Girls Gotta Eat - Hacks for Deeper Relationships, Enjoyable Career, and Fulfilling Life with Liz Moody

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

We loved chatting with wellness journalist and podcaster Liz Moody, and you do not want to miss this jam-packed episode of insightful and actionable advice on life, love, and career. Liz shares her story of having so much anxiety she couldn't leave the house, and how she overcame it with evidence-based, small steps. We discuss how to have deeper relationships with friends and romantic partners – the conversations you have (and how to level them up), what you share about yourself and how it connects you to people, how to actually be there for a friend in need, and the concept of "bidding" and how it strengthens a partnership. Liz defines and explains "psychological richness" and how to have and recognize this in your own life and in others', and we discuss what we think is going to make us happy vs. what actually makes us happy and why people aren't fulfilled when they achieve "the thing." We also talk about the things that drain your energy, actions to improve your energy, and tips for cutting back on scrolling. Before Liz joins us, Ashley pops off about a shirt she is sick of seeing, Rayna was traumatized taking out the trash, and we break down a shocking cheating email from a listener. Enjoy! Follow Liz Moody on Instagram @lizmoody and listen to The Liz Moody Podcast. Follow us @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Julie Care: Find Julie at CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Target, Amazon and GoPuff across all 50 states. No age restrictions and no ID required, ever. Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. Skims: Get our favorite bras and underwear at https://skims.com/gge. Hungry Root: Get 40% off your first box and free item in every box for life at https://hungryroot.com/GGE with code GGE. Ollie: Get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe at http://ollie.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think that we're always trying to grow and evolve and change ourselves. And yet we don't often create the space for the people that we love the most to do that as well. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys. Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back. So as of today, we will be back from two of your bachelor's parties.

Yeah, we'll recap it next week. We're about to head out. If I seem irritable today, it's because I'm wearing a body suit. You're wearing a body suit. What a throwback. I bought this body suit before I really retired them. I feel like I'm taking after you. You said you were out on them and I was like, what?

And I'm like, I can't feel like this anymore. I got into crops and I've just, I've been enjoying that crop life. No one loves a crop top more than me. Like I wear a bra top, but like I really liked this. But perfect talk. I really feel like that Victoria Ratcliffe quote where I'm just not meant to live an uncomfortable life.

And that's how I feel in a body suit. Why is this in my labia and my butt crack? Do you feel hyper aware that your shirt is in your butthole? Yeah, it's just, it's just the discomfort. And I'm not trying to live this life anymore. And I have so many. And I was going through some outfits for some different shows with Lillian. She's been helping me.

And I was like, God, my like red bodysuit from the holiday shows last year. That one is just so tight. That's a vaginathong. So when we were in Denver for your shows, I wore a. red strapless body suit to do sets. Well, I have the same body suit, and nothing is tighter on your futa than that bodysuit. I don't know what it is about it.

I could never wear it. I'd just send it back. Yeah, that was the biggest tire I've ever walked around with. It is slicing into your thigh meat. Yes, and I had no sleeves either. It was strapless, and so I was just like, my shirt was hanging on by a wish and a prayer on that stage. And I recently ordered one that I really loved.

I saw it online. It was Alice and Olivia. I was like, I have to have the body suit. It's like pink and silky. I worked for this like TV thing recently. And I ordered it in a size up. And then I got it taken in just so I could have the panty be bigger down there. It's better that way.

But this one is not. You do be needed in a bigger panty. You're long. You've a long torso. I have a long vagina. You do. It's concerning. You have a big foobotwitwitw.

The length of my vagina is concerning to strangers. And a long butt crack. You've been saying that for you. I come from a long line, a long butt cracks. And I have, well, not that much anymore, but I used to have huge boobs. So I needed to have, I have these, like, little decups. Sometimes I'm just looking at the mirror. I've told you so many times to stop this.

It feels so offensive to me. I'm just a flat-titted nobody now with my decups. Anyway, guys, thank you to Julie Care. I'm sick of hearing about this. I've told her time it again. I'm going to get breasted by. I'm zero. Tits.

And I have to hear from you. Yeah, but it suits your nice body, long legs. That's not your thing. Booms aren't your thing. Boves were always my thing. I don't have a thing anymore. All right, fine. Yeah, abs and legs.

And crepey skin. Okay, okay. No, I think I look great. Anyways, we both look great. I love your long butt crack in my small boobs. Okay, anyways, they're going to care about this. Julie, care. All right, we're going to thank our partners,

and then we're going to jump right in. Thanks to Julie, care. Girls, Girls, Everywhere can find Julie at CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Target, Amazon, and GoPuff across all 50 states, no age restrictions, and no ID required ever. And RocketMoney. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at rocketmoney.com slash GGE. And Skims get our favorite present underwear at skims.com slash GGE. And thank you to HungryRoot. Get 40% off your first box and a free item in every box for life at HungryRoot.com slash GGE with code GGE.

And thank you to Ollie. get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe at ollie.com slash gge. I have to tell you this thing. I had like a crazy fear factor moment this morning. It's going to make your skin crawl. So I woke up to take my own trash out because I don't have a man. I'm an independent woman. And I do it every morning.

The trash, they come really early. They come at like 6.45. So I get up at like 6.30. I go downstairs. I take it out. And I don't know why. I like wheeled my trash can out. I got distracted for something.

And I had my hand on like the trash can for. I don't, 20 seconds. And I realized something was like crawling up my arm. And I looked down and there was hundreds of ants on my hands and my arm. Like crawling upwards towards my chest. They just got on you that quick. I do not know how they did it. It was just crawling up my body.

I like freaked out. I like brushed it off. I did get in a shower at 6.45 in the morning, which you know I hate showers. Yeah. It's just like the worst time of day to take a shower. It was so horrifying. The ants from the studio followed you home. We saw ants in here yesterday.

I've been seeing a lot of ants. That's, you're going to take over your life. August, but August in L.A., what is happening? What does that have to do anything? I've just been seen in the lot. What's season? August in L.A., apparently. Well, I'll tell you what happened to me today and over the weekend.

Why have in the past three days, I have seen two men wearing shirts in giant letters that say, Who ate all the pussy? No, you didn't know. That's not a thing. So the first one being at our farmer's market on Saturday. day where there are children and families and this like 20 something kid was walking around with his like backwards hat and his like pants sagging and a giant sweatshirt that said who ate all the pussy giant letters taking up the entire hoodie the whole front of it yeah like you could see it

from miles away i spotted it from like all the way across the farmer's market he came over he sat down and like we have like a little live band and then the family families are all there and everybody's kind of having their coffees. We do it. Every Saturday is like my favorite part of the week. He's there amongst the children. Normal people on a set. Who ate all the pussy? This criminal. And I was like at what point is like free speech? Well, it's 2025. So, you know, that's on the way out. But like prior to this administration and when we really feel like we had free speech, like can your clothing be regulated? Like, you can't wear something that says like, I have a bomb on me. Like, because that's a threat. Like,

is it a threat? Is it a threat? Is the line? You could wear somebody. with a giant swastika on it. If you wanted to, you could wear a Confederate flag. If you wanted to. But like actual words, like the N word? I mean, can you walk around with whatever you want in your clothing? Why not? People say those things out loud.

You could do anything you want. But you can't start shouting certain things that's threatening. You can't start shouting it. You can't just go into Farmer's Market and be like, I'm going to kill everybody in here. You could get arrested for that. Because that is an actual threat. But can you wear a threat? I'm going to kill you.

Like, I don't know. If it's verbal versus a T-shirt, you just could argue it's less of a threat. But I want to know, what does it mean? Like, who ate all the pussy and, like, left no crumbs for me? Like, or is he like, that's me? Who? Like, I ate all. Like, on the pussy monster?

Yes. Yeah, it's kind of, to me, it's like, you cannot get pussy, sir. Like, looking at you. Like, to me, he's not threatening anybody. He's just, like, who ate all the pussy? And I would save me some. So that's not even the climax. So today I'm driving just 30 minutes ago,

about to turn on DeValance Boulevard from our studio. And there's like a man in the traffic in traffic, like standing in the middle of the two lanes of traffic, like acting erratic. And, you know, disheveled looking man. I just can assume he's of the streets. Venice. It's very venous.

And his back is to me and I'm like, I got to be careful. I don't want to run that man over. He's in between cars. He turns around giant sweatshirt, who ate all the pussy. Stoll it from that guy at the farmer's market. I said, how the fuck have I seen two who weighed all the pussy sweatshirts in two days?

And so I'm like, this is crazy. And I'm not going to take a picture of it and whatever. Like I was like, I'll just remember it. You got that mental picture. Rina, I'm like retramatized telling the story. I am at the stoplight and I looked out of my phone. I'm sending Anushka a text about Sonoma and Napa Hotel Rex. I look up, he is right there.

Rina, I screamed. Like framed in the window. In my window. Like anyone right at your window, even if you were right there. If you were, it would scare me. I scream. I go, ah! Like literally screamed at my car.

Who ate all the pussy in my window? He wanted to know. He was like, hi, ma'am. Like, that is, I started shaking. Just anyone when you're, like, you look up and they're at your car, I mean, oh my gosh. No, I'm like such a nerd. I'm the person that kind of like reaches slowly down to, like, lock the window. Always.

Anyone at your car. Do you remember this one time? This is one of the scariest moments of my life. Weren't we in Miami and we, we just hop, because I think about this sometime. Were we in Miami, we were in the car.

We were like, Merrill, I think, the three of us, we were leaving a dinner in Miami at the place with like the dancers and the, we sit at the bar

and then the dancers and the water features outside. Oh, it's upstairs. It's a rooftop in Miami. It's really popular. We had pasta for dessert. Remember the whole thing?

No, it's really popular. Yeah, yeah. It's like the most popular. Well, you guys get it. Remember we were in an Uber in like stop and go traffic it going down the main drag in Miami Beach and two people from both sides of the car lifted up

our door handles and opened our doors. Do you remember this? And I was like, this is it. It's a carjacket. It's happening. I've never felt so scared in my life and they just thought it was their Uber and that was it. But I, that feeling of just like, oh my God, I know. Someone's at my car. Like it's happening. I'm always disappointed when those things happen because, well, other than like the sheer fear. I know how I would act in an emergency and it's not well. Yeah, I think I'm a freeze, girlie. Yeah. Fight, flight, or freeze.

I think I'm freeze. I want to be fight. I would love to be fight. But I'm not fight in most situations. Like when somebody verbally attacks me, it'll jump. Like, I just, also women in general are taught, I think, to be careful not to fight back, you know? Yeah, I just, I think I've, luckily, I haven't had so much, like, trauma in my life where I have to really think about these responses. That's why I think I am a freeze.

I'm not used to it. But I feel my stomach drop into my. I get nauseous. I black out. I can't see every, every single night when I think someone's breaking into my house. 365, I start to panic. Well, anyway, who ate all the pussy? I am sick obscene this shirt. Is this somebody's like phrase? Is this like a comedian's phrase or like a, it's to me, a lyric and a song? It just feels like a really offensive garment that you see on like a boardwalk shop. You know what I mean? Like it just boardwalk. Yes. Yeah. I've seen it on the Venice Boardwalk. Yeah, I mean, remember when we went to, when we were to Cabo for my 40th and they

came up to me and they had all the, like, headbands? Like, they were like, show me all the sayings. Remember this? And it was just like, I don't know, it was like one dick forever. And it was like, all these like graphic sexual sayings and we were like dying laughing. You looked it up. I looked it up for you. But does this look like one of the shirts? A hundred percent. Yeah, just giant block letters who ate all the pussy. Just like a Venice Boardwalk shirt. I think you're right. So guys, hit the Venice Boardwalk. G-G-E. It's Spencer's. Exactly. Spencer Gives, like stuff like that. But I'm just like, there's this little girl. We see her most weeks at the farmer's market. She's clearly old enough to

read. I think she must have been in a car accident recently. She has a very like Regina George thing going on right now, like the thing above her head, like to keep her like spine straight. And she's still so cute. I'm like, she can read that. This little girl is going to say, what is pussy? Who ate all the pussy? She's going to learn soon. According to Spencer's, website. It's a hilarious graphic tea and the perfect way to show off your sense of humor. Okay. Okay. The perfect way to never get pussy again. What woman is like that's my guy? That's the guy I wanted to eat my pussy. A hundred percent. That's him. I feel like he wouldn't be good at it. I feel like you just be trying too hard. You know? One of those times where it's just like

too wet and you're like I can't even feel anything. Yeah. It's like Nikki Glazer like her bit about the guys that are too enthusiastic. It's like not you. Yes, we want a guy that wants to eat pussy but not you. In the last year of all the people that have been down there, I think I've enjoyed it twice. Well, you don't typically enjoy it. I've always said that. I just, when I enjoy it, I like really enjoy it. Like, this one guy in particular this year, it just really hit it out of the park, like three minutes. He ate all the pussy. He ate all my pussy. I got to go tell that guy. I got to go tell that guy and met his ballpark. We found him. We found the culprit. Sorry, this guy raining him in Metonfield has been eating all the pussy.

I had one other experience in this guy where we were like pretty drunk and I don't think he could really keep it up. But we did a lot of oral stuff for four hours. That was fun. He ate a lot of pussy for like four hours. Yeah. He was full. He was hungry going in.

It was a long night. You know what I say? Skinny guys. They'll eat your pussy really well because they're hungry. I don't think I've fucked any skinny guys this year. Okay. So guys, really quick today, we have Liz Moody and we love her. We adore her.

The conversation is so wonderful. And we went on her podcast as well, which will be out this week. The Liz Moody podcast. She drops her episodes on Wednesday. So a little double header for you guys. We had so much fun doing her show. The questions she asked us. She's just great.

We really love her. And so many people message us. Oh my God. We love her. We can't wait for this collab. She's just like brilliant and grounded and has great advice. And she's really insightful. And so even before we started recording this interview that you guys will hear today,

we were just like talking to her for an hour. We couldn't stop. We just yapping away. So there is that. And we're going to get into it. But we just have one email that we got that caught our eye. The subject line really intrigued me. It was all caps.

This can't be happening. And the email lived up to the subject line. She kept it short. She got right to the point. The fact that these things happened and you guys are like, I have to email girls. What an honor. What an honor. I can't believe this is our job.

Okay. So hi ladies. I'm writing in. my sister who has been married for over a decade was just cheated on by her husband with their ex-couples therapist. Let that sink in. She was out of town

and he had her over to their house. Cooked her a nice steak dinner and then had a steamy makeout on the back porch watching the sunset. She found out by listening to her gut that something was off and went through his phone. Snap-tapsed between them for over a month. This therapist is Snapchatting, Snapchatting her pussy.

he's eating all the pussy. He is blaming this all on her and the lack of intimacy in the marriage. Oh, shocker. Oh, he's blaming her. So it's her fault. There's more details. We want to hear your take on this.

I mean, this is so brazen to cheat on your wife in your home with somebody that your wife probably sought out for help in your marriage. It makes me feel physically ill. I feel so disgusted. I mean, I really just want to send my. condolences to her sister. This is so awful. I can't imagine how this would feel. I guess you have to tell

yourself, like, now I assume it's like over, over. Like someone could do this to you. My initial response is like, fuck that guy. He's a terrible person, but she's been married to him for 10 years. And that's probably not the case. And certainly not what she's experienced. If she stayed married to him for a decade, I don't know if they

have children. I really hope not. Because it's I assume a breakup is like in the future. If it hasn't happened already. But this is just such a violation. It's such a violation of trust. This is someone, again, like you're saying, like, statistically, the woman would seek out. So she might have found this couple's therapist opened up, shared about their relationship. And this is the person that betrays her. My hope would be that there was already problems in the marriage. So she already saw insight to, like, maybe this is not the kind of person I want to be with

already. Yeah. And he gave her the biggest out. You will never forgive this. You will never come back from this. I'm sure it's so painful. But, like, This is the kind of thing you'll look back on in a couple of years and be like, this saved me from a terrible person. He gave me the exact reason I needed to leave. Yeah, exactly. It is so horrifying to do this in your home with somebody that your wife trusted. Yes, I don't know if they have children or not.

To have this have been going on for over a month. And then to gaslight you that this is somehow your fault, he said that they had intimacy issues. That's probably why they were in therapy. And what this therapist was like, now I have the keys to the kingdom, I'm going to take this guy. Yeah.

And I never want to primarily blame the other woman in this situation. Like your husband is the one you're married to, his loyalties to you. But fuck this therapist. And if it were me, I'm getting her ass fired. Disbarred. This is so crazy. This is against what you sign up for. It's medical malpractice.

No, it is. I think it has to be illegal, right? I mean, there's governing boards for psychology and how you're allowed to engage with patience and psychologists, they don't really tell you, like, do this thing because they could be, like, legally liable if you harm yourself or harm another person. I mean, there are governing bodies for this. I'm pretty sure it's looked down upon to fuck your patience. Well, but like, if they got divorced, if the sister and they got divorced and they reconnected somehow, I don't know the rules. That's fine with me. You met in an unconventional way and maybe you had a connection.

Like, I think everybody should find people that they have that connection. with and be happy. I think every man wants to fuck his therapist. What? It's just, it's a woman that understands him and listens to him and they can project. I mean, this is a very common thing that you project this idea onto this therapist of what it would be like to really be in a relationship with that person because they're this great listener and they're empathetic and they try to help you reframe your

feelings. And this is very common for people to like fall for their therapist. And yeah, sure, if you break up with your partner, fine, date your therapist. Yeah, but it's like, that's my issue is like, if we got this, And it was like, guys, can you believe this? My sister's ex-husband is now dating their ex-couples therapist. I'd be like, ah, that is going to sting. But like, I can't be mad at it.

No. Like, it's, you know, everyone's broken up. It's an ex-client. But this, I mean, you're part of this infidelity after you tried to coach this couple. And then I'd be wondering, like, oh, my gosh, did she always have a crush on him? And was she even being. And she's towards it. Yeah.

was she, exactly. Like, was she pushing us apart or was she trying to be authentic? I mean, this is just crazy on so many levels. It's so hurtful. The kindest, most charitable assumption I can give to this is that they went to a couple's therapy. The relationship was so broken that they had no intimacy left, no trust, no nothing, that a long time went by, the therapist had feelings for him.

But you break up and then you date the therapist. I mean, I'm dying to know, and it doesn't say in the email, like how long it had been since they'd been in therapy. Like, probably not years. Like, I'm assuming she says ex-couples therapists are probably not current couples therapist. Yeah. But sometime in the current landscape.

Yeah. I also think, like you mentioned, the home is so disgusting to me, no matter what this situation is. Like, again, we say it all the time and we did an episode on it with Esther Perel. Like, cheating is not always black and white, and there is so much nuance,

and everyone has a different story and different motivations, and you can certainly come back from it. We just talked about this with Sheena recently. It's not this like, once a cheater, always a cheater. It's always just like the terrible person that you can't be trusted. But like you do it in the home. You share with somebody.

Fuck you forever. You are a disgusting person. I think there is no excuse for it. You can go meet someone on neutral ground. You go to their house. Like to bring them into your wife's home, potentially your children's home. Like what?

It's so gross. to me. It's unnecessarily cruel to me. Like, I have all these memories here with somebody and you've ruined them now. You've ruined it. Yeah. I can't see anything besides the fact that you plan a date with another person in our home. You put dinner with them. You probably sex with them in our home. What I'm supposed to live here now. Yeah. So I hope your sister and him are getting divorced. Yeah, keep us posted. And again, like, thank you guys for sharing your stories with us and fuck that therapist and send us their details. Hey guys, not really, she wouldn't share any details,

but here's a therapist that we don't recommend if you want to leave a Yelp review. And we'll put a steak emoji. The steak emoji. And a sunset, the steak and the sunset of the emoji. And then the Snapchat goes to know exactly who she is. Find us on Snapchat. We'll tag her. Okay.

Well, again, we'll get into it with Liz, but just going to talk about a few of our partners first. Okay. As a card-carrying girl's girl, I have something to tell you this summer is not only about being sexy, it's about having a better morning after. You heard that right. You might be waking up in your own bed or someone else's. They may or may not have maybe blue sheets. None of my business, but it doesn't matter because Julie has you covered. The Julie morning after pill uses the same trusted, gyno recommended ingredients as plan B to delay ovulation and prevent pregnancy when

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you're screwed. Like many sexually active women, I have taken the morning after pill before, and not only was it a breeze, but it was a real relief for me that I made the right choice for myself. That is my whole 20s. Girls, girls, girls everywhere could find Julia at CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Target, Amazon, and GoPuff across all 50 states, no age restrictions and no ID required ever. We really would be out here. It would be so tough to get this. I remember I had to buy one for a friend. I think I was home from college. She was still in high school and I had to like go, It was like such a huge ordeal because I was 18. I don't even remember.

It was different then. It was harder to get the lines. Oh my God, the lines on Saturdays and Sunday morning at Twain Reed. What, in New York? And every girl in New York City. Oh, my God. I was like, not in Dover.

Oh. They could not keep that shit in stock in the East Village in New York City. If you were smart and you were working in finance back then, you were like invest. Invest in Plan B. Okay. I'm telling you guys about Hungry Root. I love this so much. this has been the busiest time in my life I can say with certainty. And so Hunger Route,

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She is a best-selling author, podcast host, and a leading voice in the wellness space known for making science-backed health and happiness feel approachable. Her book, A Hundred Ways to Change Your Life, offers actionable tips for improving mental, physical, and emotional wellbeing, and quickly became a go-to resource for self-growth. She is also the host of the Liz Moody podcast

where she interviews top experts on everything from relationships to longevity to anxiety. Please welcome to the show, Liz Moody. Yay. Thank you so much for having me. We have been talking for like an hour and a half. Two hours. I've been to start, restart the cameras. I have a lot of VTS footage that.

I wonder if we released what we just did. Oh, my God. If we would all get canceled, probably. I think we don't need to find that out. Well, you told us a crazy story. We're not going to reveal it. But someone we read their email on the podcast, it's your friend. And you told us the outcome.

and it was shocking and, you know, we'll just, that one will stay in the ball. But hi to her, because she's definitely listening right now. Can you guys say hi? Hi. What's her name? It's Jenny. Jenny, we hope you're thriving and we feel like you are. Yeah.

Okay. Well, Liz, it's been such a pleasure talking to you and your content's so amazing. And you touch on so many buckets on like physical and mental well-being and how to be great in the career, friendship, relationships. But like, can you give us like the boilerplate background on like what you do, who you are, how you got here? So I've been a journalist for over 20. years now. I started when I was 16 years old. I had a national newspaper column for six years.

Oh my gosh. I love that. And it's kind of just like evolved since then. So I had my own mental health crisis and that shifted my focus for my journalism into like how we can all feel our absolute best every single day so we can make the most out of our one wild and precious life. And now I have a podcast and I write books. And I'm just out there looking for tools that people can use to feel their best every single day. Your story is interesting. I mean, you suffer from extreme anxiety and agoraphobia and couldn't leave the house. And it's such a testament to what you do today that you wrote this book on like very little actionable steps to make yourself happy. And I mean, you turned it around. I mean, what you were living with was it feels insurmountable in the middle

of it, I'm sure. Yeah. And I really like talking about it because when I was in that place, for people's reference, I was in a place where I could not get out of bed without having panic attacks. And that was for over six months of my life. So there was a very long period where I just was like, this is it. I'm going to live the rest of my life in bed. And during that time, I would look for stories of people who had extreme anxiety or extreme depression and were able to get to the other side. I'd watch celebrities on talk shows who I knew had had really extreme anxiety and be like, oh, if Amanda Seifred can go do the Tonight Show, like, there's hope for me too. So I like to think even just by sitting here and being able to have this conversation with you, I can impart that little message of hope for other people. What age were you?

I was in my late 20s. And then do you know what triggered it? Yeah. So I was living in New York and then my husband got into a graduate program in England. And so we moved to London and I was like, this is great. I'm going to thrive. I had traveled the world by myself at that point. I lived in Berlin.

I lived all of Buenos Aires. I was like, this is going to be amazing. I'm going to be like London-Lis. It's going to be fabulous. You're married to each other at that point? No, we were domestic partners because I needed a visa and I didn't want him to propose for a visa. I wanted him to propose because like, so that was the point where I was just like getting drunk and being like, why don't you want to marry me? Okay.

Which is super effective. I can't recommend him. But anyway, others looking for tips. And so we moved to England and I was going to write a book. So I didn't have like a job that got me out into community. So my community just very quickly shrank from all these people that I was hanging out in New York to basically nobody. London is wonderful, but it's a very spread out city.

And it's a hard city to make friends because every single person lives within two hours of every person they've ever known in their entire life because it's like a small island. And I didn't also put myself out there and like take the efforts and the steps that I needed to make friends. So I think that isolation, it really shows there's so much research that shows that the quality and strength of our relationships is the number one predictor of our health and our happiness in our lives. And I was living proof of that because when that dissolved, my life fell apart. Oh my gosh. Did you move back after that?

Yeah. Did you like heal in London or did you move? I started to heal in London. So I really also like to talk about how long that process was. Yeah. Can we talk about that? Yeah. What does day one look like?

Day one was me laying with my cat in bed and I started emailing. I'd been a journalist for years at that point. And so the only tool that I had in my arsenal was like, how do we figure out what experts say about how to heal from this? So I started emailing people that I had no business emailing like heads of neuroscience at Ivy League universities and like RDs and doctors who are super famous. And most of them did not reply, but a few of them did. One of my life mottos is never be the one to say no to yourself.

Other people might say no to you, but you don't want to be the person to say no to yourself. It's gotten me in my husband. It's gotten me my book deal. It's gotten me my healing journey from my anxiety. So the few people that did reply would tell me like, here's what's going on in your brain. Here's what's going on in your body with this anxiety.

Here's what's causing the panic attack. Here are things that researchers help with panic attacks. So I started to piece together this little bit of a plan with like teeny tiny steps that I could take. So the first thing that I did, I kind of compiled that research. I got that stuff back in. And I'm literally like, picture me laying sideways in bed with like my computer propped up on my pillow and that's where I was like conducting this and

I was like I'm going to live my rest of my life in bed and that's fine I just want to feel a little bit better because at that point I felt that if I continued to feel the level of discomfort that I felt life was no longer worth living like I was that far down so I was just looking for these little ways to feel better and one of the first things that somebody sent back to me was a breath work exercise and so I started doing that laying in bed that started making me feel better for just these like little peaky moments in time. I started working on nutrition elements because I had nutrient deficiencies all over the place. Started working on a movement practice, which I did in my room in London. And then when I came back to New York, I had, I built in structure, I built in community,

and I kind of put those final pieces in place. So you focused on physical, which I always say it's like sleeping, take a walk, small steps. Yeah, really small steps. I'm sleeping a lot. I'm sleeping like 20 hours a day, so I had that good. Which is bad in its own way. Depression. Yeah, yeah. I'm just curious. how this went in your relationship. You know, and obviously you said this was like a six-month period. It didn't happen all at once, I assume. It was kind of like slowly over time.

And what did that do to the relationship? Could he help you? Like I'm honestly just asking out of curiosity. Yeah. So the first time I realized something was like really wrong was when he actually invited me out to a pub to watch a rugby game with his friends. And I couldn't go. And I didn't realize why I couldn't go.

And then I was like, oh my gosh, this is like really bad. And so that was an interesting element. but I think I hid a lot of it from him. You know when animals are sick and they're kind of like self-protective and they don't want to show that they're sick? I was sort of like that too where I didn't want him to see me in a certain way. And so I really hid a lot of how bad I was feeling from him and didn't let him help me because I didn't want him to see how vulnerable that I was.

But I would say that post facto, it's brought in us so much closer together. Like we have been able to have deep, vulnerable, intimate conversations. he's been able to open up to me about anxieties and hard things in his life. So I think post facto it's really been helpful. But during the moment, I think he would have been there for me and he was there for me in so many ways. But I just didn't let him know how bad it was. You feel like you compartmentalized throughout the day. He would get home and it was sort of time.

He was really busy. He was in a program where he like up early, homely type of thing. Yeah. Which is part of why I was so isolated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, hey. So he'd get home and I'd be like in back. And he was like, okay, well, she's going to sleep.

Yeah, right. Little did he know the last 10 hours. I do think it's just, we talk about asking for help, and I think it is important to let people know how you're feeling. And I was, like, very depressed in the fall. And I couldn't stop crying. And I just, even like when I would stop crying, I just, I felt no joy in anything I was doing. And the best thing I did for myself was talk to people about it and just tell my friends and let

them know where I was. And like, to hide that from people felt it's a natural thing to do because you're like, I don't want to bother people, but also people noticed in my life. I mean, I remember actually saying to me, like, you're just, you're really not yourself. I'm like really worried about you. And the more I talk to people and let them in, the better it got. I did this last night. I just started getting in this spiral about something happening in my life. I don't need to get into it. And I started really having, like, bad negative thoughts. And like, my fiance was clean at the kitchen. And I just like, usually kind of chat with him. He's like doing stuff. And I just like was on my phone,

scrolling, thinking bad things. And like, I was like, sorry I've been like, like, spiraling and I just like told him everything I've been feeling and we are very close obviously but it I'm glad I could let him in on like the fears and anxieties I'm having surrounding a certain thing in my life and just speaking him about it and him comforting me and you know saying the right things and just being there and I could have not I could have held it in I want him to obviously think I have my shit together and exactly no I have okay so I have three thoughts on this one is that we tend to We think we're being vulnerable with our friends, but often we are actually hiding these really deep things. The things that we actually have shame about, we're not showing those to our friends

because we want the people that we think are great to think that we're great. And so we're trying to present this version of ourselves. And by and large, research shows that the more vulnerable we are with our friends, the more they will like us. So I do think that if we can push ourselves, not to say almost, I feel like we've normalized talking about almost like our surface level trauma and then we think we're being vulnerable because we're like, oh, I'm talking about these things that are actually quite comfortable for me to open up about, but if you go a step level deeper and you actually talk about, I feel real shame about this. It feels so much better for you and it's going to feel so good for your friend, for your partner, et cetera, et cetera.

Thing too is that the mere act of disclosure is incredibly helpful for our brains. It alleviates so much stress. And that's just talking about something. It's journaling. It's a huge part of why therapy works. It's not only the expertise of the incredible therapist, but just creating a space where you can take the things out of your brain, the act of turning them into words creates sense for your brain. And so then it makes them less amorphous and it makes it easier for your brain to like categorize and deal with it. That's the science behind journaling and the science behind just talking about anything. And then the third thing is, so the point of where I was where when you're really depressed, when you're really anxious, it can actually be hard to tell

people how to show up for you. So I like to do it preemptively now. I like to tell people, hey, when I'm feeling really down. I'm probably going to stop answering text. I'm probably going to remove myself and draw into myself. Actually, this is what I need from you as my friend in these moments. And I prepare them with the tools ahead of time for what they will need to show up for me in the way that I need to be shown up for because I know in those moments, I won't be able to articulate those things. And in fact, I'll just retreat. I'm avoidant when I'm depressed or anxious. And I completely withdraw. And then I feel lonely and then I feel worse. It is cyclical. Yeah. Because of course, your notion is to like sleep more, don't go out more. I know the things that'll make me feel better and I cannot

do them. And it really made me feel a lot more closest with the people around me. I mean, I look back at that time of my life and just how much people showed up for me. And I show up for other people and I will sit there and listen to other people for hours. And it was nice to have that reciprocated. And we love that. Like if you reflect on how good it feels to show up for one of your friends when they truly need you, I think it's like, what a beautiful gift that we can give that to other people. Yet we deny other people that gift because we think we're going to burden them or we want them to see us a certain way. Yeah, maybe people feel like they don't want to dump all over somebody. I mean, I guess there's certainly a line.

There's a line. Yeah, like, you've been crying to me every day for three years. This is a lot. Well, especially if like people, when they come to you with the same problem over and over and over, and then they make no change. And you're like, well, I'm not here for this. Well, there's a line at which you have to tell people. I mean, the things I was dealing with were problems I'd been having for years with the

same people I've been having those problems with. And so at some point, you do have to say it to somebody. I think you should seek some therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember that scene in Sex and the City where her friends are like, we can't do this anymore? Yeah. Like, we're not.

This is word bored by this situation. I mean, I said that to Raina. I was like, you are not yourself and like you are in like a low right now. It's like a slump. But like I care about you and I love you and, you know, could be worth talking to somebody. Whatever it is, I'm like, I know you're just feeling this right now. But there will become a point where it's been too long. You'll decide that.

I'm not telling you what that point is. Yeah. But like this can't go on like this. forever and it didn't. Yeah, I think that like finding also like you're like when you feel these ways, you don't want to take a walk, you don't want to get outside, you don't want to do the things that are good for you. I think sometimes as a friend, if your friend is kind of talking about the same thing over and over, instead of trying to hash through the same problem, how can you get them to do the things that will make them feel better, that they'll be in the state of mind where they can

make the decisions that benefit their lives. So sometimes they'll be like, we don't need to like talk about this problem anymore, but like let's go for a hike. Yeah, like something like that. I think that's great. And that's real. And that's real. shit that real friends do. It was like show up face to face or at least off or two instead of just like texting like, hey, hope you're doing okay. My father-in-law just died and it was so interesting because my mother-in-law said a number of times that like the friends who just showed up without asking, she said that specifically like they showed up without asking made her feel so loved. And I think that's such an interesting, yeah, an interesting thing. Just like be there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. And we're sorry about

your father-in-law. We already knew that. We did say we're sorry before just so you guys. now. So, you know, you get to this point where you're on this path to healing and I guess you decide that you want to pass that information on to other people. And you've interviewed so many people about ways to be like mentally stronger and talk to your partners. I mean, maybe we start, what do you want to start with? Well, let's start with psychological richness.

What it is, what it means. Do you have it? Do we have it? How to get it. So it's not something you have, but it's something. I'm going to stop you right there. It's not something that anybody has. Not just you.

We all don't have it, but it's something that we should aspire to in our lives. And I think that what I like about this concept is psychological richness is the idea that a well-lived life, and there's a lot of research on this, includes things that we perceive as more of struggles. So these are hardships, they're deviations, they're things like breakups, they're things like layoffs. And in these moments, they add this texture, this psychological richness to our lives that when we look back at our lives, we perceive them as being more satisfying, more rich, and more well-level.

lived. And I love this because in the moments where I'm like crying and I'm like, everything sucks and I hate this, I can literally step back for a second and be like, I'm adding psychological richness to my life. This is not a deviation from the journey. This is actually a key, poor part of the journey. It's really interesting. So I've been writing a lot and I've been writing around two things very specifically a lot and they are the two of the hardest moments in my life. And I look back on those things and they're the things I feel so passionate about because that's where the growth came from and that's where all the knowledge came from and that's where all the best moments in my life, the best friendships grew out of and it pours out of me when I'm writing about it because I'm like,

look how much good came from this. It's because you're making sense because you're using words so it's helping your brain process. Back to our earlier. But we also admire this in other people and we, you know, not that we're like, ah, it's such a turn on that he's had that struggle. But like we do kind of think, like you see strength of character and the way people have dealt with things. And Rayna and I talked about this one guy we know. And we just is like, he just hasn't had any struggle. His life has been such a breeze. And it almost makes you less equipped to deal

with stuff. Oh, I wouldn't want to date somebody who had not. I would be very nervous to do so. We've said that. Like someone that's really never gone through much, wasn't even bullied in school, you know, just like life has been a breeze. And I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I think we all need to go through shit. And I, yes, the breakup stuff. I mean, once you get the past, that one terrible feel like you're going to die breakup. You really don't have to do it again. Yeah. I think.

You know, and all of those things. So we love this discussion. Yeah. And what I like about, like, I think a lot of us are good at the looking back and being like,

oh, okay. Like I experience, you know, growth from that, post-traumatic growth or anything like that. But I like just the word psychological richness

and knowing it's something, there's something about the phraseology of it that's really helpful for me in the moment to be like, research shows this is good for me. You know what I mean? So it doesn't,

lessen the pain because it reminds me that the pain is important. Well, you look back at your own experience. You've been six months in bed, being depressed, not wanting to leave the house, and like, look what's grown from it. If you hadn't had that, why would you ever have reached out to all these experts and asked them for their advice? Like, this grew from that. Sometimes I think about when I go and do events in person and people come up to me and tell me about like their lives change in this way because they learned something from my work. And I'm like, that is the ripple effect. If I hadn't been in bed during that time, like this person wouldn't have had this information. that help them and it just, it makes me cry.

Like, I just think it's bananas. You said something earlier. Was it, I don't know if it was that term or not about the way that you live your life and you're deciding whether or not to have kids. Is that what you said? I said experientially rich. Can we just talk, can you just say that the same thing you said earlier? Like, the way you live your life.

Yeah, I think my number one goal is to live an experientially rich life. And we were talking about how I've explored a lot on my podcast, the decision of whether or not I want to have kids. I have a whole series called the pros and cons of having kids where we have therapists on. We have real stories of people who regret having children, people who regret not having children, people who are child free by choice, people who chose to have children and absolutely love it, all of the range of experiences. And I came down on having one kid because I'm interested in the experience of having a child

as part of my experientially rich life. I think there's a lot of ways to live in experientially rich life, but it's nice for me to have that benchmark. So when I'm making life choices with that intentionality behind it, I know what I'm going in the direction of. What is another point in your life you've thought in that way aside from kids? Is this as little as travel and as big as marriage and kids and career? I think it's, I mean, it's as little as like I'm laying on the couch scrolling and then I'll ask myself, is this part of an experientially rich life? Oh, thank you, Liz. I'm going to use that.

It's as little as like, if I get an opportunity, I'll ask myself, is this opportunity adding to my experientially rich life? if I'm based with a situation that's a little bit uncomfortable. Sometimes I'm like, is this discomfort part of my experientially rich life? Because experiences are not always positive. Experiences are the range of emotions. It also helps me in those harder moments. I'm like, I think that to get the full 360 of an experientially rich life, we need to experience all of the emotions, not just like, yay, happy every single day.

So it helps me in those moments too. It's something I think about almost every single day because it helps me make almost all of my decisions. A lot of your content is about what we think is going to make us happy, what actually makes us happy, what we think is going to end us that actually is a great thing for us. And I love thinking about all those things. And, you know, what does this experience bring to my life? What is lying on the couch bring to my life? What is this trip going to bring to my life? Who am I doing those things with?

How am I doing them? I think it's really important. And we can talk a little about like what we think is going to make us happy versus not. And so basically the arrival fallacy is something that I've listened to you talk about on the podcast in your clips. I'll let you talk about. Take it away, Liz. So the arrival policy is the idea that when we get something, we will suddenly be happy. So people will do this with when I get engaged, I'll be happy, when I get married, I'll be happy, when I get this job, I'll be happy, when I publish this book, I'll be happy.

When I buy this house, I'll be happy. When I lose this weight, I'll be happy. And whenever we put this sort of benchmark on my happiness is contingent on this thing, research shows that we will not be happier when we get that thing. And in fact, often we are less happy because we have found out that that thing didn't make us as happy as we were. wanted and that was always our light at the end of the tunnel and our thing in the distance that we thought would make us happier. So there's something called the Olympic gold medal syndrome. And that's all these Olympians who've worked their entire lives towards this goal of getting a gold metal. They get a gold medal. And then they often go into these periods of deep depression because

they think that that gold medal is going to make it all feel worth it, all the sacrifices that they've made, all the hardship they've endured, all this work that they've put in. And it doesn't make them feel the way that they want to feel. And they're like, well, what do I do now? It happens with the Oscars as well, big awards. It happens when people sell companies. There was the founder of Lume recently sold his company for millions and millions of dollars. And he did a substack post about how he was going through a deep depression and he didn't have direction for his life anymore. So the antidote to this is to when we feel, oh, this thing is going to be the thing that's going to make me happy, ask ourselves and said, how can I enjoy the journey of this? It's almost trite the amount of times we say it,

like life is a journey. That is what it's about. But it really is the research shows that humans are wired for progress, not arrival. What makes us feel good is moving in a direction, not arriving at a place and reminding yourself that right now when you're in the relationship, but you're not on the wedding day, that's what life is about. Right now, when you're hanging out with your friends, like that is what life is about. Right now when you're writing the book versus the day the book comes out, like if you can enjoy the act of writing the book versus the book coming out, the New York Times byseller list, all of that, that's what's going to feel good. If you're the Olympian, And if you can enjoy the tumbling sessions and getting to travel with your teammates all that.

That is what life is about. I love it. I think you see so many depictions of this. I mean, I was watching the Aaron Rogers documentary. And he talked about he won the Super Bowl and it kicked him into a depression because he was like, what next? And I feel like it's really important to like celebrate your wins and, you know, pull into port and sit there and enjoy it, but enjoy getting there. Because, yeah, the goalpost is always moving.

It should be moving. And if you're somebody that really holds themselves to a high standard, like Ashley and I, you know, we want to beat the best podcast. want to write a book, we want to do all these things. But once we get there, like, what's next? And it's important to remind yourself that, like, getting there is something you should enjoy. Well, and I think that because we want to tell ourselves, like, this next thing, like, there is the part of our brain that is motivated by these destinations. So it's this constant act of pulling yourself back and reminding yourself, like, no, it's right now, no, it's right now, no, it's right now. You're overcoming this

bias in your brain of wanting to put the weight on this distant future success. I've known in my life quite a few people that have very quick marriages, 18 months or less. And people I went to high school with college, I mean, people that were together for a long time, that got married, like, not quickies. People that were together seven, eight years, got married and were divorced in 18 months. And to me, that is like you're driving towards this goal,

and then you get there, and it's like, well, what next? And I'm not picking on marriage. And I think there's lots of things like this, like winning the Super Bowl. But, you know, you have to know that there's, like, something after that and be able to enjoy things after that, like, just the goal. I know because you want to enjoy that big thing. I guess the self-talk, like you said, is almost preparing yourself for the thing. And it's enjoy the journey now.

It's like what you're saying. Because if these things happen, you want to enjoy them in the moment and not be like, what next, what next. Yes. I think that's one part of it. I have two also like very actionable, tangible things people can do. One, I love this. I did this episode about like happiness hacks that actually work.

And one of my absolute favorite ones and one of the ones I've heard the most success with with other people is to ask yourself what's good here all the time. so that wires your brain to notice the good things in your environment in your life right now. So if you walk into this room, you'd be like, what's good here? You'd be like, oh, I love these pink velvety curtains. I love the energy that Rain and Ashley have. I love this really cute dog. And you're just like wiring your brain to notice all of the good things in that moment.

So you can do that in any sort of you're planning your wedding. What's good here? What's good in this moment? You're eating a meal. What's good here? What's good in this moment? So I think that that can be really helpful for doing that. And then I had a second thing.

I don't know. I lost it. I think it's just also removing this idea that like this thing is going to make me happy. If I get married, I'll be happy. Oh, this is the second thing that I was going to say. I know. Thank you so. I know it's what you're true.

It's to diversify your personality. I think that one of the reasons that we get so caught up in these single things is because we identify as that thing. I am the fiancee and this wedding is like my big moment. I am the writer. I'm identified with this thing. I'm the Olympian. I'm my job in this way.

And the more facets we can bring into our personality, the less reliant our personality is on any single thing. So adding in like hobbies and being a great friend. And I'm taking singing lessons now. So I get to add that into my identity. And I think these little tiny, I'm a musical lover. That's part of my identity,

which kind of goes with singing lessons except for, I'm never going to be in a musical because I still can't really sing. But like these are all little parts of my identity. And it makes it easier to not get so hung up on one thing. going a certain way. I am the wife. I love that. I love that too. And I just, God, you're so right about enjoy the journey. I guess I've been practicing with this without really realizing it when I'm like, it's not like the tour. It's such a grind. And I'm not just working towards this goal. It's like, actually, I really enjoy it. And it's like a really

great part of it. I guess you can do that with with anything. Like, you're right. I feel like there's probably athletes that are like, it's just all hard work. It's like all work, no play until you get the gold medal. And that is not enjoying the journey. that is being like it's all for one goal. That's all that matters. And it's not appreciating the progress. Well, you hear so many people say, I thought X thing was going to make me happy.

I got it and I'm not happy. I know. And isn't it like until it happens to you, you don't really believe it? You're like, well, that's silly. If I got enough to her, I'd be happy. Yeah.

But like then it happens to you and you're like, oh, shoot. Like, I don't know anybody. I'm actually thinking about all these incredibly successful people I know and they've all achieved so many of their dreams. And I think they're so grateful for it. And there's been so many incredible experiences that they've had and I would not say a single one of them would say that thing made them happy,

including myself. Like writing my books, like I love them. I'm so proud of them. The act of writing the book changed me much more than the day that the book came out. Being the kind of person that people want to tune in and listen to every week, that makes me happy. And building a life that supports that makes me happy. Yeah. But like no one achievement makes me happy.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think people who are high achievers and are ambitious and motivated, like, won't be able to help themselves by asking what's next. But I guess the answer is, you can do both. Hopefully you've had a diversified enough life and personality that there are so many other things that are making you happy other than that one thing. And just ask what's good here a few times along the way. Okay, just going to take a quick break and we will get back into it with Liz. I am telling you guys about Ollie dog food. Okay, so we've told you about Azul.

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and shop our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you and select podcast in the survey. And be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. Okay. We can move on to dating, but I just want to touch on your like energy audit and things that like drain you. And I think that that's a good way to spend your time. Yeah. If you're just like, how do I enjoy this journey, it's take some accountability for how you spend your day. Well, and I also think that energy is like the thing that we are not talking enough about in terms of trying to feel good. So we're like, oh, I need to do all these habits. I need to fix my gut health. I need to like do all these things to my relationship. And it's like if you do

not have energy, you're not going to be able to do any of those things. That is like the root cause thing. If we don't have it, we're not able to add in any of the other things that are going to make us feel good. And so I like to go way, way back and say like, how do you feel energy wise on any given day and how can we get those energy levels up. So the energy audit is looking around at the parts of your life that give you energy and looking at the parts of your life that are sapping you energy and what are the parts that are sapping energy that don't need to be there. And I think being really honest with yourself about that. That could be you always pushing yourself to send those last emails and stay late at work when you could set a harder boundary and what do you actually

need to do for your job because your job demands it and what are you demanding of yourself for your job? I think is a really helpful question people can ask. It can also be the people that. that you surround yourself with, who's lifting your energy and who's draining your energy. And it can be the foods that you eat. It can be the exercises that you can do. I think self-taught can be incredibly draining. If you're talking shit about yourself in your head all day long, it's like no wonder you feel exhausted all the time.

So I think that looking at all these different facets and saying, do I have the energy that I want to do the things that I want before you're just trying to cram all these new things in and then feeling bad that you're not achieving them. And hot take, but the scrolling and the comparing. and the, all of that is just stop it. That's literally just, that's just to stop it. It is, do you guys struggle with scrolling? Yeah.

And I will say when my fiance moved in has changed my life completely in terms of I don't scroll at night and in the, sometimes I have to get up and look at text, but I used to scroll before bed. It was ruining my brain. It was ruining my sleep. I'm a different person. But I'm still way too much on my phone by day. and, you know, the state of the world is, it's like I want to stay informed, but I struggle with that.

And comparing, I mean, Brandon and I've always been pretty good at like we have achieved a lot. But, you know, no one is safe from, why don't I have that? Why did they get that? Why didn't we get that? No one. No one. So it's just like I really, I practice this self-talk. And what do I have and what am I so grateful and appreciative of and what I have accomplished?

And, you know, I have to counteract it. Yeah. Not every day, but, okay, you know. I think it happens to all of us. It's important to be honest that it happens to all of us. I've gotten really good at drawing boundaries of myself, but what I'm going to do when I can show up better at the end of the day yesterday and the end of the day I used in quotes was 430, I got home and like I had to work on your

outline and I was like, I just don't, I slept for five hours the night before. I don't have it in me. And I knew if I just put the phone down for a few hours, had a good dinner, went to sleep early. I could wake up at 6 o'clock in the morning and feel fresh and good. And Ashley and I had like a great talk about your episode this morning. And I like, I just, I drew the boundary with myself. Get off the phone.

go to sleep early, but I guess there's no other takeaway. No, I don't struggle with the phone. But I've had to draw the boundaries. Yeah, Rayna's way less than me. The phone is hard because people will say like just stop it. We all know it's bad for us, but it is addictive and it's designed to be addictive. So I think that sometimes when we just say stop it and people are like, I'm trying. I'm trying so hard to stop it.

And we all still do it. And so the most helpful takeaway, we have an entire episode about how to get off your phone and like strategies that actually work. But the most helpful takeaway I have is that you want to make the habits that you want to have as easy as possible and you want to make the habits that you don't want to have as hard as possible. So most of us plug our phones in by our bed at night. That is making it as easy as possible to wake up in the morning and scroll on your phone.

If you just put your phone in another room, you're making it a little bit harder. Any tiny, I think we tell ourselves, oh, that's not going to make a big difference. But any tiny step of friction is going to make that habit easier to have not stick. And we need to do as many of those friction steps to overcome the fact that these things are designed to be so incredibly addictive. Yeah. The limits, the where you put the app on your phone, if you have to scroll over a bunch. That's all friction. So I think just asking yourself, like, how can I create that friction is really, really important. I love a little morning scroll, but I hold myself to like 20 minutes

and then I try to get up for my coffee, make my two do list, do brain animals. I like to get outside. That's my rule. So we do cirqu walks in my community. That's just like a walk outside for 10 minutes in the morning. I view it as like a multivitamin for your entire body because it impacts your hormones. It impacts your gut microbiome. It impacts your mental health, all these different things. So if I do that before I get on my phone, I feel like real proud of myself. But also, it really helps your dopamine to scroll at the end of the day, because if you scroll at the beginning of the day, if you do nothing else but move your scrolling later in the day, you'll find it less addictive and you'll need less dopamine hard hit activities

throughout the day. So you'll like snack less. You'll be able to focus on your work more. You'll be able to read more all of those things. If you can just move it later in the day, so you're not having this hard hit of dopamine first thing when you wake up and setting that as your baseline standard. Okay. I have been taking NAD supplements and they have changed my life. Really? Yeah. Wait, tell me.

We just did a sub-sac about NAD. I'm so curious. Really? Yeah. I got these supplements from a Dr. Barrett who he has his own line. I think I still have a code. It's Ash 20. If you guys want him.

But I don't know. He just was like, you're over 40. You should take these. I was like, okay. And I have so much more energy. I feel so much stronger in workouts. noticeably. Things that used to be more challenging are so easy, workout-wise. I have tons of energy. I don't have that 4 p.m. slump. I've been sleeping better. And I'm in like two months every day.

Yeah. Do you do it? I don't work out. So the same way. Daily energy. I notice it. Obviously, the workout is where I notice it the most. Do you think I would enjoy it if I don't work out? Yeah. And it's just more energy. But I don't know. You have pretty good energy levels. Yeah, but I get that 4.30 slump. I'm done with the day at 430. What did you learn about it? I was actually really impressed with the research. Like, I went in kind of being like, is this a trend? Is this silly? But actually the research seems pretty robust and it seems to like be quite helpful for people. Yeah, this, it can't be a placebo effect in terms of the fitness aspect of it where I'm like doing strength training that I'm like that is so easy. They're like measurably lift anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's interesting. I want to try. That was like it. Yeah. It was a good testament. So we want to talk about dating and relationships a little bit. Yeah, let's talk about dating. I've been in a relationship for 27 million years. How long have you guys been together? You and Zach. You couldn't figure it out earlier. We met in 2009.

Okay. 17 years? 16. Fine. We'll give you 17. It depends on what you bet. I think that is what math would say. But math, I was like, I'm pretty good at math.

I don't know. 16 years. That feels right. Yeah. And we've been, I think we're going to be married for 10 years soon. Okay. Congratulations. Are you going to have a.

Are you going to have a, like a real? So I want to have a vow renewal, but I think it's the same year. Again, you're seeing how bad I am with Mathis, but I think it's the same year as both of our 40th birthdays. And then I'm like, I really want a destination 40th. I want him to have a destination 40th. And I want to vote. Like, is that too much?

But then I'm like, maybe we do like a weekend. Yeah. Where is like a festival. And it's like day one. You know I did this. You did for your 40th, right? Yeah. Throw a festival.

Wait, so can you tell us the day is your anniversary and your two birthdays? Yeah. Yeah. So he's January 20th for his birthday. Our anniversary is May. Okay. Then my birthday is August 14th. I'm a Leo, as you guys can like clearly tell.

It's spread out a lot. It is. But I think we could gather in the summer. What I like is the idea of doing day one, it's Zach theme. So it's like adventure stuff. Yeah. You should definitely do this. We like, I don't know, go climb a tree or like whatever he would like to do.

Yeah. And then day two is like Liz theme. where we maybe do some sort of like, everybody has to have deep conversations and cry and eat cookie dough and then get a massage. I love this. Okay. I want to come to that too.

And then the third day is like more of a vau renewal and it's like about us. You have to do this. This is amazing. I've got my solution to the problem. This is incredible. I can already see like the lineup for the festival. This sounds so fun. So wait,

are you guys a fan of like, I'm sure people write into you all the time and they're like the destination stuff is getting out of control, blah, blah. Like are you guys a fan of like do it? And if people want to come, they come. And if they don't want to come, they don't come. I mean, I've thought about everything in the world.

But, like, I think you personally have to check in with yourself and say, if people can't come, I'm going to be okay with that. People can't afford it. They have children. They don't have the time for it. Just because I want to take a vacation doesn't mean somebody else wants to take that vacation. That exactly. Yeah, I think that it's fine.

That's where I fall on it. It's like, it's fine to do it. It's not fine to be mad if other people don't want to join. And think about who are your friends. You know, I think it's crazy when people do a bunch of crazy destination shit in their 20s. people can't afford it. I guess they obviously have to be okay with a lot of people not being able to come unless all your friend group is, you know, rich people. But also what you're asking to people, how much you're asking in a certain amount of time. Like I did a 40th in Cabo. It was a smaller

group, 10 or 12. I just knew everybody really wanted to go. We were on the West Coast now. A lot of people came from the West Coast. Some people didn't. But I find it interesting when people choose destination, bachelorette and wedding. Okay. That's your line. If that's what your friends want to do. And again, I also think it's like you have, as long as you are okay with people saying no, and as long as you like express that to your friends. And I think we also have to take agency too. Yeah. I can't afford this right now or I don't want to do this and be okay with saying no ourselves.

Yeah. I think you and I also, for her 40th and I removed a lot of the barriers for people. We both planned it end to end. So we were like, this is exactly what you're showing up for. I took care of a house. That's what I want to do. I want to like pay for as much of it as I can. Like pay plane fairs for people who maybe would feel less comfortable with it.

I just feel like that makes me feel really good. Yeah. So we really like your clips about engaging with your partner and the type of content, like the way that you respond to each other and what you talk about. And one of the clips that we really loved was this bidding and how you connect with your partner. Well, there's a couple things you talked about that I like. But let's talk a little bit about just like you're in a relationship, you know, day to day with like a serious partner and the way you engage with them. So you have this theory about bidding. Yeah. So basically there are moments that have outsized significance and importance in your relationship. And I think if we can pay attention to these moments, we can maybe be a little bit more lax on the rest of them. Like, you don't need to be incredibly present, working on your relationship at every single moment. We're all tired. Nobody has time to do that. But if you can take these individual moments

that make a real difference and really focus on them, our relationships can feel a lot better. And bidding is one of those moments. This is from research from the Gottman, who are sort of the leaders of couples therapy research. And they found that when couples turn towards their partner's bids, they're going to be in much happier, much more satisfied long-term relationships

and turning away from their partner's bids as outsized negative effects on relationships. So a bid is like, hey, look at this meme that I have on my phone. If you're just like ignore them, that's turning away from your partner's bid. That is avoiding your partner's bed. You feel like, oh, it's just like a little moment. They're just trying to show me a meme, but that's actually going to have an outsized negative effect on the relationship.

So you really want to look for these little moments where your partner is like, maybe it feels silly, but they're trying to bid for you. They're trying to reach out to you and lean into those moments because that's, It's going to make them feel seen. It's going to make them feel really connected to you. I agree with you. I don't conone cheating. But when people cheat, you often hear them say, I don't feel like my partner sees me.

I don't feel like they listen to me. I don't think they're like checking in with me. And it's, you know, when you add up all those little moments of, I sent you this funny thing or I'm trying to tell you this thing that happened at the grocery store. And you've ignored all of them. I think we really deeply want to be seen and heard by our partners. Yeah, I think so too. And our phones, again, because our phones are so addictive.

We are often on our phones and we're like kind of in that scroll hole. and you have to, I think, consciously tell yourself, it's going to feel better to, like, connect with this. And if you can find yourself in relationship moments where the phone is fully put away, I think having a few of those throughout your week is really, really important to create the space to have that connection.

There's this article, maybe it's from the Gottman's. It was a couple, and, like, it was, the example they used was when you're out with your partner and you say, like, look at that bird or something. Do you know the bird thing? Yeah, yeah, that's from the Gottman's. It is. That's the original example of bidding.

So it's just like if you're out with your partner and your partner is like, hey, babe, like, look at that beautiful bird, and you either compliment the bird, look at the bird with them. You kind of are neutral about the bird or you, like, turn away from the bird. And that's the original example of, like, you literally don't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we all know this and we know how it feels to be on both ends of it, and we know when we see it in other couples, and it hurts to have it done and also to see it in other people, because it, what are the four horsemen of the four horsemen of the apocalypse? Yeah, there's defensiveness.

contempt, criticism, and one I always forget. We all always forget one. But this is just like, all you're doing is like seeing them, validating them, showing that you give a shit about the shit that they give a shit about. Yeah. Well, and I think that then I'm like, okay, so why is this happening? And I think a lot of people are like, I think it's tracing it back to the why can be really helpful for solving these types of issues.

So I do think the phone is a really big problem. I also think the energy conversation is a really big problem. If you're working so hard and so burnt out that at the end of every single day, when your partner is trying to bid, you're too exhausted to receive those bids. Let's not try to address the bidding first. Let's try to address that level of exhaustion. So we're not getting to the place where we can't relationally interact in the first place. I think mental load is another thing where a lot of people feel like they're taking on so much of the mental load in their relationships,

that when their partner is trying to bid about something, they're like, well, I'm in my head making the grocery list. I'm figuring out when the kids are going to be picked up. I'm figuring out what our plans are for this weekend. They're like, I don't want to respond to your bid because that mental load inequity feels like it's taking up so much brain space. So let's go backward to that route and try to address those inequities before we're trying to like, be like, yeah, that was a great shot, babe. But also, like, you could be annoyed with your partner.

And there's a world in which this is happening and it's too early in a relationship and you're not, you know, married and you don't have kids. And this might not be your person. I don't know. Like, I think sometimes we know when it's time to call it quits because you're you're like, I'm just annoyed by this person. I don't care about this stuff that they care about. There's really interesting research that shows that when we are in love,

we won't get the ick. So, like, if you get the ick, there's a sign that you are not in love. That's what I'm saying. Well, I think that those things seem adorable. Yeah, no, you literally are like, oh my God, they left their socks on the floor. They're so cute. They're, like, marking their space.

It smells like them. But, like, if we get the ick from it, it's like that is, our brain wants us to love the people that we love. Our brain is always compensating for those, little nitpicky moments if we are in love. And I'm not saying like if your partner leaves their socks on the floor and it annoys you, that means you're not in love. Obviously there's like a lot of complexities of living together for a very long time.

But if you start to get the ick from a lot of things you didn't get the ick from before, I don't think that's like a funny write-it-off thing. I think that's like a serious flag that you need to say like what is going on in this relationship. Absolutely. And you think about in the beginning of a relationship like when those things happen, you might get the ick. But like in a relationship, those things are quirky, they're cute.

It's what makes them them. I think about that with my friends too. Like, you ever had like a falling out with a friend and all of a sudden it becomes like so easy to talk shit on the stuff that like made them unique? But you're like it when we were friends. I love those things. I love those things. Yes. But now that we're kind of on the outs a little bit, I roast you with my other friends.

I can't stand you. And that's kind of the same thing to me. And did you ever like, so my last relationship when it was ending, I remember thinking like, I don't care about anything you have to say. I don't care about your hobbies and your dumb or marble movies and how you spent your fucking. and day. I don't care. And like, when you do get to the point where you're like, yes. I don't want to listen to any of your bids. Anything you've said to me now that I've got home, I actually don't care. Right. That's my point. It was time to break up. It was time to break up. Rain and I, what we noticed a lot, I mean, in our own relationships and in other

couples is how someone acts when their partner is telling a story. And I, that is so interesting. I grew up where we would have dinner together as a family. My mom would tell stories about her day. And I just, I mean, not that my dad was hanging on every word, but like he laughed. and he was looking up from his meal and he was engaging. And I just feel like I remember that, that they just listen to each other and admire each other in that way. And we've watched couples, one couple we know that, like, to watch her tell the story and he's interjecting,

that's not how it went and he's just not validating her. And he feels like it needs to cut her down. He just won't let her tell the story. He kind of has to shame her a little. and versus the couples we all know who it's like, like, babe, tell them about that thing that happened at work. And they're like prompting the story and then saying, oh my gosh, you didn't even, you left out the best part with your boss and like, well. Ashley and I feel like we tell stories like that. Like I love tag teaming a story at dinner like with her and like friends because I just feel like it's so fun to go back and forth about what you've brought to saying.

And like just like listen to each other. And like it's the difference between like the energy is elevating, elevating, elevating, you're like stacking it on top of each other versus like cutting it down, cutting it down. And even just paying attention. You know, I mean, there's times, I mean, Rayna and I had a group dinner. We've heard these stories a million times. You know, like, Raina's been at dinner. She's like, I know how Ashley got engaged. She's like, I'm going to scroll for a minute if you guys don't mind.

No, but it's just like if it's not that case, which again, but it's, are you even paying attention? Are you eye rolling? Like, that's the contempt and that's at its deepest level. It's like your partner is speaking in a group setting and you're, you literally seem annoyed with them. Well, and I also think. I think like a core of storytelling is that it's often not about the story. It's about what the person's trying to say. So there's like the surface level and then there's the underneath level.

And what your partner's trying to do in those moments is often shine. And if you're not excited to see your partner shine, like that's not great. Yeah. This leads us into conversations in general. We liked a clip that you posted about couples falling into the rut of when they're just talking logistics, which often, I mean, I give more grace to families and kids and you really got to like. plan more and discuss how to like, you know, keep the kids alive and thriving. But just in general.

And I think that we're always trying to like grow and evolve and change ourselves. And yet we don't often create the space for the people that we love the most to do that as well. Or to recognize that they're doing that as well. Our partners are different people than when we met them. They're different people than they were six months ago. They're different people than they were a year ago. And we need to get to know those different people along the way.

otherwise, they're not going to feel that same level of connection with us. So I think it's about, one, consciously trying to up-level your conversations to talk about ideas and things. My husband and I do an articles club every Wednesday, so we'll each read an article, and then we'll bring, like, the article to each other, we'll talk through it, we'll talk about what ideas it sparked. I'm a really big on like, you need different inputs to have different outputs. I think we put a lot of conversational pressure on ourselves to just have great ideas

to talk about all the time. It's like, no, like listen to a podcast. read a book, read an article, that's going to give you the things. Ask chat GPT for conversation starters. You know what I mean? Give yourself the tools to have those deeper conversations. And then consciously check in with your partner. Maybe they didn't like this type of TV show a year ago. They're not that person anymore. They're a different person. Ask if they like that TV show. Ask if they like this type of experience. Ask if they like going to this type of restaurant. Let your partner grow and change and evolve in the same way that you want to. And that's going to create the basis for like a new

exciting, growing, and evolving relationship. I love that. Do you remember talking to Esther Perel about how we all think we're more dynamic than our partners? It's so true, though, right? We're like, we're on this fucking journey and they're not. Her example was that, like, when we come home from a bad day, it's because, like, we have a lot of stress in our life, and we need more in richness, and we need more hobbies. Like, this thing happened, and when our partner comes home and has a bad day, our partner

is just an asshole. And she, she, we all think we're so. Esther's going to hear this and she's like, that's not how I was said it. That is not true. That's exactly the example. So, like, when we're driving shitty, it's because, like, we're stressed and we're burned out. But when somebody else is driving shitty, they're just being like an asshole to us.

It's all coming back to me. We are the sons of our world. She apprised it to cheating, too, because it's like when other people cheat, they're a piece of shit. But when you cheat, you had a lot of reasons for it. Yeah. So anyways, I think I like this idea, just in general, zooming back out of, like, acknowledging that your partner is

dynamic to checking in with them. I like the idea of sharing articles. I think that like when you're with somebody for a while, the conversation does just become kind of mundane sometimes versus like when people are like, it didn't used to be like this. Like how do I get that spark back? It's like new inputs. Share new stuff. New inputs. My husband and I love to listen to podcasts together. Yeah. You like listen together and then you'll pause and be like what did you think of that? Especially with like sex relationship podcast like this one, I think it can be really helpful to bring up conversations that you might not feel comfortable otherwise having. You're so right. I think a lot of couples fall into a rut of yes, of course, especially if you have kids, and I, again, I get it where it's just logistics,

or all you're doing is talking shit on other people, which, you know, I love to do, but it can't be, it's negative and like watching TV. And that's like really all you got going on and talking about work. And the articles thing, I think, is so important. And that really drew me to my fiancee early on was he was telling me things I didn't know about. Even if he just seen it on TikTok, he like had stuff to share and hobbies, of course, of his own. But stuff. stuff he knew that I didn't know. Do you guys know about my novelty rule? No.

Share it. Oh, a rule theory. So my novelty rule is this neuroscience idea that when we have novel experiences, it slows down our brain's perception of time. So it makes us actually experience our lives is longer and more satisfying. So the way you do the novelty rule is you try to have one smaller novel experience every single week and you do a larger novel experience every single month. So like during the week, it could be wearing a different type of outfit.

It could be making dinner from a cookbook you wouldn't normally. use or something like that. And then once a month, you go have like a little mini adventure. And this is going to rewire your brain. It's going to make you perceive time is going slower. It's going to make your life feel longer and richer. I love bringing this into relationships because we're going to perceive our time with our

partners as more satisfying when we are having novel experiences together. So to your point of like, we're just kind of watching shows together every night, I think there's something really beautiful and comfortable about that. And it's a really important part of a relationship to have that space to like be your loose self. Yeah, to rot. Yeah, you bought on that way too.

And I think having novel experiences together, it's going to give you new stuff to talk about. It's going to give you those feelings of adrenaline and excitement that you're going to attribute to each other per how the entire Bachelor franchise works and tricks them into falling in love via these experiences that are essentially changing their brain chemistry. I love it. I love it. I do with my partner. We try to do our novel adventure every month together, and it's really helped our relationship. I love a day trip.

I love having other couples. Planet Day trip. And you can just like look up fun stuff in your, I did the Paramount tour on Monday here in L.A. and it was so fun. And it was like random. And you could just like look up random stuff in your city. But cooking too.

And that's one of the things I love about my fiance too. He finds these recipes on the internet on TikTok or whatever. He follows a bunch of chefs and he wants to go get the stuff and make it. And sometimes we do it together. And that's something that he does. I'm sure I have my little things too. But I'm just like those things that keep it fresh and exciting And we're talking about the meal and what could we have done different?

I don't know. Does he listen to the podcast? Yeah. I feel like you've given so many compliments to him even in this episode. And I'm like, that must feel so good to like hear your partner view you this way. Yeah, no, I love him a lot. I'm not in the camp of like he's such a like, I like, I just, I think it's really, it's a lost art sometimes to really appreciate your partner. Oh my God.

And I think some people get not roasted for it, but I think that it's like not as cool sometimes to be like, this is the best and they're the best. But like how many times do people say I don't feel appreciated by my partner? Yeah. And I don't feel like they're vocally telling me I'm not appreciating them. And we love it. We love it as people. I think the best foreplay is your partner hyping you up in front of other people.

Like when you're out of bar and your partner is like Liz did this incredible thing or I'm talking about, oh my gosh, you should hear about this thing that happened to Zach. Like that is so sexy to be able to like see yourself through your partner's eyes in that way. It's just, oh, I love it. We just want our partners to think we're the best. Yeah, as we should. As we should. I was talking to my brother, and he went out with me when I was home, and just the two of us

went out and we stayed out late and we had drinks. And one of his friends said, like, oh, Steph let you do that? And he was like, what? He was like, Steph encouraged it. Like, she, I mean, I'm his sister. But even if I wasn't, even if I was just a friend, maybe not like a girlfriend. But, you know, he was like, that was so interesting to me that he was like, you know, it's that old ball and chain.

And on the opposite side, it's like that dumb, my dumb, dusty husband, can't do anything right, he's so stupid. I mean, whatever the trope is on that side. And like, people do these and they lean into them. And it can be funny and it can be for jokes, but there can also be some truth in it. And I don't like it. And I don't want him speaking about me like that. And so I'm not going to do the same. And it was just an interesting conversation I had with my brother where he was like the way a lot of my friends talk about their wives is unrelatable and something I would never do.

Well, and I think we need, it's one of the reasons we need to be careful about who we surround ourselves with because I think that we tend to take on the traits of the people around us. And if you're surrounded with people who are just wanting to shit talk their partner, I think that that can make us want to do that more. I think that's crazy to me. And I think that one of the easiest ways to change that situation is just to be around people who are like, hyping up their partner more. I find it so fascinating people that want to do that because I'm like, you're not making your partner look bad. You are making you look bad. It's crazy to me. And I, listen, I know it is really cool to be like my dusty husband, who fucking cares about him. Who cares how he. looks and what he's doing, but I'm just like, I don't. And also, like, take agency. Like, if it is bad, like, I'm all about, again, to the friendship conversation we're having earlier, like, let's be vulnerable with our friends. Let's bring them problems. Let's, like, talk about the things that we're having a hard time with. But do it in the context of, like, how can we find solutions here that we're working

on this? I love my husband. I want to make this better. If you're just sitting around and complaining without taking any agency, like, what are you doing? So can we wrap up? I'm curious in your relationship. this is probably a load of question, but do you feel like this long-term relationship marriage,

there are like one or two or three things that are you found like so important into keeping it healthy? Was there any big struggle you guys had that you pushed through? I mean, you can share as much as you want. Yeah, and I was, you know, suicidal from anxiety. Obviously that. That's always a problem. Yeah, for me in relationships.

No, we've had so many struggles. Like, I wanted him to propose for like years before he was ready to propose. And I would get drunk and cry about it, which is not the best. communication technique. And he proposed like probably exactly when he would have proposed if I had never done any of that. But I think we've had a lot of struggles over the year. I think that one is allowing the other person to change and really making space for that. I think two is having sex regularly.

Every single sex expert I've had in my podcast has been a fan of scheduling sex. We don't do that. But I do not wait to feel in the mood to have sex. I view sex as like an incredibly important part. of feeling nourished and connected in a relationship. If it's been a while, I'll do it even if I'm like not in the mood. And I assume the mood will follow when it almost always does. Okay.

I love that tip. Something that we've been working on a lot, there's a parenting expert who came on my podcast, Dr. Becky Kennedy. Are you familiar with her work? No, but now I'm not making a note to that. She's interesting because she's a parenting expert and I'm not a parent, but I watch all of her stuff. And I think it's because I want to like reparent myself.

I'm like, oh, like, I wish I'd had that when I was a kid. But she has this idea of most generous interpretation versus least generous interpretation. And she calls it MGI versus LGI. And the most generous interpretation is just taking anything that somebody's saying or doing and you're saying, what is the most generous way that I can interpret this? If they didn't do the dishes when I asked them to do the dishes, what is the most generous way that I can interpret this? If they cut me off in a car, what's the most generous way that I can interpret this? And it's not always going to be true. You're kind of telling yourself a story in your head. But it puts you in a better headspace to approach the situation. And I think a lot of partnership

over the years is really difficult. And if you can approach each other with your most generous interpretation as much of the time as possible, it creates a softness of the connection and it creates the space to grow and evolve together. I love that. And what we see a lot,

especially with relationships that are not healthy or could be towards the end or just obviously going through a rough patch is the least. And it's like, you think your partner's out to get you, you're not in the same team. And it's there, that's the other end of the spectrum.

and I'm sure most days a lot of us just kind of fall in the middle. But I like the, let's overcorrect a little bit to enhance the relationship. I also think choose wisely. And I think there's so many ways to live a good life. And I think one of the most magical things that's happened recently is we've moved away from the idea that you need to get married and live in a single family home and have two kids to live a great life. I have girlfriends who are living.

In this economy? I have girlfriends who are living with a bunch of their girlfriends. and they're raising kids together and they're living an incredible life that way. I have girlfriends who are so happily single and they have no intention of ever having a long-term partner, but they have a lot of community in their lives in other different ways. I have so many friends who have essentially bucked the notion of like this is what life has to be. And I love that we're embracing that because it means you don't have to settle for some shitty guy who's not going to make your life better.

It means that you can pick a partner who is either going to enhance your life or you can do something different. We have so many paths to a great life. And I think that's really important, too. I'm on that path. I think that's amazing. Do you know how many people probably feel so much less alone and more validated in their life choices because they look at how fabulous your life is? And they say, oh my gosh, okay, so that's an option. That's another thing I tell people all the time. We, our brains can't picture what they haven't seen. So you need to actively look for role models who are living these different types of lives to tell your brain that it's possible. And you're being that for people actively every single day.

Thank you. I hope so. You are. Oh my God. I was having a bad day the other day. One of my best friends was like, I look at you as somebody who has achieved this thing and has pushed past hard times in their life. And she's like, you're like the, she didn't say North Star, but you know, I think of myself

the North Star. But I said it for her. But she said to me like, I see what you've been through and it makes me know that I can go through it too and be happy. And that's like, what a compliment. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing.

And I will say the internet. That's like I'm so anti-social media. so anti the internet despite like having a following there and all of that. Yeah, it's necessary. But I do think it's one of the best uses of the internet is you can actively seek out those people. There's every type of person for better and for worse exists on the internet. Find those people who are living these really different types of lives than you

and follow them and make that a possibility for yourself. Oh, Liz. I can't wait to re-listen to this episode. Do you remember the part where somebody called you a North Star? I think I called me a North Star. Five seconds ago. That's the title. I'm just going to clip that and watch it.

Raina is Liz Moody's North Star. The clickbait. Well, you're just phenomenal. I really, really, we both do encourage people to not only read your book, but your social media and your clips are great and your podcast. So tell everybody again where they can find you. Yeah, so the number one place is the Liz Moody podcast. We have episodes every Monday and every Wednesday.

The Monday's like a little shorty. It gives you a little bit of science that will make your week better. We help you stay off your phone. We help you. We have jealousy. Yeah, with the screen time. one we have one about jealousy and comparison. I just did one about like how to not feel behind in life and it's actual real science and tactics to not feel behind in life versus, and that's what

differentiates us. We're not going to just kind of like yell at you into feeling better. We're going to be like, look, I get it. I've been there too. Here's actual science that can help. And then Wednesdays we interview experts and get to hear their take on everything from gut health, relationships to finances, anything and everything that can help you live your healthiest, happiest life. And then I'm on social media at Liz Moody on Instagram and TikTok. And I have a book. A hundred ways to change your life. Oh, yeah.

Get the book, you guys. Listen to the podcast. Follow her on social. I mean, you're just a wealth of really amazing, interesting knowledge. We love your content so much. Thank you so much. You guys are so awesome. I could do this for like, we have been.

17 more hours. And you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta Eat.com. Girls Got to Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is reina. Dot Greenberg. Subscribe on YouTube and of course share this episode with a friend.

And we will see you guys on Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.