Girls Gotta Eat - How Romantic Socialization Has F*cked Us Up with Kara Loewentheil

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

It's not you…it's the brain gap. In this eye-opening episode with author/life coach/podcaster Kara Loewentheil, we're unpacking what the brain gap actually is and how it f*cks you up when it comes to your love life, body image, and more. Kara educates us on the four traps of romantic socialization and why we feel crazy about dating even when we know we shouldn't, how women police themselves with their looks/body/aging and how to stop, why traditional "positive thinking" doesn't work and how to realistically bridge the brain gap, and why feminists struggle with engagement culture. Before Kara joins us, we're recapping our NYC trip, Rayna being extra horny, Ashley's Instagram awakening, the difference between "Daddys" and "Fathers", and poop-gate 2024. Enjoy! Follow Kara on Instagram @karaloewentheil, read her book Take Back Your Brain: How A Sexist Society Gets in Your Head – and How to Get It Out, check out her website, and listen to her podcast UnF*ck Your Brain. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit our website for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Shop Vibes Only. Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your order at quince.com/GGE. Storyworth: Get $10 off your first purchase at storyworth.com/GGE. HungryRoot: Get 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life at hungryroot.com/GGE. Hatch: Get up to 20% off your Hatch device purchase and free shipping at hatch.co/GGE. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's nothing wrong with your brain or wrong with you. Like this is actually a natural outcome of how society has taught you to think. Which is a relief. Another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome. Welcome back. I was like, what am I? Like even one word.

I was like, um, unfucked. Happy Memorial Day, little angels. Happy unofficial start of summer. This is why I wore these pants. I'm just kidding. We shot some content earlier for a thing and I'm still in these. is so weird. You want to match your phone case. I do. I stay on brand. I drove in a heel. That is a safety concern. I, the only time I drive in a heel is like Pittsburgh is the only

play. When I go home to visit my parents, and I'm like, around your parents. I like to look sexy for my dad. I like to look sexy if you're a stepdad. I know when I'm in Pittsburgh and I'm wearing my little panties around ran a stepdad. I always wear a heel. I actually wear the tiniest little pair of pajama panties. I didn't mean to. Yeah. I walked downstairs, which I shouldn't have, not my house, your parents' house, and he was making a sandwich, and I was like, I'm too sexy for this. She's like, can I help you

make a sandwich? Why are you wearing heels in Pittsburgh? I'm just trying to think the only place I wear heels and then drive a car. Because like, when Raina goes to the hometown bars and try to live her hallmark movie. That's when she wears a... Wear them to the cheesecake factory. That's when she wears a stiletto. Well, one other place did I be driving my own

car in a heel. Oh, in LA where I live? It is crazy though. In the place that I live. But I'm like when, have I done this in my life? It's tricky. I feel like it's going to slide. My leg starts to spasm a little bit. It feels really weird. It feels like it shouldn't be legal. Yeah. I feel like you and I just, L.A. in New York,

it's fewer sneakers. I'm not wearing high heels in those cities when I'm driving. If I wear a heel to go out out, out, I'm going out, out, in which case I'm not driving. We're going out top. I think, yeah, I'm going out top. And I got my skinny jeans and my heels. I'm taking an Your ankle boot. Yeah.

Okay. Well, let's thank our partners and we'll get into it. Thanks to Hungry Root for supporting Girls Got to Eat. Right now, Hungry Root is offering our Girls Got to Eat audience 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to Hungryorot.com slash GGEE. And thanks to StoryWorth for sponsoring this episode of Girls Got to Eat, give all the fathers in your life a meaningful gift you'll both cherish for years. Story Worth. Save $10 on your first purchase at StoryWorth.

dot com slash gge and this episode is sponsored by quince they can help you upgrade your wardrobe with luxury essentials at unbeatable prices go to quince.com slash gge for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's quince.com slash gge and please join us in welcoming hatch the new sponsor of girls got to eat hatch is offering you up to 20% off your hatch device purchase and free shipping at hatch dot co slash gge okay storyworth had father in quotes What are you thinking of all the daddies in your life? I knew you were going to, whatever. It's just how hard it was for me to not stop mid-adry and be like,

father allegedly. There's like unconventional families. Your father's allegedly daddy in your life. Yeah. If you don't know who it is. If you call him daddy in bed, like you can send him a story. That's so funny. Someone interprets it like that.

They're like, hey, daddy. got you this book. Someone's boyfriend's like, what? This, like, sweet memory token. They're like, we just started dating. Yeah, you're just talking my dick. I don't know. Girls got it, you told me to get this for my daddy. So I thought it'd be sexy. I think it's like a sexy gift. He's like, why am I getting these emails, but my first job?

We'll talk about it. We love it as a gift. That is so funny. They just, Alex Cooper just starts getting like tons of them sent to her house. Okay, but speaking of Daddy's, we have a new bundle on the Vives Only site, the Daddy's home bundle. That is for the daddy. That is actually for the dad. And not your father. Okay, so guys, don't get it twisted.

Get the story worth for your father. Your real dad. And the cockering bundle for your daddy. Don't get them mixed up. Can you imagine if you got your dad a cockering? My dad is coming to stay with me and he goes, just get the house like dad-proofed. And I was like, what does that mean? He's like, you know what it means.

It's like, like I'm just going to deck out his roomy cock rings. You should be like Ashley's dad does stuff with the sex toys. Ashley's dad's the number one ambassador of vibes only. He makes those amazing videos. And I don't know if my dad could do those kind of videos. Well, you don't know until you know. He can't run free like your dad can. No, Rayna, you don't know that.

When I first did an unboxing with my dad, I know he's funny, but there's a different kind of the cameras on. You've got to be quick with the one-liners. We're not always ready to go, locked and loaded with the one-liners. Like, I like to prep a little. We did this thing this morning. We needed to prep. Like, my dad needs no prep. He's a one-take king.

I know. But he's ready to be silly. Fuck around and find out. Your dad is so quick and clever and well-spoken. He also walks around and farts and tells other people that it was that. Ew. Okay. So just a quick vibes only update.

Yes, we have this bundle called The Daddy's Home. It has our top selling cockering the Richard with a blow gel of your choice, the juicy peach or the vanilla frosty. And then it has the handcuffs, the kinklings. These are our silicone, stretchy, fun handcuffs. So this is like the real spice up yourself. sex life bundle. And if you guys don't know, we have this amazing premium sex toy company called Vibes Only. You can see if you're watching YouTube. And this is the mother of all vibrators that we released last week. This is the Ashley Max. This is truly the most beautiful Excel wand on the

market, the softest with honestly the best orgasm you possibly have, full body has this like deep rumbling. Like a lot of vibrators are just not this powerful. So they just aren't going to give you that type of vibration on your erogenous zones and your hand won't vibrate and the motor is just like second to none and it's so nice to hold so ergonomic it's got the rose gold accents and it really is just like worth every penny it's going to change your life i like it for partner play too like you can just really like use it as like a massager on all the different erogenous zones on your body yeah and it connects to our app everything is Bluetooth all of our toys connect to our apps so there's remote control included for free with every single toy for a little additional price you can control a long

distance. You get him like a massager. You get him yourself a back to massage right now? Yeah. That was on my pussy this morning.

Did you ever do this when your kid? You're like, oh. You know, sometimes I say stuff I'm like, she'll hear it later. What did you say?

I said that was on my pussy this morning where you're rubbing it on your back. This feels nice. Yeah, it's that pussy juice. I'm gonna shut up. Have you? Have you? This guy I've been talking to

told me to shut up and I was like, no one said that to me. It's so long. Like, I feel like shut up is so underused. Like,

Okay, but in a funny, cute way? Shut up can go two ways. I mean, there's a world in which, like, we're over if you say it in the wrong tone. No, no. It was right up the middle. Like, I was trying to make it, and he was like, shut up, you know what I did this for. Like, it really made me laugh, and it's a funny insult. Like, oh, I love it.

People don't tell me to shut up enough. And I'm sure a lot of people want to tell me to shut up. No, I think it's so funny. I'll sometimes just comment that on Instagram. Shut up, Jessica. Like, this girl was trolling me. I was like, shut up Jessica. Like, Brittany Schmidt was like, can we make Shut Up Jessica merch?

It's so funny. Like, I think it's so funny to write, like, if someone says, like, an insane delusional comment. Like, why do we stop saying shut up? Well, so when I was a kid, though, we weren't really allowed to say it. No. We had a swear word. It was like, Jesus Christ. Jesus' name in vain was top.

Oh, Jews don't care about that. I know, but like we're like, he's one of us. We weren't really supposed to say fart. What? But then they loosened up on that. They loosened up on that. I don't know. Who's they?

My parents. Oh. You know where I was raised. Your father? What'd you think I was talking about? In college or something? School. I was at school.

Oh, no. Not in school. Oh. Shut up. You weren't really supposed to say in school, right? I would have gotten hit in the face when I told my mom to shut up. Rain, I wouldn't have, like, said to my parents. But, like, I just even think Matt, we really weren't supposed to say shut up.

But then once you start saying it, you're like, God, it feels so good. The funniest insult, like, he looks like he tells his mom to shut up. Well, that's Marcello's joke. Oh, is that hit? Yeah. Marcello Hernandez does a joke that he says, I look so white. I look like I tell my mom to shut up. Okay.

I was wondering. Raina will just rip off a joke and not know. Sometimes she's said my jokes. I'm like, we spend so much time together. I'm like, who's brain come up with this? Whose cat is this? But just to circle back, Vibesonly.com. Great stuff for Father's Day.

For the Daddy's in your life. The Ashley Max Swan is just second to none. It is just the biggest best even gift you could give somebody. and then the blow gel, of course, the suck and vulva friendly and juicy peach is the flavor of the season. So you guys are really given all those juicy peach blowjobs and we love to see it. I feel like people forget about Father's Day because like who cares about men. But like I feel like Mother's Day gets all the attention. And like for Father's Day, I don't know, you buy like dad like brunch.

Buy him, get him a blowjob. Yeah. A cock ring. Fuck him. Right. Fuck that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck your dad.

Tell your dad to go fuck himself. But I think that you should get the suck and blow gel for your mom. if your parents are still married. Is that what you're saying? To suck your dad off. Braina, what? Are you not talking about your real dad? I'm talking about like ladies getting up for their husbands.

You're going to buy your mom who's suck and blow jail for Father's Day so your dad can get a blow job. That's what you're saying to me. Why not? You're buying your mom a gift for Father's Day so your dad can get a blow job. I thought's what that's what you were saying. Shut up, right. Great call back on the shut up.

Okay, couple things. We have a big announcement next week. We really do. And I know a lot of people tease that, but ours is actually big. It's big. And things are changing.

And it's exciting. And you'll find out next week. Yeah. We're adding a third co-host. Who is it? It's a daddy. No, that's not it. It's Jared.

We just want Jared to. Jared. So much time with him. And Raina's house. And so get ready. You guys. It's going to feel different next week. And that's all.

I don't really know what to say much more. I'll have a little gift for you. Just extra stuff. Yes. That's like, they're like, is it vibrators? Okay. We just go back from New York. What a week?

Best week of my life. Raina. What? You were on one. I've never been this horny. You are so horny. This May. This May.

I'm so horny. But that's how I was last May. I know. That's how you got a boyfriend. But like, what is it? I don't know. I mean, it's gonna be my... It's so funny.

I just, it's spring for me. I've been waiting. I mean, hot take. But like, not to like really bring the mood down, but like, I've just been on a bit of a dry spell. And then I had like this thing with my ex at the end of the year last year. And I like put it to bed. Put him to bed. So, and then I was like, I'm going to get out there.

It's like you killed him. He's so big. And then I put him to bed, you guys. Yeah, he's six feet under. Yeah. And then I was like, I'm going to hit dating. And I've just like, like, been on all these dates and it's just been so brutal and I was just like fuck this I hate this

I cannot be bothered with this and then I don't know may came around but the UTI came around it started with the way it started strong shock to the system you never think a UTI is going to kick off a slutty month but here we are no it really was like a shock to the system is like you're ready to go sis yeah toxic shocks out it was recurring yeah I had a second one I really feel like I'm living free with your boyfriend like we were in the car and I was like we got to stop and get like UTI meds like at the airport like I was like really and you were like like long has been going on with it feeling I was like it's burning and hate like really it's crazy to be so comfortable with somebody's boyfriend you're telling him about your UTI.

No but we're all three on a group chat and we're all in the hotel where we stayed in New York. He came to New York. I mentioned this before for the second half of the week and we were all in a group chat about something plans or whatever and I said he and I are sending these texts from two different toilets so he was pooping in the lobby and I was pooping in the room and again like I I said before I'm not trying to be like a big poop couple. But I mean, we've gone there a little bit. It's definitely more on the table.

Like we're not farting in front of each other. God forbid. Yeah. I'm going to say they have a word. But, you know, it is a little more comfortable. So I sent a text and then I was like if he responds, it's going to be very funny because we're sending this from two different toilets. Like I'm on the eighth floor.

He's in the basement, you know, and we're sending it to you. And then you were like, I poop so much today. I'm like, we have all gone there. I said I poop so much. I feel like I can't believe I'm still alive. And I was like, as a thruple, we are going there. Okay, so that same day, I had all, I forget why we started talking about it, but I was talking to Ryan about something, our video guy.

And I still look at each other. I sent him a screenshot of something he said to me, and it said, Ryan L. And he was like, do you not know my last name? And I was like, no, you're saved as Ryan Lecor, but it's abbreviates the last name. And he said, your name isn't abbreviated on mine. It just says Raina. And so I was like, everybody in my phone is the last name. I didn't just add it, whatever.

And he goes, I don't believe everybody's in your phone is the last name. So I screenshot my text message screen, the whole thing. the whole thing and sent it to him. Yeah. And on that list is the three of us, me, you and your boyfriend, and a text from the last text from me that just says,

I poop so much today. I can't believe I'm alive. No. Oh my God. And then I blamed it on you. I'm texting him right now. I'm going to call him right now. I've calling him right now.

This really happens. He goes, who is that? And I was like, I don't know. And he goes, Ashley. And I was like, go with that. I'll call them right now. Hi, Ryan. You're live on Girls Got to Eat. We're recording. God damn. Hi, baby. I love you. Did Raina, did you see Raina's text, and in it, it said something about pooping, and she didn't take ownership of it? Well, we just wanted to call you and tell you

live on air that it was, in fact, her. She pooped so much. She didn't know how she was alive, and that was a text that she sent to me and Sparkle Eyes. And I just want to clear things up and set the record straight. I am no longer jealous that I'm not in a group chat between. We'll fire it back up. We'll fire it back up if you want to be a part of the poop thruple. All right. I love you.

Are you so attracted to me? Oh, my God. All right, Ryan, we'll talk to you later. We've got to finish this recording. And just let us know when you're getting us that video. We'll talk after. All right. Okay.

Love you. Bye. I can't keep up laughing because I poop so much today. I'm not sure how I'm alive. That's so funny. Also, like, same hotel was the one where I re-sent the voice note to my boyfriend that I originally sent to you. It was just such a good rant. I wanted him to hear it.

And that was the one, same exact hotel where I was like, I have to flush three times to get my poop down because it's one of those deep toilets. Like, what is going on? That was, like, the first. How early hot? Was that like three months into your relationship? It was in the fall. So funny. And we like started dating in May.

But yeah, I mean, something about it. Okay. So we had a great time. New York, Jesus Christ, what a mind fuck. You really go from I hate this fucking city to best city in the world. And this is not a hot take. We lived there for six years. And I felt this when I lived there too.

Like the highs and lows are so extreme. But I forget sometimes how high and low they truly are. How you have these moments of like, oh my God. I am just like waiting in a line for something or something is so annoying or something. or some huge crowd. It's just something that's so frustrating. And then like the next minute, you know, I'm e-biking along the Hudson,

just like wind in my hair. Like there's no better city in the world. It's just crazy. It is the best city in the world. Name another place. There isn't another place that's a better city. It's the best. I like it here.

But New York is the best city in the world. I love it. It beats you down. It beats you so far down. I am hanging on by a thread, you guys. We spent a week there. Yeah. I went out every night.

I've never drank so much. I've never eaten so much. much. I walked seven miles a day. We plans every night. Just like comedy show and dinners and parties. And I like, I ran into Jared's bed the day with him. Like, I'm hanging on by a thread. The whole time I was like, I love it here so much. I have to leave. You were just really on one. I really was. Every good or bad decision is just a seven minute right away. Yeah. Like every night you leave dinner and you're just like the world's just my oyster. I could just walk somewhere in six minutes. I went out to dinner with Melanie at like 8 p.m. on Sunday night and rolled back in at 2 a.m. We went to dinner. I was going to go to

bet at 10 and I was like, let's go to a bunch of bars. I know. Living free. All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll pick this back up. So if you are just living a crazy life, like one might in New York or wherever, your sleep is so important. This is another thing, too. Like, you can't just live that way and be run around all day if you're not getting your sleep. So whatever you need to get your sleep, hatch is really something that I find is such an incredible thing because we all have things that get in the way of our sleep schedule or what you do at night when you should just be unwinding. And we all, all have nighttime habits. We wish we could kick. I'm going to talk about one of mine after this,

actually, a little thing that happened with me recently with my social media. But we're going to tell you about Hatch. Girls Got to Eat is teamed up with Hatch. And Hatch is offering you up to 20% off your Hatch device purchase and free shipping at Hatch.co slash GGE. I could not be more obsessed with my hatch. I have the Hatch restore. It's so beautiful. It's just kind of this like half moon shape. And it sits on my bedside table and just really has like a nice aesthetic in my room. It's just kind of this like neutral color. And what it does is really help you prioritize rest and create bedtime habits and make you feel ready for sleep at night and energized in the morning. So it's really getting you through the night and the next morning. So unlike a traditional alarm or sound machine, the hatch restore uses a

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Visit Hatch.com slash GGE for up to 20% off. So my dad is coming to stay with me. I'm very excited. He's going to be here for four nights. And I feel like sometimes my dad will hit me with a story about his life. Like he went to Europe after college, sold all of his things. bought a motorcycle and motorcycleed around Europe for like a year. And I'm like, where has this story been my whole life? And so he forgets to tell me these things. And I wish there was like a situation in which he could like tell me these. So now there is.

Storyworth is offering $10 off your first purchase at storyworth.com slash gge. So here's all Storyworth works. Each week, storewith emails your loved one, a thought-provoking question that you get to help picks. This is a perfect gift for your dad for Father's Day. And he can work on this and gift you all these memories. And my dad's getting older. I'm at 77.

you know and I just I want to like this is morbid but you know before I can't hear these stories anymore no matter what it's nice to preserve the memories yes and I just love what you said like these stories that you wouldn't know I always think about that your parents have lived so long like I don't know all my parents like amazing stories

like they know all of ours they've been with us our whole life but they had so much life even before us I know so story worse makes the writing process of breeze so all your love one needs to do is respond to that email with a story so long or short doesn't matter and you'll be email a copy of your loved one's responses over the course of the year. I just think it's so sweet. And after that year, a fine story that compiles your loved ones stories and photos through a beautiful

keepsake, hardcover book that you'll be able to share and revisit for generations to come. I mean, I just think of this, like you can buy it for your father. Obviously, you can buy it for your partner. So, you know, your husband or your baby daddy. Yeah, some of the questions, what is one of the craziest things that's ever happened to you? What advice would you give to a family member about to go to college? What is your favorite cultural tradition when you were growing up. What is some of the best advice your father ever gave you? I love that. It's just so sentimental. Give all the fathers in your life a unique heartfelt gift that you'll all cherish for years. Storyworth. Right now, save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.com slash gge.

That's storyworth.com slash gge to save $10 on your first purchase. So back to New York. I just loved it so much. Sometimes I just feel unattractive in L.A. And boy, let me tell you, I have never felt hotter or gotten more attention in my life than in New York. vacation energy too. You know, you're like, I'm just going to, I fuck everybody here. Yeah. I just, I loved it. I remembered loving it again. Great weather. We saw Francis Ellis and Jared, knew a great comedy show. We recorded with Vinny from Jersey Shore. Then he hopped on your show. Yeah, he came to a lot of great recording. So we have his episode coming up, Serena Kerrigan's coming up. Mm-hmm. Just really great. Yeah. And I mentioned this before, but my boyfriend came in. We

celebrate our one year anniversary and kind of recreated our first official date, which was actually in New York. It was a few weeks after what the technical anniversary was. But we just had a good great time. Like, we saw Shabuzi, which, I mean, I hope you guys know Shibuzi. Like, I'd heard of him. And then he had two tracks on the Beyonce Cowboy Carter album. I'm like, okay, this guy's going to blow up. Obviously, he's got the Beyonce's deal of approval. Again, he was an artist and had an incredible catalog before that. But, and then the cover of Tipsy, a bar song is just the song of the summer. I've never loved a song this much. Never, ever. And so I just was like, okay, I'm going to go a little deeper on this guy and his music and just could not love him more. So we got to see him at

Baby's All right in Brooklyn, which is like a 300 person venue. To see someone, I just know he's going to be so big. He already is. And to see them in that intimate of a venue, it was incredible. I was like, I don't know when anyone would ever get to see this guy in a small intimate venue like this. And he just couldn't have been like more incredible. I loved it so, so much. So I just want to hype shibusi.

And I think some of my favorite things about the weekend, like, you know, I love to city bike. It's like, what? I'm thinking about what you ate. this weekend. You guys, Ashley had this bag of nuts. I've never seen you do anything like this. We flew next to each other on plane and I saw her eating as bag and nuts on the plane. And then a couple days later I went to her hotel room and there was like no food in the room except this bag of nuts right next to her bed. I'm like, she's really into these nuts. And I was trying to have some and you're like, that's my special bag of nuts.

I made this mix myself. And you're like, I add macadamian nuts in there. They're expensive. Like you can't afford macadamia nuts. Mac nuts are so expensive. Like you don't have a huge podcast. You can't afford those nuts. And then we went out to WTS Studios and you brought your bag of nuts to a one hour recording. Like it was your emotional support nuts. Right.

You just kept bringing them everywhere. When you said are those your emotional support nuts? I laughed sore. I couldn't stop laughing. We were recording with Serena and I just kept like giggling, bubbling up inside of me. And then we got back to your house Monday night in L.A. And I was like, I'm kind of hungry. and you were like, can I interest you in some nuts?

And then would you send me another phone of them today? Here's the thing. I love to have a healthy snack around because it's hard to find a healthy snack. And especially in New York. So you're running around New York all day. You're burning so many more calories, city biking, walking, all those steps. And then I'm like, what am I going to eat? And I can't sit for a meal.

Right. I know I'm going to dinner. So I don't want to run into a bodega and get like a giant sandwich that's going to sit in my stomach. And then I'm going full before dinner. Yeah. I like to roll into dinner hungry. So sometimes I'll just have a snack and I do get really hungry and I don't feel good. Like I get hangary.

Yeah, me too. You were toting around that bag of nuts everywhere. Like it was a teddy bear. It was crazy. Well, I just like to have a snack on hand. I don't do it here. You don't. But in New York, you got to be prepared.

Because there isn't 19 stores on every block. Not all nuts are created equal and I am in my macnut era. And so I love this trail mix from Whole Foods and then I put mac nuts in it. And I make like a special mix. I know if you make a special fix. And I like to have it in the hotel room, so you have a healthy snack. Totally. I've been bringing nuts on the road.

You have? You do to Boston? I don't bring them to, like, stay at my boyfriend's house. But you bring them to New York. To hotels! You are not, we're not. I went to West Side Market three times while we were in New York. And I didn't have to waste my time doing that because I brought my own from home.

Well, I walked seven miles a day. I'm trying to get those steps in because I wasn't as much sex as you were. Not no sex, but less sex than you. Yeah. The walking. biking, the sex. I need those nuts to refuel. You need these nuts. I need these nuts. Anyways, I derailed you, but I just want to talk about your nuts. No, it was like very funny. No, we just had like such a fun time. And I have to tell you

like one thing. We told you this in the car together. But we, you know, we had her, we had our year. And the night before like the year anniversary. So I fell asleep. We were like watching the Ashley Madison doc, which I loved by the way. Just like watching it in the hotel room. And like, I just kind of fell asleep on his shoulder and like really drooled on it. Like it was. was a huge wet spot and he got up to go to the bathroom and he came back he just like pointed to it I was like oh my I went 365 days before I literally drooled that's a good run have you ever drooled on your partner like that because you drew a lot I drool a lot like the pillows are covered right so I don't know I need like a splash card on the pillows though so they probably see that but I don't know about

somebody's body that's what I'm saying it's like it hits different that's pretty funny I was like oh my God. It's funny you waited one year. You're like, where are you gone? Well, I also just like, I fell asleep hard. You know, like when you're watching something so tired from the day, you know, and I like was just laying on him. I don't sleep all night laying on him. You know, that's not like my comfort level. Like I don't need to be all wrapped around him. I'm all like spoon here and there. And then we kind of roll away from each other. But I was like, oh my God. I was like, wet. It's just, it's funny you waited a year because you're just like, where are you going to go? You're not going to leave me. I mean, I didn't plan it like that. I would have kept going. Your mouth did. Yeah. My mouth knew. Okay. And the last thing I did want to mention was something that happened a few days before we left

for New York. It was May 11th, to be exact, I remember the date. I got locked out of my Instagram account for three days and some change. And if I tried to look at it from another account, it looked like not gone, but like blocked almost, like just, I don't know, disabled. Like, I don't know what happened to it. This happened to me so many years ago with my other account, Brose being basic. And so I was trying not to panic because I panicked then.

I was like, oh my God, like all hands on deck. Like I've lost my livelihood, you know. And I was just like, this is an ideal. And I like freaked out a little bit. I texted you. I was like, I don't know what's going on. Like, do you have any insight? But like, why would you have any more insight than I would?

Whatever. But bottom line, I just like couldn't get into it. And I texted some friends and the group chat and they were like, well, we have contacts there. So I just like didn't feel worried. Like I was like, it's fine. But I was a little casual about it. I had like an underlying feeling of a little bit of panic.

I mean, I would hate if that was gone. You know, just, oh, yeah. Following I built, but just all my memories, too, you know. And so I was trying to think too deeply about it. And I was like, I'm really just going to enjoy the break. I really have felt like I've spent too much time on social media. I don't ever look at my screen time or I don't set limits. I just like don't want to know.

I just actively avoid it. And I was like, I just want to see what this feels like. And I could not have, like, loved it more. It was like three full days and then the next morning. I finally was able to get back into it. And I really loved it. I feel like a three-day detox really did something for me personally. And in that time, I set up limits for it. And so I have a 90-minute max on Instagram and TikTok. I mean, that's my social time limit. And I've adhered to it. And like, it tells you, I really, I didn't, I had never done this before. So it warned you when you're almost up. And then the icon on your phone goes dark and it has a little hourglass next to it that's like your time limit has been reached. And when you try to lock, it's not a hot take. if you have these, but you try to lock back in and it tells you like your limits up, do you want to bypass it? And I'll, you know, decide to or not.

It's not, if there's something I need to do on it, I'll do it. But I just feel differently. I feel like a lot of the content, obviously, this is not a hot take. It's just kind of meant to inflame you and upset you, not to mention like the things people say, but more so just like once you really take a little, I'm not trying to sound so profound. I took three days off. But, you know, when you go back in, you're kind of like, God, like everything really does feel like it's clickbait. It's meant to divide people and rile them up. And of course, I can really just mute and unfollow and tailor my feed. But I just think a lot of what we see on social media can be toxic.

And of course, I want to stay informed. And it's such a luxury to have and all the things we use it for. We need it for our job. Like, I'm not shitting all over it, but I think I just personally needed to be on it less. And I was able to accomplish that in a three-day detox, I guess, not self-imposed, but I just kind of had to. and I decided to like enjoy it and use it to my benefit instead of like spiraling about it. And of a sudden girls got to eat a little bit in vibes only.

But like for me personally, I was just like, I want to change my habits with this. You scroll a lot and late at night too. Yeah. Listen, I say this as somebody who's just as addicted as anybody else. But like you said to me the other day like you paid attention to this documentary more than you ever normally would because you're like, usually I'm just scrolling when I'm like doing stuff. You know me at least I do take a walk every day without my phone and I put it down when I'm like at dinner. Like you won't hear from me. but like I do think that nobody loves to be in the loop and be informed as much as you.

Yeah. And so you are just like always on. I think late at night you scroll. And so like to set those timer as much feel really good. I mean, you can still scroll at night and go to sleep. I can't. So like it's not good quality sleep. It sucks.

You know what I mean? Like it still affects me. I can't look at my phone after 10. If I look at it, like it's so crazy. If I glance at it, I'll never go to sleep again. Right. So if I just, if I look at it all so I've had to like put it away. But yeah, you will scroll and you'll send me all the side.

I always wake up to funny stuff. I did wake up to a cute thing from Unitech. Yeah. So I missed it a little bit. But yeah, you scroll a lot and late at night and like it's nice to just take a little break, correct the behavior. And then just what you're consuming. Again, it's good to stay informed. I'm not trying to bury my head in the sand.

Like, don't get a twisted. I want to still be impactful and speak out about things and whatnot. That's not it. But like sometimes it's like I didn't need to see that headline that doesn't really impact me. And now in the comment section just for entertainment value, just kind of soaking all this up. Like for what? you know, I'm really trying to filter what goes in and out of my brain and just be more present, too. And I don't feel the need to look at my Instagram at a stoplight or look at it during dinner. And I just want to be more present. And again, like, I know people have different things that they do. Like, I know some people just take the app off their phone for extended periods of time. Like, we still need to use it for work. I'm not really going to do that. But for me, at least those three days. And then now the time limit has helped. And so that's all I can really offer. I've noticed a difference. Thanks. I just, I feel like you're a little more doesn't. Yeah, you know, and I do get less, I get less memes from you. Well, that was that those three

days. You were like, can you please fix this? I'm like, I'm trying, but I'm kind of like, I'm not trying that hard. You know, like, I can't believe I'm enjoying this. Well, this funny thing happened. So you texted me at night, like right before we went to sleep, you said like, oh, I can't get into my Instagram, whatever. And I, so I knew that you couldn't get in. And then your last text to me, I was asleep, but you said you'd had sort of like an argument with the guy who lives next door. And I woke up and I read those two things. I knew that you. You know that. You know, you were like fine. I knew that the Instagram was down and whatever. I knew that you've had some arguments that guy before. So it's like not special. My neighbor and I do not get along.

And it's his fault. But it's so funny because I woke up in the morning and I got a text from your boyfriend and Sparkle Eyes was like, you heard from Ashley today. And I was like, no, and he's like her Instagram's down. And I was like, oh, no, that's fine. Like it's not a thing. It's like, we know about this. We're on it. It's a family. We're on it. And he's like, I usually hear from her by now. And I'm like, oh my God, the last text I got from her was like, I had a fight with this man last night. And then I'm like, I'm sure it's fine. And then I started doing a self-talk.

I'm like spiraling a little bit because he's like, I usually hear from her by eight. And I was like, you're new around here. And Ashley used to sleep a lot later. And I was just like spirally like, is she okay? What happened? Can I do the podcast by myself? Like what's going to have? And I was like, I will drive over there if I do not hear from her until 10.

I text you. I was like, hey, what's up? You don't respond. I was like, I'm worried about you. Nothing. It was 947. I walked downstairs. I grabbed my car keys.

I was like, I'm going over there. and he was like, I just heard from her. And I was like, oh, my God. I started to get really scared. Because, like, you told me this whole thing about your neighbor. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know what people do. Yeah.

And it's so funny that he was like, her Instagram's down. And I'm not hearing from her. And I didn't even want to, I don't want to scare him and be like, she also got an altercation with another man last night. Right. I know. And I haven't really talked about this, but my neighbor, like, that's being corrected, but the neighbors have, like, insane dogs.

No, they're insane. No, it's, it's not. It's been, I've been. as kind as possible, and I've not been reciprocated with kindness back. I've been yelled at, and it's been a little unnerving, and now my landlord's on top of it, and we're working through it. And I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel and whatever. So I think it's fine. But yeah, I woke up and I had so many texts from you guys. And I usually sleep a little later on the weekends. It was like a Sunday morning. I don't know why I got let him get in my head. Like, I haven't

know you so long. I was like, she used to sleep in later. He usually does hear for me by like 9.30. So yes, I can understand why 10 a.m. was the cutoff of like, I'm going over. I was like, I'm going to go over there. Don't worry. I don't like I have a key to your house. I should get that. Oh, yeah. You can get one.

No. Everybody has a key to my house. There's so many keys floating around. Yeah, you, Tessa, everybody, literally everybody. But I'm okay. And I feel good about it. And if you feel like you are scrolling too much and it's impacting your, you know, mental health in any way, figure out how to take a break or try those limits.

And, you know, it's funny because I refuse to look at that information. That's a little sick. Like, I was like, I never want to know how much time I'm spent. on it. Like, is that kind of weird? It's kind of sick. You don't get that text message on Sunday mornings? It says what your screen does? No, I've never turned it on. Never, rena. Like, I feel like I have almost, I didn't want to know. And it's like a thing you don't want to look. And now I've, like, seen the light. And I'm like, I am proud that I'm cutting myself off at 90 minutes a day. And keep in mind, a lot of that is work stuff we got to do. I mean, I think there's just so many people

that need to hear from us. Like, I actually feel guilty when I take an hour. Like, I do, I take like an hour. I take a walk. I just, or if I bring it, I'll listen to my music and I'll just turn on do not disturb. Like, I do not respond. Nobody will hear from me if I go to dinner or a date. Like, you don't really hear from me. But, like, I do feel kind of bags. Like, people need to hear from us. Oh, yeah. Also, there's gossip in the world to know about. Yeah, of course. We got to stay up to date on stuff, too. Like, I don't want to be so removed. And again, I don't want to, like, ignore the important news things going on in the world. But I got to filter better. Yeah. Like, how would I know what all the Vanderpun people are doing? Right. If I was on Instagram.

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know that we sent you. Okay. Let's get into it. All right, guys, we are really excited to welcome our guest to the show today. She is a master certified life coach. founder of the School of New Feminist Thought and host of the top ranked podcast that we've been on, unfuck your brain, feminist self-help for everyone with over 50 million downloads. Her first book, Tate Back Your Brain,

how a sexist society gets in your head and how to get it out. It's out now. Please welcome to the show. Kara Lowenthal. Oh, so good. You doubted yourself. That's why I'm here.

I'm here to solve this. You were doing it right and you doubted yourself anyway. That is the socialization right there. That was really, that was it. Ruding for you. I know. I was like everyone's counting on you.

We're all rooting for you. That was like the exact thing I teach and talk about that women are doing things right and they always think they're doing them wrong. Well, I introduce every guest every week for six and a half years. It's Carl Lowenthal, like the Nile. Exactly. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me.

We're so excited to have you. We did your podcast and it was just the best conversation. Thank you. I really was like going into it. Like we need to be on our game. Her's like really smart and legit. And I want to, you know. The good news for you is I'm on Eastern time.

So I got like five hours of sleep. So we can dumb it down. Yeah. So this is the earliest we've ever recorded with somebody. Nine in the morning. We're excited to you. I feel very honored. I feel ready to do it.

Are you a morning person? I didn't used to be and my identity hasn't caught up with my like hormonal middle age reality. I feel like because now my body does like to wake up at 630. Really? Think of myself as somebody who wants to get up at 630. Okay. So I guess yes, but I can't embrace it. I'm not one of the people's like, yes.

I run a 5K, and then I meditate for an hour. No one likes those people. I know. Well, I feel like that's in L.A. That seems like an L.A. that seems like a L.A. vibe. Cold plunge. Yeah.

But like, come on. I do take a cold shower. I have to do. I have to admit. In the morning? I do. Okay. I mean, it's so good for you.

It helps with like dopamine regulation somehow. I can focus better during the day. Yeah. But I would never take a cold plunge. That seems terrifying. I just take a hot shower and I put on cold for a minute. Like this is not, oh, okay.

Not an ice bath situation. Yeah, attainable. Attainable. And so you live in New York. I live in Brooklyn, also adjusting to. Well, let's, like, catch up on you, because you open the book talking about,

I mean, you're incredibly accomplished and, like, the self-talk you had and where you ended up today, and maybe we can just, like, catch up the audience on who you want. Yeah, what am I doing here? How did I get here? I just wandered in off the street. It's L.A., that happens.

So I grew up on a very, like, traditional academic career path. I know we've talked about. I went to Yale. I went to Harvard Law School. I clerked for a judge. I was sort of just doing this very like mainstream prestigious career path and being very invested in that. That was like a big part of my self confidence such as it was. And my identity was like, you know, not just being smart, but like having a job that signaled

like intellectual prestige to the rest of the world. That was something I was really raised to value. And I then, you know, decide to quit and become a life coach on the internet instead. And that was a real. That took a lot of thought work. Well, okay. But like I like, I like, that you opened it with like, hey, like Harvard Yale. Because they're like Blu-ray past that double Ivy League. Well, there's a lot of life coaches out there that are just... It's true. It's shocking news, but we didn't all go to Harvard and Yale. That is true. But some of them are just yoga teachers.

I don't want to be insulting, but that word gets thrown around. So much hate mail from the yoga teachers. Like, now look what we've done. The meanest people on the internet, I go to their, they're like, you're fat and ugly. I go to their profile. It's a love and love it. Yeah, of course. It's always lovingly. Anyways, yeah. Anyways, we love our yogies. We love all this in. But there's a, yeah, I couldn't live without yoga. But some of you are really mean. But I, that work is thrown around.

I mean, is there an actual certification? Like any newer industry or field, it's not currently all that regulated. I mean, I will say that was also the case with psychology 100 or 120 years ago, right? So it's like we sort of think that whatever time we're existing in, anything that seems like mainstream or credentialed, were like, okay, that's like a very objective, real science. But, you know, 100, 150 years ago, people who were starting to psychology, people were like, what are they talking about? What do you mean you're unconscious?

What a weird, wacko thing to talk about. So they're all different coaching certifications. I'm a certified master coach through the life coach school, which is where I got certified. There are many different, you know, I really think of like coaching therapy, even like spiritual leaders, advice. It's like a big van diagram, right? And it's sort of like in all of these areas, there are people who are really good at what they do or really bad. You know, they're like great coaches and great therapists and terrible

coaches and terrible therapists. And we have had a lot of different roles for people in society that were essentially the role of just like trying to help humans human better and like make sense of the world. So like religious leaders, shamans, village elders, coaches, therapists. I feel like these people are all philosophers part of the same tradition. And also they're great yoga teachers. Yeah. We don't want to. Don't come for us. We don't want to insult the yoga from you. We don't want to insult the community. I just can't show up to yoga. Yeah, I was going to say, no, she doesn't have to show up to yoga and get like the stank. No, there is, again, it's a spectrum. There's certification programs, but it's not nationally regulated by a board, the way that

there's a board of psychology, which I learned a lot about when I was researching sexual health certifications. Okay. Okay. So you had like a crisis and of like, what am I doing with my life? And you pivoted. Yeah, I think it was my parents, I'm sure thought it was like some kind of quarter life crisis. I think for me it was more that I had been, I don't call myself a seeker because that always sounds like spiritual and woo in a way I really wasn't but like when I was 16 I told my parents I wanted to go to therapy I was the first person my family to go therapy I was just like I've always just I think been like there's got to be a better way to do this like to be a human than most people seem to know like most people seem pretty reactive and unhappy and like there's

got to be a better way so I was like went to therapy for a long time I got into yoga and all the things did meditate on meditation you go you know listen I'm out so I'm out for me I'm out the yoga game. No, I still like yoga. But I sort of did all those things. It's almost sort of like the young mainstream women starter pack of trying to find meaning or trying to fix yourself. And I found coaching and the coaching style that I learned from my teacher,

which is the base of my work. So it wasn't exactly a crisis, but I think it just made such a big difference in my life. Yeah. I had always felt about law that even though I was pretty good at it, I wasn't bringing some unique genius to that that nobody else would bring. I was an academic. So in some way, yes, I have different ideas than the next person would have

who had my position. But it just didn't feel like my unique kind of zone of genius, even though I hate that word, because that's like such a, no, I love that. I actually love that framing. But coaching did.

Like, I felt like I saw this gap in coaching. Yeah. That people were not talking about the influence of society on women's brains. And I was like, that is like something unique that I can offer the world that if I don't do that, it doesn't seem like somebody else is doing it. Okay.

So I felt like that was more what pushed me over the edge. Okay. And something you wrote about in the intro of the book that really resonated with me is you said like even in my coaching business, I had these women coming to me. They were successful and beautiful and amazing and it checked all these boxes and they hate themselves. And I couldn't really understand why. And it sounded like you had some of that self-talk too of like, I went to Harvard law.

I'm successful. I did all the things you're supposed to do. Like I still don't like certain things about myself. Why can't I just like relax? So I also just like, and we're talk about the brain gap. But I think we all get in this space where we're like, I'd wish I could just unfuck my brain. Just turn it off. Just turn it off.

Like I consider myself a pretty happy, stable, healthy person and day to day, you know, I'm just raw dog and no meds, you know, live in life. And I still get in this place where I'm like, I just, why am I, why am these thoughts coming to my head? Like last night I was just like packing. And, you know, you're like, your mind's working. You're like, why is it bad things? You know, like, what can I do to think good things while I'm mindlessly doing the same? Why can't the vacuum in my mind be filled with positive thinking? Isn't that so interesting? Like I pack and the whole time I go, that's not going to fit you. That's not going to look good on you. That used to fit. better and why can I just be proud that I can afford this trip to New York and I'm going my best friend and I have great stuff. You know? Right. Like I was like, okay, I actually took a moment was like bad thoughts out and try to get some good ones in. I just, I don't know what I was like thinking about like the sex I'm going to have this weekend. I'm like I'm just trying to put good stuff in. Yeah. Like I'm glad that was on the good list at least. Yeah. Can you imagine? Those are the negative. So yeah, so what is the brain gap. Yeah. I think what you're describing is super common and I was at my San Francisco book tour party last night and my friend who's a

mindfulness influence therapist was doing it with me. And she said that her teacher taught her this phrase that I now love that was the mind is shameless. It will think anything. Right. It's like your brain is not sort of just delivering an important update about reality to you, which is sort of how it feels. Your brain is just like regurgitating like a record that's been left on that no one's

attending. Right. It's just like sort of replaying just stuff you've been taught to think and things you heard your parents say and what do you absorb from society and what is the media. say about what it's like all going in there and then it's just like playing on repeat and so it's like your brain impores a vacuum you're just trying to pack and your brain's like but women get older and then they lose their sex appeal and also you're probably stupider than you think like that's what's happening right here's the thing someone said to you on the internet right you know here's

something someone said to you when you were 13 and I've been turning that over since and I'd like to chat about it with you right now like that's what your brain is like and because we don't know about our brains we're like I guess that is really important what that person said when I was 13 and I should think about it. But actually your brain is just sort of regurgitating all the time. It's sort of like churning and spinning and it doesn't really mean anything. And so the brain gap that I talk about in the book is this gap between exactly what we're describing how we want to think and feel.

I want to feel proud that I'm going to New York, that I made the money to afford this trip, that I'm going with my best friend, that I'm going to have good sex later. That's how I want to feel. And when I look at my life, it seems like those thoughts should be natural. But actually what my brain is saying is like, I can't believe you gain two pounds. now that skirt doesn't fit and what about that person who thought your thighs were lumpy, right? Right. That's that gap.

And I think that women really haven't had a way to close that because partly because the way we frame it, I think, is not helpful in that. We just naturally say, well, you know, I want to think this, but I feel this way. And when we talk about it as a conflict between a thought and a feeling, we don't know how to solve that. What are you supposed to do about that, right? But actually, those are just two different thought patterns. One thought pattern is like those tracks were laid down and recorded in the, the studio very early on, right? Since you are a baby, you've been absorbing what society values about women. How does society talk about women? How did you hear the women in your life

talk about themselves or their lives or their bodies? Like, that stuff gets absorbed so early and it really imprints in your brain. And then as you get older, you start trying to like layer on more positive thoughts like now. But that original track is still in there. And so the gap between those things is why you're like ping ponging. And so what I really try to teach in the book is the only way to close that brain gap is to bring them together by consciously rewiring your brain to think the way you want to. But you have to go step by step. You can't just be like, I don't like those old bad thoughts. Let me try to get rid of them. Like what you're, you know, you're trying to like, just bring in the positive and ignore those. Right. I will not think them.

Yeah, that doesn't work. You can't like tell your brain to stop thinking something. What you have to do is practice thinking something new. And generally we try to jump to something too positive. And then we don't believe it. Okay. So that's why positive thinking and affirmations don't really work. And that's why the technique of trying to just like focus on the positive often doesn't work. Because it's sort of not speaking to those original thoughts. It's not like mollifying those concerns kind of. So if your brain thinks it's spotted at danger, which for women is like, you look like you're aging. Someone might not like how you look or someone might think you're stupid. Like our brains associate that with danger being rejected, not being worthy, not being valuable. Your brain's going

to keep alerting you. It's like, hey, I found a danger that we need to pay attention. to. So it doesn't work. Just be like, don't worry. Everything's fine because your brain's like, no, something's going to eat us. We're going to die. I'm not going to just ignore it. So you have to practice thinking something that bridges that on purpose rather than just trying to like focus on the positive. That makes sense, right? So for instance, at this outfit used to look better. Okay. Yeah. Let's take that example. Like this outfit used to look better, you know. Your brain is telling you that because your brain's been programmed to believe that a woman's

appearance determines her value. And so if something has changed, quote, quote, negatively about your appearance, because we've also been socialized to believe a woman has to be as thin as possible, and that's how she'll be beautiful, and that's how she'll have power and acceptance. So your brain associates any kind of like weight gain or body change that would change your skirt size or make it look different on you with a danger. So your brain is not going to stop thinking about it, and you can't just tell it to stop. But what you can do is try to practice a thought, like even people who wear whatever size this is can be attractive.

Or it's possible for me to still be attractive, even though the skirt fits differently now. These don't sound like inspiring thoughts. Like you wouldn't put that on a Pinterest graphic. Like it's possible I can still be attractive when I'm bloated. But they actually work because you get a little bit of relief when you think them in your body. And that little bit of payoff, that emotional payoff, that's what encourages your brain to keep doing this work. And that's what will actually move you towards a new thought pattern.

Well, it feels like any resolution, right? Like we can't start with these giant goals of like, I guess we're talking about weight. But like, I will lose weight. Like that feels like. anything, yeah, I'm going to go in this gym and deadlift 400 pounds. Right. You've got to start with like, maybe I'm going to go to the gym and like lift five pounds and see what happens.

Right. It's not measurable. It's not sustainable. Totally. So to do these tiny little shifts, I think are really always very helpful. Yeah. And people think that positive thinking didn't work for them. And it's because your brain has no incentive to try to keep practicing something

it doesn't believe. I mean, I can say anything in my brain to myself. I can say, the lizard people built the pyramids. Like, I can say that thought. I have no emotional connection to it. It's not doing anything. So my brain's not going to keep thinking it. There's no sort of intrinsic motivation to keep practicing it.

Whereas if you think a thought and you feel a little bit better, now your brain is willing to keep doing that. And then you build from there. That doesn't mean you have to stay forever at, right? A lot of these thoughts, like, I think sometimes people feel like some of these sort of, I call them latter thoughts in the book. They can even sound like unfeminist because it's sort of like you're accepting that it matters if you look a certain way or that like you're saying being bloated is bad or whatever.

but it's really just, we're just trying to meet your brain where it is and help it move a little bit, right? It really bothers me. We talk about this, like, we're going to just stop pretending that this stuff doesn't matter, that it wasn't ingrained in us for decades. I'm just supposed to wake up one day and have no attachment to the way that I look. And I don't tie every single piece of my confidence and self-worth to how I look, but I was trained my whole life to hate how I look. So it takes work every day, and I think the body positivity movement is beautiful,

but to completely erase the idea that this matters to women and has always, and it matters to men. So I think it's unfair to put that on women and say like, well, we're not supposed to care about this anymore, you know, because everybody deeply cares. And women enforce it on themselves. I mean, part of the way we're socialized is to always believe we're doing everything wrong. So I'll be coaching people and they'll be like, well, I have this thought pattern,

like I'm upset that I see a new wrinkle. But then I also start criticizing myself that I shouldn't be upset about that or I'm supposed to be a feminist. I'm supposed to not care about this. I'm supposed to be more evolved about this. So it just, I mean, anything can become a thing that a woman will use to police herself with if that's her relationship with herself. And the only thing we can do in the moment, I think now is obviously we want society to change,

but we have to start by changing our relationship with ourselves so that we are not constantly policing ourselves to check and make sure that we know everything we're doing wrong all the time. Yeah, I also, I don't know how much you kind of use other people as examples in that meeting your brain where it's at kind of thing. Like you said, even people who are the size are. beautiful, like something like that. Like I, sometimes I find those things help and we say this a lot when it comes to dating. It can come across as negative, but sometimes you have to remind yourself that like even all these couples who look so happy on Instagram of problems, you know, like,

it's not always how it seems. That sounds almost negative, but it is kind of like the reality, you know, because I think you can get tripped up with like, we've talked about this before. Like everybody's in a relationship and everybody's so happy and everybody's doing so great. And it's like, that's not true. One of the best thoughts I ever used for my body image work, which was for me very connected to dating was all being. suffer. Like I would just walk around New York and there would be like a woman who looked like probably was a runway model crying on the street having a fight with her boyfriend because it's New York and no one has any privacy. And I would just be like all being suffer. And like I really

had to retrain my brain because I talk about this in the book in the context of the four traps of romantic socialization around love life stuff. But yeah, we're going to talk about. One of them is magical thinking, which I'm going to explain, but it actually applies to any area of your life that women are socialized around. Women are socialized to believe that if you can just conform to a social standard or expectation well enough, you are going to reach this magical blessed land where you then like never feel bad about yourself and everyone loves you and approves of you all the time and you don't ever feel rejected or lonely and like getting married is one of those, having kids is one of those, looking a certain way is one of those. And that's the magical thinking.

So I think what you're describing is actually I get why people think it sounds negative. But it's not like, I hope that couple's not happy. It's like, right, it's like reality check. this is the human experience. It's positive and negative, no matter what. Whether there's another person in your bed or not, whether there's a ring on your finger or not, you have kids, you're a size 2,

you're a size 22 or 32. That's the human experience. Some of it's going to feel good, some of it's going to feel bad, and you can't get out of that by achieving some kind of socially sanctioned milestone. Yeah, we talked about on your podcast because I had talked openly about how I was like struggling

with turning 40. And I had a friend, this was recent. I was sharing that with her. and she was she's coming up on it and you know it's a newer friend and she was just like oh my god I had no idea you felt that way and I'm like yeah and I almost think it provided her a sense of relief like of course I wanted to be out here like I can't wait I'm so excited and I'm 40s icon but like I struggled with it up until like 40 Eve you know so I think it was helpful to hear that no one's out here just all the the time living life perfectly totally happily I'm constantly talking about how getting engaged was like

one of the worst experiences in my life. I mean, I was like, we talked about this on the podcast. But like, you know, I dating was an area I did a lot of work on. And, you know, I really tried. And I think I made a lot of progress on, like, divesting from that belief that I needed that for validation and social validation didn't feel good about myself. And I probably, I think I got 80% of the way there. But I still had 20% of thinking, like, I'm going to feel different when this happens.

And like, here's all that's different. I'm no longer preoccupied with trying to find someone. I'm now preoccupied with all of my thoughts about him. It's not, it's just I have a human brain. I love this conversation so much. How many people do we know that are so beautiful and their bodies are incredible and they fucking hate themselves and they think about it constantly? I know so many people that are married and they have tremendous infidelity issues.

Gambling problems, drug addiction, alcohol addiction with their partner. They don't feel prioritized the way their partner talks to them. Like getting married is not the golden ticket. Achieving a certain number on the scale is not the golden ticket. And I like talking about that and realizing like no one is like, I'm good now. You can't hate yourself into a feeling you want. People want to hate dating and then love being in a relationship. Like that's not how that works.

You can't fuel yourself to go to the gym with self-hatred and then expect that like if you hit a certain physical milestone, you're going to look in the mirror and be like, now I feel amazing about myself. Your brain is not technically a muscle, obviously, but you can think about it as a muscle in this sense of you've been practicing a certain way of talking to yourself. Okay. Of like, you know, dating is the worst and men are horrible and they don't blah, blah, blah. And then you're like, I want to use that brain to find a good

relationship and feel good about the person in it. Wow. Wow. I mean, this kind of goes to an article we read recently and we want to do a whole episode on it of like, why does dating sucks? Why is it so negative? Why is it just the landscape so bad? And that's the way everybody speaks about it. And you have to view it as a journey like instead of dog shit until the person comes along. Like you have to think, okay, but if I go on eight bad dates, they led me to the ninth person, which is a great person. Also, dating is. Dating is. just meeting people. A lot of people you won't like or you won't get along with or they'll be annoying or they'll whatever. Like, I mean, if you had to go on 10 friend dates, you also probably

wouldn't like nine of them. Like one of them would be flaky or one of them would lie and steal your car. Like I don't know, whatever's happening. Wow. That's like this idea about someone to steal your car. No, but I had to do a lot of work on liking dating because I was very outcome focused and people are like this with their business. Like I coach people who are trying to, you know, I mean, my coaching program is for everybody, but of course I have some coaches in it, just like I have whatever, architects, doctors, lawyers. And like anybody who's trying to start a business and like trying to make their first couple of sales or whatever. If you take every single time it doesn't work as evidence that nobody wants to buy this, everybody hates me. But that's what people are doing with dating.

Yeah. And I think there's like so much value to feminism showing women the ways that society is stacked against us and that certainly that, you know, men are socialized in a way, socialized a variety of ways based on their gender that some are not so great for them or their emotional development either. Some give them some social advantage. But the sort of like men are all trash discourse, I'm just like if you want to date men,

it's can be hard with that thought. I mean, I love that you said it because it's hard. I mean, I suffer from it too, because we hear so many bad stories, you know? And live them. Yeah, live them. All my dates are mad in L.A. You've had a rough run in Rela.

I've had a really rough run. And it has worn me down in a way that like I've never felt before where I'm just like, I hate dating and I hate men and I don't hate men, I love men. But like it is hard, like you said, to have eight really bad dates, walk in on the ninth date and be like, slate is clean. I'm not going to be like, bitter is not fair. But like, it's hard to not walk in and be like,

what's going to happen on this one, you know? Part of what makes it so terrible is that people are motivated by this, and I'm not saying you are, just like when people are out there dating, it's always going to feel horrible if you feel like you don't have an option. Because the way society has taught you, it's like it doesn't seem like an option to not date or to not want a partner because there's such deep socialization around having a partner and being married as being the most important achievement for a woman or at least the achievement without which any other achievement is sort of a little hollow or a little sad. And yes, I totally believe there is a natural human inclination for a lot of us to want to have affectionate bonds. I totally believe that that's true. but I don't think we can separate like the way that society teaches women to think about romantic

partnership from the way women feel about dating. Because if what you basically have subconsciously is I have to do this, I'm like, this is how I'm ever going to feel good about myself. I've been sold this bill of lies, which is like, I won't feel lonely anymore. I'll feel loved. I'm going to feel like I have a companion. Everything's going to be better. So I feel like I have to get this thing to feel good.

And I also have this thought that it's hard. and men are trash or whatever else. It's like when you don't have any way out kind of mentally, everything will always feel, the stakes feel so high. It will always feel so much worse. And if you say to women like, okay, well, like, don't date for a while. You know, you don't have to date. It feels so natural that we're like, no, but I want that.

But I just think we have to really question. Like, what is it you want? What is the feeling you're trying to have? I don't really believe that we have like a brain receptor just for, you know, an attachment bond with a person of the gender that we're attracted to where we also touch each other's genitals. Like that's not actually a specific thing in your brain. Right.

Well, you wrote the book. Okay, so how can we identify our real priorities so we don't spend our lives unconsciously following rules that aren't supporting what we really want out of life? So how can we? I got a 30 second fix. You just buy my supplement and it just takes care of it. It creates that little concept of your brain. It just clicks right in.

That's so funny. From 15% off. I wanted to be the grift you didn't see coming. That is so funny. You're like, I have this app. I have a really simple personality test. It's three questions. And once I know your type, you never have to feel lonely again.

And then you just have to pay 2999. And you don't ever have to have the human experience ever again. Kara backslash GGEE10. Yeah, just the exit reamp right off. And I think, by the way, you did start to get into it where you said, like, I'm identifying that I don't want to feel alone. Does that mean I have to fill it with a romantic partner? Yeah.

So I think obviously deprogramming, trying to get patriarchy and society out of your brain is a big project and I don't think the goal is to completely desocialize yourself like women just turned into another perfectionist like pursuit but socialization is also why like we know how to sit here nicely and like no one has peed on the floor and we all put on clothes today and like we know what foods are safe to eat you know and that we know that this is a friend not a threat like all of that socialization so we're not trying to get to some like state of zero yeah it's just a journey of getting to know yourself better and becoming more curious and more compassionate with yourself about that socialization So the point is not to be like, okay, I'm not supposed to have these patriarchal thoughts and I need to be a good feminist.

I need to make sure that I completely deprogram socialization about romantic relationships out of my brain. Like, you know, I chose to get engaged despite, I think we talked about this on the podcast. Like having mixed feelings and ambivalence about it, feeling like there's still some social validation feeling happening from making this choice. But I felt like I had done enough work at least to know, even though I was actively feeling worse I was choosing it, which was a good sign to me that like, I'm not choosing this to try to escape my feelings. I'm actually moving towards discomfort, which is one of my kind of operating principles of life, is like I want to move towards,

not discomfort for discomfort's sake, but towards evolution and growth, which often feels uncomfortable. So I don't think we can totally get it out of our brains, but the process really is to using the work I teach in the book or I have my podcast is on Fuck Your Brain, there's like 300 episodes of that, to become aware of what you're thinking

and to change those thoughts, but it really requires so much, like, self-compassion and curiosity, because if you're not willing to be curious and you're not willing to be nice to yourself, you're not going to tell yourself the truth. And I think a lot of women get stuck there, even women who think that they're very self-aware,

they've been to a lot of therapy. I was like this too. I'm totally self-aware. I can give you a very long narrative explanation of all of my neuroses, but I was like not willing to have a feeling if you paid me. Like I was just not, you know,

I was in my brain in a jar. And so I was always just cerebrally trying to analyze myself into something different, like into being different or feeling different. And there's really no way to do that. You have to be willing to be present with yourself, which requires that curiosity, that self-compassion.

And then when it comes to dating, I mean, I can't stop thinking about what you said of like you have this men are trash, dating is trash mentality, and you're trying to use that same brain to find love. Is some helpful self-talk, like just being proud of yourself that you're out there? You know, like, is it what is the bridging the gap there?

Yeah, I think it depends on like everybody's brain's different, but a couple of different like avenues that I think people find helpful. One is when we get despairing, it's usually actually not necessarily because of what we're experiencing now. It's because we imagine it will always be like that. So this philosopher and psychologist, I think he's both. Martin Saligman. He's a life coach.

A non-certified life coach. He's a yoga teacher. Yoga teacher Martin Seligman. I'm going to get an email from his people now. I'm like, what the fuck. We're going to get an email from a lot of yoga teachers. Send him to me. It's fine.

We love our yoga teachers. There are some amazing ones. That's some nice things. He talks about the three P's he calls them. And it's, let's see if I can do it. Uh-oh. Persistence, pervasiveness, and personalization. These are basically three kind of thought patterns I would call them that like make everything feel worse.

Okay. Personalization is like when we take it personally. So it's like somebody does something and we're like, oh, you did that because of what or who I am or what you think of me. Yeah. One is persistence, which is like, and that's the one I. I was talking about here, it's like, it's always going to be this way. And one is pervasiveness, which is like, it's like everywhere. Okay.

So you can almost always tell, like, if you're catching that in your brain, that is a beautiful shortcut to being like, oh, that's a thought error that I probably want to address. So if I told you, you're going to have to go on 20 of the fucking worst dates of your life, but 21, it's going to be a winner. You'd be like, all right, let's go. It's 15, when's 16, right? It's the thought of, oh, no, it's all three. Women are secretly thinking maybe there's something wrong with me.

They don't want to think that, but that's what society taught them. So we're personalizing it of like, what's wrong with me? Why is this happening to me? Am I choosing wrong? Am I missing the red flags? Am I all that? It's pervasive. All the men are like this or all the women, whoever you're dating.

All the people are like this. Nobody wants to be in a relationship. Right? And persistence. And it'll always be like this. Okay. Humans are very resilient, actually. I think that we mostly do think we can get through something if we think it is limited

in duration. or that the challenge will be over. Yeah. If we have a date when something's going to end, a romantic date or a date on the calendar, then it's easier to get through anything. Of course, if it was like on 21, it's going to be great. But you can think that way on purpose, right?

The question I like to ask myself that I've done my business, my relationship was like, how many bad dates am I willing to go on? Assuming they don't all have to be bad, but like really choosing that as opposed to thinking each time, like, okay, this better be the one. Like, this has to be right to validate that there isn't anything wrong with me and that all that suffering wasn't in vain. and like, I'm willing to go on 100.

I'm willing to go on 200. Like, I'm willing to keep going until I get there. First of all, I love what you said, just figuring out which P is going on or one, two, or all three, and just being able to catch that and reframe it. But also just like trying to find the good in these things. I mean, yes, you may go on 10 dates with 10 terrible narcissists, you know, that like really personally offend you. But I feel like what helped me was like going on dates sometimes with like really nice, good guys

that took me out and we had a fun night. and they just weren't the right person for me. And those things helped being like, there's good people out there. And not pathologizing also. I just think it's sort of like, like you can't go on to 10 dates with narcissists. Of course.

Of course. I just was like high extreme. Yeah, yeah. But I think that that is like, it feels like there's like a branch of online feminism that's basically just like diagnosing everybody you meet with a personality disorder. Which is like.

We've talked about that. Yeah. Like that's not what's happening. And the problem is your brain looks for evidence of what it believes. Right. So if your thought is men are only out to use you for sex, they don't want commitment or they're all man boys or they're all whatever, you will just see evidence of that, right?

So one of the thoughts I use a lot in dating was just like, this is just a human being, like I'm a human being. They may not, whatever, they may not be having the feelings or thoughts I want, they may not be acting in the way I want. Like, I do think even men are like doing the best they can with what they have. Now, society does not socialize us in ways that are helpful to us and men are socialized to basically think that, you know, having any emotional intelligence is weak and feminine.

So we all have a responsibility to look at that socialization and try to become a more evolved person. But it's like the more you pathologize and other people, the worst you feel. Yeah. And all these lies you're talking about, I've told myself all of them, you know, there must be something wrong with me. But if you reframe that and say like, is everybody that I know that's in a relationship, are they so perfect? Are they so great? Have they chosen so well? No.

I choose what they choose. Not necessarily. You know, if you tell yourself every man or whatever you want to date, men or women is so terrible. then you will believe it. But if you zoom out, my dad is wonderful. My brother's an amazing husband. Ash's brother's an amazing husband. I love Ashley's boyfriend.

I have tons of examples in the world of people not being trash and horrible. I do think you have to remind yourself of that. Totally. And that everybody's on a different time. I mean, I always am saying my clients, like, listen, if truly all you want is to be married, you could do that tomorrow. Right. You could find someone to marry tomorrow.

But then they'll say, but that's not the person or the relationship I want. I'm like, right. That's what you're holding out for. And you have to make that decision. own it. I'm 43. I met my partner when I was 40. And I'm still a little bit like, well, I was having fun. Yeah. Not only is the destination, not some magical promise land. It's just, I mean, I don't know how crass I can be, but I just feel as much as possible. Sometimes I just like to coach by saying, it's just going to be your life, but there's someone with a penis in the house with you.

Like that's- Which doesn't sound that great. It's not that. Oh, I thought it's not that crass. Oh, no, it's not that crass. You're right. You're surrounded by vibration. I know. Listen, I've been on so many, it's like I've had to tone myself down for this podcast book tour. But when you put it that way, that doesn't sound good. That's Raina's nightmare. It's your dope life. Only there's a man in the house all the time. That sounds fun.

There's always a man in this house. It is my life. There's never not a man in this house. But my point is just like, I think it is helpful with your brain sometimes to reduce things to like really like, because your brain is like, no, it's a magical wonderland where you're at Disney princess and then this and this and it's like, no. It's still like there's dishes in the sink. And now fucking someone's talking to me before I've had coffee.

Yeah. And like this is what I'm telling myself I have to have. And I'm glad I made the decision to get partnered because for me, I had done a lot of work and gotten really good at being single and dating. And then this brought up a whole new shit of work I had to do. But it's the opposite of why people think you get partnered. People think you get partnered. So you can be like, oh good, I did it. I arrived. I'm done. Now I feel good. And I'm like, no. I got partnered to be like, oh, Jesus. I hadn't even looked at that stuff. Okay, here we go. This is a whole new level of work I have to do now. I want to talk about the four traps. traps are romantic socialization. I have one quick question for you. Did you feel like when you, I'm probably projecting, did you feel like one of the things you struggled with getting engaged was people treating it like it was the biggest thing you'd ever accomplished? Oh my God, I cannot talk about this. I'm on a book tour and I'm going to my book tour events and people like, I'm so excited you're getting married. You're like, I wrote a book. I really struggled with it. It wasn't really that hard to get me. I mean, I had to do a lot of work of myself to be in a good

relationship, but getting. Anyone can get married. That's not to shame of people. Beautiful marriages are really so special and, you know, more rare these days. But this is the thing I struggle with. But that's a good marriage. Yeah, having a good relationship is an accomplishment. Just being able to put a ring on your fingers. I mean, I feel like I've done a lot of work on myself. I feel accomplished that I achieve this really healthy, nice relationship.

I just don't know that it's deserving of this is the greatest thing I've ever done. I mean, Rayna would say this the last time she, you know, hard launched her boyfriend on Instagram. She was like more congratulations than like us selling out the Chicago Theater. I know. Three times the engagement on that post than I did when we launched a second business that be self-funded. Right. Totally. Isn't that crazy? And also people aren't congratulating you on their relationship. If somebody came up to me and was like, listen, I've been your friend for 20 years

and I'd really see how you've grown. Right. Which friends do that. Yes. That I'm like, yes. Of course I accept that compliment. You're seeing the growth. Yeah. You're complimenting like the work I've done to like really have an authentic, honest, real relationship, which most people don't. Yeah. Love that. Being like, oh my God, you're getting married. Which like my friends know not to do. But it is wild to me. And people are like, are you worried about the wedding? And I'm like, man, I'm trying to make the New York Times bestseller list. I'm not worried about the fucking party. Like people are, what's going to happen?

There's food. There's a band. It's fine. I guess people, I mean, everybody has a touch point for romantic relationships. They don't have a touch point for writing a book. So I think it's just easier to get behind.

Like, I know this. I understand this. This is what everybody wants. But you're coming to my book tour. Right. This is not the wedding. Right.

Yeah. Now I know some of my podcast listeners are going to be like, I'm sorry. I said that I congratulate you. It's all for you. It's totally fine. And I accept your love for me and the gentleman consort. I do this shit too.

You know, there's nothing more cringe than being like, let me see the ring. He did so good. But I've probably done it. I always do it. I mean, again, I just want to say like, we're all this same. No, I'm always saying. We're all complicit in these systems and it's not. There's parts of it that I'm like, don't.

It's a little too congratulatory. Because we've been socialized for thousands of years. I think that's a woman's biggest accomplishment. Yes, that's what I have a problem. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about the four traps of romantic socialization. Yes.

So this is just sort of my attempt to take the enormous amount of socialization women get. And I really encourage, like, if you take nothing else away from this podcast, the socialization that women get about centering romantic relationships, especially if they're heterosexual, but not only because you get the socialization before you're even probably aware of your sexual identity a lot of the time. So even if you don't date men, don't fuck men, don't want to marry men, this romantic socialization is still in your brain is so deep. I just think, like, people, most people are not even, if you think it goes to a depth level six, it goes to a depth level 60. Like it is so deep in there. So the four traps, the first one is insecurity, which we've

talked about, which is just if you teach someone that essentially their social validation and belonging to the tribe depends on being in a certain kind of romantic relationship. And for straight women, essentially being like chosen by a man, then they are of course going to be obsessed with it because their brain associates that with danger, like to not fit in with the tribe or to not have the tribe's respect evolutionarily dangerous. Right. And so the first trap is really just understanding why. Like a lot of this book is just trying to help women understand. This is why you feel so crazy about this,

especially when you intellectually don't think you should. Right? This is why I could be somebody who went to Yale in Harvard and was an active feminist and has been a professional feminist my whole life and didn't think you should have to need a man and didn't want a conventional marriage despite where I've ended up. But nevertheless was like, did that dude from Tinder who is probably not even named Brian text me back, right? Yeah.

That is the brain gap. that split brain experience. And the section on security is really just helping you understand like there's nothing wrong with your brain or wrong with you. Like this is actually a natural outcome of how society has taught you to think. Which is a relief. Yeah. That's helpful to know. Right. Just like as a starting point. Yes. That's why you feel that way. It's not, you don't feel so terrible because there's actually something wrong with you or because like maybe name Brian is actually a good judge of your worth and value. Right. Brian doesn't even have a passport. Right. Like why we don't even know. We don't even know if his name is Brian. He might be a bot. He's going to steal your car. He could be a 13 year on a basement or an 85 year old grandpa. Like we don't even know. Right. So that's the first trap.

And that leads to the second trap, which are scarcity and settling. And those are scarcity is the belief that there's like not enough to go around. And... Listen, let's run the numbers. But I think that that is a really big social myth also. It's because society teaches women scarcity. Society is like, there's more women than men. There's no good men, right?

Like that's, in a weird way, patriarchy runs on the idea that both men are superior and that there aren't enough good men to go around. Right? So then women have to be competitive over this resource. And a lot of women will have a specific thing. It's like, okay, no, I do believe there's enough out there for other people, but not for me because of what my body looks like or my religion or my race or my, you know, trauma and baggage or my standards or my whatever, right? But any time you're going into it thinking I'm trying to find something there isn't enough of, you are immediately triggering a like anxious survival response in your body and that is going to make dating feel terrible. Yeah, I totally agree. A scarcity mindset is only going to be harmful.

But then there is a point of like the stats are saying that there are so much more educated, evolved women than men. We talked about with Dr. Marsha Einhorn about when it comes to like women that want to have children and men. So there is a gap there, which I go back and forth because sometimes that's helpful to know too because you're like, oh, this isn't just me. There is a reason why I know all these amazing women and I don't know. Like I do. I go back and forth on if it's helpful or if it's not. But I'm with you and like going into dating that way is certainly not helpful. But you talk about this all the time Ashley does about sort of reframing like I thought I wanted this thing at a person.

But like I'm very happy with this other thing. I didn't even imagine that that could make me so happy. And it's different than settling because like you write the book scarcity and settling. Like I think that like you, the plural, you have an idea of like the education level you want in somebody, the height you want in somebody, the body mass index you want in somebody and what they do for a living. and like so many other things could make you happy if you just open up yourself. Yeah, and I'm not trying to debate you on it. I'm just like, this is something we went to law school, so debate is not accept me. Actually, I will bury you.

No, no, actually, check me on. Check me on. I'm kidding. I just, we talk about this a lot of an actual imbalance, but it needs to be refraigned. Well, what I always go back to is just, there's no. Ashley's like, I'm not trying to make you feel stupid. She's like, I'm going to make you feel stupid. I do not. hire me as your life coach I'll make you feel stupid

no that's not that all what I was going to say like that's cute bitch no what I think that sometimes especially in like self-helpier the women's world online it's like people feel like they have to agree on everything it's like I have people on the podcast so I don't agree with and I just like articulate that I totally hear what you're saying I think for me this is partly why I always go back to in the book I talk about there's like a whole other episode we would have to do of like

the cycle in which your thoughts create your feelings and your behavior which comes from cognitive behavioral psychology but then a way of seeing how that impacts outcomes in your life. And I'm really pretty agnostic. It's like I'm offering thoughts that I think are useful, but everybody's got to run that thought through the process for themselves and just look at their life. For instance, if what somebody really wants to do is like not date, but they have all that socialization and then this thought helps them like let go of that a little bit

and just be like, oh, well, it's not just me. There aren't enough to go around. Like whatever it is, if that thought is like working for them, I'm all for it. Yeah. You know, when we talk to John Berger, like his thing is like, yes, some of the odds are stacked against you, but here's how to combat them. You know, you can't just whelm around in the hole that there's nothing to go around. Like, that's accurate. Like, you can't enter into anything you want to achieve with a scarcity mindset. So it's kind of just like combating it.

But that's why it's really about that connection. Like, do I really want this and do I know my reasons and like them? And if so, then I'm going to have to use my brain on purpose to pick the thoughts that are the most helpful, even if there are some other true thoughts I could think. I mean, the example I often give is like, we're all going to die someday. That is a very true thought. And some people, when they think that, it's like actually very motivating for them. It's inspiring for them. They're like, I want to make the best I can of this time of my life.

And then like, great, that thought works great for them. Some people become paralyzed by fear and anxiety and despair when they think that it's not so helpful for that person. It's not one size fits all. But I do talk in the book about sort of the personalization thing, right? It's like the difference between a statistic. A statistic on its own doesn't tend to elicit like despair and hopelessness in my experience coaching. what does is what you make that mean for you. So I mean, I went through this dating as a fat woman in New York

where all the dating profiles just say like, you know, no faties or height weight proportionate only. Fat phobia is alive and well in the dating world, especially in New York, maybe, probably especially in L.A. too. Yeah. There are tough cities to date in. I mean, where a lot of your worth derives from how you look,

that's your currency. I wasn't like trying to make my thoughts be, everybody loves women of my size. Like that's not, right? My thought was, some fat women find love and partners who really love, respect, and desire them. And I have decided this is important to me, and I do like my reasons. And I'm willing to do what it takes, which means I'm not going to think about the night.

It's like in selling. It's like having a business. It's like coaching. It's like when people don't want to like, they're like, but so many people don't want life coaches. And I'm like, yeah, those aren't your clients. Yeah. Right. Like the men who don't like fat women are not my clients.

Yeah. Like they're not. Why would I be trying to appeal to those people? Right. I just have to be committed to loving my body enough for me to, A, enjoy this. process. Be, feel confident in it for the people who do want it. Right. It's as if I tried to sell coaching being like, listen, a lot of people think this is dumb and a lot of them don't believe in it at all. But it might help some of you. Do you want to try it? Like, no. Nobody wants that.

Right. It's an empowering thought. I mean, people have told us no guy is going to want a girl who, you know, talks about sex for a living, you know, is on stage doing this and that. It's like, we're like, great. Yeah, great. Then we won't even go down the road with those people, you know, like it's a nice feeling when you realize I'm not going to be for everybody. Well, what I love about dating is really, you need one or even if you're Polly at most four. Yeah. Right? Like, for coaching clients, you need a lot of people.

Dating, it's like, one to four. Like, that's all you got to get out of the whole, out of the whole world. I've always said all you need is one, but now it's all you need is one to four. I don't want our non-monogamous people to feel left out. No, I love it. All you need is one to four. But that's my, like, when you think about it like that, it's like, well, I don't have to, not everybody has to like me.

Not every date has to work out. Right. Yes. Not every person has to want someone who, whatever it is. is my age, has a kid, is in a different body. Is it like, I just need one. That's why it all comes together. It's like, what are my reasons? Have I done enough work to know that I actually do care about this?

If I'm just trying to find a partner, because I think that I'll finally feel good about myself, the whole thing's going to feel horrible the whole way alone. I like the difference between like being open-minded and settling also. I mean, you write settling, but I think that it's important to stay open-minded. It is for me because I think, like, yeah, if I built a man, and we've done an episode about making a list, and I think that's an important exercise.

but if I built a man, he'd live in California, he'd be in a certain income bracket, he'd be a certain height, he'd have a certain profession, and that's just not necessarily realistic. Like, if you put a bunch of beans in the center and I start taking them out for people that look a certain way, make a certain amount of money or a certain age, you've won't be a.

But also it's like, why do we want those things? I mean, this is from somebody who ended up with someone who is like, not Jewish, was divorced, had kids, and when I met him had to, like, work 9 to 5 in an office, when I thought I was looking for like a probably Jewish guy who is location independent and didn't want children. We were going to travel the world. These all tie together because when you are dating because of the socialization,

when you are dating because you feel like, people don't think about this way, but this is really what it is, that I need the social status that comes from that, right? We think about that as like, I'll feel good enough. But really what that is is like a social validation. That's when you're like, but they have to be a certain quality.

It has to be a certain kind or it doesn't count. It doesn't work. People won't look at me and be impressed. People won't look at me and say, oh, okay, like, I guess she is good enough because she got that kind of partner. So, like, yeah, there's a scarcity if that's how you're doing it, right? But if as a, if you are connecting to like, what is the purpose of this relationship? Why am I trying to be in a relationship?

What am I trying to experience? How am I trying to grow? What are the values that motivate me here? And who is a good match for that? It ends up really having nothing to do with, like, their income or their height. God, that's like a whole other conversation. We've got to do these two remaining things of the four. But that's a huge part of, you know, for an example, the type of men, women may be seeking out

just based on socialization. And right. And I know those women. Right. Like no one under six feet. Just because they have Hampton's houses. They're finance guys. And you're screaming at them.

Like you keep picking the same terrible guy. But they have had guys in the past that were just nice to them and kind and were nice people that they just threw away. Like you have to tell yourself why you're. Right. Because women are socialized to believe that their social status derives from their partner. Yeah. I like the way that you put that. I mean, and we just don't think of it that way because it doesn't sound very good.

It doesn't sound nice. But that's truly it. part of what I talk about in the settling section, though being less popular, is that I talk about patriarchy and how it teaches men to commodify women, of course, and that is a bigger problem. And in the dating market,

women also commodify men, right? I mean, again, look at the dating profiles. It's like, don't message me if you're not six feet tall. You have to have this kind of, whatever. I'm not blaming women for that. Women have been socialized that way. Totally. But, of course, you can't find a good relationship

when you're both commodifying and objectifying each other. Like, that's, you can't have real intimacy or vulnerability that way. Right. Intimity doesn't exist just at, like, the 200k or above per year level. I like to emotionally connect to you,

but you're 510, and so it can't reach. Right. I can't. My emotion rays can't get to you. And I got to tell you, like if you're trying to do something to impress other people, it doesn't matter.

People will see through it eventually. You know, or you'll just end up with someone who's also trying to impress other people. Right. You can get yourself that partner and they'll be dating you because you're a size two. Right.

And you have this kind of breast. And you know, and if your body changes, then that's going to be a problem. And if their income changes, that's going to be a problem. And you're just trailing. You're just trading this.

All right. The next fixation and rumination. The good dyes is we've already talked about the last one, which is magical thinking. Fixation and rumination is actually a pretty quick one. It is, again, one of those that's partly just to be like, you're not crazy. This is why your brain's doing this. Love it. If you teach someone that they're worth and value depend on this area of their life

and that if they haven't achieved a certain milestone by a certain point, there's something wrong with them. And you teach them that they need to fix that fast and there's not enough good options to fix it. And of course your brain's going to fixate and ruminate. Like, how could it not? So just understanding that when you're obsessing about some woman, dude, or a person of any gender, who you intellectually realize is, like, not a big deal in the story of your life, but you cannot stop fixating on. Your brain is in a weird way working as designed.

It's just maladaptive in this day and age. Like, your brain absorbed very early on women's romantic status determines their worth and value. So your brain thinks, we have to do this. This is survival related. Like, if we don't do this, then people are not going to. think we're good enough, then people might reject us, then they might leave us in the jungle to die when the tribe moves camp and no one will tell us. I mean, I'm simplifying, but that is the way your brain is working. So I think that often women feel even a lot of shame about like how fixated

they are, especially in dating. I mean, I've coached people on a lot of things and I used to do first, I mean, I'd want to one at first, then small group. And I see fixation rumination the most in dating in terms of just like the most anxiety and kind of the most need for like very frequent handholding. sort of, and I don't mean hand-holding pejoratively, but it's just because it is like, especially with cell phones and online dating now, it just can be like a part of every moment. And so there's like so much opportunity to fixate and so much opportunity to just have that stuff triggered over and over again and so much opportunity to communicate and obsess about it. And so that trap is really just like, there's a reason your brain is doing this.

It thinks that it is necessary for you to be accepted and to survive. And so the solution to all of it is that reprogramming of your brain. so that your relationship with yourself matters more than your relationship with anybody else. And so that you are able to separate your worth and value from that relationship status little by little. And then magical thinking we've talked about. Part of why I put magical thinking in there is like, of course we want to believe that if we just finally get the right person, we will stop having all of those thoughts. And like, traps one through three are exhausting.

So of course your brain wants to be like, okay, well, when I just finally get the right relationship, I'm going to finally get to stop thinking all this, but I got bad news for you. That's not what happened. Some people just keep the same thoughts. There's a New Yorker cartoon I love of a woman being like, yeah, but did you marry me or marry me as a friend? Right?

Because like you can... Which those beams are funny. You can keep that. So some people will just keep the same thought pattern, right? It'll just be like, I'm just now fixated on whether my partner's upset with me or are they happy or are they attracted to me? Right, right. Or like me, you actually have done enough work so you're not fixated on that,

but now there's just a whole bunch of other shit you have to deal with of being like truly intimate with someone else when you are more self-actualized has its own whole list of shit you have to deal with of going from being independent and doing what you want to all of a sudden having this other person and my fiance is so way overcompetating of me and still I mean I basically do whatever I want and I'm still like I mean I basically do whatever I want and I'm like well but you're here you know you can't hold me down. He's like, we're married. We're married, right. I put no restraints on your behavior at all. So how exactly are you being held down? I've never even asked you to do anything differently. Like what? Whereas I, of course, have like 13 instructions a day for him.

Yeah. I really actually do love your ring. Thank you. Yeah, it is really, it's very different. It's really cool. And that I designed it. It's very different. Well, it's actually my great grandmother and then my grandmother's.

Diamonds? Yeah, so this is from my dad's grandmother, the tall one. That's so special. My favorite part, though, is that my, partner says that he's the tall, low quality one. This ring is symbolic. That's the Sisy. Those are the two kids.

Oh my God. This is symbolism on symbolism. Yeah, that's really, really so special. All right. Well, I really encourage people to buy your book. There is a lot of exercises in it. There's a lot of questions to ask yourself.

And I do like the second part of your dating chapter, which is sex. I encourage people to read it where you just talk about why women are socialized to find being desired, arousing, and how we can create feelings of desirability and take back your sexual agency. So I really encourage people to read that. The one-tens version of that is if you feel like you can't feel sexy unless someone else is like actively desiring you or making you feel sexy, that's some bullshit.

You actually can change that. It's in the book. Love it. Yes. We can't hammer that home enough. So your book is out now. It's how everybody ready to get the book, Instagram, everything. So if you are listening to this right when it comes out, you have a few more days.

You can get the pre-order bonuses that we were doing with orders of the book are still available through the end of the month. There's like a 30-day guided take back your brain. journal, there's a book club, there's an encyclopedia of new thoughts, which is like more than 30 pages of just thoughts you can borrow. Do you have any of those? I will send them to you. I'll send it to you guys for free. Tux of journals, encyclopedias. Yes. So exactly. It's almost like I was a nerd before this. People like, you want to do a mug or a t-shirt? I'm like, workbooks. More work books. We don't have mugs. We just drink out of teacups with our pinky up. Yeah. So you go to Take Back Your Brainbook.com if you want those. But if you're listening.

to this after. If it's June or later, wherever books are sold. Love it. Okay. And then you are on Instagram. Yes, I am on Instagram. My last name is hard to spell. Carl Loanthile. Carl Loanthile. You can also, if you go to Take Back Your Brain Book.com, which is kind of easy to remember, everything's there. Okay. Take Back Your Brain.com. Or you can find my podcast wherever you you listen to podcast. Of course. Yes. Fuck your brain. And we've been on it. We were on it towards the end of 2023. Yeah. So you can start there. Yeah. And do you guys know where to find us? Girls Gotta Eat.com for the tour tickets. We cannot wait to see you out on the tour this fall.

and winner. Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is reina. greenberg, vibes only.com and vibes only on Instagram is our other company. Subscribe on YouTube, share this episode with a friend, get Carr's book, and we'll see you next week. Have a good week, guys. Bye.