Girls Gotta Eat - CATFISHING with Nev Schulman

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

We're joined by an icon in the world of internet connections -- Nev Schulman of Catfish (the movie, MTV show, and podcast). We're chatting with Nev about the type of people who catfish and get catfished, how to find out if someone isn't who they say they are, confronting someone who has deceived you, and how to forgive yourself and move on after being catfished. We're also sharing our listeners' stories, Nev shares the craziest situation he's experienced, AND Rayna tells the wild story of her (very recent) Catfishing. Hope you enjoy! Follow Nev on Instagram @NevSchulman, and check out the Catfish podcast. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg, and Ashley @AshHess. Check our website for merchandise and show updates. Thank you to our partners this week: Truff: Get 15% off sitewide + free shipping with code GGE at truff.com/gge. Pretty Litter: Use promo code GGE for 20% off your first order at prettylitter.com. Helix: Get up to $200 off all mattress orders + 2 free pillows at helixsleep.com/gge. HelloTushy: Go to hellotushy.com/gge to get 10% off + free shipping. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You should make an Instagram account for Norka and friend your parents. And don't say anything to them. Our episode of Girls Gotta Eat, happy March. What's your little smug face about? Coming up on a year of the pandemic. This month is going to hit hot. It's going to hit different. You made this little smug face like something smelled bad.

And I was trying to cry as I thought about March. I am really excited for March. I'm going to see my parents. All of our parents are fully vaccinated. Parents are vaccinated. Fully vaccinated. My aunt and uncle, like all the oldies in my life. So I'm driving home. I'm at next week and I'm going to see my parents. I'm going to hug my mom for the first time in the year. Only she last night. She won't let you. She'll be like, you know, let's wait until the summer. Your mom's like, I could still be a transmitter. She's like, there could be a droplet in my nostril. I don't want to risk it.

She did tell me. I was like, so like, can I stay at the house? Can we like go out to dinner? And she was like, maybe in the spring. of 2022. Your mom's like, I want to be really clear that I'm not going to touch you until 2022. It'll be 2020 and she'll be like, we've been, we've gone this long. Yeah. My dad's, yeah, my dad's like, do you think it's safe if I go to a concert? I'm like, wow, you're coming out of the gate. What concert?

I don't know. What does he know about the underground concert? It'd be 73 raging. Your dad's like, I've heard about these like kind of indoor underground orgies. Do you think it'd be safe if I go? Honestly, if he did that, it would make me like him more. Listen. Are we ready for a bill update? You'll go with him. No, I'm not going. My first orgy is with your dad. What are we doing? Today's episode. So excited.

Okay, we have a man that has been with me in every hotel I have been in for like a decade. Hundreds of hotel rooms. He's the only man. Is he my longest relationship? Maybe. Yes, maybe. Do you want to announce who it is? I'm so excited.

It's Neve Shulman from Catfish. Oh my gosh. It's happening. It's really happening. I'm like, I feel like I'm an OG fan. Like I watched Neve's documentary. Do you remember that Neve did a documentary before the show? 2009, the guy that I lost my virginity to, who I briefly got back together with,

for five minutes when I was living in New York. He told me about it. He told you. So my brother told me about it. He was like, this catfish thing, you got to watch it. So we watched the documentary as a family. And then the show came about. And yeah, I mean, I feel like I would watch catfish in real time.

Like, I was watching it live on MTV. And what do you mean in real time? Like, I watched it whenever it came on. I don't know, 9 p.m. on Tuesday. I'm saying, like, I tuned in at that time, like, it was the 90s. I know. Oh, that show was so revolutionary. And back then, there weren't how many ways to stock people.

It was just like MySpace. and Facebook. Listen, if you guys were getting catfish in 2021, you've got a problem, but some of y'all are. And we're going to unpack it. There's more ways to catfish people, but there's more ways to find out that you are being catfish. And this dovetails into like a very

crazy thing that happened to me. I recently got catfished. Yeah, so we're going to, Rhonda's going to hold on that and tell Neve that story. And, but we lightly teased it last week because there's a dick pick involved that we all know that dick pick was a smoking gun.

For me. For me personally, we'll get to it. There were so many other clues I was getting catfish, but the perfect dick pick was what Ashley knew that he was catfish. Ashley goes, no one has washboard abs and a dick that looks like that. I guess. Perfect dick. I know. He like Googled like perfect dick. Well, I don't know. And then can you reverse Google image search a dick. Yeah. I reverse Google image search that dick. We're going to talk more about that with Neve because so many people want to know, like, how do I do that? So hopefully he still has those skills set. I don't know. And he's like a dad now. He's a beautiful wife.

He's two kids. But yeah, we're going to unpack your guys' stories first. Yes. We're going to go a little backwards. We are going to tell some Kappa stories you guys submitted. Then we'll bring Neve in. And then we're going to go even more backwards and maybe do a wreck right now. What do you think?

Oh, my God. I just have one. Okay. I was going to tell you something funny that happened to me last night and they'll do racks and we'll do stories. Okay. Oh, my gosh. We are all over the place.

I just, it's a tiny little anecdote. But last night I posted this thing on my Instagram story. I had ordered... Oh, you're telling this story now. I'm telling you to you. Oh, right now. Okay. And then we're going to go to Rex.

Okay. Sorry. Oh, you want to go back, back back. Rex first? Keep going off. I ordered Levine cookies to my apartment. If you guys don't know what Levine are... The cookies are substantial.

It's a heavy cookie. They're unbelievable. So a friend of mine, Emily, sent them the day after Dewey Pass. Like, that was one of the first things that came in hot. And she was like, go get these things. go get this thing from your doorman. And I had heard of them, but I feel like I'd actually held off because I was like, that's why I don't want to do crack because I'll probably get addicted.

So like, I'd never had them. And they hit me at the perfect time. So I'm like crying into these cookies. Like I was like, Ashley submerged from her trauma, like 30 pounds heavier. Like they are unbelievable. They're like 2,000 calories of cookie. That seems low. I know.

I might be 5,000. I don't know. It's a daily calorie count. But I post made it four Levine cookies. That's how you know you're single. And I put it on my Instagram story and I was like, this is what I'm doing tonight. Somebody needs to have sex with me soon.

It's so strong. I responded. I was like, did you really just write? Somebody needs to have sex with me soon on your Instagram story. Go off. Live your truth. And then I spent the night like I was the response on that. That's why I was going to tell you.

So I was checking my DMs and I got like such sweet messages from girls about my thirst traps are for you girls. They're not. Every time I post a thirst trap, it's just like you guys. just gas me up. I don't get laid. I get, I got the sweet, I also put it saying my Instagram story about squirting. All these people were like, did I miss an episode about it? So I have a thousand DMs yesterday about oatmeal raisin cookies and squirting. And people tell me all the time the first time they gave a blowjob to completion. So like, I have all these really sweet

supportive messages about stuff. And I was thinking like, God, I love our audience. Because like, so many other people couldn't post a story like that because like half of their audience is male and they'll just get some like disgusting onslaught. A hundred percent. I'm just like people saying terrible. like, oh, come over and fuck you. And I was thinking all night, like, it's so sweet. They're like, we, I have such a, I personally have such a large female following and so do you and so does girls got to eat? But then it hit me like, is it because no one wants to sleep with me?

Okay. Listen, it's not that. I think so many guys probably started typing that. And then they were like, I don't want to end up on her Instagram story next. You know what I'm saying? Like, as the like, I think people are just getting more and more scared as they should. Okay. Thank you for putting positive.

Some guy tried to sex with me in the DMs the other day. I was like, no. sir. I think they're a little scared. Like this girl's a big deal. She's out here just posting so much about her life. She already just posted a DM about squirting. Like I think you see a DM about squirting that you posted.

Then you see this thirst trap of, you know, I want to fuck somebody. And I think a guy's like, I could be next. Thank you for putting a positive spin on it because you know, sometimes like I get high and then I see the world like more clearly for like what it really is. And like all day I was like, this is so nice. Our audience is so wonderful. And then I got high and I was like, oh, it's because no one wants to know it's not about that okay thank you for putting a positive spin on that

because i was nervous i love when like i mean you and i really are together all the time we know each other's every move so like when you post something that like i wasn't aware of and it like makes me laugh like i slide in there like i'm a fan like i'm like oh my god that's so funny like when you were like i can't where you just said that i was like really it's just so bold i loved it I think of someone needs to have sex with me soon. It sounded so, like, it just, I felt it in my soul. Like, it was so, it was so real. Like, it was, like, the way you said it.

It wasn't, like, vulgar. It was just, like, someone needs to have sex with me soon. I mean, this is what I was doing. And I was so amped. Like, it came from the heart. Somebody really does need to have sex with me soon. Oh, my God. You know what it's like, I got so much dick, like, at the beginning of the year.

I was like really getting it. Yeah. It got taken away. But listen, I recently could have re-reached out for that person for some dick this week. And you didn't. Yeah. Didn't even kill it. Yeah.

Are you ready for my wreck? Yeah. Okay. I love this movie so much. It's not a hot take. It's from 2018. So it's a little newer for me. It is new. Yeah.

And it is book club. I don't know this. Well, Diane. Oh, I don't know that. So Raina found out very recently that I'm a Diane Keaton Stan. And I said something about like, did you see Diane's Instagram? And she was like, Diane, who? I was like, Keaton!

Diane Keaton! You find all these sleeper and Molly Sims' Instagram? But I love Diane Keaton. I think she's such a strong, powerful woman. And I love Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda's in it. And then Candice Bergen, who was Murphy Brown, right? And then Mary, whatever, who is the mom and stepbrothers.

I don't know her name. everything. She's married to Ted Danson, I want to say. Okay, but anyway. She's married to somebody for like 40 years. So Diane Keaton, Jane Fonda, bad bitch, lover. I met her before back in Atlanta. You know, she used to be married to 10 Turner, who started CNN. So, you know, just while we're here, CNN's daddies, miss you every day. And then Candace Bergen and then marry whatever, stepbrother's mom. And there are these four women. They've had a book club for 40 years. And I just, it's really, it's, they're in their 60s, maybe even 70s. So I just, I love that. I love seeing like a glimpse into my future. And like I love stories about like women and older women just live in their best lives. And they really, at ones, one is married, but like her sex

life is kind of like on the rocks. One is widowed. One is divorced and one has never been married. So they really cover it all. And they just have had this book club for 40 years and they start reading 50 shades of gray. And it just kind of like what it happens. They're all kind of like on the dating scene. One of them gets on Bumble. Diane Keaton meets this guy like this hot guy. And it's just it's, it's, amazing. It's like sex in the city in their 60s, 70s, whatever of like dating and trying to get laid. And it's just, I feel like there's even like a Carrie, Samantha, Miranda, Charlotte. Like, I don't know. Just the parallel felt so great to me. I laughed out loud a lot. I cried at one part, but like I found myself laughing out loud a lot. Like it's just like Jane Fonda, she's just so spicy. It's really well written. And I just found myself like loving every second of it. I was like sad when it was over. And it's just great. I I love to see, I want to see more like that. That's why we talked about sex in the city. Like, hopefully it's kind of the same vibe and they're in their 50s.

So book club, like, obsessed with it. And now you guys know I am a Diane Keen stand. I'll check it out. So we are going to get into the cappish portion. We're going to read your listener submissions. But before we do that, and I will tell my cafish story, I want to tell it to Neve because it's nuts. But I want to hear if you've been catfished because I don't think I know this.

Nothing like super crazy, like traditional. I think like a couple times. I really got the, like, guy was way shorter, which I think, you know, like happens. And this one time it happened. And like, I was really bombed. I'd been like talking to him. I thought he was just going to be like bigger. Like he played sports in college and he was just like so small. And I had like, I'd already taken a shot before I went down to meet him. And so I just like went with it. We ended up like, he was, because he had pretty good face. But like we hung out the whole night. I got wasted and like brought him home and like used out of sex toy for the first night. Like I mean, like never stopped

calling me ever. Like it was just like, I didn't care because it's like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm done with this guy. And then like, he had the smallest little hands, like whatever. But, um, and then I, um, I got, I've been hat fished. This is a term I learned. I was, I was today years old. So hat fished,

which, you know, no shade to bald men, Raina prefers them. I, I fucking love it. Yeah. And I'm not saying, I, I do like a guy with a full head of hair. I don't like really like a guy that's balding. So I'm kind of like, you know, take it off or don't, we don't want to like a comb over. And in between her.

And then when they hat fish you, so you'll see sometimes on dating app profiles, they'll crop the top of their head or they'll only be wearing hats. On dating apps, it's really obvious who's hat fishing. And then I like had been hanging out with this guy. He lived, we met when we were walking our dogs and we started going on walks and we were doing

outside stuff. And then the first time we went to a restaurant, we walked in. He took off his hat. And I was like, oh, he's fully bald. That guy also virginity catfished me where that guy was like all over. That was the guy that was the born and virgin, but like he had been like rubbing his dick between my butt cheeks. That guy rubbed his dick between my butt cheeks, came on my back, and then two dates later told me he was a born and virgin.

I cannot. So I got catfish by him twice. And then. And had fished once. And then the other thing I think, um, this was not too long ago. Someone sent me a full blown profile of someone using all of my picks. Remember this? But she said she was 27.

So I was like flattered. I would be flattered too. If I found out that anybody who's doing that and you guys don't do that to me, like honestly, you could pick somebody better looking at me. No, I don't want. I was flattered.

I was like, go off. I would be flattered too. If somebody chose me, you could have chose anybody. You chose me? And then I will say, I feel like I got, we talked about this before,

like, humor, comedy catfish where someone's like really funny on text or like within the dating app and then they're not in person. And the best pre-date banter I've had in so long was Michael Jackson voice. So that was like a bummer because we had such great banter and he showed up. And it wasn't just that he had Michael Jackson

voice. It was that he was like just really not that funny. I think he was shy, but like he was not who he was over text. So I feel like who was writing those texts. I feel like I'm having an opposite situation with this guy right now who I'm kind of talking to who like is in comedy and he's funny in comedy. And in real life, he's not funny. And I'm like, what, where is the disconnect here? Like everything he says, it's like almost funny. It's like when you're like, it's like trying to land a sneeze and you just can't sneeze. I just, I don't know. I feel like like what's going on here. can't quite get there. Yeah, and we know, I mean, we know a lot of comedians who can, like, write jokes really well

and that are just, like, incapable of forming sentences in person. Yeah. That happens. It happens. It happened on the show once. Listen, not going to name any names. But you guys can get. Take your guesses.

It was 2018. Summer. Anyway, you guys. I actually picked this season. I got a text from the guy we talked about last week with the rejected booty call. Okay. And I just thought it was about that. And I thought he had, like, heard.

It wasn't. He just was sending me something else, which I'm like, are you trying to slide back in? It's kind of a sext. It was like a funny thing, like about a croissant, which I'm like, okay. What are you doing? Because you were told to leave me alone. But no, I just saw that I... I know if we ever told them this last week. The guy that I was talking about that like I'm really good friends with that, like, told me he didn't want to sleep together. That's the guy that told him to not sleep with you anymore. That's so true.

I forgot that. It's so true. He's just out here cockedlocked. everybody, including himself and you. No, but I saw two texts from him and I was like, oh, God, he heard the episode. But I also wouldn't care. Like, we talk, like, you know. We don't say anything on the show. I don't care. When I'm saying stuff in the show, I'm prepared for those people to listen.

Yeah. I'm always just like, e-e. Okay. Are we ready to be funny if you were like, you weren't supposed to hear that. And he was like, a million people heard that. Ashley. Okay, we're going to read some of your listeners submissions for getting catfish. You guys sent such really, like, creative funny ones.

Apparently there's a million ways to. catfish. And we thought we would get into that first. And then we'll give you guys advice and tips and things like that with Neve. Yeah. And then these are just kind of all across the board. I mean, there's, there is one that's like pretty standard close to like what you would have seen on the show. Catfish. And the other ones are just kind of stuff that made us laugh that was like in the same vein. So I'm going to start with this one. I told Raina not to read this one. So she, this is going to be a nice surprise for her. Okay. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was talking to a guy in Hinge and we joked about how our quarantine romance would never be able to exist in the real world because of lockdown.

We texted every day and talked in the phone for hours. I love the show Catfish and joked about how we hadn't FaceTime before when he said his camera was broken. I was pretty confident he was messing with me and was not a catfish. But when I tried to FaceTime him and he ignored the call. I tried again the next day and again he didn't answer. I started to question if he was if he really was catfishing me and decided to try calling one last time. This picture started to FaceTime him three times. We have friends like that.

To my surprise, he picked up and was naked in the shower. He was just waiting for her to call him when he was in the shower. I was speechless and so flustered. Talk about a weird way to meet someone. I told him it seemed like he was busy and should let him go. So I hung up after laughing uncontrollably. I later found out he screenshot my reaction, which was a hilarious first photo for our quarantine relationship.

I don't even know if they continued to date. I am so dead over this. Where are they now? I know. She thought that she was being catfished and he finally picked up on the fourth FaceTime and he was butt naked in the shower. He was just waiting for her to call him when he was butt naked. He was just like, I got you, bitch.

I got to know if they're still together. God damn it. How would she not? She knows we need to know. That is so funny. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, I lied.

I went back into the email. She did give us an update. There was a second paragraph that I had originally cut. Okay. They dated for four months through quarantine, but never got to do normal life together because of COVID. After ending things with him, a friend told me to listen to your episode,

your man who's not your man, and it was a game changer. It is because of my quarantine relationship that I Discover GGE. Damn. Oh my gosh. Your podcast has truly got me through some rough quarantine moments. Oh my gosh. So her catfish story led her to us.

I love the end of the story. I'm so glad I went back and looked. Oh, me too. That's a beautiful. Four months. After the naked shower phone answering. But they met up. They did meet up.

It sounds like they did. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they were just like virtual the whole time. I mean, four months. Like they must have met up at some point. I feel like catfish thrived during quarantine. That was a dream for catfishes. Can't meet up.

It's a pandemic. I know. I feel like it really had its moment. Can't face time. This moment in 2020. Okay. Okay. This made me laugh so hard.

All right. Almost 10 years ago, back when chat rooms were a thing before smartphones, I met this cute-ass dude from the UK on chat roulette. I did, do you remember chat roulette? No, I do not. I don't know what that is. Yeah. My friend and I were trying it out when it first was created before it was overrun by old

saggy dicks. This guy Camden was so hot and played in a Beatles cover band. I was 19 and super dumb. Just kept chatting with this complete stranger across the world. Cool. I really connected with him and we exchanged Skype info and phone numbers. We continued to talk until one day he asked me to come to Seattle for the Christmas holiday because he would be in the States staying with his family.

I live on the East Coast and was again a child. I ended up flying across the country at 19 years old to spend 10 days floating through Seattle with a hot British guy in his band. I stayed in a nice hotel, ate so much yummy food, and had the best sex for 10 days straight. I felt like I was on another planet. I was like vibing my life away. Vibing my life away. Trope came to an end and I was like so sad.

I was in love of this guy. I was literally started a new life with him in the UK. L.O.L. I didn't even have a degree yet. Bitch, where are you going to go? Since Facebook slash my face were really the only way to stock people then. I found his band's Facebook page when I got home and found out they were completely American. Fully just lived in Bellingham, which is a suburb outside of Seattle.

I met his friends, family and hung out with this dude for over a week. Never once noticed he was faking an accent. accent. How did he set this up to his friends? Hey guys, I'm pretending to be British for this girl. I'm flying out here soon. So I need you to just play along with it. I'm talking during sex, a fool on British freak. Morning coffee, a sweet British treat. Oh my God. Never once did he break character. Pretty sure this dude is fully a con artist. I ended up messaging and being like, what the fuck? Who are you? In response, I never ever forget it. And then she put in quotes, just a bit of fun, calm down.

That was his response to her. All in all, I got an all expensive paid trip to Seattle with amazing sex and adventures and a British version of this hot Pacific Northwest dude at the age of 19. Truly my win, his loss. Stay safe out there, never know when someone's

literally not at all who they say they are. Okay, the craziest part is that he did this in front of friends and family. Well, listen, is he Hilaria Baldwin? Okay, yeah. Or maybe he had like a tragedy. a car accident. He just told people. Like, it changed my accent. I woke up. We know people, fake accents. Maybe he just loves

British culture. And that's his truth. And he would grow up over. I'm just kidding. But I was like, we have heard this story this year already. This is crazy. Also, like, we're going to talk about this today. Like, how do you confront someone when you find this out? I know. I'm just like, I'm so baffled. Well, she did. Right? She said, um, who the fuck are you? And he said, just calm down. Yeah. Gaslighting extraordinary. The people that are willing to do this, though, are also willing to go to, like, an extent to make you feel like you're insane.

So I'm curious. Like how to shut this down. The gas lining goes with it. Okay. This one is, this is a fave. This is a catfish on a catfish. This is a double catfish. Okay.

She says the short version, my roommate used me to catfish her boyfriend who was pretending to catfish for his friend. I cannot decide for that. No, I can't. I read it seven times. Yes, I was like, we need more to this. So thank God she was like,

the full story. About two years ago, my roommate moved to South. Carolina and started dating a guy she met through Bumble. They talked, decided to meet up, and eventually started dating. Two months into officially dating, she happened to see a Tinder notification come up on his phone. She confronted him and he stated he was only still using his account to, quote unquote, help out his buddy because quote unquote, his buddy thought his girl was cheating on him. So this guy was like trying to catfish for his friend. He stated he had been doing

it for the past few weeks and she had nothing to worry about. She immediately asked him to stop, delete the accounts and he agreed. A few weeks go by and she sees another notification. Instead of calling him out on it, she calls me and we decide to create a Tinder account with my pictures for her to see if she can catch him. She scrolls for about 20 minutes and finds his profile, same as it was when she matched with him on Tinder. She swipes right and immediately matches with my profile. They start to message and he asks to meet up that night. She agrees and they set a time. About an hour later, she arrives at the restaurant and sees her boyfriend sitting at the bar waiting for

his date. Shit hit the fan to say the least and they ended up breaking up. Thank goodness. I still have the receipts if you need them. This is incredible. I believe that it's true. A hundred percent. I totally believe this. Also, I just happens all the time. Yeah, I think the women, I would do so, I would spend an entire week doing this. I would spend a lifetime doing this. Yeah. I'll do some crazy shit. That is so, I mean, it took me a while to understand that email. I mean, yeah. And then when you really think the way she said it was so convoluted, but it's just that he was like, he lied about catfishing. He wasn't actually catfishing. He lied. He said he was catfishing for his friend. Right, but he was just trying to cheat on her.

Yeah, he was just on it. He was on Tinder. Okay. Stay woke, ladies, out there, okay? Okay. This is the last one, and this one is a true MTV catfish style story. Okay, so just drop in. First off, thank you for being you and everything you do to empower women and people in general.

You asked for catfish stories and I knew my time had come. She's like, it's happening. It's happening. She's sitting on this this whole time. She's like, oh, my God. Three years. She's like, one day they'll do it. Her like walk-up music starts playing.

It's like, duh. She's like, my time is comes. Can you just picture, like pounding it out on the keys? Okay, girl, your time has come. Okay. So when I was 18, my mom and step-dub split up. I was devastated in a very vulnerable place and was naturally looking for love in all the wrong places,

i.e. Facebook. I had seen this cute guy named Sebastian O'Neill interacting with a few other girls from my hometown and thought maybe I should shoot my shot. We talked every day for weeks about everything we could think about. we totally clicked. He was so nice and loving and said all the right things my 18 year old self would want to hear. It became so intense that we decided to be in a Facebook official relationship without even meeting each other. He told me he lived in Toronto, which was about four and a half

hours away from the small city I lived in. He said he didn't drive, so he was going to come visit me on the bus. I was so excited. I waited all day. When I got the text, I'm outside. I rushed out my building door to find no one there. I feel like my heart like sinks like reading this. Like to feel that at 18. Like I can't even imagine. to find, so she found no one there. I texted Seb, so she calls him Seb this whole time, Sebastian, to find out if he had got the address wrong, no reply. I called, no answer, which I was expecting because he said his phone was broken.

I didn't hear back from him for two weeks. This started a year-long cycle of behavior like this. I mean, this is exactly like the show. I mean, it's nuts to say I'm outside. I feel like sick about it. And you're like, like she's going through some shit. Like it makes me so sad. There were many people that he had been interacting with claiming they had met him.

one was this girl Larissa. She and I became friends very quickly and I often talked to her about my concerns of Seb being real or not. So I'm assuming she just saw people he was talking to also on Facebook and just like kind of started messaging with them. That's what happens on the show.

On the show, right. So over the time of mine and Seb's relationship because they did like reconnect, he sent me many gifts, a ring, a necklace, many plaid shirts, my fashion at the time, a bunch of letters, including one that had 150 things that he loved about me.

I start, there's your first red flag. Okay, PDF. Do not get your 50 things he liked about me. It may as well have been. Okay, it was a four-page single-space type letter, but everything that he loved about me and then he broke out with me six weeks later.

So you can relate. Okay. I'm so glad the PDF popped into my mind. Okay. So 150 things he loved about me. I started to test Seb because I knew after a while that this person couldn't be real, and I wanted to find on who he was.

I told him for ages I wanted an iPad. and then I wanted to go to British Columbia. Larissa invited me out to British Columbia, which I went and got a free trip. Then Larissa bought me an iPad for my birthday. This is just so crazy. I asked her so many times if she was Sebastian, to which she always said no.

To this day, I don't believe her. It's been over 10 years now since this happened. I never really got any legit answers, but I still think about this often, and I wish that Catfish was a show when this was happening because I would have written in, but it had been too long since, and there's no way to contact this Sebastian O'Neill anymore.

and Larissa blocked me too. Anyway, if you want to know anything else, I'm happy to answer any questions, you guys are my favorite. I mean, that's insane. I'm curious, though, so she met this Larissa person on the internet as well and then took a trip with her?

Or that girl bought her, or that girl... Like, yeah, they went to British Columbia on this trip. She met her and went on the trip. Yeah, so, like, I mean, it just had to have been Larissa, right? Oh my gosh. Now I'm just feeling like I'm not going to be thinking about this all night,

because so Larissa was internet acting with Sebastian, which she could have been running two accounts. Well, the thing with all these catfish people. I mean, again, it is so hard to get away with this stuff today. But yes, earlier when it was just MySpace and Facebook, these people would create like a thousand different identities and we'll get into it. But Neve give you the summary of how he started the show Caffish. But this is basically how it started is there's, he met somebody on the internet and that person had created a ton of other fake identities that he was also interacting with. That was pretty common back. Yeah. So I mean,

obviously that was it. I mean, unless Sebastian was real and him and Larissa were in cahoots, but like that seems odd. So it sounds like it was this girl, which, a lot of times you saw that on the show where it was like a different sex. You know what I mean? Like it was like a woman pretending to be a man or whatever. Okay. Let's get into him. Okay, guys, this is a guest that needs no introduction, but I'm going to give him one anyways.

I'm so excited. He is the creator and executive producer of the movie Catfish, which turned into the show Catfish on MTV now in its eighth season. He's the host of a podcast by the same name and the star and runner up of the movie. the most recent season of Dancing with the Stars. We love under the show, Neve Schulman. Yay! Yay! Dancer, Neve Schulman.

Yeah, I know. Honestly, I've always felt like a dancer. But now that I can sort of say that, it feels good. It feels good. Are you dancing around? Have you kept with it? You know, I regretfully, no. I have not since the final, but the finale, I should say.

I've been chiseling away at my wife in the hopes that maybe she'll go with me and take some ballroom dance classes. Because obviously it's fun dancing with a pro and Jen is amazing, but I'm not really dancing with her. She's just dancing around me. And I'm just trying to not screw up.

So I'd love to actually learn how to dance with my wife so that we could dance together. And I just think that would be super fun. Oh, a dance is so sexy. Like who doesn't want to, I want to dance somebody I'm going to get sexy with after. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I'm too jealous if I partner one on Dance with the Stars. Like it's just so intimate.

Well, that definitely comes up, right? And I asked Jen, I was like, how does people usually respond to this? And she said, generally it's actually the husbands whose wives go on the show who get the most jealous because like their wives are in the arms of this like, you know, super suave, sexy dancing guy. and he's like lifting and, you know, spinning and doing all the things that every guy wishes they could do with your wife, but can't. You know what I mean? And then when they're like awaiting the results, everybody's just like breathing heavy and they look like they're out to fuck.

Like I wouldn't, I mean, I'm not saying you, but like they're always so all over each other. I don't know why we're going down this road. And then Chrisel did that guy. Oh yeah, but now it wasn't her partner. Right, I know. Right. Right. Right.

That was weird. I mean, I'm not. You're like, I'm not on here to talk about this. That's a separate. That's a separate podcast. Okay, so let's talk about Catfish. Yes. Do you know, does Neve, our history with Catfish is that we watch it exclusively in hotels all the time. Oh, yeah.

Like, it's always on. It's a great hotel show for sure. Either you are Detective Stabler and Benson from Law & Order. As for you are with me in every hotel room. I love to hear that. And actually, my current apartment building, oh my God, I'm blanking on her name. one of the girls from Law & Order

lives in my building oh god well that's a blonde Stephanie Bobby plays ex-wise no I'll think of it it doesn't matter but Raina will be there

if she can figure out the address we can see your view kind of so if Raina hears there's somebody from Catfish and SVU in the building she's there I can't believe it's happening I'm going to be in your lobby in an hour I'm going to go

so we want to hear your origin story obviously we're going to talk about Catfish how you started it how people are still doing it how people can avoid getting catfish. But we asked our listeners what they want to know about getting catfish. And they submitted some really funny one-liners. We just wanted to bring them to you.

Do you want to read them? Yeah, sure. Okay. Someone said, oh my God, have you guys seen this show Catfish? There are so many episodes of Catfish. How do people not know they are getting Catfish?

Bitch who's out here not asking to FaceTime. Why do hot people use photos of other hot people to appear even hotter? Am I a catfish? Am I a catfish if I'm way hotter on Instagram than in real life, asking for a friend? If I thought he had a big dick, and then it turns out he did not have a big dick, did I get catfished? I have been getting mask fish. Oh, mask fished by men since March, which we've also talked about hat fishing.

Oh, wow. And then the last one is, girl, all I know is that I'm in love with Neve, thank you for this. So should I try and remember and answer all those questions now? No, we just wanted to like go to start with that. But yeah, why don't you? Those are great. Most people know your story. I mean, I remember seeing the movie, the doctor.

documentary. Well, it's interesting. I mean, the further we get now away from 2010, which is when the documentary came out, the fewer people I think associate me with getting catfish versus me with the show. And at the end, they're also just younger people who, you know, weren't at the age of watch, you know, they didn't see catfish when it came out. But they've grown up with the show and they don't know that I got catfish. Oh, wow. Yeah, I mean, even people who come on the show oftentimes don't realize that I'm the host because I got catfish and made a documentary about it. Now I'm doing it to help people similarly.

But anyway, so long story short, 2007, 2006, 2007, I befriended a young girl in Michigan who was an aspiring artist. she had seen my ballet photography, reached out through my space to say that she loved my photos and could she use them as the subject of her paintings, which of course was so adorable. And she actually made these really cute little watercolor paintings. And so we started this correspondence, which then led to a friendship with the mom and their whole family and eventually a flirtation with her older half-sister with whom I began to develop this, or, you know, kind of crush long distance thing. And after months and months and months of correspondence and trips planned that then didn't

happen or canceled or something came up one weekend, it was supposed to, whatever, eventually decided, okay, enough's enough. Like, I got to go meet this family and this girl who kind of might be my girlfriend if we actually meet. So we went and discovered that the entire family was not at all who they had, than themselves to be. And it was back to quite the opposite. And we made this documentary about it. And that was catfish and came out in 2010. And then subsequently, I got just inundated with stories and requests for help from people who similarly were in situations where they were talking

someone on the internet and that they had never met. And now all of a sudden, it occurred to them that maybe this person wasn't who they said they were. And so that's what we've been doing now, is helping people find out the truth since 2010. 2012, I guess, is when the show started. Yeah. I think there's like so, we're such a fan of the show. And as it's evolved, and there's obviously been more avenues

to figuring out who people are, but probably more avenues to hiding your identity, reaching out to people online. So like, has the show really changed? Because when you started the show, it was like people were creating all these Facebook identities. And it's like, it's easy to sort of figure that out today. It's interesting because, yes,

there's a prevalence of social media users now. I mean, everyone's online versus, you know, even back in 2007 when I first got catfetched, like everyone didn't have Instagram or I don't think Instagram happened yet, but like people were still all getting online. Now everyone's online. But despite that and despite the other tools that are now available to you to potentially research and find out if someone is telling you the truth, the way in which people fall into these relationships tends to be very,

much the same as it was back then. In a weird way, I think, people who are vulnerable to a stranger on the internet befriending them and engaging with them and eventually sort of falling for them are not a lot's changed in that regard. It's sort of a mixture of loneliness, insecurity, in some cases, isolation, and any number of other things that make you excited when a stranger says, hey, what's up? Love that pick on the internet. And then once you start engaging, if you're looking for love or if you're in need of affection or attention, like, it can happen. And it doesn't require any fancy technology or

even advanced tactics. It's just basic communication consistently with a little hint of romance or flirtation. And then, you know, it kind of runs away. I think what's so special about the show what you guys did is really try to help the catfisher because obviously there's a lot going on there and a lot of times they're younger people they're dealing with their shit too. So it was nice to see those people

turn their lives around in a way or you hope. But do you feel like, yes, there's a profile of someone that does that. Do you feel like it's sometimes just people do this for sport and they just want to fuck around and it's like they get off on it? I mean, what do you think of the profile of someone that's catfishing?

Right. I mean, you know, it's interesting because there are definitely different categories. I mean, and, you know, a lot of the times I'll get Google alerts because an article will come out about romance scams and they'll use the word catfish in the article. You know, for us and certainly for me, the intention of the relationship was never to extort money or gifts or any kind of financial gain. It was just for the human connection. And I think most of the episodes that we've made in the show are the same. It's about people who need to be seen, need to be heard. They need an outlet for expressing themselves. They don't feel seen in their lives or they're misunderstood or they can't express themselves fully in their community.

And they find someone on the internet who finally hears them and sees them and cares about them. And it's not about just messing around or fucking with someone or trying to get money from that. That does happen, of course. And we did an episode, I think last season where there was this guy who was pretending to be hot girls because he knew that he could start an only fans and like guys would send them money for pictures. And like he was like, this is just just a great way to pick up cash. It's pandemic. I'm broke. I don't have a job. Anyway, so there are people who do that for sure. But I really find that there's an overwhelming population of people young and old, but certainly at least in the

experience of the show younger who just want something in their life on a regular basis. that makes them feel good. And having this friend, having this mysterious, sort of exciting online lover, that's just for them. That doesn't know their friends and doesn't know their family and they can open up to and talk to, much like a therapist,

gives them a real sense of fulfillment and makes them feel important and loved. And, you know, I think that that's why these relationships happen a lot. Do you think that there, and I like that you're very empathetic, it sounds like to why people, start these situations. Do you think that there is sort of any forethought into like, how long can

I truly like make this go on? Or do you think like a lot? I mean, I guess it's a wide range. You tell me. It's weird. I mean, the catfish that are hardest for me to sympathize with are the ones who have been doing it for a long time to multiple people. Because like I can understand you're 17 or whatever and you live in a small town or a big city, but you're struggling with insecurity or you're trying to sort of come out about your sexuality, whatever it might be, any number of things that we all go through at some point in our lives. And you make a fake account because you're curious about talking to people

or expressing yourself in a certain way. And then one of those relationships gets away from you and turns into this thing and you don't know how to end it. Like, I get that. What I don't get are people who have done that and then seen the kind of heartache that that victim indoors and then just gone on to the next person and done it again. Yeah.

And then gone and done it again. And like, we've had people in the show who have been doing it for years and years and in some cases, decades who have talked to and catfished dozens of people. And to me, I find that a little bit harder to sympathize with because you've now chosen over and over again, knowing full well the results of your decision making to continue putting your own personal preferences and desires ahead of all these other people. And it's not an accident. It's not like a by mistake. It's very intentional. So there are definitely two sort of different types of people, I think. I still don't think that they're ever necessarily mean-spirited,

but there's a level of selfishness and a lack of empathy that goes into their decision-making that they should consider. Yeah. People ask, you know, why would someone let this happen? And it's like, you already answered it. You know, you really just want it so badly. It's like it's you could probably figure it out. Right.

But if someone's having a harder time, like they're like, I don't know, man. I feel like a normal, stable person, and I just don't know what's going on. I feel like, what are your first go-to steps to, like, avoid it, tips and tricks? I mean, we've watched the show, but maybe not everybody has watched the show. You know, we want to talk about the Google Image search because, like, is that a thing that you just like... You taught me that track. Listen, I love the reverse Google image. It's a good trick.

So a couple things. First of all, I don't completely condone Internet relationships, even with people that you don't know who you can't necessarily verify. I think that there is a lot of... good that can come from that. I think, you know, a lot of people find like-minded communities of people who, with whom they share important information and ideas and, like, that's great. And I even often compare these relationships, even when they seem completely absurd. Like, we even had a girl on the show who thought she was dating Chris Brown. I remember that one. Right. And so even though anyone you ask would tell you that's absolutely insane, your chance, the chances of

of that really being Chris Brown are, let's just call it one in a million. Even you could even call it one in a billion. My response is, well, how many people do you know that play the lottery every week? What are the chances of winning the lottery? Less than that. But people still do it. Because it gives them a little bit of a sense of what if and it's kind of fun. And even though it's harder in money that they could be saving and turn into as much money as they might, like, that's what they enjoy doing with their time and their money. So I just think it's interesting to think about that because a lot of people come up to me like, how could these people be so dumb or how could they be so blind or oblivious? But like, I don't think it's always that. I think it's almost a choice. It's like,

look, I know this is absurd and I don't necessarily believe that this is going to work out, but it's better than anything else I've got in my life. And what's the harm? Okay. But that said, if you are talking to someone and you have feelings for them and you're not sure that they're telling you the truth because they've avoided face-timing or canceled plans to meet up. A couple small things you can do, even though I know a lot of people say it feels creepy. Obviously, Google them. Not to say that you'll find anything crazy,

but you should find something. You know, if you know the person's name or in the town they live in and their job, or, you know, there's a good chance that they should have some information about them on the internet, whether it's on LinkedIn or whatever. If they say they work at Wendy's, call the Wendy's and just say, hey, is Josh there? You know, like, if Josh is your boyfriend,

it shouldn't be that weird that you call to say hi at work. Like, it's, I know it feels a little awkward, but like, worth it. Yeah, totally. But no one wants to do that because like they, they don't want to, oh, well, that would be so embarrassing for him or what if he's not there. And I just feel like an idiot, like, well, if he's not there because he doesn't work there, then you should know that. Show up at the Wendy's. Who doesn't want Wendy? Show up at the Wendy's. I mean, it's more embarrassing to, like, continue to date the person

and not dig a little bit. You know, I'd rather make the call. Now, obviously, if they don't live close enough that you could just drop by, you know, there are websites that you can pay to use, and it's not that expensive. Like, I think for 30 bucks, you can run someone's phone number.

It might even be less than that, or you might have to subscribe and then you can cancel it, whatever. Worth it. Run the phone number. and sometimes you get results on one website and you don't on another. So it does help to do at least on two different websites. Obviously, you can do a reverse image search on,

just go to images.gov.com and just click and drag the picture into the search bar. Again, not always 100% guaranteed to work, but if the pictures you're looking at are of some guy who's on a Tumblr page called like light skin hot guy abs, abs, it could show up. Okay. Let me ask you about reverse Google image search. If it's a private Instagram account and someone's sending you photos,

will that get a hit? I don't think so. Okay. I don't think it even finds things on public Instagram pages weirdly. Okay. It'll find like a love shot. Well, you know what it will find though? It will find like the thumbnail.

So like if the person's Instagram account thumbnail is the picture, that gets picked up because like there are all these weird Instagram like copycats. sites called like pictogram or whatever where they basically just like recycle Instagram comments. And I don't know. Anyway, it's a weird, dark, strange, murky place. But like, yeah, image church not always guaranteed to work.

So that's why it's good to do all these things. But like the best thing you can do is if they have a Facebook page or an Instagram, go through the comments. Are the people leaving comments just saying hard eyes, fire like eggplants? Or are they like writing stuff? like, oh my God, so fun. Like, I can't wait to see you next week or say how to your cousin. Like, is it, are they personalized?

And then if you really do want to, again, make sure, like, message one or two of them and just say, hey, how do you know Josh? Like, he's my boyfriend and see what they say. Yeah. If all of them say, like, oh, I don't really know him. I just know him on the internet. That could be an indication that like you're one of the many people who think they know Josh, but doesn't. Also, if it's Josh as your boyfriend, you should know his last name and you should know all these things. Like, I'm just, I'm, it's scary out for, you know, for anybody, but especially for women.

Like, if I'm ever going to meet somebody, I know their last name. I've looked them up on LinkedIn. You know, like, it's that fear of, you're right. They're, they're wanting to win the lottery. They're wanting to, like, not know the truth, you know. So it's more like you're not asking because if you ask somebody their last name and where they work, before they want to meet you in person and they are weird about telling you, like, there's first red flag.

Yeah. I know. And asking those questions, I think it's not weird. I think you're saying people get tripped up because it's embarrassing to do these things. But like at the end of the day, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying to somebody, listen, you're a stranger I met on the internet. Of course I did some due diligence. Well, right.

But what happens is the relationship starts just as like a fun friendship correspondence, right? And then it becomes this like trusted confidant friendship. And at that point for you to say, oh, I know we've opened up to each other and talked about personal stuff. but like I don't really know if I can trust you or if I believe that you are who you say you are, then it almost feels like a betrayal. Right. And when people and when people do say it, the catfish often says, how could you? They gaslight you.

How could you? How could, yeah, the catfish also often uses the tactic of saying, I can't believe you don't trust me and that you would question me about like this thing. I'm so hurt. And then the victim or the hopeful as we call them feels bad because then, you know, like, oh, I didn't mean to hurt your feet. feelings. Of course I believe you. I didn't, you know, and then you backpedal and you're like, no, no, no, I do believe you. And then you stop asking because you feel you don't want to

upset them again. Like, it's a, it's this thing that we've seen happen a lot. A lot of people said as, how do I confront someone? Can I ever forgive them? If I really actually do a feelings for this person, can I move past this? What are your like thoughts on that? I mean, look, it's tough because I think the success of these online long distance digital relationships has a lot to do with the mystery of them. and the compartmentalization of it, this idea that you can have this person who exists essentially just in your head and heart, right?

That you don't have to interact with them in the real world. There's no expectations of you. You don't have to share your bed or your bathroom with them, but you wake up to a text every morning and you get a text every night. Again, it's this private relationship that you're having that most people don't even nearly tell their friends or family about. And so it's tough because, you know,

you don't want to lose that. But if you're feeling like you have sort of hit a wall and you can't get past or through it because this person's on avoiding certain things or won't face time or keeps cancelling or standing you up and you realize you need to do something, obviously the first thing you should do is write in to catfish. Send an email to catfishneve at gmail.com.

And maybe you'll win the lottery and get on the show. Right. We need stories. Literally, we are like, we are looking for stories right now. Maybe I should save my story. I'm going to tell you a fucking crazy story. Okay.

We want you to finish. Maybe you should. But I'll tell you, you see what thing. But I think you have to, you have to force yourself to have a, you have to have enough respect for yourself to do what's right for you.

And that doesn't mean that you have to be mean about it. But I think you have, as hard as it is, you have to say, look, Josh, I really love talking to you. I've been so, this has been so great, but I can't keep talking to you if, if you can't do this thing. And that's just because that's what I need. And if we're in a relationship and you really love me, then you would understand that. So think about that. Mull it over, but like, if you don't, if I don't hear back from you or if you can't face time this week or whatever the deadlines

timeframe is, like, then I need to stop talking to you. Right. And that's hard, that's hard because I, you don't want to give up Josh. But like, if Josh is legit and, and cares about you, that should be easy for him. Also, Josh works at Wendy's. Like, you can do better. I mean, I think also, like, I have a girlfriend, and this is not your traditional catfish. You know, you were saying the word gets thrown around and misused. But she was just, she was dating a guy.

She was younger. She was in her early 20s. He was married with kids and would always just, you know, his house was getting renovated. So they had to meet in a hotel and they would go on trips and all the stuff. And she, you know, she feels like she would have never fallen this for this today as in, you know, in her like the late 30s. But she just, every time. she asked even the smallest bit of, hey, I just think it's weird. Like, why have I, you know,

I think she one day said, was like, if you don't take me to your house, I can't date you anymore. And he flipped out and was like, how dare you not trust me or my girlfriend? And she actually finally sat next to a PI on a plane. They were drinking. She started talking about her relationship and how she had doubts. And he was like, I can find this out for you in five minutes. And they landed and he ran a check. He was married with kids. She sent her his address and her and her friend drove by the house and saw him come out of his house with his wife and his kids. And so, I mean, and then she confronted him in the immediate confrontation. She was like, meet me at this place.

And he still tried to say it's not true. And she was like, oh, that's, you know. But it's like, I just say that's the gaslighting of like, you're crazy. How dare you not trust me? Well, and not just gaslighting, but also like people lie. You don't have to go on the internet to get to get lied to. You know, I mean, like, it's not. it's not an internet phenomenon that people are lying.

I think you mean men and bars all the time. They'll lie about their income, what they do for living. Do they have a wife? Do they have kids? And those things, I think, are a little easier to check. There's so many public records, wedding registries, kids, registries. We did an episode on stocking a few weeks ago, so we're not going to be super redundant.

Look, the reality is if you want to find out, there's always a way. But a lot of people subconsciously or consciously prefer not to find out because then their perfect boyfriend. goes away or their perfect girlfriend or whatever it is. So, like, you know, you just have to consider how much are you allowing this and how much are you, in many cases, participating in this make believe. When I was a kid and my parents finally told me my imaginary friend wasn't real, it was devastating.

And they had like, they had like really gas-cats. Oh, wow. And they had like bought me gifts from her. And then I feel like they were finally like, okay, we got to tell Ashley Norka isn't real. Norca. That was her name. How about just hearing about Norka? And then like, I finally was like, I feel like, I feel like,

I always sort of knew. Like, it was a whole thing that my parents, it was like, did you see her? You know what? Wait, you know what you should do now is you should, you should make an Instagram account for Norka and friend your parents. And don't say anything to them. Just have them be like, wait a second. Is this, wait, is Norka real?

Or I'm going to do some real fucked up shit and be like, Norca found out she's my dad's kid and she went on 23 and me or whatever and that's her dad. Oh my God. That's just like, I'm going to go really hard. Email from 23 to me. That's just like, you have a new DNA match. Anyway, that would be great. Well, this is what I'm doing for the rest of the year.

This is going to be your parents' Christmas gift. Neve, have you seen anything crazy, whether it's changed since 2012 or, like, are you ever shocked anymore? Like, do you have anything in recent memory that was like this person went above and beyond in the catfishing? Yeah, I think the thing that shocked me more recently was we didn't, I think this was again, this was just last season, the season that just aired. We had an episode where this guy.

who is now in a very serious relationship and has a daughter with this girl. But years ago, when he was a teenager, he had fallen in love for the first time with this girl on the internet. And they'd corresponded for about two years, I think. And then she just, she broke his heart and started dating some other guy. And he'd just been crushed. Never met her. And then periodically, I think he would try to find, like she would pop up, whatever. She kind of lingered in his life for years, even up until the present.

And it was actually his girlfriend who wrote in which like, look, I need my boyfriend to stop wondering if that was ever, if that girl was ever real. Because like he can't get rid of it. Like she's in his head. Even though he's in love with me and we're very happy. Like it's this thing and it's bothering me as his girlfriend and like I need it done. So we did what we do. And we discovered that the girl in the pictures was actually real. And her name was her name.

But that it had been her mom who had been using. photos of her daughter who had even gone into her daughter's phone when she was sleeping and taken like sexy selfies off of it that she had taken to send to her boyfriend at the time and had talked to this like 16 17 year old kid for years. Oh my God. It was really weird. And, you know, and the woman's obviously doesn't do it anymore and she's been to a therapist since.

But like, you know, borderline, if not just blatantly criminal for, you know, a 30s, late 30s, 40-year-old some woman to be talking to someone underage and sending pictures of their daughter, which is also super weird. Like the privacy invasion too on top of it. And the weirdest thing was that the daughter had found out, confronted her mom about it. They had had this weird falling out, but they'd since repaired themselves. And she was actually the one who like helped us figure it out. The daughter. We're right. Because we found the daughter on the internet. We was like, oh, oh, she looks like she's married. We reached out. And she's like, okay, oh, my God, like, I'll help you find out the truth. And then she brought her mom on. We were like, what? Anyway,

Had her mom done this to a bunch of different guys? Or this was just one, oh, wow. Oh, my gosh, with the daughter's picks? Like, yeah. Oh, my gosh. So you can imagine how like surprised, gross out and furious the daughter was when she got at her mom. Yeah, super, super, super.

That is wild. That was pretty shocking. Okay. Wow. I don't know. I feel like that takes the cake. You can top that, Eve? Do you just feel, do you feel like people are changing their tactics and getting like

slicker with the catfishing or, I mean, just kind of. if it's all kind of the same? Not really. I mean, because there are so many ways now, there are definitely ways now that you can be more convincing. Like, you can use the filter now to like literally put a girl's face on your face. Wow. Oh, right.

Just technology, yeah. Yeah, there's definitely more, like, you could be more specific. But again, the weird thing about at least the victims of catfish who sort of fall into the category that we feature on the show, the less they get, the more they want. If you're just a little profile picture and an occasional text here and there, and the less someone gets, like, the more curious and excited they are to get more and they'll wait around and they'll engage and it's crazy, but that's how it works. I mean, I guess it's like a good, if you wanted to be a catfish, that's the tactic you use

because today I think there's more and more avenues to find out who somebody is. Like you said, if you can't find somebody on the internet, they probably aren't real at this point. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to make a sweeping statement like that, obviously. I do think that it's so interesting. You can be corresponding with someone for months or years and never even talk on the phone. And when I ask people,

haven't you asked to FaceTime? A lot of the time, people will say that they haven't even asked to FaceTime because they don't want to FaceTime because FaceTiming is awkward. Then you have to look at the person and deal with those awkward silences. And young people, I mean, everybody is,

but I've heard from a lot of young people that they're insecure and they don't love the way they look. And so it's just easier and safer. to just text. Yeah, and the profile of someone that is insecure, then of course they don't want to FaceTime. Like they're not, exactly, exactly. We got, someone asked, I mean, people asked us like,

how do you forgive this person? How do you forgive yourself? I mean, you know, I think people really beat themselves up. Do you guys see that a lot? I mean, yeah, I think there's always, you know, similar to the sort of seven stages of grief, right? Is that the, that's the thing, right? Yeah, five stages.

Five stages? Yeah. I think there's a sort of similar stages of getting catfished. And, you know, the first one's usually a surprise and then embarrassment. And then just sort of a feeling of how could I be so naive and kind of questioning yourself and others, of course, as well, depending on who and what situation is. But I try really hard in the sort of aftermath of helping these people deal with finding out the truth, just to remind them that, A, like, it's never a bad thing if someone

lies to you, right? Like, you haven't done anything wrong. You got lied to. And being a trusting open person is also a good thing. And sure, yeah, moving forward, you'll hopefully employ some tools and tactics and maybe have a little bit more of a defense mechanism up. But don't change that you are an open-hearted person because that's that's a great trait um to have and then i also do my best to sort of remind them that this experience despite it feeling shitty right now is going to be a sort of building block for your personality and it can it can and will potentially become something that makes you more interesting and you know gives you something to talk about and something to offer as a person in conversation and will inform your decision-making for the

better for the rest of your life. So like, even though it stings right now, like, it's certainly in my case, and I think in many other cases, if you can look at it, is it a learning experience and as something that actually is building your character? I think it can be a really positive experience. I love that. I think that's great. I love that you said that because the girl that sent the story, the intro of her email was like, I've been listening to girls for three years. And when you ask for catfish stories, I knew my time had come. Like, she's been sitting on this. Like, it was part of her story.

Like, she is a, you know, she got to share it on this podcast. She loves it. We read it. And, you know, it's just kind of, you're right. I mean, I think of that. Every time I go on a bad day, it's like, well, this is just a story. You know, we used on this podcast. Right. I think it can be something you really beat yourself up for.

I recently was personally catfish for like 12 hours. And I was even like so, I mean, Ashley knows, like I spent days beating myself up for like, how could I even let this go on for 12 hours? How did you tell the story? Yeah, I'm going to tell the story. I got catfish a, again. after I got catfish. No.

I did. Not a romantic one, but like, like, like, fully, we did an episode. We did a whole special about it. Anyway, how did I know. Tell us your. We saw it.

We totally saw it. We probably saw it like a, I'm such a stand. I'm not a Marriott somewhere. I will tell you the story, but how did you meet your wife? Do you guys meet online? I technically, yeah.

I found her Instagram account and started following her. And then months later discovered she had been following me, and so I just de-emned her. That's funny. It's like, it's a meme for Neve is like, don't meet people online.

Awesome to know. Yeah, totally. All right. I'm finding this text to send to read to you. Yeah, so we'll end with this. Raina's going to tell you her story.

And it's, I can't wait to hear what you think. I, you know, have my own thoughts, but, by the way, so while you're looking,

the only thing I want to say about what we were just talking about is like, even even though, yeah, getting, no one wants to get catfish, right?

If you consider it a relationship, right, every relationship, you know, with the exception of a handful of people who fall in love in high school and are married and die in their 80s together, right? Every relationship has a start, beginning and an end. And some are longer than others, some are better than others, some end nicely, some end nicely. But you need all those failed relationships in order to hopefully finally get into the one that you're meant to be in. And so I really think that like even getting catfish, even as weird and awkward and uncomfortable and on, and, and. you know, crappy as that can be,

is still a super important experience that you need in order to get you that much closer to being ready and the person you need to be to, like, find the right person. I love that, and that's your story. It worked for you. Yeah, exactly. No, thank you for, I love that. That's a great way to.

Maybe you should let yourself get catfish, start an empire. Yeah. How many episodes are you done of catfish? I feel like you have enough. Do you know the number? We were just talking about it. I think we're at like 170 now. Yeah, okay.

I think. Somewhere in that area. That's a good show. It's just like I turn on the TV in a hotel. It's like ridiculousness and catfish. I'm like, here's fine. I know. I actually just, yeah, I actually just looked at like a chart. Someone made a like a third. Yeah, it's all.

Yeah, you saw that. It's all ridiculousness and catfish is in there a couple times. I want to know what's going on with that. But that's a story for a different time. Okay, Rayna. There's so many twists and turns. I'm like nervous, but I want to like shorten this up for you. So I woke up one morning to a text in my phone.

There was four text messages. I had a free day. A unknown number. Unknown number. Don't know the phone number. And it says, sorry for the late text. Just wanted to say hi.

Happy Monday. I'm finally back in the U.S. Safe, healthy, figuring out what I'm going to do this week. Wish I could cuddle you instead. I'll call tomorrow once I get settled. Hopefully you had a wonderful weekend. He sends a photo of himself with a dog. It's a cute guy that's like my age with the dog.

He's like, I can't believe you fell for this. No, I can't. The next text says, oh shit, it's certainly possible. I've reached an incorrect number by mistake. Brief airport encounter. It's certainly possible. Brief airport encounter overseas.

Perhaps I was given the wrong number. This is, he tells me his name. I asked who this is. You still hadn't responded to... It's four text messages. Oh, that's all... You woke up to that, right? I wake up to like four back-to-back text.

This guy, like a pretty intimate text message, a photo of a cute guy, and then he's like, oh, shit, I think it's a darn number. So I'm like, all right, I have a day. This is what I'm doing today. I was like so excited to tell Ashley. But I was like, I'm checking into this.

I'm checking into it. So I respond and I just said, because it's clear that this guy had like a one-night stand with somebody at an airport. And I was like, I got to know the story. So I was like, that's a pretty intimate text message to send to a stranger. But yes, you have reached the wrong person.

So we start chitchatting throughout the day. This guy is like, he seemed like super normal. And he was funny. He was like, have I at least reached a female? Are you age appropriate? What's your social security number? Right. What's your routing number? Right. Whatever. I couldn't resist. It was a cute guy with the dog. So I was like, no, no, I'm a girl. I live in New York City. I'm age appropriate. We like, joke back and forth. Yeah, he said, are you single? Is that it? Can I flirt with you? Is that fine? I was like, yeah, sure. No, we deal. This is the dream. This is literally like the best. He sends me a photo of himself holding this baby. It's the cutest guy. I'm like, holy shit. Ashley, I'm in love. This guy is so funny. I'm telling them the most fucked up jokes.

We just joke back and he's like, can I see a photo of you? So I'm like, what do I have to lose? So I send him my Instagram account and I was like, enjoy stalking me. Whatever. I'm like a public person. I don't care. So we talk throughout the day. We like trade all these different.

I don't tell many information about myself. I'm like, I'm not going to tell this person anything personally you couldn't find on the internet five seconds. But I enjoyed talking to him. I'm like, I guess there's some possibility that this is a real person. He tells me what he does for a living, where he lives. He's peppering in all this information throughout the day. And throughout the day, I'm trying to figure,

out who this is. So he sends me... No image search. Well, he sends me a couple photos. I reverse image search the photos. No hits. Throughout the day, he tells me where he went to school, where he grew up, he tells me he has a couple sisters. He tells me what he does for a living. It's a government job

that he would not have a public profile if he has this, actually has this. So a very classic, you know, I am not for the government. But then he threw in, I'm also a personal trainer on the side. I'm like, no government employee has time to work at the LA fitness training people.

Well, pandemic, you know? You might have a side hustle. Everyone's working from home, right? So at this point, I'm like so deep in this. I'm like, I like talk to this guy. Now he's like sex-deak with me a little bit. I'm like, I've got to figure out his person.

Oh, my God. So I'm looking up all this information. I'm looking up like where he went to college. I'm looking at the alumni association. I'm reversed searching the phone number. I can't find it. I look up what he says he does for a living. There should be some hit

With that, I knew how old he was. You know it's city, said he claimed to be in. So this goes on throughout the day. He sends me a sexy pick. Neve, it is a, I can't even,

it is like you Googled hot body giant dick, and that's what came up. It is washboard abs and a 10-inch cock. Like, it's just like not, I saw that picture. That was a smoking gun for me. She showed me the dick, I was like,

that's not a, that's a fake person. I keep telling you, I'm like this crazy story. you have a new boyfriend. It's so great. I have two girlfriends on the case. Everyone's looking this up.

They're looking up the alumni association. We can't find out who he is. And so how did I shut this down? Well, no, Brena, you also, she had a friend call the number. Oh, so I had a friend call the number. She did just like a Google phone number. She calls the number. It's not a real phone number.

It was a Google phone number. It's a voice app, right? Yeah. Yes. Also, okay, a couple things. The pictures, when we really started to zoom in, it looked like it could be a different guy. Like eyebrows a little bit different.

Like it just, the pictures look different. Hairline was different. And then the other smoking gun was that, well, all of it, first of all. But like that he sent the first text and then. Wait, wait, don't tell you yet. Don't tell him yet. Okay, okay. So there was a lot of smoking guns throughout the day.

And I was like, there's no footprint on this person on the internet. We can't find him anywhere. Phone number is fake. And I said to him, I like, he was like asking for texts. I'm like, I can't send you anything. So I'm looking at my phone and it like occurs to me. I never checked the timestamps on the text messages. So I scroll over

exactly when he sent the text the first four in the morning. He sent me that like good morning with the dog photo and four minutes later he said I've reached the wrong person and I never checked the time. You know what I mean? Nobody would have thought that they reached the wrong person in four minutes. Like if you don't get a no response

and you're like, wait, is this the wrong number? That's so weird. That's not a thing that, you know, someone used. Yeah, sure. I thought it was. I mean... To me that's the cranes. I agree with you. I agree with you. I mean, four minutes obviously can feel like a very long time if you think you're texting someone that you just like left in bed. You know what I mean?

But also, yes, agreed. Also, how would he know he texts the wrong number? That's what I'm, but that's what I'm saying. Like, he, like, the story was that he like was on a layover and fuck some girl in an airport. Obviously, the kind of guy you want to be with. That's what I'm saying. Like, it sounds like a freak. I didn't hate it.

Also, like, we do that, you know, we talk about dating and sex for a living. like Rayna was like, let me hear the story. But like, then she just engaged all day. I haven't know what happened. And I also did not tell this person anything about myself. So he has no, no, no. It was fun. I asked him for his social media.

I was like, you know, my Instagram. Give me your Instagram. And he was like, oh, you know, because of what I do for a living. I can't give it to you. I don't. And I said, I was trying to find him on the internet. He was like, I don't have any public profile. So the net, so he just, he kept like following up and following up.

And it got like, it escalated to him like, like really sexting and me just like really not responding. So the next day, he said, like, did I say something wrong? So I just hit him with a text and it said, like, hey, I can't verify who you are. It's been nice chatting with you, but, you know, can't keep interacting with somebody. Hope you understand. And he wrote me back immediately and he got, like, pretty aggressive. And he was like, I don't understand.

I can't believe you're ghosting out of this. I can't believe that you did this. You won't even give me a reason. So I blocked the phone number. And that's the end of the interaction. But I did. I really, like, beat myself up for days. is like, how can I let this go on?

Well, yeah, I mean, the weird thing is, like, did he know who you were? So that's what we were wondering. Raina was, like, worried, like, this is a stalker. But then I just thought, like, we see so much weird behavior from everybody, but, you know, a lot for men that just do weird stuff to get themselves off.

Like, it felt like maybe he just, that's what he was going to do that day, you know? Like, and he picked a number, and it just so happened to be, like, a person in the personality. Yeah. Yeah, I think that I was really scared, like, do I have a stalker? It really frightened me.

I also told myself that there is a, there's a big range between somebody's sort of like catfishing on your phone and showing up with your home and harming you. You never know. I mean, I don't want to make blanket statements about safety. You know, you should always be safe. I just thought this was like a silly fun thing I was going to do throughout the day. I blocked the phone number. I do think by how fast he just went away,

probably this was just like, he just accidentally hit on a person that happened to have some notoriety or something. Well, and or he's fishing for sexy photos and then he turns around and uses them to blackmail you. That's, I thought that too. And I thought it could be even we, Raina doesn't think this, but me and another girlfriend of ours thought it could be a girl. Like it could easily be a girl that hates us that once thought she could maybe get nudes or like, you know, a sexy video from you and put it on the internet, you know? Uh-huh. Yeah.

I mean, I would never be stupid enough to send photos, but we never figured out who this was. We used every means that we could to try to. figure it out. Are we sure it wasn't Norka? God damn it. I got us a callback of the day. I opened up to you, Neve. No. I thought I knew everything about her and she just out of here telling you secrets about her life. But that was my cafe story. I don't know if there would have been like you tell me. Is there any other way I could have figured out who this person was?

I feel like I went down every avenue. No, you, yeah, no, you did the right thing. Obviously it's easier for people like me or you. I don't know what you're following online is, but like, you could always post a picture. Tweet a picture. No, no, just like, tweet. Who is this? No, because, like, it's amazing how if the guy's a model and, you know, he's online somewhere, and even if you have a thousand followers, like, you'd be amazed how quickly people can.

A hundred percent. You know, six degrees of separation. It's like, oh, yeah, I think I do. Like, like, it's amazing. So there's always that option. I mean, it's a little weird to post a picture on your social media and be like, hey, does anyone know who this is? If I felt super unsafe, I might.

you know, I would want to consult somebody first. I don't know, like, what. Right. I mean, it wouldn't get you any closer to finding out who you were talking to, but it might help you discover that you're not talking to the guy, the pictures. Yeah. Well, the pictures were really interesting, like she said, because they do not appear to be the same man, like variations on different.

But you're not looking at his face. He sent a bunch of phone. There was like before. Yeah, before that. But then I was also like, that body is not what that goes with that face. But I also think just in general, at least in my years of dating and stalking, If you have their first last name and their college, it something pulls up. Like, even if it is like Matt Johnson and he went to UCLA, like, you'll at least find that.

You'll find that there's 20 of them. But like she had his alleged first and last name and actually where he went to school. And it's a smaller school that he said. So anyway, I mean, I didn't think this was real, but we just wanted to share with you. It's a good example of, like I said, one of the types of, and I would call that probably probably more of like a romance scam. Uh-huh. He did get kind of pissed. That guy got kind of pissed.

It scared me a little bit, but I understand what you're saying is that some people's reaction is to gaslight you and be like, out, would you do this? You know? I sent you my dick. Well, and then become manipulative and make you feel bad. And then you keep you stay in. You keep talking to them.

And then again, he picked the wrong girl on that one. Right. Well, I'm glad to hear that you avoided giving him any information or allowing it to go on any longer than it did. Thank you. I just ought to be a funny story to tell Ashley. I was just like, this is what I'm doing today. And then we were like, wait, let's touch base with me.

because we've been trying to get you on the show for a while, but you were, like, having kids and whatever. So you were busy. There was a pandemic, yeah. In the pandemic, yeah. But thank you so much for this. Do you have any... Hey, this is great.

Do you think you have any, like, parting words you didn't get out? Well, no, yeah. I mean, just because we're on a podcast, so we have now converted, and we're releasing new episodes every week, catfish to a podcast. Okay. And so if you're new to catfish, if you haven't seen the show, or if you've seen it a few times,

or if you just love listening to podcasts, The Catfish podcast is really interesting. And I actually think in a weird way, it's not better than the show. But because these relationships exist in this sort of ether of mystery, listening to the show allows your imagination to sort of paint the picture much in the way that being in the relationship does because you have less information. So it's kind of fun because you can imagine what these people look like and where we are and kind of get a little bit closer to the feeling and the texture

of the relationship as it happened than you can when you actually just see it. So anyway, if you're looking for some more catfish in your ears, check out the Catfish podcast. Okay, okay. Anything else you want to plug? I mean, everybody knows what you do, but just you want Instagram followers?

You want OnlyFans? Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. They're all the same, just Neve Shulman. I mean, the only other thing I would say is just to promote people listening to each other more. I think one of the main reasons people get catfish is because they don't feel like they have anyone who cares enough to listen to them and ask them how they're feeling. So I think if we always do a better job of checking in with each other and asking someone how they feel, not because we feel like we should and not because we all actually want to tell them how we feel, but just to let

them tell us how they're feeling, we all be better off. Thank you for that. Well, thank you so much, Neve, for joining us. And everybody go listen to the catfish podcast, watch the show, all the things. This was so great. Thank you so much. Yeah. Bye. All right, guys. Well, hope you enjoyed. How do you feel, Raina?

Oh, great. This was an amazing interview. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com. Girls Got to Eat Podcast. and Instagram.

Ash Hess, reina. dot Greenberg on Instagram, Girls underscore Got to Eat on Twitter and YouTube. com slash Girls Got to Eat. And we will see you next week. Thanks, guys. Have a good week. Bye.