Girls Gotta Eat - Do You Feel Like You've Lost Yourself? with Dr. Sara Kuburic

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

If you've ever asked yourself "Who am I?" and/or "How did I get here?", this episode is for you. We are honored to welcome existential psychotherapist and author Dr. Sara Kuburic to discuss the concept of self loss, self discovery, healing, and finding happiness. Sara explains self loss and shares her personal story of questioning her whole life and making changes to find happiness. We discuss the question of "What are we working toward?" especially at the expense of our own happiness, and talk about establishing a healthy connection to our bodies, mental decluttering, and creating space for our true selves to thrive. Before Sara joins us, we're celebrating our friendiversary, recapping our Texas trip (and the wildest stripper/bonding moment of all time), and doing a pop culture roundup (Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce, Love is Blind, and more). Enjoy! Follow Sara on Instagram @millennial.therapist, find more at her website, and check out her new book It's On Me. Follow us @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Shop Vibes Only. Thank you to our partners this week: Hello Fresh: Get 50% off plus free shipping at hellofresh.com/50gge and use code 50GGE. Skims: Get free shipping on orders over $75 at skims.com. Helix: Get 20% off all mattress orders + two free pillows at helixsleep.com/gge with code HELIXPARTNER. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't think it's something you find. I know we always talk about find yourself. It's like we go into a closet, get a sweater, put it on, and then dine it, right? Like, I don't think that that's the process. I think you create yourself. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Sometimes I have to remind myself I'm not backstage at a live show.

I'm like, take it down a notch. What? When I start being like, welcome back to another episode of Girls Got It Eat! I like belt it so hard at the live shows. I know. It's gotten a little Ariana Grande. point. Well, it's gotten a little, is the mic going to short out? I'm like one of these days. I forget I'm not like Beyonce when I'm back there. I really do belt it so hard. People are like,

relax, we're here. Well, yeah, we have shows this weekend that we are so excited about. Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, can't wait. And we will do a little bit of a recap about the Texas shows because they were unhinged next level. Really, two of my favorite. I can't stop thinking about them. I miss them. We after Austin, we were like, what could be better? And then Dallas. And then I got... Not that it was better, but they were neck and neck. Yeah.

You guys saw the photos. Well, Texas is different. Ashley and I got stripped on at the same time while the stripper put his face inside of my vagina, essentially. I never thought I would be holding Ashley's waist while somebody went down on me and my dad was in front of me. Yes, exactly. Texas, it is a different place.

It's different. Like, you know, I check in to Texas and I expect the... outlets to be different because it's that different to me. Like I need a converter. Literally. Like we checked in this old house and I was like I feel like I'm a different country. I need a converter. They're different. They're so nice to you also.

You're definitely not in New York. I mean there's a lot of problems with Texas. Let's not get it twisted. Literally tons. You want to get an abortion. Texas, not so great. You actually not the airport. Not the country you want to live in.

Okay. Well, let's just continue the conversation. If you're coming to Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, send us your crazy stories, your friend roast you're coming with all the tea. You can send that to stories at Girls Gotta Eat.com and we just absolutely cannot wait for these shows and all of the shows. Wait, we have something to announce. I'm so excited. We have decided to do Halloween shows. Yes, I'm so excited. So Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, you guys asked. We are delivering dress up. We'll do costume contests. We're going to dress up. We bought some of our costume

yesterday. We're still collaborating on a couple others. I have so much I've ordered. You do? Yeah, because it's like some of this stuff is cheap. You know, I've like got to order for multiple places. I have to have multiple options. I'm sure nothing is returns. Definitely not. No, you can't. Two I'm really set on. We're going to maybe collab on a third. I am so excited because we did Boston Halloween shows, two years, the holiday shows, if you'll remember, there was a holiday weekend. And I was a soup can. I feel like Lindsay Lowerham, and she's like, and this time I'm not going to be dead in some stupid little costume when Aaron Samuel sees me. I am not going to be in a soup can and Ashley's not going to be a taco this year. We're getting sexy. We're going to be.

way too sexy. I was like, is this okay? I was like ordering this thing. I was like, am I going to have bare ass cheeks on stage? Am I going to be naked like from my nipples down to my navel? Yeah, kind of. But our video guy's coming. Oh, my. This is why.

This is it. This is why you wanted to do it. You were like, how can I wear lingerie on stage in front of our video guy? And this is why we want to do costumes. It's like all washing over me. You are so transparent. I can't with you. This is my outfit.

Oh my God. This is not why. I gave him the option of a couple different shows. He picked that one because he knows me better. I don't believe that for a second. I'll show you the receipts. He lives on this side of the country. I'll show you the receipts.

I'll talk to him every day, all day. I'm not buying this. Oh, he didn't know. We just, yeah, I was just like, he wasn't sure if he could make those other ones. So I just wanted to. You're ridiculous. You're like, I think he'll just ride with us, between all the shows.

He could just travel. Well, he was with us all of May, and it really was nice. He's great to have around. It's great for me to have him. He called me the other day. So we... I'm sure you did. I'm sure you didn't call him first.

I will show you every receipt he calls me constantly. No, I do believe that. I've been around. Remember what he called you? We were on the airplane in the air. We were coming back. We were going from Chicago to Philly. And your phone was like sitting between us and we sat by each other for one of the only times ever.

And it just lights up his name and his picture. And we laughed so hard. She goes, hey. And I was like all emotional because I just finished the finale of Summer I turned pretty. I was just, remember you looked over and I was just mouthing, team Jeremiah. You don't know what that means. I get it now. He did listen to Mateo Lane's episode where we talked about the Mia Moritz.

thing because he texted me and me more the other day and I was like why is he calling me that that's why I call him and he goes I listened to your podcast the other day and he was like you're funny and I was like you've been a pretty close friend of mine for many years now what do you mean why are you saying that like you're surprised reina what you mean he's been to the shows that's what I said you've been live shows and he was like I've never really listened to a whole podcast episode oh my god the way he sounded so surprised you're really funny I'm like you've watched me make thousands of people laugh yeah you've taped it I know I know I know Now we know.

You have the tapes at home. Literally watch them at home. He probably does. Anyways, so dress up for those three shows. We give away vibes only, vibrators at the shows. We do the blow gels, all kinds of really fun stuff. And the shows are just amazing. So this is just a way to kick it up a notch.

Yeah, if you don't want to, don't feel pressured. Plenty of people didn't dress up. Oh, yeah. Like sparkleized. Halloween is not his vibe. He dressed up as my future boyfriend. Does he dress up for Halloween? He sent me a photo the other day that he was dressed up as a hot dog.

Stop it. At that show? No, no, not at that show. No, he wasn't dressed up at that show. Yeah, I'd say like 40, 50% of the audience dressed up. You certainly don't have to. Yeah, if you're like, I don't want to sit in a costume, then don't. But if you feel so compelled, we'll, again, have people up on stage and we'll do, you know, highlight your costumes and things like that.

So in those three cities, like we did it in Boston because it was three shows in one city. And Raina called it a holiday weekend. And that's how it all kind of started. But, I mean, we're not just going to pick one of the three. So we're just going to do all three. Yeah. I'm really excited. Oh, I can't wait.

Canadian Halloween. What is that even like? I don't know what Halloween is like in any of these cities. I'm excited. I thought about dressing up as a Starbucks cup in Seattle, but that seemed a little on the nose. Or, yeah, maybe I'll just be the space needle. What is that even going to be like?

You know this in one of my bets? I hooked up with this guy. His dick was just like the space needle. That's why it was shaped. I know. I remember it. Prominent head. You've had some dick experiences that were pretty profound.

Well, my whole 2022 was crazy dick. Crazy looking dicks. It was my whole hour. She couldn't stop talking about it. And I was like, I've seen a dick before. And you were like, no, you don't understand. You don't know about this dick. Yeah.

When I was touring last year, it was a large part of my set. And we got talking about dicks recently with Tom, Segura and Christina. We just did their podcast. If it's not out, it will be coming out. We did your mom's house, which was so huge. That's Raina's favorite comedian. And she's obsessed with talking about dicks. And she was like, I want to start a dick podcast.

I was like, I'm down. Two of you really were viving. These things enthrall me. Uh-huh. They're wild. We were talking about like good dick days and bad dick days. That was amazing. We had so much fun.

So look out for that. Also, I talked a lot about Dave Batista on that podcast in the hopes that Dave Batista is a fan of Tom's. Who isn't? You know? Love him so much. So that was really fun. And then just to close the loop, you get tickets at girlsgottaget.com.

The shows are next level. We do not do a live podcast. There are dancers, sometimes strippers. I don't know. It is just a wild-ass party. So bring your friends. If you've never listened to the podcast before, if you have friends that have never listened, they'll love it.

So it's just a really fun night out. I know I'm biased, but our shows, there's nothing like them. Like, our shows are my favorite show, and I'm the performer. Like, this should be getting old to us by now. I would rather work and do our show than go to Beyonce or anybody, not just Beyonce. You know, she's my top. Maybe her Coachella performance. But I'm saying, like, the amount of fun, it's just nonstop.

Raina Peter Panes on stage. Listen, I did. Okay. I am a proud pants pier. Yeah. It was so... I would just step away. I was worried.

Like, our shows are, if you're not there, you are truly missing out. Like, I'm going to read a couple emails we got recently because they just mean so much to me. I'm just going to read two short ones. But they're just unbelievable. I can't believe the stuff that goes down. Like, people leave those shows and they're in our DMs. Like, I can't believe what just happened.

Like, I haven't laughed that hard. I pissed myself too. You know, like, I'm crying tears. Like, this brought me back to life. I was in such a funk. And, you know, I brought my boyfriend. brought my girlfriends, brought my mom.

It's just like, they are so, so special. The stuff that we're doing now, we did not do it in the past. Like, this is like the newer, like,

I don't know, version four of the girls got to eat shows where there are so unbelievable and so special and involving so many more audience members and like, I'm just up there,

like, laughing to my stomach hurts and I'm like getting so emotional. And then I peeed myself. And then I reina peed. Well, you squirted. That's what I was saying. I was like,

you can say you squirted at a show because squirting is just pee. I literally walked off stage. I was like, I have to stay in here with Tessa for a little while. What I was to do? You walked up stage and you were just staying there like holding your vagina. I was like, oh my God. My outfits in Texas are my favorite.

I feel like I was born to dress for Texas. I loved your outfits. I just thought we were really great. Like you did Texas Barbie one night and your outfit the next night was just like the skirt that you had bought for Beyonce that you repurposed in Texas. I just loved it so much. And then we did like Silver with the Dallas Cowboys. Like it just all fit together.

My dad came. to the show in Dallas. Our whole thing was we were going to do this thing that I didn't want him to see and then we were going to introduce him to everybody on stage. And we didn't tell him until he got to the venue. I never thought to ask to my dad, like, are you going to be comfortable walking out on stage by yourself in front of thousands of people?

Like, are you going to be all right? It never crossed my mind to like go back there, hold his hand or something. He's got it. He walked out. He's a grown ass man. He's not that grown. He's a little ass man. He looks so grumpy walking out. He did. He looked.

I was like, is he mad at me? Like, I'm in my own show. I'm like, he should be so proud. He looked so mad at me. And it occurred to me, like, I should have just, like, prepped him maybe a little more. Like, not everybody wants to do that. Like, even your brother who's, like, much younger and much more of a presence, he gets nervous coming on stage.

So I forgot that my 76-year-old dad might feel a little uncomfortable. He just, like, kind of shuffle out. He looked at me. I was like, are you okay? Okay, I want to read this review. It is from a man, which you hate to see it, but is what. it is because I just love it so much. And if this was for a woman, I would love it more, but, you know, no shade. But it's like, I don't want to be like, let's read this review for a man,

but it's just so perfectly said. So anyway, I just want to, I just want to preface that. Yeah, and that's like a different type of person that's not typical to audience, too. So this guy writes, the subject line was trying to find a place to post my five-star review. And he really wrote it like a review. That's why I think it's also so cool and so unique. Okay, Girls Got to Eat has been a constant presence in my life for the past three years, thanks to my girlfriend's dedicated listenership. While I've caught a handful of episodes over the years, I had no idea what to expect when we attended the live show last night.

To put it simply, it was the podcast and equivalent of the Book of Mormon, a riotous, raunchy, sexy, and downright nasty blast of entertainment. I found myself laughing so hard that tears were threatening to escape at several points throughout the evening. There were so many standout moments like Raina's dad, who was an absolute good sport, the clog dancer grooving to trap music, the firefighter stripper who toured on the railing in the VIP section, talk about an unforgettable moment. Sorry to the Majestic Theater.

And because we did break it. And the two ex-nursing students sharing their wild cheating scandal story. The cheating. I want to talk about that too, how we literally can't keep track and we forget stuff because what goes down in two hours is like so jam-packed. Okay. I couldn't get enough of Big Daddy and the Hershey Kisses Dance Off either. If you know, you know.

I had my sight set on winning my girlfriend some pumpkin spice blowjell, but alas, I'm not much of a dancer, put me in a cookoff and I could have brought the house down. Maybe next time, right? Anyway, we had an absolute blast of the show. Girls got to eat delivered a night to remember that had us laughing, cheering, and dancing in our seats. It's a five-star podcast and live experience that I'm now fully on board with. I'm so touched by it. I know.

It's just so well said. And let's just highlight one more because this one is not about the live show, but I just, like, loved this sentiment. And I just really think it's so special. And I just want to thank you guys for sending these messages to us. It's from this girl named Casey. The subject line is sitting in the middle of the lake. Did you read this one? No.

City in the middle of the lake, subject line. I was like, I got to read this. Hi, I just had an overwhelming sensation that I had to send you an email. I'm typing this from my paddleboard in the middle of a lake in Canora, Ontario, Canada. It's an absolutely beautiful fall day here, plus 20, pretty fall leaves, all the things. I brought a thermos of coffee out here with me, and I'm obviously listening to your podcast. I was in all my feels this morning, going through a separation currently with two young kids. I was struggling this morning and questioning anything and everything in a sad funk.

I'm currently sitting in the middle of the lake laughing so hard at your podcast. I probably legit look and sound like a crazy person. Of course, there's zero wind today, so this laugh is traveling far and wide for everyone to hear. My day has turned around completely. Thank you for all that you do. Love you guys so much. I'm sorry. I'm also having a weird emotional day in general.

But like, that's just that someone's like sitting in the middle of the lake on a paddleboard and just like we're able to like turn their day around and their mood around is just such an honor. And again, it's just been an emotional day. for me too. Wait, Ashley, I can't believe I forgot. What? The anniversary of the end. Sorry, guys.

I'm just really going through. Okay. All right. Anyway, yes, today, I cannot believe this, Rana. This is an episode dropping on our friend ofversary. I don't even know if that's ever happened. No, it hasn't. Because it wouldn't have happened.

This is so special. It is. I'm so glad you remember. I was just hearing this email thinking, like, I keep waiting for, not that I keep waiting for the podcast to mean less to me. It's just I thought at some point it would. I thought the live shows would be less exciting to me. I thought that like getting emails like this,

I think that you sort of just like become a little numb to anything that you just get over and over again and what it is. It's never gotten less special and less important. And like I met you today, if you guys don't know, in Aruba on this trip. And we stayed up all night long talking about relationships, this one that you were just sort of like ending. And it was like really special. And we like had this really fun weekend.

And I was like, I think I've just like met this new friend. And oh, also like that week, I went to a wedding the weekend before and the weekend after I met you by myself. And I was just like, what is my life? And it's just like so special. I can't believe like six years later we're here. I know. In a studio in my house, like doing this. I know. Oh, my God. I can't even believe it. Anyway, happy anniversary to us. We met six years ago today. That this episode drops. 10-9. Okay. I launched a second business together. We really did it. Yeah, we really did it. All right. We secretly hate each other. I just wanted to validate all your conspiracies that Raina hates me. People don't think you hate me. It was like, I hate you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, totally. I'm more hateable.

Well, it's so funny. I'm fine, you guys. You don't have to, like, leave Brady alone. I'm doing fine. Yeah. All our rational and credible listeners know that, but that's a small little pocket. I want to believe it's not real. So it's so funny because we got off stage and we're in the green room in Dallas.

And I just looked at Rayna, and I was like, you are something else. I said, I was so glad I picked you. It meant a lot to me. You know, like, we picked each other. But like, we know the story. I wanted to do this thing. I asked Raina to do it with me.

You know, like I did in that. The concept was not my idea. We picked each other as friends. But in this podcast, I picked her and was like, I hope this works out. And it just, I never could have imagined, like, seeing you fly through the air on the shoulders of this stripper at the majestic theater.

Like, you were not okay. You were, your hair was falling out, your tits were falling out, your knees were scraped up. You'd already done a push-up contest that night. You'd already done your cardio dancing with that guy. Like, your body was sacrificed to Dallas. You were like, I don't know how you do it. And I was like, I disassociate. Like, that's literally how I don't know.

That stripper, like, if you guys were the Dallas show years ago, he was also the same stripper. Yeah, we just had him again. What this guy does to my body is insane. He was like huffing fumes just straight out of my butthole and my vagina hole. He was like really, I didn't pee myself that night. It's just like I blacked out too when he pulled me over and then you're on my back. You like, you let out this scream that I screamed. And like, these are the photos we posted on our Instagrams.

We're just screaming. We're like, I've never been more sad. We don't actually have something on video, the full thing on video of me just flying through the air. holding on to me. If you guys know the history, I had never been on a stage before. We did our first live show five years ago in September. And I had never been on a stage.

Like, who knew? Who knew I was going to be able to do this? Right. Because it wasn't going to be you. I wore a long skirt. I was like, don't touch me. I just think it's funny. I had this thought of like,

do people think like I'm not getting stripped on because I have a boyfriend now? And it's like, no, I've never done it. No, I'm just saying if you were new around here, I'm too long. I'm taller than most of these strippers. Like, I can't imagine my body falling down their back. I can't imagine them trying to pick me.

The Toronto stripper. If you were Toronto last year, we should get him back. That was insane. I had a hockey stick in my hand trying to fight him off. He came at me. He was my height. And then he was so little. And then he like picked me up.

And remember he kept begging Bella for the video? She's like, you don't want it. He was like, send me that video. Remember he goes, you know what I want. want. She was like, sir, I don't have this, but I assure you you don't want it out there. You should be asking us not to post the video. What are you going to do with this? You know what I want you to not do. That is so funny. Okay, Raina, I have something to discuss with you. Oh my God, what's happening? You have a correction you need to issue. What's happening? So last week,

because I can't say silicon. I didn't even catch this. It just kind of flew right past me and then I caught it in the edit. Okay. You had the audacity. to say that you have never worn jeans to a live show. We run the tape. You were like, I don't wear jeans to this, this. I never wore them to a live show. I was watching the edit. Like, all you used to do was business casual.

You would wear a skinny jean with a heel and a blazer. Like you were going to present at Salesforce for a good year. That was your look. You were exclusively jeans. Oh my God. I blacked in fashion era now, you guys. I follow so many, like, fashion. TikToks. I keep telling Ashley, that's a trend in

2023. That's trying, that's trying. I've learned how to dress. That's crazy. I know. I only had two things I wore to live shows. That one black jumpsuit and jeans with a black taintop and a black blazer and like little heels. It was crazy. It's crazy. Like, I mean, I wore stuff that I would never wear today too. You got on the, let's do a crazy, cool, fun

look for the live shows. Many, many moons before me. Yeah, I was always doing like jumpsuits. You know, that was like my number one. And you were like, I'm leaning into this. I'm just going to wear the same thing every night for three nights. I was trying to be like a regular comedian. You know? You loved jeans and a blazer. I loved a skinny jean and a blazer. That is so embarrassing. That's so funny. Well, you guys still laughed at the jokes, but you're probably laughing at me. You probably were laughing at me. I was the joke. It literally is just like work transition to night. Day to night. Day to night. Did you ever see that

meme? Fuck yeah. When I was a kid, I thought I would need to transition. Day to night. It's never come up. We really were sold a bill of goods. A bill of goods, a bag of goods that said like that every alpha needed a transition from day to night. That's never happened in my life. I live in New York City where you probably like the most you will ever need to transition from day to night because you're just not a car. You're going from the office to go out. It's still never came up. It's never come up. Yeah, I've really stepped up my outfit game at live shows. It's just been really fun to like find outfits. Totally. So we have an amazing episode with Sarah. I'm really excited

to get into it, but we've been watching so much television. I want to talk a little bit about pop culture. You and I have been like so much came out. So much came out.

Noting back and forth like crazy about what has been going on on television. It's really exciting. We really got a lot. Also, I'm so glad that the writer strike is ending

and they've come to an agreement. Obviously, we've watched that really closely have been in support of all the writers and everybody in entertainment that's been on strike being able to get what they want and feel compensated.

So we're so excited. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Has happened. I'm glad you said. said that. Okay, what first? Okay. So, well, I do just want to give a shout to two people. Former guests. Amy Chan, a former guest of us, launched her podcast called Breakup Boot Camp. And Matchmaker Maria, she's been on the show twice. Amy's been on the show three times, but Matchmaker Maria is launching a show also called Ask a Matchmaker. So I love it. I just want to

hype them and say congrats and check out their podcasts. Yes. And they are two of our all-time favorite guests. And I'm sure the podcasts are incredible. And if you're looking for more dating content, especially breakup content, we have some really great breakup episodes. Amy has been on a few of them. But that's all your breakup content right there. Yeah, but listen to ours first. Yeah, of course. No, once you've listened to all of our episodes twice,

maybe three times. Shopped our partners. Yeah. Okay, so I can start with, you have not watched it yet. It is phenomenal, the supermodels on Apple TV. I started it. I started the first episode.

I was loving it and I was so tired for whatever reason. We haven't really fully recovered from like being in Europe and then we came back and we both had these colds and then we had to go out and tour again. And so I just have been. and like excessively tired and just pushing through and doing our jobs and touring. But I was like falling asleep on the couch watching it at like 9 p.m. I'm like, this is so rare for me.

Like I'm not a fall asleep watching stuff type of person. Sober. Drunk, yeah. And I'm surprised because this is like your Super Bowl. I love Superbottles. I love Cindy Crawford. 90 supermodels. Yes, Cindy's my number one.

But all of them. Like I was so obsessed with them. So maybe I'll talk about a little bit more when I watch it. But I heard it's phenomenal. It's on Apple. And again, I read the full Vogue cover article. So I got the Vogue. that they were on the cover, Cindy, Christi, Naomi, and Linda.

And I mean, I knew about Linda's story with her cool sculpting gone wrong. And I keep tabs on them. I follow Cindy. And I'm just still obsessed with the 90s supermodels. They made me feel so much better about my height when I was like a young and secure middle schooler. They were such icons and they were the first supermodels. And they were like our whole childhood. So I can't wait to watch it and stay awake.

It's only four parts. I wish it was longer. They touch on all of their. occurs individually. They touch a little bit on drug addiction, but very, very briefly, I would have liked to hear a little bit more about it. They touch on just the plight of models in general and sexual assault and being preyed on by agents, managers, fashion designers. I don't think that's new news, but I think you can't talk about it enough. I think it's just really important to always bring you stories to light. I thought it was phenomenal. I wish it was twice as long.

But four episodes on Apple, really, really great. Speaking of things that were a little too long, but I also loved, I just finished the podcast Scamanda, which is about Amanda C. Riley. She faked a cancer diagnosis. She was prosecuted and put in prison. She scammed hundreds and hundreds of people out of donations, money, all kinds of things by faking her cancer diagnosis. So it's an amazing story. Insane story. I was like voice noting it to Ashley. Okay, next up, love is blind. Yeah. Season five. I know this will be a little dated by the time the episode comes out because the next couple episodes come out in a few days, the finale's. I know. It's going to be a little bit dated. We've been loving it. I like the season. All the crazy storylines. I like it more than the last season. I thought the last season was

like the most boring. They only have these two couples. I did get Sparkle-Eyes watching it. I don't know if he's ever watched a reality show. Like, he doesn't watch dating shows, really reality shows. That's just not what he's into. And we started the first few episodes when he was in town and he's been keeping up with it. And like, he watched it before I did.

What did I say? I said, this is the show that you watch as a man with your partner. I know. This is the boyfriend show. I know. And so now as we record this, we're going to Delaware this weekend. I think we're going to be able to finish it together. Yeah.

Oh my God. Is this your first show that you guys have finished together? It's going to be. Oh my God, that's so special. Is it one more drop or two? I think it's one more. Or is it two and then one? Are they going to do us dirty?

I knew it. I knew it. I knew they were going to do us like that. I had a feeling. Okay, you guys. Well, tune in next week for our thoughts on a little vacation anyway. So two is all we can handle. But that's really going to leave us on the cliffhanger.

You know a lot of sex you got to have. Yeah. But I like this season. There's more sort of messiness than I've ever seen. And there's less people that... I don't really rooting for any of these couples. I mean, I'm like rooting for love and whatever. I think that's great.

But like, there's nobody that's like Cameron and Lauren. You're like, protect them at all cost. Or like Alexis and Brennan. Like, I was like, I love these couples so much. I'm excited about their love. There's nobody that I'm like excited about their love. Like, I feel like Izzy, who's so sexy to me. Izzy and Stacey, they seem like a fun couple.

But I'm not like this is the greatest love I've ever seen. in my life. Yeah. Lydia's brutal. I think Lydia has a lot of work to do herself. I mean, you just see a really kind of broken, damaged person, but a lot of it reads really immature. She's pretty

tough to watch for a lot of reasons. It's been... I agree. Not great. I think they would have decentralized her a little more if she wasn't really only two couples. I know. I know. And I also felt like Alia left and you got to see an interview with Uché about like her leaving and how

he feels and this conversation and you never, ever see her have a conversation with Lydia. And I think that they would have held Lydia's feet to the fire a little more and made her even less likable. But they're like, well, I have two couples to work with. I'm also not team Uche. I want to get that clear. I can dare a man to talk to me like that.

I mean, I know he speaks in a very deliberate type of way in general. The way he speaks is also not for me. But like I couldn't take it for one conversation. I mean, so much of it comes across just like so judgmental and condescending. It's just maybe that's not what he's trying to put out there, but he's not really for me. I mean, I'm not so thrilled with anybody. I'm like,

once. Like every season, I've always like shed a tear like one of those first I love you or engagement moments and I'm just like so embarrassed for myself. But I still get there and I just never even, even last season, which I wasn't that thrilled about. I never got there this season. Uche, he only has one tone it seems.

And so it comes across as everything he's saying is very harsh and emotionless and he is going to stay very calm, still water while you escalate. It would be hard for me to be in a relationship with somebody like that because I'm like, you don't seem to care about this and I feel that you're instigating me. Yeah.

I feel like you're sort of like poking at me and like as I escalate and you sort of like don't seem like you're as involved in this as I am. Like I'm a crazy person and whether or not that's purposeful or not it would really bring out a crazy side of me. But it feels like he's dealing with some crazy behavior. Well, he picked those people. And I hate to be that person. It's just I was like, I thought I was like all good with Alia.

And then he was like, well, Alia, you did this thing? And then you blocked me. And then you unblocked me and you tagged me. You did this thing? I was like, did she? I know. on. People need to get some more stability in their lives before going on TV. You know what I would have loved to see. So basically, they have this conversation and he's like,

you started going through my follower list of females and watching all their Instagram stories for weeks. I wish she would have been like, yeah, so does everyone. Like she really was like, and she reverts to anger and just starts screaming. Yeah. But I wish she would be like, yeah, that was fun for me. I want to see what those people were like. And also, has she never heard of a Finsta? No one will ever catch me doing the crazy shit that we're. we all do. It's so easy. Just start a new account.

Also, Milton, I can't. How is Milton, six, seven, engineer, has a nice apartment. Cute face? Cute face, sweet guy, brilliant guy.

Why is he on the show? I mean, I get it. Like, you can find love in so many different ways. And I don't mean that to say that, like, you have to be some sort of, like, desperate 30-something.

And I say that as someone who's 40. Like, you know how I feel. But it's not about that. It's just like, it feels really young. To be wanting. to get married in the first place. You all know we feel this way.

So it's like, I don't understand why this guy's on the show. I mean, that was like what that one meme you sent me that was like, has Milton heard a hinge? Like, what is he doing on the show? I wonder if Hinge put that out. Like, has he been recruited? Like, it's so bizarre. This kid, you should be out there playing around living your life.

You're six, seven, sir. And everything. What are we doing here? I love his sweet little face. Like, he's like Jerry Curl. I love what he keeps calling Lady Old. It really makes me laugh. He's like, well, you don't have fashion.

works because you're old. I will give her credit. She takes it well. I don't like those jokes. Oh, you don't? I mean, they have like the same age difference as being sparkly. He can pick at me a little, but there's a point where I'm like, I get it. You have gray hair. I don't. You have a boundary. I know. I throw that in a space every time. And then the last thing that I think I wrote down for us is new season of the Kardashians came

out. I am just loving it. I love that Hulu like pulls the fourth wall down and they're just like come on in yeah we love it i just i can't believe i'm this person i really love the family i mean i just wasn't a person who watched it a lot on e and i think who was done a better job and i know i know e's like their roots and stuff so i want to give credit where credit is do but i just i love the show i am team kim always and you know i love chloe and i love kendall i love kentle i love kyle loving kendall on this season when she was like oh the cucumber thing, the cucumber thing. That's all you guys have on me. Kendall? I've always been team Kendall. Kendall drives a stick shift. She rides horses. She skis. She's like a bad bitch. And she's also been not really subscribed to a lot of like the family drama. Like I mean, Kendall's done some like totally out of touch stuff. But like how could she not? She grew up as one of the kids who was famous. Like she her and Kylie have such a different level of reality than the older sisters. So I think she's like a bad bitch. But now she's a bad bunny. That's the craziest thing. I've always been. I've always been. all about Kendall people try to talk to him like Kendall? Kendall with her little Porsche driving stick

driving around town. I would die if I saw her. Hear me out. We didn't get a lot of her towards the end of the Kardashians on E and even the beginning of the Hulu series. And I feel like what Hulu has done, like I said, is just allow you into it. And like they acknowledge that they're famous and people talk shit on them on the internet and that they're watching the edits from the show and they get in fights about it. And I think Kendall felt like this was so fake and manufactured for so long. She couldn't be a part of it. And I think now she gets to sit in a chair and be like, oh, Cucumbers, what you guys have on me. Fuck you. And she like flips out.

Like, I think now that she can do that, she's like, I'll be a part of this. So anyways, lots of good TV on. There's season two of the Murdoch murders on Netflix. It's okay. Okay. It's all right. I don't know that I needed any more information about this. You know, I've watched two docu series.

But that's your pop culture roundup. I hope you guys enjoy it. No, it's not. The number one thing in pop culture is Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. And we're going to talk about it. And Raina gets so triggered because she thought she was going to date Travis Kelsey. Raina, the way, you. really, I hated to break it to you.

And that's not anything about how I think about you as, I just was like, I don't think you're going to date him right. I just, I don't think it was going to happen for you. The last person you dated was just some Instagram model. I'm sure she's wonderful, but like, I'm just as cool as that girl. Also, I'm just sick of hearing about it. I don't care. It's my entire news feed.

It's everything in news, sports, entertainment. I was on Dumois and Jared Fried is on there, given a roundup of what's going on. can't listen to it. I don't care. I can't even be on Instagram. It's ruined football for me. It's ruined Instagram for me. I just, I don't care that much. I can't look at this many fun of them. Why, though, you're a Taylor Swift fan. You like football. Like, you're just triggered. I don't care. I don't care. I don't. It's a huge couple in pop culture. Like, the story, it's just like America's couple. It's like pop princess and NFL star. Like, she's on her tour. It's just the way he shot his shot with her. Like, everything about.

I'm obsessed with it. And I fucking hate the Chiefs. I hate this. And I'm not a huge, I mean, you know, I like Taylor's up, but I'm not a Swifty. I think she's going to ruin the team and everybody is going to blame her and they're going to break up and then I can get back to my usually scheduled content. Well, that would be great as an Eagles fan.

Yes. But that's people's theory. You know, she's an Eagles fan. So she's trying to do this and fuck him up and make the team implode. It'd be funny that she's on like the most famous worldwide tour in history. And she's like, this is my other mission. I will say. Like, but real time, no one was busier than Taylor Swift,

and she's like, I'm going to take down this NFL franchise while I'm at it. I have a few things to say. I definitely used to think Travis Kelsey was up there in terms of like the type of guy that I think is so hot, like maybe one of my hall passes, but he definitely looks like a state trooper now, and I just don't want it. I don't like his cop look. I'm here for everything he does. I love when the internet talks about him looking like a cop.

I hate the Swifties are entering their NFL era. I don't know what it is about it. I can't stomach it. It has nothing to do with the Swifties. It's just there's something about this like, why is it cringe to me? It's like all these things. Because they're appropriating a culture that other people have been a part of for a really long time. But it's just football.

I don't have loyalty to football. Like, I'm just, there's something about it that it's like the Swifties are entering their NFL era. I am cringe about it. And I'm not insulting anybody. That's just something about it makes me like hate it. I hate it. I hate every part of this. And then lastly, Corey had this really interesting.

take. She was like, I didn't used to love Travis Kelsey, but I watched the Kelsey documentary, and I feel like I like I like, I really support them being together. My brother was like, I think it's going to last. So like everybody in my circle is like really into this. But Corey was like, I don't think many people like pursue Taylor Swift. Like he really put it out there. He really was like, I have a crush on her. I'm going to make her this bracelet. I'm going to put it out in the world that I have a crush on her and shoot my shot with her. And I was like, that's such a great call. What guys are shooting their shot with the biggest pop star? are in the world. I wonder if like a lot of people just don't even go there. Of course not. I mean,

she's also with Joe Allen for quite some time. But like I just thought that was like such an interesting take. Like she's so larger than life. It's like who is actually going to dare to be like, yeah, I kind of want to date her. And who's somebody who actually could be on her level, not some like random person. Whatever. I'm happy for him or whatever. But I agree with you. and what I like about this relationship that I'm finding really endearing and cute is that she is the most famous person in the world. Like you can't name that many people that are more famous than she is right now currently. Totally.

And she's like, I'm just going to put this all out there. I am going to walk out of the locker room with this man. I'm going to be photographed. I'm going to bring all my friends. I'm going to be photographed having dinner with Brittany Mahomes in New York City the night before the game. I want to Brittany get that invite, please. You know she is sitting there like,

how did I get this lucky? She's at dinner with Sobie Turner, Blake Lively, and Taylor Swift. That's insane. That was a plant. But I think this is like so hysterical to watch because this is like watching just some low-level celebrity. And she's the most famous person in the world. But it's like if she's going to go, it's public. Like that's what's so crazy.

Well, she doesn't have to go. Most people wouldn't go. Most people wouldn't go. I see what you're saying. You would go and you're photograph from walking into security to every reaction you make in the box or you don't go. And you bring the most famous people in the world with you. She brought. Sophie Turner is arguably also one of the most famous people in the world right now.

She's going through the most famous divorces that exist. Blake lively and Ryan Reynolds are also one of the most famous couples that exist. See, now Ray is getting into it. She's like, I'm just going to bring all of them. Now Ray is getting fired up. Carpenter. And Anthony, randomly Anthony. She's like, not only am I going to go, but I'm going to bring all the most famous people I can find.

And I'm going to be all about his mom. Did you see that meme that was like, it was Travis's mom and Taylor Swift's mom. And it was like the way these two women would run a Joanne Fabrics like the Navy. They kind of look alike Like they didn't grow up that differently Like I don't think this is fake I don't know That's gonna last forever

Matt Hustle Time thinks this is forever This is America's couple Like I don't think it's fake I think this guy had a crush on Taylor Fucking Swift and shot his shot And she's like yeah I'll fucking go out with this football player What does she have to gain by this being fake? Nothing.

She is already sold out every single stadium on the planet But I don't know that I agree Now she's aligned with the NFL like arguably the biggest organization like she is taking over that too like this has elevated her I mean it's elevated Travis Kelsey more because he wasn't a household name for everybody

he was for me but not for everybody the chief's most watched football game of all times. Yeah but I'm just saying like the average person that's like super not into football didn't know the name Travis Kelsey everyone knows the name Taylor Swift like his popularity is grown because of her

but she's now in with the NFL like it's just it is another step in like her world domination you think they're going to bump usher and have her do the Super Bowl. She's not doing the fucking Super Bowl. She's like, I'm not doing the Super Bowl. Super Bowl needs me more than I need that.

What if the Chiefs are in the Super Bowl again? She's also like, I already played the stadium. Right. Has she done the Super Bowl halftime show? Taylor Swift is like, you think I'm going to do your little game? You're going to do your little game and I'm already, I already sold this out three times. Can you imagine? That's like asking us to come do a halftime at the Chicago theater.

No, I'm sorry. We already did this theater. We sold it out ourselves. It was my fans. I'm all set. I sold this out three times. You guys sold it out once. I sold this out four times and added a show.

That is so funny. I'm into it. It's wild. And I hope it ends soon. Best of luck to them. I do see them together. All right. Let's get into it with our guest.

Yes. All right, guys. We are really excited for our guest today. She is an existential psychotherapist, consultant, writer, and columnist for USA Today. She has been featured on Oprah Daily, Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan, Women's Health, and more. Her Instagram, millennial.com,

boasts over 1.6 million followers. Her new book, It's On Me, Accept Hard Truths, discover yourself, and Change Your Life is out now. Please welcome to the show, Sarah Kubrick. Yay, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. We've just been chatting with you. We had to start, because we had to interview after this.

We could have just sat here and talked to you forever. We started because I was making your sister feel uncomfortable. I told her she'd go masturbate in one of the rooms in the house. And then we're like, it's time to start the podcast. I don't. Well, you know what it's funny? I love that like therapists are influencers. You know what I mean?

Like when Rayna's like 1 million, 1.6 million. Like that's so cool that millions of people want to like follow therapy on Instagram. Like this is not a hot take. But isn't it like cool to you? It's like not just models and fashion people. It's like people want. therapy as part of their like social media algorithm. I think that's really cool.

Not something I ever thought would happen when I was in grad school. It's not like we had a social media course. If anything, they were like, don't do it, kids. Like, you know, you were caution against it. And I think the fact that in the last probably four years, therapists or influencers was life changing for me, but also just like mind blowing. Yeah. I know.

I think about it sometimes. And a lot of it comes up on my explore too. I like that type of content. we're also looking at guest interview and things like that. So I see a lot of it. I'm like, this is just pretty dope. It's like such a fun way to destigmatize something and offer psychoeducation and advocacy in like a fun

approachable way. And I think every therapist wants to do that. And we never knew how to do that until social media came around. I remember when I started, I was like, will anyone read an infographic? Like, well, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I was one of the first to do an infographic. And I was like, it's just pictures. All my therapy friends were doing like a picture with a caption.

And I was like, I'm too lazy. for this. I don't want to take the picture. They were doing memes. So yeah, anyways, shocking, shocking turn of events, but I love it. It just makes you go like, oh, other people are like me. Other people really need this. They need to find comfort. They need to find, like, community and feel normal. And Fiona Farron is who recommended you to us. She was on our show years ago. She's going to be on again in the fall. But I remember going to your Instagram and I was like, oh my God, she has so many followers. And it's really great, all the infographics. We love an infographic. Who does it love an infographic? I mean, at the start, I think people

didn't. Instagram was like a visual platform, right? You're right. You're right. What are you doing with words? Great call. I kind of forget the early days. Yeah. The borders and the filters. The borders and the filters. My God. That's so funny. Why am I reading? So you're an existential therapist. Can you explain what that term means versus like traditional therapy? Yeah. So I don't know if there is traditional therapy in terms of like every therapist is trained in a modality or a theory. I think some common ones are like CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. That's probably as traditional as it gets. And so all he means is that the way I view suffering and human nature is through an existential lens,

which is founded in existential philosophy. And so the topics we love are like death, meaninglessness, responsibility, choice, all the really sexy stuff. And it can kind of be boiled down to a lot of who am I and why am I here sort of framework. I'm laughing because I put that as a bullet point on your outline today. I mean, that's your book. Why am I here? Well, I think people throw around the term also if you say I'm having an existential crisis. Yeah.

Does that just basically mean you're like questioning your existence? I think so. I mean, I think we need to take into consideration that there's actually suffering in an existential crisis. You're not just sitting there being like, why am I doing this? And like, that's not an existential crisis. But if it's impacting you in a negative way, if you're, feel like you're spiraling, if it's dampening your mood for prolonged periods of time, then I think, you know, it's not a diagnosis. It's just the human experience that I think comes

with a healthy degree of suffering. Okay. I was wondering if it's one of those words that gets thrown around too loosely. I think it does. Existential crisis. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it's like, if you were having an existential crisis, you wouldn't be like doing this. Sometimes I'm like, you would be acting a little different probably. But then again, who are we to say if someone's having an existential crisis or not. It does get thrown around a lot. And I was reading in your book, when you get hit with this like, oh my God, how did I get here?

This is not the life I planned. This is not who I thought I would be. That's really, to me, like an existential crisis of like, oh my God, what am I doing here? Right. For sure. Can you maybe tell the story of why you wrote the book? Because I think you had a moment like that

and I encouraged you to write this book. Yeah, for sure. So when I was in my early 20s, I was in L.A. with my sister on a girl's trip. And I remember packing up to go home and now I didn't want to go home. I don't think I realized how much I didn't want to go home. And I don't know if you ever feel like you don't know how bad things are until you remove yourself from a situation. So it was kind of like for the first time for like a week I can breathe.

And I was like having fun and I felt a bit more like connected to myself. And then I was like, I have to go home and I'm not really loving this. And I was going home. I was married at the time. So I was going home to like my husband. I was going back to grad school. I was going back to my community. All of these things that I was doing.

And all the shoulds I was ticking off. Like, if you looked at my life objectively, you'd be like, wow, that's a 24-year-old that got our life together. Whoa. Or like super serious. Do you know what I mean? Like a 24, that was crazy.

So people were like really appear to kind of admire these shoulds that I was doing. Anyways, I got on a flight. And as I was putting on my seatbelt, I, all of a sudden, everything just kind of narrowed. And the plane became smaller and I started to sweat. And I experienced my first panic attack. But it was super severe.

I mean, every panic attack is severe. But I got off the flight and I was at the gate and the paramedics game and I lost use of my arms and my hands. Like they were completely kind of paralyzed and they were like this. And so they were like, are she having a stroke? Is she not? Then I started to lose ability to speak. And it was such a horrifying experience because it was the first time that I sort of realized something's wrong. Do you know?

Like the night before I was having a conversation with a friend, this is how I start the book. And he asked, are you happy? And I think it's the first time where I was like, I don't think anyone's asked me that. And I was like, no, I'm not happy. And then I had a meltdown in the bathroom. And then the next morning I had this panic attack on a plane. And I think it was that realization of. like, I'm living a life that is not my own. How did I get here? And who am I? That's also on

your Instagram. That piece of the book sends a chill down in my spine, the conversation with the friend. Yeah. You know, sometimes someone just asking you a question as simple as that. And you actually have to think about the answer. Yeah. And how often do we really ask each other like, are you happy? It's like, did you reach your goal? Did you do this thing? Did you date that person? And like, it's so output-oriented, the questions that we ask one another, but it's not like, are you happy? Are you fulfilled? Do you feel like you own yourself?

Like, these are the types of questions we don't ask. And then once in a while, when we do get asked those questions, I think it's, for me, it was earth-shattering. Isn't it tattooed on your body? Yeah, my dad says it to me. I have a tattoo that says, are you happy? It's in my dad's handwriting. And, um...

Well, just kidding. No. I was like, where's my opening to say it? Oh, I'm sorry. I don't want to steal your moment. I'm sitting here thinking like, why do I know this? Question so deeply because I see it every day on Rana's body. My dad's all, he's very invested in my nationalities business and who are advertisers,

how the live show is going. He has a lot of business questions, but he asks me all the time, are you happy? And that's a different question, right? And no one in my life has ever asked me that besides him. I don't stop all the time to think about it, but it is really nice when you pause and think about it. And the answer is yes. and it's probably really frightening when you pause and think about it

and you're just like, oh my God, I've just been going with my head down for so long I didn't even realize I'm not. Yeah, for sure. I think because of my childhood experiences, which I also kind of allude to in the book of surviving two wars by the age of nine and then immigrating to Canada, the focus was so much on self-preservation, the like self-awareness and self-expression

and all these things were just not in the cards. That's what he felt like as a child. And then as I was growing up, I never realized like, hey, you're no longer under threat. You're allowed to now expand and take up space and figure these things out. You're allowed to think about your happiness rather than survival. And that didn't click for me until after the panic attack where I was like, oh, actually, the only threat right now is myself.

It's a really good point that it is a luxury to be able to even say to yourself, like, am I happy? Because so many people really need to meet their basic needs and can't do that. Yeah. If you're in survival mode, your whole childhood, how would you know that there's an way to be. Yeah, or that there's something more important than surviving, right? Which there isn't, but that there's like the next level. Another level. And I think that's, you know, something, as you said, to keep in mind is like some people are surviving and we need to have

compassion for that and asking them, are you happy, might not resonate at all with them in that moment. Right. At the same time, I do think at some point we need to look at our existence and go, am I doing everything I can to live a fulfilling life? I don't even know if happy life is always possible and happiness is, you know, an emotion that comes and goes, but a fulfilling, meaningful life, I think is where the key is. And then just to back up, if people are like, what? Wars, you grew up in Serbia? Yeah, sorry, I grew up in Syria.

No, we didn't ask you. I was born in Bosnia and then we moved to Serbia and then we moved to Canada. So, yes, clarification. Okay, got it. So then what? The panic attack, paramedics, the whole thing. And then what's like the next day or what happens after this? Then we were like, we're going to wait for another flight.

and we were like waiting in a lounge for eight hours. Another flight came and left because I was like, I'm not ready. I kept having panic attacks. And so then my poor sister had to drive home. Well, we drove to L.A. to a friend who was a doctor here to make sure like I was okay. And so that was a really traumatizing day. Actually, she's in L.A. with me right now. And we got on the highway and I think it's her first time since that trip.

And she's like, I'm like traumatized. She's being on the highway because she remembers me like breaking out, her driving in the middle. of the night from Vegas to L.A. trying to like make sure that I was okay. She's like nodding from across the room. She's like, it's all coming back. Yeah. So then what happened is I went to therapy. And I was like, how do I get my shit together? Because I was so good at having my shit together. Like that was my thing. Yeah. Overachieving, having her shit together, not a problematic child. That's how I kind of coped with life. And she essentially said, well, first of all, you have trauma in your life. And I was like, do I? Like zero. Because everyone around me, experience the same thing. So I didn't understand it to be traumatic. I was like, that's just

the way you live your life. And then she's like, and then, you know, you might have to make some changes. And I was like, but don't you see my CV? Like, don't you understand? I'm doing all the right things. And I think a lot of that meant like, you know, I got a divorce. I took a sabbatical from my grad school. I like traveled. I tried to change the environment. So I had space to actually exist and explore these questions. And I was fortunate and privileged enough to be able to do It was super hard in my attacks, you know, last about two years. But it went away once I completely unraveled and deconstructed my life. I'm curious and share as much as you want or nothing at all.

The marriage. I mean, was it just the wrong person or because we know we're updating a relationship podcast? So I'm like, I don't want to gloss over that. And like, how much of a role do you think that even played or was it one of the more minimal factors? Yeah. I think it was a trigger to my relationship. of self-loss. It wasn't a relationship where I felt like I could be myself. And this is by no

mean saying I was the perfect partner because clearly if I had all of this going on, I probably wasn't showing up the way I should have. But it was not a good space for me. And I knew I knew immediately that that was going to prevent me from becoming myself. And you're also quite young when you got married. I mean, I was a child. How old were you when you guys got married? 22. So it's such a young age to even make a decision like that. I mean.

Who even are we in that age? I mean, you know, your brain doesn't stop developing until you're mid to late 20s. So in retrospect, but you know, even that, I would suggest that part of why I got married was the self-loss. And it was like the security of marriage

from, you know, feeling so much threat in my life. Again, I was seeking for constant sense of security. And constant sense of like, I belong here and my life is fine. My parents don't have to worry. I think this was just one thing on my checklist, but it wasn't made from a space of authenticity because I don't think I had that capacity at the time.

Right. Yeah. Well, can we talk about self-loss? You said it a couple times. So can you define it? And then we're going to unpack what it means. For sure. So self-loss in a very experiential way is literally going,

who am I? How did I get here? and I am doing all the shoulds, but I'm not being myself. I have a definition of self-losses, self-estrangement, lack of alliance, lack of congruency. It's like having a perceived notion of who you are and then realizing you're not that person. I think that's really scary. And there's another definition, which is my favorite, but it's kind of a tough one. Self-losses are failed responsibility to be yourself.

Okay, okay. I think, you know, we see that. I'm sure you see it more than I do. but, you know, and people that take careers where they think they should go into finance, but they really want to be a chef. Yes. Or they've become mothers and they didn't really adhere to the beliefs that they really wanted to be mothers. And there's so many ways I think we can wake up and be like, I don't know if I'm living this life that I want.

Absolutely. And I think you lose yourself in the compromises. Sure. You know, it's like you do so many oppositional things that in the end you wake up and you're like, I don't even have a concrete picture of who I am anymore because this part of me is doing. this thing, this other part of me is doing that thing. And, you know, we tend to lose ourselves a lot in relationships as well in terms of like molding and shape shifting and editing for someone to make sure that they still love us and that we can grab their attention. I think that's,

you know, a very common way that people kind of compromise. But it's not just about being like inauthentic. It's like a more chronic, more painful experience than just like, I said yes, when I wanted to say no. It's like, no, you did that so many times that you now don't. don't know if you want to say yes or no. Okay. Can you give us like an example maybe? How does it manifest? Yeah.

Yeah. Great way to put it. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about like how you get there and I think a lot of different examples of like it could be in your relationship or like your experience. Yeah. For sure.

So I don't think you need a big traumatic thing to happen for you to experience self loss. I think sometimes he almost seems passive or accidental. And I think, you know, it can be caused by so many things. Family structures, family traditions. family expectations can be some of them. You can watch your parents not know who they are. And so that's not a skill that you acquired and you think it's normal to live in an incongruent, inauthent,

inauthent way. You can be in relationships where you're constantly sacrificing yourself. And I think as women in particular, there's a lot of emphasize in like sacrifice yourself for your child and your partner. And it's like be giving and it's fine to give as long as you're not giving your actual self. And I think there's a really big,

difference between just compromising and self-compromise. I think you see this so much with moms. Like, I mean, it is all consuming to be a mom. I mean, everybody is a different story, but in terms of how much around the clock care, but you completely lose yourself. Women feel like that's all their partner, you know, views them as is just the mother and it's just like a constant. So there's definitely different ways. But I feel like, you know, in our age, too, like that's what we see a lot. people. Absolutely. I think it's overcommitting to any one role you have in your life. Sure. It's like, I am a dentist. I am a, you know, those I am statements are so powerful. And chances are you're so much more than that. And also it's like, I am anxious. I am depressed. And it's like you struggle

with anxiety. You struggle with depression. And sometimes just rewording that gives you more capacity to create other aspects of you instead of just limiting yourself to one label. And I think we like to put things neatly into boxes. That's like our favorite thing as humans, and I get it. There's so much comfort. But you are more than one thing. Even if that's a positive thing,

you're more than that one thing. And I think it's important for us not to lose ourselves in trying to just be a one-dimensional human being. Sure. Or lie to ourselves that we have. I wrote down toxic positivity because that really came up for me reading your book and saying to yourself,

well, I should be grateful. I should have gratitude for this. I should be happy. I have things that other people want. and I got to have those things. And it's nice to appreciate what you have, but you can also still feel like there's more for me out there. And I'm not,

I don't have to just be grateful and get over it, you know? Of course. I love the and statements. It's like you can be grateful and want something completely different even, not just more. You can be grateful and want something different. And I think we're so uncomfortable holding both and ends in general. It's like I feel relief and grief.

You know, I feel joy and nervousness. And it's just that capacity to expand and to be more objective, like being more in touch with our emotions and our body and really comprehend what we're trying to say to ourselves and what we're experiencing and not try to limit it to one experience or one message we're receiving just from our mind or our emotion or our body. Absolutely. And so I'm sure there's also like guilt and shame surrounding it too with this like, how did I get here? Like how did I not see the signs that I was losing myself along the way or how did I put myself in this position? and how many years I've lost or months or whatever it may be. So I'm sure there's a lot of that too, like compounding if you have this realization and not everybody necessarily has to have one meltdown or whatever.

It could be over time. Yeah, you get a multiple meltdown. It is not limited to one, folks. There's endless opportunity. Yeah, I think the emotions that come with it are hard, especially, you know, when you've invested too much in a relationship. Right. Sunk cost, too. Sunk cost balance. You know, and it's... Can't get out of the line. You've been in the line for so long.

Exactly. Exactly. But I think... Or grad school. I mean, anything. Anything. And I mean, grad school is the one thing that I kept in my life. Uh-huh. Yeah. So, yay, I'm here today. But I think it's important to just understand that the fact that you invested in something can't be the only reason you invest more. Right. That is your only reason for investing more. We're in trouble. Write that down. Clip it. Yeah. And you're going to, feel guilt because you made a mistake. And that's also a very normal experience. Like when we make a

mistake, we should feel guilt in terms of that is a pro-social emotion that we feel when we make a mistake. So it also embracing it as in like, it's okay. I'm just going to let a signal to me that I made a mistake. Yeah. And I think part of understanding your self-loss is understanding your participation. This is the hardest part. It's like, I don't think we can ever be just victims to self-loss. I think when we really peel the onion, we understand that we participate it through our decisions and our choices or lack of, because that's still a decision,

that's still a choice. And so I think that that's the most difficult part is like realizing it's on you. And now the shame or the guilt of it, shame is different. Shame is like, I'm wrong while the mistake is like, I made a mistake. So if you have shame, that's a much deeper

and more difficult emotion to climb out of. But, you know, I don't know what I should I say. Just try hard. No, I really, I understand what you're saying. I saw this Instagram yesterday. I was watching this guy. He's cooking outside.

And I loved the video. And he was talking. It was a voiceover while he was cooking. And he was saying that he works in finance. And that's his full-time job. And he had no creative outlet. And so like a year we started this Instagram where he cooks because he had like absolutely no creativity in his life.

And I really related that to this topic because, you know, he made the decisions to go into finance because society says make X amount of money when you're a man. It says have a certain type of job. Your father probably had to be a certain type of job. that type of job. Women probably want you to have that kind of job. But this guy is basically saying, like, I hate all this. I don't want this. I just want to be an Instagram cooking sandwiches. But there is like a level of like, all right, well, I went to college for this. I spent all this

money for this. I've invested all this time, climbing this ladder. Like, I can't abandon this job to go be an Instagram chef. But you also can because I always think about what are we living for? We're all going to die. Right. Like that's one reality, at least that I believe in, that we're all going to die. Right. Right. Really peppy stuff. But like if we're all going to die, why does the output matter more than the actual experience? Like what output are we waiting for? Like a house that's a mansion that you can live in for five years before you die? Congratulations.

But you hated the 40 years of your life going there. And so for me, it's not a checklist. It's an experience. And I think unless we change that attitude, climbing out of self loss can feel difficult because you're like, well, I should have these outputs and I'm willing to sacrifice myself for these outputs. But when you go, the entire purpose of your life is to live it. That's you.

So I love that message. And I have a guy friend that's just, he's married and has kids and he's just worked so hard his whole life and finance and penny pinched and saved and not taking the vacations and not done the things with his family. And he's starting to ease up now in his 40s. But it was just like the money and the resources and all the things were always always there. What were we waiting for? And I mean, I know, and he found a partner that deals with it, you know, but there was so many times where like, these are great years with the kids and all the

stuff. And it's just all you've done is work and did have to be this way. Like, it's always like, for what? You know, for 60? For retirement? Like for 100K more? Right. But like for this certain age and then you relax or, you know, and I think it's what his dad did. And that was his experience growing up. So you just kind of mimic that and you have it set in your head that's what you're supposed to do and you're a stubborn personality to begin with. And it's always just like, for what? For what? And I think so many of us have a scarcity mindset. Totally. But it's like we're so scared to lose things, but we're not scared to lose ourselves. And that's where I think kind of the, you know, the difference is like, okay, you'll gain all this shit. But the cost is absurd because I know

plenty of people who have reached all the goals and still depressed or, you know, you hear instances of where they commit suicide or they live unfulfilling lives. And I think the cost is so high and we don't even know it's there. It's like a hidden cost. Yeah. And where do we even set the goal post? You know, in the case of this person, you're talking about like, what is the right amount of money or success? Or like a girlfriend in mine was dating somebody for a long time who had all the money in the world, had a Hampton's house. He had property. and just he was really successful, but I was like, but you're not happy. This is always turmoil.

This is always a problem. At what point do you get to be happy when you get the ring, when you get a child, like when you get to live in this mansion with him? Like, when do we say, like, I get to be happy and stop sacrificing? What I find is that even with those big goals, a lot of people hit their first existential crisis once they meet it. Because they go, what now was this for? Right.

Like, first of all, what did I just waste all my time for, right? Like 10, 20, 15, 5 years, doesn't matter. I've literally poured into a trophy, into a paycheck, into acknowledgement, whatever it is that you were aiming for. So first of all, was that worth it? Most people will say no. And then they'll go, what the fuck do I do now? And it's scary. I think sometimes when we can't reach our goals, it's almost easier to live in that denial.

Totally. Because you keep pushing it's why we keep pushing the goalposts. Because we need it because once you reach it. What are we working towards? It's absolutely horrifying. Oh my gosh. Right. Something that I've had to learn is because brain and I are both really hard workers.

We're always like, what's next? What are we doing next? You know, we operate a little bit on a scarcity mindset. We've both been like really broke and, you know, trying to figure our life out. And so it's still in us a little bit, which I think is good. I think it can be motivating. It's not all encompassing. So I think it gives us like a little bit of an edge.

But I think there's times when you have to like enjoy things to like this happened to me so many years ago when I got into a relationship and now in this more recent relationship where I'm like, I can just like take a break from something. Like I'm kind of pulling back on stand up right now because I'm like, I'm just going to enjoy like being in love. I have to tell her all the time. It's really rare. Yeah, this moment in this car this one day. I was like, this thing happened. And she was like, you can just not work today. You own the company. I was like, what? She's like, I'm so overwhelmed. I was like, we can just take the day off. And I was like, are you serious? And it was like the best day I ever had. She like gave me

permission. But I remember this like so many years. I mean, this is so many years ago my like serious relationship and I was, you know, working for myself and I was blogging. I was trying to get ahead and do all these things, but I was kind of in a decent place. Like I really was able to relax. I was like, who gets to like fall in love? You know, like it's for me, it's rare. So it's just like take the time to enjoy this because what if I didn't? What if I was just like, I'm super stressed and I'm trying to balance like these two companies

and stand up in this relationship and da-da-da-da. And it's just like maybe something can like wait for a minute because this is like really special. And then I'll figure it out. And we have the luxury to do that. You know, we have money coming in. We are financially stable. I understand also not being in that place. You're like, I can't just like call it to work and go on a date, you know.

So I understand that too. But I think about that a lot with people like you're missing out. Like I can see it so clearly. Yeah. Well, I mean, you can take money out of it. Like my friend there was in this relationship. I was just like, I think you're the best person in the world. And don't you deserve to be happy?

You make everybody else happy around you. And you're like the most wonderful, kind, smart, hot person. And don't you deserve to feel. the way that you make other people feel? Like, at what point do you get to feel like that? Yeah. And I think it's okay to want it all. You just realize you can't have it all at once. Yeah. Like, you know, it's like space it out. And I think a horrifying is a confessional. So I put out my book. And this year I also got my doctorate. And literally, congrats. Thank you. The amount of. I'm going to be a doctor so bad. Pardon? I want to be a doctor so bad. I've been telling her for years. I want to take classes. Now we're going to go but the doctors. I just like it's like such a flex. But anyway. We're going to go get our sexual. It's amazing.

We're going to be a sex doctor. To be a doctor. I mean, great. I think you should. That's awesome. But for the real doctor in the room, you were? No, no, no. What, like it's hard?

Yeah, like it's hard. No, I think anyone can do it. Literally, you got this. Okay, no, but congrats. Thank you. Thank you very much. But one of the first texts I got from like seven people and I was like, oh, man, is this a blind spot? Everyone said, wow, doctrine in a book, what's next?

That's because they knew. and it wasn't like they were imposing it on me. They just knew like Sarah has never not had a what next. I hate that though. I hate that though. And I remember just sitting there and being like, oh, like it was like a mirror where I'm like,

what am I projecting out there? And this is really how I've been operating. That's a bit of an issue. And it was interesting because I made a conscious choice not to think about the what next to like November. Because I was like, I'm going to enjoy the book, the book tour. I'm going to just focus on the present

and not try to set up a bunch of projects. you know, right when I'm done. And so when I got those texts, I was like, oh, my God, I don't know what next. And I'm trying so hard not to ask that question for now. So it was kind of a weird moment where I was like, oh, I mean, I get it. Excuse me, Azul? As well, it was like, what next? What next?

Well, it's flattering because, you know, I have plenty of friends. I would never ask what next to because I'd be like, good for you. You call this one thing. I'm so proud of you that you did one thing. That's amazing. You know what? You're done. You need to revel in this for literally ever.

Like, you know, let's talk about it at Christmas. There are people that have written like one book and that's their whole personality for the rest of their lives and you're like, good for you. You did one thing. That's amazing. But like you are somebody that people are like, okay, well, she's going to keep it moving. Obviously.

I love that you said like, what did I do to deserve this question? But it's... I'm flattered. But also I'm like, yeah, what did I do? Why is this my reputation? My reputation? If I'm honest with myself, like, why is this how I've been operating for the last five years.

Right? So it was a bit of like a reflection moment. And then I had to be like, I don't have anything planned and their mind was blown. And I mean, these were close friends. So I was like, I'm trying to take it easy and they were proud. Right. Like you have to realize where that comes from. But this happened to me recently where a friend kind of like something she said to me was kind of along those lines and like maybe that and I was just was like, I'm actually chilling right now. It wasn't like a clapback. But it was just like, I'm actually going to run these two businesses for a little bit. But I was actually like, I'm just going to enjoy my relationship and just like kind of chilled.

She was like also awesome. People used to ask me all the time. She was trying to be helpful. Totally. And people used to ask me all the time why I don't do stand up comedy like Ashley and I'd be like, I'm good. Yeah. It took me a long time.

Two companies, I think you're fine. It took me a long time to like have that response and feel confident and be like, I run two businesses and I'm on tour. So I'm good. I don't need a fourth job. Ashley has a fourth job and that's great for her. Yeah. On the flip side, if we're talking to us about relationships,

it's when you get married is when you're having kids or when you are with somebody seriously, when you're getting married. then the next thing, you know? I just love it. Even when you're not married, they're like, what are you having kids? Yeah. It's just like, they're always like, well, you should be wanting the next thing. Like, you should. But it's so weird that we've made marriage more significant than a loving relationship of any kind.

Absolutely. Or that a ring is more important. You know, like a gold ring is not as fancy as a diamond. Like we have these, like, this is when you've made it. Like you have the ring, you have this marriage certificate you've had. It's like, I've had those things. Yeah. I am happier now. And so we just need to keep that in mind too of like, it's okay to not. And when people ask about the next step, I think oftentimes it comes from a good place where they're like, we want you to be happy. And this is what we think would make you happy and what society tells us makes you happy. So when are the kids coming? And, you know, but it is very frustrating. And I think we prevent each other. And I'll say I probably ask people questions that made them feel pressured too unknowingly. But I think we made each other be in this like goal-driven. in society by doing that.

Instead of being like, you're engaged, oh my God, enjoy it. Be engaged for like five years. Totally. Have all the sex. Have all the planning. Like just really, because what? You have 40 years of marriage.

What are you rushing? Like, why? Like, you don't enjoy each stage to the fullest and we're all trying to get to that angle. And then when people do, this is when they realize it wasn't what they thought it was. Absolutely. And I like this quote that's like when you feel a certain way

when someone's judging you or shame you or pressuring you. It's everything about them and nothing about you, you know, but I also think on the flip side, we say this all the time too. Sometimes it's just people making a conversation, you know, like, and sometimes we do it and we're like, why do I ask that dumb fucking question? You know, you're like, sometimes it's just small talk and we say that with like relatives at the holidays too. It's like comes from a good place. It's how they grew up. Like just, you know, feel free to put in their place. But like conversations like this, like help change the narrative. So we aren't out here doing it on the streets.

You definitely would have 20 years ago. I mean, it was like so commonplace for somebody to get married and then start asking about kids. And I just think that's like shifted nowadays too. And also just culturally. You know, sometimes I'm not fishing for a certain answer when I ask. Yeah, just trying to make conversation. I'm just genuinely interested.

I asked a good friend of ours the other day who's been married for some time if her and her husband were planning on having kids. I just wanted to like get her insights. For sure. And I certainly wasn't looking for a fuck yes or fuck no. I just was interested. Yeah. And I think, you know, with close friends, I think there's context.

Totally different. But I also think the way we ask questions are very output driven. Again, it's like you're not like, hey, I just met you. Like, what's your favorite cocktail? What's your favorite thing to do in New York in the fall? Hey, like, what song made you cry? Like, we're like, what's your job? What neighborhood do you live in?

What's your next project? And it's not designed for people to just feel relaxed. A lot of people accomplish these things so they can feel good during these conversations. Uh-huh. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, how many of us got into a relationship right before Thanksgiving? So you could go home of Thanksgiving and be like, I'm not single.

Exactly. That's all cuffing season started because family pressure. I mean, seriously. And so it's like, what if we just, as a society, you start to change questions and we're like, I want to get to know you. Some of my closest friends will almost never talk to me about work. It's great. I mean, I love my job.

I talk about it all the time. But it's like, that's not the first question they ask me. I'll see them like, you know, for dinner. And they'd be like, okay. like let's talk about feelings. Let's talk about your outfit. Let's talk some shit. Let's talk some shit.

My coworker did such and such. I'm like, great. Tell me more. I'm like, drink and martini. Yes. I was just like, great. Tell me, because it's about human engagement and we're just having fun and we're talking about the waiter

and they're cute or not, like, whatever. Like they want to try to get their phone number. And I love it because the conversation is not like, how did your post do today? How was your client? How's the book sales? Like, although those things are, great questions, and I would be sad if no one ever asked me those questions. I think just

pivoting the conversation to be more like intimate. It's just more fun, isn't it? I was talking to this guy yesterday, and he was like single and cute, and he said that he had to leave this thing where he got because he had to go to a cold plunge. And I was like, I'm just going to try something. And I was like, you a fan of Andrew Heberman? Do you know that is? So he's been our show, and if you guys don't know if that is, he's a neuroscientist, big into cold plunges, big, big, big into staring into the sun and cold plunges. Yeah. Culling into the sun, get no cold bath. And I was like, He's either going to look at me like I'm an idiot or he's going to be like, I love Andrew Huberman. And he was like, I love Andrew Huberman.

I'm obsessed with him. And we like talked all about it. And I was like, he's been on our show. And we had this like really fun conversation that wasn't, I never asked him what he did for a living until 20 minutes into this conversation. I didn't know anything about him or know anything about me. And it just was like a fun light thing. Well, we were out, me, Raina and my boyfriend the other night. And we talked about this.

And he doesn't like when everybody just wants to ask what you do for a living and talk about work and where he went to school and all these. types of things. And I was saying to him, like, sometimes people are really just trying to make conversation when they meet you for the first time. And he was like, I don't love it. And it feels like a dick measuring contest sometimes with guys. And that's not how I get to know somebody. So I love that about him. But it's weird. We, like, just kind of had this conversation because he's someone that's going to talk about other things that, yes, feel a little more intimate. He's, like, really big on wanting to get to, like, know you who you are at your core. And I feel like I just am talking shit about what's going on in the room. Like, I mean,

that's a number of way to bond with people. Like, if I'm asking what you do for work, are not hitting it all. So, okay, let's get back on track. But no, it's great. When you feel as though this happens, I mean, are there steps? Like, where do we go from here? Yeah, for sure. So you're asking me to condense a lot of my book and like a simple answer. But I think you need to see where the disconnect is first. So like we have our mind, we have our emotions, we have our body if we really want to simplify it. So I know sometimes I, in the past, we like have massive bruises and be like, I don't even know when I hit myself. It's like how unaware was I of like things I was doing, you know?

And it's like I was hungry. I was not hungry. I was not listening to Q. So it's like sometimes we were so disconnected from our body or someone be like, are you uncomfortable or mad? I'd be like, why? And my arms are like crossed. And it's like someone else had to point it out.

Instead of me being like, I crossed my arms, I'm clearly annoyed or upset or uncomfortable, you know? And so I think understanding like, is that your disconnect? is your disconnect the fact that you don't feel your emotions? You don't allow yourself to feel your emotions. You don't know what your emotions are trying to tell you or you don't know how to express your emotions. Like, you know, that's a really important part of it.

And then your mind, like, what is your inner dialogue? What are the habits? What are the expectations? What are the beliefs? And so I think, you know, I feel like I had to restructure and deconstruct and reconstruct all three areas of my life. But I think that's a great way to start of like, imagine you're going on a date with some of,

one, what do you do? You watch them like a hawk. You're like, what is their body language? Do they turn towards me away from me? Did they brush? Was that on purpose? Was that not on purpose? Like, imagine if you put that much effort into like how you behave. Do you know what I mean? Or it's like, they asked this question that was really insightful. Wow, that comment was so kind. Imagine if you monitor the shit you say to yourself. Same with emotions. It's like, wow, they were vulnerable with me. Now I feel more intimate with them. Again, it's like the same skill set of getting to know who you are. And the one question I love is like, what did you learn about yourself today? I think it's a really tangible question.

Most of us don't ask ourselves that. We just go through life. And it's like, okay, what did I learn about myself today? Or did I believe get reinforced? Did I have a breakthrough with my body? Was my body particularly, I don't know, sensitive or whatever? And so it's just really trying to connect and build intimacy. And you can't do that if you are scared of it.

You can't really do that. if you're unaware of what it's doing. And I think the whole movement of like love your body. It's like some people are scared of their body. I know I was when I had panic attacks. So telling me to love something I'm scared of felt really unhealthy. You know, it's like being in an abusive relationship and someone being like, beloved your husband. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That's kind of what that felt like. Yeah. My body betrayed me. She hurts me all the time. Like that's what I felt. And so I think we really need to be careful of like managing these situations and being like, how well do you know your body? Do you respect your body? Do you accept your body? There's so many steps before we get to the love. And, you know, self-embodyment, I think is just, it's not about self-love. I'm not writing about self-love. I hope one day you reach self-love, but what I hope is that you figure out who you are, because if you don't know who you are, you can't love yourself. I don't think it's something you find. I know we always talk about find yourself. It's like we go into a closet, get a sweater, put it on, and then dine it, right? Like,

I don't think that that's the process. I think you create yourself through every single decision, through the way that you utilize your freedom, to the way you take responsibility for your life. You're constantly evolving and changing every conversation changes your sense of self a little bit, every interaction, every whatever. And so that's a really cool concept

that if you constructed an inauthentic sense of self, you can now construct an authentic one. And it's an ongoing process that it's not done once, which is exhausting, but also liberating. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I really relate to the body stuff. We were talking about aging the other day with a guest and about like accepting when you're turned 40, your body has changed. And internally I was thinking like, well, I've hated my body since I was 12. So I've already been having these conversations with myself for 25 plus years. But yeah, when you've been telling yourself something your whole life, it's hard to stop feeling those things. And it does take work. It's really intentional to like stop telling yourself, I don't like this about myself. I don't feel proud of this when you've been conditioned to hate something your whole life. But also I think we need to understand there are bodies more than what society says it is. I think I have an example in the book. It's like telling a heart surgeon like, wow, you have great hair.

It's like you completely miss the point that he saves people's lives or she saves people's lives. Like it's understanding our body just as a tool or a vessel or a possession. And then that's how we treat it or like a property. So of course you're going to crap on a property. You're like, well, this is not the milkshake I really ordered. Like I would have liked it to be more sweet or not. And our attitude is so different than if you realize that you're not just something you have, your body's you, right?

And I think a lot of us, when we have these narratives, we don't realize like, your body is who you are. You wouldn't exist without your body. Your body has so much wisdom. Your body keeps you alive. Your body allows you to interact with the world. Your body allows you to express yourself. Without it, you would not exist.

And until we realize that, I think the way we speak to it, the way we treat it, because then you realize how big and powerful and significant it is, and then you being like, I don't like my knee fat. Do you know what I mean? Then it really puts it kind of in perspective. We all have things we don't love about our bodies and we need to work on positive self-talk. But I think when you realize like, this is so much bigger. It's like, who cares what it looks like almost? Because it is the core of life. Yeah. I love that framing it like that. And I also just want to go back to this whole not finding yourself, creating yourself. I think that's so important. And you're right. It's like, did I find it yet? Did I find myself yet? You know, and then you're like,

nailed it. And then you're beating yourself up even more. You're like, I don't think I found myself yet. So, and I think also it's so cliche about this like loving yourself before being in a relationship with somebody else. That's the thing I hate the most is like the you complete me, you found your better half, this person that made me whole. Like I hate all of that. And we're watching like, Love is Blind season five now. And there's this one woman in particular. And I'm like, this woman needs so much therapy before she even gets into a It's painful to watch where you're like, this is sad to see, you know? Like it's not so bad that you want to blame the show, but you're like, it's tough to watch where you're like, this person is so obsessed with finding someone else to make them feel worthy,

you know? So I think that's like a mistake that people make as well. So they're on this like constant search for love and someone to make them feel like their purpose themselves through the eyes of someone else. If you don't know yourself, chances of finding someone compatible are so sweet. That seems like a crapshoot. Yeah, what are you matching it to? Yeah.

You know, and it's like, if you don't know who you are, who's your partner dating? The version that you think they want. Yeah, exactly. You guys probably co-created a version where you're like trying to be something you're not. They're projecting. And then you're like, why didn't it work out? Well, that is a really hard thing to upkeep.

Yeah. For both individuals, they have to keep projecting. you have to keep pretending and it's not going to be a healthy space for you. And so I think, you know, the number one thing if you want a successful relationship is you really need to have a successful relationship with yourself. And I'm not saying be fully healed and before you find love because that doesn't exist. And it's okay to be working on yourself while in a relationship. That's great.

Right. But I think if you have such a little idea of who you are, if you feel like you're really in that lost phase in your life, another person might actually make it harder for you. Yeah, they can't be the game plan. That can't be your rescue, right? Right, they can't be your rescue. I think that this is like a really scary thing to think about for some people. Like questioning who I've become and you wrote this thing down, experiencing but not

feeling overpowered by your emotions. I think it's a scary road to go down to be like, am I happy? Can I tug on this thread and still deal with this? And all the decisions I've made to get here. And I think it can feel really overpowering. And I was dealing with something the other day and I said to Ashley, like, I've put this in a box and I feel very comfortable with it being in a box and I don't know that I'm ready to open the box

because I'm going to have a very serious reaction to it. And I think that when we do open the box, we can have really positive outcomes as long as we go through it. And even if it's painful and sad and hard, it's better to do it than to always wonder or to stamp out who I am and to say like, I'm happy, I should be grateful.

This is great. This is fine. This is enough. Yeah, that's so good. This is enough. I think we're also scared not just of our bodies but our emotions. because you're like, what if it overwhelms me?

What if I don't know how to handle it? And I think part of that is like, your emotions are not trying to fuck with you. Like, your emotions are not trying to be mean. They're just messengers. And, you know, we all need to practice self-soothing and self-expression. But I think it's okay to not be ready right away. I like that you're like, it's in a box.

I'm happy it's in the box. And when I'm ready, I'm going to open the box. I really respect that. It's like knowing your boundaries and knowing what you're capable of handling. Now, if it's permanently in a box, probably not helpful. And, you know, it's like what tools and skills do I need to develop before I can open the box? That's a great next question.

And then once you have them, you can open the box. But again, emotions are not, it's like you don't need to be overpowered by them. You don't need to be consumed by them. They can actually help you. And they're meant to help you. I think it's so important to share the stories like your story and anyone who kind of, for lack of a better word, like blew their life up for the better. Because I think, you know, we'll get emails sometimes of,

I'm engaged and my wedding's approaching and I don't know if this is the wrong person. And I'm just like, it's tough to tell someone what to do. I don't know all the details. This is an email from a stranger. You know, I can't speak on. I don't know the full story, but I want to be like, don't do it. You know, like, it sounds to me, just from what you've sent us, like, don't do this thing or, you know, don't take this job or if you're unhappy where you live, like, move.

I mean, these things are so scary and they really, people are like, I'm going to just blow my life up and it's like, well, what's the alternative? So I think it's really important to like see all of the positive stories that come out of people like making these huge changes that were so terrifying. Yeah. And if you would have married your ex-fiance. I mean, insane. And I mean, he did me the favor. He left me.

It wasn't my choice. But, you know, I think that we look at it as quote-called blowing your life up. But you're ending something in order to have something better in the future. And you're going to have some temporary pain that you experience for a long-term gain, which is really great. And those emails we get, I'm like, oh, you sat down. and emailed strangers to ask, should I stay or should I go? Right.

And I think that you already have your answer. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I feel for like people saying like, is this just normal being alive feelings? Everybody questions getting married or taking a job or moving or is this like, can I unring this bell?

Yeah. It's the voice in my head worth listening to. But then I also want to, you know, validate and be sensitive to like not knowing what's normal cold feet or anxiety about something. And if you're a person that's like hasn't had a ton of security and stability in your life in the first place and has more anxiety. It's like tough to know.

Like I'm a person that's pretty sure my instincts are correct. I know how I feel about certain things. But that's not everybody's experience. And so, you know, it's also easy to say like, you should know. And someone's like, I've never known, especially if it's someone that's younger, a lot of these emails we get are from someone that's younger that's like, I've been questioning everything my whole life. How am I supposed to know that this is any different?

For sure. Right. If you're any type of risk averse, right? Yeah. It's a bit of like trial and error too. Like that's what life is. I think we have this misconception that's like, you're going to know and then you're going to do it. It's going to be great.

Or it's like sometimes you're going to try and be like, nope. And what's important is that you tried and you recognized when he was a no or when it didn't work for you and then you walked away. But assuming you're not going to make mistakes is absurd. Like, of course. And you know, I'm not telling people like, look at my life. I blew it up and I'm so happy now. I'm not saying like blow up your life. But I think you need to understand what you're sacrificing for the life that you're building. Ask yourself if that's fine. if that's a worthy exchange. And then sometimes you can't blow things up.

Let's say you're a parent and you still need to feed your children. You know, like, let's say that you can't just be like, I'm just going to leave. I mean, people have done it. But like, let's say you don't feel like you have that much freedom or choice. Most people can't just leave their jobs and move somewhere. Yeah, totally.

It's like there's so many contexts in which you can't. And then it's like, okay, but what freedom can I exercise? What are the tweaks I can make? and how can I show myself more? How can I start possessing my life more? And I love the example of the finance guy who started TikTok videos. Like that's a great way of being like, okay, I can't maybe leave. You can ease in.

I can't leave. But how can I still live a life of self-expression? How can I change my attitude towards my job? So maybe he used to be like, I'm a finance bro. And now he's like, I'm a content creator. You know, it's like there are sometimes it's not about destroying absolutely everything. Sometimes it is about making adjustments at tweets. and seeing how it goes.

So don't be like, I need to leave my family. That is not what we're saying. That's a great point. It doesn't have to be like you just let go of everything. It's like I can add in something that would make me happy. If you're like my whole identity as being a mother, which I can't relate to, so I don't think it's just so easy. But like, I don't know, maybe there's an hour in your week that you can do something

and you can identify as I'm also somebody that goes to yoga. I'm also somebody that sits in the park and reads a book, you know? Yeah, totally. Does this lend itself to the mental degree? cluttering. I love that term and that's in your book and I was wanting to just talk about that a little bit. Yeah. So that's one of the three areas where I talk about the mind. And I think for me, that was a lot of deconstructing beliefs I had about myself and the way the world functioned. It was looking at my habits. It was looking at my wounds. I think if you think about creating

something, you need space to create it. So like if you don't have a table and the table's covered with crap and you have clay, it makes it much difficult to create something. That's a terrible example. But do you know what I mean? I like a visualization. I looked at the table. It was like, we're looking at the table. So what you need to do most often when people do is they cleared a table and then they

start creating something. And so it's like if you are creating a sense of self, you need space to actually do that. And that means decluttering your mind of the habits, of the beliefs, of the limiting whatever habits that you have in expectations. And so it's a little bit of paying attention to what your thought process is like and what sort of things are guiding, if not ruling your life. So that's kind of the chapter on decline. And I became a minimalist when I started doing this. So that's kind of another fun fact of like, I think for me started physically, I was like, I just can't have shit around me.

It's stressing me out. And it was during the same process that I feel like I became like a mental minimalist in terms of just keeping things that actually serve me. And letting go of everything else that doesn't. I love that. I think that's another thing with having kids. There's just shit everywhere. It's really. It's really. It's really. really been kind of hard on my brother because he likes things really tidy and organized. And, like, he really likes to have a lot of control and he doesn't work well with, like, chaos. And they have this kid. And he's like, I, the house is like, I don't know how to handle this. You know, I feel like it, like, seems into your brain. Like, I feel like we felt so happy when we moved here.

And we were like, we just have more space for our shit. You know, when you're in New York, everything is in front of you. Like, there's like packages you have to send back there in the kitchen. Everything is in this teeny tiny little space. I mean, New York now. So I'm like, I know. You can't avoid it. There's a mess. It's like in your, you just, can't avoid the clutter. This is like a weird example, but I'm just so big on like your home. And I feel like when I moved to L.A., I was like, there's just, it's not all in my face. So, yeah, maybe you just need to pick up your home.

I mean, yeah. Throw some stuff out. Throw some stuff out. Marie condo that shit. Exactly. It makes such a huge difference. And because I travel so much, for me, it's like everything I own like fits in a suitcase. And like, I love that.

And when there's more stuff, I'm like, why are you here? And when I buy something, I'm like, what is this replacing? Because chances are I'm not adding. And I like that because if you thought about in those terms of beliefs and whatever, it's like, what is this belief replacing? Is it a worthy enough belief to replace the one I already have? Is this serving me? And I think you become so much more intentional and picky, but in a really freeing, kind of liberating way.

Well, I love that. And the book is so full of just a wealth of tips and information. And I really encourage people to read it. So can you tell everybody where to find you, the book? your Instagram, everything. Awesome. So you can find my book anywhere where books are sold, including the airport, which was like a nice surprise.

Oh my God. I know. I was like... That book might hit different 30,000 feet. You know, because you get more emotional. I cry on every... I don't know if you guys want to read this on a plane. No, I'm coming.

Yeah, maybe you don't read it on the plane. I'm totally kidding. I'm like having a panic attack on the plane. That's how you open the book. Exactly. Exactly. Someone's like, I read this on a plane and we had to land the plane. emotional on planes. It's like my time.

to like we're talking about. I cry a lot. Yeah, I love it. But I love that it's in the airport. So airports, but you can find it anywhere where you can find books. Instagram is my main platform. So millennial. Dot therapist is my handle. And then I started a substack, which I think is something I'm going to lean into because it's more existential stuff. The really kind of dark, twisty, fun part of being human that I'm going to explore in a more longer form. So that's under Sarah Kubrick. Okay. Amazing. Okay. Well, thank you for being here. I'd love. really love this episode. I love focusing. I mean, this is so much about like dating sex relationships, but the relationship you have with yourself should be the primary one that you work on and focus on. Absolutely. It's beautiful. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. And you guys

know where to find us. Girls GottaEatat.com. Tour tickets, of course. And you can follow us. Girls Gotta Eat Podcasts on Instagram. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Raina.com. And our other company, Vibes only. Get your vibrators. Get your pumpkins splice blowjel. Get all the things. Vives only.com. Vives only on Instagram, subscribe on YouTube, share this episode with a friend who might need it. And we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.