Girls Gotta Eat - Breaking Down Birth Control with Dr. Jolene Brighten

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

We have the long-awaited Dr. Jolene Brighten in the studio to break down what's normal (and not normal) when it comes to birth control and our bodies. We're covering menstrual cycles, how birth control affects our sex drive and lubrication, the fertility awareness method, Plan B, and even "whisky vagina." Jolene also explains how to get off the pill and how to optimize your health both on and off the pill. Before she joins us, we discuss our own birth control methods (and Ashley has a big update). Enjoy! Follow Jolene on Instagram @drjolenebrighten, get her latest book Is This Normal?, and find more on her website. Follow us @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Shop Vibes Only. Thank you to our partners this week: Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at nutrafol.com when you use promo code GGE. Buffy: Get $20 off your order visit buffy.co and enter promo code GGE. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's so much we're told is normal. Like, you were born with ovaries, so it's supposed to suck. Like emotional roller coasters, check. Painful periods, definitely bleeding through all of your clothing. Yeah, that's just the way it is. And it's not, in fact, normal. Of girls got to eat. Welcome back.

Dress alike. And I come in to the studio and you go, why did you dress like me? And I was like, you got changed while I've been over. So you're wearing these really pretty pink slacks and like a nice little sweat. What do you call that? Like a sleetless sweater shirt. Just a shirt. But we have filming videos for vibes only.

And I thought you were going to wear your nice outfit. I was impressed when you were like, absolutely not. I was like, she's going to change something more comfortable. Record and slack. You know what? I was glad it's never changed. I've never stopped wearing sweatshers to record this podcast. We have been in like at leisure to record this podcast for six years.

Why not? I wore a pair of jeans twice. One time I wore jeans. I remember the love is blind reunion recap. We were about to go record another podcast. It's the only time I've worn jeans to record anything. I remember it. It looked good.

I've worn jeans twice. One time we had a very important business meeting afterwards. Yeah. Like a really important investor meeting. So I wore jeans. And then another time here, I think. We also probably had a meeting after. That's it.

Oh, I wore them when we did Grace Beverly's. I was going to say, what's crazier wearing jeans to record a podcast or jeans on an airplane? When I saw Wear your friend Kate Wear jeans to go to an airport I think about it all the time You know, she's kind of being old school about it When people used to dress nicer for the airport

She dresses nice for the airport She looks great and she feels comfortable I mean live your truth I had a friend that used to lounge and jeans I cannot fathom We'd be watching a movie She'd be in jeans You will never catch me in a gene

When I'm trying to relax I've never worn jeans to our live shows I'm trying to relax on stage I won't do it to the airport I won't do it to lounge Okay, have you ever been... I did wear jean shorts in Texas. Raina, you used to travel

in a jean shorts overalls. Raina, you were those... You wore those jeans shorts overalls every day for like a whole summer. And you swear you didn't wear them on the plane that time, but you did. You were eating soup in your jean shorts overalls.

It was the most funny thing to travel. I wore them to the ball of America. I got to have... fighting with that skinny guy that I was dating. And then I wore them to the airport and ate soup in them. Oh my God. Actually, that's the hardest I've laughed all day. Oh my God.

It's like you forget. It was summer 2018. You lived in them. Listen, you really let me live on truth. 2019, 2019. You didn't tell me I had bad eyebrows. I don't see you like that. Thank you so much.

But there were enough people in your DMs telling you about your eyebrows that I didn't need to. There was that one time you had bad eyebrows, but I didn't know you that well. I was like, I can't tell her. Okay, let me ask you this. Have you ever looked down? and realized you were in jeans and you'd been in jeans for hours. Like, have you ever been out?

Maybe you wore jeans to do something. Then you got home and you started working or doing something. And then all of a sudden hours have passed and you're like, oh my God, I'm in jeans. I could have been in leggings this whole time? Like, have you ever accidentally been wearing jeans? Hell no. My jeans come off in the living room. I'm still downstairs when they hit the floor.

Exactly. But sometimes something happens, extenuating circumstances. And you look down, you're like, I'm in denim. Not even once ever. Like I really don't like being restricted in jeans. It's only happened a few times, but I've been like, what am I? What is this? There have been times, you know, I know I'm really drunk.

I will wake up in the morning and I will have come home from the night before and just dropped my jeans in the middle of my living room and gone upstairs. The drunkest, I feel like I ever was, was when I woke up in jeans. In jeans. No. Like, I remember was there a light stretch in the jeans? No. They were probably just like mid-rise. This was when I was like in my 20s.

but I remember waking up full jeans and you feel like you're going to die. I felt like I was in a body cast. I'm shook by this information. So restrictive. You're like, did you have socks on though? Shoes on. That is shoes.

Crazy. No, I never. If you fall asleep in jeans, you are blacked out. I don't care for a gene. Yeah. Also, I haven't really been wearing leggings that much unless we're at the airport. I haven't put really a legging on since. You love a short.

You love a short. Also, I want to be clear, I'm a slut for jeans. I think I have more pairs than the average person. I have so many jeans. I'm just like very specific about when I wear them. I just cannot lounge in them. Absolutely not. Did you see that meme?

I mean, this is made the rounds where it's like this guy got on a 10-hour flight, just raw dog, this whole 10-hour flight, no AirPods, no neck pillow, no reading materials and jeans. If I remember the funniest thing, I would call the air marshals. Right. That's crazy. Something's wrong. No bad.

He's an air marshal. That's an air marshal. No air marshal. Pods, no bag. I learned that in Bridesmaids. Okay. So anyways, we just go back from Texas. Thank you guys for coming out to the shows in Austin and Dallas. They were amazing. Really, really always have such a good time there. And we were able to record a podcast while we were in Austin, my dream, Tom Segura, my favorite comedian of all time. Oh my God. Yeah. Just really love him so much. So look for us on your mom's house.

And. Why does it like that? And. And, y'all. Because we just go back. from Dallas. It's October. Ashley, oh my God. Are you ready? Oh my gosh. You guys. I'm getting meet either my next business partner or the love of my life. What the fuck? Tussol who spit her drink out. What was that? Because I met you in October. I would never. I would never go to a business than another person. Do you remember that guy who once pitched me on doing a podcast? The guy you were in love with? Yeah, that guy. He was really trying to get in there. I did not like it. Yeah, but it was

like delusional. It was like so crazy. And he like pitched me on his podcast and I was like, what would it be about? And he's like, you know, we'll just like talk about like life and dating and like it'll be kind of funny. And I was like so like the podcast I already do. That's who you want. And I just like never followed up. And he sent me this like long message to be like, it's really rude. You like ignored my pitch. And I was like, you didn't think I took that seriously. Right. No one would take that seriously. Yeah. You saw right through it. I, I hated that so much because at that point you were like kind of out on him, but you were like so into him for a moment. And I'm not saying that you wouldn't have seen through it then, but it worried me for a second.

And that is like a worry that someone will try to take advantage or something. You know, and like you dated somebody who was in comedy, who did have a podcast and we certainly didn't feel like that at all. You know what I mean? And that's just like, I think you and I again would see right through it and not go down that road. But of course, people we date and needs to be like, I have nothing to gain from what you do for a living.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't romantic, but you and Francis Ellis, who is a comedian, you guys ran a show together in New York and worked together for yours and he has a podcast and you also have a podcast of May. And there is always like a moment, like, watching you on stage with somebody else, I was like, I feel like such a cock. I hate this. But Francis, like, wanted no part of like what we had together and he was like such a funny example, Francis. Yeah. Also, you didn't have feelings for me. I really had feelings for that guy.

That's what I'm saying. Like, you can get a little blinded. Yeah. where you're like, I just want to involve, like, this guy I'm in love with. Like, I just, I want no part of it. I am with somebody that has nothing to do with anything we do. His career path could not be more opposite. I love that.

That guy lived next door to Francis. Yeah. They lived in the same street. But anyways, yeah, we got through it. So it is October. It is my big special month. Everybody who I have pretty much mostly dated seriously, I've met in October or broken up with in October.

So it's my month. Yes. I'm really excited. As this episode comes out, I will be going to, Delaware this coming weekend for my nephew Jay's first birthday. Can you believe it? I love him. October. He's perfect. Yes. Yes, Jay was born in October, you guys. Sparkle's birthday this month. And I met him then. Everything was good. I met you. Jay's birthday is the eighth. You and I met on the ninth. I wanted him to be born on our anniversary so badly. But it's like one day. But I just can't even believe it.

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So that is all available at vibes only.com and of course our Instagram vibes only. You can follow. We'll do fun giveaways and things like that. Always good new content on there. And that's it. Check it out. So speaking of Pussies, we have a birth control episode today with

Dr. Jolene Brighton who came so highly requested and when we mentioned that we were going to do a birth control episode. If you've been following along on my journey or if you're new around here, I'll just kind of briefly recap that I went off birth control end of April. And I'll kind of share what I've been going through. And my latest update, which is that Rain and I are both IUD girlies now. Yes, we are.

I got an IUD. But I figured you would want to talk about you at first and like what your story is, birth control-wise, if people are new around here. Oh, yeah. So I've been on birth control just some type of contraceptive since I was probably like 15 or 16, I started going to Planned Parenthood, like way back in high school. And I was on, like, ortho-tricycline low, I think. The pill, I had mixed. It was fine. I mean, it did the job, but I started to have some pretty bad, like, reactions emotionally to it in my early 20s, and I was crying all the time

and being hysterical. So I went off of it, and I've tried different things in the meantime, but I had an IUD put in about two and a half years ago by Mirosha, who was on our show. She did a really fantastic episode with us about abortion. And it's the best contraceptive decision I've made for myself. My experience was that it was really easy going in. It was a really quick procedure. It was great. Ashley and I both are really lucky to have her as a doctor because she asked all the questions. And her and I went back and forth about do I want the copper or the hormonal? Typically with the hormonal you stop getting your period. Well, not all of them. I actually can speak to it a little more. But I had been off birth control for about four years. And I was mostly using the pullout method

and condoms. So I chose to not go back on hormones because I just had been off. of them for so many years. My experience was it went in. It was pretty painless for me. I know that's not most people's experiences, but a little bit of blood. My period was definitely heavier for a few months, but it's been in there since then, and I love it. It's wonderful. And I love just having sex. I don't really have to like think about it. You can just fill me up with loads of calm and I don't have to think twice about it. Yeah. But that's my story. I'm really happy with it. I've never had any complications whatsoever. I get a period every month. It's really regular and normal. And it's been great for me. So that's my experience. I'm really super

thrilled with my decision. Yeah. So I went off the pill after being on it forever. Ocella, Yasmin was the virgin name, but I was on Ocela for so many years. I mean, there was one time when I went off of it for a year. This was in like 2014. So I was like 30, 31 and had gone up for a year. It was just like I'm not having like regular sex or I didn't have a partner and I don't know. I just decided to. And everything was fine. And then when I got back on it because I started dating my previous X, I got back on it and it was really tough for me. Like it was a really tough month. Like I was like certain I was pregnant because now I'm having sex with this guy even though we were like being safe. But I was like my breast hurt to the touch. I just felt like couldn't sleep. I was so emotional. It was like a disaster. Like I was like this is crazy. You know? And I went to the gyno and she was just like, you know, your body changes. You're getting older. Like going back on it has just really affected you. And so from then on I was like I never want to do that again. You know, like even so many years of like being single, not. And not having a ton of sex or whatever it was, I still was like, I'm just going to hold strong and knock it off of it because I never want to deal with going on it again. And I kind of was of this,

like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality. And I was like, I love the pill. And I just want to be on it forever. I totally stopped getting periods. Like last fall, I made the decision, like, I'm done dealing with periods. I was taking my pills all the way straight through. And I was just like, I couldn't be more on the pill. Like, I'm not even doing the like placebo pills. You know, I'm going straight through and not having periods. And then I don't know. know, something got into me and I kind of fucked up my birth control where like I did get a period and this was back in the spring again. And I don't know. I just was like maybe I want to see what it's like, you know? And we had done this episode with Dr. Sarah Hill. And I was like so scared to go off

of it for some reason. Like I was going to have all these negative effects. So I crowdsourced on Instagram and I've talked about this on the podcast before, but crowdsource on Instagram, positive experiences of women who have gone off the pill. And it was overwhelming. And again, I've shared this before. I don't want to be repetitive. But I did just ask, for the positive things. I know there's negative effects as well, but I don't know. People had like amazing stories to share and, you know, of them just being happier, their mood being improved and seeing the world in color to even get kind of like cheesy with it and their sex drive up and they're feeling more lubricated and all these amazing things. So I was like, I'm just going to try it.

And it was like the best thing that ever happened. And that was back in April. And it was incredible for me. I felt great. I felt lighter. I'd lost a couple pounds. I had so much more energy. My Peloton score skyrocketed. Like everything was on point. And I'm like, I never want to do this again. But I obviously started dating somebody and we're having sex. And I mean, it's been a journey. What? We're having that. Obviously, we're having sex. And, you know, actually has sex to you guys. It's been it. It's been a journey of what to do, you know, and how to manage it and pregnancy prevention, all these things. And so I just started to do a lot of research. I talked to Dr. Mira, Shaw, again, you know, we just are in communication with her. And she's so wonderful. And we

cannot recommend her episode enough and also her book, which is called You're the Only One One I've Told. It's an incredible book about abortion. You guys should read it. I couldn't put it down. So check that out. You can get that wherever you get your books. And I don't know. I mean, I did a lot of research too. And the IUD is very different in how you, how is in your body in the first place. You're not ingesting it. It's not going through your body. It stays in your uterus. And it's, you know, a tenth of the hormones that the pill is. And it's just progestins only. So it's just synthetic progesterone. It's not estrogen. And, and it's not estrogen. And, And it acts a little differently.

And these are the hormonal ones. This is Morena, Lilletta, Kylina, and Skyla. Skyla's a little dicey. People aren't really doing that one right now. But, you know, it's like, we know the Morena, the Leletta, and the Kyelina. And those are the hormonal ones.

And then Raina has the Pereygard, which is the copper one. And again, I was like, I don't want to put hormones back in my body. I've been having this incredible experience. But, like, I need to figure something out. And I really don't want to do the copper. I mean, I don't know.

You did deal with heavy bleeding for three months. Like, you had a story that you had to leave a movie theater. you were bleeding so hard. Like, and your periods, you just had a really bad one in London. Like, you do have like heavier periods. And that's typical of the copper is like heavier and longer periods. And I don't have bad periods,

but I'm like, I don't want to deal with it at all. I don't want to do this. And maybe I could not get a period, which with Morena, a lot of people stop having their period altogether. My friends that have the marina don't have periods. And I was like,

that could be a benefit. And, you know, I just did a ton of research and was like, if I feel like the slightest bit different, so be it. If I'm not having a period, and then I am able to be at ease in terms of not getting pregnant and letting my partner come inside me and all these things.

And I just kind of wait it for myself. And I did talk to my doctor. Dr. Mir recommended another doctor who works at Planned Parenthood here actually in Pasadena. I wanted to go to him. I want to go to who she recommends. I want to go to people that put in IUDs, thousands of them, you know, like they're the pros. And so I went to this doctor, Dr. Noah and at Planned Parenthood, Pasadena.

And he did it and he was incredible. And I took it pretty well. You do hear like bad stories, but you do. didn't have a problem with it. Like, you do feel a pinch. You know, it doesn't feel pleasant, but it's so quick. And then it's over with. And, you know, I took some ibuprofen, but I was fine. I had minimal cramping the day of a little bit of spotting and that's been it. Yep. That's been it. And that's not everybody's story. And, you know, I had a friend that had so much cramping. It was really bad for her for days on end. But, you know, everybody's different and what they deal with. And

spotting, bleeding, cramping, all those things. I am not experiencing that. But I talked to him about it. And he was like, the Morena typically is not going to affect your sex drive as much. Like the pill in the way that it like goes in your body and your liver and your hemoglobin and all those kind of things. Like that's typically not what we see. Like that really shouldn't change. And I was like, great. He was like, you might get a little of the other stuff. Your mood might shift a little bit. Like maybe you'll feel some bloating here and there. Like, but it should be more minimal, much more minimal than the pill. And again, all these things are just what I weighed in the pros and cons because again, I just feel like there's no perfect solution. If you really don't want to risk it.

I didn't mind having the longer periods. I did not want to put hormones in H. just because I've been off it for so long. Absolutely. It was sort of like a short-term pain for long-term gain. Yeah. Like, yeah, my period was crazy heavy for three months. But, I mean, it was two and a half years. I guess who cares, you know?

Yeah. And it was so quick and easy, and it just allowed me to just get filled up like a gas tank. So I really love it. It's been a great decision for me. Yeah. And I think the Morena is the one that can stop your period. There's ones that have a little less hormone,

but they may not stop your period. I believe that's the Kyliena. So, again, I just really, I talked to a lot of people. I did a lot of research and I was like, I think that I want to try this. And again, if I feel differently, I'll take it out and maybe I would try the copper. Like, I just felt like this is what was going to work best for me. And I cannot give advice on this, like, because we're all so different. Everybody reacts to this stuff so differently.

But I feel like if you're on the pill and you want to explore other options, like hot take, but an IUD and I wish I would have done it earlier. You know, like the stories and the personal experience of the pill, I'm just, I'm not about it. I think you hear a lot of horror stories about the IUD. D2. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I don't want to shit on it either. And a lot of people need to be on it for different reasons. So again, we don't have any judgment. There's no perfect decision. I mean, Mira even told me her own horror stories about it. And we have friends that have had terrible experiences with everything. You know, I had a terrible experience with the ring. I really, really reacted badly to it. And I mean, just being a woman is hard. A man could never.

Yeah. I know. And it's so funny because, like, you guys know at this point what an idea is what it looks like and it goes up in you and it like is a T-shaped. and then there's these strings, and we were talking about it with Tessa. And I was saying how my doctor was like, I like to keep him a little longer and tuck him behind your cervix. I was like, sure, go for it, whatever you're going to do. I don't know what that means? What do you mean?

tuck it? I'm so confused. Like, can't a big dick just knock the tuck out? Right? They say that some people can feel it on their penis, but I don't know. I slept with one person since I got it in that was particularly enormous. I mean, he's the biggest dick I've ever been with. Like, I can barely take it.

And he said he felt it, but it wasn't like bad. I brought it up. I said, because the last time we had slept together, I did not have it in. So I said, do you feel the IUD? And he's like, yeah, I can feel it. But like, not enough to mention it. Yeah.

You know, and that guy's like a monster. He's probably talking about the strings. It's not like poking his dick. So anyway, we're talking about this with Tessa and I go. I said to Rain, I was like, Rainer, remember that girl emailed before? And so she ripped her own IUD out. And Tessa goes, that was me.

And I was like, no, wasn't. Like, there's no way that was her. I remember this email. Yes. This, anything about like, weird medical stuff really sticks out in my brain. It is a crazy email. And immediately I was like, I don't believe this.

And we pulled it up right away. Yes. And she didn't do it on purpose. We're not going to get into it because her dad listens. But it was an accidental type thing. But she did take it out. It's framed. She has it in a frame.

Tessa, your email about it was so funny. The way you wrote the email was so funny. And again, this is before she worked for us. And I think you emailed us. We'll have Tessa on guys eventually. Don't worry. You'll hear her whole story. But she emailed us because she was interested in working for us.

And this email came in one of them. month later. And did you say you were like, did that ruin my chances? A week apart. She applied for the job at hello at girls got to eat. And she sent the other story to stories of girls got to eat thinking a different person reads those email addresses. Yeah. So her first email to us came in February of 2022. And then that would make sense. We did that tour in San Francisco because she was at the San Francisco show. So yeah, listen. I also love Tess's persistence and we'll talk about this in depth. but she emailed us for the first time in February

and she got the job the next December. So it was 10 months. It was a long game, but she did it. I always encourage people to just apply for jobs that they want. I did that. Yeah, you know that too. When I was in my early 20s, just like, even if the position's not available,

just send the email and you never know that's how I got the job working for Danny Meyer was I was like really persistent. And Tessa did that too and I admire it. And that's just... That's just so funny that she's emailing, and she's interested in working for us. Then she's like following up like in the normal amount of time,

but in between there is like, by the way, I pulled my ID out. That's a really interesting professional decision, Tessa. She had to share. And the email was so funny and like comedically written. But we didn't know that it was her. Yeah, you weren't like, buzz, buzz, it's me. I just applied last week. We just had the funniest laugh about it when she was like, that was me.

I was like, oh my God, you're an icon. That is so funny. Don't pull your IDs out, guys. You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to get them removed by your doctor. Now, I have so many girlfriends. I've never heard of such a thing. Yeah.

Tessa has no pain nerve endings. I also just wanted to take a moment to hype Planned Parenthood, you know? Like I had such a pleasant experience there. You know, we obviously support Planned Parenthood and we donate, we do all the things. And I didn't have to go all the way up there, but I was like, I want to go there to this. And, you know, I think there's something to be said for someone that does IUDs a lot, you know, like you see more complications with not all the time, of course, but with primary care doctors who aren't doing thousands of them, doing them day in and day out.

And so I really wanted someone that was like such an expert. I mean, it was 10 seconds. I was like, is it in? I told you that was my experience. And all these years, you've been like, your experience isn't the same. And I was like, see, this is the same thing. 10 seconds, really quick, in and out. You just said you could barely feel it, which I barely felt it, right?

I definitely felt something, but it wasn't so painful. I think that you and I have pretty good pain tolerances. And I will say this, if you can get a fucking bikini wax, you can get an IUD. Truly, I think it's more painful. I think the ripping of the hair, waxing or sugaring in the, inside of that labia, that most painful strip is five times more painful than that IUD. For me personally, it's the worst thing I've ever felt. If you're getting waxed, you can get an IUD. Trust me, girls. Also, it's over and over and over again. I would rather have the biggest

Harris Bush on the planet. I don't ever want to do it again. Right. Like, I would even take 10 times more, quote unquote, pain of that IUD for that short of time than 10 minutes of hair being ripped out of my pussy. I am panting. I'm dripping in sweat. My blood pressure is through the No man is worth that. I don't care. Well, I'm looking into laser. We are both looking into laser. I can't do it. It's too stressful for me.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I love that. We have a lot of representation. We have the copper, the hormonal, like, and I'll keep you guys updated. I just, I think this is going to work for me, and I think I'll be good to go and just be filled up with cum.

Yes. Just like a gas tank. Okay. Let's get into this discussion with Dr. Brighton. Yes. Okay, guys. we have a very special guest today. We are thrilled that she is here. She is a hormone expert, nutrition scientist, and thought leader in women's medicine. She is board certified in that naturopathic

endocrinology and a certified sex counselor. She is an international speaker, clinical educator, and author of Is This Normal, a Not-Judgmental guide to creating hormone balance, eliminating unwanted symptoms, and building the sexual desire you crave. Please welcome to the show, Dr. Jolene Brighton. Hello. Thanks for having me here. I'm so excited. We are so happy to have you. Our audience is so excited. We've talked about you with a few other guests.

Other guests have highly recommended you, and then people have just been begging for this. Awesome. There's a lot to live up to, so we're about to do this thing right. Well, we were reading through your book, and we're going to encourage people to buy it. There's so many topics.

I was like, Ashley, we could do this and this and this. I mean, is this normal is the perfect title of a book? Because you talk about it, is my cycle normal, is the amount of bleeding I'm doing normal. It's the smell normal. It's my desire normal. But the hormone conversation and specifically hormonal birth control was just like fascinating in your book. So you're such a wealth of information.

That is so true. Like I was dealing with something recently and we have another doctor friend, Dr. Mirosha, and I'm just like the amount of times I've said like, is this normal? Yeah, yeah. The question we're always asking all the time. So yeah. Well, and then yes, one, it's always what I'm being asked. But two is that there's so much we're told is normal. Like you were born with ovaries. So it's supposed to suck. Like emotional roller coasters check. Painful periods. Definitely bleeding through all of your clothing. Yeah, that's just the way it is. And it's not in fact normal. Thank you. Because I do feel like there's a line where you're like, okay, yes, maybe it's this amount of bleeding or this and that, but you're like, this, I don't feel right. Like something is

wrong. I think that we also just have this instinct that something is not right. It definitely falls in the category of normalcy. These things can happen based on whatever the circumstances are. But you're like, no, no, no. Something's really wrong here. Yeah. Well, right there. tune in to your normal, tune in to your intuition, because, so you brought up heavy bleeding. It wasn't until this year, literally 2023, that we actually got a study measuring tampons and bleeding with blood. Oh. Before then, it's all been like saline in water. And anybody who bleeds knows that it's chunky sometimes.

There's clots. There's different things going on. You're shedding uterine lining. And so that's the other thing that whenever doctors, people are telling you things are normal, And it's based on, like, research we have. We really have to question those things. Because now that this study's come out, it's like, how many women have fallen through the cracks having heavy bleeding,

but we've actually missed it because it was quantified incorrectly because you are not the ocean, friend. You are a human and you don't bleed saline. Okay, we've, like jumped right into it. I love it. I feel like, you know, some of this is like what's being alive and what's an actual problem. Yeah.

Yeah. And, I mean, my period, for example, like, my cycle has always been between, I get my period every four to six weeks. And that's a huge range, that two weeks, an extra 14 days. And everybody's always brushed it off with me. Like, that's just normal. It's fine. But if I was really trying to get pregnant and track my period and my ovulation,

like an extra 14 days in between periods between what is, quote, unquote, expected normal and what's happening to me, which could be a six-week cycle, that doesn't seem normal if I'm trying to conceive. Yeah. You know? Well, it's funny that you just framed it if you're trying to conceive. And that is what so much of medicine has really conditioned us, too. is it's like, you go to the doctor, you've got like lady part problems, period problems,

over your problems, hormone problems, right? Whatever bucket your doctor wants to put it in. But it's all the same solution, right? Because it's a, do you want a baby? Yes. Oh my God, work it up. Get you referred. Make sure that you can get knocked up when you're good and ready.

You don't want a baby. You know what? Here's the pill. Right. Maybe I just want to know when I'm getting my period. Maybe I don't want it to be like, surprise, bitch. You're wearing white shorts today. Right.

I mean you just want to wear white shorts and never have a kid. She literally is. Okay, well, can we back up a little bit and just hear a little bit about you? Oh, yeah, you want to talk about me? Yeah. Just a little bit. Just to kind of hear your story and why you're so passionate about this. Okay, so I started off studying nutrition science. So I have a degree in chemistry, a degree in nutrition science. Did my research actually in sarcopenic obesity. So my nutrition research was in that and then found naturopathic medicine was going to go get my PhD and do nutrition research. But we're realize that like I can do all this research but doctors don't read it and it and it takes forever to

like get a doctor to change their practice. And so I'm like, well, I don't I just be that doctor. And so that's when I found naturopathic medicine. I was like, oh, okay, if I'm not going to be a PhD, I'm going to go become a medical doctor or a DO. And as I was looking into it, I'm like, they don't know anything about nutrition. They have no nutrition education. There's no lifestyle education. There's none of this foundational stuff that keeps people out of the doctor's office. And so I went the route of natural medicine with the intention of focusing on gut health and specializing there. And then I really had this epiphany sitting in class where my guy in instructor at the time, she was just so good about being like, you know, we are with our patients.

Like they are in charge. And it was such a different mindset. And I just had this epiphany of like, God, women's medicine is always done to them, not with them. It is like, respect the white coat, bow down to the white coat, don't question the white coat. you can't possibly know your body and take this medication and be quiet kind of mindset. That was my experience. There's almost everybody who I talked to his experience at some point with one doctor or another. So in that, I was like, I think I need to go into women's medicine and realizing my background

in chemistry and how much I love it, steroid pathways and hormones, they just click for me. It's the way my brain works. And I was like, yeah, I should do. Like people were like, this is so complicated. And my brain's like, this is so easy. Like, how can you not just see the pathway going on? And I was like, oh, yeah, this is what my brain's meant to do. Let's do this thing.

So that's what made me pursue the path I did. And then after working with so many patients and realizing that my training and really nobody who has a big D little R in front of their name gets any sex education training aside from, like, the same stuff you get in high school, except we know how to treat your STIs. And we can. I can prescribe those antibiotics. But, like, we don't actually understand sex from the place. pleasure perspective. And that's what I pursued my sexual counseling certificate. So I'm certified

sexual counselor as well. It helps me navigate a lot of things, but it also helps me recognize when to refer faster and get them to like a psychologist or, you know, somebody who is a mental health professional in sex that can help support them if we need that as well. We love to know what makes you passionate about this stuff because we both are. Ashley and I have our own birth control journeys and hormonal journeys. And sexual journeys too. I mean like, yeah, talking about pleasure as supposed to just like the technical aspect of sex. Yeah, yeah. It's so important.

Yeah, well, let me ask you guys. What do you remember from sex ed? I don't think we even really have it. I remember this kid one time from the back of the class. I always joke that he was one of those kids that would like flip his eyelids up. Just like a real, you know, mess of it. That still creeps me out. And I remember being in health class and he asked what 69 was.

He heard it on the bus that morning. Yeah. And the teacher like blacked out. You know, and I blacked out because I was like, sex was great. Like it was in middle school. Like, you know, so I definitely don't. remember much. But we did have this one thing, and it was called lunchtime learning, and it was in

high school, and it was like once a week, and you would go and get free pizza. And we weren't for the free pizza, but it was also like... This is like, yes. Right. But that's when like the real stuff went on. Like, that's when we really would talk about like birth control and different things that really applied to... I don't know if it was just women only. I don't remember who taught it. If it was a gynaecologist, it would come in. But like, I actually learned a lot more in this like optional thing that we were going to for the pizza and that was like me and my girlfriends would go and I think I actually came away

with some stuff that I didn't get in traditional. If there was anything available, it was optional. I didn't grow up in like a sex negative community. I grew up in a pretty liberal forward-thinking household and my high school was sort of like that, but I don't remember any sex education. My home was like really sex positive. My mom's a therapist.

She bought me your body yourself. I read a review of your book and it said like, this is your body yourself for like the modern generation. I was like, that book would change my whole life growing up. And Planned Parenthood was available. I knew where it was. But I don't think anybody really talked to me about it. I think people were just like, if you want to talk about it, I'm here.

Yeah, which is tricky because then that puts it on you to know. Like, you don't know what you don't know. And so you don't know what to ask. Usually what the answer I get is there was a condom in a banana. A penis goes in a vagina. Sex is scary because you get pregnant or you get STIs. And that's like a lot of the conversation that's had in the United States. And it's interesting because, as I talk about and is this normal, if you look at Germany and the Netherlands as well, they change their sex education.

Germany requires it. You can't opt out like you can in the United States. They now have young adults. So they have this whole generation that has now become adults that have gone through this program is all about like consent and pleasure. Two key things I think that are missing from all of our education, all of our conversations. And with that, they have found that the age that sex begins is much older, that when people, you ask them, like, how was it the first time? They're like, it was fun. It was a good time. You ask people in the United States, and they're usually like, oh, cringe, like, it was bad.

I felt coerced. I felt pressure. Like, it wasn't good. These countries have lower rates of STIs, of team pregnancies. And it's funny because people will be like, well, look at the Netherlands. They're so small. I'm like, they correct for the population, okay? Right, right, right.

Yeah. But I think when we start talking about sex, that it gets really, like, scary to think, like, what do we teach kids? What do we not teach? Like, when's the right? Like, you ask questions. I mean, I do a lot of lead stuff with my son who's here.

You're the first person to ever bring their son to a recording, and I love it. Yeah. Well, he's in the house. Tessa's babysitting. Yeah, he's hanging out, Tessa. He's so, he's so cute. And he's, well, thank you. My genetics.

But, you know, I was just mentioning to him, he's like, yeah, you're going to talk about weird and gross stuff. I was like, yeah, someone's going to be weird and gross. I'm going to talk about sex. And he's like, yeah, I don't want to talk. I don't want to hear about that. But I'm like really just open. Well, I think it's good that you talk to him about that

because I remember, you know, looking back to my first birth control experience, I went to plan parenthood. I was having sex in high school and they prescribed something for me. And they were wonderful and really helpful to me and of course, obtaining that to not get pregnant. But I never heard the word hormones. I don't recall a discussion about like, well, this could be good for you if you react to hormones this way.

And you wrote this thing in the book. I'm just going to read. a sentence to you from you, but no one ever said anything like this to me. From your interest in sex to lubrication, to even wanting to be around your partner, the cyclical nature of your hormones has a lot of influence on not just your love life, but your whole life. No one said anything to be about hormones or what was in the birth control pill. And I was just like, I'll just take this. Yeah. I'm not blaming them by the way. I never had. I never want to blame parenthood. Right. I mean, that's the thing you go into Planned Parenthood. Have you not get pregnant? Yeah, you're like, I don't

want to get pregnant and they're like, here's the solution for that. And then they should give you an informed consent of them. I'm heavily grateful. to them. I don't want to be like, yeah, I think anyone who's ever used Planned Parenthood, which I leaned on them very heavily through my youth, like is really grateful for Planned Parenthood. Whenever people are like, we don't need Planned Parenthood, like just don't be irresponsible.

Like they say such dumb stuff. It comes out of their mouth. I'm like, do you hear the words you're saying? And also, you don't understand that like I have seen patients who are like, I went to Planned Parenthood. I couldn't afford a Papp. I got a Papp. I got cervical cancer. Like things got caught.

Thank you, Planned Parenthood. Like even, you know, some areas, like doing breast screening, like different things that I'm like, they do so much more. And in a country where we have such a problem with access to medicine, insurance, like all of it, it's just a mess. Like, Planned Parenthood is so vital to women's health. And why is it under attack? Because it's a women's health primarily clinic, right?

Yeah. If it was like, you know, if it was handing out Viagra friends, like everybody would be like, fund that Planned Parenthood, save the penis. Yeah. I also just want to go back and answer your question about like the sex stuff because I'm sitting here thinking, like, where did I learn of this? A lot of it was just like from Cosmo. Oh, yeah.

Like, I was a huge magazine person. And I think like I was reading stuff that was probably a little older for me at the time. But like then those days, we've had even the editor of Cosmo and like they were ahead of their time to an extent. But also a lot of it was just about men's pleasure. God, I was going to ask you. Because that is what sex ed in the United States is very male centered. Yeah. Probably now.

I don't know. We know as much. But, you know, back in the day, it was all about like. how to give the best hand job, the best blow job, how to please your man, how to like, you know, 10 ways to spice it up for your man. And I was like, where is the clit talk? Like, why was that never in Cosmo of like 10 ways to make sure you get more pleasure? Yeah. Like how to support your lubrication. Like all of these things that like, I mean, I struggled with in my 20s. Part of that was being on birth control. And probably one of the

worst things I did for my sex life, but best thing I did for my career. So it's a tradeoff. Yeah. But it's only recently that we have this conversation where like we're talking about the clitters. We're talking about female pleasure. But then I feel like the pendulum has swung so far that it's like, you have to be orgasming all the time. And then you're like, oh God, what if I'm not? Yeah. And I'm like, orgasms are fun. But as I point out in the book, the research we do have shows that when you ask people, like, tell me about your best sexual experience of your life. And why was it so good? The orgasm's not at top of the list. It's empathy. It's intimacy. It's connection. It's like the way you felt. You know, there's not saying, like, people always remember the way you made the.

feel and orgasms feel really good, but they are so finite in the experience of that sexual moment that we put so much emphasis on it, rightly so. It has so many health benefits, and yet at the same time, if you're not orgasming every time, you're not broken. A hundred percent. And I mean, I love this one clip. You said you just did Lovers and Friends, she and Budram's podcast. And this clip she had on of like these women were talking about how you can have really good sex without orgasm, you know, and I just, I love to orgasm, of course. I know, sometimes it's just like, you'd have to remind yourself, like, that was just really fun. I never thought about it. I felt really connected to my partner, you know, and I even,

like, I sent him the clip, too, because we have orgasms all the fucking time, we know what we're doing, but it's kind of like, I always want guys to think that, too, that it just didn't mean you didn't do a good job or something, you know, it's just like, I love the conversation. Like, that sex was so fun. We'd all these different positions. I felt really connected, like, this and that. The dirty talk was crazy. Yeah. in different rooms. I just didn't. It didn't happen that time.

Well, like, if I have more than two drinks, I'm just never going to come. Oh, yeah. I'm never going to get there. But, like, that doesn't mean I don't love having sex when I'm drinking. Yeah. And being crazy and saying wild-ass shit. Yeah.

And it's still, like, as long as I can masturbate to a sexual experience later, it was a good sexual experience for me. Cheers to that. I love that you say that, though. I bring up in the book. So we're talking about, like, several of my books today, but, like, is this normal is the one where I say the whiskey vagina? So people will always say, they say the whiskey dick and I'm like, okay, this is true.

But it happens for tequila vagina. Well, I like that. I like, yeah, I mean, tequila, whiskey, it depends on where you're at in the world, right? It could be sangria, sangria chochia. Like, I'm not a natural wine vagina actually. Oh, my God. Wine vagina. Oh my God.

But whiskey vagina is a thing? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So as you were saying, like, you're not going to have an orgasm. So you know how like you drink and then you're like, like you shouldn't drive because your nervous system is like numbed out, delayed, your reaction time. Well, all of your nerves are being affected and then the clitoris is full of nerves.

So that's one. Two, things can dry up. So a lot of people like to drink and have sex because sex is like embarrassing and gross and icky and weird noises and all kinds of stuff can happen, right? And that's like part of the fun. And like it's part of the vulnerability of being with that person. But then people will be like, well, something's wrong with me because I'm so dry. Yes, it's hard to.

self-lubricate when you have drank too much. And then people are like, oh, sometimes they have great sex when they've been drinking. And I'm like, tell me about the lube situation. They're like, I didn't even think about it. I just got the lube. I wasn't worried about it. I'm like, yeah.

You're like, I need lube and I'm not going to worry about like, oh, is something wrong with me because I can't self-lubricate. And you literally can't, like, depending on how many drinks you had, you can't be in your head as much. Right. I just want to spit on that dick and get to town. Oh, my God. But that, like, I just want people to know that, like, if you drink,

And then it's like I can't have an orgasm. I can't self lubricate. Like I'm struggling. You're normal. Just about everybody does. I have to say, since getting off birth control, the lubrication is just more than enough. And we'll transition this into the conversation about that. But it's interesting because, yes, when I used to be on the pill and would be any amount of

drunk drinks, whatever, it was like just the desert down there. And it's not a problem at all. I kind of heard that from a lot of other women who got at the pill as well. And I'm just like, this is crazy. I'm just wet all the time. Is it supposed to be like juicy down there? Like, what is going on? While you're on the pill, some women can experience vaginal dryness.

They can have pain with sex. Maybe it's lubrication or maybe they're experiencing vaginismis, yeast vaginitis. These things are associated with pill use. We know that in some women, okay, what I'm going to say is not true for everyone. And you might be like, I love my pill. Everything is great. Good. Do you?

Keep going. But otherwise, if you are struggling, it isn't. important to know that you can experience difficulty orgasming, the tissue can start shrinking, the clitoral tissue may start shrinking. There can be adverse changes. And that may mean you need to switch your pill formulation and get on a different formula or you need to get on a different form of birth control. But it is the lamest part of birth control is like you get on it and you're like, sign me up. I can have sex now. I don't have to worry about it. Like inhibition about like, you know, unintended pregnancy gone.

And then your vagina's like, no, no, we're not doing this now. And you're like, what? And then there's the libido aspect. Like your desire for sex can tank in some women as well. I think our audience is really curious about what is actually going on. And we've talked about this with Dr. Sarah Hills. We don't want to be like too repetitive in terms of the whole cycle. But just hormonally.

Like we want like a broad overview of what the pill does, you know, and why it's so different when you get off of it. And that's not to say that everybody has a great experience getting off of it too. You know, I mean, again, I got so many responses when I asked people this question. And some people got off of it and it was negative for them. So we just kind of want to discuss that. So let me first say, Dr. Sarah Hill, love her, big fan. Her book is all about the brain.

So get into the brain, get into like the cortisol piece. And she talks a lot about her experience of coming off the pill. My book Beyond the Pill. We're going to talk about brain. We're going to go through the entire body as well. and they really complement each other for that reason. Yeah. And so the pill works at the brain level.

That's not all it's doing. It's not just shutting down ovulation. And, you know, in addition, in shutting down, you know, ovulation, what is doing, the ovaries, is it also lowers testosterone. So some people start to notice a change in their muscle mass, change in motivation, change in energy. That can be related.

Nutrient depletions. We've known this since the 70s. And yet, when we go back to the beginning of this episode, doctors are not trained in nutrition. So they're like, if you get scurvy, then we've got a problem. And you're like, I'm not a pirate. Okay, sir, I'm not going to get scurvy. But, you know, vitamin C, vitamin E, B vitamins, like folate.

Like, if you do get pregnant, like you need to have folate on board. Minerals like magnesium, selenium, zinc, all of these things can be depleted while you're on hormonal birth control. And it is not enough to tell you just eat a good diet. Because people don't know what that is. Like, we don't teach that in school. And that's why I'm beyond the pill. I'm like I have all these recipes, all these meal plans. And then I talk about supplementation as well to keep those nutrient stores up.

Because one of the ways that the pill may be impacting your mood, and I'm walking a line here because it's going to be so hard to ever get a study to show that it causes mood changes because everything can affect your mood. But there are the nutrient depletions that take place. There's the possibility of altered tryptophan metabolism. that is how your brain takes tryptophan amino acid and makes serotonin and then ultimately melatonin, which can be sleep disturbance. Not to mention that's an antioxidant that protects your ovaries as well.

But there's also this inflammatory component to the pill. So some women get on the pill and we can measure C-reactive protein. It's a marker of inflammation. See their inflammation goes up. When inflammation goes up, we will make more neurotoxic chemicals in our brain than neuroprotective chemicals. And that's not to say like being on the pill is destroying your brain, but there is altering things enough. And that CRP can also impact the rest of the tissues in your body. So if you're feeling more inflamed, we can see insulin resistance in some people starts to creep up.

And then there's the microbiome component. Some studies have linked it to being similar to antibiotics. And nobody does antibiotics for decades on end. But like I said, I did the pill for 10 years. And so it may be altering the microbiome as well. And so why I talk about all of these things is because if you know this going into it, as I outline and be on the pill, we can mitigate this. Like, we can be like be on a prenatal or multi-bed it and make sure that you're eating a diverse high-fiber diet, so like 25 grams of fiber a day.

Like we can take steps so that if you are on the pill, you fill your best. We minimize the side effects so you can be successful and not get pregnant. You said this more eloquently that I'm going to be able to, but you said, you know, it's hard to address these things because when we address one hormone change, it exacerbates a different hormone change. And if you increase the size of one thing, you could be decreasing the size of another hormone in your body. So it is hard to address all these things, but it might not just be this one thing of like, well, just sleep more. We'll just get more fiber. I wish that it was always, I mean, we all should be sleeping more and getting more restorative sleep for sure. But is not going to be the one thing

that fixes everything? No, but it's a good starting place. If you were like, I am not getting great sleep and you're like, just tell me one thing to do today. Get more sleep, drink more water. Like start with those things and then we can start building on that. But you're absolutely right to your point, well, you were quoting me. So well, of course, I'm going to say you're right. I'm biased here. But in that, if one hormone is out of balance and struggling, the others will follow. And it's because your body is trying to compensate. And when we end up in the doctor's office is when the body can no longer compensate anymore. So who do doctors? see, they see people who need doctors. They see people who are like these extremes. And that is

why I think so often you'll hear doctors say, everybody has PMS, it's normal. Yeah, like, maybe 90% of people have struggled with PMS in their life. But like, that doesn't mean it's normal. Like, I don't think the way we live in our society now is a normal way to exist as an animal. And yet, we act like it's crazy that our body starts expressing symptoms protesting being like, yeah, I don't like this. Like, don't do this anymore. Well, I want to talk about the sex drive stuff a lot and the libido and the lubrication. That's probably what came up in, you know, my Instagram research the most. And also for me personally. And so I think that's a big thing for people. And I got responses when I've been crowdsourcing

this of like, I'm attracted to a different type of person. I got off birth control and I'm not attracted to my husband anymore, you know, whatever. And we talked about that. So a little bit with Dr. Sarah Hill as well, like what you are physically attracted to. But, I'd love to just have you explain a little bit more of how the pill is linked to our sex drive. So we're going to start from the top with our menstrual cycle. The beginning of your menstrual cycle is actually ovulation, but we talk about it from the period because that's easier. We all know when we bleed.

Right, white shorts? We all know when we bleed. So that's day one of your menstrual cycle. Now, to get to that day one, your hormones have decreased, but already they're starting to rise. So by day two, that's when we might measure estrogen, day two, three, four, because estrogen is already on the rise. It is the predominant hormone of what is the follicular phase. That is from menstruation to ovulation, that's your follicular phase. And I break all this down and is this normal?

Really like break it down. So you understand it. But basically, estrogen is going to be rising during that phase. And it's going to be helping you get ready for ovulation and for potentially implantation of an embryo. your body, like whether or not you want a baby, your body is always geared to make a baby. And that is the whole goal of the menstrual cycle. So if you don't want a baby,

we just don't tell your body and we just roll with the goodness of all this. So estrogen's coming up. Now, so there's the ovulatory window that is also known in the research as the sexual phase of your cycle. So estrogen and testosterone are up. Estrogen is a big reason why we fantasize.

So you might find you're like in the grocery and you're like, ooh, look at that magazine color. I'm feeling a stirring in my nether regions. Okay. Thanks, estrogen. It's not just testosterone. So testosterone is important. However, estrogen is a key player as well.

So estrogen is also going to help raise the sugar in your vagina that feeds the good bacteria. So this is a very good thing because this helps with BV and yeast and keep everything in check. But it's also going to help with self lubricating. And it's going to start that cervical mucus. So this is going to be the wettest time of your cycle. And then testosterone's up and they're working together because they're like an egg's coming. Let's capture some sperm and we're going to get knocked up. So that is follicular phase ovulation.

Then after you ovulate within about 24 to 48 hours, you're going to start progesterone. Now progesterone was very, very tiny this whole time. And now it is the main hormone coming in in the ludial phase. Luteal phase is going to be at least 10 days and it might even be 14. We don't all have 28-day cycles and we don't all ovule. late on day 14. Like, no matter what an influencer tells you, friends, like, it is not that cut and dry.

So with that, in that ludial phase, as progesterone comes up, if it is right, it'll stimulate GABA in the brain, so you feel more calm, more chill, you sleep better, you're more in love with life, but as you edge towards your period, now progesterone and estrogen are declining, you no longer have your allies, and you can feel more stressed. Like lower energy, like, lower, yeah, you can feel a little bit fatigued, but also maybe more withdrawn, like, you're like, I want to do internal work. I don't want to go, like, out clubbing. Like, it's going to just feel like a different phase. The other thing to know about progesterum is that it will raise your body temperature. So that's how fertility awareness method, one of the things,

we're going to check body temperature. So maybe you're like, I can't work out as hard because I'm overheating. The other thing is that your caloric intake may go up because you may be burning 5 to 10% more calories. So you have a higher need during that time. And you also might find that you're craving a lot more because his progesterone comes up, estrogen takes a back seat, and serotonin follows estrogen. And so it takes a back seat. And so estrogen is a little bit of an appetite suppressant. So if you're like, I'm not the munchies come like my week before my period, that's your hormones. Okay, got it. Again, like read the book, have all this. But I just kind of explain it differently than maybe Sarah would have. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Let's do a different.

Yeah. But I'm saying if you're like, what was it all that? Like, you know, pick these books up and get more into it. Yeah, so you're on hormonal birth control and what's happening? Yeah, well, nothing. That's what's happening in the ovary. So if you're on hormonal birth control, you're not getting that rise in estrogen. You're not getting the rise in testosterone. And you never see progesterone. The entire time you were on it, because the only way to progesterone is through ovulation. What is in the pill is progestin. It hasn't been shown to have the same benefits as progesterone. It's very good at thickening your cervical mucus so that sperm shall not pass. It's like the Gandalf there. It's like, you shall not pass. Yeah. So it's got that benefit of pregnancy prevention. But in terms of, you know, helping you

in terms of the GABA receptor and less anxiety and better sleep, nah, it's probably not doing the same thing. Right. Yeah, exactly. And that was something that I like learned on our previous episode where I was like, oh, I'm not naturally cycling. I'm on birth control. This isn't actually PMS. It's like just a crash from being on the placebo pills. And that's why you hear people, not everybody's experience. my and I think a lot of other women of getting off the pill and then having a higher sex drive wanting to have sex more, being more lubricated

things like that. Yeah, absolutely. Because when you come off, ideally you go right back into cycling. It can take, if you started the pill and you had regular, predictable cycles, it could take you about three months before you cycle regularly again.

If you go longer than that, we should definitely investigate why. If they were irregular, so you had something like PCUS before you got on the pill. Or maybe you don't even know it because your doctor's just like, period problems check, put you on the pill,

don't work it up. Like, just go along your merry way. You got a pill now. If you come off, it could take you six months before you start cycling regularly. And then with the Depo-Provara shot, that could be 18 months.

So why do we need to know this? Because if you're using the pill to delay pregnancy, don't bank on you're just going to come off at 38 and you're going to get pregnant right away because there can be a delay in return to ovulation, but also you're 38 and that sucks.

I say this is a 42 year old that egg quality is definitely going down. So we just need to have these conversations so you have all the options on the table. Even if you were like knee at 25 who's like babies, no, never. And then at 30 it was like, ah, maybe babies. Yeah. And then I just have a question for you about IUDs. This is something that people really want to talk about. Raina is on the copper.

So we've got the copper and we've got the hormonal, which is progestant only. And both are the, like, if you want the highest efficacy rate, these are your option. So they've got, like, 99.9% in the comments, let us know if you got pregnant out on an IUD because there's always somebody. And that's where I'm like, it's very Jurassic Park.

Nature finds a way. Like, they will find a way. So with the IUDs, the copper IUD, if you have endometriosis, if you have a history of very heavy periods, if you had of adenomyosis or adenomyosis, you should not choose the copriety. It's going to be wicked.

It's going to be painful and it's going to be heavy. Yes, your period may get heavier. That may be long term or it may be short term. You have no hormones coming in. So it's always your hormones. You bathe in those. You go through your cycle. You feel yourself.

You were a great candidate for it. You didn't have like heavy periods or any of those things. But my cycle was also longer when I got on at the beginning. I would start spotting like a week ahead of time. There would be a little bit of blood. Before again, just three days and I'm done, which is like now, but yeah, a longer period as well. Yeah.

And so it's causing localized inflammation in the uterus, so we can see different changes with the uterine lining like that. With the hormonal IUD. So we've got several options now. Raina, Leletta, Skyla. Yeah. Look at you. You have been researching all of them.

Kailena, Skyla, and. Kylina. All the stripper names. Okay. Somebody said it because every time I'm just like, well, you're trying to insinuate here with these These names are hysterical. I mean, I've seen a lot of comedy bits about it.

I'm not trying to rip anybody off. But it's like, we all have these thoughts. I've never seen one. So I'm like, you're original to me. It's just, I think like there's a comedian Maddie Smith that I saw Doe where she was like, what are these funny? Because you hear them and you're like, what is it? They're like, what are these brats dolls or something?

Right? Like, yeah. Well, okay. What's the one in your arm called? So that's going to be the implant. And that's what it gets called. They get a strepurname. This bit I saw recently is that the copper is the paragonard.

and it's just like so extreme. I'm like, Lilletta, Skyla. And then the hair hurts. Sounds really masculine hair. Yeah. I'm like, man,

is there some psychology game going on to all of that? I've never thought about it because it is like the guard. It's like this copper tea in there being like, it's like the Mr. T of your uterate. I was like,

I pity the fool, a pity the sperm that tries to pass me. Okay, so let's go back to your hormones. You may lose your period with those hormones. So some women do not stop ovulating. Some women do. Some women, it's like two years later. They stop ovulating. They stop

having cycles. But it will thin the uterine lining. That's another role of progestin. And so then your periods can become lighter. So this is sometimes with like endometriosis, some women are like, I'm going to opt for that. I'm going to try that. Women who have very heavy uterine bleeding, they may opt for that to like help try to control the bleeding. Maybe they're in perimenopause. Things have gotten really heavy. They're also sexually active and they're like, I cannot predict when I'm going to ovulate because it's later Perry and I don't want to end up pregnant at 48. Like that's not in my life plan.

So you have those options. It's like, why does it got to be like this? You know, though? Like, why is it got to be like, we either got to take hormones and like roll the dice on how does that affect us or we've got to like have like clamps grabbing onto us and devices stuck inside of us or like, you know,

putting them in our arm? It's just like we've got to find a better way. And at this point, I think if who was carrying babies and whose career was getting interrupted and who's being put at higher risk of, like, death, because pregnancy is not, like, a neutral state. If it was men, if it was penis owners, like, I think we would see more iterations at this point.

But they're just like, it's the lady folk, let it go. Absolutely. I mean, men should be lining up to get vasectomy. Why should this be our problem all the time? I know. And we talked to Sarah Hill. I think we asked her, like, why isn't there, like, male birth control? And she talked about, like, it's hard to do the trials on men

because they can't go through what, like, the feelings of like being bloated and being moody. Like try to get men to sign up for hormonal birth control. Well, and here's the real talk about it is that there was a trial and it was abandoned. And I hate the pick me people who are like, well, these poor men, you know what they were going through? I'm like, oh my God. Women literally died on the island of Puerto Rico to bring you birth control. And you're like, these poor men, they were kind of sad.

But nowhere. Like in the same freaking quarter that they're like abandoned ship on the male birth control, they were like, let's bring out this new, like, progestin IUD, and women had way worse side effects, like much higher than the male birth control trial. But people were like, yeah, but we can't put men through that. We can't expect men to go through that. Look, I got sons. It's not advocating to have them medicated.

But what is the real reason? It's about ROI. Why continue a trial if you're not going to get buy-in? If you can't make your money back, why continue? And from a business perspective, totally, I get it. But from a doctor who wants lots of options and everybody to make their own choices, like let's bring some more male options. But vasectomy, like, that's an in-and-out procedure, nothing like an IUD.

And, yeah, you don't have any side effects. It's also crazy, though, because I don't even know that men are the more angry, more violent, like, in our whole society. So I'm like, they actually probably couldn't handle this. You know, like, we somehow women are out here mood swinging, PMS, and doing all this thing. And we're not like, you know, shooting up schools not to get too dark. with it, but I'm like, I don't know. So maybe we don't want them with all the mood swings. But I really like what you said about, like, just write this down, wherever it is, your notes

app, you know, dictate to Siri, whatever it is, and like go back and look at the predate it. I mentioned the fragility awareness method. As we were talking earlier that I'm like, I don't think I could have done that at 21. I think the pill was the best thing for me. I'm actually wearing my o'er ring right now. Yeah. So a lot of people like never recommended to me is though. What's interesting is I've wore the o'er ring, gosh, for like five years now. It's been a while. and I could just see it on my data. And I can fill my fertile cervical mucus coming on. I can feel where I'm just laying in bed.

I want to masturbate or I want my husband. I'm like, I'm going to ovulate for sure. Like this is coming. Like all the signs and symptoms are lining up right now. What's nice about ORA is they've now collaborated with natural cycles. Which is an app. Yes. I want some people to like know this that may not know.

So you have an app and then this ring works with it. And this is just kind of like how you track your own cycle, which even people don't know. No fertility awareness is just tracking your own body. So this is going to get my basal body temperature, but you can't go on basal body temperature alone. It is higher efficacy when you have the basal body temperature, but you must also pay attention to your symptoms.

And then when you are in the fertile window, which is your egg lives 24 hours, that's it, one and done. And then sperm can live like five days. So we got a six day window. You cannot go pull out method at that time. And whenever people are like, I did fam, fertility awareness method, it failed me.

tell me what you were doing during your fertile window. Well, then we would just go to the pullout method. I'm like, pullout method is like one in five become pregnant. That was not FAM because FAM says, you know, there's the chapter called Sex of All Kinds, do all these other things, non-penetrative sex or wear a condom. Or condoms, have a barrier. And that's how you get that efficacy rate,

which is, you know, brings us to the other forms of birth control, which is condoms. And I wish that was talked about more. I've had so many patients that are like, yeah, they just handed me the pill and we're like, go have sex. And I'm like, well, what about the condom talk? And they're like, no. I'm like, if you're not a monogamous relationship, even if you think you are, but you think your partner might not be, you need to be using a barrier method as well. It's just safe sex. And like, yes, chlamydia, gonorrhea, they are treatable. And people are like, oh, you can just take antibiotics. A lot of times they're asymptomatic in women. You don't have symptoms. So that's what asymptomatic means. And you end up with possible scarring in your fallopian tubes and infertility or pelvic inflammatory disease, which is like really scary and really painful. So barrier methods.

are our besties. Like, just have them just in case. And if your partner's ever like, oh, I can't feel anything, it desensitizes. Like, no, it doesn't. I've been using ponds recently. I do not care. It doesn't matter to me. It feels exactly the same to me. Yes. You don't feel like you have a leaky faucet between your legs for the rest of the day. Also, it's their problem, not mine. For once in my life, let it be your problem. Yeah. Yeah. I've got to the bathroom and deal with it. I'm using them too. And I've gotten a lot of messages. And again, every woman is so different, you know, to really use this your cycle should be regular. If you're just all over the place and you always have been.

And I mean, I'm curious even of somebody like Raina who maybe doesn't always have a 28-day cycle. But I've just got a lot of messages from women who are like, I'm using the app and the ring, and then we do condoms on the red zone days or whatever. So, and they said it's been working for them. But I mean, we also want to acknowledge that we're in like a post-row world. And some people are like, I can't take any risks at all,

which I really want to like hammer. Like, we get that too. We're not trying to tell people to take this lightly. No. And I don't either. I want to tell anybody what to do with their body. I want to present them with all the information, know the pros,

the cons, potential risk, and then enable them to make the best decision for themselves and then support what that decision is. So fertility awareness method may be great. I mean, I spaced a pregnancy by eight and a half years with fertility awareness method. Like, works for me because my cycles

have always been predictable. If your cycles are falling outside of like a five-day average, in terms of variability, this might not work for you. If you're somebody who potentially works night shifts, you have a chronic disease of certain kinds that affects your body temperature, like there's all of these variables

that you have to always evaluate, is this true for me, is this best for me, and know your risk? And if the risk of fertility awareness method is an unintended pregnancy and you can't take that risk, maybe this isn't the best thing for you. But you don't want hormones. Copper UD is going to be your bestie in that arena. it's even more failproof than the pill.

It lasts for fucking ever. I love it. I love it. I know. The things are like, you're just like, y'all got my right to die. Let's go.

But now we have like the over-the-counter pill. And what people don't realize is that you've got to take that within like three hours the same time every day. Or it potentially fails. The daily pill. The over-the-counter birth control that just came out. It's progestin only. And so. I wasn't aware of this.

Yeah. Okay. So the brand-new pill. just came out and you can get it over the counter first time in the United States. Well, that's great. You know many other countries are like, why is your birth control not over the counter? Like your pharmacist can talk to you. And I will tell you that pharmacists do a better informed consent than some doctor's

offices do because they've got more time at the pharmacy than seven minutes to like race you through this. And I always encourage people, talk to your pharmacist as well because this is their wheelhouse. They're so knowledgeable. You can ask so many questions. And it's like your free second opinion in a way. like go and I'm like all about like survey as many doctors and health professionals as you can't get all of your questions answered, gather all the data. So with this pill, you need to take it at the same time

every day. Like if you vomit or have diarrhea within four hours of taking it or you've missed it by three hours, you have 48 hours now. You have to get back on it and then you've got 48 hours of barrier methods or not having sex. Like don't let semen enter the vagina because then you're at risk of pregnancy. And this is something that I'm like, we have to talk about. this because again, if you are in a state that is like, well, it's your body my choice, then, you know, that could be potentially problematic. And so that is another option. As you brought up Plan B, Plan B does not force an abortion. And I think this is so important for people to know. It's been troubling to me. I've had patients who are like, well, my pastor said it's an abortion pill.

And I'm like, where did your pastor get in medical school? It is not an abortion pill. Yeah, your pastor. Shut up. What do you mean? your pastor, please. Is he medical professional? But that's the thing. Like, okay, so I respect people's religious beliefs, but they need to understand that. I'll not accept that one.

So if you've heard of a plan. Well, my rabbi didn't go to medical school. I'm not asking for medical advice. There's a rabbi out here that says that. Yeah. Rabbis are like, take the plan B. The Jews are like, go, go get in line. Get your Plan B.

Yeah. I love that. Well, go them. Not all. But yes. Yay, Jews. Different vibes. I'm like, okay, where was I plan B?

Yeah. You've heard a Plan B baby. probably people listening where they're like, my friend, my friend of a friend, or like, you know, my sister took Plan B and she still got pregnant. Plan B prevents ovulation. If the egg is already popped and the semen's been dropped, then friend, they will come together

and you will potentially become pregnant. Chris Decefano. Our friend who's been on the show, now twice, comedian. Yeah, he was like, we took it but didn't work. Plainbee, baby. Yeah. So it's preventing ovulation. I love that you said that. Yes. Like, if the timing was right,

he came inside of you that you had the egg, like, but it's too late. We still highly recognize. I'll recommend plan B, but I love that you said that too. Yeah, but you just have to understand the way these things work. And also, if you're not tracking your cycle, then you don't know if you ovulated and you've just got to take plan B and be like, okay, hopefully the timing was right. I think it's also important for people to understand that you're not pregnant until implantation has happened. And there's a lot of people that, like, philosophically and religiously,

they'll argue all these things, but from a medical perspective, for us to know you're pregnant, we're going to test beta HCG. The only way that we get to beta HCG, that's what you peon on on a stick and measure is once that little embryo has munched its way into your uterine lining, and then you've released the HCG. So as we were talking about with the menstrual cycle, lutenizing hormone, I didn't even go into brain hormones with it because I was like, I don't know, Sarah probably said it's pretty boring, but anyhow, I'm a nerd. LH, lutenizing hormone, that spikes to trigger ovulation, but it continues pulsing through the luteal phase, and that keeps the ovary, the corpus luteum specifically, which produces progesterone. So the LH is like,

keep going ovary, make your progesterone. But it's only going to last 10, maybe 12 days. Like it's not going to go indefinitely. Beta HCG has to be present for that corpus luteum to continue producing progesterone and until a placenta is formed. Then the placenta takes over. Why does this matter? Because you can have fertilization happen up in the flopian tubes.

Things travel down, but it never implants. You're not pregnant unless it implants. There's no beta HCG. it could never be viable. We can't continue to produce progesterone. And that triggers a bleed. That is why we bleed. Progesterone drops.

No beta HCG. And your body's like, do it again. Right. Yeah. I mean, people also want to talk about weight a lot. I think that's like the number one thing too. Am I going to gain weight on the pill, off the pill? Yeah.

You know, that kind of thing. Well, if you gain weight on any hormonal birth control, I'm not going to call you a liar. If you're like, this is what's true for me. And when you look at the research, the research is taking averages. And I want people to understand, like, who enters into research studies. Like that's a certain kind of person.

So there's a selection bias inherent in that. Unless it's like, so that huge study that we got out of Denmark depression over a million women, that's because their medical system is tracking everybody. So nobody's opting in. But if we look at like people who are in these studies who are reporting weight gain, you know, sometimes they're just taking an average.

And they're like, the average is negligible compared to how you might just gain weight over your lifetime. But then you might get that one person who's an outlier. And we expect that in statistics, and we expect that in the population, that when we do a drug trial and then we introduce it to the population, there will be outliers. And there are people who are like, no, I gained like 15, 20 pounds, like within months of starting this. And so that is usually water weight. They're usually holding on to water weight. They come off.

That all starts shedding going away. As we were talking about before, lymphatic drainage is also something you could try to like mitigate that. But there hasn't been research showing that, yes, absolutely, if you start birth control, you're going to gain weight. And because that is a barrier, a lot of people won't even have the conversation. A lot of doctors are like, no, doesn't happen, couldn't happen. Not true for you. Don't talk about it. That's the thing that really gets me is how people will come on the internet. And I love that people share their stories because I think it's so healing for them, but also you never know who else is going to hear it and be like, oh my God, me, same. I'll get help now.

Or now I feel like I can heal and that's, I have all this hope around that. But it really gets me when I see like these, you know, medical doctors or any kind of health care practitioner on social media stitching people, like duetting people and just dragging them and being like, oh, like, this is so stupid and like, I saw this one. It was a UK doctor. And he was dragging this cancer survivor. And she was just sharing about how like I really feel like my thoughts contributed to this. And he's like, oh, this latest like, you know, bull. shit from this influencer and is like totally dragging her and I'm like people can share their stories. People can have individual experiences and don't come on the internet and tell me how you're like

patient centered and collaborative and you're such a nice doctor when you're an asshole. Like you're going to tell me that who you are showing up online like isn't who you show up in your life. Like what is the disconnect here? So one, I think share your story. And two, we should be listening. As doctors, we should be listening to these stories because. how do we know what research to do? Because we listen to the individuals who are experiencing these things. If you look at COVID,

we got that COVID vaccine and nobody thought to check periods. And people got big mad about it. And I'm like, dude, we were in a crisis. They're just like, holy shit, people are dying. Like, we don't want that. Periods, they're like a month-long process-ish, right? So that would slow things down potentially.

Also, women are just always forgotten in these studies. But it wasn't until people started coming out and saying, my period has changed. I was seeing it in patients, and there were doctors that are like, you're just trying to scare people away from using the vaccine. And it wasn't until we hit like 50,000 menstruators who said, my period is different, weird things are happening. I lost my period, like, that they went back and they studied it.

And it was not a surprise to us because your hormones, your immune system, your uterus, they're all connected. Spoiler, it's not like these separate systems. They work together. And so I just want people to understand that if you are having your own experience and it feels like it doesn't correlate to any data out there, that's your data. And that should be respected as well. Absolutely. I mean, I have said on this podcast, I barely felt my IUD go in.

That is the most unique experience I've ever heard of. I don't know anybody else that don't ever say that. No one's ever said that to me. And so I wouldn't base your decisions on what I experienced medically. Yeah. I mean, I personally did lose a little weight right when I got off the pill. but I honestly think it was correlated to just having so much more energy to work out. And I just felt so happy.

There was no emotional eating. I felt a little less hungry. It was just really like on cloud nine all the time. And again, this is everybody's experience. But the energy was a lot of it. I mean, like my Peloton score went up like immediately. Like I was just like I could work out for days. Yeah.

I think that was my personal correlation with seeing, nothing drastic, but like watching my body change. It wasn't just like the pill. And then all of a sudden I dropped all this weight. But also I had women in my DM saying like, I lost 12 pounds immediately. And so who really knows. I think sometimes we forget there's all these other factors.

The hormones are so important, but there's other lifestyle factors. Do you feel like you're sleeping a little bit better? How do you feel like it affected your sleep? Because I feel like you sleep a little more. My sleep changed drastically when I moved to L.A. I don't think it really like impacted my sleep. For me, it was like, you know,

body changes, happiness, mood, sex drive, lubrication. Those are the main things. But I think people are desperate for just like, if you, I want to go off the pill. Let's start there. Like, what do you suggest? So, like, I don't crash or I know you talk about Beyond the Pill and there's a lot in your book about that.

Like, what do you suggest to people who are thinking about this, making this move? So there's things to think about ahead of time. Don't just jump off. So number one is if you're sexually active with, you know, sperm producers, please have a backup method so you don't get pregnant because you could spontaneously ovulate right away. The second thing is that if you went on it for like PMDD, which is I say PMS on steroids sometimes, it's way worse than PMS. And people can become suicidal.

And in some people, the pill can actually help with them. But you're wanting to come off for whatever reason. Make sure that you have a mental health practitioner that can support you through that. And then the third thing is, why did you start the pill? If you're in the 58% of people who started for symptom management, give yourself like three months of prepping your body to come off, especially for that acne component, because that's one of the biggest reasons people will go back on. I think that like skin is so benign when it comes to acne, but not to our mental health.

And that doesn't get recognized. If you got on the pill because you're like, oh, I just wanted to not get pregnant and I'm ready to come off, then you can come off and you don't have to like prep your body as much. You don't have to do any of this honestly. But this is just what I've seen with patients and best practices. But with that, if you're coming off the pill, we want to work on supporting your metabolism. We want to build that nutrient-dense diet, get your nutrient stores up, maybe get you on probiotics, eating a higher fiber diet so that we're taking care of gut health. With coming off the pill, especially with those Drasperinone formulations like Yaz and Yasmin, Ocella, you're so well-versed in this. I just want to give you props. But they suppress

antigens very well, but when you come off, you can have an androgen rebound. And so testosterone spikes up and you're like, bow, wow, wow. But then you're skin, like, ow, ow, like it's not so good. Yeah. And so things like zinc can really help. Yeah, I love this. Like any supplements, like people are really interested in. So zinc can really help.

Myoanositol with dechiroinocetal. Those can help and they can also help with the metabolic component of insulin. So we were talking about that fiber again. You want to have bowel movements happening regularly, drinking plenty of water. So your gut is in your liver are going to be really important for your skin health as well. You might want to bring on omega-3 fatty acids. So this is something that I actually detail more of the research on and is this normal, but this gets slept on a lot with acne.

So IGF1 is a hormone. And what they found is that people who take omega-3 fatty acids about 2,000 milligrams a day, it's correlated with optimal levels of IGF-1 and less acne. When IGF-1 goes up, we can have more acne, more oily skin. So omega-3 fatty acids can be helpful with that as well. So in Beyond the pill, I like had this. chapter, I just called it the liver chapter and my publishers were like yawn. Like that is so boring. And they're like, how about like birth control detox 101?

Because it was like detox 101. And I was like, all right, cool. Like, we'll roll with it. But I didn't realize that in naming that chapter that people were going to run with it and be like, you cannot detox birth control hormones until you've done a detox. And I'm like, and that's not true. What I was teaching in that chapter is eating crucifers vegetables, getting magnesium and amino acids. Like how do you fuel your liver to actually process hormones altogether and make the best metabolites. So that you're going to fill your best. That's also going to help your skin as well. It's going to help your periods. It's going to help your breasts not be so tender. And then conversely, it sounds like you have a lot of information on what you

can do if you're going to stay on the pill and just to feel better. Yes. Like you're like, I'm not going to have the pill, but how can I potentially feel a little bit better while I'm on it? Yeah. So there's the nutrients. There's the microbiome stuff we talked about. And then there's just optimizing your detox pathways altogether. So what does that look like? Making sure that you're moving every day. You get sweaty several days out of the week. You are doing deep breathing. You're working on your stress response as well. And you're getting regular screenings from your doctor. I think it's something that with the pap smears, now we're like three to five years for some people. People are like, oh, I just don't go to the doctor. And I'm like, you still want to get your breast checked out. You

still want to get like your thyroid tested. If you have, you know, a family history of like diabetes or you've ever had blood sugar issues, fasting insulin. And so in Beyond the Pill, I do a whole list of labs and things that you should be checking up on. But also looking at like how can you support an anti-inflammatory lifestyle. So additional things like eating turmeric, eating ginger, you actually offered me ginger tea. I passed on it though. It's a very warm herb and it's already warm here. So turmeric, ginger, making sure you're getting omega-3 fatty acids in, again, that's going to be very food-based as well. Bringing in things even like seed cycling, no matter where you're at on birth control, off of birth control, anywhere in your journey, it's a great way to optimize

fatty acids and nutrients in a cyclical manner. So there's a lot of things I detail in beyond the pill of how to support your body on birth control. And if people are like, what's this anti-inflammatory stuff? Remember when I said, when we've got to... inflammation up, the brain, we're changing things. So those anti-inflammatories can certainly help. And I have a whole chapter on mood. And then I have a whole chapter. It's interesting. Beyond the pill, I have a whole chapter on libido. And I talk about like all the nutrients related to birth control and all that. If you're not on birth control, is this normal whole chapter on libido? It's huge. It's like twice the size is the other one. And I go even deeper. The whole front of the book is all about sex.

Okay. Yeah. And there's just a lot out there. There's more information and there's more supplements and things like that. I have a whole subble in the line. I'm going to send you some stuff. It's about yours. Yeah, well, I'm like, if you're having PMS, then friend, like, and I'm not your doctor, but you can try. So we have a supplement called Balance Women's Hormone Support. Okay. It's going to have nutrients in there that's going to support your ovulation, helping

you get ample progesterone, which is going to help with alludeal phase so you get better sleep, and so that you have a better mood altogether. But it also helps with estrogen metabolism. And this is something I'm really big on, is that this trifecta, of doing dim, which is phase one of the liver metabolism. You don't have to know all this to know that it's got help. And then sulfurophane, which is going to help with phase two, and then calcium deglucrate, which is also part of liver detoxification,

but it helps in the gut, that if you have an increase in beta-gluceronidase, an enzyme that bacteria make, I know, I'm going to break it down. No, I know. So beta-gluceronidates, re-conjugates estrogen, reactivates it. So your liver does all this work. You get it to the gut, and the bacteria is like, put it back into circulation. And so it helps with that whole metabolism. It's called balance because we want to optimize and balance estrogen, but also get the healthiest metabolites. So

estrogen metabolites, they can be problematic. They can cause lumps, bumps, you know, growths, heavy periods, but also cancer. And so we always want to be working towards the healthiest balance. And then it also has selenium in it, has resveratol, all of these things that the research is shown to be really beneficial for women's hormones. So I usually couple that with our adrenal support. This is what we call the period problems kit. Our adrenal support, we didn't even talk about adrenals, but they're so, so important, not just for energy,

but for helping your resiliency to stress. And when they're optimally working, your periods do become easier. And then we have our women's probiotic. And this probiotic is one of a kind. I was like, look, I want these spore-based organisms because those are good for the gut. They're actually going to make it in there. they're like the bouncers where they're like, you out and you're good, you stay.

And they make sure the right people are there. But then it also has lactobacillus, acidophilis, and ramnosis for the vagina and for the urinary trachshund system. And we added in a prebiotic so that good stuff grows and an antioxidant that's been shown to be helpful with the urinary tract system. So we're like, cover the hormones, cover the gut, cover the vagina, cover the UTI potential problems, make sure that we can keep those at bay. Men are just like, I just exist.

I can't. And I just complained about using a con. By everything you're saying, I'm just sitting here being like, women are so strong. Well, I don't know. My husband, I'm like, he's on adrenal support. He takes the adrenal com at night. He's got his magnesium.

And we're in the fertility. Well, I'm also like, if he is optimized, it makes my life easier. But also being on a fertility journey, I'm like, we will not have DNA fragmentation stir. And like, this whole thing in fertility, where they're like, all the time women will tell me, like, well, my doctor said, like, my husband's sperm's good enough. I'm like, what does that mean? And they're like,

oh, it's just like within normal range. Like, it's good enough. And I'm like, why would you want good enough when you can have optimal? Like, you can take things like vitamin C and selenium and zinc. Like, yeah, but like my husband, he got his sperm analysis done, like multiple doctors that we saw like prized him. And they were like, oh my God. Like, look at how many like healthy swimmers you have going the right direction and no two-headed like mutants and like, oh my God. And they were like, this is optimal. And it was like, top of the range. It looks so good. And he was so proud. And I'm just like, yeah, but sir, like, I like put together your protocol. I'm the one that's like, eat your damn veggies. You're going to a doctor.

I mean, I love that you said that. That's important. I mean, A, you want you and your partner to be is optimally healthy. But especially if you're trying to have children, like, it's on him too and his health. I love that too. And I mean, I told my boyfriend, I'm like, not on getting married, but I was like, listen, if you ever want to marry me, you'd get a vasectomy, and that's the deal. I would have married if you get a vasectomy. Yeah. That's our facts. Wait, so you don't want kids at all. I don't. Why you messing with an IUD vasectomy? Like, come on. Listen. Oh, you're just together. You're right. We're newer, but like it's been talked about. I think it's great. I would say not most, but more than not, are not on birth

control. But a lot of them, like, I was a two girlfriends on Saturday night, neither of them are at the point where they want to get married and have children with their partner. And so to make the call of like, well, you get a bisectomy right now is a tough call to me. Yeah, yeah. So you're in this sort of like purgatory of like, well, I don't want to put these hormones in my body, but I can't ask you to do this either. You're going to ask. I think you can ask. You can always ask. Like, yeah, I mean, this is the part of sex. They're reversible, right? Well, they are reversible, but in some instances, they might not be, you know, some guys are like, I'm just going to bank sperm and freeze it and hold it back. And then I'm getting a vasectomy and then like I've got it if I wanted.

That too. Yeah. So there's like, I mean, I forgot they can do that. As well, but I mean, God, so's like the pill and everything else. So there's all these variables and it doesn't always have to be just like, you have the ovaries, you figure it out. And I think this is the part of like having sex being in a relationship that like, if you can't have these kinds of conversations, then like maybe this isn't the right person to be

in a relationship with you don't feel comfortable. I love that. I love that. I love that as well. I agree. Well, we have kept you really long. I really wanted to cover everything because I really wanted people to feel like they can attempt to get off at the pill and they're supported and the information that they have.

And they can also choose to stay on it and potentially feel better and all of these things. Choice. That is what we want. We have options, but the number one is the best act to me. I have a friend, Dr. Tony Youen, who I love because he is just always on social media being like, be a real man, get a vasectomy. He's a plastic surgeon, okay? But he's just like, why are you guys

making women do this? When he's just like, nobody wants kids, you're married and you're like, you have to stay on the pill indefinitely. He's like, just snip, snip and be done with it. Yeah, totally. I know I was talking about potentially even like getting my tubes tied to my mom. I was like, actually, don't you dare fucking do that.

She was like, super invasive compared to a vasectomy. I know. I know. I actually didn't. I started doing a bunch of research. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's more than I like assumed. It's not just like a,

yeah. Women have been like, get an ablation. I'm like, I don't even, I'm not a candidate for an ablation. No, no, no, no. Okay.

Right. Yeah. Which also, burn out that uterine lining. Like, his stuff is on the outside. Like, it is literally like,

cut a little skin, snippet, tie it. Your tubes are inside. That is like, we got to go in your body, like through your abdominal. Like,

that is not, like, no. Pumpy full of air. It sounded crazy. That's act to me is I couldn't recommend it enough. Yeah. You guys just like,

start getting like t-shirts with like little scissors on it like a little like accessories just like dropping hints everywhere well I just I really have to say I know we've referenced your book a lot but is this normal is fantastic and you leave no stone unturned I mean I think some books about like medical procedures you're like what does that mean you really dive deep into everything you answer every question I thought it was really an incredible book and we should know this stuff about our bodies and I don't so it really is phenomenal I highly recommend people get it well thank you Thanks. I wanted to write the book that like we all needed like when we got our period and through no longer getting our period and really understanding like the thing, like just answer the questions that like you just don't even want to go to your doctor with. Because maybe you feel like they won't help. But also you're like, do I really ask like, is it normal to have all this stuff dripping out of me when I'm done having sex? Like do I want to ask that? Is this the most pressing thing right now? Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And I'm sure people will want to find your Instagram and your website and your books. And if you could tell people where to find all that. Yeah, well, my main hub is Dr.brighton.com, DR, B-R-I-G-H-T-E-N.com. Women often call it the Google of women's health.

Like, you literally go there and I will take you through your topics and I will take you through all the things you can do right now to start feeling better and then when you need to see a doctor as well. And then I'm all over social media at DR. Jolene Brighton. So pick a place and I'm there, not like, telegraph or whatever that is. I'm not there, but I'm in the cool places. Okay. I also just want to say, I mean, we're sitting here talking as like two women who don't have children, who really don't have plans to. Yeah. But do you cover a lot of like pregnancy, post-pregnancy as well?

Because that's a whole other fucking crazy thing. So my very first book is called Healing Your Body Naturally After Childbirth. Okay. All right. That is all about postpartners. I wasn't really about that one because it's so relevant to me. It is so long ago. I think this is some of the craziest stuff that, you know, I don't have personal experiences with, but with friends.

And it's just like a completely different level. of what your body experiences, like before, during, and after. Yeah. And even when we just talk about depression and hormonal changes and things like that. So it falls into all of this. Like, is this normal? I feel this certain way, you know, so I just want to tell people that are in a different stage of life than Rain and I that you tackle that as well.

And people can let me know because right now I've got like tons of people that are like, please write a fertility book and like all of the things you've done and all of your research. And then I've got other people that are like, and I should say, because I, had my last child and that was all a natural thing at 40 and then had four miscarriages at 41 and went into IVF at 42. So I feel like I've really, as a doctor and as a patient, like, been through this gamut.

But then people are like, oh, but will you please write about parimenopause? And I'm like, these are two different things. Like, you're like, I want babies. And you're like, peace out, babies. Like, we're going to menopause. So people can just let me know. Why do you want to see you next?

I'm game. I mean, there's things I'm passionate about. And then there's also like what serves, what's going to support people. people what can help the most. Well, you could do a miscarriage book. I mean, there's like a million different things that people need, you know. So, all right.

Well, thank you so much. This was wonderful. This was like our longest interview in a long time. We could have you here for three more hours and not even scratch the surface. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Of course.

And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat.com. Get those tour tickets. We cannot wait to see you on the fall tour. Follow us at Girls Got to Eat podcast both on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Has. Raina's Raina.greenberg, our other company, Vives Only, Vives Only.com, Vives Only on Instagram, and subscribe on YouTube, tell a friend, share this episode with every person you know,

may I'll be male, whatever, and we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.