Girls Gotta Eat - Dominating in Sex and Dating feat. Shan Boodram

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

We could not be more excited to talk sex and dating with one of the greats, Shan Boodram. We chat with the sexologist/relationship expert/best-selling author about taking control of your love life, making the first move (it might not be what you think), being your most desirable self, communicating better with your partner, asking for what you want in the bedroom, relationship commitment styles and if "monogamy is dead", and more. We're also sharing our listeners' go-to sexts, and giving exciting updates on a few situations from recent episodes. Hope you enjoy! Follow Shan on Instagram @ShanBoody and check out her show Sexology on Quibi. Follow us @GirlsGottaEatPodcast, Ashley @AshHess, and Rayna @Rayna.Greenberg. Check our website for tour dates and merchandise. Thank you to our partners this week: Uqora: Get proactive about urinary tract health and 20% off at uqora.com/gge. Bright Cellars: Visit brightcellars.com/gge and receive 50% off your first 6-bottle box. Candid: Go to candidco.com/gge, code GGE for your risk-free starter kit + $75 off. Ritual: Get 10% off during your first 3 months at ritual.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The whole notion of like women not making the first move is so fucking crazy because imagine that. This part of your life could make up for potentially two thirds of your overall happiness. And you have no say. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. October. Spooky season. Ooh, it's the fall. I had a really good.

You guys have doing your spells? I had a nice walk this morning. It was crisp out. It was beautiful. I got a little pumpkin spice latte. Quist. Crisp. Okay.

Okay. Okay. I knew it. I do those. Listen, we haven't talked to my Lisp in a while and some girl tagged us an Instagram story asking her friend, do I have a Lisp and no one told me? Like Rana. Like she was saying,

she was a text to her friend. She was like, do I have a Lisp and no one told me like Rana? And her friend was like, no girl, you haven't had a Lisp ever since you got your retainer on. She's like, do you promise you would tell me? It was so much. Like Rana. 30 years, I had no idea how to Lisp. I feel like I haven't heard it later. No, you're fine. You're doing great. You're doing amazing, sweetie. It's from my permanent retainer.

Okay. We're back from Ohio and I got to ask you. Oh, my God. When this happened in March, when we shut everything, did you think our first trip back on a plane would be a couple's trip to Cincinnati? Oh, my God. Nope. I want you just so you guys know the key to any good relationship, we always say we don't sit together on planes,

we don't stay together in hotels, and that's why we get along so well. It really is. And we don't fuck any of the same guys. Yeah, that's so true. We don't have the same taste. Never happened once. Yeah, we got back.

We did Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland. Yeah, never saw that coming. that we would just take what six months off, seven months off? Why do we do Cleveland first? You tell it. Do you tell it better pay? What? Because that's where we wanted to go?

Because someone asked us. Yeah, someone asked us. Someone tweeted us, come to Cleveland. And then I responded and said, we love hilarities, the club. And then hilarious was like, well, come on then. And we were like, okay. So like, yeah, we kind of backed it out of Cleveland and added on Cincinnati where we'd never been in Columbus that we've already been.

And we love it. So we had such a great time. I mean, those are like the best, nicest people. It really was such a good time. And obviously we have thought about these live shows every day since March and how much we miss being with you guys. And it just was so fun and wild. And people were well behaved and safe and did the right thing and warm ass and were

respectfully each other and of us. And it was just such a dream to be on stage again and be with you guys. And we're going to keep trying to do it as much as it's safe and possible. Yeah. It was really safe. Like the tables are, I think they actually measured like six feet between tables. Hilarities. I'm not sure about the others, maybe.

but hilarity is installed a whole new HVAC system to like put like instead of recirculating like stale air like there is these dividers between tables I felt like if you adhere to the rules which everybody did you know you're totally safe. I'm laughing because also like they have to stop serving alcohol at 10 p.m. And like that's my vibe. Like I'm never trying to stay out past 11.

I know. Maybe 11.30. But my vibe is like ghost before midnight always. And I don't have to anymore. I could just go home. I know. It's perfect. So we had such a good time.

we just had like all these really fun, wild, like memorable moments. And I just wanted to share one. No, I want you to share your favorite, which is different than very different than my favorite. Okay. And this is also an update on a listener story we talked about a few weeks ago, our episode with Kelly Knight about doing spells. We had her do terror readings at the end for a few listener submission stories. And if you guys listened, this girl submitted a story that said she was dating this

really great guy, but she was thinking about women. and she was interested in women. And Kelly pulled the cards and told her she really needed to explore women. Whether it meant telling this guy, Rainey, I think you mentioned, like, just tell him, see what he says. Or just breaking up with him and really like going down that road because that's like really what her soul wanted. And she came to one of the shows. She emailed us and she said, I have an update. I actually played the podcast for the guy I'm dating.

And he was like, I don't want to deprive you of something like, you know, basically I still want to date. you, but you can do this and date other women. And so she came to the show. We were like, can we mention this at the show? She said we could. And she, we were like chatting with her. She was in the audience. And then she even said, she was like, so if there's any like girls here tonight, you know,

that are interested. And this girl raised her hand right in the front row. And then we brought them up. Also, by the way, pitch black club. We can't see what they look like in the point. And then they both came up and they met. And I really feel like they vibed immediately. they're the prettiest girls.

They're the prettiest girls. I mean, all of our audience is the prettiest. Yes, but we were joking that like, of course, that guy was like, do you do whatever you want? Like, as long as I can hold on to you, she seemed like the sweetest, coolest chick and like stunningly beautiful.

I know, she walked up and stayed. I was like, get out of here. Of course. And the other girl was so hot. I know. Go off. And send me a video. I want to watch you too.

I know. So that was probably my favorite moment. We had some other, that was Columbus late show. Something else crazy happened to with like these girls. they had like a crossover with one of their exes, whatever. We were like, please don't fight each other.

Yeah, we were like, please don't fight. So my favorite moment came, show number six, Cleveland. We never in six shows in four days. That was aggressive. Yeah. But my favorite moment, sixth show, we get on stage. And we always like ask, we like see who's in the audience. And we look around.

There's like, once in a blue moon. There's a few couples always. And we always like, talk to them. There was this guy. And he was like really cute. And he was at the table of three girls. And we were like, you know, like, which one of them are you fucking? He was like, no, I'm here to like see Raina.

And I was like, I'm going to tell some stories tonight that you see if you like me still. And I told probably the most pathetic story about my dating life and the most fucked up story about my dating life. That's fair. And I get off to see. He really was so cute. And we got off stage and after she was like to heck I DM you. And I was like, no, it's so weird. And I looked it up and I'm like searching for his name because like a lot of times we'll get off stage and somebody, usually the security guard that I've been sexually harassing, will have DM me.

and he never DM me. He DMed Ashley. He did DM me. He did DM me. He switched to stance mid-show. He was like, it's too bad. You didn't come to the bar after. I would have loved to see you.

That was so awkward. I go, Rana, did that guy DM you? And she was like, no. I was like, oh, weird. So weird. She gave me his Instagram handle. I looked up, I was like, I like searched.

He, like, for real did not. And, like, we were, like, even look at his Instagram, realized he, like, was pretty cute. Oh, he's very cute. The light was, like, hitting his him in the face directly. Yeah. The whole night. So I was like, I mean, Fools had a hair, full had a hair beard. Yeah.

Yeah. And, like, a nice Midwestern kid. Adam, if you're out there. He's like, he goes to know him all set on Ray Night. I'm kidding. I told probably the most fucked up sex story of the whole summer that I had. So I don't, I don't blame him. Well, if you guys are coming to Nashville, you'll hear it.

Yeah. So that's. That's where we're going next. And then after that, who's to say? We don't know. I'm asking Jared. Wherever Jared's going. Jared went to Dallas.

I mean, who knows? We're on the follow Jared tour. I love Jared Fried, but a friend of mine, she's his number one fan. It's so embarrassing. Look, when I say it a lot. I'm going to buy her a cameo video of him. No, you're not. You're not going to buy a cameo from our friend.

Yes, I am. We'll support him, I guess. Yeah. I haven't I've been Her birthday's in December I've been planning this for months Oh my God

I saw that he was on there So that's her birthday present That is so funny I support it I mean I probably could just FaceTime him And be like say hi to my friend But I don't care

Yeah Okay one more update And that is that I got a DM last night 1037 p.m. From this girl And she said hi Huge fan I'm out in the East Village

And a bartender came over with a perfume spray and went rogue on my friend. Was the bar you went to on your date? Yada yada bar. If not, this is a wild trend. Yes, it was the same bar. And if you guys listen, this was a couple weeks ago, I talked about how the server, I was on this date

and the server came over and sprayed me in the face with a little bottle of rose water. Color me the least shocked I've ever been in my life. Someone who is that rogue and out there that's going to spray you in the face has done it before and he'll do it again. I can't believe that happened though to somebody else. I can't.

And again, if you guys, listened or if you're new here, welcome. But he is fucking one of our listeners' moms. If you're totally lost, go back and listen because that's a good story. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that pretty much sums it up. Which episodes that three weeks ago? I think so. Okay. Yeah. Don't jam us. And we want to keep this short. We have an amazing episode for you guys today with Shan Boudram. I just like saying it. Shambodram. Shambootty. Shambouti. We love her. Look, if I was going to date a woman, are you kidding? I felt like I was on your date the whole time. The two of you.

She's taken and I actually didn't even ask her. You know, we were remiss to ask her if she would fuck you. If she dated women. Do you know? No. She seems pretty fluid and open. Yeah, I just didn't know. That's nothing that we talked about.

I am curious. I don't, I'll be ever. You're by curious. About Chan. No, the whole time I was just thinking like if I could see you with a woman, like that's the person I would pick for you. I 100%. Agree.

It's like the way that she looks, the way that she talks. She's, like, really confident. She's, like, big dick energy. She's so smart. Okay. Stop. She's pregnant. The way she makes me feel when I'm in bed.

To late at night. Honestly, when I masturbate to her. Ten can not recommend it enough. I'm actually, like, out of 140-something episodes, I don't know how many guests, 100 guests. This is the most I've ever really seen a guest for you. Really? Of all the men and women, this is the most. most I've ever seen you. Like, you know, you said that I should date Guy Winch, which I should.

I really feel like you should date Shand, if you're listening. You said you want to be friends, so let's get it going. Well, actually, this is actually a perfect segment of what the game is at the end, because we asked you guys what your go-to sex were. Yeah. Sex. I have some advice for sexting in general, but I think you should take one of those lines and stir right up to Shann. Sex Shand. She's like, hey, Ashley, first of all, I'm pregnant. No, she's so wonderful. We were so excited to have her. But before we get to it, I just want to give one review. I took notes. I like when you take notes. Okay. So Emily and Paris came out on Netflix. This is a show created by Darren Starr, who created Sex and the City, who created 90210. Melrose plays

Younger, which I will touch on Younger. But anyway, Emily and Paris is on Netflix about this girl named Emily. She's played by Lily Collins. It's like pretty, it's a cliche story. She gets, She gets a job in Paris and she goes to Paris. Whatever. Okay. There is a narrative that it is like sex in the city. And if you miss sex in the city, you'll like it. I am so offended by it.

Sex and the city was ahead of its time. It was so edgy. It was like so raunchy. It was clever. It felt real. It wasn't like fucking cheesy. Like Emily and Paris is watchable. It's decent.

It's fun-ish. It's contrived. It's, just kind of corny. And I like corny stuff sometimes. Like, you know I love a Hallmark holiday movie. But I just feel like it should have been so much better. And they're also comparing it to Gossip Girl.

I'm like, am I taking crazy pills here? Like, how can, how dare you compare the show to Sex and City and Gossip Girl? How dare you? I am just honestly so offended by it. It's just not edgy. There's like sort of surprising moments I texted you. I was like, oh, she's having FaceTime sex. Like, sort of surprising.

but they almost feel misplaced because the rest of the show just isn't cool enough to support those moments. Is it these like contrived moments that don't feel like they could ever happen on Earth? No, not that.

It's just like the show the show was kind of cheesy. Like the tone, I don't know how to describe it. Like I guess you could kind of compare it to younger. Again, it has the same creator as younger. But I think younger is so much wittier and so much better.

And they might also just be comparing it to Sex and the City because it has the same creator and same costume designer, Patricia Field, who also did Devil Prada. But I personally think so many of the clothes in Emily and Paris are so heinous. There is just like so many bright colors and so many patterns and I know everything is designer and I know people

are like watching it for the fashion, but I am not a fan. And I loved the fashion and sex in the city and Devil Wars Prada and I just don't think it compares at all. And the very last thing that I'm going to say is that she's also like an influencer and like the influencer stuff is so dated and corny. Like every time she uploads something to Instagram, a little piece of me dies. Like, it's like older people wrote this. And I'm sure that they did. Like, I know Darren Starr is like an icon in creating these shows. But it still comes down to like the writers, the producers. You know, it's not just the creator. And like, I don't know. I feel like they miss the mark. The scenery is beautiful. The actors are beautiful. The, the girl that plays her best friend is really funny and

fun to watch. That's probably the best part of the show. The guy that she's like interested in that's her neighbor is like super fucking hot. And it is shot in Paris. Like it's shot there. So it's like beautiful. But also I read that French people hate it. Like the verdict is in from real Parisians and they're not a fan. I guess just at the end of the day, I just have seen all these like online publications call it the modern day sex in the city. I'm like, are you guys high? Yeah, but also like I feel like this is such like a played out narrative of like the modern day sex in the city. It could just not like why do you compare it to like one of the greatest shows of all time? The thing is I think that we all do love shows like Sex and the City and Gossip Girl and are always seeking out shows that are on that level. This just wasn't it.

Like shows that I would put on that level insecure, obviously. Girlfriends got a divorce was great. Younger. Again, I can't hype it enough. It's just like this wasn't it. And it's just like so corny. She just will like upload something with the dumbest hashtag. And I'm like, did you guys not talk to like actual young people?

Like it feels really weird. I always feel like this is people that are in their 40s and 50s making shows. about people in their 20s. You know, it's like, was there anyone that was even, like, in their 30s in the writing room? It is odd because, like, even sex in the city,

like, it's about women and they had men in the writer's room being like, is this how old men behave? And I think in Sex and City was, like, women in their 30s, probably there was, like, women in their 30s. Like, this is supposed to really speak to, like, a younger, like, young millennial,

maybe even like borderline Gen Z audience with, like, the influencer stuff. And it just was like, oh my God. So anyway, I mean, again, I watched it. I didn't like to turn it off. but don't be out here comparing it. Ashley's offended. Ashley's personally offended.

I'm personally offended. We had a much different day yesterday. I laid in bed watch murder stuff. I watched this new doc on Netflix, which I super recommend. It's called American Murder. They dug pretty deep for that title because he's American and murdered his wife.

And it's a pretty horrific story, but really well done. It's an hour and a half. It's not a super long commitment. And I always like to recommend docs to you guys. And I have a commitment for this week. I have two commitments for this. week.

You're going to date. You're going to get back out there. Which I am out there. Adam and I are, well, Adam and I broke up and he's dating you now. My commitment for this week is, so I normally, on my bike, I normally take classes from friends of ours that are like flywheel instructors. I signed up for Peloton and I'm taking Alex Toussaint this week and I'm very excited to let you guys know how it is.

Yeah, he's the best. He's like my favorite instructor. But also we love Fred. We love Bobby West Side. So take those two. Yep. I put them up both on my story all the time. So you guys hopefully know who that is.

But I was a real piece of shit this week. I ate fried food and drank every night. And I only worked out once. So we were on the road, though. You'll get back back to it. I'm going to snap back. No one will motivate you. Like Alex Toussaint.

I do not want to be out here given Peloton ads. I feel like I'm going to mastermind to Alex Toussaint. I'm like, I had to stop. If anyone knows Alex Toussaint, like we'd love to have him on podcast. I would love that. Is he a girlfriend, married? I know nothing about him. All right.

Well, he'll let us know when he comes down to show. Guys, let us know. Someone's got to know him. I mean, we could also DM him or find his manager. I don't know, whatever. Find his manager. I don't know. He's like a celib.

Him and Ali Love. Yes, we are really, really excited to introduce this guest to you guys today. She is a certified sex educator, dating coach, relationship expert. I flubbed that already. With over 40 million YouTube views and a decade of experience. She is a best-selling author of a book that I'm currently reading, The Game of Desire, Five Surprising Secrets to Dating, with dominance and getting what you want

and the host of a daily show on Quibi, Sexology with Shambu Dram. Please welcome to the show, Shambu Dram. Poping out the cake. Hey. Hello. Pregnant lady in a cake. Hey.

Welcome to the show. We actually just on the show sexology, we had a guest come on talking about honey trapping. And she was saying, because that's essentially like people who try to get your partner to cheat so you can prove that they're a cheater. And she's like she's looking for a range of people. people because you never know what someone's type is. And I was like, should I be the pregnant

honey trapper? Because that might be somebody's fetish. For sure. I can pop out of cakes. I'm glad you brought that up. Yes. I'm glad you brought that up in case anybody wants that. Yes. And you are our second eight month pregnant guest that we've had on the show recently. Way to make me feel not special. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of us out there in 2020. Many of us are pregnant this year. We know. But you started it before the quarantine. When COVID was just like a glimmer. in the country's eye, you were like, I'm going to get knocked up. Thank you, Ashley. You were on the forefront.

You were not here just following everybody else. It was getting knocked up during COVID. You got it in on Valentine's Day. Yes. So technically, I mean, I guess whoever had sex on New Year's Day is winning. But no, I'm in second, which I'll take a second place. It's fine. I had sex on New Year's Day with my neighbor from upstairs.

Oh. I was like, hey, do you want to come down and come inside of me? So what happened on January the 1st? Yeah. Yeah, I kicked everybody out of my tournament. Started 2020. I talked about. Yeah.

Well, we're really excited to have. have you. And we always ask people, we love your origin story and how you got into this. So we always ask people, you know, in terms of your background and your expertise, what gives you the right? So we would love to hear from you. How did you get in today? What interested you about love and dating and sex? Do you have the floor? I want to say first and foremost, I feel like this is an area that everyone should feel the right in. I think it's had a lot of barbed wire and a lot of tension around it. And even, you know, as a woman of color, calling myself an expert has been a place. of contention. I've had a lot of contentious moments on various shows because of that, but I want to

empower everybody to feel like you can be an expert in the space because you fuck, you date, you love, you connect, you are intimate, no matter what your ranges or your scale or what identifiers you use. At the end of the day, this is not like some obscure topic that only five people should know about. Everyone should feel jurisdiction to feel like I know what I'm doing. I've put the work in and I actually have advice and relative experience that applies. So I actually think that my foray into sex education started off when I was like five years old. You know how like some people are just like really good at the piano, like really good at art when they were a kid? I just like a natural attraction to the body and a natural attraction to touch. It was always very

physical. I think physical touch with my love language from the time I came out the womb. And I grew up in a Caribbean household and I went to a Catholic school. So if you put those three things together, it equals suppression. And so a lot of my natural earth. and the things I thought were good and right were deeply discouraged. And as a result of that, I sort of just went into this, you know, area where I looked at my sexuality as a negative part of who I was. Fast forward to when I went through puberty, then I was like, okay, well, these hormones have a different opinion, but I also thought it was bad still. So I ended up really looking for backdoorways, pun intended, to express my sexuality, which ended up being watching a lot of VHS

porn, because I'm born in the 80s. And, oh, also too, like reading fiction books. And so a lot of my sexual instincts were based on lives. They were based on entertainment. So when I started to actually be sexually active, obviously it was shit. I had a really shitty teen sex life. I had a lot of partners, zero orgasms, didn't feel connected to myself, had very low self-esteem. So when I turned 19, I thought to myself, all right. So either everybody from my past was right. And this is a terrible place that causes green vulvas and heartbreak and copious amounts of like doom and a trip to hell, or I'm just interacting with it in the wrong way, and I have to learn the right way for myself. So I decided to try and see if there was a better way to be a sexual person on this planet. So I got a library card and just read all summer long. And I read every book you could possibly read at the time that was available at my Pickering Library, with me from Toronto. And what the thing is I came out with is that there's so much great information out there. There's so much life-changing information that could really help a lot of people,

but is boring as fuck. It's really dry. And, you know, sex education in many ways is bad sex. So I just saw a niche for someone to come in and make the information that was so good as interesting as the porn and the fiction novels and gossip girl. And so why couldn't those two things be married? Why couldn't sex education be sexy? And that was in 2004. And honestly, I would say that today my mission is still the same. I graduated from school for journalism, put out a book, became a sex education counselor in Canada and worked at the University of Toronto, moved to California and I got an associate in sex ed, and then got certified as a sexologist. And then again, just continue my mantra of how do I make this conversation as palatable and as exciting and inviting as possible? And how do I empower

or more people to be their own sex and relationship expert. The end. I love that. I'm so inspired. She just went off. I think that's wonderful. Like, you're right. It's like,

why should it be like boring and like dusty old books in the library? Do you remember the first books or the first sex education resources that you found on your own? I don't know. I mean, I honestly feel like I was less like a sexually interested kid. You know, like Raina, you like masturbated as a kid. Like I didn't really like feel that.

Those feelings on it. Yeah. So, um, I don't know. I remember reading some Judy Bloom books that touched on some things. That's Jeannie My Story, too. Yeah. So I don't know.

Like I had a really good first sexual experience that kind of like paved the way in a really good way. Like a guy that went down to me that made me feel comfortable with my body. So I felt like I got off on the right foot, not to like brag and rub in your face. I know you had such a bad experience. But still it didn't have an orgasm for two years later. You know what I mean? Like it was like, yeah, this is fun. But where's the whole like coming?

part that I saw in the movies. And conversely, I've always masturbated. I can get myself off, but I don't think I came with a partner until like my 20s. I want to quote you back to you because I'm listening to your audiobook. I'm not reading it. But you said a couple of things that like really stuck with me and you talked about how like with all these other things like career and goals that people do tons of research and consult experts and like why aren't we doing this with sex and that the result is that like most people have no idea what they're doing when it comes to love, no idea what they're doing wrong. And as a result, no idea how to like change the romantic future. So, yes, I took notes on your book. But I just, I love the reason that you got into this.

And it's so, it's so true. Like if I wanted to learn how to be a doctor, I'd go to school. I would research it. Why aren't we doing that more with sex and dating and actually researching it? It's the most bizarre thing because it exists in two different categories. Like, if you do research sex and dating, you're desperate, you're weird, you're doing something wrong. Or you're a super freak. And it's like that doesn't actually apply to anywhere else in life, right? If I saw somebody on the subway reading a book about something, I'd be like, oh, they're the shit at that. They're great at that.

They're passionate about that topic. But if I see someone reading a relationship book in the subway, I'm like, what a fucking loser or what a creep. And why? It's such a bizarre thing to silo off and to say that anybody who takes an active interest in their sex or dating life is either a super freak or is super messed up. But the truth of the matter is, those are the people who are probably doing it well because they're putting the time and energy behind seeing the results that they want

in the world. Yeah, I'm not trying to like date the dude that was like a football star in high school and like never, I want to date the dude as a nerd, sat at home, just thought about how to eat pussy. That's the guy I want to date. Well, let me ask you honest question. So if you go to a person's house, you go to a dude's house and he has a bookshelf full of sex and relationship books. What do you think? I would think you're a creep. I would. Well, I don't know. It depends on. I live in the honesty. It's a loaded question. and I'm afraid like, good God. I mean, are there three or are they 50?

Like, they're coming to point. Are there other books to? It's just like a wall of sex books. Let's say like it's 75, 25. There's a couple of like motivational books. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now as it stands. I'm probably 75, 25. Towards sex 75.

Yeah, sex and relationships 75, 25. Like, let me look at one. I have one book that's called, I'm like Datanomics. That's not it. Look with this book right here. The big book of sex is on Ashley's. We have one right here. There we go. See?

I guess I just have some follow-up questions. Well, Rayne and I dated these two guys, these two friends. This one summer we fucked these 26-year-olds and they really could fuck. And I don't know how I got on the topic, but like he said that he took it upon himself to figure out what women want in bed. I can't remember exactly. The revolution. Yeah, like read books, listen to podcasts, talk to women.

Like he realized at, I don't know, 23, I don't actually know how to please a woman. I've never really thought about it. I've only watched porn, whatever movies, read books, but like took an actual interest in like how can I please a woman in the bedroom and that was so hot to me. And the orgasms from both of them. Unbelievable. I think it's so hot. I think it's so incredibly hot if I see it's just rare as well too, especially for people with penises. Because like there's just the messaging constantly that your penis is going to cure cancer and be able to like save the world. And so. So you feel like if you have to learn about it, then you're taking a step backwards. And so I love people who are like, no. And I always say that. Like, as an expert, people are like, oh, like, dudes must want to have sexy all the time. Like, dudes must really like always constantly approach you.

I'm like, never. I think it's actually the opposite. I think that most women are really drawn to me and have questions and want to start a dialogue. And a lot of men want to, like, compete with me, ask about my credentials, ask how I know what I know. And I think what's underneath that is like the fear that I could fuck their girlfriend better than them.

I've never made that clean. I could believe. I actually am just looking at you and like I know you could fuck all the girlfriends better. You just have a vibe about you. I can tell you could fuck. Well, Shan, we have a few different things we want to discuss with you. But I think first off, we would love to talk about this dating with dominance and what that means.

So we know our audience and everybody loves actual, actionable things. And we just want to talk about it. Yeah. Not like, you know, just approach a guy at a bar and have to be confident. Be confident, yes. Or like, be a prude, be a bitch. Like, play hard to get. Like, it's these vague concepts. Or be a vixen so that you have to try to figure out what exactly that means. And again, going back to the fact that we all have zero education, probably very little scaffolding. But I think that the point is that a lot of people just assume that you're supposed to just be good at these things. Like you're supposed to just naturally know how to flirt. You're supposed to just naturally know how to walk up to somebody or. how to have sex, how to give a blowjob, etc.

There's supposed to be this thing, or you learn on the job. You know, you have to look into the right teacher. You have to also look into the ability to communicate what you like because people might learn something about their body and have no idea how to communicate that in the actual bedroom. And then again, there's like no tools to give you the language to describe those things. Like even asking somebody, how do you orgasm? Like there's very vague descriptions.

There's very vague language that's used. And so as a result, how do you pass that information on? So to me, dating with dominance essentially. is having a clear goal, knowing what you want, and feeling like you've got some actionable steps behind it. Like, you're not in the passenger seat. I think a lot of the messaging that women get as well, too, is that like women in a tower sort of thing of, I want to have a partner one day. You're like, I want to have great sex. I want to have an orgasm. And then we're waiting for the right partner to like come and give us this experience. And even the whole notion of like women not making

the first move is so fucking crazy because imagine that. This part of your life could make up for potentially two-thirds of your overall happiness. And you have no say in who you're picking. You have no say in who you're talking to. You're just hoping the person that you like is going to have the gumption or be having the right kind of day or not accidentally swipe left and you when they wanted to swipe right. Like you're putting so much power in other people's hands in an area that has a massive impact on your well-being. So that's where dating odominance means. I think people interpreted that. Like, I'm telling people to go up to dudes at bars like, can I buy you a drink? Like, I'm not at all suggesting that. Even the first move, I think, is not what people think.

The first move doesn't even have to be walking over. It could just be positioning yourself around somebody. It could be a gesture and a look over. It could be making sure that there's three bits of eye contact. It could be standing beside the person at the bar after being in their bubble for a while and seeing if they bite. So the first move doesn't even have to necessarily be that overt. Can I get your number? But in essence, you're playing a role. You are an active participant in this part of your life because why would you not want

to be? Right. I think there's so much information that comes from our mothers or it's things that are outdated or something that worked for someone else that doesn't necessarily work for you. And I think that you can't just tell everybody to sit back and wait because what is the point And how many missed opportunities would you have everywhere if you just sat back and waited? Exactly.

In your job, if you guys just waited for someone else to give you a podcast, if you're just like, well, if it's meant to be, then the right person. Yeah. Okay,

I love this thing if it's meant to be because it's like, I was talking to Ashley about this yesterday. It's just not how I live my life. Like, if it's meant to be, it'll be meant to be. No,

if it's meant to be, I will take actionable steps to push it in the right direction. I don't believe that the universe is going to drop shit in your lap. Be an active participant in the it's meant to be. I'll make it be. And there's all kinds of stories.

There's always going to be somebody who I meet who was just like, yeah, I just met my forever partner, just walking in the street or like, even getting pregnant, for example, am I trying to conceive journey? Because I was like public about that. It took me six months. The advice, the number one advice I got was like, don't think about it. Just let it happen when you're not thinking it's going to happen when you least expect. And I'm really proud to say that the month that I got pregnant is when I was like fucking

super anal about it. Like we had all of the equipment possible. we had all the right lube, we had the right timing, we had the ovulation strips. I bought a special underwear to make sure the semen would, like, retention would be high. So like the month that I conceived, it was like really, really intentional. And so a lot of my life story is very intentional. And the game of desire is written for people who want to be intentional. Of course, there's the flip side.

There is the whimsical, right? I always say that with L.A. too. You can move to L.A., get a job at Starbucks and be like, one day, a big time movie producer will walk in and see me and be like, take off that apron like you're going to set. And then there's the people who have to come here and bust their ass and go to classes and suck up to casting directors and fail a bunch of times and go to auditions and almost get something and then get something that ends up getting canceled and then COVID happens, whatever your story is. It doesn't have to be like this easy, happy go lucky story can be really intentional.

And I always say like as much as it's great to have the Starbucks story, if that one producer, or who you lucked into, for whatever reason, stops working with you. You don't have the skills to repeat that again. You have to depend on luck all over again. So when you are intentional, no one can really take anything away from you because even if an experience or a partner leaves,

you already know the process to getting exactly what you want going forward should you want to enter back into the game. I love that. Like, how do you know the lightning will strike again? But let's talk about this notion of like, is it natural that a man still needs to chase a woman a little bit? you know, like I think you hear a lot of experts say, like, there's still an innate feeling that a man does want to have a little bit of the chase. I think women get a little confused

where they're like, okay, you know, I'm happy to be in the driver's seat. I'm happy to do some things. But I still don't want to have to completely be in control this. I want somebody to chase me a little bit. Isn't that what they're supposed to do? I mean, what do you say to that? I feel like if you're organically doing dating the right way, the chase is naturally going to happen, meaning that if I put the work into myself and I have confidence. I know I'm great and bad because I read the books. I did the exercise of the workshop. I listened to the podcast. I know that I'm a great dater. I know I'm great at seduction. So as a result, I really prize myself. So I don't ever meet somebody and throw my intentions at them.

You know, I might have an ultimate intention for what I want out of dating. But every individual that I meet, I'm like, I'm always asking, are you worthy? I'm always asking, is this a good partnership for me? As a result of that, I'm moving slower. And you have to convince me because this is like a slow, gradual process. And if at a certain point, I don't feel the same devotion or excitement from you, I'm going to start to back off. So I don't think you have to be really heady about the like, oh, let me make sure that the chase is happening. If you're treating intimacy the right way and you're prising yourself and every advantage or every step that somebody gets with you, they have to work for it. I think that natural sort of push and pull should exist. And it should exist on the other side as well,

too. I don't want to meet a partner who's just throwing themselves at me. because that makes me feel concerned. Like, you know, if you got free hamburgers on the street, right? There's something that you're like, why is this hamburger free? There's something always like, there's this weird thing. Like, nobody else wants this hamburger. Like, it gets confusing for you because life doesn't work that way. So I think if you're around somebody who definitely is sort of giving everything away for free,

there is cause for pause there and probably a lack of confidence that's at the root of that, not necessarily a new game or tactic that they should adopt for themselves. Yeah, we always say, you know, relationships should be. sort of like the icing on the cake of your life. And you should always be working on yourself to have better friendships, better hobbies, better goals, better career. And then you show up to the relationship as a better person. And then you are a prize. And you don't have to be like, I'm a prize and I'm a princess. My dad said so. It's like, no, I've actually worked on my life. I've given myself a good life. And you should want to be with somebody like me. So we always say it starts

with you first. A hundred percent. I mean, it could be heartbreaking when things don't work out. But at the end of the day, it's like when you know you have the skills to repeat your dream come true, you don't harp on the ones that are lost. Like I always like to give the analogy, you know, like sushi never gets offended if somebody else wants to eat pizza. It's like, I'm not going to fucking put cheese on myself because some people wanted that. I'm like sushi. I know I'm delicious.

I know I'm bomb. I may not be everyone's cup of tea. Don't get me wrong. Everyone's preference is going to be sushi. But there is like an inherent knowingness that I am worthy and I'm awesome and I'm great. And if you don't pick me, it doesn't mean that somebody else won't be like, that's my favorite thing ever. So,

100%. And we always say just like, live your life. Like, don't wait around. You know, when you become your best self, you're not radiating desperation. Like,

you're radiating, like, confidence. And it's not this like, I don't need anybody type of thing. It's just like, if this works out great. If not, like, I'll be okay.

I think sometimes there's a neediness and desperation, not for men and women where the other person can sense it. And so it's like, we always say, like,

you can fuck a guy the first night. And if you're just cool about it, it's fine. Like there's no rules. I, Rayne and I both dated people that we had sex with the first night. Like, because we just were like, cool. And we, and we weren't the next morning. Like, what are we?

You know what I mean? Like, I'm married to my fuck buddy. Right. Like owning it. And again, like, be confident as much easier said than done. It takes work. That's the fucking truth. I want to mention that, Ashley, because you got three people sitting here who talk about

this every week, who listen to people's stories, who read books. You have experts on all the time. The two of you are experts. You have created an environment. in a community. And so this is not us just being like, believe in yourself. You're a bad bitch. You know, they earn, they deserve you. They got to work for you. If you haven't put the work in, it's like you can't expect to be an incredible cook because you set the intention for yourself. You can't expect to be great at golf just because you have the confidence in yourself.

It does take a process. And the game of desire is even like really just spelling that out. Like, hey, there's just not an overnight experience. And that was even a learning occur for me because in that particular book, I worked with six women. and I called it like six weeks to being an ultimate seducer. Like that was my original idea. And then lo and behold, six months in, we were on phase one still. And I was like, oh. Because you don't realize like I've developed the muscle.

Yeah, I really overshot it because I'm like, these are people who've never done this work before. You know, it might have been easier for me to pick up these concepts because I've been in the space now for 15 years. And so I talk about it constantly. But for them, it was brand new and everything was so much slower. So if you don't feel like, I am a boss bitch right now, that's a starting point. It's not necessarily an invitation to like delusion.

So you've done the work on yourself and you're showing up to these dates. And I think that people are like, okay, so like what are the actionable items I can do? And how do I ask somebody out or get asked out? What do I do on the date? I love what you talked about, what you talk about on the date. And when you leave a date, I thought that was all really great. And I think a lot of that really drums up passion and desire. So we want to get people actual items.

And we don't want you to give out your whole book. You guys should buy the book. But at least like a few teases, takeaways, you know, of things that people can do. Because I think it'll kind of like blow people's mind. And then they'll want to, I like to blow people's mind.

I want to know the whole thing. What was really great. So in the book, I had like a series of experts come in because seduction and dating in general in love. Like they're not necessarily like siloed off skills sets, right? You can learn from every different perspective and every different vocation.

And so we actually had a stripper come in who I thought was really, when you think about it, the perfect person to talk about how to make the first move because their entire job is to walk up to strangers, like, hey, daddy, do you want to dance? So, you know, like, hey, mom, like, what's going on? Like, do you have some time for me? And so, and then to create a rapport

because the longer they can stay with you, the more money that they make. And so their whole career is dependent on creating really fast, intimate connections. And if they don't, then they don't make many. So the stripper was saying to us, like, how she figures out what clients are receptive and which ones are not. And so what she does is she looks at somebody and first and foremost always takes their temperature.

So becoming an expert on body language, even subtle things like do they have, if they're a woman, for example, is their purse up or is their purse down? Are their shoulders closed off or is it opened up to you? Have you noticed that person has like pointed their hips in your direction? Before you even go up to somebody, is there some nonverbal communication that happens so it doesn't end being like a cold open. So have they looked at you? Have you waved at them? Have you created some kind of interaction? And then once you have all of these different cues that this person is going to be receptive, obviously we're talking about in person, not online, but you make that entrance and then

you start the conversation. And you start the conversation off with a question. And if the person doesn't ask you a question back, you get the fuck out of there because they're selfish and weird. So if I ask you, you know, like what's the best thing? And they're not trying to keep you there. Not trying to keep you there. Exactly. And if they are. read the room. They're going to be like, oh, fuck, she came over and asked me a question. I said something so stupid and weird. And now she left.

Like, let me put the effort in to go back over there because I dropped the ball there. So that's every step of the way again, you're looking for reciprocation, right? You're never just like, oh, they didn't wave back. Oh, they didn't ask a question. Let me keep investing time. Like, no, if you're not reciprocating, I'm out. And something interesting that she said that I really took from is that, like, everybody is so bored of the typical conversations.

they're so bored, even with social media, we're really bored of compliments even. We're bored of like your outfit's really great or like your hair or whatever. So in order to engage people, you want to make your conversation sexy or weird. And so weird. Weird could be. Sexy or weird. Yeah. It's memorable.

It's memorable. And so she's like, the stripper topics are like the most expensive thing that you've bought recently, something that you're eyeing, that you're dying to do. your thoughts on like the goryest of movies. Sex obviously is a stripper topic. Like money, vacations, decadent foods. Like the things that get people exciting and like bring up their arousal. Like those are the things that you want to dive into as a topic.

And so I feel like everybody should know and practice the stripper topics. Are you saying that as like an opener or like on a first date or both, I guess? Yeah. It's a first, it's an opener. It could be a first day as well. It could be on your dating app, right? rather than me swiping on somebody and being like, oh, like, hey, like, what part of New York do you live in? It could be like, oh, I saw that you were in Peru last year.

Did you go to the Red Light District? It's crazy. Or if you were, oh, I looked on your profile page, I saw that you have a dog. Like, did you know that a dog's fart can help to cure acne? Whatever it is. Like, it's a weird thing. But like something interesting, something that's observational that shows you're paying attention is not copy and pasted. but something that wakes somebody up.

And I do that in my everyday life all the time. That's the thing too is that like becoming great at these things. If you just practice, like imagine being an NBA player and you only practice dunking like in a game. You're not going to be good. You got to practice all of the time. Like when you go out, when you're waiting in line at your local coffee shop, like constantly practicing and seeing what works and what doesn't. I've definitely, as you can tell, I'm a bit more of like a direct person.

So I've been too direct in conversation sometimes and I've learned that I had to scale back. I only learned that because you see people's reactions enough time and say, that isn't what I want to accomplish. So let me try to curve my approach. And also I think that like, you know, saying have confidence is an ambiguous thing. But I think you can find confidence in the fact that like, it just doesn't matter. This is a stranger. So if you say something to a stranger at a bar on a dating app and they don't receive it well,

who cares? Keep it moving. They don't know shit about you. you know. I just, I also just like the idea of, I mean, I don't know that I'm going up to a stranger in a bar and being like, what's your favorite scary movie? But like, I usually like to comment on something observational in the, in the room, which I think can work. And then again, gauge if that person even cares to talk to you because they'll, they'll come back if they want to keep you there. But just coming, just having stuff to talk about on dates. Like I think people think that's so like nerdy to prep for. And it's just not. Like my best girlfriend and I used to joke that like guys, would ask us like what our hobbies were on dates and we would just black out. And now I, we like, then we started to rehearse our answers. Like when a guy like asks like what kind of music you listen to, I'm like, I get put on the spot and I literally started to think about these things in advance. And I don't know if you watched love on the spectrum like we did like this one thing that I loved.

And again, these are people that are facing more challenges than the average person without any disabilities on dates. But like they were running through like ask her this topic. See the response. and gauge it. Like, I love what you said about asking people things that gets them aroused, not necessarily in their loins, but like in their life. Like, what was your favorite trip, like food, like stuff like that? People get like juiced up to talk about.

Like, I was day, I went on this day with this guy. And then he just like texted me every day for a week asking what I was up to that day. And I was so bored and turned off. I'm like, send a meme or anything. Like, what are you up to today? I don't care. Well, those are also not. details about somebody's like details are sort of inconsequential yes I want somebody that has like

a career that's happy whatever but I've been like sort of talking to somebody recently and I don't think we've had like a serious conversation about his thoughts and beliefs and his like we just shoot the shit and talk and I just get to know them I'm we ask silly questions at each other and we're talking about that too like you like this guy for a while and you're like I don't think I know like where he grew up but like we'd always talked about other cool shit other cool shit like yes what if you had a million dollars to spend today and you had to use all of it. You couldn't invest it in like real estate. What would you do with a million dollars? That's the kind of shit. I want to know how you're mine. That's a great question.

Uh-huh. I want to see if you're flying your whole family to France. Are you donating all a bit to charity? Like, I want to know what you're doing with that money. I think that that's like, I don't know. Yeah, I care where you went to college, but like not as much. Well, Raina mentioned something too. She feels like this is a fault of hers. You addressed it in the book as well. Is the like is the leaving and not spending hours and hours going to different places and spending the whole night with somebody on a first date? Can we talk about that a little bit? Yeah, absolutely. Like they'll leave them wanting more.

Yeah. I think that at a certain point, you've sort of realized that you've hit, like, your moratorium and you've made, your work is done. Are you guys Seinfeld fans at all? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Do you know that episode like George Costanza, like, learned, like, when he's made a good joke, it's time to leave, like, George is out?

Because he always makes this great joke, and then he'd stay a little longer. Stay around. So I think that there's something great just about being, like, even if you fuck the person, you know? Like, what we've experienced would be shared is good. and I've had a great experience and it's time to leave. It's like eating. You know, you've eaten and you've enjoyed the meal.

And you have that moment where you're like, oh, should I just like shove some more in my mouth? And then you do and you're like, oh, like, I feel sick now. And the meal has this whole different tone to it. So I think there is something really nice about knowing when to take your leave and knowing when good and good enough has already been accomplished. And to leave somebody wanting more. Like, because I will go to five bars with you.

I'm like, this is fun. I have a lot to say. You'll move in with somebody. They come home with you and never leave. That's her goal that they just come home with her. They're like, hey, I'm on the lease now. It's five in the morning. We're making out.

We've been to five locations. And it's like, I don't know that that builds. It's fun and it's easy to lead into it. But I don't know that it builds desire in a person to want to follow up for the next date. They've had the whole relationship with you. So, you know, it's, you got to leave people wanting a little more. Yeah. And I love Matthew Hussey.

And he talks about that where it's like sometimes he'll be out somewhere with friends and they'll be having a conversation and somebody might join. And it's enjoyable at first. and it's like nice to have this new addition and kind of sexy to have somebody who approaches. But then you notice that they're not leaving and then it gets awkward. And now I have to like get into this position of like, how do I get rid of this person? And I enjoyed having you here. But the truth of the matter is is that like the experience is done.

So I think like that second sense of when that's happening is a pretty important thing to develop. And then I want your feedback on dates over. You left with the appropriate timeframe. By the way, Matthew was on the show in February and talked about how to appropriate people at bars, which was great. But, okay, so dates over, you leave. I want to talk about who sends the next text, what the follow-up communication should be like, and how much are you texting in between dates?

You know what's so much more important? I think people often, like, really think about dating or connecting in terms of the other person, right? Like, how do I get the best out of them? Or, like, what is the archetyte that I'm looking for? That's my best archetype. Really what you should be focusing on is, like, how do I enjoy myself? like what environments, what circumstance will allow me to be my most relaxed version of me.

So if you know that if you send the first text, you're the kind of person who's going to overanalyze and dwell if they actually even wanted to see you. If they are invested, don't send the text. If you feel like sending the first text is going to make you feel like you've put yourself at a lower position, then don't. But if you are like, I don't care. You're irreverent about it. You just want to talk to the person. And you feel like if they don't respond for two hours, you can still be cool if they respond the next day. You're not going to be but hurt about it. So it's really more about knowing yourself

and putting yourself in a position to be fucking cool, funny, relax, chill, awesome. And we talked about that just now, just like how after sex or anything else, like what's a really big component is how you respond. But sometimes we put ourselves in environments where we set ourselves up for failure, where naturally we're going to be on edge or anxious or insecure. And that's the thing that you want to avoid it. cost. I was mentioned that I was in a friends of benefits with my husband. And what was a really important thing for me? Because it was just, it wasn't even, it was a fuckbody situation.

We were not friends. But when we started the relationship and connection, I knew that if I was the one texting first, I would feel that like, you know, that like when you put in a quarter to a slot machine and you pull and you're like, well, I get sevens, you know? And even if I don't care about the quarter, now I'm invested in the process. And so to stop myself from getting too invested in the feedback loop, I just said, I'm never texting first. If he responds to, if he texts me, I'm going to engage right away. I'm not going to play games, but I am literally never going to send the good morning text or yesterday was great text. And so that was really helpful for me to keep the relationship positive and fun. And then ultimately, it gave it a chance

to progress. I just love that. Like, it's not about like manipulation and playing games. It's doing what's natural to you and what's going to make you feel good. And, stable. Stable. What a great word. Overlooked. Underrated. And I'm just a big fan of like if things get to a point.

Just like saying the thing and like a cute, Florida way like we had on a therapist, Guy Winch who was just like, say the thing, but make it cute. You know, like throw in the smiley face or whatever. Like I had a guy that just was like living in my DMs. We'd gone out. We'd fucked. We had a great time. And he just wasn't communicating with me in any other way.

And I finally was like, hey, here's my number unless you want to live in my DMs forever. Smiley face, whatever. He texted. me immediately. And I've also had guys that just want to text and text and text and I said something about hanging out again and I said something in that snarky tone with a smiley face and he didn't respond and I don't care because if that scared you off, you know, I said it in a cute way. I clearly want to see you. You're not taking the bait. You did just want to text me forever. And now I know and I can just move on. Like I think sometimes saying the thing, saying in a

light way that that's authentic to you and then being able to walk away from it can make you feel a lot better in terms of like just sitting around and waiting. Yeah. Yeah, that's indicative of where you're at in life and the confidence that you have and the self-assurance. And then also, you don't operate obviously from the scarcity model of, oh my God, if this person liked me and we connected and there may not be somebody else, so I have to keep pushing on this. You operate from a place of there will be somebody else. But if you just came out of a bad breakup, for example, and you're feeling really insecure, what can end up happening sometimes when you start overinvesting in relationships is now your ego gets in the way.

And next thing you know, you're fighting or clawing for a relationship that you never actually had any business being in the first place. And so that's where knowing yourself and where you're at in life really should help to dictate the communication style that you take on. Because we can never forget and never should forget that sex and love is addictive. That we are pair bonding mammals who are born to bond. And I always encourage people to watch the movie like the March of the Penguins, just to be like, this is how fucking addictive this thing is. Like, These people will walk, not people, penguins will walk to the coldest, shittiest part of the world, risk everything, mate with someone that they just met.

Like, biology is so, so strong. And so if you have to be aware of that and aware of that pull that exists. And if you're not strong enough in yourself at that point, be honest. And that's what therapy is for. That's what self-work is for, the work that you all have done. And so I think that it's great if you can get to that place, but acknowledge if you ain't there yet. Yeah, that's why you work on yourself. It is addictive being like, is he going to text me?

And what am I going to say back? Am I texting too much? I have tons of shit going on and I fall into that loop. So like, go do something else. Like I was sitting at home last night. I was like in this loop. And then I like texted a friend and said, what are you up to?

I walked out the door at an awesome night. And I never thought about this person again. I always say read a fucking book. I said it once. And people just like picked up on that or literally anything. Literally anything. Are you registered to vote? Just make sure before you're stressing over getting texted back.

Please for the love of God. make sure you're registered to vote. Do a 20-minute workout or literally anything. Do anything besides staring at your phone. Watch hands YouTube, write anything. Literally anything. Read your book.

I just love what you said about scarcity. It's so important. This, if you have this narrative of this is the last guy I'll ever feel like this about, it's the last guy that'll fuck me like this or make me laugh like this. It's just not, they might be somebody that you remember forever for that reason, but like this,

it's the only chance or it's the only guy or it's the only this or it's the only that. Like, just check yourself. And I think people need to consider that if that's how they're operating. And then that's when the desperation comes into play. And that's when the person on the other side can feel that radiating from you, that you're like trying to slink your claws into them. Yes. Or maybe it's time to move if that's the case, you know,

because if you live in a town where there's only three options and like one of them is ghosted you and the other one right now is the one who's paying attention to you. Exactly. The third's your cousin. And then that's when you're like, I just has to work. Yeah. have a cousin, you know? Yeah.

It's a pandemic. I mean, Ashley and I can't recommend moving to New York enough and you can't recommend moving to L.A. enough. I cannot recommend moving to L.A. enough. Yeah. So that's a thing too. You know, if you're devoted to success in an area, people would move for a career,

no questions asked. You would move for friends, no questions asked. And so I think there's something wrong with also moving for love to increase your odds. If you realize the community that you're in, there's a book called Datanomics that I love so much really talks about game theory and number theory when it comes to dating. And the writer is just a finance guy, which is a number cruncher. And so he was just in essence saying that if you find yourself getting into that desperation mode, what that could possibly be leading

to is a clue that where you are doesn't have the supply to fit your demands. I just, I really want to jump in on this. I feel like I love that you said like move because I think that some people are like, that's crazy, but you would move for a job. And if the number one thing in your life is be a wife, be a mother, have a committed relationship, maybe New York hasn't been working. out for you and you should move. We know multiple people that have moved to Denver. Three girlfriends move to Denver from New York, all got boyfriends within a month. I'm not kidding you. Like they were like so unlucky alive in New York. Well, there was stats on like the men there. I think everybody went and like try to get it on that. But like three New York girls moved to Denver.

I'm not kidding you. They, I mean, one person's broken up. But they all got boyfriends immediately. And that's why they moved. And you know, they, yeah, they liked the city. But they went because they were like, I need more volume. I need a different type of guy. It's just not working out for me in New York and I like this other city and I can do my job there and it really worked out for them. Yeah, there are different attitudes about love in different cities. I've never really lived anywhere else besides New York, except Pittsburgh, but there is an overabundance of women here and they're all killing it and they all look gorgeous and they're successful and they're amazing and they're funny. All my friends are amazing and there's a huge abundance of women like that.

I think that makes you a little more disposable sometimes to some men, to the wrong kind of man, but maybe that isn't the case in all cities. Also, I love New York. I'm happy here. But, you know, there is nothing wrong with moving for love the way you'd move for a job because lots of people move for jobs and no one thinks that's fucking weird. Thank you for teaching me about Denver. I did not know that that was a hot day. They call it. They call it Menver.

It's a whole thing. Oh, that's amazing. Because, like, yeah, if you're a gay man living in Wichita, you would move to San Francisco, right? Or you'd move to L.A. or New York if you wanted to increase your odds because you just know your community is just not there. Yeah. Although people in Wichita might be very gay. I'm actually not quite sure.

Actually. Shout out to Kansas. Well, can we, you guys get the book for more tips and tricks on dating with dominance, can we move on to some sex and communication? Let's move on. Let's do it. Yes. Okay.

Well, we asked our listeners, you know, what do you want to hear from a sex expert? And one of the overwhelming things from people in long-term relationships and brand-new relationships was I don't know how to communicate to this person what I want in bed, whether it's my partner won't go down on me or I don't want to insult them by bring it up or I want to have sex toys and I don't want to look like a crazy freak for having these kicks. So how can we be communicating better? Why is it important? Yes.

And that's my, my pet peeve quotes are definitely like, the key to a healthy relationship is communication because it's an essence like saying the key to a great painting is paint. You're like, okay, that's, did you want to get more specific? Like, where should I buy?

Like what colors? Not if it's shitty paint. Not if it's shitty paint or it's a bad canvas or like you don't have the right tones and you don't have the fucking skills. Like there's a... You don't have paint. You don't know.

Let's start there. It's like, do surgery better. It's like, I don't know how to do surgery. The key to great surgery is having a scalpel. Okay. And a great outfit. Yeah. It's having scrubs.

Cute genre scrubs. Good playlist in the ER. Great. You would do a playlist. Ashley would do a playlist. What are Beyonce's best songs about surgery? Okay. So, yeah, I think that it's,

It's definitely like we lack specificity when we have conversations around sex and relationships. It's really vague terms. And so I always challenge people. And on my show sexology, we have all these guests all the time. And I'm constantly, you know, pushing people because they'll say things like, I just want you to be more vulnerable with me. What the fuck does that mean? Like, what does that mean? Like give a concrete, hard example.

Like give the specific tool. Right. What does that mean? Well, we were having this conversation on the almost 30 podcast. And I can't remember which one was saying. I think it was Lindsay was saying that, like, you know, in her relationships, what she finds is that there is like an intimidation around talking about wellness and because, you know, she's really empowered in that area. And like, it's really hard to find a partner who is just as communicative in that way. And it's like, you know, if you're playing basketball with a three-year-old

and you're an NBA player, tone it down. Like that kid's never going to want to play with you again. And if you're like pushing them over and dunking on them and scoring all the points and blocking their shots, right? You go full LeBron on this toddler. You go full LeBron this toddler. And all men are the toddlers. So we need to dumb it down for them. It's the truth. I am LeBron. I'm just want to reiterate. All I want to do is be LeBron. I say it all the time. Either case, I think that when we say communication is key, we have to be really specific on exactly what it is that we want to say. One of my favorite quotes is great communications about, isn't it about what you say. It's what you want to accomplish.

and that takes having like an arsenal of tools, right? The way that I communicate to my partner to do something for me is very different from how I might communicate to my parents. And so that's where you have to learn a lot of language and also to like emotional intelligence is like specific language or tactics. And so psychology is really helpful in this way. And in the game of desire, the first chapter is all about these quiz. I'm obsessed with quizzes.

I fucking live for a quiz. But knowing things like what's my apology language, what's my love language, what's my big five personality types, what is my VAC quiz? And so these are ways of describing our intimate beings in concrete, like tangible ways. And if you ask me a follow-up, I can be really clear with you. And so if we're in an argument and it's not going anywhere, I can say, just so you know, my apology language is acts of restitution. And that essentially means that I'll never feel resolved. I'll never feel understood until you offer a makeup act to me. And now I'm like, oh, I get that.

And so if you think of it like that way, like communication is like getting the real clear language and specificities for yourself. So you can communicate that to somebody else. And then there you can add nuance to it. It's kind of like when you're driving and you first go somewhere, you need super specific instructions to get there successfully. And then as you get better, you can start making stops along the way.

You can turn the GPS off midway through. You can, you know, change things up, go a scenic route. But in the beginning, I feel like you have to really specifically know how to guide people to successfully communicating with you and successfully loving you. And if you don't know how to do that for yourself, it's going to be very difficult to find partners who can just guess the way there. So like maybe, and I love all of that, but maybe in the like, I want you to be more vulnerable, it sounds more like, I wish you would open up to me more about your brother or your family

or what's going on at work. Or like, because I just picture the scenario when you tell a guy you want him to be more vulnerable and he's like, I literally have nowhere to start. I don't know where to start. I don't know what that means. Like the actual concrete thing. And so I'm trying to think of it a bedroom example. I do want to just before we move on completely acknowledged something that you said, which is that everything is communication is like a one size fits one. So getting to that goal at the end is different with everybody. And I argue with Ashley differently than I would with my mother than I would with a sibling and a romantic partner because all those people are very different and respond to

different things. I think that Ashley and I can spar back and forth and have like a really good conversation and no one's mad at each other at the end of it. Whereas like with my mom, I just let her go. At the end of it, I just, I just lay down and take it. Then we get along. Cry in the bathroom. Yeah, I cry in the bathroom. Call me. Yeah, I text Ashley through it. I get in the car and call somebody. I cry. But I think that you have to know who, like, who you're up against. Who's the enemy? You know, you're going up against and then sort of work your way through it. Because somebody said, like, for example, to bring back to the bedroom, like, I want to ask my partner to go down on me more, be better at it. But I don't want to, like, insult them. And it's like,

well, how insecure is this person? And how shocked are they going to be when you say it? And are they even capable of wanting to do that stuff? So I would approach different sexual partners differently if I felt like you're not eating my pussy enough. And the point is that you really made is really great. Because like, if my goal is to have a partner who is more vulnerable overall, like, we have to start with like a specific actionable point that I think they can successfully accomplish, then it's a building block process. So you're not going to, you know, make somebody an incredible communicator in one shot. So it might just be, you know, when you come home from work, I can tell that you've got the stress every day. I know your boss is stressing you out. Can we just take 20 minutes and just vent to me?

Because I want to hear it so I can help you work through it. Or, you know, when we're cooking and sometimes you get frustrated because I give you too many instructions, can you just stop and just like let me know how you want me to say something differently so we can work together better as a team? Like the more specific and nuanced it can be. And when it comes to like sex and having your partner try or get to do things in the bedroom, also unfortunately, I mean, obviously when it comes to like going down, that should be a basic thing of like, take your head. This is the direction.

But it's acknowledging that there's probably 40 steps in between that action and them feeling comfortable doing that action. And then you have to take those steps with that person. So it's having the conversation around anatomy and pleasure and what works for you. It's having the conversation around their comfort level. it's even like getting into more erogenous zone play because if they're so genital focus in terms like penetration like slowing things down to even back massages and then adding some tongue to the back massages, flipping them over, have them do the same thing to you like using edible body

paint, using markers or food in the bedroom, which encourages more licking like the step from like wanting someone to do what you want them to do and getting them comfortable in that space that's foreign to them. It's not that linear. And I always always at that question is kind of in more extreme ways where people are like, I really want to peg my partner, but I don't think they're going to be into it. And you're like, okay, well, how did you get to that conclusion? Because you didn't just wake up one day and be like, I had a dream last night, I want to fucking peg you. You like watched five videos. You talked to a friend about it. You read a book. You saw some YouTube videos. You read a Cosmo article. Like there was so much education that you took on

to get to a place of like, I actually think I really want to try that. Or maybe you just heard it for the first time when you wanted to. But a lot of people, they haven't had the benefit of the experience that you've had to get to that place of comfortability. So like give your partner that benefit as well. Like they need time to be educated and to warm up to the idea and to feel like it's approachable for them. And so the journey is just as important as a destination when it comes to trying to get your partner to open up in the bedroom.

I'm trying to think of somebody that's like, okay, but how do I start? You know, like, is it, let's do this quiz I saw or do you like, let's, here's an article or like here's the thing, like almost put it on somebody else. like, oh, I saw this thing and in terms, and rather than, because I think it could be so intimidating for somebody to be like, okay, tonight, we're going to pour some wine and I'm going to talk about how you don't even have a pussy the right way. Like, how do you, I think it's so, you know. I'm going to fuck you in the ass with a strap off. I think it's just so intimidating. Yeah. And where do you bring it up? A great tool, right? You can watch a video or even sending. You have to

be with the person, right? Like, look at this crazy video. Someone sent me watching movies that have that already built in there. Like this guy was saying to me the way that he talked to his kid about sex, which is like not the right picture for this, but the way that he talked to his kid about sex was Gray's anatomy because so many different topics come up and that became their show. And so they just use that as a natural catalyst to like a variety of different in points. And so if you're aware of certain media that's out there that's going to create like a natural pivot to the conversation, then utilize that, right? And then always too, it's like you have to give to get. So sometimes like giving vulnerability, giving

discomfort, like giving your own fears with something, allows somebody else to feel comfortable of doing the same. It's be the change you wish to see in the world. It's a Shan original. I just came up with that on the spot. I just came up with it. It just really occurred to me.

You guys are so deep. I can't. I haven't seen that on 75 pillows last week. I think that I never really thought about it, but it can be very shocking. If you're like just stay next to someone. They're like, I want to peg you because that actually literally happened to me. This guy was like, what are your fantasies? I was like, I don't know, nothing crazy. And he was like, well, I like to get fucked in the ass with strap on. And I was

like, I think 26 or 27. I'd never heard of that before. It shocked the shit out of me. I just felt like, yeah, it was like a real jolt to the system. But then I went online and I researched it. And I watched porn about it. And then I was like, okay, this isn't crazy. Because my first thought was like, let me Google what is mentally ill with this person. That's good for you, though, because some people are going to hear that. And the first thing to do is go to their friends, kink shame that person, make fun of them, completely shut down, never talk to them again, talk about it in their podcast and move the fuck on, right? So he was wrong for how he approached it with you, but you were really, really right for the fact

that you're like, okay, let me actually look into this because a lot of people would not. But that's a fear, I think that a lot of people said, you know, I want to, it doesn't have pegging. Like, I would just like to bring a vibrator into the bed. And is he going to think that I'm this, like, crazy person? So, like, how do you tell people to, like, get over that? I think it's like, again, if you didn't, if it doesn't come across, like, can I fuck you in the ass tonight? And that came out of nowhere. So if it does, if it's more a part of the gradual

conversation, even if I wanted to bring toys into the bedroom, for example, I might like try sexting with my partner and just telling them like, oh, like I'm using my vibrator right now thinking about you or trying to even do like, you know, video conferencing sex. They can see you mastering and see how it's a part of your sex routine. I think Loub is a really great like first toy to bring into the bedroom. as people could both use it. Yeah. And so...

Entry point. It's an entry point. Exactly. And it's becoming comfortable with bringing in another item that enhances things for everybody. The magic wand, I honestly have all these sex toys

around me right now too, which is so fucking weird. But I said Loub and I could literally have like this K-wine. It's with an arms reaction. She just saw it. That's what we're. She was like,

Loub. It's right there. So it's like introducing the idea of bringing toys as a thing that you do to give more pleasure. versus a way to subsidize because one person's not capable of giving pleasure. I think those are your entry points.

I think that is the most important takeaway of even, you know, being the change you see in the world, the Shan original. Like opening it up of like how can we make this more pleasurable together, even if your end goal is something that's just pleasurable to you, let's say, in your body. Like maybe it's even asking first, is there anything I can do?

Is there any fantasies you have or that, I don't know. Like, can I blow you better? I don't know. Like just almost putting it on them so you have an entry point to discuss it. Like I think the worst thing that we can do is make our partner feel inadequate. So any way around that and like this is pleasure for both of us or how can I please you more. And now let me tell you how to please me more.

I mean, I also just think like people are so lucky to have all this content that you can literally say I was listening to this podcast today and I heard this thing and I was kind of intrigued by it. Like we had another, Dr. Emily Morris brought up this oral sex method where the guy lays perpendicular and kind of like his tongue goes like sideways. And I haven't had the opportunity to like force anybody to do that on me. But like, after we're down recording. It's different than I thought. Yeah, I have later tonight hopefully. I have been thinking about it of like how easy it would be to be like, oh, I was

listening to this thing. And like this sex expert was talking about this method of oral sex. And would you be interested in giving it a try? Why not? Yeah, blame on somebody else. 100%. I think that I love that you said that the worst thing you can do is make your partner feel inadequate.

I think it's a lot of people's fears. You're going to make a man feel totally inadequate. Because you wouldn't want to feel like that. I wouldn't want to feel like that. And I wouldn't want anything framed like I'm not enjoying myself. I would want something framed as I am enjoying myself. And I want to do other stuff that we're going to enjoy too, because that would be fun too.

Not like I'm not having orgasms with you. You know, like let's do more cool shit, you know? I love that more cool shit. And I love asking the partner to put on them too. Like, hey, what are your fantasies? What can I be doing better for you? Can I suck your dick more? Whatever.

Yeah. And then a lot of people aren't prepared to answer those things either. I think also too, like kind of giving grace and space for these are really foreign conversations. The reason why you get asked these things all of the time is because they're not in the norm. And people are still, again, we don't have scaffolding education to learn how to do it. And everyone's kind of trial and error figuring it out. And a lot of times it's a lot of error. And that's a kind of crazy thing too.

I always find that people broach the conversation around like, how to talk about things in the bedroom when something that you don't like comes up. And if you just naturally talked about sex a lot in your relationship, even when you loved something or when it was really great last night, it would actually feel a whole lot less awkward to introduce new things or talk about things that you want to see less of. But because we don't talk about sex really ever, and the only time that we do want to talk about is when we're like,

that fucking sucks, that's what makes the conversation awkward. Well, and just that, like, we've talked about some multiple episodes of just like the first thing you can do to start speaking the language is like, send that text the day after a hot sexual encounter. I loved when you did this thing. Like now you're sexting, you're talking about sex. Like I, we always say like start it early. So you have the tools later and you aren't in a place where your relationship is stagnant and you didn't develop the tools early on. Yes. I think, you know, the sex we had last night was so great. Or, you know, I always tell people to hit them with the like, I'm at work and I just keep, I keep thinking about you bending me over this conference table.

You know, just, it doesn't, you don't have to be out here being like, my pussy's so wet for your hard cock. Like, you can be a little bit, which is a classic. It's not that original. But yeah, I think some women, I love this quote. This one was like, I want to spice up with my man. I'm not trying to peg him. And I was like, okay, because there is a huge, like, range in between stale sex and pegging. And so I think a casual, like, I'm just thinking about you being inside of me while I'm at work.

it's just an easy ease into it, you know. And then eventually you could get to pegging. Right, but it's really difficult to go from we've never talked before to like, can I talk about like putting it in your ass for the first time? And there's something so much more natural about it being extension of the conversations that you already have. And that's even why I advocate for people to in relationships. Like start being clear about your boundaries really early on.

Like if you make it a part of the natural conversation, like I don't like that or I don't do that. Here's how I do things because what's so awkward is like after months of pretending that everything is great with you and that you love every food, having to start to broach like, oh, like, how do I let them know that I'm actually an asshole in my own special unique way? So I find that the sooner that you could start making those conversations just a part of the groove and the flow of how the two of you connect, then the easier it is as the issues will get bigger and more mounting. And as your requests for sex and your need start to change a lot as well too. And even as you get older, obviously pain comes into play more or you might have different considerations. So it's so much simpler to just have that as a continuation of the conversations you've

already started from the very beginning. Yeah. I don't have any boundaries. That's the that's the boundaries I want to communicate. Just do anything to me. My body is your trash can. No, I'm not a big butt person. Do you remember when Lady Gaga and Arkell?

had that song together about that. Yeah, do what you want with my body. Terrible. It's so weird. Terrible. Such a weird choice for R. Kelly. Who do you think about this? It was a clue.

I don't want anything in my butt. I don't like it. I think the guys want to like rim it with their finger. I don't want it. I don't want you to do it. But I'm like Jewish, so I'll say anything. But something that's been hard for me to like ask of people.

I just want to watch guys masturbate. I love it. I think it's so fun. I think it's so hot. It's so hot. I think why aren't we all doing this? but it is hard. It is hard to me to be like, no, you stay over there.

You know what you can do? What I do with my partner a lot is that, like, we'll do like teamwork oral sex where I'm like giving head and he's giving himself the hand job. And then like I'll just back up. Because you know, you're doing this usually. Yeah. But if you have your partner. He's got the hand.

Yeah, he's doing the hand. I'm doing the mouth. And then I'll just back up. And then I'll start DJing while he's just doing himself. And he gets a hint that like. I love that. That is so, by the way, if you guys aren't familiar with musical terms, she means masturbating on herself.

Yes. Let's do the hands, guys. She's picturing. She's not on the turntables. I would be on the turntables. That's Beyonce's playlist for my next trick. I love that. That's so hot. That is so sexy that you're like blowing your partner and then you start masturbating.

Like, I'm going to masturbate to that later. And they finish the job. Yeah, and you don't have to finish the job. You don't. there's something, I don't know, I'm so with you on that, Raina. Like, I love to see, I love seeing, like, a person who I'm attracted to masturbate. Yes. It's not an invitation.

It's not the homeless person I walk by and masturbating. It's not the person listening to this being like, yeah, this is what she's into. It's not you. Yeah, it's not you. We're all set. Well, we wanted to wrap up with monogamy and tell, you tell us, you're married, but from what I know, are you guys open or are you are willing to be? So tell us about that.

And then you have a quiz that people can figure out if they actually prefer monogamy or not. We just want to get into this because we've always kind of wanted to tackle this like, is monogamy dead question on this podcast and haven't really quite yet. Yeah. People are like my sex level is stale. And it's like, well, fuck someone else. Are you monogamous? What's your commitment style?

I have always been monogamous. I can't imagine a scenario where I would be non-monogamous. but I think both of us are, we're open to other people's ideas and anybody, there's no right or wrong way to have a relationship. So anything that challenges, the traditional notions of what love has to look like, we're open to all of it.

But personally, no, I've never had a non-monogous relationship. Everybody I've ever been with fully, well, you know, I was being monogamous, you know, they weren't. But, yeah, so that's, yeah. I want to take the quiz because I feel like I am monogamous, but I don't know that I just, I never say never. So I can't understand what it's like to be in a relationship for five, 10 years because I haven't done it. So I feel like I am.

I'm going to take the quiz. You can tell us about it. But at this moment, I feel like that's what I want. But I could be wrong. And that's a big part of what I, you know, my mantra of like communication has to be specific. It can't be vague. And I love what you just said too, like the more options that they are, the better. And so we should really applaud any new language to define sex or connections or orientation

or commitment as possible so that people lie to themselves less or try to force themselves in boxes they just simply don't fit into less. And so the enemy of monogamy is infidelity. The enemy of monogamy is not consensual non-monogamy. Consensual non-monogamy is a relief, I think, to monogamy, and it actually helps to uphold the sanctity of monogamy because people know they have another choice. I think for our parents' generation, there was just like this one-size-fits-all, and we saw how that worked out in the divorce. divorce rates. And we saw how that worked out in terms of people finding like really viable, culpable partnerships that they were capable of being successful in. And so I think that the more

commitment styles that we have, the more words and languages that we can use, the better we can communicate to our partners. Here's what works best for me. And then either one negotiate or two, dissolve if we realize that we have very different ways of expressing love and showing up in commitments. So me, myself and my husband began as, you know, fuck buddies. And then we moved to, friends of benefits. And essentially what happened is that we were just enjoying the connection that we had so much as friends of benefits. We had great sex and we loved being around each other. We ended up moving in together just because it was like a convenient thing and I loved living with him. He's like the best roommate ever. And so at that point, we realized we had to come up with a title.

And I think that's actually when relationships work out nicely. Rather than trying to move towards a title, you always assess where you're at right now and think of the word that best fits the description. So we were like, okay, what we share right now is we can rely on each other. I'm there for you. You're here for me. You're my plus one when I want to go places, but I still like dating and I still like flirting. And I love fucking you, but I like the option if I felt compelled to. Also, too, I want the choice. Like, I feel, have felt really affirmed this relationship by the choice of my body, I do what I want. And also, too, I talk about this for a living. And so there's an element of like seductiveness that my career, you know, has to make it thrive and makes it fun

for me too. And sort of similarly, my partner, you know, really was excited about our friends and benefits relationship just because of the fact that their previous relationships was just so much like coveting and jealousy and et cetera. So open relationship just like that's the term for us and we really loved that term and we like lived in that for a while. But what was the crux of our open relationship was choice, not necessarily action. So it was the option to do it. So I think as time has gone on, we have not dated outside of our marriage yet. And so I think people get, because language is important. So if I say I'm in an open marriage and then I also tell you I've never engaged with somebody, you're like, you fucking liar. So we use the term right now called

free relationship, which in essence means that we give ourselves space to like go between different commitment style. So right now, maybe we're monogamous. Maybe in three months we're monogamish because he's going to strip clubs a lot because they open back up or he's flirting online. He's DMing people. I don't know what he's doing. But like maybe in, you know, six months I meet someone that I think is really interesting or six years and I want to engage with that person. And then open is a title we can switch to. So free just essentially means that we reserve the right to change our commitment style and to change our mind. And that should not be a make or break in our relationship because we're both consenting to that.

Mm-hmm. And I'm going to do a whole episode on this. I'm just like so, you know, I'm so enthralled by it and it's not how I have ever operated. So it's intriguing to listen to. I want to ask your opinion about rules and boundaries because I think that that's where like all the gray area comes. Do I get to have sleepover? Is it okay if I'm DMing with somebody?

Is it somebody that we know? Do I have to come home and tell my partner I did that? And yes, obviously we can talk about this for three hours. But at least maybe how did you come up with? your boundaries for it. I mean, this is a great thing. Like, you probably notice in the kink community, right? Like, the kink community, like, anybody who's not vanilla, right? And I consider consensual non-monotomy a part of the non-vanilla. And I mean non-vanilla as in like, it's not what you see in TVs and movies. Tradition. There we go, bitch, right? Better word.

No one who feels judged here. I know. I was like, owls. She's like, actually, you're vanilla. The basic bitches, you know. I identify with that. It's fine. Sometimes what ends up happening when we are like heterosexual and, monogamous, is that there is like all these conversations that we don't have because we assume that we all have the same information because so much dialogue is passed on. So many examples are portrayed of that. And then through that, you lose the individuality and the relationship. And so someone to something to be really cool about the kink community. They said in the kink community and specificity, like everything is a no until you get a yes. And in the vanilla community,

which I'm also a part of, is everything is a yes until you get a no. You keep pushing your partners until they're like, this makes me uncomfortable. So I think that what happens a lot of times in monogamy is the same thing of like, okay, there's an understanding, you know, that I can't have sex with other people. But because we don't bake into our idea of our commitment, like a lot of conversation, a lot of questions, a lot of clarity, because we're on this assumed label, I keep testing you until I get a no. I sign to someone's DMs. I make certain flirty comments, It's like, as opposed to sitting down and being like, I don't feel comfortable with this. I do feel comfortable with that.

I don't like it when this happens. If you do go out with somebody, I want to don't ask, don't tell, or I want to know everything. And so in non-monogamy, like there's classes. And so I have a really great presentation. I'll share with you guys that breaks down all of the various terms in polyamory, like the ways that you can structure your relationship, language to describe. Even like that, don't ask, don't tell is like a form of consensual non-monogamy. So I think that that is actually a strength of it because there's less assumptions.

Because by virtue of the fact that it is more gray, there has to be more conversation to bring clarity. Yeah. And I mean, there's still a large majority, I guess, of people that want or think that they want monogamy. Yeah. So I have two monogamous. Yeah, there's traditional monogamy and there's modern monogamy. And so traditional monogamy is probably more of what your grandparents did. And many people still want traditional monogamy, which is one person. person for life. And then modern monogamy, which Esther Perel really talks about, is one person at a time. And so a modern monogamous believes in divorce. A modern monogamous believes in like serial dating, whereas in a traditional monogamist is like their goal is to find their singular person and be with that person and commit for life. And even that as a difference of nuance is important to

distinguish because that just tells you what somebody's stake is in the relationship and how they're going to operate should you come into conflict. But there's like nine different, a result. you can get. And it's my most popular quiz that I've created. And even though, because at the end of the day, keep in mind, like, you know, like, y'all, I'm a freaky bitch. I talk about sex. And also, too, like, I promote consensual non-monogamy. So you would think that if anybody's, you know, results are going to mirror sort of that more open idea that, like, everyone fears that people in L.A. all think about. But even that regardless, 70% of the respondents on my quizzes wanted traditional or modern monogamy. Modern monogamy being, you know, drastically ahead of traditional,

but traditional still being in like second or third place, I believe. So that to say, I think a lot of people still do want that. It's very natural to want that as a desire. And so whenever people get really scared of non-monogamy or get really like aggressive towards me because I'm not mirroring that relationship style, I'm like, you need more people like me. Like I'm helping you, you know, I'm getting rid of all the assholes who could never stay in a relationship that long. And I'm giving them other options so that they could be honest and be successful in a relationship style that they're actually equipped for. So I think if you're a monogamous do not feel like, oh, there's no one left and everyone's

like going to hell and everyone wants multiple partners. A lot of people still just want to be with one person to the rest of their life. And this might be too personal. Feel free not to answer it. But did you guys have any boundaries around you being pregnant? Like was it like while I'm pregnant we're monogamous or like you know post while we're like raising an infant? I'm just wondering because I feel like people are like, wait a minute. Isn't she pregnant? You know what?

How does that look? I think my partner might get mad at me for saying this. But like I was saying like early on in our connection because my breasts got really big when I got pregnant. And I wanted to show them off. I wanted to show somebody. I heard that. Those two days around my period, I'm like, can someone look at these? Yes. They looked amazing. And also too, like, because I'm his pregnant wife. And so, like, there was still, like, a non-sexualization there with the breast. But I'm like, the world didn't know I was pregnant yet. And so if I would have just sexed somebody, they would have been like your breasts look incredible. This would have been a different reaction. Like, I have asked him. I got doubledy boobs. Okay. I wanted to get titty butts all over the place.

All first trimester. It's all I wanted to do. Because it's my first time being able to push them together and actually create something of substance. So I can't recommend it enough when you're blowing somebody. And like, I want to. as you go down, you just like rub your tits on their dick a little bit. I mean, I've double D boobs. I got to use these things. Yes, you have to. And that's the thing is like mine. I have a limited time. Like it's going to run out.

The sale's going to end soon. So that's why I think I'd ask that. And he was like, that's kind of weird. And I was like, I respect that. So I think it's still still an evolving conversation. If he came to me, like we had that discussion. I'm in third trimester now. And like we haven't had sex in a long time.

And I feel like we both don't really enjoy it that much because it's just, it's very slow. like even for me, it's like turn over now at night. Yeah. It's like a three minute process. So if he came to, I was like, are you bothered by like, you know, how much things have dropped off? And then he was just like, not really. We're so busy right now.

But if he came to me and said like this kind of bothering me and, you know, I have met somebody or whatever, I'd be open to the dialogue. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So just you're so evolved. I know. I know. I mean, I'll be open to.

I never know. It's the thing. It's like I don't know how I'm going to react. And I reserve the right to always, you know, same with him. He, I could say to him. him like, can I text somebody? And he's a very open person, very non-jalous. And he can think about it and be like, I don't know why, but that's weird. And I can be like, yeah, you're right. And that's okay. I love that too. And you can always change your mind. Like you can, you can change your mind from

week to week. Like it's your relationship. It's supposed to evolve and change. And this isn't like a, but you said this six months ago. It's like, I changed my mind. I don't know what to tell you. This is how I feel now. You know, we're always changing. And that's the point. No one's going to be like, you're a flip-flopper. Yeah. I got new information, bitch. Okay? I met someone else.

Yeah. You're a hypocrite. No, I just am evolving. Exactly. Well, you feel like this good? Yeah. Thanks so much for doing this. We know you're,

we don't have you for hours and hours. We would love to keep you for hours. I would love to be here for hours. Maybe one day when we're in the same city, this can be a thing. You know, I don't want to get too aggressive and forward with you. Like, I'm happy to follow this intimate relationship. Okay, good, fine.

And we know that everybody is going to be like dying to find all of your things. So where can people find the quizzes where they can find your show, your books, tell everybody everything to find you. I'm going to say one wish because I think that people just, you know, that you're very busy. And my one wish is to go to Quibi and to watch sexology. There's over 100 episodes there right now that you can watch. Everything that we've discussed today,

there is going to be an episode on. We've discovered like everything from double penetration to like where you should pick the right first date for you based on your personality type to commitment styles to non-monogamy to also people who are asexual. So there's a lot of topics there. And that probably is my greatest arsenal of information that can provide in bite-size formats. And Quibi, you can actually get like a two-week free trial. And so you can binge all of them for free. And if you want to stay on for more episodes because we make an episode every week. It's like $4.99 per month. So that's my one wish. I really love Quippy guys too. Like I did a whole, yeah, it's get

on it. It's so fun. So we can't recommend that enough too. Well, tell people what your website is and your Instagram because I had fun on them and other people will want to also. Yes, I'm just Shan Booty, Booty with a D, which is a playoff my last name, not my anatomy. I got the breast, not the ass for pregnancy. So I'm to be honest. All right.

Shan, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Raina. Thanks, Sally Ena. Thank you. All right, guys. We'll stick around and we are going to be right back with your sex. And we're back. Okay.

All right. So I'm very excited about this. I feel very passionate about sexting. It's important. It is important. And I have advice about when and where and like how to escalate it. But in line with the theme of Shan's episode, we asked you guys what your go-to sex were to your partner or a new partner.

Okay. To be clear, we asked what's your like first go-to sex when you're trying to get someone into sex stain. Right. And some of you, this can't be your first go-to sex. I know some of you probably just said your favorite sex. But like if some of you were sending this straight out of the gate, I mean, you know, respect. But so I was writing these down this morning. A few, just a few quick thoughts. First of all, I was just writing your guys as sex down. And I was getting so turned on. Like, I felt a little uncomfortable by how horny I felt doing this in general. And then yes, we asked for like initial sex. And some of these were so wild. Okay, let me just read you a couple of

your initial warm. up sex just to get someone into it. I want you to come inside of me. I want your babies. Just a picture of my wet fingers after I come on them. I want your hands around my throat while you pound me. What? It's simple

but it sets the tone she says. It's simple but it sets the tone. I want you to joke me. Let me set the tone. I want you to gag me and then jerk off in my mouth. Want to rearrange my guts and finally when I see you, I want to

want you to throw me against a wall while I suck your cock till you come in my face. Okay. So all of these are great. They just, I wouldn't open with them. I would make sure you're in a really safe space with someone that you're dating and that you're having. So in general, my feeling about sexy pictures and sex is that you want to sort of build. First of all, I feel like if you haven't had sex to the person, I'm not sending any of this

stuff. I think you got to make a guy like chase you a little bit. And I say that from experience. I say that from sending this stuff a little too soon. And I think that like the graphic knicks, graphicness, graphic nick, graphic nature. I think we can escalate how graphic the stuff is. So I think we start with like stuff with some clothing on.

Right. And suggestive photos and suggestive sex and then we build. And it's all about like wanting to like, you know, like make them work a little more for it. And so you're constantly surprising them. And why would you blow your load for sex out of the gate? Like if you're like, come over and choke me and gag me and jerk off on my mouth and throw me against the wall.

I'm going to suck your dick and then I want you should come all over my face. Like, what do you have to build up to? You can't backtrack. You can't just be like thinking about you this morning. You can't go back. And they're like,

I know, bitch, I just came on your face last night. So don't come out of the gates. I would just like anything, I would make them work for it a little bit and build towards it. And then you're constantly shocking

though with a filthy little slut you are. A ton of stuff about, I had a dream about you last night. So I just like woke up from a really sexy dream. A ton of people saying, I'm thinking about blank thing that you did to me last night. That is the most person.

I think you suggested that. I just can't, even just like, I can't stop thinking about last night. Right. Even just like tame like in your language of like I can't stop thinking about how hot last night is. That's hot is an easy word. It's an easy starter word. Like I think that was probably, that's probably my usual go to. Like I can't stop thinking about how hot last night was or you can escalate that with like how hard I came.

Things like that. But like the next day, I just think like across the board get in that habit early. Yes. And have to remember. that like not everybody is comfortable doing this stuff and not all guys are going to like know how to respond to like my pussy's so wet and I just want your come inside it.

Like I think that you can also train them to build up to it. Like I dated somebody who refused to sex with me. You know, some people just suck. But I think that you can build towards it and don't expect everybody to just initially pop off and have crazy stuff to say back to you. And then one, I'll just start off. This is actually something that is not a hot take.

But I think, I think, I was talking to with Guy Ratt. guy friend about this. I think it was Andrew Colin of like, what's it, Andrew? I don't know. Anyway, just that if a guy asks you what you're doing or like always, not always, but like, if it makes sense to say I just got out of shower. Like, I never really thought about this. I'm sure I've said it, not meaning to, but I guess I never looked at it from a guy's standpoint. Like, they always think of you naked and it's not necessarily a sex. And that's not

going to turn anybody off at all. Like, I would tell you I just got a shower. It has a different connotation. That's what I'm saying. I'd be like, this is a great. great easy way, even before you have sex. Like after like one day to the guy's like, so where are you up to like just got out of the shower, like hit him with that. And he doesn't have to escalate from there. It can just simply be, I'm, the tone is I'm naked and wet. Yeah. Perfect. Yep. I don't know if I can look you in the face while we do these. Okay. Don't worry about the other direction. Okay. I was just like, put my hood up. And so I'm going to run through a few.

I'm laying in bed thinking of you. I just made myself come so hard thinking about you. picture of me in a cleavid shirt saying love my hair today, don't you? Which is the same as that socks thing we suggested. Anything that just, you know, is a silly thing that suggests new today. Ask picks usually do the job. Spent some extra time with my showerhead thinking about you this morning. I want all of you in me now.

I like sending a pick of laundry laid out on the bed and saying, is my date outfit tonight okay for where we're going? We've a friend that did that. And I was so impressed by her. That's really sexy. I'm so wet. you aren't here. Help me get through this before I fuck someone else. Okay. Maybe don't start with cheating. I don't approve that one.

Wish you were here accompanied by a pick of me in bed, white tank top, no bra, small panties. I love that she laid out the outfit. In your mind, what am I wearing right now? Let them, you know, sort of lead the conversation. I like that. I'm feeling dehydrated and need you to give me your fluids. I was diagnosed with low vitamin D today and really need your help. Just send a photo of my panties on the floor. Literally has never failed. I love. that never would have thought of that. I mean, it's got to look right. It can't be like a pair of your dirty underwear with like a cream cheese in the crotch just balled up in a floor. It looks like you just took your thong and just like dragged it through a vat of cream cheese.

Sick. Yeah, so maybe like clean panties. Clean panties. Um, hanky-pankies are my favorite ones to do it with. You just sort of lay them out and they're lazy. I just feel like, is there context here? Because I just feel like a guy would be like, what's that? Like, what would you say? I would say guess what I'm doing. Just took my panties off. Okay. Anything like that. Give them a little bit of context because I feel like a guy would be like, what is that?

I would say guess what I'm doing right now. And for my last one, it made me laugh. What are you wearing Jake from State Farm? Cackies. Okay. I'm going to come out hot with, I want you to park that big Mac truck right in this little garage. Any lyric from Woff. Just got new sheets.

Want to come over and ruin them. Okay. I'm voting for Biden. And if that doesn't make you hard, then keep you. you're calm. I don't want it in my mouth. Well, okay. Don't start with that. Aggressive. Let's play a, this is cute. Let's play a game. Am I wearing panties today or not? Correct answer gets a prize. I'm naked in bed with pizza. Guess what toppings I got. Want to come over and check out my ceiling? Like just, like, lay in bed, I guess. He's just laying on his back and

getting fucked. Okay. Look at the ceiling. Okay. I just feel like the fact that I had to ask, like, guys aren't going to get that one. Okay. No, I like that you spelled that out. Okay. Man are too stupid for that one. Okay. A topless pick that says my shoulders were hot. That's funny. My titties were hot. I'm getting a manicure. What color do you like wrapped around your dick? I love it.

Okay. That's a boyfriend text to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if he's, if he likes foot jobs, just do it with a pedicure. Okay. My lower body, Undy's legs pick with my cat and it says this pussy wants attention. That's pretty strong. I'm touching myself and can't help but think how good you fucked me last night.

I had the hottest dream about you last night and now I wish it was real. this girl writes nothing, I just send them porn. Okay. Here's just a link to some porn. No context. Okay. The things I do to you if you were here, I like that one. It's just simple.

It does the trick. This was strong. Again, wouldn't recommend for a first text, but if you're down the road with somebody, come lick my neck, my back, my pussy, and my crack. If they don't know that song reference, they're probably the right age. Probably the right age for me.

I'm going to suck your dick like I hate you. Rada. You know you're going to use that one. I like to say I want to suck the cum out of your cough. That's right. That's right. Again, not a first sex thing. Here's this one, anal question mark. Okay.

You up, always strong, because we know of it as like a sex. So, I mean, I used to hit guys with you up at like 3 p.m. And see what happened. And then the last one, send me money. I just came. You know what makes me come? Venmo. Money.

Do you know any money? Do you need money? You don't need money. But I think this is just. like a great way to spice up any relationship, let somebody know that you're thinking about them. I love to hit them with this during the workday or maybe while they're in church with their parents.

100%. Or they're like sitting next to you at like Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Anything to make them uncomfortable and also horny. Yeah. But I love this. It's a great way to spice up your relationship. Yes. And thank you guys for submitting your sex to us. And we hope you enjoyed this episode. You guys know where to find us. Girls Got to Eat Podcast.com.

Girls Got to Eat Podcasts. Instagram, Ash Hess, and reynid. com, Goddegraeat eat on Twitter and YouTube.com slash Girls Gotta Eat. Thanks, guys. Have a good week. Bye.