on their retina, Mr. Bonvy. last thing someone sees is imprinted on their retina mr bone v and like i do love he did call him mr bone v earlier which is the cutest thing in the world because it's like you know even though this murderer is here to fuck your world up you're still respectful malcolm yeah he asks bone v why

he wants lyra and bone v lies he's like well she's my daughter i want to give her a decent education and malcolm's like no we'll need a better answer than that then bonvi says i'm gonna roast her and eat her and alice spits at him this is honestly this is about to get crazy i just want to warn you guys like this is a little bit of world star going on um he speaks to alice and he's like bon vie is like we could have been such friends alice maybe even more than friends we shouldn't let such a little thing spoil that and alice kind of sees out of the corner of her eye malcolm's pulling the knife out in the dark and she moves a little closer and he moves a little closer yeah i mean like oh just like him being like alice you could have been like maybe more than friends and i'm like oh my god get a job gerard just like leave alice alone she's a baby

it's really hard i mean she's 16 sex offender to get a job literally actually though literally malcolm shifts libra's weight and he acts as if he's going to give her to bone v right holds her out but then he stabs the knife into bone v's thigh hard as fuck and bone v howls in agony with his demon and he drops the gun and he's grabbing his leg and malcolm turns to put lyra down and suddenly there's an explosion so loud it knocks him flat and alice is holding the gun standing over bone v he's groaning rocking in the grass bleeding his demons thrashing her foreleg her last foreleg the hyena's foreleg is smashed beyond repair oh that's sad i feel bad for the it's sad uh actually you know now that i mentioned it maybe lyra thinks

that alice is her daddy you know oh takes hot takes maybe malcolm shouts for alice to take lyra and drags out the canoe alice throws the gun into the trees snatches lyra up evades the crawling bong v and gets to the boat. I would have taken the gun. Malcolm has to close his eyes. The sight is far too disgusting to look at. It's pitiful. It's awful. He pushes it off, and they escape out into the breast of the flood, letting the water carry them away.

And that brings us to chapter 19, The Poacher. A nearly full moon hides behind clouds, and Lyra is just, you know, as she is, happily gurgling away as they sway. I was curious if the moon symbolized anything here, like any omens. I suppose this is probably like a waxing gibbous moon, right? Right before the full moon. And I don't know, I found a few things online that people think it symbolizes refinement, where people form a plan and take action. But Malcolm is about to have his plans interrupted in this chapter. I mean, he's taking some action.

I wonder if it's also meant to sort of be an indication of timing. Because wasn't there a full moon when Lord Asriel visited? Yeah, yeah, it's been about a month then, huh? Yeah, nearly. The stress has alleviated for the moment. Malcolm is feeling a little looser. They move quickly. Alice continues to stare back as they vanish.

She's sharp, anxious, and angry. She bends over to tend to Lyra. And she's like, do you want a biscuit? And Malcolm ignores it. He's like, oh, she's talking to Lyra. But no, she's actually talking to him. And he's surprised. He jokes he'd love a steak and kidney pudding.

Me too. And lemonade. And she's like, shut up. All we have are biscuits. It's notable these are figgy biscuits, such as like a Fig Newton, for those of you in the U.S. who might not understand. Yes. And our friend Warren messaged us to tell us exactly what to expect in terms of these biscuits. And yes, we do have Fig Newtons in the US.

We're not animals, Warren. Jesus. I know we sound raunchy and don't know what things are all the time, but we're not animals. God. Yeah, just because I don't know what a milk float is doesn't mean I've never eaten a Fig Newton. Now you're like, you guys can't have tea with the queen okay anyways i'm gonna have tea with the queen of my heart chloe oh i would have you oh well they seem to have lost gerard bonneville for now but malcolm's worried he's mad and he worried because bonneville is mad and mad people don't know when to give up and alice said well malcolm must be mad then too damn got him uh alice thinks that gerard's dead by now and malcolm agrees because he was bleeding

a lot and his demon can't live long either. The clouds part letting moonlight through and they look around the quiet world of water. There are tiny insects buzzing. It's all they can hear. Bread from the waters. And he mentions to Alice that he should guard Lyra from them. And Alice says, well this isn't like a mosquito

it's a boat, turns out. It was a searchlight on the boat. Yeah, they worry it's gerard but they don't know how he would have gotten a boat they do know that people are out looking for them so they work to paddle and hide and malcolm is so tired he just wants to cry he's like i just want to cry i feel that mood he doesn't want to cry in front of lyra though so he grits his teeth presses on and they push into hills and woodlands but they don't lose the search vote so malcolm decides to pull in so they can hide or fight or something whatever he heads toward what looks like a stone embankment or maybe a

roof and they retreat up the slope alice holding lyra shivering the search light comes back around the moon shines down again and they just stay very still the light points at them but then the light and the launch move past them and they finally can breathe the fear Malcolm's been repressing finally comes back up and he gets really upset nauseated feels sick Alice comforts him and again very surprised by that and she tells him you'll feel better in a minute lyra starts to cry he distracts her with the torch in the canoe and he starts to chat with her very casually but then he realizes i'm actually really scared right now flipping a shit getting real freaked out can't figure out why i'm scared because the danger is gone bone v's pretty much dead back there. He asks Alice, are you scared?

She responds she is, but not that much. If it were just her she would be, but with both of us I feel better. Aww. Friends. They are friends. As friends they walk toward the slope of wood, gathering branches and twigs,

hoping to make a fire, but when he comes back Alice is desperate because the searchlight has returned. The boat has the air of being official, like the police or the CCD searching for someone, and it would see them soon, but suddenly the branches part and out comes

Beyonce! Beyonce? Mr. Boatwright? We haven't seen him in like 200 pages. I thought he was dead. I actually, honestly, the first time that I was reading this, I was so happy that he was alive. I was like, there's some glimmer of hope in this place if Boatwright made it out. Not much, right? It's pretty dark for a little bit more of this book, but that was a glimmer of hope. right it's pretty dark for a little bit more of this book but that was a glimmer of hope and mr boat right is like hide the boat further in the trees and bring the baby out he says the boat out

there is a ccd boat and they better hurry they empty their boat turning it upside down in case it rains again and begin to move with the boat with the searchlight getting closer lyra's upset and boat right gives a drop of wine to her to keep her quiet they comment they're like man we should have tried this earlier how smart mood that's me you just got to give me a couple drops of wine too and i quiet right up drops is a way to put it um the boat stops shining its light straight on boatwright and malcolm but they stay very still, still concealed by the trees, and the CCD men move on

from them. Mr. Boatwright asks last time they ate her sled, which Malcolm can't remember, and brings him into a cave to have some stew. I really love the way that Lyra's two cave plots are being brought back in in this book. Malcolm is

entering a cave that is full of knowledge right not just boatwright's knowledge with some of his knowledge of the ccd vehicles and some of the stuff going on but mrs simpkin ends up hashing out all of this different knowledge to them about the priory later when they need to retrieve lyra and when they do save Lyra, Lyra's been drugged. Like that one time. Yeah, and she's also stolen from this cave. Yeah, kidnapped and caves. So there's some themes, some strong themes.

Yeah, parallels. Mr. Boatwright asks if Malcolm needs help with his rucksack, but Malcolm shakes his head and I love that Mr. Boatwright just accepts it and helps him put it over his shoulders they come to a clearing where alice had been feeding lyra with a little bit of wine feeding's a way to put it too she hands lyra to malcolm so she can go use the bathroom and they plan to bring any other supplies in from the canoe for lyra mr boatwright directs them to

spread the blanket on the ground and bundle all the items and he wraps it up and swings the bundle over his shoulder. They begin their five minute trek and Alice takes Lyra from him after a bit to spread the weight. Then Alice notes that Mal is wearing Bonneville's rucksack and he confirms that he stole it from his boat. He has no clue why he took the bag but thought I don't know maybe Dr. Ralph could find interest in it and of course thinking of Dr. Ralph and her warm house with all the books in the history sure does bring a pain to his heart because he's like what if i'm forced to be a fugitive and outlaw like mr boat right for the rest of his life he's like what if i could never go back i mean you're being a little dramatic first of all

but he's exhausted i like about him honestly uh he's a little melodramatic but you know what i was too with that i i was too last year and at that age too so i'm still melodramatic is what i'm trying to tell you it's aries season it's aries season they finally come to a clearing with a large rock jutting out of the ground and the moon shines down on a handful of people gathered round a fire men women two children eating from tin plates mrs boat writes there and she says hello to alice she knows Alice's mom. She introduces herself to them as Audrey, asking who the baby is. Malcolm introduces Lyra, and Audrey shows them where they can change and take care of Lyra, offering them food before sleep. It turns out they're in the Chilterns. The other people in

the cave are in similar positions, most of them on the run from the government, and she advises them don't poke around too closely at them, you know him their privacy after they take care of lyra a boy that's malcolm's age at the campfire offers to show him where to throw their garbage this boy's name is andrew and he's asking a lot of questions malcolm isn't really inclined to answer a lot of them he decides he doesn't want to be that rude and so he asks andrew how he came to the cave. Andrew and his aunt have been flooded out, and he mentions, there hasn't been a flood like this since Noah's time. Andrew then follows up and says, this will last for 40 days and 40 nights. Wink, wink, I get it, Pullman. It's a reference.

Big red flag, though, right? This 10, 11-year-old is creepily into this flood and religious lore, and he's like, 40 days, though, right? Like, this 10, 11-year-old is, like, creepily into this flood and religious lore. And he's like, 40 days, Noah, his ark. Okay. Yeah. New person, you know? Like, pull it back. Absolutely.

He's all like, the evil's gonna be washed from the world. I mean, he doesn't say it, but he's thinking it. And it's like, yeah, it's you, Andrew. I'm sorry. But, I mean, I get why he thinks that, right? Because I mean, even the readers, right, are thinking of it a little because Pullman is referencing it in some ways along with other stories. Like, I mean, Lyra as baby Moses. A lot of things going on.

But Andrew asks about Alice and Lyra and Malcolm tells him their names because it's kind of hard to lie about it when everyone else kind of knows his name. He thanks him for showing them the pit, though Andrew seems a bit put out. When Malcolm returns, Alice is feeding Lyra, and Audrey brings them some stew, taking Lyra so that they can eat. After eating, Malcolm feels his eyes begin to close, so he pushes himself to take Lyra and stay awake, and Mr. Bo boatwright brings a bundle of blankets and canvas bags stuffed with hay malcolm puts lyra in between him and alice

and they all fall asleep together lyra wakes him crying in the morning full of poop and malcolm makes moves to go change her but then you know alice wakes up and he's just like thank god and now because alice is all like you're gonna do it wrong so maybe i should just do it malcolm's like amazing yes this is what i hoped for um at dawn they wake and whisper to keep from waking everyone else and alice puts another log on the fire heating lyra's saucepan and fills up the cask of fresh water outside while she waits for the pan to heat malcolm walks up and down with lyra in the meantime watching the sleepers in the cave it seems like they multiplied in the night or maybe they just like packed in and he hadn't seen them or maybe they had just been

poaching for the group asta whispers to malcolm to look at pan pan is in kitten form and unwittingly pan is kneading the flesh of malcolm's hand with his claws malcolm is kind of shocked he feels astonished shy privileged the passage is great the great taboo against touching another's demon was not instinctual but learned then he felt a wave of love for the child and her demon but that made no difference to them because lyra was still grizzling and panalaman soon let go of malcolm's hand and became a toad a toad that's foreshadowing this feels bigger than it looks uh the taboo is learned instinct. This speaks to a lot of prejudices, right, that we as humans have learned, like segregating ourselves by skin color and class and committing violence and taking power against others, for example,

and, you know, losing our human connection or our connection to humanity. We won't know, for example, if Asriel would have sacrificed Lyra in the northern lights had roger not been there right we don't know if but we do know he had a pretty crazed look in his eye when she showed up on the doorstep you know he was hungry okay and he was willing to eat child flesh for it uh but like what if he had spent time in lyra's childhood and knew Roger and had cared for him or had seen them grow up together like my mom would never have been able to murder my best friend for science because she would have been watching us and making sure we weren't off being assholes and would have been like wow these kids are beautiful with great souls you know what I mean like interesting that Azrael was so disconnected from his humanity that he was able just to do a child murderer thing.

Real easy, you know, just bloop. Malcolm's been told his whole life stuff, like, not wholly dissimilar to stuff, like, the church telling us things all the time that might not always be true. Sometimes they say some highly heinous false shit. Like, ah, no no that's taboo boys can't like boys you know shit like that and i don't know i think there's something interesting in respecting consent of like touching someone's demon and like intimacy as you get older right like you wouldn't touch someone's demon unless you were very intimately vulnerable with the other person and like you trusted the other person complicitly but Malcolm realizing this at such a young age is pretty big

kids understand the world a lot better than us in many ways I think and uh I think this will probably come back in the future in a bigger way in the plot right it becomes normalized for Asta and Malcolm to kind of handle pan and lyra throughout the rest of the book that also i mean they get put in situations where that has to happen they have to be very close together they have to go through drains and stuff soon but it's interesting i don't know and it also reminds me a lot of the only other time we see someone okay with the demon touching in the story so close which is Will and Lyra right? With Pan.

Yeah. That's an interesting interesting parallel. I can directly stare into the camera now. Did you guys hear that silence i wonder if though like as you're saying right about it being a learned and not necessarily a

tab like it's a learned taboo right if i wonder if many parents or caretakers end up accidentally like touching their children's demons right and their demons don't know and the parents are the ones who condition it out of them or teach them not to or something i mean it seems not though because like it's the taboo is taught you know like literally it seems that these people are taught that through everyday life not to do that like lyra thinks it's taboo as well no i mean like the babies like the babies don't know, and the baby demons, like, end up doing something like what Pan's doing, right? And then they are just like, whatever, gonna touch mom and dad's arm. But I think family, too, might be different, right? Like, I guess they just appear, obviously, when the kid appears, the demon appears.

It just, poof, there it is. obviously, when the kid appears, the demon appears, it just, poof, there it is. But I can imagine Stelmaria and Pan, for example, could have shared a moment before where they were snuggled up. I can imagine Asriel picking up Pan for something.

I don't think, I don't know if that necessarily is taboo, but again, it seems like one of those things the church is probably teaching that it's taboo like you know like don't have sex before marriage because you'll die you know what i mean that's a good point yeah it seems maybe it's like magisterium taught that it's like it's wrong to connect with another person in this level it's wrong to be vulnerable to anyone but the magisterium which is where you

should be vulnerable and give us your body and your life and your money. Especially because we see that the Magisterium themselves, right, they do break that taboo in Bolvanger. And they feel entitled to do so. Yeah. To control the children. And that's part of the taboo, right? Because when you aren't careful with it, when you aren't doing it consensually, it gives you such power over someone else as we saw uh with the way it affects lyra when pan is touched i mean we see exercise throughout

the series even right like even with uh like lyra and coulter in the fight yeah but like coulter doesn't touch pan directly but but the scientist does. Yeah, that's true. Malcolm remembers, though, what they did to Bonneville the night before and wonders if the CCD came along the man with the hyena demon with a knife in his thigh. They're like, so are they going to hunt down Malcolm and Alice now? Is Bonneville dead? Then Alice moves quietly with Malcolm, and before heading back into the cave, they exchange a look. Malcolm would never forget this look. There's a line. It was deep and complex and close and it touched every part of him,

body and demon and ghost. I love that, that holy trinity, body and demon and ghost. It reminds me a bit of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, right? In talking about that bond again with soul and mate, demon and human, I really like this platonic friendship that's bloomed with Alice and Malcolm in the last two chapters. It's really caught my eye, this read.

It's interesting because there's just so much thought of souls. I know we've discussed a few different kind of angles before, like Plato and Socrates in the podcast, and different just ideas on souls. I know we've discussed a few different kind of angles before, like Plato and Socrates in the podcast, and different just ideas on souls. And I do want to bring up this concept that I really love that shows up in Judaism in a few ways, and also exists in Christianity in a bit. And it's the treasury of souls or the chamber of creation, Guth. God has basically a tree of souls or the chamber of creation guth god has basically a tree of souls and all souls are blossomed from the tree it has produced all souls that have ever existed originally it was thought there were only 600 000 souls and boy did they have to do some mental gymnastics when over 600 000 people were alive let me tell you they were like shit there are more than this many people living in the city

of the district of columbia and they're not a state that's not a real place eliana well the solution that they had come up with to explain these over 600 000 people that were alive is the sparks of souls basically jewish souls did not receive a soul upon birth after all originally they thought that basically you know the souls grew on the tree your body was born a soul floated down and joined your body which kind of reminds me a bit of the series right where you are born and your demon appears uh But then they decided that Jewish souls did not receive souls, but sparks of souls, so parts of their souls, which is kind of not dissimilar to the idea of shattering of the vessel. And they received basically the offspring of the original 600,000 souls, which led to this concept of beshert, or seeking your destined one to complete your soul.

So it's a really interesting concept. It's kind of heavily related with tikkun olam and the shattering of the vessels of humans basically being put on earth to seek sparks of good, find them, and then to do good and help others to complete their souls. Like a big jigsaw puzzle of life and of repairing the world, right? complete their souls like a big jigsaw puzzle of life and of repairing the world right and all of this like misfortune that's befallen the world and people and like finding what completes your soul and help repairing the world and i don't know maybe we're just all searching for the rest of our souls for our whole physical time on earth and maybe it's not just one soulmate right like maybe everyone you meet has a little bit of a spark that is part of completing your soul and keeping your soul thriving and maybe that's what friendship is the souls you find along

the way you know like the real a song of ice and fire yeah keeping ulam i like that it's different from i think the platonic idea of love. Not platonic friendship, but platonic romance in which there were soulmates and shit. So, yeah. And if you're interested in a different interpretation on The Chamber of Gough, please go check out Evangelion, another series Chloe and I also really like.

Yes, absolutely. A aston malcolm head toward the rubbish pit to ditch lyra's diaper and they both keep an eye out for the boy andrew from the night before they hadn't seen him and something is fishy about the kid and it is because he's a fucking narc and when they returned audrey's holding Lyra while Alice prepares milk. And Audrey asks who Lyra's mother was and what happened to bring them here. And Malcolm explains, well, the Priory collapsed and Sister Manala had watched over Lyra. Glossing over like, oh, they're probably dead now. They got out just in time, but then they were swept away. Audrey keeps asking if he knows who Lyra's family is, he keeps lying and saying oh no he doesn't some of

the cave residents have begun to stir and Malcolm asks Audrey who the rest of the families are that are staying here she mentions her own son Simon and his kids and Malcolm asks about the boy Andrew from the night before and she says oh he's Doris Witcher's nephew. Points her out, still asleep. They came from Wallingford Way. And Audrey admires how hungry Lyra is. And Malcolm notes that there's no sign of Andrew. And I just want to say, you know, bless the boatwrights. You know, I'm glad that they're alive and well. And they're just lovely throughout all of this.

Yeah, and it's really sad because in a bit we're about to be scared for them. Yeah, they don't deserve this they've been through enough yeah but it is interesting how they're framed here because like they're framed as the dumb adults like uh did you read the series of unfortunate events series i read like a book in it a random one in the middle well basically each of their caretakers is like worse than the last until they just get handed over straight to the villain and like each of their caretakers they get put with one and like they find the good in them and they're like wow what sweet person too bad about this fatal flaw that becomes a literal fatal flaw and each one of them dies because

they're an idiot and like they don't listen to the kids the kids are always like wait that's count olaf the villain and the caretakers are like now dear i think i'd know and like they don't listen to the kids the kids are always like wait that's count olaf the villain and the caretakers are like now dear i think i'd know and then they get murdered you know and that's kind of what this feels like in a way that like the boatwrights like now listen you're safe here you don't have to worry everything's fine no one's gonna turn you into the ccd here like we know we vetted everyone you're safe here. And you just know something's gonna go wrong. Yeah, it can't last. But it would be nice had they found this fountain.

Yeah, I wish it could last. I really do wish it could last for them. But Malcolm announces, we won't be staying long. We'll leave when the rain stops. And the Boatwright's like, no, no, stay as long as you want. You're safe. Everyone here has to be careful of their identity. Mr. Boatwright motions for Malcolm to come with him, and he's like, ah, ever de-feathered a chicken kid? And he's like, uh, yeah, all the time at the inn. And they start

discussing what happened after he vanished at the inn that day. Malcolm tells him the officers had come back, asking a lot of questions. one said anything a couple guys were like oh yeah that boatwright has evil dark powers he could have become invisible mr ccd man mr boatwright's kind of amused at that one his wife isn't she's in the background like yeah i think i'm sure that's so funny george he tells malcolm that you always have to have an escape route when the time comes and to never hesitate a single second which I think is some pretty good foreshadowing for what comes at the end of the book right when Malcolm has to kill uh Gerard that that feels pretty pretty significant they had come here after the trout taking hidden pathways across the woods and he explains to

Malcolm you could take hidden pathways to London and no one would know where you went. The resourcefulness of the boat rides also kind of reminds me a little bit of the spirit of the Egyptians, right? How they know all the different routes and pathways and the way that they've been very open and caring for all these different people

and just took in Malcolm, Alice, and Lyra. So. Yeah, there's a lot of it in the secret commonwealth that we won't spoil, but there's that feeling you get to see that of some Egyptians there. And he has that same feeling of just like generosity. Yeah. And their names are boat, right? And the Egyptians live on boats.

Hell, you know who reminds me a bit of him? Not quite as much in this book. And again, no spoilers, but Bunchlessinger. Huh. Okay. Okay. Yeah. of him not quite as much in this book and again no spoilers but bunch lessinger huh okay okay yeah that's sort of happy-go-lucky kind of vibe yep you're like was this that lucky like yeah for sure i'm like i don't know but good for you when the flood came uh everyone moved higher up from the spot in which they were hiding, which is now the highest land in Berkshire, and Mr. Boatwright says that the water

is on their side, which Malcolm doesn't really understand, and he explains it to him. The creature's in the water, Malcolm. I don't mean fish, neither. Nor water voles. I mean the old gods. Old Father Tem. I seen him a few times with his crown and his weeds and his trident. He's on our side.

The bloody CCD. They won't never win against Old Father Tem. And other beings as well. There was a man with us. He saw a mermaid near Henley. The sea was so full she cut right up the river even that far from the coast and this chap he swore to me that if he saw that mermaid again he'd go off with her well two days later he disappeared and chances are he did just that i believe it anyway i love that this is kind of

like that birth of magic in this story the bigger birth we've seen a little bit of magic a few magical things you've got the the oscillating light around malcolm's eyeball coming out that he can see and no one can i mean demons come on that's ridiculous too but talking souls uh but the next book and we don't even have to talk about the plot but the next book is called the secret commonwealth it's influenced by the secret commonwealth of elves fauns and fairies by robert kirk and i do feel like labelle sauvage has a lot more of to the eye magic right like there's a lot of magic that surfaces the next couple chapters get a little trippy uh there's a lot ahead for malcolm alice and lyra and not just here with father tem and the mermaids.

Mermaids aren't in the first book, and Father Tem isn't actually spoken about as a figure like this either before La Belle Sauvage. So Pullman obviously got really inspired with the idea of the secret commonwealth of these creatures and of magic. And I think it's really good framework in a storytelling way when you want to continue this magical, youthful series. And you've already kind of given a lot of the big answers. There's definitely a lot that we don't know about the series as far as like dust and the way things work. Some things are kind of mysterious and more divine than anything that we just might not ever know in some manners. But I think him adding these new elements is great. It allows him to continue on the story without letting it get old or letting it get kind of like we already know that dude. And I'm interested to see how he ties all of it together with a lot of the politics from the next book into that last book. It works really well as we get prepared with the fairy that we're

going to meet and her seduction right of lyra alice and malcolm and that bubble of innocence and experience that gets projected over the children as well as the great gate within the waters absolutely and and so i like that this is you know priming us for shit's about to get weird and even bonneville was doing that a little right i mean he was wrong but he was doing that a little yeah he was opening it up like this shit's gonna get weirder and there's gonna be some ghouls and some ghasts and it's interesting who's who who's a trustworthy source for that and who isn't and that's another thing right that makes him feel a little bit like the gyptians right

that he knows about this sort of secret commonwealth that exists Audrey jokes though that if that man who followed a mermaid went in after her well he's probably bloody cold

then Audrey takes the chicken from Mal motioning to warm up and gets some cheese and bread from the bin. Malcolm cuts some thick slices for him and Alice, and Doris Witcher then wakes up. She smells thick of alcohol, and she asks if anyone's seen Andrew, her nephew. And Malcolm actually hasn't seen him, he offers,

and she asks, well, wait, who the fuck are you? And he figures there's just no use in lying and says that he's Malcolm Polstad, because everyone else here knows that he's Malcolm Polstad. Dor doris groans in her hangover lying back down and malcolm brings a snack to alice someone bring doris a snack holy shit she needs to eat if she's hung over some protein i know bring her some cheese and soak that up malcolm sits down yeah the bread too he remembers fuck we're murderers we killed Bonneville

Asta flies over to Ben whispering to him and Malcolm watches Mrs. Boatwright show Lyra off to everyone he watches someone tend to the chicken gutting it and thinks well that's not gonna feed everyone I'm like well good thing you're about to leave Malcolm

it is sad though actually uh they finally feel safe again for the first time in a while around adults that they can trust after finding so many other suspicious adults who have been terrible and then andrew goes and fucks it all up you know doris is a total mood too she's like hung over as shit girl i'd be that drunk too if i had a shitty like alt-right nazi child you know that i had to look after you saw knives out right yes no i actually haven't i actually haven't yet uh this isn't like a spoiler it's just a character that's in it but there is a character that uh is a young teen boy that's a total alt-right nazi troll and he just like the family busts out about it at one point they're

like your nazi son sat in the bathroom trolling on fucking twitter for whatever hours jacking off it's very funny and that's how i feel about this andrew kid it's like uh you know very presentable and smiles that face and then it's like oh no he turns out he's a fash he He's a mini fash. Oh, shit. Oh, he is. He is. No one defends him. I know. Not me. I won't. You know that motherfucker is like a Ben Shapiro stan.

Oh, absolutely. Oh, he's a Tory. Sorry. I forgot. Wrong place. He's a total Tory. Take back the Nazi comments, everyone. I'll put it into words.

You understand. What a fucking Tory. Little fucking mini fascist alice moves closer and asks if malcolm trusts boat right because things are kind of getting weird here and they need to move soon he comes clean and he's like let me tell you about this kid andrew and my suspicions and at that moment doris ends up stumbling to the fireplace and sitting down very heavily alice glares at her she doesn't really notice for a minute but then she takes notice of them and is like why you want to know where andrew is and malcolm explains andrew brought something up that really interested me miss winter and doris is like is it that bloody league and malcolm's like oh my god the League of Saint Alexandria is he a member and she's like yes yes

he is and everything happens very quickly Alice runs to Mrs. Boatwright who's speaking to a woman Lyra's on her hip and Malcolm goes immediately to George asking him which path to take to get to the boat George and Audrey at first are nonchalant they're like no no stay here don't worry but then everything changes. A man in a dark uniform shows up and is trying to get Lyra from Mrs. Boatwright. Three more spread out to guard the cave beyond him. And lurking, half ashamed, half proud, is Andrew. You little shit!

You little fucker. It all blurs. Malcolm and Alice get close to getting Lyra, but the next moment Malcolm's hit in the head, sprawled, concussed on the ground, and Alice is biting someone. He calls out, very dizzy, Lyra, I'm coming!

But one of the men knocks Audrey Boatwright over on top of him, and he tries to get up again. Yes, and so the chapter ends with someone was wailing and crying, but it wasn't Lyra. Someone else a long way off was shouting, a woman's voice, incoherent with rage and helplessness.

Audrey Boatwright began to sob as she found her husband unconscious beside her. But the dark uniformed men were gone, and Lyra was gone with them it's real hard to keep track of this girl i'm really worried about that girl lyra and that puts us into chapter 20 the sisters of the holy obedience malcolm is finally able to move the cave is revolving around him. As he gets up, he falls over immediately and almost vomits and asked is like, you cannot stand up yet.

You have to lie down. But of course he works through the concussion like any normal 11 year old chubby nerd would do and gets up in a frenzy of rage because he has to go deal with the smug, up in a frenzy of rage because he has to go deal with the smug obnoxious fake pious andrew look i know this is fantasy but like i don't know i don't know how you could just get up through your concussion malcolm as a kid people do it you know it's not realistic i'm sorry it's not realistic as somebody who's been concussed before it's not realistic yeah maybe maybe it was wild or maybe he's not concussed i mean the room sure ain't not spinning right now uh he puts his hands up in defense but malcolm knocks them aside hitting him in the face and he falls over crying he calls for his aunt who comes along to ask what he's done. And Malcolm kicks the boys curled up in the ground asking who those men were.

Yeah, so something's interesting here, right? Between what we're seeing in the changes in Malcolm, these chapters, between Malcolm learning to square up to stab Bonneville and how he beats Andrew up. I think, first of all, we're seeing that Malcolm's picking up some interesting interrogation skills to go along with this whole child spy shtick. But also another thing, right? Between, you know, the sudden bravery he finds and now this violence that he's showing towards Andrew. Is this supposed to sort of be like a sort of parallel to Will?

Will Perry. There's a lot of will parallels going on here and the violence does feel similar like the uh oh my god fired the uh the witch and everything obviously later and how he will kind of attacks the witch that feels very similar i don't know it's weird because some chapters he feels like he's 11 12 years old old, and then other chapters he's 18. Yeah. All of a sudden, some chapters he has physical prowess and...

It's odd. At 10 or 11, I had a lot of physical prowess, so... Maybe that's it. Maybe that's my problem, but I don't know. I was probably in the best shape of my life at 11 years old and it's all just been downhill from there man maybe you should stock back up on the vitamin c

you know doris begins to try to pull malcolm off of andrew and malcolm continues to pummel the boy stomping on doris's fingers again things are getting a little world star he's just wheeling out on everyone and then alice gets in on it right andrew's like you broke my jaw and alice shows up and she starts slapping and scratching at andrew she pulls doris off melicum this is a mess this is all messy y'all are trending on world star right now and the boy's mouse demon is squealing and screaming and cowering behind them and finally he confesses that the men were probably ccd and malcolm's like that's the wrong uniform liar and andrew's like that's all i know and the cave behind them is in total disarray during this audrey is trying to wake unconscious george boatwright. Alice is tugging at Malcolm's sleeve.

She's like, hey, there's this rando, small, wiry man with a vixen demon who's here. And he says that they aren't CCD, they're security of the Holy Spirit. This is interesting. It's the first real time we hear of this. On comparison, from real life, there life there are many like historical militias but the sovereign military order of malta comes to mind most here they were a catholic militia that dates back to like 1048 they rose especially during the crusades as you can imagine many catholic militias probably did they took on the military defense of the sick the pilgrims

and the captured territories the order had a large number of local priories and associations around the world but they also still exist a number of organizations with similar sounding names that are unrelated and i thought this was so interesting that they have like a bunch of organizations that are seeking to capitalize on the name that have similar names just kind of reminds me of the magisterium with their 800 different boards though yeah yeah who knows what's real and what's not this order also guards religious places like seminaries nunneries schools and had probably come from wallingford at their priory with the nuns. A woman that Mal can't see says that they're the sisters of the holy obedience and that she used to work for them. They pray, they teach, they look after kids,

but they're fierce, stern, and cruel. And they were just so stern and cruel that this woman couldn't bear it, so she left. Yeah, a little plot convenient, but I'll take it. And something interesting is that this story in the Northern Lights, Ma Costa actually tells Lyra that the sisters of the Holy Obedience were in Watlingford, not Wallingford. So interesting. I'm wondering if he changed it or if ma costa just got the city wrong but uh that doesn't seem likely i think he just changed it to be wallingford and we do learn that lyra was originally intended to go there and asriel fought back about it so it

seems common knowledge this is a strict and cruel place i imagine the area is probably not quite so tolerant but it's interesting that that's actually where Lyra was supposed to go instead of the Priory at God's Toe. It kind of explains why they seem so intent on keeping her, I guess. Yeah. Because she got away once. Yeah, they're like, not again!

Andrew continues to snivel, as he fucking should, and his aunt tells him I probably shouldn't be condoning children getting beat up. No, as he fucking should, and his aunt tells him, I probably shouldn't, like, be condoning children getting, like, beat up, but. No, but he's a shit ass. He is a shit ass. And should your ass then lie, right? Eliana, when she was 11, could take him.

I probably could. 11-year-old Eliana just. I probably could. Got into some scuffles as an 11-year-old. Oh my god. In elementary school. as an 11 year old oh my god in elementary school um andrew's aunt tells him to tell the truth and he says well he's in the league and that he was just doing what was right and he could tell that lyra wasn't there so he called the office of child protection he didn't talk to this other

security of the holy spirit and he tells them that the mother superior is in charge at the priory and that the protection people took him to see her and told him that it was the right thing to do he told her everything he had to and then they prayed together and she let him sleep in a bed for a bit before guiding them here it's interesting that part of their indoctrination in the league is like any children you know that don't belong to any people go tell the office of child protection that's like a way of them covering their bases to be like we're gonna get lyra andrew falls to the ground curling up sobbing and everyone's pretty pissed at him and you can feel it so like no one helps him darn almost everyone that is because george boatwright doesn't really have an opinion he's still unconscious and audrey is getting more and more scared alice goes to help them while

malcolm continues to question andrew about the Priory's location. It's not far, it's up on a hill with all ages of children. The woman who worked there mentions they prepare the children for lives as servants. Both boys and girls kept apart after age 10. And the young babies are kept in a special nursery, at least 15 or 16 of them. Sometimes not just orphansans but also badly behaved children interesting so you're stealing children and then basically turning them into slip anyways overall about 100 kids and no one tries to escape because they always get caught and punished so

badly they'll never try again she reiterates you won't believe how cruel they can be malcolm asks andrew if he's tattled on any other children to get them put there and he won't say his aunt then slaps him making him tell the truth and he wheels out that he might have your shit bag um shit ass so we're gonna see this priori in a bit but it's in some ways less cruel and that, you know, the children aren't, like, literally dying. But still, as other moments within these chapters are, it's reminiscent of Bolvanger in the idea that they are just taking children, right? Kind of stealing them, and they are trying to remove their souls by making them more pliable right like it there's more to taking someone's soul than just literally severing them with a fancy knife right

they're doing it by crushing their spirits instead of conducting weird science experiments on them yeah it's definitely just another way to kill your soul for sure and we see that when malcolm gets in soon how he's treated just like immediately yeah he asks who he reports to and andrew answers he reports to brother peter but he's not supposed to be telling him any of this brother peter is the director of the office of child protection in wallingford and they have an office in the Priory. No separation of church and state here, folks. Nope. Malcolm loses his focus, head throbbing, nauseated, and Alice comes to let him lean on her. She tells him there's nothing they can do, and that they know where she is for now.

She speaks gently to him, which, again, surprises him. Very comforting, and they're bonding. Mr. Boatwright then wakes wakes up he had a much worse concussion than malcolm but he made it he lived like that meme i lived bitch alice gives malcolm something hot to sip and calls him mal which she never does and i do and you might eliana but alice doesn't yeah actually no one does except for al. And so I kind of love this moment, right? Because Malcolm's so touched by it. He's like, no one's ever called me Mal before.

It feels almost like, in some way, he's like, Alice is my sister now, and only she will ever call me Mal from now on forever. Only she's allowed. It is cute. It's really touching. Yeah. It is cute. It's really touching. Yeah. The

liquid that Alice brings Malcolm has a gingery, lemony taste. The woman who handed it to Alice said it was a painkiller and it would help keep him from feeling sick. That it would address the nausea. Malcolm sleeps and wakes up when it's dark. Alice goes to get him some cheese and bread

and offers to fry him an egg. Malcolm is groggy and gross smelling it's a mood uh but suddenly remembers what happened in the previous day and asks alice if they really he trails off talking about bonville it's like did we kill him it's really interesting because like he says did we really bon vie like he doesn't say it he refuses to say it the k word yeah well probably for the best because it is yeah um alice says it was real she's like but hush now it's over here's a mug of stock. Here you go. Just sip the mug. Forget your problems. Stuff it down.

Repress all of it. And he's like, has it been night for long? But it hasn't. People are out there poaching. It hasn't been dark for long. And she tells him Andrew's aunt is guarding him. He won't be getting out anytime soon. He doesn't beat around the bush, though.

He says they have to go get Lyra. And truly, again, this is fantasy you know you're six hours into your concussion recovery but that's fine there's something special going on maybe in a way too right like almost like a religious protection or like you know harry potter had the harry's love from lily dying for him malcolm is being a good person here by saving lyra from the the church question mark who are supposed to be good people. Maybe he just has that magical savior protection going on, right? Yeah, I mean, he has, like, destiny on his side, right?

Because Lyra's the destined one. So someone's got to be there to usher her in. Well, Malcolm's got it bad. Yeah. Get it? His usher? You got it Malcolm's got it bad. Yep. Get it? His usher? You got it, you got it bad. I was also thinking of the same song, but I didn't connect it. Alice has been

thinking the same thing as Malcolm, and Malcolm steps further to say they need to know what the Priory knows about them, so we ask the lady that worked there who was talking to them earlier for some details about the place. Alice goes to get her and introduces her.

Now with a name, it's Mrs. Simpkin with a ferret demon. Malcolm all this time is trying not to focus on his headache and Mrs. Simpkin's demon is nervous when they declare that they want to break Lyra out and she tells them, well, it's like a fortress, you're like never going to get in. She gives them the floor plan though as best that she can, including the nursery and the nun cells, which she's uneasy, especially as Malcolm realizes that, oh, she can't read or write, and so he feels bad

when he's like, can you help us draw a plan or a map? He does get the location of the stairs and the guest rooms, and her demon fills in some of the blanks as well. Only two nuns will be on duty, allegedly with one sleeping in the nursery herself, and they all get up early for services. They're definitely going to be pressed for time.

Malcolm remembers a lot of these rituals from the Godstow Priory, and the more detail that Mrs. Simpkin gives them, the less hopeful that they are. They release her, though, and he and Alice discuss their plan. Malcolm suddenly thinks of a fatal flaw in their plan but how are they going to tell which baby is lyra with 20 babies who all have random demons

that could be anything in this room because they're all changing alice is like malcolm i will know lyra will know lyra and when you get the scene later on and and we find out that they do know lyra i'm like i like to imagine that pullman like did like some research in an experiment it was like everyone bring me your babies i'm gonna see if i can tell them all apart oh yeah i mean to go back to earlier what you said like lyra is getting bigger and older right so like she will look distinct but it is pretty funny it's like the most malcolm shit in the world that he's like, we aren't going to be able to do it, Alice. Oh my god, we're not going to be able to do it, Alice.

I get it, a lot of babies look the same. Yeah, they do. So I like the idea that Pullman's like, but do they really? Malcolm says he's feeling much better, though he's still pretty dizzy, still pretty sore. He can't imagine leaving Lyra another moment, though, so he forces himself up, careful not to make a fuss. Alice gathers their belongings. She actually wraps them up like George Boatwright had earlier by throwing them in the middle and making kind of a knapsack out of them.

They don't tell anyone their plans. They head down the path, wondering if the biscuits are still in the canoe for Lyra purposes. Malcolm thinks of his parents, which he's been doing from time to time, though he's been just pushing it back in a way. But now he wonders if they're suffering, if they're wondering if he's alive. He makes a face of anguish, but it's dark so no one can see it anyway, and he snaps out of it quickly. I do love that Malcolm is thinking about around this time that we started learning about how to put other snaps out of it quickly i do love that malcolm is thinking about around this time that we started learning about how to put other thoughts out of his head like this right his worry for his parents to just focus on what needs to get done now and he also does it when

he's climbing into the priory later on but i'm just like you know welcome to compartmentalization, Malcolm. Yeah, it's it's hurtful. It's definitely hurtful. It's sad because I keep saying he's so young and it's like he shouldn't have to be dealing with these feelings, these complex emotions of murder and shit, and his parents.

They should be taking care of him. Not him taking care of Lyra. They should. Alice and Malcolm are very wary about the They should be taking care of him. Not him taking care of Lyra. Yeah. Both he and Alice. Alice and Malcolm are very wary about the possibility of enemies on the water, so they plan to tread carefully. They find their canoe barely concealed, though it had been invisible to them just moments before in the dark. Tenderly, he pulls the boat down, making sure it's intact, intact checking the paint job which is just a little

bit chipped but not bad making sure the tarp is folded neatly up he hands alice the rucksack and alice is like holy shit what's in here this is heavy and malcolm's like i haven't had time to check i wanted to wait until we were safe to look into it alice wraps a blanket around her shoulders and they paddle off cold air in their face. He worries they'll miss the priory, or that they'll find it guarded or indeed impossible to break into, but it makes no matter because on they go, under the moon. Something changed during their fight with Bon Vie between Alice and Malcolm. It seems that a wall of sorts had finally come down, and now they're friends.

I just love this. As you were saying earlier about their growing friendship i just love this they've gone through so much by this point and like they at the beginning of these chapters had a disagreement right but they've come together and figured it out and resolved it now he's mal i think it's it's good that she's also seeing him for who he is and like why he's doing the silly things he does or the little intricate things he does about Lyra. It's just because he's a kid, you know, and he might not go about things in the most direct or best way in taking care of Lyra, but he cares and it's obvious

and she sees that first person. Yeah. Both of them see a light ahead and Malcolm thinks it may just be the moon, and as if on cue, his spangled ring of light unfurls. It's familiar, and as it grows, it spirals around exactly what Alice had pointed out. It's a great building, gleaming white

under the moon. It almost looked like a castle rising out of the water, but they realize it's a spire, and it's immense. Mal's spangled ring leaves him bit by bit, and they survey the building, trying to find a way in. They find two men guarding the building, having a cigarette, and dressed in security of the Holy Spirit uniforms,

with a powerboat tied off at the base of the steps. They also had rifles over their shoulders. They decide that this is probably not the way to go in. And then suddenly an idea comes to Malcolm. If this is the kitchen, they would have a scullery, like the Godstow Priory with a big drain. And like this is where the nuns throw their washing up water. So they decide to test the area, which has a big iron gate that they have to remove. And it's heavy as hell.

He realizes that, well, they can't both go in. He alice to stay in the boat and hold steady and stay warm yeah malcolm pulls himself up the drain and he's soaked to the skin freezing and asta becomes an otter trying to direct him and this is kind of a similar similar imagery we're going to get later when they have the actual Father Temgate as well. But I love that he's passing below the water. He's kind of like going through a baptism to go get Lyra. Hopefully the water cleanses his concussion on the way there. He lands and he's pretty scuffed up. Broken nails, skinned knees.

He crawls and Asta becomes some sort of night-dwelling beast clinging to his back and keeping watch after a while of crawling malcolm starts to get scared thinking of how much stone is above him he's getting pretty claustrophobic just in time as he nears panic he sees the light of the kitchen ahead and they finally reach dark bars of iron. There's no way through until Asta notices the hinges on the grate and he pulls himself together. First, he's freaking out. He's like, oh God, we're going to die down here. We're not going to get Lyra.

And Asta's like, get yourself together, man. They head through this hole toward the entrance. And Asta was doing that for Malcolm, right? Throughout this whole time underneath, right? She's all like, oh, I can see it. I can see the end because, I mean, A is's all like, oh, I can see it. I can see the end because I mean, Aya's whatever animal she turned into, she can see it better. But I

like the idea that as his soul, she's the one who's giving him hope. Aw, she has to calm his ass down. Yeah. A moment later, they're into the scullery, which is not dissimilar from the Godstow scullery. He huddles near the range to get warm and worries

he'll never be warm again and he'll blow his cover looking for lyra and then he remembers that alice is outside waiting for them and feels even worse so he gets to move on he sees a wooden box he's like oh that might have held apples but now it's gonna hold lyra oh interesting it used to hold apples but now it's gonna hold eve um oh i didn't even you're so clever you know i didn't think about that at all ever known then malcolm lines it with some towels so that lyra will stay dry as they go back down the drain he hears only silence in the stone wall so he decides it's now or never tiptoeing down the stone corridor to find the back staircase a bell rings and he hears a choir singing in the chapel the singing gets louder and to his horror

a line of nuns with hands pressed together and eyes lowered begin to walk toward him that's like some horror imagery i i didn't put this together before but like do you just hear the oh and they're just like walking toward him like evil nuns evil nuns we're coming for you malcolm you live here now yeah i mean that's the that's holman had some fucked up experiences i mean yeah that actually might be from his memory who knows malcolm was caught with nowhere to go he shivers and lowers his head and a nun stops in I mean, yeah, that actually might be from his memory. Who knows? Malcolm was caught with nowhere to go. He shivers and lowers his head, and a nun stops in front of him,

asking who he is and what he's doing. He lies and says that he wet his bed, and then he got lost, sniffing and wiping his nose. The nun just, like, slaps him on the side of his head and tells him to go upstairs and wash himself, take an oil cloth and fresh blanket from the cupboard and go to bed they discuss punishment in the morning and it's interesting that they're all like oh poor malcolm he just got hit and i'm like okay andrew's a little shit but like malcolm definitely hit that boy way harder yeah absolutely um more times i

would say it is a bummer he gets smacks i I'm sure his head is ringing. You know, he's been focusing on and off the whole time on like trying to stay focused with his concussion. Like he's still like, his head is still dizzy. He's still dizzy. And I'm like, how are you doing this? I also love that they're like, you better go get an oil cloth and a blanket. And Malcolm's like, well, don't mind if I do.

I will take one for Lyra. Thank you. Yeah. Really works out Thank you. Yeah. Really works out for him. Yeah. After he snags the oilcloth and blanket, he realizes, wow, they must have a generator because they have embarrick lights still. As he goes upstairs, the lights are a little dimmer and he counts the doors to find the nursery. Asta and Malcolm hear a nun slightly lightly snoring but nothing more so they

head into the long room asta tells him to concentrate to figure out which child is lyra oh this is kind of like the the pine spray right like when lyra has to figure out seraphina's pine spray that's the test yeah yes great connection i didn't think about it. Now he has to figure out which child is the chosen one. So he goes. He goes to find the chosen one. He has a couple close calls, can't find her. And suddenly he hears a noise of someone entering the room. So he ducks and hides.

He's freezing and he's shivering and Asta warms up his neck as a ferret while they discuss Lyra. These voices are talking about Lyra. a ferret while they discuss lyra these voices are talking about lyra two of the sisters discuss that she's lord asriel's daughter but they can't seem to figure out how she came to be in a cave with poachers and common thieves i love that because last chapter of course was the poacher and andrew was the real poacher of the last chapter not just those that were going out to hunt for the group he illegally hunted lyra and handed her off to the CCD. So of course it's ironic that these people are like, no, poachers and common thieves,

when the only poaching they were doing was hunting for food for hungry people and children. These people are poachers and common thieves right here. Yeah, they are. They're like stealing children. That's thievery. Yeah, and this will go on in our next episode right because the stolen child theme comes back up with the fairy great point well

turns out it made no matter as to who was in that cave because they were like oh the group of thieves would be gone by the time someone went to interrogate. The nuns begin to speak to a priest, whom they address as father, and he says he'll take the child in the morning, but the nuns do not agree. Yes. She's in our care now, and there she will remain. That is the rule of our order. My authority outweighs the rule of your order.

In any case, I should have thought that the one thing a sister of holy obedience ought to do was obey. I will take this child in the morning, and that is the end of it. Some really strong themes there, right? That the nuns may be strict and mean and evil and cruel, but they're still females in the society. And the priest trumps them in that role for sure yes the man leaves and one of the nuns remains by the crib for a few minutes but slowly she goes to the door malcolm sees her stop momentarily and for a moment he thinks she's looking straight back at him and and he's like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. But she keeps going and leaves. He thinks of Alice faithfully waiting outside and how lucky he is.

Slowly, carefully, Asta's like, the nun's gone from the corridor, and immediately he tries to find Lyra. He can't find her at first, but then Asta finds her, and something's off. Asta can smell sweetness on her mouth, on all the children's mouths, because they're drugged. Oh, fuck. It's interesting that the nun looks back, and we know that she's looking back, because it turns out she's tricked the priest. She's directed him to the wrong crib, and I guess that has to do, right, with what you're saying before, that the nuns almost were the ones who were given the care of Lyra. that the nuns almost were the ones who were given the care of Lyra and but beyond that I do wonder if there's something else as to why she tried to trick

the priest to keep Lyra I don't know do they just crave that power maybe they know that prophecy about her maybe there's word of it that they heard since they were supposed to keep her they might know and you know maybe

they believe the word of the prophecy and the word that would revolve around their god more than the word of this douchebag priest maybe or maybe they know that there's something important because like the entirety of the magisterium still doesn't know it yet i don't know like if they think there's obviously something important about this girl maybe they also are doing their duty for once to protect others and like keep her safe even if it's a harsh place maybe it's kind of like a misnomer and how they're treating it that like yes it's harsh but maybe lyra would be safer with these nuns than she would be with the priest who was going to give her over to the magisterium

uh yeah she probably would have maybe there's a sense of honor still you know yeah or it's possible that they're just like that they think that they're doing well right and being so mean which is so kind of evil in a way yeah it is it's still evil to to have that treatment coincide with it yeah it's almost more terrifying right because then those people can't be they don't know it's harder yes lulled into a false sense of security like these are my caretakers that i should respect and are actually taking care of me and keeping me safe from evil but also abusing me yeah there's no winning is what we're saying.

Yep. Especially because, as you said, they can smell drug on all the children's lips, so that's a take on their part regarding child rearing. Lyra doesn't stir as they lift her out, and Asta also lifts the sleeping pan in her mouth, and they silently leave, getting down to the scullery, settling Lyra into

her little wooden box, and then out they they go freezing alice holds the boat steady it's like it's about fucking time and she takes lyra from him i love this passage alice is so cute in it it's great i got it steady don't hurry just bring it out slow and careful no hurry got the weight take your time turn around this way i got i got it and she slept through all this lazy little cow come here sweetheart come to alice here mal sit down and put them blankets around you for god's sake get warm and eat this here i kept it from the cave if you got something in your belly it'll warm you up quicker. She shoved a lump of bread and a piece of cheese into his hands, and he gobbled down a bit at once. Groom you the paddle, he mumbled.

And with another bit of bread and cheese in his mouth, the blankets around his shoulders, and the paddle in his hand, he pushed away from the walls of the great white priory and brought the faithful canoe out once more onto the flood. And that is chapter 20. That is it. We did three chapters this week for you,

and what a time. That's, uh, I'm glad that we got Lyra back, because that was certainly a worry. Yep. It's a worry often throughout this book. Do you think they'd learn? You'd think that they would.

They all lose Lyra for a good three books in the main series. That's true. I mean, to be fair, she does just walk into another world. Yeah, she's just like, fuck this, fuck adults, no parents. Though, you know, we touched on those uh three main books just now but we are also we're not really gonna do a discussion this time we're not gonna talk about the secret commonwealth we don't really have much to say my mother taught me that if you don't have anything nice to say with how your thoughts from well savage connect eventually to the secret commonwealth again and you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all

that's what my mama taught me so i'm sticking by that from thumper learn that from bambi maybe bambi yes maybe it wasn't thumper i don't know yeah it's bambi and thumper and flowers i didn't remember yeah i think I think it was Flowers. Well, thank you all for listening in. I'm hoping next month we will have a discussion for you, for sure. Especially because I think we might have a guest with us next month. So stay tuned to our regular Song of Ice and Fire episodes throughout April to get a hint at that. Or, you know, if you want to get more hints when those kind of things are coming up, I know we only do these episodes monthly until the end, so I know the information

can be sparse, but you can get updated information over at our social media. We are on Twitter at Girls Gone Canon, C-A-N-O-N, and you can send us an email about the episode or about your thoughts on the Books of Dust over at girlsgonecanon at g.com yes and of course if you want to keep up with whenever these episodes do come out and make sure that you don't miss it be sure to subscribe to us on any of the platforms where you can find our podcasts such as google play apple podcast podbean where these are all hosted spotify acast stitcher overcast um pandora and amazon podcast amongst the many many other platforms that we may be on that you can google yeah and if you are on patreon.com we do have a patreon patreon.com slash girls gone canon handful of perks that you can choose from our five dollar

and above patrons in the stranger tier tier. Get special episodes every month. $5 and up will get you every other month His Dark Materials special episodes and every other other month A Song of Ice and Fire. In April, we'll be releasing a very special episode on the Lost episode, the bottle episode with Asriel that got kind of tanked from series two. More to come on that soon. And hey, if you are a $10 or above patron in the Thunder tier or above, you do get access to our

Discord where we do a monthly brunch and happy hour hangout. We have kind of a potluck presentation style thing that goes on or we play some Jackbox games, do some really fun giveaways, you name it. We're having a blast with those. And we kind of just chat all day on Discord. So if you're into that, come and see patreon.com slash girlsconcanon. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in this month and

as we said, see you next month for both our Patreon episode and for La Belle Sauvage where we again hope to have some exciting exciting things for that episode I've been one of your hosts Eliana and I have been another one

of your hosts Chloe see you next time goodbye