Girls Gotta Eat - F*ck the Fairytale, Find What's Real with Damona Hoffman

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Are the stories you're telling yourself hurting your love life? We are so excited to have dating coach and author Damona Hoffman tell us why we should say F*CK THE FAIRYTALE and find what's real. We talk about why romanticizing pop culture fantasies, chemistry, and soulmates could be hindering you, and how to reframe the stories we tell ourselves. We discuss the four dating myths, how long a first date should last, breaking outdated "rules", opening yourself up to what's unfamiliar, and more. Before Damona joins us, we're talking about the "elite half" of certain zodiac signs, sharing food on dates and what your style says about you, and a friendship red flag. Enjoy! Follow Damona on instagram @damonahoffman, listen to her podcast Dates and Mates, read her book F the Fairy Tale, and check out her website damonahoffman.com. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Thank you to our partners this week: AG1: Get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free travel packs with your first purchase at drinkAG1.com/gge. Skims: Shop the Skims T-Shirt Shop at skims.com. Prose: Get 50% off your first subscription order and a free consultation at prose.com/gge. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're all playing these scripts out in our head all of the time. And I think dating really gets interesting when you're willing to maybe flip the perspective of maybe you're not the protagonist. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. Happy almost birthday.

It's my birthday episode. Tomorrow's my birthday. And it is cancer season and I haven't gotten to say it yet. I was going to remind you that you haven't said it. I was actually going to remind you this year. So we took last week off. We missed you guys. We hope you missed us.

Hope you had a great Fourth of July weekend. But the week before that was technically cancer season and we just recorded it in advance. We recorded when it wasn't because I will feel it. Like, you know what I mean? Like when we recorded the episode of the 24th, I wasn't in it yet. Okay. What does it start? The 25th?

So it started like first day of summer vibes. But we're in it. The most emotional season, the wettest season. Get wet and cry. Everybody. Well, you made me laugh so hard because you were like June cancers. Because I've been thinking my whole life, I met you and I was like, she's my first cancer. Like I don't have any cancer friends.

Then my friends are cancer friends. But actually, Jeremy is a cancer. Jackie, my dad, my stepdad. Like half of the people I know are June cancer. June cancers. You all get ignored a little bit. So this is all in good fun, but they are not the elite. And our friend, but she was telling me that she's hooking up with this guy.

and she was like, he's my first, like, cancer guy. I don't have a lot of experience with them. And I was like, same. Who does? But I'm like, my mom and my sister-in-law, you know, like my dad and my brother are both cancers. So, like, the two most important men in my life are cancers, but I have never had a relationship to speak up.

I'm sure I fucked a few. But then I said, when's his birthday? Because I always like to see, you know, if we have a similar birthday around each other. And she said June something. I was like, oh, a June cancer. A June cancer. And like, this. I've no basis for this, but it's just me wanting to be elite.

Like, I don't resonate with them. You know, like, if someone's like, I'm a cancer, I'm like, oh, my God, me too. When's your birthday? And I expect them to say, like, July 7th, or July 10th. They're like, July 15th, or July 19th, you know, and I'm just saying my family's birthdays. And then they're like, June 26th. I'm like, we're not the same. I just, I don't even register them, but it's like, I don't register May Gemini's either.

That's the same energy. I'm just like June 1st, January. When people are like, May 25th, baby, Gemini. I'm like, what? The May Gemini? No, June's are for Gemini's. Mays are for tourists. Tourist women we love.

But it's just funny. And again, no shade. People are going to get all fired up. They get so fired up about astrology. Welcome to our comedy show. It does kind of suck to be the end of the month of the astrology thing. Unless you're a Scorpio and then all like, what, 30 days of that, pretty badass. Except for the Scorpio.

Because a November Scorpio, weird. You want to be in October Scorloor? You're trying to be in October Scorpio. That is so, this is funny to talk about. And it would be so weird to be a December Capricorn? What even is that? No. Sagittarius, baby, no?

Yes. Okay. I've fucked a lot of vegetarians. January Capricorns. Like, I think in the hierarchy people I've slept with, Sagittarius is. But Sagittarii. Sagittarii. What percentage of people that you've slept with do you think you do not know their

birthday? The majority? 80%. 90% all. Several dozens for me. I know one birthday is mine. What an honor. I know one birthday is my boyfriends.

My partner now, what is it again? I'm kidding. No, I'll always remember his birthday because it's the same as Kim Kardashian. But his birthday and then my more serious ex and then like my other more serious ex who I started dating college and dated for years. Like I can rattle off those three and then pass that. That's it.

Well, I don't know. Why would I keep track? I'm the same. I have no idea. And then randomly a guy from high school. I don't know. Like, my body count is large, and I'm not going to be held to the standards that I kept to myself when I was 19, 20.

I don't care what your birthday was. Birthdays? I didn't remember their last name. Yeah. Like, we don't have space in our brain for this. No. I barely had space in my whole journal for it. I can barely remember my friend's birthdays.

Since I'm not off Facebook, it's a real problem. Yesterday, the amount of people that were like, oh, my God, I forgot. Happy belated. I was like, I didn't even, do you know, people texted me? I'm sorry, I texted you late. And I was like, I didn't text you at all. I know. Not even once.

I mean, Facebook used to be, like, you'd never miss a birthday, and then you'd be on people's timeline, on their wall. That's what used to call it. And it was just a different time. Like, the concept of forgetting birthdays in the Facebook era was non-existent. And now it's, like, all the time. And so I don't get upset when people miss mine or they forget mine or they're a couple days late. And then I'm beating myself up when I'm forgetting birthdays. Like, we've talked to this before.

I've been putting them in like my Google calendar with like annual reminders. You put in the contacts. I start putting the contacts. But that doesn't give you a notification. It does on mine. It syncs. my Google calendar. Oh, it seems with the calendar. Oh, well, then that's Apple. They got it all figured out. Anyway, it really, Apple and Google working together. It's like, you'd love to see it.

I love a monopoly. That's not, that's not it. Okay, let's talk about our partner. All right. Thank you to Pros. Get 50% off your first subscription order and a free consultation at pros.com slash GGE. Yes, and thanks to AG1. Get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 plus five free travel packs with your first purchase at drinkag1.com slash gge and skims shop the skims t-shirt shop at skims.com. So we're doing to be fun for your birthday. Do you want to talk about that? Yes. We're doing a big sale. This is just something I wanted to do to treat you guys for my birthday. And then what you can get for me is get yourself. The vibes only Ashley Max at 41% off. It's a huge discount on a

giant toy. Deepest discount we've ever done. Biggest discount. Biggest discount. biggest toy, biggest orgasm. So this is, again, this is the Ashley Max and it's like truly our most stunning toy. And I was like, let's do a one day sale for my birthday at 41% off and one day only and may sell out. You know, quantities may be limited. We'll see how it goes. And so, you know, midnight to midnight when I'm turning 41, you guys can get 41% off vibes only.com code big B day. Get your big toy, your big wand. And we'll talk about this a little bit. I mean, it is our most powerful vibrator.

It's the best looking big wand on the market. We have the rose gold accent. We have the snatched shape. It's so soft. And it just gives you these deep powerful vibrations for truly like the most intense orgasm and kind of has that rumbling vibe to it. Like you just couldn't get that in like a lighter vibrator. And it's all personal preference.

But if you really are like, I want like a really deep. full body orgasm. Like this really will do the trick. And I have been loving getting messages from people who are using this with their partner. We have a lot of toys that we recommend to use as partners. But this is a really creative partner toy because it's so long and you can use it on different erogenous zones and put it on like your breasts and your thighs. And you can like tease around your body with it.

And it is big enough to like grip and sort of just like swing around the body. I love it. This is high level kinky couples right here. And your partner needs to have little to no precision. to hit you with this. You know, like, if they're just really, like, they're going to be fine. Like a little reach around. We've been hearing about, and, you know, I've tried it out too.

I'm not going to lie. Using this in Doggy. And, you know, he can be hitting it from the back and reach around and it can hit you in the clit. I mean, or he could be giving you a little neck massage. I mean, whatever you want. Well, what's really hard for me is when I'm doing doggy and somebody's trying to like rub your clit at the same time.

And I'm like, you're fucking up the rhythm. The guy's trying to keep his rhythm. And he's trying to do something for you. which is really sweet, and I love that. But this really allows you to reach around somebody's whole body and apply vibrations to the whole clitoral area while you're fucking. Yes. Really fun. If you're having crazy sex, which if you're using the Ashley Max during sex, you are having some crazy sex, you got a little injury,

you got some tight muscles, use it to massage it out. That with a little lube on it, it's a massager. Yes. So get on the site. It's vibes only.com. It's such a great gift for yourself or somebody else. Packaging is stunning. It's high end.

You can pair it with our juiced up water-based lube. We have two suck and blow gels available for you guys right now if you want to just enhance your oral experiences. So we have for summer juicy peach and lemonade. They are flying. They are my favorite summer flavors we've ever done. So really just have a night with your partner or with your, listen to yourself. Yes. If you're shopping on July 9th for my birthday, you want to hit that sale. I think get the Ashley Max at 41% off and then throw in that lemonade suck and blow gel and have yourself a time and all the other things. You know, treat yourself handcuffs, whatever you want to do. But yeah, that's my gift to you.

Vivesonly.com. And, you know, it's so funny, you took this in a different direction. I was like, we're doing special for your birthday. I met your birthday party. I was like, vibrators. We're all masturbating. If you guys don't have an orgasm in my birthday, you're dead to me. No.

You just got so excited. So I was like, let her roll. Let her fly. Look at her go. So we're recording this before we, you know, have a celebration, have the party. But yeah, I am going to do a birthday party at my house. I want to have the in-home habachi. Nailed it.

She's been saying hi-bachi. you guys like in public around me. I have said hi-bachi my whole life. And I kind of have a, I say hi-bachi like it's two words. So here's what I think happened. You didn't grow up around a ton of them? I grew up around one. You did?

And it was high dash botchy. No. Big on the sign. Dover, Delaware, didn't grow up near Benihana. The first time I went to Benny Hanna with our family in Florida, I was like, this is the best experience of my life. I know. I spent every birth.

say at the show gun in Pittsburgh. I just love it. I love that experience. And so that is what I want to do. So I'll talk about it more after the fact, because again, we haven't experienced it yet. But there's different companies that come out. And I've heard they'll like squirt socking into your mouth with a water gun. They do like the volcano and throw the shrimp. And so I'm so excited. And I'm really excited. My boyfriend is going to come in town for my birthday for the birthday weekend. And I went there last weekend. I was in Boston with him and we had a great time. And then we are going to be together five of six weekends. Holy shit. I am so excited. So like I went through last weekend. Then we will have just been here for my birthday. And then this coming weekend, as you guys listen to this,

we have his best friend's wedding. And it is a Daisy wedding. I was saying Desi and it's like Daisy. Daisy. He was like, don't fuck this up, Ashley. And here I am. So Daisy wedding, which is similar to an Indian wedding. It's all in that arena. But I am so excited for it. And again, this is someone that he's so close to and he's going to speak at the wedding and he playing the bachelor party and everything and just the outfits. I don't know you're going to go back to regular outfits. It's hard to go back to regular. Regular just white people outfits. I'm going to Alana's wedding in Italy and everything I'm buying. I'm like, I don't fucking care about this. I don't know. Stupid fucking silk dress. Ooh, cutouts on the side. The difference between

yesterday or you looking at those dresses and then me getting my dress last night. Like, I only went to one other Indian wedding and I'm just obsessed. The style that I like is like the La Hango, which is like the big skirt and then you can do like a crop top. Then you have like a wrap. I mean, that's the coolest part. You get to wear like bra tops and crop tops. And so I have two nights. I got two full outfits.

People ask me a lot where I get these. Even though prior to this, I'd only been to one Indian wedding. But Kina, which our friend Jackie, who's been to a ton of indie wedding, she sent this recommendation to me. K-Y-N-A-H. and both of these looks came. They fit like a glove. I don't think I had to do any altering. And I'm just so obsessed.

They're so beautiful. Bright colors. I hope you have a huge Indian wedding. Lots of days. Tons of outfits. Horses. Camels. Can I be on the horse?

Me and you. Just me and you. Not the groom. I'm giving you away. What in Dewey? What if I'm on a mini horse? Rana, no, we have to do this. Sparkolize is a foot and a half taller than I have.

We have to do this in Dewey Beach. They're like, the horses are coming in. The Clydesdales and I'm on a mini horse in the front. You lead the pack. You can't get up on a Clydesdale. I don't want to go to a mini horse. They're so big. They used to bring the Budweiser Clydesdales to Starboard

because they used to bring in so much money for Anheiserbush. And so they would bring those fucking horses. I tie my wedding. and I'm like, can I borrow the horses? They're like, you have to brand them bud light. I'm like, well, this sponsored wedding. Yeah, that's fine. As long as we'll have to pay for them, I'll literally do anything.

If you come trotting up on a mini horse, the galloping is going to be, that's going to upstage. I'm a little crop top. I said I can't be upstaged at my wedding, but that would do it. Yeah, a little cropped up, titty's out. It's like me. It's just titty's bouncing on this mini horse. It's me and your nephews.

It's me and Jay and Aaron. we just like right out together on the many horses. Jay will be taller than me by then. Wedding, sorted. Yeah, that's it. We got it. Do you think when Jay's three, he'll be tall as Yes. Yes. J's one and a half. He wears three T. It's crazy. Forty's tall as I am. Yeah. But I'll just wrap it up. So we have this wedding and then we have a weekend off and I'm going to go to Delaware and I'm going to do this trip with the few girls. And then the last weekend in July, the first weekend in August will be like our vacation. So we are going to Canada. I, I'm just thinking about how much time we're spending apart.

You're, are we going to be okay? You left for two weeks. Are we going to be okay? I feel like I'm going to be insufferable when you get back. I'm going to want to be over at your house every day. Memory, like, you do not like me that much. Remember like in March and April every day?

I was like, we don't hang out anymore. We haven't hung out since December. We have had no solo hang since December. That's going to be me again in August. I am leaving for two weeks. Two weeks straight. And then another week I'm leaving. We each basically were like, we each are doing two

full weeks away in the summer and like let's coordinate around each other and let each other have some time off and how this looks recording wise and stuff like that you just did yours straight well one of them is july fourth week so no reason to come back i hear you most importantly we'll be here together to record so you'll never miss it never miss us you guys yeah so i'm excited we got a lot of fun stuff coming up but you know i think birthday is a time to reflect and this has been the best year and i talked last year about turning 40 and how that felt leading up to it and I had anxiety around it and some dread and then I just really embraced it. And I couldn't scream it from the mount tops enough.

And it's just been amazing. And life just keeps getting better. And so I just want to always remind people that. Like, don't be scared to turn 40, turn 41, turn 30, turn 28, whatever you have going on. And you're having any sort of feelings about it's a privileged age. And it feels great. And you just, you know, you feel hotter. You feel sexier.

have more knowledge, you have more life experience, you make friends and all the things. And so it's been a good year. I'm glad that you feel like that. And I was really thinking that a lot on my birthday when so many people stayed late and you and I stayed up with everybody. And I think the narrative, of course, is if you don't kids, you'll be lonely, your friends will have kids

and they won't come make the time for you. And here I am, I'm almost 40 and you're in your 40s. And everybody around us makes the time to be there and share in special moments. And it was my fear, I guess. everybody's fear growing up. Like you're going to hit this age and no one's around. Everybody's still around, you know?

And it's cyclical because you and I prioritize other people and so they do want to prioritize us. And yeah, it's important. Yeah. And I think a lot of just the way that things happen in waves at different times. Like I'm like feeling like I got a lot of weddings coming up. I have friends getting engaged in their late 30s. And so much of that happened in my 20s with my college girlfriends.

Like it all happened in like a five year span of, you know, like 23 to 28. with all my college girlfriends and now here we are dating a young man you guys start the cycle all over oh my god you don't have to she's like I have so many weddings coming up you've a younger boyfriend no I mean not even that like we got invited to julio's wedding he's our age you know not everybody's getting married in their 20s and early 30s yeah you know so I've had it be kind of just rolling my whole life I didn't have like that two years where everybody got married Andrew Collin that's the other one I'm thinking of oh right Andrew Collin he's older shit he's older than than me. Like, you know, we have a group chat where people are getting engaged later and like,

I don't know. I just, you know, Taylor just got engaged and it's just, it's fun. Yeah, it's like, it doesn't just have to all be so young and it just, it's, yeah, it's rolling, rolling engagements. You're right. We are the main characters. It's not sparkless. It's our best. Don't bring him into this. He is younger. There's nothing to do with them. A young Libra. All right, well, so we're recording a little ahead of time and I'll give you guys some Europe tea afterwards. Yes. Okay. I know it's still summer, but the tour is coming up. The No Crumbs Tour starts September 21st. We are in the three-month window.

Thank God. It kicks off in Vegas. And we posted this video last week. We hope you guys saw it on Girls' Got to Eat. And it was our official GGE strippers doing a little Montana boys style lip sync for y'all. And I hope you guys go back and watch it. Again, Girls Got Eat Podcast on Instagram. And I don't want to disappoint that they're not going to be at every single show,

but they're going to be at a lot of shows. and we're excited to have them and, you know, you guys get to know them on tour. So you'll see them at a lot of the shows. They are Philly based. So I'm just going to throw that out there. There are Philly guys and they're going to do some more East Coast shows. But it was funny, like, giving notes on that video. Like, we were in the group chat.

Like, they said it once and I had had a vision. Yeah. And I creative directed this, like, with Leon. And he's great too. And he's like a performer. And he's like the leader. Leon Boudreau. He's incredible.

He's with Hankomania and he's a musical artist as well. but like I was like how do I tell him like we need the last guy to look how you tell the strippers look more naked I know it's weird to be like I wanted you to appear to be naked because the first one they shot you could see some panty and I was like how do I say this panty I was like how do I say we need him to be looking like he's butt naked with a cowboy hat I just if there's anybody you can say it to it's a stripper I know there's still this part of me and then tessa had funny notes like the first guy in the front the first take they did he didn't whip his belt off and Tessa was like, we need a belt whip.

Tester really, she got in there. She's granular with the notes. Yes. And so then when they were like, you know what, we want to reshoot it. We want to shoot. We want it to be perfect. So then we all like gathered our notes and we like made it perfect and we made them custom merch. You and tested a great job. And then like again they reshot it and I sent it straight to you guys. But really it was more about Tessa. I was like Tessa, what are your notes?

Tessa is like that one hot one. I'd like take more clothing off. Well she manages the strippers. That's her job on the door. She has a lot of other jobs. She runs the show. But dealing for the Drivers is part of it. But anyway, we love them. Go back and watch the video. They're hunkomania. They're based out of Philly and they will be at a number of our shows and we're so excited. And I just really want to, again, let you guys know how insane these shows are going to be.

We are starting to play in them now. We are so excited. We have so much local talent. And, you know, we always have different things with like sports teams and dancers and drummers and just want to rattle off these tour dates. If they appeal to you guys, make a trip. We have Las Vegas on September 21st. That's going to be epic. All of our girlfriends are coming. Make the trip. We love Vegas so much. That's going to be at the Cosmonds. We have Pittsburgh on September 26. Rain is hometown show, whole family, dad, dad's girlfriend, mom, stepdad, whatever. Everybody.

Everybody. We have Indianapolis. That's going to be the next night, September 27th. We have Detroit. You guys know how I feel about Detroit, my homeland. Not really, but I am passionate about it. People are like, are you from there? They're from Delaware.

Detroit is September 28th. We have Portland, Maine, going for the very first time. And that is going to be a Halloween show on October 24th. Our Halloween shows are epic. Everybody dresses up. We dress up. We put so much time and energy into it. And they are so, so lit.

So that is Portland, Maine, October 24th. And then Philly is October 26th, another holiday show, Halloween show. And then we go to Denver. We've always had such epic shows in Denver on November 14th. Minneapolis, we love. November 15th. Madison, Wisconsin, first time ever in Madison. That's going to be November 16th.

And then we have our New York shows in Times Square at the Palladium, December 13th and December 14th. One of those is sold out. So we added a second one. And then we end the year in Boston. Three shows. Three shows. You all sold out the first two super quick.

So we added a third. So we will to see you on December 20th and 21st. Get that last show tickets. And that's it. At the Wilbur. This is where I met my boyfriend for the very first time years ago. The Boston Celtics just won the national championship. We know we always have those dancers.

Yeah. So plan your birthday parties around it. Your bachelor at parties. Bring your significant others. Your parents. It is a wild, horny, fun-filled, beautiful night. Okay, I have one DM, and then I know you have a lot of stuff to say, but I just want to show us with you. Okay, I got this this morning, 11 a.m.

Not that that matters, but she writes, hi, my grandma and I are crossing the border to come to your Detroit, no-crum show. I'd love to make it special because my nana just retired and has been listening to the pod with me for a few years. Anything I can do, I'll email closer to as well, but was listening to the pod and thought to DM. Grandma's coming. I want grandma to come up for the dance competition. A hundred percent. I'm so mad. We get vibrators away, you guys.

Grandma's getting a vibrator. No matter what. Whether she has a talent or not. Blow gel. Come to Detroit and watch this grandma when vibrator's on stage. We got to get her up there. I'm so excited. Nana just retired.

We're going to have Nana's retirement party in Detroit. She is like only 20 years older than us. I'll be so mad. Raina, shut up. Why do you have been going to say that? Because you know I was zooming in on this girl. Like she looks young. So if she's 22, like her mom could be like 45.

Grandma could be like a six. No, she's grandma still. Grandma's in her 70s. Just come see this grandma dance. It's going to be great. Girls Gottoeatatcom. Get those tickets. We can't wait to see you guys.

We love you. Okay, so I am going to tell you about AG1. Okay, so AG1 is a part of our routine. And if you were somebody who's really maybe never really paid much attention to what you put in your body, this is like a great place to start. So it is really a foundational nutritional supplement. It delivers daily nutrients and gut health support. We're so big on that.

and is backed by multiple research studies. You can trust what you're putting in your body. And if you're busy and you feel like, I don't have time to like measure out a bunch of things and take a bunch of different supplements, this is just this one thing. You drink age you one in the morning. You can do it before you make breakfast,

before you work out. Rainy usually does it after she works out. You can do it before your coffee after, whatever fits into your lifestyle. And it's just going to make you feel better. You feel like you're ready to take on the day. I'm going to feel healthier. You can put into protein shaker a smoothie as well.

And listen, I said it before that I am not giving up coffee, but a lot of people have realized that they do get their energy and need less coffee to power their day. Once they start incorporating AG1 into their daily routine, in a research study, 91% of people notice they needed less coffee after 60 days of drinking AG1. So it's great for your gut microbiome. We're so big on gut health and even the gut brain connection, your immune and digestive support, all those things. I mean, we just can't recommend it enough if you're really trying to incorporate some more healthy daily routines.

So if there is one product, we trust to support our whole body health. It's AG1, and that's why we have a partner with them for so long. It's easy and satisfying to start your journey with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first purchase at drinkag1.com slash GGE. That's drinkag1.com slash GGE. Check it out. And let's talk about customizable beauty. So if your feed is flooded with customizable skin and hair care products and your a little skeptical of it. I am too, and I see it all the time. But when pros says it's custom,

they actually mean it, so it's no gimmick. Your formula couldn't exist without you. So each and every bottle of pros is custom hair and skincare made to order and personalized. So they do this in-depth consultation. They analyze over 80 factors for a complete view of your life and your beauty goals. So that's both with skin and hair depending on what you want to focus on. So dull complexion, damaged ends, dry scalp, fine lines, all those different things. They get super personal. They cover diet, exercise, stress level. They really just want to uncover what's impacting your skin and hair and truly personalized products for you.

The packaging is also so beautiful. It looks really high end. Really one of a kind formulas and equals one and a million results. I mean, I love it and I'm big on skincare, hair care. Like I couldn't be more obsessed. And I have to say, I did like the customizable beauty, cleanser, you know, moisturizer. I'm just obsessed with the cleanser. Like the packaging, like you said, but like the way that it feels on my skin, my skin feels

like silky smooth and glowy and I've just been so happy with it. So I really, really love it. I really feel like it's high end and it's so fun to like, you know, answer the questions and forget your formula for what's going to work best for you. Yes. Also in a third party, double blind dermatologist supervised controlled clinical study, aka the gold standard in research studies. Pros proved that personalization works better than off the shelf alternatives. Tons to choose from. There's a hair mask, styling gel, root source, all types of stuff, hair oil, which is like like so big right now. Proz is so confident that you'll have your results that they're offering our listeners an exclusive trial offer so you can see the difference. Custom care can make 50%

of your first subscription order at pros.com slash gge. That's P-R-O-S-E.com slash G-GE for your free consultation and 50% off your one-of-a-kind formulas, pros.com slash G-GE. 50? That's a lot. More than 41? We can't do that. All this money. We got this DM from a listener and it opened up one thing that I've been wanting to talk to you about. But it's a friendship topic and I want to talk to you about a dating topic as well. I've just been like thinking about. So I'll read you the DM about friendships. See what you think.

Okay. So this girl, she met a friend off of BFF. And she met up with the, she said she was really nice. I thought there was a French bread flag though. We both had our drinks and she ordered bread and olive oil. A whole big round of bread comes out with two plates. She puts the bread on her side. So like scoots it over to herself.

doesn't undo either of the plates, and she just begins dipping and eating the bread. She doesn't offer me any. Conversation is moving, and I'm thinking she's about to get really full and offer me a slice. We're nearly in the end of the evening, and all but two slices of this loaf remain, and I'm thinking she's definitely going to offer me a slice at this point.

She cannot finish a whole loaf of bread. She's not going to leave with all of this. And then she asks for a box for the bread. No. Is this real? She really is not going to offer me a taste of this, and she's going to take it all home. If she had, I would have offered to send her a meager portion of a small price for the bread.

Can I be friends with this girl? No. It's really. But not friends, partners. It's a person red flag. So I would like to open up the conversation about sharing and share plates. Well, okay. And different types of dishes, by the way.

I wouldn't be friends. You can. Some people are like listening to this. They're like, I don't care about that. Then that's great for you. What? Me? Rana, that's crazy.

It's also just not. hearing to societal norms. Bread? It's not a steak. I don't have to offer you some of my steak. I don't have to. Or like a roast bread. You got to share bread.

It's like an app. It's above the app. It's bread. It's the most shareable item. It's the number one thing you should be sharing with me. But also, she doesn't operate the same way as I do in the world. So if I was like, I'm going to die if I don't eat a full loaf of bread right now. I was like, I, something's going on. My blood sugar.

I don't fucking know why you need a whole loaf of bread. But for my health, I need a full loaf of bread. I need a full of a bread. So when I order that full of a bread, I'd be like, hey, I got to eat this full of a bread. Do you want any bread? Because I'm going to take it to the house. You know, like, you just,

wouldn't you feel so insane when you, the scoot is so funny? She brings it over closer to it. Doesn't unpack the plates. That was so funny. Like the visual, the details. Like, I'm watching this happen. Just like, oh my God.

The bread is a metaphor for the world. We don't think about the world the same way. I don't actually have any friends that don't offer me a sip of their drink if they really like it. Yeah. I've always feel. really bad. And I'm like, do you want to sip of this?

And I'm like, I'm going to drink a third of it if I take a sip of it. Anything that I've shared. Yeah. I'm like, I don't care. We're back to sharing drinks, which I love. Anything that I really like that's just good in general I want to share with somebody. And whether it was a loaf of bread or calamari or meatballs or anything, I want to share. So like food to me is love and like sharing that experience with somebody and talking about it.

Do you like it? I think that unless there's a medical reason why I can't share food with you. Yeah. Like COVID. Well, right. Did she have a medical reason? It does not sound as though. You know, like, she could have cut a slice off.

She could have been like, listen, I'm having a herpes flare up. You know, like, I shouldn't be touching stuff that you're touching. That could happen. No, it could happen. Yeah. The few are germophobes that don't really want you to, like, touch their food that get a little weird about it. And the hierarchy of chairs, bread, number one. Crazy.

Top of the pyramid. But to take it home. That's a red flag in and of itself. Actually, no. I would take home some, like, cheddar bay biscuits from her. Red Lobster. Okay, but a loaf of bread is going to dry up. That's what I'm saying. It's crazy. What are we taking this home for? It's crazy. I don't think I've ever taken home a bread item or a biscuit or, you know, but I dated one guy.

He's the guy that had all the stuffed animals. Stuffed animal guy. If you're an OG, you know. And I think we did get to a place where we were sharing, but like the very first time we hung out, you know, I met him on like a press trip. And we went to eat. And I swear he chose this place because of their burger. Okay. But regardless, he got the burger. And he didn't eat at all and did not offer me any. Is that so unhinged?

And I just, it was brand new. I didn't know him like that. I almost, it was a test, almost. I actually didn't want to ask because if you just scarf it down, you're so hungry and you're like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Or not even. But if you aren't eating at all and you still didn't offer me a taste, you let the server take it back.

Crazy. Huge red flag. It's crazy. I mean, like, I had so many red flags that, like, kind of all went in with that. He was the cheap stuff. Like, it was so nuts. I mean, again, it's just we look at the world differently. Like, if I really like something and I'm consuming it, I, like, want the person I'm

with to try it. I'm like, you got to get in on this experience. Have the last bite. I love you. I'm amped on you having this. Also, I'll eat a little less if you take a couple bites. I don't want a victim blame because this is a first time. If you didn't offer me some of your food, I sat there and want you to eat a whole loaf of bread.

I'd be doing it. to talk about you on the podcast. But like, first time I'm hanging out with somebody, do you think that girl should have been like, that looks really good? Would you mind if I try it? Or do you think that it is implied because she dragged it towards herself and did not unbox the two plates? It was implied, do not ask.

And then there's part of me that's like, was she also testing her like I did with that guy? It's like, if you never thought to think, you know, this is a sign of what's to come. You're a serial killer. I've been thinking about this a lot because I've had a lot of dinner dates recently and like my own behavior. Raina has been on a journey. I'm trying. She's out there.

I've had a couple of behaviors that I'm just like, I don't know if other people think are weird. So I do think I'm a better order than your average person. So I do have to remind myself that he's not as adventurous as I am. They don't know as many words as I do. Like I lived in New York and worked in restaurants my whole life. So like not everybody knows what pirata is. We can't date, but it's fine if you don't know what it is. So I feel like I was on this date and this guy just like let me order a bunch of stuff he didn't want.

And I thought that was kind of weird that he didn't like. speak up. I had another experience that I loved where I was like trying to choose between three things and he was like get them all. I was like oh I'm wet. I love you so much. It's amazing. Okay, but I realize I've been doing this thing and I can't decide if it's weird. Okay. I am the opposite of a germaphobe. I do not care. Like I've had to talk to you a couple times. I don't use share plates. I go right in. You go into my brother's fridge with a fork in their chicken salad during a pandemic. One time at the high of the pandemic. I was like, you got to, is this for real? you really you'll go into someone's fridge with the utensil that's all the time i get that from my dad because he used to come over on saturday morning he's like pick us up and he would like be in my mom's fridge doing that while my stepdad watch my stepdad would watch like i feel like it was like a weird power move my dad was like i dare you to say something to me yeah okay yeah that's true um but you're your father's daughter so we're at aliphante me in this guy and i suggested a bunch of food he said yes he didn't seem to like a bunch of it and one of the things was this vodka pasta and he didn't even seem to be

really eating it. So I was eating straight out of the main dish. Do you think that's weird on a first, well, we'd already had sex. So this wasn't. His dick had been to my mouth so I thought I could go into the main. Well, yes. So like very first date, first time you're hanging out, but this is a third date and we had already fucked multiple times. He took a share plate and put the pasta on the share plate. Yeah, you don't like a share plate. I don't. I want to eat out of the maid, but do you think it's disgusting to other people that I go direct into the main dish day one. I don't think disgusting is the word. Rude? It's just personal preference. Like, yeah, sometimes when we are sharing a pasta as a group, I don't love that you go in to the main. She asked me. I know. I want to talk to you

about it. But then if there's a dip, we all got our pita in there. We're all sharing germs. You know, like, I'm not calling you out at dinner. I guess I'm a lot. I'm always like, huh. Raina's always got a clean share plate. She sends up right back to the kitchen. I hand them back and I'm like, I won't eat this. Let us know in the YouTube comments, guys. No, I don't think it's like rude.

I think, yeah, it's not this like, oh my God, Raina's like a disgusting rude pig. But I don't double dip. Yeah. Usually. If it's something that I can rip, I don't double dip. Food to me is like such a, with a date.

Like it's such like a, not like a sexual. experience, but it's like a flirtatious experience. And I do want to just like share stuff from the same plate. And also it's different. Like I tend to order stuff you can share. I like really shareable items. If you have a burger, I'm not like picking food up off your plate. Entree and stuff like that. But like I like the communalness of eating. I mean, you're a far into the spectrum from bread girl. And I prefer you. Of course. Can I close a loop on the bread? What if she would have reached over and just. helped herself.

I was, can you, the girl swatting her away? Like, I wonder if I would have just fucked with the person and been like, oh, yeah, I'll just, and like, fully reached across the table to get myself some of that bread. I'm with you. I feel like there is an implied nature of bread. Bread. You share bread. Yeah.

It's like not sharing calamari, fried foods. Like, it's just, it's food we're all eating together. French fries. What if someone gate all their French fries? Crazy. Can I tell you something that, like, kind of ended a friendship for me? So I'm kind of half joking, but we are not friends anymore. And we just kind of drifted apart.

This was not like a fight. But this kind of was a sign. And we had been day drinking all day. Like we were just out doing fun stuff. And then we ended up, I think we were at a restaurant in Little Italy. This is when I lived in New York. And we were sharing pastas and we had a salad. And I don't know.

I think I picked up like a crouton or like a big hard romaine leaf. Like basically I just, I picked up a thing from the salad plate and put it in my mouth. You love bare hands of salad. You know I love my pinchers. But I'm there with a girlfriend. Like we're drunk. You know, I have good manners. You know, like I didn't take a fistful of salad and like put it in my face.

I literally think it was like a crouton or something that was hard and pick up a bowl. And I just popped it in my mouth. And she goes, you wouldn't do that on a date, would you? What? And I was like, I hate you. What? And it was so awkward. I was like, this is her shit, not mine.

Like, why you talk to your friends like that? You know what I mean? And who cares if I do? What does it matter to you? What do you care? I'm so shocked by this. I know. It was so weird.

What is that supposed to mean? I know. It was just so weird. Like what a first date? Like a total stranger's play? I don't know. I just, we're not on a date.

So what's the difference? I literally think I was like, I don't know, girl, we're drunk and I just ate a crout with my hands. What's it to you? You're also drunk in this scenario. It was so weird. And like, I don't think she made comments like that to me a lot.

I wouldn't have a friend like that. But like little things here and there. I was like, she's just not cool. That's not a cool person. Yeah. I'm glad you're not friends anymore. I'm always doing this afterwards. That is crazy.

Also, I don't like anybody that's like, would you do that on a date? Well, I'm not on a date. This is not the same scenario. I know you. I'll put my fist in your smoothie if I feel like it. Right. No, it's unsolicited. Like, if you came to me and you were like, listen, I haven't eaten salad with my hands.

And do you think that is a bad look on a date? I'd be like, all right, we'll talk about it. But like, to otherwise, shut up. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I guess there's a world if I'm holding my fork like this, that maybe you were like, Ashley, no one wants to take you out. And I got to tell you why. You know, let me tell you why. But yeah, it was just, it was a weird thing. I have been thinking about this lately because I've been going on food dates. And I'm just like, are they going home telling their friends? Like, the way she just eats off of everything. But I think that should make you think that I'm good in bed. I'm a wild person. Yes. If any of those friends were smart, they'd be like, she could suck a dick. Yeah, I can't be contained by share plates. Yeah, she's going to eat your ass. I really will. I don't want to take up room on this table with share plates.

Let's go directly in. Like, I'm going to do to your butt. I love a share plate. You do. I actually love a share plate. Well, we got that salmon meza. And I wanted. Mezay.

Dezay. And I wanted to, like, make my own little thing on my plate. Like, you know me. I like to put stuff together and really, like, create a little thing. So I wanted to take that piece of toast. And then I wanted to take the salmon and take the creme fresh and then the hard-boiled egg. and like I feel like I couldn't do that. I needed a secondary platform for which to build my masterpiece.

I needed a place to make it. Yeah, you did it was cute. And then it inspired me. I did it too. I bought my own little sandwich. That's so funny because we were on your birthday lunch. What if you would be like, no share plates is my birthday. We're going to share off this place together.

And don't bring us any sober either. That's my cake. You see with your hands and no share plates. Yeah, I mean, I think about eating styles and food and weirdly, I can excuse a lot of stuff from like, if you're cool, then that's not that big of a deal. like if you're weird about food, I would have a hard time dating you. Yeah.

I mean, and that's not everybody's story. Like food is just our big part of our lives. I mean, listen to the name of the podcast, you know, like, brain him more so than me,

but it's always a way that I've like bonded with like family and friends. And to some people, like not wanting to share food is like the biggest red flag. And some people doesn't bother them at all. But like I don't want to fuck you. Like I'm turned off and I can't tell my, vagina otherwise. Like if you don't let us share food at a restaurant, you don't want to share, you don't bring it up. I can't get it up for you. It's a level of rigidity. I don't understand.

Like if somebody else on a date with was like, I'm going to get my own thing. I'd be like, are you mad at me? Yeah. Be honest, did I do something to offend you? I know. And then when you start to really be around people who always want to share, so like our friend group that we travel with a lot and like who we did like Cabo and Greece and like that group of friends, like it's always all sharing the time. I've never been out with them where we each ordered an entree. But like sometimes my family wants to get entrees. The elder generation. Right. So, and they will share apps and stuff. But like, sometimes I'll be out in my family. I'm like, are you guys losers? I know. They're like, you don't want to share your entree. I'm like, what's an entree? Right. Let's split everything.

You know, so you're always trying to like convert the boomers on that. Well, I'm glad we talked about it. Yeah. I've been wanting to ask you about my dining behavior on days. On air. Yeah. You want to have an intervention. Ashley picks on rain and too much. I just, I really like was laughing when I like went directly into that vodka pasta and that guy like picked up a share plate and served himself. And I was like, oh, you're not going to do it. Okay. Okay, guys, well, let us know you think if you're watching on YouTube. Nicely respectfully, of course, but before we get into it with DeMona, we want to tell you about skims. We are so obsessed with skims. You guys know this. I'm never not wearing skims when we record. I know. A bra, a shirt, a panty. And we're just so obsessed

of their t-shirts. Like, we all have different body types, but I feel like we all can agree. We love a t-shirt. We want a t-shirt that fits perfectly, whether we want it to be form-fitting or looser, stretchy, cotton, like all the things. So we're obsessed. The fits everybody t-shirt is really truly Rain and I's obsession. Like, I personally, I said this before, I started wearing underwear again. I dabble after trying this fabric. So I had to buy the t-shirt. I was like, if this brought me into thongs, I got to get the t-shirt. So we just are obsessed, the soft, smoothing seamless t-shirt. It's really lightweight. You can wear that all summer long. You know, it's going to be a hot summer. La Nina. What is happening around the country?

We've been complaining about L.A., but I'm like, I'm glad I don't want to use coast anymore. We're good. Gucci. I can't talk about La Nina enough. Anyway, so we just love all of it. But yes, you're going to want some of those lightweight t-shirts. And I just feel like it's my whole closet now. Like, it's just, I just pick a t-shirt. If I want a neutral, I pick that cocoa brown we love or like Skins got me to Coco. Yes, a sexy white t-shirt with some jeans. You know, you just like throw it on with some of your like sexy body-hugging jeans or your wide-legged jeans and or just I'll pick the red, the brighter colors. We love everything. And of course we're talking about the T-shirts today, but we love it all. We love the underwear, the bras, all the things.

I was talking about the bras, like pushing my titties up. And we can't stress it enough how much we are obsessed with skims and want you guys to check them out. Oh, and not, I mean, the skims campaigns. Having the girl from Bridgeton, they nail it every time. That's not part of our talking points, but I just, I can't get over how good they are with that and how they're always like really of the moment. So shop the skims t-shirt shop at skims.com. Now available in sizes extra, extra small to to 4x. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know we sent you after you placed your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. Very important. You got to let them know. Okay. All right. Let's get into it. All right, guys, we are so excited

to finally welcome this guest to the show today. She is a celebrated dating coach with nearly 20 years of experience. And she is the official love expert of the Drew Barrymore show. She has written dating columns for the LA Times and the Washington Post. She has worked as a dating expert and spokesperson for top dating apps, including Match and Bumble. Her weekly podcast, Dates and Mates, has been featured in Cosmo, Huffington Post, Bustle, and more. Her book, F. The Fairy Tills out now. Please welcome to the show, DeMona Hoffman.

Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. Last time we saw each other, we were on Drew? Yeah, on my turf. Now I'm on your turf. I know. We met on the Drew Barrymore show. Sounds like such a flex.

But we were on this, like, fun dating. panel for Valentine's Day with Dr. Ruth. Dr. Ruth, Matthew Hussey, and you guys. Yeah. It was so great. It was really, and they sat Matthew Hussey next to Dr. Ruth. I was like, I can't take her. I mean, who knows?

She's still got it. She was like all over it. She has those opinions. Yeah. Did she say something like, Matthew, if I would, 40 years younger. Matthew's wife's there. It's like for last. She's like, I'm going to give her this lady her props.

Yeah. She was like, Matthew can get it. Seven minutes in heaven. Well, speaking about people who can get it. The contractor next door, Raina, please tell what he just texted you. So I love him so much. I think he's so cute. Okay.

And then he texted me. So Ashley was at my house, Dima and Tessa, everybody's here. And he texted me, your friend is stunning. I'm presuming she's not single. And Ashley just walked in the door. So I'm like, tall girl jean skirt, short girl jean jacket. I'm like, maybe Tessa? She's wearing stretch pants.

I'm trying to like describe people's albums. I'm like, who are we talking about? And he said, short with an amazing smile, Demo. Oh, the short of the amazing smile. How close did you get to him? Did you interact with him? I did, I did, because I was looking for the address. Oh, okay.

You guys had a moment. We had a moment. It was very clear he was shooting his shot. What did he say? But, yes, he said, you're going to go around this way, and if I see you again, which I hope I do, or something like that, then, you know, you'll come back. I can't remember exactly what he said. But I was like, I appreciate somebody that is willing to just,

just shoot their shot in the wild. I feel like people aren't doing that anymore, right? And we all have this like fantasy of the meat cute, but nobody's willing to do that. So it didn't work for him, but, and then he followed up with a text. I mean, that is high intense. Everything he did was on point. On point. Like, take note to show with you and then follow up with Raina to see if.

you were single. Have you responded, Raina? Yeah. I mean, I were texting back and forth. Oh, I was about to say he's just sitting there waiting and he's just like shaking. She left him on red. I said she's very not single, but I'll pass it a lot. I said she's amazing. You can listen to the interview. He's great.

That's so funny. You send him her book. Trying to get a listener. I'm trying to sell your book. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And we talk about flirting techniques in the book.

So, you know, maybe. Who knows? Actually, that's funny. because I talk about, I have this set it up strategy, smile, eye contact, touch. All he did was smile. I'm just a nice person. He's a beautiful smile. And he picked up on the smile.

Exactly. Yes, he referenced the smile. That's a man. He's a contractor. And eye contact. I didn't do the touch, though. So that would have been too much. Your husband's listening to this like, excuse me?

What are we doing here? Okay. Anyways, we're thrilled to finally have you on the show. And Ashley and I love your book. And we highly recommend it. will obviously drive people towards buying it. But let's prop it. Yeah, let's prop.

Yeah, let's put it up. It looks great in the frame. Ta-da. Love a hardcover. So can you give us like an elevator pitch spiel on how you got into this? What made you start doing dating content? Quite by accident is the short answer. I was living in L.A., very frustrated with the dating scene. And my boss had just been through a divorce and she was like, I don't like these guys that you're dating.

You should do what I'm doing. You should try online dating. you mentioned I've been doing this almost 20 years. You don't look like it. Thank you, honey. The contractor doesn't think so. I'm like since birth. Don't do the math.

But yeah, I've been doing this almost 20 years. And at that time, my boss had just figured out this treasure trove of men online. And it worked great for her as someone who was divorced and she was in her mid-40s. And she could just, she would line it up like after work back to back to back. And I was like, oh, this is very interesting. I'm going out all the time. I'm meeting people all the time, but I'm not meeting the right kind of people.

So I was working as a casting director in television, and I was teaching classes for actors in marketing how to have headshots that would stand out to someone like me, how to ace an audition, because I found that there was just this gap between what people thought they were putting out into the world and what they were really showing up as. And I realized when I finally said yes to online dating

that what I was learning professionally applied to my dating experience. a profile photo is a headshot. At first day, is always an audition. So I was able to figure out a system for online dating that worked for me. I met my husband online. And then other people started coming to me for my secret. And I was like, I don't know.

I just do this kind of marketing thing that I used to teach actors. And turns out it works. It's so interesting that your background is teaching people how to show up online the way that they think they show up in the world or vice versa. Because online dating is like that. Going on dates is like that. I mean, we've all had situations where like, how did this happen on a date?

It's like, you didn't show up like you thought you were showing up. We're so addicted to stories and narratives. And so, you know, there's his story, her story, and then there's the truth. And we're all playing these scripts out in our head all of the time. And I think dating really gets interesting when you're willing to maybe flip the perspective of maybe you're not the protagonist. You're trying to bring that main character energy,

but maybe you're not the protagonist in the story right now. You're the villain. I don't. Am I the villain today? Yeah. Am I the problem? It's me. Right. So when we flip the perspective and we also let go of these narratives that we've been fed a steady diet of fairy tales and rom-coms since we were kids. And those are so deeply ingrained. And we date based on them. But something really interesting happens when you're willing to let that go and realize that you are writing your own love story every day. I mean, the stuff that we are like you said just fed, even. music too. You know, like, there's this one song. I think it's Morgan Wallen last night.

Is that the name of, I love that song. I was like, yeah, of course, it's so catchy, but it's sing it for us a little bit. She does like to sing on the show sometimes. We said things we shouldn't say. It's basically this toxic volatile couple. Last night we let the liquor talk. Yes, last night we let the liquor talk. Like, you can tell it's about them drunk fighting. That's what it's about. I can't remember anything we said, but we said too much. Yes, it's so funny. So basically, I'm like, how many guys have used a song to get back their girlfriend after they fought with them all night drunkenly? You know, and you're like, it's so romantic. This toxic couple, you know, that the song's about.

And I'm like, even stuff like that, we have normalized. Yes, rom-coms and that. But the other side of it, too, like the ups and downs and the volatility. And it's like, this is not healthy. Oh, the grand gestures. Yeah. Yeah. Grand gestures, things like that is not healthy stability.

No. But we've romanticized them. We've romanticized everything. Right. And then we take meaning from things that don't have meaning. We apply other meaning to things that should mean something else. And we're always trying to complete the narrative. But when you step back and look at it, especially when you're not in that emotional place, like, because that's the thing. We all want to feel something. So we think when we're chasing chemistry or when we are having that volatile up and down relationship. And believe me, I did plenty of that before I met my husband. When you are in. something that's safe and healthy, it feels like nothing's happening. People always write into dates and mates and they're like, well, I don't know if this person is right for me. Like, how is it supposed to feel? And it's like, safe? Yeah, probably not like the Morgan Wall and song. It's supposed to feel like is it the opposite of that? Then that's probably good. Yeah, you're actually supposed to feel the opposite

of the Morgan Wall and song. I totally agree. I love that song. I always think about like one of my like best healthiest relationships. And I would always say, like, I would go to work and I wouldn't think about him for hours. I would be able to like focus on my work, go to a meeting, text with my friends. And yeah, I'd get like a high love of my life. Would you have for lunch today? Like text, but like I was able to be present and focused. And like nothing was really happening. You know, I like that feeling. We have a friend and I just think she's still, maybe she's just in that place in life. Maybe she'll stay there forever. But she is a little younger and she's just in a super volatile relationship. And I think she thrives in that. I think she really wants it. I think she would

find my relationship very boring. You know. And I mean, I hope that she grows out of that and sees like what stable, healthy relationships look like and feel like. But I've said it all the time. She's over here like, God, what you have. And I'm like, I actually don't think you'd enjoy it. I think you'd be like, this is so boring. Where is the fighting and where's the push and pull? And where's the big fight with the grand gesture to make up and the makeup sex and all that stuff, you know?

And we've all been there, like you said. We've all been in those relationships. Yeah. And as we grow and we become wiser and more fully ourselves. more present, we're like, wait a minute, I don't want to feel that anymore. I want to get off of the roller coaster. Yeah. And what I aim to do with F the Fairy Tale is to remind people that you are in control of your dating destiny. You choose to not feel that way anymore. Like, you're choosing to get into this text fight. You're choosing to have that 2 a.m. drunken fight and not say, look, I really

care about you. This is important to me. We're not in the right headspace. I'm going to press pause on this. Let's talk about it in the morning. and be willing to sit in the discomfort. That's the thing. We have so many escapes for discomfort now. We can just escape into our phone and then we go into the endless TikTok scroll and those feelings go away.

But if we're willing to really confront it and we're willing to sit in it, that's really, discomfort is the feeling of change happening. I say that in the book. So then we can become aware of how we are perpetuating, our own narratives. So you talk about collective dating burnout. I've watched a couple of reels on your page, and I read about it in the book. And one of the things you said in a reel recently was that there's

actually not a decline in like dating apps and people going on there. There's a decline in people's attitudes towards them and how they're like approaching the world and their feelings towards dating. So can we talk a little bit about like what you see as collective dating burnout? Yes. And I've been talking about dating burnout for a long time. There was a big surge in dating burnout right before the pandemic. Then it kind of went away because we needed dating apps to connect us. And it's come back with a vengeance because it was never gone in the first place. I don't think it's actually the dating app burnout. Like, I think we are all feeling this collective disconnect.

It's all about communication and connection. And that's what we really crave. And we were sort of leaning on dating apps as a substitute for that. But they were a quick fix. And they didn't really solve the problem. Sure, you can meet people off dating apps. You can just be chatting on the dating apps. You can get that short-term need met, but if we don't address the underlying disconnect in

communication, then we're always going to be dissatisfied. So people have been saying, especially since dating apps have been putting a lot of the features behind the paywall, because guess what? It costs money to run an app. Yeah, guess what? It's all about the money. It is. It is.

Is it about love? It's not funny or something. It's only for love or money. I thought they're designed to be deleted. they're like you know what we'll tell them tell them we want them to delete it that'll get them it's reverse psychology but you know and like I met my husband online it's how the majority of my clients have met online but I'm not I go in eyes wide open like I realize that dating apps are a tool and you can use a tool correctly or you can use it the wrong way like I'm not really into

construction don't tell your friend next door I can barely change a tire I feel you but I know that if I'm going to hang up a picture on your wall and I am using a saw to try and get a nail into the wall, I'm going to be like, you know what, this sucks. Nails don't work. Saws don't work. This is a waste of my time. If I get a hammer,

then I'm going to go, oh, you know what? Actually, this was really easy. So that's what's happening. People are using dating apps like a saw. Do you think that people's behavior is worse today in the world? Men and women, like what's causing this like burnout? Yeah, people's behavior is worse. overall, not just in dating, but because of communication shifting to digital so dramatically

in the last 10 years. I think that is really at the source of our disconnect. So we want to blame dating apps, really. It's much more about texting. It's much more about social media and how we are all craving connection, but not really present. We're just going from one distraction to the next. I mean, it can go back to hurt people, hurt people. Like, frustrated, cynical people that feel the disconnect may project that onto someone they're talking to on an app or someone they're on a date with. Like, we all have this underlying thing that's probably just getting in the way. Like, if you're feeling that type of way, like you said, this collective disconnect, you're not going to show up as your best self to a date. Of course not.

And it's nobody's fault. I mean, we're looking for who to blame. It's the dating app's fault. It's TikTok's fault. It's, you know, who's fault? Someone just tell me who's fault. Right. Who can I get mad at?

Right. And ultimately. What CEO of a dating app can I drag on Twitter? Right. And you can do that, but do you feel better doing it? Right. Exactly. And ultimately, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is. The question is, are you going to accept that? Do you want to feel that way? Or do you want to change how you feel? Because you can change your relationship to technology. You can change your relationship to dating apps. you can change the way that you show up on dates. All of that is within your control.

Of course, I can't control the outcome. Like, I can't promise you. You read out the fairy tale. You're going to meet your Prince Charming and everything is going to work out perfectly. But I can arm you with the right tools to make it less stressful. I think it's really important. I'd love to reframe things all the time, right? Even like on a very small level, like I'll go on a date with somebody and I'll talk to Ashley about it afterwards.

And I'll say this person said this thing. And between the two of us, we're like, well, maybe this is where they were really coming from. In the moment when I have a conversation, I've had a few drinks, something might piss me off. But like, if you zoom out and you're like, but this is what this person's life experience was. This is why they brought their own thoughts and beliefs to this conversation. You know what I mean? I have a core belief, which not everyone shares. I really believe that people are doing their best.

I think people are always doing the best they have with the tools they have, with the knowledge they have with where they're at. And I find that helps me move through the world because, you know, you're going to, you're going to encounter a lot of frustrating people, frustrating situations. And if you just step back and say, kind of like you were saying, okay, they're doing their best. Maybe it's not the best for me. Maybe it's not my best. Yeah. It's not my best. Yeah. You're not up to my standards. But it gives you a little bit of distance from it, right? So that you can then say, okay, not right for me. But I don't necessarily need to become involved in this. Like, I can walk away. Yeah. Okay. So, The habits and beliefs that set us up for failure are those tied into the myths as well?

Can we kind of talk about how we rewrite the dating myths and live your own love story? Oh, thank you. Yes, it's definitely tied into the myths. So what I did when I sat down to write this book was identify the limiting beliefs, these stories that seemed to trip up my clients in each phase of the dating process. I really look at dating as this continuum from I used to say predate to pre-marriage, but now so many of my clients are like, you know, F marriage.

I don't know. Okay, that's fine. Whatever you want from predate to commitment. To commitment, right? And the first thing that always trip people up was in the mindset phase. Because when I am coaching someone in dating, we don't just start with like, let's create your dating profile and put you out there. I start with, wait, how are you thinking about dating?

What are some of these stories that you're repeating? What are these beliefs? that you have about what it's supposed to look like, what it's supposed to feel like, and get really clear on both what you're looking for and then what you have to offer in the relationship. And then also to take stock of these predominant thoughts. I know you've talked about this on the show before too. Like, what are you saying to yourself about dating? And how can you start with rewriting the thoughts that are in your own mind? Before you even begin writing the story with somebody else in it. Let's get the narrator under control here. Yeah. Let's get a reliable

narrator in place. I love that. So the myth that I saw associated with that phase, I call it the list myth. So I would always start with, okay, well, what are you looking for? And I would either hear, well, I don't know. I'll know it when I see it. And in most cases, I'm like, well, you haven't seen it. So are you really going to know?

No, let's get really clear on what goes on that list. And many times that list I would get was literally carbon copy, like from this person or this person, this person, this person that's the same list. What was on the list? Like superficial stuff? He's tall. He makes money. Certain jobs? Yeah, he's tall. He didn't make money. He went to this school. He has this education. He lives in this five-mile radius of my house. Or, you know, in New York, he lives in the same borough that I'm in. Like, no bridges or tunnels. And that sometimes is relevant,

but sometimes when you unpack it and you start asking, well, why is that on the list? you may realize that this is actually connected to a story that has nothing to do with you. It's a rom-com you watch. It's a fairy tale you heard. It's a TikTok. It's definitely TikTok. It's, you know, your family of origin. It's your relationship role models. It's your prior relationships. And we are attracted to familiarity. Oh, that's a story that I know. That's a story that I know, like your friend. I know the volatile story. That's familiar to me. So that is what I'm looking for. I'm subconsciously recreating that scenario based on the criteria I'm searching on.

So I'm not saying don't have a list. I'm saying let's peek underneath it and see what is really at the root of all of these things that you say you must have to move into a relationship. Well, I'm loving all these TikToks that break down. I'm looking for a man in finance because it's like when they have all these data scientists break it down, it's like you're looking for 0.001% of the population. Right. Yeah. I just really love what you said about you're going to think you want what's familiar, and you could be wrong.

I always say the quote, it may not look like what you thought it was going to look like. I mean, I think you move through the world. You meet people of different backgrounds, cultures, all the things that you may not have been exposed to before. And that helps too. Exposure to the world and other types of people. So you don't just have that list and that script in your head of like, no, it's going to be this type of guy that I've thought about since I was in middle school.

and that's what I'm looking for. Right. That's the familiarity. And I talk about this in the book that I wrote an article a few years ago. Back in 2020, in June of 2020, I don't know if you remember what was going on back then

where there were kind of major things happening in the U.S. around race. And so I wrote an article about unpacking the list in your dating preferences because I think we also hide a lot of our own biases behind these preferences,

whether it's race or height or education. And if you peel the layers back on that, you might find that there's a belief there that you don't even really hold. But that's just been passed down to you or because, well, I've never dated someone of that race because I didn't have anyone in my neighborhood that was of that background. But because of dating apps and because of social media, our dating pools have expanded exponentially. So we need some criteria by which to sort through all of those options. And that's where a lot of the dating disconnect and overwhelm comes from too. But we need to really look at, well, what is that criteria? The why.

I love that you said that. I think about that sometimes because my boyfriend's Indian and I never dated an Indian person before him. I dated white guys, black guys. You know, it was just, it was people of color. But I guess I didn't grow up with a lot of Indian people. So I guess I could say it was a little unfamiliar. But like what about it is unfamiliar? Just it looks, culture, whatever. But for me, I was just like, oh, this is interesting that I would end up with a person that was like the first type of person like that that I've ever dated at 39, you know? And when you're open, like some of those numbers get expanded. So it's the layering of like, I want a finance guy and he needs to be six feet tall and he needs to also live here and he needs

to also have this religion or race. Body type. And body type. That's what starts to limit your cool. But if you lift some of those factors, like, I'm sure your boyfriend has a lot of the qualities that you were looking for. Otherwise, right? Your whole list. And it may just be like lifting that one belief around, oh, I just, I hadn't considered it before. I hadn't considered dating somebody who was Indian before. Well, I hadn't not. He was just the first one. Right. You know. And I don't want to downplay. As somebody who's also from a multicultural background in my sister-in-law is Indian, my stepmother is Mexican-American. I really feel like my life is enhanced by having people of all different cultures in my life. Yeah. Not everyone believes that,

but, you know, I feel like for me, works for me. But there are challenges, certainly, like growing up black and Jewish. There was a lot of, yeah, I know, I'm like the oppression stew here. But there was a lot to grapple with in having parents that came from two very different. different worlds. And there are certainly similarities between those worlds, but they're very different. And I know that you encounter all of these new things and these, I look at them as really like life lesson opportunities. So it's not always easy when you date somebody that's different from what you have looked for on your list or who you've dated in the past. But I think that relationships are our greatest teachers. And totally. I think that the discovery in that is

really exciting. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just unfamiliarity. And, lack of exposure for some people. Yeah. And that stuff is important. Plus, let me tell you, Thanksgiving dinner is like, so boss now. It sounds fun. Honestly, I was like, what is cooking like in this family? Oh, my God.

You know what I think is really, oh my gosh. When his little turkey. Oh, yeah, his Thanksgiving. I'm like, give me that chicken ticket. Can we go this year? Yeah, we should go. Oh, we forgot. Can we go?

It's just like, the food that they make, it's just better than anything you ever have. You know, they just like whipped it up, you know? Like, I had lunch with it. his parents. I was like, I feel like they thought I was lying. I was like, this is the best meal I've ever had. They're like, okay, relax. You don't need to overcompensate. I'm like, don't be it serious. Anushka's baby shower. Our friends' parents are also, they're Indian and their parents are India. And they just like whipped it up. It was amazing. I think that's something that's something that's hard to let go of and it has been easy for us is somebody with an education. I think

that like my parents were like people with educations are successful. People with education make money. You need to get an education. It's very important to Jewish people to get an education, send your kids to college. I don't care at all if somebody has an education. I think there's not one route to success, especially today. But I went out of date the other night. The first thing my dad said to me was, where did you go to college? And I was like, and I go, I don't, I never even asked if he went to college. It never crossed my mind. But I think that's a generational thing. And I think that people have this notion of like a certain type of education and that's the kind of man I want. And for me, I just don't care at all. Well, so much of this is chasing,

safety, right? Sure. So being also from a Jewish background, like my grandparents immigrated here with nothing. And so they were told you get an education, you work your way up. And through your education, that is your ticket to safety, security, and a good life. It used to be more so also, right? Like today there's so many more avenues to success. That's exactly my point, that that is a remnant of a time.

It was true then. but it's no longer true. It is not, yeah. And, you know, Mark Zuckerberg never finished Harvard. Nice Jewish boy never finished Harvard. But at least he went, you know. Aren't we all looking for a Harvard dropout? I'm looking at you could have gotten into Harvard.

That's really my, that's my bar. That couldn't be me. Okay, so the list, that is the first myth. Can we move to the second? That's the rules myth. Okay. We love rules. Everybody's like, tell me, what's the hack?

What's the rule? Just tell me how to do it, Demona. Four roles for, yeah. Yeah. I know. And I would love to do that. But it's so much more nuanced than that. Oh, yeah.

Right. Some of that's just like designed to go viral. You know, a lot of dating content out there is just like packaged in a way that's not really accurate to a human experience. Yeah. And even beyond the dating content, like, you know, the book, the rules, that was written like 30 years ago, you know. But some people are still playing by rules like that. Like, oh, well, you can't make the first move or you can't call them. And I'm interested in a much more dynamic approach to dating in that you write your own rules through the experiences that you go through.

You figure out what's okay for you, like what you can tolerate and what you don't. So similar to the list myth, we need to examine these rules and like, well, where does that come from? What did I say that I had this rule or why do I have to wait to contact this person or why do I need them to text me in the morning, good morning? Like, good morning, beautiful text. Like, why do I need that? What am I getting from that? And really examine what rules still apply to your life today. Do you differentiate between like rules and boundaries?

Ooh, that's a good question. I definitely do. I think when we talk about rules, we're talking about, again, all this stuff that we have been told. If he doesn't do this, it's a red flag or it's not going to work out. And these things are true. And we're like abiding by them as if they are. Rules to me feel like one size fits everybody. do this thing and it's like but my life experience is different than yours boundaries feel like

just a one-size-fits one to me there's things that like would really bother me that wouldn't bother her and you know vice versa yeah and i think it's really important to get down to what does really matter the one-size-it-all rules we agree they don't necessarily matter but what i offered in the book are these pillars that i do see adding up to consistently successful long-term relationships so with the list myth, it's clarifying relationship goals. I mean, how many times you get down the road with somebody and then you're like, oh, I thought this meant something totally different. And then when we get to the rules myth, we need to look at values.

And that's where I think the boundaries that you're talking about comes in. And you design your own rules and your own sort of code of conduct based on what is important to you, what you value and how you look at the world. Okay. I like the differentiation between the two, like lists and goals, like what's on my list versus what am I trying to get at and rules versus values. I like that a lot. And we're going to talk about the four pillars. Let's move on to the chemistry myth. I love talking about stuff like that. I know. I was like, I want to get your take on the chemistry myth. Let's do it. I don't believe in chemistry. I think not in. That's the chapter actually. It's one sentence.

The end. I think that chemistry really builds over time. But. we're looking for the spark. You know, you've talked about this on the show before. Because of these damn fairy tales and rom-coms, we're like, it's supposed to feel like this on the first date. And what I suggest in the book is that we all practice slow love. Slow it down. Because you can't really feel how you feel in the relationship

when you're caught up in momentum. And you're just like, oh, I love the way they look the first time. I wanted to tear his clothes off the first time I met him. And it doesn't give you room to grow into the relationship. I think the chemistry really builds in between interactions, and that builds over time. There's nothing for us in this chasing chemistry. We need to really put that aside and get to what actually it matters. And that's really communication when we were talking about earlier, like clarifying communication.

That's how you can really connect with someone and see what's deeper. because it's like I've been married 17 years. Like you don't get to 17 years of marriage based on chemistry. He's hot. You know? Yeah. I also want to tie back to something you said early on where you're asking someone what they're looking for and they might say something along the lines if I know it when I'll see it.

And what they mean there is I know it when I'll feel that initial spark, which also is not accurate. So if you're just out there in the world, like I'll know it when I feel that fairy tale spark, you're never going to find it. I mean, you might. But we've also said that sometimes those people that make you feel like that, the moment you meet them, it can be just too much charm or it can be narcissism sometimes. Everybody feels like that about them. You know, like that's what they're doing every person they meet.

So that's a whole separate conversation. But yes, this whole thing. I mean, we talk about Logan, like you said, this fuck the spark. It's just like you can't rely on that. I mean, I feel like Raina and I both, the long-term relationships we've been in, the ones that really worked out or are still working out. we're not this like immediate love at first sight you know it's the feeling of like I like this person I want to see them again I always say that if you just think you want to see them again just go for it

that's like the one underlying feeling to me is just like that I had a good time I'd see him again yeah I say be led by curiosity and that curiosity is an endless well you know that's what gets you to this place with your partner that's what gets me through 17 years of marriage and hopefully many, many more. I'm still curious. I love that. I'm still curious. And that was really how I felt on the first date. I was just like, I don't know if this guy's going to be my husband, but I'm like, gosh, I just want to spend more time with him. I want to know how his brain works. Exactly that. I'm going to give your listeners like a big flip on how they're thinking about first dates. We want to keep that first date short and sweet. We think that if we stay with this person, the chemistry

will build and we won't lose this moment. But I find that when you leave the date feeling like it's ending in the middle, it's to be continued. It's like, it's like, you know, we're writing our love stories. It's like that page turner in the next chapter can be saved for the next time. And you have that, that feeling of anticipation. That feeling of anticipation is really important to continue. That's when, when you hear people that are bored in relationships, they've lost that. anticipation. Yeah, and maybe some of the physical chemistry too. But I continue to bring that anticipation to my relationship every day. And that curiosity is really what fuels the future. I just, I love the notion of leave people wanting a little bit more, you know, and people will get

to know you over time. You don't have to give them everything right in the beginning. Ashley's in a long-term relationship. And you're always like looking forward to the next time and seeing him. And I've really enjoyed long-distance relationships as well. You do. There's that anticipation. the patient's fun. Oh, you meant long distance. What did I say long term? Long term. Yeah, I meant like this tense. Oh, yeah. Listen, I don't think it's some sort of red flag if you have chemistry upon meeting someone for the first time. You know, like when I also kind of run the tape with my current partner or my ex, like we were going back and forth, we're bantering. We're really feeling each other that first time too. This isn't, we're not telling people that you should have like a dud of a first date and be like,

what? Should I see that again? You know, like, I do think there's something to be said for, yes, being attracted to somebody, you know, they touch you and you feel like that electricity. So it's it's not that either. I just also want to be clear. I think we all agree on that, you know, but it's just this magical fairy tale spark that people may be looking for that could be hurting you in the long run. It's definitely hurting you because you're chasing that feeling. Right. Versus being present in the moment and feeling that connection. Sounds like that's what you felt. You felt that connection. with that person. Yeah.

And that's why I'm talking an hour to an hour and a half tops on the first date, leave them wanting more. And then you can also see how you feel. We are conditioned to want to get chose when we're really doing the choosing. And if we can see that in between that space, between when you say, okay, nice to meet you, maybe you say I'd like to see you again, and them asking you out again or you initiating another date, which we can also talk about gender roles and how,

not a big believer in that either. But that space in between and how you feel in between seeing the person, that is really informative as well. Nick Vile, I was listening to him last night. I was like, which one of us is going to bring you? Are you going to a quote of? Are you going to, the sex? Men fall in love because of missing you?

Yes. So he said men don't fall in love from having sex. They fall in love for missing you. And again, we're coming down the road of falling in love. This isn't post-first date. Well, you never know. But I mean, he's not wrong. No guy has ever really been like, gosh, the sex. I love her.

You know, it's that pining feeling of, like you said, leaving someone wanting more. Oh, I'd never heard him say that. But I love it. Yeah, I clocked it immediately. Oh, you heard him say it before? Yeah. I was like, which one was going to say? You're the bigger stand.

I'm a big stand of Nickville. Oh, I'm sorry. I said it. I should let you say it. No, I was like, which one I was going to say it. I know it's going to come up. I really have been thinking about this a lot lately because I've been going out with so many people. And I had this experience, and Ashley and Tess have heard this.

But I went out with this guy and he told me he doesn't like sports or comedy. And I was like, oh, that's disgusting. What you just said to me is disgusting. I'm not like such an athlete, but like in my mind, I like a guy that wants to spend Sunday. We like sweatpants watching football with me. And comedy is a big part of my life. All my friends are comedians. We're entertainers.

And I was like, sports, what are they going to talk to our dads? about my dad will never talk to you. No, like my, what are you going to talk to my dad about or my brother? Get out of here. It's all like sports. My brother and dad are like lifelong athletes. You're out with my family, you know? But I was like, that's disgusting.

Ew. And I was like, I'm so out on this. And then I was recapping the date to another guy who I'm friends with now but have had feelings for in the past. And I was like, he told me he doesn't like sports or comedy. And he was like, Raina, I don't like either of those things at all. You're obsessed with me. And I had this moment where I,

just was like, I guess I've taken three years to get to know this person. And I am like crazy about him. He's one of my closest friends. But like if I write somebody off that moment because they don't have these like couple things I've subscribed to needing, then like what a disservice you're doing to yourself. Because you could spend a little more time to get to know somebody. And if I didn't like anything else about this person, I wouldn't go out with him again. But if I enjoy talking to him, then I guess I've just been like having some inner conversations to myself about writing people off too soon. Yeah. That story took a turn. I've been thinking about it a lot. I thought we really.

like, ew, anyone who doesn't like comedy in sports. No, I like what she's. I like the father. She's a ballion. She's a ball and right before our eyes. I've been thinking about it. No, I like the conversation. I've been thinking about it. Listen, also, the other guy I'm talking about who doesn't like sports does like extreme sports

competitions. So I was like, you don't need to like sports if you're doing like mountain biking competitions. Oh, he's super active. Yeah. Yeah, he's just not like. She's turned out too. That would scare me. That would scare me.

That would scare me. But I would say that we chase also these, these moments of connection. And we. think we're looking for kind of our mirror image. Yeah. They must like the things that we like. We must have all the same interests. And studies have shown that you actually really only need about two interests in common

with the other person. The values are really more important. That's why I led with that pillar. Yeah. The interest, it's like, it's sort of window dressing. It's like that would be nice. But as long as you have enough where you can connect on a few things, then if the values are aligned, and the goals are aligned, that's much more important.

But we all really feel a connection when there's this sense of familiarity. And so a lot of that chemistry and the spark is also our bodies recognizing a commonality. So in that moment for you, it's like you're computing, like sports, comedy, nope, not a commonality. Right. I'm picturing like the dating game.

He's like, Bachelor number two. But I think about lifestyle versus hobby. is in Ashley and I've talked about this in the show. Like, how do I want to live my life? Like, comedy is such a big part of it. Like, obviously I play sports. No, I'm just kidding. But I do think there's a difference between a big basketball player.

I think there's a big difference. Right on the Celtics. You guys didn't know. I used to play basketball like in high school and middle school, like just like a wreck. Like my dad was like, it was humiliating to watch. Oh, no. Yeah, but I'm also like 510 and I played basketball and I was the worst player. My talent's ever seen.

Yes, I was a JV Jr. I was like never scored. I was just stayed on the bed. Oh, you did? I would be like on the court just like talking to the other kids. Okay. I'm terrible of sports. Terrible of sports.

And also I have no interest in sports. But my husband really interested in sports. And what ended up happening was like he was in these, all these fantasy football leagues. He wanted to spend six hours watching football on Sunday. And I was like, you know what? That's great. Because I want to spend six hours going to yoga and brunch. with my friends. I know, like so basic bitch.

No, that's exactly what I did. That's how I wanted to spend my day. And so what I needed was not necessarily somebody, and believe me, I tried to bring him to yoga. It's not happening. I've given up the ghost on that. It's okay. But I needed somebody that understood my lifestyle, like you were saying, and gave me the space to still be who I was. And so we have to really think about this, not in terms of, I want somebody that's already going to do all the things that I'm going to do, you want somebody who's going to do some of the things you're going to do. Totally. You want somebody who's going to

give you the space to still be you and pursue the lifestyle that you're already living. To be entertained while you're doing your stuff. Well, I love that though, because I think it's really important where you align the things you want to do. Like when you travel and stuff, the type of restaurants you want to go to your morning habit, you know, like do you want to go out and get coffee? You want to take a walk on the beach. Like those things I think are important. But I would never want my partner to go to yoga with me. You know, like I'm just, we don't have to do all the same stuff. You're more evolved than I. I was like, please try yoga. And then I'm like, oh, those hamstrings ain't going to cut it. But we're on the same page in that you don't need to do the same thing together all the time.

You don't need to be in all the same leagues and all the same activities, you know, but I like that we like to do the same things day to day. You know, like we're not fighting over what should we do. We enjoy the same things out of life. But separately, he is interests that I don't share and vice versa. You guys have really similar values. Very similar in terms of like what is really important to you and family and friends. And I see a lot of similarities. But I think having separate interest is like so important. That's like what I always say about my parents who have been married for 40 plus years.

It's just like you got to do some different stuff so you can go back to your partner and have stuff to talk about. And like you said, stay curious about the other person. Like if you're just living the exact same mirrored life with your partner, I think that doesn't really lend itself to. I mean, any sort of like excitement or curiosity. or longevity. Yeah. And you also need to maintain the parts of you that you were before the relationship, right? I mean, how many times have we had a friend that I'm like asking for a friend?

I've never done this, obviously. But, you know, people sometimes get lost in relation to their partner. Yeah. And get just lost in relationships where it's like they always want to be available to their partner and they do everything that their partner does. And suddenly they've disappeared from the relationship with you, their friends, their community. And those relationships, you know, the average friendship lasts much longer than the average relationship.

So it's also important, you know, I'm a little bit of a relationship anarchist, not Polly. If you're into that, that's fine too. But I believe in having multiple people in your life that, that you're, you know, that you. that you value, that bring different elements to your world. Yeah. Your other significant others. Like Logan said too. Okay, we have one more.

I can't wait to get into this one. The soulmate met. Do you believe in soulmates, Ashley? I believe in maybe having multiple. I believe that there's not one person on the earth that is met for you. That's the only person you could work with forever. What about you, Raina? Fuck no.

I mean, I think that. So no, I guess not. I think about all the relationships that I've had and the different people I've been in love with and people that made me really happy at different points in my life that wouldn't make me happy today. Does that make them not my soulmate? I don't know. Like they served a time and a place and they were great for the time being and they made me really, really happy and they were wonderful to me, all the things. But like, I think so many people can make you happy and they can serve different needs and it depends also where you are in your life. Like Ashley is also my soulmate and

I get so much from her and I feel like I always have like companionship and insuffe. And insight and I have like a business partner or life partner and I probably needed different things from a partner 12 years ago 10 years or than I need today because now I have this like business soulmate and I go to her all the time for advice and what are we going to do and I think maybe when I was a little bit younger, my early 20s I might have been attracted to a man that could have given me more professional guidance and career growth and things like that but I don't gravitate towards that today. So I guess it's a very long answer. It's hard to answer because I mean it's also how you define it. What I don't believe is that there's one person in the world that you could marry and

you know, die with together in the same bed like the notebook and you have to find them. That's what I don't believe. But I mean, my partner now, I'm like, that's my person. I think we both feel like, thank God I found you. Like you're the person for me. I can't imagine being with anyone else. But I still don't believe that like in the whole world we like cosmically got put. I don't know. It feels limiting. It feels limiting for sure. And I think that. again, we have people like Raina said, Raina's my soulmate too. Just, you know, we're on a different level.

We just don't have sex. It's the only thing makes this different than romantic partners. I mean, I was engaged to somebody that I, at the time, would have said that's the love of my life. Even today, the person I've loved the most in my life, like the person I've been the most in love with. But I saw him in the last year and I was like,

oh, we're not going to date. Like, I wouldn't do that with you. Well, and then I kind of believe in a twin flame as well, you know, like someone that... You do believe in it? Kind of. I mean, I think you have that person. that, or not, it's not some necessity in life, but I think we have a person that burned really

bright and taught us something. Isn't that kind of what they say? It's usually didn't end great. I understand the definition of it. Yeah. Traditionally, the twin flame is like, you are two halves of the same soul. And like, that's that, yeah. Maybe I don't. Maybe I had it wrong. And that's really the core of the soulmate myth, which I break down in the book, like tracing it back to Greek mythology. Oh, okay. Where in, in, the myth, Zeus got mad at humans. They became too powerful. And they were these like four-legged creatures that were like male, female, female, female, and a mix of both. So he split them in half and was like, now you have to go on the search for your other half. Oh. That's really the core of

the soulmate myth. And then it just got repeated and repeated and changed in different iterations. But it's that, that's the search, that never-ending search for your other half. That is the kind of soulmate that I do not believe exists. I think it's just a story. You complete me thing. But like 70% of people believe in soulmates. Tessa, do you believe in soulmates? You complete me. Not a singular purchase. Yeah. I think that we are all. This is good. As a group, we are all leveling up because I find that as you said, Raina, that's very limiting. And this idea that there's one person that you're looking for on a planet with eight billion people. It sets you up for this never-ending search like you're crawling around the earth trying to find your other...

But it goes back to the chemistry. Because if you believe in the soulmate thing, then you believe they're going to make you feel a certain type of way the second you meet them. So those things tie in. Like if you have bought into it and you really think that's what it is, this person was designed for you, whatever God you believe in,

put them on the earth for you and they're going to complete you and they're your other half. Then you would think that when you meet them, you're going to feel this special type of way because, oh my God, that's my soulmate. So those almost go hand in hand. You know, like if you really have bought into the soulmate myth, you are not buying into the chemistry grows over time. Right.

Well, you're also not buying into this idea that you have to take action to make the soulmate happen. Right. If it was a soulmate, it would just like magically work out. It's magically appear. That's my soulmate. I feel like if I feel that spark on a first hand, I'm like, this is so much chemistry. I'm just horny. This is a red flag.

It's a horny. Right. I'm just horny. Both things can. be true. Is he my soulmate or am I horny? That's very like, do I like a mercy tall? It's the new. Am I just horny? Like sometimes like I'll, like I wanted a date recently.

Well, I made it into a date. And I don't know that he was so great. I keep telling Ashley I'm in love with him. But he just was exceptionally hot. I don't even know what he said. Who cares? Exactly. I was just like, that's my soulmate. But like he really is just like six to with salt and pepper hair. Like he's tattoos. Tons of tattoos. Yeah. Facial hair. So hot. So cute. And I was just, I was horny. Right. You're a warning for him. Exactly. And then what happened? And then what happened? And I've masturbated to him all week. Oh my God. Yeah. So different people come into your lives for different reasons and at different times. Maybe that was his reason. And we have to be willing to allow that to exist. Because we also get then caught in this idea of the soulmate of like, oh, the one that got away. And then we're constantly comparing the people that we meet to the quote, soulmate that we missed out on. And if they were your soulmate, they would be with you right now.

Yeah, exactly. I love that. So let's talk about the pillar, the opposite pillar of this, which is trust. So the antidote to falling in love with the soulmate myth is the pillar of trust. And this is where slow love comes back in. You can't know if you trust someone when you first meet them. You have to see how their actions and their words align over time. You have to really build that.

So I made this the last pillar because it really takes the time to go through this whole dating process to get to that point. And I love that feeling of trust in a relationship. When I feel it myself and when I see it in my clients, that you can just relax all this dating anxiety. We've been talking about the dating burnout and know that like, oh, I'm not on the hunt anymore. Like I'm not in that search space. So what else does that open up for me if I don't have to be worried about how this person is going to show up for me in my life? I love that. Like that it does build over time.

I always think about our business managers. Like we first started meeting with them. We would say like even just a throwaway. Like we trust you. And they'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't want you to trust us yet. Like that was kind of their selling. You're like, why should I not trust you? Hold on a second.

They were just like we want to earn it. I don't know. It's very, very different. But I sometimes think of them being like, we're managing your money. that's a huge thing, you know, and it's not the same as... It couldn't be more clear. Don't trust us. Shut up.

They were very just like, we want to earn it. You shouldn't be walking in here, giving us access to like all your money and your financials and be like, we trust you completely. Like, I don't know. It's different, but like trust is earned. You know, I think our relationship, we started this and we were both just like vetting each other kind of side eye like, I trust her. You know, like it wasn't day one.

Like I trust you. Let's share a bank account. No, I was like, we were waiting for the other person to slip up. Like, when we interview people today, like, we always say, like, we have to be able to trust that, like, when you say you're going to do a thing, it will be done, it'll be done correctly. Because that is, like, the core pillar of our relationship. Like, if I say I'm going to do something, like, she has to be able to, like, know that it's going to be done. I said I was going to do something the other day.

I fucked up twice. But that's very rare it happens, like once a year. And you owned it, right? Oh, God. Yeah. She was like, I'm hi, okay. Which is in integrity. Yeah.

But I mean, I think trust, it's make or break because it's the break of the relationship too. I think back to my ex and like the core of all of our issues. I mean, there was a lot. But it was that I just stopped trusting him to be an adult, you know, show up, get up on time and be somewhere that we were supposed to be or whatever it was. Like when I really think of like the very core thing, it was that over time I lost trust in him for a multitude of different areas of the relationship. And that was it. that's what I would attribute it too. Yeah.

Yeah. And I talk and at the fairy tale about how hard trust is to rebuild once it's broken. So it takes a long time to build. And then if it's broken, it's almost like you start back from before. Because when you're starting at the beginning of the relationship, you're like, I want this person to show up for me. I'm willing to suspend my judgment long enough to see, like, can they show up? And then once the trust is broken, it's like, well,

I already know that they haven't in the past. So now they have to work twice as hard to get me back to that place where we began. It's really hard for me to come back from it. Can we just do one last thing, the misconception of opposites attract? Yeah, people always say to me, opposites attract. And I think that that's not like one of the big four myths, but it's like a micro myth. A micro myth. Oh, I just coined a new term.

I love that. It's a micro myth. Because I think that when we say opposites attract, we're not actually looking at the right factors. We're thinking it's about, well, this person likes sports and I don't like sports. So we're opposites or like the Paula Abdul song. Yeah. I go to bed early and he goes, yeah. parties all night.

Yeah. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about values. That's really the core attractor. And so when you look at the surface level things, someone might be opposite. Somebody might be a different culture. They might have different interests. but if you look at the values, those must be aligned. Totally.

It cannot be opposite in values. And this is why I think we're seeing a bigger divide, a political divide, election here. And, you know, it used to be you could date somebody who was across the aisle. Right. You could still communicate. No more.

No more. No more. Yeah. Yeah. And so we are seeing some relationships of moderates with liberals or conservative, but not on either. end of the spectrum because it means a certain set of values.

You could. And as a woman, I mean, you're just like, you don't believe in my rights. Yeah, we've associated a whole set of values with the political belief. And so we're constantly looking for ways to shortcut. That's what all of this is about. Yes. The list, the rules, the chemistry, the soulmate. It's like, just give me, give me the code.

Give me the short code. And that will tell me, is this person meant to be, can I trust them? Can we communicate? do we have the same values? Do we have the same goals for the future? And I think we need to just reframe our experience of dating to realize that the whole of dating is the process of discovering that. There is no shortcut. Sorry, everybody. There's no shortcut. There's no shortcut. But if you can find joy and self-discovery in the dating experience, it's going to make the road a lot easier and make the payoff a lot better. The way you wrapped up this episode. I know. Wow.

That was perfect. Okay. Singing. There hasn't been dancing yet. Yeah. It could have been out for the next book. People are like, wait, who's Paul Abdul? I know right.

The way I had that tape. Obviously, the distraction was track two. We went back down memory lane. I love it. Okay. Well, Demona, this was delightful. We're so glad we got to make it happen. I was thrilled.

Can you tell everybody where to find you? Your website's great. Your Instagram is fantastic. Obviously the book. Thank you. Yeah. Instagram, TikTok, those places at DeMona Hoffman. And I do the dates and mates podcast every Tuesday. So yeah, wherever you're listening right now to Girls Gotta Eat. Okay. Here dates and mates. Okay. Great. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gottaeat.com for tour tickets, episodes, all the things that you need. We are Girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok.

I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Raina.org. Our other company, Vives only. Vives only.com. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. Get to Mona's book. And we will. We will see you Thursday. After tripping me up, have a good couple days, guys. Okay, bye.