Girls Gotta Eat - How to Become a Rich Person with Haley Sacks (aka Mrs. Dow Jones)

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

Time to get rich, bitch! We brought in Haley Sacks (aka Mrs. Dow Jones), financial expert and author of new book “Future Rich Person,” to share non-intimidating advice and achievable goals for building wealth. She lays out the four things you need to do to get started even if you don’t have much (or any) money, how to curb your spending but still enjoy your life, and the fastest method for paying off debt. We also discuss the unrealistic advice women are given about money (and why to ignore it), how the American system is rigged against the average person (and how to combat it), the average debt Gen Z has, how to get a raise, and how to “brainwash” yourself with good financial content instead of the stuff companies are using to manipulate your wallet. Before Haley joins us, Ashley recaps another ridiculous restaurant experience, and Rayna reflects on her days working for an elite hospitality group. Enjoy! Follow Haley on Instagram @mrsdowjones and get her new book Future Rich Person. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Better Help: Therapy can help, get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/gge. Article: Get a beautiful new couch or bed https://article.com. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. Storyworth: Get up to $20 off at https://storyworth.com/gge. AG1: Get an AG1 Flavor Sampler plus a bottle of Vitamin D3 + K2 FREE with your first AG1 subscription at https://drinkAG1.com/GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The thing about finances is that it's actually not that complicated. And it's not so creative the path that we all have to take to get rich. It's actually really straightforward. This podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat. Welcome back.

It is Netflix's Joke Festival. This week starts today as this episode airs. I'm so excited. We've even done a show together in so long. We really have it. I mean, it doesn't really feel like that though because like I opened your tour. I hope the first half of the tour. She might be coming back, you guys stay tuned.

Oh, yeah. She might be. We'll talk about it. Yeah, so we have our show this Thursday night, May 7th, at the Palace Theater here in L.A. For the festival, we are doing the show with the Chippendales. We are so excited. We have fun special guests and so much fun stuff planned.

I mean, I just can't even believe this. Like, you aren't on all these Chippendales calls. That's my department. I'll do Stribber calls. Which is weird. It seems like more my department. Well, you're more in person with the strippers. Like, I'm behind the seeds.

They don't touch you. Yeah. So that will be this Thursday. You guys can grab tickets. You can just go to Girls Got Eat.com. That's the easiest way. You can also go to Netflix. This is a jokefest.

com. But Girls Got Eat.com. Click on live shows. Get tickets. And we can't wait to see you there. This is really the main show of the year. So we don't really know what else we're doing. I mean, obviously, Raina's been on her tour.

I toured last year. And so we haven't done these types of shows in a while. And this will be the one. Come solo if you want. You'll make friends. Bring your friends. Bring your partner. Bring your parents.

Like whoever. And travel for this. Drive up from San Diego, San Francisco, wherever. Yes. Yeah. So enough notice. You guys are listening to just like come down to L.A. for the night and stay in a hotel.

Great hotels downtown. Great restaurants. Just make a night of it. And then if you guys, while you are here, if you live here, if you're spending time here, you might see our faces on the side of a bus in Santa Monica. Yes. We talked about this last week. on the snack that we are on the big blue bus.

So hop on the bus, cheap, great way to get around. I love the big blue bus. I mean, I shared my story last week. So if you guys see that bus, we already told you, but please take. I'm just laughing, thinking about people at the bus stop. Like, no, I got to get a picture. And people like, get out of my way or get on the fucking bus or not. I just, it really took my breath away, like what it really looks like.

It's a bus. It's a huge fucking bus. We did the biggest bus you could get. So we'll see you guys this Thursday and see you at the bus stop. All right. Well, we'll thank our partners and we'll jump right into it. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can help.

Get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash GGE. An article. Get a beautiful new couch or bed at article. And thank you to Nutraful. Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at Nutraful.com with code GGE 10. And thank you to Storyworth. Get up to $20 off at storyworth.com slash GGE. and AG1, get an AG1 flavor sampler plus a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 free with your first AG1

subscription at drinkag1.com slash GGE. And we have such a great one today. We have Mrs. Dal Jones with us. You guys have requested her for so long. Yes, we are so excited. We recorded with her in New York. But I just wanted to say that my special came out last week on the 30th. I premiered it on YouTube and then it debuted on Prime Video in the U.S.

on Friday and is available everywhere to watch on YouTube and then U.S. if you have Prime subscription. So you can watch it from anywhere. There's a few countries that are blocked from YouTube. So if you're in North Korea. North Korea. Yeah. But people ask, like, I'm in Canada. I'm an Australian. Yes, you can watch it wherever. Just fire it up. My YouTube is Ashley Hustleton. You guys can find it. Link in my bio. I have a link tree now. Do you see my link tree? I looked at it last night. Yes, of course I did. You said you were building out your link tree. And I was like, how does it look versus mine? And it looks really nice. I paid for premium.

I think I did too. It looks nice. It's a different vibe as opposed to like a little avatar, a full screen photo. No, it's really nice. So just thank you guys for all the support. Unfortunately, I'll tell you I'm recording this before. It actually airs because obviously it was days ago. But I really am assuming it was received well and I got nice messages and tags from you guys.

And again, I just can't speak on the full scope of it. but I am sure that I'm feeling so much gratitude and love and support and just overwhelmed with you guys as always. So thank you. And of course, just if you haven't watched it, here comes the bride. I always forget to say the name of it. It's called Here Comes the Pride. You can watch it on YouTube or Prime Video. I keep thinking like how excited I am to talk to you like Friday morning. Like I just, I like to hear that like everybody messaged you, called you, like sent DMs. I'm just, I'm excited to hear it the feedback. Yeah. So thank you guys. And thank you to Raina. everything and check it out.

And again, it should be easy to find. But if you have any problems, just message me. And if you can't get enough of Ashley, I am really excited to announce a very special guest for my Gramercy Theater show in New York City on May 14th. It is Ashley Heseltine. And fresh off her special. Here comes the pride. Opening for me.

Opening for Rain. I was started comedy six months ago. You would never know. But this show is really, I have two shows next week. I have Boston on the 13th, which is one of our favorite places to perform in the world, honestly. And so I have two shows there. I have tickets available for the second show. And Gramercy Theater, May 14th, I mean, that's the first theater show you and I ever did together in 2018 for the holiday show.

It was our first holiday show, too, right? Yeah. And so to, like, go back there on my own. It just, like, it means so much to me eight years later to, like, stand there by myself on that stage. And, like, I didn't think you'd be able to come. and so I didn't tell anybody, obviously, because you weren't necessarily planning on being in New York, but, like, I don't know to, like, be there with you

and to just, like, close this out. I do have a couple shows after that, but, like, this was, like, the dream to have you there with me. So I appreciate you making it work, because it's really exciting to me, and all of our friends are coming, and it's just gonna mean the world to me. And I just, I said to you the other day,

like, I just, I didn't know if people would, like, show up for me the way they showed up for you. And it's not I don't think we... I have the best friends and family, and I'm grateful for everybody, and I'm grateful for our audience, but a part of me was like people saw Ashley and they might just be like I did the thing, you know? And I'm very touched that everybody came.

When it's people who are more in my life, like my sister-in-law, both of my sister-in-laws have been on your tour. And like all my best friends and a lot of them are your friends. But just that was, I feel like the sentiment you shared of like, not that our audience wouldn't show up, of course, but just these people in my life that are like, I'm going to go to reign a show without Ashley. It's just in the same, you know, with your family and friends. If I was somewhere, your dad would come.

You'd love to. Your cousins, you know. You love to. So it's just, it means a lot. I'm really excited. And this is where I'm, I'm nearing the end of the tour. Maybe you guys will say. But it's just been really exciting.

So raiderreeber.com, you can grab those tickets. We'll have a great time. I truly just can't wait. Yeah. So we will be in New York all next week doing some fun stuff. And we will see you guys there. I was just telling you this food thing. so we can just get into it.

I went to dinner. Saturday night, we just had a date night at this hot new restaurant in Venice. It's Indian. We did great food. We had a great time. But I had a specific experience, I feel like happened sometimes in L.A.

Where the hostess is just catatonic. Perfectly nice, but not there. It's not like New York where they are there. On it. Well, if they're like that, they're doing it on purpose. They're trying to be rude to you. Right. And L.A. people do want to be nice to you,

which is why it's such a plight. pleasure. So if they're like that, there's just nothing going on upstairs. I just find people in L.A. that work in restaurants to be so friendly, so accommodating, so nice. I have a theory that I just think they never know who they're dealing with. So they might be an actor and you could be a casting agent. Like, you just never know. Also, they're nice people in general, like genuinely. But we just have great experiences. But everyone's small, there's just like always like a really pretty blonde hostess, probably like in her 20s that is just like, what are you doing here? Why would you come to this post to stand for your reservation?

So we get to this restaurant and we got there a little early. And so we're like, we're here early and we'll do whatever. And she just threw her night off. Like she was not present to begin with and we're there 10 minutes early. She was like, no one explained a scenario to be before. She's like, okay. She checks her iPad and she's like, do you want to eat? the cave.

Were you like having a stroke? That's not what she said. I was like, probably not. You know me? I like to be in the vibes. What's up with that cave? She goes, it's really pretty. I was like, it's like a private room.

She was like, mm-hmm. I said, no context. I said, I think we're going to pass on the cave for now. Can we just eat like in the regular dining room? Because the vibes were high. They were playing biggie. It was great. So she was like, probably.

She was like, probably in the next 15 minutes. I was like, great. That's what time of our reservation is anyway. It's fine. I was like, can we go to the bar? No. Just not, no alternative. No.

She, I swear to God, I think she said we don't have a bar. Is that possible? They had a bar. I saw it with my own eyes. But I think they seat the bar for reservations. But there was a bar for sure, but maybe they just want to keep the bar area clear. So she was like, but you can have a drink out here. like there was a table outside on the sidewalk basically and I was like okay can we get can we order

drinks she was like um I'll send my manager over to you threw the whole system in a disarranged literally I was just asking okay we're here early we'll wait we're being like can we get it the manager the manager comes over the first time this has ever happened you're the biggest Karen on earth she's like someone help me take care of this person she wants a drink the manager comes over so happy to help. We're not doing anything crazy. I got a glass watch. Shoshan got a beer. We sit. We wait. And I go, I'm going to go check out that cave. So I go and I walk back. It's in the back of the restaurant. And it is beautiful. But there's one couple dining in there. It was not a vibe. And I was like, I would have a birthday in here. It was just like an overflow room, probably private dining.

Did you feel like a cave? Yes. It was like dark and it was pretty. She was right. With the rocks around it? It just felt like dark and moody. You think that they call it the cave internally. And like that's just, that's not supposed to be front facing. Right. Like, that's in the handbook. So I was like, the cave is nice. I would come back here for like a birthday party, whatever. So as I'm walking back through, I see the bar.

Oh, there's a bar. I could have got up to the bar order to drink. The bar was not that bad. I'm like, okay, there is a bar. She doesn't know where she is. And as I'm walking through the dining room, I'm like, there's plenty of two tops available. We're obviously about to get sat.

And so I come back and as I pass the host to stand, she's like, your table is ready. I'm like, yeah, obviously I can see it. So the manager has just delivered my wine. She hasn't delivered to Shaw-Exbier yet because we didn't have to wait that long. And then we go in and we sit at the table, which I knew the one we would sit at. And we had a lovely experience. But I was like, this is just this very specific L.A. hostess and perfectly nice and got it done, but did not know where she was, I feel like.

And what is it? What are you on? Just like a beta blocker with. beta blocker with a little bit of weed, maybe. Yeah, this drug is a mix of beta blockers. It's a low-dose edible mix with beta-blockers. Like, I'm so envious sometimes of these people, like this ignorance is bliss. Like, I just, I feel like I got so much stuff going on at all times to think about, like,

point it be so nice to think about another. I know. But that restaurant scenario, it's a smaller restaurant, the stakes are low. Like, hostesses have to run these restaurants like the Navy sometimes. I worked at a chain restaurant. I worked at Lone Star. I was not qualified for that job to have a giant restaurant with an hour weight in the middle of Dover, Delaware on a Friday night, totally unqualified.

And then a lot of restaurants in New York City and you have people breathing on your neck and people are getting in your face. I mean, there's a restaurant I can think of in La Jolla for brunch where it's just like the sidewalk is packed with people. Like you've got to have it locked and tight. And I just feel like a smaller restaurant in Venice, do whatever. So when I worked for Danny Meyer, who. He is the founder of Shake Shack, but in New York City, he owns like Union Square Cafe and

Marmesee Tavern and Maillino and so many restaurants. And my first management job was for Union Square Cafe and I was the host reservations managers in charge of all the hostesses and the reservationists. And there was a book like 12 inches thick and it was like, if this, then that. And it was every scenario you could have ever imagined in your life, it was so stupid and granular. It was like, if somebody doesn't like their table, if somebody flags you down and asks to order something. If somebody flags you down and says I didn't, I want this drink, not that drink,

like a waiter's job, not a hostess's job. There was like a hundred scenarios in this book that I had to train people on when they came through the door. Like, if you asked, we can only seat eight people per table, we didn't have tables for 10. So if somebody called and said, I'd like reservation for 10, you couldn't just say like, we don't do that. You'd say like, well, we don't put grammar see tavern dozen years. The number for Grams to Sea Tavern. Like, it was so specific, but like, that is where you rise to greatness. Exactly. A hundred percent. I mean, there's two types of restaurants.

Well, there's so many different types. But I'm saying like, sorry, those are the far ends of the spectrum. But yes, Danny Meyer, I mean, you're talking like a publicly traded company. They have all the time in the world. I mean, that's why he's the goat. He wrote the best books about hospitality. But that, I just like, this is crazy, but it's the most popular restaurants. I feel like we learned early on in Sex and the City how much power some of these hosts have.

They hold all the power. At a hot spot. All the power of the world. So, I mean, and the thing about this girl, she was. to the nines. Like pencils. Yeah, she looked put together, just not, nothing going on. A lot of brain.

I will say I'll take somebody a little spacey other than what I've dealt with in New York so much, which is just people that like won't look up from their phone, won't look up from the reservation. I mean, I love So House. I'm glad that we're members. It helps me to travel and stay in those hotels. But the way people treat you when you check in there in New York, like the flesh is going to melt off their face.

They've been kind of nicer. Have they? My biggest pet peeve is walking up to a host stand, a counter at a coffee shop, a retail store, anything, and someone doesn't fucking look up. It's crazy. Even to say, I'll be right with you, I went to a store in Philly, like a merch type store. Two guys were working in that store. I was in there five minutes. No one said a word.

Like not welcome. Let me know if you need anything. Like I understand sometimes you're busy. You're in the weeds. but you work in the service industry. Like someone, a customer comes in, they should be acknowledged. I think it's crazy. I used to say it about Sweet Green.

There was the early days of Sweet Green. I've never felt so abused by those people. Really? They were the rude at this. Were they? People. And like, I still fuck with Sweet Green, but I had some experience. I was like, they look through you.

They act like you're not there. The top is Zara. Zara, yes. Zara is the top. We're like, I'm pretty sure during the interview process, they're like, how rude do you? think you can be. Let's roll play it. Well, Abercrombie in the 90s is the top.

Because they were... Were they rude or they were told to be... I had a friend that worked there and they were not told to be nice and friendly. Like, they were like, make customers work for your attention. Don't help anybody. Everybody wants us. Body shame everybody. Because the people who worked at Abercrombie were like an elite of themselves.

So they were like, act like it. What's Zara's excuse? I don't know. ours is just like you, if somebody wants these cheap fines, they will be treated as like dog shit. Yeah. And listen, I mean, you know, you're working retail. You're dealing with shitty people. You work customer service. I get it. But like we have had some experiences in New York that it is just like, oh, I'm being, it's abusive. Are you mad at me? Well, we have a great episode for you guys today about money. And we're just going to thank our partners and we'll get into it with Mrs. Dow Jones. Yes. So I am so excited to tell you guys about Nutraful. This is my go-to supplement for.

for my hair. I've been taking it for years. I can't imagine my life without it. If you guys have any sort of issue, hair thinning, shedding, if you're dealing with a postpartum or just aging, menopause, whatever it is, they are going to figure out the root cause and take that proactive approach to target it. So you can see improved hair growth, decreased shedding, visible thickness while taking Nutraful, it's clinically tested. You're going to take four capsules daily with a meal. I take the women's formula. There's also women's vegan, women's balance, postpartum and men's. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, and it's the number

one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutriful's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport, and clinically tested. So I don't know anything else that works like this. I mean, everybody we ever talk to that is doing anything for their hair, this is what they're using. Hair dressers also. Yes.

Everybody recommends. Yes. Anyone I've ever talked to from a, again, dermatologist to a hairdresser is like, this is the thing. So it really is such an easy thing to incorporate into your daily routine. You order online, no prescription needed, automated deliveries, free shipping. And you can let your hair be one less thing to worry about. You can see visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutraful.

For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you visit Nutraful.com and enter promo code GGE10. That's Nutraful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code G-G-E-10. And this episode is sponsored. heard by BetterHelp. This actually, this topic could not be better for this episode. It is about financial stress. So truly like one of the biggest problems I've ever had in relationships, two of them that I would say ended over money and us being misaligned about how we spent. And whether you want to go to therapy for how you spend as a couple or you just are under financial

stress, I mean, it can be so debilitating to go through your day and feel like I don't know how I'm going to pay off this debt. 88% of Americans feel some form of financial stress at the start of 2026 and money worries. I mean, the way that I used to feel in my 20s, I just, I couldn't sleep. I was anxious all day. It leads to depression and, of course, a lot of conflict for couples. So therapy can really help you to address these problems and think of a plan, better help as quality therapists. They work according to a strict code of conduct and her flu license in the U.S. And they do an initial matching for you so that they can match you with somebody who can work on your therapy goals and they'll send you a questionnaire and you'll answer all those questions.

And if you aren't happy to match, they will switch you to a different therapist at any time with their tailored recommendations and they have over 30,000 therapists. So they are the world's largest online therapy platform. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash GGE. That's better. H-E-L-P-Help.com slash G-G-E. Okay. And Mother's Day is coming up. It's this Sunday, May 10th. I had to check for myself because I feel like we've been talking about Mother's Day. I'm like, when is it? I never, I never know. So you can still get this incredible gift for mom or a mother figure. in your life or any woman in your life. This is Storyworth. We love it. So this is just the perfect gift.

I mean, this is a perfect gift for a parent, a family member, but again, for Mother's Day. And if you are working a last minute with it, this is what you can do this week. It really is so special. A lot of Mother's Day gifts are just, you know, they're about the one moment or about the flowers or jewelry, but StoryWorth is so much more. It gives your mom a year-long experience and it gives your family a book filled with stories only she can tell. So what you get at the end of it is this beautiful book. We have them for our parents and they have all these stories in them. The way that it works is that each week's story worth is going to send your mom or whoever you give the book to a question about their life. They are going to respond however they want, writing back and forth over

email, or they can do a voice recording or new this year, a guided phone call. They make it super easy. No apps, logins or tech hassle. It's easy for your parents, or grandparents, trust me. It's easy for the elder people in your life. And then you can help even pick the questions. You can just go with what they choose, the prewritten ones. Or you can write your parents. Or you can write your own or let them create personalized questions based on your mom's life, for example. You get each story as she tells it, and then they compile the book with photos, if you want, into this beautiful hardcover book. And over 50,000 five-star reviewers agree it will be a treasure your family will love. We love it so, so much. And then this year, new, a storyworth's unlimited plan. So you buy it once

and you'll be able to give storyworth memoirs to friends and family all year has the newest features, multiple full-color book copies. That means you can get all your mother's day gifts for your mom, grandma and any mom figures in your life. Plus take care of Father's Day gifts while you're at it. Just do the unlimited. I mean, gifts for everybody. You never have to think about it again. So this year, give mom a gift that helps to reflect on her life with fresh perspective and gives

your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's Day is Sunday, May 10th. Order right now and save up to $20 at storyworth.com slash gge. Save up to $20 at storyworth.com slash gge storyworth.com slash ggee. And let's get into it. All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guests today. she is a leading voice making financial literacy

actually accessible and attainable. She has been named to Fortune's 40 under 40, one ad week's creator of the year for personal finance, and she is recognized as Money Magazine's ChangeMaker and one of TikTok's most inspiring women in business. She hosts the podcast Financial Tea, and she is the author of the upcoming book, Future Rich Person.

Please welcome to this show. Haley Sachs, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. And you were highly requested by our audience for a long time. Yes, so it's perfect timing. You were highly requested by me just to be on the show because I am obsessed with the show. And I like can't, I told you like, I'm starstruck.

I know. If I sound crazy the first three minutes, it's just because I'm like settling into the fact that I'm here. This feels really good, Haley. Thank you. You know, because sometimes we have guests come up in here. They don't realize how famous we are. And I appreciate it. I don't think we're famous, but we've had guests come up and here like, who are you again?

And you came in. We're like, we love you and you're like, we love you. It's such a nice way to start an interview. Well, it's, you know, I love your content, but I also love your business acumen. Like I was saying, like it's amazing to see what you've built in like a 360 degree way. Like the sex toy line, hello, genius, Kim Kardashian, who? I love to see girls with multiple revenue streams. This is the new American dream.

Well, thank you. And we've done episodes, I mean, pretty much yearly with different people and finance. And our audience just, they love it and they love you and they really wanted you on the show and you've this book coming out. And it's fantastic. And it's new video. look at money and how the system is stacked against you and all these things. So we're going to talk about all of it. I have a question for you first. Yes. So Mrs. Dow Jones. Yes. How do you feel about Pam Bondi trying to steal your name a few months back? I really feel like she tried to

think. Well, I feel a little bit off about like a few different things with her. But she really did come for me with the Dow's at 50K. Like keep my name out of your mouth, Pam. Are you kidding? Well, she's fired. Yeah, she's not. And why do you think she got fired? Exactly. You know? Like that's the same. You know, like that's the same. You know, Cease and desist. Karma. Yes, and also those. Like, I literally thought of your handle when that came out.

I'm like, she's really coming for Mrs. Dow Jones' spot. Yeah, it was a big moment for me, I would say. For the Dow. Yeah, for the Dow. For all of us who have to do, Rupert Murdoch and I were sort of, like, you know, texting about it. It was a big moment as a brand for us to be mentioned in the Senate hearing. He's still alive.

That's crazy. It's up there with like four seasons, total landscaping. Like, it's a crazy moment that she brought. the Dow into the mix when she did. Defenseless. And by that's like, it's like when you really have nothing else to say, that's what you say. It's like if you catch a guy cheating and he's like, but you never said happy birthday to my mom. And it's like, wait, that's not the point.

Like you cheated, you know? The Dow's at 50. Yeah, the Dow's at 50K. Okay. She gone and you prevail. They prevail. Pam's gone, but Haley's here. So maybe tell us about your background a little bit and like how you came to become a financial expert.

Yeah. So I think like many women, I was not taught about finance or really empowered at all to take care of my own finances or to feel like I had any sort of acumen towards anything to have to do with investing, which is so funny because I grew up on the Upper East side around money. So I always love talking about money and I understood the power of money, right? Like it really, you know, it changes the way that you see someone. if they have it, if they don't. Maybe you want to be around people who have more access to things. Like I understood that, okay, this is something that sort of makes the world tick, but that was also coupled by this great insecurity of like, ooh, how am I going to do this? Like, either got to land a man who's going to, like, you know, sail this ship or hopefully my dad will do it for me. And then I was in comedy.

I sort of graduated around the time of like Tina Faye and Amy Poehler and Mindy Kaling and, you know, all those women, I feel like it really impacted me to be like, okay, like you can have this strong voice in media. That sounds so appealing. I'll start by, you know, working for David Letterman. I was a page and I'm going to start doing stand-up. And so I sort of did that for four years. I was a nanny for a kid named Winthrop on the Upper East Side. Yes, his actual name was Winthrop. That is disconcerting. I need a four-year-old. I know you're not trying to dox him right now. No, I'll say it. Because I feel like there's a third in there. Like, like, yeah. the third. Yes. And by the way, the school that he went to, guess who else his kids go there?

Eric Trump or whatever. One of the Trumps. Is it Dalton? No, Buckley. Similar to Dalton. They're such little, they are really, I mean. But I got him because I would never actually make him dinner. I would just microwave a hamburger, which is illegal. I mean, that's cool. You can't keep him humble. You don't do that for someone that you really, if you're really putting your back into a job. I don't think you're putting like the gray meat in the microwave. But you know what I, like it was a storm of protest. I think Winthrop's parents should have had a chef for him like everybody else up there. It sounds like his parents didn't love him.

Why was that your option? It's so true. It's actually not my fault. It's their fault. That's how I operate. You know what? Let's flip this narrative. No, like the fact that Winthrop's parents were like, give him the dog food.

We don't care. Exactly. But we have to justice for Winthrop because we had a deal that he could watch wrestling after school. He wasn't ought to watch TV. And I could work on my internet content because I was always like obsessed with the internet, obsessed with digital media, you know. And so we had a nice arrangement.

I thought you're going to tell me he, like, stole money out of his parents' wallet for you. No, I picture this. You're like, I'm going to do my work. And you can watch WWE. That's amazing. Yeah, and by the, like, it worked out for both of us. Like, we both were consumed by our path. Yeah, he's a wrestler.

Exactly. And it's all because of me. He's actually coming on. It's actually Mike Cina's real name. He's going to be at WrestleMania. We got invited and we can't make it. We actually are we supposed to go to WrestleMania. We have a wedding or we would literally be in WrestleMania, 42 in Vegas.

With Winthrop. Winthrop, a patched a wrestler name for Winthrop. You never see it coming. You're like, Winthrop's not going to whip my ass, and then he just beats you to the ground. The narrative sort of writes itself. He could wear like a little, like, tie. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you don't really see those kind of costumes in the WOWE, but I feel like there's an opening. Because he did wear like a little suit, which is so crazy. Children should not have suits. But I digress. So anyways, so everything was W9, and it had nothing.

I wasn't really thinking about my future. I feel like I was in that place in my 20s. that a lot of us get lost in a little bit where we, and it's a bit of magical thinking where you think that everyone else is sort of on your page and we're ignoring our finances and we're fun and we're young and we're wild and free. And like this is just like one day we're going to have a Nancy Myers house. But right now, like we don't know how we're getting from A to C, but we can just be

sort of stupid about it and not really pay attention to it. And I think also a lot of that comes from just not feeling confident. You know what I mean? Like so much of it was just I was disempowered. And so I assumed it wasn't for me. and so I ignored it and I avoided it and I thought that like it was cool to be sort of bad with money. Yeah. Yep.

Then I got my job for Lord Michaels who started S&L, which was a huge deal for me and especially probably for my family because they were like, cool, so you're not going to work at a potty studio your whole life. Like maybe you're going to have a job. Like that's cool. You're going to get off the train at 30 a.m. With the rest of corporate America, felt like a big deal. The first day I had what I would call my aha money moment where it was a, I really,

wanted to do a great job at that job. And I was also, I was sort of blindsided by the job where I thought, okay, this is what it's going to take for me to have a full career. They're going to do it for me. So I better give this everything. I'm going to give them everything because they are the bridge into all of the career success that I want. And the first day they asked me out 401ks and health insurance and all those things that you're supposed to know, people assume you know, but you're never taught. And I was pretty embarrassed that I didn't know any of it. And so then I went home. home. I was like, cool, for sure. Like, I'll get back to you guys. Like, and I just want to say, I'm so happy to be here. I'm going to see myself out, but I'll be back tomorrow. And then I went

that night and started to, you know, YouTube, what is a 401k? Roth IRA versus, you know, regular, traditional IRA, all of these financial terms that no one had ever explained to me. And I went down this rabbit hole. And what I found was either content for men that was really about investing, but the guys who were teaching it were just so jargon heavy. Yeah. And looked like they'd never been through puberty. Like they were not someone that I would ever want to hang out with, go on a date with, like go near. Like it was just lame or it was sort of female centered content that was so focused on saving.

Of course it was. Yeah. And like making your life suck. Like I swear. Yeah. There was a one that told me to wash and reuse paper towels. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this.

We talked about this. We talked about Dorrie Dunlop. You talk about this. Yeah. Men are taught how to invest in grow their wealth and women are taught how to like scrimp and safe. Yes. And that your things that you like are silly and superfluous. The lattes, but they can sports gamble.

Like, it's a whole thing. Yes. Yeah. And so, men are like, bet on yourself. You'll make it back. And women, it's like, you better have a nest egg, you know, and keep your money under a small mattress. Stop white avocado toast.

Yeah. Learn to brew your own water. Learn to brew your own water. Exactly. That was it. And so I was like, certainly this can't be the financial wisdom of our time. And so then as a way to sort of, teach myself, I always say like I'm patient zero, which I think sort of is also what's different

about me versus financial other financial experts too, is it sort of sometimes feels like when you listen to people talk about, who are good with money, talk about it. It almost feels like they had like a certain DNA or something to get that way. Like, oh, you were born that way. Or like you, you know, you have something that I don't have. You, like, you have a different chip than me. But for me, like, no, I really did make the transition. Like I wasn't the kid who was at 10 years old hustling her lemonade stand money into the stock market. I didn't know what the stock market. I thought it was the sock market. Like I literally, I thought my dad sold socks. So that was a long time. You know, I've never admitted that publicly. And this is a brave. That's brave, right?

It's exclusive. It's exclusive. Thank you for picking that up, TMZ. So yeah, so then I started to teach myself and, you know, I was loved making digital content. So I was like, okay, I'll teach myself online thinking, yeah, there's going to be some people who probably feel the same way as I do where they're like, hey, what the hell? We want to learn about this. But there's not like a way that to learn about it, that it feels aspirational. Because I couldn't understand why is it aspirational to spend money and to show off your money, but why does it feel so lousy to be good with your money? Why do we feel sort of embarrassed when we have to tell our friend that we can't afford to do something? Or that we like are cutting back in a certain place or that we, you know, are focused on this

financial goal that makes it so we can't do this other thing. Like, why do we sort of cower at that? It's like the whole thing with bachelor at parties. People are so scared to just say no, because maybe they have a different financial goal. But like, there's some sort of social pressure to always be keeping up with your friends and the Joneses, but why can't we have the social pressure be to max out your Roth IRA, to feel really good about your budget, to be negotiating your raise, to be investing consistently. You know what I mean? Totally. So that was the switch that I wanted to make, and I didn't see someone doing that. And so I started to do it myself. But aspirational content, but also accessible. Like, that's the whole thing.

Like, the way it used to be was, we don't speak this language and I'm not trying to learn. so we love people like you in the space. Like you can handle this. You're smart enough to handle this. It's also, it's like seventh grade math. Like when you actually get into it, it's not. Men can do it. Men can do it. How hard could it be?

Like that's what you realize the moment that you start to actually like take control of your finances. And I talk about this a lot in the book. It's like you don't need to be some sort of expert to have a great financial system that will set you up to be a future rich person. You really just have to get like four things right. Okay. You know?

What are the fourth? Okay, let's talk about it. So first of all, and I say this in the book, you have to have the right account set up. So a lot of us have bank accounts that we got in college that they gave us a pen. And we were like, great. There's a free patent. I'm obviously banking with them. And then now we're like 35 and we're still with that bank. And we never look at actually, what are the fees? What are the monthly charges? Things like that. So the first thing that you need to do is make sure that you have the right accounts, make sure that you have. have a bank account that you like, that you actually like using the app for, that you're not going to, like, resent logging into every month. Like, make sure that you have a seamless financial system

and that you... Fits your vibe. Fits your vibe. Yeah, find a bank that's more you. You know what I mean? I love the app. Yeah, I don't love that. Yeah, the app is so good. The interface. The interface is really easy. Yeah, the UI is so good. No, for a lot. No, I like the colors. The colors are so good. And that's important. And then also having a high yield savings account. Okay. So you sort of want to, like, have those things set up. And then the next thing that you want to do is save an emergency fund. So you need like six months of bare bones living expenses and you're going to put that in your high yield savings account. And then you're going to set up an automated system for your financial life. So that's like the third thing that you really need to get right is making sure that like

when you get paid, you have a system where it's going into that bank account that we like. and then it's also going into the high yield savings account and it's putting money into that every month and it's all automated and we're also putting money towards our high industry debt and these things these goals that we have are just happening seamlessly without us even wondering so you mentioned automation and I never really thought about it because all my systems are automated now but like I don't think about it it just happens and I don't have the clicking that button every month used to be really scary and upsetting for me when I was in my 20s I was paying off student loans like having to go in log in pay these bills it's just if the I just came out. I didn't think about it as much. So automating and your bill paid too, right?

Yeah, yeah. You get paid. You get paid. And then it goes in these different places. Yeah, you have like a whole system for it. So you're, yeah. Hurts less, you know. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Harts less. Your credit card will be paid off in time. You know that you're saving. Like, I swear I would not have, I would not have built any wealth without automation. Because for me, like, I'm pretty tight beat. So like, I could wake up and tell you that I'm going to drink green juice and run a marathon. and like, you know, never text my ex, but by 3 p.m. I'm like eating a cookie and like I just FaceTime to him and like I don't know like I'm going to go to bed at 2 a.m. Like it's like they could take many turns. Totally. And we are at 9 a.m. different person. Exactly. And so what I talk a lot about in the book is this idea of financial energy and that we all have a finite amount of financial energy. We have a finite amount of energy to begin with, but we have a finite amount of financial

energy, which is like energy towards our finances. And something that women, I think, get really caught up with, which sort of goes back to the washing of the paper towel thing, is that the media loves to tell us to spend our financial energy on tasks that actually don't move the needle, such as couponing, such as washing paper towels, such as there's a million examples of it, like things that maybe buying an onion instead of just buying the pre-chopped onion, and that that's going to really be what creates wealth for you not buying the pre-chop vegetables, you know, where it's like, okay, maybe it's like a $5 tax every time that you go to the store to do that. And so the idea is to use your financial energy instead on the things that will move the needle that are actually, you're going to see a huge difference from.

So like automation is one of those for sure. Negotiating your salary is another one that's really big. Like the things that are actually going to bring more wealth to you and make it so that you're infallible when it comes to money and it doesn't matter what your human nature says, you have a system built up that's bigger than that. I have two questions for you. Okay. So you some people, I mean, saving $5 is a lot out of a paycheck. A 100%. Do you have a percentage of every paycheck where you're like put this percentage into a savings

account? I mean, it could be $5 for people. Well, okay. So I do have percentages and I share these in the book too, but I want to preface this by saying like wherever you're starting is great. Like it's like it doesn't. Yes, I talk in the book about the 50, 30, 20 method. So 50% of your after tax income goes to needs.

30% goes to wants and 20% is action money. So that's the money that we're putting towards your financial goals. So like that could be saving your, maybe your financial goal saving your emergency fund. So that's all going towards that. Maybe it's paying off your high interest rate debt. It's all going to that. Maybe it's maxing out your Roth IRA. It's all going to that.

But like when I started my financial journey, my ratios, you think they're 50, 30, 20, 20, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Like they were like probably like 40, 40. 70. Like I think I was over. doing it. Like, you know what I mean? Just on wants. I didn't have anything towards future you. And then it took me like a year to make these small changes to then get closer to that. And also what really helped, to be honest, was increasing my income, which I think people don't talk about enough.

We have to talk about it. And, you know, we want to acknowledge that people are listening to this. And like, I don't have money to say. Exactly. And that was me. Most of my 20s. I don't know if I saved a dime until I was 28 or 29, really. And so, we want to speak to those people too. Like there's two camps. There's like, I do have money. I do have money to pay my bills, put it in my high-old savings account. I'm not doing it.

And here's where to start. And you're lucky, you know, you have that luxury. And there's people that like, I don't even, you're saying saving and I'm barely scraping by. So did we cover your four things, though, before we get into? We're automating. Okay, automating. We make sure that our accounts are, that we like our accounts. So we have a really cute bank accounts and high-ield savings accounts.

And then we're focusing on our, emergency fund. Okay. And we're focusing on our high interest rate debt. Okay. Okay. I want to say one more thing about automation. One part of the book that I really liked was you're actually, the analogy used was

getting off of Adderall and how people go back to old habits. And so any new habit is really tough. And so anything you can automate, I think is really important. Because like I will go back to the like, every day is treat myself day. And every day is like, let's spend 70% of my income. So anything that you can like break a pattern and just force yourself to do it. And I love that you got like really honest in the book. You were like, I had this addiction to this drug.

And I just kept going back to it. Yeah. And that is what spending is for so many people. I mean, I have a shopping addiction. It's hard to break those things. Yeah. And it's also, and I'm happy to talk about my, in the book, I'm like, I know this isn't a rock stars memoir, but I'm going to talk about pills.

And like, that's what makes the book cool because it's like, you know, get a little flavor. I didn't expect it. And it's about money. I loved it. No, it's fun. But like, it's the really why I compare it to that is because with coming off of of Adderall, like it was, I put so much energy towards it to get off of it. And it wasn't like I was

doing it illegally. It was just that I was dependent on it since I was little. And then the moment that I slipped up, I went right back to it because I didn't really understand why. But I think also because there's this idea in the culture that like if you do a habit for 21 days, then you're just going to become a new person and never want to not do the habit again. And I am on the other side of like being a financial expert at this point. I'm a millionaire. It's like I have done the whole thing successfully and sometimes I never want to, sometimes I don't want to do it. So it's like let's be honest about that too that like sometimes to be the best versions of ourselves, we have to do things that are hard and that we don't want to do. And like that might be how you feel about your finances, especially as a

woman because there's so much against us in the culture that's making us have all this resistance to even taking those first steps. So you have to overcome a lot to even face things. And things. Yeah. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll get right back into it. I'm telling you guys about article. I mean, you guys know my whole personality is decorating my house. So I really could not recommend article more. Article makes it effortless to create stylish, long lasting home at unbeatable price. So whatever room you're looking to address, whether it's inside or outside, they offer a curated range of different types of products. So my house, I live at the beach. I like a lot of like boho and scandy type of furniture, but they have mid-century modern. They also have coastal.

There's all kinds of different things to choose from. And they've curated these. collections to look so beautiful. It's so high-end looking. And if you're really like, I don't know how to decorate anything, just go on their website, go on their Instagram, see what other people have put together these rooms. So they really take the guesswork out of it. But everything I've gotten from there is so high quality. So, you know, it's coming up on summertime. Let's talk about outdoor furniture. I've bought some real junk of outdoor furniture and it just sits outside and just like rots away. And article, the quality is so nice. So I like this Luback, L-U-B-E-K, outdoor low love seed in Slate gray, but they have like different wood stains. They

different colors. There's always like a lot of versatility and the stuff that they sell in terms of the materials that they use. Great, great quality without having to compromise. The pricing is fantastic. So they cut out the middleman. The quality is always consistent. So great packaging, the weight and feel of everything. Fast affordable shipping. Support when you need it. Ashley and I are big, big, big sticklers for support. Can you get somebody on the phone? We're sticklers. We're big, dad. Or big Karens about me. I mean, listen, don't start a company if you can't have good company support. We want support. we need it. We need support. Then they have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. So with article's 30-day

satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence knowing you can return it if you are not completely in love with what you get. If you were in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table or bed, head over to article. Did you notice we hung that big, I don't think even in my house. I don't know if you saw it in a picture, but I just took down this thing that I wasn't loving and then we put up the big article like mirror with the, it's like wicker around it. It's like hanging in the living room now. Where did you put it? You hung it? Yeah, it's over in like the dining area. It's gorgeous. Pable?

Yeah. By the dog photos? I took down the dogs. What? I thought maybe you might want to, like, sell them. I would want to sell it, yes. You might want to sell it to Postmark. I have the certificate of authenticity.

I'll get you a good deal on that. Just give me a spell list to it. Give me that shit. I'm running a whole scheme. I'll have that sold by the end of the week. You know, it's unexpected stuff sells that I sell luggage all the time. Crazy amounts of luggage on Poshmark. Okay, if you guys are curious, it's the Maron,

M-E-R-O-N, round-wall mirror in natural. It's $249. It is stunning. Way cheaper than those dogs. I prefer a mirror over dog art, but... I love the dog art. It's just the colors. It was too pink.

I just was like, this is just... Okay. I'm telling you guys about AG1. If you guys are busy right now, we've never been busier. Raina is just like, she's going to die. I don't know. I really hope you're taking your AG1.

Because what you have, as we record, it'll be over by now. Hopefully you'll still be alive. I'll be back on a stretcher. This, like, tour week you have. is just absolutely insane. So when life gets full, your health can usually take a backseat. Raina can tell you because she was sick earlier this year.

So AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin pre-in probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants, one scoop, eight ounces of water, just mix it in, drink it. The next gen formula delivers 75 ingredients backed by four clinical trials. So if you have late nights, long weekends, a tour, spontaneous plans, whatever you guys got going on, AG1 can help you keep one thing consistent. It's high quality nutritional support every single day, no matter. where you start your morning. So we both like to take it in the morning part of that morning routine. Just start your day with it, get it over with, get all the benefits. And you

guys can check it out. AG1 is over 50,000 verified five-star reviews and comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee. Visit drinkag1.com slash g-ge to get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 in your AG1 welcome kit when you first subscribe, which is a $72 value. That's drinkag1.com slash gge. Drinkag1.com slash GG. Well, let's talk about how the system is rigged against us. Women and just, just, you know, Americans. Like, everything is not, it's not designed. It's designed for a certain small percentage of people. And the average person, it's working against us. So how do you combat that? Wait, can I ask you one question? Yeah. You said that when you were, you didn't really save money till you were 29. So do you think that what the change was that you just started to make more money? Yeah. It was just that I chose a path that I was like working for myself. I mean, it was working in low paying jobs, working in a magazine. working in PR and then I went out on my own completely as a freelance writer. I mean, I was making no money and I just saw big things for myself. It's interesting your story. It resonated because when I was little, I was attracted to like the families in town that had money and I was like,

I want to be rich. Like I felt that nice cars and nice. And we were just a normal family and we had all of our needs met, but we weren't wealthy and I felt like I saw that life for myself. And your story spoke to me, but I'm like, I have no idea all that's going to happen. And I, of course, we all with a Nancy Meyer's house, but we're not on that. track. I didn't have a trust fund. I didn't really like rich guys. I know it sucks, right? So it's like, how am I going to get there? Yeah. I think that I work really hard and I'm smart and I believe in myself and I have big, big dreams. But part of it's, I want to say is just like I was making poor financial decisions for most of my 20s. And then it just happened for me and then I got smart about

it. And then I was like, it's a weird thing because when you are not making money, you don't care about saving money. So once I started to make it, then it meant a lot to save it. And then I got, I really got off on the money on my savings account because I had never had it. Yeah. It was like that thing. It's like the thing of when you eat bad and then you just say, fuck it for the rest of the day or rest of the week where, you know, once you start making it, then I started taking it more seriously. Yeah. That's, I and I say the first financial goal that people should reach is really just getting $1,000 in their high yield savings account. And that feels so good. And you can sprint towards it too. Like remember that moment. Yeah. 100%. And it's like then and

also gives you so much self-belief. Yes. But I do think also, like, there's such a toxic, like, side hustle culture, too, where people think that if they're not making enough at their jobs, they just need to, like, add more in. But it's like, what if you're a nurse who is working at a hospital and already working 100 hours a week? What you're supposed to, and you want to make more money? You're supposed to side hustle. No, sometimes it's about taking a step back and saying, wait, maybe I should do private nursing instead, because that pays like 1.5x more. You know what I mean? Like, It's not that, and we should talk about the new American dream and how the old American dream is dead. Of course, favorite topic. But I think a lot of it is also just like being more creative with our

paths because for our parents, they had so much security being in the same job for 30 years, 40 years. But for us, it's much more choose your own adventure and you have to drive your own ship or else you're going to get stuck in those jobs that aren't giving. It's a lot of sunk cost fallacy. We put a lot of time into something. So we think that because we've invested in it, it has value, but really only the only thing that has value is the thing that is paying you back. Yeah. And I mean, listen, it sucks. A teacher should get paid more. I mean, there's all these jobs that we really need that are never going to be high enough paid in our lifetime. I hope that they are. But it's just there are a lot of things that are stacked against us. So I don't really

to start with that. But just in general, like, how do we shift our mindset and make more? I think it's hard to get raises at your current job. And I remember when I worked at like, Amazon, I did start this side hustle because I was like, I'll add some more in. And what I ended up doing was actually a bad job at both jobs. I did a bad job at my side hustle. I did a bad job at Amazon. But I think we'd raise men to know how to negotiate and ask for more money and to change jobs if they're not making as much money.

But I don't know that all women were raised with like the negotiation strategy. And they're afraid to walk into a room and demand more money and say, I'm doing more work. I would like what it's worth. And I think that we stack that against women as well. I didn't know how to do that. but nobody around me knew how to do that. And to Ashley's point, also, I started to get better with money because I made more money. Yeah.

But I didn't just wake up and learn how to do any of these things. I remember watching Wolf of Wall Street and I was like, I was reading the book. And I was like texting my brother. Like, I don't understand any of these concepts. But like, I'm just as smart as he is. I could have understood it. But I had no idea what any of this was about. Yeah.

I'm like, there's so many things just like, first of all, I'm like, well, let's talk about how to get a raise. Yeah, let's talk about it. First of all, like the most important thing is. is to have a win folder, like at your job, to have a paper trail at work, create this like literally today, if you're watching this, where you're tracking all of your wins because it's really hard to ask for more money

if you don't know why you deserve it. Totally. What are you doing? Don't walk in that room. Do not start the conversation with, I think I'm doing more work so I would like more money. They're like, prove it. We've had this happen to us.

And we're like, mm. Should you get your wind folder out. Yeah, a little bit. Like it's like, so what exactly have you been doing? 100%. Like you don't, you don't just get a raise because you've been there for a certain amount of time. You get a raise because you're more valuable and they don't want to lose you.

And so really make sure that you're tracking those wins. And then I actually think this is like a great opportunity to use AI because a lot of it is just not having experience, having that conversation. And so what I talk about in the book, because I tried to make it like really modern for like what are all the tools that we can use for now. So there is a bit about like how to use AI to improve your life, improve your finances. And you can actually have the chatbot like role play with you as your boss. So you can then like have the experience of having gone through what I'm going to talk about this like what the what the sore points are. And so you got a little bit more familiar. Another way to do this is just talking in the mirror, but just having that, you know, practice a little bit is always good. And then be really cautious also about when you're asking for the raise. Like did you just find. find out that the company's earnings are in the toilet? Okay, maybe not the moment. Like, maybe we look for different jobs. Like, is it a Friday at 5 p.m? And they don't know what's coming.

Like, you know, be cautious about when you're actually like going to have the conversation and then always follow up with receipts. But I will say on the other side of things, now that I have my own business, two things are a huge green flag for me. And one is when people negotiate their salaries when I hire them. And the others when they ask for raises. And so I think a lot of it is also we think that we're going to lose our jobs or that it like makes us look greedy or bad if we ask for more. But I will say like now being on the other side, it actually just makes you look valuable and like someone that I don't want to lose and that I have to sort of buck up and pay the entry fee for or I'm going, you're going to walk away from me because you have so much worth and you've like

contributed so much to my company. And I think about the people that work for us and I've worked with Ashley and I for years and what it would cost us to replace people who are so valuable to us is way more money than giving somebody a raise. 100%. So like don't like just know that it's a normal part of life, but in the same way that like, you know, you're not going to cook a souffle without a recipe. Like, you've never been taught this. So it's normal for it to feel sort of weird, but you still have to do it because guess what? Also, everyone felt weird at the beginning. Like even the richest people alive, Warren Buffett didn't, wasn't bored knowing about the stock market. He also had to learn. Like, you know what I mean? Like everyone ultimately starts from zero at a certain point. You're, you guys are

a top podcast. You had a first episode once. Yeah. You know, like it's like we all have to start from somewhere and the most important thing is just to start. Yes, I love that you say that. And there you have a great quote and I can't recall it. But just like you don't have to be rich to start, but you have to start to be. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly. Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. Okay. So just and to wrap it up on the asking for a raise, I mean, you have your wins. You go and you present them. Here's what I'm doing. Here's why I'm amazing. And you know, talk about the raise. And then would you suggest like here's what I will bring to the table going forward? I mean, do you subscribe to that? I've been asked for a raise in a while. Like, you know, I'm going to do more. Are you more just like, here's what I've been doing,

and I would like to discuss my current salary? I think you talk about how what you have been doing. And then if they say no, this is what's really important, is that if they don't give you the raise, but you have all the data for why you deserve the raise, you need to understand what KPIs do need to be hit in order for you to get to that next level. And then if you don't hit, if you hit them and they don't give you a raise, then you really have to go.

You know, like that's not a company that you're actually going to move up. Right. And so that's important. And but I think that if also someone says no, I talk about this in the book too, is to make sure you have your batina, which is the best alternative to negotiated agreement. So if they say no to an increase in your salary, could you got a different title? Could you get more days off? Could you get more days working from home? Could you get money to take that course that you want to take?

Like, what are all the things that you could get besides money? Because obviously money is the best, but you need a plan B also. Other things have value. Other things have value, but also I do want to say like money is the most valuable and that if you sunk cost fallacy is real. And so if you are at a job where you keep improving, keep taking on more work and they're just not able to give you that increase in salary, that is a, you don't owe them anything. Walk away. Yeah. And I just think like I always, I've probably overused the word value.

But when I'm talking to anybody who wants to make more money and especially they're asking for a raise, it's like, show by your valuable. Like, what are you break? Like, we want to hear why you're worth more. 100%. That's it. That's the bottom line. No, present it the right way.

Absolutely. I'm like, could we just get bamboos? 100%. I want to be begging somebody to give them the money by the end of the conversation. Like, pull the veil over my eyes. Like, I'm ready. Like, let's go. go, my purse is out, like I'm so down, you know? So yeah, that's really big. But I think you,

and also talk to your friends about it. Like, I guarantee all of your friends are going through the same thing. So we also just need to open up the money conversation more socially because you'll learn so much from your friends about like how it is for them too. Okay. So make more money. And then. But make more money sounds so, I mean, I wrote that in the book that it's like, it sounds like, I was like record scratch freeze frame. Like, wow, I can't believe this is me. I'm a financial expert telling you to make more money. Like, how dumb do I sound? I get it. Like, it's way harder than it seems. But I also think that it is. Why does it seem so easy to cut back and why does making more money feel so hard? They're actually the same amount of hard. Like, so stop putting it.

Yeah, choose your hard. And stop putting it on such a pedestal. Making more money. Money is abundant. Money is out there for you. If you have value, then you will, and you work hard, then you're going to be able to find a place where you are paid what you're worth. I really do believe that. You have to. I mean, that is the answer. We were talking before we recorded on this financial nihilism and just this system is rigged against me, so why even we try? And you can use that mindset with anything. You can use it with dating. You can use it with weight loss. That mindset doesn't help you at all. So can we just talk about that a little bit about the system being rigged and how much debt the average person actually does have? And maybe like how do we shift that?

How do we fight against that? Yeah, I love that. So just some statistics. the cost of living from 2000 to 2024 has gone up 67%. But wages have only increased 7%. I think about this all the time. It's so hard to get by. How are people getting by? I think about the rent here in New York. Who's living here?

Who can afford to live? I get so upset about this. Everyone should be able to make a living no matter what they're doing in this country. I mean, we obviously have to run for Congress. That's our next step. Pam Bondi, who? But I think it's important to tell people that. I think people are like, well, other people could afford something 15 years ago.

It's like, yeah, because the cost of living was way lower. And I mean, to think about that increase, it should make people feel better, at least, about where they're at. Because, like, it is truly stacked against you. Minimum wage even. I'm just like, I'm sick. If you work at McDonald's, you should be able to live. You should be able to go to the doctor. The doctor.

Like, God forbid. This is an America problem, by the way. 100%. But we live here, and a lot of people don't have the luxury to move. vote and research, but while we're here, what can we do? Yeah. I mean, the system is so messed up. Obviously, inflation has increased so much. Wages have stayed basically the same. Student loans are crazy. We're priced out of the housing market. There's also, when we were younger, when our parents were younger, they would see maybe like 500 ads a day maximum, which seems like a lot even. And now we're

seeing at least 5,000 ads. So you have less money, but you have, you have. more pressure to spend it on things, not to mention all the influencers that you're seeing who are selling you stuff. And then finance has also become really frictionless, which is a blessing because we're in the golden age of building wealth where you can do it all from your phone. Every person listening to this could open a brokerage account on their phone and start investing, which would be my dream. Please do that. I care more about that than you've been buying the book. Let's go. Do both. But also from your phone, you can use Apple Pay, like Appleby paying and be like drunk asleep on the couch and ordering a $3,000 purse on the real real.

It's true. Like the access to buying things is unbelievably fast and in our hands. And like some people are buying stuff because they're upset about the state of the world. Like it's, you get a rush. Like the COVID purchases, people just needed to have something show up on their door and feel something. Yeah. So it's just this toxic cycle.

If spending and things are your thing and you're broke and you're upset, you spend, you spend money to come back. It's all intertwined. 100% I have a friend who is one of my best friends. Think out that I'm Mrs. Dow Jones. This is one of my best friends since college. Like love her to death. But she has maxed out every single buy now pay later company, which obviously is like the bane of my existence. I'm really working with her on hit. Trust me. I'm on the case guys. But like when I go to her apartment, it's like she has every new road drop. She has the vibration plate. She has the like red light mask.

She has like all of the shit that you're seeing on TikTok. Like she has bought it and she's bought it like six times over. So I want to. to talk about this a lot. You open the book talking about somebody who was struggling financially, but she's in this, like, designer outfit. And I ended up on spring trends TikTok the other day. And I'm scrolling. And it's like all the things to buy for spring. And it's all these things that I threw out 15 years ago. So it's lace shorts. It's balloon pants. It's wedge sandals. It's all these things. It's barrel neck jackets. And everything is just like a tiny bit different than the current styles. But you're like, well, am I going to look like everybody else this summer without this stuff? No.

And I think you just get in this loop of like all these trends and all these things I have to have the vibration plates. And you're just like, I have to have these things right now and it's in your face so much. And so I really like want to validate. I think we all do like how hard that is to have thousands of influences in your face every single day being like this is what you need now to be that to be valuable to society to be as cool as your friends. It's really hard even for me to like be like even if I have this money, I shouldn't spend it on this shit. So consumerism. It's like killing us. Yes.

So let's talk about combating, just like glamorizing this overspending and mass consumption. Well, I think first of all, what I want to say is like I think that there's this idea that to be good with money, you are not allowed to have any fun. Like that was something that really oppressed me, I think, before I started my financial journey was that I didn't want to do it because it felt like my life was going to be over. And that like, I was never going to be allowed to have another match again. The gel manicures were over. It was like, okay, like, you know, the curtains going down on like the good times. and now I've got to like clean my, we've got to launder my paper towels. Like that's my new vibe. And so what's really important to know is like, and I create this in the future rich person's

spending plan that's laid out in the book is that you still get to have fun. You still get to spend your money. Like it's, you don't have to. And that's why I was saying you only need to get like four things right. In that system, it doesn't say that you are never allowed to enjoy yourself again. But I think that what's really important is to figure out, A, what you actually, value. It sort of starts there. What do you actually value? And then also, what are your traps? What is emotional regulation versus what is something that you're really getting an ROI from? So like, do you really love having plants in your apartment? Do you really love like a great mattress? Like you want to save for an amazing. That's like, I think such a good investment, a good mattress. Or like, you know, you love

travel or something like that. But I'm sorry. Like I don't think that anyone if they were actually thinking critically would say the TikTok shop was like something that they really valued. I really had like such a bad shopping addiction. My friends would come over and be like every closet is filled to the brim. And now I'm trying to like unwind that and sell stuff and give stuff to charity and like give it to people who need it because like it doesn't bring any extra joy to my life having that 15th pair of jeans. It's actually stressful.

Like to come home and see so much stuff. It's currently very stressful. And imagine if you were in debt because of it. If you didn't have the money, Raina, it would have been an intervention. We'd have had a real discussion. And I think, you know, I'm not having kids, so I have a little extra money. And Ashley and I work super hard and I want to spend the money that I make. But it doesn't bring me extra joy buying my 300th T-shirt.

And I had to really say to myself, like, what is, where are you wearing this? Who is this for? What is this for? A hundred percent. But it's hard. You're like, but I want it. I like it. I have to have it.

So I do think it's important. For me, I'm a person. Coffee brings me joy. I don't, even in my brokest of times, like I want to go get a lot cheaper back then. But don't get me start on latte prices today. So crazy. Why is it $10? I know. But I just, those things I think matter.

Like, you don't have to give them up. No. Some things you do. Well, deprivation never lasts long term. Like, we've all done a diet. And, you know, two days in, it's been great. And then the third day, it's actually I'm eating worse than before the diet. And so the same thing goes with finances.

You need to find a balance. And what the most important thing is to figure out how to have action money. And so action money is basically. what are you making minus what do you have to spend to live and then what's left over is your action money and that's what we put to work to make you become a future rich person and I say this in the book where I'm like I will be your financial dominatrix like you I think something that's so annoying with it is whenever anything is vague and the thing about finances is that it's actually not that complicated and there's not it's not so creative the path that we all have to take to

get rich it's actually really straightforward it's save your emergency fund, pay off your high industry debt, max out your tax advantage to accounts. And then after that, maybe you want to invest in a brokerage. And you know, you can then from there, if you want to put like 5% into something fun, oh, I want to invest in crypto or get a bag or whatever the things are. But like, it's very simple to grow up. It doesn't have to be so complicated. But in order to get yourself mentally in a place to even do that, you need to figure out what is driving me to not have the action money. And part of it might be, okay, the disson. illusion of the American dream. I'm just not making enough. The cost of living is so high. And we'll

talk about that too. But then also part of it might be actual psychological sort of issues that you need to unwind, like for you at least. And yeah, putting on my therapist hat. You can't see it's a fedora if you're watching on YouTube. But, you know, like I always say rewind your childhood. Like your money behaviors are set by the time you're seven years old. So did you see your parents using money to celebrate things or was it like this, were they compulsive with their spending or like, you know, like what were, how can we track this habit back to the root? And I actually did, I went on, I called her daddy and we did this and we tracked Alex Cooper's spending back to like her dad losing her job, his job, not her job. And she was in like a wealthy neighborhood. And so she had to

rely on her friends always for money. And it was like sort of embarrassing. And then she did the same thing with guys in her early 20s. And then now, obviously, she's like the most into financial independence. And it's like, okay, it's a reaction to that. So it all drives back to something, you know? For sure. And then what about unfollowing? I mean, do you recommend?

Oh, my God, yes. Like, give us some, like, today I am spending too much. Yes. And it's too easy. And like, what is something I can do today to stop? So like I was talking about frictionless finance. Like that that's really a huge issue. And so you have to understand like the source.

smartest minds at the biggest corporations are besides like any sort of childhood trauma you're bringing to the table girl like there's also some really smart people and probably a bunch of like AI bots trying to get you to spend money. Yeah you look at a shoe on the on a website then you go over to New York Times and you're seeing an ad for the same shoe and it's following you around and you know by the end of the day you bought the shoe. Yeah. So that is pernicious. And so with frictionless with frictionless spending being sort of the enemy, I think the key is to add friction back. And so, So whether that means removing Apple Pay. That's smart.

Yeah, unsubscribing in newsletters. Unfollowing. I mute a lot of influencers. Like straight up. Yeah, it's savage. I'll mute that. It'll train your algorithm. Once you start scrolling through that step,

it's just more, more, more, more of it. The spring trends. Like, I'm sorry, if you like one video about it. You're done. You're in hell. You're literally like the next, all that you're getting are barrel jeans to the point where you feel like you cannot get out of bed in the morning tomorrow.

if you do not have barrel jeans. They are in our head, girl. I think it's good to recognize that. And if you are like, this stops today, or I'm going to try, I'm going to try my best, look at it in a more negative light. Look at a bit of like you're not going to get me. You know, I think like, you're not going to, I'm not falling for this anymore. You know, if you're really like, I need to stop.

Like recognize that this is what consumerism is doing to take advantage of you and take your money. Like I don't want to sound so doomsday. But it's like a mindset shift. of like, I'm not going to fall for this anymore and I don't need that. And my closet is fine and I look great and I could do something else

to look good or feel good than the jeans, the 10th pair of jeans. The 10th pair of jeans. And if you avoid it, a friend of mine said all I do if I want to buy something is I just, I give myself 48 hours. That's what I do you want it

at the end of the 48 hours. I say wait three days before you pay. Wait three days. That's the wait three days before you pay method. I think it's really smart. It literally changes everything because you won't want it.

It takes the fervor out. Yes. But it takes it out of your algorithm too. So like you say like, by the end of the day, like the internet knows to keep serving you that ad for 24 hours. If you stop looking at it, it'll come out of your algorithm too. And I never want anything after 72 hours. I just don't.

Yeah, but also, same. But also knowing your why makes it easier to know why not. And I don't think that any of us have much clarity or most of us are never given clarity on our financial goals. But I will give you that clarity in this book of what your financial goals should be to a certain level. So it's like your first financial goal is saving your emergency fund. And it's very clear in the book, and I can say it here, why emergency fund is so important.

It's like, you know, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Like it gets you out of a bad relationship. It gets you out of toxic jobs. It protects you if like your car gets hit or you have a dental emergency or just all the shit that when life is lifeing, you need a little bit of money put aside because you can't rely on credit cards to pay for that because then you're just paying a high interest rate. So you need to put your own mask on first and get your emergency phone going. And so you have to also sort of brainwash yourself to the other side. Like we do, we are so brainwashed automatically of consumerism, but brainwash yourself with good financial content too.

Like, listen to the audio book. You guys have great episodes about money. Listen to those. Like try and empower yourself. Like, it's almost like when you're making a salad dressing, like you need to like balance out the ratios. Like you need to balance out the content that you're getting and make sure that you're like teaching yourself and you are working towards a bigger goal because otherwise you're aspiring towards being fake rich, which is a form of.

financial nihilism. Like having 10 pairs of jeans is you basically saying I'm giving up on the system and I can't get rich so I might as well just spend on my energy trying to look rich even though it's not helping me build wealth because the game is so rigged that I might as well not even try playing it. I love what you're saying about your algorithm because you know we all have had these moments where TikTok is serving you something. You're like this is what's going on right now And it's not. It's just what's happening in your personal world where you're like, I have to have this thing. Or this is the story everyone's talking about. Everyone feels this way. And it's not true. It's just like of all the billions of videos, those are the ones that are being served to you.

So if you just go to you, go to Tori Dunlap, go to Ramee, like that's what you start serving to yourself. Your mindset will shift that like this is what matters. And I think it seeps in even subconsciously, like the advice and the language and the information. 100% I think that's such a good idea Yeah just today like unfollowed influencer that's trying to sell you something and follow someone that's giving financial advice I really had to stop I also think what's really important to is like I hate the I talk about this in the book as well But like the content online that positions it as like cute or glamorizing the yeah glamorizing being bad with money Yeah Like the girl who's like watch me play a prank on my husband and it's like I paid the mortgage and it's like wait

what the you're not supposed to laugh I hate that they're crazy you guys stop I don't have like so many views or like Of course it will

Well you posted real It was this girl And she's like me with whatever Left in my bank account And then she's on all these trips and stuff And like it's funny The woman that you open the book with What she had something from the row

I don't have anything from the row Like I make plenty of money But it's just like I'm like I can't believe what people are spending She looked so rich. But there's also a huge article in the New York Times. Like this is really an issue. Like with there's an article in the New York Times about these influencers who have hundreds of thousands of followers who teach people how.

It's called can you fake being rich? And the whole article is about influencers who teach you how to fake rich. And it is all from financial nihilism, which I coined this term in the book called learned financial helplessness. Which is like when you think that everything is just so fucked against you that you don't even try. But like these influencers. Like, you're watching, first of all, the people that are telling you, like, buy these things, they're getting stuff from brands for free. They're getting sent all of this stuff for free. They're buying it and just returning it.

These are loans from stylists. Like, all these people that you're watching and you're like, I want to be like that. They don't have this shit either. It was gifted to them or borrowed. Some people have it, I guess. Some people do. Sure. But, like, the percentage of people that actually have that are so small and you're being sold stuff with affiliate links.

You're getting got. By those people. Okay. So I asked this earlier, do you want to hear what you have to say? just for the state of the world. I mean, how much debt does the average person have? Gen Z, the average is 34K. So that's like a ton of debt.

Personal debt, not student loans. Outside of student loans and then student loans a whole other thing. So that's credit card debt. Yeah. Okay. That would be insurmountable for me to have climbed out of in my 20s. And then what about millennials?

I mean, I guess just because you're younger, you're in your 20s, it's like when you have more debt. Yeah. Moninals have a bit less, but I think that like, regardless, people are spending. any outside of their means, but it's important to recognize that, like, it's not even always their, like, we villainize so much, though, like, the mom putting groceries for her family on a credit card that she can't afford. And it's like, no, that's like a systemic issue.

Yes, that's not, yeah, but it's like, there's also when you're, when you cross the threshold, and this is the issue is that then you can start looking at debt in a different way. Like, rich people have lots of debt and people just call it leverage. So it's also like, you know, how it's seen. But yeah, 34K is a ton of debt. But in the same way, like there's so many ways to pay off debt. And I think it's so shameful. People feel so much shame about having debt.

But it's sort of the same thing as we were saying with the algorithm and all this stuff. Like the smartest people, the biggest companies are out there trying to get you. I'm not fighting. I'm just moving my chair. Even if you were. I mean, we would talk about you after this. Okay, okay. It's cool.

No. And we'd talk about it on the mic as well. That's crazy. She did a little too comfortable. She did a lot of farts. Yeah. Sort of. Maybe she's thrown in the steeple.

It's like, let it out. Sort of a power move. The hot girls are farting. Yeah. Hot girls are fron. I'm not doing a during podcast, but you guys go ahead. Yeah. Let's clip that, by the way.

That's the most important part. So yeah, so the same thing was with the algorithm that it's pushing you into that. It's like, you know, the credit card companies are pushing you into that too. And they make the way that banks work and credit card companies work is off of your negligence. So they are profitable and successful because you are not paying it back. But the most important thing with debt, because I have in the book, I call it The Bachelor at Payoff Method. It is the cheapest, fastest way to pay off your debt. So this is all outlined in the book. All outlined in the book. And you also get in the book. I've included all of these amazing guides, too, that you get access to with it. So you get my free debt payoff planner, too, that has helped 10,000 people get out of debt. Amazing. And it all comes with the book. And you'll have the resources. for life. Okay. But the same way on The Bachelorette where, you know, there's a bunch of men in the house. You might have a bunch of different debts in your life, you know, different credit cards, a car loan, student loans, whatever. And so you want to give them all a little bit of interest because you're a nice

host. You're the Bachelorette. You're going to say hi to everyone. But you're going to give the special impression rows to one debt. Okay. To or to one guy. And that's the one that you're going to focus any extra money towards. So you're not going to put, you're not, a lot of people start to pay off debt without a strategy, but you have to be strategic when you pay off debt, because that's how you're going to pay it off the fastest and with the least amount of money. So you focus on the debt that is the highest. That's your first impression rose. That's what you're giving any extra money to, paying the minimum on everything else. And then once you get the ick from that, okay, you pay it off, send it away. Then you put whatever money you're putting towards that into the second highest debt

and focus on that one. And then, you know, until that is paid off while paying. the minimum on everything else and then so on and so on until you have nothing. But then there's also, I talk about all the other ways that you can pay off your debt too. You can do a zero percent balance card. You could do a debt consolidation plan. Like there are a lot of options. The biggest thing is just to make sure that you understand the reason that you were getting into debt, that you figure that out. Because otherwise, you know, the bottle's going to keep leaking. So most of money stuff just comes down to psychology. I mean, a lot of it comes down to just earning more and like making sure that you're making enough money because like we said the systems fuck things are expensive but like

it's also a lot about just making sure that you are working on the actual behaviors well the book is really just a wealth of information we really encourage people to buy it because there are so many just approachable tips in it for how to do this and how to make your life a little more livable financially and you've done a great job and it's just a fun great read so congratulations it's nice to be around such rich queens but who have like just really built themselves up like you are and inspiration to all of us. Well, thank you. Okay.

Final question, final thoughts. You talk a lot about how to think like a future rich person or a rich bitch, whatever. Boss babe. So what is that? We're millennials, so it's hard for me. What does that encompass? Like, how do we embrace that? The best way to embrace being a future rich person is not hiding from the truth that, yes,

we're in a new time of building wealth that is very different from our parents' generation. and there's a lot of systemic hindrances to that, but doing it anyways, because the best form of protest is to open that brokerage, to take that first step, despite the fact that maybe you do feel overwhelmed by everything that's stacked against you, you still have to do it anyways.

And that's like the core of everything is just getting over that hump and recognizing that there are still opportunities. And then, you know, of course, it's automation. It's having the right accounts and making sure that you have action money and making sure that you're not wasting your financial energy on stupid tasks.

Like, if you're going to put energy towards your finances, make sure that it is on high value things that you are actually going to get an ROI from. And I'll tell you what they are. Read the book. Yeah, invest in yourself. If you were doing any of this,

if you're reading any of these books, obviously your book first, you're a step up from the average person. My gosh. I always say that. You know, like, if you were taking the time to consume this content, and really try to learn, you are one of the ones that is going to make it.

Like, not everybody can make it. People are going to have to do these jobs and not make money and be poor and all these things. But if you're the person that's like, I, this changes now, then it will. You're in like a different class if you care and you're taking initiative. Yeah. And you can change your own life. There's still opportunity to do that. And I will also say that finance, the reason I'm so passionate about my book and why I wanted to write it is because finance books,

changed my life. Like I really do think that they are the best way to become financially literate. And you can listen to them. Like this is on Audible too or wherever you get your audio books, like listen while you're on a walk, whatever. But you have to invest in your human capital because that is what is going to bring you so much wealth in the future. And no one teaches you this. So you have to just take it upon yourself to learn. Yes, girl. Well, thank you for teaching us and other people how to learn. And you guys buy her book. It is really fantastic. It's so, well-written and follow you. Tell everybody where they can find you. Yeah. So I host financial tea podcast where you guys have to come on. I literally don't have you on. We want to talk about like

the tea. Like we didn't get to that today. We want to talk about like just talk shit about like like rich people like select like all this stuff. You talk about a lot in your content. I have so much about no I we could go all. I come back for a different episode or come on my show and we could talk about whatever you want. But so I host financial tea. I'm on Mrs. Dow Jones. I have a newsletter and most importantly my book, which if you're interested in improving your financial literacy, grab it or listen to it. But I think that it will be the first finance book that you ever finish. Oh, yeah.

It's actually like fun. Like if you liked like the click or A list or you know all those books from like the when you're growing up in like the 2000s. That's who this is written for. I love that. Okay. And it is on sale May 12th. May 12.

Everywhere. Yes. And you get so many freebies with it too. Okay. I love that. So we'll link all that for you guys. Okay. Amazing.

Get that. And you guys can find us at Girls Gotta Eat.com. Girls Got to Eat Podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is rana.org. Raina Greenberg.com for her tour tickets. Subscribe on YouTube.

Watch on Spotify. Share this episode with a friend. Share this. Share this. If you share any episode. Yeah. Share this with your broke friends. Yeah.

I wish I would have had this back then. And we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye.