Girls Gotta Eat - Divorced Dudes and Single Moms feat. Katya Libin, founder of HeyMama

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

Are divorced guys the answer? We're unpacking it and Rayna is leaning in. Then we bring in Katya Libin, founder and CEO of HeyMama, to share her story of being a single, working mother -- the struggles and successes, building her own company, the importance of a support system, co-parenting, dating when you have a child, and more. We're also discussing walking away from a relationship you know isn't right (even when it's a month before your wedding), and how to vet someone before considering having children with them. And on the topic of mothers, Ashley shares a legendary story about her mom that we all can relate to. We hope you enjoy! Follow Katya on Instagram @KatyasLife and check out HeyMama. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Check our website for merchandise and show dates. Thank you to our partners this week: Raycon: Go to buyraycon.com/gge for 15% off your entire Raycon order. Function of Beauty: Go to functionofbeauty.com/gge to get 20% off your first order. Feals: Become a member at feals.com/gge and get 50% off your first order + free shipping. Candid: Go to candidco.com/gge code GGE for your risk-free starter kit + $75 off. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And then I pulled like a total mom move and I said, hey, this isn't going to work and, you know, we're going to separate. And we're going to get a dog. Nice. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Got to eat. Welcome to Spring. It has sprung. Spring has sprung. Farley's snowing.

Spring's a roller coaster. Okay. Oh, this week is Cindy's birthday. Oh, it is? Yeah, March 27. She'll buy her. And Francis. I love her so much.

They like the same kind of birthday. Oh, and then we met Mike and Mike and Francis's birthday party. I love me eating friends through friends. Okay. We got to talk about your face. You walked in and I was like, what is her face? Like, you look so different to me. And so I didn't say anything because I know what you've been doing.

I know what you've been doing. I know what you didn't like get any work done. You know of my skincare. I know I didn't. I know you didn't like do anything. You know, we talked about your brows. I was like, I was like, so finally you'd been in here for like 10 minutes. And I finally was like, okay, what? Why do you look so different?

Is it your, like, what is going on? I knew it was top half of your face. I knew something I was looking at was different. Okay. And what did you say? I'm not wearing any makeup. So I, so you have never seen me. I always have like mascara on.

Like always, always, always. You stay in mascara. I sleep in with my eyeliner on. Oh my God. I just do not do that. Don't. You can listen to her for. a lot of advice, not when it comes to taking your makeup off.

I don't have a skin routine. I, so first of all, I don't wear a lot of makeup in general, so I'm not one of those people. I take off my makeup and you're like, who is that? You know, you have great skin. You don't have like a thick, do you, do you, do you even really do foundation? I do like a light. No face makeup at all. I wear, I wear liquid eye liner on the top, pencil on the bottom of mascara.

That's the only makeup I wear. Yeah. But I, I usually have it on because I sleep with my mascara on. I don't know, I'm lazy. And then I, yeah, I always wear it to come over here. Always. just didn't know that because been best friends for three and a half years. I know. Like I never had makeup on, I feel like. Like I, I love putting makeup on and going out and doing stuff, especially

even more now because we had so long where we weren't getting to do stuff. So I like cherish every moment. But I don't wear makeup to leave the house. I don't care. I'm always like bare faced. But it's so funny because you think of somebody that's going to say the statement, you've never see me without makeup. And it's not somebody like you. It's somebody that's always wearing makeup that's obsessed with having to wear the makeup and no one's seeing what they really look like. But it's, I never knew how drastic it would look. You look younger. Like you look like a kid. Like you, but I don't know why. It's so weird. Like you just look like here's what it is. First of all, my eyelashes are blonde. And so like I don't like, I don't have a lot of definition around my eyes.

Because like I just don't, like that's why I always have like black eyeliner around. I have no definition around my eyes. But they're so cute. And they're like these cute little brown eyes. And I like, I have my eyebrows done now. So now I feel like I at least have some like definitely. finishing to my face in general. To the eye area. Yes. So I don't need to wear makeup. So I just was like, fuck it.

I'm rolling. Oh my gosh. You just look so cute. Your eyes are such a good brown color. Like, we're both like brown-eyed girls, but I think we have good brown eyes. We have been on so many vacations together. Yeah. Had so many late nights together.

I've stayed at your parents' house so much. Yeah, like put on mascara. The second you wake up. You brush your teeth. You're putting on mascara. Pretty much. Well, usually it's on from the night before. It's on for the night before.

But you, like, when we do it. shows, you wear a foundation or a BB cream or something? Oh, for like live shows for weddings. Like, I'm going to work it out for your brother's wedding. You do, you own makeup. Like, you I stay shopping at Sephora. Yeah, like you love Ziphora. I can wear makeup, but like date to makeup off. Day to day I don't wear any makeup. Yeah, this is day to day. I mean, any face makeup. I have a funny DM. I want to read you. I am so excited for this. Not a DM. I lied. A tweet. This was a tweet we got. She said, Psycho or Power Move got dumped and refused to get a ride home. So I walked two miles in the 30

degree weather. What? And I was like, power move and work out in one. I know. Get that revenge body immediately. She's like, I'm going to get some dick tomorrow with this new body. I'm going to, two mile walk. You got a new body. So, and then she said, we had, I responded to her. So she said, highlight of my Twitter career. Can't wait to see you in Miami. Hashtag Hayden by Sunday, which our Miami show is on Sunday. So I don't know. She obviously doesn't live Miami if she was walking in 30 degrees. Yeah.

So maybe she's coming to the show. But I just love that because that is so like, I don't know what the situation was, but it sounds like she was being stubborn, which is like a vibe. Okay. There's a funny story you told me about your mom being stubborn and walking off. I feel. Should we tell it? Yes.

Because I feel like I can envision you doing this too. I wouldn't. I would never. I would just like defuse the fight, go to sleep. You would walk two miles in the 30-year weather. There's a stubborn aspect, which I don't know where they live. I don't know if there were no Uber's. Like, I don't know the story.

But there's also like needing to walk it off, like needing to just step it out, get that rage out. Like I think it's really nice to go on a walk after you get dumped. Okay. After you get dumped, also I do, I want you to tell your mom's story. You know what night I had to walk. I had to walk like five miles by myself because we recorded with somebody. And afterwards he sent me and you this weird, he sent me and his tag.

about how he was like gonna masturbate to the sound of our voices or something or you were like to him. Yeah, I had a crush on him. I was like, I was texting with him, whatever. Like we talked on the phone. When I really liked him and then we recorded with him and then he like left the studio and you and I were out

and he like, was at the airport listening to our podcast or something. It was weird. And sent like a really weird like I'm turned on. I'm hard by the sound of your voices or something. And I left the bar and walked in the night by myself from, I don't know, gram receipt to Brooklyn alone. I walked like five miles just to like walk off this time. You had to walk it off. Yeah. Sometimes you got to walk it off. Okay. Well, before I tell this story,

Miami came up. So I do want to take this time to just talk about those shows. Our Florida shows in May. The tickets are going quick. They're selling out. You guys got to get these tickets. Miami, May 2nd, Tampa, May 5th. Cinco de Mayo, Orlando, May 6. Two shows every night. We cannot wait to see you guys. We are so, so excited. We have so much fun stuff playing. We have been talking about these shows nonstop. And all the surprise. that we're going to have in store. And like I said, you've got to get those tickets because they are going quick. Some shows are already sold out.

And you can go to Girls Got to Eat Podcast.com and click on shows and you'll see the links to get the tickets. Yes. Also, we will announce more dates eventually. So just stay up to date with the newsletter. Yes. Okay. So this story about my mom, I'll set the scene.

This is Dewey Beach a long time ago. I think it was like 2008 maybe. and it was our family vacation. So aunts, uncles, cousins, like we had this big beach house. We were actually staying in Roebuth, but obviously we were spending most of our time in Dewey, partying a lot. And this story starts at a restaurant in Dewey that has since tragically burned down, but it was called Ed's Chicken and Crabbs.

The best. Yeah, and we would bring BYOB. So we show up with a cooler, you get crabs. And it turned into us plain, full-blown flip. Cup as a family, extended family too, in the back room of Ed's. We played so many rounds of Flip Cup. Everybody was wasted. It was so nuts. It was my friend, it was my cousin Scott's friends was there. They were coming from New York. It was his birthday. It was wild. We played so much Flip Cup that we finally had to leave. The bar shut down. Corey lived in Dewey and she was like,

let's go back to my house. So the whole family walks to Corey's house and we continue this tournament of Flip Cup. I think we played like 22 rounds. And so then we're like, where everybody's so lit. And so we're like, we're going to go out. So we go to North Beach and we're like dancing. It's like so crazy. And my mom, I guess, was upset. My dad wasn't dancing with her.

So my mom was like dancing on like a platform. Like she was like full stripper mode. Like Cindy was like living her best life. She loves a dance. And my dad like doesn't dance really. I can imagine. My dad can like gyrate. What?

My dad can like slow. What? My dad can like slow dance at a wet. and like he'll, he'll spin my mom around on the dance floor, but he's not going to be, like, dancing to, like, yin-yang twins. I can't. So, like, my mom was pissed. She gets bad.

Like, she's drunk. Yeah. And she leaves the bar and starts to walk to Rojobah. So, you know, like, middle of dewey to Rojabith, not an ideal walk. Like, it's doable. It's probably, like, a mile or two. Yeah. It's a safe area.

You walk through, like, the Silver Lake area. whatever. And everybody just kind of got home on their own that night. And basically my mom took off and she was walking from Dewey to Rehoboth and she had to pee. So she went into a bush and when she's peeing in this bush, she

fell in the bush. And as she is in the bush, she sees my dad walking by. And she was so stubborn that she didn't even call out to him. And she

She let him walk by and wait until he was far enough past her husband and then she crawled out of the bush and like walked behind him home. We're like khaki shorts. We all get back to the house. Everybody finds their way back to the house. And so we were all sitting in the kitchen like late night eating and like probably eating grottoes, whatever. And my mom, I was staying at the table with my dad, Corey, a bunch of people. My mom comes downstairs, pissed still. She still pissed.

She was being like me. She was like having a tantrum. She comes down. She opens the fridge because she wanted a snack too. And my dad said some snarky shit. Like, are you still mad or something? Are you like you're still going to be mad? And she goes, fuck you, Lee.

Fuck you. And slam that fridge so hard. I had to peek into the fridge to make sure nothing broke. We heard bottles clanging. She just said fuck you twice. Slam the fridge went back upstairs. It was insane. I can't imagine.

Like your mom, I can't imagine her saying, you to anybody. She's so sweet. She's so easy to get along with. She's such, fuck you, like her voice is so sweet. I've never heard my mom say, fuck you ever, ever. And then my cousin's friend, Dan was so upset. He ran up, drunk, we're all drunk, ran up after my mom. No, no. No. To be like, Cindy is so good. Dan would have to say. Notly. Next morning. Of course, like, everybody was just like back to normal laughing. But like, this is such an epic story in our family because it's so out of character for my mom.

Like, she doesn't even really get that drunk. She doesn't ever get that mad. She's so chill. She's just like this perfect human. So it just goes to show that even angels like Cindy Hustline get drunk and petty and mad sometimes. I gotta tell you when I'm drunk,

like I take the littlest thing and I like pouted so hard about it. Like I just, I was like texting with this guy the other night. And like, I like mentioned that I was like in bed at this like hotel. and he like didn't take the bait, start, like, sexing with me at all. And I became unbearable to talk to.

I was reading through my text after this. And I'm just, I'm just pouting and being such a bitch because, like, he didn't take the bait on me, like, saying, like, I'm just in bed at the Pittsburgh Marriott. That is so funny, because we preach never take things personally. And you can't, you can't, you can't,

that's what I'm saying. I, like, reread in the morning, I was like, I became a different person. A tequila's deep. That's something nice you can do for your body. Okay. Okay, I'm glad that this came up because speaking of things that I put in my body, I have decided that like I want to have not just sex, but like a lot of sex.

Like mountains of sex. I want to have sex with a lot of people, a bunch of them frequently. This is my new goal. Every listener right now is sitting and being like, am I supposed to be surprised? I know. I was getting so much dick at the beginning of the year just like multiple times a day. And I want to go back to that like. Okay.

We have a meme alert. It's no one dot, dot, dot, dot. Raina. I was getting so much dick at the beginning of the year. You said it three times. It keeps me up. You can't stress it enough. So I actually, for the first time ever, got back out on these streets. As I actually went on Hinge, I've been talking to a lot of dudes.

Like, I'm talking to tons of dudes on Hinge. Of the, like, maybe 10 or 11 guys I'm currently messaging. 10 or 11. Oh, God. I really got in there, girl. I'm like clutching my curls. That's great. Of all the dudes I'm talking to.

Three of them brought up the podcast right away. So I just X amount. I'm like, this one guy was like, oh shit, you're like that podcast girl. You're like kind of a big deal. And I was like, no, I don't want to talk about it. I don't know. It's so weird to me because I don't know what to say. But like, I don't want somebody to lead with that.

I don't want somebody to be like, you're going to be a big deal. That makes me feel really awkward. Because what am I going to say? If we end up on a date together and they're like, I got to be honest with you, I do know your podcast. or even if they said that in a conversation, it's different than leading with it and saying something like that.

It just is. Yes, of course, we want to be well known. We're happy that you know about it. That means you have good taste. But like to lead with it and kind of fan girl is not what we want out of the gate. Well, I just didn't know what to say. I was like, okay, but anyway.

You block them. Unmatch. This is savage. One guy said to me, I have a business proposition for you. And I said, oh, what's that? He said, give me your number. I'll take you off her drink.

And I said, I'm going to kindly pass on the business proposal. thank you so much. But the other guys I'm talking to, they seem good. I'm going to go out with a couple of them. But, okay, I'm talking to, like, a couple of divorce guys. This is what I want to tell you about.

One that I met, like, in real life, who's divorced. And another one. So not a hint. Not a hint. Just like in the world. Yes. A divorced guy who I've been talking to.

And then this other guy on the app who's divorced and has two little boys. And I got to say, I'm like into divorce guys. I don't hate it. So at my age, in my mid-30s, like, I'm dating guys that are like 38,

39, 40. I would prefer to meet a guy. guy who's been divorced by this age than a man who's 40 years old and is never committed to anything. And like, I'm attracted to it. It's not, it's not like my favorite thing in the world. I'm a hunt and divorce guys. But like, I don't know. I think a lot of people had this notion of like, oh my God, I'm 35. I have to start all over again. Like, you hear that a lot. And it's like, this is the best time to be dating because all the people that married the wrong woman are being released into the world again. Yes. And you get to have them. I know. And I just, I love that

you brought this up because this was something that I felt we were. remiss in bringing up with John Berger's episode because that was part of the book of Datanomics and how like women need to shift their thinking if they think that they are going to be mid-30s, late 30s, finding a never-be-married person like themselves. And that was, you know, his thing was kind of like, you know, Nick's them needing a degree, you know, maybe go younger, but also maybe go divorced. And like we didn't really tap into that. So I'm so, I'm glad that you're bringing awareness to this. Like, I've never had an issue with it. I've I've never been like I'm not going to date a divorce guy. Kids, I'm open to, maybe I wasn't

five years ago, but 100%. Like my best friend, Corey, she married a divorced guy. And I have other friends that have married divorce guys and divorced guys with kids. And also for me, going to school in the South, I had so many friends from college who did get married in their early and mid-20s. You know, you got married in your early and mid-20s. You could have literally been married for 10 years and get a divorce and you just, you married young, maybe it was the wrong person or maybe you just grew apart or you had an amicable split or whatever. And you're like back out there. I love it. I love it. I don't mind somebody with kids and we do want to do a whole episode about this, but I do like the idea that like this is an adult that's responsible for something and like has

something more important and bigger than them to take care of in the world. I don't mind it. And divorce like, it's so much better than me to me than like somebody that has an ex-girlfriend because like you had to like really want to leave that person. You had to like pay money. and go to court to leave that person. I didn't get the government involved. I know. I am less threatened by an ex-wife than I am by an ex-girlfriend because it's like you really, you had to pay to get away from that person.

Oh my God. Real money. Like, I'm into it. And I know that it's like a double standard because like I'm in my mid-30s and I've never been married. So you could say the same thing for me. You can't because of numbers.

It's just. It's just not the same to me. And I think you meet these like 40-year-old guys that have like never committed to anything. And like that's their lifestyle now. That's just who they are. And they're, I guess different people are,

look, it's a one size fits one. You can't qualify. We're not ever going to qualify all of this, all of that, all of these type of people. But generally, yeah, I mean, that's, again, this is all the John Burger stuff. This is in Datanomics. This is in his second book. Like, I don't mind a guy that's even like a little bit shy.

That's like, I was with my ex for 10 years. I missed dating apps. Like, I missed dick pics and sexting and dating apps. I don't know how to do any of this stuff. And that is what you hear guys echoed that have been with somebody for the last like 10 years or like my brother who's married. Like, my brother jokes me. Like, if I was ever single, like, I don't know what. I wouldn't know what to do.

I don't mind being with somebody that's like a little more humble and hasn't like played the game for the last 10 years. Like we should all be hunting for divorced dudes. However, you know my one thing. And this is again not, this is not, has to be an all encompassing rule. I think that it's good to not be the first person post-divor. And this is coming from me seeing this happens so many different times with friends. And I think the first person is typically a rebound, typically a buffer.

And so be at least the second. I don't think that's a bad thing to say. I mean, I would say that to anybody after any breakup. Like, after any long-term serious breakup, I don't want to be the first person. And, like, that guy that I liked in the fall, like, I specifically said to him, like, you just got out of a four-year relationship.

I'm not trying to be here for this. Like, it's not good for you. It can work, but I just always want to do a warning because I've seen so many girlfriends get burned. And then, like, I've always, I've seen girlfriends, like, be that second person that, like, they stay with the divorcee. The divorce.

That's just my, you know, cautionary tale. But I have something funny to tell you. So this happened. This was the other night since I know, I had already known previously that you were kind of like on this divorce guy kick. So Jared Freed, our Lord and Savior. But you guys are talking about me? Yeah. We were talking about.

We DM sometimes. He posted a video of him and this guy on his podcast, J.Train, I think. And I thought the guy was cute. Okay. Like cute. He had a good voice. All right. So I just sent it to Jared.

And I go, what's this guy's story asking for a friend? And he was like, ha, ha. He's this guy. You know, he used to be an editor. at yada yada website. Now he's doing his own podcast. Good guy recently divorced, seen someone. And I was like, okay, but can this new girl even help him with his podcast? And Cheri goes, I'm sure she can't. And he said, I think he's in Austin. I was like, oh, fine, whatever. And then I was like, I love the special, whatever. And then he said, by the way, back to that guy, he would be good on your

podcast to talk about divorce. And he goes, then you can make your move. And I said, well, Raina is on a divorce guy kick right now. I said, Ray. So that's no one ever in history. So that is on a divorce guy kick. What are your interests, divorce guy? Because my take was like, oh, wow. So I kind of think he's hot and Raina,

like he won't be okay. He'll feel really harassed. So I go, this will be like Case Cannonball over again. I said, Raina's on divorce guy kick. So it might be too much right now. We'll let her simmer down then consider it. Much divorce take coming at me?

then he was like, ha ha, what happened? I said, oh, she's just into divorce guys at the moment. He goes, you say it's so casual. Because Jared's like, wait, why? I'm like, oh, that's just what she's into. That's her new. And he goes, oh, yeah, no kids, unicorn. Divorced, no kids is a 30s find.

So we have Jared's approval. And I said, amen, sister. And he said, I get that. And I said, the dream. And that was it. This is why I could only be friends of comedians. Because only, like, comedians, because only like, you were like,

Raina said a divorce guy kick. And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, totally. I get that. No kids. He didn't even blink. Well, yeah, and we're not like fetishizing divorce men. I am. But it's just like, we just talked about this. Like, divorce, no kids in your 30s is a find. Like, I love the Jared Co-sign that. I love me. I love a man that doesn't really know the dating world isn't used to hunting. And I can just like take him down. I love it. I have gone in the opposite direction. Whole proclamation about how you're going to change and date older and I was so proud of you. And this is like, this is what you're meant to do. Do that lasted one date. These are, this is my life. And I don't care if you're like, you're a flip-flopper.

It's my decision. And too, is my body my choice? What you learned new information? You went on one date and learned you. I went on a day with a 39-year-old. And I did it. I did it for you guys. And I have not changed.

Well, we said this last week. Originally, I'd put my hinge from, I used to be like 27 to 40, to 40, to 41, whatever. I brought it to 31. And then I just brought it down a little to 29. but then a person that I've been like sort of talking to is younger than that. And we didn't meet on a day nap, though. We met in the DMs.

On the internet. Yeah, we met in the DMs. And it's like not a thing. Maybe it might be. It's not now. But like I'll talk about it more another time. And like the strategy. Like the slide in.

The strategy for get a 21. year old. Oh my God. He's not 21. No, he's 22. I'm kidding. No, he's 23. Favorite number. No, he's not. He's 24. He's 25. I swear to God, this time he's 25. No, he's not. He's not. He's 26 and three-quarters. We're not going on this road. I'm not going to say it. He's somewhere between 18 and 40. Thank you for seeing me. Anyway, no, I just wanted to, I like keeping you guys updated. Like I really felt, and I'm still, still want a guy that's closer my age. I still do.

I really do. I wish this guy was 30 in his 30s. If I could choose. Right. If you could choose. Yeah. The heart wants what the heart wants. And the heart wants a 21-year-old.

Anyway, I'll, um, if anything comes a bit or if it totally just the communication stops, I will address in full because there's. like more of the story is funny. But I'm also really glad we covered this divorce topic because it sort of ties in with our guest today. Yes, it does. I'm so excited to have her. She's a friend of mine. I've been friends for this three years, Katja Libben. And we're going to talk to her about being a single mom and dating when you have children. And we're really excited to get into it with her. Okay. Okay. I am really excited for Ashley and I to welcome our guest this week. She is the founder and CEO of Hey Mama, which is a huge platform and network for working moms to

connect and share resources, advice, and experiences. I can't wait for you guys to hear all about it and hear her story. Please welcome to the show, Kachia Libben. Hey, guys. So happy to be here. Thanks for being here. All I hear is like, hey, mama, hey, mama. Yeah, we have like terrible SEO because of all of the songs that were different. That is so funny. I never thought of that. It's so good to be here. I've been such a fan right now. I remember when you were telling me that you were going to launch this podcast. And Raina and I met super randomly at a incredible Israeli restaurant in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And here you are. It's incredible. Yes. We met at brunch with Jeremy Jacobowitz, who was one of our first guests on the show. And you guys know him as a good

friend of mine. And Ashley, we were sitting next to Kacha and a friend of yours. And I don't remember why we struggled up a conversation, but we did. And we've just been friends ever since. And I've always loved what you were doing with Hey Mama. And you're a single mother. and you're just like killing it in the work world and killing it as a mother. And we are excited to tell your story. Oh, thanks so much. I've been listening as I told you this when we spoke. Like probably listen to the podcast every week or two just to feel connected to this experience of, you know, dating and relationships and a lot of the things that you're processing in your head.

And then you hear them on the podcast and you're like, oh yeah, other people are going through that. That makes me feel a whole lot better. I love that. Well, we want to hear your story. Raina knows it more than I do, but, you know, I don't know the whole story and our listeners don't. I'm familiar with the community you've built, but tell us everything. Yeah, so my story, I was born in Russia, actually. My family immigrated here when I was a little girl. I was three years old. They came over with $80 per person and a couple of suitcases and, you know, complete immigrant

story. Just, you know, really they sacrificed so much for my sister and I. We moved to the projects. They thought they were fabulous. They were literally so impressed. They thought the projects were really great. And, you know, the apartments and all the food options at the store, I mean, Communist Russia was no joke. And I'm constantly in all of what my parents went through and kind of their life experience and how different it is than mine. But my mom was a tough cookie. I mean, super, super strong, super opinionated, very progressive. And she always raised my daughter, my sister and I with a lot of confidence. and a lot of, like, this very big belief that we could do whatever we set our minds to, that we could shoot for the stars, nothing, no dream was too big. And I think that's what led us both to be entrepreneurs. And we grew up in New York, Brooklyn, Queens. I moved to Manhattan when I was 17, went to college in the city, bartended for four years in Hell's Kitchen. That was a lot of fun.

So I think all of my, one of my biggest strengths are, you know, the magic that I love to bring to the world. is just connecting with people and seeing what they're great at and what they're passionate about and then connecting them with other people. Bartending was the best experience I could have ever had because I saw thousands of people over the course of those years. And I think the service industry is just an incredible place to build empathy and communication and intelligence. And so when I finally graduated and I was done bartending, that was a fun time in my life. But I was really excited to get out into the workforce. I was really excited to like prove myself to finally be able to start my career. And I ended up starting at a tech company and, you know, very quickly climbed the ranks there

and became one of their top, you know, top employees. I brought in a ton of revenue to the business. And it really gave me a lot of financial freedom. It really gave me a lot of pride. I bought a house. Things were going great. You know, I just felt like on top of the world. And then I went to Paris and I came back and my boyfriend and I found out we were expecting, which was so exciting. We'd already been together for several years. We had bought a house together and I was 26 years old. And so I was, you know, here kind of with this surprise fact. And I decided that, you know, for us at the time, this was just going to be the most like special step. It wasn't planned, but it was incredibly welcome. And that's when I proceeded to have my journey of becoming a mom. And from there is when

I really realized how much moms really go through in this experience of growing a career and having a family. And so I could get into a lot more from there. But overall, I couldn't believe the lack of support that I had as a new mom in a tech company with all men in a space in my life when no one else had kids. You know, I didn't really have anyone to turn to. So a lot of building Hey Mama was this culmination of all these previous experiences in my life, like loving people and bartending, loving being social and connecting others, working at a tech company and, you know, building partnerships. And then I also worked at Social Media Week. And that was really where I started to see someone built a community around the shared topic and expertise. And I thought, wouldn't it be

amazing if we had a community for professional mothers who were growing careers, growing families, and who really wanted to connect to support each other and share power and, you know, really help another get further in life. And that was the birth of, hey, mama, six years ago. So I love that story. I do too. And I love that your mom instilled this in you from being a little girl to like work and have money and, you know, create a life that you can have options and choices, which we'll talk about a little bit today. And I want to talk about your journey into being a single mother. And also just like you said like it felt like you weren't supported at all,

like and you didn't have anybody around you. So I don't know, where do you want to start with all that? I just threw like 10 things at you. I'll start anywhere. I mean, I think that the lack of support maybe is probably something that a lot of moms can relate to. You know, you think you're going to have a kid. And then all of a sudden, you know, it's going to be really easy to make friends. it's going to be perfectly timed.

All your friends are going to have kids at the same time and you're going to meet up at the playgrounds and then work is going to be manageable. And it just not like that. I think for me, it felt really isolating because I wanted, I was so passionate and excited about being a mom. And I was like, where are all my people? I can't meet these moms at the playground.

I mean, they're not there. I'm actually at work all day. So how do you go ahead and meet these professional relationships? So that's kind of been exciting for us as seeing moms really connect with each other, like all over the country, all over the world, and just find these commonalities. Like, if you're a single mom, if you're, you know, a special needs mom, if you're a mom in tech or corporate, I think that community is so important for women overall and for moms. I think it's so important and I think you have got to, I'm not a mom, clearly, but find the moms

that are dealing with what you're dealing with. We get emails from women who have had mom guilt, like of having children and just even kids, like, children with special needs. And I'm just like, you've got to find your people, you know, and especially just even having friends that may have those issues of like, I'll talk to you all day, but I can't relate like someone could that, you know, so any community, I think that that's clearly a positive of what we've been able to see with social media and platforms like you've built. I love what you said also about, you know, being a working mom and feeling like you have a hard time connecting with other mothers. I'd love to talk about that a little more because that was

my mom's experience where my mom decided to go it alone essentially with two kids, a four-year-old and an infant. My mom worked full-time. It was not an option to not work. And she didn't really build those relationships with all the other moms that had husbands and people that were paying their bills. They could go to the Little League field and go to baseball practice after school and like spend time with each other. So that really, I think was tough for my mom. I think she resented it and I think it was hard for her. I don't think she resented me for it, but I think she wished she had an easier time. So I would love to talk a little more about it. Yeah. No, I think for a long time, ambition and motherhood, like, haven't sat at the same table. And I think that's what needs to shift.

I think that, you know, mothering really belongs, you know, in corporations, it belongs in the boardroom. It belongs in a lot of, you know, it's really synonymous with being a great leader. But interestingly enough, like the ambition that I think so much, you know, many women have. Sometimes when you're in certain groups, like you actually don't feel comfortable leaning into that. And so for me, when I would go to the play dates and I'd want to talk about deals and the moms there didn't, I felt like I wanted a place or a space where it felt okay to talk about my drive in my career. So there's probably a lot of ambitious moms that really don't want to be told that they have to give that up once they have a child. And I firmly believe that you don't have

to give that up. But you can't do it alone? So can we talk about what happened with your relationship? I mean, did you stay with your partner and yet the father of your child for a while and have his support? Or was it a split that happened soon after? How dare you ask me that? No, I know. I was like, am I? I totally have okay. I can call Ashley's like, I don't know. No, it's totally okay. Well, in terms of like just support, you know, because it's like we're talking about support and a lot of people, it's the support of the partner, you know. Yeah, totally. Yeah, my journey on dating has been, you know, bumpy as Raina and I've talked about several times. I was with my daughter's father for about six years and, you know, really have to credit him. He's a

phenomenal father. I think she like hit the dad lottery with her dad and I say that all the time. I'm very grateful. We have a great relationship. We co-parent really well. It's always been super positive. Lily's never really seen us fight or anything like that. So for that, I'm endlessly grateful. My whole family is. And I think we've done a really solid job. He's remarried.

He just had a baby girl on top of having a baby boy. So Lily has two siblings from her dad's side, which is great because she doesn't have any siblings from my side. So at least she's going to have a brother and sister long term. But yeah, it didn't work out. And it was tough because I was really, I was 27 when we separated and I'd called off our wedding. It was a month before the wedding date. And that was a really challenging time to really decide to do that,

to get the strength and the courage to leave. And then to start completely over with a two-year-old. And then I started the company a year later. And I quit my full-time job and went full-time on, Hey, Mama, I was like the sole provider, you know. So that was a crazy time for me. So how did you sort of like gather the strength to do that? that to go it alone because I think that, you know, you and I talked offline a little bit about

people that are really afraid to make those decisions because it is hard to work as a single parent. It is hard to date as a single parent. So like, how did you get the courage to like leave? Yeah, I, you know, I think I, I knew at that time that I wasn't, that our relationship wasn't one that was going to see us through to the ends. Like I knew that I felt that instinctively, you know, I felt it in my gut. And it was incredibly hard because, you know, we had created this, beautiful daughter together. And to kind of give all that up, I really had to feel certain for me that that I could do it. This was the right decision and that I knew it was going to suck.

But long term, it was going to be the best thing for me and for my daughter. I ended up having that confidence because I was financially independent. I told you guys I was in sales and partnerships. And I worked my butt off before I had Lilly and continue to. But I really was able to like save. and have a security blanket for me that gave me the confidence to start my own company. There was a period of six months where I didn't make a dime, you know, and I never would have been able to do that if I, you know,

if I didn't really have that kind of early on traction in my career. And I tell a lot of women this, like never try. If you, you know, if you have to stop working, we have millions of women that have left the workforce this year. We're obviously in the middle of a pandemic. People are leaving because they're taking care of their kids. but the moment you can potentially find a way to dip your toes back in, we need to help our woman get back in it because that gives them, you know,

pride and ownership and also flexibility and their potential future. Options, girl, you need options. Yeah. I mean, it's it's heartbreaking. Like you see the stats, you see the numbers, you hear the stories from your friends and from, you know, articles you read and moms have struggled more than ever. I don't know how they're doing it. I don't know how they're homeschooling.

and working or even not. Like, it's just, it's all, I think about it every day. I'm like, how are they doing this? And I imagine it's the hardest for single mothers. Yeah, it's, it's been a crazy year for women. We've made so many steps back now in progress. Like, there's as many women working now as in like 1988. It makes me like feel sick.

Yeah, yeah, totally, Ashley. It's incredibly staggering the numbers. There's also the stat I was on a pan. earlier and it was said that 9.8 million women are burnt out from the past year. So I think there's a mental health crisis. There's a job crisis. I think in terms of what we try to do every day is we know there's, you know, a huge lack of resources. Moms have no universal child's care. There's no paid parental leave. You know, women are, you know, working more but earning less, black and Latino women, even more so. So I think what do we do? Like how do we come together and like

help solve some of these problems. You know, for us, it's a lot about mentorship, community building, given women tools and resources. We have a huge program coming up that's all about called motherhood on the resume. That's all about recognizing that skills that moms are gaining at home and how to actually use them at work. Like if you're, you know, managing your entire family's finances and all the things you're ordering and taking care of everything in the house, these are skill sets that make sense, you know, when you go ahead and apply for a job. So kind of getting women more tools. I'd hire a mom right out of the gate.

It's like they're having to manage a business at home. 100% hire a mother over a white man any day. Actually, you know, I would say we only want to work with women. And I'll take a woman that is multitasking any day. You know, but I, you know, I love that you're talking more about like what the pandemic has done specifically to working mothers. I mean, honestly, I'll be honest, I'm thankful every day that I'm, the only person that I had to worry about through this, and that was hard enough. And I can't imagine having to like juggle another person and what that would mean.

So like the strength of people that have done this is unbelievable. Totally. It's like a huge emotional weight, you know, because like you're processing the world and then you see your kids dealing with it all. And then you're working all the time at home plus parenting all the time at home. Everything's kind of at home. So I think the boundaries have gotten really crossed. and for many moms this year has been so relentless.

There have been silver lining, so I'm sure there are some women that may have felt that this year gave them a feeling of being more connected to their families and more grounded and maybe being able to, you know, leave and move somewhere and work remotely and live in new places that they've never lived before. But I think overall people are just tired. Moms especially are tired.

So if you know a mom, like get her a manicure, do something. Go and help a mom. Yeah. I mean, do you advocate a lot for building like a community around you with like friends, fellow moms and like leaning on each other? Is that totally every day. I mean, I cultivate the community at Hey Mama and what we're doing there and really trying to reach as many women as possible that want that kind of collective experience.

And then personally there's who's the circle around me that keeps this ship afloat so that, you know, the wheels don't fall off the bus. And my friends are a huge part of that. Like, I don't think I would make it through even a week if I didn't have some of those women to lean on where I could text them where I'm having a day or a moment or I'm stressed out or Lily's driving me crazy, whatever it may be. Um, you've got to have those people. And those people can be hard to find, especially in a pandemic. So hopefully if you don't have those people yet, like it's also a great time to go out and try to make friends. You can make amazing connections just even on Zoom because there's a lot of women out there that are looking exactly for that, like people that

could be there for them that they could be there for on this crazy journey. Absolutely. Okay. So we were talking about moms and their support systems. And I just want to say that I think that if you are a single person or even if you're not a single person, you're just someone who has time, some time on your hands and you live close enough to one of your friends with kids. I think it doesn't hurt to be like, hey, if I can help you in any way,

let me know. I don't know that people trust me with their children, but like just if I can give you an hour to go get a manicure, pedicure, can I bring you a meal? Like, I don't think this is anything like a hot take, but I think it is sometimes harder to ask. So there's certainly no

harm in reaching out to your mom friends and just being like, tell me what I can do for you and even offering up a few options of like, can I just lighten the load for an hour? Totally. And there's really some low-key things you could do, I think, for me and a lot of my friends, sometimes I just think they need to hear they're doing a great job. I'll text them handsomely. I'm like, you are doing the most. And you got this. And I don't even know what's going on, but it always applies. And they're like, oh my God, I needed to hear this. I think it's such a good call. Like we've been talking about, I mean, we talked about this more.

with grief, but like how it just a text message can mean so much, like a phone call can mean so much. Like, it can literally turn someone's day around, letting someone know whether it's something that they're dealing with that you're like, you're in my thoughts, or it's just like building them up. Like, you're doing an amazing job. Like, you got this. I think that it's something that I feel like I'm constantly learning how much it means and what we can do. And yeah, I'm going to do that after this. I'm going to just start setting those texts out. You're doing amazing, sweetie. I think being validated. Like, hey, I can't imagine what you're going through and like you're killing it and good for you.

Yeah. And I actually love voice notes. That's my new secret trick. Okay. Because I want to hear people's voices and I love when I can share more of myself. I find text message. It can be, you know, a little bland. I'm like obviously you could write a whole long line.

I love this. Typically, like I'm on the go. I'm walking. I have my coffee. And I just want to send someone a dose of positivity and be like, you know what? you've had a big week. Congrats. I saw that thing you did on the gram. You're doing awesome. What can I do to help? How can I serve? And actually on that point, I think that giving back every day in some way, big or small to your community can lead women to feel a lot more satisfied

and connected. So when you're feeling that down sort of like, oh, things suck. Things are hard. Actually, you should give because it triggers something in your brain. And it really, it really changes your whole mood around when you can help someone else in some smaller big way. Yeah. Even just like complimenting them, you know? I think it's so true.

A friend of ours sent Ashley a voice memo when her dog passed away and I thought it was so sweet. It was so nice. Yeah. And we just have so many different ways to connect your right. That's so much more than a text message. Like I had a friend that she had something she really needed to say and get off her chest,

not in like a conflict way, but she did like Instagram videos through Instagram. You know, so you're like seeing the face, but it's not like a full-blown face time because not everybody's ready for that all the time. But I want to talk about this dating stuff, of course, like the crux for a podcast, but I just have one, like one quick thing. I mean, I think all this is helpful and it's all great big picture stuff. But you personally, like what do you have something you do when you're like, oh my God,

I'm losing it. The burnout is real. What do you do when you feel that way? Yeah, I've had a lot of those days over the past year. And I know when I'm at my edge, you know, because. something small will happen and I'll break down into a puddle of tears. It wasn't about the thing that happened. It was just right.

All the other things that happened on top of that thing. You know, I work a lot. You know, having a startup's really demanding and intense. And I think it could be a huge up and down for, you know, anyone in business. But just the workload this year has been heavy. And for me, if I don't take care of myself, I see the effects pretty soon. like if I do it for like two or three days in a row where I'll work until the minute I go to sleep and then I'll use my phone in the morning.

By day three, like I don't think I'm the best version of myself. So the tips that I'm doing is kind of a combination of like technology limits. I'm always in front of screen all day. So I try to use the first 45 minutes of the day, no screen time. Wake up, I write in my journal, brush my teeth, I meditate. My daughter kind of has a sense of my routine. too. Like she hates meditation, but sometimes I'll get her to sit with me for a few minutes. And I just take time to process the morning without right away kind of the influx.

If you could do that at night too, do that for a week and it's pretty transformational in terms of your energy. And then lately I've been loving CBD. I'm just obsessed with CBD. I feel like I take it, you know, several times a day, just like this is my morning one. And then lunchtime and sometimes in the evening for sleep. But I think you need to like, whatever it takes for mom to feel chill is pretty critical. Yes, you told me that.

I remember you telling me this 45 minute rule. We were sitting at extra fancy. It was years ago. And you said I try to not start my morning every morning on my phone. And I have like a limit to when I'm like allowed to touch it. And I think I've thought about this all the time for years because I tried to do that too because of you.

I try to like wake up and not touch my phone immediately. I had tried to make myself a coffee, walk around the apartment. It really does help for sure. There's probably moms listening. They're like, I have three kids and that's not often. You know what I mean? Like I have a baby and a screaming baby, you know, but I mean. Have one kid.

Yes. Yeah, my advice is to have less kids. Yeah. You should just take condoms. Condoms is the advice, guys. First and roll guys. So I want to get into, we want to get into dating and a couple different things because we talked about offline, you know,

and this is not something actually and I could speak to that, you know, when you're dating, every decision you make affects to people. It doesn't just affect you. It affects you and your daughter. And even if we could like start as far back as like, you know, when you were thinking about leaving her father, like, did you have a moment where you were like,

would it affect her more positively if I stayed or left? Definitely. I was super wrought with that decision. And I felt, especially because the wedding was all planned. Like, I had the dress. This is like a story. I had the honeymoon. I had it all planned. And it was one month before. So that was a lot at the time. But I had to go with my gut. I had to go with what I knew to be true long term. And at that age, I felt like it was too soon for me to say, you know what, yeah, I should just do this for Lily, you know, for her whole life. Like at 27,

you have so many years ahead of you. You know, and I think we need to reframe. success. I don't think it has to mean that you have to be with your partner forever. I think, you know, being with a person, creating an amazing life together and then successfully co-parenting together is great. And we should we should get rid of the sob story from single motherhood overall because I think so much of the perception needs to be reframed because I think single motherhood is courageous and it's something that we need to celebrate and not pity. And there's over 14 million families with a female householder and no spouse in the United States. States. So we need to start kind of, I think, recognizing that families can be in so many different

shapes and forms. We have to kind of, you know, give these moms a lot of props because they're doing it all on their own. And it's, it's not easy. And every one of them had to make some sort of decision to get there. Yeah. And I really, I credit my mom. You know, my mom lived in a gigantic house. My mom and my dad had tons of money together. They had a community. They had tons of friends. I don't think, I think my mom, My mom has even said to me, it would have been easy to stay. Your father wasn't cheating on me, wasn't abusing me. I just wasn't happy. And I think it took a lot of courage to leave and to co-parent.

And I had a good life because I lived in a world with two parents that loved me in separate homes that didn't hate each other. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Like, you're done. Yeah. Exactly. Like, it's so special that she gets bad. And, you know, while I won't go into complete details on like why that relationship didn't work just out of, like, privacy for her dad.

I will say that I knew that I couldn't walk down the aisle feeling certain that that relationship was going to be one I felt positive about long term. Like when you think about getting married, you're thinking about doing it forever. Most people aren't getting married and being like, this is going to be a cool decade. We're going to be together. We're going to get a house. And then in 10 years, I'll move on to husband number two. I was really taking it seriously.

I was like, can I make this vow? And I knew at that time that wasn't the right such situation. And so I made the courage to leave. Plot thickens, I actually called off a second engagement earlier this year. So I know what you're thinking. There's a thread line here. But truly, like, you know, different times, different situation, but wasn't the right person. And there's probably some people listening that are in that weird phase where you think it's over and you think you're not with the right person, but you just like can't get yourself to do it.

And that phase really sucks. Can we talk about your dating life? I'm just curious. I think you're such a inspirational person. I just want to know more about you and your dating life. Oh, I do. So you're fucking, yeah. You've gotten two guys to propose to you at this point.

So that's the aspirational in itself. Yeah, I just want to know, like, did you start right away? Did you take a while? When do you bring your daughter up? Like, any of this stuff. I just have fascinated by all of it. Yeah, it's, you know, I've always had a really positive outlook on dating. I think that you have to think of it as fun.

You have to think of it as just meeting someone new, getting to know someone. You know, I'm fascinated by people. So I try to not go into a date with any expectations and just be like, I've already used all of my analytical skills from your dating profiles to ascertain whether I think you're a psycho or not. And whether I think we could potentially be compatible. And if I've gotten to that place where I think, you know, what, we could meet up and have a lovely time. Then from there, you just have to have a good attitude about it, you know,

because there's going to be nights where you waste your time. there's going to be dates or experiences where someone could get hurt or someone is really into you and you're not feeling it and it's going to feel like you don't have that return on your time like we do with things with our kids. We see the work we put in. We see that they're hopefully learning their lessons after you tell them not to do something for a thousand times and maybe the thousand and first time they actually don't do it. And you get the return on your work. But with dating, sometimes it can feel like that doesn't happen. So I stay positive. I've always gotten out there and never made it this sob story. Like, it should be fun. Dating should be 100%

fun. You should go to great places. You should meet interesting people. You should feel desired. You should feel sexy and wanted. And I think there's a lot of positive spins about dating. You also have to move to the suburbs today. Raina, we talked about this way about the suburbs and date all these divorced dads. And I'm like, say no more. Yeah, yeah. These guys are ready for commitment. They're serious. They're not messing around. people get right to it. They want to know how legit you are fairly quickly. So there's not a lot of this like, let's play a lot of games.

And we're going to like talk for three months and then maybe see how it goes. Like date two or three, someone's asking you, do you want more kids? You know, where do you see yourself living long term and what do you want? And I think maybe that's just by nature of like being in your 30s that's that people kind of don't have as much time to waste. Or maybe it's COVID. And a lot of dudes being like, wow, there's like no one sitting next to me. on this fireplace and like people, I think COVID has actually been really positive in some ways long term for dating because you never know when there's going to be another apocalypse and you might want to plan some shit with you.

So are you dating mostly men with children? I mean, you also, you were a single mom in your 20s as well. So were you coming across a lot of guys that were just single, no kids, never been married? I mean, do you, how did that look? And do you obviously do you prefer men with children like or divorce at least? dating in my 20s sucked. I felt like I was such a weird situation for a guy to process. You know, because I'd go out and I was 28. And, you know, then I would say I had a kid and then it was like all the music would stop. It didn't work then.

And I think in the city, I was living in the West Village at the time. It was really tough to feel like I was meeting really like quality guys that were, I think, interested in the same things I wanted long term. and I had already had a daughter, so I was thinking about a whole higher set of criteria. Because if you think your standards are high, they're a lot higher once you have a kid. Because you want to make sure that whoever you're dating is like awesome enough. So then I started thinking, should I just date dads? Because, you know, they get it.

They know what it's like. And I've dated both. I've had a boyfriend that was not a father. And then I've had, you know, a couple that have been. And I'd say that's a really nice common ground because you don't have to explain to someone where your priorities lie. You don't have to explain to someone that your kids come first. The ideal situation, though, is to really find someone that doesn't have a lot of, there are a lot of people out there with like really bad relationships with their exes. And I find

that could be really difficult and kind of toxic. So, you know, finding someone that has a good set up, you know, their good co-parents, everything's civil. That's a really big step up in like having a strong positive relationship is things kind of like working with your lifestyles, right? There's like two different kids and then, you know, after school activities and, you know, where those kids' moms live and all of that is complicated when multiple people have children. And when you were in New York, you were like in, well, I met you, we were living in Brooklyn for years, but you were like meeting guys mostly on apps and were you telling guys, I'm not sure if you're mostly being guys on apps, but were you telling them right away I have a daughter?

When does that come up? Yeah, I was living in the West Village, so I was also like going out and I would meet guys out. And those were the worst because then they totally weren't expecting me to have a daughter. And then I felt like, I said it. It was like, okay, I'm not there yet in my life. But I'm sure I met some guys that were fine with it too. I mean, I think a lot of guys also found it like, wow, you know, you did that.

Like, that's so impressive. Yeah. You know, that's an incredible thing. Then I started going on apps because I think as a mom, if you're going out less generally because you're home with your kids, if you're on an app, it allows you to really do it on your own time. I think it's a lot smarter way to potentially date.

Of course, if someone wants to introduce you, go and do that. That's fabulous. Like love a good old school, met at the coffee shop kind of thing. But for me, I just personally have had more success dating online. And do you bring up your daughter right away?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Front and center. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We talked in the show before about, like, you know, you'll go on a date with a guy and he won't bring up until, like, date two or three. They have, like, kids or that they have, like, an ex-wife. And I'm always like, how did that happen? Or, I don't know, six months in secret kid. Like, we had a friend, we have a friend that, like, she started dating the guy in June and she didn't find out about his son until the holidays. It was insane. Oh, my God. Or that he was a Trump supporter, but that's a whole different thing. We call him Trump dad, obviously.

But, yeah, and then I'd love to know about such a cliche question. but like your daughter meeting somebody that you're dating? Do you, I assume you take that seriously or not? You tell me. I just let her meet any guy I'm talking to you. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. First date.

He's been inside of me. He's meeting my daughter. Oh my gosh. It's time. My daughter's never going to listen to the show. That's going to be my goal. I told she's late like older. I have introduced my daughter to guys that I've been serious with.

And I have to be honest. I've had that. that happened two times and those relationships didn't work out and that has left an impact on her. And so I can't just sit here and say that, you know, she's been kind of a non-affected bystander in my relationship choices. And I think that's a really hard thing to come to terms with as a bomb when you realize that, you know, your kids have gotten hurt too because they get attached. And so that's exactly what happened. You know, they get attached to someone or attached to that person, kid, person's kids. Like with my ex, you know, our, our girls were incredibly close, you know, felt like sisters. Right. The kids. I wasn't even thinking about that.

That's like, yeah, that was, if you both had kids, yeah. So, I mean, if you want to talk a little bit about it, because when I was, I only processed this as a child because my mom had a very serious relationship with somebody when I was a kid who she split up with, she was engaged to, they had three kids, he had three kids. And I was really close to them. They were like my siblings. And I never really thought about it. But yeah, my mom had like a lot of conversations with me about like we're not going to be seeing them anymore. These like you can't really be friends with these kids anymore.

And like what does that look like? She didn't tell me I can't be friends with that. But, you know, what is that conversation? Also, have we said how old your daughter is? She's nine. Okay. She's nine. Yeah.

So what does that look like? What does that conversation look like? It was devastating. You know, it was really hard. I think she had terrible anxiety for days about after she found out. And then I pulled like a total mom move. Like I told her and I said, hey, this isn't going to work and, you know,

we're going to separate and we're going to get a dog. Oh my God. I support it. I'm not proud, but like that was the only thing. I was like, this is going to be a huge change. And she has not stop bringing up this dog. We are still have to get the dog, which is exciting. But I pulled the whole dog move because I knew it was going to be so

upsetting to her. And she was very upset about the relationship. relationship ending because of the change for her. You know, we had to move from the house. We had to change her school. This girl that she's gotten so attached to that she was calling her sister already. Oh my God. They were literally like sisters. That was really tough. The good news is, you know, my ex and I are on good terms. I actually reached out and suggested that they have a play date next weekend. So we are going to try a little bit to have them keep a relationship of some kind for them because we know that's best for them.

And if that's possible, it's a great way to go. But she, you know, she was very upset. Yeah, I can't imagine, but I can feel that pain. We had a listener, this was so many years ago at this point, like not so many, a few years ago, that she had written us an email about how she'd broken up with a man that had children and she just like had, she'd gotten so close to the children. And I was like, I'm out of my league with this one.

I don't know. I don't know because she was like, can I send them birth date? cards, you know, like I was helping parent them for years. I miss these kids every day. Like, I don't, can I, can I see them? Like, and I don't know that there's one hard and fast rule or answer for that. I think every situation is different. And that depends on what their mom wants. I don't know. It's such a tricky situation, but I could just feel her pain of like missing these kids. Yeah, I miss the kids a lot. I think that's a really good point. I did want to bring up one other point that maybe a lot of single moms might feel, which is that they actually sometimes

are happier when it's just them and their mom. And that has 100% been the case for my daughter. So even though me ending the relationships were hard outside of her dad, of course, you know, all kids want their parents to stay together. She's been the most thriving and happy when it's just the two of us. And so several days after she was very sad. But then after that, she was like, so excited. And she's gotten all of me and all of my attention. And so that magic that single moms have, I think, with their kids, like, you're so close and so connected is beautiful. And, you know, sometimes for a period of time or forever, you actually don't need anyone else in that dynamic. I would think so. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad you brought

that up. Do you feel like there's anything else that you just see overwhelmingly that single mothers are dealing with? I think single moms have a lot on their plate because you have all of these decisions that you have to make on your own. So ideally, they should have some support structures around them locally, you know, whether that's family or your friends or people that you could really count on other single moms. I think it's really tough if you're a single mom without any family or support. So I'm very grateful.

I have my family close by. My mom lives on the Upper West Side. My sister lives about 40 minutes away. So I think kind of raising these kids with others, you know, like my friends are super involved in my kids. live in my one kid's life. And that is an amazing, like, experience to see my daughter, when my best friends call, be like, mom, give me the phone. It's my time. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, get your friends involved. Make sure that they get to be a part of your kids' lives. That's a big

piece of advice because they, you know, that also helps your kids see how you value your friendships. And it helps them feel like they have other people that they could come to because, you know, mothering is not just for moms. I think we all can mother. I love the bond that you have. and Lily have and that, you know, it's, you seem really open with her. You know, I think you share an appropriate amount of information. I mean, I don't know. I'm not there every day. But, you know, it sounds like you really put a lot of thought and how do I manage this communication with her. I left this person. I realized this is going to affect her life. And I want to have those conversations. And, you know, to moms who are afraid to have those conversations,

I am the child of a person who had those conversations with me. And I appreciated being treated like an adult and I appreciated somebody being open and honest with me within reason. My mom did not ever tell me to hate these people, that they were liars, that they were terrible. You know, my mom did never poison me against the relationship that she broke off. And, you know, I'm thankful for it that she gave me enough information and not too much information. And it sounds like, you know, you're very conscious of doing that with Lily. And I love that. I try.

You know, it's a fine line of like what you tell them and what you don't. I'm definitely super honest with her. But I think the most important thing is that your kids see you standing in your power. It's about kids look at actions. They see that you have a bad relationship and you're staying in that. And that's the example they have. And they're really processing a lot of this anyway. So I think whether you're in a committed relationship and there are challenges

and your kids see that or you're a woman that's thinking of leaving and you're wondering how it's going to affect your child, there's a lot of like courage like we said that it takes and our daughters and sons will will see that as well and that might help be something they tap into when they have a hard decision down the line you know I don't know sometimes you got to stay sometimes you got to go but you've got to make sure that it's what's right for you and your kids and and stick by that decision and stick by you know knowing that you're always making those decisions with them in mind it sounds like you had a pretty idealic breakup which I feel like is not necessarily

the norm. And I mean, you can't speak to some really difficult dramatic custody battle, it sounds like, you know, which I think that a lot of women deal with, unfortunately. Did you struggle at all? Yeah, I feel like I'm definitely going to, you know, fail on this question because I have a very strange situation where we don't even actually have any paperwork between us. We've never gone to court. We don't have a custody document. We've just always kind of texted each other and been like, hey, this weekend work and then like every other weekend we'll do it. That's really weird. Most people, we've never needed to, right? Because we've just done every other weekends and we just texted each other the schedule. If you say that to people that have been through horrendous court battles,

and I know many people have millions of dollars in divorce. I've heard of these horror stories where like people get completely broke. You know, their exes don't, they want to end up taking custody. I have two Hey Mama members that their exes actually took the kids and then almost, you know, bankrupted the women who were trying to even get visitation access. So it can get really ugly and it would suck if that's the case. And so it's really tough. You know, whatever that situation is, if you decide that you want to leave and then that person is incredibly bitter and difficult and that process can't get managed, you know,

it does play obviously a huge role and that's why you know you have to definitely go and ask for help because you know you have to get a lawyer you have to figure it out for us we i think he was incredibly sad and i was incredibly sad but we're both pretty chill people and we both have a lot of respect for each other and we you know just knew that the number one priority was what was best for our daughter and what was best for our daughter was us having a great relationship putting her first coming together and dealing with issues that she goes through. So like even today we talk about everything. You know, which gymnastics class should she go in?

Should she go to summer camp or sleepaway camp? How are you disciplining at home? Like, we have to have those conversations and, you know, you just got to be careful who you have your kids with. That's the moral of the story. That's literally what I'm picking up on this. Like somehow, I mean, you know, obviously you chose somebody and you obviously have a great judge of character.

But like you guys weren't. there's no ego involved here. You had to, you're, there's one priority and that's your daughter. But yeah, like, I don't know. I don't know the actual, actual items to tell somebody, but it's literally the bottom line is really, be careful with who you have kids with. It's true.

Your story should be the story. It should be. It should be that, like, you take your ego out of it, so does your partner. And then you come together for the benefit of the child. But it's not what you see. and that boils down to who you are as a person. And people, they get hurt. They let their egos get in the way.

They get vindictive and revengeful. And it gets so ugly and the child suffers. So I don't know. I do have a tip here. I do have a tip here, especially as I'm dating again. And the tip is look at the red flags. You know, you've got to pay attention.

You can't let some of this stuff slide early on. And I have done that in the past because I tend to be really accepting. and kind of forgiving and kind of see the best in people. And those kind of things don't serve you well when you're dating sometimes. You have to kind of keep an eye on some behaviors and really think, you know, what's this person potentially going to be like, not just as a partner, but as you get into potentially having a child with them, you know, a lot of people would say, oh, yeah, they did do that really weird thing

on one of the dates where, you know, I thought that was like really rude, but then you just kind of like forgot about it because you were having a great time. it's those little things that matter early on that you have to register, like take notes when you're dating. After the date, write down. How did you feel? How did this person make you feel?

Did they listen to you while you were talking? Like, where they root to the waiters? You know, like, it sounds basic, but when you have a couple glasses of wine, you just, you forget that weird, awkward thing. And then next thing you know, you end up being with someone that's like, you would have noticed that they did some,

said something weird about their ex in a bad way. And you're like, ooh, I don't know. Is this person? was it them? Because no one's going to admit that they were the problem in the previous relationship. So you have to kind of pay attention to the relationship that they have with their former partners. If you meet someone and they're like, I have nothing bad to say about them. It didn't work. But, you know, we're on really positive terms, loved her for a long time. And I really wish her the best. And, you know, this was hard. But like, I'm happy for her.

Those are the kind of things that a healthy person moving on would do. If you meet someone and they're like, that bitch, you know, she did this, this and that. And they have a terrible relationship that's probably indicative of many things. And that might not always be the case, but I think sometimes those things could be really telling and you have to, you have to pay attention. Yeah. And I love that you guys brought this up. And I think that, you know, just, you know, thinking about who you have kids with, because my experience is that my parents did not fight in front of me and they co-parented. My dad was included in everything. But, you know, I know so many people that even 20 years later their parents still don't speak to each other. I'm seeing friends

my age starting to split up from their original partner and they've young children. And I'm seeing people like weaponize their children against the other parent. And I have a good friend who split up with his wife and he did not want to do so for quite some time because he said, I am afraid of what she's going to try to do with the kids. If I don't stay with her and they separated and she is delivering on that promise and she's making his life hell. And I'm not inside of that relationship. So it's not on me to make the judgment call. I don't have any idea what goes on behind closed doors. But the amount of times I've seen somebody

like weaponize their child against the other parent. You just, you really have to think about these things. I had a time and, you know, I'm lucky that my parents weren't like that. But I don't know that everybody's so lucky. Yeah, they're not so lucky. I think a lot of people have those ugly situations. And like people can change. You know, it's not all of these things are signs that you could see early on.

But I do think it's incredibly sad when those situations happen. And, you know, if you do find yourself where you've left and you're a single mom and you're thinking about the future, you have two choices. You know, you think you're going to meet someone wonderful or you think that the next person's going to screw you over and it's just going to end badly. And like that option B is that that's just not how you want to go about it. So you kind of have to give people a shot. You have to put your heart out there. You have to like make your best judgment calls to try to kind of learn from all your previous experiences, you know, be on the

look out, make sure that you're choosing a partner that you really trust and feel safe with. And that's, it's not easy to find. It's just, you know, I kind of, I guess I'm a hopeless romantic. I always feel like the love of my life is just somewhere out there for me. Well, they are. I feel that too. I just, I love that. Like, yeah, like, if you are considering letting someone impregnate you, like, do the checklist of everything. Are they a narcissist? Are they rude to white staff? Are they, have they ever made you feel unsafe? Like, all those things, like, yeah, people aren't perfect and they do change, but like if you are going to bring a child into the world with them, like they should be really stable, healthy, trustworthy. I'll leave it at that.

Do a background check. I mean, get, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm reverse image searching everything. I know everything about you. Because if you're already like, I mean, if you're already having petty fights or it's like imagine if that was about your child that you had together. Like I, it's those things have got to be brought into account. Right. And it's not your life. It's going to ruin. It's your child's life.

They're the only victim in this. You will move on with your life, you know? How long were you with your second ex-theonze? Sorry. Third time's a charm, you guys. I believe it. For two years. Okay.

For two years. And during COVID. you know, but I did a lot of things wrong on the, not wrong, but I'd say, we moved way too quickly. And that's another lesson I learned. I think everything in life is just like a lesson that you take and put into your memoir. But this lesson was just take your time. There's no rush. If you meet someone you like them, like meet them 20 more times and then make sure you like them. Like, make all your friends meet them and see what they really think. And, you know, see them in different situations and like take notes like I said. I mean, clearly I sound like, you know, I'm freaked out about

meeting someone next. That's not the right person. No, you sound like somebody that has a child and needs to be thoughtful about these things. Yeah. Take your time. Don't get caught up. I think, you know, men, I don't want to judge all men and say that this is all men. But I do think that for women, it's really important to set the pace. Don't let someone else set your pace. If you someone meets you and you really are ready for a relationship and all of a sudden they're just like all in 100% and you're not there yet. Like they're still going to stick around

if you want to set the pace. But you know when people are really excited early on and then there's alcohol and then if you drink and then there's, you know, hormones and sex and all these things. It kind of can get to you. And so I have heard of a lot of other people that have had those kind of like really fast,

hot and heavy kind of relationships where like right away they're all in. And I think those are a bit risky. So I love that you said that. We've talked about setting the pace on another episode with a male comedian friend who was, they're not married, they're just him and his girlfriend. But they have a great healthy relationship. But I see a lot, especially with men that are divorced and maybe they have a child,

like they're often ready to be back in that world and have a wife of other to their child, a partner quick. Like I've not all the time, but like you sometimes see it even more. you see men get remarried so much quicker than women. And so, you know, we could joke around and be like, because they can't do anything for themselves. They need a woman around. They have to have a mom to their child.

They can't do it alone. Like, we're joking, sort of. But I think you see, that's a reason why they want to, a lot of times you just see that happen that they want to move so quickly. So I saw that with my best friend who married a divorce man with a child. And I adore him. And he's family, but it happened quick. And she did not have a child.

She was ready to go. loved him, she wanted to get married, they're great. They have another child together, they have another one on the way. But if you want to take it slow, you set the pace. I think totally women should set the pace in relationships. I love that you said that, especially when you have a kid. And it is so easy to get wrapped up in this man who you are super into pitching this fast-moving fairy tale at you and just like take a beat, especially if you have a kid. Yeah, take a beat. I mean, there's like a lot of divorced, you've met. and they don't want to be alone.

Like, they actually, I don't think like it as much. I think women enjoy being alone more. I love being alone. My dad hates being alone. My dad acts like, it's so true. My dad acts like it's a fate worse than death. I'm like, I can hire you a maid and buy you a dog, and it would be the exact same thing as what you want a wife for.

Just relax. Some of my best memories in my journey have been through these times where I'm alone and I could like lean into my girlfriends and travel and me and work. So there's a time for everything. If you're in that zone, just like, enjoy it for what it is. Yeah. Well, to wrap up, I think maybe tell people a little bit about, like, Hey, Mama and just, like, bring people to the platform and where they can find your work.

Obviously, your Instagram, but also, like, let's drive people to Hey Mama and, like, tell them to connect with each other and how they can do that. Yeah, we would love that. I think if you're interested in Hey Mama and joining, you know, this amazing community of working mothers, you know, growing careers and families, and we have, you know, entrepreneurs and moms and corporate and creatives and just women across industries and cities, you could go to our website. It's heymama.com. And then if you want to apply to join, we have a special code we're running right now called Welcome 50. And we would love to have you a part of our tribe. It's, you know,

just a very, very special place for women. And I look forward to seeing some girls got to eat listeners on there. Yay! us too. What are the Instagram accounts for you and Hey Mama? Yeah, for Hey Mama. It's Hey Mama Co. And for me, it's Katia's life. And yeah, check us out. We also do a lot on Clubhouse. We do almost by weekly events there, book clubs and networking events and incredible speakers. We have about 15 events per month. We do for Hey Mama members. Last year we had Serena Williams keynote and I got to introduce her and I was Oh my God. I've never felt more nervous in my life.

So the caliber of speakers and women that you get access to it, Hey, Mama is just absolutely. Yeah, say no more. You said Serena, you don't need to even say anything. Ashley and I are signing up. I'm like, I have a kid. Do I need them a kid? Raina and I get fake IDs.

We're a mom. You guys can join. We don't actually require you to be a mom. You just have to, you know, be a woman that connects with our mission and wants to show up and be a part of it. So it's totally cool. We'd be thrilled to have you guys.

So funny. like what is appropriating mom culture? They're like, we're mothering. Lots of women. You guys are. You are just true leaders. You need that. I mean, just go look at my Instagram comments.

They're all calling me mom and I embrace it. I'm not having children. So the fact that you girls just can think of me as a mom figure, I am so flattered. I got to just tell you guys this. I promise to let you go out of this. I was in the elevator in my building today. There was like a little boy with his babysitter. And I was like, hi, cutie.

and he looks at his babyster and goes, hey, and he tags me, goes, is that your mom? To me? They thought you were, he thought you were the babysitter's mom? Three-year-old boy looked at his babysitter

and thought that I was the mom. Rita, no. My God. I wanted to die. I mean, whatever. She was like 19. I was like, how old do I look?

The story that happened to Jenny and I, so I was with my friend Jenny, Jenny Jones, we talked about all the time. We were in Victoria's Secret and we were paying for something. And this woman behind Jenny said, was commenting on Jenny's leggings. She was like, I love her leggings. And I heard it, but Jenny didn't. And I turned to Jenny. I was like, hey, she wanted to know where you got your leggings.

And the woman goes, oh, were you her mom? Like, and I was kind of like wrapped in like a shawl. Like, I looked very motherly. but we're the same age and I was like, no, I'm not her mom, I'm just her friend. And she was like, I'm like, I'm like, she was mortified. She was like the way that you said like, hey, Jenny, answer this woman.

Like, I said it so motherly like, hey, she wants to know where you got your pants. Like, Jenny, she called me mom still. It's, I mean, I'm like a year or two older than her, but we're peers. And the, that this woman I will never forget goes, oh, are you her mom? I was like, Jenny, you owe me like a lot alcohol today. Right. That's towards in a three-year-old thing. Because I had a face mask on and a coat.

You thought you were his baby. This was pre-COVID. Yeah, I was full face. They saw my whole face. Well, Katya, thank you so much. This was so wonderful. I'm so excited for our audience to connect with your community. And it was just so great talking to and meeting you.

Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. Thank you. Hopefully we'll see you soon. Bye. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat Podcast.com at Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram. Ash Hess, reina.

dot Greenberg on Instagram, Girls underscore Gotteeat on Twitter and YouTube.com slash Girls Gotta Eat. Okay, guys, have a great week. Bye.