Girls Gotta Eat - Dating with ADHD feat. Author Emily Farris

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

We loved our conversation with Emily Farris, author of I'll Just Be Five More Minutes, about being diagnosed with ADHD at 35 and how it has impacted her life, especially in relationships. She shares her story of feeling different growing up and what brought her to getting a diagnosis, how she manages it now, dating with ADHD, social anxiety and drinking, hyper fixation and time blindness (ahem, chronically late people), the issues that arose in her marriage, postpartum anxiety, and her decision to get divorced. We also chat about dating someone who is neurodivergent, and the types of people who are best equipped (and worst equipped) to enter into that relationship dynamic. Before Emily joins us, Rayna has been making men feel needed, and we share the whole story of finding Ashley's wedding dress. Enjoy! Follow Emily on Instagram @thatemilyfarris, read her book I'll Just Be Five More Minutes, follow her Substack, and check out her website for more. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at https://betterhelp.com/gge. Hungryroot: Get 40% off your first delivery and free item in every box for life at https://hungryroot.com/GGE with code GGE. Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at http://article.com/gge. Boll & Branch: Get 20% off at https://bollandbranch.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you can't have a sense of humor about your relationship and about your partner, do not date a person with ADHD. This podcast is a dear media production. Hi guys. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Still coughing. My back is broken now.

Oh, you got your back. Blown up. You blew your own back out. I really did. I'm really paying for my mistakes. Yeah. I really have a sciatic nerve damage. Oh my God.

Damage. Diagia. Damage is a leap. I picked up a heavy plant and I hurt myself. That plant did all. that heavy. I think that three of them. Okay.

Not at the same time though. It was the third. There's one on each arm. You're like, I'm so strong. Look at me go. Yeah, I've just, you got to, I'm getting older. You got to stretch. You do have to stretch.

Well, speaking of working out and stretching, so last night I did my first 30 minute Peloton back from being sick. I've been like easing back in with 20s and 15. I'm still like, I'm still coughing stuff up. Like, this flu. I got really tried to live. I have long flu. And I started taking this class.

I chose it because the playlist was second to none. Hip-hop heroines. And it was just like Lil Kim and Nikki Minaj and Saul and Peppa. Oh, this is fine. Debrat. This is really fine. So I'm like, okay, so I start taking this class. And I'm like, is this English?

So you didn't recognize the songs or the songs were in English. The songs were the bangers I know and love. The instructor. Oh, Camilla. Camilla speaks English. So I text Taylor. I go on the bike. I'm like, am I having a stroke?

I'm stroking out. I text Taylor. I said, have you ever taken Cliff? I was like, I literally can't tell if he's speaking English. And I'm watching it. I'm like doing the class. I'm like, I'm hearing English words. And I'm like, but the rest of it, it sounds German.

And so I'm like, I'm not okay. Something's wrong with me. And I'm like, yeah, I think I have seen German on here before. So then I really am like. You have? Yeah. Okay. So then I'm like, this class is in German.

Like, he's saying some, he is saying some words that are English. Like, he, there are a few, like, workout type words that threw me because they're English words. Or he's saying the name of the artist. Or he's saying slang terms. Like, it got me enough minutes in where I'm like, this is English and I'm just not okay. Yeah. And so finally I'm like, okay, this class is in German. I'm going to see it through.

German. German. German. I'm like, I have to see this class through. You cherry picked German. I would not, I wouldn't know what German is. No, but then I had like a memory unlocked that it said German. Sometimes they say.

I've never seen this. I've only seen classes in Spanish. Wait, was this class in German? Okay. Camilla Vermont. Thank God. Cliff Dwanger. It says German.

I have never seen this in my life. He's not giving German. So, Frida, the thing that I like now is it used to be. in Palatine, you could choose, like, more music or more instructor. Yeah. And now it has a slider. You can really customize it. So I just turned it all the way down.

I want Alex's voice all the way up. Cody all the way up. So I brought it all the way down where I could barely hear it. No offense, Cliff. And just played my music and just watch the numbers and like, God, I mean, I'm doing this so many times I know what's happening and I can figure it out. And I had like a really great workout. I really pushed myself.

And I was like, I had to use this playlist. Like, you know, it's got the jump off and none of your business. I've just, I didn't know that they did. did that like straight up. Camilla Ramon, I take her classes because I like Latin playlist. She does all Latin playlist and she speaks Spanish sometimes. Oh, sometimes. Yeah, because I've taken English speaking classes of hers too. Yes. But the way. German would come out of nowhere for me. But you, I would be stroking out. But you know me like, sometimes I'm not so good at picking up on English. Like I started watching TV with captions during Bridgeton season one.

And I was like, I know they're speaking English, but I'm having a hard time. You told me to watch Normal people? Normal people. Try to watch that without captions. I dare you. You know, I was able to really to manage girls. But you told me about dairy girls.

I was like, right, I can't watch this. Oh, it's unwatchable without the captions. We have to. People wasn't a struggle for me, but dairy girls, I was like, this is not English. Normal people was the first time I ever was like,

I can't get through 20 minutes without 10 minutes, two minutes. Do you think people from the UK or Ireland watch someone like, Parker Posey on White Lotus and they're like, I don't know that English. I think so. Like when I think about like us not understanding English in certain dialects, I think of what would be the inverse and it would be like deep south. Yeah, deep south. Sometimes I don't even understand people. I don't either. Like it's a it's a hard dialect to understand because they

add six vowels to every single word. It's adorable. But anyway, I speak German now. I told you what I did with that guy who was Irish and I understood like every other sentence and I was already blacked out and I was just like I am I feel like my biggest stroke no when we were at that bar in the ned in London and you were like making out with someone every hour sorry every 20 minutes those guys were really like cockney accent and it was so loud there was a live band and we were drinking I'm just smiling and nodding I don't know and they are speaking true English full sentences in England and you're you just have to be like totally we're in England and I can't Yeah, it's an un-understandable accent like Parker Posey.

That's a good call. Okay. Tsunami. You want to live in Taiwan? She didn't know where she was. My la Razepan? Her daughter goes, what? Now this is dated.

We should have talked about on Thursday. You want to live in Taiwan? I spit my beer out. You don't know where you are. Wait, also, do you know this? I actually should have talked to your fiancee about this. Your current fiance. That's it today.

That's going to happen in this interview. Well, it's going to happen for the next nine months. And then I'm going to call him your current husband for the next 30 years. He was at the previous one, but he won't be the last one. Oh, my gosh. Did you know that the dad in White Lotus is Lucius Malphoy? Did your fiance have to tell you that? Or did you see it on me?

I wish this was on a snack. But it's fine. We'll talk about White Lotus here. I did not know who Lucius Malphoi was. And so I was seeing memes from two weeks ago now that said, didn't expect to see Lucius Malfoy's dick or something like that. And so I was like, okay, who was Lucius Malfoy? And I googled it and I saw who it was.

Is it Harry Potter? The way you say Lucius, Lucius, Lucius? Wait, I'm getting, where am I getting Lucius from? Lucius? It sounds nice in your mouth. I think it's from. Lucius. I swear to God, it's from the best man.

It sounds nice. I like watching it come out of your mouth. It's Lucius. Yes. Okay. I was thinking of Terrence Howard in the best man. Lucius is Terrence Howard's name and empire, that show. Okay.

So it's Lucius. Lucy's. That's the white people. You hit it hard. Yeah. That's the British. You hit those back. You hit them hard.

So I looked it up and then I was able to tell my current fiancee about the Lucius Malfoy's dick and he laughed. He hadn't seen the meme. He's your Potterhead or whatever. That's the only thing we talk about it. It's only private. conversations we have. You know what's like weird to talk to your friends partners privately? Like if one of my friends partners texted me, it better be because you want to propose. Like we're not

talking to each other. Yeah, no. But I'm going to make rain a playlist. I was like the fuck you are. Yeah, I'm with you. I better be on that too. It better be called I made this for Ashley if you're sharing it with somebody else. If one of my friends' partners reached out to me, jail. It's weird. That's crazy to me. You better be planning their birthday. party or a proposal or don't talk to me. No, I think even like your ex, like didn't I put him on a show of mine, but I kept you on the text.

Even for work reasons. What if I would have messaged him? Like, here's your set time. Raina can know this. Raina will tell you your set time. She will too. None of my friends' partners do I speak to. Raina, if we don't talk about these partners.

An emergency. Can you partner. Okay, but I got to get right back into it. Tell you this thing. Speaking of partners. Okay. Thank you to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next.

order at quince.com slash gge and betterhelp get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash gg.e. And finally, article, get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com slash ggge. And thank you to Bolandbranch. Get 20% off at bolandbranch.com slash gge and hungry route. Get 40% off your first delivery and a free item in every box for life at hungry root.com slash gge with code gge. Okay.

Just being people's partners, I have to tell you this whole thing. So last week I made this whole declaration about like making men feel needed and making people feel like I need them. And I got a lot of really nice messages like, oh my God, so vulnerable. And thank you very much. Don't get used to it. You were vulnerable last week. I know I was. Well, I've thought it back because some people don't deserve it.

Okay. But I made this big grandstand about like making men feel needed. And boy, have I done that with other people's men this week. The amount of men, you don't even know about some of the stuff that I have used. other people's husbands and fiancés for this week is crazy. That's why you've been faking this back injury. We come over, you're laying on the couch, you're like, can you help me with those boxes? I just really pulled my back out.

So I started off strong on Saturday. You and Sparklelice came over with your mom who was in town, which we'll talk about like a really special weekend. But I was having a problem with my side view mirror, so I asked your current fiancé to just pop it into place for me because he's a car guy. So while he was outside doing that, gave your mom the tour. And then when he came back in, I was like, are this box that I can't move? Well, I saw that box.

I was like, he's got to get that box. I looked at you first. I was like, am I allowed to ask him to do this? Because it's also just weird to use somebody else's man to do so. No, it's not. He loves to do this shit. He loves it. Great.

What else can I make him do? Yeah. But that box is bigger than all three of our bodies put together. It was enormous. And I should have made Rob do it, but I didn't let him stay with me when he came here. So then the next day, I was pulling into my garage, which I can barely get into. And it was like late at night, and I must have hit one of the sensors. and there's like two sensors obviously that face each other

so that you know if there's something blocking your garage. And it was late at night. It was like 11.30 at night. And I had bent one of the sensors and I couldn't get it to get back in place. So I just ripped it off the wall and broke it. Because I was like panicking. I was alone in this alleyway where my garage is at 1130.

Oh, so you could shut your garage door. Yeah. I was just really like panicking. So I was just like whatever. So then the next day I made our friend Rob, who has a wife, run around with me to a hardware store, hands and knees on the floor, drilling into the wall. And then I hurt my back.

I hurt my sciatic nerve. And I was just like, maybe it's just like sometimes it just be like that. And you just got to like lay around with like a heating pad. But it has not gotten better. It's like become more painful. Really? So then I sent your brother a voice note this morning. Oh, well, he's who you have to talk to.

He is like the best doctor who's not a doctor. I thought he was going to really just be like, just make sure you stretch a couple times a day and like use a heating pad. He first of all asks me a ton of questions. Is it localized? Is it just your butt? is it your lower back? He was like, where do you sleep on your front?

What do you wear to bed? What are you wearing right now? And I said, I'm, I wear, you wearing when it happened. Can you show me how you're bending over? Show me photos. He's asking me of these questions, when has happened,

how do you sleep? What do you wear to sleep? I said, I wear long pants and long shirt, nothing interesting to see here. He said, I was kidding. I was like, I know you were kidding. So funny. So he started sending me paragraphs and videos.

And then he does the video, I know. of stretches and his wife was filming them. Yeah. Paragraph. This like war's my heart. I mean, could you die how long this is? I'm telling you, like, Matt majored in health and exercise science and he also played college football.

And that's why I asked him. Right. But the way he speaks about the human body and is able to diagnose things, of course, I'm not taking anything away from doctors, whatever. But like, it's just like you know it's what he should have done. And I don't know, maybe there's a world in which he goes back to school for this. he should at the very least be a physical therapist. Like he has walked me through every injury I've ever had.

He's fixed it. He does the stretches. Like when I had that issue with my back, he knew exactly what it was. Wow. And he was able to show me the stretches to do to fix it. And he was like, this is why it happens.

Like, it's so crazy. And you're like, how are you not a professional in the way the language just flows out of his mouth? Like it's pretty, it's so impressive. It's like he gets in his element. And I just think about that. You know, I don't think it was really, he thought he was going to play football.

It's really hard to do much more than play a college sport. And so sometimes I just think, like, I wish he would have gotten a higher education in this because he's, like, clearly so born to do it. I mean, it was amazing. And I wasn't surprised because I know that he's like this, but, like, he had names for each stretch. He knows the whole body. He was like, don't bounce when you do it. Like, don't, like, like, lunge back and forth, like, stay in this position for X amount of time. I mean, he really had, like, a whole treatment plan.

I know. I really thought he was just going to be like, sometimes you hurt yourself and you got to just be easy on your body and wait it out. Nope. Which probably a real doctor was. Kind of. No, it's, well, I Googled it and that's what the internet said. Yeah, it's like innate. I don't know. You know, I always say that maybe one day if he wants to go back to school or something. Late in life, PT. I googled how do you fix the sciatic nerve and none of this came up. It was just like take walks and use the heating pad. And just like, your nephews were so cute. They're like in the back of the video and he's doing stretches on the floor. It just was really nice. So,

I have not made any men that I'm dating feel needed. I've actually was specifically told this week that I have a problem making people feel needed to this one guy. I was like, I don't feel good. He's like, can I come take care of you? And I was like, no. Yeah, but it's like, no, not you. Well, not yet either.

Yeah, no, it's just, you know, you're not at the one. That's, it's intimate, Raina. Like, it's, you would let him do the stuff around the home that you needed done. But to bring you, like, soup and stuff, it's intimate. So let me ask for it. I was thinking, like, okay, so we'd been on. we've been on three days. And he was like, let me like come over and like take care of you, which is really sweet.

But like it's also just too soon for me to be all like sick around a person. Like in the beginning, I'm still in the like, I'd like you to see this like lighter version of me. And that's not an inability to be vulnerable people. I just, I don't need it. I'm a grown adult woman. I'm not incapacitated. I've had major surgery, by the way, that I don't want anybody around me for. So like if I have a cold, it's very sweet.

and if it's the right person, I'm, like, very happy to be, like, sick. Like, you were talking about, and you and your fiance were, like, so sick. You guys lived together. That's the person's going to take care of you. I can't believe he still fucks me. I just have to spit all the time.

Like, today, walking back for breakfast, I just have to hawk a loogie. I'm like, I can't believe you still fuck me. Like, he has just seen the grossest part of me through all this sickness. And previously, I've been pretty fucked up around him, too. But, yeah, you've got to be in love for that shit. I think that, like, true intimacy and love,

it's a lot of weird gross smells and you're just like, it's morning breath. You're in the shower together and only one of you is under the water. The other one's just shivering naked and cold by themselves. You just see a lot of weird stuff and smell a lot of weird stuff and like that's true intimacy, but like a few dates

in, I'm sure it's well intentioned it's very nice, but I don't need you up in my space. Seeing me like that. Well, and it's just the type of relationship you have. I mean, there are people that have been out three times and they're in love and, you know, that's just what it is. Like, that's not where you're at. And so it does feel too soon and like a little misplaced. And we're not at a place for you to

take care of me when I'm sick. I don't know. Yeah. We're at a place where I want to show up at a bar, restaurant or a movie and I want to look cute. I want a nice time. And like I don't want to be trying to like fight through feeling like this to hang out with you. Right. Yeah. You know? I know. Totally. Exactly. I love that you say that. It's not a lack of vulnerability. It's like I'm just, I'm still wanting to be cute. Right. Like with six dates and I can. drop the cute act. Right. You could see me with no makeup on that.

Yeah. I don't care. So anyways, I've really utilized all the men in your life to help me this week. Well, speaking of my family, yes, my mom was in town.

And it was just the best weekend. You know I get really, like I feel a lot of pressure when people come in town or I plan a trip to make sure everything goes right and that I plan the right things and everybody is a good time. And like if it doesn't really work out like that, I'll be stressed about it. Like for weeks,

I won't stop. about it. You know, like I could have done this better. I could have made sure this person had a better time, whatever. So I really feel like proud of the planning I did and like hosting her and she loved my house and it was her first time visiting since we've lived here. And I just felt like I was my best self because she was visiting me on my turf. And a lot of times when I go back home to Delaware, I'm like, we've been traveling. We've been touring. You know, it's like, oh, I can't wait to get home and relax. And I'm just not my most like energetic best self. I don't know. I've been thinking about that recently. I was like, I feel like my parents always kind of get like the tail end of a trip or something or

it's like the holidays ever be sick. Like I don't know. I just haven't. A lot of times I feel really kind of exhausted. And this was like her coming. I felt fresh. It was like well arrested. I hadn't been on a flight for six hours. You know, it was able to really plan a lot and do a lot for us. And it was just so nice. It was so nice for her to spend time with you. And she came and saw your house and to spend time with my current fiance. They have like such a bond. They just like a lot times it was just the three of us and they just really love each other and I don't know they both send each other like the sweetest text afterwards and it was just really nice also I just want to say when you go to your parents house like we all revert to these like childhood versions of ourselves too and you

don't have your car and your routine and like your stuff and you really do get to be a better version of you when they come to you when they come to you whenever I know and the thing is is like yes we've been here now two years and my family hasn't visited and that's not because they don't want to see our lives, but like I just want to go there. I mean, I was in this long distance relationship where I was going to the East Coast. Like, I want to be in Delaware and I combine seeing my family with a place I want to be where I'm from. But yeah, so it's just like my brother and my dad probably won't come till the wedding and that's okay. You know? Getting here's tough though. Like for both of our families, your family's just like drive

over an hour to the airport to a long flight. There's no direct flights from Pittsburgh. So my parents have to take like two flights to get here. Yes. It just felt like, God, I'm like at a I'm like really at a 10 in terms of like my energy levels and my just mood. She got to meet a lot of people. Yeah. See, Rob. It was nice. It was really nice.

So she did come here for something really special. Yeah. And I had said this before she was coming for us to go wedding dress shopping. So we did go and it was me and my mom and you and our friend Taylor who went to a boutique called enblanc in Santa Monica like the closest one to my house. It was just like right down the street. And we found the dress. So good. I did say yes to the dress.

But I don't know. I kind of want to talk about the experience as a whole. Like initially when we went in, I mean, they're so welcoming and they're so kind and friendly to you. But then we talked with the like stylist who was going to be working with me. Her name was Shri. I loved her. And then it's kind of like I described to her what I wanted. And then we just kind of like went out into the store and we're like, let's just all see what we like.

And I had this moment of panic where I was like, I don't, do I like any of these? like they don't really come to life till you put them on. It's so hard to see on a rack. They've all been tried on. You know, they're not your size. I was just having this thing of like, what if I don't like find it? What if I don't like this? Like, what if I'm not a bride, which who cares? Whatever. But I just was like having this feeling like I wasn't blown away or something. I was supposed to feel differently. And like, I was just deferring to you guys. Like, you guys were just grabbing ones. And then she pulled a couple. And I was like, I don't even know what I have in that dressing room. Like I feel like I should feel more excited. I just don't really know how to place how I'm

feeling. And then it like all changed when I started to try them on. And I tried on three that I truly loved like kind of in order that they all got better. Like I really like the first one. I like the second one more. I like the third one even more. But I was like, we're not crying. No one shed a tear. Well, you walked out in the first one and I was like it looks, listen, you're five, ten and you're very thin. You're going to look good in a lot of things. You are built for these dresses. And you walked on the first one and I was like, it's beautiful. It's beautiful on her body. It's beautifully made. It's nice. Yeah. And then I was like, are we all just going to keep feeling like it was beautiful? I know. And then by the way, I'm going to, I am about to post this

probably today or tomorrow. So it'll be up by the time you guys are listening. You can go to my Instagram and I'm doing a reel of all three that I didn't chose the three beautiful losers. But so Ash has.com, you guys can see the real Raina's kind of commentating on a lot of it, whatever. But yes. And then the second one was a totally different vibe. And we were like, oh, we like, this better. I was like, oh, maybe this is the one. But I'm like, aren't you supposed to feel that it's the one? But again, you walked out and I was like, this looks great too. Yeah. And then the third one I was like, oh, this is like, this is like this lace, like Haley Bieber, kind of like really special, gorgeous, kind of dramatic. Yeah, like romantic, but also kind of trendy. I don't know.

And then we put out of the sleeves with it. And I was like, oh, this is like a vibe. And I was like, is this the one? But I was like, I feel like we're supposed to be crying. Yeah, I thought we were supposed to feel more. And then I was just like, maybe I'm just not like a crying other people's dresses thing. Like I went to this and I was like, I'm kind of sick. And I just like, am I a cry about other people's shit kind of person? But I will say when we walked into the store, your mom and I immediately started crying. Yes.

It was an emotional experience altogether. But I was like, I just feel like we're not having the appropriate reaction to like the one. And then I put on the fourth one and I had not pulled this. Shri had pulled this. I probably wouldn't have. I don't think any of us would have. Never in a million years. Even though it had all these elements that I knew I wanted.

But it was on the rack that all of us were like, we don't look at that rack. But also that designer is like the best fucking designer. It's this like designer from London. I mean, it's like, it's actually like we should have been on that rack. It was the non-laced dresses. We were drawing.

Yes, we were doing lace. The non-lace can look a little plain. If you don't have like lace and sparkles and not a giant princess skirt, which is what I don't want like a ball gown, like they can look a little plain. You got to get them on. So I'm like, I'll try that one on.

And as she's putting it on and she's like doing the clips on the back, I was like, hurry, hurry, hurry. I was like, how to feel it. I was like, I think this is it. And I was like, hurry. She was like, I can tell you're getting so antsy. Like, I have a feeling like brides get like this when they like know and they want to do the reveal. And I like walked out and we all just lost it. My mom was crying.

We were like, it's the one. I mean, we just, I just knew. I was like, oh, I am. I know. I was like, so am I. I was like, and I'll post this after the wedding because I have really special videos of coming out in this dress. And like, I know it's the one. My mom sitting there crying.

like you're getting emotional. Taylor's like, oh my God. You know, it just, you really do know when you know. You really, you know when you know. And I, I love it. It's really special. It's really elegant and simple. And like we were talking about all the accessories you can do with it. I don't think it's that simple. It's not covered in lace and beads. And a shoe's poppy skirt. And it is exactly enough. Yeah. And so I had an appointment the next day. And I was like, I still really want to go. Like the appointment I had the following day was the first appointment. I made. It was this boutique. I really wanted to go to. I really wanted to try and dress this from this very specific designer that designed a friend's wedding dress of mine. And I don't know. I was like, I'm going to keep it. I'm going to go. I'm going to go and see. It was just going to be you and my mom. We're going to go. I was like, you should go. I think you should go. I think you should go and you should get that designer out of your system. But I felt like she was like, you're going to be back. But we'll be here waiting or, you know, whatever you want to do. It's your decision. And that night, out that night with my mom and my fiance.

We were like out having drinks and I just was like, I'm not going, I don't want to go. I know what I want. I couldn't stop looking at photos of it. Like I was looking in my phone at photos like it was like text from her crush. Like I was like reliving it. I was like, that's the one. I don't know what I'm thinking and I will feel really kind of inauthentic. Even working with someone at that boutique like knowing that this isn't what I want.

You know it's like going on a date with somebody that you know you want somebody else. You've experienced it. And so I was like I just put it and like canceled it and that was that. And then we went back the next day. And she luckily had a cancellation for me to go back and do like the full measurements. And that is intense. It is, it is your butt naked. Oh, are you?

I mean, I had my thong on. She didn't like measure my pussy lips or anything. But had my thong on and just so many measurements. Like where you drop from your shoulder to your nipple. Oh, because they really customize your waist, your butt. I mean, your bust, like every part of your chest. And then like your hips. and height, you know.

What would you buy that they need to measure your pussy lips? I was just saying, I kept my thong on. And then I was like, okay, so now when it comes, like in the summer or whatever, like, it'll be ready to go. She's like, well, typically you still might need some alterations. I'm like, where am I going? What did you just measure me for? She's like, you know, I'm like, for what?

Well, the length of stuff is not going to change that drastically unless you, like, really lose a ton of weight. But you know what's shocking to me is that you buy this. For a lot of people a year in advance, nine, ten months in advance, and like, people start to lose a significant amount of weight for their weddings. I understand it completely. I don't want to lose any weight. Like, I love where I'm at. I feel great.

If anything, I wouldn't maybe want to just to work my butt out a little bigger. I was like, if anything's getting bigger, it's going to be my butt, but not, like, my measurements aren't going to change. And I know that's not a lot of people want to lose weight for their wedding. And that's understandable. But how does that work? Like, you're getting measured. you're like, okay, but just keep in mind it's going to be, I mean, I don't know how that. I truly don't understand the way they account for that.

Well, maybe they just account for it because a lot of people lose a significant amount of weight for their wedding. Yeah, so you just, you put on like a big dress, they pin it all up. So I see what you're saying. So you go in, you get measured and then that's why you have to get it altered again. Yeah, most people go back for a second alteration. But like to lose like 30 pounds between the time you like buy it and you finalize it. I mean, I don't know how they account for that. Okay, then I was going to ask you also, I don't know how.

I don't know how you stay like in something for that long. I would be looking, and I love your dress. I think it's perfect and it's amazing. And I think you'll like that forever also. I think it's something that we've talked a lot about buying like classic wedding dresses and saying like I still want like what's of the times. I don't care if I look back and it's dated. But I actually don't think this dress will ever look dated.

But like it would be hard for me to sustain liking something for nine or ten months and being like, I don't know if I made a mistake. If there's something bad. Like how do you stop yourself from going on websites? and being like, there's other stuff out there. I know. So it hasn't been months. Obviously, it's been days.

But now I have a bunch of dresses in my, like on my search everywhere. And then I went on the designer's website. Also, like, I'll talk about the designer later. I don't know. I just feel like if you went on there, you might be, it doesn't need to be some big secret. The only person I'm not showing is my fiance. I'm showing everyone else.

I'm showing everyone else. I didn't show anybody until I asked you if you would be okay with you. And that's whatever you want to do. Some people would care. Some people do. I don't care. The only person I care about that big reveal is him. And everyone else can see it.

I'm so excited. I want to show everybody. But I'll tell you the designer later. Not that anybody's really asking. I'm not trying to gatekeep. But yeah, it was on her site and I'm like, oh, well, you are questioning if you made the right choice. And then you have to remember like, yeah, you made the right choice for you and your body and what you wanted. Like, I'm just like, all those very specific type of lace dresses, like they do look so gorgeous, but I tried them on and they weren't it. But to your point, I guess you're saying your taste change, which is what you hope doesn't happen. I mean, your taste can change. I think that that like styles can change in general.

You just, you picked something that's going to age really well. Yeah. It's not like a crop top wedding dress. It's just, I don't know. I think I would just always be like, what if,

but I'm not picking like a cover up for the beach. It's a, it's a wedding dress. Yeah. I think I'm just like, I don't know, how do you not change your mind about your partner?

Like, I don't know. Like, I'm just, I'm kind of like, I love this. I committed to it. I know it's right.

And this is what's going to be. I'm halfway joking, but like, Couldn't you say the same about like, what if I changed my mind about the first I'm going to marry in nine months? It happened to me. It happened to you. So I don't know. I have to remember that the way we all reacted to it, the way I felt in it and just know that it's the one.

Totally. So can't wait for you guys to see it in however many months. It's coming up. I love it. It's special. Yeah. It was interesting being in there because there was two other brides in there at the same time as you. And they just had like very, very different styles.

One, like this like hyper shiny white color. Satiny. Satney white, which is not my style. Although everybody looks beautiful. And then this other girl had this like really princessy dress. I mean, she looked like Cinderella. And they were short like May. I think I'm a little outside the norm of what people want in terms of I think people

want a big full skirt and they want to feel like a princess. I've never once said I want to feel like a princess. I know that's really what people gravitate towards because you don't, when else are you going to wear a dress like that? And I do understand it. It's fun to twirl in a big skirt. It's never what I've wanted. Like when I filled out a little questionnaire before I went to the appointment, it says like one word to describe how you want to feel on your wedding day.

And like I'm sure people write princess. What was your word? I did too. Glamorous and hot. Hot. I like that. I want to look sexy for my dad. But everyone, even the next day when I went back for measurements is big, big skirt.

And it's actually the one thing I can tell you, don't even show me it. I don't want it. It's not my style. and that's fine. Like, taste is so subjective, especially with this. I don't like the big skirt, for one reason. That's because I've had the opportunity to perform so much. And, like, so much of what I wear is costuming and is, like, look at her in that thing.

And so, like, I've had so many of those moments. I think I prefer something a little more, like, demure is not really the right word. But the big, poofy princess skirt, I'm also short. It doesn't necessarily look as good on my body. And those girls both looked really beautiful. They did. They looked great. and they will look beautiful on their wedding day.

But it's not a style that I care for. Oh my God. Everybody looks beautiful in the dress that they feel beautiful. And, like, you know, everybody is beautiful. But also, it was just funny talking to the stylist. She was like, some girls want this, and they're getting married on the beach. Well, some of those dresses are so heavy. I'm just like, yeah.

Do you want to be carrying this around all night? I think about those big princess dresses on the sand. Why? Because so much sand gets up in it? It gets so dirty. I think it's a vibe thing. Where I'm getting married is also glamorous and hot. And I knew what I wanted and I knew everything would tie in.

I didn't really need to think about it. But I think you should consider where you're getting married when you think of how you're going to look. Of course. Think about that giant ball gown on the beach. It feels a little mismatched. Well, a friend of ours would show me her wedding dress photos yesterday and she got married like in the Caribbean. And she had like a beachy boho dress. He has like the big Cinderella gown like on the beach in Mexico.

You're wearing a hotel dress. On the beach. Yeah, you're wearing an indoor dress. Indoor dress. No, whatever you want to do is fine. I mean, that's a thing. Like, do whatever. Go outside the box, like, look crazy.

That's your moment. You should look as wild and over the top. However you want to feel, however you want to look as slutty or as princessy as you want, that's when to do it. Yeah. It'll cost you. It is not cheap to buy a wedding dress. It's insane.

I'm not just going revolve. Revolve does up a line of one of dresses now. I got served on the other day. Show me your moo-mo. Oh, they wedding dresses? Anthropology, probably. The gap. I was like, can I just go off the rack?

I mean, anything white can be a wedding dress if you believe in yourself. Okay, let's talk about our partners, and we will get into it with Emily. I am telling you guys about bowl and branch. I am so obsessed with these sheets. I think about it all the time when I'm just rolling around in my bed and feeling so comfortable. Like, I really thought today before I did this read, how much. much I have to hype Boland Bridge. How much I have to tell you that you need these sheets. I'm going to look directly in the camera. These are so, they're second to none. Oh, it's changing

I have the sheets. I have the duvet cover. Yes. I have the blankets now. Yes. I love the colors. Yes. I made my whole bedroom pop off. I know. And I used to do all white. I still have my plenty of sets of sheets, but I'm really sticking to more of the beigees and the cream colors. And I really just, you know, not all neutrals are created equal either. So a lot of sheets are just like, that's not the right beige. I'm going pebble. Yeah, you love the pebble. My mom just came to town and she was in the guest bedroom. We have Bowling Branch sheets in there too. And she was like, oh my God, I've never slept so well. This is just so comfortable. So we're just obsessed. I mean, their signature sheets are a perfect place to start. 100% organic cotton. These sheets

feel buttery to the touch. Breathe the bull to sleep in. They get softer every wash. And you can bundle stuff as well. And they also have different fabrics. There's a per kale fabric that's going to be cool and crisp linen. There's even flannel. You can order swatches. You can just test out what you want because, again, you're going to be sleeping on. It's going to be up against your body. and the sheets just washed so easily. Of course, you're never going to lose quality when you wash them, but they are going to get softer over time, which we love. And nothing compares to these.

We're just so obsessed with them. And again, Raina mentioned we both got these waffle blankets, and they're just so great just to throw over the bed. I mean, I have it on my bed, but, you know, I'll bring it down. I'll be, like, cuddling up with it on the couch, like watching Netflix or whatever. So we love the waffle blanket as well. You guys can check it out.

Bowling Branch products are made different, so you can sleep better at night, woven with the finest, 100% organic. cotton on earth crafted by artisans who earn the pay and respect they deserve. So you guys can upgrade your sleep during Bowling Branch's annual spring event. For a limited time, get 20% off at bowl and branch.com slash GGE. That's bowl and branch, B O L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash G-G-E to take 20% off site-wide for limited time. Exclusions apply.

See site for details. Okay. And you guys know that I am just obsessed with interior design at my space in general. And article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-list. lasting home at an unbeatable price. Articles great, you guys. You go on their site, they've tons of different curated ranges of styles. They have mid-century modern, coastal, which is what I kind of lean towards.

Scandy. And it just really makes the whole room feel more cohesive and stylish. There's great qualities. They take great care in curating the collections. And they focus solely on high quality and meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. And if you're just thinking to yourself, like, I'm not sure how to style these things, put them together. Their website is fantastic.

And they'll show you how both their designers and people who have just shop the site, have styled the pieces. And so something that I think is just like nice to do. I just put a new coffee table and it really just changed the whole vibe of my living room. If you're just like, I want to refresh a room and maybe you don't want to buy a whole couch, a copy table is a great way to do that. I love their Surrey 44-inch coffee table. It's a square white oak copy table.

It's really beautiful and you can kind of decorate the top of it with some candlesticks and vases and things like that. But it's a really nice way to change the whole vibe of a room or something like a headboard. And just little things can really make it change. boards are the best in the game. Totally. They have fast affordable shipping and assembly. So the delivery process is really fantastic. You kind of watch them while they come to you. They have great support and they have 30-day satisfaction guarantee. So you can shop with confidence knowing that you're not completely in love with your furniture. You can easily return it. So really from styling to delivery

to returns if you need to, you're a love the experience. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more to claim. Visit article.com slash GGE and the disc count will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com slash gge for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Okay, let's get into it. All right, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a writer for publications such as The Cut, Epicurious, Architectural Digest, L, BuzzFeed, and she is a senior writer at Bon Appetit.

She is a cookbook author, and her latest book takes a little bit of a different tone. I'll just be at five more minutes and other tales from my ADHD brain, a memoir for people with ADHD as well as those who know and love them. Please welcome to the show, Emily Ferris. Hello, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here. Hi. We're so excited to have you.

Yes, we haven't touched on this really at all. We are so excited to talk about your experiences and your journey and everything today. And you were coming to us from Kansas City, Missouri, from a closet in my child's bedroom. I used to have my own podcast studio, but I recently got a divorce, which I'm sure we will get to. moved into an apartment and now I'm now I'm in a closet. I'm in the closet. Well, are you from there? I am. I grew up outside of Kansas City. I touched on that in the book a little bit. It was Independence, Missouri, and at the time it was the meth capital of the world or the country, according to Rolling Stone. What an honor. Yeah, right? And believe it or not, I actually never did

meth, even though I believe it or not. Believe it or not, I have done meth. Believe it or no. You know, I love stimulants. Turns out I need. them and it's amazing that no one ever offered me meth because I probably would have loved it. But do they say like meth is, there's similarities between meth and Adderall, correct? Yes. And so we'll actually talk about that a little bit in the introduction of the book that there is like meth is kind of like a bootleg version of an early stimulant drug that doesn't get prescribed very much. But they're all like amphetamines. They all, you know, give you extra dopamine and other chemical things. I'm not a doctor. But yes, there's, they are, there are

some similarities, but I recommend going to a doctor and getting a prescription and not going to independence and getting meth. Exactly. Okay. We have no plans. They're not on the tour this year. Yeah. We love Kansas City. When we've performed there and St. Louis and Kansas City, we have a great fan base there. Come back and I'll come to Travis. Yeah. We'll all do meth together. Oh, yeah. No. No. But yeah, then I moved to New York when I was 18 and then moved back to inside of Kansas City, not the methie suburb in 2009. And I've been here ever since. So you wrote this book and it's this great memoir. And it really, as somebody who I don't think I have ADHD, but I've dated somebody with ADHD and it really helped me to like understand their

experience in the world and sort of maybe my intolerance for certain things that I should have been kinder about. So we'd love to just talk about the inspiration for writing the book. And just maybe started with like your journey. I mean, yeah, even just like, growing up. Like, was this something? Like, I feel like something's off. I, you know, we just kind of want to hear how you came to this diagnosis before even wanting to write about the book and create content around it. I mean, I absolutely thought something was off when I was a kid. I remember just be, I remember going to my mom when I was really young and saying, like, there's something wrong with my brain. I think I get angrier than other kids. Like, I can't keep my backpack clean. I can't go to bed at

bedtime. And like I, even when I was a kid at like 10.30 at night, I would get inspired to do a project and I would want to like sponge paint my walls red or paint a piece of furniture or craft something or rearrange all the furniture in my bedroom. And, you know, as I got older, teenager, all teenagers, I think, are awkward. But I definitely felt even though I had a lot of friends and I was involved in a lot of activities, I just felt like an outsider almost to the teenage world, if that makes sense. even in my early 20s. It took me six years to finish college. I was a professional writer and I timed out of the reading comprehension portion of the GRE, which was very embarrassing. There was all these little things, right? Like I could never get my money together. I could never get my sleep in order. I still can't get my sleep in order. My money's a little better. Sleep still hot mess. I always have like one really messy room in my bedroom. I've clothes everywhere. Like just all these little things. I don't feed myself until I'm like, oh my God, I'm still. I'm starving, I'm going to pass out. I can drink coffee, like, all day every day and still,

I can't go to sleep in my bed. However, I could fall asleep on the couch at 6 o'clock if I need to be doing something. So all these little things. And I would joke, I joked for years that I would be like, oh, I'm ADHD today. I even wrote an article for Shelter Pop, which is a now defunct AOL home design blog. It was called My Design ADD. And it was about how I just constantly want to like rearrange all my furniture and repaint all my rooms and change things all the time. And lacking a little self-awareness, obviously, because then at age 35 is right before my 36th birthday, I finally got an official diagnosis. And I was like, oh, my God, everything makes so much sense. And then I told my stepmom, I was talking to her on my birthday, she goes, oh, that's interesting.

Your dad got diagnosed with that a few years ago. Hmm. I never mentioned it. No. That's so interesting. Okay. Yeah. However, when you look back at like ADHD and the kind of little traumas that it creates throughout your life, it made perfect sense to me because my dad like doesn't like to talk about hard things or have hard conversations. So what made you or what brought you to the diagnosis at 35? Were you like, I just got to figure this out or was it by accident or how exactly did that happen?

There was one article that I had read in the Atlantic early in my marriage and it was called ADHD is different for women. And I remember reading that article and feeling so it felt. so relatable, like all of the things that this author had said she had issues with, it felt relatable to me. And I was having trouble even early in my marriage. And I remember thinking to myself at the time, well, that would be too easy. Like, an ADHD diagnosis would be too easy. Like, getting Adderall would be too easy. It's not, I need to sleep more and like stop eating gluten and drink turmeric tea and like, you know, put some essential oils somewhere. Like, I was like, I need exercise more. So I kind of like gaslighted myself a little bit. And, like, you know, And yeah, just like that would just be too easy.

You can't. It's, it's, you know, it's not that. And then a few years later, after my first son was born, I just had this like complete, like, week-long meltdown of systems where it was like, I thought I was going away one weekend and it was the wrong weekend and I'd rescheduled all this stuff, but I hadn't rescheduled some of it. And it was like, I got to this point where I was like, I don't even know when I am. Like I was trying so hard to be on top of my shit. And I just, it all fell apart. Like everything fell. And I was like, what, what is going on? Like, I have, I have privilege.

I have a job. I have a calendar. Like, what the fuck? And then I remembered that article. And I reread it. And I was like, holy shit. This is it. And then I tried to get a diagnosis at the hospital.

Like, the doctor who delivered my son, I asked for a psych referral. And it was a terrible experience, which I write about in the book. And then I eventually found. a psychologist who specializes in adult ADHD. And I had, I don't know, four or five sessions with her, maybe more. I can't remember now. And we, we, like, so much talking about my life and my history. And then she did a bunch of cognitive tests with me. And she, uh, diagnosed me as ADHD and gifted, which made me cry because when I was a kid, like I was, oh, you're smart. And I thought I was smart. But then there was these things that I just really struggled with. Yeah. And so that was a

very emotional diagnosis for me. And then I took that to a psychiatrist who then evaluated me again. and now, you know, I see a therapist. I see my psychiatrist every three months for my not meth amphetamines. And I still am a hot mess sometimes, but mostly like I have my shit together. I just, I love that story. And I'm so happy for you that you sought treatment and asked a person to talk to you about this because it sounds like you lived with a lot of like shame and blame around this of like if I just went to sleep earlier, if I changed my eating habits, if I communicated differently,

if I just slow down. Like, if I just overhauled everything I do, then maybe I'll be fine. And I'm sure you've spent a lot of years, like, beating yourself up over why can't I do this? Oh, absolutely. Like, even, I know weight is such a touchy topic and I hate to even bring it up. But, like, I was eating for dopamine. I would eat just because I was like, I needed dopamine. And I was like binge eating for dopamine.

And like that, it's treating my ADHD has absolutely helped that. And then like, yeah, exercising. And anything, I'd get, I'd shame myself. and then I'd get hyper fixated on fixing something. And then I would put all of my energy and all of my focus into it. And then I would crash and burn. And then I would feel even worse about myself because I couldn't stick to the thing. Yeah.

What was that diagnosis like? I mean, I'm assuming it was a lot of different emotions of thank God. Or was it just like, I can't believe I didn't do this sooner. Like what did you or a mix of both? Like, what did you feel? There was a lot. There was a lot of emotions. I felt relieved to have.

a clinical explanation for what had been going on in my life for so long. I felt sad for younger me. For how much other people had shamed me and told me to try harder and for how much I had shamed myself and how hard I was on myself and for the opportunities that I missed out on because I didn't have the tools I needed and I wasn't treating my ADHD. I have a lot of compassion for little Emily now. I wrote down this quote that you said. I exhausted myself trying to fit into a world that was not built for my brain. And was there just like always self-talk in your head? Like, why isn't this easier for me? Yeah. Like why can't like what like what the fuck is wrong with me? Why can't I just go to bed? Why can't I get up? Why can't I stop overdrawing my bank account?

Why can't I put away my laundry? Why can't I eat healthy food at regular meal times? Like all the time, like everything all the time. Right. Because you're smart and gifted and self-aware. So there's this struggle of like I know what I'm doing and I can't fix it. It's. It's. It's like you'd almost rather just be like stupid and be like, I don't know. That's just like not to think about it. I mean, I'm also a food writer. And I was working as a recipe developer for a lot of my career and I like can't even feed myself. Well, Ashley's point, it does that you, you said I was like an overachiever and an underachiever at the same time. Like it sounds like you really were high functioning in the like professional areas of your life. Yes. And that is actually one of the reasons

I think I went undiagnosed for so long. And this happens with women. So there's something called masking and it happens with different neurodivergence and other mental health conditions that I was masking, right? So I was putting my energy and my hyperfocus into doing well at school and like being in the clubs and like being on student council and achieving things and doing not sports. I can't catch a ball to save my life. But I was, I was, yeah, school is where I felt validated. I also didn't have a great upbringing at home. So that added to it and I touch on that in the book. But school is where I got a lot of validation and the validation gave me dopamine. And so I kept, you know, it was like little rewards. Every day it was almost like a reward. You know, from a for a teacher giving me a plus or telling me I did great or telling me I was smart or being excited about me being excited about extra credit or something. So I got my validation through school. So I performed, you know, I was getting A's and A pluses. I was getting extra credit. I was doing all the clubs. I had jobs. I was doing internships. My senior year of high school, I had like two jobs and two internships. Wasn't sleeping. Of course. Was taking no dose. Very Jesse Spano.

No, I used to take those, too. Those make you crazy. You know what? Not when you have ADHD. Oh. Not when you are under medicated. That's the hack. I did not have a Jesse Spano moment, right?

Oh, my God. Can we actually just pause for one second and for like people listening, just define ADHD? Okay. So I define it as my brain doesn't process dopamine the same way neurotypical brains do. Okay. Like a baseline of contentedness maybe for someone. For a neurotypical person, whatever their baseline is, mine is either way high and way low. Which is why sometimes ADHD gets mistaken for bipolar disorder or depression and anxiety, one or the other or both.

Women are misdiagnosed all the time with depression and anxiety, bipolar disorder. bipolar one. And so it's really like in order for me to feel enough energy to have executive functional, to have executive functional. Executive function is like doing the things in my everyday life to make life sustainable, right? Like feeding myself, paying my bills, sustaining a relationship, cleaning my house. That's all part of executive function. And if my brain isn't getting enough dopamine to like make my brain be like, yeah, let's do this. I can't do it.

Okay. And there were times when I thought, God, do I have chronic fatigue disorder? Like I was just what? Because there were times I had such low energy, but I wasn't excited. I just couldn't get excited about anything because whatever. part of my brain needed to get the right amount of dopamine, something wasn't firing properly. And then I feel like when we were younger, it was ADD and now it turned into ADHD, which is the hyperactivity part of it. Like is there is ADD still a thing or is it all just

kind of lumped into? Yeah, I believe it's all. I believe ADD is technically no longer a thing. However, I mean, the term attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. So that's the acronym. Yeah. It's kind of misleading because not everyone who, has ADHD has the hyperactivity. There are two highs. There's inattentive and hyperactive. I've combined. Okay.

So I had the highs and the lows, right? So like the times are like, oh, I can't focus. They're like, oh, my God, I'm going to teach myself how to make video overnight. So I have both. So it's kind of misleading. And it's not that there is attention deficit. It's almost like either the floodgates of attention are open or they are closed. Like it's a dam or the floodgates are open, right?

So I'm either giving something all of my attention or none of my attention. or none of my attention. And it sounds like that can manifest positively when you give stuff all your attention. Yeah. So people weren't like, you got to get help because it is positive some of the time. Yeah. And I like, I freelanced for a long time.

And I would have clients who are like, do you make video? And I'd be like, no, but I will tomorrow. Yeah. I'll teach myself overnight. I'll stay up all night. And so you're on medication and that just normalizes it, balances it.

Is that just kind of the, you're supposed to? In theory. In theory. It helps me. to get motivated to start my day and to do the things that I don't, that I otherwise wouldn't have enough, process enough dopamine to actually do. So like I'm still like really bad about doing my expense reports at work. But it helps me to like get started on something I have to write or get, do these little executive function things. Like I don't want to do my laundry, but I have to do

laundry. And like my, it's giving my brain just enough dopamine to help me. feel not excited, but like motivated enough. But medication alone is not, it's not a magic pill. Uh-huh. For sure. And magic-ish. You list a few different symptoms. You listed out four and, you know, it's hard to get one pill to fix all them. So I'll read them back to you, but it's hyperfixation, time blindness, emotional regulation and sensory processing issues. So what did, what for you did like the medication focus on fixing in that? I mean, the hyperfocus, really. Okay. And it's, kind of, I'm doing like backwards calculation here, but I would hyperfocus on something that wasn't the thing I was supposed to be doing because that was boring to me. And so I would go

and hyperfocus on something else. I still do that, but I can regulate that more. And emotional regulation, I think, is kind of part of that. It's kind of all connected. So the medication just helps me to take my hyperfocus off of the things that I want to be doing that would give me dopamine even without the medication and focus on the things that I need to be doing. Okay. We want to talk about your marriage and divorce, but also prior to getting married, like dating, you know, did this come into play? Oh, my God.

Yes. And it's coming into play now because I'm divorced and dating. You're dating. So just for a timeline, when did you meet your ex-husband? Early 2010. Okay. And you were in, I'm trying to do some out here. In Kansas City, yes.

But like post-college or post- Post college, yes. I graduated college in 2006 after six years. So I'm, and then I left New York and moved to Kansas City and met him about a year later. And in typical ADHD fashion, he moved into my apartment in three months. And we were married in two years. And it was, it was not a great marriage. Okay. And one could say we rushed into things. Okay. And then I was married for 11 years, had two kids. Uh-huh. We tried. We tried. I've written a says about that. We tried so hard. And I, you know, for a minute, I thought the ADHD diagnosis was going to fix things. And that was a little too, I was a little too over ambitious with that. In some ways, it almost created more problems because then we didn't, when we would go to marriage counseling, we weren't focusing on communication issues or anything. It was always like, the focus was just like, well, you have ADHD. You're the one whose brain is broken. You're the one who needs to fix things. You're the one who needs to be fixed. And I was, I'm over here like also doing therapy and also, you know, dealing with my own shit and trying to. you know, grow and heal. And then going into these marriage counseling sessions where that's also the focus. And so we didn't, we weren't able to repair the marriage. Like too much damage had been done, not just because of my ADHD, but for many reasons. And, you know, no one is perfect. And we were, I think, very poorly matched. But the ADHD definitely exacerbated all of that, you know. Yeah. So 11 years after we got married, we got divorced. And so that was what at the end of 2023. So

I've been officially divorced, I don't know, six, nine months or something, but a year and a half out of marriage. Yeah. Well, we want to talk about a couple things, of course, like when it comes to this kind of thing. I mean, I wrote this quote. This was from one of the articles. And you just said back then we weren't thinking about attachment styles, emotional labor, postpartum anxiety, neurodivergence, career struggles, money problems, or how we might

handle being confined to a modest bungalow with a preschooler and an infant for 453 days straight. We also had no idea how profoundly my hyperfocus on hobbies, how. projects and side hustles would trigger him and lay the groundwork for a lifetime of resentment. There's a lot happening there. Yeah. And that quote. And like you said, I mean, it just sounds like you said you rushed into things and these things weren't really considered.

And it just sounds like it all maybe came crashing down. Yeah. Because we thought, you know, we were both so excited about each other in the beginning because on paper we were such a good match. And I was like, oh, you guys are perfect for each other. We had a lot of shared interests. We like a lot of the same music. We liked to travel for concerts and we were both food people.

And there were just so many things we had in common and we focused on those things. And we didn't focus so much on our values. And I'm not saying like he's not a trumper. And, you know, like in general, we share like the very basic values of humanity. But as far as the way that a family unit operates, we knew we wanted kids. But we didn't ever. We talked about like private school, public school, charter school. But like we never really discussed our values in a marriage or how a family would operate or our needs for personal space and alone time, how we would spend money, the big value you should talk about ahead of time.

Just so many of those things we didn't because on my end, I was like, I was, you know, hyper fixated on this fun new relationship and planning a wedding and having a baby and buying a house and decorating the house and painting the house and fixing up the house. and it took us 11 years to finally be like, oh, this is, this is not working and it probably never really worked past that initial hyperfixation excitement stage. Yeah. I mean, whether you've ADHD or not, I think it's really relatable to meet somebody and it's fun and you share all these same hobbies and interests. I mean, I connect with people over food more than anything and it's really exciting for me and to want to like rush in and be like, I found my person. You know, I think that that's even outside of ADHD pretty common. But I was reading about 80 each this morning and it said in romantic relationships it does tend to

make people impulsively date and it's hard to regulate your emotions. So you just go full send. I don't know if you relate to that. But prior to meeting your ex-husband, what was dating like? Was it highs and lows across the board? I mean, it was a hot mess. It was disaster. And I think, I think, you know, I think that is probably part of the reason I rushed into that marriage because I was dating in New York. I was undiagnosed. I was in my 20s. I was drinking a lot. And I had like ADHD, undiagnosed ADHD at least, gives you like by default social anxiety. Okay. At least me.

And most people I know. Uh-huh. Because you're like, I'm a little weird. I don't know. I'm a little weird. I'm a little weird. I'm a direct. I don't know.

I'm direct. I talk a lot. I talk too much. I overshare. People think I'm weird. And I drink too much. And then I would do that. I would like, I started online dating when I was really young.

Like when it was just like the weirdos. It was actually kind of more fun back then. No, the early days. I remember getting on Tinder. I'm like, is this legal? This is too much fun. You know, like early days. Tinder. You were on OKCupid? I was on. Oh, you mean like, oh, okay, cupid. No, no, no, no, wait for it. Love at AOL in the year 2000. I was 17. I was 17. Oh my God. You were the original online dater. You were finding Dick on the Internet at page of zero. No, did not find Dick. I mean, I didn't, I didn't go near the dick. But it was gross, especially in independent. in Missouri. And then I moved to New York. I used that for a hot minute. And then there was OKCupid. But before that, like, I used to write for Nerve.com. I don't know if you remember NERF.com. So I was, I edited

their pop culture blog for two years. But even before that, I used their personals. And it was like the same personal system as the onion and a few other. So I would, no, I was like on websites. Got it. On actual dating website. Okay. Kupid felt new and fresh. By the time I left the online dating world, OKCupid was like the place to be. Because Match was to. like serious, people who just like wanted to get married. A little older. Yeah, older people.

I got rejected from E-Harmony. No. For being too cool and too young. I don't know for being an atheist in Kansas City. They were just like, we have no matches for you. We can't. I see. We can't put you in our system because there is no one who will want you.

No one will want you. Wow. Thanks. E-Harmony. Isn't this your job to facilitate this for people? You're like not Missouri. But I think that's also when they like weren't allowing gay people on the site. Oh, okay.

Can we talk about the. drinking because you talk about self-medicating in the book. And I have a friend who I think is undiagnosed with ADHD and I know he is severe social anxiety, which causes him to overdrink. And I watch it, I watch it happen. And I think like it must be hard to be in your head like that. So what is your experience like? Yeah. I mean, I started drinking when I was 14 because I wanted to feel like I could talk to people and especially boys. And so I would go to parties and, you know, drink some pink wine coolers and then I felt like I could relax and just like talk to people. I wasn't as self-conscious and I just could kind of be more myself. And the, you know, the more

pink wine coolers I drink, the more I got a little slutty. No. I mean, I'm 14. This is relatable to us. Yeah, exactly. And so then I just, yeah, I got into this weird cycle of just like, even in my 20s, like I didn't know how to go on a date without drinking. But then I would even. either get self-conscious and drink too much, or I would be like, this is so fun. And I would drink more. And either way, I would drink way too much. And then either hook up or not hook up, and it, you know, crash and burn. And I think that's part of the reason I rushed into the marriage when I moved to Kansas City because I was like, I do want to get married and have a family. And all of my dating life, I mean, I had a couple of serious boyfriends, but like, it had mostly

been a disaster. Okay. And I was like, this person has a lot of the things that I want in a person and he wants to marry me and I want to get married and have a family. And so it just felt like, well, I should do it. Like, let's do this thing. You know? Because dating had been such a disaster for me. And like get off this hamster wheel. Like, let's- Yes. Yes. I think I even say that in the book. I wanted to get off the hamster wheel of that kind of dating that I was doing. But I, oh, back to the drinking. See, I go on tangents. But I did quit drinking for six months. Okay. And that's when I met my husband. I wasn't drinking. Okay. And so and again, I thought like, oh my God, this is. this is great. Like these dates have gone so, everything's gone so great. I didn't necessarily

connect the dots that it was really because I wasn't drinking. I mean, a little bit, but I don't think I was as dialed into how much that effect. Like in my mind, I was like, we probably would have hit it off anyway. But maybe not. Like maybe I would have gotten really drunk and blown it up on the first date. I don't know. Do you drink now? I do drink. Okay. I probably still drink too much sometimes. But I quit drinking for six months because I like in this self-medicating cycle, right? I was drinking so much. And I was like, oh, my God, am I an alcoholic? You know, do I have bipolar? Do I have depression? Do I have anxiety? Do I have chronic fatigue syndrome? Am I an alcoholic? So all, you know, I would cycle through these things.

Do I need to quit gluten? Like, I would cycle through everything. Dairy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I did. Quit dairy for a while too. And so I was like, I'm going to quit. I know I was like, I'm going to quit. I'm just going to quit drinking. Well, it's right after I moved to Kansas City, actually, that I actually finally quit. I was like, I'm going to quit for six months and just see how it goes and try dating. I thought I was going to write a book about dating while I wasn't drinking and then like a month into what I met the guy I'm married. So the book didn't happen. But then I was able to go back to drinking in a much more adult way. Yeah. Okay. And sometimes I still find myself like, oh, God, I'm, I'm drinking more than I want to drink and I'll take a little break. Uh-huh. Because I tend to do things to excess in

general, like all or nothing, all in, right? Like, so, and now, you know, I'm 42. I can't drink like I used to, but I used to go out and just drink whiskey all night, you know, and now it's like, I'll have a, I have drink some immoros. I like some bubbly wine, drinking a groney. And if I'm out with my girlfriends and having fun, like sometimes, yes, I will still have one nagroney too many. But it sounds like the motivation is not the same and you recognize that. Right. And your story in relation to drinking sounds similar to ours. I mean, you drink, you want to feel more comfortable in social situations. We're also insecure when we're younger.

You just kind of start drinking to excess. And then, you know, it causes you to hook up with somebody you may not have and all these things. And you get older. And at least the way that I feel that I think that we feel is we drink in moderation because we just enjoy it. We enjoy the socializing, the tastes. And it's not so much of like all the other.

motivations you had when you were younger. Right. And doing it to excess. Okay, we're just going to take a quick break to talk about a couple of our partners. Vacation season is nearly upon us. And this year I'm treating myself to a lux upgrade that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. You guys know I just like pack out my closet with Quince.

Like the lightweight European linen styles from $30. And they have washable silk tops, comfy lounge sets. I mean, all the stuff that I want to toss into my bag to travel and just wear on LA, which is perfect. And the best part, all quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And they do this by partnering directly with top factories. I love everything I've ever gotten from them. The styles are great and classic. If you aren't looking to a capsule wardrobe, it's really fantastic for that. The pricing for the quality is unbelievable. It's totally unbelievable. I just keep shopping. And even like, the other day I was like, I just

want like a cuter, just flirtier pair of like pajama shorts, just got on there. so cute. They're like a washed silk. Their silk is amazing. The silk dresses for summer. It's all you need. And they wash the washing machine. I like their purses.

I like their accessories. They have engagement rings. You bought your engagement ring. Ashley's engagement ring. They have everything. The jewelry is so nice. They have luggage and travel accessories. You can just like upgrade your whole life at a very, very affordable price.

Like sometimes you see these prices and you're like, this is going to be junk. Not with quince. No, no, no, no. So for your next trip, treat yourself to the Lux Upgrades user with Quince. Go to quince.com slash GGE for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your orders. That's QINCE.com slash GGE to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash GGEE. Okay.

And hungry root, this is just the most incredible way to have a fridge stocked of delicious food and recipes that are super quick and easy to make. It really is like having a personal nutritionist. They take care of all the stressful meal planning each week. by recommending delicious recipes tailored to your taste, nutrition preferences, and health goals. They really make it easy to eat high quality, nutritious food, and achieve any diet or health goal you might have. So you're going to go on, you're going to take this fun quiz, and they're going to tell you their recommendations, but you can just shop the site. I mean, they have everything.

They just have, again, a bunch of recipes that can be made in just 15 minutes or less, and they will give you all the ingredients to make those. So I'm looking right now, there's a tortellini mariner with sausage, even like breakfast, pancakes and syrup, zesty chicken kuskous bowl, roasted salmon and sweet potato on Brussels. And they, again, are going to give you that recipe with all those ingredients. But you guys can check this out for everything, you know, just your snacks and your standalone items, your condiments and their meats and poultry and seafood is all really good high quality. That means so much to me. Like I've used a lot of various services throughout the years. And like sometimes you just, the meat, or the fish or the

salmon, you're like, what is this? What's happening here? So I really trust them and I love everything. I've gotten for them. And this is just great. It's just going to take the work out of grocery shopping and meal plan and all that stuff and really, really high quality stuff and everything you could want to stock your fridge and pantry. So you are going to love hungry root as much as we do. Take advantage of this exclusive offer. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box plus a free item in every box for life, go to hungryroot.com slash gge and use code gge. That's hungry root.com slash gge code gge to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Hungry root.com slash gge code gge. And this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can

really feel like a big investment, but the state of your mind is just as important as your physical health. So talking numbers in general, traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which really adds up fast for most people. And with BetterHelp Online Therapy, you can save, on average, up to 50% per session. We love that. With Better Help You pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you can get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help

you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it. And now it's within reach. So obviously, big fans of therapy, it can help you with really anything. whether you're struggling with something personally at work or you want to work on your goals or, like I said, anxiety, stress, trauma, anything in between. And it will just empower you to be the best version of yourself. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient to, you can join a session with

the click of a button and help you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time, which is great. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash gGE today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash g-g-e. Okay, let's get back into it. Can we talk about the difference between like men and women with ADHD? We kind of talked about it a little bit, but you talk in the book about how like motherhood kind of was the straw that broke the camel's back and so much falls on women in terms of like maintaining a marriage and a child and things like that and why it just sort of seems to manifest for women in those phases of life. I can only speak to my experience, really. But for me, it was like, I had been

working so hard to just like function as a neurotypical person. Because I didn't know I was, I didn't know for sure I had ADHD then, right? So I'm still masking. I'm still like trying to do the married homeowner working, like working mom thing, like working wife. Like my husband's one of his biggest frustrations with me was that I couldn't tell him when I would be home for dinner and I couldn't do a regular meal plan and I couldn't get dinner on the table for two people multiple nights a week. I could barely feed myself and I was always working late. And just the struggle of just trying to survive a nine to five life for me, that is that's not something even now, even medicated, I don't think I could do a nine to five desk job. I would, I've never had one of those longer than nine months. My job now, I work from home. I have some flexibility. that works for me. But I just was, it was so hard for me to even maintain that sense of neurotypical normalcy in a marriage. And adding a kid to the mix, I think two things happened. One, there were just hormonal changes in my body, right? Yeah. I ended up having, what I now recognize was some pretty severe postpartum anxiety. Sure. But it didn't get,

it wasn't diagnosed. Right. Partially, I think, because I was masking, right? Like, so I would go to the doctor and she'd be like, how are you? I'm like, fine, great. Everything's great. Having some problems breastfeeding, but I'm fine. But in reality, I was like obsessing over my breast milk and logging like every single thing, like every single pump and every feed and how much and all of his poops and all of his pees and when he woke up, when he went to sleep. And I didn't let anybody put him to bed for the first year of his life and I'm obsessed with car seat safety. And I was just like, it was intense postpartum anxiety. And was that just purely postpartum anxiety? Or was it partially my undiagnosed untreated ADHD

manifesting in response to this new life and this hormonal change and I don't know I think it's all kind of a spectrum and a mess anyway so there's that and then there's also all of the executive function that comes along with being responsible for another human's life and then also trying to maintain a marriage

and a job and work and I just hit a goddamn wall I cannot do all of this anymore oh my God. I was hanging it on by a thread in the marriage. And like, if I'm doing well in my marriage, my work is suffering. And if I'm doing well at work, my marriage is suffering. And now we're adding like a whole other human who's super needy and attached to my boob. And how am I supposed to do all of this? And then I just kind of crashed and burned. That was when I had this entire, I read about it in the book like this entire breakdown of just all of my life systems. Right. It's a lot for anybody. I mean, you're talking, I'm like a stressed out

about this. Yeah. Yeah. We're not doing that. And I do think that all mothers or most mothers, especially working mothers, but probably most people who have babies experience some level and some version of this if they have a partnership and a job and a child, right? And some men probably experience a lighter version, a diet version of that. It was just overwhelming. And one thing a lot of people like to say to me, everybody's a little ADHD. Everybody has a little ADHD. Yes, everyone gets overwhelmed. Everyone is late to think sometimes.

everyone forgets to eat everyone. I mean, maybe. Everyone gets stressed out and, like, can't focus sometimes or hyperfocus is on something sometimes. And I say, okay, the difference, though, do these things chronically and majorly affect your life? Mm-hmm. Or are they just things that happen sometimes? Mm-hmm.

And in my case, it was, like, chronic issues in my life because of these things. Mm-hmm. Okay. I thank you for differentiating it because I think a lot of people are probably listening, thinking like, I do this. Like, I'm late to stuff, but like you call it time blindness, which is like I just, can you like explain to that a little bit? Yeah. So time blindness is so the title of the book is kind of based on the idea of time blindness. Sure. Where I think like, oh, I have plenty of time to get ready for this thing. Got it. Plenty of time. I have time to

take a shower and wash my hair and do my makeup. And I'll totally be on time. Even today. Like I took the kid to school, walked the dog, did a few things, checked him with work. I was like, got to take a shower. I'll have time to do my hair. Set up my little closet studio, whatever. Like the back of my hair is still at, y'all. Like I didn't have time. You look great. You've been very charming this whole time. Yeah. You always have like a look, even like I love your whole vibe. The red lip, the glasses, all of it. Yeah. Thank you. So I always just say, I think I have enough time. Always. I always think I have enough time. And even if I give myself extra time, somehow that time still disappears. Always. It just always somehow disappears.

And when I tell someone I'm leaving in five minutes, I 100% believe I'm leaving in five minutes. But then it's like, the five minutes disappears. And it's like I often don't know when I am. I'm late a lot. And I always think I have time. And I read this thing that just means I'm really optimistic. I like that. Optimistic people are late because they think like, I have time.

This will be fine. Everything is going to work out. There's not going to be traffic. And, you know. I like that reframing of the narrative. Thanks. Yeah. I love it.

It's great. It's great for me. I'm time optimistic, time positive. Maybe I'm jumping around a little bit, but you told this story in the book that I really related to from the other side of things. So I'll tell you of my experience and I want to talk to you about the story because I dated somebody who probably had undiagnosed ADHD. He has it now.

But things like details were a real problem. He would book a hotel for a vacation. It wouldn't really be in the right part of town. He would tell me the address to something. It would be the totally wrong address for a doctor's appointment. No matter what, I left him up to like dates and times. of special events, it was always wrong. And it would make me go, I was young, I was my early 20s.

It would make me go bizarre because I felt like I just, I can't trust you to handle these little details that are important. Like I've scheduled my whole day around meeting with a doctor's appointment, but you don't really have the address. And you told this story in the book about your husband, by the way, I was really young and I was a brat and I didn't understand mental health. And I'm better now. But you tell the story in the book about going on a vacation with your husband,

I think for your anniversary to this tree house. And he had planned it. and you had like forgotten to schedule the babysitter on the right day. This was part of that whole system breakdown actually that I talk about. And I had, what I had done is hyper-focused on trying to get all of my work done and everything in order. And I was trying so hard to get all of the details because I'm a person who would never get all my work done. And I would take my laptop on vacation. And then my husband would be mad at me because I was working while we were supposed to be having a romantic weekend.

So I was like, I'm going to hyper-focus. So my hyper-focus had been on getting all of my work done. ahead of time so that I could go to the vacation and not have my computer. I was like, this is the thing that's most important to him. So this is what I'm going to focus on. I'm going to focus all of my energy on this. And it wasn't that I didn't care about the other details. I did.

But it's that because all of my energy was focused on getting my work done, so I would not take my laptop. I fucked up everything else. It's certainly not about not caring. And I think understanding that this is how people function, it allows you to have kindness for them, that you focused on the one thing on the top of the list. It was the most important, you thought. Yeah. I thought. And that's something I say to people, I often get asked now, like, what is one piece of advice you would give to someone who has an ADHD partner? And I say,

do not take their ADHD personally. It is not about you. It's not that they don't care about you. It's not that they don't love you. Their brain is functioning in the way that it's trying to do its best. And sometimes that means they're going to miss details or not give you the attention. you want or have split attention because they need to focus on work because they got behind it work. But it's not about you. And I think that was a big problem in my marriage is that my husband took my ADHD so personally. Yeah, I had a partner with ADHD as well. And I like look back and some of these like huge fights, which we had a lot of issues. But some of those really big ones were I don't know, this time we were supposed to pick me up. We were supposed to go to this friend's wedding.

And he thought he had enough time to go across town and pick something up and run this errand. there was just like nowhere near close enough time. It blew up the day. It blew up the wedding. Like I couldn't get past it. And so, you know, and that was informed by previous things that had happened. But obviously, yeah,

it was like taking it personally and not keeping in mind that he didn't do this as a personal attack. He thought he had enough time to go run the errand, you know. And so it was just a lot of instances like that. And so I really appreciate that you gave that advice for anyone listening there too. I also say like don't partner. with someone who has ADHD, if you are a person who's, like, very concerned with being on time,

like, if you're the kind of person who's, like, really mad when people are five minutes late, me, do you're that kind, do not date a person with ADHD. You're in for a world of hurt arguments. If you can't have a sense of humor about your relationship and about your partner, do not date a person with ADHD. Yeah. I like the advice and it's important. And it just, like you said, it helps me to not take it personally because I would really go like berserk about this stuff. And it's not personal. No one wants to forget a detail. or mess something like that up and it has nothing to do with you. I'm sure that everybody would love to be functioning at 110% when it comes to these things. Yeah. So we want to talk a little bit

about the finality of your relationship and I was just watching this reel that you would post it and kind of the overall message was just not just do it, just get divorced, but just, you know, like it's going to be tough, but it will lead you to more happiness down the road. And also I pulled this, I think it's a title from something that you wrote and it says, I chose my career over my marriage because it brought me more joy. And that sounds a little reductive like, oh, like, but I wanted you to obviously explain it and you wrote a whole article about it. But I started to throw two questions at you, but I wanted to kind of talk about both of these things like the career playing into it and then actually the decision to end the marriage. Yeah. Well, you know, going,

what we were talking about earlier, you know, at home and my growing up even, I wasn't getting a lot of validation at home, but I was at school. And so that's where I put my energy. And in my marriage, I realized I was kind of repeating a lot of the same patterns in my marriage, because don't we all, don't we all just like go and repeat our childhood and before we do enough therapy and figure it out? And so I was in this marriage where my husband shouldn't have had an ADHD wife. He needs a neurotypical partner, right? So he did take my ADHD personally, and he didn't have a sense of humor about my hyperfixations. And so my marriage was kind of miserable. I mean, he was always upset with me and disappointed with me and mad at me and not that he wasn't justified sometimes.

Like there were things that were legitimately frustrating that he had every right to be frustrated with. We just weren't a good match. But I get a lot of validation from my work where I put a lot of my focus and a lot of my energy and a lot of my passion. I also tried really hard to be a good partner. I tried everything I could and I exhausted the limits of my humanity to try and make my marriage work. I just, I couldn't do anything else. It sounds like it. That's when I decided like this isn't. I can, I can either choose joy and, and my own happiness for the rest of my life, or I can struggle in this for the rest of my life. And I was in the shower, thinking, crying, because that's where I would go to cry after masking. Again, going to go into the shower

to cry. We're all crying the shower. Yeah. Didn't want my kids to see me, you know. And I thought to myself, if I stay in this marriage, in this miserable marriage, I know for a fact that when I am old and on my deathbed, I'm going to regret it. And I also know that if I can just get through this really hard, icky part of divorcing with kids and just divorce is hard and it's sad and there's a house to sell. I knew it was going to be messy. But I was like, I know that if I can get through this, I'm going to be so much happier on the other side. And I am so much happier. We love to hear that. Congratulations. And it sounds like you tried everything. You went to therapy. You got a diagnosis. And it's hard to feel like it's not enough for another person. And we did a lot of

couple's therapy. You know, he tried too. We just, no one's the bad guy here. We just were poorly matched. I really like discussing the type of person that could be with a person with ADHD. And like, I don't obviously know your ex-husband at all. But you mentioned the sense of humor about it. And I think just hearing a little bit more about your marriage makes me understand what you mean. You know, you just need someone that is not so tightly wound that can laugh some of the stuff. Oh, that's just how she's going to be. You know, that's just how he's going to be. You know, that's just how he's going to be. and that's just not everybody. And you can't make yourself

be that type of person if you're not that type of person. You know, I think about my current fiance and I think he really current fiancee's funny. Current. Why did I say it like that? There might be another one.

Hey, you never know. You never know. He's my first fiance. This fiance. This one. Unlike. Okay, JLo. Like my current one.

Well, he's a little bit out of luck. Not to be mistaken for the last three. Exactly. And he just, he puts up with a law with me. I mean, you know, I am late. I can be really scattered. I always have to work on our trips.

You know, I try my best to get all my work done. But it's kind of he just really goes with it. He makes fun of me. Like he'll always quote me. He's like, I just have to do 30 minutes of work. I just for do 30 minutes of work. You know, he really rolls with the punches. I'm not diagnosing myself with ADHD.

But like those qualities that would fall into that bucket. I have some. I think we all have some. And he really just is very relaxed and go with the flow. and you know for those quirks that I have that you know also deal with like a person that can get really hyper focus and you know gifted as well and I think I need a neurodivergent partner probably you think it would work better with someone better okay yeah it just it sounds like you need somebody that has a little bit more of a sense of humor about this and I just I kind of not that I like

don't in my younger years I definitely didn't it's it's hard for me for somebody that's just like can't really get out of the house. And like I should have more of a sense of humor and more kindness. And I think these kind of conversations allow you to do that, allow you to see that like, can you just reframe it? It's kind of cute that she like, you know, has to run back into the house to like, fill up a water bottle, grab a sweater and then answer an email and then we're 15 minute plate and talking about it. I had to do it. Getting my kid to preschool this morning had to run back in twice because we forgot the extra shoes. And I was like, oh shit, I forgot the fruit snacks for the class snack. So even with my with my, with my five year old, I had to run back in twice.

It's so funny. I didn't realize you were talking about me just that. Yeah. But like, Every time we're in the lounge at the airport, like we're about to leave. It's time to go. We're on a time schedule. And I just always have to do one more thing. And you've been really good. You laugh at all. I've been having a lot of sex lately.

I'm not really chill about it. But I also know this about Ashley. And I know that when she says it's time to walk to the gate, what she really means is I have to I just have to go the bathroom. And then on the way out, I just to fill my water bottle. Like when she says, it's, we were staying together in La Jolla. And I was like, are you ready to go? And she was like, I just have to answer this email.

I just have to go to the bathroom. I just have to change my pants. It's all when she sat down just to answer an email and I thought we were on the way out the door, I was like, is this, is this serious? We used to talk to the customer support person at Revolve. But like, there's so many other good things about Ashley. She works really hard. She will work all night long and, you know.

But some people couldn't deal. They'd be like, I can't, you know, when I've watched other couples, I guess, kind of have those things that like the, I just have to run back into the house. I forgot my phone. whether, you know, I'm thinking about a girlfriend of mine. And the way her husband reacted was poorly. It was, he was annoyed. He's resentful. You can't deal with that day to day. I mean, it's going to fracture your relationship. So, I mean, I know that going forward, like, I need someone who is very secure because I am, I'm doing a lot of things on my own, someone who's really secure

and has a really good sense of humor and who can go with the flow and roll with the punches. And if Plans change, not take it personally and not get pissed at me and just be like, okay, well, what's the new plan? What are we going to do? Let's swing it. Oh, yeah. Like, I am the kind of person who often will get derailed on a road trip. Maybe I got lost. Maybe I wanted to stop at an antique market or a thrift store or like check out a little town for something to eat. You know, and I just don't. I'm like, okay, whatever. My trip's derail by a few hours, fine. Like, whatever. I'm going to enjoy it. I'm going to enjoy it. I'm going to enjoy. And that's kind of the theme of the final essay in the book called the scenic route. But like plans change. Shit happens. right? Like I think I got so good at rolling with the punches because I had to because when I was younger and undiagnosed and untreated like I just fuck shit up all the time. So I had to. I had to roll with the punches. And so that's the kind of person I am now. Some people are just also naturally good at that. And I think I need a person like that in my next partner. And I think somebody that can just say, you know, we all have our own brand of what's annoying and hard to deal with. And you need somebody that's excited about all the other stuff and all like that you can be whimsical and you can't pause and like go to some other town for two hours and just be like silly and spontaneous and like that's a great quality and so somebody that finds it like charming that you do things like that and my my ex would never stop he would never do real a road trip to like stop at an antique mall or a thrift store and i i should have probably not married him because of that um but i was you know again i was in that hyper focus right like like if i i will never get into a really

relationship with someone who refuses to do that again. There you go. That's the, that's the bar. Yeah. And so dating now, you're single, you're on the scene. What's the vibe? Oh, it's a roller coaster now. I am dating. And it's not like it was when I was younger, obviously. It's, I have a lot more self-awareness and maturity and generally drink a lot less. And I have, I no longer, I'm like, I want to get married and have kids. And so that's a really nice place to be where I'm like, I don't have an agenda. Yeah. And I would like to have a partner someday.

I would like to have a functioning partnership that's happy with someone who does get me and appreciate the good things about me and who also can live with the more frustrating things. But dating is also a dopamine seeking activity. Mm. Okay. And I find myself repeating some patterns that I was less aware of when I was younger. Interesting. And part of it, I talk early in the book about like the shame that I sometimes felt and the awkwardness and like the just the low self-esteem that I had as a young person. And I also am not great with ambiguity.

So in order for me to be like this person likes me, they need to be very explicit about the fact that they like me and they're into me. And I've I've been caught off guard both before marriage and after learning that like a guy friend was into me. And I just like I didn't pick up on it. I did not get it. I totally missed all the signals because they weren't explicit with me about the fact that they were into me. And so I tend to date men who are very clear that they are very into me and that they're like excited to date me. And that is also generally like the beginning of a dumpster fire because those, right? Because the person who's like, I don't even want to call it love bombing because I feel like love bombing is this like intentional weird.

thing, but like people who like too much too soon, because I do that too. And I can't, because it's so fun and exciting, like, I can't resist it and I get caught up in it. I'm hyper-focused on it. And it's like, I've had a few of these now or it's like, oh, he really likes me. I really like him. We're just going to like, and it's like, in my brain, I'm like, Emily, you are the woman in the horror movie running up the stairs while a guy is chasing you with an axe. Why are you running up the stairs? Like, get the hell out of the house. And I know. I know it's happening. I know it's happening, but I still do it. So if you have that confusion or that ambiguity, does that make you spiral? I mean, do you really need it to kind of stay more balance? If I don't feel like the person is, and I get some of this also probably comes from having a marriage where I felt like my spouse just didn't like me and I don't think he did. Like if I don't feel like this person is like excited and eager to see me and wants to see me and wants to date me, I'm just like it used to be I would spiral. Even like leaving my marriage and like, what's going on?

Like I would feel anxious. And I recently decided like, I don't, I don't have time for that. I don't want to feel that way. I don't deserve to feel that way. I don't need to feel that way. So like if I sense even like a subtle shift in energy, right? I'm like, I think they're not as excited about this as they were. And then I'm just like, nah, I think I'm done.

Okay. Like I'm not going to get like let myself get anxious about it. And so there are these patterns, I think, that are repeating. and it makes dating very fun and also a bit of a challenge. Yeah. It's a challenge for everybody. Yeah, it's a challenge for me. I mean, it's a challenge for everybody.

And it sounds like you're at least aware of the patterns that you have and not leaning into them and what feels familiar or, you know, really leading with like, I want to be somebody that likes me. Yeah. That should be the goal. You know, like I was joking about how Ashley is, but like I can laugh it off the latest because I love her. And she brings out their good things to the table.

And like, that's what. we should be able to do it with everybody and say like we all have flaws, but they're so great in all these other ways. But it's not a flaw to not want ambiguity. I mean, it's, we should all be searching for somebody that we know they like us and they're showing up for her and they're texting us back and they're making plans. And of course, there's too much and there's too much too soon. But like that also still should be the goal. Yes. Yes. It's just I just get a little too excited in the people that they're really, you know, right. A little too much too soon feels really fun and exciting. Yeah. Okay. I now I kind of see what you're what you're finding the issue to be is like the

dopamine seeking. So. But it's not a bad. I know. It's hard for me. It's hard for me to find a balance because I really get excited when somebody wants to text me and see me and they make plans and they're intentional. And I feel the tiniest energy shift. And I'm just like, well, I'm out. Yep. You know, I don't, I'm not the girl that keeps texting and pushing. And it's hard to find the balance, you know, because I think that people are busy and not everybody's textiles are like yours, you know. And who can keep up that much energy, right? Like in the beginning, everybody's excited about everything. However, when you have ADHD and you hyperfocus and like you put all like it's multiplied, it's magnified.

So think of that early dating excitement when you have ADHD. It's magnified. I luckily have gotten to a point where I have enough self-awareness about it that I can turn off the emotional part and just be like, I'm having a lot of fun with this right now. And I'm going to like suck all the fun out of this that I possibly can without getting emotionally attached. Okay. Good. Yeah. But then I think is that preventing me from building a relationship? I don't, I don't know. It's all hard, you know. Yeah. But it's fun and hopefully you enjoy the journey a little bit. I am. I'm having so much fun. Like, even though dating is frustrating, like, I am having so much fun. In Kansas City. Yeah. Yeah. Shockingly. Yeah. Though every time something blows up,

I'm like, something just blew up yesterday. But every time something blows up, I'm just like, oh, God, like, am I going to find somebody you I have like such good banter with who's smart in Kansas City who's like single and in his 40s. I don't know if that person exists. But you know what? I love this. Somebody always shows up. I think you're going to get them and this. Divorce guys.

I love them. Someone else has trained them. You don't have all the terrible habits of a man who's never been married. You're going to get him on the second round. But you don't want a freshly divorced man. Stay far, far away from freshly divorced. You can't be the first person post-divor.

We're looking 18 months after divorce. At least. At least. A couple other people under his bowel that he's dated. You got to see how, like, clean he can keep his home without a wife. Totally. But I have hope for you. And listen, it's really brave to say, like, I'm married to somebody for 11 years.

I have two kids. I could just stay and I choose me instead. Oh, I had a question for you. Do you tell them about the ADHD early on? Yes. It's not on, well, all my dating profiles are paused right now because there's, it's same people over and over, you know. I'm bored. The dopamine's gone there for now.

I need to give it a break. But on my hinge profile, it says, dating me is like, it's one of the prompts. And I say having 75 tabs open. And I feel like other neurodivergent people know exactly what that means. That's your coded language. Absolutely. And so, but I don't, I also like hide my identity on my hinge. My name is just M. And I say, I'm a writer. Because I don't, there is so much about me that you can just Google, like, and find all of these essays I read about my divorce and my book. You know, like I don't, I wouldn't want someone who I hadn't gone out with yet to find that information. And so I don't disclose the.

that before a date, but I always do on the first date because I'm an oversharer and I can't help, but it's part of your personnel. It's like, why would you not open with it? But, you know, I'm not ashamed of my ADHD and I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. I just, I just don't put it on my dating profiles, though there's that 75 tabs thing. And then, yeah, I'm always very forthcoming with it. Have you gotten on field? No, but I heard you talking about it. Was it earlier this week? I just think you should, like, I can't recommend it enough. I've never been on it. But brain has just been having such a good time. But here's what I was thinking. It's sounded amazing. It sounds amazing. Like, hearing you talk about it, I want to, I'm tempted. However, I believe, and maybe I'll just get on and lurk. But yeah, it's, I feel like it's going to be a very different experience in Kansas City than it is in L.A. I mean, everybody in L.A. is like a little, you know, like when I was in New York, everybody's a little, a little bit of a freak, a little bit normal. Yeah, you really could find some people who have like some bodies in their basement in Kansas City. It's not a very big city. Like I, I had no idea.

how many of my friends were in open marriages until I got back on online dating. Oh my God. Or who are looking for a third. That's crazy. And I'm just like, who are on field. Just get on field and lurk. Yeah, you'll get, you'll, I feel like you'll be able to suss people out if they seem too scary.

But I just think why not? And, you know, maybe that's where the ADHD people are because there's one partner is enough, you know, they, you know, their own. But see, here's another problem, though. Like, I like, I want everything all the time, but I'm also a monogamist. Like, I don't. My brain can't hyper focus on two relationships, you know. Oh, I put that in my profile.

Mine says I want a life partner, want monogamy, I'm too vanilla to be here. I'm just like, no, no, no, I'm hundreds of messages. But again, L.A. Yeah. L.A. versus Kansas. I just like, I think just, just give it a try. Just get on there and lurk and see how you feel. Yeah.

I'll try. But all I'm going to find is a bunch of people I already know who want a third or have a Well, isn't that fun? Then you have some good gossip for brunch, you know? Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that's a great place to wrap up. We really love this conversation.

I mean, this was new and different. And I'm curious, like, you have your book and you're obviously writing. Is there anything you're working on now or do you have plans? Well, I mentioned earlier that many years ago, I timed out of reading comprehension on the GRE, because I wanted to go to grad school and get an MFA. So even though I don't really need an MFA anymore, I just got accepted into an MFA program. So I'm going to, thank you. I'm going to take a few years. I'm going to do like an extended version and take my time so I can still work.

And I have an idea for another book, but I'm going to. I don't want to say it, say it out loud. And people, then I'm going to feel the pressure to do it. And then I'm going to lose my excitement for it and then not do it. Well, when it's locked in, let us know. Yeah. And your Instagram is great and you're really open about your divorce and your relationship and you have a substack. People can subscribe to, I think.

Yes, I need. I'm very, very overdue in sending it. But I am that Emily Ferris, all. over the internet and it's Ferris is F-A-R-R-I-S and I have substack, website, Instagram, all over. Perfect. And your book is available anywhere that you can buy books? Anywhere you can buy books. I recommend buying it.

You know, I like independent bookstores. Totally. That's so. Yeah. It's called I'll just be five more minutes. It's full of just anecdotes and stories and it's really just raw and honest. And it's an easy read for neurodivergent people because it's a, there are a few longer essays, but it's a lot of really short essays and quick reads.

Okay. Well, thank you so much again. And we love talking to you and you guys follow her everywhere, get the book, do all the things. Yeah. Thank you so much just for your openness and honestly, this is really great. Thank you. This was so fun. Thanks. Bye. Well, we hope you guys enjoyed this episode. And you can find us at Girls Gotta Eat.com. We are a Girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess.com and on social. Raina is reina.org. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend and we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.