Girls Gotta Eat - All the Cool Girls Get Fired with Laura Brown and Kristina O'Neill

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

For anyone who's been fired as f*ck, this episode is for you! We are joined by Laura Brown and Kristina O'Neill, media legends and authors of All the Cool Girls Get Fired, to talk about the painful experience so many of us have experienced. They share their stories of becoming friends, working in media/fashion in NYC in the 2000s, ascending to editors in chief of InStyle and WSJ Magazine, and then being fired from their dream jobs. We discuss how to cope in the immediate aftermath, the importance of telling people and asking for help, and why employers are more empathetic than ever to terminations and resumé gaps. We also talk about networking and leveraging your contacts (even when you're employed), how to figure out your next steps, and why getting fired could end up being the best thing that ever happened to you. Before Laura and Kristina join us, we share our own stories of being fired and how it impacted our lives then and now. Enjoy! Follow All the Cool Girls Get Fired on Instagram @allthecoolgirlsgetfired, and get the book here. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. Square Space: Get a free trial at https://squarespace.com/GGE and use code GGE for 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/gge. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. Winx Health: Get 50% off Winx at Walgreens at https://hellowinx.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But it gives you power. And the important thing to remember is if you lose your job, you don't lose your power. It's only in your head if you do. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back.

What are we to live for now? The wedding's been over at this point for nine days. Okay, you know, what makes me really sad is thinking that stuff is going to end. Like, I'm going to plan something for so long and then, like, it will happen and be done. Well, it makes me sad. We're recording this before because we wanted to get ahead so I could take a little time off. So next week we're going to recap it in full on the 17th. Everything.

With a special guest. Don't we already tell people who it was going to be? You guys know who the guest is. It's Jacqueline, my wedding planner. The most important person at the wedding. No, it will be with my husband crazy. But yeah, I think this is what a lot of people feel, what I will feel is that there's been so much leading up to it. I think it goes back to what we talked about. Liz Moody is enjoying the journey

so you don't have that crash. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we'll talk about it next week. We're going to vote on who had the most main character energy at your wedding. Me, you, or your fiance. Definitely not him. You guys, it's out of control. The way I've been acting is crazy. It's real crazy. Again, it's just I don't care because I've always said you can't upstage the bride. You can't even try. Not me. Not a bride like me. Like I'm saying I'm a performer. Like it's just there's no chance.

So do whatever you want. Take your tinnies out. Just don't wear white. That is crazy that people do that. My favorite is when like moms, like mother-in-law is wear white. Just to troll you. Yeah. Okay.

Well, next week full recap, we promise. Okay. And we're just going to thank our partners and we'll jump right in. Thank you to Rocket Money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at rocketmoney.com slash GGE and Squarespace. get a free trial at Squarespace.com slash GGE and use code GGE for 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and quince get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com slash GGEE.

And thank you to Nutraful. Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at Nutraful.com with code GGE 10. And thank you to Wink's Health. Get 50% off Winks at Walgreens at HelloWinks.com slash GGE. Okay, I do have to say I'm wearing glasses today. I had a little bit of a stye scare. Ashley, I got really scared for you. I pulled my car over.

I was like, we just canceled a wedding. So if you guys are new around here, I had a Shalazion, which is a sty. It's a D1 Stai. Megatron Stai for my engagement. And it was a whole thing. And we're not going to reshare the story. But if you know, you know. And honestly, ever since then, I am a little triggered by even the slightest bit of redness.

by the slightest bit of discomfort. I'm like, it's happening again. So yesterday I started to feel something weird when I put my contacts in. Later in the day, I see some redness. Then I saw a lump, but it might have been in my head. And so I freaked out. I was really, I was, I mean, just if it turned into that,

you can't get married looking like that. You can't get married. Listen, you could get engaged looking like that. It's funny. You wear sunglasses. Ha, ha, ha, ha. You can't get married. Raina, I would have to go under the knife.

Take my eye. No, I was like, we're going to find you, the jihitsu voodoo. do doctor of eye doctors. And we had a friend who recently had a really bad stye. That's when I said to you. I was like, what if it looked like so and so? And you go, the wedding, you could not do the wedding.

I wouldn't even go to your wedding if I looked like that. No, 100%. Like literally I'd invite everyone. No, if you looked like that, I would go to the wedding. If I looked like that, I wouldn't go to your wedding. Yeah, because then you would be the main character. You would steal the show. You'd be like, Ashley is a stye.

Look over here. I might have written the word Shalazian in your ceremony. Okay. Well, it's over now. It was 10 days ago at this point. You know about it now. We have such a fun episode today. So we just wrapped the interview with Laura and Christina.

And I think we shared this with them at the top. But I had followed, I think both of them, but Laura, for sure, for years. She was editor of InStyle. And I remember seeing this post. And we didn't fully get into this in the interview. So I wanted to tell you guys, like, they'll share their story about both getting fired. It wasn't like the same day. There was time and space between it.

But they went for drinks and they posted this half-drunk photo with the caption all the cool girls get fired. And that was the beginning of them writing this book called All the Cool Girls Get Fired and we'll talk about it today. But I just was thinking we referenced this Instagram post a couple times in the interview. We didn't really say what it was and we want you guys to read the book and the photos in the book. And it's really special. And so just stuff like that, it was a really impactful, like emotional interview at times because thinking of those moments that are a low that you look back on and you can't imagine your life if they hadn't have happened. Well, I have to give you credit because you, you suggested this interview and you sent

me the book like a year ago. You sent me the post about the book. And I would never have thought to do an episode about getting fired from your job, but it's such a universal experience that pretty much everybody goes through and there's so much shame around it and you're so devastated. But it is this like universal experience we've all, we've all been through, which I just said twice and two cents. Imagine if I repeat myself how short this podcast would be. You say that all the time and I don't think that because you're not this unit. me. Because Anna edits it out.

My voice notes would be half as long. You sent me a voice note this morning and you go, I just sent you the longest voice. No, it was five minutes and I realized I wasn't concise and then you sent me an eight minutes. See, you would have gotten a 10. So I've never really done this right now. I did five full minutes and was like, I can't send this. It's not fair to her.

I have deleted voice notes to you only because I will think like I phrased this in a way that could be insulting. and then I'm going to have to like send another voice note to explain what I really meant. And I'm just like, what were you trying to insult me about? I knew you were going to say that. I knew you were going to say that. So I don't send the voice notes. I've nothing to insult you about.

No, but I, when there's a voice note and I'm guilty of this too, there are certain voice notes that are so rambly, they're disrespectful of someone's time. Be tighter. Be better. We had this one friend send us this voice note. And you text me and go, I got to be honest. I don't know what that was about. Oh, yeah.

That was a long story. It was like a 10-minute story about nothing. Could I? Well, we're here. She named dropped eight different people. I was like, what is this about? So while we're here. So we have had something kind of...

Disappointing and some drama with a business we had previously promoted, whatever. And it is a real tale. We've been telling it and people go crazy for it. It's so shocking on so many levels. And we also had... There's some tea about a friend, someone we're really no longer friends with. So we were on the group chat with our other friend, and she asked for some tea on the friend situation.

And I got my wires crossed. And earlier in the conversation, something about the business had come up. My next text was I was waiting for Ashley to be on the chain so that she could fill you in. And I said, Ashley, do you want to go or me? And you go, I got this. And I tell the seven-minute voice note story about the business thing. And I'm scrolling through it and going, when is she going to get to this girl? What does this have to do with the girl I want to talk shit on?

I'm at minute six and a half. I'm like, how has she not brought this up yet? I was so confused. And I was really proud. I felt like I said it really. I kept it tight. I feel like there were highs and lows. And I was like I said it pretty articulately for me.

And I was really proud of it. And then you both write back like, whoa, not the T we asked for, but that also good. Like our friend was like, nice. I didn't know that was the story that was coming. You were like, nailed it. Yes, like, mic drop. How did this happen? Wasn't even what I was supposed to be.

Honestly, though, I'll take tea about anything. I don't care. I'll take tea about people. I don't even know. I like tea about people's other people's workplaces. When somebody's like, you don't know these people, I don't care. Oh, and the friend is a specific type of friend who's like a PR fashion type person and we're talking about a fashion brand. And so I knew she would eat it up.

Yeah. So anyway, it was just very funny where I was like, oh, you wanted to hear about so-and-so. That's Raina's department. I think we both knew who would tell. which of the two stories. I really was hoping it would be me, but I didn't want to, like, scoop you on it if you felt really passionately.

I didn't even remember some of the details. I was like, I don't care as much as you do. I do care. I haven't retained as much as you have. I was closer with this girl, so it's more important to me to talk shit on her

for not being our friend anymore. Yes. So speaking of firing our friends. No, she fired us. Actually, I don't, we didn't do anything. Yeah, but I was going to quit. She quiet quit our friendship. She didn't even tell me she was doing it.

Sometimes she would think you're so friends with somebody and you try to go to stagecoach with them, and they just stopped responding to you because they got a boyfriend. And they don't wish you happy birthday. You know what she did? She got another job completely. Like she transferred jobs while you thought she was still working for you. Right.

Literally. Right. She signed up for a boyfriend. And when she got that job, she never spoke to me again. All right. Well, you heard of your first. If you're listening to this, you know who you are. I want what you did.

You know what you did. Why could our friendship? Anyways, so we have this great interview with these powerhouse women in media. And we wanted to just take some time up top because Ashley and I have both been fired from jobs and just talk about our experience. We wanted them to have the floor for the full interview. But we have both been fired as well. So we just wanted to talk about how that went.

Yeah, and it's funny we're like talking about like similar periods of time. Like my story, I think this is 07. I got this job in like 05. I graduated college. And I lived in Atlanta and I really got my dream job working at this magazine. Right out of college, I knew I wanted to work there. I had heard about it. I'd seen it, this beautiful glossy magazine, celebs on the cover.

It was local, but it was like still a big deal. And this was 05, still a prime time in media, pre-social media, all of that. And so it was my dream to work there. I interned in the events department. And at the end of my internship, at the end of the year, I think I interned from like August to December, whatever. The editor wanted to offer me a job in the editorial department. And I became the nightlife editor. I mean, really low pay.

I was like scraping by. But I couldn't believe it. I felt like I had the coolest job in the city. I was like, I felt so out of my league. I was going out every night, going to all these events. I mean, it was truly a dream because of getting to know the new city I moved to and meeting all these people. What is cooler? Yeah, but I was also like, I mean, I'm at these open bar events.

I was drinking. And that is not why I got fired. That's why you go fired. No, but I just, like, loved it so much. But my boss was tough to work for. She wasn't full Miranda Priestley, but there were similarities. Like when I got there, the lore that I had heard was like a year or two. two prior, her whole editorial staff quit on the same day. They went and they quit in front of her

face because they thought she was that terrible. And I became friends with one of those girls years later. I was like, you're a legend. Like she was not well liked. And the thing with me, which I think we all know at this point, is I was never meant to work for anybody. I can't be managed. We've always joked about this. I always knew I needed to be on my own. But I was smart, skilled, talented, hardworking, all the things. Like, I think I was a real easy hire. And then I had to, a little attitude about me and I would just act entitled. I was like a bratty 22 year old. Like I will own that I wasn't the best employee even though my work was good. And I was at that job for maybe two years and my boss and I just really started to buttheads. And I was looking for

other jobs. We talk about the networking while you're at your job today here in the episode. I was looking for other things, but also like I was reaching out to PR companies and they're like, you can't hire you from there. You know, like we work with you. Like it was just kind of a weird vibe. And I was like, the money's not good. And she was just really riding me. She was like purposely making my life hell. That just like last minute, you have to go to this event. Like my weekends were not my own anymore. Like she really was becoming really controlling. And I was like, I just don't think I can do this anymore. So I had a meeting set with her. I was working from home that day. It was a 5 p.m. meeting. And I was going to go in there. And I mean, my plan was like,

maybe I will quit. I feel ready to go. But I need more money. Something has to give. Like we are clearly like at odds. And I had that meeting planned. And for days I'd been transferring a bunch of contacts. I mean, I was young and stupid. I was just forwarding all my emails to like my personal Gmail. That's the first time I set up. But Gmail was specifically to do this instead of my college email. I'm forwarding tons, dozens, hundreds of emails. Like I had so many contacts. And the day I'm supposed to go in there, maybe we're like midday. I was supposed to meet her at 5 p.m. My email started glitching. And my friends were in the office. Like my friends were like in the office with her, with the editor-in-chief. And they were texting

me like she's flipping out. She like has talked to tech support. She knows you're forwarding all these emails and she's like running around the office. Cut Ashley's email off. Cut Ashley's email off. Like literally we can hear her on the phone. She's like crashing out and I'm like, what are you saying to me? And so I was like

I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's about to happen and sure enough I got an email and it was you're fired. Do not come back here. You got fired by email? She didn't even have the courtesy to be like, well I mean there's no courtesy. You're actually kind of a little shady. She was like fuck her. It was an email or it It was not a phone call.

It was an email or a text, and I can't remember if the like that... I'm sure it was an email. Yeah. But it was very, like, your time here is done. Very curt. And I was stunned.

Like, I remember taking a walk and just trudging it. Like, what just happened? I just felt, like, in a daze. I mean, I called my parents. And again, I was, like, ready to leave. Like, I might have left that day, but it wasn't on my terms. And I was having those thoughts of who am I with?

felt this job. It was a badge of honor. I remember having the business cards. I was like, I'm such a baddie to have this job. And I will say that weekend, I had the first feeling of I am free. I can do whatever I want. Every weekend had been dominated by that job since I had gotten it since I moved to Atlanta, quite honestly. And I'm not on call for this magazine. And I just felt this sense of freedom. And I definitely felt panicked about what was next, of course. But I did ultimately feel a sense of relief. And I had to keep reminding myself, like, I wanted to leave anyway. But it was tough to have it happen like that. It was a blow to my ego. Also, it's like, how do I explain this to the next employer? Yeah, it was not, it's not I left. It was like she's not

giving me a referral. Yeah. And I had some freelance work already. I was doing like, you know, a little bit of something to fall back on. Don't get a twist. I struggled. Then I struggled for years after, but, you know, maybe enough to pay my rent. So I wasn't just like, I'm on the streets. But, you know, the next few years were a struggle as I started to try to figure out what to do. I did have a connection I made through that job that I did some freelance stuff for this designer. And then I worked in PR. And I was able to use the connections I made from the magazine. I'm just eternally grateful.

And seeing her name was triggering for so long. Like, I just, she felt like the devil to me. Like, it was so, I couldn't see her name. Like, it would pop up someplace and she was everywhere. And then I remember being out at an event. and I saw her and we talked and I think I even sat extorted a bit years later. And I was talking my email earlier trying to find that email when I got fired. And I saw an email from her and I jogged my memory.

She emailed me in 2010, three years later, asking if I wanted to freelance. You know, like we're fine. And I'm grateful she took a chance on me at 22 years old. And that was still such a wonderful experience. But that feeling is just like, who am I? And really briefly, and then bring her to give her to the brain of the, the floor. But my other experience, and I talk about this a little bit with Lauren Christina, is I got another dream job, which was the Atlanta editor of this online publication called Daily Candy.

It was a dream in every way. It was nothing but a positive experience for three plus years. It made me a better writer. It changed who I am. I'm so grateful for it. And I got that job in a really dark time in 2011. And it just, I feel like it really changed my life. And then in three years later, three plus years later, the company got shut down or got bought or whatever. And all the local editors got fired and it was so crushing, but I, and I say this later, so I don't want to be too repetitive, but I never would have left the job. And you'll talk about your experience too. And that's what made me focus on my blog, which I already had, of course, but really be like, this is all I got and I have to really focus on this. And 2014 was the year when my blog

really took off, when I started Bros. Being Basic, when I feel like my career started to happen for me, things really popped off. And I started making actual money I could save and not living paycheck to paycheck and I just wouldn't have left that job and I may have never done all those things. It's just, it's scary to go out in the world. It's scary to like apply for jobs and like you just think like what? Maybe it really, maybe the grass really isn't greener. Like that's foolish to think that and maybe, you know, there isn't more money or more opportunity and so people just get really comfy and to be just like unceremoniously just kicked out the door is sometimes the only way that you'll move on. And I understand I'm a little different. You know, my story is not the same as everybody

and I feel for anybody no matter what. But these points, it's like I always kind of knew I needed to be on my own. It was just the kick in the ass that I needed. I just, I don't think at our age when we got out of college, there weren't too many avenues to go be on your own. You know what I mean? Like, people have blogs, I guess. But that was like the very early stages.

It was like, could you make a real living having a blog? Like, what is the number one thing people want to do coming out of college day is being an influencer or an only fans model? Like, that was not an option back then. How could you even have thought to like be out on your own? unless someone forced you. Exactly. Yeah.

I mean, I knew. I just was like, I'm bad at working for people. Yeah. Like, I'm just, I just knew it. I'm like, I'm my father's daughter

and he, I'd always heard his story of the same type of thing. I know I need to have my own business. And I always knew the writing was on the wall. I remember having my first blog when I was working at that PR company. And I was writing about sex and getting drunk.

And they're like, you can't do that. What are you doing? And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm trying to make it out here. I got my side also. I was like,

Yeah, but you represent the March of Dimes. You can't be writing about it. And you're like, they don't read it. Okay? If you have a problem with it, then don't go to the website. No one's making you go to that website. But it was crazy because I would be like, this is Facebook Times. I'd be promoting my slutty blog.

And at the same time, you're like, come out to the March of Dimes dinner, this, whatever, charity dinner. Anyway, so let's hear yours. I mean, I sort of have two. And I'm going to try to trunk it the other one. but I got fired from a restaurant job. I got really managed out of Amazon. They were going to get me out of there. But I was in very different positions when those things happened.

I got managed out of Amazon. I had a lot of money in the bank account. I had a full resume. I had tons of contacts. I knew a lot of people in New York. I had already started the food blog, which is how I would find you. And I had this side hustle that I was excited to start doing.

When they kind of kicked me in the ass out the door, I had all these other things that I could at least fall back on, I got fired from a restaurant job when I was 23 and I was managing this restaurant. I mean, it's called Quality Meets. We did dinner there recently. It's a huge restaurant group. You guys are Gucci now. Yeah, I mean, we're good now.

It's a huge restaurant group. They own quality Italian, quality eats. I mean, it's a huge, really famous, well-known restaurant group. And I was 23, I had no business managing there. It was one of the highest-grossing restaurants in the country. I had no experience. I should have been there to begin with. But I had gotten hired there.

And the environment there at the time, I will say, is that like management drank all the time. I was always walking around with a glass of wine, sitting at people's tables, schmoozing, buy a glass. I mean, that was the environment at the company at the time. Yeah, I mean, I've only had restaurant jobs where I would be drinking. But different, I didn't work in a place like you. But like, I don't know, it's not such a crime.

I'm setting the stage. So the managers would walk around, my GM, all my other manager, with a glass of wine, go to people's tables, sit down, schmooze, whatever. So there was an incident where another manager was fired for being like, grossly drunk on the job. And so I guess the vibes changed and I wasn't, you know, I didn't tap into those vibes. You're 23.

I was like, I'm not stumbling drunk. I'm walking around with the, I'm holding, I'm only having sex in the private dining room with the bartender. But how can you hire young 20s, millennials in the early 2000s and expect us to stay sober? I was blacked out at those events. That restaurant was three stories high, pitch black, so loud, so sexy. taught like three-story high steakhouse New York City

I mean sexy who was not drunk and I mean truly this is what this is maybe the worst week of my entire life I caught my boyfriend who I was living with cheating on me for the second time I threw him out of our apartment which I could not afford on my own and I'm like dealing with like money issues and him and then I went to work one night

I think a week later and it was the end of my shift it was like 10 p.m. and I popped into my boss's office and I think I like drank out of the bottle that he had there and I was walking around whatever I don't remember even how people knew, but one of the newer managers there, who probably was aware that I'd know business working there at that point, went to the corporate office and told on me. And she basically turned me in for drinking on the job. And I went to work the next day. And the GM, who I was very close with, who really I'll talk about it later, but did me a solid.

He said, were you, take a walk with me? Were you drinking last night? And I said, yeah, I was drinking last night. I were drinking every night? Every night. And I remember. You drinking last night? Yeah, weren't you? And he goes, I have to fire you. And I was like, what? I can't even. Like, it just sends a chilled on my side. spine. Like you're like, wait, no, shut up. This is a joke. I know. I was like, are we going to go like Kiki in the bed? What are you talking about? And he was like, I'm, he was like, I wish you would have lied to me honestly. And I was like, why would I lie to you? Everyone drinks here. And he was like, but that other person was just fired for this. And now the

environment is not that you can just be like. Oh, right. And I was okay. And I was just like, you can't do this to me. I don't have, I can't afford my apartment that I'm living in. I just divided my income and now you're, I know I'm no income. And he was like, I don't, and he was like, listen, don't, you don't have to tell anybody you got fired. Like you, him and I were really close. He was like, you can put on your resume that you left and I will back you up. But you don't work here anymore. And I had to like go back into the restaurant, collect my things.

And I'd already shown up for my shift for that. It was so fucking humiliating. This was November. It was a couple days before Thanksgiving. It was just like dark out. Everyone's going home for the holidays. I had to go home. I have no boyfriend.

I have no money. I have no job. It was so humiliating. Everyone's like celebrating. I didn't even know what I black. I blacked out. I think I told Melanie, that might have been the only person I told.

I didn't tell my family. I could not like go home for the holidays and be like, I lost everything. Yeah. It was so humiliating. And I mean, I look back now.

I mean, it's the catalyst for everything. I never would have applied for the next job and met my fiance. And I'll talk about this during the episode. But like to what you said,

I probably wouldn't have left. I had a cushy job. I ate well. I drank well. My friends would come in for dinner. We'd comp everybody. Everybody I knew would just come in. It was like a party.

night. I made a lot of money for being a restaurant manager. I just wouldn't have left. But I really wanted to be in like a chef-driven culinary scene. I wanted to work for a big, big restaurant where I always wanted to work for Danny Meyer. I never would have the balls to apply there. And my dad who owns a head hunting company was just like just cold apply. Just decide everywhere you want to work and just email those people. Yeah. And I just had all the time in the world. So I did that. But like, there was so much shame around it. I didn't know how to like tell people I'd lost my job. I didn't how to talk about it in interviews. It just, I mean, it was horrible. Yeah, it is, your story is, again, we're taught, I feel like we're talking about stuff that feels like the, the dark ages at this

point in 2025. You know, I'm talking about 05, you're talking about 08, you know, whatever, 010, 010. Oh 10. Yeah, 010. But your story is tough. Like, they weren't like doing massive layoffs. Like you got fired from restaurants. I got fired. Like, it wasn't like Amazon is restructuring. You know, like, I think you really, when you work for a big corporate company, you have the, liberty to say whatever. I mean, I guess you don't want to lie, but these things happen. But a restaurant manager, some shit went down. You fuck somebody, you drank, you know, so it was so nice that your manager was like, I'm not telling anybody if you don't. He was, I mean, I'm so grateful for him. His name is Maricio. He just really did me a solid. I don't know what I would have done

if like people really dug into that. I got fired for drinking. Like, you're not going to hire a person like that into a restaurant space where they have all the access in the world to more alcohol. Right. And like you're like, but it was just this small thing. Everybody did it. And they're like, yeah, we don't care. That's, you got fired for it. So it was probably deeper than that, even though it wasn't. But like, yeah, to your point, yeah, if they could hire me or somebody else, they're not going to hire the person who got fired for drinking. Yeah. The restaurant industry is so small. And when this happened to me again at Amazon, it was just, it was such a different experience. I had started the food blog, which was One Hungry Jew, which is how I met you. But Amazon just didn't really fuck with the fact that I had. an outside job. Yeah. And they're welcome to any, every company can have whatever parameters they want. They sort of were just like,

you're representing this company and this company only. And they didn't love that I had this other thing. Well, you didn't really drink the Kool-Aid. Yeah. You didn't really play ball. And as it turns out, you're meant to be a business owner.

You know, like you didn't buy in the way that you were supposed to. And they felt that. Yeah, they made sure it was not a nice environment for me. And I wasn't used to that. I've always been in environments where I was like, the most popular,

the most well liked. I always was so kind to everybody. I had tons of friends. I didn't really have a lot of friends there. It wasn't a great environment for me. There was a great environment for other people, but I didn't care for it. But really different experience

when you have like money and a resume and you're like, I'll go do this other thing. But I also, I don't know that I would have left there necessarily either because it was like, I made a lot of money. It was so cushy and easy. And if that hadn't happened, I never would have met you. I mean, I feel sick to think like if that's the path I would have taken. and we'll talk to Laura and Christina about like what the next steps are.

But like as soon as I was managed out of Amazon, I was never fired. I did leave. But I was going to be, it was imminent. I got an offer to go work for Resi, the reservation company. And they were going to make me, I think like the head of Northeast sales or something. And I thought like I could take this job and I could have a corporate job at an amazing company with people I really liked. I knew somebody who worked there. And I just thought like I'm going to just bet on myself for like a little.

bit of time. Yeah. And I turned down like a huge salary from them and they're a great company in the restaurant industry too. And I just was like, let me just see if I can do this. Like let me see if I can take this food blog and make it a thing. And around the same time I got my first deal from postmates to like post to social media post. And it was like, I don't know, a thousand bucks or 500 bucks. And I was like, I think I might be able to do this. And if I had taken that job at Rezi, I mean, that just sort of would have been the end of that. I know. That like jogged my memory. I don't remember what year this was. I mean, 2014, probably.

And I got a full-blown offer to be a radio personality on this radio station. It was a big radio conglomer. I think it was Cox. And it was like a new station. They had me go in and run the boards for the day. And I was going to be like a radio personality. Like I had dabbled in radio. And I was like, I can't believe they might hire me for this.

This is crazy. Like I, this was all, when I remember moving to Atlanta and it was still like a radio age, I just thought those people were like so cool, the morning show and all that stuff. And I was going to have that. I was going to be like the main girl. And I remember the money wasn't like quite right, which I thank God. Because I don't know, a bigger number. I wasn't making much.

And I just remember like what something's not right here. Like this should be like my dream job. You know, I'm good at this. I had so much fun when I was in there and just like doing the radio and playing the music and things like that. And I was like something's like not right. And I like knew it. I was like, this will take all my time.

I might have to go do live remotes on the weekend sometimes. And like, this will be it. I'll be branded with the station. Like, I will be Ashley from this radio station and not Ashley from like this thing I'm building with my blog. And this was before I think Bro's Being Basic. So it must have been 2014. And I turned it down. And I think they were shocked.

Who would turn that down? You could be like a radio host. Who literally who would turn that down. Yeah. And like we're talking about. again, like the dark age. It's like, I decided to bet on myself for social media. No one was making money in social media.

I mean, this was like nine years ago. I was. There weren't like, but for the blog also, I knew you were making money, but there weren't a million examples of people that had taken a blog and turned into a viral sensation and then built this giant Instagram presence. It didn't happen. Like today, there's too many examples of that. And everybody does that.

But like, you and I were like, I guess I'll just see. Yeah. It's interesting. You and I both have that similar story of this. other offer that also is a testament to us. Like we built our connections and our community to get those offers too. We made a good name for ourselves. And then we had to be like, no, I think I want to be this other thing. And, you know, we really love this interview today. And they have such incredible advice and they share their stories. But we do just want to acknowledge that it is hard out here.

This is a tough time. So many people have lost their jobs. And it's just a really bleak moment in history and it hasn't been great for a while, but especially with just the current landscape and the government and everything. It's just, it's a tough time. It's not so easy to get a job. You know, we know so many brilliant, capable people that are struggling, that are unemployed in trying to find a job or just trying to leave their current job. And we just want to acknowledge how tough it is and how it is different than 05 or 2010 or 2015 or whatever it may be. But still, there's just a lot of global evergreen, inspiring advice in the conversation. Yeah, I like to talk about it in a positive way and the things that came out of it.

But like, yeah, when I left Amazon, I had a baked-in job I could go do. But when I lost that job at quality meats, there was like six months of me being unemployment and having to call my dad and be like, can you just send me $200? Like, I can't cover the rent. I was eating so little. I was eating like miso soup and rice every day from like the Japanese restaurant next door. I couldn't even afford like a. subway card. I went to the library to take out books. Like it was wintertime. It was cold. It was

fucking bleak. I wasn't like running around having fun. I had zero funds. I think I got $400 in unemployment a week. I couldn't afford. I lived on $1,600 a month in New York City. It was the lowest time of my life. You just, you hate yourself. You're so disappointed. Everybody around you was doing cool fun stuff. And it's just in those moments, I know that you don't want to hear like it will get better, but like it will get better. Like it just, I promise. you, I can only look at my life through the lens of history now, but you do think in those moments, like, how am I ever going to climb out of this? And it sucked, and I'm not really grateful for the experience. It was really bad, but good things came from it. Yeah. Move to L.A. No one

has a job here. Yeah. You can live on the beach. No one expects you out, no date has a job. If you're a guy. Don't live in New York where everyone's just killed out. I know, exactly. That's a tough place to be unemployed. Oh, fuck. I was taking a bus. Yeah. hook the bus everywhere. Okay, well, those are our stories. And again, we're just really excited for you guys to hear this episode. Just going to talk about a few partners, and we will get into it. Okay, so as it's starting to get cold, there is no better time to go on the Quince website

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Raina and I don't like, like, sweatpants. We just can't pull them off. They have them on quince. But this outfit that you were wearing, it looked, I walked into the lounge and I was like, what set is that? That is so good. Such a good set. So you guys will love it.

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I have to tell you something so funny that I don't know if this is going to make you laugh. Do you know that I did not own Raina Greenberg? like the domain, Raina Greenberg.com. So I just bought it. You did? Yeah. I bought it through Squarespace. You got any plans for it? Yeah.

We'll see. Yeah. Okay, I do. But I didn't know why you would have had it, is my question. I think it's interesting to be somebody with a large platform not own the domain of your name. So you were able to get it? I got it. Raina.

I couldn't believe it. Huge. Huge get. And there is another Raina Greenberg who is like this baddie in New York. We're friends. She's the same age to me. She works in PR. I can't believe she does.

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And so we can't recommend it enough. You guys can head to Squarespace.com slash GGE for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use GGE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Okay. Let's get into it. All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome two amazing women to the show today. Our first guest is the founder of Elbe Media.

And previously, she was editor-in-chief of InStyle, Executive Editor of Harper's Bazaar, and senior editor at W. She is here with her co-author of their new book, the head of Sudabees Media, and editor-in-chief of Sub-Bee's magazine. Previously, she served as editor-in-chief of Wall Street Journal magazine, executive editor at Harper's Bazaar. Together, they are the authors of the new book.

All the cool girls get fired. Please welcome to the show, Laura Brown, Christina O'Neill. Whoa. Thank you. Welcome. That was such a powerful multi-selemic resume.

Did I? That was incredible. This is your second in-person interview after Oprah? Did I do better than Oprah? And at timestamp, yes, you are the most efficient resume reader of all time. So yes. You could do one breath diving with that.

I'm just saying. I get so excited to write these intro. You both are such amazing women. I mean, what you've done in media is unbelievable. So I've followed you for years and your career and growing up, all everyone to do was work for a magazine and the whole thing. Like I loved reading your stories. The beginning of the book is my personal favorite because it's your stories.

The origin story. And I saw the book. And the post you guys posted, what, a year or so ago? The getting fired post? Probably, whatever this was. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is brilliant. This is true.

Yeah. All the cool girls do get fired. And I told Raina we have to have them on. And then we just had to wait until the book was done. Yeah, we had to write it. I had to write it. And it took ages. Actually, we were fast.

But it does. Yeah, it's hard as a whole. You turned it in early? What a flex. We're over achievers. I love that. Yeah, it's like type A plus. That's amazing.

Yeah, we really sought you up. I emailed Simon & Schuster like a year ago and they were like, can you relax? I like, can you? We're like, can we get, can we put Kamala Harris out for a minute and then we'll get to you. We almost had Kamala then she did call her daddy instead. It's okay. We've almost had Kamala twice. Twice, yeah. Anyways.

Welcome. Congrats in the book. Thank you. And we love the book and as two girlies who were formally also fired as fuck. That's right. We love to. Sorry, I think it's really important. F-A-F. Yes. Fafing. Yes. That'll be the sequel.

You fuck around and find out. Oh, yeah. So let's talk about your origin story. You're both these incredible, like, powerhouse women in media. How did you meet? What happened? Do you, yeah. We fittingly met at a fashion show because that's where all good girls in fashion meet. It's all, like, useful fashion obsessive. Yeah. So we met the night before 9-11 at the Mark Jacobs show that was this, epic, amazing. It would have gone down in history either way, but the fact that it was the night before 9-11, I think really crystallized in everyone's mind just how much the world had changed. Yeah. In 12 hours. So I met Laura Brown. We had a mutual friend who was sort of, I think you snuck into the show. Is that true? Oh, yeah. You were always destined to get fired. I was like, I know

I'm a kiss of death. No, I'd been in New York for six days. I'd moved from Sydney. And I was dazzled. And I was staying with my friend Libby Calloway, who of the time was the fashion editor of The New York Post, and I'd met her in Australia and we became sort of instant besties. So I've been there for six days and she somehow, and this Mark Jacobs show, I mean, he's still the thing, but he was the thing. Totally 100%. It was like on a pier and everyone was famous.

But Libby somehow had snuck me in. And I was like on stalks. Like it was like sex in the city. Sarah just got to call his shit over there. Chris like supermodels over here and champagne everywhere and everything was grapes. There was grapes everywhere. Lots of grapes. It was like ancient Greece, but like, nostalgia.

2001. And I was just walking around, tottering probably on some sort of stupid shoe. And my friend Libby came up and Christina was sort of sitting down somewhere at a, I call it the grape table. At the grape table. And she went, Laura, this is Christina. And I went, I met her. And our first impressions of each other were. She talked a lot.

She thought I talked a lot and I thought she was judging me and this has not changed. This is completely the same 24 years later. So we met then and then obviously it was a very particular time in history in 2001. But I don't know how often we socialized in the between. I think we would like see each other at events and sort of on the like fashion show's circuit. You eventually started working at details. But then cut to. W magazine.

Yeah, details W, W whatever. and then cut to Valentine's Day 2005. Laura Brown started at Harper's Bazaar, where I had been... Ensconced. Ensconced. I had actually been working there when we met at the Mark Jacobs show.

So I had already been there for about five years, and Laura came in and just... I think that was like when everything sort of clicked with the team. Right. The boss who hired Laura was someone who inherited me. So she sort of had brought in her own team, and it kind of took a minute for her to, like, get the right people around her, but once Laura came in, we were sort of like off to the races.

It became really fun. Yeah. I know we're going to talk about the getting fired today, but I could sit here and talk to you guys for hours just about working in media and magazines at that time. In the 2000s. Like, I mean, and I say like the world was just different pre-9-11. You guys met the literal night before. But just the 90s, late 90s, early 2000s, like really.

What a time. And we were. And, you know, because when I started there, 2005, I would have been, I think, 31 or something. You would have been 29 or about 30. And you're at that age where you're just everywhere. I know. You'd be like, you'd have a drinks, then a drinks,

then you'd have a dinner. You know what I mean? And we were just hurtling our asses around New York City. It was so overexcited. I had no money. You had so much energy. My clothing was from forever 21. I didn't give a shit.

I was everywhere with you. We were like borrowing things from the fashion closet. Yes. Yeah, you're on a driver. it, return it. And then you'd get invited to a fashion show and you're being like row E or F or G or whatever the alphabet goes to, what are the 27th letter of the alphabet. But you were just like, yeah.

Totally. And we were just so overstimulated all the time. We'd have a little girl gang and we'd go out and like, I would always be Nana home early, but everyone would go out on the wine and end up at like the double seven or all these meatpacking clubs that were the thing because meatpacking was still because we're so old. But anyway, we were doing all of that and then producing. And now we had, Glenda would tell you our boss, she was really tough, but like very enthusiastic

and she was really demanding. And for like Glenda, the greatest success would be like if you got your cover on the front page of the New York Post or on page six. But it was also a time when fashion was really becoming part of the like pop culture landscape. And so so much of what we were sort of charged with doing, I mean, this was before social media. So it was a completely different, like how we would communicate all the great work that we were doing looked very, different. Yeah, to be like page six really was it. Like page six was it. And all of the sort of ways that we would try to get our, you know, stories out into the culture, you know, it was like Laura was on

TV talking about our covers or we were doing things. Like, it was really a fun, very, very different time. Yeah. And, you know, then obviously we stayed and stayed and stayed. I ended up, you know, not leaving there until 2012. So I was there for 12 years. Laura stayed on after I. I left, you know, it was like the decade I would say when fashion just sort of like exploded. And then obviously digital came along and like completely changed the game. Ruin everything. No, I'm just kidding. But thank you for like regaling us with the story.

No. And then Christina got the big boss job at WSHA magazine in 2012. And I got the big boss job at Instale in 2016. So she was four years. And when she left, I was happy for her about how sad. Yeah. Because my friend had gone. That's what we were like.

And you know, we were like arm and arm. but like real life friends. And I think that was just that era. It was probably a lot to do with our age. But like you really did kind of like work all day. And then you would like go out to dinner together or, you know, go on vacations together. Like it was just where everything just kind of moved together. And so, you know, when I left, it really did kind of start to like break the gang up a bit.

She broke up the gang. I could like feel this story. Yeah. Following the money. She followed the money. Listen, I love money, but I love my friends too. She got the big job. No, it was like the editor-in-chief gig, you know.

You conditioned to one, you know, and I mean through all of these years. But you guys have been in fashion for so long. That's not a hot take. But, I mean, the changes that have come through, I mean, it was like, you're, to your point, so gate-kept fashion. And then page six was the newspaper. Yeah. And then, you know, you have social media. And then influencers became the models on the runways.

And it was crazy to be like, these are the models now? You're like, why is this person walking up and down with the phone in front of the car? Haven't they found their car? And then I was like, oh, it took me a minute. And I was like, wow, these people are having a really hard time finding their car. Yeah. Because they're just doing pictures all day. Get ready with me to go to a fashion show.

Yeah. So you guys both really achieved your dreams of becoming editor-in-cheats. Yeah. Chiefs is a weird, plural word. Yeah. And then tell us how it came crashing down. Well, okay. Well, Laura gets to go first because she got fired first.

And look, and again, we became editors in chief and yay, yippie, screw, you know, we got that. But it was not, you know, our era of even, even Christ. seen as the challenges were starting to begin for legacy media. It was starting to the digital was taking over. You know, advertising was going, which some way or another. We weren't in the town car, Condonast mythical era, which was fine because we worked hard. We have neither one of us come from money. We really, we worked.

We worked. We worked so hard. And so we, you know, most of the grindstone sort of did that. And so, you know, come 2016, I was high in 2016. and, you know, I get hired. It's like Trump is elected three months later. And I, at Instile, went through three different company owners. I walked in and Time Inc was going through its death rattle then.

And it was married, which was a bunch of conservative guys from Des Moines who actually kind of really loved because they were like really straightforward. And then we got bought by this company called Dot Dash, which a bunch of media, New York media kind of bros. So through my tenure there, it was COVID. It was not simple. And we did great work. It's like tough.

Through COVID. Yeah, it was like, you know, we just did really, really great work. And there was a part of me that was like, and when COVID ended, I was a bit like, oh, okay, oh, we got this actress on the cover and she has to wait Louis Vuitton because we need their money. And I was getting a bit like the dog with the head out the window, as I say, in the book. I was thinking of doing my own thing at the end of the year. I did not think in any way we're all going to get absolutely shit canned in February of 2022. So I was not paying the most attention, I guess, like day to day.

But yeah, we were all, myself and my team were sort of called on, I got 20 minutes notice, but my team was fired on a Zoom and just sort of given the script. You know, I'm going to call you HRs, they've got to give you a script because they've got to tick all their legal boxes and everything else. And so that was, yeah, that was February. And I remember getting everybody back on this all hands call on my new joke. It's like, you know all hands meetings sound like sort of like a big hug? You're always getting fired. All hands means you're getting fired.

Oh my gosh. And so, but you know what I mean? It's like it's never good. Or it's like somebody yelling or a protest or something. Anyway, so then I got back on the Zoom with my team and I remember saying something that is actually the very spine or the inception of the book now, of sort of saying you guys,

and especially to my baby employees who was their first job and, you know, saying your value is yours, what you've created and learned in this job is yours. You know what I mean? You own this. Do not give them power over you. Do not let them take it from you. And that's the essence of this book.

So I was done February, went off, actually got married, knew I wasn't going to work for anybody ever again, let things sort of come to me and all of that. And then cut to record screech 14 months later and... I got the boot. Oh. Yeah. I mean, I had gone through some changes in the job because there had been different editor-in-chiefs because the newspaper, you know, had gone through a lot of transition in the 10 years that I was there. But the magazine was sort of its own fiefdom. We, you know, kept her heads down, made a lot of money, you know, had a very successful product, both editorially and advertising. So when the new boss came in, she was announced in December of 2022 and started

in February 2023. So she started and, you know, it was like hectic. It's a global news organization. At the time, we had a colleague who had been, you know, unlawfully detained in Russia. Like, there was a lot of shit going on. So I was sort of like, okay, cool, we're just going to they stay over here in my lane and keep doing what I'm doing. But February went by and then March went by. It's the end of April. And I was like, okay, it's a little weird. I haven't met with her. She's like, I don't need to learn your name because you won't be here. Maybe it's like a little weird. Three months. I haven't met your last. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, it doesn't matter how much like money we were minting. Maybe that should have been a sign.

So I finally get the meeting. You know, my team and I, like, we prepped like crazy for it because here I am thinking like she's so busy. We're just going to like knock her socks off. Like, you know, we did PowerPoints. There was like printouts. It was like all this shit ready to go. And my sweet assistant at the time right before the meeting, we're like standing around.

It was probably a group of four or five of us. You know, do you have everything. Okay. Like this, you know, we're going to do this portfolio first. You're going to bring it. Then you're going to pull up the PDF. Then you're going to show that. And she said, oh, by the way, the meeting location just changed from her office to the

HR floor. Oh, I felt that. like in my chest. Oh no. I mean. So it was like, dun-da-da-da-da-da-da. And like mass firing, just get every in the room. No, it was just me. It was just me. It was a special girl. So literally I said, okay, guys, I'll be right back. I'm going to go get fired. And lo and behold, I did. And then the team didn't? Like, how many people were on your team? My team was almost 50 people by the time I left. And no, I was one of one. I was really singled out at the exclusive at the time.

someone getting fired. It was super exciting. No, so I was, so I go to this, you know, HR room and it is sort of as Laura describes, you know, someone's there with the script. You have an HR professional kind of making sure that everything is, you know, diligence is done. Yeah. Yeah. But she said to me, you know, we're happy to follow your narrative. Right. And I thought, my narrative, like, what do you mean? And I couldn't like in the moment imagine coming up with a lie. They could be carry forward the disappointment and devastation that I felt. Were you like in that moment? Did you black out?

Yeah, kind of. When I lost a job, I'd only been there for like a year and a half. It wasn't my whole world that I dedicated my life to. I mean, I would, how do you even have any clarity in a moment like that to be able to tell them what the narrative is? In the book you write, like I wasn't embezzling. What do you mean? Not from there.

Yeah. That's the narrative. Yeah. You know, listen, I think we work in an industry where. where, you know, people are very worried about other people's perceptions. Absolutely. And, you know, at the same time, like, while I knew, like, wait, I'm good at my job. Like, I didn't do anything wrong.

Like, she literally does just want to go in a different direction. Why would I come up with some bullshit sort of adding to the sort of, like, you know, carrying the narrative forward by also being like, oh, I'm going to go start my own company. Like, I had, there was nothing brewing. My head was not out of the window like Laura's was. Like, I hadn't registered my LLC. see, like, I hadn't done anything. So there wasn't even, like, a glimmer of, like, what I would do next.

And, you know, like, listen, that is one of the things that, like, in writing this book ever when we meet, they're like, you guys getting fired made me think about what would happen if I ever got fired. And, like, if that's a gift, take it. Yes. I think it's really important to think about it. But in the moment, like, I do remember thinking, like, what will I tell people? What will I tell my next employer?

What would the story be like? I'm a year and a half on this resume, everybody's going to ask, why did you leave your job? And you have to say, I got fired. You start thinking. like how am I going to spin this and ever get another job again? And thank God you both had resumes to back up an incredible career. And we all do. But I was young.

But we all do in a way. And it's like, you know, I think that's what in a big part of this book is women tend to forget. And men too. But it's like being honest and saying, I mean, you fired laid off the same stuff. You know what I mean? Like being honest, it's shitting enough. You got fired. You got to try and find another job.

And then you're carrying around this burden of some spin you've had to make up. And you're going to make sure it's consistent and right. And it's a lie. You know what I mean? Rather than like, you know, there was a change of the thing. I got laid off where we got fired. Right. Especially 2025, you're amongst hundreds of thousands of people.

Absolutely. You know what I mean? So don't take, you know, there's no gain in taking this big, heavy kettlebell of bloody shame and spin and going, well, it's that. Because it's everywhere. And if you do that, it just slows down your future. Yeah. It's like, you know, because you've got this on. You've already got to pay your rent.

You've already got always immediate stresses. So why do you always say it's like an anvil on the head and then you just put another one on? Yeah. And it is like this keeping the story straight part. It's like, why not just call it what it is? And that was the thing for me like in the moment. I mean, you asked if I like blacked out. Like there are parts of that meeting that I have zero recalled.

Of course. And I know I was not. I was in there for longer than like three minutes. So it's like there were other things said and, you know, I probably said something else. But that I don't have full. But what I do remember is I total clarity. around the fact that I said, nope, we're going to go and tell my team tomorrow that you're firing me. And then I asked if they would have a part, throw a party for me and pay for it.

That's right. I love that you actually took the three minutes of your body is flooded with cortisol. You actually are blacking out. You are panicking and you're like, can we have a party? We're going to celebrate. Also, what did you do in that HR meeting? I did not sign anything. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, and I texted Laura under the table. I was just going to say it's at our first call, obviously. She was like, oh, okay. No, no, no, no. I love that point. I love that. I love that point. I love that you had the where I thought not to sign anything. I mean, again, you're, we were an adult, but like, we'll encourage people to read the book, but there is so much stuff like that in the book. Like, don't sign anything in that moment when you're blacked out. There was

like a packet of paper like this thick. And it's like being pushed at you and you're kind of like, uh, uh, like in that moment, no. Like I couldn't even see straight. I mean, I could see enough to text Laura underneath the table. I was like, giving props for hand eye coordination, frankly. She's got all these documents and PDFs that are being ignored because she's being fired. She's got a packet of papers and she's texting at the same time. I mean, what a gift. Only women. What a gift. Could multitask like that. Having it all. But I think that the shame, I validate people's shame, but it's real. It really does happen to everybody. It's like getting dumped. Yeah, it's exactly like a broken engagement. And she would always say at the time, she was like, who would this happen to?

This hasn't happened to anyone. It's so embarrassing. It's so shameful. And it's like, it happens, everybody gets dumped. Everybody gets fired. Or divorced. Like, yeah. And people just, you know, are so busy trying to keep their social status going that oftentimes they don't necessarily address it. And it's like, shit happens to everyone in every way. And so the sooner, not everyone has to walk down the street within an emotional billboard every day, but you know what I mean? The sooner you share this stuff. And it could be like, I mean, look, what's going on with menopause now? What's going on with us? What's going on with you guys? It's like, the sooner we share this, we lift this burden for everyone that we voluntarily place on ourselves.

Absolutely. And I think that, I think that we're starting, the younger generation is trying to undo this like girl boss mentality, but we were raised with girl boss mentality. I mean, your job is your worth. It was my whole identity. I moved to New York when I was 22. I mean, I tied my worth to my job 100%. That's all I wanted to do is like work and tell people what I did for work. Well, then you go boss too close to the sun and then what happens? Not that girl boss to close to the sun. So let's talk about the identity. You start podcast. There's a great chapter about, I think it's in the mental health chapter about all of that. and like identity tied up in your job and what to do, what not to do, not shutting people out,

maybe getting off social media. I mean, what are some of your, each of your tips, like right after in the mental health section? Yeah, I mean, we firmly believe that you need to take whatever time you need to take. And if that involves, like, laying on your sofa for a week and drinking wine starting at 4 p.m. We're all for it. Yeah.

Or 11. 11. 11 a. That's fine, too. Treat it like it's COVID. Yeah. What a time. COVID for life.

That's so... Brand of Mrs. COVID every day. Every day, I would be like, it's 11 too early to start drinking. I never showered. It was amazing. So anyway, that's the same energy. Some sloppy good parts,

wasn't that sort of COVID-y? Like, we all just kind of got fired from the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was solidarity there. Yeah. So, no, I mean, we encourage that. But obviously, you can't, like, wallow and retreat forever.

And we do believe, like, the sooner you're out, at least with the people who make you feel safe, and heard, like get in front of those people talk about it. Like, talking about it really helps. Obviously, if, you know, you are in a mental health spin and you need, like, professional help, seek it. But I think, you know, for me, I had to stay in the job for six weeks until I kind of got my official, like, party papers. So I'm a long goodbye. Tell me for your party. It was a very long goodbye. I thought she said party papers. I didn't talk to the table for her party papers. That's code of receipts and she didn't have to pay for him.

This is the invoice for the party. It's the party paper. Here you go. I stayed until I filed my Lexus. A new Watergate. They needed to find like a venue and a florist and a DJ. Her party favorites. I would be like, talk about insult to injury.

You're fine. Now organize your own party. She was like, can I borrow what? Just like an outfit from the closet. It was a really fun party. No, but my team needed closure. That needed to happen and that was great. But oh my God, you guys are making me laugh.

No, but I think that the sort of, you know, know, in the immediate aftermath, like, you do have to start talking about it. And you have to kind of get out there. And it depends on your industry. Like, we had industry events that we could go to and show up at and sort of like show our faces. And it just helped like kind of immediately start destigmatizing the shame. Because you actually have to bring some ego into it. You know what I mean? Again, like I was saying like, your value is yours. And it's like, and the reason we did that bloody Instagram post in the first place was like, all the cool girls get fired. Yeah, we're cool. We know what we're doing. We're really good at our jobs. We got fired. Yes. You know what I mean? Those things can

coexist. And again, this year, and this time in history, coexists more than ever, ever, ever, ever before. But yeah, I went to a fashion show the day after I got fired. I love that. I went to, like, the coolest fashion show in Newark family. And I was like, you know what? I deserve to be here. I earned the right to be here. I've been a journalist for 27, 28 years in fashion media. And it was You're certainly in shock, but there was a bit of strategy, you know, a bit of guttural strategy to it. Yes. Being like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to look cool.

I'm going to go to this and everyone's going to go, oh, my God, oh, my God. Yeah, what can you believe it? Oh, shit. Yeah, hug, hug, hug, hug, bye. But that tells the whole room of people. I'm not an idiot. They're idiots. Yeah.

And this goes for anyone. You know what I mean? Breaking news and the rest of the world doesn't go to fashion shows the day after they get fired. But it is like sort of, if you're on the couch and you're drinking and you're eating cake and whatever, just sort of put up a periscope. you know, just a little bit of what's out there and just deploy yourself in a way that makes you feel comfortable in in places where you know you'll be cared for and not places that you know that you want, you know what I mean? And you know, it's like, it's like a metabolism. You know

how much you can take of that. A lunch every now and again, a text and email. You've got to listen to yourself too. But guess what? Getting out in the world does tend to make you feel better. Because all that time spent alone, even if you're in a good space in life, how often do you end up feeling worse if you're at home on your own for too long. So you get that encouragement. You get a bit of validation. You get a bit of a hug, a pat in the back of call me, a free drink, you know, any of that stuff. So we super, there's, there's nothing good that comes from isolating yourself. Yeah. And the talking about it, I had a friend in a group of friends that I have that got fired and I knew she felt so embarrassed about it and wasn't telling the rest of the group. And I was one of

the few people that knew and they were like, she's not telling everybody. And we were all together and she told everybody and you could feel the sense of relief and everybody rallied around her and, you know, tells you how worthy you are and doesn't that feel nice and we've all been there. It feels so good. So it's just like, I bet she was wishing like, why would I hold this in? Why didn't I do this sooner? Lose this time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't put your hand up, like, no one's going to grab it and like pull you along, you know, and I think that's the other thing. Like our industry is so word of mouth. It's so based on relationships. It is such a, who do you know, who can help? You know, how can you sort of like leverage your network.

And if you're not communicating within that group of people, and maybe they're two or three degrees removed type of people. Right. But even so, like, those are potential connections to get you where you want to go next. And I think for us, it was really important to kind of telegraph it. Like, both of our companies sent press releases. I mean, we were public billboard fired. Yeah.

Which is not up. Yeah. Like press release fired, you know. And that doesn't matter again. You have to tell the people that care for you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

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So the book is a great handbook essentially of the technical stuff to do. We said we're not going to get into that today. But we encourage everyone to go through. get the book. Yeah, get the book. I mean, it's really step by step because I think people's heads are spinning and they're like, I know I should be doing something on the legal, the unemployment, all this stuff. So anyway, all that's in the book for you guys. And I think that's really important. We just weren't going to outline it all today so you guys can get it in the book. But should we talk about really what came next? Yeah. I mean, I like that you both kind of like walked out the door and went to a media event and didn't like wallow. And I mean, some people need to obviously go home, open the door to their house and apply for unemployment. That most. I mean, I like you both. moment. And whatever you need to do to feel better. But I remember an ex of mine got fired and I was like, okay, let's write a resume. Let's write a cover letter. Let's start applying. And he was like, can I just have like a second to digest this? No, you need a second. And I think that you guys gave yourself that grace and put yourselves in rooms with people to remind yourself. I built a network. There's tons of

bridges to other things that I have. You know, like look at my career in front of me. I think you both did something immediately next to remind yourself. I'm still in it. And I love that. And I love that. the local bar or Starbucks or somewhere where you know your industry is. Like it doesn't matter what that place is. It is because wherever you work, you know where the value is and you know where your community is and you know we're going to feel comfortable. And it's really, really important because people do want to help. And now, again, with, you know, this year we're reading something like three quarters of a million

layoff this year, like just mostly government agencies, everything else. There is more empathy now in the workplace than there's ever been. There's going to be dick bosses everywhere. We all know that, you know. But there is more understanding of all of these changes. There is more understanding of that you were three months at a place and then you got chucked. There is all of that. That's your point about that gap in the resume.

I think all of that is like gone. Yeah. I think so too. You know? I think people stay a job shorter a period of time. Yeah. And people have like three jobs. And you have no idea like what's the full-time job.

What's the consultancy? What's the sort of like, you know, part-time hustle? like you look at someone's resume and it's very hard now, I think, to tell, like, it's not linear like it used to be. People are catching things together, you know, and also like sort of the silver lining, but we say, what is it, pewter lining? Because you feel like shit, everything's shit. Everything is shit. The pewter lining is also that the workplace isn't linear and that this, this corner office doesn't need to be the goal anymore. The individual, you guys are absolute testament to this. The individual is the career, is your economy. You two, as hosts of this are your business.

And not everyone's going to host a podcast. Not everyone is an entrepreneur. But there's so many different things the individual can do based on their individual skills that don't rely on a corporate, a 401K on that sort of structure, which is so challenged right now. So you asked, Ashley asked what's next. And something I want to go back to that you said is when you were at your job, you thought, like, what else is out there?

Maybe I'll start something else. Maybe, maybe, maybe down the line. And were you like, oh, my God, this is my chance? I had registered LB Media on LegalZoom and set up an email address on GoDaddy. I remember because I was like, I am a professional in 2020. I realized it was that far in advance. And I'd had this thing, nothing to do with COVID.

I don't know what it was. I'd known that I sort of had enough what I would say, LB juice to do my own thing because I was becoming a little bit tired of having my fate, my mood or my day controlled by these kind of publishing overlords in an increasingly challenged and fickle business. I knew that. I had sort of social media insurance. I existed for every cover of in style on social media that might be being a koala or a meal, like as Laura, you know, so I knew I had had that. But now I thought about doing a few other

different things. So when it happened, I quite literally went and got my little pleather folder with my LLC in it out of the drawer in the back of my house. And was like, all right. Here we go. You know, so, you know, the timing was forced, but the sensibility and the desire was always there. And I just had to be activated. But you have a different story. And you talk about in the book, you liked working for a company. Like, you didn't have the secret LLC on the back for it. Like it was just, I like the, yeah, I just, I liked hearing that because I think there's no right or wrong. I was always a person that's like, I can't work for anybody. I'm just I'm a problem. I can't be managed. And you were like, I like it. I like the stability. Like,

I want to be at this big company and feel that security. So it was a different story for you. Yeah, I think we're very different in that. Like, Laura took this as a sign that, like, she never has to work for someone else again. And I took this as, you know, for all of my, like, entrepreneurial instincts, I like applying them within, like, the rigidity of an organization and not always having to invoice. Totally. Yeah.

It does suck. We all right now. We're on the way over here. We're like, we haven't invoiced yet. Or, like, no, what we're always doing is like. Half of our conversation is, did you do the docky sign? Yeah. It's like, it's so hot.

Yes, and when you go on your own, that minutia. I mean, how many times people just not send invoices? Like, mostly men. But like, we will be, we'll chase down. And it's not that you don't want the money. You're just like, I have so much on my plate. I know. It's just a lot of busy work.

Being an entrepreneur, yes. Yeah, it's hard. And when you work for a big company. I mean, the book is like a sort of a slice of that type of, you know, behavior. And that is, you know, I'm capable of sending an invoice for something. working on it for the book. But my like day job, I can't have my like full time sort of, you know, my, my boyfriend, my, you know, partner is also, uh, sort of, you know, creative like Laura and has his own company and, you know, he's having to pitch and hustle and, you know, sort of kind of like

chase like work in a way that's really rewarding when it all lands. But it's just a different way of sort of, you know, and he's always done that. That's like his benefit. And I was like, We can't have two of us doing this. Yeah. So, you know, I think if I had like some lightning strike idea where it was like, this is the thing that's like going to take me in this other direction. Or a match that was lit, for example. Yeah, I mean, we'll see where the book goes.

But I think for now, it's like we keep forgetting like the book. No, but I think for me, I just didn't feel like I was done making magazines. Like I really love kind of like just collating everything. that's happening in the culture and like translating it for an audience and like creating like I love the visual execution of magazine making. I love working with writers and teams and like pulling all the ideas together. And, you know, I was very lucky in that the CEO of Sotheby's who was someone who I had known, you know, a little bit from my job at WSJ, we had covered Sotheby's, we had interacted socially. He had seen a few events that we had done and I had been to a few things that they had done.

So we just started talking. And, you know, he called me like the day after the announcement had been made that I was leaving. And, you know, not that I like dismissed it, but I was not in the headspace. I was a little bit like, I need a minute. Let me think about it. And as conversation sort of evolved over the period when I wasn't working until I kind of knew that I needed to start working, it was the only thing that I kept coming back to. I was like, Sudabies has so much cultural, like, impact. You know, it's a 200. 181 year old company now. It's global. And it sort of is talking to the same consumer that I've been talking to my entire career. It's a luxury audience. And so what we ended up kind of cobbling together was just a really challenging, interesting kind of position that had never existed in their company before. And certainly wasn't something that like I sort of sat down and like, you know,

whiteboarded. But as the conversation kind of grew, I was like, this could be really interesting. and it sort of, you know, ensures that the paycheck shows up every two weeks. Yeah. I mean, I like that you say that and you're both so different. And being entrepreneur, being entrepreneur is amazing. I'm proud of what we built. But there is definitely something to be said for stability and knowing you're going to

a paycheck. There's systems in place. There's processes. You don't have to do everything yourself. And not everybody loses their job. It has a big idea. I think there's this pressure to be like, oh, I'm out of my own and I can go do my own thing now.

Not everybody needs to become an influencer or launch a business. If you can, great. But it sounds like you also found an outlet so you can work. work inside of a company and be creative. And this is entrepreneurial to write a book. 100%. And we had sold the book before I started working there. So I went in with a very clear like, hey guys, I'm going to have this thing come out in about

a year and a half about me getting fired from the old job. Right. But they've been really supportive. And I have to say, I think because the message is so clear and positive, like we are really saying like the workplace is shifted. This is not an alone experience anymore. And the whole point of the book is to really lift people up and, like, bring people along in their conversations about what happened to them. And also, like, even if you take a job that you need for the reasons that you needed, being fired or can't, what we urge people as well is to listen to the, not everyone's an entrepreneur, but there's some little pilot light in everyone somewhere that, that, you know, there's just the best bit of advice in the book that is from a finance, finance guy, Ron Lieber at New York Times.

And he literally says, if you've been fired or whatever, look back over the course of your career to him what made you happy and what made you happy and what made you. made you less happy. What can you do going forward to increase the happiness and decrease the unhappiness? And in some people, it is like, oh, there is this creative thing that maybe I want to investigate. Maybe it's not going to make me all the money. Maybe I've still got to go to this job. But that's what's, there is also a hybridization to be. You don't have to be an entrepreneur or or a paid worker. You know what I mean? This is all of these nonlinear ways to, I mean, I read a story in the times the other day, and it was very depressing. It was about how college educated people who were always presumed to be eminently hireable, we're all getting laid off now.

And there was a guy and he was cobbling together, work from here and there and everywhere. And it wasn't really what. He had written code. And he was getting sort of wiped by AI, right? So he was doing all these different jobs. But it was a part of him and he was like, you know, I always really liked board games. And I used to make, I used to love making board games. And now I'm going to see that if I can do that too.

And it wasn't going to be where his check was coming. It wasn't going to be where his lovely wood was coming. But the fact that he'd allowed his mind to go there was like a solve for all the shitty stuff. Yeah. What do they say? The best way to get a raise is to leave your job and go to the next job. And lie about your former salary. But it really is like you will get a jump. And like I getting fired was the greatest blessing for me because I never would have taken the leaps next. And I worked in restaurants. I really wanted to work for Danny Meyer. I never would have the balls to apply because I was like, I'm not good enough. Everybody that works there went

to Cornell for management school. And I was just like, well, I have nothing to lose now. I have no money. I have no job. Yeah. Sometimes it makes you sex. up. I just, I cold emailed the company and was just like, I don't know if you guys are hiring, but I would love to interview and I never would have had the balls to do that. I had a great salary at my job. I would have never left. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't have left. No, exactly. You have to be shocked into it sometimes. Do you guys? Do you guys remember Daily Candy? Do you remember? Oh my gosh. I was there Atlanta editor and it was like a dream job. I couldn't believe that was my job. And I had had the job for three years and I felt like it was time to go. I had my own blog. It was starting to take off,

but I couldn't dedicate all my time to it because I was running around doing stuff for Daily Candy and the company shut down. All the local editors got let go. And it was so crushing, but I had that same feeling of like, why would I leave? Right. Until you're forced into it. Yeah. I would have never, I would probably still be like twirling away at WSJ, groundhog daying my way through life. And the longer you're there, the more family you develop and especially if you say to yourself like, who leaves a job? I get the job at Daily Candy. It's my dream. Who would leave something? like this. That's crazy. And I never would have left my job. I was like, I thought I was the biggest

baddie on the block. I worked for like this big restaurant group and I never would have left. And when I left, I met my now ex-fiancee, which is like my biggest, most defining moment in my life is what happened with him. And I write about it in comedy and I talk about it on the show. And Ashley and I like would never have met. I mean, it forced me down a path. I never would have gone on. I feel sick to think about. I wouldn't have been fired. I know. I know. Well, it's like what Oprah says in the book. The setback is a setup. Well, that's, of what we want to talk about. Like, I don't know many women, or people, I guess, but, you know, I'd like to talk to women that have gotten fired that don't say it was the best thing.

And the same with breakups. I think there's so much correlation between the two. You don't want to hear it at the time. You want to punch the person who's saying it in the face. Well, you can only see it through the line. You don't want to hear it in the moment. Yeah. But they're probably right.

Yeah. So you guys do have a whole, I think it's the end about reinventing yourself. All the different ladies who wrote to us. And this was so wonderful because. Oh, the quote. or something. When we started, we call it Cool Girls Who Had Epiphanies.

And we asked, all the way through the process of reading a book, do you have a story that you want to share with us on our Cool Girls email? And we had women really like unloading things that maybe ever taught anybody before.

And every single one that was probably 30 or so in the book have reached the conclusion that it was the best thing that could have happened to them. It took them a minute. It takes a minute.

I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said, no one wants to hear this. Which will be the greatest thing. You're like, shut the fuck up. Don't say that to people. But guess what? In times, times that they show more ownership of their skills and their future.

Some of them started their own business. The most beautiful, one I love so dearly is the last passage in the book. It's from four girls who worked in marketing and Instile. So they got laid off too. And they started a business together called Out of Office Marketing. And the most beautiful lyrical passage about ownership and teamwork. and running their own show. And it's just, and we've seen them on the tour.

And it's like, that's it. Yeah, that's what you can do. And again, there are people there for you, you know, again, if you reach out your hand. And we hear from women, on LinkedIn right now is a buzz. We're just connecting, like, absolute frenzy on LinkedIn, because all these, we go, because we know if they're connecting with this, they've got a story, you know, and the stories we're getting are so unbelievable.

And so there's just no regrets. I think there's just, when you walk out that door, there's so much shame attached to it. And I remember thinking, I'm the only person this has ever happened to. How will I ever share this with anybody? I'm so humiliated. But what you're doing is so important to just remind people that this happens to everybody. And like so much good comes from it. But man, it feels so bad in that moment.

We wish you had our book. Oprah was like, I wish I had your book. And we're like, you do now. And she's like, I don't really need it. I'm all set. If she ever fires me, I want to circle back to how you got your next position, which was through a connection while you were at your existing job.

And this is going to be the coldest take of the interview. But really, just the connections that you make, just that's the networking and having those and keeping them in your back pocket and showing up, presenting well to people while you currently have a job is so important. Any job I've ever gotten was from a connection from the previous one. And so never stop thinking about what's next. You're the prime example of that and how important it is. It's like my number one who's a career advice.

I don't think it's a cold take. My dad always said to me since I was young, never burn a bridge. Never ever burn a bridge. That's why we say don't go scorched earth on your previous employer. Absolutely. Like, I mean, to this day, I will tell you, I loved that job. Like, I love working there. Publicly, you'll tell us that much.

No, but like, for real, I really, like, I have no, like. Totally. And I think that's one of the things that we really want people to kind of take away from one, download your context while you still work in your current job. Because as soon as that email is shut off, sometimes it is hard to kind of get things back from, you know, the tech part of whatever. So, you know, do keep up with like your network. And also like we also were terrible examples of this, but we weren't, you know, constantly updating our bios and like republishing things

to LinkedIn and doing all that. You can do things along the way, especially in this like, you know, landscape right now where there's so much change to put yourself in a better position when you're in your current job. And you're not realizing, you're not realizing while you're out. I ran a council for red, the HIV organization, and that's because I'd met all those guys throughout the years and you two and all that kind of stuff. And they heard this had happened and asked me to do that. And now I can use my skills from fashion media entertainment in like global health. And that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't just been out and about meeting these people. And, you know, my husband says it's like Johnny Appleseed. You're throwing these seeds around your entire

career that you're not necessarily conscious you're doing. You know what I mean? And actually they do bear fruit. They do bear fruit with your experience and with your relationships and when you need them to. Our previous assistant emailed and wanted to work for us, what, a year or a half before we hired her. And her resume was great and we didn't need that job. We didn't need the position at the time. And she would follow up. I think she really had it every six months, she would follow up. But she'd be like, Ann. Buzz, then we ended up hiring her. And I think she was like, whoa, I've really worked out. When you show you've got the DNA.

When we worked together, Harper's Bazaar, there was his kid called Iggy. And he wanted to work at Bazaar so bad in whatever department. And he would go on Twitter. And he wanted to work with me for whatever reason. And he would Photoshop me as DeNaris in Game of Thrones on a throne. And then he would be at my side for some reason. And it was the most camp, ridiculous. And it would make me laugh so hard.

And I was like, who's this? kids who's like funny and got photo. Remember he came in, he interned for ages. He's now like the global like photo director of Vogue. No. I just don't chill. That's crazy. Because he had the nows, the wherewithal, he stuck his hand up.

He was funny. He followed up. So basically just Photoshop. Anyone that you want to work for just turn them into a corner. No, but it's that sort of, you know, that sort of belief in yourself on showing that you have that DNA. Yeah, it's not just sending a resume. I love it.

I think it's just, I'm more surprised. by people that have like a bad reputation for how they treat people and their colleagues are who they come across because I just, it's so important to Ashley and I that everybody that meets us has a good experience. That's whether they work for us. We pay, we pay immediately. We try to treat people as much respect as possible. And I can't imagine not doing that in the workplace because when you are, you're fired for

some reason. Don't you want to have a giant list of people that are just like, she's the best. I loved working with her. She's amazing. Goodwill is what's in this book. Oprah's in this book because we did three shoots and interesting. interviews with her and we got on. Right. You know what I mean? Like that's an very niche example, but goodwill goes so far. Yeah. Well, let's maybe wrap up with a little bit of the state of the

world, not to end it. It's terrific. But I know we talked about it a little bit. The good news is people, it's not linear. Like you said, people have more compassion, all the things we kind of mentioned earlier. But is there anything you guys are seeing? Do you have any helpful tips to just really navigate what is a totally different world than five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, one year ago. Yeah. I mean, I think all of it, right? Like keeping those connections near and dear checking in, figuring out, you know,

it is important, I think, to make sure that you're clear on what you want when you are reaching out to someone, right? Like putting Laura's head on Dineris. I mean, not everyone has to Photoshop my hand. the, you know, work for everybody. Understanding your business, understanding the business that you want to be in. And if you feel yucky or uncomfortable or that's not your business, you know what I mean? Where's your comfort level and where's your interest and following that?

And just reading the horizon of business not because there's so much change. You know, we, there's so much change in our business, which is why we're not bosses of where we were. This is totally different than it did when we started. But there's so much change everywhere. AI, look what the government's doing. You know, it's an absolute shit show, you know. But it gives you power. And the important thing to remember is if you lose your job, you don't lose your power,

it's only in your head if you do. What gives you power is understanding your business and understanding the change and the nuance and positioning yourself through your own curiosity, you know what you have to read 12 books and, you know, become an AI expert. You just have to read the room, you know what I mean? And people hire people. They don't hire, can I use a bad word? Fucking keywords on LinkedIn, you know what I mean?

They don't hire that. They hire people. They're not going to hire like a thing. this resume scan on an AI bot like singled you out like they are going to hire you based on that opportunity and you have a community and the good times

you have a community in the bad community when you're fired you have a community that's going to help you get hired again and you can't forget that and that's sort of it's old fashioned as hell you know it's always people are the friends you made along the way you know what I mean

but they're going to be the ones that are there for you but again you got to stick your hand up oh that was perfect this is beautiful I want you guys to just stay I know. I mean, the book is out. It's been no, well, this will be, it's been a week.

It's been a couple weeks. It's been a couple weeks. It's been out a couple weeks. The book's been out a couple weeks. And how does it feel? You know, it really was like a vibe shift in terms of the fact that it sort of existed in our heads and in our like publishers, you know, offices. And then having it out in the world has been such a fulfilling and incredibly, I can't

even tell you how emotional it's been to kind of connect with all these women who've reached out to us, whether it's on LinkedIn or, you know, through social media. That part, you know, when we realize just how necessary this book is and the timing, you know, being what it is, you know, our hearts are full. It's really moving. And yeah, I'll give the example. There's one who wrote us on LinkedIn and she was an inspector general of a huge government agency. And she was laid off like housing, like really, you know, really meaningful stuff. And she was laid off in that sort of round of one line layoffs that happened, fired at the beginning of the year.

And she wrote this beautiful note and she said, you know, this was really shocking for me and I placed a lot of value in it. This has been so helpful. And then she signed her name and underneath she wrote, Cool Girl. Oh, why does that be so funny? And I was like, I mean, we're lucky enough to meet her at Vital Voices. And just the other day, they were at this, LinkedIn and it was this sweet kids. She must have been, what, 22 or whatever.

And she was like, I was so destroyed when I was like fired from the DMV. And I like, I couldn't get over. But this is amazing and I feel amazing. And there's so much to learn and I feel so much better. And so that's what we do it for. Exactly. It's really so important. And, you know, it really, like this book has existed in our heads now for like two

and a half years since, I mean, literally since we went for drinks right after Laura got back from the trip she was on when I had been fired. And so just to have it. have gone from like an Instagram post to this. And, you know, we're just so grateful for all the readers out there. Like, it's wild. It's really important what you're doing. And we mentioned this, but in the book, there's so much legal advice and financial advice.

And you sat down with so many amazing women and interviewed them. We didn't really mention this. But there's interviews throughout the book of tremendously famous, successful women that lost their careers as well and just had to pick themselves back up. And it's just important to remind people that, like, you feel so humiliated and, like, the world is over, but like it will go on and you can do great things. You feel so vulnerable, but we don't want anyone to feel vulnerable again. Yeah, you're not alone. You're not alone. You're all of us. This is the best community. Girls isn't fired. We're so cool.

Guys, we're awesome. Cool girls. Signifier means anything, you know, out in the world. Fired or fire. Am I right? Were you silent? Am I right? Were you silent? Are you silenced? I know. Just hanging in the Louvre. said when he was she like, is she going to ask you that? And I'm like, well, uh, I think Are you fired or are you fire? In our case, we're both. I'm not exactly, I just went, yes. Sorry, what was the question? Oh, my God. Thank you. Okay, well, just we'll let you guys plug whatever if you, obviously the book, wherever it's sold, but tell people where they can follow you, whatever you, so you have

a floor to plug whatever you want to do. Follow our growing network at all the cool girls get fired on Instagram and TikTok. And it's growing real. fast and that's where the real success is, I think. I'm at Laura By 99. Christina is at Christina underscore O'Neill. And you can go to a bookstore. We've heard of those. Exactly.

And we're also on the internet booksellers. And this week we were, um, names are national bestsellers. So, congratulations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah. I'm so emotional. We gotta get working on our book.

The minute Ashley's getting married this week and as week. She mentioned our book that we are going to do. And she said, I said, the minute, You get married. We already have it. We've got it. It's in the work. Okay, guys, Girls GottaEat.com.

Tickets to our live shows in New York and L.A. In December, Girls Got to Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. You guys have to come. You have to come. TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina's reina. combe.

Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend and we will see a Thursday. Get fired. Have a good week. Bye. Bye.